HomeMy WebLinkAbout2002 09-03
Meridian City Council Meeting September 3, 2002
The regular meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:20 P.M.,
Tuesday, September 3, 2002, by Mayor Robert D. Corrie.
Members Present: Mayor Robert Corrie, Tammy de Weerd, Keith Bird, Cherie
McCandless and William Nary.
Others Present: Bill Nichols, Jim Worley, Brad Hawkins-Clark, Gary Smith, Brad
Watson, Will Berg, Ken Bowers, and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
__X Tammy de Weerd _ X__ Bill Nary
__X Cherie McCandless __X Keith Bird
__X Mayor Robert Corrie
Corrie: Now, then, I will open the regular City Council meeting on Tuesday, September
3rd, 2002, at 7:20 p.m. at the City Council Chambers. We will have the roll-call
attendance, please, Mr. Clerk.
Item 2: Adoption of the Agenda:
Corrie: Okay. Again, welcome tonight. I'm sorry we are a little late. Welcome to Troop
72 for being here tonight. Council, Item No. 2 is the adoption of the agenda. Do we have
any corrections or additions to the adoption of the agenda?
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: Just for a point of order, item E and F, if we could have resolution numbers.
Corrie: Okay. Number E, Resolution No. 02-386 and F is Resolution No. 02-387.
De Weerd: I have nothing further.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: With that I move that we adopt the agenda as published.
De Weerd: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded to adopt the agenda. All those in
favor say aye. All eyes. Motion carried.
Meridian City Council Meeting
September 3, 2002
Page 2 of 42
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 3: Consent Agenda:
A. August 20, 2002
Approve minutes of City Council Regular
Meeting:
B. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: MI 02-
006
Request for an Amendment to the Area of Impact by Capital
Bristol Heights
Development () – southeast corner of Chinden
Boulevard and North Locust Grove Road:
C. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Denial: CUP 02-
013
Request for a Conditional Use Permit for four 4-plex units on
Scottsdale
1.08 acres in an L-O zone on Lots 4 and 5, Block 2 of
Subdivision
by C.W. Construction, Inc. – West Alden Drive, at the
th
southwest corner of West Franklin Road and SW 7 Avenue:
D. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Denial: VAR 02-
010
Request for a Variance from the minimum lot frontage
Bear Creek Subdivision
requirement for Lot 1 Block 3 of by Bear
Creek LLC – Lot 1 Block 3, 714 West Calderwood Street:
E. Resolution No. : Approving Consent to
Annexation Agreement, Robert and Christy Haddock:
F. Resolution No. : Adopting Human
Resources Standard Operating Policy and Procedure Manual:
G.Rejection of 2002 Creek-Crossing Sewer Pipe Rehabilitation
Project Bids:
H. Approve Bills:
Corrie: No. 3 is the Consent Agenda.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Showing needing no changes or anything, we have got the resolution numbers, I
would move that we approve the Consent Agenda as published.
McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion made and seconded to approve the A, B, C, D, E, F, and G on the
Consent Agenda. Any further discussion? Hearing none, roll-call vote, Mr. Berg.
Roll-call vote: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; DeWeerd, aye; Bird, aye.
Meridian City Council Meeting
September 3, 2002
Page 3 of 42
Corrie: Okay. All ayes. The Consent Agenda is approved.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: Do we need to approve bills? That should have been on the Consent Agenda.
Okay. That's H.
Bird: Yeah. It was H.
Item 4: Department Reports:
Corrie: It was H. All right. Department reports. Any department reports tonight?
Item 5: (Items Moved from Consent Agenda)
Corrie: Okay. Item No. 5 is items moved from the Consent Agenda. There are none.
Item 6: Ordinance No. : AZ 02-012
Request for
Jerald S.
annexation and zoning of 2.02 acres from RUT to R-4 zones by
Frank
– 2310 South Locust Grove Road:
Corrie: Item No. 6 is Ordinance No. 02-974. This is a request for annexation and zoning
of 2.2 acres from RUT to R-4 zone by Jerald S. Frank, 2310 South Locust Grove Road.
At this time I'd like to have the city clerk read Ordinance No. 02-974 by its title only,
please.
Berg: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council. Ordinance No. 02-974, an
Ordinance finding that certain land owned by Jerald S. Frank, located 2310 South
Locust Grove Road and which lies contiguous or adjacent to the city limits of the City of
Meridian, County of Ada, State of Idaho, and finding that the owner Jerald S. Frank has
made a request for annexation in writing to the Council and that said land be annexed to
the City of Meridian and zoning designated Low Density Residential District (R-4), and
declaring that said land, by proper legal description described below be a part of the
City of Meridian, County of Ada, State of Idaho, repealing all ordinances, resolutions,
orders, or parts thereof, in conflict herewith and directing the city engineer to add said
property to the official maps of the City of Meridian, Idaho, and directing the clerk of the
City of Meridian to file a certified copy of the ordinance and a map of the area to be
annexed to the Ada County recorder, auditor, treasurer, and assessor and the State Tax
Commission of the State of Idaho, pursuant to Idaho Code Section 50-323 and Section
63-2251.
Corrie: Okay. You have heard the reading of Ordinance No. 02-974 by title. Is there
anyone from the audience who would like to have it read in its entirety? All right.
Hearing none, I will entertain a motion on Ordinance No. 02-974.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
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September 3, 2002
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De Weerd: I move we approve Ordinance 02-974, request for annexation and zoning of
2.02 acres from RUT to R-4 by Jerald S. Frank, with suspension of rules.
McCandless: Second.
De Weerd: I'm sorry. And for the Mayor to sign and the Clerk attest.
Corrie: Is there any further discussion? Hearing none. Roll-call vote, Mr. Berg.
Roll-call vote: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; DeWeerd, aye; Bird, aye.
Corrie: Okay. Ordinance No. 02, 974 is approved.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 7: Public Hearing: CUP 02-020
Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a
The Designing Team
professional beauty salon in an R-15 zone for
Salon
by the Designing Team Inc. – 1226 East 2 ½ Street:
Item 8: Public Hearing: VAR 02-011
Request for a Variance to the parking
The Designing Team Salon
ordinances and Landscape Ordinance for by
the Designing Team, Inc. – 1226 East 2 ½ Street:
Corrie: Item No. 7 is a Public Hearing. This is a request for a Conditional Use Permit for
a professional beauty shop salon in an R-15 zone by Designing Team Salon by the
Designing Team, Inc., 1226 East 2 1/2 Street. At this time I will open the Public Hearing
and request the staff comments first, then we will have the applicant, and then anyone
who would like to issue testimony in the Public Hearing after that.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Bird: Do you want to do the variance at the same time?
Corrie: Oh, they are both together. Yeah.
Bird: Is that okay?
Corrie: Yes. That's fine if it's okay with the Council. We will open the Public Hearing as
well for the variance on the parking ordinance and landscape ordinance.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: In addition to hearing them both at the same time, we are a little bit
disadvantaged, because we don't have our computers, and we don't have anything
visual in front of us, like the actual application. So if you can be a little bit more detailed
tonight it would be very appreciated. I have kind of looked at it, but I don't have it in front
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September 3, 2002
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of me, so I don't now how the other Council have done with this, but we found out how
much we rely on our computers.
Corrie: Did you not get any of this?
De Weerd: I do, but don't have any of the plats or, you know, the application or anything
like that.
Corrie: Just wanted to make sure you got what I got. All right.
Hawkins-Clark: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council. I will try to be detailed,
but not overly cumbersome with the descriptions, since you don't have -- hopefully we
will have a new bulb here soon. Item No. 7 and 8 are for the Designing Team Salon.
Item No. 7 is for the Conditional Use Permit to actually operate the beauty salon and
Item No. 8 is for a variance to four different sections of the ordinance. This item deals
with an existing house that's on the east side of 2 1/2 Street across from the Meridian
Convention Center, the old high school. It is an existing house that they are proposing
to convert to a beauty salon. It is surrounded currently, completely, by R-15 zoned
residential uses. The applicant is proposing to add a new parking lot to the rear of the
site. The Planning and Zoning Commission has reviewed and recommended approval
to the City Council of the application. It would include nine hair-nail stations on the
interior and they would have some products for retail sale to their patrons. The site does
have one existing entrance and they are proposing a second. They would -- the majority
of the parking for this site would be, like I said before, to the rear of the house, so they
would have a driveway that is along the south edge of their property and would kind of
wrap around behind the house and that's what the majority of the parking would be. The
Planning and Zoning Commission recommended approval with staff comments. There
was no proposed conditions that were really of any significance at the Planning and
Zoning Commission hearing. They did recommend hours of operation be limited to 8:00
a.m. to 9:00 p.m., which my understanding is the applicant is in agreement with that.
The Commission also recommended that they submit for the variance application prior
to the City Council hearing, which they did do. They did pay the fee and staff has
prepared a report for that. So the Conditional Use Permit was recommended for
approval. Now on Item No. 8, the variance, of course, if these are not approved the
Conditional Use Permit would not be able to be approved. Quickly, there are four
sections of current Meridian code that this site would need to receive variances for and,
again, this is in a part of Meridian's Old Township and during the Comprehensive Plan
hearing, as you may recall, that was proposed to be amended, the Old Town
destination, to shift further to the east and so this -- this would fall under that new Old
Town classification and if the city moves ahead would rezone to Old Town in the future
to comply with the Comprehensive Plan destination of Old Town. So the city has been
encouraging uses in Old Town and so we are supporting their request for the variances.
One is for parking in their setback. Code does not allow for standard commercial uses
to park in the minimum setback areas and they are proposing to do that. They are
proposing smaller parking stalls. The third one is they are proposing to have a
commercial off-street area -- off-street parking adjacent to residential and not screen it
with a four foot high fence and that's also an ordinance. And the last item, which is on
page two of our report, is the buffers between land uses. We do require 20 feet typically
between landscaping between residential and commercial uses. So they generally -- in
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September 3, 2002
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staff's review, since it is in this Old Town area and they are proposing a fairly modest
use in terms of the hours of operation and the amount of traffic that they anticipate, that
we have recommended approval.
Corrie: Any questions of staff?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Thank you, Brad. Is the applicant here?
Gillaspy: Council, I'm Perry Gillaspy and I'm speaking for the Designing Team and we,
in working with Planning and Zoning, we agree on all of the variances that they request
and we will just follow up with whatever is required.
Corrie: Okay. Very good. Any questions?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Thank you. Anyone else from the public like to issue testimony in this issue?
Yes, sir. I need you to raise your right hand. Is the testimony you're about to give the
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Morrison: Yes.
Corrie: Name and address first for the record.
Morrison: Michael B. Morrison, 3405 North Kirk Drive. I'm the owner of 1312 and 1316 2
1/2 Street and with what was said here tonight I have some concerns that if there is nine
chairs and nine parking spots, what do you do for the people coming and going? That
means they are going to be parking elsewhere, which also means your latest customer
is open until 9:00, probably going to leave around 9:00, 9:30 in the middle of a
residential area, which means they will be driving up and down next to the neighbors
houses. It seems inconvenient to me. It seems rude to have cars driving up and down
between houses and stuff at that time of night, especially when you're in a residential
area and stuff where hopefully we have kids and stuff that will be attending school. I
know that my tenants and stuff have kids and stuff that are school age and stuff, so I'm
really not in favor of it. I'd much rather see the hours cut back and the minimum number
of chairs cut back so you don't have the impact. Also with the added traffic and stuff in
the area, I don't know how many of you have been passed that 2 1/2 Street doing the
speed limit, but I have. That also brings up a concern that people run late to
appointments and stuff like that and speed on 2 1/2 Street with no speed bumps or
anything like that. Just some concerns. Thank you much for your time.
Corrie: Thank you. Any other questions from Council? I will ask you if you have driven
on Interstate 84 lately.
Morrison: Yes, as a matter of fact, I was passed by a semi going over 75 today.
Corrie: Good. Thank you.
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September 3, 2002
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Morrison: Just some concerns and stuff. Thank you.
Corrie: Thank you very much. Anyone else to issue testimony? Okay. Perry, if you want
to answer any of that.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Excuse me. I need your testimony. Is the testimony you're about to give the
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Gillaspy: Yeah, it is.
Corrie: I need your name and address.
Gillaspy: Perry Gillaspy, 2504 South McDermot.
Corrie: Is that your question? Sorry.
Gillaspy: Yeah. As far as parking nine people at one time, not everyone one works the
same days, so it's kind of a rotation. When designated people come in for appointments,
they are in and they are out and not all there at the same time, like if they are going to
be there all day, you know, one hour here, a half hour there, maybe two hours. So as far
as the parking -- and I do have copies of the parking if you guys would like to look at
that, since you didn't have a visual.
Corrie: I think we have that up here.
Gillaspy: Okay.
Corrie: Council can look at that.
Gillaspy: That was what -- as far as all the cars being there at one time, it's kind of an in
and out thing, it's not continuous, but there are not going to be just nine people parked
and then customers looking for some place to park.
Corrie: Okay. Okay. Council, any discussion with the Public Hearing? Okay. Then I will -
- if you think you have enough information on that, I will entertain a motion to close the
Public Hearing on the Conditional Use Permit request and also the variance request.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we close the Public Hearing for the request for Conditional Use Permit for a
professional beauty salon in an R-15 zone for the Designing Team Salon by the
Designing Team, Incorporated, at 1226 East 2 1/2 Street.
De Weerd: Second.
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September 3, 2002
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Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded to close the Public Hearing on
Items 7 and 8. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion
say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: Discussion first on the Conditional Use Permit?
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Did you want to address the Council?
Nichols: Yeah. Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, you should address the variance
request first, because if you do not grant the variance request, then the Conditional Use
Permit would --
Corrie: You're absolutely correct. Thank you, counsel. Okay. We will address the
request for a variance for the parking ordinance and landscape ordinance for the
Designing Team Salon first.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: If we don't have any discussion, I will make a motion that we approve the variance
to the parking ordinance and landscape ordinance for the Designing Team Salon by the
Designing Team, Incorporated, at 1226 East 2 1/2 Street and for the attorney to draw up
the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law and Decision of Order.
McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded. Any further discussion? Hearing none,
roll-call vote, then, Mr. Berg.
Roll-call vote: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; DeWeerd, aye; Bird, aye.
Corrie: All ayes. Motion carried for the request for variance to be approved.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: Item No. 7 is a Conditional Use Permit request. Discussion, Council?
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: You know, while I agree that there would be some parking concerns, I have
also, believe it or not, been in a beauty parlor and those chairs don't operate at the
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September 3, 2002
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same time and, you know, they do rotate. You have a very legitimate concern, but I
think the way they do schedule it -- and the applicant did address that -- is that, you
know, those stations are not always manned at the same time, there is usually at least
one person off at any one time, so that is -- that would be a concern and there will be
most likely times where there will be some overlap and the neighbors will deal with that.
I don't think it will be an overwhelming issue, though. I agree, I have seen traffic on 2 1/2
Street a little bit out of control, but I think that's something that maybe we can deal with
our chief of police and looking at enforcement, because there is just no other way to do
it. This development I don't think is going to change the habits of the drivers,
unfortunately, on 2 1/2 Street already. So I think that this is a way that we can start
some of the efforts of upgrading some of our property, which has been a goal of the city,
and it's a good start.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I'd like to echo what Councilwoman de Weerd said, but -- and also add to the point
that in downtown it's so rare that we can get off-street parking with a business and they
have come forward with this and I realize that all our downtown is busy and stuff, but
this is something that in Old Town if we can get -- the more off-street parking we get
with each business is definitely going to be a help. So I think they have tried to do the
right thing on this and even though traffic is tough on 2 1/2 Street, I think that this will be
a very nice addition to the community.
Corrie: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Bird. Any other comments? Okay. Hearing none, roll-call
vote on the motion to approve the Conditional Use Permit.
De Weerd: I don't think we --
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Oh, I'm sorry.
Bird: I will make a motion.
Corrie: Thank you. I thought you did.
Bird: I should have. I should have went ahead, but I was deciding to let the other people
comment if they want. I move that we approve the Conditional Use Permit for the
professional beauty salon in the R-15 zone for the Designing Team Salon by the
Designing Team, Incorporated, at 1226 East 2 1/2 Street and for the attorney to draw up
the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision of Order.
De Weerd: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded to approve the Conditional Use
Permit. Any further discussion? And the reason I had you down, Mr. Bird, is I was
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September 3, 2002
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looking at the second one and I had your name under that as making the motion. Roll-
call vote, please.
Roll-call vote: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; DeWeerd, aye; Bird, aye.
Corrie: Okay. All ayes. Motion for the Conditional Use Permit is approved.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 9: Public Hearing: VAR 02-012
Request for a Variance to the Landscape
Harks Corner
Ordinance to allow conifers in the landscape buffer at by
Van Hees Properties, LLC – southwest corner of South Linder Road and
West Franklin Road:
Corrie: Item No. 9 is a request for a variance of the landscape ordinance to allow
conifers in the landscape buffer at Harks Corner by Van Hees Properties, LLC,
southwest corner of South Linder Road and West Franklin Road. At this time I will open
the Public Hearing and we will hear from the staff comments first, please.
Hawkins-Clark: Thank you, Mayor, Members of the Council. The variance request
before you deals with the landscape ordinance. The property is fully developed. The
Shell and Arctic station at the corner of Franklin and Linder Roads at the southwest
corner there. Steve Siddoway's staff report, dated August 23, does go into quite a bit of
detail on some of the background related to the occupancy permit and the reason for
the request. It does have conifer trees and the landscape ordinance -- we went over this
back in the year 2000, went back and forth on this section of the ordinance and, as you
know, it has come up several times in terms of the prohibition of conifer trees in street
buffers and particularly for commercial areas, the main reason was -- well, there is two
reasons. One was visibility into the site from the adjacent street for patrol officers. At
maturity the evergreens, you know, can be pretty dense to see through, so there is a
safety issue there. The second reason it was put in the ordinance was more esthetic
related than -- and encouraging of shade trees to cover the parking area and whatnot.
Certainly there are arguments for the green in the winter and providing some interest
there. The Conditional Use Permit was approved. As I said, the project has been built, a
certificate of zoning compliance was issued in September, and the inspection of staff on
the site was the first one -- it was revealed that the landscape plan that was approved
by Council was not complied with, they did put in the conifer trees instead of the
approved deciduous trees. The city is currently holding a cash bond, a 5,500 dollar
surety. They do have a temporary CO on the building because of that noncompliance
with their approved plan. So staff has kind of gone over the four required findings and
we could not find that a hardship was evident and we have recommended denial of it.
Corrie: Thank you, Brad. Council, any questions?
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: On the preliminary plat, did they submit a landscape plan then?
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September 3, 2002
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Hawkins-Clark: Councilwoman de Weerd, there was no plat, so the Conditional Use
Permit only --
De Weerd: Right. When they filed for their permit, though, did they submit any
landscaping plans at that time?
Hawkins-Clark: Yes. There was a conceptual plan approved with the conditional use
and then there was a detailed plan for landscaping approved with the certificate of
zoning compliance, which was with the building permit stage. So there is two different
sets, both of them showed the deciduous trees, not conifers.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Corrie: Okay. Is the applicant here this evening? Larry. Is the testimony you're about to
give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Van Hees: It is.
Corrie: Name and address, please, for the record.
Van Hees: My name is Larry Van Hees. I reside at 8870 North Gadwall, G-a-d-w-a-l-l,
Lane, Boise. 83714. Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, Will, attorney, staff, I want you
to know that it's been a long process and it's about three years ago that we started
doing plans and going through the approval process and it was a long process. We
started in February construction and the construction went awful fast. At the completion
of the project we were making decisions faster than we were capable of making them
and we did make a lot of changes and if you go out and look at the stone on the Arctic
Circle, the copper roof on the Arctic Circle, we did some very special things that we
thought that made that a really -- really a nicer looking project. It is family-owned, we
have a lot of pride in it, we try to keep it pretty well upbeat and in good shape. When
somebody came to us and suggested that we could get some ten and 12 foot conifer
trees, they are Austrian pines and maybe a couple of types, we were really thrilled to
death. I mean we saw no problem with it. All we could think is that it was a vast
improvement, because we were going to get the maturity that you questioned us about
right off the get go and make it look really good. We called two different landscapers
that we dealt with and we asked them about it and they just thought it was nothing but
good. Our landscape areas around where those trees are is 27 feet of green grass on
the Franklin Road side and 30 feet on the Linder side. So there is adequate room for
those trees to mature very well and still have room. You know, I don't spend a lot of time
there. Our manager is here, Jeffrey Hall. I do go in and out all the time. I go down and
wash my car there, I get my gas there, of course, and I talk to our customers and our
customers are our neighbors. They live -- I always walk up and ask them where do you
live, because I want to know who is buying our products and coming in and eating our
Arctic Circle hamburgers and washing their cars there and they are our neighbors and I
ask them, you know, what they like about it and what they don't like about it and I just
want you to know that they are very complimentary. They love the fact that it's there.
The main question they have is what took you so long. When I tell them the problem
with the trees, they are amazed and they tell me if you need help we will come and fight
Meridian City Council Meeting
September 3, 2002
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for you. We love it. We think it looks great. And I'm not trying to, you know, sway you
with that, although I hope it does. I just want you to know that if you go out there and
look at the project -- and I hope you have -- that it's a -- very much an asset to Meridian
and we are proud to be here. And I thank you very much. If you have any questions I
would be glad to answer them. And I want to tell you one thing, I didn't make changes to
the plans, the architect did those landscape plans and if I would have known there was
a problem, I want to tell you, I wouldn't be here tonight. I would have had the type of
trees that you wanted, but I like it better the way it is.
Corrie: Larry, the Council may have some questions. You have got a landscape back
there that's really nice looking. Why would you want to cover it with these trees that are
going to get -- if you come by my house you can see what happens to an evergreen.
They get so big you can't even see anything and you have got a nice place back there,
why would you want to put trees in front of it so you can't see it later? I mean it's --
Van Hees: Now I want to tell you, if you have been out there, it's not all conifers. We do
have deciduous trees. We have placed them at the entrances and there are some trees
and there are places to look and see through. I don't -- you know, if it's a problem,
Mayor, it's going to be a problem 15 or 20 years from now and if there are ugly and it's
easy to change at that time and I hope that we still own it at that time and I hope that
everything is just going great and we can make those changes if we need, but right now
for the next ten years -- you know, it takes ten years -- I'm in a subdivision and I have
been there for a little over ten years, and just now the trees are getting to the point
where they really look nice and these evergreens look nice today. If we need to make
some changes down the road sometime, we will make those changes, but right now it
does look very good and that was our goal is to make it look -- give it some maturity
right of the get go.
Corrie: Any other question?
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Larry, what will be the height of those trees do you believe when they are fully
matured?
Van Hees: I think probably a max of 30 feet. Right now they are ten to 12 feet and I
don't know -- you know, I have got some at my place that have been in for about 12
years now and they are only about, oh, I don't know -- I don't think they are 20 feet now.
They are 18 feet or so.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Mr. Van Hees, you have read the staff report; right?
Van Hees: I have.
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September 3, 2002
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Nary: Now is there anything in the ordinance -- you know, we get requests for variances
all the time, but I guess I'm looking at the staff comments and what the ordinance says
that we have to make a finding on and it appears to me that everything the staff's
comment is is that all the hardship or unusual circumstance or everything else is caused
by the fact that you planted the wrong tree.
Van Hees: I'm not here pleading hardship. I'm not here -- what I'm saying is is the
reason we did it, because we thought it looked better. If I would have known it was
against the rules, I would not have done it. They are in and if you say no way, you got to
take them out, we'll be at it as quickly as we can get taking them out, but I just want you
to know that I -- I really don't want to do that, because I don't think it's going to look as
nice now. And what I'm looking at is now and the next five to ten years and I don't think
it's going to be a problem in that time. I want to tell you, I -- even talking with the city
personnel, some of the people are saying they don't even know if this is a good
ordinance anyway, that maybe this needs some changes, that conifers do look better,
that they give you some green in the winter. When you get all the leaves -- and the
leaves are the ugliest thing we have to deal with anyway, because it gets in our down
spouts on our project and we have to clean them up and they are kind of nice and we
do have a mixture and we do have some deciduous trees on the site.
Nary: Brad, in reading the staff report, is it just certain locations where the deciduous
trees are -- or where these conifer trees are that's the problem? Can they move them to
other locations on the site and just can't have them in the street buffer area where the
deciduous trees are supposed to be or --
Hawkins-Clark: That's correct. The street buffer is where the ordinance specifically says
that the conifers are not allowed.
Nary: So they could move these to the buffer by the houses -- well, the houses -- but the
area -- I mean I drive by this all the time and I agree it does look nice there, but I mean
it's not that you can't use these in other locations, it's just where the street is, it, again,
provides safety, as well as other reasons that the landscape ordinance was written and I
guess I have a hard time finding any of the compliance things we have to find to grant
the variance.
Van Hees: We couldn't put them anyplace else on the site, because none of the other
landscaped areas are wide enough -- are large enough to support the trees with the
width you're talking about. In the street buffers they are 27 feet wide and they are 30
feet wide and there is adequate room.
McCandless: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. McCandless.
McCandless: I think, Larry, that the concern -- main concern -- and it is stated here that
the concern of the police department is the lack of visibility when they are driving by on
Linder and Franklin and whether they can see through it now -- I guess that would be
fine, but somewhere down the road there is going to be a safety issue.
Meridian City Council Meeting
September 3, 2002
Page 14 of 42
Van Hees: The police and the fire personnel frequent our place all the time. They come
in and they go out and Jeffrey can speak to that better than I can, but they never
expressed a concern at all for what we have done as far as our landscaping and I don't
know if he's ever asked them specifically and I haven't said, hey, is there a problem. I
have with my neighbors and they do like them and would support very strongly that we
keep the project looking like it does. I mean -- and I'm not going to fight really hard to
keep them. If you guys say, no, that it's absolutely against the rules -- I do know that I
have asked police personnel if they think it's a real problem -- not the police that
frequent our place out there -- and they are telling me that, you know, we have cameras
on site, we have a security system, we have cameras pointing to all of our fuel sites. We
actually have cameras to point at our car wash -- we have very good security on site
and as far as -- if they want to know if somebody is roaming around, they call us and we
have them on camera. They are not going to be there running around without us
knowing it. So I -- to me, that's not an issue. It's really not.
Corrie: You'd rather give up the trees rather than your Harley; right?
Van Hees: If you give me a choice, I'm going to keep my Harley.
De Weerd: I would, too.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor, I have a question for maybe Mr. Van Hees or his staff. Has there
been anybody look at what kind of shadow is going to be created on Franklin or Linder
in the wintertime with these trees happen to mature and how that might affect the snow
or ice melt?
Hawkins-Clark: Mayor, Mr. Nichols, I don't believe that Steve Siddoway did. He's, you
know, our landscape architect on staff and my understanding is he didn't look into that.
We do use Boise urban forestry's guide for establishing appropriate trees in street
buffers. My recollection is probably 30 feet might be a little short. I think maybe Austrian
pines get more like around 40 and so, you know, it would depend on -- I guess you're
right on the southwest corner. We would have to look into that to see what kind of
shadows. We did not do that.
Bird: Good point.
Corrie: Any other questions of Larry? Thank you, Larry. Is there anyone else from the
public that would like to issue testimony? Is the testimony you're about to give the truth,
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Hall: It is.
Corrie: Name and address, please.
Hall: Jeffrey Hall. I primarily live at Harks Corner, but my home address is 2178 South
Bear Tooth in Meridian. First of all, during the planning stages and the approval process
by Shell Oil, which took us just about as much time as it took to get the Conditional Use
Permit with you guys, we had to submit our plans. On our plans, our architect, number
Meridian City Council Meeting
September 3, 2002
Page 15 of 42
one, never did tell us about these trees and what types the City of Meridian -- and I'm
not putting the blame on him, but we really didn't know about this, so when we did
submit our final plans with our landscaping to Shell -- and we had to do this for a
process of obtaining funding from them, they give us X amount of funding to help our
project, help our landscaping, we did submit it with these trees, because -- and Larry
may not have emphasized on this, but I will, financial hardship. You know, we were way
over budget on this project, we were doing everything possible we could to assist in
helping us out getting this done. The trees -- when we heard the deal, yeah, we
definitely jumped on it as quick as possible and we did not even think for a second
about what type of trees we were supposed to have there and I'm sorry that we did not
do that. So now we are faced with this problem. To date we have had absolutely no
objections to the trees, we have had no complaints, and like Larry mentioned to you,
had nothing but excellent comments from people from both the public, neighbors,
customers, city officials, people that come in there. Joe Silva. The fire department.
Everybody thinks it looks absolutely beautiful. I believe when you sent this out for
comment to different agencies nobody had objections on this. And this is something that
it would, at this point, because I do handle the finances of Harks Corner, this would be a
financial hardship for us if we have to pull these trees out, whether Larry says we can
do it or not, that's -- you know, yes, we can do it, but it is going to cause a financial
hardship here. We are in a very tight period. The money we gave you to sit there for the
bond, that money could be used desperately bad right now and so, yeah, I'm going to --
my position on this is I would ask that you guys please to approve the variance and this
would definitely help us and I don't see any problem with this approval of the variance.
Thank you.
Corrie: Anyone else from the audience that would like to issue testimony? Okay.
Council, discussion? Okay. Hearing none, I will entertain a motion to close the Public
Hearing.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I got one question for Larry or Jeff, which ever one. I know 5,500 bucks is a cash
flow deal. Why did not you bond it? Why did you give us 55 in cash?
Larry: Well, I --
Bird: You're capable of getting bonds. You know about it in your business and you don't
tie up 5,500 dollars.
Larry: Well, I felt that the two months that I would have to wait for this hearing I would go
ahead and tie it up and it was just a choice I made. It was quicker.
Bird: Thank you, Larry.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor, I move that we close the Public Hearing.
Nary: Second.
Meridian City Council Meeting
September 3, 2002
Page 16 of 42
Corrie: Motion made and seconded to close the Public Hearing. Any other discussion?
All in favor of the motion say aye. Opposed no? All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: Discussion?
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd
De Weerd: I guess to move this along, I agree that -- I agree with staff. The
development looks very nice. You know, I don't think that is the question at all.
However, this Council has been working very hard to uphold the ordinances that we
have in place and there are some of them that probably do need to be revisited and we
would appreciate the public's input on those revisions, but our staff has their job and
that is to uphold the ordinances as they are written and I would agree in their staff
comments that it would be arbitrary if we approved this while we have denied other such
requests based upon the same reasons. When we look at this we have four different
criteria that are necessary to meet for granting a variance and those aren't met.
Whether we think or we believe that it's a very attractive landscaping, which it is, it's
hard to base a decision without being arbitrary on because it looks nice. It looks nice,
but it doesn't meet the ordinance and this request doesn't meet the intent of what the
variance section is used for and so, unfortunately, personal feelings are not usually
called for at this level and I guess that's my two cents worth.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I guess the only other thing I would say, too, to Mr. Van Hees and to Harks Corner
is I agree, I think it looks very nice as well, but how it looks at completion isn't part of this
ordinance. The whole intent of the variance -- and I know this wasn't any of your intent,
but the whole intent of the variance was to deal with these issues before they happen,
not after they happen. What I'm afraid is to apply it in your situation would encourage
other people who aren't quite so reputable, to do it and hope we will fix it and we have
had many people standing here before us for variances that did exactly that, they did it
wrong, they knew they were doing it wrong, and they hoped we'd make it right for them
and we denied them, too. And I hate to encourage bad behavior and I'm afraid, although
I know that was never your intent -- and, like I said, I know it does look very nice, I drive
by it, too, but that's what we would be doing is we would be making this and then we
would have to do it all the time on every one of them, everybody would built it and have
the same reason, because it looks nice and we decided we wanted to make it different
and we'd be kind of stuck and I think that would be very difficult to try to apply and I do
agree with Councilmember de Weerd that, you know, it's certainly something -- and the
staff even talks about that in looking at that and some revision of the landscape
ordinance, but I think here it was clear, it was already determined, it says that in our
ordinance, and here was a mistake that, unfortunately, was a miscommunication not
Meridian City Council Meeting
September 3, 2002
Page 17 of 42
necessarily with our folks, but with the landscape architect and some of those other
things it just happened and I know that's an expensive just happened and I'm not
downgrading that, but I'm just afraid that there isn't enough here to grant this variance
and we would encouraging a whole lot more people that aren't very reputable to do it
even worse if we granted this, so --
Corrie: Any other discussion?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Okay. Hearing none, I'll entertain a motion on the request for variance on the
landscape ordinance.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I'm going to move that we deny VAR 02-012, the request for variance of the
landscape ordinance to allow conifers in a landscape buffer at Harks Corner by Van
Hees Properties, at the southwest corner of Linder Road and West Franklin Road, for
counsel to prepare Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law, Decision and Order,
pursuant to the discussion tonight.
McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded to deny the variance request. Any
further discussion? Okay. Hearing none, roll-call vote, Mr. Berg.
Roll-call vote: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; DeWeerd, aye; Bird, aye.
Corrie: Okay. All ayes. Motion to request a variance denied.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Van Hees: Can I just say one thing? I thank you very much for considering it. I didn't
come it to twist your arms, but I knew I did wrong, but I sure like it.
Item 10: Public Hearing: VAR 02-013
Request for a Variance for a second time
Olsen Bush Subdivision
extension on the Preliminary Plat approval for
No. 2
by R2 Development – west of North Eagle Road, north of East
Franklin Road:
Corrie: Item No. 10 is a Public Hearing. This is a request for a variance for a second
time extension on the primary plat approval for Olsen Bush Subdivision No. 2 by R2
Development, west of North Eagle Road and north of east Franklin Road. At this time I
will open the Public Hearing on the variance request and have staff comments first.
Hawkins-Clark: Thank you, Mayor, Members of the Council. The staff report you're
referring to was written by Shari Stiles August 28th. The subdivision, as stated there,
Meridian City Council Meeting
September 3, 2002
Page 18 of 42
received final plat approval. This is Olsen Bush Subdivision off of Eagle Road south of
the railroad tracks. There are 12 existing lots in Olsen Bush Subdivision No. 1 and this
application tonight is regarding the Olsen Bush Subdivision No. 2, which is an additional
ten industrial lots that are to the west of what is currently there and platted today. The
applicant has already received one one year time extension to have the plat recorded at
the Ada County Recorder's Office. That was set to expire August 1st, 2002, and the
reason for this variance is you can only receive one time extension and a second one
does require a variance. So, again, to clarify the -- the application did refer to a
preliminary plat extension, but a review of our files anyway showed that it is a final plat
that was submitted to city and the City Council did approve it, so it's a time extension to
record. Staff's understanding is that they are ready to roll, they do have their civil
drawings pretty much all done, and been told that within, you know, one to two months
that we could probably see this come through the Planning and Zoning and Public
Works Departments. But the -- so we are recommending approval of the variance to
August 1st, 2003, provided that the applicant agrees to comply with all the ordinances
that are in effect at that time for future buildings in that subdivision.
Corrie: Thank you, Brad. Any questions of staff by Council?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Okay. Is the applicant here? Is the testimony you're about to give the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Miller: Yes.
Corrie: Name and address.
Miller: Brad Miller, 3084 East Lanark. I represent R2 Development, Incorporated. We
are the developers and the owners of the Olsen Bush Industrial Subdivision No. 2. We
have had a number easement problems on that property, which with the help of the
Mayor and City Council we got worked out with Elixir Industries and we had a delay in
getting the plans completed and approved, now everything is completed, approved, and
I would submit that we will be in for a precon meeting here in the next 30 days to get
this project going. So I'd ask that you extend it for one additional year. Any questions, I'd
be more than happy to answer them.
Corrie: Okay. Any questions?
Bird: I have none.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Why does it need to be a year? Can it be six months?
Miller: You know, I guess it could. I guess the problem that I have about it is I talked to
Shari about it and said, look, we are ready to go on this thing, do we even need to
Meridian City Council Meeting
September 3, 2002
Page 19 of 42
extend it and she says, yeah, by the time we get improvements completed and
everything in place, it would be expired and you wouldn't be able to record the final plat,
so I guess the reason I would say we may not be able to get it done in six months is if
we get a hard winter and we can't finish all the on-site improvements. That's the only
reason I asked for one year. Thank you very much.
Corrie: Thank you. Anyone else from the public that would like to issue testimony in
this? Okay.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Just one other question. I noted in the staff report it talks about the delay and
whether it's practical or unreasonable and those types of things. At least they didn't
have any reason why just recording the final plat has been such a problematic thing and
I note some of these other things that were talked, have they all just taken until now? It's
just taken until --
Miller: It really has. If I knew my engineer wasn't here for sure, I would point some
fingers, but I'm not going to do that, because I don't dare look behind me, he might be
sitting there staring at me.
Bird: I think it was just more than engineers, though.
Miller: Thank you.
Nary: Thank you.
Corrie: Any other questions?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I move we close the Public Hearing.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Okay. All in favor of the motion say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: Discussion on the request?
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Meridian City Council Meeting
September 3, 2002
Page 20 of 42
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I move we approve the request for variance with the time extension to
August 1st, 2002 -- or 2003 for Olsen Bush Subdivision No. 2 by R2 Development and
the attorney to draw up Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision of
Order.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded to approve the request for a
variance on the extension. Any further discussion? Hearing none, roll-call vote, Mr.
Berg.
Roll-call vote: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; DeWeerd, aye; Bird, aye.
Corrie: Okay. All ayes. Motion for the variance is approved.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 11: Public Hearing: MI 02-007
Request for approval of a 24 foot wide
Marcon
private road for the landlocked parcel by Elaine Martin –
northwest corner of North Linder Road and West Franklin Road:
Corrie: Item No. 11 is the last Public Hearing. This is a request for approval of a 24 foot
wide public road for the landlocked Marcon parcel by Elaine Martin, northwest corner of
North Linder Road and West Franklin Road. At this time I will open the Public Hearing
on the request and invite staff's comments first.
Hawkins-Clark: Thank you, Mayor and Members of the Council. The staff report written
by myself, dated August 30, is what we would request you refer to in any motion that
you make tonight. This would be -- would be helpful to have a map on this particular
one, but I will do my best to describe it. The parcel that is driving this is 13.8 acres and it
is landlocked. It is immediately north of the Interstate Battery on the north side of
Franklin Road, Eight Mile Lateral goes right behind that Interstate Battery and there is
three other lots in the Caporelli Subdivision.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: We do have it, Brad.
Hawkins-Clark: Do you? Okay.
De Weerd: In what we received today, so --
Hawkins-Clark: Okay. Good.
De Weerd: We have a visual in front of us.
Meridian City Council Meeting
September 3, 2002
Page 21 of 42
Hawkins-Clark: The visual is there. Okay. Well, the large parcel there is -- is the one
that is owned by the applicant and they are proposing in order to access the site to
create a new private street, which our ordinance does require City Council to approve
all private streets across Mr. Korn's two parcels as Haz-Tech Industries and there is one
-- the current building there, Haz-Tech, which fronts on Linder Road -- so the road is
proposed to go between the storage cubbies, which is currently going up right now, it's a
metal sided warehouse building, the road would be on the north side of that and on the
south side of the Haz-Tech building. So they are required to secure from the staff's
perspective legal access from a public street in order to -- in order to access the parcel.
They are proposing the street to be 24 feet wide within a 30 foot wide easement and
that is largely due to the site restrictions, because of the existing buildings and
landscaping. The applicant has dealt with the Highway District and they are not
requiring public road access to the site. They -- the thing driving it, they are proposing at
this point what we have classified as a contractor's yard to store concrete barricades,
the type that you see for the highway road projects as dividers. So, essentially, it would
just be a fenced large contractor's yard with no buildings right now are proposed. There
would be large trucks, of course, coming in off of Linder Road to haul these barricades
in and out of the site. We did offer a couple of considerations for you as you consider
this. The Haz-Tech parcels were illegally split, and so we have recommended a
condition there that the private street, before the second lot, which is the western most
lot of those two Haz-Tech parcels, which is currently vacant, that that would not be
permitted to take access off of this private street until they are appropriately platted. The
second additional consideration that we have on page two was use of the Martin parcel
and this -- this deals with -- the information on the private street technically has no
baring on the 13.8 acre parcel, so we are just saying that the applicant has included this
for the Council's interest. Since the parcel is annexed and deemed a buildable lot, the
applicant may submit directly for administrative approval for what they are proposing to
do. And then we did offer -- we do have some concern about the turning radius of Linder
Road onto that 24 foot wide street with the real long, you know, tractor-truck trailers. To
my understanding we haven't received anything in writing back from the applicant, but
they did get a report late, so we don't know if there is any issues. We do have eight
proposed conditions that would be tied to the approval of the private street. The fire
department has also submitted a memo to the Council with five conditions. They are
asking for no parking, fire lane on the private streets, and we are also asking for that.
Before they can actually go and develop this 13.8 acre parcel, which is currently in the
city, they could potentially come in and do a multi-building industrial project with, you
know, potentially, you know, hazardous or flammable materials, so we are saying that
before they would go for that kind of heavy use they would need to secure a second
access, most likely either to the south through the Caporelli Subdivision or through Van
Auker piece, which is immediately to the west. So I think that's all I have.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Brad, I thought that they had an easement for a road to that property through the
Caporelli sub. When we approved, Interstate Battery or something, there was -- maybe
you guys remember better than I do, but there was some kind of an easement given to
Meridian City Council Meeting
September 3, 2002
Page 22 of 42
them off of Franklin to this property when that was done. Does anybody recall that
besides me?
Hawkins-Clark: Councilman Bird, Mayor, that's correct. There is a 60 foot wide ingress-
egress easement on that very far east side. Yeah. Right next to Interstate Battery. And it
is platted that way. And Mr. Martin could probably go into it better, he's spent a lot more
time researching that easement than staff did, frankly, but the essence of it is that at the
final plat that the condition that that easement actually be dedicated to the Highway
District and improved as a public street was removed. It is not in the final plat
conditions. So the easement is still there, but the -- and Mr. Nichols may be able to give
some input, but it is strictly an ingress-egress and it is not necessarily something that
the Highway District is going to come in and say, yes, you know, you can dedicate this
and build a public street.
Bird: I'll let Mr. Nichols explain how that got off -- how that condition got off of the final
plat.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, I can't. I did have some conversation with
the applicant's attorney some time ago with regard to the access issue, but I don't
believe that how that condition got removed was part of what I looked at and so I can't
really speak to it.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: For approval on Interstate Battery in there, that condition was stuck in there for --
or they would not have been approved and how it can be removed off of the final plat
just baffles me. I mean not that -- I think it's very good to have an easement in from
Linder, too, but they do -- to my knowledge they have an easement off of Franklin Road
also and I thinking it was 60 feet and --
Hawkins-Clark: Yes.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: You know, I recall this conversation, because of the landlocked possibility,
and I guess I didn't read my findings very well to notice that that was dropped off. It is a
different issue than what's in front of us right now, but one that does need further
investigation and I don't know even, Mr. Nichols, if anything can be done at this point. Is
that a possibility? Is there something that you need to report back to us on, so we can
go ahead and consider what's in front of us now, but get a report later on on this other
issue?
Nichols: Yes, Councilwoman de Weerd. I just want to clarify something, though, with
Brad, if I may, Mr. Mayor.
Meridian City Council Meeting
September 3, 2002
Page 23 of 42
Corrie: Go ahead.
Nichols: The easement exists, the 60 foot easement does exist, and is shown on the
plat; correct?
Hawkins-Clark: Correct.
Nichols: What was dropped from the final plat approval was the easement should be
dedicated to ACHD with --
Hawkins-Clark: Development of the north parcel.
Nichols: Okay. That it be developed to ACHD standards as far as a roadway.
Hawkins-Clark: Yes. I need to check on that last portion, but essentially that's correct.
The -- at this point, since it is an easement, and we are also talking about a bridge that's
involved with this and not just -- they could even -- you know, they could get the full
access and improve it to ACHD standards, but it wouldn't do them any good if they
didn't construct the bridge across the Eight Mile, which is too large to be piped, so that's
somewhat of a secondary point, but --
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: The only reason I brought that up is because it is really a condition, because of this
staff wants the condition of another entryway at the point of developing it --
De Weerd: Before it can be developed.
Bird: -- before it can be developed and I just remember that we had given an easement
and a roadway back to that land so it wouldn't be landlocked and I don't think it's fair to
go to the guy on the west or whoever that is that says he has to given an easement or
something or they have to purchase one. This was a condition that we set up on
Interstate Battery or Caporelli sub to develop that.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: We got a packet of information from Mr. McColl earlier that I just started
looking through. I hate postponing anything, but I do think this really needs some further
investigation that maybe we can have answers next week. Oh, the applicant can maybe
answer some questions. That's right. You haven't talked yet, have you. We have been
talking. Okay. Well, I will shut up then. Sorry.
Corrie: Thank you. All right. Is the applicant -- Ms. Martin. Is the testimony you're about
to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Meridian City Council Meeting
September 3, 2002
Page 24 of 42
Martin: Yes.
Corrie: Name and address, please.
Martin: Elaine Martin. I reside at 2231 North Hickory Way in Meridian, Idaho, and
Marcon -- we purchased the ground in '98 and, yes, we very much wanted to have
public access to the ground. That was quite a battle. One we thought we had won. Still
thought we had won it in '99 and that we had -- at that time we thought we would have
public access both to the west at the 36 foot access we are asking for now and to the
south. We thought that in December of '99 that we were going to have public access
both ways and had offered to build both accesses to the people that owned them at the
time. In the spring of this year my pour yard, which is in downtown Boise, was
unexpectedly sold to the City of Boise to develop a park. I must move my entire pour
yard stock no later than 60 days from now and so I ask that we not delay anything that
we don't have to, because I'm definitely under a time frame crunch and when I found out
that I really didn't have public access either direction, I started looking for ground in
Boise and almost went that direction and almost bought ground and said, you know, I'll
just sell this. But when I really looked at the size of this piece of ground, it's the perfect
piece of ground for my companies -- our companies. If you will look at the pictures I put
around, the top two pictures there are the concrete storage that we need to move
immediately. That's what it looks like. It's the typical contractor's yard. We have stuff that
we sit there, we sell all of our product to and rent it to the state of Idaho. We are not a
public service, people don't come in and out every day buying things. Several times a
year we move stuff out, several times a year we move stuff back. So it's not a high use
that we are talking about here. I do have two people with me, because I am not the
expert. We will be represented by Lisa Rasmussen, who will represent Brian McColl.
For technical questions you can ask Justin Martin with Martin Development, he will be
overseeing the development of the ground. The design -- one of the things in the letter
that they asked about was 24 feet big enough for our trucks. I would have much rather
had 60, but, yes, 24 is big enough. That's what I have at my gate in my yard in Nampa, I
have five acres at Nampa, my gate is less than that, and I work with it fine. Haz-Tech is
using big trucks in there now without the full development width. They are already using
the big trucks in and out of there on a regular basis and, yes, my engineer says it's
absolutely doable with the offsets and the easements that are allowed for the road. I
would much rather have 60 feet, but I don't have it and we are willing to work with it and
feel that it will work. In the recommended conditions I do have a couple of concerns
there. Number one, they are stating restrictions for Haz-Tech. This -- kind of how we got
into this bind of my not having two public accesses now is -- access now, you know,
restrictions were put on this and all I can say is we can't speak for them and so if you
have a problem with Haz-Tech, we would ask that you just remember this and when
they come back in, you know, handle the question with them as you have it here.
Because our putting public access through there has nothing to do with how you handle
Haz-Tech at a later time. They have just given us the public access in exchange for all
the cost of doing it. On number four, it says in future development that we would close
off this lane entirely and only make it available for private use. My hope down the road
is to go through the complete process of combining both my downtown Boise yard and
my five acre Nampa yard into one large contractor's yard and I would really like the -- I
would very much like a 60 foot public access from some other direction, but, you know,
until I have it I won't do it. But the back access will not be my primary access, the 60
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September 3, 2002
Page 25 of 42
foot access from somewhere will be, but I ask that we not close it, because both for
emergency situations you don't have time to move off the item that you -- you know, you
say you block it. Well, if you block it, then you can't use it in an emergency and there are
sometimes when it would just be better to use that access. So I ask that you not block it.
Corrie: Thank you. Any questions at this time?
Bird: I have none.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Ms. Martin, I didn't see this in here, but the intent was to pave this 24 foot --
Martin: Absolutely. Our intent is to meet all the city conditions. We have no qualms with
meeting city conditions of trees --
Nary: I think I know where there is some conifer trees you could probably get.
Martin: I just cut down six, because they were in the way, so --
Nary: So the only -- your only concern for the conditions was, number one, because it
applies to -- partly to Haz-Tech property --
Martin: Yes.
Nary: -- and then I guess I was unclear on your number -- your concern about number
four was that even if you have -- you want to be able to expand the use of this property
without having the 60 foot access?
Martin: No. No. No.
Nary: You'd like to have that?
Martin: Yeah. I realize that I can't expand the use beyond the contractor's yard and I
don't want to use a contractor's yard without some sort of other access, but, yes, my
Marcon companies, both Marcon Prefab and Marcon, Inc., can handle it easily with just
this private lane, but I would totally say that should I ever do anything other than a
contractor's yard, absolutely, that I should have -- and be predominant to use the 60 foot
public access somewhere, but I don't want to have part of this be that I absolutely have
to shut it off. I think that should be determined at the time that the development goes on
and so I don't want to preclude something happening down the road, because this may
be totally the perfect access later.
Nary: So if number four says something to the effect that you would have to make it only
emergency access and use only as a private street restricted access unless you had
specific approval from this Council, that would probably be fine?
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September 3, 2002
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Martin: Not really. I'd rather have it say the other direction. I'd rather have it go the other
direction, that unless this Council, when we do the next phase -- should we do the next
phase, which is never to say we may, but should we do the next phase and go beyond
this small yard, at that time -- all right. That's the way, but should we subdivide it -- in
other words, if there is more than me there, I would say at that time that it, you know, be
required to be brought up again. But unless I subdivide it I say, you know, that it be a
secondary access regardless. If I get access -- I'm only my contractor's yard. If I get 60
foot access, I'm going to still want this private access that I have spent tens of
thousands of dollars creating, because I'm going to put my office probably at that end.
Nary: I guess that's different than what this is saying.
Martin: Yeah.
Nary: What appears what I think the staff is saying -- and Mr. Hawkins-Clark can correct
me, but all they are asking is that if you're going to expand the use from what you're
asking now, that there be a public access and this current road only be for limited
emergency access and the like.
Martin: And I'd really like to agree, but I would really like --
Nary: I know what you would really like, but what I'm -- I guess to me what's more
halfway is that we could talk about what's the use and what's the most practical way to
apply it and what's a good access road and all that stuff at that juncture, but if they are
going to expand the use, we are going to have to have that conversation at some point,
whether you have -- I guess the issue is whether you're just permitted to use it without
us intervening, which is somewhat cumbersome for Council's sake and the city to
intervene in, than the other way, you can't do it unless you come ask us to change it.
Martin: And I can see your point, but what I'm going to do is I'm going to let the experts
talk about it. If I disagree I'll yell at them, but we will let them answer the question on
that, because it's more technical than -- like I say, I just -- my own thought would be
hemmed in, because I want two accesses and I don't want to have to put a barrier there
area that I actually have to move something to get out and I'm very concerned about
that.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: This is a question to throw out and I have to agree with Ms. Martin, that -- and
maybe I'm not reading this right, but if you subdivide that and say she leaves her
Marcon lot In the back, she still needs access, and I agree that we need the two
accesses. I can't see where that would become -- it could stay a private, but I don't
know why we would want it to go to an emergency only. I mean if it's 24 feet wide, it
could be a private to get into the back, the main access come off of Franklin Road or
where ever, which they have got a 60 foot easement, and on that same lines you know
that we give the easement, but you would be responsible for putting the bridge in.
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September 3, 2002
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Martin: Absolutely. And as I said, I was totally prepared to do so, I had plans, I had
specs, we had put it out and were ready to bid it when I found out it was no longer to be
a public easement.
Bird: Surprised us, too. I have no more.
Corrie: Okay. Thank you. Is there anyone else that would like to issue testimony? You
have three minutes. Raise your right hand, please. Is the testimony you're about to give
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Rasmussen: Yes.
Corrie: Name and address, please.
Rasmussen: Lisa Rasmussen. I work for Wilson & McColl, 120 West Washington,
Boise, Idaho, and I am an attorney, I'm here representing Elaine Martin, and so have
more to offer in the way of argument versus testimony, but if I could just briefly
summarize some of the history, address some of the questions that you had about what
happened with the other accesses. The history of this parcel goes back quite a ways,
obviously, and prior to it being annexed into the City of Meridian it was 20 acres, it was
subdivided, six acres was on one side of the canal, 14 acres on the other side of the
canal. Ms. Martin now owns the 14 acre parcel that's on the other side of the canal.
There was a 60 foot easement that ran across the six acres to the 14 acre parcel. That
easement was originally, I believe, a condition for approval of the plat -- on the final --
or, actually, the final plat of the Caporelli Subdivision. Why it got dropped off I don't
know, but it is not a condition -- it was not a condition of the approval of that subdivision.
So while Ms. Martin does have an easement across the property, she does not have the
right to construct on that easement and she has tried to negotiate -- Justin Martin, the
developer, could answer more questions about that, but they have tried to negotiate an
agreement with the owner of that property and cannot get their approval to construct on
that easement. So the fact that it wasn't a condition on the subdivision plat has halted
that -- that happening and her getting access to her property across the Caporelli
parcel. At one point in time there was a 60 foot easement across the -- where the
easement is that we are talking about tonight, but because of the building permits being
granted and the placement of buildings where they are on the -- on the Haz-Tech
property, there is no way to get 60 feet there, the most they can do is 30 feet, and they
have negotiated that easement agreement and are here asking to build the 24 foot road.
So I hope that answers some of the questions about why we are in the predicament that
we are in, but they are pretty much -- they have one option now and that's a 24 foot
road to build on. I'd like to talk about some of the conditions, answer your questions
about -- I apologize, if I might have some additional time.
Corrie: You have three minutes.
Rasmussen: Okay.
Corrie: That's it. I'm sorry.
Rasmussen: Okay.
Meridian City Council Meeting
September 3, 2002
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Corrie: Unless they have questions.
Rasmussen: We would ask that -- that condition number one be struck and condition
number four be struck from the recommended conditions. Number four, especially. And
I would answer any question that you might have at this time.
Corrie: Any other questions?
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
Corrie: Okay. No further questions? We do have a history in front of us as well, so --
Anyone else? Is the testimony you're about to give the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help you God?
J.Martin: Yes.
Corrie: Name and address, please.
J.Martin: I'm Justin Martin, I live at 5606 North Ten Mile Road.
Corrie: You have three minutes, Justin.
J.Martin: The only reason I come up is she didn't have time to go through the
recommendations on the staff report. Number one definitely isn't related to us. This
should be handled when they come in for a certificate of zoning compliance staff be
able to realize that they are going to deny that, which would send them on to Council
and Planning and Zoning for a subdivision. It doesn't make any sense to me to have
that requirement in our number one. Number two is fine. Number three the word blanket
easement should be more specific related to access and maintenance of the sewer and
water. Number four I definitely think should be struck in its entirety. We know that we
are not going to be able to subdivide that property into multiple commercial lots and be
able to go out there and use that road that we are applying for right now. But we don't
want to be held back from the ability to expand the one user yard. Anyway, that's our
comment there. Number five is fine. Number six is fine. Number seven is fine. Number
eight, West Taylor Lane should be Marcon Lane. I had submitted for a certificate of
zoning compliance as of today that has a more specific detailed plan that shows Marcon
Lane on that plan, it shows the fire turnaround access at the end, shows the radius
turns on Linder Road, which were also talking about in this thing. And finally number five
on the Meridian Fire Department's list, any future development of this parcel will require
two separate means of ingress and egress. I talked with Joe Silva today and I also
talked with Chief Bowers right before the hearing started tonight and made sure that the
word any future development was related to the subdivision of the property, not our
contractor's yard changing things or adding a concrete pad or anything that may require
a building permit from us, only if we subdivided this parcel. I'm trying to get multiple
users out of there -- would be required to have a second point of access. We realize
that some day in the future that we are going to need that access to Franklin or to
Linder in a normal width and there is various reasons why we don't have that now, but
we haven't given up hope that we are going to need that in the future. I would
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September 3, 2002
Page 29 of 42
appreciate it if you could see fit to approve this tonight. We definitely don't have a lot of
time to deal with and the issues related tonight -- I mean there is a lot of issues with this,
but as far as this one private street goes, it seems fairly simple and concise. I know
there is a lot of other issues that kind of go along with it, but they don't relate to the
issue tonight. That's it. I'll stand for any questions.
Corrie: Any questions?
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
Corrie: All right. Thank you. Is there anyone else from the public that would like to issue
testimony? You have already been sworn in once. Give your name and address,
please.
Miller: Brad Miller. 3084 East Lanark in Meridian. We own the 43 acres directly to the
west of this property, contiguous to the west. We are in strong support of this. Marcon is
a great company and to have them in the City of Meridian would be a great asset to the
city. We at some future date will be talking with Elaine and Justin about the possibility of
doing a joint road. On the 17th of this month you will be hearing from us on a proposal
from Sanitary Services within which we plan to sub -- or to create a 12-acre parcel for
Sanitary Services to locate on and we are thinking along the easterly boundary of our
property we will put a road in there. And if can get with Mr. Bevins and also with Elaine
and Justin, it might make sense to do a joint road right there, so we would be more than
happy to talk with them and provide that access at a future date off of Franklin Road. So
we are in strong support of their project and I would ask that Council please approve
their request this evening. Thank you.
Corrie: Thank you, Brad. Any questions of Brad? Thank you, Brad. Anyone else? Okay.
Council, any questions?
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I have a question for Brad. On this condition number one that we have talked
about quite a bit, why is it there? It doesn't appear to apply to this. It doesn't even
appear to apply as notice to the people who would own this property, so --
Hawkins-Clark: Councilman Nary, the reason it's there is because that is the property on
which the easement lies.
Nary: Okay. But I'm saying is even a future owner of this property -- I mean if the intent
was to give notice to others, this property owner or a future property owner, as to what
use they can use their property for and how they would access it, this doesn't tell them
that. This says that this has something to do with Haz-Tech. They have to do something
for Haz-Tech to use it and that's the way I'm reading it. Now am I just reading it wrong?
It says the existing vacant parcel owned by Haz-Tech on which this easement lies will
not be granted any building permits, but that doesn't apply to this property owner, that
applies to the Haz-Tech property owner and is prohibited from accessing that property
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September 3, 2002
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and the Haz-Tech owner can't access the proposed private street until they subdivide
their property. So this property owner or a future property owner from these people, this
won't apply to them at all, it only applies to Haz-Tech, but I guess it doesn't appear to
serve -- what purpose I would say think would be a notice to them or the future owners
of what they could do with their own property, it just applies to Haz-Tech. So I'm not
sure if we delete it it's going to have any impact.
Hawkins-Clark: I don't know that -- that, you know, I fully disagree. I mean I think the
reason that it's there is the ownership of the property, if I understand it right, is Haz-
Tech. I mean those are the deeds that were submitted with this application. The private
street will -- you know, is an easement that is in favor, certainly, of the Marcon piece
and some this is a -- you know, is a tracking issue and certainly, you know, we can
internally, you know, develop some kind of mechanism to make sure that that is -- that
they are informed. But we -- and maybe it should have been an additional consideration,
rather than a condition, to inform the owner of the property who submits this application
that this was something that needed to be raised to the surface, I guess.
Nary: Yeah. I guess -- I mean to me if it had a relationship to the Marcon property, if it
was that they can't -- that the -- so a future owner would look at it and be able to know
that that road doesn't belong to this property and that it's an access by easement that
belongs to another parcel or something like that at this time -- I guess it just needs to be
redone. It just doesn't relate enough to this property, so I could see why they would
object to that and maybe we could come up with something to provide this as notice,
like you said, rather than a condition of approval. Is that term blanket easement that was
brought up by Mr. Martin, is that a term in our ordinance or is it just -- I'm assuming you
just meant it's to be an easement that's all-encompassing for any utility, any fire, any
emergency, isn't that what it's for?
Hawkins-Clark: Yes. That's what it is.
Nary: Is that the term we use for it?
Hawkins-Clark: It is a common term seen on subdivision plats, yes.
Nary: Okay. Okay. And on the fourth one, again, there seems to be a lot of contention
about -- is the intent to deal with subdividing the property in the future or expanding and
making a more intensive use even if they didn't subdivide it?
Hawkins-Clark: My main concern with the word subdivide is, you know, potentially you
could do a planned development and do multiple buildings on that lot without
subdividing. That is allowed under our code. Not to say that they have that intention, but
certainly somebody in ten years could come around, buy it, and put ten buildings on
there with a Conditional Use Permit, and they wouldn't have to subdivide it. So if you
say subdivide --
Nary: So it wasn't subdivision that was the key, it was the expanding the use beyond
what this is today, which is a contractor yard?
Hawkins-Clark: Right.
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September 3, 2002
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Nary: Okay.
Hawkins-Clark: Yeah. We have no opposition to making some adjustments to that, if
Council so desires. That's fine.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, I'm wondering if on the first condition if it
would not be perhaps better to say that approval of the private street does not confer
legal status on that other parcel, nor necessarily city approval of access from that parcel
onto that private street. If that satisfies staff's concerns and is not really a condition, then
that might address that. And then with regard to the fourth condition, I'm wondering if
the last sentence can just be left off and the first sentence left on and that -- or whether
that satisfies staff.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: As I understood it from the applicant, the biggest thing was -- on that number four
was that they didn't -- they didn't want it to become just an emergency access road, they
wanted it to remain a private road regardless of how they did it, and I agree with Mr.
Nichols, that that -- if we just eliminated that last sentence, Brad, that would take care of
their concerns and to my thinking that would probably be fine.
Hawkins-Clark: I agree.
Corrie: I need the applicant at this time.
Martin: Elaine Martin.
Corrie: Thank you.
Martin: 2231 North Hickory Road -- or Hickory Way in Meridian. Justin has more of the
wording you need for it. My concern is with the entire thing, who determines what low
intensity is versus immediate intensity? In other words, I don't want -- I don't want to be
limited. I mean I do certain stuff in Nampa and I do certain stuff in Boise and my intent is
not to do more than I do at either one of these places, but how do you determine
whether that's low or medium? I'm just saying I don't want to do anymore than I'm
presently doing, I just -- but the word low intensity could be misinterpreted later.
Corrie: That's your -- now we can address the -- I just wanted to get it in the proper
order here, so -- then we will address the question to you, Justin.
J.Martin: Justin Martin. 5606 North Ten Mile Road. So we did have some concern with
both sentences in that section. The first sentence says that it can only serve as a
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September 3, 2002
Page 32 of 42
contractor's yard, similar low intensity use. The applicant shall, prior to any development
of the Martin parcel, secure a public street access. So you could construe any
development of the Martin parcel in any way you wanted it if it's way too big. I think that
we could be fine in saying that we are not going to subdivide the parcel and you also --
Brad, you brought up something about going through the PD ordinance and so we
would want anything approved that we could come in with a building permit, one user,
one yard, you know what I'm saying?
Hawkins-Clark: Uh-huh.
J.Martin: And then a second sentence -- yeah, we just see no reason to cut that second
access off. We agree that we need another access and that we will work towards that.
We know we can't develop this property to streets and multiple lots and multiple users
until at what time we have that. Fire won't allow it and the city won't allow it. You know,
we agree with that. But we would like to be able to expand the horizons of this
contractor's yard, it's so needed, with one owner. I don't know anything we need to get a
building permit on in the future. We are a growing company, we don't want to have to go
buy access through Interstate Battery, actually buy the building to get access out there
to actually ever get future use or expanded future use.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Justin, it reads with the exception of an accessory office building to serve only the
contractor's yard for similar use. How about if we just took out the low density. The thing
is -- and I have no -- I have no problem with you guys, but it's like Brad says, if you
decide this -- somebody comes in and offers you enough money and you find some
other ground for your stuff that's cheaper, there is nothing to say you won't sell it and
then -- so we have to -- we have to be able to protect this to a degree and I don't think
we are hurting you there if we take out that low intensity use, if we just put a similar use.
The applicant shall, prior to development, secure a public street access to said parcel.
J.Martin: So I'm not sure how it relates -- maybe you can explain how it relates even
better, but I know that if we -- I just wanted to go to the point of -- I realize somebody
else could come in and not be a one user, get a building permit -- if we go and get a
building permit on the property for a shop and an office building, at that point if we sell
an industrial place can't come in and build a huge warehouse? Can they have 500
employees? I mean it's just not going to happen; right? I don't see the concern, unless
we actually subdivide or go through the PD process.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I guess courts have to decide all the time what's an expanded use, so if the
sentence read: Any expanded use, with the exception of an accessory office building or
similar use, the applicant shall, prior to any development, secure a public street access.
That allows -- I mean I recognize there is no -- there is no particular objective checked
Meridian City Council Meeting
September 3, 2002
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off boxes for what an expanded use is, but the court has to determine that all the time
as to what it is and our concern is exactly I think what Mr. Bird just said -- it's not your
company, but someone else just coming in and expanding it without us having some
ability to come back and say, no, you have to have this, you have to have a second
access. The only thing is is just the expanded, rather than low intensity.
J.Martin: I somewhat agree. We could have -- in Becky Bowcutt's opinion and Brian
McColl's opinion, we didn't have to come before Council to get the use we have now,
we could have had a private drive through that property to our parcel. Shari Stiles,
Planning and Zoning staff, had the ability to tell us that we are not going to approve your
certificate of zoning compliance and that we would have had to bring that -- that in front
of the Council anyway, because Shari told us she would deny it. It seems that staff has
the ability to make those calls, just like they have done to us here.
Nary: But that may not always be the case.
J.Martin: We'd still be back in front of you -- they can say no and may not be able to field
it at the Planning and Zoning director position, which is a route we didn't go, but would
have been the case. I think Lisa would be better suited to answer the legal question. I
mean I just don't have the legal knowledge of what we are asking for in that respect.
Bird: We have two of them and we don't either.
Corrie: You want to ask the question to counsel or counsel?
Nary: Well, if you heard what I said as to what I have been saying this evening is just to
deal with -- that as long as it wasn't an expanded use.
Rasmussen: My problem legally looking at this condition is that you're saying prior to
any development and you're saying an expanded use of the Martin parcel they'd have to
secure a public street access to said parcel. Looking at your zoning ordinances, if you
look at the definitions of what a lot is and, you know, also the categories of light
industrial uses, none of them require that you have to have a public street access. All it
says that you have to have a private or a public street and so the problem that I have,
especially given the circumstances that we find ourselves in, is that there is going to be
a condition that before you can use this property you have to have a public street
coming into your parcel when that isn't a requirement of the zoning ordinance itself and I
-- you know, the applicants here are being very cooperative and probably would agree
to, like they said, work with people to the west or whatever, but the way things are right
now, they don't have that option of bringing the public road in, unless they can buy --
you know, buy their way through somebody's property and where it's not a requirement
of your zoning ordinance, I don't know how it can be a condition of the approval here
tonight.
Nary: Because the requirement here is talking about expanding use. If they want to
maintain the use or maintain a similar use, they don't have to change anything, they
don't have to do that.
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September 3, 2002
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Rasmussen: As long as they are in compliance with -- as long as they are doing an
industrial -- light industrial -- they are using the property for light industrial purposes,
they shouldn't have to obtain a public road into that property.
Nary: Right. So that wouldn't be an expanded use.
Rasmussen: Correct.
Nary: That's all we are saying. If it's going to be anything more than that, then they will
need public access.
Rasmussen: More than a light industrial, then they'd have to, you know -- actually, yeah.
Nary: That's what I said.
Rasmussen: Okay.
Bird: But we are trying to get the wording that says that, just to protect future councils
and future staff and future owners of the deal, like we didn't do, evidently, on the 60 foot
easement.
Rasmussen: So maybe if the wording can, instead, be low intensity use, say light
industrial use and keeping it in line with what the zoning ordinance says.
Nary: What I was proposing is that it would say any expanded use, with the exception of
an accessory office building or similar -- and you can put light industrial use if you want.
I just thought use is fine, but light industrial use is fine. The applicant shall, prior to any
development, secure a public street access. So if they are going to expand it larger than
this, to something different than a light industrial use, then they need to have another
access.
Rasmussen: And I would just assume that that would be part of that application
process, that -- because I can't speak to every possible scenario that could come before
you -- you know, if they come back and want to use it for manufacturing purposes, I'd
have to look in the code to see does a manufacturing -- if they want to manufacture on
this piece of parcel -- or this piece of ground, do they need a public road and I don't
know the answer to that tonight. I could look real quick, but --
Nary: But all we would be doing is giving notice to this property owner or any other
property owner if you're going to do something, here -- this you will have. Whether the
ordinance is different in two or three years from now or the table of uses is different, I
don't know. But you will have this saying if you're going to do more than what you see
out in front of you today, you buy that property, you might have to go get another
access.
Rasmussen: You might have to.
Bird: You might have to, yes.
Meridian City Council Meeting
September 3, 2002
Page 35 of 42
Nary: If it's something more. And that way at least they have notice.
Rasmussen: Okay.
Corrie: You need to speak into the mike.
Rasmussen: He says as long as -- light industrial use is fine or the way that you worded
this condition that they don't have --
Corrie: All right.
De Weerd: Make sure you take a look at the findings and make sure.
Corrie: Any other testimony? Council?
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Now on number four how did we change that? Let's get that down for the record.
Nary: Any expanded use, with the exception of an accessory office building or similar
light industrial use, the applicant shall, prior to any development, secure a public street
access to said parcel.
Bird: I thought it would be light industrial.
Nary: Or light industrial use.
Bird: Okay.
Nary: Light industrial use.
Bird: And you have got that wrote down when you make the motion, Mr. Nary.
Nary: Actually, I think Mr. Nichols would write it down.
Bird: But he can't make the motion.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor? Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, could we insert the word other
in front of the word development, so it says any other development, so that it doesn't
look like the accessory -- no accessory building --
Bird: Yeah.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, I rely upon Mr. Willis to get it.
Corrie: Okay.
Meridian City Council Meeting
September 3, 2002
Page 36 of 42
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: Perhaps Mr. Nichols can also read number one as well, the suggested
language you have for that, too.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, it would be approval of this private street
does not constitute city approval of access for parcel number S1211449010. Period.
Bird: That's right. Number one condition.
Nary: It actually could probably be just a consideration and not a condition.
Bird: Is that wording okay with their lawyer?
Corrie: I see she's shaking her head. I assume that that is affirmative. All right. Okay.
De Weerd: Note that on the record, Mr. Willis, that she said yes.
Corrie: Okay. If there is no more testimony, I will entertain a motion to close the Public
Hearing.
Nary: So moved.
McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion made and seconded to close the Public --
Bird: Before we vote -- go ahead, Mayor.
Corrie: -- to close the Public Hearing. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion
carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: Okay. Mr. Bird.
Bird: Well, I wanted it before we closed it. I wanted to --
Corrie: Oh, I'm sorry.
Bird: They had a -- that's okay. I mean Kenneth can answer this. They had talked about
a future development of this parcel required two separate egress on it, which was a
condition of the fire department, item number five. Justin addressed that as not -- and I
think we probably took care of it in our recommendations, so I don't need -- think it
needs to be probably up to the fire department recommendation.
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September 3, 2002
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Bowers: Mayor Corrie and City Council Members, Councilman Bird, yeah, that will be
fine. We were just afraid that there would be other development back there and we
wouldn't have two accesses to it. You first start off the road is over 600 feet and you
don't even get to the turnaround, so that road could be 1,000 feet, it could be 1,100 feet
clear to the back, so that's what we were concerned about. Yeah.
Bird: But I think our recommendation if any expansion takes care of that number five of
the fire department.
Bowers: Yes.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: We can simply reference in the fire department recommendation that it be
consistent with the condition of approval.
Bird: That's right.
Corrie: Any other discussion?
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
Corrie: All right. Hearing no other discussion, Council, who wants to take a crack at the
motion?
De Weerd: The attorney.
Bird: The attorney.
Corrie: Which one?
Bird: The one that can. The one that can.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I'd move the approval of MI 02-007, the request for approval of a 24 foot wide
private road for the landlocked parcel by Elaine Martin at the northwest corner of North
Linder Road and West Franklin Road pursuant to the staff report dated August 30th,
with the following amendments: That condition one be deleted as a condition, but it be
also included as an additional consideration, the language to include that approval of
the private street does not constitute approval of city access to parcel number
S1211449010; that the other conditions as presented and renumbered to include now
what was number four would now be number three and it would now read: Any
expanded use, with the exception of an accessory office building or light -- or other light
industrial use, the applicant shall, prior to any other development, secure a public street
Meridian City Council Meeting
September 3, 2002
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access to said parcel. All the other conditions are as written. And for counsel to prepare
Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision and Order from all of that mess.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded. I will not repeat it. Any further
discussion?
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? On item --
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: On item number eight, now renumbered seven, it should be noted that it's
not Taylor Lane, but Marcon Lane.
Nary: Oh.
Corrie: Okay. With that added -- okay with the second?
Bird: I second.
Corrie: Okay.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor, just one more on the fire department's comments, that their
number five would reflect the new numbers -- new rewritten number three.
Nary: The fire department condition would include language that it would be consistent
with condition of approval.
Bird: Second agrees.
Corrie: Any other discussion? Corrections? All right. Hearing none, roll-call vote, Mr.
Berg.
Roll-call vote: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; DeWeerd, aye; Bird, aye.
Corrie: Okay. Motion is approved with conditions and we will see how the Findings of
Facts and Conclusions of Law come out.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: On this item, I would still like staff to do a little further research on how that --
how we lost the easement and the roadway from the Interstate Battery application and if
there can be a little further investigation on that, it would be appreciated.
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September 3, 2002
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Bird: This Council member would second that.
Corrie: I was under the understanding that you were going to do that anyway with what
Council came across, so thank you, Mrs. de Weerd. Okay. That concludes the agenda
for tonight. I will entertain a motion for adjournment if we have nothing else.
Bird: So moved.
McCandless: Second.
Nary: Second.
Corrie: Moved and seconded for adjournment. All those in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: 9:10 p.m.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 8:34 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
APPROVED
___________________________ ________________________
ROBERT CORRIE, MAYOR WILL BERG, CITY CLERK