HomeMy WebLinkAbout1996 12-03MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL
AGENDA
TUESDAY, DECEMBER 3, 1996 - 7:30 P.M.
CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS
MINUTES OF PREVIOUS MEETING HELD NOVEMBER 19, 1996:
(APPROVED)
MINUTES OF SPECIAL MEETING HELD NOVEMBER 26, 1996:
(APPROVED)
TABLED NOVEMBER 19, 1996: REQUEST FOR ANNEXATION AND ZONING
C-G AND I-L BY DOUG TAMURA AND ARTHUR BERRY: (APPROVED
FINDINGS; CITY ATTORNEY TO PREPARE ORDINNACE)
2. TABLED NOVEMBER 19, 1996: REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT
FOR A COMMERCIAL PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT BY DOUG
TAMURA AND ARTHUR BERRY: (TABLED UNTIL DECEMBER 17, 1996)
3. REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR AN OFFICE/BASEMENT
APARTMENT USE BY DENNIS ~ JANET BUTTERFIELD: (APPROVED)
4. FINAL PLAT: REQUEST FOR A FINAL PLAT FOR SPORTSMAN POINTE N0.6
SUBDIVISION BY GEM PARK II PARTNERSHIP: (APPROVED WITH
CONDITIONS)
5. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A VARIANCE FOR CARRIE OFFICE
BUILDING BY JIM CARRIE: (CITY ATTORNEY TO PREPARE
FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW)
6. NON-DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT FOR THE LAKE AT CHERRY LANE
SUBDIVISION NO. 4: (APPROVE SUBJECT TO CITY ATTORNEY
REVIEW)
7. REQUEST FOR A BUILDING PERMIT IN ASHFORD GREENS SUBDIVISION FOR
A MODEL HOME: (APPROVE SUBJECT TO WORKING WITH STAFF)
8. REQUEST FOR A TEMPORARY OFFICE BUILDING FOR THE LDS CHURCH:
(APRPOVED FOR ONE YEAR BEt;INNING JANUARY 1, 1997)
9. DISCUSSION OF LANDSCAPE BERM FOR MORNING GLORY NO. 2:
(STAFF TO WORK OUT DETAILS)
10. WATER/SEWER/TRASH DELINQUENCIES: (APPROVED)
11. APPROVE BILLS: (APPROVED)
12. DEPARTMENT REPORTS:
A. GARY SMITH, CITY ENGINEER:
1. TULLY PA~ ENGINEERING AGREEMENT: (ROVED)
2. ASHFORD REENS LIFT STATION ENGINEE G AGREEMENT:
(APPROVED)
3. LATE-COMER COST ALLOWANCES:
B. SHARI STILES, PLANNING & ZONING ADMINISTRATOR:
1. FARMINGTON ESTATES NO. 2 VACATION: (SEND LETTER TO ACHD)
2. DECEMBER 16, 1996 - 10:00 TO 11:30 A.M. MEETING WITH ADA
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS:
3. JAY AMYX PROPERTY: (SEND LETTER)
C. MAYOR CORRIE:
1. HISTORICAL PRESERVATION SOCIETY:
2. IDA-ORE:
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL DECEMBER 3, 1996
The regular meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order by Mayor Robert D.
Corrie at 7:30 P.M.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Walt Morrow, Ron Tolsma, Charlie Rountree, Glenn Bentley:
OTHERS PRESENT: Will Berg, Wayne Crookston, Gary Smith, Shari Stiles, Doug
Campbell, Boy Scout Troop #320, Tim Taylor, Jerry Wolfe, David Turnbull, Brent Balesten,
Russ Hunnemiller, Greg Johnson, Chief Gordon:
MINUTES OF PREVIOUS MEETING HELD NOVEMBER 19, 1996:
Corrie: I will entertain a motion for its acceptance.
Bentley: So moved
Tolsma: Second
Corrie: Motion made and seconded that we accept the minutes as written for the Tuesday,
November 19, 1996 any further discussion? All those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
MINUTES OF SPECIAL MEETING HELD NOVEMBER 26, 1996:
Corrie: Council, you have that in front of you, are there any corrections? If not I will
entertain a motion to accept.
Tolsma: So moved
Bentley: Second
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Tolsma, second by Mr. Bentley, to accept the special meeting
minutes of November 26, 1996, any further discussion? All those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
Corrie: With the Council's permission I would like to issue a proclamation at this time.
Hearing no objections this is the City of Meridian proclamation. WHEREAS, drivers and
pedestrians impaired by alcohol and other drugs account for nearly 17,500 national
highway deaths annually; and WHEREAS, motor vehicle crashes are the number one
cause of death for children, adolescents and young adults in the United States; and
WHEREAS, injury and property damage resulting from alcohol and drug-impaired driving
accidents cause physical, emotional, and economic hardship for hundreds of thousands
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 2
L.J
of adults and young people; and WHEREAS, health care costs resulting from motor
vehicle injuries cyst American society over $14 billion a year; and $35,000 in health care
costs alone can be saved for each serious injury prevented; and WHEREAS,
comprehensive community-based programs to further reduce and prevent impaired driving
tragedies through education are known to help the cause; and WHEREAS, if we take a
stand now, we can prevent impaired driving and save lives; NOW, THEREFORE, I, Robert
Cowie, Mayor of Meridian, do hereby proclaim December 1996 as Volunteer For Sobriety
Month in Meridian, and I urge all citizens to support the theme of volunteering for sobriety
and become a Designated Driver and to become aware of the problem of driving under the
influence and the importance of education, legislation and enforcement to help prevent
drunk and drugged driving. I further proclaim and designate Friday, December 13, 1996
as "Designated Driver Day" and encourage all citizens and bar owners to join Mothers
Against Drive Drivers and the Meridian Police Department, Meridian Citizens on Patrol
at the Meridian Police Department for a free sobriety testing and breath testing. Chief, I
have got these proclamations, do we have someone we would like to present it to?
Gordon: Yes sir we do, we have (inaudible)
Cowie: Before I go on, we have a full house here tonight. I don't know who everybody is,
can we have a representative from each one of the different groups that are here tonight
and kind of identify yourself for the Council and we want to welcome you to the Council
meeting tonight. We have some scouts I believe, what troop?
(Inaudible)
Cowie: Welcome, glad to have you here. I noticed a lot of high school seniors, is it a
certain class?
(Inaudible)
Cowie: Meridian High School Government, great, welcome. Are there any questions that
any of you have before we continue with the Council meeting? Anything we need to know
that we are supposed to do (inaudible). I hope this is a learning experience for you and we
will get started on our agenda.
ITEM #1: TABLED NOVEMBER 19, 1996: REQUEST FOR ANNEXATION AND ZONING
TO C-G AND I-L BY DOUG TAMURA AND ARTHUR BERRY:
Morrow: I believe as far as the issue here was a correct legal description was the reason
that it was tabled primarily. I need to ask Gary if that correct legal description has been
submitted and verified?
'.
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 3
Smith: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Morrow, City Council, we received that description this
afternoon and I did not have a chance, although it was submitted from Tealey's Land
Surveying and is stamped by a licensed land surveyor I did not have a chance to go
around the boundary and verify that it is the boundary that is being requested for
annexation and zoning. I guess I could just ask that it be, that you consider approval of
the request subject to us making a detailed review of the description. If there is a problem
with the description than we can get that corrected. We just need tp compare it with the
drawing that was submitted..
Morrow: That is our normal procedure is it not to have those legal descriptions even
though they are signed by a licensed engineer or surveyor that we do in house review of
those to make sure that the description matches the drawings that we have?
Smith: Yes that is correct and the reason we have asked for the, as you know the reason
we have asked for the description prepared by a licensed land surveyor is because of the
problems we have had in the past with the legal descriptions that were written by people
that did not have the expertise to write the descriptions. Typically when we have a
description that is written by a land surveyor and it is stamped and it contains his stamp
and signature that we haven't had problems with them. They are placing their seal on that
description and they have made the closure of the property, mathematical closure of the
property so that everything is as it should be.
Corrie: I guess I have one of the Counselor, is this new request for annexation and zoning
and conditional use permit, are the findings of fact and conclusions of law for both of
them?
Crookston: The only request for a change in the findings was on the annexation.
Corrie: Okay
Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I would move that we approve the and adopt the findings of fact and
conclusions of law.
Rountree: Second
Corrie: Motion made and seconded that we approve the findings of fact and conclusions
of law, any further discussion? Roll call vote
ROLL CALL VOTE: Morrow -Yea, Bentley -Yea, Rountree -Yea, Tolsma -Yea
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 4
Corrie: Is there a motion on the decision?
Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I would move that the City Council of the City of Meridian hereby
approves that the property should be annexed and zoned under the conditions set forth
in these findings of fact and conclusions of law and that if the applicant is not agreeable
with these findings of fact and conclusions and is not agreeable with entering into a
development agreement the property should not be annexed.
Rountree: Second
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Rountree on the decision as read, any
further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
Morrow: Mr. Mayor I would move that we instruct the City Attorney to prepare an
annexation ordinance.
Rountree: Second
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Rountree to have the Gity Attorney
prepare the ordinance, any further discussion? All those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
ITEM #2: TABLED NOVEMBER 19, 1996: REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE
PERMIT FOR A COMMERCIAL PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT BY DOUG TAMURA
AND ARTHUR BERRY:
Corrie: I believe this was tabled because we couldn't do that until the annexation. I guess
we can, can we, do we need the annexation back before this or do we table again or can
we do it on the basis of the annexation coming back or the ordinance excuse me.
Crookston: You need to table this until the property has been annexed pursgant to an
ordinance.
Morrow: So moved
Rountree: Second
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Rountree to table the request for a
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 5
conditional use permit until December 17 meeting, any further discussion? All those in
favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
Morrow: As a point of discussion Mayor although we didn't specifically address the legal
description I think that the adoption of findings of fact and conclusions would set up a
mechanism described by Mr. Smith so that the applicant needs to understand that
annexation will not occur until the verification of the legal description by our City staff.
Once that verification is there then it will press forward okay Doug, thank you.
ITEM #3: REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR AN OFFICE/BASEMENT
APARTMENT USE BY DENNIS AND JANET BUTTERFIELD:
Corrie: Is Dennis or Janet here? Do you want to give us a little background on this one
please.
Butterfield: The office at 1332 East First was recently converted from a residence to the
same tenant that was living there. He has his Farmers Insurance in the upper floor there.
In the basement we felt to use the space and we are planning on doing a one bedroom
apartment down there, just a small thing. It could be something my mom would use or our
kids or we might rent it out too. So as far as someone to go there we haven't figured that
out yet. It is a small thing but it looks like it is quite an effort trying to make something like
that happen.
Corrie: (Inaudible) Does the Council have any questions of Dennis?
Morrow: Mr. Mayor, if there are no other comments by the Council I would move that we
adopt the findings of fact and conclusions as prepared for us by P & Z.
Tolsma: Second
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Tolsma to approve the findings of fact
and conclusions of law that were approved and prepared by Planning and Zoning, any
discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote.
ROLL CALL VOTE: Morrow -Yea, Bentley -Yea, Rountree -Yea, Tolsma -Yea
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
Corrie: Entertain a motion for the decision.
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 6
Morrow: Mr. Mayor, the Meridian City Council approves the conditional use permit
requested by the applicant for the property described in the application with the conditions
set forth in the findings of fact and conclusions of law.
Rountree: Second
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Rountree on the decision and
recommendation as stated, any further discussion? All those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
ITEM #4: FINAL PLAT: REQUEST FOR A FINAL PLAT FOR SPORTSMAN POINTE NO.
6 SUBDIVISION BY GEM PARK II PARTNERSHIP:
Corrie: Is there a representative from Sportsman Pointe No. 6 here this evening?
(Inaudible)
Morrow: My questions would be have you read the staff conditions and are in agreement
with all of the staff conditions?
Taylor: I have not read them no.
Morrow: I guess my question would then be would you be more comfortable if this were
tabled until Mr. Johnson is here at the next meeting so that you have an opportunity to
read the staff conditions and be in agreement with those conditions?
Taylor: I am sure that I would be.
Rountree: Or possibly if he shows up later this evening.
Taylor: Would that be a possibility?
Morrow: From my perspective as a Councilman I don't have a problem with if he shows up
later this evening prior to adjournment and can address the issues. Staff, I guess
question?
Smith: Mr. Mayor and Council members, Councilman Morrow, I talked to Greg Johnson it
was either today or yesterday and he planned on being here and he did have an issue he
wanted to talk to the Council about concerning the subdivision and building permits. So
I expected him to be here.
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 7
Taylor: As did I so let me go give him a call.
Corrie: Council why don't we just delay this particular item number 4 until later this evening
when he comes in.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council one of our comments was also that we requested written
answers to our comments prior to this meeting that we have not received.
Morrow: So you have not received the written response either then?
Stiles: No
Morrow: And that is a normal procedure.
Corrie: Well I guess that would be up to Council to decide if you want to, since it wasn't
(inaudible) you can table it.
Morrow: Mr. Morrow, I guess from my perspective and in difference to yourself is that the
written requirements haven't be received or a response hadn't been received as per the
staffs request. So I think that obviously needs to be received and obviously Mr. Johnson
wants to discuss some issue on item 4 with us. So, from my perspective is that I would
move to table until the next meeting so that written response and discussion can both go
on. If Mr. Johnson were here I think we would do the courtesy in my mind of listening to the
discussion but because the written response is not done it would still call for a table until
that response to those conditions was given to the staff. So, that is how I feel.
Tolsma: Second
Corrie: Any further discussion from the Council?
Rountree: I assume that date certain is our next Meeting December 17?
Morrow: That would be correct Mr. Rountree.
Corrie: Any further discussion? Motion made to table the final plat for Sportsman Point
number 6 subdivision until December 17 to receive the written response that was
requested and also discussion by Greg Johnson, any further discussion? All those in
favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 8
ITEM #5: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A VARIANCE FOR CARRIE OFFICE
BUILDING BY JIM CARRIE:
Corrie: At this time I will open the public hearing and invite a representative from the Carrie
Office building, Jim Carrie if you are here to come forward.
Jerry Wolfe, 410 South Orchard, Boise, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Wolfe: Again we are here to request a variance on a rear yard set back on a piece of
property. If I could approach the (inaudible) I could probably better explain it with some
drawings. What we have here is a piece of property with Fairview Avenue here, this is a
duplication of this. Fairview Avenue here, Barbara Street here and then we have got a 100
foot irrigation easement that goes through the center of it. And then a rear yard setback
of 20 feet that goes at the rear which leaves us hardly any ground to build on. A normal
piece of ground would allow 10,000 to 12,000 square feet of office building there with all
of the parking. We have worked it out if we can use a portion of the rear yard setback to
put 6800 square foot building bads here with the required parking split situation portion of
it here then a portion of it off of Fairview. We have talked with the Highway Department
and they don't have a problem with us coming here and here. We have talked with the
irrigation department and they don't have a problem with the layout the way it is. So, the
only thing we have left to do is get the blessing of the variance there. The staff report, we
don't have any problem at all with the conditions of approval.
Corrie: Would the members of the Council like to see that a little closer, you guys didn't
get a chance to see what he was looking at too.
Wolfe: (Inaudible)
Corrie: Council, comments or questions?
Rountree: Mr. Mayor, you did indicate that you have read and concur and will meet all of
the conditions and comments provided by the staff memo dated November 29th, I just want
to reaffirm one issue with the crossing of Five Mile Creek with a bridge for pedestrians so
that parking space can be utilized by that facility.
Wolfe: Again I have read everything, there are some items that there is a bit of a conflict
with the Highway Department would like us to have a bridge across there. We would love
to have the bridge but I still need the approval of the ditch company. So there is still that
portion to be worked out. As there is a couple of other little comments the staff made that
were in the comment section. On the amount of parking and square footage I would like
to have the privilege of just working that out with the staff prior to our applying for a
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 9
building permit. We can meet all of the requirements there is no problem.
Corrie: I guess my question, what if you don't get the bridge, how do you get over there?
Wolfe: Walk around I guess. There is a proposal for a sidewalk that I don't know, we
hope to put a bridge in and working with the ditch company.
Rountree: In the event that doesn't happen how do you propose to meet your parking
requirements?
Wolfe: The parking requirements, there isn't a problem with the parking requirements.
Rountree: On the site?
Wolfe: Correct
Corrie: I guess Shari, do you have any comments?
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council I don't really have anything to add to what my written
comments are. I guess the main issue would be to make sure that well as my comment
states that they are to obtain the approval for the pedestrian walkway across Five Mile
Creek prior to getting a building permit. Ada County Highway District has indicated that
sidewalk is not possible at this time. I believe that is in their report, it couldn't be built at
the proper location at this time and it would basically involve a bridge over Five Mile Creek
anyway. I think the best alternative is to try to do some kind of pedestrian walkway over
Five Mile Creek if at all possible.
Wolfe: Again, we are asking for a variance for the setback, I think we can work at all these
others details and bugs.
Corrie: Any further questions of the Council? Thank you Mr. Wolfe, is there anyone else
from the public that would like to comment on this variance request. Hearing none,
Council comments? Hearing none I will close the public hearing.
Morrow: Mr. Mayor I would I move to instruct the City Attorney to prepare findings of fact
and conclusions.
Rountree: Second
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Rountree to instruct the City attorney to
draw up findings of fact and conclusions. Any further discussion, all those in favor?
•
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 10
Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
ITEM #6: NON-DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT FOR THE LAKE AT CHERRY LANE
SUBDIVISION 4:
Corrie: Counselor, do we have that?
Crookston: I haven't seen, I talked to Mr. Bradbury's office today and told him what small
change I wanted but I have not seen it.
(Inaudible)
Rountree: If the students are wondering what is going on we are waiting for advice from
our attorney on whether or not this agreement is to the benefit of the City.
(Inaudible)
Crookston: Mr. Mayor, this is changed somewhat but I don't believe it addresses the
problem I addressed to Mr. Bradbury's secretary this morning. It does say that at such time
as developer has completed the installation of all improvements as required by the City
and other governmental entities with jurisdiction thereof this agreement shall terminate and
City shall execute and deliver to developer for recredation an appropriate document
releasing the said temporary restrain on the conveyance of the lots of said subdivision and
acknowledging that this agreement shall have no further force and effect. What I had
suggested to Mr. Bradbury's secretary is there would be something there that the
developer would pay for the cost of recording that release. That is not addressed, it
doesn't say who does. In the original document it said that the City would prepare the
release and record it .
Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I would move that the Council approve the non-development
agreement for the Lake at Cheny Lane Subdivision NO. 4 subject to City Attorney
Crookstons and Steven Bradbury, counselor for Cherry Lane Subdivision concluding a
successful agreement. Upon that agreement being crafted that I would authorize the Mayor
to sign and the City Clerk to attest.
Rountree: Second
Corrie: The motion is made by Mr Morrow, second by Mr. Rountree to approve the non-
development agreement subject to the two attorneys coming into agreement with the
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 11
wording and I visit (inaudible) Any further discussion? All those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
Corrie: Wayne would you please note that is a December rather than November the
dating on it. This blank by (inaudible)
ITEM #7: REQUEST FOR A BUILDING PERMIT IN ASHFORD GREENS SUBDIVISION
FOR A MODEL HOME:
Corrie: Mr. Turnbull, are you here?
Turnbull: Mr. Mayor, members of the Council we submitted a letter, well we started talking
to Shari two weeks ago, she asked that I submit a letter detailing our request. I talked to
Shari about it, according to our conversation she had no problem but she wanted to bring
it before Council for confirmation. Essentially it is typical of what is done throughout the
County and other municipalities. We don't have a recorded plat as of yet, still basically is
I guess would be considered our 100 acre farm. We would like one building permit to be
able to start construction on a home just tike any other I suppose farmer or land owner
would be allowed to so we can get going on that. We have had the plat into the City for
some time now but it still hasn't come out of the City. So we would like to get going on one
building permit. I would like to entertain any questions that the Mayor or members of the
Council have.
Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I noticed that, is this going to serve as a sales office for, I understand
in the letter it talks about the parade of homes, but does it also serve as a sales and
management office for the development of the subdivision?
Turnbull: It could Mr. Morrow, it hasn't been determined at that time if I had to submit a
separate request for that I would do so at the appropriate time. Right now I am just asking
for a building permit for a single family residence. If I could answer, if that answer could
be answered and confirmed by the Council at this meeting then fine if I need to come back
with a separate request as for a permanent sales office then I would be willing to do that
as well.
Morrow: Thank you
Corrie: You don't have sewer service to this yet, right?
Turnbull: The sewer is in, the lift station, I see on the agenda tonight that the City is
constructing is not there yet. I spoke with Shari about that, the idea that having a parcel
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 12
•
large enough to accept a septic system if need be we own several acres surrounding that
parcel where we intend to build if we ever had to put a septic system in, but it has been
confirmed by the former Mayor your predecessor that the sewer service would be provided
in conjunction with our development. We have all the sewer lines in, all the water lines in,
the paving was finished yesterday so all of the curb, gutter and sidewalk was installed. I
have had some conversation, my staff members have had some conversations with some
of Gary's assistants about actual occupancy won't be occurring in that subdivision until the
earliest April or May of 1997 and they felt like that the sewer lift station would be on board
at that time.
Corrie: Any further questions?
Rountree: Just to clarify in my mind, that you are just talking about a parade of homes, no
occupancy?
Turnbull: Correct, no permanent occupancy for a residence at this time, other than the
ability to show it as you normally would in a parade of homes.
Corrie: Any further questions of Mr. Turnbull? Thank you, questions of staff?
Morrow: I do Mr. Mayor, could I have your comments Gary with respect to this project in
terms of the lift station and all of the ramifications of doing the building permit out of
sequence. The final plat has not been signed off as of yet, is that correct?
Smith: Right, that is correct. The plans for Ashford Greens Subdivision several years ago
was for the City of Meridian to be involved in the construction of a lift station that would
serve not only Ashford Greens but also the other subdivisions to the south and east of
Ashford Greens that are presently being served by a lift station. The developer Brighton
Corporation was going to be involved in constructing a force main from a lift station to a
point of discharge to our existing gravity line on Ustick Road in Ustick Road. To that end
I entered, or I requested a proposal from Hubble Engineers to design the lift station which
i have received. That is one item that is on Department Reports tonight. As I understand
it the plat wilt contain a sanitary restriction because sewer service it not available until the
lift station and pressure main is constructed. I don't have any knowledge of what the single
building permit for a piece of ground what the rules are for that. If it is a developed or not
developed piece of ground. So I can't comment on that. Does that answer your question?
Morrow: Well it partially answers my question. I guess from my perspective the major issue
here is that if I am understanding you, you are talking about on the plat there will be a
condition, does this condition preclude lot sales from developer to builders?
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 13
Smith: Yes, as I understand it that is correct, the sanitary restriction would preclude the
sale or at least, I don't know about the sale of a lot but it doesn't have sanitary service so
they couldn't occupy it.
Morrow: Well I guess my question here is that somehow, I don't have a problem with
something being under construction while the lift station is being done. But it seems to me
that there has to be a mechanism in place that prohibits any retail sales or any occupancy
and so that the whole the real estate community, the building community and the buying
public understand that there isn't going to be any occupancy until of anything until the
sewer system is up and one line. If that means it is next June then so be it. Is that how this
(inaudible)
Smith: Councilman Morrow, there is a stamp that Central District health affixes to the front
of the plat that says sanitary restrictions are in place. I don't remember the language of the
stamp but and maybe Mr. Turnbull can speak to that. But I think that it notifies the
prospective owners of a lot of what the conditions that exist on that lot. I have read it once
I just can't remember the verbiage, but it does alert the person buying the lot owning the
lot, building on the lot that I don't believe there is occupancy allowed until that restriction
is removed. Until the lift station is constructed and operational that restriction would not
be removed by Central District Health and it takes their action to remove it (End of Tape)
Morrow: (Inaudible) sewers are used and blocked off into a manhole and then on a weekly
or a bi weekly basis or whatever it takes a septic pump truck shows up and pumps out the
manhole. I want to make it specifically clear that if we start construction that doesn't
happen under any circumstances. Whatever method it takes to get to that and obviously
Mr. Turnbull and those of us here understand that, but that doesn't mean that the rest of
the building community and or the buying public understand. So whatever method we use
I want to make sure that everybody has a fair chance of understanding that there is no
occupancy or any circumstances until that sewer line is operational. You can do that.
Smith: Yes we can.
Turnbull: Mr. Mayor and Mr. Morrow the Central District Health Department, sanitary
restriction was put in place only pending the receipt of the, lift station design not as actual
construction. They were willing to write that off as soon as they received the design and
have that in place. We have a similar circumstance that we had in Boise City where Boise
City was bringing sewer to a point of connection and we were to connect at a certain point.
They were unable to get their easements for a period of time. The design was in place,
DEQ and Central District Health signed off on it and in fact Boise City did for a short period
of time pump a manhole. It didn't pose any problems in fact I think that one of the
conversations that we had with one of Gary's staff members talked of that possibility.
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 14
Initially you are not going to have a great deal of occupancy in a subdivision and it is not
a major deal to pump the manhole on a periodic basis. Nobody expects it to be a
permanent solution. I guess we have been struggling for three years to get the lift station
issues resolved. It has been three years since we have started on this project. Finally
have it paved and still don't have the plat out and still don't have the lift station design from
the City yet. So I hope you can understand the situation we have been put in and we are
just trying to progress and make the best of the situation. I don't think any of those
solutions are out of the norm.
Corrie: Correct me if I am wrong Mr. Morrow but what I heard you say there will be no
pumping at all so what you are saying is that in Boise it could be done here. I guess what
we are saying to you or what Mr. Morrow is it won't happen here.
Turnbull: Yes well it happened in Boise that is kind of part of the agreement that Eagle
made with the City of Boise with transporting waste until a permanent solution is found.
So it is not out of the norm, it may not be the ideal situation. But I don't think Gary expects
that is, that lift station should be pretty well contemporaneous with the need for occupancy.
Morrow: Well I think that from my perspective having been involved in these kinds of
situations is that it is not a very good situation and quite candidly in most cases it becomes
negative. So I think that, and I have been involved in those things (inaudible) for the most
part they haven't worked out very well. (Inaudible) part of the issue in Boise is they have
the capability to pump and we don't. Somebody has to do it, it is just the type of thing that
doesn't make for good planning and good government. I guess my point would is that we
are not going to do pumping and it puts the oness on the City of Meridian and upon you
to make sure that the lift station proceeds on schedule and. that everything is ready to go.
It puts us under some amount of pressure in terms of the City. I would prefer to see that
(inaudible) consumer paying the price.
Turnbull: Mr. Mayor and Councilman Morrow, I understand what you are saying, I guess
from my perspective all I am saying is we have been out this for a long time. When
Meridian City decided where they wanted the lift station located we dedicated an additional
30 feet to make room for it on our property. It was anticipated originally being on a
separate piece of property. I have got a letter from Mayor Kingsford that obviously
precedes this administration assuring us that the installation of that lift station would
coincide with our development. So here we are in a situation where we have expended I
don't even want to tell you how much money we have got laying in the dirt out there. We
would just like to be able to get on with some kind of a program so we don't miss another
building season and that is essentially what you do if you don't have a spring market. So
I would, I want the lift station there as bad as anybody and I don't want to create a bad
situation but I don't think that it would be. I think as we go along a Kittle farther now we can
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Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 15
work out all of those various situations. I guess all I am here for is to ask for a parade of
homes building permit and we can work out those other situations in a separate meeting,
that is fine with me.
Corrie: I think Mr. Turnbull that in the department reports you are going to find some
opposition from my seat about where the lift station is and what was agreed to because
from the comprehensive plan it is further north. So we will (inaudible)
Turnbull: I guess I will have to stay around for that one then.
Corrie: That is probably a good idea. Any further questions? .Thank you, any questions
from Council to staff?
Morrow: I guess in terms of the request is for a building permit for the Ashford Greens
subdivision for a model home and I don't have any objection to that building permit being
issued subject to those conditions being taken care of. So I would move that we instruct
the Building Department to issue the building permit upon satisfactory compliance with
Building Department procedures for one model home on Lot 4, Block 17 of Ashford Greens
No. 1 assuming for 1997 parade of homes house with no occupancy until the lift station is
in place.
Corrie: Is there a second?
Tolsma: Second
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow second by Mr. Tolsma
Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I have a question for discussion, I haven't run into any of this before.
Would it be a good idea to leave the water off (inaudible)
Morrow: (Inaudible)
Rountree: Point of discussion, I am wondering what vehicle we use to avoid occupancy
and if there is such a vehicle could we not also include that the site not be used as a sales
office and that the site not be sold until it connected to City services.
Morrow: Well I guess the issue in terms of, as long as you have a plat (inaudible) policy
issues and title issues in terms of (inaudible) model home for parade purposes in a sense
becomes a sales home because (inaudible) for a two weed period. It is reasonable to
expect that there are going to be personnel there for the prime purpose bf selling homes
and lots within the subdivision (inaudible)I. It appears to me that and from that time on at
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Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 16
least probably on a weekend basis (inaudible) so it really becomes practical to say sales
office (inaudible). I really don't have a problem with that (inaudible) what I have a problem
with is (inaudible)
Rountree: Back to my first question what vehicle do we have as a City by issuing a building
permit to preclude that? I guess that is a question for Counsel.
Crookston: I can't see an enforceable means to restrict anybody from being in the home.
Basically what you mean by occupancy is having anybody in there. The only way to do
that (inaudible)
Rountree: (Inaudible)
Crookston: You can have it so that there is no occupancy permit given but that doesn't
keep people out of there. You have to have an inspector go out and view it now and then
and see if anybody is occupying it. I think the question also becomes then what do you
mean by occupancy, do you mean someone living in it, sleeping there or do you mean just
being in the house?
Rountree: Sounds like a lawyer to me. What it would mean to me is somebody residing in
there as a domicile.
Crookston: I think that we could have a recorded restriction on it from anyone residing in
the home and then you could have a City inspector how out and check it first thing in the
morning or first thing after five o'clock. But I think in the mobile home in the parade of
homes you are going to have people in there until 10:00 o'clock at night 10:30 even. All
you can do is have language in an agreement that says that they can't do it. It is just like
anything, it is just like a speed limit sign on the freeway. It says 65 or some places 75,
you are not supposed to go 85 but unless there is a police officer there to stop you from
going 85 people go 85. The same type of situation.
Corrie: I guess resolving the sewer part of it (inaudible) but we are still going to run into
some problems there (inaudible)
Morrow: Well the issue is if the sewer system is not hooked up and doesn't function it
doesn't work. Gary?
Smith: Mr. Mayor and Council members I would like, I don't know exactly what this means
but I will read this health certificate that is on the front of the plat that Central District
Health has signed. It says sanitary restrictions as required by Idaho Code, Title 50,
Chapter 13 have not been satisfied and are enforced for the following lots. And I believe
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Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 17
it basically describes all of the lots in the subdivision. It goes on to say that no owner shall
construct any building, dwelling or shelter which necessitates the supplying of water or
sewage facilities for persons using such premises until sanitary restriction requirements
are satisfied and lifted. What I am wondering is if a building is constructed on this parcel
of ground it is not, is it my understanding then Wayne it is not constructed on a lot in the
subdivision because the subdivision is not recorded. It is constructed on this parcel of
ground that the subdivision is part of . The ownership for the lot of the ownership for the
home that is being constructed will stay with the developer. There are no facilities
available.
Smith: Should a septic tank be constructed as part of the home and it would be on its own
individual disposal system that it could be connected to water since water is available and
it would function as a home not in a subdivision but on this large piece of ground. That
coincidentally has a paved street in front of it. That coincidentally has water being supplied
to it. But it is not being served by public sewer. Then I guess the thing that I am trying to
get around is the obvious use of the sanitary facilities in the home because that is going
to happen. However, whatever kind of controls that you as a City Council try to place on
that it is going to happen. Someone is going to flush a toilet, someone is going to use the
sink. The facility is connected or would be connected to the sewer line in the street. It is
going to have to have water in it I would suspect, just for people that are viewing the home.
Someone is going turn, I don't know, I am just throwing out a possible solution to the use
of it. I suspect that we could still maintain or require no occupancy so that someone isn't
living there but if it was on its own sewage disposal system it could be utilized as a sales
office or a model home. But I don't know what Title 50, Chapter 13 says as far as sanitary
restrictions. Wayne would have to
Crookston: Title 50, Chapter 13 I believe is just the recording requirements. But to answer
your first question about whether or not a lot, "lot", if you got into court that refers to the
land. Whether there is a, let's say an 80 by 100 foot lot, I don't think they are referring to
that, I think their reference to lot means the land and I think that is how the court would
interpret it. As far as its up to the City I am quite certain as to whether they would allow
a temporary septic tank facility.
Smith: I think again that the septic tank facility would fall under Central District Health
Department and they are going to have to be involved in that. Typically they don't allow
that construction if there is a sewer available that is within economic feasibility for
connection by the home. But in this case it is a little peculiar, obviously, sewer is there it
is connected but it is not available to use. So it would be a temporary situation. But
Central District Health would have to be involved in approving of that because that is their
jurisdiction.
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 18
Rountree: I would have a substitute motion.
Turnbull: Mr. Mayor can I just say one thing, that goes back to what I said before. We have
sufficient ground around the property that should Central Sewer not be available at the
time needed we could install septic. We have more than adequate acreage around it to
qualify us under DEQ and Central District Health standards. But that would be a fall back
position although I wouldn't expect and hopefully that wouldn't be a necessary alternative.
It is just like going out and building my own personal house on my own personal farm.
Morrow: I guess though David the problem that based on what Gary is saying is that
Central District Health is that they won't view it as that. I think there needs to be some
confirmation from Central District Health that a temporary septic system if needed could
be in fact put in place. It is a unique circumstance. I appreciate your comparison but I don't
think the comparison applies here when the sewer system is in place or the distribution
system or reception system is in place. It is just that the lift station to make it fully
functional in fact is not. So I
Turnbull: I don't know how they could have it both ways saying sewer is not available but
sewer is available.
Morrow: (Inaudible)
Turnbull: I don't mean to take all of the Council's time tonight on this. I clearly think it is
something that can be worked out on a staff level and if not come back to Council level.
All I am asking for is a building permit on my farm and basically we all know what it is for.
Morrow: So what kind of crop are you growing this year?
Turnbull: I was thinking of beans, maybe mint.
Morrow: We have a motion
Corrie: We have a motion do you want to see the revision?
Rountree: I would offer a substitute motion.
Morrow: And it is?
Rountree: That we instruct staff to work with the developer on the issue of building permit
provided that the sanitary restriction is lifted that the owner records a document tp restrict
the building use as a residence, that the water meter be removed after construction of the
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Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 19
building is complete and we get approval from Central District Health if an alternative
septic system is allowable then the water could be turned back on.
Morrow: Was there, refresh. my memory Mr. Mayor, was there a second to my original
motion?
Corrie: There was.
Morrow: I will withdraw the motion.
Tolsma: I withdraw the second.
Corrie: Motion has been withdrawn and second withdrawn. Do you want to issue that as
a motion Mr. Rountree?
Rountree: I submit my substitute motion for consideration.
Corrie: Is there a second to the substitute motion?
Morrow: Second
Corrie: Discussion?
Turnbull: Can I just ask for a clarification Charlie, you said until sanitary sewer restrictions
are released. Now the sanitary sewer restrictions we are talking about here for this
subdivision as a whole, I am talking about for a farm. Obviously I am not going to get
sanitary restrictions for this subdivision as a whole lifted until Meridian City has the lift
station design completed and that is going to be, that could be 60 days I am not sure. If
that is the case then it does me absolutely, I can't do what we are proposing to do.
Rountree: I will take that under advisement.
Corrie: Discussion?
Morrow: I understand what David is saying but I don't think the motion specifically
prohibits, read it to me again Charlie?
Rountree: I do have a provision that the sanitary restriction is lifted from the plat but if we
make the provision that Central District Health approve it we have accomplished the same
thing. For that building but not for, I guess it would be a question for counselor, can we
issue a building permit on anon-subdivided piece of property and if it is subdivided then
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Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 20
•
the subdivision has this plat restriction. We can't just issue a building permit on a piece of
ground, it has to be subdivided in some manner. Is that right?
Crookston: That is correct.
Morrow: Well you can do it by meets and bounds or you can do it by lot and block.
Crookston: Well we have provided sewer for land that is outside the City limits when we
have had a request for it. They have to pay double the fees.
Rountree: But that is not asking for a building permit.
Crookston: The property is within the City of Meridian and building permits qre required.
Morrow: t think the deal is here is that we can do the building permit thing and (inaudible)
I think what can be accomplished is that the lifting of a deed or plat restriction by Central
District Health if it in fact occurs at the point of design acceptance of the lift station then
that takes away that qualification (inaudible). But in the motion it still addresses the issue
of at some point if there is going to be occupancy that either (inaudible) sanitary sewer or
(inaudible) central system (inaudible) Central District Health not us so that it seems to me
the motion covers all of those potentialities. So that the project gets built, doesn't get used
as a residence if Central District Health (inaudible) on a temporary basis (inaudible) than
it can be occupied as a single family residence and used (inaudible). If they don't approve
that then it doesn't have any water by virtue of the motion and doesn't get occupied
because it doesn't have (inaudible) so in either case the permit that Mr. Turnbull is asking
for is issued and the construction (inaudible) we have the protection in the one case if the
lift station is completed it is not even a point of discussion it is sold and occupied and one.
If it is not then Central District Health has the option of putting in a temporary septic system
or approving a temporary septic system in which (inaudible) Central District health decided
not to (inaudible) then we have the, it can't be sold, it can't be occupied and it doesn't have
either water or sewer service until it is. So that seems to me that satisfies all the conditions
or all the scenarios that (inaudible} and it allows (inaudible) bearing in mind that we are
5 months away from or 4 1/2 months away from completion (inaudible).
Corrie: Plus the fact that it cannot be a parade home until all of those features are met.
Morrow: Well it can't be a parade home.
Corrie: No it can't, like he said, you still have sewer, people using the toilets and waters.
Rountree: But if it has no water they can't.
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 21
Corrie: It has no water, that is what I am saying. So
Rountree: Their problem stays in the house.
Morrow: It is not unusual in those parade homes to have temporary toilets outside because
as a builder the last thing you want is a bunch of people walking through there and using
your toilets and what we do very candidly now that I think about it is shut the water off so
none of the stuff can be used as a method of trying to keep it (inaudible)
Corrie: So you want to read your motion again Mr. Rountree please?
Rountree: I am still not sure in Walt's discussion on this restricted sanitary restriction on
the plat. My existing motion includes that and I understand what Mr. Turnbull is saying.
(Inaudible) would in fact be a problem.
Morrow: So why don't you rephrase the motion (inaudible)
Rountree: You were telling me that you thought it was not an issue but I couldn't
understand why, but in effect the motion takes care of what appears to be the issues.
Morrow: In my mind it does but if you eliminate the reference to the sanitary restriction.
Rountree: I really don't know where we are in Robert's rules, I know I can substitute a
motion but I don't know if I an substitute an amended motion.
Morrow: (Inaudible)
Rountree: I will substitute, read my substituted motion, I move that we instruct the staff to
work with the developer on the issuance of a building permit provided that the owner
record a document to restrict the building use as a resident. That the water meter be
removed after construction of the building is complete. That if any water is to remain on
there needs to be approval from the Central District Health for temporary septic system..
Corrie: I will acxept that as the original motion you made, is there a second to the original
motion of Mr. Rountree?
Morrow: Second
Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded on the original motion of Mr. Rountree, any
further discussion? All those in favor? Opposed?
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 22
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
ITEM #8: REQUEST FQR A TEMPORARY OFFICE BUILDING FOR THE LDS CHURCH:
Corrie: Is there a representative form the LDS Church that can give us some information
on what is being requested?
Balesten: Mr. Mayor and Council I am a pinch hitter, the fellow that was supposed be here
called me and said he couldn't make it tonight. So I don't know all of the particulars but I
have been involved in some of the discussions.
Corrie: What you are asking here for is a maximum of 18 months beginning in January
1997 for a modular building to house the offices for the LDS church is that correct?
Baelsten: That is correct.
Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I would direct the question to our standard for what we have done for
every other church or every other organization that has asked for this type of thing is it is
one year grant with a renewal right (inaudible). So that would be in my mind the same
standard that you would need to come to also. Do you have any problem with that?
Balesten: I don't believe that would be a problem. There is another building that is going
to be under construction I think that anticipated date is going to be about 18 months but
I don't think it would be a problem. I am glad we don't need any water or sewer.
Rountree: I think that answers my question you would be looking at 12 months and then
if you need an extension you have 12 more months assuming that we go with this.
Morrow: And you do need to make that formal application to the City for an extension. I
have no other questions Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Council, any further questions? Questions of staff?
Morrow: Shari and Gary any issues with this? There being no issues, I would move that
we grant the temporary office building to the LDS church for a period of 12 months
beginning January 1, 1997 to run to January 1, 1998 with the option of a one year
extension upon application of the church at that time.
Bentley: Second
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Bentley, any further discussion on the
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Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 23
motion? All those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
ITEM #9: DISCUSSION OF LANDSCAPED BERM FOR MORNING GLORY NO. 2:
Corrie: Shari?
Hunnemiller: Mayor and Councilmen I am Russ Hunnemiller, I guess I have to get it
clarified on my subdivision, how to fit that berm in with the City ordinance. Do you have
a plat there? (Inaudible) and to fit the City ordinance. The way my engineer did it we have
got, we will have a berm easement here on the back of these lots then we have our
easement, utility easements in front of that. So that keeps anybody (inaudible) 30 foot of
the back property line. My idea is I have no problem landscaping it but I want it to be part
of the homeowners lots even if the association through the CC&R's has to maintain it. But
I can't see fencing it out toward the tracks where it benefits nobody and then (inaudible)
to maintain it at their expense for what (inaudible). I can understand City ordinance on pine
or that .(inaudible) thousands of people going by everyday (inaudible) back of the tracks
I can't see where it is of any use.
Corrie: Shari when did the ordinance go into effect?
Stiles: I believe that ordinance was in effect in 1984.
Hunnemiller: Okay, if the ordinance (inaudible)
Rountree: I believe a condition of the final plat item 7 in one of the letters of conditions it
says there will be a 20 foot planting strip along the railroad corridor should be designated
as a common area and the planting strip is required by the ordinance. That is a condition
of the final plat approval. So if you want final plat approval that is a condition you have to
meet.
Hunnemiller: Mr. Councilman we can meet that and the way I look at it {inaudible)
Morrow: I think if I might, the discussion in terms of item 7 was and we have talked about
in the conditions of approval where the common lot concept has been adopted by the City
because we have had nothing but failures every time it has been an easement situation
or an individual lot owner maintenance situation. Now I think that also although when this
ordinance was adopted I wasn't part of any of that but I do know that the railroad track right
of way the 200 foot right of way has been protected by the City of Meridian to be ultimately
used for not only normal passenger and rail freight usage but for a mass transit corridor
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 24
for also a jogging and equestrian corridor. And so my guess is that ordinance was
adopted in 1984 so that it was as things were developed along there it would be a
beautification of that corridor much the same as you would see along Fairview or Cherry
Lane or any other major entrance to the City. I think the second issue is that the
subdivision was approved with that being a common area. And with it being owned by the
homeowners association and that I guess another issue in my mind that the Counselor will
have to answer is that historically fences and berms have been held to a total height of 6,
(Inaudible) six feet and this one has a six foot fence on top of an existing berm. I don't
know that each (inaudible) in terms of that issue.
Hunnemiller: (Inaudible) and I followed what they had (inaudible)
Morrow: Well clearly your conditions of approval were something different.
Hunnemiller: (Inaudible) and you can ask legal counsel on that (inaudible)
Morrow: I understand that it can be done more than one way but as a City we have
rejected because of that experience with easements rejected that both commercial and
residential (inaudible) to do common lot and the owners association maintained and
operated it. So,
Hunnemiller: That part there we can address in the CC&R's even under (inaudible)
Morrow: They are addressed in the CC&R's as a (inaudible) I am not trying to be
argumentative here but what I am trying to tell you and I am not getting my point across
obviously is that we have not as a City landscape easements for individual lots. We have
in my time on the Council only accepted them as common lots owned by the owners
association and maintained by the owners association because we have not good
experience in #erms of easements or individual maintenance. So I guess what I am telling
you is my perspective what is fair for everybody else that works in the City is also fair for
you in this situation.
Hunnemiller: If I make that a common lot (inaudible) and the berm is to keep out as much
noise as possible.
Morrow: I am not sure that I can answer your question. Part of the issue here seems to me
is that these things were all adopted in the public hearing process. The public had the
opportunity to offer testimony and buy the package as it was presented at the public
hearing process if we are going to change something from the public hearing approval it
seems to me that (inaudible) public hearing process (inaudible)
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 25
Hunnemiller: If I make that a common lot and landscape it and let the homeowners
association take care of it am I in compliance?
Morrow: Shari your issues here?
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, another item that was on my comments was item 2, where
they were to submit detailed landscape plans of the berms along Pine Street and other
common areas for approval prior to construction. That would include the placement of the
fence and my approval probably would not include fencing the common lot as a separate.
Now he is going to have one fence and then he is going to have another fence where the
lot owners. So there is going to be a 20 foot wide strip that is fenced on both sides.
Hunnemiller: (Inaudible)
Stiles: That is true but that is approval by the Planning and Zoning Department, that would
by my department as part of my comments.
Rountree: I guess what I see here, I only see one fence.
Hunnemiller: (Inaudible)
Rountree: So as part of the CC&F~'s you could restrict additional fences on the back.
Hunnemiller: Councilman do you mean here at the 20 foot berm line?
Rountree: Well that looks to me like that is the back boundary of the subdivision adjacent
to the Union Pacific Railroad. That is what appears to be the fence location (inaudible)
Hunnemiller: That is correct.
Rountree: Shari (inaudible) bermed fenced on both sides (inaudible) if there is just one
fence on the back side of the subdivision.
Stiles: I don't believe that meets the goals of the comprehensive plan to have a nice
corridor along the railroad or there is no way you are going to tell me that people (End of
Tape) it is the same thing that you have already done.
Hunnemiller: That is correct.
Stiles: A common area is a common area, and it is not included as part of somebody's lot.
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 26
Hunnemiller: Okay, I am willing to make it a common lot here.
Corrie: But you have to move your fence out, you can't have fence in the back of it. Am
I reading that correctly, the fence cannot be in the back of the common lot there. That is
where it shows it here.
Rountree: I think the issue at least that I see is from the council standpoint the plat was
recommended for approval based on the provision of a common lot and landscape berm.
The details of that is for staff review and approval. That is, we have an agreement to
provide a common lot. So as a condition of development submission and approval of
landscape plan is now appropriate on that common lot. It is up to staff to approve or work
out the details of that landscaping. Am I wrong?
Morrow: No, that is essentially what we are saying.
Hunnemiller: I want to say one more thing on that fence, if I move it off the berm
(inaudible) about 2 foot of the rail road base you know (inaudible) I wouldn't like to
(Inaudible) the fence 20 foot in off the berm just for that purpose basically making it harder
to sell (inaudible) .The berm stops (inaudible) I think we have three (inaudible) But I am
willing to put in a common area (inaudible)
Morrow: Mr. Mayor, if I might I would like to ask Counselor in terms of, there is still a
question in my mind about the combination of height and fence of a berm.
Crookston: I have a conflict of interest that is I don't know that question necessarily is a
problem. But I do have to inform the Council that I do have a conflict of interest, Mr.
Hunnemiller is a client and has been a client of Ambrose, Fitzgerald and Crookston for
years. Another associate is doing work for him now. I have to declare that and it would be
up to Mr. Hunnemiller really and the Council to allow me to answer that question.
Hunnemiller: I have not problem.
Morrow: Well the issue in my mind is you work for the City of Meridian as a full time
employee you don't work for Ambrose, Fitzgerald and Crookston. The fact that you have
done so in the past and (Inaudible) account I appreciate the declaration, I don't have a
problem with that prior (inaudible).
Crookston: Well whether or not I have the conflict now or not I have personally done work
for Mr. Hunnemiller years ago. I can't whether I am a full time employee or not I can't
disassociate myself from my past experience Mr. Morrow.
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Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 27
Morrow: I understand.
Corrie: I guess does the Council have any problem with him answering the question to
Council? Then you may answer Mr. Crookston.
Crookston: The way our ordinance reads is that the height of the berm and the fence
cannot be higher in a residential subdivision of 6 feet.
Rountree: Sut there is not indication of what that point of reference is?
Crookston: No there is not.
Rountree: And in the past it has been centerline of the road or back of curb, sidewalk and
potentially in this case it could be centerline of the rail road. Or ground line, lay of the
land.
Crookston: Yes, it wouldn't necessarily be, I would assume that it would have to be
property that is within the subdivision. I don't think that you could measure it from the
railroad, center line of the rail road.
Rountree: So if it is a 3 foot berm that is a three foot plus or minus fence.
Crookston: That is how we have interpreted it in the past.
(Inaudible)
Rountree: There is the option of taking it before the fence variance committee.
Corrie: There is one more avenue I guess.
Smith: Could I offer two cents worth, I think in our City especially on section line roads we
have several cases of berm plus fence exceeding six feet right now today. My own
personal observation is that on an arterial road or a section line road that ultimately will
be a five lane roadway, four travel lanes and a center tum lane. The lots that back up to
those roadways need some protection from sound obviously but as Charlie has made me
aware of in the past wood fence does not offer protection from that sound. But I think more
importantly there is a privacy issue and travelling public being able to look in the back yard
of a home. I think a good example of that is Crestwood Estates Subdivision on Franklin
Road East of Linder. If you are in any kind of a vehicle that has some height to it whether
it is a pick up truck or a delivery truck of some kind. You can look right over the fence into
the backyard of those homes and in that particular case the developer was required to
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 28
build a fence no higher than six feet from as I remember the base elevation was the street
level. It was the top of the curve or whatever it was. I think that a disservice, I think that
the residents that build on lots backing up to high average daily traffic roadway are going
to be penalized. If they aren't allowed, if the developer is not allowed to construct sortie
kind of berm and get the fence up in the air a little bit to provide some privacy for those
property owners. They are going to have to deal with sound. That is going to go through
that wood fence. As I understand it a berm will absorb some of that sound. The only other
more positive means of absorbing that sound would be to construct a masonry fence. But,
that is just my two cents.
Corrie: There is also the possibility of the inter-rail being used in there along there as well
between Nampa, Boise and Meridian. That is something we should look at too.
Rountree: I guess I am back to, to me that is an issue that Shari and Mr. Hunnemiller need
to work out. As long as you are in agreement with the common lot.
Hunnemiller: So basically if I have the common lot then we are (inaudible)
Corrie: Yes
Hunnemiller: I have another question, who enforces the City ordinance?
Morrow: The City enforcement officer (inaudible) the City legal department would handle
the legal issues.
Hunnemiller: I think (Inaudible)
Morrow: I don't know what the conditions for (inaudible)
Hunnemiller: (Inaudible)
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council it is not a matter of it not being enforced in Merrywood,
Menywood's approval did not ask them to have a common lot and they do have the 20 foot
planting strip. You are in compliance if you actually plant that area with the planting strip
requirement. What you are not in compliance with is the conditions of approval which
specifically stated that is going to be a common area and that you will get approval of any
detail landscaped common areas prior to constructing them. The fence was built with no
request of anybody. It wes just put in place and the problem is the approval was in place
then things happened and after the fact you come in and get approval for something you
have already done.
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 29
Hunnemiller: (Inaudible) my mistake because I thought it was just a continuation of
Merrywood No. 1 and 2 (inaudible).
Stiles: If Council wants to remove that condition of the final plat I have no problem if that
is what they want to do. I don't think that meets the intent of the comprehensive plan to
have a fence and 20 feet and then another fence. But, if Mr. Hunnemiller does indeed go
in and plant that and irrigate it he does meet the requirements for a planting strip. It is
strictly the conditions of the plat approval that he is not complying with.
Hunnemiller: (Inaudible)
Rountree: Over time we team and I think as we learn we change and if we don't implement
with those changes we might as well not learn anything. So at some point in time our
ordinances have to be in effect and have to be followed or why change them. So that
would be my position how about the rest of the Council. So I would not be open to
dropping that condition. It has to start at some point in time and it has started with other
subdivisions as well.
Hunnemiller: (Inaudible) tracks I have a hard time. (Inaudible) I think it would be, the
railroad (inaudible) City of Boise, City of Meridian, Nampa, whoever and (inaudible)
continuous and not broke up and have an entity maintain the whole thing instead of having
(inaudible) might never be developed or whatever. (Inaudible}
Morrow: I think if I can address that the answer to that question is it is the City of Meridian
that pioneered the concept of preserving that rail road corridor right of way. What we have
also done as a City is that we are saying this is an example here. We are saying is that
recognizing that the ground common area is owned by the individual subdivisions and we
has our City (inaudible) want that ground landscaped and attractive. The rail road right of
way corridor will always be, at least at this juncture owned by the rail road or a rail road
type of entity. At some point in time (inaudible) it will be done with License agreements
and then that 200 foot could be landscaped under some sort of a license agreement
between the City and the rail road. So your observations essentially are correct but that
is how we have already got there, we have covered that ground. That is what we have
been working for. That is why I think the Council is standing fast with the common lot
landscaping and those issues that you are discussing now. The fact that some before may
not have been required even though they predated the plan or some other action
(inaudible). But as Mr. Rountree brings up is that we learn from that and now we are
pressing ahead and trying to get to the ultimate goal: So your observations are essentially
what we have already done. That is the direction that we are trying to head.
Hunnemiller: (Inaudible)
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 30
Rountree: Correct
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, I am afraid this is going to put us back right where we
started. If I am going to get a landscape plan that shows a fence and 20 feet of
landscaping and another fence I am not going to be able to approve that.
Hunnemiller: Shari would you like the Council to approve the landscaping plan (inaudible)
Stiles: I don't want to have to negotiate, I want you to know what my feeling is that I would
want the fence moved that the perimeter fence would start at their lot lines and the planting
strip would be visible, from the rail road corridor. That is what I would expect to see in a
landscape plan. If Council wants to allow the fence to remain where it is, be used as part
of the lots I am not going to make that decision. I am not going to say that is okay because
I don't think it is. But you can do whatever (inaudible)
Hunnemiller: Shari, do you need a copy of (Inaudible)
Stiles: You are hydroseeding and putting the trees 50 feet apart. Do you have any idea
how far apart those same trees are along the interstate at Edgewood?
Hunnemiller: They say the (inaudible) should be 40 to 50 feet apart. You take a willow tree
40 to 50 feet is (inaudible).
Morrow: Mr. Mayor, it seems to me like in the interest of time this is an appropriate
discussion for Mr. Hunnemiller and Shari and the staff. I think the guidance from the
Council has been that it is to be a common lot area and that there is not to be a double
fence situation. And so the two of them can come to some sort of agreement. If they can't
come to an agreement then appropriately enough in a two week time frame we have
another Council meeting and the issue can be discussed as to exactly what the differences
of opinion are and then the Council can make the decision as to which direction it wants
to go. My recommendation would be that I think Mr. Hunnemiller has a good feel for where
it is we want as a Council, the details of types of trees and location and so on and so forth
ought to be up to he and Shari to work on staff time.
Corrie: Shari, do you have a good feeling about what this Council wants?
Stiles: 1 believe I do
Corrie: Then you are both in agreement then of what we are looking for so we will let you
do that and bring it back in two weeks if it is necessary. Thank you Russ and Shari.
•
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 31
ITEM #10: WATER/SEWER/TRASH DELINQUENCIES:
Corrie: The delinquencies for October turn off schedule for 10/2/96, this is to inform you
in writing if you choose to you have the right to a predetermination hearing at 7:30 P.M.
December 3 before the Mayor and City Council to appear in person to be judged on the
facts and defend the claim by this City that your sewer/water/trash bill is delinquent. You
may retain counsel. This service will be discontinued on December 11, 1996 unless
payment is received in full. Is there anyone present that would like to contest their
water/sewer/trash delinquency? Hearing none I hereby inform that you may appeal or
have the decision of the City reviewed by the Fourth Judicial District pursuant to Idaho
Code. Even though they appeal their water will be shut off. The amount of the turn off list
is $40,442.27, Council, entertain a motion.
Tolsma: So moved
Bentley: Second
Corrie: Moved by Mr. Tolsma, second by Mr. Bentley to approve the delinquency turn off
list, any further discussion? All those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
ITEM #11: APPROVE BILLS:
Morrow: Mr. Mayor I would move that we approve the bills.
Tolsma: Second
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Tolsma to approve the bills, any
further discussion? All those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
Corrie: I guess, Greg, you were not here earlier and we tabled your request for final plat
primarily because we didn't have the written responses.
Johnson: (Inaudible)
Corrie: I think that has already been tabled, it won't make any difference, you have a
chance to talk to us in two weeks but we need those in writing back to the City staff.
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 32
Johnson: If we are going to need to respond in writing on each of these I would like to get
a little quicker. I was notified Friday night at 5:00 there was a message that it was
available I picked it up Monday, more than 24 hours would be a little helpful. We turned
this in about 6 weeks ago. It should have been at least a couple of days for us to respond
to them. I don't have a problem with any of the comments. I have read Shari's request to
get it in writing and that is my fault for not getting it in. But if we could have it a couple days
before anyway it would be helpful. Sometimes there are some things that I need to meet
with my engineer and work out as to whether or not they are feasible. If that is the
(inaudible) I would be glad to respond in the morning in writing that we don't have a
problem with any of the items.
Morrow: Greg I think there was a question, apparently somebody indicated that you had
some issues with item 4, does that ring a bell at all?
Johnson: Creating a common area to encompass the subdivision boundary of Nampa
Meridian Irrigation District and Eight Mile Lateral for the homeowners association. That
is item 4 specific.- The only problem I have with that is she is asking for it to be owned and
maintained by the association. Where that is Eight Mile Lateral is maintained now by the
Nampa Meridian Irrigation District, I would like them to be the primary maintenance for that
and if they refuse or fail to maintain it we could back that up. But in the rest of Sportsman
Subdivision we have fenced it separate. They continue to maintain that easement.
Morrow: Nampa Meridian does?
Johnson: Yes, that is their access road along there and they mow the weeds and we
haven't had a problem with that unless City sees or feels that we do have a problem with
it. That was the only thing I wanted to comment on, on the requirements. I don't have a
problem with it being a separate lot I think that is the way it should be. I would just like to
keep Nampa Meridian as the primary maintenance of their ditches and easements.
Morrow: Bill could you ask Shari to step in so we could have an explanation of her
thoughts there.
Johnson: Shari, we were discussing item 4, the creation of a common lot for Eight Mile
Lateral. I don't have a problem with that on the verbiage that it be owned and maintained
by the association. I would like it to be Nampa Meridian as the primary maintenance of the
Eight Mile Lateral and that acxess road, if they fail to maintain it, the association would be
obligated then.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council this comment has just come up because of some of the other
problems that we have had. Would you have any problem with dedicating it to Nampa
s •
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 33
Meridian?
Johnson: No, that is fine, we can
Stiles: Or would Council, it was actually a comment of Bruce's that he
Johnson: You want to deed the lot to them?
Stiles: In our meeting last, in our irrigation meeting we had, they have indicated that upon
a dedication of it they can make some provisions for maybe doing some plantings in
vescue or something like that so it is not a weed patch. I don't know if that causes you any
problems.
Johnson: That is fine, I don't have a problem deeding it to them or leaving them as the
primary responsibility for maintenance. I don't feel like the homeowners association
should have to maintain something they can't use unless it becomes a fire hazard to them
or something like that.
Stiles: I don't know ifi that would cause any problem as far as having to call Nampa
Meridian when there are weeds instead of the homeowners association.
Morrow: Well I think part of that, Greg to bring up to speed and the rest of the Council one
of the things we are going to discuss under our department reports is that we are looking
into a new concept in terms of dealing with Nampa Meridian and the ditch right of way
issues. I think that we are a few weeks away from having the thing hammered out. It looks
like the best possible option is that Nampa Meridian actually takes deeds to a lesser
amount of easement and then maintains that. In some cases for example where there is
a 60 foot easement they might actually take deed to if it is going to be a cover ditch to 35
feet or 40 feet or 20 feet or whatever the case might be. So we are moving into some real
new innovative ground there. We haven't got it yet put together, I think the issue here is
that we probably accept the concept of Nampa Meridian maintaining it whether it is done
in the short term by easement or in long term by actually you deeding a certain portion of
property to it. I think it makes a certain sense to wait just a little bit until we can get this
put together to see which way is going to work the best. And so that kind of brings the
Council and you up to speed with what Shari was discussing. I guess from my perspective
I don't have a problem if it is an easement in the short term for Nampa Meridian to maintain
it in a fall back position. If (Inaudible) I think we are going to get the problem resolved in
the not too distant future.
Stiles: I think either way it is going to solve the problem that we have had with setbacks
and the fact that those people actually own it but are not able to use it and paying taxes
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 34
on unusable property. That is what we are trying to avoid by creating those common lots
there.
Tolsma: On the, (inaudible) pressurized irrigation (Inaudible) homeowners association,
is this one going to be owned and maintained by (inaudible)
Johnson: Presently it is operated by the homeowners association. We installed it with
phase four was our first phase under it. That was prior to Nampa Meridian getting them to
the irrigation systems. We have continued in phase five to do that and that is what we
would propose. The City public works has been inspecting it, we are building it to Nampa
Meridian standards. If the association after we are through developing if they would like
Nampa Meridian to operate it we have talked a little bit with Nampa Meridian on it and if
that is, if the City would like to do that we don't have a problem with it.
Tolsma: Well what I was inquiring about was several of these pressurized irrigation
systems are operated and owned or maintained by the homeowners and nobody
understands where they are at or how they operate. They just get turned over to them and
I had one guy down there where I live down there that a guy had a garden hose hooked
up to it and it all worked and functioned and (inaudible) he moved out and it gone and
there is nobody (inaudible) and nobody understands how it works.
Johnson: Right now it falls upon me and it is as the subdivision gets larger and that I want
to get rid of it too. It takes a lot of time and it is better to have an entity like Nampa
Meridian maintaining those in the long run.
Tolsma: (Inaudible) valuing is and the switches are, where the pumps are and the where
the water inlet comes in.
Johnson: When somebody digs them up who do they call and who turns them off.
Tolsma: How to pull them out and where the valves are at.
Johnson: Homeowners associations in general are not set up and people move on and
they are not set up to manage those.
Tolsma: That is why I was wondering, it is probably better if Nampa Meridian took over
these operations. Because they are there all the time anyway.
Johnson: The only reason it is on the association is we had started it before that
mechanism is available. But we are building it to their standards and they didn't see any
reason why they wouldn't want to take it over. It is a revenue source for them from their
C~
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 35
standpoint too.
Corrie: (Inaudible)
Morrow: Well I guess Mr. Mayor to get to the point does the Council want to take this
issue off the table and act on it tonight or leave it on for point of discussion?
(Inaudible)
Rountree: I wouldn't be opposed to taking it off table provided that Shari and Gary are
comfortable with commitment on the part of the developer that the terms of the comment
letter are acceptable to them.
Morrow; That being the case Mr. Mayor, I would move
Corrie: Just a moment
Smith: I am sorry Mr. Mayor and Councilman I can't speak specifically for Shari because
she is not here, but I think one of the things that we both need is Greg's written comments
to our comments and if we don't have that a lot of times things fall through the crack and
we don't have something in writing that yes the developer agrees with all of the items
except number 4 or whatever if there are any exceptions. We just need something in the
file so that we have something in writing that they are agreeing to these conditions that we
have asked to be imposed on the development. If the Council accepts those conditions
then we have something to look at when this final plat comes through for signature and we
know that explicitly. Rather than trying to refer to minutes or trying to refer to notes or so
forth. I think if Greg will write that letter to us then Shari and I don't have a problem with
that, taking it off the table.
Morrow: I think Mr. Mayor, my intent in terms of the motion that I was starting to make is
to bring the item number four off the table for discussion by the Council whether they wish
to take action on it or not. So my motion would b~ that we take item four off the table for
discussion for action this evening.
Rountree: Second
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Rountree to bring the final plat of item
4 for Sportsman Pointe No. 6 subdivision from the table to the Council for discussion. Any
further discussion?
Bentley: I would like to see Shari come back in here if she is still available.
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 36
Morrow: Mr. Bentley, the purpose is to get it on the table so that we can have an
acxeptable discussion since we are having the discussion while it is still off the table. We
have to get in the proper sequence, so let's take care of the motion and get it on the table
and have the discussion and then we will deal with this issue when Shari is part of that
discussion. So the motion is very simple, let's get it off the table so we can talk about it
and then take appropriate action.
Bentley: That is fine but I would still like to have Shari present.
Corrie: Any further discussion? All those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
Corrie: Okay, discussion on the floor, we will have Shari come in.
Tolsma: (Inaudible) there is really not a lot to discuss on this (inaudible}
Morrow: The answer is, the point is, the discussion by Gary is now an item that we need
to talk about. Now that we have it off the table the issue is that okay Gary has previously
talked about his issues which are acceptable issues. Shari will get here and she can talk
about her issues. Then if the Council feels comfortable we can make the motion to
approve the final plat subject to conditions. The conditions would be that there would be
a written response and that the applicant have, meet all staff conditions and those types
of things can be incorporated in the motion. So we can act on the issue this evening.
Where we are at here Shari is discussion has been by Greg that he will meet the
conditions that the staff has recommended for the final plat of Sportsman Pointe No. 6.
Gary has discussed that he needs and you need in writing his agreement to meet those
conditions. We have brought this off the table so that we can discuss it and maybe go
ahead and approve it tonight subject to conditions. The question for you is what conditions
would you have other than the ones you have written up or what comments do you have
in terms of that proposal?
Stiles: Councilman Morrow, Mayor and Council if you want to agree it under those
conditions and we do receive the written response I have no problem.
Morrow: Gary, do you have final thoughts? If there is no other discussion then my motion
would be that we approve the final plat request for Sportsman Pointe No. 6 Subdivision by
Gem Park II Partnership subject to all staff conditions, all agency conditions and a special
condition that they respond in writing their agreement to those conditions before the final
plat sign off can be accomplished.
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 37
Rountree: Second
•
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Rountree, any further discussion? All
those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
Morrow: Mr. Smith has a finger up Mr. Mayor.
Smith: Let the record show it is an index finger Mr. Mayor and Council members. Mr.
Johnson called me today, I think it was today, maybe yesterday. We talked about a
situation that has developed in Sportsman Point No. 5 concerning the issuance of building
permits. Sportsman Pointe No. 5 is located at the southwest corner of Locust Grove and
Overland. He has been able to get all of the improvements installed except for asphalt
paving, curb and gutter and sidewalk are installed. The contractor on Monday was bringing
in 3/4 (inaudible) finish gravel prior to installation of pavement. At this point they are not
very optimistic that pavement can be put in place because of the air temperature. The
Highway District requires that the ground has to be thawed or not frozen and the air
temperature has to be 40 degrees fahrenheit and rising in order for them to be ably to
pave. Greg asked the question if he could get building permits in the subdivision to start
house construction without the asphalt being in place. I could not answer that question
for him, obviously building permits could be issued because we do have a surface that will
support emergency vehicles. But, the question here has to do with occupancy. Before
asphalt cart be installed in the Spring of 1997 if Building permits are issued now houses
will be ready for occupancy. That is the question that Ineed -your guidance on and Mr.
Johnson needs and answer on. The, as far as the Highway District is concerned I asked
Mr. Johnson this question about what do they say about the 3/4 (inaudible) going through
a winter and basically his response to me was that they would, the Highway District would
require any contaminated 3/4 be removed and replaced. That is if mud was pushed into
it or it was pushed out of shape and contaminated with dirt they would require that to be
removed and replaced before paving could take place. I told Greg that I don't know if it
was this Council but we had a circumstance in John Barnes development called Hunter
point on Locust Grove Road north of Fairview where they had half of a street paved before
winter set in. And my memory serves me that occupancy permits were not allowed for the
lots not fronting pavement. Some years ago in Sunnybrook Farms, more than some years
ago, Max Boesiger had a parade home that he wanted to build. This was in the early
spring and he didn't have pavement down. At that time the Council allowed him to build
that but they required some bonds to guarantee the street improvements would be made.
Of course the Highway District has bonds on that and the developer had to protect the
sewer manholes and the water valves that project above the 3/4 (inaudible) with
barricades. So the traffic would not damage them. Obviously the sewer and the water
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 38
systems are not going to be accepted by the City until the pavement is down. So those are
going to remain the developers responsibility. But he would need to barricade those off
so they didn't get damaged so that we didn't get a sewer line full of gravel from the street,
valve risers broken and the possibility of the valve riser being pushed down into the valve
and damaging the valve and possibly the pipe itself. So there is going to have to be some
expense born by Greg to make sure that doesn't happen. It may take some more
inspection on our part after the pavement is done or before they have paved. They are
going to have to be sure that everything is okay before they cover it up with asphalt. But
anyway that is the situation and I don't know if Greg has some things that he wants to add
to that or not. But that is what we have talked about.
Corrie: Greg do you have anything you would like to add to that before we discuss it?
Johnson: It is a parade house again, one of the homes that desires to get started is a
parade home. A couple of them are build jobs and the rest of them are spec homes getting
ready for the spring market. I don't have a problem with it being restricted to no occupancy
prior to it being paved. Whether that happens this fall or next spring. It is going to take 90
days to build the houses anyway. If we could get started it would help us substantially to
go ahead and build them and get it paved in the spring.
Corrie: Council any discussion?
Morrow: I guess my only point is that I don't have a problem with them starting and no
occupancy. 1 do think that for the record that everybody needs to be aware of that the
expense and risk is all being born by Mr. Johnson. It is not being borne by the City under
any circumstances. If in my mind if Gary raises a good point that additional inspections
should be required to make sure that there is not underground damage and so on and so
forth. Then l think we are certainly entitled to some compensation of our cost there. Those
would be my only thoughts (inaudible). Basically he has to compact to a 95% plus
compaction factor with his 3/4 (inaudible) and once it freezes it will support the emergency
vehicles and support passenger vehicles. Certainly it is in his own best interest to keep
the (inaudible} functional for (inaudible) and all of the other services. -That is how I see it.
Corrie: I want to make sure that you have your barricades up because they are going to
run over them if they are not. Kids are going to have some fun on that for the (inaudible)
Tolsma: This is a better compacted road (inaudible) after all the problems we had out in
that area?
Smith: Yes sir, much better.
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Meridian City Counoil
December 3, 1996
Page 39
Tolsma: This will be a lot better situation then?
Smith: Yes sir
Tolsma: Then I have no problem with it. I don't need another one like that.
Rountree: I would concur that no occupancy would be allowed if this were to go forth with
building permits that the developer obviously is paying the (Inaudible) on the road (End
of Tape) I think the developer ought to pay the freight on that. If there is a soft spot or
something that pops up because of freeze thaw and somebody gets augured in there and
it happens I think they need to protect the in street infrastructure that is exposed to the
driving public. Other than those concerns I hope the folks that are building those houses
understand they aren't going to be able to move in before spring.
Corrie: Counselor, do we need an agreement, signed agreement to these effects? What
do we need?
Crookston: It would be advisable to have a written agreement that could be recorded.
Morrow: I think that in today's world and from our standpoint as a City to protect the tax
payers interest I think it is mandatory that we have at least an agreement or memorandum
of understanding stating the conditions under which we agree for the early starts in lieu of
the pavement being in. So I think that I would move that we instruct the City Attorney to
draft up and agreement with Sportsman Point No. 5 Subdivision and Gem Park II
Partnership that we agree to the early start in terms of building permits subject to the
conditions that have been discussed by both Councilman Rountree and myself and Mr.
Tolsma, with respect to road surface maintenance, reimbursement for any damages to any
emergency service vehicles due to road surface failure. Reimbursement to the City
inspection department for any additional inspections required within the spring for making
certain the sewer and water facilities in fact are in good shape and acceptable shape.
Rountree: Second
Corrie: You have heard the motion by Mr. Morrow, and second by Mr. Rountree, any
further discussion? Alt those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
Bentley: Mr. Mayor, may we take a five minute break?
FIVE MINUTE BREAK
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 40
ITEM #12: DEPARTMENT REPORTS:
Corrie: Gary Smith?
lJ
Smith: Thank you Mr. Mayor and Council members, the first item I have I believe you have
a copy of it in your packet is the Tully Park design services that has been submitted by
Civil Survey Consultants here in Meridian. Have you had a chance to review the scope of
services for that?
Rountree: The one thing that may not jump out here but is the water fountain that is to be
included somewhere in the park in memory of Jack of which there is an account
somewhere to pay for.
Smith: I don't think Councilman Rountree, I don't think that was included as part of the
design.
Tolsma: Based on a preliminary design on the lower, right off the pathway, the pathway
that runs along the ditch there were two ball diamonds down there and it was supposed
to be between the two ball diamonds. Basically a path that was going to go between the
ball diamonds runs (inaudible) and they had kind of a triangle shaped area where they
were going to use that.
Smith: I don't anticipate that would be a big issue to include that. I do have that on my red
lines for the development plan of Tully Park. So it is in my file on the red lines.
Corrie: Charlie were we still thinking about tennis courts, we were thinking one time
(inaudible)
Rountree: We talked about that at one point in time and Glenn can probably refresh our
memory on that because I know he worked on it then.
Bentley: We had discussed with Council and the Council agreed to pull the tennis courts
and put volleyball courts down there. Also, we had discussed briefly a dirt path for the
police to get down to drive down.
Smith: Yes, and we can make those changes also.
Corrie: So does everything else meet with the Council's approval?
Rountree: I just had another question for Gary, did you do an independent estimate on
what the potential cost of the design of this might be? And is the estimate here consistent
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 41
with that if you did one?
Smith: I did not do one.
Rountree: Is it consistent with industrial standard for the potential cost to develop the park.
It looks to me like it might be a little low.
Smith: I really didn't do any background study on it Councilman to verify that.
Rountree: Do we have an estimated value of construction for the park previously?
Morrow: I guess the question is how much did we budget for this park?
Rountree: Well we have $150,000 plus (inaudible)
Smith: $150,000 was budgeted for the park construction.
Morrow: So we are talking about $150,000 and $150,000 for a total of $300,000? Or just
a total of $150,000?
Rountree: Well we budgeted $150,000 this year but we had $150,000 last year which we
only spent a portion of.
Smith: Right, we didn't envision that we were going to get all of this built this fiscal years.
Our main aim was to get the design done, get it on the shelf and spend the money that is
necessary to do the grading to do the parking lot, to do the sprinkler system, the pump
station and grass.
Morrow: I think my purpose in knowing what the total approximate amount was so that I
could calculate how much percentage. wise of that amount this $40,000 is to determine if
it is in line with industry standards or not. Is the ultimate build out of the park $300,000 or
$500,000, has anybody developed what it was ultimately going to cost us or even an
approximation.
Smith: No sir we have not. We can do that if you want me to bring this back two weeks
from now I will have a number for you.
Morrow: Gary from my standpoint that is not my preference, my preference it to get moving
forward.
Rountree: Well given what we have budgeted we are not that far off at least from the
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 42
standard that I am aware of it which is about 10% and we are looking at $39,500 and we
have budgeted $300,000 and I know it is going to be more than that to finish that park. It
is probably going to be close to half a million 1 would guess.
Corrie: A lot depends on what help that we get to.
Rountree: It depends on, I kind of though that the estimate was in line and maybe a little
low but there is not construction engineering included in that either.
Morrow: No structural
Rountree: Right
Morrow: So if one is required their fees should be required by the above estimate.
Rountree: Right
Morrow: Well I guess from my standpoint then I will make a motion that we accept the
proposal from Civil Survey Consultants Inc. for design work of Tully Park on a contract not
to exceed $39, 785.
Rountree: Second
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Rountree to approve the Civil Survey
Consultants Inc. for the Tully Park design service not to exceed $39,785 any further
discussion, all those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
Smith: Thank you Mr. Mayor and Council. The second item that we have concerns the
Ashford Greens lift station engineering agreement.
Morrow: So do we have one of those in our packet someplace?
Smith: No sir you don't. There was some discussion that was made between Mayor Corrie
and myself and Councilman Bentley concerning this lift station. I didn't distribute the
proposed engineering agreement because I thought that the issue needed to be discussed
based upon comments that I received from the Mayor and Councilman Bentley. I have the
agreement here from Hubble Engineering for the lift station. Their total proposed contract
amount is $43,820 of that amount I think some of that work has already been done in a
preliminary engineering study by Hubble. So, that amount I need to discuss with Gene
i
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
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•
Smith the engineer that has submitted the proposal. But I guess more importantly in my
mind right now is the issue of the lift station itself.
Corrie: How much money was that again Gary?
Smith: $43,820
Corrie: I guess I will go from there, I had a question in the plans it shows on the comp plan
that the lift station was to be North of Ustick and then talking to Gary the lift station is on
the Turnbull property. Is it on your property or north of your property right there at that
comer, on your property. My question is how did it get moved from where it was originally
on the comp plan down to there?
Smith: I can give a little background, this goes back probably middle of 1993, at least
some of the correspondence that Shari found in her files. As Mayor Corrie states the
facility plan draft facility plan that was developed for the City of Meridian showed a regional
lift station located about 2900 feet north of Ustick Road on Black Cat Road which is where
Five Mile Creek crosses Black Cat. That is topographically slow spot in Black Cat
drainage from south to north, drainage from north to south. There is a 33 inch diameter
trunk sewer line shown by that facility plan in Black Cat Road draining to this lift station.
From that lift station the sewage would be lifted to the east along Five Mile Creek to be
treated at the Waste Water plant. When Ashford Greens development was proposed the
developer proposed because of the expense of building the 33 inch diameter line 2900
feet had proposed moving the lift station to the intersection of Ustick and Black Cat Road.
I don't remember all of the why's and wherefores, some of it had to do with the
developability of the ground to the east of Black Cat Road north of Ustick. There was also
an issue about development of land to the west of Black Cat Road north of Ustick that
would require a second lift station in order for it to be developed anyway because it doesn't
flow back to Black Cat. Anyway, the proposal was made by Brighton Corporation to
relocate that regional lift station to Black Cat and Ustick Intersection. Subsequent to that
the lift station was located farther south into the Ashford Greens development, the
northwest comer of the Ashford Greens development which would be at Black Cat Road.
There are basically two options that we looked at. Option one would be to construct the
lift station at Black Cat and Five Mile Creek crossing as shown on the facility plan. The
plus side of that location was that it takes advantage of the natural topography of the
ground, in other words everything is draining to that point. And the lift station would be
about 15 feet in depth. It can be constructed with I guess what you would call
conventional oonstruction although some of the equipment used nowadays I am not sure
where that conventional construction line is. They can do some pretty astounding things.
The second positive point of locating it at the Five Mile Creek crossing of Black Cat is that
it is close to Lift station number two which is the one I just spoke of that would serve a
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
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majority of the property west of Black Cat Road. Negative part of locating the lift station
there was the high initial cost which would be the Black Cat trunk line, the 33 inch
diameter trunk line. Initially we estimated that it would take at least a 21 inch diameter line
to serve the properties that could be developed within the near future and ultimate build
out of that service area would then require a parallel line be constructed to get you to the
33 inch diameter line. Bear in mind that the capacity of the 33 inch line is pretty much
what the capacity of the waste water plant is today. The other negative part of building
that lift station at the Five Mile Creek crossing was we did not have a route for the force
main for the pressure main back to the waste water plant. Other than to parallel Five Mile
Creek. We did not have, we do not have any easements which would be required and
probably we would have to go through condemnation and I don't know that for a fact but
it seems as though in this day and age easements are tough to come by for one reason
or another. If we couldn't get along Five Miie Creek and we had to build in Black Cat and
Ustick Road with a pressure main then we were looking at about 6850 feet of pressure
line. Other negative item that we considered was that we did not have a site for the lift
station at Five Mile Creek crossing of Black Cat. Then we looked at option number 2 of
locating the lift station at Ashford Greens. Positive point was a lower capital expenditure
now, the lift station site is available and on the negative side the lift station would
eventually be bypassed and this would not be a regional lift station. Although this lift
station would serve the west half of the section that Ashford Greens is in which would
include Golf View Estates, Cherry Lane Village Subdivision, Ashford Greens, the Lake at
Cherry Lane No. 4 and Parkside Creek which is draining into the Golfview lift station. It
would serve all of that plus it would serve about 1 /4 mile west of Black Cat Road, on the
west side of Black Cat Road in that adjacent section. It would not be a regional lift station
but it would be an area wide lift station and that is why the cost, I think the cost I reviewed
with Mayor Corrie and Councilman Bentley was about $110,000 for that lift station as
compared to a regional lift station which is more like $430,000 I think it is estimated. The
fact that lift station would be bypassed by the regional lift station is probably not a big
problem because by the time that happens that lift station would be at an age where it
would need to be replaced as far as equipment goes. So ultimately the regional lift station
would still have to be built at Five Mile Creek and Black Cat Road. The pressure lines fihat
would be installed in Black Cat road and Ustick Road would be utilized by that regional lift
station. We would have to pump down Black Cat to the south and connect at Ustick and
then it would go East to gravity. Councilman Bentley asked the question which was a very
good question abut the capacity of the sewer line, would it be discharging into that exists
at Nine Mile Drain and at that point we would have to build a second sewer line from Ustick
North to the plant because that existing line would not have the capacity to accept what
the regional lift station would be pumping obviously. But when we are talking about the
regional lift station we are talking about a long term situation. After I went back and
reviewed the file after I talked to Mayor Corrie and Councilman Bentley yesterday. The
regional lift station in order to serve, if the regional lift station was moved to Ashford
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
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•
Greens it would have to be very deep in order to serve gravity wise all of the property north
to Chinden. If you can visualize what the ground surface line is doing from Five Mile
Creek as you progress to the south it is going uphill to a point anyway. I think the Eight
Mile lateral crosses Black Cat Road south of Ustick. And that is a high point, but that point
is not very far from the northwest corner of Ashford Greens. That is some of the
background on the lift station. The agreement and I don't know that there was a signed
agreement. There was a letter that Mayor Kingsford wrote to Brighton Corporation and
there was a letter that Brighton Corporation wrote back to Mayor Kingsford concerning late
comers and initial cost. I am not aware of any written agreements between Brighton
Corporation and the City of Meridian conceming participation of cost and these items. It
was my understanding that the City of Meridian was going to build the lift station and
Brighton Corporation was going build the pressure line from the lift station to a point of
discharge into the gravity sewer. Brad Watson did a, my Assistant Engineer did a cost
estimate for that construction and his estimate is $110,000 for the lift station and about
$287,000 for the pressure line which would include asphalt and paving an 8 inch force
main. And that total is $400,000. Now getting back to the proposal by Hubble, again I think
part of that work has already been .done. My activities in the last few weeks has not
allowed me to get back to Gene and wrestle this thing to the ground. So that is one reason
why I didn't give you a copy of that agreement tonight for any kind of decision. I just
wanted to give you some background on it.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor, Gary I asked you this question the other day, but I can't remember
what the answer was. What is, on the original site there was going to have to be a 33 inch
line. What is going to have to be put in place of that 33 inch line, are we still going to run
a line?
Smith: Yes sir, there will still be a line that would extend from, well there would still be a
33 inch diameter line in Black Cat Road flowing to Five Mile Creek Crossing of Black Cat
Road.
Bentley: Who has to foot the bill on this? What is the normal procedure on that?
Smith: That is a good question and I guess it is a question that I can't really answer
Councilman. tt goes back to our discussion yesterday as to how sewers are built.
Basically as I mentioned then and I believed to be true that a City can determine where
it is going to develop, where it is going to grow by construction of a sewer line and how that
sewer line is constructed becomes a matter of decision by the governing body whether its
let's put this to the public in the form of a bond issue. Let's try and borrow some funds from
the State of Idaho revolving loan fund for sewer, water improvements. Let's do a
cooperative deal with a group of developers that are interested in developing property
adjacent to this sewer line. There are several methods of financing a sewer line. If a City
•
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 46
i
is flush and has cash and they see that there is a benefit to the City as far as taxes
received perhaps for commercial development. They invest that money in the ground in
the form of a sewer line and recover it in late comer fees along with the tax revenues. That
isn't answering your question specifically but I think those are alternatives as to how sewer
lines are built. The sewer and water line extension that was made in 1986 under the
Interstate to the south side of Meridian Greens and the commercial development that has
taken place at Overland and State Highway 55 was based on a decision that the Council
made then. We would like to see development take place there. Even though all of the
major property owners were contacted and requested to join in as partners for that
extension they did not. They elected to pay a late comers fee which they have been doing.
Yet the Council felt at that time that it was worthwhile for the City to grow in that direction.
That is why they underwrote it and spent the money and did the project.
Bentley: In the changing of the two sides, is there any monetary differences to the City as
far as cash layout what we are going to have to do?
Smith: Well I guess that some of this comes back to a philosophical question or a
philosophical answer is maybe there are two ways that I can try and answer that
Councilman. One on most developments the Council has said to the developer well if you
want to develop then you have to build the facilities. On the other hand the Council has
said as I just mentioned on the Interstate crossing we want to see this development take
place or we want to see this area developed therefore we are going to help build this
facility. I think there are those two sides to that question as far as an answer goes.
Moving the lift station, I guess we are not really moving the regional lift station site, the
regional lift station site is going to remain where it was placed by the facility plan. This lift
station site is asub-regional area that would be serving about 3/4 of a section in land size.
Which would be about 400 acres probably.
Bentley: But we are still going to need the other site?
Smith: Yes
Bentley: Could we have gotten by without the secondary site?
Smith: Well you wouldn't have had Ashford Greens develop without the secondary site.
Other than Ashford Greens needed the site, needed the lift station. The Lake at Cherry
Lane No. 4 needed the lift station. The other developments that are on line now that have
developed are on, they are flowing into an existing lift station. They would continue flowing
into that existing lift station, Golf View lift station until such time that a sewer line was
constructed or until such time the Golf View builds out I guess I should say and then a
sewer line would be built and connect to Ashford Greens at that point. Eliminating the lift
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
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station at Golf View that flow then would come down to this lift station. This proposed lift
station.
Bentley: I guess my next question how this agreement come about can anybody tell me?
Smith: I think maybe. one of the parties to the agreement is here.
Corrie: Maybe Dave can give us some insight on that.
Turnbull: Mr. Mayor and members of the Council as Gary said this goes back almost 3 1/2
years. We were contacted about possibly becoming the developer of the back none of the
Cherry Lane Golf Course before we agreed to do anything, purchase the ground or any
those things. The first thing we did was come to Gary and talk about utility issues and
obviously the major issue to deal with there is sewer. So, over a period of I don't know
several months had several meetings with Gary and Mayor Kingsford and there is some
correspondence back that up. And as Gary related the City saw benefit to promoting
development out in that area and therefore they would take the responsibility of
constructing the lift station. Brighton Corporation would take the responsiblity of
constructing the force main. And based on those agreements we went ahead and
acquired the property and move forward with development. Here we are and at the same
time even before the property was acquired there was some discussion about location of
lift station. We went forward with the project based upon meetings with the former Mayor
and Gary Smith and correspondence that we have from Mayor Kingsford detailing the
items that have been discussed here. That is how it all came about.
Corrie: Your agreements, where are those agreements? I am having trouble finding those
agreements.
Turnbull: I have letters from the City signed by Mayor Kingsford.
Corrie: You do, we don't have any here. I need to
Turnbull: Gary you have those don't you?
Corrie: I have one here that is dated September 1 but it wasn't signed by Mr. Kingsford.
Smith: That is the only one that I have a copy of.
Corrie: It wasn't signed by him but I understand that he approved it.
Turnbull: Whose name did it go out under?
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 48
Corrie: It just said Grant P. Kingsford, but it was a general facility plan, drainage area and
what they did, it didn't mention anything about the lift station being moved at all. That is
why I am trying to found out where this movement (inaudible) the Council hasn't approved
of anything.
Turnbull: That came in early discussions that were later I think, Gary felt like he just
pointed out that a regional lift station at a remote location now that isn't going to be used
really. You are talking about a lift station that is to service property all the way across the
Interstate. You are talking decades down the road and why would the City want to put in
a half million dollars into a lift station that is not needed now. The cost benefit analysis
would say take it in stages and when you get up to a point where you have sufficient flow
then you build the real animal. It is kind of like the way they build interstates, first they
build an overpass with two lanes and sooner or later they might get to 4 lanes but they
don't build the whole thing now because they know the cost is not, the upfront cost is not
going to be justified. It doesn't pay for itself. (Inaudible)
Corrie: My question is where did this change come about in the agreements that it was
going to be done. We are looking at an area of impact that we have to meet with the Ada
County Commissioners. That whole north section up there is going to be ~ vital question.
The Black Cat Five Mile Crossing is a major lift station, regional. That is why I was just
wondering how this agreement came back, if it works fine I don't have a problem with it.
but I just, the problem is we are going to have to build that anyway and then the Ashford
Greens location I was just wondering where it came into play that there was an agreement
that would be done.
Turnbull: Well all I can tell you is we submitted our plans based upon input from Meridian
City we dedicated 50 feet of property for a lift station and ran the sewer line as per our
plans and specifications that were approved by Meridian City to a point of connection to
where the lift station was supposed to be located. Now obviously there was three years of
track record that led Meridian City to beleive that was the optimum solution for the present
time. I can't tell you all of the engineering studies or rationale that went into that, but t think
Gary has pointed out the basics of the economics of why it makes sense.
Corrie: I have no quarrel with that, my question is that this was arbitrarily moved without
the Council's approval that I can find anywhere.
Turnbull: Well I didn't move it.
Corrie: It was proposed by Hubble engineering that is what happened, what should
happen.
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 49
Turnbull: And I have to tell you there was conversation between myself and Mayor
Kingsford and Gary about where to locate that and Gary outlined three different
alternatives that have been discussed. When it came down to going forward with our
projecf we were told that this is where the lift station would be and so we have constructed
the sewer accordingly.
Morrow: If I might Mr. Mayor, I am not sure in my mind that it was arbitrarily moved, I think
Gary has indicated that there is still is the need and that ultimately the regional lift station
gets built that for all practical purposes it sounds to me like this is really asub-regional
station or if that is what you wish to call it. And that it services existing approved
subdivisions to and including Golf View. The options that I copied down here indicate that
to me that the regional lift station when built with a 33 inch service line still will be able to
use part of the pressure line system that is developed from this lift station. Although a
parallel pressure line would have to be built. So, I guess from that perspective the lift
station, the regional lift station hasn't been built, hasn't been moved, doesn't affect the
area that it is going to serve both north of Ustick and Black Cat and South of Ustick and
Black Cat. Ultimately it still gets built although it may be 20, 30, or 40 years from now
before it is built. Because this lift station only services if I am understanding Gary correctly
only services the remaining portion of that section plus 1/4 mile west of Black Cat. That
being the case there would be some natural development stoppage at that 1 /4 mile west
of Black Cat point until some point in the future when there was enough demand to build
the regional lift station and the service lines.
Turnbull: Can 1 just ask Gary one thing, I think even with the regional lift station design that
development stops 1/4 mile west of Black Cat doesn't it? You have to have another one
over on McDermott to service the other 3/4 miles.
Smith: There is another lift station west of the regional lift station, it is called lift station
number 2 which is west of, it is getting close to our west area of impact boundary.
Morrow: Which is getting pretty close to the County line at that point.
Smith: Right, it pumps back into the regional lift station at Five Mile Creek and Black Cat
Road so it is a double lift there.
Corrie: So I guess. the agreement that you, that was made was this lift station in Ashford
Greens would be built so that the Ashford Greens could be built as well and then rather
than going all the way up. You could build Ashford Greens and use the regional lift station
but it would cost more.
Turnbull: Well it was just economically not feasible for either party. We would have, if that
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 50
had been the case I think the City and us as the developer would have just walked away.
Morrow: Well it wouldn't only serve, Mr. Mayor it would not have only served Ashford
Greens it would have served the Lake at Cherry Lane No. 4 and it would have served the
next phases of Golf View Estates however many more are there.
Turnbull: Plus Rod's Parkside I guess, Gary Smith?
Smith: I think there are two more phases of Golf View. What Golf View has been doing is
just leap frogging their lift station. They move it west as they develop and they continue to
pump back to the east into Cherry Lane Village. So they have a lift station they are just
carrying with them basically and once they get to Black Cat Road then they could abandon
that lift station and flow into the Ashford Greens sewer. Which would then flow the pump
by this lift station back to the plant. So this lift station would be serving what is presently
being served by the Golf View lift station which is Parkside Creek, Golf View Estates,
Cherry Lane Village No. 1, those three, plus this lift station would serve Ashford Greens
total development, the Lake at Cherry Lane No. 4 and 1 think there is a little piece of
Dakota Ridge, what is called Dakota Ridge where the school district bought an elementary
school site.
Morrow: From the Aschenbrenners?
Smith: From the Ashchenbrenners, there is a little peke of that would flow back into this
also. And property on the west side of Black Cat Road that could physically gravity into
the line in Black Cat, the sewer line in Black Cat.
Turnbull: Excuse me Gary there is also about 40 to 60 acres west of Aschenbrenners isn't
there?
Smith: West of Ashchenbrenners?
Morrow: That belongs to somebody else other than the Ashchenbrenners.
Smith: Right, I am not sure how much of that could sewer back. I think there is a drain that
runs through that peke, 1 just don't know what the elevations of it, how much of it could
sewer back to Black Cat.
Corrie: But that one in Ashford Greens will be bypassed at some future date?
Smith: Yes, it would be decommissioned and that would happen, I would envision that
would happen when the 33 inch diameter line is built in Black Cat.
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 51
Bentley: We don't have any schedule on that?
LJ
Smith: No sir, there is, these sewer projects are fueled by demand, desire but
development. And or the city's desire for an area to develop. As we have talked before
several times the downstream end of these sewer lines is real expensive. That is why you
see land being purchased at the upper end of a sewer service area, because it is less
expensive. There is no sewer available and it is very costly to get sewer there. So the
price of the land is much less.
Corrie: So I guess David what you are proposing here or what is being proposed here is
the City put in the $110,000 to put the lift station in and you are going to take the rest of
it, cost or your pressurized lines and all of that goes all the way down to the sewer plant
down Ten Mile and the whole bit?
Turnbull: Well it doesn't go down Ten Mile, I think it stops a little bit short of
Smith: It would be west of Ten Mile Mayor, I don't know how many feet but there is a high
point in Ustick Road between Bladc Cat and Ten Mile Road. And somewhere in that area
there would be a change from a pressure line to a gravity line that would then flow (End
of Tape) since 1980 it served Cherry Lane Village the first phases.
Morrow: That would be 1979 to 1980, no 1977 to 1978.
Turnbull: Yes Mr. Mayor that was the agreement that reached previously with Mayor
Kingsford. I think it has been documented in our correspondence, we are building the
pressure line and the city was building the lift station.
Smith: That Mayor Corrie and Councilmen that $110,000 is our cost estimate for the lift
station construction only. Added to that would be engineering for the lift station which at
this point is being proposed at around $40,000. I personally feel it is less than that
becaase of work that has already been done. But that is yet to be hammered out with the
proposed designer.
Morrow: So the issue on the agenda then before us tonight is the Ashford Greens lift
station engineering agreement with Hubble Engineering.
Smith: Yes sir that is correct and I did not present that to you as the proposal because of
these other questions that had surfaced. I wanted to get that on the board for discussion
so that you knew what had happened in the past becuase we do have a new Mayor, we
have two new council members that were not, Mayor Corrie was here I think on the Council
but as a Councilman, but Councilman Bentley and Councilman Rountree were not here.
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 52
Corrie: I just want to make sure the Council understands what is happening here and also
the Council approves because that was never approved by Council that lift station or
anything else was done by the Council.
Turnbull: I thought I had been told and correct me if I am wrong but I had been told that
was budgeted. Walt didn't you tell me that?
Corrie: (Inaudible). the Council never approved a lift station or anything else in Ashford
Greens. That is why I want to make sure that Council does that if they so desire.
Turnbull: Can I ask how the Mayor then represents that to me. I have to deal with
Corrie: I have no idea, I couldn't represent it to you without the Council's approval.
Turnbull: t guess I have been going on good faith and what has been corresponded to me
who is the City's position and obviously I have sunk a lot of money out there and I have
been going along in good faith and have been told the sewer would be there when we had
our development read. Our development is ready.
Corrie: (Inaudible) Council needs to be aware of what is happening here and they also
need I feel they need to approve this.
Morrow: Gary we budgeted the money for this lift station in the 1996-1997 budget is that
not correct?
Smith: Yes, I think we put in about $410,000 I beleive was the number for the lift station.
That wasn't actually a total cost of the project rather than just the cost of the lift station.
That was an error on my part that I included the force main as part of our project.
Morrow: And that is fine. Well I guess from my perspective is that I cannot tell you whether
it was before the Council, it was not before the Council in my time on the Council. Whether
it was before the Council at times prior to that I don't know. I do know that from my
perspective we were always going to build the lift station there and we in this year's budget
included the monies for this lift station. I can't tell you how it got to be that we were always
going to do it.
Turnbull: Excuse me Mr. Mayor I do beleive that all started even before you were on the
Council didn't it Walt?
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 53
Morrow: Yes
Cowie: It did, what I understood on the comprehensive plan the lift station was at Black Cat
and Five Mile Crossing that is what I anticipated where it was. Now it is Ashford Greens
and if it is there then the Council should say okay that is fine. I don't care where it is.
Morrow: Well there are two different lift stations Bob is what we are being told now.
Cowie: I understand that.
Morrow: One is still stays at Black Cat the regional one.
Cowie: Right that is the regional one but the one in Ashford Greens has not been approved
by Council is what I am getting at , it has never been approved by Council.
Morrow: Well at least not the Council that I have been on.
Cowie: And it wasn't the Coucnil that I was on either. I looked back through the whole
thing and if it was then we are fine but if it wasn't so this Council needs to make that
decision that it can go there, again.
Rountree: I guess it is all news to me. Obviously this group of folks (inaudible) some feet
of magic by approving the budget with this line item in it has been approved. Whether that
constitutes approval I don't know, I would leave that to counsel. I can't speak for the
previous Council but it seems to me that there has been direction and guidance to the
developer and some understanding at the City level that this would be done. So I am not
a lawyer but it seems if we are considering back tracking at this point and for some reason
or another we now change direction it seems to me like we are putting the City in kind of
a legal hot spot. I don't know what Counsel would tell me there. I don't know, it is hard for
me to believe that it has gotten to this point gosh the plats have been filed and
preliminaries have been reviewed and the preliminary and final engineering have been
reviewed all on the basis of this happening here. Whether there was an actual
documented action on the part of a previous Council or not it seems to me by those
approvals there has been an approval process. Wayne is that, just by virtue of all of the
events that have happened to this point in time including documentation represented to
the developer as being that of the City that there is an agreement in place.
Crookston: There, I can't say specifically about this particular situation. But there are
case law, I don't believe there are any statutory law on it but there is case law that if
representations have been made and have been acted on forming the basis of an
agreement and there has been no objection and no change to it somewhat dependent
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 54
•
upon how long that has occurred it basically becomes unwritten law.
Tolsma: Well I remember a lot of discussion about this when it was first proposed. I know
some of the comments that the public had at that time was the possible odor because they
thought it was going to be an open plant like we have at the sewer plant now. That was
one of the comments that (inaudible) I remember that was a lot of years ago and that was
some (inaudible) talking about putting it up there off of Black Cat Road back of
Ashchenbrenners place and then (inaudible). It is very vague, I just remember some of the
comments was made at that time.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor, since it is kind of obvious that the City doesn't have all of the copies
of the letters, if Mr. Turnbull has them I think it would be, in order to complete the files it
would make some copies and send them on over so they can include them in the files.
Then we know that we have the agreements in the records.
Turnbull: I would be happy to do that and again my biggest concern here is a matter of
timing. This is, I am looking at April occupancy permits and in order to do that Gary needs
to be cut free to get the work done. So I don't know what can be done in that regard. I can
go back to my office tomorrow morning and copy those and deliver them over, fax them
over or whatever you want.
Morrow: Mr. Mayor to bring this to a conclusion I think that I would offer a motion that we
as a Council approve the, obviously we have already approved the budget for this facility
there is plenty of supportive documentation in terms of action and approvals of various
subdivision that indicates to me that the City's ultimate plan was to do this all along. I
would move that we formally approve the Ashford Greens lift station.
Rountree: Second
Corrie: You heard the motion of Mr. Morrow second by Mr. Rountree, any further
discussion? Alt those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
Morrow: The second motion would be is that we authorize the City engineer to enter into
a lift station engineering agreement with Hubble Engineering authorizing the Mayor to sign
and the Clerk to attest.
Tolsma: Second
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Tolsma, any further discussion? All
•
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 55
those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
•
Corrie: Okay, Gary, number three, late comer cost allowances.
Smith: Mr. Mayor and Council members, this was an item that we discussed at one of the
strategic planning meetings. I don't know that it was ever resolved as to what kind of cost
we can include or should include. I can't even remember where the issue was left, I don't
know if this was something that Wayne was going to research or what. But I have got
several people beating on me to get some late comer agreements out and I guess I need
your guidance as to what you want me to do or if you have some specifics what we can
include in those late comer agreements in terms of costs.
Morrow: Mr. Mayor, to refresh everybody's memory the, where we were at with the late
comer agreements were is that we had a discussion in the strategic planning meeting in
October and that the charge to the council and Gary was that we come up with the items
that we thought would be appropriate. in a late comers agreement. That we bring those
back to the table and craft up a model late comers agreement that would incorporate cost,
the discussion to remind the Council was centered around the sunset clauses, City
administration fee, interest rates on monies, whether the cost included cost for easements
and right of way acquisition. Whether or not there was an issue of cost for profit and
overheads and defining cost. It was left that Gary was to give us an outline, each
Councilman was to draft up his thoughts and then we would handle it at the next Strategic
planning meeting. If you will recall the strategic planning meeting in, was it October got
cancelled?
Corrie: (Inaudible)
Morrow: October's got cancelled and we did the one in November and it was not on the
agenda for the one in November that was an oversight on my part. I simply forgot about
it. But I do have all of the notes here from our discussion.
Rountree: So we can add that to the discussion of the next meeting and Gary knows.
Morrow: That will be on our agenda for the meeting on the 18th.
Corrie: The 18th that is with Planning and Zoning.
Morrow: We are going to meet after the P & Z meeting, is billed as only taking an hour
from 6:30 to 7:30, we determine that since all of the rest of the Tuesdays fell on Christmas
i ~i
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 56
Eve and New Year's Eve that we would meet for another hour to an hour and a half after
that with strategic planning issues. Because we had no other Tuesday's in December to
meet.
Corrie: And you think we can do the Planning and Zoning in an hour.
Morrow: That is what it has been billed to us as that it was going to be an hour meeting to
discuss those issues.
Corrie: An hour meeting, who billed it as an hour meeting?
Morrow: Somebody told me it was going to take about an hour to discuss the issues.
Corrie: Well if we can get it done in an hour more power to us, but I think there are some
questions that Planning and Zoning has that may take more than an hour.
Morrow: And in fact it may.
Corrie: If you
Rountree: Well we can set side boards on the meeting time if we get to it we get to it.
Corrie: Gary, anything else?
Smith: No sir that is all I have.
Corrie: Shari?
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, some time last, year in the last two years we went through
the vacation process for Farmington Estates No. 1. That was approved and done. Now
Farmington Estates No. 2 has come in for some reason all agencies neglected to include
this Farmington Estates No. 2. The applicant has requested that I ask for Council approval
of the vacation since it is merely a house cleaning item. If we could write a letter to Ada
County Highway District saying that Council approved of it. They are still going through the
vacation process as required, it is just they are going to save a lot of time if they don't have
to wait for our whole process to get done before they go to Ada County Highway District.
I know it is unorthodox but in this case I hate to even go through the vacation process but
we have to.
Morrow: You are totally comfortable with us just having a motion and sending a letter to
ACRD?
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 57
Stiles: Yes
Rountree: Are we talking just the two lots
Stiles: With a stub of a road that accesses nothing.
Rountree: And the rest of it has been vacated anyway, that is Bews property right?
Stiles: Yes
Morrow: I would move that we instruct City Planning Director Stiles to send a letter to
ACHD supporting the vacation of that piece of road way and Farmington Estates No. 2.
Bentley: Second
Corrie: Motion made and seconded we have (inaudible)
Crookston: I have a comment, I think that we should have the letter from the owner
requesting this at least.
Stiles: They did submit the whole application, they submitted an entire application they
fully intend to go through the whole process. They just don't want to have to wait for our
process to be completely over before Ada County Highway District starts their process.
Crookston: They have submitted a letter?
Stiles: They submitted an entire vacation application.
Crookston: Some time ago right?
Stiles: Well it will still, it hasn't gone to P & Z yet.
Crookston: As long as we have the letter.
Corrie: Any further discussion? All those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
Stiles: I received a call from Tracy Nelson at the Ada County Development Services today
and she asked that the meeting be scheduled for December 16 with the Ada County
Commissioners from 10 to 11:30 A.M.
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 58
Corrie: Say that again?
Stiles: December 16, 10 to 11:30 to meet with Ada County Commissioners is that, should
I confirm that? It is a Monday?
Corrie: That sounds good to me, it is 10:00 in the morning.
Berg: (Inaudible)
Bentley: Where are they going to meet at, here?
Stiles: I would assume it is at their territory down there.
(Inaudible)
Corrie: Does that meet with everybody's schedule?
(Inaudible)
Corrie: Why don't you make sure you get back with me soon so I can go ahead and
confirm the time.
Stiles: I would like to call her some time tomorrow and let her know if it is possible.
Corrie: So either Shari or myself you can let us know because if I here nothing from
anybody I will assume it is okay.
Bentley: Won't know until Thursday or Friday or maybe next week.
Stiles: Dean asked me to bring up the Jay Amyx property again. Our ordinance does allow
at the Council's discretion at the Council's direction to remove the junk and put a lien on
the property. That is what he would like to do instead of going through the Court crap.
Rountree: Sounds good to me, what does the counselor say?
Crookston: I would say that we at least need to send him a letter stating that we are going
to do it and give him a time frame whether it is, it would be my suggestion that we at least
give him five days to do it and if he doesn't the City will do it and I would just take a look
at the ordinance.
Stiles: Your demand letter said he is to have that done by December 10.
•
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 59
Crookston: That is correct.
Stiles: But then the letter says you will file a contempt motion.
Crookston: That is correct, so we would be changing that action and I think it would be
appropriate to inform him that we are changing or what the City is going to proceed with.
Stiles: So Dean could send him another letter tomorrow that if he doesn't have it done by
the 10th the City will proceed to
Crookston: I would like to take a look at the ordinance that Dean is referencing first.
Stiles: It is 8-1810 or 12 or something like that.
Bentley: Does he have a conditional use permit for that building?
Stiles: Just for the Covino's paint ball.
Corrie: Not for the car painting or anything like that.
Stiles: No
Bentley: Well since that is all one building it would be under the same wouldn't it be under
the same permit?
Stiles: It wasn't, the conditional use permit was only for the paint ball area.
Bentley: Would it be appropriate to send him notice that we are going to hold a hearing to
.revoke his use permit.
Stiles: That would be Covino. Well I would ask Dean to send that letter then but so we
have to wait until the 17th until we can actually start removing it for Council to direct that
to happen.
Crookston: No, the Council can direct that we send the letter, if I approve it. I just want to
look at the ordinance to make sure that we can do that.
Stiles: But at Council's direction the property can be removed and a lien placed on his
property.
Crookston: That is correct.
\J
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 60
Stiles: Because he has already been warned.
•
Corrie: We can take a motion on that one and with the counselor's review of the ordinance.
Bentley: So moved
Tolsma: Second
Corrie: Motion made and seconded, any further discussion? All those in favor?
Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
Corrie: Counselor would you do that post haste?
Crookston: Yes
Stiles: Thank you
Corrie: Chief?
Gordon: I just have one item and that was that our drug dog has completed her training,
was tested Friday and is now State certified.
Morrow: Does she go through a graduation exercise?
Gordon: Not that I know of I wasn't there.
Morrow: Do we have her diploma?
Gordon: We have her certification. Three dogs tested one failed, she was the only one
that found everything that was put out there. So she graduated with honors.
Morrow: That would be normal for somebody from our City.
Rountree: Did you give her a special doggy treat fof that Chief?
Gordon: I personally didn't but that is possible.
Come: Do you want to invite everybody over for the sobriety blow in the tube test on the
13th?
•
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 61
Gordon: Yes, there will be reminders in everybody's box.
Tolsma: Do you have samples out there (inaudible)
Gordon: No, you have to come intoxicated, we don't provide anything other than a ride
home.
Crookston: But don't drive yourself there.
Corrie: Anything else Chief?
Gordon: No sir that is it.
Corrie: Counselor?
Crookston: John Shawcroft approached me to draw a lease agreement between the City
and James Farm, they own the property that is around the intersection of Ten Mile and
McMillan, most of the property around that. The lease is to distribute biodegradable
sludge. The proposal is drafted so that the City pays $7000 each for two parcels of ten
acxes in size. I have drafted the agreement and in a final form. I delivered a copy to Mayor
Corrie, and John is taking the agreement to the James and I told him that I felt it was
necessary that Mr. James sign it before the City was requested to sign it. I have also given
a copy or I had John Shawcroft take a copy to Gary Smith. One nice thing has come up,
I assume you might think it is nice. The Gary Cushman unemployment claim was decided
again and his claim was denied. Then my last thing is whether or not the Council was
going to discuss the agreement on the placement for the attorney's
Morrow: I think the answer to that question is that you were to compare the (inaudible)
what we have budgeted and see if there was a possible (inaudible).
Rountree: Actually Wayne was not in the Executive Session so he probably, that probably
wasn't communicated to him yet.
Morrow: That is true he was not in the Executive Session (inaudible) the assignment is that
you are suppose to cross reference what we have budgeted with what the proposed lease
agreement is and the general feeling was that the rate was about right and okay and we
wanted to make sure what it was we had budgeted. We thought we had the furniture
budgeted (inaudible) What else was there, oh the copy and the fax (inaudible) we wanted
you to compare what we had budgeted with what the lease proposal is.
Bentley: Can you do that?
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Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 62
Crookston: Well I probably can now that I know I am supposed to do it. I would just say
that what was done in the budgetary process didn't include three attorneys and two
secretaries though.
Morrow: (Inaudible) What we had in the budget was monies for desks and those kinds
of things for the secretary which we will still (inaudible) how much money, because we
have to buy a desk for a secretary for a new attorney (inaudible) make sure that we had
those things already covered in the budget. Then the rental rate that we had in the budget
(inaudible).
Crookston: To my knowledge we didn't have a rental rate in the budget.
Morrow: Well we had a rate, monies for leasing the space where you are at.
Crookston: Not to my knowledge.
Corrie: You submitted it (Inaudible) $500,000 you submitted the whole thing also with 3
attorneys and two secretaries.
Crookston: Maybe I did but I don't recall.
Corrie: We can pull it out.
Morrow: Anyhow what we want done is we want to cross reference that information with
what the lease proposal was and see if (inaudible) exactly what the costs are going to be.
Crookston: I can tell you that I don't even know exactly what the lease proposal was.
Berg: (Inaudible)
Corrie: You gave me a run down of the whole thing and itemized everything.
Crookston: (Inaudible)
Berg: Check with me tomorrow.
Crookston: Okay
Corrie: Let's go back, Chief you had something you wanted to tell us?
Gordon: Yes sir, I just got a page, I have been waiting all evening, I knew the dog was out,
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 63
-the bandit task force yesterday bought a pound of marijuana here in Meridian and tonight
had announced a cocaine scheduled. They made the buy of the cocaine and went in on
the house on a search warrant. The dog found another two ounces of cocaine and ten
pounds of marijuana in the house. And she is still looking, so she has paid her way.
Corrie: Mr. Morrow?
Morrow: Three issues very quickly, first is that I do now have a key to the BCDC building
down the street. I will be getting with each of you so that we can walk through and tour the
building as per our conversation on last Tuesday. Second thing is that the ditch committee
did have its first meeting a week ago Monday in terms of trying to bring some sanity to the
ditch covering issue. It was a positive meeting, it seems to me like depending upon
Nampa Meridian irrigation that this committee may need to meet twice more before it has
concrete proposals to bring before the Council. Third thing is that I had talked to ail of you
about a decision in terms of whether it was a conflict from my standpoint as Walt Morrow
Construction doing business within the City of Meridian and having the City of Meridian
inspectors do the code compliance inspections. I would like to have your vote on whether
there is a conflict or not and if there is a conflict then my instruction would be to use
outside inspectors.
Corrie: You want my personal opinion? I think you should be covered, by having an
outside, just so there is, you being the Commissioner of the Public Works just so there is
nobody going to say there is anything connected here.
Morrow: And I appreciate that opinion and I don't disagree with that. 1 think the statute is
such that the Council has to make the decision on it.
Corrie: Sure I am just giving you my opinion, they are going to make the decision, but they
can have my input on it.
Rountree: (Inaudible)
Morrow: Yes because we have already been through one set of inspections and we are
not far away from going through another set.
Rountree: My opinion is I guess I don't see a problem (Inaudible) requirements that if you
are willing (inaudible)
Morrow: When I have done that before is simply assigned Daunt the task of fining up the
outside inspectors and they are to be paid separately. And then the inspecting inspectors
accompany the City inspectors so that they are aware of the City ordinances and codes
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 64
and so on and so forth.
•
Bentley: I think that (inaudible) keeps the finger pointing away.
Morrow: And I don't have a problem with that, like I said we did it that way once before.
And I guess from my standpoint that is the preferred method to do this. I will pass that on
to Daunt. Thank you that is everything.
Corrie: One question on this BCDG how many square footage is that building?
Morrow: Bob I know how much it is I can't off the top of my head, I can't pull that number
out. I have got it at home.
Corrie: If you would see me some time tomorrow I have got that (inaudible} 2500 square
feet and it is $1500 a month. (Inaudible) in a blue print and (inaudible) if you will come by
will give that to you.
Morrow: Maybe in fact what I will do is come by and get it and then when I take each
Council person on a tour we can tour both sides.
Corrie: I have it in my office right now (inaudible) Mr. Bentley?
Bentley: Just a few things, on the post office, I have received unofficial word that they are
pursuing heavily a site on Cole Road. You know their main concern was the fact that wp
didn't have a sewer over here. I said we are sorry but we don't know how soon we will be.
am still waiting for the official word on it yet, but that is all I have so far. With that good
night.
Corrie: Charlie?
Rountree: The second meeting of the Parks and Recreation Commission is tomorrow
evening. That is all I have got.
Corrie: Did you get any more on that (inaudible)
Roun#ree: I can't find anybody that knows anything about that outfit but I have got some
Corrie: Hal Bunderson called me the other day and he is also against that. I will give yns i
that and let you talk to him and (inaudible).
Tolsma: I have nothing.
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 65
Corrie: I have one that, you got in your box about the Historic Preservation Commission
appointments. There was an architect (inaudible) to replace Jim Shearer, he wanted to
get out of there. Gwen Alger to replace Doug Rutan. The Historical Preservation president
Frank Johnson to replace Gwen as President. Certified planner Robert Hobbs to replace
Wayne Forney and Lila would be reappointed as City historian. So that would leave Frank
Th~?ms!son, Bill (inaudible) Gwen Alger, Lila Hill and Robert Hobbs and Tom Hammond on
the committee for the preservation committee, that is the ordinance (inaudible) approval
or disapproval on those people.
1_-__- .t 1 J_._I11. .. __ 1-1_~_ 'iL -~._
Morrow: Mr. Mayor, if I might offer a suggestiui i ii i Lei ~ - ~~ u~, i uur i ~ r lave a ~r ou~ei e o vii tr t ar sy
er' ie'rose names. i guess the issue in my mind was is that it is a 6 person Commission, we
ought to line that thing up so that it is a staggered, that right now we appoint two people
to a one year term, two people to two years and two people to three years and they can
decide in my mind they can decide amongst themselves who takes what term and then
what the issue is that we would theoretically only have to deal with replacements, two
replacements in a one year period and have some continuity to that. And then the other
thii e9 t mat we talked about in the strategic planning meeting the other night was limiting
those types, these appointments to two full three year terrns sn that the nersnn for exarr~npe
~:an serve the one year term actually could end up serving. seven years if in fact they
wishes to serve. The person serving a two year term could end up serving eigi-~t years if
they wanted to serve that long.
Corrie: I have no problem with that, some of these are, two of them wanted to get off so
that is how come it got all fouled up. So how do you want
Morrow: I think what we do Bob is we just simply say that we approve ti e folks and that
what we want to see is that two people take a one year term, two .people take a two year
term and two people take the three year term and then once those folk decide who wants
to do that then we approve that and they also understand that they will have the
opportunity to serve two full three year terms for thnge folk to take the short term.
Rountree: (Inaudible)
Corrie: We will just let them decide (inaudible)
Morrow: That is what the committee ordinance reflects.
Corrie: I will get back with Lila and she can give me those on how they want to do it and
we will bring it back (inaudible). I lost my paper so I guess I don't have anything else.
Bentley: Were you going to say anything on that Ida-Ore?
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 66
Cowie: You discussed that Ida-Ore program, we (inaudible) one of the things that pis you
know is this train thing is coming down the pike and they have got some ideas as far as
grants and monies they can help us on that. I talked with Shari and they can give us some
help as far as her concern on grants. What was it $725 I believe it was. 1 personally feel
that we should be part of that because of this whole transit program coming down the lane,
it is coming faster than I thought it was. Also the studies and something else that I want
to bring it up (inaudible). I didn't get a chance to hear your comments at the planning
meeting so I thought I had better bring it up and see what you thought about the (inaudible)
Ida-Ore for the help in the rail system. They have some ideas as far as depot and
downtown areas, grant monies that could be used to clean that area up down there for the
train depot.
Morrow: I guess the benefit of my thoughts is that most of our experiences recently with
grant monies have been really negative experiences. I don't see any real benefit in terms
of belonging, we can belong to lots of associations i~ut (inaudible) nit ire belong to iaa-a:,re.
I think that what we are going to see with rail or transit systems or whatever might evolve
on that corridor that we have talked about is that there will be ~s6enty of action from lots of
other folk. At the time that it finally begins to take form then we can pick and choose who
we need to be lined up with or what we need to be lined ~.~ :•Jith a^~! ~~ fa^~ ~+ m~~ b°
r?otnir?J th2t wP need to be lined ; rp with. So I don't personally see any benefit in spending
the money with Ida-Ore. That is just how I see it.
f`nv_rrjs: 1 ha_re to disagree with you, I think if we try to play the game backward instead of
forward we are going to get just exactly what we deserve, If we don't have a~ y foresight
t,~ look ahead and sr.hat vie need down there, if they are going to take some government
money we had better look at it. This attitude cf wait and see is going to cost us some real
l;,G; .may b~~u~ ais ;l,irrg is bigger than you may anticipate. I think that is one oi: the areas
that we can get an advantage.
Rountree: My feelings on Ida-Ore is that and transporiatio~: is «:a, e Gve ::~_ _.._.~ _'%~i ~e ::~~ ._.
going to do much far us as gong as we are in tune with APA they are the NPO and they are
going to dial us into whatever is there. I don't know what else Ida-Ore can provide for us
b:.rt if char i ~rantcd to put together a plus and minuses and can show me that there is
w~. ~.
something that can support her efforts I would probably be i. , ;lined d~: Eon ;5 r -rably ~.~
it. °i.it just i a aj+ c"nj.rcricn:c vr'ith luca-w~~rc is fairly extensive over the last 20 years and to be
honest with you I haven't seen them do a whole heck of a lat.
Cowie: They heave done quite a bit err Meridian, why don't you, would you like to do that
Shari, put some of that together. I know that (inaudible)
Rountree: I don't have anything tangible to tell me this is something that Ida-Ore can do
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 67
for the City of Meridian. I know who they are and they are an economic development
group. But,
Corrie: I know they have some things that they have showed us and I should have taut
(inaudible) that is (inaudible).
Rountree: I am coming from the experience with them that has not been not non-productive
but it has been not all that favorable.
Corrie: They have done some things here if you could put that together Tdr us (inaudible)
Rountree: But iT there are sUrrle things out there that we can take advantage of, I would at
least like to know what I am saying no to or what I am saying y~~ tom.
Corrie: You are absolutely right Charlie it was, I should have given you more (inaudible)
Stiles: (Inaudible)
Corrie: (Inaudible) let's get a package together Tor tneri`i. i mink that is the Drily orie that i
had. Do you have anything else?
Morrow: I move to adjourn
Rountree: Second
Corrie: All those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 11:33 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
APPROVED:
ROBERT D. CORRIE, MAYO®
Meridian City Council
December 3, 1996
Page 68
ATTEST:
f~
WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., CITY CLERK
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL
AGENDA
TUESDAY, DECEMBER 3, 1996 - 7:30 P.M.
CITY COI~NCIL CHAMBERS
MINUTES OF PREVIOUS MEETING HELD NOVEMBER 19, 1996: ~~~bvve
MINUTES OF SPECIAL MEETING HELD NOVEMBER 26, 1996: CC~j~If-o~'-e-
~rocla`~.a~i~
1. TABLED NOVEMBER 19, 1996: REQUEST FOR ANNEXATION AND ZONING
C-G AND I-L BY DOUG TAMURA AND ARTHUR BERRY:
~p~orr~~Q ~~~ ~ ~% ~,oPrav~ G~Ci~'iar. ~~,orove ei~ a ~~'ih e~c ~n /g-`,¢/p`u~
2. TABLED NOVEMBER 19, 1 96: REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT ~dih~-~"ce-~
FOR A COMMERCIAL PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT BY DOUG
TAMURA AND ARTHUR BERRY:
3. REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR AN OFFICE/BASEMENT
APARTMENT USE BY DENNIS ~ JANET BUTTERFIELD:
pro ve ~l~ ~ ~l~
4. FINAL PLAT: REQUEST FOR A FINAL PLAT FOR SPORTSMAN POINTE N0.6
SUBDIVISION BY GEM P RK II PARTNERSHIP: ~pi0rov-e~ Scc6,,~~//~~'ect 'r`v
C~'c dy~7~U'nJ'
5. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A VARIANCE FOR CARRIE OFFICE
BUILDING BY JIM CARRIE:
C'iziy a~~~ ~ /~.e paw ~~~
6. NON-DEVELOPMENTAGREEMENT FOR THE LAKE AT CHERRY LANE
SUBDIVISION N0.4:
~cpprove su 6Jr@G~ ~v Gva~~se ~ rev%~
7. REQUEST FOR A BUILDING PERMIT IN ASHFORD GREENS SUBDIVISION FOR
A MODEL HOME:
GtpptoU.e ~`Gr~v.2ct z`o Cord:-,bh..t` l~az/cii~.oj ~u~~ J~-~'
8. REQUEST FOR A TEMPORARY OFFICE BUILDING FOR THE LDS CHURCH:
GG~~p /~~~ rte- /~. C~2 ~~,~hs~) ~ inh.ihoi
9. DISCUSS1tJN OF LANDSCAPE BERM FOR MORNI~G GL(`~RY NO.2:
~a ~~' ~ 6Ut~v-~c acct ~ fztcl~J
10. WATER/SEWER/TRASH DELINQUENCIES
a~lpf'o v~
11. APPROVE BILLS:
~~,oroU~
12. DEPARTMENT REPORTS:
A. GARY SMITH, CITY ENGINEER:
1. TULLY PARK ENGINEERING AGREEMENT: a~up~~e-
2. ASHFORD GREENS LIFT STATION ENGINEERING AGREEMENT: ~~orov~
3. LATE-COMER COST ALLOWANCES:
B. SHARI STILES, PLANNING & ZONING ADMINISTRATOR:
1. FARMINGTON ESTATES 0.2 VACATION:
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING: December 3.1996
APPLICANT: ITEM NUMBER; 10
REQUEST: WATER/SEWERITRASH DELINQUENCIES
AGENCY COMMENTS
CITY CLERK:
CITY ENGINEER:
CITY PLANNING DIRECTOR:
CITY ATTORNEY:
CITY POLICE DEPT:
CITY FIRE DEPT:
CITY BUILDING DEPT:
~~
MERIDIAN SCHOOL DISTRICT:
MERIDIAN POST OFFICE:
ADA COUNTY HIGHWAY DISTRICT:
ADA COUNTY STREET NAME COMMITTEE:
CENTRAL DISTRICT HEALTH:
NAMPA MERIDIAN IRRIGATION:
SETTLERS IRRIGATION:
IDAHO POWER:
US WEST:
INTERMOUNTAIN GAS:
BUREAU OF RECLAMATION:
OTHER:
All Materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING: December 3,1996
APPLICANT: ITEM NUMBER; 11
REQUEST: APROVE BILLS
AGENCY
CITY CLERK:
CITY ENGINEER:
CITY PLANNING DIRECTOR:
CITY ATTORNEY:
CITY POLICE DEPT:
CITY FIRE DEPT:
CITY BUILQING DEPT:
MERIDIAN SCHOOL DISTRICT:
MERIDIAN POST OFFICE:
ADA COUNTY HIGHWAY DISTRICT:
ADA COUNTY STREET NAME COMMITTEE:
CENTRAL DISTRICT HEALTH:
NAMPA MERIDIAN IRRIGATION:
SETTLERS IRRIGATION:
IDAHO POWER:
US WEST:
INTERMOUNTAIN GAS:
BUREAU OF RECLAMATION:
COMMENTS
OTHER:
All Materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
DELINQUENCY FOR OCTOBER
TURNOFF SCHEDULED FOR-1F8~9~f96--
P~~3~96
MAYOR: This is to inform you in writing, if you choose to, you have the right to a
Pre-determination hearing at 7:30 P.M. , DEC. 3,1996 before the Mayor and the City
Council to appear in person to be judged on the facts and defend the claim made
by this City that your water, sewer and trash bill is delinquent. You may retain
councel. This service will be discontinued on DEC. 11, 1996, unless payment is received
in full. Is there anyone present who wishes to contest their water, sewer and .trash
delinquency? No response.
MAYOR: They are hereby informed that they may appeal or have the decision of
the City reviewed by the Fourth Judicial District Court, pursuant to Idhao Code.
Even though they appeal, their water will be shut off. The amount of the turn off list
is $ 40,442.27
~ ~
DELINQUENCY LIST
TURN OFF LIST SCHEDULE FOR 12/11/96
ACCOUNT# NAME & ADDRESS AMT. PAST DUE
1-20 THOMAS R HAIVIMOND 106.00
1-30 JOHN BEAUDOIN 62.80
1-170 RICHRD & KIMBERLY LOYA 121.40
1-230 FAYE CHESTER 90.30
1-720 DOUGLAS HADLEY 55.40
1-800 SID & SHELLY BREWER 156.00
647 W BROADWAY AV
1-930 MICHAEL STILES 72.20
223 W BRAODWAY AV
1-1160 DONALD J FLATEN 85.40
32 W IDAHO AV
1-2040 DOUGLAS SEAMON 68.40
203 W IDAHO AV
1-2770 HAROLD RIGENHAGEN 54.40
552 NW 15TH STREET
1-3130 ALLEN FLEMING 5$.00
93 5 W PINE AV
1-3200 MARYANN NEWKIRK 47.20
847 W P1NE AVE
1-3290 EVERETT WILSON 272.60
802 W 7TH ST
1-3310 EMII. & ESTHER BRINCKEN 231.40
711 W PINE AV
1-3340 JERALD GOULD
619 W PINE AV
1-3 510 EARL & KATHLEEN BRINEGAR
205 PINE AV W
1-4100 HAROLD BRISCOE
646 W FRANKLIN RD
2-70 CYNTHIA THOMAS
922 W 2ND ST
2-180 RONDA LOWE
921 W 3RD ST
2-402 ANDREW & DANITA
912 MW 7TH AV
2-444 STACIE IRISH
548 CRITERION ST
2-458 JOHN & DEENA
682 W CRITERION ST
2-466 WILLIAM & KELLY VICK
673 APPLEGATE WY ST
2-498 CHRISTOPHER CADE
1017 NW 7TH AV
2-526 DAVID L. MOSSI
1032 W 8TH ST
2-660 AUSTIN L. YOUNG
908 W 10TH ST
2-958 TINA HENDRICKSON
915 NW 14TH ST
2-1170 KENT & SUSAN CAMPOSAN
1304 W 1ST ST
2-1190 A TERRELL
1324 W 1ST ST
93.40
194.60
31.00
57.40
164.20
107.60
88.40
137.20
113.80
141.80
192.20
67.80
121.00
157.80
209.30
~~ i ~
2-1400 BOYD & WENDY HUCKABAY 142.80
1513 W 1ST ST
2-1560 DAVID DOMKA 109.00
1404 W 2ND ST
2-1610 DENICE DESILET 100.20
1502W2NDST
2-1700 LEON SMITH 73.20
125 W CHERRY LN
2-1721 DR. BARRY SAMS 57.00
SPRINKLER
2-1730 DR. BARRY SAMS 231.40
403 W CHERRY LANE
2-1860 H LARUE BEVINGTON 140.40
240 W MAPLE AV
2-1970 KERRY L. CARSON 113.60
225 W MAPLE AV
2-2140 WII,MA BLAIR 86.20
1239 W 2ND ST
2-2170 ANNABELLE MOORE 74.60
232 CHERRY AV
2-2190 JOSHUA & JOEL THOMAS 117.60
312 W CHERRY AV
2-2280 RICHARD SCHERER 107.80
201 CHERRY AV
2-2290 JAMES RICH 90.80
1230 W 2ND ST
2-2360 DAVID SEINKNECHT 74.00
202 W WASHINGTON AV
2-440 336 W WASHINGTON 62.40
SHAWN R MCCLANNAHAN
^
2-4990 DEENA PATTERSON 105.91
330 CHERRY AV
2-2550 PAUL PACK 134.60
1313 W 4TH ST
2-2602 MARK & CHERRI HILDEBRANDT 122.60
1406 N MIDTOWN ST
2-3000 TONY & TERESA HOUSTON 61.60
63 5 W CHERRY LN
2-3180 WALTER RYAN 104.20
1131 W7THST
2-3330 WILLIAM & IVY MCGILL 82.20
1125 W 6TH ST
2-3600 WILLIAM HUTCHINGS 62.60
309 W WASHINGTON AV
2-3650 ROBERT NEWBERRY 57.00
121 W WASHINGTON AV
2-3650 ROBERT NEWBERRY 57.00
121 WASHINGTON AVE W
2-4340 RICHARD CARRIER 100.80
1215 ELM COURT
2-4750 COLLEEN FUNK 75.80
1414 14TH ST W
2-4800 JUDY L. TODD 82.30
1400 NORTHGATE AV
2-4870 WINNIE MORTON 241.40
1528 W 15TH ST
2-5020 KENNETH WOOD 111.20
1538 N CINDER RD
2-5310 PENNY MCCATHRON 208.40
1533 ELM PLASE
2-5670 JAMES R RANSOM 65.60
1017 W 15TH ST
2-5710 RICHARD G WESTCOTT 49.40
1421 W CARLTON ST
2-5720 ANTHONY DENNIS 181.20
1407 W CARLTON ST
2-5730 DAVID & BRYSON WALKER 86.60
1339 W CARLTON AV
2-5790 LINDA SOULE 90.50
1104 W 13TH AV
2-5830 CHARLES FARNESWORTH 140.30
1326 W CARLTON ST
2-5850 PHILLIP DUPEROUZEL 108.40
1406 W CARLTON ST
2-5890 KAY FEIL 60.00
1036 W 15TH AV
2-5940 SHIRLEY MARINEAU 78.40
1037 WASHINGTON CIRCLE
2-6170 MRS. GEORGE KING 66.00
1119 11TH ST W
2-6380 STEVE G NONAMAKER 69.00
908 W WASHINGTON DR
2-6390 BECKY STITZ 65.60
914 WASHINGTON AV W
3-4 JAN WILSON 77.00
^ '
. ~ •
2016 W SLATON DR
3-54 RICK FISHER 141.80
705 N ABERNATHY WY
3-332 DAVID PORTER 78.20
1979 W SLATON DR
3-344 DEAN & REBECCA GOODNER 76.00
731 N ROTAN AV
3-414 ROBERT & SHARON HUFFMAN 73.20
627 N TALL PINE PL
3-420 RICHARD THURBER 117.20
674 N TALL PINE PL
3-508 JAMES SANDERS 107.00
882 N TALL PINE PL
4-1406 CHRIS & ROBYN POTTER 163.30
1519 N HAVEN COVE AV
4-1412 RODNEY & M. NAOMI 132.20
2826 W LEONARD CT
4-1438 MARY R BARNEY 102.50
2960 SHERYL ST W
4-1454 WILLIAM CAVINESS 115.40
1257 N CLARA AV
4-1576 PRESCOTT HOMES 46.40
2768 W SANTA CLARA DR
4-1626 SHANE & MICHELLE 104.20
2812 W WILLARD ST
4-1634 RUSSELL C MOORE 91.60
2922 W WILLARD ST
4-1698 TONY & TRUDY MCDONALD 141.20
2629 W LEROY CT
4-1742 BRADLEY WESTBERG 127.50
2678 W SHERYL ST
4-1796 JOHN & SUSAN CAPRAI
1327 N RUTLEDGE AV
4-1834 MARK BITONI
2495 W SANTA CLARA DR
4-1950 EDWARD WHITE
2200 SONOMA DR W
4-1948 MATTHEW MOORE
2322 SONOMA CT W
4-2084 RONALD DOUTHIT
2298 SANA CLARA W
4-2236 BRIAN CROOSLAND
1718 SLJNNYSLOPE DR W
4-2280 STEVEN HAMMOND
1842 SONOMA DR W
4-2320 ROBERT & JOHN PRIGGE
1516 N VINEYARD AV
5-168 JACK & CONNIE KLAPWYK
3953 W PARK CREEK DR
5-180 DEANO & PAMELA ROCCA
4082 W THORN CREEK CT
5-214 DUANE SESSIONS
3848 W PARK CREEK DR
5-250 JOHN & MARIA GII,BERT
4243 W BLUE CREEK DRIVE
5-264 TERRANCE & GALE BRENNAN
1225 N SAW CREEK PL
5-274 BRENT BLASER
1221 N CHERRY CREEK PL
5-392 LORIN WELLMAN
•
120.80
72.60
55.60
88.40
124.00
115.80
155.80
84.40
82.60
159.40
163.60
150.40
184.20
132.80
248.70
v~ i i
3831 W PARK CREEK PL
5-756 STEVE & KATHY HUNTER 171.60
1468 N MIRROR CREEK WY
5-768 MONT TOLMAN 133.30
1401 N DEEP CREEK WY
5-820 MATHEW LORCHER 126.30
3850 W ASPEN CREEK
20-190 LINDA WARD 91.70
1685 N SUMNIERTREE WY
20-1542 WILLIAM KNAPP 69.20
3465 W WOODMONT DR
20-1664 STEVEN MEDLEY 146.70
3761 WOODMONT DR
20-1682 ROBERT STOTTS 165.20
3659 WOODMONT DR
20-1698 MICHAEL L MEACHAM 180.00
3720 WOODMONT DR
20-1846 MICKEY L WARE 149.40
3721 SEA ISLAND CT
20-1894 ADDY HUSTON 67.30
1955 INTERLACHEN WY
20-1944 GARY C. NEWBOLD 121.40
1761 INTERLACHEN WAY
20-1984 STEVEN FEASTER 66.00
3777 QUAKER RIDGE
20-2010 GARY & CHARLENE MILLER 121.80
3740 QUAKER RIDGE DR
21-2 JOHN CLIFFORD 110.80
1602 TODD WAY
~~ ~ ~
21-6 PAUL BROMET 88.80
1662 TODD WY
21-2 DONALD & JONI HIKE 141.60
1722 TODD WAY
21-26 ROBERT HOWELL 80.00
1850 KRISTEN WY
32-50 CLARENCE & LAURA 91.60
2086 LEANN WY
21-502 ROBERT STANPHILL 143.00
2818 QUARRYSTONE N WY
21-996 DAVID & KRISTEN 156.00
2723 PEBBELSTONE CT W
21-1008 DALLAS & MITZI MCCULLOCH 139.00
2937 N QUARRYSTONE WY
21-1032 PAUL & DEBORAH WETHERSPOON 194.80
2956 N FIELDSTONE WY
21-1052 MARY R BARNEY 109.20
2989 N FIELDSTONE WY
21-1102 ERIK BEAL 160.40
2701 OLD STONE WY N
21-1148 RONALD RDFORD 125.80
2370 N MAXIS WY
21-1150 RANDALL & HALLEE 189.40
2392 NN MAXIS WY
21-1950 DAVID WHITTEN 90.50
2151 TODD WY
21-1760 LINDAY L. GRAPATIN 123.28
1890 MARRIANNA PL
21-1776 EARL FOREMAN 100.60
1920 TODD WAY
1 • •
21-1784 SHARRON ANDERSEN 63.40
2551 JEFFREY CT
21-1870 DOUGLAS & CARLA SCHOPPELREY 102.00
2644 REBECCA WY
21-1874 ALAN & HEIDI HARDWICK 74.40
1879 TODD WY
21-1900 BARRY H. MIJIR 108.60
2585 MISTY DR
21-1920 KONNEL & KATHERINE 108.60
2512 REBECCA WY
21-1940 EDWARD & DELOY LANCE 83.60
2613 REBCCA WY
21-1968 TAMRA WELDIN 61.00
2511 RBECCA WY
21-1973 SUNNYBROOK FARMS HOMEOWNERS 47.00
SPRINKLER
21-1990 JAMES L WALSH 67.20
2935 ANN ST W
21-2006 MARK & TAMARA ROSE 74.80
1732 MORELLO AV N
21-2014 KENNETH TETRAULT 75.00
2830 GEMSTONE DR
21-2056 JEFF SALVATORE 62.20
1735 VICTOR AV N
21-2230 LINDA PAGE 74.40
2892 W CANDICE
21-2240 MIKE WARD 103.40
3020 W KANDICE CT
21-2626 ROBERT BASAURI 315.50
3103 W KENDRICK
21-2636 ROBERT & TRACY
3041 BONNER ST
21-2732 RON THURBER
2482 N STONW PLACE
21-2736 RICHARD THURBER
2506 STONE PL
21-2918 DAVID & KAREN REYES
2953 ELK STREAM ST W
21-2932 PATRIC & SUSAN BRIDGES
2938 ELK STREAM ST W
21-2940 LAWRENCE KOERNER
2963 FIELD STREAM DR W
21-2984 TOM & DEME
3138 MIRAGE CT W
21-3036 GERALDINE BARB
2991 RAVENHURST ST W
21-3048 WILLIAM THORNTON
2839 RAVENHURST W ST
21-3068 PATRICK & JUDY BOYDSTUN
2943 W JOUST ST W
21-3070 KIlVIBERLY DECK
2921 W JOUST ST
21-3086 PETER & LISA COVINA
2926 W RAVENHLTRST ST
22-310 MICHAEL & KORRENA
1730 W CHATTEAU DR
22-322 CLIFFORD WELLS
1830 W CHATEAU DR.
22-868 RONALD POLLARD
2307 N KUBIC PL
315.50
85.10
84.20
83.60
100.40
79.40
117.80
117.40
179.60
106.00
114.20
114.00
89.00
,107.00
186.00
22-19 JEAN RUCKER 108.60
2261 MONACO WY
22-994 CHRISTOPHER GIORGIO 120.20
2245 N MARBURG PL
22-1032 REN THOMPSON 83.50
2039 N NYBORG WY
22-1216 ROBERT WHEILER 107.60
2208 W HENDRICKSON ST
22-1356 MARVIN L. KERBS 173.40
1983 HENDRICKSON CT
22-1410 ROBERT & MICHELLE BUCHANAN 94.90
1811 W MCGLINCHEY ST
22-1436 JAMES & SALLY HANKE 112.20
1912 CAIRNS WY
22-1450 ROBERT & DEBORAH FRENCH 77.40
1643 MCGLINCHEY ST W
22-1466 MARCUS SHELDON 108.50
1710 HENDRICKSON ST W
22-1504 RANDY L SIMPSON 105.40
1764 SANDELWOOD DR
22-1524 CARL L. KOCH 118.60
1994 SANDELWOOD DR
22-1634 EVA LOUISE REED 65.00
2291 N CINDER RD
31-248 RUSSEL S. HEUGHINS 94.20
1528 W CHERRY LN
31-430 RAY CASTANEDA 112.20
1511 STOREY AV
31-470 CAY D. DONOHOE 164.80
1402 SANDALWOOD
31-478 ED 417.80
1532 SANDALWOOD DR
31-508 ALICE STRATE 91.60
1492 STOREY ST
31-514 LORRETA JENSEN 53.00
1522 STOREY AV
31-538 ROBER L. MII,LER 73.52
1521 KINGSWOOD AV
31-728 KATHERINE BERTO 83.00
1332 NEWPORT DR
31-732 WILLIAM & SANDY 116.22
2132 NEWPORT DR
31-814 MIKE MCDOUGAL 104.40
2044 12TH ST NW
31-830 CHRISTOPHER & SADIE KNIGHT 60.28
1203 DELMAR DR
31-864 DIANE GII,BERT 84.20
1316 W CHATEAU DR
31-866 VICKEE PARSON&POOLE 185.00
1328 W CHATEAU AVE
31-874 EDWARD E SPELLMAN 106.00
1424 W CHATEAU AV
31-1004 ROBERT BEHNER 171.80
1531 CLAIRE ST
31-1008 MARY PERMAN 101.:80
1481 DARRAH DR
31-1264 BRENT & JEAN MORGAN 84.00
1232 DARRAH DR
31-2226 AUDREY JOHNSTON & ANNA HORN 88.77
31-2230 TAMI WATTERS
2691 13TH ST
31-2312 LAWRENCE E JONES
1495 LOWERY ST
31-3002 DAVE CHRISTENSEN
2240 NW 15TH ST
31-3016 HARRY DAMS
2217 NW 14TH ST
31-3018 FORREST SCHUSTER
2218 CHATEAU AV W
31-3034 MARYLYN EDWARDS
1311 W CHATEAU DR
31-3060 DAVID BASTIAN
960 W CHATEAU DR
31-3236 VICKIE HRUSKA
2267 11TH ST NW
31-3242 DAVID E MCGOWAN
2211 11TH ST NW
31-3272 KATHY NEWMAN
2095 11 TTH AV NW
31-3294 ROD T WERLE
1061 NEWPORT CT W
31-3324 CHARLES AKE
971 DELMAR DR
31-3336 JUDITH CRYER
811 DELMAR
31-3354 ELIZABETH LEONARDSON
2232 10TH ST NW
31-3400 DANIEL L. RUSSELL
2222 11TH AVE NW
•
69.20
71.60
82.80
78.40
113.20
54.40
115.60
116.00
131..20
89.00
103.80
78.28
55.52
85.00
82.60
i.
31-3406 MARY H ULIN 78.20
1111 FAIRWOOD CT
31-3504 LINDA PADOCK 88.00
1643 11TH AV NW
31-3544 ROBERT S MCLAUCHLIN 88.50
891 W NEWPORT ST
31-3560 DONALD FICKES 190.40
1016 DTOREY AV
32-544 JEFFERY & LORIS FENNER 125.40
606 LAWNDALE DR
32-566 BARBARA J HICKS 208.50
1919 CRESTMONT DR
32-602. JUDITH LOLLY 132.60
1720 CRESTMONT DR
32-630 VINCENT GARDNER 96.20
2070 CRESTMONT DR
32-644 JOHN SUITER 113.80
411 CRAMMER DR
32-647 DOUGLAS & KATHLEEN MCVEY 77.50
331 CRAMMER DR
32-684 SCOTT L STUART 80.40
162 CRAMMER DR
32-864 LEROY SMITH 136.00
694 LONGFORD DR
32-904 JERRY HAMII,TON 92.00
2410 KELSEY PL N
32-910 FRANK & CATHERINE 130.40
2395 KELSEY PL N
32-978 RICHARD & N DANETTE KRIEHN 127.60
320 W SPICEWOOD DR
~ ~ Y
•
32-1100. JACK BURTON 104.50
330 CHRISTFIELD DR W
32-1168 ANTHONY & PENNY GULBIS 176.00
285 W SPICEWOOD DR
32-1298 MICHELE FLORENCE 80.60
419 WOODBURY DR W
32-1384 KEN & LISA GATES 93.40
560 WATERBURY DR W
32-1612 GENA MEHLUM 46.40
2611 RIDGEBURY WY N
33-56 TEL CAR 796.30
220 E FAIRVIEW AVE
33-1838 RODNEY POLENSKY 84.00
235 E WOODBURY DR
33-1850 GARY & BOBETTE 70.80
2472 LARCHMONT PL N
33-2278 RIK & CAROL LEWIS 85.25
2533 ARROW WOOD WAY N
33-2538 GEORGE & ELIZABETH MENDOZA 51.00
700 E GROUSE CT E
33-2550 MONTEREY HOMES 49.40
2564 CAPECOD WY N
33-3636 KIMBERLY DONNER 47.38
444 E BALDWIN ST
33-4154 RAYMOND BOBKO 83.60
2711 ARROW WOOD WY N
34-342 RONALD & THERESE DARCO 122.00
686 JERICHO RD
34-354 ROBERT HYLTON 59.40
1812 JERICO RD
•
34-366 GREGORY ARNOLD 102.50
1926 JERICO RD
34-496 TIMOTHY LOVE 115.00
2089 N SAPPHIRE PL
34-500 LAYNE MOURITSEN 179.12
2092 SAPPHIRE PL N
34-504 RONALD ERICKSON 106.00
2096 SAPPHIIZE PL N
34-688 CLARISA TEMPLIN 72.20
2342 SAPPHIltE AV N
34-748 FREDRICK FREE 106.40
1110 CHATEAU AV E
34-812 KARL & LORRAINE KAUTZ 70.50
2298 10TH AVE NE
34-832 MICHAEL R PLETCHER 64.40
968 BLUE HEREN ST E
34-856 ARLUS BURGESS 157.60
989 E BROWN BEAR CT
34-860 BENJAMIN J FLYNN 95.40
980 E BROWN BEAR CT
34-994 DREW & VICKI MASON 104.00
2592 N SHOVELER WY
34-1036 RONALD & MELANIE LANDON 164.40
1288 E HUNTER DR
34-1050 IVAN BONDAR 66.00
2564 N BOBCAT WY
34-1172 CARL & DOROTHY QUARENBERG 137.00
2530 N BLACK BEAR WY
34-1318 ROBERT &JODIE TOFFELMIER 103.60
2627 N SNOW GOOSE WY
•
34-1560 HAROLD PHILP
952 E HAWK ST
34-1698 DAVID & CINDY RABEHL
2499 N LARK AV
34-1754 DAVID LIEERMAN
2307 N LARK AV
34-1764 RICHARD CUNNINGHAM'
8445 E CHATEAU DR
34-1774 DAVID COOPER
979 E CHATEAU DR
34-183 8 MICHAEL P KELLY
2071 10TH AVE NE
34-1874 RANDALL C SEELY
802 WILLOWBROOK DR E
34-1880 SHANNON JOHNSTON
2062 N LARK PL
34-1900 SANFORD E GATES
2101 N LARK PL
34-1940 LESTER MOORS
723 E WILLOWBROOK DR
34-1966 KEVIN SEELY
1055 WILLOWBROOK DR E
34-2044 WII,LIAM MILLER
1855 TEARS AV
34-2122 GLEN SCHMIDT
1920 TEARS AV
34-2701 VIJYA LAXIVII DEVELOPEMENT
SPRINKLER-COUGAR CREEK
34-2760 RICHARD THURBER
1197 E COUGAR CREEK DR
•
108.20
124.80
93.50
148.20
122.60
117.80
74.00
129.20
49.40
60.00
106.60
94.00
108.20
281.00
63.40
34-2840 CANYON CREST HOMES 46.40
1223 E SHARPTAIL ST
34-3284 JOE & TAMMY DUNK 69.90
1509 E STORMY DR
34-3286 ROBERT HALE 63.40
1527 E STORMY DR
42-350 BLACKSTEAD INVESTMENT 122.20
2332 APRICOT DR E
42-1074 MARK THOMANN 111.13
1715 E OAKCREST DR
42-1899 MIRAGE MEADOW HOMEOWNER 75.00
SPRINKLER -MIR MEADS
42-1990 JAMES PETTERSON 159.60
2215 MEADOWROSE PL N
42-2024 ROBERT V STEEN 109.60
2149 E CHATEAU DR
42-252 BRAD L MCKINLEY 101.00
2220 E CHATEAU DR
42-2496 LESLIE SIEMON 123.60
1961 LOCHMEADOW CT E
42-2552 JACK METHER 94.60
2173 LOCHMEDOW CT E
42-2582 LORRI CHAPMAN 84.40
2542 MEADOWGLEN PL N
46-326 CASEY MCDONOUGH 54.20
3582 EISENHOWER DR E
46-4618 TABLE ROCK BREWERY 223.30
3550 COMMERCIAL CT
46-4654 SHERWIN WILLIAMS 56.00
3410 COMERCIAL CT
•
46-4655 WESTERN IDAHO BUILDERS 246.00
3410 COMMERCIAL CT
47-74 HOME ART CORP 46.40
4111 DRIFTWOOD DR E
48-3210 INTERMOUNTAIN FARMERS 520.00
2957 E FAIRVIEW AV
50-2 TOM & RHONDA ELLIOTTT 45.60
16 PINE AVE E
50-12 PAUL SMITH 77.20
29 E STATE AV
50-54 ROBERT BURKETT 47.32
221 E STATE AVE
50-208 MITCHELL D WILSON 103.75
338 STATE AV E-1 N
50-226 JAMES HOWELL 152.00
234 AVE E &236
50-228 TIMOTHY MORGAN 61.40
41 E CARLTON AV
50-354 DENIMS CARSTENSEN 96.95
416 E CARLTON E
50-1016 CURTIS & VIVIAN WATSON 76.40
1420 2 1/2 ST E
50-1020 TECO INVESTMENT 74.80
301 GRUBER AVE E
50-1512 PHIL ASHBAUGH 70.80
1505 1ST ST E
50-1910 GROVER BROWN 69.40
1578 N PENRITH PL
50-2036 KATHY & GUADALUPE RIVEERA 66.20
957 W WENTWORTH ST
•
50-2108 GARY & MICHELLE CASELLA
1284 N STONEHENGE WY
50-2300 XAY ATH&JUNE
1130 N STONEHENGE WY
50-2302 KEN TODD
1159 E SHELLBROOK DR
50-2378 DARLENE & RICHARD
1290 E DRUCKER ST
50-3724 STEVE MEISTRELL
995 RALSTON PL N
50-3726 NICKIE MEATTE
989 RALSTIN PL N
50-4486 DAVID W KETTLES
520 PINE AV E.
51-50 AMYX FAMILY LIMITED
37 E BROADWAY AVE
51-314 RICK NORTON
342 E BROADWAY AV
51-450 MURRI'S ELECTRONIC
131 E IDAHO AV
51-988 W EUGENE STRATE
825 E PINE AV
51-3198 STEVEN RYKER
216E3RDST
51-3320 TIMOTHY ZIlVIMER
234 2ND ST E
51-3640 LOREN WHEELER
23 ADA AV E
51-3 820 JEFFREY L CHANCE
342 3RD ST E
47.40
58.60
76.80
58.60
131.20
84.92
104.70
216.00
56.20
139.20
51.40
81.00
116.20
49.40
90.32
51-3970 JENNIFER EVANS
130EADAST
51-4000 ROBERT C VAN HOUTEN
408E 1ST ST
51-4200 PHILIP LORCHER
432E 2ND ST
52-240 KENTUCKY FRIED CHICKEN
677 1ST ST E
65-212 RONALD SHANNON
1801 TIlVIE ZONE DR
69-214 DAN & LORI PERRY
2298 CHESAPEAKE
69-226 KAREN TIMA
2122 S CHESAPEAKE AV
69-412 STEVEN MORGAN
1978 S SPORTSMAN WY
69-444 MATT & PAMELA LIGHTNER
1992 S ELKHOUND AV S
69-524 PAT & BEKKI ELORDI
1082 E PEACOCK ST
69-538 NORMAN & DORIS HAUSKEN
1169 E PEACOCK ST
69-566 LAWRENCE & CEBRA CHURCH
1035 E SHEPHERD ST
69-584 JAMES & CYNTHIA YAMAOTO
1311 W SHEPHERD ST.
69-700 MICHAEL NELSON
1235 E MASTIFF ST
69-776 ERIC & DAWN SANDMEYER
1670 BLACKSMITH PL S
54.20
51.40
98.80
1779.60
57.40
70.80
76.10
47.10
94.00
129.80
117.00
111.20
94.60
58.60
87.00
•
69-808 JAMES BURDORF 48.85
1828 S BLACKSMITH PL
69-1076 DAVID & LAURIE RUPERT 64.90
923 STE MARTIN DR E
69-1588 DOULAS & PATRICIA ROSECRAN 101.40
1728 3RD WY SE
69-1616 ANTONIO ALONSO 180.80
1928 5TH WY SE
69-2298 DIANE LANG 97.00
1895 MARSHWOOD PL S (INCLUDE CK CHG)
74-60 VALERIE ALVES 93.80
343 SW 7TH AV
74-74 DALE HACKING 87.40
781 PENNWOOD ST
74-94 RANDY WINWOOD 77.40
671 PENNWOOD ST
74-114 KARI L WASE 168.20
490 LYNHURST PL
74-324 VALERIE COPELAND 73.00
694 PENNWOOD ST
74-354 MICHAEL & STACY SAUNDERS 76.00
678 HANOVER CT
74-372 LAURA YELTON 67.08
673 FULMER CT
74-416 PATRICIA SIMS 62.40
671 BARRETT ST
74-1082 HAROLD & LOIS MCKEAN 69.80
7 ROSE CL.
74-2332 RAYMOND BOBKO 82.20
173 LYNWOOD CL
r-.
74-2482 DONALD BOGDANSKI
1375 S HEIDI PL
74-2520 DAVID TOLAND
1395 W KIlVIRA ST.
74-2524 THOMAS LOVELL
1353 W KINIlZA ST
74-2596 SONI STARR
375 S PENNANT PL
74-2612 ALVIN IRBY
1001 W KIlVIRA ST
74-2662 DAVID HANSEN
468 S OUTFIELD WY
74-2728 DEBRA OGDEN
1112 CRESTMONT DR
74-2744 KEVIN & SHAWNA
1284 CRESTWOOD DR W
74-2746 JOHN & KATHY FRENCH
1298 W CRESTWOOD DR
74-2850 CHEESBROUGH JAMES G
519 S SPOONBILL AV S
74-2876 TRACY USSERY
1345 W MERGANSER DR
74-2932 DENICE SPECK
13 74 PINTAIL DR W
74-2934 GREGORY C OSLUND
1396 PINTAIL DR W
74-2936 SCOTT NICHOLSON
1416 PINTAIL DR W
74-3000 RICHARD PHILIPS
613 S CANVASBACK WY
52.20
118.20
90.40
81.80
63.40
103.00
71.80
116.80
65.40
91.80
86.00
74.40
54.00
53.00
50.40
TOTAL # TURNOFFS ~.(~
•
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DELINQUENCY FOR OCTOBER
TURNOFF SCHEDULED FOR 10/02/96
MAYOR: This is to inform you in writing, if you choose to, you have the right to a
Pre-determination hearing at 7:30 P.M. , DEC. 3,1996 before the Mayor and the City
Council to appear in person to be judged on the facts and defend the claim made
by this City that your water, sewer and trash bill is delinquent. You may retain
councel. This service will be discontinued on DEC. 11, 1996, unless payment is received
in full. Is there anyone present who wishes to contest their water; sewer and .trash
delinquency? No response.
MAYOR: They are hereby informed that they may appeal or have the decision of
the City reviewed by the Fourth Judicial District Court, pursuant to Idhao Code.
Even though they appeal, their water will be shut off. The amount of the turn off list
is $ 40.442.27
• •
235 $26,917.96 64 $6,695.95
11/15/95 181 $21,043.78 35 $4,271.74
12/13/95 267 $25,869.42 54 $12,519.57
1/10/96 291 $24,366.49 43 $3,521.50
2/17/96 246 $18,874.87 68 $5,347.35
3/13/96 258 $19,934.89 38 $3,154.20
4/10/96 262 $21,055.55 58 $4,701.91
5/15/96 196 $16,980.06 38 $2,713.32
6/12196 263 $19,527.28 45 $3,291.76
7/10/96 217 $16,444.58 64 $5,610.89
8/7/96 137 $13,860.07 98 $9,750.27
9/4/96 142 $16,315.14 96 $10,800.74
10/1/96 173 $20,416.27 138 $16,339.93
11/6/96 225 $26,517.16 65 $7,815.25
12/3/96 364 $40,442.27
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!NYE
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL DECEMBER 3. 1996
The special meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order by Mayor Robert
Corrie at 7:00 P.M.:
MEMBERS PRESENT: Walt Morrow, Glenn Bentley, Charlie Rountree, Ron Tolsma:
OTHERS PRESENT: Will Berg, Wayne Crookston, Gary Smith, Shari Stiles, Claire
Bowman, Allison Miller Gonzalez, Dennis Turner, Chief Bill Gordon:
Corrie: This is a special meeting to hear a presentation from Ada Planning Association.
Mr. Bowman, if you would like to step up to the podium.
Bowman: Thank you very much Mr. Mayor, I have for you copies of the (Inaudible) There
are numbers underneath these to which I will refer to from time to time. Let me introduce
two folks who are here with me tonight to help with the technical background. Allison Miller
Gonzalez from Division of Environmental Quality, and Dennis Turner who is the director
of the Air Quality Board right now. We have come to talk a little bit about air quality and
public hearing and what some current issues are. Looking at some proposed changes in
the program. We get through a little bit later one the folks with whom I am reviewing this
and the mechanism by which any changes will come back to you for specific consideration.
We have air quality concerns in two areas in Ada County, Carbon Monoxide and what we
are going to call particulate matter or PM10. We are designated as anon-attainment, non-
classified area for Carbon Monoxide that means we are almost clean but not quite. We
have had no violations for five years in that arena. We are designated as a moderate non-
attainment area for PM10. That is the middle of three categories of sparsity. In both cases
a State implementation plan or a SIP is required in order to demonstrate air quality
conformity for transportation programs. The link between air quality and my job comes
through those transportation programs and then every transportation program requires an
air quality conformity analysis demonstrating that it at the very minimum does not
contribute to additional pollution in the atmosphere. The consequences of violation of both
the CO and the PM10 standard are health related. The Environmental Protection Agency
primary responsibility is the American health and that is the origin of these rules. I have
put on slides 3 and 4 the primary consequences if these standards are exceeded. They
generally involve increases or increased difficulty for existing problem areas. Under some
circumstances ending in increased mortality. Within Ada County the primary sources of
carbon monoxide are roadway vehicles and area sources. Those area sources come from
a variety of things mostly wood stoves and other similar kinds of things which pump small
amounts of carbon monoxide into the atmosphere from lots of lower, small quantity
sources. As a result the control strategies for carbon monoxide focus on the roadway
vehicles and the area sources along the way. The inspection and maintenance program
tests vehicle exhaust emissions and control devices. Then through Ada Planning
Association we have three additional staff efforts getting involved in CO control strategies
promote transit ridership, supporting car pool and van pool programs and wherever
possible emphasizing alternative travel mode options as new development comes forward.
Meridian City Council.
Special Meeting
December 3, 1996
Page 2
One of our staff meets regularly with the technical crew that reviews development
proposals when they reach the Highway District. To comment on those transit friendly
kinds of components of development proposals. Often before they get to the formal
proposal stage. The structure on slide number 7, the structure of the existing inspection
and maintenance program is an emission test that includes Carbon Monoxide tail pipe
emissions measured at idling speed and a visual verification of the emission control
equipment along the way. Those inspection stations which perform those inspections are
allowed to perform repairs and adjustments that is a structural component of the program
it is called an inspection, repair and adjustment program. And those inspection stations
are licensed by the air quality board. I highlight those three components of it because each
of those gets involved as we look at the potential need for some modifications to the
existing program. For PM10 the comparable local data are not available on the sources
there, actually they are but they are almost 20 years and dramatically out of date. We are
can-ently involved in an effort to update and get current information about what those local
sources are. Nationwide, unpaved roads, miscellaneous and paved roads are the primary
sources of it. Unpaved roads because of the dust that is kicked up into the air directly off
of them. Paved roads because of the dirt that gets deposited on the roadway surface from
winter sanding from summer construction traffic and things like that. And then other
automobile tires beat it and pulverize it and kick it back up into the air as very small
particulates. The miscellaneous category is made up primarily of tail pipe emissions which
under certain environmental atmospheric conditions precipitate out of the atmosphere as
small particulates. The primary objectionable components of tail pipe emissions that do
this are the nitrous oxides, or the oxides of nitrogen, NOX they are often called or
hydrocarbons. I will refer to those as HC one down through here (inaudible) through this
presentation. The current PM10 control strategies emphasize the reduction of wood
buming, you have an ordinance to prohibit wood buming under some circumstances to ban
it. The Highway District and the Idaho Transportation Department both have a sand
minimizing program trying to reduce that. They also both have some experimental work
going on with chemical compound alternatives to sanding. Either to apply it before a road
before a snow comes to prevent freezing on the surface or to apply after and over the top
of ice to eliminate the ice along the way. When sand is applied another piece of the
control strategy is to remove that sand as quickly as possible after its function has been
performed. And then another component is to allow only low and that should be PM
emitting wood stoves to be sold in Ada County. There is an EPA standard that has been
adopted at the standard here locally and your ordinance contributes to that or is one of
several (inaudible) make that applicable county wide. The reason I am here tonight is
because there are reasons why some program modifications need to be addressed. The
number one reason is the growth out paces the benefits of the current inspection and
maintenance program on the carbon monoxide side. You see in those two graphs down
below I will explain in just a minute the specifics of that. We also have to address growth
•
Meridian City Council
Special Meeting
December 3, 1996
Page 3
•
related issues with the particulate matter. And particulate matter itself is different than
carbon monoxide in that it is a Treasure Valley wide problem. Carbon Monoxide issue at
least where we get the high concentrations is really the urbanized core area and it is late
in the afternoon when the sun sets about 5:00 in the evening and you get a lot of cold
starting engines that is the set of circumstances under which carbon monoxide is the worst.
So it is concentrated in the downtown area. However, particulate, one other component
of carbon monoxide is that it disperses very quickly in the atmosphere. A slight wind a
breeze, a little bit of time and it disperses easily. PM10 does not, PM10 are small enough
particles especially ones that are becoming of increasing concern down in the 2 1 /2 Micron
area they get in the atmosphere and they tend to stay there. They only precipitate out as
we breathe them out of the air or as a rain comes through and washes them out of the air
or as a big wind blows an entire air mass out of the valley and moves in a fresh air mass.
As a result the PM problem that we experience in Ada County that you experience here
almost to the same extend that Boise City does is not just an Ada County generated PM
10 issue. A to of it is generated in Canyon County and the natural movement of the air shift
brings that into here still has suspended particles. The total annual miles of travel that
graph number 11 is just used to illustrate and approximate 8°r6 per year increase
compounded over the last ten years in the total number of miles travelled by vehicles that
are subject to the inspection for the carbon monoxide today. Using the transportation and
air quality models we generated slide 12 which is really the one that defines the issues
here. During the decade of the 80's we were still getting large increases or reductions in
carbon monoxide with the combination of the inspection maintenance and testing program
and increases in the emissions control equipment on automobiles. We have reached the
point we think the bottom of that curve already in 1996 in fact are starting back up. In that
we have gotten about all of the benefit we can and we are now feeling the effects of more
people driving more cars. On the other hand the one that goes up and to the right on there
which is the BMT line is vehicles miles of travel in a day. That line continues to go up
pretty dramatically. It is that which defines the issue for automobile related kinds of
pollutants. We have a couple of other issues, slide number thirteen highlights, the third
one especially is not necessarily an issue. I have already mentioned the first, the second
is the public believes and I hear it over and over again that the existing program ought to
provide better value for the dollars that people put into it in some form. Either reduce the
amount of testing make it an every other year option or get better value out of the existing
tests and reduce the cost of them. Plus we have done a good deal, Dennis has actually
done this. A good deal of testing locally with remote sensing devices and we are quite
confident that they have the option to improve pretty substantially the air quality program.
So between Dennis and I and with Allison's council in this we have developed a set of four
strategies. The over view on 14 identifies them increase the efficacy of the existing
program. Address the public perception issues. Add PM, particulate matter testing, and
increase the emphasis on the other efforts that are being done. Slides 15 through 17 are
Meridian City Council
Special Meeting
December 3, 1996
Page 4
•
my attempt to flush out some of the specifics in each of those areas. The first 3 under the
carbon monoxide or CO strategy slide directly relate to you because they are things that
we would require ordinance modification before the Air Quality Board could implement.
First of those is to switch to a test only program. There is significant evidence that shows
when one station does the testing and another different station does the repairs and
adjustments that are needed and any retesting that is needed based upon that you get
much cleaner air as a result. There is a tendency for the focus of the current system to be
to get the vehice to pass the test. The vehicle comes in for an inspection and the goal of
the inspector is really to get the vehicle to pass the test and get it through. They coo
minimal maintenance, minimal repair work on site. On the other hand when you split those
functions one individuals purpose is to test the vehicle another is to fix the vehicle not to
get it to pass the test. And the change in that emphasis reduces carbon monoxide levels.
It increases the efficiency of the engines and we get a measurable reduction in carbon
monoxide just because of the separation of the two functions: A second way to increase
efficacy of the existing program is to add a second engine speed to the test. We are
currently doing an idle only, we anticipate a second one somewhere in the 2500 RPM
vicinity would be appropriate. The third issue is to change from the current licensing
structure to a contractual arrangement with stations to perform the service. Currently
anyone who buys the bar (inaudible) and sends a technician to the classes offered by
Dennis can qualify to be a station. If there is some quality control Dennis has a staff
member who goes out and visits stations along the way. That is an ongoing effort. If you
reverse that relationship and the air quality board issued a request for proposals, stations
bid on some manner of cost per (inaudible) for which they would do this. You accomplish
two things, one is the contractual arrangement itself allows for greater supervision by the
Air Quality Board and second perhaps more importantly is we anticipate the costs would
go down substantially. Perhaps as much as 25°k to 30°~ over where they currently are.
If nothing else were done other than change the relationship from a licensing basis to a
bid basis and the reason is the license fees today, the $12 fee is set by Air Quality Board
members who sit in essentially their board room and decide is $12 reasonable or is $11
reasonable. That is how the decision is made at this point. If you turn that around on a
bid basis you have the station mechanics and owners who are actually performing the test
saying here is what it cost me to perform this test here is what is a reasonable profit for
me, I am willing to do it for this amount of money. Our belief is that cost will be significantly
below where it is today. In the public perception strategies we believe that we need to start
the remote sensing devices to clean screen vehicles. Dennis has the money is his budget
now and the board is contemplating the purchase or lease of several of these vehicles so
we can station them throughout the county. We have already done the research to
indicate that we could we can set standards so that a vehicle passing one of these, on the
fly testing stations right now it looks like it would have to be approximately 3 times in a 30
day span of time and testing below a certain area would then be sent a letter saying gee
•
Meridian City Council
Special Meeting
December 3, 1996
Page 5
•
thanks your engine is clean you don't have to come in for an inspection for X more months
from beyond when you had to or 12 months delayed past when your next inspection was
going to be. That does a great deal to improve public perception it also does a great deal
to remove the vehicles out of the testing stations that are coming through and simply being
passed. I daresay any of you probably have not had a vehicle fail the test in the last 4 or
5 years my guess is. That is unnecessary it is a waste of your time especially when you
are paying $12 to have that happen. So we believe there is a way to do that to reduce that
impact on people who have clean cars. We also believe it is essential to pursue locally
based vehicles which (inaudible) out of County. There is a provision in Idaho that allows
you to register out of county legally but our testing here within the county Dennis has found
that a minimum of 2 to 2.5°r6 of all of the vehicles that we have monitored in our tests here
in Ada County are ones who according to voter registration rolls or homeowners
exemptions actually live in Ada County and have their vehicle registered out of the County
and don't claim Ada County as their primary source of residence. So, they can't be tested
that way or they aren't being tested that way. Ada County Highway District is not getting
its $20 or $25 per vehicle for the registration fee along the way. The last one there I will
comment on test out of County vehicles. This is certainly a piece of what we will be
proposing to do. We have some interest, the City of Nampa has asked me to come over
and, make this kind of presentation and talk to them about what it would take to bring some
testing into Nampa on a trial basis and see how it might work. PM strategies, here is
where we need to begin testing some emissions out of tailpipes and the hydrocarbon and
nitrous oxide arenas. It would also be appropriate to test diesel vehicles and do that PM
testing throughout the Treasure Valley. Because PM is the Treasure Valley wide
problems, CO really is not but PM 10 is. Then in the other strategy slide we would be
looking at further reducing the application of sand to roadways, minimize construction of
new dirt roads and then a second arena where the City of Meridian would be asked to take
some action at some point if this is the final recommendation adopted by the APA Board,
minimize construction related dust. You do some components of this already. We would
be looking at a package that includes hauling dirt and gravel in covered vehicles to and
from construction sites. Increase the construction site application of water and do some
kind of grading on the entrance and exit points to construction sites so that mud on tires
gets knocked off before it gets out on the road and pulverized and beaten by automobiles
ties and kicked up into the air then. The activities that we are doing right now we have
already had a review with the Air Quality Board we will have one with the inspection
maintenance station owners next week. I reviewed this tonight with the Garden City
Council already. With you I will be doing City of Eagle, Kuna and Boise within the next
couple of weeks. I will be doing the County commissions for both Canyon and Ada county.
And the Highway District for ACHD and for the Nampa Highway District in January after
their new commissioners come on board. Finally then I will take from those a set of
comments which I received either in a presentation environment like this or one which you
Meridian City Council
Special Meeting
December 3, 1996
Page 6
C~
could take under advisement and give me back in writing or some other way. I will be
taking a set of recommendations to the APA board in February for their action. That is the
time in which they would then direct me to then come back and seek some specific
ordinance changes if that is the wish of the board. So on slide 20 I have highlighted
specifically the actions that we would potentially asking the City of Meridian to take that,
would be what I would like to focus your discussion on tonight if we have any time left and
are willing to use it. That way probably more importantly as you get into a work session
or personal discussion someplace and then get something back to me in the way of
information either through your Board Representatives to the APA board or through me.
I really don't care which. With that I would certainly entertain questions.
Corrie: Does Council have any questions for Claire?
Rountree: Claire, on the proposed actions, I know they are proposed at this point in time
and not to say yea or nay on any of them but they would all require some kind of
enforcement in terms of making them work. Is there any thought given to how the City like
Meridian, Eagle possibly Kuna would implement something like that, what is the funding
mechanism. Is that through the inspection program or the City has to pick it up or how do
we do that?
Bowman: Mr. Mayor, Charlie, the current program is a $12 maximum fee that the air quality
board allows. A station performs the test and collects $12 or something less than that. We
have a few doing it for $11 but not very many of them. The station then is required to remit
$2.75 to the air quality board with the form and the data when they send it in on computer
disk. That is how the Air Quality Board is funded by $2.75 off each of those tests.
(Inaudible) the enforcement mechanism is the same today as we would anticipate in the
future. That is there is a provision in the Idaho State code that allows the recision of
licenses and titles, registrations in the event that a vehicle refuses to comply or does not
comply and does not bring the vehicle into compliance. In the new model we would be
looking at a much smaller fee, a fee in the vicinity of $5 to $6 instead of $12 being put on
as a component of the registration fee. We already have the legislation drafted, it is going
through review at the Idaho Transportation Board now and our Board executive committee
will review it Friday morning. That would add a $5 or $6 fee whatever we come up with, $7,
seta $7 maximum set by the Air Quality Board on an annual basis at something up to or
less than that. That would be collected when the registration is processed by the State of
Idaho, the Idaho Transportation Department. We have a concurrence of the folks within
ITD who would have to do that collection that is an okay way to handle that piece of it. I
believe that we will have their cooperation and the support of that legislation. That would
be a piece of this because the folks who would get the remote sensing device clean screen
still need to pay a share in order to make the whole thing work financially. But we believe
•
Meridian City Council
Special Meeting
December 3, 1996
Page 7
•
we can cut the cost of the whole program down to about half of what it currently is. We
may not be able to do that and handle the hydrocarbon testing or excuse me the nox
testing. The NOX seems to require (inaudible) based test and that is another $25,000 to
$30,000 per station investment. So if we do that the cost is going to be back up around I
guess $8 or $9. So we'll have to look at exactly how that recommendation comes back
from the Ada Board for answer, excuse me for a long answer to a short question.
Rountree: Has the remote sensing technology been accepted by EPA as a strategy or is
that in the process?
Bowman: Mr. Mayor and Charlie the remote sensing technology has not been accepted
as a one time direct replacement for the stationary. But the concept of building a threshold
based on data that says we can guarantee this vehicle under these conditions is at least
as clean as it would have been under the stationary test. Yes that (inaudible).
Cowie: Claire, what is the time frame that you would like to have some recommendations
back to the City.
Bowman: I will be trying to take a set of recommendations to the APA Board in February
that would mean by the first week in February it would be preferable to have responses
from the City of Meridian.
Cowie: Before that time?
Bowman: Before that first week in February.
Tolsma: These contracts you are going to do with the vendors to provide these (inaudible)
they are not going to do any repair work then?
Bowman: Mr. Mayor and Ron, under the strategy we have proposed the package we have
proposed here that is correct. The station owners themselves will not do the repair work.
There would be a set of stations doing test only then we still would have to have the
stations where someone could take a vehicle for repair and we would have to have retest
stations which might be licensed much as they are today. So that one group would
specialize in just doing the testing. The repairs would then be done elsewhere and the
retesting could be done as a convenience then at the place someone does vehicle repairs.
Cowie: Any questions of Dennis or Allison.
Bowman: Thank you very much, I appreciate the time and look forward to your comments.
C~
Meridian City Council
Special Meeting
December 3, 1996
Page 8
Corrie: Thank you very much, thank you Allison and Dennis for being here tonight. I will
close the special hearing it is now 7:30, I guess I need a motion to adjourn.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I motion to adjourn the special meeting.
Rountree: Second
Corrie: Motion made and seconded we adjourn the special meeting, all those in favor?
Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
MEETING CLOSED AT 7:30 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
APPROVED:
ATTEST:
WILLIAM G. BERG, JR.~C
``\`\\\\\tttt I I t 111111t1c1/-/-~-/,'',''''
``` ~` J ~ ~WNC h ~~i
"GGII
CLERK
- SQL '
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/I(Itl
OFFICIALS • HUB OF TREASURE VALLEY •
WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., City Clerk A Good Place to Live
JANICE L. GASS, City Treasurer
GARY D. SMITH, P.E., City Engineer CITY OF MERIDIAN
BRUCE D. STUART, Water Works Supt.
JOHN T sHAwcROFT, waste water supt.
DENNIS J. SUMMERS, Parks Supt. 33 EAST IDAHO
SHARI L. STILES, P & Z Administrator MERIDIAN, IDAHO 83642
PATTY A. WOLFKIEL, DMV Supervisor (208) 888-4433 • FAX (208) 887-4813
KENNETH W. 80WERS, Fire Chief
W.L. "BILL" CORDON, Police Chief Public WorksBuilding Department (208) 887-2211
WAYNE G. CROOKSTON, JR., Attorney Motor Vehicle/Drivers License (208) 888-4443
ROBERT D. CORRIE
Mayor
NOTICE OF SPECIAL MEETING
COUNCIL MEMBER
WALT W. MORROW, President
RONALD R. TOLSMA
CHARLES M.ROUNTREE
GLENN R. BENTLEY
P & Z COMMISSION
JIM JOHNSON, Chairman
KEITH BORUP
JIM SHEARER
GREG OSLUND
MALCOLM MACCOY
NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that the City Council of the City of Meridian will hold
a Special Meeting at City Hall, 33 East Idaho, Meridian, Idaho, on Tuesday, December 3,
1996 at 7:00 P. M. The Meridian City Council will hear a presentation by Ada Planning
Association.
The public is welcome to attend.
DATED this 27th day of November, 1996.
WILLIAM G. BERG, JR. CI ERK
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wit~~heart and circulatory diseases
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•
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~ Northern Ada County Is Currently Designated
As Non-Attainment For:
- Carbon Monoxide (CQ) -- [Non-Classified]
- Particulate Matter Less -Than 10 Microns in
Diameter (PM,~ --[Moderate]
:= _~
~ A Implementation Plan (SIP) For
'' R:~t~~d In~rder To Demonstrate Air
"~ ~Confonnit~ d portatioriProg,„_
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~~ ; ~t,,~~t~~er~ees at .~~~
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- S ' al a.ixl cellular changes, in the
-with cardiovasEUlar aad_ ~;..,.:;
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- Test vehicle EXhaustvEnaisS10I15 attd IItPd~„`
Devices (UM Program) -:
js
- Pr " Transit Ridership in All Planning
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.~ • ,3t~~Car=Pool and Van-Pool Programs ~~.
,~
~• Emphasize Alternative TraveI~Mode Optio~in'=
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New Devet`opinerit - 4, >~
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} - Emission Test_ dudes u _
• CO Tail Pipe°F~nussions MeasuredFat Idling
Speed:
• Visual Verification of Required Emission
Control Equipment
- Inspection Stations Are Also Allowed To ;: ~~,
Perform Repairs and Adjustments a ~"
,.
• lotion Statio Are Licensed :by Air
a ~ty B ~ :ate
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-` c~~~w ions pMoDU t` ~~''
- M' ~ ~;ze Sand Application on Roadways.
- R ~ e Roadway Sand Promptly From Maj
;~ . ` ghfares~.~- ~..~~~~
s~ ` PM ~~..-a . .
- ~Al~at~nly. w ~-Erri~ttin~'V~~ooc
~~ -`To Be Sold un .~
~~~
~~ -
9
TC~T
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1885 1888.1987 1988 1989 1890 1991 7992 1893
a . Years
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~ Comparable Luca! Data'Are Beu~ _ ; ' ~'°
Natural Sources Potrtt and Aroa .~
1096 4'A.
;~~ ';' Unpaved Roads
x, <~ F
w.. 31% - ~.
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8
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~~w~~Ts~tSut=Pacutg Benefij~ ~ '~ ~'
ro rr::r r n ,n'~,,.~-~ rs ~` -
`Pfogram
• -Related Increases in PM Also Have
Addressed -
`~"~~" Now"A-`t`reasure 'alley Issue
"~ ~ ~ . in CO and Piv~ini _ !
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10
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Q~~~ Y~~ ~ r ~ _ ,~
-)~uture Reductions in CO -From .Fleet ~ -
Modernization Will Be Small
- Public-Believes I/M Program Should Provide.
Better Value for Each Dollar Spent
- New Technologies Such As Remote Sensing ~ `~
Devices (RSD) MaySubstantially Improve, e>
}} Existing Program ~" _..
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13
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- Switch~tQ' ~~lY: Program."~ ~~~ ~~ ~~ ;.
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- Include Two~Engine Speeds
- Co ~ ~ `~ t With Vendors to Provide Emissions
,
.Current Waiver Policy and R
"~~- Re~
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- Test Hydrocarbon (HC) Emissions ~ :'~ ,
- Test Oxides of Nitrogen (NOx) Emissions
- Test Diesel Vehicles ,_
,, i
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Test Throughout Treasure Valley. ~- ~ ,~ I,
- - 5 - i
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-~ I~rease Efficacy of Existing CO Te'stuig ~ ~' °~
- Address Public Perception Issues of I/M
Program
` - .Incorporate PM Testing into I/M Program
W,
- Increase Emphasis, on Other`Efforts _
14
- ~7's~ RSI~ to `Clean Screen' Veht~s
L~~,
- Inc ~ Effort to Pursue Locally-Based
Ve Which Illegally Register Out-of-
h a `Smoking Vehicle' Hotline
„ Y*~~
~ Op ` i est to Exist ~o ,
16
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- I~ed~'` ~ Ilcation of Sand tci Roa
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- Minimize Construction ofNew Dirt Roads
- Mit~nize Construction-Related Dust:
• aul Dirt and Gravel--Only in Covered
. 'Trucks ~L ~:
• =Increase Construction-Site Application o,~f } T~
__ _
Wafer ~~.
~~ • Clean Vehicle Tires upon Exii-from ~~-X~,~N'
CUnStrUCtlofl $1teS =~~
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17 18
~~ T ~A~TIVITIE~
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-, Review With Air Quality Board
- Review With UM Station Owners
- Review With All Ada County Councils and
Commissioners
- Review With Canyon County Commission and ~>
Councils of Nampa and Caldwell ~' ,
__:.-- ,~
' Return S ~ of Recommendatio
APA
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:~. ~ - ~~ .
19
~:~~~as~D ~~A~~lo r ~~
~~ ~ ~:,~~~",~_..T .,.,
The.- G><ry of .Meridian
- Modify AQ Ordinance. to:
• Add PM as program component
• Contract with vendors
• .Test 2 engine speeds
• Restruc~re as.test-only program
- Adopt new ordinancnto:
• ,Require gravel and dirt loads to Ue covered
• Require construction site sprinkling aid ":nom- . ,
entrance fit grating ;~~~
~~~ =~
20