Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes Meridian Planning and Zoning comm'ton AprilS. 2001 Pg.58 . this. 50, I am supportive of it as well. I think it is a nice project and I think having the two accesses will help alleviate some of the traffic concerns, Borup: Are you ready to vote? Shreeve: I second the motion from the table. Borup: All in favor? Any opposed? MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Borup: Thank you. Item 10. Public Hearing: .CUP 01-G01 Request for Conditional Use Permit for planned development to include office, retail and industrial for proposed l....ure Valley Technical Center by Meridian Freeway Associates and DBSI Industrial limited Partnership - Y4 mile east of Linder Road, north side of Overland Road: Borup: Item No. 10. Public Hearing on Conditional Use Permit for planned development to include office, retail and industrial for proposed Treasure Valley Technical Center by Meridian Freeway Associates and DBSI Industrial Limited Partnership a quarter mile east of Linder Road, north side of Overland. I would like to open this hearing and start with the staff report. Hawkins-Clark: Thank you Chairman Borup. Western Electronics is located here on the north - I'm sorry, the southeast portion of this property. It is the entire crosshatched piece here. A Veterinary Clinic here, Overland Road bordering the south and 1-84 the north. It is already annexed already in the City zone is light industrial. So, the reason for this Conditional Use is to get approval for an overall concept plan to develop the full acreage. Site photos, they do already have the majority of improvements there as far as landscaping, signage for the Western Electronics. South, across Overland is currently ag-Iand. Here is the concept plan that was submitted. They are talking about seven different buildings that contain about 261,000 square feet of floor area. On 32.79 acres, they have proposed 46 different potentialllses for these buildings and we have outlined those in the memo dated April 3, 2001 from Bruce and Dave McKinnon. The elevations that were submitted with the application are here. To my understanding, these elevations are not necessarily tied to any of these particular building types, they are more or less sample elevations but, the applicants certainly speak to that. There are a couple of different side and front elevations here. In terms of the staff report, itself. We have asked you as the Commission to the Council, on Page 3, Item No.1, to determine which of the lists of the uses list that should be included in the Plan Development project. We do have some concerns about the amount of uses proposed. There were two options laid out Merldian Planning and Zoning eannI" April 5, 2001 Pg.59 here, later In the staff report. We have basically said that the Council or Commission could require conditional use for any or all of the buildings as they come through. The second alternative would be to alloW 20 percent of the land area to contain non.conforming uses. As you know, the Plan Development Ordinance, there was a Zoning Amendment before you last month where we talked about how you can have 20 percent of the total acreage be uses that don't necessarily conform to that zone. So, that would be the 20 percent of this 36 acres, could be used as not falling under the light industrial category. Then item number 3, Bruce is going to highlight in a minute a couple of the issues on the sewer and water. The water department did comment about the well number 22, it does need to be completed prior to this project being - any building permits being issued. Then the last item to point out, number nine on page five. We feel that the applicant should be required to submit some sort of plan before requesting the Sign Program Approval. Given the amount of numbers, we do have in our new Sign Ordinance a requirement for a Plan Sign Program. We would ask that they submit some form of theme that would be used and general sizes and locations, before those would go on the plan. . Freckleton: Mr. Chairman, members of the Commission, just a couple of points that I wanted to just touch on to maybe clarify some points. Page No.4, Item No. 3 talks about the sewer situation in this area. This development does fall within the Black Cat Trunk service area. Bear Creek Subdivision was approved ahead of this development, ahead of Western Electronics. There was a - calculations done, showing that with the discharge of Bear Creek Subdivision via the lift station to the receiving sewer in the Ten Mite drainage, that there was a remaining capacity, available capacity of no more than 80 gallons a minute. That's why we have that restriction and that comment. Borup: Mr. Freckleton, could you expand on what 80 gallons a minute means to a novice? How many - is there a rule of thumb, it handle so many square feet of business buildings or people? I don't know if that means anything to me. Shreeve: How are you going to regulate it? Freckleton: The lift station that they have is going to regulate it. Borup: It has got a meter or that is the capacity of it? It starts malfunctioning if it gets over that, is that what you are saying? Freckleton: The pumping capacity of the lift station cannot exceed 80 gallons a minute. Borup: So, jf more development was done that could handle that, what happens? Freckleton: If more development was done above the 80 gallons a minute? Mefidlan Plannlng and Zoning commln AprilS, 2001 Pg.60 . Borup: Yes. Freckleton: They are going to have to look at some alternatives. Some of the alternatives - Borup: I guess the question is, can that be somewhat determined before the buildings are built, before it is being used? Or do you wait until after the fact and see what happens? Freckleton: I think - Borup: I would assume there are some guidelines that we can say, this intense of a use is all that you can go up to until something is improved. Freckleton: Right, and I think that that responsibility lies on the design engineer for the development He knows what our restriction are and -- Borup: So, say 80 gallons a minute would be natural restriction on the project development and up to them to show otherwise? Freckleton: Correct. Borup: I think that clarifies it, somewhat, for me. Thank you. Freckleton: It is kind of a crystal ball question as to what the discharges are for the different types of uses. I couldn't tell you. Then the water situation, we are in the process of drilling a new well in the Bear Creek Subdivision. Prelimina.ry calculations that the Fire Department have done for fire flows are up in the neighborhood of 23 hundred gallons a minute, fire flow demand. Until we have that well drilled and on-line, it is another crystal ball question as to what we can deliver to that location. I do know that they have had some dialogue with the Fire Department about alternative fire suppression systems and perhaps their engineer can speak to that tonight. Borup: Could you speak to the time frame on - you say the well is in a process of drilling. Does that mean there is a machine out there right now? Freckleton: Very shortly. I don't believe we are set up on it yet. Borup: But, what type of time frame on that well? Freckleton: It will probably be mid to late summer before that's on-line. Borup: Okay, thank you. I interrupted you on something else? Meridian Planning and Zoning Com.!on Aprll5,2001 Pg.61 Freckleton: That's all that I was going to touch on. Borup: All right, I didn't interrupt you then. Any questions from the Commission or any of the staff? e Hawkins-Clark: Chairman Borup, I'm sorry, the only other thing I was going to point out there is, in ACHD's April 4th letter, yesterday, they did - one of the items they talked about is recommending the closure of one of these two western driveways. So, that will impact the site design if that goes through as the Commissions final decision over there at ACHD. Shreeve: Mr. Chairman, to expand upon ACHD's comments as well. We received in our packets two different correspondents from ACHD. -End of Side Four*** Shreeve: The ACHD has requested some additional data, some up-to-date data. It appears that the traffic counts that were included in the traffic study were over a year old. The second was the April 4th correspondence of Christi Richardson. You should have both of those in your packets. Borup: Yes, we just got them today. Is the applicant here? Would you like to come forward? Yaks: Mr. Chairman, member of the Commission, my name is Clinton Yaka, BRS Architects, 1010 South Alonte. I'm just here to answer any questions that you may have. Also with me are two representatives from DBSI and also Mr. Callaham, our Civil Engineer, if you have any questions for them? Borup: Yes, the first question would be, is are you in agreement with all of staff comments? Yaka: Yes. Borup: So, no concerns on the sewer flow or any of that on how it will affect your development? Yaka: No, not at 80 gaHons a minute. Borup: Any comment on the - it sounded like the ACHD commented on - Yaka: Yes, they are only allowing us three curb cuts and we have no problems with that either. Borup: Pardon, okay, so I'm assuming you are going to eliminate one of the ones on the left there? MEmian Planning and Zoning camlon AprilS, 2001 I:'g.62 e Yaka: Yes, we will have a discussion with the Highway District about that. Borup: Any questions from any of the Commissioners? Nary: Mr. Chairman, I'm sorry I didn't get your last name. Yaka: Yaka Nary: Mr. Yaka, you are asking for a Conditional Use Permit to basically build six buildings. Yaks: Not necessarily six buildings. Nary: My point exactly. I don't know exactly what you want to build, I don't know what you want to do when you do it there. The Conditional Use Permit is supposed to relate to uses of some sort. I look at your laundry list of proposed uses and I can't see what you eliminated out of the potential uses you could have there. I'm not sure whether you want us to design your project, but I'm not sure why we are wasting our time when you don't know exactly what you want. Yaka: Exactly. We are here for a conceptual Conditional Use Permit What we are trying to say is that we don't know if we are going to build six buildings, one building or 14 buildings. We want the latitude of building those 46 uses within the amount of square footage that we acquired. I think it is - whatever the square footage was. . Nary: Okay, let me stop you there for a second, Mr. Yaka. We don't have a conceptual Conditional Use Permit. We have a Conceptual Plan that we look at and say that sounds like a good idea. For example, about two months ago we had a conceptual plan for an industrial type of park, an office building type of park at the intersection of Eagle and Overland. They brought us their conceptual plan, which included the buildings, landscaping, and a proposal of the kind of uses that they want to have. You didn't bring that. You brought us building elevations that mayor may not exist, numbers of buildings that mayor may not exist ever, and a whole laundry list of uses that aren't compatible together. So, I guess I think conceptual plan is a great idea, I think that is a wonderful things to do, but that is not what you are asking us to do. You are asking us to give you a permit to have (inaudible) to build one or six buildings and 50 different things that we can't do. Yaka: Can the Commission approve the Conceptual Plan based on the square footage and the 46 uses that we have requested and if whenever a building comes up that we come before you for a Conditional Use for that specific building and a specific use. Meridian Planning and Zoning ~on April 5, 2001 Pg.63 Nary: Well, I think that's kind of what the staff was recommending and I guess that you are here sort of prematurely. That was one of the proposals in there. e aorup: That's why I read a staff's comment. Nary: That they can do but usually you have done that before you come here. Usually that's what we are talking about. They don't suggest it, they are already doing it. What I guess I am troubled with is spending the time in reading this stuff and that's all that Staff was wanting, saying tell us a little bit more about it and give us a little more concrete. Then they would recommend to us in a report that that is what we would pass along to the Council, that this Conceptual Plan makes sense, it's a good idea, here are some uses, let's have some limitations through a Development Agreement or something like that. We're not quite there yet. It sounds like we are carving it out tonight and that is a pretty time consuming process. That's what the staff processes are for, to do that. Yaks: Okay, so, what are you recommending? Nary: Well, I'm just one person. Maybe everybody wants to carve it out tonight. I guess, I look at it and say, you know what, this isn't done. You need to go back and work with the staff and bring that back, like you just said, like they suggested, and saying here is what we kind of want to do and then we will give a Conditional Use Permit each time. Yaka: Couldn't the Commission make that motion as part of one of the conditions of approval for this Conceptual Plan, that whenever we want to build a building and we know the use that we come in front of you again for the conditional use for that specific building? Centers: You're not going to build it all out at once. Yaka: No Centers: You're going to build one at a time -- Yaka: Right, and we don't know what- Centers: When you get a tenant or a buyer. Yaka: Exactly. Centers: And that's what you have to do is come back at that time because if, as Commissioner Nary points out, you're asking for a lot of uses and a lot of open ends and we've seen problems with that. Even recently. The one plus you have there. you don't have homeowners living next door. do you? Meridian Planning and ZOIling eammtion Apnl 5, 2001 Pg.64 Yaka: No. It Centers: And you have the interstate bordering you. So, you are not going to have a lot of objections here. But, the Staff said they could require a Conditional Use Permit for any or all of the offer mentioned prohibited uses. So, you come back one at a time. I don't know. What does the staff comment on that? Hawkins.Clark: Commissioner Centers, I think we probably feel that a conceptual CUP is of no real benefit to the City. If they do come back through and it is going to be a CUP I which is what I am hearing you lean towards, the usual rule of thumb is 10 percent flexibility. So, if somebody has a CUP that is approved, they have 10 percent flexibility to sort of modify that without coming back before you. For instance, if they have 250,000 square feet approved and you were to say, okay, that's it, that's maximum on that. We at staff level, if they came in with ten percent above that and added another 25000 then we could do that, but the amount of details in uses is our main concern. I think that if this general layout, you appreciate and you want to approve, they come through and we would just basically track each project. We would say, you have to have this maximum number of parking stalls, this maximum height of your buildings. We could track that as each CUP came through the process. That would not necessarily be a big issue for us, I don't think, at our level. They come in, we compare the buildings with what this conceptual plan says and we can live with that. it is the uses I think is the biggest concern. Borup: But this time they could do anything that will approve it in the industrial - the I-L zone, is that correct? Hawkins-Clark: That is correct. Except they - Borup: They need to be before us on anything in the I-L zone. So, is that what you are trying to accomplish here tonight, get some uses, some of the commercial uses that are in addition to the industrial zone? Yaka: Right. Borup: Okay. You're looking for assurance that that is going to be okay before you go out and try to attract the tenants? Yaka: Exactly. Nary: Mr. Chairman, so that I can make it very clear. I don't think this is a bad idea. I just don't think that it is a very developed idea. I think it is a good use of the property. I think Mr. Centers is right, there are only neighbors across from Overland to the south, correct? There are some farms and some single~family homes so I think that it is a good location to do something, like what you are talking about. I don't think there is enough information for us to really pass this Meridian Planning and Zoning Ccmmation e April 5, 2001 Pg.65 forward to the City Council because I think they are going to be in the same boat that we are by saying, well what do you want to do. They want to know what it is. I don't think there is anything wrong with what you are wanting, but I think what the staff is saying is that a Plan Development is supposed to be a plan. The plan here is very broad, V$ry general. Yaks: Yes, exactly. Nary: It is very hard for us to deal with very broad and general because it is really not our position to design your project for you. Yaka: Well, we are not asking you to design the project. We are asking you for approval on a Conceptual Plan of development that has x amount of square feet and has x amount of buildings, but we want the latitude out of it. Say 20,000 to 50,000 square feet, to have a portion of it turned into an electronics plant, part of it offices, some of it into an RND building or maybe a commercial or retail building. Nary: What I am reading is that we can do that, but that is not what your application is for. Your application is for a Conditional Use Permit with really no uses accepted, all uses allowed, even ones that are not allowed in that zone and that is what I am saying is the problem. Maybe we are just talking about two different things. What I am reading in the staff report is that they wanted to see a plan, that there really is a Conceptual Plan that they can bring forward and we do review those and say, yes, that sounds like a great idea, go forward. When you get the uses, then come back and get the uses. Yaka: Which we do, we listed 46 uses. Nary: Did you eliminate any? Yaks: I think we did. Nary: You didn't eliminate very many of them. All I am saying is that the Conceptual Plan and a Conditional Use are two different things in the staff's mind and in my mind. Maybe that is where my hang up is. Borup: Mr. Yaka, it looks, to summarize, it looks to me like what you are trying to accomplish is to do some commercial uses in the industrial zone. Yaks: Yes. Borup: Are you looking for a conceptual approval from the City that you can proceed on that assumption? Yaka: Yes. Meridian Planning and Zoning commt, April 5, 2001 Pg.66 e Borup: Then you are willing to come back with specific conditional use on the buildings ~- Yaka: Yes. Borup: I can see - it makes sense to me that they would not want to proceed and try to sell commercial property when the City has no intention of allowing that. If they could get some type of assurance within certain guidelines that that would be approved. Then- Nary: And can understand that and don't - Borup: And the industrial is the most intensive of the zonings anyway. In a sense - some sense - it is a little bit of a down zone use. Nary: Mr. Chairman, I agree with what you are saying and I understand what he is asking for - what he is asking for in his testimony - but they are aSking for us to hand them a blank check permit to build whatever they think they want to build and then we have to carve it out on the other end by saying, no, we don't want that. Yaka: No, we'll - if the Commission approves this conditional use on the Conceptual Plan - we will be glad to come back to you or just to staff, whichever is necessary, and show you what the use is and what the building will exactly look like, once we know what we are going to build. Centers: Well, and you would have to because you have homeowners to the south that may be here, as we have seen in the past, in groves. If you elected to put in a shopping center or a radio and 1V or restaurants they would be notified. I don't know if the notification on this application went to property owners within 300-feet - the standard rule. They probably saw this and I don't know how they are going to do their thing across on Overland where you have - I know all of the businesses there because I don't live that far - but, if you advertise that you are going to be putting in a shopping center, you will have a lot of people here, probably. I understand your conceptual plan. Nary: And I do too. I think - what I am asking from Brad - I know we have reviewed conceptual plans before and said that that sounds fine and we're okay with that and then bring back conditional uses when you do that. I don't have a problem with what you are wanting to do. I just have a problem in granting a very open ended Conditional Use Permit that we have to carve out every exception between now and when you actually geta building. I'd rather go forward as we have done and say that that sounds fine, go figure out what commercial use you actually want to put there and then we will have to determine if that is compatible or not. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commton April 5, 2001 Pg.B7 . Borup: Can we make that into a motion and move on? Nary: Yes. Centers: Yes, I think you can. Nary: Well, we need to make sure there are not other people who want to testify . Borup: Right. That's.... no one is on the list, do we have anyone here to testify on this? The longer we take the - okay. We were about ready to make a motion. Callaham: I just thought I would make a quick statement. Borup: Okay. Callaham: My name is Craig Callaham. I'm with Quadrant Consulting, the Civil Engineer for the project, 405 South 8th Street, Boise. At the Planning Department's request we put this Planned Unit Development Plan together so that we could get a concept to work under, kind of an overall picture of the whole thing and then come back in with the individual conditional uses like you are talking about. This was Planning and Zoning's thought is that they wanted to show you guys the whole picture in order that you would not see these hodge~ podge little pieces coming in and you would have a master plan that encompasses the whole thing. Borup: So, do you anticipate the road of the main entranceway would stay the same then? Callaham: Yes, most of that main road is already built, but the - Borup: Oh, that's true. So, you just have the other half to do anyway. Callaham: A large part of this is already developed and been approved through the City already and like I say, this Is just what you are talking about doing. Saying, okay this is a good idea, go forward with it and then come back with the specifics. That's why we are here. So, we are in agreement with that. Nary: Yes, and I think we are on the same page, I really do. I just think that we are talking about some more semantic difference and some of the more technical differences of having it. I don't think that we are really far apart. Callaham: Right, just getting past that ~- this is a good concept for this. That is the only reason that we are here tonight. Any questions? Meridian Planning and Zoning ean.ron April 5, 2001 Pg.68 . Borup: I hope we see you often then. Callaham: Yes, probably even four or five or six times. Borup: Thanks. It could have been made easier if the list was shorter, but it covers everything in commercial, so, it sounds like we are leaning towards - Nary: Mr. Chairman, I would move to close - well, is there any other staff comment, I'm sorry. Any other public (inaudible) before-- Borup: No, we already asked. We are ready for a motion. Nary: I would move that we close the Public Hearing. Centers: Second Borup: Motion seconded. All in favor? MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Nary: Mr. Chairman, I move we recommend to the City Council for CUP 01.009, but with the following amendment. This is initially a request for a Conditional Use Permit. What I would recommend that we recommend to the City Council for approval is the Conceptual Plan proposed by Treasure Valley Technical Center for the proposed retail office, industrial Treasure Valley Technical Center by the Meridian Freeway Associates and DBSI Industrial Limited partnership- a quarter mile east of Linder Road, the north side of Overland Road. That it be basically the conceptual plan as presented with the appropriate staff comments and that the developer here, the Meridian Freeway Associates, will return with aU uses on this site by condition - we require there to be a Conditional Use Permit that will be reviewed both by the Commission and the Council upon each - Borup: All uses or all non-conforming uses? Nary: All non-conforming - all uses not allowed uses in the industrial zone already. So, all uses that are not already allowed by the existing zone. That would include any commercial uses, residential uses, and some of the other things. I think they had asked for some of the ones that are not allowed in the industrial zone. It would include any of those. So, that all that we are essentially approving and recommending to Council is the Conceptual Plan to go forward. Not the specific building design, not the specific layout of buildings, not any uses at all until they bring back what uses they actually want to put that are not currently already allowed use of the zone. Borup: Did Council get that motion down? Meridian Planning and Zoning commlon AprilS, 2001 Pg.69 -- Council: Yes. Borup: Really? I'm impressed. We have a motion. Centers: Second. Borup: And a second. Any discussion? All in favor? Any opposed? MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Borup: Thank you. Norton: Do you want those blueprints? Borup: Would these be of benefit to anybody? Item 11. Public Hearing: RZ 01..003 Request for rezone from R-4 to C-C for Partition Specialties, Inc by Ronald and Coleen Schaub - 1315 North Meridian Road: Borup: Item No. 11, request for rezone from R-4 to C..C for Partition Specialties, Inc. by Ronald and Coleen Schaub - did I pronounce that right? - at 1315 North Meridian Road. We would like to open this Public Hearing and start with the staff report. Hawkins..Clark: Thank you, Chairman Borup. Again, this is a small lot on Meridian Road, it has an existing house on it. C-C zoning is all on the east side of Meridian Road from Cherry Lane down to a little more than about a third of a mile. The west side of Meridian Road is all zoned residential right now with the exception of just two lots here down to the railroad tracks. Except, this C-C zoned lot which is immediately north of the subject lot and then two lots to the south is this limited office lot. Both of these are - this is the insurance use here, this Is an existing house that I believe a few years ago they came through to rezone - strictly a rezone to C-C. They chose not to move forward with any actual development plans in terms of turning it into retail, but the zone did change. So, they are proposing a C-C on this parcel to match the zoning around it. This is the front of the house here on the right hand side, the rear alley lot entrance there. The alley, as you can see, is currently just gravel/dirt that is not paved. Ada County Highway District has a policy that if it is a rezone or annexation they cannot make a property owner construct the improvements, if it is only a rezone or annexation. Only if it is a Development Application. So, what the Highway District has done is simply give them a list of things that if they choose to redevelop this at any time in the future - building expansion or something else that would trigger development application - then their conditions would kick in. The main one that - we went through and compared the findings