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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1996 07-10MERIDIAN CITY GCUNCIL AGENDA ~1lEDNESDAY, JULY 15,1995-1:3a P.M. CITY GCUNCIL CHAMBERS MINUTES OF PREVIOUS MEETING HELD JUNE 18, 1996: (APPROVED) 1. TABLED JUNE 4,1995: FINAL PLAT: FIELDSTONE MEADOWS NO.5 SUBDIVISION BY GARY VGIGT: STABLED UNTIL AUGUST 5,199fi} 2. TABLED JUNE 4,1996; LATE CGMERS AGREEMENT FGR GEMTONE CENTER NO.2: CITY ATTORNEY TG NEGOTIATE COMMENTS FOR APPROVAL} 3. TABLED JUNE 18, 1996: PRELIMINARY PLAT FOR THE LAKE AT CHERRY LANE NO. 6 BY STEINER DEVELOPMENT: (APPROVED) 4. TABLED JUNE 18, 1996: FINAL PLAT: PACKARD SUBDIVISION NO. 1 BY PNE/EDMONDS CONSTRUCTION: (APPROVED WITH CONDITIONS) 5. PUBLIC HEARING CONTINUED FROM JUNE 18, 1996: REQUEST FOR A PRELIMINARY PLAT FOR HONOR PARK NO. 3 SUBDIVISION BY WILLIAM HON: (APPROVED WITH CONDITIONS) 6. REQUEST FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A SENIOR CITIZEN BOARDING, LODGING COMPLEX BY WAYNE ~ KAREN FORREY CONTINUED FROM JUNE 18, 1996: (APPROVED FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW; DENY CONDITONAL USE PERMIT) 7. AMENDED FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR ASHFORD GREENS SUBDIVISION NO. 2 BY BRIGHTON CORPORATION: (APPROVE AMENDED FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW; APPROVE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT) 8. TABLED JUNE 18, 1996: ORDINANCE #731 - OLSON BUSH SUBDIVISION NO.2 ANNEXATION: (APPROVED) 9. ORDINANCE #734 -CAN SYSTEM: (APRPOVED) 10. ORDINANCE #733 -PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION: (APPROVED) 11. FINAL PLAT: DOVE MEADOWS SUBDIVISION NO. ~ BY DAVE LEADER; (APPROVED WITH CONDITIONS) 12. FINAL PLAT: KENTUCKY RIDGE ESTATES BY SHEKINAH INDUSTRIES: (APPROVED) 13. TRANSFER OF BEER AND WINE LICENSE FROM EL ZOCALO TO RONDA GILDEROY: (APPROVED) 14. TEC-PAC SITE PLAN REVIEW: (APPROVED WITH CONDITIONS) 15. DISCUSSION OF ORDINANCE 1-707: ESTABLISHING COMMISSIONERS FOR CITY DEPARTMENTS: (APPROVED) 16. WATER/SEWER/TRASH DELINQUENCIES: (APPROVED) 17. APPROVE BILLS: (APPROVED) 18. DEPARTMENT REPGRTS: A. GARY SMITH, CITY ENGINEER: 1. GOLF COURSE BID OPENING: 2. ENGINEERING AGREEMENT FOR FIVE MILE CREEK ASSESSMENT (APPROVED) 3. FENCE VARIANCE - GOEHNER: (APPROVED VARIANCE) 4. VAN AUKER SEWER LINE EXTENSION: 5. CONSTRUCTION OF ASHFORD BOULEVARD: 6. ALBERTSON WATER AND SEWER LINE CONSTRUCTION: B. SHARI STILES, PLANNING & ZONING ADMINISTRATOR: 1. DEVELOPMENT AGREEMETN FOR WHITESTONE SUBDIVISION: C. MAYOR CORRIE: 1. SICK LEAVE POOL: (APPROVED) 2. SENIOR CITIZENS VAN ,EXEMPT PLATES: (APPROVED) MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL JULY 10. 1996 The regular meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order by Mayor Robert D. Carrie at ~: 30 P. M.: MEMBERS PRESENT: welt Morrow, Glenn Bentley, Charles Rountree, Ron Talsma: OTHERS PRESENT: Will Berg, Wayne Crookston, Gary Smith, Shari Stiles, Robert Phillips, Stan McHutchinson, Doug Campbell, R.B. Morrison, Wayne S. Forrey, David Costello, Traap #189, Pat Tealey, Mike Wardle, Joann Butler, Dave Leader: MINUTES OF PREVIOUS MEETING HELD JUNE 18,1996: Cowie: Council, you have the minutes of the previous meeting held June 18, 1995, are there any corrections or alterations? Enterkain a motion to approve the minutes. Rountree: Mr. Mayor, I make a motion that we approve the minutes of our previous meeting held June 18. Marrow: Second Carrie: Motion made by Mr. Rountree, second. by Mr. Morrow that we approve the minutes of the previous meeting held June 18, 1995 as written, all those in favor? Opposed' MOTION CARRIED: All Yea Carrie: First I would like to thank Troop #189 from Meridian for being here tonight, I hope you can learn something fellahs about our City government. Thanks for being here. ITEM #1: TABLED JUNE 4,1996: FIELDSTONE MEADOWS NO.5 SUBDIVISION BY O.L. VO I GT: Cowie: Is there a representative here? Morrow: Mr. Mayor since there is net a representative here I guess I would ask the question of City Engineer Smith if in fact the construction plans and all of the documents have been submitted far approval of the final plat? Smith: Mr. Mayor and Councilman not to my knowledge. Marrow Soave are no further ahead nowthen we were on May 21st when they originally had not submitted the required information. Smith: Correct. 1 L Meridian City Gouncil July ~ 5, ~ 995 Page 2 Morrow: That being the case Mr. Mayor I would move that we table until, since we have Lost a week to our first meeting in August, which would be August 5. Rountree: Second Gorrie: Motion made by Mr. Marrow, second by Mr. Rountree that the final plat for Fieldstone No. 5 be tabled until August 5, any discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor? Gpposed? MOTIGN CARRIED: All Yea Marrow: Mr. Mayor, if l might I would like to have the Gouncil instruct our staff to make contact with the Voigt people and make them aware of what the issues are and that it has been tabled pending them resolving those issues. Corrie: Alright, staff would you take care of that Gary and Shari. Did you have a specific one? Marrow: No, na, someone needs to call them and tell them that they are continually being tabled at their request and now at our request because they haven't provided the necessary information they have been instructed to provide. ITEM #~: TABLED JUNE 4, ~ 996: LATE G4MERS AGREEMENT FGR GEMTaNE CENTER NG. 2: Carrie: Is there a representative from Gemtone? McHutchinson: Mr. Mayor, my name is Stan McHutchinsan from Briggs Engineering, I will be representing the ownerldevelopers of Gemtone Subdivision. I brought a copy here of the preliminary plat to show you what we are asking far a late tamers agreement on. We are developing this, all of the parcel up here and in doing so we have to build a water line down Pine Street. UUe are requesting that the Gouncil approve a latecomers agreement so that when this developer down here develops and they can reimburse for their parcel inaudible}. we submitted an agreement, we drafted an agreement and submitted it to bath Gary Smith and Wayne Crookston have commented. ~Jlle have addressed Gary's comments but haven't yet addressed Mr. Crookston's, we will have to do that in person and we haven't had a chance to do that yet. I will respond, I don't know if you have a cagy of that here or the draft of the agreement. If not I have several copies I can pass them out. If you have any questions I would be willing tv address them at this time. Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I think in order to clear this off of the table tonight I would mane that Meridian City Council July 14, 199 Page 3 we authorize the City Attorney to conduct the negotiations far the late comers agreement pending the successful negotiations that we authorize the Mayor to sign and the City Clerk to attest the late carvers agreement far Gemtone Business Center Na. ~. Rountree: Second Corrie: Ckay, you have heard the motion by Mr. Morrow to have the attorney if it is approved by him to have the Mayor sign and the City Clerk to attest and it was seconded by Mr. Rountree, any further discussion? All those in favor? apposed? M~TI~N CARRIED; All Yea McHutchinson: fur next step is to probably get back to you regarding your comments. Crookston: That would be fine. ITEM #3: TABLED JUNE 1$, 1998: PRELIMINARY PLAT FAR THE LAKE AT CHERRY LANE N0.5 BYTHE STEINER DEVELOPMENT: Corrie: Is there a representative from Steiner, Steve? Bradbury: Thank you Mr. Mayor and members of the Council, my name is Steve Bradbury, as you know I represent Steiner Development. You have before you I think the preliminary plat for The Lake at Cherry Lane Subdivision I think we are calling it number B now which is consistent with I think the Conditional Use Permit. I think we have agreed that we are calling this one six. It has been tough, I have been guessing half of the time myself. I believe it is consistent with the conditional use permit with the planned unit development which you approved last, I guess we were in March or April, the first part of April. INe believe that it responds to all of the concerns that had been expressed by the City Engineer, the City zoning staff. I had spoken with both nary and Shari and aver the course of the last couple of weeks to try to determine if there are any other issues that they were concerned with and they bath responded in the negative that is it appears to be acceptable to them. Since you have seen this darn thing so many times I am not sure that I want to take up yourtime explaining it any more. I would simply respond to any questions that you have. Corrie: Questions from Council? Rountree: Are we sure now we have all of the setbacks, corners and sides and everything? Bradbury: I believe that we da, I think sa. I think we even got the right boundaries too. Meridian City Council July ~ 9, 1996 Page 4 Now don't be giving me the fish eye I am not an engineer. Cowie: Any further questions from the Council? Rountree: Just a question for staff? Gary ar Shari have all of your issues been addressed? Smith: Mr. Rountree, from my standpoint yes. Stiles; Yes they have. Cowie: Any further questions from Council? I will entertain a motion on the preliminary plat. Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I would move that we approve the preliminary plat for the Lake at Cherry Lane No. 6 by Steiner development. Rountree: Second Carrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Rountree that the preliminary plat for the Lake at Cherry Lane No. B by Steiner Development be approved, any further discussion? All those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #4: TABLED JUNE 18, 199fi: FINAL PLAT FOR PACKARD SUBDIVISION NO. 1 BY PNEIEDMONDS CONSTRUCTION: Cowie: Is there a representative from Packard Subdivision? Tealy: Mr. Mayor, members of the Council, my name is Pat Tealy I am representing the applicant far Packard Subdivision Na.1. Hopefully after all of these delays we have gotten the conditions met for the final plat approval, V11e submitted everything that was asked for I believe. There are two items in question that I got feed back on, Number one is the development agreement, we submitted the development agreement that evidently it has not, there are questions that the staff has about the development agreement we don't know the specifics of what they are but we are willing to address that and make that a condition ofthe final approval. what we did is take the development agreement as provided to us by the City of Meridian and filled in the blanks and submitted it back to the City. It was reviewed by the applicant's attorney and submitted back to the City. I believe the staff may have concerns with the development agreement, is that correct Shari ar questions about portions of it? Meridian City Council July ~ a, ~ 995 Page 5 Stiles: It really should be handled by Counsel and myself at this point but we can use what you submitted. Tealey: okay, and we are willing to accept that as a condition of approval. The other one would be the piping of the ditches around the total perimeter of the 44 acres. Vve are proposing and we always have proposed and if there is any misunderstanding that is exactly what it was. That we will pipe the ditches as we develop the phase it is just economically unfeasible to pipe every ditch on a 45 acre site let alone proposing to develop the first 5 or 5 acres. Vlre will certainly pipe the ditches in accordance with the City of Meridian ordinance as the phases progress. Corrie: Council, any questions? Morrow: I guess I have a question Mr. Mayor, perhaps I didn't quite understand that, the pressurized irrigation system far this subdivision is part of the three subdivision irrigation system is that correct? Tealey: That is correct and it either has been approved or is being approved by Nampa Meridian and was submitted to them on May ~ 5. UVe are proposing that Packard Subdivision, UIlingate Subdivision and Dave Meadows No. ~ be part of a common irrigation system. It has been designed and submitted and we are waiting for approval. Marrow: My next question as a fallow up to that is that as you know we have labored long to protect Mr. Brian's interest in terms of irrigation. There seems to be some common boundary between Dove Meadows and Packard, has that issue been resolved in terms of the location of that ditch and the servicing of Mr. Brian? Tealey: I believe it has, that ditch is being piped as part of, Mr. Leader will be here to address that portion of it in Dove Meadows which is later on the agenda. Right now it is being constructed and piped in accordance with the plan that has been submitted for that, that whole area there has been a subject, a care subject for the City of Meridian. I believe we are carrying out that plan with our plans and I think Mr. Brian is in agreement with that. We are reconstructing the delivery system and the piping all of the ditches in the area. However, I think there was some confusion as to whether ar not we have a 40 acre parcel there that has been preliminary plat approved and somehow the comment was that we are going to pipe all the ditches araund that whale 4a acre parcel. INe can't really do that, we can do it in phases as we develop and get the money to do those things. Somehow there is some misunderstanding there was a comment made that a condition of the approval was that we pipe the whole 4o acre system and that was a misunderstanding. INe are piping all of the stuff that the City of Meridian approved in that overall drainage and irrigation scenario with Mr. Brian and Avest and Dave Meadows and Wllingate, that is being handled Meridian City Council July 1 D, 1998 Page B right now. Cowie: Questions of staff? Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I would have questions of bath Shari and nary that all of your issues have been resolved with respect to the comments on some site specific in terms of SD foot frontage an number 3, dated May 15, from Bruce. And I am concerned about the question in terms of the evidence of the 50 foot wide Hickory Way access easement for dedicated public right of way acceptable to Ada County Highway District has been secured from the recorded owner of the property. Has that issue been resolved? Smith: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Marrow, the applicant submitted a grant of easement, a copy of a recorded grant of easement far that 6D foot right of way, ingress and egress. As far as I know that is acceptable. The Highway District is going to have to rule on that as far as public access is concerned. They do have a legal description and it has been recorded and has been granted by the property owners for that ingress egress from Dove Meadows Na.1 to this subdivision. Morrow: For clarity on my part, what happens with this when Dove Meadows develops out then that goes from being a recorded easement to a dedicated public right of way is that the issue that we are dealing with here? Smith: That I am not sure, I don't know howthe Highway District wants to handle it. But it would have to operate somewhat that way. The Highway District is going to have to be involved in this because they are going to have to monitor the construction of the roadway number one, it will have to be built according to their standards. They are going to sign ofl: on the plat of Packard Na.1 so all of the documentation far that access is going to have to be in arderfromtheir standpoint before they will sign the plat. But the property owners between Packard and Dove Meadows have agreed to an ingress egress easement and a description has been written and it has been recorded as such in the County recorders office. Marrow; My next question has to do with the maintenance agreement and easement information. Smith: We have a sample maintenance agreement for sanitary sewer lift station that was written for the 1lilhitestone Estates Subdivision. Bath Superintendent Shawcroft and myself have reviewed that and made comments and I think that is the base that we will use for this lift station maintenance for this lift station. Morrow; That in fact has not been signed as of yet? ~,,.... t Meridian City Council July 1 g, ~ ~~~ Page 7 Smith: No it hasn't, but it would have to taken care of as part of the ultimate acceptance of the system by the City of Meridian. Morrow: Which would be prior to final plat signatures? Smith: Not necessarily, the plat could be signed as soon as it is approved but the acceptance of the system wouldn't be done anti[ they were complete. obviously they won't be able to market any lots without those systems being complete. Well they could sell fats as soon as their plat is recorded, but they can't obtain building permits until certain things are done as far as sewer and water improvements are concerned. Ultimately na occupancy permits are issued until we have accepted sewer and water systems which include the maintenance agreement acceptance of a maintenance agreement. That is perhaps one of the conditions of your approval of the Final plat is that they enter into this maintenance agreement with the City that can be signed by the Mayor and City Clerk. Morrow: I have na further questions. Carrie: Any further comment from staff? Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I would move that we approve the final plat for Packard Subdivision No. 1 subject to all staff, ACRD and Nampa Meridian Irrigation District conditions with further condition that the maintenance agreement be completed by the City, accepted by the City authorizing the Mayor to sign and the City Clerk to attest and that the irrigation agreement between the three subdivisions be concluded authorizing the Mayor to sign and the City Clerk to attest. Rountree: Second Carrie: Motion has been made by Mr. Marrow, second by Mr. Rountree an the final plat for Packard Subdivision, any further discussion? All those in favor? oppased"~ MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #5: PUBLIC HEARING CONTINUED FROM JUNE 18, 1996: REQUEST FOR A PRELIMINARY PLAT FOR HONOR PARK N0. 3 SUBDIVISION BY WILLIAM HON: Carrie: At this time l will open the public hearing and invite the representative of Honor Park Subdivision to come forward. Stan McHutchinson,1111 South orchard, Boise, was sworn by the City Attorney. Meridian City Council July 1 D, ~ 99~ Page 8 McHutchinson: At the June 18 hearing this subject was tabled to give time far staff to meet with the applicant and work out same issues. We have done that, all of the issues and I will let staff speak to some of them but I would like to address some of the issues before Council. Mr. Marrow, you can interrupt me if I left out a condition ar a concern that you had at that time. The developer is proposing to build, to provide for 5g foot wide right of way for the streets with a 3l foot pavement back to back with five foot sidewalks on both sides. I, since our last meeting, that is one condition, since our last meeting we have visited the site and identified the trees on the boundary between Storey park and this property and have counted about 50 trees and I have copies of the plan here it shows where the trees are if you must take ~a look at it. There are about 5D trees and staff have a copy of the preliminary plat. There is a chain linkfence, an existing chain link fence that separates the ball field from this property. What we are proposing is to construct the ~ foot chain link fence from the ball field all the way an the south to the south boundary of Start' park and as far as additional screening between the park and this property let staff handle that and require that of the individual lot owners when they come before the City with the site plan. The theory being that some of the building sites may not require as extensive of landscaping or that other sites might. And you will knew that at the site planning stage. The staff had asked far, the third condition, the staff had asked for a ~0 foot landscape buffer along Franklin Road. The developer is proposing that there will be a ~D foot common Iot a separate lot constructed along Franklin Road the whole frontage of the property along Franklin. This lot would be developed in its entirety when one of those lots develops. All common lots will be owned by the association and be operated and maintained by the association. There will be an association far this subdivision. Another condition is there was a concern that the people buying lots adjacent to the ball field would be advised that foul balls which are quite often, all I can recommend at this time is that this be included in the restrictions to the tats and also Hated on the final plat. The object here is to make the future lot owners aware of the situation and that is hawwe propose to dv that. one last condition was haw we would physically treat the treatment and provide access to the sewer manholes far the sewer line extension Pram Honor Park No. 2 all the way out to Franklin Road on the east boundary of Storey park. We have made a proposal to staff that I am not sure staff has completely decided what they would like to do in that situation. What i would like to do is far Council, if you can act on the preliminary plat tonight make it subject to the approval if you see it reasonable. The approval subject to working out this condition with staff as to the treatment of this sewer line and access to the manholes an the Stacey park subdivision boundary. That is all the concerns that I remember from that meeting, if there are any more l would be glad to address it and I would address any questions you might have. Corrie: Thank you, questions from Council? Rountree: Yau indicated that you had identified the possibility of foul balls and or other Meridian City council July 14, ~ 996 Page 9 activities from the park on the as a deed restriction ar one on the final plat. could you just as well include the subject of having to address buffer requirements with the City staff the way same so that anyone buying those lots would be aware of that situation. McHutchinson: Yes Carrie: Any further question? Morrow: l have one question, with respect to the owners association, you anticipate preparing CC&R's far that to spell out common areas and responsibilities' McHutchinsan: Yes Morrow: You also address maybe in the CC&R's the ball issue that we talked about? McHutchinsan: CC&R's will be submitted far the attorney's review with the first final plat that is prepared far this property. Tolsma: Question for Gary, Mr. Smith, do you see that there is any problem with that sewer line easement that is on the east side of the ball field (inaudible) what they have laid down here with the gravel surface and everything and the manhole is that going to be a problem with the landscaping between those building lots over there. Smith: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Tolsma, as far as the landscaping is concerned over the sewer easement yes that would be a problem. fur intent on that easement is to restrict any large planting trees so that if we did have to access that line we wouldn't be moving some major landscaping or having to deal with it. fur main concern though is to access the manholes themselves. That is one of the things that Stan mentioned we still need to work out is hawwe are going to access those manholes. IJllhether we can try and access them from a park side which may be the easiest route or access them from the development side. In terms of access far this line it is very limited because of the diameter of the pipe, it is an ~ 8 inch diameter pipe and you just don't have to access these pipe that often. Mast objects that would plug up smaller pipes of course will flaw right an through. And so it is not a big issue as far as number of times to access. But if we ever did have to access we would need to get there in a hurry because there is an awrul lot of flaw capability in the pipe. That is why we want to maintain, absolutely maintain access to these manholes. Stan and his client have been very cooperative in wanting to provide that type of access. There hasn't been a problem there. Vlle just haven't' been able to nail down the detail as to what that access should look like ar the actual construction should look like. In terms of landscaping along the easement, f don't have any problems with grasses, small shrubs those sorts of things but we certainly want to restrict trees. Meridian city Council July 1 D, ~ 996 Page ~D Tolsma: Haw close is this sewer line going to be to that raw of trees that is through there's Smith; It is probably ~ 5 feet away to the east. Tolsma: (Inaudible) Smith: If we had, I think typically on a tree if you are digging within the drip line of the foliage then you are cutting roots that may have an effect on the life of the tree. Most of these trees are poplars and as you know they don't have much of a spread in the foliage so l don't knawthat their limbs even extend out into the easement right now. Tolsma: (Inaudible) culdesac (inaudible) Smith: UVe are a couple hundred feet from the culdesac to the property line. That is one of the issues, when we first started this was to provide an access from the end of the culdesac to the west to the property line, But in effect what we would be creating would be a long ADD foot by ~0 foot wide alley that was basically a dead end. Neither myself nor the applicant nor Stan felt that was a really good solution, Sa that is why we really have decided on what we want to do. Perhaps simply an easement far the sewer line on one Iot ar the other is the best procedure. INe would have a manhole in the public right of way, the culdesac and a manhole at the property line. Could access both of those and then the sewer line would be in an easement if we needed to get to that sewer line we would still have the easement and access from the culdesac. Tolsma: You don't have a problem (inaudible) Smith: Yes I do Corrie: Any other questions ar comments from cauncil? Thank you sir, anybody else from the public that would like to enter testimony on this public hearing? Staff any further comments that you need to make before I close the public hearing? At this paint then I will close the public hearing. Marrow: Mr. Mayor, I would move that we approve the preliminary plat for Honor Park Subdivision No. 3 by William Hon subject to all staff conditions and the special condition of the resolution of the sewer line access to be worked out between our engineer staff, City Attorney, Mr. Hon and Mr. McHutchinson his representative. Bentley: Second Corrie: Motion by Mr. Marrow, second by Mr. Bentley, that the preliminary plat far Honor Meridian City Council July ~ 4, ~ 99~ Page ~ 1 Park Subdivision No. 3 by approved with the conditions set forth by the motion, discussion? All those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I would like to tell Mr. McHutchinson that he and Mr. Han did a very nice job of answering questions, they were direct and to the paint and got the resolutions of the issues that we as a City need so thanks for doing a nice job. ITEM #~: REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A SENIOR CITIZEN BOARDING, LODGING COMPLEx BY wAYNE & KAREN FORREY CONTINUED FROM JUNE 1 S, 1998: Carrie: Mr. Forrey you ar your representative. Phillips: Mr. Mayor, members of the Council I am Robert Phillips, my business address is ~~7 North Bth Street Boise, Idaho. !represent Mr. Forrey. First thing I would like to go over is there are two findings of fact and conclusions of law and as we left it last time it seemed like there were not a lot of concerns about the granting of conditional use permit and I have some analysis as to why you should choose one to the other which I will dispense with unless there are concerns with granting this conditional use permit. Rountree: I have specific concerns about granting the conditional use permit. As it relates to rezoning it industrial property of which we have little of in the City of Meridian which is difficult to zone for. Phillips: Let me address then, what we are asking here for is a planned development which is under the policy set forth in the ordinances, the policy of the City is to encourage planned development. Specifically in industrial areas planned development general is a permitted use as long as you get a canditional use permit. If you look at the findings of fact and conclusions of law the big issue is whether or not this is a planned development general or a planned development residential. That is the choice that needs to be made tonight between the two different findings of fact. Define that it is residential first of all you have to use the wrong chart in my opinion, you have to use ~-4g9A, secondly you have to find that there is not a mixed use and I think as we discussed at the last Council meeting there is a mixed use. Third, you have to find that the predominance use is a residential use. That is not defined in the code, residential use is not in the Gity ordinances. You have to find that as a predominant use. And lastly, even that included you have to find that the accessories to that residential use which is not defined would include the educational facility the chapels and the other commercial uses that we have. And also given the fact that there has been in the past consistently the Council has found that certain areas that Meridian City Cauncil July 10, 1 ~9~ Page 12 are zoned light industrial in those cases they have granted these same type of conditional use permits. Now I understand you are concerned about light industrial but granted that an three sides of this particular piece of property it is residential already. This creates a buffer between residential and industrial on the south side. So maybe in some situations I think you concern may be valid but in this particular case it may be gaol to have this type of facility. Does that help address your concern Mr. Mayor and Councilman Rountree' Rountree: That addresses my concern but I don't know that it changes my mind. Thank you. Corrie: Counsel? Crookston. I think that it is appropriate to explain to the Council why I prepared two sets of findings, one that is a denial and one that is a granting of the conditional use permit. The concern that I have is that in the presentation of the materials submitted for the application on the last page of the application the failure of the testimony from Mr. Forrey and his representative is to so state that the last page if you look at it shows four buildings and a maintenance building or residence if you wi11, and it says on that last page that #hey will be, the four buildings will be housing units and the one building would be a residence. Also on the last page it says that there will be housing units and I am going to reference it as the residential structure. There is nothing on that that indicates where the proposed uses other than lodging complex would be located. In Mr. Farrey's testimony and the testimony of his representatives there were no statements as to where any of the uses would be located. That is haw I came out with the denial because t thought that it was basically a residential structure of the senior citizens lodging complex would be residentia[ and there were no other uses stated on the documents and they were not stated in the testimony. !t seemed to me then that probably was a planned residential use. In the planned residential uses they are not allowed either as a conditional use permit or a permitted use in the industrial zone. Since the property is zoned industrial it seemed to me to be appropriate to deal with that as industrial as the senior citizens lodging complex was not allowed. And the uses that Mr. Forrey stated in the hearing were very could easily be determined to be accessory uses. Under the zoning ordinance the accessory uses if they are in fact accessary to support the permitted use are dealt with as residential uses. then looked at it again and said it is up to the Cauncil to decide the issue it is not my decision. I think it is appropriate that the Council could find very easily that it is a planned unit structure general because the Council could very easily find that the proposed uses are in fact not accessory uses but they are separate uses and therefore could find that it is a general planned unit because under a general planned unit development there are other uses other than the permitted use. That in fact the other uses are permitted uses. It is just a planned development. That is why t prepared two sets of findings because I believe that it is the Cauncil that must make the decision. Meridian Gity Council July 1 D, ~ 996 Page 13 Forrey: Let me help here a little bit, far the record Wayne Forrey. Mayor and Council, City Attorney, you have a gross misunderstanding.l asked that my March ~ ~, ~ 996 letter to the Planning and Zoning be entered to the public record which was at the public hearing but it is not contained within your findings of fact. The information that you are talking about here is incorrect. I did specify all of the uses on the five acre campus. I think it is terribly wrong far you to not have information that is in the public record and then prepare findings of fact that are not findings of fact. They are incorrect. And then present to the City Council as if we tried to do something that is not allowed in the ordinance when in fact it is. All of the uses that we have identified and evaluated in the public record comply with the ordinance. It is a mixed planned development general project and it complies with the ordinance. I don't knave if that helps. Phillips: Just to reiterate, those uses that were mentioned last time specifically Mr. Forrey and myself are in the public record. The mixed uses and to further maybe clarify l think part of the problem is the confusion as Councilman Marrow mentioned last time with the ordinances themselves, there needs to be some restructuring there. But to find that it is indeed a residential use when residential use is not defined by the ordinances themselves takes a leap an your part. To deny the fact that there are mixed uses takes another leap on your part. And to find that the chapel and the educational facility and other items mentioned are accessories to residential use which isn't defined would take a third leap. So that is a Iot of legally jumping in my mind to get those conclusions. It is a lot easier just to look at the ordinances themselves and say, the reason, if you look at the structure of the ordinance, there are three areas, there is commercial, there is residential and there is industrial. Under each one of those there is a general category and a specific category. There is one for residential planned development, there is one far the commercial planned development and there is one under industrial planned development. In addition to that one item listed there is also planned development general if uses are mixed. In other words the way you look at the code is you look and say okay do I have a planned development that is industrial in an industrial zone, in this case we do nat. Sa what da we have, we have a mixed use and that is the only other category available. If you follow the findings of fact that were set forth to deny the conditional use permit all you have to da is take the residential planned development and move it aver into End of Tape} As to space, there seems to be a concern on the part of Council as to whether there was enough space far these items. Firs# of all items being the chapel and the educational facility and the other items there were commercial. Those are actually going to be in a building #hemselves, don't know if you have been in St. Luke's downtown, they have a little chapel off to the side in the hospital itself sa that is the design intent. Also, if there are specific concerns about spacing requirements in the design review those could be picked up. I don't think those are major concerns. I also prepared some amendments to the findings of fact to help clarify. First of all both of the f ndings of fact specifically, there are just three things on there. First of all the findings of fact specifically state that there was a hearing on June ~ 8 which there Meridian City Council July 14,199 Page 14 clarify. First of all bath of the findings of fact specifically, there are dust three things on there. First of all the findings of fact specifically state that there was a hearing an June 18 which there was not sa I have drafted and amendment to clarify that. The hearing was actually on March 12, and technical that Mr. Farrey's letter from March 12 relating to a variance far a small stream that was not to be tiled and also an amendment related to parking. Because the ordinance doesn't address parking either in this type of facility so drafted some amendments and discussed these with Counsel earlier to day. He hasn't seen the amendments but we discussed some issues related thereto. And sa, if you find to approve this it is important to also approve the amendments that we go with that. I have stricken out the part that have been changed and double underlined the addition. I would be open to any questions related to those amendments. Corrie: Council, any further questions? Phillips: I believe Mr. Forney has a comment. Forney: Mr. Mayan and members of the Council, one of the major intents of property like this is it generate tax revenue for the city, business tax, commercial tax value. And this project does, it is overa $4 million investmentfor myfamily. It has significant value added to the community. I could put office warehouses on the property and they wouldn't nearly have the value that this elderly campus will have. And so it does support the objectives and goals ofthe community in increasing the business opportunity in the community and bringing value and taxable value to the community without impacting our park system and without impacting our schools, it is a win, win situation. It is a very good location for this property. I ask that you approve it, thank you. Crookston: Wayne, may I ask you a question? Did you say it was the March 1 ~, 199 letter where you set Earth the uses? Forney: Let me check, that is correct, it is addressed to Mr. Jim Johnson and the Planning and Zoning Commissioners and it was entered into the public record at the March 12, public hearing. That is where we addressed each of the agency concerns and all of the staff comments, we have a written response to each. This was at the time, I was asked by City staff prior to the meeting where they said the City had adapted a new procedure where that prior to the public hearing they are asking applicants to address in writing a response to each item in the staff packet. And so I went through and addressed police, fire, Central District, Nampa Meridian, all of the agencies and all City comments and all the people that had written letters in support of the project, even acknowledged that I had read those letters and that was in this, l think about 11 ar 1 Z page, piece of correspondence. Croakstan: Where in that letter does it show these other proposed uses? Meridian City Council July ~ 0,199fi Page ~~ Forrey: Page eve, city comment number 10, about halfway down page five. Quality living space, dining facilities, chapel, recreation, laundry, education, van transportation, ~4 hour maintenance, security, landscaped campus setting, it is the same list that I provided in the April 29 letter to you, the same list that l provided in testimony on June ~ 8 that are in the minutes. Crookston: I agree that this is basically the same as you submitted in the letter to me, but I don't see how this shows where the proposed uses would be. Forrey: UVithin the buildings on the campus, within the five acre campus. Crookston: I don't see where the letter says that. Forrey: ah, it does in other paragraphs, at the ba#tom of that page it talks about the five acre campus literally throughout all of the correspondence I have had with the City we have applied for just five acres as the campus even though we are buying more property than that. That has been made clear an our application and site plan. And also l think that is why you have a design review function on planned development so that after you approve a conditional use then our architectural plans are developed and ! am in front of the City Council so you actually see floor plan and detailed architectural so you can see the size of the chapel ar the height of the chapel and the size of the education room and the way the garage looks for the van transportation services, those types of things. That is why you have the design review function. Crookston: I guess I just have to state, I don't mean this to be in any way argumentative but i just don't see where it shows those uses would be located in the five acres. Forrey:llllell, if you look at the site plan it is within the structures. The City ordinance does not require when you submit a conditional use to have detailed architectural floor plans. so I also don't show where the hallways are, the bathrooms or the laundry or the maintenance ar the utility entrances or those types of things. I don't show the location of flower beds and the handicapped ramps and the elevator shafts and all the many things that go into a project of this scope. But that will be shown and have to come before City Council under the design review. Crookston: I was just commenting that it is not specifically stated that the proposed uses will be located within the buildings that you Shaw on that site plan. Forrey: IlVell I did state an June ~S and I am stating it right now. All of those uses that we have always identified wi[1 be within those buildings within the structures Shawn an the site plan. Thank you. Meridian City Council J u ly ~ 0, ~ 99B Page ~5 Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I have a problem that I would like to address concerning this issue. 1Ne have ail received the setters from Builders Masonry concerning their concerns about the noise and the dust. llVayne, I wanted to ask you, if they expand their facility and l realize that you the noise problem isn't a problem right now but what are we looking at dawn the road. Are we going to end up in a situation where we have the airports here and nowweare building houses and now we are getting complaints about the airport noise? Crookston: Let me interject one comment the reason that the last letter from Builders Masonry was not even addressed in the f ndings is because that was submitted to the City afiter the public hearing was closed. Cowie: It was addressed at the City Council. Crookston: It was addressed but it was received by the City after the public hearing. 1=arrey: Can I answer the guestian, Mr. Mayor and Councilman Bentley, the living units, the closest living unit to Builders Masonry is 990 feet away. At the south edge of the campus at about 949 feet away from Builders Masonry I have indicated in writing that I will build a sound wall to give confidence to Builders Masonry that they are welcome and I encourage them to expand and hope they do. That you will never hear a complaint from our side of the fence even though we are 900 feet away that would impact their business, but in that space that remains an our property another B00 to ?'00 feet I propose to build office buildings. Sa, I am 900 feet away with the elderly campus bu# between me and Builders Masonry is a railroad 200 feet of right of way plus another B00 feet of office development. So I just don't see it being an issue at all, not at all. I think it is an excellent location, I think our neighbors agree with that and I hope Builders Masonry grows and doubles their production, that would be wonderful. I would just be a goad neighbor and won't impact them in any way. Bentley: Thank you Cowie: Questions or comments Council? Questions of staff? I guess if there is no further discussion are you ready to make a motion on the conditional use permit? Marrow: Mr. Mayor, is this a continued public hearing? Carrie: No it is not. Morrow: l think I would like to make same comments before motions are brought tv the table. A couple of things that I would like to review in my analysis of this project. I think it is a great project, I think however it belongs perhaps on the Bews property adjacent to Meridian City Council July 1 ~, ~ 99~ Page 17 St. Lukes's, I think that is an ideal location for it. I don't think that by any stretch of the imagination residential units in any configuration belong in industrial zones. I think clearly in the case of chapels, educational facilities, garages that are park of the residential buildings they become accessory uses. They are parkin partial of the complex, they are accessory to those folk that live within the complex. So I think that it is an accessary use. From my perspective ultimately there will be a conflict between the residential portion, the neighboring industrial issues, uses. I think that it is not to the benefit to this Cauncil to make a decision that will come back to haunt future mayors and councils and city staffs because of that conflict. Sa, from my perspective I see this as it is a residential use and it doesn't belong in an industrial zone. Sa I will unfortunately have to appose the approval of this proposed project in this zone. I think it is a great project for a zone that is adjacent to St. Luke's ar something along those lines ar a residential area. I think it is a wrong project far this zone. I have na further comments. Carrie: Any further comments? Rountree: Mr. Mayor I would pretty much echo what vValt said. 1 guess I would go back to the fundamental we were posed with at the start of this was whether ar not it was even allowed in this area. And the question of being a residential use or a planed unit development general I am not convinced by the testimony and the information provided that it is anything other than residential. It is a senior living complex with all of the pertinence thereto and all of the other things that one would find in any neighborhood that would be classified residential. Sa far that reason I would say that it would not be allowed as a residential use in an industrial zone. And for that reason 1 would not be favorable to the application. Carrie: Any further comments of Council. Tolsma: I somewhat echo Walt and Charlie's comments, it would be a transition befinreen (inaudible) industrial zone surrounding it to a residential zone which is one the other two sides of it. I also believe that it would be (inaudible) in the St. Luke's area or a residential area other than in an industrial zone. The fact right now that the only thing that we have in that industrial zone is the concrete block manufacturing outfit. But it is (inaudible) possible light generating plant out there, jet engines and everything else (inaudible) The Yanke industrial property which is (inaudible) that it just (inaudible) senior citizens. Corrie: Any further comments from the Council? Crookston: Mr. Mayor, I would emphasize to the Cauncil that whether ar not you believe that it is not a good place for it that cannot be park of your basis for denying the use there. There may be some better places but I don't believe that it, it should not be the Council's ~,_ 1 Meridian City Council July ~ 0, ~ 99B Page ~8 decision to deny this because the Council thinks that there are other areas where this would be better located. Rountree: I hope I wasn't misunderstood, I specifically indicated that I do not believe that this is a genera! use, I believe that it is a residential use and therefore not allowed. Marrow: I think from my perspective, I am sensitive to what you are saying Counselor, I still think there are better places far it, but my decision is based solely in the fact that it is in my mind a residential use and in an industrial and therefore should be denied. Carrie: I will entertain a motion then Council. Rountree: l would have a question far Counsel, with the comments from the applicant about information having been received as testimony that may or may not be included in the findings. Do we amend the findings to include those as a condition of a motion? Crookston: You can amend the findings as you deem appropriate. I don't believe that just from what Mr. Farrey said tonight that letter of June ~ 2, ~ 99~ is any different than what was submitted in the April 29th letter. It is not any different than what was submitted in the testimony. I just read it tonight, I just read it again tonight. But if you desire to amend the findings I think that is very appropriate in whatever fashion you desire. Marrow: Question of Gaunselar, is it in your opinion necessary to amend the findings? Crookston: well I guess that depends an which version you wish to adopt. If you want to grant it I think those findings are appropriate, if you want to deny it those findings are appropriate. They are subject to change, either one of those are subject to change if the Council desires. Marrow: I guess on my part I have concluded that it is a planned unit development residential. As such it is not allowed in the light industrial district. So the conditional use permit should be denied. Crookston: You can do that as an individual councilman. !t takes the entire Council to act, but you can have that position and so state it an the record. Corrie: I guess Wayne, all of the dates on bath of these are correct and would stand's Crookston: To my knowledge they are. Corrie: I have one question an the one, they are referring ~ ... Meridian City Council Jufy 14, 199G Page ~ 9 Crookston: About the time of the hearing? Corrie: (Inaudible) on the decision on the denial it says the application for planned unit development general is that correct or should it be residential? Crookston: The application was for general. Corrie: Okay, as long as the application was for that that is fine. Crookston: If I could have a moment just to take another look at the application. The application reads as follows, it states Mr. and Mrs. Forrey's names, gives their address, the general location of the property, description of the conditional use "to develop a high quality senior citizen boarding and lodging complex in a secure, landscape campus setting" it says zoning classification IL, it makes reference to the legal notice and there is a document that is titled information for conditional use permit of Wayne S. Forrey and Karen L. Forrey. It does not say that is a part of the application, it says it information far it. Sa the application does not even specifically address if it is general ar residential or inaudible}. The information does reference same of that as does the amendment submitted in the amendment letter submitted to mean April ~9. Marrow: Mr. Mayor I would move that we instruct the City Attorney to prepare new findings of fact to incorporate any new or additional testimony that was presented tonight for the application for a conditional use permit for a senior citizen boardingllodging complex by Wayne and Karen Forrey. Corrie: Is there a second? Marrow: I will withdraw the motion. Crookston: The hearing Councilman Morrow, the record has been closed, we did not reopen the public hearing. I think that you would have to at a minimum indicate that the public hearing was or is reopened for the purpose of accepting what was stated tonight by Mr. Forrey, by Mr. Phillips and by the Council and make it a part of the record before you change or before you have a motion to change the findings of fact. I have nv objection to doing that it is up to the Counci I. Corrie: But we didn't notice it far a public hearing. Crookston: Na you did not. Carrie: I think we might have a little problem there. Meridian City Counci! July ~ ~, ~ 996 Page ~0 Rountree: Mr. Mayor, I would move that the City of Meridian hereby adopt and approves the findings of fact and conclusions of law referenced (inaudible) denial on its first page. Marrow: Second Carrie: Matian is made thatwe approve the findings of fact and conclusions of law an the facts and conclusions with the recommendation of denim, any further discussian? Roll call vote. ROLL CALL VOTE: Morrow -Yea, Bentley -Yea, Rountree -Yea, Talsma -Yea MOTION CARRIED: All Yea Corrie: The decision? Rountree: Mr. Mayor, !move that the Meridian City Council hereby denies this conditional use application which decision is supported by the above findings of fact and conclusions of law. Bentley: Second Carrie: Matian made by Mr. Rountree, second by Mr. Bentley an the decision, any further discussion? All those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #7: AMENDED FINDINGS QF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR ASHFORD GREENS SUBDIVISION NO. 2 BY BRIGHTON CORPORATION: Corrie: Is there a representative from Brighton? Wardle: Mr. Mayor, members of the Council, my name is Mike IlVardle, as much as we would like to complete the process and as close as I believe we are we did review the document and have submitted to you an item that is highlighted that shows same desire for action and others are simply informational. Even same of the action items are trivial and perhaps don't really deserve any significant discussian. There are three issues thatwe still believe could be cleared up before the Council acts, One of them is simply the continued references to senior citizen living community which was not in the application which we don't find any evidence of having been introduced in our discussions. But that could clearly cause same problem because one specific reference in the findings an page 2~ Meridian City Council July 10, 1995 Page 21 item 12 states that the residents shauld be seniors as represented. And all laws federal or state pertaining to a senior citizens residential area must be met. Inasmuch as that was not our representation that particular thing probably shauld be deleted from the findings. There is also a similar statement on page 13, item 17 that is highlighted that again makes a comment about senior citizen, it is an the bottom of page 1 ~ in which the attribution to my testimony the April 25 letter that this is not a senior citizen living complex which was referred to in the conditional use application. My comment there simply is the application does not refer to the senior citizen living complex. So l think those issues as far as senior citizens would really be helpful to strike out from the documents. Then the other really significant one doesn't have any direct bearing on this application but it does an the subsequent appiicatians and that referred the items referring to Interlachen and there is a reference an page 1 S number 8 in the findings that says that implies that we don't want to address the issue, item S states that relating to Interlachen vUay and again this is an attribution to my comments paragraph 15 of the paragraph 1 D on page 2~ be changed to not require that it be shown how Interlachen Uvay and Dawson Drive connect, That wasn't our intent what we have submitted the last time and !have given you a single page that accompanies this and would be identified as comment 15. Is that we are simply asking that decision be made when we deal with the parce! in question. Let me just illustrate the problem that might provide a catch 22 to not only the developer but also the Counci! in the future. The recommended condition on the original findings said that far any other phase to be considered the decision relative to the item in green would have to be addressed. The first plat for Ashford No. 1 is Shawn in yellow, the second one is shown in blue. It is very likely that the next plat yr two will occur also in that northerly area rather than get down into this vicinity. Simply because that is the direction from which the utility services must be extended. Therefore tv say that we have to make this decision when we probably won't have any plans far that parcel at that early paint. It forces some type of a decision that probably want stand the test of time because it wouldn't be hypothetical, it would not likely be based an an actual site plan that deals with that parcel. Sv we have never suggested that we don't want to address the issue. Vlle are saying let us address the issue when we actually plan this and if it turns out to be single family and not a cluster development as proposed in Ashford No. 2 then it will be a fairly easy thing to fix. If it ends up being a cluster development and a PUD configuration then it will be a bit mare of a challenge but we want to deal with it when we get to that paint. So we believe that our recommendation from the previous meeting that is contained on that item actually is valid and that would refer them to a second reference an page 21, item 15 of the current findings that says the same thing. This is a parenthetic addition that the Counci! put on item 15, it says this conclusions is not changed yr modified since the applicant has not addressed the question and it is concluded that it is a matter that must be addressed for any development an Ashford greens and that it must be presented. UVe don't disagree that it must be presented and dealt with we just think that perhaps to say the next phase is probably not the best time to deal with that. The last two items came up on page 25, item Meridian City Council July ~ Q, ~ 996 page ~~ 7 we would four wards to be added and thaw would be to construct entry gates into the subdivision if streets are private. You recall earlier that on the findings and conclusions that there is a caveat provided that if ACHD grants a waiver tv the standard then the streets can be public. And so we believe that the qualification here is that if the streets were private than certainly the entry gates would be constructed. If the streets are by inaudible} allowed to be public then that would go away with that particular reference. Then finally the very last sentence an that page dealing with the deed of the golf course and Mr. Turnbull's attorney Joann Butler is here this evening to discuss the issue.l think we have a problem with the date that is identified here that it shall be delivered to the City an ar before May ~ 6, ~ 996. Inasmuch as that date has passed and there are negotiations going an currently between Mr. Turnbull and his attorney and the City Attorney I believe. UVe just don't want to have something in the document that comes back and bites anybody. appreciate the opportunity to discuss these Mr. Mayor and would be even willing to work with the City Attorney on any of these items after this meeting hopefully for your next session that we can have it totally prepared for adoption. I would be happy to answer questions. Corrie: (Inaudible) Morrow: Mr. Mayor, t have questions far UVayne City Attorney, I guess I don't quite understand the format here, I can appreciate Mr. Wardle's comments but as I read through these findings and conclusions you need to explain to me why we have parentheses and thane kinds of things as opposed tv just changing the findings of fact and conclusions. The issue with for senior citizen living complex why don't we just the reference out of the document far that when we talked about amended findings of fact and conclusions at our last meeting. Crookston: They were done in that fashion only to show you what the requests were and have they related to the findings. Morrow: I guess from my perspective doesn't that cause confusion for those in the future maybe reading these findings and conclusions. I was somewhat confused but that is easy to do. It seemed to me like it was (inaudible) (Discussion Inaudible) Marrow: I guess the question in my mind is would it not be easier to have deleted thane things and maybe mere clear ar concise? Crookston: It would be and the reason I did it that as I said was to show what the changes were. I think it would be appropriate far the Council tv inform me as to changes as to what Meridian City Council July 1 ~,199~ Page ~3 they want to da. !think that there are still same questions about whether ar not the Council wants to make Chase changes, any of them as Mr. lNardle suggested are very appropriate. Rountree: I believe that was our motion at the last meeting that we amend the previous findings to include those findings and corrections. I guess as far as direction from this Councilman in the future I would rather not have the parenthetical side by side comparison including the change and I can hopefully go back and figure out what went an if that helps. Crookston: I have na problem with that. The one concern that I think needs to be addressed by the Council is the Interlachen question. Because that was stated some time ago that had tv be done. Rountree: I would Dave probably two questions related to the content here and that is one of them. My preference would be that it be identified that be done as part of the phase of development of part of that. So that could continue in any future findings and plats and so forth brought before the Council. The other would be the timing or the date for the transfer of the deed. I think we need to hammer that dawn and get it specific. IlVardle: Mr. Mayor, at the last meeting I think I could almost quote the motion and the motion was with the items that we had identified that they be adopted that the findings and conclusions be amended verbatim including the discussion an Interlachen which said we would deal with it when we get to that parcel. So I really didn't expect the confusion that we found in the document at this particular time. f would be happy to work with counsel an that outside of this mee#ing. Corrie: Council? Rountree: I guess I am at the point now that I think we ought to go forth with this with the amendments as suggested they are fairly easy identified. I think they can be made and think we can probably approve the findings with those amendments and not have to see this another time. That would be my position. Marrow: I think my position is thatwe approve the findings of fact and conclusions subject to the amendments being adapted and incorporated within the document. If I might address what Counselor has prepared far us there is that probably far a draft the comparison is fine, I don't necessarily disagree with that, but for a document that we are going to adapt what I want to see is a nice clean clear and concise document sa that everybody understands not only today but in the future what it is the deal that was struck. Sa, that is haw I see the issue. I da think thatwe address immediately the deed transfer, and press on from there. I am a little concerned about if the streets are private it seems to me the whale concept of this development was that they were going to be private streets, Meridian City Council July 10,1996 Page 24 that is what the development work in my mind sa I don't think that we should support a waiver to be public streets because they would be substantially less than standard and it would create easy ingress and egress which would create the confusion that the fire department was concerned about, the confusion that the police department was concerned about and so an and sa farkh. I guess I missed somewhere along the fang that they might be public, l don't recall that as being part of the testimony anywhere. So that would be my position. Tolsma: (Inaudible) Morrow: It would have been preferably May ~ 6, but we will settle for something like tomorrow. Carrie: Are you that close? Morrow: I think we are very close. Tolsma: (Inaudible) Marrow: Well you have to put a date certain within the document is that correct? Crookston: It can be dated when it is signed that is not, if you want a date. Morrow: Okay, so we can have this (inaudible) it is dated upon signature of the deed agreement? Crookston: You could Crookston: The reason that the May 1 ~ date is in there is the May 16 date is how i# started out. The motion was by the Council was to have that deeded to the City on or before May 16. ~auntree: But you are saying that is not necessary, just the fact that it be delivered to the City would be sufficient. Crookston: It is whatever the City wants to do with the deed as far as a requirement. I have na preference one way ar another. The date camel from because that was the motion of the Council. (End of Tape) Meridian City Council July 10, ~ 9~B Page 2~ Graakstan: There are same concerns that Joann Butler has addressed as to whether ar not the deed should reference a reversion of the property and if it ceases to be developed as a gaff course and it comes back to Brighton Corporation if it does cease to be used. The question that she and I have discussed is I indicated to her that I did not feel that if my language and what I used because na other develop who has deeded property to the City previously has requested a reversionary clause in their deed. She referenced well maybe we can deal with that in an agreement sa that if it is not then it is kind of like a default provision that if it isn't ar it isn't used for a golf course anymore that they can send the City a default if it isn't again used as a gaff course within that default period then they have the right to declare that and request that it either be deeded or go through a foreclosure to get it back. The reason that I have that reference is that na other developer who has deeded property and that goes back to Leavitt New Pacific that deeded the initial nine hales to the City and it goes to Jim Fuller who deeded property to the Gity that is being developed as part of the back nine. And to Kent Barney he did not have that restriction that he gave to the City, the reversionary right. I have na problem with having an agreement to that effect but that is up to the Council as to how they want deal with that. That has been the reversionary striking the reversionary clauses is not, it is a Gauncil decision it is not mine. Rountree: That is not necessarily subject to this findings of fact. Graakstan: No it is not, other than stating that the deed needs to be delivered. How it is delivered and the terms are not in the findings. Butler: Council and Mr. Mayor, Joann Butler, l am just hereto answer some questions and clarify this for the Council rf you would like. As you know this is a generous gift to the City bu# it if very intricately interwoven with this particular development. As consideration for this generous gift to the city one of the things that the developer is asking is that far at least a period of time that we have an understanding that the City will be developing this as a golf course and maintaining it as a golf course over a certain period of time. Counselor is correct that we did discuss this and f had said that f am happy to work with Gauncil and Counselor to put this in place either through a deed of gift with a reversionary clause which would indicate that say in ~o years the City did not develop #his as a gaff course and maintain it as a gaff course that it would revert back to Brighton or in lieu of that do an agreement with the city where the same indication would be made that the Gity would develop it as a golf course and maintain it and that would just say for a period of ten years and the developer would have the right if that did nvt happen during that time to specifically enforce ar ask the City to specifically perform its agreement to da that. one of two ways, really as you can see from the plat this is very important to this development that it not became other residential or other commercial right in the middle of this residential and that is the reason for this. If you had any questions I would be happy to answer them. we are very close, I don't know the ~ Bth, we can try far sure. If you wanted Meridian City Council July 10, ~ 996 Page Z6 to stick a date in but we can certainly get that lane as soon as passible. Crookston: Just to reaffirm the Council I will not be here on the ~ 6th. She has pre ared p a document, it still has the reversionary references in it. Marrow: Mr. Mayor, I believe it may be appropriate, let's deal with the findings of fact and conclusions and then move an to the deed issue sa that we are not clouding the two, I think that what I would like to do is propose a motion that we approve and ado t the p findings of fact and conclusions of law as amended by the City Attorney with two exceptions on page ~5 we delete the suggestion if streets are private and that we insert the date July ~ 5, 1996 for May ~ 6, 1995. Rountree: I wi I I second, Carrie: Matian made by Mr. Marrow, second by Mr. Rountree, you have heard the matian is there any discussian'~ Rountree; t just want a point of clarification an the motion, those amendments include amendments to language suggested by Mr. V1lardle about senior living and private roads as opposed to public roads? Marrow: That is absolutely correct, those are the same issues that we asked tv be amended last time, Sv the intent of the matian is to include ali of those items as reca ed pp by Mr. vVardle and that we had requested an our last inaudible}. Corrie: Any further discussion? Rol! call vote. RILL CALL VOTE; Morrow -Yea, Bentley -Yea, Rountree -Yea, Tolsma -Yea MOTION CARRIED: All Yea Carrie: Is there a decision? Morrow: Mr. Mayor, the Meridian City Council hereby grants and approves this conditional use application for a planned unit development under the conditions stated above and these amended findings of fact and conclusions of faw. This approval is sub~ect to all Cit J Y ordinances except as allowed not to be met as stated herein. Specifically inciudin deli n 9 g review and plat approval and the procedures of the Subdivision and Develo ment p Ordinance. Rountree: Second Meridian City Council July ~ D, ~ 996 Page 27 Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Rountree and second by Mr. Rountree on the decision, any further discussion? All those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea Morrow; Mr. Mayor, could we not deal with the issue of the deed now? Corrie: You are right Marrow: I guess from my position, I want to state two things, first is that Joann Butler and I have worked together on other projects sa if the Council foresees that was a conflict I will stand down. Rountree: I don't Marrow: Having resolved that issue then from my perspective I would like to see a clean deed. I am not opposed to a side agreement that reaffirms that we are developing and maintaining that donated ground as a golf course. # believe the standards that we are held to by the original agreement with Leavitt New Pacific is USDA standards. So I do not have a problem with continuing that commitment. From the perspective of the July ~ 6th date, as we get into later issues tonight we will be prepared an July 16 to actually award bids for the construction of the golf course subject to the City Council approval. So before we can award those bids we need to have that deed and be able to ga to work right away. That is my interest in having the Juiy 16th deadline as a drop dead date. Rountree: Good information, good that we have it by the 16th. I don't have any problems with what he said. By clean deed Morrow: Clean deed is dust like anyone ekes deed. Rountree: No reversionary. Marrow: No nothing but the deed to the property, execute a side agreement that clarifies exactly what our position is and our commitment to develop and maintain which nears the commitment of the original nine hales with Leavitt New Pacific. Rountree: Sounds goad to me. Corrie: Is that a motion? Marrow; Yes sir. Meridian City Council July 1 Q,199~ Page ~8 Rountree: Second Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Rountree, you have heard the motion any further discussion? All those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM#8: TABLED JUNE 15,199G: ORDINANCE#131-OLSON BUSH SUBDIVISION NO.2 ANNEXATION: Corrie: AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF MERIDIAN ANNEXING AND ZONING CERTAIN REAL PROPERTY WHICH IS DESCRIBED AS A TRACT OF LAND SITUATED ON THE SE 114 OF SECTION 8, T.3N. R.1 E, BOISE MERIDIAN, ADA COUNTY, IDAHO; AND PROVIDING FOR AN EFFECTIVE DATE. Is there anyone from the audience that would like to have Ordinance #x"31 read in its entirety. Hearing none, entertain a motion on Ordinance #131. Morrow: Mr. Mayor I move that we adopt Ordinance #131 with the suspension of the rules. Tolsma: Second Corrie: Motion by Mr. Marrow, second by Mr. Tolsma that we approve Ordinance #731 with the suspension of rules, roll call vote. ROLL CALL VOTE: Marrow -Yea, Bentley -Yea, Rountree -Yea, Tolsma -Yea MOTION CARRIED: Ai[ Yea FIVE MINUTE RECESS ITEM #9: AMENDED ORDINANCE #180 -CAN SYSTEM/ORDINANCE #734: Corrie: AN ORDINANCE AMENDED TITLE 3 OF THE REVISED AND COMPILED ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF MERIDIAN BY REPEALING CHAPTER 15, REVISING AND RE-ENACTING SAID CHAPTER 15 TO GRANT TO THE UNITED CABLE TELEVISION CORPORATION DOING BUSINESS AS TCI CABLEVISION OF TREASURE VALLEY A FRANCHISE RENEWAL TO OPERATE AND MAINTAIN A CABLE COMMUNICATIONS SYSTEM IN THE CITY OF MERIDIAN FOR THE PURPOSE OF INTERCEPTION, SALE AND DISTRIBUTION OF TELEVISION AND RADIO SIGNALS TO THE INHABITANTS OF SAID CITY. AND WHICH PROVIDES DEFINITIONS, AUTHORIZES A GRANT OF AUTHORITY PROVIDING THAT SAID FRANCHISE SHALL Meridian City Council July 1 d, 1998 Page 9 BE A NON~EiCCLUSIVE GRANT SPECIFIES GUARANTEE RULES, PROVIDES SERVICE STANDARDS, PROVIDES FOR CITY RIGHTS IN THE FRANCHISE, SPECIFIES CONDITIONS ON STREET OCCUPANCYAND USE, SPECIFIES PAYMENTS TO THE CITY, PROVIDE FOR RATE AND FEES FOR SUBSCRIBERS, PROVIDES FOR AN ANNUAL REPORT, PROVIDES FOR PREFERENTIAL OR DISCRIMINATORY PRACTICES; REQUIRES COMPANY LIABILITY AND INDEMNIFICATION, PROVIDES FOR BONDS AND OTHER SURETY, PROVIDES OPERATIONAL STANDARDS, REQUIRES SERVICE TO PUBLIC BUILDINGS, SPECIFIES THE DURATION AND CONDITIONS FOR ACCEPTANCE OF THE FRANCHISE, PROVIDES FOR THE TRANSFER OF THE FRANCHISE, PROVIDES FOR SEPARABILITY, PROVIDES FOR MISCELLANEOUS PROVISIONS, PROVIDES FOR PAYMENT OF PUBLICATION COSTS, PROVIDES FOR THE REPEAL OF INCONSISTENT PORTIONS OF PRIOR ORDINANCES; AND PROVIDES FOR AN EFFECTIVE DATE. Is there anyane in the audience that would like to have Ordinance #734 read in its entirety? Hearing none I would entertain a motion from the Council. Marrow: Mr. Mayor, I would move that we adopt Ordinance #734 with the suspension of rules. Rountree: Second Carrie: Motion by Mr. Marrow, second by Mr. Rountree that Ordinance #734 be approved with suspension of rules, rail call vote, ROLL CALL VOTE: Marrow -Yea, Bentley ~ Yea, Rountree -Yea, Tolsma -Yea MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #10: ORDINANCE #733 -PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION: Carrie: AND ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF MERIDIAN AMENDING TITLE 4 OF THE REVISED AND COMPILED ORDINANCES OF THE CITY OF MERIDIAN BY THE ADDITION OF A NEUV CHAPTER TO BE KNOWN AS CHAPTER 1 WHICH WAS PREVIOUSLY REPEALED TO ESTABLISH THE FOLLOWING; THE PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION, MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION, TERMS OF THE OFFICE, DEALING WITH VACANCIES, ORGANIZATION AND DUTIES, SUPERVISION OF RECREATIONAL AREAS, MEETINGS, REPORTS, ADVISORY STATUS, MERIDIAN PARKS AND RECREATION CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT FUND; TG PROVIDE AN EFFECTIVE DATE. Is there anyane from the audience that would like to have Ordinance #733 read in its entirety? Meridian City Council July ~ 6, ~ 996 Page 30 Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I would move that we adapt Ordinance #?'33 with the suspension of rules. Tolsma: Second Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Tolsma to approve ordinance #l33 with the suspension of rules, any discussion? Bentley: Yes I have one, in the original draft under item 5 we had uses facilities and it states all recreational organizations using City facilities or recreational purposes must make their records pertaining to recreational uses including minutes and financial records available to the City far inspection and audit. I would like to know how came that was dropped. Corrie: Gounselar? Crookston: You and I discussed this Mr. Mayor the other day and l did not have a chance to look at that at tonight's meeting. If you want to give me a minute I did bring the file with me and I will look through that, Hopefully I will be able to tell, lam sorry Councilman Bentley, what provision are we talking about? Bentley: Provision 5 on the original draft. It says use of facility, pertains to reports. Crookston: Mr. Councilman, I would hand you a draft which is a working copy and I dust have a Hate on there to take it out. I don't know why. There are a couple of things, there are a couple of questions on that, but I cannot tell you why that was removed. Morrow: I think I can answer that to some degree to the standpoint that the phrase talks about auditing minutes and sa Earth and when you lank at the numbers of the Commission being the School District, U1lestern Ada Recreation, Meridian Athletic Association, Cherry Lane golf Course and sv an and so Earth I don't perceive that we as a City have any right to audit those folks entities. I think that you have type of a phrase in there that could in the future lead to a ma~vr abuse of someone auditing and looking at areas of those entities that they have no business looking at. Clearly it seems to me that is not something that we should be looking at or looking into. It is outside I think outside of what is reasonable and prudent for a City or a Commission. f am not familiar with anything that I have served on such ACHD's transportation committee and so an and so forth that are structured exactly like this where anybody tries to take that right ar tries to implement policy such as that. Bentley: VIlhat if we had a situation saying we built a rec center and the City decided to lease it out for a percentage of the operation then we would have to have the right to audit ,,, Meridian City Council July 1 8,1996 Page ~ 1 in order to ensure the ta~cpayer fram getting the proper revenue back. Marrow: And I would suggest to you if that eventuality came that would be part of the lease, you would make that site specific and you would have the parameters of the audit and you would have the specific parameters in the [ease to determine the percentages and haw the method was of obtaining that. That is all in my mind a goad lease would address al! of these issues sa that bath the Council and Mayor and the party to which we were leasing would understand before any lease was ever signed haw it was to be done. Bentley: How did we, I don't know, was this a boiler plate document that was created, how did this section even get put in to begin with? Did this come out of a standardized Morrow: I can't tell you Tenn, I think the first the rough first draft came in Crookston: It tames from Coeur d'Alene. Carrie: Counselor was that part of Coeur d'Alene's ordinance? Crookston: Yes it was, I have handed Councilman Bentley my copy that I made at the Law Library and it has it in it, that is how it got in there in the first place is I took the ordinance directly fram Coeur d'Alene's ordinance. Corrie: Yau are not aware of any problems that they have had sa far' Crookston: I haven't discussed it with them. Carrie: I know you and I discussed it with reference to a couple of areas that we have leases with now and it is not in that lease at that time you couldn't go ahead and make it available to us now. Marraw: I think it has evolved Glenn, if you remember it started out in strategic planning meetings over the course of, since last November. Bentley: I just wasn't aware of where we gat our format. Crookston: As I recall, it probably was at a strategic planning meeting but I was instructed by the Gauncil to draft an ordinance and what I did is I didn't have one specifically to go fram so I went to the Law Library and look at what City's did have it and as I remember looking at it there were 5 to 6 Cities that had such a commission and I pulled up one ar two of the City's and I read them bath and thought that Coeur d'Alene's was appropriate and that is haw we started out with the initial document. Meridian City Council July 18,1996 Page 32 Ben#ley: Well being that I wasn't here in November I didn't know where it came from. I think you have answered the question. Corrie: Any further discussion? Rvll call vote. RILL CALL VaTE: Morrow -Yea, Bentley -Yea, Rountree -Yea, Tolsma -Yea M~TI~N CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #11: FINAL PLAT: DAVE MEADOWS SUBDIVISION N~. 2 BY DAVE LEADER: Carrie: We are here now Dave. Tealey: Mr. Mayor and members of the City Council, we are here to ask for approval of the final plat of Dave Meadows Subdivision No. 2. June 28th we received general and site specific comments from the City Engineer's office far the July 2nd meeting. We wrote a letter back addressing all of these comments on the 2nd of July and have not received anything back from the City Engineer's office so we assume we have addressed those items satisfactorily. We also received a list of 11 items from the Planning and Zoning Administrator and we wish to address same of those at this meeting right here one by one sv the Council can feel sure that we have satisfied a!I of the concerns of the Planning and Zoning Administrator. I assume that you have a copy of that letter that Shari sent to us on June 28th. Item 1 addresses remaining items from Dove Meadows Subdivision No. 1 specifically street lights, landscaping and tiling of ditches should be satisfactorily completed prior to signature of the final plat. The street lights in concern were bonded for in the original subdivision. That bond is expired and the developer is willing to give you another band for the construction of those street lights. We cannot put them in at this time because we don't have a permanent source of electricity. This will be furnished as park of the plat that was submitted to you I believe far the area next ta, between Fairview Avenue and Hickory. I think Louie's pizza is part of it, I think you know about the application. Those street lights will be put in then and then we will have permanent power. Landscaping, there is same landscaping that hasn't been done, the sprinkler system has been put in, the lot that is tv supply the water to the sprinkler system has finally been permitted and we will be getting water off of their water meter and can finish the landscaping, The tiling of ditches is proceeding as per the,1 guess it was an agreement of that whole area in there between Avest, Dave Meadows and Wingate. Item 2, the pedestrian walkway will be provided through Lot 23 per the ordinance. Item 8, in which request to submit approval letters from Nampa Meridian Irrigation District and down stream users for construction plans. These ditches are now being tiled by Wingate Subdivision the ones that are in question in this portion of the memo. Again they are being constructed in accordance with the agreement of the City of Meridian and the adjacent land owners. Meridian City Council July 10, ~ 996 Page 33 UVe have submitted a detailed landscape plan, item 4 asks far a detailed landscape plan and we have submitted one. I assume that we will get approval of it. Number ~, Dave is here to address the perimeter fencing. Number 6 the covenants have been submitted for review, they do not incorporate pressurized irrigation operation and maintenance because that is going to be owned by the Nampa and Meridian irrigation district as part of that irrigation system for the three subdivisions, Dove Meadows, Wingate and Packard. Also, just as a side line that easement that was granted to the adjacent landowners for that about ~5g feet of road between that Dove Meadows and Packard is being built as part of this application and that right of way is dedicated to the Highway District. Councilman Morrow had a question about that. We have addressed the 65 foot frontages on the item 7. Landscape lot in number 6 was reconfigured, the westerly ten feet of the subdivision in item 9 the westerly ten feet of the subdivision preserved as a ten foot wide strip far roadway. This area cannot be included as part of the lots. We have included that ten foot strip as part of the common area lot so it can't be built on. There is an easement over it for access and is preserved by this instrument number as Hated. In item ~ 0, the pressurized irrigation be provided to adjacent lots. If you don't have a problem with that the only thing that we ask is that we get refunded the well fees for each lot that we service. We gave the City of Meridian the fee for well development as part of not putting in a pressurized irrigation in phase one. If we supply water to phase one we ask for that fee back. Dave is also hereto address any inaudible} are there any questions that you have so far? Rountree: You indicated that the CC&R's did not address the pressurized irrigation system that it was going to be operated by Nampa Meridian Irrigation, haw does one go about collecting fees to pay their cost if it is not included in the CC&R's. Tealey: That is in an agreement with Nampa Meridian Irrigation District, Just like you get on your tax bill right Haw you get a tax far your water delivery to your lot if you have a Iot that is irrigated that will continue as part of the Nampa Meridian Irrigation. Rountree: So they will just add that to their billing cycle for taxing use of water. Tealey: Correct, it is totally owned by Nampa Meridian and operated and maintained by them so the homeowners don't really get involved in that. Rountree: Does that provide the homeowners an option to opt out of that, the irrigation district, as they can now and then Hat be served by the pressurized irrigation system? Tealey: That is a good question, I don't know, you have water delivery tv your lot under pressure and you are being taxed far it I don't know why you wouldn't use it. It would require then hooking up to the City system. I imagine they have a vehicle by which you can.: request that but I doubt whether or not they would allow it. Meridian City Council J u ly ~ 0, ~ 99G Page 34 Rountree: I think that is something that we need to pretty much guarantee that once before we have done that through the CCB~R's that they are part and parcel of that irrigation system. It is a detail, I don't think it is critical but I think it is something, somebody could apt out and say I want zero landscape and I don't want any water so I am not going to pay the irrigation fees, I am not going to pay anything other than my domestic water use far the City. Tealey: I am dust being, why does that concern you? Rountree: Because the nest homeowner might want a yard and that homeowner has opted out of the irrigation district. Tealey: I don't think that Nampa Meridian would allow that when you are signed up to a specific system like that. The only time they allow exceptions are large parcels and stuff. Again we can look at the agreement (inaudible). Morrow: I have a question, are you sure, I think I was given to understand that what Nampa Meridian does is bill the homeowners assaciatian for the operational cost and bill far the water I am not sure that they send the itemized statement far the Lot ~ Black ~ two tenths of acre for water, for same reason at the back of my mind I am thinking what the deal is that they send that billing to the homeowners association and then that association pays that billing. It may benefit us to find out and research it because now after listening to your presentation I am a little confused as to which way it really is. There may have been some changes there also. Tealey: That is my understanding of the agreement, now we haven't got the agreement back from Nampa Meridian sa when we review it if that is, if the homeowners assaciatian has to pay it then we will of course address it in our covenants specifically. But I don't believe that is the way it is because you can have a subdivision that doesn't have an assaciatian but they may require of them to form an association far the irrigation district. Uve will Iook at that agreement and make sure that it is covered. Morrow: I do have one further comment, I do think that it would be beneficial though in the CC~R's to have at least a line item or a paragraph that simply says there is na getting out of the irrigation system. Tealey: I agree Tolsma: Is your pressurized irrigation system year round irrigation system or just when the irrigation water (inaudible) of { l Meridian City Council July 14,199 Page 35 Tealey:ll~hen the irrigation water is in the canal. Tolsma: Have you made any provisions far the month or two prior ar the month or two after when this pressurized irrigation system doesn't function. Tealey: There will be back flow preventers where I guess you would end up using City water to irrigate your lawn. Tolsma: (Inaudible) Smith: vUhat we have been doing lately is requiring a central connection at the pump station and they have one back flaw device there and the irrigation district as I understand it pays the water bill to the City when water is being used other than ditch water. That way we don't have a bunch of back flaw devices to monitor. Tealey: Correct, that is what I meant, it is not on each individual lot we have (inaudible) Tolsma: Master connection (inaudible) and Nampa Meridian bills the homeowners. So that is a provision in there now? Tealey: Yes Corrie: Any further questions? Dave did you have something that you would like to add' Leader: Yes Mr. Mayor and Councilman, the one issue that I did want to address I know we talked about it before and I guess there wasn`t' any actual motion or it wasn't addressed in your comments directly. That is in regard to the perimeter fencing of the subdivision specifically what I am proposing fence is the, I forget the name but the one acre parcel to the north of me that is not, I don't know what it is zoned but it is just an acre parcel. I requested to ga ahead and put a G fact solid cedar fence there. The area that is adjacent to Dove Meadows Na.1 obviously it is a continuation of Dave Meadows No. 1 some of the people have fenced and some of them haven't. The other area to the north is Wingate and then Packard Subdivision and then the area to the east there on that culdesac is the ball field of Capital Christians and the park area for Capital Christian, they did build a short berm of approximately 3 feet along our boundary there. And the intent has always been to leave that open and nvt allow more than a 3 foot fence to be built if a homeowner wants to fence that off. So, the only other areas that I feel a fence is appropriate is and I don't know what the situation was when the commercial area there to the South of the subdivision was rezoned commercial where there was an obligation far them to do any fencing. If not I have no problem fencing that. If they were supposed to fence it why then !suggest that is their responsibility nvt mine. Along Dixie Lane I think E Meridian City Council July ~ x,1998 Page 3fi that was discussed too, Dixie Lane is being fenced on the Avest side. Basically what as understand is we wauid have there, we have 1B feet of common area there if we build a fence there then we are fencing off the continuation of the common area and again the long term intent there is my understanding there is going to beaten foot wide paved pathway that we are tying into with our pathway. To me it seems if you fence that solid both sides you just end up with a 20 foot wide alley there. I really don't see that requiring fencing there, you are already fenced off from commercial and if it is going to be a public walkway !don't really see that fencing as part of the subdivision is appropriate. So I would request that in the areas that I would be required to put permanent fencing would be against the undeveloped one acre parcel and against the commercial if that is not somebody ekes responsibility. Morrow: I have na questions for Mr. Leader, I will have same for staff. Carrie: Anybody else? Mr. Marrow? Morrow: nary and Shari you comments on where we are at with this final plat and then specifically Shari your comment on the fencing issue please' Stiles: Councilman Morrow, Mayor and Council, I would like to see the fence go slang the western boundary primarily to designate those Tots and to not have those people thinking that is part of their backyard because that is being used still by vehicles just far the protection of the people in that subdivision I think it should be fenced. As well as an the southern portion there. I agree that between the phases it wouldn't be required however if Vvingate doesn't, they were only required to put up a temporary fence if Mr. Leader gets going with his development first I would like whoever is first to put that temporary fencing in just to keep the debris from flying back and forth from the properties. ether than that l wauid like to thank the applicant and Mr. Tealey for the response and addressing all of the issues that have carne up, Smith: Mr. Mayor and Councilmen, the applicant and his engineer and land surveyor has answered ail of our comments. Morrow: Satisfactorily? Smith: Yes Morrow: ! have no other questions. Carrie: Council, any questions of staff? Hearing none I will entertain a motion on the final plat of Dave Meadows Subdivision No. ~. Meridian City Council J u I y ~ a, ~ 996 Page 3l Morrow: Could we have some discussion first Mr. Mayor? I think some discussion on the fence issue is appropriate. I guess from my perspective I don't have any problem with not creating fencing between phase one End of Tape} in terms of what were the conditions of the commercial annexation were they required to fence or was that a requirement ofi Mr. Leader, it is a fair question that he has asked, I don't know the answer to the question. Stiles: Councilman Morrow, Mayor and Council, is this the Avest portion or the Shoshoni Building? That was sa long ago I doubt they had any requirement to fence that because there is nothing back that far. Isn't it quite a distance from the building to your property line? They have a lot ofi open property still there. So it is basically vacant property adjacent to them, it is nothing developed. Morrow: Then what you are suggesting is that we wouldn't have, at the point that was annexed or zoned or whatever we would not have had any conditions placed on that because it may have been prior to these types of conditions is that what you are suggesting? Stiles: I could double check that, I didn't check what the conditions for that building were but I sure could. Rountree: As a condition of approval (inaudible) perimeter as well as temporary construction fencing. Marrow: I think so, I think the big issue we need to talk about is that clearly the applicant is not interested in fencing along Dixie Lane, staff is interested in having that fixed and sa don't know that I have a feeling one way yr the other about it. I can see bath sides and that if it is a walking path ultimately it is nice to look at more than fences an both sides. Cn the other hand if it is going to be a travel path for some time in the future then it makes a certain amount of sense to have it fenced. Rountree: That would be my concern on that particular location as if it still has vehicular use it ought to be fenced just for the protection of the adjacent residents. What is the status of Dixie Lane, is traffic going to betaken off of it some time in the near future do you know Shari? Stiles: Councilman Rountree, Mayor and Council, I believe it will be discontinued at some paint. As long as that resident lives at the end of that lane and has na other access he is able to use that. l believe Dan UVood is even using it for some of his construction vehicles at this time because of the complaints he got from the people that live on Chateau. So really don't know haw long that will be but I know Avest's agreement is that I believe there will be a ~ o foot walkway with landscaping on either side in the future. But as Ivng as that Meridian City Council July ~~, ~99~ Page 38 prescriptive use is still being maintained I couldn't answer when that could be vacated. Marrow: Sa !will ask one further question that you may or may not be able to answer, the prescriptive use does that, is that limited to the current owner or is it a situation that should that parcel change hands and somebody wished to use it as a residence on and on that they still have access from there. Stiles: I would think it would transfer with the property whoever bought the property would sti I I have that use go with the property. There is also the matter of the easement that already exists, what is it a telephone? Inaudible} I believe there is ,there are other easements that exist within that raadvvay. I don't believe it is on this plat but there is some utility easement up through Dixie Lane. Morrow: That would answer my questions Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Any other questions? !will entertain a motion far the final plat. Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I would move that we approve the final plat for Dove Meadows Subdivision No. 2 by Dave Leader subject to the meeting of all staff, ACHD, Nampa Meridian and other conditions that apply. Also to address the issue of temporary fencing and with the staff with the requirement that the permanent fencing with respect to the acre that Mr. Leader alluded to Dixie Lane and the commercial be required. Rountree: Second Corrie: You heard the oration made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Rountree, any further discussion'? All thane in favor? C~pposed'~ MGTIGN CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #~2: FINAL PLAT: KENTUCKY RIDGE ESTATES BY SHEKINAH INDUSTRIES: Preston: Mr. Mayan, members of the Council, Kentucky Ridge No. 2 is the second and final phase of the Kentucky Ridge project that was approved preliminarily a year or so ago, a year and a half ago. It is not in the City of Meridian, it is in the City of Meridian's impact area, it is an Ada County Subdivision. The conditions that I have had to meet were from basically the County Commissioners and the Ada County Planning and Zoning Commission in the process. I didn't have any specific conditions from the City of Meridian other than meet your subdivision standard which I understand staff has stated I have. Vvith that I would answer any questions. t Meridian City Council July ~ 0, ~ 99S Page 39 Corrie: Any questions? Marrow Mr. Mayor, I would move that we approve the final plat far Kentucky Ridge Estates by Shekinah Industries. Rountree: Second Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Marrow, second by Mr. Rountree that the final plat of Kentucky Ridge Estates be approved, any further discussion? All those in favor? oppased'~ MOTIGN CARRIED: Ail Yea ITEM#13: TRANSFERGF BEERAND 1NINE LICENSE FROM EL ZGCALG TG RCNDA GILDEROY: Corrie: Is there a representative from Ei Zocalo here tanight'~ Bill any comments, Police Chief? Gordon: No sir there is no reason why that license can't be (inaudible). Corrie: Questions from Council? Entertain a motion on the transfer of beer and wine license from EI Zocalo. Rountree: Mr. Mayor I move that we approve the transfer of the beer and wine license from El Zocalo to Ronda Gi[deroy. Talsma: Second Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Rountree, second by Mr. Tof sma an the transfer of beer and wine license from El Zocalo to Ronda Gifderoy, any further discussion? All those in favor's Gpposed? . MGTIGN CARRIED: Alf Yea ITEM #14: TEC-PAC SITE PLAN REVIEW: Carrie: Steve's McGlisick: Mr. Mayor and Council my name is Steve McGlisick, my office is at G2l North Linder in Meridian. I am here to answer questions I guess there has been some on a building permit an a building that I proposed. I do apalogi~e this fetter that I was going Meridian City Council July ~ g, ~ 995 Page ~0 fram I guess you may even request yr wanted to have the actual construction drawings and that type things but I did not have those available at the time. Marrow: Mr. Mayor, I think as a Hate here first of all I want to make it clear to you that our instructions to our staff is that if there is a project that is a little unusual ar different ar something that they haven't previously dealt with, if they have any questions in their mind as to what it is they need to be doing then their instructions fram us are very clear bring it to the City Council and we inaudible} Mc~lisick: Sir, !don't believe I questioned your right toga over these prints. I inaudible} I did not have the actual construction drawings and the specifications far the building far you at this time. Marrow: Having said that !think that Shari had reasons far having brought this before the Council and there were some questions in her mind sa l would like to have her address the issues that she needs help on fram us. Corrie: Shari? Stiles: Councilman Morrow, Mayor and Council, every time we get a building permit !get a set fram daunt and I have a certain date by which I have to have same response to him. Due to the work Ioad I was not able to immediately get on these, I did get my comment to him by the deadline. what my comments were to Daunt is that ACHD must approve the access location, City Council must approve site plan, utility plan and private road prior to obtaining building permit and that I couldn't complete my review until that was done and that also a recorded warranty deed far the additional ACHD right of way dedication was needed prior to obtaining the building permits which is a standard ACHD requirement. I believe you all have my memo to Daunt dated June 2lth is that correct. Submitted with the building permit and there is no question that it is a permitted use, I don't want to suggest that in any way. what in the back was a concept of future development of that entire site. That is what I am needing help with as well as because of the length of the driveway the private drive that he is proposing fram Linder Raad I was also curious as to what kind of improvements are going to be made on Linder Raad as far as our landscaping requirements and thane kinds of things that I need your guidance on that. what is proposed as the future concept is six buildings on the lot with a ~8 foot driveway, parking immediately off the driveway, na turn around at the end was shown and that could be worked out later but because nothing had ever been submitted like this at least in my history and l couldn't find anyone here that had seen something like this come in that is the reason that I would like you to review it and to help me if we are going to need any additional information ar what other improvements you think need to be made as part of the initial building. Meridian City Council July ~ d, ~ 99~ Page 4~ Morrow: Follow up question Mr. Mayor, with respect to Linder Rand, Linder Road is a section line road, typically the road right of way for that is 90 feet. Stiles: Yes Morrow: And da your plans indicate that there is curb and gutter located at the ~45 foot point? Stiles: No Morrow: The next question would be is as a section line road, what are the landscaping requirements adjacent to a 90 feat road right of way? Stiles: It being a section line road is not what is determinative, it is the location across the street from a residential property that requires a 20 foot planting strip beyond the required right of way. McGlisick: Councilman Morrow may I make a statement on that? The, I met with ACHD they were very cooperative in assisting me. They did not desire to have at that point in time additional 20 foot easement that is in their long term plan. AA Securities has got their building permit and we have been working together vn some development out there. They want to have it reserved far long term planning, that was laid in. The only reason the additional six lots was shown is to show that yes we have already figured that if we were going to have that requirement that it was planned in there and there was plenty of space to have that additional 20 fact beyond the ~o foot that is required right now because they desire to expand that read or to widen that road. I also met with Mr. Smith and several of the people down at City Hall here. They were very cooperative and very informative because we talked about it was not submitted as a plat, I have one building submitted and that is all that I have before the City Council and that is all that I have gat as far as the building permit. I da not knawwhether it will ga one building or four buildings ar six that will be submitted for approval at the time that they may came up. But during this time it was brought to my attention that Mr. Yanke awned property behind me and he may want tv develop in the future. It was discussed that it might be prudent to ga ahead and put a line in large enough to allow that development because it appeared to be the mast logical way tv get the sewer and water to that lot if it had to be. The second thing is that l was informed that I had to have a fire hydrant within 3g~ feet of my building. In order to da sa I required an 8 inch line to get the water there. So as Tong as l was bringing the water across the road we may as well put an S inch line all the way down the property. Again that made sense down the middle of the road is Z8 foot wide. It is also set out so that an this plan if it went far future development that it came to a total of 78 feet wide including the sidewalks, So it fits well within Ada County's requirements fora 5o foot wide right of Meridian City Council July 1 d, ~ 99B Page 42 way. Because someday that may want to be something that goes down through there to access the industrial property behind mine. It was not submitted and very clearly put that those were just things that were thought about far the future. So I guess the concern is that my building is not being built right on Linder Road, I guess it wasn't desired I was asked why I wouldn't put it there. I don't desire to have it there because if I build a building up nex# to Linder Road I desire it to be a tilt up stucco type building, this one happens to be partial metal. Sa I guess the conflicts came as to the type of or where !was building the building. The ACHD, I have met with them several of times to make sure that the road wold meet their requirements as far as its access paint, it may not meet the other requirements they have to sign off on that. But, at least we have discussed the fact that the access is not directly across from another driveway or they gave the specifications that I had to be so many feet dawn from a driveway to access that road. So I guess my question to the City Council is what part of this package would they like further information on? Morrow: I think what we are attempting to da is to answer Ms. Stiles' questions here and one of my observations would be is the issue with respect to water and sewer lines by our ordinance would have to be in a dedicated road would they not as opposed to a private road or an easement nary? Smith: Councilman Morrow, typically they are in dedicated roads, we da have some lines that are in easements that are given to the City, granted to the City. As long as we have permanent recorded easements on these lines, ~! like to think of Hunters glen apartments over here on East Fourth that has a water and sewer line that round the whole length of it north and south. It is in a private road that is in an easement. A Iot of our sewer lines of course that are outside of the roadways are in easements obviously. But we do have same private Aspen Hill Apartment complex is another example. Typically with these multi family living units are private roadways and we have sewer and water line easements in that are granted to us by the owner of the property and are recorded as permanent easements for us to own and maintain the sewer and water lines. I don't have a problem with the easements for a line especially under a paved surface like this it is not a real issue. Morrow: Afollvwup question for Shari? This is part of Linder Industrial park Stiles: It is not a platted subdivision. Morrow: No I understand that, it was zoned and annexed as that title I believe Linder Industrial park.llverethere any covenants or restrictions or any other types of things done when that was approved that you are aware of. Stiles: It was never platted so there wouldn't be any covenants. I did talk to ACHD today, Meridian City Counci! July 1 a, ~ g96 Page 4~ Dave Schpletz indicated that yes he did want that additional right of way dedicated prior to the building permit being obtained and they would also like to have the centerline of your access staked, I knave it is a mess out there nave but if you could make same indication for them where that centerline would be then they would check that against the adjacent houses and their driveways because they do have to issue you a permit to connect your driveway with their roadway. McGEisick: Yes ! am aware of that and I have been talking to them several times on that and there is not a problem. When I say there is not a problem we will move that road haweverwe have to move it if it needs to be moved. My question to the Council ar to Ms. Stiles haw far back can I build my building before it becomes a private road? I am ~~~ feet from my building nave off of Linder and that is granting the extra 2g feet to Ada County Highway District. So I am ~gD feet back so if there is a problem with the private road how close da I have to move that building to Linder Raad so that it is not a private road but dust part of my parking lot? Is there something in the ordinances that will tell me that? Stiles: AEI private drives need to be approved by Council, I wouldn't mast places that would front would actuaEly have frontage on a roadway, would have a short approach and go directly to their parking Eot, That is what I wauEd consider not a private drive, McGlisick: But even that approach would have to be approved by ACRD. Marrow My question on a fallow up would be Wayne is there any provision or any ordinance or statute or code that discusses that #hat you are aware of? Crookston: There is not that I am aware of but I don't know I would have to Iook. McGlisick: The reason that I am asking that question is I can move the parking Iot that I have got in the back of the building to the franc of building and then that makes by access down to about Bg feet. That would be a planting strip. Rountree: Da you foresee in the future that you would be pursuing subdivision in this property? McGlisisk: At this time I don't know Mr. Rountree, I don't know. Rountree: Would you consider that is a passibility in the future? McGlisick: Yes sir it could be. Rountree: Then something you should plan far as weEl. Meridian City Council July 1 D, ~ g9~ Page 44 Mc~lisick: That is the reason why !have made the road wide enough to it, I have talked to Ada County Highway as far as the placement of the road, that is the reason I talked to Mike Ford about da they want to develop in the future. Vllould it be advantageous to have that raad loop through there. Because originally Victor War and I bought that full ~ 5 acres in there. The thought at that time was yes in the future we would make a loop through there. Sa anything that I am going to do now it is so that in case in the future that does happen I am at least within the specifications that # am told are on the banks at this time. That is the reason far the 78 foot wide sidewalk or 68 feet and then the ten feet on the sidewalks in that one area. At the present time it shows excessive parking around the buildings but by doing that, taking the parking away from the street it still Inaudible}within the requirement of the number of parking spaces far the building but it also gives us a public access there that is ~l8 feet wide. The people I talked to at Ada County did not have a problem with a wider raad as much as they had a problem with a narrower raad. At the present time that piece of property I don't know if you call it grandfather clause or what but that 5 acre piece can be split into two ~.5 acres pieces. If I split that that would be more than likely in the middle of it. Morrow: UVould you say that to me again? Mc~iisick: If I split the five acres to two ~.5 acres parcels then I would be lacking at going up the middle of the road with that. Morrow: I understand but haw da you grandfather it far a split's McGlisick: Na, that piece of property prior to the annexation I guess can be put into two pieces of property, two 2.5 acre parcels. There were 3 five acre parcels here, each one of them could be split once. Crookston: Dv you own all three of those? Mc~lisick: Na, I awn one 5 acre parcel at this point in time. Victor Ul~ar and I awned another 5 acre parcel together and since that time 2.5 acres my portion of it was sold to Hastech Drilling. Craakston: I am just trying to recall, If you divide it into two parcels and it is in the City you would have to subdivide it. Mc~lisick: I believe it has already been authorized for subdivision once into two ?.5 acre parcels. Crookston: After it had been in the City? Meridian City Council Duly ~o, ~~~~ Page ~5 McGlisick: I believe it was prior to coming into the City. Crookston: Then that wouldn't apply then. McGlisick: I guess that is not an issue at this paint in time, it may became an issue but it is not one at this point in time. Again, I am not looking at subdividing that piece of pro ert , p y If it was subdivided !would have to ga through the normal procedure of setting up far fats p and the full approval process of doing so and that is not what I submitted at this point in time. The overall long term plan was only put in there sa that we could get assistance or input from the water department, City sewer, ACHD, to what they may require in the future and what would be the best way to ga. From that we looked at whether it was financially feasible to d that at this point in time or whether it would be better to rip the road up again. No if the City Engineer as !mentioned before if they have a problem with the stub outs from underneath the streets because it may create a blockage or the extra extension of the City sewer line going dawn that is not going to be utilized at this paint in time. If that is a problem in the City yr it could create a blockage or something they would prefer not to have then we would address those issues. Corrie: Shari and Gary do you have any other issues? Smith: I would just mention that based on that comment Steve I think what we would all we would like to see is the utilities extended as far as your improvements are made as far as your payments are made and na sense to extend it any farther at this paint. The other comment that I might make I am sure the Highway District has probably said the same thing but if you have ideas of same time in the future of possibly turning that road way into a public right of way that they will need some documentation as far as construction of the road is concerned the compaction of the base, the gravel and all of that business Then they may change their mind anyway. McGlisick: I understand that and that has been discussed with them and the road at least according to what I have been told by the engineer's has been designed to their specifications except far the fact that it is not a full 5o foot but it is ~8 foot at the part that we are going to be doing. It is being done and we realize that can be changed in the future. All you can do is go far what is an the books today and hope that may be an the books when you decide to make that move. Crookston: I just have a question, Gary, isn't this the same type of problem that we are having with Albertson's where to extend the sewer and water to the farthest boundary of the properky? Smith: Well the problem with Albertsan's is they are improving their entire parcel of ground ~~. Meridian City Council July 1 Q, ~ 995 Page 45 and if this parcel was being improved to his farthest extremity then yes the utilities should be extended. If it is not going to be improved any farther than the western boundary of his building site then that is as far as it needs to be extended at this point. I don't think it is any different than a subdivision that is phased developed. Mc~lisick: I believe in the plans that were submitted they were shown going clear to the end of my piece of property. vVe felt it would be prudent to do at this paint in time again rather than ripping something up in the future. Morrow. Anything else Shari? McGlisick: Excuse me, I will address one thing, the turn around as we have it drawn there is ~S feet then it goes into the parking Iot so inaudible} cal! it a turn around, but it is larger than I think mast turn grounds in Meridian. I could drive asemi-truck around in it. Corrie: Any further questions Council's Did you get the answers that you wanted Shari? Stiles: Mayor and Council I guess I still would like to address what is going to be done along Linder Road. There is no landscaping of any kind shown an the eastern boundary. Does the Council want to wait until maybe all six buildings come in to have something done along the roadway? Do you see a need to have any sidewalks along the private drive? The developer has gone to the Street Name Committee and gotten a private road name approved, is that the Council's wish that be approved, I don't have any problem with that happening but if it is going to be a private road I think that needs to be decided by you at this time Rountree: My point an the landscaping specifically is it appears to me as one building on a big lot. It still has to meet the requirements of the City on the landscaping requirerents, that lot is going to have to be landscaped along Linder. It is not subdivided. That would be my position, I believe that is a requirement that the lot be landscaped. V11e didn't put any size an the lot and apparently the lot itself by the boundaries establish the limits of the landscaping. Sidewalk on some of the commercial and industrial applications that we have seen have at least a requirement for sidewalk on one side. But I am not sure that is all that important. Morrow: I think the other thing we have done an some of those is to require no sidewalks. Stiles: ~n one side, it doesn't make any difference for this but I also don't want the developer to consider because he submitted this concept plan with his building permit application that our granting of that building permit is not an approval for the rest of the concept submitted. f ,, E Meridian City Council July 1x,1995 Page ~1 f t Morrow: I think that is a given, park of the, with respect to the landscaping thing is part of the original approval for the zoning and annexation was or talked about was berm and landscape around the outside perimeter of what was Linder Industrial park which runs from the railroad tracks to South an Linder, west on Franklin Road to one place before Ten Mile back to the railroad tracks. And sa, that was park of the presentation when the annexation and zoning took place in 1918. Stiles: You remember when that happened. Crookston: Nis land was annexed as part of that. Morrow: Myself and Mr. Van Auker paid to have the entire project zoned and annexed. Stiles: All of that area that is industrial in there in 1975. Marrow: we created the industrial park. Stiles: It was called what? Marrow: Linder Industrial Park. Mc~lisick: Council member Mr. Morrow, the question I have gat, I believe my plans show the number of trees that go around the building, we have done, we have Shawn mare than those number of trees. So we have put the landscaping around the building, if it would be preferred to be put closer dawn to Linder I guess what I am asking is the Council at this time telling me that they want me to go the full width of the five across the front and landscape that. If sa has that been a requirement far the other building permits that have been issued in that area? Or are you just landscaping around the one site, the building that they are building. Marrow well I think tv answer that from this standpoint we are kind of caught between a rack and a hard place. what the issue is it is being treated as one lot and the landscaping requirements far the one lot and the ~0 feet slang Linder would mean in my mind would be the full width of the Iot. McGlisick: okay Morrow: ~Jllhat I am suggesting to Ms. Stiles is and we are talking about a rnemary here that is really vague at 8:50 this morning let alone 1978 but I am reasonably cerkain that one of the conditions of annexation was the landscaping and berming along Linder and Franklin Road, the full length of the subdivision, there wasn't a real, basically the original Meridian City Council July ~ Q, ~ 99fi Page 48 property owners and not platted each individual parcel. So that is something that you need to research. I guess the issue is here with respect to his property is that the Landscaping would be along Linder Road with that requirement. The landscaping with respect to the building itself I don't think it is fair to say that you have to landscape the five acre lat. Certainly you need to da some landscaping around the building but that is it as I see it, is that what we are saying here? Stiles: What did you say? I would like to see the 20 foot planting strip the full width of the property on its frontage on Linder and the 20 foot planting strip doesn't have anything to do with the landscaping requirement for the individual building because that is based on the square footage of his asphalt. Marrow: okay Carrie: So you have no problem then with the private road? Marrow: No I don't, the deal is this is an industrial, in an industrial park I don't have a problem with that. It is kind of developer beware, if he ever opts to subdivide it and obviously it may need to be a dedicated roadway built to ACHD specs and meet all the subdivision requirements and that is a risk that he or any other property owner takes. Corrie: I think we discussed that. McGlisick: The other question that I have, the deeding, the additional 2g foot to is that being as a condition to me getting a building permit, I have got to deed that additional ~g feet aver at this point in time without them paying for it is that what I am being told Morrow No, I think very candidly, we dust did a project on Federal way and ACHD paid far the extra, as a matter of fact our permanent occupancy was held up while the owner and ACHD negotiated and came to a settlement. So they bought it in that case. Mc~lisick: The reason I am asking that is when Victor UVar1AA Securities was after their building permit also they opted not to buy it at this point in time it is something they want reserved for the future. 1 wasn't willing they were aware to pay for it at this point in time. But I have not problem is they are willing to pay for it at this paint in time. As Mr. VIlar said it would have sure cut his upfront cost dawn because he would have got some of it back now instead of carrying it an the books far the future. Morrow: So in our case it was a final permanent occupancy. We had to give that property to them and they had to negotiate a settlement or no final occupancy. t- Meridian City Council July 10, 199 Page 49 McGlisick: So that is being applied to this piece of property at this paint in time. crookstan: It is, that is by ACHD though isn't it? Stiles: Yes McGlisick: That is not what they told me and Vic just got his permit issued without the additions! the full landscaping done across the front and a permit was also issued without a deed being issued at this point in time. So I just want to be very clear that is what we are saying. Stiles: He will have his landscaping before he gets an occupancy or he will bond for it. He also will, if that has been missed somehow that he hasn't dedicated that right of way that wi l l be lane before he gets an occupancy. McGiisick: I don't have a problem with that, we are talking about an occupancy situation, I am talking about the starting of a building permit. We have already missed sewer line that we have gvt to rip back out of the road again providing I get my permit, It would have been nice a cvupie of days agv to know this because the sewer line was at a paint that all we had to do is tie into it. But now we have to rip it all back up again providing I da get this permit. Stiles: I don't understand what sewer line had to be ripped' McGlisick: Not sewer excuse me water line, I apologize far that, The water line is being put in there and I was very willing to pay for it to go across the road while we were there but I couldn't get that done. Sa they are passed that paint now. Morrow: Da you have your sense of direction navy? Stiles: I think we are all pretty clear on what we (inaudible). McGiisick: Would it be passible to get a written reques# of what ! need to finish to get my permits? Carrie: can we do that? Time wise, ~ days or 3 days, what does the scheduling look like to get that to h i m? Stiles: I can get that by Friday. McGlisick: Mayor and council I thank you for your time, Meridian City Council July 1 ~, 1996 Page 50 ITEM #15: DISCUSSIGN GF ORDINANCE 1 W?Ol: ESTABLISHING CGMMISSIUNEI~S FOR CITY DEPARTMENTS: Corrie: We gat a new one that Wayne handed me I think. Marrow: A minute to review and read please? Berg: Do I have one Wayne? Crookston: I believe that you do, I just made copies at City Hall tonight and I do have the original. if it passed you need it and if it isn't you don't. Rountree: Mr. Mayor, one consideration, I know we have some folks here that have been here and told to be here at about 9:30 tonight for department business and are kind of pacing outside. I am wandering if they might just move them up and ~inaudibfe}. Currie: I have nu problem with that. Rountree: It is a request to consider a fence variance (End of Tape) ITEM #1 S: DEPARTMENT REPORTS: Carrie: Gary, an the fence variance. Smith: Mr. Mayor and Council members, I think you have in your possession a memo that wrote concerning the applicant's request to vary from our fence ordinance. if I can just find mine. Da you have a copy of that enema? Attached to that is a copy of their plot plan that shows the location of the fence in comparison with the back of sidewalk on Time Zone Way. The fence has been constructed in that location. Crookston: Gary, I am sorry fur interrupting you, what are these people's names' Smith: Mr. and Mrs. Gaehner, I am sorry I don't have the address it is an Tink Place, 2560 S. Mr. Tink Place, that is in Los Alamitos Subdivision. l think Mr. Tink was a race horse. The fence committee met to consider their request to place this fence in that sideyard setback area. After a lot of discussion the Fence Committee was deadlocked two to two. That is why it is before you this evening because you are the next step in the appeal process. The owners did obtain a fence building permit and they were given a page from our ordinance that shows the location of fences whether it be a corner lut or an interior !at with the allowed heights. The fence was not inspected by our building inspector, they did not, I checked with them and they did not have record of a calf for the inspection. Qne of Meridian City Council J u I y ~ ~, ~ 996 Page 51 the things that I did not put in my memo but you need to be aware of it is that this street Time Zone Way has a l think we refer to it as a parkway which is a landscape strip between back of sidewalk and between back of sidewalk. It is about 5 feet in width so showing on the plot plan is the sidewalk, if you go toward Time Zane there is a five foot strip of grass there and then the curb. Typically an subdivision streets your curb and gutter and sidewalk are adjoining each other. In this case from the back of curb from the travel way you actually have approximately ~ 4 feet to the fence. l think that was one of the things that was really hanging the Fence Committee up of these two member, well 1 think all of us were hung up a little bit on it. Typically a fence this close you don't have that additional five fee# to the curb. That is why we have been holding the fences back ten feet from the back of sidewalk just sa we had in effect then we have ~5 feet from the curb. Mr. and Mrs. Goehner were arguing that point also that there is mare space given from the back of curb to the fence even though the fence sets four feet from the back of sidewalk. Morrow: Sa the total distance from curb then is Smith: Is approximately ~ 4 feet. You have a five foot planter strip ar grass strip from the back of curb then you have a five foot sidewalk and then you have faun foot of grass again. So from the curb itself yvu actual ly have ~ 4 feet of open space. Marrow: Normally you require ten feet from back of sidewalk. Smith: Normally we require 14 feet from back of sidewalk then you would have the five foot of sidewalk to the back of curb so you have ~ 5 feet. So comparing the two you are just ~ foot short of what we normally would allow far a variance. There is na sight problem from Mr. Tink Place, a vehicle pulling out from Tink looking to the left, looking to the east, there is no site problem there with the fence in its present location. The only issue that we normally deal with here is the issues that we deal with are the site for the travelling public whether they are in an automobile or pedestrians and then we deal with the safety aspect for pedestrians walking down the sidewalk being next to a 6 foot fence. Now the other thing that Mr. ~oehner brought up that the fence built along the irrigation ditch, well I show it as an irrigation canal but it is actually Nine Mile Drain is a 6 foot foot rod iron fence and that does extend all of the way to the property line or the right of way line of Time Zone as a 6 foot rod iron fence. He asked the question if his fence had to come back to setback line would that rod iron fence have to stop at setback line. !didn't have an answer for him I didn't know, I believe that was a perimeter fence on the first phase but it was also a requirement of the Council or the Irrigation District that the ditch be fenced. The other issue that was brought up at the meeting and I have since discussed this with my staff, Mr. Coehner indicated that he asked one of the girls in the office if a variance was required based on the plot plan he had with him when he picked up the permit and he was told that it wasn't required. The, I don't know what to say other thana copy of the fence ordinance Meridian Gity Council July ~ Q, ~ 99B Page ~2 was given to Mr. Gaehner and it is very clear where the fences are to be built. So, i have instructed staff that it is very simple, here is a picture of what you can da if you can't do this then you have to request a variance. It isn't any mare complicated other than that. Crookston: Gary, what is the status of the adjoining properties? Smith: There is nothing going an at the east because it is a new section of subdivision sa there hasn't been anything built and of course you have 60 feet of ditch before you get to the other perimeter fence that will be built or is being built ar has been built along the ditch line. The property directly across the street #o the south has no fence along its east boundary. Craakston: Is this a corner lot? Smith: vl~ell it is in a way because it is cornered on one side by Mr. Tink Place and it is cornered an the other side by the Nine Mile Drain, but it is not a corner lot on the basis as far as streets are concerned. It is a career lot with Tink and Time Zone. Craakston: Does that create a sight problem them? There would be no road because part of it is adjacent to Nine Mile Creek. Smith: The culdesac is on one side and the Nine Mile Creek is on the other side of it. It is a carnet lotto Tink Place and Time Zone. But there shouldn't be a big visual problem to the east because you have 6g feet of open space before you even get to a building lat. The only time we are really concerned about these fences out in that setback area is if somebody is building a lot adjacent to it and they also have a driveway that is adjacent to the praperky line next to the fence. Morrow: Let me ask you this Gary is this located right by the culdesac that backs up to South Locust Grove? Is that where we are talking about here's Smith: If you leave Locust Grave travelling east it is quite a ways before you get to Nine Mile Drain and it is right there at Nine Mile Drain, Craakston: I am sorry on what was submitted to the City it says irrigation canal Smith: That is Nine Mile Drain. Crookston: So it is not a canal? Smith: No, it is either a drain ar a creek and that depends on whether you are a developer Meridian City Council July ~ B, ~ 996 Page 53 or Nampa Meridian Irrigation District. Currie: Gary, I understand that the fence is there now. Smith: Yes sir, it has been constructed in the location that is shown an the plat plan. Marrow Mr. Mayor, could I ask we have two members of the fence committee here, could we ask their thoughts? Smith: Three Morrow: Three? Stiles: Gauncilman Rountree, Bill Gordon and myself, Malcolm MacCoy from P & Z is the other member of the committee. Rountree: Sa you want to put us on the spot? Marrow: I want to hear your opinion. Rountree: I cast my vote in this situation to allow the fence to stay. What finally drove me to that conclusion was the fact that the parkway or park strip is present there and we have sufficient space to provide for a site distance which is one of the primary reasons for the fence setback to begin with. Some of the information I think that transpired between the City and the applicant with respect to the building permit that was issued, I am not going to point any fingers but they da have a building permit and they built their fence per that building permit. Looking at it and going vn site and reviewing it though it does potentially establish a precedence far future fence construction in the neighborhood in this particular instance I voted to allow it to stay. Marrow: Was that a vote with or without scalding? Rountree: Minor scalding. Marrow: Chief? Gordon: Gauncilman Morrow and Council, I voted the fence should comply with the ordinances. Although this is a unique situation with that planter strip in there, there was same consideration given to that. The reason I stayed with the fence ordinance was a copy afthe picture which is right in the ordinances was given to the owner of the house and it is very clear where the fence are to go. Anything short of that requires a variance. So I Meridian City Council Duly ~ a, ~ ~s~ Page 54 voted to stay with the variances that we have been allowing throughout the City of Meridian. Marrow: Let me ask you this Gary, was there a double fee charged because of no inspection? Smith: Na, fence permits are issued without any plans being required. The property owner just comes to the office and asks far a fence permit and they pay their fee, the permit is given to them along with a copy of the fence ordinance that shows pictorially how the fences are to be placed. The heights and the location. Marrow: Da we as a building department not do any inspections upon the completion of those fences? Smith: Mlle da if we are called and attached to your copy is a copy of an inspection record and I have highlighted dawn there that is in bold print it says please call 887-1 ~ 55 for inspections. But they are sa busy that they don't have time to chase fence permits out, ga back and see if the fence is done. Granted the fence posts are put in and they are concreted in generally and a period of time goes by from that point until Boards are actually nailed to the fence past. We don't have any record for inspection for this fence an the computer and that is only place the records are kept. I don't have any record that a call was placed, l don't know. Carrie: Haw did it get brought up that they had the fence in the wrong place anyway? Smith: Weil I think somebody called, I remember having phone calls with Bob because he was in Halley of and an back and forth on a project and we were talking to his wife, I don't remember exactly how it happened but I think somebody called in. I don't know, but I think ended up writing a letter to Bab saying that he needed to do something with it because it was in violation of the ordinance. Carrie: does Council have any further questions? Smith: Mr. Mayor I might add one other thing, i think the reason that we said as a fence variance committee and suspect that 99°/° of the fence variance requests that we hear are concerned with corner lots, And the fact that typically corner lots are not any larger than interior fats and they da not with the sideyard setback of 20 feet ar a side street setback of 2a feet they lose a lot of back yard. That is one of the reasons that we have so much business as this fence variance committee is sa these folks with Garner lots can have more back yard, Chief Gordon lives on a corner lot and sv he knows exactly what the situation is although his fence is back at the setback line. ll1le had one other corner lot that came ~M1 :.. Meridian City Council July 1 d, ~ 996 Page 56 in at the same meeting that had a significant back yard and it was denied because there wasn't any real reason far the variance to be given on that standpoint alone. And I guess you get into an opinion status of what is a big back yard. It depend an haw young you are and how much grass you like to mow I don't know or how many children you have. So we are trying to walk a line here between allowing a Garner lotto have a yard that is usable for the family for the resident plus providing safety for the travelling public and vehicles and for the walking pedestrians and not creating a boulevard and alley way with a six foot fence that is looming up along side of the sidewalk. I think when we started out with our variance committee we did let a couple of those get away from us. They put the six foot fence on the property line and I can take you to it in Crestwood Subdivision and it looks like you know what, it is not goad. You end up with an unmanageable strip of ground and you can't da anything with it. Walking down the sidewalk you just feel like you are boxed in. That is not particularly the case with this one because of the parkway. I think it is a difficult situation and that is one reason that the fence committee is split on it. But with your masterful use of logic ! am sure that you will arrive at the correct decision. Corrie: ~n that note, does the Council have enough information at this point to make a decision? Crookston: Mr. Mayor, I think we ought to hear from the appellants. Corrie: That was my next question. Goehner: My name is Robert Goehner, in putting at the fence it was not done with malicious intent by any means. My intent was to do it right the frst time. Vllhen I first came inhere that way my main goal, I brought a set of plans in far review and I think inaudible} after I reviewed them, there was a landscape plan to scale, blab, blab, blab, that it was kind of understood that it was okay what I was doing so !went ahead and did it, The intent was to come in and apply for a variance at that time. But again I was under the understanding that it was okay. i never really reviewed that 8~ 12 by ~ 1 until I got Gary's copy with his letter. Then when I read it he is in fact right it is clear. Inaudible} I guess what I am looking at is that I did it with honest intent and to do it the right way. So that is why I am here tonight because now I have inaudible}. I personally don't see the problem with it because it is well constructed, probably better than most fences in the neighborhood. I did, I work for an engineering company so you overdo everything. At any rate, the bottom line is I tried to do everything right and I did get a permit. I have a lot of questions nowas there is no inspection blab, blab, blab. which I honestly never saw the inspection number at the bottom. I am asking why da I even need a permit. I felt that !did all the right things, I tried to do them properly. I don't see the dangers there with that fourteen foot. Thank you. Meridian City Council July ~ B, 1996 Page 56 Corrie: Any further questions of the applicant or staff? I guess we will entertain a motion one way or the other and see which way it flies. Rountree: Mr. Mayor, I would move that we vary the fence ordinance for this application to allowthefence to remain in place as constructed. Morrow: Second Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Rountree, second by Mr. Morrow, any further discussion? All those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea Corrie: Is there anybody else here that we need to do (inaudible) (Discussion Inaudible) Carrie: This is an that letter of explanation, Fire Light Estates Lot 2, Block 9. Stiles: Have you had a chance to read that that was submitted by Steve, that letter of explanation? Did you happen to bring a copy of the plat? (Inaudible) Stites: What happened was when Dien Johnson started the annexation process and the platting process this entire property was included. Sometime after the annexation he split off the existing house and sold it to another party. That party does not want to have tv give up the additional right of way at this time. They don't want the sidewalk extended through his praperky, that would put the sidewalk about ten feet from the front of his garage. He is not apparently willing to sign the plat as being part of the plat. I really don't see any problem with excluding that lot, however I didn't want it to be just a staff level decision that this was part of the project and all of the sudden it is not because it has gone through the entire process and the final plat. This only came up when he gat to the County Engineer's office and he determined that was separate ownership and that the certificate of owners is not correct. So I don't know, it is a nice house that is there, it is pretty close to the road. I haven't seen the inside, it looks like they have lane significant modifications to the outside. It is really not part of the plat as far as having any access or being really connected to it. Corrie: This is the one on the end an the corner? Meridian City Council July 10, 199 Page 57 Stiles: It is nat clear an the Garner it is a gray house, i think it has same brick on it. (Inaudible) Carrie: You are an City water now and sewer? (Inaudible) Stiles: The developer daes have an agreement they are required to hook that up to City sewer and water and it is annexed. But what he is requesting is that they be able to redraw their plat to exclude that and have it reflected in the legal description far the plat. Tolsma: So they still can't give up their 17 foot easement though even though they are taking off this plat here their easement is still going to be (inaudible) Peterson: The 1l foot is fine inaudible} it was originally a ~8 foot easement that is an their deed but then if this plat goes through we will change that to a 45 foot easement and that is the problem. The previous developers didn't disclose to them that the easement would grawfram 25 to 48 feet. That is why all of a sudden those property owners said wait we agreed tv allowthe subdivision to ga but we didn't agree to give up inaudible}. Tolsma: (Inaudible) Peterson: When ACHD widens the road it will be an issue again. When i spoke with Karen Gallagher at ACHD she said they didn't have any plans at least within 5 years to widen that. Tolsma: (Inaudible) that easement part of that deal just let them know the easement didn't go away just because (inaudible) Peterson: The easement now is 28 feet and there is no existing 45 easement until the plat is retarded. So you are right and they don't have a problem with the existing easement. They have a problem with Tolsma: (Inaudible) Peterson: Yau are exactly right, at same point in the future they will have to give that up. But the 45 fact easement now does not exist until the plat is recorded. And the unless you understand differently maybe when the Council approved the subdivision daes that mean that the easement exists legally. Meridian City Council J u l y ~ 0,199fi Page 58 Crookston: It exists once the plat is recorded. Peterson: So until they sign on the plat, (inaudible) they refuse to sign on the plat. (Inaudible) Rountree: (Inaudible) annexation, that was one of the terms of annexation to the City that they meet all of the requirements of ACHD. Crookston: It probably is Charlie but there really is na affect of that easement until the plat is recorded. Corrie: I know it doesn't make a lot of difference, are we talking about Lot 1 g or Lat 9, it says Lot ~ 0 in this letter of ~ 994, Marrow: I have a couple of questions, with the original approval of this if I am understanding this correctly, apparently it was approved as a part of the subdivision, Lot 9 was and then it was sold by the former developer an a meets and bounds description. It was sold in that manner because the plat had not been recorded. Peterson: Right, because there was not official lotto sell until it is retarded there is no lot to sell so they sold them a piece of ground and just surveyed off the meets and bounds basis. Morrow: Sa !guess my next question would be is that by virtue of that, that still does not set aside their responsibility for their highway improvements and the additional road right of way and soon and so forth. Thane requirements will still all be in place is that correct' Crookston: That is Correct. Morrow: And the City requirements of the subdivision process would still be in place correct? Crookston: Correct. Morrow Sa my specific question then would be is it appears to me that somebody needs to deposit to the road trust fund for the improvements in terms of the curb, gutter and sidewalk. Peterson: They have been inaudible}and will leave them with ACHD until such time that they widen the road. Meridian City Council July ~0, X995 Page 59 Morrow: So that has been done? Peterson: vile bonded for that entire strip that goes across the property and when I spoke to Karen that was our original position, Karen why can't we just leave the money here and when you decide to widen it you either pay them for the ground ar condemn it and take it and have the money for the improvements and we will just leave that money in the bonding with ACHD. Morrow: So that park is covered. Crookston: For the record, would you state your relationship with the subdivision's Are you an owner? Peterson: Yes, I am the Vice President of Pro-Terra Idaho which is the developer. Crookston: Who now is the owner of the land. Peterson; Correct, well we awn, he has created an additional company called Firelight Estates, Limited Liability Company which is the official developer which were the ~ Oga/4 owners of record. Smith: Mr. Mayor, may I ask a question of the applicant? Steve, !have gat two questions guess, on the third page of your dissertation, about the fourth line dawn it says neither of these standard procedures was followed either by the City or by the Dunns, I am not quite sure what that reference is ta. Peterson: I guess our attorney in Salt Lake helped me draft this, when !talked to Shari I think I misunderstood what she told me. When I initially discussed this problem with her she said as owners they should have signed some agreement ar disclosure so I think I somehawmisconstrued that to mean that there was an official procedure and then when talked to her the second time after the letter was given I would have changed this. When 1 first talked #o her I thought there was some official procedure if there are two landowners within a subdivision area. That is a good catch, that is probably a mistake. Smith; The other thing that 1 am wondering is an the second page of the plat under the certificate ofowners it states that Jack Dunn and Betty Dunn husband and wife do certify that they are the owners of the real property described as follows. So they are certifying under cerkificate of owners that they are part of the subdivision. Nowthey didn't sign the plat as owners, the President of Meridian Land Investors signed. So I just wander where does that put that, apparently when the Ada County Engineer ran a check on the ownership then he found that the Dunn's were owners of that Iot. Itilleridian City Council July ~ 0, ~ 995 Page 50 Petersan: Right there are a couple of issues there, the one being when we bought the property the legal description was the entire boundary of the subdivision excluding their lat. So the first certificate of ownership that we had didn't have Jack and Betty Dunn an there because we never purchased the property. Then when the engineer's made that catch they said if there are any other property owners within the boundary of the subdivision as shown on your pictorial plat then you would include them. At that time we went back to the engineers and had them after the fact include a signature line for Jack and Betty Dunn. That is when they refused to sign, that is sort of a separate issue on how they gat an the plat in the first place which they weren't on initially. So wrapped around this whole question of can we just take them out of the plat is also a question of then do we go back and get the signatures again ar da !just have Hubble Engineers redo the plat and the legal description of the property. vVe would be glad to do either but it just depends on what is the mast proper way to proceed. Rountree: They have been annexed and they are taken out of the subdivision and then that annexation would have to amended to show them annexed by a meets and bounds description far that lot. And then, do we have to amend annexation ordinances. Crookston: Na, because the annexation ordinance is a meets and bounds description Rountree: Of the entire thing. Crookston: Right Rountree: So if it just goes south out of the subdivision then really there isn't anything that needs to be done. Smith: Nothing other than changing the plat and the boundary description of the plat would change in the certificate of owners that boundary description would change. The lot numbering would change. Rountree: Have they or will they be hooking up to City water and sewer? Smith: They will be yes and they can without any special requirements because they are in the City. Petersan: vUhen we build the subdivision such that we have sewer and water connections that will go right to their lot and those are already installed. Gary would it be your impression that wee would be able to change the ownership side of the plat. The engineer's have the capability to do that aver at Hubble I don't know. Meridian City Council July ~ d, ~ 996 Page 61 smith: Nowadays they have these things an computer aided drafting but in this case they are going to have to do it by hand I think. You don't want to start over with a!I of the signatures. Peterson: That is our hope that we wouldn't have to da that. smith: I don't know where this puts the plat as far as the legal standpoint if you start changing things after somebody has signed it. These guys that have signed off on it the surveyor of course that is not a problem, the Ada County Highway District that !don't knave because all of a sudden you are removing same of the right of way #hat you agreed to dedicate. Centro! District Health I am not sure, and of Will Berg and my signatures is responding to the City Council`s decision. Morrow: ~o Counselor, tell me where da we go from here? Crookston: well I think that Gary's point is very goad, I think that there is going to have to be either deeds or easements so that everything that was done as part of the plat is, that it remains being done and still stands in place. The owners of the property consent to that and da whatever deeding so that there is no effect an the loss of that lot from the plat. ~a that we don't lase right of way far ACHD and we don't lose if there are any easements for sewer and water, sa we don't Iose those. Peterson: Those would never be affected on any lot other than the subject lot so the whole rest of the subdivision will remain as is. (Inaudible) Peterson: UIle have built it so if they want to hook in they can hook into pressure irrigation, water and sewer. Tolsma: What you are saying then is even though those people or that lot is off that plat that the (inaudible) except they just assume not have to put in the curb, gutter and sidewalk in at this time (inaudible). Crookston: That is basically correct Ron, what has to be done is so that as I see it the City will consent to da this if all of the requirements are met so that what was done is not lost. Tolsma: So what they are doing is getting their !ot removed from the subdivision but they are not really gaining anything because the right of way is still going to be dedicated inaudible} Meridian City Cauncil July 1 a, ~ 996 Page 62 Crookston: That would still have to ga to ACHD yes. Tolsma: But it just won't have to be developed right now (inaudible). Crookston: They would have to consent that it not be developed right now. Petersan: INe are not really taking anything from ACHD what we are saying is that the intended right of way that you would have if this subdivision were recorded as is there is going to be a 5o foot frontage that you want get. Sa that we are not taking, they don't' have anything to take at this point, the 45 foot right of way that does not exist for ACHD until the plat is signed. Tolsma: These people are not gaining anything by leaving the subdivision, it is going to cost them the same to stay in the subdivision. Petersan: That is not exactly true, if they were to sign the plat and ACHD would require immediately that the sidewalk would be built they would lase 28 feet of their property. Eventually it will happen you are right. Bentley: Are these people fully aware and understanding that this is going to happen? Peterson: !explained that to them, they are at the point where they are a little irrational he was pulling our stakes out of the property and just trying to stop it any way he could. I told him and !explained that to him that eventually if ACHD wanted the ground they would be the negotiator far it and if the Dunn's weren't willing to negotiate they have the power of imminent domain and could take it if they felt it was far public use. But it does buy them a number of years until ACHD does decide to widen Ten Mile. Carrie: Council? Marrow: l guess far point of discussion to move along from my perspective, I don't have a problem with doing the change, exempting the lat. V11e are protected from the standpoint the trust fund deposits far curb, gutter and walk. Very candidly he is absolutely right when ACHD does improve that it wi11 be either negotiated far sale ar it will be condemned and ga through that process. So that is taken care of. [ would hype that one of the things that we as a Cauncil will do is as point of information to you is that we are going to be lobbying hard to have that road built prior to five years. Peterson: Sa that was not goad news to you when I tall you it was five years. Morrow: Inaudible} Sa l guess the issue is that I don't really see a problem as long as we Meridian City Council July 10, 1995 Page 53 satisfy the questions of Wayne and Gary with respect to (End of Tape) Bentley: Inaudible} agreement with Wait, I dust wish these other people had shown up tonight too so we could make them well aware of the fact that they are probably not going to have a choice in this issue that they are going to Iose the right of way and they are going to have the sidewalk and the whole ball of wax. Corrie: In another five years, I have been talking to the director about Ten Mile. Marrow: Let me offer this as a take off of what Glen is saying, maybe it would be to our beneft whatever conclusion we came to to notify these folk in writing by registered letter? Corrie: Apropos I think, shall we make a motion that we allow the staff then and the attorney to draw up the agreement that they be removed from the Fire Light plat according to law? Morrow: Is that a motion? Carrie: It would be but I can't make it. Morrow. (Inaudible) Crookston: I think it would be appropriate to have the agreement drafted by the applicant and ! think it is very appropriate that I review it. But I don't think it should be the expense of the City. Morrow: Let me rephrase my matian then, !would move that we approve the exemption of Lat 9 from the Fire Light Estates plat subject to staff, City Attorney reviewing all legal issues as may be involved and that the applicant furnish the agreement for Counsel review of the split off. Bentley: How about including the notification Marrow: l am sorry to finish the motion, the notification by virtue of City to the Dunn's through a registered letter of the action taken by Council in short explanation of the sang and short term effects. Bentley: Second Carrie: Motion made by Mr. Marrow, second by Mr. Bentley, you said, paint of discussion, you said review by the Counsel? Meridian City Council July 10, 1995 Page 5~ Morrow: Counselor. Carrie: okay, any further discussion? All those in favor? apposed? MOTION CARRIED: Ail Yea Peterson: Just one question, do you want me to draft the letter, the agreement I will draft, the letter would that come from Morrow: The letter to the Dunn's should be drafted by us. ITEM #16: WATER/SEWER/TRASH DELINQUENCIES: Carrie: This is to inform you in writing if you choose to you have the right to a pre- determination hearing at 1:3o p.m. on ~-~-95 before the Mayor and City Cauncii to appear in person and be judged on the facts and defend the claim made by the City that your water, sewer and trash bill is delinquent. You may retain Counsel. Your service will be discontinued on 7-19-95 unless payment is received in foil. Is there anyone present that wishes to contest their water, sewer and trash delinquency? They are hereby informed that they may appeal or have the decision of the City reviewed by the Fourth Judicial District Court pursuant to Idaho Code. Even though they appeai their water will be shut off. The amount of the turn off list is $5,51 D.89. I will entertain a oration that the delinquency list be approved. Bentley: Sa moved Talsma: Second Currie: Mativn made by Mr. Bentley, second by Mr. Tolsma, any further discussian~ Rountree: Mr. Mayor, I noticed an here an account number 4-152x, Kent Barney, I think it might be appropriate that if the notices haven't gone out on that, that is probably not something the family needs at this paint in time and that it might be deferred for another month anyway. Morrow: Mr. Rountree I too think that way, I guess my question would be is whether we defer it or forgive it and be on dawn the road. It is $58. Carrie: i don't think that you can da that, Counselor? Crookston: The ordinances require that all the users pay their bills. !agree that it is a very Meridian City Council July ~ 0, ~ 996 Page 65 sarrawE'ul time far the Barney's, I am sure they probably have other bills but I don't think it is appropriate to grant a waiver of that requirement. Marrow: Alright if we can't do that then Berg: l don't know if that is their address, just a paint of interest this is a delinquency list that was made up, they may have already paid this bill up to this date and it may be water under the bridge. I am not sure that this is their residence either. It might be the rental and the only way to get people ar the renters to pay the bill is to shut off water also. Crookston: I would be very surprised if it were the Barney's. Marrow: Maybe, let's da same research there and be somewhat sensitive about haw we handle it then. Berg: I sure wi I I. Carrie: It hasn't came across my desk that it was shut off. I didn't even see it ~inaudible~. Berg: In reality the renters could have came in and paid it since the second of July and now. Rountree: Just a paint to consider. Carrie: Any further discussion? All those in favor of the turn off list with exception of the discussion? apposed? M~TI~N CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #17: APPROVE BILLS: Morrow: Sa moved Tolsma: Second Carrie: Motion made by Mr, Marrow,. second by Mr. Tolsma to approve the bills, any further discussion? All those in favor? apposed? M~TI~N CARRIED: Ail Yea ITEM #~ S: DEPARTMENT REPORTS: ~- t Meridian City Council July 10, 1985 Page 56 Carrie: Gary? Smith: Mr. Mayor and Council members, first item that I have for you tonight is the bids that we received for the improvements to the golf course, the second phase. Do you have a copy afthat bid abstract? There were four bidders, three schedules that were bid. You can see the results of the bidders. We had three bids for schedule number 1, which was supplying irrigation equipment. Nobody bid installing the irrigation equipment which would be the piping and the valves. Then we had one bidder for the greens construction. Since that time I believe that Brad had received some prices far installation of the equipment. I am not sure where the Goff Course Committee is an what was bid. Perhaps Councilman Marrow could address that, Morrow: [can, we, let me take it from there far a minute Gary, where we are at is we as of our today's meeting have totally jab carted the entire job, all categories have been covered. Essentially we are dawn to the point where we will be coming and I will be running down the categories briefly. We wilt becoming next Tuesday to award bids based on the bid schedule that you see here. ~n the ones where there was no bid and we have the ability to award based on what we have negotiated. So, at this point our operating budgets are sprinkler installation $68,821, pump system $18,59x, seeding and prep $4,050, pond to pond piping $85,090, sprinkler parts $12,114, green construction $98,529, pump house $5,900, seed $9,0x0, pump house electrics $1,300, rough grade $25,OOO, culverts and bridge $2,000, head works and concrete X2,500, for a total operating budget of $341,494. At this point things that we need to cover yet that we have not got an accounting from this is there is cash that has come from Paul White in Cherry Lane Meadows that we need to find within the City accounting system. There is cash from Goifview Estates with Gary Marshall and we need to find that cash and we will reconcile those things. We will reconcile the costs that may have same gray areas in them between now and then and make a presentation for the build out package by next Tuesday's meeting and the award of those bids. That is also why we were discussing the need to have the deed completed by the 16th because that would be the last step in bringing the entire package together and going to full construction. Construction schedule would be seeding in September. Any questions ar comments? Rountree: Everybody must be really busy? Marrow: Inaudible} my own construction projects the landscape won't even talk to you and the reason being they gat rained out until May and they are generally coming out of winter 60 to S0 days behind and this year those poor guys are 120 to 140 days behind schedule. Smith: We had quite a few people show up far the preWbid for this too and we were very C.:.... Meridian City Council JuEy ~ 0, ~ 996 Page 67 surprised that we didn't get more response. Marrow: Didn't we have ~ 2 ar ~ 5 folk? Smith: The ream was full with people sitting around: (Inaudible) Smith: Thank you, the second item is our Five Mile Creek Assessment Study that CHUM Hill has been doing for us. Little bit of a faux pas on my part and 1 guess really CHUM too because they took off an the project and did a Iot of work without a signed agreement. But neverkheless all of a sudden I realized that we didn't have a signed agreement with them and this is a significant project in terms of cost. It is estimated to around $80,000 and at this point they have submitted to us a draft assessment which we have reviewed and made comments vn and returned them far revisions. I think we are into the project something around $66,000 right at the moment. The $86,660 was budgeted last year in the budget far the waste water department for this study. This study is a requirement of EPA on our NPDES permit that was issued to us four years ago. So I am here before you with hat in hand and requesting your approval of this agreement to which the work has been basically completed. Rountree: And if we don't? Smith: well gosh I don't know. Morrow: Let me ask you this then what we need to do is a motion to approve with the Mayer to sign and the City Clerk to attest or is it even too late far that's Smith: Na I think that would be appropriate. ! would suggest that it be handled that way. My concern was that we have something official in the files far auditing purposes if the auditor checks against the expenditure that we do have a signed agreement. Morrow Listen I know Chase two guys that have been extracting a real high price from you bud. I would move then that we authorize the Mayor to sign and the City Clerk to attest the Five Mile Creek water study. Bentley: Second Carrie: Matian made by Mr. Marrow, second by Mr. Bentley that the Mayor sign and the Clerk to attest on the signed agreement, any further discussion? All those in favor? apposed? . Meridian City Council J u I y ~ 4,1995 Page 5$ M~TI~IV CARRIED: Alf Yea f,. E Smith: The other item that I have and Shari thought maybe that she had brought this before you befare but I couldn't recall. ~n the Van Auker Cammerce Park building that was constructed that 50,050 square foot building on Cammerce Park east of Eagle l~aad, they were given a temporary septic tank appraval far that warehouse building by the City Council on May 15,1995. It was approved to be used that is the septic tank for no Langer than the date of May 15, 1995. The idea there was that it was an incentive far Mr. Van Auker to construct a sewer line vuhich was a requirement of his annexation that 130 some acres whatever it was. They did, Mr. Van Auker did hire an engineer and they launched into the design of it and the appraval of the plans was made by the City, by DECD and the last thing that !had heard which has been several months ago now the easement negotiations had fallen apart between Van Auker and the Elixir Industry property, As you probably remember there was an easement problem initially between Van Auker and Gemtane which was resolved partly through the efforts of the City officials. But right now or at least two months ago that easement negotiation which hadn't be a problem as I understood it between Elixir and Van Auker has came to a grinding halt and sa nothing is happening on that sewer line extension. Things continue to proceed as business as usual from Mr. Van Aukerwith the ~lsan Bush No. subdivision which has came befare you in a preliminary plat format. The Porky Park Subdivision which came before you as a preliminary plat. All of Chase, both of Chase subdivisions require the extension of the sewer line through the Elixir property. I didn't know haw you wanted to proceed an this thing so that is why I brought it up. Marrow: t~uestion, when that conversation, that meeting was held the representative from Elixir property lead all of us to believe that it was na problem and a done deal. I guess my question is what has became ar what has made it no longer a done deal Smith: I don't know. Marrow: The second question is can we as a City bring these people to the table and find out what the issues that we are dealing with are? And I guess the third point is if nothing gets built in Porky Park inaudible} and ~Ison Bush until there is sewer stuff there. I guess what we da in the chart term is you can't very well plug the hale ante it working. So how are we going to, we authorize a continued use of the septic tank for that one building. Cowie: Is that the Richardson's land that we are talking about? Smith: f don't know who is occupying their building, but they just inaudible} Morrow: Yes Bab it is between Caars and whoever. So I guess in the short term we Meridian City Council July 10, ~g9~ Page 6g authorize them to continue to use the septic system and in the long term why don't we convene a meeting with the folks at Elixir and fiind out what the issue is. Corrie: It is very appropriate (inaudible) we need to find out though. Morrow: My frustration here is they seemed at least at the meeting that we were at they were the most enthusiastic supporters of the whole sewer issue and now they have became major problems it sounds like. Smith: vllell I think Paul Clayton their local representative was very agreeable to it but begin #a wonder just how much authority he has. Morrow: That is probably a real great question. Smith: I will contact Van Auker's representative and see what is happening. The project guess from my standpoint is really their project, it is not a City project. They haven't asked for any help from the City as far as that easement is concerned. ~bviausly as you mentioned they are going to have to have the sewer if those two subdivisions are going to go forward. And sa they are going to have to dv whatever is necessary to get those easements. I guess from the standpoint of the City if the City wants to see those areas developed then the City gets involved to try and help the cause. Marrow: I guess from my perspective if vue didn't want to see them develop we should not have been approving the subdivisions nor am I willing to approve anymore temporary septic systems. So It seems to me that it is commensurate with our responsibility to approve the subdivision and said we want to develop it. So let's help fiind out what the problem is sa we can move it aft dead center. Smith: but it would be nice if theywouldcome to us and say we have a problem we would like you to help but we haven't heard boo for some time now. Maybe it has gone away I don't knew. Rountree: vile can initiate that by requesting them tv provide us a gate when they are going to stop utilizing that septic system. Smith: Yes Rountree: If they then identify a problem then I guess we can offer assistance in terms of trying to be the catalyst. Smith: I can do that. Meridian City Council July ~ Q, ~ 99~ Page 76 Smith: Well Mayor Corrie and myself and Bruce Freckletan met with Albertson's people and their architect and they backed me into a corner and away from requiring the eight in line because they said absolutely na they weren't extending water or sewer line across their property to adjoining property they weren't going to dv it, biah, biah, biah. Their real estate department it was against their policies. There was just no way it was going to happen period well it has happened. Gbviously I am not a very good poker player and never have been it what it bails dawn ta. Anyway the sewer line is in my mind not resolved. I wrote that letter to vVayne and I made some, asked some questions. The first thing is the maintenance of the sewer line, second thing is off the end of the six inch line if a four inch line is extended to Lovan it is approximately 2 foot deep at his property line. There is nv way that can be extended on a gravity basis to serve a building on his site. So the only thing he can do is to build an ejector pump on site and pump into a manhole at that location. if that is the case then perhaps the four inch line should be a End of Tape} Crookston: Gary, let me interject here. The letter itself only deals with the water is that correct? That is the way I read it. Smith: The next to the fast paragraph, "I copied this letter to Aibertson's site architect Craig Slocum I am directing the appropriate construction contract change inaudible} design drawings routed to the City far its records illustrating on site water and sewer uti I ities extensions as demanded." I have met with Scott Edens and discussed the extensions of the sewer line and basically we discussed a four inch line extension off the end of their manhole in front of their future pad site on the west side of the building of the store to Lavan's properly. Corrie: Gary is that a six inch line straight to that pads Smith: Yes sir, that was the one that f had originally requested there be an eight inch. If it was built as as eight inch it could have been laid at ~ tenths percent slope instead of one percent. It could have been labeled as a lateral very easily maintained and owned and operated by the City of Meridian. And a four inch line extended from that point to Lvvan's would have been approximately five foot deep at his property fine. Morrow: Thereby making it a usable deal. Corrie: Maybe we aught tv go back and tell them that is what we want. Tell them tv brin g it up ~~naudibie} Smith: I think one of the contents of the, one of the comments in Mr. Moiierup's letter to Wayne that the six inch line remain in place as is. That they wanted us to agree to that. Meridian C ity Counci July 10, 1995 Page ?l Craokstan: That is correct. They are wanting to pave by the 20 something of July. I am not sure what the date is exactly. Cowie: If they put that eight inch line and do what we ask them they could do it probably. Otherwise they are going to get back logged (inaudible) Tolsma: (Inaudible) Smith:llllell 200 feet, $4800 that includes the meter tile, is it $5800 Cowie: Well construction, design and easement comes to $5800. Tolsma: (Inaudible) Morrow: No matter how you (inaudible) Smith: That is one reason that Waliy Lavan needs to be made aware ofi these costs that they are prapasing because this is a change order to a big project and these contractors an change orders they will gauge you at every turn. Marrow: You are absolutely right, we are goad at that. (Inaudible) Morrow. The truth of the matter is that on a 1 1/2 inch water line service line residentially now we will pay a plumber 225 to 2.50 a lineal foot to supply the material and put it in and we are probably in say 50 feet of trench doing the back hoe another $150 so the whole thing in a 50 foot deal will be a total of $300 or $250. What I am suggesting to you is the $29 a lineal foot is a substantially expensive water line. The sewer line is the same kind of deal we pay $4.50 a lineal foot for the line and installation and plus excavation and there on this deal they are almost $24 a lineal foot, 23 something. So how can we, what is it you need from us? Smith: Well, I don't know really I wanted to make you aware of where these guys were. Morrow: (Inaudible) Smith: !wilt just wait until I hear from Wayne then on my questions on Mr. Mollerup's letter. Crookston: I think it would be beneficial for me to knave whether or nat the City is agreeable to that for the sewer fior the four inch line. I don't think there is, Gary tell me if Meridian City Council July ~ ~, ~ 996 Page 78 am wrong, I don't think there is much prablem with the water prablem. But the sewer is a prablem with the four inch line and having and ejector pump. It is just as you said the, a six inch line dawn Eight Mile lateral and then were Wally Lavan would pump into that six inch line and all it would be is a holding tank until the City came along and cleaned it up. Marrow: I guess Gary to give you the benefit of what my thoughts are is that I will support whatever you want to do here. The issue is and I agree with Bob is that we should be saying it is an eight inch deal and if this is where we are at then fine let's ga for it. l guess the other thing is boy are we learning a goad lesson here. But, you tell me what you want to do and I will support you. Because I don't have any problem going the eight inch. Smith: I guess my initial reaction is that we are not going to maintain a six inch service line, Therefore the easement isn't gaing to be the City of Meridian far their six inch service line. Morrow: And what I can see happening here long term is that without a vacation of the approved plat at some paint in the future somebody builds two mare buildings there and then here we go. Crookston: Well there are even mare problems than that because they are not even gaing on the plat now. The plat was approved but they have not recorded the plat. It is my understanding. They are saying that they are not going to do it. Smith: There has never been a plat submitted to us for signature. Marrow: Has it not been in a state of limbo at some point in time it could be submitted far signatures ten years from now? Crookston It could Smith: If it was approved, I don't remember if it was approved. It would have to come in under the time limitations from the ordinance. Crookston: l am not sure that we want a building there and a paved parking lot possibly two buildings actually and then tell them that we want something done after that period of time. I think it is a very hard deal to deal with because if we don't have same way tv have a stop work order !don't see that we are gaing to get anything done. They are gaing to go ahead and put in their sewer to their area and they are going to do anything about Mr. Lavan or the water if we don't have some means to stop them. Smith: I think they have committed to the water Vllayne, the sewer is the big issue here right nvw. l believe they will extend a four inch service line, I don't think that is the best 1 ~'s Meridian City Council July 1 fl,1998 Page 79 situation for the Lavan property, I mean he is not going to be able to gravity sewer into it unless he raises the site ups considerably. So he is gaing to have to pump to it. If he has a low water user an his site then it is not going to be a problem anyway prababl it want Y amount to much the ejector pump. It is just that they have jacked us around pretty good. Marrow: I guess, why don't you make a decision which way you want to ga and let's far the 8 inch deal and go from there, Haw da you feel about that? Smith: Illlell the 8 inch sewer is what we started out with. That was our re uirement tram q the beginning. Marrow: Let's get after it then, that is the way it is. (Inaudible) Rountree: Are all three of them stilt in effect ar just the one far the water? Smith: Just the one for the water. (Inaudible) Rountree: Can we stop work on the paving? Smith: Vve don't have anything to do with the paving other than the sewer and water line beneath the paving. If they just march an ahead and pave over it. I just don't knave how much of a battle we are going to have, if we ga back and require them to pull that six inch line out of the ground. Crookston: The six inch line goes all the way to Ten Mile. Smith: Yes the six inch line is out in Ten Mile Road connected to the manhole extended backto a couple mare manholes to their west boundary of the building. That is installed. Crookston: Have they yet been able to cannect~ Smith: They have approval from the Highway district to connect to the manhole. Rountree: ~Nhat are we talking about cost wise of eight inch pipe? Smith: It is hard to say an that job, four inch is gaing far $15 a foot. ! normal) ou et 8 YY g inch laid far that so I don't know. ~, .. t Meridian City council July ~ d, ~ 995 Page 80 (Discussion Inaudible) Rauntree: UlCould they have to dig it up? Smith: They would have to dig it up because it is in the wrong place, they would have to replace it. I assume they would have tv replace it or the same facatian. Morrow: okay, sa what da you want to do, do you want to ga for the S inch's Smith: I think it would be a hell of a battle (inaudible). I haven't heard anything from Wally Lovan at all, nothing. I don't know what he is doing other than we are fighting the battle. So I don't know whether or four inch line two foot below the ground is going to be satisfactory or not. Marrow: Igo you want to have a discussion with him and find out. Smith: I can da that. Rauntree: I think that would be the wise thing to do there is no sense of us entering the battle if there is no reason to battle. Smith: I guess the thing that bothers me about going back to an S inch line is that I kind of backed off of it when we had our meeting initially. Sa they know there is a weak point there and I am sure if they lined up their hat shot legal counsels they would just drill me into the ground. Corrie: (Inaudible) make them do the six inch all the way over there. Smith: Yes, I would suggest that. If he is going to pump into a line it is definitely an advantage to pump into a six inch line with a four inch line rather dumping into a four with a four. The price is the same according to Albertson's, they said it didn't matter if it was a four inch or a six inch it was still $9x40 ar whatever. Corrie: Maybe we ought to talk to Wally and (inaudible) Smith: Thank you Corrie: Shari, anything? Stiles: Mayor and Council I wanted to bring up this development agreement. The development agreement was previously approved by Council. However since then I have f l Meridian City Council July 1 Q,199B Page 81 had a meeting with the developer and his attorne . UVe a reed that some of t Y g he wording ~n the development agreemen# would actually be im ossible for them to da. one p of them was to get approvals for the bike path along Ten Miie prior to ettin an si nature an h' g g Y g ~s final plat. It is pretty apparent with same of the deafin s that we have had ' g that wouldn t probably happen loan. So this is the warding that their attorne came u y p wfth. The comments there are Wayne Craokston's. I don't know that ou can come u with . Y p a dec~s~an tonight but there seems to be a little roblem with the wordin as ` p g far as C, City of Meridian shall be solely responsible to obtain written a royals from the pp Bureau of Reclamation or Nampa Meridian Irrigation District to ermit the construc p tan. i think that since they have agreed to construct it they have to have some res onsibil~ p qty to those permits. But I think the intent there was that if a bike path were to be allowed it would h aye to come from a request for the City. Then item F uts the Cit uts a liabilit h y, p y on the City and I don't knave maybe it is okay with what Wayne has ut there. And ma bet p y his would all be a moot point because we would have to have a license a regiment befo g re anything happened in there. But these were changes that were ro osed b the a li p p y pp cant after your approval and so I dust wanted to get your input and see if ou have an roblem with t Y Y p hem yr any suggestions. If we could go ahead and get this wrapped up sa he could et his fat g p signed. Morrow: From my perspective l am in favor of that but I am not in favor of accepting any liability an the City's part. I think that I would leave ne otiations hereto ou g y and VIlayne and the thing that I am adamantly apposed to is acre tin an liabilit on a bike I~ g Y y path or any of that. That is not in the taxpayers best interest. Stiles: okay, Rountree: Does that answer the question on C? Stiles: It doesn't really answer that question, I think it could be reworded so that ~t ~s clear that they have the responsibility to get the plans a roved. pp Rountree: That would be the developer's respansibilit . Y Stiles: Yes Rountree: That would be my preference. Morrow: I don't think it is our responsibility, it is their subdivision it is their bike path. Rountree: It is as a condition of approval far their devela ment that should be p all Nampa Merfd~an ar Bureau of Reclamation need. It is a condition of a royal of thei pp r act~an. Meridian City Council July ~4, X996 Page 8 Stiles: It would be great if that was all they needed. Rauntree: ~Illell for them to take action with those folks to try and et some kind of an g agreement. Stiles: What they are also proposing is that none of the bike path would be constructed until the property on the other side ofi Ten Mile Creek is developed which is also owned right now by Van Hees but that doesn't mean he couldn't sell it. This develo ment y p agreement wauldn t have anything to do with that adjacent property if he did that. vllell it doesn't anyway. Morrow: Say that to me again now? The property on the north side ofi Ten Mile Stites: They don't, the first paragraph says they agree to construct the bike ath when the p land adjacent to the north boundary is developed. Is that in the first? Inaudible ~ } pedestrian bridge shall be 6 feet in width with steel girders and steel handrails to be constructed when the Kelly property on the north side of Ten Mile Creek is devela ed. p Rountree: So that is dust the bridge. Stiles: The pedestrian bridge portion of it. Rountree: I guess that has some sense to it if it never develops there is no need far a pedestrian bridge. Morrow: lNeil from a construction standpoint maybe you tear up part of our brill a as au y g y are trying to fashion your subdivision work. Stiles: I just wanted to run it past you. Marrow: Any other questions? Tolsma: I don't think we are going to get into taking over the operation and maintenance of the bike path either because that is the same problem out here (inaudible). Stiles: I don't think that individuals, developers are going to be able to et those a royals g pp for bike paths. Tolsma: (Inaudible) I don't think we want to have our parks department out there wandering up and down doing weeds or (inaudible) out there unless it is one continuous path (inaudible) for a pathway that is a 1/4 mile long (inaudible). Meridian City Council July 1 fl,1995 Page S3 Morrow: Shari, I think Ron's point is well taken inaudible} by the same token the homeowners ought to be the ones maintaining not the City Parks Department because this clearly benefits only the homeowners. If you have a continuous path and maybe under that circumstance there is same sense tv have the City oversee the maintenance of it or something. That is nat the case here. Stiles: Item E would have to be stricken too because it says developer and Whitestone Homeowners Association shall have no further duty to improve or maintain the bike path (inaudible) in the strip. Morrow: I think that is probably true, it should be stricken. Corrie: See, shall have further duty (inaudible) (Discussion Inaudible) Stiles: I will take that back to them and see if we can straighten that out then. Marrow: You and VIlayne can handle it. Stiles: Thank you (inaudible) Corrie; Chiefs Wayne'? Crookston: Nothing Corrie; Walt? Morrow: What happened to Item ~ 5'~ Carrie: That is where we are coming to now. Morrow: That is really the only thing that I have is discussion of the ordinance. I had a question in our box was a deal concerning the tax deductions of Sonya Day. Can you bring us up to speed on where we are at with that's Carrie: Vile went through the whole process to fnd out where we were and where she was and what she had done and what we had done. It boiled down to the fact that she had made some changes asking the additional $l5 be taken out of Federal tax and made a change in her VV~'s and when we made the process aver to the computers they pulled that one and they did not do the rate at they didn't do the rate married with the single rate at ~. Merldlan Clty CaunCll July 10,1996 Page 84 that point. Sa, consequently she didn't check it and then she came back and said that we stop taking the $l5 out now so they did and she didn't make a complete fill out form on the Vv2 and it wasn't a full year again it still wasn't caught or checked, She is comin back g and saying we are responsible but we really are not because it is their responsibilit to see . Y that their llv2 is that their tax is taken out correctly. It is a matter l think of an error when we went to the computer that they pull it out as married which was one but the other one she didn't da anything. Morrow. The additional $75 or whatever it is. Corrie: Well it was written an there (inaudible) they have a new one and fill it completely out from the get go so there are no questions about it. But still the liability runs with her it is her own responsibility to see that it is done correctly not the City. Bentley: Also, even if the form was ~Iled incorrectly she isn't out any more . If she of it Y g all along the time the difference was there wasn't enough withheld inaudible at the end } of the year. Corrie: (Inaudible) Patty has explained it to her (inaudible) Morrow: Do the department heads all have a tax chart showing, are those thin s not g available that you can get through the IRS that inaudible} have a certain amount of income and sa much withheld. Do the department heads all have those so that their employees can all check their stuff. Can you make sure that happens. Berg: The other thing that I have been emphasizing that the employees do is to check their check stub. I am really surprised at how many people don't they just cash their check. Morrow: If they look at their check stub, if I Ioak at my check stub I wouldn't have an idea Y if it was the right withholding or not unless I was able to Ioak at a chart. Berg: You would know from pay period if it was more or less and some of them don't even know that. Morrow: If I was changing it. Berg: Yes, if you were changing it ar concerned about withholdings, not gettin enou h out g g of one check. Morrow: I guess my question is there something I can reference to know that I am ettin g g enough out. If I am Meridian City Council J u I y 10,1995 Page 85 Berg: And really that all depends. If you are getting enough out is with your tax bracket and any other incomes. I know what you are saying. I will make sure they all have charts that they can look on whatever status and numbers (inaudible). I will make sure all department heads have that. Morrow: It should be just a matter of Berg: Well getting one and we will make copies of it. Corrie: That changes (inaudible) Morrow: Okay so then those explanations are taken care of given to her. Corrie: Yes, given to her I don't know. Morrow: The only other issue I have is the ordinance issue. ITEM #15: DISCUSSION OF ORDINANCE 1-707: ESTABLISHING COMMISSIONERS FOR CITY DEPARTMENTS: Carrie: I will make this pretty simply from my stand point, I have no problems whatsoever. Inaudible} if the Council wishes the President of the City Council to do the nominations rather than the Mayor so be it. I am not going to spend time in arguing with the situation. In fact one thing I do have a question with that I ask the Council to look at very closely is that item B on page 3. I read right through the minutes and Walt said this should bean audit budget function and I agree it is an audit and budgetary responsibility of the City Council. Under B it says inaudible} act as Liaison inaudible} between the City Council and Mayer and communicate the desires and interests of the departments to the Mayor and other City Councilmen and to communicate the desires and interests of the Mayor and other City Councilmen to that department inaudible}. That has nothing to do with auditor budget that just makes a layer that I don't think is necessary that the Mayor has to go through a Councilman to talk to the department head. There is nothing in there that I can find that has anything to do with audit or budget. Rountree: How about this version, it shall be the duty of each departments commissioner to act as a liaison officer between the City Council and that department to communicate to desires and interests of the City Council to that department and vice versa of the department to the Council alf as they shall be deemed to be in the best interest of the department of the City of Meridian. Carrie: In relationship to audit and budget? If you put that in relationship to audit and I Meridian City Council July ~0, ~99~ Page 86 budget I have no problem with that. I just don't want, since this is an ordinance that can touch the hands if this is an audit and budget ordinance then let's make sure that is what that is saying as far as audit and budget is concerned don't limit the Mayor can't talk to the department heads or anything else. Marrow: I don't think you ever will da that either way. Carrie: I agree with you wolf but let's make sure it says audit and bud et in there. g Rountree: Maybe, let's say within the authority of the Council Marrow: wait a minute Charlie if you go an with the rest of the paragraph it sa s it shall Y also be the duty of, then it begins to talk about the audit and budget functions. Carrie: Right, that is what I am saying is if you take out that first section u there which is p just verbiage and it shall be the duty of each commissioner to sign purchase orders, assist in the inaudible}which is exactly what the Council should be doing. But then ou et at yg H and to perform such other duties now that is when you get into administration is where l am getting a little hung up, H an page 4 and perform such other duties for and behalf of the department. If this is going to bean audit or budget type thing let's keep it audit and budget and not other duties that could came in there. Rountree: well I think that is clarified by the remainder of that sentence that are deemed authorized with the power and authority of the departments and I think that prababl au ht Y g to say of the Council. Carrie: okay, again what I am getting at is if this is going to be an audit and bud et g function let s be very clear that is what it is for and not to tie the hands of the Ma or #hat y he can t talk to the department heads ar that the Commissioners are doing administrative duties. Rountree: I guess I don't know that is within the power and authority of the Council is what I am saying Bob. Carrie: I agree with you. Rountree: And that is what it says here that is within the power and autharit of the Y Council. Corrie: If that is the agreement with the Council then I have no problem with that as Ian g as it reads that way to the Council. one other thing is I would like to have permission to Meridian City Council July ~Q, X996 Page Sl also evaluate the department heads performance, since t am working with, when I say I the Mayor (inaudible) to make sure we have all of the information (inaudible). Morrow: I think that is a given, I think that what ou do is when au are oin Y y g g to evaluate a department heads performance based on a performance evaluation each year for a couple of reasons not only for budget and audit pur ose but ou also have to hav P Y e tha# ~o~nt evaluation to the extent that by statute neither of us can inde endentl h' p y ire ar independently terminate a confirmed employee. And so I think in the Ma or ' y and Council form of government it is mandatory that interaction take lace. p Carrie: ! agree, I just want to make sure it specificall states if au are oin Y y g g to put ~t in an ordinance farm it should be pretty clear and not ambi uous. And a oin 1 have 9 g no problem with audit or budget at ail. !just want to make sure that we don't et the two ' g mixed up as far as administration and budget and auditin function. Because we ha 9 d that problem came up before. Sa just as long as the Council understands that we have two di fferent functions here. I think Charlie's paint is well taken but since it is oin tab . , g g e in ordinance farm it should be pretty specific. Rountree: ! guess I have a question then Bob, are au wantin then the Y g duties of the Mayor to be included in this ordinance inaudible ma be as a reamble to ~ Y p the personnel system that we create that the Mayor will da the administrative evaluation of the st , off from an administrative standpoint in concert with the provisions of this ordinance. Corrie: And I say that would be fine. (Inaudible) Morrow: And the deal is that I think here that this is the one ara ra h tal p g p king about the Department Camm~ssianer shall evaluate the De artment Head's erfar p p manse an an annual basis for the purpose of determining the department head solo level for t ry he nex# year's budget. Carrie: I think that the Mayor can put same in ut into that, p Morrow I don't disagree with that at all. In the sca a of the ordinance I think t ~ ' . p hat Charlie s poEnt is well taken. The scope of the ordinance it is a bud et and audit ordinance g type deal so it ~s fine here. What we aught to be lain with the ersonnel g p manual ~n establishing remember we have to establish those erformance evaluation r P p ocedures far the department heads and their empfayees and in that evaluation I think what ought to happen is that the commissioner and the mayor ou ht to be in concert as a 'oi g j nt evaluating team at the same time. ~o then you cover both of those. Yau actual) end u cov ' y p erEng all of the issues because then you have covered and b the a regiment of the Y g two you have covered the salary performance issue, you have covered the issue of ma be the o y utcame Meridian City Council J u ly ~ ~, ~ 998 Page 88 of that evaluation is that you bath would want to wish, ar you both would want to consult the Council about a change in position. And I think that in our performance stuff we ought to be setting it up so Chase depar#ment heads are jointly evaluated at the same time by that team and then that represents both functions. Carrie: I agree, and I just thought if it you put in there inaudible} I just wanted to make sure that this whale thing pertained to commissioners i# wasn't audit and budget function and not a straight function inaudible} Morrow: I don't see that. Carrie: 1 understand what you are saying but I just want it perfectly clear if it is in an ordinance farm that it doesn't get last in the shuffle. Morrow: Speaking of last in the shuffle it would be nice if we could get last in the shuffle right on out of here. Crookston: Just so 1 can make the changes an this. Let me run through what you did change. Marrow: I think we changed the ward an page seven. Crookston: There is no page seven. (Inaudible) ~auntree: Page two there is a typo, section ~ A, second line by majority vale, now that is happening in Shoshone but it is not happening here so it probably should be vote. (Discussion Inaudible) Morrow: (Inaudible) the third sentence from the bottom or the third line from bottom it should say property or business not nor. Carrie: Now you are going to leave the President of the City council to da the naminatin '~ g~ (Inaudible) Corrie: Are you going to keep in the (inaudible) act as liaison officer (inaudible) to me that is a bunch of verbiage that why is it there. Meridian City Cauncil J u ly ~ 0, 199 Page 89 Bentley: To take up space an the paper. Carrie: if we are going to have that combination back and fiorth why should it be there anyway. Marrow: I think maybe the intent of that of that particular sentence structure is to make sure that the commissioner understands that it is his responsibility to communicate that budget and audit function to the other Councilmen the other commissioners. If there are questions from them concerning a departments or his departments performance. Corrie: Oh, okay that was changed I see, (inaudible). Marrow: Authority afi Caunci 1. Corrie: And you have department head commissioner do you want to put in the ma ar as Y well or leave that alone? Marrow: I think fior purposes of audit and budgeting let's leave it alone but let's real) y emphasize ~t in the personnel manual evaluation procedure. Rountree: And f guess I would ask the City Clerk to kind of put that in a suspense thin g with the stuff that you and I are working on. (Discussion Inaudible) Marrow I have one question, do you want to adopt this tonight with #hase minor than es g ar do you want him to make the m~nar changes and we adopt it Tuesday? Rountree: llvell I guess if you want to make a motion. Carrie: The only thing we changed was the t in vote and crossed out the de artment and p put the City Cauncil. Marrow: Alright, so let me make a motion that we, what ordinance would this be'~ Berg: 735. Morrow: I move that we adopt Ordinance #l35 as corrected with the suspension of rules. Rountree: Second I~ Mer~dlan Clty C4unCll July 1 D,199D Page 90 Corrie: Da I have to read this? Crookston: Yes Carrie: AN ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF MERIDIAN AMENDING TITLE 1 CHAPTER 7, THE COUNCIL, THE REVISED AND COMPILED ORDINANCE OF THE CITY OF MERIDIAN wITH THE ADDITIONAL NEw SECTION TO BE KNOwN AS SECTION ~ WADI TO SET FORTH AND ESTABLISH A COMMISSIONER FOR EACH OF THE FOLLt~wING CITY DEPARTMENTS; POLICE, FIRE, PARKS, PUBLIC WORKS AND ANY OTHER DEEMED NECESSARY BY THE CITY COUNCIL; ESTABLISHING DUTIES ESTABLISHING TERMS OF OFFICE FOR EACH COMMISSIONER AND PROVIDING AN EFFECTIVE DATE. Anybody from the audience wish to have the ordinance read in its entirety? Craakstan: Can I make some corrections, strike an the second line, strike the Cit Council Y and the comma second line put an a and the third line between of and new. (Inaudible) Crookston: In the first line, the second line strike out the Gauncil and the comma. In the third line it says Meridian by the adoption of insert anew section to be known as ~ ~~0~ Marrow: And adoption is not spelled edition. (Inaudible) Graakstan: Inaudible}for each of the fallowing city departments End of Ta e office of ~ p} each commissioner and providing an effective date, we had some chap[}My'es in it if we are . r ~./ adopting ~t tonight I wanted to be inconformity with those chap es. g Morrow: So that was the discussion and now we are votin ? g Corrie: who made the motion, Walt and seconded by Mr. Rountree discussion? All those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: 3 Yea, ~ Nea Corrie: Mr. Bentley (inaudible) Bentley: The Parks and Recreation advisory commission, l would like to know the are Y getting people lined up to volunteer help to donate equipment and donate su lies for pp f~ Meridian City Council Duly ~a, ~~~~ Page 91 Tulley Park. They would like to know if we could get a plaque to commemorate the ea le p p that are joining this and mount it aver at the park. They said that is about all the are Y asking out of this and they said they would really appreciate if they could Council's approval like you do on the inaudible}. Marrow: That is all a donation of a plaque, l think that goes without sa in that if Yg somebody donates something to us they get recognized. Bentley: That is goad to know. Also, Claire from APA is requesting a meetin with the Cit g Y Council and Mayor, nary Smith and the primary subject they would like to discuss is what you want APA to da in the next year's work program. I.E. they want to discuss the Ten Mile interchange, moving it up and getting it going. UVhat da we currently thing that we ou ht . g to drop from next year and other items of interest far Meridian. So he would like to have a meeting with us at some time to discuss these issues. Budget review, we are oin to g g da water on Monday at 5:~0. Berg: Do you guys want to know that (inaudible) reserved for 7:30 so you will have to be out of here. Bentley: I have already talked to 11Valt a little about about this I am goin tv be one from g g the 18th to the 27th I think it is. So we will have to jump an a couple of them in the middle ar he said they might da one or two of the small ones when I am gone. Morrow 1Ne can do, point of clarification, we can do things like Janice's office, Ill~ill's office P & Z, that kind of stuff while Glenn is gone. The big ticket ones fire and alice we will do p with all five of us in the case of police and al! eight of us in the case of the fire. Corrie: And other department heads come into these meetings and sit there and listen if they want. Bentley: Vlre da have the fire prepared we are waiting for some input back from the Rural Commissioners on it though. Carrie: Mr. Rountree? Rountree: I don't have anything. Bentley: If I can back track, if we can try by Tuesday to have some idea on when we might want to get together with Claire. Berg: Are you going to have a workshop or is it going to be workshop or (inaudible) Meridian City Council July ~ 5, ~ 995 Page 92 Marrow: Why don't we have him to the strategic planning meetin an the 3rd? g Bentley: I want be here. Currie: Cr we can have it in August. (Inaudible) Carrie: You folks asked that I nominate four people far the sick leave aol I have done p that I am sorry I didn't get everybody copies. Marrow: ! thought we approved that in April. Currie: I thought we did too but there was nothing an record. There was Son a Da y y, Motor Vehicle Division, Brian Zimmermann, Fire Department, Harold Hudson Jr Chi Wa p, ter Department, Mike Loch, Police Department. Then there are two alternates Ceiste fro the m Sewer Department and Bruce Freckfeton from Public works as alternates. If ou a ro y pp ve that then we wail get them tomorrow and get them on line and et a~n . g 9 9 Marrow: So moved Rountree: Second Currie: Any further discussion? All those in favor? ~ osed~ pp M~3TIQN CARRIED: Ail Yea Carrie: I have one other thing, the senior ci#izens van re istratian the have alw g y ays had exempt plates from the City, City has approved the exempt plate and the Cit has aid the Y p $~3 and gave them an exempt plate. The State De artment of Trans ortatia p p n said you can t do that unless the City writes a letter and says that you a rove of the exem t late pp p p and pay the $13. So I need to find out of if the Council objects to me writin a letter and 9 to Patty saying the City has no ab~ectians to using an exem t sticker. I have talked to p Wayne the insurance and liability and all of that is taken care of with them. The ave me . ,. Yg all the information here about their insurance. The only thin is that Idaho Trans ortation g P didn t have a letter previously from Kingsford, so they need that. Crookston: Also, the $~ 3 is a donation. Marrow: So moved Meridian City Council July ~ o, ~ ~~~ Page 93 Bentley: Second Carrie: All those in favor? opposed? M~TlUN CARRIED: All Yea Crookston: The City gets no advantage of it but it is a donation. Garrie: That is all I have, entertain a motion to adjourn. Morrow: So moved Rountree: Second Gorrie: All those in favor? opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea MEETING ADJOURNED AT 1:22 A.M. (TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) APPROVED: BERT D. CORRIE, MAYOR ATTEST; ILLIAM ~. BERG, JR., GI G RK MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL AGENDA WEDNESDAY, JULY 10, 1996 - 7:30 P.M. CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS MINUTES OF PREVIOUS MEETING HELD JUNE 18, :1996: 1. TABLED JUNE 4, 1996: FINAL PLAT: FIELDSTONE MEADOWS NO. 3 SUBDIVISION BY GARY VOIGT: ~~6~e ~,~.ti,t~? ~ sf 6 ~ h~-Q.e-h~. 2. TABLED JUNE 4, 1996: LATE ~MERS AGREEMENT FOR GEMTQNE CENTER N0...2: C/~~~ ~.~{~v,~~ ~ `tC~ati~c C'fj~,•,~,,~w~.S ~.. a/,~~vrov~t~_ ~c ar~ frz ft~ ~;~ay~- 3. TABLED JUN~'18, 1996: PRELIMINARY PLAT FOR THE LAKE AT CHERRY LANE N0.,8' BY STEINER DEVELOPMENT: 6 ~.p~afo%ed~ 4. TABLED JUNE 18, 1996: FINAL PLAT: PACKARD SUBDIVISION NO. 1 BY PNE/EDMONDS CONSTRUCTION: a~~ra~.~ u~~~-!z cdn~~-,ins 5. PUBLIC HEARING CONTINUED FROM JUNE 18, 1996: REQUEST FOR A PRELIMINARY PLAT FOR HONOR PARK NO. 3 SUBDIVISION BY WILLIAM HON: a-~p~r~~~ ~,v~~-~ ~~~i, ~-,Z. f 6. REQUEST FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A SENIOR CITIZEN ~ BOARDING, LODGING COMPLEX BY WAYNE & KAREN FORREY CONTINUED FROM 'JUNE 18, 1996: ~~j~~~ve ,G/~' ~ ~~G (,~Q/ziP~I ~p-n~i~b~z~GC~ pef ~vc~t 7. AMENDED FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR ASHFORD GREENS SUBDIVISION NO.2 BY ~IGHTON CORPORATION: G~ ~orove ~ynp~decC, ~l ~' , ~r~ ~c p~r~-ems ~'~di~itm~ Gr~e,Q-~-"~.~~- 8. TABLED JUNE 18, 1996: ORDINANCE #731 - OLSON BUSH SUBDIVISION NO.2 ANNEXATION: ~P,~rdv~ g """r""'~ ORDINANCE #~88¢ CAN SYSTEM: rte- i'ov-.~ 10. ORDINANCE #733 -PARKS 8~ RECREATION COMMISSION: ~~CJ~U~'ov2~ 11. FINAL PLAT: DOVE MEADOWS SUBDNISiON NO.2 BY DAVE LEADER: ~~oprov.~ wi~'i~ co~.~C;`~i ~.s 12. FINAL PLAT: KENTUCKY RIDGE ESTATES BY SHEKINAH INDUSTRIES: ~p~i~vv~ 13. TRANSFER OF BEER AND WINE LICENSE FROM EL ZOCALO TO RONDA GiLDEROY: ~p~-~~,~.~. 14. TEC-PAC SITE PLAN REVIEW: a~pra/~ ~+ce ~A, s 15. DISCUSSION OF ORDINANCE 1-707: ESTABLISHING COMMISSIONERS FOR CITY DEPARTMENTS: l1~dwsn~ ~' 735 uPPrOVe 16. WATER/SEWER/TRASH DELINQUENCIES: ~+-~yvrove. 17. APPROVE BILLS: ~~~rave 18. DEPARTMENT REPORTS: A. GARY SMITH, CITY ENGINEER: 1. GOLF COURSE BID QPENING 2. ENGINEERING AGREEMENT FOR FIVE MILE CREEK ASSESSMENT ~~iL2 UL~l.~~c~nct- (-?behn er aPprovecZ~ ~,i i r yr in~tcwiai~ PUB'L.C MEETING SIGN-IJf SHEET NAME PHONE NUMBER ~,ii r yr m~tcu~ivi~ PUB~,~C MEETING SIGN-Ul SHEET !NAME PHONE NUMBER 8'87 ~/ ?~