July 12, 2005 CC Mtg Mins
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July 12,2005
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Wardle: Madam Mayor, I move that we approve Item No. 24, PP 05-021, preliminary
plat for Redfish Subdivision.
Donnell: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to approve Item 24. Mr. Berg, will you call roll. With
the Findings.
Roll-Call: Bird, absent; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 17:
Item 18:
Item 19:
Public Hearing: AZ 05-007 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 43.18
acres from RUT to R-8 zone for Bellinaham Park Subdivision by
Gemstar Development, LLC - north of Amity Road and east of South
Locust Grove Road:
Public Hearing: PP 05-009 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 166
building lots and 37 common lots on 43.18 acres in a proposed R-8 zone
for Bellinaham Park Subdivision by Gemstar Development, LLC - north
of Amity Road and east of South Locust Grove Road:
Public Hearing: CUP 05-008 Request for a Planned Development
consisting of 166 residential units with reductions to the minimum
requirements for lot size, street frontage and yard setbacks for
Bellinaham Park Subdivision by Gemstar Development, LLC - north of
Amity Road and east of South Locust Grove Road:
De Weerd: Thank you. Items 17, 18 and 19 are public hearings on AZ 05-007, PP 05-
009, and CUP 05-008. We will open these public hearings with staff comments.
Canning: Madam Mayor, I need to scroll up for a bit. Okay. Thank you for waiting.
This is Bellingham Park. It is located south of Victory Road and east of Locust Grove
Road. That's Locust Grove there. It is a request for annexation and zoning, preliminary
plat and Conditional Use Permit for a planned development. This project is 166 single-
family residents and 22 common lots on 43.18 acres and they have proposed an R-8
zone. The planned development is requested for a reduction in minimum lot size and
that would be from 6,500 square feet to 4,140 square feet minimum and for street
frontage from 65 feet to 31 feet minimum. And also yard setbacks. The initial request
was for a side yard of zero feet and, then, five feet for rear side entry garages.
Amenities are a 2.6 acre park -- 2.67. Sorry. And, then, other open spaces, the 1.21
acres, .77 acres, and .67 acres. The existing home is to be remodeled as a clubhouse
and that's in this area and I had a picture of that existing home, albeit from a distance
later. And multi-use pathways are also proposed and I'd like to let the applicant show
those pathways. The gross residential density is 2.84 dwelling units per acre. There
are a couple other issues. One is that the Ten Mile Creek, as shown here, does have a
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July 12,2005
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designated flood plane and that was on the original one I showed you. It comes pretty
much parallel to the creek and, then, goes in at this feature here. There is weir here
where a drainage facility goes across the Ten Mile. I also have pictures of that that I will
get to in a moment. The applicant intends to address that flood plane through a letter of
map revision. They have not completed that yet, but that is addressed in the conditions
of approval and we will get into those details as well. Okay. Here is another picture of
the flood plane. You can see it in the blue. You can see how it backs up on that -- at
that intersection where the weir feature is. This is -- on the property this is the
Ridenbaugh Canal, so that was the other major feature. This where the future park
would be at the entrance of the facility. I believe this is Locust Grove over there. This is
that weir structure with Ten Mile below. There is water in this structure going this way
and, then, Ten Mile is coming this way. This is looking into the site. So, this is actually -
- this would be on the Bellingham Park site and we will see those later in the -- one of
the other pictures. This was that specific condition -related to the LOMAR and, basically,
what it says is that if they don't get that changed, then, they need to come back with a
new preliminary plat or they need to not develop in those flood plane areas. The
Planning and Zoning Commission did hold a hearing on June 2nd, 2005, and they have
recommended approval with conditions. The key issues of discussion -- there was
about eight, so I will go through those. The first was connectivity of Bellingham Park to
Messina Meadows, which is the next project, and they connect along their eastern
property line and, then, looking up the open -- open space and pathway systems in
those two projects, as well as the connecting road system! The location of the multi-use
pathway for the Ten Mile Creek and the Ridenbaugh were discussed. The impact of
groundwater on the site, the number of monitoring wells and the consistency of the soil
to maintain building sites with high groundwater and compacted soils was discussed as
well. That comes up in the soils report. The Ten Mile Creek flood plane, as I have
described, the mixed medium and low-density housing products and lot sizes, especially
south of the project. Conversion of the existing home site on the proposed Lot 15,
Block 5, to an amenity, and the addition or relocation of open space lots to facilitate
maintenance and protection of the Ridenbaugh Canal and the Ten Mile Creek
watelWays. And, then, also the Commission discussed having no zero lot line products
included within the development. Those that testified in favor were Dave Bailey with
Bailey Engineering, Susan Wildwood, Steve Glasgow and Gem Star Development. No
one spoke in opposition, although there were several people commenting, including
Michael Gray, who Jives on South Locust Grove, Jason Wolf, also who lives on South
Locust Grove. Kara Dalton. She is south of the property on Ten Mile Creek. And Kent
Brown with Briggs Engineering, who was testifying on behalf of Messina Meadows, I
believe. The key Commission changes to staff's initial recommendation -- the
Commission asked the applicant to submit the amended and revised preliminary plat to
staff prior to the City Council hearing. Staff received a revised drawing on June 16th.
All references or approvals should be from the final drawing dated June 12th, 2005.
The Commission also asked to add a condition number five to the planned development
regarding no zero lot line properties. With regard to outstanding issues, although staff
was able to develop conditions of approval that would enable staff and the Planning and
Zoning Commission to make the findings for approval, staff wants to be clear that there
are severe -- at least significant constraints on this property. This particular property I
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think has some of the highest groundwater levels we have seen, coupled with some of
the most poor soils in those areas that we have seen. And the flood plan issue is still a
little bit outstanding, even though staff has come up with conditions of approval related
to that. So, we just want the Council to be aware of these concerns. It does, however,
come forward with a recommendation for approval from the Planning and Zoning
Commission. With that I can let you ask if you have more specific questions on some of
the soils or high groundwater issues. I think Mr. Watson is better equipped to handle
those questions.
De Weerd: Anna, with those concerns, are you requiring or while requiring individual
each lot has some kind of a system -- a pumping system -- and for the life of me I can't
remember what it's called right now. French drain or the sump pumps that --
Canning: I don't believe we are. I can look through the conditions of approval while
Brad --
Watson: Madam Mayor, Council Members, condition number 17 in the preliminary plat
requires that all residential construction that falls into certain soils groups, comply with
the residential code and the site specific number pertaining to drains around concrete
foundations and drainage systems and that sort of thing. So, there is a site-specific
comment in there that refers to the building code.
De Weerd: Okay. As long as people understand that that is what it means. Maybe that
needs to be clarified or a little bit stronger language. I don't know. I know when you
have this kind of situation and, then, you have any poor grading on any of those lots, it's
just a mess and it pits neighbor against neighbor -- it's really an ugly situation. We have
had it happen before. If this is already a concern, it probably needs to be looked as a
requirement in that entire area, but I would ask the developer to make comment on that.
Council, do you have any specific questions for staff at this time? Okay. Would the
applicant like to comment.
Wildwood: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. For the record, my
name is Susan Wildwood, I'm an attorney with offices in Boise and I'm here on behalf of
Gem Star Properties and I'll leap right into the breech on the Mayor's question. With
regard to those areas that are within the flood plane, Mr. Dave Bailey is here and he can
answer all the technical issues, there has been a lot of work on this project, but in areas
where -- that are within the flood area, the other option is -- and we have actually
suggested this to staff -- that we would proceed also with slab on grade, so it would
avoid the crawl space kinds of issues. So, that is something that will have been
resolved before we come back to you with the final plat. So, we will be looking at the
FEMA letter revision, we will be looking at slab on grade, so that we don't run into the
crawl space issues that have occurred in other areas. I would like to also thank staff.
We have had a significant amount of work, a number of meetings with your staff, Chief
Musser, I haven't exactly talked to Chief Anderson, but we have had a lot of work on this
particular project trying to resolve a lot of issues. We went through a redesign with
regard to the roads, so that we changed the road sections, which is what resulted in the
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reduction from 37 common lots down to 22. And if I can just go through those very
quickly. It may be a bit easier to see. I mean those blue lines are a little bit tougher, so
we will show you the pretty one here.
De Weerd: Could you put that up on the stand or up by the screen? Yeah.
Rountree: Should be one right there on the podium.
De Weerd: You can either do that or use the microphone and point at it.
Wildwood: Actually, that might be a bit better, if you don't mind, Mayor. With regard to
this project -- now, can everybody see? Am lout of the way enough? The large area
that Anna has referred to, we have a park in this area. There will be a gazebo. This is
an open space area that's designed for recreation. We have moved the more formal
recreation, if you will, away from the -- the road, so that we have a basketball court over
in this direction in this park area. We have the existing residences here. We had
planned on remodeling that residence. I just received information today from the
architect that what we are going to have to do is not remodel it, but tear it down and I
have some elevations showing you what that clubhouse will be. So, this will be an
amenity with a parking lot, a pool, a clubhouse, this large park amenity in this direction,
pocket parks in these areas. We have this park area and this park area. This connects
in with Messina park. The pathway comes up along the Ten Mile, it comes in, goes into
Messina park in this area to connect with their pathway system. The pathway, then,
comes on over toward Locust Grove, providing connection to the properties to the west
and, then, goes up again and connects to the north, again, with the Messina parkway. I
worked with Chief Musser, I spent some time talking to staff. Also Tammy Anderson at
the Nampa-Meridian Irrigation District. This facility Anna has mentioned up here on the
Ridenbaugh and Ten Mile is -- they have actually completely revamped that spillway.
It's now all-electronic. They were very adamant that we keep all traffic away from both
the Ridenbaugh and the Ten Mile in this area, one, because of the extreme danger in
this spillway, it can blowout in about five seconds and change the water direction,
velocity, at cetera. Plus all of the electronics. Nampa-Meridian actually has a facility
across the road here, so they would not allow any connectivity onto their property in any
event, have wanted to pull all the traffic away. So, I met with Doug Strong of parks, we
looked at the Comprehensive Plan, where could we pull it away and still achieve the
city's desire to have a location for the regional pathway system still connecting into
Messina and accomplish Nampa-Meridian Irrigation District's desire to pull the public
away from that. So, we have all of our common area down away from waterways and
the dangers that they provide. I also have -- on the photo board that's leaning up
against there, the product for the alley-loaded lots. Those will not be attached housing,
but that gives you a sample of the housing that we expect to see here on the alley-
loaded lots in this particular area. And, again, we connect to the Messina park on the
top and so that it matches right in and provides connectivity clear through both of those
projects from Locust Grove and there are bridges -- you will be seeing some information
from Mr. Brown after you consider this particular case, showing where the bridges
connect north and south. There is a requirement that we have secondary access before
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July 12, 2005
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developing more than 50 lots. We concur with all the recommendations of staff and Mr.
Bailey, who is here to answer all of those other technical questions that I cannot, will
provide you that additional information on FEMA and any of the engineering questions
that you mdig~t haveh. Witdh.~ut bef laborin~f' the point, w~ dcertainly choncur wit~ staff's ,l..
recommen atlons, t e con Itlons or specl IC approval, an request t at you give us a1
favorable nod and with that I would be happy to stand for any questions, Madam Mayor. t
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you, Susan. Council, any questions for the applicant? Do
you have any questions for the engineer?
Rountree: Yes.
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Bailey. Thank you, Susan.
Bailey: Madam Mayor, Councilmembers, my name is David Bailey, Bailey Engineering.
My office address is 1500 East Iron Eagle Drive in Eagle, representing Gem Star
Development for the Bellingham project. I can go ahead and answer questions or I can
talk a little bit about what we talked about so far and kind of give you an overview of the
work we have done on the project. So, either way you want to go. I guess I'll just
answer questions, if that's what you'd like me to do.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, if you want to give a information that would helpful.
Bailey: Okay. I guess the -- in one, I feel like I have been a failure throughout this with
your staff and with some folks in explaining what the groundwater problem is -here and
what we are going to do about it and have it done and, hopefully, we can get through
that, but we have done extensive groundwater monitoring on the site, have done -- and,
in fact, since the planning and zoning meeting we have actually added five more
piezometers to measure the groundwater level out there and the thing I'm -- have been
earlier in talking about it, is that the flood plane does not equal the high groundwater
and the flood plane is not the cause of the high groundwater, the actual highest
groundwater closest to the surface level is, actually, in the northwest corner of the site
and that's -- and that's part of the reason that we chose not to have any houses in that
area, because we can keep that dry, but we don't want to be filling that area and we
know that's where the highest groundwater level is. The groundwater on the site is
definitely caused by irrigation and although there is a regional groundwater problem and
a lot of the projects we deal with we have perched water table, we have water sitting on
top, and there is not necessarily water underneath that, but there is definitely -- from the
groundwater that we hit here, the groundwater continues down below that we certainly
understand that -- that area. The drainage for this property is -- is the Ten Mile Creek.
The property, unfortunately, drains on the surface from the southeast to the northwest
and so the grading on the site goes to northwest here. So, our highest groundwater
level problems are not near the creek where the flood plane is, but, actually, in the
northwest corner and there was no water outlet from that corner for the surface irrigation
to go through there. And we do have some water in that area that's approximately 1.3
feet is the measured level. When the field is actually being irrigated there is standing
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water in that northwest corner, but the groundwater measurements we have made when
active irrigation is not going on, is showing us that, actually, within the week that we are
about 1.3 feet below surface level in the northwest corner of the site. As to the flood
plane on this project, we have actually completed all the study and all of the calculations
and hired Paul Coons as our engineer to do the flood plane study on this, completed all
that, and he said, well, okay, as soon as you remove the culverts from the Ten Mile
Drain and do the grading in there, I can submit the letter to FEMA. So, it's not that we
failed to submit the letter, it's that we can't until we actually do the work that's in there
and provide him the information to submit that letter. So, we are ready to do that, but
we are not going to go dig those pipes out of there until we think we can move forward
with the project. So, that's the condition we are in there. We are definitely in agreement
with the staff conditions and I know your staff has put a lot of effort into this in helping
coming up with conditions that the city could feel comfortable with on this end and we
can meet those conditions. They include contours that show the actual high
groundwater levels throughout the site. So, groundwater level contours that are
showing where we are, and it also will show the finished floor elevation of all the houses
to be built on the project. And while that may seem onerous, it's something that we do
quite often for a lot of subdivisions. In fact, the city -- excuse me -- Ada County has
been requiring that on all their subdivisions for quite some time, even when there is not
groundwater, that we provide these plans that your building department keeps and can
make sure that the builder is following those recommendations. We have a
geotechnical engineer involved. Any fill we do on the site will certainly be compacted
and tested and all documented and that will be done during the construction process
and, then, they are requiring an individual compaction test on each lot and, then, that
grading plan will also specify that you're building permit will also specify that all of the
houses must be built using slab on grade construction and not with crawl spaces. The
last item I have on there is that we have met with the Ada County Highway District on
several occasions and in the most recent occasion confirmed with them that they were
comfortable with the roadside swale, which is an approved road section that they have,
so we are not going to have retention ponds or storm drain ponds on the site that could
contain water over a long period of time and there will be roadside swales that are
constructed in accordance with the Ada County Highway District standards and their
staff in our meetings have indicated that we meet all of their requirements to construct
that alternate road section. So, I think we have -- and it is a difficult site. There is
certainly a lot of things to go on here and I think the additional conditions of approval
that are placed on it are appropriate and necessary to make sure that we don't have the
problems that the Mayor was discussing with the neighbors in the future and we have
safely and effective, in a helping manner, build homes on the property. So, given that, I
would be glad to answer any other questions you might have.
De Weerd: Any questions from Council?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
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Rountree: You indicated that your resolution of the flood plane issue is installation of
new culverts on Ten Mile; correct?
Bailey: There is, actually, three 36-inch culverts that's in Ten Mile Creek at this point.
Our proposal is to remove all three of those, because they are the ones that are causing
the water to flow outside of the channel during a flood -- a hundred year flood event per
the calculations in any case. So, we will remove all three of those 36-inch culverts and
we will actually place an 84-inch culvert at the road crossing location, that we are
showing going across the Ten Mile Creek here. That is, actually, Nampa-Meridian
Irrigation District's property and we have had discussions with them and we will submit
our application -- all the construction plans to them to remove those culverts and to
place a new one and, of course, there is Army Corps of Engineer permits and EPA
permits that are required to do that and license agreements associated with that. So,
we are working all those actually right now. We have started working on them already.
Rountree: Do you have a willing participant in the form of the irrigation district?
Bailey: With Nampa -- yes. Yes. I actually talked with John Anderson of the irrigation
district way early on about this project and about the Ten Mile Creek and what would be
appropriate to do and these conditions are on here with the flood plane and this issue
actually was in Tuscany to the north of this project and they had the same conditions in
Messina to the southeast of this project. And, actually, Messina Meadows needs us to
pull those three culverts to get rid of this flood plane that's on their project. They have
got the same study -- or an additional portion of that study completed for their project.
They need these culverts removed in order for them to get the LOMAR done on their
project as well. So, they kind of work together.
Rountree: You mentioned that the water table or first water or whatever the situation is
in northwest portion of your project is where -- it's closest to the surface. Has the site
been evaluated for wetlands and does the Corps claim any jurisdiction over any portion
or all of this area?
Bailey: We have walked the site with our geotechnical engineer in that end, we have
dealt with quite a few of the wetlands issues. In fact, we had about I think six
applications before the Corps right now and we don't feel that we have a wetlands issue
that needs to be handled on this site at this point.
Rountree: You talked about the roadside swale typical section on road or roads. Would
that be typical section on all of the collectors in the subdivision or is that primarily going
to be in the main access --
Bailey: All of the streets -- the public streets within the subdivision are proposed to be --
and it's shown on the preliminary plat that we submitted -- a 36-foot edge-to-edge --
actually, it's 32 feet of asphalt and, then, two foot ribbon curb on either side, and eight
foot wide swale, and a detached sidewalk outside of that. So, all of interior streets are
proposed to be built to that standard. We are discussing Ada County Highway District --
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we have an alternate, instead of the ribbon curb, to do a vertical curb and have specific
points where the water could discharge. So, along the north side of the main entry road
that runs along the south of the western part of the project, doing a vertical curb on the
north side there, because we don't have lots accessing from that north side. And we
are going to do vertical curb for Locust Grove to the first intersection on the entrance
road. But the roadside would be all the rest of the interior roads would be the roadside
swales type construction.
Rountree: And whose jurisdiction would be the swale and -- be ACHD's or the property
owners?
Bailey: Yes. And what we have actually done is the right of way that we are proposing
is 62 feet wide, as opposed to your standard 50 feet wide. We have seen some
applications where they place the sidewalk in an easement outside of the right of way.
Our section includes all of the road, swale, and sidewalk within the right of way section.
So, our setbacks would be measured from the property line and wouldn't have to be
pushed back for the -- for the sidewalk to make sure you got 20 feet in front of the
building.
Rountree: And who takes care of that no man's land?
Bailey: Ada County Highway District and there is a licensed agreement for
maintenance of that swale in front of the house by the individual property owners.
Rountree: Is there a standard identified in the CC&Rs?
Bailey: I'm not familiar with the CC&Rs, but Susan Wildwood says there will be.
Rountree: Thank you.
De Weerd: I guess I just want some clarity. The high groundwater is caused by the
culverts?
Bailey: Madam Mayor, the high groundwater is caused by irrigation. The flood plane,
which is a -- flood plane, as shown on these maps, is a calculated number and I guess
to back up a little bit and maybe answer that a little better, is that the highest
groundwater is in that northwest corner and that's where the irrigation water that
currently irrigates the site and runs off the site to the south of this, collects in that area
and it can't get to the Ten Mile Drain, because it's uphill that way. And so it does pond
in that area. There is no drain to the west across Locust Grove on this property. So,
that the flood plane is a different issue. It's actually a calculated number and, in fact,
this is what is -- what we call an unnumbered -- currently it's an unnumbered A zone
and in the production of the flood plane maps that FEMA does, they do actual detailed
calculations on some areas and on other areas they look at them from an aerial map
and say here is my flood, let's show a flood plane here. And so even if we were not
going to get rid of the flood plane and we had proposed to build in there, we would have
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to go and do this detailed study just to show how high we would need to build the
houses, because there are no elevations from FEMA associated with unnumbered A
zones. So, we don't even know what that elevation is, all we have is this nondescript
line on a map. So, every time we run into one of these unnumbered A zones in any
project -- and, in fact, again, in Tuscany to the north it was an unnumbered A zone until
Paul Coons did the study and provided that to -- to the developer of Tuscany, showing
that, in fact, the calculated flow for the flood event, the hundred year flood event, really
stays inside the channel. In our case it didn't stay inside the channel. In fact, in their
case they made them pull out a -- I think a 72 inch culvert that was up to the north that
was blocking that they pull. Then, they could show that it would stay in the channel. In
our case, the three 36 inch culverts, once they were removed, the calculation shows
that the flood would stay in the channel and not actually flood into those areas. But
that's talking about a situation of a -- of a one hundred year storm event and the
contributing area of this goes miles south of this project in this channel. And so there is
a calculated volume of water that needs to flow through this area, should there be that
flood event. So, it's kind of independent of the high groundwater issue.
De Weerd: And those calculations are taking into account the different changes with
bringing in fill and all of that, up and down whatever changes are being made.
Bailey: Through all the projects. Yeah. And, actually, with this -- with this current site
and the study we have there now, if we just took a trackhge in there and removed those
three culverts from that area, the calculations show that without any other grading, that
it would maintain the flood within the channel.
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De Weerd: I guess I would just have -- do you have specific builders that would be
building in this subdivision?
Bailey: I do not know the answer to that. The developer usually develops lots and
typically sells them to either a builder or a group of builders, but I don't know the names
of them.
De Weerd: Okay. Well, do they have experience building in these kind of situations?
Bailey: Yes.
De Weerd: And do you have design standards and are some of these dealt with -- the
building specifications and requirements go through the CC&Rs? Okay.
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
Bailey: I'm sorry I'm not very good at that. I normally do dirt.
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
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July 12,2005
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Wardle: If you could point out to me where we are talking about the slab-an-grade
foundations. Is it within the flood zone or is it over here in this corner?
Bailey: It is the entire project. The entire project we will require all houses to be built
with slab-on-grade construction and we will specify in our plan what that finished floor
elevation has to be to make sure that there is proper drainage away from the houses.
And also show lot drainage pattern. So, we will actually grade all of the lot pads with
the conception of the subdivision. They will be all graded. So, the grader needs to go
in, dig the hole for his foundation, set the top of the slab at the elevation that we give
them for the house and, then, do the find grading on the -- on the project.
De Weerd: And who follows up with that? Is that one of our inspectors' responsibility or
is that something monitored through your subdivision?
Watson: Madam Mayor, Councilmembers, it would be something that will be checked
through the building department. There will be a master grading and drainage plan. I
didn't get a chance to really -- and Mr. Bailey did hit some of the highlights of the site-
specific comments -- or condition number 16. It requires this master grading and
drainage plan that will be reviewed by engineering and, then, transferred to the building
department for a follow up. We will not be doing the survey to certify where those are,
but we will be requiring that from the builders or their surveyor.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further questions? Thank you.
Bailey: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. This is a Public Hearing. Is there anyone in the audience who would
like to provide testimony on this application? Please come forward. Please state your
name and address for the record.
Brown: For the record, Kent Brown, 1800 West Overland, Boise, Idaho. I guess I'll tell
you a fable with regards to flood plane. A good story -- at least it's a story that was told
when I was at Boise city and worked for the city with regards to flood plane. J.R.
Simplot has a small house, or used to, that sits up at Bogus Basin Road area and he
has gullies on either side of him. So, what Mr. Bailey was talking about with the gullies
on either side, those are flood ways. So, someone smart from the map says, well,
those are -- have to overlap, because they are so close and Mr. Simplot's house is in a
flood way. Obviously, we have common sense to know that that's not the case, but
that's kind of how those maps were originally done. And so the flood ways that are
shown on here are just lines that there is -- there is streams here and there is a possible
flood way. Mr. Coons has done a detail study and as soon as those three pipes are
removed, that removes it down into the channel. As she stated, we have dealt with
those same issues when we did Tuscany Lakes. Came into the same guidelines that
we were looking at before. The roadside swales that they are talking about are the
same roadside swales that we are using to the north. The highway district has
standards that they want the CC&Rs to look about for the maintenance of those. We
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July 12, 2005
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are very grateful for Mr. Mills that's sitting here and what the highway district's done to
come up with this alternative street section. And particularly in this area, some areas in
Star, they are a great asset. We have already got one plat already done, Messina Hills
Two, and I just took -- you know, different times when we've had those early spring rains
and the ponds were all filled up in the development, but those roadside swales were
dry. It's a great method, it just makes a lot of sense. I understand what the highway
district's concerns are is the long-term getting them into shape and they had the
guidelines and they had the set standards to assure that they are going to be taken care
of. And from a development community standpoint, we want them to work and so we
are very supportive that those happen, too. And I'll stand for any questions.
De Weerd: Any questions for Mr. Brown? Okay. Thank you. Further testimony?
Okay. Final comment?
Wildwood: Just would, again, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, we really have
appreciated the hard work of the staff and all the folks. This has had a really long hard
look and there has been a lot of head scratching, but we think we have come up with a
project that -- because it can be developed appropriately, offers some real advantages
to the City of Meridian and a lot of wonderful amenities to the folks that we hope to have
building in there and the slab on grade is going to avoid a lot of those problems that, as
Mr. Brown pointed out, the CC&Rs are reviewed by the building department, the slab on
grade and the planning ought to bring this project forward and be something the city can
be proud of and thank you very much for your time.
De Weerd: Can you tell me who the builders are in this --
Wildwood: On this particular project I cannot. I know there is a variety of builders that
we will be looking at. I'm not -- I don't have any information that says it's going to be
anyone particular builder. I think there is a group of them, but I'm not sure exactly who
they are. And Mr. Glasgow was not able to be with us tonight, so he could have
probably specified that better than I. So, I'm sorry, I don't have that information.
De Weerd: And I guess I asked it just because of the conditions that we want to assure
-- I would like to be assured that the people that will be building in there know what they
are doing.
Wildwood: Correct. And that's -- by working with the staff and having the level of detail
that we are looking at by requiring the slab on grade, the inspections, the CC&Rs, the
kind of work that Mr. Bailey has done, those kinds of things will go a long way. We are
not going to run into the kind of water in the crawl space that's occurred in some of the
area that have caused problems, not only in Meridian, but also in Boise. By doing all of
these, the compaction on each one of the lots, by having to have the survey for where
the exact locations are of the elevations that Dave was talking about, each one of those
are an extra effort, so that the product itself is really going to be a quality one. We are
not going to have those kinds of problems, simply because of all of the different
elements that have to be in, simply a requirement in the CC&Rs, which, as we all know,
Meridian City Council
July 12,2005
Page 38 of 68
can be changed. These are the grading plans, the building permits; all of those go in
place. So, before a certificate of occupancy is issued~ each one of those technical
requirements are met. Same thing as the LOMAR on the FEMA with the flood plane.
Each one of those items have to be met before development can occur in any of those
areas, particularly in those two phases.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Though not shown or presented to the Council, you have a board up here
with some product. Is that the project that will be delivered on this project or just a
pretty picture?
Wildwood: Well, they are pretty pictures. What these represent are the alley-loaded
homes. They do not show garages at the back. Most people have a question as to
what the alley loads are going to look like, which is why we put this photo board
together. So, this represents alley-loaded properties that are in the area. Some are in
Boise. Some are in some of the other areas. But that's generally the question that we
run into. The CC&Rs will, of course, have that minimum square footage. They will have
the -- shoot, I always forget what it's called. The hard surface that has to be wrapped
on the front, whether it's stone or brick or whatever that sort of thing is specified there.
But this gives you an idea of the alley loads. Because of the different -- different size
that -- and if I can just refer to the drawings again. We put it on this like quadruple
heavy foam board, so if I drop it, I apologize. You will notice that there is a significant
difference in lot sizes. These were negotiated out with the landowners to the west who
have large properties. So, we have got larger properties against them. You have got
the alley loads. So, we have got a significant variety as far as lot sizes and home sizes
in the area. We will see fairly widespread product in just this project alone. And, then,
you have got the differences again in Messina Park and Tuscany to the north.
Rountree: Thank you.
De Weerd: Any further questions? Okay.
Wildwood: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council.
De Weerd: Okay. If there is no further testimony --
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, just because there has been a lot of
discussion about this slab on grade, I did want to point out that staff has not made it a
requirement for the slab on grade construction. It talks about this slab on grade
construction is used in conjunction with typical footings. Builders of each lot shall
comply with all recommendations contained in applicant's geo-technical engineering
Meridian City Council
July 12, 2005
Page 39 of 68
report dated 6/1 0/04. So, it allows for slab on grade and gives them specific conditions
as to what should happen, but it does not currently require slab-on-grade construction.
Rountree: Madam Mayor? Do you have a question?
Wardle: Well, I was just going to --
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Madam Mayor, I was just going to ask for clarification, because I believe my
question to the applicant and the response was that all of the lots will be slab on grade.
So, would planning staff like to add that as a condition of approval?
Canning: Certainly. If the City Council would like to add that as a condition of approval,
that's fine. We just didn't make it a requirement -- I guess we would just leave the
option open. If, for some reason, that slab on grade wasn't appropriate for one lot, it left
it open, but I think -- we don't have any concerns about making it a condition of
approval.
Wardle: Okay.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I have a question for Anna. Would you put this development in context with
what's around it?
Anna: Certainly, sir. And you're going to stump me a little bit, because I'm not sure
where Tuscany begins and Messina begins and Tuscany ends, but I believe that these
are the Tuscany projects and, then, these are the Messina projects over here. And,
then, it -- they come through off of Eagle Road, it connects in, this is the school site, I
believe, and, then, these have gone through final plat through you. I don't think they
have been signed yet. They are not showing up on our -- as platted lots. And if you
had more questions, this man might be able to help me. They are recorded, they are
just not showing up. So, these are all recorded and, then, you have approved final plats
on all of those over here. So, this does connect over through the next application and,
then, back up into Messina and Tuscany.
Rountree: I know that the key along side of that tells me something, but at this point I
can't read it clearly and I have trouble with colors anyway, so -- I think they are all
yellow, but I think they are different shades of yellow.
Canning: R-4 zoning in these areas. This is an R-8 zoning. A little darker. And they
are proposing R-8 zoning. And Messina Meadow is also proposing R-8 zoning.
Meridian City Council
July 12,2005
Page 40 of 68
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Another question. What number or percentage of the lots that we are talking
about that would require reduced frontage and/or lot sizes.
Canning: If you can give me a moment, I could see if it's in the staff report. Madam
Mayor, Members of the Council, 144 of the 166 lots are below the 64 foot minimum
frontage requirement and 135 of the 166 lots are below the 6,500 square foot minimum.
De Weerd: And what's the net density?
Canning: You will have to ask the applicant. I did not find it in --
Rountree: 3.8.
Canning: That's the gross density.
De Weerd: Oh. Yeah. There is no net density.
Canning: I was not able to find a net density either.
De Weerd: I wouldn't have accepted this application. Now, as I understand it, the
number of other lots was reduced. Is that right, Susan? Isn't that what you said? But
the number of building lots were not. Were they increased? Okay. The answer was
no, Dean. You couldn't hear that, could you. Okay. Council, any further information?
Mr. Watson, you have a comment?
Watson: I'm sorry, Madam Mayor. Just one point of information that should reflect
either positively or negatively on this, but we are just getting to that point in the south
area where I need to bring this to your attention with each application. Based on our
sewer modeling and considering the pre-plats that have been approved by Council, we
have an estimated 1 ,079 ERUs left. With this application it would be reduced to
approximately 900 and I could give it later, but we will consider it here in a few minutes,
if Messina Meadows proceeds forward, that would reduce the available capacity in the
Ten Mile Trunk to 424 units. I just wanted to point that out as we start getting to that
point.
De Weerd: And those calculations, Brad, are those considering -- that's all preliminary
platted lots? That wouldn't be the final platted or considering phasing?
Watson: Madam Mayor, we consider those ERUs consumed as soon as the preliminary
plat is approved.
De Weerd: Okay.
Meridian City Council
July 12, 2005
Page 41 of 68
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Before I guess I give my personal opinion on slab on grade construction, Brad,
do you have any professional opinions about that type of housing construction?
Watson: Madam Mayor, Councilmember Wardle, no, I don't, other than I have been told
it's more expensive and that long-term access -- future access to some of your utilities is
a little bit difficult.
Wardle: Thank you.
De Weerd: And considering the price of concrete -- okay. Mr. Wardle, please, share
your opinion.
Wardle: And, Madam Mayor, just to make my comment on slab-an-grade construction
for housing and that I don't see it as a deterrent to having a quality housing
development. In some ways it is more beneficial. I personally being one of those
individuals that doesn't like to get down and crawl around underneath my home.
Certainly it has some advantages in a situation like this, having an applicant ask that it
be -- or at least offer to make it a requirement to relieve some groundwater issues that
may potentially in the future become an issue is certainly something to consider. So,'
that was my personal opinion.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Wardle. Is there any further comment? I would entertain a
motion.
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Hearing no further comment, I move that we close the public hearings on Items
17,18 and 19.
Donnell: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. Motion to close Items 17 through 19. All those in favor say aye. All
ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Wardle: Madam Mayor, question for legal counsel. Where would that additional
requirement fit in, Mr. Nary?
Meridian City Council
July 12,2005
Page 42 of 68
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilman Wardle, I think the
discussion we had was probably putting it in the development agreement, would be
appropriate and probably in the conditions of approval as well for the planned
development would make the most sense. So, in Items 17 and 19.
Wardle: Seventeen and nineteen? And would we need to bring back the Findings for
that or --
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilmember Wardle, since it was
just a recommendation at the Planning and Zoning level and was not included in the
Findings that are before you, yes, I would recommend that we bring them back in two
weeks with that addition.
Wardle: All right. Madam Mayor, with that I move that we approve Item 17, AZ 05-007,
request for annexation and zoning for Bellingham Park Subdivision and to include all
staff and applicant comments and to include the condition as stated by the applicant
that each of the foundations for the homes be required to~be slab-an-grade construction
and to bring back those amended Findings. ~
Donnell: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. The motion to approve Item 17. If the?e is no further discussion --
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Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I just need to make a comment. I'm really torn with this particular
application. There is a lot of issues with the site and appreciate the amount of time and
energy that's gone into trying to make it work. I'm not sure it does. I'm concerned about
if we annex this into the city, we are annexing into the city a subdivision that's taken full
advantage of a planned unit development and pretty much -- pretty nearly, entirely, is an
exception to what we would consider an R-8 lot as a minimum and not necessarily
consistent with its neighbor to the north. I see wide streets and shallower lots and long
streets with every house being 20 feet off the road and looking exactly like the
neighbors. And I don't see amenities in this particular subdivision that shout out to
compensate or add to the value of having to this kind of development to Meridian. For
those reasons I probably will not vote in favor of that motion.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you for your comments. Is there any further discussion? Mr.
Berg, will you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, absent; Rountree, nay; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: TWO AYES. ONE NAY. ONE ABSENT.
Meridian City Council
July 12,2005
Page 43 of 68
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Item 18.
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: I move that we approve Item 18, PP 05-009, to include all staff, applicant and
public comments, including the comments of the addition to the CC&Rs in regard to
maintenance of the road swales.
Donnell: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. Motion to approve Item 18. Is there any discussion? Mr. Berg.
Berg: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Are the Findings okay to approve or--
Nary: Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Nary.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I think since we are going to have the
other ones, I would -- you can certainly approve them tonight, but I have them follow it
on the 26th, as well, with the other, so that way they stay together as one project.
Roll-Call: Bird, absent; Rountree, nay; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: TWO AYES. ONE NAY. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: Okay. Item 19. Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Madam Mayor, I move that we approve Item No. 19, CUP 05-008, planned
development for Bellingham Park Subdivision and to include all staff and applicant
comments, in addition to the two previous conditions in regard to slab on grade
construction and roadways.
Donnell: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to approve Item 19. Mr. Berg, will you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, absent; Rountree, nay; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: TWO AYES. ONE NAY. ONE ABSENT.
Item 20:
Public Hearing: AZ 05-017 Request for Annexation and Zoning of
137.96 acres from RUT to R-8 zone for Messina Meadows Subdivision
Meridian City Council
July 26,2005
Page 2 of 71
this city and bring healing and wholeness to people's lives. And, God, we thank you for
the many city officials. The police and the fire and everybody, God, that you have
appointed to serve this city. We just pray a blessing on this meeting, that we have great
communication and may we further your kingdom because of this meeting tonight.
Amen.
Item 4:
Adoption of the Agenda:
De Weerd: I do have some City of Meridian pins for you, too. Okay. Item No.4 is
adoption of the agenda.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: We need to pull off the Consent G, H and I and move it over to, actually, 8 G, H
and I. And also BB, Resolution No. 05-480 and CC as 05-481 and on our regular
agenda 27 is 05-1167. Ordinance No. 28 is 05-1168 and 29 is 05-1169. And with that I
move we adopt the revised agenda.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 5:
Consent Agenda:
A. Approve Minutes of June 21, 2005 City Council Regular Meeting:
B. Approve Minutes of June 7, 2005 City Council Regular Meeting:
c. Approve Minutes of June 28, 2005 City Council Regular Meeting:
D. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: AZ 05-
007 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 43.18 acres from RUT
to R-8 zone for Bellinaham Park Subdivision by Gemstar
Development, LLC - north of Amity Road and east of South Locust
Grove Road:
E. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: PP 05-
009 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 166 building lots and
37 common lots on 43.18 acres in a proposed R-8 zone for
Bellinaham Park Subdivision by Gemstar Development, LLC -
north of Amity Road and east of South Locust Grove Road:
Meridian City Council
July 26,2005
Page 3 of 71
~
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t
F. Findings of Fact and Conclusions' of Law for Approval: CUP
05-008 Request for a Planned Development consisting of 166
residential units with reductions to the minimum requirements for lot
size, street frontage and yard setbacks for Bellinaham Park
Subdivision by Gemstar Development, LLC - north of Amity Road
and east of South Locust Grove Road:
J. Award of Bid for Well No. 26 Pumpina Facilities to Star
Construction. LLC:
K. Water Main Easement Aareement for Park's Wests ide Body
Works bv Tim Wallace:
L. Water Main Easement Aareement for Waltman Court
Subdivision:
M. Water Main Easement Aareement for Ustick Marketplace. LLC:
N. Purchase Aareement and Permanent Easement Aareement
with Ada County Hiahway District for Eaale Road. Victory to
Ridenbauah:
o. Development. Reimbursement and Conveyance Aareement for
Champion Park:
P. Award of Bid for 2005 Sewer Cleanina I TV Inspection Proiect
to Pipeline Inspection Services:
Q. Consultina Aareement and Scope of Work with Washinaton
Group International for North Meridian Area Traffic Study:
R.
Aareement for Pretreatment
Modifications with CH2M HILL:
Proaram
Application
S. Aareement for On-Goina Consultation to Water Department
with Hvdro Loaic:
T. Aareement for Municipal Water Riahts Proiect with Hydro
Loaic. Inc.:
U. Aareement for Supply Well # 27 Professional Services with
Hvdro Loaic. Inc.:
v. Aareement for Ground Water Studies with Hydro Loaic. Inc.:
Meridian City Council
July 26,2005
Page 4 of 71
w. Aareement for Supplv Well Evaluations with Hvdro Loaic. Inc.:
x. ReQuest for Funds No.3 for Meridian Sr. Center Rehabilitation
Proiect ICDBG 04-111-01-SR:
Y. Development Agreement: AZ 04-033 Annexation and Zoning of
15.92 acres from C-2 and RUT zones to C-G zone for Stor-It by
Avest LP - 355 North Ten Mile Road:
z. Development Agreement: AZ 05-008 Annexation and Zoning of
41.27 acres from RUT to R-4 for a new middle school for McMillan
and Meridian Middle School by Joint School District No.2 - NEC
of McMillan and Meridian Roads:
AA. Approve Beer and Wine Licenses for Pier 49 Pizza - 1551 West
Cherry Lane #102:
BB. Resolution No. Setting Forth Certain
Findings and Purposes Authorizing the Sale of Surplus
Property at Public Auction; Authorizing the Mayor of the City
of Meridian to Sell Surplus Property Located on Lot 63. Block
14 in Thousand Sprinas Subdivision No.5:
CC. Resolution No. : Declarina the Intent of
the City of Meridian to Convey to the Meridian Development
Corporation Certain Real Property Located at 55 East
Broadwav Avenue in the City of Meridian and Leaallv
Described as Lots 20 and 21 of Block 1 of the Meridian
Townsite; Instructina the City Clerk to Establish and Notice a
Hearina to Review the Proposed Conveyance:
Bird: Madam Mayor?
i
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve the Consent Agenda with the changes of Items G, H and I
being moved to the regular agenda as 8 G, H and I and for the mayor to sign and the
clerk to attest on all proper papers.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. Motion to approve the Consent Agenda. If there is no further
discussion, Mr. Berg, will you call roll?
Roll-Call: Bird, aye; Rountree, aye; Wardle, aye; Donnell, aye.
Meridian City Council
July 26,2005
Page 5 of 71
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Nary.
Nary: On Item BB that was just approved, if it's all right with the Council, I would suggest
if the Council's direction would be to the clerk's office to begin the process of the public
noticing necessary for the sale of this property at Thousand Springs, and our office --
attorney's office and Public Works office to post the site, so that we can get proper
notice out to the public. But if the Council could give that direction as well, we can get
this property actually sold maybe this year.
Bird: That was included in the motion.
De Weerd: Okay.
Bird: If the second agrees.
Rountree: The second understood that.
Bird: Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: And everyone that voted I'm sure understood that as well.
Nary: I thought you all did.
Donnell: Sure we did.
Item 6:
Department Reports:
A. Mayor's Office:
1. Proclamation for Cover the Blue 2005:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 6, Department Reports. I do have a proclamation to read. During
the week of August 1 st through the 5th, they are working a canned food drive to Cover
the Blue at BSU's football field. And so my proclamation reads as follows: Whereas, due
to the increase of cost of food and other necessities, the agencies that provides food for
needy Idahoans have a critical need for donations this summer. And whereas Idahoans
have always responded with compassion and generosity to their neighbors in need and
this is a time where we must all reach out to the members of our community who are
most impacted by these conditions. And whereas in response to those needs KQFC
Radio, the Boise Rescue Mission, and the Salvation Army, are presenting the Cover the
Blue summer food drives to give Idahoans throughout the state a way to donate food