HomeMy WebLinkAbout1997 03-18MERIDIAN CITY CGUNCIL
AGENDA
TUESDAY, MARCH ~ 8, ~ 99~' - ~:3~ P.M.
CITY CGUNCIL CHAMBERS
MINUTES OF PREVIOUS MEETING HELD MARCH 4, 1997:
(APPROVED)
1. TABLED MARCH 4, 1997: ORDINANCE #753 -LID 97-1: (APPROVED)
2. PUBLIC HEARING CONTINUED FROM MARCH 4, 1997: REQUEST FOR
ANNEXATION/ZONING TO 1-L BY MICHAEL AND MICHELLE MURASKO:
(CITY ATTORNEY TO PREPARE FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS
OF LAWj
3. PUBLIC HEARING CONTINUED FROM MARCH 4, 1997: REQUEST FOR
ANNEXATION/ZONING TO I-L BY PROPERTIES WEST INC.: (CITY
ATTORNEY TO PREPARE FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF
~aw~
4. PUBLIC HEARING CONTINUED FROM MARCH 4, 1997: REQUEST FOR A
PRELIMINARY PLAT FOR MEDIMONT SUBDIVISION BY PROPERTIES WEST
INC.: (PUBLIC HEARING CONTINUED TO APRIL 1, 1997)
5. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A VARIANCE TO REDUCE THE SET
BACK BY MERIDIAN LDS CHURCH: (CITY ATTORNEY TO PREPARE
FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAWj
6. REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR AFULL- `SERVICE
SALON WITH TWO STYLING STATIONS, NAIL TECHNICIAN AND MASSAGE
THERAPY ROOM BY KELLI STEWART: (APPROVED FINDINGS; APPROVED
DECISION)
7. REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A PROFESSIONAL
OFFICE BUILDING BY JAMES KELLER AND REID OLSEN: (APPROVED
FINDINGS; APPROVED DECISION)
8. DOLORES LISBY: DISCUSSION OF PAVING REQUIREMENTS FOR 706 E.
FIRST STREET: (APPROVE TWO YEAR EXTENSION AND REQUIRE LETTER
OF CREDiT)
9. MERIDIAN LICENSING SERVICES AGREEMENT: (APPROVED WITH CITY
ATTORNEY'S APPROVAL)
10. NAME CHANGE OF A PORTION OF LOCUST GROVE ROAD: (APPROVED)
11. DEPARTMENT REPGRTS:
A. SHARI STILE, PLANNING & ZONING ADMINISTRATOR:
1. DISCUSSION OF RESIDENTIAL CARE FACILITIES:
B. GARY SMITH, CITY ENGINEER:
1. TULLY PARK FILL DIRT: (APPROVED)
2. PART TIME EMPLOYEES AND BENEFITS:
C. WALT MORROW, COUNCILMAN:
1. ASHFORD GREENS LIFT STATION AND BUILDING PERMIT ISSUE:
(ALLOW BUILDING PERMITS BUT NO OCCUPANCIES -REVISIT
ISSUE IN 90 DAYS)
2. RELOCATING PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT TO LLOYD GERBER
BUILDING: (APPROVED FOR 1 YEAR LEASE AT $9 PER SQUARE
FOOT AND OPTION TO RENEW FOR 1 YEAR)
D. POLICE CHIEF GORDON:
1. COMMUNICATION CENTER:
2. SCHOOL RESOURCE OFFICER AGREEMENT: (APPROVED)
E. CHARLIE ROUNTREE, COUNCILMAN:
1. PATHWAY EASEMENTS NEEDED BY END OF MAY -FIVE MILE
BRIDGE CROSSING:
F. RON TOLSMA, COUNCILMAN:
1. RURAL FIRE COMMISSION STUDY ON BUDGET PERCENTAGES:
G. MAYOR ROBERT CORRIE:
1. RAILWAY STUDY(SHARI STILES -TEAM A; GLENN BENTLEY -
TEAM F)
2. STATE FIRE SCHOOL GOLF TOURNAMENT: (APPROVE $150
FOR ONE GOLF HOLE)
12. EXECUTIVE SESSION:
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MARCH 18 1997
The regular meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order by Mayor Robert
D. Corrie at ?':~a P.M.:
MEMBERS PRESENT: VIlalt Morrow, Gienn Bentley, Charlie Rountree, Ron Tafsma:
GTHERS PRESENT: UViII Berg, Wayne Crookston, Shari Stiles, Gary Smith, I~Ceith
Loveless, Gary Lee, Jim Witherelf, Ernestine Robinson, Morgan Plant, Robert Smith,
Steve Simmons, Kepi Stewart, Ran Thurber, Dolores Lisby, Chief Gordon, Ron
McKague, Janice Van Hauten:
MINUTES OF PREVIOUS MEETING HELD MARCH 4, 1997:
Corrie: Any corrections or alterations to those minutes? I will entertain a motion far
acceptance.
Rountree: Second
Tofsma: Second
Carrie: Motion made by Mr. Rountree, second ~y Mr. Tolsma that we accept the
minutes of March 4, 1991, all those in favor? Gppased?
MGTIGN CARRIED: All Yea
ITEM #1: TABLED MARCH 4, 1991: GRDINANCE #153 -LID 97-1:
Corrie: AN ORDINANCE FOR THE CITY OF MERIDIAN, ADA COUNTY, IDAHO,
READOPTING THE FINDINGS FOR THE CREATION OF A LOCAL IMPROVEMENT
DISTRICT CREATING LOCAL IMPROVEMENT DISTRICT 97-1 PROVIDING FOR
AND SETTING FORTH THE IMPROVEMENTS TO BE MADE; SETTING FORTH THE
BOUNDARIES OF THE LOCAL IMPROVEMENT DISTRICT; SETTING THAT THE
ESTABLISHED TOTAL COST OF THE IMPROVEMENTS IS $48,000 OF WHICH IS
AMOUNT IS TO BE FUNDED BY ASSESSMENTS ON PROPERTY WITHIN THE
BOUNDARIES OF THE LOCAL IMPROVEMENT DISTRICT. THAT THE $48,000
SHALL BE SET BY THE FOOT METHOD SHALL BE ASSESSED ON ALL PROPERTY
INCLUDED WITHIN THE LOCAL IMPROVEMENT DISTRICT HAVING FRONTAGE
ON CHERRY LANE ROAD, AUTHORIZING NEGOTIATIONS FOR THE
APPOINTMENT OF AN ENGINEER AND AUTHORIZE FOR THE PREPARATION OF
PLANS AND SPECIFICATIONS; AUTHORIZING UPON THE COMPLETION OF THE
PLANS AND SPECIFICATIONS THE ADVERTISEMENT AND NOTICE OF
REQUESTS FOR THE BIDS FOR THE CONSTRUCTION, PROVIDING FOR
PUBLICATION. OF THIS ORDINANCE AND PROVIDING PURSUANT TO 50-17-27
IDAHO CODE TO CONTEST THE LEGALITY OF THIS ORDINANCE AND THE
Meridian City Council
March 18,1991
Page 2
PROCEEDINGS AND THE AUTHORITY HELD GRANTED UNDER THIS ORDINANCE
WHICH PER IN SHALL EMPIRE 39 DAYS AFTER PUBLICATION OF THIS
ORDINANCE AND PROVIDING FOR AN EFFECTIVE DATE. Is there anyone from the
audience that would like to have Ordinance #753 read in its entirety? Just for the
audience this is far a section offence on Cherry Lane and Cherry Lane Village facing
Cherry Lane.
Crookston: Mr. Mayor: I might just comment we held it back at previous meetings and I
made some changes that relate to the cedar being no hale cedar. That is in Section 4,
paragraph 8, and I put that in the heading also. IIVe had a question as to whether ar not
it was $48,0000 or X49,000. In the resolution it is $48,000 the resolution was passed to
have the appropriate hearing far the creation of the Local Improvement District. That is
basically in section 4.
Carrie: Council, any further questions? Hearing Wane I will entertain a motion for
Ordinance #753.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor, 1 would move that we approve Ordinance #753 with suspension
of the rules.
Bentley: Second
Corrie; Motion is made by Mr. Raun#ree, second by Mr. Bentley that we adopt
Ordinance #753 with suspension of rules, any further discussion? Roll call vote
ROLL CALL VOTE: Marrow -Yea, Bentley -Yea, Rountree -Yea, Tolsma -Yea
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
ITEM #2: PUBLIC HEARING CONTINUED FROM MARCH 4, 1997: REQUEST FOR
ANNEXATION/ZONING TO I-L BY MICHAEL AND MICHELLE MURASKO:
Corrie: I will open the public hearing at this time and invite a representative of them to
came up.
Keith Loveless, 3330 Grace Street, Boise, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Loveless: UVe thank you for the time extension. V1le have conferred with our client,
explained the items in there that he didn't understand,lJlJe concur with the findings and
have na problems at this time with the conditions of annexation. Any questians'~
Marrow: Mr. Loveless, if I have understood this correctly there is na deeded access to
this property it is an easement access is that correct
Meridian Cit Council ~.
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March ~ S, 1991
Page 3
Loveless: That is correct but it is recorded, the access was cut off from Ea le Road b
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the widening by ITD. ITD then acquired an easement for their use to access this
property in lieu of being able to come directly onto Eagle Road. There is another ~0
foot easement that is shared by several properties to the west that came up to Franklin
Road on the west end of this property. That is also a recorded easement.
Marrow: Thank you, I have no further questions.
Rountree: Mr. Loveless, you indicated that you had no and your concerns had not
concerns for the findings of fact. I just want to make it clear that includes the comments
received from the Planning and Zoning Administrator as well. ,
Loveless: vile understand.
Rountree: I have nothing else,
Corrie: Anyone else from the audience that would like ~ to enter testimon at this time's
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Seeing none, Council, questions of staff?
Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I have questions of Gary Smith or Shari, one of the two. M
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question is with respect to recorded easement access as opposed to deeded and we
have deeded we have issues with curb, gutter and paving and drains a and ail of those
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other kinds of things that are fairly automatic or spelled out. !f it is a recorded easement
such as the. one that is on fTD's right of way, runs parallel to Eagle Road and then the
one that accesses Franklin Road what are the specifications for pavin and curb and
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gutter and those kinds of things or are there any?
Smith: Mr. Mayor and Council members, I don't think there are an s ecifications tha#
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are tied to an easement, If it is a private road I don't know that there are an
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specifications far construction of a road on a private in a private situation. Unless we
establish some standards through the City.
Morrow. So the easement in a sense is a private access and there are no specific
standards for that.
Smith: That is my understanding.
Crookston: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Morrow, it depends on what the easement sa s if
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the easement says that it is granted to Ada County Highway District or it is ranted to
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the Idaho Department of Transportation for use as a roadwa and all necessa
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improvements for a roadway then what you are talking about would be ranted to the
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County excuse to me ACRD or to the Idaho Department of Trans ortation. If that is not
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included in the easement and is not in the County then the inaudible State could
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come back and say we need same language that said we can do these im rovements.
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Meridian Cit Council
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March ~ 8, ~ 99l
Page ~
Loveless: May I make a comment Mr. Morrow, I would liken these easements similar to
the Fred Meyer complex where they have said pads within the compound and there are
no developed roads inside but they use the parking lot for ingress and egress from the
perimeter roads. They all have~frantage an a public right of way as I remember the plat
but the access to them is through the Fred Meyer parking lot, these businesses within
the compound. So, in this case this easement would be the central focus point as part of
the development of those properties that hold the access easement inaudible} in which
the access easement is over. I would assume at the time since this was being put
under conditional use permit for what basically was a, development agreement
~inaudibie} the CU would then put the conditions on what would have to happen within
that easement far ingress and egress as I would understand the zoning then in
planning. The Franklin one here inaudible} roadway purposes far public access and
commercial purposes. Illlith all rights inaudible} install and maintain and connect such
utilities not including, it goes on to list the utilities aver and under the property. So I
would assume that the Council or the Planning and Zoning Commission would have the
right to set the standards far that ingress and egress at such time as the development
plans are put forth far the property is the way I would interpret that inaudible}.
Morrow: Fallow up question for Shari and Gary, this is a little aver a five acre parcel.
Gbviously it is a candidate or inaudible} as it goes through the process then you are
prepared to make sure by development agreement that the easements and the access
paints are in fact maintained in a proper fashion and so on and so forth. The point that l
am getting at here is that I can see users dawn~the road, 5 to ~ 0 years all of a sudden
not being able to access the property because there is no provision for maintaining of
easement. I guess that is my concern.
Stiles; Councilman Morrow, Mayor and Council this piece will be severely limited as to
what can ga in there because of this access. It is only 30 feet unless they gat same
shared access with a piece of property east or west of it there is not really going to be
any commercial access to it. The only thing I can think of right now because of the
leveling that has gone on in the County as it was part of the county and whatever is
built on it now, I don't know whether any building permit or anything was received for
that building. But whoever develops i# is going to have to have a pretty specific use that
knows they don't need a lot of vehicular access to that piece because it is not going to
work with a 30 feet access.
Morrow: Thank you
Smith: Mr. Mayor and Council members, I need same direction on item ~Z on page ~ 8
of the findings. It states that the applicant be required to connect the property to
Meridian city and water and sewer and resolve how the water and sewer mains will
serve the property, Right now sewer is not available, I don't know when it will be. From
looking at the property without doing any elevation work an it, it appears to me that the
Meridian City Council
March ~ 8,1991
Page 5
only way it can sewer out is through the northwest side of this property into Lanark
Street. The property owner Ted Sigmont indicated when he testified that the access
easement to this property off of Lanark that parallels Eagle Road is only ingress a ress
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easement, it is not a utility easement, It appears dust from the eye that it would be
difficult to get to a sewer line in Eagle Road because of the difference in elevation of
Eagle Road and this property and the depth that the. sewer would be when it crosses
Eagle Road at Lanark. But this statement #22 shows up on findings an most every
annexation. I guess I would like same direction as to what it means specifically what it
means. Does this mean that the applicant, am l reading this to say that the applicant is
required to connect this property now ar some time in the fufure or what does it mean's
Crookston: I assume you are talking to the person that writes these findings. That is
correct Gary the intent of this is that the property be connected to sewer and water
because in the findings of fact it states that sewer and water is available which would
mean it would have to be within 3g~ feet of the property and they would have to
connect to it.
Smith: Vvell water is within 3BB feet, sewer is not.
Crookston: They would have to connect to water righ# now or when they had any use
an the property.
Smith:lllleli when they have a use they wii! have to connect to the sewer unless Central
District Health Department gives them approval for an on site disposal system. On
single family units it is done sometimes but on a commercial venture they won't.
Crookston: To my understanding that is very correct.
Smith: So does this statement need to be amended in some fashion then? Or does it
have to do when development takes place?
Crookston: IlVell I don't believe we require connection to sewer or water unless there is
development, unless there is a use that would use that sewer ar water, do we Gary?
Smith: No, but it dust says the applicant's and that is referring to Muraska as I
understand it. if they sell the property to someone else then far development.
Crookston: Section 24 says these conditions shall run with the land and bind the
applicant's and their successors, interests, assigns, heirs, executors or personal
representatives. Sa it is binding upon any person that purchases the praperky.
Marrow: Mr. Mayor, I have a fallow up question, an that same issue item #~8 says
these conditions ~inaudibie} if already annexed shall be de-annexed. The cancers that I
have here with respect to the City's is that i~ we annex this property knowing that sewer
Meridian it Council ~
cy
March 18, ~99~
Page 6
is not readily available inaudible} that is currently holding up that entire line, m
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cancers is let s far discussion say that we don t have that section of IEne in and the
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have a ~inaudibie} build or develop and came to the City and say we want the sewer.
What is the City's position and what exposure do we have in that particular case
because A there is nvt sewer available. If there is not sewer available does that mean
that it deannexes or does that mean that inaudible} to force sewer trunk lines to be ut
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in and services extended. And then I guess the question is if Mr. Sigmant is not willin
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to sewer through his easement where daes the property owner came to the Cit and t
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to farce that action? That is what I am concerned about the long term issue here. l am
not concerned about today, I am cancerned about when this property develops under
these conditions us knowing that it can be sewered at the present time.
Corrie: It sounds like a legal question Mr. Counselor.
Crookston: If an owner did not do anything with this property in re ards to
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development of sewer or water but the property needed to be passed throu h with
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sewer and water the C,ty may have to condemn the right of way to place that sewer and
water. If that is the only route by which it can go then if that. let's say that the city has
found a route to go around the property and then two years later that property owner
that had refused to put in sewer and water he can get it but he may not get the ca acit
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that he might need. He may get a service line but he is not going to get a trunk line.
That is a question that would have to be answered by this Council and Mayor. .
Loveless; I .just wanted to say that we are aware that the Sewer is not there and that
there are problems with the property owner to get the trunk. The only thing I wanted to
address was that there was a question about haw we get farm this property to the trunk
~inaudibie} easement which is going to be surface only. The solution to that is one that
I have used before since Eagle Road is a state right of way far $99 permit fee !can run
a sewer line within their right of way. I can get permission for a private sewer line
within a public right of way if it comes to that, I researched that one out several times.
We are not land locked in that manner in that the State Highway Department will issue
us a private permit to bring utilities up to their right of way to our propert even if the
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are not owned by the City.
Carrie: does that give you any answers to your question Mr. Marrow or are ou still
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confused?
Marrow: Well I wi I I always be confused.
Smith: Mr. Mayor and Council members, what Keith is saying an the sewer line is
correct, you can get a permit in the right of way. What 1 am concerned about is the
elevation difference in what the sewer line would be in either Lanark or Eagle Road and
bringing the sewer to this property, I am concerned that you can't get there by gravity.
Meridian Cit Cou
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March ~ 8, ~ 99l
Page 7
Loveless;111le11, we are higher than Lanark.
Smith: Not if you sit in your car at the intersection of Lanark and Ea le and look across
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there, ft dawn t look like it. There is quite a drop there off of Eagle Road. But that
would need to be determined by field elevations.
Loveless: My estimation of looking at it, unless you are running a 3 foot sewer in
Lanark it is going to be a down hill run.
Smith: In Eagle Road (inaudible)
Loveless: (Inaudible) I think what is deceiving is the way they have cut the barrow ditch
not (inaudible) and there may be some design modifications to the road (inaudible). I
have looked at it a couple of times as I have been up and down. I have done projects
on either side of the railroad tracks there and up above (inaudible) I don't know what
the (inaudible). I really don't believe it is a problem. Worst case scenario wouldn't be
the first house on the block (inaudible) wouldn't be a multi-user (inaudible) I think the
property is going to be a single user.
Smith: Well around here 1 don't know too many effector um s in Meridian we have
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some lift stations.
Loveless: I'll tell you it wouldn't be~ the first one I have ever done.
Smith: But not in that neighborhood.
Loveless: if that becomes the only solution, there are solutions to the rablem.
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Smith: Mr. Mayor, getting back to Councilman Marrov~s uestion, I don't think I
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understood Vvayne s response as far as is the City responsible to extend a sewer line if
this applicant comes in with a request to develop that property and sewer is not
oval labie.
Crookston: Not the owner of this property but the owner of an ad'acent ro ert that
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needs to ga through the Mursako property to get service. The only wa the Cit can ut
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lines through the property that did not allow us to come through is to condemn it.
Smith; !understand .that, but the serv,~ce for this property would not be thou h another
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piece of property, it would be to a sewer line in a public right of way, tha# is to be built
by others. So if we annex, if the City of Meridian annexes this propert does it create
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any liabif~ty for us to build a sewer to it?
Crookston: Not unless there is some restriction about going throu h another ro ert
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owners land for which we might have to condemn that property to et access to run
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Me ~
rid~an City Counc:l
March ~ 8, ~ 99l
Page 8
sewer and water to the Mursako property. The City may be out some cost to do that,
that is correct. I think the cast is something that would have to come up in the
inaudible} would be the cost issue would be for that person, the developer of that
property. If we have condemn to get to it that is a cast of constructing a line to provide
service, I don't think that is too much different than when any property owner refuses to
allow the City to go through their property.
Smith: I understand that process 1lVayne, but what I am concerned about if this
applicant or future owners of this property decide they want to build and you are
probably answering the question and I am not grasping it, but can they require the City
to extend the sewer line from where it exists in Gemtone Park right now to that property
to serve this piece'?
Crookston: I believe if they are annexed yes they could.
Smith: Thank you
Loveless: You are already committed to that sewer line because you have annexed
property now that doesn't have sewer. If those people wanted to build or rebuild
something different you are under the same scenario they are not going to be able to
have the septic. What I see here happening is if you continue to annex in this area
which seems to be the goal of the city's master Ian at some time ar the other the Cit
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may or may not have to exercise their imminent domain and force that easement for
that sewer main to service that area. I mean if the City truly wants to include this area
in their within the City which it appears because you already have annexed pro e
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adjacent to this property. Sometime a line is ga~ing to have to probably be drawn in the
sand and somebody is going to push and shave until that sewer line gets through there
and whether the private parties band together and take that party to court or the Cit
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uses their powers to bring that easement to be. It will happen probably, but right now
because there is no push far mayor development on what the City has already annexed
or something new it is lying dormant because nobody is pushing the issue. But that
issue can be pushed at any time even under the situation that you have out there now.
Crookston: Mr. Mayor, if-the property has been annexed within I would sa the cast 5 to
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6 years the findings have the same type of language in them that say the have to
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connect to the sewer and wa#er and resolve how the water and sewer mains will serve
this property. It is the same kind of thing that we have done for all annexations that we
have done in the recent past. Sa that.: the property if it is has been annexed the have
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to put in the sewer and water to service their property, I don't think that ~inaudibie have
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to provide service or pay for that service when we have it has -part of our findings of fact
and conclusions of law for that annexation inaudible} you have to do it the ro ert
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owner. The only point that i am raising is if some property has not been annexed then
we may have some problems.
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Meridian Gity Council
March ~ 8, ~ 997
Page 9
Loveless: I don't know where that property is in ar out. VVe understand, our
understanding is that if we develop we have to have those services connected to the
parcel otherwise we can't do anything with the property except what it is doing sittin
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there now. Vllithout the annexation we really don't have the option then for the sewer
because we don't have any, there is no, we are not part of the Gity we are outside the
Gity asking far city services. In this particular case if.a buyer were to come along and
want to develop and we have a little more reason to, we have the reasons we want tv
develop. We have the ability to ~inaudible~ thane are the conditions as we understand
them as written.lNe understand that they are not at our front door today and there is no
commitment by the city verbally or written farm as to when that may occur and we
understand that point. .
Crookston: Did you understand what I said Gary?
Smith: Yes, I know that the conditions of annexatian for the past several years have
included this statement. It is also included the #~6 statement that if these conditions of
approval are not met that the property is subject to deannexation. I think we have of
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property out there right nowthat is subject tv de-annexation because the conditions are
not being met and I don't know when they are going to be met, Unless the City forces a
sewer line as Mr. Loveless has said, if the City farces a sewer line, declares imminent
domain on the easements and pushes the thing through then the sewer is there. But
right now it is not there and I don't know when it is going to be there and the conditions
of the annexation are not being met. ~ don't know if there is an articular time line an
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those but things aren't happening. I just don't want to see the City get into a pasition
where we end up building a sewer line because somebody forces the issue and there is
nothing in the findings of fact that declares the City is not going to build a sewer line or
not going to be responsible to build a sewer line unless there is some secanda
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agreement perhaps.
Crookston; I would have to say that I believe that under all of our annexation
ordinances and all of the findings of fac# and conclusions of law that we have re ared
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far those annexations had this language in it and I believe that in essence what we
have is an agreement between the City and any person that applied far annexation that
they will da those things. !have not had a case like that and I have not read a case like
that but I think that is a fairly good pasition far the City to take. Had you not been willin
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to do this the City would not have been willing to annex you.
Loveless: I think that statement gives the party who is being annexed ar re nests
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annexatian an out that such that sewer and water cannot be brought to the pro ert it
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gives them a reason to ask to be de-annexed because we can't meet the conditions.
And that is the primary conditions that need to be met are sewer and water. If you didn't
have that in there it would be tougher far us to be de-annexed but this gives the Git an
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immediate reason to de-annex us because we cannot comply with the conditians.
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Meridian City Council'.
March 18, 1991
Page 1g
Crookston: That is correct, I will say though because the property is not annexed does
not mean that the City cannot condemn that property.
Loveless: I understand that, this property is not in the line of any known sewer mains.
What I am saying is that I think that statement can work two ways. If the City decides in
the future that there is no way that they are going to be able to ever service this area
they can deannex it and no longer have to provide the services that they are providin
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at this time tv that area, mainly would be police protection basically right now because
there are no other services available. I think we are totally cognizant of the fact that
sewer is not available and it is not up to the City tv bring it to our~frant door. In gettin
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it to our front door and the negotiations the City may become party to it only because of
the powers they have to extend their line.
Carrie: I guess if I might interject I think that is your question, to became a party to it, da
we have to dv it, would be reliable to put that sewer line in. What I am hearing from you
is we don't, is that correct we are not liable for it?
Crookston: I don't believe that we have to run it to their property as if we have to a
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through a parcel of property to get the other side of the lake then we may have to. But if
we have another route to get there we da not have to cross that property, I mean the
property that is giving us a problem and going through their property.
Corrie: Mr. Rountree?
Rountree: I don't know how many times we have to circle the wagons on this but it
seems to me a couple wards in paragraph 2~ would take care of the problem that Gary
has identified. I would suggest change the wording of that that. the applicant will be
required at development to connect the property to Meridian Water and sewer and be
responsible for all cast to resolve haw the water and sewer mains will serve the
property. Does that clarify the intent of that paragraph Gary?
Smith: I will leave it up to Mr. Crookston
Crookston: I think that I would agree that it does but I would like to read it and read the
minutes and see what that says. But I believe that you are very much correct.
Loveless We have no problem with that change Mr, Rountree, Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Council can certain) ut that in there if the so desire. An bod
Y p y y y else from the
public at this time? Hearing Wane I will close the public hearing, Council discussions
Morrow: Mr. Mayor I think that !would like, the findings of fact and conclusions as
written I can't support for the reasons that it is not covering the issues that we talked
about. Very candidly one of the things that I don't want to see us as a Council do or
Meridian Cit Council ~.
Y
March ~ 8, ~ 997
Page ~ ~
~.
t
future councils is to put the City in the point of a gray area. At a aint of annexation I
. p
think we can def[ne within the f~nd~ngs of fact and conclusions the issues that we talked
about the simply changes in verbiage that Councilman Rountree has talked about with
a little bit of enhancement can cover those issues with respect to sewer and water so
that anybody reading these documents whether it would be future City/ councils future
1 r
City staff, future buyers are totally aware of what this Council and this develo ment
p
team intended to happen. !want to see that language cleaned up and ut to ether in a
p g
fashion so that ~t is clear rn everybody s mind and address the issue of water sewer
utilities, the easement accesses and the maintenance of those and so on }
and so forth.
So my preference would be that we request new findings to, be rewritten so that tho
se
things are inc[usEVe. If the Council's desire is to go forward with these findin s of fact
g
and conclusions as written then I will vote in opposition to that. That ism discussion,
Y
Cowie: Further discussion Mr. Rountree?
Rountree: I think that is reasonable, there are several items in here that are kind of
gray particularly the access. I would concur that we ought to have them re-written to
reflect that and clear up those issues.
Tolsma: Mayor, ! concur in that also.
Carrie; I will entertain a motion to that effect.
Morrow: That being the case Mr. Mayor l would move that we instruct the Cit Attorne
Y Y
to prepare new findings of fact and conclusions for the annexation and Bonin to I~L as
g
requested by Michael and M[chelle Murasko.
Tolsma: Second
Carrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Tolsma to instruct the Cit Attorne
Y Y
to draw up newf[ndings of fact and conclusions of lawforthe annexatian and zonin to
g
I-L by Michael and Michelle Murasko, any further discussion? All those in favar'~
Gpposed? .
MGTI~N CARRIED: All Yea
ITEM #3: PUBLIC HEARING CONTINUED FROM MARCH 4, 1997: REQUEST FOR
ANNEXATION AND ZONING TO I-L ~Y PROPERTIES WEST INC.:
Carrie; At this time I will open the public hearing and invite Mr. Lee,
Gary Lee, 259 S. Beechwood, Boise, was sworn by the Cit Attorne .
Y Y
Meridian City Council
March 18,1991
Page ~~
Lee: At the close of the public hearing two weeks ago on the 4t" of March Council had
requested a couple of things, ane of which they Inaudible} JUB Engineers and that
was to seek an opinion from a soils engineer about the potential ground water
contamination of the existing domestic weifs slang the easterly side of this development
next to the ~ or so residents along that property. Gn the ~ 4t" of this month I faxed a
letter to Wili Berg, I don't know if he had an opportunity to distribute that to the Gauncil.
In that letter, this came from Strata geatechnical engineering and materials testing in
Boise, Mr. Van Gato professional engineer. I would just like to read this paragraph into
the minutes, it is the third paragraph of the first page. Mr. Gato says, "Based on our
review of the hydro-geological conditions in the vicinity of the project site, it is our
opinion that any surface contaminants that may be spilled near the ground surface at
the project site would not likely be transmitted to the lower potable water supply aquifer
that is located at s depth of 10 to 130 feet below the ground surface due to the
presence of impermeable inaudible}, layer of silt and clay, soils that underlay the site.
Additionally, the ground water gradient to the northwest would cause contaminants to
flow away from the residents located east and south of the proposed development." I
think that should address the concerns that you may have had about same of the
potentials of contamination. Also, I had an opporkunity to meet with City staff and
Wayne Crookston to discuss the possibilities of using that development agreement far
this particular project. During that discussion we kind of summarized towards the end
that there are probably 3 yr 4 different options that the city can take at this particular
junction. The first ane obviously is to deny the application in its total farm. Second
would be to annex and zone the property 1-~L without the special conditions! use permit
requirement. And of course the next one would be to annex and zone the property I-L
with the requirement that all of the tats be required to process a conditional use permit.
And the fast one we talked about is something in between the second and third and that
would be to annex the property with this development agreement and put some
language in that development agreement that would require conditional use permit for
those lots that are adjacent to those residential houses. And that give the City same
further latitude in their building permit review process on these applications as they
come in to place some additional requirement depending on the type of use being
proposed. It would be kind of like a design review process and could be handled
internally. I discussed those options with John Barnes the owner of the Properties West
and we think that option would be a workable scenario. If there are any questions
about any of these items 1 would be glad to address those now.
Corrie: Council, any questions of Mr. Lee at this time?
Morrow: I have none at this time Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Anyone else from the public that would like to issue testimony at this time?
Jim Witherell, X15 South Locust Grave Road, Meridian, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Meridian City Council
March 18, 199
Page ~3
Vvithereli: I am amazed that the hydrologist, the soil sample, I have 3g feet of pipe in
my well and I am still 45 feet from the water according to that description. This is
getting far beyond what we lay people understand about the annexation and the
conditions. Let me tell you what our group sort of expected was going to happen, You
have a comprehensive plan. The comprehensive plan says that in a mixed use area
you Gan put light industrial but you would really End of Tape} at least on twv sides. ~f
course the comprehensive plan is attempting to limit City's liability under Idaho, Title
5~, Idaho Cvde which is nuisance which includes water, incursion on water. The
findings of fact came back and did in fact say those things. They recommended it be
seriously held down and that it look like the rest of the neighborhood, the R~ that it
blend in, that is sound like it and smell like it. At the last meeting we thought okay we
are getting someplace nowthis kind of !oaks like what we were hoping it would look like
that was something like very well, scenic Artech. Artech works it is light industry, it
doesn't burn at least not the same as a steel warehouse. It is quiet ,its hours are
limited. vlle figure with transition this could possibly work. Then we threw in the whale
issue of this development agreement and this is kind of over our head. So the best 1
could do is go back an read the development agreement against what the findings of
fact said and see if there are any discrepancies and !prepared these. Inaudible} The
findings of fact said the contractors yards must be 3DD feet from any residents. The
response to that in the developers agreement was the contractors yards will be a
maximum of 4g feet from the residents, it is on lots 3 through 5, Block ~ only. That is
sited from exhibit C, section 1, subjection 3. Let me explain the blocks 8 through ~ Q are
not all the residents in the area, these are only the residents which are protesting the
development, Three hundred feet and 4Q feet don't sound the same to me but I am
sure there is something about yard as opposed to rear yard as opposed to contractors
yard as opposed to side yard because all 4 of those terms show up. Second, findings
of fact said that conditional use every building should be subject to conditional use and
I quote, "it is particularly important because of the adverse affects on the residential
properties." And I point out that there are still l residential properties there. The
developers agreement says no conditional use except on lots 6 through 9, and only if
these include yards at the back or heavy equipment sales or repair, that is you can put
a machine shop back there and leave it behind us if it doesn't have a yard, It will have a
yard because it says all yards will be to the rear of the properties. The findings of fact
#3, all buildings shall go through the design review process far compatibility with the
area. This is a Large area, this is not just our little residences. The developers
agreement says no review, building permits only and the building permits are
appropriate in, "the interest of the health and welfare and or safety of the inhabitants of
the City" subsection 9 emphasis is added because we don't live in the City. Therefore
technically these agreements don't even apply to us. Number 4, require stringent
development guidelines. The developers agreements says no conditional use except
on cats 5 through 10, Block 3, and that is the only restriction is the building height is
limited to 4a feet adjoining the residences, Exhibit C, subsection 8, clause D and note
4D feet is the maximum height of a building allowed under I~L. Five, that the findings of
fact said this should not create noise exceeded by that of the surrounding
Meridian City Council
March ~ 8, ~ 997
Page ~4
neighbarhood. The developers agreement said there is na such restriction except an
lots 6 through 9, Slock 3 adjoining the residences on the tats yards and the Iots yards
are restricted from 8 a.m. to ~9 p.m. That is you can operate everything else ~4 hours a
day including the plant but the yard adjoining those four sites. That is exhibit C,
subsection 12. The findings of fact said it should not create lots exceeding that of the
surrounding residential neighbarhood. VUe don't generate any noise, we don't generate
any lights. UVe are rural but there are not restrictions in the developers agreement.
Except that lights shall be up on pasts in accordance of the standards of a regular
preapproved industrial area such as the Layne Subdivision. [t should not create adorn
exceeding that of the surrounding neighborhood, there are nv restrictions in the
developers agreement. It should not create dust exceeding that of the surrounding
neighborhood. He has promised on those lots ac#ually all lots that there will be an
annual dust abatement of the yards, exhibit C, subsection ~3. Once a year, we are
talking about daily dust from trucks using the yards behind far parking and machine
work. I used to work for Yanke Machine Shop, I worked in the yard I know we created
dust everyday. The findings of fact says the storage or production of hazardous
materials is prohibited near residential, there are na restrictions in the developers
agreement. It says adequate landscaping and buffering east and west boundaries. All
of the developers agreement says is as illustrated on the plat. Now that has never
really been described as to the size nor type of tree. It is not referenced in the
landscaping section which is exhibit C subsection 11 and the landscaping as illustrated
was a chain line fence or at least along those four parties. As we testified last meeting
we believed we had legal cause to ask fora 35 foot setback with full landscaping on a
berm with a ~ foot masonry sound fence. That is an the western side, on the eastern
side as illustrated there is no landscaping of any type and only a 19 foot setback. Now
a letter was read at the last meeting from the people that are on that site saying that
they were quite satisfied with the ten foot setback, the chain link fence and the plastic
slats. I hope that when they were being talked to that they were told that the minimum
in the City ordinance was ~0 feet with landscaping. Number 1 ~ ,the development must
be designed to blend in with surrounding neighbarhood. well, the developers
agreement says that all storage yards will be in the rear of the lots which is of course
next to our housing. Including the adjoining residential. That is exhibit C, section 4,
subsection A. And of course the building height near the residential will be restricted to
4o feet exhibit C, subsection 8, part B. And in non-compliance with the findings of fact
inaudible} total de-annexation as we read it. The non-compliance for the sanctions
under the development agreement will be the withdrawal of an occupancy permit.
Neither the findings of fact because it probably never anticipated putting an industrial,
plain Jane industrial park next to residential regarded the water table. As I said it is nice
to hear from the soils expert that my water table is 40 feet ar l5 fee# down and my pipe
is only 3Q feet long. And the developers agreement doesn't mention it either. So we
would ask frankly that the first option be pursued. Turn this down and maybe we will get
a better deal next time but we certainly are not going to get what blends with a
residential area. This is an industrial park, it is a chain link fence park, there are cranes
parked behind a very minimal barrier, It is noise and it is dust. It would work fine very
Meridian City Council
March ~ S, ~ 991
Page ~5
probably just like his CC&R's worked very probably in the area for which they were
written which is an industrial area which still exists. In making this a new industrial area
you are creating yet a fourkh de facto area in that mixed use area because nothing else
is probably going to want to build next to light industry except light industry. Thank you
Corrie; Thank you Mr. Wetherell, any questions? Anybody else from the public that
would like to give testimony at this time?
Ernestine Robertson, ~ 85 South Locust Grave, Meridian, was sworn by the City
Attorney.
Robertson: After the City Council meeting 2 weeks ago which was March 4, my son
and I were discussing the response of Mr. Lee to Councilman Morrov~s question if
there was an impervious layer of soil an the property to be developed. The reply given
by Mr. Lee was unclear to us, however it is my understanding that soil testing was done
to a depth of 3 in two places. I have lived on our property for 25 plus years, During that
time we have dug post holes and other miscellaneous digging projects discovering
each time that the soil was discontinuous. Since I already had concerns about the
water table, toxic spills and etc. I decided to call the geosciences department at Boise
State University for an opinion. I discussed the issue with Dr. Monty Wilson, a
professor in the geosciences department. I would like to read you Dr. Wilson's letter.
To Ernie Robertson from Monty Wilson, Professor of Geology, Idaho Registered
Professional Geologist #1 ~ . March ~ ~, ~ 991, regarding soils in the area south of
Franklin Road near Meridian. Most of the soil types along the south side of Franklin
Road near Meridian tend to have substantial amounts of hard pan. In some places,
particularly along depressions this hard pan is discontinuous. And even where the
hard pan is continuous there are fractures that penetrate completely through it. Further
more a variety of human activities such as excavation for building foundations, drilling
wells or placement of septic tanks produce other breaks that may go partially or
completely through the hard pan. In same spots the hard pan may well be thick enough
and solid enough so that it will act as a barrier to the downward migration of
contaminated+water arother liquid pollutants. It is also the fact however, that fluids tend
to flow laterally along the top of the hard pan until it reaches a fractured pane, deep
past hole or any or one of the many breaks in the hard pan. Obviously such a
discontinuity in the hard pan provides an avenue through which fluids can migrate
downward and contaminate the underlying aquifer. Thus it is absolutely incorrect to
say that the hard pan will keep the aquifer from becoming contaminated. A particular
useful reference about the sails in the area of concern is the sail survey of Ada County
published in 19SO by the USDA soil conservation service. It is signed by Monty Wilson.
In light of Dr. Wilson's letter I believe we should again address this issue. I feel it is
relevant to the possible contamination of our precious water supply. If necessary I
suggest that a study or survey be done to determine if the ground does in fact have the
possibility of a high rate of absorption from spills due to chemicals and or other toxic
materials or pollutants. Thank you
Meridian City Council
March ~H,19g~1
Page ~B
Corrie: Thank you, anyone else from the public?
Morgan Plant, 3gg South Locust Grave, Meridian was sworn by the City Attorney.
Plant: As an operator of a commercial back hoe in the Meridian area for a number of
years anyone who thinks that the hard pan layer in the Meridian is continuous and is
solid hasn't dug very many holes. In order to determine any kind of a valid basis for
saying that it is solid or not solid you would have to grid that entire area every ten feet
because you can dig, ga drop right off of it off a shelf and you can go dawn another 8 to
1g feet. And obviously the reason we dig through that hard pan soil is to get into septic
systems. Sa no it is not continuous, it is not sealed. It is very impervious, I have 2 ~f
acre alfalfa field across the road from it and have about S different types of soil in that 2
~/~ acres. So I kind of think I know what I am talking about. Councilmen, I would like
you to consider if this were your home that this park is going next to. vl~auld you like to
have your home there whether it be a $~ gD,oo4 or $2gg,Q4g home to allow an industrial
park with noise, pollution, lights, activity 24 hours a day, in your backyard? You don't
design residential subdivisions with this in back of it. There are yards facing yards in
the back. You are asking these people along here to allow an industrial yard backing
up to their domestic back yard. If this were yours would you allow it? The least you
can do is to put in a B to an 8 foot masonry fence to keep the trash, the dust, the noise
out. But if you would allow it in your backyard by your back fence then I think probably
it is okay to put here. But I don't think you would want it there. I surely don't, we get
enough noise right now from the Masonry products place over there, we hear their bull
horns, we see their lights. Gur back yard, our hay field is lit up sa that I don't hardly
have to use a flash light if I want to check the water at night with the lights from the
masonry products place. And that is quite further away then these people are living. of
course if the lights get put up in this park I won't have to use a light at all I can turn my
yard light off. Because with the light from the St. Luke's complex up there and the
Masonry Products on the other side when the police academy is lit up it is pretty well
daylight around there 24 hours a day. Thank you
Robert Smith, 335 South Locust Grove, Meridian, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Smith: I would like to affirm what Mr. Plant said, he looks right across the road and will
Iook right into this, This is in our back yards but it is kind of in his front yard and what
happened to us unbeknownst to anything that we had any say so for, the St. Luke's
complex showed up in our front view with a great big flashing sign from a Jackson
service station that flares in our face just continually. we had no say so whatsoever in
that. vVe can see now what is going to happen tv us right in our backyards so we really
want to address this and get our concerns to you. As Mr. Plant said would you really
want this to happen to you? we have lived there, our home, I am one of the oldest
tenants there I have lived there far 3~ years, a second home to be built there. Again I
worked for Idaho Power for 40 years and I have dug sail probably more than anybody
Meridian City Council
March 18,1991
Page 11
around here ail aver this valley. I have dug a lot of hales in Meridian. Again to attest to
what he said, you can go down one span which is about 300 feet, you have goad
digging all the way and the next hole you can't get it down because of hard pan ar rock.
Ulle all know the guys that have worked in the valley here where the gaol digging is
and where it isn't. Sa, again I can't really say that any of these soils unless you really
do pursue and scrape them dawn know what happens. I know the first year that we
lived in our home we didn't have our yards in or anything but we had excavated down
into the hard pan layer and our backyard within about 3 weeks after the water came in
the ditch and we didn't irrigate water began to flow right over the hard pan layer and
flawed into where we had to dig around our home drainage line tv get rid of this water.
It all came from the west, it didn't come from the east. INe are all downhill running into
easterly direction. I think that is all, thank you.
Corrie: Thank yau Mr. Smith? Anyone else want to enter any testimony? Thank you,
Council, would you like me to close the hearing? I'm sorry, Mr. Lee do you have a
rebuttal?
Lee: Same of the comments that were addressed to the Council, I have been thinking
about as they were speaking to yau. The landscape buffer, first of all in your current
ordinance yau guys are probably as familiar with that as anyone in this roam allows far
a mixture of uses. You allow for industrial in commercial zones next to residential
zones. There are allowances in there far landscape buffers which we have addressed.
The findings of fact as prepared for P & Z have not been approved by yau, the final
decision makers. Vlle would expect that they would be revised in such a manner that
would allow a development agreement to proceed. The soils a couple of comments
about that. Mr. Gala, I did have a chance to talk to him on the phone after he wrote
this report. He did investigate not only his own test pits that they had excavated on the
site, I think mast of those were 10 to 12 feet deep, but also he acquired all of the well
lots far the adjacent wells in the neighborhood. On those well Togs it identifies the soil
types as they are going through the strata. It identifies the links of the casing far each
wet! and in his letter he had addressed that these wells were drilled and cased to
depths that range from 10 to 130 feet. He also goes onto say that the caiichi layer that
Mrs. Robinson spoke about is a shallow layer. It is not continuous and I don't think
anyane has represented that it is. It can be broken and most times it is broken through.
But the water that they are taking into their wells tames from a deeper aquifer. If you
read his letter he states that there are clay layers throughout that strata that attract the
water source. That is of course the key in developing goad domestic wells is to have
those barriers so you do have protected water. The key thing here is the gradient of
water flaw in this valley at those depths is northwest, it is flawing away from thane
domestic wells. Sa contamination from anything on the property west of their homes is
very unlikely to flow easterly. The gradient is northwest in this valley. Same of the
water that does move west, we talked about this at the last councilman is that surface
water taming from the irrigation of #hat pasture that we are proposing to develop and
also coming from that concrete ditch that is leaking irrigation water, The water does ga
Meridian City Council
March ~ 8,1991
Page 18
down that first 2 to 3 feet of tap sail, lands on tap of that colichi layer and it does slope
back towards Locust Grove Road. That is the water they are getting from this side
inaudible}. I certainly hope that water that was coming off that pasture isn't getting into
their wells, it would be highly contaminated with fecal colifarm and nitrates from that
pasture operation. If you have any other questions I would be glad to address those at
this paint.
Bentley: 1 still have a problem with your talking of the surface water flowing because if
you have these gravel beds in the back in these back yards, in the back yards of your
development, then you are gaing to have what is ever there flowing out towards Locust
Grove and you are gaing to have inaudible}. I haven't heard any way that this is going
to be contained. I also have a problem with the fencing and the buffering to the
residents. I feel we owe it to them to give it same decent buffering if we are indeed
gaing to go with a light industrial in this area. I don't feel that a chain link fence even
with slats in it is going to do them any goad.
Lee: First of all the water issue, whatever drainage occurs on that site will be, if it
sloped properly and they should be to a low paint it will be collected into storm water
sand and grease traps or if it is not going to be sloped the water will percolate and it
will came dawn an tap of that colichi layer and it will move. It will be a rain fall situation,
I can't tell you that it is going be a certain amount of flow but it is certainly going to be a
lot less than is flowing there now. It will be rain, not irrigation water inaudible} pretty
good sized area. The landscaping issue in our previous praposa! is more than a chain
link fence. V11e talked about putting in the scotch pines and we are planning on a
staggered installation along that ~4 foot buffered area along with some law growing
grasses. So there will be some trees in there in the boundary along with the fence.
Carrie: Any further questians? At this time I will close the public hearing, Council,
questians of staff or comments?
Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I guess my position is not much different on this project than on
the prior one. I think that the findings of fact and conclusions as prepared for P & Z
don't accurately reflect the testimony and the issues that have been brought before the
Council. I would like to see those findings of fact redrawn by the City Attorney. Very
candidly if the option is to have conditional uses far the properties that are adjacent to
the existing homes then I would like to see that addressed and talked about in the
findings. Get some of those things tightened dawn with respect to the development
agreement if that is the avenue that we choose to go or not and with respect to CC&R's
and have all of those things as part of the findings of fact and conclusions so that once
again in the chart term we know what it is we are buying. !n the long term potential
users if it is approved would knowwhat the conditions are and that the neighbors would
know what the conditions of approval are if that is case. And by and large if it is turned
down that al! would know the reasons for such. It doesn't appear to me that the
(..
f
Meridian City Council
March ~8, ~9g1
Page 19
findings of fact and conclusions of law adequately addressed the issues that have been
brought to the table since the P & Z hearing.
Bentley: I would concur with Councilman Marrow, I too feel that the findings don't reflect
the testimony and the information that has been before us.
Tolsma: Yes 1 believe Mr. Morrov~s very eloquent oration (inaudible).
Rountree: Mr. Mayor, I think if this goes to an approval or disapproval the key to me is
the conditions and findings of fact need to be real specific as to the buffering of the
adjacent owners. I think that is an area that the findings need to emphasize. I guess I
agree with everybody else. I guess the only other thing I would say is that I would like
to have some comments from staff as it relates to the meeting that was held with the
developers. ~r was it just a sit down session of exchanging ideas and really no
resolution of any, no resolution inaudible}
Stiles: Perhaps Counsel would be better prepared to answer that question.
Crookston: fur discussion basically related to how it could be done, we of course
informed Mr. Lee that we can listen to him and he listened to us that na decisions can
be made, that decisions will be made by the City Council and the Mayor. We
discussed the having the property zoned l-L and allowing all conditional uses. We
discussed having conditional uses only be required around the homes to the east. ~r
denying the whole thing just as stated earlier, We discussed it more in depth but we
made no decisions as we can't. I think that Mr. Lee has fairly well represented what was
done at that meeting when he first started. That is really all the more that I can say that
happened at the meeting. Nothing was really done, we discussed things but no
decisions were made.
Rountree; Thanks Wayne.
Corrie: Any further comments from staff? I guess hearing what I just heard I would
entertain a motion far new findings of fact and conclusions of law.
Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I would move that instruct the City Attorney to prepare new findings
of fact and conclusions of law far the annexation and zoning request to I-L by
Properties West Inc.
Bentley: Second
Carrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Bentley to have the City Attorney
draw up new findings of fact and conclusions of law far the public hearing tonight for
the annexation and zoning to I-L by Properties West Inc., any further discussion? All
Phase in favor? apposed?
Meridian City Council
March 18, 1997
Page 20
MGTIGN CARRIED: All Yea
Rountree: I guess Mr. Mayor before we leave this item to get a sense of when that can
be done because our next item hinges on that. And when we may or may not
reschedule that.
Crookston: That is very true, what had been done in the past an this particular
application was that the findings of fact were not adopted or anything. It was only
moved to allow the findings of fact and conclusions of law for the annexation and then
the platting would be subsequently. If that is the request of the applicant he should
make that request, if he does not make the request that is the decision of the council as
to whether that shall be done or nat.
Corrie: So you will have time to do them by the April 1 ~ meeting?
Crookston: I believe so yes, but we still have item 4 an the agenda far tonight.
Corrie: That is correct, does that answer your question Mr. Rountree?
Rountree: The April 1~ does.
ITEM #4: PUBLIC HEARING CGNTINUED FRGM MARCH 4,1997:
Carrie: I will open the is public hearing and ask the developer if-we would like to make
the request to continue that to the April 1 ~ meeting.
Gary Lee, 25g S. Beechwood, Boise, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Lee: Yes, an behalf of the developer of Properties West we would like to request that
the City continue this preliminary plat contingent upon the new findings and the action
an the annexation.
Corrie: Thank you Gary, since this is a public hearing continuation, is there anybody
from the public that would Tike to enter any testimony at this time?
,1im Witherell, 215 South Locust Grove, Meridian, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Witherell: We would like to point out so far we don't really know what this place looks
like Sa none of the affected parties have any comment to make on it. It still, the fats at
the back that may change, it is a11, businesses are central that may change. The
easement may be introduced, the landscaping may be introduced but we would like to
have a comment that the public doesn't know what we are seeing yet,
Meridian City Council
March 18,1991
Page 21
Corrie: Thank you, anyone else from the public at this time? Council, any questions or
comments? At the request of the developers, I would like to continue the public
hearing with Council permission.
Marrow: Mr. Mayor, I would move that we continue the public hearing until April 1 ~ for
the preliminary plat far Medimont Subdivision.
Rountree: Second
Corrie: The motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Rountree to continue the
public hearing until April 1 ~ an the preliminary plat for the subdivision, any further
discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: Ail Yea
FIVE MINUTE RECESS
ITEM #5: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A VARIANCE TO REDUCE THE
SETBACK BY MERIDIAN LDS CHURCH:
Carrie: I will now open the public hearing and invite a member of the Meridian LDS
Church ar representative to step fo~rard.
Steve Simmons, 1~~1 Shoreline Lane, Boise, was sworn by the City Attorney.
Simmons: Mr. Mayor, members of the Council, we came with this application far
direction in November to one of your previous meetings just to get same sort of
direction as to how we should approach this project which seemed a little bit of a
nowhere gone and na one could give us a lot of direction an haw we should proceed.
Consequently with the direction we have received we have submitted far the variance
of basically a 5 foot infringement into the required 34 foot setback on the west side of
the property fronting Albertson's directly to the west and Ten Mile. V1le haven't received
any negative comments from staff or any of the other utilities in their review and
basically are just waiting for a decision.
Carrie: Council, comments ar questions of Mr. Simmons?
Rountree: The only question I have is I have yet to figure out this drawing. Although
understand what you are doing.
Simmons: Mayor Corrie and Councilman Rountree what we are trying to show is the
setback, our violation is only a small portion of the building because of the additional
right of granted to ACHD back when the building was originally built in I believe 89-9fl
in that time frame, Sa we are just showing the northwest corner is where the violation is
Meridian City Council
March ~ 8,1991
Page 22
and not the entire addition. It only happens because the jog is happening right in there
and that top third of the north side.
Rountree: I guess my question is this dashed line the roof sine, is that what that is trying
Simmons: That is the floor plan or the actual floor line.
Rountree: This is the roof line inaudible} And the cross hatched area is the
infringement area,
Simmons: Yes sir
Cowie: Is there anyone else from the public that would like to issue testimony on
request for variance?
Crookston: !Gust have a question Mr. Mayor. Mr. Simmons do you know what the width
of Ten Mile is going to be in front of the church?
Simmons: Mr. Crookston, I do not, we had inquired about any additional right of way
and didn't receive any comments that they want any further right of way in that. So we
don't know when those changes would take place. So to answer you question basically
do not.
Crookston: All I was thinking about was if we grant the 5 foot variance what happens
when Ten Mile Road is widened in front of the church.
Simmons: The original width was requested or right of way was requested to allow far
that flaring of that intersection. vile don't know when that is going to happen and our
original letter to the Council we had also stated that the church would be irvilling to grant
the additional five feet if required on the south side of the property. vve haven't heard
of a time frame as to when that is going to happen or even if it will happen.
Morrow: Inaudible} that is a section line road, the right of way will be a 9g foot right of
way. The cross section of asphalt ultimately could be the same as Cherry Lane.
Crookston: So what does that do with granting an additional ~ feet in the setback so
then there would be a ~5 foot setback. As I understand it they have a 3U foot required
setback, they are asking far a variance of 5 feet far this portion so that would mean the
setback would be ~~ feet.
Morrow: The new setback would be ~5 feet that is correct.
Crookston: I am just wondering how that fits in when the road is widened.
Meridian City Council
March 18, 1997
Page 23
Marrow: I think the presumption is that did not ACHD buy the right of way for the
section of road far the 94 foot right of way for that portion across the front of not only
the LDS church but the Reynolds property and is there not another little church to the
south, Stonehause. ~lllasn't the transition there pretty much the same as the Albertson's
frontage? I guess let me rephrase the question then. The question would be is the five
foot right of way that ACHD acquired would complete the 99 foot section, 45 feet on
your side of center line which is the maximum right of way inaudible} far that section
line rands.
Crookston: Are you going to build so that five feet helps in your building?
Simmons; That is the reason we are asking far the variance, is we are five feet into the
west setback an the top or I guess it would be the 3~d of the building to the north side
which that illustration shows which Mr. Rountree was asking for same explanation an.
So otherwise we wouldn't be asking for the variance. So you are correct Mr. Crookston
that it would be a ~5 foot setback.
Crookston: Did you have same questions Shari, you were dragging the microphone.
Stiles: nary went to ga get some plans on this project. If you remember this came
about because they are in an R-4 zone which number one does not allow churches
now, they wanted to get the building permit. one of the conditions of them getting a
building permit was that they should dedicate that additional right of way. This drawing
reflects only the 90 foot total right of way up to a point. Because Ada County Highway
District has indicated it is not going to be 90 ail the way it is going to flare closer toward
the intersection. So that is why only a portion of that is shaded. Everything you see the
addition part, that is what they want to add. I don't know exactly what Ada County
Highway District comments were but I believe before they get the building permit they
should dedicate that entire 45 foot for the entire piece of property.
Corrie: Mr. Smith?
Smith: Mr. Mayor and Council members according to the bid plans on the Cherry Lane
remodel project the highway show 45 foot of property on the Reynolds but it jogs back
to 4o feet in front of the church according to the plans of the reconstruction project.
Morrow: Sa what does that mean?
Smith: It means there isn't 45 foot of right of way existing in front of the church. I don't
know on this drawing that is being prepared by the architect I don't know where that
~Inaudibie} I don't know where the center line of road is in relation to the sketch that is
being provided by the architect,
Meridian City Council
March 18, 1991
Page ~4
Simmons; Mr. Mayor and members of the Council if I might address that. It is my
understanding that the additional right of way, where you see the jag we show a 3g foot
setback was granted and perhaps that is on the construction set that staff is looking at.
That is where the additional right of way was added and requested to allow for the
intersection expansion if it ever happened. Staff at our first meeting on November B
recommended that we touch base with ACHD and in fact we would agree that if they
need the additional right of way along the west side of the property we will work with
them and provide that if they really want that, the owner did not have a concern with
that. So we don't have a problem if that is a condition.
Smith: Mr. Mayor, I think in looking at the plans that the consultant had drawn up far the
construction of Cherry lane Road. Where you see the 1 foot dimension on the
architects drawing, from that point out to the centerline of Cherry Lane Road is 33 feet.
Where the ?foot jog then the dimension to Centerline of road is 4~ feet. So if another
5 feet was purchased far the section line road that would decrease the setback to End
of Tape}
Corrie: Any further questions? I think i asked before but in case I forgot is there
anyone else from the public that would like to give testimony here? Hearing Wane I will
close the public hearing, council discussion
Rountree: I was just going to ask what is the setback for a commercial lot is it 20 feet?
Crookston: It depends an what zone it is in.
Stiles: The front setback for a commercial zone would be 15 feet.
Morrow: Mr. Mayor, I would move we instruct the City Attorney to prepare findings of
fact and conclusions.
Bentley: Second
Corrie; Motion, made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Bentley to instruct the City Attorney
to draw up findings of fact and conclusions of law for the Apri! 1 ~ meeting, any further
discussion? Hearing none all these in favor? C~pposed'~
M~TI~N CARRIED: All Yea
ITEM #6: REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A FULL SERVICE
SALON WITH TWO STYLING STATIONS, NAIL TECHNICIAN AND MASSAGE
THERAPY ROOM BY KELLI STEWART:
Corrie: Kelli, would you please come up and give us a little background?
Meridian City Council
March ~ 8, 1 ~9l
Page ~5
VanHouten: UUe have applied for a conditional use permit and would answer any
questions that you might have.
~auntree: I dust ask if you have had an opparkunity to review the findings of fact and
conclusions of law that have been prepared and if you are in general agreement with
them?
Van Houten: Yes I received those today, I don't have any problem with that. There are
some minor changes that will be made inaudible}.
Corrie: Any further discussion or questions?
Bentley: Question for staff.
Carrie: I guess we don't have any questions, but we have same for staff, so stay close.
Bentley: I would like to ask staff if they have any comments on this application?
Stiles: Councilman Bentley, Mayor and Council, l don't find my comments in your
packet and I am not sure whether I had same comments on this but I would like to add
that and I have discussed this with the applicant, we don't want to see any of those A
frame signs sitting out in front of the building that they will all be permanent
professionally done signs and not the temporary type that has been occurring many
places throughout Meridian. And also to let the applicant know that the massage
therapy person does need to be licensed through the City of Meridian.
Stewart: (Inaudible)
Stiles: The City of Meridian does have a specific license far massage therapists and
that is dare through the police department there is an application that needs to be filled
out and it is a separate licensing procedure from this conditional use permit.
Stewart: (Inaudible)
Corrie: Any further comments or questions for staff? Hearing none 1 will entertain a
motion.
Marrow: Mr. Mayor I would move that we adopt the findings of fact and conclusions as
prepared far us by P & Z.
Tolsma: Second
Meridian City Council
March 18,199?
Page ~6
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Tolsma to accept the findings of
fact and conclusions of law as prepared by the Planning and Zoning Commission, any
further discussion? Roll call vote
RULL CALL VQTE: Morrow -Yea, Bentley -Yea, Rountree -Yea, Tolsma -Yea
M~TI~N CARRIED: All Yea
Corrie: Approval of the findings of fact and conclusions of iaw adopted by Planning
and Zoning. I will entertain a motion for the decision and recommendation.
Marrow: Mr. Mayor, I would move that we the City Council of the City of Meridian
approve the conditional use permit requested by the applicant for the property
described in the application with the conditions set forth in the findings of fact and
conclusions of law ar similar conditions as found justified and appropriate by the city
Council. That the property be required to meet the water, sewer requirements, fire and
life safety code requirements, Uniform Fire Code, parking, paving and landscape
requirements. P & Z requirements and all ordinances of the City of Meridian. That the
conditional use should be subject to review upon notice to the applicant by the City.
Rountree: Second
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Marrow, second by Mr. Rountree to accept the decision
and recommendation as read, any further discussion? A!l those in favor? ~pposed'~
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
ITEM #7: REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT- FOR A PROFESSIONAL
OFFICE BUILDING BY JAMES KELLER AND REID OLSEN:
Thurber: My name is Ronald Thurber, architect, I am the architect for the Keller and
Olsen. Mr. Mayor and Councilmen the application before you shows a conditional use
permit for a new 10,940 square foot office building, professional office building for
Keller and ~Isen in a brand new industrial commercial park just west of town the
Troutner Ballantyne park. As it is zoned commercial going in with a professional office
we do need a conditional use permit. In the design you can see it a well designed
building, one of the better architects inaudible} well landscaped. Rather than take your
time I will take any questions you might have.
Corrie: Council, any questions of Ron?
Morrow: !only have one Mr. Mayor, Mr. Thurber, have you read the findings of fact and
conclusions and the staff conditions and are you in agreement with those for your
client?
Meridian City Council
March ~ 8, ~ 99~
Page ~7
Thurber: 1 have and I have reviewed those with the clients and they are in agreement.
Morrow. Thank you Mr. Mayor, Mr. Smith has a question.
Smith: Mr. Mayor and Council members, although this is being applied far in a
subdivision that is being called out as a lot and a block officially this subdivision does
not exist, it is not recorded yet, It has been approved by the City Council but it is not a
lot and a block. There has been one building permit issued for a USDA building an this
parcel of graund but I don't know haw your decisions will want to be framed. This is not
an official subdivision yet.
Morrow: Gary can you expand on that a little bit and what are options are ar
ramifications ar the issues here? Is the final plat not yet been filed?
Smith: The final plat has not been recarded na, not to my knowledge. It hasn't been
submitted to me far signature. I know there was a question, I asked the question of Mr.
Thurber, I think it was last meeting about the progress of constructing this structure
because a building permit has already been issued on this parcel of graund and no
other building permits can be issued until such time as it is a recarded subdivisions and
the improvements have been completed and accepted by the city.
Thurber: I will address that, Gary Smith did reviewthat with me and this is a subdivision
that Keller is the engineer for, It is in the process, he though he would be away at this
time and he is actually behind us. l would assume that whatever passage you make
tonight would be conditional to the subdivision being officially recorded and soon.
Marrow: I have no further questions. Mr. Mayor, I think that what I would like to do is
move to approve the findings of fact and conclusions and then under the portion of the
decision and recommendation put a qualifier with respect to issuance of building permit
predicated upon the filing of the final plat. So if that is agreeable with fellow
councilmen then I would move that we approve the findings of fact and conclusions as
written.
Rountree: Second
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Marrow, second by Mr. Rountree to approve the findings of
fact and conclusions of law as prepared by the Meridian Planning and Zoning
Commission, any further discussion? Roll call vote.
ROLL CALL VOTE: Morrow -Yea, Bentley -Yea, Rountree -Yea, Tolsma -Yea
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
Meridian City Council
March 18, ~ 99l
Page ~8
Carrie; Nawthe decision and recommendation.
Marrow: Mr. Mayor, I would move that we the City. Cauncil of the City of Meridian
approve the conditional use permit requested by the applicant for the property
described in the application with the conditions set forth in the findings of fact of fact
and conclusions of law ar similar conditions as found justified and appropriate by the
City Cauncil and that the property be required to meet the water and sewer
requirements, the fire and life safety codes and uniform fire Cade, parking, paving and
landscape requirements and all of the ordinances of City of Meridian. ~Illith the
additional stipulation that no building permit shall be issued for this project until such
time as the final plat has been filed and recorded. The conditional use should be
subject to review upon notice to the applicant by the city.
Rountree: Second
Carrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Rountree on the decision and
recommendation as read, any further discussion? All thane in favor? Gpposed'~
MGTION CARRIED: All Yea
ITEM #8: DOLORES LISBY: DISCUSSION OF PAVING REQUIREMENTS FOR 706
E. FIRST STREET:
Lisby: I would like to stark, I hope that all of you have had the opportunity to read the
letter that I sent to you, This is, I own the lot, this lot that we are talking about here. It is
behind lg6 E. ~ ~. My problem is originally Ruth Crow that owns the adjoinin lot she
g
and I were bath going to go in together to do the paving which I want to do desperately.
But under the circumstances where she has backed out of her wanting to da it is going
to put an extreme hardship on me of over $5o0D more than the proposed project
because the drainage and all of that will have to be put onto my property rather than
going right dawn through the center of the two lots. Her property lot is quite a bit higher
than mine. So if I put the drainage in I am going to have the blunt end of having all of
the responsibility of keeping that clean. All of her drainage is going to be coming into
my drain which I will have to keep clean ~inaudibie}. There is going to have to be a lot
of cement put down the middle which is going to add a tremendous amount of money,
Yau al[ have the plans there, it will cast me $5444 mare by doing it myself than if she
and I could da it together. UVhat I need to maybe propose, I do want to pave this
desperately that was one of my main projects when I first remodeled my building.lll~ith
this acceptance here another thing where just one person is doing a lot like this the
engineer says that we have to dig down I forget how many inches more than if we did
the two lots together. That alone is costing another X930. There is extreme amount of
traffic that is going through there from not only the Frontier Club, there is Harry's Bar
and Grill, Taekawdo that is now leasing my building and then also a tremendous
amount of traffic from the bank that gees through there. There is nearly as much traffic
Meridian City Council
March ~ 8, ~ 997
Page 29
through those two lots as there is out on Broadway. So what I would like to find out and
see if you would go along with is I was thinking possibly we could get some road
(inaudible) after grading to specs, put the road (inaudible) no drain and see if that
wouldn't work. Otherwise, I feel that I would be putting money pretty much down the
drain because it would just be torn up with all of the traffic that would be put through
there. I will leave you for questions or whatever.
Morrow: (Inaudible) do you own the other two buildings?
Lisby: No I don't
Marrow: But yet you own the Iot behind it,
Lisby: Yes, !own one of the lots. There are two lots there
Morrow: And they are the full length of the 3 buildings?
Lisby: Yes it is 3o by ~~8.
Morrow: Follow up question, is the requirement to pave this because of the change in
tenants in the building?
Lisby: No, as I understand it from Shari Stiles that it was under condition that when
remodeled my building that it had to be paved, is that correct?
Morrow: That is because of the conditional (inaudible)
Lisby: !was hoping that on dawn the line if !could make it as good as passible and
make the drainage as well as possible on my portion maybe some time an down the
line I could get Ruth to go along with me as we had planned.
Carrie: ~lllhat changed her mind?
Lisby: She was, we had discussed this for aver a year and she was pro and can and
first she said she couldn't afford it and then she was all for it. And in fact she even went
along and gave me half of the engineer's fee. Then she called me and said she doesn't
have to do this because she doesn't need to do that to bring her customers in. So that
is a! I I know,
Carrie: There are some holes in there that you could Iose a motorcycle.
Lisby: ~h yes, and that is something else you see, it is never graded and !really want
to upgrade my property, but I can't see going more than twice the amount that it would
cost if her and !did it together. As well as the additional upkeep on down the line and
Meridian City Council
March ~ 8, ~ 99l
Page ~D
the asphalt being broken dawn. And there are some pretty heavy trucks that go through
there at times too.
Marrow: I guess Mr. Mayor, Shari your comments and Gary your camments'~
Stiles: Councilman Marrow, Mayor and Council, l guess my comment would be, I asked
Ms. Lisby to came here tonight because it was a condition of the Taekwonda school
that they pave and landscape. Private schools da require conditional use permit no
matter where they are at, so it wasn't just that it was in old town, Then when they
indicated they had an agreement with Mrs. Craw to pave the parking lot and even put in
some landscaping it sounded great. But I do understand her problem and I guess my
preference would be if Council approves the paving not be done today that at least a
band be put up for her amount of that parking lot. So in case we can get Mrs. Crow to
change her mind that will be in place.
Taisma: Inaudible} stalemate situation where Mrs. Crow possibly thinks it is going to
get done anyway and why contribute inaudible} until the other party agrees to
parkicipate inaudible}.
Morrow. I have to tell you based on (inaudible) one part may have Ms. Lisby pave that
portion then it becomes a freebie on the other side (inaudible) the way the ground is
(inaudible) have its own specific grade. But it wouldn't function I don't think very well as
a lot.
Smith: is there only 3D feet between the buildings?
Morrow. No 60 feet (Inaudible) the design of this is predicated on the two lots being
paved because (inaudible) on the property line.
Smith: Mr. Mayor and Council members it would be difficult to pave half of it and keep
the other half in gravel and as Ms. Lisby said it would be a maintenance nightmare for
the paved portion will track onto the pavement and into the drain. It would be a tough
maintenance situation, I think at the very minimum the lot should be graded and I think
Ms. Lisby means road mix rather than road inaudible}. But ~/ inch road mix was an
adequate thickness of ~/4 road mix was placed in there and compacted it would be a
much better surface then presently exists. ! think, I don't know whether there is any
liability from people walking out of the Frontier and stepping in a hale and following
dawn. ~lnaudible}
Lisby: As it is some of her property has been graded by my contractor which has made
it much better now so there isn't the pat hales in there that there once was.
Tolsma: (Inaudible) use that free ACHD speed bump testing.
Meridian City Council
March 18, ~ 99~
Page 31
Morrow: I guess from my perspective I don't have a problem with not paving it, I think
the bond issue does make some pretty decent sense. The other part of the coin is this
particular lot for as long as I can remember has been this way. I don't remember
anything every being built on that lot. It has always been that way and probably has
been graded once and that was your contractor that got Iost apparently and got on the
other portion. I don't think it works if you don't have both people participate.
Lisby: Believe me l tried, boy I tried.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor I too would agree, I can't see where doing one half is going to do
any goad especially if it is going to drain to the side that is paved with the drain.
Rountree: we don't have enough people to establish an LID so we can't go at it from
that angle.
(Inaudible)
Rountree; I think it is a difficult site and I agree it would certainly be nice to see it
surfaced by it really is a disadvantage.
Morrow I guess I have a technical question, nary can you answer that or Shari can you
answer that, in the terms of the issuance of a bond for this what is the life span of the
bond, is that practical, UVe could be talking anywhere from a year to l~ years.
Stiles: Councilman Morrow, Mayor and Council, a lot of the bonds we have had are
either for a one or two year span. I would hope that within that 2 years we could wank
on Ruth a little bit.
Morrow: So you see that in the ~ years you are prepared to either she acquiesces and
they da this within a 2 year time span or the bond lapses and so be it.
Stiles: l don't know what else to da.
Lisby: May l ask a question, I am not sure I understand. In other words l put up a bond
that if Ruth declines within whatever time period you put up that l don't have to go
ahead with it, is that correct?
Corrie: IlVell to a degree, the only thing is that your money is being tied up in a bond
for ~ years. If she doesn't came around you have lost interest in your bond money, that
is the only technicality that l see would be a disadvantage here far you.
Lisby: I am going to keep on her but !can't make any guarantee. I knowthat she, !think
felt that she was pressured by me to start with to even say that she would go along with
Meridian City Council
March 18, ~ 99?
Page ~~
it. But she just finally said I don't need to get that paved to get my customers in there
quote and unquote.
Rountree: if that is being used as parking wouldn't it have tv meet our ordinance to be
paved or does it grandfather out?
Morrow. I am sure that given the age of the building that (inaudible) nothing has ever
been there. As far as I know along that size had either been restaurants or taverns.
Lisby: My grandfather bought that property in ~ 933 and there has been nothing there.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, I believe the City Clerk has been requiring that either be
cash or a letter of credit because of the difficulty of collecting on the bond. Gary Smith
said what happens when Ruth wants to get her liquor license renewed?
Corrie: Another handle in other words.
Marrow: `I1Jell I guess to move us along, from my perspective I don't have a problem at
all with requiring the letter of credit or the cash band. vllhat that does from the City's
standpoint is that guarantees that yours gets down when hers is ready so that commits
you to the project. I also don't have a problem with a two year life span on working to
get that parking Iot in place.
Bentley: is that a motion?
Morrow: vvell I guess counselor your opinion?
Crookston: I have a conflict of interest because I have represented Ruth Craw for
many years. I represent her corporation that awns the Frontier Club and have for a Iong
period of time sv I can't make any recommendations ar opinions.
Bentley: Go calf John.
Crookston: He has the same conflict.
Morrow: Let me ask it in this manner, I am simply asking the methodology to get this
done. (inaudible) what is the procedure to do it. I am not asking about the merits
(inaudible)
Crookston: To modify the CU would require a petition application by Ruth Crow ar Bill
Frontier Club whoever the conditional use is named in they would have to request that
modification. ~r you could request it but you would have tv give native to Mrs. Craw
that was desired.
Meridian City Council
March 18, ~ 99l
Page 33
Morrow: (Inaudible)
Crookston; Then she can request the modification just file it so we have documentation
an it sa we have her request in writing.
Corrie: Could you not delay that for one year and give her time to talk Ruth into that
whole program. That is just another scenario to throw out there.
Morrow: Let me ask you this Mr. Crookston, the letter to Mayor Carrie is a request for
that modification, although it doesn't say ClJ it is a request an the part of Ms. Lisby to
have that changed.
Rountree; I just throw this out as a suggested motion along the lines that we allow an
extension of completion of paving of this lot as represented in the conditional use
permit subject to the applicant providing a letter of credit ar band for two years and
revisit it then.
Morrow: Second
Corrie: Madan made by Mr. Rountree, second by Mr. Marrow, I am sorry I didn't hear it
all Charlie, on reference to the tape, are there any further discussion? Hearing none,
all those in favor? apposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
Corrie: Did you understand what happened?
Lisby: In other words then in two years l would come back and bring this before you
again, is that true? UVho would I send the letter?
Marrow: To the City Clerk
Berg: if you need any help or anything of that just call me.
Lisby: Thank you
ITEM #9: MERIDIAN LICENSING SERVICES AGREEMENT:
Carrie: I guess this is the agreement we need to sign with the Motor Vehicle
Department that we didn't get signed for the new moneys received from the City Clerk
and the Sheriff 5 office in the amount of $112,396. Are there any questions from the
City Council to the City Clerk on this one?
Meridian City Council
March 18,199
Page 3~
Morrow: I guess the only question 1 have is Will and Wayne have reviewed this and
everything is in order now. I knowthatthis has been back and forth a couple of times.
Berg: Yes it has been and 1 have reviewed my portion of it. I don't know if Wayne gat to
Zook at the final copy but my review showed all of his corrections being completed and
al! of my corrections being completed. Actually they just tank whatever corrections we
made and just corrected them straight across in my opinion.
Morrow: Mr. Crookston, have you reviewed the final draft here?
Crookston: I have not, I don't know how Iong we have had it.
Marrow: Mr. Mayan, if there are no other questions an the part of the Council I would
like to move that authorize the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest upon review by
Counselor Crookston.
Bentley: Second
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Bentley, any further discussion? A11
those in favor? Gpposed?
MGTION CARRIED: All Yea
Berg: Wayne, can you look at that right away, we received that on the 10~~' of March
and it was in your ba~c and I did have a Hate that said I need it reviewed by tonight's
meeting.
Crookston: ~Illell you know I should have had it down, yes I will do it.
Corrie: Plus the fact that they owe us $30,000 right now.
ITEM #1 D: NAME CHANGE OF A PGRTIGN aF LGCUST GRGVE RGAD:
Corrie: This is the, they want to change to work Nola Raad which is the part of Locust
Grove that is being deleted because of the new proposed Locust Grave Road.
Morrow: Question, where the heck did Nola come from?
Berg: Be very gentle when you refer to names. This was like a third choice, Madden's
are the property owners to the west which the new Locust Grove goes through to the
southern portion. That was Mrs. Madden's name.
Corrie: (Inaudible)
Meridian City Council
March 18,199
Page 35
Morrow: well I gat it now it was Mrs. Madden's first name, her name was Nala Madden
I will bet.
Carrie: I will enterkain a motion on the name change of a portion of Locust Grove Road
then.
Rountree: I move that we accept the proposed name change for Locust Grave Road to
Nola Road.
Tolsma: Second
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Rountree, second by Mr. Tolsma to rename the Locust
Grove Road to Nala Raad, inaudible} it is a small part there that is being replaced.
Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor? Gpposed?
MGTIGN CARRIED: All Yea
ITEM #11: DEPARTMENT REPQRTS:
Corrie: Shari?
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council you had distributed #o you tonight a letter from Pat
Atcheson, she is I don't know if she is the owner ar just a representative of Beehive
Homes. They have a home in Meridian Manor Subdivision currently that is an elderly
care home. She had come in with a licensing document that was required to be signed
by Planning and Zoning department allowing her to have nine residents instead of 8.
told her that I couldn't do that because of some of the past direction and because of the
fact we are held to the State code as far as allowing the 8 residents and treating that a
single family home. However we aren't under any obligation to approve a 9t" individual.
talked to Eric Mondale at the Idaho Department of Health and Vllelfare, he indicated
that Boise City does have a policy in some case they will allow that ninth resident as
kind of a floating number. But, I tried to contact Mrs. Atchison. The only number that
have far her is a digital pager, I put in my phone number and I haven't received any call
back. So I just thought I would like to bring this before the Council and see if there is
any desire to allowthe ninth resident. This particular residence is directly to the east of
8~" street park. I have driven past it, I haven't been inside the house itself. i on! noticed
Y
a couple of cars there. I haven't had any complaints an that particular facility. This is
not one of the mentally handicapped ar extremely disabled homes that have been
coming into Meridian. This is strictly eldercare.
Morrow: Is it due east of where the old waste water plant was, is it the house on the
corner there or the next one in?
Meridian City Council
March ~ 8,1991
Page 36
Stiles: It is in the culdesac, it is a little bit south of where the BSU
Morrow: South or north of Business
Tolsma: (Inaudible)
Crookston. I believe that property has a conditional use permit for the operation of a
home is that not correct Shari?
Stiles: It is where, next to where the pole climbing yard is.
Crookston: There was a home over there that had applied far a conditional use for the
care of people, is this in that home.
Stiles: I don'# recall that since I have been here.
Crookston: This was done quite a fewyears ago.
Stiles: It might have been before the State code that allowed that without any kind of
approval by the City.
Crookston: That could very well be the case. I don't know the address and I would
have to go back and look at my file when we approved that conditional use permit.
Tolsma: (Inaudible)
Crookstan: That would be correct, I think those are the names.
Rountree: I would be a little hesitant to approve this action because my next question
is if nine is okay why not 1Q without any particular reason. I think we ought to bald it to
what is allowed.lNe do knowthe schools' concern with these kinds of residential care. I
think it could set a precedent that could be construed to the areas that they are
concerned with sa that would be my position.
Corrie: Other comments of the Council?
Bentley: I would agree, I think we have got the law in place for 8 and I think that is
where we aught to stay.
Marrow: I guess in the absence of a presentation by her, if this 9t" person was a
relative or close friend of someone that was there I would be willing to look at it as an
exception far as tang as that one person was there. But to ga to a ninth opening as a
general means of business I would prefer to stick with the eight. If there are some
Meridian City Council
March 1S,1g91
Page 3?
special circumstances then I will listen to that. If it is just an issue of expanding to nine
then my answer would be no.
Tolsma: I concur with Walter.
Corrie: You can relay that to her, I don't think this is required of us at this time, they are
just asking to be put on the agenda. Inaudible} if she wants to give us mare information
I think the Council would like to have mare before they do anything else. Does that
agree with the Council's approval?
Stiles; As stated in her letter she did indicate it was because a couple wanted to come
in. I don't know if that means she has seven now and wanted to go up to nine. I wanted
to ask her if i could go do an inspection and kind of see what kind of a facility it was so
that I could let you know but I haven't been able to contact her. So if I am able to
contact her and she would still like to be on the agenda next time is that okay?
Morrow: That would be fine by me and l would expect you to do that inspection
between now and the next meeting if she is in fact going to be on the next agenda.
Crookston: Just a comment on this area that we are talking abaut. l would imagine that
if she has 9 residents in the home she does not qualify for the right to have that home
in a residential subdivision because she does have nine, the law says eight.
Stiles: That is correct, so the Council could elect to have her either go through a
conditional use process or Inaudible}.
Corrie: That is correct, anything else Shari? Gary?
Smith: Mr. Mayor and Council, I have two items, first one concerns Tully Park fill dir#.
We have hauled in ~ 50o cubic yards that you authorized to haul several council
meetings aga and it looks like we still have about 1500 yards to haul. So we are about
~/~ done so I need your authorization to make that additional expenditure to haul that
extra d i rt.
Bentley: question for Gary, we still need the other half of the dirt don't we'~
Smith: Yes sir
Morrow: So moved
Rountree: Second
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Rountree (End of Tape)
Meridian City Council
March ~ 8,1997
Page 38
MGTIGN CARRIED: All Yea
Smith: The second item I had and it is going to take a little more clarification but I just
wanted to bring it before you tonight. I have a part time employee in the public works
department that has requested to be placed an health care benefits through our
medical insurance. Janice is trying to get a reading from Blue Cross to see if she can
be enrolled. She has indicated a willingness to pay the premium cast if she can be
enrolled under our group plan. Blue Cross's policy says that they have to work at least
ZD hours a week. However if they work ~~ hours a week then they fall into a
classification of the City having to pay additional benefits through PERSI for retirement.
So we need to get some further clarification on that through Blue Cross if they can
qualify as less than 2~ hours a week. But this comes up periodically, part time
employees requesting particularly the health care benefits. It is at a lesser cost to them
even if they pay the full premium than what they would pay on an individual policy
obviously. So, this will come back to you, Janice felt that she wanted City Council
approval on such a thing if it is allowed by Blue Crass.
Corrie: Thank you Gary, I think definitely the Counci! needs to review that, that is a
policy change as well. Gnce you open it up to it is open to anybody. Thank you Gary
and have her do that and bring it back to Council.
Smith: I think Councilman Morrow has an item so I will just pass that along for Ashford
Greens, Thank you that is all I have.
Corrie: Chief?
Gordon: Mr. Mayor, were we going to go into executive session?
Corrie: Yes we can either go into it after we go through this.
Morrow: It doesn't matter when we go into it, but my preference is that we deal with the
issue of Ashford Greens and those folk can be on dawn the road doing whatever it is
they want to do. As opposed to having them wait until we go through an executive
session if that is okay with you and the Council. Having said and I am going to ask
David make a brief presentation. It seems to me that if I recall when we approved the
plat of Ashford Greens there was an issue with respect to getting the sewer line, the
pressure sewer line in and the lift station that does bring the effluent back to the sewer
plant. The City has the obligation of putting in the lift station, the applicant has the
obligation of putting in the pressure lines. There is a home, we did approve a home
under construction now for a parade of homes house given the original lot in one
residence. I think that parade starts the middle of April and that home is progressing
on. The question has been asked by Mr. Turnbull that if the Cvuncii would agree to
having other homes built in there prior to the completion of the pressure line and the lift
station since at this juncture it appears that their completion date is about 3 months out.
Meridian City Council
March ~ 8, 997
Page 39
My answer to him was he needed to bring that before the Council and make the case
far the Mayor and Council since it has been a condition of the approval of the phase to
begin with. Sa having set that up David do you want to make your case for your
proposal?
Turnbull: Thank you Mr. Mayor, Councilman Morrow and the rest of the Council. What
we are requesting is nowthat the final plat is ready to record we were given the original
parade home permit based an basically a farm split far a home. And that was the
decision that was rendered back in November. At the time I spoke with Councilman
Marrow, in addition to that he said that wanted to get further clarification an the timing
for the lift station and we are that point where the design is done it is in for I think the
final review to Gary and that should be done this week. So given that we met earlier
this week with myself, Councilman Morrow, Gary and Brad Watson Pram the City
Engineer's department and felt that like Councilman Morrow said it was about 90 days
out far completion of construction of the lift station and pressure main. In the mean time
I guess going back to November Councilman Morrow wanted to get a comfort level of
where that was and now we know where it is. Essentially we are starting construction if
we are starting construction today we are ~ ~o days out far completion of homes which
presumably takes us 3B days past when the lift station will be completed. As I ga back
aver the history of this project we have been fallowing up with the City Engineer's office
obviously concerned that we have had a project and paid since November and the lift
station has not been completely. Basically it has mostly been one of my employees
dealing with one of Gary's employees, Brad Watson. Brad would assure us that the
City was on the job they understood the responsibility on the lift station versus our
responsibilities. And that if need be, we talked about schedules at that time probably
not having homes ready to occupy until the summer months. And that need be in the
mean time if any, that the sewage could be pumped and transported by truck on an
interim basis. We don't anticipate much of that, we feel like that things are going slang
well now in the design and the project will be bid and completed in a short period of
time. Have I pretty well represented the history Gary?
Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I have a couple of questions vn this. First off you mentioned
pumping and transparking, who does that?
Turnbull; We haven't really worked that out. It was my indication from the
conversations my employee had with Brad Watson the City would be doing that if we
need to make i# a joint venture. Even if I have to do it we really would like ta, we have a
number of builders that are inaudible} this is their prime building season. A lot of
building and marketing plans hang in the balance.
Bentley: Secondly, last November I asked you for a copy of the agreement to move the
lift station from the current site and you said you would provide it, I haven't seen it yet.
Meridian City Council
March ~~, X991
Page 44
Turnbull: There is no agreement, there was no agreement to move the lift station, I
have no letter regarding that. It was a decision made by Meridian City engineering staff.
That is correct is it not Gary? That has basically been a matter of on going discussion
between Gary, JUB was the consulting engineer at the time and 1 think there was a lot
of study work going back and forth. And the determination was made by the City
engineers office.
Smith: The decision was or the recommendation, the request was to move the lift
station from Five Mile Creek on Black Cat Road south to Ustick Road. In order to
circumvent the construction of a 33 inch diameter interception line in Black Cat Raad
which is what the facility plan called for to be built to a regional lift station. After we got
to looking at the relocation of the regional lift station to this location we found that the
depth to the invert or the bottom of the we11 far a lift station of this sire was
unmanageable. It was way too deep. So we had to back up to not a regional lift station
but what you could call a subregianal lift station that will serve about 18gg homes
think it is in that area. There was, the only I guess the request that was made was to
move the lift station to the south to reduce expense of developing a regional facility.
Turnbull: As I understand it the regional lift facility that is planned for some time out in
the future would generate, would handle the equivalent sewage of double the current
plant capacity. Is that right Gary?
Smith: I think it is at least, well it was, I don't remember haw many million gallons per
day it was, it was ~g some CFS cubic feet per second and that is, it has a a33 inch
diameter pipe coming into it, the waste water plant has a 3D and a 3B inch diameter
pipe. Itwas significantflaw.
Bentley: But still nobody knows show made the decision?
Morrow: In terms of what decision was that Glenn?
Bentley: To mane it.
Marrow: Vl~e made the decision, because of engineering problems to move the lift
station. I think if memory serves me in our conversation is was some 33 feet deep.
Smith: Yes, it was an excess of 3g feet in depth. If it was moved, if the regional lift
station was moved to the south. The development, I guess backing up one mare step
is the construction of a regional lift station for this development would not be feasible
because there was just too much expense involved. It is too big a facility, it was so big
that it was even difficult to phase develop such a facility. In fact this particular lift
station is going to be phased developed in terms of the pumps to where Ashford
Greens would be the only service that would come into this lift station for a period of
time and initially if you have gat ~ 0 to ~ ~ homes this year I don't know how many you
Meridian City Council
March 18,199?
Page 41
are expecting to build bu# maybe double that number this year. It stilt it is just a
pittance of what that pump station is capable of handling, There, when you are talking
about 1894 home capacity. Sa you can see kind of the difference between what we are
talking about this point and what we are tacking about in a regional lift station that is
serving 100's of acres of property, I am not sure that the concept of moving the
regional lift station was really moving the regional sift station. I think that we tacked
about the passibility of doing that, after we got into it in the engineering standpoint
found that it just wasn't feasible to mane it from an expense of just the depth of it but
also from the standpoint of having to phase develop it to serve this very small area
initially. I think that the moving of the regionac lift station kind of went away and then
the sub-regional sift station became the issue to build far service of a mare localized
area.
Marrow: Can I expand an that for just a quick second, the other thing is internally we
need to make a decision as to how we are going to finance the 33 inch diameter thing.
Basically that drains everything from the corner of Linder and Frankcin down Ten Mile
ail the way to Black Cat and then over. So we don't know that it is reasonable to expect
that the development community makes it. We have to make some policy decisions
there. The other thing in terms of the 1800 homes that inaudible} is that part of those
are in currently existing subdivisions that are draining over into other lines byway of lift
stations that would now come into this lift station this system that is being built. It would
also alcowfor same potential development an the west side of Black Cat inaudible} that
is haw we got to where we are at.
Carrie: If I might, i wasn't in an the conversations that you had when you met but I think
correct me if I am wrong, there will be your pressurized tine from that pump station, are
there two lines a 4 inch and an 8 inch that is going to go side by side am I correct? That
will be said in the same ditch and the inaudible}
Turnbull: Yes, and I just wanted to try to clarify one thing, I think Gary in our meeting
last week you clarified that regional sift station location isn't moved. It stilt wicl remain in
that existing location
Smith: That is correct
Turnbull: But building that is like building a 12 cane bridge when you need enough for a
horse and cart to cross. Just powering up the thing to pump enough sewage that is
going to be generated for the foreseeable future it is not feasible.
Corrie: That is going to be necessary (inaudible) I just wanted to make sure that I got
my thinking correctly here so that line will be the 6 inch line that you will be doing. Now
will we Gary lay those together the 6 and the 8?
Smith: Yes they will both be in the same trench.
Meridian City Council
March ~ 8,1997
Page 4~
Rountree: What is the status of the final plat?
Turnbull: It is signed by the County Engineer and ready to record, I can go dawn and
record it in the morning,
Smith: That was my question, I didn't know where the final plat was. l think one other
thing is that we had, I think they had a sanitary restriction stamped on the plat subject
to approval of the plans of the lift station, I believe is the way the letter was written.
think that Hubble Engineers have submitted I think it is the mast current review set of
the plans to DEQ and they have given it an initial look at. I wouldn't expect that
approval would be very far away.
Turnbull: He indicated to us Gary that he would be ready to sign that off as soap as he
gets just the letter from you.
Corrie: Any further questions?
Smith: One other thing I wanted to bring up in terms of pumping, I talked to John
Shawcroft at the waste water department and our sludge truck can lift 15 feet. Beyond
that we would have problems in pumping that manhole. I didn't get a chance to look at
the plans today after I talked to David but I think that manhole is an excess of 15 foot
depth. So we would have, there would have to be some other provisions for pumping
out of that manhole, whatever they might be. Submersible pump, some kind of a
grinder pump.
Morrow: I guess the one question in my mind is that the actual pumping, Gary raises a
goad point. It seems to me like in this particular case that my preference would be that
we tie this up in such a manner that the City moves forward post haste and Brighton
moves forward past haste to get this accomplished. I think that historically we have not
gone with City pumping as !recall. If there is pumping to be lane it is done at the
expense of the inaudible}. It seems to me that if we are going to deviate from the no
pump standard and allow that to happen then it ought to in fact be at the developers
management or whatever so that if there are blanks inaudible} should there be any
occupancies that arise inaudible} we don't have to take City time and personnel to
handle the Inaudible}. 1f we don't have the equipment to do it inaudible} it is
academic at that point, somebody else would have to do it.
Turnbull: Well like I said I guess I will do whatever I have to do to move forward, I have
only had one other experience like this and that is when we started our Hobble Creek
project and the City of Boise was to bring the line to a certain paint. They had trouble
getting easements and we spent about 8 months. I think that was a 2? foot deep
manhole that they pumped and transported Boise City did it on that project but whether
Meridian City Council
March ~ 8, ~ 99l
Page 43
Meridian had the capability ar not I don't know. i guess I will do whatever I have to do
to mane forward. I don't think it is going to be a big expense item either way.
Morrow: I guess let me in that particular case my response would be that Boise City
clearly held up the project inaudible} City of Meridian and Brighton Corporation moved
post haste to get this accomplished. I guess my fall back position would be that if the
City of Meridian is unduly holding it up for whatever reasons we take some of the
responsibility inaudible} based vn the way I see it right now somebody would have to
make the case for that. I would think inaudible}
Turnbull: I understand what you are saying, I am not going to argue the point at this
time if we have to take responsibility far it we shall.
Carrie: Any further comments or questions?
Turnbull: I will come over to Wayne's office and pickup my straw.
Rountree: I just offer a comment, I am not particularly keen an the passibility of having
people occupying homes that potentially don't have sewer service. I know I am not
apposed to advancing the construction if we can keep things on occupancy. I just think
we are opening the door far complaints that we don't need and creating an issue with
the City that we are not providing the services that we are supposed ta.
Bentley: I would agree with Charlie, I see a real problem down the road. Everything
tames together well and there are no occupancies and we get the sewer running like it
is supposed to be that is great. But, I don't think the phones need to ring down here if
there is a problem. I wouldn't be in favor of lending occupancy permits without the
sewer system up and running.
Turnbull: Mr. Mayor, may I make a comment? I guess I would agree with both
Councilmen Rountree and Bentley if we had been the one dragging our feet. I think we
have done everything we can to push it forward. Inaudible} pestered him taa much,
been in his office too many times but we have been doing our level best to move things
fannrard. There are certain things that are in the City's control that we can't we just
can't farce.
Rountree: l guess as a Councilman I can't put myself in a position that I farce a
potential resident into a situation that is untenable to them.
Turnbull: Well perhaps you would like to hold judgment on that until you see what the
situation is 9a days from now.
Rountree: Well I am hopeful that it all comes together.
I r
Meridian City Council
March 18,199
Page 44
Corrie:llVeil da you want to wait 9 days so we can see it?
Turnbull: Excuse me?
Corrie: I am hearing 9 days, I can't hear.
Turnbull: 9D days, well what I am saying I guess is from projections of the city and
ourselves it (oaks like we will have this thing buttoned up in 99 days.lNe don't expect
any occupancies before about 1 ~0 days. INhy don't we see what happens in 90 days,
go ahead and get our building program and if we can show to you that we have a
system up and running then it is no problem. If for some reason it is not and it is not
due to Brighton Corporations lack of following through on their responsibility I guess I
would hope to have a sympathetic audience with this Council. If there are some interim
solutions that can be proven to work satisfactorily then I would hope that the Council
would be agreeable to those as well. Vlle are not here to cause any problems
ourselves.
Marrow: I think the issue then becomes does the Council wish to upon filing of final plat
wish to have building permits issued but no occupancy certificates issued and take a
look at the occupancy permit issue 9D days hence.
Rountree: That would be my preference.
Bentley: Mine too
Rountree: That takes care of my concern in terms of putting somebody in a hardship
situation.
Turnbull: I don't mind revisiting it in 99 days.
Morrow: That being the case then I would move that we grant upon the filing of the final
plat and recording of it that we grant building permits in phase 1 of Ashford Greens and
that in 99 days we revisit it to see about completion of the sanitary sewer system and
discuss at that point occupancy certificates but na occupancy certificates would be
issued prior to that decision.
Rountree: Second
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Morrow, second by Mr. Rountree, any further discussion?
All those in favor? Gpposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
Corrie: I guess Chief, we are going to go to executive session now (inaudible)
Meridian City Council
March 18, 1991
Page 45
Morrow: Mr. Mayar, I move that we go to executive session.
Bentley: Second
Corrie: Motion made and seconded, all those in favor? Opposed?
MGTIGN CARRIED: All Yea
ExECUTIVE SESSIGN
Corrie: I vvill reconvene the Council meeting from the executive meeting that was in
reference to a personnel problem. Chief, you are on.
Gordon: March fi, Mayar Corrie and Councilman Rountree and myself met with Ada
County Commissioners reference the Meridian City communications center. The
meeting degraded into finger pointing episode and kind of went off into several different
areas. Basically the crux of the meeting was that the 911 money that is received by Ada
County will continue to go to Ada County and they feel that it would be in violation of
the law if they allocated any of that money for anything other than their 911 center. So
that leaves us bearing the entire burden of the cost of the communication center. There
should have been a copy in everybody's box on possible financing. We talked
originally before l came up with the inaudible} vn those two officers the money that
was in the building fund was going to be used fvr the communication center. Which is
presently $132,x40, but that falls a Tittle short of what is necessary to have a 24 hour
communication center. 1Nhat I was looking at was what was left in last year's budget
which would leave me still approximately $55,00x short. So I guess what I am here for
is suggestions, direction.
Corrie: Sa if I am correct Chief we are looking for the $113,xx4 plus from last year's
carry over plus $55,404 plus to give you the total that you need for capital outlay for
now to the end of the year ar Gctober 1.
Bentley; I have a question on procedure for rolling in the end of the year surplus, I don't
know howthat is accomplished.
Morrow. (Inaudible)
Bentley: is it done by department or does the whole entire budget have to be rolled in
and then split out.
Morrow: (Inaudible)
Bentley: So in essence they are held for a year.
Meridian City Council
March ~ 8, ~ 99l
Page 46
Morrow. Well in reality they are held for a year (inaudible) recognize those through
your audit process when (inaudible) make the adjustment (inaudible). And we are going
to start our audit I think next week and the outcome of that audit (inaudible) and then
our budget process starts in July and August.
Bentley: So in essence what you are telling me is this program can't be put in place
until (inaudible)
Marrow: Probably not, the only way that you could do it if you could find somebody
inaudible} But it means that you are going to have to cut something somewhere in the
budget inaudible}.
Gordon: Well that $132,000 which I have in capital outlay which is for building is
available in this year's budget without cutting anything.
Morrow. Could you use part of that (inaudible) what is your net?
Gordon: It is $132
Morrow: Your next is $132 (inaudible)
Gordon: ~lllell it leaves me $~ ~ 3,000 from last year plus $55,804. I knave that, it is more
than $55,000, The total arnvunt for a 24 hour communication center is $~6l,ZOl.
Morrow. So you are $132,000 (inaudible)
Gordon: Vvith what I have in capital Outlay now would get me stacked on the equipment.
The problem is we have never had anything. So everything had got to come right from
the ground up. That is what I was hoping the County Commissioners would let loose a
little bit of that money even though it is a communication center it is still an emergency
communications as far as I am concerned. But they view it as strictly 9~ 1 money.
Morrow: (Inaudible)
Berg: W1lhat is the cast then far the next year to dust operate that department. In other
wards haw much more is it going to increase the continuous years after you buy all of
the equipment and get ail the basis for it?
Gordan: You have personnel which is reoccurring and then you have probably about a
~ 5 to ~0°/o replacement, update. And then your rental fees on the lines we are still
dealing with the phone company as far as the extra lines. We are right up against the
wall right now on lines anyway. Uve don't have any more and the phone system won't
Meridian City Council
March 18,1991
Page 47
~..
t
ga any bigger. So that 19 to 1 ~°/o covers line rentals, increases there and then
equipment maintenance and replacement. So you will be lavking
Rountree: I am just going to make this comment from an observation that I made at the
meeting that we had. The Sheriff Mr. ileen and Susan Thomas the County Attorney
were very adamant that the City of Meridian could not da this. They pointed out
specific language in the State code that prohibits any City or local jurisdiction
establishing any kind of an emergency communications systems if in fact there already
is a 911 system in place in the County. They went back to that multiple times and I
know the Chief has some indications that there may be same other areas in the code
that would allow us to do it but I think that issue really needs to be investigated and
cleaned up. My sense of the Sheriff is that he is going to came after us if we dv it.
really think he is going to build a case and exercise us aver the deal. I would like to see
that, maybe UVayne working with Susan Thomas to find out just want the fine lines are
there. I would cerkainiy hate to see us spend the money and then have to spend
another $5Q,9D9 or $89,99a defending ourselves in court casts and that sort of thing. I
am not saying this because I disagree with the City's need to respond to the concerns
of the residents tv have somebody around town knowing what is going on and being
about to get some help when they need it. But I don't want to get us put in a position
where we are going to be taken to task and potentially not be successful.
Gordon: There are two issues, the one that you are talking about we can't touch
because they said we can't. The other issue we can and there is nothing that he can
da to stop that. i can have my own dispatch center, Presently the Title 31 puts the
responsibility on the Sheriff or on the County Commissioners who have designated the
Sheriff to receive all 911 communications and then relay them to service providers.
Uvhat they do now is they have a person that answers a phone determines if it is fire
ambulance, police and if it is police which one. They throw a switch and transfer it over
to the call, the person the dispatcher. The way that we are lavking at with the
communication center is instead of transferring it in house he would transfer it to
Meridian and it would only be Meridian police that we would be allowed to transfer, we
can't take the fire. Eventually we could pick up the fire. He is fulfilling his obligation and
we are still legal within the ramifications of the law. He cannot stop us from having our
awn communication center. He can only stop us from receiving and disseminating
inaudible} all other coils can come to us and there is nothing he can do about it. He
must transfer the call
Rountree: I hear what you are saying but that is not what they are saying. The code
does not talk about specifically 911 coils.
Gordan: Yes it was, that is what I got. The only thing they were arguing in fact the letter
that the Mayor just got they reiterated the fact that you are welcome to da your own
communications center but you can't do 911.
Meridian City Council
March 18,1997
Page 48
Rountree: Right
Gordon: We are not going to do 911 because we can't, that is going to take legislation
(inaudible).
Carrie: I have talked to bath Vern and Roger on this one and they said there is nothing,
if you want to put your dispatch center inaudible} you are not going to get the
emergency 911 dispatch, but that is what they were talking about that code and I have
it in my desk #hat is the 911 emergency communications. One thing they would have to
da like Bill said we would have to work out a means that the police department will get
that call dawn here and we dispatch the cars. That was a 911, I forget what the code is
and you can verify this, you are going to have to anyway counselor. That is where the
Sheriff was coming in sa adamant that he doesn't want to lose any money and they are
not going to release any at this point. They were talking about the ISP, ISP doesn't
have anything to do with it. They are not going to do it Inaudible} talking to a couple
three legislators they are a little bit upset and uptight about it and I think if we get
enough of the police departments around to make enough noise that is going to change
anyway. You are absolutely right they are not going to give up the 911 it is just that
simple.
Gordon: (Inaudible) what you are talking about was when I mentioned the fact that
Bannock County allowed Chubbuck to do theirs and then they said they violated the
law. Well I would think that Bannock County has attorneys also. I still think to this day
that if the County Commissioners say we will allocate and split this off for Meridian to
have their own 911 they can do so. They have the say over that money.
Rountree: Yes, they actually do the budgeting.
Gordon: The only other way would be legislation, but they are falling back on that legal
issue that it is against the law. I don't think Bannock County violated the law.
Crvokstan: I have a question, is it, regardless of who is supposed to da it, or who does
it is there a duplication of services?
Gordan: No, there is a duplication of radio communications but not services. That is
one of the problems.
Crookston: That would be the services that
Gordon: One of the problems is that the sheriff is trying to dispatch 4 different agencies
and he is interjecting his policy into a!l of those. They are holding calls that should be
dispatched into Meridian. They are holding them at will, they are deciding when our
cars go outside, they are sending our cars out to County coils. Vlle have nothing to say
about that because we are not in charge of the radios. l keep track of them, I know
Meridian City Council
March 18,1991
Page 49
exactly haw many times they go out in the County and how many times they go out to
help. They totally control our police cars by having that radio communications. Our
cars do what they tell them to do and nothing else. ale have no control. That is
probably the biggest problem, the most recent one was the burglary up at Meridian
Ford. She called in about 4:34 and said that her business had been broken into this is,
is it Meridian Ford up on Fairview, Meridian Auto. She called in about 4:30 or 5:00 and
we hadn't switched our phones ever yet so it was still going to the Sheriff s office. They
held that call until 1:30.
Crookston: It went to the Sheriff and the call was made at 4:30.
Gordan: Our phones transfer over between, we only run from S to 5 so it was in the
morning. They held the call and she called back in again and wanted to know why an
officer wasn't there and we had officers clear all morning. At 8:q0 right about 8:00 they
took the phones off and she got through to us and I mean to tell you there was a
thorough thrashing went an and there was nothing we could do. !went out personally
and explained the situation to her, she calmed down a little bit, she is a very fiery lady.
But that is the type of thing that we are running into.
Crookston: I think that if that is occurring we need to have an agreement with the
Sheriff that he will distribute the calls as they came in.
Gordon: It is his dispatch center and if it is not an emergency he doesn't have to do it
anyway except for the way he wants to do it.
Crookston: That is what I am saying we need to have some kind of an agreement a
contract that says what he wi I I do.
Gordon: I just found out recently that when one of our officers need help they don't get
a hold of the State police. And that is a feud between the State Police and the sheriff.
The Sheriff s dispatch will not call the State police to come back up Meridian units
because they control communications. Either Ada County will show up, Boise City will
show up if they are close.
Rountree: Gv back to your statement about the most recent burglary, my question to
you is have all three of the County Commissioners and the Sheriff s office been notified
in writing of that situation? Because we were in very poor bargaining pasture with them
when all we could say is things are bad and we could not give them specific. And quite
frankly they said hadn't heard anything from the City of Meridian for four years.
Gordon: Correct
Meridian City Council
March 18,199
Page 50
Rountree; And that was a pretty awkward position to be in and to argue with them. They
need to know what the problems are. They said that if they knew what the problems
were they would correct them. I think what we need to do is prove them wrong.
Gordon: Vve are back to the 911 calls, the only thing they can control is the 911 calls.
Where I am having a majority of my problems is on the standard communication calls.
That burglary didn't come in on a 911 it just come in on Meridian's police lines.
Rountree: But it did switch to 911.
Gordon: No the call is transferred over, it does ga in on, 911 is a separate system
altogether Charlie.
Rountree: Sa it goes into their communications centerfor dispatch though.
Gordon: Can my sine
Rountree: On your line and we are supposed to have (End of Tape)
Gordan: We have just been overruled and aver voted every time we go down there with
a policy, they don't follow our policy. They follow what everybody else's policy is. So
consequently we don't control our cars.
Marrow: I think where Charlie is gaing with this is that this is a perfect example to write
up and get it to the County Commissioners and say Mrs. Smith called in at 4:30 a.m. on
the Meridian line expecting an officer there in a reasonable amount of time and the
dispatch at the Ada County Sheriff s never did dispatch our cars to this trouble. We
finally were coiled by Mrs. Smith at 8:03 a.m. and promptly dispatched somebody at
8:10 a.m. or whatever the numbers might be. I think that the supporting documentation
far the contention that we are not getting very goad service and that we are gaing to go
inaudible} would be a perfect case in point 1 would think you could site and have the
County Commissioners become aware of inaudible}.
Gordon: Charlie brought this up right after the meeting and they are gaing to get a
monthly fist and we already have a big pile of them right now far this month. But the
problem was the first five years I was here I went to all of these meetings and all 1 got
was just you get what is out there, you are just small cog in the wheel don't worry about
it we will take care of you. I complained for five years to the point where I just got sick
and tired of listening to myself. Sa I just didn't go to their meetings any more until the
next four years until this last one. That was the reason far the gap. It doesn't mean the
problem stopped, I have got like 1 say, I will bring you copies of all of the complaints but
every month the guys are logging them in and I am getting four and five complaints a
night. Probably the worst one is, he has got millions of dollars, he spent about $8
million on radio equipment, he has gorgeous equipment, i won't say anything against
Meridian City Council
March 18,1997
Page 51
his equipment. But where he screws up is he has all of this equipment and he only has
one person running the radio. He has gat all of the Boise officers out there, all of the
Ada County officers out there, all Garden City and all of Meridian. 1Nell on a Friday or
Saturday night one of our guys stops somebody and wants to do a registration ar
warrant check they are told that they are 8tnr 7tn, gin} 1 gt~, in line it will be 18 minutes.
That is what is unacceptable, he is cutting back on personnel because he can't spend
Title 31 money on it. That hasn't changed in the 8 years that I have been here. It is
just, it is worse now because there are more officers out there. But the equipment is
gorgeous I would love to have some of that equipment, But we are keeping track of all
of the complaints Charlie.
Rountree: It is a legitimate way to go at them because
Gordan: It is you are right
Rountree: They just crucify us if we don't have, if we don't communicate that
Gordon: I know what they are going to say is these aren't 911 problems, these are
PSCB take them over there because that is what they have done in the past. If it is not
911 we don't even want to hear about it.
Rountree: But I don't think the Commissioners care, I think if Vern would have had a
handful of those his posture would have been different,
Gordon: Vern knows what the problem is gentlemen, he has been told by me, he has
been told by EMT's, everybody tells him the radio, I am not the only ane. EMT's are
raising hell, Garden City has just about had a belly full, but Garden City is in a different
situation than we are. Boise City they have gat it pretty well made that is because they
are right there. They are right there and they are the major controlling forces Boise
City so I am not going to knock them. They are getting their calls and their radios and
their voting in their procedures and that is what I end up following usually is Boise City
policy. I can continue to operate, but boy it is tough, This kidnapping out here when the
Sheriff just moved in and took over, well I will back up he apologized for that. But that
was due to solely communication problems.
Rountree: Has he bought you lunch yet.
Gordon: I could gv on for hours and you guys have all heard my stories. I am keeping
track and monthly the Sheriff gets a letter with all of the complaints.
Marrow: I think you need to copy the County Commissioners.
Gordon: INe are
{
Meridian City Council
March ~ 8, ~ 99~
Page ~~
Corrie: [guess, what would you like for Bill to da, do you want him to keep pursuing,
he has the $13~,Bgg in his budget. vUauld it be the recommendation of Cauncii to keep
pursuing where he is headed and with your budget adjustment down the line if after we
see where we are. He needs some direction here.
Morrow: Well 1 think the only direction we can really go is that Bill and Glenn need to
get together and make out a scenario to deal with the $132,000 and then we discuss it
as a Council. Quite candidly we can't do anymore with the rest of the money until the
budget year comes around and then we can rebudget from fund balance for some of
these things. They have to come up with some priority of (inaudible) help solve the
problem.
Rountree: There may be a phase 1a here.
Gordon: Inaudible}what are going to be the priority items right naw. I can, first one is
the telephone system, our phone system is dust totally aver run.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor, as I passed out is the phases of this that we were looking at. I
think what we really need is from the Council, fram the rest of the Council. is to make
sure everybody is on board and yes we want to go 24 hour dispatch here for our Iocal
entity. Then we can ga ahead and start purchasing same of the equipment that we
need out of the capital outlay that we have naw. Then can work towards staffing with
the new budget here. We need to know that this is what the Council indeed wants us
to proceed with.
Morrow: i think from my perspective is that we have all of the information with all of the
pluses and minuses that could happen sa that we knawwhat the bottom line is not only
to get in the business but what it is going to cost on an annual basis to run it. Then
make sure that inaudible}. !don't want to see us start something up and then a year
fram now have tv dv something different, that is my position about that. So I would like
to see the whole scenario and then we sit down and talk about it.
Bentley: I do think that the phone fines issue is a critical issue because of the need for
dedicated lines for the computer systems that we have and the updated computers that
we are going to need. So I would like to proceed with that.
Rountree: I think those kinds of systems that have independent utility that don't
necessarily have to be enhanced, they will function fine and give you great service far a
long period of time probably are things you need to prioritize and probably need to take
a look at acquiring at this point if you never get to a computerized system but you have
a gaol system that is a basis of your communications anyway. I don't have a problem
with that,
{~
t
Meridian City Council
March ~ 8, ~ 997
Page 53
Gordon: The one we are looking at is compatible with everything that the Sheriff has
and everything that we will have down the road.
Rountree: You did have a portion of the budget that dealt with increasing the hours of
operation of the dispatch anyway this budget as I recall in terms of staffing and capital.
Gordon; You are right and that was an error on my part. I can do that but when I do
that then l split the cars. Because we can't right now dispatch our awn police
emergencies. Sa the officers have to run on two frequencies and that was a screw up
on my part. You either have to split them or you don't split them. Yau can't da it
halfway because then they have to listen to 2 channels. So that was an error an my
part. Vve tried that and it just screwed up the works. Uve knew within about 4 hours that
I had screwed up. Yau either have to go inaudible} what we have been doing is when
she carves in she just runs an the administrative channel which is channel four and
doesn't do any dispatching. Then they call in for warrant checks and registrations and
stuff like that. we don't interfere. It is not my goal to screw with those 9~ 1 calls, my
end goal is to give better service and respond quicker to the people in Meridian. If I
tried to push the issue right now part time I would be screwing with service and I just
can't do that. We either have to go 24 hours ar don't ga. I know that now. So she is
busy putting things together, policies, letters to the Sheriff, attending his PSCB board.
Rountree: Are we now an official member?
Gordon: No, that is another story. I will tell you after (inaudible)
Bentley: We have a letter here of apology from the fine Sheriff, they changed the time
of the meeting and didn't bother to tell us.
Gordan: Eight minutes before the meeting they called. and told us we were going to be
the topic of discussion sa you had better be there. Then they told us ~o:OQ and then 8
minutes to 9:oQ and called and said it is 9:90.
Rountree: Did the County Commissioners get a copy of that.
Gordon: Yes
Rountree: That is how we are going to have to play their game. Vve are going to have
to play by their rules, if they start breaking them.
Gordan: Illlell like I said we gat a letter from the Sheriff apolagi~ing that is unusual for
him. People changed the date and then they all went to Reno to a school and left him
to handle the letter when I smoked inaudible}, Telephone system, or do you want
another break down, that is number one on the I ist, telephone system.
Meridian City Council
March 1 x,1991
Page 54
Rountree: I would like to see priorities and how they billed through and what the cast if
you can figure it out within the budget this year then you change your priorities.
Morrow: vllhy don't you prepare scenarios for us and then also give us a thing of the 24
hour, the annual cost or the projected annual cast for staffing and operation. I think
that makes sense.
Gordan: Sounds goad.
Corrie: The school resource officer agreement?
Gordan: Uh, we are back to renewing the contract far the Meridian school district on
school resource officer, The first thing that Bradford did was ask for another school
resource officer. They have got an alternative school that they are putting out here for
the middle school now. They want an officer full time at that school like they have at the
meridian academy. I gave her the break dawn. They fund 39°/o total cast of the officer
and they get the officer l5°l0 of the year. I still think it is the best program that we have
available, I am not looking for a new officer position, I will take one that I have existing
and transfer him into the school resource program. This would be next September.
Inaudible} their share is $l8,gg0 for four officers and then we foot the bill for the rest. I
think we definitely get our moneys worth out of these guys. A return is there. The
Meridian Schaal district is not happy with the sheriff either they, she asked me if I would
be willing to take over the entire school district because they are going to kick the
sheriff out and ga private security, they are not happy with him either.
Crookston: For $1.8 million we could do it.
Gordan; I was going to say if you guys want to take over the County. But where we do
we basically foot S4°lo of the bill far approximately 25°/~ of the officer. In the summer
time we have the officers a!I ours. But during the school year they have them bell to
bell and they are doing police work but it is a confined to our local area. The schoo!
district has the contract at this time.
Morrow: So what do you need from us?
Gordan: I guess basically just authorize the mayor to ga along with that agreement, I
don't think they are going to change anything.
Morrow: Is this the standard agreement that we had in years past (inaudible) up by one
officer which changes the amounts of dollars?
Gordon: Correct and that is ail and the dates change.
Marrow: And it starts in September?
Meridian City council
March ~ 8, ~ 997
Page 55
Gordon: Yes sir
Crookston: You need to authorize the Mayor and Clerk to sign.
Rountree: I just have a question, it starts in September and runs into our next fiscal
year. Sa I am sure yvu won't miss that in your budget. But sometimes that happens.
Gordon: No, it will be in next year's.
Bentley: I would make a motion that the mayor sign and the Clerk attest to the Meridian
School Resource officer agreement for the upcoming school year starting in September
of 1991.
Rountree: Second
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bentley, second by Mr. Rountree to accept the meridian
school resource officer agreement, any further discussion?
Crookston: I just have a question, it starts in September, doesn't it start in August?
Gordon: Na I think it is listed in September.
Crookston: The start of the 95197 school year started in August. I don't know how it
starts in the fall of 1991.
Gordan: What bearing would that have an the contract?
Crookston: Whether ar not you get money far the time that you have officers out there
serving.
Bentley: Haw about I amend the motion to read for the upcoming school year of 91198.
Gordon: (Inaudible)
Corrie: The motion is changed and amended, it does say for discussion here it is ~/
shall be paid on January 30, 1998 and the balance to be paid May 31, 1998. All thane
in favor of the amended motion? Gppased?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
Corrie: Counselor? Mr. Morrarn~?
Meridian City Council
March ~ 8, ~ 99l
Page 56
Morrow: A couple of issues, update, did we ever get our letter of resignation from Becky
Peterson?
Currie: Yes we got all of that but we need to get her a plaque.
Morrow: And you will follow up an that? Then did we get the answer from Jo with
respect to if we can give our employees a little bit of money for that work comp rebate.
Carrie: As soon as she talks to me either this week or the first of next week, we haven't
gotten any feedback from her yet.
Morrow: Gkay, in your boxes, did John put that proposal in your boxes so you guys
have got that and can make comments concerning that. Next issue is tonight we need
to make a decision in terms of Bab and I met with Lloyd Gerber, he is the owner of the
building over here by the beauty school and Masonic hal! parking lat. His proposal is
approximately $9 a square foot far full service. Naw the issue is that he gave us until
the 1 S#~ to make a decision St, Luke's is also holding for a decision on their building
depending on what it is we decide we are going to da. If we don't lease their building it
sounds like they are going to list it far sale. They agreed to wait until tonight also. Their
cost per square foot full services is $1 ~. So, then the other issues was that we were
supposed to have ar be made aware of what the appraisal of the library was by mid-
month da we have that information?
Carrie: No, we probably won't get it. I just talked to Dale Ownby today and they should
have that out somewhere about the last of this month. However the library is going to
hold until the ~ ~ of June to put sealed bids out.
Morrow: They are going to put it up for option based on the appraisal?
Corrie: 1 guess it is going to be a sealed bid type program and I said I hope that it
doesn't get too screwed up here. (Inaudible) that is where he said they are going to get
the sealed bids to them and then whatever happens after that. So as soon as he gets
the bid he said he would let me know what it is.
Morrow: Yau mean the appraisal.
Corrie: Yes, then they were going to go on a sealed bid basis.
Morrow. Well they can dispose of the property by sealed bid, and use the appraisal as
the floor for that. That is certainly up to them (inaudible) whoever is the highest sealed
bid they award the bid to and they (inaudible)
Corrie: Ul~e can stop that though. He tall me he didn't have anybody that is asking
about it even.
if
k
Meridian Gity Council
March ~ 8, ~ 99~'
Page 57
Bentley: (Inaudible) no parking.
Morrow: I guess the issue is we need to make a decision as to what it is we want to do
then and tell these other folks that they can either be on down the road to other plans
ar that we make the commitment to press ahead with one of those two places because
obviously with, we were originally told by the middle of the month that they would have
us a number an the appraised value here and the value of having that number would be
to see if we even want to mid on that project. But we are not going to get that
information.
Garrie: Not until towards the end of the month that is correct.
Morrow: I guess the question is what da you want to do?
Gorrie: Gary and I talked about, it is 26g6 square feet and, Gary ga ahead and tell
them about what we discussed.
Smith: UVell I guess Mayor and Council my concern is if we move the public works
department moves into another facility that we have adequate roam to do what we need
to do. If the concept is to move Planning and Zoning with Public UVorks into Mr.
Gerber's building I am not sa sure that we have the room that we need. I think without
planning and zoning being aver there we will be all right and we will have one extra
office. I don't know where we are going to end up with the space planning proposal
that is out right now. UVhat recommendations are going to came back from those folks,
I have no idea, not a clue. I was talking to 1Nalt today about what is going to happen
here at this building, is DMV going to move Qctaber 1 or are they staying. I don't want
public works department to move just for the sake of moving. And if we do move I want
to be able to move into a place that we are going to be comfortable in. If we are going
to be there a year or two years or more ether than being a little crowded over here we
have really nice quarters, they are in goad condition. I just want to be sure that when
we do something it is not going to result in same employee concerns for whatever
reasons. I want to be sure that when we move ahead that we are moving in the right
direction.
Garrie: Gary, haw many employees do you have over there now?
Smith: There are ~2 of us. The building inspectors there are ~ building inspectors and
they are only in the office in the morning. They pop in during lunch and pick up
messages and sometimes late in the afternoon. Most of the time they are out and
about.
Crookston: Are they included in the 12?
Meridian City Council
March 1 ~, ~ g9l
Page ~8
Smith: Yes
Corrie: Technically speaking as far as office people and space, the general rule for
comfort and whatever everybody can do with working relationships is Sag square per
employee. If you have ~ 2 that is 36gQ if you have just the 9 the other three are not
there it is 27gg square feet. Yau are talking about ~0~0 square feet over there and you
have got front end, have you taken the front end into consideration yet'
Smith: I made a layout in that building of office space and I think it works okay with just
my group. If we put planning and Zoning though in there it is not going to fit. Nat
utilizing existing office furniture that we have. There would probably be some area that
would have to be in and even in the concept of just planning and zoning or just public
works department we would have to have, I think we are figuring an having same
movable partitions and that kind of office area. if we went to partitions that had built in
modular work stations so to speak perhaps we could get by with less are far an office.
They are very well organized spaces and they are different then the freestanding desk
and chairs and tables, take up less room. Again that would be another expense that in
the interim I don't know if we would want to be making that kind of an expense. Sa if
we move and the Planning and Zoning stays here then I guess there would be a shuffle
of some offices here which is fine. If we move to Mr. Gerber's building I don't think
planning and zoning is going to be able to move with us not in that space.
Corrie: I sent the letter back to the Assessor's office that they are moving out as of
October 1. So I think you all got the letter.
Marrow: well actually we got copies of bath letters that you and I were of the same
mind, apparently we bath slept through the meeting. Because I guess it was our
impression that maybe it was a joint dream we thought maybe they were leaving
October 1 and by virtue of the letter that we received from McQuade I guess we are
under the wrong impression. They seem to think they are staying and we are leasing
back to them. I guess the issue that is critical in terms of making a decision with this
proposition before us is that our departments in a sense have became their own worst
enemy because they can't staff so that they can do their functions. we are burning up
people. Sa we need to be doing something. The P & Z department quite frankly needs
to be doing Lots of things but it needs two more employees before it can do lots of
things. City Clerk's office, City Treasurer's office are each an employee short and all of
those positions we are budgeted for. what it amounts to is if we don't get off the dime
here real quickly we will start either going through people or we will continue to bog
down and not getting stuff done that we need to get done. with respect to, there is not
anything else out there, we ruled out the property of Mr. Johnson's that is on the other
side of the freeway simply because of distance. Here we are now 5 ~/ months into the
new budget year and with the exception of the City Attorney's department we have yet
to see any of the problems that we have tried to solve after October ~ be solved. So it
seems to me that we need to be moving forward in same direction and begin to get
Meridian City Council
March ~ 8,190?'
Page ~9
these things resolved so that we can serve the public in the manner that we need to
serve them and so that our employees have reasonable lives. If that means that we
move just the public works department in the short term in my mind sa be it. That also
puts the onus on us to get something accomplished with respect to City Hall so that we
can bring all of the staff back together. I think that space study is done August ~ sa it is
going to be very candidly probably two years before we would see a City Hail facility.
Bentley: I agree we need to move on with this project. But I see St. Luke's as too far
away and too chopped up of a building. The other building I think is too small, although
we could take part of the department and take it over there. I just don't see the viability
of that moving twice. I would like to see us keep as much of this together as we can. I
know we need to press on. vValt's paints are correct as far as we need the staff. I just
can't agree an these two sites at this time.
Corrie: There is no kitchen area over there and you would have to put in heating ducts
and that?
Morrow. (Inaudible)
Rountree: I have a question about the operation of public works and the inspectors, is it
critical that they be in the same area? Could we
Morrow: No, they just need the access to the computer system, they need the access to
that. They need to pick up messages. The space that we have them now in is not 300
square feet it is more like 30 for 3. That is how critical that space is for them.
Rountree: I guess my next question is where do we stand with IRS and us providing
them office space? Still hanging?
Morrow: I don't think we have had any resolution we have had no updates from Hawley
Troxel.
Rountree: If we just looked at that component for a couple of reasons they seem
somewhat independent because they don't have that much time in the office
apparently. And it may be such that we are going to have to physically separate them
Pram a City building anyway that we look at trying to get them moved now open up
some space for additional people here, hold off until we knowwhat we have in terms of
space and needs from the space study and ga from there. Either that or bite the bullet
and move public warks now knowing it will be far a minimum of a year.
Morrow: Vllith the exception of Daunt the space that we have got the other four building
inspectors in we can't use for office space anyway. Because as I recall three of them
are in a space that is about 4 foot wide and 8 foot or 7 foot deep.
Meridian City Council
March ~ 8, ~ 99l
Page Gg
Rountree: So you really don't solve anything by doing that.
Carrie: Parking would be a major problem over there. This is the thing I had here,
think we talked about that. They have four apartments and a beauty schwa! plus the
Masonic Iodge an the City employees parking over there. I don't know what kind of
parking you are going to need but you are not going to get much over there. You have
the church, they having stuff going on.
Smith: If that parking area that we presently awn was to develop on Pine Street we
could use that for employee parking I suspect. I don't know haw many spaces are
available at that property,
Corrie: I don't know, did you write anything down, I didn't write the spaces dawn.
Morrow. (Inaudible) 10 to 15, some days 3 and some days if you count everything
around there 30. I don't know that there is an accurate number. Your thoughts Ron?
Tolsma: Well, we are going to have do something (Inaudible) temporary place to be
(inaudible)
Morrow: IJllell the thing is you are going to have to move somebody off site. The mere
fact that the license bureau is moving off site doesn't salve your problem. You still have
to move somebody out of this building. The question is you know the employees could
snivel about moving and they could snivel about fighting each other over space or
being tired of not enough folk. Either way in that situation you lose. Because you lose
employees ultimately. I think mast folk in terms of interim manes it is more a state of
mind. In the residential business that happens a Iot. Those people make up their mind
they are going to en~ay living in an apartment while their hawse is being built and have
a very pleasant experience. Those people who decide it is going to be a very
miserable experience darn sure make it one and it is a psychological issue from either
side. The question here is that we need to get Mr. Gerber an answer. So, whatever the
answer is we need to do that tomorrow ar at least present him with a proposition of
same sort in terms of if you want to buy a few days worth of time. The other issues are
after that is what are you alternatives and when can you exercise them
Carrie: Gary haw critical is it far the Planning and Zoning and you working? Da you
work pretty close together, I always see you back and forth all the time. It seems to me
that it is pretty critical.
Smith: !t is a daily contact. Of course it is a walk down the hall and visit about
something.
Corrie: vVhat I am seeing is Shari is talking to your staff and vice versa ail of the time.
Meridian City Council
March ~ S, 199
page B~
Smith: A lot of it could be accomplished an the telephone but there are a lot of times
that there is a map involved. A drawing of some kind to Zook at .
Tolsma: (Inaudible)
Rountree: I guess I hear a lot of reasons why we probably can't do what we want to do.
But the bottom line is we need to get some space and get some people on it and get
more efficient. I guess my opinion is if the Gerber property will accommodate public
works we aught to move them over there and we aught to commit to at least a year sa
they can be aver there and be comfortable for a year, My guess is they will be there
longer than that. If we don't do that then we are looking at next year and then we are
looking at trying to find some space again. ~1llhich may be further away. Gr it may be
across the street but that sounds like that is not even a goad bet now. I can attest to
what you are saying about moving because I had one paint in time had wheels an my
desk, 1 know. But in order to press an and accommodate increased staff and different
work assignments that is what you da. I agree that the St. Luke's building is, it might be
an ideal hang out far the inspectors, they have a lot of roam far parking, equipment
stuff housing stuff in the back if they have to and great parking area. But I don't know
that is a solution there either.
Carrie: I would caution you very seriously about giving them the St. Luke's building
because the IRS is going to jump right down an the top of that one.
Rountree: Well I would suggest that they would lease it because I think you are exactly
right Bob 1 think the IRS is probably going to tell us that unless we are renting
(inaudible) they are our employees.
Tolsma: (Inaudible)
Rountree: !don't know that it is the right solution but it appears to me to be the correct
thing to do right now. It is not an ultimate solution it is not maybe necessarily a
convenient solution. But short of bringing portables out in the back lot and giving up
what little parking we do have I don't see a solution.
Carrie: Gary do you have any preference. We haven't asked you yet.
Smith: IlVell I agree with you I think the St. Luke's building would be difficult to handle.
There is no decision an the library building yet so the only option that presents itself is
the Gerber building. Mlle are going to have some expenses in moving and I don't know
haw that is going to be handled, that hasn't been discussed. He is building some
partitions we are going to have to install a phone system, we hors going to have to
build a front counter and same cabinets. I can move one cabinet that we have got office
supplies in here. So I am not sure how those expenses are handled.
Meridian City Council
March ~ S, ~ 997
Page 6~
Corrie: Have you got the money in your budget to make the move?
Smith: No, it wasn't anticipated, i don't believe it was.
Morrow. Gary we would have to revisit the budget (inaudible)
Smith: INe had the salaries yes
Morrow. (Inaudible)
Rountree: I would think with six months (Inaudible)
Corrie: well to get it off dead center I guess somebody run it up the flag pole and see
how it flies here.
Morrow: I say we lease the building and go for the move, the Gerber building, not the
St. Luke's. The only redeeming feature of the St. Luke's building is the parking lot.
Rountree: Second
Corrie: Motion is made to lease the Gerber building for one year, full service, motion
made by Mr. Marrow, second by Mr. Rountree full service which would be $2~ D~ a
month, $9 a square foot and
Morrow: And we had same question about the exact square footage and he indicated
that he would lease us whatever the measured square footage was. was it not slightly
different than what was on this proposal paper?
Smith: Yes it was decision
Tolsma: As a point of discussion do you want to lease this for one year with an option
for a second year (inaudible)
Morrow. I think you are absolutely right we lease it for the one year and we have the
option for the second year and I think his point of discussion was he was planning on
us leasing it for two years by virtue of how he was adjusting the improvement cost.
(End of Tape)
Corrie: (Inaudible) with an option to re-lease again for the second year, any further
discussion?
Bentley: Yes, I have a question how long is it going to take to get is up and running to
where you can move in?
(Inaudible)
Meridian City Council
March 18,1997
Page 63
Morrow: I would say Glenn it is probably a 30 to 40 day job with the (inaudible) there is
not a lot of stuff to do. It depends on how efficient his contractor is.
Corrie: Any further discussion? Hearing none, alE those in favor? Gpposed?
MGTIGN CARRIED: All Yea
Corrie: we need to give him a call tomorrow.
Morrow: The only other item I have is that for the strategic planning meeting we will be
reviewing the 5 ordinances the traffic Commission, Commission Boards and
Committees, the ethics, the Council president, the budget P & Z and the building
department. I think that I would Eike to if Glenn and the Chief can have their
presentation ready for the communication center if you can have that ready by next
Tuesday then we will discuss it then also. Those would be the items that we would Iook
at.
Corrie:ll~hat time would you like to start that?
Morrow: The dinner time works good.
Corrie: I invited Bill Moore to come and give you about a 10 minute presentation and
Bob Halley is going to be there taa. So 6:36 ar well eat at 6:6D and then start the
meeting at 6:38.
Morrow: That is fine so we are here for dinner at 6:66.
(Inaudible)
Morrow: Sa we wi I I start at 6: 00 then.
Bentley: Shari, I have a question for you. Is there any plans to send the enforcement
officer out to do some talking to the people about completing their landscaping along
the interstate. Arnold Machinery and that strip along there aren't they required to
landscape those berms and stuff?
Stiles: I don't know if he has ever talked to them, they don't have an occupancy permit
that I have signed off on, I guess he can put it on his list, they would be the only ones
out there though.
Bentley: Vllhat about the other two outfits that are there that doesn't have any
landscaping along the freeway?
Meridian city Council
March 18, ~ 99l
Page B4
Stiles: vllho?
Bentley: vVell as you are going into Boise, there is Arnold and I can't think of the other
two now. Anyway, I spoke to him a little bit about it today and he said he wasn't sure
what the requirements are.
Stiles: Arnold Machinery, you talked to them?
Bentley: Na, I talked to Dean just in passing tonight or this morning. Secondly, just let
the Council know thatthe COP's grant is still going an. The second phase of it might be
coming up some time later in the year, there could be a possibility of being approved
far some mare officers. And that is an ongoing project of aver three years. So we will
just keep seeing whether we get accepted. And that is all !have.
Rountree: Gary, Tammy DevVeerd is probably going to be getting a hold of you to try
and establish same time lines on some of the deliverables for Tully Park and those
kinds of things so she can repork that to the Parks and Rec Commission. So we will
probably become a pest but she wants to be able to track that stuff and be able to
report on it. She has kind of taken the front on providing that information to the people
who want to know, primarily the media. Sa I expect that in a day ar #wa she will be
getting a hold of you. Wayne, for want of two right of way easements or agreements
far the Five Mile pathway we are potentially going to loose that project. I suspect the
transportation department will be looking at action ar no action on those projects and
probably the end of May or the first part of June if they don't see that they are ready to
ga. That money may very well be re-distributed to other projects that are ready. vlCe
need to get that resolved with Bureau ar Reclamation and Nampa Meridian and
Simunich correct. The plans are ready to go, I think the bid documents are ready to go
it is just a matter of getting the right of way taken care and getting that assurance
probably to Tim so he can get it back to the transportation department.
Crookston: Are we talking about condemnation?
Rountree: I don't think so I think we are just looking at getting an occupancy permit or
an easement for Grassing ar use.
Crookston: From Simunich?
Rountree: Simunich and working out same kind of a joint use agreement ar what not
with the Bureau of Reclamation and a bridge Grassing. That is all I have got.
Tolsma: The Rural Fire Commissioners the last meeting decided they are going to
contact BSU to do a study to figure out what the percentages are for splitting the rural
fire budget and the City budget this coming year. They are trying to get a hold of Mr.
Gib Weatherby down at BSU and he is supposed to get an estimated cost of what they
,.:~
t . ~, ,.
s
k
Meridian City Council
March 18, ~ 99?
Page ~5
want and how they are going to pursue it and how they go about it. Nampa rural and
Nampa city went through one of these and (inaudible). As soon as they have some
figures back together I will (inaudible) share the cost of the study for this thing.
Weatherby gave of a generalized cost of probably less than $2000. Because we can
use somebody else's procedures they have already used. I just thought I would let you
know about that.
Bentley: Which way da we split that the newway or the old way?
Rountree: We will split it however the study comes out.
Carrie: Anything else? I have two things. Gne is the logistics team far the shuttle, the
train, rail demonstration. Shari Stiles is an Team A, this takes in ACHE, Ada Planning,
Raise City, Canyon County, Federal Highway ITD, Meridian and Boise and Union
Pacific. Shari you are on Team A and you are under the statian development, platform
parking facilities, pedestrian roadway connections. The Council needs to we need
somebody from the Council to be on Team F which is funding, is there anybody that
would like to be the Council representative far that logistics team far the funding
designated by the Mayor and Council? The first meeting is going to be Monday March
3~. ~lnaudible} Shari Stiles has, you wii! being an the funding part of it, Shari Stiles will
be on the statian sitings, land use issues. This is the logistics team that brings all of this
together. The first meeting is Monday, March 31 from g to ~. We are in the middle of
this program as you well know. I need somebody from Council designated by Mayor
and Council. Yau guys give me the name and vote it and !will turn it in. Sa Shari and
Glenn?
Marrow: Sa moved
Tolsma: Second
Carrie: Ali #hose in favor? Gppased?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
Corrie: I will give you all of this information. Gne other thing, the State fire school is
going to be in Nampa this year. They are going to have a golf tournament it is an June
12t".111lhat they are doing is going to different cities to see if the would s onsar a hole
Y p
of $~ ~~. Coeur d'Alene, Pocatello, Twin Falls, and somebody else has already said
yes. They want to know if Meridian would be interested and show same support far the
ire departments. So I said I would bring it up to you and see what you want to do.
Marrow: That is fine with me.
Rountree: Got it in your budget?
Y
Meridian City Council
March ~ 8, ~ 99l
Page G6
Tolsma: Yes
Carrie: ! will enterkain a oration that we allow the $~ 5~.
Tolsma: Sa maved
Marrow: Second
Carrie: All thane in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: Ail Yea
' .
1~
Carrie: That is all i have unless you have something else. Entertain a motion to
adjourn.
Rountree: So maved
Tolsma: Second
Carrie: All those in favor? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All Yea
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 12:a5 A.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
APPROVED:
RT D. CORRIE, MAYOR
ATTEST:
~~~~{,,i~rrrr~r~t~~`~ f~
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~~ti ~~
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.r
IAM G. BERG, JR., CITY LE K ~~~
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~, ~.
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~~ ~, ,
"~~, ~ ,~~
~~ff1~~~i ii4~1~1
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL
AGENDA
TUESDAY, MARCH 18, 1997 - 7:30 P.M.
CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS
MINUTES OF PREVIOUS MEETING HELD MARCH 4, 1997: /~~J~i'ov'~=
1. TABLED MARCH 4, 1997: ORDINANCE #753 -LID 97-1: ~~1~"ot~e~
2. PUBLIC HEARING CONTINUED FROM MARCH 4, 1997: REQUEST FOR
ANNEXATION/ZONING TO 1-L BY ~fCHAEL AND MICHELLE MURASKO:
3. PUBLI HEARING CONTINUED FROM MARCH 4, 1997: REQUEST FOR
ANNEXATION/ZONING TO I-L BY PROPERTIES WEST INC.:
c;~/ a ~vne ~prPp~,~.e~ ~l~ ~~ ~L
4. PUBLIC HEARING ~ONTINUED FROM MARCH 4, 1997: REQUEST FOR A
PRELIMINARY PLAT FOR MEDIMONT SUBDIVISION BY PROPERTIES WEST
INC.: L,y~7Firi.~.te ~'/s-~ ~-f~Z /~r~~l lf~ f-.
5. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A VARIANCE TO REDUCE THE SET
BACK BY MERIDIAN LDS CHURCH:
6. REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A FULL SERVICE
SALON WITH TWO STYLING STATIONS, NAIL TECHNICIAN AND MASSAGE
THERAPY ROOM BY KELLI STEWART: -~ Gc~jp~'-vU-.~ ~'~,~' ~ e/L
Ci//~ ~J v~o VQ ~ Q' c (~l ~rrv
7. REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A PROFESSIONAL
OFFICE BUILDING/ BY JAMES KEL~ER AND REID OLSEN:
8. DOLORES LISBY: DISCUSSION OF PAVING REQUIREMENTS FOR 706 E.
FIRST STREET:
~~'~v-..~ fw-~ ~rwz ~~ ~,~.,:I;r~ ~ r:C 1 ~!~ d ~` Ci~ecfi~
9. MERIDIAN LICENSING SERVICES AGREEMENT: ~~ar'~~-~- r~~~- C%~ ~~`Z'~` f
rn~~
10. NAME CHANGE OF A PORTION OF LOCUST GROVE ROAD: ~~/~~ av-~
11. DEPARTMENT REPORTS:
A. SHARI STILE, PLANNING & ZONING ADMINISTRATOR:
1. DISCUSSION OF RESIDENTIAL CARE FACILITIES:
CITY OF MERIDIAN ~
PUBLIC MEETING SIGN-U1e SHEET MAR 1 8 t997
C[1'Y OF MERIDt~,
~~
(:1TY Ul+ ML:KillIAN
PUB1:iC MEETING SIGN-tix SHEEP ~~~~~~
MAR 1 8 1957
CifY Op r~~xIDLStd
NAME PHONE NiIMBER
~~~ ~jt~~''v~9 S~ w, ~~~ Luw.~n.c~ ~U.~~n[> ''~~-677
~ ~ Esc €~-;/C~~r ti o ~.,--~ ~~~ - j ~~,
~....
~F ~r..
MERIDIAN CITY CQUNCIL MEETING: March ~8 X991
APPLICANT:
ITEM NUMBER,
REQUEST: DEPARTMENT REPORTS
AGENCY CQMMENTS
CITY CLERK;
CITY ENGINEER:
CITY PLANNING DIRECTOR:
CITY ATTORNEY:
CITY PQLICE DEPT:
CITY FIRE DEPT:
CITY BUILDING DEPT:
MERIDIAN SCH4QL DISTRICT:
MERIDIAN PAST QFFICE:
ADA CQUNTY HIGHIt~AY DISTRICT:
ADA CQUNTY STREET NAME CQMMITTEE:
CENTRAL DISTRICT HEALTH:
NAMPA MERIDIAN IRRIGATIQN:
SETTLERS IRRIGATIQN:
IDAHa PQ111lER:
US V1~EST:
INTERMQUNTAIN GAS;
BUREAU QF RECLAMATIQN:
QTHER:
All Materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
~~Gav++D
MAR 1 8 1987
gTYOFMElRIDt~N
~ 448 w. Crestwood
Meridian, Idaho 83 X42
March 3, 1997
Dear Mayor and Council,
I am writing to request that I be put on your agenda at your council meeting. I am
requesting that BeeHive Home #2 at 2321 Kenmere, Meridian be allowed to admit nine
residents in place of eight. I have a very nice large room that meets the requirements of
Facility Standards Licensing and Certification.} We have a couple that would like to share
that room. These are homes for the elderly and would have no impact on the
neighborhood whatsoever. The majority of these residents have very little family or none
in this area. They do not drive so tra~"ic is not a problem. This is the only home we have
that meets the square foot requirements for nine residents.
I hope that you will give me the opportunity to state my position.
Sincerely,
G~~ c~~o ~
Pat Aitchison
Administrator