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HomeMy WebLinkAboutJanuary 16, 2003 Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting January 16. 2003 Page 46 of 132 Borup: Right. Zaremba: The homeowners wee going to own the- Centers: Right. The homeowners would own it right. Zaremba: But Settler's would operate it. Centers: And, then, we concur that the drainage ditches should remain untiled end of motion. Zaremba: I will second that. Borup: Motion and second any discussion? All in favor? Any opposed? Thank you. Okay. That concludes those items. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT Item 7. Public Hearing: CUP 02-046 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a bus facility in an I-L zone for Joint School District No.2 by Joint School District No.2 - 2170 West Franklin Road: Borup: The next item is Public Hearing CUP 02-046, request for Conditional Use Permit for a bus facility in an I-L zone for Joint School District No.2 at 2170 West Franklin Road. Open the Public Hearing at this time and start with the staff report. McKinnon: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission. Those of you that have been on the Commission for a little while might -- this application might sound very familiar to you. It's dealing with the bus facility that we have originally discussed many times over at the corner of Ten Mile and Ustick. They have found a new home that they think would work for that, rather than the original proposed location. In front of you on the overhead you can see a map that's giving the area. To give you a little more detail than what's shown in the bolded area, approximately a month and a half ago, two months ago, the City Council approved a Variance for a one time lot split of the lot that you see that's bolded. Essentially, created a lot that runs -- it creates, essentially, what would be a flag lot up to the area that's on the north that runs adjacent to the Union Pacific Railroad. The reason for the lot split was to allow Sanitary Services to build at this location and to allow the school district to have an opportunity to propose the application that's in front of you tonight. The application that's in front of you tonight is for a 350-school bus parking facility, a two-story administration building, and a service building. You can see the elevations of the administration building they would like to build. A storage -- a storage and maintenance building and, finally, the overall Site Plan that shows all the bus parking, that would be all this large parking over here, the maintenance building, the administration building, employee parking and additional employee parking. A total of 456 car parking spaces, plus the 350 bus parking spaces, in addition to a fueling station at this location. As you can see from the Site Plan that's Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting January 16, 2003 Page 47 of 132 on the overheard in front of you, the Eight Mile Canal somewhat diagonally northwest through the proposed development. They have proposed one crossing to allow employees from this parking area and for employees coming from this parking area to cross back and forth across the Eight Mile to access all of the bus parking. Within the bus parking lot the applicant has proposed, rather than to pave the entire area, to use some sort of mixture of recycled asphalt. When Brad wrote the staff report -- if I could have you turn to Page 4 - he addressed a number of special considerations and one of those would happen to be the recycled asphalt. I have underlined it for emphasis, stating that the city would like to receive more information regarding what type of recycled asphalt this is, whether it's going to be poured or heated and rolled back out through the pug mill again, or whether it's just going to be laid back out onto the surface as if it were b lack asphalt type g ravel. We'd like some more information 0 n that, i n addition to the information regarding the drainage within that area. In the parking area they also have a number of posts that would have electrical hook-ups. because the vehicles are diesel and they would like to have the heater cores be able to be plugged in. There is a perimeter driveway that goes throughout the subdivision -- through the outside of the large lot here and this would be completely asphalted, rather than the recycled asphalt. Special consideration E -- I'm going through this backwards, but that's the way it makes sense to me -- is the perimeter landscaping. The applicant has requested that the perimeter landscaping that's typically required, that's one tree for every 35 lineal feet, be reduced to one for every 70, and that's because they have an awful lot of perimeter landscaping that they would need to have. Staff can support the property along the south and the property along the eastern boundary to have that reduction. However, in no case would the staff support a reduction along the north property line adjacent to the railroad. The reason why staff would oppose that is because on the other side of the railroad happens to be residential homes and we believe that those people should be the ones that receive the most amount of protection and buffering from this project. This is a lot of vehicles. They do have back-up alarms and they do -- they rumble just like a diesel engine would rumble. Going to the special consideration one is the Franklin Road landscape buffer and I will go back again to the original photo showing the site. This project that they are proposing, essentially, encompasses the rear half of this property. The applicant will own property that fronts onto Franklin. They are asking at this time that they not be required to improve Franklin, because they are not developing at this time. The only part of the property that they are developing is the property in back. They are proposing two private roads that would run back to the property with temporary turn arounds to the property and they are building those as private roads. In the future and they would be required to dedicate those as public roads. Essentially, the -- Borup: Dave, how much property do they own on Franklin because none of our plans indicate that, I don't believe? The ones we received don't show which -- McKinnon: They currently don't own any -- they don't own the -- they don't own the land -- Borup: Well, how much frontage do they have on Franklin was my -- Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting January 16, 2003 Page 48 of 132 McKinnon: They own -- this is the whole -- can you just give me one second to look that up? Just a second. Borup: Well, the parcel fronting on Franklin is going to the Sanitary Services parcel is that correct? McKinnon: A portion of that -- let me go back again. I wish I had the overheads from that application. Essentially, Sanitary Services - if you can follow my shaking hand -- I'll use two hands. It runs up and, then, runs over and back down. That is what Sanitary Services has is that area. The property on the left -- well, it would be the western side of the project is owned and would be owned by the School District. It looks like the applicant has got something he can show you a little better than I can. Borup: Okay. We do have a plat that shows 300 by 282. Is that the Sanitary Service parcel? McKinnon: Mr. Chairman, would it be okay if I came up there to see what you're looking at? Wait Bruce says he's got it. Mr. Chairman, Commissioner Centers, the rest of the Commission, that is Sanitary -- this is the map I'm looking at, second page of the -- Borup: That little section down in the corner, the bottom right-hand corner -- McKinnon: The bottom right-hand corner is -- Sanitary Services would own that, but they are not planning on developing that right now. The property that they are planning on developing right now is the shape -- the property that goes around that. Centers: Are you looking at this, Dave? McKinnon: I'm looking at this right now. Borup: Correct. That's in the packet, too, Commissioner Centers. Centers: Okay so the access -- the two points for this project are the two roads, the one in the middle and the one on the right-hand side? McKinnon: That's correct. Those would be owned by the applicant, in addition to the property shown on the left-hand side of this map that we are referring to. McKinnon: Okay. Do those access 50 feet, essentially or is that what that is, a 50-foot right of way? McKinnon: This is that 50-foot right of ways and then -- Borup: So they have a total -- so that's what they have is two 50-foot right of ways that front on Franklin? Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting January 16, 2003 Page 49 of 132 McKinnon: No. They have all of the land that's -- all those three parcels -- you see the three sectioned off parcels on the left-hand side - that would be the western side? Borup: Right. McKinnon: That second road? That's all part of this parcel that we are dealing with tonight. Borup: Okay. McKinnon: They are asking that they not be required to improve the frontage on Franklin at this time for those parcels that front onto Franklin, excluding the SSC-owned property. Borup: So they are saying from the access road to the west? McKinnon: Access road to the west. That's correct. Borup: That was alii wanted to know. McKinnon: Okay. Sorry. Just for the record and for the minutes, the map that we are referring to is the Conceptual Site and Landscape Plan, South Meridian Transport Facility, prepared by LCA. Borup: Okay. I'm sorry, you were -- well, that's where you ended up. Is that your-- McKinnon: That's kind of where I was ending up just a couple small items to address. Staff does recommend approval of this application. We find that this is a more appropriate location for this type of use. It is currently zoned industrial. This is absolutely an industrial use. It does have better separation than the last place that we dealt with and we do support this project. I don't think -- do you have any comments, Bruce, to add concerning the sewer availability? A couple things I would point out to you, in case you haven't had a chance to review it, and they would be Item Numbers 2 and 3 on Page 5 of the site-specific comments and they do make reference to ACHD's requirements. If you haven't had a chance to review those, please, take a little bit of time tonight to review those before you make your motion. We have -- I'm sure you're aware 0 f some 0 f t he situations that we are dealing with right n ow with Ada County Highway District and their ability to purchase right of way and that's the reason for Number 3 having findings B-2-1 or B-2-2. There are actually three options originally presented by ACHD that would be acceptable. We don't find the third option to be acceptable and that third option is to build no sidewalk at all. If you'd take the time just to review what ACHD has written for those two comments. Other than that, staff does support this project. We think this is an appropriate location for this. There are some findings that you will have tonight and it looks like there may be some people here to testify concerning how it may affect property in the area. We would suggest, again, as always, that you take into consideration all those adjoining property owners, the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting January 16, 2003 Page 50 of 132 testimony that they offer concerning how this property mayor may not affect them. With that, I'd ask if you have any questions for staff. Borup: Any questions from the Commissioners? Okay does the applicant have a presentation? Thomas: Mr. Chairman, fellow Commissioners, I'm Mike Thomas from Lombard- Conrad Architects, 1221 Shoreline Lane. I'm the representative of the Joint School District tonight. I'd like to just express some verbal testimony for this application, as well as propose a modification to the Conditional Use submittal. Basically, since the School District is a tax-based entity offering a service to Meridian and surrounding communities with limited resources, I'm proposing a modification to the perimeter landscaping, MCC- 12-13-11.2E. The reason is, is on the north property with the residential areas to the north, we would like to propose, due to the -- as previously mentioned, that expanse of landscaping, irrigation, and perimeter landscaping around this site, that 20 acre site is impacting the -- significantly impacting the cost of the project. We would like to propose a slatted fence, vision fence, in lieu of landscaping along the north property and go to a chain link fence on all of -- which we already currently have a chain link fence on the east, south, and west property. Mainly, the reason on the west property is we mainly are only screening the school bus facility from the Sanitary Services' undeveloped parcel that in the future is proposed to be a transfer station. With that said, we are spending a lot of money on this property right now in good faith trying to develop this property to fit on the large 28 acre parcel, yet we are bisected by the Eight Mile Lateral, too. We are not only constructing some large crossings across that Eight Mile Lateral and it's using up a fair amount of good real estate for this facility, the cost impacts of that, we would like to lessen that impact and propose a slatted fence in lieu of the perimeter landscape buffer. With that said, I would like to -- Borup: So this is a third option you're proposing now? Originally, the application complied with the Landscape Ordinance. The staff report said you wanted to reduce that -- Thomas: Yes. Borup: -- from 35 to 70 and now you're saying you want to eliminate it. Thomas: We are proposing right now at this point in time, just due to the cost implications of the irrigation and the landscaping and maintenance, we would like to propose a slatted fence, yes. Borup: Okay. Centers: On the north side. Thomas: On the north side yes. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting January 16, 2003 Page 51 of 132 Centers: And the remainder of it -- are you talking landscaping or do you just want to fence it? Thomas: We were just going to fence it. Centers: Okay. Borup: So the remainder is adjoining Sanitary Services. Thomas: To the east is the barrier -- Jersey Barrier Storage facility. To the west is undeveloped agricultural, light industrial zone, and to the south, again, is another light industrial zone. Borup: Okay. Go ahead. Thomas: My next issue is considering that -- I'd like a clarification on the sidewalk per the ACHD report. I believe their recommendations were to be on Findings for Consideration D, Item 2, on the sidewalk along Franklin. If Item Number 2 is to construct a five-foot wide concrete sidewalk on Under Road in an easement -- easement on Under Road does not adjoin the property and so I'm assuming that is Franklin Road in an easement. Centers: Are you reading from the ACHD-- Thomas: I am reading from the ACHD report. Borup: Which page? Thomas: Page 3 Item B-2.2. McKinnon: That should be Franklin Road. Centers: Yes it's Franklin. Thomas: Talking with Jensen Bell on this perimeter landscaping issue, if I can continue, we feel that the true obscurity of the 200-foot right of way from the -- between the right of way, the new property, and the existing residential areas, the best obscurity would be a fence with a slatted fence or trees. The shrubbery or the ground cover, really, I don't see does any obscuring opportunity for the site. That is the main reason we are proposing a slatted fence, in lieu of the landscaping. It would dumpish the impact of the bus facility and it would significantly help forward the cost of this site not getting classified as spending too much money for another school facility, which is cognizant of imposing unnecessary costs on a school facility that's a tax-based entity. With that said, the budget restraints of this facility are in question. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting January 16, 2003 Page 52 of 132 Centers: Well, let's jump back to the sidewalk. You're saying you don't want to put a walk in. Thomas: On Franklin? Centers: Right. Thomas: We would prefer to not put a sidewalk in on Franklin at this time until that -- that whole future development is taken under. What is hoped -- what the plan is, is that will be platted in the future and with the access road built to allow access to those future developments. At that point in time put in all the landscape buffers to the ordinance requirements, the sidewalks, and everything else that goes along with that development. Centers: No harm in asking. Thomas: No harm in asking. Borup: Are there any sidewalks on either side of this project presently? Thomas: No, there is not. Borup: Okay. Centers: Good point. McKinnon: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, Caparelli Subdivision directly to the east of this project does have a sidewalk that abuts the 50-foot right of way on the eastern side of the project. Borup: Okay. Thomas: That's the Sanitary Services corner. McKinnon: That's correct. Mr. Chairman, Mernbers of the Commission, Sanitary Services was required on the large parcel, if they are to develop, they were required to build a five-foot wide sidewalk across their property. Borup: So there will be -- it's not there presently, but it will -- McKinnon: It's presently not there, but part of the requirement for them to build there -- their building there. Of course, they are developing right now and that would be the difference between what the applicant is requesting and what SSC is doing. SSC is - for Building Permits they would be required to, as part of their occupancy, be required to build that sidewalk. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting January 16. 2003 Page 53 of 132 Borup: Okay go on, Mike. Thomas: Basically, that's what I have. What we would do, to continue on the perimeter landscaping, though, is we could -- we will leave those five-foot buffers for a future development and we could either put them in a dry land grass or a three-quarter inch minus gravel, just mainly to mitigate the irrigation requirement there. Dry land grass would not require irrigation, versus a wild grass or -- that does require irrigation. Centers: What can you tell us about the recycled asphalt? I have heard of this before. We had it on that automotive -- if you recall, Mr. Chairman. Why are you trying to go that way, other than expense? Thomas: Mainly it is an expense issue. What they are currently using -- the user is currently using at their current facility -- or bus facility is the recycled asphalt, in lieu of a gravel parking lot and what it is, is it basically is a mulch of asphalt and gravel and what they are finding that it is still fairly permeable in its first year or two. A s it wears, it becomes denser and becomes more of a harder surface. They do come in and they do wear the stripes off of it. We will stripe this entire facility under the main base contract, but the school district comes in and stripes once or twice a year on their own accord, just so they can keep their bus drivers in line. It does hold a fairly good stripe for a year long, most likely. Borup: Is that re-rolled at that time or is the compaction enough? Thomas: The compaction usually is satisfactory just by the use of the vehicles driving on it. Centers: Do you have to bring more in every three or four years and redo it? Thomas: A little bit. The potholes are significantly lessened and you do have to patch it in. What we would do, though, is we don't rely much on permeability on the southern portion of the site, we will be -- which is the low sloping part of the site. We are picking up with catch basins prior to that asphalt perimeter drive, so we don't undermine our asphalt perimeter and, then, piping it to the drainage basin shown in the left-hand corner or the southwest corner. McKinnon: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, I have a question concerning the base that you have underneath it. Do you have any idea of the type of base that you would have underneath this mix? Thomas: We would put in an eight-inch roadway -- well, first, we estimated a 10-inch base depth for that gravel. With that said, with a two-inch asphalt base and an eight- inch gravel pit run base for the bus load. Borup: So it does have a normal -- well, that's above a normal base for a parking lot isn't it? Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting January 16, 2003 Page 54 of 132 Thomas: That's what we are currently recommending right now. Borup: Yes because of the weight of the buses. Thomas: And the turning criteria on the buses fairly heavy. Borup: Okay. Rohm: Mr. Chairman? Borup: Commissioner. Rohm: I'd like to return to the subject of the landscaping along the north line. Borup: Yes was there anything else in your presentation, Mr. Thomas? Thomas: The only thing that I have noticed from an aerial, if I may say so -- Borup: And, then, we will want to get back to some of these -- Thomas: Yes. The residential area on the other side of the railroad tracks, from the aerial and it appears to me -- and from the site visit out on the site, is that those are currently screened with solid fencing right now, all of the residential areas along there, so I just wanted to say that as well. Borup: Okay. Commissioner Rohm. Rohm: Well, I was just going to speak to the sound level of the buses and what have you. If you had trees in addition to the fence along that north line, it seems that it would add an additional buffer to that existing subdivision to the north. I can see why you would want to eliminate the landscaping around this entire property, because it's rather significant, but the impact to that property to the north I think needs to be addressed. It seems appropriate that some deciduous trees or some sort of trees along that north line would be appropriate just to keep the noise level down for that subdivision. Zaremba: Well, I would add to the defense of trees that they also exchange pollution for oxygen, which, if you have a lot of vehicles warming up, I think we need some help there, too. Just an opinion. Centers: You weren't here the first time, were you? Thomas: No, sir. Centers: Yes. Borup: You missed the fun. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meatlng January 16. 2003 Page 55 of 132 Thomas: Thank you. I'm glad I did. Borup: Okay any other questions from the Commissioners at this point? Zaremba: Not at the moment, no. Borup: Okay. Thomas: Thank you. Borup: Thank you, Mr. Thomas. Do we have anyone else that would like to testify? Mrs. Atkinson, come on up. Atkinson: I'm Irma Atkinson. I live nowhere near this place anymore, but I live at 1124 North Lightning. I'm here representing my parents Wilbur and Eula Calnon, who live at 2155 West Franklin Road, which -- I have no clicker thing to point on. Oh. Wait. Wait. Okay over to the left. Okay yes that one. That one. They are two-acre lots where they have -- okay now, a brief history lesson. I will talk fast. Borup: Which parcel does the church own now? To the-- Atkinson: It's the little one to the right that my brother used to own. Borup: The church has that. Atkinson: He sold out. He got married, he sold out, he moved to Columbia Village. Please don't hold that against us. Okay there is one in every family. My cousin, Kathy Causca, is turning beet red and wishing she never volunteered to come with me. She's back from living in the east for 35 years? Somewhere like that. She's representing her father, Mark Calnon, who owns those other 77 acres. Right that big spot. Okay so a brief history lesson. There have been Calnon's on that land since 1918. My parents ran Calnon Floral there for over 40 years. Kathleen's father, my Uncle Mark, farmed, he was a county agent for eternity and we did the thing about forgiving my brother. Okay. I have been here not to testify, but for other things, and having to sit through -- you know, the good news is there is not a standing room only crowd tonight right? Centers: Well, where is my sweater? Remember last time? Atkinson: Well, okay, now I know we have discussed this before, Commissioner Centers. Kathleen here, she raises Angora rabbits. She is the one to be talking to. Centers: Okay. Atkinson: And she has a knitting machine. I don't send any -- Centers: Yes. Okay. I didn't want to get you off the SUbject. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting January 16. 2003 Page 56 of 132 Atkinson: Okay. Well, I'm so easily distractible, especially - Centers: Yes. Atkinson: Especially after 9:00. Okay. That's why I write things down. Okay. We forgave my brother so yes there is not a standing room only crowd tonight. There are three things that I look at when I look at a development proposal, are the traffic, pedestrian safety, and minimizing the impact on the existing neighborhood so, quickly, we haven't really talked about the auto traffic bit. I didn't know until tonight and remember how many buses and how many cars. Holy cow. Okay. It is, what, 50 miles an hour on Franklin Road. I haven't had the chance to look at the ACHD letter or comments for them. I'm hoping that's going to change if you have 350 buses rolling out on there, but I certainly would want that addressed. It's a two-lane road. Borup: Well, the buses themselves will change it, because the cars will have to slow down for the buses. Atkinson: That's true but let's be pro-active, not reactive two-lane road, lots, and lots of traffic. I mean it gets backed up -- at 5:00 it will back up to mom and dad's driveway for the four way stop on Ten Mile and Franklin. I'm concerned -- is there a turning lane -- I really have a -- my big questions revolve around what's going to happen on Franklin Road. I think, you know, the - the plan, which showed the back, the north part of the property, is great, but I want to know what's happening on Franklin Road. Is there going to be a turning lane into -- that's Fairview. Okay. You're just seeing if I was, you know, attending, weren't you? Okay so my questions are is there a right turning lane to -- on the north side to get into that property for those buses or will they be slowing down, you know, in the traffic lanes. Likewise, the ones that are eastbound, are there any accommodations, like a turning lane, or are we going to get backed up, you know, all the way to the four way stop at Ten Mile when we have buses come to turn left into that property? Those are my traffic questions. My pedestrian safety questions -- you know, I want to see the landscaping on Franklin. I want to see the sidewalk. I understand it's a financial challenge. However, I think it's only fair to other properties, including Sanitary Services -- I'm sticking up for them, that's really scaring me. Okay. I think it's only fair to the other properties, as they develop, that they are required to put in the sidewalk and the landscaping, that it be done here also. It could be 10 years before they develop that piece between the bus area and Franklin. I think it's only fair to pedestrians -- potential pedestrians to put in the landscaping and the sidewalks. Okay. Minimize the impact on the existing neighborhood. I will be the first to admit that the existing neighborhood may not be there that much longer. My parents are in their 80s, my uncle is in his 80s, although Kathleen's moved in now, she may be there forever. Okay so maybe that's changed but you know we are here to be advocates for our parents. You know, they have been good citizens for this community their names pop up in Lyle Hill's column every once in awhile. They have been quiet citizens and they have been productive citizens. My questions are where exactly is that drive into the property? Is it directly across from my mother's driveway? I don't want her scared to drive out of her property. You know, she doesn't need to feel trapped that she can't Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting January 16, 2003 Page 57 of 132 leave her property, because there are 350 buses and the 10 garbage trucks coming out at her. I think Sanitary Services heard that loud and clear, but I have some concerns here. That just doesn't seem fair to the existing neighborhood. Questions? Centers: No but I would like the applicant to address what your comment -- and I think I see it in the ACHD report -- regarding kind of turn lanes, especially coming from the east and turning in. I think that's where most of the traffic might be coming from, is from the east. I could be wrong but I think the a pplicant will address that. I understand where you're coming from there. Atkinson: Okay. Centers: Thank you. Atkinson: Do you want to be next or -- you don't want to say a word. Borup: Do we have anyone else that would like to testify? Okay. Mr. Thomas. Thomas: Mr. Chairman, Commissioners. In regards to the traffic - traffic considerations, I guess I should say, we, in all hopes, would like to get a traffic light -- the School District would like to get a traffic light for this facility and we would personally like to get it in regards to the most easterly access road. However, meeting with ACHD, it doesn't even meet the quarter mile frontage distance from Linder Road, so our best hopes of getting a traffic light for that facility would be on the secondary access road in the future. That would be where the future developments would be, or, possibly, more light industrial properties, but that is our best hopes of getting a traffic light at that area. It's mainly due -- just due to the traffic distances of quarter mile, third mile, and that sort of thing. Centers: I thought the ACHD report on Page 4, under site-specific conditions of approval, might be addressing her concerns or any -- any motorist concerns on Franklin Road and I think it may. Are you able to extend the asphalt, so the buses can get over and -- you know? Thomas: Basically, our access roads will be developed to a 54-foot paved right of way. ACHD -- I think -- I interpreted ACHD's comments just saying that due to the fact that they are a private road, we do not have to construct to ACHD standards or any, way, shape or form. They are saying if you do it as a private road, we request that you pave the first 30 feet to keep gravel fodder from coming onto Franklin. Centers: Yes. The access. Thomas: Yes. Centers: But is -- I don't know if it's possible. Can you -- can you pave from their dedicated -- Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting January 16, 2003 paga 58 of 132 Thomas: That is our intention, is we are dedicating - Centers: So the buses can't -- coming from the east -- Thomas: We are -- Centers: Are they going to stack up in the middle of the road? Thomas: Yes, they will. There is no turning lane. There is -- Centers: You're not going to -- you can't construct a 12 or 14-foot turning lane of your own? You have a lot of frontage. Thomas: There is none proposed at this time, for the fact that we are going to have a traffic light in the future. There is -- and I think it is spelled out in the fact that ACHD doesn't -- doesn't have the -- it in their Comprehensive Plan to widen that road in any shape or form at this point in time. Borup: They will widen it to the east on -- it's logical to assume that it's going to be some day. Could you comment on the traffic routes of the buses, which direction most of them would be coming and going? Thomas: I could not. Basically, what the intention of this facility is, that's about as far as I can go, is they will leave for their routes in the morning, basically, I would assume they would try to take a right-hand turn with traffic, in lieu of crossing traffic. They would return after their routes in the morning and the policy and this facility's whole basic philosophy is to keep the bus drivers there. We are offering them a large administration building with a lounge, training room, training center, work center, that they would stay there the full period before their afternoon route, do their fueling, do their afternoon routes, do everything else, in lieu of taking their buses currently home, as they somehow do now in between their routes. They -- you know, they are trying to mitigate that whole liability issue. Centers: So you're not going to allow that? You're not going to allow them to take them home. Thomas: No. No. That will mitigate that entire thing. They will come back to the site and stay there for the full term until the afternoon route and, then, return and, granted, they will not be returning all at once, because I'm sure the routes have different time sequences. Borup: That was my other question. How often are buses coming in one directly behind another? Thomas: The school district could probably answer that better than I -- Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meellng January 16, 2003 Page 59 of 132 Borup: Okay. Thomas: I just would like to say that currently right now this is the maximum build out of this facility. They currently won't have 350 buses -- Borup: Right. Thomas: -- when they first come on line. Centers: I think it's 150 now or 200. Thomas: About 200. Borup: Yes. That might be good to get some other questions answered. Bigham: Wendel Bigham, Meridian School District, 911 Pine Street, Meridian, Idaho. I'll stand for your questions. I would like to clarify a couple points. It is our desire to have the buses return to the facility during the daytime to get them off of the right of way and all the driveways they are parked in around the valley, Generally, the buses go out and back twice a day. They go out in the morning, they come back late morning, and then, they go out early afternoon and come back. Borup: That was one of my questions also was the times, Bigham: Anytime after about 6:30 in the morning you will see the buses starting to go out. This site is advantageous to us, just as the previously unsuccessful site was. Our routes are shifting to the west. As the subdivisions become more and more developed to the east, as we butt up against Boise, more and more people walk to school and the schools are built into those areas so our routes are shifting to the west. Over time the majority of our traffic will move out of this facility with a right-hand turn to go west on Franklin. Today if you ask me, I'd tell you it's 50-50, I really don't know, but those routes do seem to be shifting to the west for us. Again, the accessibility to any future Ten Mile interchanges is very advantageous to our north-south connection to the -- Borup: And the return time? Bigham: Anytime after 3:30 to 4:30, pretty much. I mean if you think about when your children get home from school and get off the bus, you know, the buses tend to go back and -- Borup: So the majority of them would be in by 4:30? Bigham: That's a very fair assumption. Borup: Before the real traffic starts. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting January 16, 2003 Page 60 of 132 Bigham: Because we looked at the traffic study, the information in trying to determine this -- we are kind of an off-peak user, we kind of go before the world gets busy and we tend to come back before the world gets busy in the afternoon. Arguably, 350 buses is a lot of traffic. Arguably, one may maintain that more trips could be generated if you had three houses per acre on 40 acres worth of land, You could maybe generate more vehicle trips, if you will, on a daily basis in this type of facility. It does not operate on weekends, with the exception of the odd school bus, athletic bus. Its activity during the three months during the summer is reduced by -- pick a number -- 90 plus percent, because the traditional school calendar is off during the summer. You need to think of its operation much more like a school, if you will. The other clarification I would like to just make is it's a public facility and the school district is a public entity, but the public is not invited into the facility. It is truly a maintenance yard for the school district, other than the auto parts store delivering parts it's highly, highly unlikely that there would be any public wanting to come into that. The basis of that discussion is really, you know, the paved parking lot versus the gravel surface. It's a big chunk of money to pave 20 acres. You can quickly hit a million dollars just in asphalt like that without ever dealing with the added cost of additional drainage so it is a big parking lot. We have found that we have had great success with the recycled asphalt in terms of its maintainability and it's somewhat permeable, at least initially. Yes, that also speaks to the -- if you will, the landscaping requirements that we are somewhat concerned with on the interior of the property. It's not a destination for anyone, except the bus driver or mechanics. Borup: That is rolled is that correct? When it goes down? Bigham: The ones I have seen, yes. You spread it out much the way you would a six inch leveling coarse, four inch leveling coarse under a concrete slab, it's graded out and you roll it and you generally water it and it starts setting up from there. Borup: Yes. Bigham: It's not quite like roller compacted concrete, but it's pretty close. Borup: No. No. I understand. I have been on straight road mix that's been rolled and when it's new, it feels like pavement, but - Centers: You know, what bothers me is those buses and the traffic in the afternoon, but I think it could be remedied. I don't know if we can require it or the Council, but if the buses -- the bus drivers were all required to enter from the east and make a right turn, then, they'd just zip right in. If they are coming from the west and have a turn signal on and traffic is not allowing them to turn left, they are going to start stacking up and I think you will be the first to admit, a lot of them are going to returning at the same time. Bigham: Absolutely. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting January 16, 2003 Page 61 01132 Centers: So if they were required to come from the east and just turn right, they are just going to zip right in. I don't know if we can do that, but if there is no turn lane, they are going to stack up if they are coming from the west. Bigham: Mr. Chairman, Commissioner Centers, I don't know if you could place that condition on us. I don't know that we would accept it. I just don't have a real good feel about that. Borup: This is a Conditional Use Permit. Bigham: The reality is we are advocating a stoplight at our western driveway. Centers: Yes but you don't have it. Bigham: We do not have it and that was the third point I wanted to clarify. We are buying land -- much more land, approximately eight acres is the amount of land that was in question with the flag lot on the western side. Our intention is to be back here before you very, very shortly with a plat. We are not developers and we have no business speculating in the land market, we are simply being forced to buy this amount of land to meet our bus parking. Our goal will be to get that platted in conjunction with Sanitary Services, so they can carve off their future Western Recycling lot that you were looking at. You will be seeing a joint plat from both of us and we will be trying to sell those lots or trade that property immediately, because the investment in those dollars is not in the highest and best use for the students of the district to be tied up in industrial land. With that, we will be building that western road. We fully expect that road to be a condition of the plat we expect all of the improvements, the setbacks and everything, to be a condition of that plat for the improvements of Franklin Road. At that time, we are hopeful that -- not hopeful, I would fully anticipate being required by ACHD to widen that road to a turn lane, probably acceleration, deceleration lanes, and the whole nine yards to accomplish that. Centers: And that's all speculation. In other words, you're saying that the school district acquired some additional land that you really didn't want, but you had to take it in order to get what you wanted and now you're going to re-plat it and try and sell it off to the general public. Bigham: That is correct. Centers: Okay because the owner of the land wouldn't sell part of it, he says you take it all or none. Then, you decided, well, we can re-plat some of this other -- okay. It sounds like you did get into the real estate business to me. Bigham: Mr. Chairman, Commissioners Centers, beggars can't be choosers. Centers: Okay. I guess that's a fair statement. Well, I guess whether we could require access from the east, I don't know. I would recommend that to the City Council, if they Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting January 16, 2003 Page 62 of 132 can do it and then -- because I can see traffic stacking up coming from the west. You can, too. In the future you might have a signal, you might sell those lots if the buyers come along and -- but until then, that's going to stack up from -- clear to Ten Mile, I would bet, with -- what are those buses, 30-foot? Bigham: Forty. Centers: Forty. Bigham: M r. Chairman, Commissioner C enters, I would advocate that t he buses d 0 move with traffic speeds. We do not speed, but we do move with the traffic speeds and I would have the same concern about stacking at the lighted interchange at Linder and Franklin Road if the decision was passed down that all traffic must come from the east, one may create a nightmare. The thing that we are -- Centers: They will be able to return right in, though. Bigham: But at the lighted intersection we will be having buses stacked up every direction you can think of at that intersection. The thing we don't -- we are going to route our buses to get them off the street. They are going to come from all directions, I need say that, but we will route them in a way that gets them in there efficiently. We are advocating that Franklin be widen to its designed width, even if it's not in Ada County's five year work plan, our intentions would be to hold our setbacks back for any future right of way that they may want or desire, but can't currently acquire we are trying to do that. We are advocating the widening of Franklin and with that will come, probably, a reduction in the speed to 35 miles an hour would be my guess. Zaremba: Well, I would think not only the right of way, but also the acceleration and deceleration lane in addition to that - Borup: For the setbacks if they are leaving them. Zaremba: I would feel that the existence of that should be a condition of this going in there, though. That has to come first. Bigham: Mr. Chairman, Commission Zaremba, I'm not sure what right of way ACHD has to the east of our eastern driveway in front of the Caparelli Subdivision, don't know the -- even if we all wanted to do it, if the right of way exists for us to be forced to put a taper in there, if you will. To east of our -- excuse me -- to the west of our eastern driveway, any widening conditions that would be expected in there probably should be incumbent upon Sanitary Services, since they are the frontage property there. When we get to our western driveway, any approaches to the west from our western driveway should absolutely be placed upon the school district to do that. We would be advocating to do that, since we are going to put the curb, gutter, sidewalk and landscaping in, let's bring the street out to it in a correct fashion, so -- Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting January 16, 2003 Page 63 of 132 Borup: Any comments on -- I think Commissioner Rohm made some comments on the trees. Zaremba: I'm in favor of having as many trees as we can get along the northern border. I'm not that stuck on having more on the other borders. Centers: Yes I'm the same way. We didn't have anyone else here, Mr. Chairman? Borup: Not from that subdivision. Centers: Yes. Borup: I mean there is a 200-foot railroad easement through there and that may be part of the non-interest, there is a good separation. Zaremba: Well -- and I -- I have a question that gives me a little bit of difficulty here. When we were talking about this facility in the previously proposed location, this is probably the exact kind of site I was hoping it would move to, instead of being in the other place. I think this is a good, all-around choice, and a good design with some things that can be adjusted here and there. My difficulty is not with the facility, but with the zone that it's being put in. My direction is to see if we can change the zone, not the facility. An industrial light zone is for quiet businesses, totally contained within a building. That's the definition of it. Centers: That hasn't been finalized yet. Zaremba: No. That's already in the -- Centers: Is it? Borup: It's already zoned. Zaremba: What we were talking about doing at other times were definitions in a different chapter than -- Centers: Okay. Zaremba: -- that didn't include that and that needed to be added. The difficulty is we do not have a definition for a real industrial zone. Heavy industrial. This, to me, is a heavy industrial use. I think it's appropriate in that location. The problem is we don't have in existence the zone that this should really be. The reason that that gives me difficulty is that I don't want future applicants to feel comfortable that they can put heavy machinery, heavy trucks, and heavy buses into any I-L zone. It's not the intent of the I-L zone, industrial light zone, to have heavy vehicles coming into it. I feel like I'd like to have this facility exactly where it's being proposed, but I don't like that zone designation, precisely because it opens up -- it's exactly the reason that we refused it in its previous location, it Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting January 16, 2003 Page 64 of 132 was being proposed as an I-L zone and we said this is heavy industrial. I'm not wanting to expand the definition of light industrial to include what are clearly heavy uses so my question is what can we do to change the zoning? McKinnon: Mr. Chairman, Commissioner Zaremba, let me address a couple of those comments. You stated correctly that we currently do not have a heavy industrial zone and if I could direct your attention to the Meridian City Code 11-8-1, often referred to as the schedule of use control, which is kind of an odd way of saying what's allowed and what's not allowed in certain zones. Because of the fact that we do not currently have a heavy industrial zoning designation, nor do we have a definition that would go along with that, the City Council has adopted a schedule of use control that says what certain types of uses would be allowed in specific zones. Although the definition does not correlate specifically to all the uses that are permitted in Conditional Uses in the industrial zone, the requested use that we have tonight, according to the schedule of use control found in the Zoning Ordinance, is a Conditional Use in that zone. It may not meet -- Zaremba: It's a Conditional Use and I'm looking at the chart. I know what you're referring to I have it open in front of me. McKinnon: Right and because of the fact we do not have a heavy industrial zone, we have nothing that we can play that off of. The discussion would be that we should adopt a new zoning designation and we are in the process of adopting a new definition for a Heavy Industrial Ordinance as we discussed a month ago. We would need to have a definition, plus, we would need to have a heavy industrial added to that. At this time we have no other zoning designation where this type of use would be allowed and this is the best appropriate zone for this use at this time, because we do not have the other zone that you speak of at this time. Borup: And the Comp Plan lists it just as industrial. Zaremba: Well, as I say, I don't have a problem with the facility being exactly where it's being proposed. The difficulty I have is with calling it light industrial and thereby expanding the definition of light industrial where it might be used other places. Centers: Well, that's why they have -- Zaremba: If it's referred to only as industrial, it doesn't -- McKinnon: Mr. Chairman, Commissioner Zaremba, I believe that that expansion took place at the time that they -- that they adopted the schedule of use control allowing all those separate uses to be either permitted or Conditional Uses. Centers: And that's why they have to go for a CUP. McKinnon: That's correct. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting January 16, 2003 Page 65 of 132 Centers: Exactly so we are not opening up a Pandora's Box Mr. Zaremba. Zaremba: Okay. Centers: Commissioner Zaremba, the next guy would have to get a CUP, too. McKinnon: Commissioner Zaremba, we will get you that industrial zone. I promise. We will get it for you. Zaremba: We have got to fix these charts and make Chapter 7 and Chapter 8 agree with each other. McKinnon: Commissioner Centers -- Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, could I just address a couple things that have been brought up tonight? One concerning the slow down lane or the acceleration and deceleration lanes a nd turn lanes? We got ACHD's report and ACHD's report has said that we want a 96-foot road h ere in the future. The right of way is 96 feet and they would like to have 48 feet dedicated from centerline for this entire project. That has no assumption for an acceleration or deceleration lane. However, that five lane roadway that they would like to have here would have the center turn lane for these buses that would be making the left-hand turn when they come in from the western direction, west to east. ACHD has been forced to adopt a fiscally constrained capital improvement program where they have said here is everything we have got for 20 years, this is the money that we can spend. They have, in fact, shortened that down to saying if it's in the five year work program we can fiscally -- we can give you money for it and if we don't have the money for it, what we can do is go ahead and give you some impact fee offsets. This section of Franklin is not in the 20-year work program, it's not in the five year, and so it's going to be a number of years before we see this actually take any action for any expansion. Even with the expansion, it does not give any language for an acceleration or deceleration lane. Those acceleration lanes or deceleration lanes that Wendel brought up earlier tonight that he thinks would probably take place, would have to be an improvement onto SSC's property, because A CHD does not have the money top urchase t hat I and from S SC right now. Any acceleration or deceleration lane would not be part of ACHD's improvements, but improvements on SSC's property. We do not have the authority to require those acceleration and deceleration lanes on that property. If I could jump to the landscaping issue. There has been a lot of discussion tonight how we have a tax entity and an entity that should be given a break from the City Ordinances and be allowed to not meet the requirements of the ordinance. As you will note in Brad's comments under the special considerations, any alteration to that should require a Variance and should be approved by the Council. It sounds like the direction that we are going to go tonight is to require the trees on the northern boundary, but go with some fencing around the rest of the project and, you know, that's one thing -- that's one way you could look at it. Another way it could be looked at is that those agencies, such as school districts and City of Meridian, other agencies that are supported by tax dollars, should actually be setting the example, rather than saying we want to be excluded from those things that would beautify the city so there are two ways of looking at it. I wouldn't suggest either Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting January 16. 2003 paga 68 of 132 as better than the other, but I do believe, still, that the landscaping along the north adjacent to the residential, although there is a 20-foot buffer between the two, would be appropriate. That's really all that I had to add to those comments. Centers: I totally agree and I was just looking -- this is not totally relevant, but it -- I'm pleased to see the school district didn't layout the dollars and buy this property ahead of time. Ronald Van Auker is the p resent owner a nd has given h is statement tog 0 ahead and proceed. Correct? Zaremba: Well, I would chime in on the landscaping that I agree setting the example is good. The landscaping is attractive, but in most cases that's not the entire purpose of it. It's a nice result that it's attractive, but its primary purpose is as a sound buffer, as a pollution absorber, grass and trees and bushes exchange a lot of air for us. The biggest reason for them existing is what they give back to us in mitigating pollution and in absorbing sounds. It's a nice benefit that they are pretty, but that's not really the point of having them there and I'm not too excited about giving it up. Centers: Which part? Borup: All of it or -- Centers: Yes. Zaremba: Well, I'm not really exited about giving up any of it. I could be talked into not having trees along the eastern and western and southern boundary, but other landscaping that wants to be there and I think all the trees need to be along the north boundary. Just an opinion. Centers: I'd like to move that we close the Public Hearing. Zaremba: I'll second that. Borup: Motion and second to close the Public Hearing. All in favor? MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT Centers: Yes. I'm in -- well, 100 percent agreement with Commissioner Zaremba and I think Commissioner Rohm. I think we need full compliance with the city's landscaping requirements. Borup: You're differing from the staff recommendation? Centers: No. Staff is recommending perimeter landscaping. Borup: Well, they recommend -- Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting January 16, 2003 Page 67 of 132 Centers: In special considerations they are and I would make that part of our requirements. I think -- Borup: I thought they recommended a reduction? Centers: No. In special considerations they are talking about we need to consider that, because if we don't, if we allow them not to have the -- Borup: Oh. They supported a decrease. Staff supports a decrease. Zaremba: Half the trees. Borup: Right. Centers: Right. Zaremba: The normal landscaping, but half the trees. Centers: Right. Borup: Yes. That's what I meant. Zaremba: And the applicant is now asking to go even farther than that. Centers: Right because I agree with Mr. McKinnon, it's -- you know, t he applicant's presenter talks about the tax dollars and preying on our conscience to save money, but I -- you know -- and I'm all for saving money, but I have seen a lot of money wasted on previous site acquisitions that didn't come to play. There was a lot of waste in that case and other situations with the school district. Borup: You're still bothered by the Pine Street thing. Centers: That house is still sitting t here and owned by t he school district still sitting there. They bought it before they could even deterrnine if they could use it for that use and, then, they made application for a bus facility at -- out off of -- well, I was here. What street was it on? Borup: Ten Mile. Centers: Because I'm sure there was a lot of expense gone to promote that location with no success. Then, they want us to cut corners for this facility. I don't -- I don't concur. I don't think we should cut corners anyway. I agree with the recycled asphalt. I don't have any problem with that. The Franklin Road landscape buffer, I don't have any problem with them not doing that now. I think that makes sense. I think they should put in the sidewalk, because we have got sidewalks on both sides. That's mine. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting January 16, 2003 Page 68 of 132 Zaremba: And I'm not sure, except maybe in the short run that leaving out the trees would save money. If the quantity of exhaust that 350 buses can put out coming and going four times a day, leaving twice, returning twice, warming up and sitting there, if that quantity were to go up one chimney, one smoke stack, the EPA would have a lot of requirements about mitigating the effect on the atmosphere. The trees help with that. Centers: I agree. Zaremba: The E PA is beginning to go around and micro manage individual vehicle pollution. They have gone beyond the smoke stacks now and they could show up at a facility like this and say you have to put a dome over it and contain everything in it. I think having trees would -- would help stop that. I think we must take measures to do that so I'm on the side of trees. How about sidewalks? Centers: I have told you my opinion. Zaremba: Yes I feel we should have the sidewalks. Is that what you have -- I forgot. Centers: Yes. Borup: Well, yes, let's discuss where we are talking on sidewalks, then. Right now you're talking on the undeveloped section, that they are going to come in with a future plat? Zaremba: Well, we require that as -- certainly residential developers and all other developers, that they do all of the perimeter landscaping. Borup: I'm talking about the sidewalk. Centers: Well, per ACHD report, is the way staff puts it, along Franklin Road. Staff is okay with B-2.1 or B-2.2. I think that was on Page 4 of the report. Borup: Well, I'm just saying one option may be to do the sidewalk from their access road to Sanitary Service's site and if we are not going to require anything on the property to the west that the sidewalk could be done when that project is presented. Will we see the -- we will see the platting back here, won't we? McKinnon: Yes we will see the platting. Borup: I don't know if that makes a lot of difference. Zaremba: And not on the other parcel. Centers: Yes I would agree with that. Yes. Borup: So it would be from their access road clear to -- Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting January 16, 2003 Page 69 of 132 Centers: SDI or -- Borup: SSI sidewalk so that would be continuous. I'm not sure where the Commissioners were discussing -- or end up going on -- well, all three items have been listed under special considerations. One is the Franklin Road landscape buffer. They are requesting it be delayed until a later date. Centers: Right. Borup: Staff recommends that a time frame should be part of the motion. Zaremba: If that was -- Borup: The way we desired to go. On the perimeter landscaping, it would require a Variance to the City Council, no matter which - no matter what this Commission recommended, they still need to apply for the Variance. I think we can put our recommendation down also. Centers: Well, no, if we required the landscaping, there wouldn't be a Variance needed. Borup: That's true. McKinnon: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, regardless of the motion you make on that tonight, Mr. Bigham and the school district has the opportunity to make a request for a Variance to eliminate all of it. Centers: Oh, yes. McKinnon: But I just wanted to make sure that Wendel is aware of that. Okay. Borup: If we are talking -- well, which way are we leaning? It sounds like right now the trees every 70 feet on the northern boundary or are we talking different than that? Centers: I'd like them every 35. Zaremba: I'd like the 35 on the northern boundary. Centers: Per the ordinance. Borup: And, then, how about other landscaping? If they put a solid slatted fence on there, is there any need for trees -- or grass and shrubs in that area, too? It's going to be obscured by the fence, other than from the bus driver's view. Centers: Well, I think Commissioner Zaremba makes a good point and Commissioner Rohm, the more trees the better for the noise. It will absorb the noise. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting January 16, 2003 Page 70 of 132 Borup: No. The Landscape Plan also shows low -- low shrubs and grass in that area. Zaremba: I think all of those help. Borup: I don't know if it shows grass, but it shows sornething. Ornamental ground -- shrubs and ground cover is what it says here. Other than -- other than -- well, it's not -- those are not a screening feature if we already have a sight obstructive fence. Centers: Are you talking the north? Borup: Yes I'm talking the north. Centers: You know, I'd like to see -- Borup: They are having a solid -- they are proposing a solid fence there, a sight obstructing slatted chain link. Centers: I n lieu of the trees and landscaping? Borup: Well, that was what they were saying. We still have -- I guess I was assuming the slatted fence would stay and the trees could stay and shrubs and grass could go. Centers: Yes. I'm not -- I don't fence, because I'rn looking at the railroad right of way and it's 200 feet to the neighborhood. They may want the fence for security reasons. I don't know. I think you can have a fence on -- they want the fence on three sides, don't they? Borup: Yes. They are planning on -- Thomas: All four sides regardless. Centers: Regardless. Right. Borup: Yes and north is going to be slatted, sight obstructing. Centers: And which it doesn't have to be, really, if you're having landscaping and the trees, because the railroad right of way is 200 feet. Borup: Well, the trees aren't going to -- even every 35 feet are not going to be a sight- obstructing perimeter. Centers: Okay. Just make them do the -- Zaremba: Different issue. Did we discuss at anytime where their western access road is in relation to the house across the street? Did we get that answered? Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting January 16, 2003 Page 71 of 132 Borup: It's on the property. I don't know where the house on the property is. Probably, the map on -- the one that comes with the ACHD report shows all properties in relation to each other very well. It shows the entire -- yes. About where he was pointing there, it looks like. It looks I ike it's close to their western property line. Did you see that, Commissioner Zaremba? Zaremba: Yes. Borup: Okay. Zaremba: I have a question for staff. What is the zone where the current facility is? McKinnon: The current facility is zoned I-L. It's down further off of Franklin, if you were to go down -- Zaremba: I know where it is, off of -- McKinnon: It's zoned I-L. Zaremba: I'm just asking what the zone is there. McKinnon: I-L. I wasn't sure if everybody else knew. Zaremba: You're hurting me. Borup: Well, there is no other zoning that would be appropriate at this point. Zaremba: It's not manufacturing. It's not commercial. It's not their fault it's our ordinance that's a little bit screwy to me. Borup: Okay. Are we ready to -- are we ready to discuss a motion? Centers: Yes the Landscape Plan shows trees every 35 feet correct? Borup: Right. McKinnon: Yes. Centers: And the Landscape Plan is showing grass and -- or bark materials or small shrubs, which is required, Dave? Okay. It's not. I can tell by your -- McKinnon: It sure is encouraged. We'd like to see something other than perma bark and, you know, the bark in and of itself is just placed there, it doesn't do a whole lot. Is it required per se? No. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting January 16, 2003 Page 72 of 132 Centers: Well, you know, where it's at and it's going to be high maintenance, you know, I would like to require the trees every 35 feet and leave it at that. All the way around. Borup: Except for on Franklin Road. Centers: Exactly. Except for on Franklin Road. Borup: I mean I don't see a lot of sense in landscaping between the bus parking and Sanitary Services truck parking, which is the way it's shown now. Centers: Right. Borup: You know, that doesn't make -- that doesn't make a lot of sense. Perhaps it may need something against a future property to be developed, but that could be handled when that plat comes forward, too, I think. If we allow for full landscaping, whether it's now or in the future on Franklin, that's what the public is going to see. Centers: I can develop a motion here. Let's see if I can get some support. We got to move on. Borup: Yes. Centers: I would like to recommend approval to the City Council for Item Number 7 on our Agenda CUP 02-046, request for Conditional Use Permit for a bus facility in an I-L zone for Joint School District No.2 by Joint School District No.2, at 2170 West Franklin Road, including all staff comments. In addition, the Landscape Plan can be altered or should be altered to include trees every 35 feet that surround the applicant's use, excluding the parcel that is intended to be occupied by SSI. The landscaping fronting on Franklin Road shall be as submitted. Fencing - applicant has indicated that fencing shall surround the property and at the north side they will include lattice or a shield type fence. That's all we had, isn't it? In other words, our - do you know where I'm at on that -- every 35 feet on those trees? Borup: Well, that's what's submitted now, but I'm not sure -- and, then, this is-- Centers: I will give the drawing to the -- this is what we are - Borup: Essentially, you're saying along three sides of the property, then? Centers: Yes like this, Mr. Chairman, and I will give this to the attorney. Borup: Well, this is, actually, the property that -- Centers: Okay see, this is the SSI. They don't have to go around there do the normal on Franklin Road go right around with your trees. down to the SSI property. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting January 16, 2003 Page 73 of 132 Borup: Actually, no. I think their property is to the north of that where you see those trees. That property is the undeveloped you're looking at there. Flip over to the next page. Centers: So SSI is down here. Borup: Off that plat right. Well, I'm a little confused on that. Is there some vacant property between SSI and the bus barn -- I mean the -- Centers: Where is SSI? McKinnon: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, there is some land that's not being developed right now by SSC. They intend to expand in the future. Borup: Okay that 330 by 282 is just their present and they are retaining ownership of the other? McKinnon: They are retaining ownership of both of those large parcels at this time and they are developing the property that's to the north of the smaller parcel and to the east of that smaller parcel. They intend 0 neither redeveloping that smaller parcel in the future or -- Borup: Okay so the smaller parcel is not even being developed at this point? McKinnon: That's correct. That's the parcel that's not being developed. Centers: And that will be given to staff. The little master drawing will be given to staff for the proposed landscaping end of motion. Rohm: I will second that. McKinnon: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, before you take action on that, did that include any recommendation for allowing recycled asphalt? Centers: I think we agreed that the asphalt was fine. McKinnon: Okay. Centers: That would be part of my motion. McKinnon: Thank you. Centers: The proposed asphalt. It's not asphalt. It's ground up asphalt. That's fine. McKinnon: Thank you. Was there a second? Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting January 16, 2003 Page 74 of 132 Rohm: Yes. I seconded it. Borup: Motion and second. Any discussion? All in favor? Anyopposed? Thank you. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT Borup: We will take a short break at this time. (Recess at 10:10 P.M.) (Reconvened at 10:27 P.M.) Item 8. Item 9. Item 10. Public Hearing: AZ 02-027 Request for zoning boundary modification of R-40 and C-C zones on 11.76 acres for proposed Locust Grove Place Subdivision by Wardle and Associates - west of North Locust Grove Road and south of East Fairview Avenue: Public Hearing: PP 02-026 Request for Preliminary Plat approval for 74 building lots and 11 other lots on 11.76 acres in proposed R-40 and C-C zones for proposed Locust Grove Place Subdivision by Wardle and Associates - west of North Locust Grove Road and south of East Fairview Avenue: Public Hearing: CUP 02-041 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a Planned Developrnent for 74 townhouses and 2 office/commerciallots on 11.76 acres for proposed Locust Grove Place Subdivision by Wardle and Associates - west of North Locust Grove Road and south of East Fairview Avenue: Borup: Okay. We are ready to reconvene our Planning and Zoning meeting so we will start -- hello, Commissioners. Item Numbers 8, 9, and 10, Public Hearing AZ 02-027, request for zoning boundary modification of R-40 and C-Z on 11.76 acres for the proposed Locust Grove Place Subdivision. Along with that is PP 02-026, preliminary -- or request for Preliminary Plat approval for 74 building lots and 11 0 ther lots 0 n the same property and CUP 02-041, request for a Conditional Use Permit for a Planned Development for 74 townhouses and two 0 ffice c ommerciall ots, again, 0 n the same property. We'd like to open all three Public Hearings at this time and start with the staff report. McKinnon: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission. This project might sound a little familiar to you, again, since it is pretty much the second one that you have seen before. Originally, when this application came in front of you, it wasn't an application for attached single-family dwellings it was an application for 180 apartments with six commercial lots on the area that's highlighted on the overhead in front of you. Locust Grove Road is running north and south. The property that fronts onto it is approximately a quarter mile south of Franklin -- or Fairview Avenue. The property runs