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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMay 3, 2007 P&Z Minutes Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission May 3, 2007 Page 27 of 62 Item 11: Public Hearing: RZ 07-008 Request for a Rezone of approximately 4 acres from a C-N zone to a C-C zone for Lots 1 - 5, Block 1 of the Corner at Vineyards Subdivision for Cherry Wood Village by Richard Brown and Roy Brown - SWC of Cherry Lane and Linder Road: Item 12: Public Hearing: CUP 07-007 Request for a Conditional Use Permit to allow retail sale and service of motor scooters within the C-C zoning district on Lot 3, Block 1, of the Corner at Vineyards Subdivision for Cherry Wood Village by Richard Brown and Roy Brown - SWC of Cherry Lane and Linder Road: Rohm: At this time I'd like to open the Public Hearing on RZ 07-008 and CUP 07-007, both items related to the Cherry Wood Village and begin with the staff report. Hess: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission. This application is a request for zoning approval of approximately four acres from the neighborhood business, C-N district, to community business, C-C district. Concurrent with the zoning application is a request for a Conditional Use Permit to allow for retail sales, stores, servicing of motor scooters slash recreational vehicles on Lot 3, Block 1, of the subdivision. And that is this lot right here. The subject property is located at the southwest corner of Cherry Lane and Linder Road. The site is currently built out and houses a Maverick fueling station right at the corner and a retail complex right here. There is also a car wash facility in here -- in the middle of the cue. The retail complex houses Dominos Pizza, a Movie Gallery, a Great Clips, a Sprint store, a pet food store, and a tax service. And a consignment shop. Further development of the site is not proposed at this time. To the north and east are existing commercial slash retail complexes, also zoned C-N neighborhood business. On a submitted site plan the applicant shows -- I apologize, we are having technical difficulties here. Okay. On the submitted site plan the applicant shows two existing full accesses -- actually, you can, actually, see them on the aerial photo here, too -- to Linder -- there is two to Linder Road. There is one here and there is one at the rear of the subdivision. And there are two full access points to Cherry Lane, one here also on the Maverick site, and one here in front of the Cherry Wood retail complex. Currently -- let's see. All uses within the Cherry Wood Center building are principally permitted, within the C-N zone and proposed C-C zones. The Maverick convenience store, fueling station, is a conditionally permitted use within the existing C-N zone and would be principally permitted within the proposed C-C zone. The proposed scooter recreational vehicle store is not currently an allowed use within the C-N zone and it's conditionally permitted within the C-C zone, hence, the request. Staff believes that a -- the indoor sales of scooters slash recreational vehicles may be an appropriate use of the site. However, the Commission should be aware that staff has received several calls from concerned neighbors regarding the noise that could be generated from this type of use. Therefore, staff recommends that the city limit the hours of operation for this proposed scooter store from 7:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. Additionally, staff recommends that no test driving of Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission May 3, 2007 Page 28 of 62 the store's merchandise be allowed within the parking lot. Staff has also requested that the applicant upgrade the landscaping at the rear of the site. And all of these recommendations are intended to protect the neighbors from the potential increase in noise and traffic that might take place if the Commission were to approve the conditional use request. Additionally, if the Commission believes that other allowed uses within the C-C are not appropriate, Commission may choose to add these requirements within a development agreement if so desired. So, staff is recommending approval of the Cherry Wood Village application in accordance with the conditions of approval listed in Exhibit B of your staff report. And that is all staff has, unless the Commission has questions. Rohm: Thank you very much. Any questions of staff? O'Brien: Not at this time. Siddoway: I have one. So, this use is being classified as what again in the code? Hess: A vehicle sales -- I think, it's servicing and storage. Siddoway: And that use is conditional even in the proposed C-C zone? Hess: It is a conditional use in the proposed C-C, not allowed in the existing C-N zone. Siddoway: In the C-N. Okay. Thank you. Rohm: Any other questions of staff? Would the applicant like to come forward, please? Brown: My name is Richard Brown. I live in Salt Lake City, number 24 South 600 East, Suite 7, Salt Lake City. Zip code is 84102. I think the staff report fairly states what our intentions are with the property. The property to the east of us -- several acres to the east of us is already zoned C-C so it's a developer owner of a piece of property that gives us the opportunity to compete with other developers in the area for tenants and a diverse higher tenant mix. The conditional use of the -- a portion of the building for the scooter business -- I'll let the owners of the business speak to that. The hours limitation that the staff has recommended is fine as far as I know, with the -- with that business -- the business will be closed on Sundays, so at least part of the weekend there won't be any impact in the neighborhood from the business. As far as the landscaping enhancement that the staff is recommending, I haven't had the opportunity to go through that in any real detail, but I'm sure we can, you know, accommodate what their needs are. I think the indication is that we need to add about seven to nine trees. You can see that the majority of the space is actually bordered by a church parking lot and the church property. It is the space to the west of our property and about half of the south property line that impacts the residential neighborhood. And so I assume that they are going to want to add trees primarily in that area. There already exists a six foot high cedar fence that's around all the property in that area. So, we have -- you know, Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission May 3, 2007 Page 29 of 62 we have some barrier already existing, but that's, basically, the nature of our application. Is there any questions or -- O'Brien: Primarily you're interested in putting in a scooter store, service and maintenance? Brown: Right. O'Brien: And you must have some experience in this in the past. Brown: No. No. I'm the property owner. Eric Fieldstad is the owner of the scooter business. O'Brien: Okay. Brown: He has an existing business -- O'Brien: I'll probably have more questions for him, then. Brown: Yes. And I'll let him address those questions to do with operation and the nature of his business and so on. He has an existing business in Boise on Fairview already and this will be a second location for him. Siddoway: Mr. Chairman. The site that is -- is this the site where the business would be or is it in the multi-tenant -- Brown: It's in the multi-tenant. If you go -- right there. Siddoway: Okay. Brown: It's in that. Originally, we had about 6,500 feet leased to Movie Gallery and they chose to downsize their operation, because VHS tapes don't take up as much room as DVDs and so we split that space in half and the space that the scooter business would occupy is about 3,200 feet. Siddoway: Okay. O'Brien: In yards or feet how far is this from Meridian Middle School? Brown: The middle school -- if you're going towards the right side of the map here, it's on the other side of that vacant piece of property. It's probably -- I don't know if it would be -- Rohm: Three-quarters of a mile -- Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission May 3, 2007 Page 30 of 62 Brown: -- half a mile at minimum I'd say. Yeah. It's -- the R-4 over there, that's the middle school property starting there. Their field and, then, the school. Yeah. Rohm: I think the majority of the people that are here are more interested -- Brown: In the operation. Rohm: -- in the operation and I think we will ask that individual, unless you have something else -- Brown: No. I'll let Eric -- Rohm: -- you wanted to ask, we'll have the -- Brown: He's, obviously, knowledgeable about that. Rohm: Yeah, please. Thank you. Fieldstad: Mr. Chairman and Members of the Commissioners, my name is Eric Fieldstad, 12979 West Pinion Court in Boise. I own and am the general manager of A-1 Scooter, registered with the Secretary of State's office. Current first store is located on Fairview for the last 18 months. It's our intent to offer to the buying public motorized gas scooters, which by state definition are motor vehicles. They are licensed and registered and titled for on-street use. We have been very successful in our current location. We propose -- this building site here is three times larger than what I'm in now, so we'd like to expand our product offering to children's scooters, commonly known as Schwinn or Razor, that you will see at your large stores. We have been designated by Razor as an authorized repair center, the only one in the state of Idaho. I employ a 20 year seasoned mechanic. The maintenance that we do is considered light maintenance. It's like tune-ups, spark plug changes, air filter changes, and oil changes, in that area. We feel that the location here is compatible. When we have been in it -- we have been in there setting up shelving and bringing in product, anticipating opening. And the general public that has come by has been very supportive. We have also hosted two neighborhood meetings at two different dates and have been open and attentive to the concerns of the neighbors. I highly support them. I think the record at our Fairview store will show that we are good neighbors and honest business people. Our hours of operation -- I get to stipulate within boundaries, it's 10:00 to 6:00 and we have no intent of it going beyond 6:00 o'clock at night, unless a patron so wishes to pick up a scooter after hours at their convenience, but the door will be closed. As far as test riding, the neighborhood meeting brought up some really good safety issues that we do want to be attentive of. I have offered to the neighborhood association and to the city staff not to conduct test rides at the site, as a safety concern, because of the drive-thru traffic, because it is a multi-business complex. I do ask for one allowance there and that would be the mechanic, after he completes a tune-up, needs the latitude to conduct a test run and we will do that out in front, so not to create a noise problem with our residents behind us, but that is one thing that -- I can't let a bike go out in the street without a Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission May 3, 2007 Page 31 of 62 member of -- myself or my staff testing riding it to prove it's safe for road use on it. I would like to note, Mr. Chairman, that the city staff, throughout this process, which started last November, has been open, available, and very courteous and informational to myself and to the others who are part of this application and we'd like to commend to yourself and to the members of the Commission their positive response. Rohm: Good. Thank you very much. I'm not sure that you can answer this in definitive numbers, but decibel levels, I think the concern of the public as a whole is how loud are these scooters. Are they -- is it like the Meridian Speedway when they are running on Friday nights? Is it where you can hear it five miles away, or is it -- you know, relative to -- can you speak to the -- Fieldstad: Yes, I can. Scooters, unlike motorcycles, are very quiet. They are mufflered. They are low cc, which is the engine size. If I were to drive up out front of your building here you would not know that I am here. The biggest cc we have is a 250. Most of them are 150 cc's. They are not the big Harleys or hogs that are commonly known, they don't have that bum, bum, bum sound. Rohm: They are probably not as loud as a lawnmower. Fieldstad: They are not as loud as a lawnmower, because they are mufflered larger. The studies that I have seen out of the national motorcycle industry, which they are a segment of, is about 5.6 for a 150 cc. I do get asked that, especially when young people are going to be riding. Rohm: Yeah. I don't know this to be a fact, but I'm sure we are going to get testimony to that, but I'm pretty sure that the noise -- the noise level associated with running them in a parking lot is a primary concern. Fieldstad: Not to be snide, but my experience -- some of the cars with the boom boxes are louder than these scooters, sir. Rohm: Thank you, sir. Moe: Mr. Chairman? Rohm: Commissioner Moe. Moe: As far as on a daily basis, you know, your facility in Boise at the present time, as far as service, how many people are coming in for service, you know, during the day and on this facility here are you looking to do the service coming through the back side or through the front doors? Fieldstad: Mr. Chairman, Commissioner Moe, it's seasonal, but I will give you the summertime period, which is our maximum. We do services by appointment, so we can regulate it. We space normally 45 minutes. An oil change will take ten minutes, but -- Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission May 3, 2007 Page 32 of 62 what we do is we will go through the whole bike, when the mechanic has it again, as a safety compliance and liability issue, we try to space it a minimum of 45 minutes. I would say not more than three service jobs are done in an eight hour period. Moe: And, then, the other question I would have is as far as fuel storage, what do you guys anticipate having on site for fuel? Fieldstad: Mr. Chairman, Commissioner Moe, I met with the fire inspection individual yesterday. We have the written report for your review. Because we are so close and adjacent to Maverick gas station, there will no containerized gasoline kept on premises. We normally keep three to four scooters with about one half a gallon in the tank of the vehicle itself. We can even eliminate that, because there is no test riding by the buying citizens. So, the gas that we would have would be those that bikes come in for service, on occasion say we have to replace a head on it, we would have to drain the gas out of the vehicle and that normally is not more than two gallons and that would be placed right back in. And also in conjunction to that, used motor oil today is a concern, not for flammability, but for environmental. We capture the used oil. Schuck's Auto Supplies have a no fee turn-in program, which we use about three times a week at our other store. Rohm: Any other questions of the applicant? Commissioner Siddoway. Siddoway: Mr. Chairman and Mr. Fieldstad, the -- just for the record and to clarify the use, you know, when I -- I believe I now understand exactly what we are doing, but the - - when I first read that this was a scooter slash recreational vehicle sales and repair, thought we were doing scooters and fifth wheels and motor homes, but your intent is really just the scooter, small motorcycle industry, is that correct? Fieldstad: Mr. Chair and Commissioner Siddoway, yes, that's our intent. Our focus will be scooters. Now, I understand scooters cover a broad spectrum of devises, Razor little aluminum kick scooters that you see almost every child -- that was the toy of the year in 2000 and it has been so for seven years. We do sell that. The children's electric scooters are very popular, both stand up and the sit down on a seat. We also service that. Up to a large scooter for on-road use. The recreational vehicles was the outcome of consumer demand. My generation grew up wanting go carts. This generation wants what we children's all terrain vehicles. A TVs. They are approximately that far off the ground and stuff. The business plan calls for the sale of two to three hundred of such all terrain vehicles, children's, between the two stores this year. The demand is just phenomenal. Siddoway: Thank you. Rohm: Commissioner O'Brien. O'Brien: When I first read this application what I came up with was pneumatics, so can you tell me what kind of tools, pneumatic tools will you be using there? Air compressor? Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission May 3, 2007 Page 33 of 62 Fieldstad: Yes. Mr. Chairman and Commissioner O'Brien, we have a roll-around air compressor. It is noisy. To fill the entire tank if it's empty takes no more than ten minutes and it's indoors. It's not used outdoors on it. That's the only pneumatic tool that we use. O'Brien: So, in your estimation, can you hear it from outside when you use an air gun or blowing air? Because that does make a lot of noise. Fieldstad: Again, Mr. Chairman and Commissioner O'Brien, in the use of the air gun itself, the only time we use it is to remove the main drive washer, which is -- allows the engine to come out from the front of it. Yes, you can hear that outside, to a distance I would say about 30 feet. But it's not like your Les Schwab or Goodyear, the zip, zip, zip that you hear when you're having your tires changed. O'Brien: What about for blowing off tools and things like this with an air gun? Fieldstad: Again, Mr. Chairman and Commissioner O'Brien, we don't use them to brush off our tools and stuff, our tools are hand-wiped. We also do use a power washer, again, one of the small commercial roll arounds and that makes absolutely no noise. O'Brien: What is the regulation modifying mufflers? Fieldstad: Mr. Chairman and Commissioner O'Brien, as a licensed and insured dealer, I do not modify mufflers from the manufacturer's specifications. O'Brien: So, If you sold a unit to someone and they modified it and brought it in for repair for something, I think that would be a concern of mine if I was living nearby and hearing two or three scooters coming in with their mufflers modified. I know it's not your problem, but I think as a resident homeowner, I would be. Fieldstad: Yes, again, Mr. Chairman and Commissioner O'Brien, it's not -- it's not unbeknownst to a -- I'll say young person to knock out the baffles in a muffler. If it comes to my company under that condition it is so noted on the work order and that's, again, because of liability, be it noise liability or mechanical failure by the cycle itself. If that vehicle were to come in, we would not test ride it. O'Brien: Yeah, but my concern would that of the neighbors hearing this. I don't know how often this happens. It may be to your experience in this has that happened? Fieldstad: Mr. Chairman and Commissioner O'Brien, I have had it happen once in 18 months. O'Brien: Okay. Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission May 3, 2007 Page 34 of 62 Fieldstad: Let me, though, give you a little more vision. When customers come in for service and things, they will come to the front of the complex. Myself or a member of my staff will wheel it -- hand wheel the vehicle to the back of the building. Again, we do that for insurance liability. O'Brien: Do you keep the doors open in the back or -- during the summertime? Fieldstad: Mr. Chairman, Commissioner O'Brien, my mechanic has a tendency of enjoying the outdoor air, so, yes, if -- again, if it's a noise situation we can definitely quiet it. O'Brien: Well, I think this is one of the major things is the noise issue and that's what I'm trying to get to in all these -- my questioning is to make sure that somehow this was addressed before these things are made. So, that's my question. Thank you. Fieldstad: And Mr. Chairman and Commissioner O'Brien, in follow up to that -- and I have stated this at both neighborhoods, my commitment to the neighbors individually and collectively as a neighborhood association, is to be a good neighbor, and as one of the neighbors said, well, Eric, we can only take your word, but I grew up in Spokane valley, my father and grandfather were general contractors, and a handshake and an individual's word was a contract. Rohm: Thank you, sir. Do you have any questions? Newton-Huckabay: I was going to suggest we need to do public testimony. Rohm: Thank you, sir. Okay. Ralph Gentry, would you like to come forward, please? Gentry: My name is Ralph Gentry. I reside at 1502 North Santa Rosa Place. I have a couple of questions here. I understand under C-N zone he is not allowed to be open for business? That's the reason he's applying for a C-C zone. The business is open right now and has been for some time. And he's using the word scooter, he's had at least one machine, a used off-road bike, parked out front for sale. That's not a scooter. That's a motorcycle. I'd like for him to answer this, that I called and they assured me that code enforcement would check him out as far as he is -- zoning. And he's open for business right now. I'd like to know now he's doing that. Newton-Huckabay: Okay. We will get an answer for you. Thank you. Fieldstad: But the word scooter that he's implying is a -- a small quiet machine and he's already -- I know at least one machine out front, a used machine, an off-road machine, which is not a scooter. You know, he's talking about servicing. He will have to test run these if he does any major servicing on them, outside of the building on the rear of the building. My property is within 33 foot of the boundary around that commercial use. So, do any of you have questions for me? Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission May 3, 2007 Page 35 of 62 Rohm: No, sir. And, basically, your testimony stands for itself. Fieldstad: I am against it one hundred percent. I attended one of his neighborhood meetings. There was two of us, three of us that showed up, and we never voiced our opinion. Was in favor of it to start with. But these machines, if he sells them, he's going to have to run them someplace. He's talking about out in front of the shop. If he services the machines and does any internal work on the motor, he's going to have to crank that machine up -- I'm assuming it's going to be in the rear of the building where his shop area is. And I'm close enough I'm going to hear all that. And we bought the property there, we bought it in good faith, with the zoning being what it was, that it wouldn't be changed. Now it's going to be changed. If he goes bankrupt or broke in six months, who is to say who moves into that with this C-C that would be, what form of a business could move in there. Rohm: Thank you, sir. Carol Gentry. From the audience she said she agrees with your husband. Good woman. Newton-Huckabay: He would not be speaking for the entire Commission at that point. Rohm: Okay. Moving on. Richard Brown. Okay. He's already spoken. John Watson. Watson: John Watson, 1486 North Sjlverado Place, Meridian. 83642. I am probably the home that is going to be overall the most impacted, myself and my next door neighbor. I live in the house at the very guts of the cul-de-sac. Right there. I'm not overly enamored with the thought of the project going in. However, from what I have talked with the applicant, the owner of the store, he appears to be a fairly -- a very honorable individual and I like what I have heard from him. Apparently he is in operation at this point in time. I haven't heard excessive noises from the area. However, if we are going to let the genie out of the bottle by the rezone, I do have some issues and concerns. We predated the construction of this strip mall by several years, the Vineyards homeowners -- or the Vineyards Subdivision. The Vineyards Subdivision is the folks that put the fence in there. That location right there, that's a dumpster. That dumpster is about six feet from my fence line and about 31 feet from my living room window. We have dumpsters being opened and slammed all the way up until about midnight. We have street sweepers that start anywhere between 23:00 or 11 :00 p.m. and go until about 1 :00 in the morning. We have delivery vehicles from the Dominoes that start at about 11 :00 o'clock at night and run their engines until they are finished, because they are refrigerated units. Lots of noise. Now, this gentleman is not going to add significant noise from what I have seen. However, if we are going to go for a rezone, I'd like some consideration for the neighbors that live up against here for noise reduction, so that we don't have street sweepers, we don't have the dumpster located adjacent to the fence, because in accordance with the Meridian City Code 4-2-1, a nuisance defined, anything that -- and I quote -- disturbs the peace and quiet is hereby declared to be a nuisance. That means a street sweeper at midnight. I have called and made several complaints about that. The police have come out and dealt with those on occasion. However, it has not fixed the situation. And so if we are going to let the genie Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission May 3, 2007 Page 36 of 62 out of the bottle, I'd sure like to have the dumpster removed or significant plantings behind where the fence line abuts Mr. Brown's property to reduce the noise impact that we are dealing with at this point in time. Subject to your questions, that concludes my testimony. Rohm: Thank you. I appreciate your input. Seriously, you did a good job. Any questions of this individual? Thank you, sir. Gill Thoreson. Thoreson: My name is Gilbert Thoreson. I reside at 1490 North Santa Rosa Place in the Vineyards. My wife accompanies me and she is my director. What I'm here to say is I'm against the zoning change from C-N to C-C. I think you're opening the bottle and letting the genie out. The veracity of the individual is in question, the one who is going to run the operation, in that before it was -- before we ever came here to see -- and discuss this matter with you, the store was already open for business. There were two motorcycles -- not motorcycles, but the all terrain -- I forget what you call them. Dirt bikes. Rohm: ATMs or-- Thoreson: Dirt bikes. Rohm: ATVs I guess it is. Thoreson: They are dirt bikes. They are the size of a motorcycle, but they were dirt bikes. They were outside for sale and, then, they were -- there was also some scooters outside and, you know, they were enticing business and this is before the store was authorized for business. So, that question -- this brings up my question as to his veracity and his continuing to be honest with the public later, so I -- that's my question there on the honesty of the individual. Noise level, I still think the potential is there, because they will be getting RV type vehicles in the back for servicing. The potential of servicing these vehicles, without their proper muffling, is there and the noise level will go up. The handling of fuel, gasoline, disturbs me a little bit and the servicing of those vehicles with gasoline in the back. It also is a heavy traffic area going to Maverick, people going in and around that area, and this is another increase in that type of traffic. I think it will be a negative impact on my home. He has not specified what the value of his property would do and his work would do for the City of Meridian, but it would impact probably our homes and the value thereof and that's about all I have to say, unless you have some questions of me. Rohm: Thank you, sir. Moe: Mr. Chairman, before you ask for the next person, I'd like to know from staff are you aware of what's going on with him operating in this facility right now? Hess: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, yes, I am. When we first met with the applicant he -- we had told him that operation -- scooter sales, things like that, of Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission May 3, 2007 Page 37 of 62 motor vehicles, ones that could be, you know, licensed and used on the road, were not allowed on the site until -- if and until the rezone was approved. Kiddie toys, those kinds of things, like the kind -- the toys that you can buy at Fred Meyer or Wal-Mart, we -- he was given a temporary occupancy by the building department to sell those, but store his other items. No sales were to occur. I guess there must have been some sort of misunderstanding and the applicant did open the store for business for selling ATVs and, you know, mo-peds and scooters. When staff became aware of this, because some of the neighboring property owners had voiced their concerns, we contacted code enforcement and they have been out to the site multiple times and the applicant is not selling or does not have his doors open for operation. He's not selling to the public, he is not servicing vehicles in the building at this time. He has taken down his sign. That was another stipulation of our department, that there be no indication of any sort of business running at this point. Moe: Thank you. Rohm: Thank you. Norma Thoreson, did you want to speak as well? She agrees with her husband. I'm not going to add comment to that one. I'll just leave that one alone. Okay. Commissioner Newton-Huckabay, did you have something you wanted to add to that? Newton-Huckabay: No. Well, I have a question, if I may around -- around the zoning -- rezoning of the entire piece of property, outside of the scooter store. Through a development agreement could we require to have the way the perimeter of this property is treated be upgraded? Is it in there? Hess: Mr. Chair, Members of the Commission, yes, I have asked the applicant to provide additional trees within the landscaping buffer, because currently the buffers are not at full width to -- or not up to code with -- with current city code and -- but if there is any additional -- if the Commission doesn't feel like what I have proposed -- staff has proposed is sufficient and would like to have additional landscaping on top of what that is, then, it's certainly at your discretion to add that. Newton-Huckabay: I guess I was leaning more towards -- and you did put them in there, it just escaped my brain. Like the dumpster, the fencing -- Hess: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, if the Commission decides that the existing fencing isn't sufficient for noise abatement, then, they could certainly add a stipulation for that, too. As far as the dumpster goes, that site was, I guess, proposed and approved by SSC, which is a private entity, and so the city doesn't really have control over when their hours of operation are. So, I guess I would suggest that the -- I guess the neighboring property owners might contact SSC to work out -- along with the applicant to workout a more suitable time for garbage pickup. Newton-Huckabay: I was thinking more along moving it -- moving the dumpster, but I'm not sure, again, where it would go and I didn't know if that was an option. Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission May 3, 2007 Page 38 of 62 Hess: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, that can certainly be a stipulation within a development agreement if you'd like to see that moved. But, again, that would have to be -- the new site would have to be compatible with, you know, the large trucks. Newton-Huckabay: Right. Yeah. Correct. Definitely. Now, I -- as I don't go behind that development very often or rarely, is that dumpster in the new brick enclosures, the cinder block enclosures that the dumpsters are in now, generally, in new developments? Hess: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, staff isn't aware of that. When I did the site visit I didn't -- I missed that. So, the property owner Mr. Brown might want to come back up and discuss that. Rohm: Thank you. Hess: So, just to wrap up my comments. So, that is an option to look at maybe taking your suggestions a step further if we went with the C-C for the whole site. Rohm: Thank you. Kevin Snow. Snow: Kevin Snow, 1470 North Silverado Place. I would be the homeowner -- I have the corner of this -- adjacent to the church lot and to the commercial property. I appreciate that the Commission understands our concerns about the noise. I want you to know that we as the homeowners do not consider that cedar fence to be a sound barrier. I sent some pictures in with a packet, I don't know if you each have a copy of that, but in that there is some photographs of the commercial properties. To the east and to the north of this one -- the properties north and east both have seven foot cinder block sound barriers. Those properties do not have gas stations, they do not have a car wash, they don't have vacuum cleaning stations. To the north they don't even allow vehicle access between the commercial and residential area. I think that's really neighborly of them. Ironically, this corner has that little cedar privacy fence and all it really does is block line of sight, yet it is the heaviest use as far as short-term traffic coming in and out of there. Every resident I have talked to, the Asmussens, the Corders, who aren't here tonight, the Watson, the Granges, the Farmers, the Petersons and a couple I have left out, they all have their stories about difficulties in and around this particular commercial property. And we have become sensitive. It's just a few scooters; right? There should be no -- you'd think you would hardly be able to notice behind the rest of the din. I have witnessed the moving and testing of the inventory at the rear of the shop. I have seen scooters, I have seen one dirt bike. I have seen an ATV, which was, actually, in one of the photos that I sent in. Had a hard time starting it. They had to start it over and over and over again. There is takeoffs and landings. I'm here tonight because even without any operations going on as far as servicing, it's already been an impact and it will be an impact. We voice our concerns or sent representatives to voice our concerns to the neighborhood meetings and we actually plead with them by letter to find a more suitable location. They have offered Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission May 3, 2007 Page 39 of 62 assurances. I don't feel the assurances are enforceable or particularly reasonable. This property is designed for service in the rear. It is for retail -- not necessarily for motor exhaust -- and I think they need to be able to use the property if they are going to use it in this manner. They need to be able to use the rear. I agree with the mechanic, I think he needs to have the doors open. He can't be asphyxiating his crew in there when he's fixing a motor or an engine. The only problem is that without a firm sound barrier they can't do this without impacting residents. Now, that's why I would beg that any conditional use or zoning change be conditional on there being a sound barrier or cinder block fence being placed in the commercial properties and the residential properties, just like has been done on the north and on the east, with those properties that are also commercial community on the one and commercial neighborhood on the other. But better yet, I would like to encourage you to keep it zoned as a commercial neighborhood for business -- for commercial neighborhood businesses only. The reason being -- and one of you brought up the Meridian Middle School, which is just east of here, just off the map. There is the Meridian library just across the street. To the north of this intersection we have Tully Park. Just north of that is Mountain View High School or middle school or whichever it is. To the south-- Newton-Huckabay: Sawtooth. Snow: -- you have -- just south of this church lot, 'on the other side of the division, is Meridian High School, home of the warriors. We have a very very heavy investment in the under 18 year old demographic and as such we draw a large community to school that's oriented to traffic in this area. We have cars from Ustick to Pine, from Linder to 7th, they are all stacked up waiting for the light to change. And my kids get to walk to and from school through this for the next 18 years. I ask you please -- I don't think we need to throw more community attractions into this mix. We have thousands of students and parents that are coming here already and if we allow this change, my neighbors and I have to live with it for a long long time. If you must rezone, please, make it conditional on a solid sound barrier between the commercial and residential properties. I mean all the way around. On the south and on the west. But, please, consider keeping it a commercial neighborhood. We have a huge neighborhood as it is and I don't see any reason to designate it as to a community leveling that's going to draw even more traffic that isn't associated with the schools. I think he can be plenty competitive -- and I also fear as a homeowner what might or could go in there. A lot of things worse than a one story scooter shop. Those are my comments. I would like also to confirm -- my wife drove by it this morning, she witnessed the sign saying that they were currently closed for business, planning to reopen possibly in June, pending zoning approval, and presume it was just a good faith misunderstanding as far as running the business earlier. I have -- as I have said, have seen other vehicles there and I don't think that's necessarily anything other than moving an inventory or possibly even just the people who work there. It might be their personal vehicle. But the sound is a sore point and that cedar fence is not a sound barrier. Thank you. Rohm: Thank you, sir. Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission May 3, 2007 Page 40 of 62 Moe: Mr. Chairman? Rohm: Mr. Snow. Moe: Mr. Snow, I was just curious. Were you an original homeowner? Snow: I was not. Moe: Okay. So, you were -- were you moved in before the -- Snow: I came in knowing the Maverick was there and they have got low prices, God bless them. As a frequent customer I have never been able to find the stacking lane that's supposed to be there, but I go there quite frequently. I like the neighborhood services that are there. Moe: Thank you. Rohm: Hal DeGrange. DeGrange: My name is Hal DeGrange. I reside at 1450 North Silverado Place in Meridian. And my home is the back end of -- the east side of my fence line buts up against the Church of Christ. I'm in complete agreement with Mr. Snow. My concern is -- and attended one of the owner's meetings where our concern was the test drive. This parking lot within the church is a magnet. We have had stuck vehicles back here, honeymooners or what have you, through the previous years. We have had dirt bikes riding in this area, in this arena here, and, then, not to mention the RVs that accumulate during whatever operations the church conducts. But this parking lot -- and they do have signs posted. I have talked with a representative from the church that they have no skateboarding, so forth and so on. I'm also involved in maintenance and I used to ride dirt bikes and motorcycles. I purchased one from Carl's Cycles and we had the opportunity, because of the property in back of their facility, to actually test drive. You go in for maintenance and you want to make sure that that maintenance is done properly, so what do you do, you take your vehicle, your motorcycle out and you test drive it and what a perfect place to do that. And the right-hand turns all the way around, we have already, ironically, whether or not this has anything to do with sales or service, have a lot of traffic -- and I don't know if they think it's a cutoff to get back to this facility here, but residing next to Snow and my children also, it's almost hazardous. One of us is always outside. We never leave our children in the cul-de-sac to play on their own, because of the traffic impact that we have. And I'm not saying that that's a result of this facility here, but the amount of impact that we do have here, not to mention the noise -- I have been here -- our home was the first one built in phase two, Lot 33, of the subdivision. I have been here since 1993 and have endured tremendous noise impact with this facility. I have attended several council meetings when this faCility here, I believe, was the only one that was present at the time. This strip mall here that was being built, I was assured through Holland Realty it was nothing more than an office complex. Well, that's what I get for listening to our realtor. As far as the dumpsters -- Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission May 3, 2007 Page 41 of 62 and I, too, have witnesses and chased off many, called the police department, what have you, reefer units parked out here -- it's a tremendous noise impact. If I was going to come out and test drive my vehicle after maintenance, it's nothing but right-hand turns all the way around through our subdivision, which would be easy departure and return access back to the facility and same with this parking lot here. Even if I had a dirt bike and I could come off road, so to speak, on sidewalks, without even getting on a thoroughfare, this would be a great area to test drive these vehicles. That's my concern. I agree with Mr. Snow and Mr. Watson about putting up a cinder block barrier, sound barrier, of some sort, because the subdivision has provided this barrier, which is no more than a privacy barrier around the perimeter of the subdivision. Like I said, I have been here for a long time. I hope to be here for some time. As Mr. Snow mentioned, I have got a son that will probably be doing the same thing, walking to the nearby high school here in a few more years. This is a high volume traffic impact. There is a lot of vehicles that cut this corner with the backed up traffic. What I have witnessed is mainly high school kids cutting through this parking lot to beat the light. With the addition of any kind of a test drive or any additional movement of motor vehicles in this area, even with the addition of speed bumps, I think you're going to set up somewhat of a safety problem here. Anyway, I am in complete opposition of this rezoning and thank you. Moe: Sir? Rohm: Go ahead, Commissioner Moe. Moe: Okay. You said that you were there prior to the strip mall going in. At that time -- and you said you had been to council meetings and whatnot. Was there any discussion at all in regards to putting a different fence at that time? DeGrange: Well, there was discussion, but wasn't in favor. Actually, I was here with Mr. Watson also -- we -- at that time there was a security problem. We actually had kids -- and I have watched several kids before Mr. Snow moved in -- I can't remember -- Joe -- I can't remember his last name. I actually watched two high school kids cut through, ready to jump the fence and I went out and stopped them. I have had a picket fence busted out where kids have physically jumped my fence. At the time it was more security. The neighbor actually had someone break into -- actually walked into the house, the wife let out a scream, and both of us watched that person jump the fence and hop into a vehicle behind -- between the fence and the property in question. So, at the time it was more of a security issue and this is before the growth started coming and the noise and the population. But to answer your question -- kind of got sidetracked here. At the time it was more of a security situation, more so than noise. Moe: But to your knowledge there was really no discussions about wanting to put some type of a block fence in there -- Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission May 3, 2007 Page 42 of 62 DeGrange: Well, we had mentioned that, but we were pretty well stopped. The zoning commission laughed and said how could a high school kid jump a six foot fence. So, that was -- I kind of saw where that situation was going, so we gracefully backed down. Moe: Thank you. Rohm: Commissioner O'Brien. O'Brien: Yes, Mr. Chairman. Any recollection on the use of the dumpster. Now, the majority of the noise comes from the disposal carried away by truck or is it from people using it, slamming the lid down? DeGrange: It's from both. Myself and my wife have contacted SCC to do rescheduling. At one time the trash pickup was at 4:30 a.m. Saturday mornings, of all times, and not only hearing the diesel truck, but you would hear the lid slam as the dumpster was being brought over the truck and, then, however they manipulated the hydraulics to get all the trash out and, then, set back down and slammed. And, finally, they -- it was later on in the afternoon, but it was still on Saturdays. But I mean, yeah, the metallic sounds of the dumpster actually being slammed back onto the asphalt and picked up, is very -- O'Brien: During the day the -- from the people that use the dumpster, is that an issue that -- DeGrange: Well, there is -- you know, during the day it's -- from -- you hear it, but it's not so much of a problem. You know, I mean -- when you're at night -- I mean we -- we have to keep our blinds closed, we keep our windows closed -- if it's not vacuums, it's the beeper, the timer beepers on the car wash, you know, we have actually had one of the -- my wife had him come upstairs and actually listen with the windows closed on the -- the loudness of the beepers and it was at that time that he finally turned them down. But, you know, I guess in conclusion it's just been a long, drawn out battle. I mean we strategically placed vegetation to block off the Mavericks, the car wash, you know, I mean we are just kind of surrounding ourselves in with trees and whatnot to seclude ourselves and same thing trying to have some kind of a noise abatement there that -- for that mess, but it's -- ultimately it's -- to me this is going to be nothing but an amplifier that's going to create nothing but havoc. O'Brien: Thank you. DeGrange: Thank you. Rohm: Kurt Farmer. Farmer: Kurt Farmer. I live at 1530 North Santa Rosa, which is this property right here. I moved in coming up on two years ago, knowing that this was a commercial development, zoned for commercial neighborhood. I was willing accept, because it was existing, the car wash noise, the Maverick noise, kids that wash their cars drive down to Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission May 3, 2007 Page 43 of 62 my end and have their stereos going loud. I just figured that was part of what would happen. I will go out and shine a light in their windows and they take off rather quickly. We do have people cutting through our yards, jumping our fences, that type of thing. Those are things that I guess I have to accept because I moved in with those conditions already there. However, changing the zoning on this -- good intentions or not, human nature is to go for what's convenient. We are -- people are going to bring their scooters in and they are going to hand walk them around the Dominoes and around to the back and into the building to work on them. That will probably happen for the first week. Human nature will be, okay, well, I'll just kick it on, get around there really fast, I got to get going on it. And, then, to bring it out to test drive it. I just see that good intentions are not always followed, especially by employees, having managed employees in the past and having been an employee in the past. So, my -- like everyone else, my concern is noise. And from other comments I agree that as much traffic as comes through here, I -- I try and walk my kids over to the Maverick or ride their bikes and it's hazardous enough just trying to cross these -- any of these intersections to go get a snow cone that might be out here or into the Maverick. I just can't imagine anymore traffic that we invite in there specific to a vehicle, scooter related. And those are my comments. Rohm: Thank you, sir. That concludes the list of individuals that have signed up to testify, but the microphone is still open, so if there is someone that -- one at a time. Watson: John Watson, 14 -- Rohm: You're going to have to make it very quick, because you already testified. Watson: John Watson, 1486 Silverado Place. Just several things I want to add. In the very near future Linder will be extended to five lanes and the number one entrance to that I will almost guarantee you will be blocked to a right-in, right-out only and the noise from the trash is specific -- the pickup is a problem, but also employees dumping trash between 8:00 and 11 :00 and midnight, that is also one of my primary concerns. Rohm: Thank you, sir. Crandall: David Crandall, 1864 East Lock Meadow Street in Meridian. Mr. Chairman, Commissioners, there was a -- I read in the report -- and there was a brief comment when it's changed from a C-N C-C doesn't the buffer, then, have to increase? And I don't remember if it was 25 feet -- 20 to 25 feet or 30 feet to 35 feet. I think in protection of the neighbors, in addition to the landscape, I think there should be something in the record that if it is changed to a C-C that that increased buffer zone should also be a requirement. I happen to use the business. I happen to come down to Maverick, I happen to go to that movie store. Human nature, as we have discussed what it's going to be, it is almost impossible during the daytime to drive a car from one end down to the end, Maverick, pizza delivery, the car wash, I think human nature is going to be that these guy who are the employees of the store, when they want to start test driving those motorcycles, they are going to find they can't test drive them down that outside street. Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission May 3, 2007 Page 44 of 62 It's too much traffic. It's too busy. They, by nature, are going to just say, oh, let's go to the back, there is no one back there, it's open, and they are going to start racing up and down that back. I can just see it happen. Because I know the times I have tried to get to the Maverick, sometimes you can't get up and down that area. But I think we -- the other things I think you need to consider, too, it does -- I think you heard the statement opens a Pandora's Box, if you change the zones for this one business, it's changed. I mean any of the other businesses go change and want to change, it opens the door what can come in and it's just going to keep escalating and I think that's what the neighbors here are concerned about. So, in addition to the landscaping and buffering, I hope you have some strong wording in there to really help protect these residents. Rohm: Thank you, sir. O'Brien: Mr. Chairman, question for staff. Rohm: Please. Go ahead. O'Brien: Sonya, on the -- on the wall of -- if they installed a concrete wall or whatever, what is the experience on -- on sound buffering from those. What good do they do? Do they really buffer up that much different than anything else? I didn't see that in my experience that they do that good a job. It seems to me like -- you're talking about an air space between two walls might -- but a single wall, I don't know if that would satisfy putting that up around the perimeter. Hess: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, I don't have a lot of experience with sound abatement walls. I don't know if my supervisor here would know. Hood: You know, it really depends on where the noise is coming from for the most part. I mean noise that is happening further away from the wall is going to carry over the wall. If it's dumpsters and things that are closer to the wall, it actually will do a better job of screening that. Cars driving down there, you're right, I mean it will do better, it sounds like, than the cedar fence that's there now. Will it totally abate the noise, I don't think so. So, you know, without there being some type of noise study, we won't be able to tell but O'Brien: Yeah. I didn't know if there had been a study done on noise abatement pertaining to concrete or a brick wall, if one was better than the other, or a double wall with space in between, you know, that kind of thing. So, I didn't know if the city had experience with that in other areas. Hood: Again, Mr. Chair, Commissioner O'Brien, I can't think of any instances -- they are really site specific and I can't recall some of those instances and what the conclusions were of what would be the best -- I don't recall any side by side or some spacing with a double wall -- the taller the wall, sometimes even an eight foot tall is going to be better than a six foot tall. I'm not proposing that, but a lot of times that is something that is allowed in the commercial district and it helps to prevent some of the other things you Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission May 3, 2007 Page 45 of 62 have heard about tonight. Scaling an eight foot wall is a little bit more difficult than a six, so -- O'Brien: Thank you. Appreciate it. That's alii have. Rohm: Okay. Before we have the applicant come back up, I have one more question. In your staff report did you recommend that we require them to change the buffer to match the current code for C-C from what it currently is? Is that in the staff report, Amanda? Hess: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, no, it is not. Staff only recommended that additional trees and landscaping be provided within the existing buffer. Because the site is existing, it just seemed a little impractical for the property owner to have to retrofit the site, to rip out concrete curbing and, you know, asphalt, to, then, put a new curbing with additional landscaping -- you know, which, essentially, would just be sod, you know, grass and whatnot. So, it sounds like it might be more appropriate than to require some sort of, you know, fencing and additional trees to fit what the neighbors are looking for. Rohm: Okay. Thank you. I appreciate your comments there. Is there anyone else that would like to testify on a first time basis before we ask the applicant to come back up? Okay. At this time would the applicant like to come back up? And I don't really care which one of you comes forward, but, basically, the comments from the field have been primarily due to the noise. Moe: Mr. Chairman, I'm glad he's come up, but we probably want to have the developer come up as well, because I do have definitely a question for -- Rohm: Absolutely. Fieldstad: Mr. Chair, Members of the Commission, Eric Fieldstad, 12979 West Bain Court, Boise. I will be very specific. The opening of the store was a good faith mistake and I take responsibility for it. It's my understanding that children's toys, accessories like helmets, repair parts, and light maintenance were part of the authorization given. As soon as it was brought to my attention I met with the code enforcement officer, asked of the staff for an immediate meeting, which they responded within 24 hours, and I offered to the city staff to close, so there was no further continuance of violation, either perceived or actual. So, I take responsibility. The sale of the vehicle that was out in front was a private thing and was removed. So, that was not in my jurisdiction. Just a couple of very minor points. We appreciate the consideration of it. Scooters have been the fastest growing segment of the motorcycle industry for the past five years. We hope you see that the addition of our store as a positive contribution to this great community and we appreciate your consideration. Rohm: Thank you. Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission May 3, 2007 Page 46 of 62 Brown: Richard Brown, number 24 South 600 East in Salt Lake City, Utah. Moe: Mr. Brown, I guess, you know, the main thing I wanted to get -- you're looking to change the zoning from the C-N to C-C. On the report you have stated that the properties to the east of Linder Road there are -- are zoned the C-C and, therefore, you were wanting to have the same designation. Those properties over there, they are bound with a perimeter block wall and whatnot through there. Actually, when they -- probably 18 months ago or whatever, when they were going to do some expansion farther to the east, they came before us and we had also told them if you want to expand you're going to have to go ahead and match out your block wall all the way around, again, because going with the C-C zoning. So, I guess my question to you is -- is if, in fact, we were going to be looking to go to a C-C zoning on your property would you be willing to put up a block wall around your perimeter? Brown: We have looked into the cost of that. The approximate cost is 31,000 dollars to do that. That's a pretty significant investment for us, you know, on this piece of property that's been existing for ten plus years now. If I have to do it in order to change the zoning, you know, I'd consider it. Do the neighbors want to participate in that cost? It's adding to the value of their property as well. I don't know. I don't think so from that comment. Rohm: It doesn't sound like it. Moe: You didn't anticipate getting a different answer, did you? Brown: You know, as far as the -- as far as the additional plantings and those kind of things, you know, we would be -- we are willing to work anyway we can to help it. I don't think that we have been totally intolerant of our neighbors in the past. You know, we have heard complaints in the neighborhood meeting about the -- the garbage service. Well, there is a restriction in Meridian city limits, you can't pick up garbage in commercial areas until after 7:00 o'clock in the morning. Ours gets picked up at 11 :00. We have asked them to change and they did change. The six foot cedar board fence was installed when they created the subdivision. We maintain it, the homeowners have maintained it, it's in good shape, it does its job, but, you know, as far as a six or an eight foot block fence, that's a pretty expensive investment for us. We'd have to consider that I think. Moe: Thank you very much. Brown: But we will consider that. Any other questions? Moe: That's alii had. Rohm: Okay. I think at this time it's appropriate to close the Public Hearing and, then, we can have some internal discussion amongst the Commission. Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission May 3, 2007 Page 47 of 62 Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Chair? Rohm: Commissioner Newton-Huckabay. Newton-Huckabay: I propose we close the Public Hearing on RZ 07-008 and CUP 07- 007. Siddoway: Second. Rohm: It's been moved and seconded to close the Public Hearing on RZ 07-008 and CUP 07-007. All those in favor say aye. Opposed same sign? Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Rohm: Okay. Commissioner Mae, would you care to -- Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Chair? Actually, Commissioner Siddoway is looking at the C-C zoning and has some comments on there. I think it would probably benefit all of us if he were to go first. Rohm: Well, thank you for your input. Commissioner Siddoway, why don't you go first this time. Siddoway: Such pressure. Okay. I'm going to take them one at a time. On the rezone, I don't have any particular objection to rezoning in order to accommodate this use as a conditional use. I have been looking at the zone and looking for those -- the intense -- the more intense uses that the C-C zone would allow that the C-N zone does not. They actually are quite similar to one another through most of their uses, but there are three that -- in particular that I saw of some concern. One is fuel sales, one is the vehicular washing facility, and a third one is bUilding materials. Now, two of those three exist on the site now as conditional uses and the change in zoning would make them permitted. Should those uses propose expansions of any type in the future, I would want to see those remain as conditional uses, so that the neighbors would have a Public Hearing to testify at regarding any expansion of a car wash or the fuel sales. Therefore, on the rezone side, as part of the development agreement, I would propose that those three uses specifically remain conditional in order to address the potential future impacts that the rezone could create for the -- for the subdivision. Regarding -- there wasn't much discussion on this one, but I want to bring it up, just because it was the first issue in the staff report for outstanding issues, and that is the traffic safety and access management and I would just say in relation to that, my thoughts are that, you know, I would support additional access management, but I don't want to -- I don't feel this is the time part of this, because just sticking up a sign that says change to right-in, right-out only doesn't really change anything and creates an enforcement headache. But knowing that a future road project is coming that could install medians or something that forced those changes, I would just go on the record and -- that I would support that as part of the future road project, but not as a condition of this application. On the -- the Conditional Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission May 3, 2007 Page 48 of 62 Use Permit, the noise is the big issue for me. I -- as staff, I dealt with noise a lot and -- well -- and I didn't particularly find any benefit to the block wall for noise issues. The noise just seems to travel over the wall and as commercial areas have gone in, the noise complaints are still -- still come in with the -- in areas where there are block walls. So, you know, I could support one, but I don't think it's really going to address the noise issue. So, in my mind I'm thinking how do we address the noise issue and the no test rides on the site seem to help that. There needs to be no outdoor sales. The sales need to be kept indoors. I don't think there is enough parking to accommodate taking up parking spaces with vehicles that would be for sale. I think the rear doors need to be closed whenever operating power tools. I think it's accommodations like that that are going to make the biggest difference in -- in the noise. So, that's -- that's my thought. I would support the addition of landscaping. I keep trying to think of a place to move that dumpster, because I would not like to hear that slammed at all hours of the night, but I don't know if there is -- well, I don't know if there is anything we can do with -- Amanda, does the existing landscape buffer end at this point here? This looks like asphalt from that point on. I'm just -- but it looks like there is some trees here, so I'm trying to figure out what's going on on the site. Hess: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, actually, at the widest point the landscape buffer is -- is here and I think in my staff report it talked about being 19 feet wide, which, then, at this point abruptly -- you know, a 90 degree turn, comes down to 11 feet wide over on these two lots. I think that answers your question. Siddoway: So -- and this is you say 19? Hess: Nineteen. Correct. This is 19 feet wide. Siddoway: So, close to the 20 foot buffer required between land uses. Hess: Correct. Siddoway: Inside that 11 foot buffer -- I think that that would accommodate the dumpster enclosure, but if it were -- the enclosure were relocated further from the residences -- I'd certainly entertain the idea. I don't -- anyway, I'll let my comments stand there and move to hear from any of the Commissioners and -- Rohm: Thank you, Commissioner Siddoway. Commissioner O'Brien, did you have some additional comments? O'Brien: Yeah, I really do need to comment on a few things. I really seriously listened to -- as I always do to all the comments from both the applicant and the homeowners around there. And I have really looked into this as much as I could for as much experience I have in this Commission. You know, there was a reason why they zoned it C-N really and I really feel strongly that that reason was for the issues that we are seeing before us tonight. To change it to C-C, I think -- I'd have to agree that I think we are opening up a problem. And, you know, I think we look at this thing with all the Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission May 3, 2007 Page 49 of 62 Band-Aids looking to put in place, I just don't think that's going to work. That's my personal opinion. I just don't think it's a good idea at this time to change that particular thing. There is too many little problems that are going to creep up and they are going to really blow us away there. That's alii have to say. Rohm: Thank you, Commissioner O'Brien. Commissioner Newton-Huckabay? Newton-Huckabay: Given that two of the uses in -- on the property are C-C uses, makes somewhat for me the zoning a little bit of a moot issue. I think we, actually, give ourselves more power by -- if we were to move forward with a conditional use of the three uses that Commissioner Siddoway was talking about. It does insure that should expansion or some other changes take place on that property, that it comes before the Commission and the neighbors again. I'm not sure if that would have otherwise. Regarding the traffic, just stopped at Maverick on my way in tonight. That is very busy. I also agree that we aren't going to get a real benefit until the road is expanded. I live off of Linder myself in north Meridian. If we could put some gas stations on some other corners besides this one, I think we would all be happier. I would like to see a block wall to mirror the block walls that have come on the other properties that are zoned C-C. I will, I'm certain, be requiring one on the northeast corner when it comes through with that commercial in the future. We haven't seen that one yet, have we? The northeast corner. Did we? Okay. Did we require a block wall? We will. That one is the church? Hood: Mr. Chair, Commissioner Newton-Huckabay, the church abuts that, so it's a little bit different situation, where the other ones are residential directly adjacent. The church use is directly adjacent to those three homes that are there. So, there was no requirement for a block wall. Newton-Huckabay: Okay. There wasn't -- okay. Now, I want -- yeah. I guess would like to see a block wall and the additional landscaping. Generally, when I envision what goes in this strip mall -- because I do go in this area, too, this isn't the type of business that I really envision going in there. So, I'm not really sure where -- where I stand on it. I think that the scooter industry is only going to get more and more popular as we get closer and closer to five dollars a gallon for gas, so -- I'm going to have to end my comments there. I just am not sure where I'm going to vote on -- on the CUP at this time. But I would vote in favor of the C-C zoning with the -- with the addition of a block wall, with moving the dumpster, and additional landscaping, trees, and such. Oh. And the conditional uses on those -- those three uses that are different from the C-N zone. End of comment. Rohm: Thank you. Commissioner Moe. Moe: I'm confused now. Number one, I am an offender. I have been in that parking lot and I do go through the parking lot to get to the west out and go. I'm guilty. I have done that many times, as a matter of fact, because there is not a lot in and out and it's a pretty tough place to be anytime you're in there. We talked about traffic. Dominoes is the traffic there, folks. I mean is that -- that's a race track over there when they are in Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission May 3, 2007 Page 50 of 62 and out. That place is very busy all the time. The likelihood of them trying to service scooters in the front of that building, that's going to be a hazard more than anything else and my concern is that you could start doing that and then, you're going to find that that is going to be a problem and, therefore, then, you're in the back trying to take care of it. So, therefore, then, you got your noise in the back. I'm going to jump around here a little bit. The C-N to the C-C, I don't have a problem going to the C-C, simply because of the fact that we already have uses that are in there, but I, too, think if you're going to go to C-C, I would like to see a block wall, because I do believe you will get -- with a full grouted block wall you will get some sound deadening at that point, which would be very helpful. But at the same time I just -- with the amount of traffic there and everything else, I think it's going to be very hard, you know, for the applicant to be able to truthfully plan to service everything out the front and the understanding that you want to be a very good neighbor and work with the neighborhood on that, I just -- I'm having a real problem that that can happen, just for the simple fact of what I have seen happen in that parking lot. Again, I'm one of those offenders through there. So, a couple things. I think the business itself, definitely would like to see it in Meridian. At this location, I'm having a hard time with it, no doubt about it. So, as far as the zoning, I would -- I would probably approve a -- to go to the C-C with that, looking for a block wall. As far as the CUP -- Siddoway: With the block wall, is the use acceptable with the CUP or -- Moe: Well, I would lean towards approval on the CUP. Well, I'm still not, quite frankly, convinced of what I want to do with the CUP for the business being in that location. I guess the one thing I would just add to it all, the one thing I was a little bit surprised at -- a little bit -- we have had the neighbors show up, but the direct neighbors to this facility, no one's here for either Dominoes or the movie theater. I realize they are tenants of this development, but they evidently don't have a problem with a scooter shop going in between, so that would be my comments. Rohm: Boy, I don't know who is going to make the motion, but it will be -- Commissioner O'Brien. O'Brien: Yeah. Regarding the block wall you have to understand the -- what we are talking about here. A concrete wall of any type is not an absorptive material, it's a reflector. It reflects sound back and echoes. It's going to hit the back of those buildings back there and reflect back over the top anyway. You're not going to deaden the sound with a block wall. It's not going to happen. It's just not going to go away. Newton-Huckabay: Well, there is nothing we can do that's going to make the sound on this property go away, because it's got a pizza parlor, a movie gallery, a furniture store, a gas station, and a car wash. O'Brien: I agree with that, but the only thing I think of -- right now the only problem we have right now is the dumpster making the noise. We had a store there with other Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission May 3, 2007 Page 51 of 62 potential noise makers, the scooters, et cetera, then, you have got more problems. Moe: Well, each one of those -- each one of those stores has a dumpster to deal with. O'Brien: Yeah. Rohm: Okay. Newton-Huckabay: My personal opinion is that the car wash probably makes more noise than anything on that site, with those vacuums and et cetera. And, then -- but I -- Rohm: My last final comments on this application are that the C-C is the predominate use within this development currently and -- as in the Maverick and the car wash are almost half of this whole development and to grant a conversion from C-N to C-C seems to be in order from that perspective alone. The noise that currently exists within this total development, my personal opinion is isn't going to be significantly changed by the addition of the scooter store. That's -- that's just my opinion. I do think that it is appropriate to require that the developer enhance the existing buffer zone and if that means doubling the number of trees that are there or -- I kind of agree with Commissioner O'Brien that a block wall won't do much to remove the noise, but possibly the absorption of noise by a more solid tree line from east to west may be more appropriate than a block wall. But the fact of the matter is is that is a very very busy commercial development and it has been for a number of years and whether you put a scooter store in or not, it's going to be a very well developed commercial section and in my mind what we can do today is help alleviate some of those things that currently exist by the granting of a rezone and the conditional use and overall I believe that the benefits to the community will be enhanced. That's my thoughts. So, with that being said, I think that pretty well concludes each of us voicing our opinion and I'd like to hear a motion. And, Mr. Siddoway, you seem to have had the best handle on the various ordinances and so would you care to give it a shot? Siddoway: I will give it a shot. Rohm: Okay. Thank you. Siddoway: Mr. Chairman, after considering all staff, applicant, and public testimony, I move to recommend -- I'm going to do these one at a time -- approval to the City Council of RZ 07-008, as presented in the staff report for the hearing date of May 3rd, 2007, with the fOllowing modifications to the staff report. In the development agreement I would propose that the following three uses for the site be conditional uses and not permitted uses. They would include fuel sales, vehicle car washing facilities, and building material sales. Further, I would like to see the dumpster location relocated to the east, so that it's -- instead of being adjacent to the residential -- Vienna Woods Subdivision, it's -- Newton-Huckabay: Vineyards. Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission May 3, 2007 Page 52 of 62 Siddoway: Oh. Vineyards. Thank you. Sorry. Vineyards Subdivision. It shifts at least to where it's adjacent to the church parking. And, then, I'd like to see the landscape buffer area along the south enhanced -- and I realize this is partly addressed -- I'd like to emphasize that it needs to be a solid vegetative screen, because I think the vegetation will help do more to buffer sound. End of motion. Newton-Huckabay: So, you're not proposing a new fence? Siddoway: I did not propose the block wall. Rohm: Could I get a second? Okay. I'm going to second that. I think I -- as Chairman I can second that. So, it's been moved and seconded that we forward onto City Council recommending approval of RZ 07-008, to include all staff reports, with the aforementioned modification. All those in favor say aye. Opposed same sign? Siddoway: Motion failed. Rohm: Motion didn't pass. MOTION FAILED: TWO AYES. THREE NAYS. Rohm: Okay. So-- Moe: Mr. Chairman, could I get a clarification of the maker of the motion earlier? Rohm: Yes. Moe: In regards to the landscaping, you were just looking for a -- a little bit more screening of that or are we looking to widen that and put more vegetation in there? Just exactly what were you looking at there? Siddoway: I'm looking to add trees within the existing width, but enough trees to make it a solid screen. Moe: Okay. Mr. Chairman, the staff -- Amanda, could you -- you talked earlier about the width of that area and that takes us from -- from the strip mall area just to the east to the Dominoes; is that correct? Was how wide? Hess: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, the landscape buffer up to this point, which, actually, this is the Dominoes right here, the line divides it right here, that is where the 19, 20 foot wide landscape buffer ends and it tapers down to a 11 feet to the rest of the property here. Moe: So, Mr. Siddoway, you were speaking of just the 19 foot wide area that you would do additional screening in? Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission May 3, 2007 Page 53 of 62 Siddoway: I think that's the most concern. I could -- I think there is room with the 19 feet to do evergreen trees. In 11 feet I don't think there is room to do the width of the base for evergreen trees, but I could say requiring the additional trees that are added to evergreens, so that they, you know, have their foliage year around and provide buffer year around. But I thJnk it would need to be something else. Rohm: The arborvitaes I think could -- Siddoway: You could use the arborvitaes and junipers that were talked about in the last application in the narrower areas. Moe: I guess I would be kind of curious to at least get some additional landscaping east of -- you know. Siddoway: I would support that. Moe: To the church parking lot. Siddoway: You bet. Moe: Basically, what I'm looking at is if, in fact, we don't do the full expanse of a block wall and whatnot, that I would like to see that all the way through there with landscaping, so I -- Siddoway: Yeah. Entire south side. Moe: Yes. O'Brien: I need to ask a question on the -- so, you didn't mention a block wall being added to your proposal, but does the current receptacle ~~ the trash receptacle have -- is it out in the open? I don't know. How do I find that out? Is it surrounded by a block wall, like so many businesses have? Hood: Mr. Chair, Commissioner O'Brien, any relocation of the dumpster will require three sided screening. So, it's open on one side so SSC can get at it, but screened on the other three sides. O'Brien: Right. I have seen a lot of businesses have walls around a -- the trash area, which maybe would satisfy some of the concerns of not having to build a block wall all the way around the building, but maybe if the trash receptacle is such an issue, that might be -- Rohm: I think what he's saying that if we relocate the dumpster, the relocated, sir, will have a block wall on three sides around. Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission May 3, 2007 Page 54 of 62 O'Brien: A screen or something. Rohm: No. The relocated dumpster would be required to have a block wall around three sides with access from the -- in this case it would be the north side. Hood: Mr. Chair, I should clarify. It could be a cedar fence, too. It just needs to be screened. So, it wouldn't be -- it wouldn't have to be a block wall, it would just need to be screened with a solid material. So, they could do wood fencing or some other way to screen -- visually screen, not noise screen. So, that's by ordinance. I'm just telling you what the UDC says. Rohm: And we can stipulate what -- Hood: You bet. You bet. Rohm: -- wall would be required. Hood: Yes, sir. Moe: I guess I'd just make a point on that. Quite frankly, unless you're moving the trash to the north side of the building, you're still going to hear it. O'Brien: Yeah. Moe: Whatever you do it's still going to be there. I'm sure it's going to be in the back of the building somewhere and that sound is going to be there. So, I don't -- I don't know what we are gaining by moving it a little farther to the east or putting something around it. I think, basically, a call to SEC or SSC -- anyway -- Newton-Huckabay: We feel better. Moe: Yeah. Anyway -- so, if the maker of the former motion, if you'd like to redo that a little bit, with maybe some of the stuff we have discussed, maybe we will get a different opinion. Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Chair, I want to add -- I'm going back and reviewing my notes and the letters from the neighbors and it mentioned enough interest in a block wall did come up that I found a couple times, so I would still like to see with that zoning change the addition of a block wall. Rohm: Mr. Siddoway, would you like to restate your -- or make another motion to see if we can get some concurrence? Siddoway: I'm just trying to -- I'm not sure I understand the additions that you're looking for, Commissioner Moe. Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission May 3, 2007 Page 55 of 62 Moe: Well, you -- in your earlier motion you were not taking your landscape all the way to the east -- Siddoway: Okay. Moe: You were just looking to do some more in that nine foot wide area only and not the rest of it. And just a comment to Commissioner Huckabay -- Newton-Huckabay: Newton-Huckabay. Moe: Newton-Huckabay. Excuse me. And that would be -- I, too, would like to see the block wall, but at the same point with the fact that the Maverick and the car wash are already -- are, basically, a C-C right now and all they would to do is go back in for, you know, a CUP for any expansion like we talked earlier, the likelihood of them getting that would probably -- possibly could happen. So, my point is is I think if we could get some additional screening and whatnot -- I would think I'm going to be in favor of not putting a block wall, because I realize they want it, but I think that's probably more of a burden to the developer and it's not necessary, considering the fact that what Maverick and the car wash are already in for the C-C. Rohm: Okay. Commissioner Siddoway, I think we are ready. Siddoway: Okay, Mr. Chairman. I'd like to make a motion that -- to recommend approval to the City Council of RZ 07 -008, with the requirement added in the development agreement that fuel sales, vehicular -- vehicle washing facilities and building material sales are all conditional uses on the site. That the landscape buffer along the entire south boundary of the project be beefed up with additional landscaping, preferably evergreen where ever the width allows it, but -- and possibly all the way across if the arborvitaes and junipers will suffice. But I'd like to really see trees of some form along that entire south property line within the existing landscape areas. I would also like to see the dumpster relocated to the east still and I would actually support that relocated dumpster required to be within a concrete block enclosure on at least three sides and in compliance with screening requirements per city code. End of motion. Moe: I'll second. Rohm: It's been moved and seconded to forward onto City Council recommending approval of RZ 07-008, to include all staff report, with the aforementioned modification. All those in favor say aye. Opposed same sign? And just to get an accurate assessment here, I believe Commissioner O'Brien and Newton-Huckabay voted against it and Commissioner Siddoway, Moe and Rohm voted for it. Motion passes. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. TWO NAYS. Rohm: We still have the Conditional Use Permit to address and, Commissioner Siddoway, I think you're on a roll. Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission May 3, 2007 Page 56 of 62 Siddoway: Well, Mr. Chairman, I am in favor of the use. I do share the concerns about the noise. I'll just try to make this into a motion. After considering all staff, applicant, and public testimony, I move to recommend approval to City Council of CUP 07-007, as presented in the staff report for the hearing date of May 3rd, 2007, with the following additional conditions: That -- to emphasize that no outdoor sales are permitted. That there be no test rides on the site. And that the rear doors be closed whenever power tools are being used. End of motion. Rohm: Second. It's been moved and seconded that we forward onto -- well, no, that we approve CUP 07-007, all those -- Hess: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, because you have a rezone in conjunction with the Conditional Use Permit -- Rohm: Oh, it will go onto City Council. Hess: -- it will go onto City Council. Rohm: Okay. All right. Excuse me. Then, let me restate this. At this time we have a motion and a second to forward onto City Council recommending approval of CUP 07- 007, to include all staff report, with the aforementioned additional conditions. All those in favor say aye. Opposed the same sign? There are three votes against and two in favor. Motion denied. MOTION FAILED: TWO AYES. THREE NAYS: Rohm: I don't think that we can leave this just hanging as it is, so I -- Siddoway: Let's have some discussion. Rohm: Let's have some more discussion here. To start off with, one of you that have voted against the motion, I'd like to hear from Commission Moe. What would it take to get your approval on this? Moe: Mr. Chair, I -- again, I'm very concerned about the use at this facility at this site. As far as trying to service the scooters and whatnot, the discussion of doing that to the north, that really had -- it did not come up in the -- in the motion that it would be done there, but at the same point now you're asking for code enforcement to verify that all the time and I just don't see that that's going to be done. I'm just not sure that this is a good location, you know, for this business and I'm having a hard time trying to accept that it can be run in a safe manner at this location. Rohm: Thank you. Newton-Huckabay: Without-- Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission May 3, 2007 Page 57 of 62 Rohm: Commissioner Newton-Huckabay. Newton-Huckabay: Well, it's an enforcement nightmare with all the conditions put on the operation. I will offer an alternative. After considering all staff, applicant, and public testimony, I move to recommend denial to the City Council of file number CUP 07-007 as presented in the Public Hearing on May 3rd for the following reasons: We do not feel that the use of a small motorcycle store is appropriate in this particular area and that it would not be compatible with the uses and residences around it. End of motion. O'Brien: Second. Rohm: It's been moved and seconded to forward onto City Council recommending denial of CUP 07-007. All those in -- Nary: Mr. Chairman? Mr. Chairman, before you vote on that motion, you're going to need to include more reasons as to what they could do to be approved. Just so you know, when -~ I guess you could vote on this motion. If the motion is approved you're going to have to establish a record as to what they could do to be approved. The state law requires that. Newton-Huckabay: Okay. I apologize. Nary: That's fine. Newton-Huckabay: For me the deal breaker, personally, was the block wall. Moe: That's a different motion. Newton-Huckabay: I understand that, but not having a block wall around the development was -- or for the intention of putting one, was a deal breaker for me. And- - do you have anything to add? O'Brien: Well, yeah, concerns I had were several of the homeowners expressed those. Safety is one. Noise is the other. But the misuse of the intent of that business is what I was really concerned with. Again, like was just mentioned, I think was that we could have all the intention in the world, but we are going to be bandaiding this thing forever. I just don't think it's going to work. I just don't think it's a good -- good place to put this type of function or business in that particular area. It just doesn't make sense to me. Like I said earlier, it was zoned for C-N for a reason and to change it, even though it was voted for, but it's -- still I just don't think it's going to be a good step. Rohm: Is that sufficient to -- Newton-Huckabay: I doubt it. Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission May 3, 2007 Page 58 of 62 Rohm: Pardon? Newton-Huckabay: I doubt it. Nary: Mr. Chairman? Moe: I -- I'm sorry. Nary: Oh, no, go ahead. Moe: I guess the only point that I would probably make is that one of the ways I would assume that I would probably vote on it is -- if there was no service component to this facility. It would basically be a sale only, no service, then, I would probably go for it. O'Brien: I could go for that. Moe: Because of the components of the service aspect of it, those are my concerns, and what happens during the service aspect. Newton-Huckabay: I hadn't thought of that, but I do agree with that. That seems to be where we are placing all the restrictions -- Moe: Yes. Newton-Huckabay: -- on the business. Again, I'm not known to be a huge proponent of restricting hours and that type of thing, so maybe those restricted hours for me as well. So, cinder block fence, no service component in the business __ Moe: Actually, the hours were fine. They were going to do it until 6:00 p.m. Newton-Huckabay: Yeah. Moe: I have no problem with that. I would have no problem with the -_ Newton-Huckabay: Okay. I won't add that in. Moe: But the service aspect I think is the main component. Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Nary does that -- Nary: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, Commissioner Newton-Huckabay, maybe I misheard it, but I thought part of your original concern was the sales operation as well in that particular location. Now, maybe -- is that no longer a concern? I did hear that service use -- it would be very difficult to establish as a -- reason what they could do to be approved is to assure that their intent wouldn't change. I don't think we could really do that. But that there is not adequate sound buffering, even with the addition of Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission May 3, 2007 Page 59 of 62 the landscaping is one thing I have heard. The service component and the restrictions that are necessary to even attempt to make it compatible, is something they would have to change, but -- did I misunderstand? I thought there was some concerns about the constrictions in that lot in regards to the parking or in regards to the front of the building, to be able to even operate the sales, if they are going to be out in the front of that. Now, maybe I misunderstood that. Newton-Huckabay: Me specifically, no -- Nary: Okay. Newton-Huckabay: -- that was not my concern. Nary: Okay. Okay. So, it's just the service component and the fact that the buffering between the neighborhood and the business, that the vegetation -- the increased vegetation wasn't adequate. There would have to be an addition to that. Okay. That's fine. Newton-Huckabay: Can that stand on my amended motion, without making it again? Rohm: Works for me. Newton-Huckabay: Okay. Nary: One more question, I'm sorry, Mr. Chairman. Commissioner O'Brien also brought up the safety aspect, I think, of the lot and the constriction. Is that everyone's concern as well about being able to operate the business or is that connected to the service part of the business or both? O'Brien: To me it's both. Newton-Huckabay: I have no safety as part of my motion. Is not the most safest intersection and parking lot, but I don't feel like this use is going to -- in my motion I do not feel like the use of this -- of a scooter store would make it anymore unsafe. O'Brien: But -- can I reiterate something? Rohm: Absolutely. Newton-Huckabay: It depends on if you're trying to add it to my motion. O'Brien: The concern I had with the safety is that when you go and purchase something, like you purchase a car, you got to test drive it. You're going to ride that thing somewhere. That's a safety concern for the neighborhood and for the people in and around. So, along with that service issue, we have test driving of these vehicles. Where is it going to be done? It's going to be done in and around the -- the business. Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission May 3, 2007 Page 60 of 62 Newton-Huckabay: I guess those are public roads. Nary: Mr. Chairman, I think part of the staff's recommendation and what was proposed was that they would not be test driving the vehicles on the site. So, I think they have addressed that. So, I don't think we could use that as a basis of what they could do to be approved. Rohm: I think the two other issues, the service and the noise abatement, that you had addressed those -- Newton-Huckabay: Yeah. Those have been for reasons -- Rohm: For denial. Newton-Huckabay: Or things they could do to reverse -- okay. My motion is still to recommend denial. Those two activities could take place to reverse that decision. Clear? Moe: I would second that. Newton-Huckabay: Caleb's got me. Rohm: All right. Okay. I think that the intent of that motion is understood. All those -- it's been moved and seconded to forward onto City Council recommending denial of CUP 07-007, to include all staff report and the aforementioned modification based upon sound barrier and servicing -- servicing of the scooters. All those in favor say aye. All those opposed say aye. There are three in favor of the motion of denial and two against it, so motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. TWO NAYS. Rohm: Both of these items will be heard again before City Council. This is a recommending body and they will be heard again and so for those of you that have spent your evening with us, thank you very much, and you will get one more shot at it. Thanks for coming in. Item 11: Public Hearing: RZ 07-008 Request for a Rezone of approximately 4 acres from a C-N zone to a C-C zone for Lots 1 - 5, Block 1 of the Corner at Vineyards Subdivision for Cherry Wood Village by Richard Brown and Roy Brown - SWC of Cherry Lane and Linder Road: Item 12: Public Hearing: CUP 07-007 Request for a Conditional Use Permit to allow retail sale and service of motor scooters within the C-C zoning district on Lot 3, Block 1, of the Corner at Vineyards Subdivision for