HomeMy WebLinkAbout2002 09-03 Pre
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting September 3, 2002
The Pre-Council Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:00
P.M. on Tuesday, September 3, 2002, by Mayor Robert Corrie.
Members Present: Robert Corrie, Cherie McCandless, Bill Nary, Tammy de
Weerd, and Keith Bird.
Others Present: Bill Nichols, Brad Watson, Ken Bowers, Mike Worley, Pauline
Skeggs, Will Berg, Gary Smith and Brad Hawkins–Clark.
Item 1. Roll-call Attendance:
X Tammy de Weerd X Bill Nary
X Cherie McCandless X Keith Bird
X Mayor Robert Corrie
Corrie: Tuesday September third at 6:00. Roll-Call attendance please.
Item 2. Adoption of the Agenda:
Corrie: First point on the Pre-Council is the adoption of the agenda. Council we
have five items on the Pre-Council agenda tonight, any additions or corrections?
Bird: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Bird
Bird: I move that we approve the agenda as noted.
Nary: Second.
Corrie: Motion been moved and second to approve the agenda as noted, any
further discussion?
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I would like to see that we add somewhere at discussion if there
would be time on the legal services RFP, discussion of the review committee.
Nary: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
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Nary: I think that’s an issue that we probably do need to – again its kind of time
permitting either this week or next week – to talk about how after we receive the
proposed bids for legal services for criminal and civil how we are going to put a
group together to help make a recommendation. It probably would be a good –
again its sort of time permitting on this one, if we can’t get to it this week we
should definitely do it next week. We can kind of get that process moving.
Corrie: Okay we will tentatively put it on as item number 6 or 5-B. If we get to
that, we will review it or we will do it then next week. Any other additions,
corrections, or relations? Okay, all those in favors say aye. Opposed no.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 3. Request for Relief From Outstanding Water Bill from Mud
Volleyball Tournament by the Epilepsy Foundation of Idaho:
Corrie: Number 3 is a request for relief from an outstanding water bill from mud
volleyball tournament by the Epilepsy Foundation of Idaho. Is Mr. Harding here?
Mr. Harding.
Harting: Mr. Mayor, Council Members. I appreciate you taking the time to have
me back. At one of the previous Council Meetings prior to our mud volleyball
tournament, I came to you all with a request to get donated water for our mud
volleyball tournament and we had a proposed amount of about a million gallons
of water. Which working with Mr. Smith was going to be about 1,200 dollars. We
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held the tournament on July 27 and we used about a half million gallons of
water. It’s substantially less than what we had projected and we got a bill for
422.82 dollars. We were told to come back to the Council and ask for relief from
that bill so you all would have a chance to put together a policy regarding
donating city goods and services. I’m here to ask for relief hoping you all have
that policy in place.
Corrie: Okay, as I recall we haven’t got a policy in place. We discussed it.
Council do you want to --
Nary: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I think Mr. Harting, I agree that is exactly what we have talked about at the
previous meeting was that we would consider that. I think in regards to other
issues we have looked at that and had our attorney assisted as well with the
Public Works director in sort of looking at what the law allows us to do and I think
the problem we ran into was I don’t think that we have the ability or the authority
to donate City services for anything. I don’t know that we really have the ability
to do that. I think we certainly have, we probably always have the ability not to
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seek collection of a debt, but I don’t think we really have a policy or a practice
that were at least of any a consensus agreement and in trying to do that in any
fair or equitable way for anybody. I guess I don’t know that we have any policy in
place. The only discussion we’ve had about this issue was that we don’t really
have the legal authority to donate the city services to anybody and that we don’t
really have any consensus that we are willing to simply just forgive debts that are
owed to the city without some other reason beyond just good will. I think that’s
the only real reason that we would be forgiving this debt owed by the Epilepsy
Foundation is some sort of good will gesture. I don’t think we really feel
comfortable in doing that, or at least I haven’t felt very comfortable, I guess I’m
not speaking for the rest of the Council and the Mayor.
Harting: With all do respect, I don’t believe we are asking this just out of good
will. I think what we do for the City of Meridian and Ada County is provide a
quality of service that’s not available anywhere else in the State. We benefit your
schools, we benefit your teachers, we benefit your nurses, and we benefit your
students and your parents. We do that by raising dollars to provide those
services. I don’t think we are doing that just as a feel good for the city, we are
doing that in term provide something for the city. In terms of the policy I’m not
sure how that works in terms of the legalities of it. I don’t now if there is
something that can be done, a similar arrangement that was worked out with the
Boys and Girls Club with the Police Station. I don’t know how that is real
different than what we are talking about here and your ability to do that when a
community organization gives back to your city. I would have a strong
disagreement that this is just a good will issue.
Nary: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Again and Mr. Harting I’m not saying the Epilepsy Foundation doesn’t do
something good, but it’s a general good and there’s nothing wrong with that. It is
different then renting a building to a non-profit organization. It is different then
leasing property for a public purpose like that. This is different, this is money
owed to the users of this water system. All the water system users pay for the
use of the system, we would simply really just be forgiving a debt that is owed.
Now there are other reasons that we do that and those generally are accounting
reasons, those are for other reasons, uncollectable debt. Things like that I’m
sure you would recognize. Here at least from my perspective I don’t know that
we can simply just do that. That we can do it just cause because everyone else,
there are a lot of people out there that do a lot of great things just like the
Epilepsy Foundation does they all have the same reason. That is the problem in
trying to create something that’s fair to all the groups that we just as a group
haven’t come up with anything that we felt comfortable with collectively to give
everybody the same ability to make the same request. We can deal with it
individually, like this and I guess like I said we haven’t come up with anything that
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we felt comfortable as a group to say these are the situations that we can apply
this type of rationale to forgive these kinds of debts that are owed to the city and
to the water users.
Corrie: Pat I think Mr. Nary is right. A building can be leased for whatever the
charge, in other words if you. Where did you do this, was it leased land or was
it?
Harting: It was on donated land. A landowner let us use it.
Corrie: Okay, you mentioned Boys and Girls Club. We do charge them a yearly
fee for that old building that they use and they have to remodel it to be able to
have a Boys and Girls Club which is somewhere in the 2 to 300,000 dollars.
They have to pay electricity and they have to pay the water and garbage. We
don’t give it to them. Much like Mr. Nary where do we say our citizens that have
to pay twice or do they not? Their money is in our hands and we have to use it
wisely but what if somebody that says we don’t want to use it that way, we want
to give it to the Red Cross. How much do we take back and give to the Red
Cross or to those others or can we do that? I don’t think that we can and it’s
going to be very difficult, so my feeling as much as Mr. Nary, the Epilepsy
Foundation is indeed great. But so are these others and they have to pay
whatever they use to the city because we don’t give it back. That’s kind of the
way I feel too and how do we do that, I don’t know the mechanism. Somebody
says okay your using, what is it 422 dollars of my tax money. We’ll that’s three
cents to me. I can take my three cents and not give it to them but give it to
another one. I don’t know how we would do that.
Harting: If I may the only thing I would say and I certainly appreciate and lord
knows I hope my City Council is doing the same thing with my tax dollars. I
guess what my one comment is, is that what we bring to this city. What we
actually provide to the city we do so at no charge. We do the work with the
school system at no charge to your teachers or your school district. We do work
with your citizens with no charge, we provide a great deal of service and we
serve hundreds of people through this area on both professional education and
on individual service delivery where there is no charge for those services. You
know we are in a position where if we go out and we pay, if we bill for all the
services we provide I can guarantee the City of Meridian would have paid as
many times over but we actually go out and do that at no charge, that’s part of
our mission. I understand the quandary that you all are in, but please realize that
what we are doing, we are not doing this for feel good we are not doing this
cheap because its not of any value. We are doing it because it’s important for
your children and your teachers and your nurses and your families have access
to these services and we don’t charge. We will go out to any one of your schools
at anytime and provide a training that we could bill 125 dollars an hour for but we
don’t charge a dime. That’s where I see the biggest difference is I don’t believe
your giving something for nothing. I believe we have provided an enormous
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dollar service to your city at no charge. I’m not looking for something for nothing.
I believe that we more then make up for this dollar figure that you consider
donating in the services that we provide to your city.
Bird: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I agree you guys do a great deal for the whole community. In the same
token we have a lot of non-profit organizations that run deals. I can name you
one right now that spends 50 to 60,000 a year in the City of Meridian alone. In all
the time they were raising their money at a certain location they paid water and
sewer just like everybody else did, a non-profit organization. There is numerous
of them out there. I don’t like to play with the taxpayer’s dollars. They’ve got a
right to expect usage of water, sewer the same as they have to pay out of
somebody else. I agree with the Mayor and Mr. Nary. I might be able to help
you get that paid by somebody but I don’t think the city should donate it.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I think Keith kind of some summarized a lot of my sentiments. This is
something we really struggle with because we know that there are many
charitable and non-profit organizations out there. We are sympathetic and want
to support all of them, we were just trying to find a way that we could create a
policy that would be fair and equitable to everyone and without placing the
burden on the shoulders of our ratepayers and that was impossible to find. It
was impossible to find a policy that across the board we could fairly say yes to
one and no to another and we couldn’t find it. It was impossible to find and there
are hundreds of wonderful worth while non-profit organizations out there that
fortunately do not charge money, that is how they get their 50123 status is
providing that service through charitable contributions from the private citizen and
corporations that allow those services to filter into our communities to serve the
community, and we rely on you. Our community relies on you and relies on
those statuses just like the organization that Mr. Bird has referenced and many of
us are involved with. We just could not find a policy that could support a
philosophy that would not place a burden on our rate payers, and essentially that
was what we were tasked to do and that’s what we asked staff maybe to be able
to come up with and we could just not find something that we could share
equably out there. As much as each one of us would of liked to, we just couldn’t
find that fine line.
Harting: Given the number that said they couldn’t find it, I guess it’s a (inaudible)
point at this point. Councilman Bird I would certainly take you up on that
opportunity to find somebody to help pay for it.
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Bird: What’s your phone number?
Harting: It’s 344-4340.
Bird: I think I can find somebody.
Corrie: Do you get money from the United Way?
Harting: We do. We actually were a two year funded program. With the
reduction in United Way dollars given last year we took a 15,000 dollar cut just in
the beginning of the year over what we were designated to get because of the
lack of funding. So, 422 dollars may not seem like a lot but boy for us it’s a lot of
money.
Nary: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: It’s a pretty small consolation I understand Mr. Harting. You know the
difference would be is if we were renting you some city property to use. We
would have the flexibility to decide what’s appropriate for a non-profit versus for a
for profit organization, like a lease property. Here we’re selling a commodity as
the municipal government, we sell the commodity of the water. It’s supported by
the users of the water system and it’s different when you’re selling it. There is
some issues in the Idaho Law on how much we can actually really consider in
just giving it away. That’s essentially what you’re asking us to do is give it away
and I just don’t think we have the legal authority to do that.
Harting: That’s okay I do understand the Council’s position. I appreciate the
opportunity to come ask and like I said Councilman Bird, I’m not shy about
asking. The worst you can do is tell me no.
De Weerd: Hey I appreciate that. If I had any attachments I’d offer you that too
but mine are just in the same position yours is. (Inaudible)
Bird: I think we can take care of it.
Harting: I appreciate it, thank you all very much.
Bird: I’ll let you know tomorrow.
Harting: Thank you.
Item 4. Carol Subdivision Sewer and Water – Brad Watson:
Corrie: Okay, Carol Subdivision and Water. Brad Watson.
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Watson: Thank you Mayor. I’m just going to pass something out real quick that I
finally got done.
Nary: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I thought we were going to have this next week?
Corrie: Have what?
Nary: This discussion, so we would have time to read this. Or did I just write it
down wrong?
De Weerd: You wrote it down wrong.
Watson: Mayor and Council Members. For the second week in a row I
apologize I got this done just today. We have been reviewing and brainstorming
trying to think up some different scenarios on these residents at Carol Sub. The
first two pages outline four annexation and connection scenarios, they range
from the most restrictive at Number 1 all the way down to Number 4, which is the
least restrictive. In addition to outlining these four options and because time is
an issue with me and getting the plans out to bid. The third and fourth pages are
a questionnaire that we propose to hand out to the residents when we go out to
locate their water and sewer services. I think maybe that will take some of the
time issue out of deciding this tonight. That way you can have some time to read
this over and think about it. In interim I will have somebody from our office out
contacting the property owners over the next couple weeks and hand out this
questionnaire, if it looks all right. The one thing I would like tonight is if either
now or if you want to send me an email sometime in the next couple days on this
questionnaire if there’s anything you would like to see added, deleted, changed
or otherwise I can incorporate that. I think if I send the guys out there and they
hand this to the property owner that may. I don’t know if it will relieve their fears
or not but at least we don’t have to have all the answers at that time.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: Brad I appreciate the options you’ve provide us and yeah maybe Mr.
Nary was visionary in the fact that this probably should now be scheduled next
week so we all have a chance to consider it and ask any further questions. Email
you those so we can have a good discussion on it next week. I would like to give
this some more thought and perhaps do that next week then.
Watson: Okay.
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Bird: I would agree to that.
Watson: Mr. Mayor
Corrie: Yes Brad.
Watson: If I could just respectfully ask I guess, if the questionnaire if you have
any comments if perhaps by the end of this week I could have those. I really
need to send people out next week. I’d really appreciate that.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I know we don’t need to make any formal motions in pre-council but I
think that Brad we can take these provide any feed back this next week and
make a decision next week, I don’t think that’s unreasonable.
Corrie: (Inaudible) this is a public hearing, I mean the public is invited but under
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the circumstances I think we could do that the 10. Does that seem reasonable
to everyone.
Bird: It seems reasonable but at the same token Brad wants to start with the
questionnaire. He wants to get out the first of next week and start doing that.
Isn’t it next week you want to start? Getting that questionnaire out to the
landowners.
Watson: Council member Bird, Mayor and Council. That would be great if I
could but if you would feel more comfortable I can wait till next Wednesday
morning.
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Bird: Okay we can do it the 10 then.
Corrie: You’re going to do it Wednesday the fourth then? The questionnaire?
What I would really like to see if you had enough time to get the questionnaires
out and get them back and then we could have the pre-council at that time.
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Would the 17 be more time for you to put everything together?
Watson: Mr. Mayor actually if we want to have a discussion with the results of
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this questionnaire it would probably be the 24 by the time I had anything
meaningful or any meaningful number of them back.
Corrie: It is up to Council on what they want to discuss.
Bird: Mr. Mayor.
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Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Brad as I understand it. Maybe I’m off base but you would like this
questionnaire that you want to go out to the homeowners with, kind of approved
by this week so you can start next week. Am I misunderstanding?
Watson: Councilman Bird. No you aren’t misunderstanding. The questionnaire
if you think it is a worthwhile enterprise to maybe gather some opinions out there
then I would like to have it available next week. The decision on what we are
actually going to do with all the residents out there, I think we with the
questionnaire we could put that off a little ways.
Bird: But you are right now wanting tonight wanting to know if this questionnaire
looks okay to us so you can proceed next week with this.
Watson: Councilman Bird not necessarily tonight but over the next week if there
were any comments that I –
De Weerd: If you have any issues.
Bird: That’s what I mean but he needs it by next week so he can get started. As
I understand.
Corrie: So we can give you the tenth and tell you to go ahead with it with any
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suggestions we have and then come back for discussion on the 24.
Watson: We can do it that way. Yes.
Corrie: Sound better?
Watson: That will work.
Corrie: Council?
Bird: That’s good for me.
Watson: Mr. Mayor if I may. Just an update on the project it goes out to bid or
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will open bid September 26. With an estimated construction start date the first
week of November.
Corrie: Well that sounds reasonable then.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
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De Weerd: I have a question here. We have two separate issues here right?
You have a questionnaire and you have a question as to looking at the different
scenarios as to annexation and or providing service. Those are the two different
-- and what I’m suggesting is that we have time to look at these provide you
feedback on both of those issues next week. As you get these questionnaires
out to the residents, which will ultimately, I would imagine, you will get phone
calls. You will be able to provide them a sense of the direction that the city is
leaning without committing until we get the results of the survey back. Is that?
Watson: Council member De Weerd. I think that yeah you are following me and
you’ve actually gone one step beyond. Yes I think that’s appropriate. Two
separate things. The questionnaire is just a toll in order to make the decision on
the second issue. Which is the policy on hookups.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Watson: Thank you.
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De Weerd: Both conversations on the 10.
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Corrie: And then come back on the 24.
De Weerd: Then come back after the survey and --
Corrie: -- exactly what I think we said but not as clear. This is going to be placed
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on the pre-council November the 10 for the approval of the survey and also how
we feel.
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McCandless: September 10 not November 10.
(Inaudible discussion amongst Council Members)
Corrie: Okay.
Item 5. Discussion of Proposed Dunbar Estates Subdivision and
Possible Area of Impact Change:
Corrie: Discussion of proposed Dunbar Estates Subdivision and possible area of
impact change. Looks like that’s just about going to take us up to 6:30 for the
executive session. Any ideas on what you want to do on that letter from Gary
and also on the letter from the developer?
Nary: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
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Nary: I know these area of impact changes have been batted around a couple
three different formats so far that we’ve had discussions about but it appears to
me that Mr. Groves or Mr. Pavelek needs to file an application. Seems like the
process that we’ve all gotten comfortable with is file an application, have your
hearing before the Planning and Zoning Commission they’ll forward a
recommendation. We have a hearing here and decide one way or the other.
This ones kind of interesting only because I – I guess the size of it the area, the
location there is some interesting issues both ways on whether to leave it the
way it is or allow it to go to Boise. I think we should just let the process run its
course. Just let it move out through that sort of third process we ended up with
eventually (inaudible). That seemed to make the most sense to me is just let it
go through the process and we’ll have a hearing and make a decision.
Corrie: Any other discussion?
De Weerd: No.
Corrie: Okay and that’s what we will do and have them do that Gary. They can
make the procedure the way they should. Okay.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor I move that we go into executive session per Idaho Code
67-2345 (1)(b).
Nary: Second.
Corrie: Motion made and second to go into Executive Session. Mr. Berg roll-call
vote please.
Roll-Call vote: De Weerd, aye; Nary, aye; McCandless, aye; Bird, aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
(Return)
Corrie: Okay.
Nary: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I move we leave Executive Session.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Any further discussion? All those in favor say aye.
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MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Corrie: No major decisions were made in the Executive Session. Now I will
move to adjourn this.
Nary: So moved.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: First made motion to adjourn the Pre-Council Meeting all those in favor
say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 7:20 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
APPROVED:
/ /
ROBERT D. CORRIE, MAYOR DATE
ATTESTED:
WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., CITY CLERK