HomeMy WebLinkAbout8-11-98 P&Z Item Packet
MERIDIAN PLANNING 8~ ZONING COMMISSION MEETING: AUGUST 1 1, 1998
APPLICANT: DAKOTA COMPANY AGENDA ITEM NUMBER: 6
REQUEST: CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR REGIONAL SHOPPING CENTER
AGENCY
CITY CLERK:
CITY ENGINEER:
CITY PLANNING DIRECTOR:
CITY ATTORNEY:
CITY POLICE DEPT:
CITY FIRE DEPT:
CITY BUILDING DEPT:
MERIDIAN SCHOOL DISTRICT:
MERIDIAN POST OFFICE:
ADA COUNTY HIGHWAY DISTRICT:
ADA COUNTY STREET NAME COMMITTEE:
CENTRAL DISTRICT HEALTH:
NAMPA MERIDIAN IRRIGATION:
SETTLERS IRRIGATION:
IDAHO POWER:
US WEST:
INTERMOUNTAIN GAS:
COMMENTS
SEE ATTACHED MINUTES FROM 7/14/98
BUREAU OF RECLAMATION:
OTHER:
All Materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
MERIDIAN PLANNING ZONING COMMISSION
JULY 14, 1998
PAGE 18
De Weerd: Mr. Chairman? I move that we move... or ask that the Assistant City
Attorney to provide Findings of Fact and Conclusions.
Smith: Second.
MOTION CARRIED: All aye.
MacCoy: Mr. Hanson, it will be moved forward.
(RECESS TAKEN)
ITEM #17: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT
FOR A REGIONAL SHOPPING CENTER BY DAKOTA COMPANY, INC-
SOUTHEAST CORNER OF EAGLE & FAIRVIEW.
MacCoy: Is the applicant here this evening?
LARRY DURKIN, 380 E PARK CENTER BLVD, BOISE 83706. WAS SWORN
IN BY ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY.
Durkin: My name is Larry Durkin, I'm the president of Dakota Company Inc. of
Boise. I'm here tonight on behalf of Hermes Associates, asking you to approve
our conditional use application for the family center at Meridian. The project will
include about 70 acres. I will turn around and show the audience the plan in just
a moment, but first I will show it to you, okay. The project as stated on the
intersection of Fairview Ave and Eagle, this is Highway 55 it's an area we have
intentions for a theatre, an entertainment area on the far east end of the project.
We are proposing a warehouse club store in this area, similar to a Costco or
Sams Club. We have development in this area that includes an office supply
superstore, a Shopko store, a general merchandise discount department store.
Apparel and linens going into this area. Then I need a road near the Blue
Cross/Blue Shield and in that area we are happy to say we have a new retail
grocery operation that is coming to the area, with a 65,000 square foot store. We
have a large sporting goods store that will be going into this end of the project.
And then on the project furthest to the south we have a consumer electronics and
similar related type of retail uses. I'm going to take a moment and show the
audience, is that okay?
MacCoy: Sure, go right ahead.
Durkin: In addition to the uses I have talked about in the retail area. We have a
series of pad uses on the perimeter of the project and they are...they include a
sit down family restaurant, some fast food, a financial institution. We have a
copy printing operation, and I guess I would just say they are the traditional types
of pad uses you would see in a development like this. Some new tenants to the
area and some are expanding within the area. The former owners of the
MERIDIAN PLANNING ~ ZONING COMMISSION
JULY 14, 1998
PAGE 19
property obtained a conditional use permit for a shopping center use, but we are
required to ask to seek a separate conditional use permit for the actual
development and that's why we are here tonight. Every effort has been made on
our part to meet the city ordinances relating to this type of project. We have
exceeded the landscape areas required in the ordinance. We have exceeded
the set back requirements required in the ordinance. We will be applying for
pylon sign approval at a later...
(END OF TAPE)
Durkin: Completed. The conditional use application doesn't require that
information at this time, only the location of those, which are indicated in your
packages. Beginning with my comments on the staff report my... usually the way
I do it here, I go through the staff report I have very few comments if (...we're in
full agreement and then I will take a little more time where we would like to
discuss some areas. As far as the fire department report, we will meet and
exceed all fire codes and follow their comments. The central district health report
will meet or exceed the comments of central district health. The storm water
management report, we will meet or exceed those comments relating to storm
water management. Police department report, while the police department made
no specific comments we expect to meet or exceed all of the codes in that area.
Mr. Freckleton's report will take a little bit more time. What I normally do is, I'd
like to just go quickly through what we are in full agreement on and then I'll take a
little bit more time in some of the other sections, but as far as his staff report the
general comments section 1-10, We are in full agreement on those. I'll be happy
at the end to answer questions relating to those if you would like, but we are in
agreement to the... his suggestions and recommendations. In the section of the
report labeled Site Specific Comments, I'm going to hit those one by one here.
Our. use, the shopping center use is listed as an allowed use in the conditional
use permit obtained in 1991. I presume you have copies of those in your
packets. I did bring that along with me tonight if anyone would like to see that.
The property has always had several large signs on display which clearly state
the intended use. As part of a conditional use the city may impose additional
conditions which we agree with. In addition the city may allow changes in certain
requirements some of which I'll ask for later. As far as the comments in section
3,4&5, we have-we are in full agreement. Comment #6 .states that we are at-
we are kind of pushing the edge on the landscape ordinance. We-by our
numbers we have a 10.2% coverage in the common area/open space. The
ordinance does not say that the areas in the parking lot are questionable and we
feel confident that our plans meet the standards set by the City. An area we are
having a problem, it relates to his comment #7 and that's regarding the trees.
Our plan shows 979 (3") caliber trees, which is short of the ordinance. Our
landscape architect has had trouble finding space for an additional 317 trees.
We will provide a plan identifying the species and the size of each tree and their
specific location when we submit our detailed landscape plan. You have the
authority to improve or reduce the amount of trees and tonight we are going to
MERIDIAN PLANNING~D ZONING COMMISSION
JULY 14, 1998
PAGE 20
request that you do so. I do want to say that it isn't a matter of saving money on
the trees. We would be happy to put those trees in other areas what we find is
that it's a maintenance problem to have that many trees in a project and we are
looking at the viability of the tree being healthy and growing in some of the other
areas. We can talk about that a little bit further in a moment. As far as this
comment #8 the comments aren't consistent with the ordinance. We may be
able to add trees in some of the areas of the parking lot, but again, we are
concerned about the trees being-trees are nice, dead trees aren't and it's difficult
to keep them alive in some areas. Our landscape plan far exceeds any other
commercial project in the city. No other development can compare with the
overall amount of planting that we are proposing, it's just a large development. I
admit that there is a large parking area, but the ratio of parking spaces per
square foot of development is less than the Fred Meyer., it's less than the new
Albertson's grocery store, the ratio is lower than any Intermountain Sports and
it's lower than the new Home Depot. We're putting all these types of uses into
one project on a state highway just off of I-84 and we will need a large parking
area to serve the customers of ADA and Canyon counties. Comment #9 is fine
with us. #10 the engineer encourages a wider landscape berm along Fairview
Ave and Eagle Rd. We're showing a 20 foot berm. To give you a comparison
with some other properties in Meridian, this is 13 feet wider than the new
Hollywood Video store that's open. We are not familiar with an ordinance
requiring more than twenty feet and we are hoping with the over all plan that 20
feet will be agreeable to you. In # 11 the comment there is that the developer
must submit detailed sign plans with the application. Well, the application
doesn't actually require that, the application requires that we show a plan similar
to this with the sign locations marked, but as far as the detailed plans we'll be
providing those through the signed permit process and will be back in front of you
to discuss that in detail at a later date. As far as comment #12, we have read the
ordinance and I find conflicts in what is required in different sections of the
ordinance book. The off street parking ordinance requires a four foot landscape
area adjacent to residential areas. The city engineer sites the planting strip
ordinance, which escaped me in the book, but he did cite where it is located. Our
planning and development we have been relying on the off street parking
standards, however, the additional buffer zone that we are applying for adjacent
to the residential properties is ten feet and we are asking for that approval
tonight. As far as the other comments in section 12 as it related to a masonry
wall, and I'm going to walk over to the plan again. There was a suggestion that
you consider a requirement for a masonry wall running all along the project.
There is a wooden fence along here now and the engineer thought an eight foot
high masonry wall would offer more screening. That's really not an acceptable to
us for a couple of different reasons. To my knowledge there is no other zone site
that has such a wall requirement. The back wall we find is unattractive, it's
expensive to maintain, and frequently it looks bad, it's a graffiti attraction. If the
fence is six feet high or eight feet high, it-from our site line studies there is not a
difference in the visibility from the adjoining residential areas. The comments
that the fire-that a wooden fence and a 10 foot landscaping area might be a fire
MERIDIAN PLANNING ~ ZONING COMIvIISSION •
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PAGE 21
hazard, the fire department makes no comments about it being a fire hazard in
their review. In my experience in developing more than a 100 such projects
throughout the west, I have no experience in that being a fire hazard. There is
no ordinance requiring a masonry fence and to my knowledge none exist under
these circumstances anywhere in Boise or Meridian. Comment #13, we've
provided the utility and lighting plans to the city and will be glad to work with the
staff to meet all of the codes required. I did bring those with me, again tonight if
anyone has questions. #14 we do not intend to subdivide the property the
reference the engineer refers to is for our internal planning purposes. There is
no intention of subdividing that's all-will remain one parcel. #16 we really hope
to gain approval for the overall project tonight. We agree to come back on a
building by building bases for any drive-thru that we have on the project. The
details provided for the Shopko store architectural theme and materials/colors will
flow throughout the rest of the shopping center. We hope the staff will be given
the go ahead to work with us on each building permit application. We are okay
with #17, 18, & 19. And frankly, I might just ask the city attorney aquestion-I
really had-I don't understand what comment #20 is, I'm not familiar with that,
maybe you can answer that later. But, I'm not prepared to say that comment #20
is okay, because I just don't -Oh, I'm sorry I had the wrong-confusion here. As
far as the scale on the plan I believe it is correct, if it isn't we will correct it. There
is another question I have later. As far as the ingress/egress for #21 will show
tha# on our building permit plans and #22 will provide this during the building
permit process. We're okay with #23. A big area of concern for us is comment
#24 in the staff report for the people in the audience may not have the staff report
available to them. The comment here addresses the loading docks and the back
of the project and we feel it is a big concern to the adjacent property owners, but
I would like to talk about it a little bit. The engineer uses the example of Home
Depot in Boise and I think that is an extreme example. And that the use requires
a constant use of heavy equipment outside of their building. Home Depot had to
change the zoning from office use to retail use for a home improvement store
and in that process concerns were raised and Home Depot promised to keep it
quiet, they broke their promise. From what I understand, they have corrected the
problem, but this property has been approved for retail center long before there
were adjacent residential uses. In fact, the industrial zoning that underlies the
existing conditional use would imply more noise than our intended use ever
would. All of the trash compactors are internal to the building, so they are quiet;
that will be shown in the building plan but it's the same type of trash compaction
that you will find in the back of the Fred Meyer store it's within their store. There
will be dumpster in back of some of the smaller shops and that will be shown on
the plan but there won't be any compactors exposed to outside noise to the
general public. I will say that the normal operations of the loading dock area are
between lam and 3:30pm. Shopko, the food retailer, and others post that on
their dock, but I also know from my experience that there are cases of later
deliveries, depending on the season and depending on the needs of the tenant.
It's real difficult for us to restrict the hours of operation for the loading dock. On
the other hand, we manage the shopping center, the day to day operations of the
MERIDIAN PLANNING ZONING COMMISSION •
JiILY 14, 1998
PAGE 22
center, the sweeping, the trash pickup, these types of things. We have full
control to restrict the trash pickup from within certain hours and we have control
to restrict the sweeping of the shopping center to certain hours, but as far as the
operation of the retail stores, we don't have that control. We are asking for you
to look at our design and our building permit and believe us, it is completely
different than the Home Depot operation. We are okay with # 25. We are okay
with #26. #27 is my area of confusion. I don't know what that comment means
it's a-so I'm not prepared to say yes or no. I just don't know what that means.
Maybe I could ask -
Prior: You could ask.
Durkin: Can I ask?
MacCoy: Bruce would you enlighten him.
De Weerd: No.
MacCoy: No, what?
De Weerd: Our assistant attorney is probably more qualified to answer that.
Prior: Sir, what that basically says is that this is a recommendation from Mr.
Freckleton and he took the liberty of noting that a conditional use permit will be
subject to review. If in fact we grant you this conditional use permit it's subject to
review, we give you 10 days notice and then we bring you in and say you have
done something that we don't agree with, either you remedy this situation or we
revoke the conditional use then precede with whatever action the city deems
necessary against you to correct that violation. That's really what that means.
That's something that is subsequent that will be included if in fact this
commission decides to approve this conditional use permit, that will be a term of
condition that you will be understood that there is-that's hov+~just to notify you
of the action that we may take if there was some type of problem. That is all that
applies to.
Durkin: Mr. Prior is that part of the city ordinance procedure.
Prior: Well, that doesn't -and that brings up, that is a typical city standard. That
brings up another---
Durkin: Is this a standard city deal? Is it unique to this project.
Prior: No, no and in fact, some of these conditional use permits we passed today
I didn't include that provision, I included the provision that we will just notifying
the applicant that their conditional use is going to be reviewed is all that is
necessary. Sometimes the 10 days, sometimes I don't, a lot of times it depends
MERIDIAN PLANNIN~ND ZONING COMMISSION •
JULY 14, 1998
PAGE 23
on the commission, a lot of times it's whatever I include in that. I should point
something else out to you. I noted that you did mention that---is that something
in the ordinance, you have said that a number of times tonight and just for a
clarification for you, on a conditional use permit we are not necessarily required
to follow the ordinance in every single instance, in fact, we can go above and
beyond the ordinance and every single one of these items you have said and
because this is a conditional use permit we have the authority to do that sir. As
far as the sign ordinance is concerned, if we decide to impose something stricter
than the ordinance we can in fact do that, because this is a conditional use
permit we can impose any restrictions the commission deems necessary. Just
for clarification, it doesn't mean they are going to, it's just for clarification.
Durkin: As a point of clarification and I have taken more than 20 conditional uses
through the city. I acknowledge that right in my opening that you have that right.
I am familiar with that procedure.
Prior: Yeah. Alright.
Durkin: #28 the agencies have had adequate time to review our application. The
engineer require ---recommends a delay on this in order to here comments back
from ACHD, but we have to gain separate approval from ACHD. In addition,
ACRD now has the approval rights for Eagle road. Rather than continue the
hearing since we are hoping to get started on our building design and our site
engineering, I would hope that you would incorporate the future requirements of
ACRD as part of your approval tonight. We have had an informal meeting with
ACHD. We have delivered a traffic study to them. We have had ---there aren't
any problems that I'm aware of with ACRD. We are scheduled to have a hearing
with them on the 24th of this month. That is my presentation as it relates to the
comments in the staff report. I would like to just ... I have mounted on the board,
I have a elevation drawing of the Shopko store for this project. A couple things,
I'm pleased with the store design. I have traveled to three of the stores and
looked at them, so I can tell you, I know what they look like and they look nice.
This elevation doesn't tell me I can't display this to you tonight in a way that truly
represents. We have submitted a color rendering and the color sample chips to
the city, but as far as my ability to show you something tonight, this is the only
thing I was able to gather. I can talk you through this a little bit and I'll turn it
around and show the audience in a minute. The exterior-we have a front
elevation drawing here. Let me step back a moment. The Shopko store that is
located at Fairview and Milwaukee Street in Boise was built in 1983. That
vintage changes and changes and changes, in fact if any of you have been to the
east side of Boise and seen the one on Broadway, you'll see that it's a little
different than the one at Fairview and Milwaukee. Shopko is a 30 some year old
company and they've been evolving and trying to improve and upgrade their
stores as the years go by. This store is what they call their series 2000 this is a
nicer looking-I think the nicest looking Shopko store that they have ever come
up with, but it's a upscale store with brick, split faced block, and tile. The colors
MERIDIAN PLANNIN~ ZONING COMMISSION •
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PAGE 24
are blue and gray with blue metal trim. Signage I~think minimal on the building.
There is a little bit more glass, it's a far fancier design than the one on Fairview
and Milwaukee. The interior of the store is completely different, a lot more like a
department store with wood floors broken up differently and it's a higher end
general merchandise discount department store and I think you would agree.
The side elevations are really not relevant since they will have buildings next to
them, although this plan shows a typical side elevation. I think what is important
is the rear elevation that will be facing some residential areas. The rear elevation
of the store-there are three loading docks in the back of the building. My
experience with this tenant is that one of the loading docks is used on a regular
bases. The others are used during seasonal times of the year, special deliveries.
The docks are recessed. The colors and materials of the entire back of the
building are similar to the front, the same types of colors---the same colors and
the same types of materials that I used in the front of the building. Those are
really my comments on the Shopko store and I will happily answer any more
questions that you may have.
Borup: Sir, just a quick one on the Shopko. Location, did you point out the
location or did F miss that.
Durkin: I will. The Shopko store is 96,900 square feet and it's located on
Fairview Ave. I have a scale with me somewhere tonight or ruler, but it's off of
the Eagle Road I would guess about 400 feet.
Borup: Thank You.
Durkin: The. docks on the back of the Shopko store are about 135 feet from the
rear property line.
Borup: And that's parking between the docks and the subdivision. Employee
parking or something?
Durkin: Yeah, it's intended. Anything else?
Borup: Well, I've got a list of things.
MacCoy: Why don't you start off then.
Borup: Okay, Maybe I'll save---you went through quite a list of tenants and are
most of those firm at this point, or some of those conceptual or---it looks like you
probably named every anchor store almost. Is that pretty much the status your
at?
Durkin: Actually, I only named one anchor store. I will rely on the tenants to
make their announcements but we have...
MERIDIAN PLANNIN~ ZONING COMMISSION
JULY 14, 1998
PAGE 25
Borup: Well that is what normally happens, that's why I was wondering.
Durkin: We have a number of firm transactions. I'm speaking Shopko's name
with their permission tonight. They wanted to do a press release today, they
were unable to get it together and they call and asked me to freely use their
name.
Borup: Okay, but it sounded like most of the others are fairly firm at this point.
Durkin: Mr. Commissioner, I want to be clear on that fairly firm is a very good
description, we have some that are firm and many that are fairly firm.
Borup: Well, I understand how it goes in these situations. We did not receive a
copy of the original conditional use permit. At least I didn't in my packet.
Smith: I didn't.
Borup: So that-You had mentioned earlier saying we were familiar with that.
So, I guess we are going to have to say we are not. It may be appropriate if you
would, I think rather than use trying to read it now, is there anything in that you
think would be pertinent to point out.
Durkin: Sure.
Borup: One of the questions I guess I would have was transferability.
Durkin: It's transferable. I'll provide it to the... Have you read it?
Borup: I have not. I think this was the one, was this one that was back to 1991;
did you say?
Durkin: Yes. There was an ordinance.
Borup: That was before the time of everyone here. All the commissioners,
rather.
Prior: Mr. Chairman, may I make an inquiry?
MacCoy: Yes sir.
Prior: Sir, it does say in that conditional use permit, obviously I wasn't here in
1991 either; does it say in that conditional use permit specifically that it is
transferable to another applicant, sir'?
Durkin: If it does not say that clearly in here we have gotten an opinion from
Cumer Green, who has talked to your city attorney, Wayne Crookston, and
gotten an opinion to that effect. I believe it says it in here but in addition to
MERIDIAN PLANNING~D ZONING COMMISSION
JULY 14, 1998
PAGE 26
covering that base prior to purchasing the property, we got an opinion from
Wayne Crookston to that effect. Is he still the city attorney? He was at that time.
Borup: Yes, that would be correct. Was there anything in there that you felt that
would be pertinent to point out?
Durkin: Well, I think it is pertinent to point out that it was passed unanimously.
It's a planned general development conditional use permit. It's specifically states
that the uses would be harmonious with and accordance with the comprehensive
plan as amended, that the zoning ordinance has amended, but it does require a
conditional use to allow the intended use that we have. It does state that it has to
have utilities, which it now has. The possible proposed uses would not create
excessive additional requirements at public costs for public facilities and
services. They don't.
Borup: It sounds like most standard items.
Durkin: It specifically allows for a shopping center. The approval of Findings of
Facts and Conclusions of Law were approved unanimously and signed by the
Mayor.
Borup: A shopping center was mentioned specifically?
Durkin: Yes.
Borup: Is it your understanding that the reason for the conditional use is because
looking at retail usage rather than industrial.
Durkin: Yes.
Borup: Which is what the original zoning was.
Durkin: Yes. The original plan for the area was done by Gemtone, a Boise
based corporation. They developed the industrial park across the street with the
BlueCross/BlueShield. They came in for a conditional use permit for that plan
unit development as an office industrial park. They identified this L shaped
property as a commercial shopping center and identified the residential area as a
residential subdivision. They then sold that land to Raymon Yorgason for a
residential construction. They've sold parts of the land across the street to
different industrial and office users. They have sold the L shaped property to us
for a shopping center.
Borup: I think you have covered a good part of the other thing I was maybe
going to request. More so for the benefit of the people in the audience is a little
bit of the history of this property. Thank you, you have covered that from 1991
on. Is there any comment you care to make on-This was originally annexed in
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JULY 14, 1998
PAGE 27
1984, I believe.
Durkin: I don't have that information.
Borup: Okay, well my comments are from what I gained from staff comments, it
was annexed in 1984 as the industrial property. I think intended for some
commercial type of use at that time.
Durkin: It's clearly
Borup: Apparently the residential part came in 1991 at the same time was the
PUD from-
Durkin: The residential development occurred after 1992, 1993 or 1994, in
phases.
Borup: Okay, the other couple of quick comments. Loading areas, you said
typically they are going to be during the morning and through the afternoon
hours. The plan that we have are-How much of this is conceptual? Or is any of
it? Or are most of those buildings these specific designs that you are anticipating
at this point.
Durkin: Most of these buildings are specific designs for specific tenants.
Borup: Okay, so those that are showing the loading docks now are intended to
have loading docks in those areas.
Durkin: That's correct. I'm having a hard time I'm getting distracted with when I
turn this way I hear people out in the hall but I can't ... The loading docks, there
could be some non material changes. For example, if they are facing south right
now, and we come in with a building permit and they face north, there could be
some minor modifications to the outlines of the buildings, in accordance with
conditional use standards.
Borup: But at this point it is anticipated that the loading docks are going to be
necessary for whatever business or anticipated for that use.
Durkin: I can say that the loading docks here, there has been two different areas
and these are fairly well set, they would be here and here. This type of loading
dock could be here or could be here, but there will be one on the back. Shopko's
are specific to that area. The grocery stores are specific going this way. The two
areas with the most active loading docks that you should expect in a center like
this would be the grocery store and the activity is in the morning. I don't know if
you have been to a grocery store in the early morning, but you see a lot of
vendor trucks coming in early in the morning. Eddies Bakery, Miller beer, you
know a lot of them are fifth wheel trailer type of operations. There are a lot of
MERIDIAN PLANNIN~ ZONING COMMISSION •
JULY 14, 1998
PAGE 28
activities in the early morning at a grocery store. ~ On a general merchandise
store like this, you generally get trucks a day, so it isn't 18-20 trucks a day, it isn't
anything like a home improvement lumber type of operation. It's about two trucks
a day, five days a week, but if it's April and they are running a special on Huffy
Bikes and they sell out of them, they put an emergency flash to the distribution
center which is on the other side of Boise out at Gowen Road and the freeway.
They throw a load of Huffy bikes on a truck and they zip it over and if it's 7:30 at
night, they respond that way. If you go to a loading dock in front--back of a
Shopko or Kmart or Fred Meyer, you'll see signs posting that they are closed
after 3:30. Frankly, they do make exceptions for emergency deliveries. It
happens most often between Thanksgiving and Christmas.
Borup: That would seem logical. We had one last question and maybe
clarification on your comment on masonry fencing. You made the comment that
none exist, and I wasn't sure were you referring to there is no reference in an
ordinance to a fence or that the city is not requiring any masonry fencing. I
wasn't sure what your comment was referring to.
Durkin: I'm not familiar with a large shopping center where masonry fence has
been a requirement, for example, I was the developer for the Fred Meyer project,
there is no masonry fence required on that project. That is a combination of
wood or storage buildings, I'm not familiar with it being required in Boise
anywhere with the exception of when Boise square-
Borup: Home Depot.
Durkin: Let me maybe I should be more clear on what I'm talking about as
similar use. If I were coming in tonight and saying this is zoned residential for an
apartment building or office building and I want to build a shopping center, I
would-and the people who were living there bought their houses, built their
houses with the believe that there was going to be additional residential or office
building there and I came in and said I wanted to build a shopping center. I
would do lots of different things differently. I would build to meet their-to satisfy
their needs. So, Home Depot is a rezone, but the masonry wall for this type of
development we don't feel it is a good idea. I've seen it done behind the
Waremart store at Fairview and Milwaukee Street. There were existing
residential homes, they came in and rezoned took down some residences and
built that store. You know what happens you go behind that store and you leave
a semi running and you unload that semi and that goes through the whole
neighborhood. It's a cave back there. I personally don't think it's a good idea
and it's a good design standard. The additional-when you have a none heated
masonry wall, they don't hold up and they look shabby, quickly. If you look
around, go back and drive around the Waremart at Fairview and Milwaukee, take
a look at it and you'll that to be the case right now.
Borup: Okay, I think that clarifies that. What do you feel is the best buffering for
MERIDIAN PLANNIN~ ZONING COMMISSION •
JULY 14, 1998
PAGE 29
that situation, rather than a masonry wall?
Durkin: I like the idea of landscaping of trees. One of the things-we are having
a hard time figuring out what to do with all of these trees. We have extra trees I
can't fit them on this plan. I'm aware that they are about 38 or 40 residences that
back up to our project. If the residences were interested, we would provide some
trees for them to plant. on their side. We have our trees planted to the maximum
density.
Borup: Okay, it looks to me that you have got trees lined right up-I mean it's a
continuous line of trees right now.
Durkin: They are every 12 feet. So I can't get-if I plant them closer than that,
they will die. So, we have the density along the back is maximum. If you are
trying to screen the shopping center, I would be kidding you tonight to tell you
that we can do very much. The people that live in the houses adjacent if they
are in their second story, they will be able to look out and they are going to see
the shopping center. I can't plant anything or build anything to screen that, so
that's just a fact. As far as additional buffering from noise the landscaping has
been our-feel the most successful tool. A combination of Pines and other trees,
is best. In addition, I was going to say is a condition of approval if there were
adjacent property owners that were desirous of trees, we would provide them
trees on their side. Since we can't fit anymore on our side. I'm happy to make
that offer, but I don't know how-I can't force them to plant a tree in their
backyard.
Borup: Is it your understanding that the existing fence is continuous, at this point.
Durkin: It is.
Borup: That was all the questions I had at this point, Mr. Chairman, at this point.
MacCoy: Commissioner De Weerd.
De Weerd: At this point, I don't have any questions.
MacCoy: Commissioner Smith.
Smith: I might have one or two. You stated when you were going through this
site specific comments initially-I don't want to beat this masonry fence to death.
You said you felt that this masonry was unattractive. So, the Shopko Masonry is
not unattractive.
Durkin: Well, it is a different thing. Commissioner, are you familiar with a
masonry wall? Can you think of one around the city that you can be familiar
with?
MERIDIAN PLANNING~D ZOMNG COMMISSION
JULY 14, 1998
PAGE 30
Smith: I am very familiar with masonry walls. I'm not so sure that the masonry
wall is the right solution here. I think probably what I would rather see is a some
adequate landscaping back there. I think when the vegetation matures that it will
provide a better barrier. The only thing I'm concerned about with the cedar fence
just is durability and ability to hold up over time. Of course, that is both property
owners' responsibility to maintain that fence. Let's move pass that. I'm more
concerned about the front I'm very concerned about the buffering to the
neighborhood, but I'm also concerned about the landscaping. I look at this site
plan and I see a sea of asphalt here with very little relief from landscaping. I
think one of the problems why you are having trouble getting the extra 317 trees
planted is because you don't have enough landscaping, landscaped areas out
here. There is a minimal separation between Eagle Road, Fairview and your
development. There is minimal breaking up of the parking lot across the whole
frontage on the streets with some landscaped areas and I think both of those
things need to be looked at and addressed.
Durkin: I'd like to just go back to the masonry fence real quick. I think we left
that a little bit untied. There is a difference between the masonry building that's
heated and maintained and not covered by landscaping and anon heated
masonry wall. In my experience in building 79 Shopko stores throughout the
United States and quite a few other types of developments that about a three
year old, free standing masonry wall that's covered by asphalt, it starts to-the
mortar deteriorates, the color, it's difficult to maintain. A wood fence is easy to
maintain, so it last longer and the maintenance is easier on a wood fence than on
an unheated masonry wall. It's a conditional use, the city has the ability to step
in and say fix it, maintain it, that's a tremendous burden on a mile long masonry
wall and it's one that is difficult for me stand here tonight and say "Sure, no
problem, I'll do that." I'm telling you right now that's adifficult-
Smith: Well, I don't agree with you, but I don't want to get stuck on this fence.
Durkin: As far as the separation between Eagle and Fairview, there is one
project in the City of Meridian that I'm aware of that has that separation and that's
Fred Meyer. There is no other project in the city that has that separation, that I'm
aware of. My awareness is from driving all of the streets. I'm aware of you
giving, the city giving a wide range of approvals, I'm aware of time when the city
requires sidewalks and sometimes, they don't. That's past, as we are going
forward today, there is no project of this scope in the City of Meridian with a 20
foot berm, of heavily landscaped berm along the gateway streets of the
community. I think what we are proposing far exceeds the ordinance, which I
understand you have the right to require that, but it also far exceeds any other
type of development in the city. I think it is attractive and I'm very proud of it, I'm
very happy with it. As far as the sea of asphalt, it's a challenge the City of Boise
has areas that they want to reduce and reduce and reduce the asphalt area. It's
a balancing act that we find trying to accommodate the shoppers and having
MERIDIAN PLANNING ZONING COMMISSION
JULY 14, 1998
PAGE 31
them have a place to park and trying to get enough landscaping and this is a
larger tree than you have required in the past and these are-this is a three inch
caliber tree. If we put landscaping areas in the parking lot and if you go and look
at those and in this valley that we have trees planted within the parking lot on
larger scale like this they get hit by snow plows, they're broken, they're cracked
and they die. They are replaced and repaired constantly. You have got an
expense there but it's not sitely. They don't mature with the rest of the
landscaping and it's very difficult to get them to work. If you take out a lot of
parking area you can get it to work. Then I go below that parking ratio that I need
to have a successful shopping center. So we feel we are trying to do our best.
Smith: I think citing bad examples is unnecessarily justification for doing
something a certain way and I think that some of these problem areas are design
problems. They are just poorly designed and not adequate. As far as what has
been done here in the city in the past, I would be lying to you if I sat up here and
told you I was happy with a lot of the projects that I have seen approved by the
city in the past and that is one of the reasons why I express an interest in filling a
vacancy on the commission here. I think with good design that these things can
be addressed and we can end up with a good design. As far as your amount of
parking, I see how many spaces you have and everything, but I don't see
anywhere where you've tabulated the amount of required amount of parking
based on the square footage you are proposing.
Durkin: The required amount of parking for the City of Meridian I believe is four
cars per thousand square feet of development. We are at...
Smith: 6.11?
Durkin: That's correct, 6.11.
Smith: By ordinance, not necessarily what your tenants require to have
adequate parking but by ordinance, you are two cars over per thousand square
feet. So you have exceeded the parking requirement.
Durkin: We have far exceeded the City of Meridian's parking requirement, that's
very common. When we built the Fred Meyer store and that shopping center, we
had a similar parking ratio to this. Your Home Depots are going to have a far, far
greater parking ratio. There is a balance, it's a difficult balance, but I have to
provide-if I design it and built it with three cars per thousand or four cars per
thousand, businesses would fail. We would have a failure of a center, which
isn't...
Smith: Sure. I guess I'm looking for what that right number is.
Durkin: Boise Town Square is a good example. Boise Town Square is a
1,100,000 square feet and have a 4.9 parking ratio. It has certainly been a
MERIDIAN PLANNING ZONING COMNIISSION •
JULY 14, 1998
PAGE 32
success there is no doubt about it, but it's a nightmare as far as finding a place
to park. They bust people from-they rent vacant lots down the streets and it's
been a real challenge for the parking in that area. That's a different kind of
shopping, that's were you go and park and sit all day and this is more of a turn
over type of a shopping center.
Smith: Do you anticipate any kind of business by-consumers come in by mass
transit?
Durkin: Not that I'm aware of. I have no:..
Smith: I mean buses and specifically buses.
Durkin: I would be really surprised, Mr. Commissioner.
Smith: Okay.
Durkin: However, if your question was going to the participating or cooperating
with a bus, as far as coming in to the project, we have always been willing to do
that.
Smith: I don't see any place on here that looks like it was designed for-with that
in mind, that's why I ask.
Durkin: I'm not familiar with the bus system that would service this site from the
City of Boise, but I don't believe that it's available.
Smith: I don't think it comes out that far. As far as phasing goes, how was the
phasing going to evolve here.
Durkin: We would expect to begin construction around December of this portion
of the project. It may be this portion of the project, in December in this immediate
spring. We do not have a construction schedule for this overall parcel but we do
have a construction schedule for some of the uses out in front. I do not have a
construction schedule right now for this portion of the development.
Smith: Okay. That's all I have right now.
MacCoy: Is there any other questions from the commissioners that have popped
up since we have started this.
De Weerd: Well, I might have a comment. You had mentioned that this indeed
will be a gateway to Meridian and we have not had a project of this size so it is
very hard to compare it to anything in Meridian, because we don't have anything.
So, you. will be setting a trend and it is very important to this part of Meridian that
it is attractive. Also to the residents, I'm sure, behind it. On your comment about
MERIDIAN PLANNING yND ZONING COMMISSION
JULY 14, 1998
PAGE 33
the masonry wall, if you wanted to increase the size of that buffer area and add
some more of the trees in that, that might serve as a compromise. What kind of
fencing is there-so you are going with the existing fencing that is there right
now.
Durkin: Mrs. Commissioner, let me ask you, what is your desire with-what
would you like to see the fence wall or buffer accomplish. Because if you gave
me some direction there, if you are looking for a block out of the shopping
center-these aren't going to accomplish that.
De Weerd: I don't think the masonry wall...
(END OF TAPE)
De Weerd: ...area with more landscaping, and I think we have a lot of residents
here that are. going to voice their opinion so we might even appeal to what they
would like to see. But I agree with you mature trees do block out things. They
are visually more attractive than a concrete wall.
Durkin: I guess if I were living here, I would like the noise factor dealt with. That
would be the most important thing to me as a neighbor to a shopping center.
You may disagree with me, but I've gone to most of the shopping centers in this
country, and when you put a masonry wall six feet, eight feet, ten feet a hundred
feet away from a 20 foot masonry wall, and you pull an eighteen wheeler in there
or you put a sweeper through there, it amplifies the noise.
De Weerd: Well, I don't if I was clear. I don't like the masonry wall either. I do
think that you could utilize your buffer with a berm and trees and you can get
more trees on there if you increase your width of a ten foot buffer.
Durkin: Maybe it would be a good idea to let the audience comment on what
their desires are, but that isn't quite true. I can get more plantings, but my trees, I
have to have a 12 foot separation in order for them to grow and do what we want
them to do. So, 1 could get - I could stagger the trees if I made it wider and get
some bushes and trees, but it doesn't accomplish anything as far as visibility. It's
on the other side of the fence from their house so they can't see it. And I don't
know if that would affect the noise. I can modify the back of the building and I
can modify that planter area, but it would reduce that drive lane around the back,
but I would be willing to listen to the comments of the audience tonight and try to
adjust it. But I it would be foolish of me to stand up here and represent to you
that sure we can plant -make it 20 feet instead of ten feet and that's going to
block the buildings when it isn't going to do that. It may help the noise slightly but
De Weerd: One other question I had was the trash. I know that you had
indicated that you would be supplying that information with the building permit.
MERIDIAN PLANNIN~ ZONING COMMISSION
JULY 14, 1998
PAGE 34
But I think probably most of the people here would be interested where the trash
is going to be.
Durkin: As a condition of approval, I'd encourage you to impose the condition
that no trash pick up occur after 7:00 p.m. at night. We'll contract with the local
company, and the trash pick up will occur. We have complete control over that.
It will occur during daylight hours, and that just isn't a problem for us. The large
buildings, the grocery store, the Shopko, the apparel store, the membership
warehouse club store, the way they handle their trash and a way to look at this
you can drive right up on the street and look real close, is drive behind the Fred
Meyer store is the street that wraps around that. The trash is inside the building.
There's no -behind the Fred Meyer store itself, there's no trash dumpster or -
there's metal part of the building that the trash goes in there from the inside of
the store, the collection truck backs up, picks up that unit, drives away and puts a
new unit on it or it empties the compacted trash that's already been compacted in
the store into the pick up. But if you look at an pld store, if you go behind an old
grocery store, an older Albertson's store, an older unit like that you'll see big
dumpsters or you'll see outside trash compactors but it's not a safe way to do it
anymore. It's not a clean way to ~o it, and it's not the way we're doing it here.
For the small stores, behind the Hallmark Card, for example, you may have a
small dumpster you know the blue dumpster that is picked up once a week, twice
a week depending on the need. If it's a food place, they would pick it up daily. If
it's a card store with boxes and that type of thing, they'd pick it up on an as need
basis. But we control the time. We contract with those people, and we can
definitely control the hours that that's picked up so it isn't being picked up in the
middle of the night. The larger stores, the food stores, and particularly I think it's
real important that all the trash is self contained in the building. It's not out in the
back in the dumpster. Once the building is open. During the construction you
are going to face some of those issues.
De Weerd: I just have one more question. On your trees you do have a
significant amount of trees and plantings. I did read on your plans that you have
a one year guarantee on those. After that who replaces the tree if it dies?
Durkin: We do. lt's a condition of our approval that we have these trees. So as
a condition of that approval, we have to continually maintain and replace the
trees. That's my understanding. That's the way most cities work and when we
worked on our other projects in Meridian -
De Weerd: Well, it's always assumed, but I just wanted to make sure.
Durkin: That's that little sentence that the city attorney was clarifying, paragraph
27 I think it was. Yeah, that would be if we had trees that didn't survive, the city
can call us in with a ten day notice and say replace your trees or you lose your
permit to occupy the premises.
MERIDIAN PLANNING ZONING COMMISSION •
JiJLY 14, 1998
PAGE 35
Smith: You had a question on the comment about the scale, and your drawings
noted as one inch equals a hundred feet, but your graphic scale is drawn as one
inch equal two hundred feet. I think that is what the comment was regarding.
MacCoy: Any other comments from commission?
De Weerd: Just if staff wanted to make any comment at this point.
Freckleton: Mr. Chairman, Commissioner De Weerd, I'd like to wait to hear from
the audience.
MacCoy: Ariything else you want to comment on?
Durkin: I guess I want to comment on thing. A couple of the commissioners
mentioned that if you would have been happy with the way things have been
done all these years in Meridian, you wouldn't be up here tonight. I guess I want
to say that as a developer, I live in Boise. I've developed two significant
shopping centers in this valley where we have lead a trend in both centers from
tasteful signage that's well accepted in the neighborhood, significant
landscaping, berms and design. In both centers the fire exceeded the code. In
both projects, one is the South Shore Shopping Center at southeast Boise at
Apple and Park Center. There's K-Mart and an Albertson's store there. We
haven't won any awards, but in my opinion it's an award winning center. The
landscaping is matured, and it's a great project. The adjacent property owners
all the way around are generally please with the project, and at the beginning we
had to work out some bugs on hollow lighting shined in their yards. Something I
never thought of before. Now we know all about that. I went and read the
newspaper in a man's backyard in the middle of the night just from the lights a
block away. So we figured out how to control that. We're experienced with this.
We know how to maintain our landscaping and we do a great job. The center will
be a proud cornerstone for your city, and if you look at the type of landscaping
that will plant, the quality of the construction that we do, I feel that it will be the
nicest project in the City of Meridian. And I feel it will far exceed any of the
previous project. Our design is based on the future and not on what's been done
in the past. I'd like to come back and respond to -
MacCoy: You will.
Durkin: And while I sit down, I'd like to leave the original condition use with the
city attorney for - is that okay? And you can pass it down?
(Inaudible)
MacCoy: This is an open public hearing. Is anybody from the audience want to
get up and make their statements?
MERIDIAN PLANMNG~ ZONING COMMISSION •
JULY 14, 1998
PAGE 36
MAYNARD MARTIN 3668 E. JUDICIAL WAS SWORN BY THE ASSISTANT
CITY ATTORNEY.
Martin: First of all, I wondered if I could ask the commissioners do any of you
have a major retail mall behind your house? And I would like to ask the
commissioners and the city attorney and the city clerk, would you like a major
mall behind your house?
Berg: Do you want me #o answer that, no.
Martin: Would you?
Smith: No.
Martin: Would you like a major retail shopping center behind your home?
De Weerd: Well, hadn't thought about it, but right now I have thistle blowing into
my backyard, so I would say yes today.
Martin: Okay. Keith Borup?
Borup: No, I do not live near one, but I am not in an industrial zone where my
house is either. And so that was the choice I made.
Martin: Right and it sounds to me like the residential didn't come until after the
fact that it was already commercially zoned, right? So see a lot of us when we
moved in there, were hoodwinked. So that's what you're dealing with here, right?
Homeowners that are fired up that this guy wants to come in who does not have
a regional shopping center behind his home and wants to build one behind our
home and wants us to be happy campers. I don't care what kind of berm or
trees, I say no to the shopping center. I'm not very affluent so I just can't -it's
harder for me to just pick up and go elsewhere. Do you see what I'm saying? So
all I'm saying is you guys be considerate of us homeowners that are sitting here
who do not want a big nasty Shopko. I don't care what colors you paint it. What
new twentieth century -you don't want that sitting behind your home property.
You see what I'm saying? Because it's going to take our property values and it's
going to plummet them. And they are going to go in the dirt. Because you
wouldn't want live behind one, so you're not going to go over there and look to
buy some place and I don't think you would either, Mr. Borup or Mr. Prior. So all
I'm saying is be considerate and mindful of us homeowners that live there.
That's all I have.
Borup: Mr. Martin, I had a couple of questions. I think a lot of what we do is try
to get a feel for people's whole attitude and where it comes from. How long have
you lived there?
MERIDIAN PLANNING ZONING COMMISSION •
JULY 14, 1998
PAGE 37
Martin: Going to two years.
Borup: When you moved in, was there a sign down there on this property talking
about the future shopping center coming in?
Martin: Yes, but there was no indication given that it was going to be something
this humongous.
Borup: What did you visualize was going to be on this property?
Martin: We were thinking more little shops and doctor type offices.
Borup: Okay. Thank you.
MacCoy: Anyone else?
DON BRYAN 2070 N. LOCUST GROVE WAS SWORN BY THE ASSISTANT
CITY ATTORNEY.
Bryan: Well commissioners, I have a shopping center in my backyard and I was
here in '91 and watched this thing go through, this Crossroads and it was
amazing then at the time how they could put a retail surrounding residential, but
that was our city fathers at work and I don't think anybody was here, but Mr.
Freckleton and myself and Will might have been here. It was always zoned that
way. I feel sorry for the homeowners. I wouldn't want it in my backyard. I lived
next door to Fred Meyer. I worked with Larry Durkin before. He developed Fred
Meyer. They do a good operation. I'm not taking sides, but I have trouble feeling
sorry for the homeowners when they move in after the fact. However I think
there's some things that need to be addressed that is going to affect them, like
the buffering, the truck docks, the trash. In my experience, I live 500 feet away
from Fred Meyer and I listen to those trucks idle all night long. He can say the
trucks don't come in at certain hours and only certain trucks and so many trucks
a day, but he has no control over that. When they pull in there, and you hear
something outside and you figure out it's a truck idling all night long waiting for
the store to open 500 feet away, then these people are going to be affected by
that. Now I think the block wall is something that is going to make that worse.
And I think landscaping is the best way to go, but in my experience of living next
to a shopping center, there is also other things that come to mind and a lot of it is
litter. The traffic is more, the foot traffic is more and the litter is everywhere, and
the parking lot cleaning, when they clean the parking lots, they go around with
the big vacuum truck and they suck it all up and make a bunch of noise and it
goes right straight up in the air and blows over wherever off the lot, and these
things need to be addressed. And I guess the only reason I'm talking tonight is
to inform all the property owners in the surrounding area to stay informed with the
project. Work with the developer and come to the city council meeting and voice
your opinion and don't stop here and protect your rights as property owners. And
MERIDIAN PLANMNt~ND ZONING COMMISSION
JULY 14, 1998
PAGE 38
I guess the only question I have for the commission is with this size of
development going in here and what it's going to bring, do we want another
Emerald and Milwaukee and all the problems in traffic over in Meridian in the
future five years down the road. And I think I know the answer to that question.
Do you have any questions of me? Thank you for your time.
SHERRI JAYNES 3510 E. EISENHOWER WAS SWORN BY THE ASSISTANT
CITY ATTORNEY.
Jaynes: As far as the zoning, we've been in our house about two and a half
years. When we purchased, we were told that that is industrial zone. They did
not say that is retail zone or were we given any indication of that. And the zoning
may have been retail, but we were never told that. There may or may not - I
don't remember, have been a sign on the corner there but we were never ever
ever in a million years given any indication there would be a shopping center of
this volume there with the noise, the traffic, the problems, the trash and
everything else that comes along with a shopping center of this size. If there was
to be a center there, the sign that they did have at one point was like a little
neighborhood shopping center. We were thinking small retail shops.- We were
not thinking grocery stores and warehouses and Shopko's. Never in a million
years would we have guessed that or we never would have bought there, and I'm
guessing that most of the people in the subdivision would feel the same way, and
as far as industrial zoning being louder and that may or may not be true, but
Coor's doesn't have trucks loading outside their plant on the other side of our
subdivision at three o'clock in the morning or at five o'clock in the morning. They
are there pretty much eight to five Monday through Friday, so they don't bother
us at night. And that's industrial zone as well. So I mean there's a big difference
between industrial and retail. At least as far as what our other neighbors on the
other side as far as their traffic and their noise because we don't have that kind of
problem with them at all, and from my bedroom which faces Eagle Road, but is
not on the very edge of the subdivision. I'm four or five houses in, t can hear
Eagle Road from my bedroom, and I cannot imagine what it's going to be like to
have an Albertson's or some other sort of grocery store right out my back window
outside my bedroom at night while I'm trying to sleep, and I'd just like everybody
to think about that a little bit when they are thinking about the quality of life of the
people that do live there.
MacCoy: Any questions for her?
Borup: You had mentioned that you didn't visualize something this size. I think
we've got 72 acres. What type of thing -did you think just a lot of open space
and parks around or -
Jaynes: We didn't know that this was alt going to be one owner, because at that
point there was - if there was a sign out there, it was just for basically the corner
property, not clear down both sides. So we had no idea that this was all going to
MERIDIAN PLANNING ZONING CONIMISSION
JULY 14, 1998
PAGE 39
be one owner and one development.
Borup: So was it your feeling you thought houses would fill in that vacant area?
Jaynes: We were told industrial, so we were thinking office buildings or
something like a distributorship like Coors, some of the other businesses that are
along that area.
Borup: Maybe just -industrial is not zoning for office buildings. It's things like
and maybe just for information, but junk yards, lumber yards, machine shop,
mobile home manufacturing, motor vehicle repair, contractors' yards.
Jaynes: Well there's other industrial along that Executive Drive.
(Inaudible)
Borup: Those are permitted uses in an industrial zone. They don't even need a
conditional use permit for. So industrial zone is really heavy duty type of uses.
Jaynes: Well when we moved in we were told it wouldn't be that kind of usage
because we lived right next to it.
Smith: Who were you told by?
Jaynes: The realtors:
Smith: Your reaftor.
Jaynes: And- the developer.
Smith: That's what I thought.
Borup: Well but those are all uses for industrial. I mean the retail really is a step
down in zoning from industrial usage as far as some of this type of stuff. I mean
a contractors' yard and a junk yard and things like that -
Jaynes: True, but nobody is going to build a junk yard right there, I mean
realistically.
(Inaudible)
Borup: Well, no, I don't think we would but some of these things are permitted
uses. Well, the junk yard is not a permitted conditional use, but a lot of the
others I read are permitted uses that they don't even need to come here.
Jaynes: True, but we still have to live with this in our backyards.
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION •
NLY 14, 1998
PAGE 40
Borup: We understand and that's why we're asking for everybody's comments.
Thank you.
MacCoy: Anyone else?
CHANDLER LEGARRETA 3683 E. JUDICIAL DRIVE WAS SWORN BY THE
ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY.
Legarreta: Either all of our realtors got the wrong information or they were all
corrupt, because the three or four people that have spoke here tonight already
have all the same story and believe it or not we don't have the same realtors. So
evidently there was a problem somewhere, a miscommunication whatever it
might have been, but I like the young lady before me would have never in a
million years bought property in this area had I known something like this was
going to be built there two years after I bought my home. What is this going to do
to our home? I think it's going to devalue it and I think it's going to devalue it by a
lot. Right now you have 100 to 150 homes in this subdivision, and right now the
turn over time for people selling a home in there is fairly minimal. It's an area
that's in substantial demand like most of Meridian. And I think if you build
something like this, we're all going to either lose money or we're going to have to
stay there for a long time. And it's as simple as that. I think we all under the
impression of buying a home and securing our interest in a home and being
confident in that decision and then something like this occurs and that all goes
away. So that's something that I want you to be conscious of. The other thing
that I'm concern with is according to this picture here, the main driveway into the
whole subdivision, now we're talking about a little just barely developed road that
connects to Fairview currently. And one main driveway that goes into the whole
subdivision off of Eagle Road. According to that picture now, that's going to be
an inlet for traffic for I don't know how many stores. Ten? I don't know. Eight to
ten stores and that's just counting the ones that are adjacent to the property
lines. That's not counting the ones that are adjacent to Eagle. Well, I am
concerned with the fact that right now is extremely at times to get on to Eagle.
Now, not only do we have to deal with Eagle traffic, but we have to fight with
people coming and using a shopping center to get in and out of our homes. I
don't know how that's going to work. I have to be real honest with you. Unless
somebody is going to be willing enough to put a stoplight again at our subdivision
entrance and the again a quarter of a mile down the road at Eagle on the comer.
That's going to start blocking a lot of things up. He said that they had a traffic
report done and submitted to ACHD or whoever they submit those to, but I would
be really concerned with how that's going to turn out being that is the main and
probably considered the only entrance into our subdivision due to the fact that
the other one will probably be dominated by retail shoppers, so those are my
concerns and I hope that you guys make the right decision. Thank you.
Borup: Again, I'm just trying to get a feel for a trend here. What was your
MERIDIAN PLANNING ZONING CONIMISSION
JiJLY 14, 1998
PAGE 41
understanding that your realtor told you?
Legarreta: Our understanding from our realtor was that that area would be filled
with doctors' offices, dentists' offices, professional buildings, offices building such
as the one built across the street. And to that size and to that magnitude I don't
know. Are you familiar with the insurance building they built across the streets?
We thought that it was going to be something similar to that, but small medical
facilities -
Borup: Did they mention what the zoning was?
Legarreta: I don't recall. No, I don't recall. If he would have told me the zoning, I
would have went well, that's mean? Tell me what's going in there, and that's why
I know exactly what he told me as far as the things that were going to be going in
there. I mean to be honest with you, I don't know that it was -
Borup: When you saw the sign down in the corner it said shopping mall coming
in, what did you think that meant?
Legarreta: You know, that sign -that sign -
Borup: Well, there was one before that.
Legarreta: Okay, the only one that I'm aware of, the only one I remember seeing
is the one that was put up there, the real large ones were put up there maybe six
months ago. Maybe not quite that long ago. I'm not sure how long ago it was,
maybe somebody else knows.
Borup: Maybe the others were up and down before you moved in then.
Legarreta: If there was one there, it wasn't very big, and I guarantee you it didn't
display the magnitude of this project. That is for sure.
Borup: No, I think the other has been several years ago.
Legarreta: Okay, we've only owned our home for approximately two years. If it
was there prior to that, I wouldn't have known that, no. Any other questions?
Smith: When did you buy your home?
Legarreta: We bought our home in September of '96, so it's going on two years
now.
MacCoy: Anyone else?
LORELL ROGERS 3426 E. FLORENCE DRIVE WAS SWORN BY THE
MERIDIAN PLANNING~AND ZONING COMMISSION •
JULY 14, 1998
PAGE 42
ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY.
Rogers: Well I'm naturally concerned because I live on Florence, which is
adjacent to the property. I'm not trying to be antagonistic in what I say, but I am
concerned about the noise. I know Mr. Durkin has addressed the concern about
the loading docks and the trucks and I appreciate that consideration. My concern
though is still as a person, as a person who is not a physicist, I don't have any
proof about the masonry walls echoing or reverberating or whatever. I think that
it would be fair to do an investigation for the benefit of the homeowners of some
sort to find out to have something that's actually factual or documented or some
type of finding to say which way is better, whether it's trees or masonry, because
I'm going to be sharing that space with them. And you know, I have my own
considerations. My husband works nights part of the year. Even during the day
I'm going to be affected, so I would like something from someone officially about
which is better before anybody says masonry is bad or trees are better. I think
that's fair. And also I came before this council about eight months ago for a
preschool and there were noise considerations with the children, and I think this
is going to be a whole lot more noise. And I think if I have to make
considerations for five children in my backyard, for half of the day, then a big
shopping center should be considered as a big noise factor and I think the
masonry wall, forme at least, is a consideration since I'm up there. If it's not the
best solution, I would like to know why and which is better. And I'm also
concerned about the street that the last gentleman mentioned, I believe it's called
Records Drive. I'm having visions of Boise Town Square at Christmas and traffic
cops and not being able to get into my own neighborhood and that worry may be
unfounded, but I would like it to be addressed and have the commissioners
consider that factor. I would like to be able to get into my subdivision during the
months of November, December and January, and those are considerations.
Does anybody have any questions?
MacCoy: Anyone else from the public?
LYNN ANDERSON 3592 E. CONGRESSIONAL WAS SWORN BY THE
ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY.
Anderson: When I first moved in, we first moved in about a year and four months
ago, we did know that there was going to be some sort of offices or very small
shops. We didn't hardly expect to see a mall that was going to be comparing
almost to the size of Boise Town Square, at least that's what we heard on the
news is that you know this is actually going to be compared to the size and traffic
of the Town Square Mall, and the traffic is what I'm very concerned about here.
Right now coming in and out of Eagle Road, I go to work about 7:40 in the
morning, and now that the construction is finally getting completed on Eagle
Road, there is becoming more and more traffic every morning leaving our
subdivision. In fact this morning traffic was backed up about a block away from
our entrance and you know to me that's a lot of traffic for 7:30 in the morning and
MERIDIAN PLANNING~ND ZONING COMMISSION •
J[JLY 14, 1998
PAGE 43
if that's when most of the trucks are going to be coming in and doing their
deliveries, I mean that's just going to multiply the traffic even with lights or any
stoplights, it's going to be just horrid coming in and out of there. I can see visions
of me sitting waiting ten minutes just to come back home trying to get by those
lights. Another thing about the traffic is just the access. We've got two accesses
into subdivision. What's going to be stopping people from saying okay I've got to
go from the grocery store over to one of the stores further south, what's going to
stop them from going right through our subdivision. Because it's going to be a lot
easier than going out to Fairview stopping at the left hand turn lane for five
minutes and then turn left. Pretty much most of the people are going to say hey
I'm going to go through that subdivision. And we're already getting a lot more
traffic now that we've added that additional inlet into our subdivision, and plus
that's going to also cause a lot more crime because people have two ways to get
in, one way to get in do their crime and get out. To me that's -when we first
bought that we didn't even know they were going to put in the second inlet, but
it's there, and so we've got to deal with it. And then the trees, personally I see no
reason why the width between our subdivision and the mall shouldn't be twice as
wide to put more trees in there. I feel like that extra width would help us quite a
bit so we wouldn't have to see the malt and everything. That's my two cents.
MacCoy: Got any questions for him? Okay, thank you very much.
DAVID YORGASON 2304 N. COLE ROAD, BOISE WAS SWORN BY THE
ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY.
Yorgason: Are we having fun yet? I am here I guess on behalf two halves. One
is the Crossroads Neighborhood Association and second is the developer of
Crossroads Subdivision. The Dakota Group has contacted us three or four
times, and they have, not me personally, but spoken to my boss also my father
Ramon Yorgason who was the original developer of Crossroads, and they have
been working to add things like this buffer that is between the stores and the
residents. Generally we support the store conceptually for the City of Meridian,
for Ada County, we think it's a good thing to have some retail here. This size,
that's another question, I'm not going to go there. But generally having retail in
this location it's a good idea. We have a couple of concerns and that would be
as alt of our residents, or many of our residents have stated and I think that all
them would state the same as sufficient buffer between the buildings and the
residents. Personally I'd rather see landscaping. That's my personal opinion.
We think - we have actually had discussions about three inch caliper trees as of
recent, and this is going to be nice back there. Is the distance between the
buildings and the properties, is that sufficient. I think that might be worthy of
consideration. In addition to that, the big sea of asphalt. Personally I agree. I
think it's a big sea of asphalt. And landscape islands or something would help
reduce cars cutting diagonals or whatever the case may be, it will also enhance
the appearance. Generally I just want to go on record to say that we support so
long as these concerns of our residents for Crossroads are heard and
MERIDIAN PLANNING~ND ZONING COMMISSION •
JULY 14, 1998
PAGE 44
addressed. We support the project. I'll answer any questions you might have.
Borup: Mr. Yorgason, were you involved on this conditional use permit that took
place in '91? That was before your company was involved with that project; is
that correct?
Yorgason: That's a good question. I'm not certain. I believe it is. Yes, I believe
our first phase of Crossroads Subdivision recorded in 1994. I'd have to go check
the records. It usually takes about 18 months, sometimes more sometimes less
from the starting point to get your first recorded plat.
Borup: That was our understanding that the conditional use was done by the
previous applicant that allowed for the residential use in that area.
Yorgason: I think another term is mixed use. I heard that word thrown around as
mixed use residential and -
Borup: At that time did you have any concept or understanding of what project
could be going in this area?
Yorgason: No.
Borup: You had no idea at all?
Yorgason: I personally wasn't working for Capitol Development at the time. If I
asked Ramon, we've actually spoken on a couple of occasions in the last year to
the prior land owner and I even hope to expand our subdivision, and it became
known to us as soon as the billboards went up advertising the retail shopping
center. No wonder he's not flexible or willing because he had better visions and
obviously this property of this directions sells for a higher price than a residential
development would sell. So I'm sure the prior owner is making more money is
what I'm getting at is a better deal to go this direction than residential. As far as
what it would be, you may want to ask my father Ramon. Personally I think this
much land - I don't know -really there's a lot of land there that's being taken
over and being used by building, and we're not talking about five acres here.
This is 70 plus acres. That's a pretty large parcel.
Borup: And the land is there. Either you fill it up or you let it go into weeds.
Yorgason: It's a prominent corner of Eagle Road and Fairview. Those are pretty
major intersections. As far as traffic, (inaudible) the highway district and I would
sure hope there's a stop light out there, but I know that's not for this discussion.
Borup: Okay, thank you.
MacCoy: Any other questions? Anyone else out there would like to have a
MERIDIAN PLANNING~IND ZONING COMMISSION •
JULY 14, 1998
PAGE 45
chance to say something?
KEN KALDHUSDAL WAS SWORN THE ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY.
Kaldhusdal: I think a lot of the concerns have been addressed, but I'd like to
address the misinformation one. I'm assuming you people know Greg Osland.
He used to serve on this board. I used to work with him. I used to be part of his
design team. What amazing me is he served on this board and I have lived in
my home probably three plus years, and he didn't tell me about this. I walked in
here tonight expecting like the rest of these people maybe a few shops, you
know, doctors' offices have been kicked around, office buildings that kind `of
thing, and I'm just amazed that he wouldn't inform me and I talk to him on a
monthly basis probably. He works for another firm down in California now, but I
think people are not walking into this (inaudible). I think they've been
misinformed. When the commission on this board doesn't tell me what's going
on, or he doesn't know what's going on. People like me got to think what's going
on here? I don't want to say slightly underhanded, but I'm sitting here listening to
this gentleman here, and he's I don't know walking over people if you ask me,
and I heard him say that unless it's planned before '91, most of these homes are
built after '93 '94 and things change, and just because somebody made rules
back in '91, I don't see why another use cannot be found for this property. You
know, office buildings, there's a nice office complex across Eagle. And another
thing I don't think has been addressed is the traffic issue. I don't Ada County has
addressed that issue yet. And until that's done, I don't think anything should be
done. I think you folks ought to sit on it. Let's see how it plays out here.
Borup: More of a comment, you made reference to Greg Osland and the
information that we would have on a project a couple of years ago is just what
the zoning was. At that time there was no development planned to the specifics,
so there's no way that he would know that. He could have looked on a zoning
plat, seen what it was or all you got to do is drive down the street and tell that.
I've been aware of it for ten or fifteen years, but. that's just because I live in
Meridian, I drive down Fairview all the time. Back in the 80's the talk was a major
shopping center was going in there. I've been waiting for years to see something
happen. Nothing ever happened and a bunch of houses popped up.
Kaldhusdal: This whole thing has changed.
Borup: Obviously that part did. So I'm not surprised to see this. My only
question is what took it so long, but the people that owned it and did the zoning
and stuff back in the 80's I guess no longer have an interest, but it's not
something that was just in the last minute after the neighborhood moved in.
Kaldhusdal: I thought about this. I got a call from Mr. Bear here. This afternoon
I found out about this. I walked in here tonight expecting office buildings, a few
other shops like the rest of these folks have been talking about and Pm looking at
MERIDIAN PLANNING ZONING COI~IlKISSION
JULY 14, 1998
PAGE 46
a Milwaukee Street here now, and I think it's too much.
Borup: Well, it is a lot , and I think and maybe I'm being redundant, but you know
the difference between commercial zoning and industrial and the type of use you
can have. One of the permitted uses is a feed and fertilizer store like we have
right over here on East 1st. You know that's a permitted use in an industrial
zone. They don't have to come in to this commission. They just get a permit and
do it, so those are the types of things that can go in an area that's zoned
industrial. But as far as what Greg knew and what we know as far as this
specific thing, we got the information a couple of weeks ago -last Friday.
Kaldhusdal: Well, all I ask is please serve the people. L
Borup: And that's why we're asking for comments. Thank you.
BARBARA SANSOUCIE 3526 E. FLORENCE WAS SWORN BY THE
ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY.
Sansoucie: Everybody has said some wonderful comments here, and I can
appreciate Mr. Durkin and his economic issues. I feel stupid, but I didn't even
ask my realtor about -and we can see the sunset and we can see Bogus and
this is great, and so I'm stupid Mr. Borup for not asking. And then when I saw the
sign and it said Family Center I thought we're going to have a gym maybe or like
a recreational center for the kids. I'm a little nervous. The traffic is a concern,
the noise is a concern, and because my backyard is right there by Shopko, that's
a big concern. But I was just stupid. I'm all for free enterprise though and you
know there's that balance. I just didn't think the seesaw was going to be in my
backyard. One thing that Mr. Durkin said that kind of (inaudible) was he had said
that this was prior to the homes being put in there. This was all decided -not
that it was all decided, but that they had changed it from industrial to. retail, and
then he said if it had been zoned differently then he would look at it differently,
and I don't know if I heard him wrong or if I took it wrong, but when he said that I
felt like it was like that last gentleman said, sorry, you know this is just how it's
going to be. You were stupid to move in there because this is what we planned
on doing. But if the idea had been residential and then we would come in later,
then we'd try to do something else, and so maybe I just misunderstood you but
that just kind of the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. One of my questions
was this already a for sure thing, but it looks like it is. I mean I kind of wonder
why we're even here tonight except to decide how far away from my house you
are going to be. So there. Thank you. Any questions?
MacCoy: Thank you.
DAVID SOUTHERS 104 S. CAPITOL BOULEVARD, BOISE WAS SWORN BY
THE ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY.
MERIDIAN PLANNING~ND ZONING CO1~tISSION
JULY 14, 1998
PAGE 47
Southers: My company is Southers Properties. We've been involved with this
project since about February of 95, and I thought maybe shed a little light on the
clarification at least for the last three years or better on the sign issues. We
brought the first developer in February of '95, we got started with them, and they
signed the property. Prior to that there were small signs that Thomas T. Wright
Company has. Tom's one of the partners in Gemtome the former owner of the
land. They had the small signs the small green sign 4x8 or 4x4 even. But those
went down about April of '95 and the sign that went on the corner where the large
one is today is identical to the same size. It did not feature the layout the way the
site plan does now or proposed site plan.. (End of Tape)
Southers:... and then we had two smaller ones out on the corners that were
there. They were 4x8 signs, but just a little clarification on the sign issue. But
they were all -the big one there was pretty - I would think most of you are aware
for years it's been known as The Crossroads or The Crossroads Center, and I
believe that's the name of the subdivision bordering it, but anyway I just wanted
to make that known or clear. At least for the last little over three years. Prior to
that as I said there were smaller signs.
MacCoy: Any questions?
Borup: Just a short one. I remember the larger sign being there. That's why I
brought that up earlier, but I don't remember what size that was. You say that
was comparable to the size that's there now?
Southers: The one on the corner. The big one that faces the intersection. I think
it was the same size. I think it was exactly the same size. We used a different
sign company. But I don't think we added anything to it. We had to beef it up
because of the wind, but I don't believe it's a bigger sign. I think it's exactly the
same size.
Borup: Do you remember what the sign said?
Southers: Oliver McMillian was the developer name that you may remember.
San Diego developer, but it was the standard sort of a "coming soon" or known
as The Crossroads Center, and it announced that it was -
Borup: Did it say retail development or what their office buildings or -
Southers: You know I wish I had them. If I would have thought I would have
brought those or I could get them for you. I've got all the renderings. But they
were informational purposes, but it definitely was a retail tone. There was no
intent at that time or ever since I've been involved with it to do anything but retail.
Smith: No offices?
MERIDIAN PLANNING ZONING COMMISSION
JULY 14, 1998
PAGE 48
Southers: No. We never had -that was never the intent. And as Commissioner
Borup mentioned, or wondered what took so long as I'm sure you all know in the
retail business as we say in the trade the tenants drive the deals and there's now
a market for this property with all the road that's occurred and Boise and
Meridian seem to be growing together. It's an excellent site. Eagle and Fairview
is a big big big location in this area, in all of Ada County period. Any other
questions?
Borup: Thank you.
MacCoy: Thank you very much. Anyone else?
BROOKE BARGEE 3670 E. FLORENCE DRIVE WAS SWORN BY THE
ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY.
Barcee: I'm actually a little emotional about it, but I don't care how big the sign
was, it says the Family Center. And I guess it was our fault in believing our
realtor in saying it was going to be a family medical center and offices for lease.
And that's a point I want to make across, which maybe that's something I have to
take up with him. We have been in our house since the beginning of June. I'll
admit I'm young and don't understand zoning, but I certainly will now. And I just
wanted to let you know how I felt about it. Do you have any questions?
MacCoy: Thank you very much. Anyone else?
PATRICK HARPER 3644 E. JUDICIAL DRIVE WAS SWORN BY THE
ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY.
Harper: I've been a resident, purchased our house a little years ago. I do
strongly agree with most of the comments made by my friends and neighbors
here. When we moved in, I did see the sign. It was one of my largest concerns
along with the future development of Pine Street and how that was going to work
and affect our property values. I called the number on the sign and had left a
message, didn't get a response but in lieu of that I did talk to the realtors, the
promoters, these various people. The medical plaza and this whole concept was
put forth at that time although it was nothing guaranteed. A grocery store was
mentioned which I thought would be perhaps nice and beneficial. Fred Meyer
wasn't there at that time. These are things that I did not at that time believe
would be harmful or detrimental to our property values. Though I did expect the
retail development, I did not expect this. I think the scope and scale of this, it is
unprecedented for Meridian for the area. It just seems like we've taken this
whole piece of land and tried to pack as much development in there as possible.
I think something even scaled back at this location is going to be successful. But
this is just overwhelming to me. Those are my main concerns. I think the whole
project is excessive in scope, and what's been discussed here and the size and
the fact that it extends passed both of our entrances and traffic. You know
MERIDIAN PLANNING ZONING COMMISSION
JULY 14, 1998
PAGE 49
certainly hindsight is 20/20, but I think we all have~a lot of regrets now seeing
what we do today. That's all I had. Any questions?
MacCoy: Thank you very much. Anyone else? Commissioners anything else
you want to discuss yet with anybody? I was going to invite you up next.
Durkin: Would you like me to wait?
MacCoy: Come right ahead.
Prior: Sir, would you do me a favor and just state your name again. You're still
under oath.
Durkin: One of the things brought up tonight is something I overlooked in my
earlier presentation. And I thank the gentleman for bringing it up, and I am going
to move this site plan back across the room because I failed to talk about a
particular traffic issue that we tried to resolve. There will be a traffic signal at the
intersection of Records Drive and Fairview Avenue. It's a signal that we are
installing and paying for. In addition the ACHD has significant expansion plans
for Pine Street and the state and ACRD have designated Pine Street and Eagle
Road as a signaled intersection. The control of that when that goes in is really in
the control of ACHD and the state. However the funds to pay for it will come out
of the impact fees for this project. So the funds are there. The timing and the
warranting of that signal will be up to ACHD and the State Department of
Transportation. There is those two signals are shown on the site plan. I would
ask you not to make the Pine Street one part of our approval because it's totally
out of our control. Pine Street has not been installed yet and it will be installed
ACRD at some later point. That's on the far south end. Records Drive is the
street that we own. There is an easement for the people in the subdivision to use
the street to get to and from their homes. The residences may not be able to
look at the site plan and tell this but the plan calls for widening of Records Drive
and curb and gutter and sidewalk on both sides. There will be an all movement
signal at the intersection at Records Drive and Fairview. Is it okay if I stand here.
Some of these comments I'm just going to address to the concerns of the
audience. There's an access off of the future Pine Street for the development,
but the major access points are primarily this one on Fairview and this one on
Eagle Road, in the traffic study business they call these pods of cars, but the
signal here and the signal here will synchronized with this signal to free up the
access along Eagle Road and along Fairview. Another point that was made
tonight and it's made in public hearings that I've gone to for years and years and
years. Everyone says we don't want another Fairview. We don't want another
Fairview Avenue. We don't want another Fairview and Cole. Well, you're not
getting that in this project. If you go down Fairview if you go to the intersection of
Fairview and Cole you'll see access drives every hundred feet, sometimes eighty
feet, sometimes forty feet apart. This is a controlled access subdivision. So from
a traffic standpoint, it's designed with the latest and best technology. It isn't
MERIDIAN PLANI~IING AND ZONING COI~IMISSION
JULY 14, 1998
PAGE 50
anything like Fairview and Cole. The access is controlled. There are limits and
standards set today by ACHD. They are more strict than they were a year ago.
They are far more strict than they were five years ago, but if you notice on Eagle
Road, there's no access on to Eagle until you get to this point. If this were
Fairview, there'd be at least ten access points in that amount of distance.
There's no access point between Florence Street coming from the industrial park
across the street until you get to Presidential Drive. There's zero access points
along here, and there are no access points along here. So the access is
controlled and it isn't like Fairview. The traffic will run more smoothly. The width
of the streets, Eagle Road has been designed for this use. It's fully capable of
handling the traffic for this project. Fairview evolved over years and years and
years. They can't expand it without tearing down buildings. And that really isn't
the case here. Eagle Road is perfectly wide enough for this project. Fairview
Avenue has been completely widened expanded to handle specifically this type
of development, and specifically the way the accesses are designed here. We
work closely with Dan when we built the Fred Meyer center. We tried to
accommodate the adjacent property owners' needs. I'm sorry about the trash
and litter and if he'd call, I haven't heard about it, but it's something that we can
look into. As far as the intended use, the zoning, the conditional use permit that's
in place now, it's a matter of public record. When I was first looking at the
property I called the city of Meridian and I had the information in five minutes. I
wish that the people, I've been through these hearings before, and I've heard
people getup and say the realtor said this and the realtor said that. I'm really
sorry about that. But I'd like them to name on the public record under oath who
their realtors were, their name address and phone number. Shame on the
realtor, but it isn't shame on me. What we're proposing is a matter of public
record since 1991. There's been a shopping center coming soon sign on that
property since 1991. We acquired the property, we went under contract for the
property in December of 1997, and there were three large signs installed in
February of 1998 with this site plan, very similar to that site plan on the plan. The
Family Center is a registered trademark name of all the shopping centers that
belong to this developer. There's been no intention to mislead -that's the name
of all their shopping centers in all of the states that they operate. They are all the
Family Center at Taylorsville, the Family Center at Mid Valley, the Family Center
wherever they are. The sign that is up right now, I ordered the installation of it.
The day that went up, they took the other one down. Not a day went by since
1991 where the property hasn't been signed. We had a wind storm this spring
and one of the sign located at Presidential Drive and Eagle Road blew down, but
there's never been another moment when the property hasn't been clear and
obvious to the public announcing a shopping center. If they choose to listen to a
realtor, a developer, a home builder, I'm sorry. That's been the plan for this
property. It's been in the comprehensive plan for the City of Meridian, which is a
matter of public record, for some time. If we went by city development, we could
pack a lot more in here. This is designed to be a successful long living shopping
center that will be successful for tenants that operate in this valley today and
tenants that are expanding into this valley from other places. There are ways
MERIDIAN PLANNIN ~ ZONING COMMISSION
JULY 14, 1998
PAGE 51
that we can maximize make attempts to maximize the development further, and
there are ways that we could reduce the development, but as I mentioned the
Family Center is a registered trademark of a 45 year old shopping center
development company and they have a really good formula. They operate nine
successful shopping centers in the Salt Lake Valley, and they understand that
balance. I've worked with them on many projects over the years, and this is a
successful combination for a long term valuable shopping center. Mr. Yorgason
got up and talked and supported the project with some conditions, and I
appreciate that support, but I guess I'd like to comment that we are now seeking
a conditional use for our specific use. The residential developer is operating
under a conditional use permit for their subdivision. The residential developer
has minimum setbacks in their backyards with no buffering. We have larger
setbacks in our backyard with buffering. I'm happy tonight to commit to you if it
was an emotion or if it was a condition to expand that landscaping buffer along
the back, but I don't necessarily think that's the answer and I think there might
another solution. And I would encourage a motion if anyone were to consider it
to have us work with the staff someone in your city that's an expert or has
expertise available to them to come up with a combination of possibly a wider
berm and a fence. But let's be honest tonight in front of all these people.
Because if they are back two years from now saying they can see the shopping
center, they are going to be able to see the shopping center no matter where we
put it. There they are back saying they can hear the operation of the shopping
center, they will be able to hear the operation of the shopping center. They may
not be able to hear Eagle Road anymore, because the shopping center will block
that noise, but they will be able to hear the comings and goings in the shopping
center, and I guess I want to go on record tonight clearly in front of you and in
front of the audience which is primarily adjacent property owners, that the buffer
we're proposing or that we're will to go with is not going to end the visibility or the
noise issue. I think a combination of fence, buffer and breaking it up, there may
be some more to do, and I think that there might be an idea to get an expert
involved, but if you made a motion directly staff to come up with not less than a
20 foot buffer along the back but give staff the latitude to break it up, making it
shallower or deeper with the other methods, I think that might be an idea.
Prior: Mr. Chairman, could I interrupt briefly? I took the opportunity to read the
conditional use permit from '91 and just for everyone's general information, I'm
referring to page number six on the conditional use permit from 1991, and just
Mr. Durkin for your information as well as far as the berming and some of these
other things are concerned that this conditional use permit from '91 states that all
development in the area shall be controlled and guided by design review. So not
only once this thing gets going, if this thing is approved these plans are going to
be coming back to this commission again for a design review here in front of this
commission and everything will be reconsidered as well all over again. So this is
just the tip of the iceberg as far as that's concerned because this is subject to
design review and as such this commission will be given an opportunity to go
over all of these things again and make any adjustments they deem necessary.
•
MERIDIAN PLANNING~ND ZONING COMMISSION
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PAGE 52
Durkin: We can't begin that process Mr. Attorney until we have your approval
tonight. We can't go hire an architectural firm to come up with a design unless
we -without getting this step forward tonight. I'm aware of all the steps and
procedures that we have to go through. We've gone through it on other projects
in Meridian but we can't come up a landscape design - we can't come up with
more than - we would be guessing at what your desires might be and what the
adjacent residents desires might be. If the adjacent property owners desires for
the project to go away, it's not going to go away. It's going to go forward. If the
adjacent property owners desires are to work with us and with the city to come
up with the buffering plan that is more desirable to them, and it's workable for us,
we'll happily do so. We have a very good reputation in that regard in this city and
in the city of Boise. I'd like to talk just for a minute about the zoned differently
comment that I made earlier. I saw those words hanging out here after they left
my mouth, and I guess sometimes I speak and I'm basing my comments on
hundreds of these types of applications in different cities and different projects.
And my point was that if I were going into this subdivision and taking 80 lots and
combining them into one, there would a whole different approach. I would be
going through rezone first. Prior to getting a rezone I would meet with all of the
people that were trying to sell the lots. There's a whole different procedure as a
developer that you go through. The end product is the same. The end product
we want it to be nice. We've owned it for a long time. We maintain it forever. So
there's no intention to build one quality one way or another quality the other way.
All of our projects all of the Family Center projects are of a high quality and so
any comment or statement that I made that would imply otherwise, I would like to
correct right now. I think those are my only additional comments. I do have one
of the principals and officers in the Family Center accompanied from Utah here
fionight. I'd be happy to answer any other questions you may have.
Borup: Mr. Chairman just a clarification. Entrance widths, it looks like your major
entrances have three lanes on the exit; is that correct?
Durkin: I have a note to that effect.
Borup: I was looking at the main entrance on Fairview. So there's going to be a
right, left and straight ahead essentially?
Durkin: It is indicated on this plan. I don't know that -- there's a right turn, a left
turn coming from the west, there's a right in or a straight in. I don't know. If
you're going out the entrance here is about five lanes.
Borup: Okay, that's the one. Plenty of width for the cars on exiting.
Durkin: Yeah. The same with here. There's a free right turn lane and a left turn
lane and a one lane coming in.
MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION
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PAGE 53
Borup: You said you've already done a traffic study and made that available to
ACHD:
Durkin: We have provided a traffic study both to ACRD and to Shari Stiles at the
City of Meridian. It was done by Dolby Engineering dated June 22, 1998. I'll
happily leave another copy here tonight if anyone would like to look through it.
I'd also be happy to leave one with - if there's a neighborhood representative
here tonight. You know if there's somebody from the neighborhood association
that would want to have it available to the residents, I'd be happy to leave it with
- or provide them with copies at a later -
Borup: The traffic lighting that you made reference to was that in line with what
the traffic study indicated would be -
Durkin: Exactly.
Borup: The other question I had was on Pine Street and as you indicated, we
don't when that is going to come through, but would your studies indicate that the
Pine Street light is probably the only one that's going to be in tine with what
ACHD is going to allow along there?
Durkin: The State of Idaho has a limitation on how close signals can be on a
state highway. This is the closest point. I would think that it would be more
desirable here to absolutely positively guarantee not to be against the rules of the
state. We can appeal it at a November hearing, but this is the minimum.
Borup: From Fairview.
Durkin: From this intersection. This is the minimum distance for a stop signal
and in fact the state and ACRD have had a planned signal at this intersection for
some time, and our traffic studyevelo ment heren that a s gnat we be squired set
a new school and some other d p
The big thing is signals don't go in very rapidly on state roads or county roads
when there isn't funding. The funding is in place with more than a million dollars
worth of impact fees from this project.
Borup: It sounds like you may be asking for alight -was that Congressional?
Was that the street that goes in?
Durkin: We have requested a light off of Records.
Borup: Okay, right. I was looking at Congressional. Is that the other one? You
indicated would be -Presidential would the best location as far as traffic usage in
that area?
Durkin: The county and the state are taking a longer view, and in the long run,
MERIDIAN PLANNING ZONING COMMISSION
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PAGE 54
they may be correct. Today with the shopping center built here, and no Pine
Street it would sure be nice to have a signal at Presidential. However, it violates
every rule the state has for distance. They don't allow it in Idaho Falls. The state
won't allow it. But I believe that would serve immediately this subdivision. On
the other hand, Pine Street will continue from downtown Meridian all the way
through to I want to say Maple Grove. There will be a significant traffic carrying
street. If there was a signal at Presidential and Eagle Road it would be way too
close to Pine Street and I can see within five years or eight years, Pine Street will
carry significantly greater traffic than this entrance on Presidential. So in the long
it's the right thing to do. We ask for - to take a shorter look at it and possibly
consider moving it and it's -
Borup: I think that answers part of the other question I had with the signal at
Pine Street why you didn't have a more significant entrance at that location. And
from what I gather from what you were saying because the (inaudible) could be
continuing on.
Durkin: Well I think the big reason is the property depth on Pine Street isn't very
substantial, and so I can only get one entrance as you can see there's one
entrance to that whole end of the project there. So if I had a more substantial
entrance -this meets the criteria that ACRD has. I could make it wider, but it
only serves that smaller ten acre parcel. We're trying to develop the center to
encourage the primary access points to be at Florence and directly in front of
Shopko on Fairview Avenue between those two pads. You can see we feel that
those two entrance points will be the more significant and I think you'll see that
reflected in the study. This is done by a local traffic study engineering company.
That's where I'm getting my information.
Borup: So in your design the signage and such, that's what you emphasize as
the entrance.
Durkin: Yes.
Borup: That's all I have at this time.
MacCoy: Okay, any other commissioners that have any questions right now?
De Weerd: I wondered on your entrances, are you going to have a turning lane?
Durkin: We have - at the entrance points we have what we call de-cel lanes, so
if you were going north on Eagle Road and you wanted to turn in here, you'll veer
over into a lane that's specifically for turning right into this center. If you were
going on Fairview and you pass the intersection here, you'll drop into a
deceleration lane and turn in. If you're leaving here, you'll pull into what we call
an acceleration lane. It's indicated on the plan. You kind of merge into the three
lanes of traffic that are already on Fairview. So yes we will have accel and decal
MERIDIAN PLANNING ZONING COMMISSION •
JULY 14, 1998
PAGE 55
lanes at all the entrance points, and that's our design by the tenants'
requirements and by the ACHD's requirements as well.
De Weerd: I know you had mentioned the litter aspect, but I didn't hear the
solution to it.
Durkin: The litter? Frankly it's the first time I've ever heard of it. We have the
property maintained and swept, and I think that Don, is he still here? He lived
right behind our project at Locust Grove and Fairview, and it was a 40 acre alfalfa
field that changed from a lush green 40 acre alfalfa field into a shopping center
and mini storage, and I can only think that that's what he is referring to. I've
never had a call or comment from him, but it's something that I said I would look
into. I think when you get more people in an area, you're going to have more
litter, but as far as the blowing of the litter from the shopping center to the
residential neighborhoods, my experience has been that happens more often
when there is like a wide open field adjacent to it, that without a berm or
landscaping, you can get some blowing of litter. But I just wasn't aware of it
being a problem at Don's house.
De Weerd: One other issue that he had brought up is the idling trucks waiting for
loading docks to open, and that sort of thing. Is there a way to address that
concern as well?
Durkin: The only thing I can tell you is that the trucks behind the Fred Meyer
shopping center are parking on a private street. We tried to dedicate the street
and haven't been successful at it. It's a private street to serve the mini storage
and the shopping center. It's signed "no parking". The Meridian Police, they
don't enforce that because it's a private street so it's kind of been a no man's
land. We don't have that issue here. But a lot of the trucks that park back there
where we've gone and asked them to leave are just in the area. It's an area that
they can pull off and park and it's safe and well lighted, and that's what they do.
will say that one user that will have a noisier truck is the grocery store because
they have refrigeration units on the vehicle, so if they pull up and drop a trailer at
the loading dock, drive away and come back to pick up the trailer after the
employees of the store unload it, the whole time there is a refrigeration unit on
top of the trailer that does run to keep whatever is inside frozen or cool. But they
- it's rare that they would accept or have a delivery after 3:30 or 4:00 in the
afternoon. I have to tell you it's extremely rare that that would occur. Once a
month type of rare. It's a real unusual event.
De Weerd: Mr. Yorgason also had mentioned landscape islands in the parking
areas.
Durkin: Well, I just have to go on my experience. I'm a developer of more than
150 shopping centers, primarily in the northwestern quarter of the United States.
I have done some in the southwest, but my experience has been primarily in
MERIDIAN PLANNING ~ ZONING COMMISSION •
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PAGE 56
what we call snow country. I built 79 Skopko stores in 11 states. I managed
them, operated them for a long time, and from a management and operation of a
shopping center, it's not a good idea in my opinion. As the owner of the land the
person paying for the installation of the trees and paying for the replacement year
after year after year, and in 15 years when we have small three inch caliper trees
in the parking lot because they can't develop and they can't grow or they are
broken or they are sickly. I don't like it. I'm basing that decision purely on my
experience as an operator of shopping centers and a developer of many
shopping centers. I'm not trying in any way to save money. I'm happy to donate
the trees that we are saving from the development to other areas. I will load up
every square inch that I can on the site. But from my experience everywhere that
I've developed in this climate, it's not a good idea and it's not viable. You can do
things to make it work. You can install big walls around it. You can have the big
planters. You have cars smash into them. You have snowplows smash into
them. Sanding trucks smash into them. Delivery trucks smash into them. It's
dangerous. It's not a good thing and that's based on my experience as a
developer.
Borup: I would like to follow up on a couple of things Tammy said. And that was
for me to clarify on the trucks idling. It sound like you are saying that the trucks
are not on -again talking about the Fred Meyer property. The trucks are not. on
the property. They are on the road waiting for - it that your understand?
Durkin: That's my understanding. The Fred Meyer store has three docks behind
it, and we have had comments that there have been trucks that pull off of
Fairview Avenue and pull up on the road. There's nowhere else to park behind
the Fred Meyer store except on that road.
Borup: But you're saying on this property since there is not a road private or
otherwise back there, the trucks would not be coming on the property until their
loading time or how would you control that differently?
Durkin: I would sign it. The stores managers and employees have the right to
police it. The residents that are adjacent residents have the right to call the
property management company 24 hours a day to report a problem on it. They
have a security company that patrols the premises.
Borup: What's different from that from the Fred Meyer?
Durkin: We don't do that at Fred Meyer.
Borup: Part of it because of the road.
Durkin: Part of it because of the road, and part of it because there aren't any
adjacent residents. There's a mini storage project between the road -
MERIDIAN PLANMNG~ ZONING COMMISSION •
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PAGE 57
Borup: I'm by there a couple of times a week. '
Durkin: We have had comments on that and it is signed. But in this case it
would be much more of an active project. We would agree to sign it, we will sign
it whether you require us or request us to or not.
De Weerd: And you'll have a phone number on that sign that these residents
can call.
Durkin: Sure, be happy to do so. I'll be happy to -they will be notified who is the
contact person at all times.
Borup: I drive down that street once or twice a week and I have not seen a trash
problem behind Fred Meyer. I wasn't specifically looking for it, but it wasn't
something that was noticeable enough. I don't think -
Smith: I'm over there more than that and I have never noticed a trash problem.
(Inaudible -off the microphone)
Durkin: We have a real aggressive maintenance on that, and I've never had a -
we've had calls on other things. I've had calls on the trucks, about three in the
last three years, four maybe. I've had calls on being people leaving a sofa in the
middle of the street or leaving furniture or dumping things or Christmas trees that
didn't get picked up. We've had calls on type of thing. I've never one time had a
call about litter. We pick it up five times a week. We'll do the same here. That's
our normal maintenance program, and I've never had a comment until tonight.
Borup: Now other than the refrigeration units, is there a policy on the trucks idling
in the loading dock? I know diesel trucks can be -sometimes they seem like
they always want to go.
Durkin: Well we have a similar situation at South Shore Shopping Center. I
would encourage anyone here tonight to contact the president of.Pier Point
Homeowners Association by the way in the southeast Boise, you'll find that the
home values in that area have continued to increase at the posted rate of Ada
County housing increases, and Ihaven't - no home has been on the market
behind our shopping center for more than month or two, so there hasn't been any
unusual marketing, but the - I lost track of the question. The truck idling issue,
we had a problem at Albertson's with one delivery company, and it's now been
signed. No truck idling. We don't allow overnight parking so this would be
signed in such a way, no skateboarders, no overnight parking, no truck idling.
There will be those red and white signs along the backs of the buildings and
throughout the whole loading dock area. I do like to light it up in the back, which I
think you know that adjacent property owners should be real concerned about
that. We don't like people hanging around behind the shopping center at night
MERIDIAN PLANNIN~ ZONING COMMISSION
JULY 14, 1998
PAGE 58
and we want it lit up in such a way that it doesn't invite that type of activity. But
then we don't want the backyards of the adjacent properties affect with the
lighting. So we install this type of security lighting all along the back of the
buildings. And they are adjusted to shine directly down and not into the
backyards. The is the specific spec sheet on the one that we use, and so it lights
that area up so if the residents are in their house and they can easily see what's
going on in that area. They can contact the name and number and who to
contact to take care of it, and then we have active management and security.
MacCoy: Would you mind showing that to the audience out here?
Durkin: Sure. They are mounted on the building. The (inaudible -away from
the microphone).
Prior: Speak in the mike.
Durkin: It's an educated estimate on my part. I think they are about 12 feet, ten
to twelve feet off the ground on the back of the Shopko store, and they aim
straight down.
Smith: They look like they are about sixteen feet. I don't have a scale.
Durkin: Mine is in the car. And then on the shop, some of the buildings, some of
the buildings will be lower and so obviously the lighting would be lower.
Smith: Getting back to the landscaping again in the parking lot. Do you have the
same problems that you refer to with cars and snowplows? I'm going to state
that we don't get that much snow here in Boise really. But anyway, where you
have the planters along the drives with the - it looks like there's no dimension on
the width of them. But the ones between the parking stalls and the drives, do
you have the same problems with them?
Durkin: I don't because there's a raised island there, and so the snow would be
pushed in that direction. That's typically how we pile it. We pay the snow
removal bills on two shopping centers and we do get - we have to plow if it's an
inch or an inch and half or more. We are out there regularly although it isn't like
- I grew up in Wisconsin and it's like Hawaii compared to that. We don't have a
problem with it in the areas that we have designed on the plan. We say we don't
have a problem with it, I mean there's always a replacement of trees necessary
in all of our centers, and it's a budgeted expense that we do all the time. WE
have the least amount of trouble in the areas where the trees are shown now,
and they have the best success of growing to the full -the best hope of growing
to the full mature -
Smith: And it would be safe to state that if you were to take that same island
configuration and locate it at half points or third points along the length of the row
MERIDIAN PLANNIN~ ZONING COMMISSION - •
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PAGE 59
of stalls in the same orientation, you could still plow your snow around those in
the same manner. If you took these two trees in this island and say you repeated
it there and there so where it's going in some fashion like that.
Durkin: You know it's something that we can argue about all night. I will never
convince you and you'll convince me. The only difference is I pay for them all the
time in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, Helena, Montana, Boise, Idaho. I know it
happens. I know the realities of it, and it's based on experience. There's nothing
we can say tonight to convince me otherwise. They die, they get diseased. They
get sick and it's not successful anywhere that I know with this type of traffic. At a
doctor's office or a dentist's office where the cars come in and park all day or an
office complex where there's that type of activity, it's different. With the kind of
activity car traffic activity that you get in a center like this, I swear to you,
Commissioner, it's a bad idea. It's a bad idea based on my experience in doing it
time and time again. So I always seek this. I end up doing it differently a lot of
times, and I can't think of an example where it's a been successful move.
Smith: Okay.
Durkin: All I can do is answer truthfully under oath.
Smith: I appreciate that.
Durkin: I promise you what I'm saying is true and that's it.
MacCoy: Any other questions?
Smith: Not from me.
MacCoy: Anything else you have to offer to us?
Durkin: I want to thank you for the opportunity to present this tonight. I would
like to ask-you for some type of a motion that we can continue this moving
forward. I would like to pledge to you that I will happily leave my name, my
address, my phone number with all the people present tonight. I have met with
the developer of the adjacent residential property, the developer is in a rather
unusual position that he - I think it's true to say he is the president of the
homeowners association and the developer and seller of lots in the projects, so
it's a little bit unusual. I think it's more difficult for him to actually really relay what
the residents would like to see in this development. It's just more difficult, but I
would happily give my name, address and phone number. I'll come out and meet
with any of these people or any of the other people in the subdivision at any time.
I'm available for questions for them, and as we go forward. Thank you.
Borup: Just one last question, Mr. Chairman, and that was I think one of the
concerns we have is not having ACHD's report. You said you've discussed it
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PAGE 60
with them. You're pretty confident on the direction they're going.
Durkin: Well, they have a hearing requirement. They have a tech review
meeting on the 24th. The access point on Eagle Road is a licensed access
point. That's a defined exact spot. So we're not asking for any more on Eagle
Road than we already have a license in hand for because of the state highway,
they have license access versus the other ones. I can tell you that what we're
asking for on Eagle Road -excuse me on Fairview is well within the guidelines
set out by Ada County.
Borup: Are you talking the light or access points?
Durkin: The light, the number of access points, the spacing on the access point
is well within their guidelines. We've shown this to them in a tech review
meeting. They were pleased with the plan and they set up a formal meeting for
the 24th, so l can represent to you we've had no concerns from ACHD. The time
we met with them they did not have the traffic study. The traffic study gives no -
there's not anything in here that would give cause for concern that the project
can't be handled with the road network so I'm pretty confident of that. Again I'd
like to ask you that as far as the ACHD approvals, you make that part of your
process. I'm not trying to dodge that. Whatever conditions they attach, I'm
happy to live with.
Borup: Were you aware I think the city just received this today, essentially
saying they haven't had time enough time they felt to review the project.
Durkin: I wasn't aware of that.
Borup: And that's all it said. It was .short and to the point.
Durkin: We have met with their complete staff on two occasions, one in a formal
off the record formal tech review meeting. In other words, it wasn't advertised, it
wasn't published, but we went in .and showed them what we were doing. It's a
workshop session that ACHD has. We met with them in that format with these
exact plans. They ripped them up, we wenf over everything measured and
talked and they were real encouraging that it was well within the -- (End of Tape)
Durkin: ... I could see from my experience of-the there isn't a traffic concern for
this project.
De Weerd: Will your next meeting with them be public?
Durkin: I'm not sure how they do the tech review. They have a tech review
meeting-their tech review meetings are on Friday mornings. It is scheduled for
the 24th on Friday morning. As a result of that meeting, they have a staff report
that is developed from the tech review that goes to the commissioners for their
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PAGE 61
public hearing and that will be public and that is an unscheduled date. I don't
know when that will be; it will certainly be before we can continue with any
permits or approvals with the City of Meridian. It's arequirement-it's a county
requirement that before we can put a driveway cut we have to have a public
hearing, so.
MacCoy: Anything else? Mr. Borup?
Borup: Not to Mr. Durkin.
MacCoy: Okay. Mr. Durkin, do you have anything else you want to add.
Durkin: No.
MacCoy: Okay, Thank you for your comments.
Borup: Well, I just would like to have some discussion among the commissioners
before we close the public hearing.
MacCoy: One moment, okay we have a public open house still here forum.
Anybody have any additional comments they thought about since we gone
through this much or make a statement?
Rogers: Is there anything that-can I just ask the commission and Mr. Durkin, is
there gonna-could we find-is there any information that we could get our
hands on to tell us what is the better buffer, either the wall or the landscaping. Is
there anything out there, because I haven't found a lot of books in the library
about that sort of thing. It's just not something that the general person would
know where to look for.
De Weerd: Does Mr. Freckleton have any comment on that?
Freckleton: Mr. Chairman, Commissioner De Weerd, I don't. To be quite honest
with you the masonry wall was my suggestion. It looked like Mr. Durkin did have
some response to her question.
Durkin: And there is information on that. I've done some research on freeway
noise and residential.
Rogers: Well, where is it?
Freckleton: I might say commissioners, the ADA Planning Association in
downtown Boise, on Idaho Street. They have a library that has planning
information in it.
KEN SANSOUCIE, 3526 E LAWRENCE, MERIDIAN, 83642. WAS SWORN IN
MERIDIAN PLANNING ZONING COMMISSION •
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PAGE 62
BY THE ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY.
Sansoucie: My question refers to snow removal. I would like to know what are
appropriate hours for snow removal. I know people in the industry; they remove
snow for the businesses that they contract to whenever it snows and if that
happens to be 2 o'clock in the morning, then that is when it is. I would like to be
comfortable in that that's not going to apply in this situation. Just a general
comment, this shopping center is a profit center for Mr. Durkin and I can
appreciate that, but just south and east of the Shopko is my sanctuary from the
world. That's why this is emotional for a lot of us. I want that disturbed as little
as possible, regardless of public records. That is all I have to say. If there are
any questions, I would be happy to answer.
MacCoy: Are there any questions commissioners? None, okay. Anyone else,
some thoughts here.
Anderson: I just had a couple of questions for you. Where exactly would the
trucks-doe you have planned, where exactly will they be entering and exiting?
Are they going to be on this-are they going to be coming in through here?
Borup: Mr. Anderson, you may want to direct that to the Chairman and then he
can ask the applicant that.
Anderson: I was just wondering where the trucks will be entering and exiting into
the mall area. If it was-if they were going to be doing it or if the main traffic was
going to be through the areas that are currently developed for our subdivision-
or not. Right now it looks as if that is where most of the traffic will be entering
and exiting, at least to my view.
MacCoy: Okay we will take other people and then we will ask him back up here
to answer your question.
Sansoucie: I also wanted to mention there was a development that has these
islands of tress in Boise. To me it is quite attractive, it's right next to the original
Albertson's, I think it's like State and 16th, to me that's a very attractive use of
trees and islands. I don't see why they couldn't use something like that idea to fit
here. It would be quite appropriate, to me at least. That's about it, except I was
going to mention the traffic study that was done; did he say June 22 or... I was
just, that again was still before the completion of this Eagle widening that they
have. Ever since in the last two weeks it has been quite a difference in the
traffic, I have noticed just getting in and out of our subdivision so it might be wise
to possibly even do another study once the Eagle Road widening has been
completed, just to get a more accurate view of the traffic.
MacCoy: Brings up a good point. Anyone else have something to say?
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Martin: Here again, the traffic. I can sit here and filibuster all night, but honestly,
the traffic. Currently right now, honestly, at about 5 o'clock-ish-yeah three
minutes or less-but Mr. Durkin got longer than three minutes, trust me. Around
5 o'clock-ish your major traffic hour times, no kidding, the traffic comes back to
about here, currently right now, with out the mall there, right, our subdivision
main entrance that I always come out of and exit, 90% of the time is right here.
You add a mall with people coming in, it's going to be a zoo. Alight back here is
not going help. There going to have this extra lane that-de-acceleration lane,
that people can come in. We will never be able to leave our subdivision. You
know? It will be a major fight to get in and out. All I'm saying is, does Meridian
truly need something this huge? Do we need it? You know? I get the feeling
from looking at the commissioners and stuff, like over here these two, it's a done
deal in their mind. It makes me wonder why we the citizens even came. You
know, it's like-and especially for Mr. Borup, buddy you didn't do your homework
and you're screwed, that's the honest feeling I get from Mr. Borup with his
questions about, didn't you notice the signs, didn't you do all this, and all I'm
saying is be considerate of the people that live here. That's all we are asking.
Be considerate. All he is out for is money, and here again, that's the American
way. Like the one gentleman brought us, that is our sanctuary, that's where we
go to get away and no our sanctuary has become the hub of Meridian. Where
everybody and their flea bitten dog is going to be. You can guarantee you that at
night trucks will be idling. No body wants to wake up at 7:30 in the morning and
here a truck backing up beep, beep, beep, beep, beep. Any questions?
De Weerd: Yes, I have a comment for you Mr. Martin. We have a certain set of
guidelines that we can only respond to your testimony is being heard and
hopefully the developer of the project is going to be working with you. We have a
specific set of guidelines that we can only adhere to. I stood up exactly where
you are, I know the emotion that you are feeling, because I felt the same. What I
didn't know is-the only, the limits that we up here can make decisions on. I
understand how your quality of life get effected. I have an empty field behind my
house. Fortunately, or unfortunately, it's residential. So I will be looking at more
who my backyard neighbors are going to be. Sometimes that can be even
worse. This was here before that subdivision. We're going to be making a
decision based on something that was already zoned, that was already
determined before you moved in. I'm really sorry that you did not know that. I
didn't know it either. I saw the signs, I knew a shopping mall, I thought it was a
strip mall, you know, I had no idea what it was. The only thing we can do is try
and make decisions that will help ease it for you. Mr. Borup, or Commissioner
Borup, has made some good points along the way we can only deal with the
things that are set before us and the decisions that have already been made and
the plan for the city. We want to make it as nicely planned as we can, but we
have our limits too. Because those property owners have their rights as well.
Martin: So, can I ask the question? The commission, do you guys have the
power or no, to say he can do it or not? You guys have the power, right.
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Regardless that it's his land, right? No.
Prior: Theses folks may make, may I Mr. Chairman?
MacCoy: Yeah, go ahead. I was going to do it, but you go ahead.
Prior: Merely sir, this is going to be a recommendation to the City Council, one
way or the other. What they do have the authority to do is tell this developer,
after hearing all of this testimony and I assume directing me to prepare Findings
of Fact and Conclusions of Law. The recommendation can be for a denial of this
project or can be for an approval of this project, but it is merely a
recommendation that is sent on to the City Council sir. Once again, you will be
given another opportunity when this project goes on to the City Council to submit
further testimony to that group of folks, then offer testimony at that hearing as
well. So, yes, this commission can have a recommendation to deny this project
or approve the project, depending on how they feel about it. It is merely a
recommendation to the City Council and our City Council has the final
recommendation.
Borup: I might add also that the recommendations that come from here need to
be in compliance with the city ordinances, the comprehensive plan and in this
case apre-conditional use that was granted. So, the decision we make need to
be in line with those rules and regulations and city ordinances. The flexibility,
one of the reasons we are looking for testimony from all of you, because there
are some areas where we can influence. The commissioner already mentioned
the rights of both property owners, I don't think you would be happy if we came
and said you can't plant a tree in your backyard or put up a swing set or whatever
else you want to do. Those are rights you had when buying that property, these
people bought this property with existing zoning and existing usage, and they
assumed they would be able to develop it in line with what the zoning when they
bought it. Now, the area that there is some flexibility is what they put on it and
how they put on it. I for one feel that there's some obligation on proper buffering
and things like that. So, that is one of the reasons we are looking for the
testimony and input, as far as...
Smith: If we outright turned it down our attorney can address that but there has
to be some strong legal bases for us to do that. The City Council has a little
more flexibility there, they can change the ordinance. They can make a new one.
We can not do that.
Martin: The last question I had was-can-apparently you commissioners can't,
but can the City Council determine how big this will be, or no? Store wises and
stuff like that. Do they have that power.
Borup: I don't know if I can answer, other than the size of the property normally
determines that. The building can be so much percentage, the parking so much
MERIDIAN PLANNIN~ ZONING COMMISSION
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percentage, in this case, the landscaping area needs to be so much for
percentage. So those are what will limit you as to size and what can be done,
the overall acreage of the project.
MacCoy: Mr. Martin, will you...
Smith: I'm not done.
MacCoy: Go ahead Commissioner Smith.
Smith: I think I better calm down a minute. I don't appreciate being told because
of my body language or the particular questions that I have asked, being accused
of having some project being presented in front of this commission as being a
done deal. In fact, I have been accused of projects being done deals, in other
words, out the door, I'm not going to approve them before the person up here
presenting not the other way around. I think any one of my fellow commissioners
will tell you, I am as critical or more so of the applicants that come up here in
front of this commission. I'm a licensed architect and I do this kind of thing for a
living everyday, so I know what to look for in a project and I know what to look for
in planning and ask for. Quite frankly, I resent the fact that you make us out to
be the bad guys up here, because we are going to approve a project that has
been zoned and approved five, six years ago because your realtors told you
whatever they had to tell you to close the deal. I'm not the bad guy, I listen to
this month after month, people coming up, testifying against a project going on a
piece of property adjacent to them because their realtor told them it was going to
be office building. We just went through this with Eagle Partners, doing a
Chevron across from St. Lukes. Same stories, I hear it month after month after
month. You peoples issues isn't with this commission approving or disapproving
this project, your issue is with your realtors lying to you. That's where it is. That
is all I'm going to say about that.
Martin: Just my rebuttal back to you is. You answered my question, you guys
are going to approve it. That's what I needed to know.
Smith: Nobody has-we haven't voted on this. I have no idea how Mr. Borup is
going to vote. I have no idea how commissioner De Weerd is going to vote. I
don't even know what I'm going to do yet. I think this parcel of land has been
planned for retail development, I've know about it for three, four years. This is in
complete compliance with what was approved there in 1991. The thing that
boggles my mind is how we can get a residential development in the middle of an
industrial area. To me that is bad planning and zoning.
Martin: I agree, but you guys have...
Smith: But, this didn't happen and evolve around a residential area, this
residential area was plunked in the middle of industrial. In fact, your home is
MERIDIAN PLANNING ~ ZONING COMMISSION •
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PAGE 66
zoned light industrial. The property that your home sits on is zoned light
industrial. Did you know that?
Martin: I did not.
Smith: Welt, I was shocked when the first in home day care came through in
your sub division and it was zoned light industrial. What are we doing with
residential in light industrial for.
Martin: Honestly, that's what I thought somebody brought up is, yes that's been
zoned that way, but now we possibly have a chance to maybe hold up and
reconsider this, right? Because like you said you have commercial, right smack
dab with the residential in the center of it. That is lousy planning and that's all I'm
saying. You know.
Smith: Fairview and Eagle are going to grow commercially. That's the nature of
the streets, the development is going to go that way. It's conducive to the area.
Martin: Yeah, but what about across the street where the feed lots at, there's no
homes over there. See what I'm getting at. But they put it by the homes. The
other lots just feed lot, and I know they don't own the land, hey-
Smith: What we do up here is listen to your concerns and what the issues you
have with the development. We try to work something out that is fair to the
developer, it's fair to the home owners. Sure this is adversely going to effect
your neighborhood, I know it is. Would you rather see this come in piece meal
developed. Personally, this has access from one side of the site all the way to
the other one. This isn't these little strip centers like you see down Fairview, one
right after the other, right after the other.- Granted maybe the scope of it may be,
you know, huge, it's a big project, it's huge. I didn't really grasp it, right away
myself. It is a humongous development and there is going to be development
here, unless you want to buy the land...
Martin: I don't have a couple of billion left hanging around.
Smith: I don't either, but...
(Inaudible)
Smith: I sympathize with you and I'm really sorry, but we just hear the same
thing every month, with the same reasons coming up. I don't know what to say,
but if I was going to get upset about it, I know who I'd be getting upset with. It
wouldn't be the developer.
Martin: Well, it's not his fault. It's not his fault. Hey, thanks.
MERIDIAN PLANNIN~ ZONING COMMISSION
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MacCoy: Before you leave, I would like you-have you know, there are people
here in this room that are your neighbors and friends that this is-as you know,
we're a new commission as of this past year. We were not here in 1991. There
is quite a bit of difference, I just want you to understand that all the people up
here are qualified these days. We didn't have that back in 1991, so things were
done which we have no control over, but we are professional people, we deal
day in and day out with the same things we have been talking about tonight.
This is our lifestyle and we've been around for a long number of years.
Commissioner Smith is right, we hear this quite a bit and what we do, this for
your own information, we are very critical of ourselves, we try to balance out what
the commercial side is for our city and what the people need. That's where we
think we sit. We are in the balance, we have a hard time with this, we go home
and think about this, we worry about this, you may not think so, but we do. We
hear about you and everybody else here. Igo home and I can picture you and I
can picture other people here many weeks away and what you had to say.
These people do that, they take this very personally and to the heart. This is
going to be a hard decision for us. We want to do the most we can for you
within the law and give you what you have because you have already bought the
home. You're not going to pick up and leave like you would a tent. So we want
to be as best we can in the decisions we make so that you people can come off
with the best deal we can make for you. So we are going to stand on the buffer
zone for you. We appreciate hearing how you view this. You give us ideas that
we can work with and so on. So, don't feel this was in vain and what you heard
from our council down below here on the other end of this table, do be sure to go
and keep track of this thing and at that time you can have your say again. I
stress for you to do the same thing you did for us tonight. You have a good
chance of doing what you want to do. We will do what we can for you before that
happens. Thank you very much.
Martin: Thank you.
De Weerd: You are certainly invited to also-they will updating our
comprehensive plan if you want to put some input on where things should be and
where they shouldn't be. We'd invite you to attend. Because that is what we
need, we need citizens input. Fortunately, or unfortunately if you get too involved
you might be sitting up here too.
MacCoy: She does raise a real good point, there is a visionary plan and program
that is now working within our city for the year 2000, 2010,2015 and the one
beyond and that comes from just you people coming out to those meetings.
What hurts us is the fact we work on these commissions and we ask the public to
tell us what they want and we get one, two, three people period. Then you
expect us to have the real brain power to design everything and you're going to
like it. You ought to come out to these meetings. They are going on and
advertised in the newspaper. We have done everything we can do to get people
to come out and it's difficult. It's very disappointing to us when we don't hear
MERIDIAN PLANNIN~ ZONING COMMISSION •
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PAGE 68
from you people. Okay, we need to move on to another subject. At this time, is
there-oh by the way, excuse me, I'm glad you raised your hand. Come back
and make your comments, because we have some questions.
Durkin: I'm going to respond to some questions that were directed to you, for me.
Is that okay. I encourage anyone to contact the land group, it is a local company,
we have hired them to make recommendations to us for landscaping, berming,
widening the area. They are on the application and anyone is welcome to call
them, they do have books in the library on proper buffering. My response to the
snow removal question, we can control the hours of sweeping, we are obligated
under state-city ordinance to keep the parking lots safe at all times. So when it
snows, we have to plow. If it snows at two in the morning, we plow at two in the
morning, if it snows at two in the afternoon, we plow at two in the after noon.
Snow removal can be a 24 hour operation, sweeping isn't. As far as the truck
entries, they will enter around the perimeter of the building, from a variety of-
there will be two way truck traffic in the back. We have different docks facing
different ways, so that-our plan is to have the trucks go either directions, but
they will go around the buildings around the back of the store and out-I can't
perceive the circumstances that there would be traffic through the sub division.
For trucks, I don't know if it's signed prohibiting trucks or not. The trucks service
will be going out on Highway 55 or Fairview, I would imagine. The traffic study
question, does it take into consideration Eagle Road, it does. This man is an
Engineer and Scientist that prepared the study and they take into consideration,
not only the completion of Eagle Road, but the completion of other road projects
in the coming years and how they will effect this property or this traffic in this
area. Real quick reference to Albertson's Market Place, I just want you to know
that Albertson's Market Place is divided in half. If you are facing north the
Albertson's store is owned by Albertson's the shopping center to the left is owned
by others. The trees in front of the Albertson's store are lovely. It's their flagship
store #101 and I have no idea how they do it, but they are lovely. The trees and
landscaping in front of the shopping center are not. That is a very good example,
so I frankly don't know how Albertson's does it. It's a good example looking to
the left or the west side of that development.
De Weerd: I'll tell you what they are the most popular parking spots too.
Durkin: Under the trees, I bet. That's just my quick answer to the questions that
were directed to me, I think. I continue to be available for questions.
MacCoy: Okay, thank you very much.. With that...
MARGUERITE BEAR, 3576 E PRESIDENTIAL, MERIDIAN, ID 83642, WAS
SWORN IN BY ASSISTANT ATTORNEY.
Bear: I just wanted to know how you determine who you notified for this hearing.
I live in this neighborhood, I don't live on the perimeter, thank goodness, but 1 do
MERIDIAN PLANNIN~ ZONING COMMISSION
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PAGE 69
live in the neighborhood, it effects me. The traffic particularly and the noise are
going to effect me. I can hear the Meridian Speedway from my house, so I know
the noise is going to effect me. We weren't notified of this hearing, except
someone called us about it. I was wondering when this comes up to City
Council, are they going to notify our whole neighborhood or just select a few to
be notified.
MacCoy: Council, do you want to make a statement?
Berg: According to state statute we notify people within 300 feet of the adjacent
land. Now, we do notice it in the Valley News, which is our city paper, which
according to state statute is what the paper we advertise in. We hope with
Homeowners Associations and groups, that they would get together and notify
other people. It's just like day cares are obligated to notify within a certain
perimeter of the day cares that go in or child care or home care. We are just
governed by that thing. Where we put the limits if we start notifying people, I
don't know we could be sending out hundreds of notices to certain people, but
we are obligated by state statute. That's what we do.
Bear: But this is in a closed area that's effected our egress and ingress.
Berg: I understand what you are saying and it's not any different than any other
type of development, but hopefully with Homeowners Association and friends
and neighbors, in your group you can notify people.
Bear: Well, the problem is the development is not complete yet so our
Homeowners Association is still in the hands of the developer. I don't have a
complete list of names and address of people to go to. My limited knowledge of
my neighbors is jus my immediate neighbors, I don't know anybody who lives on
the other streets and they don't know me. So, it's hard to get the word out, there
have probably been four times as many people here if we had been notified, is
what I'm getting at. It effects us all.
Berg: Things that are built on the other side of town effects me. I don't argue
that it doesn't impact you one way or another. Developments can impact
schools, my son goes to this school, there is a lot of different things. What I
guess I'm saying is that you have to adhere to you neighbors, read the Valley
News, you can come and pick up an agenda for Planning and Zoning or City
Council meetings, we have them at City Hall. Call down here, ask about
particular projects.
Bear: Is that 300 feet still pertain to when the City Council has their hearing.
Berg: Yes, that is according to state statute.
Bear: So, we won't be notified for that either.
MERIDIAN PLANNIN~ ZONING COMMISSION
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Berg: If you are not...
Bear: We don't get the Valley News, so there you go.
De Weerd: But you could call the city and ask when it's going to be scheduled
and...
Bear: Now we know that it is coming up.
De Weerd: City Council meets the 1 st and 3rd Tuesday of every month, so you
could call before this next Tuesday or more realistic probably the 3rd Tuesday of
August and see if it is on the agenda. That's probably your best bet. Unless you
can get one of these that were noticed to give them you phone number and say
please let me know.
Bear: Okay, thank you.
MacCoy: One other thing too, in an active neighborhood, I lived in one that we
didn't have a Homeowners Association, so we felt that we needed to know what
was going on in our community and it wasn't 300 feet it was miles away. We
have a commission of a number of people neighbor wise, that as soon as we find
out from the city they go out and put handout flyers and also knock on doors.
Last time we had to come together, we had over hundreds to show up just
because it was door to door, neighbor to neighbor, because we thought it would
concern us, which it did or at the time we though it did.
De Weerd: It is posted on the property as well.
MacCoy: Yes, it has to be posted on the property, these signs. So you can just
look as you go around.
Bear: Thank you.
MacCoy: Anybody else before we close this? Okay I'm going to...
Borup: Mr. Chairman, before you close the public hearing, I would like to have a
little bit of discussion maybe among the commissioners.
MacCoy: Alright, go ahead.
Borup: I think maybe it's appropriate for us to discuss some concerns or
comments or whatever. For one thing I think our attorney would like to have that
for his findings. From what I can gather, other than the project not going in, the
biggest concerns seem to be traffic, buffering and what traffic and noise.
Durkin: Traffic and noise, I agree.
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Borup: Before maybe get into that, I had a question on the parking, the volume
of that area and the view. I guess, Commissioner Smith you had mentioned that
several times and the question I have is from what angle and what direction is
the concern. Looking at it from the birds eye view there is a lot of asphalt there.
No doubt. I'm trying to picture it, the view, from Eagle Road and we're looking
through two walls of trees. From Eagle and Fairview there are the trees all along
the perimeter plus the trees on the perimeter of the parking. Especially once
those are matured, so the view from the corridors from Eagle and Fairview-to
me it looks like many of you will be seeing a forest. Looking from the stores and
driving around the parking lot, it's a sea of asphalt and cars. I'm not sure which
one is the biggest concern, probably both.
Smith: Probably both.
Borup: From what perspective were you looking at it from. From looking at the
outside of the project or from...
Smith: Outside the project.
Borup: Do you have a concern from outside the project.
Smith: Yeah, I do.
Borup: As far as seeing nothing but asphalt.
Smith: For some time, before this landscaping matures and it's going to be
years.
Borup: I agree. You can't go in with mature landscaping.
Smith: I guess the screening from the street will, it will get less and less
obtrusive over time, but I think it's still going to be there and I think you still are
going to-there is a lot of deciduous trees that-well you've got deciduous tress
in the parking lot, you're going to see it anyway during the winter, but I guess I
just would like to see the scale of these lots get broken up with some more
landscaping.
Borup: That`s in line with the PUD, I believe. The staff has already stated the
percentage that the percentage isn't there. As far as the perimeter, you've got a
solid wall of trees. You can't put anymore in. I don't remember-well, for one
thing as it has been stated, we haven't seen a project of this size, but even some
of the smaller ones, I don't remember any with this many trees around the
perimeter this close together. The size of the project dictates that. To me there
seems to be a pretty nice visual buffering from the two major streets.
Smith: I wish I had my scale with me. Do you have an engineer scale?
MERIDIAN PLANNING~D ZONING COMMISSION •
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PAGE 72
Borup: The applicant say that 12 feet on the trees, so is that what you wanted to
check, to see if that's-
Smith: Yeah, some of them are-I just wanted to see what size they were drawn
at. Sometimes, you can draw them out of scale a little bit. I'm not saying that
they are I just would like to know what-
Borup: No, I don't believe that they are 12 feet.
Smith: It says 1:100.
Borup: Well, I'm just looking at the parking spacing and they're, I'm assuming
they're nine feet or ten.
Smith: Nine wide and probably 18-20 feet-
Borup: Nine is a minimum, looking at some of those trees along the perimeter
they're three parking spaces between them. That is more than 12, maybe there
needs to be-and maybe that is part of why-they are designed for 12 feet and
the trees aren't on there, maybe that's why, because they have spread them out
more than that.
Smith: Well, if you look at the depth of that berm too, and on the plan the trees
are all pretty much in line and they are not really staggered in and out. That's
where you start to get some blockage of your visual through that.
Borup: My bigger concem I think is the buffering from the residential. That is
why I thought maybe-we're looking at ten feet, ten feet right now. I think Mr.
Durkin had mentioned... some mention of a 20 foot (Inaudible) with some
staggered trees, which would definitely have a lot more appeal to me. I think that
is probably the biggest from what I have gathered, the greater concem from
homeowners from homeowners is the buffering from-besides the traffio---is the
buffering against their neighborhoods. I don't know if we need more information
from a noise engineer, but a few years ago I looked in on some freeway buffering
and the trees had a, from what I remember, had a lot higher effect than a fencing
did.
Smith: Well, I'm not measuring every tree. Most of these are drawn about 25
feet apart, on the drawing and, you know, granted this is a 1:100 scale and it's
difficult to show this kind of thing accurately at this scale. That is what they scale
out at.
Borup: Actually that is probably right for a shade tree.
Smith: Yeah, I don't know what the right (Inaudible)...
MERIDIAN PLANNING ZONING COMMISSION •
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PAGE 73
Borup: You don't want them growing into each other.
Smith: Well, I have some Maples that are that far apart and they are growing into
each other, but it has been 20 years.
Borup: Given the fact that this-you know what is identified as gateways to the
city. That's one of the reasons I would like to see a nicer wider landscape area
along the street, also have the parking lot broke up a little bit. I'm very concerned
about the screening with the residential along the back and proximity of some of
the buildings on the west side of the-along Eagle seem to be fairly close there.
Smith: Close to the buildings...
Borup: Yes, Eagle is a lot closer than the ones on Fairview. Maybe that is what
Mr. Durkin might have been referring to is a variable buffering along there. I
didn't ask him that question, but t was assuming he would...
Smith: Can I borrow your scale again?
Borup: ...some deeper buffering where areas may be a little bit noisier and a
little less buffering on some of the stores where that wouldn't be a factor. That is
going to take a lot of coordination to maybe work on that, guess that is one of the
reasons we have a staff, huh?
Smith: The building 2F is around 35 feet off the property.
Borup: What was 35?
Smith: 2F. Same thing with 1A. Those are the two closest ones. Then on the
north the 4C is 50 feet. There are some-the distance between the trees varies
but there is some in the back here that are center to center, 20 feet. The grocery
store, oh yeah, that's got a little pop up that's 35 feet-maybe a little over 35 feet,
little bit more. It's hard to tell at this scale what it is exactly.
Borup: Well then, what are we looking at to be the best way to address the
buffering? Twenty foot definitely seems like a better situation than ten feet.
Smith: I would like to see the neighbors be able to get involved, there seemed to
be a couple of them that had an interest expressed in finding out about noise
barriers and what the different ones were.
De Weerd: Well, the applicant had mentioned that if we wanted to make it a
condition, that he would work with staff and the homeowners. I feel comfortable
with that, is that a logical or realistic conviction to place on that Bruce?
Freckleton: Mr. Chairman, Commissioner De Weerd, I think it probably is
MERIDIAN PLANNIN~ ZONING COMMISSION •
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PAGE 74
reasonable. We would probably-want to consult with people who had a better
understanding of the noise issue. If we need to call in certain people that have
more expertise in this issue then that would probably be appropriate. I think it
would be a very good idea to involve the residents.
De Weerd: Can we do that through Mr. Yorgenson or since you're the
Homeowners president.
Yorgenson: Whether we call it a national formal association meeting the
convenience of the subdivision does allow for special meetings, which the
association would handle notifying every homeowner in the subdivision, inviting
them to attend, we would find a venue be large enough to handle sufficient. Our
last homeowners meeting was in the fall of last year and we have a lot of interest.
As you can see, there is a lot of concerned citizens here. So percentage wise,
back at the last homeowners meeting was 40%, I would dare say we would have
close to 90% attendance at this meeting. Currently, there is about 150 homes
built and residing in the subdivision. As far as handling the timing of schedule,
we could do that, whatever you ask we-the association, representing the
homeowners also, I know they would like to do that and we can accommodate
that.
De Weerd: Bruce would staff be able to, and Mr. Durkin, meet with the
Homeowners Association perhaps on the buffer issue, if this were made a
condition.
MacCoy: Would you like to step up and answer that in the mike?
Freckleton: I don't know what is appropriate here, sir.
De Weerd: I don't even know if I can ask these questions. I've been told not to
whisper...
Freckleton: Could you ask again.
De Weerd: Is it a possibility if we make this a condition to work with staff and the
Homeowners Association on the buffer issue, the 50 foot buffer maximum, I
mean 20. Oops! I showed my true colors.
Durkin: As my suggestion earlier, if there was a-I encourage you to come up
with a motion that gives flexibility to the staff after taking further input from the
neighbors. If there was a motion saying the landscape buffer shall not be not
less than 20 feet, unless it is approved by staff as a result of the neighbors input
and the developers input. I think that gives the staff the full authority, obligates
me to do a minimum of 20 feet. I personally feel there is some variations and we
can have some further discussions in a more appropriate environment.
MERIDIAN PLANNIN~ ZONING COMMISSION •
JULY 14, 1998
PAGE 75
De Weerd: Perhaps you can bring facts for the homeowners to feel more
comfortable too.
Borup: I have a question for Mr. Durkin while he is up here. He made a
reference earlier providing trees to some of the homeowners bordering the
property. I guess that had a lot of interest to me, but I don't know to what extent,
I mean you've got-
Durkin: I'll commit right now.
Borup: You are probably aware of how many lots you have along there
and...The other problem we may have is, I don't know if we can require off site
improvements or buffering or anything to that extent. To accomplish that, to me it
could be a way for neighbors to gain some buffering and also beautify their yard
at the same time. (Inaudible)
Durkin: The plan that we submitted has 979 3-inch caliber trees, that's 317 trees
shy of the ordinance according to the engineer and according to my interpretation
of the ordinance. I don't think there is any dispute that we are short of the
ordinance. With the amount of modifications that we are talking about tonight I
suspect we will have more trees in this project so I think that 317 number will
shrink. I offer tonight, I don't know how...
(END OF TAPE)
Durkin: ...the project, I commit to on record tonight, but we will provide that
number of trees either for this project or the adjacent property owners.
De Weerd: You know, it might be appropriate when you are working with the
homeowners, that you make that offer I'm sure there will be homeowners that
would take you up on that, so they do indeed have that buffer. I guess in interest
of moving this along, it looks like it is getting kind of late. I don't know. I'm the
newest member on this commission, so bear with me. I think that I would prefer
to see this continued until our next meeting and in the intern maybe staff and Mr.
Durkin can meet with the homeowners to clear up the buffering issue and that
way we will have the ACHD report by then and we can take action at our next
meeting. I know that's not what you wanted to hear but I think the homeowners
will feel better about it and being able to know exactly what that buffer is going to
be. I know personally, I feel better after seeing the ACHD report.
Smith: Is that a motion?
De Weerd: If that sounded like one I would make it.
Smith: Second. I think we need to carry it to a date certain.
MERIDIAN PLANNING ZONING COMMISSION •
JULY 14, 1998
PAGE 76
De Weerd: I do move that we, oh...
Freckleton: Mr. Chairman, members of the commission, we did have a lot of
comments from staff as Mr. Durkin mentioned. These comments were from
myself and also from our Planning and Zoning Administrator, Shari Stiles. Shari
is not here this evening. One thing I'd, Mr. Durkin did have some objections to
some of the items, one thing I think might be helpful for staff as well as for
yourself is if we could get him to submit a written response to just reiterate some
of his objections.
De Weerd: Could we get that off of the minutes?
Freckleton: Can we have that public record.
Prior: I'm sorry, I was dozing off.
Freckleton: If we have the applicant submit just a written response basically to
staff comments, just reiterating what he-the objections.
Prior: To continue this public hearing, if that is your intention, we can submit
further evidence at the next meeting. If it is your intention to close the public
hearing then the record is set and it is closed. It is your call.
(Inaudible)
MacCoy: We haven't closed it yet.
Prior: But that motion hasn't been acted on.
MacCoy: No.
Prior: That is basically where it stands Bruce. If they want to continue this public
hearing the gentleman can submit comments and-to you and we can have
those entered as part of the public record and considered in the conditional use
permit. If you are going to close this public hearing then we will not accept any
further comments and this conditional use permit will be judged on what has
been stated on the record as of today, sir.
MacCoy: Not yet, we haven't closed it yet.
De Weerd: We just ended with so we could talk before it was closed and...
Borup: He was trying to close it.
De Weerd: He was trying, but we didn't let him.
MERIDIAN PLANNING ZONING COMMISSION
JiJLY 14, 1998
PAGE 77
MacCoy: Okay, back to the commissioners now, what is your desire.
De Weerd: Well, I don't know are you done Bruce or...
Freckleton: Yes, thank you.
De Weerd: Okay, we can get his responses from the minutes or do you need an
official response to your items?
Freckleton: I think an item by item would be nice. Seems like we kind of glazed
over a few of the items. There were some that were-from our perspective we
figured that we were going. to get some...
De Weerd: Perhaps, if we continue this and you and Mr. Durkin and the
homeowners get together or, and/or you and Mr. Durkin get together perhaps
those are issues that you can address before the next meeting. Is that feasible?
Freckleton: I guess it depends on what you plan on doing tonight. If you
continue this..,
De Weerd: It is probably my intention, personally I can say for me, I would like to
see this continued so these issues can be worked out and we can see ACHD's
report before we ask the assistant city attorney to drawn up findings.
Smith: Make a motion, I'll second it.
Freckleton: I'll put it this way then, if it is your desire and it is your motion to
continue this, I would like to have that entered into record, the written response.
Borup: That's consistent with other projects we've...
MacCoy: Is it required? We always said that it has to be...
Freckleton: We typically do this with a plat, but there is quite a few issues on this
one that seem to be going back and forth on.
MacCoy: I think it's required.
Borup: I think he addressed it and it's in the minutes. He went through number
by number and I think addressed-and we are probably down to a handful that
there was different opinions on.
MacCoy: It is asked for written return on that comment sheet. That's what we
use it for.
Freckleton: It was not a specific requirement of the-in this staff report, Mr.
MERIDIAN PLANNING ATTD ZONING COMMISSION •
JULY 14, 1998
PAGE 78
Chairman, I'm just saying that it would be nice to have that if possible.
Borup: I might just...
De Weerd: Well, I don't want to require it. Again, that is my personal opinion. I
think that you can get it off the minutes and you have some time to work with
these peoples before our next public hearing and also the homeowners. I would
like to just make my motion and move on. I would like to continue this public
hearing for the conditional use permit until our August 11th meeting.
MacCoy: Okay, will you hold it one moment here, we had a motion I thought
and...
De Weerd: I didn't officially make it. I was just making a...
MacCoy: Well, commissioner Smith seconded it.
Smith: That was unofficially though.
MacCoy: Okay, thank you. Alright, start again now. Who is going to make the
motion?
De Weerd: I will just restate whatever I have been saying, I'd like to continue this
public hearing for the conditional use permit for a regional shopping center by
Dakota Company. Inc. until our next Planning and Zoning meeting which is
August 11.
Smith: Second.
MacCoy: Any discussion?
De Weerd: Can I make maybe a condition on my motion.
MacCoy: It has to be seconded if you do.
Smith: You want to revise your motion?
De Weerd: I would like to revise that.
MacCoy: Alright.
De Weerd: Do you .want to withdraw your second. So I can revise my motion.
Well, I would just like to make it a condition that Mr. Durkin, staff and the
homeowners get together before August 11th to discuss the buffering.
Smith: And...
MERIDIAN PLANNING ZONING COMMISSION •
JULY 14, 1998
PAGE 79
De Weerd: And that we have ACHD's study.
Smith: And the other comments too, staff comments.
De Weerd: And any staff comments that the developer did not agree with.
Borup: Do we need a second on that?
Smith: Second.
Borup: And that was what I was going to add for -probably the only pertinent
comments from the applicant would be those that he has some differing on. I
think that's what Bruce wanted anyway. All the others have agreed with that
really don't need to go through and answer those. I think that probably would
help. Again is noise is one thing. I was just thinking back, I sat through a couple
of hours last fall with Home Depot and when they were doing their conditional
use permit on a noise issue. Two issues from the neighbors there and they had a
concrete wall on the majority of the property. But the only two noise complaints
that I can remember from that was forklifts with the back up bell ringing, that was
bothering people, and then the trucks idling all night. Other than deliveries, they
didn't seem to be a problem with the delivery trucks. You know a lot of the other
-any of the other traffic. But just the forklift that had a back up -which was a
OSHA law. They didn't have any choice on that and apparently they did have
some trucks coming in that were idling throughout the night, so they weren't
unloading until the next morning. 1 think some of those things have been
addressed. The other thing I might point out to the commissioners is maybe it
would be good for all of us to go through and read the conditional use permit that
was issued in '91. There are a couple of things that probably are pertinent. One
that was mentioned is the design review and the other future neighboring uses is
also mentioned. I think that's two things we are concerned on.
MacCoy: Any other discussion?
De Weerd: Now I feel very comfortable we are continuing this.
MacCoy:. Okay.
Prior: Mr. Chairman, I'm having a difficult time. I don't believe Commissioner De
Weerd you can make a condition of the gentleman pursuant to a public hearing
requiring him to meet with every one of the homeowners. I think you can request
that he meet with the homeowners and we continue this public hearing and you
can request they do these things. I don't think you can require that gentleman to
do those things. You can ask him to do it. And if he doesn't do it, it doesn't meet
to your satisfaction, you can vote to not approve -
MERIDIAN PLANNIN~ND ZONING COMMISSION •
JULY 14, 1998
PAGE 80
De Weerd: Oh, shit, do I need to restate this again?
Prior: I would just ask that you make a motion to continue the public hearing.
And then maybe ask the applicant to possibly meet with the homeowners
association and some of the home owners and request that he possibly meet
with them and submit the further testimony at the next public hearing.
De Weerd: Okay, I would like to restate my motion again. Okay, I'll withdraw it
first.
Smith: I withdraw that second.
De Weerd: I would like to continue this public hearing for the request for
conditional use permit for a regional shopping center by Dakota Company, Inc.
Smith: Second.
De Weerd: I would like to request that Mr. Durkin and staff and the home owners
all get together and kind of iron out the buffering. That would be really nice if you
could it be August 11"', which I continued the meeting until. That wasn't in my
motion, but please add it. It's getting really late. I'm sorry. Mr. Yorgason
apparently is the contact for the homeowners association, so -
(Inaudible)
De Weerd: I'm still asking like you told me to. He tells me and then I do it and
then it's wrong. Question, I'm ready for it.
MacCoy: All in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: All ayes.
Borup: I might just for general information and I don't know if all the
commissioners have this, we are concerned about buffering about
neighborhoods and it can be worked out for the best but personally when the
neighbors come in with demands and requests that are completely unreasonable
and it doesn't carry a lot of weight. I mean we've had some come in and talk
about building a 20 foot concrete wall and 200 feet with 900 trees and things like
that that aren't reasonable don't really accomplish a lot so I hope that something
can be worked out for both people's benefit and if it's something at least from my
standpoint that's something that I can think is reasonable for both parties, I'm
more inclined to support something like that.
De Weerd: And it sure seems the developer is interested in working with you,
and offering you extra trees that aren't going to be used in the buffering process
that perhaps can help ease the view in your backyard and buffer the sound so
P~ 2 ~~ /~1
~ ~, ErE~D
~~- 6 R' ,
_ AUb 1 1 1998
August 11, 1998 ~ ~~ ~~
CI'T'Y CF MERIDIAN
TO: Meridian City Planning and Zoning
RE: Plans for a new mall on Fairview and Eagle Rd.
Since I am unable to attend the public hearing scheduled for tonight regarding the
plans for this site, I would like to submit this letter in an attempt to voice my
concerns.
It is my opinion that putting a mall in this area will compromise the small
independently-owned businesses in Meridian that are the heart and soul of this
community and have managed to survive amidst the incredible growth of this area
over the years.
It's bad enough that property taxes for these select businesses on East First
Street are increasing 100%. Now the city is proposing a huge mall with chain
stores that have the buying power and corporate funds to blow the small
businesses of Meridian right out of business! These hard-working people have
struggled to survive amidst the addition of big chain stores such as Fred Meyer,
Rite-Aid, Albertsons, and soon Waremart and Home Depot. Is this any way to
pay back the people who kept this town alive while Boise was booming? The
people of Meridian have struggled for decades to remain a seperate entity from
Boise. We can't let Meridian become just an "extension of West Boise" now! ff
we allow this to happen, the small-town community atmosphere that so many of
us moved here for in the first place will evaporate. It would be a very sad sight
indeed to drive through the heart of Merdian to see only vacant buildings with "out
of business" signs in the windows...a virtual "ghost town" of our own making!
I propose the following: if it is absolutely necessary to build a giant mall to
compete with Boise Towne Square and take much-needed business away from
Karcher Mall in Nampa, another struggling community, include a covenant that
states that no tenants will be allowed in the mall that will directly compete
with any of the small independently-owned businesses already in existence
in Meridian.
Enough is enough. We've got to do something to save our lovely town.
Thank you for your consideration.
f~~~~~
Stacey Johnso , 1575 N. Santa Rosa Place, Meridian, 884-0492
p.s. In case you're wondering...yes, I am, in a way, personally affected by this
proposal. I am a part-time employee at The Herb Tree, a business on East First
Street that has been independently owned and operated by the same person for
15 years. I am 32 years old and I make minimum wage. It's not all about
money; it's also about doing what's right and doing what we love.
~~
8 i ~ 9g
~c ~
Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission
33 East Idaho Ave.
Meridian, Idaho 83642
Meridian, Idaho
August 8, 1998
RECE~D
AUG 1 1 1998
CITY OF MERIDIAN
Regarding: Approval of plans for Proposed Family Center at Meridian to be located at the
intersection of Eagle/Fairview.
To: Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission:
From a homeowner perspective, there are several observations and reservations
concerning the Proposed Family Center at Meridian.
1. Homeowners will need to use the same two primary streets as the new 800,000 sq. ft.
shopping mall traffic in order to get to and from our homes. During peak shopping
hours and the Christmas Rush, how will Emergency Services, school buses and
homeowners gain access to the residential azea without delay?
2. There will be high potential for increased traffic in the residential azea by mall
shoppers attempting shortcuts to avoid using the Eagle/Fairview corner or to get to
other sections of the mall.
3. The proposed Buffer Zone (20 feet with some trees) does not indicate the usage of
high berm areas similaz to those used by other building projects in the immediate azea
(example: new Blue Cross Building). Block wall fencing is not present either; only
wood fencing.
4. How will entrances to the residential area be separated from the shopping mall?
5. There will be a probable decline in value of homes akeady purchased and improved.
Homeowners have invested too much to become the back alley for one of the largest
shopping centers in Idaho.
6. If the shopping center was approved prior to the Residential Development, why did
the MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION approve the
Residential Development? Lack of PLANNING? Does this create the potential for a
protracted litigation process?
7. Why is another large shopping center necessary so close to Boise Towne Square? At
the very least, this new shopping center could be moved to a more appropriate
location.
•
8. The name being used to identify this lazge shopping center is called "The Family
Center of Meridian". It attempts to give the appearance of being family oriented
when in fact it will tend to drive families from its perimeter.
9. The new 800,000 sq. ft. shopping center plan is much larger than the low impact
Doctors and Dentists type of offices described eazlier.
10. We feel that it is not appropriate to place lazge high traffic discount/membership type
stores at this location. Has a study been made to determine the amount of traffic
already present at this vicinity and the amount of traffic increase brought about by the
presence of a new lazge shopping center.
As each of you considers the appropriateness of the proposed Family Center at Meridian,
please picture your own backyazd and how you would like one of Idaho's largest
shopping malls located at the end of your property.
Please give cazeful consideration to the type, size, quantity, and location of commercial
businesses to be allowed at the Eagle/Fairview location.
Thank you.
ce ely,
Q.
-c,~
John Phyllis Hanson
Crossroads Subdivision
3791 E. Eisenhower Drive
Meridian, ID 83642
cc: Meridian City Council
Channel ?News
p ~2 Co-~-~ fn~,
• ` REcENED
AU G 1 1 1998
CITY OF MERIDIAN
~~~~~ 0
SUSAN S. EASTLAKE, President
GARY E. RICHARDSON, Vice President
SHERRY R. HUBER, Secretary July 30, 1998
Pat Dobie
Dobie Engineering
777 Hearthstone Drive
Boise, Idaho 83702
Re: MCU-17-98 (Family Shopping.Center) -DRAFT Traffic Impact Study and
Addendum
Ada County Highway District (ACHD) staff and Idaho Transportation Department (ITD) staff
have discussed the referenced DRAFT traffic impact study. While the initial submission
responds to most of the issues of concern to the District, there are several considers which need
to be addressed for the final report. Please review the following topics and submit a revised
traffic impact study.
The needed information includes:
• I am afraid that we will need a complete new analysis of the submitted traffic study.
The submitted report uses the a trip generation rates from the 5th Edition of the ITE
Trip Generation Manual. We prefer the use the current 6th Edition of the manual. The
new trip rates are shown in the attached tables. Please update the analysis using the
new data.
• The submitted queue length information provides only the summary information and
none of the analysis information. It is clear that a queue length analysis is useless for
LOS F conditions. I suggest that you assume and arrival rate of 90% of capacity (as
taken from the unsignalized intersection capacity analysis). Those numbers should give
more meaningful results.
• Please remember that the queuing analysis is needed for each of the driveways. I will
also need the calculation sheets. Your summary table is no longer enough. Are the
driveway stacking dimensions adequate as shown in the applicant's submission?
• -Your report of the neighborhood meeting illustrated the neighbors' concerns with cut-
through traffic. You should anticipated that the neighbors will request a review of the
traffic analysis. The submission should include a brief discussion of this issue and an
identification of any needed mitigation measures.
• I doubt that many drivers will tolerate LOS F for left-turn exits from the unsignalized
intersections. I suggest that you assign only as much left-turn traffic as can be
accommodated at LOS E. Then reassign any left-over left-turning traffic to a signalized
intersection. You will have to ensure that the analysis of the signalized intersections
included the new volumes reassigned from the unsignalized intersections.
ada county highway districT
318 East 37th • Boise, Idaho 83714-6499
Phone_(208) 387-6100 • FAX (208) 345-7650 • E-mail: tellus@achd.ada.ld.us
• •
Pat Dobie
MCU-17-98 (Family Shopping Center)
July 30, 1998
Page 3
• Please recheck the same assumptions for the unsignalized intersection analyses for the
Fairview Avenue intersections.
• Neither the original draft report nor the addendum report include the capacity analyses for
the signalized Fairview/Records intersection. Please include that information in your
next draft. The figures show a signal at this location.
• As you noted, the site plan conflicts with the future concept of an Eagle/Fairview grade-
separated interchange. I have enclosed a generic drawing of the spatial requirements of (~
the typical interchange. Please help your client adjust the site plan accordingly.
• How does the proposed site support alternative transportation modes? What are the
facilities for bicyclists and park and ride needs?
• What proportion of the traffic on Pine/Executive is attributed to the project site? We
need to estimate the applicant's share of the roadway/signal improvement costs.
• What proportion of the traffic on the public street connecting to Fairview is attributed to
the project site? We need to estimate the applicant's share of the roadway/signal
improvement costs.
Please remember that this is also an important issue for the Idaho Transportation Department. It
is necessary to receive approval of the ITD District Traffic Engineer before ACRD can accept
the traffic study. Please contact Lance Johnson at 334-9340 for the requirements of ITD.
An
David Szplett
Development Services Division of Traffic Services
cc: Project File
Lance Johnson, ITD
Traffic Services
Dakota Development
r-
•
Shopping Center
(820)
Average Vehicle Trip Ends vs: 1000 Sq. Feet Gross Leasable Area
On a: Weekday, ,
Peak Hour of Adjacent Street Traffic,
One Hour Between 7 and 9 a.m.
Number of Studies: 96
Average 1000 Sq. Feet GLA: 292
Directional Distribution: 61 % entering, 39% exiting
Trip Generation per 1000 Sq. Feet Gross Leasable Area
Average Rate Range of Rates Standard Deviation
103 010 - 9.05' 1.40
Data Plot and Equation
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X Actual Data Points Fitted Curve ""-' Average Rate
Fitted Curve Equation: Ln(T) = 0.596 Ln(X) + 2.329
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Trip Generation, 6th Edition
1338 Institute of Transportation Engineers
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July 8, 1998
RECEIVED
J U L 1 3 1998
ACHD PLAN/DEV SVCS
~~2 ~.
RE°E~D
Dave Szplett AUG 1 1 1998
Ada County Highway District ~ CITY OF MERIDIAN
Planning and Development Division
318 East 37th
Boise, Idaho 83714-6499.
RE: Comments on Traffic Impact Study Family Center At Meridian, SH-55 and Fairview
Ave.
We received the traffic study prepared by Dobie Engineering for the proposed Family
Center at Meridian development on SH-55 and Fairview Ave. We appreciate the
opportunity to comment on this traffic study and development.
To analyze all surface transportation modes that would be affected by the development,
a Transportation Impact Study (TIS) is required. The purpose of the TIS is to document
the extent of the impact of the proposed development on the state highway system. A
copy of the Requirements for Transportation Impact Studies (revision 3/4/98) is
attached. The requirements of this document indicate that a "full" TIS is required. As a
result, additional information should be included in the study, such as:
• .Since this development falls within anon-attainment area, an analysis of the air
quality impacts should be included.
• An analysis of the links that will experience a directional increase of 250 ADT or 25
vehicles in the peak hour, such as I-84, should be included in the study.
• Information regarding potential traffic increases due to other developments planned
~or anticipated in the area.
• Provide traffic projections 5-10 years beyond build-out for both the build and no-build
alternatives.
• Queue length analysis at the traffic signal at Fairview and the proposed traffic signal
at Executive Dr.
• Recommended measures to maintain an acceptable level of service on Eagle Rd.
• Other recommendations i.e., acceleration, deceleration lanes, turn lanes etc.
• Description of geometric or striping changes to accommodate the development.
• Impacts to other transportation modes (bicycle, pedestrian and transit).
• Internal circulation and stacking.
• Complete~site plan showing locations and dimensions of the existing and proposed
approaches. ,
An Equal Opportunity Employer -
TRANSPORTATION DEPARTMENT
DISTRICT 3 P.O. 80X 8028 BO/SE, ID 83707-2028 (208) 334-8300
w
~.. , ,
1i~ J Ll0
i
eano
SUSAN S. EASTLAKE, President
GARY E. RICHARDSON, Vice President
SHERRY R. HUGER, Secretary
July 1, 1998
Pat Dobie
Dobie Engineering
777 Hearthstone Drive
Boise, Idaho 83702
Re: MCU-17-98 (Family Shopping Center) -DRAFT Traffic Impact Study
Ada County Highway District (ACRD) staff and Idaho Transportation Department (ITD) staff
have discussed the referenced DRAFT traffic impact study. While the initial submission
responds to most of the issues of concern to the District, there are several considers which need
to be addressed for the final report. Please review the following topics and submit a revised
traffic impact study.
The needed information includes:
• A queue length analysis is needed for each of the driveways. The level of service is
low and the traffic volumes are high. We need to know the forecast queue lengths in
order to plan the internal driveway circulation system. Are the dimensions adequate as
shown in the applicant's submission?
• Calculate the level of service of the FairviewlEagle intersection without the proposed
project. The forecast level of service under "existing plus project" conditions is below
the acceptable threshold value. We need to know how the proportion of the problem
which is attributed to this project.
• .Additional analysis is needed of the forecast traffic volumes for Eagle Road. Traffic
count data show that Eagle Road traffic is increasing at a rate much higher than
anticipated. It is clear that the APA forecasts are probably too low. Please review the
recent traffic~count information and revise the analysis accordingly.
• Identify mitigation measures needed to improve the forecast level of service under
"existing plus project" conditions which is below the acceptable threshold values. I don't
see how either agency can accept a project which creates Level of Service F conditions.
• Provide recommendations for acceleration or deceleration lanes or tapers at the various
site driveways on both Fairview and Eagle. These are high volume driveways and higher
speed limit roads. These conditions seem to support the need for
acceleration deceleration lanes or tapers.
• Identify the distances between the various drivew'a}:!public street intersections abuttir.`l
the site on Eagle Road and Fairview Avenue. These distances are needed to better
evaluate traffic operations.
ada county highway district
318 East 37th • Boise, Idaho 83714-6499
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RECE~D
DAKOTA AUG 1 1 1998
COMPANY , I N C . CITY OF MERIDIAN
August 11, 1998
Ms. Shari Stiles
Planning Director City Of Meridian
200 E. Carlton
Suite 201
Meridian, Idaho 83642
RE: Family Center At Meridian
Revised Site & landscaping Plans
Dear Ms. Stiles:
Enclosed are three copies of the revised site plan for the Family Center At Meridian
project dated August 7, 1998. Also enclosed are three copies of the revised landscaping
plan prepared by The Land Group, dated August 5, 1998.
Both plans reflect the revisions that have been made to incorporate your comments and
those of the surrounding neighbors. The landscape island width has been increased to 20'
along the entire frontage of Eagle Road and Fairview Avenue and also along the entire
rear perimeter of the project adjacent to the Crossroads subdivision. The tree count has
been increased to 1,240 trees which exceeds the one tree per 1,500 square feet of parking
lot pavement requirement. The ratio of landscape area has been increased to 12.8%. The
rear entry into Phase III off Records Drive has been eliminated and the landscape island
size increased. The length of the returns at the entries has been increased to comply with
the requirements of ACRD and provide additional landscape area.
Please review. Should you have any questions please do not hesitate to call. Thank you
for your cooperation.
Sincerely,
Tom Bauwens
VP Construction
Dakota Company, Inc.
For DDR -Family Centers
^
PHONE (208) 343-5223 FAX (208) 343-4954
380 EAST PARKCENTER BLVD.
SUITE 100
BOISE, IDAHO 83706