HomeMy WebLinkAbout2002 10-08
Meridian City Council Meeting October 8, 2002
The Regular Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:05 P.M. on
Tuesday, October 8, 2002, by Mayor Robert D. Corrie.
Members Present: Mayor Robert Corrie, Tammy de Weerd, Keith Bird, Cherie
McCandless and William Nary.
Others Present: Bill Nichols, Steve Siddoway, Gary Smith, Brad Watson, Ken Bowers,
Dean Willis and Will Berg.
Item 1. Roll-call Attendance:
X Tammy de Weerd X Bill Nary
X Cherie McCandless X Keith Bird
X Mayor Robert Corrie
Corrie: At this time I will open the Regular City Council Meeting, Tuesday, October 8,
2002, at 7:05 P.M., in the City Council Chambers. I would like to have roll-call
attendance, please, by the City Clerk.
Item 2: Adoption of the Agenda:
Corrie: Okay. Again, I apologize to the audience for not being here right on time but we
got it pretty close. Council, Item Number 2 is the Adoption of the Agenda. Item Number
6 is a resolution approving the Wastewater Treatment Program Fees and Adjustments
that will be Resolution Number 02-393. Then Item 7, Ordinance Number AZ 02-013,
the request for annexation and zoning of the middle school is Ordinance Number 02-
977 and then Number 8 would be Ordinance Number 02-978. Okay any other
additions or corrections?
De Weerd: I have none.
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Okay. I'll entertain a motion on the Adoption of the Agenda.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would move that we would adopt the agenda as -- the revised agenda as
published.
De Weerd: Second.
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October 8, 2002
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Corrie: Okay. You have heard the motion. Is there any other discussion? All in favor of
the adoption of the agenda as amended say aye. Opposed no? All ayes. Motion
carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Item 3. Consent Agenda:
A. September 24, 2002
Approve minutes from City Council Joint
Meeting with Ada County Commissioners:
B. September 24, 2002
Approve minutes from City Council Regular
Meeting:
C. Order of Decision: AP 02-001
Request for Appeal to allow gate
on rear property line for access to rear yard of residence from
Todd Burlile Todd Burlile
NMID access road behind lot for by –
4881 West Tournament Drive:
D. Heritage Commons (Quenzer Commons) Subdivision No. 1
Streetlight Agreement, Brighton Corporation:
E. Sewer Service Reimbursement Agreement, White Drain Trunk
Project – Sundance Limited, Sundance Subdivision:
F. Addendum to Agreement for Professional Services – South
Slough Sewer Trunk Extension Project, JUB Engineers:
G. Change Order No. 1 (final) – Meridian High School Water Line
Project:
H. Award of Contract for Variable Frequency Drives – Well No. 10
and Well No. 14:
Corrie: Item Number 3 is the Consent Agenda.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I move we approve the Consent Agenda and authorize the Mayor to sign
and the Clerk attest on Resolution Number 976, Ordinance Number 02-977 --
Bird: No.
Corrie: That's not --
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October 8, 2002
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De Weerd: Okay. Sorry. Can't I just do them all at the same time and authorize the
Mayor to sign on all contracts.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Any further discussion?
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: On Item C I just wanted it noted that I was going to vote naye on that particular
item, but I vote in the affirmative on all the other items.
Corrie: Okay. Any other discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote, Mr. Clerk.
Roll Call vote: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; DeWeerd, aye; Bird, aye.
Berg: All ayes, except for noted on Item C.
Nary: Thank you.
Item 4. Department Reports:
Corrie: Thank you. Item Number 4 is Department Reports. We have none at this point.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I just would like to note a letter that we got from Greg Bower, the Ada
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Prosecuting Attorney, dated September 25, to Kenny Bowers, our Fire Chief,
commending the Fire Department and Deputy Chief Silva for the work that they did in
the Settie Goins case. As he ended his letter, Deputy Chief Silva is a credit to his
profession and to the Meridian Fire Department and he indicated his appreciation of the
work that Deputy Chief Silva and the department lent to that investigation. Kenny, if you
could, please, pass our thanks on to your staff and your department and note that it was
a great job.
Bowers: Thank you.
Item 5. (Items Moved from Consent Agenda)
Corrie: Okay. Item Number 5, Items Moved from the Consent Agenda, I would like to
have a motion on the decision that was temporarily made in the Executive Session.
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October 8, 2002
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Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would move that we enter into an agreement with Ringert Clark as our
representative in the IMAP Water Resources and for the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to
attest, with suspension of rules.
Nary: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded. Any further discussion? All
those in favor say aye. Opposed no? All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Item 6. Resolution No. : Approving Wastewater
Pretreatment Program Fees and Adjustments:
Corrie: Number 6 is Resolution Number 02-393, approving Wastewater Treatment
Program Fees and Adjustments. Any discussion from Council?
Nichols: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, I think the water -- excuse me -- the
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Wastewater Department asked that those fees be affective January 1. I'm -- we have
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sent over to the clerk a revised page that has that January 1 date in it, but the copy
you have may have blanks in it. It's the recommendation of your Wastewater
Department that it be effective January 1, 2003.
Corrie: Any further discussion?
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I guess since I have already tried to approve this, I will make a motion to
approve Resolution -- that we approve Resolution 02-393, approving the Wastewater
Program Fees and Adjustments, effective date January 1, 2003, and ask the Mayor to
sign and the Clerk to attest, with suspension of rules.
McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion to approve Resolution Number 02-393, with an effective date of
January 1, 2003. Any further discussion? Roll call vote, Mr. Clerk.
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October 8, 2002
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Roll Call vote: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; DeWeerd, aye; Bird, aye.
Corrie: Okay. All ayes. Resolution is approved.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Item 7. Ordinance No. : AZ 02-013
Request for
annexation and zoning of 40.48 acres from RUT to R-4 zones for a
Meridian Middle School
for Joint School District No. 2 by Lombard
Conrad Architects – east side of North Linder Road, north of West Ustick
Road:
Corrie: Item Number 7 is Ordinance Number 02-977. This is a request for annexation
and zoning of 40.48 acres from RUT to an R-4 zone for Meridian Middle School for Joint
School District No. 2 by Lombard Conrad Architects, east side of North Linder Road and
north of West Ustick Road. At this time, we would like to have Ordinance Number 02-
977 read by its title only at this time.
Berg: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council Ordinance Number 02-977. An
Ordinance finding that certain land to be known as the Middle School for Meridian
located on the east side of the North Linder Road, north of West Ustick Road, which lies
contiguous or adjacent to the city limits of the City of Meridian, County of Ada, State of
Idaho, and finding that the owner of Joint School District No. 2 has made a request for
annexation in writing to the Council, that said land be annexed to the City of Meridian
and zoning designated Low Density Residential District (R-4) and declaring that said
land by property legal description as described below be a part of the City of Meridian,
County of Ada, State of Idaho, repealing all ordinances, resolutions, orders, or parts
thereof in conflict herewith and directing the city engineer to add said property to the
official map of the City of Meridian, Idaho, and directing the clerk of the City of Meridian
to file a certified copy of the ordinance and map of the area to be annexed with the Ada
County recorder, auditor, treasurer, and assessor and the State Tax Commission of the
State of Idaho, pursuant to Idaho Code Section 50-223 and Section 63-2215.
Corrie: Okay. You have heard the reading of Ordinance Number 02-977 read by title
only. Is there anyone in the audience that would like to have the ordinance read in its
entirety? Hearing none, Council, I will entertain a motion on Ordinance Number 02-977.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I move the approval of Ordinance Number 02-977, request for annexation and
zoning of 40.48 acres from RUT to an R-4 zone for the Meridian Linder Middle School is
what it's titled at the moment, with -- pursuant to Idaho Code, with suspension of rules.
McCandless: Second.
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October 8, 2002
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Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded. Is there any further discussion?
Hearing none, roll call vote, Mr. Berg.
Roll Call vote: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; DeWeerd, aye; Bird, aye.
Corrie: All ayes. Motion is carried on the Ordinance Number 02-977.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Item 8. Ordinance No. : AZ 02-014
Request for
Treasure
annexation and zoning of 4.39 acres from R-2 to L-O zones for
Valley Baptist Church
by Treasure Valley Baptist Church – 1300 South
Teare Avenue:
Corrie: Item Number 8 is Ordinance Number 02-978. It is a request for annexation and
zoning of 4.39 acres from R-2 to L-O zones for Treasure Valley Baptist Church by
Treasure Valley Baptist Church, 1300 South Teare Avenue. At this time I would like to
have the City Clerk read Ordinance Number 02-978 by title only, please.
Berg: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council Ordinance Number 02-978. An
Ordinance finding that certain land to be known as Treasure Valley Baptist Church
located at 1300 South Teare Avenue, North of Overland Road, and which lies
contiguous or adjacent to the city limits of the City of Meridian, County of Ada, State of
Idaho, and finding that the owner has made a request for annexation in writing to the
Council and that said land be annexed to the City of Meridian and zoning designated
General Retail and Limited Office District (L-O) and declaring that said land by proper
legal description as described below be a part of the City of Meridian, County of Ada,
State of Idaho, repealing all ordinances, resolutions, orders, or parts thereof in conflict
herewith and directing the city engineer to add said property to the official map of the
City of Meridian, Idaho, and directing the clerk of the City of Meridian to file a certified
copy of the ordinance and map of the area to be annexed with the Ada County recorder,
auditor, treasurer, and assessor and the State Tax Commission of the State of Idaho,
pursuant to Idaho Code Section 50-223 and Section 63-2215.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor, I noted an error in the title. It should be -- I think it's zoned all L-O
and I don't think there is any General Commercial, if I recall correctly. That part of the
title should be struck. It is limited office is what they asked for.
Bird: Not General Retail.
Nichols: Correct.
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October 8, 2002
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Corrie: Okay. Is there anyone from the audience that would like to have Ordinance
Number 02-978 read in its entirety? Hearing none, I will entertain a motion on the
request.
McCandless: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. McCandless.
McCandless: I move that we approve Ordinance Number 02-978, request for
annexation and zoning of 4.39 acres from R-2 to L-O zones for Treasure Valley Baptist
Church, 1300 South Teare Avenue, and noting that in the title the word General Retail
be stricken, with the suspension of rules.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded to approve the ordinance as
amended. Any further discussion? Okay. Roll call vote, Mr. Clerk.
Roll Call vote: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; DeWeerd, aye; Bird, aye.
Corrie: Okay. All ayes. Ordinance Number 02-978 is approved.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Item 9: Public Hearing: Meridian Development Corporation’s Meridian
Revitalization Plan:
Corrie: Item Number 9 is a Public Hearing on the Meridian Development Corporation's
Meridian Revitalization Plan. At this time I will open the Public Hearing and we will first
hear from staff -- or members of the -- raise your right hand, please. Is the testimony
you're about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you
God?
Bowman: Yes.
Bird: Name and address for the record, please, Clair.
Bowman: My name is Clair Bowman. I live at 4400 West Legacy Lane, Meridian,
Idaho. I'm here this evening, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, to begin a pretty
significant step in what has been a multi-year process at this point. Discussions of how
to address ongoing issues in downtown Meridian or in Old Town Meridian have been
ongoing for at least a dozen years that I know personally of. In the last couple there is a
group who have moved this forward to the point where we are today. I'd like to identify
just a couple of those folks. Jim Johnson, who is the Chair of the Meridian
Development Corporation now, who is not here this evening, unable to be here, has
been one of the leading people in this. We have also had participation by a committee
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October 8, 2002
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that included Lori Jones, Terry Smith, Rich Allison, Gary Benoit, Meg Peters, Malcolm
McCoy, Ann Molenaar-Schram, Teri Sackman, Council Members de Weerd and Bird
and Mayor Corrie, at one time or another, have all participated in those original
discussions. I'm here tonight as Vice-Chair of the Meridian Development Corporation
representing the board to introduce the staff comments. We will have three comments,
Steve Siddoway, a member of the Meridian Planning and Zoning staff, will review the
goals for the plan, in his words, try to provide some of the sizzle that goes with it. Ryan
Armbruster, the Attorney for the Meridian Development Corporation, will walk through
the legalities of the -- of what we have accomplished in meeting the goals for the plan
and meeting the deadlines and requirements of state law. David Eberle will provide an
overview of the public improvements and financing plan. We do have a couple of
members of the board here tonight. Linda Rupe is sitting back here this evening. I
thought I saw Clarence Jones come in. Yes. As well. I believe those are the only
board members who are here tonight, other that the two City Council members sitting
up here. With that, I will cease my remarks and turn it over to Mr. Steve Siddoway.
Corrie: Steve, I don't need to swear you in. You're already sworn in.
Siddoway: Okay. Thank you, Mayor.
Corrie: Name and address, please.
Siddoway: Steve Siddoway, 685 West Woodbury Drive, also on the Planning and
Zoning staff. I have been working as staff for the Meridian Development Corporation
since its inception and what we have tonight is the Public Hearing for the adoption of the
Meridian Revitalization Plan. It's the plan that we hope to adopt in order to set in place
a plan for urban renewal for revitalization of our downtown, to address gateway issues,
and spur economic development. For the Council and the members of the audience
that were here for the workshop a couple weeks ago, some of this will sound redundant,
but there may be audience members who are here for the hearing tonight for which this
may benefit, so we are going to go through a summary of that plan for everyone here
tonight. What are we trying to accomplish with this plan? It started with a vision that --
that we wanted downtown to be a more lively, vibrant place. We wanted to attract
businesses downtown. We went through a process called the Treasure Valley Futures
Project a couple of years ago, which there was a lot of public participation and a lot of
interest generated in getting downtown revitalized and looked at in an active fashion.
Following that effort, the MDC Board was created and this plan before you tonight is the
culmination of those efforts over the past couple of years. We know that downtown
Meridian is the historic center of our community. We want to emphasize that, celebrate
that, and try to realize some of the potential that's sitting out there to make this a
destination attraction for the valley. We envision that as a mixed-use environment
where businesses and residential, offices, parks coexist side by side in an urban
environment where people come and enjoy being. We want to make sure there are
amenities for -- to make it pedestrian and bicycle friendly. We love the New
Generations Plaza and we want to encourage more such public spaces in our
downtown and within the urban renewal area. There was a great effort in 1991 that
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October 8, 2002
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added sidewalks and most of the streetscaping on the main streets that you see today.
We want to further that effort and continue to provide for improved access, better
sidewalks, and streetscaping. The MDC wants to look at transportation and parking
issues in the downtown. Constantly we hear about parking problems and that's one
thing we hope to address. Overall, I think we just want to beautify this area. Now the
question is how and that's what the plan is for. How are we going to accomplish this
vision that we have? By adopting the plan, the events that will be set in motion include
getting a full-time staff person as part of the MDC to start addressing these issues on a
daily basis. Some of those things that he will be tasked with -- one will be a facade
improvement program for downtown businesses. Some of the money we receive will be
dedicated to facade improvement grants or loans to local businesses in the downtown
area to help them improve their properties. The MDC wants to do what it can to help
get a city hall -- a new city hall downtown. We feel that that is an important commitment
for the city to make to show that we are committed to this area as a growing area where
people will come. We plan to build a parking structure to help address those parking
issues downtown. We want to take a look at the gateway improvements into the city
from the interchange out at the Meridian Road interchange and coming into Old Town
district. We need to look at public facility improvements that may be needed to help
serve larger development. Those public facilities may include increased sewer capacity
or fire hydrant needs. They haven't specifically been nailed down, but that would be a
task assigned to this body. They will be adopting design standards for the Old Town
area. That effort is underway. I met with Sherry McKibben today. We are working
through a draft to bring to the board next month for design standards in the Old Town
area and urban renewal boundaries. We want to help create incentives for economic
development, so that the new businesses are not always attracted to the fringe of our
city. We want downtown to be an active, lively, growing place and then just a brief bit
about our process, where we have been, where we are, and where we are going. A
little over a year ago on July 24, 2001, the Council did establish the need for the Urban
Renewal Agency and appointed those board members that were introduced tonight by
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Clair. Moving forward to just a couple months ago, on August 27, the City Council
adopted the Eligibility Report, establishing the boundaries that you see outlined in black,
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as our urban renewal area. Two days later on August 29 the Planning and Zoning
Commission did review this plan and make the required finding that it was in compliance
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with the Comprehensive Plan. Then on September 17, we were before you in a
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workshop setting making this presentation and then since that time, on September 26,
there has been a presentation made to the Chamber of Commerce Economic
Development Committee and it was well received there. Tonight is our Public Hearing
as required by State Law and, what's next we hope to adopt this plan. There is a
process underway to get the area in black that you see on that map, which is actually
shown in black because it designates the portion of our urban renewal area that's
county property. We are in process of securing the approval of the County
Commissioners for that area and then we have to get that down and approved by the
Tax Commission by the end of the year to have this in effect. With that, I will stand for
any questions or turn some time over to Mr. Armbruster. Thank you.
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October 8, 2002
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Corrie: Thank you, Steve. Is the testimony you're about to give the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Armbruster: Yes, it is.
Corrie: Name and address, please.
Armbruster: My name is Ryan Armbruster, P.O. Box 1539, Boise, Idaho 83701. I serve
as Agency Counsel for the Meridian Development Corporation and I'd like to just spend
a few minutes -- and I won't take a lot of your time tonight. Steve has done an excellent
job in summarizing some of the major objectives of the plan and we have also provided
you a short three-page -- five-page summary of the plan that you have available for you.
Essentially, my role here is to just summarize very briefly the statutory process, which
you are going through at this point. Tonight's hearing basically is a culmination of the
actions of the Meridian Development Corporation over these past six or seven months.
As we went through that process, certain challenges had to be met as required by the
statute and one of those included establishing the boundaries that Steve has outlined
for you on the map itself. As you know by your actions in August, we did make a
boundary change, a change we thought that was valuable for the city and the Meridian
Development Corporation and also complied with State Statute. As you flip through the
plan -- and I apologize, much of that plan text is, unfortunately, dictated by State Statute
and includes an awful lot of boilerplate. I have tried over the years to figure out a way
that we might be able to get a little bit more streamlined, but it never seems to happen
that way. The other challenge that we had during this particular plan is that sort of in
the middle or our planning process the State Legislature adopted several other
requirements that we needed to comply with as this plan, if it becomes effective, would
do so after the effective date of those statutory changes. We have included in the plan
the required recitation that the Meridian Development Corporation is, in fact, a public
body which complies with everything that the City Council complies with, including open
meetings, open public records, a budgetary process that complies with competitive
bidding laws and other such efforts that the city has been complying with for many
years. Essentially, when you kind of cut through the boilerplate, what this plan really
does is it provides a framework for what I would consider to be public-private and
public-public partnerships, provides an economic development opportunity for the
Meridian Development Corporation and the City of Meridian to move forward over the
life of the plan. It does set out, I think, a very finite public infrastructure plan that it
intends to implement over a very limited period of time in the 24 years as stated in the
plan, over a very specific geographic area. It's an effort that would allow the Meridian
Development Corporation to join forces with both public and private entities, provide
economic development tools, one of the very few that's available to local government
under the State of Idaho statutory framework. It does acknowledge very clearly the
involvement and jurisdiction of the Ada County Highway District and, as Steve has
mentioned, we have attempted to address the fact that there is some property within the
geographic boundary that is outside the current city limits. We would need a resolution
or ordinance from the County Commissioners for this plan to be effective for that
particular area. We have also provided in the plan, as a result of the changes to the
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State Statute, a termination or closeout procedure, acknowledged that the financial
limitation of no more than 10 percent of the city, by way of assessed value, be included
in this boundary area. We have indicated our efforts to try and put together a financial
plan that David Eberle will explain for us in just a few minutes. Tonight's Public Hearing
is basically the precursor for your consideration of a draft ordinance that would be
provided to you at a later date. The ordinance would make all the necessary findings
based upon the plan presented at the Public Hearing tonight. Thank you, Mayor and
Council, for your patience and I will turn time over now to David Eberle.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: Before Mr. Eberle, have you pursued the county and the portion that is in
the county at this time?
Armbruster: Mr. Mayor, Councilwoman de Weerd, what we have done is that the Mayor
and the Chairman of the MDC have written a formal letter to the chairman of the Ada
County Commission asking that they consider entering into either resolution or
ordinance for this property. That letter I know has been received. I have had some
preliminary contact with the deputy prosecuting attorney and I hope that I can get his
attention now with the letter being sent for us to move forward to the next step.
De Weerd: And what is the next step?
Armbruster: The next step I think -- and the Statute doesn't provide us a great deal of
guidance, but I think it would be simply a very short memorandum of understanding or
Memorandum of Agreement by MDC to the city and the Ada County Commission that
would say for a variety of reasons that we have spelled out in the letter, including the
fact that this area is within the city's impact area, it's surrounded on all sides by city
property, that the impact and the jurisdiction of this plan would apply to that property.
Hopefully it will be a very quick, brief process.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Armbruster: Thank you.
Corrie: Is the testimony you're about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
the truth, so help you God?
Eberle: Yes, it is.
Corrie: Name and address, please, Dave.
Eberle: Yes. My name is William David Eberle and I reside at 760 Harcourt Road,
Boise, Idaho 83702. Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, I was retained by the Meridian
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October 8, 2002
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Development Corporation to conduct an economic and fiscal impact of the Meridian
Development Corporation's plan for redeveloping the urban renewal area as shown on
the map. Basically, this consists of three steps. The first is calculating the revenue
estimates that will be generated from the tax increment financing in the urban renewal
area. Essentially it's involves not only the current mill levy rate, the forecast for which
way those mill rates are expected to go in the future because of statutory limitations,
expected growth rate of both new construction, as well as inflationary values on the
existing property go into this calculation. There are a couple of things to note here. The
first that depending on the approximate growth rate, whether historic or what the County
Assessor has experienced in the last two years over the period of life of the urban
renewal area and the Meridian Development Corporation, they can expect 126 and 134
million dollars for that period. What you note is on average that's a little over a million
dollars a year. However, in the first five years they will earn anywhere from 1.5 to 1.7.
As you can see, this is a fairly back-end loaded revenue stream and challenge to the
Meridian Development Corporation and its plan is how to get development started today
when the revenues, in fact, occur in the latter years of its existence. The second thing,
these are fairly large numbers. I thought I would just take a minute to explain how the
Meridian Development Corporation earns money and its impact on both the city and the
surrounding community and I do this by way of a similar example, if we had a parcel of
land in the year 2002, if this plan is adopted before year end, valued at 100 dollars, it
would be taxed at approximately 14 mills and go to various taxing agencies. Starting in
the year 2003, that land value might increase five percent or on 100 dollars it would now
be worth 105. The income to the Meridian Development Corporation would be the mill
levy on the five dollars. The 100-dollar tax would continue to flow to the city and the
other taxing jurisdictions, being the school and mosquito abatement and others that you
have. One exception to that are schools. The schools continue up to four mills,
depending on their mill levy rate, will continue to receive their funds from that new five
dollars in increased value on the land. Then say in the year three, a building is put on
that land, so now the land is 105 dollars, plus a 20-dollar building. Now the tax
increment financing is assessed on 25 dollars, the value of the new building that was
not there in 2002, as well as the increased land value and that's what goes to the
coffers of the Meridian Development Corporation and to the school district. Okay. The
100 dollars continues to flow to the city and then the other taxing jurisdictions. Now
there are a couple of compensations given to the city by the taxing jurisdictions for this
diversion of tax revenues. The first is any new construction that occurs in the zone, is
allowed to be credited against the increased revenues outside the urban renewal zone,
and the reason that's important is because of the three percent growth limit on revenue,
except for new construction. It allows you to grow a little faster than the statutory limit
outside of the zone. The second thing that typically occurs in an urban renewal area, if
they do their job and stimulate grow, is it will not only attract new construction and
growth into the urban renewal area, but it additionally tends to attract more growth to the
surrounding area, which adds to the greater tax base. That's basically the revenue
forecast and just a very brief description of the process in developing it. Then the task
moves to looking at the programs that were outlined by Mr. Siddoway and those
included both large capital expenditures, which -- if I can find that page -- include both --
or include the new Meridian City Hall, a 250 stall parking structure, purchase of land,
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October 8, 2002
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gateway and infrastructure improvements for enhancement to the entrance of the
community. Additionally, there is a program in for streetscape and facade
improvements, as well as a public facilities upgrade. Essentially, this gives you just the
first few years. The reason I put this up is that given the amount of money that we
projected to put in here, it shows down on the bottom line -- I'm sorry. The color doesn't
show up, in fact there is a negative -- only in year seven does the urban renewal area or
the Meridian Development Corporation have to engage in short-term funding where they
are a little bit short of their revenue. The plan essentially keeps them whole with a small
bridge loan in five years out to make the plan happen. How that occurs is, essentially, a
combination of methods and essentially what the Meridian Development Corporation
will be doing is utilizing their bonding authority under State Statute and also the Idaho
Municipal Bond Bank. This particular plan projects that they will be using a 4.5 percent
bond interest rate, which is the current interest rate in the market, zero percent
financing, because the State of Idaho Municipal Bond Bank allows that over a 30 year
period to pay for large capital programs. Additionally, for the one year with a small
shortfall, they will probably need to secure a line of credit against the future flow of
income somewhere around 200 to 500,000 dollars. Finally, because of the bonding and
necessity for construction, they will probably need a short-term bridge loan while the
parking garage is being built before the bonds are issued to cover the cost of
construction during that period and this will keep the municipal -- the Meridian, excuse
me, Development Corporation solvent and on a firm financial foundation throughout its
life. With that, I think that concludes my presentation and at this point I will offer all of
the members who spoke up before me to be available for questions, as well as myself.
Thank you for the time.
Corrie: Thank you, David. Any questions of Council?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Okay very good job. Okay. This is a Public Hearing on the Meridian
Development Corporation Meridian Revitalization Plan. I have three people here that
signed the sheet that would like to speak, I presume. Chuck McLaughlin, Terry Smith,
and Linda Rupe. Chuck McLaughlin. Chuck? Thank you, Chuck. Terry Smith. Is the
testimony you're about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so
help you God?
Smith: Yes.
Corrie: Name and address, please, Terry.
Smith: Mayor Corrie, Members of the City Council, I --
Corrie: Name.
Smith: Oh. My name is Terry P. Smith. I live at 713 East Kingsford Drive, Meridian,
Idaho.
Meridian City Council Meeting
October 8, 2002
Page 14 o f 59
Corrie: Thank you.
Smith: Mayor Corrie, Members of the City Council, over the years I have had a very
personal interest as a citizen in the development of downtown, involved as part of the
leadership in a program that was initiated in '91 that provided curbs, gutters,
landscaping, uniform lighting, and so on and improved streets. The MDC's
Development process I was very fortunate to be involved in as well and so as a result of
my experience and wanting and making a better place for Meridian and our group going
back to the '91 group, is the one that came up with the concept and the initial design for
Generations Plaza. The Meridian Development Corporation is absolutely essential, in
my view, to the future development and growth of downtown Meridian. Investors and
business projects will continue to be attractive to the available land outside of
downtown, outside of the boundary of the urban renewal area. However, downtown
Meridian is not likely to be a similar attraction without the Meridian Development
Corporation, which provides tax increment financing, elimination of a process that slows
things down called Conditional Use Permits. It provides a very clear plan of vision that
investors need to invest in any area, and they will invest, I predict, in Old Town and the
urban renewal area with the plan and vision of the MDC. I am looking forward to the
future of downtown with, you know, apartment buildings, improved parking, hotels,
shops, a new city hall, more open spaces, pocket parks, similar, but larger than
Generations Plaza, improved access on two-way streets, since I observed that in the
plan of the Meridian Development Corporation two way streets, pedestrian friendly
streets, beautiful streetscapes and an attractive community gateway. As a citizen of
Meridian, I urge approval of the Meridian Revitalization Plan.
Corrie: Thank you, Terry. Linda Rupe. Is the testimony you're about to give the truth,
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Rupe: It is.
Corrie: Name and address, please.
Rupe: Linda Rupe, 1422 Rutledge Avenue in Meridian. Mr. Mayor and Council, I am
here to present the official standing of the Meridian Merchants Association, as president
of the association. We have had meetings and discussed the revitalization plan for
downtown Meridian. We are in support of this plan and we are excited about this plan.
We do have a concern about the traffic, which we understand is a task of ACHD, more
than it is of the city. However, we do have concerns that regardless how beautiful we
make it, if we can't get into town and if we can't get out of town, it's not going to happen.
We do have definite concerns about the traffic issues. A large part of the Merchants
Association has brought forward several times the concerns of traffic and how we will
move traffic through town or around town or whatever approach we will take, but we are
in great support of this plan and we urge approval of this plan.
Meridian City Council Meeting
October 8, 2002
Page 15 o f 59
Corrie: Thank you, Linda. Is there anyone else from the public that would like to issue
testimony? Yes, sir. Mr. Alleman. Is the testimony you're about to give the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Alleman: Yes.
Corrie: Name and address, please.
Alleman: My name Vern Alleman. My address is 2101 East Ustick, Meridian. I have
some concerns about the plan and I will mention what I saw going on in Nampa. They
have a blighted area that was designated and they took the Urban Renewal Plan, went
out, and built the Idaho Center that did not do anything for the blighted area, as far as
I'm concerned. Here I'm still concerned that this is more of a business promotion than it
is for the residential part of the town. I don't see anybody on the board representing the
residential and I think there should be. To me it seems like it's really geared for just
business. Of course, I do have some concerns -- how do they acquire property to do
what they want to do? Do you condemn it? Can you condemn it? What rights do you
have? Who determines who is on the board? Is it up to the -- who gets to choose the
board? Is it open to the public? I'm concerned about the way the public is being
represented and as far as the meeting today, I didn't see much in the paper about it. I
think it's important. It should have been better advertised. That's my concerns.
Corrie: Okay. Anyone else? Bob. Is the testimony you're about to give the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Chandler: Yes.
Corrie: Name and address, please.
Chandler: Bob Chandler, 598 West Franklin. On behalf of the Meridian Chamber
Board of Directors and the Economic Development Committee and the Chamber, we
are in favor of the Meridian Revitalization Urban Renewal Plan and the powers being
given to Meridian Development Corporation. Thank you.
Corrie: Thank you, Bob. Anyone else? Okay. To answer one of the questions that I
can answer, Vern, is that the board was appointed by the Mayor and confirmed by the
City Council. We did look at the community and people that wanted to be involved in
this and that's how we chose the board. Everybody was invited to be a part of that
board and not everybody could serve on it, but we found that we felt that the ones that
we had at that time on the board were best suited for the City of Meridian. Now the
other question, any of you gentlemen like to answer?
Armbruster: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, in response to the property acquisition
question, yes, the Urban Renewal Agency under State Law does have the power to
acquire property and can acquire property very similar to any other public entity, by way
of negotiation, voluntary acquisition, or, I suppose, in direst of circumstances, could
Meridian City Council Meeting
October 8, 2002
Page 16 o f 59
invoke its condemnation authority. I can tell you that at least in my experience and in
many, many other cities throughout the state, the condemnation authority is rarely used.
In the 20 years of practice that I have been at this, we have yet to really file one. It's an
acquisition authority that I think is used very sparingly by redevelopment agencies and
within the confines of the text of this plan, there is not a lot of widespread property
acquisition that is intended in the objectives of this particular plan. Thank you.
Corrie: Thank you. Council, any discussion on the request for approval of the Meridian
Development Corporation? Okay. Any discussion that you want to have on the public
record while it's open?
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I guess just two comments, also, to answer for Vern and his concerns. We
do have a property owner on the board, Linda Rupe owns property in that area of
impact as well, and we have a smaller area of impact than the City of Nampa did with
theirs. Ours is a lot more confined. The percentage is definitely significantly smaller
than the area that Nampa has initiated and I think the commitment and it's reflected in
the report, in particular, the study that Mr. Eberle did, is really confined to a small area
to start the project in and that's a three block radius -- yes, it says flour block radius? Is
that correct, Steve? Could maybe you address that part of it?
Siddoway: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, the plan breaks down the urban
renewal area into zones and the core zone in the plan, called the blue zone -- we just
picked colors randomly -- but it focuses around the current Generations Plaza, city hall
area, over here to Broadway and over to Pine. That is intended to be an initial focus
and then growing outward. There may also be pushed forward an early focus out
towards the freeway by the presentation made recently by Mark Canfield in his interest
in redeveloping property along Waltman Lane. We intend to make those facade
improvement grants available to local business owners to help address some of the
blight issues directly and early on. I guess that would be my response.
De Weerd: And the plan does include not only business type of issues, but residential
as well; is that correct?
Siddoway: Yes and, in fact, the design guidelines that we are working on right now,
establish design characteristics for both areas to differentiate between what we would
be requiring in those residential areas that are primarily residential and those that are
more commercial in nature. We are trying to consider the entire area, including the
residential portion.
De Weerd: Thank you. I have nothing further.
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October 8, 2002
Page 17 o f 59
Corrie: Okay. If Council has no further objection, I will entertain a motion to close the
Public Hearing.
De Weerd: So moved.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded to close the Public Hearing. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Corrie: Further discussion? Hearing none, the question before the Commission is the
adoption of the Meridian Revitalization Plan as presented tonight.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council -- and Mr. Armbruster can correct me if I'm
wrong, but I think to adopt the plan there has to be an ordinance to actually adopt the
plan.
Corrie: That's correct.
Nichols: And so I think the motion that you're looking for would be for an ordinance to
be prepared and brought forward to the Council to adopt that plan.
Corrie: That's correct.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: With that I would move that we instruct the attorney to draw up the ordinance
pertaining to the approvement of the Meridian Development Corporation's Meridian
Revitalization Plan and to get it on the docket.
Nary: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded. Is there any further discussion?
Okay. Hearing none, let's have a roll call vote, Mr. Clerk, just to make sure that we got
it.
Berg: Thank you, Mr. Mayor --
Meridian City Council Meeting
October 8, 2002
Page 18 o f 59
Bird: Before we have that, who is going to draft that, our attorney or --
Nary: It's our ordinance.
Bird: It's our ordinance, so our attorney --
Roll Call vote: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; DeWeerd, aye; Bird, aye.
Corrie: All ayes and I don't get a vote, but if I did it would be a yea as well. All right.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
De Weerd: I'm sorry, I know it's been said many times, but Steve has spent a lot of time
and energy on this plan, as well as the board and our consultants and it's a good strong
plan, it's aggressive. I think we should see its effect. We have high expectations,
Steve, of this, but I would like to commend Steve and all of his efforts, as well as those
of the board and the committee. Appreciate your efforts.
Siddoway: Thank you very much. I'd just point out that I couldn't do without these
consultants, David Eberle and Ryan Armbruster, they have done a lot behind the
scenes that never does get seen, so thank you to them.
Corrie: I, too, want to commend the board. They have done a tremendous job. Friday
at noon, I will say it again so if you want to be there, I will be glad to repeat it.
Corrie: All right. Item Numbers 10, 11, and 12 is a Continued Public Hearing on
Lochsa Falls Subdivision. It has been requested -- is there anybody here that wanted to
have testimony on the Treasure Valley Business Park on the request for a Conditional
Use Permit, Preliminary, and Final Plat? Okay. We have got two back there. That's
the ones that -- that's the applicant. Okay. Council, they requested that, if they could,
to go on Item Number 13 and 14 before we do 10, 11, and 12. Any objections?
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: 10, 11, and 12 have got two items, roadways and schools. We have got the
school representative here and we have got Ada County Highway District here. Let's
get those through. That shouldn't -- that was all -- that was re-opened for and continued
for was those two items on that Lochsa Falls.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
Meridian City Council Meeting
October 8, 2002
Page 19 o f 59
De Weerd: It also requires -- or was requested an update on the north Meridian
planning area, too, which could take some time, so -- and if we wanted to take 13 and
14 prior to that, that might simplify that. I don't have a problem with it.
Nary: If you want us to make a motion --
Bird: You move it. You're the Mayor. You can move it.
Corrie: I couldn't move it --
Bird: You're the Mayor. Move it. That's fine with me.
Item 13.Public Hearing: CUP 02-022
Request for a Conditional Use Permitfor a
Treasure Valley Business
three building office complex in an I-L zone for
Park
by Clark Development – southwest corner of North Eagle Road and
East Fairview Avenue:
Item 14. Public Hearing: PFP 02-002
Request for Preliminary/Final Plat approval
Treasure Valley No. 2
of 3 building lots on 2.66 acres in an I-L zone for
Subdivision
by Clark Development -- southwest corner of North Eagle
Road and East Fairview Avenue:
Corrie: All right. Then the contention that all the -- that it be all right to move it. All
right. I have a unanimous consent on that and so we will move Items 13 and 14 up and
so I will open the Public Hearing on the request for Conditional Use Permit for a three
building complex in an I-L zone for Treasure Valley Business Park by Clark
Development. Also the request for a Preliminary/Final Plat approval on three lots by
Treasure Valley Subdivision. At this time I will open that Public Hearing and invite staff
comments first and then hopefully it will be very short. Steve.
Siddoway: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council. I got things switched over.
Item 13, Treasure Valley Business Park. I assume you'd like to take the
Preliminary/Final and the Conditional Use Permit together.
De Weerd: Yes, please.
Siddoway: Okay. There is a proposal before you tonight for the -- this lot in the
Treasure Valley Business Park. It is near the intersection of Fairview and Eagle on the
west side of Eagle Road. The Conditional Use Permit is to allow for multiple buildings
on one lot. They currently have pulled a Certificate of Zoning Compliance for the
Primary Health building at the north portion of the lot. They also intend to pull a permit,
as soon as this process is through, for the Meridian Family Dentistry project. The fact
that it's currently one lot would require them to get approved through the Planned
Development process, in as much as there is no -- not more than one primary structure
allowed on a lot without being approved through the Planned Development process.
That said, they are also proposing to plat it. These are their building elevations for the
Meridian City Council Meeting
October 8, 2002
Page 20 o f 59
proposed Primary Health building. Then the plat takes that same lot and splits it into
three lots for the three buildings that you saw on the previous slide. You should have a
staff report from Bruce Freckleton, Brad Hawkins-Clark, and Dave McKinnon, dated
th
August 29. I believe that the only truly outstanding issue on this project is whether or
not the Council will require a sidewalk along Eagle Road. Ordinance requires that the
sidewalk be built. There is sidewalk on the other side of Eagle Road, but the question is
whether it makes sense to require it here and I anticipate the applicant to address that
issue with you tonight. With that as an introduction, I will stand for any questions.
Corrie: All right. Thank you, Steve. Any other questions?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Applicant? Is the testimony you're about to give the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Strite: Yes, sir.
Corrie: Name and address, please.
Strite: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, Billy Ray Strite, 1010 Allante, Boise, Idaho.
I'm here, along with Steve Arnold from Briggs Engineering, in support of both
applications and I think that certainly we are pleased with the recommendations of the
Planning and Zoning Commission. From the standpoint -- I guess of both applications.
The only concern we have, as expressed by Steve, would be the potential for the
sidewalk along Eagle Road. If I could, I'd like to comment -- give you two things that we
feel are important relative to that sidewalk requirement. At the time that you approved
Ordinance -- I believe it's 1312-10-8 was in December of 2000. In December of 2000,
nd
Eagle Road was 30,000 cars a day. The last count 2002, February 2, it was 46,000
cars a day or some 50 percent higher than what it was at the time it was originally
anticipated. I was told today by ITD that they think the number may approximate closer
to 50,000 cars a day along Eagle Road. I think that's one thing that I'd like to have you
take under consideration. I think the second thing might be that south of this particular
site on the view foil there would be the southeasterly corner -- it would be the
northwesterly corner, if you will, of Blue Cross. Blue Cross does not have a sidewalk,
nor does the project to the south, which, by virtue of a variance in this Council,
eliminated the sidewalk. It's our contention that the safety hazard that might occur, if, in
fact, you force this project into a sidewalk that ends up nowhere, it comes south along
Eagle Road -- again, it's 50,000 cars a day. To a point where there is no sidewalk, they
are either going to be on bicycle or foot and then they are going to be walking into grass
and in our discussions with Blue Cross, they suggested that we provide interior
circulation. What we have done, since the plan that we had provided Steve -- the plans
that are now in the Building Department for approval, the Primary Health, now include
an internal walkway that goes from the south edge of our parcel, which would be the
southwest corner, if you will, proceeding north up to Florence. Then at Florence Street
we are proposing a stamped concrete pedestrian walk, so that people coming out of
Meridian City Council Meeting
October 8, 2002
Page 21 o f 59
Blue Cross can walk north and into the second path, which will be before the Planning
and Zoning Commission next month, the northerly half, which includes the Krispy
Kremes and the 26 building proposal there. It will pick up the sidewalk north of Florence
and then proceed north and west on Jewell until it reaches Hickories, and then back up
to Fairview. Having said that, I would like strong consideration by the Council to delete
that particular item in the recommendations of the Preliminary Plat and would be
available for any questions. I think that's all we have. We are very pleased with the
response we got from Planning and Zoning.
Corrie: Thank you, Billy. Any questions?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Okay. Thank you.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor, before Mr. Strite -- Mr. Strite? Can we have -- over here? Can we
have the date and the information off the plat in the record, so that we have -- we know
that when we put the findings together and this is approved, we have got the right plat,
in case there are others -- you know, the date it was drawn, who drew it, that kind of
information in the record, at the hearing, please.
Strite: Mr. Mayor, Mr. Attorney, certainly we have that available information. It's --
Steve Arnold is here to provide that. I think.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: And I don't know, Mr. Strite, if this question is for you or to Steve, but the site
specific condition I see talks about a five foot concrete sidewalk at Florence and Olive,
but it doesn't say which provision requires that on Eagle Road that we would be
amending if we --
Strite: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Nary, it does not -- by reference on the Conditional Use,
you will see that the -- the first condition is the approval of the Preliminary Plat and
conditions therefore. The Preliminary Plat makes reference to the five foot meandering
sidewalk based upon your ordinance and I believe it's 1312-10-8. Steve, is that right?
Wherein principal arterials require a five-foot sidewalk. That falls under the Preliminary
Plat and I think it might be Condition Number 1. Steve probably has a copy of that
Preliminary Plat. Both Steve’s. I do not have a copy of that, but I think you will find it in
your packet.
Siddoway: Mr. Mayor, the plat in the file here is dated July 9, 2002, and it has a
drawing number 20613. The stamp -- it's not stamped. There should -- this copy of the
plan is not stamped, though. There should be a stamped copy. Let me continue to
look.
Meridian City Council Meeting
October 8, 2002
Page 22 o f 59
Strite: Mr. Mayor, if I might, Mr. Attorney, is there a chance that we could just pass the
motion tonight with the condition that these be placed upon the plat for findings, just to
make this a little quicker?
Nichols: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, just to give you the background, we have
been through about four different requests for revisions to Findings of Fact, because the
plat we had in our file isn't the one that the developer or somebody said they showed to
this Council. In order to make this process cleaner -- and Mr. Arnold knows one of them
I'm talking about -- if we have got it in the record, it's in the minutes. Regardless of
whether I have got the right one or the wrong one in my file, it will be right in the findings
and on the record and we won't have so many problems that we have had lately. I'm
kind of springing this on staff and the applicant, but we have had too many of these of
late and I just as soon we get it on the record, take five minutes to do it here, as
opposed to three hours outside of the meeting.
Corrie: Is the testimony you're about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
the truth, so help you God?
Arnold: Correct.
Corrie: Name and address, please.
Arnold: For the record, my name is Steve Arnold with Briggs Engineering, 1800 West
Overland Road. I'm here tonight representing the Preliminary/Final Plat. First of all, I'd
like to appreciate that you moved us up on the agenda. I was feeling Lochsa Falls may
be a little bit longer than expected and I really appreciate being bumped up. Also, next
to the developer and the representative of the developer, I did talk to her and she said
that wouldn't be a problem. Anyway, I would like to thank you for that. I am aware of
the Findings of Fact error. We had that on Sundance and we submitted a revised plat
with a different date and with different phases on that and it was a problem and that
took some time to rectify that. For tonight's hearing on Treasure Valley Business Center
No. 2, the date stamp is July 9, 2002. I don't think that you're going to find a stamped
copy. I didn't have a stamped copy either. The July 9, 2002 would be the reference to
the Finding. I guess, Bill -- Mr. Strite addressed all the issues and I don't think I need to
go over all that, but if you were looking for the condition that specifically references the
sidewalk that we are asking to be waived, that would be Site Specific Condition Number
1. I'm sorry. I'm looking at the wrong one.
De Weerd: We found it.
Arnold: Which number?
De Weerd: It's on the Preliminary Plat Number 1, site specific --
Arnold: That's correct. That is the one. I will stand for any questions.
Meridian City Council Meeting
October 8, 2002
Page 23 o f 59
Siddoway: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Steve.
Siddoway: We have just been going through Gary Smith's file. The Preliminary Plat
does have the date of July 9, 2002 and not a stamp. The Final Plat that accompanies it
does have a stamp of July 18, 2002 and Mr. Arnold, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't
believe through the Planning and Zoning Commission process that there was a revised
plat submitted. I believe that it's still the original plat.
Arnold: That's correct. I apologize. I forgot there was a Final Plat. The Preliminary
Plat was dated July 9, 2002. That's correct.
Corrie: Mr. Nichols, does that satisfy your --
Nichols: Yes, Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Okay. This is a Public Hearing. Is there anyone from the audience that would
like to enter testimony? Okay. Council, do you have any other questions in the Public
Hearing?
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
Corrie: Okay.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I move we close the Public Hearing CUP 02-022 and Public Hearing PFP
02-002.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded to close the Public Hearing on Item 13
and 14. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion say aye.
All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Corrie: Any further discussion? Okay. Then I'll entertain a motion on the request for
Conditional Use Permit. Let's see. Do we have to do the -- we can do that. Conditional
Use Permit first?
Bird: Yes.
Meridian City Council Meeting
October 8, 2002
Page 24 o f 59
Corrie: Okay.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would move that we approve CUP 02-022, request for a Conditional Use Permit
for a three building office complex in an I-L zone for Treasure Valley Business Park by
Clark Development, southwest corner of North Eagle Road and East Fairview Avenue,
for the attorney to draw up the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision
of Order and to incorporate staff comments.
McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded. Is there any further discussion?
Hearing none, roll call vote, Mr. Berg.
Roll Call vote: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; DeWeerd, aye; Bird, aye.
Corrie: Okay.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Corrie: Item Number 14 is a request for Preliminary/Final Plat approval.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would move that we approve the PFP 02-002, the request for Preliminary/Final
Plat approval of three building lots on 2.66 acres in an I-L zone for Treasure Valley No.
2 Subdivision by Clark Development. On the southwest corner of North Eagle Road
and East Fairview Avenue and to strike Item Number 1 in the site specific comments
and to make note that the site date Preliminary Plat they got is dated July 9, 2002, the
Final Plat on record is July 19, 2002 and to --
Siddoway: Eighteen.
Bird: -- have the attorney draw up the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and
Decision of Order and incorporate all staff comments.
th
Siddoway: July 18.
th
Bird: July 18 I'm sorry. Yes July 18, 2002.
McCandless: Second.
Meridian City Council Meeting
October 8, 2002
Page 25 o f 59
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded. Any further discussion? Hearing
none, roll call vote, Mr. Berg.
Roll Call vote: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; DeWeerd, aye; Bird, aye.
Corrie: All ayes. Motion is carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Siddoway: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Yes.
Siddoway: Before moving on, I'd just like to ask a question. The issue of the sidewalk
is likely to come up at staff level on other adjacent lots that are only proposing
Certificate of Zoning Compliance and not coming to Council. Shall we take this
direction tonight as saying that adjacent properties, like the Certificate of Zoning
Compliance, we are now considering for Krispy Kreme and any others along that stretch
of Eagle Road, south of Fairview. There should not be a sidewalk required, at least
from Fairview to Elixir, at the railroad tracks?
Corrie: You're talking about the whole area there? I would think so, Steve.
Siddoway: It wouldn't make much sense for us to now require it on little pieces of
property as they come through for certificate of zoning compliance in that area. Thank
you.
Item 10. Continued Public Hearing from September 24, 2002: AZ 02-010
Request for Annexation and Zoning of 354.38 acres from RUT to R-4
Lochsa Falls Subdivision
zones for proposed by Farwest LLC and
Daniel Gibson – south of West Chinden Boulevard and west of North
Linder Road
Item 11. Continued Public Hearing from September 24, 2002: PP 02-009
Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 856 building lots and 59 other lots
Lochsa Falls
on 354.38 acres in a proposed R-4 zone for proposed
Subdivision
by Farwest LLC and Daniel Gibson -- south of West
Chinden Boulevard and west of North Linder Road:
Item 12. Continued Public Hearing from September 24, 2002: CUP 02-012
Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a PUD for 862 single family
dwellings, 171 multi-family dwellings, 11 office buildings, one commercial
building, one fire station lot, one city park and one private park for the
Lochsa Falls Subdivision
proposed by Farwest LLC and Daniel Gibson
– south of West Chinden Boulevard and west of North Linder Road:
Meridian City Council Meeting
October 8, 2002
Page 26 o f 59
Corrie: Thank you, Steve. The next items on the agenda are Items 10, 11 and 12. I
would -- I hate to put this off too much, because I know we have only got three people
to give us some testimony here on this, so if we can take just five minutes and then be
back at 25 after 8:00 and we will get right into it. Okay. Moved and second. Okay.
Thank you.
(Recess.)
Corrie: Okay. I will call the meeting back to order. Item Numbers 10, 11 and 12 are
Continued Public Hearings from September 24, 2002, one is on the annexation and
zoning of Lochsa Falls Subdivision, one is on the request for Preliminary Plat approval,
and the third is a request for a Conditional Use Permit. That Continued Public Hearing
is to hear three testimonies tonight and three only. We are going to hear from the
school, we will hear from ACHD, and then also from the North Meridian Area Plan. At
this time I will open the Public Hearing and, staff, do you need an entrance here?
Siddoway: You did a good job for my staff report. I would just say the same thing, so
nothing to add. Thank you.
Corrie: So if -- whoever would like to go first of the three, you certainly can start now.
Wardle: Mr. Mayor and Council --
Corrie: Is the testimony you're about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
the truth, so help you God?
Wardle: It is.
Corrie: Name and address, please.
Wardle: Mike Wardle, 50 Broadway Avenue in Boise. I appreciate the opportunity to
come and I want to note that if our relative silence concerning the process that we have
been involved with has caused either the Council or Farwest Development any difficulty
or problems, we sincerely apologize. Since our last stakeholder meeting, we have held
at least five task force sessions on land use issues. The first of those was to try and
determine what process improvements could be made in -- I guess as an incentive or
encouragement to development that would take on the character more of a traditional
neighbor design. We have also had two transportation workshops and I want to note
that Christie Richardson informed me this evening that the one missing piece that we
have been waiting for that I noted in my memo to the Mayor and Council, the cost data
update, they finally have a scope with Washington Group that will produce that within
the next several weeks and that's really a major piece of the puzzle. We also
subsequently met with the Fire Department, validated, and updated some information
that is incorporated in the packet that's provided to you this evening. I want to stress
that this is a working draft, it has three sections, the foundation report, somewhat
modified from that that you saw earlier this year, the second is the implementation
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October 8, 2002
Page 27 o f 59
issues and strategies, and the third component is an alternate code recommendation.
Now this has not been peer reviewed by any of the task force group that has been --
well, let me put it this way: I haven't received the comments from the peer review that
we have been going through, nor has it been presented yet to the development
community and it -- we are still waiting for that ACHD requested program information to
assist in updating construction costs and providing a scenario that will assist in
infrastructure proposals. I guess the only real comment that I wanted to make this
evening would be to take you to the second tab and it says section two, but if you look
at it, it's actually Section B, and the relates to land use. I want to just point out that back
to the comment that I made about the task force. After we met with the entire
stakeholder group, we gathered together with all of the consultants and the staff --
agency staff and said how can we facilitate or encourage through any kind of incentive
program -- what can we do to change the character of the process. We came to the
conclusion that the process has some fairly fixed requirements, annexation, zoning, and
after annexation and zoning, the platting process. The only thing that we could see that
would change the scenario would be if we provided an alternative through what is
deemed nationally an alternate code. That's what we have developed and is in actually
the third section, but let me just stress on the first page of this second section, there is a
couple of paragraphs that go from Page 1 to Page 2 that talk about incentives and
alternate code. What we found was the only incentive that can be provided to the
development community is to bypass one step in the process. If they were inclined to
take a more traditional nature in their design of a development, and that would be if they
followed the directions of this alternate code -- and I'm not certainly going to take you
through it tonight. It's basically a traditional neighborhood design concept, and we
started with information from national model codes that have been prepared by some of
the gurus of the new urbanism movement, we validated it through several that have
actually been adopted in some communities throughout the country and the format that
is contained in this evening is of that nature. What it still comes down to is that any
development proposal will have two options. They can present a Planned Development
through the normal procedures, using the normal zoning options of the city, and
propose their own standards or, if they wanted to do a very tightly controlled -- and it's a
standards-related ordinance proposal under T&D concept. If they complied with all
those standards, short blocks, totally connected street system, requirements for open
space, all of these things spelled out very precisely, then if the City Council eventually
approves the concept, you would enable a developer to bypass the Planned
Development step. It would be only if they complied with the very strict regulations in
that alternate code. Now we did some research nationally -- and I actually am serving
on a review committee with the Congress for the New Urbanism, for this very subject.
We found that there are a few communities -- and, in fact, the State of Wisconsin
mandated that all their cities of 12,500 population or greater, have this kind of a code in
place. It's interesting to note that they are still finding that the Planned Development
process is the one that people are using, because they are not required to use the
other. They are encouraged, that will still be the option that will be before any
development proposal that would come before the city under the scenario that we have
proposed. Again, this is a draft, it's been reviewed, and I need to bring our land use
task force group back together, which was composed of your staff, Steve Siddoway and
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October 8, 2002
Page 28 o f 59
Brad Hawkins-Clark's participated, along with Tricia Nelson of Ada County, Elaine Clegg
and John Barrett of Smart Growth, Becky Bowcutt and the Wardle group. I think what I
need to do, though, to encourage their comments is to provide another lunch and that
seems to be the motivation to get our work done. These two things of getting that
feedback to make certain that it does comply with the effort that we have put into those
five task force sessions. Then the information from ACHD that they indicate we should
have within a couple of weeks, we can draw this to a conclusion and that's our intent.
We have not been remiss or just been perhaps too quiet. Would be happy to answer
questions, but that's all that I really wanted to bring you up to date with.
Corrie: Any questions?
Wardle: Thank you very much.
Corrie: Thank you, David. School? Is the testimony you're about to give the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Bigham: It is.
Corrie: Name and address, please.
Bigham: Wendell Bigham, 911 Meridian Street, representing Joint School District No. 2.
I'm here tonight to answer any questions that Council may have, Mr. Mayor, regarding
our letter of approval for this subdivision. I believe I know what the question is, but I
would prefer to hear the question, so I don't go off in the wrong direction.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I think I'm the one that asked this particular question and I think the only concern,
Mr. Bigham, with regard to schools is that this development is supposed to be built
across from the new middle school that's proposed on Linder -- is that right? Wrong
section. Oh but -- okay. Well, the middle school wasn't the concern, but an elementary
school. The volume of growth for this particular project was so large and because there
was a park that was attached to it, it was indicated that the school district opted not to
look at school sites within this development and this particular property owner. The
concerns were where the schools are going to be or at least where the school district is
looking to put elementary schools in the particular area.
Bigham: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Nary, let me take you back approximately two years
ago. I was new to the district, the North Meridian Planning Area did not exist, and a
Comprehensive Land Acquisition Plan for the school district was in its infancy stages.
The first thing we started doing, quite frankly, was courting the engineering community
that represents developers' interest, making contact with the engineering community
saying what are your clients up to, where are they looking at building land. Again, we
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October 8, 2002
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remember two years ago. At that time we had a discussion with Farwest Development,
Marty Goldsmith, and his engineer, as to whether or not a school site was needed in
this geographic area and the answer to that was yes and to that end we started
planning for a school site in this area. Simultaneously, with this was the emergence of
the North Meridian Planning Area and the realization to us that this was quite a deal,
quite a large number of homes, and we quickly came to realize the probably in that 10
square miles we were looking at something approaching 11 elementary schools or
approximately one per square mile. In that effort, the elementary schools kind of
become geographically very sensitive. It's hard to move anything within a square mile
without getting it right across the street from another elementary school. As we started
firming up the sites with the ongoing discussion of Lochsa Falls, we had an elementary
site picked out and it was approximately in this area. As the development effort came
forward -- and please appreciate my candor -- the parks asterisk moved to that area, we
were told in no uncertain terms that that is where the city park is going and the Parks
Department would not be in support of the school site at that location. Based upon that
and knowing how the growth was going, we have -- I believe this is Bridgetower down in
here, somewhere right in here, we have an elementary school site platted as a lot block.
Keltic Paramount, I think that's this area right here. The site that you were referring to is
the high school site Number 6, I think, right there and probably somewhere in this
vicinity we have constructive negotiations with the developer for an elementary school in
that site. As we started looking at Lochsa Falls and saying we need to be in this
quadrant and this is kind of, if you will, on the westerly edge of a maybe the higher
density growth for the North Meridian Planning Area, we said, okay, we will back away
from our requirement for this elementary school site. Again, we got to go back now
about 18 months, we were really unsure of the density. Recently we have contacted
Mr. Hobbs who has sold his property and we approached Mr. Hobbs about acquiring a
portion of that land and he said he'd love to sell us land, but he has offers before him by
two developers to purchase that land. We asked him if he would relay our concerns to
those developers about a school site in that area. He said he would, he has done that,
and the land has changed hands and we have met once with the developer of that -- I'm
going to guess 40-acre parcel, 60-acre parcel. It is very silent in its discussions right
now. However, any development that comes forth in that area, in the absence of an
elementary school site right in this collective area right there, we will not be in support of
approving that development. They were aware of our desire prior to their purchase of
the property. Should we have a school in Lochsa Falls? Knowing today what we didn't
know or what I didn't know of wasn't aware of 18 months ago, the answer is yes. We
should have a school site in there. Are we really willing to change our mind and our
commitment to Farwest Development? No, we are not. They have worked with us in
good faith and if we had it all to do again things would be different. We probably would
not be backed down in the face of a park and a school trying to locate geographically on
the same piece of dirt. Hopefully with the logic that the schools are more geographically
sensitive at one per square mile than a park and also we would not back, away so
readily from the developer's concern that public service infrastructure is hitting his
development a little heavier than it to be. In other words, in hindsight, perhaps Lochsa
Falls could have and maybe should have ordered an elementary school site and a park
site. That is water under the bridge, we are prepared to stand by our commitment to no
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October 8, 2002
Page 30 o f 59
elementary is needed. In addition, this piece of property here we have given them a
heads up that we may need an elementary school site there. We need it on Ten Mile
Road and we need it preferably on the north of the half-mile line. It has to do with how
do you put a school in here if you have got one right there and one right there, we really
need to be up in this area to serve Chinden. We know consciously that there is
probably no advantage to putting any elementary schools north of Chinden between
Chinden and the river, since they are geographically isolated from walking. All of those
developments we are passing on, so that's really how things came to be the way they
are and I think with that I would stand for any questions that you may have.
Corrie: Any questions?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: I think that's clear for me.
Bigham: Thank you.
Corrie: ACHD. Is the testimony you're about to give the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Richardson: It is.
Corrie: Name and address for the record.
th
Richardson: Christie Richardson, 318 East 37 Street in Garden City, representing the
Ada County Highway District this evening. I thank you for inviting us tonight to give our
comments about Lochsa. I think you probably have specific questions, but let me give
you just a little synopsis of our involvement with the North Meridian Plan and kind of
where staff is headed in looking towards the future. I know one of our concerns is the
capacity of these roadways and that, yes, we are reaching capacities in this area. The
level of service recognized by COMPASS as acceptable on arterials is level of service
D. This threshold is 14,000 vehicle trips a day for two lane roadways, which all of these
surrounding roadways are, and one of the main concerns, as identified in the traffic
study for this development, particularly with the level of service, is the intersection. In
our last task force meeting with North Meridian participants, it was discussed that
perhaps rather than improving these roadways to their full three or five land width, that,
really, capacity enhance the intersections and that's what creates the gridlock. Perhaps
one of the more important factors that we will be looking at with North Meridian Plan is
how we can improve intersection right of way as development occurs. Simply adding a
turn lane can increase capacity at an intersection immensely at not a great expense.
One of the things we will probably start doing as the plan takes place is identifying
intersections by level of importance based on how development is occurring to look at
the need to widen intersections, turn lanes, stop movement and then eventually
signalization. I anticipate that that's where we are headed with the roadways in the
North Meridian Area before we look at adding pavement to improve the capacity for
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October 8, 2002
Page 31 o f 59
threshold of the roadway. I just want to give you that piece of information and if you
have any specific questions I would be happy to answer what I can.
Corrie: Any questions?
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: So will those be part of the conditions of approval of these plats? Is that
how you're going to try and in incorporate those improvements?
Richardson: Mr. Mayor, Councilwoman de Weerd, at the present time those aren't --
because the Commission has already approved several of these plats, we can't go back
and put those conditions on those plats. If some funding mechanism is established, that
might be one way that those improvements could be made. The other way is that with
our Impact Fee Ordinance being updated and the Capital Improvement Plan being
updated, it's possible that these intersection improvements would be included in both
the Capital Improvement Plan and the calculation of impact fees. Therefore, as
development occurred we could use the impact fee offset agreements to make these
roadway improvements.
De Weerd: So how would we be assured that these intersection improvements would
be made as these subdivisions come on line?
Richardson: Mr. Mayor, Councilwoman de Weerd, we have actually started, as you're
familiar with our five-year work program, we have put in the Planned Development
portion of the five-year work program all of these roadways in the North Meridian Plan,
which is something new that we haven't done before. We are trying that in anticipation
of these needs coming in the very near future. We will say ACHD, in connection with
the North Meridian Plan, has started to determine priorities and then either through
impact fees and through agreements specifically with development -- developers as
each phase of the plats come in, I think you will see cooperation between the agency
and the developers.
De Weerd: And are you developing some kind of language to include in the North
Meridian Plan that is going to reflected some of these strategies?
Richardson: Mr. Mayor, Councilwoman de Weerd, we haven't at ACHD drafted any
language to that sort. As I mentioned, I think that was just kind of the direction of our
previous conversations with the task force.
Corrie: Any other questions? Okay. Thank you.
Wardle: Mr. Mayor, Mike Wardle, again, for the record. Just to add onto to what
Christie has said and with regard to your specific questions. Council Member de
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October 8, 2002
Page 32 o f 59
Weerd, the strategies to be developed through this process are, first, a concept
implementation schedule as the general guide for north Meridian transportation
improvements. The second is a Capital Improvements Plan for North Meridian arterial
reconstruction and system improvements based on development patterns and the
sewer service areas, which, frankly, are hand and glove. The third is a Phasing Plan
that will focus on intersection improvements and right of way preservation first, then on
lane expansion. Then finally a cash flow plan for the phase improvements and our
analysis initially -- and it's, again, based on the new scope of work that ACHD has
secured from Washington Group on what the projected costs are. We think that the
challenge is going to essentially be a cash flow question and not a lack of resources to
do this. The key, as Mrs. Richardson just pointed out, probably relates to the
intersections, because that's -- literally you can carry all of the traffic, but if you bottle
them up and can't get them through the intersections, then your whole system goes
down. We have a plan and a strategy that we are moving forward with. We are waiting
for some dollar figures so that we can plug these numbers in and come up with a
program that we think will take us to that step. I appreciate the opportunity just to clarify
that further.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Corrie: Be anxious to see that. Does Council have any other questions? Okay. Then I
will entertain a motion to close the Public Hearing -- continued Public Hearings on 10,
11, and 12.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Are we going to allow the applicant to reply to these?
Corrie: The applicant? Oh, I'm sorry. I don't know. Becky was behind me in the
football game and she was yelling for Hawaii and -- I don't know. Becky.
Bowcutt: Becky Bowcutt. 1100 East Valli-Hi, Eagle.
Corrie: Is the testimony you're about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
the truth, so help you God?
Bowcutt: Yes, it is.
Corrie: Thank you.
Bowcutt: And I did not cheer for Hawaii, I cheered for BSU.
Corrie: I know you did.
Meridian City Council Meeting
October 8, 2002
Page 33 o f 59
Bowcutt: I'm an alumni. I will be very brief. The question has come up as far as
transportation. I'd like to just point out that in ACHD's staff report that was adopted by
the Commission, they very clearly stated that this development shall be subject to any
extraordinary impact fees or LID or any funding source established by the district to
improve the surrounding roadways or shall be subject to development proportionate
share of surrounding roadway improvements established by the applicant's traffic
impact study. The past projects that I have done out there, I think that the Council was
very clear, we want to see the development community step up, and we, I believe, are
making in-roads to that. On the Bridgetower Crossing project, for example, they have
taken Ten Mile off the overlay list from the Creason Lateral up to McMillan Road. I got a
no multiple times as far as getting it back on that overlay. Finally we came up with an
idea that when we constructed our center turn lane, at that time our paving company
would come in and also do an overlay. One, it saves them time, two, it made for a very
nice roadway that was completely going -- cracking and just totally debilitated. Another
example, Cedar Springs, Sundance Subdivision, both have trust funded for 30,000
dollars for a signal at Meridian Road and Ustick where the new regional park is. They
could have probably -- based on the policy plan, they could have probably protested
those -- that implementation of those requirements and they did not. I think like I told
some of the Council Members before, sometimes all they need to do is ask. The
development community is always willing to step up and do what they can and this is
one project that has with the park site, with the fire station site, and a mile and a half of
collectors. We have got the mixed uses, multiple types of residential, so, therefore,
everything that has been coming out of that North Meridian Plan has been incorporated
into this project and I just don't think that we can do any better. The school site, that's --
you know, that is an issue. Wendell is very aggressive and I'm sure he will find a site in
that section. If not, we have an elementary directly across the street in the Bridgetower
project with frontage on McMillan, the high school will be across the street on Linder,
and I think this will be a well-served area. I still believe it will be one of the best-planned
areas in this whole corridor once you see the development take place. I'd just like to
mention before you make any motions, we did have some conditions that were going to
be revised. I think in my last memo, based on the findings the attorney prepared, I think
the only outstanding issue was the park impact fees reimbursement zone versus limiting
that reimbursement to the project itself. Other than that, I believe the staff and
ourselves are pretty much in agreement. If you have questions I will be glad to answer
them.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I guess, Becky, I had a question regarding the park impact fee reimbursement.
My understanding on these other ones that we have done, like the Bear Creek, you
have limited to the development itself and not to an area beyond the development. Do
you know?
Bowcutt: Yes, sir. That is my understanding.
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October 8, 2002
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Nary: Okay. Why would this be different then?
Bowcutt: When we were coming up with this concept, it was discussed as far as in
general terms in the new parks plan that there were some vague provisions that would
allow for some reimbursement beyond one's boundaries. The question arose in order to
provide incentive to a developer -- most of the time what that -- those impacts fees from
your own project do not cover the cost of the land, not taking into account any other joint
improvements that one may make. Therefore, in our discussion with Tom, who I know
is not here, we had talked about it, but a decision had never been made and then at the
tail end, as we started going through this hearing process. Tom wanted it restricted to
the project. We did go before the Parks Commission, and they did agree that it should
be restricted to the project. We are looking at it that this is a community park serving a
larger area than just this project. If this were a neighborhood park I wouldn't even ask
for reimbursement, because I think that would be serving the subject site. This
particular project has its own 6.2-acre private park with -- it's going to have multiple
amenities, play equipment, and so forth to provide recreation for these residents. The
park is beneficial to this development, don't get me wrong but we are just trying to be
creative and I think that's what the North Meridian Plan is, public-private partnership,
getting these development communities to take some big steps here.
Nary: Thank you.
Bowcutt: Thank you.
Corrie: Staff have any comments?
Siddoway: Not at this time. The only other -- I guess the only other thing I would point
out is that I guess there was a lot of discussion or presentation wise last time about Mr.
Moss's letter, some requests that he made, so I just want to make sure that was
considered in your motion tonight.
Corrie: Any other discussion? Okay. Any discussion?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Okay. Then I will entertain a motion to close the Public Hearing on 10, 11 and
12.
McCandless: So moved, Mr. Mayor.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded to close the Continued Public
Hearing on Items Number 10, 11, and 12. Any further discussion? All those in favor of
the motion say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
Meridian City Council Meeting
October 8, 2002
Page 35 o f 59
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Corrie: Discussion? Council have any discussion on that -- the zone for the park
impact fees or keep it to the area of the subdivision?
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I guess I'll comment on a couple of things. I do appreciate Ms. Bowcutt in the
development wanting to try to create some different perspectives in looking at these
parks. I guess my only concern is that we have a regional park at Bear Creek we did
limit it to the development itself. We don't really have standards at this time to apply
that and sometimes it sounds like a broken record to us, we don't have anything to
apply, so we can't do it. I have a hard time justifying changing that previous standard of
applying it only to the development when we don't have any other standards to grant
this expansion as to how big an impact this is. I agree it's an excellent idea and it's an
excellent community park that's going to be developed here, I just have a hard time
engaging this zone perspective when we really don't have any way to apply that fairly to
the other types of development parks that may come along. I appreciated the
information received tonight. I guess for my satisfaction they have answered the
questions. I was the one concerned about the elementary school and I guess I'm a little
bit concerned, but I guess I agree with Ms. Bowcutt, I know Mr. Bigham is pretty
aggressive in getting these done and it sounds to me like they are pretty involved in
getting these accomplished. I don't anticipate that they are going to have a concern in
getting an elementary school to service this area at the time it is needed, so I think that
concern of mine isn't there anymore. I'm certainly willing to listen to what everyone else
says on the park zone issue.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I know our Impact committee should really be the one to take this up,
because it should -- we should start looking at it in terms of fairness. This -- the
developer has dedicated a 25-acre park and has donated five acres of that. I think that
needs to be acknowledged. It almost comes out -- if you look at the collection of the
impact fees, the amount of lots and multi-family, it almost comes out as a wash anyway,
especially if the impact committee does come back with a recommendation to increase
the impact fees, as they are anticipating. I don't see that this districting that this is going
to really impact it or it's -- actually, we are going to be collecting more than what we are
buying it from -- that's what we have been doing over here is trying to calculate the cost.
I don't have an issue with looking at districting and setting a precedent, because I don't
want to go into this penalizing developers who try to be proactive and a part of the
solution of finding our parks solution and working in partnering with the city. That's one
thing that is hard to do as part of this condition to set up a district, because, like you
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October 8, 2002
Page 36 o f 59
said, it's never been done and I don't how we could do it, but if there is a chance Mr.
Attorney can suggest some wording for that, it would certainly be appreciated. The
school, I think that Wendell did address our concerns and as the application comes
before us, we need to just be sure that that school site is in one of those developments
and just make the message out there that that will be expected. If anyone knows who
purchased that property, to please relay the message for us. As far as -- I think ACHD
has really addressed my traffic concerns and how we are going to be more proactive
about addressing the impact in the North Meridian Planning Area. It makes a lot of
sense, I do appreciate them taking all the special time, and planning to really address
these concerns, so maybe we can be ahead of the curve in this part of our town, rather
than behind it, like we have been in all other areas of our city. With that said, I think
everything that we asked the applicant to bring back and address has, in my opinion,
been answered and I appreciate their time and effort.
Siddoway: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Steve.
Siddoway: Mr. Mayor is there -- is the Impact Fee Committee currently working on
language for districting policies or are they just looking at the level of impact fee itself?
De Weerd: I would have to defer that to the attorney or our Park Liaison Mr. Bird.
Bird: Steve, I can't answer that. Bill will have to.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, the Park Impact Fee Committee for the
public, consists of city staff, one person from the building community, and one person
from the development community. We have had -- there is an engineer in private
practice on the committee, there is also an accountant on the committee. It's not just
staff and developers, but the committee has been looking at the park impact fees. I
think shortly will be proposing -- and there will have to be a hearing on these -- an
increase in the park impact fees and those fees will likely be structured in two
segments. One fee for neighborhood parks and for contribution for neighborhood parks
and one for community parks and the anticipation is that at some point when the level of
neighborhood park land gets to where it needs to be, that part of the neighborhood park
fee impact fee goes away. As far as policy issues like zones, I think that's one of the
things that the park impact fees committee is going to have to look at in terms of long
term as to whether there are zones for these park impact fees. There has not been in
the past -- and the former Parks Director's preference was that there not be, so that
you're not tied down if you happen to have growth in one particular area of town.
Maybe you have a need to develop some park land that you have already acquired or
maybe have need to acquire park land and, you know, it is a real good deal right now
and you can't -- you know, they become separate funds that you cannot go into. That's
a bigger policy issue that that committee and the Parks Department, Parks Commission,
is going to have to recommend to this body at some point. I don't think they are there
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October 8, 2002
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yet. They are not close to it. They are just working primarily on the actual fees
themselves.
Siddoway: Mr. Mayor, where my thoughts were going was perhaps there could be
some direction from Council to either the Parks Commission themselves or to the
Impact Fee Committee to work up some districting policies for these parks and impact
fees -- usually they are considered service areas for those parks and terms for those.
Then standard practice has been that the fees for these parks are basically just tied to
the development themselves as far as reimbursement and that, that if it be approved
tonight with that as the standard, so it would have to be as these policies are developed,
allow them to apply for that districting once those policies are in place. That's down the
road. It could be a few phases into this project, but at least allow the door open once
the city has some policies for that districting to allow them to at least apply for that.
Corrie: Steve, I was on the original Impact Fee Committee back in '92 and we had
discussed this a little bit. At that time didn't have the growth issue at that point and we
thought that we would probably be attacking this sometime in the later future and now is
the later future. I do agree that Mrs. Bowcutt has a good idea and we need to study that
now and find out how we can do that and maybe a zoning area would be appropriate
now for us. I don't think we are there yet. Okay. Any other discussion?
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I just had one more comment before I get off this horse, but the city and school
district in the past -- and I know currently -- I guess this is more for the record than
anything else. The school district and the city in the past have had some friction in
trying to get some of these issues resolved on schools and parks and it appears they
have resolved this issue. What's happened is they have resolved it by saying it's one or
the other you can't have both. I guess in the future we need to revisit that, that that
doesn't benefit the public, they shouldn't have to decide between whether to have a
park or have a school. We should be able to have both. We should be able to find a
way to have both or to work with people to have both and I think that's another issue for
a different day. I think in the future we have to make sure that when we are looking at
things such as this, that they are so large and do meet all the criteria that we were
looking for and is a tremendously positive thing for the city, that we don't have to
continue it just so the school district can come and tell us that we decided to back off,
because the city wants a park there. I think we need a park there and I think we need a
school there. It sounds like it's going to happen, but we really need to revisit that policy
of dealing with those issues and that it doesn't have to be one or the other.
De Weerd: It was an unwritten policy, by the way.
Nary: I agree, but the policy is -- we knew about it, we also concurred with it, we
allowed that to be the way it was.
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October 8, 2002
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Bird: You're right.
Nary: We didn't do anything different than allow that to be. We knew that is what it was
doing.
Corrie: Okay. That being said, any other -- okay. Let's take it item -- I think we need to
do the request for annexation and zoning first on 354.38 acres from an RUT to an R-4
zone for proposed Lochsa Falls Subdivision. I will entertain a motion on that request for
annexation and zoning.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would move that we approve AZ 02-010, request for annexation and zoning of
354.38 acres from RUT to R-4 zones for proposed Lochsa Falls Subdivision by Farwest,
LLC, and Daniel Gibson, south of West Chinden Boulevard and west of North Linder
Road and for the attorney to draw up the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and
Decision of Order and to incorporate staff comments and recommendations.
McCandless: Second
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded for approval. Any further
discussion?
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: The applicant responded to a number of the conditions. Are we concurring
-- Steve, do you have that letter?
Bird: Is that on the annexation? I didn't think they were on the annexation. I would
include them also, but I didn't think it was on the annexation and zoning.
Corrie: Steve, wasn't that on the comments on the Preliminary Plat? I guess I could
ask Becky, but --
Siddoway: Yes. In as much as I wasn't there -- I was just handed a copy of it by Becky.
It says here through the annexation and zoning comments from the Planning and
Zoning and Public Works staff, they are in agreement and would comply with all six
there. They did have some requested modifications to the Ada County Highway District
and the Meridian Fire Department and the parks and recreation comments for the
annexation and zoning. Would you like a copy of this to reference?
Bird: I would.
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October 8, 2002
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De Weerd: That's the problem about going paperless.
Bird: Mr. Mayor, I would -- my motion would incorporate recommendations on B, the
Ada County Highway District recommendations on the deal. The D recommendation of
the Meridian Parks and Recreation Department, I -- I have a problem with the zones
until we get our -- until we get our new fees and stuff in. I hate to say if we stayed with
zones there are probably some parks that won't get developed and others will have
money left over at certain times of the years, as one area develops, in that zone you will
have more. In my motion I would -- the applicant's views on B and C, which is the
recommendation of the Ada County Highway District, to modify, and the
recommendations of the Meridian Fire Department. On D, like I said, I certainly don't
want to hold any project up, but I would not be in favor of that right now until we get our
fee thing passed and our ordinance -- our new impact thing passed. I think the zoning
is one thing that that committee is working on stuff and I wouldn't want to put an
application in a zone when they don't -- the public doesn’t want to pass on it.
McCandless: Second agrees.
Corrie: So you're including the application of B and C, but not D?
Bird: The applicant's -- on the planning and zoning -- or the annexation.
Corrie: Okay.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: Just for discussion, Keith, if we can put pencil to paper and figure out what
the impact fees would be collected and if it falls short of the amount for that 20 acres,
then the city would reimburse or that's just out of pocket by the developer?
Bird: Well, I think the agreement was written up that the city -- they would be
reimbursed for their 20.51 acres that they are selling us. They are donating five acres
at a cost of 30,000 an acre. We are buying 20.51 at 30,000, which is 600 and some
thousand. At the current impact fees it's 862 single families and the 171 multi and 11
office buildings and all that, you're going to -- with the current one you will probably draw
right around 560, 70,000. If they go up, you're going to donate that part you're going to
get that much more back. I don't see -- I don't agree with their math here. They could
be right and I could be wrong, but I don't feel that -- I don't feel right now that I want to
zone our impact fees for subdivisions until the committee with the impact fees comes
back and tells us that that's right and then they are not saying we can't revisit this, but
I'm sure this development won't be done by that time. I hope not.
Corrie: Further discussion?
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October 8, 2002
Page 40 o f 59
Nary: Could we repeat what the motion is?
Corrie: No, but I can have the stenographer read it back. What we are voting on here
is the approval of Lochsa Falls Subdivision on the request for annexation and zoning
and have the attorney draw up the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law with staff
comments and all including the applicant's change on the B and C and not on D.
Bird: That's right.
Corrie: Okay. Okay. Mr. Berg, would you give us roll call vote, please.
Roll Call vote: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; DeWeerd, aye; Bird, aye.
Corrie: All ayes motion is approved.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Corrie: Now the request for Preliminary Plat approval on Lochsa Falls.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we approved the Preliminary Plat approval of 856 building lots and 59
other lots on 354.38 acres in a proposed R-4 zone for the proposed Lochsa Falls
Subdivision by Farwest, LLC, and Daniel Gibson. South of West Chinden Boulevard
and west of North Linder Road, to incorporate the staff and applicant's remarks and for
the attorney to draw up the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision of
Order.
McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded. Any further discussion? Hearing
none, roll call vote, Mr. Berg.
Roll Call vote: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; DeWeerd, aye; Bird, aye.
Corrie: Okay. All ayes. Motion approved.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Corrie: And Number 12, the CUP, request for a Conditional Use Permit for a PUD for
862 single family dwellings, 171 multi-family dwellings and 11 office buildings and one
commercial building, one fire station, and one city park and one private park.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
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October 8, 2002
Page 41 o f 59
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we approve CUP 02-012, request for the Conditional Use Permit for a
PUD for 862 single-family dwellings, 171 multi-family dwellings, 11 office buildings, one
commercial building, one fire station lot, one city park, and one private park for the
proposed Lochsa Falls Subdivision by Farwest, LLC, and Daniel Gibson. South of West
Chinden Boulevard and west of North Linder Road and to include the comments of staff
and applicant, for the attorney to draw up Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and
Decision of Order.
McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Okay. You have heard the motion of approval with the staff comments,
applicant, and for the attorney to draw up the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law
and Decision of Order. Further discussion?
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Just a question on Mr. Moss's request. Is that part of that --
Bird: They were part of the PUD.
Nary: PUD?
Bird: Yes.
Nary: And I guess there was a couple of them that the developer had disagreed with,
like maybe the mailbox and things like that. Is that included?
Bird: That's included.
Nary: Okay. Thank you.
Corrie: Any other discussion? Roll call vote, Mr. Berg.
Roll Call vote: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; DeWeerd, aye; Bird, aye.
Corrie: All ayes. Motion as stated is approved.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Item 15. Discussion concerning Waltman Lane / Meridian Road / Central Drive
/ Main Street Intersection Design:
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October 8, 2002
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Corrie: The last item on the agenda is discussion concerning Waltman Lane, Meridian
Road, Central Drive, and Main Street intersection design. I want to emphasize this is
not a Public Hearing. However, if the Council wishes to ask any questions they can at
this point. Council, discussion?
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I guess I would like to -- I don't know, Steve, if you're familiar enough about
it to give us some kind of introduction, but -- he indicates he is. Then maybe the
property owners have a chance. I would imagine the people who are sitting out there
are here for a reason and I'd like to hear from them, personally, so -- if Council and
Mayor would like to --
Corrie: Let's start with you, Steve, and then we will proceed as we go.
Siddoway: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I have prepared a few slides for you in
anticipation of this. There is a vicinity on the screen right now. The -- let me grab a
pointer. The Waltman Lane intersection is right here. The issue is related to how to get
adequate access for that road and development around it. This is the I-84 on-ramp, off-
ramp interchange, Main Street, Meridian Road, and Franklin is up here. Old Town then
continues to the north. There is currently a conceptually approved design for this area
that's been -- being worked on by ACHD, that includes an extension of Corporate Drive
around to Waltman this way and access -- an offset access to Waltman off of Meridian
Road here. That access would not allow for a left turn access into it, it would be a right
turn in only. I did meet with Mr. Canfield this morning, got a brief overview of their
project and proposal. They would propose a connection straight from Waltman Lane to
this intersection, with this being Main Street going off this way, this is Meridian Road,
and this is the connection into Corporate Park on Central Drive. Their proposal, in order
to make this function, would be to have this Main Street and Meridian Road function as
a one-way couplet with Main Street going north, Meridian Road going south. I would
also point out that this area is in the urban renewal area and within the plan area that
was a motion for adoption earlier. Mr. Canfield is scheduled to speak with the MDC
board in the morning at 7:30 A.M. to give the same presentation to that board. With that
introduction, I guess I'll stand for any questions.
Corrie: Any questions for Steve?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: One of the things that when we had our discussion with ACHD Commissioners
and their employees Monday was that the intersection, you understand, was about 95
percent done. Also, if we start moving one-way traffic to Fairview and -- excuse me -- to
Franklin at the intersection of Franklin and Main and Franklin and Meridian Road, we
might be delaying that whole project. I think that the Council was -- I believe that they
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October 8, 2002
Page 43 o f 59
didn't want to close that up now, because we are so far along and we have got so many
things that need to be done. Terry, I would like have -- with the Council's permission, I
would like to have Terry come up and explain just exactly what we did and how we
explained that intersection at Franklin and Main and the one way and that I think it's
going to cause, personally, a lot of problems with downtown, but, Terry, if you would
kind of give us a rundown like you did Monday.
Smith: Mr. Mayor and Council Members, I'll try to give you the benefit of my thinking on
it and I have done a few things since in thinking about what -- the impacts of the project
and the discussion was to convert the Main and Meridian to a couplet from Franklin
south to where they converge there at Meridian, Main, Central, Waltman intersection.
Some of the impacts and some of the concerns that we relayed was what would happen
up at Franklin if we do things right now. We do need to do some acquisition of right of
way at that intersection and they may not be necessary or they may need to be more, if
we do a couplet, and also over at Meridian and Franklin. I expressed some concerns
that there may be some modifications there in terms of adding a left turn lane perhaps.
In terms of the impact -- and that's still the same. We have the same concerns that we
would need to analyze these to see what impacts -- and it is a concern, because we are
doing this -- to design this project we are requiring right of way and making negotiations
trying to not impact that service station as much as we can and get a little more right of
way to the south to do that. We really need to know, otherwise, we have to maybe cut
that project off right there and leave this to operate like it does today, if we were to meet
our 2004 deadline for that project. We also had this end for 2004 -- the main need for
this is to facilitate development down here. I mean this could operate longer. Franklin
is a bigger term need for our perspective of moving traffic. Now we have the signal
here, I think we have a little better movement potential in this area, except for getting in
and out of Waltman Lane. Back to this. I did mention the impact there. As far as what
we do with traffic, having a one way this far would encourage more traffic northbound up
in the Old Town and southbound over here on Meridian Road. You would have --
people don't -- if they are going out to say north of Cherry and they are already on Main,
they'd like to just stay on and not make a couple of turns early, just kind of a natural
inclination. You would have more northbound traffic here, more southbound traffic here.
Of course, the northbound is more of a concern in the afternoon on Main Street,
afternoon peak traffic. I did look at this intersection, running the numbers out, 35,000
trips a day -- and I don't have anything scientific, but you figure 20,000 of those to the
freeway, 15,000 to the north up this direction up through say Corporate, we were
successful enough to get 15,000 of them up here and only 20,000, I think that's
probably optimistic, we'd only get 20,000 here. Using an eight percent peak hour factor,
I estimate you would have 50 percent more traffic there than we have here at build out
of that. It does add substantial amount of traffic in this intersection to handle there. I
think without margin for double left turn northbound can handle only 600 cars an hour,
which is about what you have at Meridian now. You might have probably 600 now. You
need two left turn lanes right now we just don't have it, nor a road to receive it. There is
concerns there, concerns up here with regard to how that would operate and make it
operating, maybe needing four lanes coming out here, possibly, as you get down here
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October 8, 2002
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to the end. That's just sketch level Mr. Splitz may have more comments. He's looked at
a little bit more and though it a little bit more as well, but --
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: How does that intersection compare to the intersection over on Eagle and
Magic View?
Smith: Eagle and Magic View?
De Weerd: How many trips are day is anticipated and it's -- if you develop that area --
and I know this is kind of a question out of the blue that you haven't been able to
prepare for, but what is the approximate number of trips that need to come out of that
Magic View area at that traffic -- that signalized area and how it compares to that?
Smith: The same order of magnitude, Mr. Mayor, Councilwoman de Weerd. It's the
same order of magnitude. I can't remember, it was up in like the 20,000 range or
something like that in terms of the number I was predicting here, if we had this split. At
that location of Magic View there is a right turn in and out there -- well, right now it's full
access, right turn by sign, and that takes some pressure off. They have to double back
and come back to the main intersection to the north where the signal is to go north and
that kind of helps split it there. The one problem that came up last time we talked about,
what about people coming off the freeway, want to make that left turn, the killer on
Eagle Road is you have to kind of come around in your own lane and then you have to
cut straight across. Here it's more -- a little more signal controlled, I believe, rather than
having your own lane. You basically have to signal control your right turns if you're
going to want them to make left turns very close, otherwise, if they are coming around in
their own lane trying to merge and then they want to cut across, that doesn't work. You
really have to signal control your turns and it does cause you to lose some capacity. I
don't know if I answered that. It was about the same order of magnitude, maybe a little
bit lower.
De Weerd: This would be a little lower than --
Smith: I think this would be. Mr. Splitz might even remember the number. I don't know.
He mentioned that that was 110 acres. This is 90 acres here. Actually, this is less. It
would depend on the intensity of it.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I believe, Mr. Smith, that we had committed to the Highway District yesterday that
our discussion tonight would be on whether or not to hold off on any further acquisition
on the right of way for Franklin until we had studied this some more. Is that right?
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October 8, 2002
Page 45 o f 59
Smith: Yes.
Nary: That's all that -- we are talking about a two-part decision that we were going to
discuss tonight and I guess my question for you, then, is, is it that fatal? I mean can we
revisit this issue of Waltman Lane -- I think you got a commitment -- the developer did
make a commitment to the Highway District Commissioners that within reason they
would help pay for redesign of the Waltman Lane Intersection, but are they that tied
together? Do we have to -- if we are going to reconsider redesigning Waltman Lane, do
we have to them reconsider -- do we have to consider holding off on Franklin or can we
just say keep going with Franklin. We will -- if they want Waltman Lane to work, we will
just have to make it work without changing what the Franklin Road reconstruction
project is going to be. Can we do that?
Smith: You're talking about the Waltman Lane Plan that -- like this that is proposed
that's on the design board right now?
Nary: Well, that or something like it. I mean if they would like us to provide -- or they
want to look at redesigning that intersection from this, which was proposed, and is
almost completed, to that or something like that -- I mean it doesn't have to be exactly
that, but something like that. I mean can't we allow that -- because I heard you say that
the Waltman Lane reconstruction can be pushed back, but we just don't need to affect
the Franklin one. I guess that's where I'm coming from and is that -- will that just not
work? Can we do one without the other?
Smith: I think you -- I don't think you want to allow this without the couplet. I think you
could -- from our perspective, you could delay the -- this intersection project, but it would
essentially, in a sense, be putting this on hold, because the only control we would have
would be to just put a median in there and make that road come right here. Right turn in
and out, which would make it more difficult getting in there. I think -- then they would
still have to do what they will ultimately have to do, it just would be much harder to get
out, than it will be when the road is like this. It would limit your potential to develop this,
I guess. From the developer's standpoint, they want the attractiveness of access to be
up front, so that you can attract the kind, of development, that they feel has that
potential, and I can understand their perspective on that and appreciate that.
Nary: But I guess what I'm asking is does it all have to be tied to Franklin? I mean I
recognize that the concept of bringing together today is tied to Franklin and I guess
what I'm looking at is -- my perspective is, is that if we wanted to say we don't want to
change Franklin Road, we have made a pretty strong commitment to that project getting
accomplished. If we were to say to the developers on Waltman Lane, we will certainly
look at any other proposal or idea you want to bring forward, but we are not going to
change Franklin, you will have to figure out a way to make either what's proposed work
or something else work. We don't want to put Franklin off another year or two or more.
Does that work?
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October 8, 2002
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Smith: Well, let me tell you bluntly, what's at stake, I guess, Mr. Mayor and Councilman
Nary. In terms of right of way, we need to go to the south there and right back to what
is the visitor's center or the chamber's building, about where they are at and take a slice
there and a slice over here to keep from having to really damage that service station, to
have impacts on there, the way that they operate there. We might not need that if we
went to a couplet. We might be able -- because you wouldn't have that left turn
anymore, we would have a left turn here. We could maybe bring that traffic back
without doing that, so I see we might -- you know, in the short run. The longer run it
might take more right of way, you know, 10 years from now to make these two operate,
but in the short run we could be buying something that isn't needed in the short run and
isn't enough in the long run. It's just a risk of public tax dollars and impact to these
properties that is a risk.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Terry, also Monday, yesterday afternoon, as I recall, the planning is about -- what
was it, 95 percent done on the Waltman Lane deal and we have already got, if I recall,
155,000 or something like that, invested in it. By doing all the changes we are throwing
everything behind -- like Councilman Nary said, we don't want to touch Franklin Road. I
don't want to touch Waltman either. I mean we have been -- Waltman has been being
thrown out at us since 1993 that I can recall and I thought we had finally bought off on a
plan that would work. I guess we haven't. I don't want to see -- I don't want to see
Franklin go down. I know the developer said Monday that he would put some money
up, but I don't know how deep his pocket is if it costs another 150 to redesign it -- on this
if we have got 160 -- I guess it's this design shown, Terry? Is this basically --
Smith: Well, it's been designed all the way from here on. Yes. A lot of this has been
done and been built, so, you know, there is not as much of a redesign now. A lot of our
concern is getting a decision up here at Franklin that's correct. Yes, that -- you would
be redesigning that, regardless, and probably need this parcel. The right of way
acquisition is not as key a thing on here, because you have I believe one parcel. We
are working it out with the Redlins as to how things come out with them here tonight, I
believe, but as far as that acquisition here, it's pretty much cut and dried. Up here, we
had about three that we were touching just at the corner of Franklin that I think are really
in question. That's a total buy out, so that isn't a difficult one to do, it's just arriving at
the price.
Bird: Well, the couplet, Terry, I thought -- as we discussed last week at the Pre-Council,
that it's going to -- Meridian Road basically, from whether it's Corporate or Meridian -- or
Franklin Road, have to be one way going south; am I not right? If you build their plan
up there it shows Main Street being two ways.
Smith: Their plan has Main Street one-way and Meridian one way. Just a couplet from
here on north.
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October 8, 2002
Page 47 o f 59
Bird: Show theirs again.
Smith: Yes. That should have been out of there.
Siddoway: Mr. Bird?
Bird: Yes.
Siddoway: Mr. Mayor, Mr. Bird, the arrows here are meant to depict the scenario that is
approved here and the addition of their redesigned of Waltman Lane. You will see that
the Meridian Road still has a left turn onto -- to continue down Meridian Road north.
That's based on that scenario. Do you have another one? Mr. Splitz has a --
Bird: I thought we had it, too.
Smith: Mayor and Councilman Bird, Mr. Splitz has modified this. This shows the
concept, Main northbound, Meridian southbound. This is two way. These are two ways
and these are two ways. I think modified -- that's what they are really proposing and
that's what it would take to work. This couldn't be a southbound movement here and
this couldn't be a northbound here, you'd get too many movements in that intersection, I
think we all agree traffic here, that wouldn't work. You would need to make a couplet
like this. This acts as one road, this is the opposite road, and then these act as a cross
street.
Bird: Is Corporate far enough down to make -- to end your one way?
Smith: It is technically feasible. It would almost look like a -- you'd just about have to
make that possibly one way, so you would have almost a big traffic circle here. It would
really be a -- it might be technically feasible. People are going to come down here like
this and then be detoured around through two more signals -- at least one more extra
signal here and then get to here. It's going to seem like a really onerous thing to people
and won't make as much sense as this would, I guess, whether that would -- if there is
enough pavement on there to make of happen, that's a good question. We haven't run
through a real analysis of that.
Bird: I think the major player in this thing is getting closer down to Waltman. I think it
should be a priority to get down there, because you can bring a lot of people out,
regardless of what you got developed down there on Corporate. I really question if
Corporate is close to -- is far enough away to have -- without having a real traffic bottle
jam from the freeway down to there at rush hour, because rush hour is getting to be
every hour anymore. I hate to see us go to -- I'd hate to see us go to Franklin Road,
because you have got a major problem with Meridian and Franklin Road intersections.
You have got a major, major problem. You're going to turn two lanes to the north you
got to buy an office building there.
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Smith: Here you have to have -- I think Mr. Splitz has a diagram here that shows two
lanes over here on this side turning left and two lanes north, one right. It puts a little
more pressure on that northbound up here, because you have to merge those two
before you get to the railroad tracks. It's really an unconventional thing to run two lanes
here that have to split back here and make a left. What happens if something comes up
here and wants to make a left across this median, they forget it's all one way and they
turn right in front of someone. Here is Franklin showing the -- what I was just talking
about here with regard to the two there and if you have any breaks here, you have got
the potential of somebody forgets and they make their normal left turn and they get
creamed. You get a guy up here that thinks he can turn -- he's in the normal place for a
left, it really does throw a major violation of a driver's expectation to put them in the one-
way street with a median down the middle of it, because it's so different than anything
they have ever run into.
Bird: And you have got the corner over there on Meridian and Franklin that --
Smith: You have got this, too.
Bird: That's no problem. You got it wide enough there to try to turn right on that other --
Smith: In the short run that will work, one lane, but in the longer run that left turn I think
would --
Bird: You're asking to move a lot of traffic in one lane.
Smith: Because this traffic comes down, does that. This traffic coming over -- it used to
do this and this does that -- both of these are pretty light right now. I'm thinking that half
of this traffic is going to end up coming down here. They are going to come up and
cross at Cherry or Pine or one of the other streets and just come on down, rather than
do this. That will have its own natural pressure release when people decide they don't
like it, but --
Bird: Of course, between the railroad tracks south of Franklin, you have got some --
you have got some retail outlets there that draw some people, you got the video rental,
you got the rental equipment place, you got a drive-in, you got a pharmacy company,
you know, I think, Terry, you hit it on the head. I think there is going to be a real
problem of managing traffic getting it down and across, if we go that far, and I think --
myself, I think Corporate is too close to try to make it stop one way north and south at
Corporate, I think you'd have traffic jammed up onto the freeway. I don't know what the
solution is. I don't know want to delay Franklin and I don't want to delay Waltman, either
one.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
Meridian City Council Meeting
October 8, 2002
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De Weerd: I guess it still comes back to Mr. Nary's question, can you postpone a
decision, a delay for the two or four weeks on the Waltman Intersection to look at
something better or not, but -- and just continue with your Franklin right of way
acquisition. What the message, I guess, of Council is we don't want to see those
intersections disturbed or a proposal that would disturb those intersections as they are
currently designed, to see they what they come up with. I don't know. I did -- when I
was trying to figure out how traffic would flow on the intersection they are proposing, I
used my little highlighter, I know you looked at a lot of different options, one of those
was trying to straighten out Meridian to connect with Waltman into one intersection. Did
you consider a traffic circle and would there be enough room for a traffic circle?
Because that way you wouldn't have to do the one way, that you could --
Smith: We did look at a traffic circle with regard to Waltman and Meridian and there just
wasn't enough room to get that in between -- get it back far enough without taking out
the studio and being into the mini storage, basically. Moving it back far enough. A
traffic circle to try to bring these two together out in here, you would be basically out in
there to do it. You would be taking a donut or something out in there to get those. Now
as far as one giant one, we didn't look at that. The capacity of a single lane would be
exceeded, you would be talking about a double lane roundabout, which we don't have
one in this part of Idaho yet, so it would be a huge jump to go from a -- people not even
being familiar with them at all, to trying to drive a double lane and questionable capacity
on that would -- to get the capacity, it's such a key intersection to do it, so we have
concerns there. We really looked at some place -- this is a good place for one right
here, got a little more rights of way, definitely. Staff would love to see one in from there,
but that was just too much in terms of the volume of traffic.
De Weerd: They are starting to do it more in Oregon and they certainly doing a lot on
the east coast and they can move mass amounts of traffic and without making traffic
stop, which could help with getting off of the interstate. It was just an idea when I
started drawing this, it looked like something -- and I'm not an engineer, I just am an
artist.
Bird: I question that.
Smith: Mr. Mayor, Councilwoman de Weerd, we are very interested in that. I have
seen them in different states, Colorado and Nevada, and we are looking for a place to
get that started, because it's good technology, it's a good application. It doesn't matter if
you have a power shortage it works great. We don't have to go out and change the light
bulbs, too. We'd love to do that, it's just having the right one and we just feel this is just
too big, too much volume as a starter, for instance, even if it's marginal overall, the way
this is growing it's a key. It works great coming off interstates and ramps in many cases
and that, but I just don't think it's a good place.
Corrie: Any other questions of Terry? Okay. Thank you. I would like to have Dave
come up for just a minute, would you, Dave. I want to ask you a couple of three very
pointed questions and you may have to talk to your group there, but would you show the
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October 8, 2002
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-- Steve, that one that's 95 percent finished? Okay. Now, then, my question is if this is
done, would your development still go in that area? You would have to go up and come
around, rather than making a left turn this way. Maybe it's not a question you can
answer now, but --
Splitz: Well, I sort of can. We didn't really look at just one development. We have
looked at the build out of your Comp Plan. My client's project, I assume, would match
your comp plan, so I just looked at the bigger issue and I agreed with Mr. Little is that
we have the same kind of concern here is think that up to 30,000 -- whatever cars out of
there with that roadway there.
Corrie: So at that -- coming out to the east and making it so that they can come out of
there, would that help you at all?
Splitz: Yes, sir. If we had Corporate and Waltman as both pro-active intersections, we
could get the 30,000 cars out, I suspect. We haven't carried it to the same level of
analysis as ACHD has, because we are just in the scoping part, but I suspect that we
could get 30,000 cars out in a two, three-lane roadway.
Corrie: But you're still considering one way on Main?
Bird: I don't think Mr. Little and his staff or the Commission would approve the five
legged intersection without some major change to Corporate and Meridian, but a five
legged intersection I don't think would work very well with the build out of the land use,
as noted in the comp plan.
Corrie: I was thinking eventually you have got all that traffic on Main Street going north
and then all of that traffic on Meridian Road going south, we are talking about some
intersection problems at Franklin. Big ones.
Splitz: Well, yes and no, because the -- you know, the area of single-family housing is
commercial or office, a lot of those are link trips, you know, people who are making
more than one purpose. You may be generating 30,000 trips or 20, whatever it is, but
only half of them may be new trips to the system and the other half may be already
there and as several people have told ACHD in the past, the commercial trips don't add
traffic, housing adds traffic, it's just rediverts it. It may or may not cause the issue that
you're concerned with. I agree with Mr. Little that we to do more analysis, but if we
started it now and ACHD and the city proceed with their plans, we'd never know until
after it was built. That's why we were asking to redevelop this or re-plan this. If it also
helps you, the Waltman Lane access the way we drew it would not need anymore right
of way than the Waltman Lane access the way ACHD drew it. You could let ACHD
proceed with their right of way acquisition plan in that area and -- while the city and
ACHD and my client work towards resolving that, because that wouldn't hurt it. We also
have showed in that plan, wherever it went to, that we could fit the couplet lane use up
at Franklin Road in the existing roadway and not delay that process either. From my
perspective -- and you may have more issues, but my perspective is that since we can
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October 8, 2002
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fit in the Franklin Road right of way and we are not taking anymore right of way here,
you could probably let ACHD to proceed with their right of way acquisition while we
solve this problem. Speaking of the person in the government, myself, I can tell you
you're going to end up with an issue on how to develop that sometime down the road
anyway, because the Comp Plan can't use that roadway system. My perception. I don't
know if I have helped you make a decision, but --
Corrie: I think one of the decisions we have to make tonight is whether we want to
delay the Franklin Road project.
Splitz: And I don't think that you need to delay it in order to work this issue up, you just
need to delay the construction of the Waltman Lane issue now and we can work with
ACHD to try to figure out if any further changes need to occur.
Corrie: Council, any questions? Thank you.
Bird: I agree, I don't think we should hold up Franklin one bit and I think that we ought
to go on with the land acquisition. I think Mr. Splitz is right on that, there is -- I think
Terry was talking about the same thing. We got to get Franklin -- get the right of way
acquisition. I just thought of something that Gem Street, which is down by the bowling
alley, would think maybe that would be -- we wouldn't have to contend with the split of
Main Street, the split in the roadway, and I know you would have to widen it a little bit,
but to me I was just sitting there thinking. I think that might be the logical place to make
your -- stop your -- I think if you go out and measure, that's about a mile off the freeway
exit, which would give us -- we wouldn't get a real big stack of cars, I think. That way
we wouldn't have to worry about Franklin Road being redesigned.
Corrie: I can't help but think there is a solution to this somewhere. I'm still -- boy,
thinking we need to get out of this, but I still don't want to see Main Street one way north
-- there is just too many businesses around there, eventually, that is going to want both
sides of that street. Anyway, I think -- I think there is a solution. I don't know what it is
yet. The engineers can do that. I didn't go to school for that. I can give you a pill for
something, but I can't do the street. Okay. Council, have you had enough discussion
about what you want to do as far as Franklin Road that we are -- go ahead.
Engh: John Engh, 2000 Overland Road. We had a presentation for tonight and we are
glad we got to the traffic, because we would like to work on the Franklin objective. As
property owners and business owners in the community, we are not looking to delay
anything. In fact, we want to keep in the same track we heard from the district the other
day. We think that by putting Dave on it today to prepare the presentation that he
brought, we could continue to work on behalf of both the Waltman Lane folks, as well as
the community to use our best efforts to solve these issues. We'd like to ask you
specifically to hold off on a decision for at least 30 days on the Waltman Lane situation,
so we can continue to have Dave work on our behalf and present with Ada County to
get back with you and show you how our plan works. We are talking about -- certainly
as a priority not overlooking anything that's going to happen on Franklin, we know that's
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the major objective, but yet also you're talking about 90 acres next to the freeway that is
going to have one shot at an access situation to cure it and it's now. We want to make
sure that there is nothing that's not overturned and looked at on our behalf and also the
city, because this is our gateway. This is our one opportunity to make it -- to do it right.
Now we had talked a little bit about Eagle Road and what I call the Magic access over
there. If you look at where the Holiday Inn is positioned right up against the freeway,
you come off the freeway, you enter on Eagle Road going north, and you can see the
hotel. You get all the way over into the left lane and if you come at 9:00, 12:00 or 5:00,
you're not going to be able to cross that street. If you figure out that you have got to go
to the intersection, which is St. Luke's, then you make a left, a left, and a left to get back
to something that you can see right next to the freeway. We will be duplicating that on
the Meridian Road and Waltman. You would be going up to -- you would be going all
the way up to Corporate, you would be making a left, making another left, and coming
back into the project. You will be able to see it, but you will have to know that you have
to go almost a mile almost beyond it to get to it. Can we solve that? We can solve that
concurrently with moving forward with Franklin. I'm not a traffic expert, but when we
have the smart guys get on it and they come up within eight hours of a plan, I think
that's using our best efforts to show you guys that we are out there doing our jobs and
that's what we'd like to present to you guys tonight and that's to hold off on making a
decision on Meridian and Waltman for at least 30 days so we could study it and
continue on the present path.
Corrie: Okay. Let me -- Terry, let me ask you -- we just discussed this Monday about
these lanes, this Waltman Lane project. What would then curtail it -- we have got
development 95 percent done, if we stop it for a month, can we get people back onto it
quickly? I know -- realize what he -- John has a dilemma here, we do, and you do, but if
we delay it, this part, is that going to cost even more money? I know it will, but can you
get people back on it again? Maybe they'll go onto another project.
Smith: Mr. Mayor, I think we can get people back on it. They have been real
cooperative. I mean with regard to the Waltman thing. Franklin is of more concern to
us than Waltman.
Corrie: I would agree.
Smith: This is just one parcel. We could buy that now without a completed plan. In a
way, we could come up with almost any alternative to make that intersection that
doesn't take a major chunk of that, I think.
Corrie: Okay.
Smith: But the -- Mr. Mayor, Council, the points that have been brought up are good
points, what about here, what about here, what about this being a couplet? What about
up here, what about all the businesses affected, you're talking about a major public
involvement effort to bring something to roost on the plan. We spent quit a bit of time
last time and even though we are staying south of Franklin and we don't have the same
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kind of concerns, we still have concerns. I mean these guys are going to be real
concerned about which way traffic goes, just from a comfort level, if not -- if nothing
else, but even though it may not have any bad impacts on them, just that comfort level
of, boy, this is different. I think it's an expensive thing to re-look at this thing -- or to look
at this. The last time it was looked at from here to Cherry and then this segment was
looked at, because we were concentrating on really dealing with the congestion up here
in the long-range plan and we didn't look at this in isolation, so we don't have a plan for
that. We looked at these intersections really closely in this study of doing this, but we
need more data of up here and some real analysis.
Corrie: Okay. I think we probably have enough information. We could go on all night
about this, but, Council, how do you want to do this? Do you want to just go ahead and
-- so that we don't delay anything on Franklin Road at this point and then do you want to
have further study as far as Waltman Lane is delayed?
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would move that we keep Franklin on -- Franklin Road move ahead and give a
30 day delay -- and I don't think it has to be a complete delay. I think that ACHD can
still buy their right of way if they have to -- give 30 days for the developer and ACHD to
come back to us with a workable plan and for the Mayor -- as we told ACHD yesterday,
the Mayor would let them know tomorrow on our thoughts. I don't want Franklin held up
one minute.
Nary: I would second that, Mr. Mayor. I guess my only comment would be I think we
have said it enough, that we don't want Franklin delayed. Whatever proposal they want
to make with Waltman Lane and Main Street and Meridian, we certainly will look at it
and I guess the government will be talking about it or thinking about it or thinking about
talking about it, well, that's fine, we can do that. Certainly 30 days is probably plenty
and as long we keep going right along at Franklin, I think that doesn't hurt anybody and I
think you heard Mr. Smith say as well that Waltman Lane wouldn't be critical to wait a
little while to get that accomplished.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Motion made and seconded. Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I guess I'm sure some of the people sitting out there didn't come to listen to
us talk all night, but they may want to make a comment and, you know, I kind of like the
public process. If they have a comment to make, that we should hear it. I know it wasn't
a posted Public Hearing, but I imagine that's why the public comes, to comment. I
would not be opposed to -- if any of these folks have a comment, to allow them the
chance to comment.
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Corrie: Let's hear from John and then we will --
Engh: Just a clarification from Council and Mayor. If we could, Council, as long as we
are going to continue the studies, could we ask for the full support of the Council that all
information regarding the intersection and the studies from the city's consultants be able
to be shared equally and we will share all of our information with you, if you could -- if
you and the Council could back us up and also your information come across the table
to us so we can better understand and plan better this intersection.
Nary: Well, it's his motion, but are you talking about ACHD's engineers?
Engh: Both. Historically folks that have worked for the city on the city's behalf in order
to plan the intersection itself.
Nary: Well, again, it's Mr. Bird's motion, but I certainly don't see any reason why we
can't share information.
Bird: ACHD can give you everything --
Engh: Thank you.
Corrie: Okay. This, like I say, is not a Public Hearing, but how many would like to say
something? One, two, three, four. Okay. All right. Let's start here with this gentleman
in the center and if you will just give us your name and address, please.
Kassens: Elmer Kassens, I live at 735 West Carlton. I wonder if he could put back this
one that they proposed. That one scared me when I saw it, because I have been a
traffic engineer for 30 years and that just doesn't work. It exceeds the capacity and
these areas are not really considered in this looking at it as a one-way couplet and that's
possible it could work that way. It's kind of scary to me to start designing one of these
without looking at the traffic signal operation and whether it can work or not. Now that
one, if you -- could operate that way, but even that, you need a major study of the traffic
movements to see what kind of signal timing you would have before you really know if
it's going to work. We had one similar to this over in Twin Falls on North Five Points
and there was just no way to make it work until we cut one leg off and made it a four
legged intersection. At the time we were looking at that one, one of the developers said
that they had one down in Arizona someplace that it just worked fine and he couldn't
see why this one didn't work. We wrote to the Highway Department down there and
they wrote back and said that they had actually less traffic than North Five Points did
and they said it was a terrible problem and they don't know what to do with it. I can --
just wanted to kind of back up some of Terry's thoughts on this, because there is
consideration here other than just looking at a design and it looks good on paper. You
have got to come up with one that will move the traffic before you do it and a five-legged
intersection doesn't do it. Thank you.
Corrie: Thank you. Somebody else on this side and then we will get to Terry.
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Redlin: Curt Redlin, 703 South Meridian Road, and right in the middle of this fray of this
thing, I guess. I have been at the location for 12 years and I have seen this intersection
grow from two businesses, Chevron and McDonald's, too considerably more. The only
thing I can say -- I mean I have heard all of these things for 12 years now that are said
tonight on this intersection and it's very perplexing. What I see the main bottleneck in
this whole plan -- and I don't really have a problem with the new plan, the five legged
intersection issue is -- I think is critical and the aligning, as far as these streets are not
aligning up with each other, I see as a major problem and that determines who has got
the right of way and when and where they are coming from and if you have been
through Five Points in Twin Falls you know what I'm talking about. The biggest problem
that I see is moving the traffic in front of my studio, which is right smack dab in the
middle of this, is the southbound traffic coming off Meridian Road to the freeway is
where the main bottleneck seems to occur, especially between about school out at 3:30
in the afternoon and 6:30 at night. One of the nice plan -- parts of the original plan that
was proposed by ACHD that kind of aided that problem was the fact that they routed
traffic -- routed traffic at the intersection right through here -- that they route -- they took
the traffic around the intersection. Just by the fact of not having to stop at that light
would make a big difference in the flow of traffic and how many cars can actually get
through that intersection. The problem of bringing Waltman into the intersection at the
point that was proposed by the WGI Plan is that all of the southbound traffic coming out
of Franklin is going to have to stop at that light, at least to yield to the Home Depot
crowd and the people that are crossing in from Waltman. That traffic will be held up and
it will have to stop. The only thing I can come up with as an idea tonight would be -- I
don't know if it would be possible or feasible, but it may be an idea -- and that would be
to -- if you can show the WGI Plan again. This might be maybe impossible, but -- and
that would be an overpass of some sort that would go over the top of this thing to get
traffic to come through and that would allow this traffic to go under and this traffic to
pass through. Something to get -- the problem is right in here from what I have seen
from sitting right here and watching it daily for 12 years. The traffic has to stop here in
order to get in line at this intersection and that's where the problem is created back in
here. These two intersections not opposing each other is a problem. Right through
here. I don't have the answer for it. I don't know. I have sat there and watched that
thing for hours and hours and hours and -- but I understand the access -- I don't think
it's a bad idea through here, I think it's a fairly reasonable idea, but the question is,
again, how to get traffic crossing this intersection. You got to have relief here, because
all of these are going to be going northbound, but -- and that will relieve that, but it's also
going to -- at certain times of the day going to force all this traffic into here and then if
you have major development in here, this traffic is going to get on here, so you're going
to have a conflict here from what I can see. Anyway, for what it's worth, there is quite a
little access down in here, probably a hundred feet here, but the issue was -- there is
quite a little access down Meridian through here, but another point was brought up by
backup traffic, that's the key is how far is this going to back up away from the
intersection from Corporate to Central. That's going to be a key issue. The key is
moving through this intersection and I think this would flow if this did not hold up here
and then, of course, on Franklin, the double left turn, that will help get traffic through
Franklin, but we are going to have opposed traffic coming from Old Town onto there. I
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October 8, 2002
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think you're shifting the problem from here up to here is what you're doing. Maybe if
you did both of them it might be able to handle it for -- you know, for a five-year fix or
something like that at the rate of growth. My personal opinion is, for what this is worth,
with this Lochsa coming up in here and I don't know how many thousand residents right
through there, that Ten Mile possible becoming an interchange and some of the traffic
would be encouraged to go through there and stay out of this area, for the future of
Meridian's growth, anyway. Thank you.
Corrie: Thank you. Any questions? Terry.
Smith: Terry Smith, 713 East Kingsford Drive, Meridian. Over the years -- and this is
going over the last two dozen years -- I have been involved in either a transportation
committee or a transportation task force or a chamber transportation committee and so
this intersection has been a discussion for that entire length of time and never has there
been an acceptable solution that expert engineers have come up with or just citizens
that are concerned about traffic. Some of the discussions that we have had have been
really expensive types of solutions, but, you know -- and we citizens looking at it, we
look at it and we say -- but that intersection, being the gateway to the community,
deserves a really expensive solution, because of the lack of options. Now I have
testified before the Council in this chamber against one-way streets, so I and some
others of us are very absolutely against -- did I say one way? One-way couplet. The
reason that those of us are so opposed to it -- and I realize part of the solution from the
property owner is a partial one-way couplet, not a full one-way couplet, but is drivers
need an alternative choice. When there is one-way streets -- now this is a non-traffic
engineer saying this -- if you have one-way streets, the driver needs to be able to
choose a way to not have to go on those one-way streets or get involved in them.
Meridian is unique in that it doesn't have, like most communities you see with one-way
streets, whether it's Caldwell or Nampa or Boise, you don't have alternative choices
entering the community and even when you get to Franklin your choices of getting
through downtown Meridian are limited to three railroad crossings and there won't be
any additional railroad crossings. No matter what you're looking at in this intersection,
the Council has to be looking beyond how can traffic get through the rest of Meridian
beyond this intersection when a solution is arrived at here. Third and a half street is one
way once you get to Franklin, but that could be designed to get one more way through.
rdth
That's East 3. West 4 is another way when that street is completed. That's the rest
of the community, but the entire bottleneck for everything starts right here. Some of the
discussions have included, since Meridian Road -- the Meridian-Kuna Highway comes
straight across the interstate and continues -- Meridian continues on a highway that
goes all the way to other communities, whereas East -- or Main Street, excuse me --
Main Street stops at Cherry Plaza. The key is Meridian and if traffic were to be able to
continue going straight, two-way traffic on Meridian and a design be arrived at that
traffic could go right onto Main Street. The expensive part would be a lane then coming
on Main Street to the south, it would have to go underneath or over, like was said by Mr.
Redlin, those are expensive propositions, but they are solutions, rather than having
another confusing, unpleasant, gateway to the community of Meridian.
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Corrie: Thank you, Terry. There was -- over here. Okay. All right.
Caven: Mr. Mayor, Council, my name is Mike Caven, 6834 Fairview Avenue in Boise.
I'm owner and represent the owner of that piece right there. Lucky me. I have been
through this as long as these other people talking about it and there have been
hundreds of different ideas, solutions -- I guess I'm glad where we are today. It sounds
like we are getting close and it sounds like some people want to get together and
communicate ideas back and forth, alternatives back and forth. I have tried to get
communication going back and forth and it basically comes down to, well, we are buying
that, there is no alternative for that piece of property. We didn't buy it and, ACHD we
want you to buy it from us. If that ends up happening, that happens, but, you know, our
interest is to figure a way to have some development on this two acres in size and I said
if it comes down to it and ACHD needs to buy it, that's what it is. We didn't buy it for
that we bought it with the intent on doing some development of some type on there.
Anyway, I have worked with Mr. Canfield -- in fact, I was sitting in front of his desk back
earlier last year, ACHD called and said we want to talk to you about Waltman Lane.
Sitting right in front of Mr. Canfield right now we'd like to get with you and talk about it
and we had submitted some plans to them and now some additional plans just recently
and I think -- don't hold this up for Franklin, keep going as fast as you can with Franklin.
Locust Grove, Linder, I don't know where those are at, but if you can get those going,
that's going to solve a lot of this problem. Everybody has got to cross right here and I
know there is work for Locust Grove. I don't know where that -- what happened to that
as an overpass there, but I sure think that would solve a lot of the traffic issues that
we're dealing with. You have a great opportunity for some great tax base in here, like
they're saying, that's a one-time shot to take advantage of that and it's sure worth the
time to sit down and try to figure that out. Thank you.
Corrie: I'm glad you want to be part of the solution and not the problem.
Rupe: Linda Rupe, 1422 Rutledge. I will be brief, because I know everybody is tired
and wants to get out of here. Actually, this is the slide that I wanted to use. Real briefly,
I know that we are not here tonight to decide how to fix that intersection, we are here to
decide do we need to delay it or delay Franklin, but I do want to say real briefly that I
hope in making your decision when it does come to finding a solution for this that you
will keep in mind the traffic throughout Meridian. I know the idea being discussed
tonight is to get traffic in and out of this area quickly and easily so it can be developed
and being on the development corporation I am all for getting that area developed.
However, I don't want to see the development of this area destroy what's up here and
these people are already here, they are already working hard, they are already
concerned with Meridian. I just want to make sure that whatever solution we find for this
intersection can work for this area, but does not destroy what's already here. That's it.
Thank you.
Corrie: Thank you, Linda. Anyone else on this side? Outside of attorneys.
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October 8, 2002
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Butler: Thanks. JoAnn Butler, 2115 Bluestem Street. Just picking up on a practical
point that Linda brought up to try to find a solution for the entire area, appreciate what
Linda just said. Practically, with a 30-day time slot, John mentioned we need direction
for the -- really, the information so that everybody can work together and I know that's
really not the city, it is ACHD that generates that information, but -- I'll let Terry answer
this -- if ACHD needs particular direction from Meridian, say, they could release that
information so that everybody can work together and I'd ask that that happen.
Otherwise, that's not necessary that it just be released. Thank you.
Corrie: You can have any information we have to get this thing solidified and I'm sure
Terry is sitting there shaking his head yes, too, so we will give you all the help we can.
We would like to see the development there, but also from the standpoint of the City
Council and the Mayor, we have got everybody to think about, not just one. That's --
Terry will help you, we will help you, you help us, and maybe we can get a solution.
From our standpoint we take in everybody, not just one, so -- anybody else?
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: There is a motion on the floor.
Corrie: Yes, there is.
De Weerd: But I would say that it seems like there is several interested people that
might be able to help out, Mr. Kassens and Mr. Smith and Ms. Rupe and -- you know,
take advantage of the interest -- and Mr. Redlin. Take advantage of the interest and
maybe they can help find some workable solution. I would call for the question.
Corrie: Okay. The question is -- the motion is that a 30-day delay of the Waltman Lane
project and no delay on the Franklin Road project. Correct? Okay. Any other
discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion say aye. Opposed no.
Motion is carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Corrie: And we will -- Gary, I will -- you can take that back and I will call tomorrow, too,
as well. That was a good discussion. I think that -- I still think there is a way this is
going to work. If it does, that's great. If it doesn't --
Nary: We are no worse than we are today.
Corrie: Any other discussion, Council?
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Meridian City Council Meeting
October 8, 2002
Page 59 o f 59
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Before we adjourn I was just going to make sure Council -- on Thursday night is
the Meridian Merchants Association. The calendar signing that Mr. Siddoway and two
of our police officers, as well as all of our firefighters --
De Weerd: And Council member --
Nary: So I would just make sure people will be there.
Corrie: Okay. With that I will entertain a motion to adjourn.
Bird: I so move.
Nary: Second.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 10:34 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
APPROVED:
/ /
ROBERT D. CORRIE, MAYOR DATE
ATTESTED:
WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., CITY CLERK