HomeMy WebLinkAbout2002 09-10 Pre
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting September 10, 2002
The Pre-Council Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 5:30
p.m. on September 10, 2002, by Mayor Robert Corrie.
Members Present: Robert Corrie, Cherie McCandless, Bill Nary, Tammy de
Weerd, and Keith Bird.
Others Present: Bill Nichols, Brad Watson, Gary Smith, Ken Bowers, Mike
Worley, and Will Berg.
1. Roll-call Attendance:
X Tammy de Weerd X Bill Nary
X Cherie McCandless X Keith Bird
X Mayor Robert Corrie
Corrie: Okay it’s 5:32, I’m going to open the Pre-Council meeting of the Meridian
th
City Council on Tuesday September the 10 , 2002, at 5:30 p.m.. Council, we
have the Pre-Council Agenda in front of you. We’ll have the roll-call attendance
first and then we will have the adoption of the agenda. Mr. Clerk.
2. Adoption of the Agenda:
Corrie: Next item on the agenda is adoption of the agenda for the Pre-Council
meeting. Any additions or corrections on there?
Bird: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve the agenda as published.
Nary: Second.
Corrie: Motion has been made and second to approve the agenda as published.
Any further discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor of the motion say aye.
All in favor.
ALL AYES: Motion Carried
3. Carol Subdivision Sewer and Water – Brad Watson:
Corrie: The agenda number three is the Carol Subdivision Sewer and Water
Brad Watson.
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September 10, 2002
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Watson: Thank you Mr. Mayor and Council members. If I understood last weeks
meeting correctly I think we were just going to finalize the approval of this
questionnaire. I added a little bit to it, redrafted a couple parts and sent it to the
Clerks office last week to include in your packets. So I hope that you have it. I
did get one comment from Council member Nary on question four that it’s poorly
worded. Awkward I think was the word.
Nary: I think it’s just a typo probably.
Watson: Yeah it is. Gary and Bruce Freckleton and I met this afternoon on what
we would propose changing that to. Allowing individual lot-by-lot annexation
leads to the creation of non-annexed enclaves within the subdivision because
some lots will not choose to participate or choose to annex. Further, one
annexation application for the entire subdivision would require substantially lower
fees then if individual lots submitted applications. I think that second sentence
was the one that was pretty screwy.
Nary: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Brad I’m wondering if not trying to make it wordier which sometimes
makes it sometimes more difficult sometimes to understand. I’m thinking if I’m a
property owner. You telling me that there is the creation of these non-annexed
enclaves which I think most people probably won’t know what that means. Do
we need to have at least some census as to why would that matter. That might
impact their service or it might impact their ability to access other city services.
Or something, I don’t know what particular wording but something so that a
person doesn’t read it and go what do I care I don’t even know what that means
so what does it matter to me.
Watson: Council member Nary, Mayor and council members. I think you’re
probably right. I was thinking I explained that on the first page but now that I look
at it, I didn’t. So, yeah your correct I can certainly add another little two sentence
paragraph on that.
Nary: Yeah, I – just cause I think most of the time people I think are going to look
at the bottom line cost. How that impacts them. And then secondarily they
would want to look at why does it matter to me. If it’s a money issue which
probably will be the driving force for most people anyway, but that may be all
that’s necessary but they may also want to know why does it matter. What’s in it
for me if I go ahead and annex now versus later. Something about that would
probably be helpful. Other than that I mean I think there is a lot of very good
information, but I just thought a couple of those things would probably be helpful.
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September 10, 2002
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Watson: Okay. I’ll add probably two sentences just defining what an enclave is.
And the second sentence is adding the drawbacks to those. If that’s okay?
De Weerd: That would be great.
Corrie: Any other discussion? That was good. Okay. I guess under those
circumstances then as they say, “let’s roll.”
Watson: All right, thank you.
Corrie: Okay, thank you Brad.
4. Discussion of Sewer Service Hook-up and Payment Agreement
for Betty Lou Britton at 3680 W. Ustick Road
Corrie: Item number 4. is discussion of sewer service hook-up and payment
agreement for Betty Lou Britton at 3680 West Ustick Road. Gary.
Smith: Thank you Mr. Mayor, council members. Betty Lou Britton is here in the
audience this evening. Her residence is 3680 West Ustick Road. Presently in
the county, she is adjacent to annexed area to the east of her Charles Crane and
across the street is a subdivision that is a city sub. So she is contiguous to
existing city limits. Betty Lou has a septic tank drain field situation that has been
declared non-usable by Central District Health Department. And in fact they
have ordered to cease and desist use of that system, and she has done that.
She has, I understand Mr. Don Hart who is an excavator – has dug up her
connection between her septic tank and drain field and plugged it off and that
was after the demand of Central District Health. Her situation now is that she
needs to connect to city sewer. It’s kind of an emergency situation and we’ve
gone through the explanation with Betty Lou of the cost involved in this
connection and the requirement to annex to the City of Meridian. And she is
agreeable to the cost and she is agreeable to annexation process. Her concern
now is the financing of the cost to make the connection. And that is the reason
that she is here this evening and the reason that this item is on the agenda is to
discuss payment of the cost. The information that I have on the sewer and water
connection fee is, the total cost is $2,449 dollars. That of course is just the
assessment does not include the cost of actually installing the connection making
the connection. Which she would have to do with an excavator and I understand
that she has talked to Don Hart and has made arrangements for him to do this
work. I told Betty Lou that I wasn’t – didn’t have the authority to create some kind
of a payment process for her if that was possible. She did visit a local bank to
see if she could negotiate for funds and she was denied. I believe she presented
or has a letter from the bank that denies her application for financing. I don’t see
that I have a copy of it in my file but it’s my understanding that she does have it.
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I believe Bruce Freckleton has been talking to Betty Lou when I wasn’t available.
So, that’s the background on the situation. Her property is presently on an
individual or an on site well that she operates for her domestic water, I believe.
And so I guess there’s also an alternative here of not requiring water connection
at this time but its part of the annexation agreement such as what we did with
another resident out on South Locust Grove Road. We did allow him to connect
to the sewer because of a failed septic tank on a drain field system and stipulated
in the annexation agreement that he was to connect to water by a certain date.
So that would be another alternative that would reduce the cost as far as the
assessments go and the labor cost for her connection to the water by 869 dollars
off of that 2449. That 2449 does not include the cost of annexation, and I’m not
sure what those costs are. I think there is about six acres of property, is that right
Betty Lou? Approximately six acres? So that’s the reason that this is before you
this evening and like I said Betty Lou is here if you have any questions of her,
anything that you want to ask her she would be willing to answer I’m sure.
Corrie: Okay, thank you. Is there any questions at this time by Council for Gary?
Bird: I have none.
Nary: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I take it from what you’re saying Gary that this particular type of financial
hardship question hasn’t been dealt with previously.
Smith: No sir, no it hasn’t. I was discussing with Brad today and I said I really
hate to bring this sort of thing to the Council but we haven’t dealt with it
otherwise, in this large of number. I guess the one thing that we have not wanted
to do is become a bank for financing of these sorts things. It’s getting more and
more difficult for accounting to keep track of having to bill somebody for
payments on a project and so it’s a little bit of a first time situation. I don’t have a
problem with allowing the connection and you’ve given me the authority to do
that. It is an emergency situation, I don’t have a problem at all with allowing that
connection. She has agreed to the annexation process, which is part of the
stipulation of connecting to the city service. It’s just a financing issue that I had a
question about.
Corrie: Thank you.
Smith: Your welcome.
Corrie: Any other questions? Betty Lou.
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Britton: My name is Betty Lou Britton. I reside at 3680 West Ustick in Meridian
and we have a very emergency. We had to close off the septic tanks. Charles
Crane turned me into the environment and they said I was discharging water into
the ditch. It’s been there since 1970 and nobody’s bothered to say anything till
Charles woke up, and then he turned me into Nampa Meridian Irrigation also, but
besides that. I am willing to do this but I lost my husband with Alzheimer’s of fifty
years. I have a five-bedroom house, three bath on six and a half or 6.39 acres, a
big shop. It is up for sale and I owe $267,000 against it. I am working. I went to
work after 28 years. I have his social security and I have rented the basement
and one room upstairs that make my $3,000 payment a month. My payment for
my house is $2384.09 and my expenses for the rest, power and so forth is about
$600. So I have to make $3000 a month and like I say the house is up for sale.
But you have to find somebody with money before you can sell it. And I’m willing
to put in the city that I didn’t want to but the Central Health forced me to they will
not allow me to put a drain field in my own place. And the expense I figure, what
I figured is $640 for the City, $2449 for water and sewer and I have to install a
pump because there’s not enough fall and that will cost me about $1500 dollars.
Don will cost me about $1600 dollars, then I have an electrician to hook it up and
a plumber to a certified plumber to hook it on. So it will be somewhere between
six to ten thousand, and I don’t have it so I may have to go without bathrooms
and put a – one of those modular ones out over your sewer hole and use it. I
don’t know what to do. I already pumped out because my drain field was broke
is when it started, three months ago and they wouldn’t come see me but as soon
as he turned me in they were there that day. But I tried three months to get a
new drain field because when you irrigate your pasture it goes into the drain field,
the drain field goes back into the septic tank, the septic tank comes into my
basement shower. And I packed out 45 gallon buckets of feces. Any questions?
Corrie: Betty Lou you said there was about a six to ten thousand dollar cost to all
this what would you be able to pay a month. With all this money going out you
don’t have anything left.
Britton: Well I have another, I hope that I can rent the shop for $400. If I can rent
the shop for $400 and as soon as it’s sold then I’ll pay it off. Praying that it will
sell, but who knows if I get the money. But I can hold on to it for probably a year.
Nary: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Mrs. Britton I missed on the beginning part of what you said. How many
liens do you have on the property?
Britton: How many what?
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Nary: Liens. Do you have any liens?
Britton: Just my, I have my mortgage.
Nary: Besides your mortgage.
Britton: No.
Nary: No other liens.
Britton: I said it takes about, it’s $2384.09 and it takes me about $600 to run my,
to eat and power, telephone.
Nary: So you think at least you can afford right now to pay for the hook up cost,
having the actually work done to hook up to the sewer. Your only concern on the
expense is the other fees associated with it like the fees for annexation, the fees
for the actual connection fees. That’s the financial hardship situation.
Britton: Right.
Nary: You can pay for the material person to come out there and actually hook it
up to the sewer line.
Britton: You mean the plumber that has to hook it up?
Nary: Right.
Britton: I can pay some, I paid $640 to the city to annex.
Nary: Okay.
Britton: I’ve paid that.
Nary: You can pay the guy to dig the trench and hook the pipe up and all that.
Britton: No.
Nary: Okay.
Britton: Don will not get paid. He will allow me to pay on it. I think I don’t know.
Nary: But he’s going to go ahead and do it for you.
Britton: Yes.
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September 10, 2002
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Nary: So we are really only talking about the connection fee for the sewer and
the water. The $2400 dollars.
Britton: Well I have to have a pump installed in it and that pump is $400 and the
installation is $1500 for the electrician to come and put pipes in or wires and I
don’t know. Don is going to get me the pump but I have to have somebody that
knows how to put it in the sewer. He doesn’t. So I have to hire somebody that
knows that and the electrician don’t. So it has to be a plumber. But he could be
the same plumber that puts it in that hooks it up to your place. That has to be a
certified plumber I hear. And there is no bib on the, where I am at the end of the
sewer is right there its east of my house and that’s the end it goes east and then
down the ditch. So we have to put – there is no bib on it and then we have to put
in a platform.
Smith: Mayor and Council she’ll have to make a tap into the main line just
downstream of the manhole that comes across the street. Now if you’re required
to connect to the water then that’ll have to be tapped also in the street and
extended to the property in a meter pit installed with a meter and yolk and so
forth for her to connect her house to. But again in lieu of what we have done
before for another person south of town, that may help her as far as the expense
of connecting to the city if we could waive the water connection until a future date
to allow her to recover a little bit maybe. Again that’s just a suggestion.
Bird: Mr. Mayor.
Smith: But the sewer is the real issue right now, it’s the emergency situation.
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Gary if what you said was the $2449 is sewer and water and $300 and
something comes off that, I can’t recall $349 or something like that.
Smith: It would be $869 would come off, it would be $1580 for the sewer
assessment.
Bird: $1580 just for the sewer.
Smith: Yes sir.
Bird: And that’s basically the only thing that the city would be financing.
Smith: Yes.
Britton: Well how am I going to hook it up?
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Bird: We don’t.
Britton: You don’t know.
Bird: We don’t cover that.
Britton: I have no money to put a pump in my sewer to hook it in. It has to have
the pump in it because it doesn’t have enough fall to go into your sewer.
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Mrs. Britton I think all we can do is deal with the fees that you are going to
owe to us. I mean we can’t if we were to consider somehow in allowing this fee
to paid over time or as a lien on your property so at the point that you sold your
property to be able to close that we would have to be paid.
Britton: It would be paid for right.
Nary: But that’s all we can do. If you can’t afford to have it installed.
Britton: I can’t.
Nary: Then you probably can’t live there. There’s not much else we can do.
There’s nothing we can do about that. I mean all we can do is deal with the fees
that you would owe the city.
Britton: Well I can’t hook up then.
Nary: If we were to consider like I said in allowing that to be done on a
promissory note under a lien. So that the taxpayers would eventually get repaid
when you sold the property.
Britton: Oh yeah they’re going to get paid as soon as I sell the property.
Nary: We could probably do that but we couldn’t necessarily, we don’t install
that. So there’s nothing we can do about that. I mean if your telling us that you
can’t afford to install it. I‘m not sure that it matters what we do. Cause all we can
do is waive the fees. Not waive them but at least hold off on collecting them.
Britton: Yeah. Well I can’t install it so then I won’t go into the city.
Nichols: Madam President.
De Weerd: Mr. Nichols.
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Nichols: Madam President Members of the Council. Mrs. Britton have you
contacted your lender that has your first mortgage on your house to see if they
would increase the level of the loan to allow you to do this. Have you contacted
them?
Britton: I haven’t contacted them. I just got that loan and that’s all they would
give me we were trying to get ten thousand or thirty thousand at that time more to
do the sewer and they refused me. I couldn’t pay much more then three
thousand a month.
Nichols: Madam President. Mrs. Britton who is the lender? Is it a bank that you
have a loan with?
Britton: It’s Greenpoint.
Nichols: It’s a financial firm. So it’s a commercial mortgage company. Do they
understand what’s going to happen to their collateral if it doesn’t have sewer
service?
Britton: I don’t think so. I didn’t know.
Nichols: Just as a suggestion is that perhaps you take the letter from Central
District Health and you take the lists of costs and you send those to the loan
company and say here is where I’m at and this is what I’m able to do and now
the City Council might be able to tell you here’s what we are able to do on the
connection fees. And you’ve already paid the annexation fees. So the Council
could say here’s what we’re willing to do and they could give you a letter to that
affect which you could put with that. Then you could say to the mortgage
company right now this house that you had appraised and valued and so forth
now what’s it going to be if you can’t flush the toilet or send any water down the
kitchen sink and perhaps they would be willing to do something to get you where
you need to be to at least make the sewer connection. If that’s what the Council
chooses to do.
De Weerd: Mrs. Britton I think at this point you know as our attorney said we can
look at the fees that we have control over.
Britton: Yeah that’s not going to help me.
De Weerd: Unfortunately we can’t help you on your private property. That
private property is yours.
Britton: Central Health has ordered me to have the City hook me up because I
am within a thousand feet.
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September 10, 2002
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De Weerd: They’ve ordered you to do that improvement to your private property
but what we are saying is we can only affect our end of it.
Britton: Yeah, I understand you. Well I can’t hook up then. So I just as well get
my $640 back from going into the city. Cause I’m not going into the city if I can’t
have sewer. I’ll stay in the County.
Nary: Madam President.
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I think Mrs. Britton you are going to have to take some other steps first
before you do that. I think if you –
Britton: What?
Nary: Well you are either going to have to move out of your house.
Britton: No I’m not.
Nary: Or you are going to have to. Central District Health has already given you
a directive. You can’t live in it if it doesn’t have some way to use the sewer.
Britton: Oh I can pump the septic tank every two weeks.
Nary: Okay and is Central District Health going to allow you to live there in that
situation? Cause why are they already ordering you to hook up to the sewer?
Britton: Because my drain ditch went into the Nampa Meridian irrigation ditch.
Nary: Okay I guess.
Britton: Thirty years ago.
Nary: Okay and I thought the reason we were discussing it is because you have
to hook up to our sewer now.
Britton: I have to yes.
Nary: Okay.
Britton: But I can’t, I don’t have the money.
Nary: Okay but I don’t think you can simply withdrawal your application. What
we’re saying is you can hook up to our sewer and we can discuss whether or not
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September 10, 2002
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how we are going to get that collected from you at some point in the future but
you are still going to have to go do that. You’re still going to have to do it if
Central District Health requires you to do it. Okay otherwise they won’t let you
live there. That’s why Mr. Nichols talk to your mortgage company so that they
understand that the house that they have this mortgage on may not be habitable
by anybody unless it gets hooked up to the sewer and that’s why they may be
more inclined to assist you in helping getting that done. Cause if they simply
repossess the house they are going to have to do it anyway. So that’s what I
think. So being in from of us is probably premature until those other discussion
have been had.
Britton: When you don’t have a toilet or a shower or toilet you come the quickest
way you can.
Nary: Right and I think what we can certainly say that’s fine to go ahead and
hook up and deal with the payment of the fee at some other time. But the cost of
actually doing it is something that you’re going to have to work out with your
lender.
Britton: So you’re telling me to go ahead and call the Water Company and hook
up.
Nary: What I’m telling you, yes. I mean I don’t think we haven’t made a vote
ma’am but I certainly don’t think we have any objection having you hook up to the
sewer that’s what Mr. Smith said. That’s fine if you want to hook up to the water
later I don’t care. I mean I don’t think that matters to us that much. All we’re
asking is can you pay this later?
Britton: Yes I can pay it.
Nary: We haven’t voted on that but we can and decide if you can pay it at a later
time.
Britton: I can pay it.
Nary: Okay.
Britton: I didn’t say I couldn’t pay it. I said I don’t have it.
Nary: Right.
Britton: To do it and if you needed your money I needed a loan to get it hooked
up.
Nary: Okay.
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Bird: Madam President.
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Mrs. Britton what we can do is finance the $1580 we cannot do anything
with the hook up you got to get that. Mr. Nichols has the right idea. We give you
a letter and go to that mortgage company cause they are holding maximum not e
on that property and like Mr. Nary said if it’s not livable somebody’s going to have
to do it. But we can’t hook it up for you.
Britton: I understand that.
Bird: We can make a payment plan for the fees.
Britton: For the fees but that’s only a thousand two thousand and it’s going to
cost me ten.
Bird: We can’t finance that, cause we don’t do that. That isn’t part of our fees.
Britton: Well I understand that but if I don’t have the money I can’t even let you
finance your part of it.
Bird: Well that’s true.
Britton: Because why would I let you finance your part of it but I can’t pay Don
the plumber the electrician the pump and so forth.
Bird: I would go to my mortgage people like Mr. Nichols said and I would tell
them.
Britton: And you will write me a letter saying that this is.
Nary: What we will do is we can ask Mr. Smith to write a letter on behalf of the
city saying the city is willing to allow you to hook up to the service. The city is
willing to finance the fees in this fashion. You can make a promissory note, it’ll
be a lien on the property we can record that lien on your property we can do all of
that. We can give Mr. Smith the direction to prepare a letter to take to them.
How you get it done is up to you.
Britton: I understand that.
Nary: Because if you don’t get it done you may not be allowed to live there.
Because of the health concern.
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September 10, 2002
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Britton: Well since when is a field drain bad for the environment? How many
thousand years have we had field drains?
Nary: I understand but from what I guess what I keep hearing is that you can’t
use that anymore.
Britton: I can put a new one in only twenty-five foot. It would cost me the whole
sum of $2000.
Nary: Ma’am we’re going back in circles again I thought you already said they
denied you doing that.
Britton: That’s right.
Nary: So that’s not an issue anymore. The only issue is that you don’t have any
septic or sewer in your house currently.
Britton: Well yes I do have Mr. Nary. If I pump. I have two septic tanks and if
they fill I have to pump them. But I do have sewer in my house. But it isn’t
satisfactory that it is in the basement.
Nary: Well it sounds like you need to work that out with Mr. Smith and Central
District Health. Whether or not you can still live there.
Britton: I’ve tried that for three months.
Smith: Madam President and Council members. I’ll write a letter for Mrs. Britton
authorizing approval to connect and that we could make some kind of
arrangement for financing of the connection fee. For the sewer portion that the
connection could be placed as a condition on the annexation agreement. If that’s
agreeable to you and then she can take that letter along with any other
information that she has on this situation to her mortgage company as you
suggest and see if she can finance it through them so I will do that just as soon
as possible and I will call you Mrs. Britton and you can either come and get it or I
will mail it to you. However you’d like.
Britton: I’ll come and get it.
Smith: Okay.
Bird: Madam President.
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
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September 10, 2002
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Bird: Gary I got one and Mr. Nary. In your letter state that it will be the financing
will require a lien on the property and I’ll tell you her mortgage company will
probably come forward with the fees too.
Smith: I will do that thank you.
Nichols: Madam President.
De Weerd: Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Gary I’d also recommend that the letter indicate that a default after
notice in the payment terms would allow the city to terminate the sewer
connection. Where there is no connection fees and particularly where you don’t
have control over that water then. It will be important to be able to do that. I’m
sure Mrs. Britton will do exactly what she says. But we need to have that in
there.
De Weerd: We probably don’t need a motion I think the instruction of staff is
sufficient and Mrs. Britton I hope you do understand you know what’s being
suggested. We will get the letter to you and highly recommend that you
approach your lender and bring this information to them so hopefully they will
work with you on getting financing to do the necessary improvements. So. We
need you on the microphone.
Corrie: We can’t hear you and either can the tape.
Fields: My name is Cathy Fields and I presently rent the basement. I’ve been
there about a month and I guess my question is. If you put that statement in the
agreement that goes to the mortgage company regarding the default. Is that
basically telling the mortgage company if she doesn’t make the payments if she
doesn’t get the money to get the connection to the sewer then basically her
house could be repossessed or she could lose it or what does that mean
exactly?
Corrie: Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor members of the Council. All it simply says is the city
ordinarily connects the funds up front for the sewer connection. Then the person
pays the monthly fee. In this case the city is going to differ collection of that
connection fee for the sewer. They are going to differ requiring hooking up to city
water and in exchange for that there’s an agreement to pay which we’ll be
worked out by Mr. Smith reduced in writing but if she doesn’t make the payments
that are required it won’t mean that we are going to do anything with the
mortgage it just means the City has the right if it chooses to go in and shut off the
sewer. That’s what that means but it would be after notice so it wouldn’t have
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September 10, 2002
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anything to do with the mortgage and such. Just simply a reservation of the right
on behalf of the city since the city is not getting the connection fee up front to go
in and unconnect if you will.
Fields: Is there like a time frame that’s going to be put on that.
Nichols: I would suggest there is going to be at least a thirty day notice typed
revision if she misses a payment she doesn’t make the payment within thirty
days then that’s when the city will give her notice that that’s what they are going
to do. But there will be a noticed required.
Fields: Okay that answers my question, thank you.
Corrie: Thank you. Are we all set then, Betty Lou? As much as we can. Okay
Gary.
Smith: Thank you Mayor and Council.
Corrie: Okay thank you Council and thank you Madam President for while I was
out for taking the meeting over. So everybody in the Council’s (inaudible).
5. Discussion of Legal Services RFP’s
Corrie: Next is discussion of Legal Services RFP. Mr. Nary.
Nary: Yes Council. This is has been on there a couple of times and we haven’t
had an opportunity to discuss this in a meeting, butt he Legal Services RFP is
th
due next Monday the 16 I think at four o’clock. What we haven’t discussed in
this process is how are we going to make a selection and what I was going to
suggest to all of you is that we probably. One method that we could use is
forming a committee of some of the users within the city. Someone from Mr.
Smiths department, someone from the chiefs department, someone from
Planning and Zoning and a couple of others that I thought was probably finance
and maybe the City Clerk cause they are also a user of the legal services to at
least review the potential legal services cause there are criminal and civil and
that they then give us a recommendation of a selection. We aren’t obligated to
pick that one but it would at least give somebody some idea that we’ve gone
through it and have looked at it and tried to assess that. One of the things in that
process though that would probably be helpful is having some attorney assist in
helping that committee do that type of thing. There is a potential that my office
will be filing a proposal obviously Mr. Nichols office I think would have a conflict
in trying to provide that kind of assistance as well and Chief Worley has
suggested maybe we would contact ICRMP and see if there is someone at
ICRMP that could at least assist the committee, if they had questions that went
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beyond some routine basic kind of questions particular legal things cause I don’t
know what these proposals will entail to provide some service. Again there may
be some cost to that but we can certainly explore that this week with ICRMP if
you would like to do that. I don’t know if anybody else as a different suggestion
as to how we would go through these. I don’t know many there are going to be.
I don’t believe any have been turned in yet have they Mr. Berg? Okay. There
may be five there might be ten it may take a lot of time it may take substantial
amount of time. I don’t really know. But I didn’t know if anybody had some other
idea, but since they are due next week I thought we at least need to have some
idea of how we were going to sift through them to get a better idea of what’s
being proposed and how that seems to fit in what we do and having the users
within the city participate I think would be a good way to get some sense from
them as to how that may fit there needs anyway.
Corrie: Mr. Nary, may I ask a question? If they sit through, this committee that
you’re suggesting. They sit through a presentation by the applicants then we are
going to have to sit through it as well to understand or they’re going to have to
give it to us again. So you’re suggesting that they make two presentations one to
the committee and one to us and we make the decision.
Nary: And the committee maybe they’ll decide that they don’t necessarily want a
full-blown presentation. They may look at the proposals and decide that and
there may not be many. There may be two or three on each side of the ledger
here and it may not be that cumbersome to sift through, I don’t really know. But
yeah there is certainly it is a potential that any person proposing to provide
service may have to make a presentation to the committee. The committee then
narrowing that down to one or two choices and then having those folks come and
make a presentation to us as well.
Corrie: My only question is if the committee narrows it down to two maybe that’s
not the two that Council wants and you lost the other two. I’m not playing the
devils advocate here because last time I believe you were here they made the
presentation to the Council and the Council had the (inaudible) and whatever
they want. And they made that decision but to just kind of give you an idea of
what we did last year and what we had going here so.
Nary: And I guess my only intent was to partly involve – I mean obviously the
decision is also going to be ours. I was wanting, I thought it would be important
to involve our users internally and our departments are at least a good
assessment of what’s going to work for them. What the proposals that are being
offered how those are going to fit and how they do things and at least provide us
some input and inside us as to what they think is important. Again I recognize
that it is ultimately our decision at the end but that was just a way to do that. We
certainly can do that in that fashion. I would just like to be able to have at least
have the departments take a look at it as well.
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Bird: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I have no problem with the departments looking at it and giving
recommendations. But if we, I feel like we owe it to the applicant if they come
forward with a presentation that I as a Council want to hear all. What the
departments might recommend I might agree with but there also might be
something that I don’t agree with. And I would like to hear all of them and I don’t
think its going to be as if we are going to have fifty to sixty applicants in each
department to listen to. Two of I think it’s been three times that we’ve went
through this process since I’ve been on the Council they’ve come forward and
done it. I do like the idea of the departments as you stated getting a look at it.
Getting their ideas. They can certainly give us their ideas and we can certainly
weigh them. But I don’t want the departments to be narrowing it down to one or
two applicants.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: At the risk of interjecting in something that I’m obviously the subject of
but it maybe that you look at how many you have after you get them. And then
decide more fully what your process is going to be. If you only have two on each
side, or three on each side. You have just a few then perhaps the committee of
users simply reviews the proposals and meets with the principal for an informal
discussion or some sort of thing and they can make their comments on each of
the proposals or recommendation, however you wish to do that. And then you
can have a presentation. If on the other hand you have a huge number. You
know I don’t know what, six eight on each side then perhaps your, you may want
that ranked somehow by the users. And you are only going to look at the top
four or something like that. So it might be prudent to put this off until you see
how many proposals you actually receive for both of the two requests. The other
thing that I’d ask you to talk about is whether the proposals are going to be
treated as confidential until you know at what point. Because if, you know you
could have a proposer come up with some unique thing that no body else has
thought of and that might be cabbaged on to by other proposers in the
presentation. And so I think that since this is a competition as such, then I think
it’s the type of thing that could be kept sealed or confidential at least to a point
but I’d ask you to consider that issue. And that’s the kind of thing that where you
get into is Mr. Nary was talking about where I may have a conflict with regard to
what my advice might be on that on that point as to compared to somebody that’s
independent. But it’s certainly something that needs to be discussed so that if
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somebody does have some unique way of approaching things then there are four
or five me too’s laid to the table.
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I think that’s probably a fine suggestion, we can probably see how many
we have it may not be a lot it may be just as practical. I do think having our
departments that use the service at least review the written proposals and
provide us some comment. Maybe having a one time presentation probably is
cleaner they can still provide us some comment at that as well. Without a
problem and I agree with what Mr. Nichols is saying as well. I think that the
proposals do need to be at least confidential to a point. I’m not sure what that
point is. It’s certainly going to be somewhat glaring if a particular proposer
comes up with something that seems fairly unique and three or four other people
say well we’ll do that too. That’s certainly going to be of a concern. But again we
are still just trying to get the best service at the best price. So if everybody says
well we can do that if you want us to. I still think we still have to look at the end
of the day what’s the best for the city but I don’t have a problem in at least
keeping them confidential to a point but at some point we do need to decide of
the departments that use the service and they are going to be able to review it
and we can certainly remind them to keep it confidential until the proposals are
going to be brought forward. That shouldn’t be a problem I don’t think.
Bird: Mr. Mayor. On the confidentiality, I think it should be treated as a bid.
Whatever departments see these proposals it goes no farther because these
people are coming in with these and what they are, are bids. They are bids. And
the only time they should be open to the public is when they come before the City
Council for the final vote. Its just like coming to a bid opening, you throw your
envelope out there and Gary pulls it and opens it up and reads it.
(End of side one)
Bird: -- and that’s the way it should be. So I think our committee has got to be
very conscious of making sure these proposals are not sent around the corridor.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I would agree we need to wait and see how many respondents we
have and that yes we should deal with them like we do bids and applications for
employment. I think how we dealt with the police, the chief of police was done in
a manner where we did ratings. We could have our primary users of our
department the Police, Public Works, P and Z, and the City Clerks office rate we
can rate and if we want do something, if there is a large fill, if we want to do
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something of our top candidates as well as theirs. One would suspect that they
would be the same but if they’re not then you choose the top candidates to come
in and do the presentation at one time to the group that would be identified as
those selecting. Ultimately the decision is the Council and the Mayor’s but I think
the feedback from then staff is an absolute necessary step in that process and I
think that is one we can easily work through when we see the number of bids
brought before us. So if we could maybe look at this again at our next Pre-
Council just to look at the number of response we received and determine a
process that we want to adopt and just move forward form there. That would be
my suggestion.
Nary: Sounds good to me.
Corrie: Is that what you want that we can discuss it at the next Pre-Council
th
meeting that would be on the 17 and we can kind of think about that at that
point. Okay. I think we’ve got some good suggestions here, it’s going to be – it
can be done it’s going to take a little ingenuity on every body’s part on what’s
going on but I think it’s workable.
Corrie: Will.
Berg: Yes, Mr. Mayor members of Council. Kind of getting a synopsis of this
discussion, I presume that I will collect the bids and hold them until the procedure
is decided upon.
Corrie: Yes.
Berg: Thank you.
Corrie: Are they coming to you? Okay. The next Pre-Council meeting will have
discussion of legal service RFP again.
6. Discussion of Meridian Youth Baseball Proposal:
Corrie: Discussion of Meridian Youth Baseball Proposal. I assume that’s Mr.
Bird. Is that correct?
Bird: Well this is regarding the property that we got a couple people there. We
got Kathy and Trace from the baseball group and we got Doug back there from
the Lions Club. I think they got a proposal before us if they raise the money and
(inaudible) is the City going to buy all the ground at one time. So that’s what part
of it is. So Kathy did you want to state your name and.
Halick: I’m Kathy Halick. I’m here on behalf of Meridian Youth Baseball. We
wanted to talk about some issues in regards to the proposal of the baseball
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September 10, 2002
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complex. I have a lot of issues that we want covered so I’m going to go ahead
and hand this out. We realize that a lot of the issues won’t be answered tonight
but we are in the process right now of doing our proposals and getting it out for
our fundraisers and in doing that we would like to get some type of written
agreement with the Council before we go ahead and get our perspectives out.
Because there are some issues on here that are going to have to be answered
prior to people committing money to us. So I don’t know if you want to go
through these individually or if you want to take some time to discuss these or
how you want to handle it.
Bird: We can go through these real fast. I mean some of this stuff is – shouldn’t
take to long and until, like you said until we get an agreement in place which I
would hope that we will pattern after the Optimist Club Agreement with Boise
City. Which we got a gentleman sitting down there that can get good access to it
probably help to write it. That’s what I for see when we went into this partnership
is it be the same thing that the City would basically buy the ground and the Lions
Club and the baseball group would develop it. There would be stipulations in the
development the same as we have over at the optimist field. But we can
certainly go down this if its okay with the Mayor.
Corrie: Let’s do it.
Bird: Line item, line item. I think the number one is probably very important to
you guys cause I know you’re out trying to raise funds right now. I know how I
feel as a Council but I can’t speak for the rest of the Mayor and the Council but if
you guys come up with the funds I think we can come up with the funds to buy
the land myself that’s my personal opinion. That was your first question Kathy?
Halick: My first question is. We didn’t know if you were anticipating purchasing
all 29 acres.
Bird: Not right now we weren’t.
Halick: Okay so you were planning on doing it in phases. If we raise the entire
amount of money we are projecting we are going to need to build the whole
facility up front. Can we go ahead and do so even though you’re not prepared to
buy that land completely. Can we go into some type of an agreement with Borup
so that can still happen?
Corrie: You got an idea. I don’t think you can.
Bird: No you can’t. I wouldn’t go for it.
Corrie: I have a question that I need to ask first. Do we have a clearing or
understanding with Mr. Borup the price yet? Mr. Nichols.
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September 10, 2002
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Nichols: Mr. Mayor members of the Council. I think the price is set it’s not
reduced and signed in writing yet. It’s how you get to that price, is the issue.
Corrie: Right.
Nichols: Which is a long involved thing but I don’t think there is any question
about what Mr. Borup ultimately expects to receive or his company that he’s a
part of expects to receive for that parcel.
Corrie: So Keith can you kind of help me. Boise has that Optimist Park and you
were involved with that and how did they do that?
Bird: How did they do that?
Corrie: Yeah.
Bird: Mr. Nary probably -- what they did is they just bought the property and they
have since purchased another 26 acres.
Corrie: Oh, okay.
Bird: And the Optimist went out and they put stipulations on us and we went out
and raised 1.6 million dollars put it in and now they got the deal. We have to put
in all the amenities and everything and Boise tells us what we can. And this is
what I had planned and I think this is what Tom and I went before the baseball
group we talked to these people. I think that Tom and – had said at that meeting,
you know if you guys raise the money that we can find the money. There is
money there to purchase that all at one time. I’m like the Mayor there is no way
you can have an agreement with Borup and us too.
Leighton: No I think that Kathy may need to rephrase that. What we are asking
is do you guys think that Borup’s willing to. We don’t want to lease with Borup
cause we know you guys are going to buy the ground. We were wondering if the
City could work with Borup. I would think that you guys would.
Bird: You mean buy the whole ground.
Leighton: No, if you couldn’t buy the whole ground. In order the City would have
a – I mean you’re not going to be in a contract that you’re not going purchase the
ground over a certain amount of years. I think was the way it was originally set
up or something. And our point is, is it’s cheaper for us to build the whole facility
then it would be, a lot cheaper, then it would be to build it in phases. And plus
we are going to be at 1500 kids by the year 2005 and playing on three fields just
doesn’t cut it even with the 700 we have right now. We would enter into a lease
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September 10, 2002
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or an agreement with Borup but the City would and then we would already have
our agreement with you. Now whether that’s able to be done. We don’t know.
That’s just a question we wanted to ask.
Bird: I’d have to refer to the legal people on that Trace but I don’t think we could
but I don’t think, I think if you come forward with the money I think the Council
and I’m speaking for one, could figure out a way to purchase the ground to get a
purchase from Keith. And I don’t believe there is any deal with Keith that we
can’t purchase it outright at one time. There was no stipulations or anything. So.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I guess what we have done is purchase six acres this year. Is it?
Bird: Twelve, next year.
De Weerd: Twelve next year and then the remaining we were going to do in the
following budget year. I assume that they are asking, if they are successful in
raising all their money. Would we be able to escalate the purchase of that last
phase of parkland? We do have the money in our park impact fees. So it would
require a budget amendment. So I guess the question to Council is if they are
successful in raising 1.3 million to develop the whole park would we entertain
purchasing the final phase property of the park impact fees sooner then we had
anticipated. The money is there. I think we could justify a budget amendment if
we needed to do that but I’m sure they in pursuing their fundraising activities
would like to know if that is feasible and if so what the feeling of Council is. Is
that right?
Halick: That’s correct.
Corrie: Am I getting to far out of here with about $585,000 dollars from the city?
That includes the utilities and the property and normally it’s 15,000 acres. So
they get 435 then 150,000 for the power and that. So we are looking 585. Just
so the Council gets on the same filed here. Any questions?
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: So we would be looking at the property as well as number two listed
here. The utilities.
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
September 10, 2002
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Bird: The utilities. Tom had told them that he could get the 150 for the sewer,
water, power and irrigation.
De Weerd: Well that’s, I don’t know how much we have in park impact fees. I
think as far as the property went we could do that. I did not understand there
was a commitment to the utilities. We would have to work with our finance
director on what we do have in park impact fees, if we could do something like
that. You know I know Keith has mentioned an optimist football agreement. You
know I would love, I would imagine that the Lions and the Meridian Youth
Baseball and the City really should come to the table and look at these items that
we are all committing to get them in writing. Let the Council know full
expectations financially so we can be supportive of your efforts cause we
certainly would like to see this partnership succeed. You know I thought we were
talking just property here and that’s something that we can draw from park
impact fees but $150,000 dollars in addition to that. I don’t know if we even have
it but that’s something that we can look into but I would say we need to get to the
table as soon as possible especially if your starting your fundraising and really
nail down these rolls and commitments.
Halick: Absolutely. That’s what we’d like to accomplish.
De Weerd: That would be great.
Nary: I was just going to say that I would agree with Council member De Weerd.
I think we need to probably, our time is a little short tonight. In some of these
things I think are going to take more discussion then the time we have tonight to
do that. But we do need to have that discussion both with Meridian Youth
Baseball as well as Lions Club and the City. But I don’t know we have the time
to do it today, but we do need to have this discussion pretty quick.
Leighton: We’re a little bit under the gun because a lot these organizations that
donate to this. I got a verbal today and a quarter of a million dollar one. But they
all meet like between now and the middle of October for doing their budgeting
and that’s why we got on this meeting is to – we are kind of under the gun as far
as getting some kind of commitment and getting this stuff worked out. Because
we don’t want to go these people and have them give us 1.3 million dollars and
then all of a sudden say we couldn’t work out a deal with the City so here’s your
money back. Cause they can give it to – a lot of them are organizations that give
to youth activities all over the Treasure Valley and so they could be using that
money somewhere else, which we’d like to see. You know if we can’t come to an
agreement we definitely want to make this work and just so you know we are
kind of under a tighter timeline then.
Bird: Mr. Mayor.
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
September 10, 2002
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Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Let me ask you guys. Has the Lions, have you guys got a master plan yet?
Of the 29 acres?
Leighton: We had one drawn by LKB and then it has kind of changed a little bit
because of what some suggestions of Tom had made which were good
suggestions and basically its just a couple locations that moved. The only thing
were waiting on and I keep hounding Doug about is we need to know exactly
how much land they need and their trying to figure that out right now to know
that. But yes we do have a site plan, master plan.
Bird: Let’s, if it’s okay with the Council and Mayor. Why don’t we come back and
visit this next week first thing on the agenda and give it about 15, 20 minutes.
That will give us time to look through this. I’ll get the Optimist agreement
because I was at the meeting when Tom pledged this $150,000. I didn’t hear
him. I must have been talking with somebody. I’m like Tammy my agreement
was to my knowledge the City of Boise parks other than purchasing the ground
has not put one penny in that field down there.
Leighton: At that meeting Tom, you know he said that there was a $150,000
allocated for utilities at this site. Which I mean is not – we need all the help we
can get in doing it because I’m sure we’ll run over budget anyways. That whole
is just things we want to have ironed out before we keep proceeding on. We
formally haven’t sent out any of our perspectives yet. This particular person
today happens to be a friend of mine.
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Northwest State Baseball is another agreement that the Boise Parks
Department has done.
Leighton: Exactly.
Nary: That’s similar to what they are talking about here as well. But it’s the
same thing. That was Boise City Park around but they paid for all the
improvements to that section of the park. The baseball section. So I guess I was
thinking that’s what we were talking about, if that’s not what were talking about
that’s fine we probably just need to have that discussion about it. We’ve always
been committed to getting this park off the ground and getting this to happen. So
I think we’re certainly willing to try and do anything we reasonably can do to
make that happen.
Corrie: If it’s okay then we’ll just put you on the next Pre-Council first and we’ll
decide how much time we need before the seven o’clock meeting.
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September 10, 2002
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Leighton: Great. Thank you.
Bird: Thank you guys.
De Weerd: Thank you. Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Kenny can you hold on.
De Weerd: Just if the Lions and the Baseball group can get together and work
their space requirements out between now and then that would be great. Can
that happen Doug? Thank you.
Bowers: Mayor and City Council. I believe Cheri put it on the agenda. I did not.
So if she can hold it.
Corrie: Sheri do you want to hear it now or do you want to go into Executive
Session.
McCandless: I just assume wait and go into Executive Session now.
Corrie: Okay, we’ll hold on Kenny.
Bowers: That would be fine.
Corrie: Okay then I will entertain a motion to go into Executive Session.
McCandless: Second.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Okay motion made and seconded any comments. Yes.
De Weerd: I was just going to officially move that we go into Executive Session
per Idaho Code 67-2345 (1) (b) (c).
McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Okay, roll-call vote Mr. Berg.
Roll-call vote: De Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; Bird, aye. All
ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
September 10, 2002
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Corrie: All ayes.
(Executive Session)
(Council Returns)
Corrie: A motion to come out of Executive Session. All ayes motion carried. No
decisions were made at that Executive Session. I entertain a motion to close the
Pre-Council meeting.
Bird: So moved.
Nary: Second.
Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded to close the Pre-Council meeting.
Any further discussion? All in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 8:12 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
APPROVED:
/ /
ROBERT D. CORRIE, MAYOR DATE
ATTESTED:
WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., CITY CLERK