Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAbout2002 11-12 Meridian City Council Meeting November 12, 2002 The Regular Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:00 P.M., on Tuesday, November 12, 2002, by Mayor Robert D. Corrie. Members Present: Mayor Robert Corrie, Tammy de Weerd, Keith Bird, and William Nary. Members Absent: Cherie McCandless. Others Present: Bill Nichols, Sharon Smith, Mike Worley, Brad Hawkins-Clark, Brad Watson, Joe Silva, Gary Smith, Stacy Kilchenmann, Dean Willis and Will Berg. Item 1. Roll-call Attendance: Roll call. __X Tammy de Weerd _ X__ Bill Nary O Cherie McCandless __X Keith Bird __X__ Mayor Robert Corrie Corrie: Okay. I will open the City Council Regular Meeting on Tuesday, November 12, 2002, at 7:05 P.M. and ask the City Clerk if she would give the roll call, please. Item 2: Adoption of the Agenda: Corrie: Okay. Thank you. Council, Item Number 2 is the adoption of the agenda. We th did get a letter from a couple of people today that they would like to table until the 19 -- th excuse me -- be the 19 of November, Items G, H and I on the Consent Agenda. I believe there was a request by White Peterson to hold the Resolution Number 6 on the th Regular Agenda until the 19 to finish up the writing of the contract. Then the letter th from the Christian Church on Items 11 and 12, to continue that hearing until the 19, I believe. Okay. Is there any other -- on the agenda? Changes? Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I'd move we adopt the agenda, with these changes of -- on the Consent Agenda, Items G and H, Sundance Place Subdivision, to table them to November 19, 2002, and also Item I for Bridgetower Crossing, table that to November 19, 2002. The Resolution regarding our civil contract with our attorneys, to extend that to November 19, 2002 and the Public Hearings for Items 11, 12, and -- 11 and 12 for the Cherry Lane Christian Church, to table them until November 19, 2002. With those changes I would move the adoption of the agenda. Nary: Second. Meridian City Council November 12, 2002 Page 2 of 48 Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded to approve the agenda with the adoptions. Is there any further discussion? Okay. Hearing none, roll call vote. Roll call vote: McCandless, absent; Nary, aye; DeWeerd, aye; Bird, aye. Corrie: Okay. All ayes. One absent. Motion is approved. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT Item 3. Consent Agenda: A. September 3, 2002 Approve minutes of Pre-Council Meeting: B. September 3, 2002 Approve minutes of City Council Regular Meeting: C. September 17, 2002 Approve minutes of Pre-Council Meeting: D. September 19, 2002 Approve minutes of City Council Special Meeting: E. September 24, 2002 Approve minutes of Pre-Council Meeting: F. October 2, 2002 Approve minutes of City Council Special Meeting: G. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: AZ 02- 016 Request for annexation and zoning of 42.72 acres from RUT Sundance Place Subdivision to R-8 zones for proposed byG.L. Voigt Development – east of North Meridian Road and north of East Ustick Road: H. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: PP 02- 010 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 144 building lots and 5 other lots on 42.72 acres in a proposed R-8 zone for proposed Sundance Place Subdivision by G.L. Voigt Development: east of North Meridian Road and north of East Ustick Road: I.Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: PP 02- 014 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 439 building lots and 50 other lots on 209.01 acres in an R-4 zone in a Planned Unit Bridgetower Crossing East Subdivision Development for by Primeland Development – northeast corner of North Ten Mile Road and West Ustick Road: J. Approve Meridian Police Department to apply for Idaho Highway Safety Grant: Meridian City Council November 12, 2002 Page 3 of 48 K. Corrected Water Main Easement for Silverstone Subdivision – Sundance Investments Limited Partnership: Corrie: With that we will move to Item Number 4, that's the Department Reports, Financial Department, Stacy -- no, I'm sorry. Okay. Now we have the approval of the Consent Agenda. Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I move we approve the Consent Agenda with the noted changes of G and H being tabled to November 19, 2002 and Item I being tabled to November 19, 2002 and have the Mayor sign and the Clerk attest where appropriate. De Weerd: Second. Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded. Any further discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote, please. Roll call vote: McCandless, absent; Nary, aye; DeWeerd, aye; Bird, aye. Corrie: All ayes. One absent. Motion carried. Thank you, Mr. Nary. I keep forgetting that for some reason. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT Item 4. Department Reports: A. Finance Department – Stacy Kilchenmann: 1. Finance Report: Corrie: All right. Now, then, we do have the Department Reports. Finance Department, financial report, Stacy Kilchenmann. Stacy. Kilchenmann: Mayor, Members of the Council, the first thing I'd like to do is introduce to the Council members our new I.S. person, who will be the only I.S. person for at least the next three years, that's Mr. Terry Paternoster. He went through -- we had a rigorous interview panel, we actually included somebody from Boise's I.S. staff and Terry passed with flying colors, so we have a long to do list for him already. He's going to be th accomplishing a lot. November 18 is his first day and he's got about 60 things to do. We will also be giving him your phone number to him -- him your phone -- give him -- give you his phone number -- there, I spit it out -- so you can contact him with your questions. We are happy to have you aboard, Terry. Meridian City Council November 12, 2002 Page 4 of 48 Paternoster: Thank you. Kilchenmann: Okay. Turning to the financial statements, just to briefly go through some items. The first one -- these are preliminary statements, as we have not completely finished closing. We still have some accruals to do and we still have payables, actually, th still coming in we have to approve that effective as of September 30, but I wanted to give you a draft statement to kind of let you know what our financial picture looked like. th In the investments, we actually were able -- this is as of September 30, but last week we were able to slide in on a bond, that's over five percent. We moved all -- virtually all of our money out of our Idaho pool and into this bond, which is callable in a year, so we are excited about that, because I think it was like 5.2 percent and that's just -- we were lucky to squeak in on that with such a short maturity. On the financial statements themselves, when we look at the enterprise fund, we do -- in the September statements depreciation is not there, so that's another big item that will be over a million dollars, so if you're comparing the two year ends to each other, that is still missing. There is a couple coding errors, like the parking lot maintenance, the Wastewater Treatment Plant, was coded to expense. We will have to move that to capital outlay, but other than that, nothing of note in the enterprise funds, they all come in -- all come in well under budget on the operating side and still a lot of capital projects that have been budgeted for the last couple years that haven't been completed yet. I did, on your benches, put a utility sales revenue comparison, just for your interest to notice in July what happened on a draft, the trends, when the rates were changed, as Brad has projected, the water went down and the wastewater went up. Brad is also taking the sales and comparing them to the gallons, so it kind of gives us trend analysis or a good feel of how comfortable we can feel with those numbers. That's also a good -- that's something that's done as a part of the audit, we are kind of jumping ahead, and we will do those ourselves. The general fund, actually, there are a few areas that are over budget and then there are areas that are under budget, so overall we come out all right. We have been doing the accruals and I will go through and I will do a variance report for you, so if anything is like ten percent under or over budget, provide an explanation. I think we will probably only have five or six things that are significantly different than budgeted. If you look at the revenue comparisons -- actually, if you look at the bottom line for the budget and year to date, there is 129 dollar difference, but that's kind of -- we still have to do some property tax accruals, so, actually, we are coming out even better on our revenue picture. We were kind of lucky, because some things were under and some things were over, but it sounds good to say we were only 129 dollars off. Planning and Zoning notable -- in fact, the revenue is so much higher than we had originally projected and, remember, that we changed those fees, too so that had a positive impact. The overtime report, fire continues the same trends, but there is savings from the later hiring firefighting statements there, so we don't have any personnel problems. Then the last item of -- in the special reports that I included for you is the Police Department's capital budget for the new building -- or a comparison of the budget to actual. What I did is we took all the capital outlay categories, which includes furniture, computer expenses, so forth, as well as the building cost, and just did a comparison that way. When we did that, we came out 17,000 dollars under budget and I'm still -- I'm still not exactly sure about some of the items from the construction manager, that we have all those in, so that's not a firm, Meridian City Council November 12, 2002 Page 5 of 48 to be sure figure, but hopefully -- they keep assuring me that we have everything in. Then the final other project that we are working on is we have finished inventorying all the surplus property in the fire station and we had the Mayor sign that and we gave Tammy a copy of that and as soon as she approves that, I will make sure that you all each have a copy of it. It's mostly miscellaneous chairs -- orange chairs and metal surplus desks and so forth, and we have already had the Boys and Girls Club identify items, what they want, we will invite the seniors over to look at items they want, and we will offer them to other cities. When we get to the end, will have -- we will take them to the auction and get rid of them. Then we will have to change the code on the door, so everybody doesn't put their junk in there again. Are there any questions? De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I imagine the bank can change the code. Otherwise, you will continue to get our junk. In light of seeing some of these accounts or line items that are over projections and looking at those trends, how does that look for our -- this year's budget? Did we anticipate it significantly or -- Kilchenmann: A couple of items that come to mine right away. One is the police computer expense was dramatically over budget that involved setting up a new server and so now that we have Terry on board, that shouldn't be a problem. The overtime included firemen. We did address that for the 2003, budget and one of the other expenses were the cost for Human Resources to advertise for new positions and that one has -- that was adjusted in the new budget. I think that almost everything that I looked at today has been adjusted or is a one-time nominal. De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Corrie: Any questions of Council? Okay. Thank you, Stacy. Item 5. (Items Moved from Consent Agenda) Corrie: Next is Item Number 5, that's items moved from the Consent Agenda, which we have none at this time. Item 6. Resolution No. : Approving Agreement for the Appointment of William F. Nichols and White, Peterson, Morrow, Gigray, Rossman, Nye & Rossman, P.A., to Perform City Attorney Duties and Civil Legal Services for the City of Meridian: Corrie: Item 6 is a Resolution on the agreement between the appointment of White Peterson as our attorney for civil legal services and we are holding that -- I need to have a motion to have that held until November 19, 2002. Meridian City Council November 12, 2002 Page 6 of 48 Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I move that we table Resolution Number -- the resolution for the approving the agreement with the appointment of White Peterson, et cetera, to our civil legal services to November 19, 2002. De Weerd: Second. Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded. Is there any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the Resolution change -- tabled until November 19, 2002 say aye. Opposed no? All ayes. Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT Item 7. Public Hearing: Property Exchange with Farmers & Merchants State Bank: Corrie: Item Number 7 is a Public Hearing. This is in regards to property exchange with Farmers and Merchants State Bank. At this time, I will open the Public Hearing and we will invite Counsel to give us information on the property exchanges and what we need to do and the proper order to do that. Nichols: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, this is a proposed exchange. Council has approved a proposed Exchange Agreement and according to State Statute has to hold a Public Hearing before any such exchange can be finalized. The exchange contemplates taking the old fire station building behind City Hall here on Meridian Road and exchanging that property for three parcels -- I think it consists of five lots or three parcels that are on East Idaho Avenue, immediately adjacent to the former police station property. The exchange contemplates that those parcels now owned by the bank -- that the structures would be removed, the foundations would be cleared from the premises, that any necessary fill dirt would be brought in and the site would be graded flat, so that it could be put to some future use by the city. The bank is out of pocket I believe 242,740 dollars, if I'm correct, on acquisition of those three parcels. The fire station property has been appraised at 260,000 dollars and I believe Mr. Zimmerman from the bank has information as to what the bank will spend in order to raze those structures of the foundations, bring in the fill and grade the site. At least the preliminary information I had was that that cost would exceed the 17,260 dollars that it takes to make the exchange equal. He can provide that information to you. If, at the conclusion of the hearing, the Council decides that the city is receiving equal value by exchanging the old fire station property for these other parcels, then at the next meeting there would be a resolution to approve that exchange and authorize the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest all necessary documents to proceed with that. That's where we are at, Mr. Mayor. I think that summarizes the proposed exchange and the information Meridian City Council November 12, 2002 Page 7 of 48 there and just need whatever public input, plus whatever additional information the bank has. Corrie: Okay. Thank you. Any questions from Council? Okay. Ed. Sorry. Mr. Zimmerman. Zimmerman: Mayor, Members of the Council -- Corrie: If you could raise your right hand, please. Is the testimony you're about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Zimmerman: It is. Corrie: State your name and address for the record. Zimmerman: My name is Ed Zimmerman. My address is 8864 Rim Road in Nampa, Idaho. The zip is 83686. I am the Executive Vice-President of Farmers and Merchants State Bank and I'm here to represent them. Mayor, Council Members, I will answer any questions you may have of me. Corrie: Okay. Council, any questions? Nary: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: I guess, Mr. Zimmerman, I'm curious from what was stated by Mr. Nichols, is there a -- is there a problem in the difference in the value in getting the buildings razed or there is no -- that's not a problem? Zimmerman: It's not a problem as far as we are concerned. Nary: Okay so the buildings will be razed and graded and all of the foundations removed and all of that? Zimmerman: That's correct. Nary: Okay and then this difference in price that's in the resolution, whatever additional cost, if any, to the bank, will just be absorbed as part of this exchange? Zimmerman: That's our agreement. Yes, sir. Nary: Okay. Nichols: Mr. Mayor? Meridian City Council November 12, 2002 Page 8 of 48 Corrie: Mr. Nichols. Nichols: If I may, before Mr. Zimmerman is done, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, you're looking at an old resolution. It's not -- it's not the one that reflects the current Exchange Agreement. Nary: I understand that. I just wanted to clear on the record that there was no other cash transaction or anything else, it's simply an exchange, with the property all razed and graded and all of that, so the property is -- Zimmerman: Yes, sir. Nary: Okay. Thank you. Nichols: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Nichols. Nichols: Mr. Zimmerman, you have obtained some price quotes and so forth, cost for razing those structures, filling, and grading the sites. Would you share that with the Council, please? Zimmerman: Yes, sir. We are still in the process of getting bids, but the bids that have come in to this point would appear that it's going to run us somewhere between 19 and 22,000 dollars. I will know better once I have the final bids, but we think that it's going to be fairly close value for value. We are doing everything we can, obviously, to try and reduce that expense, but they are going to have to take down all three houses, two of the homes basements, the foundations have to be razed, and the basements have to be taken out. They have bring in fill dirt, they also have to put additional top soil in on top of the fill dirt to make it a clean property, because it's our understanding that the city needs that property for a park or something to go along with the Boys and Girls Club. We are leaving the trees, we are leaving the sidewalks, but we will leave clean property. Corrie: Any other questions? Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I have a question on the sidewalk. Mr. Zimmerman, is that in good shape, the sidewalk down there? Zimmerman: To be honest with you, sir, I can't answer that I question. Meridian City Council November 12, 2002 Page 9 of 48 Bird: I, for one, would just as soon see it tore up if isn't -- if it is not in good shape, if it's lumpy and missing and stuff, I'd just as soon see it tore up. I think that's something that our parks -- Elroy, maybe, could go take a look at, whether it's worth keeping or not. Corrie: Yes that wasn't in the original agreement. That may be extra. I don't know. Zimmerman: It wasn't. No. All the bids we have had at this point did not include removing the sidewalks, because I believe that if the sidewalks are removed, I believe that you would require, then, new sidewalks to be put in. If that's the case, there would be an additional cost to us over and above that that we hadn't anticipated and certainly hadn't considered. Bird: Then we can leave that. Corrie: We can have our parks -- Bird: I would certainly take a look at it, because -- I don't know. I don't think we are 100 percent sure what we are going to do with it down there. Just to make off-street parking, probably wouldn't need sidewalks. If they are in bad shape, they are a liability, once we assume it, which we assume anyway. I don't know, I'd just like to take a look and see if the trees have -- we have got some right out here that the trees are doing that and they are not in very good shape. Zimmerman: The trees are in good shape. They are mature, they have been there a long time, and -- Bird: How many of them are by the sidewalk is what I'm saying, that the roots are starting to take the sidewalk up? We have got some out here that are 10 years old that are taking our sidewalk up right out front. Zimmerman: And, honestly, sir, I can't answer that. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: That was assumed to be one of our responsibilities. You know, that isn't part of the agreement, so that's something we will to ask our staff to follow up on but I think the agreement sounds fair. This is the second Public Hearing we have had on this, so I think that all the I's are dotted and the T's are crossed, so it looks like -- we appreciate you stepping up and also getting those buildings off that land, too. That will make a great difference and help with the liability issue as well. Zimmerman: Thank you. Corrie: Okay. Thank you. Meridian City Council November 12, 2002 Page 10 of 48 Zimmerman: Thank you very much. Corrie: Thank you. Is there anyone else from the audience that would like to issue testimony on this issue? Okay. Council, is there any further questions on the Public Hearing? Bird: I have none, Mayor. Corrie: Hearing none, I will entertain a motion to close the Public Hearing. Nary: So moved. Bird: Second. Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded to close the Public Hearing. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion say aye. All ayes. Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT Corrie: Discussion? Okay. Then I will entertain a motion, then, to have the attorney draw up the -- next being the resolution for the exchange. Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I would move that we direct the attorney to draw up the resolution regarding the exchange of property between Farmers and Merchants State Bank and the City of Meridian. De Weerd: Second. Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded. Any further discussion? Roll call vote, Mrs. Clerk. Roll call vote: McCandless, absent; Nary, aye; DeWeerd, aye; Bird, aye. Corrie: All ayes. Motion carried. Thank you, Mr. Zimmerman. Appreciate your helping us. It's been a long and arduous road so glad we are getting it done. Thank you. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT. Item 8. TE 02-006 Request for a Time Extension on the Final Plat approval for Heartwood Subdivision by Heartwood LLC -- northwest corner of West th Franklin Road and North 10 Street: Meridian City Council November 12, 2002 Page 11 of 48 Corrie: Okay. Item Number 8 on the agenda is request for a Time Extension of the Final Plat approval for Heartwood Subdivision, by Heartwood, LLC, northwest corner of West Franklin Road and North 10th Street. Staff comments first. Hawkins-Clark: Thank you, Mayor, Members of the Council. The request before you is for the construction -- commencing the construction and recording the final plat for this property that's highlighted on the screen. It's on West Franklin Road on the north side. th They are -- near North 10 Street. The letter that was submitted to us by Pinnacle Engineers, stated that originally the tenant was intended to occupy the lot when they platted. That particular tenant pulled out, so they are now waiting to proceed on installing their subdivision improvements until another tenant is found. They do not anticipate needing any more than the one-year to begin construction of the improvements and to record the Final Plat. City Council approved the Final Plat about a year ago, so they have met the one-year deadline to request the extension so staff's recommending approval. Corrie: Okay. Any questions from Council? Is the representative from Heartwood here this evening? Give us your name and address for the record, please. Boyle: Clint Boyle with Pinnacle Engineers. I don't know if I have to be sworn in or not, but the address 12552 West Executive Drive, Boise, Idaho 83713. Staff pretty much explained it. I think you have the letter. Originally, they had a tenant in mind for the site and due to some economic conditions that weren't foreseen, that tenant has backed out and now they are marketing the site again. The improvements on this are actually pretty minor, so they will be able to proceed with the improvements in the plat fairly quickly. There are a couple of just minor utility extensions. The sidewalk improvements are in along Franklin Road, so as far as improvements go, it isn't going to take that much time and they certainly are striving to have this plat recorded and have a tenant in place within the next year and respectfully request your approval of a one year extension on the Final Plat approval. Corrie: Okay. Thank you. Any questions? Okay. Thank you. Boyle: Thank you. Corrie: Okay. Hearing none -- evidently, there are no questions of the Council. I will entertain a motion on the request for extension of Final Plat. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I move that we approve the extension within one year of the original approval dated October 16, 2001, to extend that to October 16, 2003, and ask the attorney to draw up findings to reflect that. Meridian City Council November 12, 2002 Page 12 of 48 Bird: Second. Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded. Is there any further discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote, Mrs. Clerk. Roll call vote: McCandless, absent; Nary, aye; DeWeerd, aye; Bird, aye. Corrie: Okay. All Ayes. One absent. Motion is approved. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT Item 9. Public Hearing: MI 02-010 R.T. Nahas Request for a private road by -- southeast corner of South Progress Avenue and South Industry Way: Corrie: Item Number 9 is a Public Hearing. This is a request for a private road by R. T. Nahas. Excuse me, southeast corner of South Progress Avenue and South Industry Way. At this time I will open the Public Hearing and staff comments first. Hawkins-Clark: Mayor, Members of the Council, the request before you is submitted for -- by R.T. Nahas Company. They are requesting approval of a new private street to serve three existing commercial lots. Again, this is the Home Depot parcel here immediately to the west, South Industry Way circles around to the north. The three subject lots are here just on the north side of I-84. This is an existing landscape strip. It's a common lot. They have -- and I believe our photo here should reflect it -- this is the entrance off of Industry Way looking east and as you can see some of the existing landscaping here. In terms of the existing conditions out there, there are parking -- designated off-street parking areas here on the south side, so, essentially, what they have here is a private driveway today that comes in and serves Lee Reed Jewelers back here and, of course, these two are currently undeveloped, so it's just a long private driveway. The Planning and Zoning Department and Public Works Department staff have had conversations and received some initial plans for a furniture retail store here on this -- shown as parcel B. What we understand the reason for the request to be is primarily just one of identification with the name. South Industry Way is less appealing for the retailers than what they are proposing as East Sonata Lane. Our ordinance requires the Council to approve all private streets. They, essentially, have come through now with an application to do that, in order for emergency services to have some kind of record that these parcels are now not on Industry Way, even though Lee Reed has had that address for a couple of years now. It would be changing to an East Sonata Lane address, so we are essentially, you know, wanting to make sure the public record has this straight for our emergency services folks. Our standard conditions for private streets, we really, typically, require them to be constructed to ACHD standards. The applicant, hopefully, can address that tonight. We have recommended that either it be constructed to ACHD standards or that our Public Works Department approves the design in terms of the anticipated uses on that. Other than that, we have just recommended that they submit an easement, because there is no cross-access easements that are in place right now for -- to serve all three of these parcels. Meridian City Council November 12, 2002 Page 13 of 48 Essentially, the Lee Reed parcel would be landlocked without a cross-access easement so we are asking for that easement to be recorded and submitted to us. Other than th that, I think -- just ask that our November 12 memo conditions be included in any motion you make. Corrie: Okay. Questions from staff? Nary: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: Just so I understand, Brad, essentially, what you're saying construct it to ACHD standards, is there going to be any change in what's there, other than marking that as a street and not a driveway? Hawkins-Clark: We do not anticipate that. From what's been submitted in the application, no. It's, essentially, just turning that driveway into an actual street name. Nary: All right. Thank you. Corrie: This is a Public Hearing. Is the applicant here this evening? Okay. Is the testimony you're about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Reed: Yes, it is. Corrie: Give your name and address, please. Reed: Larry Reed, Lee Reed Jewelers. My address is 3718 North Sawgrass, 83704, in Boise. Corrie: Anything you want to -- Reed: I do. Mr. Mayor and Members of the Council, I have been asked by Bob Nahas to come and speak to you. He was unavailable tonight, so I can address a couple of the questions that -- we currently do have a recorded Cross-Traffic Agreement that runs -- that currently runs from here all the way to here and along here. We anticipated this problem, being landlocked right there, and I think in the recommendations that Planning and Zoning has come with, the only thing that isn't recorded right now is a section that would continue along this area, which I'm not sure that that would be needed as such. The other information -- and this is what I was provided by Mr. Nahas, is the ACHD has provided -- provided a document saying that no site improvements would be attributed to this application. We have -- have had the street name evaluated and signed off on by all of the appropriate parties, which I think, was Number 4 on that. Then the second item I believe was -- or the third item was that the Fire Department didn't feel that there Meridian City Council November 12, 2002 Page 14 of 48 was a problem and we do have a letter from them saying that they have no objections to the new streets. I think -- I think we are meeting all of the criteria there. Corrie: Okay. Any questions from Council of Mr. Reed? Thank you very much, Larry. Reed: Thank you. Corrie: Since this is a Public Hearing, is there anyone from the public that would like to issue testimony on this? All right. Thank you. Council, any other discussion that you want to have on the Public Hearing? De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I move we close the Public Hearing. Bird: Second. Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded to close the Public Hearing on Item MI 02-010. Any further discussion? All those in favor of the motion say aye. Opposed no? All ayes. Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT Corrie: Any further discussion? Okay. I'll entertain a motion, then, on the request for a private road by R.T. Nahas, southeast corner of South Progressive Avenue and South Industry Way. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I move we approve the request for a private roadway by R.T. Nahas and to include all staff comments, including the Planning and Zoning memorandum, dated November 12, 2002, and ask the attorney to draw up Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law and Decision of Order. Bird: Second. Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made for approval. Any further discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote, Mrs. Clerk. Roll call vote: McCandless, absent; Nary, aye; DeWeerd, aye; Bird, aye. Corrie: All ayes present. Motion for approval is approved. Meridian City Council November 12, 2002 Page 15 of 48 MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT Item 10. Public Hearing: CUP 02-025 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a wireless communications facility consisting of a 125 foot monopole and Verizon Wireless supporting equipment in an I-L zone for by Mericom Corporation – 3735 North Ten Mile Road: Corrie: Item Number 10 is a Public Hearing. This is a request for Conditional Use Permit for a wireless communications facility consisting of a 125 monopole and supporting equipment in an I-L zone for Verizon Wireless by Mericom Corporation, 3735 North Ten Mile Road. At this time I will open the Public Hearing and invite staff's comments first. Hawkins-Clark: Mayor, Members of the Council, to orient you, here is North Ten Mile Road and the Wastewater Treatment Plant is this large triangular shaped east and south. The Ten Mile Mini Storage is currently constructed on the outlying parcel. The Creason Lateral does more or less follow this bold line here on the south boundary of the Mini Storage parcel. That's the parcel that we are talking about. The request is for a 125-foot tall steel monopole and all of its supporting equipment. The leased area that is here that is being leased by the applicant is -- just to give you an idea, is about 900 square feet. This is the main access -- paved access road that's coming out Ten Mile over here, so you come down the paved access road and then they have this gravel area with a proposed building that would house their equipment and then the tower itself would be here on the south boundary. It is about 650 feet off of Ten Mile Road and it is behind this storage building here. It's fairly screened from Ten Mile Road. They are proposing for a 12-by-28 pre-fabricated building, which, again, is here in the center, to be enclosed in a six-foot tall chain link fence. The tower itself is proposed to be co- located, meaning that it would have -- it would be designed to allow at minimum -- or at least two other communication companies to co-locate their antennas on the same facility to avoid duplication of poles. The reason that you're seeing it tonight, we do have -- as you may recall, Planning and Zoning Commission has recommended approval of a wireless facility -- wireless communications ordinance. You should be seeing that soon. We, basically, in crafting our conditions, used that -- that ordinance, which the Planning and Zoning Commission has recommended approval of to kind of recommend conditions on this Conditional Use. Otherwise, it's requiring a Conditional Use, since it's really not dealt with in our current schedule of use control. The Planning and Zoning Commission did recommend approval of the permit -- of the application. They did ask that it be painted a -- sort of a mat, earthen color, and they also asked that the climbing pegs that are on the tower itself be taken off the first 20 feet and only used when they have to do maintenance and whatnot on the pole itself. That is also part of our proposed wireless communications ordinance. We have not, to my knowledge, received any written input since the Planning and Zoning Commission recommended approval of this, so we just recommended adoption of the Commission's conditions. Meridian City Council November 12, 2002 Page 16 of 48 Corrie: Thank you, Brad. Any questions? Okay. Is the applicant here this evening? Is the testimony you're about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? McFaddan: Yes, it is. Corrie: Name and address, please. McFaddan: My name is Cameron McFaddan. My address is 7819 West Priest Drive in Boise, Idaho. 83704. Excuse me. I work for Mericom Corporation. We are the development services representative for Verizon Wireless and a few other wireless carriers in this area. In this case I will be speaking for Verizon Wireless. As mentioned by staff, we are proposing to construct a 125-foot monopole, enclosed in our lease area, which is roughly 16 feet by 56 feet. The shelter that we are going to install has actually changed since we submitted the application, due to changes in requirements mainly th brought about by September 11, Verizon now has a 12 foot by 30 foot shelter, which includes a generator, so it would be two feet longer. It is accommodated in our lease area and I'm told that poses no problem, but I did want to be clear on that point. In siting these locations for these communications facilities, of course, esthetics are a big item, and it is going to be addressed in Meridian's future Wireless Ordinance, which I was privy to review in relation to this application. It's fortunate in my case that we do fit exceptionally well within the new ordinance, as well as the current regulations. The Ten Mile storage has actually constructed a new storage facility, which will completely encircle our electronics shelter. You can see the -- what was, then, the existing building is pictured to the east of us. Well, now that actually continues on. The only exposed piece of equipment is going to be the monopole. Of course, you can't hide a 125-foot monopole, but we have made arrangements to paint it as recommended by Planning and Zoning Commission. We are going to match it to the buildings that are -- they are a brown color -- I call them a brown, at least. I'm not sure if that's technically correct. The one question we had at Planning and Zoning related to the painting is how often will we have to paint it. The city would like to condition us to make sure that it doesn't become an eye sore, because painting is a maintenance issue and many jurisdictions don't allow us to paint them because of that. I'm told by the manufacturers that eight to 10 years is what the State of Idaho -- or at least the Boise valley is rated at for paint. If the Council would like to condition us to paint it once every eight years, once every 10 years, of course, it would be perfectly acceptable in order to maintain, you know, a nice, clean facility. Also, as mentioned by staff, it will accommodate two future co-locators. Different companies like different separation between their antennas and another antenna, so approximately they will be located about the 110 and 95-foot levels on the 125-foot pole. All of the equipment will be painted. Any exterior co-axial cable that might run on the tower will be painted to match the tower. All the antennas and panels will be painted to match the tower as well. Along those lines, we will comply with any and all rules and regulations, including all governing bodies, the FCC, the FAA, the state and local rules that apply to us. We are heavily regulated in this industry and, as you know, this is -- in the City of Meridian, Section 11-17-3 is the general standard for a CUP, which applies to this application, and we do meet them. I lumped them all Meridian City Council November 12, 2002 Page 17 of 48 together, basically, in three categories. The first is esthetic, are we harmonious with the surrounding environment. We are. We have a very nice location. Financial, I lumped that together. Are we going to be a burden on city services, are we going to cause any kind of financial burden on the city. No. In this case, as a matter of fact, it should produce some revenue for the city. There is no water or anything like that. It's unmanned, so we don't have any use to have people there. There should be no financial burden. Finally, as I touched on last, the legal issues, we will be complying with all the FCC, building regulations, building codes, and, of course, we will. With that, I'd ask for your approval and stand for any questions that you might have. Corrie: Questions from Council? Okay. Very good. Thank you very much. McFaddan: Thank you. Corrie: Is there anyone else from the public that would like to issue testimony at this time? Okay. Hearing none, Council, any further discussion on the Public Hearing? Bird: I have none, Mayor. Corrie: Okay. If no one has any, I'll entertain a motion to close the Public Hearing. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I guess I just wanted to make note, in reading the minutes from the Planning and Zoning Meeting. I appreciated that they gave an example of the height of it, since my backyard used to host the 300 foot tower between Linder and Ten Mile, this gave it some proportionate height and this is a very good location for it. It's not going to be as obnoxious as that one, which it does impede on our skyline. Also, as mentioned during that meeting as well, appreciate the ability to co-locate other servers on that, so we don't have towers all over the place. You tried to do a lot of things right and this is a good location for it. We do appreciate that. With that, I would move that we close the Public Hearing. Bird: Second. Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded to close the Public Hearing. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor I aye. All ayes. Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT Corrie: Any other discussion? Okay. I will entertain a motion on the request for the Conditional Use Permit. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Meridian City Council November 12, 2002 Page 18 of 48 Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I move that we approve the request for Conditional Use Permit for a wireless communications facility, consisting of a 125-foot monopole and supporting equipment in an I-L zone for Verizon Wireless. To include all staff comments, and to add to the Planning and Zoning recommendations for maintenance to paint every eight years and ask the attorney to draw up Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision of Order. Bird: I second that, but to add to it the revamping of the building. The building -- De Weerd: Yes. Bird: Okay. I will second it. Corrie: With that, any further discussion? Nary: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: I'm not sure if they could hear that, Mr. Bird, on what the amendment was. Bird: The amendment was that the building -- the maintenance building is increasing by two feet in length. It's going to be 12 by 30. De Weerd: Just to reflect that modification that the applicant testified to. Corrie: Any other discussion? Okay. Roll call vote, Mr. Berg. Roll call vote: McCandless, absent; Nary, aye; DeWeerd, aye; Bird, aye. Corrie: Okay. All ayes. Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT Item 11. Public Hearing: RZ 02-003 Request for a Rezone of 4 acres from R-4 to Cherry Lane Christian Church L-O zones for by Cherry Lane Christian Church – 2511 West Cherry Lane: Item 12. Public Hearing: CUP 02-027 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a Preschool and school to prepare children for Kindergarten and move up one grade a year in existing classrooms and existing building in a Cherry Lane Christian Church proposed L-O zone for by Cherry Lane Christian Church – 2511 West Cherry Lane: Meridian City Council November 12, 2002 Page 19 of 48 Corrie: Before I go to the next Public Hearing, here in the front, are you scouts? Good. What troop? 230? Oh, 30. I'm sorry. Age. Got to wear a hearing aid. Well, welcome here tonight. Sorry. I didn't recognize you earlier. Get too much business here. Thank you for coming and hope you enjoy the Council Meeting. Item Numbers 11 and 12 has th been requested to hold that Public Hearing -- continue it until September 19 of 2000. Is there anyone here tonight that came to testify that would like to still testify or would th they like to wait until the 19? Okay. Council, then, I will entertain a motion to continue the Public Hearing on Item Numbers 11 and 12 to the Cherry Lane Christian Church by the Cherry Lane Christian Church, 2511 West Cherry Lane. Bird: Do you want them one at a time or do them both? Corrie: Both. Yes. Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I would move that we continue the Public Hearing RZ 02-003, the rezone of four acres from an R-4 to an L-O zone for the Cherry Lane Christian Church and also CUP 02-027, a request for a Conditional Use Permit for a preschool and school to prepare children for kindergarten by the Cherry Lane Christian Church to November 19th, 2002. Nary: Second. Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded to continue the Public Hearing on Item Number 11, request for rezone, and also Number 12, a CUP permit for a preschool. Any further discussion? All those in favor of the motion say aye. All ayes. Motion carried. We will have that continued Public Hearing next Tuesday night. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT Item 13. Public Hearing: CUP 02-026 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a Carl’s Jr. 3901 square foot restaurant with a drive-thru in a C-G zone by Clayton Jones – on South Main Street, north of the Meridian Road and Main Street intersection: Corrie: Item Number 13. This is a Public Hearing, 02-026. This is a request for a Conditional Use Permit for a 3,901 square foot Carl's Junior Restaurant with a drive-thru in a C-G zone by Clayton Jones on South Main Street, north of Meridian Road and Main Street intersection. At this time, I will open the Public Hearing and how many people that are here tonight to testify? Okay. With that, the applicant will have five minutes to give his request for the Conditional Use Permit and then the rest of you will have three minutes to give your testimony, too. At this time, I will ask the staff to start the Public Hearing. Meridian City Council November 12, 2002 Page 20 of 48 Hawkins-Clark: Thank you, Mayor, Members of the Council. The request here is for a Conditional Use for a new drive-thru restaurant, 39 -- approximately 3,900 square feet. The subject parcel is the southerly of these two that are both -- both owned by the same property owner, G&H Enterprises does own them both. The northerly one here has, of course, the Bolo's and the Taco Bell and the southerly one has the recently constructed KFC-A&W and then this new proposed Carl's Junior Restaurant. We are at the intersection of Meridian Road and Main Street and Central Drive. When that -- when the new A&W-KFC Restaurant received approval from City Council on their Conditional Use Permit, one of the conditions was to abandon the drive-thru use of the existing KFC, which, again, we have kind of changed orientation here. We are looking -- looking through -- the top of the page is looking west. The existing vacant KFC building is here and the Council's condition was that they abandon the drive-thru. That Conditional Use Permit did not say that there was a prohibition on any future new buildings it simply addressed the drive-thru. That allowed staff to accept and process their application here for this new building. The site plan here has been modified a couple of times since the original one that they submitted. They did modify it to, Number 1, increase the number of parking spaces that are on the overall parcel and, again, we are talking about a Planned Development here, because there are two buildings on a single parcel. One of the other main modifications that was made at the request of the Planning and Zoning Commission, here on Meridian Road, this entrance, there is a small island and a raised median that's approximately 55 feet long at this entrance point into the site. This is the sole entrance point off of Meridian Road. The Taco Bell Restaurant is here. If you read the minutes of the P&Z Commission hearing, you saw that there was a lot of discussion about the congestion on the site parking on the site, and that was one of the issues that were asked of the applicant. They did go to the Highway District. Joe Rosenland, the Traffic Engineer over there, did review this median, he says that this separation that it provides at the entrance to kind of guide the Taco Bell drive-thru and kind of steer these -- steer these folks in and around the drive-thru bend, which is here. The menu order board, I believe, is at this location and then they would come around to the east side and then pick up here. There is another exit onto Main Street here on the east side. Again, the parking and circulation were big concerns for the Planning and Zoning Commission. Mr. Gibbs, the owner, did testify at the Planning and Zoning Commission to acquire -- that he was working to acquire 24 stalls at either John's Automotive, which is here on Meridian Road, on the west side of Meridian Road, and/or other locations on the west side of Meridian Road for employees. Again, they are having 50 stalls on the site, with another 24 off site, is what was agreed to there. I think the only other condition to point out to you that the Commission made in their recommendation was Number 12 on Page 3, which I guess I did talk about that, that was the applicant had to negotiate with ACHD on that ingress-egress issue off Meridian Road and submit something in writing that ACHD was okay with that. They did complete that condition. I will just give you the approval of the -- if you do move on the site plan, since there are a couple in the record, I would point out it's the one that is th received November 12 by this Clerk's Office, that is the latest version of the plan. Unless you have any other questions, I will just leave it at that. Corrie: Any questions of staff? Meridian City Council November 12, 2002 Page 21 of 48 Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I'd just like to clarify that in his revision number one, dated October 29, 2002, is the site plan we are looking at. Hawkins-Clark: Mr. Bird, do you show a revision two as well? Bird: No, we do not, Brad. The one we got today just has Meridian Road access per P&Z request, it’s Revision Number 1, and it's October 29, 2002. Hawkins-Clark: Okay. I believe that there was a second one submitted today. th Bird: This is the November -- this is received November 8. th Hawkins-Clark: Right. There is another one received November 12. Right. Bird: Did we get it? Maybe I grabbed the wrong one. th Corrie: Eight has -- it has a -- November the 12. Hawkins-Clark: Generally the same plan, just they did shift the building a little bit. Corrie: Okay. Sorry about the chatter up here. Okay. Any questions of staff? Do we have a correct site plan? I guess, Brad, did they get that agreement with -- across the street for the parking; do you know? Hawkins-Clark: Our office did not receive anything, Mr. Mayor. Corrie: I guess we can ask Mr. Jones. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Ms. de Weerd. De Weerd: I guess, Brad, with this new plat, they didn't change any of their parking -- add or delete any of that? Hawkins-Clark: That's correct. De Weerd: And so are they -- th Hawkins-Clark: From the November 8 -- if I can clarify that. De Weerd: And so where are they in meeting the parking requirement? Meridian City Council November 12, 2002 Page 22 of 48 Hawkins-Clark: Councilwoman de Weerd, Members of the Council, they have met the off-street parking requirements. That being said, we -- this body has mentioned several times that one parking space for every 200 square feet is probably outdated, compared to other jurisdictions that base it on the number of seats, instead of the number of square feet. See we tend to be low on our restaurant off-street parking number ratio, but that's not been modified, so all we have to go off of is our one per 200. De Weerd: And they are just meeting that or they are well above it? Hawkins-Clark: I believe they are approximately 12 stalls above but, as you know, they testified that there, are on the whole site, a number of employees -- I believe between 35 and 50 employees alone in this -- on this, you know, little over an acre site. That's why the employee parking kind of throws a whole different mix and that's why they required 24 off-street was for -- designated only for employees. Nary: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: I guess maybe I'm still confused, Brad. If they -- as a condition -- as the recommendation from Planning and Zoning is for the 24 off-site parking for their employees, the KFC-A&W, the Taco Bell, the Bolo's, and this restaurant, is there adequate parking, even based on our archaic standard, for all of those same restaurants with the parking that's available now? Because if we are going to compare apples to apples, then I guess that they are going to have to provide off-site parking for all four restaurants, so that there is adequate parking for those four restaurants on that site. Hawkins-Clark: Councilman Nary, again, we are just talking about the parcel on the south. Nary: Well, I understand. Hawkins-Clark: Not Bolo's and Taco Bell. That's a separate legal parcel. Nary: Well, I understand, but what I guess I -- I guess the reason I'm unclear is if the recommendation of the Planning and Zoning Commission is that they have to provide off-site parking for employees of the KFC-A&W, Taco Bell, Bolo's, and this restaurant, Carl's, then are we comparing apples to apples? Is the parking that's then remaining, because those employees for those four restaurants aren't parking on the site, adequate to provide parking for all four of those same restaurants? To me, the only way -- that's the only thing that makes sense to me in a comparison. If we are going to take all the employees across the street, then, is there adequate parking left for all four? Hawkins-Clark: So if I understand, is the balance of the parking stalls, after you take the 24 off, adequate for all four restaurants? Meridian City Council November 12, 2002 Page 23 of 48 Nary: Well, I guess what I'm hearing -- and maybe, again, the applicant can answer that. What I thought I heard you saying, what was discussed at the Planning and Zoning, was that they have 35 to 50 employees for this site for all of these restaurants. What the Planning and Zoning said was let's take 24 spaces and put them across the street, so that 24 of those employees are parking elsewhere. That still means some of the employees may be parking on the site and what I want to know is even if we take that out, even if we don't consider employees parking on the site, is there adequate parking for this restaurant, along with the other restaurants on the site, considering this shared parking arrangement? Because, otherwise, it doesn't make sense to include KFC and Taco Bell and Bolo's in this recommendation, if we are not also going to address how much patrons they have and how much parking they are supposed to have. Hawkins-Clark: Right and, I'm sorry, I don't have the required count for Bolo's and Taco Bell right here. Nary: Okay. Thank you. Corrie: Any questions of staff? Okay. Is the representative of the Taco Bell here tonight? I'm sorry. I've got Taco Bell on my mind. I'm sorry. I'll get it right. Is the testimony you're about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Jones: Yes, it is. Corrie: Name and address, please. Jones: Clayton Jones, 14071 West Rochester Drive in Boise. 83713. Mr. Mayor, and Council Members, I am pleased to come before you, once again, to ask for a Conditional Use Permit for a second Carl's Junior in Meridian. This site, as it is a little tight, is going to be a great, great restaurant location for us. The synergy between the chicken, KFC, burgers, Taco Bell -- I think you have everything you want right there. If we can iron out all the details I think when all is said and done, it's going to be a great location for all. We have -- we have actually approached this project with a couple of goals. Of course, to make best use of the space allotted to us there -- and I think we have, I think we have done a good job of that -- and then, second, to improve the flow on the site and we have made several in-roads by -- we were able to accommodate Planning and Zoning by approaching ACHD and improving that west entrance. Also, between Taco Bell and the Carl's, we were able to open up a two-way drive aisle, instead of a one way that is currently there. We actually have 32 spots on our subject site and 17 with -- on the KFC specific, for a total of 49, so we actually did decrease by one -- one parking space from the Planning and Zoning. We understand, as business people, that we need to provide parking for our guests and the 49 spaces are specifically for the KFC and the Carl's Junior, with an additional amount, which I am unaware of for the Taco Bell and Bolo's, they have their own on other side. Having said that, we at Carl's Junior, tend to have, at the most, about 12 employees on a shift at any Meridian City Council November 12, 2002 Page 24 of 48 one particular time. The other restaurants in our area, it seems like we have, oh, about six to eight cars that belong to employees. You know, a lot of them do ride share, mom drops them off, dad drops them off, et cetera. We will encourage our employees to ride share in order to make the parking work. I would ask that -- you know, that the off-site parking, we understand, is very important and we will do our absolute best to get it. I know that Mr. Gibbs is working on that. I would ask that instead of a hard and fast rule that we have to have that, I would ask that it would be a recommendation to acquire the off-site parking, as we will absolutely do our best to accommodate the guests, because we know that that's the nature of the business and if don't have a place to park, then they will go somewhere else. Anyway, we have been able to accommodate the Planning and Zoning, ACHD, the property owner -- I don't know if anything that we do at this point is going to make KFC 100 percent happy, but we have absolutely tried to accommodate them as well. In conclusion, I would respectfully request your approval for this CUP and take any questions that you might have. Corrie: Any question? Okay. Thank you very much. Anyone else that would like to issue testimony for the Carl's Junior? Okay. On the list I have -- is that for? Oh. Okay. I have two here now that signed up against this. Daniel Skinner is here tonight. Dan, if you'd come up, please. Is the testimony you're about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Skinner: Yes. Corrie: Name and address, please. Skinner: My name is Daniel Skinner. I live at 908 Saffire Court in Nampa, Idaho. 83686. Corrie: You have three minutes. Skinner: Mayor and Council Members, I come before you asking for our opportunity, as Taco Bell, to respond to this proposal with Carl's Junior going in. We were not officially notified and I know that the other two businesses in this area -- I know there are two separate plots there, but we certainly are all neighbors, we were not notified formally either of the proposed Carl's Junior going in. In fact, we found out yesterday that this was happening. What we are asking is if there is a chance that we can have you table this to give us a chance to put a response together, so that we can have the -- or provide you with a better, I guess, response in what we want to do with our business and how it will be affected by Carl's Junior. That's what we are requesting by Taco Bell. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: Mr. Skinner, you're not the property owner of record? Meridian City Council November 12, 2002 Page 25 of 48 Skinner: No. We lease that property. De Weerd: Okay. The property owner must have been the one that was notified and not the lessees. Carl's Junior didn't come over and let you know -- didn't talk -- didn't work with you? Skinner: No, they did not. De Weerd: Okay. Skinner: We found out yesterday. Actually, we found out from KFC that this was going on. There were rumors that we heard, but nothing official. We didn't -- again, we didn't even know -- we still don't know it's official, just because we haven't received notification from them, but we heard about it and that's why I'm here today to represent Taco Bell. We do oppose Carl's Junior going in, because we do understand that there is going to be a significant impact with traffic, just what we deal with today with Bolo's and KFC and ourselves, there is a significant traffic congestion issue there during our peek periods, our lunch and our dinner, that it really does impact that area. We are asking just our chance to be able to put some things together for you, so that we can respond more intelligently to you over this matter. Nary: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: Is the property posted? Did you notice if there was any signage on the property indicating there was a hearing about this? Skinner: No, sir. Nary: Even after the Planning and Zoning you didn't notice that there was sign there? Skinner: There was no sign that we saw. Nary: Thank you. Corrie: Any other questions? Okay. De Weerd: Thank you. Corrie: Okay. Skinner: Could I responses to one other issue? Corrie: Sure. Meridian City Council November 12, 2002 Page 26 of 48 Skinner: Also, this off-site parking for employees, we also are strongly opposed to that. Our own security policies and procedures that we have for our employees, especially at night, are strictly against any kind of off-site parking that is mentioned here. We do ask that our employees park actually up near the building at night. It is a proven fact that there is a security risk with this kind of parking off site to our employees and we would also like to note that in our response, too. Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: Mr. Skinner, what is the -- how many parking spots do you -- does Taco Bell have? Skinner: I'm sorry I can't respond to that, I don't have that number right now. Bird: How many employees would you have -- how many employees make up a shift for you? Skinner: We have -- at any given time we have between 10 and 15 employees. Bird: Thank you. Corrie: Thank you. Phil Atteberry. Is the testimony you're about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Atteberry: Yes, it is. Corrie: Name and address, please. Atteberry: Phil Atteberry. 1756 Stonybrook Court, Eagle. Corrie: Okay now anything you submit to the Council can be kept by the Council. Atteberry: Okay. Corrie: Just giving you something that you didn't know about. Atteberry: Okay. Corrie: You have three minutes. Atteberry: Thank you. We have several points we'd like to present to the Council tonight. We do oppose the Carl's Junior going there next to us, because of the traffic, the parking. At any given Friday night right now there is not a parking spot available with Taco Bell, Bolo's. Bolo's is a sit-down restaurant and a lot of times they have live Meridian City Council November 12, 2002 Page 27 of 48 music. They really impact Taco Bell, because a lot of times Bolo's parking -- their patrons take up all of Taco Bell's parking and they are parking in front of the old KFC that's there and so that's one of the big points there. We also did not receive any formal notice of this meeting tonight. I did go to Planning and Zoning Meeting, so I knew a meeting was coming up. I did notify Taco Bell yesterday and I assumed that they had formal -- some kind of notice that this meeting was going on. They didn't have any notice and the same thing with Bolo's. I did talk to the owner of Bolo's. He is very opposed to the Carl's Junior going there. He heard that something was going to happen with the KFC, but he heard from the -- well, assumed that it could be parking, because there was such a parking situation going on there. I have a couple things here to show. The first thing I'd like to show you is the -- this is the drive-thru. This is showing -- and what I showed -- I put in cars here and this shows the speaker box in this location right here and if you had one, two, three, four cars here, this whole driveway is blocked. Right here. If that driveway is blocked, one of these entrances to our drive-thru, which is here, is completely blocked also. It creates a -- well, if we had patrons coming in here waiting to go to us, this could just back up more. This really does make this parking inaccessible. It's not uncommon for a drive-thru to have parking back up. You know, four to five to six cars deep. Also, if you notice here, the exit for the drive-thru, I think, would be a consideration for Carl's Junior. It exits right into this driveline right here and that could be a problem, too. This new entrance right here -- you know, this here, this is a great idea. I mean this is -- for us right now this is a mess. It's not wide enough. If a large vehicle pulls out onto this road here, it actually blocks of us off the way it is today. This is just not very wide. As far as these cars backing up right here, I took some photographs of Carl's Junior at two different locations. This is on Milwaukee here and this was at lunchtime on Monday. I would say that Monday is probably not their busiest day at lunchtime. If you can see here, there are one, two, three cars, and then this the same photograph here and there is four, five, six cars so the chances of that backing up and completely blocking that off is -- there is a pretty good chance of that happening. The same thing this is more photographs of the same. As far as parking, at this one time at lunchtime on Monday, there were 38 cars in this parking lot for Carl's Junior. This is the other one. This is for Eagle Road and at one time on Saturday they had eight cars backed up in the drive-thru. This would really impede our ability to do business at Kentucky Fried Chicken. We are sort of locked in there and another big fast food restaurant going on that location would really -- it's already bad parking and trying to get around in there right now is very difficult. Corrie: Okay. Thank you. Nary: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: Mr. Atteberry, do you know if there is a Shared Parking Arrangement currently with -- some type of agreement between KFC and Taco Bell or Bolo's or any of those? Meridian City Council November 12, 2002 Page 28 of 48 Atteberry: I don't know if there is a Shared Parking Agreement. About the off-site -- I'd like to add also, the off-site parking, I have a daughter that works at the KFC there that's 16 and there is -- being a dad, there is not a chance that I would want her parking across the street and leaving there at night after it's dark. Nary: What's interesting -- you said you were at the Planning and Zoning Commission? Atteberry: What's that? Nary: You were at the Planning and Zoning hearing? Atteberry: I was. Nary: Okay, now, it appears that Mr. Gibbs from KFC was the one that actually brought up the off-site parking. Atteberry: He is. Nary: Okay. Now, was that off-site parking for the KFC restaurant? Atteberry: No. Mr. Gibbs brought that up as an idea for all the restaurants to have off- site parking for employees. Nary: But do you know if that arrangement has been done at all? Atteberry: I don't know. Mr. Gibbs is here tonight. Nary: I saw that. I just didn't know if -- Atteberry: No. I don't know that. Nary: Okay. Atteberry: If they have, it hasn't been brought to my -- and, also, Carl's Junior has made no attempt whatsoever to come over to KFC or contact me to go over his site plan on what might be workable on the site plan. Nary: Let me ask you one more question, Mr. Atteberry. Do you know if the property was posted? Atteberry: I did not see any postings whatsoever. Nary: All right. Thank you. Bird: Mr. Mayor? Meridian City Council November 12, 2002 Page 29 of 48 Corrie: Mr. Bird. Go ahead. I have a couple questions. Bird: No. Go ahead and ask your questions. Corrie: That's all right. I was just going to ask you who owns the land on Carl's Junior where they want to go? Do you know? Atteberry: Mr. Gibbs. Corrie: Mr. Gibbs -- he owns yours as well? Atteberry: Yes and Taco Bell and Bolo's that whole -- one property owner. Corrie: Okay. Well, that answers my question. What was -- Bird: That's -- you just asked my question, too. Corrie: All right. Thank you. Is there anyone else that would like to issue testimony? I believe, Mr. Gibbs, you had your hand up, so step right up here and tell us what you have to say. Is the testimony you're about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Gibbs: It is. Corrie: Name and address, please. Gibbs: Mr. Mayor and Members of the City Council, my name is Jonathan Gibbs, 9502 Scorpio in Boise, Idaho. I'm the administrative partner of G&H Enterprises and G&H Enterprises II. There are actually two partnerships there on the two parcels. On the matter of posting, I know that the postings were put up there both for the Planning and Zoning and for this and they are probably still out there. The last time -- I have been out there working on the property. In fact, with Brad Bolicek of Bolo's, we put in some new sod here a few weeks ago and Brad is well aware of the proposal for Carl's Junior going in there. If he told somebody different than that, I know he's aware of it, because I spent about three hours doing sod and I explained what was going on there. Each -- there are two -- two actual parcels, the Taco Bell and the Bolo's, they have their own parking requirements when they went in and they met those parking requirements. The parking requirements for this parcel, based on the Meridian Code, are 37. We have 49. As far as the code goes, we meet it. We have a very high volume KFC. They are doing a lot of business, they are requiring a lot of parking, and sometimes their drive-thru is backing up to 16 cars. There is not adequate for backing up of 16 cars and it wasn't designed for that, but they can adequately have about 10 or 12 cars in their line and still be within their own circle and their own parking area. Carl's Junior has indicated to me that they normally only have five or six cars in a drive-thru and I believe they can have eight or nine in their drive-thru and that's from the drive window clear back to where the parking is. Those would be very adequate for medium volume stores. However, we do Meridian City Council November 12, 2002 Page 30 of 48 have a good location and the volume is running very strong in those. That's why I suggested some off-premise parking for employees. I talked to Brad about that. I had mentioned that also to Dennis of KFC. I didn't tell him it was required or anything, I just suggested and they both indicated to me that they thought it was a good idea. I did not talk to Taco Bell about that, but I did mention to Carl at Taco Bell that Carl's Junior would be going in, possibly, if they got approval and so if you got any other questions, I would be happy to address them. Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: Mr. Gibbs, you said there are 49 parking spaces for Carl's Junior? Gibbs: For Carl's Junior and KFC. Bird: And KFC. Okay. That's what I was -- so in the Lease Agreement with these people, they are sharing the parking? Gibbs: That's right. Bird: They are sharing it. In the Lease Agreement with Taco Bell and Bolo's, do they also share the parking -- Gibbs: Yes. Bird: -- of all your space? Gibbs: We have made all space between the two parcels available. Yes. We, I don't think, have a specific clause in there that says between the two parcels, but it's shared. Bird: Because I really question whether Bolo's or Taco Bell have the number. I'm trying to think of how many parking spaces Bolo's has for square footage. Gibbs: They are both smaller buildings, both of those. They only have about 50 -- probably about 5,500 square feet between the buildings, which -- Bird: Which would mean about 27 parking spots? Gibbs: About 28 spots or something like that. They have that easily. Bird: Right in their own little area? Gibbs: Yes. Yes. Nary: Mr. Mayor? Meridian City Council November 12, 2002 Page 31 of 48 Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: Mr. Gibbs, is there a Shared Parking Agreement -- a written Shared Parking Agreement between KFC and Bolo's and Taco Bell and Carl's Junior? Is there anybody that has a written Shared Parking Agreement? Gibbs: No, there is not. Nary: Okay and now I guess there is a discrepancy, but that's all I'm asking. There seems to be a discrepancy from what you're saying and what these other tenants are saying about their desire to have their employees parking off site and whether or not they have adequate notice. Who did you specifically talk to and are those people here tonight? Gibbs: I talked to Dennis and he's not here with KFC. Nary: Dennis who? Gibbs: Wagstaff. He's the president of D&D Idaho, Inc., and he lives in California. Nary: Okay so did you talk to anybody who works at that store there? Gibbs: I did mention the off-street parking, I thought, to Phil Atteberry. I never -- I just said we might have to get some off-street parking, but if they are against off-street parking, I guess we are not going to get any off-street parking. I understand their concerns. There is a heavy traffic road there to go across the street. You got to be careful and at night it could be darker in those areas, regardless, even if we lighted the lot, you'd still have to walk over there, but -- you know. Nary: Mr. Gibbs, there is no crosswalk on Meridian Road in that location, is there? Gibbs: No. Nary: Okay. Now I also -- Gibbs: But I imagine the City of Meridian could provide those if we needed them. Nary: I also heard Carl's Junior say they really don't want off-site parking either. Gibbs: It sounds like nobody does now tonight. Nary: So there is no shared parking written agreement between these businesses, you're just borrowing the different spaces to meet these requirements, but everybody could have the same number of patrons and be open at the same time and fill up every space in that lot and not have adequate room to get around isn't that right? Meridian City Council November 12, 2002 Page 32 of 48 Gibbs: Oh, they could -- yes, they could fill those up, -- KFC has done it several times there. When we had the old store there, of course, they were constantly with the drive- st thru out in the street, with five cars backed up they were out in to -- which was 1 Street then and now they have got 10 or 12 in their line just to get to their own spot. You know, at times they can have 20, maybe. I don't know where the number stops and starts that you, you know, require for. We meet the City Code very easily. We probably don't meet high volume. If they are all doing high volume at the same time, we would probably not be able to service them all. I think that happens in any restaurant at any given time. Nary: Do you recall the discussion at the Planning and Zoning Commission when the drive-thru was transferred from the former KFC building to the new one and why it was done? Do you recall that? Gibbs: I don't know if they made any decision on that at all. We knew the drive-thru on the old one was inadequate and Carl's Junior has approached me to put a restaurant in there like four or five years ago. I told them then I didn't know what KFC was going to do. I had to see. At that time I thought they were going to remodel that and Carl's Junior wanted to go on the other end, but I said it's up to them, they are my tenant, I have to take care of them first. They choose to go down in the other end and they wanted a much more -- many more cars in the drive-thru, which they have got. They extend clear back at times to the entrance on Meridian Street with 16 to 20 cars. Nary: Let me ask you, Mr. Gibbs, since I guess I'm not clear, even from Mr. Bird's question. On that lot, you said there are 49 parking spaces just on that lot there? Gibbs: That's correct. Nary: There are 49 spaces there? If I count those, does that equal 49? You're not counting any spaces on the other side of the street -- or other side of the drive-thru lane? Gibbs: I am not. No. Nary: Okay. Explain to me, then, why was your proposal to take 24 spaces across the street and take all of the employees from Bolo's, Taco Bell, KFC and Carl's Junior to another location? Gibbs: I wasn't -- I never did propose to take all of their employees. I have got high volume restaurants and I offered that as an option, so there would be more parking for their customers. I did not say I was requiring them to use it or anything like that. As a property owner, I want to see these businesses successful and I thought that would help to do that and tonight's the first time I have heard all the opposition against it, so -- Nary: Okay. But that's what the Planning and Zoning Commission directed was 24 parking spaces. Meridian City Council November 12, 2002 Page 33 of 48 Gibbs: Yes, because I suggested six for each store and they picked up on it and said we are going to require that and I said, okay, I'll do it, then. Nary: Okay so do you agree with their findings or their recommendation or do you not? Gibbs: If these restaurants don't want them, I would have to say it would be foolish to provide them, if they wouldn't let their employees use them or request them not to. The only -- the only value is if they are to be used. Nary: So you haven't acquired that yet? Gibbs: No. I have talked to three different landowners in that area about it and I have a proposal from one of them and -- but I have not -- I wanted to see what happened here at the city before I acquired any property for them. Nary: Thank you. Corrie: Any other questions? Okay. Thank you. Is there anyone else that would like to tissue testimony at this time? Okay. Clayton, you have got -- have you got any questions that came up here? Do you have anything that you would like to answer on this? Jones: Yes. Just regarding the generous offer of Mr. Gibbs for the off-site parking. Should he be able to provide me some, of course, I would use it, especially during the day, as we are more of a lunchtime generating business, where that's our busiest time. We would probably make use of that more during the daytime, but my -- in my statement to the Council was should he not be able to come through with all of the parking, you know, I would hate to have that kill the project. Of course, if he had some I would use it. Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: Mr. Gibbs -- or not Gibbs. Corrie: This is Mr. Jones. Bird: Jones. I'm sorry. You're aware of your parking -- your 30 some parking spaces or something, is it joint parking, it's not just yours? Jones: Absolutely and I was made aware of that from Mr. Gibbs. He indicated that that -- the whole parcel was joint so we always counted the 49 for both restaurants. Meridian City Council November 12, 2002 Page 34 of 48 Corrie: Any questions? Thank you. I have a question of staff. Brad, is that coming in off of Meridian Road, only one entrance there for both those places, now what about st Meridian -- or East 1 or Main Street, I guess it is. Is that an entrance there as well? Hawkins-Clark: Mr. Mayor, that's correct. It's here on the northerly and right on the boundary between the two parcels. Corrie: So they could go into the Taco Bell or they can go into Carl's Junior or they can go into Kentucky Fried Chicken? Hawkins-Clark: This drive aisle here more or less connects the two entrance points and it runs just about adjacent to the property line. Corrie: Okay. Thank you. Council, any other questions during the Public Hearing? Okay. If there are no questions of the applicant or the people, then I will entertain a motion to close the Public Hearing. De Weerd: So moved. Bird: Second. Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded to close the Public Hearing on the CUP request for Carl's Junior. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT Corrie: Discussion? Nary: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: I have a couple of concerns and I guess a motion to follow after that. I'm concerned that the recommendations from the Planning and Zoning Commission that apply to Carl's Junior, requires they get parking for other businesses that have nothing to do with them. I am concerned that we have had at least some testimony that we have had inadequate notice to those lessees of that property. From what I heard from Mr. Gibbs, the only person he talked to in relation to KFC was the owner in California. I don't think that's being good neighborly in getting some good input here. This is a very congested lot. The only thing I have heard in the last year regarding this, besides the bucket, is what a good thing we did taking that drive-thru away and we did take that drive-thru away because of a concern of Planning and Zoning that that is inadequate to have a drive-thru in that location with a drive-thru with KFC. That was why the intent was to transfer it, not to grant a second one, but that anybody that wanted to do anything would have to come to Planning and Zoning Commission and the Council to see if it was feasible. To me they haven't presented a plan that was feasible for a Meridian City Council November 12, 2002 Page 35 of 48 variety of reasons. I don't think there has been adequate time for those other owners, Taco Bell and KFC, to adequately address these concerns. I don't think that there has been adequate discussion. I think borrowing all this parking is a very sloppy way the city and for these business to try to maintain some order in these lots. They should have a Shared Parking Agreement and it should be crystal clear to these folks how much parking that they have to have and sharing it. I do think that lot currently is over- used and I think putting this facility there, although Carl's Junior is a wonderful business and it would be nice to have a second one here in Meridian, this is a very bad location to try to put a drive-thru -- another fast food restaurant in a very small spot. I don't think there is adequate safety restrictions in that lot to keep cars from driving through or for passengers or for people that are walking, where other vehicles are trying to get across that to KFC and into the Carl's Junior drive-thru. I think the design is pretty poor, but my Number 1 thing is I don't think Planning and Zoning adequately addressed the issues here and the issues here specifically are whether or not these neighbors have adequate notice to know whether or not it's going to impact them and how we can address that. Secondarily, imposing a condition that requires Mr. Jones and Carl's Junior to go get parking when Mr. Gibbs owns the property and for Carl's Junior to get property for the other business's employees, that makes no sense to me. There may be some value to this off-site parking. I don't think there is. I think that's an attempt to just squeeze more cars into this lot that can't fit now, including 16-year-olds across the street in the dark at night in a street that has no crosswalk to go to after work is fraught with peril and danger to these employees. It makes no sense to try to squeeze this in with this design in this manner. I think it needs to go back to Planning and Zoning Commission, because I think these folks have the right to be able to put on their best case as to why this works or doesn't work for them. Why it impacts them in a good or bad way and for Planning and Zoning to redress it and not impose on Mr. Jones' business to go find parking for other people's businesses. If they have a Shared Agreement, then they need to work through that. If they don't have one, then they need to work through that but I think the design here needs to be revaluated and I think that condition makes it very difficult for us to address this particular concern. Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I'd like to echo Mr. Nary. I agree with him 100 percent. I hate to think that a condition for anything is based on off-site parking. Also, we would be allowing three drive-thrus to come off of one entry off of Meridian Road. If I recall, Taco Bell, just as soon as you come in, you're into the drive-thru there. You turn to your right there, you get into the drive-thru at Kentucky Fried, and if Carl's Junior is to go in, you -- the same place that Kentucky Fried can go -- the communication with the other tenants in those buildings -- I mean I can't believe it. They know nothing about it? This shared parking -- I know this is a Planned Development and there are some stipulations in that, but I, for one, would not -- would not even want to entertain off-street parking, especially across Main Street or Meridian Road at night. That's my view. Meridian City Council November 12, 2002 Page 36 of 48 De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: Most of it has all been said. Conditional Use Permits are asked for in these kinds of situations, because oftentimes we find that our requirements, our minimum requirements, are not sufficient to meet the demand. This is one area that with the three existing businesses right now, the parking there does not meet the demand, and I believe that when KFC came through, we pretty much -- I think we sent a strong message that whatever is done with the existing building or replace the existing building, should not have a drive-thru and here we have a drive-thru. The illustration that Mr. Atteberry provided us really emphasized the impact that drive-thru would have on an existing business and that's one thing that we need to look out for what is there and the impact, if it has enough to allow for what's being proposed, and everything that's been showed has not. I, too, am concerned about the communication, the lack thereof, and -- although I think, I differ -- I don't think the size of that building or the building -- or the business that's proposed, that there is room on that site for this business. To send it back to Planning and Zoning seems frugal, although I really wanted to use fraught with peril, but can't figure out how to work it into my speech here. I just cannot see how we can make it work. I would not be in favor of asking a property owner to go off site to meet demands for an on-site project. I am not in favor, as this -- I'm not opposed to a second Carl's Junior in Meridian, but certainly not at this location. It's too much. Corrie: I heard Mr. Nary say he would follow up with a motion. Do you wish to do that? Nary: Yes. Mr. Mayor, I would move to remand CUP 02-026, the request for a Conditional Use Permit for a 3,901 square foot Carl's Junior Restaurant with a drive-thru in a C-G zone back to the Planning and Zoning Commission for further review, based upon the testimony that was provided tonight that there was inadequate notice to the other adjacent property owners as to the design and impact of this business on theirs and, secondarily, that one of their recommendations requires this business to provide parking for other businesses in the area, which I don't think is consistent with our code. So that's my reason for a remand. Corrie: You heard the motion. Is there a second? Okay. Motion dies for lack of second. Is there another motion? Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I would move that we deny CUP 02-026, request for a Conditional Use Permit for a 3,901 square foot Carl's Junior Restaurant with a drive-thru in a C-G zone by Clayton Jones on South Main Street north of Meridian Road and Main Street intersection, with the reasons that have been stated prior by the City Council Members. For the attorney Meridian City Council November 12, 2002 Page 37 of 48 to draw up Findings of Facts and Conclusions and Decision of Order showing the denial. De Weerd: Second. Corrie: Okay. Motion for denial of the CUP has been made and seconded. Any further discussion? De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: Does the attorney need clarification on the reasons for denial? Nichols: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, what I would suggest that we do is that instead of having the findings on the Consent Agenda, that you have them on the Regular Agenda, so that you can review and discuss them. I will -- from the motion, in terms of the Council Members discussion, that would include the requirement from the new KFC, approval, which essentially says there would be no drive-thru on this building. There was testimony with regard to what happens if you have too many cars stacked up in the proposed Carl's Junior drive-thru. We need to make sure that the clerk has Mr. Atteberry's exhibits in the record, that he doesn't pack those out of the room, and if you have it on the Regular Agenda, you can double-check my Findings and Conclusions, but I believe that there is enough discussion to put it together. Bird: I agree. Corrie: Any further discussion? Nary: The only thing, Mr. Mayor -- and I am going to support the motion and just so the Council is aware, part of the reason why I asked to send it back to the Planning and Zoning Commission is so we would have better Findings, without Mr. Nichols having to come up with all of them. I think there is -- I think Mr. Nichols is correct, that there was probably adequate information on the record that we can go forward with that. Corrie: Okay. Hearing that, roll call vote, Mr. Berg. Roll call vote: McCandless, absent; Nary, aye; DeWeerd, aye; Bird, aye. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT Item 14. Public Hearing: PP 02-023 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 2 Education building lots and 1 other lot on 39.23 acres in an R-4 zone for Campus Subdivision by Joint School District No. 2 – 3800 North Locust Grove Road: Meridian City Council November 12, 2002 Page 38 of 48 Item 15. Public Hearing: CUP 02-035 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for an educational campus consisting of an elementary school, charter/professional technical high school buildings, and school Education Campus Subdivision administration center in an R-4 zone for by Joint School District No. 2 – 3800 North Locust Grove Road: Corrie: Then that will be placed on the Regular Agenda, rather than the Consent Agenda, for discussion. Okay. The Item Number 14 is a request for Public Hearing for Preliminary Plat approval of two building lots and one other lot for 39.23 acres in an R-4 zone for Education Campus Subdivision by Joint School District No. 2, 3800 North Locust Grove. Then also Item Number 15 is a Public Hearing, request for a Conditional Use Permit for an Educational Campus, consisting of an elementary, charter/professional technical high school buildings, and a school administration center in an R-4 zone for the Education Campus Subdivision by School District No. 2. At this time I would -- with Council's approval, I will open the Public Hearing on both of these Public Hearings and any testimony will be taken at the same time for both of the preliminary plat and the Conditional Use Permit. At this time, I will ask staff to start the Public Hearing. Hawkins-Clark: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council. On Item Number 14, the Preliminary Plat, we are dealing with the existing property owned by Joint School District No. 2. It is within the city limits. It has been annexed with an R-4 zone. As you may recall, I believe it was '98, the Hollister property, which is located here to the south of the school property, needed to annex in order for this 39 acre piece for the school district to become contiguous. The Hollister property was annexed back at that same time. The plat does propose just two lots. The property that I was just referring to, the Hollister property, was a flag lot that has this long private drive that extends out to North Locust Grove. That is proposed as part of this plat to be abandoned or vacated as a private drive. There is already a record of survey that's been done that essentially swaps some land between the Hollister and the school, so this road has become part of Lot 2 of the school project. In terms of access off of Locust Grove, of course, you have the existing Charter High School that is here in the southwest corner. They are proposing a new public street, East Herons Crossing Drive, along the north boundary. That does line up with the Heritage Commons Subdivision that is located here. As you may recall, this is a six lot commercial concept that Brighton Corporation had approved awhile back. That East Herons Crossing Drive alignment would come up and then would curve down and then the public street would extend their sub here to their -- to their east boundary. Access to the Hollister property would be taken off of that new public street. There is a turn around, in the meantime that is shown on the Hollister property here. As far as the plat, just the two lots with the new public street and that brings us to the Item 15, which is the Conditional Use Permit. That's required, because of the multiple buildings on single lots that are proposed. They are proposing, with the conditional use, a future administrative building for the district here just immediately north of the Charter High School that's existing. They are asking for conceptual approval of two more Charter High Schools on the site as well to the east. What's more or less driving this application right now is the elementary school, which is back here on Meridian City Council November 12, 2002 Page 39 of 48 the northeastern portion of the project. As you know, the school district is moving pretty aggressively, they want to get this elementary school underway right away and have it open for enrollment for next fall. They do have a proposed Landscape Plan that was a concept that was submitted here as part of their project. In terms of the Planning and Zoning Commission, the recommendation on the -- one of the recommendations on the plat is on Page 2 of the recommendation, Item Number 7, states that all fencing surrounding the project shall be chain link with plastic slats. I believe -- in my read of the minutes from the Planning and Zoning Commission, it wasn't necessarily the entire perimeter of the subdivision be chain link, most of the discussion had to deal with the elementary school site here along the north boundary. There is an existing county subdivision, a one-acre lot sub, that abuts the northern boundary here and so there was quite a bit of discussion there. Of course, many times the school district has the chain link abutting their elementary schools. I would just throw that out that it could be that Number 7, the chain link plastic slats, maybe get some input from the applicant on the exact location of where they propose that. It could be clear it could come from the north boundary of the stub street and run up along the east and along the entire north boundary. They also were asked on Item Number 8 to enter into negotiations with the neighbors to the north about a proposed walkway access between this property. That was left a little bit unclear as well, so that would -- recommend that that would -- give that some discussion in terms of how that pathway would work out. I guess you have the recommendations. The other item in the package that you may have seen is the Meridian Fire Department is looking to have a location on the property as well and I guess I will let Joe Silva kind of summarize what that's all about. Silva: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, just a second here, we will have this -- it's a short -- what we have done is we have approached the Meridian School District for permission to enter into a partnership to provide a site for a co-location of a public safety education facility. What it would do is it would provide, in essence, our training opportunity to bring school children in and teach them evacuation skills and provide for cooking safety classes, baby-sitting classes, burn prevention and things along those lines. It's similar in concept to what Boise City currently does and the concept that we are proposing is exactly what Nampa is currently using for their public safety education program. What we would do is we would utilize the existing manufactured home that's on the fire station site, Fire Station Three, and what we would do -- this is just a slight change in what you saw the previous slide that Brad had, but this would be the location that would be proposed as part of this Conditional Use Permit. Kind of blow up of that particular location there, is this site right here. This is the manufactured home currently at the Fire Station Three location and we would relocate it to this -- to this location as part of the educational campus. We will provide some off-street parking, staging area for buses, and one spot for fire apparatus to park as part of the instruction, provide instructors for the presentation in the fire safety house. To give you some idea what this looks like, Nampa's version of it. Sorry about this. This is what Nampa's currently looks like and what they did is they took a small manufactured home and modified it for presenting the fire safety education classes. This is what the inside of the classroom looks like and then what they have is open to the classroom is a cooking area that they can go over cooking safety procedures. Basically, we can introduce smoke into this Meridian City Council November 12, 2002 Page 40 of 48 facility and we have an operations room in the back where we can simulate 911 calls and the operator asks them appropriate questions, so that school age children can learn how to access 911 should the need arise. Essentially, that's kind of the concept of what we would be proposing at this location. With that, I will stand for any questions. Corrie: Okay. Council, any questions for staff? De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I guess just technically have you started a temporary budget, you know, the budgeting what the lease would look like, who would do what, and have you gotten that far in your discussion? Silva: The lease -- we have requested the city legal to provide us with a copy of the lease that was exercised between the Boys and Girls Club and the City of Meridian as a template for initiating discussions on how we can work out a long-term dollar a year type lease with the school district. In terms of the budget, the Meridian Rural Fire District has offered to proceed with this project. They do have -- obviously, gone through the budgetary process and locked in for the next year in terms of what they can spend. Our goal is an attempt to move the manufactured home onto the site and to provide a finish look to the exterior, not going into doing any of the interior work until we get into our next budget year. Preliminary cost that the Rural Fire Commissioner Terry Leighton had indicated what -- a total project cost of approximately 50,000 dollars to bring up this facility to completion. We feel that we can work out a partnership with some of the building BCA Members, as well as some of the professional service folks that have worked with us in the past. For example CGA has done some preliminary pro bono work on the site preparation for the site work and, similarly, they feel that they can approach some folks that they do electrical engineering with and mechanical engineering with. Our in-house Public Works Department has offered to assist us with the site details pertaining to the parking lot and drainage issue. We feel that even though we have got some preliminary budget figures, until we are able to fully explore the partnerships that can be established with the private sector, it will be hard to start firming up those costs read hard. We just got a preliminary cost estimate breakdown from CGA this morning in a fax, so it will take a little while to take those figures back to a private sector to determine what partnerships can be established. Nary: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: Mr. Nichols, on this particular recommendation, are you comfortable with basically the language here? Obviously, we have got to modify some of the recommendations, but that the language be that essentially the school district has to rent this property to us and the rural fire district for free as a condition of approval, rather Meridian City Council November 12, 2002 Page 41 of 48 than that they set aside some public education spot and if it doesn't work out to rent to -- to have it available for some other use? It seems it would sound like less of a taking. Nichols: Councilman Nary, Mayor, Members of the Council, I think the wording probably reflects an anticipated agreement and certainly there is an educational interest on the part of the school district to keep their kids safe and I know that the fire safe house in Nampa is welcomed by the school districts there. You're correct, it would be better to -- I think the key is whether or not there is a spot on the site plan for this and then subject to whatever agreements can be worked out. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: But it can be written a little bit differently and maybe build in some flexibility so that the Fire Department and the school district can work further on developing the partnership, while allowing their project to go forward without tying -- without anchoring it with whatever conditions we place. I don't know how to put that, but allow some flexibility for the department and the school district to work with them. Okay. Corrie: Any other questions? Bird: I have none. Corrie: Okay. Is the representative of the school district here this evening? Is the testimony you're about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Bigham: Yes, it is. Corrie: Name and address, please. Bigham: Wendell Bigham, 3526 South Ashbury Way, Boise, Idaho. 83706. I'm here tonight representing Joint School District No. 2. I will only take a moment here to address two issues and then I'd like to turn it over to our architect and engineer to answer technical questions staff may have. Two points of clarification. First, the school district's offer to the neighborhood to the north for the walkway path should not be, by any stretch, a requirement of this application. We simply expressed our concern and our desire to the neighborhood that if a spot could be located and one of the property owners was willing to step up and work with the school district to acquire land to get access into the subdivision to the north, we would be desirous of cooperating with those people. Two lots owners in question indicated that that's probably a very slim chance. It's something we would be desirous of, but we are by no way wanting -- requesting that that be required of one of the adjacent landowners. The second issue is on the fire safe program here. Again, I'm somewhat reluctant to have any particulars associated with this project as a requirement. Please understand that our board of trustees has given a Meridian City Council November 12, 2002 Page 42 of 48 conceptual thumbs up to continue investigating this. Conceptually it looks very appealing to us, but the final analysis will be based upon the agreement. We are consistent in that any lease that we would enter in with the various agency or agencies would be in the dollar a year for 99 years with a list of stipulations to be agreeable between the City Council and our council. Again, this is -- I think we need to view this as a bit of an open-ended thing, knowing that it's palatable and acceptable to all parties and then at some point we hope to come back with a very good cooperative agreement. With that, I would stand for questions on those two items. Corrie: Okay. Thank you. Did you want to have him give anything that they want as part of your presentation? Is the testimony you're about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Thowless: Yes. Corrie: Name and address. Thowless: Wayne Thowless, Leatham Krohn VanAuker Architects. Home address 4914 Bond Street, Boise. 83706. Mayor, Members of the Council, I'd just like to touch on a few points. Staff did a very good job of summarizing the project. As staff mentioned, the elementary school proposed for one of the two lots in this subdivision in the northeast corner is -- has been bid, actually, already. Most of the aspects of work have been bid and construction should be commencing upon issuance of building permits within the next several weeks. The second Charter High School building is also scheduled to be on a very similar construction schedule as the elementary and is slated to also open next August, simultaneous with the elementary school. The second Charter High School has, as with the first Charter High School that's already in operation, will be an independent entity separate from the school district. They will lease the facility from the school district, as the existing Charter High School does. The existing Charter High School has a computer and communications technology focus. It's the intention that the next Charter High School will have a health occupations focus and should additional charter or professional/technical high school facilities be built on the property in phase five there, they will also be tailored to particular educational and professional discipline. Mention was made of fencing, which was discussed at the Planning and Zoning hearing. At present, the Summerfield Subdivision on the south boundary of the school's property is fenced already with primarily cedar fencing owned by those residential property owners and it's not the intention of the school district at this time to add secondary fencing along that property line. There will be new fencing developed at a later date, as Phase 5 develops, along the common boundary running north-south between the school's property and the Hollister property. The fencing that was discussed in the P&Z hearing was primarily the fencing on the north boundary. Fencing on the south property, the residential properties in that subdivision, is somewhat intermittent and because of that and because the open ditch will be relocated and tiled and run along that north boundary north of the elementary school, cross the new east extension of East Herons Crossing, and then run along the south side of East Herons Crossing north of the new Charter High School, because all that ditch is going to Meridian City Council November 12, 2002 Page 43 of 48 be relocated and we are building a new road, the new fencing will be provided basically the entire north boundary of the property and that will be chain link with privacy slats as discussed in that hearing. There is an existing six foot chain link fencing along the extreme eastern boundary of the elementary school site and it would be the school district's intention to leave that as is, at least until such time as that property to the east develops and then, if necessary, add privacy slats at that time, but at the present time there is nothing to screen, because that is open land. The request before you tonight relative to Conditional Use is Conditional Use approval for the elementary school development, the public road, related right-of-way improvements and landscaping and development of the second Charter High School building with related site improvements and conceptual blessing only to Phase 4, which would be a new school district administrative center. Phase 5, which would be future charter or professional/technical high school buildings. Lastly, I'd like to mention that relative to the elementary school, that building will be almost identical to the recently completed Ponderosa Elementary on Ustick. It's approximately a 60,000 square foot facility for approximately 600 students. The Charter High School building will be approximately 22,000 square feet and will accommodate 200 maximum high school students, as does the existing Meridian Charter High School. I would be happy to entertain any questions. Corrie: Council? Thank you. It is there anyone else here that would like to issue testimony in this -- here on the preliminary plat or the Conditional Use Permit? Okay. Council, any other questions you have on the Public Hearing? Bird: I have none. Corrie: Okay. Hearing none, I will entertain a motion to close the Public Hearing on Items 14 and 15. Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I move that we close the Public Hearings on PP 02-023 and CUP 02-035. Corrie: Do I hear a second? Nary: Second. Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded to close the Public Hearing on the request for Preliminary Plat and request for Conditional Use Permit. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor say aye. Opposed no? All ayes. Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT Meridian City Council November 12, 2002 Page 44 of 48 Corrie: Discussion? I assume that all questions are answered, so I will entertain a motion on -- first, on the Public Hearing for the Preliminary Plat request. Nary: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: I would move the approval of PP 02-023, the request for Preliminary Plat approval of two building lots and one other lot on 39.23 acres in an R-4 zone for the Education Campus Subdivision by Joint School District No. 2, with the amended plat -- maybe I'm wrong. My understanding was the amended plat is this one that's before us and I don't have a date on it, but it includes that additional cut out for potentially future use for educational purposes. I don't think it's the one that's on our computer, so I don't know what the date is. That's just identified as Landscape Plan, but I'm assuming that's the proposed plat. Hawkins-Clark: That's correct. The plat, I believe, is September 11, 2002. st Nary: I can read an October 1 date below the word campus. Is that something else? Hawkins-Clark: What you're seeing here is just the Landscape Plan associated with the plat, but not the plat itself. Nary: So the plat you're talking about, though, looks like this configuration with that extra cut out on that road in there? Hawkins-Clark: Right. The cut out is not a separate lot. Nary: Right. Correct but it's just this was different than the one that was shown earlier. Hawkins-Clark: Yes. th Nary: So this is the plat that we are approving. It's dated September 11 correct? Hawkins-Clark: Yes. Nary: Okay. I don't believe there were any necessary changes to the Preliminary Plat. Oh, I take that back, because I think I'm looking at the Preliminary Plat approval recommendations and we would include the following amendments. It appears that on number one, there is no pedestrian pathway at this juncture. Correct? Is that the micropath or is that a different path? Hawkins-Clark: That's different. Nary: Okay. On Number 7, though, this one we would have to amend it to reflect Number 7, that instead of saying all fencing surrounding the project, it would say all Meridian City Council November 12, 2002 Page 45 of 48 fencing on the northern boundary of this project shall be chain link. Double-check on number -- and this is also the one on Number 10 that I think at this juncture we would simply delete that as a condition. I think they will continue to work on that, but I don't think there is a necessity at this juncture to make a condition of the plat that they provide a public safety education center. I'd move to amend the findings of the Fire Department recommendation and just delete Number 10. I think those are all the amendments. De Weerd: I'd second that with some discussion. Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded. Discussion? De Weerd: I guess my concern is -- is the plat that's presented shows the building on it, so there needs to be some kind of reference to the school district and the Meridian Rural Fire District would work together on developing an agreement. If that doesn't happen, that that appendage is removed or something I don't know, but -- Nary: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: I guess -- I guess the intent is that all these parties are trying to get to this education center. If the school district wanted to live with that cut out like that -- I mean if, for some reason, they can't make an arrangement with Meridian -- with the City of Meridian Fire Department for that to be used for the Fire Department, it could be used for something else. Or they can come in and ask to amend the plat to get something accomplished, but it doesn't appear -- it doesn't appear to me on the plat it's necessary to put that as a condition of this plat that they have to arrange anything. I mean they can decide that the school themselves want to provide a facility and use it like that and that's fine, too. De Weerd: But if you mention something like that, would that eliminate the need to come in and amend the plat? I guess that's my only comment. If you put something in there and it doesn't turn out, it can't be worked, it's not doable, then you're almost requiring them to come in and amend the plat. Nary: Well, I think they are going to have to -- I mean I guess -- I'm sorry, Mr. Mayor. I think if they are going to -- if they are not going to use that for -- whether it's the Meridian Fire Department or somebody else, to put an educational function there, they will have to amend the plat anyway. Because if they don't want to use it and they can't use it for bus parking, there is nothing else for them to do with it, they will have to amend it anyway. I guess I'm afraid of trying to be too restrictive in the plat condition. You know, all the plat is is that division and just that's what the piece of ground looks like and our hope is that it's going to be used for an educational center of some sort. De Weerd: Okay. Meridian City Council November 12, 2002 Page 46 of 48 Corrie: Any other discussion? Okay. Roll call vote, Mr. Berg, if you're awake. Roll call vote: McCandless, absent; Nary, aye; DeWeerd, aye; Bird, aye. Corrie: All ayes. One absent. Approved. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT Corrie: Now, the request for Conditional Use Permit. Nary: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: I'd move the approval of CUP 02-035, a request for Conditional Use Permit for an Educational Campus consisting of an elementary school, charter/professional technical high school building and a school administration in an R-4 zone for the Education Campus Subdivision by Joint School District No. 2. To include all staff comments and recommendations of the Planning and Zoning Commission and if my notes are correct, I think the only thing we need to clarify is in regards to a micropath. I'm trying to figure -- I missed the number for that. Hawkins-Clark: I'm sorry. That was actually on the previous item. Nary: Oh, it was on item -- oh. Okay so it doesn't need to be amended in here. Do we need to go back and amend it on the other one, then? I don't think -- I don't think the requirement was -- it says proposed pedestrian pathway on the south side of the property and there is a -- Hawkins-Clark: Item Number 8 on the Preliminary Plat, I believe, is what you're referring to, Councilman Nary. Nary: Well, it doesn't -- I mean all it says is they have to enter into negotiations. Probably nothing else -- if they have done that, that's fine so we probably don't need to amend that. Then, I don't notice any other amendments to the Conditional Use Permit. I guess the only other thing I would note is that we don't really do conceptual approval of the other buildings. I mean they have presented that to us, but they are still going to have to come forward and my recollection is we don't have a conceptual approval process, so although that's included in what they requested, there isn't anything there, so there is nothing for us to approve. Is that not right? Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Meridian City Council November 12, 2002 Page 47 of 48 Bird: In your motion, we -- that condition is in both the CUP for the fire safety thing and it's also in the CUP, so we need to eliminate it in the CUP condition. It's number ten. Nary: Oh. Okay. I'm sorry. Then we would amend -- then my motion would be to amend Fire Department Condition Number 10, to delete that. That would be the only amendment, then, to the proposed recommendation. Bird: I will second. Corrie: Okay. Bird: Did you want the attorney to draw up the Findings of Facts? Nary: Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision of Order. Yes. I'm sorry. Mr. Willis will put that in. Corrie: Any other discussion? Okay. Roll call vote, Mr. Berg. Roll call vote: McCandless, absent; Nary, aye; DeWeerd, aye; Bird, aye. Corrie: Okay. All ayes. Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT Corrie: All right. That does it for this evening, folks, on the agenda. If anybody has anything good for the order, we will entertain a motion to close the Regular Council Meeting. De Weerd: I move we adjourn. Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Okay. Mr. Bird. Bird: And, Council, I hope we all agree on this. You know, we discuss -- we started our Pre-Council Meetings and went to our four weeks and stuff and I, for one, think it's worked out real good. I really enjoy getting out of here at 9:30, 10:00. I don't know about the rest of you guys -- I don't know about the staff, I think the Pre-Councils have been very, very informative and very good for us. They prepare us for stuff that -- whose ever idea this was, I want to thank them and I appreciate it. If it's yours, Mayor, you can take all the credit, because I truly love getting out of here at this time. Corrie: Well, I agree, too, but probably one of the things that I talked about with the Council president is maybe something they wanted to address at Council and that's a good reason to have a Pre-Council where they can could do, but you're absolutely right. With that, I will entertain a motion, then, Mrs. De Weerd, to close -- Meridian City Council November 12, 2002 Page 48 of 48 Bird: I second. Corrie: Okay. All in favor say aye. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT Corrie: Okay. Closed at 9:30. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:30 P.M. (TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) APPROVED: / / ROBERT D. CORRIE, MAYOR DATE ATTESTED: WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., CITY CLERK