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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2025-09-23 Work Session Meridian City Council Work Session September 23, 2025. A Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 4.31 p.m. Tuesday, September 23, 2025, by Mayor Robert Simison. Members Present: Robert Simison, Luke Cavener, John Overton, Doug Taylor, Anne Little Roberts and Brian Whitlock. Members Absent: Liz Strader. Other Present: Chris Johnson, Bill Nary, Caleb Hood, Brian McClure, Carl Anderson and Warren Stewart. ROLL-CALL ATTENDANCE Liz Strader _X_ Brian Whitlock _X_Anne Little Roberts _X_ John Overton _X_ Doug Taylor _X_Luke Cavener X Mayor Robert E. Simison Simison: Council, we will call this meeting to order. For the record it is September 23rd, 2025, at 4.31 p.m. We will begin this afternoon's work session with roll call attendance. ADOPTION OF AGENDA Simison: Next item up is adoption of the agenda. Cavener: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Cavener. Cavener: Move we adopt the amended agenda as published. Overton: Second. Simison: Have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda as published. Is there any discussion? If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay? The ayes have it and the agenda is agreed to as amended -- as adopted by the amended agenda. MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT. CONSENT AGENDA [Action Item] 1. Approve Minutes of the September 9, 2025 City Council Work Session Meridian City Council Work Session September 23,202 Page 2of31 2. Approve Minutes of the September 9, 2025 City Council Regular Meeting 3. 440 E. Corporate Drive Water Main Easement (ESMT-2025-0116) 4. Orchard Park Lot 1, Pad A, Water Main Easement (ESMT-2025-0085) 5. TM Crossing Subdivision No. 5 Water Main Easement No.1 (ESMT- 2025-0115) 6. Treasure Valley Law Enforcement Childcare Facility Sanitary Sewer and Water Main Easement (ESMT-2025-0113) 7. Final Plat for Mogul Industrial Park Subdivision No. 1 (FP-2025-0024), by The Land Group, generally located at the northwest corner of Black Cat Rd., and 1-84 8. Final Order for Little Creek (MFP-2024-0002), by J-U-B Engineers, located at the southeast corner of N. Locust Grove Rd. and E. Wilson Ln. 9. Final Order for Pollard North (FP-2025-0019) by Brighton Corporation, generally located 1/4 mile west of N. Black Cat Rd. and north of W. Chinden Blvd. 10. Final Order for Skybreak Subdivision No. 4, by Laren Bailey, Conger Group, located in the SE 1/4 of the NW 1/4 of Section 4, Township 2N, Range 1 E, Parcel No. S10404233670 11. First Addendum to Development Agreement (Newkirk East H-2024- 0043) Between City of Meridian and C4 Land LLC for Property Located at 4250 W. Franklin Rd. 12. Approval of Agreement with Billing Document Specialties for Fiscal Year 2026 Postage and Mailing Utility Bills and authorize the Procurement Manager to sign 13. Authorize and Approve Procurement Manager to issue Fiscal Year 2026 Purchase Order on behalf of the Water Department to DuBois Chemicals for Sodium Hypochlorite Chemicals for the Not-to-Exceed amount of $628,000.00 14. Authorize and approve Procurement Manager to issue Fiscal Year 2026 Purchase Order on behalf of the Parks Department to Lawn Co. for Landscape Maintenance for the Not-to-Exceed amount of Q $342,918.00 Meridian City Council Work Session September 23,202 Page 3of31 15. Approval of Purchase Order#26-0013 to The Armored Group, LLC for one BATT-X Armored Vehicle for the Not-To-Exceed Amount of $349,439.00 per GSA Contract #GS-07F-9375A and authorize the Procurement Manager to sign 16. Fiscal Year 2026 Renewal and Amendment of the License Agreement Between Ada County and the Meridian Police Department: October 1, 2025-September 30, 2026 17. Resolution No. 25-2539: A Resolution Establishing the Reappointment of Steven Cory to Seat 4 of the Meridian Solid Waste Advisory Commission; and Providing an Effective Date 18. City of Meridian Financial Report -August 2025 Simison: Next up is the Consent Agenda. Cavener: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Cavener. Cavener: Move we approve the Consent Agenda, for the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest. Overton: Second. Simison: I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda. Is there any discussion? If not all in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay? The ayes have it and the Consent Agenda is agreed to. MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT. ITEMS MOVED FROM THE CONSENT AGENDA [Action Item] Simison: There were no items moved from the Consent Agenda. PROCLAMATIONS 19. Hispanic Heritage Month Proclamation Simison: So, we will move on to proclamations and our first is a proclamation for Hispanic Heritage Month. So, we will go ahead and go down to the podium and I will ask our friends to join us from the -- I want to make sure I -- I get the right -- from the Idaho Hispanic Foundation this evening. So, Council, Mari and I have been talking about this for a while to make this happen and we are -- we are happy to make it happen today and I was sharing this last weekend, there was a little celebration at Meridian City Council Work Session September 23,202 Page 4 of 31 Kleiner Park for those that may have driven by or saw for celebrating Mexican independence, but it's great that we are able to actually do this proclamation for Hispanic Heritage Month. So, I will go ahead and read this and turn it over to Mari and your team, okay? All right. Whereas Hispanics have enriched and shaped our national character with traditions that span centuries, reflecting the multi-ethnic and multi-cultural customs of their communities, while bringing their own distinct and dynamic perspectives to the story of our country and whereas since the United States first celebrated National Hispanic Heritage Week in 1968 under President Lyndon B. Johnson and later a month long celebration in 1988 under President Ronald Reagan, Hispanics have become an integral and thriving part of our diverse community and whereas this month's theme, collective heritage, honoring the past, inspiring the future calls us to embrace the rich traditions, stories and contributions that bind our diverse communities. Through music, art, literature and shared histories we recognize the power of our collective heritage to shape a vibrant and inclusive future for all and whereas in Meridian and across the nation the Hispanic community strengthens cultural, educational, economic and political vitality through leadership, entrepreneurship and cultural events, where families, businesses and organizations -- some gather to celebrate culture and foster growth. Therefore, I'm, Mayor Robert E. Simison, do hereby proclaim September 15th through October 15th, 2025, Hispanic Heritage Month in the City of Meridian encouraged all citizens to honor the rich diversity of the Hispanic community and celebrate the many ways Hispanic community contributes to our nation and society. Dated this 23rd day of September 2025. On behalf of the City of Meridian we are proud to present this proclamation to you tonight. Ramos: Thank you very much, Mayor, City Council. Thank you so much. You know, back in 2000 it was less than four percent of Hispanics in Meridian and now it's about ten percent. So, one in ten people in Meridian are Hispanic. So, yeah, I'm glad we finally made this happen and that we can recognize not just the history of the Hispanic community in Meridian, but the contributions -- the economic contributions and cultural contributions that our community make, because when we learn about each other and we can appreciate our differences that's how we build bridges; right? And unity. Which is what we want more than anything, so -- is to continue to learn about each other and -- and grow together; right? So, thank you so much. Thank you, Mayor. Thank you, City Council. Thank you. DEPARTMENT/ COMMISSION REPORTS [Action Item] 20. Agreement between the City of Meridian and PS Mountain West, LLC for a No Build Covenant on proposed New Access Road Area Simison: Thank you. Okay. With that we will move on to Item 20, which is agreement between the City of Meridian and PS Mountain West, LLC, for a no build covenant on the proposed New Access Road area and turn this over to Mr. Stewart. Stewart: Mr. Mayor, Members -- Members of the Council, tonight we are looking for your guys' approval on a non-build agreement for a portion of land that is associated Meridian City Council Work Session September 23,202 Page 5 of 31 with the 40 acres that we purchased north of the wastewater treatment plant. If you have read the -- the memo you -- this might be a little bit repetitive, but, nevertheless, I will give you a little bit of the background for the audience as well. So, several years ago we purchased about 40 acres north of the wastewater treatment plant. It actually ends up being a bit of a flag lot, it's one big square and, then, a little sliver that runs all the way out 1,200 feet to ten Mile Road that is the access for that parcel. It's the way the farmer gets in and out of there to farm it and, anyway, that access road was right on the northern boundary of an existing storage facility that you may have -- it's been there for a while that's out there on Ten Mile Road. They wanted to expand to the north. They bought the property just north of our access road, but our access road bisected it and they came to us and asked us if we would be willing to consider moving or doing a lot line adjustment -- boundary adjustment and moving our road to their northern boundary and that way theirs can all be contiguous. We did that. That record of survey has already been done and completed. They have now started the development process putting plans together for their storage expansion. The buildings that they want to use and the design that they want to use creates a zero setback on their northern property line, which is our southern boundary of our road. Because of that the fire code requirements are higher if you have a zero setback. It's much more expensive to build those added fire protections in the buildings, so they came and asked the city if we would be willing to consider a no build agreement in our 25 foot wide driveway, because if we are willing to consider that they don't have to go to the expense of adding these very expensive fire code requirements to their buildings. So, we looked through that process, essentially we don't see anything that would impact us. We are still able to put utilities in there. We are still able to use it as an access road and so we said we would be willing, as a Public Works Department, to grant that if the City Council approved. So, that's why we are here tonight is to get your feedback or to get your approval. If you have any questions I'm here to answer them. Simison: Thank you. And, Council, just for the record, we did ask to have this submitted onto the agenda because of no upcoming meetings and I know it is their intention if this is agreed to to try to move this forward before the weather delays them further. Councilman Cavener. Cavener: Mr. Mayor, thanks. Warren, appreciate the -- the memo. Again, from no benefit to the city, but any risk to the city by us doing this? Anything that you are concerned about or the department is concerned about if we were to support this request? Stewart: That's a good question. I don't think there is anything that would impact our ability to do wastewater operations on the parcel that we bought and that kind of thing. The only thing I think that you would have to look at is, obviously, any kind of an easement like this is an encumbrance on the property. Cavener: Yeah. Meridian City Council Work Session September 23,202 Page 6 of 31 Stewart: If we eventually -- well, when the -- the 40 acre -- the main 40 acre parcel develops it will probably have other accesses to the west and to the north and other ways that we can obtain access. I don't know if the city is ever going to want to dispose of this 25 foot, 1,200 foot long -- or 25 foot wide, 1,200 foot long piece, but it will be less desirable I suppose to anybody who might be interested in it if it's got this easement across it. I don't know what the likelihood of that is. May never come to fruition. But that is one potential impact. Little Roberts: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Council Woman Little Roberts. Little Roberts: Mr. Mayor. Warren, is there any other property? We are the only property that it accesses; right? There is not an opportunity for anything else to ever need access on that road or need it for any other reason? Stewart: That is correct. It's -- it's the city's access road. It doesn't provide access to anybody else. Cavener: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Cavener. Cavener: Warren, is this a case that you were asked to bring this forth or is this something that the department is recommending we approve? Stewart: We were asked by the consultant to consider this. We did. We looked at it. We couldn't see any, you know, real scary reason why we shouldn't do this. It's basically us trying to be a good neighbor and -- and try and help this -- this developer out. Cavener: All right. Mr. -- Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Cavener. Cavener: Warren or Kurt, do -- are you looking for action on this tonight? Are you looking for some consensus to bring that approval of an agreement back to us? How -- how -- how do you -- how would you like to see this play out I guess? Starman: Mr. Mayor, Council President Cavener, the request is to approve the agreement and authorize the Mayor to sign. Cavener: Okay. Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Cavener. Meridian City Council Work Session September 23,202 Page 7of31 Cavener: Council, I -- I think I'm generally in support of this. I always have the tendency, right, to -- to worry about the what ifs. We were -- some of us were at a conference today and they talked about Gen-Xers and their suspicions about all things that they don't fully understand. I think that's probably where I'm sitting today. However, if the -- if the staff thinks this is appropriate and they are recommending it, I -- I'm happy to be in a -- in approval of it and unless there is any other comments I'm happy to make a motion. All right. Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Cavener. Cavener: I move that we approve the agreement between the City of Meridian and PS Mountain West, LLC, for a no build covenant on the proposed new access road and for the Mayor to sign that contract and the clerk to attest. Overton: Second. Simison: Have a motion and a second to approve Item 20. Is there discussion? If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay? The ayes have it and the item is agreed to. MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT. Cavener: Thanks, Warren. Appreciate it. 21. Destination Downtown Discussion Simison: Council, next we will move on to Item 21, which is a continuation of our Destination Downtown discussion from last month. Didn't know who is going to lead off based upon the memo that was there. If that was our side, their side, consultant side. Cavener: Well, all this -- all one team. Hood: So, Mr. Mayor, Council, I can -- I can kick it off real quick, as Mr. Danley gets squared away there. So, we did meet with Chris and Ashley here a couple weeks ago, three weeks ago maybe even now and Mr. Danley did put together a majority of the memo that you found in your packet, but, again, we have been consulted and working together on the framework part of this conversation. I don't really have a speaking part other than this right now, but I will -- and Brian's here as well -- stand for questions and kind of depending on where the dialogue goes we are prepared to hopefully address questions and concerns as they arise. But I will let Chris kind of run through the memo and the framework that we have kind of co-developed, but I'm not -- I'm not trying to take credit for it. It is largely MDC through their consultant. Simison: Okay. Well, with that, Chris, this is all on your shoulders. Meridian City Council Work Session September 23,202 Page 8of31 Danley: Thank you, Mr. Mayor and Council. It's good to see you again. I took up residence up in one of the offices. I figured it would be easier with as often as I'm here. Hopefully that's okay. Aaron Qualls is online as well. I just had him -- he -- just as a reminder, he and Bill Grimes, who were part of the SCJ Alliance team, who was a sub consultant to us, developed some of the design standards and contributed to many other parts of the plan. So, just in case we have some specific questions that come up he is available with us as well. So, I'm going to make this fairly brief. I think Caleb hit it on the head. I just want to advance a few things here really, but, again, kind of quick. So, I want to share with you just the results of the conversation that we did have, a very fruitful conversation with staff, myself and -- and Ashley Squyres were in attendance to that and we will get into some of the details there a little bit. A little bit of the direction. A lot of it about the direction of what that conversation was, because it was a result of our last meeting here and what you all were wanting to see and, then, ultimately, where can and what are we looking to do from this point? So, I just covered this stuff. I don't think I need to touch on it again. But the good news is I think we had a very good dialogue and -- and came to I think at least the framework at this point of how can this move forward. So, a little bit of background. I think you have seen some of these things in the past, but just to kind of table set, again we have a lot of different terminology and geographies so to speak. We have that traditional city core that's codified in your -- in your development code. We know that we have the neighborhood area. We have talked a lot about the railroad and -- and obvious -- obviously this overlay of Old Town. So, there is all these different terms and phrases that are out there that have various meanings. Some of them very specific with respect to the code, design standards and so on, others, zoning code terminology and so forth, but as a result of our effort with -- with you all helping out especially, this is that geography of what we are kind of considering and this is -- I'm going to muddy it again, the downtown -- within down -- Destination Downtown. So, reminding us that Destination Downtown overall goes from the freeway to Fairview and actually a little bit above. But in terms of refining the core of downtown, if you will, this is generally where that has landed as a result of all of the different public involvement conversations and -- and -- and the stakeholder engagement and so on and so forth. So, nothing -- nothing new there. Other goals here -- fostering in-fill with the neighborhood, but, obviously, in certainly trying to respect what already is there. I think we have talked quite a bit about that. We haven't quite got yet to the fun and the experiential part that's in the plan that we will get to. But that really was that focus in that TCC-1 of how do we make this an even more thriving place than what it's become over the years. So, again, some of those things -- as well as honoring history. We talked last time about the objective of trying to go a little more vertical along the rail corridor and I was just last week -- I guess I should mention this. I was just in a community last week doing work outside of Sacramento and took pictures thinking exactly of Meridian. A little bit different in some of the setting, but pathway -- they had a couple -- in this instance some other things. It wasn't quite a railroad, but pathway, dining, vertical buildings, setting very similar to kind of how we discussed in Destination Downtown and a whole lot of people enjoying their evening on a Tuesday night. So, certainly, again, sort of illustrative of what the objective here is. And, then, preparing for a potential shift and of -- of industrial. It might not happen, but it might very well happen and we know that there is a -- a chance that some of our historic Meridian City Council Work Session September 23,202 Page 9 of 31 industrial partners may say, hey, we think we need to move, because we need more space or we need to do something that's a little bit different. They might not. We don't know that. But it would be -- I think we would be remiss if we didn't at least try to think ahead in a plan and -- and anticipate that that might actually happen. So, all of those come together and ultimately what do they do? They spell an overlay. That's the -- the general thought that came out of the dialogue between us and staff, that that would be the preferred path moving forward on how to get all of this together and working collaboratively between the city's effort and MDC's effort and, of course, all the -- all the private property owners and so forth and ACHD as well. So, what are those overlay steps? You know them. I don't think that I need to hit this too much, but just, again, as a little bit of a -- sort of level set. Starts off potentially with -- it needs certainly to be a directive from you all. That's clear first and foremost. But, then, that process could begin. It's working with staff and your planning commission. That is their role is to do -- at least do some of the things like this. Getting into civic engagement, getting out there and making sure that we do due diligence by getting the citizens involved. I -- I know that we have done that through Destination Downtown, but in order to fulfill the overlay requirement it has to be done again and should be done just to make sure that it's robust, supported and ultimately you have the public willing and wanting this action to take forward. Joint meeting would take place between you and the Commission, making sure that everything is sort of ironed out, questions are answered, policies are -- are finalized and, then, ultimately, public hearing before moving forward hopefully to adoption. I'm moving through this quickly, just because I don't think you need me to belabor that point. Other things that would come from that. Then we would get into that design standard component. Now, we are getting into the details, right, the direction so to speak to the development community. We have had some of that dialogue already. You have seen some of that, but it would -- it would, then, really move forward as part of that overlay and it would include some of these other areas. Some of them might be lightly touched, some of them may be a little more touched, it depends on preference and how much we want to sort of steer the -- the ship, so to speak, when it comes to future developments in that overall overlay area. But that would be forthcoming and the objective of those standards certainly are here, streamlined, predictable and so forth. I think we have kind of touched on this. Again, I don't know too much, but -- well, no, I guess we didn't. So, one question that we had -- there is three main things we need to get figured out. Overlay, getting into the specific of the design standards and, then, ultimately it's whether there are -- are they guidelines or are they standards and I think you all know the differences there, but just to make sure we would want to make certain that whatever is flushed out is clear in one way or another. It could involve the possibility of a design review committee, which could be your -- your P&Z, it could be a separate commission altogether -- or committee altogether, but those are the kind of things that need to make their way out of this overall process. But it starts with that -- that overlay. And, then, the Architectural Standards Manual. So, I'm -- let me take a step back. I missed something. I apologize. Overlay, design standards or guidance ASM. Those are the three big ones that we are -- that we are talking about. So, then, the ASM gets into the specifics. What are -- what are these things looking like; right? You know what that looks like for you, but it would require potentially a new section that covers this new overlay district and gives further illustration to what the objective is. So, Meridian City Council Work Session September 23,202 Page 10 of 31 that's that bread crumbs, so to speak, on what this would look like. And, then, ultimately at the end of the day here is where we are. Action steps. Hopefully we have answered some of the questions. We have I think a good agreement in terms of that framework, just like you asked about three and a half weeks ago and move forward with -- with that and, then, other things that need to come forward is we are looking forward to having a future discussion on connections on the transportation side. We have not broached that subject yet and, then, some of the other things. But that -- that -- that remains to be seen of when that occurs. First and foremost, though, tonight has to do with the decision on an overlay and moving forward. Went through that pretty quick. I don't know if Caleb or Brian you have anything you want to add. I will just add real quick. They both should get kudos to -- from all of you. Very helpful. Very, very instrumental in development of how this would go. I knew we would mess it up. I would mess it up. And they were the bright ones to straighten us out and get us on the right path. So, appreciate their help. Simison: Thank you. Brian, Caleb, anything to add? Hood: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of Council. At this time, like I said, kind of in my opening remarks, kind of wherever you want to take it. I think -- I don't disagree with anything that Chris just said, but we have some finer points on some things depending on where this -- this conversation goes. Simison: Maybe one question. Just outline the timeline -- the timeline time frame to get to the end point of all this from your perspective. We can walk and chew gum at the same time, but what's the reality? Hood: Yeah. Mr. Mayor, we -- we actually haven't gotten that far in the development of this. You know, I -- I think to do it right it is going to take some time. We aren't talking about having -- certainly if you will all of even what Chris just laid out, you know, changing our codes and the architectural standards manual and going through public hearing processes a few months just in and of itself and we haven't -- although we have a foundation in the Destination Downtown, we haven't really vetted any of those potential standards or guidelines through a process yet. So, if I'm ballparking something probably a year'ish I would think. Somewhere in there. Simison: Council, questions? Cavener: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Cavener. Cavener: Chris, I want to begin because, I'm -- I'm not going to come -- I'm going to come across as critical. I'm not trying to be critical. I -- I appreciate the presentation. My question is this: By taking some of these recommendations, establishing an overlay, implementing standards or suggestions how we want to -- don't we inevitably trade away the ability for the free market to kind of drive development in downtown? Aren't Meridian City Council Work Session September 23,202 Page 11 of 31 we saying it has to fit in this box to be built here? And I guess what has been sitting in the back of my head is are we -- are we shooting ourselves in the foot to encourage development or redevelopment as kind of your previous presentations by saying it has to really fit within this kind of framework and -- and help me understand what we are gaining by essentially limiting that ability. Danley: Sure. Mr. Mayor, Commissioner Cavener, so I would remind a couple of things. Part of like, for example, with the design standards conversation was because you almost had a pink building; right? And that was free market that was knocking on your door. I would say that we oftentimes through incentivization, right, we have -- we throw money at some of the projects to help get them going. That's not entirely free market either. So, there is oftentimes in our code even incentives that we use to try to entice the types of things that we are looking for. So, I would say that that can be done in a structured and creative way that doesn't trample on the types of things that you are talking about, still allow a lot of that sort of desires and free market sort of approaches that people think are best. The markets change. Office space, for example, is not what it used to be 20 years ago. But residential is beyond needed; right? So, we have -- we have in that regard. I don't think that there is any expectation that what comes from an overlay in the -- in the design standards that would generate from it are meant to be overly onerous. Certainly not. But they are trying to at least mold a bit what we are trying to get in the downtown environment. Right now your two tallest buildings are the netting at Top -- Top Golf and Scheels. Not in downtown; right? And -- and so here you have, for example, this incredible pathway that's worked -- you guys have worked so hard to try to make happen along this railroad and it's happening. It's being built. So, how do we capture some of that energy and -- and, hopefully, again, begin the molding process of what ultimately is codified in this, at least as of now Destination Downtown and what we heard from the public, who have definitely said they want to continue to see downtown be, you know, a vibrant place to live, work and -- and to recreate. Cavener: Mr. Mayor, follow up if I may. Simison: Councilman Cavener. Cavener: Chris, this question is not meant to be flippant, but it may come across that way. What's the problem if we have a pink building in downtown? Danley: I can't answer that. That wasn't my call. We were asked to answer that question, though, and that question was that there were a lot of people who were -- I -- I guess I will use the word offended for a lack of a better term -- that a pink building was coming and that the desire was to not see that come about and so there is other parts of it, for example. I -- we heard about last time, the honoring of history. Well, how do we do that? How do we do that, at the same time allow a hundred percent free market approaches? I don't think you can, because if we are trying to ensure that we honor that history, well, then, that means we need to have some rules, some standards that at least get something developed that does honor that, while still allowing, you know, that freedom of new things. Not everything can look in terms of the oldness of things -- Meridian City Council Work Session September 23,202 Page 12 of 31 materials can cost -- I was just in Galveston, Texas. Talk about historic preservation. It's one of the oldest cities in America. Their preservation goes so far that if you change a window it actually has to be a window from when that was built. Imagine finding that; right? That's how hard and onerous those standards are. But there is an example I think of this healthy discussion that we are having is -- is that rub. I don't know if I wholly answered that, but -- Cavener: I -- I value your perspective. So, it -- Danley: Yeah. Cavener: -- in that sense it is helpful. I just -- I think that's the thing that I continue to wrestle with is what is the city's role in guiding some of this and is it to prevent something that -- again, Luke's subjective perspective -- we want to prevent something that Luke doesn't like versus making sure that we are making the appropriate land use decisions for our downtown in the future. Danley: And I -- and I guess I would just add on to that. This isn't new; right? You have a Comprehensive Plan that spells out what that vision looks like throughout the city. You have design standards and a code and the ACS -- or I keep saying ACSM. It's my former personal trainer day. Sorry. ASM manual that gets very specific on the types of textures and colors and angles and features that are allowed, whether it's in downtown or throughout the rest of Meridian. So, I don't see this as necessarily being something that's new. If anything I think hopefully it's codifying the -- the multiple -- in some cases maybe even competing objectives of the geography that we are talking about. How do they work together in a cohesive way? And I think that's really what the -- the intention is here. I don't know. I should ask -- Aaron, do you -- you are still online I hope. Hopefully. I don't know if you have anything -- to put you on the spot here, but if you have anything to add this would be time to add it. Qualls: Yes. Thank you, Chris, and thank you, Mayor and Council. It's a really important question to ask and -- and my opinion it -- it really should be asked throughout the process of -- of how this code ultimately may shape. In the draft, you know, first version standards that we have started thinking about, in some areas there is relief and in others there is requirements and to Chris' point, it really was crafted based on existing goals and policies in the comp plan, a strategic plan, historic preservation plan and other documents that we reviewed -- policy documents before coming up with these draft standards and in terms of subjectivity -- and I can tell you working with developers and having processed a lot of applications on behalf of cities by developers, predictability is really important and crucial and -- and that's kind of where the initial draft really tried to address, is there is predictable standards, some there is relief, some requirements, but there is also relief valves. If you can't fit into this box there is a process for relief. So, that's -- that's where we have kind of started, but as this goes through I think those are really good questions to keep asking. So, thank you. Taylor: Mr. Mayor? Meridian City Council Work Session September 23,202 Page 13 of 31 Simison: Councilman Taylor. Taylor: Chris, just a quick question and this might be helpful for all of us on Council when we are talking about the overlay. We are kind of in the middle of a series of workshop discussions about Destination Downtown, different topics. You know, we did our second topic with design standards and, then, we have come back here and we are talking about the idea of an overlay, kind of working with staff. Is it -- are we suggesting that the Destination Downtown document that's been put together by MDC, that that information is -- is -- what we are hoping to get out of it is potentially an overlay as sort of the end result here or are we talking about just design standards only? I'm just trying to make sure I'm understanding. Are we design standards or the whole picture of the Destination Downtown work? Danley: Right. Mr. Mayor and Councilman Taylor, so good question and I would say there is moving parts to this, that in terms of the geography that we are discussing here today and what these different components -- again, Old Town, TCC-1, et cetera, et cetera. It is the implementation of that vision that is within Destination Downtown as of now. That as a -- again as a discussion with staff, the recommendation being the mechanism to make this happen, to make this a reality and, again, sort of get a cohesive vision for that area is through an overlay and ultimately to the design standards. How much the design standards get into the detail based on the different areas -- again residential or -- or what have you, that still remains to be seen, but without those mechanisms all we have is a document that is essentially a visionary document. So, that's part of it. The other part is the rest of the areas and the subjects in the document that are not only about this area, whether it's the parking discussion that we had right off the bat, whether it's some of the connections that we proposed that are outside of this particular geography, future roadways and things of that nature that might come along with development, I -- you know, again, the human experience thing, which I think is the fun part of -- of this plan and other things that are in -- in that document. So, there is different elements to it. This is one of them and it's the heart of the downtown area. Taylor: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Taylor. Taylor: Yeah. Thank you. That's -- that is helpful. You mentioned standards versus guidelines a little bit and this might be a question even for staff to maybe weigh in after -- after you, Chris, but I think -- it seems obvious by the definition of the word that standards is a much higher bar than guidelines. I also -- thinking about what Council President Cavener said with respect to the private market and trying to control too much of what it is. So, do you think that you can achieve what you have been working on with MDC and the vision for what, you know, downtown and Old Town could kind of look like with guidelines or do you think that it's really important that we have established standards? Meridian City Council Work Session September 23,202 Page 14 of 31 Danley: Mr. Mayor, Commissioner -- or Council Member, I -- I think the answer is probably somewhere in the middle, to be honest with you, and I'm not trying to be coy about that, but I do think it's legitimate. You have design standards now; right? So, you are already trying to get a certain vision to happen, but it's in a certain geography. So, I think that the intent is still there to spread that geography a bit and to ultimately try to get something that is in the face and in -- in the vision of what is codified and developed through standards. Having said that, I do think there is a place for guidelines and I think it's definitely a place -- that's why a design review committee, for example, could be established, because you could have either empowering your own Planning and Zoning Commission or a separate entity altogether to make those kinds of decisions. So, when they are -- they are confronted with -- well, here is what the guidelines say or here is what the standards say and here is where the variability lies, what say you? Well, now you have a group of people, whoever that might be, experts, you know, architects, landscape architects, whoever they might be, to get into that detail and to give the best direction to the developer on behalf of the city. So, I think it's -- it's somewhere in there. Cavener: Curious if city staff have any thoughts about it. Hood: Yeah. Mr. Mayor, I -- I guess my -- I think it's somewhere about what -- what -- what Chris is saying there. I think it -- it's probably going to be a combination. Some of those elements may be more like standards. Relief valve I think was mentioned before. But I think there are some principles that will probably be more like standards, if not standards. Like thou shalt. We don't really want a whole bunch of flexibility, because it's core and central to what we are trying to achieve downtown and other things that are more, hey, we -- we really hope you can and we encourage you and maybe somehow even come alongside you to get some other things that are more of the guidelines. I don't see it being so rigid where there is a ton of those things that are standards that we don't have some flexibility on, but there probably are going to be some where -- where it's -- it really is more sticks than carrots or standards more than guidelines. But I think a lot of this is going to be more visionary and we encourage you to do things. Again, I don't -- I think the -- the -- the initial side of -- of the standards is not going to be a lengthy thing, but build two lines, you know, surface parking lots, those types of things are really trying to discourage as much as possible through some type of a -- of a standard, you know, pedestrian ways along streets and those things where we really don't want to vary too terribly much or you lose the vision. But, again, even on the back end, having a -- whether it's our Planning and Zoning Commission or another group that are -- that can review these applications, say, hey, the intent still being met with what they are proposing. Yeah, still TBD on a lot of that, but I think I get a -- a general sense for Meridian and -- and we aren't going to -- we want -- we want creativity still; right? We aren't -- I don't think this is just, you know, here is what we want and you -- you -- you give us what we want, but there are -- there are some -- we are not trying to put you in a box, but there are some things. I don't know that we are going to exclude pink buildings. I don't see -- I don't see us going there with that. But there are going to be some things that -- TBD a little bit on what those things are that are more standard like. Taylor: Mr. Mayor? Meridian City Council Work Session September 23,202 Page 15 of 31 Simison: Councilman Taylor. Taylor: Quick follow up. This is maybe more of a question for staff. Last time we redid the Comprehensive Plan, adopted -- was it 2020, 2019, and that process started a year or two before that. So, we are -- you know, probably within the next few years it would be reasonable to reconsider when we want to reevaluate the Comprehensive Plan. Does it make -- is it helpful when we get to that point, whenever that is, I would think sooner than later, to have an over -- we do all this work, we create an overlay, does that feed easily into the Comprehensive Plan discussion like we have -- we have just done a lot of the work already for that? Or does it make sense to say this conversation should happen when we do the Comprehensive Plan. Simison: And maybe if I could piggyback on that conversation a little bit, just looking -- what happens to the underlying components if we do an overlay, what -- what wins if -- If you have a parking standard and this new parking standard gets set, but everything else remains the same in that overlay, how exactly is the -- what wins and losses and is it only in things that are addressed directly, everything else remains the same? Hood: So, Mr. Mayor, I will -- I will try to address a lot of that. So, with -- with the overlay -- essentially the overlay would trump any -- a lot of your underlying zoning code requirements; right? So, it's a higher level of regulation on top of -- your underlying entitlements, if you will, in the base zoning district, still prevail though. You can still put in multi-family or office or commercial or whatever. It really doesn't address those types of things with an overlay. But, again, it would trump any -- not conflicting regulations, but it -- where there is ambiguity there, the overlay district should address them and that is what would, again, trump or -- or prevail in -- in those situations. I -- I don't know if that fully answers your question. I'm going to go to question -- the first question before I -- I totally forget. I think -- my opinion, yes, we are -- we need to do probably some level of an update to our Comprehensive Plan. I -- I -- those, typically, through are more for our community to -- to -- to come alongside. This effort I think is a little more we want some professionals to give us the technical details of how we get there. If Council is not sure if our vision for downtown is solid, you know, look at the Destination Downtown -- if we want to do more outreach for downtown with that, then, I would say press pause on this to get that first. But this effort really isn't going to be, you know, the general populace. Stakeholders, yes. But we need -- we need architects, we need developers, we need people that really understand how to get us there, not what -- not so much visionary, it's what should those -- again standards be, versus principles, versus guidelines. I need -- I -- I got to dig a little deeper. Again, if you are questioning -- if, you know, our community thinks that -- what the vision for downtown is stale, then, let's do that first and press pause on this effort. But I think -- I don't really see our -- our vision for downtown changing that much when we do the comp plan update to affect this effort if we move forward with it. Overton: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Overton. Meridian City Council Work Session September 23,202 Page 16 of 31 Overton: It sounds like I'm going to beat a dead horse here. Just -- Chris and staff, we have design standards now for these areas, TCC-1, TCC-2, and we have existing businesses that operate in those areas. If we approve an overlay -- and this is where I'm -- I'm -- I'm probably in the same concern, whether it's guidelines or standards, at what point does it trigger the new overlay if someone in an existing business wants to do a simple remodel or addition to their business, not a complete redevelopment, at what point does it trigger this new overlay and force an existing business to completely change? McClure: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Overton, so standards are -- standards and guidelines, just backing up a little bit, are -- standards are prescriptive and guidelines are subjective. They get at the same thing. One not being any higher or lower than the other one. One's just usually measurable and one's more -- I think this, you think that, we will meet somewhere in between, which causes a lot of arguments. The city went to standards in 2015, because it created more clear and consistent decision making. Whereas before we had a design guideline manual that was -- if you had one staff person reviewing it you get one answer, if you have another staff person reviewing it you get another answer. It was very inconsistent. So, we were trying to improve that with standards. So, once again, not necessarily higher or lower, it's one's measurable. The problem we have in an area like downtown now is that the standards are -- the standards manual, the adopted one, is based off of zoning. So, if you have -- you can have one building apply -- follow one set of standards and, then, have another building right next door follow a completely different set of standards. So, there is no consistency between how some of the current standards are applied. An overlay, again, not necessarily more or less onerous, would apply the same standards to all the buildings within an area, rather than being entirely based off of the zoning, which can be, you know, one building one thing, one building another thing and it just -- it creates -- it's a very hodgepodge in terms of application of guidelines and standards. So, the intent behind the overlay is to create some uniformity and consistency in applications of standards, not necessarily to be any more or less restringent, it's just -- we have a downtown vision and we want to apply something consistent to that area. Hopefully that helps. Overton: Mr. Mayor, follow up. Simison: Councilman Overton. Overton: That helps a little. So, my base question is if they are a business downtown right now and they want to redevelop or they want to remodel or they want to have an addition, there is a certain standard in place. If we allow this overlay to come in that same business, then, has to meet the new standards to do any of those that I just mentioned; is that correct? McClure: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Overton, it could be. It doesn't have to be. So, some of the suggestions in Destination Downtown were to provide some requirements for thresholds -- or -- or want freebies, so, you know, one -- one -- one we -- no big deal. Meridian City Council Work Session September 23,202 Page 17 of 31 The next one up to a certain area and, then, yeah, we have had enough of this hazardous waste, we are going to require you to just do something different. But most of its intention -- most of the intention is on design principles, not necessarily use. The underlying -- like -- for the underlying use is generally preserved, unless they do a rezone. So, the intent with a lot of this is to encourage people to do a rezone. It wouldn't force a rezone though and as long as they don't do a rezone, if they want to do something that isn't necessarily preferred and outside of designed standards, you know, look and feel of the building, they still allow it to continue -- they would still be allowed to continue operating as they are now. It's look and feel. Danley: It's like -- if I can, I think Aaron online would love to -- he has definitely got some things I think that would be helpful to this discussion. Aaron, do you want to hop in? Qualls: Thank you, Chris. Thank you. That's a really good question to ask and I -- that is all to be determined, you know, over the next year or so of workshops, for you planning commission and this body. But just to offer that in our draft standards report, just a starting point for conversations, we did consider that and one thing that we provided for was that structural expansions of existing buildings where 50 percent or more of cubic space is proposed, the building must be brought into compliance with all standards of this chapter. So, that's -- so, when you more than double the size of the building is just one idea of when those standards will kick in for existing buildings, if that answers your question. So, a threshold, right, that could be established to say -- to get to your exact point. Hey, there is -- this parcel has room to grow; right? And so recognizing that, so what -- what can that look like? But even an expansion, then, you start to get into other things, like the parking discussion; right? Because then you get too far in expansion and, then, we -- we are playing whack-a-mole here, so it ends up where we end up infringing on another part of an already existing requirement of code. So, it depends. Downtowns are -- are interesting like that. And -- and I would just add if I can a couple quick points. So, like with the existing design standards they don't go as far out as current -- as what we are proposing and are very limited actually to just a handful of areas. That's part of the point; right? And, then, the other thing is with respect to the comp plan, if the city isn't going to be launching a Comprehensive Plan update for -- I'm just throwing a number out -- two to three years from now maybe, farther. Caleb's probably like, no, five; right? Whatever that is. This could be the possibility of a bit of a mini launch, a trial balloon if you will to kind of take the temperature of what does the community think of the downtown, which is an expansion of -- of the previous destination and start to take some of that information and knowledge and -- and -- and all of the different comments that are gathered from stakeholders, business property owners, et cetera, and hold on to that and think in a couple of years from now, hey, it's time to do that update and we have already got a really good foothold on what the downtown area is or even farther, depending on how it goes. But that's just a -- a perspective on how things could go and implement this Destination Downtown at the same time. Hood: Council President Cavener? Meridian City Council Work Session September 23,202 Page 18 of 31 Cavener: Caleb. Hood: If -- if I can just maybe piggyback a little bit on some of those thoughts, too. And it is TBD. Aaron said it. I -- I -- I think that's what I was going to add, Councilman Overton, to your question a little bit. I think those are some of the questions that we need to -- to have answered. I think there is a good starting point for some of the discussion with the 50 percent. I could also envision something that's tiered. If you do a 20 or 25 percent here is -- it triggers something; right? You don't just -- you know, or we get people to do 49 percent just so they don't have to do, you know -- so, I think we need to think through those things a little bit and what's right for downtown Meridian, what should it trigger when you do -- you know. And -- and any type of it -- you know, zero to 25, 25 to 50, you know, and -- and you have different triggers that require some level of improvement consistent with the plan or the standards or the design review process. Again I don't know what those are or what those ratio should be necessarily, but that is something that I -- I don't necessarily -- I'm not necessarily a big fan of a freebie or else we are just -- we are just kicking the can down the road. If this is our vision, then, let's start to work the vision. If it's like, well, everyone gets a free pass -- I don't know how you track that over time and -- and I'm -- I do have some concerns about that. We don't need to talk about that too terribly much. But that's -- that's the point with a lot of this. I think it's -- it's -- we need some vetting. A lot of it is TBD. I think I generally have a good sense for where that line is about not being over regulatory, but having some things that -- that do -- again assist in the consistency and -- and I think I will just maybe mimic a little bit of what Chris said earlier. What I hear a lot from the development community is that consistency and the dependability. If -- if they know that the city's requiring me to make an investment on my property, they want some assurance you are going to hold the -- the properties on either side and across the street to some certain standards, too. They are not so concerned about having to do it, but they are afraid when there is too much flexibility what it's going to look like across the way. So, if there is some predictability and they understand that the standards and we are pretty sure we are going to get something that sort of looks like this as our neighbor, I'm not as concerned about making those investments. It's a broad statement and, again, not a pendulum too far where we are requiring gold plated tree grates or whatever, but within reason, if those things are standards and are like, okay, I get it. Everyone is going to -- you are going to hold us all to the same standards. Not so wishy washy, that's -- I hear that quite a bit actually. Like, okay, but what are my guarantees that the block's going to look like this or our community is going to look like that. Taylor: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Taylor. Taylor: This is a question for staff, but if we are to revise the architectural standards I have always been under the assumption that that was a -- an entity outside of the city that would maybe define that. Maybe some history on who actually -- you know, how do Meridian City Council Work Session September 23,202 Page 19 of 31 we establish that. If we are to make some changes is that something that the city can do? Like walk me through that, what that looks like. Hood: Yeah. Mr. Mayor, Councilman Taylor, so I -- maybe just a little bit of the history and I can't remember if this made it in the memo or not. We actually have a -- kind of a companion memo, if you will, that we are generally prepared to share with Council about kind of digging in a little bit deeper if you decide this framework is kind of where you want to go. So, I can't remember if it's in Chris' memo or maybe something that Brian put together, a little bit on the process that way in the history even with our design review. Brian touched on it a little bit, you know, initially having some of those standards and that was all done in house. We developed it. Will Thornton was the name of our public -- our employee that we had that largely developed those. Again with, you know, some help -- some assistance. He didn't just do it by himself. There was one FTE on staff that developed our first go at architectural standards. Here -- it's probably been almost a decade now. Was it? 2015? Where we -- we kind of split the baby a little bit and did what we largely have now, our architectural standards manual and, then, the UDC we have some kind of site design standards. So, there are -- there are some differences there with what we expect. I know, again, on site with landscaping and trees and, then, building materials are kind of a different -- some -- most of that's addressed in the ASM. So, how much fenestration you need, roof changes, pitches, materials those types of things are there. It's us. I -- I do want to be careful with too much of that. So, we do have the architectural standards manual. It says standards in the name and this was -- this came up a few weeks ago when we talked about this. There are design exceptions, though, that you can ask for for any of them and that is where we get into, again, that subjectivity on a planner by planner basis. Okay, you are proposing something in lieu. Instead of Windows I want to put a void there, you know, how do you gauge that if that's appropriate or not. So, again, back to your base question. It's us with some serious help and this is where I will -- I will just -- if we are -- if we are going to go this way I would like to have a committee again of some professionals that are willing to dedicate their time, volunteer, meet monthly at least, if not every week or some cadence like that where we can develop something and share that, but have some professionals that can come up with some thoughts that get vetted or we are going to -- and/or we are going to need some consultant help. But that's going to be done, you know, by the city or with MDC's continued support or something like that with some -- for some consultant help to do that, but it would be us to develop largely and, then, implement. Taylor: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Taylor. Taylor: Don't mean to take all the time, so -- but I -- it seems to me I -- I -- after the last meeting I was kind of thinking an overlay. Is seemed like it made some sense to explore. I go back and forth about the -- the level of detail, which is why I asked the question about standards versus guidelines. Very sympathetic to the notion that Councilman Cavener brought up, which -- which is do we run the risk of being too Meridian City Council Work Session September 23,202 Page 20 of 31 controlling and maybe the free market doesn't want to build what we think we want them to build, but I also look at when we approve larger projects in the city, larger developments, you know, out at Ten Mile, you know, six months ago or however long it was and just -- we kind of look around, we definitely put our fingerprints on it. We kind of -- like what do we kind of want to see here? What do we -- how do we want it to work? How do we want it to integrate the neighboring properties? When we look at this part of Meridian, it's kind of a unique thing. I -- so, I think it's appropriate and I think it would make some sense for the city to provide some guidance to have it look the way we want it to look in terms of -- as development comes and some -- maybe some policies that we -- we want to do. Certainly don't want to be overly prescriptive, though, because I think the -- I think that I just -- a personal philosophy. I don't like to be too hands on in that. I -- I am appreciating the argument about clarity of what we want to see is very helpful and appreciated. So, I don't know where that balance is between being flexible and not overly controlling or providing enough guidance that we want to see it. To me I -- I feel like guidelines on -- on this makes some sense, but I'm kind of open to it. But I -- I do think it would be appropriate for us to say here is how we want it to look. I'm supporting the idea of the -- of -- you know, if -- if we do have a design review committee I would like to integrate the historical -- our -- our Commission on these lack of -- historical commission. They should be part of that; right? The conversation we had a few weeks ago, how do we -- how do we make sure that we are having that conversation as part of it. So, I see some real value for us going forward to having a committee, however, we want to set it up, that we can bring in some other voices in this because I think what -- we want to -- we want to signal what we would like to see without telling them how to do it. That's kind of where -- where I'm at. So, I think, again, I -- my -- my feedback is I think an overlay is helpful, as long as we are not going too far Into controlling and prescriptive about how it looks. That's kind of my feedback here at this -- at this point. McClure: Mr. Mayor. If it's helpful, an overlay would just be the tool to implement. So -- and there would be code changes to -- to -- to set that up. The next step or -- or concurrent step with that would be to figure out what to -- what's too far, what's -- what goes -- what's just right and Council can be as involved in that as they want. Right now it's helpful to understand, you know, putting the standards of guidelines aside a little bit, the tool to implement sounds like a good idea or not, which could be an overlay or if you -- you were sort of talking before about the comp plan, if you want to push this out several years you could -- you could go that way as well. The overlays is just a more immediate sort of opportunity to -- to start the work. Taylor: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Taylor. Taylor: Thanks, Brian. And just kind of to -- to go on that. I think there is things that we can start working on now, which is why I would be supportive of the idea of an overlay to -- the low hanging fruit, can we start integrating that into it now where it makes some sense? Because it seems like this is a longer continued discussion, what we want it to Meridian City Council Work Session September 23,202 Page 21 of 31 look like. We are not going to figure it out in the next six weeks or six months. This feels like it's something that's kind of a -- should be constantly tended to in some ways to make sure we -- we get it how we -- we like it. So, that's kind of what -- I mean I -- I -- I'm supportive of the idea of the overlay as a tool to start working on it. You know, I brought up the Comprehensive Plan, mostly because it -- to me it seems like the Comprehensive Plan is a good time where we take a holistic step back, look, what do we want, get the feedback from the community. But that's a big long process. Like that's not sure. And that's a significant amount of staff time and significant amount of outreach. So, that -- that's not a quick process either. So, I don't necessarily think it makes sense to wait for the Comprehensive Plan, because that -- you know, you got to resource that, plan it, budget, so -- Hood: If I can on that, Mr. Mayor and -- and Councilman Taylor. And even if the comp plan spells out a beautiful illustration of everything that everybody wants in downtown, it's still a guiding document in Idaho. It only goes so far legally. It still requires what we are talking about now, which is getting into the code, getting into design standards and all of those things. So, even if the best Comprehensive Plan that's ever been written in this state at the end of the day in this state it only goes so far. In other states it goes a lot farther, but not in Idaho as you know. It's -- it's -- it's just not that legal precedent that a zoning ordinance and the other types of policies that are codified do. So, there is still work to be done at some point in that. Overton: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Overton. Overton: So, we have got a -- I think we have got a rich history in community development, whether it's going back 15 years ago when we redid our sign code of bringing all the people that had a part to play in that, whether they were the sign companies, whether they were the businesses, residents, we brought them all to the table when we made that code and -- and I thought it was a very collaborative movement bringing that code together. We have done the UDC focus groups. We have done the same thing. Try to invite all those people to the table to get their inputs. I -- I see this as being just almost a little bit bigger scope of who we want to bring in and taking a little longer to get it done right. I think -- I think I'm kind of echoing what's -- I have heard just to give kind of my -- my final thoughts as we go forward today, I -- I don't dislike the overlay, the whole idea of it, I really don't. I think much like what we have done at -- at Ten Mile, I think if we have new construction, a new redevelopment, I think we should have a fingerprint on how that's going to get built and we can have that under that overlay. What I am cautious of is existing businesses that have already invested in our downtown area and what they are going to be held under if they want to do some changes. Simison: Councilman Whitlock. Whitlock: (Comments not recorded.) Meridian City Council Work Session September 23,202 Page 22 of 31 Danley: So, Mr. Mayor and Councilman Whitlock, so, I would say that -- first of all, I would say that the last two years have been spent on creating this vision, figuring out -- I should put it a different way. Finding out and helping to frame that vision, not necessarily ours, what we heard, you know, at Dairy Days and -- and at all the other events and through the surveys and through the stakeholder interviews that were held, you know, right across the street down the way here and -- and with all the different people in downtown. So, a lot of work has gone into specifically this area, whereas in, for example, with a Comprehensive Plan maybe that happens as a -- at a sub area level if you will. But it's probable that a conversation at a comp plan level is going to be more citywide and maybe it's broken up by sort of geographic area. But this conversation for the better part two, two and a half years has been incredibly specific and robust about downtown. So, the vision that is in this document definitely reflects what was heard and -- and reviewed and what the -- you know, the folks who were hired myself and our team, you know, tried to come up with. And so I -- I would argue that where we are is certainly a reflection of the types of things that we know -- again, that we have -- we have worked hard to understand. In a -- in an overlay process would we hear more and would we hear more specifics that might tweak a little bit from what the vision is now? A hundred percent. You know, I'm certainly not going to suggest that we got it a hundred percent right and so I do think that there is some room, you know, for existing property owners and so forth that -- that -- that can be dealt with. So -- so, that's part of my answer. There was something else I had. It was really good. It was around to your codify -- the word codify. So, to your point -- so, that -- this is me not using a better synonym; right? But the big picture on that is I -- I guess I will just keep leaning back to all that work, all this effort that's been put forward to get us to this point has to, you know, move into some form of a code, of a standard or guidelines, whatever that ultimately is, in order for it to be realized. So, how much it ends up being really black and white or if they are somewhat gray, I think that the -- the three letters of TBD has been brought up numerous times. It seems to me that that's -- that's kind of where things are and I think that's fair. That's the direction and the point of you all as decision makers, as representatives of your residence and your constituents. So, I don't know if -- if you all have a different -- Hood: I want to maybe just add, you know, or not. I mean this today that -- that are -- you aren't adopting an overlay. We need some -- I don't want to spin my wheels though. If there is general support for exploring this, but at the end of the day there is going to be public hearings and if you don't like -- in a year when we come back and we say this is what we think we have heard and what we think you are going to like, you are ultimately going to say we are not going to set an overlay or we don't like this standard or we want this standard to be a guideline or this guideline to be a standard or -- so, there is that process; right? So, today really is some general direction. Should we keep exploring this or foundationally is it like laissez-faire, let -- let happen what's going to happen and we have -- we do have code today. We already have things that are codified and we can work within that existing context and keep getting what we are getting or do we want to add a -- I don't want to call it another layer, but it is. I mean it -- it's -- it's a little bit more and we haven't even defined that yet. But -- but, again, you have another -- several bytes. I wouldn't get -- take your directions today and, then, you Meridian City Council Work Session September 23,202 Page 23 of 31 will see me in a year. I want to touch base on a fairly regular basis and say, hey, are we headed in the right direction here? But I think that -- hopefully that gives some comfort if there is general -- you know, I don't want to say support -- interest in this concept, we can move forward a little bit with one of the next things would be come up with a scope. You know, what does this kind of look like? A little bit more of a framework. And, again, Brian and I have kind of put something together that if you say, yeah, let's explore a little bit further, we have -- we have -- adding another layer to that and saying, well, this -- this is what the next step could look like. Simison: And maybe just take it back to last month. I mean this was really about -- if we are going to do something, what was the staff's recommendation on how to do it? So, they are recommending an overlay district is if you want to -- to apply if you want to apply any standards do you want to go down this process? They may use the Destination Downtown as the base level, but the -- you know, different set of community members or same set -- may come back with something completely different that doesn't even look like these standards when you go through a process. So, I don't think that we are here to suggest that anything that is in Destination Downtown is what you will get. It may be or it may be nothing like that. So, this just is an overlay district, the right -- in the right process for this Council if you want to move this forward. Danley: I know what it was. The iteration element of things and -- and just real quickly I think things can certainly be done and undone. You know, we want to have a direction, we want to have momentum towards what a vision is, but that doesn't mean it can't be tweaked along the ways or if that vision ultimately in -- in ten, 20 years from now is something that's drastically departed from what we see 2050, there is mechanisms and policies and ways in order to change that and change direction. It happens all the time. So, to your point, yeah, it definitely can -- can be changed. Taylor: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Taylor. Taylor: Yeah. Comment. Remember we had a Ten Mile specific plan that was kind of -- I -- I don't know if that was an overlay, but it kind of -- in some ways kind of functioned a little bit like it, but we had a couple of projects come through and they were kind of out of step with that plan, but one of my criticisms at the time was that we hadn't updated that plan in so long. It felt like the design standards that we had talked about were maybe a little bit outdated. If we do this and we have an overlay, I -- I mean envisioning it still being kind of like a -- a -- a fluid process where we are continually updating it, which is why I like the idea of like a -- if there is a design standard committee that participates in sort of updating it, because what I don't want is to do something and, then, in five years it's stale or in ten years it's stale, but that it's constantly bringing in -- breathing in new life into what we want to see and it evolves as we change seats here and -- and, you know, things change throughout the world. But I think we -- I think we missed an opportunity if we don't try to have some influence on what we want. This really unique part of our city that is unique. It's not a greenfield or a brownfield that we Meridian City Council Work Session September 23,202 Page 24 of 31 are trying to develop, it's kind of got its own unique character and if we say, well, we are not going to do anything I think we would miss out on the opportunity to make it look like how we want. We might lose out on the opportunity to preserve some historical buildings or some history or some things -- you know, the old way of -- of Meridian. So, I -- I just think as we think about that, you know, I think they threw it in that lens of having this -- this overlay should be helpful. It's a -- it's an added layer, but I think it's a layer that would be something we would welcome. Little Roberts: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Council Woman Little Roberts. Little Roberts: Mr. Mayor. Definitely I think they will be -- use the interested. Would definitely like to see this continue regarding the overlay. I like the idea -- we have talked so much over the years about downtown. I definitely like being able to have maybe more say. I don't know if that's through. We have gone over so many words standard, guidelines, whatever we end up sorting out, but I'm one of those that it's like if I was looking at building downtown and I saw a pink building I would be like, oh, sorry, I don't want to be next to that. So, I like that we have a way of kind of keeping things cohesive and -- and giving it direction. I guess that's kind of what I'm looking at the overlay being able to do. So, I would support continued interest in pursuing this. Simison: So, Council, unless I hear -- Caleb, can you then -- team put together a plan kind of what expectations time frame with that overlay concept? I don't think we need to invite them back next month. They can just be shared with Council and if there is a -- any questions next month you are happy to answer, but I think we can move on to the next issue and not spend time on the process side of this conversation. Cavener: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Cavener. Cavener: I want to make sure our parties with MDC are good with that. I assume we are good with that. I just don't want to make any assumptions though. Okay. Thank you. Simison: Okay. Danley: Thank you. See you in November'ish. All right. Appreciate it. Thank you all. 22. Comprehensive Plan Policy Updates Simison: Thank you. Okay. Next item up is Item 22, Comprehensive Plan policy updates. Let's just move on from -- go talk about that plan. Meridian City Council Work Session September 23,202 Page 25 of 31 Anderson: All right. Good evening, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council. Carl Anderson, long range associate planner for the record. So, we were talking about Comprehensive Plan a little bit tonight already. So, I'm here before you to present a status update on the implementation of the Comprehensive Plan as it's currently adopted by the city. So, one of the key elements of the Comprehensive Plan is to revisit those action items that the plan has identified on a regular basis that support the implementation of the Comprehensive Plan. Tonight I'm just going to provide a high level of the process that we have undertaken to provide that review of those action items within the plan. Just a little bit of a refresher on how the plan is organized with those action items and, then, just some key takeaways. I'm not going to go through all 400 and plus action items, policies, and objectives in there. But I do want to just kind of hit on some of those key takeaways and, then, just kind of some next steps. I would like to clarify. Staff is not proposing an amendment tonight. This is really just a report kind of on that status. I wanted to make sure that Council has ample time to kind of read through those comments and digest that as we move forward. So, a little background. The Meridian Comprehensive Plan, as we all know, was adopted in -- about the end of 2019. Since that time there have been five amendments to the Comprehensive Plan. The previous status updates of this type was done in 2023. That update was really focused on those policies with a priority of high, medium or very high. This update was initiated in 2020 -- the spring of 2025 and it focused on all of our action items. So, those are those action items that have a policy. So, ongoing medium very high, high, and low. So, all these updates were compiled in a report. They were sent out to all department heads, commission liaisons, and all of those responses that we received back just kind of as a - - that little bit of a pulse check or audit if you will were compiled in that single report and provided to Council. Some of that contains maybe some minor policy recommendations or maybe some amendments to the lead or support roles or some amendments to the policies themselves. So, just as a -- a reminder and as we all know there are five vision elements for the Comprehensive Plan. So, those are all the -- through that public process and developing the Meridian Comprehensive Plan. Those are the elements that drive the Comprehensive Plan. So, they are -- you know, premiere -- I'm reading -- will be a premier, evolving, livable, vibrant and connected community. So, all those action items go to supporting those vision elements as identified within the Comprehensive Plan. These charts here just kind of show you a little bit of a breakdown as far as how the plan itself is organized. So, the bulk of this is in the action items. You have the goals, which go to -- those are kind of the sub of those vision elements that I just ran through and, then, those objectives go to furthering those goals and so forth. Then we have our action items here. The chart on your right will show you that we have got 308 of those that are really just on -- ongoing tasks that are the day-to-day operations that your city staff are working towards in terms of implementing the Comprehensive Plan and, then, we have several of these that are low, medium, high, very high and I will touch on that here a little bit more in terms of how those are prioritized towards my slide here. And -- and, again, this table will just provide a little bit of -- as visual as far as where those efforts are being focused within the Comprehensive Plan, ranging from arts, culture, housing, public safety, stewardship and so forth. This is just eight counts of those action items -- that 380 or so action items within the plan and how they are organized and where that focus really is. So, just some key takeaways -- Meridian City Council Work Session September 23,202 Page 26 of 31 and I think it's interesting just following our -- our past presentation, the plan really is a living document and many of those action items are being implemented -- or currently being implemented and have been, but these two items really speak to each other. It is a living document, but planning is an iterative process, so we plan, we track and we see how the plan is going and how implementation is going and, then, when it's time maybe a plan's becoming stale or not relevant to the community, it's important that we re- engage with the plan and continue that process. So, one of the takeaways here that -- while the plan is still relevant to the city, there are some items that -- within there that staff have identified that likely need some level of re-engagement within the plan. Whether that's through an update or reprioritization of efforts or maybe a pulse check to see if they are still -- the direction that's right for the city and our community. So, many of the action items as they are conceptualized are past their timeline within the plan. So, very high, high, medium and low -- or just to medium are at that five year mark. So, right at the end of the medium implementation component and we are starting that low component there as well and this may be an area that the Council may wish for staff to kind of reconceptualize and do a little bit deeper dive on them as far as how implementation is going on these elements. If there are things that we need to rethink about how we are organizing our -- these priorities. Due the timelines that were identified five years ago still makes sense for some of these tasks. But this is one area that as an indicator that the plan made -- made a little bit of a dive in terms of maybe a minor update at some point. In the future there may also be an opportunity to consolidate some of these action items and specifically some of those with that ongoing designation. If there is a place where we are -- where we can potentially reduce the number of those action items that we have in there, if they -- if they are more -- if it makes sense to pull them into the strategic -- strategic plan as it's updated in the future or -- yeah. That -- just one area that there may be some opportunity to simplify a little bit in terms of just the overall number of action items to ensure that the plan is approachable to our community and our development community. So, again, we are not recommending amendment to the plan as part of this review. We really did want to make sure that we are providing this report to Council, that they are contained within the memo to Council. We -- staff do continue to work towards implementing the plan, though we do anticipate some future discussions on alignment with the plan itself and Council direction, opportunities and work prioritization on implementing the plan itself and with that I'm happy to take any questions that the Council may have. I know I didn't get into the weeds there on -- on some of those, but that is a lot of text and happy to answer any questions that the Council may have. Simison: Thank you. Council, any questions? Taylor: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Taylor. Taylor: So, your timeline, you are -- you are wanting feedback from us on -- and there is a lot here, so I kind of wanted to listen to what you wanted us to focus on and -- and that's -- that's very helpful. What's your timeline on wanting feedback and what's next Meridian City Council Work Session September 23,202 Page 27 of 31 for -- are we going to have a -- a -- more of a -- any kind of a -- more collaborative process or are you just looking for individual feedback? Give us a sense what you -- what specifically you want. Anderson: Yeah. Thank you, Council Member Taylor. So, not necessarily a timeline per se to the overall status update. This is something that our plan calls for us to be -- redo -- to be doing pretty regularly. Ideally no more than this two year basis, though as kind of alluded to, there are some elements that we do anticipate being back before Council to workshop a little bit more. One of those elements actually relates to design standards and, you know, downtown design standards from the historic preservation commission and some of the standards within there as well and some of those are things that Council is actively working through and talking through. So, I do anticipate that we will be back forward to talk through some of that and how implementation of the plan is going. In terms of individual feedback, if there is anything that really jumps out from the reports, happy to field questions as they come up and, then, also I would encourage Council to reach out to those to identify department leads on some of those items, too, if you have any questions for them specifically. Hood: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Mr. Hood. Hood: Can I piggyback a little bit on -- on that answer and -- and the question I guess a little bit. So, this is staff trying to be accountable to the plan and show you what we have been working on over the last couple of years. If there are, you know, more direction -- I mean depending on if there is a budget implication or a work plan, but, yeah, I want to appreciate department heads and their designees helping us. This is where we are at with this thing. It was designated as a low priority. We haven't done anything with it or it was very high and we haven't done anything with it or it was low and we did something with it or -- so, again, it is -- it's aged a little bit. We have gone through a pandemic right after it was adopted basically. So, the -- you know, immediate stuff didn't necessarily happen immediately and some of the immediate stuff didn't even happen over the last five years. So, if there is some of that direction, if you want to say, I mean this is the community's plan and -- and at the time those elected officials said these are the things that we should be working on as a city. I will just reiterate, you know, of the 400 plus policies, 380 some of them are ongoing and I think we do a pretty good job with the ongoing ones. We haven't made as much headway maybe on some of the ones that are real actionable things that are outside of what we do day-to-day, but that's what we are trying to get in front of you is here is -- here is our report out of what we have done over the last 24 months or so and, again, as a -- as a body, if you are like, hey, this was designated low five years ago, but, man, this is what we should be working on now or was very high, then, should be low now. It's not necessarily the time and place for that right now, but those are the types of things start to think about and you can give us that feedback or as appropriate with the various departments, yeah, this is us just, again, trying to be transparent in what we are working on and, Meridian City Council Work Session September 23,202 Page 28 of 31 yeah, I will report out more than asking for a bunch of feedback, but we will take whatever feedback you have whenever you have it. Simison: Council, any further questions on this item or comments? All right. Thank you very much. ORDINANCES [Action Item] 23. Ordinance 25-2098: An Ordinance amending Meridian City Code Section 8-2-3, regarding the definition of address subdesignation; adding to Meridian City Code Section 8-2-3 new definitions of dwelling, accessory, dwelling, primary, and dwelling, multi; directing the codifier to alphabetize the newly updated terms; amending Meridian City Code Section 8-2-7(E)(2), regarding addressing multi dwelling residential developments and multi-tenant commercial developments; amending Meridian City Code Section 8-2-7(E)(11), regarding addressing primary and secondary dwellings; amending Meridian City Code Section 8-2-7(E)(12)(b), regarding addressing corner lots; repealing conflicting ordinances; and providing an effective date. Simison: With that we will move on to Item 23, which is Ordinance No. 25-2098. Ask the Clerk to read this ordinance by title. Johnson: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. This is an ordinance Amending Meridian City Code Section 8-2-3, regarding the definition of address subdesignation; adding to Meridian City Code Section 8-2-3 new definitions of dwelling, accessory, dwelling, primary, and dwelling, multi; directing the codifier to alphabetize the newly updated terms; amending Meridian City Code Section 8-2-7(E)(2), regarding addressing multiple dwelling residential developments and multi-tenant commercial developments; amending Meridian City Code Section 8-2-7(E)(11), regarding addressing primary and secondary dwellings; amending Meridian City Code Section 8-2-7(E)(12)(b), regarding addressing corner lots; repealing conflicting ordinances; and providing an effective date. Simison: Thank you. Council, you have heard this ordinance read by title. Is there anybody that would like it read in its entirety? If not do I have a motion? Taylor: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Taylor. Taylor: Move that we approve Ordinance No. 25-2098 providing for a waiver of the full reading and a waiver of the second and third readings. Overton: Second. Meridian City Council Work Session September 23,202 Page 29 of 31 Simison: Have a motion and a second to approve Ordinance No. 25-2098. Is there discussion on the motion? If not, Clerk call the roll. Roll Call: Cavener, yea; Strader, absent; Overton, yea; Little Roberts, yea; Taylor, yea; Whitlock, yea. Simison: All ayes. Motion carries and the item is agreed to. MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT. 24. Ordinance No. 25-2099: An Ordinance adding a new subsection to Unified Development Code section 11-5-5, concerning fence measurements; adding definitions to Unified Development Code Section 11-1A-1; amending certain definitions in Unified Development Code Section 11-1A-1; amending Unified Development Code Section 11-1A-2, Figure 2, regarding types of dwelling units; amending Unified Development Code Table 11-2A-4, concerning dimensional standards for the R-2 district; repealing and replacing Unified Development Code section 11-3A-7, concerning fences; amending Unified Development Code section 11-3A-17(D), concerning sidewalks and parkways; amending Chapter 5, Article F of the Unified Development Code, concerning private street requirements; amending Unified Development Code section 11-4-3- 18, concerning flex space specific use standards; amending Unified Development Code section 11-4-3-21, concerning home occupation accessory use specific use standards; amending Unified Development Code section 11-4-3-27(G), concerning multi-family development specific use standards; amending Unified Development Code section 11-4-3-41, concerning vertically integrated residential project specific use standards; amending Unified Development Code Section 11-5A-6(C), concerning the neighborhood meetings public hearing process; amending Unified Development Code Section 11- 5B-6(F)(1), concerning time limitations and extensions for conditional uses; leaving all other provisions of the Unified Development Code unchanged; repealing conflicting ordinances, and providing an effective date. Simison: Next item up is Ordinance No. 25-2099. Ask the Clerk to read this ordinance by title. Johnson: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. This is an ordinance adding a new subsection to Unified Development Code Section 11-5-5, concerning fence measurements; adding definitions to Unified Development Code Section 11-1A-1 ; amending certain definitions in Unified Development Code Section 11-1A-1; amending Unified Development Code Section 11-1A-2, Figure 2, regarding types of dwelling units; amending Unified Development Code Table 11-2A-4, concerning dimensional standards for the R-2 Meridian City Council Work Session September 23,202 Page 30 of 31 district; repealing and replacing Unified Development Code Section 11-3A-7, concerning fences; amending Unified Development Code Section 11-3A-17(D), concerning sidewalks and parkways; amending Chapter 5, Article F of the Unified Development Code, concerning private street requirements; amending Unified Development Code Section 11-4-3-18, concerning flex space specific use standards; amending Unified Development Code Section 11-4-3-21, concerning home occupation accessory use specific use standards; amending Unified Development Code Section 11-4-3-27(G), concerning multi-family development specific use standards; amending Unified Development Code Section 11-4-3-41, concerning vertically integrated residential project specific use standards; amending Unified Development Code Section 11-5A- 6(C), concerning the neighborhood meetings public hearing process; amending Unified Development Code Section 11-5B-6(F)(1), concerning time limitations and extensions for conditional uses; leaving all other provisions of the Unified Development Code unchanged; repealing conflicting ordinances, and providing an effective date. Simison: Thank you. Council, you have heard that very long title read by our city clerk. Would anybody like it read in its entirety? Seeing no one, do I have a motion? Taylor: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Taylor. Taylor: Move that we approve Ordinance No. 25-2099 providing for a waiver of the full reading and a waiver of the second and third readings. Overton; Second. Simison: Have a motion and a second to approve Ordinance No. 25-2099. Is there discussion? If not clerk call the roll. Roll Call: Cavener, yea; Strader, absent; Overton, yea; Little Roberts, yea; Taylor, yea; Whitlock, yea. Simison: All ayes. Motion carries and the item is agreed to. MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT. Simison: Council, we are at the end of our agenda. Do I have a motion? Cavener: Mr. Mayor? Simison: Councilman Cavener. Cavener: Move to adjourn our work session. Little Roberts: Second. Meridian City Council Work Session September 23,202 Page 31 of 31 Simison: Motion and second to adjourn. All in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay? The ayes have it. We are adjourned. MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 5:56 P.M. (AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) MAYOR ROBERT SIMISON 10-14-2025 ATTEST: CHRIS JOHNSON - CITY CLERK 10-14-2025