HomeMy WebLinkAbout1998 06-02
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL
AGENDA
TUESDAY, JUNE 2, 1998 - 7:30 P.M.
CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS
ROLL CALL: X RON ANDERSON X CHARLIE ROUNTREE
X GLENN BENTLEY X KEITH BIRD
X MAYOR ROBERT CORRIE
MINUTES OF PREVIOUS MEETING HELD MAY 19,1998: (APPROVED)
APPOINTMENT OF TAMMY DE WEERD TO P & Z COMMISSION
1. TABLED MAY 19,1998: REQUEST TO HOOK UP TO CITY WATER BY HOLY
APOSTLES CATHOLIC CHURCH - SOUTHEAST CORNER OF MERIDIAN
ROAD AND CHINDEN BLVD: (TABLED UNTIL JULY 7,1998)
2. TABLED MAY 19,1998: REQUEST TO HOOK UP TO CITY SEWER AND
WATER BY LOS CHURCH - LOCUST GROVE AND USTICK: (APPROVED)
3. TABLED MAY 19,1998: DISCUSSION BY ELAINE ESTACIO REGARDING R-4
ZONING ORDINANCE AND IN HOME DAYCARE:
4. ORDINANCE #792 - CHANGES TO TITLE 8, CHAPTER 9, OFFENSIVE
MATTER: (TABLED UNTIL JULY 7, 1998)
5. RESOLUTION #168 - DEPUTIZING AND AUTHORIZING RESOLUTION:
(APPROVED)
6. ORDINANCE #793 - AMENDMENTS TO ZONING AND SUBDIVISION AND
DEVELOPMENT ORDINANCES: (BACK TO PLANNING AND ZONING)
7. ORDINANCE #794 - VENDORS, PEDDLERS AND SOLICITORS: (TABLE
UNTIL JULY 7, 1998)
8. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR ANNEXATION AND ZONING OF 1.8
ACRES OF TO C-G BY TOM BEVAN - 3020 W. FAIRVIEW AVENUE:
(CONTINUE PUBLIC HEARING JUNE 16,1998)
9a PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A
RETAIL SHOPPING CENTER (CHELSEA SQUARE BY TOM BEVAN - 2030 W.
FAIRVIEW: (CONTINUE PUBLIC HEARING JUNE 16,1998)
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10. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR CONDITIONAL USE' PERMIT FOR A
HOME DAYCARE: WENDELL & KATHLEEN LAWRENCE - 889 N. FILLMORE
WAY: (CITY ATTORNEY TO REVISE FINDINGS OF FACT AND
CONCLUSIONS OF LAW)
11. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A
GROUP DAY CARE (6 TO 12 CHILDREN) BY TONYA WEBSTER - 3642 E.
EISENHOWER: (APPROVE FINDINGS - APPROVE DECISION)
12. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A
SECOND BUILDING FOR A FUEL ISLAND BY ALBERTSON'S, INC. -
SOUTHWEST CORNER OF W. CHERRY LANE & TEN MILE ROAD: (CITY
ATTORNEY TO PREPARE FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF
LAW)
13. REQUEST TO REIMBURSE THE "DOUBLED" PORTION OF THE SEWER AND
WATER ASSESSMENT FEES BY MERIDIAN PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH -
SOUTHWEST CORNER OF USTICK AND MERIDIAN ROADS: (APPROVE
REFUND UPON COMPLETION OF ANNEXATION)
14. REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION BY RUDY GONZALES REGARDING STREET
DANCES:
@
17.
DISCUSSION OF POSSIBLE ORDINANCE CHANGE WITH CROSS
CONNECTION AND BACKFLOW DEVICES: (BRUCE STUART TO DISCUSS)
WATERlSEWERlTRASH DELINQUENCIES: (APPROVED)
APPROVE BILLS: (APPROVE)
DEPARTMENT REPORTS:
16.
18.
A. WILL BERG:
1. FRIENDSHIP CELEBRATION AGREEMENT. (CITY
ATTORNEY TO REDRAFT AGREEMENT)
2. BEER & WINE LICENSE FOR KBC DEVELOPMENT (ULTRA
TOUCH CAR WASH) (TABLED UNTIL JULY 7,1998)
B. GARY SMITH:
1. BID AWARD FOR PARKING LOT IMPROVEMENTS @ PINE
STREET AND NW 8TH. (ACCEPT CAPITOL PAVING BID)
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@SEWER SERVICE TO COUNTY AREAS NE AREA OF IMPACT.
(SET UP SPECIAL WORKSHOP)
3. BUILDING PERMIT ISSUANCE FOR HOME DEPOT.
@PROPOSED CHANGES TO SEWER USE ORDINANCE.
C. SHARI STILES:
1. VIENNA WOODS SUBDIVISION.
2. TROUTNER BUSINESS PARK CONDITION USE
REQUIREMENT.
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MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL MEETING
JUNE 2, 1998
The regular meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order by Mayor Robert
D. Corrie at 7:30 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Ron Anderson, Charlie Rountree, Glenn Bentley, Keith Bird,
Mayor Corrie.
OTHERS PRESENT: Wayne Crookston, Gary Smith, Shari Stiles, Bill Gordon, Kenny
Bowers, Will Berg.
Corrie: Before I start this evening, I would like to welcome Boyscouts from troop 129
here this evening, and thank you for coming tonight. The first item on the agenda is a
tabled item, but I'm sorry, let's have the minutes of the previous meeting held May the
19th, 1998. Council, you have those before you. How do you wish to -
Bird: Mr. Mayor, I move that we accept the minutes of May 19, 1998.
Rountree: Second.
Corrie: Okay, motion made by Mr. Bird and second by Mr. Rountree that we accept the
minutes as written. All those in favor, say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: AU ayes.
Corrie: At this time council, I would like to have a second to give you my appointment
for the vacancy on the Planning and Zoning Commission. As you know Jim Johnson
has retired and that leaves a vacancy on the Planning and Zoning, and at this time I
would like to enter the name of Tammy de Weerd to fill that spot and recommend that
you accept the appointment.
Bentley: I move we approve the appointment of Tammy de Weerd.
Bird: Second.
. Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bentley and second by Mr. Bird that we accept the
appointment of Tammy de Weerd as the replacement on the Planning and Zoning
Board. Are there any discussion?
Rountree: Mr. Mayor, I believe that nomination of appointment is an excellent choice,
and I know full well that Tammy will do a good job for the city. I hope that it is favorable,
and I am please to work with her in the future.
Corrie: Any further discussion? Hearing none, then all in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: All ayes.
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Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 2
Corrie: Tammy, congratulations. Your first night will be the 9th of June, and welcome
aboard and it will be a lot of work, but I'm sure you can do it. Thank you.
ITEM NO.1: REQUEST TO HOOK UP TO UNITED WATER BY HOLY APOSTLES
CATHOLIC CHURCH - SOUTHEAST CORNER OF MERIDIAN ROAD AND CHINDEN
BLVD:
Corrie: Will the representative of the Holy Apostles Catholic Church like to come up at
this time?
Larrea: I was in contact with United Water again, and they said that you had a meeting
with them last week and thought it was favorable, and we would still like to hook up with
United Water. So, what do you guys think?
Corrie: Direct and to the point.
Larrea: It would be more feasible to hook up to them. They are a lot closer then
Meridian City is going to be and it would be more cost effective at this time.
Corrie: Council, questions?
Rountree: I have none.
Corrie: All right.
Rountree: I have a question for Gary or an opportunity for Gary if he has any further
input into this particular request.
Smith: No, I don't, Councilman Rountree.
Rountree: Thank you.
Bentley: I have a question for Gary. I would like to know what your feelings are or if
you've heard of this situation in other places. Once you let an entity like United Water
in, how is the City going to readily get that area back or is it going to be lost?
Smith: Mayor and Council, Councilman Bentley, I don't know for sure how that could
happen as far as retrieving the area to our service area. I would suspect it would be
difficult to do. Number one the PUC, Public Utilities Commission, has to amend the
boundaries the United Water Company so that they can include that area as their
certificated service area, and with the extension of the facilities that they would make
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Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 3
into that area. I don't know that it would be reversible, but I can't say for certain
because I've never dealt with a similar situation.
Bentley: Thank you.
Anderson: I did have one question of Jan. If my memory serves me correctly, you had
stated that there wasn't a real big hurry on this that you were talking about this within
about the next year; is that correct?
Larrea: (Inaudible, off the mike) -- I've talked to the PUC, and I've talked to United
Water both, and there are ways other than - Meridian would not necessarily be giving
up the rights to that land. United Water's worked out a contract agreement with the City
of Eagle on a portion of theirs, and there's also the chance if Meridian didn't want to
bring the thing in there's franchise fees that get charged. So, you know, it's not like
Meridian is just out. But it frees us up so we know what our budget and things are going
to be, and I don't think it leaves the City of Meridian out if they ever came out that far or
not, and you can still get revenue from the franchise fees or the contract, and "I thought
that's what you guys were going to be looking into last week from everything that I've
talked - after I talked to Kathy and the PUC. So that's what I know.
Anderson: The meeting consisted of kind of exploratory talks about all the possibilities
and no decision was actually made on what we were going to do service in that area.
Larrea: But we need to know.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor, I have a question for counsel. What is it in fact we are approving
or denying, the ability of PUC to extend United Water's boundary into the City of
Meridian's impact area, not necessarily the hook up?
Crookston: Well, as I understand this, we are granting them the right to connect to
United Water. We are not necessarily making a decision as to whether or not it's going
to going to impact our service area. It could. It may not, but I don't think that we're
making a statement as to that. We're making a statement as to whether or not they can
connect ~o United Water. I think that's all we're doing. If that's what the Council's
decision is.
Bentley: But in that discussion United Water stated that they would have to go before
PUC to get their area expanded in to take in this property. So then it becomes their
service area and not ours.
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Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 4
Crookston: If United Water has to do that with the Public Utility Commission, then there
would be an extension probably by the PUC to have that area become United Water's
area.
Rountree: My understanding is that PUC does not govern an entity, and as such as
long as that's in our impact area, whether they are providing service there or not, at
such time as we get to that location are more competitive than United Water. It seems
to me that it's going to be a customer's choice if their area would be in the impact area
of the City of Meridian. I don't see that it precludes us from providing service in that
area in the future.
Crookston: I don't know how the PUC Commission handles that.
Bentley: I don't see a problem with approving their use of United Water on an interim
basis. But I'd like to have some research done to be reasonably sure that we aren't in
deed giving up our area.
Rountree: Is that a motion?
Bentley: We can make it that way. Mr. Mayor I would move that we table this until we
can get some research done so we can find out the legalities of whose jurisdiction that
would fall under for service area and hopefully we can have this done within a month.
Bird: I'll second that.
Corrie: Okay, time certain then do you want it then the first meeting in July?
Bentley: Yes, please.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bentley, second by Mr. Bird to table this until the first
meeting in July, which would be July 7th. Discussion?
Rountree: Mr. Mayor and Council, my preference would be to indicate by motion to the
applicant that we're in agreement with their pursuing hook up with United Water, and at
the same time, we work out the details with United Water, PUC, also investigate
franchise fee options for the City, but I believe we indicated to the folks last time that we
would give them a decision tonight. I don't know what the further investigation will tell
us other than clarify some issues.
Bentley: Is that an amendment?
Rountree: No, that's just some discussion.
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Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 5
Corrie: If I'm not mistaken, that water is on the north side of Chinden Boulevard; is that
correct? So they would have to go underneath the highway to do that.
Bird: Mr. Mayor, as I understood when we talked to United Water last Tuesday, when
they come in to PUC, which they have to come in to PUC, they get a block and even
though it's in our impact, it's not an entity. It would have to be within our city limits as I
understood it before we would be able to stop it. I think you are going to get when they
go to PUC, if from what I understood is right, they are going to get more than just where
this church is going. They are going to get a block out there, and we are not going to
stop them because it is in our impact area, but it isn't an entity. Gary, is that your
understanding too?
Smith: Mayor and Council, Councilman Bird, that's what I understood that if they had a
small area that was requesting service, they wouldn't just ask the PUC for that small
area. They would attach that small area to more landmass and connect it to their
existing boundaries and to follow your word, they would go after a block of property. I
think they made an example along the north side of Chinden when they were talking
about those several isolated areas that are requesting water service.
Bird: I understood that they were going to go up to Foxtail on the north side and then up
to Spurwing on the north side and then also back east from this across over to that
other area that we've requested by. I still stand by Glenn's motion. I'd like to get more
clarification on what this is going to affect.
Corrie: Any further discussion? Okay, the motion before the council is to table until the
first meeting in July, which is July 7th, to obtain more information and work on the
franchise fees as well. All those in favor of the motion, say aye?
MOTION CARRIED: 3 ayes, 1 nay.
ITEM NO.2: REQUEST TO HOOK UP TO CITY SEWER AND WATER BY LOS
CHURCH - LOCUST GROVE AND USTICK:
Corrie: Is a member of the LDS church here tonight?
Rellerford: This property in question is adjacent to the Summeriield Subdivision on the
west side of Locust Grove and the mainline utilities are in the impact area and serviced
by the City of Meridian at this time.
Corrie: Questions from Council?
Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 6
Rountree: Does the applicant understand the double fee cost for this hookup if in fact
it's approved?
Rellerford: Yes, sir.
Rountree: Okay.
Corrie: Any other questions? Staff any comments? All right thank you. Council, your
pleasure?
Rountree: Mr. Mayor, I would move that we approve the request to hook up to city
sewer and water by the LOS church at Locust Grove and Ustick with the understanding
of normal double hookup fees will be charged for this action.
Anderson: Second that.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Rountree and second by Mr. Anderson of the motion that
has been stated. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all in favor of the motion say
aye? Opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: All ayes.
ITEM NO.3: DISCUSSION BY ELAINE ESTACIO REGARDING R-4 ZONING
ORDINANCE AND IN HOME DA YCARE:
Estacio: Mr. Mayor, City Councilmen, ladies and gentlemen, I apologize for all the
children here tonight. They are the reason why I'm speaking here tonight. I would like
to begin by quoting from the Idaho Statesman's May 6th issue. Two of three children in
Idaho need watching while mom and dad are at work. Two of three. Slightly above the
national average and enough to make daycare a top priority in the state. Meridian
currently is in desperate need of more daycare. ~nd that is why I'm here to ask you to
please change the restrictions on the current city ordinance which prohibits in home
daycares for 6 to 12 children in R-4 residential zone. The largest part of residential area
in Meridian City limits is zoned as R-4. Anyone caring for children in that area is limited
to care for five and fewer children and they have to count their own children in that five.
Most families don't even consider doing daycare in their own home have chosen this
profession because they are parents too. When you have to count your own children
that would only allow room to care for two or three children. Daycare providers have a
lot of expenses from food to crayons. When they are limited to such a small amount of
children to care for, it just makes it impossible to do it for very long, which is why
Meridian has such a high amount of in home daycares not even trying to be licensed
because the Meridian City ordinances and fees are so restrictive. It is my
Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 7
understanding the reason we have different residential zones is because of the amount
of houses allowed per acre, not to limit them from children. You can drive through any
of our residential areas in Meridian, and you cannot tell by looking at them which one is
an R-4 or an R-8, but yet they are treated differently when applying to become a
licensed in home daycare. In home daycares are not large businesses. The corner
grocery store, the local bar, they are just families taking care of families. Meridian is
growing leaps and bounds, and now is the time we should re-Iook at our ordinances to
not discourage families to care for our children but on how we can work together and
ensure the safety and well being of our youth within our streets and subdivisions. You
can ask any parent if they could take their children within their own neighborhood for
daycare, they would. But instead they are desperate for search of any daycare, and
because of the lack of it, they are forced to spend 30 to 45 minutes each day getting
their children to daycare. And a lot of parents have to take their children to two different
daycares because there's not enough room. Yes, we do have nine larger daycare
centers here in Meridian, but most families would prefer to take their children to the
warmth and care of an in home daycare. I'm not here to speak against larger daycare
centers, because we do have some very good ones right here in Meridian. But unlike in
home daycares, you never know who will be caring for your child. The majority of the
staff are paid near minimum wage, which makes for a very high staff turnover, and their
child care tuition is so high, the average parent cannot afford them. There is no
substitute for a good home environment for an infant or preschool child to be in. I have
tried to find the statistics on how many preschool children we have in Meridian. The
best figure I can come up with is according to the Meridian School District, they are
preparing for at least 1700 kindergartners next year. You take that figure and add for
the one to four year olds, I come up with a figure of at least 8500 children, not counting
the school age children during the summer and before and after school. But according
to the list given to me by the Child Care Licensing Department as of the end of April,
'98, Meridian has only 24 licensed in home daycares within the city limits which have a
maximum of 190 spaces for care in them, which also includes the providers' children.
190 spaces from 8500 children. Where do all our infants and preschoolers go?
Planning and Zoning is afraid we'll impact the area of traffic, but we as parents already
live within these areas, so in reality we would be decreasing the traffic if we didn't have
to take our children so far away from our neighbors to find daycare. All we ask is to be
treated like any other residential area. To be considered for an application for a
conditional use permit for a group daycare to allow for 6 to 12 children. If you don't
have to seek daycare for your own children, you don't know the frustrations we as
parents face, but it is a real problem, and I hope you will consider to help us to continue
to make in home daycares more accessible for us and work with those providers to
comply with good and acceptable city ordinances which work for all of Meridian as a
whole. Daycare providers are professionals, and they are very valuable to this
community. Please help to make it a profession that is compensated for its efforts, not
limited to make it cost prohibitive to continue. Times are changing and populations are
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Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 8
growing. It's time we look towards the future and make room for our children. Please
consider lifting the restrictions we have in R-4 zones to allow for group daycare for 6 to
12 children. I'm here tonight to ask for a public hearing to hear all sides of this issue.
I'd also like to add a couple of other things. In my research, of course, I am temporary
licensed daycare provider, and I am trying to get licensed for five or fewer children at
this time. When you go to apply for a daycare licensing, the first step you do is you call
the Health and Welfare Department which licenses you. They will send you out a
packet to be licensed. This is your first step normally. They send you out a packet.
The first page it says, and I quote, are you caring for 7 or more children, if the answer is
no, you can voluntarily complete the license process. The law does not require you to
have a license. You go in further and it says Meridian City of course has their own
ordinances and ev~rything, but what I'm trying is a lot of people just stop right here at
this page, and go well, I only caring for 7 seven children. Why should I continue with
the process? Meridian City has an ordinance that says we have to have five and fewer
children.. I'd also like to add Boise City, I know we're not Boise City, but they are
remarkable on the way they have handled their daycare licensing. I would like to add
and submit a copy that I have taken off the internet because they make it so accessible
for us and what the requirements in licensing are. It's something I just hope you can at
least take a look at. They make it a little bit easier to work with the providers looking
more towards the safety and everything for their children. Not the zone that they are in.
In fact they don't discriminate on zonings on residential. Residential is just residential
over there is my understanding. I would alga like to add a very nicely worded letter from
a concerned resident in Meridian and a parent. And finally I wo.uld also like to add a
petition that we have put together here. It's got over a hundred signatures on here of
those that would like to see a public hearing if that's possible.
Corrie: Questions from Council?
Bentley: I have none at this time.
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: I have a couple for our counselor. Mrs. Estacio indicated that you have to
count your own children in those figures, but it is my understanding that's not correct.
Crookston: I do not believe that that's correct.
Estacio: That is correct. I have documents that do that. Not only do we have to have -
Rountree: That's not correct.
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Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 9
Estacio: Okay, I apologize then. That would be wonderful, but according to when I
applied for my accessory use permit, and was given this back to me, on line 13 it says
family child care homes are defined as child care facilities which provide for five or
fewer children throughout the day. This includes the providers own children. This was
what was given to me from Planning and Zoning at my last Planning and Zoning
meeting. I also am not allowed to have any employees and I have to pay for a
commercial rate water, sewer and garbage as a five and fewer daycare provider.
Rountree: It's the same, is it not Gary? Shari, on the definitions. That evidently came
out of your office; is that how it is in the ordinance?
Stiles: Yes.
Rountree: And Gary on the commercial fees for sewer and water, it's the same whether
you are a resident or commercial?
Smith: Right, we don't have a commercial fee designation.
Estacio: Well, alii know is that it's in that paper that was what I was told. I haven't
been finalized yet from Planning and Zoning, so I have not called them on that. It is in
there though stating that, and the fact that I cannot have an employee of any kind for
five and fewer children. That means even if I am sick, if I want to leave, I'm not allowed
to do that as a home daycare. It just makes it extremely hard to afford to do it. Nobody
is saying that everybody has to have up to 12 children every day, but the problem is that
most families are two parent working families. And so a lot of children are three and
four days a week. So there's days we have more than others. It makes it so it's more
flexible for providers to afford to stay open. We need more daycare, and we have a lot
of daycares that aren't even licensed because of these reasons, and I'd like to see more
licensing. I want to help Meridian to get a little different status or we can get higher and
better licensed daycare centers in Meridian.
Corrie: Just for the record so that anybody here knows that you and I have talked about
this and what we are talking about here, I think the Council is aware of it, but we will
have to do one of two things. We have to either rezone the area to accommodate the
way the ordinance reads now, or we would have to redo the ordinance. Those two
things would have to be done. If we rezone, then that would take a public hearing as
well, and as well as a public hearing on the ordinance change, so you are aware of that.
Estacio: Right. I'm asking for an ordinance change. It's not a huge request. It's just
one saying that we are put on just like an R-4 on this list and permitted to have a
conditional use permit.
Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 10
(Inaudible)
Estacio: When we're talking R-4's we not talking about bi~ expensive subdivisions
totally. We're talking about streets such as Pine Street, at Street, Meridian Road, part
is R-4. There's a lot of Meridian that is R-4, and all we are just saying is that if we were
allowed to have a little higher capacity to bring our standards up a little bit more and
hopefully have more licensed daycares then we do now. There's a lot of expenses, and
you have to have a certain amount to continue. We're not talking five and fewer. That's
a mother staying home and watching a couple of kids. You know, most of us daycare
providers, we teach the children. I have computers of my own. I have a preschool
program every morning. You know, they are very valuable to our community, but when
we restrict them to have five or fewer children, and my understanding counting our own
children within that five, I have foster parents. I have to send two of my foster children
because they are under the age of 14 to a daycare center here in Meridian, because I
can't afford to count them in my daycare. You know, if I could go up to 12, I wouldn't
have to be doing this. They are nine and twelve years old, but it's my understanding
that 14 and under counts in my ration according to the Meridian City Ordinance, but if I
was allowed to go like an R-8, six to twelve children, that would help. There's a lot of
us. School time, there's a lot of parents that the kids are in school so we're their smaller
children. We need to make room in the summertime for their brothers and sisters,
because there is more need for daycare in the summertime. It helps us that are only
allowed to have five or fewer to build flexibility and to continue to stay open. During my
research I've talked to a lot of daycare providers. A lot of them say I can't do any more.
I'm going to have to quit or a lot of them say well, you know, I've been doing it for so
long with that many but no one stopped me so I'm going to continue. I don't want to see
that. I would like to see where we can be licensed, not embarrassed of what we're
doing and be able to do it with the ratio that we can afford to stay open.
Corrie: Council, have any more questions? Okay, thank you. I would like to tell the
parents, I don't know if there's some here that have children, Tammy de Weerd said
that on June the 15th at the Parks and Recreation meeting they win have a playground
equipment presentation for the parks if you would like to put your input on playground
equipment in the parks, that will be a 7:30 on June the 15th, so you're welcome to come
as well. Thank you. I might add that there is another group that would like to discuss
home care too with the council, so they will be meeting another group as well and
discuss that. So we wil1 make a further discussion since this is not an open meeting, we
will discuss it among ourselves and the other group -
Estacio: (Inaudible - off the microphone)
Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 11
Corrie: Not yet, but the council will have to make that decision whether we have a
public hearing later on it, but the other just wants to talk to the council as well. But then
we'll (inaudible) we'll make a notice of that.
Rountree: Do you have a time on that?
Corrie: They would like to see us the meeting of the 30th for about ten minutes.
ITEM NO_ 4: ORDINANCE #792 - CHANGES TO TITLE 8, CHAPTER 9, OFFENSIVE
MA TTER:
Corrie: Mr. Crookston, can you explain this? I mean I - it came across my desk and I
don't know.
Rountree: I have the same question. Where did it come from? What's it mean?
Crookston: Mr. Mayor and Council, where it came from was it was a request by Bill
Schwartz who heads the prosecution for the City of Meridian. He wanted the
potentially, the word potentially added in front of the ordinance because he felt that it
would be easier to gain convictions rather than when it just says injurious.
Rountree: Now are we talking about the offensive matter ordinance, 792? Potentially
injurious.
Crookston: The way that it reads now just take out the potentially and that's how it read.
What this ordinance does is add the word potentially to the ordinance.
Rountree: Without a great amount of detail, how do you define offensive? I mean who
is the judge and jury on that? I'm not familiar with this ordinance. Is this the one we just
passed?
Crookston: No. This ordinance has been on our ordinance book for years.
Bentley: Came along with the hanging ordinance, did it?
Crookston: It probably did.
Corrie: So, if I understand, Counselor, correctly you are adding one word to this
ordinance. That's the word potentially.
Crookston: That's correct.
Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 12
Corrie: I have the same question, what is offensive to the senses? I mean you may get
challenged in court on this one anyway. What's offensive to you may not be offensive
to me as far as senses, but -
Crookston: That's very true.
Corrie: Council, any other questions?
Rountree: Chief, how many times have you issued a ticket on this ordinance? If ever.
Gordon: To my knowledge, none. I wasn't aware of this change either.
Rountree: I guess from my point of view, it's not that big a deal, but we probably ought
to look at whether or not we even need the ordinancea
Corrie: You can certainly table it and take a look at it if you would like.
Rountree: That would be my preference.
Corrie: Okay, I'll entertain a motion to that effect if you so desire.
Bird: Mr. Mayor, I make a motion we table this until the 16th meeting.
Rountree: I'll second that.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bird, second by Mra Rountree. Discussion?
Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I would think it would be better to table until the 30th and look at it
at the planning meeting.
Crookston: I don't think you can table it to a planning session. You need to table it to a
definite city council meeting where it can act.
Bentley: Let's go July.
Corrie: July 7th.
Bird: Okay, I change that. I'll change my motion to July 7th.
Rountree: Second.
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Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 13
Corrie: Motion to table to the July 7th. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those
in favor of the motion, say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: All ayes.
ITEM NO.5: RESOLUTION #168 - DEPUTIZING AND AUTHORIZING RESOLUTION:
Corrie: Counsel, this is another one that came in from you, the legal department, is that
correct, Wayne?
Crookston: Mr. Mayor and Council, that is correct. What this does is it deputizes
Garden City Prosecutors and Boise City Prosecutors so that if a police officer makes an
arrest from a resident of either Boise or Garden City, and it's under City of Meridian
ordinance, if it's deemed appropriate that the prosecutor from either Garden City or
Boise will be allowed to prosecute the case. Even thought the jurisdiction is in the City
of Meridian.
Bentley: Chief, is this part of the link with the mutual aid agreement between the two
cities?
Gordon: Mr. Mayor and Councilman Bentley, yes, it is. This is the requirement for the
mutual aid agreements between those three cities, which will be coming up shortly.
Bentley: Okay, and you need to have this in place to make the mutual aid go?
Gordon: Yes, sir, we do.
Bentley: Thank you.
Corrie: Any other questions or comments from the council?
Rountree: I have none.
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor, I move that we approve Resolution #168 deputizing and
authorizing res'olution, authorize the mayor to sign and the clerk to attest.
Bentley: Second.
Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 14
Corrie: Motion is made and seconded that we approve Resolution #168 deputizing and
authorizing resolution. Any further comment? All those in favor of the resolution #168
say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: All ayes. ROLL CALL VOTE: Anderson, yea. Bentley, yea.
Rountree, yea. Bird, yea.
ITEM NO.6: ORDINANCE #793 - AMENDMENTS TO ZONING AND SUBDIVISION
AND DEVELOPMENT ORDINANCES:
Corrie: I think Council you have amendment ordinance memo from John Prior,
Assistant City Attorney, stating that according to the state law that there have to be
some findings made in this amendment to zoning and subdivision development
ordinance. I would like to request that this be, that his memo be honored and be sent
back to planning and zoning for findings of fact and conclusions of law on this one. Any
comments from Council?
Bentley: I have none.
Rountree: I don't have any problem with the request. I don't know that it requires their
action, just an indication of why findings of fact and conclusions of law were not
prepared.
Bird: We wouldn't have to have a motion on that, would we Mayor?
Corrie: No, I don't think so. It's just a matter we would send it back and they would
come to us.
Rountree: Well, I guess for the record I would move that we concur with the memo from
Assistant City Attorney, John Prior, related to the preparation of Findings of Fact and
Conclusions of Law for the amendments to the zoning and subdivision development
ordinance.
Anderson: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Rountree and second by Mr. Anderson that we remand
back to Planning and Zoning for Findings of Fact and Conclusions on the amendments
to the zoning and subdivision development ordinance. Any further discussion? All
those in favor, say aye?
MOTION CARRIED: All ayes.
Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 15
ITEM NO.7: ORDINANCE #794 - VENDORS, PEDDLERS AND SOLICITORS:
Corrie: Before I read the ordinance up front, I would like the council to probably think
about this. Going through this one, the definition of a peddler or vendor might preclude
some businesses from doing business after sunset, a half hour after the sun goes down.
I don't think that you, maybe I'm wrong, but have you had this on your calendar very
long, or have you seen this?
Rountree: I haven't seen it.
Bird: We haven't seen it.
Corrie: I'll let you decide what you want to do with it then. If you would like to table it
until a later date.
Rountree: I guess I would like bit of history right now from Wayne, Shari and whoever it
came from.
Bentley: Where did it come from?
Rountree: Who claims this?
Gordon: Mr. Mayor, Council, I enforce the vendors, peddlers and solicitors and to my
knowledge we just approved an ordinance within the last six months, and I wasn't aware
of any changes. It's the first I've seen of this. I didn't do it.
Bird: Where'd this come from? Who brought this forward?
Crookston: Yes, I do. This again is something that Mr. Schwartz is the better thing to
do to handle vendors. We don't have anything that specifically deals with vendors in the
City of Meridian. We already have a peddlers and solicitors ordinance. This just adds
vendors to that ordinance.
Bentley: So, it's a one word change?
Crookston: No, it's not.
Bentley: Or the whole paragraph?
Rountree: Well, with that background Mr. Mayor, I would move that we table action on
ordinance #794 until such time as we have an opportunity to compare this to the
existing ordinance.
Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 16
Anderson: Second.
Crookston: I think you need a date.
Rountree: July 7th.
Anderson: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Rountree and second by Mr. Anderson to table this
ordinance July the 7th meeting. Further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of
the motion, say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: All ayes.
ITEM NO.8: PUBLIC HEARING REQUEST FOR ANNEXATION AND ZONING OF 1.8
ACRES TO C-G BY TOM BEVAN - 3020 W. FAIRVIEW AVENUE:
Corrie: I'll open the public hearing at this time on the annexation and zoning request.
TOM BEVAN WAS SWORN BY THE CITY ATTORNEY.
Bevan: My name is Tom Bevan. My address is 4202 N. Marcliffe in Boise, and we're
developing a piece, trying to develop a piece of property across the street from Chevron
down on Fairview. It's just south of Fairview across from Chevron. Now there's a two
story home there on the site. Next door to us is Econo Lube and Schuck's Auto, but
they putting in a (inaudible) right next door to us, and we're working with them on a
cross development agreement, a cross easement agreement for a share of the parking
lot there. Planning and Zoning has approved the - not approve, but they've
recommended the approval I think for the zone change, annexation and the conditional
use permit. Any questions?
Corrie: Yes, sir, Mr. Rountree. (End of Tape)
Rountree: ... opportunity to fully review and appreciate the comments and the Findings
of Fact and Conclusions and are you in general agreement with those?
Bevan: Actually, I haven't looked at all of them yet. I didn't get a copy of them. You
haven't received a copy of them?
Corrie: Did you request a copy of it?
Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 17
Bevan: I think my architect did. He did pick them up? Oh, I'm sorry, then it's my error.
No, I haven't seen them. I thought he would have got in touch with me. So I guess this
is our error that I didn't get it.
Corrie: Any other questions?
Rountree: None.
Bird: I have none.
Bevan: Thank you. I guess I should have time to look it before.
Rountree: You might want to.
Bevan: Yes. So I would like to table it for one more month or one more meeting.
Corrie: We can continue the public hearing.
Bevan: Very good, thank you.
Corrie: Is there anyone else from the public that would like to issue testimony at this
time with the understanding that we will probably continue the public hearing on June
16th? Okay, hearing none, I'll keep the public hearing open and the Council can make a
decision.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor, I move that we continue the hearing on this application until June
16th at such time as the applicant has an opportunity to review the Findings of Fact and
Conclusions of Law.
Anderson: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Rountree and second by Mr. Anderson to continue the
public hearing until June the 16th in order to the applicant to read the annexation and
zoning Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law. Any discussion? All those in favor of
the motion, say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: All ayes.
ITEM NO.9: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A
RETAIL SHOPPING CENTER (CHELSEA SQUARE) BY TOM BEVAN - 3020 W.
FAIRVIEW:
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Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 18
Corrie: At this time I will open the public hearing and invite you back up and this one is
about as thick as that one is. I don't know whether you have seen this or not.
Bevan: I haven't seen that one either.
TOM BEVAN WAS SWORN BY THE CITY ATTORNEY.
Bevan: I guess I better take a look at that too.
Rountree: Good decision.
Bevan: Okay, thank you.
Corrie: Is there anyone else from the public who would like to issue testimony on this
one? Or you can wait until June the 16th if you'd like. Okay, hearing none, Council?
Bentley: I would move to continue the public hearing for conditional use permit by Tom
Bevan until the 16th of June.
Rountree: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bentley, second by Mr. Rountree to table June the 16th
meeting. Any discussion? Hearing none all those in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: All ayes.
ITEM NO. 10: REQUEST FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A HOME DAYCARE
BY WENDELL & KATHLEEN LAWRENCE - 889 N. FILLMORE WAY:
Corrie: I'll open the public hearing at this time and invite Mrs. Lawrence.
KATHLEEN LAWRENCE WAS SWORN BY THE CITY ATTORNEY.
Lawrence: It says down here home daycare, but we are requesting a permit for 13 plus
children. I had called Daunt Whitman since January when I first turned in our
application for a conditional use permit, and I'm sorry I didn't have this for planning and
zoning. I think it would have helped our case, and did you guys receive this letter from
Daunt Whitman on the occupancy load? I'm sorry I turned it in last week. I'll give you
the one that I have to look at. He has determined our maximum occupant load for 19,
and that includes my husband, myself, so that the greatest number of children that we
could have would be 17, and we are licensed for 12 now, so we are asking for five
more. There was some question about the lock at the planning and zoning meeting.
Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 19
The lock has been installed. In my application I have given the names of ten children
from our subdivision that we currently care for. We have six children from our
subdivision that are currently on our waiting list. So if we were granted this conditional
use permit, all the traffic would be coming from our subdivision. I have another paper to
give you. Our neighbors have consistently said that they do not hear the children we
presently care fOf. Furthermore, our new schedule will allow for only half the children to
be outside at a time. And this will also allow because we are asking fOf the greater
number of children that will have to be myself and my husband there at all times.
Currently licensed for 12, only one of us has to be there. I realize that the Family
Center has not applied for zoning as far as I could learn from calling Planning and
Zoning, but there is plans for a shopping mall to be centered directly behind our home
and extend 300 feet in either direction. This shopping mall will have 5,000 parking
spots that will produce more noise than five more children ever could. No increase in
traffic will occur since the waiting list from our subdivision would fill our limit. I also
wanted to say for example, my list included Hunter and Taylor Edwards. They were
currently in our care when we turned in our application. They have currently moved to
Summerfield. We no longer care for them and we have now started caring for Jessica
and Joy Sulez that are from our subdivision, and since we have become established,
we really haven't found the need to look outside of our subdivision for more children.
We had no parents or neighbors complain at our last public and we did have numerous
neighbors, if you read their addresses, they all live in that subdivision except for one
that did come to support us. Do you have any questions?
Bentley: You have read the Findings of Fact and Conclusions by P & Z?
Lawrence: Yes, I have.
Corrie: Do you have any questions. on what it says?
Lawrence: No. I did want to add if I can remember, it keeps crossing my mind and then
I'll lose it. There are two other daycares in Meridian that are licensed for more than 13
children that are zoned residential. One is off of Linder and I do know it is near an
elementary grade school and the other one is off of Third Street and it is also near a
park. But we are backed right up to what I assume is going to be commercial zoning, so
I would you to also consider this in your decision. Thank you.
Corrie: Is there anyone else from the public who would like to issue testimony in this
case?
DAVE BARNES 901 FILLMORE WAS SWORN BY THE CITY ATTORNEY.
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Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 20
Barnes: I live just to the south of the Lawrences, excuse me just to the north right next
door, and I'm just here to testify to you that there's not - we've not noticed any traffic
problems not even in front of our home. They've taken measures to make sure that has
been taken care of by moving their vehicles inside all the time. We never have
problems with the kids making noises. We've never really even noticed any problems,
and I would probably be the first one here to complain here if there was, but I see no
problem with an increase in the way that they maintain their property and the way that
they have run the daycare as to this point. So I really see no problem in the increase.
Rountree: Do you have children that are currently cared for in this facility?
Barnes: No, I have four children. My wife is a stay home mother.
Rountree: Thank you.
Corrie: Any further questions? Thank you. Anybody else from the public would like to
issue testimony? Okay, you have the last shot if you have anything to say.
Lawrence: What I'm adding a little bit has to do with what Mrs. Estacio was bringing up.
We've been licensed for two years in our subdivision, and there are four daycares that I
know of that are in that subdivision that are not licensed. They are not in compliance,
and they currently care for children that are in that subdivision. So I realize the need is
great. My husband and I do encourage them to get licensed. Thank you.
Corrie: Council? Discussion?
Bentley: I have a question for Chief Bowers since he happens to be here. Have you
reviewed this Ken?
Bowers: Councilman Bentley, I'm not sure. I don't remember it at this time if we have.
I know we've been out and went through the house, and everything checked out okay,
but I haven't gone through it for tonight's deal.
Corrie: I have a question, Kathleen. You said you only wanted five more children? The
conditional use permit is for 13-24, but you are only asking for five additional?
Lawrence: My additional calculations calculated that we could possibly hold 18. I was
pretty close. It came like to 19.6, which I knew had to include everyone that was there,
myself and my husband, but yes we were asking for 17. Part of the reason why I think
that Planning and Zoning recommended for a denial was because they were looking at
the 24 figure, and I had not got the occupancy load from Daunt. The two other
daycares that are in subdivisions zoned for more than 13, one is for 17 also for 17 and
Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 21
the other one is for 25, but again she's the one that's across the street from the
elementary school. Thank you.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor, I'm perusing the Findings of Fact that were prepared for us by
Planning and Zoning. There's some inconsistency in the number of children being
requested be allowed at this facility. In addition, the recommendation is for denial. I
don't know how the rest of the council feels. My personal observation having been
through these things for the last 14 years as the folks in the audience can see this
evening, the daycares seem to raise a lot of interest in the community. We purposely
established limits based on previous experience and either over joyness of neighbors or
very ill will caused between neighbors because of these kinds of facilities were going
into neighborhoods. People not wanting commercial endeavors in their neighborhood.
This particular application initially got to my mind what would be a fairly sizable
commercial operation. Up to 24 children. Those issues have been discussed
numerous times in meetings like these. My inclination is to try to hold with the
precedent that we established by ordinance. However, I'm somewhat please with the
support of a neighbor and lack of objection by any other neighbor in this situation. I
would be inclined to look at a rewrite or at least a clarification of the numbers in the
Findings of Facts, and at this point, I would entertain approval.
Corrie: We have to close the hearing. Do you want me to close.
Rountree: That would be my recommendation. I'm not making that motion. I just make
that for discussion. I'm just rambling.
Corrie: Any other discussion? Hearing none, I will close the public hearing and you can
make that motion now Charlie if you like.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor I move that we direct Counsel to revise the Findings of Fact and
Conclusions of Law as prepared by Planning and Zoning to reflect the number of
children requested by the applicant. Also reflect the input provided by Daunt Whitman,
the City Building Inspector. Revise the decision in the Findings of Fact and Conclusions
of Law to indicate approval.
Anderson: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Rountree and second by Mr. Anderson to the motion to find
new Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law. Is there any further discussion? Hearing
none, all those in favor of the motion, say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: All ayes.
Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 22
Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I have a question for Wendell. I didn't see you at the "Y" last night.
My daughter was looking for you.
ITEM NO. 11: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR
A GROUP DAY CARE (6 TO 12 CHILDREN) BY TONYA WEBSTER - 3642 E.
EISENHOWER:
Corrie: I'll open the public hearing and invite Tanya or her representative to come here
to speak first.
TONYA WEBSTER WAS SWORN BY THE CITY ATTORNEY.
Webster: Do you have any questions?
Corrie: Questions from council from what they have in the Findings of Facts in front of
you?
Rountree: I would just ask the applicant if they have reviewed the Findings of Facts and
in general agreement with the conditions imposed?
Webster: Yes, I am.
Corrie: Any other comments or questions from Council? Okay, I'll see if there's
anybody else that would like to testify. Anybody else from the public would like to testify
on this? Okay, hearing none. Council, any discussion? I'll close the public hearing.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I make a motion that the City of Meridian approve and accept the
Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law as presented by P & z.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bentley and second by Mr. Bird that we accept the
Findings 9f Fact and Conclusion of Law as prepared by Planning and Zoning
Commission. Further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion say
aye.
ROLL CALL VOTE: Anderson, yea. Bird, yea. Bentley, yea. Rountree, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: All yeas.
Corrie: I'll entertain a motion for the decision.
Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 23
Bentley: The City of Meridian hereby approves the Conditional Use Permit requested
by the applicant for the property described in the above application.
Rountree: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bentley, second by Mr. Rountree to approve the
recommendation. Further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: All ayes.
Corrie: I have a feeling that the next one is going to be a little bit longer. If I might
entertain a motion that we take about a five minutes recess.
Bentley: So moved.
Bird: Second.
(FIVE MINUTES RECESS)
ITEM NO. 12: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR
A SECOND BUILDING FOR A FUEL ISLAND BY ALBERTSON'S, INC. -
SOUTHWEST CORNER OF W. CHERRY LANE & TEN MILE ROAD:
Corrie: At this time I'll open the public hearing and invite the Albertson's or their
representative to speak first.
KEN HOWELL WAS SWORN BY THE CITY ATTORNEY.
Howell: Mayor Corrie, Council members, this is an application for a conditional use
permit for a second building for a fuel island at the southwest corner ofW. Cherry Lane
and Ten Mile Road. I have here with me tonight some members from Albertson's, Inc.
who has questions arised from the council and mayor may ask them to appear and
address some questions that I myself wouldn't have the exact testimony to provide to.
I'd like first though before getting into the recommendations from the planning and
zoning c'ommission below to talk a little bit about how we got here. As the agenda notes
tonight, this is not a conditional use permit for a fueling station at this site. This is a
conditional use permit for a second building for a fuel island. The reason for that is that
this site is zoned C-N, which expressly allows convenience businesses, which meet the
daily needs of residents of immediate neighborhoods, including gas stations, and those
are permitted uses. We applied for a conditional use permit on this site because P & Z
staff determined that this could be a second principal detached building and not an
accessory building under Meridian City Code 2-405 subsection G. It's our position
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Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 24
especially given the marketing of the fuel station on this site and in general for
Albertson's fueling stations expressed that this is in fact an accessory building and that
no CUP is needed. Obviously because of the staff decision that's why we're here and
why we're here up on appeal. The definition of an accessory building under 2-403 is a
subordinate building detached from but located on the same lot as the principal building.
The use of which is incidental and accessory to that of the main building or use, and as
a facility for the sale of gasoline as incidental and occasional to other sales from the
Albertson's store. This development thus should not need a separate conditional use
permit as I've stated. Because of that decision of staff, that's why we're here now. I'm
sure there's some other folks here signed up to testify tonight, so unfortunately I don't
think we can have this matter resolved on by that basis so I'll proceed, but I will try to be
brief. The Planning and Zoning Commission below found in the Findings of Fact before
you found that this development is not harmonious with the comprehensive plan and
Meridian City ordinance due to primarily three things. Those are first the color scheme
for the proposed fueling station. Second, a concern of traffic flow on site, and third a
concern about noise, fumes, odors and glare that they would be excessive on this site.
Our contention is that the state of the record below does not support these conclusions,
and that the testimony presented here today in fact indicates that will not be the case.
Obviously Albertson's agrees as with any development, there is and should be a
concern over the requirements of Meridian ordinances regarding noise, traffic, odors
and glare. However, I'd like to emphasize that a concern over those items does not
equate to a denial of a request or that facts are established which mean that that
concerns' met. We are also concerned here because the generation of excessive
traffic, noise, odors and smoke would materially effect our retail grocery operation on
this site, and we have a vested interest in assuring that those things simply do not
happen. While I'm talking about concerns, I must.note for the record a concern over the
procedural circumstances of the drafting of the Planning and Zoning Commission's
Findings and Conclusions below and I certainly don't mean this pejorative, but I must
note this for the record. There was only one witness who testified below as to a
concern about any of the activities on this site. This is a neighbor, Bob Charters, across
the street, across Cherry Lane from this site. Mr. Charters testified that he was
concerned about generation of gasoline fumes from this site. There was no other public
testimony. However, Deputy City Attorney John Prior did note from the bench his
concerns in that he lived near this area and that he was concerned about traffic, about
noise, about odors and the like, and the Planning and Zoning Commission without
specific testimony on the record directed that Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law
be drafted. Those were drafted, and they strongly reflect the concerns addressed by
Mr. Prior. We have a concern as to this procedure in that I think it's suggests that the
state of the record below doesn't establish substantial and competent facts, which
address the issues which are before you in P & Z's recommended Findings and
Conclusions of Law. The primary issues though are those three identified and those are
first concern over COIOf. The Findings of Fact and Conclusions noted that the color
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Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 25
scheme and construction materials would not be harmonious with the appearance and
character of the general vicinity, this is found in paragraph BC of those proposed
Findings and Conclusions. The ordinance section 2-418 C3 provides that a
development must be harmonious and appropriate in appearance with existing or
intended character of the general vicinity and that the development wonlt change the
essential character of the area. Itls our position that this proposed fueling station in
particular, with regards to the color scheme is not inappropriate to the character of the
general vicinity. The statute does not require that the appearance be identical to the
surrounding vicinity, it only requires that it be compatible. We have over here a graphic
and 11m going to step away from the microphone for a minute to set this up. Hopefully
that will stay without falling off. Now I want the Council to know I liberated my cat's
favorite toy to use tonight to kind of point some of these things out so - you'll note that
the I'm pointing out the Albertson's Express logo and the color scheme is substantially
identical to the normal Albertson's corporate sign and color scheme, that's certainly
affixed to the sign exterior to the building and on the building face itself. The principle
store of the building where the grocery operations are carried out is block construction
below with some stucco above however the color scheme of the fueling station is
compatible and does tie in with the signage, color scheme and corporate logo of the
Albertson's grocery store and this would be our position that this is in fact harmonious
and appropriate in appearance with the existing general vicinity, granted it's not
identical, enter in reason that it is not a stucco frontage but the ordinance does not
require that, it merely requires that it be harmonious and it's our position that it does.
This is important to Albertson's for primarily the reason that these A Express stations
are being rolled out across the county, Albertson's would for marketing purposes want
to maintain a uniform appearance for branding purposes so that a customer will identify
this look with an Albertsonls Express site, second that it's a metal construction rather
than stucco, metal being a relatively clean appearance, ifs certainly easy to appear
easy for maintenance to hose it down or wash it off rather than a stucco appearance
which P & Z seemed to have a preference for in that stucco is something which
degrades more readily over time and is more difficult to maintain and keep a clean and
fresh appearance as this would be beyond the fact that this is kind of the industry
standard for the way fueling stations are constructed with this metal canopy. There was
a recommendation by Planning & Zoning that the kiosk, just this portion right in here
where the attendant will sit, be constructed out of something other than the metal siding,
thatls something Albertson's is certainly willing to consider and work with whether it be a
brick or block masonry facing material which is similar to the main building on the site,
that's something that we can certainly try to accommodate but as respects the canopy
we do have some substantial concerns that requiring stucco on that as P & Z seemed to
want, the canopy being this portion just up the top, Planning and Zoning Commission
you can read some of the public comments in there from the Commissioners that they
wanted that canopy to be stucco as well, that doesn't fit and from our position wouldn't
be harmonious with the balance of the signage on the site and moreover is more difficult
Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 26
to put up and degrades more over time. Thus it's our contention that this development
as proposed is. in fact harmonious with the general site. The second concern is that of
traffic, ACHD determined that there would be approximately 350 new trips generated to
the site with a total of 7100, meaning that as a result of the construction of this fueling
there's going to be an increase in trip generation of approximately 5% -- 5 %0/0, or
slightly less than that, 5% on this site and that fits with the general marketing plans for
Albertson's Inc. for these A Express fueling stations. The primary purpose of these
stations is to market to Albertson's existing grocery customers, approximately 850/0 of
which I can't say are single women but they are unattended women, meaning they're
there on their own and as they come into the site and use the grocery store they can
also fuel up without having to drive down the street and make another stop further on.
This particular location I think the nearest other gasoline station is one mile to the east
which is a Maverick store, I think it's the corner of Linder and Cherry and the nearest to
the west is the Cheese Factory which I think is more than a mile and maybe even a
couple of miles out, so I think this meets very nicely the requirements and concept of
the C-N zone to concentrate neighborhood uses in a particular area, reduce trip
generation and basically result in kind of a one stop shopping. The concern about traffic
though expressed by the Planning and Zoning Commission paragraph 8H says that it's
not the total traffic in and out of this site which is the concern rather it is the flow on site
and I'll have to be frank with the Council that that issue is not very well developed in the
record, I was not present at that hearing but I have read all of the transcripts and the
materials which were there, it's not very well defined what was being talked about, it's
our belief that the concern was over cueing and if I can point this out a little bit, this
fueling facility is located here at the northwest corner of the site, ifs located at the
entrance to Cherry Lane. Note that the fueling station is located in an east to west
fashion with three fueling stations of two sides each so a total of six fueling locations
there. The reason why it's sided east to west like this rather than north to south or in
some other orientation is that as automobiles come in here they can cue immediately to
the side on both sides rather than being stacked up horizontally out in this fashion and
so it's our belief that this orientation of the fueling station in fact improves traffic flow on
the site. There was also some questions as to why the site isn't located over here in the
north east comer of the site, the reason for that is that in our view materially impacts
traffic flow on this site and impacts pedestrian safety, the main entrance to the
Albertson's store is right here and as everyone knows when you go to find a spot to park
grocery shopping you park as close as you can to the front door thus this area in here
becomes the primary parking and as parking fills up it fills out in this fashion, the north
west corner is thus the least used site for parking and it leaves open this area for
parking in the store, reduces cars having to come in and travel in through here and thus
possibly causing congestion with pedestrians moving back and forth from their cars and
pushing grocery carts and the 'like so it's our belief that this orientation and location on
this site actually maximizes the traffic flow optimization and improves it to the best we
can do on this site. Finally that traffic flow should be enhanced by the marketing
Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 27
concepts for these A Express fueling stations and that is it's part of the marketing plan
that customers can pay for their fuel inside the grocery stofe when they purchase the
fuel and if they do that they get a discount on the gasoline purchase price therefore
there is an incentive for people to come in and do their grocery shopping before they get
their gasoline or at least come into the store to pay for it to get a discount on the
gasoline cost and that's what we'd ought to see based on that marketing plan is more
trips down into the stofe first with getting gasoline on the way out of the site rather than
cars simply ducking in to get gas and leaving on the site, obviously that will happen and
we think ACHD's probably about right in it's estimation of 350 additional trips per day for
that. Finally I'd note that as far as the record below is concerned there was no adverse
testimony on traffic merely an expressed concern. Two other issues, one is glare,
there was an expressed concern in the recommendation from P & Z that this would
generate excessive glare, I think the track record of Albertson's on this site and
expending significant additional sums and lowering the overall light standards in
adjusting the lighting in response of neighborhood concerns should speak strongly that
Albertson's itself is concerned about the glare on the site and the impacts on the
neighbors. A couple of important facts here to note and also here tonight is Kent Store
from Leonard Corporation is the supplier for the materials on this site and also the
supplier for the gasoline operation is that this western side of the fueling station contains
no lighting, there is no lighting which is going off site from that side. The balance of the
lighting on this particular kiosk is all downward focus, downward cast and downward
adjusted and even as the alternate recommendations from the Planning & Zoning
Commission below note that this is - we're required to meet the Meridian City lighting
requirements and certainly we are committed to do everything we can to reduce to a
minimum the glare from this location so basically I don't think that's a concern at all and
I'd also note that there wasn't any testimony in the record at all regarding glare even
though the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law indicated there would be excessive
glare generated. One final point and it's that regarding the generation of fumes, odors
and smoke, there is no testimony in the record below about the generation of fumes
from the site and I would again refocus the Council on the point that the operation of a
fueling center on this site is a permitted use, there is no need for a conditional use for
that concern but that point aside it's certainly to Albertson's interest not to generate
excessive or any fumes or odors from this location in that that materially impacts the
ability and willingness of customers to come into the Albertson's store not to do their
grocery shopping if the place always smells of fumes. There was some testimony as I
indicated earlier from a neighbor across Cherry Lane here who has a backyard who
testified that he was concerned about the generation of gasoline fumes which would
impact his ability to hold outdoor barbecues and I'd submit that if we've got fumes
coming off of that site in that concentration across the street we've probably got an
explosive situation at the station, something else is wrong and that's certainly not the
way the site's going to be operated. The general experience of Albertson's with other
sites at this location I think the general experience of anyone around fueling stations
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Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 28
such as this is that there simply isn't any excessive generation of odors off the site from
fueling operations that is customers fueling gasoline into their cars. Regarding any
expressed concern about fueling from refueling of the station by both trucks causing a
concern we have the representative again here tonight from Leonard Equipment that
will talk about that. The fueling contractor on this site we'll use what's called a zero
vapor or no vapor emission system where as the - and it's all gravity fed, there are no
noisy pumps or anything running from the truck but as the truck couples up to the tanks
and that's kind of in this pad location right here, as the truck couples up to the tanks as
the fuel evacuates from the truck another pipe evacuates the vapors back up into the
truck so those are all removed from the site and there's as the name implies hopefully
it's 100% zero emission on the site so that shouldn't be a concern either. I think that's it
for the items which were addressed by Planning & Zoning Commission below and the
recommendation to you obviously I stand ready for questions or to the extent I can't
answer them I'd certainly ask some of the Albertson's representatives here tonight to
answer those questions, I would though just like to reiterate again the whole reason we
got here is not because of the fueling operations on this site, that's a permitted use in
this zone, the concern is really rather whether this small 70 square foot kiosk located on
the Albertson's Express fueling location site is another principle building or whether it's
merely an accessory building. If there are any questions at this time I'd be happy to try
and answer them.
Bentley: Yes, I've got several questions for you. How come your kiosk isn't designed
like the one in Eagle?
Howell: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Bentley, the reason why the kiosk isn't designed like
the one in Eagle is because there's a different store design. The store design in Eagle
was done the way it was principally because of the requirements of the City of Eagle
and the kiosk was designed to match the store, that's not the concern at this site, the
kiosk is designed with respect to the signage to match the store and the kiosk itself in
the construction of metal materials is designed to mask that corporate image issue that I
addressed earlier.
Bentley: But my problem with your colors on that it looks like it's just an oversized sign
rather than being just a kiosk. Next question I've got is how many parking spaces are
you losing to your fueling island?
Howell: There would be sixteen parking positions lost even with those parking positions
lost this siting still meets the applicable parking codes, there was at least sixteen extra.
Bentley: But your parking that you have north of that on Cherry Lane is going to be
useless.
Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 29
Howell: You're talking right in here?
Bentley: Right, it's going to be unusable space when you have traffic coming in people
will not use that because they won't be able to get out.
Howell: Certainly the principle parking fOf the stofe facility here as I indicated before
over here in the north east region to the extent that there's all those spaces are full I
don't see any reason why parking couldn't be used there, obviously it's going to - I'd
agree with you, that's going to be parking of last resort but it is available parking for the
site.
Bentley: Are all your stores, your side stores to the west, are they all occupied at this
time?
Howell: Once again, I'm sorry.
Bentley: Your additional stores that you have to the west of your Albertson's store, the
pizza parlor and all those places, are all those buildings fully occupied now?
Howell: I don't know that and perhaps one of the Albertson's folks could answer that, I
don't know. -- I'm being told no but I don't know that.
Bentley: Okay. How are you going to remedy the - you say with your layout of your
pumps that you won't have a stacking problem but I see you're going to have a stacking
problem because you're going to have people pulling in those pumps from both sides
and your stacking problem is going to some out over your main exit, your only exit on
Cherry Lane, how are you going to alleviate that or control that?
Howell: There was some comment by ACHD that in addition to signage, a stop sign in
this location that there also be some barring some paint stripes put in there. I think the
natural flow of this site would be such that cueing is minimized by this orientation and
that any other orientation on that site would impact cueing.
Bentley: Where is your building line in conjunction with the storm drain pond?
Howell: Mayor, Councilman Bentley, that was a concern addressed below, there are
some storage - drainage storage facilities located in this area, through conversations
which are reflected in the record with the architects and DEQ, I think that was
addressed that they're confident that they can meet any requirement for the relocation
of those storm drainage so that it won't impact the site.
Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 30
Bentley: How about the sewer and water easements? There are not sewer easements
along that edge up there?
Howell: I don't think this fueling location site impacts any of the sewer or water
easements itself.
Bentley: Thank you.
Corrie: Other questions?
Anderson: Mr. Mayor, on this the kiosk is the small building?
Howell: The kiosk is this little attendant booth that is about 70 square feet underneath
what we call the canopy at the top.
Anderson: I donlt know if I read it in the Findings of Fact and Conclusions or where I got
it but somewhere it was suggested that possibly making that a little bit larger to sell
soda pop and chips, is that a possibility or it's not or -
Howell: Even within that small 70 square foot there is a plan for some very limited retail
sales of items which would be attendant to a fueling operation such as oil, such as ice
scrapers, things of that nature, within 70 square feet there simply isn't enough room to
stock much material, there's no plan that I know of to expand that beyond that current
size.
Anderson: And the top view on the right hand side there just shows two islands, there's
actually three islands?
Howell: Mayor Corrie, Councilman Anderson, yes that's right, it actually does show
three, there's one here where the little car is, there's another one there and then there's
one there. On this - yeah, if you look at this layout there, here's the kiosk and then one
in front of it and behind it, there are I think two in front of it, there's a fueling location as
well so there are actually three, there's one here that you aren't seeing from this view
because the kiosk blocks it but there are three.
Anderson: And the overall height of this awning is somewhere fourteen, sixteen?
Howell: I think it's seventeen feet.
Anderson: So there'll be quite a bit of lighting in there directed downwards?
Howell: All directed downward yes.
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Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 31
Anderson: And if my memory serves me correctly this whole area of the parking lot's
kind of low, I mean it's bermed around there and that whole area is kind of recessed
three or four feet.
Howell: Yeah, it's tough to see I'm sure from where you're sitting but if you could see
the berm here and as you come in it down a little bit yes from the street.
Anderson: And your current drainage for the parking lot now is the retention for that is
that back behind the building?
Howell: I'm not entirely sure, I believe it's actually located underneath, I'd have to defer
to Paul Lawrence or to Craig Slocum for that Councilman Anderson, I don't know.
Anderson: I guess in my other life I'm a firefighter and I know accidents happen and
quite often there's fuel spills that accompany gas stations, I'm just concerned about
where that's going to go, if ifs a retention pond that's on site or if it's some underground
storage in the form of drain rock or what that is.
Howell: Yeah, Mayor Corrie, Councilman Anderson, that's certainly something that
concerns Albertson's as well not only from the concern you expressed the fire hazard
but also because of the environmental and DEQ concerns.
Anderson: And there is a nearby canal just back behind this facility too so - and the
primary reason for not going to the north east corner is traffic is that your concern?
Howell: Mayor Corrie, Councilman Anderson, that's our concern is that actually on this
side if we go up here to the north west corner it worsens traffic flow because you've got
cars coming in here off Ten Mile right past the entrance which are going to be coming
up this way which impedes the pedestrian flow, people going out with shopping carts,
that's right.
Anderson: Right now most of the Albertson's employees and the two of the retail shops
that are occupied to the west, those folks park over on the far west side of the property
and I don't know if you have tenants lined up for the other two retail spaces that are
available there but (end of tape) -
Howell: -- and with the parking spaces removed for the construction of this fueling
center the parking does meet all applicable codes.
Anderson: I have no other questions.
Corrie: Any further questions at this time?
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Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 32
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Anyone else who would like to issue testimony at this time? Yes sir?
Crookston: Would you state your name and address please.
Kelly: Stanton Kelly, 3492 W. Fir Creek.
STANTON KELLY WAS SWORN BY THE CITY ATTORNEY.
Kelly: Well I'm hearing all of this and I donlt have a fancy pointer but lid like to point
where I live on this map. I about six, seven months ago bought a house that was in a
cul-de-sac itls Fir Creek Court, I should have said Court, right there two story house and
if lid have known they were even considering putting a gas station practically in my
backyard I wouldnlt have bought it, I don't think anybody would buy it with this view.
Welve all seen, I heard about the lighting but we've all seen these type of stations and
the lights that are under here are - this will be eye level to my master bedroom and you
know really, if Albertson's wanted to be honest about it they would have applied for this
when they applied for this but I think they probably knew that you wouldn't get this if you
put this in there and the reason I donlt know, the only reason I can see from moving it
from here to here is because it's probably a damn eyesore for Albertson's in front of
their building also and I just - late night noise and everything - I bought it in a
residential neighborhood you know the house not thinking it was going to be noisy all
the time and I just - I know it makes a lot of money for Albertson's but it certainly
doesn't help my property value one bit. The same thing, I think the same thing we know
the controversy probably some of the controversy that happened, Albertson's did the
same thing in Eagle, first they put in the stofe and then they come back and want to put
in a gas station and you can call it fancy terms or whatever but it's a gas station with
doors slamming late at night, with cars coming and going, boom boxes, lighting, the
whole thing and I just feel like if it was a bank or a dentists office or a doctors office I
wouldn't have any complaints but a gas station, a bar or whatever that goes all hours of
the night I just don't -I really strongly protest, I don't have the money to get a lawyer yet
but you know if this proceeds maybe the homeowners can come up with something but
I'm real discouraged about buying a new house and then having a gas station put in my
backyard practically that I don't think anybody would buy a house if they knew that was
going to happen. Thank you.
Corrie: Thank you Mr. Kelly, any questions Council? None? Okay, thank you Mr.
Kelly. Anyone else? Yes Ma'am?
Crookston: Would you state your name and address please.
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Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 33
Christman: My name is MaryAnn Christman, I live at 3440 Elm Creek and Parkside
Creek directly behind the Albertson's.
MARYANN CHRISTMAN WAS SWORN BY THE CITY ATTORNEY
Christman: Can I use your fancy pointer?
Howell: You bet, just leave it over there for everybody, it's the little button on the side,
don't hit yourself in the eye you'll -
Christman: As long as it doesn't blow up.
Howell: It won't.
Christman: I live directly back behind this canal here and I represent basically
approximately 40 people who I have spoke to who also live along this street directly
behind this canal here both on the homes that back up to it and across the street as
well. I have spoke to all of them just about and got all of their feedback, I have to tell
you that I was the one that was involved in Albertson's in getting the lighting reduced
from the situation that it was before when it first went up because I not only lived in the
neighborhood at the time because at the time I was across the street renting while my
house was being built and the lighting was hitting the master bedroom across the street
approximately three streets away so I was very much involved with that process and
getting that taken care of so I'm pretty much in tune to what's been going on here and I
am very concerned about this gas station that I - I mean to me it's a full fledged gas
station. I have to tell you that everybody that I've spoke to first of all there's been a real
confusion as far as exactly where it was located and what the circumstances are, for
example what hours are they proposing? Nobody knows about the hours, is it going to
be the same hours that the store is open now? So there's a concern there. Everybody
that I have spoke to does not want it where it's located, they feel where ifs located is a
real major concern. When The Statesman contacted me yesterday I indicated to them
that I and others did not feel it was going to be a real problem as long as it was located
in the opposite corner which is the north east, it seemed to be a general consensus that
that was okay as long as they understood exactly what was involved as far as hours
and some other circumstances. As far as the lighting issue, we were real concerned
about that because the gentleman that spoke earlier from Albertson's said that their
lighting met all the requirements, well he wasn't the one that was sleeping in the houses
behind the store, I don't know what their requirements are but we felt like we were
sleeping in a football field so if he's saying that this building is meeting the lighting
requirements I can tell you that it was a real serious problem before so I have to tell you
that there are several people who don't want it, absolutely don't want it and are real
upset about it and there are lots of people who are saying they will not accept where it is
Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 34
now absolutely but may not mind it being on the other corner. He talked about the
traffic situation, weill can tell you that I shop there regularly and I can tell you that a
whole lot of traffic comes in here and there is not everybody has occupied this building
here as far as businesses, there's only a couple of them and I see a lot of parking going
on in this area, I've observed that a lot and I am also a real estate agent and have been
for many years and I can tell you there's a tremendous amount of growth out in this area
so my concern is there's going to be a lot of people coming down this way, going in here
in this general area as far as traffic. What I'm also very concerned about and many of
the neighbors that I have talked to are as well, I did at one time rent across the street in
Cherry Lane Subdivision, I have a thirteen year old daughter that I occasionally send
across the street to pick up milk for me and bread, my concern is that if it's located here
and this was express and I unfortunately haven't heard this from Albertson's or anybody
so far tonight and I'm a little upset about that, I'm concerned about the safety of the
children who with mom's like me will send our kids across the street to pick up milk and
if this building was over here I'd feel a little bit better about it because as we know kids
don't always go down, cross the crosswalk, go back over this way and down you know
so with this building here I think with all the growth out in this direction, a lot of traffic
coming from this direction going in here to maybe just fuel up that these kids coming
from over here to get milk and bread for mom may not always cross the crosswalk and
that's a real concern to me, if this building was over on this side we feel that the kids
would most likely you know not have encounter as much traffic, that perhaps some of
the traffic getting gas would come up this way or down this way but that is a real issue
too. Another thing that we're concerned about is you know 11m not sure what this Eagle
situation is like, I haven't been out there to look at it but I do know in remembering
driving by there, the Eagle store does not have the residence around it that this
particular store does from what I remember I mean we've got a lot more residence
around this particular store and so I think that that is a bigger concern than what the
Eagle store in encountering and as far as the noise I think there's going to be a lot of
noise that's encountered in that situation, you've got a lot more homes that are a lot
closer to this that are literally - this fellow that spoke that's on Fir Creek, I mean you can
probably throw a rock and hit his home and maybe throw it a little bit harder I mean my
home is like right here and I 'm concerned again about the lighting problem that we had
before and I know a lot of these people are concerned about the lighting problem and I
think he's correct, they say oh, the lighting's going to point downwards well, I think
there's just going to be a glow there and we have enough night lights in our bedrooms
as it is with the existing lighting so - and I would like the - see if we can find the answer
as far as what kind of hours that they're proposing but for the general consensus of all
the people that I have spoke to on the street is either we definitely don't want it where it
is now and we're real upset about that because the exposure things I spoke about and
some people may not mind it if it was over on this corner because with the pizza place
and all the traffic going on here as well as the entrance to Albertson's being on this side,
the other businesses being on this side, now the gas station on this side, growth coming
Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 35
a lot from this side, to us it's just a potential major problem and hazard to our children
and to the noise level and all the traffic and whatnot.
Corrie: The gentleman in the back here I believe was getting up. Yes?
Crookston: Would you please state your name and address.
Charters: My name is Bob Charters, address is 3280 Sugar Creek Drive which is
located right there on that corner, the doctor's office behind me.
BOB CHARTERS WAS SWORN BY THE CITY ATTORNEY.
Charters: Number one, I got 32 signatures here if it means anything I'll turn them in to
you. Those are from people around Sugar Creek Drive area. One of the people who
live on Woodmont, 3300, I understand that their child was hit crossing across the road
there. I have a question for Albertson's number one, I listen to the ads on the TV and
they always say this is your store, is this false advertisement because we're concerned
about it and they still want to build it there, I don't - you know if it's my store then listen
to what the public says. In reference to fuel service stations there is a Maverick at
Linder and on up the road another mile is a Circle K on Cherry Lane, over on Franklin
there's an Amoco, there's a Texaco and a Farm Store on Meridian and Overland,
there's another Phillips 66 being constructed on Fairview, a Texaco on Fairview and a
Standard down at Fred Meyers. I don't see that we need a service station at this
location to improve Albertson's income which would devalue the property of our homes.
There's a school crossing that should also be considered down about right here and
with the increased amount of traffic and children crossing that crossing to go to and
from school with the 350 extra cars I think would be very detrimental to our children. I
don't have any children, I've got mine all raised but I've got grandchildren. It is my
understanding that this will be build and they've already brought it out that there is a
drain field and it does drain right there because I went over and checked it out, it is a
runoff for rainwater but it goes into the sewer or where it goes I have no idea and the
fact of fumes, if we smelled fumes you'd have an explosion, there's a lot of myth in that
becaus-e you can smell gas fumes, you have to worry about your flash point and fumes
aren't going to flash if they're not really bad but you can still smell them. It's my
understanding that Albertson's was given a permit with the understanding that there
would be no gas station built and now they're trying to get the gas station. They tried to
put a Circle K in right behind my house and the people in that part of the subdivision got
an attorney and went to court and got it disqualified. Ifs also my understanding that the
City of Meridian does not want service stations on either one of those four corners at the
Ten Mile and Cherry Lane so I'd appreciate it if you'd deny this. Thank you.
Corrie: Is there anyone else? Yes?
Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 36
Crookston: Would you state your name and address please.
Shelton: Kenneth Shelton, 3225 W. Woodmont Drive in Meridian.
KENNETH SHELTON WAS SWORN BY THE CITY ATTORNEY.
Shelton: Mr. Mayor, distinguished members of the Council, a little over three years ago
I was standing before this council for the same reason 11m standing here now. Some
faces of the council have changed, the players have changed but the people in the
community and the location are virtually the same. The point of focus has changed but
a little over 100 feet from where it was three years ago. 11m referring to the property just
north of the property in question tonight. It was also requesting a variance to put a
convenience and gas station on the old Fuller property. As I see it today the very same
reasons for refusing to grant that variance back then still hold true today. They include:
depreciation of property values, depreciation of character of the neighborhood, health
hazards including gas fumes from pumps and tank vents and from cars waiting to gas
up or cars left running as drivers run into the convenience stofe just for a pack of
cigarettes or a beer. This also increases the crime rate from those cars being stolen left
running, loitering, increased glare from additional lighting which has been a problem in
this parking lot from the start, until the doctor's office was built I could still read my paper
in my living room at midnight without the use of artificial light. The problem in this
parking lot due to overcrowding my wife informed me at 4:00 this evening the parking lot
was virtually full. Loss of privacy from increased traffic and noise levels. I have several
letters from neighbors in the area who were opposed to this kind of business back then
and still are today. I would like to draw your attention to one letter previously submitted
in particular from Miss Judith Lulley. Her letter is of a personal experience having lived
next to a gas station convenience stofe for a number of years. Her experiences include
excessive and unreasonable levels of noise, boom boxes blasting at all hours as people
gas up, repeated vandalism to her property, people loitering, kids smoking and fighting
in the parking lot and excessive accumulations of trash and debris on the premises
subsequently being blown by the winds on surrounding properties. Yes, the faces and
the location have changed from three years ago but the problems we face are still the
same. The 180 people who signed the previous petition against that very same cause
then are still valid and the same today. That is why I and those who have spoken in the
past, respectfully request that you deny this request for a variance as you did in the past
when the quality of our life in our community has been threatened. I thank you for your
time and consideration in this matter.
Corrie: Thank you Mr. Shelton. Any questions Council? Thank you very much.
Crookston: Just state your name and address please.
/
\
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Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 37
Lovan: My name is Wally Lovan. I live at 3415 Cherry Lane.
WALLY LOVAN WAS SWORN BY THE CITY ATTORNEY.
Lovan: Mayor and Council, I stand here, I was misled in the first letter that I received, I
thought the service station was going to be built in the north east corner of their so
called lot no. 1 which was wrong, I should have read a little longer into it. Right now I do
back the finding of our P & Z. 3415 is right here, my front room is right here, I'm forty-
feet from this right here. I'm sure that I'm going to receive lots of noise, ACHD
expressed that there would be approximately 350 cars per day, 350 cars per day
banging their car door right in my back yard, right in my living room is a little bit much,
there's quite a few banging right now. There are other problems that is with my
property, Albertson's and myself, my property has about an acre and a half, it is zoned
commercial and I run along this ditch line and out in front here. According to ACHD,
Albertson's and my property has to have a common crossing. I have a finding right here
in my file where at one time Albertson's said the common crossing would be right here
between my property and their property. There is also in the - ACHD also required
Albertson's to place a cross road where the cross road would be because they are
adamant that it will happen and it shows nothing here about a cross road. I can't make
myself believe that this is a proper spot to do this, there is too much opposition from my
neighbors, I worked in a service station when I was a kid and there are some things that
they have fixed where fumes and stuff are not as high as they are today but I cannot
make myself believe that they can take care of all the fumes and everything. My carport
is right here and about three or four nights a week I go out there and barbecue so I
highly recommend that the councilmen here that they do abide by the recommendation
from P & Z and what more can I say. I am also concerned with the hours that will be
used with the car banging and the boom boxes and everything that I hear now is going
to be much, much closer to me. If is starts at 6:00 in the morning when they open the
doors, I don't know what time they open the doors, I'm sure ifs going to be almost
unbearable to live there, it is zoned commercial and it will eventually be sold as
commercial property, hopefully it can be of something that the neighborhood could use,
right now I have a full size bank trying to buy me out, I have a hardware store that's
trying to buy me out, I have a dentist that's trying to buy me out, eventually I will be
selling and then I won't have no problem with Albertson's. Another thing that bothers
me deeply with this plan here that they have, incidentally right in this point right here
they have a large, large water collecting storage bin under the asphalt and that's where
it's collected. Another thing that concerns me is also water and sewer. Albertson's and
I have had discussions about this before and I am on their sewer line and my
recollection of the sewer line that was put in smaller than was recommended by one of
our staff members over here behind me, now is it going to handle the other four stores
in here and this? I think that's something that needs to be checked into also. Outside of
that, I don't have too many quarrels with it. It would be better if they are going to have it,
(
Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 38
it would be better here. I can visualize a cross over road between my property and here
somewhere along in this area with 350 cars trying to get across it every day. I thank
you.
Corrie: Anyone else? Yes?
Crookston: Would you state your name and address please.
Erdman: My name is Leonard Erdman and I live at 1212 North Cedar Creek Place in
Meridian in Parkside Creek Subdivision.
LEONARD ERDMAN WAS SWORN BY THE CITY ATTORNEY.
Erdman: Weill would just like to say that I don't want the A Express there. I think it
looks very - I really believe it's going to devalue my home and I have concerns about
safety such as spills, fires, also we all know that gas stations are the object of burglars
and I don't want - they're just easy to rob and I don't want a burglar running through
Parkside Creek. Also, this is Cherry Lane right here and we do have a center turn lane
right here and then coming from this way we have a median right here and the median
dead ends about right here and of course there's a light right here so if you're going to
be having traffic come from this way and they have to go past the median and pull in
here and there's only a short distance right here in this turn lane right here and if you
have people coming from this way and people coming from this way weill see it
creating like maybe a possibility of having a car accident right in here from people
coming through the light and then having to stop to get in this center lane to turn right
into here. Also you're going to have people coming from Ten Mile this way and instead
of going up here to the light and turning left and coming in they're going to come in here
and they're going to jet right through here or here and I have noticed just within the last
six months when I come to shop here this parking lot is getting fuller and busier all the
time and so I would ask you to reject Albertson's proposal for this gas station, thank
you.
Corrie: Yes sir, back in the back.
Crookston: Would you state your name and address please.
Shin: My name is Guy Shin, I live at 3539 W. Fir Creek Court.
GUY SHIN WAS SWORN BY THE CITY ATTORNEY.
Shin: I guess myself and many of my neighbors are not in favor of this plan, I see
several things wrong with it, I can understand and fully appreciate Albertson's wanting to
(
Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 39
come into the community and do a service and of course make a profit but I think that
this is perhaps not a good plan. The gasoline fumes although the tanker truck might
have a sealed system where when they put the fuel in they take care of the effluent
gases, all the vehicles that come in there during the day as we pump our tanks full the
effluent gas comes out and of course gets into the air and if we think about an additional
350 automobiles plus maybe 150 already that's going to be at the store and fueling up
so maybe we have 500 more vehicles a day given a fourteen hour period, that's a
vehicle every two minutes approximately filling up, that's a lot of effluent gas and that's
not talking about the gas that it takes the exhaust thafs emitted while that vehic1es
sitting there idling, waiting for another vehicle to move out of the way or a truck that
comes in at 2:00 in the morning to fuel those tanks up, while" that diesel's there for 40
minutes until he gets clearance or the key to unlock a cap to put some fuel in. I think
another area of concern is there's a couple of vacant shops yet, businesses will be
moving in there, they're going to generate a healthy business I'm sure, they'll need
parking spaces, they'll have quite a traffic flow in that area also. I think probably a better
area would be the north east corner but really and truly I would like it if it were not there,
I think that maybe perhaps we're trying to squeeze too much business into that
shopping center, there1s only so many square feet there, keeping in mind that
everything west and basically south of that shopping center is residential, it's right in the
heart of a residential neighborhood, putting a little bit too much in there is going to put a
little pressure on that area I think. I think one of the neat things about Meridian while
we're experiencing some growth we still have room to walk around and not have to
stand in line for everything, I like that and I'd like to keep that in the community and I
would urge that perhaps this plan not be passed and I thank you for your time.
Corrie: Anyone else? Yes sir?
Lauber: My name is Lowell Lauber, I live at 3431 W. Elm Creek Drive.
LOWELL LAUBER WAS SWORN BY THE CITY ATTORNEY.
Lauber: I live across the street from Mary Ann, I face north and I get to look at this
wonderful Albertson's building all the time but I can still see around the corner of it right
where that gas station's going to be. When I bought my home two years ago I knew
Albertson's was coming that was fine, I agreed to that, I did not know a gas station was
coming. I don't think I want to sit in my living room and look out my window and look at
a - it's a plain old cheap gas station any way you look at it. The last two letters of
notices of meetings we got and the map that came with them showed that in the north
east corner, I didn't know it was moved until tonight. If ifs in the north east corner out of
sight, out of mind then I wouldn't care, right there no, ifs a residential neighborhood and
I don't think anybody can sit and look at it. Thank you.
Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 40
Corrie: Anyone else that wishes to testify? Yes ma'am?
Johnson: I'm Jean Johnson, 1955 N. Aronmink.
JEAN JOHNSON WAS SWORN BY THE CITY ATTORNEY.
Johnson: I'm not a speaker so - I'm just appalled at Albertson's, I thought they were our
friendly neighbors and I think this is terrible, I don't want the gas station anywhere on
this corner. I live two blocks across that little open way so it's not like I have to look at it
I just think ifs awful for the neighborhood and if I could get petitions to sign I'll be out
walking with it.
Corrie: Thank you. Anyone else? You get one crack at it, we don't want to be here all
night, we have - Albertson's can make a rebuttal if they wish and they're the last word
here so pick whoever you want.
Crookston: Just state your name again.
Howell: Ken Howell and I recognize I believe I'm still under oath. Mayor Corrie, Council
members, I'd like to address a few of the concerns that were raised by some of the
neighbors tonight. I'd like to re-iterate at the outset. This site is zoned C-N, it is zoned
for the use which includes fueling stations such as this and convenience stores
including the sale of gasoline. It's zoned especially for this purpose to serve small
neighborhoods to cluster neighborhood uses in this site thereby eliminating traffic flow
elsewhere such as the concern that was expressed by a number of the witnesses
testifying about traffic flow along Cherry Lane and concerns with children crossing there,
not only the school crossing but also those who don't follow the traffic ordinances and
cross the center of the road rather than following the crosswalks. So the overall
concept and purpose behind this zone and this type of use in this zone is to cluster
these sort of sites together and thereby minimize traffic and minimize traffic flow and I
think that's exactly what this site will do and I think that's what ACHD's traffic study
would indicate that it would do. First regarding the underground drainage part, while
people were talking I did flip back through the materials and I believe the City Council's
packet will reflect the correspondence from the City Engineer's office which indicates
that they have worked and talked closely with the architects on this project and do not
believe that there's going to be a concern with relocation of the drainage facilities, there
is a necessity to relocate those drainage facilities if this fueling station is put in that
location, that's something that Albertson's is committed to do and will do so in a fashion
that does not raise a problem with drainage on the site. There was some concern
expressed regarding that Albertson's should have applied for a gas station and a
grocery store both at the same time. This site is zoned for both, being zoned C-N there
was no need to apply at the site and actually it's our position that since this is an
Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 41
ancillary building and not a primary building on the site there really isn't even any need
to apply for a CUP permit to begin with. Regarding the lighting I think I was pretty plain
up front that we know this is a concern on this site, we've worked cooperatively with the
neighbors before with other lighting concerns on the site, we've made a commitment to
make sure that lights here are downcast and that they're minimized as much as
possible, we will comply with the city ordinances on lighting and lighting requirements
and I don't believe that's a concern on the site. There was a concern expressed about
fumes generated from the site especially by neighbors across the street, I have
observed that Cherry Lane is a relatively busy arterial, I suspect that there's probably as
many fumes generated from traffic on that site as there would be from (inaudible)
fueling operations for individual cars on this site. A Mr. Shelton I believe it was
indicated that there was an application for a variance on a site to the north of this, that's
not an issue here of course because this site is zoned and does not require a variance
for this type of application. Mr. Lovan indicated that he's about 40 feet away from this
site, I think the actual property dimensions he's at least 150 feet away from the location
of this fueling station. There was concern about increased risk of crime or burglary on
the site and burglars running around through the neighborhood, one of the marketing
concepts for this site as I indicated earlier is that there is a discount offered if gasoline is
purchased inside the store, the way that works is that gasoline is purchased inside the
store, the customer gets a script or token or card with a validation number goes out -
enters that validation number on the fueling stations and there's little or less cash
exchanged outside than there would be in an ordinary convenience stofe facility. Also, I
think the expressed concern regarding burglary was probably directed more to the
Circle K type or other similar type convenience store where there are many other things
such as beer and the like, in fact one of the witnesses expressly talked about concern of
cars left running while people run inside to get beer at the convenience store, that's not
being sold at this location, there shouldn't be a concern with that. Regarding fueling
trucks coming in, fueling operations, it's been Albertson's experience with these sites
that they require about four fueling operations per week, during fueling operations the
fueling truck in shut off, it is not idling, the truck requires no keys from the attendant their
access ports are directly in the pad outside and it is a very definite policy that the trucks
be shut down so they don't sit there and idle because that is a major source of noise
and Albertson's is aware of that and is committed to assure that that does not occur.
The final witness testified that there was a concern about the traffic flow overall
increasing here and that this is perhaps an inappropriate use on this site given the fact
that the surrounding area is primarily residential. I'd relay once again that as the site is
zoned C-N, this is exactly the type of use that the zoning contemplates and encourages
for this type of site and this type of neighborhood to concentrate those kind of activities
to service the daily needs of residents in one location, minimize trip generation off site.
So with that I stand available for any questions that the Councilor the Mayor might
have.
Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 42
Bentley: Yes, several people asked what the hours of operation are.
Howell: I'm sorry Mr. Mayor, Councilman Bentley, I meant to mention that, it's the hours
of operation of the stofe which are currently from 6 to 12.
Bentley: So what happens if you decide the growth warrants going 24 hours in the
store?
Howell: The concept would be that the operation fueling station would follow the
operation hours of the store.
Bentley: Where are your vent stacks located for the tanks?
Howell: I believe they're up the center of the canopy located at the top in that location,
is that right? So on the far south east corner of the canopy.
Bentley: What hours do your trucks come in and dump their fuel?
Howell: Generally trucks come in the evening hours or early morning hours because
that's when traffic is minimized.
Bentley: Okay, thank you.
Corrie: Mr. Bird?
Bird: Mr. Howell, was the location ever at the north east corner?
Howell: Mayor Corrie, Councilman Bird, to the best of my knowledge no it has never
been, we tried to confirm that, even the letters that went out never as far as we know
indicated that that was on the north east corner, I realize that some of this is probably
kind of confusing because the site in general, the store site is described as the south
west corner and then being on the north west corner of that site is kind of p)nfusing.
Corrie: Mr. Anderson?
Anderson: Mr. Howell, several people testified that they would be in favor of this if it
was moved to the north east corner, is Albertson's opposed to doing that and are they
also opposed to changing the looks of the awning to dress it up a little bit more and
address some of the neighborhood concerns?
Howell: In general, as I've expressed before, yes that's not a preferred site to put it in
the north east section, we believe it actually causes more traffic flow on that site or
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Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 43
causes more traffic problems on that site if it is in the north east corner so on
addressing that point I would have to say that Albertson's very strong preference is that
it not be moved to that corner. If the City Council would approve only this site if it were
in the north east location of this site obviously that's something that Albertson's I think
would seriously consider moving to but it's our strong preference that it not be placed in
that site at all for the reasons that I've mentioned before. Regarding the appearance of
the kiosk, no Albertson's doesn't have any problem working with the kiosk. With the
appearance of the canopy yes that is a problem for the reasons I've stated especially
going to a stucco, if we're talking about something other than a stucco and staying with
a metal approach I think we can work with that but the comments below about going to
the stucco we have a real problem with, our experience with the Eagle site indicates
that there's probably going to be some durability and maintenance problems with them
and we don't simply want to go that way at all.
Rountree: Several people indicated and I've observed that the use at that site probably
is at or exceeding Albertson's projection, I don't know for sure but the parking lot is near
capacity, I understand full well that you're within the prescribed number of parking spots,
the bottom line is though it seems odd to me that Albertson's will preclude parking for
their customers and parking for additional customers at the two shops that are open and
future customers on the two shops that will open hopefully in the near future providing
services to that neighborhood. I just don't think it's a good plan from that perspective, I
think that it's short sited, it's myopic in that regard, I agree again, I agree that you've
indicated that it's consistent with the space requirements but people are not going to
trade at that facility that's difficult to get into and if it's difficult to find a parking place.
Albertson's found the same situation in their other location in Meridian, that parking lot
was a nightmare and at times still is, I haven't heard anybody address that in any
scientific form at all and to me that's my major concern with the proposal.
Howell: Mayor Corrie, Councilman Rountree, I'll try to address that as best I can. As
noted even with the removal of the 16 parking spaces for this fueling station we will be
in compliance with the requirements for parking. Certainly to the extent that the parking
lot fills up from time to time that's the good fortune of Albertson's for having the
patronage that it does, it does not mean however that the parking lot is always full nor
that parking is always a problem, there are going to Qe certain congested times of the
day when people travel to and from the store when there are going to be congestion
problems and I think that's inherent in the nature of any business that as a retail trade
catering to people who as their time permits come either before work or at lunch hour
or immediately after work to stop and patronize a facility such as this so we certainly
recognize that to the extent there are some time periods during the day when there are
parking concerns that would not be the case 24 hours a day. I don't really know how to
address your state of concern other than observe that fact that it is not a continual
problem and no one described it as continual, it's isolated and on a periodic basis-
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Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 44
Rountree: In my opinion, just the admission that at times it's a concern - (end of tape) a
concern period, whether it's two hours a day or 18 hours a day or 24 hours a day it's a
concern, it's an issue, it's not been addressed and it won't be addressed by further
reducing the size of the parking lot.
Howell: Mayor Corrie, Councilman Rountree, I agree with you that at times during the
day to the extent that the parking lot is full you're going to have a congestion problem, to
the extent that's true, you have a congestion problem whether there's an extra 16
spaces or not, whether it's in the removal of 16 extra spaces beyond that required here
is material in that analysis, I would tend to think not.
Corrie: I have a question that bothers me a bit on your statement at the beginning. You
said this was zoned C-N, is it Albertson's opinion that they don't have to go through this
CUP?
Howell: Mayor Corrie, yes that was my point at the very beginning is that the only
reason we are here and the only reason we were before P & Z is because of a staff
concern that this kiosk constitutes -let me get the language from the ordinance exactly
- constitutes a principle building which is defined as the main or principle use of the lot
on which the building is situated rather than an accessory building which is defined as a
subordinate building detached from but located on the same lot as the principle building.
The concern that this was an additional principle building on this lot, that's the way if
you'll - the application which should be part of your packet - the application letter dated
March 11, 1998 indicates in the fourth paragraph that this kiosk will constitute a second
building on this site, a termination at P & Z staff level was that because they had a
concern it was a principle building that we should proceed with the CUP process. It's
our belief really that we don't need to be here all we'd have to do is pull a building permit
and commence construction because it's otherwise zoned for this site however we
recognize that if we did that we'd probably face some additional opposition and so we
might as well go through these processes and try to get that opposition and concerns
resolved and proceed with the construction facility rather than pull a building permit up
front and face that opposition and a possible contention that we're trying to deal in a
backhanded fashion with the community.
Corrie: Maybe I'm hearing you wrong but what you're saying is that regardless of what
we do you think you should go ahead and be able to do that?
Howell: It's our position that we have that right, yes.
Corrie: Any further questions Council?
Bentley: I have some for staff.
Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 45
Corrie: Alright thank you.
Howell: Thank you.
Corrie: Council, questions to staff?
Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I would like to have Shari's input on this permit.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, Councilman Bentley, I take exception to what the
Albertson's representative has stated, an automobile service station and a service
station both would require a conditional use permit in that zone. I don't believe it would
be counted as a convenience stofe and if it were a convenience store it definitely would
be a second principle building. As for the accessory use, if they want to contend that
that is an accessory use in section 11-2-410D item 1A, it says the accessory
determination shall be based upon the relationship of the building, structure or use to
the principle permitted use, specifically it must be habitually or commonly established as
reasonably incidental to the principle permitted use and located and conducted on the
same premises as the principle permitted use. I don't believe that is the case in this
instance. Also, as a requirement for an accessory use under accessory use standards,
the same section, an accessory building if not in a rear yard shall be connected with the
principle building to which it is accessory and shall be so placed as to meet all yard and
court requirements for a principle building, including height and other dimensions, so in
either case they were required to have a conditional use permit or meet the
requirements for an accessory use which would mean it had to be connected to the
existing building or detached in the rear yard. As for the number of parking spaces in
an attempt to comply with direction from Council as far as trying to work with businesses
in trying to get things permitted when I could and not run them through this process, the
number of parking spaces, I suggested that when they came in for the conditional use
permit that instead of reducing a number of the parking spaces to the compact spaces
which are virtually useless that they count the parking spaces based on the warehouse
space where they have the storage and not in strict compliance with the ordinance
which would require the one per 200 for the gross floor area so I guess as part of that
they are counting it as warehouse space, the number of spaces that they had were the
minimum for the gross floor area for the retail space and if I erred, I apologize. As far as
the notification to the property owners within 300 feet I believe the misunderstanding
came because it talked about the sectional location of the property which was in the
north east quarter of the north east quarter of that section. So if you have any other
questions -
Anderson: I have one for Gary. Sewer capacity was mentioned by one of the people
testifying tonight, is there a problem with the additional sewage with the ongoing
buildings that are going to go in on there with this kiosk going up?
1: -
Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 46
Smith: I don't believe there is a problem, I think there was a - I was trying to pull the
size of the lines from my memory but I think that a four-inch line was continued on to Mr.
Lovan's property and I believe that downstream from that to where Ten Mile Road is a
six-inch line but I'm not positive of that so if I'm right on those sizes of pipes there
shouldn't be a problem on capacity, no sir.
Anderson: Thank you.
Corrie: Any further questions? Any discussion before I close the hearing?
Lovan: Mr. Mayor I do have a question for Chief but you can close the public hearing
and he can answer it.
Corrie: Okay, at this point I will close the public hearing.
Bentley: Chief, are you familiar with the intersection in question?
Gordon: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Bentley, yes sir, I am.
Bentley: And one of the people testifying spoke of the traffic flow problem with the
median that they have placed up there.
Gordon: Yes sir, I am.
Bentley: Do you foresee stacking problems back into the Ten Mile Road with left
turners trying to come in off Cherry?
Gordon: At certain times of the day the traffic is already extremely bad, I don't foresee
anything other than it getting worse in that general area without the gas station.
Bentley: Thank you.
Corrie: Counselor, (inaudible)
Crookston: There has been substantial new testimony that should be added to the
Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law, it's still up to the Council what they want to do
with those Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law, you can make a recommendation, I
can put the new testimony in the findings, if you wish to change the decision you can do
that, it's totally up to the council.
Corrie: Okay, thank you.
(
Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 47
Bentley: I would agree there was some substantial testimony, we need some new
findings but I'm also going to say that I'm in concurrence with Councilman Rountree, I'm
really concerned about the parking, as I brought up the traffic stacking and the design
itself, I'd have a real question on if Albertson's went to 24 hours this facility would run 24
hours, if I were to approve this thing I would definitely put an hour restriction on it. I also
really wish that this would have been part of the preliminary plat when it came forth. I
think we wouldn't be sitting here having to hammer over this now but that's alii have to
say and I'm prepared to move for new findings.
Rountree: I too would agree that we need preparation of new findings based on the
testimony received tonight, substantially new testimony, though I don't disagree with the
end results of the existing findings I at this point would be opposed to this application for
reasons stated.
Corrie: Anyone else have a comment?
Rountree: Mr. Mayor, one other point, I know there was some testimony given that we
did not get the hand ins, I believe one in particular Mr. Lovan sighted a cross connection
easement or arrangement that was necessary and I would ask that the City Clerk get
that information from Mr. Lovan.
Corrie: Alright, hearing no further discussion I'll entertain a motion.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I move we instruct the City Attorney to prepare new Findings of
Fact and Conclusions of Law for the Albertson's conditional use permit for a fueling
station.
Rountree: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bentley, second by Mr. Rountree to direct the Counselor to
prepare new Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law on the request for conditional use
permit, second (inaudible) fuel island. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those
in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: All aye.
Corrie: Counselor, if you would do that.
Crookston: Yes, I will.
(
\
Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 48
ITEM #13: REQUEST TO REIMBURSE THE "DOUBLED" PORTION OF THE SEWER
AND WATER ASSESSMENT FEES BY MERIDIAN PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH -
SOUTHWEST CORNER OF USTICK AND MERIDIAN ROADS:
Corrie: Is the representative from the church here tonight?
Hoffman: Mayor and Council, my name is Paul Hoffman, 3235 N. Mountain View Drive,
Boise, Idaho. Gentlemen, first of all let me apologize to you, I do believe that had the
church understood or had been aware earlier that the City had annexed property
contiguous to our property we may have pursued annexation earlier than this, we
weren't aware of that until I had placed a call to Miss Stiles two weeks ago. The
impetus for that call was that we learned what the total impact fees were going to
amount to and the fact that they were being doubled, it came to a rather considerable
sum, about $32,500.00 and that was a hard pill to swallow. We would like to request
that the Council would consider reimbursing us the doubled portion of the fee which
amounts to $13,532.00, that's the portion that is the doubled portion of the fee, would
consider reimbursing that fee to the church in the event that we are successful with the
annexation that we would agree to pursue immediately and now that the property is
contiguous to the City we're right across the street from the park and the future water
tank improvements and it seems to us that it makes sense for that property to be a part
of the city not only from our perspective because it is the Meridian Presbyterian Church
but also because then the park stops being a peninsula or finger so to speak if my
understanding of the boundary is correct and that's basically the basis for the request.
Corrie: Questions from the Council? Mr. Rountree?
Rountree: Mr. Hoffman, you indicated that the doubling of the fees was impact fees, is
that what you meant to say or are we just talking about hook-up fees?
Hoffman: Well no -- let's see, I have the breakdown right here. You have the equivalent
residential units that comes up that is applied to water and sewer, that's one portion of
the fee, then there's a latecomers fee which we would pay in either case then there's
the water meter for the - we have two meters in this case and there are some ERU's
applied to the landscape based on how much landscaping you have so there are
basically five different components of the impact fees, I call them together impact fees.
The portion that is doubled, there are the ERU's, basically ifs the ERU.s calculation for
water which amounts to $3,500.00 and sewer which amounts to $7,900.00 and the
landscape water use which amounts to $2,112.00 and so you take the total of that
which is $13,532.00 and then double it and then add the other components. I can give
you a copy of this if you'd like.
('
{
Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 49
Rountree: No, I just wanted to make sure I understood what you were saying, impact
fees mean something different to me as opposed to water and sewer assessment and
hook-up fees.
Corrie: If you would share that with us, it would be - your figures there, it would be
better if we could -
Hoffman: I don't have another copy but I can -
Corrie: We can get a copy made.
Hoffman: I've made some notes out to the side but I went over this with Cheryl in Public
Works -
Corrie: Okay can we get a copy of that and then we'll give it back to you.
Hoffman: I know, I realize the request may be unusual and I hope you understand our
incentive, I stood before you a year and a half ago and we talked about annexation.
Corrie: Have you started any construction at all or is it going to be started when?
Hoffman: No but we're - well actually we have to wait - tomorrow morning I return
some civil engineering documents to public works, we changed some things based on
the red lines, once they're done and give me the approval I'm ready to go because Ada
County has told me that they're complete with their portion of the review, we would like
to start in two weeks in answer to your question. If it helps any, we have no plans to
build a gas station.
Rountree: It might be a real good location.
Hoffman: It might be a little confusing, obviously I made notes on there for myself.
Corrie: That's alright, we just -. Any other questions of Paul? Questions of staff?
Rountree: Gary one, are those numbers in the ballpark?
Smith: Mayor and Council, Councilman Rountree, I haven't seen the assessment
calculations on this building so I can't answer that, the copy that I have here was
prepared by Cheryl, one of my staff members, so I can only assume that the numbers
that she has written on the calculation sheet are correct, we talked - I was just
researching the minutes briefly in my file - we talked about a double connection fee
back in October of 1996, I don't know whether Mr. Hoffman was in attendance at that
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Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 50
Council meeting or not but it's always been the policy of the City and because the
ordinance requires it it's not a policy, it's an ordinance requirement. Only the
assessment fees are doubled.
Rountree: Right, not the hook, not the latecomers fee-
Smith: Correct. The use fees are not a double fee, they are standard as though the
property was within the city limits so -
Hoffman: I was there, I didn't understand it at that time.
Smith: Okay, so it was just the number then, the dollar value?
Hoffman: Well and the fact that now we're contiguous, it changed the equation
(inaudible)
Smith: Did I answer your question Councilman Rountree?
Rountree: Yes, I had another question in terms of - refresh my memory what we've
historically in situations where, or do we have any precedence where annexation has
occurred after the assessment of the double fees have we historically returned those
fees?
Smith: Yes sir, you have made decisions before on that basis.
Rountree: That's what I thought, I just wanted to make sure. I had a question for Shari.
In my recollection on the annexation of the - or on the park site was that that would not
necessarily -spawn new annexations going forth from that site beings that we were
adjacent to our incorporated area but not necessarily contiguous with it. I think we
discussed that in that process and I'm not sure that even with the fact that the park site
has been annexed into the city that there still would be contiguous line with this existing
city for the site that they're questioning but that's obviously something we're going to
have to deal with but I don't think it's as cut and dried as is that just across - because
it's across the street ifs not part of the city.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Rountree, because the property across the street is now
in the city and they are contiguous they are eligible to apply for annexation. I think part
of the testimony that was given as part of that annexation there was some concern on
the part of people on Meridian Road that because of that annexation they would be
automatically pulled into the city against their will and since they would be requesting it I
- there's nothing to prevent them from doing that.
Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 51
Rountree: That answers my question.
Corrie: Any other questions? And you are going to ask for the annexation is that
correct?
Hoffman: Oh absolutely, yes that would be - we would do that immediately.
Rountree: Do we need a decision or not really a decision but I guess maybe some
clarification to Mr. Hoffman upon completion of the annexation then he could request
reimbursement for half of the fees.
Hoffman: Okay, if I heard correctly then there has been precedence for that?
Rountree: That's correct.
Hoffman: Okay so we're not getting any written guarantees basically but -
Corrie: We have to annex it first before we can do that, that's the procedure so once we
get the annexation I don't think the council has any objections to doing that, it's just a
matter of protocol to follow.
Hoffman: I understand. Very good. Alright, thank you.
Anderson: Mr. Mayor, I would make a motion that we refund half of their water and
sewer hook-up fees contingent upon them being annexed into the city.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Anderson second by Mr. Bird that we return half the fees
once they are in to the city limits of Meridian. Any further discussion? All those in favor
of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: All aye.
Corrie: So you just make your annexation and you'll be alright then.
ITEM #14: REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION BY RUDY GONZALES REGARDING
STREET DANCES:
Corrie: Mr. Gonzales?
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Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 52
Gonzales: My name is Rudy Gonzales, I live at 104 W. Cherry Lane here in Meridian. I
would have bought tickets for tonight, it was quite interesting. My situation may already
be resolved, I'm here mostly about the street dance that comes up during Dairy Days
sponsored by Remax and Bill and Lynn's, apparently both of them have moved, I guess
there hasn't been any discussion about them doing it again this year, I certainly hope
they don't, myself and a number of the neighbors have just been literally driven out of
our homes with this. I don't know - is there anything on the books, has it even been
approached this year? There isn't a lot of sense in beating a sleeping dog to death other
than -- we've heard a lot of reference to boom boxes tonight and the extra noise by a
service station that would bring in and this incessant pounding, thumping is what my
home was like, rattled the windows, I did call the police for several years and I had
police officers sit in my home the distance that we're sitting apart here and we had to
literally scream at each other to be able to be heard. Hopefully that won't be done
anymore, I would hate to see it go the same way as Eagle's street dance. I understand
to contain theirs and their underage drinking and the drunks wandering the streets that
they are now passing a situation where the dancing and the drinking will be only in
designated beer halls so I guess if they aren't there I would be really very happy about
it. It is a real inconsideration should it come up in the future to the neighbors although
they were in a commercial district there in a shopping center the complaints came as far
north as the subdivision on the far end of our acreage and for several blocks around
and we just had to endure it so I would just really urge the Council, Mayor Corrie, to
really look at this very seriously and say would I want to live inside a boom box until
12:00 midnight until this band finally shuts down. As an entertainer myself I find that not
everybody likes all types of music and if they want to have this type of thing there are
other facilities other than bordering a neighborhood and I think that's what went on
tonight with the Albertson's gas station issue, there's other place to put it than in a
residential area where it would be a discomfort so - Mayor Corrie, Council members, I
don't think you have any questions for me do you?
Bentley: I have one. If they don't come forth, would you want to host one?
Gonzales: No, but I will build a gas station. Thank you very much.
ITEM #15: DISCUSSION OF POSSIBLE ORDINANCE CHANGE WITH CROSS
CONNECTION AND BACKFLOW DEVICES:
Corrie: I assume that's Gary's.
Anderson: Mr. Mayor, can I ask a quick question? Gary is this going to take any time
because I know we've got a couple other people here that are probably going to speak
on something, maybe it's something we need to wait on until later in the program?
(
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Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 53
Smith: It showed up on the agenda and I'm not sure - ifs something that we talked
about in one of our strategic planning meetings at least a couple months ago and ifs
basically a change in the ordinance that Superintendent Stuart passed out these
pamphlets on the proposed changes and that was what the discussion tonight was
going to be about.
Anderson: I guess from my standpoint Gary, could you maybe have Bruce or whoever
is submitting this maybe come to one of our strategic planning me~tings and explain to
us what it is and why they want to do it so we could be better informed about it I guess.
Smith: Sure, you bet.
Corrie: Okay with that in mind I will go to item #16 then.
ITEM #16: WATE RlS EWERff RASH DELINQUENCIES:
Corrie: This is to inform you in writing if you choose to to have the right to a
predetermination hearing at 7:30 p.m. Tuesday, June 2nd before the Mayor and the City
Council to appear in person to be judged on the facts and defend the claims made by
the City that your water/sewer/trash bill is delinquent, you also may retain counsel, this
service will be discontinued on June 10, 1998 unless payment is received in full. Is
there anyone present who wishes to contest their water/sewer/trash delinquency?
Hearing no response, they are hereby informed that they can appeal to have the
decision of the City reviewed by the Fourth District Court pursuant to Idaho Code. Even
though they appealed their water will be shut off, the amount of the turn-off list is
$30,965.12. I'll entertain a motion to approve the delinquency list and turn-off.
Bird: Mr. Mayor, I make a motion that we approve the delinquency list turn-off.
Rountree: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bird, second by Mr. Rountree to approve the delinquency
and turn-off schedule for 4-15-98, any further discussion? All those in favor of the
motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: All aye.
ITEM #17: APPROVE BILLS:
Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I move that we approve the paying of the bill.
Rountree: Second.
Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 54
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bentley second by Mr. Rountree the approval of payment
of the bills. Any further discussion? All those in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: All aye.
ITEM #18: DEPARTMENT REPORTS:
A. WILL BERG:
1. FRIENDSHIP CELEBRATION AGREEMENT:
Berg: I'm right on the front, usually 11m last, sorry about that. In your packets you have
a letter from Friendship Celebration which they are doing a follow up of the request from
the Council on their hook-up to water. I want to say itls kind of unusual for a group like
that to get right back to us with this kind of agreement, theylve presented it, theylve
signed it, they documented the motion and the direction that the Council gave them and
so I think according to Wayne Crookstonls comments that we as a Council need to
approve it or at least acknowledge the direction that they -
Crookston: Mr. Mayor, I think that the City could accept this as an agreement but I
would rather see an agreement prepared that's signed by Friendship Celebration and by
the Mayor and the City Clerk.
Corrie: We could write that up and have them re-sign.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I think this ties into the earlier discussion we had with the use of
United Water and I think we need to tie them all together and decide if this is the
direction welre going to go and what safeguards welre going to have for the City on this.
Bird: Mr. Mayor, I think with this motion right here that was approved I think it's already
told us the direction welre going to go we just got to make sure we get some airtight
agreements and I concur with Wayne that I think we need to have an agreement drawn
up with the Mayor signing and the Clerk attesting and having these gentlemen sign it
also.
Anderson: Mr. Mayor, I think that the thing that separates this one from the other ones
is welve already approved this, in fact I made the motion so I donlt know whether I
opened the floodgate or what have you but we need to make a decision on the others
but to me this onels already a done deal and we need to follow through with our
commitment welve already made to these folks so-
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Meridian City Council
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Page 55
Bird: I agree with you Ron but I think you also set a precedence that (inaudible) - you
know, but I think we need airtight agreements with like your motion says with the
stipulations and I think it has to be done through legal, I don't consider this a legal paper
because there's no place for our Mayor to sign or the Clerk to attest.
Anderson: I would agree with that and I guess from my standpoint I would say with this
one we need to do it on an individual basis and then we need to consider what we're
going to do with all the rest of them and then if we're going to make a blanket deal go
from there but this one we need to make that written document that you're talking about.
Bird: I agree a hundred percent with you. This is a done deal.
Corrie: It's got to be done on a different form.
Bird: Mr. Mayor, I make a motion that we accept this agreement with a condition that
our legal department writes up a new agreement for the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to
attest and also have the Friendship Celebration three people sign on the same page.
Anderson: I'll second it.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bird, second by Mr. Anderson that we accept the
agreement and that a new agreement be added to include the Mayor's signature and
the City Clerk's. Discussion, I believe Counselor had a question?
Crookston: Mr. Mayor and Council, I believe that Mr. Anderson's motion was to-
because I think I commented on that - that we need to have an agreement, I think that's
what the wording was of the approval to do this.
Bird: Isn't that what we just did Wayne?
Crookston: That's what you have done now, yes, but in the original motion I think that
there was supposed to be an agreement and they were directed to draft the agreement
but that's up to the Council as to whether or not they want me to do that - I can look
back in my notes and -
Anderson: I don't recall the original motion that well.
Bird: I think you might be right but I think we need to have - if you wouldn't mind, I think
it would be best to have you draft (inaudible) if that would be okay with the church and I
don't know why it wouldn't be.
Crookston: I have no problem with doing it I just wanted to -
Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 56
Corrie: It has to contain the same wording that they have.
Bird: You bet, just get in on legal document and get it taken care of. Proper signatures,
yeah.
Corrie: Okay, any further discussion? All those in favor of the motion say aye.
Opposed no.
MOTION CARRIED: All aye.
2. BEER & WINE LICENSE FOR KBC DEVELOPMENT
(ULTRATOUCH CAR WASH)
Bentley: Chief, have you seen this?
Gordon: Mr. Mayor and Councilman Bentley, I received this application late this
afternoon and I have not been able to proceed with it yet.
Bentley: In light of this, the Chief hasn't had a chance to reprove it, I donlt really feel we
can take action on this tonight.
Corrie: Mr. Berg, do you want to comment to that?
Berg: Yes, 11m sorry that Chief Gordon hadn't received it yet, it was in his box Friday
with a special note asking him to review this. This is a beer and wine license for Ultra
Touch Car Wash which they've received the state and the county's previous to turning
in this application. They are looking at trying to get their parking lot asphalted in and
opening possibly somewhere in the 12th area, not guaranteeing it's the 12th but that time
frame which our next council meeting was going to be the 16th so I was trying to help
them along with the procedure, mostly background checks and you can ask the Chief
about this but most of the background checks have been completed by the state before
we get the application, that's part of our requirement but it does require the need for our
City to approve it and for our Police Chief to review it.
Corrie: Okay, the Chief hasn't had it to review, I guess they can open without a - have
a little space for their beer and wine -
Anderson: What about a motion contingent upon the Chiefs approval that it-
Corrie: If you want to do it you can -
Anderson: Is that legal?
Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 57
Bird: Yeah, that's legal.
Corrie: Once he approves it, it is.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, I was a little concerned about this because they did go
through a conditional use permit, they indicated that a convenience store was no part of
their operation, that they would have some soft drinks and snacks available for their
customers -- I'm a little concerned about having the beer and wine sales there when it
wasn't ever represented as part of their application that that would be part of it. They
said there would be some ancillary sales of perhaps oil, automobile related items but
that it was in no way intended to be a convenience store, I just - something to think
about.
Corrie: That was presented to the Council that way?
Rountree: Yeah, I remember that, I remember them talking about it was not a
convenience store operation.
Corrie: Now they're making it a convenience store and selling beer and wine.
Bird: When did they come Shari? When did they get their conditional use?
Rountree: Last winter.
Bird: Last November or December wasn't it?
Stiles: They came before City Council, it was July 1, 1997.
Rountree: But they weren't done until -
Stiles: That was when they came before City Council.
Bird: And they stated that they didn't want a convenience -I have to agree with you
Shari, I kind of question having that parking lot and everything around there, you know
you're setting up a convenience stofe if you start selling beer and wine and stuff like
that. 1 don't know if they got enough parking lot for all that.
Stiles: I had just made the comment during the public hearings that if they did intend to
run a convenience store that they should be required to go back through the process to
get approval for a convenience store as that does require a conditional use in that zone.
Their conditional use permit was granted for the car wash with fuel facilities.
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Meridian City Council
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Page 58
Bird: That's what I question Shari is if you're selling out retail and beer and wine or
anything out of there is you know any kind of convenience stofe I don't - do they have
the parking there? I mean to me the front there is the only little - right in their entryway
is the only place because you go through the one side and you got the fueling station on
the other side. I question how you know if they're parking -
Rountree: Yeah but don't you get thirsty while you're sitting there watching your car get
scrubbed?
Bird: I never get it scrubbed.
Bentley: Stick your head in the car wash and get a drink.
Bird: I have no problems myself approving it unless the council- unless they
specifically when they got this conditional use permit said they were not going to be a
convenience store.
Stiles: The applicant stated that they had no intent to have a convenience stofe there.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I would have to agree because I recall it now that it's been brought
up that that was the case and I don't see how we can approve this under these
conditions.
Corrie: Any other comments?
Bird: I concur with Glenn but I think that we ought to give them the opportunity to come
back in here and come before us and see what the changes are, I don't think they plan
on dispensing it on the premises do they?
Corrie: Selling it.
Bird: They're selling it but they're not dispensing it.
Rountree: Right.
Corrie: But the thing is that they came to us or you or whoever it was and they ~aid they
weren't going to do it and now they are, what is going to stop that from setting ~.
precedence and somebody else doing it? ~
Bird: Mayor, I agree with you a hundred percent but I think they ought to have the
opportunity to come in and talk to us.
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Meridian City Council
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Page 59
Corrie: I think they should and go for a conditional use permit at that time. (Inaudible)
Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I would - I don't know do we want to table it or just turn around and
deny it and tell them they have to go through the use process, which would be the best
way to go?
Rountree: I think we ought to just table it until they resolve the issue with the City as
whether they're going to be a convenience store or not.
Bentley: Mr. Mayor, I would move that we table the issue for beer and wine licenses for
KBC Development, Ultra Touch Car Wash, until they resolve the issues of the
conditional use with the City.
Corrie: Okay, July the 7th?
Bentley: Sounds good.
Corrie: Is that alright with you?
Rountree: Yes.
Corrie: Okay July the 7th, alright. Second the motion?
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Bentley, second by Mr. Bird to table till July the 7th and get
that straightened out whether it's a convenience store or not. Any further discussion?
All those in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: All aye.
Bentley: Shari, could you see to it that welve got copies of those minutes in case we
don't have them, I mean a couple of these guys won't have those copies, you know so
we got to review those or just the highlighted page that it affects.
Stiles: Sure.
Bentley: Thank you.
B. GARY SMITH:
Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 60
1. BID AWARD FOR PARKING LOT IMPROVEMENTS @ PINE
STREET AND NW 8TH.
Corrie: Okay, Mr. Smith?
Smith: Thank you Mr. Mayor and Council members, do you have a copy - I hope you
have a copy of the bid abstract on the bid opening for - okay, thank you. On May 19th
we opened bids for construction of parking lot improvements at the Water Department in
front of the north west 8th Street Park and behind the Water Department's office in their
yard area. That project was to resolve a - well it was kind of three pronged I guess -
take care of some parking problems at the Water Department in the back and take care
of a drainage problem that was coming into the park area from public streets and to
provide better parking facilities for the use of the park. Also included in that bid was the
improvement of the parking lot on East Pine which is just east of Stan's Mower Repair
Shop that our Italian restaurant uses for parking facilities. The bids were very
competitive, we received six bids, Capital Paving Company is the low bidder at
$141,096.84 of which the breakout on the two projects Pine Street parking lot is
$33,308.30, Eighth Street parking $107,788.54. All the bids were tabulated, arithmetic
was checked and Capital Paving did submit the low bid for the projects.
Corrie: Gary, what is that Pine Street property worth? What's the possible cost if
somebody was to buy that, we own it but they wanted to buy it.
Smith: I don't know Mayor.
Corrie: Was it in the - any possibility of the forty to fifty thousand dollar range?
Smith: I don't have any idea, I don't know.
Berg: Mr. Mayor, I believe that was purchased with some grant money and the sale-I
think we looked at that before, we couldn't sell it, we could maybe trade it for
comparable use downtown parking lot, 11m not sure, weld have to look that up, Shari do
you remember seeing anything on that parking lot because of the grant money there's
some stipulations put on that.
Stiles: I'm sorry, you were talking about the -
Smith: Pine Street parking lot down there across from Paisano's, east of -
Stiles: Oh, I thought you were talking about the one down at the treatment - or the
Water Department.
Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 61
Smith: No, east of Stan's Mowers there's a 60x120-foot lot that was purchased with
grant funds from that CBDG grant, it was I think considered blight or something like that.
Stiles: Slum and blight.
Smith: Slum and blight, yeah.
Corrie: Can that be traded for other - (end of tape)
Stiles: - relocation of the individuals that were living there at that time. I can check with
the Department of Commerce but it's kind of difficult to do that.
Corrie: What I was thinking is the possibility - this is a really far out thing but the
Thierhouse property next to that Generations Plaza if she would trade that piece of
property for the other piece of property, give us that whole thing on that side, I don't
even know whether it's even legal to do it but - or if we can even possibly - we would
even think about it but something went through my mind this morning that there's a
possibility that maybe she wants to trade and we'd have that other property next to
Generations Plaza because she's willing to sell it at a price, I don't know whether the
two would even come close but-
Bird: She'd probably trade it at a price too.
Rountree: At the rough estimate we got when we did the look see on square footage
cost of commercial property with the fire station we're around $7.00 a square foot which
would put this piece of property right at $50,000.00.
Corrie: That would be equivalent to that piece of property, she wants fifty for the other
one.
Rountree: She wanted fifty for the other one, I'm sure in terms of buildability and
usability this lot's got to be much more usable. I mean you could actually put something
on it.
Bentley: H'aven't we already kind of let the community know that we were building a
parking lot, I mean a lot of business people are kind of expecting that.
Rountree: Well that was what the grant was for (inaudible) downtown parking which is
sorely needed.
Corrie: I don't know whether we're even in the ballpark to do something like that but it
was just throwing out the possibility, if we can, the legal department says we can or we
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Meridian City Council
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Page 62
canlt but it would sure be a way of getting that piece of property next to Generations
Plaza than have a used car parking lot there.
Bentley: Itls not a bad idea.
Corrie: I donlt know how this does affect your -
Smith: 11m not sure either Mayor, lid have to talk to the low bidder I guess and I donlt
know whether we could - I just don't know how to answer that question, 11m not sure
what we can do if we take that out of the bid -- hels still low on the others -
Rountree: Gary don't you have 28 days to award?
Smith: Itls at least that much Charlie, it might be a little more than that.
Rountree: Yeah, so I would think you could resolve that issue in terms of whether you
could trade or not at that time and maybe look at approving the bids based on further
investigation of the possibility of trading that property and if that's the case then not
pursuing the paving of the Pine Street lot.
Bird: Okay your bids probably called for and to hold it for 45 days?
Smith: It's either 30 or 60 and I canlt recall exactly.
Bird: Thirty or sixty? I think personally, let's go through it, this grant, I bet by the time
you go back and try to get the money back it's like every other matching grant or
anything welve done around here if II cost you more than fifty thousand dollars to get out
of the stupid thing. Lars get the parking lot like we've promised the people to do, this
has been the thing in this city since we got that property over there, welre going to have
a nice parking lot, we need a parking lot then if we can get this other thafs fine, I just
you know -let's go, letls proceed with something we've got for once.
Anderson: Mr. Mayor, I agree with Keith I mean welre changing direction mid stream
here and that does nothing but make us look bad. Welve awarded bids or welre getting
ready to award bids here if we want the piece of property next to Generations let's find
other funding sources to do that, we don't have the money to develop it right now, welre
committed to this parking lot, we've made statements and pledges to the community,
let's push forward and not change our minds mid stream.
Corrie: Just a thought, you guys are making the call.
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Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 63
Bird: Mr. Mayor, I make a motion that we accept the Capital Paving Company's bid for
paving the two parking lots for $141,096.84.
Anderson: I'll second it.
Corrie: Okay motion's made by Mr. Bird, second by Mr. Anderson that we accept
Capital Paving Company to pave 8th Street and Pine Street lots at $141,096.84.
Discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor of the motion say aye. No?
MOTION CARRIED: All aye.
Smith: Thank you Mr. Mayor and Council. We do have to transfer some money -line
item transfers in order to put the expenditure funds in the right line items for the parking
lot improvements at the Water Department. We're covered okay at Pine Street. I had
fifty thousand dollars in there as a line item for that improvement. I'd like to pass this
out if it's okay, to look at for this line item transfer.
Bird: Can I ask you a question Gary before we go any farther? Is that the title and
everything for that - or deed for that property over there now is that all squared away
between us and Boise State at the Water Plant?
Smith: No sir, I don't believe it is.
Bird: What's the. hold up?
Crookston: Getting a deed from Amanda Horton.
Bird: And who's she with?
Crookston: She's the Boise State's attorney.
Bird: Go ahead Gary.
Smith: Thank you. The number one item up there is the transfer of funds from Bruce's
water distribution account 434.50-002 of capital outlay account 434.90-00 in the amount
of $16,700.00. This is to - for one reason or another didn't have any funds budgeted for
the capital outlay account and I'm not quite sure what happened there but he needs to
buy four replacement desks and some classroom chairs and two computers for two of
his employees and then recently his furnaces - there are four furnace units, furnace air
conditioner units that supply that building, one of them was replaced and the other three
have I think - one week ago -- gas - he was gone on a Friday and gas filled his office
from a leaking gas valve up there and the other employees noticed it and they managed
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Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 64
to get out of the building and get the thing aired out but it was a pretty serious situation
then when they got to looking at the units they realized that the - the heating and air
conditioning guys looked at them and the fire box areas were aU in bad condition and
the other three so he wants to transfer that amount of money to replace those gas fired
furnace air conditioner units and purchased those other items inside the building, the
desks, the chairs and the computers, the two computers. The second part of that
request has to do with the 8th Street parking lot improvement. As I mentioned earlier
part of that project was to correct a drainage problem that comes from the public streets
and to that extent he Highway District based on the amount of area that is contributing
to the drainage from the public streets and the amount of area that we have under out
direct control it worked out that the Highway District would reimburse us $12,400.00,
that leaves a difference that's showing of $95,388.00 and the account balance in that lot
improvement is $21,840.00 so we're requesting to transfer the difference from the
434.50-62 which is special projects account which was contractor help for other water
line improvement projects to this account in the amount of $74,000.00. Do you have
any questions that I can answer on those transfers?
Corrie: Council, what would you like to do here?
Rountree: Mr. Mayor, I move that we accept the line item budget adjustment as
presented in Mr. Stuart's letter June 2, 1998.
Bentley: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Rountree, second by Mr. Bentley that we approve the two
line item adjustments presented by Mr. Bruce Stuart. Any further discussion? All those
in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: All aye.
Smith: Thank you Mayor and Council.
2. SEWER SERVICE TO COUNTY AREAS NE AREA OF IMPACT.
Smith: Shari has an item called Vienna Woods Subdivision that she wants to talk to you
about so I won't discuss that very much but - I'll just touch on - I think when we talked
about this north east area of impact and the discussions that we had with the county
commissioners concerning this property that the Peterson brothers owned, the eighty
acres which is now known as Vienna Woods Subdivision. We were led to believe as I
remember.and in talking with the Mayor I think he remembers the same thing that this
property would not develop for probably five years and we're now looking at a
preliminary plat that's been submitted to the county and that statement was made I think
Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 65
it was November of last year, something like that. Coincidentally, with the development
of the plans for that subdivision I've received two phone calls from property owners on
Locust Grove between McMillan and Chinden. One gentleman has 30 acres at the
north east corner of McMillan and Locust and he has 40 acres at the south east corner
of Chinden and Locust, so he has seventy acres, another gentleman has 44 acres at
the north west corner of McMillan and Locust and they both asked me the same
question, sewer service and I had really nothing to tell them concerning the pressure
line that's being proposed to serve Vienna Woods 80 acres. Along with that I have had
Brad prepare a map that I want to leave a copy with each one of you showing the three
service areas out there starting at the south slew and going north to our north boundary
line and I'd like you to take a look at those or at this map and I would request a policy
decision from Mayor and Council as to where you want to go for service and I guess I
would finish my statement on that that in my mind I feel as though an orderly
development process needs to be followed as we move out away from the metropolitan
area that we presently have, the decision of course is yours as to how you want to
proceed. I talked to Wayne a little bit about the legalities of the city serving areas,
subdivision area that are not within the corporate limits of the City of Meridian. The
paragraph that's existing in the sewer use ordinance for example is not very clear in my
mind that talks about individual properties and in the past we've looked at, I say we the
City of Meridian, has looked at that individual properties as being a house, a residence,
a small business, that sort of thing. Now we're talking about 80 aces of subdivision, 240
lots or 260 lots whatever the number is, another 40 acres here, 70 acres and the
numbers are starting to get big and I don't know whether our ordinance - and I just
talked to Wayne over the phone about it so I don't know whether the ordinance is as
absolute in one direction or the another as to what individual properties could be
construed to mean but it's a question I can't answer when the phone rings with
somebody asking that question, I don't know what to tell them. We have just last Friday
we received the information back from the engineer study on the hundred acres that
Hunemiller was asking about service pumping into the south slew, I haven't had a
chance to analyze the information that we did get back but Brad tells me that the bottom
line is it impacts the sewer system downstream from where the south slew ties into Five
Mile Trunk and it impacts it in addition to what the system was already impacted by the
previous facility plan study that was made, it jumps the pipe size up again, we're going
to have to parallel pipe some of that Five Mile Trunk capacity wise. So getting service
outside of our service areas pumping into our areas that are gravity serviced now, it's a
really tough question and I think I've mentioned this before when we've had these
conversations that it's really hard to project where we're going to be in terms of
development on the gravity system. For an example, the south east corner of Fairview
and Eagle Road, that's been sitting there in crop land for years and just two weeks ago
the developer for it who is the same developer as the Fred Meyer site, Dakota
Development, came in and talked to me about sewer and water service to that corner
because they were starting to market that thing and the guy says it's incredible how fast
(
Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 66
it's going and so we're going to see right there - I think there's about 80 acres I believe
to be developed in that "L" shape and that's going into the Pine Street Trunk which
dumps into the Five Mile Interceptor which flows on to the north and west and it
continues to compound the capacity problems in that direction but with that
development, with the desire of City Council and Mayor for Van Auker's sewer
extension to proceed ahead with in talking to Jeff Hull at St. Luke's today in fact, we
were talking about water out there, they're talking phase three on the hospital right now
and so all of that along with what could happen on the south side of the freeway at
Eagle and Overland, once that sewer line crosses under the interstate, the high school
site, the old de Ward property I believe it was, that's coming within what a couple years
probably?
Rountree: They said five years two years ago.
Smith: So you know that sewer line's going to have to cross in order for that high school
to be built and when that happens those corners are just going to - I think it's going to
be a really hot spot so with all of these things and that's what this analysis included that
we did for the parcel that Hunemiller was proposing it included the development of all of
those areas and it impacts us in the gravity drainage sewer system and now we've got
the request from the north east part wanting to pump this way and I guess in my mind
maybe what we need to do is to establish some time lines and tell the development
community this is what we're planning on doing. I don't know how else to approach it
because we've got to establish something to base our expenditures on, something to
base our planning on, we can't just be going every which way. There's an old saying
about the guy that jumped onto his ass and rode of in all directions and I don't want to
do that because we can't afford that and I don't think it would be doing the best service
to our community but maybe the answer is to say to the Peterson's or to anybody else
out there look this is what we're going to do, this is the time line, we're going to develop
these sewer trunks within these times and that's when this property is going to be
available for development, I don't know, it's just something to think about but I want to
hand out this map to you so that you can look at it and get an idea of the drainage
areas, get an idea of the cost that we're estimating that we're going to have to incur.
Bird: Charlie, I think we need to have - excuse me Mayor.
Corrie: I think Mr. Bentley had a question.
Bentley: My statement was going to be this is something that we've discussed before,
we've got to get time lines together, maybe we need to dedicate a meeting to sit down
and review this, go over the plans and get some direction together for these guys so
they know what we want but I've spoken several times on the issue of Fairview and
Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 67
Eagle, that we got to get that thing on line or I think welre going to lose it because it's
quite obvious Boise would love to have half that intersection. Thank you.
Bird: Also, we had a -- as I understand, being new, as I'm looking back through some
things, I understand we had ten years in our impact area getting our facilities out there
and we're down into our - after this fiscal year Weill be into our seventh year am I not
right?
(Inaudible)
Smith: I donlt think the impact area was finalized - it was last year I believe.
Bird: It was the fiscal year of - last fall was it? I thought it was the fall of 1996. Anyway
something that I've asked Gary to do this and I think we need to sit down in a planning
session, Charlie if itls okay, devote most of the time to it and the Council and Mayor put
in their input of how we want to go. Being new here guys I don't have the slightest idea
how we finance it but I'm sure there's a way, there's bonds and stuff that we do I
understand on that but I think it's something that we need to get going on, you know if
we can't produce it Boise and United Water will for them so if we don't want to progress
then I guess we'd better just start putting fences around our city limits and stay where
we're at but I think we need to give our staff, Gary and his staff, the direction so that
they can be answering these questions to the developers and kind of come up with a
time line that we can live with and then proceed to meet that time line.
Rountree: I agree.
Smith: I have included some about half a million dollars in design fees for this fiscal
year to get started on one of these trunks and I donlt know which one to jump to but
there will be money in there. I'm hesitant to say that we could get anything built this
year but we could certainly get the design done and the right of ways obtained and be
ready to go under construction for next year so I'm thinking that any of these lines and
extensions of these interceptors would be a two year project from now.
Bird: Gary would that include that mile and a quarter of the extension that we felt would
take up the corner of Eagle and Ustick, remember we talked about extending that on
over to the impact area over there by Cloverdale.
Smith: To catch the Schmitzger parcel at Ustick and Eagle?
Bird: Yeah, the Schmitzger parcel, and that being a mile and a quarter or so most of the
right of ways is pretty well picked up there isn't it? Isn't that planned that way?
Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 68
Smith: It's not picked up yet but -
Bird: We're already what a quarter mile from the intersection now that we've went
through Ted and Wertz property?
Smith: Chamberlain Estates and through that Packard Subdivision, so we're about a
half a mile plus a little bit to get to Eagle and then another three quarters to get to our
boundary to the east. I think that's shown at the bottom of your plan there.
Bird: Then we pick up that corner right, that south east comer Gary?
Smith: Yes.
Bird: That's something that they want to get right on as I understood when the Mayor
and Charlie and I met with them that they're proceeding and if we canlt they'll find a
way.
Smith: The other thing that's a possibility of happening would be the north east and the
north west corner of that Eagle and Fairview intersection too, that's owned by somebody
in I guess Seattle that has a lot of money and probably doesn't care what happens to it
as far as development timing goes but maybe that's not the case, maybe once they see
the shopping center develop at the south east corner that might give them some
incentive to do something there too and so there's a fair amount of property that would
be served by the extension of that south slew.
Corrie: I donlt know what that property's under for us legally, countyls talking to them
and everybody else down there but I donlt know where they are.
Bentley: They'll need a sewer no matter whols talking to them.
Corrie: Well yeah, I understand that but 1-
Bird: If we don't get some kind of a plan out the thing I'm scared of is that we're going to
be caught behind the eight ball and start losing a lot of our impact area, we've already
you know - if that from Cloverdale to Eagle Road mess out there a few years ago didn't
teach the City of Meridian something they - we better stay on top of our stuff.
Bentley: Well, I'll quote Gary, I think weill be in a crap shoot if we donlt get something
done.
Bird: One hundred percent right Glenn.
Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 69
Corrie: I believe the developers also have some plans out there too and they've got to
know this.
Bentley: I think we need to pick a date and sit down and have staff do a little
presentation on this stuff and then go ahead and give them some direction on getting
the plans rolling -
Rountree: Get a infrastructure plan prepared.
Bird: That's what we need.
Rountree: We'll bless that and that will be our direction.
Bentley: And that will also show the county and the rest of the people that we've made
good faith when we went after that area of impact too.
Smith: Right, that's absolutely right. I haven't talked to everybody that owns property
along the no-name trunk alignment but I've talked to a lot of them and there's a lot of
interest in there starting at the plant at Ten Mile Road with the old Young's dairy, therels
about 400 acres there that had been in several years ago talking to us about developing
that and marching on to the east and whether there's 1 00 acres or 40 acres or 80 acres
but therelve been a lot of phone calls over the years about developments so I think that
north of Ustick from the plant east to Locust Grove there would be a lot of interest out
there, residential. Thank you.
Bird: I agree with you. Gary, thank you very much for doing this for us, this is
something welve been needing.
Smith: And if you'd like to set up a time, whether you want to do it at a special
workshop or at the next planning session just let me know - (Inaudible)
Bentley: We need to get it planned out pretty quick because we got started in a budget
fiasco.
Bird: Yeah, I think the sooner the better because we need some direction for Gary's
budget. He's got some stuff in there but maybe we can get some more going.
Smith: I've got that much money in there for design.
Corrie: Before you leave you wanted to touch on this Van Auker sewer thing?
(Inaudible) and what he needs from the Council.
Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 70
Smith: Yes, I haven't received anything or heard anything from Fred Mack, I don't know
whether Wayne has or -
Crookston: I have not.
Smith: He was going to get us a list of pro~dures as to what we were supposed to do
and in order for us to proceed with that process we have to follow these steps and one
of the things that I wasn't aware of that he made very clear to us at that meeting was
that from this point forward this is a city project and when he said that he said it with the
understanding that there's some dollars involved in this thing. He looks at a permanent
easement in the same manner as a taking for a right of way. It's not usable ground to
the property owner any longer even though he could drive across it, he could put a
parking lot on it, he can't build a structure on it, he can't plant big trees on it, he's
basically lost it, anywhere from a dollar to two dollars per square foot is what it's going
to cost if we go that far and so the City will be responsible for that cost along with his
cost the City has to hire him at appraisers cost for the value of the property and so all of
these dollars are adding up but it's coming out of the City's pocket to proceed with it and
so I wanted everyone to understand that that's the case and as part of this budgeting
process those costs are going to need to be inserted into the Wastewater Department's
budget too so we've got that covered but I think one of the first things that he wanted
was an order from the Council to proceed but I don't know that he wanted us to do
anything until we got his instructions, am I remembering correctly?
Crookston: Mr. Mayor and Council, it was my understanding at that meeting that he
was going to submit a proposal to us to see if we would hire his firm to handle this then
if that's agreeable to the City then we go from there on.
Corrie: This was a memo directed to you and I and I think maybe we just ought to pass
it on to the other councilmen as well.
Bird: Wayne do you need to get back with him or Gary so that we can get this proposal
going?
Smith: Well he was supposed to submit it to us at the end of that meeting so I guess
one of us could call him.
Bird: He doesn't need any action from us does he? I would think that between you and
the Mayor and Wayne could certainly get something.
Smith: Right.
(
Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 71
Rountree: I would follow up with Fred and remind him that we need that proposal
ASAP.
Corrie: I had a meeting with the RC Willey people yesterday. They are in negotiations
with Mr. Saum and he said that the Elixir people were wanting to talk to him so we've
done something there, Mr. Saum died or I don't know what happened but they said they
wanted to get started on that project as well so they're ready to work with us so we need
to pursue this because we've got a health problem starting on this that septic systems
down there on -
Smith: They're pumping them. I think they're almost to the point of buying their own
pump truck.
Bentley: Where's Central District Health on that? Can't they pull their chain on that
since they're within a reasonable distance of the sewer require them to hook up?
Smith: Well the problem is beyond the Elixir property, it's to the east side of Eagle
Road, it's on Commercial Court and 1'm not sure what they can require Charlie as far as
the sewer being where it is or at Blue Cross, I don't know-
Anderson: They can let Boise come in.
Smith: Van Auker had a septic tank permit or approval to use septic tank from the City
of Meridian on a year to year basis which has been extended and extended and
extended because of his easement circumstances but I don't know what Central District
Health can do with it. I can talk to Tom Schmaltz and find out.
Rountree: You might, you might be able to strong arm him into doing something.
Smith: I'll do that. Thank you.
3. BUILDING PERMIT ISSUANCE FOR HOME DEPOT.
Smith: Back in February of this year the final plat for Central Valley Corporate Park No.
6 came before you for approval and part of the request during that approval process
was by the engineer for the developer to have us process the building plans while the
plat was going through it's process, process the building plans ahead of recording of the
final plat, we've done that, I just got the final plat last week and live got it laid out and
the file out and started through it today but I've got a feeling that - well live got more
than a feeling, I know that Nahas is going to request a building permit for Home Depot
ahead of the recording of the final plat. Now with your indulgence I'll read the motion
that was made by Councilman Rountree: Mr. Mayor, I would move that we authorize
Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 72
staff to review plan submittals for Home Depot in advance of recording of the final plat,
which we've done, and instruct if any advance site work is done that will be done only
after such time as minimum life safety improvements are made including pressurized
water and a minimum road base capable of supporting an emergency vehicle. The site
work part doesnlt concern me as far as the on-site sewer, the on-site water, the building
foundation excavation, I think we can proceed .with that sort of thing but I think what
they're going to ask us for is a foundation only permit that will allow them to do their
foundation, their flat slab work ahead of getting the building permit itself. Now, if we
have the water system installed such that we have fire hydrants that are active out
there, we have a road base so that fire trucks can get in there, emergency vehicles can
get in there, can we issue the foundation only permit for them without the recorded plat,
I guess that's the question and I don't know from a legal standpoint where we are, I
know where we've tried to be in the past but I'm not sure where we are in this one and
that's why it's on the agenda, I'm looking for some -
Rountree: The intent was that we not issue a building permit and have construction
activities out there that we could not provide fire and safety to them so if they go forth
with the foundation aspect permit only I don't have a big problem with that but boy as
soon as they start erecting stuff and get lots of other people, materials and equipment in
there and we can't auger a fire truck through or an ambulance through -
Smith: I think we've got the life safety issue covered, we will have that covered, I mean
they're going to have to have water, they're going to have to have good access, all
weather access, the problem is where this buildingls setting is not a lot of record, it
doesn't legally exist and they've talked to me about well what about a meets and
bounds description? Well if you're going to start doing that then you're going outside of
our subdivision ordinance that requires a lot and once they've started this subdivision
process which this is the number six phase you know welve got away from issuing one
building permit for an original parcel of ground without a plat and we've always done
that but in this case that's gone by a long time ago.
Bird: How do you issue the permit without-
Smith: Well thafs the question, we don't have an address - I mean we can address the
plat that we received and I'm sure that it's going to be recorded but legally, officially it
doesn't exist so I -
Rountree: Can a building permit be issued on a tentative address or lot description
proposed final or on the final that's in the process because we've already approved the
final plat.
Smith: We've approved it, yes.
Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 73
Rountree: It hasn't been signed off or recorded.
Smith: Right.
Bird: And you don't have any permanent lots and addresses until you do that Charlie
and I don't believe you can legally issue a building permit, you can probably issue a
foundation permit and stuff without that kind of stuff but when you get into the building
and stuff I don't think you can do it without the legal description being on the permit
because for one fact is your finance people are not going to have a true legal
description if that goes back on it, your financing might have something to say about
that I don't know, I think we ought to check with Boise, Nampa or somebody like that
and see if they do it and how they do it because I think we might be sticking our neck
out, what do you think counselor? I mean the mortgage company or the finance people
might be able to come back on the City of Meridian, that's what I'm afraid of.
Smith: I don't have any doubts that this thing's going to go ahead, I mean it's signed by
the Highway District, it's been signed by the Health District, of course the owner has
signed it, all that remains is my signature and the City Clerk's signature and the County
Engineer and they record it. They're out there building sewer and water lines now,
they've excavated for their retention ponds for their storm drainage, they've got a
crossing in - they've done this some years ago for the Eight Mile Lateral and they've
bored under that thing -
Rountree: So what's the time limit on it?
Smith: Well from the time it leaves my office is probably about four to six weeks getting
it out of the county engineer based on his work load and they can't seem to give us a
real firm time that it will take but Nahas is telling me he's being told four to six weeks.
Rountree: And what's their time line on wanting a building permit?
Bird: They're going to need it, they bid the 4th, building bid's Thursday.
Smith: Oh, does it? Okay.
Bird: So you can figure the award will be within thirty days.
(Inaudible - away from microphone)
Rountree: Well that's a condition on issuing a building permit, if it's in error then correct
the error.
Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 74
Smith: Yeah, it would have to be some kind of - maybe we need some conditions tied
to the issuing of this thing, that it's not a recorded plat.
Rountree: If we're willing to take some risk they ought to be taking some risk as well, I
mean we're trying to minimize their risk, it's not necessarily -
Smith: I guess they could proceed and build the foundation without a permit and then
we could double fee them. I don't know.
Bentley: That's what happened before.
Smith: Well, I just know I'm going to get asked and I've already been asked I just
haven't given them an answer because I didn't know what to tell them.
Anderson: Well in my mind we expedited them, we allowed them to go ahead and do
the work, they drug their feet getting that final plat approved so it's not our fault if the
project is slow so I'm not sure we need to push an issue of foundation (inaudible) getting
. the approval of their plat. I mean we've already done what we could do.
Smith: And I will get that plat out of my office tomorrow I hope to get it over to Will but -
so I mean we're not - you're right Councilman Anderson we're not holding them up, it's
been slow getting to us, the plat has been for one reason or another and like I said
earlier I don't have a problem with them out there digging water lines or sewer lines they
can dig holes for the foundations but beyond that I'm out of concern.
Rountree: Weill would suggest that if it's possible Boise has probably figured out a way
and if they don't-
Smith: I'll give them a call.
4. PROPOSED CHANGES TO SEWER USE ORDINANCE.
Smith: The last item I have is something I'd like you to look at and if you don't see a
problem with it I'd like to have City Attorney prepare some changes for the ordinance to
the sewer use ordinance section chapter five. One of the biggest issues here has to do
with the grease interceptors for the restaurants, we're having some real problems with
grease at the wastewater plant and we're having some problems enforcing some of the
restaurants in town to install grease interceptors that will work. Even in line with the
program that we started last year where we financed half of the cost of the interceptors
up to $4,000.00 each, we're still having problems with some of the folks not wanting to
do anything with it and we're having serious problems with grease at the Wastewater
Plant.
(
Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 75
(Inaudible - away from microphone)
Smith: Just ask them what kind of container they'd like it in.
Rountree: What kind of container they would like to have that in.
Anderson: I guess that's another suggestion that might help Gary too is you know the
restaurant's are probably responsible for a large portion of it but probably home owners
are responsible for a great deal of grease too and maybe a explanation on our water
bills that goes out explaining to them what kind of problems that can cause or
something in the waste treatment plant and maybe ask for voluntary you know people
not dumping the hot grease out of the frying pan down the drain.
Smith: Okay, we can certainly do that, that's a good idea, we'll do that. And we have
had lines plug up from residential use and we all stood there and scratched our heads
and thought how in the world can an eight inch diameter line be plugged up with grease
in a residential neighborhood but there it was and there was a basement in a cuI de sac
that was flooded with sewage and we were paying $4,000.00 to re-carpet the basement
and -
Anderson: I think a lot of people are just unaware, they don't think about it and don't
think it causes any problem.
Smith: You're right, that hot water desolves it enough that it goes down the drain and it
goes out in the street and their done with it. Okay, that's a good idea, I'll do that, I'll get
a little notice put together either on the bill itself or a little mailer. That's alii have but I
would like to get your input on that change to that sewer use ordinance so that we can
proceed with that.
Bird: Gary I think that's something that's a coming item that we need to get into the
ordinance I think ifs just for our own protection, that's my own personal opinion.
Smith: That's alii have unless you have some questions of me. Brad met with John
Anderson and I want to say John Prior but I'm not sure of that -
Rountree: It was John Prior.
Smith: Okay, they were on the site and met. There was to be a decision made, I'm
having a hard time remembering what I had for lunch today but you know last week this
happened, there was a discussion took place I believe as to where the fence could be
placed in relation to the clean out boxes out there with and without a license agreement.
Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 76
It's Nampa-Meridian's, correct me if ('m wrong, it's Nampa-Meridian's stance that each -
(end of tape) - has to sign the license agreement.
Crookston: That's correct Gary.
Smith: Okay. The LID did not have a hundred percent signature on property owners, it
had the required percentage but it wasn't a hundred so I guess the likelihood of that
happening is nil. Without that hundred percent signature Nampa-Meridian is willing to
let the fence encroach into their so called easement but according to Brad they would
only be able to move the fence about four feet, is that right?
Rountree: That's what I heard.
Smith: So we've got a four foot go ahead and move your fence and don't call us and we
don't want to know about it or whatever. If we move it ten feet, I believe that's the
distance and we're within two feet of the clean out boxes then Nampa-Meridian's going
to require a license agreement, that's to be signed by every property owner, that's what
I remember from my conversation with Brad.
Corrie: I think they're going to go four feet just straight down the line do it.
Smith: I don't know if John was going to meet with the property owners or do you know
Mayor?
Corrie: Was that today or tomorrow?
Smith: To talk about this?
Crookston: I don't know when John was going to meet with the property owners.
Smith: Or if he was?
Crookston: I don't know that.
Corrie: He said something in the parking lot to me but I'm like you I don't know what I
had for lunch. I think he said they were supposed to meet tomorrow but I'm not sure.
Anderson: It's been twelve hours ago.
Corrie: Well we know that.
Rountree: Don't get too sarcastic.
(
Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 77
Smith: So I guess it's close but it's still no cigar but the Irrigation District has certainly
thrown an anchor out.
Bentley: What's new?
Smith: Thank you.
Corrie: Thank you Gary. Shari?
c. SHARI STILES:
1. VIENNA WOODS SUBDIVISION.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, the first item has to do with what Gary mentioned about
the sewer service. I also have had several calls from property owners along that
corridor wondering about getting hooked up to sewer service. What I gave to you today
is the plat that is going through Ada County right now, they were going to have this at a
public hearing on June 11th, I sent them the letter attached to this plat yesterday asking
them to please table it, they indicated that they would go ahead and have the public
hearing but that they would likely continue the public hearing at least until the 25th of
June. I just wanted to let you know about it an be thinking about it, I don't know if we'll
be able to have any more discussion on the 16th -
Rountree: How do they propose to provide sewer and water for that subdivision?
Stiles: The water they're proposing through Rain Tree, I think itls called Rain Tree, it's
actually a company that is owned by Skyline Development or some partners of Skyline
Bird: -- (Inaudible) and the United Water looks like it's been taken over.
Stiles: And Gary still has the sewer issue that (inaudible)
Smith: Their proposal was to pump it to the south slew.
Bird: Thafs right.
Corrie: (Inaudible) There's also - Gary and I talked the other day, well eighteen I
believe, that we could bring water up to that subdivision which would take care of that
subdivision and we could water it.
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Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 78
Rountree: Why do we have to provide for a subdivision that doesn't even meet our
zoning ordinances?
Corrie: That's what she's trying to tell -
Stiles: If it's an R-4, they're proposing an R-4 in the county, apparently this would meet
their requirements, I have been unable to find our area of impact agreement, there was
supposed to be a mutual agreement probably back when Grant was still Mayor from a
long time ago as to the conditions of that area of impact agreement, state code does
require that if ifs in our area of impact that it meet our zoning ordinance unless there's a
mutual agreement between the two parties and I know of no such agreement at this
time. They have 77 lots they show as not meeting our minimums, they've got block
lengths that exceed, they've got cui de sac lengths that exceed, they have provided for
some larger lots adjacent to the development here and you can see by the yellow
highlight those are the below average lots or beJow our ordinance requirements, there's
also only one entrance into the subdivision and no known time frame when there would
be any other access at all but just to make you aware of it and any comments that you
have I would need to have some other kind of letter to them before the 25th, I will
mention the ordinance requirements that it lacks but I think the bigger issue is the
precedence that it will set, I don't know how much the pressurized line and the pump
station is going to cost, do you have any idea, any ballpark on that Gary?
Smith: No, I don't.
Stiles: But it's going to be significant cost and I don't know how we're going to work the
trunk line latecomer fees that should be assessed to this project, it's an issue that you
know when we went before the Ada County Commissioners the Peterson's indicated
well maybe in five years, we didn't have any idea it would be in five months.
Corrie: Shari, let me ask you a question. Is there a place on that plat if it's in our area
of impact that we as a City have to sign it?
Stiles: Yes, the City will have to sign the final plat.
Corrie: That's helpful. (Inaudible) - and there's a possibility that will be done.
Rountree: I would suggest that we have Shari prepare a draft letter indicating the areas
where this isn't consistent with our subdivision and zoning ordinance. The other issues
that we have related to pressurized irrigation systems, etcetera, bringing it to Council
prior to-the close of their hearing for review and additional comments and officially
provide a letter to the County in resp-o~~ to their hearing request.
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Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 79
Bird: Is that a motion Charlie?
Rountree: It sure can be.
Bird: I'll second it. I'd like to see it done - I'd like to get in there on the 11th because
there's no guarantee it'll hold on through the 25th is there Shari?
Stiles: Well it will just be before the Ada County Planning and Zoning Commission, you
know it'll be awhile before it actually gets to the Commissioners but I'd be more than
able to get that drafted for you if you want to look at it first or -
Rountree: Take the zing out of it.
Stiles: No barbs.
Corrie: Okay we have a motion for us made by Mr. Rountree second by Mr. Bird. Any
discussion? All those in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: All aye.
Corrie: So if you'll get that letter out to them that'll -
2. TROUTNER BUSINESS PARK CONDITIONAL USE
REQUIREMENT.
Stiles: I won't be here at the next City Council meeting, I'll be going to the Ale
conference so I guess if there's any items you need me to do before that time let me
know. The next item I have is something I've been thinking about for a long time, it was
brought more to a head when the John Barnes property was annexed without the
requirement for the conditional use permit although the intent of having conditional use
permits for all newly annexed property particularly in the orange mixed planned use
development area is good, it's also a great hindrance to the people that are trying to
market that property. I think there also needs to be some consideration given when the
property is being established, a subdivision's well under way with construction and we're
seeing some of the quality that we've seen out at Troutner Business Park. Mike is here
tonight, he is proposing a new building that would be right on Franklin Road, here's
some - let me pass these out. We do have a development agreement that requires
conditional use permit on all lots within the entire subdivision, I would like to propose
that that be amended so that only the lots that are adjacent to existing residential areas
be required to have the conditional use permit. The findings did say that this would be
developed as a planned use development, I would like to suggest tnat what they have
proposed and by way of the Council's review of their protective covenant and overall
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Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 80
design of the project and the restrictions that the developers placed on themselves far
exceeds what we've been seeing in other places. If you can look at the building, they
are proposing a - maybe Mike wants to explain the design of it more, I just really think
that it's kind of ridiculous that we would have to have a conditional use permit as long as
it meets all ordinance requirements, ifs of this quality, to hold them up for three months
to go through a conditional use permit is a shame, I would like them to be able to submit
for a building permit tomorrow on this if they so choose and to be on their way and that
we also if we have to go through a public hearing for the remaining lots or if we can just
consider that by way of their protective covenant it is a planned development and they
have met their requirements of that planned development and that only conditional use
permits be required for adjacent to the existing residential lots.
Rountree: I think ifs a grand idea, I think it's the kind of thing that we ought to consider
more often when we know we have a good neighbor and they are doing what we're
trying to get accomplished in the City, we certainly need to recognize that with some
type of reward and I think this in one way we can do it, I applaud both you and Mike in
working this out and bringing it to us, I don't know what we have to do to amend that
finding and agreement but whatever it is I agree, we ought to get it done.
Bird: I agree with you Shari. I agree with what Charlie says, I think that this is
something that we really need to take a hard look at if we want to encourage the nice
developments like that is and stuff coming through and the only way we're going to do
that is if we're helpful to the developers, builders and like you say they can walk in one
day and start their building permit instead of having to go through a three months wait
and sixteen public hearings that we all get to hear the same story six times so I think
this is great so let's see what we have to do to change our - whatever we have to do to
change it.
Corrie: And is it simply by motion or (inaudible) - Wayne?
Crookston: Mr. Mayor and Council, I don't believe that this is a wise decision, I don't
have any problem with what they're doing but I think that we're changing basically our
whole ordinance that requires the conditional use permits in these types of
developments and if we do it in this fashion for one developer, the next developer or the
one thereafter is going to ask for the same thing and whether or not you want to do that
or not they're going to come in and say well gee you did it for Troutner. Legally I think
it's a real problem to do what you're proposing.
Bird: Mr. Mayor, I'm sure you're probably right Wayne to that degree but I'll tell you as a
community, as a council we need to take a look at -I'm amazed at everything you've
got to have a conditional use permit for around here. Once you set up your
development and stuff you have your standards of what you're going in there and if they
Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 81
come in with those standards why do you have to have a conditional use permit every
time, I don't understand that, I think we need to take a good hard look at that ordinance
and see if there's some things we need to change in it and you're the legal mind not me
so - but I think there's got to be something done, we're just going to drive these people
away and I wouldn't blame them.
Anderson: I guess this Albertson's thing tonight though if we didn't have the policy that
we had we wouldn't have been hearing that one and it would just be a done deal.
Bird: Weill don't think you've heard the end of that either.
Anderson: Well we might not have but-
Rountree: Yeah, but they're not in a commercial park either or an industrial park.
Bird: That's not a development out there that's a one time shot, I mean did they have to
come in and get a conditional use for their retail outlets there?
Stiles: No.
Bird: Okay, that's what I'm talking about and they were just trying to be good neighbors,
the only reason they're here before us this time, Albertson's was, I mean they feel
legally they could go build that thing but anyway that's neither here nor there on this
deal. I think if they come in with - give them their final plat and everything and they got
the plan deal why do they have to come in for a conditional use as long as ifs in line
with what is planned for that development, why can't they just come in and sit down and
start the building permit instead of going through conditional use permits.
Corrie: Well they can but you've got to change the ordinance so you need to look at the
change -
Bird: That's what we need to take a look at and I want it legal, don't get me wrong and I
don't want to see junk thrown around stuff but I think we can - a lot of that can be
handled in your final plats and when your development comes ahead and you look at
what's going there I think if you're going to get in trouble some times that's where you
get in trouble. I have a philosophy if those guys are going to go out and spend the
money on a building like that they're going to build it first class, they're not going to be
around you know. I think we need to take a look at that ordinance Shari real hard.
Stiles: It's not really an ordinance, it's in the zoning and subdivision ordinance, it's
everything - it's more tied to the comprehensive plan that every single annexation since
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Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 82
September of 1993 required that if it was in a mixed planned use development area it
required a conditional use permit, every single use.
Bird: Mr. Forrey's comprehensive plan?
Stiles: Yes. I would like the Council to consider since they have come in, we've seen
the covenant, they have put restrictions on themselves as to the types of uses there as
to the construction materials they're going to use they haven't specifically come in and
shown us every site but as long as they meet ordinance requirements and I guess I
want to just consider that they've fulfilled their requirements for planned use
development on those lots.
Bird: Do you need a motion - what do we do?
Rountree: Well it appears to me that we would have to amend or review the ordinance
and see if we should add something to it that would take care of the situation you
explained where they do develop conditions within their own - with their own CC&R's or
however they've done it and if those are approved by the City and then possibly we
could accept those into the decision document and that could - we'll wave the additional
need to come before the Council for conditional use permit with the provision that if they
choose not to follow the rules they've established or in those areas where we've
identified like in this case adjacent to the residence like we did with Barnes' adjacent to
the residence that they would still have to come with conditional use permit. Seems to
me like it's just maybe just crafting another paragraph or two into the ordinance.
Bird: It's not an ordinance you say it's a comprehensive plan?
Stiles: It's in the comprehensive plan and it was also in the ordinance annexing this
particular piece of property.
Rountree: It's in the annexation ordinance.
Stiles: Yeah..
Rountree: And I think we could do that in the annexation ordinance couldn't we Wayne,
if that's what we wanted to do?
Crookston: I don't think that you can do that because you're violating the camp plan
which is an ordinance.
Ballantyne: We're not part of that planned use development, we were existing urban in
the camp plan I believe. If I could just make a comment just in generalities, when we
first started dealing with this I had a couple of discussions with the Mayor and I think the
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Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 83
way to get around it for you as an entity is to craft your development agreements in
such a way that they're restrictive, CC&R's can be changed by vote of the association,
what you want is something that runs with the land and so in fact I think I gave you
copies of Nampa's development agreements, you want the development agreement not
just to state that the developer will put stop signs in and sidewalks and that type of thing
but exactly what uses will be allowed under this agreement and what uses would
require a conditional use and that way it's all spelled out and you're not having to ~aste
your City Council meeting or your P & Z meetings doing those things so you can focus
more on sewer extension issues which are going to be kind of a nightmare for the future
there.
Corrie: (Inaudible)
Ballantyne: Make your development agreements specific so the developer knows what
he can do and he can't do and that helps the marketing as well.
Stiles: This was designated, the entire development was designated as an existing
urban area, we've already set the precedence by John Barnes' proposal of accepting
uses without conditional use permits in a mixed planned use area.
Rountree: Yes we have and that was in the annexation ordinance I believe, was it not?
Ballantyne: I donlt think our use would violate your comprehensive plan ordinance but it
would violate the ordinance that annexed us and that would - (inaudible)
Stiles: What if I just forget when I accept the -
Corrie: We don't want to do that. Shari why don't you get with legal and work out what
needs to be done, what steps we have to take and give them to us and letls take them.
There's got to be something here - we're not re-doing the wheel here. I think he's got
some good plans there on the development agreement so if we can weave that in there
some way I think you can do that.
Stiles: Well it may take another public hearing but I don't think there's anything that
would prevent us from accepting the building permit application and start the process
anyway.
Ballantyne: You surprised me when you called me to talk about it, we were planning on
submitting a conditional use permit application for that building so if we'd have wanted
to waive that and - our whole concern initially when that was brought up was just that it
was presented to all new developments coming into the City would be under this deal
that they would have to go through a conditional use and that doesn't seem to be the
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Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 84
case so I think we were a little concerned that we're in a disadvantage and so we
certainly would like to work with you on that.
Corrie: Okay, if you want to do that Shari, put it together and we can (inaudible)
Stiles: Okay. I've got two new code enforcement officers, they're working two days a
week each one, they're kind of sharing the job, two retired police officers, they're not full
bore out on the beat yet but any comments you have, any enforcement problems that
you see, I mean there's a lot out there, lots of used car lots, lots of signs, lots of weeds,
well lots of weeds -
Bentley: There's a new one up on Linder now.
Rountree: A new weed?
Bentley: No, sign.
Rountree: Don't smoke it.
Stiles: What?
Bentley: Right next to the church, over on the north side across from the old Smith's
property, Glennfield area. Somebody wants to put a finger nail place in their garage
and got a sign out on the street.
Stiles: Oh, okay, but be sure you call our office and let us know with a complaint and
they'll take care of it, they're ready to work hard - you got the note about the planner
that I lost after a week, I've interviewed somebody else today, offered the position, he
will let me know in the next day or two whether he'll accept the job but still looking.
Thanks.
Rountree: Thank you.
Corrie: Okay, Kenny anything?
Bowers: Nothing Mayor and Council.
Corrie: Gordon?
Gordon: Nothing Mayor.
Corrie: Wayne?
Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 85
Crookston: I don't have anything myself right now unless there's something that the
council wants to do.
Corrie: Okay. Keith?
Bird: (Inaudible) -- I'll skip tonight.
Corrie: Glenn?
Bentley: I just have one question, where's Tom? He didn't quit and go home did he?
Corrie: He took an hour and a half lunch and I chewed his you know what out.
Bentley: I've got one question, I was over looking at the park site and I noticed on the
backside of the restrooms and storage building we have a light, a yard light, that's going
to be projecting right into those houses out behind.
Corrie: This is what park?
Bentley: Tully Park. We got a light like that's on the side of the Fire Station back here,
it's going to project right into the backyards of those people and as soon as it's lit up
they're going to holler.
Smith: Is this mounted on the building Glenn?
Bentley: It's mounted on the building just like on the side of the Fire Station out here but
it's shooting straight back at their houses so we need to-
Corrie: And that lady will be on us because she's already on me about the bathrooms
being next to her yard.
Bentley: Well they1re not outhouses, they shouldn't smell. Anyway I think we need to
take a look at that light. Thafs it.
Corrie: Charlie?
Rountree: You mentioned the one thing about looking at playground equipment at the
next Planning and Zoning Commission meeting which would be the 15th - or Parks and
Ree., it's tomorrow already.
Corrie: Mr. Anderson?
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Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 86
Anderson: Yeah, I just handed out tonight to all of you the second draft with the
changes to the agreement between the City and the Rural Fire District, I gave four
copies of that to Commissioner Steve Bravo on Sunday and so they have it in their
hands now and they're reviewing it and they will get back to us after they've had a
chance to look at it and if they want to set up a meeting then we'll go from there. You
got your copy Wayne?
Crookston: Yes, I do.
Corrie: I've been requested to have a real quick executive session tonight so hopefully
it won't last very long. I'd like to have a motion to go into executive session_
Rountree: So moved.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion made and seconded to go into executive session. All in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: All aye.
ENTERED INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION AT 12:12 A.M.
RETURNED FROM EXECUTIVE SESSION AT 1 :04 A.M.
Corrie: The time in 1 :04 a.m., we're back from the executive session with the
discussion of personnel, no decision was made at the time however we will have
Council make a recommendation at this point.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor, I move that the Council takes under advisement the request for
resignation from City Attorney Crookston for two weeks decision from the City Attorney
at that time June 16th, depending on the decision on the part of the City Attorney the
City would then accept the resignation or take further action.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion made by Mr. Rountree, second by Mr. Bird. Any further discussion? All
those in favor of the motion say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: All aye.
Corrie: I'll entertain a motion for adjournment.
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Meridian City Council
June 2, 1998
Page 87
Bird: So moved.
Bentley: So moved.
Corrie: Motion made and seconded that we adjourn. All those in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: All aye.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 1 :05 A.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
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BEFORE THE MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION
TONYA D. WEBSTER
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR GROUP DAY CARE
3642 E. EISENHOWER DRIVE
CROSSROADS SUBDIVISION NO. 3
MERIDIAN, IDAHO
FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW
The above enti tIed matter having come on for public hearing
April 14, 1998, at the hour of 7:30 o'clock p.m., the Petitioner,
Tanya Webster, appearing in person, the Planning and Zoning
Commission of the City of Meridian having duly considered the
evidence and the matter makes the following Findings of Fact and
Conclusions of Law:
FINDINGS OF FACT
1. That notice of a public hearing on the Conditional Use
Permit was published for two (2) consecutive weeks prior to the
said public hearing scheduled for April 14, 1998, the first
publication of which was fifteen (15) days prior to said hearing;
that the matter was duly considered at the April 14, 1998, hearing;
that the public was given full opportunity to express comments and
submit evidence; and that copies of all notices were available to
newspaper, radio and television stations.
2. This property is located within the City of Meridian and
the Applicant is the owner of the property; that the property is
FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW - Page 1.
TONYA D. WEBSTER - GROUP DAY CARE
l
j
currently zoned I-L Light Industrial.
The Application stated the
property is zoned I-L; that in the ZONING SCHEDULE OF USE CONTROL,
Section 11-2-409 A., Residential, Group Child Care Home is not
listed as a conditional use in the I-L District.
3. The I-L, Light Industrial District is described in the
Zoning Ordinance, 11-2-408 B. 14 as follows:
(I-L) Light Industrial: The purpose of the (I-L) Light
Industrial District is to provide for light industrial
development and opportunities for employment of Meridian
citizens and area residents and reduce the need to
conunute to neighboring ci ties; to encourage the
development of manufacturing and wholesale
establishments which are clean, quiet and free of
hazardous or objectionable elements, such as noise,
odor, dust, smoke or glare and that are operated
entirely or almost entirely within enclosed structures;
to delineate areas best suited for industrial
development because of location, topography, existing
facilities and relationship to other land uses. This
district must also be in such proximity to insure
connection to the Municipal Water and Sewer systems of
the City of Meridian. Uses incompatible with light
industry are not permitted, and strip development is
prohibited.
4. Conditional Use Permit is defined in the Zoning
Ordinance as follows:
"Permits allowing an exception to the uses
authorized by this Ordinance in a zoning district."
5. The property is located at CROSSROADS SUBDIVISION NO.3,
Lot 9, Block 8, which is zoned Light Industrial; that the land
where Crossroads Subdivision is located is all zoned I-L but the
land was also later given the right to be developed in a planned
unit development fashion; that Crossroads Subdivision, an R~4 or R-
8 residential development was allowed to locate in the I-L zone
even though residences are not permitted in the I-L zone.
FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW - Page 2.
TONYA D. WEBSTER - GROUP DAY CAD
(
6. The Applicant wishes to operate a group day care for up
to twelve (12) children in her home.
7. The Applicant, Tanya Webster was sworn in by the
Assistant City Attorney. The Applicant testified that she would
like to operate a day care for up to six or seven children between
the ages of seventeen months and five years.
8 . Chairman Johnson inquired as to whether the applicant
had reviewed the letter from the Assistant to the City Engineer,
Bruce Freckleton. Mrs. Webster noted that she had not received the
letter from Bruce Freckleton.
9 . Commissioner Maccoy noted that he been out to the si te
and had spoken to Mrs. Webster about the daycare center.
Commissioner Maccoy inquired about the neighborhood's covenants and
what were the neighbors' response to a daycare coming into the
neighborhood. Mrs. Webster noted that she spoke with the neighbors
next to her and behind and in front of her and none of them had a
problem with her proposal.
10. Commissioner Maccoy noted that from his tour of the
property there is a fenced yard and a gate to that fence. Mrs.
Webster noted that the gate could be a lockable gate with the
purchase of a deadbol t. Commissioner Maccoy requested that the
Applicant discuss the status of the above ground pool in their
backyard. Mrs. Webster stated nWell there's no way possible that a
kid five years or below could get into that pool, I mean the pool
stands five-foot high and a five year old stands 2-3 feet high you
know, so its impossible, we do have a deck going in around the pool
FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW - Page 3.
TONYA D. WEBSTER - GROUP DAY CARE
but it will be gated and locked and I was just told by Kasha,
because the gal that was here before, that the health inspectors
will tell me to take out the pool or completely fence it in before
I can even get a license."
11. Commissioner Maccoy inquired about signage for the
proposed daycare center.
Mrs. Webster noted that there would not
be a sign. Commissioner Maccoy inquired whether the business would
care for any handicap children. Mrs. Webster noted that maybe kids
with Down's Syndrome but that would be all. Commissioner Maccoy
noted that there are state and federal laws that need to be met if
there are going to be handicapped children on the premises.
Commissioner Maccoy inquired about the hours of operation Mrs.
Webster noted that the daycare would be open from 7:00 a.m. until
6:00 p.m.
12. Commissioner Nelson wanted a clarification on the number
of children.
Mrs. Webster noted that she would care for six or
seven including her own.
13. Commissioner Smith inquired about the areas of the home
being proposed for the daycare center. Mrs. Webster noted that she
would use the kitchen, the dining room, the living room, two spare
bedrooms and one bathroom. She noted that the master bedroom would
be excluded and so would the bedroom by the laundry room.
14. The Assistant City Attorney swore in Mrs. Charlene
England. She noted that she did not have a problem with the daycare
on her street but she was concerned with the increase in traffic
that may occur.
FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW - Page 4.
TONYA D. WEBSTER - GROUP DAY CARE
15. Commissioner Smith read from the A.C.H.D. report, which
noted that a typical daycare generates an additional 4.65 vehicle
trips per day per student. Commissioner Smith noted that you would
then multiply the number of kids by that figure and that would tell
how many addi tional trips would be generated. The Conunissioners
then went on to discuss in length what constitutes a trip.
16. Commissioner Nelson noted that the P& Z Commission has
an obligation to promote alternative day care solutions and that
traffic is only one factor to consider in making a.decision.
17. The Assistant City Attorney swore in Daniel Webster. He
noted that the in ground pool is 52 inches in height. He stated
nWe've put a lot of design into this particular deck that's being
buil t around the pool and rest assured that there is no way any
children can get into this particular area." Commissioner Johnson
inquired if the pool was a covered pool. Mr. Webster noted that it
was a covered pool.
18 . The Assistant to the City Engineer, Bruce Freckleton,
and the Planning and Zoning Administrator, Shari Stiles, submitted
comments which are incorporated herein as if set forth in full
herein: off-street parking shall be provided in accordance with
Section 11-2-414 of the City of Meridian Zoning and Development
Ordinance; that outside lighting shall be designed and placed so as
not to direct illumination on any nearby residential areas and in
accordance with City Ordinance Section 11-2-414 D. 3.; that no
signage shall be allowed; that sanitary sewer and water to the
facility would be through existing service lines and plans for
FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW - paqe 5.
TONYA D. WEBSTER - GROUP DAY CA:RE
sewer and water service will be reviewed to see if the additional
load would justify additional assessments; that Applicant is to
provide information with regard to anticipated water demand; that
Applicant will be required to enter into an Assessment Agreement
with the City prior to operation; that the use will be a commercial
use and charged accordingly;
that
Zoning Certificate and
Certificate of Occupancy for day care are required prior to
operation; that screened trash enclosures are to be provided in
accordance with City Ordinance; that the family child care home
shall not adversely impact surrounding properties due to children's
noise, traffic and other activities; that the Applicant will
provide a copy of the daycare license from the Idaho Department of
Health & Welfare; that the operators' licenses shall be available
on the premises for inspection at all times; that the Applicant
shall screen adjacent residential properties through landscaping
and fencing to protect children from adverse impact and to provide
a buffer between properties; that Applicant shall provide a fence
of appropriate height/construction to enclose play areas; that if
approved, . the Applicant shall schedule an appointment with the
Meridian Fire Department for inspection prior to operating; that
without approval revocation of the condi tional use permi twill
result; that violation of any of the above conditions shall be
cause to revoke a zoning certificate for a family child care home.
The conditional use Permit shall be subject to review upon notice
to the applicant.
19. That the Meridian Fire Chief, Kenny Bowers, requires all
FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW - Page 6.
roNYA D. WEBSTER - GROUP DAY CARE
codes be met.
20. The Ada County Highway District had the following
comments: that this application would not be heard unless the site
plan was changed to require A.C.H.D. Commission review; that all
future design plans and construction will be in accordance with the
ACHD' s Policy Manual, ISPWC Standards and approved supplements,
Construction
Services
procedures
and
all
applicable
ACHD
Ordinances, unless wavied in writing.
21. The
Central
District
Health
Department
submitted
comments which state that after written approval has been obtained
from the appropriate entities they can approve for central sewage.
They would require plans be submitted for a plan review for the day
care center.
22. There was no further testimony given at the hearing.
CONCLUSIONS OF LAW
1. All the procedural requirements of the Local Planning
Act and of the Ordinances of the City of Meridian have been met
including the mailing of notice to owners of property within 300
feet of the external boundaries of the Applicant's property.
2. The City of Meridian has authority to grant conditional
uses pursuant to 67-6512, Idaho Code, and, pursuant to 11-2-418 of
the Revised and Compiled Ordinances of the City of Meridian.
3 . The City has the authority to take judicial notice of
its own ordinances and proceedings, other governmental statutes and
ordinances, and of actual conditions existing within the City and
FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW - Page 7.
TONYA D. WEBSTER - GROUP DAY CARE
state of Idaho.
4. The City of Meridian has authority to place conditions
on a conditional use permit and the use of the property pursuant to
67-6512, Idaho Code. Pursuant to that section conditions minimizing
adverse impact on other development, controlling the duration of
development, assuring the development is maintained properly, and
on-site or off-site facilities, may be attached to the permit; that
11-2-418 (D) authorizes the City to prescribe a set time period for
which a conditional use may be in existence.
5. Section 11-2-418 D. states as follows:
In approving any Conditional Use, the Commission and
Council may prescribe appropriate conditions, bonds, and
safeguards in conformity with this Ordinance. Violations of
such conditions, bonds or safeguards, when made a part of the
terms under which the Condi tional Use is granted, shall be
deemed a violation of the Ordinance and grounds to revoke the
Conditional Use. The Commission and Council may prescribe a
set time period for which a Conditional Use may be in
existence.
6. The City has judged this Application for a conditional use
upon the basis of guidelines contained in Section 11-2-418 of the
Revised and Compiled Ordinances of the City of Meridian and upon
the basis of the Local Planning Act of 1975, Title ,67, Chapter 65,
Idaho Code, the Comprehensive Plan of the City of Meridian, and the
record submitted to it and the things of which it may take judicial
notice.
7 . That the conditional use permit shall be treated as
being conducted in an R-8 Residential District and not the Light
Industrial District since the land is developed and used as a
FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW - Page 8.
TONYA D. WEBSTER - GROUP DAY CARE
(
residential subdivision.
8. 11-2-418 (C) of the Revised and Compiled Ordinances of
the City of Meridian sets forth the standards under which the
Planning and Zoning Commission and the City Council shall review
applicat'ions for Conditional Use Permits; that upon a review of
those requirements, a review of the facts presented, the conditions
of the area, and assuming that the above conditions or similar ones
thereto would be attached to the conditional use, ,the Planning and
Zoning Commission concludes as follows:
a. The use, would in fact, constitute a conditional
use and a conditional use permit would be required
by ordinance;
b. The use would be harmonious with and in accordance
with the Comprehensive Plan and the Zoning
Ordinance requires a conditional use permit to
allow the use;
c. The use is designed and constructed to be
harmonious in appearance with the character of the
general vicinity; if the conditions set forth
herein are complied with the use should be operated
and maintained to be harmonious with the intended
character of the general vicini ty and should not
change the essential character of the area.
d. That the use would not be hazardous nor should it
be disturbing to existing or future neighboring
uses if the conditions are met; that traffic will
increase some but not in a (subtantial) fashion
substantially; that drop-off and pick-up shall be
off the street and such should not be a problem.
e. The property has sewer and water service already
connected, but Applicant may have to pay additional
fees for the use;
f. The use would not create excessive additional
requirements at public cost for public facilities
and services and the use would not be detrimental
to the economic welfare of the community;
FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW - Page 9.
TONYA D. WEBSTER - GROUP DAY CARE
r
g. If the conditions stated below are met, the use
should not involve a use, activity, process,
material, equipment or conditions of operation that
would be detrimental to person, property or the
general welfare by reason of excessive production
of traffic, noise, smoke, fumes, glare or odors.
h. That sufficient parking for the proposed use will
be required to meet the requirements of the City
ordinance.
i . The development and uses will not resul t in the
destruction, loss or damage of a natural or scenic
feature of major importance.
9. It is recommended that the Conditional Use Permit be
granted.
10. If the permit is granted conditions may be placed upon
the granting of the conditional use permit to minimize adverse
impact on other development, it is recommended by the Planning and
Zoning Commission that the following conditions of granting the
conditional use be required, to wit:
a. The children, if outside, shall be maintained in the
fenced area, as required below;
b. There shall be fencing, gates and locks for the outside
play area such that no children can leave the property without
an adult unlocking and opening the gate to let the child or
children out of the play area; no children shall be allowed
outside of the play area or the home without an adult being
present; the fence shall be maintained in good repair and the
children, when outside, shall stay in the fenced area and the
children shall not be allowed outside of the fenced area or
the home, except for drop-off and pick-up times, and an adult
shall be with them at all times if the child or children are
waiting to be picked up;
c. The Applicant shall meet the state of Idaho requirements
for staff to children ratio;
d. The Central District Health Department and the state of
Idaho Department of Health and Welfare have requirements for
day care operations and the Applicant shall meet those
FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW - Page 10.
TONYA D. WEBSTER - GROUP DAY CARE
requirements of the Central District Health Department and the
state of Idaho Department of Health and Welfare;
e . The condi tional use, pursuant to the Zoning Ordinance,
shall not be transferable to another owner of the property or
to another parcel of property;
f. The Applicant shall completely fence the above ground
pool and shall maintain a lock on the pool gate and at no time
shall the pool be used during the hours of operation of the
day care center.
g. The Applicant shall meet the requirements of the City
Engineer's office, the Planning and Zoning Administrator, and
other governmental agencies submitting comments, which
comments specifically include:
1. Off-street parking shall be provided in accordance
with Section 11-2-414 of the City of Meridian
Zoning and Development Ordinance;
2. Sanitary sewer and water to this facility would be
via existing service lines. Plans for sewer and
water service will be reviewed to see if the
additional load would justify additional
assessments. Applicant shall provide any
information that would aid the City in regards to
the anticipated water demand.. Applicant shall be
required to enter into an Assessment Agreement with
the City of Meridian prior to operation.
3. Zoning Certificate and Certificate of Occupancy for
the daycare are required prior to operation.
4 .
The family child care home shall
impact surrounding properties due
noise, traffic and other activities.
not
to
adversely
children's
5 . The Applicant shall secure and maintain a child
care license from the Idaho State Department of
Health and Welfare-Child Care Licensing Division
and provide a copy thereof to the City of Meridian
prior to operation. Operator's license shall be on-
site for City inspection at all times.
6 . The Applicant shall provide screening of adj acent
properties to protect children from adverse impacts
and to provide a buffer between properties.
7. Applicant shall provide for a fence of appropriate
height/construction, to enclose play areas.
FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSXONS OF LAW - Page 11.
TONYA D. WEBSTER - GROUP DAY CARE
8. If the conditional use permit is approved,
Applicant is to schedule an appointment wi th the
Meridian Fire Department for inspection prior to
operating. Operation of daycare without prior
approvals will result in revocation of conditional
use permit.
9 . Violation of any of the above condi tions shall be
cause to revoke a zoning certificate for a family
child care home. The Conditional use Permit shall
be subject to review upon notice to the applicant.
h. The conditional use should not be restricted to a
period of authorization but may be reviewed, upon
notice to the Applicant, for violation of any
conditions imposed herein.
11. That there shall be no more than twelve (12) children
cared for at the home throughout the day; that this number of
children is arrived at from the total number of children cared for
at the facility and not the number of children at the facility at
one time.
12. The above-conditions are concluded to be reasonable
and if the permit is granted the Applicant shall meet these
conditions.
13. It is recommended that the conditional use permit be
granted to the Applicant.
APPROVAL OF FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW
The Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission hereby adopts and
approves these Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law.
FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW - Page 12.
TONYA D. WEBSTER - GROUP DAY CARE
(
ROLL CALL
COMMISSIONER BORUP
VOTED
COMMISSIONER SMITH
VOTED
COMMISSIONER NELSON
VOTED
COMMISSIONER MACCOY
VOTED
CHAIRMAN JOHNSON (TIE BREAKER)
VOTED
RECOMMENDATION
;b:y <r- ~
y~A i)
~Ffr I~ -:1"
YEA > t11J
The Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission hereby recommends
to the City Council of the City of Meridian that they- (~the tif~
~blP fAJ(.JZ l
Conditional Use Permit requested by the Applicant for the property rf~~
, t'l , 1z.
described in the ap lication.
MOTION:
APPROVED:~
4-29-98 - Final
DISAPPROVED:
FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLOSIONS OF LAW - paqe 13.
TONYA D. WEBSTER - GROUP DAY CARE
APPROVAL .OF FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUS.IONS
The Meridian City Council hereby adopts and approves these Findings of Fact and
Nt) JZ
Conclusions of Law on this 2 - day of ~ I 1998.
ROLL CALL
COUNCILMAN BIRD
COUNCILMAN BENTLEY
COUNCILMAN ROUNTREE
COUNCILMAN ANDERSON
VOTED
VOTED
VOTED
VOTED
MAYOR CORRIE (TIE BREAKER)
VOTED
(INITIAL) ~
APPROVED
DISAPPROVED
FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LA\'\( _. {! UjJ
~fLW.e6J/Vv ~~~ 6-/2-
(
(
MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL
~
AGENDA
TUESDAY, JUNE 2, 1998 -7:30 P.M.
CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS
ROLL CALL: +RON ANDERSON ~CHARLIE ROUNTREE
GLENN BENTLEY =X:=KEITH BIRD
~ MAYOR ROBERT CORRIE
LJvJ ,MINUTES Of" PREVIOU$ MEETING HELD M~Y 19, 1998:~f/~
/'~fJOlh/-~ ,:7-f-Id/'W/Mf 1JeNM/Ld.-- ro ;/tZ ~ ·
TABLED MAY 19,1998: REQUEST TO HOOK UP TO~ATER BY HOLY
APOSTLES CATHOLIC CHURCH - SOUTHEAST Ctr"R~ OF MERIDIAN
ROAD AND CHINDEN BLVD: -L ~ / ') ~ ~ 11~ -h~' )
~ ~ c;;ruLq '7 t!= In ~. /'" re J:eCl/LCf'\./ cI tl,/Lh <<4 CA r CT"-'
TABLED MAY 19,1998: REQUEST TO HOOK UP TO CITY SEWER AND
WATER BY LOS CHURCH - LOCUST GROVE AND USTICK: ~tJv~
TABLED MAY 19,1998: DISCUSSION BY ELAINE ESTACIO REGARDING R-4
ZONING ORDINANCE AND IN HOME DAYCARE: -- ~
~~~ r;ltS'~5 r/~
ORDINANCE #792 - CHANGES TO TITLE 8, CHAPTER 9, OFFENSIVE
MATTER: --fr/;lf ~ J~ 711 ~7'
RESOLUTION #168 - DEPUTIZING AND AUTHORIZING RESOLUTION:
~rPv~
ORDINANCE #793 - AMENDMENTS TO ZONING AND SUBDIVISION AND
DEVELOPMENT ORDINANCES:
~~ tvvv7SL JA-/~ 78-
ORDINANCE #794 - VENdoRS, PEDDLERS AND SOLICITORS:
~#(e ~7 ~1 7~
PUBLIC HEARING: REQOEST FOR ANNEXATION AND ZONING OF 1.8
ACRES OF TO C-G BY TOM BEVAN - 3020 W. FAIRVIEW AVENUE:
~ht<.L- ~/I/ ~/7 ~/~d
PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A
RETAIL SHOPPING CENTER (CHELSEA SQUARE BY TOM BEVAN - 2030 W.
FAIRVIEW:
C~ /JIll ~7 ~ 16~
10. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A
HOME DAYCARE: WENDELL & KATHLEEN LAWRENCE - 889 N. FILLMORE
WAY: el/7- f.o reviSe ~/j:fc/( ~ j?fz C~~
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
('-
11. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A
GROUP DAY CARE (6 TO 12 CHILDREN) BY TONYA WEBSTER - 3642 E.
EISENHOWER: tZj:?pTtlVe --/'1;:: { c(t. ~~vz.e- ctLaJ>~
12. PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A
SECOND BUILDING FOR A FUEL ISLAND BY ALBERTSON'S, INC. -
SOUTHWEST CORNER OF W. CHERRY LANE & TEN MILE ROAD:
C'/1ra~~ Ie ~jJ~ /l~vJ ..f(.? le/~
13. REQUEST TO REIMBURSE THE "DOUBLED" PORTION OF THE SEWER AND
WATER ASSESSMENT FEES BY MERIDIAN PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH -
SOUTHWEST CORNER OF USTICK AND _MERIDIAN ROADS: ,
approve /1.f.~d ~t7h-~h~4 ~h~a-h~
14. REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION BY RUDY GONZALES REGARDING STREET
DANCES: /LP
15. DISCUSSION OF POSSIBLE ORDINANCE CHANGE WITH CROSS
CONNECTION AND BACKFLOW DEVICES:
/j)h<e )~r- N ctIsCU5'J
16. WATERISEWERffRASH DELINQUENCIES: t:ijJlrov-<../
17. APPROVE BILLS: arpTVI/L
18. DEPARTMENT REPORTS:
A. WILL BERG:
1. FRIENDSHIP CELEBRATION AGREEMENT.
C/.4- WI)t r€-d1.-~ tZ~
2. BEER & WINE LICENSE FOR KBC DEVELOPMENT (ULTRA
TOUCH CAR WASH) ~A w~l .7utc1 -;f3,
B. GARY SMITH:
1. BID AWARD FOR PARKING LOT IMPROVEMENTS @ PINE
STREET AN D NW 8TH. ,I) ~ L J---./
ac~~ r ~/h--L r-a.-vht;J B7.tlV'
2. SEWER SERVICE TO COUNTY AREAS NE AREA OF IMPACT.
sef- tvp d~C(~ ~rrJc-olvcf>
3. BUILDING PERMIT ISSUANCE FOR HOME DEPOT.
4. PROPOSED_CHANGES TO SEWER USE ORDINANCE.
./l..R-P~
C. SHARI STILES:
1. VIENNA WOODS SUBDIVISION.
.s/u~~?~
2. TROUTNER BUSINESS PARK CONDITION USE
REQUIREMENT.
( ::ITY 0 F MERID IAN (
PUBLIC MEETING SIGN-UP SHEET
RECEIVED
J UN.... 2 1998'
CITY OF MERIDI.A.N
NA'ME
T~~ t- f-i~C;IIE) ~~IISLlD
q~~~ 4 flt1~
. '--J , )
/"- - . /,-,i
"~I {)!,.t~ (~~&'l7'_
PHONE NlTMBER
~~'7-~03~
;;8,>[ 90 J-O
r? ')-7' p...-->( ,..'j C","" -~ ()
..~" - -~ ,;,
~?'-l ~55-5---
l\ S LI r ()~ ~ -j
lt9;f..,{ - ~;2 >?
. 6 w Jt/tJ c;(
S~~ 47~S"-
If 9 7-1'1-/8
(... ~ITY .OF MERIDIAN ( .
PUBLIC MEETING SIGN-UP SHEET
RECEIVED
JUN -,2 1998
CITY OF MERIDIAN
~NE NUMBER
-7- f?67b
79'7 .- P{p '7 k
. 6?fo -~(3)
NAME
~r) 6 C.~M~Bf~
f?t '-fU( S" (!tf14/~( E/~ S
~~ c~ tl.. fU c.,
.
(
(
ITEM NUMBER: 5
1(,3
REQUEST: RESOLUTION #t82 - DEPUTIZING AND AUTHORIZING RESOLUTION
AGENCY
COMMENTS
CITY CLERK:
CITY ENGINEER:
CITY PLANNING DIRECTOR:
CITY ATTORNEY:
SEE ATTACHED RESOLl)TION
CITY POLICE DEPT:
CITY FIRE DEPT:
CITY BUILDING DEPT:
MERIDIAN SCHOOL DISTRICT:
MERIDIAN POST OFFICE:
ADA COUNTY HIGHWAY DISTRICT:
CENTRAL DISTRICT HEALTH:
(/-/
{Alp p ~
ADA COUNTY STREET NAME COMMITTEE:
NAMPA MERIDIAN IRRIGATION:
SETTLERS IRRIGATION:
IDAHO POWER:
US WEST:
INTERMOUNTAIN GAS:
BUREAU OF RECLAMA liON:
OTHER:
All Materials presented at pUblic meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
(
ifflo ?
RESOLUTION NO. /6[3
A RESOLUTION OF THE CITY OF MERIDIAN DEPUTIZING AND AUTHORIZING
BOISE CITY PROSECUTORS AND GARDEN CITY PROSECUTORS TO PROSECUTE
MERIDIAN CITY CASES; AND PROVIDING AN EFFECTIVE DATE.
WHEREAS, it is reasonable and prudent for the City of Boise to
prosecute those cases where a Boise City police officer makes an
arrest or issues a citation to a Boise Ci ty suspect in Meridian
City or a Meridian suspect in Boise City, or where the Meridian
City Attorney's Office has a conflict of interest, and
WHEREAS, it is reasonable and prudent for the City of Garden
City to prosecute those cases where a Garden Ci ty police officer
makes an arrest or issues a citation to a Garden City suspect in
Meridian City or a Meridian suspect in Garden City, or where the
Meridian City Attorney's Office has a conflict of interest
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED BY THE MAYOR AND THE CITY
COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF MERIDIAN, IDAHO:
1. That those Boise City Deputy Prosecutors and Garden City
Deputy Prosecutors, admitted to and in good standing with the Idaho
Bar be, and the same are hereby deputized as Meridian City Deputy
Prosecuting Attorneys as to those matters deemed appropriate by the
Meridian City Attorney, together with all powers and duties
associated with said office.
DEPUTIZING AND AUTHORIZING RESOLUTION
Page - 1
<'
\
(~
2. This Resolution shall be in full force and effect
immediately upon its adoption and approval.
PASSED BY THE CITY COUNCIL AND APPROVED BY THE MAYOR OF THE
~ no(
CITY OF MERIDIAN, this ~ day of June, 1998.
APPROVED:
ATTEST:
DEPUTIZING AND AUTHORIZING RESOLUTION
Page - 2
(
(
ITEM NUMBER: 16
COMMENTS
~vV
All Materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
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