HomeMy WebLinkAbout2007 04-10
Meridian City Council Meetina
April 10, 2007
The regular meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:10 P.M.,
Tuesday, April 10, 2007, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, David Zaremba, Keith Bird, Charlie
Rountree and Joe Borton.
Others Present: Bill Nary, Will Berg, Anna Canning, Clint Dolsby, Bill Musser, Bill
Johnson, Doug Strong, and Dean Willis.
Item 1:
Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X David Zaremba
X Charlie Rountree
X
X Joe Borton
X Keith Bird
Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: Good evening. We'd like to welcome you to tonight's City Council meeting.
It is Tuesday, April 10th. It is ten minutes after 7:00. We appreciate you joining us here
tonight. We will start tonight's meeting with roll call attendance. Mr. Berg.
Item 2:
Pledge of Allegiance:
De Weerd: Item No.2 is the pledge of allegiance and since I forgot to ask anyone to
lead us in the pledge, I will just ask you to all rise and join us in the pledge of allegiance.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
Item 3:
Community Invocation by Bishop Andy Warren with the LOS Church,
Tully Park Ward:
De Weerd: Okay. Item No.3 is our Community Invocation. Tonight we will be led by
Bishop Andy Warren with the LDS Church, Tully Park Ward. If you will all join us in this
community invocation or take this as a moment of reflection. Bishop.
Warren: Our most righteous Father in Heaven, we express appreciation this evening,
Father, for the many privileges and opportunities we have as citizens of this great
nation. We are grateful for the freedoms and liberties that we enjoy. We are grateful for
the men and women who are serving us in the military. We would ask, thee, Father,
that thou would bless them with protection and strength and a continued strength to
help us maintain our freedoms. We are grateful for the great leaders of this nation. We
ask thee to bless them. We are also grateful for the leaders in this city. We ask thee to
bless us this evening that the items discussed might be discussed candidly and openly
and that we might be guided to the best decisions that will benefit this wonderful
community, that we might continue to enjoy the lifestyle and the wonderful amenities we
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April 1 0, 2007
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have in Meridian. We are grateful for everything that thou hast blessed us with. And we
say these things now in the name of our Savior Jesus Christ, amen.
Item 4:
Adoption of the Agenda:
De Weerd: Thank you, Bishop Warren. I would like to present you with a City of
Meridian pin and thank you for joining us. Okay. Item No.4 is adoption of the agenda.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: On our agenda on the Consent Agenda, Items 0 and P has been asked to be
moved to the regular agenda as 7-0 and 7-P. And on our regular agenda Items 13 and
14 have been requested to be continued to April 17th, 2007. And Items 15 and 16 has
been requested to be continued to May 1 st, 2007. With that I move we approve the
revised April 10th, '07, agenda.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to approve the adoption of the agenda
as noted. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 5:
Consent Agenda:
A. Approve Minutes of March 13,2007 City Council Regular Meeting:
B. Approve Minutes of March 13,2007 City Council Special Meeting:
C. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law and Order for
Approval: RZ 07-001 Request for a Rezone of 1.59 acres from an
R-4 to an R-8 zone for Oeklan Subdivision by Heritage
Development, LLC - east of the NEC of W. 4th Street and Maple
Street:
O. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law and Order for
Approval: PP 07-002 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 6
single-family building lots and 2 common lots on 1 .59 acres in a
proposed R-8 zone for Oeklan Subdivision by Heritage
Development, LLC - east of the NEC of W. 4th Street and Maple
Street:
E. Approve Budaet Amendment for Fire Oepartment for Grant
and Oonation to purchase a 911 Simulator:
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April 10, 2007
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F. Approve Streetlight Agreement for Paramount Subdivision No.
1 by Paramount Development, Inc.:
G. Approve Streetlight Agreement for Paramount Subdivision No.
~ by Paramount Development, Inc.:
H. Approve Beer, Wine and Liquor License Renewals:
Round Table Pizza
Wingers An American Diner
Harks Corner
Jack in the Box Quick Stuff
Top Shelf
Muggsy's
Fred Meyer #198
Blue Ribbon Artisans Bistro
Louie's Pizza & Italian Restaurant
Whitewater Pizza & Pasta
Walmart Supercenter #2862
Pier 49 Pizza -- 1551 W. Cherry Lane, Ste 102
3665 E. Overland Road
I. Agreement for Professional Services with DC Enaineerina for
Oesign and Coordination of Installation of Weather Station #2
and SCAOA integration:
J. Approve Sanitary Sewer and Water Main Easement for TRK
72K Addition by Ron W. Van Auker, Inc.:
K. Approve Water Main Easement No. 1 tor TRK 72K Addition by
Ron W. Van Auker, Inc.:
L. Approve Water Main Easement No. 2 for TRK 72K Addition by
Ron W. Van Auker, Inc.:
M. Approve Change Order No.3 for JC Constructors tor WWTP
Expansion Project for $232,220,53:
N. Approve Change Order No. 1 for the Water Division Building
Project with Ira-Mac for $105,074.00:
De Weerd: Item 5, Consent Agenda. Mr. Bird.
Bird: Madam Mayor, I move we approve the Consent Agenda as published, with the
exception of Item 0 and Item P being moved to the regular agenda as 7-0 and 7 -p and
for the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest on all papers.
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Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda with
the removal of the two items 0 and P. If there is no discussion, Mr. Berg, will you call
roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 6:
Oepartment Reports:
A. Parks Oepartment
1. Oiscussion of Tully Skate Park Rule Change:
De Weerd: Okay. Item NO.6 under Department Reports. We will start tonight's reports
with Doug Strong with the Parks Department.
Strong: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. I'm here tonight to request
that the Council approve my recommendation to change the Tully skate park rules to
allow bicycles to use the skate park. There has been much discussion of this proposal
over the last several months and the work of the Mayor's Youth Council regarding this
issue is to be particularly noted in their assistance in helping us review the rules and
what goes on at the park. Enforcement of existing rules not to allow bicycles has placed
an unreasonable burden on department staff, police department officers, with no
change in use patterns. The most reasonable solution seems to be for this issue to
allow bicycles on the skate park as that has been the use of the facility in spite of the
rule. All other posted rules would still apply to all users of the facility. This proposal is
supported by the parks and recreation commission at their March meeting, the Mayor's
Youth Council, the Meridian Police Department, and by department staff. So, I'm,
therefore, requesting Council approval to make the rule change and would be happy to
answer any questions.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Doug, has there been any real conflicts to date?
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Strong: Madam Mayor, Councilman Rountree, Members of the Council, we really -- the
primary issue of late -- and this comes from the Mayor's Youth Council survey at the
site, seems to be more with conflicts with older users of the skate park and young --
younger users that are learning to either skateboard or bicycle and it's not-- it's never
become a conflict, they just kind of get in each other's way and there is a little bit of
words exchanged, from what I understand. It's self managed, however, and there has
never been anything, at least to date, that's become a -- like any kind of battery thing or
anything like that.
Rountree: Thank you.
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree, I think a lot of it has been because the rules say the bikes
and scooters are not allowed, it has caused some conflicts, but when the Youth Council
went out a couple of different times and talked to some of the boarders and the bikers
out there, they said they get along pretty well, it's more of the rub with some of them
using that rule and also I think with the younger kids -- the concern of the kids that
utilize that park were that some of these kids are really young and parents are just
dropping them off and leaving the older kids there to baby-sit and that was more of the
concern.
Strong: That's correct.
Rountree: Thank you.
De Weerd: Any other questions? Okay. I would entertain a motion.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I move that we approve the rule change for Tully Skate Park.
De Weerd: Do I have a second?
Borton: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to approve the rules before you for
Tully Skate Park. Any discussion? Okay. Mr. Berg.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Berg: Madam Mayor, I think we approved the original rules with a resolution, so I would
presume that we would probably create one for the next meeting and have it adopted.
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April 10, 2007
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De Weerd: Okay.
Strong: That's correct. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor, it does occur to me there is some discussion -- there is
probably a sign or two that needs to be changed as well.
De Weerd: Yeah. The sign will need to be changed with some of these new things
listed on there. Is that correct, Mr. Strong?
Strong: Yes.
De Weerd: He nods yes. Dean, did you get that?
B. Public Works Oepartment
1. Oiscussion of Gemtone Subdivision No. 5 Irrigation
Surety Payment:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 6-8, Public Works Department.
Watson: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. This is an item that
normally would come before you, but we have no ordinance, no policy, no precedent in
which to make a decision, which involves disbursement of money that we have held in
surety to a private party. I believe you have the memo in front of you. A very quick
synopsis is that a commercial subdivision was platted in 2004, for one reason or
another they couldn't tile the ditches through that subdivision at the time. They posted a
cash surety with the city. They submitted a bid by a PE, special engineer, establishing
the amount at 41,000 dollars. A developer or builder of one of the lots is now at the
point where they are being required to pipe those ditches and the cost based on the
three bids they solicited is higher than the proportionate length of ditch through the
property, if that make any sense. I can go into a little more detail if you'd like, but, really,
the question boils down to do we proportionately reimburse this particular builder or
should we reimburse on a first come, first serve basis. The original amount deposited is
low, probably for three main reasons. Obviously, construction costs have escalated a
lot over the last years -- last couple years. It turns out, based on the work done by this
developer, that the pipe the original engineers used is not what the irrigation district
requires, nor was one of them the right size even. So, there was mistakes made at that
time. The builder and his representative are both here. Walt Morrow is the builder.
Gary Smith has actually been doing the leg work on this and provided the
documentation to me over the last couple of months. Whatever the case, we do need to
enter into an MOU that would come back before you for approval, but in order to draft
that we need to -- need some direction on how you want to approach this. With that I
will answer any questions or give more details if you'd like.
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De Weerd: Thank you, Brad. Council, any questions? Okay.
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Any questions of the builder? No.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I'd really like to hear from Gary. It's been a long time.
De Weerd: We are kind of partial to you, too, Gary.
Smith: Thank you. Madam Mayor, Council members, Mr. Attorney, Mr. Clerk. It's good
to see all of you.
De Weerd: If you could, please, state your name for the record.
Smith: I'm sorry. Gary Smith. 3917 Kootenai in Boise, Idaho.
De Weerd: You have been away too long.
Smith: Yes, ma'am. As Brad mentioned, this subdivision was approved by the City
Council in 2003 and subsequently recorded in 2004. Item No. 2 of the order of
conditional approval of final plat for this subdivision states -- and I'll just read it. The
final plat upon which there is contained a certification of signature of the city clerk and
city engineer verifying that the plat meets the city's requirements shall be signed only at
such time as the plat dimensions are approved by the city engineer and the city
engineer has verified that all off-site improvements are completed and/or appropriate
letter of credit or cash has been issued guaranteeing the completion off-site and
required on-site improvements. As Brad mentioned, for one reason or another, the
pipework was not done prior to the recording of the plat and the developer did submit a
cash bond that was accepted by the City of Meridian. The plat was signed off by the
city engineer and the city clerk and the developer continued on with his approval
process and gathering other signatures. The DMHR development is the owner of the
lot. They purchased the lot December 14th, 2004, and they purchased it for the intent
of developing a commercial building site. At that time they were told that there was
surety available to reimburse them for piping of the ditches. And there are two ditches
here. There is a ditch that's owned by Nampa~Meridian Irrigation District called the
Schneider Lateral and there is a ditch that's owned by Settler's Irrigation District called
the O'Brien Lateral. They are both live water ditches. The Schneider Lateral does pick
up some drainage from property to the south and east of Franklin Road, east of Eagle
Road. DMHR then proceeded to develop a site plan for the building and hired an
architect and site engineer. In late 2006 a memorandum of understanding was drafted
by Meridian City Public Works. We had been in conversation with Brad and decided
that there needed to be some kind of vehicle to outline how this was going to take place.
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April 10, 2007
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So, they drafted an MOU and subsequently submitted it to Mr. Walt Morrow, who is the
president of DMHR for signature. It was reviewed and there were a few changes that
were requested, sent back to Public Works, and those changes were made and
resubmitted to Walt and he subsequently signed it and sent it back to Public Works for
city signature. After that transaction, then, DMHR proceeded to develop the irrigation
pipeline engineering plans or have their consultant do that and to start the process of
bidding for construction of the pipeline. The engineered plans were developed and
submitted to Nampa-Meridian Irrigation District and Settler's Irrigation District and they
were approved. As Brad mentioned, bids were solicited and we had four bidders. The
bids ranged from 15,738 dollars to a high of 27,425 dollars. DMHR selected the low
bidder and we sent the bids -- a copy of the bids along with a copy of the final billing
from the piping contractor to Brad. At some point in time, either during the bidding
process or shortly thereafter, a revised MOU was received from Meridian Public Works
outlining that the reimbursement was now to be considered on a pro rata share, as far
as the length of pipe across this project compared to the total length of pipe that would
be required to be placed for the subdivision. DMHR reviewed this revised MOU and did
not subscribe to it and did not sign it, did not return it. They did move forward, though,
because of time schedule for constructing the building with the irrigation pipeline project.
Also looking at a springtime water in the ditch process, wanted to be sure they got
ahead of that. The Gemtone No. 5 development plans did not include any drawings for
the Schneider Lateral or the O'Brien Lateral and a license agreement that was required
through the Nampa-Meridian Irrigation District was not done by the developer either.
DMHR has paid all the costs to have a license agreement drafted and approved by
Nampa-Meridian Irrigation District, paid the costs to develop an engineered piping plan,
along with construction staking and we feel that these project costs should also have
been borne by the developer. So, the bottom line is in accordance with the intent of the
second condition in item number two of the conditional final plat approval by the
Council, DMHR Development requests reimbursement for the costs incurred to pipe
these two ditches as evidenced by documentation that's been submitted to Public
Works.
De Weerd: Gary, I think I forgot how complete your reports were.
Smith: Thank you.
De Weerd: Council, any questions for Gary?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: The completed work cost is how much?
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Smith: The bid -- the low bid was 15,000 something, but we had to add -- there was
some additional pipe that was required after the contractor got on the site and started
doing his work and I think -- I don't have a copy of that -- of that final bill, but it was
around 17 -- was it, Brad? 17,138. So, it was about 1,500 dollars beyond the bid price
that required some extra pipe to complete.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further questions for Mr. Smith? Thank you, Gary. Council, any
further information needed?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Question for Mr. Nary. Is it your sense that the ultimate responsibility or
liability, perhaps, lays on the developer to fund the completion of this construction and
the expense?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilmember Borton, this is a practice
that's ongoing and as Brad stated it's kind of an odd circumstance we haven't run
across before and that's why it's in front of you. Normally -- and Brad can correct me on
the technical detail if I get this incorrect -- normally, the developer would be the one
responsible to have done this as a condition of approval. We did allow -- and in past
plats allowed them to put this cash up as surety that the work would get completed at
some point in the future and allow the plat to go forward to final plat for signature.
Obviously, at the time the intent was -- is all that money that was estimated as to the
value would cover the entire cost of getting that done, otherwise, the developer would
have done it at the time. The problem is -- and as Brad said, the quandary is that this
portion of the piping should have been done and complete, so the quandary that we are,
which both methods -- when I discussed this with Public Works, seem both reasonable
and that's why it's here -- is certainly the intent of the approval and the granting of this
cash in lieu of doing the work by the developer, was to pay the entire cost. So,
proportionate share is one reasonable result. The other is is what's being requested by
the builder here is that all of their costs be reimbursed. They are the first in time to build
it, they are the ones -- the costs have changed, that's not their fault, but the original
developer should have done that, that's what was required, but once we allowed them
to post the cash, then, you know, we don't have another redress that I'm aware of to go
back to that original developer to make them do anything. So, that's why we are sort of
stuck in this particular predicament.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Borton: It sort of invites the question that I'm sort of stuck on is if you resolve this with a
proportional distribution of the 41,000 dollars, do you invite the individual property
owner, all five or six or however many of them, to, then, have an individual suit against
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April 10, 2007
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the developer versus, you know, first in time gets it covered and, then, the last guy who
gets shorted ~~ is the developer going to get sued once or six times?
De Weerd: That's a good attorney question.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, that's why you guys get the big money in
those chairs is to make that call. Councilmember Borton, I mean you're exactly right, I
can't tell you sitting here that -- that these particular other property owners have an
actual redress against the original developer, because that was what they were required
to do. They did what they were supposed to do, they posted the cash and the fact that
time got delayed -- you know, one of the quandaries that we wrestled with from the
staff's perspective is we don't know when, if any, of those other parcels will get
developed. I mean this -- even if you proportioned out this money, the money left still
may not -- may simply be less of a reimbursement in the future if you split it up by
footage or whatever, because the cost of the construction obviously gets more. It's a
practice that, obviously, we would have to re-think as a city if we were to continue to
allow that, because, obviously, this situation could come up again. But, you're right, I
mean certainly if all of those property owners think they have a redress, whether it's
against the city or the developer, that's all you're doing is inviting five people, instead of,
maybe, eventually only one. I don't know if Brad has more on the practice or anything
else, but --
Watson: Madam Mayor, I'll take that opportunity to interject something. It may seem
like this is an odd practice, but this -- plats are recorded all the time with surety posted.
They are usually letters of credit. In this particular case they discovered at least one of
these ditches, after Council had approved the plat, rather than even pretending that they
were going to post a letter of credit and get it done, they were up front and said we are
not getting this. Here is the cash for the next guy that comes along. So, it's not a
common practice, but at least they didn't have the charade of stringing us along for a
year and having us try to collect on a letter of credit. It was more of an up front we can't
do this right now, so I just wanted to clarify that we weren't going around the rules, it
was just they were forfeiting it right from the day one.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I am not clear what proportion of the whole need the current applicant is
completing. Does that question make sense?
Bird: Seventeen percent.
Zaremba: Thank you. I didn't see that. I skipped over it.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further information needed, Council? Okay. Staff is seeking
your direction.
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April 10, 2007
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Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Seeing no one speaking up, the way it sounds to me is the developer in this
case had a particular obligation to make sure the waterways were piped, not necessarily
an obligation to pay a certain sum of money and that surety was a means to a particular
end that they had to accomplish. So, as opposed to shorting each and every affected
property owner, it makes sense to me that -- that the individual applicant or affected
party in this particular case be reimbursed for this full expense and to the extent in the
future the amount of proceeds put forth by the developer to accomplish their required
goal is short, then, that particular property owner mayor may not have redress against
the developer for failing to satisfy one of their requirements. So, I think the
proportionality distribution makes everyone equally unhappy and unsatisfied. So, I think
I would be inclined to reimburse --I think it was around 17,000, the number I heard.
Bird: 17,138.
Borton: 17,138. To reimburse Walt Morrow Construction in full for this one and the
proceeds will be disbursed as we go forward as additional property owners become
affected.
Bird: Is that a motion?
Borton: It's just -- it's an idea for discussion. I know it's a rare circumstance, I just don't
know if other Councilmembers see it another way or think proportionality is a different
way to go.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would agree with Joe to the fact that really and truthfully -- and I hate to say this
because three of us sat on the Council that made this deal and we thought at that time,
with the final plat, that -- that 41,000 would enclose it and as the final plat, the
developer, he thought he was out of the clear and we all know what three -- three to four
years of construction costs and materials went up. So, I agree a hundred percent with
Councilman Borton that we reimburse DMHR, whatever the company is, Walt Morrow
Construction, for 17,138 dollars. And I will make that motion, if somebody will second it.
Rountree: I'll second that.
De Weerd: Okay. Discussion? Mr. Nary.
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April 10, 2007
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Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I was just going to add -- I guess your
discussion that probably at least we would avoid this with other property owners in the
future in this particular area, because they will be on notice as to what is available. You
know, I think what Mr. Morrow -- or Mr. Smith's testimony was is to their knowledge at
the time they made this bargain that was what was available to get this work completed,
whether it's on their property or the others. Choosing this path at least puts on notice to
every other developer of that property of what is available left to build that. So, they are
not going to at least likely come in front of you saying we got into this deal and bought
this property based on the fact that you were going to reimburse the full amount when
you know that all that's left is the remainder of this money. So, if that helps you in
making that deliberation, I think we can at least make sure that that's notice to folks as
they come and develop.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird.
Bird: I want to -- on the final plat what does it say, Brad? Does it say they will be -- they
will be covered or that we got 41,000 dollars sitting here to cover it? It says it will be
tiled; right?
Watson: Madam Mayor, Councilmember Bird, yes, every plat that ever comes before
you says the very same thing, but it allows for surety in every case.
Bird: Does it say that right on it?
Watson: Yes.
Bird: It does say that? And the amount?
Watson: No. No. That's an amount determined by the city engineer at the time of
signature. When you approve the final plat there is no way to determine what --
Bird: That's what I'm getting at.
Watson: Okay.
Bird: My motion stands without anything added to it.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further discussion? Mr. Berg.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
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April 10, 2007
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Rountree: Just one comment. It seems it's more about not proportionality, but fairness.
Agreements were entered into in this particular exchange of property and money and
features early on that there would be a surety for the cost and later on learned that the
surety was not sufficient to cover costs. Additionally, other items that were to be done
that weren't necessarily covered by the surety have been done by this particular
applicant's request here. So, I see no reason to deny their request for full compensation
and I agree with Attorney Nary to pass on the remainder to future property owners and I
guess Brad can chalk this one up to another lesson learned.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: My question would be I guess kind of a follow up to part of the earlier
discussion. Is there a way that we can assure that the next property owners or
purchases -- purchasers are notified that the -- that the pool is dwindling to repay them.
Is there any way to make sure they are alerted to that? I realize this a recorded meeting
and minutes are open to the public, but people may not be aware of that.
De Weerd: Mr. Watson?
Watson: Madam Mayor, Councilman Zaremba, maybe Council can help me out on this
one. It would seem that we could put together some document, after execution of this
agreement, and record it against those particular lots that are affected, so at least in a
title search it would pop up.
Nary: We can do that.
De Weerd: Thank you. Good answer. Okay. Any other discussion? Mr. Berg.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
C. Mayor's Office:
1. Oiscussion of Surplus Computers:
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Thank you, Brad. Mine won't be so long. Discussion of
surplus computers. We did get a call from AI Johns at the Senior Center. They are in
need of some computers, as they have done a lot of their updating and remodeling.
They called to see if we had any old ones that would be considered surplus. Our IT
director did do some research, talked with our finance department and our city attorney,
and we do have eight computers without software that if Council deems these surplus
property, we could donate these to the Senior Center. They would need to purchase
software to make them usable and they do know that. So, at this point, Council, I would
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April 10, 2007
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need your direction on if that's something that you would consider and, if so, we can
come back with a resolution next week.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I would definitely consider that.
De Weerd: Okay. Any questions on it? Our parks department has worked with them in
looking at some classes that they could offer and our seniors have expressed some
considerable interest in that as well.
Rountree: Great.
De Weerd: Okay. So, if it's okay, we will come back next week with a resolution. Any
problems?
Bird: If I can't get back on line they can have this one.
2. Appointment of Mayors Youth Advisory Council member
to the Parks and Recreations Commission:
De Weerd: Okay. Well, Item No.2 is appointment of the Mayor's Youth Advisory
Council member. The member that we had on there was -- is a senior and we are
getting close to graduation, so we discussed it at the Youth Council meeting last night.
They have made a recommendation for Sarah Steele to be the representative. She has
been attending all of the meetings with a couple of the other Youth Council members
and they felt she would be a good representative for the Youth Council. So, I bring that
to you to appoint to the parks and recreation commission as the Youth Council
representative.
Bird: Sarah Steele; right?
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve Sarah Steele as the youth representative to the parks and
recreation commission.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second. And this would be for a one year
term. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries. Oh, well, do I need roll call.
Okay.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
Meridian City Council
April 1 0, 2007
Page 15 of 73
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
O. Purchasing Department:
1. Approval of Bid Award of City Hall Packages 1 through
10 for a total of $5,836,369.35:
De Weerd: Thank you. Item 6-D is our Purchasing Department and -- oh, there you
are. Didn't see you over there. I was going to invite one of the directors to step in for
you.
Watts: Good evening, Madam Mayor and Council members. We are coming before
you tonight to get approval to award the ten bid packages for phase two of The New
City Hall Project and authorization to enter into the associated contracts with those and
the purchase department has invited Wes Bettis of Petra to come and give you a
presentation on the results.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you, Keith.
Bettis: Good evening, Madam Mayor, distinguished Councilmen and staff. For the
record, my is Wesley Bettis, Petra Incorporated, and I'm pleased to say at 1097 North
Rosario Street of Meridian. Officially on Saturday. On April 3rd --
De Weerd: We can't wait until it's our building.
Bettis: This is a big step.
De Weerd: First step.
Bettis: One week ago on April 3rd at 2:00 p.m. bids were received and closed at that
time at the city clerk's office for phase two, which is the whole shell and core for the
New City Hall building. Twenty-five bids were received. They were logged in. We,
then, had a public bid opening in accordance with Idaho Public Works contractors'
requirements and statutes. The 25 bids covered the ten bid packages in question and
on the copy of the document, the letter you have in front of you, we have those
recapped for you, with the qualified low bids. All bids were reviewed for being in
compliance with their Public Works contractor license and for their surety being in place,
again, in accordance with Public Works statutes. There were two bids that were found
in error. One was a site work bid, but it was not a low bid. He was bidding outside his
allowed value per his license. And the second bid was the low elevator bid by 1,294
dollars, but it did not meet the specifications as published, was reviewed with the
architect of record, and found to not be valid. Based on this information we present
these bids to you and ask that you direct the Purchasing Department to enter into
negotiations and issuance of contracts for this work. Any questions?
Meridian City Council
April 1 0, 2007
Page 16 of 73
De Weerd: Thank you, Wes. Any questions from Council? Okay. Thank you. Council,
I would need a motion. We have in front of you a recommendation to approve award of
the ten bid packages presented.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird.
Bird: I will make a motion that we accept this, but it's going to take me a minute,
because I think, seeing how these are actually not subcontractors, they are general
contractors, I need to read each -- each bid off, so if you guys will bear with me I'll do
that. I move that we accept the bids for the City Hall project. Number one, which is site
work, MJ Backhoe and Excavation, for 610,314 dollars. Bid package number two is
concrete, Sidewalks, LLC, $655,595.35. Item number three, bid package three is the
masonry. TMC, Incorporated, 1,584,760 dollars. Bid item four, the steel fabrication
erection. Rule Steel Tanks, Incorporated, 1,847,000 dollars. Item number five -- bid
package five was not used. Bid package six is the exterior doors, frames, and
hardware. Architectural Building Systems, Incorporated, 7,820 dollars. Bid package
seven is exterior framing, drywall, and insulation. American Wall Cover, Incorporated,
363,287 dollars. Item number eight, aluminum store fronts, curtain wall, and blazing,
Custom Glass, Incorporated, 295,321 dollars. Item number nine is roofing, Western
Roofing Company, Incorporated, for 192,990 dollars. Bid package ten is elevators,
Schindler Elevator Corp, for 222,100 dollars. And bid package number 11 is moisture
protection and water proofing with Sealco for 67,182 dollars. For a grand total of
$5,836,369.35. I move that we approve that.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Mr. Berg.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 7:
Items Moved from Consent Agenda:
O. Approve SWAC Recommendation for funding of Playground
Equipment purchase of $6,038.00 for Bedford Place
Homeowners Association:
P. Approve SWAC Recommendation for funding of Bench
purchases of $1,119.00 for The Vineyards Homeowners
Association:
De Weerd: Thank you. Item 7 we have two items removed from Consent Agenda, but I
will entertain those Item as 0 and P. Mr. Nary.
Meridian City Council
April 1 0, 2007
Page 17 of 73
Nary: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. I had asked to have these
removed to give you a little additional explanation. The solid waste advisory committee
had recommended approval of both of these expenditures out of the solid waste
recycling funds. As you recall annually we have a budged amount in each year's city
budget that is paid for and -- paid for by the solid waste recycling funds by SSC. All of
the funds from the solid waste recycling program in the city go into this fund. We
receive requests from various community groups for a variety of things, picnic tables,
benches, bleachers, play equipment and the like. These two requests were a little
different than some that we have had, at least in my time period on the committee, and
that's why I wanted to bring them to your attention. Both of them are from homeowners
associations. One's for 6,038 dollars for Bedford Place homeowners association for
playground equipment and the other is for a park benches for the Vineyards
homeowners association for 1,119 dollars. The discussion by the committee was -- was
trying to balance the needs of the fact that most of the prior requests we have had, the
policies that we have had in place, is that the -- the request has to be for a project that's
within the city limits, that's going to benefit all city residents, that's available for use for
all city residents, and most of them in the past have been either in our public parks or on
school properties and this one was unique in the fact that it was a homeowners
association and these were private homeowner parks. The committee's discussion
went from the fact that, of course, all of the people that live in these homes -- or live in
these subdivisions also are taxpayers, they are also part of the recycling program as
well, and we asked both of these groups that requested it that one of our requirements
from the committee has been that each of these purchases has to have a sign
acknowledging where the funding came from. This is a 50 percent match. So, 50
percent of the cost is borne by the applicant and the other 50 percent by this request.
But we require that a sign be placed on the equipment or near the equipment or
adjacent to it, that indicates that the funds came from this recycling program. Part of it,
obviously, is used to advertise the program exists and the benefits it provides the
community. In these two requests the committee made a further recommendation to
both the homeowners associations and that it was accepted that it also acknowledged
on the sign that those -- the uses of those products, the park benches, and the
playground equipment, were available for all citizens of Meridian to use. So, even
though, maybe, in their private homeowners park that that particular equipment would
be available at all times for citizens to use without concern about the fact that this was
their association park. Both of those homeowners associations agreed to that, they
changed the sign language to reflect that, and so the committee did approve it. I
wanted to point that out, because that was a fairly unique circumstance and I wanted
you to be aware of it before -- if you wanted to make that approval, again, the matter's
before you. If you have other questions, I, hopefully, can answer them for you or if
you'd like us to consider it further or not approve it tonight, that's certainly within your
discretion.
De Weerd: Council, any questions for Mr. Nary?
Bird: I have none.
Meridian City Council
April 10, 2007
Page 18 of 73
Rountree: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay.
Bird: Madam Mayor, I do have a statement. As long as they meet the -- as long as they
meet the criteria -- and it sounds like they do -- I don't know why it would make any
difference whether it's a homeowners association or a park or a school or anything else.
I think it's great that they want to do that, myself.
De Weerd: Okay.
Rountree: And as Bill stated, Madam Mayor, I don't know that there was specifically a
policy or a criteria that indicated that it needed to be in an entirely public place, but it
was the committee's recommendation that all public be able to access these
improvements and they agreed to it and the committee supports it.
De Weerd: Appreciate that. And thank you for the report. We will need a motion to
accept the recommendation from the Sanitary Waste Advisory Committee.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve the SWAC recommendations of funding for Bedford Place
homeowners association for 6,038 dollars and for the Vineyards homeowners
association for 1,119 dollars.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Mr. Berg.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Okay. As we move into the Public Hearing section of our agenda, I do want
to make note, if anyone is here for Items 13 or 14, or 15 or 16, they have been
requested to continue these two applications. I apologize if you have waited all this time
to find out that you -- these items will be continued. Again, Items 13 and 14 have been
requested to continue to April 17th. And Item 15 and 16 to May 1 st.
Item 8:
Public Hearing: Proposed New Sewer Pretreatment Ordinance:
De Weerd: Okay. I will go ahead and open the Public Hearing on the proposed new
sewer pretreatment ordinance and Brad to present it.
Meridian City Council
April 1 0, 2007
Page 19 of 73
Watson: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Actually, I'm pleased to
introduce our pretreatment -- wastewater pretreatment manager, Steve Maneck. He's
here tonight, who's been involved in the rewrite of this ordinance and dealing with his
customers in this field and I'll let him just give you a couple high points on what we are
proposing here.
De Weerd: Good evening. I saw you tonight and I thought are we getting that award
this evening, so --
Maneck: Good evening, Madam Mayor and Council. My name is -- good evening,
Madam Mayor and Council. My name is Steve Maneck, I'm the Pretreatment Program
Manager, and what you have tonight is a new city ordinance -- actually, it's a revision to
the existing ordinance. Part of my role is to insure that pretreatment program meets the
EPA guidance criteria and this ordinance meets that. What I have done is work with the
EPA Region 10 coordinator and we designed the ordinance to meet the changes, since
the last one, the existing ordinance, I believe, is from 2001. Since that time we have
had changes mandated by the EPA, two city ordinances, so this includes those
ordinances. In addition, there is a local limit study that's been conducted and approved
by the EPA that's in the existing ordinance. We have contacted our business
community. We have approximately 300 facilities that we help keep in compliance and
my office has sent out 250 letters to those businesses explaining changes to the city
ordinance, specifically the local limits that will be changing. This local limit study is an
engineering study that was conducted at the treatment plant for loadings with the
pollutants as designated by the EPA and so that's included in the ordinance. We have
communicated to the public via newspapers and I received approximately four phone
calls from businesses with general questions of how does this exactly impact the type of
business that I have. So, I believe we have met all the criteria required to approve a
new city ordinance. I don't believe that there is any concerns from the business
community with the changes that we have made. Any questions?
De Weerd: Council, any questions? Okay. Thank you.
Maneck: Thank you.
De Weerd: This is a Public Hearing. Is there anyone who would like to provide
testimony on this item? Thank you. Brad, do you have anything you would like to add?
Watson: Madam Mayor, Councilmembers, no, I don't. Just want to thank Steve for all
his hard work and the attorney's office who had to pour over pages upon pages of
fascinating text.
Nary: This is one we would want to read aloud.
De Weerd: We will save that for Mr. Berg. Okay. Council, if you don't have any
questions for staff, Mr. Nary, would you, please, outline the next step.
Meridian City Council
April 1 O. 2007
Page 20 of 73
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the Public Hearing process tonight is
sufficient for approval. What I'd ask is that we set it over for next week for final
approval. We need to insert some language indicating we have waived the reading
rules, so it's clear that we have done that. We are allowed to do that and, then, we can
get it published and get it implemented before the end of the month, which is what I
think Public Works' desire was. So, if direction is that you don't have anything else to
add to the ordinance or to amend, if you simply direct that we put it on next week for
approval, we will make all the appropriate changes and put it on.
De Weerd: Okay. And it is appropriate to close the Public Hearing at this point?
Nary: Yes.
De Weerd: Okay.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we close the Public Hearing on Item NO.8.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Rountree: I move that we set this item over until April 17th, 2007, for reading and
approval.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to consider this at next week's
meeting. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 9:
Continued Public Hearing from March 27, 2007: AZ 06-059 Request
for Annexation and Zoning of 224.26 acres from RR to R-2, R-4 and R-8
zones for Blackrock Castle Greens Subdivision by Providence
Development - west of S. Eagle Road and south of Amity Road:
Item 10:
Continued Public Hearing from March 27, 2007: PP 06-059 Request
for Preliminary Plat approval of 644 residential lots and 31 common lots on
224.26 acres in the proposed R-2, R-4 and R-8 zones for Blackrock
Meridian City Council
April 10, 2007
Page 21 of 73
Castle Greens Subdivision by Providence Development - west of S.
Eagle Road and south of Amity Road:
De Weerd: Okay. Items 9 and 10 are a continued Public Hearing from March 27th on
AZ 06-059 and PP 06-059. This was continued for items specific. Mr. Nary, could you,
please, outline those?
Nary: Yes, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, if you recall at your hearing on
March 27th at the conclusion of the hearing the discussion turned to continuing this
matter for some specific direction. In the minutes from that meeting the motion was
made to continue. The question was raised by Council member Zaremba as to whether
it was specific to certain points. It says -- Councilmember Zaremba in the minutes says:
I'd second that, but I question whether we want to specify exactly what we are looking
for. Do we need to delineate that or that it is already pretty clear. Councilmember Bird
said: I think that's pretty well. I think there is a lot of points they want to probably get in
and the applicant needs to have some definite answers on a couple of things that we
asked from them. I think it will be a short Public Hearing. The council, then, went on to
discuss the specific nature of what their requests were. There was some additional
comments by myself and Councilmember Rountree that this was not a resolved issue,
that it certainly may be -- it doesn't necessarily mean the Council has approved this
project, but they simply made some direction and they wanted some specific items
addressed as to the density, the lot sizes, the locations of some of those things. They
made some specific references in here and that was the direction Mr. Brown left with.
In fact, Mr. Brown offered to bring it back by the end of that week, too. Oh. Up on the
board you will see from the minutes what specifically was asked to be addressed. Mr.
Brown offered to have it done by the end of that week. It could have been on last week
if it could have been done, but it didn't give staff adequate time to review those. So,
tonight's meeting was simply continued to address those specific concerns that were
raised by Council and not to address the whole project in general.
De Weerd: Okay. Anna, anything to add?
Canning: No, ma'am. This was from -- we did go through all the minutes and point out
the key issues of discussion and those are listed there. So, I guess just for the public
that wants to testify if it's Council's desire, we are just anticipating that they address
those speCific topics.
De Weerd: Okay.
Canning: I will -- I can continue with my normal presentation or -- is that -- at this time if
that's what you want.
De Weerd: Well, I don't know what's normal on a continued Public Hearing, so if you
have anything to add this would be the time to do it.
Meridian City Council
April 1 0, 2007
Page 22 of 73
Canning: Yes, ma'am. As you know, this is the Blackrock Castle Greens project. It is
located on the west side of Eagle Road, approximately a half mile south of Amity Road.
The applications before you tonight are annexation and zoning and preliminary plat.
Based on your hearing of two weeks ago, the applicant has brought back a revised plat
and a concept plan or this map, which shows it a little bit easier. And in this revised
preliminary plat or this site plan as being presented, you will note that the -- the legend
here is a little hard to read, but the dark brown is over 10,000 square feet. Brown is
eight to ten thousand square feet. The yellowish is under 8,000 square feet. And green
is common area. So, as requested, the revised preliminary plat contains lots that
exceed 8,000 square feet over 90 percent of the perimeter -- subdivision perimeter.
And, actually, it's the entire perimeter. There are no -- oh, I'm sorry. There is one
yellow lot on the perimeter. And all the others are orange or brown. So, all, except that
one corner lot, exceed the 8,000 square feet. The applicant has agreed to cover the
irrigation ditch near their entryway. It -- to increase the safety the applicant has
provided a detailed breakdown of the value of the proposed neighborhood park and that
was on the memo that was distributed to you. I have that memo in electronic form.
That's what I was showing earlier. So, I can put it up on the screen if you'd like. The
applicant has proposed -- oh. The applicant has agreed to provide secondary access
with the first phase of the development to be approved by the fire department. The
applicant has proposed several architectural standards to be included in the
development agreement, which include a minimum of ten percent accent material on
the front facade. Minimum 12 inch eaves to protect from all -- to project from all exterior
walls and various other architectural enhancements. And, again, those enhancements
were on that memo provided to you as well. And I'll bring that up at the end of the
presentation. The applicant also included in that memo a portion of the proposed
CC&Rs for the development that referenced front yard landscaping and wing fencing.
The wing fencing being the short -- short fences that go from building to building -- from
house to house. Sorry. To -- for their side yard fences. With regard to outstanding
issues before City Council, we anticipate that there will still be some discussion about
the pathway on Scott Fulcher's property. We also anticipate some further discussion
about stub streets to the northern and northeasterly boundary. And I guess the big
question is Council satisfied with the proposed architectural standards or
enhancements. You have recently required -- or been offered more details with regard
to architectural elevations than -- for large projects than we appear to be getting here
and I just wanted to point out that both South Ridge and Baraya offered complete
design guidelines, with many enhancements. With more specific reference, this
developer, when they did Solitude Subdivision, talked about having a different minimum
standard for the rear yard elevations of homes that faced an arterial or collector road
and they haven't proposed that as part of the enhancements to my knowledge. And
also this builder does have stock elevations where there are no windows on -- you
know, two story and one story elevations where there is no windows on the sides. So,
that's something you may want to consider as well. So, all those refer back to the
architectural enhancements. Prior to tonight there had been one other written testimony
that was a letter from -- or e-mail communication from Dave Zaremba to Russ Fulcher.
That was copied and put as part of the record. There was also a response from Mr.
Fulcher later this afternoon. And I don't -- Will, did that get in the record? No. We can
Meridian City Council
April 1 0, 2007
Page 23 of 73
track that down and get copies. Oh, I'm sorry, Madam Mayor. That's all. I would stand
for any questions.
De Weerd: Didn't know if you were done or not.
Canning: Just faded off there at the end.
De Weerd: Any questions for staff at this time?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Just one question and it is on the subject of the park. We were asking for
more detail on the park. If my memory serves me correctly, in the meantime, during the
period that this was continued, didn't we pass a change to the park naming ordinance
and the request would be that this park not be named for the subdivision. I see the
parks director shaking his head yes.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird.
Bird: Anna, I got a -- probably a dumb question, but you say there is no windows on the
sides of the elevation. Unless there are for life safety in a bedroom or something, is
there a reason we require windows? I mean not that I would have anything against
them. They have been good to my family for 42 years, so --
De Weerd: I think -- Mr. Bird, I think staff listed that because it's been a concern in the
past of the look from the vision corridors and it's more in the vision corridors than
anything else.
Bird: Okay.
De Weerd: So, that's why it probably showed up on this. Okay. Any other questions at
this point? Okay. Where did you go?
Brown: For the record, Kent Brown, 1500 East Iron Eagle, Eagle, Idaho. We have tried
to make the necessary changes as discussed. I'd like to start with the park, to begin
with. Staff put the park design on here. In working with the parks department and parks
staff, we tried to come up with a design that they liked. We had their collector road that
comes here where they wanted to access that park. You have the booster pump
station, the Meridian booster pump station that's already built and located at that
location. So, we designed to put the parking here off the collector, with a shelter to the
north, with some picnic areas, but still trying to keep them away from any of the homes
that might be there with those active type uses. Again, the tot lot is located centrally
Meridian City Council
April 10, 2007
Page 24 of 73
here and, again, away from any of the houses where those might be a nuisance as kind
of directed that for court gaming area where we would have the opportunity to put
basketball standards on each end, but they said that there was also a desire to have
like a tennis court and so we designed that. There was some discussion at the parks
commission about having a tennis court. It was brought up at that meeting that the high
schools are the only place kind of in the valley that we really have tennis courts and it
would be nice to have one of those facilities there. Also, then, there would be two
backstops for some baseball to be played there, but for the most part this is just a lawn
area that -- as you're familiar with the neighborhood park system, that's not something
that you can really schedule, it is for people to walk and commute to and use that area.
So, that's been the thought behind it. You have the memo where we break out the cost,
the land donation. We are looking at building the entire park area totally. We'd build the
parking lot as a part of our financial responsibility and, then, this is the part for
reimbursement through park fees and so forth. I think it kind of speaks for itself. Are
there any questions about details on the park necessarily?
De Weerd: Council, any questions on that?
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor, Just to clarify, the discussion on whether it's a tennis court or
a basketball court or is it the same court that's convertible?
Brown: It's the same court that's convertible, Councilman Zaremba. Basically, you
would have a net up. Long term it's kind of like a test case, it sounds like to me, and
Doug's here that can speak to that maybe at greater length, but you could have two half
court basketball courts going on or you could play tennis. One of my neighbors built
one of these in his -- and, you know, sometimes they are playing ice hockey and they
take the -- or rollerskate hockey and take the net down and other times, you know, we
are playing full court basketball and put the net up and play tennis. So, it kind of gives
you a little bit of both. There is putting the net up and down type of deal that needs to
take place to make it a tennis court.
Zaremba: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Brown: Anna, could we go to the lot configuration? Per your request we did move the
lots where you're looking at seeing the change. It starts here at this northerly stub
street, the second to the west, and goes all the way around, including all the lots along
the south. The brown lots that are at the toe of the hill, they were already 12,000 or
larger in that area. I think the corners we get to 18,000 square feet. We did increase
the ones here. We turned -- and turned, went across the street, and raised some of the
lots that are across from those where we could, to kind of make those balance a little bit
in size. Overall, these numbers change minorly, but for the most part they just moved
internally and that was kind of what we understood. For example, this area here and
Meridian City Council
April 1 0, 2007
Page 25 of 73
this area here were larger lots before and now they are some of the smaller ones. We
put some of the smaller ones around the park and in this location. So, we moved them
per your request from the exterior to the interior. We have talked to the landowners
adjacent to us and we have an agreement with them to have a cross-access easement
that's a part of moving the sewer across their property, which is the White Bark
Subdivision, which you're familiar with, which connects at this point, goes up to Amity
Road. We have that connection. Our other possibilities are there to comply with that
requirement, but to extend sewer to this site, the sewer department is going to want a
maintenance road over the top of this sewer and so it's kind of a dual functioning
secondary access and sewer access off of -- the sewer department needs access to
those manholes. So, as a part of doing that we will provide secondary access to the
first phase of the development. Anna brought up the stub street issue. Representatives
for the Fulchers had asked that this stub street be done away with. We don't really
care. I mean that wasn't -- and I think that that was our testimony at the last meeting.
We have provided those stubs per what's good planning for the parcels being over here.
They are looking at the possibility of some noncommercial or some nonresidential uses
and didn't think that they might need that, but that they might need access to the sewer.
Either way, we are amenable to that. Scott Fulcher's property is located here north of
our entrance. We are still willing to work with him in the future about extending that
pathway through and at this point I don't know really what else we can say that -- some
of the difficulties in talking with Anna's staff earlier today is the question of this pathway
being built on county ground, because Scott Fulcher's property isn't being annexed.
Where that path goes also is in alignment with his driveway. I have an aerial that I can
show you if you'd like to look at that to see how that pathway interferes with that existing
home, but we are willing to try to make that happen, but, realistically, whether it does or
doesn't we have provided a pedestrian connection at the end of the path here and we
have provided a pedestrian connection that staff was looking for. All along in this
process we have tried to be flexible, tried to adapt to what the staff has asked and the
other agencies as we have gone along, just like the changes that we just recently made.
And so when the police department or fire department brought up issues as we were in
the early portion of the comments, we have tried to address those and be proactive in
trying to reach those. That's my portion at least, the sub street and the platting issues.
Mr. Hubble is here to speak ~- Don Hubble to speak to the homes and the other potions
that you had questions on.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Hubble: Good evening, Madam Mayor and Members of the Council. My name is Don
Hubble. My office address is 701 South Allen Street here in Meridian. I am the
president of Hubble Homes and Providence Development Group. I'm also here on
behalf of our full team. We have roughly 120 people in the office here in Meridian and
we also consider that we -- our workforce in the field contractors consists of another
eight or nine hundred people. So, we have a number of folks here today and I just want
to ask them to, please, stand and acknowledge that they are here. Thank you. This is
just a little -~ we are passionate about what we do and we are extremely proud of the
product that we provide, the homes that we build. We have been civic partners here in
Meridian City Council
April 10, 2007
Page 26 of 73
Meridian for the past ten years and plan to be for a long time and we respect our civic
leaders and we are going to honor whatever decision you make tonight. But this is
important to us and we want to tell you part of our story. So, it's important that we
explain how we do things. First of all, we don't ever -- we very rarely build specs. Our
business plan is to not build specs. We offer a number of floor plans and a number of
elevations and we let our home buyers come in and choose what they'd like to purchase
and we want them to purchase that home before we ever build it. So, they make those
choices. A second step in our process is it's important for us to know our buyer. We
send out extensive surveys, questionnaires, to people who have just previously
purchased homes and we ask them what's important to them and it's a nine page
questionnaire. We ask them a couple of different ways if they had additional money to
spend where would they spend it. And 60 percent of those responses say that they'd
like to have more space, which leads us to our prevailing business model. More space
for less money. The third step is that we want to know our market. We study what's
going on. For example, here is some interesting information. In Meridian -- and we
have data from a couple of different sources, but the median family income from one
source says 57,000 dollars a year, another source is 63,000 dollars a year. So, let's just
assume somewhere in the middle. The median family income -- that's both wage
earnings -- is about 60,000 dollars a year. If you look at the FHA borrowing charts, that
will equate to borrowing a home worth about 185,000. A mortgage for 185,000 dollars.
Let me just kind of drive the point here a little bit further with some individual incomes.
We took this off of some statistics here locally out of Meridian and it says that the
average wage -- this is the mean -- for protective services, our police officers, fire
department folks, ambulance, services -- the mean income of 29,500 dollars. An entry
level police officer position in the City of Meridian is 34,000 dollars. The average
teacher wage in School District No.2, of which that's the largest employer in Meridian,
by the way, 3,800 people, the average income is 41,000 dollars. Retail average is
29,000 dollars. Construction workers are 30,000. St. Luke's across the board averages
42,000 dollars. So, the 60,000 dollars is very real for family income. Let me try to tell
you how we work with that in preparing a home. In Castle Greens our lot cost -- this is
no profit. This is our hard cost with the land and the infrastructure, will be roughly
90,000 dollars. Now, that includes -- we allocate roughly 4,000 dollars to this park. So,
without that park we could have saved -- we would have reduced our lot price down to
86. But our lot price is 90,000 dollars. Our permit in the City of Meridian is 9,000
dollars. And the additional architectural requests and the landscaping and so forth that
we have been talking about so far, adds up to another 7,000 dollars. That's a total of
106,000 dollars. If you're starting at 185, that leaves us 79,000 dollars to build the
home. We can't even build a home for a family in the median income level in Meridian
in Castle Greens. So, we are already starting above the median and in the upper half of
income levels. We have a couple other constraints in Meridian that are important to
know. First of all, we have a minimum home size of 1,400 square feet. So, we cannot
build smaller than that. And there is another ordinance that says that on a two story
home you must have at least 600 square feet on the ground floor. That eliminates a
couple of our plans in the range between 1,400 and 2,000 square feet. So, our plans in
Meridian jump from 1,400 up to 2,000 square feet, which is a substantial difference in
price, too. Let me give you a couple of comparisons around the valley. We are building
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in Razzberry Crossing here in north Meridian. We have a 1,400 square foot home and
our base price is 198,000 dollars. That's 140 dollars a square foot. In Caldwell we
offer a home at 3,500 square feet for 180,000 dollars. Fifty-one dollars a square foot.
That same 3,500 square foot of home of ours in Meridian is 274,000 dollars. That's--
I'm sorry, 254,000 dollars. It's 74,000 dollars more than in Caldwell. So, when we look
at the freeways and wonder how come people are commuting, with that difference in
price, we are forcing people that want larger homes to move west. Meridian is
participating in the Blueprint For Good Growth, a primary part of that is that the Blueprint
believes that jobs and housing should be as close to each other as possible. We want
to eliminate people having to drive commuting distances in order to own a home and
that only makes sense. That's going to save energy through transportation. It will
protect our air quality. In fact, we estimated that a couple commuting from Caldwell will
probably spend roughly 200 dollars a month in gas driving back and forth to Meridian.
Let me try to quantify our incremental costs, the cost of our home. Once we get a home
built and we have already paid for the lot and the permit and the kitchen and the bath,
we can go to a larger home -- we can go from 2,500 to 3,000 square feet for roughly 25
dollars a square foot, which means that the architectural amenities -- the features that
we offered in Solitude, amount to roughly 4,000 dollars. That's 160 square feet of space
that we have to give up -- that a home buyer has to give up in order to provide those
architectural features. If we look at the additional ones that we are talking about in
Castle Greens in terms of the brick and the landscaping, that's an extra 2,400 dollars,
that's an extra roughly 100 square feet. Between the two of those that's 260 square feet
of living space that we have to forego -- our buyers must forego in order to install those
architectural features. So, let me just get to the point and first address landscaping. I
know that was a concern. It was mentioned that landscaping would like to be a
requirement. This community represents an investment in total home value of about
150 million dollars. It is a big deal to us. We have measures in place that we offer to
install homes -- the landscaping if the buyers select that, but we also can require that in
our covenants and have other methods for making sure that happens. We would -- we
would like you to trust us. With that level of investment out here we will make sure that
our yards get installed. That should not be an issue. So, I don't need to -- we will make
sure that that gets done our way. I just wanted to comment briefly on the density. In
the Comprehensive Plan roughly half of this land shows as medium density residential,
which by definition in the Comp Plan that's anywhere from three to eight units per acre.
If you look at our overall Slackrock and Castle Greens, we are at three units per acre.
Even if you take out the Slackrock, we are only 3.6 units per acre. That's hardly
medium density, in our opinion. That feels like low density and I just wanted to make
the point. We have submitted the plan and we support that, but to try to get more
people in Meridian, higher density would be very helpful in our whole economics. Kent
mentioned the park. Just so you know, that we considered that to be an investment in
land of roughly a million dollars and the improvements associated with that are about
1.7 million dollars. So, we are doing a park that's worth to us 2.7 million dollars. It's a
big deal, too. So, now back to our architecture. When we did Solitude we brought in
renderings and offered amenities and features and said with these -- we will add these
and it cost us about 4,000 dollars. Now we want -- we are talking about adding ten
percent brick and we are asking for the landscape and the wing fences. I just want to
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April 1 0, 2007
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reiterate that we are very proud of our product and home buyers appreciate what we are
providing for them. We just question the need for whatever architectural features are
even required. First of all, we can screen from any heavily traffic -- traveled street up
here and make sure that the general public does not have to look inside our community.
It should be that the only people that see each other's homes live across the street or
next door and it shouldn't be a big deal.
It --
De Weerd: Mr. Hubble, if I can ask you to start summing your remarks up.
Hubble: You know, Madam Mayor, in fact, I can stop at anytime, too. We will-- let's do
this. We are here tonight to ask your approval without any architectural -- additional
architectural request. We will comply with whatever ordinances are in place, with the
building code, but we are asking you to not impose additional architectural features on
us tonight for the sake of the buyers that want to live in Meridian and have more space
for the money. We just ask you if you can promote the American value of providing the
freedom of choice, we'd appreciate that. And I would answer any questions that you
might have.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions?
Rountree: I have none at this point.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. I do have a number of people who have signed up and
indicated their support or neutrality or other comments as they have signed up. So,
when I call your name if you'd like to provide testimony specifically to the items that
were continued on, I would ask you to come forward. Otherwise, I will just state your
support or whatever your opinion is on this application. Tim Taylor. There were no
boxes marked, so you can fill in the blank.
Taylor: Okay.
De Weerd: If you will, please, state your name and address.
Taylor: I am Tim Taylor -- Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, my name is Tim
Taylor at 1488 here in Meridian.
De Weerd: 1488 what?
Taylor: East Blue Tick. Sorry. I guess I'm a little bit nervous.
De Weerd: You were just seeing if I was listening; right?
Taylor: There you go. To remind you, I'm also a developer and I'm also buying a lot in
Blackrock portion of this annexation and I truly appreciate the efforts of the developer to
make a good subdivision, since I'm going to live there. I think it's a very good use of the
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April 1 0, 2007
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land, as far as, you know, costs versus the use of the city services that will be provided
there. I appreciate the parks. I appreciate the trails. And I appreciate Mr. Hubble
paying all these people overtime to show up here. However, Mr. Hubble did start out by
saying his business plan is about making choices and I think the choice to live in
Meridian at some point needs to be made and I appreciate all his figures for the average
salaries and so forth. And as a developer I can appreciate the cost of land and
appreciate the cost of adding materials. But he would not leave off the front door and
sell the home. It's my opinion that he should also not leave off the front landscaping,
the wing fences, and some architectural accents and I can appreciate that this might
cost another four or five thousand dollars, but what is that in a monthly payment -- it's
not very much. Twenty, thirty dollars a month. And I feel that for an extra 20 or 30
dollars a month to make sure that this subdivision turns out to be something that the
City of Meridian will be -- well, it will be considered an asset to the City of Meridian, I
think it's worth that. And the choice is if they can't afford the extra 20 or 30 dollars a
month in their house payment, then, maybe they need to pick a location where Mr.
Hubble's come up with some less expensive land in the past. And that's only a few
miles further in commute time. The fact is that -- does that yellow mean I have like a
minute?
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Taylor: The fact is if someone moves -- if somebody scrapes together their pennies for
a down payment to move into a house and to get that extra square feet that growing
families need today, then, they can't afford to scrape together their pennies to put in the
landscaping and whatever and as soon as one person doesn't do it, then, their neighbor
decides, well, if he's not going to landscape, then, I'm not going to landscape and pretty
soon these things are not looking very well.
De Weerd: Mr. Taylor, I will ask you to summarize.
Taylor: Okay. I just think that the choice needs to be to have the landscaping and the
architectural accents in place before they move in, so they will be in place. Mr. Hubble
has asked us to trust him, but I can point out places where there have been people that
are living beyond the 90 days and when is the last time that a CC&R covenant was
enforced? I would challenge that it probably hasn't been enforced. Thanks.
De Weerd: Okay. Jeff Beck signed up for.
Beck: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, thank you for your time to listen.
De Weerd: If you will, please, state your name and address.
Beck: My name is Jeff Beck. I'm at 1805 Overland Drive in Meridian. I have looked at
Meridian, I'm considering the purchase of a home in that area and I'm transferring from
a location across the country to be here. Meridian -- as my wife came out and visited
this past week -- it is the preferred area, because of the school system and the
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opportunities that are there. So, we really appreciate that. One of the things that I am
in a little bit of frustration on is the idea that I would have to move out of town. One of
the reasons for my job change and things is to give more time and devote more time to
my family. So, the idea that I get caught in traffic having to drive those few extra miles,
can translate into several minutes each way that I have -- that I'm away from my two
boys that I have, one of them ten and one of them six years old. So, it is something of a
matter of passion that you're able to provide these types of facilities as far as an
affordable amount of square footage that we can enjoy for our family and that's what I
would like to offer to the Council. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Don Cantrill.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: And I only -- I raise this in light of reaction we got with regard to Mr. Hubble's
comments and everyone who is here. If you wouldn't mind, everyone who is providing
public testimony, if you would identify if you're employed by Hubble Homes in any
capacity. You just saved me from asking each individual one. I think that's fair to put
that reference on the record.
De Weerd: We know that Mr. Taylor wasn't. Mr. Beck, were you?
Cantrill: Madam Mayor --
De Weerd: I'm sorry. Just a moment.
Cantrill: Oh. Excuse me.
De Weerd: Okay. For the record Mr. Beck is employed. Okay. Thank you, sir.
Cantrill: Madam Mayor and City Council Members, my name is Don Cantrill. Excuse
me. I live at 3000 East Lake Hazel in Meridian. 83642.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Cantrill: My -- I got a couple -- just quick questions here. Anyway, my property is down
here, which is 30 acres, and I have another house here, then, I own the two lots here,
which I appreciate going from the R-8 to the R-4 here. And now, once again, is there a
berm, a fence, any sort of tree work along the side there? What I have got problems
with is that once in awhile we got that road, that little ditch right here, and people walk
their dogs there and I get into -- their dogs like to chase my cattle and my horses. The
other concern that I have is, basically, the traffic. Obviously right now I think it would --
as much as is going on right now, when I go -- I live right here and when I go to work, go
onto Lake Hazel to Eagle, it used to take me six minutes to go three miles. Now it's
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taking me between 17 and 22 minutes at 7:30 a.m. A lot of the traffic is also coming
from Kuna, down Lake Hazel, Lake Hazel to Eagle, to miss the Meridian expressway
there. Obviously, they showed pictures of the park where they have all of the kids over
here playing soccer, so on the weekends you don't even want to try to go down Eagle
Road, unless you got about a 45 minute time to eat your sandwich and so forth.
Obviously, the first gentleman that spoke about the appearance of the houses I'm pretty
much a ditto there. I think if you gave your customer the choice I can assure you less
than ten percent is going to take the facade, the improvements. If, indeed, they are
driving now from Caldwell and further out, they are going to be saving their money on
gas on the improvements of their facility. So, I think it would be mucher ahead. I'd like
to see this not a trailer park, but something here in Meridian to be extremely proud of
and I think by adding just a few items to their houses I think it's going to be much
greater appreciation. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. John Chandler. Signed up for.
Chandler: Madam Mayor, Members of the Meridian City Council, my name is John
Chandler. I live at 1033 Rolling Hills Drive in Meridian. I live in a Hubble Home and I'm
proud to be a new home specialist for Hubble Homes. One of the first lessons I learned
in sales is my opinion doesn't matter. What does matter is understanding the needs
and wants of my customer. The better I become at listening and understanding the
more successful I have become and the more successful my employer has become.
But the person who ultimately decides the success of me and my employer is the
customer. The customer. Let us never lose site of the fact that the customer is the one
who pays our way. The customer is the one who decides what is right and what is
wrong for their family. And the customer is the one who votes with their feet. If they
can't get what they want at one place, they will go to the next place. If they can't get it
there, they will go to the next and so on until they either find a way to get what they want
or they live with their pain. Choice is the number two pledge of Hubble Homes. People
have choices when they buy a Hubble Home. Everyone has a choice. Everyone likes
having a choice. Even if you choose to select everything that everyone else decides,
you have still made a choice. One of the things that really strikes a cord with my
customers is a very simple question. How does it make you feel when someone else
makes a decision on how to spend your money? I would ask each of you the same
question. We live in a capitalist society. It's one of the things that makes this country
great. We can go where we want, buy what we want, and live where we want. Woe is
the day that our elected officials start making choices about where we can live. Please
don't be the elected officials who tell the hourly worker who works two jobs to support
his family that you need brick on the front of your house. The single mom who is proud
of the success of her little girl, who is having success in school, but missed a school
function because she got caught in traffic on her way out to Nampa where she rents an
apartment, though she works in Meridian. But you need to have special architecture
designs on your home. I would plead to you members of the Meridian City Council to
not put your personal opinions or biases on the people who work here and want to live
here. Let the market determine the direction we should take. The market is
represented by people who put you in this position to speak for them. Since Hubble
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April 1 0, 2007
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Homes only builds the homes people want, with the amenities they get to choose, the
market will drive us to change if they choose differently. The market choice and
freedom -- surely you aren't against these things. Please don't show, through any
additional requirements, that you are. Thank you.
De Weerd: Something Kincade, I'm assuming. I can't read the signature. Taylor? I
don't know. He signed up after John. Kincade or Rincade. Well, whoever signed up
for. And if I don't get you, you can come up afterwards if I haven't called your name.
And you would have been that person. Tina Lith -- Litt signed up for. You don't have to
provide testimony. Okay. You are noted on the public record that you are for this
application. Thank you. Don Hubble for. N-y-j. Okay. Nichole Young is for. Doug
Milton. Mulligan. Thank you. Susan Stanley for. Okay. Thank you. Bill Jordan for.
Mr. Borton, would you like to know if they are employees? When I call their name they
can just nod or --
Borton: They can nod. That's fine.
De Weerd: Okay. Matthew -- Matthew is for. Okay. Casey Nye for. Thank you.
Christine Allen for.
Canning: Madam Mayor, I don't think your.- the nods were appropriately registered as
being employees, because Dean can't see them.
De Weerd: Okay. Everyone I said since I made that statement has been employees.
How is that, Dean? I was noting it for the public record.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Zaremba: Not to put too fine a point on it -- and while I agree with Joe, my interest
would be the ones that actually speak. I don't mind if they signed up yes or no and they
are an employee or not, but the ones that actually say something I would care to know.
De Weerd: Thank you. Thank you. If you will, please, state your name and address.
Allen: My name is Christine Allen and I live at 369 East Willow Creek Drive in
Middleton, Idaho.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Allen: And pardon me for not addressing appropriately jf I make a mistake. I'm new.
De Weerd: We have all been there.
Meridian City Council
April 1 0, 2007
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Allen: Prior to being an employee of Hubble Homes I was a customer first. I moved
here from Arizona about a year and a half ago and I looked all over the valley. I'm
originally from New Plymouth, Idaho. Was born and raised there. I was born in Ontario
and I have been gone for approximately 20 years and really desired to come back. I
have looked around the valley and with -- my medium income is in the median range
that Mr. Hubble explained and I was not afforded to be able to buy something towards
Boise area. So, I just would like to say that as a customer first before being an
employee of Hubble, I really appreciate Hubble Homes offering me the choice to be
able to afford something without being forced to pay for things. It was a nice relief to
know that. Seeing things in California and in Arizona, the structural and architectural
changes or additions -- you're potentially forced to, but coming back home and having a
man design something that allows you the freedom to have a piece of that American
dream without having to pay for something structural so that you really have the four
walls to raise your family in and to have your safety -- is very much appreciated and so I
just would like to say that I am for this motion, that I would hope that you guys of the
Council would consider -- come to some kind of a medium point with everybody, so that
we can allow people like me to maybe live closer and not drive those lengthy hours.
And also, for the record, I'm not getting paid overtime. I have come here on my own
choice. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Rountree: You should be.
De Weerd: Okay. The next two printing jobs I cannot read. So, if I skip you -- well,
actually, there is three. And even the fourth -- I think the last name is Litt or Lott. Litt?
And your first name was? Rick Litt. Okay. Everyone above Rick I will ask you to print
next time. Okay. Ben Ash -- Ben something. Ben Ashton. Thank you. He's an
employee. He is for. And so was Mr. Litt. Okay. Josh Patrel is for. Thank you. An
employee. Kevin Anderson for. Thank you. If you will, please, state your name and
address for the record.
Anderson: My name is Kevin Anderson. I live at 6310 Victory Lane in Melba.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Anderson: I have lived in --
De Weerd: Well, your time is not up.
Anderson: I was born and raised here. I went to school with Mr. Cantrill's kids and Mr.
Russell's kids also. I have lived here my whole life. We didn't have affordable housing.
I have five boys. As the years have gone on to get more space for my family I have had
to keep moving out farther and farther and now I'm in Melba. I don't think that's right
that a native person -- and I am an employee here of Hubble Homes, but I haven't
always been an employee here at Hubble Homes. I have always been a builder in the
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April 1 0, 2007
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valley. My dad was a builder, as a matter of fact. So, I was raised that way. I know
how it is to build homes. I got on board on purpose, because I see the value in these
homes. I have worked for their competition also and several other builders in this
valley. Right now I have been forced out -- out of town where I grew up. I went to high
school. I played with Mr. Bird. He was my coach. And it did -- it's not fair to me and my
family that we are being pushed out of Meridian, because there is no affordable housing
for my family. So, I'm here on my kids' point to try to talk for them. So, that's all I have
to say.
De Weerd: Thank you. Judy Peavey-Derr for.
Peavey-Derr: I'm Judy Peavey-Derr. 701 Allen Street, Meridian. I do work for Hubble
Homes and I'm not being paid overtime. And I don't think anybody here is being paid
overtime. I would bet that they are here on their own free will. I just want to remind you
all, Mayor and Council, of our commitment, as I was once a commissioner and we at the
county put in, before I left office, over 200,000 dollars on a plan call Blueprint For Good
Growth. That plan, which you also funded to I think the degree of 100,000 dollars, was
that not right? Fifty at a pop. Is sitting there waiting to be put to use -- be put into
action. And part of the action is this: To get people to live and work in the same place
and as you heard tonight, many folks are being driven out further and further and further
from their workplace and what we are seeing is more congestion on 1-84 and more air
quality that's being -- going in the toilet, so to speak. We can make a change and a
difference in that tonight and I think we have an obligation to consider this project and
approve it. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Allen Derr is signed up for. He's not an employee, Dean. But
he's married to one, I might add for the record. Okay. Shane Stevenson for.
Stevenson: Madam Mayor and Members of the Council. My name is Shane
Stevenson. I live at 119 Park Bend Way in Caldwell, Idaho. I am an employee of
Hubble Homes. I stand before you to tell you today that Hubble Homes -- I do own a
Hubble Home. I do live in a Hubble Home. I came and joined the Hubble Home team
fresh out of school, having no money, being in debt up to my eyeballs and trying to get
that first home loan. So, I know the importance of being able to spend your money in
the place that you want to spend it and getting what you need as a new home buyer.
Hubble Homes provided me with a home that I enjoy, but it's not in the area that I would
hope to live in. My wife is a native of the area, grew up in the area, and always has had
the desire to live back in Meridian where her grandfather -- her parents grew up. It is
my goal some day to build enough equity and to move back into this area, but I would
ask that the Council consider the things that have been presented tonight to help keep
the cost of homes down in the area, so that people like myself, young, new families,
new homes buyers, can move back into this area and we don't push all the new people
to the far outskirts of the valley. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Bill Hoss for. Okay. James Stewart for. Thank you. Brian
Hawk. Pardon? Herr. Herb. Thank you. Brian Herb. Okay. John Calvert for.
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April 10, 2007
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Calvert: I don't even know how to introduce myself. My name is John Calvert. I live at
9622 West Petina Drive, Boise, Idaho. I have no affiliation at all with Hubble Homes.
My wife has no affiliation with Hubble Homes. I'm a real estate consultant with John L.
Scott. I also suffer from stage fright. I'm basically here tonight as -- not even as a
personal favor, it was brought to my attention that -- that Hubble was trying to get this
development through and that it was somewhat of a difficult situation. I'm wondering if I
could actually just have your opinions on what seems to be holding up the process, so I
have a little more understanding before I start in on my sales pitch.
De Weerd: Well, usually we ask you questions.
Calvert: Okay. Excellent. To really get down to it, I -- I'm one of the real estate agents
-- one of the few that probably gives Hubble a little more hell if pOSSible than anybody
else. I fight them pretty hard tooth and nail in some of their business practices. My wife
is a mortgage loan consultant that does not work for Wells Fargo, which is who they are
associated with, and her business has been to a degree hurt by -- by their partnership
with Hubble. However, with all that we are both owners of two Hubble Homes. We
bought our properties -- the first one we had very little money and were just starting in
our businesses and we bought a very small home in Charter Pointe Subdivision in
Boise, Idaho, and we got out of what we would consider kind of a dump and there is a
pride in ownership that happens for first time home buyers that I think Hubble Homes
offers. We bought our second home from Hubble about six months later. We realized
that if we didn't purchase the second property by the end of 2005, we were not going to
be able to afford a property large enough for a bigger family. Now we have another
baby on the way, so we are going to have a family of four and we live in 3,200 square
feet and it's more than enough room for us and guests and everything else. We don't
plan on moving anytime soon. It's a good property. It's well built. Both properties that
we bought we didn't put landscape packages in by Hubble, we actually did our own. It
took us longer than 90 days, but we got them in. I guess -- I guess one thing that I -- I
want to say is I work in residential real estate and the people that I work with are not
what I would consider wealthy, they just -- they want to stay as close to their office or
their place of business as possible and they are definitely being pushed away. They are
being pushed to Kuna. They are being pushed to Nampa, Caldwell. There are things
being said in the media by all -- not Kuna so much, but Nampa and Caldwell that -- that
make families not want to live there. Meridian is the center of the Treasure Valley and I
think it's necessary to have some higher density property -- residential property, just to
keep away from the sprawl, so --
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Penelope Riley. No indication of for or against. Just
discussion.
Riley: Mayor, Members of the Council, Penelope Riley. I'm with Treasure Valley
Engineers, 1204 6th Street North, Nampa, Idaho.
De Weerd: Thank you.
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April 10, 2007
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Riley: And I'm going to go right to the kernel here. The combination of Anna's
comments about what topics needed to still be discussed, as well as that bullet list that
you had on the display screen, so -- we have duly noted that the density has been
changed where it abuts those neighboring parcels and I would like to thank Hubble for
making that happen. It was a good choice. One of the stub streets that's currently
shown on the plan connects to the Fulcher's site and you can see it there about midway
up. I have had discussions with ACHD and with the City of Meridian about the potential
-- thank you. The potential of deleting the stub street. At this point in time I don't think
it's possible. AGHD won't allow us to, unless we had some kind of application pending
that could lock in use of the Fulcher parcel in the future and would assure them that we
wouldn't have some kind of random action going on on that parcel that would cause
conflict with this larger parcel. So, we'd like to leave that there. We'd like to thank
Hubble for providing access to Scott Fulcher's parcel. We'd like to ask for a third one.
And it doesn't need to be a road, a driveway is quite acceptable. But there is a third
family member, Russ Fulcher, whose parcel is right in this area. So, he's not connected
to Scott and he's not connected to Mr. or Mrs. Fulcher. So, I would be happy to work
with Hubble Homes to put some kind of a driveway in that would give Russ Fulcher a
formal access to his home located -- we are going to run into problems with Eagle Road
access. Scott has Eagle Road access. Mr. and Mrs. Fulcher have Eagle Road
access. Having worked at ACHD, I understand you start having conflicts when you get
too many driveway accesses too close. Providing Russ with an access through the
subdivision would eliminate any kind of immediate access problems. I'm going to move
along real quickly. Sewer and water -- there is parcel that Hubble Homes is working
with or Providence Development -- actually extends to the north boundary of the Ten
Mile drain and the Fulchers would like storm water stubbed to the literal property
boundary on the north side of the Ten Mile Drain. There is a couple reasons for that. If,
for example, they are a little slow making their mind up about how they want to develop
and ACHD decides to shift some funds and do Eagle Road work more quickly than
everyone anticipated, all of a sudden we have a moratorium on cutting Eagle Road and
the Fulchers are not able to access to sewer and water. So, if it's provided to them
across the drain to their property boundary, we no longer have a problem with them
being boxed in. I have a couple more items. May I move forward?
De Weerd: Are you the spokesperson for the --
Riley: I can take Scott's time. Okay. Next item. The vinyl fence -- the Fulchers have
requested that I speak to you about providing a privacy fence, something like a no see
through vinyl fence. It would run as close as possible to the Fulchers southwest
property boundary all the way down to where Scott Fulcher's parcel is across the ditch
and down around his parcel, providing --
De Weerd: Please use the--
Riley: Yes, ma'am. It requires glasses. The privacy fence we'd like to see all along this
boundary and, then, obviously, we can't fence across the drain, but the privacy fence
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would also provide Mr. Scott Fulcher with some protection from his neighbors, his new
-- and a little bit more high density neighbors. The next thing I'd like to talk about is the
pathway. I was listening to Kent talk about the fact that the pathway crosses Meridian
property and, then, it goes into the county and, then, it's back in Meridian. So, we have
decided to request City Council to allow that pathway to remain as it's currently shown
on the most recent site plan and -- which means that the pathway that connects this
drain -- this greenway path to Eagle Road skirts Scott Fulcher's site as it's been shown,
more often than not, I think over time. And, then, just as a final comment --
Zaremba: I'm sorry, I didn't follow that.
Riley: Oh, sorry.
Zaremba: Use the pointer and tell me where you want it to be.
Riley: Sure. Most of the time the connection of this greenway path to North Meridian
Road has been a topic of discussion. As it's shown now, the pathway skirts Scott
Fulcher's site to the west and to the south. We'd like it to remain that way. There was
some discussion about doing a property swap and giving the applicant in this instance
an additional 20 foot swath next to the drain, doing a property swap for Scott for
additional property to the south. Mr. Fulcher has decided -- Mr. Fulcher has decided
that he would like this pathway to remain at it's location, which is skirting his property to
the west and to the south, instead of running along the drain. Is that clear? Do I need
to --
Zaremba: Thank you. I understood it that time.
Riley: And, finally, just a general comment. When you have a small parcel like this
abutting a large parcel that has a very concentrated design and there is a lot of things
going on there, it's very easy for the small parcel to get impacted in such a way that it
becomes virtually unusable. That was our original concern with the stub street that's
shown that we are going to leave -- part of it has to do with how it's screened, how we
can use it. Most of the Fulcher's site's in the floodway, so we already have site
constraints we need to deal with. So, I encourage you, respectfully, to look out for the
Fulchers and make sure that whenever happens below them and to the side of them
doesn't generate a hardship, whether it's intended or not, that would destroy their ability
to use their parcel in the future. And I would stand for questions.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none.
Canning: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
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Canning: May I ask for clarification on the vinyl fencing. I resorted -- or went back to
the former concept plan, Penelope, as shown behind you.
Riley: Uh-huh.
Canning: And their property line is on the north side of the canal there. Now, did you
want the fence on the back of the lots or at the property line? Is that -- which were you
asking for?
Riley: I believe that they would prefer that the vinyl fencing be located on their property
-- on their property line, which means on the north side of the drain.
Canning: Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Zaremba: I'm sorry. Madam Mayor. Isn't the property line usually the center of the
waterway?
Riley: In this instance it is not.
Zaremba: It's not?
Riley: Councilman. It, actually, is located on the north side of the drain.
Zaremba: Okay. Thank you.
Riley: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Russ Fulcher.
Fulcher: Madam Mayor, Members of the City Council, my name is Russ Fulcher. 4035
South Linder Road, Meridian. And as Penelope just outlined, our family has the
property that is along this boundary right here, so we are arguably the most impacted of
anyone as a result of this development, and as also mentioned earlier, I had some
written testimony earlier -- or on March 27. I'm not going to regurgitate that. There
were two primary points that I pointed out there that had to do with compatibility, just
long term fit with the Meridian plan that I was concerned about, but I wanted to make
one comment on previous testimony. Mr. Brown had -- and Mr. Hubble both had
indicated how pleased they were with the flexibility that they have exhibited this far.
That may be true for agencies. I can tell you my perception as a neighbor is that was
not true. There was no flexibility until March 27 when things didn't go quite as well as
they wanted it to go. So, I thank you for that -- that particular meeting and I think there
is probably some flexibility now. But there was not earlier. We were feeling pretty
pressured. In fact, we are as a family feeling quite pressured over this and we debated
internally a long time what to do, shall we try to opposed it, shall we try to corroborate.
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For a lot of reasons we decided that opposing it wasn't the right idea. If we were in the
reverse situation we wouldn't appreciate that. So, I'm not standing here in opposition. I
am standing here in the spirit of corroboration. But as Penelope pointed out, I want to
make it clear for the record that our actions are reactions and the reason they are
reactions is we didn't have any intent on doing anything with this property until this
started happening around us. When this started happening around us, we were forced
into a situation of trying to identify ways that we could try to protect our property value
and our usability. So, with the comments and the request that Penelope offered, that's
the spirit of where that's coming from. The intent there is to try to -- we don't exactly
know what we want to do. We are trying to lay the groundwork now, because we feel it
needs to be laid now to provide and maintain usability for something in the future. So,
that's the reasons for those requests. Penelope did a fine job in doing that. I, for one,
don't believe that you have to be the ones who mandate that. I would be willing to sit
down with Mr. Hubble, Mr. Brown, or whomever on their staff, and negotiate those fine
points, as long as I know I have a partner that will negotiate with me. I haven't had that
to date. Obviously, I will submit to your ruling on how to accommodate that, but I just
throw that out for your consideration. Madam Mayor, Members of the City Council,
that's really all I had to share with you. And it's more on a personal level. I do thank
you for your service. I have a little bit of feel for what you're going through. I would
stand for questions.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Barbara Fulcher. Okay. Scott Fulcher gave his
testimony over. And Tom Sylvester.
Sylvester: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, my name is Tom Sylvester. Self-
employed. Office 12060 Executive Drive in Boise. I didn't put down whether I was for
or against this this evening. I wanted to see what Hubble came with tonight, as far as --
and I also didn't think that when we left this March 27th meeting that this was approved
with the fine details needed to be worked out. When we left the meeting on the 27th,
Mr. Brown said in that meeting that they could have the landscaping and the wing
fences in place at closing. On the memo to the Mayor and City Council of April 10th,
they agreed to the wing fences, the landscaping, and the architectural accents. Tonight
when they come before you they don't want to do any of this. They say that 4,000
dollars in landscaping and fence, they would include in the house, but, then, they also
say that they would be able to put it together in 90 days. Why is that not being included
in the house. It can be put in escrow, it can be -- it has to be done when the house is
put together. If it doesn't get done when the house is -- upon closing, it doesn't get
done. Even with the additional dollars I still believe that this house is the lowest cost
house in the area. I drove through this area the other day and I started out at Overland
Road and drove through some of the subdivisions that are there currently. You have
got Sportsman's Place, Meridian Greens, Observation Pointe, the Tuscany
developments. I don't think Meridian needs this project. I don't think that we need to
have it the way that it is now, the way that it's been put forth, and I don't think that if we
have some of these basic minimum things established before they break ground out
there, then, the horse is out of the barn and there is no way to get it back in. I think that
the cooperation tonight has not been that great, that it's we want to do it the way we
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want to do it, without these additions, and our CC&Rs will take care of the rest. And I
don't have a lot of confidence in that. And I would like to see the Council restrain this
project until some of those things are satisfied. That's all I have.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Those are the names that were signed up on the list. If
there is anyone who would like to provide testimony, you're invited to come forward.
Okay. Thank you. Okay. Council, any further information needed from staff before we
ask the applicant for their wrap-up remarks?
Rountree: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay.
Brown: For the record, Kent Brown, 1500 East Iron Eagle.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Brown: I think the things that I can most easily speak to -- Don Cantrill made a
comment about the southerly boundary and whether there is a berm or -- we have 20
feet of landscaping proposed in there and we can -- our landscape plan does show
trees along there. We haven't showed it bermed at this point. We have our irrigation
pump station that's in this corner and -- but we are proposing to landscape all along
there. That's one of the pathways that we are proposing. We have over 5,000 linear
feet of pathway that runs through this project and that's just a part of it. I think that --
that was his biggest concern -- his biggest question that he had. The letter that was
submitted that had the 90 days, Hubble has felt that they have looked at the market and
have looked at what's going on and want to stand by what Mr. Hubble told you this
evening. I think that that, basically, covers most of the questions. The Fulchers ask for
-- through their -- Penelope Riley spoke about putting a vinyl fence on the north side of
the ditch. I don't know if I'm far enough out of the Nampa-Meridian easement to be able
to put that kind of fence. Nampa-Meridian likes burning their facilities to maintain them.
They generally like something that's fire proof with regards to that. We were proposing
to fence the back of the lots. Your ordinance was having a pathway there, likes the four
foot and, then, the see through on the top or a wrought iron in those locations. We were
intent on complying with that portion of your ordinance. The driveway for Russ
Fulcher's piece -- Russ has his brother to the south of him and his parents to the north
of him on his property. It seems rather difficult to put another pipe crossing across the
ditch to be able to provide that driveway for that. I think it's one and a half or -- it's over
an acre in size parcel that he has. And so we can't question whether that that's the
easiest way to do that when you're on the north side of the ditch, if you had a cross-
access easement, with his parents, that will be allowed an access point, plus the stub
street that's being provided, felt that that adequately addresses that. I believe that that's
all the issues, unless you had some more questions for me.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, questions for the applicant? Yes, Mr. Rountree.
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Rountree: Madam Mayor. I think your initial testimony was an indication that the stub
street to the Fulcher property was kind of up in the air and we have heard from their
representative that it's okay where it is. I guess I just need some confirmation that the
applicant's okay with that.
Brown: We are definitely okay. We are -- that was a condition of approval from ACHD
and we are okay with that requirement.
Rountree: An additional question. There was comment about stubbing in sewer and
water to the adjacent property.
Brown: I don't have any issues with that. The only question I have is if that's -- with
regards to the plan. The sewer is also -- Anna, do you have an overall--
Canning: How about that?
Brown: That works. We have Ten Mile Creek that runs here. Sewer for us is planned
to come through the White Bark property, down Amity Road, and through this property.
There is also a sewer being stubbed here from Messina Meadows that is supposed to
go this direction and over in here. That would be my only difficulty in saying, yeah, I'll
provide them with sewer. It's -- we will follow the master plan and providing the sewer is
as deep as we can go to that point, but I'm not sure if necessarily along Eagle Road if
that is going to provide them with the depth. The depth that the city has given us is that
our entrance street somewhere in here, that we had to be a certain depth and so
everything goes back uphill ~- or downhill from there.
Rountree: Comment on the comment made about the pathway skirting the Scott
Fulcher property as originally proposed.
Brown: That's agreeable also.
Rountree: And summarize, if you can, what you proposed to do to comply with the
perimeter fencing.
Brown: The landscape plan has on it that we are proposing a vinyl fence onto that--
Rountree: It's not a moving picture.
Brown: And my hand shakes that much anyway, so -- we have perimeter fence as
required by Meridian on all our boundaries and, for example, around the Fulcher home,
Scott Fulcher, we would have a solid fence. We have to have a see-through fence
along the pathway. We have to have a see through fence along a pathway that we
would have along our southerly boundary. We have to have see through fences -- this
long pathway that we have here, another 3,600 feet, we have to have see through fence
next to it, according to your ordinance with all of the connections, too.
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De Weerd: Kent, did you talk to Mr. Cantrill -- I understand that fence on the south side
will be shared with cattle. Have you talked with him about the type of fencing?
Brown: The fence would be at the back of the lots and there is an existing wire fence,
but we can definitely talk to him if there are any issues with regards to removing the
existing fence, but I can't see any.
De Weerd: Okay. So, it would be on the back side of the lots and not on the other side
of the pathway?
Brown: That is correct. There is existing wire fences that run along our property line
boundary. I think your ordinance doesn't even allow us to have those kind of fences in
the city. We would have a vinyl with the see through along the back of the lots. And,
then, we have the connection with the micropath, the street -- the street is -- the only
access is to that pathway.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor, just to clarify. The two fences would not be right against
each other, there is like a 20 foot landscape buffer between --
Brown: There is a 20 foot landscaping in between them, yes.
De Weerd: A path.
Zaremba: A path.
Brown: It ends up being the same issue with regards to the Fulchers asking for a fence
on the property line on the -- basically on the other side of the ditch. Our people aren't
going to be on that other side of the Ten Mile Creek at the property line. It very easily
could have been in the middle of the ditch, as Commissioner Zaremba said, but this is
where this parcel line is drawn.
De Weerd: Okay. Since Anna's not here, Mr. Nary, maybe you can answer it. How
have we done this in the past where you have lots lines and, then, a pathway, where
does the city generally prefer the fence? Is it on the property line or -- you know, that's
my recollection.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I believe that is what our requirement
normally is is that it -- if it is on the property boundary, as Mr. Brown stated, that's why
we have that requirement the fence only needs to be visible through it or no more than
four feet high along those pathways. But it's normally on their property boundary.
Brown: I guess I didn't quite follow that, because in some cases that property boundary
runs down the center of the ditch. I know along the same Ten Mile Creek we had the
property on both sides and we only fenced the back of the lot and sense. This isn't
really anything different than we do normally. We don't normally fence on the other
side.
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Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird.
Bird: Now you got me confused.
Brown: I didn't mean to do that, Mr. Bird.
Bird: Where does the people's property line stop? It don't go onto the pathway.
Brown: No, it doesn't.
Bird: Their lot is there, so that's where the fence is.
Brown: Right. At the back of the lot.
Bird: You don't enclose --
Brown: The common area.
Bird: -- the common area. Am I right?
Brown: Right.
Bird: Is that what you said?
Nary: Yeah.
Bird: Oh, I misunderstood you. I'm sorry. I thought you said we was going to close it in
and I'm going --
Brown: I'm glad that I wasn't the only one that was confusing it.
De Weerd: Okay. Questions for the applicant.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Borton.
Borton: I have got an amenity question. I don't know if Mr. Hubble or who wants to
take it. With regards to the amenities and landscaping and --
Brown: The amenities for the subdivision or the amenities for the homes?
Borton: For the homes.
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Brown: That's probably him.
Borton: Okay. Fair enough.
Rountree: Good choice.
De Weerd: If you will, please, state your name for the record.
Hubble: Don Hubble. Hubble Homes.
Borton: Don, I'm looking at my notes and what I think I heard you say -- Madam Mayor,
I've just got a couple of questions on this -- is that your request is that the particular
amenities, architectural, landscaping, fencing with regards to the homes, be imposed
through CC&Rs, as opposed through this process tonight?
Hubble: Now, the wing fences and the landscaping, we will do that through CC&Rs and
other means.
Borton: Okay. And you indicated that would save approximately 4,000 dollars in the
affordability I think you --
Hubble: Roughly 2,400 dollars. Between the front yard landscaping and the wing
fences.
Borton: Okay. The problem that I have got -- and help me through this -- is you
acknowledge that the landscaping and that fencing is an important amenity for the
subdivision, would you agree with that?
Hubble: Oh, absolutely.
Borton: The problem that I have got is on the front end you're selling a home to an
individual at a somewhat more affordable price, 2,500 dollars or so less, only, then, as
soon as they are in the home, they now have to incur that exact same expense that they
were saving to their own homeowners association, assuming the homeowners
association had the available funds to front it, if that homeowner doesn't do it. So, if I
buy the home, I don't put in the landscaping and the side fence, assuming the
association has the funds to, then, spend 2,500 dollars to landscape and fence my
property, I, then, now owe that -- or I'm at least going to get Iiened to the association for
that same sum, so as a homeowner it's a net wash to me. So, then, why not impose
that admittedly valuable amenity on the front end?
Hubble: Well, if the homeowner installs it themselves a lot of times sweat equity will
offset a big part of that expense. They can save, you know, substantial money. And
they might want to design their own landscaping their own way. We sell packages that
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April 1 0, 2007
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are pretty darn standardized and look the same right down the street. So, they could
probably install that themselves for a much reduced price.
Borton: And the architectural amenities through CC&Rs as well, at least what I have -- I
think I'm reading on your response. Is that how that would be?
Hubble: We are asking for the allowance to make any architectural features an option
for the home buyer. To not make any requirements.
Borton: Okay.
Hubble: But they would need to be installed at the time we construct the house.
Borton: Should they elect to do so.
Hubble: Yes.
Borton: Okay. Okay.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I guess just clarification on that point, since the discussion has been about a
development agreement. The report that was submitted, then, from Hubble Homes,
including those types of architectural or design amenities that you were suggesting as
part of the development agreement, what you're saying tonight in your testimony is you
don't -- you're recanting -- you're withdrawing that recommendation.
Hubble: That's correct.
Nary: Okay.
Hubble: I'd like to withdraw.
Nary: Okay.
De Weerd: Any further questions for the applicant? Hearing none, any other staff
comments? If there is nothing further, Council, do you want to close the Public
Hearing?
Canning: Madam Mayor, since there is a pause, I did want to just clarify one thing. In
my earlier presentation I didn't mean to imply that staff was opposed to the stub street to
the Fulcher property. We are in favor of that stub street to the Fulcher property.
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De Weerd: Kent, I guess I do have a question. And I don't know if it's for you or Mr.
Hubble. And you have been around long enough in the planning arena. In the north
Meridian area, as development started to occur up there, we had an open-ended finding
in regards to recommendations or what might come in response to transportation
related issues and the pressures of the traffic and the need for an even -- an evenly
applied impact on the developments that impact the roads. Right now, as Judy Peavey-
Derr had mentioned, we are going through a Blueprint For Good Growth and they are
looking at adequate public facilities. As Ada County Highway District had mentioned,
this is approved, but they have not completed their adequate public facility plan and
these roads are not on the five year plan and I don't even know -- were they on the --
they were on the CIP. They were on the CIP. Are they on the CIP?
Canning: Madam Mayor, I don't have that CIP memorized, but Christie Richardson is
here and she may have a copy of that document available.
De Weerd: Are those roads on the CIP?
Brown: I don't believe so.
De Weerd: Okay. That is--
Brown: I think that that was the testimony of Christie last time.
De Weerd: I believe so, too. That is the crux of my concern. That CIP is a long range
plan and it's not on five year, nor is it on the CIP. So, the concern I have is what do we
do with the roads on there? We heard Mr. Cantrill talk about seven minutes and now it's
20 and we are not just dealing with traffic from our development, we are dealing with
traffic from everyone else's as well and in testimony our great central location bears
some of the cost of that. In the north Meridian plan we had an open-ended finding that
said that that development would agree to any of the recommendations that were
relative to developing roads in that area specific. Would you consider an open-ended
finding that we would ask you to come back once those recommendations are approved
through Ada County Highway District and in a recommendation of how to respond to
that adequate public facilities question?
Brown: I guess I don't know how to answer -- all the gray hair and everything doesn't
really give me an understanding of how to address that request.
De Weerd: My concern is this is 644 homes on -- pouring out onto a road that is not on
a capital improve plan.
Brown: Right.
De Weerd: And you have a seven year build out plan on this.
Brown: Right.
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De Weerd: I do not know how those roads will accommodate those numbers when it's
not even on a capital improvement plan.
Brown: And I think you recall Christie's testimony that what they did find is that it still
doesn't meet the warrants, even with all of the projects. So, what the highway district
did is they held us up to require new traffic counts, so they are current and, then, took
all of the projects approved, not built, approved and built, that are between here and the
interstate and we were still under those warrants.
De Weerd: And, Kent, I understand that and it is testimony on there, but we all know
what the cumulative effect is and in their model they even have recognized is not yet
perfect either. It's trying to find those cumulative impacts and it is trying to fairly apply
the improvement needs across the board, instead of the first one in gets out of most of
the requirements, the last one in gets hit with all of them. And that's what this adequate
public facilities plan is supposed to do ideally. In the ideal world. I know we don't know
what that is and, you know, in my opinion if we can't find some resolution, then, this is
premature, because right now those roads are not set to be improved and that is only
my comment and I don't get to vote unless they tie, so for what it's worth that is my
concern.
Brown: Don, do you want to address that? I don't know that--
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Nary.
Nary: I guess just to muddy the water a little bit before Mr. Hubble answers whether or
not he would be willing to do that, that if you recall, Madam Mayor, when we had those
discussions with north Meridian a couple of years into that, we had the same discussion
with the planning staff on how do we enforce that, how do we track that, how do we
exactly tell all of these developers in these development agreements the bell has rung,
now you have to amend your development agreement and that's the only thing I'm
fearful of in creating an open-ended development agreement like that is the tracking
from the planning staff to the legal department is going to be awfully difficult to identify
specifically at what point do all of those conditions become active and all of those
people need to be notified. The development agreement is to be amended and they are
now subject to those conditions. I'm just afraid that it's going to be problematic for us to
enforce that, although that does seem to be a logical way to resolve the issues as the
future developments of those roadways I'm not certain where we are going to be able to
enforce that.
De Weerd: Well-~ and I appreciate that, Mr. Nary. It's almost the piece of conversation
I wanted to place on the table, then, is either you put something like that in or you say
this is premature, just like we have in any application that comes in in our area of impact
that we have not yet decided on. We have put money -- public money into this plan and
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we put it there because we have a transportation issue that there is no solution in sight
right now and we committed money to that document for these very reasons. And so I
was looking for opportunities to maybe provide an option before we say this needs to be
delayed until a decision is made, because this has a huge impact and 644 homes, in my
opinion, we cannot take lightly. So, maybe I've said enough. Mr. Hubble, that maybe
you want to comment.
Hubble: Madam Mayor, Don Hubble, for the record. This is very similar to a situation
we had with our Charter Pointe where the CIP had not been extended out to that point
yet and our offer at that point was that we would provide enough money to help make
some road improvements if, in fact, they didn't get the CIP. What we could offer right
now is that we will work hard with the highway district to make sure that this is included,
so that the impact fees that are paid here go to improve that part of the roadway when
it's time. This is kind of a last minute thing that had just come through tonight. We
weren't aware of that, because the traffic study didn't point out that we had a problem
there, but I guess I could assure you that we will do everything we can to have that
included and if we need to be a bigger part of the solution, we are willing to do that once
we know what it is.
De Weerd: Okay. Well, I did mention it two weeks ago, that that is a concern of mine
and I did ask one of the Commissioners what is the time frame on this and how can we
work together, because we are going to start seeing more of this and we need to have
an answer to that as many times as I get beat up on transportation and we don't have
too much that we can do in that realm, we do have an obligation to make sure that Ada
County Highway District and this valley have a mechanism to make sure that growth
pays for the needed infrastructure and I'm sure everyone in this room drives on those
roads and it affects the -- even salability of some of these developments. So, I will try
and get off my soap box, but I'm it so many times, because it's the only way I can get
road improvements that it's hard to step off of my soap box.
Hubble: Well, we understand and we want to be part of that solution. I don't want to
stand here today and make a commitment for a lot of money until we understand what
options are available to us.
De Weerd: And we don't know what those are.
Hubble: Right. I can commit to you that we will work in ernest to try and resolve that
with the highway district and with anybody else. And if funding is necessary, we could
probably incorporate something in the later part of our development that we could fund
improvements that will finish off our development and make sure that we are paying our
share.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. I thought I'd make those comments before I asked if you
wanted to close the Public Hearing.
Rountree: Thank you.
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April 1 0, 2007
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De Weerd: Okay.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I would comment that among other concerns expressed, I certainly share
that concern with you. Listening to the public testimony, unfortunately, I agree with
everybody. The difficulty is that, you know, everybody makes a good point and it's easy
to see everybody's point. Some of the points don't agree with each other and that's our
struggle is to kind of sort that out. But the point that the Mayor makes is ACHD is in a
difficult position at the moment. They are putting increasing amounts of their budget
into maintaining 40 to 50 new miles of road every year. So, their maintenance budget
goes up. What they have left over to build new lanes is actually diminishing, because of
some things that happened several years ago in the legislature on impact fees collected
only pay about 40 percent of what it actually takes them to rebuild a roadway that the
impact fee was collected for, which means in the foreseeable future, unless there is
changes in ACHD's funding, they will continue to slip farther and farther behind. And
putting my own interpretation on the point that the Mayor was making, Meridian already
has deficits that we need ACHD to be addressing. To add another one is difficult. Now,
there are things that ACHD is discussing similar to Meridian's Public Works as sewer
and wastewater treatment projects where we are funding in advance big projects and,
then, we charge latecomer fees to hook up -- for people to hook up to a system that has
already been built. ACHD is considering something similar to the -- I believe they are
called limited improvement districts, LIDs, that they would manage separate from their
impact fees ordinance, whereas in this case the developer would actually be required to
make all of the improvements to Eagle that would be needed and, then, be paid back as
other people tried to access Eagle. They have not, I believe at this point, codified that
or made it their ordinance. I can see in the long run our Comprehensive Plan envisions
that this kind of a development will happen in this area. The Comprehensive Plan
doesn't insist that it happen today and I can see that there would be use for this. I mean
we need the variety of housing in Meridian. I do feel, should we come to this, that
whether you call them starter homes or affordable housing, people still need to have
pride in their neighborhood and should this go forward I certainly stick with the front
landscaping being in and the wing fences and a minimum of ten percent architectural
brick, stone, whatever. With the purchaser having the option to make that 20 percent or
30 percent, but not having the option to say no. But, then, it gets back to the point of
can we put that many residences on a street that already is suffering and we don't see
in the near future a quick solution for it and I share the same concern that you do, that I
think this is premature as well. I can see that at sometime in the future this is probably
exactly what will go there. But I feel it's premature as well.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council?
Rountree: I'll save my discussion until after a motion is made.
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April 1 0, 2007
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De Weerd: Okay. Are you making a motion to close the Public Hearing?
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I move that we close the Public Hearing on Items 9 and 10,
Blackrock Castle Green Subdivision.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to close the public hearings on Items 9
and 10. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Discussion?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I, too, tend to agree with your comments about transportation, but my
comments will be more towards some things that I heard from the public. I, too, a long
time ago -- I would say when I had jet black hair, but I never had jet black hair. I was a
recipient of an opportunity to get into affordable housing and it was important and it
brought me to Meridian. Having said that, I heard other things like allow buyers to have
choices and trust us. And it's the particular trust us comment -- and no disrespect to the
maker of the comment, but that's why we are struggling here this evening. We have
been the recipient of a lot of trust us and the recipient of a lot of things that just flat didn't
turn out. We sat through one this evening. It's going to cost somebody in a subdivision
at some future point in time a bunch of money to do something that the developer
should have done. I made a number of comments at the last hearing. I don't see that
my comments will change at this point. I actually see, instead of making progress, that
we have gone backwards. I support the opportunity for choices, but I firmly believe that
we have to have some guidelines and some effort on the part of the applicant to enter
into those guidelines, particularly on a development of this size. We have had recently
developers agree to in their development agreement that they will prepare design
guidelines on or about guidelines that we have established in the city's UDC and further
address comments that were received during the Public Hearing on design details.
Again, my concern is that we have had two hearings, we have had a fair amount of
testimony, we have had 20 minutes to think about it, a decision on this particular
application will rest on the shoulders of future city providers and city councils for the
next 50 plus years. It's large. It wants to go forward with, essentially, no requirements.
Comments made previously about willingness to do certain things have been retracted.
The bottom line is it never came out of my category that I'm not in that big of a hurry to
annex land into the City of Meridian and that's my canned statement. At some point in
time the infrastructure might be in place for transportation to accommodate it. The city's
desire to be in this area with this kind of development might be there, but my choice
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April 10, 2007
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probably this evening at this point, having heard what I have heard, would not be to
support annexation. That gets, again, to choices and that's a choice that the city has,
whether or not to annex, not whether or not the housing is right, not whether or not the
design is right, but whether or not to annex and bring a development into the
community. And at this point I'm not willing to do that.
De Weerd: Thank you. Any other comments from Council? If not, do I have a motion?
And I'm not in that big a hurry right now, but, you know, if you want to do something
tonight --
Rountree: The second hand is not moving on the clock, so -- Madam Mayor, I would
move that we deny the annexation request for Item -- is it eight? Nine. Item 9, AZ 06-
059.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to deny Item 9. Discussion? If there
is no discussion, Mr. Berg.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird.
Bird: You know, to me -- and it's just strictly my own personal thoughts. As we worry
we get on the soap box about annexing it and worrying about the traffic and, then, we
go to the county and try to apply for more impact area south down there so we can take
that in. To me we are talking out of two sides of our face on doing that. I don't know
how you can -- I think we need to -- if you're so worried about that, we start -- we need
to start having impact fees on the owners that sell this property to start with. They are
the ones that are taking the 1,500 dollar an acre that they have paid for and selling it for
up to a couple hundred thousand and, then, them and the developers both can pay and
we get double impact fees. I don't know what the solution is. But if we -- if we do not
want to annex this, then, we better take a look at what we have annexed in the last
month out in that area. I don't like growth any better than anybody else. I have
probably drove in this valley longer than anybody -- than you guys have. I used to drive
to Boise and Nampa and maybe meeting three cars on the old highway. Didn't even
have the freeway in. I don't like it any better, but, you know, it comes with it and if we
don't have -- if we don't want growth, then, let's put a moratorium on it period and stop it.
But if we are not going to do that, which I'm not in favor of, then, we got to be sensible
on the deal. I'm a little disappointed that we had some things that was promised last
week got backed down on us. But as far as the development, I'm not against it.
De Weerd: Mr. Bird, I guess I would like to comment on that. I don't think anyone has
said that we are against growth. I think you can see that over time we have had our
share, but we entered into a study, as was pointed out by one of the people testimony --
testifying and we have committed to that study. We are committed to that study and the
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reason the City of Meridian entered that study was for adequate public facilities and how
we are going to address how we pay for the needed infrastructure to support
development. And that is all I'm saying. I'm not saying not today or not tomorrow, but
I'm saying we need the tools to address this and that's the commitment we made when
we put dollars into that study.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: If I could get a rebuttal on that.
De Weerd: I don't have to recognize you. Anyone else? No. Go ahead.
Bird: Yeah. I'm just talk. You know that. The problem is I don't think anybody has
adopted that study. And, you know, we seem to have a whole bunch of studies, but we
never -- we never implement them. We spend a lot of taxpayer dollars -- we have had
three downtown studies in downtown Meridian traffic studies. I haven't seen a thing
implemented.
De Weerd: Well, you finally adopted it, Mr. Bird.
Bird: What?
De Weerd: The study.
Bird: The Blueprint?
De Weerd: No. The study you just referred to.
Bird: Well, yeah, after the third time and eight years later, but -- so, you know, I'm not --
to be truthful, I'm probably not going to be in favor of that Blueprint For Good Growth. I
don't know. We will see. But that's my theory on studies.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. We do have a motion on the table. Is there anymore
discussion? Mr. Berg, will you, please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, nay; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE NAY.
De Weerd: Okay. Item 10 is -- Mr. Nary, we still need some type of motion; is that
correct?
Nary: Yes, we do.
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April 10. 2007
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De Weerd: Okay. Okay. Item 10. Council?
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I move that we deny Item 10, PP 06-059.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to deny Item 10. Discussion? Mr.
Berg, will you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, nay; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE NAY.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Items 11 and 12 -- Council, do you want to take a five
minute -- I'm going to call a five minute break now.
(Recess.)
Item 11:
Public Hearing: MFP 07-002 Request to Modify site specific
requirements #12 and #13 of the Sond Final Plat for Sond Subdivision
by Dimension Properties - 1155 and 1123 North Black Cat Road:
Item 12:
Public Hearing: VAR 07-004 Request for a Variance to UDC 11-2A-5 to
temporarily allow existing buildings to encroach into the required setbacks
for Sond Subdivision (Lot 4, Block 1 and Lots 3 and 4, Block 3) by
Dimension Properties - 1155 and 1123 North Black Cat Road:
De Weerd: I will reconvene this meeting. I'm sorry, we had to take a break, so -- or I
did. Items 11 and 12 are public hearings on MFP 07-002 and VAR 07-004. I will open
these two public hearings with staff comments.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is the Sond project. The Sond
Modification. It is located west of North Black Cat Road and south of Cherry Lane.
Shown here. The applications before you tonight are a modification of the final plat and
the variance. The applicant is requesting to modify two approved final plat site specific
requirements to allow two existing residences on the site to temporarily remain while the
applicant builds two new homes on different lots within the subdivision. Final plat site
specific requirements numbers 12 and 13 will not allow the city engineers to sign the
plat for this subdivision until all buildings that do not meet setback requirements are
removed. The two existing homes on this property do not meet the R-4 setbacks and
actually encroach into the proposed lot. They are kind of shown here and, then, these
two little diagrams show it more clearly. The applicant is also required to pay for
assessment fees and hook up costs to city services for any existing buildings that are to
remain. Associated with these requested modifications to the approved final plat, the
applicant is also requesting a variance to temporarily allow two existing homes to
encroach into the required setbacks for the R-4 zone. The applicant has stated that
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April 1 0, 2007
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these requests are only temporary in nature and that once they are able to construct
new homes on other lots within the subdivision, that the existing homes will be
completely removed as required. This wasn't covered in the staff report, but, please,
note I'm not aware of a variance ever being temporary in nature. Generally variances,
by definition, run with the land. So, I'm not sure how we achieve a temporary variance.
At this time the applicant is unable to begin construction on the new homes, because
the plat has not yet recorded and that's because the city engineer can't sign it. So, it's
kind of a circle we have got going here. So, the outstanding issues before Council --
staff has recommended denial of these modifications. If the Council decides to move
forward, though, there are a number of specific things that need to be addressed. One
would be restricting the number of building permits released on the site to two until the
existing homes are removed. Setting a one year time limit for the complete removal of
the existing homes and any other buildings that span across the property line. Not
dedicating public utility drainage and irrigation easements on the lot lines being spanned
by the existing homes. Then, prior to the release of the remaining building lot,
submitting a recorded document showing the remaining easements being dedicated.
Requiring surety for the removal of the wells and septic systems and requiring that they
be removed prior issuance of the remaining building permits. And allowing for the
applicant to occupy the two new homes prior the completion of all the required
landscaping for the subdivision, which cannot be completed until the old homes are
removed. But restricting the occupancy of anymore homes until the required
landscaping improvements are complete. And, finally, requiring the applicant to post a
surety for the removal of the old homes. Your cheat sheet notes a couple of other ones
in bold, but I have worked with Christie and those issues are resolved and they were not
in the original staff report, but they are okay. We figured them out. There has been no
additional written testimony since the staff report. The reason staff recommended
denial of these applications is not because we didn't empathize with the plight of the
owners and their desire to just temporarily remain in their homes, but just the mechanics
of trying to accomplish both requests and just the -- you can tell by the list of things that
still need to be addressed, if Council decides to move forward, is fairly lengthy. And in
the unlikely -- and truly unlikely event that their homes don't get completed or for some
reason the existing homes don't get removed, the city is going to be in the unenviable
position of having to kick somebody out of their house and quite literally bulldoze it from
underneath them. So, we really -- you know, again, we don't anticipate that that's going
to be the case, but that's the worst case scenario. So, given those things, staff did
recommend denial and I will answer any questions you may have.
De Weerd: Council, any questions for staff at this time?
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
De Weerd: Okay. Yes.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I have a question on this particular subdivision and I think I
can answer my own question, but at the end of the street that accesses the subdivision
-- and it would be on the westerly end, there is another residence that abuts the cul-de-
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April 10, 2007
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sac. I assume that residence is not on this property, but that residence could access a
public street and it's sitting right on the road right there.
Canning: Yes, sir. The street does stub to that property, as I recall, and the red line is
shown outside of the property line. The property line is, actually, about right there. If I
can hold my hand steady enough. So, I'm not quite sure what -- Council member
Rountree --
Rountree: Old what's his name.
Canning: I'm not quite sure what your question was or what your concern was.
Rountree: I just want to verify that my assumption is correct, that it's outside of this
subdivision and will be dealt with in the future as that property --
Canning: Yes, sir.
Rountree: -- gets annexed.
Canning: Yes.
Rountree: That there might -- there could be potential problems with accessing that
property off of this street, could there not, with ACHD and their setback requirements for
roads that they utilize and take on?
Canning: You mean the distance from the house to the stub street, sir?
Rountree: Yeah. The house is no more than ten feet, I don't think, from the pavement.
I mean it's -- it's right there. I mean it's --
Canning: Sir, I do know that the property, as I recall -- I guess not know, but I'm pretty
sure that the property had an existing easement for that house. They have relinquished
the easement, so I think that that property owner of that house is satisfied that this is an
acceptable exchange for their current easement and the applicant could not -- that that
was correct .~ yes, I'm getting nods that that was correct information.
Rountree: Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions?
Rountree: That's all I have.
De Weerd: Okay. Is the applicant -- if you will, please, state your name and address for
the record.
Sonderegger: For the record Clayn Sonderegger. 1155 North Black Cat Way.
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April 1 0, 2007
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De Weerd: Thank you.
Sonderegger: And I'm not an employee of Hubble Homes.
De Weerd: Thank you. We appreciate that clarification.
Sonderegger: Just real quick. On Karen Thomas's home, the existing easement -- the
road was -- the new road was right over the top of that. It was, basically, in the center
and they had full access. It's a cul-de-sac that -- it's like a bulb. It doesn't really end at
the end, it's made to extend in the future as it goes into Do-Rite's and, you know, where
ever else they go down that way and in talking to them they will probably come before
you probably in the next year or two and develop theirs. That's where they are at. But
they are very appreciative. This is the best road they have ever had. So, just on that.
Just a real brief history in how we got to where we are. When we first sat down with
planning and zoning, probably over a year ago -- probably a year and a half ago, the
very first plan did not include those stub streets. Our hope was just to have this be a
cul-de-sac end and ACHD, because of connectivity, required us to put first the one
going towards the Burt residence and we still hope to block out our existing home
completely out of the subdivision. We wanted to keep that as a separate home and just
go off of Black Cat and we were told that we needed to incorporate that into the
subdivision and so we did so. And for a time -- and, in fact, the first plan that we sat
down with planning they told us we just had to turn the garage around and, then, we
would just have a driveway going in there and we'd still kind of separate it with a vinyl
fence, but we weren't going to tear that home down, we were actually going to keep
both our homes and the Burts. Once those stub streets were required to be able to pay
for that additional infrastructure, we came back -- and I don't know if you recall, we had
a split on there between an R-4 and an R-2. Half of the lots -- the ones basically closer
to Black Cat kind of became a buffer of quarter acre lots with the half acre lots being
further back. You barely see the first one on the upper side and, then, from the rest of
the way back towards the Thomases and Du-Rite nursery, they are all half acre lots.
And so at one time, just -- that home actually stayed, with the understanding that buffer
was there. But the intent has always that we would stay in those homes, get the
permits as quick as we could, build those homes and have those homes removed. At
this point -- and these are pictures as of today -- that we are in the completion process.
We are, basically, down to except for where our home is, of having maybe ten percent
of the landscaping. We have got three-quarters of the buffer in before the house, kind
of disrupted that. We had two driveways, one going to an outbuilding that is no longer
there, that's been demolished, and that was abandoned earlier this year. And, then, we
just abandoned the driveway, so that we could finish landscaping and the swale going
through there and you will see that on the picture that you now have two garage doors
that, basically, go into a landscape area, to show full intent that that house will
disappear as soon as we can move into the new home. We are down to where we just
need final water and sewer inspections. The manholes and valves have been raised
and we are also in the process of having the final asphalt from ACHD and we anticipate
having that as soon as by the end of this week, it's just a matter of cycling the inspectors
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April 10, 2007
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in and out to get that taken care of. We are waiting for the seeding until the irrigation
meter can be installed and that has been scheduled, we just don't have a date for when
that will be in by the water department. As soon as we have that we will seed that, so
that we make sure we have the water supply to have that grow in as quickly as possible
without being -- well, today it wouldn't have scorched, but last week it would have
scorched out there and we would have been in trouble. As we prepared for this meeting
we had a neighborhood meeting, as your requirement for this variance. Only one
person showed up and it was just a curious neighbor, who has since sold his property
off of EI Gato and he was just curious what we were doing, because he was thinking
about possibly developing his five acre parcel and he decided to move instead and that
will be a future -~ future decision. Our request this evening is to be able to stay in our
homes, because of the -- just the hassle and the hard -- I mean, basically, we are
coming to you on bended knee and asking that we not have that inconvenience of
having to move out, move over somewhere else for six months, and, then, just move
back. With that we still have our wells and septics that are operating. We could hook
up the Burts much easier than ours. The sewer line for ours it would be tough to make
that grade and actually we'd have to go clear out the back. The water wouldn't be too
difficult, but we would just as soon not go to that expense in doing that if we are allowed
to keep these homes. Our request is also to not just limit it to two building permits, but
to have as many building permits, except for where these lots are adjacent and to be
able to hold those -- if you want to say hostage or collateral to insure that what we are
'going to do -- I think it comes out to somewhere between two and seven lots, depending
on how you look at it, that could be built and move forward with this project to be able to
-- you know, the waiting list of people that's ready to start those homes and has been
waiting quite some time. Unfortunately, we missed the pave date by about one week
last fall and were just able to pave two weeks ago, because of -- we didn't get a lot of
moisture this year, but we got a lot of freezing and weren't allowed to meet the ACHD <
requirements of 40 degree and rising for quite some time. It's probably one of the
longest nonpaving winters we have had in recent years and we just happened to get
stuck in the middle of it. So, we are more than willing to hold back the adjacent lots.
The one next to us. Obviously, the lot we were on. The Burt's and, then, the two that it
encroaches over. That outbuilding that is shown on that that crosses over two of the
property lines of the Burt's home has also been removed at this point. It was
demolished last week in preparation to clear that part off of there. So, it's only the Burt's
actual house that they are living in and our actual house, so, to me, there is, basically,
five lots that are affected by that, the way I look at it, that we would be more than willing
to hold out of being sold and moving forward, so that we could move this subdivision to
where we'd like to be at this point as we are definitely behind from the winter we had.
Any questions for me?
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: None.
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April 1 0, 2007
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De Weerd: Thank you.
Zaremba: I'm sorry. Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: I'm sorry, Mr. Sonderegger --
Zaremba: I do have a question.
Sonderegger: I get called everything.
Zaremba: I understand that you and your neighbor are developing this property. Are
you in the business of developing?
Sonderegger: Yes.
Zaremba: Oh. Okay. I didn't know that. I just thought maybe you were developing
your own property --
Sonderegger: No. I have done it in the past.
Zaremba: On other properties?
Sonderegger: It's mostly commercial. I'm a commercial contractor in the area.
Benchmark Construction. And so we do this on a regular basis with commercial-type
projects. This is the first residential in this area, but I did come out of the southern
California area where we did numerous communities. More like what Mr. Hubble does,
but in a California setting.
Zaremba: That wasn't quite the answer I was looking for, but -- I mean that was an
honest answer, but I was hoping you would say this is the only development you have
done, because I'm very sympathetic to your personal need to live there, but I'm not too
thrilled about establishing a precedent for developers. We still need to think about it
some more. Thank you for your answer.
De Weerd: Well, let me get to my list and, then, I will open it up. David Bowman signed
up for. Thank you. And Scott Frederickson signed up for.
Frederickson: My name is Scott Frederickson. 4200 West Plum Road, Meridian, Idaho.
I'm with Dimension Properties and one of the developers of the property. Madam Mayor
and Members of the Council, I just wanted to clarify also a couple of other points that --
as we have mentioned in the staff recommendation. Most of the adjustments actually to
what we are requesting could be done with lot line adjustments. Burt's home we could -
- we could adjust with a lot line adjustment and still be within the requirement.
Sondereggers we could do lot line adjustments with the exception of how we encroach
on the -- on the common area. That ends up being the real issue and when we sat
down and we met with staff and we talked about those issues, it was decided at that
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April 10. 2007
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time if we were going to request what we -- what we thought was a variance at that time
was the term that we were -- that we were using, was that we may as well just request a
variance for everything which saves us the time of going back and having to readjust lot
lines after we remove those homes. But as not only the developer, we are also the
builder out in that subdivision. We are the ones that will build the Sonderegger's home,
we are the ones that will build Burt's home. We have a vested interest in making sure
that, number one, that subdivision is done right, that it looks good, that the homes that
are in there are quality homes. These are half acre, quarter acre lots. Our intention all
along was to differentiate ourselves from Corey Borton homes, which are right across
the way, both in the size of the lots, as well as the quality of the homes that we are
wanting to build. I think if you look at the entrance coming in, as well as the
landscaping, we have already taken that step to do that. It is -- it would be remiss of us
to go through the time and the commitment and the money that we put in to this project
to leave those two homes there. Our intention all along was to -- was to build them their
homes and to be able to provide that. We thought that was the understanding that we
had and, then, we came to the final phase and had this glitch. So, with that I just
wanted to clarify a little bit about that and where we are at and what our intentions are,
not only as the developer, but also as the builder of those homes to -- to build quality
homes, to have a very nice subdivision in the City of Meridian and to be able to remove
those homes as quickly as possible, so we can continue marketing that subdivision in a
quality manner. Any questions?
De Weerd: Thank you. Any questions? Okay. Thank you. Is there anyone else who
would like to provide testimony on this application?
L. Sonderegger: I'm Laura Sonderegger. I live at 1155 North Black Cat Road and
Clayn is my husband and I just wanted to clarify his statement to you. He has done
developments, but never for us personally. This is the only property that we have ever
owned and tried to build a new home on and so I just wanted to make sure you realize
you aren't setting a precedent that we are going around buying land and doing this. We
really are just trying to stay in our home and build a nice subdivision for all of Meridian.
People are really excited about what we are doing. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Is there anyone else who would like to provide testimony?
Okay. Thank you. Council?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Borton.
Borton: Mr. Nary, do you have any remarks on -- I think Anna's comments are right on
the money with regard to the variances, temporary variances, and what restrictions are
there and what we are even able to do. What our choices are.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilmember Borton, I mean Mrs.
Canning is right, I mean there is no such thing as a temporary variance. They do run
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with the land. You know, in reading the staff report I think -- I guess the staff frustration
in planning was that maybe some of this could have been resolved at the outset, if that
was discussed with the staff, if that -- those types of things, whether or not it could have
been done through a development agreement or something else, we may have been
able to resolve it. But now we are trying to really fit a very square peg into a really
round hole and it doesn't -- as Councilmember Zaremba stated, I think it does set a
difficult precedent to address in the future to allow it, although I'm kind of stumped on
trying to figure out another alternative than what's being proposed. A temporary
variance was not really what the law allows. You could certainly direct that the variance
has to be relinquished at some point, but there is no way to enforce them to do it, so
that it -- you know, you don't have a means, I guess, other than through a contractual
arrangement that we may be able to fashion something. We don't -- that hasn't been --
they hadn't discussed that previously and whether or not that's an option I just don't
know. I know they are trying to just get this moving. I have driven by this, so I know it's
-- the progress is as those pictures state, but I'm a little stumped at least at the moment
to figure out some way we could either fit it in what's being requested, which I don't think
we can very easily, or if there is a different alternative, which I just at the moment I'm a
little stumped to figure out.
Borton: Thank you.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Rountree: Just a question for counsel. These are variances to our ordinance
requirements?
Nary: Yes.
Rountree: Or request for variances. Do we have such a thing as a waiver?
Canning: No. No, sir.
Rountree: Okay. Just exploring. And a development agreement was mentioned. We,
apparently, don't have a development agreement to amend on this particular--
Canning: No.
Nary: Council member Rountree, I didn't find a development agreement with this
particular parcel, otherwise, I would have suggested amending that.
Canning: There is not one, sir. I did have an idea. We could ask them to submit a lot
line adjustment as mentioned before, but not have them record it, but we could keep it
in case the buildings didn't go away in a timely fashion. Kind of gets to the intent,
maybe. I haven't had time to fully think it out, but it would keep that there, that if we felt
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we needed to actually record the lot line adjustment, we could, but I'm reaching for
straws. Sorry.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Nary.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the only other thing I can think of, Mr.
Grady is not here, I'm not sure Mr. Dolsby feels comfortable -- I mean we don't -- we
aren't real found of some of these -- those letters of credit, but we did have a discussion
earlier about that, but as Mr. Watson stated, it's not an uncommon practice. We do that.
It is -- I don't know the wherewithal of the developer and the applicants here to provide
us a letter of credit. The city's assurance is -- or what the city wants is the houses to be
removed, the fencing to be constructed, that they -- I think what's suggested in the staff
report is some time certain it's going to happen. I don't know if Public Works feels
comfortable or planning that they could provide a letter of credit to assure that those
actions occur. That would be a fairly significant letter of credit. I don't know if they have
the wherewithal to do that. I do agree with Mrs. Canning the problematic issue from the
city is that at some point, worst case scenario were to happen, we would be the people
evicting these folks, but we have a letter of credit that they agreed to it and they agreed
that they posted that money and that credit to demolish those houses. My bigger
concern is they are not the ones living in it.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: My comment would be, if that's a good way to go, the letter of credit really
wouldn't be for anymore money than they are planning to spend anyhow.
Nary: True.
Zaremba: And if -- whether they have got it in their pocket, they certainly have budget
for the end result that we are all looking for.
De Weerd: Okay. It looks like we have additional testimony. If you would like to come
forward and provide that. Clint, did you have a comment? We'd like to give you that
first opportunity to break into this.
Dolsby: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I think that we could look into issuing
a letter of credit, like Mr. Nary has discussed. We could certainly look into that with Mr.
Grady tomorrow and come up with something, if we wanted to go in that direction.
De Weerd: Thank you. If there is anymore testimony, let's get that, and, then, hear the
applicant's final remarks.
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Canning: Madam Mayor, I'll jump in while he's walking up there. On the -- your cheat
sheet and in the staff report they did note several items for the letter of credit, so that is
what is being proposed. If you want to approve this application, we are asking that you
address all of those items and most of them were sureties, which is the same as a letter
of credit.
De Weerd: Thank you. If you would, please, state your name and address.
Bowman: I will. For the record, I'm David Bowman. I live at 5808 North Cape Arago in
Boise. I am one of the developers as well, but it sounds like, just standing up here I'm
already negating my own testimony. The letter of credit is -- I was going to point out
that the letter of credit is actually what we were proposing and we think it would be a
viable solution to not only put teeth into the -- to the document and the agreement
between us and the city to have those removed, you have financial teeth to back up
anything that we would be promising in tearing those out immediately. I was going to
suggest one other option, but I think that the letter of credit is probably the best option,
so I won't even mention my option.
De Weerd: Oh, come on. We dare you.
Bowman: I don't want to go backwards. You have had enough backwards tonight.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Nary.
Nary: In reviewing the staff report, I guess -- and I don't know what Mrs. Canning's
opinion -- if the Council were to grant the final plat modification with those bullet points
as you -- staff has pointed out, I mean is a variance still necessary, if they have modified
the final plat with those condition requirements? Because I think you were also
concerned -- your staff report indicates that they were concerned about the findings for
a variance, but it appears -- at least in my reading of it it appears like they could have
the one without the other, but maybe I'm misreading it, so --
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I don't know what the standard is for
placing a lot line next to a structure, as opposed to placing a structure next to a lot line,
so -- there is a difference. I don't know that if -- it's kind of like when you annex a
nonconforming use, if that gives it validity, because you knew that use was there and
you said it's okay for that use to continue. I don't know if putting a lot line next to a
structure accomplishes the same thing. I think that I would -- I really don't want the
variance approved, because it does run with the land and I think that if there could be
some way to say that you willingly are allowing these lot lines there -- the lot lines are
permanent, but you're willingly allowing them to be underneath structures and adjoining
for the time being, that I would prefer that to having Council approve a variance that
lasts forever. But perhaps Mr. Nary could pontificate on my theory of about placing lot
lines next to structures.
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Nary: If you would have raised it at 8:40 maybe so. But I think in reviewing -- I think in
reviewing the report, it seems to me that if the Council wants to modify the final plat and
these assurances -- I guess my only other suggestion is that we maybe need a week to
work that out and make sure we are all on the same page, especially since Mr. Grady
isn't here, that we feel comfortable that that can be done. But I think the Council would
have the ability to do that modification and direction and not have to grant a variance for
it. But I guess I'd like to make sure we flush that out in the light of day before we just
agree to it tonight and it won't work. I don't know if that timing impacts them for a week,
but I think if we can get together this week we can probably resolve it fairly easily.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: That sounds to me like an excellent suggestion. I would just comment that
my discomfort with the variance is the same as the discomfort with the one that we had
on McMillan that wanted a temporary variance to reduce the landscape buffer for a
short period of time and as Director Canning points out, once you do that it's permanent
and there is no way to track undoing it. So, if there is a better solution, I would be very
much in favor of continuing this for a week while it worked out. I think we are all
sympathetic to the end result that wants to have happen, again, without establishing a
precedent for other people. So, I would support continuing it.
Borton: Madam Mayor--
Canning: Madam--
Borton: Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead, Anna.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, before you move to continue this,
there is -- there is one issue that hasn't -- Council hasn't expressed an opinion on.
There is quite a bit of difference between what staff is proposing as far as number of
building permits to release and what the applicant is proposing and if you could just give
us an idea of which way you may be inclined to land on that issue that would be
appreciated.
De Weerd: Before they continue it? Maybe they want to think about it.
Canning: Okay.
De Weerd: Council, any direction you want to give staff right now? We really thought
this was going to be a short meeting.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I don't -- I wouldn't be opposed to the -- to the lots that are
subject to this and the adjoining lots, but I think freeing up the remainder of the lots that
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wouldn't be impacted by this one way or another would be all right. Plus the surety.
Between that, we ought to be fairly fiscally protected in doing whatever demolition we
might have to do in the future.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird.
Bird: I, for once, would agree a hundred percent with Mr. Rountree.
De Weerd: For once?
Rountree: That's not the first time.
Bird: Probably won't be the last.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: With regards to the surety, in light of earlier discussion, I'd love to see next
week some specific -- as specific as possible figures on the expense for each of the
wells, septics, home removal, et cetera, and if it's a surety letter of credit, perhaps one
and a half times that figure, rounded up at least. If that could be provided as part of the
continuance.
Canning: Ten percent? Madam Mayor and Councilmember Borton, by code the
sureties we collect are 110 percent of the value.
Bird: Yes.
Borton: All right. It's one and a half in court, so -- I like one and a half better. I guess
110, rounded up. All inclusive.
De Weerd: Okay.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I would move that we continue the Public Hearing on MFP 07-002 and VAR
07-004, to our regularly scheduled meeting of April 17th, 2007.
Bird: Second.
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April 10, 2007
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De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to continue these two items. All those
in favor say aye. All ayes. Thank you.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 13:
Item 14:
Public Hearing: AZ 07-003 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 1.0
acres from RI (Ada County) to L-O (Limited Office) and R-8 zones
(Medium Density Residential), for Grau Subdivision by Stanley
Consultants - 4135 West Cherry Lane: Request to be continued to
April 17, 2007
Public Hearing: PP 07-005 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 1
office lot in the proposed L-O zone, and 3 single family residential lots in
the proposed R-8 zone on 1.0 acres, for Grau Subdivision by Stanley
Consultants - 4135 West Cherry Lane: Request to be continued to
April 17, 2007
De Weerd: Okay. Items 13 and 14. I will open these two publiC hearings AZ 07-003
and PP 07-005 --
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: I move we continue Items 13 and 14 regarding Grau Subdivision to our
regularly scheduled meeting of April 17th, 2007.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and second to continue Items 13 and 14. All those
in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 15:
Item 16:
Public Hearing: PP 07-004 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 16
residential lots (proposed to contain 64 multi-family units) and 3 common
lots on 5.7 acres in an L-O zone for Ooubletree Subdivision by Ron
Babneau - 1105 W. Pine Street: Request to be Continued to May 1,
2007 to allow Posting of Property
Public Hearing: CUP 07-002 Request for a Conditional Use Permit
approval to construct a multi-family development consisting of 64 multi-
family dwelling units (4 plexes) on 16 lots in an L-O zone for Doubletree
Subdivision by Ron Babneau - 1105 W. Pine Street: Request to be
Continued to May 1, 2007 to allow Posting of Property
De Weerd: Item 15 and 16 are public hearing PP 07-004 and CUP 07-002. I will open
these two public hearings.
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April 1 0, 2007
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Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I would move we continue Items 15 and 16 to our regularly scheduled
meeting of May 1 st, 2007.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to continue Items 15 and 16 to May
1 st. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 17:
Public Hearing: RZ 07-004 Request for a Rezone of 7.23 acres from R-4
to L-O zone for the property located at 1615 W. 2nd Street for LDS Church
by Bob Niblett, Niblett & Associates Architects - 1615 W. 2nd Street:
De Weerd: Item 17 is a Public Hearing on RZ 07-004. I will open this Public Hearing
with staff comments.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is the LDS project at Cherry and
2nd. The address is 1615 West 2nd Street. And it is located on the west side of Cherry
Lane, about a quarter mile west of Meridian Road. It's located on the south side of
West Cherry Lane. Sorry about that. All right. This is -- the application is for a rezone
and it's to rezone the church property from R-4 to L-O for future expansion of the
church. Churches are prohibited in the R-4 zone and so the use is currently
nonconforming. Right now they are not proposing to increase the square footage, it's
just a request for the rezone application. The Planning and Zoning Commission
recommended approval at their March 15th hearing. Rob Niblett, the applicant's
representative, spoke in favor. No one spoke in opposition, and AI Borton commented
in favor of extending West 4th Street and I will touch on that issue later. The key issues
of discussion by the Commission were the requirement for the applicant to dedicate
right of way and improve West 4th Street prior to occupancy for an expansion of the
church or a change in use of the site. The other issue was rezoning only the northeast
portion of the site and not the portion on the west side adjacent to West 4th Street, so
that West 4th Street could be improved with development of the west portion. So, they
tried to reach some compromise on the extension -- the issue with regard to extending
West 4th Street, but they ended up not making any changes to staff's initial
recommendation. So, obviously, the -- there is an outstanding issue before the City
Council on the part of the applicant and requiring the applicant to dedicate right of way,
improve West 4th Street along the entire west boundary of the site prior to occupancy of
any church expansion or change in use of the property. And that is currently proposed
as part of the development agreement. So, let me go through that in a little more detail
here. We have started to talk about this a little bit a couple weeks ago. Deklan
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Subdivision was this L-shaped property here -- flag-shaped property. And they were
required to be -- they are going to be required to build a 36 foot street section within a
50 foot right of way. So, that will come just to the south ofthis lot. There is currently an
18 foot wide single traffic lane within approximately 25 feet of right of way along the
back side of these homes and along the west side of the church property. The
pavement dead ends approximately right here before it needs to cross this water facility.
Coming down from Cherry, similarly you have 55 foot right of way, but with only one 18
foot wide single traffic lane and that's located adjoining these light office structures. But
they do have the full right of way necessary. But 4th Street ends right at this -- the north
property line of the LDS church. So, the discussion was that not associated with the
rezone application necessarily, but the development agreement would say prior to any
expansion of the church facility that this road would be extended. So, the only missing
gap with the right of way would be this small section here in front of this home. There
has been no additional written testimony since the staff report and I can answer any
questions Council may have.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions? Okay. Would the applicant like to come
forward. I knew you waited here for some reason.
Niblett: Thank you. Madam Mayor and Councilmen. I'd like to submit a drawing as a
part of my testimony, if I could. And--
De Weerd: Sir, I will need to get your name and address, please.
Niblett: Okay. My name is Bob Niblett. I reside at 3656 West Clement Road, Boise,
Idaho. I am an architect and have been hired by the church as their representative on
this issue. We are looking at rezoning -- as Anna mentioned, the church is
nonconforming now. It was built in the 1950s. We are not sure how it got that way. We
are looking at -- the reason we are here is because we were submitting for an addition
and it wasn't until we submitted for an addition that we realized that we were in a
nonconforming zone. This clouded area right here is -- and that hatched area is the
area we are indicating for an addition. That addition is for -- to offer handicap
accessibility and both restrooms and access into the building, to get the bishop's offices,
ecclesiastical leaders on the same level, so that all people can have access to those
spaces. And what we are proposing we feel our more than adequate in our parking
requirement. We have plenty of access. There is four different accesses into the
property. This property -- this addition that we are looking at does not in any way
create, we feel, the need for the improvement of this road along this -- along 4th Street.
We don't feel that there is a rational nexus between what we are doing and the need to
create this road. In fact, we think it -- now, we understand and the church is all for this
public development and the improvement of the road. We understand that it needs to
be developed. It should be developed. What we are questioning is the timing. Is this
the time that it should be done. This is not the only opportunity that the city will have to
force this development, because this is unplatted and when this property here is
developed some day in the future and has to go through the platting process, at that
time they would have the opportunity to require those improvements. And, in fact,
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April 1 0, 2007
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requiring the improvements now gets a little bit ahead of the cart, so to speak, because
there are no stub outs, we would not know what any future development would be, we
would be building a road over those existing utilities and, then, at some point when the
development is proposed, we'd have to go up and tear up the road to get our access
and make those connections. And even if this road -- half a road was improved along
the church property, what would happen is we would have a connection of asphalt -- a
one lane connection of asphalt that connects 4th Street here to this portion and -- but
the road would not be able to be fully open, which would mean you would have two way
traffic trying to access that and probably the city would end up blocking it anyway, so
that you wouldn't have two way -- or two way travel on that single lane of asphalt. So,
we just feel like that when this property is developed, then, there would be a relationship
between the need to develop this road and we just don't see any relationship in what we
are doing and the need to make this improvement at this time. And so we are asking
that the requirement for the -- that we enter into a development agreement as a
condition of rezoning be removed.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Questions for the applicant, Council?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I'm not sure who to direct the question to. The applicant can certainly chime
in, but would it be -- is it something we could do as a condition of the rezone to at least
require dedication of the right of way, but not paving, and, then, add a condition that any
additional structure beyond the current intended addition would require a CUP. I don't
know if that's helpful or getting at -- what I'm looking for is the opportunity later to put the
hammer on the road without forcing it to be built right now.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Councilmember Zaremba, ACHD will not accept unimproved
right of way.
Zaremba: That's a good point. I knew that. I'm sorry. Well, for them to make a
common lot out of it, they would have to go ahead and plat it, so that doesn't help either.
Canning: I'm sorry, Madam Mayor and Councilmember Zaremba, if the right of way is
at an edge of a property adjoining an existing right of way, we don't require them to
actually plat the property to dedicate the right of way. Does that make sense? It's
similar to like if it were on an internal roadway and we required a dedication of right of
way. We don't actually require them to plat that roadway. But that's, the edge of the
property. So, a plat would not be necessary to dedicate the right of way in this instance.
Zaremba: I took my shot.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I would have a question for ACHD. If you're going to have to
be here at 11 :00 o'clock at night, you ought to participate.
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April 1 0, 2007
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Richardson: I need to wake up.
Rountree: Is there any great desire on the part of ACHD to have 4th Street extended?
Richardson: For the record, Christie Richardson, ACHD. 3775 North Adams Street,
Garden City. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilman Rountree, yes,
ACHD would like to see 4th Street extended and improved in the future. I don't see a
great hiccup with the fact that the connection north of this site and just south of Cherry
is narrow. Because we have the right of way I would expect that when this segment of
4th Street abutting this site is improved, we would try to work with that applicant and
provide some funding to complete the street section, the portion off site up to Cherry
Lane, so that we would have two full lanes on that section that's now just 18 foot wide.
So, yes, we do desire that. With rezone applications it's somewhat difficult, because we
usually -- we are not setting conditions, we are just responding to changes in zoning
and so sometimes we don't have the full knowledge, perhaps, of what the application is
for, you know, what the intended rezone might allow for. So, I don't know that I'm in a
position to say that what the applicant has stated here tonight that their intention for this
expansion would create that requirement from the highway district, but it is our intention
and at least among staff's discussion has been our intention that when we see a
development application on that site for any type of expansion, that we would be asking
for full street improvements and right of way dedication along that property.
Rountree: Do I understand you correctly that you already have that portion of the right
of way that's indicated in the graphic and do you also maintain the asphalt paving that's
there?
Richardson: That's correct. This section from Cherry to the north property line of the
church we have the 55 feet of right of way as is indicated here and only the east side is
improved. So, my recommendation is that when this church property is -- when there is
an expansion and should the highway district require a curb, gutter and sidewalk and
right of way dedication here, that we would work with the construction along in here and,
hopefully, we would be able to provide some funding to complete the west side of this
last segment out to Cherry Lane.
Rountree: And you also operate and maintain that 18 foot wide single traffic lane on the
south?
Richardson: That's correct.
Rountree: And there is a need for that access?
Richardson: For connectivity purposes, yes, sir.
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April 1 0, 2007
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Rountree: But currently what connectivity does that provide? It seems -- I guess what
I'm getting at, it seems to me that that's an attractive nuisance and probably really
difficult for the police to patrol.
Richardson: Councilman Rountree, I know we started in a little bit on this discussion
with the Deklan Subdivision and, unfortunately, I just don't know enough above the
history of that street and properties which it serves more on the north end towards the
north property line. That as I mentioned it has been our intention that any expansion on
this property would -- would -- at least staff would recommend improvement.
Rountree: It just appears to me we kind of have a no man's land there. There is parts
of it that aren't particularly well kept. This is an opportunity, maybe, for the adjacent
property owners to make sure the proper barricades are in place and that weeds and
that sort of thing that tend to accumulate in that area are agreed to be maintained and
taken out of there.
Richardson: Councilmember Rountree, if I might just follow up with that. I don't think
it's the highway district's intention at this point to barricade off any segment of this road.
That's typically -- that would require a commission action and something that I couldn't
commit to you this evening.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird.
Bird: Christie, I -- you know, I don't think it's really -- and this has been discussed a
dozen times I think. I don't think it's real -- I don't think we want 4th Street to be a
through street there, because of getting onto Cherry Lane. Right now we serve that one
little commercial sub in there, plus I believe three houses down there on the west side of
4th. But, boy, if you start letting all these others -- they got a good way out down there -
- it comes out there and you have got the good one on 2nd Street there. I don't know.
I'd hate to hit another major intersection there and try to get over to Cherry Lane. If
everybody turned right it would be okay, but they are not, they are going to try to go
across traffic.
Richardson: Madam Mayor, certainly this is sounding to be a bigger issue than just
maybe what happens in the future. But I would certainly, if allowed a couple of weeks,
would be happy to take this back and discuss it amongst staff and at least get a more
concrete answer for you and perhaps some alternatives on 4th Street and work with
your staff to see how it fits into the city's plan. There is certainly no need to dedicate
right of way if we don't need it, but we also need to decide long range what we are going
to do with what's there.
De Weerd: Thank you. Anything further for Christie while she's here? Thank you.
Okay. Council, any other questions? Do you have any other comments?
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April 10. 2007
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Niblett: I just have a last comment here, in all fairness. There is already traffic that
turns ~-
De Weerd: Sir, I'm sorry. Well, we can have you --
Niblett: I'm sorry. There is already traffic that turns across there to access these
commercial things anyway, so in all fairness I don't think that that -- but also in all
fairness I really don't think that we have what we are doing or we are going to propose
really impacts this and we think that this may be developed sometime in the future and
that would be the time to do this. Now, I should -- I need to say before I finish my -- this
last comment is that the church has instructed me that should you not approve our, that
we -- we are asking to pull our -- remove our request for rezone. So, we want to do that
tonight if you're not going to approve our request for taking out the development
agreement. We just think that that's cleaner if it's done tonight, so --
De Weerd: Council, do you have all the questions answered or -- okay.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, if there is no further comments on this Public Hearing, I move
that we close the Public Hearing for Item 17.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to close the Public Hearing. All those
in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we approve the rezoning request for RZ 07-004.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to approve Item 17. Is there any
discussion? Okay. Hearing none, Mr. Berg, will you, please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
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April 1 0, 2007
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Canning: Madam Mayor, I need clarification. Was that with the development
agreement? That's how the project is presented to you currently is with the
development agreement.
Rountree: Yes.
Nary: That one everyone understood.
De Weerd: I guess, Council, you were clear on the motion?
Rountree: That was the intent.
Item 18:
Executive Session per Idaho State Code 67-2345(1)(f) - (to consider
and advise its legal representatives in pending litigation):
De Weerd: Okay. Item 19 is an Executive Session per Idaho State Code 67-2345(1)(f).
I will ask also that Mrs. Canning attend with us. And I would enter a motion to adjourn
into Executive Session.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I move we go into Executive Session per 67-2345(1 )(f).
De Weerd: Okay. Do I have a second?
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. A motion and a second. Mr. Berg, will you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
EXECUTIVE SESSION:
De Weerd: Okay, I would entertain a motion to come out of Executive Session.
Zaremba: So moved.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: All of those in favor.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Motion to adjourn.
Rountree: So moved.
Meridian City Council
April 1 0, 2007
Page 73 of 73
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: All those in favor.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 11 :57 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
APPROVED:
Y DE WEERD
5'/ ( /07
DATE APPROVED