HomeMy WebLinkAbout2002 05-14
Meridian City Council StrateQic PlanninQ SessionlWorkshop May 14. 2002
The Strategic Planning SessionlWorkshop meeting of the Meridian City Council
was called to order at 6:30 P.M. on Tuesday, May 14, 2002, by Councilwoman
Tammy De Weerd.
Members Present: Mayor Robert Corrie, Tammy de Weerd, Keith Bird, Bill Nary,
and Cherie McCandless.
Others Present: Gary Smith, Pauline Skeggs, Stacy Kilchenmann, Bill Musser,
Jonathan Brunt, Kenny Bowers, Joe Silva and Will Berg.
Item 1.
Roll-call Attendance:
x
X
Tammy de Weerd
Cherie McCandless
X
X Bill Nary
X Keith Bird
Mayor Robert Corrie
De Weerd: I'm going to go ahead and open the City Council Strategic Planning
Session for May 14, 2002. It is currently 6:35 p.m. I'll go ahead and have roll
call. We're going to go ahead and open this with Executive Session. I will
entertain a motion per Idaho State Code 67-2345 1-C.
Bird: I'll so move.
Nary: Second.
Roll Call: Bird, aye; Nary, aye; de Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Mayor Bob
Corrie, aye.
(Executive Session)
De Weerd: I'll go ahead and entertain a motion to come out of Executive
Session.
McCandless: So moved.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: All those in favor say aye. We're coming out of Executive Session.
It is 7:25 p.m. No decisions were made.
Written Updates:
Issue No.1 Dust Abatement Ordinance
De Weerd: Written updates. We had Dust Abatement Ordinance update and I
didn't see a written update on that. We didn't see a written update on the Fire
Meridian City Council
May 14, 2002 Strategic Planning Session /Workshop
Page 2 of 35
Department Capital Improvement Plan or Business License Ordinance. I don't
know how well our written update section is doing. We did get something from
Stacy on Item number 2. Gary.
Smith: Mayor and Council. I've put some updated information together
(inaudible) in your boxes.
De Weerd: Was that today?
Bird: No. No. Last week.
(inaudible)
McCandless: Well, and also, the Business License Ordinance. Do we have
that?
Smith: I guess-I submitted some business-there's a little bit about the dust
issue. Is that okay? Did you want to talk about it at all?
De Weerd: Council, do you want to discuss that at this point or after the news
report?
Bird: I would prefer to discuss it right now (inaudible) abatement (inaudible)
Smith: Yes. The information I gave you on that
(inaudible)
Smith: Dave McKinnon has been doing some work on this. As I mentioned, the
(inaudible) Executive Committee Meeting with COMPASS. Mayor Corrie and I
heard a presentation, and I don't remember who made it, concerning 1999
(inaudible) emissions and 2002 reductions. The handout that they provided to
us, attached to this memo, I think it's at the back of the memorandum, (inaudible)
table. Clair Bowman did the presentation. There's basically just two-well,
actually, they list two areas of emission reduction. One is open burning and the
other is fugitive dust. One other item that was covered by Clair at the
presentation was covered loads of gravel and, I guess, dirt and that sort of thing
that can blow. The open burning emission is a different type than the fugitive
dust. The open burning is apparently-well, it affects individuals differently than
dust blowing does because of the makeup of the emissions from the burning.
Dave McKinnon had called a June Ramsdell at COMPASS who is working on a
regional pollution control ordinance. She advised him that small cities in Ada and
Canyon County are opposed to enacting any ordinances and enforcement
measures on any pollution other than track out, which is vehicles pulling out of
construction sites on to the roadway with mud on the tires and covered loads.
Their concern is the cost of enforcement. That was the big problem. In that
regard, according to this lady, COMPASS is only going to address those two
items on a regional basis this year. They did say the cities, of course, could be
Meridian City Council
May 14, 2002 Strategic Planning Session /Workshop
Page 3 of 35
more restrictive and address more things, if they so desire. But, as far as the
regional situation, that's all COMPASS is going to look at. The three items that
I've listed in long hand on that table at the back of the memo, the covered loads,
open burning and fugitive dust, they were to focus on those three items in order
to accomplish the goals in the lawsuit that's been filed. I'm afraid I don't know
much about the lawsuit. Actually, I don't know anything about it other than there
had been one filed. So, that's in a thumbnail sketch of what I've been able to find
on dust control. Ada County and the City of Boise have a very comprehensive
dust pollution ordinance. DEQ has a 1998 statute that is (inaudible) rules for
control of fugitive dust. It's about a page and a half long. David had obtained a
fugitive dust ordinance from Salt Lake City, which is about a page, and
purportedly, it works quite well for them. So, I guess at this point, all I've given
you is a bunch of information. I don't know exactly how you want to proceed.
David did put together a draft ordinance. He did also provide some information
on what fugitive dust is. I guess I would look for some direction as to how you
want to proceed.
De Weerd: Council. I guess we could go ahead and put this on the agenda for
next month to discuss it and have a chance to digest what Gary has given us and
look at what David has put together. Is Will here?
Smith: Will had to leave for a meeting. He'll be back shortly.
De Weerd: In our COMPASS package for this months meeting for next Monday
on the 20th, COMPASS is going to discuss this. There is a section here with their
recommendations to the COMPASS board. Have you gotten your packet
information on the COMPASS meeting? Generally, you get one every month.
You may want to have a chance to look this over. If you have any input, please
let the Mayor or I know so we can bring that for discussion at the meeting next
week because this is an item that was discussed. You might also look at the
meeting minutes from April 15th. There was some considerable discussion on
dust minimization as well. If you have any comments, please get that in to the
Mayor or myself so we can bring it forward. Gary, this is a very informative
packet. If Council wouldn't be opposed to it, we can just go ahead and put it on
the agenda for June and have a discussion on it then. Council?
(inaudible)
De Weerd: Cherie will be running that.
Smith: Do you want me to bring something back to you at that time (inaudible)
De Weerd: I think we could go based on what you've given us tonight and
discuss it further then.
Smith: One other thing I have, President De Weerd, is the State has sent out a
negotiated rule making an open burning. I've got some copies of that that Ken
Harwood e-mailed me if you would like that.
Meridian City Council
May 14, 2002 Strategic Planning Session /Workshop
Page 4 of 35
McCandless: It's the same one that Will e-mailed to us.
De Weerd: I'll take it in writing, though.
McCandless: Yes. Then I won't have to print it.
Bird: I printed mine off last night.
McCandless: I didn't print mine yet.
(inaudible)
Corrie: (inaudible) for every e-mail you send too, by the way. It's a house bill
that's coming up in Congress to charge you a nickel for every e-mail you receive.
(inaudible)
De Weerd: Kenny, if you could also kind of take a look at this information on
open burning, since your department's the one that issues the permits and
maybe have some comments to include in the packet, as well. Could you do
that?
Bowers: (inaudible) anything different on it or not but I can sure take a look at it.
De Weerd: Okay. Do you have an oral report to give?
Issue No.2 Fire Department Capital Improvement Plan
Bowers: Well, an update from last month.
De Weerd: On Issue #2.
Bowers: Yes, Madam President. Capital Improvement Plan for the Fire
Department for the City of Meridian. The first page just explains a little bit about
where we got our figures of how we come up with the population, how we come
with our response figures. I know you guys haven't had time to look through this
yet. Stacy had just looked through it today also so she would not have time to
give you guys a report on it. Basically, the first category talks about estimated
population protected. The next category is our response calls estimated for the
future for each year. The next category is just what we are going to be doing.
Station three, purchasing an engine, building station four, purchasing an engine
for four. The next category is how much each one will cost. Facilities-$875,000
for a station. That's with equipment and merchandise inside. The apparatus-
$375,000. That is for the truck itself and loose equipment that goes with it. The
next category is land. How much we will be paying for land. The next category
is replacement apparatus. As our trucks get older, we have to replace some of
them. We will run our trucks out to 20 to 25 years. That's how long we will run
Meridian City Council
May 14, 2002 Strategic Planning Session /Workshop
Page 5 of 35
them. Then the total. The last column is the total. It's a very aggressive capital
outlay. It went 12 to 13 years. I'm not sure if you want to go clear out to 2020. If
you do, Keith, if you'd like me to, I sure would. Thirteen years is a very
aggressive schedule. Like I've told some of you before, I think that a station on
the north and a station on the south are our very important priorities for the next
few years. So, I went two years in between the two stations, three and four.
Then we went three years between the next stations. Then we went back to
three and four years. So, if you can kind of look it over, give us your thoughts on
it. Joe has worked on it, Bill has worked on it, myself and Stacy has looked at it.
So, give us your thoughts after you've read it and we can do another report on it
next month, if you want.
De Weerd: Mayor.
Corrie: Kenny, as the population grows, are your engines and that going to last
25 years?
Bowers: What we will do, Mayor Corrie, President, Madam, Chairman, Tammy
De Weerd, City Council, we will run the engines probably around 15 to 18 years.
Somewhere in that area. Front line. Then we will put them in a back-up or
reserve for eight years or so. Somewhere around in that area. Once you get
four or five stations, you will have that many engines. So, you're going to have to
have a couple of reserves. So anytime that you have a truck down, you'll have to
have a truck to go in it's spot. If it needs tires put on it or if it needs brakes put on
it or if it needs a service job, that truck is going to be out of service for possibly a
day or two, so you'll need another engine to go into that position. We'll try to run
them 15 to 18 years. Right now our 304, our main engine, is a 1993. So, it's
coming up onto ten years and we've got 80,000 miles on it already. As you build
more stations and bring on more fire trucks, the mileage on those will slow down
because they will be pulling out of the other satellite stations.
McCandless: Madam President?
De Weerd: Cherie.
McCandless: Kenny, do your population figures include the rural?
(inaudible)
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Councilman Nary.
Nary: I'm just curious, Kenny, on engine three and engine four follow the building
of the station but engines five, six and seven precede the building of the station.
Bowers: Councilperson Nary. We have engines right now that can go into
station three and four as we build. When we get to station five, those trucks that
Meridian City Council
May 14, 2002 Strategic Planning Session /Workshop
Page 6 of 35
we're putting in three and four will be in reserve. That's why we have to bring a
truck before.
Nary: I got it. Okay.
De Weerd: Any other questions? Thank you, Kenny.
Bowers: Thank you. Appreciate it. It took us long enough.
De Weerd: It's good to have something to work with and I'm sure Stacy also
appreciates it. Stacy, do you have anything you want to add?
Bowers: She wants us to put dollars signs in front of the figures.
De Weerd: Do you want to come up here so we can you on tape to make sure
your words are not inaudible?
Kilchenmann: Mr. Mayor. Members of the Council. I think that they did a good
job with this. They've got everything that we need to see. They have a
population projection. They tied it to their responses. They have the major
facilities and equipment and years that they need to replace it. So I think it's
comprehensive enough for a very good start. They also have, which they didn't
give you, but they have quite a bit of detail, exactly which engines will need to be
replaced, and so forth. I have a few questions on it, as far as, furniture and what
it will take to actually make sure we have enough to completely outfit the stations.
The next step we need to do is start doing what the impact of operating expense
will be. (inaudible) personnel, start annualizing it, taking it out into the future and
so forth. That will be (inaudible)
De Weerd: Okay.
Bowers: We did put in there, around 2016, a repair shop. I don't know what the
ideas of the City are for the future of doing their own repairs in the future. But as
we get more and more fire trucks and-they're pretty technical to work on with
the pumps and everything underneath. We might have to possibly build a repair
shop or something in the future to repair our trucks. That way, they're not going
clear to Boise all the time to get repaired. We could possibly do it here. I don't
know if that's in the City's plan of doing that or not. I don't know. That's quite a
ways out.
McCandless: Madam President. I noticed that in your replacement apparatus, it
remains the same instead of-it's obviously going to be more expensive in 2017
than it is today.
Bowers: Yes, that's true. What we did, we just used 2002 dollars. Today's
dollars, is what we did. I don't know. I can't tell you what it's going to go up.
Most trucks go up 5%. Sometimes 3%. So we decided to go with the 2002
Meridian City Council
May 14, 2002 Strategic Planning Session /Workshop
Page 7 of 35
dollars on all figures for the station and everything. Yes. That figure will go up
as we go up In years.
De Weerd: Kenny, one last thing is, I notice not until 2009, I'm looking at a
training tower but I don't see any other training facilities noted before that time.
Why's that?
Bowers: Basically, all we decided we were going to do, possibly in the next few
years, is build some small training facilities at the station we have now on
Franklin. Some gas, propane and stuff there. Have training there. For the future
then, building a big training tower somewhere. Possibly, out at the sewer plant or
something like that. I'm not sure. Yes. We don't have any plans of doing
anything big until that year because we're building stations and buying trucks,
and buying land. I thought it would be too aggressive to try to get that in there
before that.
De Weerd: Those are things that have higher grant potential than an actual
building structure, like a substation or (inaudible)
Bower: Exactly. Any type of grant monies-what we will do. We will apply to try
to get more training stuff. Training towers and whatever comes around again.
The cycle.
De Weerd: Just wanted to make sure that still part of our vision.
Bower: Thank you very much. Appreciate it. If you have any questions, give us
a call because I know that's pretty in depth.
De Weerd: Joe, did you have something?
Silva: Joe Silva, Fire Marshall. One thing that I just want to bring to light in the
comments in title land at the top. Currently, we have one project that's being
proposed. The Lochsa Falls Subdivision, which has 1.33 acres as part of that
proposal. So that $100,000 (inaudible) So we could have those opportunities.
That $300,000 that's indicated for land, we've been approached by (inaudible)
projects have been proposed to incorporate those into the proposals. (inaudible)
De Weerd: That's excellent. Those kind of partnerships--
Silva: That one there for station five is definitely part of that(inaudible)
De Weerd: Thank you, Joe. Thanks, Kenny. Do we have any kind of update on
the Business License Ordinance? Is this something we want to continue to carry
forward on our agenda or is it something that staff no longer has any importance
on? I don't want to be pushing something that no one has an interest in.
Issue No.3 Business License Ordinance
Meridian City Council
May 14, 2002 Strategic Planning Session /Workshop
Page 8 of 35
Smith: Madam President, Mayor and Council. We definitely have an interest in it
and that is the Wastewater Plant, the Fire Department, the Police Department.
We all three departments have an interest in-I guess, it's the business licensing
process in order for us to know what types of businesses are in Meridian,
particularly, as it relates to hazardous materials. Things that might be discharged
into the sewer that will find their way out to the Wastewater Plant that could
cause severe problems with the biological process that we have out there for
treatment. Police and Fire entering a building under situations where they have
to respond to the emergency and not knowing what's in the building in terms of
chemicals on a fire. Police Department, the same situation. So, we definitely do
have a very high interest in that business license procedure, process. Some time
ago, and I can't tell you the date, I did send to you, I think it was at the last
workshop maybe the workshop before that, I did send a list of items that the
Police Department responded to and the Fire Department and also Wastewater
Department. I guess, at this point, with that information in hand, we can proceed
with the preparation of an ordinance if you want to. I guess (inaudible) to Bill's
office and bring a draft ordinance back to you if that's what you'd like to see. We,
as those three departments in the City, are very interested in the process.
De Weerd: Okay. So, at this point-and I know Cherie, did you have a comment
on that as well? (inaudible) put something (inaudible) Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: One of the issues the Council has to decide is whether it's only
particular businesses that are licensed or whether it's every business. Drafting
an ordinance (inaudible) correct me if I'm wrong but when I looked at the Boise
City Code, there are only certain businesses that had to have a license. It
certainly wasn't every business. It wasn't necessarily every business (inaudible)
putting something nasty down the drain and it wasn't every business that might
have some hazardous materials in the building that would be a concern to the
Police Department. Not that Boise does everything backward but there must be
some reason that they don't try to license everything. I expect that's partly to do
with the (inaudible). Boise Council who direct staff, (inaudible). Or the other
question to be answered is, is there another way of addressing these issues
other than a business license? Is there some way of (inaudible)the property so
that they don't get occupied without a certificate of occupancy which doesn't
have (inaudible) issues are addressed. Buildings brought up to code(inaudible).
For example, Nampa's building department went around and if there is a building
that is vacated (inaudible) corner offices in downtown Nampa, vacated and is up
for sale. They had (inaudible) blue stickers that were pasted to the doors that
said this property cannot be occupied without a certificate of occupancy from the
Nampa City Building Department. So when those building did sell, they
(inaudible) improvements, if necessary, in order to bring the building up to code.
(inaudible) I think what needs to part of your discussion is how broad and is it
only the (inaudible)
De Weerd: Well, a little bit of background. We did visit, I think Celeste, from the
Wastewater Treatment Plant, was the first to bring this up. Prior to Councilman
Nary stepping on, we did have this conversation and there was no compelling
Meridian City Council
May 14, 2002 Strategic Planning Session /Workshop
Page 9 of 35
reason why we needed anything city wide for the business license. It started to
kind of surface that there particular business that specific departments wanted to
have knowledge of. It was then, we kind of took a step back and said okay, let's
get business specific. I think this has gone on maybe a period of time that this
discussion is needed again if Council would like to revisit that. I know Cherie has
raised a couple of items today on why it might be helpful to the City to have a
business license with a minimal fee to let the City know what's going on and who
is out there and those kind of things. Do we need to have that conversation
again or do we want to direct staff, now that we have their lists of specific
departments that they would like to see included in the permit license process or
do we want to reconsider having it for all businesses?
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Mr. Nichols is right. The City of Boise doesn't have a general business
license. The primary reason they don't is enforcement. The cost of enforcement
is huge. There's not much point in having licensing if you don't have the cost and
the people to enforce those licenses. Otherwise, all you're getting is voluntary
compliance, which is fine, but it's not getting the end result that you're wanting. I
agree with Mr. Nichols. What we may want to do-my recollection and I don't
have the list in front of me but Chief Worley's desire of the types of businesses
that get licensed is significantly different than what Mr. Smith was talking about
because Chief Worley's list was dealing with law enforcement problems. Law
enforcement types of issues and having noticed that those types of activities are
occurring. To my recollection, he was talking about escort services and massage
parlors and those types of things that are law enforcement concerns not
occupancy types of concerns. Occupancy issue is different and that may be a
better avenue to go with rather than licensing we're looking at certificates of
occupancy because then you're still identifying the uses of what's going on to
identify public safety as well as general safety concerns of what uses are there.
We already have tools in which to enforce that to some degree with maybe just
some enhancement on it. Building inspectors and those types of things rather
than code enforcement folks for licensing, trying to license an activity. I'm not
sure if there needs to be a discussion on general licensing. I don't think we have
the means to do that. We may want to figure out exactly, like Mr. Nichols has
brought up, are there things we can address a little cheaper from not having to
get more personnel just to enforce it. But really address those particular
concerns like you brought forward, Gary, like (inaudible) has at Planning and
Zoning versus what the Chief is talking about. Now, in general, those are done
by the City Clerk in most cities as well as the City of Boise. Again, I don't think
Mr. Berg has a huge staff to go out and enforce this. It's all right if we want to
have them but then we have to do the other end and we have to provide the
support for them to do that. That may be just looking at, instead of adding five
people, we'll only add one but you're going to be narrowing targeting (inaudible)
licensing concerns versus what you need occupancies, inspection types of
concerns. That might be the way to go. How we accomplish that, whether we do
Meridian City Council
May 14, 2002 Strategic Planning Session /Workshop
Page 10 of 35
that through you folks getting together and trying to decide those things, meeting
with Mr. Nichols to try to decide. It doesn't really matter to me. If we talk about it
here, we're just going to keep talking about it so it might be the best way to do it,
you folks get together and figure out which ones can we do so we prioritize what
we can do license wise (inaudible)
Corrie: You're going to have a logistic problem no matter where (inaudible)
whether you're licensing for the Police or occupancy or what have you. So we
want to be sure and include that, Gary, in who you said (inaudible) So we need to
find out the logistics of who is going to do that enforcing the licenses you do
have.
Nary: I agree. If you license everybody, you will have a logistic problem.
De Weerd: So what kind of timeframe and when do we want to bring this back?
We have your June 11th agenda. In July, we are not (inaudible) the workshop for
a tour of the Park system and a joint meeting with Planning and Zoning and the
Parks Commission. What is your preference on this?
Nichols: Madam President. It sounds like maybe I should coordinate a meeting
with the City Attorney and Kenny and Chief Worley, Shari. (inaudible) get
ourselves together and formulate some kind of a plan to bring back to you, a
proposal. That would be my guess as to how we should proceed, at this point.
Corrie: I would suggest they do that(inaudible)
De Weerd: Okay. And maybe not necessarily with a draft but with a proposed
timeframe. Okay. So Police, Fire, Public Works, P&Z and City Clerk and
probably the City Attorney as well. Okay. Thank you. These reoccurring agenda
items are starting to drive me a little nuts. Thank you for being patient. Okay.
Issue Number 4 Rebuild America Program. Mr. Corrie had Mayor Nancolus
come and speak to us about what they've done with this program in Caldwell. It
was suggested that we have some discussion so see if it's something that we
would be interested in doing in our city. Mayor Corrie would you like to take it
from there?
Old Business:
Issue No.4 Rebuild America Program - Mayor Corrie
Corrie: Yes. I'll be very quick. Do you want to proceed? If you do, I'll find out
the figures, whom to contact and pretty well get all that information and bring it
back to you probably within two weeks. Then you can make a decision on
whether you want to do it or not. What it costs. I think we either want to do it or
we don't. There's no cost to us if we do it and we decide not to do anything, it's
big time (inaudible) So, based on that assumption, I would say in two weeks I can
find out everything. If you want me to go ahead with it, find out all the information
and give it to you and you can say aye or nay.
Meridian City Council
May 14, 2002 Strategic Planning Session /Workshop
Page 11 of 35
Bird: I'd go along with that. I'd like to see more things than them being here.
They just hit on the high spots. I'd like to read-
Corrie: We'll give you all the information on what they want to do and I'll have it
from them. I'll give it to you and you'll know what the figures are and you say yes
or no-
De Weerd: So, will we talk about this then on the 29th?
Corrie: Yes. It will just be a real quick report on the 29th.
De Weerd: Mr. Nary, do you have something?
Nary: No. I was just going to agree. That seemed like a good thing. I think
Mayor Nancolus made a good presentation and (inaudible) look at it a little bit
more.
De Weerd: I think, even though we may have short term vision on this particular
building, I'd like more habits that can be changed and those kind of practices that
would definitely benefits us as we transition to move into the future.
Corrie: Okay. I'll do that.
De Weerd: Okay. Issue Number 5. Discussion on Pre-Council Format.
Issue No.5 Discussion on Pre-Council Format
De Weerd: I have forwarded you e-mailsthat I got. I got one from Stacy, Chief
Worley, we have Gary Smith's memo from last month. I know Keith, you've
attended a pre-council. I'm sorry. I have not yet.
Nary: I've only attended the Boise one.
Bird: I attended the Nampa one.
De Weerd: Mayor and Cherie, have you been able to?
McCandless: No. I haven't been able to but I talked to Mike Wetheral to some
degree about it. He wanted us all to come down on Tuesday night and see
theirs.
Bird: Madam Chairman?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I'm all in favor of it. I enjoyed Nampa's. (inaudible) Maybe we could have
our pre-council from 6:00 to-they just go a half hour but maybe we could go
6:00 to 7:00 and try and come back and start Council Meeting. That way we
Meridian City Council
May 14, 2002 Strategic Planning Session /Workshop
Page 12 of 35
could get rid of the workshop we're doing right now, have our meetings, have a
regular Council meeting and a pre-council before the meeting on this night.
Maybe we can start having our agenda small enough that we can be getting out
at 9:00-9:30 on a weekly basis. If we have something hit us, we've always got an
extra week to do it. I'd sure like to give it a try. We've discussed this in the three
to four years I've been on the Council and I'd like to give it try. I think the Mayor
could sit down with Mayor Coles, Mayor Dale over in Nampa and kind of get
some kind of formula that we could work on. I would sure be for giving it a try in
getting a lot of the things that sometimes bogs us down out and any problems
can be aired at that time so when we do gets us ten to fifteen just to discuss
something. I'd love to give it a try.
De Weerd: I think the less formal nature and allowing department reports would
be an added plus and not having those that come for public hearings have to sit
through it. It's not like they're not really exciting reports all the time anyway but
you do start seeing people's eye start to glaze over after awhile.
Nary: Madam President.
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: One of the other things is, we're looking at some sort of streamlining the
whole meeting process. One of the things the City of Boise's process does too,
is what slows down our meetings sometimes, for example, are the ordinances
that on the City of Boise's agenda can all get passed on the Consent Agenda.
They all get read as one motion and they all get read together. The titles are
published on the agenda so the public has the opportunity to come to the
meeting and ask to pull it off. We don't have to read-if you notice I think last
week, we had three ordinances or four ordinances, which takes a significant
amount of time to read the title each time and do all that. That's another method
that can be done to help streamline the process that we can put it on the Consent
Agenda and do it that way. That would help. I'm all for the Pre-Council Format.
It's certainly worth trying. I don't know how Nampa sets up their Pre-Council
Format. I know for Boise, that's coordinated between the Mayor and the Council
President. The Council President sets the agenda for the Pre-Council session.
The Mayor still chairs the meeting. The Pre-Council Format agenda is done by
the Council President in conjunction with the Mayor's office. I think any changes
are at least worth trying and see if it works for us and I don't think there's
anything bad about that.
Corrie: Chairman, also I'd like to (inaudible) thoughts is to end the Department
Reports in the Consent Agenda as well. They could have the Pre-Council
meeting where if you have any questions because usually they tell us what it is
that's passed anyway. If we have any questions about it, then we can ask them
there and then we already have it in down. It could be on the Consent Agenda.
It's read. It's done. We don't have to sit 30 to 40 minutes just for Department
Reports while we get to the other part. I like the idea that you said, Bill, that you
can have your ordinances and all that. A lot of that can be done on the Consent
Meridian City Council
May 14, 2002 Strategic Planning Session /Workshop
Page 13 of 35
Agenda. It would save us a lot of time. We could do new business, old
business, public hearings and get it out of here. I agree with Bill and Keith that I
think it's a good idea. I like the idea where the Council President sits the agenda
to it and then give it at the meeting and it's run and get it done. We're getting up
to the population where we really to control this thing so that it doesn't get out of
hand as far as time is concerned because I know some weeks we're going to
Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday night meetings and I know there's
friction between families and what your time is. If we can cut that back and do it
on that agenda, I'm for that as well.
De Weerd: I think our staff won't be opposed to cutting out a meeting or two.
know Jonathan has nothing better to do. Mr. Nary.
Nary: One other thing too-again, I don't know what Nampa does but Boise,
what they do is geared by time. They don't always adhere strictly to that time but
you have some idea going in that if we're going to discuss the Dust Abatement
Ordinance, you've got ten minutes to do that. Then we're going to move on to
the next thing and absolutely try to keep as close as we can. Same thing, every
one of these things in just looking at our workshop, if we geared our time five or
ten minutes and then back it up accordingly to when the meeting is supposed to
start. Obviously, we couldn't do eleven items before a meeting but we would be
able to at least get some estimate so that way the folks know that my topics on at
6:00 from 6:00 to 6: 15. I know I'm really going to be out of here at 6:30 most of
the time rather than quarter to 8:00. I think that would be really helpful.
De Weerd: When I talk with my brother all about how they do it in Boise, you
know, like they'll say they did a time estimate. It does require a great deal of
thought and preparation from staff in knowing how much time is going to be
needed and almost getting that a week prior to what they're normally used to
working in. It does kind of bump up and make it more aggressive to-
***End of Side One***
De Weerd: --We've been here forever. It's going to be not only a commitment
from the Mayor and Council but it's a huge commitment from staff as well.
Nichols: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Madam President and Members of the Council. Just a reminder that
you can change this by ordinance here. (inaudible) prepare an ordinance that
changes back to the(inaudible) some sort of direction as to whether it says the
Mayor (inaudible) starting at 6:00, meeting to start at 7:00 or start at 6:30,
meeting to start at 7:00.
Meridian City Council
May 14, 2002 Strategic Planning Session /Workshop
Page 14 of 35
De Weerd: I think an hour is probably sufficient to kind of determine. So if we
start at 6:00 and have regular agenda start at 7:00, that gives us some play and
a better idea of how to we need to adjust after a certain period of time, if needed.
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I don't remember specifically, but my recollection in the Boise City Code,
only the regular meeting of the Council is in the ordinance. The Pre-Council isn't
always at the same time. Sometimes it starts at 5:00, sometimes it's 6:30. So
there isn't anything-it's noticed that it's a public meeting but it isn't referenced in
there. I don't know that it's required to be in there but regular meeting does. By
State statute, I think it's required that there be notice when the regular meeting is.
That may be something Mr. Nichols can look at and if we want to model that, we
certainly can. The other thing, and maybe this isn't good timing, but if we're
going to change the ordinance anyway, one thing we may also want to look at, if
we noticed over time, not like we want to cancel a lot of meetings, but there are
occasions that sometimes try to move those meetings to Wednesday after
holidays and things like that. Sometimes it can be very cumbersome. My only
concern is that sometimes the public doesn't realize that. You know, when you
meet on Tuesday every week except the week of Christmas and (inaudible) set
this week of Thanksgiving and you meet on a different day or whatever it is or
you meet after a three day week-end and those kind of things. One of the things
in the ordinance for Boise it says, unless it's canceled. There's an opportunity for
the Council to announce prior that they're not going to hold the Council meeting
on a particular day. The ordinance speaks of that so that gives-and Meridian
always does that.
Corrie: It does on Election Day.
Nary: Right. They can if there's not a quorum, you can always cancel a meeting
as well. That might be something to look at too. We've had occasions where it
said it's cumbersome sometimes to change that to another day or it actually
throws the public off and I just don't want to-if you're going to look at the
ordinance, you can certainly look at that as well. I'm not saying we have to do
that but just something to think about.
De Weerd: Would you like to then direct our City Attorney to include that in the
update?
Nary: Well, I don't know what everyone thinks as to whether or not to at least
give that option that if we wanted to-right now we really don't have authority
under our own ordinance to cancel the meeting four months from now on a
Tuesday because we know it's not available. There might may be a sense to put
that in the ordinance to at least allow that flexibility. We don't have to cancel but
at least it gives flexibility. I think it makes sense but I don't know what everyone
else thinks.
Meridian City Council
May 14, 2002 Strategic Planning Session /Workshop
Page 15 of 35
De Weerd: Mr. Nichols, is that something we could include in that update?
Nichols: Madam President. We will certainly look and see what we can come up
with.
(inaudible)
De Weerd: So let's hurry and do it before August so we're above board. Okay.
Thank you. Okay. Item Number Six. So, staff, did you get that, that we're going
to try Pre-Council and see how this works. We'll be doing the ordinance and it
probably won't take effect for another month or two but by then we should have a
definite format. Okay.
Issue No.6 Proposed Joint July Chamber Business After Hours I
Volunteer Appreciation BBQ
De Weerd: Now that's something that Tom was asked at our April meeting to
follow up with. His son was getting an award tonight and he couldn't be here. I
did get an update or a memo from the Chamber. They understood that we'd like
to consider doing our volunteer event at the same time and that there was a
concern about the Thursday night date because of the Planning and Zoning
Commission and their meeting. Terri let me know that she didn't have a problem
doing it on Wednesday, July 1 ih so it wouldn't conflict with the Planning and
Zoning meeting. They haven't gotten anything firm but the job corps has verified
a per person cost of $3.00 to $4.00 a person. The only caveat would be that they
need an advance count so they know how much food to prepare.
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: What day is the Parks Commission meeting?
De Weerd: The Parks Commission meeting is during our workshop, which is
July 9th, I believe.
Nary: I just didn't want to conflict because I knew that they met on Wednesdays.
De Weerd: This is the third Wednesday. Well, no, that would be the second
Wednesday, wouldn't it? (inaudible) Okay. We're meeting with them on the 9th
with the park tour and joint meeting and who knows, we may not even have a
meeting that night in addition to that. Does that sound like something we want to
go ahead and do? Go ahead and ask our citizen committees, our traffic safety,
our fence committee, all of the various citizens committees to join us for that
volunteer appreciation? (inaudible) Well, that was a look of enthusiasm, sure
was. Okay. Issue Number 7.
Meridian City Council
May 14, 2002 Strategic Planning Session /Workshop
Page 16 of 35
New Business:
Issue No.7 Weapons in the Workplace Ordinance - Pauline Skeggs
De Weerd: Pauline, thanks for sticking with this. Weapons in the Workplace. I
was just real interested to know I can carry a concealed weapon. I need to tell
my husband what I want for my birthday now.
McCandless: Don't even need a permit.
(inaudible)
Skeggs: Madam President, City Council Members and Mayor. I was asked to
draw up a policy on weapons. I drafted the policy. I gave it to Department
Heads on April 23rd. I had asked for their feedback and comments to me by May
10th. In the Department Head meeting May ih, Mayor Corrie extended that to
June 4th because Department Heads had been working on the budget so I
haven't gotten any feedback. The feedback I did get was from Bill Nichols and
he had recommended since City Officials are allowed to carry concealed
weapons to remove City Officials from the policy. Also, because individuals they
do hunting and other things will carry weapons in their vehicles so therefore to
put it as they can carry have a weapon in their vehicle they just can't bring it on to
City property.
McCandless: They can have in the parking.
Skeggs: Yes. They can have it in the parking lot in their car. They just can't
bring it inside City facilities.
Corrie: Madam Chairman, if I might add that it said under 3-B, any firearm
possession if the person has received prior written authorization from the City
Police Chief to possess the firearm while in City facilities, I don't think the Police
Chief has that authority does he, Bill. He can't do that.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor, I didn't bring my file with me but I think the issue is
whether-I think it's clear the Police Chief can not issue concealed weapons
permit but this may cover someone who has a weapon that is not concealed.
Corrie: Okay. I questioned that and I said I'd bring it up and see (inaudible) -
Nichols: I don't know. I can't add to the circumstance. Perhaps somebody has
some display they want to bring in or something or some demonstration.
Bird: That could affect that. (inaudible)
Nichols: I think it kind of gives you some flexibility to have somebody look at it.
Maybe Captain Musser has some comment. (inaudible) The Police Chief can't
issue concealed weapon permits but there might be an instance where-I
suppose under this policy, for example, an armor who brings a brace or brand
Meridian City Council
May 14, 2002 Strategic Planning Session /Workshop
Page 17 of 35
spanking new Smith & Wesson 240 semi-automatic weapons to the Police
Department to show them the latest and greatest would violate that policy unless
the Chief had given permission.
Musser: Madam President and Mayor.
Corrie: You're going to have to come over here, Bill.
Musser: As another point on that, we do occasionally as a department use the
facilities out at the Water Treatment Plant for firearm decision making, which
does involve us having actual firearms out there even though they're rendered
safely, using a light emitting ray when we're going through a firearms training
simulator. That's outside the purview of normal Police Department training but
we have used it. Usually, that's a contact that's made by the Chief with John out
there to make sure we can do it and it's not going to interfere with anything. We
schedule when we're going to do it. That would be one instance where I see that
we might have a problem (inaudible) the Chief to authorize that type of training.
As far as any other types of weapons or anything, nothing else really comes to
mind right off hand that might fall into that other than we do have salesmen come
in and we just-as a matter of fact, I met two of them yesterday from territorial
that came in with a bunch of new weapons to show us. The only other option
would be, if we're talking weapons in the workplace doesn't necessarily refer
specifically to firearms as being the only weapon. There's potentially knives or
other personal protection type items like (inaudible) pepper spray, that type of
thing or even electronic shock type instruments, which for some reason or other,
depending on what we have going on or something down the road, we may have
potential need to look at through the individual departments for whatever reason.
We may have somebody there or we may be providing training or self-defense
situation or something for City employees. That would be the only other thing I
could think of that we might be considering.
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: We've been wrestling with this issue with the City of Boise for a long time.
There is a preemptive statute in the state. Idaho is probably one of the most
liberal of carrying of firearms laws in the country. People can carry open firearms
on the street in Idaho, which they can't do in most other states. We've wrestled
with this with the City of Boise for the exact same reason, and I'm not saying I'm
not supportive of the idea. What I'm saying is, I'm sure there is legal authority to
do this in this manner like this. I read Mr. Nichols memo in reference to the
courthouse. There is an exemption in the State Law that allows County Court
facilities and the County Commissioners didn't have the authority to prohibit
weapons in the courthouse. Judge Williamson (inaudible) Not because of the
commissioners. City of Boise used to have a guns in public buildings ordinance
which is preempted by the State Statute. We've had people carrying guns in the
parks in Boise, which we attempted to prohibit but the preempted statute applies.
Meridian City Council
May 14, 2002 Strategic Planning Session /Workshop
Page 18 of 35
The cities doesn't make any law that will prohibit the carrying of firearms beyond
the (inaudible) State Code. So I don't know that we really have the authority as
extensive as we'd like it to be. We can require employees, I think. If an
employee has a valid concealed weapons permit, there is a presumption in the
State Law that says they can carry it. I don't think anybody-I hope no one else
here has ever dealt with Daniel L. J. Adams who's running for Governor. We
have dealt with him extensively. He carries a gun everywhere he goes and we
have had problems with him in our parks and in the buildings in the City because
that State statute is difficult to work around. I think we can require the Police to
report it that they have them. I think in certain situations, because of safety, they
have to figure out how to deal with that in the workplace to provide a safe work
environment. I'm not positive that we can fight policy simply to create that you
can't have a weapon on City property anywhere when a person has a valid
permit to carry one or in a state you're not required to have one. So, I guess, I'm
a little concerned about the policy because I'm not sure that legally, if challenged,
that we can support it. I like having something. I think it's an important thing but
I don't know whether or not we can support it if challenged by someone else.
Someone outside the City. Certainly, an employee, we can certainly require they
report it to us. There may be circumstances of limiting access to the building with
that. That hasn't been a significant problem. Members of the public, it's a little
tougher. It's tougher to deal with and you will get people-the people that push
this envelop generally know that that State statute is supreme for this. So I think
we're going to have a problem enforcing policy in (inaudible) general public. We
don't have an ordinance to support that so I don't think we can.
De Weerd: But these are weapons in the workplace so it-
Nary: This applies to everybody.
Bird: It applies to everybody. Is it enforceable, Bill?
Musser: Council Member Bird, to be honest, I didn't-now that Council Member
Nary said it, I do recall there's a statute but I didn't look it up (inaudible). Part of
that was I was primarily focusing on (inaudible) lawsuit over whether an
employee should have been terminated where there was allegedly shooting of
some sort or potentially discharging a firearm on a City premise. So I think-
Nary: I'm not so sure that we can't (inaudible) if they're not carrying a weapon
(inaudible) I don't know. It could be that we're allowed to do some things in the
employment context. Perhaps how existing people that are already here that are
employees (inaudible) We could certainly look at it (inaudible) statute (inaudible)
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Bill, I had an instance to concealed weapons permits (inaudible) I could not
do anything about it. I did not like them having them carry it in a fanny pack, to
carry it in their trucks, wherever they went. I couldn't do a thing about it. That's
Meridian City Council
May 14, 2002 Strategic Planning Session /Workshop
Page 19 of 35
what I'm saying. If we can't enforce it, like Mr. Nary said, I really -I couldn't -I
mean -
Corrie: This maybe perhaps to follow the point. The statute applies to firearms.
So you couldn't have the policy apply to everything but.
Nary: The statute says concealed weapons. That's about weapons in general.
It doesn't talk about munitions. So, in regards to firearms, you could certainly
prohibit, and there's nothing in the statute that prohibits ammunition on the City
facility. That doesn't deal with (inaudible) spray. It doesn't deal with knives and
other things. But that's certainly a tool to use that. It sounds kind of goofy but
you certainly have the ability to limit that. At least it lessons, creates some less
of a risk but, like I've said, we've wrestled with this issue a lot. There's 1300
employees and we've wrestled with this issue occasionally. I'm not sure in your
situation but (inaudible) cities can't create a law-
Bird: We were governed under another city law.
Nary: Oh, I see. But, otherwise - that's my only concern. I guess (inaudible) I'm
not sure that we can but I'm not sure that we can't. I don't want to pass
something (inaudible)
Bird: That's the thing that scares me that we might pass something that we can't
enforce (inaudible) against the State statute (inaudible)
De Weerd: Captain Musser.
Musser: Madam President, Mayor and Members of the Council. My suggestion
would be possibly to look at rewording the ordinance to incorporate the
unnecessary brandishing or display or unlawful carrying of weapons in the
workplace. If they're lawfully carrying a concealed weapons permit, then we
don't want to necessarily look at that. We don't have to worry about it. But, if
they're unlawfully carrying it or unnecessarily display or brandish, even with a
concealed weapons permit, they don't have the right to be displaying it or waving
it around and we have specific statutes that encompass an assault or
unnecessary display in that instance. Perhaps we'd be better off to look at an
ordinance that would encompass that type of wording because it would become
enforceable both from a criminal standpoint and also from civil standpoint when
we're looking at employee termination and that type of thing.
Bird: Good idea.
McCandless: Madam President?
De Weerd: Cherie.
McCandless: Another thing I thought about was, say hypothetically a person is
working late, particularly maybe a woman and she's got pepper spray in her
Meridian City Council
May 14, 2002 Strategic Planning Session /Workshop
Page 20 of 35
purse and she feels safer walking out to her car in the parking lot with it there.
Now she had that in the workplace. But, it would be unreasonable to say that
she couldn't have it in there if that was her situation.
De Weerd: Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: (inaudible) Distinction could be made between lethal and non-lethal.
Pepper spray is an item of protection but it's non-lethal protection. I think part of
the concern with violence in the workplace is to try to avoid serious and bodily
harm or permanent injury, death, mass killings,(inaudible) type. That's why
(inaudible) firearms issue, (inaudible) way of dealing with that. (inaudible) it's not
like Columbine (inaudible)we can look at something(inaudible)
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I meant to tonight and I forgot but I will forward to both the (inaudible) and
Mr. Nichols the draft for workplace violence policy that we've been working on for
the City of Boise. I (inaudible) doing that. There is some information that might
be helpful in putting this together too so I'll forward that to them tomorrow.
De Weerd: Yes. Thank you. Pauline, has this been helpful?
Skeggs: It has. I drafted it because I was asked. I didn't know the laws and
rules. (inaudible) feedback from Department Heads initially before we sent it to
legal. The Mayor had given to somebody (inaudible) to have this discussion. I
wasn't aware of it. I didn't know. (inaudible) California and California can't
(inaudible)
Corrie: It falls in defense, just as Councilman Nary pointed out. We have
perhaps the most liberal weapons carrying law that there is. A lot of people really
raise their eyebrows at it from other states because a lot of other states can
restrict it on that basis but we don't have that luxury.
De Weerd: Well, good. I'm sure we'll be seeing it on the agenda in the near
future. I appreciate you bringing this forward. Thank you. Okay, issue number
eight, City Web Site.
Issue No.8 City Web Site
Corrie: Do you want me to handle that?
De Weerd: Yes, please.
Corrie: Okay. I had a meeting with Chief Worley. Some of the departments I've
talked to haven't updated their web page because they said there's only eight
Meridian City Council
May 14, 2002 Strategic Planning Session /Workshop
Page 21 of 35
hours in a day and too busy. I told them we're going to go about this two
different ways. One is we'll let them work nine hours for eight hours time and get
it done. The other, I think it was brought up by a couple of departments, that they
were looking at having a little more flexibility in doing their web page rather than
the format that we have here. We have unlimited space that they can work with
but in talking to Mike, he had a, what do you call it, front page similar to Boise's
where they can come to our web site, come down to the Police Department,
when they hit that button, it automatically goes to the Police Department's
www.Meridianpolicepd , and it doesn't come back that way if they do it. It comes
back to our web site if somebody hits that number. In other words, it gives him
more opportunity to work on a different format, template, so to speak and he can
put more things in there and do what he wants to do but it doesn't interfere with
the web site that we have. We can't interfere with the Fire Department or P & Z
and what have you. So right now we're in the discussion with Fiber Pipe to see if
we can't get this offset page, where they have the buttons and take probably an
hours time to get that straightened out as far as Fiber Pipe is concerned but it will
give them more flexibility of what they want. The Fire Department has also
talked to me. They have somebody that wants to work on their web page free of
charge. What we will be doing is going from that button to their front page type
thing where they can do what they want to with their own template or format. It
will not interfere with our web page but it will get them to theirs easily and they
can do things that they can't do with ours. Ours is going to be limited. It's the
perfect find for about three quarters of our department but three quarters of our
departments haven't done anything yet. The Police Department has. Human
Resources has done a very good job. P & Z, Parks and City Clerks office. Now
if they're not on that list, they're the ones that I'm talking to again. Just to give
you a site, that we talked with Terry and the Chief has come with the (inaudible)
format so he is the front page. We're working that in to Fiber Pipe. They can do
it and give him his own template (inaudible) When we come in on the web page
of the City, they get one web page that they can go into different departments.
They can have special buttons. When they push Human Resources, they'll go
either right to what Resource wants to do on ours or it can go to their template
that they've done. If they come back and say like,
www.meridianfiredepartment.orq, they punch that, it will automatically to our web
page site. Then it'll go down to the Fire Department and they hit that and it goes
(inaudible) So, we don't get confused. We'll have consistency throughout the
whole site. I called Mike in today. We had a lunch at 11 :30 and we talked until
1 :00 and he came in at 10:00 so I apologized for his lunch. Anyway, we got that
pretty well straightened out and I think you're going to see that that's going to
work out a lot better. I talked to Terry and we can load that right in to it. Setting
up with Fiber Pipe now, I think he's doing that. Some viruses can be detected
from other cities. We've have found out already. Our fire wall has caught that
and we want to make sure that that doesn't compromise what we're trying to do
with our own city web page. So, we're working on that. Then we'll set the
expectation of the departments on what we want on a web page and we'll go with
that. I realize there's some impatience with the web page and it's not going
anywhere but it's two-fold. One is some of the departments are not doing it and
Meridian City Council
May 14, 2002 Strategic Planning Session /Workshop
Page 22 of 35
they need to do it and the other is that some departments need a little more and
we're going to give them that opportunity.
Bird: What is our web page? www. What? I can't get into it half the time.
Corrie: www.ci.meridian.id.us or www.meridiancitv.orq. We've got that and
we've also got some others(inaudible)
Bird: Because I've had-I thought I had it and I don't get it.
McCandless: I've got it written down at home.
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Another thing to look at, because I know you don't always have money to
spend on these types of things but something that may be looked at maybe by
Terry, is something that can be done through an internship program. There are
computer classes at the high school as well as internship programs through
Boise State that you can have people that have that knowledge and expertise
that can work on this as part of the program at school so it's not a cost of
anything to the City. Actually, the students get a credit. There's lots of these
companies out there, there's zillions of them, that do web page design. I know
there's people that I'm going to guess that go to school to learn to be web page
designers, to do that for a living. So there may be opportunities that Terry can
look into that, again, will be minimal to no cost for the City to do and get people-
because one of the things that, at least, I see and certainly the web periodically,
is if you have a very static page that doesn't change, it tends to get ignored after
a while. If we wanted to be active and interactive and things and we want to
have it available, someone's got to update that periodically. It just can't be the
same page every day. (inaudible) expensive proposition to hire a person whose
job is to do that but we might be able to do something through an internship,
things like that that somebody just oversees the product who have actually other
people doing it as part of a program for a class or something.
De Weerd: Or someone that would take it on as a business sponsor to do even
the event page. It drives me nuts to go into a calendar and see that nothing's
happening in the (inaudible)
Corrie: My calendar doesn't even work.
(inaudible)
Corrie: I did talk to Chief also that we're talking very minimal on the copy for the
front page. It's about, to license, $100.00. (inaudible) be involved in that right
now. Again, our web page is very adequate. It's unlimited but they just haven't
done it. We've got a couple three people that are pretty good at web page. Mike
Meridian City Council
May 14, 2002 Strategic Planning Session /Workshop
Page 23 of 35
is one of them. Human Resources does an excellent job and so does Parks. If
we look at theirs, they keep it up pretty close. And others, and you're absolutely
right. If you look at it a couple three times, nothing changes.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor, it's just such a valuable tool and we kind of discussed this
briefly last month. It's everyone's first impression of the City coming in whether
it's a business or a person that's looking at moving into our community. If it's a
citizen that is signing for the first time, this is their first impression of how the City
functions. In the past, it's been a very negative experience. I think our staff does
some phenomenal things and that's not reflected in this book. I know there's
great potential that if kept up to date to really eliminate some staff time in building
applications and answering questions on policies because it can be right there on
the web. The receptionist can refer them to a web site and if not, then you're
only doing it for a few people that don't have computer access. It's a great tool
that has great potential. It's just not being utilized. That's really something in our
budget process that if they don't have it, budget for it because it's one of those
things that we really need to have accessible to our citizens.
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Just to give you a snapshot of that. I'm not one hundred percent positive
of the number, but it was just recently that I was in a training event that the City
of Boise web site get over three million hits a year on that web site. That means
there is a lot of people out there in the world looking at these things. As you just
said, attracting people to our community, attracting people who live here and
want to work here and those kind of things. That's a great tool. Maybe,
partnering with the Chamber or a group like that would be another method to,
again, help alleviate some cost and it provides (inaudible) interaction on the
community.
De Weerd: It's a great customer service tool for reducing time worked for Will's
office and finding minutes or public documents to developers trying to find out
where their application is in the process. A number of things.
Corrie: It's just a matter of time in getting it put on there. That's exactly right.
Madam President, if I might. We touched on it earlier today but there's a House
Bill. It has nothing to do with this but there's a bill going through Congress right
now, or trying to get through, where they tack on five cents for every e-mail you
get because the post office (inaudible) post office. I'll send you that statement
that I got. It was pretty scary. (inaudible) Every time you e-mail somebody, it
costs them a nickel. (inaudible) And when you receive an e-mail, it costs you a
nickel. That's ten cents. Just to kind of give you something think about. The
Post Office is not making any money. If you guys want that, I'll send it to you too.
De Weerd: Are they (inaudible)
Meridian City Council
May 14, 2002 Strategic Planning Session /Workshop
Page 24 of 35
Corrie: Yes. No. Well. (inaudible) Is that what you need (inaudible)
De Weerd: Yes. Thank you. Okay. Item Number Nine. Tom Kuntz and Keith
Bird.
Issue No.9 Discussion of Settlers Park Change Order Request - Tom
Kuntz
Bird: These are just some Change Order requests. Tammy and I had met with
Tom and he's just going to bring them forward at the next meeting. They're just
change orders (inaudible) you guys can look them over. The Parks and Rec
Commission-let them know we're-and they've got some very good construction
people that I felt that all the prices were within line. I told Tom there's no reason
to discuss it. Just bring it forward like Gary does on his and we'll talk to Mayor
and find out where to put it. It can be on the Consent Agenda, as far as I'm
concerned.
De Weerd: Any questions?
Nary: Madam President. I was just going to say how Tom isn't here but I mean
he did a very good job in detailing it out here. My first impression was this larger
increased cost. He explained it very well. (inaudible) I agree with Mr. Bird.
Bird: The only thing we asked for Tom to do, he's going to back and tend to the
contract and if they've got a certain percent of markup in profit, then they've got
to itemize it. I've had to do that a lot of times in my work, like you know, material
is this much, labor is this much, ten percent overhead, five percent profit.
(inaudible) I think it's very good. He did a very nice job on that.
De Weerd: Yes, he did. Will you share that (inaudible)? Okay. Item Number
Ten. I'll let Cherie take this one.
Issue No.1 0 Fence Committee Member Representation Requirement
- Cherie McCandless
McCandless: This is about the Fence Committee that has been in existence for
a long, long time, I don't know how long, in this format. There's been some
dissention among the members, not dissention but complaining among the
members. This time of year, we had meetings almost every Wednesday.
They're at 4:30 in the afternoon. City Council, for one, has been meeting on
Wednesday evenings. We have a Police representative, Lt. Bowman, myself
and the Council, Keith Borup from Planning and Zoning and, of course, Gary
Smith, who is the chairman of it. In talking, some of us had discussed it and it
seemed to me that we could use maybe a hearing officer because most of these
applications are no brainers. The want the fence ten feet instead of twenty feet
in and if they don't block traffic or block the view, there's no reason why they
can't have it. Most of them are just sitting there and saying sure. I was talking to
Keith just before the meeting tonight, Keith Borup, and -all right, you guys-Keith
Meridian City Council
May 14, 2002 Strategic Planning Session /Workshop
Page 25 of 35
feels the same way. Gary, have you got anything to add to that? If there's a
conflict and we've had about two in the two years I've been on it, it could come
before the Councilor we could convene the Fence Committee to take care of
that.
De Weerd: Gary, do you have any thoughts?
Smith: Madam President, Mayor and Council. We've talked about this several
times and Cherie is right that most of these applications that we've received are
non-controversial, I guess you could say. They don't impact sight distance.
They don't impact-that's one of our primary concerns is safety for the traveling
public and vehicles and plus pedestrians moving down the sidewalk and their
safety on driveways, vehicles out of the driveways. Very rare exception as a
committee, a very rare exception do we have any problems with the requests.
As a committee, we have pretty much steadfastly held a maximum of ten foot
infringement into the setback area. We maintain a ten-foot distance from the
back of the sidewalk to the fence. I've instructed-in fact I've sent a memo some
years ago to the City Clerk's office to just instruct them to tell the applicants that if
they didn't feel they could live with ten feet, they probably should forego the
request because the committee has not been approving a variance staying to
any greater degree. So, generally speaking, when they come in, that's all they're
looking for, is a ten foot setback. We'd have to change the ordinance because it
does speak to how this Fence Committee operates. So, that would require an
ordinance to change. In terms of having one individual look at it, I don't think
that's a problem based on what we've seen for applications.
De Weerd: So-
Smith: I think Councilman Bird sat on that committee for a long time. It's the
same all the years that we've sat on it. Now, I'm not sure what the legalities of all
this is as far as who would do this and how it would be structured (inaudible) I
don't know. Again, a single person could be designated to look at this. I suspect
that if legal that we can do that, then if there's an appeal if a decision doesn't go
the direction the applicant wants it to go, then, of course, it's appealed to the
Council as variances present on all of them.
De Weerd: Mr. Nichols, is that something that you could look into, if we could
replace the committee with a hearing officer and write an appeals process into
this? Well, there is an appeal process.
Nichols: Madam President. We can certainly look into it (inaudible) done by the
Zoning Administer or his/her designated (inaudible) as a staff level decision
(inaudible) I'm not aware of a State Statue so that you can have a variance
(inaudible) not treated as a setback area (inaudible)
Smith: We're just limited in the setback issue with a six-foot tall fence. Our other
fence heights, depending on whether they're an open fence or a closed fence,
Meridian City Council
May 14, 2002 Strategic Planning Session /Workshop
Page 26 of 35
they can run those out to the sidewalk. The six-foot closed fence, by ordinance,
requires a variance if it sets in the setback area.
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I guess one of the things I would suggest in doing this is, variance has
some other definitions in the City Code as well as the State Code and it has
some particular findings that are necessary to grant a variance. I don't know that
those findings necessarily are what was intended by this ordinance so if we're
going to redraft the ordinance, we may want to consider it to be a fence
exception or something else, some other term so it's not confused or find some
(inaudible) reason they can't have it or something like that. This is kind of a
goofy committee (inaudible) it's not goofy, it's how it's designed (inaudible) Since
the Zoning Administrator sends out notices-
De Weerd: The newest member is supposed to serve on that.
Nary: The Zoning Administrator sends out a notice and then the City Engineer
and the Police Chief, not a designee, but the Police Chief is supposed to sit on
that, one Council Member and a Planning and Zoning Commission member, I
guess. It doesn't make any sense as to why they (inaudible) do this in 1990. I
think we should have one person. It's fine for me if the Zoning Director or
designee to make that decision. Has there been much public response when
you send out these notices?
Bird: Oh, heavens no.
De Weerd: Half the time, they don't even show up.
Nary: I wouldn't think so. So to me, I think you could-I mean, whether you
send the notice out is fine but I think having one person make the decision and
they can appeal it to the Commission or the Council, is fine with me. In just
looking at it, I'm not sure what they were thinking back in 1990, but it doesn't
make really a lot of sense how this is structured. It makes sense to me to get rid
of it and call it something else. Fence exceptions or whatever. I think having the
Zoning Department do that makes the most sense to me. They're the ones
looking at what was decided by the plat or cited on the Council's decision
(inaudible) I think that makes sense. I didn't think the people were strange. I
meant the process was strange.
(inaudible)
De Weerd: We know what you meant.
McCandless: Mr. Nary, I won't be at the meeting tomorrow.
Meridian City Council
May 14, 2002 Strategic Planning Session /Workshop
Page 27 of 35
(inaudible)
McCandless: I won't be there because we're having a City Council meeting and
1-
De Weerd: So, Council, our direction to the attorney is to look at this ordinance
and update with a hearing officer and rename it?
Nary: I wouldn't say a hearing officer. I'd just said the Zoning Director designee
or something like that unless Mrs. Stiles has a concern about time or being able
to do that. If a hearing officer-
De Weerd: She wasn't even on it to begin with.
Nary: The hearing officer just makes it sound like it's a detached person from the
process and it's not. It's going to be somebody that's a staff member. It's not a
separate party or a third or a neutral party or anything like that. It's somebody
else that's already on the staff.
(inaudible)
Nary: And the Public Works Director is fine too.
Bird: Yes, I was going to say, it doesn't matter.
***End of Side Two***
(inaudible)
Bird: I can tell you one thing. You get to know the City. They get you In
something, place back there you've never seen or heard of before.
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: As long as in the ordinance it's clear who they apply to and who's going to
make a decision and how long maybe it's going to be, I think the rest of it's fine. I
think that's fine. That's all I think the public, you know, in the natural process, I
think that's fine.
De Weerd: Mr. Nichols, do you have enough to go forward with that?
Nichols: Yes.
De Weerd: Thank you. Issue Number 11. Mayor's report. Shall we keep it at
ten seconds or-(inaudible) Mrs. Stiles, do you have something?
Meridian City Council
May 14, 2002 Strategic Planning Session /Workshop
Page 28 of 35
Stiles: I just thought on that that we could also maybe put something in the
ordinance (inaudible) variance (inaudible) where they can have (inaudible)
setback -
Nichols: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Madam President. I don't have a problem with that but I don't have the
expertise to do that so you're going to have to take the existing fence ordinance
and mark it up and say we want to change these things or we want to plug in this
exception if they do ten foot in setbacks. From my standpoint, the quick fix of the
problem of who's going to do it, I can do that reasonably quickly. The other issue
is going to take longer. There maybe the Council wants to look at that as a
cleanup item but we can put into the pipeline that it sounds like this is one that
needs to be fixed.
McCandless: Yes. Mayor and President. Just because we say it can be ten feet
back doesn't necessarily mean it can. It depends on whether the visibility is not
there or whatever. So, it can't be just standard. (inaudible) Yes.
Smith: Madam President. I think so because one of the biggest concerns that
we have is from the adjoining neighbor being able to, and the location of their
garage and driveway to the setback on this exception request allowing them to
back out of their garage and driveway and being able to see pedestrians on the
sidewalk. If that garage is located tight against that property line, to which they
want to extend their six-foot fence and that should not be approved.
McCandless: That's correct.
Smith: Then it requires a side-
Bird: You've got to have a side (inaudible) regardless.
De Weerd: Sorry, Cherie.
Bird: Cherie knows the town real well.
De Weerd: Okay, Mr. Mayor. Sorry about that.
Issue No. 11
Mayor's Report
Corrie: Okay. I had eight items. I'm down to three. I'll get to those in another
meeting. (inaudible) One of the things that ACHD, this park and ride lot down by
Gold's Gym. I checked with Cherie and ACHD still hasn't done anything. Am I
right Cherie, on that?
McCandless: Right.
Meridian City Council
May 14, 2002 Strategic Planning Session /Workshop
Page 29 of 35
Corrie: Okay. Cherie and I are going to get together and draft a letter that will go
to the Commissioners or the staff. We're not getting anything through staff so
we're not talking to Jay Schweitzer. He's well aware of what's happening so I
think we're going to get their attention with that one. Another thing, ACHD, does
anyone remember where that apartments were going in there at Locust Grove
and Franklin? Okay. ACHD bought that land at a $125,000 an acre. It's going
to be an area for, what was that, (inaudible) and I asked Cherie about that and I
don't think we were informed about that. So, they spent a half a million dollars
buying that. That's going to be on our agenda. Anita's getting that one put
together and then it's going to be questioned immediately.
De Weerd: Can we kind of renegotiate that $800,000 for the (inaudible)?
(inaudible amongst Council)
Bird: I suppose that's part of our reinvestment in Meridian, Idaho.
(inaudible)
De Weerd: I don't think Woodbridge will be all that thrilled.
Corrie: I don't think they'll be thrilled at all but anyway, I thought that would bring
your level of attention back up. We are going to bring the Code Enforcement that
we have a (inaudible) that said that we're going to be working on for the signage
of (inaudible) town. We'll be working with Bill Nichols on that one to change
perhaps the either the ordinance or see what the sign ordinance says about
making that an illegal signs around town. I just passed out that delinquent
account collection and I want you to take a look at that. I'm going to put it on the
Consent Agenda Tuesday and if you don't have any problems with it then we'll
go ahead and proceed with that collection. The other item, I've talked with
Christine Donnell in relationship to our parks and our schools and hook them
together. I think we have pretty well come to some agreements of what we
would like to do in partnerships. The 28th, we're having a meeting with the five of
her people, including Wendell and her and Tom and the Director of the sports on
all the fields and also the schools. We're going to try to see if we can grab a
procedure that the schools would follow about using school properties and who
makes those decisions. I think it would be a lot smoother. We both came to the
conclusion that there's a lot of misunderstanding between our staff and their staff
and was getting a little bit out of hand, so they're having a meeting with them. In
our meeting we had this morning, actually this afternoon, went very well. So I
think we're going to get way past what we had before. There was a
misunderstanding. They thought that we, of the 56 or 58 acre park, that we
wanted to change the size of their parking lot and where the school was going to
go and so we got that letter back, well, if you want to do that, you have to pay for
the architecting, and we both just sat there and rolled our eyes and where did
that come from. So that's some of the things that's going back and forth. The
power company requests a change to the Camp Plan. I believe we'll look at that
Meridian City Council
May 14, 2002 Strategic Planning Session /Workshop
Page 30 of 35
as well. Dawneen Blakesley, she's still with us, she's about finished but she
would like to have a time in June to meet with all the Council and the Mayor on
the Executive Session. I think, if you would like, we could set that up just ahead
of the workshop, if you like. She needs two hours. She's got -
De Weerd: Can I do that at the first meeting because I won't be here?
Corrie: Sure. You can do it anytime you want. I forgot about you not being here.
We'll just the first available-- the fourth. Okay. Is the fourth all right? We'll have
to do it by about 4:30 and then we can have, the fourth at 4:30, then, again, we're
two hours to talk with her before the meeting. I think that's all I had right now.
I've got some other things but we can cover that at another meeting.
McCandless: That's good news about the school.
Corrie: Yes. (inaudible) Idaho Power (inaudible)
De Weerd: (inaudible) the staff meeting, I know that Wastewater and Waters
annual picnic is June 21 S\ so this is a calendar item. We talked about doing
something for the Dairy Days Parade. Does Council still want to do that? That's
June 21 st.
McCandless: No more elves.
De Weerd: It's not seasonal. It's more heifers.
(inaudible)
McCandless: I'm not going with you this time.
De Weerd: Okay, jerseys.
Bird: Isn't that a cowboy theme when you wear cow hats and cowboy-
organizers just tell me when to be there and what to bring.
De Weerd: Do you know anyone who has a wagon?
Bird: Sure we can find a wagon. What kind of wagon do you want?
De Weerd: Just one that would be pulled by horses that we could ride on the
back of.
Bird: You got some horses?
De Weerd: No. Do you know anyone who has horses?
(inaudible)
Meridian City Council
May 14, 2002 Strategic Planning Session /Workshop
Page 31 of 35
Bird: My grandkids got one of those little red wagons we can pull you two
around.
McCandless: Us two in a little red wagon. I don't think so.
De Weerd: Well, it's on the 21st and I don't get back until the 18th so it's going to
have to be up to you guys.
Bird: Cherie's in charge.
McCandless: What????
Bird: She's the Vice-President.
Nary: It's June 21 st. That's a Friday.
Bird: Yes. It's on Friday night. You'll be out of town.
De Weerd: You're always out of town.
Nary: So you're going to be appearing by satellite.
Bird: I'd have probably a better chance of getting five riding than saddle horses
we could ride.
De Weerd: Can someone get a hold of the Dairy Days for (inaudible)
McCandless: Usually the Dairy Board.
De Weerd: Can you get a hold of the Board and let them know we want to be in
the parade?
(inaudible)
De Weerd: We're going to be a float in the parade. Extend an offer to all
departments to participate. We won't give you over-time but we'll have a fun
time.
(inaudible)
Bird: Are we going to make a float?
De Weerd: Keith knows someone with horses and a wagon. I was talking about
a wagon not a Red Rider.
Bird: I've got one of those. My grandkids got one of those little red wagons with
the cargo thing. They got their little thing up like this.
Meridian City Council
May 14, 2002 Strategic Planning Session /Workshop
Page 32 of 35
De Weerd: Okay. The AFC meeting is on the 25th. Has everyone turned in their
things to Will?
Nary: Yes
(inaudible)
De Weerd: I need new (inaudible)
Nary: I was going to say, Wednesday morning is your golf tournament.
Wednesday morning, first thing in the morning. I don't know what you want to
do.
(inaudible)
Nary: I think you have some board meetings Wednesday afternoon, don't you?
Corrie: Yes.
Nary: I think it officially kicks off the next morning. Thursday. The other
question is, if you're-I think Anita--we reserved or made reservations to get
Tuesday night because we didn't know and so we to know when you're going to
go down so we can cancel that Tuesday night. If you're not-
Bird: If I'm going to golf in the morning, I've got to go down Tuesday night.
Nary: The other thing is about the Tuesday night meeting. Is it going to be short
one, it's the fourth Tuesday?
Corrie: We'll just make it short. I'll put the agenda very, very short. Like two
items and roll call-
Bird: And get out of there.
McCandless: And adjournment.
Bird: And have the wife ready and just head out.
Corrie: There's nothing, no land use items on that-
Nary: We usually have a lot of department reports that-
McCandless: I'll probably want to ride with somebody because Glen can't go.
Nary: Madam President. Can't we just, since we don't have the means to cancel
the meeting, but we have the means to reschedule the meeting, can't we
reschedule the meeting on Monday? Just have it on Monday. We have it on
Meridian City Council
May 14, 2002 Strategic Planning Session /Workshop
Page 33 of 35
Wednesday, so can't we have it on Monday and then not have to worry about
Tuesday night trying to leave after 7:00 at night and drive-
Corrie: I can look and see what we have scheduled here.
De Weerd: Can't we update our ordinance because-
Bird: No. We'll be all right. We can do that.
Nary: But if we do it Monday, then at least, if we had anything, we can get it
done and we can leave Tuesday anytime we want.
De Weerd: That's a good-that's an excellent idea. Councilman Nary, you are a
sharp person. Okay. So, Cherie's going to run the June workshop. So
Department Heads make sure that, well, Cherie and I will still meet and set the
agenda but make sure you get your items to Cherie.
(inaudible)
De Weerd: In June. Cherie McCandless. I'm sorry. June 22nd is our budget
hearing. We need to set July workshop date. August 22nd, sorry.
(inaudible)
De Weerd: So might as well. We're doing the parade and then the AIC-okay,
so you want to bring your calendars next Tuesday so we can get those done.
Bird: Are you done now?
Future Topics:
Purchasing Policy - 5-29-02
Waiver of Ada County 30 Day Notice Comment Period
Project Care
MPD Personnel Policy (SOP) Manual - 5-29-02
City Forestry Ordinance
Water / Sewer Rates and Water Shut Off Policy
De Weerd: Future workshops. Topics. Do we want to drop Project Care off of
our Future Topics list?
Corrie: My suggestion would be yes.
De Weerd: Council?
Nary: I thought we had talked about Project Care in relation to the Epilepsy
League. We said we were looking at it on a small scale although we weren't
really comfortable (inaudible) substandard; we're also going to look at it, at least
to look it again. We didn't promise them anything but we'll, at least, look at that.
Meridian City Council
May 14, 2002 Strategic Planning Session /Workshop
Page 34 of 35
I don't know if we should drop it off. I think we should, at least, follow through
with that.
De Weerd: Okay. Well, then-
Bird: That's a different situation, though.
Nary: We were just trying to-
Bird: What we did with the Epilepsy, we said hey you come back we might.
Nary: Right. We said we have to try to create-
Bird: Anybody that had a problem, if they want to come forward, we might. I
have a real hard time with taxpayers' dollars with subsidizing. Unfortunately, as
a group, an organization that will step right in and help. We said we might.
Nary: I don't disagree with what you're saying. All I'm saying is, I don't want
someone to come back and ask a question and we say well, we're going to set it
off until we could figure out if we have a standard. We said we would, at least,
try to create a standard. Maybe we can't.
De Weerd: Can we have that as a June 11 th topic to talk about standards for
non-profit using City services and have the conversation then and either you
carry it forward or it goes away at that time? So, at least, then-
Bird: Project Care is not a profit.
De Weerd: No. We agreed to drop Project Care but we do need to have a
conversation like Councilman Nary has mentioned to follow up and address the
non-profit issue using City services.
Nary: Just a discussion.
De Weerd: Just a discussion. Okay. Anything further?
Corrie: Yes. Before we adjourn, is there anybody who would like to go to the
Meridian Symphony Orchestra on May 18th at 7:30 p.m. This Saturday. It's a
great orchestra. I've got free tickets for your family if you want to. Would you like
some?
De Weerd: Gary, you're not going to the Chamber auction?
Smith: No.
Corrie: Do you want to go to the Chamber auction right after - (inaudible) there's
a special guest conductor tonight that might be a surprise to you. One, two,
three, four (inaudible) Okay, if you do, see me.
Meridian City Council
May 14, 2002 Strategic Planning Session /Workshop
Page 35 of 35
Bird: Jonathan, you need to go.
(inaudible)
Bird: What?
De Weerd: You mean you have a life?
Bird: They're very good. They don't take a back seat to anyone.
De Weerd: They are very good. Okay, I would entertain a motion to adjourn.
McCandless: So moved.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. All those in favor say aye. Thank you.
MOTION CARRIED.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
APPROVED:
ROBERT D. CORRIE, MAYOR
/ /
DATE APPROVED
ATTESTED:
WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., CITY CLERK