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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2002 11-06 Pre Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 6, 2002 The Pre-Council Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 5:30 P.M. on November 6, 2002, by Mayor Robert Corrie. Members Present: Robert Corrie, Cherie McCandless, Tammy de Weerd, Keith Bird and Bill Nary arrived at 5:41 Others Present: Bill Nichols, Brad Hawkins-Clark, Steve Siddoway and Will Berg. Item 1. Roll-call Attendance: X Tammy de Weerd X Bill Nary X Cherie McCandless X Keith Bird X Mayor Robert Corrie Corrie: I’ll open the Pre-Council Meeting Wednesday November 6, 2002 at 5:30 P.M. Mr. Clerk if you would have roll call attendance please. Item 2. Adoption of the Agenda: Corrie: Next on the item is adoption of the agenda of the Pre-Council. Bird: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I would move that we adopt the agenda as published. McCandless: Second. Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded to adopt the agenda as published. Any further discussion. Hearing that all those in favor of the motion say aye. All ayes, motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Item 3. Discussion concerning Waltman Lane / Meridian Road / Central Drive / Main Street Intersection Design: Corrie: Item 3 is the discussion concerning Waltman Lane / Meridian Road / Central Drive / Main Street Intersection design. Erv Olen. Olen: Thank you Mayor. Erv Olen, Community Planning Association. Clair Bowman asked me and I’ve been working with Mayor Corrie on trying to bring to Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 6, 2002 Page 2 of 29 some reasonable, not necessarily a conclusion, but approach on how to solve or resolve this issue. I’m here tonight to give you some background, status of where we are and frankly to ask for some direction should we continue to proceed, and the implications of that. Perhaps the background, and I know you probably all know a lot of this but I’d like to summarize it. Ada County Highway District has completed a design and in fact down some of the construction for the improvements of Waltman Lane, Main and Meridian and I’m sure your all familiar with it but it includes some work that has already been done on Main going up to Corporate Drive improvements on Corporate Drive. By the way we think whoever is responsible for the signal for our offices, it makes it a lot easier to get in and out. One of the key parts of making it all work is solving the intersection coming out of Waltman Lane and getting into the system and the Highway District solution is to. On new alignment build a connection into Meridian Road and have limited turn movements out of the Waltman Lane area. The only way you can get in and out of there with left turns is to go up Corporate over to Meridian and come back in and conversely to go out and what that does is make this intersection operate much more efficiently. A developer as you know is interested in developing this area more intensively. We don’t have a description exactly of what they want but the current zoning apparently allows them to develop at a pretty high commercial potential and in working with them they are going to be giving us some more specific development assumptions. Because of their concerns with this scheme for access they hired a consultant to come up with an alternate scheme. Thanks Steve. That scheme would essentially make a one way pair with Main going North bound and Meridian coming South bound tying into this intersection and then having a new connection coming out of the Waltman Lane area. The advantage of this is that traffic destined to this area to their development would have much better access in and out. Now operationally this would work but there are some problems with the one-way pair. Particularly when it ties into Franklin Boulevard it creates all kinds of problems at Franklin. Also the other part of the problem is the original design Ada County Highway District had is scheduled to be constructed in 2004 and I understand today is the decision point with them is whether to proceed with that or delay it a year. That’s one reason we are tonight asking for some direction on what we should do. I’ve been working with the developer and Mayor Corrie and with Ada County Highway District on trying to come up with a resolution to all of this and my conclusion is – first of all the city has rezoned this area for development. You have a developer that wants to implement your plan and it would be a good amenity for the City of Meridian. On the other hand, however it could cause a delay of at least a year in constructing an ultimate solution and if it’s not a simple solution, it could be as much as slipping it out to 2008 and that’s why we need your feedback. My solution is – Steve would you put the schedule – was to develop a 10 step process to go through a study to evaluate with all the players and actors in this process a driving circulation scheme to allow us to go forward together. The impact of doing this study is a minimum delay for one year for any improvements, including the existing design and tonight is the decision point on whether we want to incur that delay. Also this process doesn’t guarantee that a subsequent Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 6, 2002 Page 3 of 29 solution could be built by 2005. It depends on the outcome. The 10 step process starts with the developer giving us their land use assumptions. This week they have agreed to do that. We have also asked your staff to develop land use assumptions for the area immediately surrounding this site be cause it would prudent if were going to do this to make sure we are incorporating all the potential development at this location and not have to do this again in another six months. The third step is to bring the land use assumptions to you and have you at least authorize to proceed with this study with those land use assumptions. We wouldn’t be asking you to adopt them but to make sure you are aware with what assumptions we are using for the study as we go forward. Step Number 4 is to secure 30,000 to do a traffic study we have a commitment from the developer to put up a third of that. We haven’t yet got a commitment from the City of Meridian or Ada County Highway District but the indication I have had is that there is a willingness to work with us to make up that 30,000. If you agree to have us proceed, we are going to ask you to come up with 10 of those 30 same with Ada County Highway District. At that point we will form a study committee we have identified a number of stakeholders that need to be involved. The City of Meridian, Ada County Highway District, the developer, the Downtown Business Association, Meridian Chamber, the Development Corporation and the Idaho Transportation Department, we really want to have all the players participate in the process. My original intent was for this to be a 60 day study, but because of the holidays that’s coming up we obviously have to take time out for that and in working with the Ada County Highway District, it was their preference that we slide this out to about a five month study, and have it complete the end of February. At the end of February then the product from the study would be a final recommendation that’s been approved by Mayor and Council, City of Meridian you folks and of course Ada County Highway District. At that time Ada County Highway District would initiate roughly a six-month design, a redesign of this area so that they would be willing – ready to construct the improvements by 2005 assuming that the nature of the improvements where such that they could be done by 2005. That’s what I am here to propose in a way. Agreeing to go with this approach automatically delays everything one year out to 2005. The second problem is that a redesign of this intersection is estimated by the Ada County Highway District to cost 80 to 100,000 and that money would be needed at the end of February in order to proceed on a timely basis. City of Meridian doesn’t have that kind of money, Ada County Highway District doesn’t have that kind of money and at the request of Mayor Corrie I’ve contacted the developers representative. I think you have a memo that summarizes that conversation and the developers first of all are continuing to commit to their share of the 30, but they are not willing to commit to putting those 80 to 100,000 dollars up. They feel that that should be shared by a whole bunch of other folks. They have indicated a desire to work within the properties that they control or want to control to come up with their equitable share but at this point we do not have a commitment for that 80 to 100. Essentially, that’s the background in terms of where I am with this process. It seems like all parties, I met Highway District Commissioners feel that this approach probably makes Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 6, 2002 Page 4 of 29 sense because we really shouldn’t be building something that may not meet the future needs and taking a pause now and doing it right seems to be the right thing to do. The problem is that 80 to 100,000 for the design, if we go through this process, come up with a scheme that works for everybody and don’t have the money to do the design. We could potentially delay any improvement well beyond 2005 and with out that commitment for the 80 to 100 it does make this process somewhat awkward. That’s why we are here tonight. I’m here tonight to ask for your direction on how we should proceed. I think your options are one to say lets stop this thing right now and build what we already have designed. Option 2 would be to take the five month clause that is being proposed and do a study, understanding it’s a minimum of a one year delay in any improvements and to direct us to do what we can to secure the 80 to 100,000 with no guarantees that we can do it. I don’t know what other options you really have but I’d certainly like to open it up for your comments, questions and again I’m here looking for direction. Bird: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: Steve would you go back to the two diagrams, the design by. Okay, that is the one that is being studied right now. Am I not right? Corrie: That’s correct. Bird: Have been approved, and this is the developers deal. I don’t other then a right in right out lanes. I don’t see anyway that we can take one way to Franklin. Maybe Gem Road would be as far as I ever want to see it go. I hate to delay, you know you say this five-month study puts us back a minimum one-year. I’ll make you a bet it’s two to three years. We’ve all been down that road and Locust Grove is a deal. We the City of Meridian don’t have a lot of money to throw at roads, designs or anything else, nor should we be in the business of doing that. We stepped forward on the overpass because we felt that would get us ahead but it didn’t. I – I wish this would have been brought forward about six or eight months before we started but that isn’t the way we do things. What’s to say this development is going to start within a year. We hold off and get this and set it back two to three years, what if that development don’t go for five years. The economy and there is a lot of good industrial commercial ground sitting out there that’s been zoned and annexed for years that isn’t selling. You know what’s the guarantee that that’s going to go and delay the thing. That’s my opinion right now. I’ll listen to some of the other Council people. Nary: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Nary. Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 6, 2002 Page 5 of 29 Nary: I’ve said it all along I think the same as what Mr. Bird said. Is that you know it seems like a very good idea proposed by developers a year ago I think it would’ve been a great idea but we are awfully close to getting some resolution there. I guess there is an argument to be made that I think we have heard from folks that we’ve waited 20 years to do something about that intersection or so. Is another year or two going to matter, at some point it does matter and you know I wouldn’t have a big concern if the developer didn’t want to help fund that because they would have to fund it at this juncture if they wanted a significant change. Or if they were bringing us a project that we could have something to see rather then just a vision of having a better entryway and those things which I think are good I think they have brought up some very good things but again it’s not something that’s very tangible, it’s more speculative. I think Mr. Bird is right in saying you know is that another fiver year speculation do we put this off for two or three years again nothing happens. There are people that are already there that have other things that they would like to do with their property and we would be delaying them as well on the speculation of something else. I guess I’m real apprehensive to want to delay this either. McCandless: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. McCandless. McCandless: I’m also in agreement with Bill and Keith because if we went one way down to Franklin we would have a whole new set of problems there that I wouldn’t even want to face. It seems like the other one the first one they’ve started with. We’re not going to have the delays that we would have with the other plan that you laid out and I don’t believe its just going to be a years delay. For those reasons I definitely agree with them. Corrie: Go ahead. De Weerd: I’ll argue the other side of the point, just because. I just don’t want to get into something that addresses the need today and not the need tomorrow. Gambling with an extra year is something and even participating 10,000 dollars in the study to make sure we do it right. This intersection is the entry into our city and the ramifications of this intersection are huge, not just for the property owners to the west, it has ramifications of our Urban Renewal efforts and even the businesses to the east, et cetera and every business up and down Meridian Road and Main. I would like to see us do it right. Now – and that does not mean I’m supporting their alternate, right now I think its an issue of looking at our current design which is the first slide that was shown and seeing if improvements can be made from that. I know from talking with the Mayor and from talking with ACHD that there is a commitment as long as we follow your timeframe that the delay is one year with minor design. When asked what is minor, it’s pretty big, that’s where you have the gray area. Again even if we wait a year to go with this design I think it would work to the best advantage of our community to invest in Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 6, 2002 Page 6 of 29 that additional year with in the next three months to make sure what we are going to do, is in the best interest of our community. I guess those are my comments and -- Corrie: Okay well I’m going to give you mine even though sometimes I don’t get to do it very often. In looking at this, I guess I’m not a very good gambler. One of the things that I can see is that if we put this off and do this study its going to cost us 10,000 dollars minimum. ACHD has not committed to that yet but I think they will. Olen: I do to Mayor. Corrie: The next problem that comes up is that Tammy mentioned is what is minor? Any type of change is going to cost we know from the engineering standpoint of it 80 to 100,000 dollars. They were not willing to commit that even though the project they want to do is worth multi millions of dollars. Consequently, that would mean a delay until 2008 because coming up with that kind of money even if we did have a design and they did say that it would be 2008 before we would even possibly get it built if we don’t do anything and with the minor change it would be 2004. I just don’t feel like 2004 is going to be our magic day here. If we start messing with the one-way streets, it’s going to go into Franklin project and I don’t want to delay that myself and I don’t think it’s very wise to delay that with the economy that we have. Plus that fact if we delay that intersection till 2008 it’s going to be a large parking lot. I believe what Keith has said we got another area out there that’s been ready to go and it hasn’t really set off yet but I think it will very shortly. I believe that the same as the other three Council people and I know Tammy and I’m not saying that she’s wrong either because she has got some good ideas. I thought we were going to have to make this decision last Friday and ACHD was kind enough to give us till tonight. Consequently, if I had to vote it would be not to delay it in further and to do this design here and get it on. Because they could come back if they really want to do something and they can do it later but we cannot wait until 2008, which is really going to be the case here. Anyone else have anything? Bird: Mr. Mayor. I’d like to just add one thing and I too agree I want the best thing going. Really what the developer brought up and what we’ve got designed here, and this designed has been being worked on since 1993. We are – I don’t see a lot of difference but their design is going to handle any more traffic through there. It probably will be nicer for the development down there which you know I think every one of us up here encourage development down there and hope it goes tomorrow. I think there is ways to get it in and out and the more you delay you just get it more complicated and I’m like the Mayor I just don’t feel right now is the time to delay. Corrie: Any other discussion? Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 6, 2002 Page 7 of 29 Olen: Mr. Mayor I came here asking for direction and I believe I got it. Corrie: You got it Erv. Okay all right. Olen: I appreciate the opportunity to try and work with this and I appreciate your direction. Corrie: Thank you for working with us Erv and I appreciate that very much. Olen: Thank you very much. Item 4. Review of Amended Floodplain Ordinance: Corrie: Review of the amended Floodplain Ordinances next on the agenda. I believe Brad -- are you going to do that one Brad or the other Brad or that Brad. Okay Brad Hawkins-Clark you have the floor. Hawkins-Clark: Mayor, Members of the Council. The packet I believe you had a draft ordinance is that correct in your packets of the Ordinance 01-928? You have I believe twice before received just some general information about this FEMA change. In January this year we did receive notification from FEMA that they will allow these below grade crawl spaces. Essentially, it’s a review of FEMA’s standards that for residential development in the 100-year flood plain districts. They essentially came to us and said that within that 100-year flood plain they will allow below grade crawl spaces that is a departure from what their original guidelines were that prohibited them. They I think really the main other change they made that deals there in the first couple paragraphs is they are no longer going to consider these below grade crawl spaces as basements. There’s kind of a definition thing going on with FEMA so they have provided new interim guidelines for the regulation of below grade crawl space construction. In of course in Meridian the majority of our residential construction utilizes these so we feel like it would be beneficial for the City to adopt some new standards and regulations. Probably in terms of impact to property owners in Meridian the – you know any structure within the flood plain that exists or that’s going to be built to conform to the new standards will be subject to higher insurance premiums then homes built without a crawl space but the rates would be reduced from the previous rates. Basically, what you have here is just a draft ordinance that would kind of bring the city’s current regulations dealing with our crawl spaces and other issues dealing with homes in the flood plains up to match what FEMA has. Now I think that besides this change they are in the process I guess all the time of reviewing these and this is mainly just to bring us up to snuff. There maybe some changes with the new information that we received a couple months ago. I think it was just on your Pre-Council Meeting Agenda tonight just to kind of discuss if this is okay and give you a chance to review current code and modifications that we would have to make to meet the FEMA standards. If you’re Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 6, 2002 Page 8 of 29 comfortable with it, we would put it on to standard agenda and to your regular meeting. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Thank you Brad. Mr. Mayor. De Weerd: Brad these are pretty minor and certainly work to lessen the requirements in the flood plain rather then make them more cumbersome. Is that correct? Hawkins-Clark: That is my understanding, yes. De Weerd: Okay. I would suggest we get it on our agenda for Public Hearing and get this changed. Nary: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: Wouldn’t this go to Planning and Zoning, the Commissioners first? Hawkins-Clark: It falls within Title 10. I guess we could receive – so yes 11 and 12 is the Planning and Zoning Commission. Nary: Okay there is a typo in the title. I think its good to get it on too. The word methods is misspelled about the middle of the title. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council Members) Berg: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: I hear a voice on the other end. Berg: Sorry I don’t call very much. Corrie: Yes Mr. Berg. Berg: Just to reflect back on our procedure. We wanted to bring all the ordinances draft wise to the Council at Pre-Council Meetings for review or approval or direction. It would be my direction or suggestion to also have a Public Hearing. We have had several calls from the public and some contractors concerning this ordinance and not saying our office is the experts to explain it but we did tell them, send them a copy, suggested for them to call David at Planning and Zoning. It would probably be good just to have a Public Hearing in case some of them did have some objections but we are just trying to follow the Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 6, 2002 Page 9 of 29 procedure in case there are any different directions that you would like us as staff to do on any of these ordinances we can do it then. Corrie: I think that would probably be (inaudible) on this case. Any other comments? With that being said, I think if you Mr. Berg get the ball rolling on that, have the Public Hearing, and set that up for us we could do that. Any other comments for review? Item 5. Update on Ten Mile Interchange: Corrie: Update on Ten-Mile Interchange, Steve. Siddoway: Thank you Mayor, members of the Council. The group working through Earth-Tech in working on this Ten Mile interchange has been active since our last update. I’ve asked them to come and give the Council an update on where we are today. Basically two things, I think we would like to point out and then I’ll turn some time over to these other gentleman. There was additional work done on the demographics. The developer hired John Church to take a look at the demographics and refine them, which he has done. Those demographics have been presented to ITD and others and have had general buyoff on those demographics for us to – for them to proceed their preliminary design work based on those demographics. I know John Church is here today to talk about any of the specific questions related to the demographics. In addition we have representatives from Earth-Tech and Thompson they have done some initial modeling work which they have just got up on the screen and I’m actually going to turn some time over to him first to talk about some of the work that they have done. Thompson: Mr. Mayor and Council I am Dan Thompson I’m with the firm of Earth-Tech. Our business address is 3071 East Franklin Road in Meridian. As you recall the last time we were here we kind of discussed about where we were at and at that time we were kind of arguing demographics. Arguing is probably a strong word. We were discussing demographics with ITD and FHWA and we have since that time come to an agreement. We don’t have FHWA’s blessing on it yet but we do have an agreement with ITD, ACHD and we have the city staff concerning demographics also. At that time we also should you several options that we were kind of looking at. What we have done is taken four of those and continued them further but before I go I guess I would like John Church to come up here, talk about our demographics, and show you how we got to where we are at. Church: I prepared an analysis of what would happen to the area surrounding Ten Mile Road if this interchange were built differing from what is already forecasted which assumes no interchange. I have some handouts for you that just essentially summarize this analysis. What I have done here is look at the traffic analysis zones all around Ten Mile Road that would be impacted – my Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 6, 2002 Page 10 of 29 fingers are not working to well – impacted by the construction of this interchange. The top page, Page 1 essentially is the difference between COMPASS’s existing projections and my revised projections given the construction of that interchange. I’ve broken it up by number of households, the number of households around that and essentially the TAZ’s that are listed off to the left 272 through 279 and then 289, 90, 91 and 92. Their size, you can see that I’m forecasting a difference of 3,960 some additional household over and above what is already forecasted for that area. The population increases of 11,700 by the year 2025 over and above what is already forecasted for that area. Total employments gains in that area with construction of the interchange would be about 9,450 jobs over and above what is already forecasted for that area would be essentially a major shift in a sense that this is one of those projects that once you build it they will come. If a developer has laid out a plan for that traffic zone 278 essentially that once that interchange is built they will be concepting or coming up with a commercial project. That opens up many other areas that would be developed in conjunction with it on the other side, on the west side of Ten Mile Road and to the North of I 84. It also opens up a great deal of residential development, which I deem will be residential development occurring to the south side of the interstate up on the bench. Essentially, I don’t foresee that being attractive to commercial once you get up on that bench. That area that is close to the freeway and is close to the intersection will be commercial, office so on, and so forth. I built these projections based upon other areas that have developed throughout the valley. I looked at some surrogate areas, the West Park project of Winston Moore’s project off of Emerald between Maple Grove and Five Mile. The Boise Research Center at Chinden and Cloverdale and then some residential properties essentially the development densities that we have in some sections and some TAZ’s here in Meridian as surrogate. Then also residential properties that are in the square mile between Eagle and Cloverdale and Chinden and McMillan where the Boise Research Center is but we have Hobble Creek, Legends and some other subdivisions in that type of category there and what kind of densities in development would occur there. I’ve phased these in over time, not all of this property is even developed in this projection by the year 2025. There is always going to be some hold out, someone not going to participate and develop the property it will still remain as it is for quite some period of time so this is not at full development but maybe 50 years down the road. There are some properties to the south side that are already divided into relatively small parcels, five acre parcels that may not be real attractive for being divided up into further residential development so it gets a little sparse in some spots but then its very dense in others as we pass essentially Victory going south off of Ten Mile. These projections in some cases in traffic zone 278 for example actually have decreases in population in households. If it’s commercial that drives the residential out and becomes too expensive. Some areas lose but other areas gain by this development and I think in terms of that we are getting a little more of a face that what may occur with that in using some representative developments around the valley that come up with some perimeters for this. Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 6, 2002 Page 11 of 29 Bird: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: John on – should that interchange go in do you see from south of the railroad tracks to the north of Overland Road as being the industrial, retail, commercial area, over to Black Cat and how far to the east do you think that corridor will go to Linder? Church: As you go to the east your going come up against residential property and (inaudible) Bird: And you go around, yes. Church: You’ve only got about a half-mile there. You can’t get all the way to Linder before you get into some residential development already. I think commercial is going to butt up against that in my viewpoint. Residential will not come towards the commercial because the commercial is just going to drive the land prices up that it will not be feasible for residential to do so unless its multi family high density. Bird: Then your north side of Franklin between Linder and Ten Mile and the railroad tracks between the railroad tracks and Franklin is basically going to be. Church: Its zoned industrial right now. Bird: Industrial right now. Church: I did not consider any possibilities of inter urban transportation, railroad transportation in that but I did consider commercial. I think in that sense it is a surrogate for essentially what may occur if there were rail transportation and a rail station at Ten Mile, which could add another dynamic to this. I also looked at from essentially Ten Mile to Black Cat to McDermott which is all one TAZ south of Franklin to the interstate as being viable for development, I mean it will be a two mile stretch, a very large section of land I believe it 1290 acres that could be open for development. Not all of it is actually developed in this projection by that period of time, but almost 75 percent of it is. I think it would move a very rapid order as the interchange were put in. Coming from the other direction we’ve got projects coming down from Robinson so to speak, from Garrity to Robinson coming right up Franklin, I think in the longer term would come together but this project would probably surpass some of those initially that were built. This projection was laid out as essentially a template that would go over top of COMPASS’s existing forecast rather then subtracting it off somewhere else. We are just looking at analysis of traffic at that interchange. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 6, 2002 Page 12 of 29 Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: Well in your projections the benefits to our community of having this interchange are huge. You know and the potential jobs created and industries attracted to this area. So – Church: To Meridian. De Weerd: Which I think, what’s that? Church: To Meridian. As COMPASS says it may be a zero some game if you build it here it will not be built someplace else. It might be the (inaudible) of another community. It might essentially pull the development away from what may occur somewhere at Garrity for example at Nampa or what may occur in Boise but we didn’t do that sort of analysis we just said this is what would happen if this were built. De Weerd: And I think that is a trend you are already seeing because of the central location of Meridian. The businesses are relocating because of the location. Church: Also the population. The population has been a big attraction. Corrie: Any other questions, comments for John? Bird: Thank you very much. Corrie: Good job John. De Weerd: Nice job. Corrie: Thank you very much. Thompson: Mr. Mayor once again Dan Thompson with Earth-Tech. Once we did get those numbers from Mr. Church, what we did is we gave them to COMPASS. They submitted and ran them through their model and they created some traffic numbers for us. What we had them look at was the year 2010 projections including this interchange and we had them look at 2025 projections using the demographics of John Davis. What their model gives us is basically average daily traffic volumes on roads and everything, its predicting traffic between traffic analysis zones and its more of an area wide model its not really very good for detailed analysis. We had to take their numbers and do some interpretation of them. We have to get both average daily traffic down to peak hour volumes. We have to determine the turning movements and lots of other thing in there. Basically, what we used has our model was Eagle Road. We feel its going to be very similar and ITD was also kept pointing to Eagle Road as what Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 6, 2002 Page 13 of 29 they don’t want to have happen again and want to make sure we are well covered for that. A lot of this was done very conservatively as the estimate as John mentioned it was at zero some, obviously if we do have a million and half square feet of office space at this interchange it will probably not be built somewhere else based on COMPASS’s model that maybe Eagle Road or it may be some of the other ones. That’s a really intense effort, which is well beyond our scope. (Inaudible). Once we got to that point we got to basically the fun side of traffic engineering. What we have here is basically Ten Mile Road up at the top of the page is Franklin Road right there. This was basically the access to the businesses on either side of Ten Mile Road and at the bottom we have Overland Road and of course Interstate 84. We do have some constraints. One of ITD’s policies concerning access is that they do want it to be restricted and they feel that they are giving us access onto the Interstate they will want some control of access on Ten Mile Road and the access they want would be what we call their type four access. They would want basically, one half mile spacing between access points. It’s one mile between Overland and Franklin Road so obviously to get an access point between the interstate and Franklin Road it’s not possible to keep the half-mile spacing. Worse then that is Overland Road is pretty close too, so we are trying to deal with those constraints. What we are going to do is zoom in but we got, we modeled several different scenarios that we talked about last time and want you to know that the other four roads they really aren’t going to care how the traffic gets there whether through a single point urban interchange the loop or the standard diamond whatever it is it doesn’t care. It’s going to function pretty much the same way. What we are able to do is feed this into a program called Sencro and it will analyze the whole system. What we are looking for with this program is it’s going to tell us what kind of storage lengths that we should plan on for the traffic volumes. This one is kind of fun because it gives us a nice little picture where we can actually see the cars. We can actually track these cars through the whole system if we get one in there we can follow how it goes and see where it backs up. What we are finding out from this one, we just took the traffic we had and kind of made it work. We found out we would need two through lanes here, we would need double up turn lanes on this one and what we are looking at here is the 2010 traffic. The 2025 I think we would, the Robinson has an interchange within the COMPASS model and this one actually decreases between 2025 and 2010. A lot of the other ones do increase though. Another major concern that ITD had was basically how this would connect up with Highway 16 up across State Street and we spent a lot of time discussing that which as far as we concern didn’t matter because once we get to here this is where we are concerned with but that was a major concern of ITD. John can we go to the next intersection now please? This is basically the business access most of the retail is on to the east of Franklin Road and that is why we are seeing quite a few double lanes in there. One thing that will have to be looked at will be the access to this area. We’re just assuming the one access for the COMPASS model obviously there will be some accesses onto Franklin Road or something. Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 6, 2002 Page 14 of 29 (Inaudible discussion amongst Council Members). De Weerd: It’s nice to see a couple busses in there anyway. Church: It’ll model the larger trucks. There are busses in there and it does show them as trucks or whatever. We do include those. It’s amazing it includes up to 10 different driver types. There are some I recognize, they are blocking lanes and things like that. It does do a pretty good job of estimating traffic and showing where it backs up. What we will do is we will take these, we’ll estimate the number of lanes we need for the movements. The auxiliary lanes we will need on the interchange. It’s going to tell us what we need to do and we are looking at it for 2010 and 2025 to see if there is anyway we can phase it in. What we will end up with, we’ll end up with basically a traffic report that will kind of detail all those items, now this is just a draft report we haven’t had any internal review yet. I’m not going to leave you with a copy but I’ll take this and this will be a document for our design. Once we get through our design phase we will take it and make some detailed estimates do an analysis for which we covered lots of things such as traffic operations, analysis, cost analysis and a number of other things and hopefully come up with a recommendation as to which one we think would be the best. I’m going to jump a little bit ahead now since we are rebooting here. I guess it would be our schedule, the next thing on the list. We get delayed on the demographics trying to get approval of that by about a month. Our original schedule was to probably have this finished up here within about two weeks, we are not going to make that but we are trying to look forward. This is something we can throw a couple more bodies at and get it done, so that’s kind of our plan right now is to break a couple people free and hopefully within the first week of December we’ll have some final report done which will be submitted to ITD for their review, hopefully approval. Lets go right to the interchange. That’s good. What we do is we usually kind of watch these over awhile and pretty soon – ***End Of Side One*** Church: -- some congestion occurs and that’s what we are doing. We find some congestion occurring say down in this area we’ll have to tweak a little bit, look for a place to add a lane or extend a merge, something of that nature. One thing we’ve added is this is just a free right which is going to allow us to get that traffic going through and reduce some of the construction on that and another. This one here is a simple diamond interchange here one of the problems we have with this one. These are all the houses that are in there that would be a right of way cost. The other problem we have is the distance between here and Overland is I think about, do you remember what that is, is it about 800 feet, which was no where near the spacing that ITD required. We do determine that both these intersections would need to be signalized so that’s something that we are going to have to work out. This model will help us do that and we can show you that the back up from that other intersection will not interfere with this intersection. If we saw cars backing up into here, that’s what ITD wants to make Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 6, 2002 Page 15 of 29 sure is not going to happen. Why don’t we go to the off set interchange to. Zoom out a little bit for us please. On this one we basically just took it and shifted it over from here and I think before we go any farther then this we need to see if this connect causes us any real problems. We are kind of focusing on the interchange again here to make sure that works. It basically functions, this allows us to get a few more of the houses in there, and we still have the problem with this distance in here. If anybody wants to see anything in particular we can always show that. Bird: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: Dan is that, this design right here going into Overland Road, you’re coming out behind that existing barn and stuff there. To me that, you got two way traffic entering the freeway from Overland where if you keep it down to the existing one we only have one way traffic coming in. You only have it coming on you don’t have cross traffic. See what I mean. Thompson: Coming up in here. Bird: If your coming there you just got the one way traffic coming west on Overland that’s why you have traffic coming off of Ten Mile going east and so you got two traffic deals. Thompson: You are correct exactly and that’s why I say we have this disconnect here which might cause us some problems, we need to kind of refine that and look. It doesn’t really solve our distance problem here. Bird: That’s what I was going to say. The only thing it does save is some of that subdivision over there. Thompson: It saves the subdivision. We are assuming at this point that that farm is probably going to be historical cause it’s been there more then 50 years. It’s historical by definition there so that’s why we selected that location there. I’ll tell you what I look for the loop. Pay no attention to those error messages. This one basically, instead of having the full diamond interchange we just looped this off ramp around. It’s really a very efficient way to move cars on and off, that’s why we had clover leafs in the major interchanges there. What that doesn’t do, it actually makes that connection here a little bit shorter so it isn’t an issue we have to resolve but again you can see we are not having the backup problem so its something that we might be able to address with ITD. Bird: Its more expensive when you bring a loop off to it. Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 6, 2002 Page 16 of 29 Thompson: It takes more right of way. I think we are probably up in this area here somewhere, we got to keep some spacing between the off ramp connections for synchronizing the signals but this is more then the minimum required. Usually your off ramp loops need to be a little bigger because they are coming off at a higher speed as opposed to an on ramp. I think if you look at the one in Meridian Road its much tighter then that. Bird: How do you keep from getting a real bottle neck up there where the cars coming off the loop and going south against the cars coming south and trying to get on the east bound freeway. Thompson: One of the major movements we had from the south was actually up and on to the freeway. Bird: Yes but I mean say I’m coming this way and I want to go east and then I have cars coming off here. You don’t want them backing up very far and even though – if I want to turn right that is great but what if I want to come south? Thompson: That’s correct. We want to make sure. That’s why we are doing this program to make sure we have enough storage that’s not going to get back up onto the freeway. If we looked at what we ended up having to do in 2025 is actually giving them a little free right loop there to make sure those cars are completely out of the way. This is our bigger movement. This is our bigger movement. Bird: Cause Cole Road even thought the off ramp at Cole going east and just past Overland there when you get off to go to the Spectrum. You can back up there you know. I’ve never seen it to the freeway. Thompson: That’s very similar to that situation. Bird: It is very similar to it and that’s what, and they have cross traffic, which helps but also have more traffic. Thompson: This one would have to line up with, I forgot the name of the road which serves that little subdivision in there, so like 12 or 15 houses that would have signal access. Why don’t we look at the next one there? The last one we looked at was the single point urban interchange. We had to modify it a little bit as you recall we looked at just the standard one and at that time we estimated it was going to cost twice what the cheapest one was so we really haven’t considered that any further. What we have done is kind of looked at what we call the shifted one where we move it off side and it cuts down on the structures quite a bit. It probably won’t look like this in reality what we had to do is force it a little bit, you know these ones here will probably be a much tighter little ramp here but if we did that to (inaudible) they will have a little bit of problems with it so we kind of forced it a little bit. One big advantage of this one here is we can space Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 6, 2002 Page 17 of 29 Overland Road this intersection the business access and Franklin Road at even spacing. I gave us a real good opportunity to synchronize all that traffic coming through there. Again we kind of, its not really to scale these are not construction plans by any means but. It looks like a lot of our structure would be in the one lane width, which is well half as expensive as two lanes. We think this has got some potential we really are deciding it, its still quite a bit more structure then just the standard diamond inter. One thing we are kind of looking at here is the possibility of maybe phasing this portion of it. If we are bringing the interchange up most of our movements are up here there might be a possibility to hold off on the reconstruction of the Ten Mile overpass. Right now its two lanes. We are going to see if we can maintain it at two lanes past 2010 or something but we are not sure at this point if that’s going to be possible but that’s one of the advantages that we can look at at this one. De Weerd: Wouldn’t one of the disadvantages be the cost of maintenance to that kind of a system. I mean I am assuming those are overpass type situations. Thompson: Yes your primary cost is just your initial structure costs. Usually the cost of maintaining an overpass, you know they are basically just a concrete structure. Well I guess there is the bridge maintenance that would have to be maintained. That would be something that we would have to look at to make sure that annual costs is reasonable. De Weerd: So this would be Meridian’s Y. Thompson: I would not call it that. We would have to have a big (inaudible) to make it a Y. I don’t think we are going to get to that. Bird: Dan I’d have to think that this one would be three to four times more expensive then that first one, the standard one. Thompson: Our initial estimate had it less then twice expensive. It was probably one and a half to one point six. That was our estimate here. Again we are just trying to get a feel, it wasn’t a budgeting number or anything like that. As we get into it and start laying out the design we are going to find things that we might have forgotten and just a conceptual estimate that probably would drive that cost up somewhere but it also going to be happening on some of the other ones too. That’s our task now is to make that determination. (Inaudible discussion amongst Council Members) Thompson: I guess one issue we are finding. I guess, John correct me if I’m wrong on this that we did determine by 2010 there is going to be a need for three lanes on the interstate and by 2025 there will be four. We are not sure if that’s had to determine if that interchange is causing that to occur or not. We don’t think that is the case. The I-84 corridor study would believe that does include Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 6, 2002 Page 18 of 29 those lane configurations of those years. That’s pretty much where we are at right now and again I mentioned our schedule hoping the first week or two of December since we were pushed back we are just going to push ahead hard. We haven’t really committed to any times but we are pushing for the first week of December to have something completed and submitted. De Weerd: What a neat program. Thompson: Yes it is a lot of fun. Bird: That would be fun to play with. Thompson: What’s really kind of fun is when we can make it not work. Bird: Give me the computer I can show you how to do that. I can have the cars going backwards and everything else. Thompson: Are there any questions? Bird: Thank you very much. Corrie: Thank you Dan. Appreciate the good work. Thank you Steve. Thank you John. Item 6. Discussion on update of Parks Partnerships Corrie: Item Number 6 discussion update of Parks Partnerships. Bird: Mr. Mayor. We met a week or so ago, Elroy and Mr. Nichols and myself with the Kiwanis Club and also the Adventure Land Group of people. De Weerd: Adventure Island. Bird: Adventure Island, I’m sorry to start are partnership with them and to get the agreements drawn up. I can either turn it over to Elroy or Mr. Nichols regarding the agreements. We also have a group the Meridian Youth Baseball that we need to figure out where we are going to put them. They are out raising money, would like to start this spring. We got the Lions Rodeo Club or the Lions Club with their Rodeo grounds which if anybody’s been through by Fairview and Eagle they can see that the rodeo grounds is now being made into roads and getting developed. About anything, I’ll ask one of these gentlemen if they would like to go on with it and Council I would like to discuss where we need to put, and Elroy can do this at the same time. Where we need to put the Meridian Baseball Group cause they are out raising money fast and furious. Huff: Good Evening. Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 6, 2002 Page 19 of 29 De Weerd: Good Evening. Huff: We just do Kiwanis Park first. Lets do that. I have met with Kiwanis Park officials and have another meeting with them again Tuesday. We have discussed many things related to that partnership and we are getting some things down on paper so we can start to formulate a plan. We have looked in, asked Pinnacle Engineering to work up either a cost or how much they will do for us in the engineering plans total plans for that project. We will see, we know that they are willing to donate quite a bit to that project so we will see what that is. I don’t know where they are going to cut that off yet. We are just getting there with that one and we will see how it goes here pretty quick. We want to make sure we have a total set of engineering plans, things to go out with so when we do that partnership there’s no question about what everybody’s commitment will be when they do come in to work into that partnership or to do free gratis work on that park. They will go into contract and they’ll do that just the same as they would anybody that’s a subcontractor they will have to finish that work, they’ll sign on to do that. There is no half way doing it and walking out of it kind of stuff so we are going to spec all those things pretty tight. We’re working on that and I’ll from time to time let you know how that is coming. We got things and issues to take care of with Irrigation District on that. (Inaudible) we have already met with them and so we are going forward as soon as we get all the things we want to put together we’ll give it to Bill and kind of throw it together and see how that is going to mesh out and verbiage on it the partnership. I’m a little green on that but I’m learning so let’s see, any more questions on Kiwanis Park? Adventure Land Playground, I have met with that group and I am going to meet with them again. We have had a donation or two start to come into that project, they aren’t very big but they are starting to come in. We have discussed how to go about making sure that we have the same thing we did at Kiwanis with an engineered, total engineered set of plans and all things that are expected so there is no question about what needs to be done so we can pick and chose in order what will need to be done and what money will be needed to raise for certain parts of that project. How that we can spend city money and that we have allocated for that project to make sure it is done within code with the law so we spend it the way we are supposed to. I would imagine within the next month or two we should be real solid on what’s going to be going on that but I’m just going to keep meeting with them and we are going to go from there. We have had some construction companies come in to Land Group in some meetings and meet about construction management. We got several groups come in, some of them have been interested, and some of them have been interested and then since declined to do their services. We are still searching a little bit to see what we can end up with the best construction management group and who will donate some of there time and willing to get in the middle of this project. We do have a couple of construction outfits that will do management that are excited about that project. We are going to keep working with them and we will just let you know how that fishes out when it comes. Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 6, 2002 Page 20 of 29 De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: So Elroy on both of these you anticipate an agreement detailing what responsibilities of the city, the responsibilities of the organization by the end of the year, is that fair to say? Huff: I don’t think I will make it by the end of the year but I think once we get to a certain point it will go a little faster. I want to make sure that if there is anything we need to do to go out to bid or go out to do some things like that I’d like to get that formulated for whatever we do in starting projects around the February mark. We got things going when spring comes so we’re not caught behind not doing anything when the weather starts to get warm, we want to be ready to go. De Weerd: Now Settlers Park or the Adventure Island Playground is the only one that has budget dollars allocated towards it. Huff: That is correct. De Weerd: Out of those two groups so more you are talking in bids on that particular project. Huff: On Adventure Land? Yes, there is going to be some bidding process. However I think in that Partnership Program, even though we are involved in that I think a lot of that is going to be some construction management’s going to handle quite a bit of that. We are going to be in there watching things and make sure things get done to spec so there’s not going to be anything not the way it’s supposed to be. We’ll just see how it goes. A lot of that depends on how their funds -- when they get right after it how their funds come in. We know there funds are going to come in better once they have all the engineering done and everybody can look to see what is expected and there’s nothing left out of it and we are going to go right to that point. I don’t know right now if they have the money to expand the engineering fees on that. We certainly can do that out of our share of the money that we have budgeted for that. I’m willing to do that if its okay with Council to do it that way but that gets us quite a ways. As soon as everybody knows what they have to do, it’s a lot better. If you’re just wondering what it is, especially if I need you to do this but do you know what it is. No I just know we need it done but we got to have timelines to make sure if we start doing things everybody is in a certain role how they do things and they aren’t stepping back over each other or tearing something up in the process, it has to go like clockwork. That’s kind of the direction we are going with it. Let’s see Meridian Youth Baseball. We have been approached I’ve had some small discussions about what development might be coming next on the west of Settlers Park and some other areas and I’m still just kind of curious to see how this shakes out. Some people do have some money already and they are willing to start Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 6, 2002 Page 21 of 29 developing. Are we going to work with these people and decide who’s going to do what parcel or are we going to go whoever’s got the money to do the parcel they want to do or are they going to get to do that first. We kind of got to figure out which way we are going to go on that. I don’t want to slow anybody down it they got money I want to jump into it and get it going. I think several of these sites can be developed either way. Its just a matter of kind of putting together to whose going to go to which one and then okay well the lets run the partnership and lets go after it. The actual tag of whose going to do what site is a little bit up in the air and would like to nail that down. Those groups come forth and say well I want to do this site and the other one comes and I want to do this other site at least we know kind of know where they want to go. Then we can get some direction from Council on what’s sites are okay to develop with what then we’ll feel comfortable about going there. Corrie: Elroy the Meridian Youth Baseball group what size are we talking about that they are going to need. Huff: Are you talking about how much stuff they want to put in there? Corrie: Yes how much space two, five, ten acres? Huff: Seven small, I don’t know what the acreage is exactly I lost that figure, but seven small hardball fields and two Babe Ruth size fields. I just can’t remember the acreage that we (inaudible) Bird: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Yes. Bird: What we got left at Settlers Park they can put in the deal and put it in and have. It’s about 21 or 25 acres they need. Huff: That’s what I left out there. Bird: That’s what was originally planned in that park was a baseball complex like that to put in the deal. The nice thing with their group or with the Lions Club is we don’t have to draw an agreement. We’ve got an agreement in front of us it is called the Boise Noon Optimist one that is perfect for that which all we would have to do is change the names. It gives all the details of who does what and who’s responsible for what. It’s been very, very successful in fact, it’s been so successful I think they just drew up another one to include the next 26 acres for the Optimist program over in Boise. These guys are out raising money and stuff. I for one believe that Settlers Park was bought by the people as a sports park. To my knowledge there is no sports in the first phase at all other then green space. I think this is ideal. They are ready to go. They put in a parking lot help Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 6, 2002 Page 22 of 29 us we could do adventure island in there too. That kind of fills up our park fast and furious. Huff: We’ll do that. Bird: And I think soccer can. This is my personal opinion. I think soccer can marry up with the rodeo grounds a lot better because you know the weekend or two weekends that the Lions club needs extra parking on the grass on a soccer field isn’t going to hurt it. You know Nampa did it for years over at Lake View Park for a whole week parked cars in there and it never hurt it. I think and in baseball, you couldn’t because you’d start tearing fences down. Huff: Well you got too many obstacles. Bird: So it would be my suggestion to strictly put those offered to the Meridian Youth Baseball Program, the remaining Phase 2 of the deal and in having set the specs and drop the agreement that’s my personal feelings and let them go. I know their schedule is to try and start next spring. Huff: Right. They do have some preliminary computerized drawings they are working on a lot of stuff. I’ve seen some of those of how things are going to fit or (inaudible) will fit the best. I’m just kind of looking at those as they come down. That’s just a development that happened the last week or two, that one there. They do have some money, which is good. Nary: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: I’m guess I’m sort of hearing two things as well as what Elroy is telling us is that there’s – I guess a desire from the Parks Department to have some direction as to I think what you stated as whether or not its first come first serve. Who brings the money and if they get to pick the ground they’d like to use. I guess I would like some input from the Parks Commission as to what they think in looking at the overall structure and the Parks that we have both available now and in the immediate future. What would fit best where for what type of use it’s going to be? I mean I agree with what Mr. Bird is saying. I always envisioned that’s what Settlers Park was for was for baseball fields. Adventure Island seems a nice marriage with that it does make sense to have PAL and the rodeo grounds together. All those things make sense to me but I guess I’d like someone and I think that’s the Parks Commission to do that. Is looking at all the ground that is available and giving us a recommendation as where they think these things should go. The other thing I guess, we haven’t talked about very much is the maintenance cost to the city and what its going to be. I don’t know, I can’t recall on the Optimist Agreement with the City of Boise but on some of this ground, I’m thinking the City is going to incur the long-term maintenance costs. Mowing the Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 6, 2002 Page 23 of 29 grass, repairing the fences or maybe some of it will be (inaudible) by the organization and some of it will be worked by the city. I guess that is another piece that we haven’t talked about a great length that I’m aware of as to if these baseball fields come online next summer what impact is that going to be on the Parks budget in having to maintain those fields. Or are they going to be maintained during the season by the organization then after the season by the city of how’s that going to be accomplished. That’s the other piece we haven’t seen a lot of but I anticipate we can bear that cost but I just don’t know what it is. We haven’t talked about it a great deal but each one of these facilities is going to have some long term maintenance cost to it, to the city and I just wanted to know what that was or at least give us a projection on what that is going to end up being. Huff: Each one of those that we take over of construction when that’s over and let’s say we take over the total management of that. Each one of those will be different depending on the amenities that are in them as well as the acreage and the obstacles all those things have that. The only way that I can tell what that is going to take is once I have all the engineered plans then I can take that site plan and I can usually figure what the maintenance costs will be down to an hourly basis. Then there are some things that are just budgeted, you have to budget for and you don’t know how ground maintenance is going to come up but they will. This is definitely going to impact our budget. It has already this coming year and with the development of some other sites it will be a little bit soft in this coming year depending on how much development we do. I’ll have to structure my budgeting in the spring and over the winter and in the spring to how I see these things developed as how I’ll have to come back to the budget with you with how I project I think they are going to be. I’ll give you any hard figures but I have a sense for it and do have ways to figure out what it takes to do it. Bird: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I do know that at the Optimist that we do the Optimist Football Club does put out money for maintenance. How much do you spend on the Meridian American Legion Field in maintenance a year? Huff: We don’t do anything that, the irrigation system waters by itself. We do light weed control mostly mowing and some sprinkler stuff. It’s very inexpensive. We are lucky there cause we get help from Legion officers. Bird: That’s just what you get from the groups like Meridian baseball. Huff: Yes so we do get some help from and the school district and different things on those sports fields and we may very well get some of that on Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 6, 2002 Page 24 of 29 organization with Meridian Youth and things like that to soften that up so we are not you know taking that whole hit. Corrie: Are we still looking at that ice area out there as well? Huff: I’ll tell you that I have met yet with anybody from ice rink. I don’t know those people and I want to meet with them and find out where they are with some stuff. I have not met with any representative with PAL soccer. There are a few entities that I have not touched base yet with. I’m going there on all those to try and reopen those things and kind of see where that dialog and see where they are at. That is coming up pretty quick. Corrie: Okay. Mrs. de Weerd. th De Weerd: September 17 we met with the Lions and Meridian Youth Baseball and made a commitment to them that we would have an agreement made up within a month and it doesn’t seem like we have even met with the groups. They are already 20 percent fundraised they’ve started they did that in good faith. My concern is we haven’t followed up on our end of it. We haven’t got them to the table. We haven’t met with PAL because when we change the design of Settlers Park to partner with PAL it was said well that’s not the design that we had at the time so we want to hold a public comment period which we did now we are going to change it back. PAL needs to come to the table with Meridian Youth Baseball and say this is what we are going to do if that’s the recommendation of the Commission and that’s the recommendation of our Parks liaison but we owe it to this group who has gone out in good faith and started fundraising to expedite where there location is going to be per the memo we got from our city attorney. We haven’t even purchased the Borup property to even be talking to them about possibly locating there facilities out there is also premature. It again looks like Settlers Park seems to be the best place to put them. We need to follow through on the actions that we told that group over a month and half ago that we need to bring PAL and baseball together discuss intentions and at least get Meridian Youth Baseball a letter of intent to show that we will work with them and get them the ground at this point we are not sure the location but we are committed to doing it. I would like to set a date so that we know this follow up is happening. If th you go back and read our minutes on September 17 that was a commitment we made. Its now even a month and half past and nothing has been done. I know that we don’t have a Parks Director and Elroy it wasn’t on your shoulders it was the responsibility that we assumed and so we can only point the fingers at ourselves. Bird: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Bird. Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 6, 2002 Page 25 of 29 Bird: Tammy is 100 percent right. We have been before the Commission. I thought that Elroy and the baseball group had had a deal. PAL has never been before us to my knowledge requesting the need to have them come before us. We did give them a commitment that we’d get it. They went out and raised money. I personally think that and it has been before the Commission and I can’t vow I have to look at my minutes there but I think the Commission agreed on the second phase of that too. We need to get something drawn up so they can be ready to go once they get the money raised and ready to go and they are out raising money. It’s a way to get our parks developed no cost to us. It’s another 25 acres of park ground that we can get developed without very little to the city. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: Keith is it possible to set a commitment to meet with this group within a certain amount of time. Can you organize that and can we ask that the Mayor at least write a letter of intent to work with a group and the property they need to build their complex. Bird: When we met the other night with the Kiwanis and the other I was under the understanding that we were going to bring the baseball and PAL and them in to but I don’t know what happened on that. I got an email later that said no we just going to bring in those two groups. I have no problem with that and we’ll get a meeting set up with them, the Parks Commission and get it taken care of. Like Mr. Nichols said with a group like Meridian you got the agreement laid for you in the Boise group in Optimist that you all have a copy of and all you have to do is change the names and locations. Corrie: Keith I have a question. Has PAL come and talked to us yet? Bird: No PAL has not. The only thing I heard on the PAL thing was they had contacted Tom and they were interested in greening up some grass or something. They are certainly entitled to some of it and we will be getting the other 25 acres of it out there on Ten Mile as I understand. Huff: Lochsa area. Bird: Yes but if these partners will develop the ground for us and stuff, and help with the maintenance. Baseball people want to maintain it themselves they don’t want, you know they want to maintain it and do it themselves and I’m sure the soccer people do to and the rodeo grounds. Its just a win win situation and Tammy is 100 percent right we’ve let it slide for a month and half and we will get it set up and get a meeting with them and get them in here within the next week. Huff: I would be glad to help with that. Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 6, 2002 Page 26 of 29 Bird: I know you would Elroy. De Weerd: Keith could we get an update next week. Bird: You can get an update next Tuesday at the Pre-Council. De Weerd: And that PAL will be contacted. Bird: I’ll contact PAL or Elroy. One of us. De Weerd: And can we at least get the ball rolling with the letter of intent with Meridian Youth Baseball. Bird: Yes lets do that. Corrie: Who are you talking to me or him? Bird: I’m talking to the Mayor. De Weerd: Talking to you. Corrie: I thought you were talking to him. De Weerd: He was just answering for you. Bird: I was just answering for you. Corrie: I can see the conversations going on here but I don’t know quite who is talking to who. Okay yes we can do that. Okay. Huff: I won’t keep you too much longer. I don’t have to many other things. I wanted to let you know that I am just working on the Settlers Park bathroom project as well as Bear Creek. Then we are working a little bit with the architect on Phase 2 Storey construction project, see where we are going to land on that and what the costs will be and see where are money is going to take us as responsible as we can. I got those things all going on and some of those are going to come out to bid and they are going to be ready to go out to bid late January right about in there they will be ready by then and about 500 other things I’m working on. De Weerd: We really loaded your plate full. Bird: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Bird. Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 6, 2002 Page 27 of 29 Bird: Elroy, when you get the final drawings of the Storey Park Phase 2 would you make sure that Western Ada and the chamber get to see them. Huff: Oh sure. In fact, I was speaking with some people from Legion Baseball today about that project coming up and the fact that we have to coordinate with Western Ada because they have a lease across that area that we want to work on. There isn’t anything we can’t do without talking to everybody so we need more of a Conceptual Site Plan. We had a very Conceptual Plan on that we are working on getting the real one going and seeing what are costs are going to be to have that plan totally done. Then we will see how much that is going to cost by the estimates and we will decide how much of that we can do or what we will do from that point and be responsible about how to attack that second phase of that and how we will spend that money. I have a hunch looking at what we need to do there with drainage and different things 150 might not go as far as I want. Whatever it is we still intend to build good things and if it means that we don’t build because we need to add some to it and carry it the next year we will do that too. We’re making good plans on how we do things but I’ve got a whole bunch of set of plans that are all going to get built pretty soon. As soon as they are done we will sure know where we are going but I appreciate your comments on partnership and yours to Keith. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: Storey Park is a great example of a partnership and Mr. Bird mentioned two entities. We also have American Legion and the speedway out there. If we could just make sure our communication with all of those partners is included in these plan reviews that would certainly be beneficial out there. Huff: I have a conceptual little bit of revisions of the site plans a little more detail I will get back next week and then we will be able to speak with speedway but I want all of those things to be conducive for the uses out there. Landscape and all those kinds of things, everybody can use that area like they have been using and so far everybody has been really cooperative in our preliminary talks about the development of Phase 2. Anything else? Bird: Thank you Elroy. Huff: I’ll catch up with you Bill. I have a bunch of stuff for you. Bird: I’ll get a hold you tomorrow regarding getting with Meridian Youth. Huff: Okay I appreciate that and we’ll make those contacts right of way. Corrie: Okay thank you Elroy. Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 6, 2002 Page 28 of 29 Item 7. Discussion of MUBS: Corrie: The only other items left in discussion of MUBS. Bird: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Bird. Bird: I brought that forward for the fact that as a Mayor and Council we need to take a look at putting MUBS under the direction of the Financial Department. As you all know we probably have, that’s probably our largest money income within the city. That’s something that I think we all have to think about and bring it forward. I believe our auditors last year and their recommendations. One of their recommendations was to bring it back under the financial hospices. That’s why its on here is so that if the other Council people have something to say regarding that but I just feel it handles a lot of money. I believe it needs to be under hospice of the Financial Department and as far as the payment and stuff, we can work that out. We know they are an enterprise fund and the other people are a tax-based fund so we can work that out. Its been done before. Corrie: We are over our time its seven. I would like to hold that discussion till maybe next time. I’d like to meet with each one of you. I have my one belief on that one. Like I said I think we are five minutes into the regular meeting. We can put that on the agenda maybe next meeting and I can discuss that with whenever they get done on that one and have a meeting with them. With Council’s approval, we can. That’s my suggestion so. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I guess if we do postponed discussion on this till next week if the two department heads that would be effected by this would also be here to participate I see that Rick is here tonight. If Stacy could also be on hand and maybe Gary so they can give their comments and what they would think of that kind of a change. I think that would be very helpful. Corrie: I agree that’s one of the reasons that I would like to have it next time other then tonight not here. Okay with that being the case, everybody has agreed to do that then. I will entertain a motion then to close the Pre-Council Meeting at this point. McCandless: So moved. Bird: Second. Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting November 6, 2002 Page 29 of 29 Corrie: All in favor of the motion say aye. Opposed no? Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 7:09 P.M. (TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) APPROVED: / / ROBERT D. CORRIE, MAYOR DATE ATTESTED: WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., CITY CLERK