HomeMy WebLinkAbout2007 08-21Meridian City Council Meetin4 August 21.2007
A meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:00 P.M., Tuesday,
August 21, 2007, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, Keith Bird, Joe Borton, Charlie Rountree,
and David Zaremba.
Others Present: Bill Nary, Will Berg, Anna Canning, Len Grady, John Overton, Mark
Niemeyer, and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X David Zaremba X Joe Borton
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: I will go ahead and start tonight's meeting. Thank you all for joining us
tonight. And, in particular, thank you to Troop 128 for being with us. Good luck on your
merit badge. We will start tonight's meeting with roll call attendance.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance by Sarah "Pickle" deHaro and Sydney Lydon-
McCoy:
De Weerd: Item No. 2 is our pledge. Tonight we will be led in our pledge by two young
ladies and before I call them up to lead us in the pledge I would tell you -- I would like to
tell you why they are here as our special guests. I would like to bring to your attention
the action of these two young ladies, Sarah, who is also known as Pickle deHaro and
Sydney Lydon-McCoy. I know the McCoy part, but I didn't know the other hyphenated
thing. Last winter Pickle and Sydney were in Tully Park and they witnessed vandalism
in our park and being the quick thinkers that they are, they used their digital camera and
took pictures of the boys that were doing damage to the girls bathrooms. They also had
recognized these boys were from Sawtooth Middle School and so they downloaded
their pictures and took it to the SRO at their middle school. From these photos the
young men were identified and, actually, have been held accountable to the damage
that they did to our restrooms. It would have been very easy for these two young ladies
to look the other way and ignore it and I think that it took a great act of heroism and
maturity to really step up and do the right thing. So, I guess in the midst of some of the
vandalism we get in our parks and it being an easy target and it's easy to not put
yourself in harm's way because you don't want to be the -- in that kind of awkward
situation and I have asked these two young ladies to join us tonight and lead us in the
pledge and just let them know we value their citizenry and their willingness to step up
and be part of a great solution. So, please, join me and rise in the pledge of allegiance.
Meridian City Council
August 21, 2007
Page 2 of 67
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
De Weerd: Girls, if you will come forward for just a moment. Usually Councilman Bird
always gives candy to those that lead us in the pledge. Tonight I will give you one of
our City of Meridian pins and also just a small token of our appreciation and thank you
for being here and leading us in the pledge.
Item 3: Community Invocation by Ken Redford with Meridian Friends
Church:
De Weerd: Is Ken Redford here with us tonight? Thank you for joining us. Item No. 3
is our community invocation. Tonight we will be led by Ken Redford with the Meridian
Friends Church. Please join us in the community invocation or take this as an
opportunity for a moment of reflection.
Redford: Our Heavenly Father, we are reminded tonight of what a joy and a privilege it
is to live together in community. Thank you for the reminder that Pickle and Sydney
have given, that it is not just a joy for us, but a responsibility to live together this way.
For these Council members, for our leaders, for our Mayor, we ask, Lord, for your
wisdom, for your blessing. We think of the many hours of preparation that have gone
into this meeting and the decisions to be made and we are grateful for the years of
experience here and the wisdom that's reflected. Pray that you would also be with each
of our other city servants, for the police and fire department, and those who work in
offices and in different capacities. We want to pause together and say thank you for this
and ask for your leadership in Christ we pray, amen.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Redford. If I can also offer a City of Meridian pin to you for
leading us this evening.
Item 4: Adoption of the Agenda:
De Weerd: Okay. Council, Item No. 4 is adoption of the agenda.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we approve the agenda as published.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and second to approve the agenda as published. Now,
that's a first.
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August 21, 2007
Page 3 of 67
Bird: That is a first. There is no resolutions, there no ordinances, there is no changes.
De Weerd: All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 5: Consent Agenda:
A. Agreement to Hookup to City Services, Property outside City
Limits - 4270 East Overland Road:
B. Public Works Change Order No. 2, Water and Sewer
Improvements in Conjunction with ACHD West 1s Street,
Washington to Cherry Road Project for a cost of $33,235.00:
C. Water Main Easement Agreement for Qdoba Retail Shell (Eagle
Road) by Blue Marlin Investments, LLC:
De Weerd: Item 5, the Consent Agenda.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve the Consent Agenda as published and for the Mayor to sign
and Clerk to attest on all papers.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda as
presented. If there is no discussion, Mr. Berg, will you, please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 6: Department Reports:
A. Mayor's Office
1. Discussion of Joint Platform Proposal for Youth in the
City of Meridian:
Meridian City Council
August 21, 2007
Page 4 of 67
De Weerd: Thank you. Item 6 under department reports, the Mayor's office. I'm
pleased to recognize two guests that we have here with us tonight. Actually, three that I
see. Discussion of the joint platform proposal for youth in the City of Meridian. You
have a platform in front of you that is put out by the National League of Cities in regards
to strengthening families and children. Two of our organizations here in the city, the
Mayor's Youth Advisory Council and Meridian's Promise, have looked at this platform
and have -- each of these organizations have taken actions of their own to adopt certain
-- the platform in and of itself, as well as this pledge, three different actions items to
support and enhance it in our community and with us tonight is RoAnne, who is the
chair of the Mayor's youth Advisory Council and Joey, who is the executive director of
Meridian's Promise, and perhaps you two can come forward and talk about the process
that your different entities went through to identify the action items and say a few words
to Council. So, RoAnne, do you want to start?
R. De Weerd: All right. Representing the Mayor's Youth Advisory Council, we
appreciate all of your support that you guys have given us throughout the years.
Bird: Name and address.
R. De Weerd: Oh. RoAnne de Weerd, 2621 North Miranda Avenue. Okay. I'm asking
you guys to step in support a little further and pass this joint resolution and believe in
our concrete action items, which include united high schools to engage and provide
youth with a voice, hosting, promoting, and partnering in community events for the
purpose of strengthening families in our community and, thirdly, sustaining a healthy
community by offering safe outlets for youth and encouraging positive life choices. We
came up with number one because all Meridian high schools take part and even some
of the middle schools in our community service and I feel that we give them voice -- we
all have equal voice, we get to speak with you guys, we get to go to conferences all
around the United States and I feel that's a very powerful tool for our youth in Meridian.
We host and promote many community service events in Meridian throughout the year
and that brings families together. Not only does it bring the youth and unite our high
schools, but it brings the families together as a sense of partnership between the youth
and the older parents and we have chosen the third, because with all of these
subcommittees, youth boards, community service events that we get to put on, that is
healthier than going out doing drugs and -- so it provides very safe outlets in our
community and so we are asking for your support with our concrete action items and
that's the report from the Mayor's Youth Advisory Council.
De Weerd: Now, RoAnne --
R. De Weerd: Yes.
De Weerd: -- I was surprised you didn't do your plug on your one community service
project that is on Saturday.
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August 21, 2007
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R. De Weerd: Okay. Well, I guess I invite all of have guys for our No Place Like No
Place on Saturday. I wish I had the literature with me, but 5:00 o'clock --
De Weerd: To 9:00 o'clock.
R. De Weerd: -- Centennial Park, to 9:00 o'clock, and we are going to have a battle of
the bands, a soup line, and it's for the whole family, so we are raising money for Habitat
for Humanity, so bring the whole family out. Thanks.
De Weerd: And, Council, I know you have probably heard me say this before, but this
event on Saturday is a fundraiser for Habitat for Humanity and it will be the first Meridian
build. This will be the first habitat home in our community. Last year the youth council
stood in front of you and talked about their -- what was it titled last year?
R. De Weerd: There Is No Place or --
De Weerd: There Is No Place Like Homeless.
R. De Weerd: Homelessness. Uh-huh.
De Weerd: And that's when Mr. Hubble was in our audience. He stepped forward and
donated a lot and it is on that lot that we will have our first Meridian home built and it
was funds raised by kids and it will be built by kids. The Meridian School District
construction class will be the builders of the home. The horticulture class will be the
landscapers of this home. So, it's a project by youth and it's for a family that has been
selected by Habitat. They are in the midst of trying to raise 75,000 dollars and they
hope to get there because this project is due to start this fall. So, thank you, RoAnne.
R. De Weerd: Any questions about our concrete action items or the event on Saturday?
Okay.
De Weerd: Thank you. Joey.
Schueler: Madam Mayor, Mr. President, Members of the Council. Joey Schueler.
Address 4206 West Fairmont Street, Boise, Idaho. 83706. And it's appropriate that the
invocation was about community and that we have two youth representing today what
kids can do. Another group of kids representing what kids are also capable of doing in
the community, because that's exactly the purpose of this joint resolution is for us to
stand as a community and say that kids are important and that they mean a lot and I
know 1 don't have to tell you this, because I have seen each and every one of you do
that in our community, but I did want to make sure that we really stated clearly what
Meridian's Promise's goals are, as well as an action item within this joint resolution. Our
mission is to empower Meridian's youth to succeed in the future and with champions like
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August 21, 2007
Page 6 of 67
Madam Mayor Tammy de Weerd we are able to do that every day out in our
communities and one thing I have observed as the club director for the Boys and Girls
Club is that there are a lot of things that can be done better when different sectors of the
community come together to do them. Any one entity by itself does good things, but
when you share that passion with everybody else it becomes an unstoppable force and
that's what Meridian's Promise is here to do, to unite the city through parks and rec, we
have Planning and Zoning, and, of course, the Mayor's office with places like churches
and not-profit organizations and the library, things like that, when they come together
and do things we are able to do it better. And so we want to make sure we fill in those
gaps for kids and approving this resolution is a valuable step in that process, so another
thing is to encourage funding sources for the non-profit sector to see the value behind
what they do when they invest in the long-term asset that are our youth. So, we would
also ask you to support us in that endeavor and also to establish and support a
mentoring initiative. We have Big Brothers, Big Sisters, they are very active in this
valley. In fact, I know, Mr. President, you are big -- we want to continue to support that
here in Meridian and choose that as one of our goals as well. So, I know your time is
precious and I will close with that, but I would just ask that you support us in our goal to
make sure our kids have what they need in this city. Any questions for me?
De Weerd: Thank you.
Schueler: Thank you all for your time.
De Weerd: Council, I guess the platform in front of you and the subsequent discussion
has been for your information. We'd like to put this on the agenda next week for your
support and adoption. Certainly you can support the six action items that have been
adopted by the Mayor's Youth Advisory Council and the three adopted by the Meridian's
Promise and/or you can add your own, so however you would like to approach this,
that's the direction I'm seeking tonight with the caveat to move this forward to next
week's agenda for adoption.
Bird: That's what i would recommend.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, that would be my recommendation. Move it forward.
De Weerd: Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thank you for joining us tonight.
B. Public Works Department
1. South Meridian Reimbursement Agreements for Water 8~
Sewer:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 6-B under Public Works. I'll turn this over to Len.
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August 21, 2007
Page 7 of 67
Grady: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, tonight's request is a little bit unusual.
You have received an agreement for -- a reimbursement agreement for lines A-1 and B
as shown on the map here just a few minutes ago. I know you haven't had a lot of time
to read it over, but the city attorney has read it over, I have read it over, and I think we
are -- we are in a position where we would like to get approval with that reimbursement
agreement and move towards construction. I understand from the city attorney's office
there are some minor corrections, mostly cosmetic, nothing substantial that needs to be
done, and we are still lacking signatures from the developers for line A-1 and B. So,
what I'm asking tonight is for a resolution to approve these two reimbursement
agreements that will take that Black Cat Trunk to Stoddard prior to getting -- prior to
getting signatures from the developers. I'd like to give them a short time frame to get
that signed and, then, get it to the Mayor later this week. Highly unusual, like I say.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird.
Bird: Len, I have no problem -- I don't think we need a resolution, we just -- to agree
upon these agreements. I have no problem, as long as you and the legal department
feel comfortable with it and the people that we are entering into agreement with have no
problem with it, of making a motion to approve this and for the Mayor to sign and the
Clerk to attest once these are signed --
Grady: Yes.
Bird: -- by the other party.
Grady: They have to be signed by -- yeah.
Bird: We would be the last signatures. I have no problem doing that, if that's what you
want, if that's what you're asking for.
Grady: That's what I'm asking for.
Bird: Unless the rest of the Council --
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Do we need a sense from the other potential signatories of how likely they
are to accept the terms?
Bird: I would -- I have no problem. I'd like to hear from Matt and --
Rountree: A couple of them out there.
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August 21, 2007
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De Weerd: What -- maybe I should call on the one pacing in the back.
Schultz: Good evening, Mayor and Council. Matt Schultz. RMR Consulting, 2127
South Alaska. And, yes, Mayor, we are talking about the Bear Creek Park. You always
give me a hard time about -- we are not talking about the Bear Creek Park again, are
we?
De Weerd: We are not talking about trees --
Schultz: Yeah. Trees and all that, but -- no. It's been several years, but I am glad to be
talking about the Black Cat Trunk getting built, because we have been talking about it
for a long time and I know it's much needed and -- and I'm here to say that we have
worked long and hard on getting these agreements signed and I think it's just been
some last second, you know, minor tweaks by the legal department and us coming back
and going, well, what about this, what about that, but I think what we have here is a -- or
I know what we have here is a very signable agreement and we are -- we have had the
contractor on the hook now since June 13 with a bid and so we need to -- we let it out to
bid in early June and we have been anxiously waiting to get this awarded. So, it's not
so much locking in prices, which is important, but if he doesn't order the pipe the
manufacturer is going to give it to somebody else and it's going to take weeks to get a
new batch and so we are really anxious to get this approved and moving down the road.
Now, I would point out that I know the developer South Ridge is anxious to get back in
front of you on this other section as well that's not before you tonight and, hopefully, that
can come back before you soon to talk about how that -- how that might get reimbursed
and it's part of that Overland Road reimbursement -- or realignment with ACRD. I know
that's kind of a priority as well. So, what we would like to have you do tonight, based on
assurances that our agreements are in order, is to -- is to concur with our award of the
bid to Brown Construction and to approve the agreement subject to getting our
signatures and bringing it back before the Mayor here hopefully by the end of the week
to start with the construction of the 30 and the 27 and plus the 27 to start a road from
Overland Road and get moving. There is a minor point I wanted to bring up in the
agreement and Idon't -- it's not a deal killer, but I want to bring it up and see what
Council says -- is there is about 60,000 dollars in what we call, I guess, soft costs above
and beyond the construction costs. That's your engineering, surveying, project
management, fees, permits, all those other miscellaneous costs and we originally had
all those costs as reimbursable in our agreements, because the ordinance is a little
vague, it says off-site is reimbursable, on site it may be, depending on how you interpret
it. We at the last second took all that out because of an interpretation. So, we went
from having it in and all the way out and I'd ask that maybe -- maybe a compromise
would be in the spirit of the cooperative agreement that we split it and go half on it. It
would seem like to be a minor dollar amount of, you know, 50,000, but when we are
kind of tight with the banks and the infrastructure costs -- I mean this is a project that will
be a hundred percent funded by the developers, we will hand over the keys when it's
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August 21, 2007
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done, with a ten percent letter of credit for a one year warranty and say it's all yours. I
mean it will be done a hundred percent, we are financing it -- we are financing all those
costs. So, there is a little vagueness in the agreement and we'd just ask that we -- that
we maybe split those soft costs and it's an easy little tweak to the agreement and other
than that, I think we are -- we are ready to start laying some pipe and get a much
needed sewer line in the ground to take the Ten Mile Trunk -- and it's kind of at a
capacity issue right now, so it will be good to -- not just for my little subdivision -- the
reason I'm involved is I'm managing Shepherd Creek. I'm kind of the canary in the
mine, so to speak, but there is a bigger problem than just Shepherd Creek needing
service, it is the whole south part of Meridian, Tuscany, and some other subdivisions
down there that are temporarily going into the Ten Mile Trunk that need to get taken off
and the city has awarded a section right from here to here recently, they have awarded
that section. And, then, we are only a half mile -- is all we are is a half mile to getting
the whole part of south Meridian cleaned up in terms of the long-term master plan. So,
this is a big chunk of it and we are happy to be involved in getting that done and putting
it out to bid in accordance with your matrix, which reimburses a certain amount for depth
and size and we have done all that properly and I think it's a shining example of a
cooperative reimbursement that, essentially, gets the city what would -- normally they
would pay a hundred percent for for something of this priority, at 70 percent of the cost.
So, I think having a 30 percent reduction is a great way that -- to share that burden and
get some things done in a timely fashion and a good price. So, with that we'd ask for
your concurrence in awarding the bid to Brown Construction and move forward.
Thanks.
De Weerd: Okay. Any questions, Council?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Schultz: Thanks.
De Weerd: Any other comments? No?
Bird: Madam Mayor? Len, you agree with everything Matt said?
Grady: Everything except that -- if there is one clear part of the ordinance it is that on
site engineering costs are not to be reimbursed. There is some ambiguity, but that to
me is a fairly clear portion of the agreement and so I would -- I would not agree with
that. I agree with everything else. I think the agreement that you have in front of us -- I
believe it represents what Matt and Kyle and myself agreed to and that's why I brought it
forward. I'd be reluctant to see it changed.
De Weerd: Okay.
Meridian City Council
August 21, 2007
Page 10 of 67
Bird: I don't disagree with you. Okay.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I have a -- I guess a confusion to me. I think I heard Mr. Schultz use the
word letter of credit and don't we normally take a bond or something? One, I'm not
sure, is there a big difference between those two, but is that a change of policy or is that
-- I mean I'm familiar with us asking for bonds, but did I hear letter of credit.
Grady: Madam Mayor, Councilman Zaremba, we prefer a letter of credit if we can get
one. Bonds we find are difficult at best to cash. When you go to cash a bond, the bank
-- you have to prove to the bank that you're supposed to be cashing it and so you're
automatically adversarial with the bank. A letter of credit you go down and you cash it
and you're done, so it's a much easier, much cleaner instrument, in our opinion. And
that's why we are only asking for the ten percent letter of credit just to cover
maintenance costs. So, it's a minor substitution and we are okay with that.
Zaremba: I guess the reason I ask that is that having been so many years on the
Planning and Zoning Commission, I heard bond, bond, bond. Is this a permanent new
policy that we are doing for everybody?
Grady: You're absolutely correct and certainly if this was a Public Works project we
would be going for a bond, because that's our ordinance. But because the contractor is
doing this and we are reimbursing them, we are taking advantage of a little bit of
flexibility, so --
Zaremba: Thank you.
Grady: Okay.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further questions from Council?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird.
Bird: We would need to do these separately; right? Madam Mayor, if we have no more
discussion, I would make a motion that we enter into a cooperative construction and
reimbursement agreement of 27 inch and 30 inch sanitary sewer trunk line, Overland
Road to Linder Road, between the City of Meridian and Linder 109. This developer.
And for the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest after the developer has signed.
Meridian City Council
August 21, 2007
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Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Before we have --
Nary: Oh, sorry.
De Weerd: --discussion, can I have a second?
Borton: I'll second for discussion.
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Nary.
Nary: And, Madam Mayor, Members of Council, also if you would include in your
motion -- I mean there are some minor changes that both parties need to complete into
this agreement. As long as those get done, then, the developer could sign and, then,
we'd have the Mayor sign.
Bird: That would -- I would include that in my motion that if there is some other
negotiation between the two parties, that that's done and that we sign -- the city, the
Mayor, and Clerk sign after the developer has signed after that has been taken care of.
De Weerd: Does second agree?
Borton: Second agrees.
De Weerd: Okay.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor, further discussion?
De Weerd: Discussion.
Zaremba: Somebody made the suggestion that we also need to specify that the
contract be awarded to Brown Construction. Is that part of this motion or something
separate?
Bird: He's working for them, he's not working for us.
Zaremba: Okay. All right.
De Weerd: I'd rather work for us. Matt, that wasn't a slight. Okay. Any further
discussion?
Rountree: I have none.
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August 21, 2007
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De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Berg, will you, please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Okay. The second agreement?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird.
Bird: I'd move we approve the cooperative construction reimbursement agreement for
27 inch sanitary sewer trunk line, Linder Road to Stoddard Road, between the City of
Meridian, Idaho, and off-site developer of Shepherd's Creek, LLC, and on-site developer
of Tuscany Development, Incorporated, and for the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest
after the developers have signed and upon negotiation of the minor points that's left that
might need to be done.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Mr. Berg, will you,
please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: 1 don't know if it's appropriate, but my question would be about the third
portion that we are not talking about, the section that goes Overland Road the other
direction where we hope it will be realigned, one, I still want to reiterate our support for
ACHD tomorrow at one of their meetings, making that formal. I think this Council in the
past has recognized the importance of that realignment and it is part of our old Ten Mile
area plan and I think in the south Meridian area plan, but I wanted to reaffirm our
commitment to ACHD to have that realigned and, then, I guess that leaves a question
when are we likely to hear about that one, anybody know?
De Weerd: Len.
Meridian City Council
August 21, 2007
Page 13 of 67
Grady: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, like Mr. Schultz said, we are working
towards getting the second leg of the -- the west leg negotiated. We were finding --
even as late as today we were flipping and flopping, so we weren't able to narrow in the
bounds of that agreement. Certainly the city is committed to working with the developer
and working towards a resolution of that. As far as the sewer goes in that -- in that line,
we are in favor of it. We have an easement, the developer is required to put to and
through, so short of just getting this agreement in place, we are not holding anybody up.
So, just wanted to stress that, so --
Zaremba: So, we are still showing to ACHD that we are fully behind this and moving
that direction, I guess. Behind the realignment.
Grady: We -- well, last year Public Works went ahead and worked with the developer to
get an easement. I believe it was even prior to the ACHD meeting, just to show ACHD
that this -- if we are going to put sewer in here, that's where the road needs to go. So,
at least as far as Public Works is concerned, we have finalized that location and that --
that's the support we can lend to this situation.
Zaremba: Great. Thank you.
Grady: So, I'm -- you know, time is -- we haven't been really quick so far, but I think as
far as legal and the agreement itself, I think those terms are already set, so it's really a
question now of fine tuning payback terms and that type of stuff, So, we are committed.
De Weerd: So, I guess, Len, it's possible that could be on our next agenda September
4th.
Grady: It certainly is possible.
De Weerd: Okay.
Grady: We will do our part.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Zaremba: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Anything else, Council?
Rountree: I have nothing.
Bird: I have nothing, Mayor.
Item 7: Items Moved from Consent Agenda:
Meridian City Council
August 21, 2007
Page 14 of 67
De Weerd: Okay. There were no items moved from the Consent Agenda.
Item $: FP 07-024 Request for Final Plat approval for 44 detached single-family
building lots, 24 attached single-family building lots, 2 private street lots,
and 10 common lots on 9.52 acres in R-4 and R-15 zones for Jericho
Subdivision by Heron River Development, LLC - 6055 and 6185 North
Jericho Road:
De Weerd: Item No. 8 is FP 07-024. Anna.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, we do have a letter from the
applicant stating they are in agreement with the conditions of approval and there are no
outstanding issues that we know of before Council.
De Weerd: Okay. Excellent. Council, I would entertain a motion.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Borton: I move we approve Item 8, FP 07-024.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 8. If there is no discussion,
Mr. Berg.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 9: Public Hearing: RZ 07-011 Request for a Rezone of 0.77 of an acre from
C-C to an O-T zone for Shavlee Estates by Tealey's Land Surveying -
1402 & 1414 North Meridian Road:
Item 10: Public Hearing: PP 07-010 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of
office building lots, 6single-family residential building lots and 1 common
lot on 0.77 of an acre in a proposed O-T zone for Shavlee Estates by
Tealey's Land Surveying - 1402 & 1414 North Meridian Road:
Item 11: Public Hearing from June 7, 2007: CUP 07-010 Request for Conditional
Use Permit to construct 6 town homes in a proposed O-T zone that do not
Meridian City Council
August 21, 2007
Page 15 of 67
meet the criteria of the Downtown Meridian Design Guidelines for Shaylee
Estates by Tealey's Land Surveying - 1402 & 1414 North Meridian Road:
De Weerd: Okay. Items 9, 10 and 11 are Public Hearings on RZ 07-011, PP 07-010,
and CUP 07-010. I will open these three public hearings with staff comments.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is the Shaylee Estates project.
It's located not too far north of here. It's on the east side of Meridian, approximately a
quarter mile south of Fairview Avenue. As you can see there is two existing homes on
the site. The applications before you tonight are a rezone, a preliminary plat, and a
conditional application. The proposed development includes the rezone of .77 acres
from CC to OT and a preliminary plat approval of two commercial lots, six single family
residential building lots and one common lot on the property. Concurrently the applicant
requests conditional use approval to construct six townhomes in the proposed OT zone
that do not meet criteria of the downtown Meridian design guidelines. The CUP request
is only for the six easterly single family building lots. Any future renovation of the
existing structures will be done under the requirements of the OT district and will be
subject to compliance with the downtown Meridian design guidelines. The two
redefined westerly lots will have new parking areas developed behind the existing
structures that remain, but the buildings themselves will not be modified. I think the
landscape plan shows it best. You can see the two existing buildings, they are each
about 12 to 13 hundred square feet and it will have a central drive aisle and, then,
cross-access going north-south with the parking off of that and, then, you will enter the
courtyard for the six townhomes. The gross residential density is 7.8 dwelling units per
acre and, then, we will have the two existing residences that will be converted to offices.
And, again, they are about 12 to 13 hundred square feet each. All other structures,
including the detached garage on the site shall be removed prior to development of the
property. And staff has -- or the planning commission has recommended a
development agreement. Some of the site specific requirements of that would be to
really detail the applicant shall comply with the design guidelines for the two office lots,
Lots 1 and 9. And also that the applicant needs to obtain CZC approval for the office in
one of the current homes and he has already submitted that application. And the third
one is with a reference to the CZC. But as I mentioned before, he did submit a
certificate of zoning compliance for Talon Construction already. I do have some
elevations for you and these are of the townhomes. The front elevation faces the
internal courtyard. The west elevation faces Meridian Road. The east elevation will
face the neighbors to the east. Sorry. A little redundant there, but -- the rear elevation
faces both north and south. And these are the two homes -- existing homes that will be
spilled up as they are made into office. The Planning and Zoning Commission
recommended approval at their July 5th Public Hearing. Andrew Davis of BSR
Architects and Mark Johnson and Bond Campbell all spoke in favor. No one spoke in
opposition. Susan Hadley commented on the project. The key issues of discussion by
the Commission were the construction of a private street and sidewalk from Meridian
Road to the townhouse units on the interior lots. Well, it's Lots 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8 and -- of
Meridian City Council
August 21, 2007
Page 16 of 67
Block 1. And the location of trees within the common lot on Lot 5, Block 1, outside of
the future sewer easement -- and let me go up to the -- you can see the landscape plan
shows trees, but that only serves as a sewer easement. The key Commission changes
to staffs recommendation were to modify the condition to state that no new trees may
be located within the sewer easement, however, the trees may be located on a common
lot if they are outside the easement and to strike the condition of approval which
required a 25 foot wide buffer adjacent to Meridian Road. That buffer is not required in
the Old Town district. The outstanding issues for City Council -- we just wanted to give
you the updated and as I mentioned before, we have received that certificate of zoning
compliance already. There has been no additional written testimony since the staff
report and to our knowledge there are no outstanding issues before City Council. And
with that I will answer any questions you may have.
De Weerd: Anna, did you have comment from the MDC?
Canning: MDC was aware of this. They have not provided comment to my knowledge.
I can search through the file. But they -- they were involved in the process and are
aware of it and we have discussed the sewer in general -- the location of sewer along
the back lines and some of the future issues related to sewering the area.
De Weerd: Okay. And did you mention these fall within the design guidelines?
Canning: The design guidelines are written for commercial projects and because these
are residential they don't -- they don't comply and that's the only reason he's applied for
the conditional use. It wasn't for the townhouses. They are a principal permitted use.
The conditional use is because he's not able to meet the design guidelines for the
residences. Let me go back to the site plan one more time, because these residences
are quite a ways from Meridian Road. They are at the back of the site. He not's asking
to be exempt for the existing structures. The thought is that as those redevelop that
those will be brought forward to Meridian Road and developed under the full design
guidelines or the guidelines in effector in place for that property at the time.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none, Madam Mayor.
Rountree: I have none at the moment.
De Weerd: Okay.
Zaremba: Just one and I understand that the current design guidelines don't include
residential, but it would be possible that up and down Meridian Road there might be
more projects that bear a similarity to this. Is MDC thinking of making design --
residential design guidelines that would be appropriate?
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August 21, 2007
Page 17 of 67
Canning: No. We are.
Zaremba: Okay.
Canning: And, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilmember Zaremba, we -
- actually Will Thornton is working on those and we have asked to schedule apre-
Council to go over some of his initial work and get Council's thoughts in moving -- so,
that he can move forward on those. But he's coming up with some great ideas and they
would include residential in this Old Town area. And I do want to point out that this --
this is the elevation that will face Meridian Road and the applicant has dressed this one
up a bit compared to the one that faces to the rear of the lot. They have introduced
some new materials and -- into that.
De Weerd: Okay.
Zaremba: Thank you.
Canning: Sure.
De Weerd: Okay. Is the application here tonight? If you will, please, state your name
and address for the record.
Johnson: Madam Mayor, City Council, Mark Johnson, 12389 West Bowmont in Boise,
Idaho.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Johnson: On behalf of the property here in Meridian, 1402 and 1414, we have -- we
have designed something that we think will be very welcomed for in-fill in the city. I'm
very much in favor of -- and been part of the Meridian Development Corporation design
guidelines and familiar with them and planning on using those for the front two office
sites. The preliminary plat separates those two sites and am very much in agreement to
meet with the city attorney on that part of the agreement. I think this is going to be a
great in-fill and I think we are kind of pioneering something in the Old Town district. I'm
excited about this little project. Hopefully, it's the first of many, so I would be glad to
answer any questions.
De Weerd: Council, do you have questions?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Meridian Ciry Council
August 21, 2007
Page 18 of 67
Rountree: If Mr. Johnson would explain the building to me it would be helpful. Am I
looking at nine units or -- aside or just one -- three single units? What am I looking at?
Johnson: If we can go back to the landscape site plan. Thank you, Anna. The back of
the property is 223 feet deep and so the back half of the residential is two buildings of
three units each. In our original survey that we did we thought we had a sewer line that
was 20 feet off the back of the property. We have now found, after further research --
and we actually found a manhole buried in the weeds back there -- it is pretty much right
on the property line. So, it was kind of funny at the Planning and Zoning that the
members were saying, you know, we have to tell the developer not to put trees in, but,
actually, we worked that out and we -- and that was quite the important part back there,
that common lot was kind of a park setting for the six townhomes. So, again, it's two
buildings, three units each. They are called two story, but they are actually three story
in elevation, the first story being a garage and entry. And we have dressed them up.
We want them to look nice. We want them to be very inviting. We worked with ACHD.
One of their requirements was to put sidewalks across the frontage. We encouraged
that and drew it on our site plan. We want the entrance to be inviting. Wasn't excited
about the private road, but I'm willing to make concessions. The fire department needs
their turnaround and there was addressing concerns that they had that we have
addressed and agreed to.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Borton.
Borton: So, if I'm looking at the garages right, that center courtyard is a concrete drive
aisle?
Johnson: Correct.
Borton: Okay.
Johnson: Correct. The two buildings of three townhomes each face each other and
they -- and with the common lot on the west -- on the east side of the --
De Weerd: Do you want to switch your screen. Thank you.
Johnson: Yeah. The --
Borton: So -- Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Meridian City Council
August 21, 2007
Page 19 of 67
Borton: So, this is concrete?
Johnson: Correct.
Borton: To get into the garages and this is the common area you're talking about?
Johnson: Correct.
Borton: Okay.
Johnson: Separated by an island -- landscape islands separating the parking for the
future office buildings.
Borton: Right here you mean?
Johnson: Correct.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions? Okay. Thank you.
Johnson: Thank you.
De Weerd: This is a Public Hearing. I did have a couple people signed up indicating
their support of this application. Kimberly Johnson signed up for. Would you like to
provide testimony? Okay. And Bond Campbell signed up for as well.
Campbell: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I am -- my name is Bond Campbell.
I live at 9536 West Hillsgate in Star, Idaho. I own the adjacent property immediately
south of these two parcels. So, essentially, Mark is my neighbor to the north. And I did
come to the Public Hearing for Planning and Zoning in support and in support of his
application for this property. He and I both are advocates for the Old Town zone and I
have my own visions for this parcel and they do I think work well with what Mark has
planned for his -- for his use. I don't have the existing structures up front like Mark
does. The little house that sits on this parcel that I own to the south is a little tiny old
house that's been there for a long long time that is ready to retire. So, I would -- my
vision would be for something -- something of a modern new commercial use that would
be along the lines of the Meridian Development Corporation's vision for the Old Town
zone and the structures being right out to the sidewalk and so although my property
would have a little bit different use than what Mark has proposed, I think the two work
together with each other and I guess that's it for my comments.
De Weerd: Okay.
Campbell: I would be, obviously, willing to answer any questions you might have.
Meridian City Council
August 21, 2007
Page 20 of 67
De Weerd: Thank you. Council?
Rountree: I have none.
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: Thank you.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Is your parcel listed for sale right now?
Campbell: It is.
Borton: Okay. All right. Thought so.
Campbell: Yeah.
Borton: Okay. Thanks.
De Weerd: Okay. This is a Public Hearing. Is there anyone else who would like to
provide testimony on this application? Okay. Seeing none, any final remarks from the
applicant? Mr. Johnson? No? Okay.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Having given the public opportunity to testify and heard all comments, I move
we close the Public Hearing on Items 9, 10 and 11.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to close the Public Hearings on Items
9, 10, and 11. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Okay. Any discussion?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
Meridian City Council
August 21, 2007
Page 21 of 67
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I would comment that it appears this would be an excellent addition to the
Old Town area. I'm one of those that always asks for something interesting and
different and this looks interesting and different to me and hope we get more of them.
With that I would make a motion that we approve Item 9, RZ 07-011, to include all staff
comments.
Bird: How about applicant?
Zaremba: Uh?
Bird: How about applicant comments?
Zaremba: Didn't hear you.
Bird: Staff and applicant --
Zaremba: Oh, yes. Staff and applicant comments --
Bird: Second.
Zaremba: -- are acceptable on that one.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 9.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: For discussion and/or direction to staff, I guess I want some assurance that
the DA will get us what we see or something better. I have been flipped one too many
times.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Borton.
Borton: I might take Councilman Rountree's comment one step further and -- all things
being said, it's not an application and presentation that I'm in support of, all things
considered. I think some of the design concerns that Councilman Rountree alludes to
Meridian City Council
August 21, 2007
Page 22 of 67
are great concerns to me and this is a really unique area in what Meridian Road's going
to become and Old Town is going to become and this particular design and the
compacted concrete presentation on these -- on these two lots is an extremely
challenging lot. I see the type of development in this area being facilitated better by
some property assemblage which allows a more diverse type of product. You know, I
have concerns when 1 see -- appreciate a dressed up facade facing Meridian Road. I'm
equally concerned with all fronts, because there is property owners, by way of example,
to the north that will at one point redevelop and be facing that facade and on the south
as well, as we have heard. So, it's not something that I'm in a rush to redevelop in light
of some of the designs, concerns, and property assembly and opportunities that there
are to the area. So, I appreciate any desire to improve and update any Old Town
property, but I'm not comfortable going forward with what's presented.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further discussion? Mr. Berg, will you, please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, nay.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE NAY.
De Weerd: Okay. Item 10.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I move we approve PP 07-010, again, including all staff comments and the
applicant's comments.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to approve Item 10. Is there any
discussion? Mr. Berg.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, nay.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE NAY.
De Weerd: Okay. And Item 11. Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor, I move that we approve CUP 07-010, again, to include all
staff comments and the applicant's comments.
Bird: Second.
Meridian City Council
August 21, 2007
Page 23 of 67
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and second to approve Item 11. Mr. Berg, will you,
please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, nay.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE NAY.
De Weerd: Thank you. I guess to staff, the sooner we can get this workshop and some
of Will's ideas on design in front of Council, it kind of reminded me of something that we
saw at 2nd 1/2 Street that was a little bit similar. This is better, but similar to some of
the comments by Mr. Borton. So, we will work on getting that scheduled.
Item 12: Public Hearing: AZ 07-009 Request for Annexation and Zoning of
22.67acres from R1 to C-G Zone for Queenland Acres by James Prather
- Southeast Corner of South Stoddard Road and West Overland Road:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 12 is a Public Hearing on AZ 07-011. I will open this Public
Hearing with staff comments.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is the Queenland Acres project.
It's located on the southeast corner of Stoddard Road and Overland. The applications
before you tonight are just for annexation and zoning. The proposed development is
annexation and zoning of 22.67 acres to C-G. The applicant has submitted a
conceptual development plan -- or plans that show approximately 125,000 plus or minus
square feet for a big box retail building and, then, three mid range box retail sites that
are about 20,000 square feet and, then, two 6,000 square foot building pads and one
10,000 square foot building pad. So, we have got the large box, the three that are
about 20,000 square feet and, then, the smaller pads out toward the front and this is the
10,000 square foot pad. There is an existing -- the plan also shows access points to
Stoddard Road and Overland Road and the extension of an existing stub street to this
property from Bear Creek Subdivision from the south. So, there is a stub street from
Bear Creek. The southern part of this property has been zoned for some time. It's the
northern portion that is primarily coming in and it has been zoned commercial. It's
getting to look like I might have misspoken. Was this the one that wasn't zoned after
all? Okay. I'm sorry. There was confusion. It's been on our zoning maps for years, but
it actually wasn't annexed. So, this is the annexation for the full property. I apologize
for that confusion there. Okay. So, back to Alaska Street. This was done -- the stub
street, when it was put in there, we thought this property was zoned as commercial, is I
guess what I should say. So, staff has advocated for that stub street to be continued
and you will hear a lot about that tonight, I believe. I did want to take a moment to talk
about that. The granting the public cross-access to -- from Alaska Street will allow the
public from Bear Creek Subdivision to access the commercial uses on the site and
would insure that that drive aisle access could not be closed in the future. Staff is
concerned about creating a vehicular path that would encourage cut-through traffic, but
Meridian City Council
August 21, 2007
Page 24 of 67
we think this one's designed so that it would not do that. We have received a letter and
petition with 236 signatures by the Bear Creek Homeowners Association in response to
this application. The letter requests that the City Council either vote in opposition to or
consider a more compatible zoning for the proposed development to provide more of a
transition and zoning between the proposed commercial uses and the existing
residential properties. I do have some photos that are illustrative of the big box that's
being proposed and some of the mid size -- mid size retail stores. And, finally, the
pads. So, we don't have elevations, but we do have concept photos. This is to illustrate
the buffer and I'll let the application explain that one. These are examples of a
landscape buffer behind Target on Chinden and Eagle, adjacent to a residential
neighborhood. The Commission recommended approval at their July 19th Public
Hearing. James Prather and Scott Stanfield spoke in favor of the application. Jim
Kouril spoke in opposition and no one commented. We received written testimony from
Brian Beckly, who is the vice-president of the Bear Creek Homeowners Association and
that testimony included a petition with those 236 signatures. We also received written
testimony from Scott Anders and Aaron Neil. The key issues of discussion by the
Commission were the dual landscape buffers bisected by a drive aisle along the south
property boundary adjacent to the residential homes, with a 60 foot building setback.
They also discussed the location of loading docks for buildings along the south property
boundary. They discussed requiring a block wall along the south property boundary.
And they talked about restricting uses along the southern portion of the property to only
those uses allowed in the C-N zone. And, finally, they discussed the extension of
Alaska Street from Bear Creek Subdivision into the site. The key Commission changes
to staffs initial recommendation were that they required a minimum 60 foot wide
separation between the residential uses along the southern property boundary and the
rear of all buildings. So, it would be a 60 foot setback from the rear -- the southern
property line. Within the 60 feet there was to be a 25 foot wide landscape buffer and,
then, a drive aisle and, then, an additional buffer at the rear of the buildings, with an
allowance for access to loading areas for small retailer buildings on the southeast
portion of the site. So, they did allow for some loading for the three smaller ones, but
not for the large box. They required the applicant to replace the existing fence with the
property owner's consent along the southern boundary of the site with a six foot tall
concrete block wall. And they required the building pad proposed on the corner of
Stoddard and Overland to be situated so that the parking is evenly disbursed around the
front, rear, and sides of the building, as shown on the concept plan, or situated closer to
Overland Road, similar to the structures depicted on the northeast corner of the site.
So, basically, they said one row of parking in front of the building is okay, but no more.
Finally, they did not require Alaska Street to be extended into the site as a public or
non-public street, but they did require Alaska to be used as an emergency access point
and a pedestrian pathway into the site. Outstanding issues for City Council. ACRD and
city staff would prefer that Alaska Street be extended into the site for vehicular use.
And, again, the Commission requested that Alaska Street not be extended. And, finally,
the outstanding issue for City Council would be the appropriate zoning designations for
this property. There is a DA proposed. The site specific provisions of that DA include
Meridian City Council
August 21, 2007
Page 25 of 67
that prior to issuance of the CZC that we need recorded documents granting vehicle
cross-access and cross-parking to the Lowe's site just to the east. The DA does still
contain the provision for the public stub street, Alaska Street, and Bear Creek
Subdivision, so we will need to deal with that one one way or the other tonight. The
third one is the access points to or from the site are limited to those shown on concept
plan and as approved by ACHD. The drive aisle legs off the internal full access points
to and from Overland and Stoddard be constructed as shown on the concept plan. Two
building plans shown on the concept plan at the northeast corner of the site should have
no parking stalls between the buildings and Overland Road. The building pad proposed
at the corner of Stoddard and Overland -- so that would be situated so that parking is
evenly disbursed and development of the site shall be generally consistent with the
conceptual building elevations and site plans submitted with this application. Individual
buildings with this in development shall be limited to 50 percent over or under the sizes
shown on the concept plan and the minimum number of buildings allowed on the site
shall be five as shown on the concept plan. The following uses shall be prohibited
along the south portion of the site. Fuel sales facilities, building materials, garden
equipment, and supplies and vehicle washing facilities. Then, prior to issuance of the
first certificate of occupancy construct amulti-use pathway through the site from Alaska
Street. And, finally, the trees that currently exist on the site shall be retained or
mitigated in consultation with the parks department. So, there are several site specific
ones on this DA as you can tell. And with that I will answer any questions Council may
have and Mayor.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor, just an orientation question. Is there a view that also
includes the property around it and would show where the stub street is? Okay. So --
oops. Wrong way. This is Alaska Street, is that what that is?
Canning: Yes.
Zaremba: Okay. That was my question. Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, anything else at this point?
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
Rountree: I have no questions.
De Weerd: The applicant? Good evening.
Prather: Good evening, Madam Mayor, Council -- Councilmen, staff. James Prather.
707 East United Heritage Parkway, Suite 150 in Meridian. Along with me today as well
is Scott Stanfield of Mason Stanfield Civil Engineers and Surveyors. If you have been
Meridian City Council
August 21, 2007
Page 26 of 67
out to this site in the last, oh, week or so or within the last three or four months, you will
recognize it is a mess. Not only is Lowe's being constructed, but we also have
Overland Road being constructed from Meridian west to Linder. There will be a traffic
light, obviously, at Stoddard, but as well there will be a traffic light at the quarter comer.
We have arranged that -- as you have already -- it's already been done, but the owners
of the water park had agreed that we move the -- their entrance from -- it's probably
about 150 feet west, so we could line up with this -- with our property line here. Right
here. So, we will have a traffic light there. We will have one at Meridian, one at the
quarter corner, and, then, one at Stoddard. And, then, hopefully, in a couple of months
all that -- all that will be finished, So, again, it's 22 and a half acres. All we are here for
is zoning and annexation this evening. Anna, could you just roll it forward one, please.
Over to the site plan. This is our first attempt. Originally, what we would call a bubble
plan -- that is you can see the layout, that's virtually exactly what we have done. We
have used on the left side where this 12 acre retail pad would be, this is the bigger box
to the left. Roughly 125,000 square feet, followed up by these mid range boxes,
totaling about 60,000, give or take. And, then, the three pads up here on the -- on the
street. Now, as far as access is concerned, we think we have done a great job doing
that. We have two full accesses on Stoddard, the light -- the signal at the Stoddard and
Overland intersection and, then, aright-in, right-out and, then, two full accesses going
down the center of the property, along with being able to -- to go out at the signal. And
as you can see from here, we have tried to do a really good job in keeping traffic
connecting from Stoddard all the way to Overland. This map does not show it, but this
goes down in front of Lowe's and, then, trickles down and if you're going south, you will
be able to get out just south at Walgreen's and, then, head south on Meridian Road.
So, we believe we have done an adequate job in getting traffic to cross-connect. Now,
concerning the stub road, there is going to be more comment on this later, but we have
agreed with ACRD and with staff to -- according to what they have asked us to do, but
I'd just like to go on the record -- I live not very far from here, so I travel up and down
this road each and every day probably two or three times. I know traffic patterns. I
know when the heaviest traffic is in there and I know when it's calm and when you can
get through there with ease. But I'd just like to say that I think there will be two -- this is
concerning the people coming out of Bear Creek in here. There will be two speeds that
people will go. They will probably be ten miles an hour to 15 miles an hour if they are
just going into shop. Just like we all do, we kind of take our time and pick our store and
find a convenient place to park and, then, we go in. Then, the second speed will be
those who are on their way to get to the traffic light here and get to the freeway. And I'm
assuming that will be just about as fast as they can get there, because coming out early
morning -- now, it's early in the morning, late in the evening, there is a tremendous
amount of traffic coming out of here. I am just concerned for pedestrians in here if this
road goes through. It's supposed to -- what the city would like us to do is come through
here, out, and, then, up into this area. We have agreed to that, but I think we may have
a pedestrian problem because of the speed of what I think a lot of people in Bear Creek
are going to use to get to the traffic light to get to the freeway. Concerning -- I agree
and in support of staff -- staff conditions just excluding a couple. And on the staff report
Meridian City Council
August 21, 2007
Page 27 of 67
it's actually found on page 12. It has to do with lot sizes. Right at the moment we,
obviously, can't enter into a contractual agreement, because we don't have any legal
descriptions, but it's this particular one here. We are on an all out assault to try to bring
a soft good user to this neighborhood. A grocery store. And we are having a heck of a
time. However, just within the last couple of weeks we have entertained a larger box
grocery store, but in order to get this store you also get the hard good side and I'm
referring to Fred Meyers. I have asked them if they would just come and bring their
food only and the answer to that was quick and that's no. If you get food you get all the
rest of it. And they area 170,000 square foot building and this particular one now, even
with the -- it's 125,000 shown, but even with the up it would only -- with the 15 percent
that -- that is within this agreement, would only get it to about 140,000. So, what I'm
asking is to try to facilitate a grocery store I need enough leeway to get one in. So, I'm
asking as part of this -- the DA that I'm going to sign is just on this one allow me to go
up, if I have to, to 170,000 feet. There is still plenty of room to park, it's not an issue of
overdevelopment. But in the event that I don't need it, I'll just go back down to the size
of the tenant that we do get. Also, in the same bullet point -- it's actually bullet two on
page 12 of the staff report, it's also noting that I will do at least five lots or five pads and
I'm asking, since this is not a plat, I'm asking just for a little more leeway in there. If we
could go from four to maybe six, because right at the moment, not knowing the market,
just to say five puts me in a -- in a situation I'd rather not be in. So, in that particular
point if it could just read four to six. Concerning the walkways, we will do a very nice job
for the pedestrian walkway. We will do it exactly how staff wants us to do it. We will do
it eight feet wide and we will stripe it -- excuse me. Not stripe it, but we will -- from the --
it's going to go up here. In between the drive aisles we will make sure that it's either
pavers or scorched concrete to separate, so all the pedestrians will know and we are
assuming that a lot of pedestrians in Bear Creek will use this. Not just to shop, there
will be some fast food pads up front and a variety of perhaps two or three users in here
that they will want to walk to and in the summertime they will, obviously, want to try to
walk over to the water park. So, we are going to provide them a very nice walk to do so.
Now -- Anna, if you will roll it back to the very last picture concerning -- one more.
Concerning we have worked with the neighborhood, not only at our neighborhood
meeting, but in the times that we spent at Planning and Zoning and, then, several times
on the telephone. What you find here is -- in these three pictures, this is the target store
on Chinden and Eagle and this just happens to be the east side of the building or the
back side. We are concerned, obviously -- we have residential to the back -- to the
south of us and we are very sensitive to the fact that they are there. This is what we
have proposed, is, one, restricting the use -- the C-G use, and the south side of this
property make it just the C-N uses, which will limit what we are doing and the more high
intensive use will go up on the -- on Overland Road. But in the back we have agreed to
put up a six foot concrete wall. We will take down the existing five foot vinyl fence, we
will take that down, and, then, buttress in all of their perpendicular fences into a six foot
solid decorative concrete wall. And, then, to buffer you can see here -- this is, actually,
one of the best -- in my opinion, one of the best jobs in town at trying to do this. On the
very end there is a concrete wall -- well, you can see it right in here. It's six foot tall.
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Now, this is probably three or four years old now, so the landscaping is just about what
you can see. It's really grown in and met in between the deciduous trees and the pine
trees quite nicely. This is what we plan to do. And as you can see, we have to have --
in order to access all this property we have to have the road, we will do the same thing,
and, then, we will double buffer right in here. So, what the neighborhood will get is a 60
foot from the back of our property line to the back of this wall will be 60 feet with this
kind of landscaping. There are some other questions that -- well, I believe I have
answered -- I have taken a lot of phone calls from the neighborhood and I think I have
tried to answer everything that they have asked me to do. So, I will stand for questions.
De Weerd: Council, questions?
Rountree: I have none at this time.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Rountree: Madam Mayor --
De Weerd: Oh, yes.
Rountree: On the example you show us, the building materials are not what we would
typically see in the rear side of a building of that size. You'd probably normally see just
plain concrete block. Would you continue the architectural aspect, as this building
indicates, around whatever box that might go in there.
Prather: Anna, if you will go back to the site plan, please. I just want to show you,
Councilman Rountree. What we have agreed on -- and I kind of omitted this -- to dock
this thing from the west. We can't do it here, because it's just physically not possible.
But on the larger box get it to the west, but -- and, then, I want to go back to the picture,
if you don't mind. This is what we are talking about. It would -- it would doc, to the side.
Now, as far as building materials go, this is one of the only targets I have seen that is
actually done -- this is a class development, not only in the landscaping, but on the way
that boxing was put in. I cannot say -- Fred Meyers, in my opinion, if we get Fred
Meyers -- I'm not saying we are, but I'm a big proponent of making this one of the nicest
centers -- as a matter of fact, the only center we have out there. So, as far as building
material, I would like to see that as well. Fred Meyers is a tilt up structure. If Fred
Meyers is the tenant, it's a tilt up structure will all sorts of -- well, I'm sure you have been
in one, Council. I want it nice.
De Weerd: Okay. Anything further? Okay. This is a Public Hearing. I do have one --
amember from the public that is signed up, Jim Kouril -- Kouril. Thank you. Signed up
against. If you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
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August 21, 2007
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Kouril: Kouril: My name is Jim Kouril. Last is K-o-u-r-i-I. 374 West Davenport Court,
Meridian. 83642.
Canning: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Canning: May I ask Mr. Kouril what the name of his file was? I have missed -- I don't
see it on my desktop. I know I have it.
Kouril: Queenland.
Canning: Thank you.
De Weerd: And, Jim, are you the homeowners association representative?
Kouril: Yes.
De Weerd: Okay. I just want to give you extra time, then.
Kouril: Okay. Thank you. Madam Mayor, Council, a little bit of background on the Bear
Creek community. There was a petition submitted, the petition contained 236
signatures and I believe it was submitted to you in July or to the city in July. We are
concerned about development in our area. The issues with home values, traffic, and
quality of life. A little bit of background. Bear Creek is a planned community. There are
354 residential homes, values from 300,000 to 900,000 dollars. We have pedestrian
walkways which lead to Bear Creek City Park. We have lighted streets with lighted
walkways, planted medians. We have separate entrances with plantings and we have
street trees. Go ahead and bounce to the next one, because I gave you the wrong one.
Thank you. Just going to show you a little bit. This is -- the Bear Creek neighborhood is
actually this entire area through here, with the Queenland development up here and the
Lowe's commercial development right here. So, I'm going to show you a couple of
pictures later which have just part of Bear Creek, but you need to consider the entire
subdivision here. Some issues, of course, land use zoning, traffic issues, the values of
our homes, visual pollution and noise pollution. The current zoning is an R-1 with a
proposed C-G being proposed by Mr. Prather, a 200,000 square foot building with 65
foot tall walls, minimal buffer. However, P&Z has expressed that it's going to have a
larger buffer, the 60 foot buffer. What's important is that Meridian's Comprehensive
Plan states that redevelopment of this type of area is to be guided by the intensity of the
existing use, the underlying zoning of the property, the surrounding land uses, the
location of the property, the transportation issues associated with it and the proposed
development of the property. And I can tell you right now that you have the wrong
Powerpoint presentation up there and that might be my fault. So, what I'm going to do
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August 21, 2007
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is I'm going to -- I'm just going to kind of wing it off my notes. What's important is --
Canning: Jim, let me be the one -- pardon me, Mayor. That may be the one from the
P&Z that was left on there, so let me -- I have another one. Let me see if that's it.
Kouril: Okay. It would be the other one. Same name. Queenland.
Canning: Is this looking better?
Kouril: Oh, that's a good one.
Canning: Okay.
Kouril: Leave it there. Thank you. And I'm glad you found that, because that is an
example of visual pollution. That is the Lowe's project. That is what has been approved
by the city and that's directly out of a neighborhood in Bear Creek, a backyard. Again,
in the land use we are very adamant about having transitional zoning simply because
the Comprehensive Plan says that you will have transitional zonings to buffer
commercial projects from residential neighborhoods and you saw a prime example of
why the city has that in the Comprehensive Plan. The big issue in this is we have
vehicle traffic. A C-G zone there is going to be a large amount of traffic. The stub street
Alaska Way will serve no purpose. It's not a through street. The traffic dump in the
parking lot will have no clear route. There is safety issues, as Mr. Prather expressed,
too, with traffic weaving through the parking lot. Mr. Prather, the Queenland developer,
Lowe's, and Bear Creek residents do not want the stub street to continue. Through
traffic invites traffic into Bear Creek, it creates more opportunity for crime and long-term
problems. And this example here, just to show you, there is no direct route. Unsafe
driving conditions. It's a poor design. And the larger question is this stub street will
really only serve about 40 residents of Bear Creek. The picture I showed earlier
showed the top portion of Beer Creek. There is the entire southern portion of Bear
Creek, which has much easier access to this development, coming up out of the Bear
Creek Subdivision and up Stoddard or coming up Meridian Road and up to Overland
and over to the project. The Commission -- the P&Z Commission recommendation did
not require Alaska Street to be extended into the site as a public or nonpublic street, but
did require it to be used as an emergency access and a pedestrian pathway. I also
read in the report local access signs were recommended. And local access signs will
mean nothing to the people cutting through the parking lot and the neighborhood. It is
not safe, they are not going to be enforced anyway, so it would just be a waste of
signage, and I believe that the City Council needs to communicate this to the Ada
County Highway District. This is a little bit better picture of the area, because it is -- I
explained earlier the 40 houses that are going to be -- that would be -- the only benefit
would be in this area here. This is the stub street that we are talking about. The large
ugly building that we call Lowe's sits right here and the Queenland development goes
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from this point here to Stoddard Road here. Now, if traffic is starting to shoot through
from Overland down, one way they might be able to do it, instead of going as
recommend by the city, weaving in and out of the parking lot, which is a hazard, but
they might just race down the side of Lowe's and into this neighborhood where we have
these homes, we have a cul-de-sac here, and this is a common area for kids to play.
Then, they are going to end up weaving through the neighborhood maybe to get out
onto Stoddard to head south or back out to dodge any lights out onto Meridian Road,
which sits over here to head south to Kuna. Again, only 40 homes it benefits. People
can walk to the store saving fuel and reducing emissions and the reason I threw that in
this slide is because one member of the highway district mentioned that the highway
district is trying to encourage people to save fuel and reduce emissions. Now, granted,
if we are going to go to Lowe's and we are building a project, we are going to take a
vehicle, we are going to take a pickup so we can load it up. But if we are going to go to
the store to buy milk or bread or simple things, why not just walk over to the store, save
fuel, reduce emissions. Stub roads have not always been continued and I bring that
point up, because the highway district said -- and I believe it was said here, it was
posted as a potential through street and I have an example of where there was a street
posted and it did not continue. And that is right here. The stub street -- this is the
Lowe's project up off of Eagle and, again, this is a stub street that was not continued.
So, by saying just because it's posted we need to continue it doesn't fly, because it
hasn't been continued here. What we are proposing -- and I have spoke a lot with Mr.
Prather about it and I do appreciate his concern -- is a pedestrian walkway. This is the
pedestrian walkway -- I believe this is the Hobble Creek Subdivision, which is near the
very nice target up on Eagle and Chinden, I believe, and I took some pictures of this to
show what we would hope to achieve, something that's nice like this, a nice walkway,
it's got nice landscaping -- there is a neighborhood hidden back in here, which is key,
because we can't see the neighborhood from the commercial development, which
means the neighborhood can't see the commercial development from that end. This is
the target on the south side of it. Again, here is the walkway. Here is a service street
that they have. In this next picture -- and I -- when I testify in front of the Council, I am
testifying truthfully, this is not a staged picture, I was out there taking pictures and this
mother and her daughter were out riding a bike on the walkway next to a commercial
development and I know the city believes in commercial development and I know the
city also believes that this is a city for families to be raised, it's a city to enjoy and live.
And I think if we all work together we can have a very nice commercial development
and we can have places that families can enjoy like you're seeing here. So, we request
that you protect our quality of life, do not allow the stub road, do not increase the traffic
in our neighborhood, and help insure the safety of the children in the neighborhood.
And I stand for any questions.
De Weerd: Thank you. Any questions, Council?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
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August 21, 2007
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De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Nice presentation by the way.
Kouril: Thank you.
Borton: It sounded like when you started the concern was opposed to the project as a
whole and, then, finished as though the association's opposition lies primarily upon the
stub road and traffic.
Kouril: Correct. So, I did a good job on that.
Borton: You like the idea, you like the project, but let's address the traffic, stub road
issue, as the primary concern or --
Kouril: Correct. Yeah.
Borton: Okay.
Kouril: We understand that commercial development will occur. What we don't want is
we don't want another Lowe's like I showed you that picture in working with Mr. Prather.
P&Z recommended a dual landscape boundary, the delivery entrances on one side.
The neighborhood is pleased with what's going to go on landscapewise and
buildingwise. And our big concern, though, is that stub road for safety is to have a
walkway.
Borton: Okay.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I believe you answered my question, but I'm going to ask it
again just to make sure I'm hearing you right. Was there anything that you would add or
object to that Mr. Prather presented in terms of the landscaping and the barrier between
the residential and the back of the commercial building, if this were to go forward?
Kouril: If I understood your question correctly, I think an easy way to answer that
question is the P&Z and examples you saw here earlier tonight, the Target -- the
backside of Target has been displayed in photographs and that is what our belief is that
will occur and I believe Mr. Prather and I are on the same page with that, the dual
landscaping with the service road. So, I would -- the neighborhood is pleased with that
decision.
Rountree: Thank you.
Kouril: Thank you.
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August 21, 2007
Page 33 of 67
De Weerd: And I guess to further elaborate, your suggestion is to end the stub and
make it a pedestrian access with similar connectivity that was shown, again, using the
Target example at Chinden and Eagle.
Kouril: Yes. And I understand, too, though, that because of where some of -- it all
depends on the layout of the project. I don't see Mr. Prather going from a stub street to
just a sidewalk. I see a little bit of landscaping to help it fill into his development. It
wouldn't make sense to have a sidewalk that just walks you right into the back of a
building and I think we can work together on that. I mean I have spent a lot of time
talking with him, he has a lot of great ideas, he is listening to the neighborhood ideas
and I think we can come to a solution that would benefit the city citizens, benefit the
neighborhood, and benefit his development.
De Weerd: Well, you can tell he's talked to the neighborhood, because, otherwise, this
room would be full, so --
Kouril: Yeah.
De Weerd: -- appreciate that. Any other questions from Council?
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I have a question for Mr. Prather's engineer.
Stanfield: Mayor and Members of the Council, Scott Stanfield, 314 Badiola.
Rountree: And we have heard a number of comments this evening about traffic and
traffic movement and I want to -- I want to find out -- if this is a full access here, what's
going to make that move, something that people aren't going to be encouraged to do. It
seems to me that that's -- that will become a race track. Not entirely different than
what's actually around the existing Fred Meyers on Fairview.
Stanfield: Correct. Here in Meridian. And I have been back behind that one. Just off
the top of my head, thinking out loud, for one thing we have the double buffer. We are
going to narrow that drive aisle down to the minimum per fire code, which I think is 20
feet. So, that in itself, plus the row of trees, once they mature along the left and right or
the south and north sides of that, Councilmember Rountree, should help a calming
effect for vehicles pulling through there. I can do my best and -- if I'm fortunate enough
to do the grading plan, is put a couple valley gutters across there. That's a little trick
engineers use to slow down traffic. We could entertain speed bumps. And, honestly, in
that extreme southeast corner of Mr. Prather's project on the connection below, there is
quite a grade difference there. I think it's five, six feet. So, it's going to be an awful
steep incline there and Lowe's trucks will make that turn. So, I think a driver may do it
once or twice, but it's going to be so random whether that's going to be open and
available to speed through, but if you don't want that connection, we can certainly
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August 21, 2007
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eliminate that in that southeast corner, if it helps calm it. But I think we have a lot
different application with the double buffer than the other Fred Meyers.
Rountree: I just see that as a potential problem for your future tenants as well.
Stanfield: Yeah. I agree. And that's been our contention. James will do whatever this
body wishes him to do, but I think he's correct and the neighbors are correct and the
P&Z Commission was correct, this really isn't a place to have interconnection with
vehicular traffic. Jim Kouril did a good job in identifying the traffic patterns and he is
correct and in my professional opinion it's only really going to benefit 40 people. If those
40 people don't want it, why put it in. Let traffic use the arterials and the collectors
versus cut-through through their residence.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: If we take Alaska and don't -- and have it a pedestrian -- nice pedestrian path in
there, there is no way we can allow that street to go south and, then, turn and go 90
degrees to the west. So, if there is any way -- I would like to see it shut off there at the
south and, then, stop at the pedestrian coming in from the west, because they do have
an access up halfway there to get into the parking lot off of that and I do personally like
the idea of Alaska being a pedestrian friendly -- not a roadway.
Stanfield: And if I could add to that, Councilmember Bird, Mayor, Members of the
Council, if you continue east behind Lowe's you get to the parcel that is currently
developed as Wallgreen's on the corner. If you go just a little bit north on Lowe's
southeast corner there is a future connection that will go to the east and you are correct,
Councilmember Bird and Rountree, that traffic could make a straight shot, just about,
and if you eliminate just that one southeast connection off the grade right there, it's
going to discourage a lot of that movement, both in delivery vehicles and residential cut-
throughs.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Borton: Just real quick. How do you do that?
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I might answer Councilman. I don't consider myself to be the
designer of this project, I just point out that seeing those kinds of issues in other
developments, I just point them out that it is an issue and I only hope that the
engineering staff and the development community would get their heads together and
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August 21, 2007
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find a solution, whether it's a bulb out or serpentine alignment of their access road or
whatever it might be. Just something to make -- discourage people from thinking that's
a great place to go.
Borton: I agree with you.
Stanfield: I need to interject real quick. After everything I just said, Mr. Prather did
inform me that he really does need that for truck traffic. So, I would encourage you to
insert into the development agreement a condition of traffic calming devices, in addition
to the buffers. A choke point. Well, we couldn't choke, because we are going to go
down to the minimum anyway. But maybe other traffic calming devices. Speed bumps
or valley gutters. But apparently he does need that for truck movement to keep the
trucks away from the parking areas.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Scott, I understand that, but, you know, that's -- I don't know how wide that road is
going to be, probably 20 feet?
Stanfield: Twenty feet.
Bird: You're not going to -- at a 90 degree, unless you have got a nice round corner
there, you're not going to get too big of a semi around that corner. Why can't they come
in from the west and stop there -- I hate having traffic going around pedestrian travel
and that's what you want -- that's what you're suggesting for Alaska is to make it that.
And you're encouraging people to walk into your development and stuff like that and,
yet, you're running trucks by there. 1 would think there is a way we could get the trucks
in from the west and not have -- unless you're doing it for the developments to the east
there also, but they surely have their own in and out for their trucks and I understand,
nobody wants their semis going up in the parking lot.
Stanfield: We have made out a turning movement for a truck. We may have to shorten
that out a little bit, but a truck can fit through there.
Bird: And if it was only trucks, I would have -- you know, I'd have I think less about --
with the pedestrians, but you know dang good and well if it's opened up pretty soon kids
or adults are going to find that out and if they can save themselves a minute they are
going to come flying down through there and with a 90 degree corner -- whoever lives in
Bear Creek there is probably going to get their fence or that block wall will be getting to
kiss a lot of cars sooner or later.
Rountree: Once anyway.
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August 21, 2007
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Bird: Yeah. At least once. So, I don't know, (just -- I am like Councilman Rountree, I
hate having something -- because we have seen this every time in developments, every
time you have a through thing the people have to use it as a shortcut and it's not right,
but they do it.
Stanfield: I was just conferring with my client. And just looking at that visually in that
extreme southeast, we could -- we are over parked on the site. We could eliminate
some of those stalls and put a truck turn circle back there and even separate it from the
parking and Idon't -- I think that will work out just fine.
Bird: I think your -- I think you can design -- you got enough land there -- it's not as if
you're land tight that you can design something, and I hate to see a through road there,
to be truthful with you. I do.
Stanfield: I think we can. I think we can work -- definitely work around that.
Bird: Okay. No more. Thank you.
De Weerd: Any other questions?
Bird: No. Thank you.
Stanfield: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Okay. This is a Public Hearing. Is there anyone else who would like
to provide testimony on this application?
Canning: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Canning: If there is no other public comment, I did want to respond to one thing that the
applicant proposed tonight.
De Weerd: Was Mr. Kouril or Kouril -- were you done? Okay. Thank you.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I'm a little concerned that the
applicant has proposed during the hearing tonight to alter the conceptual plan before
you significantly. To go from one hundred -- one of the features of this concept plan
that we felt did respond to the neighbors was that the mass of the buildings was broken
up into these five different areas, that it wasn't the one rather really large box like we
have seen the problems with -- associated with Lowe's or other large box stores that
just have that -- they are just alarge -- very large building. So, he's proposing to have --
Meridian City Council
August 21, 2007
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instead of 125 with a 15 percent allowance, I heard 170 with a 15 percent allowance,
which would bring it up close to 200.
Bird: No. Madam Mayor --
Canning: If it's just 170, that's still --
Bird: -- 170, he asked if he could negotiate up to 170.
Canning: And that's still a significant change from what's shown on this concept plan
and to go from breaking it into five masses to now just having, basically, one building
along the back there -- I do think that's a significant change that shouldn't -- should be
noted as such, if nothing else. It's not a trivial change to the impact on the neighbors.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird.
Bird: Anna, can lask -- what we are enacting on is the zoning change tonight, am I not
right? Rezone?
De Weerd: No. Annexation.
Bird: Annexation. I'm sorry. Yeah. Annexation. And that is strictly a conceptual plan,
isn't it? I mean that's not a preliminary plat or anything like that; am I not right?
Canning: No, sir. You're correct. But the development agreement provision that he
wants to modify is kind of highlighted here. It's -- the development of this site shall be
generally consistent with the conceptual building elevations and site plan submitted with
this application. The individual buildings within this development shall be limited to 15
percent over or under the sizes shown on the concept plan and the minimum number of
building allowed on the site shall be five as shown on the concept plan. That -- that was
the provision of the development agreement that he had requested modifications to.
Bird: So, he's trying -- instead of that, he's wanting to go to -- be able to negotiate up to
170,000 square feet.
Canning: And just --
Bird: Up to, not over. Up to.
Canning: And four to six building pads.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
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August 21, 2007
Page 38 of 67
Canning: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I guess the concern Ihave -- I guess to
follow up from Mrs. Canning -- is although it is only an annexation, so you are certainly
free to consider the request and consider the zoning that's being requested and the like,
the Public Hearing that was already held at Planning and Zoning and the Public Hearing
that's been in front of you up until I guess just now -- I haven't seen this request prior to
tonight's testimony -- is what the public has seen prior to coming. What I would suggest
is if you want to consider some additional changes, to at least give some opportunity --
again, Idon't know if Mr. Kouril was aware of that change or whether he feels
comfortable to be able to speak on behalf of -- pardon me -- Bear Creek and what those
neighbors may think of this plan or not or whether or not they think this change is
significant to them, again, you're free to do it, it's whether or not you want to do it. The
notice that provided -- the notice of people as seen to this point is similar as to what's
been shown on the DA, not a larger box and number of building changes and such --
again, Iknow it's conceptual, but that is the information the public's had to this point, so
I'm not sure how to make sure they have an opportunity so that you don't have a
comment later that if we had only known it was a larger building we would have been
there to talk about it. They may not have a concern of the -- Mr. Prather's elevations
and what they are proposing is a very nice transition from the neighborhoods, but,
again, it's up to you.
De Weerd: Mr. Prather.
Prather: Thank you, Madam Mayor and Council. To answer -- perhaps to clarify, it's my
understanding -- during my neighborhood meeting I spoke of the size of buildings and
pads I thought I would have. I spoke of it the night of the Planning and Zoning meeting,
as I spoke of it tonight. I may not need 170,000 square feet. I may not need 125, I may
end up 100. I'm just saying at this point, since this is not a preliminary plat, but yet in
your DA you want to clearly define it, I just need enough room to know if I'm going to go
chase a grocery store and obtain them as a tenant for this neighborhood, I may get the
other side of it as I have already mentioned earlier. I may have to have that flexibility.
Now, as far as the number of lots go -- or the number of pads go, if this -- excuse me. If
this is a Fred Meyers that pad out front will disappear. So, all I'm saying here is
between the four and the six is enough leeway in case what -- in the real market I'm not
able to do exactly what I see here -- I mean to the very square foot. I'm hoping I made
that more clear.
De Weerd: Anna, I guess in the past you can limit the total number of square footage,
so, then, Mr. Prather, when he's -- he's marketing his piece he knows the size and can
you maybe even look at the length of the building in back, so if he gets a larger tenant it
can be pushed out more in the front -- are there other options that keep the footprint
facing the neighbors such that he still has greater flexibility?
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August 21, 2007
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Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, that would certainly be one way to
address the issue. And, again, I'm -- on a concept plan on the interior lots we tend to
have a lot more flexibility, but as you get to the properties that adjoin the existing
residences is typically where we do try and nail down some of these things. My
understanding of most big boxes, though, is that they want to go long. They don't want
to go wide. They are going to want to take up more of that mass going east-west, not
north-south. But that could certainly be a way to address that issue to say that he's
limited to a certain amount of wall face along that southern boundary.
De Weerd: I think it's very difficult following Lowe's and kind of the challenges that they
have provided and the precedent they seem to have set, it has startled all of us, so --
Prather: Madam Mayor, I --
De Weerd: And I appreciate your cautious approach on this.
Prather: Madam Mayor and Council, the -- the technical side of this is there was a
canal that came down through this property and we had to move that over here, so we
could line up to where it crosses the street and in doing so the topography was such
where in the south end the 48 inch class pipe was actually two feet out of the ground,
which made -- which is not a problem, but it made this pad sit up five feet higher than
the original grade was. That's why it stands up so tall. There is a huge transition rise
here. We drop down five, six feet. You won't see that sort of look down in here. And,
by the way, up to 170,000 is roughly right here. That's what it would be, give or take.
Canning: Madam Mayor, the -- the square footage shown right now is 125. I don't see
how what you outlined could be 170. That -- it's over a 30 percent increase. I'm sorry,
Madam Mayor, I shouldn't have spoken. I apologize. I'm --
Bird: That's 45,000 more square feet and that don't -- that don't take a whole lot. You
start -- you start taking ten foot by a hundred foot -- and ten foot -- I mean they are not
going to go -- and they are pretty deep already. I think in my -- in my mind that 170,000
square foot isn't a real large building. I mean it's big, don't get me wrong, it is large, but
-- but Ithink -- I think the point of this, with the housing and the development we are
getting out there and the way we are worrying about street traffic, to have a grocery
store in that area -- if only 50 percent of the people that live there trade there, that's a lot
of car trips that stay off of the road going through Meridian. Because right now they
either have to go down Meridian and Main to Albertson's or out Fairview to Fred Meyers
or into Winco and stuff like that. This -- and I -- there is no guarantee he's going to get
us a grocery store.
Prather: That's correct.
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Bird: But to me, for the citizens of the south side, this is a win-win situation and if he
needs 170,000 square feet to get it, I have no problem giving it. That's my opinion.
De Weerd: As long as it's a grocery store.
Bird: As long as it's got a grocery store.
Prather: Madam Mayor and Council, we have worked diligently -- we have -- we have
courted Albertson's, I have flown to Portland to meet with Safeways twice to bring them
back to town. Not just for this site, but to the city. We have Winco across the street, so
we are -- I don't need to talk to them. But I -- this is like a quest to me. This is where I --
this is where my wife and I would shop. Everybody that I run into in this neighborhood,
the first thing they ask me -- do you have a grocery store yet, do you have a grocery
store yet. We are also taking it -- the pads up front. We are looking for just the right
tenant that we need in that neighborhood.
De Weerd: Council, any other questions?
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: It's not really a question, it's a comment, and to see what -- if you're okay with
it, because it would please me at least. You know, I'm impressed with the project and
the intent and the great effort you're taking at developing -- or, excuse me --
communicating with the community and neighborhood, trying to address their concerns.
I'm supportive of making -- I believe it was Alaska --
Prather: Yes.
Borton: -- a pedestrian -- utilizing some pedestrian connectivity there. I'm interested in
the turn aisle, I believe. I forget the language Scott used for truck -- resolving the truck
issue. I think Councilman Rountree's concerns are right. You know, what I would
suggest, because concept plans are just that, concept plans, and you're held to
generally comply with them and -- I forget the specific language in the DA, but generally
comply with them, would be to continue it for a week or two to give you the chance to
add those pedestrian elements, the solution for the truck traffic issue, and perhaps sit
down and give a footprint that shows what about a 170,000 square foot looks like, show
the neighborhood, maybe they are fine with it. They probably are. Doesn't sound like
they had a lot of heartbeat. So, we come back in -- and maybe it's a week, probably
two, show the revised concept plan. To annex without the plat, without anything more,
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August 21, 2007
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is such a huge decision and it's -- those are really really critical elements to pin down.
You know, there is some delay to it, but I'm curious what your thoughts are.
Prather: Madam Mayor and Councilman Borton, one thing that was mentioned early on,
maybe to help here and comfort, every building on this site has to go through design
review and that was already stated in the staff report that would go into the DA.
Everything we do there will have to go under that scrutiny. If that's the wishes of the
Council, I would do as you wish. I believe -- and I will not speak for the neighborhood,
but so far in all of my counseling with them they have not had an issue back here. The
issues that they have are the ones that have already been addressed and that's with the
buffer in the back to make sure that there is a tremendous amount of effort made to
differentiate residential from commercial and doing it with the landscaping really does
that. Now, as far as the Alaska button in there, exactly what that will -- turn area will
look like, that will take a little thought, but all it is is basically a dog bone on the end.
The reason why we left it like this, actually, and Scott mentioned it, is that we could
bring the trucks in at the light and bring them down and out if they have to back in,
which they will have to back in right in this area, that they can back in, unload, and,
then, just continue on out orvice-versa, that they would be able to slide up here. To be
honest, Councilman Rountree, what you brought up I had not thought about, but it's a
great point. Because of this access it would be almost straight up around Lowe's and,
then -- so, it's a good point. And we can go back. That's easily enough done right in
here because we do have enough room. So, if that's the Council's wishes, I will do so.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Borton: I think you're sensitive to the neighborhood concerns, I can tell from the way
you have designed this, but Anna's comments are well taken. I probably would have
said the same thing, just to make sure that they are aware of what that difference and
your request might look like. Probably not an issue. Probably not any heartbeat
amongst the neighbors, but -- maybe it's not necessary. I just throw that out.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Well, I'll let him answer first, but I have got a rebuttal to that, I --
De Weerd: I think he'd probably prefer your rebuttal to that, then, we will ask for his
comment.
Bird: I -- I think, you know, he can go back and draw it with 170,000 square foot floor
plan, but what if they don't need a hundred and -- then what? Then, it's going to drop
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down. It's going through design and review anyway, each building is, so if he can't get
170 and he only needs 140, then, has to come back and give us another conceptual
drawing. I think -- I mean let's enact upon it and let him go out and see what he needs.
We know he isn't going to be allowed over 170,000 square feet. If he don't need that
I'm sure he's not going to -- because if he can keep one extra pad on there, he's -- that's
money in his pocket, and so I'm for going ahead and making a decision on it tonight and
giving him up to 170.
Prather: Well, my rebuttal would be, Councilman Bird, I would agree with that
Bird: I figured you would, but I thought you wanted to answer Joe's question
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: This is a slightly different direction for -- but just envisioning what's going to
happen with Overland Road in the future and farther west along Overland Road and as
the whole south Meridian area develops more and more, I'm concerned about how
many full accesses you have onto Overland. With a signal at both ends of your
property, a quarter mile apart, to have three accesses in between in that quarter mile
and two of them be full access, I'm concerned that the day may come when ACHD is
going to say we have to put a median down the middle of this street and stop the full
accesses and Ijust -- I'm concerned about the future of Overland. I think there is going
to be a whole lot more traffic there than anybody is predicting at the moment and I'm
concerned about -- I don't think it will ever be Eagle Road, but I'm concerned about all
the full accesses.
Prather: Madam Mayor, Councilman, I -- this is just a sheet of paper. This is a quarter
of a mile. This is just aright-in, right-out. Actually, we went to ACRD and they are
really the ones that told us -- because if you notice we are lining up. This was moved
over to here, so that would line up. This is not actually on my property, I'm just -- we are
just using this little ingress-egress to get to the light. And these two are the ones that
ACRD recommended we put in, exactly right across the street from where they line up.
So, that -- we just -- we just kind of went with their recommendations there. And,
respectfully, as well there has been talk on numerous evenings in front of this Council
about connectivity from Stoddard Road to Meridian and in several months how this has
evolved is where you see -- not this one, necessarily, because that's just for service, but
how this one comes through and how these -- all these drive aisles match up back and,
then, move all the way to Meridian. So, a lot of time and effort has been spent on this.
Not us technically designing it, but the recommendations from ACHD and from the City
of Meridian.
Zaremba: Thank you.
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August 21, 2007
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Prather: I'm not sure I answered your question.
Zaremba: I'm not sure it was a question.
De Weerd: Yeah. But I will tell you what, it's the best flowing parking lot I have seen.
Bird: Amen.
De Weerd: I mean usually you have cars backing into the aisles and -- parking lots are
my big pet peeve. So, I appreciate the attention to detail on that, because it does have
good interconnectivity in the flow, which you don't often see.
Bird: Scott painted a pretty picture.
De Weerd: So, Council, any further question? What direction are you going on this?
Rountree: I have no other questions.
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba?
Zaremba: Overall this is not much of a surprise. I would assume that this is the
direction that this area and this corner is going to go. I am sensitive to President
Borton's comment that sometimes you just want to see it drawn out if there are going to
be some changes. If there is a possibility it's going to 170,000 square feet, if there is
the possibility that we do a turnaround instead of connecting the southeast comer, I kind
of would like to see that drawing as well. On the other hand, I don't feel terribly strongly
about that. On the basic concept that it's going to be something like this no matter what
happens -- and I think that's what the city has envisioned all along --
De Weerd: Well, I guess there seems to be a comfort level design with the design, the
concern and attention you have given to the neighborhood and transitioning, but I guess
if the drive aisle does have a change of design, our fire department probably needs to
see it and so -- just to evaluate it on the circulation and those kind of concerns that -- I
hate to say some things have come back to bite us, but they have, and it's because we
haven't given staff adequate time to evaluate it as well.
Prather: Well, Madam Mayor, I don't think that was the question for me, but the --
Councilman Bird mentioned that it may be 170,000 feet, I may come back and it may
look just like this or it may be 100,000 square feet. At this particular stage Ican't --
because this is only zoning and annexation -- this is what I want to do and drive the
aisles and everything -- we have gone through design, after design, after design making
Meridian City Council
August 21, 2007
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sure that no matter what we put in, including 170,000 square foot, a box there, it will not
change the drive aisles. The way everything is situated we will not compromise on
access coming in and out of this thing. Nothing there will change. The only thing that
would be changing is after Councilman Rountree's comment about in the southeast
corner there and all you would, basically, see is just this -- I'm assuming the road here,
Alaska, buttoned up, except for pedestrian and, then, you would just see this little tiny
little turnaround here, just enough to get semis to unload, to come down, spin around,
and, then, go back out where they came from. That's the only change you're going to
see. And, then, if I don't get them, then, I -- I would come back in again and say, well,
that's not it, we are just going to size it down and -- so it's one these things where I
guess it's your comfort level.
De Weerd: And it's been a staff level evaluation. So, Council, it would be what you feel
comfortable with.
Rountree: I have a question for Mr. Prather and I want to make sure that I heard what
you said correctly. When you said you brought the proposals to the neighborhood and
discussed what it was you wanted to do, I thought you indicated that you had
represented the potential for a larger building.
Prather: Uh-huh.
Rountree: Up to 170,000 square feet?
Prather: You know, what 1 said was is as big as Lowe's.
Rountree: As big as Lowe's. Which is how many square feet? That's even bigger than
that, isn't it?
Bird: Oh, yeah.
Prather: I don't know if I could represent accurately how big Lowe's is.
Bird: It's got to be 200.
Rountree: It's too big.
De Weerd: You saw the picture.
Rountree: And I guess for my comfort level I would ask the question of Mr. Kouril, is
that your understanding of what was represented to you as a homeowners association?
Kouril: Yes.
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August 21, 2007
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Rountree: Okay. Thank you
you.
Prather: Thank you, sir.
De Weerd: Okay.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Then I did hear correctly and I appreciate that. Thank
Zaremba: f might clear up all my questions, then, with just going back to this one little
area there. If you were to do a turnaround, then, you would somehow block this, I
would assume, so that there would be no cross-access at that one point, except
perhaps pedestrian. Is that -- if there is a five foot elevation difference that probably
helps you, because this was going to have to be kind of a steep driveway.
Prather: Madam Mayor and Councilman, that's correct. I mean the transition could be
made here no doubt, but this is the only access that would be buttoned up, so -- if that's
the Council's wishes. All of these others would remain in, because we need to be able
to cross. Now, I'm not saying they couldn't come in here and, then, spin down here, but
it's made so difficult for them, we would have that all over town. That same scenario
would be happening all over town in every one of these centers. People will fine their
own way, but if you make it difficult enough for them, they'll find another access.
Zaremba: So, I'm assuming that if we do suggest that there is no cross-access there,
that you're also saying that this turnaround would not have access into the other part of
the parking lot. The only option would be to turn around there.
Prather: Councilman, yes, that's correct. There wouldn't be enough room.
Zaremba: If the fire and police department go with that, I certainly could go with that.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Borton.
Borton: I'm by no means a traffic engineer or designer, but I'm going to try.
Rountree: Oops.
Borton: Is there an opportunity --
De Weerd: An attorney. Oh, my gosh.
Meridian City Council
August 21, 2007
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Bird: You're in trouble.
Borton: And this goes back to why I -- you know, and I know delays are a pain and I
can tell you I don't have any problems with the range of building that you're trying to
present and I think Councilman Rountree's pretty much alleviated my concerns with the
fact that you have made those representations. Is there a way to make this -- I wouldn't
know the term for it -- sort of -- kind of the opposite of a right-in, right-out, which requires
truck traffic to only turn left, so they couldn't go through and vice-versa, if you're coming
in you could only turn right. I don't know if the topography allows for that. I'm just not
thinking that we have a pedestrian bike access adjacent to a semi turnaround.
Prather: Madam Mayor, Councilman Borton, it's been -- it's been talked of. If I hear
your question right, what do we do. Will the pedestrians be harmed there you mean
because of the trucks turning around? Is that what your -- your question is?
Borton: Sore of.
Prather: Well, first of all, we have to, obviously, get trucks in and out of there to load at
back of the buildings.
Borton: Sure.
Prather: Our thinking is -- is button this up and just bring the pedestrians down here
and, then, straight out to here.
Borton: Okay.
Prather: And that way -- and, again, truck traffic is limited not only to the time of day,
but to the number of trips. I mean this was -- this is maybe three or four trucks a day on
a busy day and most likely early in the morning. Now, as far as -- as you said that,
Councilman Borton, I'm thinking out loud that if -- if we leave this open there may be a
way of shoving people right up here. If this is allowed to go through I believe Jim Kouril
is right, they will just opt here, go out, and then up. And that -- and that's, I think,
something we all want to stay away from. But I believe, knowing the developer here, if
this was -- if we did away with this, we could probably force them up here and have
something here to prevent them from going from the back side of Lowe's. That's a
possibility. But, of course, I'd have to talk to them on that.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
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August 21, 2007
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Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, if -- I guess if Mrs. Canning thinks that
she has enough direction from the Council to create findings about that particular
access point. If your comfort level is wanting to actually see that rendering before you
finally approve it, we have some time between now, those findings coming back to you
in two weeks, the development agreement that normally takes at least one more week
to come and if it's -- if it is a fairly minor change I don't know if Mr. Prather's able to -- be
able to -- and Mr. Stanfield be able to bring that back to you in about four weeks is when
we would be bringing it back to attach it to the development agreement as to what those
changes are. If you also want the -- instead of 15 percent increase, up to 30 percent
increase I think is what, approximately, the building size would be, if you want that to be,
you know, in relation to the other buildings along that rear property line, we could
certainly put that in the development agreement. If you want a rendering to that, again,
we are about a month out, approximately, before we -- for bringing that final
development agreement and annexation ordinance back. I don't know if that's adequate
timing at least to answer some of your questions, but that at least stays on track and we
can still get the findings accomplished and they can get a drawing and they could be
done and that way we don't put it off for two weeks for that and, then, another month
anyway.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Nary.
Stanfield: Some day I'll sit down. I think what Council --
De Weerd: If you will just state your name again for the record.
Stanfield: Scott Stanfield. Counsel Nary was leading to a -- if I understood him correct -
- move ahead with the annexation, but prior to the findings we submit the detailed
drawing, just like we are talking to tonight, just like we are going to be subject to through
the DA.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, exactly. What the normal process would
be is if the Council were to approve this tonight with the directions of whatever changes
they wanted in the development agreement and the findings, then, it normally is at least
two weeks before the findings get back for final approval and it's at least one additional
week to get the development agreement prepared, sometimes two, depending on
holidays and the like. So, we would want that final rendering as part of the development
agreement, but you need it tonight and you don't need it -- I was just trying to avoid a
two week delay and, then, three or four weeks out.
Stanfield: That's a good middle ground, because as most of you may know, the tenants
or the buyers of these particular big box -- they are really hard to talk to until you show
them, yes, we are annexed -- yes, here is the minutes, now it's just a formality. So, two
weeks may not seem like a big deal, but it really is a big deal to delay large projects like
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August 21, 2007
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this and maybe that is a middle ground and I think that would be perfect. If we don't get
it in on time that's our fault, we have no one to blame but ourselves.
Bird: I have no problem with that.
De Weerd: Mrs. Canning.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, that's fine. Probably what I would
recommend is not to put the findings on the Consent Agenda, to have them on the
regular agenda, because I have not understood this truck turnaround with a connection,
but without a connection discussion at all. So, I will -- if we can just not but it on the
Consent Agenda and, then, I will just have you review that site plan before you adopt
the findings that night, I think that that would be appropriate. And I wanted to apologize
for seeming argumentative and I -- it's just we don't like to give our applicants surprises
at hearings and, likewise, we don't like to receive surprises at hearings, so it's a little
frustrating, but it does sound like he's worked with the neighbors and has indicated a
larger building may be possible. So, that was my primary concern.
De Weerd: It's actually the first tag team of developer, engineer, and homeowners
association spokes person I have ever seen. So, it's greatly appreciated, so -- okay.
Anything further?
Prather: Just for clarity, Madam Mayor, if that is Council's wishes, when will this be
heard again? Because we will be with --
Bird: Madam Mayor --
De Weerd: It sounds like the option is they can make a decision tonight and on
presentation of the findings your engineer would provide a drawing of what that
turnaround might look like.
Prather: Very well.
De Weerd: Okay. Okay. Anything further from Council?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: The hearing is still open.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird.
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August 21, 2007
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Bird: If nobody needs anymore public testimony, I move we close the Public Hearing on
AZ 07-009.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to close the Public Hearing on Item
12. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Okay. Any discussion?
Rountree: Madam Mayor, it's been said, but I want to say it again. I appreciate the
homeowners association doing the due diligence and taking the time to find a solution
that's amenable to them and I appreciate the applicant for listening and incorporating
those into their development. That's something that occasionally we are here until 1:00
o'clock in the morning trying to resolve and don't usually get it done. So, again,
appreciation from me and I think the rest of the Council.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I'd echo Councilman Rountree's words also, but also if we have no more
discussion, I will attempt to make a motion, with the help of all the rest of you, if you
want to jump in. I move that we approve AZ 07-009, the request of annexation and
zoning for 22.67 acres from R-1 to C-G zone for Queenland Acres by James Prather,
with a large pad not to exceed 170,000 square feet; Alaska Way to not be a through
street, it will be only pedestrian friendly, and the location of it will depend on the next
conceptual site drawings that we see on how we put the semi truck road in to the south.
I believe the six foot block wall was already in the findings; am I not right? Help me,
Anna, if I'm leaving anything out. The road between the two properties going north and
south will not be a continuous road at the very bottom -- or at the very south and the
road at the south going east-west will not be a continuous road through the property. Is
there anything else? And to include all staff, application, and public testimony. Did I
leave anything out?
Borton: Second for discussion purposes.
De Weerd: Yes.
Zaremba: I would just clarify with the maker that Alaska Road or Alaska Way, whatever
it is, along with any of the pedestrian access, should also be an emergency access.
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August 21, 2007
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Bird: Yes. Yes. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's going to be wide enough to be emergency.
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Bird: Oh. And the pads would be five pads within the development.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: I think he said four to six.
Bird: Oh, four to six.
Borton: Yeah. If the motion maker would amend the motion to allow flexibility of the DA
for no less than four, no more than six.
Bird: I agree with that. That's one thing I forgot.
De Weerd: And just -- Mr. Bird, clarification on all staff and applicant and public
comments. That would include the photos that were show that showed the pedestrian
walkway, the --
Bird: And the buffer zone.
De Weerd: The buffer zone and the quality of the --
Zaremba: And the treatment on the back of the building.
Bird: And I believe the applicant testified that that's what he was going to do.
De Weerd: Well, just specifying what all that meant.
Bird: That's true.
De Weerd: Okay. How is that, Anna? Do you have --
Canning: Madam Mayor, could you go through that list again? The quality -- the one
that I was concerned about -- because there was testimony and not much commitment
one way or the other, was the appearance of the back of the building. Are we looking
for specifically a concrete block, not a tilt up? I wasn't sure where that conversation was
going with when that --
Bird: I -- as the maker of the motion, I would like to see the block, but if he gets a tenant
that does tilt up -- you can decorate the back of tilt up very nice. I can't think of any
other than the one target at Chinden and Eagle that has done that to the back of their
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August 21, 2007
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building and so I would say that he's got to bring it in to be design reviewed anyway, so
we can argue that at that point. Right now all I want to do is just get him annexed, so he
has something to go out there and sell his product and there -- and I'm telling you, you
know, there is a building right to the southeast of this, it's a tilt up -- it's a church that
looks very very nice. I have seen some awful nice tilt ups Okay. So, that's the motion.
Rountree: Whatever.
Bird: Whatever. Until they are able to come back for design and review anyway.
De Weerd: It's in your lap.
Bird: In your lap. Do you want roses growing out of it?
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, could I ask for clarification on the
last clarification? Councilmember Bird, could we -- would you want to include some
horizontal banding and variety of materials along the back wall to meet that concern?
Bird: If you do a tilt up, it's kind of hard to intermix materials, but you can do some
banding and some decorative stuff within it. And, yes, I would have no problem with
that. But if he puts the buffer up like they did over -- Bear Creek is not going to see it,
for the fact is this is going to be five feet lower, probably, than what Lowe's is because
of the elevation difference. This ground didn't sit in a gully like the other ground did.
But, yes, they can do some density stuff on the back and I'm sure he will do that.
Rountree: He will now that it's in the findings.
De Weerd: Did second agree with whatever has been decided?
Borton: I think so.
De Weerd: I guess the pictures are what they are looking at if there is deviation that's
significant. Okay. Okay. Anything else, Council? Okay. Mr. Berg, will you, please,
call roll. Unless you want to repeat the motion first.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 13: Public Hearing: RZ 07-012 Request for Rezone of approximately 22.7
acres from an R-8 to a C-G zone for Valley Shepherd on Meridian by the
Valley Shepherd Church of the Nazarene -150 West Maestra:
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August 21, 2007
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De Weerd: Thank you. Item 13 is a Public Hearing on RZ 07-012. I will open this
Public Hearing with staff comments.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is the Valley Shepherd on
Meridian project. As you know, Valley Shepherd's new facility is being constructed on
Meridian Road approximately a half mile south of Overland. The application before you
tonight is for a rezone. The church is requesting a rezone to C-G of approximately 22.7
acres of property currently zoned R-8. The applicant has received prior conditional use
approval for the church in an R-8 zone and the applicant requests a rezone to allow for
electronic signage and recreational activities on site. A church is a principally permitted
use in all of the commercial zones and that's L-O, C-N, C-C, and C-G. I do have some
elevations of site proposed. The nighttime view is a little hard to see, apologize for that.
And, then, this would be the electronic portion of the reader board. The Commission
recommended approval at their July 19th, 2007, Public Hearing. Brad Hoaglun, church
board member, spoke in favor of the application. Shawna Gardner, Kathleen James,
and Jim Kouril, Deborah Ross, Darleen Wheeler, and Michelle Bonner all spoke in
opposition. Larry Kelly commented. And we received written testimony from Brian
Beckley, vice-president of Bear Creek Homeowners Association with a letter and
petition containing 236 signatures. So, it was -- the same petition covered both the
Queenland Acres and this project. Key issues of discussion by the Commission
included the increase in traffic to the adjacent residences, the allowed signage for the L-
Oand C-G zoning districts, specifically with regard to electronic reader boards, and
impact the future commercial developments may have on existing residences. The key
Commission changes to staffs initial recommendation -- the Commission was in favor of
changing the zoning from C-G to L-O and having the L-O sign standard apply to the
property. The outstanding issue before City Council is the question of what is the
appropriate zoning for this site. They do have a development agreement -- or staff has
proposed a development agreement that contains the following site specific provisions.
that the following shall be only -- the only allowed uses on the property, church, religious
place of worship, and ancillary church celebrative and recreational activities. No retail
or service uses or conditionally allowed commercial uses are permitted on this property.
Second one would be future development of the property shall remain consistent with
the site and landscaping plans approved with the CUP 05-058. And, third, any
proposed change in use of the property shall require public hearings before the
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission and City Council. Said hearing shall consist
of modifications to the development agreement and the existing conditional use permit
in effect for the sight. We did receive written testimony since the staff report was written
and that letter was from the Valley Shepherd building committee, with a cover letter
from Pastor Johnson. And with that I will answer any questions that the Council may
have.
De Weerd: Thank you, Anna. Any questions of staff at this time?
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August 21, 2007
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Bird: Madam Mayor, I do.
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: On that letter that you're stating from the building committee, was that the one
signed by Keith Ricketts?
De Weerd: Yes.
Canning: I can look it up, but I have heard yes from someone else. Thank you.
Bird: That's -- I thought it was, but I just wanted to clarify.
De Weerd: Okay. Anything further?
Bird: I have nothing.
De Weerd: Okay. Would the applicant like to come forward.
Hoaglun: Madam Mayor, Members of the City Council, my name is Brad Hoaglun. I
reside at 2470 West Tressle Drive here in Meridian. I am a board member of Valley
Shepherd Church of the Nazarene. Also serve on the building committee. I think most
of you are familiar with Valley Shepherd Church of the Nazarene. They are right across
the street. And last fall we celebrated our 90th anniversary in this community and we
believe we are a congregation that's very involved in the activities of this community and
we have served and will continue to serve at our new location the needs of this fine
community. Some of those activities that we participate in -- we serve as a polling place
here in the city. We host blood drives. We sponsor the annual chili feed and auction to
raise money for school supplies for children in the school district and I know some of
you have participated in that and thank you and we will be doing that again. In previous
years we have partnered with the Meridian Parks and Recreation to sponsor an Easter
egg hunt in Bear Creek park and this year we had over 600 children and their parents
participate in that event. We also sponsor -- have sponsored a scout troop. We provide
meeting spaces for the school district. We host the annual Thanksgiving concert.
Provide space for support groups, such as Alcoholics Anonymous, just to name a few
things. And although we are moving to this new location, we are still going to be
involved in the community in that manner and, in fact, there will be -- with this new
facility more enhanced ways to serve the community with this beautiful facility. But as
we looked at our location being on a state highway, we realized that we will need
signage that not only identifies us as Valley Shepherd Church of Nazarene, but also a
way to provide information about these activities that will be going on at the church.
Well, as we looked at signage options we discovered two things. Number one, our
current zoning designation does not allow signage and, number two, that electronic
reader board was the best way to go for our signage needs. I want to emphasize this
Meridian City Council
August 21, 2007
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right away. Our proposed electronic reader board is text only, it is not graphics, it is not
video. Some of you may recall as you head east on the freeway the vet center there,
it's a very involved reader board and that's not what we are proposing. It is text only. It
would be conventional two line horizontal reader board and if the Council would
consider granting this signage, we are not opposed to language that would limit it to text
only. That is something that we don't even have a problem with. The reason for an
electronic sign. Of course, they are much easier to change the message, as opposed to
a manual reader board. The ability it provides for having multiple messages, instead of
just one that may stay up there. I think you may find a few reader boards in town that
are still touting last winter's sale. And also a cleaner, more attractive look to the sign.
We have a beautiful facility as has been alluded to by Councilman Bird. We are very
pleased with how it's looking. We have a sign that we think is going to match that. The
reader board is -- the electronic is much cleaner. In fact, coming into town today I was
kind of looking for examples and there is one right on Main Street, two competing
businesses, both in the same industry, you have Wendy's on one side with an electronic
reader board and you have the Dairy Queen with the manual reader board. Now, I'm
not saying which I like better -- it's actually Dairy Queen. I like their ice cream pretty
well. But the Wendy's board is a much nicer, more professional, cleaner sign and that's
what we want to have, we want to have something that looks good. And this is also the
direction of the sign industry. I did some research. Time-o-matic, it's a national sign
company that's been doing signs since 1932, and I'll quote from their national sales
manager where he said: At least 90 percent -- and I'm quoting here -- of Time-o-matic
sales are directed to the message center reader boards. And that's what they mean by
electronic reader boards. The major customers for these boards are banks, retail
businesses, churches, and schools. The latter two using them as public service
announcement displays. And this is the type of sign -- and that's an end quote right
there. The latter two using them as public service announcement displays. And that's
what we want to use our reader board for is public service announcements. And the
only reason we are seeking this zoning change is because it's one of the few
designations, other than I think industry, that will allow electronic reader board signs.
During our Planning and Zoning Commission hearing staff did inform the Commission
that schools and churches are the two areas that are kind of outside of what the zoning
requirements allow to have reader boards. So, we are kind of the exception to the rule.
We really don't want C-G. We don't want to create a big box retail store. We don't want
to do something with the rest of our property that neighbors don't want and we certainly
don't want. If you look at the message board at Meridian High School, although they
have this message board and maybe the zoning that went along with that, they are not
going to have any commercial general zoning taking place right there. They want to
inform the public of the activities that are going on at their facility. We want to do the
same thing on a state highway. So, we don't want to have any change in the use of our
property, other than to do normal church activities. Now, we understand that neighbors,
because we do have some vacant property there, how do we protect them and assure
them that -- that we want to be good neighbors and not have something happen that
would compromise their value in their property. Planning and Zoning staff had
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August 21, 2007
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recommended approval of a request to the Commission with the condition that we sign
an addendum to our development agreement with the city. Well, we want to assure
them, our neighbors that we do not want to put in big big retail on our remaining
property. So, to legally assure them of our intentions, we are quite willing to sign that
DA and move forward with whatever conditions that you want to add to or that the
Planning and Zoning staff has recommended and use our property as a church worship
and ancillary church celebrative and recreational activities. It would also require us, if
we desire to build on the remaining property in the future, that public hearings would be
held to allow for input from our neighbors and we do want to be good neighbors and we
want them to be pleased with the quality of our church facility and the surrounding
property. We don't know what we are going to use that future property for. That's down
the road. The only thing we have talked about right now is, well, let's landscape it and
there is a program called Upward Soccer, as well as Upward Basketball, things like that.
Maybe we can do something like that. Ten years from now who knows. Maybe we
want to expand and build something there. We think the neighbors should have a say
in that. We want to make sure that they are pleased with what we are going to be
putting in and that they have input on that, so we have no problems with having that in
the DA. There was a petition that circulated the neighborhood that opposed the
rezoning request for both Queenland Development and our request. Now, whether the
neighbors were signing it opposing one or the other we don't know or whether it was
both. What we do know it wasn't against the sign, it was -- as Mr. Kouril said earlier as
he testified at P&Z is buffer zones, the planning and ability to put in a big box retail, you
know, concerns that all neighbors would have when they are up against that type of
zoning. But, again, I can't stress enough that change in the zoning designation will not
change the use of this property. We are just seeking this change for the sign. Staff did
talk about city code and how do they allow this for schools and churches and there was
a discussion about, you know, we probably need to take a look at this and do some
things, you know, that's something that staff -- I'm sure their plate is full, but you guys
may have to look at this down the road, but until that time comes I guess this is the
route we have to go just to get an electronic sign, if that's acceptable to you. At the
Planning and Zoning hearing there was an issue about traffic. Neighbors aren't happy
about the access for the church and through their subdivision and, frankly, we agree
with them. That was not our choice for how the traffic was to go. And, Mrs. Canning, I
don't know, do you have the schematic for the property that shows the accesses in and
out? Yes. Thank you. Meridian Road right here we have a park facility here. Our
parking lot we access this. And this is West Maistra right here that accesses -- there is
left and right turn lanes here onto Meridian Road. There is also through Strada
Bellissima that comes out, winds -- take a right turn and, then, a left and puts you out on
Victory Road. And we can understand their concern about that, because there will
probably be folks going out to Victory Road through that property. As I said earlier, we
were looking earlier of aligning a road right here and meeting up with a developer on the
other side and having a light put in. We also were exploring options of down here. This
was not our first choice. In fact, it wasn't even one of our choices. But ITD and ACHD
said there is development that's going in here on your property, we will share West
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August 21, 2007
Page 56 of 67
Maistra. So, that was that. And I wish we could do something about that and that was
probably the vast majority of the comments were focused on that. But, again, whether
our zoning change is approved or not, that does nothing about this situation. And
maybe down the road we will take a look at maybe opening up where we have parking
area, doing a right turn to relieve that if that -- if that does appear to be a problem. But,
again, we are going to work with our neighbors to limit the impact as much as we can
through their subdivision and we are going to -- we want to be good neighbors. It's
rather Biblical about loving your neighbor and if we can't do that I guess we better
change the business we are in. So, anyway, with that, Madam Mayor and Members of
the City Council, I would be happy to answer any questions you might have for us. And
before I do that, I do have one thing I want to show you and I hope I don't surprise Mrs.
Canning too much. She showed you a picture of that. Our architect had looked at that
where the original proposal was to put the sign and the elevations, with the sidewalk
and different things -- he's recommending that we move that to this location here, just
on this side of the building, but by doing that he said that would -- he would like to see
us elevate that sign a little bit. Now, this is an elevation of that. As you can see, a
person about six foot tall, that will be about 12 feet high. Very similar to what you saw in
the drawing for this part. Other than that it is up in the air. The architect believed the
monument sign would not be seen on -- at that -- at that low level. And, again, this is
the nighttime view of it. It would be two lines of -- at nine inch height for -- for that. So,
that is something that he has given us and said he would like to see and at the risk of
upsetting the Planning and Zoning director, that's our latest proposal here. So, with that
I would be happy to answer any questions.
De Weerd: Council, any questions at this point?
Bird: I have none.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Borton: Does Will or Anna have a copy of that? I just want to make sure.
Prather: We will make sure that George Zickefoose, our administrative pastor, is -- had
walked one over here, so we will make -- it's probably in the -- in the file, so --
Canning: Madam Mayor, we did receive those. I did not understand them to be new
elevations.. I don't think anyone looked at them. t think we thought they were just
copies of the -- what had been proposed. But we did receive those this morning.
De Weerd: Thank you. Any other questions?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
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August 21, 2007
Page 57 of 67
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Probably a question of staff and maybe even the fire or police department.
And it was that last rendering of the sign that made me think of it. There is a
requirement that the address be on a sign like that, which brings me to the question
what is your address? You have no entrance on Meridian Road. What are we doing
about that?
Prather: Madam Mayor, Councilmember Zaremba, yes. Our address we thought all
along would be a North Meridian Road address. It is 150 West Maistra, because the
official entrance is off of West Maistra right here and that is the address we have been
assigned is 150 West Maistra.
Zaremba: So, it wouldn't make sense to put that on your sign probably.
Prather: Madam Mayor, Mr. -- Councilman Zaremba, it will provide some marketing
challenges, if you will, in terms of getting people to -- we are on North Meridian Road
and with the address here and here is how you access the property. It will add to the
challenges. I think with signage, though, if that is required, it will have to be on there,
150 West Maistra. So, it will be on there.
Zaremba: Just as I thought, much of that is solved if you actually have a road here, but
I think I have lost that battle.
De Weerd: That's kicking a dead horse.
Zaremba: I know, but I have to kick. I like horses, but I have to kick.
Prather: We understand.
De Weerd: Okay. Anything else from the Council?
Rountree: Madam Mayor, f don't have any specifics on the new sign submittal, but I
don't want to assume that it meets the sign criteria of the city. I would like verification
that it does. I suspect it does, but I don't know.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the church is not asking for approval
of this sign tonight. It's not one of your --
Rountree: It's just a reader board.
Canning: It's just a rezone.
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August 21, 2007
Page 58 of 67
Rountree: Rezone. Okay.
De Weerd: Okay. Anything else? Thank you.
Prather: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. This is a Public Hearing and I do have a number of people that
signed up in favor of this application. When I read your name, if you would like to
provide testimony, you're certainly invited to come forward at that time. Jim Perrell
signed up for. Mark Johnson signed up for. Kimberly Johnson signed for. Gerald
Johnson signed up for. Do you have anything you would like to add? George
Zickefoose signed up for. Bob Marsland signed up for. And Keith Ricketts signed up
for. Okay. Is there anyone else who would like to provide testimony on this
application? Okay. Any concluding remarks, Mr. Hoaglun? Okay. Thank you. Any
questions?
Rountree: I'd just throw some testimony -- and it's not necessarily how I will vote, but as
a driver of the corridor, you folks have done an outstanding job in designing and
creating a new architectural element in that corridor and in our community. I would
hope before you put up any sign that it be mocked up and stuck where ever it's
supposedly going to go, so you don't render what right now is quite a wonderful visual
experience and spoil it with maybe something that's not quite in taste with what you
have done. But you will do that later on.
De Weerd: A great suggestion. Okay. Anything further from Council?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Just because you gave me the opportunity, just comment a moment on some
of what was discussed in the committee that was writing the new Unified Development
Code. In trying to determine what was an appropriate zone for churches, we settled on
L-O as the most appropriate zone and we made the assumption that if a church were
annexing and asking for a zone they would ask for L-O and that was going to be the end
of it until somebody said, well, there are a number of churches that start their business
by renting a cheap industrial space or renting some other commercial space and, in
fact, you really have to allow a church to be in every zone. So, I guess I'm commenting
on the fact the Planning and Zoning Commission has suggested that this be changed to
L-O instead of what the application is requesting. We did feel that L-O was, actually,
the appropriate zone if a church were asking for a zone, but if the zone was already
there they could go into any zone. So, the end result was that the UDC is actually
written so that a church can be anywhere, except on residential zones. And I guess
what I'm saying is I no longer have an opinion whether this should be C-G or L-O.
Meridian City Council
August 21, 2007
Page 59 of 67
Canning: Madam Mayor?
Rountree: Thank you very much.
Zaremba: But I just wanted to tell you how we got there.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I think I need to explain -- and
maybe the applicant can help me out, because -- but my understanding is the L-O does
not have any reader board allowances. So, the change to L-O is significant for the
application. It would allow a manual reader board, but not an electronic reader board.
Nary: Sounds like a lawyer.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you for that clarification.
Bird: t was going to say, is she in the wrong profession? That sounded like an attorney.
De Weerd: Okay.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, if there is no further testimony, I would move that we close
the Public Hearing for Item 13.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. f have a motion and a second to close the Public Hearing on Item
13. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: t move that we approve Item 13, RZ 07-012, with the comments from the
applicant and the stipulations for the DA as presented by staff.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to approve Item 13.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor, discussion?
De Weerd: Yes.
Meridian City Council
August 21, 2007
Page 60 of 67
Zaremba: Just clarification that you are specifying the C-G as the new zone.
Rountree: Yes.
Zaremba: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I believe the recommendation that's
before you is for L-O.
Rountree: L-O.
Canning: So, you will need to specifically change that.
De Weerd: Okay. So, we will -- you're asking to draw up corrected findings.
Bird: You're changing it to C-G; right?
Nary: No. The L-O.
Bird: L-O?
De Weerd: No.
Rountree: No.
Nary: Oh, no. It's C-G.
Zaremba: They applied for C-G. The Commission changed it to L-O and we are
changing it back.
Rountree: And we are changing it back to C-G. Yes.
De Weerd: Okay.
Bird: Second agrees.
Rountree: But the DA stipulations --
Bird: Yeah.
De Weerd: Okay. Okay. Any other discussion? Mr. Berg?
Meridian City Council
August 21, 2007
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Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Thank you. And our final item, No. 14 --
Canning: Madam Mayor, before we move onto that one, Can I just get some
clarification? In looking at this development agreement none of the provisions for the
development agreement specifically state L-O, but my understanding is Council wants
to keep those development agreement provisions, but just change the zone back to C-
G.
Rountree: Yes.
De Weerd: Okay.
Canning: Okay.
De Weerd: Okay.
Rountree: Unless we can't do that.
Canning: No. You can.
Rountree: Okay.
Item 14: Public Hearing: PP 07-006 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 7
single family residential building lots and 2 common area lots on 1.96
acres in an R-4 zone for Moose Creek Subdivision by Moose Creek
Construction - 4275 N. Jones Creek Lane:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 14 is a Public Hearing, PP 07-006. I will open this Public
Hearing with staff comments.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is the Moose Creek project. It's
located on the south side of Cherry Lane about a third of a mile east of Black Cat Road.
The application before you tonight is solely a preliminary plat. They are requesting
approval of six single family residential lots and one common lot on 1.96 acres. The
Moose Creek Subdivision has been previously platted as Lot 2, Block 1, of Heartstone
Subdivision and is currently zoned R-4. Did want to point out one key feature of the
site. It's encumbered by a private lane easement in favor of the property owners to the
south, the Joneses, and the easement is -- was approved as a private street in Ada
County. It's 20 feet of asphalt with an approved fire department turnaround. And you
Meridian City Council
August 21, 2007
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see that hammerhead at the end. The applicant and staff have worked with the
Joneses to the south to determine the best possible design of Moose Creek which will
facilitate the easiest redevelopment of that property. That is important in that this
application was accepted in January of this year and is before you tonight, so it has
gone through a lot of changes and various layouts to see the one you have before you
tonight. So, these are the six residential lots. One. Two. Three. Four. Five. Six.
Sorry. One. Two. Three. Four. Five. Six. And, then, the one common lot which
borders Cherry Lane. The gross residential density is 3.06 units per acre. I do have
some elevations for you. These are three different building styles. You will see that
there is six different building styles, all the front elevation. We have 12 fronts. I'm not
sure what's going on there. So, maybe Ms. Whitehead can explain that. The
Commission recommended approval at their July 19th, 2007, Public Hearing. Sabrina
Whitehead, the applicant's representative, spoke in favor of the application. No one
spoke in opposition. Teri Jones, the neighbor to the south, did comment and did
provide written testimony. Key issues of discussion by the Commission were that the
neighbor is amenable to vacating their interest in Jones Creek Lane and the underlying
ingress-egress easement across the Moose Creek property and the second issue of
discussion was a permanent perimeter fencing is to be installed. The key Commission
changes to staffs recommendation were that the application provide a permanent six
foot vinyl perimeter fencing around the subdivision. And we have listed the Joneses as
an outstanding issue, just because we'd like to have an update on the status of that
relationship and how things are progressing. And, then, there is an outstanding issue
related to the out-parcel, where it says not a part. The out-parcel to the northeast of this
development is a drain field on the Moose Creek property. The preliminary plat shows
services being stubbed to the out-parcel, but makes no mention of who will pay for the
assessments and the actual physical connection to city services. The applicant should
clarify tonight who will pay the sewer and water assessments and pay for the actual
physical connection of the out-parcel to the city services. We have not received any
additional testimony since the staff report was written and with that I will answer any
questions Council may have.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you, Anna. Any comments or questions from Council at this
time?
Bird: I don't, Mayor.
De Weerd: Okay. Is the application here? Good evening.
Whitehead: Good evening, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. For the record, my
name is Sabrina Whitehead and I'm here on behalf of Moose Creek Construction and
Briggs Engineering. My business address is 1800 West Overland Road, Boise, Idaho.
83705.
De Weerd: Thank you.
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August 21, 2007
Page 63 of 67
Whitehead: And this evening before you, as Anna stated, we are doing an in-fill project
that is south of Cherry Lane and west of North Summertree and it consists of
approximately 1.96 acres, with a current zoning of R-4. And as Anna mentioned, This
application was submitted quite awhile ago. We have been in ongoing discussions with
the neighbor to the south, Mrs. Jones, and I am elated to state that we are in
negotiations to having the easement vacated to allow this project to continue. One of
the exhibits that Planning and Zoning received on July 19th was, basically, an
agreement -- basically stating some civil issues that Mrs. Jones would like to see in
order for the easement to be vacated. While these are civil issues, we don't need to go
in depth tonight. I do want to state that condition number 2.7 states: Prior to the
signature of the final plat the applicant shall submit documentation that the private drive
easement through Lot 2, Block 1, will be vacated and this will be done prior to the final
plat. This will help to insure the city that this easement will be vacated. So, just to
discuss the project at hand, including this easement, as mentioned here is Cherry Lane.
North Summertree. This will be Jones Creek. Therefore, the Joneses will be able to
keep their current address. This will be a public road that will be stubbing to the west.
A snoopy turnaround providing that it has received the fire department's
recommendation of approval. One of the other issues is Public Works wanted me to
mention -- actually, two issues that I need to bring up. This outparcel right here, Moose
Creek Construction, the developers, will be tying that not a part lot to sewer and water
services. They will be paying for the fees as well. So, it will be at our developer's
expense for that site. Also, we will be stubbing sewer services and water to this lot on
the west for when that lot at that time redeveloped. As mentioned, we will be providing
a six foot private vinyl fencing on the perimeter of the property, as well as meeting all
requirements the City of Meridian would have as far as all agencies. A few other key
points. ACHD and the City of Meridian will be very happy to know that this easement
will be vacated, therefore, limiting direct access onto Cherry Lane, which, of course, as
you know, will make it safer for the area. The site will also be providing pressurized
irrigation. A pump house will be located in this area on the Jones's property. This will
be maintained by Moose Creek's HOA, as well as the Joneses. I believe the location of
the pump house is for one day when Mrs. Jones does redevelop her property, that she
will be able to punch into the pump house for the pressurized irrigation. Overall, this is
going to be a really quality development. It's a nice in-fill site that we are providing
many requirements that the city wants, stubbing to the west and to the south for when --
when these parcels do redevelop. Two, again, as stated, we are limiting access onto
Cherry, which is going to make this area safer. It's been an ongoing project. It's had
many bumps in the road and I'm excited to get to this point. Mrs. Jones is here to
discuss her position on the relinquishment of the easement. And with that I will thank
you for your time and consideration and I will stand for any questions that you may
have.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions?
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August 21, 2007
Page 64 of 67
Bird: I have none.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Zaremba: Just one and this is actually off of your property, but since you're going to use
Summertree as an access, somewhere in the process this was discussed as a one-way,
counterclockwise circle, so that traffic would have to come in and traffic leaving would
have to do this. Did that get changed? Is this -- this Summertree portion next to that
island a sufficient two way street?
Whitehead: Councilmember Zaremba, you know, I apologize, I was not aware that that
was a one way.
Zaremba: It may have gotten changed before this --
Whitehead: Sure. Absolutely. The residents that will be using it will just -- we are
dedicating an additional ten feet right of way to make this a full street. So, I would
believe that it wouldn't need to be one way. We are dedicating the remaining portion of
that to make that street complete.
Zaremba: Okay.
Whitehead: But maybe Anna could shed some light on that.
Canning: Sabrina knows my deep dark secret. I happen to be acquainted with the
planner who processed that application to the other side and I don't believe it was ever
a two-way street -- or a one-way street. They talked about it briefly, but I think we
convinced them -- I think I convinced them that it didn't need to be, that because it was
just for the local traffic that there was sufficient room. They did restrict parking, so --
Zaremba: My memory isn't that it ended up that way, Ijust -- I remembered some
discussion about it and wanted to make sure it didn't end up that way, so I think it didn't
end up that way.
Whitehead: Any other questions at this time?
Rountree: Madam Mayor'?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: This entire parcel will be a common lot owned by the homeowners and will
this portion that's now an access point be landscaped consistent with the entire --
Meridian City Council
August 21, 2007
Page 65 of 67
Whitehead: Yes. Councilman Rountree that will be an entire landscape buffer.
Absolutely. Yes.
De Weerd: Okay. Anything further from Council? Thank you. Teri Jones. If you will,
please, state your name and address for the record.
Jones: Teri Jones. 1490 North Jones Creek. Good evening, Madam Mayor and City
Council. Everybody. Anna. This has been a long process and we are excited to be
done and we are currently in negotiation. We do have several items that -- it's at an
attorney right now, just because we want them to bond for the issues that we want to
see performed for us to give away our easement on this, so that we are protecting
ourselves just for the future for that. So, we are happy about where we are at with this.
De Weerd: Good. Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none.
Zaremba: I was just going to comment on the wisdom of that. We have in the past had
agreements from people that we agreed with and trusted and, then, they sold the
property and somebody else didn't have the same thing in writing, so --
Jones: Right. Right. Well, we just did
--and that's it. I thank you for your time.
it just to be smart and just be business smart, so
De Weerd: Very good. Thank you.
Jones: Okay. Thanks.
De Weerd: Okay. This is a Public Hearing. Is there anyone who would like to provide
testimony on this application? You don't have to.
Stanfield: I'm the big commercial developer to the west -- no. Scott Stanfield. 314
Badiola. I don't want to surprise the applicant tonight, this all just kind of happened in a
roundtable that we had for my client's project, which is due west of here and, then, it
was discovered that this hearing was tonight and so I grabbed ahold of the preliminary
plat. Their preliminary plat doesn't show the sewer main stubbing to the west and that's
where we would have to get sewer from. That's really our only option. And typically --
and this is probably the case that Len has a condition in there that says stub to and
through. So, I just want to make sure the city follows that typical policy of to and
through, number one. But, number two, that that to and through be done when the main
sewer is done, so a spite strip isn't created.
Meridian City Council
August 21, 2007
Page 66 of 67
De Weerd: And she -- they did mention in their testimony that they are stubbing to the
west.
Stanfield: Okay. That's it.
De Weerd: So --
Stanfield: With that I will sit down.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Any other testimony? Final comments?
Whitehead: For the record again, Sabrina Whitehead. Just to clarify to that -- I think it
was just an oversight on the preliminary plat that we didn't stub that to the west. Our
construction plans will absolutely document that stub for when they do their future
development. So, I just wanted to say it on the record one more time. Other that than,
I'll stand for any questions and thanks for your for time.
De Weerd: Thank you. Anything further from Council?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Staff? No. Okay. If there is no further testimony or need for
information, I would entertain a motion to close.
Rountree: So moved.
Bird: So moved. Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the Public Hearing on Item 14. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Unless there is some discussion, I move that we approve Item 14, PP 07-
006.
Bird: Second.
Meridian City Council
August 21, 2007
Page 67 of 67
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to approve Item 14 to include
testimony by the applicant, staff comments, and any public comments; correct?
Rountree: Always.
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Berg, will you, please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, you do have the draft letter in front of you. If you will take a
few moments, look it over, we will try and get signatures tonight.
Bird: I'd like to, yeah.
De Weerd: With that I would entertain a motion to close.
Borton: So moved.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. All those in -- oh. Motion to adjourn. All those in favor say aye. All
ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: We are adjourned.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 10:27 A.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
APPROVED:
MA
de WEERD
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DATE APPROVED
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