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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2002 10-22 Pre Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting October 22, 2002 The Pre-Council Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:00 P.M. on October 22, 2002, by Mayor Robert Corrie. Members Present: Robert Corrie, Cherie McCandless, Bill Nary, Tammy de Weerd, and Keith Bird. Others Present: Bill Nichols, Gary Smith, Mike Worley, Rick Clinton, Leslie Howard, Ken Bowers and Will Berg. Item 1. Roll-call Attendance: X Tammy de Weerd X Bill Nary X Cherie McCandless X Keith Bird X Mayor Robert Corrie Corrie: I will open the Pre-Council Meeting Tuesday, October 22, 2002 at 6:00 P.M. First, we will have roll call attendance please Mr. Berg. Item 2. Adoption of the Agenda: Corrie:Item Number 2 is adoption of the agenda. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I move that we adopt the agenda as presented. Nary: Second. Corrie: Motion made and seconded. Any further discussion? All those in the favor of the motion say aye. All ayes motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Item 3. Discussion with Robert Horton regarding Water / Sewer / Trash Billing Policy: Corrie: Item Number 3 is first with the discussion with Robert Horton regarding Water, Sewer, and Trash Billing policy so Bob you are up first. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Yes, Mrs. de Weerd. Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting October 22, 2002 Page 2 of 18 De Weerd: I had asked this be put on the agenda. Mr. Horton wrote us a letter, nd, we received it October 2 and I think he talked with myself and also Anita in your office. I thought it would be best if he came and talked to the Council about our policies and he has some experience he would like to share with us. Corrie: Come up here Bob please so we can get it on the record. De Weerd: See we try to elevate ourselves so we are really intimidating. Horton: Mr. Mayor and Council Members. I thought I was coming to kind of an informal meeting at which maybe the Public Works or Water Director might have some kind of explanation for what the objective was and see if he could hear my objections or comments on it and maybe a more advantageous procedure for everyone worked out I guess. I didn’t expect to be standing at a microphone addressing the Council this way. Corrie: Our Public Works Director is here and so are the Superintendent of Water and also MUBS representative is here so we got you covered. Horton: Got me covered. Well the letter itself is fairly explanatory and just a few words I guess. There is more to it that makes it kind of difficult from a landlord’s perspective to deal with the policy in a timely timeframe. What I found was that I did have a different explanation of how the policy was to work given to me by the staff members at the window over here. I don’t believe that they’ve had a unanimous opinion has to how the new policy was to be implemented anyway. Basically what I would like to see is that the water bill at least be addressed so that I can have my tenants pay the bill and when they move out I will get a reading that will tell my how much water that they used and what the bill would have been. Even though I’m the guy that’s ultimately responsible. Almost every landlord that I know of will they are either going to pay it themselves right up front in their Rental Agreement or they will ask the tenant to pay different utility bills and water sewer and trash is one that I find advantageous to have the tenant do it. If it’s a sprinkling system yes they are going to use a little bit more water but they are not just going to leave it on and just run it forever. If we have irrigation that I’m already paying taxes on for it why then they won’t ignore using that and use the more expensive municipal water. It’s kind of a responsibility thing that I find works. I found a problem in the timeliness of the billings when they go out in other words because I’m the guy that’s ultimately responsible why bills are sent once a month. They are usually about a 60-day delay in it and even if I do know how much water the tenant used if he moves out other than a day the meter is going to be read. I won’t get that bill till way past the time and I’m supposed to make an accounting to that tenant in accordance with the state laws that what he has or what I’ve withheld any funds from the security deposit for. The, there are a number of things that kind of I guess snowballed in this instance to make it difficult. I made one comment in the letter that I do want to explain and Mr. Nichols may have a difference of opinion on it and he may kind of intend to agree with me or not. If I were, if the policy really is it would sent to me at my residence address and I live out of state, that involves interstate commerce even though I Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting October 22, 2002 Page 3 of 18 may have a property manager trying to manage and keep on top of everything for me. If it has to be mailed to me where I live it makes it a little difficult to use a property manager and then like I say if I’m out of state and I know I bought it from a guy that was out of state and I have my hopes that there may be some months in a row that maybe I am going to be out of state in the future. That makes it really difficult with me, timely pay a water bill and if I can’t then it gets shut off on the tenant, which isn’t fair to them. All I am asking is that a policy be implemented so that it can be addressed to the tenant to allow them to pay it and I don’t care if my name is included on it or not but be addressed at their house and then the bill go out timely. It makes it really difficult when it’s almost 60 days before it’s mailed out for the use of the water. Well better then 30 days anyway and 60 days by the time I can make an accounting in some instances to that tenant. All the other utility companies are required to do that and I don’t know if it’s a software problem, if it’s a staffing problem, manpower issue, or just what that would make it difficult to do that. Or if it really is that difficult or not but I would like to have you folks revisit the issue anyway and see if a better policy can come out. When I started writing a letter I said that the procedure was I guess attributed to the City Council for my experience in government I thought that was probably highly unlikely and that it probably originated somewhere from the staff at the Water Company and the City Council more less thought, well it sounds like a good policy lets go ahead and implement it. I don’t know which did occurred but I didn’t want to blame you. Again as I said the interstate commerce issue my experience in government was in the transportation field and I know that many, many decisions of the US Supreme Court said it when states themselves or even municipalities within a state would implement some kind of a law that would make the trucking industry suffer in a way of operating their businesses the way usually was upheld that’s a federal congressional thing it states can’t interfere with interstate commerce so and I think this policy would if its implemented the way it was explained to me. Which may or may not be accurate. Really all I’m asking is that you revisit it and come up with a policy where it could be addressed where the service is provided in the name that whoever’s using it even if you want to add the owner of that residences place in the end result I’m going to pay it if they don’t. It may not be till I sell the property but more then likely its going to be earlier than that because if I don’t when a tenant moves or doesn’t pay it the water is going off and eventually you know they are out. Even if I do sell it at that point you know it has to paid and if I want to put a new tenant in they want water so I got to pay it then. It’s just a delay problem perhaps for the city to get its money and I don’t know if that’s an issue that was trying to behead off with this new procedure or not I really don’t know. Corrie: Do you want to handle this Gary or do you want Rick too. One of the things to is that we are going through the ordinances telling us what to do but you can go ahead and explain this to Bob and see where we are going. Smith: Thank you Mr. Mayor, Council Members, Mr. Horton. Maybe a little background for Mr. Horton’s purposes on why we are proceeding the direction we are proceeding and then I think I’ll turn it over to Rick Clinton and perhaps Leslie to address the particulars as far as timeliness of billing is concerned. We Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting October 22, 2002 Page 4 of 18 have had problems in the past with being able to coordinate payment of water bills by tenants or by the owner of a rental property when tenants move out. There have been times where a tenant moves out, a new tenant moves in, and the tenant that has moved out has had or has enrolled in what we used to call Renters Agreement where they were able to pay the water bill directly for the landlord. That tenant moves out and leaves an unpaid utility bill, we don’t know they have moved out and the landlord of course does and proceeds to re-rent the property. Time goes by and the water bill for the tenant that moved out becomes delinquent. That account then is terminated and so the tenant that is living there has no water and really didn’t contribute to the problem so that was one of the reason the owner then has a problem then collecting from the tenant that moved out because that tenant’s gone and they may or may not know where they are but nevertheless it leaves a burden on the landlord to try and collect the money from the tenant and even though the landlord by ordinance is ultimately responsible as you indicated for payment of the bill. What we are trying to do is get a closer coordination between the Water Department Municipal Billing System and the owner of the property so they know the bill is due and it’s to be paid by a certain date and if its not then service will be terminated. I understand what you are saying and there have been some questions on about how we treat properties that are under property management conditions. If we make an exception for property managers then are we making or setting precedence for all other rentals whether the landlord has one unit or ten that is under a property management company and that’s a question that we haven’t resolved yet. I’d like Rick and or Leslie to talk about the timeliness of the billing as far as when the meters are read how long it takes to get a bill out and when, how long before bills are delinquent. Howard: Mayor, Council, and Mr. Horton. The meters are read once a month depending on where you are located in town we call it by book or by route is st when your meter is read. If your meter is read on the 1 of every month, you will st not be billed for that water until the 1 of the following month. You only go 30 days city only goes 30 days before we bill you. You have to use 30 days worth of water we bill you. No longer than that. It takes about 30 days to read the meters. About 25 that gives us about 5 days to prepare the bills. Corrie: So the meters are read once a month? Howard: Meters are read once a month. Corrie: That’s when your time is paid okay. Bird: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Bird. st Bird: Leslie if you read my meter on the 1 of the month and I don’t get the bill till thth the 4 or 5 of the following month, when is it delinquent? Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting October 22, 2002 Page 5 of 18 th Howard: Approximately 45 days later. It’s due by the 15 when you receive your thth bill on the 5 its due by the 15 or we give you approximately 10 to 15 days to pay that. It doesn’t become delinquent until the middle of the following month if you do not pay it. Bird: How many meters are we reading a month now. Howard: Approximately 14,000. Bird: 14,000 and we can only get the bills out once a month. Howard: Ordinance states that we bill once a month at this point. thth Bird: Why can’t we read from the 10? The first from the 10 and get those bills out why we are reading the others and have them due the first of the month. What can happen on rentals and stuff is you read it on the first and they can be th there until the 25 and up and jump and its 90 days before the landlord knows he ahs a delinquent water bill. Howard: It’s possible to do more than one billing cycle. We were just following ordinance. Bird: Ordinance says you bill once a month. It doesn’t say you can – if you bill th the people that you read between the first and the 10 that’s once a month. If ththth you bill the people that you read between the 10 and the 20 on the 25 that’s once a month. Howard: The ordinance states that you will receive from the City Clerks Office on the first of every month. Clinton: Councilman Bird, Mayor Corrie, and Mr. Horton. One thing that we would kind of like to -- I guess I would like to address the question about the timeliness of Mr. Horton receiving the bill. In the process that we are currently trying to implement with the recommendations of the City Council, which does follow a current ordinance by Mr. Horton receiving the bill directly, we really significantly reduce that timeline in you receiving notification that a tenant hasn’t paid a bill. I guess we have eliminated that. One of the things that we have tried to do by adhering to the ordinance as its currently written which required that the property owner be responsible for the bill. Is should of theoretically of eliminated this delay that you have a concern about in receiving your bill because we are mailing them directly to you. Under any circumstance it shouldn’t be more then 30 days from the time a meter is read until you are notified of that amount. I’m not understanding the 90 days I guess. Bird: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Bird. Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting October 22, 2002 Page 6 of 18 Bird: My statement was that if you read the meter on the first of November on this tenant. Okay they are going to get billed for that month October, the month th of October on the first of December. That tenant stays in there until the 25 or th the 20 they are going to get that read the first of December and then they aren’t th going to get out until January, so it isn’t delinquent until January the 15 and from November first that’s 90 days. Nary: I guess if I’m following Mr. Bird what you are saying. I guess what I understood the change in the policy and the practice now doesn’t have that problem cause the bill goes to him. It goes to the landlord so there is no delinquency. I agree that there is a lag between when you read them – if you st read the water meter on October 1 you didn’t give them a bill for it till November stthth 1, its due on November 15 if it isn’t paid by November 15 its delinquent on thst, December 15. On October 1 it was the month of September, so in theory in December your delinquency is for the month of September. There is a time lag between that, but eliminating the middleman by sending it to the tenant eliminates this problem with the time lag because the landlord who is the property owner has the bill. He already has it. He has to work that out with his tenant as to how that billing is done, whether you bill that as a flat rate amount that you figure out an amount you are going to charge them for the rent for that, which is what many landlords do. I guess so that you understand too Mr. Horton when we had this discussion a few months back the practice of the city had been to have these Rental Agreements and allow the renter to get the bill. What was told to us was that was causing a lot of time of our staff to process those collect those delinquencies go back and turn water back on for users who weren’t delinquent and it ended up causing a whole lot more time and the convenience was for the landlord not for the city. This actually did originate from the Council cause I’m the one that brought it up. I said why should we be doing that for somebody else’s convenience the water users or the landlord is the one that is responsible that’s who gets the bill that’s who should pay it. How he works that out between your tenant and yourself is between you and your tenant and the city then isn’t the one funding it because it really is the taxpayers and the users of the system are funding all that time and all that delinquency and all that collection and all of that is being funded by the users in carrying those forward. Now what we felt was that there was no reason for that, the arrangement to provide water service is between the city and the property owner. The arrangement for you to choose to rent your property out that you won’t is between you and your tenant. There is no reason for the city to be involved in that relationship between you and your tenant because the city isn’t a party to that agreement. To even make you a part of that agreement, if we were going to do that again, every time we were going to make that arrangement you would have to come down and sign that agreement that you were co-responsible like a co-signer for that water bill rather then you getting it originally because you are responsible anyway. But that’s again more paperwork and time and people time in processing all of that, that was what we were trying to eliminate and I think you raised a good point tonight about using a management company that’s a little bit different then sending it to the tenant and maybe that’s something the Water Department and Public Works can evaluate has how to maybe make that process work a little bit better but Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting October 22, 2002 Page 7 of 18 otherwise what we were trying to eliminate is the middle man, because the relationship here is between the city and you, as the property owner for the water. Horton: May I respond. I wish I would of responded one at a time to Mr. Smith and it would be easier to try and do these. All I can say is if they were trying to eliminate a problem with a middleman. My understanding from the staff at the window is that the staff doesn’t like the new policy nearly has well as they did the old one. Property managers as a rule are unhappy, more unhappy with the new policy then they had been before. The timeliness I would like to break it into two. Mr. Bird is right although I’m not sure of the 90 days or whether its 75 days or however many it is, but he is right. State law does tell me though that if I’m going to withhold any amount I’ve got to give that tenant an accounting of what I’ve withheld there money from within 30 days, and I can’t do that under this system. There was another policy that eliminated some of the confusion and still notified me before is with that Landlord Tenant Agreement and I have them with Idaho Power and with Intermountain Gas and had them with Boise Water Company still do. I knew when my tenants were delinquent because the city also sent me a buck slip or a copy of the notification to the tenant that water hasn’t been paid if it isn’t by this date its going off. My agreement of course is to make sure that you keep the heat going make sure you keep the water in the water heater and those kinds of things even if you are staying there because I don’t want the water pipes broken because there is no heat I don’t want the water heater burnt out cause it runs dry. They’ve used all the water and the gas still burns on it. I understand what Mr. Nary is saying is that I am responsible but I’m just not sure if I buy the entire argument. As I said I worked for a government and I’m going to make just a philosophical response to that. I was told when I went to work that if I didn’t like being a servant I could go look for work elsewhere and I worked with Mr. Worley. In fact about three years before Mike came aboard we were on the same department together and that’s a philosophy that I thought was really great. I carried that forward with me when I left the Police Department and worked with the state. I was a public servant I was there to serve the public they weren’t there to make my job easy for me. I was there at their behest not there their just so I have a job. I realize that it can be a little bit more difficult for the staff to send out a copy of the bill to a landlord as well as to the address that the water is going to be shut off. I don’t see that it is a great big expense and as Mr. Bird was mentioning the ability to, well the city’s not actually mailing the bills my understanding if I’ve been told correctly that you have contracted with a firm that does that for you and maybe their software is making it difficult for them to do it other than one day out of the year. I don’t know maybe it’s the ordinance that they are following I don’t know. All I know is when the policy changed it made it a lot more difficult for me to run a business and I think I’m not the only person that is being served by the city. I think my tenant is being served as well by the city services, and I think they need to be taken into account and not treated simply as a middleman but as a receiver of services. The other part on the timeliness in this instance arouse if and I won’t be certain about the dates but lets say for example I think the tenant moved on the fourth of the month and the city read the meter when the tenant called and said I don’t want to pay the bill anymore, shut Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting October 22, 2002 Page 8 of 18 my water off and they did they went out and shut the water off and read the bill. thth The normal reading date was something like the 10 or the 11 sometime in that period and so that was the reading that I received which if I do use that which comes still another 30 days or whatever later and go to explain that to the tenant this is how much you owe me or how much I owe you. I’m not using the correct figures because they shut it off the fourth and the reading says whatever day it was read later I didn’t get that figure I didn’t even know there was difference until I came into the office to try and get the water back on for the new tenant after it had been turned off under the type of situation that Mr. Smith described. All I’m saying is that this new policy is not (inaudible) has the old one did. The old one wasn’t perfect but it was certainly a lot more workable then this one is. nd Corrie: Let me ask a question Bob. If the tenant called on the 2 and I’m nd leaving today on the 2 come out and read my meter. They come out and read th that meter and turn the water off and then you get a bill that it shows on the 10 ndth where would that water from the 2 to the 10, there is no water used. Horton: No there was. Corrie: How. Horton: I had a painter and a repairman come out and do some work on it. Instead of stopping here in the office the property address was about two blocks th from the down off of 8 Street and I went down and said I need to have the water turned back on and so it was done from there rather than from the front desk out here and so there was usage cause the water came back on but the normal reading date was the date that after I had been using water that there was a difference. It wasn’t a whole lot of water I don’t know they told me 1,000 gallons or something the more water you use the higher the sewer bill is going to but I don’t think it amounted to more then about four dollars worth of difference cause we didn’t use a whole lot but we certainly needed to have it on and start cleaning paintbrushes and things like that. Corrie: So you had it turned on from the field not from the office. Horton: I did it at an office but it was not the one in this building it was the one south of the or north of the school down there at the Public Works Office and the thth Water Department on 8 Street. I can’t give you the address but its on North 8. Corrie: Can they do that? Clinton: Mayor Corrie it is our practice that we would normally not do that. I have done some investigation into whether or not we produced a service order done there at the Water Department. That is not our standard policy they should be directed to the MUBS Department for a request for water activation. Corrie: Okay I’m not questioning what you did. Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting October 22, 2002 Page 9 of 18 Horton: I didn’t know that. Corrie: I was just seeing what the procedure was because it didn’t sound like that they would do that. What you are saying is correct I don’t have any problem with that. What you would like to have is send the bill to you and also to the tenant each time, is that what I’m hearing? Horton: It would work better for property managers, it would work better for landlords if they ask the tenant to pay the water bill if it be billed to the tenant and I don’t necessarily need a copy of it but I’d like to know when they haven’t paid it that its going to be shut off like the old policy did. It sent me just a copy of the deal that they got you know the pink slip or the yellow slip or whatever that said its going off. Now my antennas out I know my tenant is doing something. Corrie: Okay is it possible to send it the red slip to the tenant? I mean to the owner or is it not. Horton: And the property manager’s antenna would be right out. Nary: Mr. Nary. Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: I guess though Mr. Horton what you are wanting is what the system we wanted to change, that was what we wanted to eliminate because again the only way we can bill the tenant is with an agreement with the tenant because we don’t know who the tenant is. The tenant can change monthly. The reason the property owner is responsible is because we have a record of who the owner is through the County Recorder, we don’t know who the tenants are. The problem that I guess I was hearing and if they need to revisit the practice of the policy they certainly can do that and come back and report to us changes like in regards to those property management companies. We don’t have anyway to bill a tenant without them agreeing to be a party to that agreement. Our ordinance goes to you as the property owner. Right now we have 14,000 users in five years we will probably have 25,000 users, it isn’t that easy to simply have a system that says I’m going to remember to send you a bill when the other guy doesn’t pay it. It isn’t quite that simple but secondarily it was trying to eliminate all that extra redundancy and time that the taxpayers are paying for. When the agreement is between you and the city to provide service to your property that’s what the only agreement we have that’s why they used to have that separate renters agreement. Well what they found in trying to enforce that that was where it was a tremendous amount of time and energy wasted on behalf of the users and the taxpayers that we are trying to eliminate. What you are asking is for us to go back to that and we wanted to eliminate that. If the department thinks that there is better ways to do it and taking some of the suggestions you had they can come back and tell us that. We can’t just bill the tenants we don’t know who the tenants are. We have to bill them if they will agree to be billed and your going to have to come in every time and you may be a very responsible landlord but there Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting October 22, 2002 Page 10 of 18 are many that live out of state aren’t going to respond or pay attention when they live in Florida and get a notice that one of their properties in Meridian somebody didn’t pay the water bill. They might not get quite so responsive and the city has to expend all this time and energy turning it off turning it on trying to collect the delinquent bill eating the difference when we can’t collect the delinquent bill. Those are the things we are trying to eliminate because that’s more efficient from the city’s standpoint in trying to maintain the system. I understand what you are saying and certainly the Public Works Department can come back and give us more information as they think there are ways to improve it but what you are asking is to reinstate is what we totally intentionally wanted to eliminate. Was that step that was causing more problems then it was gaining the city and we are not required to do it. The law doesn’t require it that is what we are trying to eliminate is something the law doesn’t make us do that so that we don’t incur more expense and costs in running the system. Horton: Mayor Corrie, if I may respond to Mr. Nary. Mr. Nary I did have a couple places in Boise, I still have one. I had continuous service agreements I only filled out one paper and I filled out one paper once in probably ten years with Idaho Power and Intermountain Gas. I have gotten a notification from them say about every five years or something that’ll say this is what we still show you as, is that still accurate. If it isn’t, tell us. I’m the guy they are going to switch stuff with now it works different under their system then what the City of Meridian was doing, it worked a whole lot better. If the City of Meridian had a problem with their old system and I think they did. They went the wrong way in trying to fix it. I can’t imagine in this computer age that the thing can’t be set up for a tickler or a duplicate whatever I just think that is simply a programming issue or software issue to do that. That’s what computers are for and life has gotten a lot simpler for everybody in that. It got more a whole lot more complicated that I can see at least the girls of the staff at the desk for landlords and for property managers with the new change. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: As I recall we discussed late last spring a policy that known as the renters policy that staff brought to us and that it had problems to it and it also was in conflict with our City Ordinance. Councilman Nary suggested that we bring it in compliance with our ordinance I would like to see and then we did have a Public Hearing so we could get public comment. It doesn’t look like we did a very good job trying to notify the landlords of this change but also I guess I don’t understand like Mr. Horton is suggesting why we can’t send out two bills. A duplicate to the rental property and the bill to the owner. You know that to of my opinion is customer service and our citizens are our customers and computer age I would not think that would be an extra problem to do. I would also like to see staff bring back and kind of look at kind of what other utility companies are doing in regard to rental type of agreements and how they process those kinds of things. I’m not a property owner that rents out my property but I could see how Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting October 22, 2002 Page 11 of 18 this would be an issue. I do agree with Mr. Nary that this agreement is between the city and the property owner and that you are ultimately responsible but on the other hand they are the user and so it would be nice for them to have an accounting of what their water bills are because they are responsible, you are the last man to pay the bill but there must be a way that we can notify the property owner and the rental each month at the monthly mailing. I don’t see that there is an issue there. Corrie: Let me throw another light on this. Why should the other citizens have to pay for the time for the landlord to get another billing at the same time? You are making the citizens pay twice for having that bill sent out. Why? I mean why do we need to do that? If it’s between the landlord and the city why do we have to send a bill to the tenant and also to the landlord? As a citizen I am paying for that extra – that’s just another light on it. Horton: May I respond. As a landlord I don’t want a duplicate of every bill that is sent out. Maybe there are some that might but I certainly wouldn’t and I don’t think a property management company that I would hire would say I want duplicate bills sent out, but it is nice to get a copy of the warning that it’s going to be shut off and the one bill whether its addressed to me at the address of my property manager or my tenants house is all I’m asking. One bill, but the option of it where it be addressed where it be mailed to and if its mailed to one of those other two at least the copy of the warning that its going to be shut off, that’s only a 37 cent stamp. Corrie: Well it’s good, we are going to have to send that to the people and then look at that and maybe we can do that. I’m just, it’s one-way or the other, I really don’t care. Horton: I understand that but I didn’t want it to be that I was asking for a duplicate bill every time, no. Nary: I would agree with Council member De Weerd I mean I think Mr. Horton has brought up some issues that we hadn’t discussed previously that we need to at least evaluate. I think and if what Mr. Horton is saying is accurate that the staff in the utility billing doesn’t feel this policy fits the practice or is better then it was before then I want to know that because the purpose of changing it was because the Public Works Department felt it would be better. If it isn’t better then I guess I would like to know that. I think taking into account some of these things that you’ve brought up I think is something we need to evaluate. I mean we are trying to make it better we’re also as the Mayor just said we’re not trying to make it more redundant and expensive for the users of the system now. There obviously are other places that do the same service and provide it in just a different manner. We need to evaluate what those are to see whether or not there is a better way to do this. I mean we certainly have other areas in this community that provide water services that we can find out how those work and what can work better. I mean I appreciate you bringing it up, you know we may not all agree on every point you said and we obviously don’t totally agree up here either Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting October 22, 2002 Page 12 of 18 but I think we need to discuss it some more and I guess we need to have a little bit more information to figure what’s the best overall that we can go with. Horton: Thank you. Mr. Mayor. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Yes go ahead. Horton: I just was going to make one last comment on that I guess is that. I’ve been on the other side of the fence in other words the same side of the cage the girls are on and water flows down hill. People that I’ve worked for and made a decision and I caught the heat and the anger from the public when it wasn’t something that I agreed with at all and I think there is some of that on the other side that they feel victimized and that’s all I was trying to point out. That sometimes life is a little uncomfortable for them trying to explain a policy that they may not totally understand or like and they don’t like the anger from the public because the public doesn’t like it. I sympathize with them I’ve been there I know. De Weerd: I guess we are the elected officials and are the scape goats for that but you know my point is there must be a way to trigger something in the day and age of computers and I didn’t necessarily mean you get a copy of every single month but when that pink line as an amount in it and there is a delinquent amount there must be something that can trigger it and it doesn’t have to be with every property manager or owner it can be pre arranged when you have some kind of a Rental Agreement that that happens or not. I would like some research done on how it is done with other utility companies or service providers to see how they deal with the leg between when the renter moves out and when a new one moves in and getting a timely bill out so that they can wrap up. I do know renters when they move out want their deposit back and. Corrie: That’s another whole story. Horton: One last comment if I may. That is city’s at least the City of Meridian and maybe other cities as well are in a position that is enviable from one standpoint then what Idaho Power, Intermountain Gas and other utility providers are. Other utility providers must provide service at that address for somebody that is living there and wants it whether the bill has been paid or not and if the person who was living skipped and went out of state or they put the service in their kids name and they didn’t catch it or something like that. Sometimes they eat those bills, the city is not going to. The city here is going to bill me when that happens and that is fair. Corrie: Well I think we are going to look into it for you Bob. Horton: Thank you Mr. Mayor and Council members and staff. I appreciate it very much. Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting October 22, 2002 Page 13 of 18 Clinton: Mayor Corrie. Corrie: Yes. Clinton: May I address one additional item before we move on, if I could please. With all do respect to Mr. Horton, I don’t think its fair that I not clarify the fact that staff very fully endorses the policy revision and I think what may have come about out of this is that as Mr. Nichols may know right now that we are right now in the process of trying to get the letter reviewed by the City Attorney’s office and get a letter of notification that we have now changed the policy. Perhaps what occurred is that because of this transition from the old policy to the new policy and our perhaps the delay in getting that letter out. They have a little bit of question on what the policy is today but as soon as we can get that letter in the mail. I don’t think there is any question from our staff as to whether or not this was a good decision. I personally support and I think it is a good decision and I think it enables us to work in areas that frees us up to do other things. In addition to that I do think that as time goes by we need to continue to entertain the thought process of trying to split these bills out into two billing cycles so that we’re perhaps billing twice a month for half of the town at each point in time and we’ve had some discussions on that but we wanted to try and get what we already have before the Council address before we move onto other things. Corrie: Thank you Rick and we do have an ordinance and until – (End of Side One) Corrie: -- You look into the things that we can look at then we maybe want to change the ordinance at that point until that time we have to go with what we have. Clinton: To address one other question of Council member De Weerd the city of Nampa just recently discontinued the use of renter’s agreements and Leslie has noted to me that Caldwell has contacted us to try and find out how we are able to get our delinquency list down as low as we have because they are writing off an excess of 10,000 dollars per month. That was clear objective that was given to me when I came into this position at the Water Department was that I needed to focus on trying to get that delinquency list down and as you’ll see later tonight, I believe tonight we’ve got approximately 158 on the list. De Weerd: Thank you. Corrie: Thank you Rick. Okay we will work on it Bob. Item 4. Discussion of Fine Enhancement for School Zone(s): with Elaine Estacio: Corrie: Okay the next one is discussion of fine enhancement for school zones and I believe that’s you two right? One of you is the driver. Both of you, you’re Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting October 22, 2002 Page 14 of 18 the driver. Okay if you’ll come up here and kind of give us some background here. Estacio: Mr. Mayor and ladies and gentleman of the City Council. I’ve come before you today to ask Meridian City to consider a new City Ordinance on school speed zones that would include on adopting a new sign, which Boise City is now using. Speed limit 20 miles per hour 7:00 A.M. to 4:30 P.M. and to increase the fines of speeding in a school zone to 100 dollars. The current school zone signs we now have say, which say 20 miles an hour when children are present are confusing it is giving the driver a choice, to slow down or not. When we try to define the meeting of when children are present, does that mean plural. If the driver only sees one child is it okay to drive faster? We need signs that are clear and precise, we need signs that have no misunderstanding of when and where you are in a school zone and how fast you can go. Currently the fine for speeding in a school zone in Meridian is only 25 dollars. Are Meridian police officers having writing citations on a State Statute Code, which the fine is, only 53 dollars. On these new signs it says 100 dollar fine right on the bottom of the sign. Everyone is more aware of their actions when the consequences are clear and in black and white. These new signs leave no room for confusion, it is very clear when you are in a school zone how fast you can drive and what will happen if you break this law. Meridian School District currently has 23 elementary and six middle schools. Most of these schools are within Ada County, but they are spread out in Eagle, Star, Meridian and Boise. All of these schools need school zone signs and they should all be the same throughout, including the fines. We should be consistent throughout Ada County. As a parent and a Meridian school bus driver, I see first hand the traffic problems we have within our school zones. Last year I was driving down Pine Street, just two blocks from here, as I drove by I seen this car that had just hit a child riding her bicycle on her way to Meridian Elementary School. That vision of that child’s bicycle stuck underneath the car is something I will never forget. My own fourth grade son loves to ride his bike to school everyday too, but I do worry about his safety. I know we cannot slow everyone down but with your help IU believe we can improve this problem. Thank you. Corrie: Questions. I agree with you 100 percent. I didn’t realize that the 100- dollar fine was legal and just told by the counselor here its in Boise that it was and these types of signs if it’s an ordinance they would. ACHD has to give us the signs right? Estacio: That’s a Boise City Ordinance. Corrie: City pays for it but this is a 25 mile speed limit, in some areas I think on Linder before you get to the school area it says 20 if children are present. Now would you say all that should be 20 miles an hour from that time from 7:00 to 4:30 on Linder and also on Cherry Lane all the way from if you interlock it all the th way down past 8 Street. I’m just trying to get an idea of where. Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting October 22, 2002 Page 15 of 18 Estacio: Cherry Street is Meridian Middle School, which has flashing red lights or flashing lights. That is a little bit different than these particular signs. Now Linder Road and for instance Pine right out here, yes I do believe during those times they should slow down because we do not know if your not a parent or even if you are a parent what days we are getting out early, what schools are year around, which we have four current year around schools right here in Meridian. So I don’t think it should be a decision for the driver to decide, well I may slow down today or not or what time. I think if we know a time is set for the time to slow down then there is no question. To leave it as when children are present most drivers are not going to slow down to see if there is a child out there that might be hurrying on the way to school. And sometimes for like instance Linder, that’s where my son rides his bike down to school. There are cars parked all along there so the kids may be in the bike lane or up on the sidewalk. They might be coming around the corner to go down and you can’t see that when you are going 35 miles an hour or more because we are in a hurry to get to work, a child’s racing out there and that is a concern. I think if we slow it down during those times then we are consistent with what other cities are doing in Ada County then all the drivers will now when they see that sign. Nary: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: About eight to 10 years ago it was very popular in traffic safety that when children are present wasn’t something the City of Meridian or the City of Boise thought of. It was something that was a national movement because it was intended to be 24 hours a day 7 days a week and what they have found over time that it really isn’t effective. Estacio: Right. Nary: This particular idea on the school zone I’m all in favor of it I can get a copy of this ordinance here fairly quickly its not really that tough. What I had brought up to the rest of the Council is that we need to look at this not only with the schools but we need to look at this in regards to parks that are adjacent to our neighborhood streets if we have a number of parks here with Bear Creek the Kiwanis Park as that gets developed. Settlers Park as that gets developed along with Chateau Park might be adjacent to a neighborhood street. Those want the same thing, the state law allows this type of thing, and I have no qualms about it. I think it’s a great idea and I think we need to evaluate it and go forward and do it. Estacio: Great. I also would like to introduce my supervisor at Meridian School Transportation, Jim Fischer. He has a few facts that he would like to share to if you would have a moment. Corrie: Mike did you have something? Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting October 22, 2002 Page 16 of 18 Worley: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council. Just for your information we have had some discussions on this and I currently have an assignment out within the Police Department to develop a package to bring to the Council, which addresses this very issue, also addresses the park speeding problem and the alley speeding problem. We will be bringing that package forward for the record I completely support what’s in this package including doing away with the when children are present because it is very confusing from an enforcement standpoint. Corrie: Thank you Mike. Yes. Fischer: I agree with Mike Worley. My name is Jim Fischer and I’m the supervisor of Transportation for Meridian Middle School, Meridian High School and all the Elementary that we have here in the city. We do instruct our drivers when they are in training that they are to observe 20 miles an hour during these times that we have all have seen here. We have the 24/7 with the idea that maybe if people see that our busses are going 20 miles an hour maybe they will get the idea. Unfortunately that hasn’t happened in every case and some of the things that I was able to look up in conjunction with Elaine’s idea that she ahs given you is that speed limits in school zones that we have found is probably one of the major problems we have on a day to day basis. Well the major problem is that there is no consistency and as she explained to you, when children are present. Then we have some that we do have times that are given. Especially out there in front of Meridian Middle School where we have our flashing lights. The trouble is that when people turn onto lets say westbound Cherry Lane from th 8 Street there is no flashing light and there is no sign, so hence what we have is a problem maybe 95 percent of the motorists going eastbound Cherry Lane from Linder which is where they first see the flashing light do 20 miles an hour. The ones going westbound I found they generally do not and they are traveling anywhere from, we’ve had radar out there cause we do have a radar gun at the school. They are doing anywhere between from 35 to 40 in some cases even 50 miles an hour. There’s not much that we can really do because even though we deal with the Police Department and let them know when there is certain areas and times of concern, can’t be everywhere at once. Statistics will show is that number one children can not see as far as older and taller adults and number two they don’t have the experience to make the proper judgments about when it is safe to cross the street even if it marked walk and don’t walk and they have the buttons to push. The other thing is that we all now are that they are impulsive and easily distracted and they cannot actively judge distances or speeds of approaching vehicles. The other thing is children that are struck by vehicles traveling at 35 miles an hour have a 15 percent chance of survival. Children that have been struck by vehicles traveling at 20 miles an hour have a survival rate of 75 percent and that percentage goes up with every decrease in speed. The motoring public needs to be more aware of speed in school zones as we have pointed out. We have increased traffic on Cherry Lane which is where we have Meridian Middle School, also Ustick Road where we now have Ponderosa Elementary School of course Linder with Linder Elementary. Meridian Elementary, which is, located right here at the intersection of Pine and Meridian. Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting October 22, 2002 Page 17 of 18 Overland Road which next year will be the new High School, that also will present, we may need to maybe implement something in place before that school opens we have a year before that happens. We think it would be a good idea for the community to have a uniform and consistent means of identifying school zones and times and especially increasing the fine for those that disregard the safety of our children. Let us make our community a safe place for our children to walk to and from school. Thank you Mr. Mayor, members of the Council. Corrie: I agree with you 110 percent as the bank used to say. I think that, if we can just save one child from injury its well worth it. Fischer: By all means. Corrie: So I think the chief has been looking at that now and as soon as we get it then we’ll look at the whole picture and we’ll probably do a lot of this. Fischer: It’s great to get the ball rolling. Corrie: You bet yes. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I know that Mr. Fischer knows about the traffic because I’ve seen him standing out there every morning almost. He can probably tell you what each car is doing as they drive by. I appreciate you Elaine you bringing this forward and your tremendous follow up. There is a woman that is very convicted on getting this done and its citizens like you that do and can make a difference. You know this is something I know Captain Bowman and I went and testified at State level for a law on enhanced penalties in school zones and it was even said at that time when the bill was defeated that cities can take a individual action through ordinances to make the fines more of a hit to the motorists pocket book and so this is something that we do really need to do and Councilman Nary’s suggestion to include the parks is an excellent because most of our users are children and they have the same narrow focus as they are walking down those sidewalks they aren’t paying attention to the cars driving by. They are paying attention to the buddy next to them and they are pushing and shoving and it even makes stopping when one of those kids fall out in front of your car easier top react so this is a good thing and I’d love to see the city move forward in addressing it. Corrie: Okay very good. De Weerd: Thank you and we’ll let you know or the city clerk will let you know when we get it to public hearing. Thank you. Corrie: Okay that includes the Pre-Council Meeting. I’ll entertain a motion to close the pre council meeting. Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting October 22, 2002 Page 18 of 18 Bird: So moved. De Weerd: Second. Corrie: Okay motion made and seconded to close the Pre-Council meeting all those in favor say aye. All ayes motion carried Pre-Council meeting is hereby closed. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES MEETING ADJOURNED AT 7:04 P.M. (TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) APPROVED: / / ROBERT D. CORRIE, MAYOR DATE ATTESTED: WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., CITY CLERK