HomeMy WebLinkAbout2002 10-15
Meridian City Council Meeting October 15, 2002
The Regular Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:00 P.M. on
Tuesday, October 15, 2002, by Mayor Robert D. Corrie.
Members Present: Mayor Robert Corrie, Tammy de Weerd, Keith Bird, Cherie
McCandless, and William Nary.
Others Present: Bill Nichols, Brad Hawkins-Clark, Gary Smith, Brad Watson, Ken
Bowers, Dean Willis, and Will Berg.
Item 1. Roll-call Attendance:
X Tammy de Weerd X Bill Nary
X Cherie McCandless X Keith Bird
X Mayor Robert Corrie
Corrie: All right. I'm going to open the Meridian City Council Regular Meeting on
Tuesday, October 15, 2002, at 7:00 P.M. Would you, please, have roll call attendance,
please, Mr. Clerk?
Item 2: Adoption of the Agenda:
Corrie: Okay. Item Number 2 is the Adoption of the Agenda. Council, any additions, or
corrections to the agenda?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Okay. Hearing none, I'll entertain a motion to adopt the agenda as written.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would move that we adopt the agenda as published.
McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded to adopt the agenda as published.
Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion say aye. All
ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Item 3. Consent Agenda:
A. October 1, 2002
Approve minutes of City Council Regular Meeting:
Meridian City Council
October 15, 2002
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B. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law: MI 02-008
Request
for approval to construct a temporary private road for the
Fairview Lakes
construction of Phase 1 of by Hopkins Financial
Services, Inc. – 824 East Fairview Avenue:
C. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law: RZ 02-002
Request
Holy
for a rezone of 1.52 acres from R-4 to L-O zones for the
Nativity Episcopal Church
by the Holy Nativity Episcopal Church
th
– 1021 West 8 Street:
D. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law: AZ 02-017
Request
for annexation and zoning of 5.41 acres from M-1 to I-L zones for
Ronald Yanke property
by Ronald Yanke and Walter T. Sigmont
Jr.– northwest corner of East Franklin Road and North Eagle Road
on East Lanark Street:
E. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law: AZ 02-018
Request
for annexation and zoning of 5 acres from RUT to L-O zones for
Bair Property Annexation
by Donn Reiswig – 3975 East Franklin
Road:
F. Development Agreement: AZ 01-009
Request for annexation
and zoning of 8.15 acres from RUT to R-4 zones for proposed
Staten Park Subdivision
by CMD, Inc. – southeast corner of North
Black Cat Road and West Ustick Road:
G. Agreement for Services with MD Willis, Inc.:
H. Approve New Beer and Liquor License Applications for
Goodwood Barbecue – 1140 N. Eagle Road:
I. Approve Beer License Transfer and New Liquor License
Application for Tequila Grill Restaurante by David Samuelson
– 2031 E. Fairview Avenue, Suite 103:
J. Silverstone Subdivision Water Latecomer Agreement –
Sundance Development Company:
K. Sale and Purchase Agreement, Permanent Slope Agreement,
Temporary Construction Easement, and Addendum to
Temporary Construction Easement for the Overland Road
Rebuild Project – Ada County Highway District:
Corrie: The next item is the Consent Agenda.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
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Bird: I would move that we approve the Consent Agenda as noted and for the Mayor to
sign and the Clerk to attest on all contracts and papers necessary to be signed.
De Weerd: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded to approve the items on the
Consent Agenda, A through K. Any further discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote, Mr.
Berg.
Roll call vote: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; DeWeerd, aye; Bird, aye.
Corrie: Okay. All ayes motion is approved.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Item 4. Department Reports:
Corrie: The next item is Department Reports. Any Department Reports at this time?
Item 5. (Items Moved from Consent Agenda)
Corrie: All right. Item Number 5 is items moved from the Consent Agenda. There are
no items moved.
Item 6. Ordinance Number : AZ 01-009
Request for
annexation and zoning of 8.15 acres from RUT to R-4 zones for proposed
Staten Park Subdivision
by CMD, Inc. – southeast corner of North Black
Cat Road and West Ustick Road:
Corrie: So Item 6 is an ordinance. Can you give me the number of that, Mr. Berg?
Berg: Sorry I wasn't prepared, Mr. Mayor. It's Ordinance Number 02-979.
Corrie: All right. Ordinance Number 02-979, request for annexation and zoning of 8.15
acres from RUT to R-4 zones for proposed Staten Park Subdivision by CMD, Inc.,
southeast corner of Black Cat Road and West Ustick Road. At this time I would like to
have, the City Clerk read Ordinance Number 02-979 by title only, please.
Berg: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council Ordinance Number 02-979. An
Ordinance finding that certain land to be known as Staten Park Subdivision, the location
of which lies contiguous or adjacent to the city limits of the City of Meridian, County of
Ada, State of Idaho, and finding that the owner Cap Co, Inc., an Idaho corporation, has
made a request for annexation in writing to the Council, that said land be annexed to the
City of Meridian and zoning designated Low Density Residential District (R-4) and
declaring that said land by proper legal description as described below be a part of the
City of Meridian, County of Ada, State of Idaho, repealing all ordinances, resolutions,
orders, or parts thereof in conflict herewith and directing the city engineer to add said
property to the official map of the City of Meridian, Idaho, and directing the clerk of the
City of Meridian to file a certified copy of the ordinance and map of the area to be
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annexed with the Ada County recorder, auditor, treasurer, and assessor and the State
Tax Commission of the State of Idaho, pursuant to Idaho Code Section 50-223 and
Section 63-2215.
Corrie: You have heard the reading of Ordinance Number 02-979 by title only. Is there
anyone from the audience that would like to have the ordinance read in its entirety?
Okay. Hearing none, I will then entertain a motion for the request for annexation and
zoning, Ordinance 02-979.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I move we approved Ordinance Number 02-979, request for annexation and
zoning of 8.15 acres from RUT to R-4 zones for the proposed Staten Park Subdivision
by CMD, Inc., and to instruct the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest, with suspension
of rules.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded to approve Ordinance Number 02-
979, with suspension of rules. Any further discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote, Mr.
Berg.
Roll call vote: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; DeWeerd, aye; Bird, aye.
Corrie: Okay. All ayes. Motion is carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Item 7. Public Hearing: AZ 02-020
Request for annexation and zoning of 39.96
Castlebrook Subdivision
acres from RUT to R-4 zones for proposed by
Crestline Development, LLC – 950 North Black Cat Road:
Item 8. Public Hearing: PP 02-016
Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 120
building lots and 11 other lots on 39.96 acres in a proposed R-4 zone for
Castlebrook Subdivision
proposed by Crestline Development LLC – 950
North Black Cat Road:
Corrie: Item Number 7 is a Public Hearing, request for annexation and zoning of 39.96
acres from RUT to R-4 zones for proposed Castlebrook Subdivision by Crestline
Development, LLC, 950 North Black Cat Road. With the Council's approved I would
open the Public Hearing for the same request on the Preliminary Plat. Hearing no
objections.
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Okay then I will open the Public Hearing on both Item Numbers 7 and 8 and we
will invite staff comments first on the annexation and zoning and the Preliminary Plat.
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Hawkins-Clark: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council my apologies on this
one. We will see if we can get our overhead working here in a minute, but I will just
move through these, according to the recommendation that you have received from the
Planning and Zoning Commission. The date of that is October 10, 2002. The applicant
is Crestline Development, LLC, and they have proposed a subdivision on the east side
of Black Cat Road, just south of -- approximately a half-mile south of Cherry Lane.
They are proposing 120 building lots and 11 other lots. The annexation and zoning
request and the Preliminary Plat, both are recommended for approval from the Planning
and Zoning Commission. They have requested an R-4 zone, which is in conformance
with the Comprehensive Plan. I believe the applicant is in agreement with all of the
recommended conditions that are in the recommendation. I would like to point out just
three items -- well, I guess there is a few more than that -- on the recommendation.
Item Number 2, there is still some outstanding item on the sewer lift station that is there.
Mainly, staff is just recommending that an analysis be a part of the conditions -- a
positive result of an analysis be one of the conditions. The applicant has agreed to that,
but there is still a little bit of outstanding study to be done from the Public Works
Department to make sure that those sewer lift stations are going to work okay. On
Page 3 of the recommendation, Item Number 7, a paving plan has been proposed.
They are essentially just proposing to have two phases of the project. They are
essentially splitting it in half between the north and the south, and approximately the
same number of lots in each phase. The first phase does have two approved vehicle
access points, so they are meeting the requirements of the Fire Department there with
that first phase. I'd like to suggest one change there on Item Number 9 on Page 3 of
the recommendation. It says a detailed landscape -- it should be a detailed landscape
plan -- in compliance with the Landscape Ordinance shall be submitted for the
subdivision and then the remainder should be struck and replaced with the Final Plat
application. That's just -- that's a correction there. That Number 9 would just be added,
a detailed Landscape Plan, and then strike the second line beginning, at least 10 days
prior to the Public Hearing and just state, with the Final Plat application. Then on Page
4 of the recommendation, the applicant has submitted a revised Preliminary Plat that
does comply with many of the conditions that staff originally had proposed. I'd like to
suggest striking 14, 15, 16, and 18, because we do have a Preliminary Plat that reflects
all of those corrections. They have complied with those so we don't need to add those
into the findings.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Yes, Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: Brad, what is the date on that revised plat?
Hawkins-Clark: The revised plat is -- revised September 2002. Well, actually, it's
revised -- yes. The revision block was not -- with the date there. Yes. I guess the seal
is correct. It is October 14, 2002 and I did receive copies of the final revised Preliminary
Plat today, which I will give to the clerk for the record. That was October 14, 2002, that
plat does reflect those items there. Then the last item I wanted to draw to your attention
is Number 20 on Page 4 of the recommendation and it states the fence surrounding the
perimeter of the project. We have a -- just to strike the perimeter and put Lot 10, Block
5.
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Bird: Is that 23? It says 21. That --
Hawkins-Clark: I have got Item Number 20 on --
Bird: Oh, the Preliminary Plat.
Hawkins-Clark: Yes we are referring to the Preliminary Plat recommendation, not the
annexation and zoning.
Bird: Okay.
Hawkins-Clark: But they do have a 1.6-acre private park in the center of their
subdivision proposed. What this condition is referring to is the fence surrounding that
1.6-acre private park. We -- the Planning and Zoning Commission recommended that
they go with a four-foot solid on the bottom, with a two-foot lattice on the top, and so
that the rest of that condition is right, it just needs to refer to the Lot 10, Block 5, which
would be the correct lot. Otherwise, I think all of the conditions in both the annexation
and zoning and Preliminary Plat recommendation are correct. Thanks.
Corrie: Okay. Thank you, Brad. Any questions of staff? Okay. This is a Public
Hearing. Is the applicant here? Is the testimony you're about to give the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Amar: Yes, it is.
Corrie: Name and address, please, for the record.
Amar: My name is Kevin Amar, 416 North Main Street in Meridian.
Corrie: You have 10 minutes.
Amar: Thank you. I will try to make it brief. Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, we are
here before you this evening for Castlebrook Subdivision. As Brad stated, we are in
agreement with all conditions of -- or requested or recommended conditions of approval
of this subdivision. We have worked from day one with the staff on that and have made
some modifications to this plat based on their recommendation and ACHD's
recommendations and we feel that this project that we have here before you this
evening is a very good project. It has a centralized park and it really provides a
subdivision that is community minded and that the neighbors can get to know each
other in a centrally located park. First, for reference of the project -- I don't know if --
there we go. Cherry Lane and Black Cat -- this project is located directly to the south
Coral Creek Subdivision on Black Cat Road. We do have approximately 40 acres, 120
lots. We are asking this evening for a recommendation of approval of the subdivision at
three units to the acre. That is below the Comp Plan in this area and feel that this
subdivision will not only meet the Comp Plan, but it is compatible with the subdivisions
that were recently approved in this area and other subdivisions that have been
approved within the City of Meridian. The subdivision itself has a 1.65-acre park in the
center. Originally, this park was located up in the southwest corner and due to the
canal setting off that portion, in meetings with staff, with your staff, they suggested that
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we relocate that park more to a centralized location. We did do that and feel we have a
much better project because of that. This -- we have stub roads at this location, one on
Black Cat and El Gato, or -- it is located here, that we will be improving. This has been
approved by ACHD and changed slightly. Initially, we had two accesses onto Black
Cat. They changed that to one, due to site distance requirements and access
requirements. Also to reduce the number of accesses onto the main road and that was
something that ACHD stated and also something that your staff supported. We are
connecting into Coral Creek through this stub road to the north. We have future
connections to the east and then this will be a connection onto El Gato. With regards to
phasing, our phase line will be basically in this area. Our phase one on the northern
half. Phase 1 we have met with the Fire Chief and they have requested that we have
secondary access or two ways in, two ways out, on every project, so we will
accommodate that with phase one. When the first house is started there will be two
ways into this subdivision. Eventually, there will actually been four accesses into this
subdivision. This is the location of the property as it currently sits looking -- this is the
property, as it exists now. It's being used as residential. You can see Coral Creek here
to the north. They have been raising cattle and some farming operations on the project
and in one of these pictures -- this picture, I believe, you can see the -- this would be
this canal running through the project. We have worked with the Irrigation District in
providing irrigation -- pressurized irrigation, also cross-access required, and that will be
maintained by Nampa-Meridian Irrigation District. One of the features we are providing
in the subdivision is some pretty strict CC&Rs. What we are finding throughout the
valley, not only in Meridian, but other jurisdictions, that the residents that currently live
there are interested in what are you going to do in the project. How is this going to
affect us? What we feel -- what we have done in other projects and what we are doing
currently in other projects is with the provision of some pretty strict CC&Rs, this will
really provide a subdivision that people will be proud to live next to, live in, and a
subdivision we will be proud to call one of our own. We have CC&Rs that we did
provide to you in this packet. Some of the items that we put in those CC&Rs, each front
yard will have a yard light with a maximum of a 60-watt bulb. All the roofing material
would be an upgraded 25-year material and it all will be a consistent black color that
gets away from, well, I think this is a light shade. I think this is a dark shade we have a
consistency throughout the entire subdivision. We also require architectural
components, such brick, stucco, rocks -- all of the houses that are going to be built in
this subdivision will have to go through the architectural control committee and be in
compliance with that. One of the other features we have is some pretty strict
landscaping requirements and fencing requirements, that the fencing has to be up
within 60 days from Occupancy Permit, the landscaping has to be up within 60 days of
Occupancy Permit, weather permitting. Those things will enhance the subdivision and
make it look nice continually. We have here pictures of -- my pointer is not working.
This is Autumn Faire Subdivision, as well as some of these pictures -- as you can see,
this one is under construction and if you go down to this one, it was recently completed,
this is all landscaped, it's fenced, they have got the RV behind the fence, we don't allow
on-street parking. Autumn Faire has the same CC&Rs as we are proposing in this
subdivision. We have also got a subdivision called Oakridge Subdivision out in Nampa,
but the same 1,400 square foot minimum, the same CC&Rs, as you can see
streetscape here, you can see some of the home sizes, the homes in Oakridge
Subdivision range from 1,400 square feet to 2,800 square feet. We really can see a
variety of housing within that subdivision, yet still maintain a beautiful area that people
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will move into. As I said, we feel we have provided an excellent subdivision for the City
of Meridian, one that we have been happy to work with staff on and we think we have
worked very well with staff on. Again, we are agreeing with all the requested conditions
of approval and at this time, we ask for your consideration in voting for approving this
subdivision.
Corrie: Okay. Any questions?
Bird: I have none.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: What's the intention with the open space?
Amar: Mr. Mayor, Council Member Nary, the open space in this location -- we are
fencing it. That fence will be maintained, as Brad stated, it will be a four foot solid and
two foot lattice style fence. Now that fence will be maintained by the homeowners
association. What we don't want is a fence that's going to not look attractive and it will
be an area that kids can go out and play, trees, grass, underground sprinkler, meeting
the landscape ordinance.
Nary: There wasn't any intention to have playground equipment or anything else just
grass? The fencing is adjacent to the homes adjacent to the park, is that what it is?
Amar: Yes. On this boundary and this boundary we are not fencing this, we want it to
be more of an open feeling. Also, with the two-foot lattice on top, that will give more
view to the park from those neighbors, so it will be a safe park. We have got a view all
the way around. As far as play facilities, we hadn't planned any at that time. What we
are seeing is people want more of an area to run around, play soccer, and play Frisbee
or whatever they want. It's a large, 1.65 acres, that they can do that.
Nary: There are no benches, there is nothing else, just grass?
Amar: Correct not planned at this time.
Nary: Is there any variation in house sizes or lot sizes? I mean on the drawing it
doesn't appear to have any variety, so --
Amar: We can -- apparently, Ms. Wildwood has prepared a comparison and will go over
that with regards to what the variation is and what it looks like, if I may defer that
question.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
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De Weerd: I noticed on the plat you do have the different square footage sizes on
there, but on your park, is that also a drainage area?
Amar: We don't intend it to be at this time.
De Weerd: Okay so it's not recessed any?
Corrie: If our engineer tells us we have to, we will, but at this time we don't -- we want it
a park. If it's recessed, it will be slightly only. It is a large enough area that it won't need
to be a deep pit, if you will. I know some areas around the city -- and I have spoken
with your engineer about that and they are concerned, as well as I'm sure you are,
about providing an area that is usable open space. This would be -- this park will be
something that we will be using as marketing and telling people you're going to have the
park, so when it's built we have provided an area that will be telling people it's true. It's
going to be an area that's usable open space, extremely usable open space.
De Weerd: Well, it seems to me like Coral Park just to the north had an extremely high
water table. Weren’t there some issues with that water table? Does this property have
the same issues or --
Amar: We have been monitoring this property. We have hired MTI, Material Testing
Inspection, to go out and monitor this property for groundwater. We found varying
reports. They have got a report out to us now, but it looks like the depth of that
groundwater is about seven to eight feet, which we are trying to take those when people
aren't watering. Obviously, when they are watering it would two feet deep or one foot
deep. What we are finding is this should not have the groundwater problem. This is not
-- other than this location here, it doesn't have any drainage that runs next to it, which
seems to help in a lot of our projects -- or a lot of our projects that we do. Typically, the
water is drained and -- with regard to -- I'm going to address that. With regards to the
pumping, we also know that there is no -- the City of Meridian doesn't want mosquito
ponds as well, as Brad Watson pointed out today, and I wholeheartedly concur with
that.
De Weerd: The mosquitoes are really bad out in that area to begin with, so, yes, you
don't need to add to --
Amar: I used to live near that area and I understand. There is -- they like that area.
De Weerd: Yes they do. Now also I notice that the school district wrote a letter that
said that they would not be guaranteeing that the kids would go to their designated
school, because of the crowding issue. How will you be notifying people going into that
subdivision of that potential probability?
Amar: We have met with Wendell Bigham on numerous occasions and he did tell us
about that that was a problem. That is something we will have to do as far as a
marketing disclosure, as people go in and talk to the realtors that we have marketing
this, have something provided saying your children will go to school, although we are
not sure which schools they are going into. A recent conversation with Wendell, that
may be resolved or the question may be easier to answer with the bond being passed.
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They have to look at some boundaries and things of that nature again, but he felt
comfortable that he was getting closer to be able to answer that question. We are
aware of that issue and that's something we will be working with the school district, as
well as the potential owner within that property to understand that the kids will be going
to Meridian schools at a location to be determined by the school district.
De Weerd: Okay. Well, it's nothing against realtors, but we have found that quite often
those messages are not generally delivered.
Amar: I understand and we provide those realtors a form that says what I stated to you
and so they can hand those to potential owners, rather than remembering to relay that
to them. We try to make their job as easy as possible also, remember, when they come
in we hand them this. We have done that in other areas with regards to farming, with
regards airports, that at this date there is farming going on in this area, and those forms
seem to work out pretty well, because people do not that ask something they have in
their hand and can read. That's been something that's been pretty successful for us in
our marketing.
De Weerd: You may want to include mosquito abatement's phone number on there.
Amar: We can include that on there.
De Weerd: I have nothing further.
Corrie: Any other questions?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Okay.
Amar: Thank you.
Nickels: Mr. Mayor and Council --
Corrie: Raise your right hand, Shawn. Is the testimony you're about to give the truth,
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Nickels: Yes, sir.
Corrie: Name and address, please.
nd
Nickels: Shawn Nickels, LCI, 52 North 2 Street in Eagle. It's been awhile since I have
been here. I forgot I had to raise my hand. Very briefly, the plan you see in front of you
is a result of many meetings with not only your staff, both Brad and Brad, were great
working with -- we brought this property in before we even threw a design on it to find
out what they recommended and what the Comprehensive Plan and ordinances would
allow. Staff's suggestion of moving the park I believe created a much better design that
you see if front of you today. We also met two or three times with Joe Silva of the Fire
Department to make sure he was satisfied with our street layouts and, again, that's a
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result of that, including the phasing plan to allow him proper access for both phases at
all times. With regard to the school district, as Mr. Amar said, we did met with Wendell
Bigham at the onset of this to find out any concerns he may have. He did indicate that
no guarantees of where the children would be going, to what school, no promises, and
we indicated that in the marketing disclosure we will explain that and mosquito
abatement, that, too. The Comprehensive Plan and the Zoning Ordinance have been
met on this and I will stand for any questions you may have on the design.
Corrie: Questions of Shawn?
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: You said for only in terms of the analysis or doing it in regards to the sewer
and the capacity, is that -- when you said that, is that what your phasing plan is in
regard to, what the sewer capacity can withhold -- or withstand?
Nickels: I don't know. I don't think it was and we are working with Brad. I know some
further analysis is going on out there with regards to sewer. That's all I can really
answer on that but the phasing plan was just done for how they want us to develop the
property was with those two phases.
De Weerd: Well, I guess, Mr. Mayor, my question, then, is for Brad. What -- as I
understand it, you're doing further analysis. What is that in regard to?
Watson: Council Member de Weerd, Mayor and Council Members, the further analysis
is pump motor monitoring at the Ashford Greens lift station that the Blackstone lift
station will discharge to. We have flow monitoring data and I have looked at that. The
problem we have had -- and you probably don't want to hear this story, so I will keep it
very short -- we are trying to add the third pump at Ashford Greens lift station, we have
been trying to do that over the last two months. The supplier supplied the wrong thing --
long story short, it will be installed next week, so we don't have that information yet to
make a full determination. There is nothing insurmountable about sewering this lift
station. There will need to be some upgrades to the Coral Creek-Blackstone lift station
and they are fully aware of those.
De Weerd: Okay so it isn't an issue of whether we can sewer this at this time with the
lift stations that we have or we are putting in.?
Watson: No, Council Member de Weerd, it's more a question of what kind of
improvement to the Coral Creek lift station will they be responsible for.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Thanks.
Corrie: Thank you. Is the testimony you're about to give the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Wildwood: It is. Thank you.
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Corrie: Name and address, please.
Wildwood: For the record, my name is Susan Wildwood, I'm an Attorney with offices in
Boise, Post Office Box 6502, and I'm here on behalf of the applicant. Very quickly, we
understand that we are responsible for any required upgrades to the sewer and I did
want to point out one thing with regard to this property. There is a -- one of the reasons
for the drainage is there a slight elevation difference between the southern half of the
property and the northern half. The south half is actually a little bit higher and we will, of
course, be working making sure we don't have a mosquito abatement problem down in
that particular area. We don't own the property that's actually in the drain that goes into
Coral Creek, but we will be doing everything else we possibly can to make sure that is
not a problem. Working on the marketing disclosures, I prepare that as a marketing
disclosure and those are the kinds of documents we insist that the realtors use those.
We try and check those pretty carefully, because we don't to have somebody coming
back and saying, hey, you forgot to tell us about this particular problem. I had prepared
part of the packet that you received tonight and you got a small copy, almost impossible
to read, but at least you have got a copy, and we weren't sure what we would find as far
as a presentation goes. You also have a copy of the key that's on this particular
display. What we tried to do is take a project that you had seen the developer before,
Autumn Faire, and do an exact comparison that you were asking for, Council Member
Nary, Mr. Nary, and Mrs. de Weerd. What we have here is Autumn Faire and then we
have this particular project. I color coded it, so that you can see on a visual rendition
the proportionate amount of lots and then on this particular key it gives you the exact
number of lots, the percentage of the total lots, and then the percentage of that same
size lot in Autumn Faire. The second line that has pink, 9,000 to 9,999, for 23 lots, what
the 31 percent that's in parenthesis means is 31 percent of the total development is
9,000 square feet or larger. That gives you the comparison that you were looking at. I
broke it down lot and block and then color-coded it, because I, myself, can't track these
things, I have got to color it, because the numbers all blur together for me. You can see
the distribution. When we changed the park from this area, in order to have a -- to
develop it correctly with an access, we ended up with these size lots in this particular
area, so that we would have the hammerhead be able get in and utilize that particular
lot configuration. The other two things that I provided for you in color is a streetscape
that actually exists on the other display that Kevin is showing you. This is at Oakridge.
Then this is the entryway into Autumn Faire. We have here another possible entryway
that we can utilize in Caroline Place, which is actually over in Boise. Because Coral
Creek has meandering sidewalks, we will be matching that along Black Cat, so that we
will have consistent sidewalks matching with that and that's actually illustrated here,
which is Campton Heights also in Meridian. Then this is some of the exterior
landscaping at Autumn Faire, but just to show you that this is brand new landscaping
and the exhibit that we had in here showing Oakridge, shows how this project was built
out less than five years ago. This just gives you an idea of the streetscape
requirements and what the streetscapes will look like internally. I think it's helpful when
you look at what this developer does in other projects with the same restrictive
covenants, what it is actually going to look like when you get there. The other thing that
I provided for you, these are fliers that I pulled from Autumn Faire and I took the
smallest lots in the subdivision -- they are actually key to these lots and these are the
actual houses that are built and for sale in this particular area. You can see the lots
sizes generally far exceed the 1,400 square foot minimum. In fact, the house that exists
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October 15, 2002
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-- this little house right here is exactly the -- I don't know if you can see this. I'll point it
out. The two houses -- and there were others, but I found these houses of particular
note. This is rather a large customhouse, it's actually got the flier inside there, and I
can't remember which one it is. This one is, actually, a starter you home and it has a
funny story. The gentleman who is building it is a young man of 24, it's his first home,
and he is a framer. That house is 2,000 square feet on the main level, it's got a 500
square foot bonus room, and it’s a gorgeous house. And it's on a pretty small lot. The
reason he was able to build that house -- I talked to him yesterday. The reason he
could build that house for him and his new bride was because the lot prices were so
reasonable. I just wanted to show you what is possible in a subdivision, even though
you don't have the giant lot sizes, I hear quite a mix between tiny lots, big lots. This is a
snowbird couple. A delightful couple. They have, obviously, their two-car garage here,
they have rather a lovely motor home, and they were just getting the landscaping set up
and they are ready to head off to Arizona. That's also in Autumn Faire. What I want to
illustrate for you is that these are -- the CC&Rs are very strictly enforced and it results in
a very nice development and we think that that's the same product that we have brought
for you today. With that, thank you, Mr. Mayor, I will stand for any questions.
Corrie: Any questions? Thank you.
Wildwood: Thank you.
Corrie: I had one person signed up for the Public Hearing. Mr. Soo Lee? Is there
anyone from the public that would like to issue testimony? That's you? Thank you. Is
there anyone else from the public that would like to issue testimony tonight? Okay.
Council, any questions that you need to discuss while the Public Hearing is still open?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Okay. If there is none, then, I will entertain a motion to close the Public Hearing
on Item Numbers 7 and 8, request for annexation and zoning of Castlebrook
Subdivision and the request for Preliminary Plat.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we close the Public Hearing on AZ 02-020 and PP 02-016.
McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded to close the Public Hearing on
Item Numbers 7 and 8. Any further discussion? All those in favor of the motion say
aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Corrie: Let's take them one at a time, then. Item AZ 02-020, request for annexation
and zoning. Any discussion?
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October 15, 2002
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Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Okay. Hearing no discussion, I'll entertain a motion on the request.
McCandless: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. McCandless.
McCandless: I move that we approve AZ 02-020, the request for annexation and
zoning of 39.96 acres from RUT to R-4 zones for proposed Castlebrook Subdivision by
Crestline Development, LLC, at 950 North Black Cat Road, to include the staff
comments and have the attorney draw up the proper papers.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: All right. Motion has been made and seconded to approve the request for
annexation and zoning AZ 02-020. Any further discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote,
Mr. Clerk.
Roll call vote: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; DeWeerd, aye; Bird, aye.
Corrie: All ayes. Motion for the request for annexation and zoning approved.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Corrie: We have the request for Preliminary Plat.
McCandless: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. McCandless.
McCandless: I move that we approve the request for Preliminary Plat for PP 02-016,
approval of 120 building lots and 11 other lots on 39.96 acres in a proposed R-4 zone
for proposed Castlebrook Subdivision by Crestline Development, LLC, incorporating
staff's comments and the attorney to draw up the proper papers.
Bird: Mr. Mayor, I'll second that, but also include the recommendations of the staff on
that --
McCandless: Yes.
Corrie: Yes. Okay. Motion has been made and seconded. Any further discussion?
Hearing none, roll call vote, Mr. Berg.
Roll call vote: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; DeWeerd, aye; Bird, aye.
Corrie: Okay. All ayes. Motion for Preliminary Plat is approved.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Meridian City Council
October 15, 2002
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Item 9. Public Hearing: CUP 02-023
Request for a Conditional Use Permit to
place a Class A manufactured home on a permanent foundation in an L-O
Treasure Valley Worship Center
zone for by Treasure Valley Worship
Center – 50 West Spicewood Drive:
Corrie: Item Number 9 is a Public Hearing. It is a request for a Conditional Use Permit
to place a Class A manufactured home on a permanent foundation in an L-O zone for
Treasure Valley Worship Center by Treasure Valley Worship Center, 50 West
Spicewood Drive. At this time, I will open the Public Hearing on the request for a
Conditional Use Permit and have staff comments first.
Hawkins-Clark: Thank you, Mayor, Members of the Council. The application before
you is on property that has an L-O zoning. The Planning and Zoning Commission's
th
recommendation is dated October 10 that you have. The site does have an existing
church. The Treasure Valley Worship Center is currently located there with a single-
story building and their parking lot. They have quite a bit of vacant ground that is to the
north of the church. They are proposing to place a manufactured home on a permanent
foundation there at the north boundary. The Planning and Zoning Commission did have
some opposition at that point in time. Primarily they discussed the landscaping that is
currently on site and the maintenance of that. There was some discussion about that at
the Planning and Zoning Commission and they primarily wanted to insure that the
revised landscaping is in conformance with the Landscape Ordinance, so staff would
insure that that happened at the time of the Certificate of Zoning Compliance. There is
a Development Agreement that is on the property that runs with the land. That
Development Agreement was reviewed by staff at the time and it also does deal with
landscaping issues, most of which -- well, all of which we feel can be handled and we
would address that they bring that -- Meridian and Spicewood Drive landscaping into
conformance with our current Landscape Ordinance. They have been asked to paint
the manufactured home to match and compliment the church on the existing structure.
They have also been asked as a part the conditions to provide signage that's in
accordance with our zoning ordinance. There are some temporary signs that have
been noticed on the property off and on and we would simply ask that those temporary
signs also be in conformance with the city ordinance, which basically does not allow
them, unless they do get a temporary Sign Permit, and that's only for 20 days at a time.
I believe that the -- the Ada County Highway District conditions are in there, standard
conditions, and I don't have any modifications to the recommendation and, as I said, the
Commission did recommend approval with the conditions shown there. Thanks.
Corrie: Thank you, Brad. Any comments from the Council? Questions? All right.
Okay. Is the developer's representative here this evening? Is the testimony you're
about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Cruz: Yes.
Corrie: Name and address, please.
Cruz: My name is David Cruz, I'm the Assistant Pastor at Treasure Valley Worship
Center, and I reside at 181 North Liberty in Boise. We are presenting to you a
Conditional Use Permit request for placing a manufactured home upon our property. It
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October 15, 2002
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is in compliance with the Meridian City Code, it is a Class A manufactured home, six
inch walls, with wood siding, shingle roof. The home was donated to the church. We
are, frankly, out of room for our Sunday School and et cetera and this would be a great
help as we continue to grow. The issues that were presented just a moment ago are
very agreeable to us, to bring the Landscaping Ordinance into compliance with the city.
We understand that and we understand that we must have that done before a
Certificate of Occupancy can be issued and we are in the process of totally revising our
sign system, it's already in the works. It hasn't been done yet, it's in the process.
Corrie: Okay. Any questions of Mr. Cruz? Okay. Thank you very much. Testimony
from the public, we have Mary Ann Gould. You first. Is the testimony you're about to
give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Gould: It is.
Corrie: State your name and address, please.
Gould: My name is Mary Ann Gould and I reside at 106 West Chrisfield, which is the
next street after the church. That's Spicewood. To the north. I just have a few
comments. I agree they have fixed it up and they are taking better care of this after
going into a -- to try to get their permit, but we really have had a lot of mess over there
in the past. Last winter they had two older camper pickups like parked out in the
parking lot, one with a satellite dish on it. I don't know who might be living in it, but it
was really very trashy looking. Those are gone now and they have put in a nice-
looking, small, storage building, but I feel like we are going to keep adding little buildings
here. One of the main concerns is on Spicewood on Sunday morning you can't hardly
drive down the road, you cannot get access to the Idaho Statesman box that they have
there that has got papers, because there are cars totally lining everything and they are
saying that this building would be used for overflow. Well, they don't have room for
overflow, because they have no parking. They do own the lot across the street, but they
have done nothing to develop that to make room for the parking problem that they have
caused there. Even on the afternoons -- they do have a small parking lot and even in
the afternoons it can be half full to full for activities, I guess, that are going on there.
The landscaping has improved, like I said, since this request went in, but we really have
had a lot of problems with weeds and kind of messy things there. They have improved
that a little, but now -- and they have begun watering regularly, so the grass is green.
The other thing -- and he said it's donated. It's donated, but we understood at the
Planning and Zoning Committee that this is a used manufactured home that someone
has donated and I guess it seems like there is development up the street, there is a
park coming in right down the street. I just kind of feel like if they put this modular or
manufactured home in there, that it will kind of bring down the property values and so
that is my concern.
Corrie: Okay. Thank you, Mary Ann. Any questions of Mary Ann? Okay. Thank you.
Donald Ford. Is the testimony you're about to give the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Ford: It is.
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October 15, 2002
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Corrie: Name and address, please, for the record.
Ford: My name is Donald Ford. I live at 121 West Chrisfield, just around the -- about
five houses down from the church position there and, of course, our only access,
Meridian Road, is right by the church lot. In the past it has been, the upkeep, pretty
bad, but since they have put into this, why they have straightened it up there and the
upkeep of it doesn't bother me as much as their volume of business there in a small
place. Then they want to fill up the rest of the lot with this manufactured home, which I
don't think is really too good for the neighborhood. Then there is already too much
traffic in and out of there during the week and Sundays and that was my concerns about
it.
Corrie: Okay. Thank you. Tyler Rountree. Is the testimony you're about to give the
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Rountree: It is.
Corrie: Name and address, please.
Rountree: Tyler Rountree. I reside at 99 West Chrisfield Drive, right next to Mr. Ford.
My comments are very parallel to what Mr. Ford and Mrs. Gould have stated. The
church is proposing to bring in a manufactured home and put it in on their existing
church property that they own. First and foremost, the building that they are bringing in
was presented us at the P&Z meeting as used. It was donated. In that particular
development where the church is at, the homes around that area, there are no
manufactured homes around there. I think a manufactured home would kind of go
against with what is currently existing as far as property around the church. The other
issue that is really at hand for me is the traffic. The current church parking lot right now
has 30 spaces. In the P&Z meeting, Mr. Cruz's response to that was that they had split
services on Sunday to the church to try and compensate for parking, which they did --
they do have two services on Sunday, both of which are packed, there are cars lining
the street, the parking lot is full. I would like to see, prior to them putting the building on
the lot, that they expand their parking over on the other lot they own on the south side of
Spicewood. The other thing is just the general upkeep, like they stated, the
maintenance of the landscape. I entered to the city some pictures that were taken the
day of the last City Council Meeting and I don't know if you guys have copies of those --
of the pictures that I submitted or not? Okay. I do have pictures of what was corrected
after the meeting and what things currently look like. I think that the landscaping the
church has always had is very substandard. I would also like to comment -- my
comment that I made at the P&Z meeting was that the church has not been a good
neighbor to the City of Meridian. Mr. Cruz agreed to that in his testimony in front of
P&Z. They have not up kept -- the upkeep of the property has been very poor. When
the church was built, the city actually -- again, I talked to P&Z to try and get some more
information on this. The information -- I don't know if it couldn't be found or it was hard
to find, I didn't have a whole lot of time put in front of me to get the information, but what
was recollected from my memory was -- is the city actually had to pursue the church to
get them to go ahead and landscape once the temporary occupancy permit was given
to them. It was kind of a battle between the church and the city. Mr. Cruz's response to
the poor landscape maintenance has been that the church has had problems with the
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October 15, 2002
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sprinkler system, wasn't able to be it repaired, they did finally get it repaired -- as you
can see from the pictures I have got here. The weed problem has been somewhat
addressed, some of the grass is starting to grow back. They did make an effort to get
things picked up after the P&Z Meeting. Basically, I would like the city to make the
church prove to the city that by building the building on this property they can be a
better neighbor to the city. I truly believe that the church has not been a good neighbor
to the city.
Corrie: Okay. Any questions of Tyler?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Okay. Thank you, Tyler. Appreciate it. Anyone else like to issue testimony?
Okay. Mr. Cruz, if you'd like to answer some of these questions that they have brought
forth, you can answer for them, and also if Council has any questions. You're still under
oath, so --
Cruz: Mr. Mayor, Council Members, and we -- we do not dispute many of the things
that were said. As far as the traffic concerns, we understand. We are concerned about
it. However, the cars that are parked on Spicewood are not illegal, it's a perfectly
permitted parking area. Our parking lot is in conformance with the codes of the city for
the amount of parking needed for the necessary amount of people are allowed in our
sanctuary. As a matter of fact, the parking lot exceeds that. As far as the -- again, as
far as the landscaping goes, I have no problem with what they are saying, because it
was a mess and I, actually, want to thank them for bringing it to our attention in such a
way. We are striving to do the best we can. As far as the home goes, when the
completed project is done, the house will look no different than the other building that is
on there now.
McCandless: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. McCandless.
McCandless: Where is the house going -- or the manufactured home? Is it going in the
parking lot?
Cruz: No it's on the north side of the property. We have a storm drain retention pond, a
temporary retention pond, and behind it approximately ten feet, the home will sit across
there and it is setback 20 feet from the residential fence.
McCandless: Thank you.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Mr. Cruz is the intent, then, to have that facility -- you said for overflow. Is the
intent of that is to expand the service on that property?
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October 15, 2002
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Cruz: Eventually, we will add a larger sanctuary and another building.
Nary: So this is a temporary --
Cruz: No it will become permanent. We understand from the Planning and Zone that
we would have to resubmit in 18 months to verify that. It's going on a permanent
foundation.
Nary: Okay. I guess the terms I'm hearing -- one of the concerns from the neighbors is
that, basically, you're going to be expanding the use. They are feeling like the building
that you currently have and the capacity that you have, you already overuse the parking
lot and now they feel you're impacting the neighborhood streets with parking. By
adding, essentially, another building to use as a temporary -- or as an overflow, you now
can expand the use by having more people on the site at your services. Therefore, they
are going to park even further into the subdivision and further causing a traffic problem
for these folks. That's what I was hearing, I guess. How do you address that?
Cruz: The building that we are proposing to bring in is going to be classrooms, not
going to be, necessarily, for the services themselves. We, right now, inside the present
building, it is cramped, and we need the additional space to take our youth department
out and put it in that building.
Nary: But if I heard you right, you said you currently don't exceed the capacity --
Cruz: Of the sanctuary.
Nary: That you're allowed to have.
Cruz: Right.
Nary: So now you will have that same number of people, as well as this other building
to put people in. That still says to me more people are going to come than are coming
now, because you have more space to put those bodies.
Cruz: Well, we hope so.
Nary: Sure and that's great but you're not adding any parking facilities at all to this site,
you are only adding a building without corresponding parking. I have a feeling you are
increasing your population to your service, but there isn't adequate parking currently
and now you're adding more people to it without any parking again. I guess that's what
I'm hearing and I guess I'd like for you to address that.
Cruz: In our early morning services, the very first service we have, we average about
25 people, for example. By doing this we want to continue to encourage people to
come to the first service, so we can create more room. Still, about 80 percent of our
people come to the second service. Herein is the problem, you know, with the parking.
With the addition of the second service, we plan to have that space until we are able to
expand. I mean the master site plan does call for a proposed parking lot on the lot
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October 15, 2002
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across the street, south of Spicewood, and there will be -- I think there are 65 proposed
parking places in that.
Nary: Mr. Mayor. Brad, on this -- on this increase that this building is going to cause, I
guess I'm unclear as to why parking isn't a factor. Is this parking adequate in
anticipation that more people are going to be attending at this time, so it won't be
overcrowded? Because they are saying they are overcrowded now, so --
Hawkins-Clark: Councilman Nary, Mayor, Members of the Council, the code says you
have to have one parking space for every five seats in the sanctuary. The code doesn't
address accessory buildings per se, which is -- essentially this is an accessory building.
In terms of the code, we felt like we didn't have the basis to say, you know, this is --
these are additional seats within your auditorium that justify these -- the application is all
we had to go off of, the application states it would be used for a classroom and
overflow. The classrooms -- our assumption was -- would be for those that currently
come and attend, but -- so I think that was the reason that the staff didn't say that that's
-- that parking lot, which they do show on their master plan south of Spicewood. We are
saying that when they do that, that needs to come through with another Conditional Use
Permit that's totally separate from this.
Nary: So if this were an attached addition to the building, we would consider it to be
part of the sanctuary. Therefore, then, we would be looking as to whether or not service
was being held in it and whether or not there is that seating and, therefore, in
relationship to the parking spaces is that the analysis we are talking about?
Hawkins-Clark: Right.
Nary: Okay and in this circumstance, I guess what troubles me is the use of the word
overflow, because as I look at overflow and say I don't have enough people for my
church service that can fit in this building. They can fit in the other building. They find a
way to do -- find a way to transmit to that building, so that the same -- so more people
can come and I guess the overflow to me is a concern, because I guess the use of that
term and maybe that it's the same to Mr. Cruz, it's just overflow for classes.
Cruz: Yes.
Nary: Is that correct?
Cruz: Yes, sir.
Nary: And it wasn't intended to be used as overflow and it wasn't interpreted as
overflow to the service.
Cruz: Right.
Nary: Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
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October 15, 2002
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Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: So you won't be doing any adjustments internally in your building to enlarge
your sanctuary --
Cruz: No.
De Weerd: -- as a result of this?
Cruz: No.
De Weerd: And you also had mentioned that it was -- that some of these issues were
brought to your attention at the P&Z Hearing. You didn't notice that your landscaping
was in need of some help prior to that.
Cruz: Yes, we did. Just I think that the issues that were brought forth just got us on the
stick. You know, we apologize for the bad upkeep. Part of it was our sprinkler system,
part of it was not taking proper care.
De Weerd: You mentioned that this building would look similar to the building you have
on site.
Cruz: Yes.
De Weerd: So will you be bricking it? I -- as I understood it, this was a temporary
building.
Cruz: Well, it will become -- we proposed for it to become permanent after the 18
months of this petition for permit for 18 months, and then we will reapply at that time to
make it part of the entire overall plan.
De Weerd: So perhaps in that 18 months you could prove to the neighborhoods that
you do intend to upkeep your property and the building and then you will be doing some
brick facade on this?
Cruz: I'm not sure about the brick. Primarily the painting and the trimming of the -- to
match our current building. We do have some type of brick, which we could do.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Corrie: Is this the same building that's out there now that has the television disk or that
dish, is that --
Cruz: We removed it. It's gone.
Corrie: The dish is gone, but it's the same building that's going to be still there?
Cruz: The storage shed, yes.
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October 15, 2002
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Corrie: Okay. I think that the minister -- correct. Would you like to testify here on this --
are you part of this church? Okay. Would you like to come up and maybe you can help
here a little bit. Thank you.
Slider: My name is Gordon Slider. I reside at 2162 East Katelyn Drive, Meridian, Idaho.
Corrie: Is the testimony you're about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
the truth, so help you God?
Slider: It is.
Corrie: Okay.
Slider: The question was is this the same building that had the satellite dish. No, it is
not. That was a camper trailer. That has been removed. It's been gone for some
months.
Corrie: Okay. Okay. You understand that the neighbors are a little bit uptight about
some landscaping and everything else.
Slider: We learned that at the P&Z Meeting, yes, and we have taken some steps
already to rectify that. We mentioned the sprinkler system was fixed. Put out some
weed control for the dandelions, done some work on the bushes and the landscaping.
Corrie: Okay. Any other questions?
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I guess I'm a little -- I'm still a little concerned when neighbors are saying
currently the volume of people there is not adequately served by the parking and all
these people are parking in their neighborhood. If this building is attached to your
current building, you would be required to enhance your parking.
Slider: No.
Hawkins-Clark: I guess I'm unsure as to why -- why it's going to be really any different
because it's not attached to the building.
Slider: There is two parts to the answer to your question. First of all, my understanding
is that the parking requirements are based on the number of seating capacity in the
sanctuary, which is the largest room in the building, and my understanding is that we
exceeded that when we built the building in the first place. Secondly, the intended use
for this is a youth classroom center, so it's not going to really appreciably increase car
traffic, because these are kids that are either coming in on the church van or their
parents are bringing them or something like that. There may be some, but not as much,
as if it were an adult facility. My guess is that there is enough leeway in the present
parking -- frankly, I haven't done the research on this, but my guess is there is enough
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October 15, 2002
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leeway in the present parking lot to cover the expanded -- well, it wouldn't make any
difference anyway, because that's based on the sanctuary and our sanctuary isn't
changing.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I do understand Council Member Nary's concern. The parking, you know,
disregarding that our ordinance is all based on the sanctuary side, you admit that there
is great overflow, there is a parking issue, and that's kind of a mixed blessing right? It
means your church is growing, but there needs to be a solution to your parking issue. I
know other churches that are growing by leaps and bounds are finding parking
solutions, so they don't impact their neighbors and they continue to be a good neighbor.
One church is having them park down the road and they are using their church bus to
bus the people over to the church, so they don't have that kind of impact on the
neighboring subdivision. There are some things that maybe your church can be doing
in response. One of those is paving the lot across the street and providing the parking
on site, as you have the ability. We all know that costs money and -- but it does look
like you need to find a solution to the parking issue, so you can be a good neighbor.
Slider: You're all looking at something on your computers. Do you have photos there?
Is that what you're looking at? Of the parking lot? Okay. I have never even seen these
photos, but I -- it was brought out last time that there were people parking across the
street on an undeveloped piece of ground. That was without my knowledge and I have
since addressed that on Sunday mornings that that's not allowed, we cannot do that.
The reason that our drawings show the parking lot across the street is because that's
our next step. That's what we want to do and so, as soon as we are able to raise
money to do that, we will do that. We have no desire to not comply with city regulations
or to be a bad neighbor. That's not why we are here.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: The pictures we are looking at are the ones that were submitted by your church
with your application.
Slider: Okay. I thought maybe you had pictures of cars parked all over the place or
something. Okay.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: If I may ask a question of Pastor Slider. Would 18 months be enough time for
you to include the parking lot as part of the building connection?
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October 15, 2002
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Slider: I don't know that I'm prepared to stand here and make a commitment. It
certainly sounds like a goal worth aiming at. I mean to take that back from the City
Council as an encouragement, I think that carries some weight. There was some
mention before of an electrical pedestal that was put on the piece of ground across the
street. We got city permission to do that and the thought was that we would try to at
least get that into grass, as opposed to the weeds that are there right now so that it
would clean it up a little bit. We thought to do that we would need water and electricity
for a sprinkler system, that was the whole point of doing that. Under the amount of
money we have got right now on this project, if we have money, which I'm not sure we
will now, but if we do, that's our intention, because we want to clean it up, so --
Nichols: Mr. Mayor?
Bird: Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, just a reminder. This is a Conditional Use
Permit application and if there are circumstances surrounding a development, which
create an impact upon a neighborhood. You do have the ability to impose some
conditions, as part of the approval, to mitigate any effects that might already exist or be
perhaps exacerbated by the development. If I understand the application correctly, the
church has to wait 18 months after the -- Brad, I guess this is a question to you. Does
the church have to wait 18 months after the home is on a permanent foundation in order
to get some kind of final approval for us to decree it as a permanent fixture or -- I'm not
quite sure where the 18 months comes from.
Hawkins-Clark: Right. Mr. Nichols, Mayor, Members of the Council, I believe Pastor
Cruz was a little bit off. The condition that we have included in our report is the
standard ordinance, just that this permit expires after 18 months. It's not that they have
18 months on which to put the manufactured home there and then there is some other
approval process. It's simply that if, after 18 months, the building project is not begun,
then the permanent expires and they would have to start again.
Corrie: Is that your understanding?
Slider: I'm learning it.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Brad, have there been -- hasn't there been some situations where we have had
to place time limits on a Conditional Use Permit, though, and have the applicant come
back to reapply to maintain it? I'm thinking -- I recall that we have -- and I can't recall if
it was when I was on the Planning and Zoning Commission or here. We had an issue
similar to this, with some portable types of buildings on the -- the church that's on
Linder, the Assembly of God Church. They had to come back to ask to make it
permanent or not have anymore time restrictions to do that and that's just what rings a
bell to me and so I guess my question is how do we place some time restrictions to see
that some of these issues -- or some of those types of concerns are being addressed?
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October 15, 2002
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Hawkins-Clark: Councilman Nary, that's the one example I was thinking of, was they
also had portable buildings on the south end of their project there on Linder Road and
they were required to come back after one year, but I think it was more like three years,
it didn't go. Yes, certainly, I mean the -- and we have added other clauses that says,
you know, this permit going to be inspected upon ten days notification to the permit
holder. That's also standard ordinance. We would, as a department, certainly track any
such condition that the Council would want to place.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I believe that was a temporary building they had come back -- they did not -- it
was a different application than what this is.
Hawkins-Clark: That's true. This is a permanent foundation.
Bird: They had temporary removal buildings and they wanted -- then they would come
back to us after they wanted to put the permanent foundation.
Hawkins-Clark: Thank you. Yes. That is a difference. Yes.
Bird: Different application. Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Brad, I believe that on these conditions, we could -- and I understand that it costs,
like Mrs. de Weerd said, that the cost of asphalt and a parking lot, isn't cheap. I'm sure
the neighbors would be happy if you would put it in grass or something. I have seen
people park on grass, you know, on Sunday mornings or something. I have a church
across from me that has parking on the grass once in awhile when they get busy and --
instead of parking on the street, so -- I think that something should be done with that
parking lot as fast as possible to keep -- it's not only for the city, it is a big safety issue to
have parking on both sides of the street. We still don't want to discourage the church
from building and drawing in patrons, so -- but I think there is something that maybe we
could, if you so desired, we could put something on the parking, a condition on the --
Corrie: Okay. Any other questions?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Okay. Thank you. Council, do you have any other questions on the Public
Hearing?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: I'll entertain a motion to close the Public Hearing on CUP 02-023.
Bird: So moved.
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October 15, 2002
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McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded to close the Public Hearing on request for
Conditional Use Permit for Treasure Valley Worship Center. All those in favor say aye.
All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Corrie: Discussion?
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: Since the cat seems to have gotten everybody's tongue up here, I'll start. I
do believe that many of our churches are bursting at the seams and trying to
accommodate their congregations. In the meantime, the neighbors' concerns are very
legitimate and I hate to try and legislate trying to be a good neighbor, but -- and I do
believe the church desires to be that good neighbor. In the meantime, there is a safety
issue. It's not good to have the type of parking issues in the neighborhood and have
that kind of impact. I would be in support of -- with this Conditional Use Permit, putting
some sort of an added requirement to address the parking issue and a temporary
nature and perhaps give a time frame that the church could use as a goal to address it
on a more permanent basis. Grass the parking across the street and then within a
certain length of time to asphalt it up to City Code. It is apparent that our ordinance is
somewhat antiquated as far as the size of the sanctuary, because many churches are
overflowing with their parking, many of them are finding temporary solutions to address
that, without us having to ask them to do that. I think in this case it seems reasonable to
do so.
Corrie: Further discussion?
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I guess I would concur with Councilwoman de Weerd. I think what I heard the
neighbors saying was that they didn't have -- I didn't hear an objection to this building in
itself, that the building in itself wasn't compatible. What I heard was that the concern of
the neighbors is the growth of this church, which this building is a part of, is going to
impact their neighborhood. They are already being impacted now and that by adding
this space, I think it's not unreasonable from the neighbors' perspective to think that
adding this space is going to increase the people that are coming there. It may be
intended to be used as a classroom and it's not intended to be used as an overflow
sanctuary. It's still going to increase the amount of people, because you will have more
space to put them and so you will be able to do that. They may not all come in cars or
drive themselves there, but some of them will. I think their concerns are very
reasonable and very legitimate. I didn't hear any other concerns that the building itself
wouldn't be compatible, if you are compliant with the conditions that are met of having
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October 15, 2002
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that structure on the property -- although I did hear Mr. Rountree's concerns that there
aren't other manufactured homes in that particular area. I think that was the intent of
the Planning and Zoning Commission in requiring it to be made to match the building,
so that it wouldn't resemble simply another manufactured home, but that it look more
like an accessory building on the property. I guess what I would want to fashion -- and
I'm going to, once again, ask Mr. Nichols to probably help us with the wording, but I
think what I was hearing is that we would like to see, as a condition, that there be off-
site parking available within a fairly reasonable amount of time. Then you have some
adequate time to provide simply in terms of grass or something like that to get rid of the
weeds and provide that -- and I recognize the time of year we are at it's not very
reasonable to plant grass very easily right now, but some sort of parking facility off site
within I guess six months -- is that a reasonable -- is that a reasonable amount of time,
Council? I guess the other concern was that there be a more permanent parking facility
off site within, again, a reasonable amount of time, both for the church, as well as the
neighbors. I did see the pastor sort of be a little tentative at 18 months, but I guess I
was looking at something like 24 months that there be something more permanent,
again, for adequate parking. It isn't just a lot with grass on it, that eventually there is
going to be a parking lot, which I think is their desire anyway, but -- is that what you
were thinking or something different than that?
De Weerd: No I would agree with that. Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I guess because of the season we are going into, six months may not be
practical, unless they planted grass tomorrow, you're not going to park on it for a good
period of time. You may want to extend that, even considering how long it would be
before you could park on it. I would strongly encourage the church to try and find a
temporary solution utilizing the bus that you have to help bus from another site, and off-
site location, like some of these other churches are doing. That might also help. I do
know parking will continue to be an issue and as you get more room inside your main
building, you will grow, and I'm sure that's what you're hoping you will do, too. It will
continue to be an issue.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I guess what I'm looking at is that what we would be requesting in the Findings of
st
Facts within -- we usually get them in a couple of weeks. From the 1 of November, six
st
months is the 1 of May. What I -- I guess what I was proposing is -- what I was
considering proposing is that they provide off-site parking within the next six months. I
don't care if it's across the street or you have to bus people to the parking lot at
Albertson's and get a shared parking arrangement with Albertson's and within six
months they have off-site parking. If you can grade that lot and get it adequate for
st
parking on it within six months, by the 1 of May, that's fine. Or there has to be some
other arrangement for a period of time if you can get them there. Again, I guess I don't
st
want to guess at months, I'm thinking the 1 of May is after the spring, but that should
be adequate time to make that lot usable for parking and, if not, then they might have to
Meridian City Council
October 15, 2002
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find some other facility off-site. That within 24 months that they have permanent
parking facilities off site, so that there is some time for temporary, as well as give them
adequate time to do that. Does that sound reasonable?
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Well, I agree with you, they are not enlarging the seating capacity of the
sanctuary. I agree that this is going to be for youth and there is going to be some more
cars show up. I don't -- in other words, you want to override our ordinance that states
how many parking and set a precedent of doing this, because there is very few
churches, public buildings, that hasn't been built in the last four or five years that meets
the parking requirements. I agree with you guys, I agree 100 percent. I wish they had
the money to go out and asphalt the strip right across in their own deal and that would
solve a lot of it. We are going against an ordinance that there is a whole of other --
there are a whole lot of other buildings that in the last couple, three years have come
before us for CUPs with the same problem and we haven't put stipulations on it.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I guess I disagree. I don't think we are going against the ordinance. I mean I
think, as Mr. Nichols said, it's a Conditional Use Permit. We are trying to abate the
issues that we perceive are going to be impacted to the neighborhoods based on this
use and if this was a gym, we wouldn't think once. If this were a gym they were going to
have, we would anticipate there would be more people that would come to that facility. I
have a hard time believing that if they expand their classroom facility, that it won't bring
more people to that facility at that time. I mean I recognize we are trying to do all these
other things to encourage different times of services and things like that, but they are
expanding the use of the property and by expanding the use of the property, they are
impacting the neighborhood. If we are not requiring, under our ordinance required
seating in relation to parking, which I think seems a little antiquated to me anyway, but,
secondarily, we are really not doing anything different than we would on any other CUP.
When you expand your use and you perceive that expansion is going to impact the
neighbors, you attempt to abate that and what we are going for abatement is to provide
parking, because the primary concern we have heard from neighbors is their use
already impacts them in parking. By expanding it, they expect it to impact it more.
Again, it's just providing some off-site parking to meet that expanded use and if they can
provide it on property they own, all the better for them. If they can't provide it on
property they own, then they may have to find some alternatives, as some other
churches have done, by providing -- getting a shared parking arrangement, if they need
to provide transportation if it's not close enough to get there. That's, again, something
they can work out, but we are giving them six months to figure out what's the best way
to work for them to do that. I don't think we are going against the ordinance. I think
what we are simply saying is that the use here is expanded and they are already
bursting at the seams and having an impact now, so, therefore, by doing this they are
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October 15, 2002
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going to do it even more, they are going to have to find something a little bit better than
what they are doing now.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: As I understand, this building is more or less a classroom for younger -- the
children and adults -- or young people. It's a Sunday school, I take it, and then they all
go back the sanctuary for the service. They are not really expanding, they are just --
they are getting -- providing some classrooms for Sunday school, the same as
everybody. I mean I'm not disagreeing with you getting that, I'm just saying that they
are not expanding, even though they are bringing this building in -- every church hopes
to expand their membership, but this, as I understood it, is a classroom facility for their
young people to have their Sunday school.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I guess at our church there are Sunday school classes that are scheduled
while the sanctuary is -- while there is services going as well and where you have a
Sunday school, you will have more people going at the same time. I believe what our
attorney has brought forth is we have an opportunity with the CUP type of situation, to
look at how our ordinances are working and impacting the surrounding neighborhood or
working for the current applicant themselves. We do have a negative impact in the
surrounding property, they are expanding, even though they are not expanding per our
parking ordinance by the sanctuary, there is a parking issue. We can take a look at our
parking ordinance and see if there is reason to change that, but I hate to do that, too,
because what church can afford massive parking when they are building a new building
to accommodate a congregation that they may not have to begin with either. You're
almost going overboard in that regard. The CUP process gives us some flexibility to
look at situations on an individual basis and the democratic process here is to have the
neighbors come and testify and share what these impacts may have or are currently
having that we have an opportunity to address in placing some additional conditions in
the CUP process. I don't think that we are asking for too much more. I would believe
there would be a goal of the church to provide parking or an alternate, so that their
congregation is not inconvenienced either. I just see this as a win situation for everyone
to be able to expand their facility, look at additional classrooms, and address some of
the issues with the neighbors as well. I don't think we are compromising our
ordinances.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I think probably everybody has said what they wanted to say. I guess I would
move that we approve CUP 02-023, request for a Conditional Use Permit to place a
Class A manufactured home on a permanent foundation in an L-O zone for the
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October 15, 2002
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Treasure Valley Worship Center by Treasure Valley Worship, 50 West Spicewood
Drive, to include all staff comments and conditions by the Planning and Zoning
Commission. With the additional condition that the Treasure Valley Worship Center will
provide off-site parking facilities by May 1, 2003 for their Sunday services and that they
provide permanent parking -- it can be temporary -- that they provide permanent parking
facilities within 24 months of the issuance of this permit. I think we need the attorney to
prepare the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision and Order.
Bird: I'd second that, but do you want to include brick on the new building?
Nary: I think the -- well, I guess the issue that I see from the recommendation of the
Planning and Zoning is that they required it to be -- I guess I don't know that brick is --
Bird: No they required it to be painted to look like --
Nary: Painted to look the same. I guess I have a hard time trying to decide to tell them
to put brick on the building. We want them to comply and to match the other building.
Bird: I agree with you. I second --
Nary: Yes. I don't know whether we want to --
Bird: I don't have any problem with that.
Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded. Any further discussion? The motion is
for approval, with all staff comments, with the conditions stated by the motion. Okay.
Hearing none, roll call vote, Mr. Berg.
Roll call vote: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; DeWeerd, aye; Bird, aye.
Corrie: Okay. All ayes. Motion for Conditional Use Permit, staff comments, and
conditions, by the motion is passed.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Item 10. Public Hearing: CUP 02-024
Request for a Conditional Use Permit
proposing two buildings with drive-thru windows and two buildings on
Silverstone Corporate Center
recorded lot in a C-C zone for by The
Sundance Company – southeast corner of East Overland Road and South
Eagle Road:
Corrie: Item Number 10 is a Public Hearing. This is a request for Conditional Use
Permit for proposed two buildings with drive-thru windows and two buildings on
recorded lot in a C-C zone for Silverstone Corporate Center by the Sundance Company,
southeast corner of East Overland Road and South Eagle Road. At this time, I will open
the Public Hearing and staff comments, please.
Hawkins-Clark: Thank you, Mayor, Members of the Council. I'm sure you're well aware
of where Silverstone Subdivision is. You have had numerous applications before this
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October 15, 2002
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body before. Again, I wish I could just plot up there our map. It's kind of frustrating we
don't have our tools here, but basically this is up in the -- up in the very left -- up in the
very northwest corner of their project, at the southeast corner of the intersection of
Eagle and Overland Road. They have that nice new sign that has the fountain there,
that's constructed today, this would just be right immediately behind that. The
development agreement that Silverstone -- that Sundance Company had does require
that they have a Conditional Use Permit for all drive-thrus. They are proposing here two
drive-thrus on a single lot. The buildings would share the same architectural design
concept, even though they are different -- different uses, I believe, as you saw one is
proposed to have a TCBY and there is a credit union also. Planning and Zoning
th
Commission did recommend approval. September 10 is the date of their
recommendation, so we are passing that on. I believe the only change that was made
from staff was there are no recommended conditions on the hours of operation. The
Planning and Zoning Commission removed that and they added the Requirement
Number 6, which is on Page 2 that says they have to execute a Cross-Access
Agreement between the lots. They are encroaching a little bit into an adjacent lot in
order to access these drive-thrus, so we ask that they have a Cross-Access Agreement
there. Other than that, I believe all the conditions are correct and that's all I have.
Corrie: Any questions of staff?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Okay. This is a Public Hearing and we'd like to hear from the developer or their
representative. Is the testimony you're about to give the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Larsen: It is.
Corrie: Name and address, please.
Larsen: Cornell Larsen, my address is 210 Murray Street in Garden City. I'm here
tonight representing the developer. We did concur with the conditions that the Planning
and Zoning had approved for this project. We did have a request from the people that
would occupy the credit union and we forwarded that onto Dave McKinnon, I believe,
and staff and I will give you a copy of the letter that they sent to you. This is from
Westmark Credit Union and they had requested that they be able to have two drive-in
window facilities at the one building. Originally, we had proposed one drive-in facility.
This came up as a result of their board of directors meeting that was held on September
th
28 and we talked to staff a little bit about it. I don't think they really had a problem with
it, other than that the P&Z didn't have the opportunity to look at two drive-in windows at
that second building. It's our intent tonight that we try to gain the approval, so we can at
least get the Moxie Java, TCBY building going. If we needed to go back and do a
modification or meet in a work session with P&Z to review the extra drive-in window, we
would certainly be willing to do that. I don't know whether you had in your packet the
drawings that showed how that building might be modified to accommodate the other
drive-in, but I have those here with me, if you'd like to see those. Other than that, we
didn't have any concerns. We are willing to move forward with the project and I would
be happy to answer any questions.
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October 15, 2002
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Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Cornell, these two drive-thrus, they are just -- they are going the same way and
everything, they have just got two islands right?
Larsen: Yes. They would just have two islands. Yes.
Bird: Yes.
Larsen: What happened is we initially submitted it with one window that was adjacent to
the building without a canopy over it? When the board of directors met, realizing what
they thought the volumes might be in the Meridian area, they said it would be nice if
they could reduce the size of the building a little bit and had the extra drive-in facility that
would allow them to have a little more flexibility in the future. I told them that they
needed to write a letter and request that of City Council, since we had already gone
through the P&Z Hearing at the time we found out. That's what the letter is that was
handed to you, the original copy. It's kind of a little bit after the fact and if we need to do
something to facilitate the approval of that second window, we will, but we also need to
get this TCBY-Moxie Java building moving along, too, so --
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: It isn't a second window it's a second island, isn't it?
Larsen: Yes. It's a second island.
Corrie: I was going to say, it's not another window.
Bird: It's not another window it's just --
Corrie: You would have to go back to P&Z for that.
Bird: The drive-thru is --
Larsen: It's a remote teller unit, basically. This company is pretty excited to be coming
to Meridian. They are expanding from pretty much the eastern part of the state. They
are excited to be here, so --
Corrie: Good. Any other questions?
Larsen: Also I would like to add one thing, if I might.
Corrie: Sorry. Go ahead.
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October 15, 2002
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Larsen: Also, the lot that's kind of kitty-corner to this lot on Overland Road has been
sold to Albertson's Credit Union and they will be in before you shortly with an application
on that facility.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I guess just a question for Brad. I mean this is just different than what was
reviewed by the Planning and Zoning, although it's a fairly minor modification to it. Do
you think it needs to go back to the Commission, at least that portion of this request, or
do you think it's adequate for us to be able to proceed on that without it?
Hawkins-Clark: Councilman Nary, Mayor, Members of the Council, I had not personally
had a chance to review it and Dave McKinnon didn't talk to me about Cornell's letter, but
it appears that the added lane -- it's on the same elevation -- it's on the same side of the
building, the configuration of the parking doesn't appear to be impacted.
Nary: And I also I did hear Mr. Larsen say that they were actually going to make the
building smaller to compensate for this canopy is that correct?
Hawkins-Clark: Correct.
Nary: So I guess my only concern would be that we are going to approve something
that we have a revised site plan, so that we know exactly what it is we have approved,
but other than that --
Hawkins-Clark: I think it's minor enough that the Planning and Zoning Commission
would not feel that it's a substantial change, so --
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I just had one more question. I didn't get a chance to look at the minutes, but
was the reason they took the hours of operation out of these windows was because
there was no neighbors?
Larsen: No it was actually a request that we modify them a little bit and the more they
discussed it, I believe their concern was that it may end up being a 24-hour site for
coffee service in the future as the area develops. Since there was no residential
adjacent to it, that they felt like that it was appropriate to remove the hour restriction.
Corrie: Any other questions?
Bird: I have none.
Meridian City Council
October 15, 2002
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41
Corrie: Thank you. Is there anybody from the audience that would like to give
testimony at this time? Hearing none, Council, any further discussion in the Public
Hearing?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Hearing none, I will entertain a motion to close the Public Hearing on the
request for a Conditional Use Permit for Silverstone Corporate Center.
Bird: So moved.
McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Motion made and second. All those in favor say aye? All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Corrie: Discussion on the request?
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I, for one, agree with Brad, that I don't think adding another island -- they are not
adding basically another drive-thru. They are just adding another island, which I think is
helpful, it's going to move people through a little faster. I don't think that -- I don't think
the Planning and Zoning Commission would have anymore problem than we had. I
think it's a very good development, a nice location for it, so I don't see any reason why
we can't approve the two drive-ups -- or two islands.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: Just a question for staff. When an application comes in and they have
shown kind of a footprint of what they have and that sort of thing, you have the flexibility
to approve minor modifications that would be smaller in size, but not have to change a
Preliminary Plat or a CUP is that not correct?
Hawkins-Clark: That's correct. We kind of use the 10 percent rule, that if it's 10 percent
more -- greater than 10 percent more, then we would probably send it back, on either
square footage or height or parking -- you know, whatever the standard is that you're
talking about. That comes out of the Planned Development Ordinance, but we have
applied that, more or less, to Conditional Use Permits and have used that internally, so
that if there are modifications, that we would not send them back to you if it falls within
that kind of ten percent change.
Meridian City Council
October 15, 2002
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De Weerd: Do you feel comfortable of -- that we would approve this with their drawing
that they submitted tonight showing the additional lane for the drive-thru, that you can
deal with that at your level?
Hawkins-Clark: Yes.
De Weerd: Okay.
Corrie: Any further discussion?
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Without any further discussion, I would move that we approval the Conditional
Use Permit for proposed two buildings with drive-thru windows and two buildings on
recorded lot in a C-C zone for Silverstone Corporate Center by the Sundance Company,
southeast corner of East Overland Road and South Eagle Road. To include staff's
comments, recommendations, and also to allow at the building designated as a credit
union, to allow another island, instead of one island, they would have two islands for
deposit and for the attorney to draw up the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law
and Decision of Order.
Nary: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made for approval of the request for Conditional Use
Permit for Silverstone Corporate Center. Any further discussion? Okay. Hearing none,
roll call vote, Mr. Berg.
Roll call vote: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; DeWeerd, aye; Bird, aye.
Corrie: All ayes. Motion is approved.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 11. Public Hearing: AZ 02-019
Request for annexation and zoning of 5.01
Drawbridge Subdivision
acres from RUT to R-3 zones for proposed by
Pinnacle Engineers, Inc. – 4365 North Ten Mile Road:
Item 12. Public Hearing: PP 02-015
Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 9
building lots and 4 other lots on 5.01 acres in a proposed R-3 zone for
Drawbridge Subdivision
proposed by Pinnacle Engineers, Inc.– 4365
North Ten Mile Road:
Corrie: Item Numbers 11 and Number 12 is a Public Hearing on a request for
annexation and zoning of 5.01 acres from RUT to an R-3 zone for proposed Drawbridge
Subdivision by Pinnacle Engineers, 4365 North Ten Mile Road. Item Number 12 is a
request for Preliminary Plat approval of nine building lots and four other lots on the 5.01
acres as a proposed R-3 zone for the proposed Drawbridge Subdivision by Pinnacle
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October 15, 2002
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Engineers. At this time, I will open both Public Hearings and invite staff's comments
first.
Hawkins-Clark: Thank you, Mayor, Members of the Council. On Item Number 11, the
annexation and zoning request, the applicant did originally propose an R-2 zone. They
had generally conforming to our minimum lot size, the 18,000 square feet is the
minimum lot size for an R-2. However, there was just a couple lots that were going to
be under that in order for them to comply with some other conditions that we had, so
staff had recommended the R-3 zone, though it did not significantly impact the size of
those lots, I mean they do still have fairly sizable lots out there. I think that's the main
comment I would have on Item Number 11, the agenda does reflect that R-3, although
originally they applied for R-2. They did agree -- and the Planning and Zoning
Commission recommended approval of the R-3. Item Number 12 regarding the
Preliminary Plat, the subdivision has, again, the nine building lots and there are now
four lots -- originally they had shown three, but they have added a common lot to the
south. The existing parcel is five -- just over five acres. It's immediately across Ten
Mile Road from Bridgetower Crossing. It would be the office complex part of
Bridgetower crossing. If you remember, they had some offices on the other -- on the
east side of Ten Mile. This would be on the west side of Ten Mile. They had a gross
density of about 1.8 units per acre. They have approximately two percent open space
in the subdivision. The ordinance requires anything over five acres to have five percent
open space, but by the time you take off their required dedication of right of way, then
they drop under the five acres, then they don't have to meet that five percent open
space requirement that we have. That was the reason for that. They are applied -- they
did apply prior to adoption of the 2002 Comprehensive Plan. The 1993 Comprehensive
Plan showed that there is an ag-rural residential, so the 1.8 density staff felt was
appropriate out there for -- to meet that rural residential classification. The plat itself, as
you have in your packets, is fairly straightforward. They have a single point of access
there off of Ten Mile Road. The recommendation from the Planning and Zoning
Commission, I'd like to just hit three items on that. On Page 2, Item Number 4, is --
deals with the fencing around the subdivision and this did get quite a bit of discussion at
the Planning and Zoning Commission. Currently the five-acre parcel does have a three-
rail vinyl fence that the pictures should show that it's completely around the project.
There was some discussion, concerns about not having a solid fence and some of the
domestic animals that are around the area, you know, may -- you know, may not be
th
contained right. We did receive a letter dated September 26 from Mr. Richard
Kertchner, who was one of the property owners that had a fence concern, so you should
have received that. Essentially, they have said that they have changed their minds they
don't have a problem with the fencing as it currently is today. At least that property
owner has withdrawn the concern and the three-rail vinyl fence would work for him.
Then Item Number 4, then, I'd just recommend striking the last sentence that says a
solid fence shall be required around the perimeter. Item Number 10 on Page 3 says
that they have to submit a revised plat prior to the meeting. They have already done
that, so I think that condition should be struck, since they have already complied with
that. Now we have received all of the additional information that we requested from
Clint Boyle, who is representing the applicant and it appears that all the application
information is correct. We just need to get that in the public record to make sure it
replaces their original application and I think that's all I have.
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October 15, 2002
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Nichols: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Brad, if we could have the date for that plat, the revised one, so we can make
sure we get it correct. The plan.
Hawkins-Clark: Sure. That's dated September 13, 2002.
Corrie: Okay. Is the representative of the subdivision here? Is the testimony you're
about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Boyle: It is.
Corrie: Name and address, please.
Boyle: Clint Boyle with Pinnacle Engineers, 1252 West Executive Drive in Boise, Idaho.
Mayor and City Council Members, it's been a pleasure to be in front of you this evening
to present a project that we are excited about. It's something that's somewhat different
from the majority of the projects I think that the city has seen recently proposed within
the area and what we are proposing here is a development coming into the city that
would essentially be a -- what we feel is a large lot development for an urban style
development. The majority of the lots exceed 18,000 square feet. There are two lots
that are over 16,000 square feet that represent the smallest lot in the subdivision as far
as buildable lots. I'm going to back up just a minute. As far as the annexation and
zoning on this and the Comprehensive Plan, originally when we met with city staff, at
that particular point in time we were looking at the '93 Comprehensive Plan. This was
submitted under that Comprehensive Plan, but so that Council knows, at the time, as
you're aware, the current adopted plan was in the process of going through Public
Hearings. When we met with city staff, the area was still designated as very low density
residential, so we took off with plans and got underway with this project. Subsequent to
that, I think you guys came up with the WWTP, Wastewater Treatment Plant
designation on the site, but we weren't striving to pull a fast one on the city, we were
basing it on the information that we had at the time and then things changed there. Just
so you are aware, even based on the current adopted plan, this particular parcel is -- if
not the furthest, one of the furthest parcels away from the sewer treatment plant, based
on that new WTTP designation. As far as the transition for this subdivision, the
currently adopted Comprehensive Plan now designates the area north of us as a
medium density development area. This development essentially provides a transition
from some of the larger lots -- we have a one-acre lot, there is some -- a mixture of five
area and 10 acre lots that are south of us. Basically, we are transitioning from some of
the larger style lots into these lots that are between a third and half acre and then into
what you will essentially see some day as the probably more urban style development
to the north. I think Brad summed it up fairly well. Originally, we came in with an R-2
zone, which requires a minimum lot size of 18,000 square feet. Subsequent to that
original application, we agreed with the staff comments and revised that to an R-3. One
of the comments from staff that changed that was originally the Elk Bugle Lane, which is
a private road easement that sits south of this site, a small portion of that clips the
southwest corner of our site, of that existing easement. The staff felt that that would be
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October 15, 2002
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more appropriately designated as a common lot, just so it was clear that that wasn't a
portion of that lot owner's -- the easement was in effect and then there wouldn't be any
confusion with that lot owner on where his fencing the property line would lie. We
revised that and, essentially, that's why it now is in front of you with an R-3 request.
The only reason for the R-3 is because of the two lots that are now 16,000 square feet
in size. Outside of that, I believe that it meets all the requirements of an R-2 zone,
actually. With that said, the development -- there was some discussion with the
neighbors at the Planning and Zoning Commission regarding the fence and I'd like to
just speak to that briefly here. The existing site has a three-rail vinyl fence around the
majority of the existing site. The developer wants to keep this existing three-rail vinyl
fence, and his intention is that this subdivision would have a rural type of feeling to it.
Basically, it's a nice fence, obviously, vinyl fences weather better than cedar fences and
some of the other fencing, it provides a nice open atmosphere. If you look at the
surrounding properties -- and I don't know what pictures you have in front of you. I do
have some pictures if you would like to see them. They were submitted with the
application, so, hopefully, you have them, but the property that is west of our site is a
five acre parcel, it has a home on it, essentially there is no fencing around his perimeter,
because he wanted an open field out there. He has some vinyl fencing that is three or
four feet tall around a small area of what I would deem as his backyard, probably to
keep kids or pets in there. That particular property owner did not object to the existing
fence. He was favorable to the existing three-rail vinyl fence. The property owners to
the south, there was a property owner there, Mr. Kertchner that originally had indicated
that he wanted a solid fence there. Subsequent to the meeting, he changed his mind on
that and, again, in the letter you have received he supports the existing three-rail vinyl
fence. The issue that came up at the meeting was what happens if livestock or animals
get into that fencing from their property and from these people's properties. As far as
the livestock goes, if you look at the property that are south of the site, their homes and
their yards are essentially adjacent to this project, with Elk Bugle in between. Any
animals that they have are south of their homes, so if any livestock from the larger
parcels to the south of us were get into our fence, they crossed the people's yards,
crossed Elk Bugle Lane, and then into the fence. Essentially, they will probably have a
bigger problem than worrying about their animals getting through our fence, because by
that time they will have grazed across their lawns, gardens, and everything else to get
over to our site. He backed off from his position. Again, we are requesting that the
existing three-rail fence be allowed to stay in place. With that, I think Brad summed up
everything else on the project and I will entertain any questions that the Council has and
would request your approval on it. Thank you very much.
Corrie: Any questions?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Okay. Thank you.
Boyle: Thank you.
Corrie: Is there anyone one else from the audience that would like to issue testimony at
this time? Okay. Is the testimony you're about to give the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help you God?
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Johnson: I do.
Corrie: Name and address, please.
Johnson: I'm Frank Johnson. I live at 4210 West Ustick Road and I have a main ditch
that comes in right at the front of that property. It's not only my ditch, but there is about
four or five others that's involved with that and I wondered what provisions they are
going to make on dividing the water and if they are going to have a pressurized
irrigation system.
Corrie: Okay. Thank you, Frank. Thank you. You can answer the question for --
Boyle: Again, Clint Boyle, Pinnacle Engineers. Mr. Johnson will continue to receive the
water that he's entitled to. There are existing irrigation facilities that run along the
frontage, along Ten Mile Road. Those facilities, per standard requirement with ACHD,
will need to be tiled and relocated out of the right-of-way area, so we will compact and
fill the existing ditch. In its place it will be rerouted onto our property across the
frontage, be tiled, and the same flows that they have received will still be there. This
subdivision does propose a pressure irrigation system and the site does have water
rights to this site that are available for that system, but as far as the existing irrigation
water and flows, those will be preserved and retained, outside of some irrigation
relocation and tiling per ordinance provision. Thank you.
Corrie: Okay. Council, any other questions? Is that it? Okay.
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
Corrie: I will entertain a motion to close the Public Hearing on Items 11 and 12.
De Weerd: So moved.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: All in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Corrie: Discussion on Item Number 11, annexation and zoning.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I move we approve the request for annexation and zoning of 5.01 acres
from RUT to R-3 zones for the proposed Drawbridge Subdivision and to include all staff
comments and ask the attorney to draw up the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of
Law and Decision of Order.
McCandless: Second.
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Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded. Any further discussion? Okay.
Hearing none, roll call vote, Mr. Berg.
Roll call vote: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; DeWeerd, aye; Bird, aye.
Corrie: All ayes. Motion carried on the annexation and zoning.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Corrie: Now for the request for Preliminary Plat.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: Staff has noted some changes and I don't know if I'm missing it, but I don't
have P&Z's recommendation in my packet, so it would be blind approval. I do note that
on Page 2, Item 4, needs -- something to do with the fencing. Page 3, Item 10, needs
to be deleted and we need to reference the date of the map. That's about all I have
written down. Well, it looks like I followed Brad's direction very well, then. Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I move we approved the request for Preliminary Plat approval of nine
building lots and four other lots on 5.01 acres in a proposed R-3 zone for Drawbridge
Subdivision. To make the changes to the Planning and Zoning recommendation, Page
2, Item 4, to strike the solid fencing requirement on Page 3, Number 10, to delete that
item, and also to reflect the plat date of September 13, 2002 and to ask the attorney to
draw up Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision of Order. That's it.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded to approve the Preliminary Plat,
according to the motion. Any further discussion? Roll call vote, Mr. Berg.
Roll call vote: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; DeWeerd, aye; Bird, aye.
Corrie: All ayes motion is carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I would like to make a comment that it's refreshing to see something other
than the standard 8,000 square foot lot and this is double that. I thought when I found
my 14,000 square foot lot it was a rarity in Meridian. It's kind of nice to see a choice out
there. I appreciate seeing something different than what we have been seeing.
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Corrie: Okay. With that, it closes the agenda. I will entertain a motion for adjournment.
De Weerd: So moved.
McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Motion made and seconded to adjourn. All those in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Corrie: Close the meeting at 9:15 Thank you.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:15 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
APPROVED:
/ /
ROBERT D. CORRIE, MAYOR DATE
ATTESTED:
WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., CITY CLERK