HomeMy WebLinkAbout2002 09-17
Meridian City Council Meeting September 17, 2002
The regular meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:25 P.M.,
Tuesday, September 17, 2002, by Mayor Robert D. Corrie.
Members Present: Mayor Robert Corrie, Tammy de Weerd, Keith Bird, Cherie
McCandless and William Nary.
Others Present: Bill Nichols, Mike Worley, Steve Siddoway, Gary Smith, Brad Watson,
Will Berg, Stacy Kilchenmann, Lisa Arreola, Ken Bowers, and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
__X Tammy de Weerd _ X__ Bill Nary
__X Cherie McCandless __X Keith Bird
__X Mayor Robert Corrie
Corrie: Okay. At this time I will open the City Council regular meeting agenda on
Tuesday, September the 17th, 2002. And I apologize to the group here, we are about
25 minutes late, but at 7:25. At this time I'd like to have the roll call attendance, please,
by the city clerk.
Item 2: Adoption of the Agenda:
Corrie: Okay. Thank you. Council, you have the agenda for tonight in front of you. Is
there any changes or corrections to that agenda?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Okay.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I'd move we adopt the agenda as noted.
McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded to adopt the agenda as stated. All in
favor say aye. Opposed no? All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 3: Consent Agenda:
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September 17, 2002
Page 2 of 65
A. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP
02-020
Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a professional
The Designing Team Salon
beauty salon in an R-15 zone for by
the Designing Team Inc. – 1226 East 2 ½ Street:
B. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: VAR
02-011
Request for a Variance to the parking ordinances and
The Designing Team Salon
Landscape Ordinance for by the
Designing Team, Inc. – 1226 East 2 ½ Street:
C. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Denial: VAR 02-
012
Request for a Variance to the Landscape Ordinance to allow
Harks Corner
conifers in the landscape buffer at by Van Hees
Properties, LLC – southwest corner of South Linder Road and West
Franklin Road:
D. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: VAR
02-013
Request for a Variance for a second time extension on the
Olsen Bush Subdivision No. 2
Preliminary Plat approval for by R2
Development – west of North Eagle Road, north of East Franklin
Road:
E. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: MI 02-
007
Request for approval of a 24 foot wide private road for the
Marcon
landlocked parcel by Elaine Martin – northwest corner of
North Linder Road and West Franklin Road:
F. Resolution No. : Adopting Purchasing
Policy:
G. Annual CPI Rate Adjustment for Solid Waste Collection
Services by Sanitary Services Company:
H. Linder Crossing Sewer and Water Main Easement –
Stubblefield Development:
I. Agreement for Roadway Construction / Sewer & Water Line
Improvements – Overland Road, East of Meridian Road to east
of Eagle Road – ACHD Project No. 502005:
J. Re-Approval of Easement, South Slough Sewer & Water
Project – Dixie Roberts:
K. Resolution No. : 2002 Public Works
Standard Specifications & Drawings:
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September 17, 2002
Page 3 of 65
Corrie: The next is the Consent Agenda. Is there anything on the Consent Agenda,
other than the two resolution numbers that are still left? Mr. Bird, what will be the first
resolution under Adopting Purchasing Policy?
Berg: Mr. Mayor, 02-389.
Corrie: Okay. And the next one will be 02-390?
Berg: Yes.
Corrie: Okay.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, I think the resolution on the public works
design standards may have a date and it needs to be specified as to when it is
effective.
Corrie: Oh, on that resolution you mean?
Nichols: Yes. So I'd ask you to look at that, to include in the motion on the Consent
Agenda what that date would be, but -- right. Section two on page two, it needs to have
an effective date and I didn't know if this would affect contractors or those that might
have projects in the design stage, therefore, rather than have it become effective
immediately, I left -- purposely left that blank, so that the Public Works Department can
indicate to Council when it should be effective.
Corrie: Gary?
Smith: Mayor, Council Members, we will distribute the new documents to all of those
entities that presently have our standard specifications, along with a disk for the
standard details that they will use on preparation of plans. Obviously, the plans that we
have in the process right now won't be subject to this -- these new specifications. I
would suspect that -- we have tried to keep the engineering firms up to date as far as
what our specifications are. This is kind of a compilation of -- a final compilation of the
documents. I don't know whether 30 days from this point would be -- that should be
enough time.
Bird: October 15th or November 1st, which would be the best?
Smith: Let's go with October 15th.
Corrie: Okay. Any further discussion on the Consent Agenda?
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September 17, 2002
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Bird: I have none.
Corrie: I will entertain a motion on the Consent Agenda.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would move we approve the Consent Agenda, which includes Resolution 02-
389, Adopting the Purchasing Policy, and also Resolution 02-390, Public Works
Standard Specification drawings and that is to take effect on October 15th, 2002, and
on all papers to authorize the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest.
De Weerd: Second.
Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded on the motion for the Consent Agenda.
Any further discussion? Hearing none, roll-call vote, Mr. Berg.
Roll-call vote: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; DeWeerd, aye; Bird, aye.
Corrie: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 4: Department Reports:
A. Public Works Department:
1. Transportation Task Force Committee Report:
Corrie: Item No. 4 is Department Reports. A: Public Works Department, No. 1,
Transportation Task Force Committee Report.
Smith: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Council Members. Item 4-A-1 is the Transportation Task
Force Committee Report. The City of Meridian Transportation Task Force met on
September the 5th of this year and we met at Compass's offices in here in Meridian.
The listing of the committee members that attended that meeting are in paragraph two
of the memo that I put together. What I have given you is a recap of last year's
prioritization of our projects for transportation improvement, along with the new
prioritization as determined by this committee at the September 5th meeting. The
Compass organization has requested that we have a finalized report in their hands no
later than October 31st, so that they can present this information to Ada County
Highway District and ITD for inclusion into the five year work program and into the
transportation improvement program at ITD. Have you had time to review this and do
you have any questions or do you want me to go through this item by item, if that's
necessary? We did take a couple of things out of the project -- out of the prioritization of
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September 17, 2002
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projects that was submitted to agencies last year. They were removed, because they
were either, one, under construction or -- and being completed, such as the signal at
the west -- or the eastbound off-ramp of I-84 and Kuna-Meridian Road, or they were in
final design stage and getting ready for bid, which is the situation with Overland Road
from Eagle to Kuna-Meridian Road. The signal lights that were prioritized last year for
Fire Station No. 1 and Fire Station No. 2 have been relocated to be included as a part
of the rebuilding of the roadway on Franklin Road at Fire Station No. 1, which has a
temporary signal in place now, and the rebuild of Ten Mile Road for Fire Station No. 2.
That particular signal project is -- needs to be an item of discussion. I think it's been
requested to be placed on an agenda -- a future agenda for the City Council, Ada
County Highway District joint meeting to discuss.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: Gary, your memo was very informative. What would be very helpful is to
have it in a chart form. I think you did that last year and it really helps lay it out and
show what the changes were, if the priority is noted what it was that last year and then
what it is this year lined out or in red or however you choose to do it.
Smith: Right.
De Weerd: Because the text is great, because it does show how your conversation
followed the reprioritization, but a chart would be really helpful, so we could take some
action on it. I don't know if anyone else needs a chart, but it would certainly be helpful
for me. Kind of a visual thing, you know.
Smith: I can certainly do that, Council Member de Weerd.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I think that's a very good idea, Gary, to come out in a chart form like you had for
us in the past and, I'm like Councilwoman de Weerd, I like your priorities real well, but
having it numerical numbered and everything and what we want to present, I would like
it as in a chart also.
Smith: Okay.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
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September 17, 2002
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Nary: Since we get asked about it a lot here, I noticed, of course, that the Ten Mile
interchange is part of this priority list. Is it part of a different priority list, so that people
know that it's not something we aren't concerned with, it's just not part of this particular
list? In the discussion it says -- moving up to number seven to number five, rebuild Ten
Mile Road from Franklin to Ustick and it's partly in relation to the Ten Mile interchange,
but that's not a project that's on this list of a priority. Maybe you could explain why that
is.
Smith: Certainly. The Ten Mile interchange -- it would appear as a footnote to our
priority list, such as it did last year in the chart form, and when I present that to you it will
show up as a footnote. The reason that we had it as a footnote last year -- and it will
appear again that way this year, is because of the involvement of the private enterprise
and that would be the Eastborn Land Development Company and their commitment to
fund, reportedly, a sizeable portion of that interchange, within -- I believe they reported
to us within two to three years that that would be completed. That seems to be a pretty
quick time schedule for most people that deal with transportation projects, but,
nevertheless, we haven't prioritized it in our projects, because of the involvement of the
private enterprise in the -- well, and the study that was authorized -- or funding for half
of the study cost that was authorized by Council and the other half being paid by the
Eastborn Developers. So we have kept -- because of the other issues that we have or
the other transportation projects that we have and the involvement of the private
enterprise in that project, that's why we placed it as a footnote item, rather than a
prioritized project that would need to garner funding from ITD and --
Nary: Mr. Mayor, just one more follow up of Gary. Would there be a concern that at
some point the development company that participated at the moment has indicated
that they would have some significant involvement in paying for that, but I don't think I
have ever heard them say a hundred percent involvement in paying for that.
Smith: No. That's correct.
Nary: So is not having it as at least on the priority list, even if it's number ten, but having
it on the priority list, is there going to be an issue later regarding funding for the portion
that isn't going to be paid by the development company in getting funding for that?
Smith: There could be, Councilman Nary. Yes. And we can certainly place it in the
prioritization list where ever you would like to see it placed, but I have been told by
Compass that probably the only -- the first three projects are going to be prioritized for
funding.
Nary: It's also my experience that things tend to move up and down this food chain
depending on money and who wants to fund it.
Smith: Yes.
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September 17, 2002
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Nary: So -- but if it's not on the chart, then it may -- it may get left off someone else's
radar and I guess I'm concerned about that and even if it is the 10th priority on the list,
because of the likelihood that other people may step up to the plate, I just -- I guess
think it probably maybe needs more emphasis than just a footnote, just so if there is an
issue about funding, it's something that doesn't get left behind when we are looking at
some of the other issues.
Smith: Okay. That's a good point. Thank you.
Corrie: And I agree with Mr. Nary. Right now its kind of floating there, but I think it
should be on that list.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I would agree with that, too, but, additionally, adding something -- an
explanation of what the city is doing to help -- to help -- oh, gosh, maybe my lack of
words are dilated like my eyes, but -- the fact that I can't see means I can't talk. We just
need somewhere to note -- because I do know that Compass board members do read
all of these lists and so do the agencies and I do believe that it is necessary to reflect
the efforts being taken by the city in helping this become a higher priority, such as the
partnership with ITD and the interchange study, the partner -- or the sewer treatment or
the sewer line extension project and just specifically name those actions that are being
taken by the city in partnership with ACHD, ITD, and the private business entities, those
should specifically be noted.
Smith: Thank you. I'll do that, Council Member de Weerd. Thank you.
Corrie: Okay. Thank you, Gary.
Smith: Mr. Mayor, then I will bring this back to you in the Council's next meeting.
Corrie: Right. We'll put it on the agenda.
Smith: All right. Thank you very much.
Corrie: Steve.
Siddoway: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I was just wanting to point out, as a related footnote,
that the Earth Tech Company is prepared to do a pre-Council presentation next week
on September 24th specifically on the progress of that Ten Mile interchange study. So
the Council will be receiving more feedback on that at that time.
Item 5: (Items Moved from Consent Agenda)
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September 17, 2002
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Item 6: Ordinance No. : Adopting a New Meridian
City Area of Impact Boundary Map:
Corrie: Thank you, Steve. Okay. Item No. 6 is an ordinance adopting a new Meridian
city area of impact boundary map. I believe, Mr. Berg, if you could read that ordinance
at this time by title only. And what would the ordinance number be? 02 dash --
Berg: 975.
Corrie: -- 975. Okay. If you would read Ordinance No. 975 by title only at this time.
Berg: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council. Ordinance No. 02-975. An
Ordinance of the City of Meridian amending Title 10, Chapter 7, Meridian City Code,
adopting a new Meridian City Area of Impact Boundary Map and providing an effective
date.
Corrie: Okay. Is there anyone from the audience that would like to have Ordinance No.
02-975, adopting the new Meridian Area of Impact Map read in its entirety? All right.
Hearing none, I will entertain a motion on Ordinance No. 02-975.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Before we do that, I guess I had a question. I had a conversation today with Brad
Hawkins-Clark about this. This has been probably the most complicated changing of
our boundary map that hopefully we will ever deal with and there has been a lot of
confusion that's come back and forth on this and from what I understood today -- is
Brad still here? Oh. The county commissioners are coming next week, coming to our
pre-Council meeting, so that we could have our meeting that's required to amend our
area of impact in regards to this property, as well as the other properties that have been
requested, and I was wondering on a timing issue -- and maybe Mr. Nichols can answer
-- I know the city of Boise has this on their agenda tonight to annex this property. They
are now going to delay that for about three weeks, because they can't annex property
that is not in their area of impact currently. Timing wise, if we are going to have this
meeting with the commissioners next week, should we delay this a week, so that we at
least don't have anymore little glitches in this process?
Nichols: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Nary, Members of the Council, it's one of those things
that the statute doesn't say which is the chicken and which is the egg or which comes
first. There is some indication that at a prior joint city and Council meeting, I think this
area in particular may have been discussed, but so -- it's one of those occasions where
everybody appears to agree that it needs to change and so the renegotiation that's
contemplated in the statute is really a formality and certainly the applicant for the
change relied upon prior Council action in going forward to Boise city and applying and
processing their application. And I see Mr. Yorgason is in the audience and he can
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September 17, 2002
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address the Council, but I'm not sure that it's critical that we -- because by the time the
ordinance is published and, therefore, becomes effective, it could be that you have
already had your meeting with the county. I don't have a clear indication from the
statute and there is no case law, there isn't anything you can look up that tells you
which. If Boise city is going to delay, maybe it's not that critical, but I'd ask that you at
least ask Mr. Yorgason for his --
Nary: And the information that I guess I received today was that -- and, again, I think
you're absolutely right, there is not a lot of clarity in the statute to make it clear what the
step-by-step procedure from what information I had. The City of Boise did have a
meeting with the county commission to get their approval. They did pass a resolution
approving accepting this property into the area of impact. They were going to pass an
annexation ordinance tonight to annex it, but I think they are going to delay it a couple
of weeks to make sure there wasn't an issue about service -- about providing sewer
service and they have agreed to allow that service to happen, even though it's currently
not in the City of Boise. So that way that does not delay it. And, like I said, I guess my
only concern was from the information that I have received prior to today was that
Meridian hadn't covered that one little technical piece and I guess the only issue would
be of a concern -- and, again, I don't think there is anything to tell us one way or the
other, would only be whether or not if we don't do this properly that it's void -- it is
voidable and we can fix it and we have done all these things, like we have said, it's kind
of an chicken and egg thing, then it's fine. I just don't want it void and that makes it
more of a problem later and have to fix. It probably isn't going to be contested, no one
has come and objected to it to anybody, here or Boise, so it may not be an issue, but
that was the only concern I wanted to bring up before we passed this ordinance, is that
it would appear that once we pass this ordinance we are done. Am I correct? We don't
have anything else we have to do to do this, but if we haven't had that technical meeting
with the commissioners and since they are here anyway next week, should we at least
set this over one week, one less issue about this, and then it's done and, you're right,
maybe hearing from Mr. Yorgason that it's not going to be a problem is a better way to
do that.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would think, not being an attorney, but I would think that we would have to pass -
seeings how it's in our impact area, we would have to pass this resolution -- or
ordinance before Boise would be able to enact on their annexation and zoning. Legally
it is in their impact area. I have no problem with going ahead and passing it. I mean we
had agreed already with a previous Council to do this, but we didn't know how -- what
steps we were supposed to take, but I would think before Boise could pass an
annexation and zoning ordinance for zoning this property, we have to get rid of it.
Nary: And that was the reason they were delaying it, was because this hadn't been
approved yet and so what I was told earlier today by the planning director was they will
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September 17, 2002
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move their annexation ordinance to the 8th, I think, of October, so that there is
adequate time to make sure it was -- everything else was done and that can done,
because they have been proceeding -- they have been proceeding prior to about two
months ago thinking that we had already done all of this, so --
De Weerd: We all thought that.
Bird: We all thought that.
Nary: So that's why they have been moving it along. And, like I said, it was just one
piece of that -- I just wanted to make sure it was covered. If it's not a real significant
problem, let's just go ahead, but --
Corrie: No pun intended, but our eyesight is a lot better now knowing what to do with
these things switching around, that we are doing something. Okay. Mr. Yorgason, do
you have anything that -- just give us your name and address.
Yorgason: My name is Dave Yorgason, Capital Development. The address is 6200
North Meeker in Boise and, as we all know, we have been -- every time we take a step
and we thought we took the right step, we are all walking in new chartered waters, that's
probably what we are trying to figure out here. Unless there is someone in the audience
here or someone before us, I'm not an attorney, I'm certainly not going to stand here
and tell you I know all the law, because I surely don't. But if there isn't case law before
us, I know Boise city is waiting for this decision and we'd just respectfully request that it
take place and be approved tonight, unless there is some obvious reason not to, which
we are not aware of.
Corrie: Okay. Any questions, Council? Thank you. Okay. Any other discussion?
Okay. Still waiting for a motion if you so desire, whichever way you want to go.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I'll move that we approve Ordinance No. 02-975, adopting a new Meridian City
Area of Impact Boundary Map, pursuant to what's been presented and also waive the
reading pursuant to Idaho Code 50-902.
McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded. Any further discussion. Hearing none,
roll-call vote, Mr. Berg.
Roll-call vote: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; DeWeerd, aye; Bird, aye.
Corrie: Okay. All ayes. Ordinance No. 02-975 is adopted.
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September 17, 2002
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MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Smith: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Yes.
Smith: May I make a comment? Concerning our eastern boundary on our impact area,
I have met -- Brad Watson and I have met with Boise City, John Tennison and one of
his engineering staff John Johnson, and we have amongst us determined a reasonable,
logical sewer service boundary along our eastern border that would coincide with sewer
service provided by Boise. I don't know what time -- what the timing would be like that
you would like to have this presented to you, but I can -- I have a little map with me -- or
a small scale map with me tonight, not necessarily to show you, unless you're
interested, but I can certainly present that to you after this meeting sometime during the
week, so that you can review it prior to your meeting next Tuesday. I don't know what
the process is exactly with the meeting that you have scheduled with the county, but
staffs between Meridian and Boise have made a decision as far as sewer service area.
Corrie: Is it close to what we were thinking, Gary? I mean as far as the east boundary
is concerned?
Smith: Well, I guess there is some -- there is some decisions that Council -- you and
Council will have to make, Mr. Mayor, but I think we were enlightened by what Boise city
has in the ground as far as sewer is concerned and how much ground they can sewer.
There was some areas that they have within their impact boundary that they can't sewer
and it's just unfeasible for them to sewer it, but yet it's within their boundary, a straight
line -- north-south boundary -- or I should say the north-south line on the east boundary.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I'd sure like Gary to get us a map and get it to us sometime this week, Gary, if we
could get it at least in our packet by Friday, so that we would have something go over
the weekend.
Smith: You bet. I will have it -- I will have it no later -- well, I'll have it to city clerk's office
tomorrow afternoon.
Corrie: It will give us more validity, because of the way they have -- since the area of
impact back in '93.
Smith: Yes, sir.
Corrie: Okay.
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September 17, 2002
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Smith: Thank you.
Item 7: Public Hearing: Fee Increase for Meridian Parks and Recreation
Department for Adult Fall Sports programs:
Corrie: Thank you, Gary. Item No. 7 is a Public Hearing, it's a Fee Increase for
Meridian Parks and Recreation Department for Adult Fall Sports programs. At this time
I will open the Public Hearing on that and we will have staff comments first, then we will
have any audience participation after that, limited to three minutes, and then go from
there. Staff.
Arreola: Mayor Corrie and City Council, tonight I come before you to request increase
in our adult fall sport fees and men's basketball from 400 to 500 per team and co-ed
volleyball from 190 to 260 per team and women's basketball is a new sport that we are
trying out this fall, 495. I did give you a couple handouts on the budgets that I have
done for each these and the main reason for the increase in fees is just an attempt to
cover our costs and remain competitive with other parks and recreation departments in
the Treasure Valley. We have had an increase in fees in the basketball and volleyball
officials. I try to keep those pretty low. I don't go with local associations that the high
schools sometimes tend to go with that charge a little bit more money. We have
basketball officials going from 15.50 per game to 18 dollars per game, volleyball
officials from 8.50 per match to approximately ten dollars per match. Awards and
T-shirts have increased and we have implemented an administrative fee to try and
cover the costs of our staffing as well doing the registrations and the process that we do
in our office to make sure that these activities are implemented to the citizens. I have
made some adjustments to try to keep the fees from not raising more. For example, if
you're interested in this at all, is score keepers and timers at basketball games usually
tend to have two, because it's kind of a very overwhelming job for just one person to be
keeping score and be keeping time at the same time. In an effort to try to keep this cost
down, I have done some changes with running different times of the -- rather than a four
minute stop clock quarter, eight minute stop clock type of game, I would be
implementing a 20 minute nonstop clock and stopping clock in the last two minutes in
order to keep that job a little simpler for the score keeper and timer to do it. In an ideal
situation it would be nice to have two, but I'm trying to keep the cost down. For this first
year I would keep it at one. I don't know steps you want to go through. We can review
the budgets that I have set before you. They are pretty self-explanatory as far as the
volleyball, co-ed volleyball, men’s basketball and women's basketball. There have been
some questions on why the women's basketball is 495 and why the men's is 500. In
hindsight I should have just made those both 500. It would have made things a little
simpler. But as I did the league play schedules, I am trying out a new women's
basketball league and I based the fees here on an eight team league. I based the
men's fees on a ten team league. There is a little bit of cost difference and I kept it to
the penny. 495 was -- 495 and some change was the amount of eight teams divided
into the total expenses and the men’s team was 500. So that -- you know, if that helps
you in the explanation there. On hindsight I would have kept those both at 500 or 495
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September 17, 2002
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at your request. I do have a comparison sheet here of -- I have done some -- I did
some calling around and talked to Boise Parks and Recreation, their total fee for their
adult basketball programs, which is similar to ours, a ten team -- ten league games and
tournament is 661 dollars. They implement a -- I believe it's a 25 dollar nonresident fee
and they said that a majority of their players are nonresidence, so on these estimates of
fees here I based it on five players being nonresident and they also implemented a
USSA fee along with that. And their adult volleyball is roughly $272.50. Nampa Parks
and Recreation, they run an eight game double elimination tournament, charge a 15
dollar nonresident player fee, a ten dollar resident player fee, referee 505 dollars. Their
co-ed is an eight game with two tournaments, their co-ed volleyball, and that is roughly
250 dollars for a league. And a lot of these -- Boise and Nampa both charge resident or
non -- and/or nonresident fees and we don't do that here in the City of Meridian at this
time. I do have further information. I have sheets here comparison to last year's budgets
and this year's budget if you're interested in that. I didn't want to overwhelm you with
too much paperwork. They said you liked handouts, but I didn't know how many that
you wanted, so at this time I would entertain any questions that you might have.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Lisa, what is the reason that -- to not have a resident versus a nonresident fee?
Arreola: The reason not to?
Nary: Correct.
Arreola: Basically -- I have only been here for two months and I'm just kind of going
status quo with what they have been doing here at the Parks and Recreation
Department, so I don't know that I can answer that question. I don't know what their
reasoning was for having -- not having a resident-nonresident fee here for the City of
Meridian Parks and Recreation and I really haven't asked Boise why they have one and
why they don't have one.
Nary: Do we have statistics showing how many participants previously -- I know the
women's is new, but the other ones aren't. How many residents versus nonresidents
are participating?
Arreola: We don't. I'm sure I could probably investigate and get that information, but as
far as having it readily available I don't.
Nary: And I guess we can certainly have this discussion again later about it, because I
guess my only concern is that we want to encourage nonresident -- we want to
encourage everybody to participate in the activities that we provide, but we don't want to
have an overwhelming mix of nonresidents that really -- the program is supplemented --
is being provided by taxpayer dollars of people that live here and so if it overwhelms the
Meridian City Council Meeting
September 17, 2002
Page 14 of 65
program and it's all nonresident participating that then our residents can't participate in it
very easily, that's the reason for the difference in the other communities, is to make
sure that it encourages folks that live in that community to be able to participate.
Arreola: You know, I do know that most of the phone calls that I have been fielding this
year so far on the list that I have of people waiting for me to send out the information
tomorrow on, you know, the basketball and volleyball fees have been mainly Meridian
residents.
Bird: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I think I can probably answer that. The reason we have not had a fee, because
we just started three years ago and I think at that point the Parks and Recreation
Commission, along with Tom, decided that we weren't being overflowed. Boise and
Nampa never had nonresident fees for years until it got so busy that they had to bring it
in. So -- and I'm sure once we get filled up and stuff we will have to. Having watched
most of the city rec basketball games the last couple of years I would say we have got
75 percent of voting residents in the city of Meridian playing.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: And I think Mr. Bird is probably absolutely right. It might just be statistics we
might need to start capturing, so that when it -- if there is -- it becomes a disparity, then
maybe a discussion we would want to have in the future to at least provide that access
for our residents. It's not a problem now, that's fine, but if we don't ever capture the
information, then we won't have a way to have a conversation.
Arreola: Sure. And one thing I did want to add and that I was encouraged by Brent
Cole’s' State of the City address and that he did mention that, you know, he was really
encouraging residents and people to seek activities in their own parks departments and
parks and recreations, you know, rather than -- you know, Boise can't accommodate
everybody anymore, so I think that's becoming a reality and -- for everyone and I'm sure
that would be --
Corrie: Okay. Any other questions?
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
Corrie: Anyone from the public that would like to issue testimony? Okay. Hearing
none, anything else we need of Council on the Public Hearing?
Bird: I have none.
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September 17, 2002
Page 15 of 65
Corrie: Okay. I'll entertain a motion to close the Public Hearing.
Bird: So moved.
De Weerd: Second.
Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded to close the Public Hearing on Item No.
7. All those in favor say aye. Okay. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: Discussion? Hearing no discussion, I will entertain a motion, then, on the
increase on the Parks and Rec Department for the Adult Fall Sports programs. Mr.
Bird.
Bird: We cannot -- we cannot pass on the ordinance, because it is not on the agenda.
Corrie: We don't have an ordinance, but we can do it --
Bird: A resolution.
Corrie: A resolution.
Bird: But we need it on the agenda for a resolution.
Corrie: We can have the resolution the next meeting.
Bird: Oh. Okay.
Nary: Or we can actually move to approve it and ratify it with a resolution next week.
Bird: Okay. Well, I'll make a motion, then, that we bring forward a resolution next week
ratifying the Parks proposed 2002-2003 fees for co-ed volleyball, men's basketball and
women's basketball.
Nary: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded. Is there any further discussion?
Okay. All those in favor of the motion say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 8: Public Hearing: Amendment to 2001 / 2002 Fiscal Year Budget:
Meridian City Council Meeting
September 17, 2002
Page 16 of 65
Corrie: Item No. 8 is a Public Hearing. This is an amendment to the 2001/2002 fiscal
year budget. I will open the Public Hearing at this time. Same rules. Start with staff.
Kilchenmann: Mayor and Members of the Council, the proposed amendments we have
discussed previously is a net decrease to the enterprise plan of $32,400 for the transfer
of the land from Settler's Park for the water tank and net increase to the general fund of
$8,984 by the time we net some increase in expenses against the increases in
revenues. Would you like me to go through each item again?
Corrie: I don't think so, unless Council wishes to.
Bird: I have no reason to.
Corrie: No? This is a Public Hearing. Anybody in the audience that would like to issue
testimony on the amendment under the fiscal year budget? Okay. Hearing none, I will
entertain a motion to close the Public Hearing.
Bird: So moved.
Nary: Second.
Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded to close the Public Hearing. All those in
favor say aye. All ayes motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: Discussion? Okay? No discussion, I'll entertain a motion on the agenda -- or,
excuse me, on the -- yes, the amendment to the budget.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Actually, in our packet there is an ordinance, which I think is required; isn't that
right, Mr. Nichols?
Corrie: I can't find it here.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, there is an amendment ordinance.
Corrie: Okay. There is an ordinance.
Nary: I'm going to assume it's Ordinance 976. Mr. Mayor, I move that we approve
Ordinance No. 02-976, an ordinance amending the appropriation order for the fiscal
year beginning October 1st, 2001, and ending September 30th, 2001, appropriating
additional monies -- 2002. I'm sorry. Appropriating additional monies that are to be
Meridian City Council Meeting
September 17, 2002
Page 17 of 65
received by the City of Meridian, Idaho, in the sum of 250,088 dollars and providing an
effective date and waive the reading of the rules pursuant to Idaho Code 50-902.
McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded on the Ordinance No. 02-976. Any further
discussion? Hearing none, roll-call vote, Mr. Berg.
Roll-call vote: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; DeWeerd, aye; Bird, aye.
Corrie: Thank you. Okay. Ordinance approved.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 9: FP 02-018
Request for Final Plat approval of 24 building lots and 2 other
Vienna Woods No. 7
lots on 6.65 acres in an R-4 zone for by Skyline
Development – east side of Locust Grove between Chinden and McMillan
Roads:
Corrie: Item No. 9 is a request for final plat approval of 24 building lots and two other
lots on 6.65 acres in an R-4 zone for Vienna Woods No. 7 by Skyline Development,
east side of Locust Grove between Chinden & McMillan Roads. Staff comments first on
the request.
Siddoway: Thank you, Mr. Mayor and Members of the Council. Vienna Woods No. 7 is
the final phase of Vienna Woods. It is located on its easterly boundary. You can see a
vicinity map on the projection screen. The location of Vienna Woods is a linear strip
right down here, which I will show here. On this plat north is to the right and it's a linear
piece. You should have a staff report dated September 6th and received on September
10th. Staff recommends approval of this final plat with those staff comments. I'll stand
for any questions.
Corrie: Any questions of staff?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Is the applicant here this evening? I do know we got a letter from Mr. Tucker M.
Johnson, requesting that the applicant is to meet all terms of the approved preliminary
plat and applicable to the city ordinances, he wanted that changed from the conditions.
Siddoway: This is technically in the county and they have to go through city approval
per the agreement on this. I don't have a problem with that wording change.
Corrie: Okay. Okay. Any other discussion? Okay. I'll entertain a motion on the final
plat request.
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September 17, 2002
Page 18 of 65
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I move we approve the request for final plat of 24 building lots and two other
lots on 6.65 acres in an R-4 zone for Vienna Woods No. 7 with the suggested change
and to ask the attorney to draw up Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and
Decision of Order, to include all staff comments, with the exception of the change as
stated September 6.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded. Is there any further discussion?
Hearing none, roll-call vote, Mr. Berg.
Roll-call vote: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; DeWeerd, aye; Bird, aye.
Corrie: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 10: FP 02-019
Request for Final Plat approval of 19 building lots and 2 other
Cherrywood Village (fka
lots on 3.84 acres in an R-8 zone for
Amberstone Subdivision)
by James L. Jewett – south of West Cherry
Lane and south of North Summertree Way:
Corrie: Item No. 10 is a request for final plat approval of 19 building lots and two other
lots on 3.84 acres in an R-8 zone for Cherrywood Village, also known as Amberstone
Subdivision by James L. Jewett, south of Cherry Lane and south of North Summertree
Way. Staff comments first.
Siddoway: Thank you, Mayor, Members of the Council. The vicinity map is up on the
screen. It's located on Cherry Lane west -- or, sorry, east of Black Cat. It did come
through previously as Amberstone. That name has been changed to Cherrywood
Village Subdivision in order to comply with Ada County’s naming requirements. Staff
has made the findings that the final plat is in conformance with the approved preliminary
plat. There are several changes noted that will be required to be made to the notes and
such on the plat, but they are all detailed in the staff report dated September 6th and so
we would recommend approval of this final plat with the staff report and I'll stand for any
questions.
Corrie: Any questions of staff?
Bird: I have none.
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September 17, 2002
Page 19 of 65
Corrie: Okay. Is the applicant here this evening and have any comments? Mr. Jewett
shook his head no, no comments. Okay. Council, any other discussion? Okay.
Hearing none, I'll entertain a motion on the request final plat approval.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I move we approve the request for final plat of 19 building lots and two other
lots on 3.84 acres in an R-8 zone for Cherrywood Village by James Jewett and to
include all staff comments, dated September 6, and ask the attorney to draw up
Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision of Order.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded to approve the final plat on
request of 02-019. Further discussion? Hearing none, roll-call vote, Mr. Berg.
Roll-call vote: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; DeWeerd, aye; Bird, aye.
Corrie: Okay. All ayes. Motion approved.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: At this time the Council president will take over. I have got to leave for a
telecast on the Boys and Girl's Club tonight and so she will do an admirable job, I'm
sure. So with that, Madam President, the Council is yours.
Item 11: Public Hearing: AZ 02-011
Request for Annexation and Zoning of 24.89
Fairview Lakes
acres from R-T to C-G and R-40 zones for proposed by
Hopkins Financial Services, Inc. – 824 East Fairview Avenue:
Item 12: Public Hearing: CUP 02-014
Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a
Planned Unit Development for a commercial building site in a proposed C-
G zone and a 192 unit residential apartment complex in a proposed R-40
Fairview Lakes
zone for the proposed by Hopkins Financial Services, Inc.
– 824 East Fairview Avenue:
De Weerd: Thank you. Well, we will take a break at 9:00 o'clock, so we can all call into
the telethon make our pledges. You can talk personally to the Mayor, make sure that is
where he's going, so -- okay. I will go ahead and open the Public Hearing AZ 02-011,
request for annexation and zoning of 24.89 acres from R-T to C-G and R-40 zones for
proposed Fairview Lakes. We will start with the staff comments and ask the applicant to
come forward and make his presentation and then take public comment.
Nichols: Madam President?
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September 17, 2002
Page 20 of 65
De Weerd: Mr. Nichols.
NIchols: Would you also like to open the hearing on Item No. 12?
De Weerd: Yes. If that would be the preference of Council.
Bird: Yes.
De Weerd: Okay. So we will also open Item No. 12, request for Conditional Use Permit
also on Fairview Lakes. Steve.
Siddoway: Yes. Thank you, Mrs. President. The -- I'll combine my comments on the
annexation and the Conditional Use Permit. Both are under consideration tonight for
Fairview Lakes. The location of it is the large in-fill parcel on the north side of Fairview
between Meridian Road and Locust Grove. I do have several site photos, which I will
go through quickly. Looking into the site you can see it's basically undeveloped. There
are some -- two waterways that course through the site, Settler's Canal and the Jackson
Drain. Surrounding properties include Fiesta Guadalajara to the west, various
businesses along -- across the street to the south and southeast. There are some
existing trees on the property that need to be retained or mitigated for. Dirty Harry's Car
Wash is just east of the site. What we have is a request for a detailed Conditional Use
Permit on the 192-unit apartment complex at the northern portion of this site. The
remainder of the property is just requested as a conceptual approval, for which they
would have to come back at a later date for more detailed CUP’s. So we are basically
giving detailed approval to the apartment complex tonight and considering the balance
of it as a concept. There are several elevations, which are in your packets. I will just go
through them. You can see the style and character of the buildings, three story
apartments. Clubhouse. Rear elevation. I'm going to go back to the site plan. You
have the recommendation from the Planning and Zoning Commission. I just need to
highlight a few things based on their changes. One is that they have asked the
applicant to provide a 30-foot landscape buffer along the east side of the apartment
complex. That would be in this location here. Currently they are showing a 20-foot
landscape buffer, with a ten-foot pathway running through it. It's difficult to see at this
scale, but they have requested that that width be increased to 30 feet, so basically 20
feet of landscaping, in addition to the ten-foot pathway. One -- perhaps the larger issue
is that the Planning Zoning Commission have recommended that traffic bollards be
placed at the south end of Teare, which is this street right here as you're going into the
existing subdivision, where the -- the staff report and the original proposal and ACHD's
conditions recommend this being a through street. They are recommending that it be
bollarded off and that it be only accessible by pedestrians. And the third item that arose
in their motion was buffering along the south side of the Smith property. Now the Smith
property, if I understand correctly, is this southern most lot in the existing residential
subdivision. They have provided a ten foot wide buffer strip along the south of it. I
believe the property owner would like that to be increased. The motion did not specify
how much buffering was required. And the fourth item in the Commission's motion is
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September 17, 2002
Page 21 of 65
that the applicant needs to apply for a miscellaneous application to allow the
north-south street coming off of Fairview into the project to be approved as a private
street by Council until such time as the area is platted and upon platting would become
public right of way, but they need to get access to the property, at least by a private
street, before this property can be developed. The application was submitted. It is
scheduled for hearing on October 1st. I would make a recommendation from my
perspective that tonight a motion should be to continue this project to that meeting, so
that we are not approving the project prior to approving the access, which would be
necessary to develop it. That said, still have the Public Hearing, address all the issues,
and get that taken care of. I believe those are the major issues from my understanding
in coming out of the Planning and Zoning Commission and I would stand for any
questions.
De Weerd: Council, do you have any questions for staff?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Well, I will go ahead and open the Public Hearing. Is the applicant
here?
Tamura: Madam Chair, Members of the Council, my name is Doug Tamura, I represent
Hopkins Financial Services on this project.
De Weerd: Sir, I need to swear you in. Hold up your right hand. Do you swear to tell
the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Tamura: I do.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Tamura: Doug Tamura, 499 Main Street and represent Hopkins Financial Services on
this project. One, we'd like to thank the staff for all the work they have done on this
project. I think we have come up with good comprises to the neighborhood to get the
project approved. A couple of things on clarification to try and explain what we are
doing. One of the reasons that we applied for the miscellaneous application on the
private road is that what we were trying to do is build the -- or start construction on the
apartment complex, so we can do that in conjunction with the platting of the commercial
area. So what the -- the private road is just a temporary road that we can gain access
to the apartment complex. Let us start construction on that and then we will do the plat
and then we won't take occupancy of the apartment complex until the road right of ways
are platted, completed, or finalized. So that's why we went through the hoops to do it
that way. Clarification on the -- on item 1.1, the applicant shall be required to provide a
30 foot landscape buffer. The requirement was kind of a combination between the
Parks Department and the city on the buffer. It's required to have a 20 foot setback and
since we had -- we had agreed that we would run a pedestrian pathway, which crosses
Fairview Avenue, runs up to our project, winds behind the C-N zone, comes up the east
Meridian City Council Meeting
September 17, 2002
Page 22 of 65
property line and then crosses across the Jackson Drain and potentially will continue
along the north banks of the Jackson drain. The reason for the 30 foot setback was to
accommodate land -- additional landscaping, along with the ten foot pedestrian
pathway. What we have done is one of the requirements for the county for us to do a
one-time split is we had to have a minimum of 250 feet of frontage on a public street
and so we worked out a deal with the Highway District to go ahead, deed them a
hammerhead at the end of Clarine. This would be an emergency vehicle access only
and it will be bollarded off from the neighborhood, but part of that we have already
deeded this to the Highway District, which wouldn't meet that 30 foot setback, so what
we'd like to do is have a clarification that the 30 foot setback just on the south edge of
that existing hammerhead. The reason for the additional width was to accommodate
the pedestrian path which makes a turn and heads west along that Jackson Drain. The
other thing was the Highway District -- one of the things that was signature in our project
is we have got an approval to put a signal on Fairview. It will be one of the few
signalized intersections and one of the reasons or thoughts behind the Highway District
on the section between here and Fairview was as much ability for the neighborhood to
access Fairview. I think one of the problems is that it creates more traffic and
potentially there will be additional traffic that will try to access Fairview through our
project here and originally when we developed our project we designed it so it didn't
have access to the neighborhood, because we knew that would probably be our biggest
drawback was additional traffic, but I guess, you know, our personal view and I guess in
the view of the Highway District, that it tends to enhance circulation on Fairview and
maybe not today, but in the future if Fairview becomes busier. So I think that -- so I think
the thought was that, you know, if you bollard it off now and as the need comes, then
put all the road system through in place, that they be there when the need arises. You
know, how that situation is worked out with the Highway District on that I'm not sure.
The last clarification I'd like to make -- I notice that part of the requirements for
recommendations of conditions as developed on the Highway District approvals on
locations of curb cuts and I think that what we are going to do, since we have got a --
just get conceptual approval on our commercial phase, that the location of those curb
cuts may change as we solidify our deals with our different tenants and stuff and so that
might be something that will come back to the Council and we will go ahead and have
revised. But other than that, we support the staff's conditions of approval.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, do you have any questions?
Bird: I have none.
Tamura: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. This is a Public Hearing. Is there any member of the public
who would like to comment in favor of this application? Okay. Is there a member who
would like to comment in opposition of this application? Okay. Well, is there any
testimony at all in either direction? Okay. Council, do you have any questions of staff
or the applicant?
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September 17, 2002
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Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Mr. Tamura, could you explain a little bit on the open spaces and the pools and
all that? Could you explain a little bit what open spacing you will be providing to this
particular project?
Tamura: I'll kind of show you the rendering. One of the -- I'm an architect and our
specialty is housing and so one of the things that we are sensitive to is neighborhoods,
because it seems like that's our big -- two biggest issues is the impact on privacy and
the other one is traffic. So the design of this project is all internal, so typically all the
units -- all the bedrooms face the parking and so all the living spaces, living rooms and
decks, dining rooms, all face interior courtyards. So what we tried to do is go ahead
and create it so that these living spaces open onto amenities. The other thing that this
site had that a lot of sites don't is it had two waterways. So what our plan is is to take
Settler's that runs diagonally across the site this direction. We are planning on piping it
over and up into the different water amenities along Fairview and taking it down the
main driveway and creating a large pond here and have it exit back out the other
direction. The Jackson Drain runs to this neighborhood here and pops out right at this
point. So we are going to go ahead and pipe it to this point, you know, open it back up,
create a waterway amenity through the center of our project, and then, again, pipe it
back and extend to where it exits to the adjacent property. So the amenities that we
have got is one is the -- we have got this proposed pedestrian connection to our whole
project that will be a community public right of way. We have got the Jackson Drain
through the middle of there. And then all of the units of the main project will be opened
up into some kind of common open space. We will also have a clubhouse and a
swimming pool facility. This will have a small exercise or management -- you know,
kind of clubhouse area here. And even these are designed to look out back onto
Fairview. But all of them will have kind of their own private open space, either decks or
patios off the units.
Nary: Is there any play equipment or any of that type of space or is it all just open
space and then that pool and clubhouse facility?
Tamura: We may opt to do some kind of tot lot in the future, but as you can see from
the mix, the one thing that we think that Meridian lacks is one bedroom, you know,
housing, more affordable housing. So 55 percent of our project is going to be one
bedroom. You know, you can see the percentage. Eleven of the buildings are -- 130
units are one bed, one bath. Three of the buildings are two bedroom, one bath. And
two of the buildings are two bedroom, two bath. Even the two bedroom, two baths are
designed as potentially two singles. So we think that we are going to have a fairly
limited number of children. You know, as the need arises we can add that, but at this
point in time we are just proposing a clubhouse and swimming pool. From our
experience of doing projects in Boise, could be one of the county's projects, that we
have a fairly limited number of children, but from us analyzing the market, what exists in
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September 17, 2002
Page 24 of 65
Meridian, there are not very many one bedroom apartment complexes here and it
seems like typically they have been two and three bedroom units. So what we are
hoping to do is provide housing for all the people that are working at the retail on Eagle
Road, you know, the people that are working and, you know -- you know, in all that
construction going around Meridian is what we are hoping for.
Nary: I have one other question. On Fairview along there -- I mean you have the
required buffer. Is that berming or is that just trees or is that a little bit of both?
Tamura: What --
Nary: The reason I'm asking is it appears as you're driving down Fairview you see a
whole lot of parking lots the way that's drawn.
Tamura: What we are visualizing is that -- one is we are proposing a meandering
sidewalk. You know, one of the conditions of the Highway District is for us to put in a
five foot sidewalk along Fairview and so what we'd like to do is do a meandering path,
along with ponds and trees and so I think we will do a combination of -- Randy Hopkins'
brother is Kendall Hopkins with Hopkins Evergreens and they were the main landscape
contractor on Lexington Hills. And so our vision is that we will have more of a park-like,
you know, buffer. That's why one of the conditions that we agreed upon was to
increase the main artery coming up here to a 20-foot wide landscape setback to
increase kind of that whole landscape feeling. The other thing is right now the only
thing that we are getting approval for is just the 35 width of landscape buffer that we are
required to put in with our original project. The rest of this project, you know, the
buildings, the landscape, parking, we have got to come back in for a detailed conditional
use and at that time kind of address what's going to happen. Right now the only thing
that we really have kind of inked is, you know, the person that's going to take this corner
and we are working with some tenants on what's going to happen on the main building.
But our goal is to do something real nice. That's why, you know, we want to -- we
obligated ourselves to make sure that we had some nice water amenities on the project.
Nary: Thank you.
De Weerd: Well, one of the questions raised was what the buffer was going to be to the
south side of Mr. Smith's property.
Tamura: What was agreed upon at Planning and Zoning is that, again, this would be
part of the detailed conditional use of when we come in with the commercial
development and so at that time we agreed that we'd come in with a detailed landscape
of what we are going to do with Mr. Smith's ten feet. So whether he wants to do fences
or combinations of fences and landscapes or whatever, we figured that we will sit down
with him. I believe Randy sat down with Mr. Smith today, actually, and visited with him
about what his thoughts were. The other thing is Hopkins Financial potentially is going
to be the main tenant for their office building located here, but we are hoping that within
the next 60, 90 days we will be coming back to the Council as far as our detailed
Meridian City Council Meeting
September 17, 2002
Page 25 of 65
concept on what's going to happen on the commercial property, which will include Mr.
Smith's buffer.
De Weerd: Now on your pathway, have you worked with the irrigation district on getting
permission to have a pathway along the irrigation ditch?
Tamura: We met with Nampa-Meridian and we met with the parks department, so we
understand the guidelines as far as slope, you know, what we can fence and when we
can't fence and so the plan is that we want to keep it an open amenity and then
integrate the path as part of that, quote, amenity. One of the site designs that we did
was we reconfigured this kind of upper grouping of buildings. You know, one of the
requirements in the city for their zoning recommendation was to establish a 20 foot
setback, so we went ahead and pulled -- removed some of these parking spaces and
pulled all those buildings back up, so it gives us plenty of room to work with both the
ditch slopes and the path configuration. So the intent was to keep the path up on top,
you know, flat with the apartments and then have a gentle slope down to where the
ditch is at, so it's more of an engineering design question that we are working on right
now.
De Weerd: And how about maintenance of that?
Tamura: The agreement that we have got with the ditch company is that our intent is to
go ahead and fully maintain all of the ditch. They still have a -- you can see from the
dotted line we have provided the required easements for the ditch company to have
access, but it's our plan that we will go ahead and fully maintain that section of ditch.
So we will tie onto the existing pipe and it will be piped on both the east and west end
and just be open to the center section, but that will be part of the main maintenance of
our common area.
De Weerd: And I don't know if this question is for you or our attorney. Would I assume
that this is under the master agreement with the city and that city would have some
liability in this?
Nichols: Madam President, Members of the Council, as I see this project and what's
been represented is that the city would not own or maintain the pathway. Now
Nampa-Meridian have taken the position that they want all of the pathways in Meridian
to be subject to the city's master pathway agreement and I don't know if in Mr. Tamura's
discussion with the district that came up, but if this is the Settler's Canal, is that under
Nampa --
Tamura: This is Jackson Drain.
Nichols: Okay. The Jackson Drain is Nampa-Meridian, but the Settler's Canal is the
Settler's Irrigation District?
Tamura: Yes.
Meridian City Council Meeting
September 17, 2002
Page 26 of 65
Nichols: So -- and, typically, with the drains it's not as big an issue as it is with -- as you
know, with the laterals.
De Weerd: Okay. So this isn't Jackson -- no. The Jackson Drain?
Tamura: I believe in Meridian's comprehensive path program that the north bank of the
Jackson Drain was planned for a pedestrian pathway all the way through the city and
so, you know, whether we run into a liability situation here, I know that as you continue
on the northwest we are planning on being on the banks of the Jackson Drain through
that parcel, too. So I'm not sure of -- you know, maybe that's something I can work with
the city attorney as far as that whole liability issue.
Nichols: Madam President, I think what we also anticipated is if we have to somehow
sign a license agreement as a city with Nampa-Meridian on any of these pathways, we
would then look to the developer, to the commercial association, or in this case we are
looking at an apartment complex that's going to be owned by one entity and that entity
would then have to enter into an agreement to effectively indemnify and hold the city
harmless from any of those issues, including maintenance. I'm not so sure the irrigation
district's concern about this particular type of project would be the same as it would be
with a homeowners association in a subdivision, but just one of those things still being
worked out.
De Weerd: I guess we have had it occur often enough that we had to ask the question.
Was this eventually -- or does it immediately connect to Father Gill?
Siddoway: It does not immediately connect. There is still an undeveloped lot between
this property and Father Gill. I'll try and help bring up the vicinity map and show you
how that lays out. Okay. The actual path doesn't show up. It's just off the map. The
Jackson Drain runs from up in here, you can -- the lots that you can see in the upper
corner is Haron Brook Townhomes. On the other side of the Jackson Drain at that point
is where Father Gill is, it comes down to about this point. This large white property here
is still undeveloped and when it is developed it would then connect the pathway from
Fairview to Meridian Road.
Tamura: The Jackson Drain currently runs right through the northeast corner of the
mobile home part next door and then it enters into that large parcel. So there is actually
two parcels it runs through.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Tamura: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any other questions? Comments?
Bird: I have none.
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De Weerd: Okay. I would entertain a motion to close the Public Hearing.
Bird: So moved.
Nary: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. All in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Okay. Any discussion?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Having no discussion, I would entertain a motion. And I can't make
it, so --
Siddoway: Madam Chairman? I would just ask if there is any discussion about the
bollarded street issue. That really hasn't been discussed. If we approve it per the
recommendation, it will be a bollarded street and so I just bring that up.
De Weerd: Thank you, Steve.
Nary: They seemed okay with that, though.
Siddoway: The Commission recommended that.
Nary: Right. But I didn't hear Mr. Tamura object to that. I thought that was fine.
De Weerd: And, Steve, that was a condition at the ACHD, is that --
Siddoway: ACHD's condition was for it to connect.
De Weerd: Right. Well, Mr. Bird, if you wanted to be out by 9:00, you better make a
motion.
Bird: Madam President.
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would move that we approve the annexation and zoning of 24.89 acres from R-T
to C-G and an R-40 for the proposed Fairview Lakes by Hopkins Financial Services,
824 East Fairview Avenue, with staff comments, also the bollards on the street, and for
the attorney to draw up Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision of
Order.
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September 17, 2002
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Nary: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve the annexation and
zoning for Fairview Lakes. Is there any discussion? Okay. Hearing none, Mr. Clerk,
roll-call vote.
Roll-call vote: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; DeWeerd, aye; Bird, aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Thank you. Appreciate that. Okay. Item No. 12.
Bird: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we approve the Conditional Use Permit for a planned unit
development for the commercial building site of the proposed C-G of 192 unit
residential apartment complex in a proposed R-40 zone for proposed Fairview Lakes by
Hopkins Financial Services, Incorporated, 824 East Fairview Avenue, and for the
attorney to draw up Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision of Order
and also all staff comments.
McCandless: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve the Conditional Use
Permit for Fairview Lakes. Is there any discussion?
Siddoway: Madam Chairman, just for a point of clarification. When you say staff
comments, you're also including all of the Planning and Zoning Commission comments
in their recommendation.
Bird: Yes.
Siddoway: Okay.
De Weerd: That recommendation would supercede any staff comment that was in
conflict.
Siddoway: Right. I just wanted to clarify that for the record.
De Weerd: Okay. Okay. Roll call.
Roll-call vote: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; DeWeerd, aye; Bird, aye.
Meridian City Council Meeting
September 17, 2002
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De Weerd: Okay. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 13: Public Hearing: CUP 02-019
Request for Conditional Use Permit for an
office and shop for transmission service and repair in a C-G zone for
Bobby’s Transmission
by Treasure Valley Engineers – south of 835
East Fairview Avenue:
De Weerd: Okay. Item No. 13. Public Hearing on CUP 02-019, request for a
Conditional Use Permit for an office and shop for a transmission service and repair in a
C-G zone for Bobby's Transmission by Treasure Valley Engineers. Staff, do you want
to open that up? That would be you, Steve.
Siddoway: Thank you, Madam Chairman. I'm quickly switching folders. One moment.
Okay. Thank you, Madam Chairman, Members of the Council. The Bobby's
Transmission project is located on the south side of Fairview -- actually, across the
street from the project we just talked about. The Fairview Lakes project is in this piece
right here and the property we are talking about for Bobby's Transmission is on the
south, circled in black. It is behind the existing Ultra-Touch Car Wash and beside the
Roundtree Daewoe project. Creekside Arbor Apartments is on this property to the west.
You should have a recommendation from the Planning and Zoning Commission on this
one. I did have a couple of corrections to that recommendation that I'd like to bring up.
Item 1.1 states that the Planning and Zoning Commission advises that all landscape
trees to be placed upon the property should be four feet in height. We would see that
all the trees should meet the ordinance of at least two inch caliper. I believe the
discussion around this was related to the arbor vitaes that are along the south side of
the property. They wanted them to be -- they are shrubs and they wanted them to be at
least four feet in height and four feet on center when they are planted. I have a couple
of site photos for you to see. This is looking north from the property. You can see
Ultra-Touch Car Wash. This is looking towards Fairview. The Fairview Lakes property
would be in the distance. If you turn around and look south, the subject property is over
here on the right-hand side. You can see that it abuts an existing residential subdivision
to the south. The property to the east is currently undeveloped and looking west along
the south property line you can see Creekside Arbor Apartments in the distance, as well
as the existing residences, again, along the south property line. I apologize for the
quality of this. It was the only reduction that we had to scan in. Fairview is up here on
the north. Ultra-Touch Car Wash sits in here. The subject property is the dark area that
they are building in the center. They are proposing a buffer area in the -- along the
south. In reviewing these plans today, I discovered that that area, while it looks like it
has tree symbols in it, are noted as shrubs, three gallon shrubs I believe it calls out, and
I would just state that this is intended to be a buffer between land uses, which it is, that
they should be adding trees to that as well. The only other thing I need to point out at
this time is item 1.3, a recommendation from the Planning and Zoning Commission that
a ten foot wide asphalt pathway be constructed along Five Mile Creek. It courses
through the corner of the property at the southwest corner of the property. It would
become connected in the future with the Five Mile Creek pathway system, although it
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September 17, 2002
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does not currently connect. It is shown on the Comprehensive Plan, so that
requirement would be in compliance with that. I guess with that as an introduction, here
is the building elevations for their proposed structure. And I think that's it, so I will stand
for any questions.
De Weerd: Council, do you have any questions of staff at this time?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Is the applicant here? We need to swear you in. And since our city
clerk says I didn't do it right the first time, I will try it again. Please raise your right hand.
Do you promise and affirm that the testimony you give tonight is the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Schultz: Yes.
De Weerd: Thank you. Go ahead and state your name and address.
Schultz: My name is Art Schultz. I'm with Treasure Valley Engineers in Nampa. Our
address is 1117 Caldwell Boulevard. And I do represent Mr. Larry Palmer, who is the
owner of Bobby's Transmission. We have reviewed the comments that came back in
regarding all the issues that we had recommended. We intend to comply with all those
comments. Just wanted to further clarify my understanding of the trees in the back of
that house -- of the buffer zone. Could you get that picture that's up there? I guess if I
realized you had a bad picture I would have brought another set of plans with me, so --
Siddoway: I'm going to --
Schultz: That's a little better. What we had discussed was the reason why the shrubs
were along the -- along the access road was we didn't want trees to grow up and hang
over the sewer access. That access road is for sewer maintenance and so on and so
the concern that -- in talking with Bruce Freckleton was that he didn't trees to grow up
and create a canopy that would be difficult to get through and then adjacent to what you
see as a compacted area, the vehicle storage area, there would be a fence, a six foot
high chain link fence and then adjacent to that, right behind it, would be the arbor vitaes
and the whole point of putting the arbor vitaes in there was to create a screen from the
neighboring property. And so you can see that all along the southern boundary and in
the western boundary of that is vehicle storage area, that's where the arbor vitaes would
grow up and screen that area. And then he would complete the landscaping with some
sort of a brush or a bush that would give that that landscaped appearance.
De Weerd: Has staff -- does that meet the landscaping ordinance?
Siddoway: Madam Chairman, the landscape ordinance by the letter of the law would
require a 20-foot buffer at that location. Because of the conflict with an existing sewer
easement, they have been granted, if you will, a form of alternative compliance. They
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September 17, 2002
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have the full distance with the 16-foot access road, plus a 14-foot buffer was what they
came up with and in that 14-foot buffer for the landscaping itself it would be planted. My
conversations with Bruce earlier -- I believe that as long as we put in trees they are
beyond that 16 foot mark and we dealt with species that were -- had, you know,
nonwater seeking root systems, the canopy issues can be dealt with, so that they don't
-- they are pruned so that don't they conflict with access and it would -- the intent of the
ordinance would be to -- I believe it says enclose the vertical surface at least 60 percent
in three years, which we have usually interpreted to mean trees planted such that their
canopies touch at maturity. I believe that we could -- I'm going to look at Gary, but I
think that we could work out something where we could get trees to satisfy the buffering
requirements and not interfere with the sewer access.
De Weerd: Would ten feet be a sufficient amount of room for them to grow in?
Siddoway: Yeah. As long as they are not -- as long as they are not an evergreen tree
that would be about 20 foot at the base. If you were to do a deciduous tree trunk ten
feet -- we plant them in five-foot parking lots and planters all the time -- planters in
parking lots. So, yeah, ten feet would work for those types of trees.
Schultz: Actually, the owner doesn't really have any preference. If you want three-inch
trees, that's fine, we are not opposed to that.
De Weerd: Okay. Were there any other comments you wanted to make on the --
Schultz: We are perfectly satisfied.
De Weerd: Okay. Do you have any questions, Council?
Bird: I have none.
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I have a concern about the fencing. It is homes on the other side; right? After
that buffer zone?
Schultz: Yeah. There is a fence just on the south boundary there by the access road
and homes behind it.
Nary: A chain link fence that -- I think was it two to three years before it would actually
be screening the vehicles; right? There wasn't any intent to put slats in the fence or
anything like that?
Schultz: That was the purpose of the arbor vitaes was to create a screening effect and
then those would grow up and pretty much taller, I'm sure, than the fence.
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September 17, 2002
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Nary: But for two or three years there wouldn't be any real screening, other than the
trees as they are growing to provide some screening for all those cars that are going to
be stored in that spot. Was there any discussion about simply just providing, you know,
like down here right by the train tracks there is a car place that has, you know, the white
slating in the fence, again, providing screening to the vehicles on the other side of it.
Has there been any discussion or --
Schultz: There really hasn't. The purpose of the arbor vitaes would be to provide that
screening. Otherwise, then --
Nary: Well, I was looking at something now. If I lived over there, I don't want to wait
three years until the trees grow, because we have had plenty of people come in and say
the trees aren't growing and it's not screening and all that and so I guess I'm more
interested in something that's going to satisfy the folks now.
Schultz: There has been conversations about that. I don't know if the owner really has
any objection to that, you know, or not.
Nary: Well, maybe we can -- if anybody else has a comment and let's not be concerned
-- the problem with that, I guess, rather than see the people having some screening
now, rather than two or three years from now.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. We do have one signed up to testify against the project.
Lucy. Raise your right hand. Do you promise and affirm that the testimony you give
tonight is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Lavelle: I do.
De Weerd: Thank you. State your name and address.
Lavelle: My name is Lucy Lavelle. My address is 2720 South Aerial Lane, Meridian,
Idaho. My husband and I are the principal owners of Creekside Arbor to the west and
we were concerned somewhat about this screening against those vehicles. We were
happy with the provision that the P&Z Commissioners made that the Arbor Vitae be four
feet tall at planting. That seemed a reasonable request to us for screening that area. I
didn't get the distance between them, but our main concerns at this point -- we were
concerned about having that kind of shop that close to the nice -- well, any residential
areas, but we have become convinced Mr. Palmer will be a good neighbor and will
conduct his -- maintain his property in an orderly and attractive manner, even though it's
not all public access area. We are concerned -- at this point our main concern is that it
was mentioned at P&Z and was not clarified to my satisfaction, he will have -- I believe
they required him or agreed with him on restricted business hours and also the C-G
requires that the business be conducted primarily within a building and it had been
mentioned that they might want to store snow plows or dispatch snow plows from that
property, which seems to me a different business and that's what I would like to prevent
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September 17, 2002
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at this point. First of all, storing them outdoors is not an indoor business. Secondly,
dispatching them cannot be maintained -- you know, cannot be confined to particular
business hours, because they are dispatched all hours of the day and night as needed
by the public and so I feel that that's not an appropriate activity that close to residences.
And that is my only concern with this project at this time.
De Weerd: Thank you. Is there any questions?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Thank you. Are there any other comments or testimony to be given? Mr.
Palmer. Do you promise and affirm that the testimony you give tonight is the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Palmer: I do.
De Weerd: Thank you. State your name and address.
Palmer: My name is Larry Palmer, 210 East Fairview. The snowplows -- obviously,
whenever it snows, that's when they go. They are regular Chevy pickups like you would
park in your own garage. They don't make any more noise than a vehicle you pull out of
your garage and go to work with. They are all registered with the state, they are all -- all
the good things that you have to do, all these plows have the same restrictions. They
will sit out there all day long and all summer long and do nothing, but in the winter when
it snows we fire them up and go. We are not firing them up and playing with them on
the property, we go to Fred Meyers, Outdoor Sports, where ever and plow snow. So we
are not spending all night at the shop. We may have to bring one back and pull it in and
work on it if something goes wrong, but we are not spending all night playing with the
plows on that property. I don't see it being a big deal, personally.
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer, can you -- Steve, can you show his lot site plan? If you could
point out where they will be parked.
Palmer: In the storage unit on the south side there inside the fence.
De Weerd: Okay.
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I guess, Mr. Palmer, I'm looking at your application. There is nothing in your
application to indicate that you're operating that kind of business from your location.
This just talks about your transmission business. So I guess I'm a little concerned that
the lady that just spoke before you is right, I mean that's a different kind of business
than what you're proposing to do, it's an additional business. It may be fine, but I guess
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September 17, 2002
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I'm a little concerned, because it doesn't -- it isn't included in your application, it's an
additional thing. The other thing is that the conditions placed on your business at the
Planning and Zoning say 8:00 to 6:00 to operate that business. So -- and I recognize
that that isn't practical for a snow plow business, but they included those conditions on
there. It says the hours of operation of the transmission shop and any noise or vibration
of any equipment shall be limited to those hours presented, which are Monday through
Friday. So why is that? Why wasn't there any discussion about that and why isn't that
included?
Palmer: We did discuss that at the conditional use and --
Nary: Okay.
Palmer: -- we agreed it wouldn't be a problem. I mean we were right up front with it,
that we would park the snow plows in there. That's the only reason she knew. She was
at the meeting. She was -- you know, it's not on the paper. She didn't come up to that
on her own. We were there and it was discussed and they felt that it wasn't a problem.
Nary: And maybe it's just a disagreement between you and I. It isn't up front. It isn't in
the application. She shouldn't have to come to the meeting to find out there is
something else that you are going to do, besides what you would put in your
application. That's the purpose of it. Now what were your thoughts on screening that
fence off? Because what I hear you saying is you are going to park those trucks there
ten months out of the year and really not move them. So now if I'm living on the other
side of that, I got a chain link fence and trees that take three years to grow, the trucks
are parked there ten months out of the year. So what's your thought about screening
that fence off?
Palmer: I don't have any problems screening the fence. I never did have a problem.
We are trying to do whatever it takes. There is a -- except on the west side, which all
they have is a chain link fence along the creek there on their own, but on the south side
there is a wood -- six foot wooden fence all across the south side, which they have their
own screening, plus what screening we would have. On the other side -- on the west
side over here on her apartment area, they don't have any screening for their apartment
area either, it's just a chain link fence. I guess I could have put that in there. I guess at
the time I didn't, you know, really get if it a thought. I have been plowing snow for 12
years --
Nary: How many trucks is it?
Palmer: I have ten.
Nary: I mean I guess I can understand the concern of the neighbors. I mean it probably
isn't very much noisier than other vehicles, but now it's, you know, maybe ten vehicles
at 3:00 o'clock in the morning coming up there, starting up their trucks, driving to your
business at 3:00 o'clock in the morning, parking their cars, then starting up these trucks
Meridian City Council Meeting
September 17, 2002
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and then taking off and there is some associated noise with that and that's different
than what your application is for and I guess I just disagree with the Planning and
Zoning that that's not any impact to those neighbors. I think it is some.
Palmer: I might bring up that the hours, you know, the operational hours, was not --
they didn't -- they didn't say I couldn't operate any other hours, it was a voluntary thing
that I said this is the hours that I operate my shop now. That is the intent from here on.
It wasn't -- you know, they didn't say we aren't going to allow you X number of hours a
day to operate, they didn't put any restrictions on it, it was a voluntary -- what are your
hours and what is your intent. Well, that's what I do and I have been doing for 14 years.
I just kind of carried it on over. It was an oversight on the snow plow or --
Nary: But now it is a restriction. How you can't operate --
Palmer: I understand that.
Nary: And I understand what you're saying. And I -- like the lady, I know you're going
to be a good neighbors, that's not a concern, but there are other people that live there,
there is other folks that come later and say, wait a minute, how come this business is
operating, those kinds of things. And I guess I'm just a little concerned because it's not
addressed at all.
Palmer: My mistake.
Bird: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Mr. Palmer, how many -- what will you average with your snow plow call outs a
year?
Palmer: How many?
Bird: How many call-outs a year do you use your plows?
Palmer: It really depends on the year, but we might have probably a maximum of ten
snows, you know, we go out on two inches. Ten snows a year would be a decent year
for me. I don't know that we have had a whole lot more than that --
De Weerd: That's unusual.
Palmer: We haven't had a lot of snow lately, so -- but maybe a good average year
would be ten nights that we -- we may even start long before quitting hours at the shop.
We may start at 4:00 in the afternoon and run all night and never even come back until
the next morning, you know. And I don't know run all ten trucks. I usually run five to six
trucks at a time is all. I use the rest for spares.
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September 17, 2002
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Bird: Also on this 8:00 to 6:00 restriction, five days a week, what if you have got an
emergency or something and need to finish somebody's transmission -- say he comes
in and it's an emergency, some motorhome that -- or vehicle that people were passing
through and it's going to run you until 7:00, tell them to go get a motel and spend the
night.
Palmer: We addressed that, I guess, at the meetings or -- we did address that, that our
standard policy would be 8:00 in the morning until 6:00 in the evening and that exact
words were brought up that if somebody came in, they were out of town, we may have
to work a little late to get them going, that would be an unusual thing. It's not an every
day thing, but it happens and we would certainly want to be allowed to do that.
Bird: That's a condition that --
Palmer: There, again, my mistake, because we did address that and they may not have
put that in there, but it was brought up for a fact, because I brought it up myself.
Bird: Well, I, for one, don't -- unless it's a business that produces lots of noise, I hate
seeing anybody -- everybody likes to work the 8:00 to 5:00, five days a week, but once
in awhile we all have emergencies that we have to work late and I hate to have
restrictions on something like that, but --
De Weerd: And your storage area, that's going to be gravel?
Palmer: We wanted it to be, but they told us it had to be asphalt.
De Weerd: Okay.
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Steve, so on this issue regarding the snow plow business, I mean was that
addressed at the Planning and Zoning Commission and they just didn't think it was any
impact at all?
Siddoway: I was at the first Planning and Zoning Commission meeting on this and it
didn't come up. I'm sure it did come up at the second meeting and I believe David
McKinnon was there, so I do not know the testimony personally on that one.
De Weerd: Is there any more questions for Mr. Palmer?
Bird: I have none.
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September 17, 2002
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De Weerd: Do you have anything to add? Okay. Thank you. Are you reviewing
minutes right now?
Nary: Yes. Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I'm looking at the minutes from the Planning and Zoning Commission from
August 15, but I'm on page 103 of 112 of the -- and this is the first reference I have
seen. They are talking about the outside storage and Mr. Palmer says I have ten snow
plows. I don't have to put them there, I have them at my house now, it would be more
convenient to get them ready to go in the winter and it would be just more convenient to
run them into the shop, work on them and store them there, it's not a mandatory thing. I
don't store them there now. So I guess I'm a little curious as to how it went from that
comment to basically storing them there the rest of the year and I don't have the time to
read -- there is 112 pages there, but I guess -- I guess I'm just concerned that there is
discussion here about the dealer's license and having cars parked there for sale, which
is part of the discussion, and that's fine. Because that was at least part of it, but it
doesn't have a whole lot of information in here that there is a discussion about operating
a snow plow business from this site and that's what he's asking to do in addition and
right now I guess the -- I guess right now we can approve the recommendation as
presented, but Mr. Palmer can't run the business from there, he can't run his snow plow
business based upon the -- we can adjust the hours a little bit to deal with the
transmission, but I think -- I think the other lady was correct, it's not the same business,
it's not what was presented in the application. He can ask to amend the CUP to include
it and we can have a Public Hearing at Planning and Zoning, we can notify the
neighbors, see what it is that he's going to do. It may have no impact at all, but I don't
think it's fair to both Mr. Palmer and to the other neighbors to simply approve that and
try to work up the conditions tonight without really any testimony about it to know if it will
have any impact at all. It probably won't, but the Planning and Zoning Commission
needs to hear about it and they need to make that recommendation to us to do it
properly. So I guess the bottom line is I think we just have to leave it out and he can't
do that unless he gets an amended CUP to operate something else there in addition to
what he's asked for, which is only a transmission shop and I think we can deal with
some of the hours. I think Mr. Bird is right, we want hours that are reasonable, but I
think the snowplow thing, we just can't really deal with that tonight.
De Weerd: Mr. Nichols -- and I don't know how the applicant feels about this, but do we
have two choices here? We could -- if the applicant wants to go ahead without the
snow plows as part of this application, we could go ahead and act on that tonight, or if
he would like it as part of the application, to remand it back to P&Z and re-post it. So
that he doesn't have to resubmit a whole new application and that sort of thing or would
those be the choices there?
Nichols: Madam President, Members of the Council, I think that's correct. It could be
sent back to P&Z and a new notice out that this is an issue to be covered to the
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September 17, 2002
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neighbors, essentially those within the 300 feet area. So you could see if that's an
issue, some particular thing that has to be addressed, but also give Mr. Palmer an
opportunity to look and see how many snow days he's actually had each year, because
I think that would be information that would be important to the neighbors to know.
Certainly wouldn't be the same as if this business were in McCall. And if it's ten days a
year it may be a relatively insignificant issue and it might be one that somebody wants
to address, you could remand it just on that particular issue alone, so that it's a very
narrowly focused item, if you choose.
De Weerd: Thank you. So the applicant, you may want to respond. If you would like to
pursue with parking the snow plows there and operating that type of function out of this
proposal, we could do something like that, so you wouldn't have to file a whole new
application and it's a little bit less time and certainly less money, or you can choose to
proceed and they -- Council could make a recommendation tonight excluding that part
of your business.
Palmer: If I went -- if I went with the snowplows, we would have to go back to P&Z;
right? Which would be a big time factor; correct?
De Weerd: It would be 30 day notice -- Mr. Berg, could you have -- so in 13 days it
could go back or three weeks it could go back to P&Z, they could rule on it, then it
would come back to us again.
Palmer: I think I'd prefer to eliminate it for the time factor, because winter is coming on
and the chance to get started going. I guess what I'm understanding is I could resubmit
to do that later?
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Palmer: Okay. That would probably be my best bet for now.
Nary: Madam President. One thing, Mr. Palmer, is you would have to pay another fee.
Palmer: I understand.
Nary: And you couldn't operate it until you had an amended CUP. So you have to
operate it somewhere else until you did it. If you remand it now, you wouldn't have to
pay another fee and we would probably get it back before it snowed anyway. Probably.
This is the government, so probably.
Palmer: But would I have my building by then.
Nary: True.
Palmer: But it's more important that I get the building, than I get the snow plows.
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September 17, 2002
Page 39 of 65
Nary: Okay. As long as you knew that this winter, then, it's likely you may not have that
-- it may not happen for this winter.
Palmer: So you're not going to restrict me from working on them in my shop; right?
Nary: Oh, no.
De Weerd: No.
Palmer: All right. I understand. Yeah. Just don't store them there. I mean I actually
run the snow plow business as Bobby's Transmission. I bill it through Bobby's
Transmission, you know.
Bird: That's okay.
Palmer: Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, is there any further discussion or would we like to close the
Public Hearing?
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I was going to ask Mr. Palmer -- and I guess he can just wave at us if he wants
to, but on the issue of the timing of the shop, I think the 8:00 to 6:00 you said is your
normal operating that business. Is 8:00 to 8:00 reasonable, so that would allow -- give
you some flexibility around the 6:00 o'clock hour? I don't want you to close down if
someone brings it in at 5:30 if there is some reason, but, you know, I don't know if that's
reasonable or not. Does that work for you?
Palmer: Yeah. 8:00 to 8:00 would work for me. Maybe on a weekend occasionally -- I
did kind of bring this up at the other meeting, just under emergencies or if we wanted to
work on own vehicles, personal vehicles, we would want to come in -- we would do it
with the doors closed, it wouldn't be like we would be operational through the business,
you know, and I brought that up and, of course, I'm learning more about this, you got to
kind of get it in writing, whatever you got to do. I'm learning a lot. But I failed in some of
the things that I did, but I appreciate the extra hours and if we wanted to work on our
own vehicles on the weekend or -- you know, we are not making lots of noise anyway,
just, you know, going in and doing service on our own vehicles or something like that,
why I would appreciate if I could do that. We have employees that I can't let them work
on their own vehicles during the working hours, obviously, and sometimes they like to
do their own oil changes and rebuild their own transmissions or whatever and the
problems they have on their own vehicles on their own time.
Bird: And you don't bill them through Bobby's Transmission, do you?
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September 17, 2002
Page 40 of 65
Palmer: Bill them?
Bird: Yeah.
Palmer: Don't bill them, no.
Bird: That's isn't business. That would not -- in my opinion, that isn't business, so that
would not affect your hours.
De Weerd: Yeah. That would be billable hours.
Bird: That would be billable hours and if you're going in on the weekend working on
your own cars -- your employees are going in changing their transmissions or oil or
doing whatever, you're not billing them for it. That's not business.
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: But that's not what this prohibition says. That's not what this condition says. It
says the hours of operation of the shop and any noise or vibrating equipment. So this
provision wouldn't allow them to work on their own vehicles, so maybe that's what we
need to do is to look at that and her concerns from the neighbor were originally that -- of
what the hours were and what the business was going to be, so --
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Palmer. Lucy, would you like to comment on that?
Lavelle: I would. Thank you. I'm Lucy Lavelle. Yes. I see absolutely no problem and I
did not leave the Planning and Zoning meeting thinking that that was going to be hard
and fast. It was addressed that there are people with emergencies who do need a
vehicle fixed and I think that it would be best if -- for everybody concerned if there was
some kind of wording that allowed them an occasional time to fix a vehicle for someone
in distress, like travelers, or to operate on it during those same hours on Saturday as a
private concern and not open to business. I don't see any impact on the neighborhood
if you allowed that. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Council, the Public Hearing is still open. I would
entertain a motion to close it, unless you have further comments or discussion or
questions for staff.
McCandless: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mrs. McCandless.
McCandless: I move we close the Public Hearing.
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September 17, 2002
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Nary: Second.
De Weerd: All those in favor of closing the Public Hearing say aye. All ayes. Motion
carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Is there any discussion? A motion? Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we approve the Conditional Use Permit for an office and shop for
transmission service and repair in a C-G zone for Bobby's Transmission by Treasure
Valley Engineers, south of 835 East Fairview Avenue, with the conditions from Planning
& Zoning with one amended condition, normal business hours will be between 8:00 and
8:00, five days a week, with the exception of emergencies or nonchargeable personal
repairs. Does that sound legal? Did you get that? Anyway, that's what I'm going to
state.
Nary: Mr. Nichols can pretty it up.
Bird: Yeah. He will make it right.
De Weerd: Is there a second?
Nary: I would second it, but --
De Weerd: Before discussion.
Nary: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. We have a motion and a second. Is there any discussion?
Nary: On the landscape trees, Mr. Bird -- because right now it says they must always
cut their trees down to four feet in height.
Bird: No. That was changed by staff comments.
Nary: So that's pursuant to the staff comments tonight that they be two inches or
caliper --
Bird: Caliper. Yeah.
Nary: And is there any need or concern about screening on the chain link fence that's
facing that -- facing the residences? Obviously, there is already screening --
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September 17, 2002
Page 42 of 65
Bird: I think the comment was that it be screened and he had no problem -- the owner
had no problem with --
Nary: On the screen fencing that faces the residential lots that --
Bird: On that south. The south side.
De Weerd: That's also part of the --
Bird: Well, the owner agreed to that with his comments and we included all comments
in there.
Siddoway: Madam Chairman, just for clarification, Mr. Bird, the motion, when you
mentioned staff comments, that references that the arbor vitaes should still be at least
four feet in height and four feet on center when planted. The trees should be at least
two inch caliper and there would be trees added along the -- that buffer on the south
property line.
Bird: And the owner agreed to it.
Siddoway: Okay.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further discussion? Okay. Hearing none, Mr. Berg, roll-call
vote.
Roll-call vote: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; DeWeerd, aye; Bird, aye.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: I would entertain a motion for a ten-minute break.
Bird: I would second that. I'd make the motion.
De Weerd: So that we can all go make our phone calls to the telethon.
(Recess.)
Item 14: Public Hearing: VAR 02-014
Request for a Variance to permit splitting
off a 12-acre parcel in the southeast corner of a 40-acre parcel of ground
Ronald Van Auker
in an I-L zone for located at 2170 West Franklin Road:
De Weerd: Okay. We are on Item No. 14, Public Hearing for Variance 02-014, request
for a variance to permit splitting off a 12-acre parcel in the southeast corner of a 40-acre
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September 17, 2002
Page 43 of 65
parcel of ground in an I-L zone for Ronald Van Auker and with that I will start off with
staff. Steve, do you have any comments?
Siddoway: Thank you, Madam Chairman. The subject property is on Franklin Road
west of Linder. It's outlined in black, adjacent to the existing Caparelli Subdivision. The
variance that is before you tonight is basically a request to allow for a one-time lot split
without going through the platting procedures. The ordinance would require this to be
done through a preliminary/final plat process and the reason for the variance is an
urgent timing issue on the part of Sanitary Services Corporation. They would like to
split off 12 acres -- I believe the configuration is something like this. And on that 12-
acre parcel they would be putting a new office and maintenance facility. They have
outgrown their old one. There was a recent fire and they are needing to move quickly.
I'll let the applicant actually address their issues related to that. The staff
recommendation in the report is for approval with four conditions and with that I would
stand for any questions.
De Weerd: Council, do you have any questions?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Applicant? Do you promise and affirm that the testimony you give
tonight is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Miller: Yes, ma'am.
De Weerd: Please state your name and address.
Miller: Madam President, Members of the Council, my name is Brad Miller, 3084 East
Lanark in Meridian and I work for Ronald W. Van Auker. We are before you tonight to
request a variance to be able to split off an approximately 12-acre parcel in the
southeast corner of this 43-acre parcel. It's annexed into the city and zoned I-L. The
Sanitary Services folks have approached us and have an urgent need to be able to
purchase this property and to build a facility for their sanitation business. We would like
to be able to split that off and then come in at a later date, preferably within probably the
next six months with the preliminary plat and will include that 12 acre parcel within the
preliminary plat, because we would like to do some dedications of roads on both the
westerly boundary and the easterly boundary. We met with Elaine Martin of Marcon,
who has the parcel to the east and we talked with her about doing a joint road there
along our eastern boundary and her western boundary, so she could have permanent
dedicated access from that point. If there is any questions, I would be more than happy
to answer them.
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none.
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September 17, 2002
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Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Steve, why is there a need to even do a lot split at this point? I mean this is
zoned that Mr. Van Auker's property can build that and then plat it later. Do we even
need to do this?
Siddoway: That's a good question. I suppose the property is eligible for a single
building permit without it being split off.
Miller: I can answer that question. We would need to split it off, because Sanitary
Services or an entity that's formed by the owners of Sanitary Services would own that
parcel and so it's not something that we would build and lease back to them, they would
physically own that and so in order for them to get their financing and things, they would
have to have a separate legal parcel --
Nary: Okay.
Miller: -- that they could secure the loan with.
Nary: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. This is a Public Hearing. Is there any additional testimony? We do
have Irma Atkinson signed up. Do you promise and affirm that the testimony you give
tonight is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Atkinson: I do.
De Weerd: Thank you. And please state your name and address.
Atkinson: I'm Irma Calnon Atkinson. I live at 1124 North Lightning Place, which isn't
really near this, although technically I can see that property with my binoculars from my
patio. I tried it this evening. I'm here representing my parents, Wilbur and Ula Calnon,
who live at 2155 West Franklin Road. They would have -- that's good. I'm magic. I can
point. Okay. That's their property. They have two acres there. I'm also representing
my Uncle Mark V. Calnon at -- all right. I'm making up the address, but it should be
close -- 2215 West Franklin, which he has the other 77 acres. There. Okay. A couple
of months ago I could have represented by brother who had that little tiny one acre spot
there in the corner, but he defected and got married at age 46 and moved to Columbia
Village. I hope that doesn't reflect badly on my family. Okay. So I'm here because my
parents and my uncle are in their 80s, this is way past their bedtime. My father ran
Calnon Floral for 50 years on his property. My uncle farmed his 77 acres and was a
county agent for many years. They understand that they won't live there forever on their
property, but Steve was asking me what plans they had for like -- they just want to like,
you know, live there forever. So they do understand that they won't be there forever,
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September 17, 2002
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they understand the zoning through the school of hard knocks here and we will help
them, but they understand the zoning and the Comprehensive Plan. I don't think they
have an overwhelming objection, they just have concerns, and I know there has been
some confusion, because the property at -- the number was inverted on some
documents that said 2710 and it was published I think that way, and so I was down
watching Kenny Bowers' parents house thinking, well, this must be down here and then
my parents did show me the new letter that they had got indicating that it was right
there. So they feel kind of confused by the confusion around where the property was
and the speed that this is being rushed through at. The primary concern -- I think there
is three of them. One is the property value. Looking at the new Comprehensive Plan,
the last map I saw -- I think that it had been hoped that there would be a neighborhood
center in that area. I doubt that's going to happen if Sanitary Services goes in there, so
I think my parents had a lot of question about what's going to happen to their property
and the value of that as the piece across the street is developed. And I don't expect any
answers, but those are just their concerns. My mother has concerns about what she's
going to be looking at, what she's going to be hearing and smelling, which, of course, is
kind of ironic, because my uncle raised sheep. Okay? All right. But that's on their list
and I understand that and I think buffering, buffering, buffering could take care of those
concerns for her. They have a concern about traffic on Franklin Road, that it's a two
lane road and the increased traffic with the garbage trucks going in and out of there. So
those are their concerns. My concerns -- the important one here -- as their adult child --
two years ago I joined that club of adult children whose elderly parents tell them jack
nothing about their health problems and so -- and with my brother, who was so
convenient forever, living next door to them, defecting to Columbia Village, I suddenly
have a new role in life of driving by and spying on them with my binoculars, because I
can see their driveway with my binoculars, but I worry about where -- as that piece
develops, where the streets going into it will be. My father recently decided not to drive,
which this is a good thing. My mother drives for him. You know -- and I drive them
whenever I can, but I can see if they are directly across from their driveway -- there is a
driveway with garbage trucks coming in and out, they won't be going anywhere and if
they do it will be scary. My mother is a wonderful woman who never wanted to drive
and if you're going down Franklin in a 45 -- what is the speed limit there? Forty-five?
Okay. Fifty. We will call it 45, just -- as the police chief. But, anyway, if you're going
45, she is the old lady in the van going 20 miles an hour in front of you, okay, because
she is not an assertive driver and I can easily see her not going -- wanting to go
anywhere if there is so much traffic, not just on Franklin, but coming at her. So I have
concerns about how that property will get mapped out, you know, and from purely
selfish adult child point of view, this property has been in their family since 1918, maybe
1917. There was a little disagreement about that earlier tonight, you know, and I think
they have earned -- they have been good community members, they have earned I
guess the right to live there as long as they can in safety. So I guess they don't have an
issue with something going in there, they just have an issue, I guess, a concern with
how it goes in, what the traffic flow is going to be. Okay. Questions?
De Weerd: Just a comment. The property across the street, that has been zoned --
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September 17, 2002
Page 46 of 65
Atkinson: Oh, light industrial forever.
De Weerd: -- light industrial forever.
Atkinson: Yeah.
De Weerd: So, you know, that couldn't have been planned as a neighborhood center,
because it's already annexed and zoned.
Atkinson: Okay. But I think their property is what they are referring to.
De Weerd: Oh, their property.
Atkinson: And I kind of doubt that would happen.
De Weerd: Is that right, Steve? What is that designated as?
Siddoway: Madam Chairman, the earlier version of the Comprehensive Plan did have a
neighborhood center there. It was taken out and that area is currently designated on
the south side of Franklin as mixed use regional.
Atkinson: So it could be anything.
De Weerd: Okay. A higher commercial industrial use; correct?
McCandless: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mrs. McCandless.
McCandless: It would seem to me that the garbage trucks wouldn't be running up and
down Franklin all day. They would be coming out at a certain time and going back in at
a certain, but for the rest of the time they would be all over the city, they wouldn't be
concentrating on Franklin Road.
Atkinson: And maybe they can address that. I don't know what the hours are when
they come and go and when their drivers come and go.
McCandless: Exactly, but they wouldn't be there all day, so you certainly would be able
to drive without worry about them during part of the day.
Atkinson: I hope so.
De Weerd: I believe the applicant can probably answer many of your questions, both
here in testimony and showing you plans. As I understand it, they have a good buffer
and some nice landscaping plans that maybe the applicant can address that and --
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September 17, 2002
Page 47 of 65
Atkinson: Certainly. Anything that they can do to communicate with my family would
probably help. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Irma.
Miller: Brad Miller. I appreciate your comments very much. It would be our objective,
since we will continue to own 31 acres there, that the owners of the 12 acres not be an
objectionable use. I know that Steve and Bill are very responsible. We have gone over
their plans and what they plan to do and I don't anticipate any problems. Since we will
own property to the north and property to the west that we hope to develop at some
point in the future, I don't anticipate any problems. If there is a problem, I'll get after
them, because it will negatively impact us. And Steve can answer questions about
when the trucks come in and come out, but it would be our objective to make sure this
property is developed out in a responsible manner with as little impact as possible to the
people across the street and we respect their right to be able to live there and not be
negatively impacted. So we will try to be good neighbors.
De Weerd: Thank you, Steve. Do you promise and affirm that the testimony you give
tonight is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Sedlacek: I do.
De Weerd: Please state your name and address.
Sedlacek: Madam Chairman, Members of the Council, my name is Steve Sedlacek, I'm
with Sanitary Service Company, 722 West Franklin. With regard to the comments on
our operation, we currently have -- I'm just trying to count the trucks in my head. We
have been through this a number of times before Planning and Zoning on the other
parcel that we were looking at. I believe we have about 11 trucks that leave in the
morning. One truck leaves early, it's a commercial truck, it leaves the site at about 5:00
o'clock in the morning, and the other trucks leave at 7:00. And then they will come back
to the yard when they are done. We didn't see them at all during the day. So they
typically roll back in between 1:00 and 3:00. So basically our -- there is nothing going
on on our parcel or our property at all during the day. There is no traffic. I mean there
is a few people coming and going, vendors, people wanting to talk to us, but very little
impact. We have been looking for light industrial zone property, because that's what we
-- that's the only zone we -- the way I understand it -- and we have been through this
process a number of times -- that's the only place we can be and so we have looked for
I-L zone property and this is one. We like being on Franklin, because it has a high
speed limit and there is going to be an expanded roadway there. I assume it's going to
be going to five lanes some day. There is going to be a Ten Mile interchange, so we
will have very good access to the freeway. We wanted to be south of the railroad tracks
to avoid impacts to the neighborhood to the north, which, obviously, we have been
through that before and that didn't work out. So we feel like this is a great piece and the
one question I can't answer is I don't know where our driveway would be with respect to
your parents' driveway. We would be happy to look at that and adjust that. That's not a
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September 17, 2002
Page 48 of 65
problem at all. As we would enter our property there would be a large parking lot. Our
building would be setback. We will have landscaping along the southern -- well, around
the entire parcel. We are not a company that screens for people to come visit us. We
don't want traffic to come see us. We do our business outside in the community. You
know, we are not -- you know, we don't have a drive-up or anything like that, so -- we
are not retail. So we would just as soon not be seen. We have got, you know, plans
and specs ready to go, we have got an architect ready to do this, depending on what we
find out tonight.
De Weerd: Thank you, Steve. Do you have any questions?
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Mr. Sedlacek, I just heard you say -- you're going to have a large parking lot in
front, so that you're going to park the vehicles close to Franklin?
Sedlacek: No. That's the employee parking.
Nary: Employee parking.
Sedlacek: Right. And then what we would have -- I'm not sure of the distance back of
the building, but it would be -- we would have the building and then fencing running
east west and behind that fencing are the trucks and the shop.
Nary: Could you maybe put a -- just very, very briefly on the record -- I mean kind of the
imperativeness of trying to get this accomplished now, why it can't wait six months or
ten months or two years or however long it is, why there is an urgency to do it.
Sedlacek: Basically we are operating out of a parcel of land that's about an acre and a
half at 722 West Franklin. We have no room to park trucks anymore. We are plum full.
We could go out and continue to rent more and more land, which is, I guess, an
alternative for us, but we have an obligation to the city to service the citizens for a
minimum of the next 15 years and what we consider is how many times will the city
double in the next 15 years. I'm going to guess twice. Now that will lead to more trucks
that we park on this parcel, but the point is we have no room left to do our job. We have
a one bay shop, we need a two bay shop to keep up with our maintenance. A
secondary issue is the shop burned down about a month ago. Fortunately, it's been
rebuilt, but it's still inadequate. We have been scrounging space. I mean luckily the
weather has been good. It didn't happen in the middle of winter. So the mechanics
have basically been able to do their jobs by lying in the dirt in the parking lot, which they
are not too crazy about. We have to move somewhere and we will, there is no doubt
about it. We will move somewhere within the city or somewhere outside the city, but we
have to go somewhere. The parcel that we are on now is also in Ada county, hasn't
been annexed. I don't know that our use is consistent with the county zoning, which is
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September 17, 2002
Page 49 of 65
rural transition. That's a whole other can of worms that we really can't open up yet. I
hope we never do. So as the city grows, you know, there is nothing slowing down the
city's growth at all and that's good. I mean we want to be here as a contract to the city,
but have to have the facilities to do our job and that's what we are looking at and this is
one potential piece.
De Weerd: Thank you. Does that answer your --
Nary: If you could just -- the six or nine months that it would take to get platted and the
subdivision problems and all of that, why is that inadequate?
Sedlacek: We, in nine months, will have -- will probably need to purchase at least two
more trucks to do commercial and residential collection, perhaps another recycling truck
in addition. There is no physical space to park them. I mean I -- I guess I can -- I don't
physically know where I could put them. I just can't wait that long. The prior parcel we
were looking at on Ten Mile and Ustick, it took a couple years to get through that and
that's certainly a different issue where we needed to be annexed and zoned, where this
already is annexed and zoned, but, nonetheless, that process took a long time and we
all went through that. It did -- we just can't take much more time.
Nary: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Steve. Okay. Council, the Public Hearing is still open.
Nary: I'd move we close the Public Hearing.
McCandless: Second.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Any discussion? I will entertain a motion.
Bird: Madam President?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve the request for a variance to permit splitting of a 12 acre
parcel on the southeast corner of a 40 acre parcel of ground in an I-L zone for Ron Van
Auker, located at 2170 West Franklin Road, the attorney to draw up the Findings of
Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision of Order.
McCandless: Second.
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September 17, 2002
Page 50 of 65
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve the request for variance.
Is there any discussion?
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I just want to put on the record that -- so that it's clear in the future, this -- we do
not grant these very easily. I think that Sanitary Services and Mr. Van Auker have got a
great solution for the City of Meridian and they are in dire need. This needs to get done
and there is valid reasons that's put both in the comments and on the record as to why
a variance is really the only option to them at this point and that it needs to be done and
I think the Sanitary Services will work with the neighbors to make sure that those issues
are taken care of, I don't think there are any concerns by any of us about that, but that
this is not something we would grant easily for any -- for just any situation, but one that
is really at its breaking point and needs to get accomplished and needs to get done and
accomplished very soon and that's the reason for it and it's not something we would
entertain lightly by anybody, even Sanitary Services, but they are in a situation that this
needs to happen.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Nary, for that for clarity. I think that was important to point
out, too. Okay. Any further discussion?
Siddoway: Madam Chairman?
De Weerd: Mr. Siddoway.
Siddoway: Just a point of clarification. Does the motion include staff comments?
Bird: Sure.
De Weerd: No. Sorry. The motion maker said yes. Second agrees.
Nary: Second agrees.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other discussion? Mr. Berg, roll-call vote.
Roll-call vote: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; DeWeerd, aye; Bird, aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 15: Water, Sewer and Trash Delinquencies:
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Thank you for joining us. And, Mr. Sedlacek, I thought
you came dressed appropriately. Okay. We will move onto Item No. 15, water and
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September 17, 2002
Page 51 of 65
sewer and trash delinquencies. This is to inform you in writing that if you so choose that
you have the right to a predetermination hearing at 7:30 p.m., Tuesday, September
17th, 2002, before the Mayor and City Council, to appear in person to be judged on the
facts and to defend the claim made by the city that your water, sewer, and trash bill is
delinquent. You may retain counsel. Your service will be discontinued on September
18th, 2002, and/or September 25th, 2002, unless payment is received in full. Is there
anyone present who wishes to contest his or her water, sewer, and trash bill
delinquency? Okay. Well, they are hereby informed that they may appeal -- oh, I don't
have to read that part.
Bird: It's there.
De Weerd: Okay. Even though no one's here. They are hereby informed that they may
appeal or have the decision of the city reviewed by the Fourth Judicial District Court
pursuant to Idaho state code. Even though they may appeal, their water will be shut off.
The amount of the turn-off list is $21,963.32. Okay. Council, I think I need a motion.
Bird: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we approve the delinquency turn-off dates of 9/18/02 and 9/25/02 for
the sum of $21,963.32.
Nary: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. We have got a motion to approve the shut-off for September 18th
and September 25th for the sum of $21,963.32. All those in favor say aye. All ayes.
Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 16: Discussion of Legal Services RFP Review:
De Weerd: Item No. 16, discussion of legal services RFP review. Mr. Nary, would you
like to start the discussion on that?
Nary: Yes, Madam President, we have been informed by Mr. Berg that we have
received three proposals for criminal services and three proposals for civil services. We
had discussed at our previous meeting about getting some input from the department
heads that use the legal services. What I would propose is that we provide a copy of
the legal services both for criminal and civil. Again, it may not have much impact to
some of the departments, but unless they'd like to see their overall flavor of both, but it
appears that the departments that have used the service predominately is the police
department, Planning and Zoning, Public Works, City Clerk's Office, and I would
suggest that also the finance department as well to review and provide us written
Meridian City Council Meeting
September 17, 2002
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comments that we offer to all the proposers an opportunity to present an in-person
presentation of their proposals within the next two weeks. And I guess the issue would
be whether or not to have it on a Tuesday. We have six presentations that I would
guess would take 15 or 20 minutes apiece, if there is questions or anything like that, it's
about two hours of time, two and a half hours of time. We general don't have a Council
meeting with that much free space in it, so we may have to have a special meeting to
have these proposals presented to us, but if we do it within a couple of weeks -- today is
the 17th, we could do it the week of September 30th, sometime during that week, that
would give us an opportunity to hear it, to have some opportunity to digest it, and maybe
then we could make a decision on our October 8th meeting as to what we want to do
and that would give us time between October and the end of October when the current
contract is set to expire. Anyway, that's the time table. I was thinking that we would
need to decide if we wanted to do it on Tuesday or a different night. We would ask for
written comments from the departments to be provided to us and the Mayor and that in
giving those to the departments, those proposals, we would make it very clear that
those proposals are confidential, they aren't to be released to the public and we give
them to the department director, we get them back from the department director, and
they are not to share that with even other members of their staff. There is information in
there that may be confidential or may be some proprietary interest in those proposals,
so that's what I would think is the way to get this done quickly.
Bird: Madam Chairman?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I agree. The time table is very good. I believe that we -- that we have left out one
department and I think that's human resources should get --
Nary: Oh. Sure.
Bird: -- should have a say in it. And I agree wholeheartedly with you, Bill, that -- and I
think we need to have it on not a Tuesday night. We need to have just a special night
they come in here, because some of the presentations, if they have been like before,
can be 30, 35 minutes, 45 minute presentation by the time questions are answered and
everything, so -- and you know how you lawyers are.
Nary: Yeah. I know it.
De Weerd: Okay. Is there anything further to discuss? I think that's very reasonable. I
would like to have those department heads all present there for the presentation, so
they can also lend comment and that scheduling, that would be open for that.
Bird: That isn't going to be a Public Hearing, is it? They make their presentation.
Nary: No.
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September 17, 2002
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De Weerd: No, but they can be present, too.
Bird: Well, we have written comment beforehand.
De Weerd: Well, written comment beforehand. But be here for the presentation to add
further comment. Is there any comments from staff on that? Mr. Worley?
Worley: Madam President, Council, Mr. Nary, I believe I heard you -- your stipulation
would be it would be restricted to just the department head. I would like to share that
with one member senior staff, just to get his input as we develop our proposal, and that
would be Captain Musser.
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: And I wasn't trying to be exclusive either. I mean, obviously, the same would
apply. I just -- there were concerns expressed and I think very legitimate concerns,
there may be information contained in these proposals that have some proprietary
interest of some sort and I just don't want to end up that it's passed around the office
with four or five people. I think we can certainly make that clear to all the departments
that there, obviously, may be some need from -- in the various departments to provide
input. I wasn't trying to exclude the fire department, chief. I don't know if there is a
need -- certainly if you're here the night of the proposals and something arises that
gives you some concern or some ability to input, you certainly can provide that as well.
Bowers: That would be perfect.
De Weerd: Yes. I think Kenny will be going through new negotiations this next year, so
you certainly would have a vested interest. Gary, do you have any comments?
Smith: No. I would be happy to participate, Madam President. Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. I know that wasn't on tape, but I'm sure he transcribed that; right?
McCandless: Madam President, when did we decide to have the --
De Weerd: Well, Mr. Nary suggested the week of September 30th. Was there a
specific date and time?
Nary: Madam President, I didn't have a particular date. The only reason I suggested
two weeks is because it's awfully short notice to give people a week's notice to come to
do that and that would give us an adequate time, but it doesn't matter to me whether it's
the 30th or --
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September 17, 2002
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Bird: How about October 2nd, on Wednesday? Is the building open, Will? Wednesday
is usually better. Wednesday is usually better than Mondays are. The school board --
De Weerd: Well, why don't we have Will go and check the calendar as to availability
that week and -- I guess one other thing is we would then ask Will to contact each of the
applicants or proposals and let them know, so they have a clear idea of a 20 minute
presentation. Mr. Berg?
Berg: Madam President, the dates that are open is Monday the 30th; Wednesday, the
2nd; Friday, the 4th; Monday, the 7th. Are you planning on doing all of them in one
night?
Bird: You bet.
Berg: Okay.
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Monday, the 30th is certainly fine. The other thing I guess I didn't say, I assumed
it was implied. I think all us and the Mayor certainly needs a copy of these proposals
prior to the day to review as well. I think that we indicated ten copies were to be
provided and we would make a copy if we needed to, so we would all have copies in
time to review them before the presentation. Twenty minutes probably is adequate. I
don't care if it's 30. It doesn't matter. You know, I think most people recognize that it's -
- brevity tends to be rewarded a lot of times, so if you can kind of get through it quicker,
it's a little bit easier to digest. But I don't care. I was -- I guess my perception is I wasn't
-- I wasn't perceiving that we would -- we may not be inclined to want to make a
decision that night after six proposals, we may not be inclined to do that, but it would
give us adequate time to then have a -- to make that decision on a next regularly
schedule meeting. So that would give us that level of flexibility if we didn't do it on this,
but if we did, we could. Either way would work. But I think 20 minutes is probably fine.
I don't care if we want to make it 30 -- I think it's fine either way.
De Weerd: And then to allow how much time for questions?
Nary: As much as we want to ask.
De Weerd: So you want to schedule them at what kind increments? If it's an hour per
presentation we would be there six hours.
Nary: I don't want that. If we started at 6:00 o'clock -- if we started at 6:00 o'clock and
try to schedule them every 45 minutes, then that would put us at what time?
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September 17, 2002
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De Weerd: Will we have necessarily -- we have six proposals, but does mean we have
six firms or do some people submit to both uses?
Berg: Madam President, couldn't answer that question. I have six envelopes that have
been addressed what bid proposal they -- is in that envelope. Some of them have
return addresses on, some of them do not.
De Weerd: Okay.
Berg: And I did not open them, they are sealed in my office and I didn't figure I was
going to do anything with them until we decided what our process would be -- procedure
was going to be. Obviously, I will be opening them and distributing them and notifying
the firms as to your procedure.
De Weerd: Okay. So we will meet, then, on Monday 30th, beginning at 6:00 p.m., 45
minute increments. If you can notify the people who submitted bids --
Siddoway: That would have you ending at 10:30. Forty-five minute increments with six
applicants would be from 6:00 to 10:30 p.m.
De Weerd: Potentially. Unless there is -- and if there is a case of someone that
submitted -- the same firm submitting for both, will they be given two 45 minute time
slots or --
Nary: Madam Referee?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Maybe another way to do this -- because I guess I'm trying to be fair to the
applicants, if I'm in this position, going at 6:00 o'clock on Monday night is a whole lot
better than going at a quarter to 10:00. It may not seem very interesting at a quarter to
10:00. So what -- another situation or way we could do this is we could do the criminal
on one night and the civil on another night and it would take five hours to do it all in one
shot, but if we take it in blocks, it would be easier to digest it and it would be fair to the
applicants so that it wouldn't -- because I really think there is a potential that it will take
that long, if we are talking four hours, that the person going last is at a disadvantage,
because it may seem a little old by then, so --
Bird: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Didn't we ask for sealed bids? Now what are they going to add to what we have
got and what we are going to be reading, other than personalities? They are going to
tell us what they will do, how much they are going to do, what the cost and everything is
like that. They are sealed bids. Why should they be any different than a contractor
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September 17, 2002
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that's -- five contractors sitting in here waiting to see who is going to get it. Why can't
they all come and if we -- if one takes 20 minutes, we go to another one. I mean they
are sealed bids; right?
Nary: True.
Bird: This bid -- what, other than personality and stuff, will they be -- that will have --
that will be judged? I mean they are given us the dollar and cents and what they will do;
right?
De Weerd: It gives them the opportunity to answer questions, but, Mr. Bird, you have
been through it before, so maybe you can tell us how --
Bird: We have had three applicants before at the same time, they brought them up
here, and within two hours we had it and they brought us a proposal and we didn't have
the advantage of getting to look it over beforehand, they brought them for us at that
time and we discussed it and talked with them and we was out of here.
Nary: Mr. Bird, I mean I don't disagree, it may be more simple and maybe it's making it
more complicated, but, you know, we are hiring a professional service and we are
intending to hire it for at least some length of time and I guess -- I hate to short-circuit
the process, because it isn't -- when you're hiring a service versus a contract that is just
going to build you a project. You are looking beyond just price, you are looking beyond
just the time and materials type of discussion, you are looking at personalities, you are
looking at the people that are going to provide that service and I'm just trying to be fair
to the applicants that would like to have the opportunity present to us who those people
are and what those people can do, that they have the opportunity to do that.
Bird: Yeah. And I don't disagree with that, getting the personality stuff, but basically -- I
hope you're not going to sit here and let them say, well, you know, I can do it for 20
dollars an hour cheaper now.
Nary: Right. Oh, I agree.
Bird: Okay? We are not going to allow that. So you're going to have a little personality.
I don't think it's going to take 45 minutes. And I mean I don't care if we do it in one or
two nights, it don't matter to me one way or the other. I'm like you, Bill, I'd much rather
get done at 8:00 or 8:30 and be done with it and only get three through, than to go until
10:30 or 11:00 o'clock at night and get all of them accomplished. So -- but I -- I don't
know why you have to put it on a time table and I don't see what's wrong with one firm
sitting in there while the other one is doing it.
Nary: I guess -- I guess the concern that was previously expressed, which I agree with,
is that there may be things that any of these proposers may want to do that they feel
makes them unique and more attractive in providing that service.
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September 17, 2002
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Bird: You don't think they have that written in their proposal?
Nary: And I'm sure you're right and I think -- but I guess I'm trying to find a way to be
fair to all the applicants that are proposing to do this in a way that they can present
whatever they'd like to present to us -- and, you're right, whatever their written proposal
is is what they are stuck with, but, you know, I guess if you're sitting in here with the
other people and, you know, somebody else is fairly close, it seems pretty reasonable
and they are going to say, you know what, that last group up there, they really liked that,
we can do that, too. Well, it's human nature to go, well, we kind of like you and if you
will do what they are going to do, we like what they propose, but we like you -- and that
just doesn't seem very fair.
Bird: That's absolutely stinks.
Nary: Yeah. And it doesn't seem very fair to -- you know, I want it to be fair to the
people that are proposing and I also don't want to put us -- so, anyway --
Bird: And that's fine. And I don't care how many days and nights it takes to get it
finished, let's just get her done.
Nary: On Monday and Wednesday, if we took a couple three hours each one of those
nights, I think we could hear it. Maybe it wouldn't take that long. That's fine.
De Weerd: Boy, some people have a life. Anything for the good of the city. And I
agree, I think that these are, in essence, professional contractors and it's also, in my
opinion, close to personnel and you won't invite all the applicants for a position to listen
in on someone else's interview. I think we need to respect the individuality of each
application. So -- and it does seem more reasonable to separate it out over two nights
and, I'm sorry, staff, that impacts you as much as it impacts us. Any strong feelings
over there?
Smith: Madam President, I just might mention on our process of selecting consulting
engineers, we initially review the proposals and depending upon how many proposals
we receive really depends upon how many we interview, but we try to cut it down to a
number not to exceed three consultants for interviews. We do their interviews
separately and they make presentations of their -- some of the things that they have
done, the projects that they have prepared, and we don't select them on the basis of
price, but that's the process that we go through and we do, as you mentioned, respect
their individual abilities, their personalities, and those do enter into it -- into the decision
and then we score the proposals that we receive, so -- to select those -- I guess the
short list.
De Weerd: Thank you, Gary.
Smith: Thank you.
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September 17, 2002
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De Weerd: Okay. Well, we will, then, go ahead and take criminal on Monday, then, and
Wednesday we can do the civil side and, Will, you will notify -- notify the people who
submitted and get copies out to people to rate and bring comments for those interviews.
Nichols: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Madam President, Members of the Council, one of the issues that Councilman
Nary raised last time was whether you want to have an independent attorney advise the
Council and Mayor on these selections or be present at the meeting or be available for
advice and I don't know if you have covered that -- that issue as far as that goes. I can
tell you our firm did not submit a proposal on the criminal prosecution side. If you want
me to be here for the criminal prosecution presentation, I could do that. We don't have
a proposal for that. But, you know, that's -- it's whatever your pleasure is as to how you
want to handle those. But I just raise those issues for you now.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Nichols. Mr. Nary.
Nary: I think we -- I thought we had kind of disposed of that at the last meeting and I
think Councilman Bird brought up that in his experience in the past they just had the
presentations, they didn't really concern themselves on having an independent attorney
participate or have to do that. So I think we are fine. I think Council can just make the
decision and that's up to Council. You've seen enough attorneys in the last nine months
sitting here, so --
De Weerd: I have sat between them.
Nichols: Well, Madam President, I would ask whether you want me here on the night
that the criminal is going to be presented or not. I mean I suppose I could come and
learn a few things about presentations before the civil one, but I'm just telling you I don't
have -- have a dog in the fight, so to speak, and I don't -- but I would be pleased to be
here if you want me or you can decide and tell me later.
Bird: Doesn't matter to me.
Nary: Doesn't matter to me if you are or if you choose not to be. I think -- I guess one
of the other things I hadn't brought up, but I know we are giving certain department
heads that use the services the right to comment. I don't care if the rest of the
departments want to come. I don't think it matters. If they want to come to see what
services, you know, we are going to be contracting with and what they may use at some
point -- so whether you want to be here, Mr. Nichols, is I think up to you, in my opinion.
And if the other department heads who haven't received the proposals ahead of time
would like to come, they are more than welcome to come.
De Weerd: Well, was that vague enough?
Meridian City Council Meeting
September 17, 2002
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Bird: It's up to him.
De Weerd: Mr. Berg.
Berg: Madam President, if we are through kind of discussing, can I take a recap of what
we need to do?
De Weerd: Yes.
Berg: So on Monday, September 30th, at 6:00 o'clock, we will notice for a special
meeting to review that RFP's for criminal legal services. I will notify each of those
proposals and give them 45-minute intervals? Is that what we decided? Every 45
minutes. I will tell the first one to be here at this time and the second one to be here at
this time, the third one to be at this time. It is an open meeting. There is nothing that
stops them from being here. But dealing with our professional services that we did the
space study for, they were very good about just being here for their time and not
listening to the other presentations. That's my experience with that, but that doesn't
mean they can't be. It's an open meeting. We have to deal with that, that we are a
legislative body. Then on Wednesday I do the same procedure for civil services.
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Berg: And then from that point we will determine what we want to do. I will send out
copies of each proposal to the department heads telling them that it's confidential,
cannot be duplicated, and want the documents returned after they are through
reviewing it.
Bird: Give them so many days to review it.
Berg: And say that you want a response by a certain date.
De Weerd: Yes.
Berg: Okay. Is that --
Nary: By the 27th.
Bird: And that's just the department heads that we named, too. Not everybody.
Berg: Does that sound like what you kind of want?
De Weerd: Yes.
Berg: Does that sound okay as far as procedural wise?
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September 17, 2002
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Bird: Yes.
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Yeah. And I think that the invitation maybe could make it clear to the proposers
that we are requesting that they not sit in on the other -- other presentations and that's
why they are scheduled for certain times. So it's clear to them that that's what -- we
don't want them to sit in here. You could argue about whether or not they have the right
to sit in here, but that certainly doesn't look very positive if you are going to get into that
discussion, but -- so they are aware that the intention is they each respect the other
person's privacy, that they present their presentation on their own.
Berg: There is no problem with me opening up the bids as they are and distributing
them? That's the concept that I thought was proposed.
Nichols: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: I think, too, if I heard it right, you only want them -- they need to know how long
a presentation maximum to prepare, so if it's 20 minutes or whatever the deal is, so that
they know not to go passed that, because, as Councilwoman de Weerd pointed out,
lawyers can be a little lengthy sometimes.
De Weerd: I don't think I said that.
Nichols: And then if you intend to make your decision that night, then you need to tell
the proposers that, too, so that if they want to stick around to see what your decision is,
that you say so. If you're going to make it on the following regular Council meeting, then
they can attend that meeting and get the answer. I think you need to address that
before Will sends out the notice.
De Weerd: Okay. Any comment on that?
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I would suggest that we then tell the proposers that we may make a decision that
night. There may be some reason that we decide not to, but I think Mr. Nichols is right,
to be fair to them, if they do want to stay, they need to know that. If we know at some
point we are not going to, then we'll tell them that. But if we are only doing three in a
night, we probably can make a decision on that. I think 20 minutes is probably
adequate. That gives us time for the presentation, that gives time for some questions,
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September 17, 2002
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and then gives time for a little bit of leeway in between the two -- or three, I guess. In
between each presentation. And then 20 minutes I think is plenty. And Mr. Bird said it,
you know, we have a written proposal, we are really just getting a little bit more of a
flavor of the individual proposal from them. So 20 minutes I think is plenty.
De Weerd: But if we say we are going to make a decision that night, the first firm that's
up has the more likelihood of staying through whole thing and listening to the others.
Berg: Is that okay? Is it okay to listen after you get through your presentation, than
listening to it prior to your presentation?
Bird: Like Mr. Nichols said, the last when -- after they made their presentation they
walked out into the foyer and --
Berg: Madam President, I could also address in the letter that we may make a decision
that night after all presentations at whatever hour it is. My understanding if I say we are
going to have -- we are asking for a 20 minute presentation, but I'm going to schedule
every 45 minutes --
Bird: Correct.
Berg: Correct? So we can say that we may make a decision at such and such an hour
after all the presentations are given.
De Weerd: And so would the notation, as Councilman Nary suggested, that the
preference would be to make their presentation and leave --
Berg: Professional courtesy thing?
De Weerd: Yes. Professional courtesy. Thank you. Okay. Is there any further
discussion on Item 16?
Item 17: Discussion of Ten Mile Meridian Fire Department Traffic Light:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 17, discussion of the Ten Mile Meridian Fire Department Traffic
Light. Cherie McCandless did ask that this be placed on the agenda. I do know we
have a member from ACHD here that could comment and also Chief Bowers. So,
Cherie, I will go ahead and turn that over to you.
McCandless: Okay. This won't take much time, because, number one, we need to put
that on the agenda when we meet with ACHD the next time and discuss it with them.
And it is my understanding that we are going to have to think about some 25 to 30
thousand dollars -- is that correct? To put in a temporary out there? I'm asking you. Do
you know?
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September 17, 2002
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De Weerd: If you can step up and I won't swear you in. You need to state your name
and address.
Brokaw: I'm Mike Brokaw, the administrative services with the Ada County Highway
District. I don't know what the exact estimate is on the temporary signal, but the dollar
amount does sound adequate, I believe. I know a full-blown signal costs much, much
more than that.
McCandless: Oh, yeah.
De Weerd: Now I guess my understanding, Cherie -- and I think I got the understanding
from the chief, is that they provided -- they provide the equipment and we pay for
installation; is that correct?
Brokaw: Actually, my understanding is that we will provide any salvage equipment that
we have and typically we will have some signal poles that we can draw on that we have
torn down from other installations. Any other equipment that we would have to put in
there would be just at the Highway District cost. So typically that could be some sort of
a controlling device that would trip the signal and make sure it's operational.
McCandless: Well, it was my understanding that there -- ACHD is awaiting Meridian
comments before they go into the design phase of this.
Brokaw: I believe that's correct. I talked with our traffic department before I came here
tonight and that was my understanding as well.
McCandless: And that's why we needed to put it on the agenda.
De Weerd: I think that Chief Bowers has some comments. He's had a chance to talk
with the staff and they have -- they had a few comments on this one versus Locust
Grove. Kenny, did you want to comment on that?
Bowers: Madam Chairman, City Council Members, I have discussed with my captains
out at Station Two and they are not in a real concern that we do need the light put in at
this time out there. Yes, it would be a safety factor, no doubt about it. We will, I believe,
if we would ever get the traffic numbers, probably would need one sooner on Locust
Grove. I'm sure it will have more traffic on it than Ten Mile. But then when the Ten Mile
overpass ever gets developed or anything like that or an off ramp, yes, that's going to
have to be widened, the roads will have to be widened through there and a light will
have to be put up at Ten Mile. But by the comment that Gary just gave me, that if Ada
county is able to find some surplus stuff that they have, that that will be fine putting it up
-- by putting it up for us. Now I don't know what would happen, then, when they widen
the road to five lanes or so, would we have to buy the traffic signals and stuff at that
time? We would have to find that out, Cherie.
McCandless: At that time we would have to put in a permanent installation, yes.
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September 17, 2002
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Bowers: And I didn't know if that would come all on us or if Ada County would pay for
part of that. So that's probably something we really need to check into, so we can
budget for the future.
McCandless: Yeah.
De Weerd: I don't know, Mr. Brokaw, if you know the answer to that. It's certainly
something to put on the joint meeting with the Commission.
Brokaw: Madam President, I'm not real certain as far as what sort of financial
arrangement, I guess, the Highway District would have at that point in time. I know that
there have been situations where we have gone in after the signal has been placed
many years later and widened the roadway. I don't believe that we required the fire
department or the city to pay for those again. But on a temporary installation it might be
a whole lot different.
De Weerd: Okay. If we can use salvage equipment and then ACHD asked us to cover
the cost of installing that, that those are the kind of cost questions that we would have.
So, Will, if you could note that for an item to be placed on the joint meeting that we
have and, as I understand it, that meeting is on October 7th. Okay. So is there any
further comment, Council?
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Is there anything else we could add to that meeting agenda?
De Weerd: Yes. I -- I don't know if we wanted to add Opticom on there. Did we find
anything else out about what Boise does on that?
Nary: Madam President, I did find out from Deputy Chief Rainey, who is the logistics
deputy chief for the fire department, and what he indicated to me was that the City of
Boise bought all of the Opitcoms -- I mean I think that was part of what the discussion
was and they did buy all of it to get them all where they wanted them done. ACHD was
able to assist in putting them up, but I think the city just purchased them and they have
put them up as the lights and signals went up, but all of that was just -- the city bought
it, so we were hoping maybe something not quite so expensive.
De Weerd: Well -- and maybe we can use them for planning future lights, that that is
parts of the requirement for sharing costs with the developers or however they figure
participation in light of signalization, intersections, participation that Opticom be
considered as one of those costs.
Bowers: Another question, Madam Chairman --
Meridian City Council Meeting
September 17, 2002
Page 64 of 65
De Weerd: Kenny.
Bowers: -- City Council. What kind of comments do we have to get together for Ada
County Highway District on this or just need to get it put on the agenda?
De Weerd: Just need to get it put on the agenda for the joint meeting.
Bowers: Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: We don't need anything in writing. Okay.
Nary: Madam President, the only thing else I was going to ask to put on the agenda
was the Highway District talked about traffic calming by Chateau Park.
Bird: What?
Nary: Traffic calming by Chateau Park. It's a 45 mile an hour roadway in front of the
park and it's predominately straight, except as you're coming from the east -- or from
the west going east there is a bend that you can't even see the park, you don't even
realize that you're going passed the park at 45 miles an hour. There is no crosswalk,
there is no sign, there is no notice, there is nothing, so --
De Weerd: The speed limit is 25.
Nary: Okay. The people drive 45, so --
De Weerd: That's an enforcement issue.
Nary: Right. And I have already mentioned that to the chief and he is working on our
end, but I think the Highway District needs to be involved in the discussion regarding
whether signage – whether there is a crosswalk, whether there is something else,
because there are kids crossing in that neighborhood that cross over to that park, it's a
pretty wide street, it is predominately straight. So it doesn't have to get a lot of speed
from people in that area.
Bird: It's only going to get worse.
De Weerd: It's not like I do not disagree with you, but we do have procedures for this
and as it is for the traffic safety committee.
Nary: You mentioned that -- to the chief that's part of it, but as part of it -- I think we
talked about lots of general things.
De Weerd: We are concerned about following procedures, so I was just asking.
Meridian City Council Meeting
September 17, 2002
Page 65 of 65
Nary: Okay.
Bird: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we adjourn.
Nary: Second.
De Weerd: All those in favor say aye?
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Meeting adjourned at -- I can't see the clock. 10:53. Thank you.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 10:53 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
APPROVED
___________________________ ________________________
ROBERT CORRIE, MAYOR WILL BERG, CITY CLERK