HomeMy WebLinkAbout2002 07-02
Meridian City Council Regular Meeting July 2, 2002
The regular meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:35 P.M.,
Tuesday, July 2, 2002, by Mayor Robert D. Corrie.
Members Present: Mayor Robert Corrie, Tammy de Weerd, Keith Bird, Cherie
McCandless and William Nary.
Others Present: Bill Nichols, Gary Smith, Brad Watson, Mike Worley, Will Berg, Ken
Bowers, Tom Kuntz, and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
__X Tammy de Weerd _ X__ Bill Nary
__X Cherie McCandless __X Keith Bird
__X Mayor Robert Corrie
Corrie: All right. I will open the regular meeting of the Meridian City Council, Tuesday,
July the 2nd at 6:35 p.m. and please have roll-call attendance, please, Mr. Clerk.
Item 2: Adoption of the Agenda:
Corrie: Okay. Thank you. Item No. 2 is Adoption of the Agenda.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would -- as we got a verbal, I would ask the developer, the developer's
representative to come up. Items K, L, and M on the Consent Agenda has been asked
to be tabled to July 16th. With that change I would move that we adopt the Agenda as
published.
McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded to adopt the Agenda, except for the
K, L, and M be tabled to 7/16/02. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in
favor of the motion say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 3: Consent Agenda:
A. June 4, 2002
Approve minutes from City Council Regular Meeting:
Approve
B. June 11, 2002
Approve minutes from City Council Regular Workshop:
Approve
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C. June 18, 2002
Approve minutes from City Council Regular Meeting:
Approve
D. June 24, 2002
Approve minutes from City Council Special Joint
Approve
Workshop:
E. Development Agreement: AZ 01-021
Request for annexation and
Berkeley
zoning of 4.83 acres from RUT to R-8 zones for proposed
Square Subdivision
by Wardle and Associates – 1025 North Ten Mile
Approve
Road:
F. Development Agreement: AZ 02-006
Request for annexation and
Heritage
zoning of 76.16 acres from RUT to R-8 zones for proposed
Commons
by Brighton Corporation – west side of North Locust Grove
Approve
Road between East McMillan Road and East Ustick Road:
G.Development Agreement: AZ 02-002
Request for annexation and
Cooper
zoning of 5.81 acres from RUT to R-40 zones for proposed
Canyon Subdivision
by Wildwood Development, LLC – east of North
Approve
Locust Grove Road and south of East Wilson Lane:
H. Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law: AZ 02-003
Request for
annexation and zoning of 3.84 acres from R-1 to R-8 zones for proposed
Amberstone Subdivision
by Jim Jewett – south of West Cherry Lane
Approve
and south of North Summertree Way:
I. Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law: PP 02-002
Request for
Preliminary Plat approval of 19 building lots and 2 other lots on 3.84 acres
Amberstone Subdivision
in a proposed R-8 zone for proposed by Jim
Jewett – south of West Cherry Lane and south of North Summertree Way:
Approve
J. Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law: AZ02-009
Request for
annexation and zoning of 1.00 acre from RUT to L-O zones for the
Meridian Fire Department Locust Grove Substation
proposed property
Approve
by the City of Meridian – 3545 North Locust Grove Road:
K. Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law: AZ 02-005
Request for
annexation and zoning of 196.20 acres from RT to R-4 zones for proposed
Tuscany Lakes Subdivision
by Gem Park II Partnership – west of South
Table until August 6, 2002
Eagle Road and south of East Victory Road:
L. Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law: PP 02-006
Request for
Preliminary Plat approval of 455 single-family lots, 38 common lots and 1
Tuscany
other lot on 190.47 acres in a proposed R-4 zone for proposed
Lakes Subdivision
by Gem Park II Partnership – west of South Eagle
Table until August 6, 2002
Road and south of East Victory Road:
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M. Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law: CUP 02-006
Request for
a Conditional Use Permit for a Planned Unit Development consisting of
353 buildable lots and 31 common lots on 138.88 acres for proposed
Tuscany Lakes Subdivision
by Gem Park II Partnership – west of South
Table until August 6, 2002
Eagle Road and south of East Victory Road:
Corrie: Consent Agenda.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Council, should we have the developer publicly come up and request these --
Nary: Probably would be better.
Bird: I believe Kent Brown is here representing the developers. He has requested
privately to remove K, L, and M. If he would come up publicly and ask that, I would
certainly appreciate it.
Corrie: Mr. Brown.
Brown: We'd like to work with the Highway District on the Dartmore section. If we could
have probably three weeks, instead of a couple, give us time to deal with them and we
probably have to go before their commission, because we do have an approved staff
report.
De Weerd: So the first meeting in August? August 6th?
Brown: That would be --
Bird: Thank you. With that, Mr. Mayor, with your permission, I would move that we
approve the Consent Agenda with the tabling of Items K, L, and M to August 6th, 2002.
De Weerd: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded. Any further discussion? Hearing
none, roll-call vote, Mr. Berg.
Roll-Call: Bird, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Nary, aye.
Corrie: Okay. All ayes. Motion is carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 4: Approve Bills:
Corrie: Item No. 4 is approval of the bills. Motion to approve the bills.
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De Weerd: I have got a copy of them.
Corrie: Do you want to table those?
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor, I move to approve the bills to be paid.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: All right. Motion has been made and seconded to pay the bills. Any further
discussion? All those in favor say aye. Opposed no. Motion is carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 5: Department Reports
A. Meridian Police Department – Chief Worley
1. Janitorial Service Bid Award: Approve award to Clean &
Fresh Carpets
Corrie: We will need to have a little talk on that, Mr. Clerk. Department Reports. First,
Meridian Police Department, Chief Worley, janitorial service bid award.
Worley: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council. Due to the increase size of the
new Meridian Police Department, we went out to an open bid for janitorial services for
the remainder of this year and for next fiscal year. We had five responsive bidders. The
lowest bidder was Clean and Fresh Carpets in the amount $2,259.00 per month and
that to be covered as the residual expenses for remainder of this year and then we have
an enhancement in the amount of 30,000 dollars in next year's budget for the increased
janitorial. This was the low bidder, so I would request Council approval and for the
Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest the contract with Clean and Fresh Carpets from
July 15th of this year to September 30th, 2003.
Corrie: Council, any discussion? Questions? Hearing none, I'll entertain a motion on the
requested motion.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I would move the approval Clean and Fresh Carpets as the low bid for the
cleaning and janitorial service for the Meridian Police Department agreement for the --
looks like a bid amount of $2,259 per month, for the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to
attest to said agreement.
Bird: Second.
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Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded. Is there any further discussion?
Hearing none. All those in favor of the motion say aye. Opposed no. All ayes. Motion
carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 6: (Items Moved from Consent Agenda)
Corrie: No items were removed from the Consent Agenda.
Item 7: Tabled from June 24, 2002: Lease Agreement with Chamber of
Commerce:
Corrie: Item No. 7 is tabled from June the 24th, 2002. This is a lease agreement with
the Chamber of Commerce. Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, Joe Borton, Chamber President, is here
with some of his board members as you requested they be. The Chamber lease of the
Chamber building site in Storey Park has been subject to renegotiations for longer than
anybody really cares to admit and there is some final items that need to be cleared up
with regard to that and Mr. Kuntz and I, in discussing those items in correspondence
that went to Mr. Borton, just need some clarification as to the respective intent in what's
been done before. So Mr. Borton -- I believe you have in your materials -- and may not
-- it shouldn't be on the CD ROM, but a hard copy, of a letter from Mr. Borton dated July
1st, which addresses the issues that -- in the lease agreement that the Chamber signed
there was -- there were some things deleted and some things added and just to review
those, there was a provision under use of premises which required the city to maintain
landscaping and watering of the premises, which would essentially be anything outside
of the Chamber building and there is -- so we need some discussion on that, maybe
clarify that in terms of what does that mean with regard to flower beds or shrubbery.
There was a right of inspection paragraph that was removed, but that right of inspection
paragraph was a carry over from the prior lease. It looked to be boilerplate language
that came over from a lease where someone would be leasing the building, as opposed
to just leasing the land. So perhaps that doesn't need to be in there. There was also a
deletion of a portion of a default paragraph regarding nonpayment and since this is a
relatively small lease, which has all of the lease payments made up front, that's, in my
estimation, not a major issue. The lease is for 50 years and at the end of that time if we
renegotiate a new lease, we can deal with any issues regarding nonpayment or
whatever at that time, if any of us are still here. Those are really the only things that I
think need to be discussed. There is also an issue raised by Mr. Kuntz with regard to
snow removal and what the parties expectations were regarding that.
Corrie: Okay.
Nichols: I don't think I have left anything out. If I have, Mr. Borton can tell me.
Borton: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, you haven't left anything out.
The letter from July 1st tried to address some of those concerns.
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Corrie: Name for the record, please.
Borton: Oh. Joe Borton. My address?
Corrie: Thank you. 1005 White Lily in Meridian.
De Weerd: I think he should be sworn.
Borton: Let the record reflect that Councilwoman de Weerd is being difficult. The only
issue that -- two of the issues, one of them brand new, at least to me. I talked with Terry
briefly, is the issue of snow removal. The other one that I didn't think -- it never
appeared to be one that was still up in the air was the issue of landscape maintenance,
the watering and maintaining the landscape. It's always been our impression that the
city -- city property directs the landscaping and with our talks with Tom and Elroy was
going to water it and maintain it. They are set up now I believe now where it's on the
city's irrigation system, so I'm kind of in the dark. With regards to shrubberies and
flowers, whether that's going to be something separate that the Chamber is going to
maintain, it's kind of new to me to hear something like that. There is a comment that it's
a gray area and I just don't know really where the line would be drawn who waters the
rhododendrons, but not the evergreen shrubs and whatnot. It was our understanding --
and Teri Sackman can comment on that as well -- that the city's master plan with
regards to landscaping for Storey Park would contain landscaping the park in or around
the Chamber building and that would be maintained by the city and controlled by the
city. So that's our understanding and that's the insertional language in the lease, which
is approved by our board. So if there is any further questions on that --
Corrie: I guess, Joe, you want the city to put the flowers in and keep it up? I think before
the Chamber put some flowers in and we watered them or -- I don't know. That was
what Tom was wondering is if you put the flowers in, do you want us to take care of
them or do you want us to put the flowers in -- just as a gray zone for him and if you
want him to do it all, he'll do it all, or if you want to do part of it, you can do part of it. So
that was where his confusion was coming in.
Borton: Okay. Mr. Mayor and Members of the Council, one of the things -- Tom's been
pretty cooperative in trying to get our input as to the landscaping plan and it went as far
as the Chamber being willing in our solicitation efforts for building fund to also solicit
funds for planting material, things of that nature. We haven't done that, because we
wanted to hear, really, what the parks grand plan was. If the Chamber wanted to make it
gravel and asphalt all around, that probably wouldn't fit. So we have been pretty
cooperative throughout. The Chamber's involvement through Tom's direction would be
to assist in obtaining materials, if we are going to be out there and help plant them, we
can do a planting party or whatnot, we will do that, but from thereon afterwards it would
be the city's responsibility to maintain, alter, or amend as they see fit.
Corrie: Tom -- oh, you're here. I'm sorry. You're here and so am I now. Tom.
Kuntz: Mr. Mayor and Council, just to clarify a couple of things. I don't think the grounds
maintenance pertaining to turf, trees, and irrigation systems has ever been an issue, nor
is it an issue in this case with the parks department. The issue is if the Chamber is
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requesting a higher level of landscaping directly adjacent to their building, to the sides
and right in front where the walkway is and stuff, we are willing to help plant that and
cooperate with the Chamber to make that happen, but to maintain those flower beds is
a level of service that is higher than we would provide if it were a normal park setting
and there is a cost that goes along with that as far as staff time to maintain the flower
beds and shrub beds and so I guess the issue with our department is what level of
service does the Chamber want to see directly in front of their building and I'm talking
about right in front of the front windows, that type of thing. It's a level of service that we
are not prepared at this time to maintain with extra -- without extraordinary costs being
incurred by the parks department. So maybe if we could address that issue first and
then come back to the snow removal and upkeep of the parking lot. You know, over a
50 year period there will need to be some sealing done, some restriping of lines and
that type of thing, and, really, all we are looking for is direction from the City Council. We
will do whatever the Council requests us to do.
Sackman: Mr. Mayor, Teri Sackman, 2551 Misty Drive. You want to swear me in,
Tammy? I can speak to the landscaping directly. Following the ribbon cutting for the
new playground in Storey Park I met with Elroy and he basically -- we did a walk around
the building, I said what are you thinking, we were both thinking the same thing, low
maintenance sod, trees. He had one area where he had suggested that he would like to
put in bushes and flowers, but I'm not sure whether that was the final plan or not. The
parking lot has some bushes and flowers at the moment. At that time basically I gave --
told Elroy the position of the Chamber board is that since the parks department will be
putting their landscaping and maintaining it, that whatever the parks department wanted
to do was fine with the Chamber board. So if -- so whether or not we put bushes in, I
guess, is -- according to the Chamber board, is up to the parks department staff. There
is one area right in front of our building that faces the parking lot. There has been some
talk about putting in -- putting our pavers back in as a patio and if we do that, my verbal
agreement with Elroy is that the park staff would not be expected to do that, it will either
be an Eagle Scout project or we will contract that out, but as far as the rest of the
landscaping, that will be up to the park staff and I guess that probably answers those
questions for you. Oh, I will also mention that I have contacted Du-Rite Nursery and
Victory Greens, both who have indicated an interest in doing some donation of plants
and/or sod. As soon as Elroy gets with them with a plan, they will tell us what they will
be able to donate, so --
Kuntz: Mayor and Council, just to clarify Teri's comments. It sounds like the Chamber is
willing to go along with us with our landscaping plans with the understanding that there
will be a low level of maintenance required for those items.
Sackman: That is correct. You want to talk parking now?
Borton: With regards to the snow removal.
Kuntz: Two issues on the parking, Council and Mayor. One is on snow removal in the --
the parking lot area in the past we have not done snow removal in the parking lot,
because the park technically is not being used during snow season. We do maintain
sidewalks, however, because we have the equipment necessary to do that. There may
be an opportunity this year at budget time to add a cab over our piece of equipment that
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we would use for snow removal and we would certainly be willing to provide that service
as part of our normal snow clean up in that park. But that would be one issue. And then
the other one would be as far as sealing the parking lot and restriping it, because that
will need that -- that asphalt need that over a 50 year period of time.
De Weerd: How about insulated coveralls?
Nary: I was thinking the exact same thing.
Corrie: Could be a cold winter. Okay.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Ms. de Weerd.
De Weerd: Joe, I think the reason we asked you to be here is there were a couple of
changes with no cover letter explaining the changes when we got it back and so it was
felt that we would like to just hear your comments and I don't think anyone on the
Council addressed any concern on maintenance and neither did our staff. So it was just
to get some clarity on that -- on the couple of items that our city attorney pointed out and
we appreciate you and your board members being here.
Borton: Not a problem.
Corrie: Okay. Any other comments?
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Joe, in your letter you had one concern of when the parking lot was going and the
public restrooms were going to open.
Borton: Absolutely.
Bird: Do we have a date on them, Tom, on the public restrooms?
Huff: Mr. Bird?
Bird: Yes.
Huff: On the public restrooms I think the only thing we are waiting for on those is the
partition doors. During construction there was a couple of changes made and so the
once that we did get or were going to end up with did not fit, so we sent those back --
Tom I believe we sent those back to get those made to fit those openings and we
expect those pretty soon. I should have heard something yesterday about that, but I
didn't get the message when they would be here. The rest of the bathroom is done and
they are basically functional, there is just no privacy doors on them. Otherwise, they
work fine. As far as -- what was the other question? About parking lot? Paving? What
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I'm facing there is during the construction we had a main irrigation line fail one evening.
We rerouted that so it would no longer be under the parking lot surface. What we
experienced there over the next few days, we just filled that whole thing up with water
and we let it sit for, you know, as long as we could and we thought we could start to
work it and there is really a good base under there, it was really hard, and it has a little
bit of clay and rock and stuff in it, but now that it's saturated it's dry time is really really
slow and we tried to get it to where we could plumb it -- or I mean pave it last week, but
it was still pumping in certain sections and the paving company would not warranty it if
we did it that way. So my guess is that we are going to start using that pretty soon as a
gravel base and if it takes -- I took an estimate from them to do excavation and some
map work down in there and some fill and redo that and they wanted 5,000 dollars and I
won't do it. And so if it has to sit three weeks to dry out, it will sit three weeks and then
we can pave it and I'll get them to warranty it before they do. Whatever equipment -- we
took some heavy equipment on it and there is about three little areas out there that we
are pumping that they wanted me to sign off and at the time Tom and I talked about it,
we decided not to do it and then -- but it will be usable, it will just be that gravel base
until it finally dries out and then we will pave it.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: So, in other words, our public restrooms, because of the non-privacy, are not open
for the public?
Huff: That's the only reason they are not open at this point.
Bird: So our participants in the playground and stuff have no place to go to any
restrooms in the park?
Huff: We have some portables out there and we still have the other restrooms available.
There is some further away and we just point people in that direction. But as soon as
those are here and Tom gets those in, we will open those right up.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: Can you put some kind of temporary sign on the Chamber building or where
your bathrooms would be to kind of direct them where the other bathrooms are and that
they have portables to use in the meantime or where the permanent facilities are?
Kuntz: Mayor and Council, we have actually ordered a permanent sign that will go on
the side of the building, so if you are in the shelter area, you will be able to visually see
the sign with an arrow pointing to the bathrooms. In the meantime, we are supposed to
have portables out there and if they are not out there or they are not in a location where
they are readily visible, we will make sure they get moved before the Fourth of July, so
that they are there.
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De Weerd: That would be good.
Huff: Yeah. We will have -- you know, we get a lot of people in there on the Fourth and
so we have portables coming back in tomorrow and they will be up close to the
Chamber of Commerce building and -- but very accessible and then the other
bathrooms on the other side will be open, too. We will have that covered for the
weekend.
De Weerd: Okay.
Huff: Sorry about the slowness on the parking lot. It was just one night of a mess and
just couldn't --
Corrie: Any other questions? Comments?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Okay. What's the recommendation of Council on this lease?
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I believe that we have, according to Mr. Borton's letter with our attorney, we have
worked out the wording in a couple areas that was questionable; am I correct? Am I
correct?
Corrie: Looking at the two attorneys.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor and Members of the Council, I think you need to -- it sounds to me
like basically what you're saying and what the Chamber and the parks department is
saying, the existing language that is in the lease that's signed is adequate with regard to
maintaining landscaping and irrigating landscaping at the Chamber building. I mean
that's what I gleaned out of --
Corrie: You got it.
Nichols: The issue of snow removal, well, you haven't told us -- Tom has told us that he
hasn't removed snow from the parking lot in previous years and the lease is silent as to
snow removal from the parking lot and the record would say -- I mean not that we get --
you know, it's not North Dakota, but if you want the parks department to remove snow
from the Chamber parking lot, we need to write it into the lease.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: Although I haven't heard about the covered cab, I do remember when we
purchased some equipment, they said we could get a blade on it for snow removal, so I
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don't think that should be an issue. I think the city could probably take care of all the
snow that this area gets.
Borton: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Joe.
Borton: Members of the Council, that snow removal could also be accounted for under
the general maintenance of the property and premises, not unlike needing to mow the
yard when the grass is long or pull the weeds, the removal of snow from the premises
as well, so perhaps the language that's in there covers that contingency whenever it
does arise.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Not to beat this horse to death any further, but I mean it is a park, it is open, I
mean I don't think it matters if it's winter, I have seen kids in there playing in the
wintertime and we have one less road to remove snow on in there now, so I don't see
any reason we can't get it done. So I'm satisfied. I think Councilmember de Weerd was
correct, Joe. I think the reason we just asked this, because if your letter had previously
come we probably would have been fine. So I think it's fine.
Corrie: Okay.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor, then, it sounds to me that what you need to do is approve the lease
as it's already signed, then.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I'd approve the lease with the Chamber of Commerce of Meridian as presented
and signed by the Chamber.
McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded. Any other discussion?
Borton: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council?
Corrie: Joe.
Borton: Just for the record to be clear, there is $14.00 remaining on the lease. We do
have a check, which we can't present until tomorrow. So we will put it in the mail. Just to
let you know.
Nary: Thanks for bringing it up.
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Corrie: Since it's coming from the attorney we will accept that.
De Weerd: I'm glad you did that before we voted.
Bird: Yeah.
Corrie: Any other discussion? Okay. All those in favor of the motion say aye. Opposed
no. All ayes. Thank you, Joe.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 8: Resolution No.: : Adoption of Strategic Plan of the
City of Meridian:
Corrie: Item No. 8 is a resolution, adoption of the Strategic Plan of the City of Meridian.
Resolution No. 02-378. Okay. If you would, please, read the Resolution by title only,
please.
Berg: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council. Ordinance -- or, excuse me,
Resolution No. 02-378, a Resolution of the Mayor and City Council of the City of
Meridian to provide for findings and to establish a comprehensive strategic plan for the
City of Meridian providing for clear insight regarding the major challenges facing the
city, providing for goals, objectives, major initiatives, and anticipated actions established
by each city department and providing an effective date.
Corrie: Okay. You have heard the Resolution No. 02-378 read by Title only. Is there
anyone from the audience that would like to have it read it its entirety? Okay. Council,
any discussion on Resolution 02-378?
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I don't know. I think this resolution says a great deal as to the commitment
from the City of Meridian and the elected officials to create a vision for our community
and a deep commitment to public service and customer service to our public. It sets out
a vision as to the direction that we would like to see this community proceed and we
have great involvement of our city employees. It also identifies the key issues and
challenges that are facing this community and the decision makers. So it is a first step
to kind of set a direction and a vision to where we want to go and this is a real exciting
opportunity to share this to the community. So I would invite anyone interested in seeing
this document to certainly come by City Hall and get a better idea of some of the things
that face each of our individual departments, as well as the direction that we see the city
going in the next -- in the years to come. So I just -- we had great participation and it's,
indeed, a pleasure to see this document come in front of us and its adoption, so --
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
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Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I just wanted one follow-up comment to that, too, as well. I think it's not just the
vision and direction from the Mayor and the Council, but I think it's the same
commitment and vision from the departments as well and I think that's something that
we haven't had in the past and it's something that we have a unified front in trying to go
forward in the future and I think that's a real positive from the departments as well and I
would agree with Counsel Member de Weerd, I think everybody that lives here should
want to take a look at that and see what our vision is and where we think the city is
going to be.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: We did have an executive summary to this. Is that something we can post
on our web site?
Corrie: I think so. We can put the whole plan on.
De Weerd: Well, if that could be done, I would like to see the -- direct staff to see that
that happens.
Corrie: Okay. Any other discussion? Okay. Hearing none, I'll entertain a motion on the
resolution.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I move that we approve Resolution No. 02-378, adoption of the Strategic
Plan of the City of Meridian.
Nary: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded to approve Resolution No. 02-378,
the Strategic Plan of the City of Meridian. Further discussion? Hearing none, all those in
favor of the motion say aye. Opposed no. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 9: Continued Public Hearing from June 4, 2002:
Proposed
Comprehensive Parks and Recreation System and Action Plan:
Corrie: No. 9 is a continued Public Hearing from June the 4th, 2002, proposed
Comprehensive Parks and Recreation System and Action Plan. I believe, Tom, you did
send us a letter that you wanted to have that continued to the 17th of August?
Bird: 13th.
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Corrie: 19th?
De Weerd: 13th.
Corrie: 13th of August. Is that correct?
Kuntz: Yes, Mayor.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I'd move that we continue the Public Hearing for the Comprehensive Parks and
Recreation Action Plan until August 13th, 2002.
De Weerd: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Any other discussion?
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Isn't that still our workshop? So are we going to have a Public Hearing on that
day?
De Weerd: Oh, no.
Corrie: No.
Nary: So we want it on the 27th?
De Weerd: The 6th or the 20th.
Nary: The 27th is still a nonland use, so I don't know if we wanted to do it there, before
we actually change it.
Corrie: The 6th, Tom?
Kuntz: Please.
Bird: I would change that motion to August 6th, 2002.
De Weerd: Second would concur.
Corrie: Okay. The motion has been changed until -- changed to August the 6th, 2002.
Approval of the second. Any further discussion? All those in favor of the motion say aye.
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Opposed no. The Public Hearing on the proposed Comprehensive Parks and
Recreation System and Action Plan will be the August the 6th, 2002, meeting.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 10: Ordinance No. :AZ 01-021
Request for annexation
Berkeley
and zoning of 4.83 acres from RUT to R-8 zones for proposed
Square Subdivision
by Wardle and Associates – 1025 North Ten Mile
Road:
Corrie: Item No. 10 is an Ordinance and that would be 02-959. This is a request for
annexation and zoning of 4.83 acres from RUT to an R-8 zone in proposed Berkeley
Square Subdivision by Wardle and Associates, 1025 North Ten Mile Road. Mr. Clerk, if
you would read Ordinance No. 02-959 by title only at this time.
Berg: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council. Ordinance No. 02-959. An
Ordinance finding that certain land owned by Jake Centers to be known as Berkeley
Square Subdivision located at 1025 North Ten Mile Road and which lies contiguous or
adjacent to the city limits of the City of Meridian, County of Ada, State of Idaho, and
finding that the owner has made a request for annexation in writing to the Council and
that said land be annexed to the City of Meridian and zoning designated Medium
Density Residential District (R-8) and declaring that said land by proper legal description
as described below be a part of the City of Meridian, County of Ada, State of Idaho,
repealing all ordinances, resolutions, orders or parts thereof in conflict herewith and
directing the city engineer to add said property to the official maps of the City of
Meridian, Idaho, and directing the Clerk of the City of Meridian to file a certified copy of
the ordinance and map of the area to be annexed to the Ada County recorder, auditor,
treasurer and assessor and the State Tax Commission of the State of Idaho, pursuant
to Idaho Code Section 50-223 and Section 63-2215.
Corrie: Okay. You have heard the reading of Ordinance No. 02-959 by the Berkeley
Square Subdivision by title only. Is there anyone from the audience that would like to
have it read in its entirety? Okay. Council, I'll entertain a motion on Ordinance No. 02-
959.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I would move the approval of Ordinance No. 02-959, request for annexation and
zoning of 4.83 acres from RUT to R-8 for proposed Berkeley Square and to waive the
reading of the rules, pursuant to the Idaho Code.
McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded to approve Ordinance No. 02-959 with
suspension of rules. Any further discussion? Hearing none, roll-call vote, Mr. Clerk.
Roll-Call: Bird, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Nary, aye.
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July 2, 2002
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Corrie: All ayes. The Ordinance is approved.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 11:Ordinance No. : AZ 02-006
Request for annexation
Heritage
and zoning of 76.16 acres from RUT to R-8 zones for proposed
Commons
by Brighton Corporation – west side of North Locust Grove
Road between East McMillan Road and East Ustick Road:
Corrie: Next on the agenda is Item No. 11, Ordinance No. 02-960. This is a request for
annexation and zoning of 76.16 acres from RUT to R-8 zone for the proposed Heritage
Commons by Brighton Corporation, west side of North Locust Grove Road between
East McMillan Road and East Ustick Road. So at this time I would like to have the Clerk
read Ordinance No. 02-960 by title only, please.
Berg: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council. Ordinance No. 02-960. An
Ordinance finding that certain land to be known as Heritage Commons located on the
west side of Locust Grove Road between East McMillan Road and East Ustick Roads,
owned by Eugene Quenzer and which lies contiguous or adjacent to the city limits of the
City of Meridian, County of Ada, State of Idaho, and finding that the owner has made a
request for annexation in writing to the Council and that said land be annexed to the
City of Meridian and zoning designated Medium Density Residential District (R-8) and
declaring that said land by proper legal description as described below be a part of the
City of Meridian, County of Ada, State of Idaho, repealing all ordinances, resolutions,
orders or parts thereof in conflict herewith and directing the city engineer to add said
property to the official maps of the City of Meridian, Idaho, and directing the Clerk of the
City of Meridian to file a certified copy of the ordinance and map of the area to be
annexed to the Ada County recorder, auditor, treasurer and assessor and the State Tax
Commission of the State of Idaho, pursuant to Idaho Code Section 50-223 and Section
63-2215.
Corrie: Okay. You have heard the reading of Ordinance No. 02-960, Heritage
Commons, by title only. Is there anyone from the audience that would like to have it
read in its entirety? Hearing none, I will entertain a motion from the Council on
Ordinance No. 02-960.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I move we approve Ordinance No. 02-960, request for annexation and
zoning of 76.16 acres from RUT to R-8 zone from the proposed Heritage Commons,
with suspension of rules pursuant to state code.
Nary: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made to accept Ordinance No. 02-960 with suspension
of rules. Any further discussion? Hearing none, roll-call vote, Mr. Berg.
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Roll-Call: Bird, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Nary, aye.
Corrie: All ayes. Motion is approved on Ordinance No. 02-960.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 12: Ordinance No. : AZ 02-002
Request for annexation
Cooper
and zoning of 5.81 acres from RUT to R-40 zones for proposed
Canyon Subdivision
by Wildwood Development, LLC – east of North
Locust Grove Road and south of East Wilson Lane:
Corrie: Next is Ordinance No. 02-961. This is a request for annexation and zoning of
5.81 acres from RUT to R-40 zone from proposed Cooper Canyon Subdivision by
Wildwood Development, LLC, east of North Locust Grove Road and south of East
Wilson Lane. At this time I'd like to have the City Clerk read Ordinance No. 02-961 by
title only, please.
Berg: Thank you, Mr. Mayor and Members of the Council. Ordinance No. 02-961. An
Ordinance finding that certain land owned by Lawrence Tuckness Trust of Meridian to
be known as Cooper Canyon Subdivision, located east of Locust Grove Road and south
of East Wilson Lane and which lies contiguous or adjacent to the city limits of the City of
Meridian, County of Ada, State of Idaho, and finding that the owner has made a request
for annexation in writing to the Council and that said land be annexed to the City of
Meridian and zoning designated High Density Residential District (R-40) and declaring
that said land by proper legal description as described below be a part of the City of
Meridian, County of Ada, State of Idaho, repealing all ordinances, resolutions, orders or
parts thereof in conflict herewith and directing the city engineer to add said property to
the official maps of the City of Meridian, Idaho, and directing the Clerk of the City of
Meridian to file a certified copy of the ordinance and map of the area to be annexed with
the Ada County recorder, auditor, treasurer and assessor and the State Tax
Commission of the State of Idaho, pursuant to Idaho Code Section 50-223 and Section
63-2215.
Corrie: Okay. You have heard the reading of Ordinance No. 02-961 by title only. Is there
anyone from the audience that would like to have it read in its entirety? Hearing none, I
will entertain a motion, Council, on Ordinance No. 02-961.
McCandless: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. McCandless.
McCandless: I move that we approve Ordinance No. 02-961, request for annexation
and zoning of 5.81 acres from RUT to R-40 zones for proposed Cooper Canyon
Subdivision with suspension of rules.
Nary: Second.
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Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded to approve Ordinance No. 02-961
with suspension of rules. Any further discussion? Hearing none, roll-call vote, Mr. Berg.
Roll-Call: Bird, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Nary, aye.
Corrie: All ayes. Motion is carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 13: Ordinance No. : AZ 02-007
Request for annexation
Marlin
and zoning of 40 acres from RUT to R-4 zones for proposed
Subdivision
by Winston Moore – north of I-84 and east of South Linder
Road:
Corrie: Item No. 13 is Ordinance No. 02-962. This is a request for annexation and
zoning of 40 acres from RUT to an R-4 zone for proposed Marlin Subdivision by
Winston Moore, north of I-84 and east of South Linder Road. At this time I would like to
have the City Clerk read Ordinance No. 02-962 by title only.
Berg: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council. Ordinance No. 02-962. An
Ordinance finding that certain land to be known as Marlin Subdivision located north of I-
84 and east of South Linder Road and which lies contiguous or adjacent to the city limits
of the City of Meridian, County of Ada, State of Idaho, and finding that the owner is
Kimball Properties, Limited Partnership, and Winston Moore have made a request for
annexation in writing to the Council and that said land be annexed to the City of
Meridian and zoning designated Low Density Residential District (R-4) and declaring
that said land by proper legal description as described below be a part of the City of
Meridian, County of Ada, State of Idaho, repealing all ordinances, resolutions, orders or
parts thereof in conflict herewith and directing the city engineer to add said property to
the official maps of the City of Meridian, Idaho, and directing the Clerk of the City of
Meridian to file a certified copy of the ordinance and map of the areas to be annexed
with the Ada County recorder, auditor, treasurer and assessor and the State Tax
Commission of the State of Idaho, pursuant to Idaho Code Section 50-223 and Section
63-2215.
Corrie: Okay. You have heard the reading of Ordinance No. 02-962, request for
annexation of Marlin Subdivision. Is there anybody from the audience that would like to
have it read in its entirety? Okay. Hearing none, I will entertain a motion from Council.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I'd move the approval of Item -- or Ordinance No. 02-962, request for annexation
and zoning of 40 acres from RUT to an R-4 zone for proposed Marlin Subdivision by
Winston Moore, including the summary that was attached as well and to waive the
reading of the rules pursuant to Idaho Code.
McCandless: Second.
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Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded to approve Ordinance No. 02-962
with suspension of rules. Any further discussion? Hearing none, roll-call vote, Mr. Berg.
Roll-Call: Bird, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Nary, aye.
Corrie: All ayes. Ordinance No. 02-962 is approved.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 14: Ordinance No. : AZ 01-025
Request for annexation
Silverstone
and zoning of 7.83 acres from R-1 to C-G zones for proposed
Corporate Center Phase II
by Sundance Investments – southeast corner
of South Eagle Road and East Overland Road:
Corrie: Item No. 14 is Ordinance No. 02-963. This is a request for annexation and
zoning of 7.83 acres from R-1 to C-G zones for proposed Silverstone Corporate Center
Phase II by Sundance Investments, southeast corner of South Eagle Road and East
Overland Road. At this time I would like to have the City Clerk read Ordinance No. 02-
964 by title only.
Berg: Thank you, Mr. Mayor and Members of the Council. Ordinance No. 02-963. An
Ordinance finding that certain land to be known as Silverstone Corporate Center Phase
II, located at the southeast corner of East Overland Road and South Eagle Road and
which lies contiguous or adjacent to the city limits of the City of Meridian, County of Ada,
State of Idaho, and finding that the owner has made a request for annexation in writing
to the Council and that said land be annexed to the City of Meridian and zoning
designated General Retail and Service Commercial District (C-G) and declaring that
said land by proper legal description as described below be a part of the City of
Meridian, County of Ada, State of Idaho, repealing all ordinances, resolutions, orders or
parts thereof in conflict herewith and directing the city engineer to add said property to
the official maps of the City of Meridian, Idaho, and directing the Clerk of the City of
Meridian to file a certified copy of the ordinance and map of the areas to be annexed
with the Ada County recorder, auditor, treasurer and assessor and the State Tax
Commission of the State of Idaho, pursuant to Idaho Code Section 50-223 and Section
63-2215.
Corrie: Okay. You have heard the reading of Ordinance No. 02-963, request for
annexation of Silverstone Corporate Center Phase II by title only. Anyone from the
audience that would like to have it read in its entirety? Hearing none, I'll entertain a
motion from the Council.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I move we approve Ordinance No. 02-963, request for annexation and
zoning of 7.83 acres from R-1 to C-G zones for the proposed Silverstone Corporate
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Center Phase II by suspension of rules pursuant to state code and ask the Mayor to
Sign and the Clerk to attest.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded. Any further discussion? Roll-call -- or,
excuse. Mr. Berg, roll-call vote.
Roll-Call: Bird, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Nary, aye.
Corrie: All ayes. Ordinance No. 02-963 is approved.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 15: FP 02-007
Request for Final Plat approval of 14 building lots on 20.95
Silverstone Subdivision Phase 2
acres in C-C and C-G zones for by
The Sundance Company – southeast corner of South Eagle Road and
East Overland Road:
Corrie: Item 15. This is a request for final plat approval of 14 building lots on 20.95
acres in C-C and C-G zones for Silverstone Subdivision Phase II by the Sundance
Company, southeast corner of South Eagle Road and East Overland Road. At this time
we will have staff comments, please.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, this is for an addition to the Silverstone Subdivision
Phase I that is located just north of the Ridenbaugh Canal, east of Eagle Road. They
have amended their development agreement to include this property and it will be
subject to all the terms as the conditional use that were approved in the previous phase.
You have our comments that are dated June 24th, 2002. There is one item that is not
shown on the plat now that we have requested. It would be a turnaround at the end of
Copper Point -- in this area here. We have asked that that be done outside of the
platting process, so that they can eliminate that at a future time when this property and
the roadway is extended to the east. Staff would recommend approval of this
development with all staff and agency requirements.
Corrie: Any question of staff from Council? Is the representative of Silverstone
Subdivision here this evening? Name and address, please, for the record.
Larsen: Mr. Mayor, my name is Cornell Larsen. Address 210 Murray Street, Garden
City.
Corrie: Do you have anything to add to the final plat request?
Larsen: We had nothing to add to it. We did have one question regarding one of the fire
department's comments. On Lot No. 11 he made a comment, which is Item No. 10, on
Joseph Silva's letter to the Planning and Zoning Commission dated July 1st. His letter
requested a second access required to that lot. We have two accesses planned in the
road improvements. One would be on the west boundary and one would be on the east
boundary. Just wanted to let Council know that we had already looked at that.
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Corrie: Chief, do you have any comments?
Bowers: No.
Corrie: Okay. Council, any comment?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Thank you very much. Okay. I'll entertain a motion on the request for final flat of
Silverstone Subdivision Phase II.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I move we approve the request for final plat of 14 building lots on 20.95
acres in a C-C and C-G zones Silverstone Subdivision Phase II, to ask the attorney to
draw up Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision and Order, to include
all staff comments.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded to approve the final plat in the
motion. Any further discussion? Hearing none, roll-call vote, Mr. Berg.
Roll-Call: Bird, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Nary, aye.
Corrie: All ayes. Request for final plat is approved.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 16: FP 02-008
Request for Final Plat approval of 58 single family lots, 5
office lots and 10 other lots on 38.65 acres in an R-4 zone for
Bridgetower Crossing Subdivision No. 2
by Primeland Development –
east of N. Ten Mile Road and south of W. McMillan Road:
Corrie: Item No. 16, a request for final plat approval of 58 single family lots, five office
lots, and ten other lots on 38.65 acres in an R-4 zone for Bridgetower Crossing
Subdivision No. 2 by Primeland Development, east of North Ten Mile Road and south of
West McMillan Road. At this time I'll invite staff's comments first.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, this property includes two areas of the Bridgetower
Crossing plat. The overall plan would show in this area over on Ten Mile. They have
made the addition. They have slightly increased the phase line in order to accommodate
the well lot that the city has requested in this phase of the development. The applicant
has submitted a response to our comments, which we received today. I think I'm
probably going to have to look over one of these about the micropath. Perhaps Ms.
Bowcutt could help. The item regarding the bike path on Bell Tower Drive, the bike
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lanes, the applicant has indicated that she has spoken with the Ada County Highway
District and they are not opposed to that and the applicant will provide four foot bike
lanes on each side of Bell Tower Drive. Under Item 10 of the staff's requirements we
had requested the micropath to continue north. That would extend -- this was a
condition of the preliminary plat that the bike -- or the pathway would extend not only to
and through to the office uses, but the pathway was also to be extended through this
common area to connect with the pathway in Bell Tower Drive. I believe that's what that
comment is referring to. The applicant has proposed not to improve a landscape lot.
Excuse me. The applicant is proposing that the landscaping not be continued from this
point on until the adjacent development is developed in a contiguous phase at a later
date. They are proposing to resubdivide that as part of a future submittal. Staff had
questioned the change of the policy of the Ada County Highway District and the City of
Meridian's requirement to have a 48 foot right of way dedicated from center line on all
section line roads and the applicant indicated that ACHD is now requiring only 40 feet of
right of way is needed if the sidewalk is constructed outside of the right of way in the
landscape buffer. We would approve of that change and ask that that condition be
modified to reflect that only a 40 foot right of way on Ten Mile Road is required. The
applicant is correct in the reference to Block 5 in Item No. 15 being incorrect. It should
read Block 6. As the applicant has agreed with all other terms and conditions of the staff
comments, we would ask that the plat be approved with all staff and agency conditions
as amended.
Corrie: Questions or comments of staff?
Corrie: Okay. Is the representative of Bridgetower Crossing Subdivision here tonight?
Name and address, please.
Bowcutt: Becky Bowcutt. 1100 East Valley High, Eagle.
Corrie: Okay. Do you agree with staff comments?
Bowcutt: Yes. I agree with staff's comments. I just wanted to make a clarification for the
record on the landscape lot. If you look at the final plat submitted, we are making a
connection in order to comply with the contiguous and successive clause in your
ordinance and then the Ada County engineers requirement that our phases be
contiguous in order to utilize the same subdivision name. So when Shari was explaining
to you what we would not landscape even though we are platting it is what you see
there. That's a landscape lot. It matches what was approved in the preliminary plat. It
will be replatted as we plat the collector, which will be in our third and next phase. But
we don't want to landscape it, because it will just get tore up. So it's just to meet the
intent of the ordinance and state law according to John Priester.
Corrie: Thank you. Questions and comments for the developer? Okay. I will entertain a
motion, then, on the request for final plat approval of Council.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
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Nary: Just a question. Shari, so do we need to amend some of the conditions, then, to
meet that need that the developer has requested or is it adequate the way it's written?
Stiles: The way the staff comments are currently written?
Nary: Yes. Do we need to amend one of these in regards to that issue, so that we can
get that in our findings? I'm looking at No. 10 and I think that's that pathway. Maybe I'm
misreading that. No. 11 talks about the planting plan is approved as submitted. I just
want -- you know, I just want to I guess get some direction to our counsel as to what the
findings should reflect.
Stiles: Ten is fine as written. I think the applicant just wanted a clarification on that for
the micropath.
Nary: And then eleven it talks about proposing not to improve any of that, so that
language probably is okay?
Stiles: Yes. Whatever the Council would like to do on that.
Nary: I mean if we are okay with the idea of not landscaping it, the language in 11 is
probably enough.
Stiles: Yes.
Nary: Okay.
Stiles: And the only other changes would be on No. 14. That should be deleted,
apparently. If you approve the 40 foot right of way, staff does recommend that that be
deleted.
Nary: Or we could just delete the second sentence.
Stiles: Yes.
Nary: Okay.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Just a moment.
Nary: Is that it?
Stiles: And then 15, to change the Block 5 to Block 6.
Corrie: Okay. Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: Well, just on No. 14, instead of deleting the second sentence, I would like it
-- it can be 40 feet, as long as -- provided there is a detached sidewalk. You know,
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because they could go 40 feet and put a sidewalk next to it and it kind of doesn't go with
the intent of the motion.
Corrie: Okay. Any other discussion? I'll entertain a motion from whoever wants to make
it. Mrs. de Weerd?
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor, I move that we approve the request for final plat of 58 single
family lots, five office lots, and ten other lots on 38.65 five acres in an R-4 zone for
Bridgetower Crossing Subdivision No. 2, with the changes as discussed on No. 14, just
adding a sentence that -- well, deleting the -- no. I don't want to delete that. Just adding
to the first sentence provided for the detached sidewalk. No. And then deleting the
second sentence. And then on item --
Nary: Fifteen.
De Weerd: -- fifteen to correct the block.
Nary: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded. Any further discussion? Roll-call
vote, Mr. Berg.
Roll-Call: Bird, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Nary, aye.
Corrie: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 17: FP 02-009 Request for Final Plat approval of 57 building lots and 5
other lots on 15.8 acres in an R-8 zone for
Sundance Subdivision No. 1
by Voigt Development – east of N. Meridian Road and north of E.
Ustick Road:
Corrie: Item No. 17 is a request for final plat approval of 57 building lots and five other
lots on 15.8 acres in an R-8 zone for Sundance Subdivision No. 1 by Voigt
Development, east of North Meridian Road and north of East Ustick Road. Staff
comments on Item 17.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, this is for the property directly east of the New Meridian
Settler's Park. I have just spoken with the applicant's representative. They are in
agreement with all of the requirements as listed in our staff report of June 24, 2002. The
applicant's representative did indicate an error in our report on page two, paragraph
nine, under site specific. It should read professional land -- or professional engineer,
instead of professional land surveyor. With that exception, we would ask that this final
plat be approved with all staff and agency conditions.
Corrie: Okay. Any questions, discussion of staff?
Bird: I have none.
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Corrie: Is the applicant here this evening? Name and address for the record, please.
Arnold: Mr. Mayor and Members of the City Council, for the record Steve Arnold. I'm
with Briggs Engineering, 1800 West Overland Road.
Corrie: Do you have any comments on the staff report?
Arnold: Other than the change on Site Specific No. 9.
Corrie: Okay. Any questions? All right. I will entertain a motion on the request for the
final plat of Sundance Subdivision No. 1.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I move the approval of FP 02-009, request for final plat approval of 57 building
lots and five other lots on 15.8 acres in an R-8 zone for Sundance Subdivision No. 1,
pursuant to all staff comments with the amendment to Item 9 to reflect a professional
engineer, not land surveyor, and for our counsel to prepare Findings of Facts and
Conclusions of Law and Decision and Order.
McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded with corrections. Any further
discussion? Hearing none, roll-call vote.
Roll-Call: Bird, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Nary, aye.
Corrie: All ayes. Motion is approved.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 18: FP 02-010
Request for Final Plat approval of 82 building lots and 18
Cedar Springs Subdivision
other lots on 29.11 acres in an R-4 zone for
No. 1
by J-U-B Engineers – northwest corner of W. Ustick Road and N.
Meridian Road:
Corrie: Item 18 is a request for final plat approval of 82 building lots and 18 other lots on
29.11 acres in an R-4 zone Cedar Springs Subdivision No. 1 by JUB Engineers,
northwest corner of West Ustick Road and North Meridian Road. Staff comments.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, this is the first phase of the approximately 100 acre
subdivision surrounding the Meridian Settler's Park on Meridian and Ustick Road. I have
talked to the applicant's representative tonight and would ask that you turn to page one
of the staff comments or scroll to the page one. The application summary, although
that's not going to be in the findings, we do have an error on the second bullet. That
second bullet item should be replaced -- or, I'm sorry, deleted. We were looking at
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another version of the plat and that was not -- that was not shown as an open space lot
in the approved preliminary plat. On page -- that was page one. I'm sorry. That was
page one of the comments. Page two of the comments, under site specific
requirements, Item 3 should be deleted. It also is regarding that lot which is located here
on the plat. The very first version of the preliminary plat did show this as a larger
drainage lot, landscaped lot, open space lot, and that has been approved differently on
the preliminary plat that came before Council. Item No. 6 under Site Specific
Requirements, the applicant's engineer had brought to our attention that the 25 in the
first line should be changed to 100. ACHD's requirement is to design the drainage areas
to insure that water is retained only during 100 year storm events. The applicant's
engineer also has been in discussion with the Settler's Irrigation District. They are not
allowing the White Drain to be tiled in this location. The applicant's engineer had
verbally requested a waiver of tiling of the White Drain and staff would recommend
approval of that waiver. So under general requirements on page three, we would
recommend that the Item No. 1, after natural waterways, insert with the exception of the
White Drain. With that we would recommend approval with the conditions as amended
and with all agency conditions.
Corrie: Okay. Council comments?
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Mrs. Stiles, on No. 10 of the Site Specific Requirements has that determined by
land surveyor again. Is that okay or should that be engineer?
Stiles; It should be engineer. Thank you.
Nary: Thank you.
Corrie: Okay. Any other questions? Okay. Is the developer here this evening? Give your
name and address for the record.
Lee: My name is Gary Lee with JUB Engineers, 250 South Beachwood, Boise.
Representing Hal Murdock on this application.
Corrie: Any other comments other than what staff has made?
Lee: I had one comment on the letter from Chief Silva from the fire department. I forgot
to review that with Shari, but under his Item 10 it talks about the landscape island that's
located off of North Meridian Road and enters our project, I think Baskin Street. He
wanted us to move that landscape island back ten feet to allow for turning movements
of his fire truck. I checked those this afternoon and we meet their requirements of the
radius as indicated in Item 5 of his letter. So I'd like to have the opportunity to talk to
Chief Silva about that issue and resolve it to his satisfaction. All other items on the site
specific recommendation from Shari --
Corrie: Okay. Council have any questions?
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Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: So, Mr. Lee, should we delay this, then, to allow you the opportunity to do that?
Lee: Well, I would prefer not. I'd like to get approval and proceed. We have got our
plans about ready to go and start construction. I don't know if there is anyway to move
this in that -- that item with the fire department.
Nary: If we were to make the condition on the fire department's letter that the landscape
island located on the entrance off of North Meridian Road would be required to be
pursuant to Item 5, shall have a radii within 28 feet inside, 48 outside, that's the one
you're saying it already meets that?
Lee: Correct.
Nary: So if we just say 10 basically has to comply with five, that's probably fine?
Lee: I think so.
Nary: Chief, are you okay with that?
Corrie: Chief?
Bowers: Mayor Corrie and City Council Members, yes, that will be fine.
Corrie: Thank you.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Yes, Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, if I could suggest that we simply insert at
the beginning of Item 10 something that says unless the plat complies with the required
radius in -- the radii I should say on Item 5 of the fire department letter -- in other words,
if they comply, fine. If not, then they have to move it.
Corrie: Was there a staff -- further staff comment?
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, the parks director has indicated that he had written a
letter -- I'm sorry. It's not this one. It's one that's already done. Never mind. It was for a
different project.
Corrie: Okay. Thank you. Any other discussion? I'll entertain a motion, then, on the
request for final plat on Cedar Springs Subdivision No. 1.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
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Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I guess two things to all the folks who came the public hearings. This is the last
one of these. The public hearings are next. We don't have anymore of this stuff, so we
will be done with this in just a second. But I would move the approval of FP 02-010,
request for final plat approval of 82 building lots and 18 other lots on 29.11 acres in an
R-4 zone for Cedar Springs Subdivision No. 1 pursuant to the staff comments with the
following correction: For Site Specific Requirement No. 6, that 25 be corrected to 100
year storm event. On page one, the second bullet on the application summary regarding
Lot 2, Block 14, be deleted; that item Site Specific Requirement No. 10 be corrected,
that it be a professional engineer, not land surveyor, and that No. 10 of the fire
department comments be amended to reflect what Mr. Nichols said -- and I can't
remember, I didn't write it down, but it be compliant -- No. 10 be compliant with No. 5
and that it be consistent for the landscape island and I think that is all the corrections
that we had. So we get counsel to prepare Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law
and Decision and Order.
Bird: Second.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: There are two items. Delete No. 3 on page two and on page three, No. 1,
add with the exception of the White Drain.
Nary: Oh. You're right. I'm sorry. You're right. No. 1, exception of the White Drain and
delete which one? Three? Oh, you're right. Delete No. 3. I'm sorry. Delete No. 3, the
Site Specific Requirements that related to the other bullet and that are reflected in -- is
there a specific one that reflected in the White Drain. No. 1 of general requirements.
After natural waterways to reflect with the exception of the White Drain.
Corrie: Thank you.
De Weerd: Second agrees?
Bird: Yes. Second agrees.
Corrie: Okay. That being stated in the motion, any further discussion? Hearing none,
roll-call vote, Mr. Berg.
Roll-Call: Bird, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Nary, aye.
Corrie: All ayes. Request for final plat is approved.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
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Item 19: Public Hearing: AZ 02-008
Request for annexation and zoning of 5
LDS Stake Center
acres from RUT to L-O zones for the proposed by
Lombard Conrad Architects – 2515 W. Ustick Road:
Corrie: Item No. 19 now. We'll get into the public hearings section. Does Council want
any recess before we start? Okay. We'll keep going then. Item No. 19 is a Public
Hearing, request for annexation and zoning of five acres from RUT to L-O zone for the
proposed LDS Stake Center by Lombard Conrad Architects, 2515 West Ustick Road. At
this time I will open the Public Hearing and have staff's comments first.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, this property on Ustick Road is surrounded on three
sides by residential development. The application for an L-O zone allows for an LDS
Stake Center to be built on the land. There would be no Conditional Use Permit required
for the stake center as proposed, but any other uses besides the LDS Stake Center
would require processing through a conditional use process. The property is
immediately south of what will become office lots in Bridgetower Crossing Subdivision
here and they will come in for a certificate of zoning compliance to make sure they
comply with our landscaping and other ordinances. Staff recommends approval of this
application for annexation and zoning with all staff and agency requirements.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I don't know if this question is for Shari or our attorney, but if it's designated
for single family housing residential on your Comprehensive Plan, would it not require a
Comprehensive Plan change if you change it to L-O?
Stiles: Do you have a copy of the staff's report on this that shows the Comprehensive
Plan policies? Actually, there aren't any proposed in this -- in this annexation and zoning
findings -- or the comments. It does have a staff analysis that's listed on pages two,
three, and four of the comments that does show what needs to be found by the Council
in order to approve an annexation and zoning. We have several churches within the
area of impact that have come in either under an L-O or come in under a residential
zone with a Conditional Use Permit, but we feel that the quasi-public nature of a church
facility to support the surrounding residential uses is a compatible use and we have
recommended approval of this church with an L-O zone, only with the condition that no
other uses will be allowed unless they have a Conditional Use Permit. So it will be
restricted to the church, unless it comes back before Council. Their other option would
be to come in with an R-8 zone and get a conditional use.
De Weerd: Why is a church a conditional use in residential?
Stiles: We have had -- well, that's in our zoning schedule of use control. Problems we
have had in the past are people operating churches out of their homes that are
disturbing to the adjacent residential uses.
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Corrie: Did that answer your question? Okay. Okay. Anything else? Staff? Anything
else? Okay. Okay. What we are going to be doing, this is a Public Hearing, we'll allow
five minutes for the applicant to give their comments and then we will go after the five
minutes is up to individual people talking, three minutes a piece, both for and against
and then any questions that come up for the applicant from the audience, their
testimony will have five minutes to answer those questions. So at this time I would like
to invite the applicant to come forward on this request for annexation and zoning of the
LDS Stake Center. Raise your right hand, please. Is the testimony you're about to give
the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Bennion: Yes.
Corrie: Name and address for the record, please.
Bennion: Mr. Mayor, my name is Brian Bennion with Lombard Conrad Architects, 1221
Shoreline Lane, Boise. We agree with all staff level and agency recommendations on
this annexation and rezone of this property.
Corrie: Okay. Thank you. We have one signed up for this. Brian -- that was him. I'm
sorry. Thank you. Anyone else from the public that would like to issue testimony on the
LDS Stake Center application? Okay. Hearing none, Council, any questions under the
open forum? Okay.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I guess I don't -- I understood what Mrs. Stiles stated about -- and I am seeing the
same thing in the staff report about the zone, but I guess I'm just a little concerned and
maybe that was Council Member de Weerd's concern as well in setting that precedent
of simply glossing over our Comprehensive Plan and annexing this inconsistent with the
plan with maybe not some finding that we have to have -- and, I don't know, I looked
through the plan briefly, but maybe Mr. Nichols can assist us here. Do we just need to
have some findings to simply change it without having a comp plan amendment or
something like that? Would that be adequate do you think?
Nichols: Councilman Nary, Mayor, and Members of the Council, the way the Idaho
Supreme Court has interpreted a comprehensive plan and its legal effect, it's intended
as a guide, but not a legally controlling document in the same way that the zoning
ordinance is and so at least as I read those decisions you can make a specific finding
that as recommended in the staff report, that there is no additional level of protection or
incompatibility of this particular use with those residential areas designated in a plan
and so reflected in the findings, so that you don't -- it's not required to have a full formal
map change and, again, maybe it's a matter of degree, but I think this particular one is
not so different in degree from what's allowed in residential neighborhoods compared to
something that might be a commercial business that's, you know, open from 7:00 until
11:00 at night seven days a week type thing.
Nary: Thank you.
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De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I guess I have a concern. As much public participation as we had in our
Comprehensive Plan, you know, that we would be doing this and I appreciate staff
trying to find eligible ways of approaching these kind of applications, but we all know in
the past church applications have been an issue with neighbors because of the height
of their buildings and it's not like a residential coming in, because they are higher than a
two story home or that kind of thing. So this is trying to supercede the Public Hearing
requirement for a Conditional Use Permit. But, you know, I guess I can see it both ways.
You know, we don't want set a precedence that our comp plan map is so easily
changed so that someone or -- differs from what it reflects, because we want to ease
the process, so they don't have to go through a Conditional Use Permit. I just am
uncertain as to the precedence that we are setting with this.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I guess one thing we can consider, this is approvable under the existing
Comprehensive Plan, the '93 plan, and we haven't -- we have orally approved the new
2002 plan, but we haven't implemented it yet and also the ordinances that are going to
be subsequent to that. Maybe this is an issue that we can address there, so that we
aren't -- because I agree with what you're saying. I don't want to start this trend simply
just for the ease and convenience of what makes sense and I agree with you that the
staff did a good job in finding something that makes a lot of sense to do, but it may not
always make a lot of sense to do and we may not have the reason to be able to deny it
in the future if we are not careful or at least consider that, but we can resolve that in the
new plan with the ordinances that need to follow that and maybe that will resolve that
issue with that, so --
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: We did do the same thing with -- to an L-O back in 1999 as stated here and that's
-- I was probably -- I guess I was the only one on here, but I agree with the Councilman
Nary, we have not adopted the new one. I like the idea of not having to go through a
Conditional Use Permit and I question on some of the churches if they are any higher
than some of the houses, so I would agree with the staff on this.
Corrie: All right. Thank you, Mr. Bird. Any other comments? Okay. No other comments, I
will entertain a motion to close the Public Hearing.
Bird: So moved.
De Weerd: Second.
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Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded to close the Public Hearing on the LDS
Stake Center request for annexation and zoning. Any other discussion? All those in
favor of the motion say aye. Opposed no. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: Discussion? Comments?
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I don't have a problem with this application and appreciate Councilman
Nary's comments. I would ask that staff make sure to address this as we move forward
with the new Comprehensive Plan and how we can best deal with items like this without
compromising our Comprehensive Plan or the intent of it. So with that I guess I will
make a motion to approve the request for annexation and zoning of five acres from RUT
to L-O zones for the proposed LDS Stake Center and ask the attorney to draw up the
Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision of Order and to include all staff
comments.
Bird: I will second.
Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded. Any further discussion?
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Just to ask if the maker of the motion and second would include that the Findings
of Fact reflected this change and that's consistent with our '99 finding with the previous
stake center and that it reflect the change as necessary for the Comprehensive Plan, so
it's clear that we did discuss it, did make that contemplated change, and did allow for
the particular type of use in this zone.
De Weerd: Good thing our stenographer is getting that comment. I would move that that
be adopted into my motion.
Bird: Second agrees.
De Weerd: I'm not going to repeat it, though.
Corrie: Okay. The adoption will be included in the motion. Any further discussion? Roll-
call vote, Mr. Berg.
Roll-Call: Bird, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Nary, aye.
Corrie: All ayes. Motion for annexation and zoning has been approved.
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Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Could we take a ten minute recess?
Corrie: You certainly may.
Bird: I would move that we do.
Corrie: All right. Then we will reconvene at 8:15 in the Public Hearing on Item No. 20.
(Recess.)
RECONVENED AT 8:20 P.M.
Item 20: Public Hearing: CUP 02-011
Request for a Conditional Use Permit for
a sports bar with pool tables and big screen TV’s in an O-T zone for
Blumacs Sports Bar
by Michael McGuinness – 706 East First Street (N.
Main Street):
Corrie: I will reconvene the recess back on the scheduled Public Hearing. This is -- Item
No. 20 is a Public Hearing, request for a Conditional Use Permit for a sports bar with
pool tables and big screen TVs in an O-T zone for Blumacs Sports Bar by Michael
McGuinness, 706 East First Street, North Main Street. So at this time I will open the
Public Hearing and I -- before I do, again, the same rules apply to this one. The
developer or the applicant will have five minutes and then each of the people that
signed up has three minutes and if you are signed up you still have a chance to testify
and then after the for and against are finished, then the applicant can answer any
questions for five minutes and then it will be the end. Okay. I will open the Public
Hearing, then, and request staff's comments first.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, this is for the property on Main Street in Meridian. It is
located adjacent to Harry's Bar and Grill. Across the street here is the Farmers and
Merchants Bank. There is the -- let's see. There is another bank here and then we have
the -- down on Idaho we have the Heritage Building. Generations Plaza would be just
north of this site plan. The old Intermountain Outdoor Sports that is currently being
housed, it has residents and offices. There is -- this is a parking lot behind the existing
building here. This is all really one building, all attached. They have -- oh. And the bank
is here, too. Then there is the Motown Bar and also across the street -- or across the
alley from Motown is the 127 Club. Thank you. The staff did not recommend approval of
this application due to complaints that we have already had about the existing bars in
the area. There is also -- we also didn't feel it met -- at least the staff's vision and we
hope the city's vision of what we would expect on the entryway into our city on this
entryway corridor. In the recommendation -- the Planning and Zoning Commission did
recommend approval of it. I didn't notice in the recommendations where they put a
restriction on the operation of the bar. I believe in the minutes of the meeting it indicated
that they couldn't open no earlier than 3:00 p.m. and that I don't see in the
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July 2, 2002
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recommendations. Staff is still not in favor of this application and would ask that you
listen to the testimony of the public in making your decision whether to approve this
application. That's all I have. Thanks.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Mrs. Stiles, on the staff report it indicates that the Idaho statute prohibits the retail
sale of liquor by the drink if it's within 300 feet of a church, unless it's approved by the
governing board.
Stiles: Yes.
Nary: Does it list any findings we need to find to do that?
Stiles: It doesn't.
Nary: Any criteria at all?
Stiles: It doesn't.
Nary: Do you know or did you have an opportunity to look -- I mean I'm going to assume
that the bar that's immediately next door is within 300 feet as well. Did you find in the
prior application for that bar if that was an issue was that discussed?
Stiles: That bar probably existed before I was born even. I don't know how long that's
been there. But it's been there for a long time. Used to be the War Eagle or -- what was
the -- Keith would know.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: That was originally Pat's Cafe and it become a bar in the late '70s, early '80s, I
believe, and went on. I'm sure they are 300 feet away from them. Their entrance door is
300 feet away from the church. Probably not the church property, but the building for the
church.
Corrie: Okay. Any other questions of staff at this point? All right. This is a Public Hearing
and we invite the applicant to start first. Is the applicant here this evening or their
representative? Raise your right hand, please. Is the testimony you're about to give the
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
McGuinness: Yes.
Corrie: Name and address for the record, please.
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McGuinness: Mr. Mayor, Council Members, my name is Mike McGuinness, 3872
Moscovy Way, Boise, Idaho. I would just like to say that as a businessman I'm not
lethargic in my demeanor. I take care of business. I'd like to open up an upscale place.
Go in and bring back the bar to some of its original likeness as to take up the carpet,
bring back the hardwood floors, put in some HD TV, make it a very upscale place, a
place that you would be proud of and my bartenders are quite inept at taking care of
business. We don't let people leave drunk. We don't serve people drunk. We are there
to be good a neighbor. I'm a family man and I respect everyone else. And I think that I
could coexist with the community. I'd like to add I have no intentions of putting a stage
in. I have no intentions of putting dancing girls in. That's the least of my thoughts. As far
as maybe an answer to that liquor license, I know that the restaurants, the Italian
restaurant across the street from the church, they put in a liquor license within the law
and they are within 300 feet of the church, certainly. So I mean it's been done before
and another issue seems to be the parking, but I have agreed not open until 3:00
o'clock and anytime after 6:00 o'clock it seems that there is plenty of parking there. I
believe it's the Smoky Mountain or the Rocky Mountain Pizza has opened up and the
occupancy in there is 100 and they don't have one parking space. But they seem to do
a good business and downtown seems to thrive. I don't see how a sports bar is going to
affect the community in a non-family oriented way. Edwards Theaters, the other
business up there, the next to the largest business in that complex is a sports bar and
they seem to coexists very well. There is no problems. There is probably more problems
with the kids than there is with the bar. And I'd like to open up a place that when you
walk in there you say, wow, this is what we have needed. It's going to be a fine place.
I'm going to spend some money if I'm permitted to go in there and I plan to take care of
business. I have been in compliance with the Meridian Comprehensive Plan. The P&Z
unanimously voted me in, but there were some concerns from the residents. I have a
couple letters here that I'd like to address on -- and that seems to be their issue also,
the girls, which I don't have any intention of putting girls in there. I own one and that's
plenty. I don't ever plan to own another one. And then another one with someone that's
a partial owner in one of the properties has complained about drunks passed out behind
the building, had to escort some of his personnel to their vehicles. Broken beer bottles.
Late night arguments. Indecent exposure. Public urination. Etc. etc. I put this application
in in March and I have been over here all the time day and night, different times,
different days. I have yet to see anyone passed out in the alley. I see very little litter. It
seems like the bar owners are taking care of business. Maybe at one time this was a
problem or maybe it's happened once, but I don't see that it happens on a regular basis.
And then he goes on -- I just think this individual is real naive and ill-informed about
opening up a restaurant. I don't plan to open up a restaurant. I have spoken with the
Mexican restaurant across the street and they have agreed to deliver. And on about
nudity, I don't -- you know, I have never owned a nude bar, don't care to. The only
dealings I have with nudity is taking a shower. But that's pretty much it. You know, I can
only do my utmost to make sure that I'm a good citizen and a good neighbor. I mean I
plan to police the area and I plan to go out there. I'm not an absentee owner. I go in, I
open up, I'm there to close every single night, unless I go on vacation, but 99 percent of
the time I'm there. I take care of business. Like I say, I want to be a good neighbor.
Thank you for your time, Mayor, City Council Members.
Corrie: Thank you. Okay. What we will do is we will start with those who are in favor of
the sports bar testifying first and then those who are against. So I have signed up two
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besides Mike. Dolores -- I'm sorry if I -- Lisby? Okay. Some of the names I can't quite
read, but yours I can. So thank you. Is the testimony you're about to give the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Lisby: Yes.
Corrie: Your name and address, please, for the record.
Lisby: My name is Dolores Lisby. I'm owner of said property. My address is 4240
Meadow Brook Drive, Meridian. Said property, number one, with the city ordinance is
Old Town. Number one, no nudity, no girls of such would be allowed. Period. Also I will
have written up by an attorney that no such thing -- that anything that would go against
the city's laws, nothing like would be allowed. He will be -- also put in my papers that he
will sign that he will keep the property clean, neat, hose down the front sidewalk if need
be, keep it clean at all times. Also with the parking lot that belongs -- that would belong
to him at that time, I own a parking lot that's in the back that holds 13 spaces. Right now
I have had difficulty leasing the place because of the other bars. It's just about to the
point that I'm not going to be able to lease this place unless it does go to a bar. The
parking spaces have been taken even though there are signs up there that it's private
parking for 706 East First. They are taken anyhow. I have not had anyone towed, just
because it is vacant. But it has been a problem, because everybody in town uses my
parking lot. Attorneys. Other bars. Other businesses. I have sat out there day and night
and watched who does go and where they go. I don't want anyone in there unless they
are going to be the very best. I've always been very particular about my places that I
lease and I will be there watching. Is there any questions?
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Mrs. Lisby -- and I don't know if you know this, maybe Mr. McGuinness. How
many employees or personnel are going to be working for that bar?
Lisby: I'm not sure. How many --
Corrie: We need to get it on the record.
McGuinness: Council Members, there will probably be one to two bartenders on at a
time. No more than that.
Nary: What I want to know is how many people on your staff, waitresses --
McGuinness: Total?
Nary: Yes. How many people are going to use those 13 parking spaces?
McGuinness: At one time?
Nary: Yes.
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McGuinness: Two.
Nary: You're only going to have two people running this bar at time of the day or night?
McGuinness: Uh-huh.
Nary: No waitresses?
McGuinness: Well, the two bartenders serve as a waitress. It's not that big of a place.
It's only -- it's probably only 2,000 square feet that's usable.
Nary: So you're not going to have any waitresses, you're going to have two bartenders,
and that's it?
McGuinness: They serve as waitresses.
Nary: So no manager on the site or is there parking for --
McGuinness: That's me.
Nary: So there is three of you?
McGuinness: I can park anywhere. I don't need to park in back. I'm not going to argue
over parking spaces if someone's parked there and using another facility. I don't find
that --
Nary: Under our ordinances we normally require that you provide adequate parking for
your staff, as well as patrons. In the minutes from the Planning and Zoning they only
discussed the parking spaces in relation to your patrons, not in relation to your staff as
well, so that's why I want to know. I understand you can park anywhere and it sounds to
me from what Mrs. Lisby said other people have parked there. But I don't care about
that. Our ordinance says we need to address it in relation to your staff and whether or
not it's adequate for the staff there, as well as the patrons of the place. So is three
people all that you're going to have on the staff at any one time?
McGuinness: The answer to your question, during the week, the week day, one
bartender. One bartender can handle it. On the weekends probably two and myself.
Nary: So two or three people generally at the most would be all you have and you have
no intention of hiring waitresses, at least at this point?
McGuinness: No.
Nary: Okay. Thank you.
McGuinness: Thank you.
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Lisby: Mayor Corrie and Council, the highway department has said that there will be a
maximum, but probably less than ten cars more than what we have there right now and
also the city police say that they'd rather have all the bars in one place anyhow,
because it's easier to take care of, so --
Corrie: Okay. Thank you. Don?
Don: No comment.
Corrie: Okay. Thank you, Don. Okay. Mike, you have already -- you're the applicant, so
-- all right. Anyone else on testimony in favor of the sports bar? Okay. Now we will start
for those against. Art. Are you here? Art? Is the testimony you're about to give the truth,
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Ortman: Yes.
Corrie: State you name and address, please.
Ortman: Art Ortman. I own one-third ownership in 720 North Main Street, which is the
old Intermountain Arms building, and I direct Sun America Securities, which is a
neighbor there. Does the City of Meridian desire a fourth bar within one within square
block in the downtown and the core of the old town? Per one property member and a
potential neighbor, I say no. For a number of reasons. First, from the economic reasons.
One of the Planning and Zoning members stated that there is an economic benefit to
have someone in place at this location and paying taxes. This is agreed. This, however,
does not consider some hidden costs. The National Institute for Alcohol Abuse and
Alcoholism in January 1901 -- 2001 stated: During the past two decades five major
studies have been estimated that the economic cost of alcohol abuse in the United
States during -- using the cost of illness approach, it concluded that in 1998 the overall
economic cost of alcohol abuse was 185 billion dollars per year, of which 18 percent of
those -- of this burden was born by the cities and the states that the bars are in. That
means Meridian, Idaho. The question really is can the City of Meridian afford a fourth
bar within one square block in the downtown area and in the core of the old town? From
a social reason standpoint, that same National Institution of Alcohol Abuse and
Alcoholism on April 2, '01, a review of 121 studies concluded that research has shown
that even low blood alcohol concentrations impairs driving skills and increases crash
risk. While for many states the blood alcohol concentration, BAC, is .10, it is considered
-- that is considered enabled to drive safely, the United States is the only industrial
nation to have a BAC limit this high. A large variety of research over many years has
already shown that impairment of tasks necessary to drive safely begins at level as low
as .05. What is the city saying to the general public if it allows a fourth bar within a one
square block in the downtown and the core of old town? What's the increased risk that
we are putting our town into by adding a fourth bar? That same national institution
stated that -- that basically 29 percent of male drivers involved in fatal motor vehicle
crashes had a BAC of .01 percent or greater. Basically, a fourth bar means greater risk
in our community. Is it worth the risk?
Corrie: Thank you. Appreciate it.
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Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Art, we have a question. Council has a question. Mr. Nary.
Nary: Mr. Ortman, just so I understand what you're saying, I mean they can put a fourth
bar somewhere else. I guess I'm not sure -- I'm not clear on your argument that why
having it on the same block would be any different than having it in a different location.
Or why that's any different than the stores that sell alcohol or the state liquor store or
anywhere else, based on what you have stated. I guess I'm not clear on --
Ortman: Well, there were a number of other things that I was -- time wouldn't allow me
to address. But the concept of a fourth bar in a central area to me says a lot about the
community and the people coming into the community and what we are inviting to come
into the community. Just one extra bar means one extra measure of risk that the
community assumes through a loss of income through extra taxes, but through also a
risk hazard that's affected.
Nary: Thank you.
Corrie: Linda Rupe. Is the testimony you're about to give the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Rupe: Yes, it is.
Corrie: Name and address for the record, please.
Rupe: Linda Rupe. 1422 North Rutledge, Meridian, Idaho. May I give a handout to the
members?
Nary: Sure.
Rupe: Thank you. Mr. Mayor and Council, in the interest of time I'm basically going to
read what I have prepared here, so that I could get through it quickly and not get
sidetracked. I am the owner of Water and Wood and I am the president of the Meridian
Merchant's Association and I am here tonight speaking basically on behalf of the
Meridian Merchant's Association. I'm also a member of the board of directors for the
Meridian Development Corporation, but I am not necessarily speaking on behalf of
them. The first thing that I would like to address is the parking problems According to
Fire Marshall Joe Silva, occupancy of a retail restaurant-bar type building is one person
per 15 square feet. The main floor of the building at 706 Main where Blumacs is
proposed is 2,400 square feet. According to the fire marshall's formula the occupancy
for that building, assuming that they are only using the main floor and not the basement,
is 160 people. At half capacity that would be 80 people in the bar. Assuming that there
are two people per car, because rarely does a carload of six people show up to a bar,
it's usually one, two, maybe three people in a car. Assuming two people per car, that's
40 cars that are looking for parking with the only 12 spaces available -- and there are
only 12 spaces available, that's 28 cars that are still needing parking. At full capacity,
which is very possible for a Friday and Saturday night or maybe a Monday night during
football season, the numbers are significantly higher. We are looking at 160 people. At
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two people per car, that's 80 cars using that building, with 12 spaces supplied, that
leaves 68 cars in need of parking. The parking in downtown is already stretched to
capacity and a business that brings in as many cars as a bar would not be conducive to
the area. Until some parking garages are built in the area, a busy bar would create even
more difficulty for the businesses that are already existing in the downtown area. In
addition to the parking problems, I feel that another bar on the same block would create
an over-saturation of bars in that area. There are already problems in the area with
businesses finding litter, vomit, and vandalism as they arrive to work in the morning.
Another bar in the same area will surely increase the likelihood of those incidents. The
bars that are currently on that block are bars that do not allow family accessibility. They
are basically over 21 type bars, which is not, again, conducive to the family atmosphere
that we are hoping for the downtown Meridian area. Allowing another bar in that area
would surely decrease the ability to attract and anchor business to the downtown area if
it were saturated with this type of bars. In addition, I feel that Blumacs, even though they
are not going to have bikini dancing, is likely to attract the same type of clientele with
the same expectations as their Boise location, simply because of the name that they are
using, which is not what we want to for downtown Meridian. After examining the code
that defines adult entertainment, I see that it is quite liberal, that waitresses could be
very scantily clad and still be within code. Once this business is open it would be very
difficult to shut it down for overstepping the adult entertainment line, simply because the
code is so liberal. Attached I have included that code and I hope that you will take a look
at Chapter 10, Section 3-10-1, Paragraph C. It is very informative.
Corrie: Your three minutes are up.
Rupe: All right.
Corrie: Thank you for your --
Rupe: Thank you. I hope that Council will deny this application. Thank you.
Corrie: Thank you.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Linda, we have a question for you. It's not on your three --
Rupe: Oh, I'm sorry. Certainly.
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Ms. Rupe, if this was -- tell me how this would be different if this was Red Lobster
or this was a very popular restaurant that was going to bring in a hundred people a
night? What is the difference?
Rupe: I believe that a business of that type would be more conducive to the family
atmosphere that we are hoping for for the downtown Meridian area. We would like to
have a pedestrian friendly area where families come down and enjoy the downtown
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area and I don't believe that this type of a business would be conducive to that
atmosphere.
Nary: Thank you.
Corrie: Any questions?
Rupe: Any other questions? Thank you.
Corrie: Thank you. Terry Smith. Is the testimony you're about to give the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Smith: Yes.
Corrie: Name and address, please, for the record.
Smith: My name is Terry P. Smith, 713 East Kingsford Drive, Meridian. I am testifying as
a citizen and not representing any organization or employer. Like so many Meridian
citizens I care a lot about the future of the community and of downtown. That's why I
have served as chairman of several downtown projects. I support both new and existing
businesses of all types in downtown, wanting all empty buildings and lease spaces filed
with thriving, successful enterprises. I do feel, however, that this application presents
real concerns pertaining to parking, same type of business saturation, community
image, and a negative impact on the adjoining property owners. The following comment
should not be considered criticism of the existing businesses, nor of the applicant or the
property owner. I have not met either. I recognize that club owners don't have control of
their patrons activities after leaving their establishments, but the circumstances I will
describe are conditions that occur when there is a saturation of certain types of
businesses in one area. During my 24 years of working in this block, the patrons of
nearby entertainment beverage clubs have created the following challenges. Number
one. Since downtown parking is limited, the parking lots of neighboring businesses are
filled with patrons. Number two. A high volume of litter trash is left in the streets and
close by parking lots beer bottles, shot glasses, broken glass, vomit, drug
paraphernalia, sex paraphernalia and so on. It is necessary for business owners and
their employees to pick up this litter each weekday day morning. Repair and
replacement of vandalized property is an expense to other businesses. Property
owner's -- shrubs pulled up by the roots, tree limbs broken, glass doors broken one
time. Windows broken out. Destruction of parking lot signs. Number four. Abandoned
vehicles have been removed from nearby businesses before being able to conduct
business on weekday mornings. Number five. The image of downtown is damaged with
the concentration of certain types of businesses. Number six. Inappropriate actions by
patrons, such as public urination and sexual acts occurring on neighboring business
properties. Because of the saturation of this type of business in the area and my other
concerns, I ask the City Council to deny this application.
Corrie: Thank you. Any questions from staff? Excuse me. From Council. Okay. We have
Fred. Is the testimony you're about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
truth, so help you God?
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Knehans: Yes, it is.
Corrie: Name and address for the record.
Knehans: My name is Fred Knehans. I live at 3994 Sharonham Drive in Boise, Idaho. I
am here representing Farmers and Merchants State Bank. Farmer and Merchants State
Bank is requesting your denial of the Conditional Use Permit for the Blumacs Sports Bar
at 706 East First Street, Meridian. Some of our primary reasons and concerns is the
limited parking space available for the establishment, the number of patrons, the
overflow parking that is going to overflow into our parking lots. We don't feel that it is
appropriate, whether it is our establishment or another business establishment in
downtown Meridian, I realize that they put in -- and we realize there is restrictions on the
time in which they can be open, but it's still going to be put a burden on the other
businesses to help provide parking after our business is shut down. We have to
maintain those parking facilities, we are going to have to be the ones that come in at
7:00, 7:30 in the morning and clean up the garbage left behind in the parking lots and it
does happen. There are a number of occasions, even with the existing establishments
that are in this core area, that we get complaints from people trying to use our night
drop where cars are parked in the drive-up lanes and blocked to where people can't get
to our night drop. On the way over here tonight there were a couple of cars parked in
one of our drive-up lanes that were across the street of one of the other establishments.
This goes on and on and on. I don't care whether it is this establishment, a Red Lobster,
or whatever, I think if a business is going to come in it has to meet the parking
requirements imposed by the city ordinances and if they are going to have enough
patrons there that there are some 20 to 60 cars that they are parking spaces short, they
need to come up with some alternatives for places for their patrons to park, other than in
other business's parking facilities. Thank you, Mr. Mayor and Members of the Council.
Are there any questions?
Corrie: Okay. Thank you. Is there anyone else who would like to issue testimony here
tonight? Okay. Council, any questions on the Public Hearing that you would like to --
okay. The applicant has five minutes to reply to some of the questions and concerns
they have.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Before Mr. McGuinness starts I did have I guess two questions. One, it seems to
me it's clear from the staff comments and from the discussions at the Planning and
Zoning level that the parking is compliant with the city code; is that right, Mrs. Stiles?
The parking amount that's available for this business is compliant with what the code
requires?
Stiles: The code requires one for 200 and they do have one per 200 if they don't use the
other level.
Nary: And one for 200 square feet, that includes patrons, as well as staff?
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Stiles: Yes.
Nary: But if it's a 2,400 square foot place, they need 12 spaces and he has two staff
there, they're short one, aren't they?
Stiles: They have 13 spaces.
Nary: Right. They have to have 12 spaces for 2,400 square feet, so it doesn't matter if
they have two or three staff people on, that leaves only nine spaces for patrons, that's
okay?
Stiles: I don't believe it addresses the employees at all.
Nary: It just says 12 total -- 12 for the 2,400.
Stiles: One for 200.
Nary: Okay. And I don't know if Chief Worley can answer this. I did see a comment in
here from the Planning and Zoning Commission and discussion that it is the police -- I
guess opinion that having an extra bar on that block is not a service issue problem. And
maybe, Chief, if you could address -- downtown Boise at 6th and Main gets a whole lot
of press and they have a whole lot of bars on one block and I wonder -- I guess the
comment was that it concentrates in one place, but we really don't have bars all
concentrated in place anyway, so I wasn't clear about why that was the comment.
Worley: Mr. Mayor and Members of the Council, Mr. Nary, just from a patrol standpoint,
there is some advantage to not having people getting in cars driving, to have some
concentration of that type of business in one place and certainly it does generate its
own kind of problems as Boise has seen from 6th and Main. I guess to address some of
the specific problems, I'd like to either turn the time over now or at the Council and
Mayor's pleasure to Sergeant Steve Bradley, who has worked night shift for quite
sometime actually dealing with any problems that we have in that area.
Nary: And maybe now, that way Mr. McGuinness can have some time to rebut that as
well if he has some response to that. That might be the easiest way to go.
Corrie: Why don't we -- Mike, let's let him talk and then you can rebut that.
Worley: Okay. Sergeant Bradley.
Corrie: Let the record show that all the staff is automatically sworn in to tell the truth, so
your job depends on it, so --
Bradley: I do a lot of that.
Corrie: Thank you.
Bradley: As far as the area that we are talking about, because of the concentration of
the bars in that one area, we do give extra patrol on -- generally starting Thursday night
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through Sunday night. We do encounter all of the problems that Mr. Smith alluded to
and the gentleman from the bank. All of that information is accurate. Generally
speaking, we are able to get in and stop problems quicker and keep things smaller in
nature and that's why we don't have the press that 6th and Main has. We don't allow the
large gatherings to get going and get people fired up before we are in there to break it
up. We have problems in other bars and other parts of the city. I do believe that if this is
granted we are probably going to see an increase for calls down in there. That's just the
way it is. They are going to have one more place that they can go to if they get kicked
out of the 127 Club, they can walk down the alley and go to Harry's, if they get kicked
out of Harry's, they are going to have the Blumacs to go to. So it's going to generate
more problems for the police, but at the same time we are going to be able to jump on it
maybe a little quicker than if it was, you know, out on the west side of town somewhere.
Did that help?
Nary: Thank you.
Corrie: Thank you. Any other questions? All right. Thank you very much.
Corrie: Okay. Mike.
McGuinness: I'd just like to comment that there were seven liquor licenses given out this
year in Meridian. So Meridian is growing and you have to grow with the times and I
mean it's not -- the population of Meridian is no longer 6,000, it's 35,000 and in ten
years it will be over 50,000 and with growth you have problems and I don't intend to be
a problem. I want to be a good neighbor. I want to come in there and run a good place. I
want to have a place where when you walk in there you say, wow, this is what we need.
The sports enthusiast will love this place, I guarantee it. It's a place I want to open and I
want to do a good job of it. That's all I have. Thank you for your time, Mayor and City
Council Members
Corrie: Thank you. Council, any other questions on the Public Hearing? Okay. Hearing
none, I will entertain a motion to the close the Public Hearing.
McCandless: So moved.
Nary: Second.
Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded to close the Public Hearing on the request
for a Conditional Use Permit for Blumacs Sports Bar. Any further discussion? All those
in favor of the motion say aye. Opposed no. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: Staff comments, discussion? Or excuse me. Council.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
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Bird: I have heard people say that a restaurant and bar parkingwise is about the same. I
disagree to the fact that usually a restaurant likes to move the people in and out in an
hour, hour and a half. Very rarely when you go to a bar you're going to be there that
short of a time. You're usually there for the evening. So there is a difference there.
You're moving parking and also I don't know too many restaurants that people get drunk
and unruly. I think that we got a real problem with parking downtown. I understand
where the owners of these lots are coming from, have to pick up the mess after people
have spent the night in any bar. I also agree with Linda that -- that the ordinance -- or
the adult entertainment, Chapter 10, can be -- is pretty liberal and could be taken to
mean a lot of different ways and you can start out as a sports bar, if it's not successful,
then you start looking for things to get the public in there and stuff, so I have a real
problem passing on this.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I guess I will throw in my two cents worth. This is a conditional use and in
Old Town we kind of look for the conditional use so that you look at the fit and you're not
looking at minimum requirements, you're trying to see how it will all fit together with a
vision and how you would like your community to grow and I think it first started with
Generations Plaza and the vision of creating a community that's pedestrian friendly,
that's family oriented, and that is a nitch and there is a place for drinking establishments.
I do believe that there would be a saturation and certainly minimally they are meeting
our minimum parking requirements, but when you seek a Conditional Use Permit, that
doesn't mean you -- the minimum is the only thing you look at and we do have a parking
issue downtown. You shouldn't rely on the establishments to not only clean up after
your patrons, but to form partnerships to work in a cooperative nature. I agree, too, with
the idea of the image and what kind of statement we are making by having four bars in
one square block. That would be a concern to me. And I guess with the 300 feet of a
church, the Idaho state code I believe rarely states that you need to state a compelling
reason to allow this kind of an establishment and I just haven't heard that tonight. There
is no compelling reason to add a fourth bar in that area and I don't know what it would
accomplish. I do have concern with the vacancy and I think that as we move forward,
Generations Plaza has stimulated some economic growth, it has stimulated interest in
our Old Town area and hopefully those vacancies will start filling as people buy into the
vision of what is it you're trying to do in your Old Town area.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: In reading the minutes of the Planning and Zoning Commission and Mr.
McGuinness did cite that as another reason to approve this, but in reading the
comments from the Commissioners, they were troubled, as it appears that we are here
as well, and, in fact, there was a comment here of wanting to forward it without any
recommendation at all and they are realizing that they really can't do that and they
would have to make one, but they had the same concerns, but they recognize that the
issue about the church was not theirs to make, it was ours. I would agree with
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Councilwoman de Weerd that I am concerned that we have no real finding as to why we
would allow a single use bar only. I understand the differences between a restaurant
and a bar and I don't see that. I do see that with Piasano's, if that's what the discussion
was. I would see that with Smoky Mountain Pizza if that was the discussion. I wasn't
here then. But I am here now and I don't see any reason to have a single use bar. If this
was a food establishment with a bar as a portion of it, it would be less concerning to me.
I understand the public's concern because of the name of this place, but the nature of
the patrons of this bar is not the issue, the issue is that that's all it is. It's just a bar. It
doesn't have food, it has a delivery service for food. That's not food. If it's not available
it's not going to be used. And I don't think that's really an appropriate use for this area. I
think it is incompatible with -- I think the parking is a problem. It's not only this building's
problem, it is a problem there for all of us, but it doesn't mean that we need to ignore the
problem and simply say, well, it's already a problem, let's leave it go. I don't think that's
the right way to do this. I can't find any compelling reason to allow a bar within 300 feet
of a church, that's two religious places that are near this, I don't find any compelling
reason that this is compatible with the neighbors just because there is other bars. I am
concerned about having four bars in one block. I think it's a problem that we are going to
have a year from now when somebody else wants to buy that -- one of those buildings
to put another bar in there. I think at some point we have to say we don't want that. We
want something that's more compatible with a restaurant bar type of atmosphere and
not just a bar. That's all this is. It sounds like a very nice bar and if it was in a different
spot maybe it would be different, but where it's at and what it is doesn't appear
compatible to me under our ordinance and it doesn't appear to have any compelling
reason to ignore the state statutes.
McCandless: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. McCandless.
McCandless: I agree with nearly everything that's been said here, particularly when Mr.
Bird was talking about the difference between bars and restaurants. There have been a
number of liquor licenses given out for Meridian, but most of them have been eating
establishments and they don't, like Mr. Bird said, go in there and spend the evening,
they go in there for an hour, hour and a half and have dinner and leave and so it's quite
different and I, too, don't see the reason for bars -- four of them in one square block. I
just don't see it. I don't see the image that it would give our community and I, for one,
will also vote against it.
Corrie: Okay. That being said, I will entertain a motion on the request for a Conditional
Use Permit for a sports bar by Blumacs Sports Bar by Michael McGuinness.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would move that we have the attorney draw up the Findings of Facts and
Conclusions of Law and Decision and Order on the Conditional Use Permit for a sports
bar in an O-T zone for Blumacs Sports Bar by Michael McGuinness in denial.
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De Weerd: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded for denial of the request for
Conditional Use Permit on Blumacs Sports Bar. Any further comments?
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I was just going to ask for -- if we could -- to assist Mr. Nichols in that, that we
clarify that we found no reason to overlook the state statute or grant that in light of the
state statute that prohibits bars within 300 feet of churches and that we also under our
own ordinance can't find any compatibility under the conditional use requirements for
Meridian City Code 11-17-3 Subsection -- Subsection D regarding past service existing
in future neighboring uses -- I don't know if there is anything else Councilman Bird
would like, at least --
Bird: I would agree to that, Mr. Nary.
De Weerd: Second concurs.
Corrie: Second agrees as well.
Bird: Motion maker agrees.
Corrie: Okay. Any further discussion? Okay. Roll-call vote, Mr. Berg.
Roll-Call: Bird, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Nary, aye.
Corrie: All ayes. Motion to deny is approved.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 21: Public Hearing: CUP 02-015
Request for a Conditional Use Permit to
renovate existing office and Convention Center into a private Jr./ Sr. High
Cole Valley Christian Church
School for by Jeffrey L. King – 200 East
Carlton Avenue:
Corrie: Item No. 21 is a Public Hearing. This is a request for a Conditional Use Permit to
renovate an existing office and convention center into a private junior/senior high school
for Cole Valley Christian Church by Jeffrey L. King, 200 East Carlton Avenue. At this
time I will open the Public Hearing on the request for a Conditional Use Permit and have
staff's comments first.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, this is for the property that currently houses the Meridian
Office and Convention Center. There exists the office building here, the Apostolic
Church is adjacent to the office building in this location. They have -- in the back area
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mostly is a parking area at this time. There are also some old -- I believe they were bus
barns of some type that the owners of the property had made some improvements to,
but were not allowed to occupy.
Corrie: Shari, sorry to interrupt you, but Mrs. de Weerd had a question.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor, I just wanted to ask the Council to vote on whether I could
participate in this. I do attend Cole Community Church and so I just wanted to make
sure that was out on the table and have you make a ruling if I can participate.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Other than your attendance, you don't receive any other benefit, you don't attend
the school, I take it?
De Weerd: I might need to, but --
Bird: I see no problem with it.
Nary: I have no objection.
Corrie: Mrs. McCandless.
McCandless: No.
De Weerd: Thank you. I just wanted to make sure that --
Corrie: Okay. You may proceed, Shari. Thank you.
Shari: The church is proposing to turn the building into a combination junior/senior high
school. Part of the office use will remain until they have settled whatever leases that
remain on the project. In the future they would like to build a gymnasium in the back
portion, the northerly portion of the property currently where the old bus barns or
storage sheds were. They would remove those buildings. They would improve the site
with landscaping and a sidewalk along East 2 1/2 Street. I'd just like to mention a couple
of the recommendations in the -- what the Planning and Zoning Commission had. The
applicant has submitted some documentation on the parking spaces that are required.
Their calculations show that they would need to have 160 spaces and they currently are
providing 159 spaces. They are working on the cross-access agreement -- cross-
parking agreement with the Apostolic Church and I believe members of that -- the
pastor from that church is here tonight and may be able to testify on whether that
agreement will be approved. On page two of the recommendations, under two I'm not
sure from the information that I have seen whether any signage was presented and
perhaps they could elaborate on that during the Public Hearing. Under item three, line
two should be changed to read: An additional 33 possibly available -- add possibly
between 33 and available, depending on what is found tonight. The sentence in bold --
the first sentence in bold under Item three, I would ask that that be changed to read:
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Applicant must obtain a variance prior to applying for a certificate of zoning compliance
for the gym. Applicant's failure to obtain a variance will result in down-sizing or
elimination of the gym. And the applicant is aware that they -- in order to provide -- have
that additional building, they would not be able to meet the parking requirements. We
have also discussed possible restriction on functions in the two buildings, so that there
wasn't a major function going on in the classroom areas, in the auditorium, and the gym
at the same time, so that they would be able to provide enough parking for the function.
Also, the applicant's letter dated June 26, 2002, from Mr. Jerry Van Engen or Thornton,
Oliver, Keller, in the calculations they have proposed for the office in the high school
and senior high school and the auditorium, I would ask that those specific numbers not
be included in the findings, so that will give them the opportunity to modify space within
the building as they see fit. They may turn larger classrooms into two classrooms or
something like that. I just hate to get down to specifics like that in the findings, because
it makes it very different for staff to not make them go back through a conditional use
process. So if it could just state that the application is approved for a junior and senior
high school with an auditorium and that staff will monitor the parking requirements to
insure that they comply with the ordinance. On item six, page three, just a little
background on the pressurized irrigation system. I'm not sure what's there could be
considered a pressurized irrigation system. It had not functioned very well in the past. I
don't know if they got that working or not. It was not really a pressurized irrigation
system, it was a bubbler system, I think the applicant is aware of that, and will need
modification. Also during the initial approval of the Meridian Office and Convention
Center, the -- I believe they are plum trees that are located around the perimeter of the
site. The applicant at that time had assured us that the trees would be sprayed on a
yearly basis to prevent the production of fruit. That has never been done and every
spring and summer there is an unsightly mess and I believe a safety hazard from the
falling fruit and also the children walking home from school enjoy throwing those at the
building and windows. So we'd ask that they, please, make sure that that fruit
production is put to an end. Under eight, the handicapped parking, I'm not sure whether
the applicant's architect is here tonight just to verify they meet the requirements of the
Americans with Disabilities Act. This would also be met simply by his stamping of the
proposed plans, because as an architect he is signifying by that stamp that the property
or the plans are in compliance with all applicable codes. Here are the elevations of the
building they are proposing. I believe this is the new gym. Showing the existing building.
With the requested changes and clarification by the applicant, we would ask that this
application be approved with the amendments stated and with all other staff and agency
requirements. Thank you.
Corrie: Thank you, Shari. Any Council questions?
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Mrs. Stiles, in looking at the recommendations from the Planning and Zoning
Commission, I notice that there was statements, there is some bolded and some --
there are some that are bolded and italicized. Why is that? Are those -- which is the -- is
that clarifying what the Planning and Zoning Commission was trying to say or is that
something different than what they intended? I mean I just didn't know.
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Stiles: I'm sorry, I couldn't answer that. I don't know if Bill knows.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, sometimes items are bolded in a
recommendation in order to highlight things that have to be addressed at the Council
level. For example, in item number one on the trash enclosure it highlights that there
has to be some agreement about the dimensions on the trash enclosures, which
apparently was not done at the Planning Commission level and in item three it
references the issue with regard to the parking spaces. I don't know why -- the bolding
on the end of item three may relate to the applicant needs to address that cross-parking
agreement. Down in item nine it asks for a revised elevation plan and so -- and, again,
that comes out of the discussion at the Planning Commission level with regard to the --
as I read the minutes, the plainness of the building as it -- its apparent construction. So I
believe, Councilman Nary, Members of the Council, that it's intended by those bolded
portions to try to highlight things that need to be considered or addressed at the Council
level.
Nary: Thank you.
De Weerd: That's appreciated.
Corrie: Okay. Any other questions? Okay. Is the applicant here? We need to start with
the applicant this evening.
King: Jeffrey King.
Corrie: Give your address and then --
King: CTA Architects Engineers, 1185 Grove Street, Boise.
Corrie: Is the testimony you're about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
the truth, so help you God?
King: So help me, God.
Corrie: Thank you.
King: As far as a lot of these issues, the bolding that you're seeing was actually from the
Planning and Zoning meeting. We have actually addressed 90 percent of these issues
and we resubmitted to Planning and Zoning. For example, on the trash enclosure we
did submit a revised site plan and the building elevations that showed that proposed
trash enclosure. The signage -- the intent is to utilize the existing monument sign. If you
-- yeah. In the lower right-hand corner -- go back. There is an existing monument sign
right on the corner, that would be the southeast -- or the southwest corner of the
property. The school would utilize that existing monument sign. As far as the parking
goes, as indicated at this point in time when the school moves into the building it will be
adequate parking for the school. It's only when we get into construction on the
gymnasium that we run into some problems with the parking. The intent would be at the
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time or prior to construction of the gymnasium that issue would be addressed. I think
that's everything.
Corrie: Okay.
King: Also here is Jerry Van Engen and he can also address a little bit on the parking.
Corrie: Is the testimony you're about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
the truth, so help you God?
Van Engen: It is.
Corrie: Name and address for the record.
Van Engen: My name is Jerry Van Engen. I'm with Thornton, Oliver, Keller Commercial.
I'm the agent for the buyer in this transaction and my address is 250 South 5th Street in
Boise. I wrote Mayor Corrie and the Council a letter in conjunction with Steve Siddoway
at Planning and Zoning, because we would have a hard time accepting the initial
language of the findings of Planning and Zoning as far as parking, because it stated that
we needed to apply for a variance at this time in order to get the conditional use
approval. Since then we have coordinated with Planning and Zoning to change the
wording, so that they are agreeable to the idea of us addressing the parking variance
when it's needed. The reason I'd like to talk to you a little bit more about that is because
parking is such a hot issue for one thing, especially downtown. The other thing is is that
initially, as my letter states, we are requiring 160 parking spaces and that includes the
parking required for three tenants, which we intend to keep for the near term future.
Alliance Title occupies about 8,000 square feet, DMV has a couple thousand feet and
Sweetwater Community Church has a couple thousand feet. We'd like to keep those
tenants and over time, as those leases come up, we hope to grow into that space.
Because of that, the numbers of parking required is kind of a moving target, because
office requires one for 400 -- one parking space for 400 square feet. A junior high is
required two per classroom and senior highs require ten per classroom. So what
parking requirement we are going to need in two years when we kick DMV out and take
that room over and make it into two junior high classrooms and one senior high
classroom or some other combination will have to be dealt with at that time. It would be
very difficult for us or anybody else to forecast that. Because of that Shari Stiles has
agreed that it's probably better to look at those parking issues with CVC at the time of
requirement, as opposed to doing it now and that's why we are requesting the change in
the item number three.
Corrie: Okay. Questions? Thank you. Okay. Thank you. We have a few people that are
testifying or at least they are signed up that they were for this. Art Ortman. Give your --
you have already testified. You're okay. Name and address, please.
Ortman: Yes. Art Ortman, Sun America Securities, 720 East Main Street -- North Main
Street here in Meridian. Just one comment, since I was so negative from the other
standpoint. I know these people, because I am the financial advisor for the school in
terms of retirement planning for each of the teachers and the staff, as well as the
church, and in comparison with what's potentially being brought into our community, this
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is the highest standard in terms of quality people and it will be a privilege for Meridian to
have them and their -- have them come into play here, not only for the teachers, as well
as for the administration, but also for the parents. Highest of quality people.
Corrie: Okay. Thank you. John Mascroft?
Mascroft: John Mascroft. Pastor of Apostolic Church, 1153 East 2 1/2 Street.
Corrie: Thank you. Is the testimony you're about to give the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mascroft: Yes. Just going back and looking at a couple things. We are trying to work
some things out as far as parking issues, things like that. I think one of the concerns we
do have as a church there would be -- one of the issues would be if they do later on say,
for example, go for the -- they will need parking for the gymnasium. We would be very
much concerned about the liability of them crossing our property with the children going
across and busses going across, unless a cross-access agreement parking was all
taken care of. Possibly parking on our lot all the time also. These things can be worked
out, but I don't -- I did want you to be aware of the liability aspect and things like that.
And it's also something that would have to be approved by the church membership.
Corrie: Thank you. George? Okay. Rod Riedinger? Is the testimony you're about to give
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Riedinger: Yes, it is.
Corrie: Name and address for the record, please.
Riedinger: My name is Rod Riedinger, 680 West Applegate here in Meridian. Is that it?
I'm part of that church. I have been a part of it for nine years. I'm excited about it and I
would rather see a church group of people come in, rather than a bar. I'm for it.
Corrie: All right. Thank you. Mark Wood. Is the testimony you're about to give the truth,
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Wood: So help me God.
Corrie: Thank you.
Wood: I'm Mark Wood, 3537 North Cole Road, Boise, Idaho. Superintendent Cole
Valley Christian Schools and pastor of Cole Community Church. I'm catching my breath,
because the last time I raised my hand like that I ended up in San Antonio, Texas, in
boot camp. You look a lot better than my DI did.
Corrie: Thank you.
Wood: Obviously, I support moving in the high school in Meridian for lots of reasons. It's
a positive for us, because of the community of Meridian, the closeness to the interstate,
the fact that it was a school, it's part of the historic district, we really look forward to that.
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I have met twice -- three times already with John and some of his elders and the
secretary. We truly also want the cross-parking, cross-access agreement. We do want
to be good neighbors. We have never been a landlord before, so we are working with
your church, with our elder staff and administrators, and also with the management
company that's currently in the building for the transition for those companies there is
almost seamless and we can have the school, they can have the business and we all
just get along. Thank you.
Corrie: Thank you. All right. The next one is Casey Smith or Cassie?
C.Smith: Cassie Jones.
Corrie: I'm sorry. All right. Sorry, Ms. Jones. Byron Smith?
B.Smith: No comment.
Corrie: Is there anyone else that would like to issue testimony? All right. Council -- you
can have a rebuttal, but there isn't any against it and I didn't see anybody here, so,
Council, any questions from the Public Hearing people? Okay. Then I will entertain a
motion to close the Public Hearing at this point.
Bird: So moved.
McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded to close the Public Hearing on Item 21.
All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: Discussion? Okay. No further discussion? I will entertain a motion on the
request.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we approve the Conditional Use Permit to renovate an existing office
and convention center into a private junior/senior high school for Cole Valley Christian
Church by Jeffrey L King, 200 East Carlton Avenue, Meridian, Idaho, and for the
attorney to draw up Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision of Order
and include all staff comments as noted with the recommendations.
Nary: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded to approve the request for
Conditional Use Permit. Is there any further discussion?
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
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Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Now I haven't lived here as long as Mr. Bird, but I do think it would be nice to see
that used as a school again.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I agree with it. The only thing I -- the only thing I'm sorry is that back in '87 or '88 or
'86, whenever they condemned it, the city didn't buy it for city hall.
Corrie: Any further comment?
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I think we do need to amend Item No. 3 on page two of the findings to reflect
the conversation about parking and add the appropriate language that it would require
possibly an additional 33 units from --
Bird: It's in the staff comments.
De Weerd: And that it be timed by the renovation or the addition of the gym, rather than
now.
Nary: I would concur.
Bird: Motion maker --
Corrie: All right.
Bird: -- agrees.
Corrie: Okay. Any further discussion? Hearing none, roll-call vote, Mr. Clerk.
Roll-Call: Bird, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Nary, aye.
Corrie: All ayes. Motion for request for Conditional Use Permit is approved.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 22: Public Hearing: VAR 02-008
Request for a Variance to add one
additional sign on a large medical clinic and radiology center building by
Imaging Center Radiologists
-- 2929 East Magic View Drive:
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Corrie: The last item on the agenda is a Public Hearing for a request for a variance to
add one additional sign on a large medical clinic and radiology center building by
Imaging Center Radiologists, 2929 East Magic View Drive. At this time I will open the
Public Hearing and ask for staff comments first.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, this property is located out on East Magic View Drive,
this particular land doesn't show the whole property. It would be, actually, extending all
the way to Magic View Drive. The existing building currently has a sign on the east face
of the building. The applicant is requesting an additional wall sign on the southern end
of the east face to accommodate people coming to their offices from -- on South Allen
Street, so they can more easily be routed to the building. Staff could not find reason for
granting the variance. There are many different alternatives that they could pursue to
meet the ordinance requirements. The sign that's existing here on the east side on the
northern portion of the building can be relocated to the north side of the building, which
would allow them to have the wall sign on this end of the building. There is -- in the sign
ordinance it does restrict them to one wall sign. Also they have available to them the
option of a freestanding sign both on Magic View Drive and on Allen Street that will
allow visibility from both directions. Also they would be allowed per the sign ordinance to
install directional signage on their property that would also guide vehicles and people
back to their development. For those reasons, the fact that they can meet the sign
ordinance and that there didn't appear to be any hardship, staff recommends denial of
this application. Thank you.
Corrie: Okay. Questions from Council?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Okay. Is the applicant here this evening? It's a Public Hearing and they will be
first. Is the testimony you're about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
truth, so help you God?
Keeble: Yes. I swear.
Corrie: Name and address, please, for the record.
Keeble: Jason Keeble. I'm with Cook Design studio in Boise and I'm here on behalf of
Intermountain Medical Imaging to try to get approval for this variance that's on the sign.
Right now you have a -- we have a sign on the northeast elevation of this building. You
can only see that from coming down Allen Street and Meadow View at that corner. We
would like to establish another sign down here on the southeast so people can see it
coming onto Eagle Road, they can see this building, but it needs to be identified pretty
quickly so they can at least route themselves to Meadow View that they didn't have to
sit there and look for street signs. Eagle Road is somewhat busy. I think this will
alleviate great confusion. I have got some pictures here if you guys would like to see
them. The northeast elevation here is the sign. They have a lab that's parked here,
which we can't relocate the sign to this side without -- it wouldn't do any good, because
when you're down the street with the trailer there, it would be at such an angle that it
wouldn't have any bearing on any traffic going this way. This is the view from Eagle
Road to the building. If the sign was allowed it would make easy identification for that
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building. Staff requested that monument signs be put up, but I think the codes allow for
only a four foot high monument sign, which you can see some cars are parked along
the side of the street and that would -- actually, from this distance it wouldn't be very
recognizable, so that's why we'd like to put the other sign down here on the bottom on
the southeast. Any questions?
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Mr. Keeble, I heard you address the one monument sign, but there also talks
about a sign on the north side of the building, as well as a monument sign -- is that
Magic View you said would not work?
Keeble: Yes. This is Magic View.
Nary: Okay. So they also suggested a freestanding sign on Allen Street. So tell me why
those won't work.
Keeble: Yes. Well, they would be small. From this point up here you could barely see it,
but the sign here is actually for people on Eagle Road to make a quick identification on
the building, because they will have to maneuver across to get to Meadow Valley and it
just alleviates them from figuring out, you know, which direction to go to.
Nary: But, Mr. Keeble, it says that you could put a sign on the north side of your
building, so it would be visible from the freeway --
Keeble: No. There is a building -- there is a building right here, which takes away the
view of this building or this sign. The only time you can see the sign is if you come down
Allen Street crossing Meadow View. So you can't see these two signs at one time at any
one point. The building has such a long elevation that esthetically it works well with just
two signs on each side. Any monument signage, the codes I think like are like four foot
high, so from a distance up here where the road is it wouldn't be as visible for clients as
would two big signs.
Nary: But wouldn't it be visible -- I mean big signs are always going to be visible, I agree
with that, but isn't it going to be visible from the street? I mean the address is going to
be either Magic View or Allen Street, which are on that street. Can you see them?
Keeble: Well, not really. The only time you can see -- the only sign you see, actually,
from Meadow View is the north one and if that was changed to the north elevation, you
wouldn't see it at all. This one faces --
Nary: Well, you can leave one there.
Keeble: Yeah. Yeah. We could. If we didn't have this one down here, it would -- it
wouldn't have any identification on site, because this building covers the view of the
other side. Do you see what I'm saying?
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Nary: Uh-huh. Okay.
De Weerd: Why not in that grassy setback?
Keeble: Right here?
De Weerd: Yeah. Or towards the corner, anywhere in that area.
Keeble: Well, like I say,if it was a monument sign, you would have people coming in this
direction that need to find it and it's a small -- the code would only allow for a four foot
high monument sign, so if the people are there, they have actually already found it. It's
just for visibility from Eagle Road for them to see that sign, because this building here
blocks the other sign view. If it was -- if the whole building was in view, then it wouldn't
be a problem, but since it's split by this building and from Eagle Road it would just make
it a lot quicker for people to identify it.
De Weerd: Is that an empty lot that we are looking at over -- or over?
Keeble: Yeah. Jackson's.
De Weerd: So when they build that you won't be able to see your sign on --
Keeble: Well, it depends on what they build, I guess. It's probably more parking, but I --
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Was that building built when this lot was platted; do you know?
Keeble: Actually, I don't know. You'd have to speak to Karen Noyes, she's an associate.
Nary: Do you know how long the building has been there?
Keeble: This one?
Nary: Yes.
Keeble: They just had it built, I believe.
Nary: How long has the business been there?
Keeble: Well, they just moved in. I think they had it built for that purpose.
Nary: So when they built it, they knew the configuration of this lot, they knew that when
they designed the building on the lot and now they want to put the signs in a different
spot and they need a variance for it. Is that basically it in a nutshell?
Keeble: Well, I think they had planned for those signs to be there originally.
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Nary: Planned for the signs under the variance or planned for the signs that they put on
the building?
Keeble: Well, planned for the signs that -- before this -- we didn't know this would be a
problem. I think the code had just been changed, so --
Nary: Well, except, Mr. Keeble, the code was changed over a year ago. I thought you
just said they just built that.
Keeble: Well, recently, but --
Corrie: Okay. If you'd like come up, Karen. Is the testimony you're about to give the
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Noyes: Yes.
Corrie: Name and address, please.
Noyes: Karen Noyes. I live at 472 North Waterfront Way, Boise, Idaho. I'd like to answer
your question to start. The building was just built and completed. We opened up for
business June 3rd of this year. When we designed the building and the layout, even the
signs -- if you were able to see the actual pictures, you would see that we actually have
lights there ready to light up the sign, until we realized we needed permits. We hadn't
done our homework very well. So that's why we are here trying to get a variance permit,
because we realize we are not going to fit into what you guys have designed. So that's
how we got here. The reason we feel it's not necessary -- that we want another sign is
not necessarily the approach from Allen Street or from the East Magic View, the sign we
have on the eastern end of that elevation is good for Magic View. Magic View, as you
know, cross-sects with Eagle Road. We sit back about two blocks off of Eagle Road on
Magic View Drive. Our building mainly faces South Allen, but we do have a Magic View
Drive address. So that's what we have for our clients who come in, we give them that
address. As they maneuver down Eagle Road -- we realized this, again, as we were
building just how busy Eagle Road is. Meridian is growing, we are part of your
community, we enjoy being here, but the fact is Eagle Road is a scary place. It's -- I
believe, if I have my facts straight with the research we have done, it's not a city road,
it's really a highway is what I understand, which is why speed and -- so we are kind of
learning a whole lot. But as we try to tell our patients, okay, this is how you get to us and
we are trying to describe to them where Magic View Drive is, it's a very small sign, just
like a neighborhood street sign. That's great when you're going perhaps 25 or 35 miles
an hour in a residential or other districts, but when you're going 55 and you're
negotiating and you're hoping to God that you can cross lanes of traffic, it gets a little
scary. That is why I guess we are looking at trying to have a quick identification of the
building. If you were to drive down Eagle Road, as you get off of I-84, you cannot see
the existing sign until you're either at Magic View and by then you better know it's there
or you have to go down to the stop light. The stop light does not have a clear sign. It
does have a private lane, St. Luke's Lane, which we do tell them that, but right now,
even talking to the city, it hasn't really determined what is that road there that we ask
them to turn on. So whether they are coming southbound on Eagle Road and we are
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trying to get them to know where to come and what -- because people do have visual
contact no matter address you give them or coming off I-84 going northbound, we are
trying to give them a visual. That's our thought. It's -- in your ordinance I thought it was
great, because you wrote you want it to be convenient for the citizen, you want to keep
citizen's safe. That was two of your main issues on the very first of your sign ordinance.
That's all we are talking about. It is a scary road, there is nothing we can do about it,
except to try to make people lives easier and if you can get a visual, sometimes you see
that before you see numbers on a house or a building. I respect your ordinance, I think
it's great. Sitting here all night long listening to all the different ramifications, things you
don't normally think about, I'd just like you to consider that. I think we come into
Meridian and we built a very nice facility, we are going to keep it up, we are a medical
facility, so we take care of patients, so maybe the safety of people is kind of hot on my
mind, but I just -- I don't know. I worry about people and there is nothing we can do
about the traffic, can't change that, so I'm saying one more sign, it's a very pleasing,
esthetic sign, it's a real, you know, illuminated sign, I think it fits very well within your
planning and your future planning. I will invite you to take a walk out there. I don't know
if the staff had an opportunity to do that, but that's my plea for another sign and the
reasons why. Any questions?
Corrie: Karen, would it help if ACHD -- I won't say ACHD. But East Magic View Drive
had a bigger sign, so they could see that where they turn?
Noyes: It sure wouldn't hurt. I talked to some very nice people at the ACHD and the City
of Meridian and there seems to be a little confusion about it. You know, that would
probably help. It won't help our situation with not doing our homework soon enough and
literally having lights up and -- you know, there would be take down limits. So if we want
to talk about what's bad for us, yeah, we have to take it down, we are going to have to
reface it, we have got a sign made -- it's not your fault, you know, we should have done
things differently and, unfortunately, that one small thing we dropped the ball on. So it's
less about that and more about -- I don't think it would be a burden on Meridian, I don't
think it would be esthetically bad for any of our neighbors, I don't think it would be
offensive.
Corrie: Okay.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Can you get the picture back up? I want -- the sign that's on the southeast side of
the building that your -- it's on the northeast now and where you want to relocate the
second, down on the southeast. What they got is a -- is this -- well, I can't remember
who occupies this building here. And right across the street is the Lincoln Plaza and
Mountain West Bank across Allen Street. This sign you're wanting to put down here,
you feel is going to give you exposure to Eagle Road when you got the Jackson's, you
got the two medical buildings, they are two stories, but there is the two --
Noyes: I do firmly believe that -- it's been three months since this place has been being
built and I go out there -- it was weekly and then daily and now we are out there, it
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became our reality, not only, you know, the speed of what was going on on that site, but
how quickly you have to identify where you're going and it's not -- I think Magic View is a
whole other -- the sign, that's a whole other thing that I would love to see, because it's
little, but the other thing is you can see it, even with the two story large -- there is two
different buildings in front of us that are St. Luke's Professional Buildings --
Bird: Yeah. They are the medical buildings.
Noyes: You can see them. But that's the problem is with just the one you're either at
Magic View or you're beyond it and then if you don't know, okay, now I got to go down
to the light and turn, which there is an unidentified road, we don't know what to put on a
map. So we have got all sorts of issues. We are thinking we can't wait for lots of things
like that to really happen, we want people to see us, know where to find us, so we can
serve them a little better, rather than making -- from what I hear we are losing
customers, because they go, forget it, we are not going to Meridian. We don't want that
to happen. That's bad for all of us.
De Weerd: So you're not going to put it on the carport, you're going to put it out on the
end of the building here? Is that where you have got the lights and stuff set up there?
Noyes: Yes, sir. So it really is on opposite expanses of the building. The entire -- they
are at opposite -- total opposite ends.
Bird: You have quite a few elderly patients coming to that?
Noyes: Absolutely.
Bird: That definitely is -- this is Hubble's building right here? Isn't that Hubble
Engineering?
Noyes: There is --
Bird: Hubble Homes.
Noyes: Yes.
Bird: And Jackson's sits right here.
Corrie: Okay. Any other questions? Okay. Thank you. Is there anyone else from the
public that would like to issue testimony at this time? Okay. Council?
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Shari, that building -- I mean I realize that we didn't plan the building or didn't put it
out there. As the young lady says, that they might have made a wrong choice or
something, but they do have a lot of elderly patients. It's an imaging building, as I
understand, and you and I both know if you can't see something out there in that traffic,
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you might be over to Overland Road trying to get off before you realize that you have
missed the deal. I agree, I don't want to go against the ordinance, but I think this one -- I
think this is basically, in my viewpoint, this is a safety issue with the traffic congestion
you have got out there, so people do see the building and know where they are going. I
threw that out while it's still public, so you could reply to me.
Stiles: Mayor and Council, Councilman Bird, I don't necessarily disagree with that. I
would kind of hope that people aren't looking around for a sign while they are on Eagle
Road. It's a big enough mess out there as it is and I'm not sure that at a distance
roughly equivalent from out the front door here down to East 2nd Street where the
police is, how visible that would be.
Bird: I don't disagree with you, Shari. I understand that. It's a long ways. I question -- as
I said, I question whether you get between -- how much you're going to see of it with the
two two-story buildings out there that -- that Shari's put up that are Jackson's and --
Jackson's has semis sitting in there in their back lot a lot of times with trailers and stuff,
so I don't know how good of visibility you're going to have from Eagle, but it's definitely
better than what they have got right now. I doubt if you would see anything, because
you have got Magic View or Allen Street before you can see that sign.
Stiles: Mr. Mayor, Council Members, I would ask that if you are going to consider the
wall sign, that there be some concession made by the applicant that at least they forego
their ability to put freestanding signs in addition to that. I know -- I know it's not much,
but they do -- are allowed quite a few additional signs beyond what they have now and,
you know, another way to look at this particular case, if they had happened to sublease
portions of that building, perhaps divide it into four or five office buildings, they would be
allowed to have a sign on each -- over each doorway. You know, it doesn't change the
ordinance, it doesn't change what they need approved in order to get a variance, but I
mean I can see -- I can see both ways. I can see some flaws in the sign ordinance, but
we have to live with what we have, so --
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Nary: I know the Public Hearing is still open, but I guess what I have a concern with is
about a month ago we had a very similar situation. We had a platted lot that was behind
a building that wanted to have an off-premise sign so you could find it and we denied it,
because our ordinance doesn't give that flexibility to that degree and we discussed it at
the time of saying we need to revisit our ordinance and this is another example. But I
can't make these findings. These findings say we have to find a hardship and the
hardship here is partly because they designed their building without reading the sign
ordinance. That's not our fault. They say in their application nothing prevents
compliance with this ordinance. I have a hard time saying that we can deny a bucket in
Meridian at Main Street and then we can deny this other gentleman out on Fairview to
have something and here the applicant is saying we can comply, we just would like
something different and suggests it. I just don't see how we can do that. We do need to
revisit our ordinance. I think that's probably clear. And I think Mrs. Stiles has brought up
a good suggestion that if we are looking at a variance, then instead of having a bigger
sign, we need to look at whether or not two wall signs is a better fit. But I don't know
how we make this finding based upon their request that says they can comply and there
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is no special circumstances. The circumstance is created by the applicant. So I know
we are not really in the discussion stage, but I don't know how we can make these
findings. We need to maybe revisit our ordinance and do that, but there are two
intersections that can be found without the sign, one has a stop light and one doesn't.
People can find this. There has been no testimony by the applicant that they have even
tried these alternatives and not been able to come back -- and come back and show
that there is a need. They haven't even done it. It's just a hoped. They just perceive this
and I don't see how we can make these findings based on their perception and still
stand by the other decisions we have made in the last three months. So since the Public
Hearing is open, I guess you can comment. But I just don't see how we can do that.
McCandless: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. McCandless.
McCandless: Even listening to Mr. Nary, I still can't see why a variance in this particular
case can't be granted and maybe we do need to visit the ordinance again, but it seems
to me to move a sign on a building, so that you could see it from a greater distance to
make it easier for the patients to come in, I agree with Mr. Bird.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: They can do that. They can move the sign. They can't have two on the same wall.
That's part of the problem. They could move it.
Corrie: That was my question. Can they move the sign without a variance?
Stiles: Yes.
Corrie: That would --
Bird: Or they could do it for associates, they could split and they got a north entry and
an east entry and put a sign over each one. If they split the building up they could have
a sign over every door, so --
Corrie: Okay. Anybody got any other questions that needs to be in the Public Hearing to
the applicant?
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I move we close the Public Hearing.
Bird: I second it.
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Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded to close the Public Hearing. Any
further discussion? All in favor say aye. Opposed no? Motion passed.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: Now any other comments for the record that hasn't already been said?
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I know that our P&Z Commission is starting to get to some of our
ordinances. This might be something that they can take a look at, some of the flaws or
the areas that we continue to have requests for variances, if they can evaluate our
ordinance and see where we might need to tweak some areas or your staff, I don't know
what kind of time they have, but if you can either have your staff address that, Shari, or
ask that P&Z Commission consider updating or evaluating our sign ordinance, I think
with the number of variance requests it certainly would be warranted.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Also, while we look at that, get some people that put some signs up and do it on
the -- looking at them, too, instead of when we draft it we left out the people that put the
signs on.
De Weerd: No, we didn't.
Bird: Okay.
Corrie: Okay. Any further comments? Hearing none, I'll entertain a motion on the
request for a variance.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I'm going to move that we deny VAR 02-008, request for variance to add one
additional sign on a large medical clinic and radiologist center building by Imaging
Center Radiologists at 2929 East Magic View Drive, that our counsel prepare Findings
of Fact and Conclusions of Law and Decision and Order pursuant to the staff findings
and recommendations in the staff report and that there is not findings that we can make
in relation to 11-18-1 of the Meridian City Code, Subsections A and B, that compliance
with the code cannot be accomplished with the allowed signage for this building.
De Weerd: Second.
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Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded. Is there any further discussion? Hearing
none, roll-call vote, Mr. Berg.
Roll-Call: Bird, nay; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, nay; Nary, aye.
Corrie: For the applicant, I hear what you're saying, I do agree that you need some
signage there, because people have trouble seeing. However, I do agree with Mr. Nary
that you need to try something a little different, move the signs around first, then if that
doesn't work, then I think you might have grounds for a variance. At this time I must
agree with Mr. Nary, that we don't have the proper grounds for a variance at this time,
so with that being said, I would suggest that you try to move the signage around, see if
it works, if it doesn't, then let's try it again. So I'm going to vote aye for the motion and
ask that you do that.
MOTION CARRIED: TWO AYES, TWO NAYS.
Corrie: Also before we quit, I would like to thank Mike Brokaw of ACHD. Mike, I
apologize, but we should have done this when everybody was in this room here, but we
do appreciate ACHD and you being here. Do you have -- would you like to introduce the
lady next to you?
(Introduction made.)
Corrie: Okay. Welcome both of you and we will be seeing you again and thank you very
much. Council, that concludes the agenda items. Is there any housekeeping things that
we need to take up?
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: Next week we have our City Council workshop on July 9th. We will start with
an executive session at 5:00 o'clock and then at 6:30 we will -- pardon?
Corrie: The reason for it is personnel.
De Weerd: And then the workshop will be held at Storey Park starting at 6:30. We will
have the Planning and Zoning Commission and the Parks Commission join us for a tour
following a brief workshop, again, to probably get an update and then an introduction
from the parks director and the Commission members to introduce the tour itself. It will
be a potluck barbecue. We are in charge -- I understand that Will will coordinate some
beverages, but if each Council member and Mayor would bring a bag of chips, that
would satisfy our requirements for the potluck.
Corrie: One bag of chips apiece?
Nary: Is it 5:00 o'clock?
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De Weerd: 5:00 o'clock for executive session, 6:30 for a workshop. The P&Z
Commission is bringing deserts. The Parks Commission is in charge of side dishes and
condiments. The Parks Department is coordinating the barbecue and paper goods and
certainly the appropriate staff, Planning and Zoning Administrator, Will, Bill -- Will, Bill
and anyone else that rhymes. Frank, you're certainly welcome to join us. You won't
even have to bring anything.
McCandless: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Yes, Mrs. McCandless.
McCandless: On the 13th?
De Weerd: July 9th.
McCandless: Oh July, 9th. Okay. That's no problem then.
De Weerd: Just to remind you, the 17th of July as well for our volunteer appreciation
barbecue.
McCandless: But I can't come to that. That's what I was worried about, because I've got
-- I'm going to be gone the 16th and 17th anyway.
Nary: Could we adjourn so we don't have to keep track of the minutes.
Corrie: Okay. Motion been made and seconded to adjourn. I didn't get a second.
Nary: I think Mrs. McCandless seconded it.
McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Okay. All those in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: Okay. Meeting adjourned at ten minutes after 10:00.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 10:10 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
APPROVED:
/ /
ROBERT D. CORRIE, MAYOR DATE
ATTESTED:
WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., CITY CLERK