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HomeMy WebLinkAboutP&Z October 10, 2000Meridian Planning and Z~ ~ Cammissian Meeting ~ ~. October ~ 0, 2400 Page 2a Hatcher: What ever is on the bottom of that list gets bumped. We shouldn't be bumping the continuances. Borup: If it looks like its going to get bumped then we'll go onto our second meeting. Nary: Mr. Chairman, the applicant said they could be ready by November ~4 would they-- do they have a preference would they prefer- Borup: That's what I was trying to find out. Nary: Would you really rather have it on November ~ 4? Borup; Gkay. I guess the rest of the agenda we'll work out. So we inaudible } be prepared for a second meeting in November. Norton: INas that motion seconded? Centers: Yes I second it. Borup: Motion second any other discussion? All in favor? MGTIaN CARRIED: ALL AYES Item 4 Public Hearing; CUP-~~-~4l Request for a Conditional Use Permit to modify existing Canditional Use Permit of front landscape setback in a C-G zone by Sam Fishel for Centennial Motors Used Car Lot -west of Meridian Road on Franklin Road: Borup: Before we go onto Item~No. 4, a few came in. Item 5 and 6 -- the public hearing for Cedar Springs Subdivision was continued to November 14 by request of the applicant..lfthere is anyone here that would like totestifyon that we would open the hearing and take any testimony, but the applicant will not be doing a presentation. Item No. 4. Steve, I understand the staff presentation is verbal. We have nothing in writing. Siddoway: That's my understanding, too. First of all, the Centennial Motors -- sinceJerry Centers may or may not know where it is, its on Franklin Road on the south side, west of Meridian Road in this crosswhatched area here. Most of you will remember a variance request that came through within the last couple of months that reduce the landscape requirement against the existing mobile home park here from the required 20 feet between incompatible land uses to ~ o feet. That variance was approved. The applicant was also requesting a reduction from the 35-foot landscape set-back requirement to ~o feet. There was an existing Conditional Use Permit in place that required 35 feet. There was not a Meridian Planning and 7,. _ ~~g Commission Meeting ~' October 10, 2000 ~ _ ~. Page 25 variance that could be granted and had to modify the Conditional Use Permit. That is why this is before you tonight and really the main issue of it. the rest of the conditions of the Conditional Use Permit are not in question. This is a current site photo taken today. The yellow building in the center is the a licant's pp building took sort of a photo mosaic along Franklin Road so you could see the adjacent land uses. This would the area along Franklin Road right here in the front where the reduction from 35 feet to 20-foot has been requested. With that I will stand for questions or let the applicant make his case for the need for that. Borup: Steve was there -when this was before City Council there was ublic . P testimony and discussion etcetera? . Siddoway: This hasn't been before them. Borup: Wasn't a variance? Siddoway: The variance went before them but all that was discussed was the side variance. Borup: So~the Franklin Road variance wasn't discussed at all? Siddoway: l wasn't there. the applicant may be mare better suited to res and to ,. p that. I don t know if it was discussed at all or not. Certainly, the onl thin that Y g could have been decided -- that was that the side variance. Whether or not the front set-back was discussed -- Borup: ~inaudible~ realized they couldn't act on it because of an existing ~- oka . y Mr. Fishel, maybe you can enlighten us on some of tha#. Fishel; My name is Sam Fishel. My business is at 225 West Franklin Road in Meridian. Where do l begin? There is six very important points tha# l would like to make for the reasons for the set-back. It was discussed in Planning and Zoning and I was led to believe -- Borup; Planning and Zoning or City Council? Fishel; City Council, I was led to believe we could do it all atone time. Weil, we discovered that the City Council could only make a decision on the variance. The front parcel was an amendment to the Conditional Use Permit which onl Y the Planning and Zoning had authorization to do that. Therefore they ave me . g the setback on the side and they would have given me the setback on the front but they couldn't comply with that. That had to be your decision. I was set and ready to go - Borup: That's why I asked that because I think I was at that meeting 1 was remembering something else. Meridian PEanning and Z~°,. ~ Commission Meeting ~~ actat}er ~ 0, 2a0a Page 26 Fishel: I was set and ready to ga. The money has been allocated and everything and we're coming close to winter time. l'll give you the same points that [gave to the City Council. Number one, if you'll see the six-foot fence along the -- right there, yes. If it was zoned -- ifithat property line was zoned today, that would be a four-foot fence allowing view of the front line. As Mr. Nary said, "economics is economics" and you take 20 cars off the front line and I turn the cars at a 500 dollar profit every 60 days that's 60,OOO dollars a year that you would be taking away from my business. That's about the profit l've been making per year. Number two, the County took 25 feet of my property off the front line at pennies on the dollar. I had to turn around and give them a check for the sewer, the sidewalks and that kind of stuff. l don't know what the proper name far it was but I had to give them that money plus mare money for the improvements along Franklin road. Also that little lava rock building on the right hand side -- if you -that building is setting right at 20 feet from the sidewalk now. If we landscaped 35 feet in, then you wouldn't see my cars at all and as you know the front line is the most important part of an automobile used car lot ~- used car dealership. When you ride by, the first thing that you do is to Look at the front line to see if there is anything there that you would like to purchase. Economic reasons -also the landscaping all along on this side is like aten-feet across at Ciesler's. There's no landscaping in front of the Farmer's Club there. There's no landscaping on the other side and [would think that 20 foot would just Borup: At this point, isthere any35-foot landscaping along Franklin? Fishel; Troutner Business Park is the only place and this is where the confusion could be. We're not developing a parking lot and that's what it's been referred to as a parking lot. The parking lot is up next to the building. I have an outside showroom and that's what 1 need to do to get my cars closest to the front as possible and also make it as pretty. The plan that I have submitted - it complies with all City, State and County ordinances -the recommended trees -the recommended landscaping, even mare so than the requirements of the City because I would like to have a beautiful piece of property when it's developed. Yes, sir. And this is a 20-foot setback. With these signs here, here and up here, a new canopy here and landscaping - also I can utilize my lava rock building which that can inaudible} 225 '/z West Franklin and that will be -utilize that building also. vllith the 35-foot setback, it would be impossible. I couldn't -- Barup: Mr. Centers, da you have a question? Centers: That's 20-feet that you - Fishel: Yes, sir. This is 20 fleet. f.,.,. Meridian Planning and Z~~. Commission Meeting (~ October 10, 2000 Page 2l Centers: So the 15 feet -that you really put it in perspective and the way I look at it is five yards. Fishel: About the length of an automobile, I will carry 20 cars across the front there. if the County hadn't taken so much of my property and at the time that the Conditional Use Permit was permitted to me, Franklin Road was not developed at that time. When I had a Conditional Use Permit for the lava rock building there and for about ~0 cars -- well, when I bought the property and I [eased it out to the barn folks until f got a financial base strong enough to take over the whole property, l didn't realize that I had to have a Conditional Use Permit for the whole property. l thought it would be for a used car lat. So the City Ordinance Officer came out and told me that I had to have a Conditional Use Permit for the whole entire property. This was in 1997. So, in order for me to operate a business, 1 went ahead and submitted for the Conditional Use Permit and the Planning and Zoning told me at that time, "well, don't worry about it. Go in for a variance and after the road is put in, then you can submit another landscaping plan and do it that way." So that's what I did. I didn't realize that we had to go before you folks again. I thought I could do it all at one time, but anyway, l realize that two months later that we've - so I need your help. As you can see, backhoe is there. 1 spent roughly $15,000 up to the point that I've hooked up a sewer in 1995, immediately after tf~e street was put in. I started my project, but it cost a lotofmaney. First, I had to get engineering blueprints on for the water retainment on site. Well, that's another $3,600 and $5,500 for hooking up the sewer. Blueprints for -- this cost $3,500 for a computer enhancement. So, I've spent $15,000 and we dust put the drain in. We just got it done yesterday. That was for $13,500 for that, so we're looking $1 X5,000 to be spent on this property. I want it right, and we're doing it right as far as we can ga, but 1 do need to utilize the land as much as possible. The front line is the most important part of the - my showroom is inside the building there. Borup: Any other questions from any of the commissioners? Nary: Mr. Chairman. Borup: Commissioner Nary. Nary: I think actually my question is more for Steve and the staff. was that 35- foot buffer there was because the road was two lanes at the time when that was issued is that-- Fishel: Yes that is correct, Borup: Also the City was trying to do a little bit on 35 foot for entrance corridors or possible. F,, Meridian Planning and Zc~ ~ Commission Meeting ~ October ~ o, zoaa Page 28 Nary: That's what it appeared to me. It looks like the road way was different and the 35 foot maybe made more sense back when the road way was a little narrower then it is now . Siddoway: 35 feet has been the standard request of all Conditional Use Permit on arterials, entry corridors specifically since before I've come. The previous application -- was it 97 -- that was before I came on staff. Since that time 35 foot landscape setbacks being requested along entry way corridors has been a standard requirement on Conditional Use Permit's. it was required at that time the draft Landscape ordinance which is going through hearings process right now would require 35 along an arterial such as this. Nary: My next question is, is that if we were to grant this modification, is this going to be this little island that's sticking out and every other business on both sides as they get develaped along the way are going to be ~5 feet further back. This is going to look very add comparison to the res# of the business' on that side of the street. ~r is every other business going to say we want 20 feet too. Because this one is and so we want to be next to it. Siddoway: Let me say one quick thing. 1'll give it to Mr. Fishel. He is right that most of the existing businesses do not have landscaping. If Landscape ordinance goes through as currently proposed as these properties get develaped in the future they will have 35 foot landscape setbacks or they will have to get a variance. Borup: a lot of those on the south side the buildings are to close to have the 35 foot -- Siddoway: -- (inaudible) buildings on the south side are to close (inaudible) - Borup: -- north side I meant. I meant the north side. Siddoway: You meant the north side? Borup: well maybe both. Both sides~inaudibfe} -- Fishel: Most everybody on the north side -- they don't have to get a Conditional Use Permit they have done there landscaping voluntarily. It is existing business on the north side. Borup: Butthey don't have the 35 feet? Fishel: No sir. They have about ~ o feet. And the Amoco station across the street has no landscaping. The closest - I also own the farmers club property and 3rd Street is going to be comin in there and at the develo ment of that g p property. I can see and I totally agree a parking lot has ample room fora 35 foot Meridian Planning and ~~+~ g Commission Meeting October 1 p, 20x0 Page 29 setback. Cnce again I am not developing a parking lot I am develo in an pg outside showroom. The parking lot is up next to the building, 1 think it would look so weird and no one ~- it would be by the building with that fence u six foot. p You re no# going to be able to see a car in this corner right here as it stands even at 2D foot and 1 D foot because this car is going to be out in here. Also the trees cover up I'm going to have to keep them trimmed up in order to do that. We're trying to comply and to develop the property the proper manner so it would be best for the dollarvalue also. Nary: Mr. Chairman, Borup: Commissioner Nary. Nary: Mr. Fishel, if 1 look at that visual simulation the picture at the bottom, basically, if you had to comply with that 35 foot setback, that strip of rass that's g ~n front of those where those trees are located on the left hand side of the entrance inaudible}the other side ofthat row of cars approximately. Fishel: 35 feet would be at the back of this little pick-up right here. Nary: Right so basically there would be a grass strip or a landscapin stri or g p buffer that would eliminate that front row. That's your concern. Fishel: Yes Sir and also Nary: inaudible}-- Fishel: -~ the lava rack building 1 couldn't even utilize that at all. Nary: But it wouldn't eliminate your ability to put those cars there they would 'ust . 1 be another car length back - . Fishel: -~ can not park the cars on the grass. Nary: It would just push them back 15 more feet. It wouldn't make them less visible to the street. Fishel: Yes it would. Cf course it would. The Farmers' Club is blockin the g visual from the west. And that fence is blocking the vision from the east. You o g to Boise they have ~D foot landscaping all up and down Franklin Road. The -- y Combs Car Corral, the Acura store and Peterson's sometimes they park their cars on the grass and they only have 2D foot landscaping which is against the City ordinance of course. They still that on special occasions. All I'm t in to ry9 do is survive and not to give so much of my land away. I've already given 25 feet. f,., . Meridian Planning and 7~.. ~ Commission Meeting ~ October ~ 0, 2gOg Page 3g Borup: Commissioner Hatcher. Fishel; And it was a gift to the County ~- [mean they just stole because ~inaudible~. 25 feet means 60, Ooo, 10,000 dollars to me per year. 1 cut down my size you got to have parking up next to the building got to have this, got to have that so I need that. [need it bad. I'm begging you. Borup: Commissioner Hatcher. Hatcher; Mr. Chairman what I wanted to bring up for discussion pur oses. I p think we ail can appreciate the situation that Mr. Fishel is in. I think one of the things we need to take into consideration is the condition of the adjacent areas. There is practically no landscaping on the north side nor will there be under its current conditions until existing facilities get demolished and are completely rebuilt. Which isn't going to be practical because there is a railroad track short) y behind that property. The properties adjacent to this project are a mobile home lot which very well in the future be removed and redeveloped. At that time the condition for35 foot landscaping forthat project could very well be implemented. Borup: I think the mobile home lots are individually owned lots. Fishel: Yes, sir. They are. Hatcher: Are they individually owned so it's not aleased -- . ishel: No sir. Borup: That would be quite an undertaking Hatcher: I ~inaudible~ my statement that would be quite an undertaking. All the more support Mr. Fishel. The other side of his project your not going to get 20 feet let alone 35 feet of landscaping in front of a building that is only ~9, 20 feet from the street. Again to be able to adequately use that property you're goin to . g have to tear down the budding throw 35 foot landscaping. Fishel: Also that lava -~ I'm sorry. Hatcher: Basically what I'm seeing here is Troutner Business Park other developments down the road where there is a little more flexibility a little more room okay. But l tend to support the 20 foot even though I'm an advocate of green l tend to support the ~0 foot variance in this situation. Because quite frankly 20 foot of grass in front of this project is a whole lot better than nothin at 9 al[ and any of the other adjacent spaces currently out there. Centers: Mr. Chairman. ~,... Meridian Planning and r ~ Commission Meeting ~ October 10, 2000 Page 3 ~ Borup: M r. Centers. Centers: 1 would support that with a 35 foot 1 think what you would find when that becomes official in the future. I think you would find banks quite willing to do the 35 foot maybe 50 I think it depends on the business. I think in this situation I think it will end up looking very nice with the 20 feet. A different business the 35 feet might be applicable but I don't think its that applicable in this case. Hatcher: Our street ways should be afigned and lined up and not have these stepped things normally under normal conditions. But I don't think that applies here. Borup: Because were already -- might mention this Commission approved a project just down the street on the corner a reduced setback. Hatcher: Which one was that? Nary: Where the daycare is? Borup: No the one where the building is being built right now just down the -- on the Meridian and Franklin right an the corner there. Hatcher: Home Federal? Borup: No. Fishef: On the other side of - Nary: Farm Bureau Insurance I think. Borup: Is that who's going in there? and l don't remember what the reduction was but down to like ~ 5 feet 1 think i was less than ~0. Hatcher: And they had Meridian to deal with not just Franklin. Borup: Right they had two corners. They did commit to some pretty extensive landscaping. They increased their landscaping by-Commissioner Norton. Norton: 1 think we're all pretty much in agreement. This looks very nice and you can see the cars, 20 setback. Hatcher: My opinion it's a no-brainer. Borup: Do we have anyone else here who would like to testify on this application? Seeing none it looks like we can move on Commissioners. J. , rt Meridian Planning and Y ~ Commission Meeting October ~ 0, 20g0 Page 32 Hatcher: Mr. Chairman [move that we close the public hearin . g Nary: Second. Borup: Motion second to close the public hearing all in favor? M~T14N CARRIED: ALL AYES Borup: Do we have a motion? Hatcher: Any discussion? Borup: Any discussion? Hatcher: If not I'll do a motion. Borup: 1 think we're in agreement. I was at the City Council and m recollection Y was ~t went pretty much along the same lines as the Commission has mentioned. There was some discussion about the building not be usable ou know the Y existing bu~ld~ng and etcetera. Nary: Mr. Chairman I also agree with Commissioner Hatcher that we do need to look at the individual characteristics of the different propert as we o down . Y g Franklin. And we re always asked that every time we do have a standard. We always have to look at the individual characteristics of the topo rah of the lot g PY and what they're going to build there and all of that. I think 20 feet of landsca in . p g ~s better than 35 feet of dirt I think its going to look a lot better. Norton: As long as we're discussing I noticed the beautiful signs in the rendition and we are working on a Sign ordinance so I just wanted to !et you have a heads upon that one. Fishel: Thank you very much. Borup: Any other discussion? Hatcher: Seeing Wane I'll make a motion. Mr. Chairman 1 motion that we recommend approval -~ hold on a second. Little clarification it came back from City Council to us they couldn't act on it. yet we're turnip around and g recommendEng approval so they can act on it. or are we approving somethin ? I . g d~dntth~nk we had that power. Borup: We're modifying the existing Conditional Use Permit Hatcher: What are we doing? ti Meridian Planning and Z~( ~ Commission Meeting october 1 ~, 200Q Page 33 Nary: Mr. Chairman. Borup: Commissioner Nary. Nary: 1 wasn't a t the City Council meeting but what I would imagine is the City Council because this is at least a fact finding body is saying that's are responsibility to make that all information is complying with our code. And we're comfortable with making that recommendation then. I think still think the final approval is theirs, Hatcher: Still theirs. Nary: Unless something changed since last month. Borup: Anything to add to that Steve? Siddoway: This wasn't sent back inaudible}this was not the application that was before them. We had a variance before them. This is not a variance from the ordinance this is a modification to their Conditional Use Permit. It requires a separate application. Borup: I think they thought the variance was supposed to handle this -- Hatcher: Needed a -~ Borup: --the side setbackwas an ordinance where this is not an ordinance. Hatcher: Very well. Mr, Chairman I would like to recommend approval to City Council for the modification of the existing Conditional Use Permit submitted as CUP-OO-o4?' for the front landscaping setback in a C-G zone by Sam Fishel far Centennial Motors at west Meridian Road on Franklin. There were no staff comments. Norton: 1 second. Borup: Motion second, any discussion? All in favor? M~Tf~N CARRIED: ALL AYES Fishel: I have a question Mr. Chairman, Borup: That wasn't as bad as you thoughtwas it Mr. Fishel? Fishel: Sam Fishel X25 Val. Franklin Road in Meridian. May i continue my project? We're fixing to pave and landscape and do everything during the i Meridian Punning and 1 ~g Commission Meeting October ~ 0, 2x00 Page 34 November, In other words they're going to lay pavement probabl no later than . Y Friday or Monday. Borup: This goes on to City Council. Fishel: (was under the impression it would end here. That's what the Cit Y Council told me. Nary: Technically Mr. Fishel they have to make the final a royal. The can pp y change it modify it - Fishel: Do 1 have to resubmit and ga through the -- Borup: No this will automatically go to ~- probably whether ou can continue - Y how comfortable you feel that they would - Fishel: They were all ~ 00 percen# unanimous agreement. The onl thin is - Y g Borup: This is a technicality- Nary: Theoretically Mr. Fishel if you do get it built and they for whatever reason they deny it. You may have to tear it out. Fishel: okay that wilt be fine Thank you. Hatcher: Do we have some housekeeping before we adjourn? Borup: Yes we do -well was they're anybody else here - Hatcher: -- voted on that. Borup: Lets vote on that. I'm sorry five and six. Hatcher: V1le have to open five and six you're right. Nary: 1 guess we need to open it ifithe folks inaudible}- Borup: Uve still have people here in the audience and we're done with our agenda. is any body here for what item. Just viewing -same thin because g there ~s an opportunity if anybody wanted to testify on five and six that o tion is - p Nary: Mr. Chairman did the applicant far five and six leave when we discussed the continuance or were they even here? Borup: They're right here. 4. Meridian Planning and ~~~ ig Commission Mee#ing October 10, 2000 Page 35 Nary: one ofthe things before I guess we talked about movie th' g is to November 14 and I understand what Commissioner Hatcher said earlier t hat continued projects should take priority, But you also have 11 other eo le ou've no ' ' p p y t~f~ed to be prepared for November 14 you have the a licant here forth' pp is one. It sounds to me at least in looking at it this may be a fairl len th hearin Y g Y g that may take some time you do have the applicant present. To me - 1 uess w g hat I was planning to do was make a motion that we move this to the De ' cember meeting, So it gives ample opportunity for notice to the ublic sec ' p ondarily, gives the applicant time to deal with some of the issues that ma be r y p esent in the staff report they may want to deal with. And it doesn't necessaril u y p sh those 11 people into December or January that are alread re are y p p d to come in November. We ve set another over into November so we've ' got a fairly big stack as it is. To be fair to those folks and not wantin to be here ' g until 2.45 in the morning. It might make more sense since the a licant is here to mov ' . pP e this to the December meeting rather than t to set a s ecial meetin ry p gat the next one. ~r even to set this at a special meetin in November. Either g one but it dust doesn t seem fair to me to shove this off to November 14 with the assumption Items 9,1 a and 11 can come back another da . Y Borup: l agree with that 1 don't like special meetin s. But 1 am g hesitant to keep pushing everything forward also. Nary: With the volume that it is time it would make the most s ense if we set a special meeting in November and we make this obvious) the first it ' y em that s gong to get set on that. If things look like on November 14 that look to lar tim ge to e consum~ng- Borup: -- it could get moved to this one also - Nary: -- we'll have a date that is alread available and we don' Y t have anything Set an lt. Borup: Would the applicant come fonnrard so we could ask him a couple of these things. We need to open the hearing. The reason I sa from the ' y looks of things this project ~s way down the road anywa with the sewer issue. ' . Y I don t knave if having the thing in January you are oin to Bela the ro'e g g y p J ct any. There probably hasn't been any further discussion with the school district eit her, Looks to me like sewer and the school district are the two main issues. Norton: Do want to go ahead and open the hearin g Borup: We have to open it anyway to continue it. Hatcher: And lets talk to the applicant about it for 5 or 14 minutes. Borup: ar less. Let's open Items No. 5 and 6. I'm assumin na t g s aft comment