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HomeMy WebLinkAboutOctober 24, 2006 CC Minutes ..~ &.tJ~ Meridian City Council October 24, 2006 Page 11 of 67 Item 9: Item 10: Item 11: !~~. Cottswold Villaae Subdivision by Cherie A. Dalton Living Trust - 2180 East Amity Road: Continued Public Hearing from October 17,2006: PP 06-044 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 62 residential lots and 9 common lots on 20.18 acres in a proposed R-8 zone for Cottswold Villaae Subdivision by Cherie A. Dalton Living Trust - 2180 East Amity Road: Continued Public Hearing from October 17, 2006: AZ 06-044 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 19 acres from RUT to an R-4 zone for Whitebark Subdivision by Dan Wood - 2135 East Amity Road: Continued Public Hearing from October 17,2006: PP 06-046 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 48 residential lots and 8 common lots on 19 acres in a proposed R-4 zone for Whitebark Subdivision by Dan Wood - 2135 East Amity Road: De Weerd: Items 8 and 9 have been requested to continue to November 8th. I will need a motion. Rountree: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Rountree. Rountree: I move that we continue Item 8 and 9 and 10 and 11 until November 8th. Wardle: Second. De Weerd: Okay. We have them all in one big swoop. All those in favor say aye. Okay. All ayes. Motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT. Item 13: Public Hearing: M:I 06-004 Request for Modification of the Development Agreement between the City of Meridian and Valley Shepherd Church of the Nazarene to allow a residential subdivision and a church on 32.45 acres for Shepherd Creek Subdivision by Valley Shepherd Church of the Nazarene & Shepherd's Creek, LLC - 2475 South Meridian Road: Public Hearing: PP 06-040 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 55 residential, 7 common lots & 1 other lot on 32.45 acres in an R-8 zone for Shepherd Creek Subdivision by Valley Shepherd Church of the Nazarene & Shepherd's Creek, LLC - 2475 South Meridian Road: De Weerd: Okay. Items 12 and 13 are public hearings on MI 06-004 and PP 06-040. will open these two public hearings with staff comments. ~. $. M~dian City Council October 24, 2006 Page 12 of 67 Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is the Shepherd Creek project. It is located on the west side of Meridian Road approximately a half mile south of Overland. You can see it taere. It is annexed and zoned within the city. And it is surrounded by primarily R-4 developments. This is the proposed plat. The applications before you tonight are a development agreement modification and a preliminary plat. I'm going to start off with the development agreement modification. The DA is with the Nazarene Church and that was approved at the time of annexation. That development agreement allows for the construction and development of a church and a multi-purpose facility. It does not allow for the construction residences. The Comprehensive Plan designation on the property reflects that annexation and that development agreement, even though the church has not yet completed construction and the designation is public-quasi public, similar to the other churches around the city. You're now being asked to modify that agreement to allow for the residential development on the west side of this property. Similar to a request for annexation, it is at Council's discretion as to approve or deny that request for the DA modification. The preliminary plat approval is for 55 single family residential lots, seven common lots, and, then, the one church lot. All that on 32.45 acres. Twelve acres would be for the residential development and, then, 22 acres are to be retained by the Nazarene church. The applicant is proposing to set aside .78 acres or 6.5 percent of the property for open space and that would be micro paths, a tot lot, and seating area with benches. Their residential lots range in size from 5,092 square feet to 14,866 square feet. Over half, 58 percent of the lots, are smaller than 6,600 square feet. The average lot size is about 66 or 67 hundred square feet. Also, on the church -- I mean also on the site is the church. They have received conditional use approval for a 45,575 square foot facility, so -- and there are room and plans for expansion of that facility as well. Currently as proposed by the applicant there are no roadway connections from the church to the proposed residential development or the Bear Creek community. All the traffic from the church would head south through the Strada Bellissima development immediately to the south. I do have some elevations, but it's just of the tot lot, so I'll go through that later. I don't have any for the church or for the proposed residences. The Commission did recommend approval of this application to you at their September 21 st hearing. Matt Schultz and Joel Hammer spoke in favor. Kimberly Newell LeMaster and Karen McGorton testified in opposition. Also commenting was Leslie Madsen. The key issues of discussion by the Commission were the need for a collector roadway out to Meridian Road and I'll explain that in a moment. The minimum house sizes, proposed lot sizes, the transition and street sections and sidewalks between Bear Creek, Strada Bellissima, and the subject development and the traffic calming at some of the intersections. The key Commission changes to staff recommendation were to leave all lots as proposed which currently meets the R-8 designation, not the R-4 designation as proposed by staff. And, again, I'll explain that as part of the outstanding issues before Council. They did require at least a 1 ,400 square foot minimum house size in the development and they required landscaping streets and sidewalk to transition into match the existing stub streets. And now I'm going to go into the outstanding issues before City Council. There are primarily two things. One is the collector roadway and density. Okay. I'm sorry. Before I do that, I wrote outstanding issues twice on my sheet, so let me go to one more thing. We (IJlri i Mt:!ridian City Council October 24, 2006 ::! Page 13 of 67 have received quite a bit of written testimony for this project and wanted to read that at least into the minutes. Prior to the Planning and Zoning Commission we received written testimony from Troy Johnson, Tracy Tatem, Carolyn Smith, Kimberly Newell LeMaster, the Bear Creek Homeowners Association petition with approximately 234 signatures. Michael and Shannon Steege. Patrick Robinson. Since the Planning and Zoning Commission and prior to tonight's hearing we have also received written testimony from Tammy and Steve Carlson, Elizabeth Casey, Melissa and Chad Whipple, Lea McCurdio, Kelly James, Angela Kinniston. And I apologize in advance if I have butchered your name. Please forgive me. So, now moving onto the outstanding issues before Council. They basically center on the collector road and density. Let me tackle the collector road first. The conditional use approval for the church required that they be part of this plat application. That is the only reason the church is included on this plat is because it was a requirement of the conditional use. At the time the church was approved staff had questions about whether or not it would be in the best interest of the city to have a connection to Meridian Road to serve the church, as well as to serve the residents of Bear Creek and the residents of the proposed Shepherd Creek Subdivision. This is approximately the half mile mar~ and as you know our Unified Development Code allows connections at the half mile mark and it also encourages collectors as a way to funnel -- to channel traffic, so -- to arterial roadways from within the -- within the section. So, staff wanted to make sure that the City Council had the opportunity to at least comment on whether or not they wanted a collector roadway out this half mile location. Currently we have Calderwood to the north of here, but ITD has stated that that will never be signalized, because it's too close to Overland Road. So, to provide some opportunity of a signal between Overland Road and Victory Road, staff wanted to at least get this before Council to have a say in whether or not you wanted a connection there and eventually a signal. So, that's some of the background of why the church is included in this application and also why you see this road dotted in here as -- I think it's currently labeled as contested collector roadway. It was not by the choice of the applicant, it was required as part of the conditional use approval for the church. ITD has stated that they would support the collector road connecting at the half mile location and future signalization at that location as warranted and as funding allows. Staff is concerned that this may be, again, our only opportunity to get that connection and possibly signalization. There is some misconception in the written testimony that you have received that somehow we would be requiring collector road status the full length of the roadway connection going to Stoddard. It would come down Kodiak, you would make -- you turn south, you turn back north, you come through a stub street and it would connect back up with this property, but we have only ever said that we just wanted that collector status to this road somewhere on the church property and that's .just because our UDC requires that the connection to the state highway facility not have -- that it be a collector type facility. So, that's why we have called it that. We understand that it won't necessarily meet the warrants of a collector street, but we wanted to limit any access to that, because it is connecting to the highway. The surrounding property owners are opposed to the Meridian Road connection. We anticipate that you will hear a lot of testimony tonight about how the proposed residential lots need to have access to roadways that are not part of the Bear Creek Subdivision. Staff agrees that it's important for all of the properties in this half section, r.. 11.'11 ~ r~l Meridian City Council October 24,2006 Page 14 of 67 including the Bear Creek residents, Shepherd Creek residents, and the Nazarene church members to have safe travel routes. The primary direction of travel is to Meridian Road. A signalized approach to Meridian Road would provide a safe connection. Counsel may recall that this area previously was approved for a local street connection just north of what used to be the church property as part of the Kodiak Subdivision. So, originally, you'll note that the Comprehensive Plan has a small sliver of medium density residential just north of -- if you squared off the church property and that was to reflect the proposed density of the Kodiak Subdivision and that did have a connection at that half mile point. That was since purchased by the Bear Creek developer and they did a modification with the church to the property lines to create that -- to create what became -- I think it was Bear Creek Seven or something like that that they revised the original preliminary plat to reflect that additional property. Although a local street connection would have been inappropriate because of the volumes of traffic and the folks backing out while coming off of the state highway, we do feel that a collector road on the church property is appropriate. The applicant is also opposed to the collector road connection to Meridian Road. Their concerns, as previously stated, include the opposition by the neighbors and, then, cost associated with the construction of the facility. ACHD, furthermore, has specifically prohibited the connection. So, this gets very complicated. I personally went to ACHD and begged that they leave the option open, so that we can have Council make this decision again. We just felt it was important that Council have the opportunity to comment on this road connection, but they felt that they could not support the roadway connection. The original hearing -- they actually had two hearings. They had a reconsideration, so they did a second hearing. The original hearing they mostly talked about wanting one mile connections to the state facilities, rather than half mile. At the second one that wasn't so much their reasons for decisions, but they talked about access to the facility and they expressed some feelings that they felt it was too late to require this. Again, I think staff is concerned that this is -- this is our one and only opportunity. It's not too late. This is the appropriate time. Okay. Switching over to density. The applicant has proposed lots sizes consistent with the existing R-8 zoning on the property, but this property -- the Comprehensive Plan designation is public-quasi public and we did that amendment recently that said when you have got public-quasi public you need to look at the surrounding uses and the surrounding designations. Now, the property that was formerly Kodiak is shown as medium density, but that's a small portion of the property surrounding this and I can bring that Camp Plan up for you. I don't have it up right now. I forgot. But I can get it up for you. Most of the surrounding properties are designated as low density residential, so staff felt it was important to have the residential lots, even though they are zoned R-8, to have them meet the R-4 standards. The Commission disagreed with that analysis and they have recommended approval of lots consistent with the R-8, but they did put the 1 ,400 minimum house size. In summary, I think it's clear from the length of my presentation today that there are a lot of outstanding issues and unresolved issues with regard to the development of the property. Those primarily include the proposed density and, then, the connection to Highway 69 and all the complexities of that decision from ACHD to, you know, if we don't have the collector roadway currently, the church has no access even to -- to anything except through Strada Bellissima. There is no connection from the church to the proposed residential :~ ~: ~ Meridian City Council October 24, 2806 Page 15 of 67 portion of it even. So, there is a lot of issues there that are yet unresolved. All the requested approvals tonight, though, hinge on that development agreement amendment. So, if the Council feels that the issues could be better addressed at a later date, then, basically, you can deny the -- you have the same authority as you would with the original annexation. It's your choice as to whether the DA modification is in the best interest of the city. And with that I will answer any questions you may have. De Weerd: Council, any questions? Rountree: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Rountree. Rountree: Anna, would you put up the site concept. Canning: That one? There is not one that -- the only one -- Rountree: The one you flashed up first. Bird: The church. Rountree: The church. Canning: That one? Rountree: Do we have any information -- does staff have any information of what the concepts! are going to be for the remainder of the property that's been identified in the annexed piece a church? It seems to me that this one particular application and potential use has created somewhat of a fever within the neighborhood, what's going to happen when the remainder of that is going to be developed? Do we have a sense of what's going on there? I' Canning: No, sir. Rountree: And what kind of transportation network, circulation network that might be proposed, what kind of accesses might need to be required? De Weerd: Mr. Rountree, they do have a representative here tonight. Rountree: I just wondered if staff had that. Canning: No. The only thing we have right now is the one access drive that comes down and connects to a stub street in Strada Sellissima and you can see that picks up right here and, then, they could either go out -- this is a right-in, right-out facility to Meridian Road currently or they can come through this residential portion, actually, of ~i tl.. Meridian City Council Octobw 24, 2006 Page 16 of 67 Strada Bellissima and, then, make their way out to the light at Victory. And that's the only thing we have right now. Rountree: Thank you. De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions from Council? Bird: Not at this time, Mayor. De Weerd: Okay. This is a Public Hearing. We will ask the applicant to give a presentation on this. He will be allowed ten minutes. We also have the church here on hand as well. They will also be given ten minutes. If the subdivision Bear Creek has a spokesperson, that spokesperson will also be given ten minutes. So, then, any additional testimony after that are minutes in length and we will start with the applicant. Schultz: Good evening, Mayor and Council. My name is Matt Schultz with RlvlR Consulting, 2127 South Alaska Way in the Bear Creek Subdivision is where I reside and also I'm representing the applicant. It is a joint application of the Valley Shepherd Church of the Nazarene, as well as Shepherd's Creek, LLC. There is a lot to cover in ten minutes, so I will try to do my best to get through it. Just by way of introduction, I have also been involved with Bear Creek Subdivision for the last six years as a project manager. I haven't been working for them for the last couple, but I live there, I have watched every house get built, I have built a couple of stub streets, I have been here for three revised preliminary plats on Bear Creek and so I feel like I have a lot of history on this to maybe add to your decision and I know Mr. Bird and Mayor de Weerd were here as well and -- De Weerd: We saw you a lot. " Schultz: Probably more than you liked. De Weerd: Well, I wasn't going to add that. Schultz: Okay. Thanks. If I could just start with the overall map, just to give you some background. Here is the 20 acres that the church has retained. Back in February they obtained a staff level approval to divide off 12 acres, essentially move the lot line that was here to here and create a 12 acre parcel zoned R-8 with a development agreement. We acknowledge that that development agreement gives you full latitude. We aren't hanging our hat that we deserve R-8. We are here tonight to show that we -- it is appropriate. But it was -- that was approved in February and subsequently the CUP fo~.: the church was approved. I think the next day. And it went to auction and this was put out to the highest bidder to help the church build their new facility. And subsequent to that I was retained as a consultant to help with this approval process. So, we have been working on it for several months, knowing going in it would be a challenge, because we are the last -- we are the last piece of the puzzle in this area and it's always tough coming in last when everybody is -- when you're surrounded. But I did add in the ~ ~ Meridian City Council October 24, 2006 Page 17 of 67 recently approved Bear Creek West, so everybody could see how that fits in. It's very important to show how that fits in. We have approximately between -- Elk Run, which was done in the mid '90s at Calderwood, which is a collector. Bear Creek, which was done between the year 2000 and they have got one more lot to do -- or two more lots up here, so it's been ongoing for the last six years. Strada Bellissima has come in in the last year or two. There is 555 lots out here right now in this half section. We have a mid mile collector called Stoddard Road. We have Kodiak that's proposed as a mid mile to the quarter mile collector passed the future middle school, Idaho Power, mini storage. There is a community park that's a city -- the city helped put in there. In fact, it is maintained by the city. It's an 18 acre park. So, I wanted to show that there is just over a thousand lots existing or proposed in this section today. Essentially, the section will be built out. There is some existing homes and some stuff that will go probably commercial along Overland, but this is the last piece of the puzzle in this section. Some of the big traffic issues -- obviously, Meridian Road is heavily traveled today. It's overloaded. Everybody in the south end of the valley comes down Meridian Road. Fortunately, Locust Grove overpass is going to get built we hope sometime soon, right? It's been several years, but we hope sometime soon. De Weerd: The bid's been awarded. Schultz: Good. Good to hear. It's been a long time. Hey, I'll tell you what, this signal is going in any day. This was moved up a couple years. ACHD -- and it's very very needed. I think there was an accident yesterday there. So, there is a signal going in at Victory, which is good news. They are widening Overland next year with a signal at Stoddard, which is great news. Ten rvfile overpass -- Ten Mile Interchange is just over here another mile. Linder overpass someday. Meridian intersection is getting upgraded hopefully starting next year. So, there is a lot of things coming to help our current bad traffic situation. So, I wanted to start with that overview of where we are at and how we fit into the pieces of the puzzle out here. Can you go to the next slide, please, Anna? The church set aside 12 -- exactly 12 acres for sale. They didn't work with the developer and say here -- what would work for you, let's sell it to you, they said 12 acres exactly. They set that aside and everybody went into the auction knowing that there was an R-8 on it. These days R-8 can be done appropriately. It's not a highly dense -- as long as you're looking at the surrounding neighbors. Bear Creek Six was done at about three and a half to the acre. That was a revised preliminary plat. They did buy the piece that was the Denali plat. I remember that getting denied, because I showed up to help get it denied, because they had a very narrow piece of property, they had some really narrow lots, and that got turned down, so they negotiated with them, bought that, added on those lots at Bear Creek, it came in at an R-8, but it was, admittedly, a very low density R-8. This was done at about three to the acre. Overall it's about 2.6 to the acre in this section. When we add our 55 lots it goes to 2.7 to the acre in the section. Right now there is Strada Bellissima. They coordinated with the church. This shares a property line and ITD at the time -- ITD said, look, we will let you share this right-in, right-out, but that's the only access you get. We won't let you have one at the mid mile. And this was two years ago. So, they said if you do this, this is the only access you get. The church property was approved at Planning Commission level only ~; ~.....' Meridian City Council i) October 24, 2006 Page 18 of 67 back in February, using this access and using this to get out. That's what was approved and they are under construction. I don't know if you have been by there lately, but they are well under construction. It's impressive what they have got going on with the building. And what the 12 acres had is three accesses. Not one, not two, but three, which is exceptional. You know, one access would have handled the traffic, two would have been more than enough, three is exceptional to disperse the traffic. We are saying the majority of the traffic is probably going to come out to Victory Road and not go back through Bear Creek. But some will, but it's all well within the limits of ACHD and we have studied it, this 12 acres keeps -- the traffic is well within those limits today and even when Bear Creek West comes it's well within limits, even if they convert Calderwood to a right-in, right-out, which is going to be -- which they could do, we'd still be within the limits of the traffic. There is no justification for the collector from a technical standpoint. If you can go to the next slide, please, Anna. One more, please. Thanks. So, when we looked at laying this site out we put -- this thing's kind of -- got my backup here. These R-4 lots, 14,000, 9,000, 8,000. We are kind of limited on depth from what we bought. It's a hundred acres -- I mean, excuse me, 100 feet, 50 feet, 100 feet, 1 00 feet, 50 feet, 97 feet. We didn't have the luxury of depth in those lots, so what it comes down to is what width do you want on those lots. To meet the R-8 we did 80 foot wide lots. We felt it appropriate to do a nice mix, a nice transition of the eight thousands, seven thousands, we have some fives and six thousands, then, we go to 5,200s backing up to the church. It's not shown on here, but Planning Commission caught it and we didn't catch it, there is some detached sidewalk that we are going to transition in here and here. It was attached up here. Our open space -- ifs hard to believe, but if you take the park away from Bear Creek, this is the biggest usable common lot between Elk Run, Strada Bellissima, and Bear Creek. We are putting a playground in it, we got a pathway, we can get a pathway connected to the church and I think it's important to point out that the church is on five acres, their building and their parking lot. There is another seven and a half acres north that they want to keep open space forever. There is another seven and a half acres south that they don't know what they are going to do with, honestly. And they can speak to that. But that's -- even if they -- they did something with the seven and a half, that seven and a half acres would be -- well, you know, 30 percent of their 20 acres -- just an exceptional amount of open space that we have with this church. So, I think it's important to consider both. The density that we have in this area is around three to the acre -- three and a half to the acre, which is consistent with Bear Creek Eight, on seven of the acres. On five of the acres we actually go to six to the acre, but the blended average is four and a half, which is just over the R-4 limit of four to the acre. We really feel like we have done a good job of transitioning the lots, mixing the lots, then, the Planning Commission added that they would like to see the R-4 minimum home size of 1 ,400 square feet. We said that's what we were planning anyway. So, that was totally appropriate. So, we don't feel like we are -- we could have got 66 lots in here, if we would have went for a full blown R-8. An R-4 would have been about 43 lots. We are right in the middle. We are at 55 lots. We are right -- we kind of balanced it out. And we think it's a great blend of lots. And our open space meets all requirements. I'm trying to cover a lot real fast as you can tell, but, you know, ten minutes is tough to squeeze all this in, but it's -- I really want to talk about the fact that this is consistent with several subdivisions that have been approved, ~ ~ Meridian City Council October 24, 2006 Page 19 of 67 Tuscany Village, Sutherland Farms, Woodbridge, Messina Meadows, Bear Creek West, Tanana Valley, Reflection Ridge, Jayden Village, Soda Springs -- they all have this same -- this same density and same mix of lot sizes and it is appropriate. De Weerd: Okay. You will need to wrap your remarks up. Summarize, please. Schultz: I want to summarize and say that -- and hold some for rebuttal, because I'm sure I will have plenty -- that this is appropriate, we are not hanging our hat on the R-8. We think R-8 is appropriate and this area is a transition to the church. We think that the collector is not appropriate. There are no warrants. This is the last phase, not the first, and we would ask for your approval without the collector as submitted and I'll stand for any questions. De Weerd: Council, any questions? Rountree: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Rountree. Rountree: It will be for Matt and Anna probably both, but if this were approved, what's the barrier between the residential and the church parking and potentially future commercial? Schultz: Can you go back to the overall preliminary plat? There. Canning: That works a little better. Schultz: Got it. I measured this earlier today. There is, actually, about 100 feet from here to here from the back of the lots to this drainage swale that's probably 30, 40 feet wide into the parking lot. If this ever redeveloped they would have to come back through for a revised development agreement and provide appropriate buffers at that time. Right now there is plenty of buffer in here of 100 feet plus. Rountree: Madam Mayor, follow up. Are you proposing a fence? Schultz: What we are proposing -- there is existing six foot vinyl until you get up to this exiting two acre lot. We will fill in with six foot. There is already six foot here and we put six foot there. We will fill in the gap with six foot vinyl fence. Rountree: Thank you. De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions from Council? Bird: I have none, Mayor. De Weerd: Okay. We will invite you back up at the end for a five minute rebuttal. ~~' ~ Mbridian City Council October 24, 2006 Page 20 of 67 Schultz: Thank you. De Weerd: Okay. Is the church representative here? If you will, please, state your name for the record. Johnson: Thank you. My name is Dennis Johnson, I live at 4888 River Vista Place. That's in Garden City, Idaho. And I would like to note that I have been a member of the Valley Shepherd Church of the Nazarene here in Meridian for 27 years. Even though we have lived there, we have gone to church here and have been members since 1979, my wife and I have. And so all of our years here in the valley we have really gone to this church and been members of that church. I have been asked tonight to speak on behalf of the church and I know -- I know most all of you very well, because I not only have gone to this church for many years, but about seven years ago we made a decision to move our business, United Heritage, from Nampa to Meridian, and I want to, if I have not had a chance to do this publicly, thank all of you for the cooperation you gave us in that process and also all of you who are on staff, because you are very -- excuse me -- very very helpful in that process and so I appreciate the chance to do that. It's not often that I stand before city councils or anybody, for that matter. My father is currently the pastor of the church and he suggested I dust off my law license and I come and represent the church tonight pro bono and certainly that is what I am doing. De Weerd: Well, congratulations. Johnson: And I'm happy to do that. But, in any event, I just want to reflect on the fact that this church, Valley Shepherd Church of the Nazarene, has been in this community for 90 years. It has been here on the corner of Pine and Meridian Road for I believe all of those years -- most of those years and, in fact, that's the 90 out of the 113 year existence of the City of Meridian and there has been a wonderful partnership in Meridian between Meridian and the business community and ~eridian and the faith community. I know you have just had a function with the faith community, Mayor, and we appreciate it so very much. And in this case I'll just point out there has been a wonderful partnership between this City Hall property and the Valley Shepherd Church of the Nazarene in terms of sharing parking and we have appreciated that over the years and one of the reasons the church is moving out there is because of its growth and its need for additional parking and I know that you're expanding your facilities as well. But we want to thank you for the privilege we have had of sharing parking with you over the years. It has been a wonderful partnership and we appreciate it very very much. Well, I would like to reflect also on the property that is before you. It was about 11 years ago that our congregation bought this property. It was 32 acres at the time, it seemed like a pretty good deal at the time and turned out to be a pretty good deal at the time. It has been a terrific property for this congregation to consider to expand to. Thirty-two acres is what was available, 32 acres is what was bought. As you heard from the developer that we have sold 12 of the acres to, a decision was made to sell 12 acres, nothing more, nothing less. And the reason for that is because the church felt it needed 20 acres. When you hear today elementary schools want 20 acres, high f! ~ Meridian City Council October 24, 2006 Page 21 of 67 \~ schools want 40 acres, why do they want that amount of space? Well, this church wants that amount of space so that it can grow, so it can have future expansion, and so it can truly be a beacon in this community. The church that is being built, reference has been made to it. You have seen it as it is going up. It is truly going to be a cathedral type church. This is going to be a wonderful wonderful entry to the southern part -- to the southern part of Meridian and I think you're going to find that it is just a beautiful beacon as people come into this city. It is the same architect who -- Peter Rockwell, who did the Catholic Church on the corner of Meridian and Chinden and that that also is a beautiful beautiful faith community as you come into this community and this was no accident that he was chosen. There was a competition between architects to come up with a beautiful design and three architects competed and this is the architect that was chosen and he was chosen because of the design and because of beautiful that it will add to this community and I think it will be a tremendous addition to that entire part of the city, including Bear Creek, which I recall when I first started going to church here, was not there. And, in fact, I don't know how much of it was there when we bought our property originally. Well, the real issue, as you have heard from Planning and Zoning, has to do with this road with this street that is coming in or this -- what is called a connector and I want to point out that I got involved in this about a week ago and I have gone back and I have read every public document that I can find. I have read all the transcripts of the Ada County Highway District hearings, I have read the transcripts from Planning and Zoning, I have looked at all of them and it seems to me that one of the issues is there is some question about the definition of a connector and whether this is really a connector. And I also understand that there has been some -- that there has been some change to the rt1eridian Comprehensive Plan that calls for these types of connectors at every half mile point and the observation I have is that it appears to be that this may be a case in which we are trying to make one size fit all. We are trying to put in half mile connectors, whether it's the right place of not, no matter what, because that's in a change in the Comprehensive Plan. I think it is the change to that Comprehensive Plan that is difficult for the Ada County Highway District to understand. They call it -- they use the term retrofitting and that it is an attempt to retrofit something. And so I really question whether or not this is the right place to do this, although I think the attempt to have connectors is laudable and it is something that is certainly desirable and we certainly understand the need for that. And the Ada County Highway District seems to have a real problem with this as well and there is constant reference to Eagle Road and we have all been on Eagle Road and we all know the difficulty of getting down Eagle Road and what this would call!~ for eventually is another stop light here between Victory and Overland and that I suggest to you is going to create a bottleneck and you have a lot of traffic that is going from Meridian out to Kuna and back, everybody to the freeway, to get to the jobs. And we suggest to you that this is not only not good for the church and maybe not good for the developer, but it is also not good in terms of moving traffic through this valley and taking traffic down that major highway to start putting lights in that middle mile. And we are delighted that there is a light going in at Victory and that there is a light at Overland. I recall when we were moving our business here that we did not have a light off the freeway exit coming overtJrom Nampa and, Mayor and Mr. Bird, you may remember that we as a company suggested that we needed a light there and, in fact, we volunteered that we would help pay for that light !! i Meridian City Council October 24,2006 Page 22 of 67 and we did help pay for the light. So, I understand the need for lights and, frankly, have been involved in helping pay for lights and if we felt this was the right thing, we would raise our hand and do that, but we don't think this is the right place to put this light. Consequently, there is one additional item that we think we should point out and that is as you talk about the use of the property -- and I know that Mr. Rountree has asked what's the use of the additional property. I want to talk about something that is not in the record and I have asked some of the church members why is it not in the record and it has to do with the use of the property on the north side and I'm going to point -- if this works and, if not, I'm going to use my own. De Weerd: It's a good thing you guys come prepared. Johnson: Right up here. Right up here. There is no record on what the church has planned here and so I'm going to tell you what it has planned and I have a couple of documents to also submit regarding that plan. Maybe I can give those. I understand maybe these can be shown on an overhead if I give these to someone. Because when the -- when the church asked me to speak they said, you know, there is something we plan doing there and that is they plan on putting park facilities in there and the park facilities -- in fact, they have talked to church members about donating money to help II build that park. But up here -- and you're going to see on one of the drawings that I have submitted -- actually, right in the middle of the proposed road there is a gigantic tree. It's a basswood tree and what you're going to see -- the documents I'm submitting tp you on behalf of the church and the three documents, that tree has been designated I think as the largest basswood tree in Idaho, maybe one of the largest in the United States, and it's right in the middle of where this road would go and it needs to be protected and it can't be moved and we are suggesting that that be made into a park and, frankly, the church is suggesting it be made into a park and certainly everybody would have access to that facility, but the church would be paying for that. And another reason why it's not a good idea to start putting a road in there or something we call a collector that I'm not sure that when a road goes like this and like this and like this and all the way through Bear Creek, that that truly meets the definition of a collector. Consequently, we would suggest -- and we will see if we get those -- get this item up. If we don't, I'm going to ask that perhaps Council can look at those before it makes its decision today, but you will see exactly what we are talking about in terms of how that is. We believe that we have appropriate access. This is the north part of the property and that's the tree right there. And so you will see where the -- where the proposed road goes and that's where that large tree is located. If we can go to the next document, we might -- we might find the certificate on it. We will see. The certificate is signed by -- by professors at the University of Idaho. Here it is. Idaho big tree. Valley Shepherd Church is the owner and protector of the following Idaho champion big tree. As of this date the largest of its kind recorded in Idaho. American basswood. And we have these Ph.D.'s from the College of Natural Resources at U of I who stated that. And that's right in that location, therefore, I suggest to you another good reason not to be putting a road there. Finally, I will just say that we certainly appreciate the opportunity to address you tonight. I was at a luncheon yesterday where a very fine author has written a new book about Abraham Lincoln and in her book she points out ~ ~.II Meridian City Council October 24, 2006 Page 23 of 67 that Abraham Lincoln was one to say that sometimes he changed his mind and reporters would ask him why did you change your opinion about a certain subject and he would answer and he would say, you know, I would like to think 11m wiser today than I was yesterday. And I think with some of the information youlre going to have tonight, we can all look together and nobodyls made a mistake in a recommendation or what they have done, but I think that after we have all of this information we are all going to be able to say we are wiser today than we were yesterday in helping make this decision. Thank you very much. I will stand for any questions. De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions? Bird: I have none. De Weerd: Okay. Thank you very much. Johnson: Thank you. De Weerd: Okay. Does the Bear Creek Subdivision have a spokesperson? Okay. Seeing none, I do have some people who have signed up to testify and before I call those we did receive a number of e-mails today and I will just read the last names. Van Hall. Jagosh. And I apologize if I just mutilated that name. Ortega. Anders. Tennison. And Perkins. Sapps. Hunnicutt. McBride. And the other ones were already called into the record. So, with that said, I do have -- if when I call your name I will also indicate if youlre for or against. If you would like to provide testimony, please, come forward at that time. Harold Cluff signed up against. And you will have three minutes. If you will, please, state your name and address. Cluff: Good evening,'Madam Mayor and Members of the Council and staff. My name is Harold Cluff and I reside at 650 West Kodiak Drive in Bear Creek here in Meridian. De Weerd: Thank you. Cluff: I first want to thank you for the opportunity of saying something this evening and I read your sign about concise remarks, but being of the old school, I have a short story that will illustrate what I want to put across this evening. In the late 1800s my grandfather and some of his associates herded cattle in Southwestern Wyoming. Once a month they were given their paycheck and they all went into Laramie where theyld get a hot bath, good meal, and, then, go to the local saloon for some entertainment. On one of these occasions Eli met a young lady there by the name of Miss Katie. She had the most beautiful red flowing hair that he had ever seen. She was the lead singer and dancer in the chorus line. Her teeth were as white as pearls and just as straight as they could be and sing, oh, how she could sing. After the performance was over Eli invited her to come to their table. And before an hour was up Eli asked her to marry him and to everyonels surprise she said yes. The next morning in their hotel room as Eli began to wake up, he looked across at the nightstand and there he saw that beautiful flowing red hair resting on a wig stand. Now, if that wasnlt enough, next to it was a glass of water ~ ~ Meridian City Council October 24, 2(i16 Page 24 of 67 that contained those beautiful straight white teeth. As his bride began to wake up, he said: Sing. For heaven's sakes sing. Well, let me go on. Over ten years ago I retired as a 747 captain flying international routes for Northwest Airlines. Because my trips were 11 and 15 days long, I also received 15 and sometimes 30 days off between trips. To utilize this time, I developed two companies in the east valley next to Phoenix. One was the H.F. Cluff Development Company. The other was H&E Home Builders. I mention this only to let you know that I have some experience in the problems we are talking about. Is that on already? De Weerd: Already we need you to summarize. Cluff: I will summarize. Now that I see the changes that are trying to take place in the high density zoning and the changes to Bear Creek, the road, I find myself in the same position as Eli as I say to you as a Council: Sing, for heaven's sake sing. Let something be real like it was when we first bought that property. Thank you for your time. De Weerd: Thank you, sir. Cluff: Oh, I have a letter from a neighbor that asked me to hand deliver it to you. De Weerd: Thank you. Mrs. Smith, can you, please, read the name into the record? Smith: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. This letter is written by Amanda Olsen, who lives in Bear Creek. De Weerd: Okay. Thank you, sir. Brian Forney signed up against. Good evening. If you will, please, state your name and address. Forney: rvfy name is Brian Forney and I reside a 645 West Kodiak Drive in Meridian. De Weerd: Thank you. Forney: Madam Mayor, Councilmembers, three minutes isn't very long, so I'll -- I'll leave the statements about density and property value and all that to my neighbors. I'm sure they can cover that. I imagine you will be hearing that. But I have a unique perspective. I work from home. I have an upstairs office and it looks down on the end of one of the many walking trails in the Bear Creek neighborhood and what I see from my office is children, parents, dog walkers, old people, sometimes with bikes pulling little ones behind but they are coming down the trail and they are going to the park and, then, later they come back from the park. There is a big stream of people that use those trails to go to the park. So, what I want to talk about is intersections that don't really show up on your map, the intersections between the pedestrian' traffic and the roadways, and specifically I want to limit my comments to the collector road. As I watch the children cross they don't always look, they don't always even stop, but it works -- you wouldn't think it would, but it does in our neighborhood, because the cars drive slowly. Our ~ a Meridian City Council October 24, 2006 Page 25 of 67 street doesn't really go anywhere. Everyone on it is either a neighbor or someone visiting a neighbor. It's amazing how controlled people are. My concern is if we decide to put a collector road -- or let me be more clear. A through road from the arterial -- from the one mile grid roads through our neighborhood, that that will bring our children in contact with a different type of driver, someone who uses that road just because it will save them a minute to two. The only reason that person is in our neighborhood is because it's faster. So, that's my concern. My concern is -- and I would urge the Council not to put the collector through. The neighborhood really is built up. The walking paths are in place. They are not at corners. They are heavily used and they are used by children. Putting a through road through with all of the traffic pressure we have would cause an undue danger to the people who use those walkways. I would also like to point out that within our one mile grid we have the half mile road at Stoddard. It connects to the mile roads at Victory and Overland and it can easily take the traffic around our neighborhood without putting our children in danger. Thank you. De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Andrea Puopolo. I'm sorry. Sign up against. If you would like to provide testimony you will need to come up. Okay. We do have you on the record as being against. Okay. Tammy Carlton signed up against. I'm sorry, either you come to the microphone or we just record your -- and I think we have a letter from you as well? Carlton: Yes. De Weerd: Okay. If you will, please, state your name and address for the record. Carlton: I'm Tammy Carlton. My address is 320 West Cub. De Weerd: Thank you. Carlton: I'm brand new to this subdivision. We just moved in three weeks ago. And we came from Kuna. I would like to say to you in Meridian that we are so happy with the warm family feeling that we get from Meridian. That was something that we were scared about leaving in Kuna, because it is very family centered, but I think it's really helped to move to Bear Creek, because as the gentleman said, it is highly family centered. And I would just ask you to make sure that you're making the right decision and thinking about the children that are on these streets. If you have been there at 4:00 p.m., the amount of children is immense and I don't completely know all the structure of the streets yet, because I am new, but I just really hope that you're looking at the effects of this road and potentially where traffic is going to go. The paper that came to our home showed a road pretty much dividing our subdivision in half, starting at Meridian Road and coming down and, then, making a 90 degree turn on and I don't know if this is actually true, because it was pointed out that perhaps it is not meant to go completely through our subdivision, but it is very disturbing to me that perhaps it could make that 90 degree turn onto Cub, which is two houses away from where I live, and, then, make another 90 degree turn onto Kodiak and. I don't think that we should be making a half mile road go through the subdivision. It wasn't built for that and it -- certainly the ,~ ~ a ~ ltIeridian City Council Octob.. 24, 2Ci06 Page 26 of 67 children cannot have that all of a sudden brought to them. They are not used to it. Thank you very much for this attention. It really looks like this is being addressed appropriately. Thank you. De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. I have a group that is signed up together. Ivy Smith, Jessica Cason, Hailey Cason, and Carolyn Smith signed up against. Okay. They will need to speak into the microphone. You can pull that down. Yes. Thank you. You will need to, again, read names into the record and give an address. Thank you. I. Smith: My name is Ivy Smith and I live at 2715 South Hibernation Place in Bear Creek. Cason: My name is Jessica Cason and I live at 2893 South Denali Way, Bear Creek. H. Cason: My name is Hailey Cason and I live at 2893 South Denali Way, Bear Creek. C. Smith: We love to go the Bear Creek Park. Currently our parents let us go by ourselves, because there is not much traffic and those who do live there go very slow, because they care about keeping the kids of the community safe. J. Cason: There is no other way for us to get to the park but to cross Kodiak. The street that may become a collector road, our parents expect this road to get quite busy once the middle school is put in as the collector road will lead directly to the school. I. Smith: If you allow Kodiak to become a collector street, our parents will not allow us to walk to the park alone anymore. We know what that means. We will hardly be able to go, because our parents will be too busy to take us. Plus I'm nervous about crossing a busy street anyway. It just doesn't make sense to put a collector street right smack next to a park where lots of kids play when there are other choices available. Please don't allow this to happen. Thank you. De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Well, you know, I'll really have to -- we don't get very many young people testifying in front of us and so because I have -- I run the meeting, I get to do whatever I want and so I would like to present the three of you with City of Meridian pins. If you guys will come up and get those. I must say, we have been very impressed with how they have behaved during the meeting tonight and thank you so much for your testimony. Okay. We have Ray Schild who has signed up for. I'm sorry, you cannot comment off the record. You need to be on the record. So, if you would like to comment, I would invite you forward. Okay. Thank you, sir. You are on the record as for, though. Okay. Kevin Borger. You can adjust the mike. I don't think you're that short. Borger: Kevin Borger, 169 West Cub Street. And that's in Bear Creek, Meridian, Idaho. I was hoping Ray would follow the kids, so I didn't have to. They gave a very good presentation. My purpose in being here is a lot more selfish than theirs. This picture is from my back patio. You can see the church structure going up there. They have . C~ r; Meridian City Council October 24, 2006 Page 27 of 67 assured me that the dirt piles will be moved and I will have the access to the church that I intended when I bought the property, since I do attend Valley Shepherd and we look very much forward to being in close proximity. If I could have the next slide, please. Next picture. If you can look at that, that's also from my patio out to Meridian highway. The point being the elevations are such that should you decide a road is appropriate, I will be the fortunate recipient of every headlight that turns off of that road. My house is designed, obviously, as most people's is, so that the bedroom and living quarters are at the backside of the house and the elevation just can't be changed. This is telescoped in a little bit. You can see the -- all trees there where it's -- they intend to use as a park. The cars going across there. And the next one is a -- my attempt to try to show the headlights as they zoom passed on the highway there. But you can see the elevation that the lights will be visible from my back patio and, obviously, my bedroom windows. I talked to one of the planners and he assured me that, well, there is going to be a buffer that's going to be 12 feet from my fence to the road and, Mr. Bird, that's less than a false start away from my back fence and that's just not very much. And so I think what I'm trying to say is obvious, that if the road goes in there, either it's needed because of all the traffic, which means every one of those cars will come right by my back fence into my window or it's not needed and let's just not put it in, so I don't have to deal with that. Thank you. De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Those were the names that signed up to testify. Is there anyone else who would like to provide testimony on this application? Okay. If not, we would ask the applicant to come up to have wrap-up remarks. You have five minutes. Schultz: Thank you, Mayor and Council. Matt Schultz, 2127 Alaska. There is really not a whole lot to rebut. I think the testimony was very light on the density. People don't like something different than them. We do have some lots smaller than what Bear Creek is. But the reason we put those in there was to have a good mix of prices -- in fact, there was some church members that said -- they are older retired that said are you going to have any patio homes? I said, well, we can try. And thafs what we are doing. We are trying to give some patio homes back up against the church and that's the only reason we are getting our density over four and we are just -- just four and a half. So, I think the density is -- I hope a minor issue. The bigger issue being the collector road, which it's fairly unanimous that even if it didn't provide an adverse impact to a relatively small site like ours and the church's, it is unnecessarily carving up the church property and, then, you infer from all the Bear Creek neighbors that they are very worried about that going in and I am, too, as a neighbor. I walk out there with my son and we enjoy the interconnectivity and, then, it's quiet. And with the 55 lots it's still going to be quiet. You put that road through there, it's not going to be quiet anymore. You know, the middle school and the park site cut through. I have been saying that for months. We are going to get cut through. It may not happen overnight, but over time people are going to learn that that's a cut through and they are going to use it more and more and more and they are not going to -- like was said -- there was some really good points that were said better than I could have made them as the reasons against the collector. The people that are going to use that road aren't going to care as much and, you know, they are right, they are just not going to care as much. I had a kid run out in ~ ~ Mwidian City Council October 24, 200. Page 28 of 67 front of me the other day in Bear Creek, but, fortunately, I was driving slow and I was able to stop and he wasnlt looking, but it was all right. Itls what we have to watch out for and teach are kids not to play in the road if we can do that. Really, what we proposing here is something that fits. Ifs something thatls consistent with what Meridian has approved in other areas. Itls a good mix. We are going to have a tough time keeping our home prices under 300,000, even on the smaller lots. Itls just kind of where things are at right now. We have got a high end product, we have got good amenities, weld like to -- we have a traffic study that was done after Planning Commission, because one of the reasons, in my opinion, Planning Commission did nit squash the collector as well was staff brought up what if in 30 years ITD comes back and does a right-in, right-out here? What if? We are surely going to need that collector. And so we went back to our -- Mr. Funkhouser, who is our well respected traffic consultant, who tells us the straight truth, he doesnlt make up any numbers, he ran the numbers, then, itls still fine. You know, there is no what if. In a hundred years itls still going to work great. So, I think we just want to make the collector go away once and for all, let our neighbors rest easy at night that they still have the same neighborhood they bought into and I guess with that we will ask for your approval. De Weerd: Okay. Council, questions? Rountree: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Rountree. Rountree: Since Matt somewhat testified for Mr. Funkhouser and I see him in the back of the room -- Schultz: Have him get up here? Rountree: -- maybe have a few minutes with him. Schultz: Great. Thanks. I called him up and I said get down here. He will be up earlier than we thought. Rountree: Well, youlre paying for him, he may as well say something. Funkhouser: Gary Funkhouser, traffic consultant with Stanley Consultants at 1940 South Bonito Way in Meridian. 1111 stand for questions. Rountree: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Rountree. Rountree: Gary, Matt indicated you had done a traffic analysis. Give me the 30 second rundown of your -- ~ ~ Meridian City Council October 24,2006 Page 29 of 67 t: Funkhouser: We have, actually, done a couple of them for them, because they were concerned themselves as to whether they needed a collector road out of there. So, we counted every intersection around this site to find out which way the traffic is going and how much traffic it was at each one of these intersections and, then, we took the vacant lots and did the projections for the ones that are in the south and that's the Strada Sellissima and the church and the residential of 55 lots and, then, distribute them out to the network to see whether the roadways would violate ACHD guidelines and none of them would. In the collector roadway in itself, again, one reason ACHD didn't like it was they talked about retro fit. In other words, the time to plan a roadway through this area would have been when Bear Creek came in originally, because if you look at it, as everybody's pointed out, what would be the collector roadway is Kodiak, is all front-on lots and it would become a cut through for a junior high or they talk about the redevelopment off of Edmonds and Roslyn where they would bring a new road out there. We don't know what would go in there, whether it be residential or commercial, and you have some 300 lots on the other side of Bear Creek that would use this to cut through to get to -- if there is commercial or whatever on the other side, so -- and they said, well, what happens when the state comes through and makes those right-in, right- outs. So, we looked at that situation. Stoddard is the collector roadway. It actually starts and goes only one mile, because there is no way it's going to go across the interstate and it runs into commercial. It can't go south, because there is already development to the south. So, it's just a short street in there. So, it isn't going to pick up future traffic 30 years down the road. So, we had Compass look at what traffic is going to be in the area. Thirty years from now you will have about 23,000 cars a day on Victory, you're going to have 30,000 cars a day on Overland. You will have a signal very shortly up on Stoddard. Some of the neighbors before were worried about back up now. Well, that's going to be solved with the widening. And the maximum vehicular movement out of this area we see is going to be somewhere around 5,500 up there in the north and about 2,500 in the south, which is way below ACHD's guidelines for collector roadways on the north-south. If you open that up in the middle you run the risk of exceeding their thousand limit on those residential roadways that are in the middle there. The church has testified that they are satisfied with their access and so the conclusion was the only reason would be for it to warrant a traffic signal at sometime in the future, if the other side develops, it could warrant a traffic signal by itself. When you do traffic signal warrants for a minor roadway, you only look at one side, you don't look at both, and since the state does allow signals at the half mile point, you can actually put a signal in as a systems warrant. In other words, to keep the traffic platooned. So, there is a number of warrants that could be met without having to have the volumes. So, the final conclusion was that a collector roadway it really isn't necessary to serve this whole area in here. !:f De Weerd: Okay. Funkhouser: Thank you. De Weerd: Anything else, Council? ~ ~lfi Mt!ridian City Council October 24, 2iOi Page 30 of 67 Bird: I have none. De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Okay. Anything final from Council? Generally not, but, Council, would you like some rebuttal by the church? Rountree: I have no problem with comments. De Weerd: Okay. And since you have your attorney hat on, I will give you two minutes. No. I -- you can have -- Johnson: Thank you, Mayor. Rebuttal by a church almost sounds anti-religious anyway, so I better put my attorney hat on. Well, thank you and I just on behalf of the church want to thank all of you and the neighbors and those on staff for letting us be here tonight. Just three points I want to make quickly. One is I know that I read in some of the testimony in Planning and Zoning some concern about safety, getting fire trucks and police cars to this part or even other parts of Bear Creek. Our church is open, too, and is working on the possibility of some sort of unique cross-through or easement for fire and public safety. So, that shouldn't be an issue and that shouldn't be something that would bootstrap us into having to do this. We talk about a traffic light. Just with my experience for our business, having helped buy a traffic light -- and we hear it's the last chance, I always try to -- try to figure out what's being said and what isn't being said, and I will tell you the church has some concern that when we hear of last chance and traffic lights and roads, that, then, the next step is who is going to pay for that and the suggestion that maybe the church is going to be required to pay for a traffic light that could cost five or six hundred thousand dollars and pay for a roadway and I just want to say that, because nobody's talked about that and nobody's talked about who pays for it, but I think it's something that needs to be mentioned. And the final thing I want to say -- and I'm going to put a different hat on, Mayor. Last year, as you know, I have acted as chairman of the Boise Metro Chamber of Commerce and we have talked repeatedly about regional cooperation and it seems to me when the Ada County Highway District has one hearing, has another hearing, has input from Planning and Zoning and says, no, we do not want to put a light in the middle of this major traffic way and we talk about regional cooperation between our cities, our highway district, and our transportation folks -- and, by the way, at one time ITD said, no, they didn't want it and, of course, we got a change in leadership there and now they say it would be okay. I suggest just for regional cooperation it would be a good idea to pay attention to the county highway district and not put it in there. Thank you very much. De Weerd: Thank you. Any questions for Mr. Johnson? Rountree: I have none. De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Okay. Is there any final words out there? Seeing none, Council, any further information needed? Rountree: I have none. ~ :Q: ~ Mwidian City Council October 24, 2006 Page 31 of 67 Bird: I have none. ",; De Weerd: Staff? Canning: Madam Mayor, rvfembers of the Council -- De Weerd: Just remember no new testimony. Canning: I know. Just that the reason we just always wanted you to be able to make the decision on the collector roadway, but if you decide not to require that, there is an issue that was raised by staff and, then, just raised by the church and that's secondary access from the church. Right now they have one way out through to a light and that is through Strada Bellissima and if you could address if you want some sort of connection to the proposed stub street or the required stub street, actually, from the church parking lot to that. We have not seen any negotiations for secondary access to the fire department. I think the church representative just mentioned that they were working on it, but we -- that is not part of this proposal at this time. De Weerd: Okay. Matt, do you want to comment? Schultz: Thank you, Mayor and Council. Matt Schultz. We have not had direct communications with the fire department, but if Anna can -- can you go to the landscape plan, please. Thanks. We have been showing since day one -- and it says right here fire access, pedestrian path. This would connect to the church parking lot. We have shown, knowing that that was the alternative to the collector. The church got their CUP approved with no connection to any collector. We are totally open to doing that. And it doubles as a pedestrian connection as well. We think that a full access of any sort would promote some cut through. We'd like it to be fire and pedestrian only and, then, the church -- anybody that happens to go to church that lives here would just go around and to the church. It's a short little jaunt, so -- thank you. De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Okay. Council, anything further? Bird: I have none. Rountree I have none. De Weerd: Okay. If there is no further information -- or no further comments or information needed, I would entertain a motion to close the Public Hearing. Rountree: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Rountree. Rountree: I move we close the Public Hearing on Item 12 and 13. m ~ Meridian City Council Octob.. 24, 2006 Page 32 of 67 Bird: Second. De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to close the Public Hearing on Items 12 and 13. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries. r\40TION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT. De Weerd: Is there any discussion? Rountree: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: ""r. Rountree. Rountree: It appears to me t~t the overriding issue here is the -- whether or not there is access through to the state highway to the east from this particular subdivision. We apparently have a resounding no from ACHD that they neither want it, nor do they think it's necessary. We have heard from a traffic engineer that it's not necessarily needed, wouldn't be needed or require a warrant there in the future, unless traffic platooning was necessary to have a light there. It would be a requirement just because of traffic volumes. The applicant did use a mix of lot sizes and, actually, put lots larger than an R-4 requirement, which they are adjacent to -- adjacent to Bear Creek and transition to the smaller R-8 type of lot to the church property, the indication that they would be willing to provide emergency access through the church property to the stub street and at least two pedestrian access points between the subdivision and what mayor may not occur to the east. So, you know, having heard what I have heard, by not moving and requiring that particular access connection, it seems to me that most of the issues are resolved. So, at this point I am inclined to be favorable to the request for modification of the development agreement and preliminary plat. De Weerd: Okay. Any other comments? Wardle: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Wardle. Wardle: I would agree with Councilman Rountree in a number of issues and I can understand staff's concern with -- at least considering the access to the state highway and the collector road. I think Anna and her staff have found that the City Council asked staff to get input from the community and the neighbors and I think we have had that today. Resoundingly so in a number of manners. So, I would agree that we can achieve staff's additional goal of safety and public safety through the applicant's mention of a pedestrian path with what I assume is a bollard at the trail head. Density for me is an issue on this particular application. I understand that the mix of lot size is transitioning from the larger lots to what is the church property and, then, potential ~ ~1 ~~; -.: Meridian City Council October 24, 2006 Page 33 of 67 additional use. So, I can agree that those are appropriate in this application. So, I guess I would be favorable without the addition of a mixture. .::: Bird: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: Well, I agree with what -- the other two Councilmen. My one concern is definitely the density, but they did -- they did address it and they did make the lots that back up to Bear Creek larger than R-4s, which I appreciate. And also appreciate staff for bringing this forward with this concern and I, too, can support this project. I think it's very well done. I wish they were all R-4 lots, but when you pay the money you pay for land now days, you got to make the pencil work. Rountree: I have one final comment, Madam Mayor. De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Rountree. Rountree: And this is for Ivy and Jessica and Hailey. Thank you, young ladies, for being here this evening and talking to us. I would very much encourage you, though, to make sure that your parents do have time for you and do have at least one of them accompany you on your trips to the park, please. Bird: That's right. De Weerd: Good message. Okay. If there is no further comments, Council, do I have a motion? Bird: Madam IMayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: I move we approve MI 06-004, modification of the development agreement between the City of Meridian and Valley Shepherd Church of the Nazarene and to include all staff, applicant, and public testimony. Rountree: Second. De Weerd: Okay. I do have a motion and a second to approve Item 12. Anna, do you need any clarification? Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, if you could just state for the record, Mr. Bird, that that would include not providing the collector street, that would be helpful. Bird: That would include not providing a collector road out to --