HomeMy WebLinkAboutApril 5, 2007 P&Z Minutes
Meridian Planning & Zoning
April 5, 2007
Page 55 of 64
Rohm: Could I get a second?
Newton-Huckabay: Second.
Rohm: It's been moved and seconded to continue Item CPA 07-007 and CPA 07-008 to
the regularly scheduled meeting of April 19th, 2007. All those in favor say aye. Opposed
same sign? Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Canning: Chairman Rohm, before you move onto the next item, I would like to
acknowledge that our consultant from HDR is in the audience listening patiently and
Miguel -- want to wave? There we go. And he's here to listen and make those changes
you requested.
Item 8:
Public Hearing: CPA 07-003 Request to amend the Comprehensive
Plan Future Land Use Map by adding and amending pathway locations for
the Pathways Comprehensive Plan Amendment by the City of Meridian
Parks and Recreation Department:
Rohm: Okay. Thank you. I appreciate that. And there are some of us that are on an e-
mail list that -- the sooner you have an opportunity to do that overlay, I don't know -- I
just am very visual, but I'd like to be able to take a look at those in their entirety as soon
as possible. Okay. Thank you. Appreciate your input. We have one item left on the
agenda and it is Public Hearing CPA 07-003 related to Pathways Comprehensive Plan
amendment and I'd like to begin with the staff report. Oh, didn't I open? Excuse me. I'd
like to at this time open CPA 07-003 and begin with the staff report. Is that better?
Lucas: Thank you, Chairman Rohm, Members of the Commission. Let me just get
situated with our Powerpoint presentation. Here we are. This application specifically
references a designation we have on our future land use map for pathways. With all the
development in the city and the proposed expansion of our areas of impact, we decided,
both in conjunction with parks department and the City of Meridian planning department,
that it would be a good time also to get an update for that pathway network. And the
pathway network shown on the future land use map has not been updated since 2003
and a major revision to the pathway plan has not been completed since the first master
pathway plan was developed in the year 2000. Due to the amount of development that
has occurred in the recent past and the continued growth of the city, as stated, the
planning department and the parks and recreation department had decided it's time to
do that. As development continues to occur in the city, the pathway system will continue
to grow as developers build their portion of the overall pathway system. And one of the
major focus points of this -- of this revision was to identify sections of pathway that have
been installed with development and provide a clear picture of how the numerous
existing portions of pathway could be efficiently and effectively connected. The
proposed pathway never specifically addresses these gaps in the pathway system and
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April 5, 2007
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also focuses on connecting significant features, such as schools, parks, public facilities
and major business districts. Much like the existing pathway network, the updated
pathway system focuses on a core system of pathways based on the existing canal
system within the City of Meridian and this core system of pathway is enhanced by key
connectors that will provide connections to and through many residential areas while
creating a larger city wide loop. That's just a brief overview of what -- of what the goals
of this updated pathway plan are. The plan itself -- it contains what you're seeing in front
of you, which is the actual path -- the physical pathway network and it also is actually a
document that contains various things, such as design elements and a discussion of
implementation of these pathways and all those types of things. But in this situation the
-- this body, this Commission, is in a position, really, to only act on the network itself, the
map amendment. The text and the design elements and all of the other things that have
come along with that -- with this network aren't really being considered tonight. They
have been considered by the parks and recreation commission and that commission
recommended approval of the overall -- of the entire plan to the City Council, but
because these designations specifically refer to the land use map and an amendment to
that map, that's why this Commission has become involved at this time. I just want to
make that clear that this -- this discussion tonight is, really, only about the designation of
where these paths are within the city and not about how this plan will be implemented,
because that's something that the City Council will be deciding at a later date. With that
said, there has been quite a bit of discussion on maybe the location of some of these
pathways and how they will be built out. And I wanted to -- we did receive a petition
from a large group of citizens that has voiced some concern about one specific section
of pathway along the Nine Mile Creek north of Cherry Lane towards Ustick. And I will go
ahead and read into the record the statement that was included in that petition for
everyone to hear. It says: We, the undersigned, strongly oppose the present proposed
pathway network along Nine Mile Creek Canal, with a maintenance road, fence,
pathway, landscaped area and another fence, it would extend not only into our private
property, but into our actual homes and we are strongly opposed to losing 30 to 50 feet
of our property. The presence of pedestrians, joggers, dog walkers, lights along the
pathway, et cetera, right next to our home, will completely take away any privacy we are
entitled to and currently enjoy. We are also very concerned about the noise, possibilities
of vandalism and any waste left behind by humans or animals, contributing to our loss
of a safe, private, and sanitary neighborhood. It would also bring an end to the habitat of
the wildlife that lives along the Nine Mile Creek. It is our request that this proposed
phase of the pathway network along Nine Mile Creek be permanently removed. And
there are various undersigned. I believe it's over 50 people that had signed this petition
and maybe more than that. I didn't count the exact number. I wanted to read that into
the -- into the record and give a response to that -- to that statement. And I want to
make it clear that staff recognizes these concerns, especially when the pathway that's
proposed through an established neighborhood and this isn't something that they have
ever really been -- it's been on the map -- this section of pathway has been on the map
for quite some time, but it's never something that has been pursued and with this
revision to the network it became kind of an issue for this neighborhood and staff
recognizes that, but staff's response to that is that this pathway network is a future
pathway network. It's a long-term goal of the city to have provided these pathway
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April 5, 2007
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connections and, really, it's not the city's position currently or the parks and recreation
department's position to go -- I mean in a sense to get the bulldozers ready and go
ahead and put this path through. That's not the purpose of this plan. It's, really, a long-
term vision of the pathway network throughout the city and it's something that the city in
the past and most likely in the future will work with property owners to make this
happen. Currently most pathways go in with new development. This Commission sees
pathways quite often come through as they are on our plan and a new subdivision
comes in we will require pathways all the time. But in a situation where it's a subdivision
that was approved and has been built quite a long time ago and there is a pathway
designation, I just wanted to make it clear that it's not the intention of this plan or the
intention of staff to say that this pathway is going to be built in the next day or the next
year. We don't really know. Really, the plan is that these pathways be included when
these properties redevelop and -- or with significant buy-in from the landowners to make
this happen. If that buy-in doesn't exist, then, it would be difficult to make these
pathways go through, because as the landowners say, it's their property and the city's
really not in the -- doesn't have the habit of going and taking people's property. It's not
something that happens. So, I just -- I just wanted to make that clear. And if there is any
questions, we can certainly respond to those and we have our legal department here
and also a representative from the parks and recreation department to answer those
types of questions. And with that staff is recommending approval of this proposed
pathway network and believes that it really will provide -- it provides a great vision and a
great plan for future pedestrian and multi-use connectivity throughout the city.
Rohm: Thank you. That was a great presentation. And I'm sure it's helped clarify a lot of
things for a lot of people. Thank you. Any questions of staff before we --
O'Brien: I just have one.
Rohm: Go ahead, Tom.
O'Brien: So, what you're saying is that this is just a proposal that -- there could be one,
two or several missing links that if you don't get it -- I mean it just destroys the whole
thing; right? I mean you can't -- you might be able to walk or run for a mile and, then,
you stop, I guess. I don't know what -- what's the contingency plan there? You say the
city isn't in the business of taking away people's property, of course, but, boy, it seems
like that's a long road to haul.
Lucas: I'll go ahead and let Mr. Ellsworth respond to that question. He has a little bit
more background with the whole history of this plan and he's worked very closely with
the parks and recreation department and the consultants who created it.
Ellsworth: Thank you, Justin. Chairman Rohm, Members of the Commission, one thing
that's unique about the segment of pathway in particular on which the residents
commented, is unlike all of the other segments of pathway that are proposed and
without getting to far into the narrative of the text, the consultant also proposed a
parallel on street route and in a spreadsheet that describes, for example, a pathway
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April 5, 2007
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actually running along the east side of the canal. It actually is termed -- it identified a
short term and a long term for implementation of the segment. In the near term the on-
street route will probably be the way to go. In the longer term the canal pathway is the
direction that it should go. Without speaking directly to the consultants about that, I have
a feeling what happened is they took a look at this corridor, recognized the impact it
would have to the property owners and understanding that it's likely that it will take
redevelopment before this is a viable pathway, they proposed the near term option, in
addition to -- but I think it's worth noting -- because, like I said, this is the only pathway
segment in the whole proposed network where that was the case.
O'Brien: Okay. Thank you.
Siddoway: Mr. Chairman?
Rohm: Commissioner Siddoway.
Siddoway: Matt, do you know if -- and I could -- maybe I ought to wait -- hold this
question for the property owners. I'll go ahead and ask it and, then, maybe they can
respond, too. But the -- what I'm wondering is -- is the easement for the Nine Mile Creek
through that area already fenced off from their backyards or not? I will just throw that out
as a question and I'll let the public respond to it.
Ellsworth: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, Commissioner Siddoway, the
residents are indicating that, no, there is not a fence and I do know that property lines in
this instance do run to the center of the creek. So, it appears that it's an easement. It is
not fenced. One point of clarification is a bit of confusion on staffs part. The GIS system
that we operate on labeled the Nine Mile Creek as a creek. One of the residents of this
neighborhood actually contacted the irrigation district and as it turns out it's, in fact, a
drain, which -- which winds up changing the design standards that the irrigation district
require on it. The long and short of it is -- and this gets back into the text of the plan, so I
don't go too far in depth, but it's a bit more constrained what the recommendations are
as far as the amount of land needed, rather than maintenance road, fence, pathway,
property line, it would, essentially, be multiple use between the maintenance road and
the pathway in the case of a drain.
Rohm: Thank you. Okay. Thank you. I think at this time we will take some public
testimony. Kevin Barkell.
Barkell: Kevin Barkell. 2181 North Maxie Place. We had a meeting with Matt awhile
back here about this proposed pathway plan. If you will look at this it shows an 18 foot
easement from the edge of the bank, not the center of the creek, for the irrigation
district. It shows another 14 feet for this pathway. I overhung a tape measure a foot and
a half to two foot over the edge of the bank, it wipes out a seven foot hedge that I have
hiding -- hiding that irrigation right of way. It takes up about two foot of my neighbor's
fence into -- and leaves their pathway within about three foot of her garage. There is
other homes along the way. It takes up even more other yards. We have contacted
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John Anderson of Nampa-Meridian Irrigation District and where us as the homeowners
do own that property to the center of the creek, Nampa-Meridian Irrigation does have
access in there. Nampa-Meridian Irrigation isn't about to give it up either. The 18 foot
isn't enough for them. By overhanging the tape measure and allowing their 18 feet, that
doesn't give them near enough room. They actually need to set that in three feet from
the edge of the bank before they can do their 18 foot of easement. So, here we go
again. We are losing even more. I lose over 3,000 square foot of property, not -- and
that's just in this pathway. That's not measuring it from the center of the creek to -- and,
here again, back to this gentleman up on Overland. Are you -- what happens to my
property from the edge of that pathway to the center of the creek? Here, again, I have
talked with -- we got 65 signatures. Of the 65 signatures we went to 83 homes. Sixty-
five were opposed. Fifteen were not home. One was for the pathway. And three -- or
two didn't want to sign. That says a lot right there. There is a lot of people that do not
want this in their backyards. I fought for years to keep people from going through there.
We finally got Nampa -- well -- and it didn't -- you know, getting Nampa-Meridian
Irrigation out there to put a cable up and get a sign posted so our liability was at a nil if
somebody drowned in that creek. We had trouble with people racing up and down
through there on motorcycles and four wheelers. Cars running through there at night. I
talked to a gal down the road from me. She's finding hypodermic needles back there.
You cannot tell me that if you put a pathway through something like that, that crime's
going to go down. It's going to skyrocket. I don't care what you say, it's going to
skyrocket through there.
Rohm: And thank you for your testimony. I think that the staff report pretty much says
that this a -- the vision of a pathway. It's not that the pathway is going to be made
encumbering on you to put it in, it would only occur with redevelopment type --
Barkell: Well, this -- this is not -- they are saying, though, that eventually they will want
try to push it through these existing homes in order to connect --
Rohm: I think, actually, the staff was actually talking about the alternate pathway
around, because it's obvious that the current development as it is doesn't support the
pathway going along the -- the drain. I think that you're really on the same page,
honestly.
Barkell: Well, I just want it on public record that we as the homeowners are -- if
somebody comes knocking at the door, we are going to fight it tooth and nail.
Rohm: And I think everybody understands that.
Barkell: Okay. Thank you.
Rohm: You bet. Thank you. John Sessel.
Sessel: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission. My name is John
Sessel and I reside at 1445 West Greenhedge Drive in Meridian, Idaho. And I'm just
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here tonight to express my support for the pathways plan as presented and as prepared
based on recommendations by staff. I had an opportunity to talk very briefly this
morning with Justin about the Comp Plan amendment and appreciate his -- his
information. I did prepare some comments on the plan itself that I submitted to the
Parks and Recreation Department. I -- you know, as a relatively recent newcomer to
Meridian, I think we need to expand our opportunities for pathways, parks, greenspace,
in the community and I think this plan concept, vision, is a great start and I applaud you
for taking this initiative. So, just would like to be on record in support of it. Thank you.
Rohm: All right. Thank you. I guess along the lines of his comments, basically, as any
development comes before this planning commission that is adjacent to a waterway,
there is typically a pathway associated with that redevelopment proposal and that's
pretty much how the pathway system is going to expand throughout our community and
-- and it's only through the redevelopment process. So, for those properties that don't
redevelop, the pathway's probably not going to get there. And I certainly can't make a
quantitative statement. But, typically, that's the way --
Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Chair? Matt address that without a -- then, detour into the street,
around the --
Rohm: Exactly.
Newton-Huckabay: -- which is common all over the city.
Rohm: Just so the pathway can't continue to the next place, but it does take off. With
that being said, we have one more person that has signed up. Terry Renninger.
Renninger: Hi. I'm Terry Renninger. I live at 2111 Leann Way, Meridian. And I'm with
Kevin here. I live just down the road from him or -- down the -- where ever the pathways
mayor may not go. And I'm one of the property owners that tends to lose more property
than him. And, you know, like he's saying, it's not a for sure thing or nothing and I just
want everybody to know that I'm against it. I like my privacy. I like the ducks in the
morning and the morning doves and whatnot. And I'd like to keep it that way.
Mr. Rohm: Don't blame you a bit. Thank you. Boy. That's just about everybody. But at
this pOint that's the end of the people that have signed up to testify. If there is anyone
else that would like to come forward now is that time. Okay. Thank you. Discussion?
Let's see. We are going to start with Commissioner Newton-Huckabay.
Newton-Huckabay: I have nothing to add.
Moe: I find that hard to believe.
Newton-Huckabay: I guess the only thing I would mention is maybe some way of putting
in some wording or reference that makes it a little more clear and communicates a little
better to address particularly the neighbors' concern. The intent of the city is not to blaze
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through the back of their property and put in a pathway and -- because it's going to be
misunderstood by more people not familiar with the process and it appears that that is
the only section of the plan that's confusing and I live near you folks. I ride my bike
down your road and I can see where --
Baird: Mr. Chair and Members of the Commission and Commissioner Newton-
Huckabay, what you have before you is just a map tonight. This is a little unusual, as
they mentioned at the beginning. The parks commission heard the text, the plan itself,
and they -- that's skipping to you and going directly to the Council. So, your comments
are germane to the fact that these individuals will probably want to show up to the City
Council and express what you just stated, that, you know, it is an issue for the City
Council to decide. What's before you are lines on a map and adopting that map in your
Comprehensive Plan. So, this may not be the forum, but I wanted to let these
individuals know that they can express those concerns to City Council. And, once again,
Anna wants to correct whatever misstatements I just made.
Canning: Of course not. Chairman Rohm, Members of the Commission, it's true that
there is nothing that you have been given specific authority to recommend that we could
change to accommodate that. But you could certainly just send a letter from the
Commission, if that's what you want to do, recommending that when the City Council
hears the parks plan that they consider including some language to that effect.
Newton-Huckabay: One good thing -- I mean highlighting it in some way, it is a unique
section of the plan -- of the map.
Canning: And the parks director is in the audience and I'm sure he will take that forward
with him, if you so choose.
Rohm: Okay. Thank you. Commissioner Siddoway.
Siddoway: I agree with Newton-Huckabay. No. First I give a comment of the plan overall
and, then, I'll speak specifically to Nine Mile. I think these lines have been a long time
coming. You know, we have -- we have on our current comp plan some conceptual lines
that were in desperate need of some refinement and a harder look in the field of
whether these pathways could actually go and that's -- that's what's happened through
this process and I am quite pleased that it's happened. So, I am quite favorable the idea
of adding the -- these revised lines to the pathway -- to the Comprehensive Plan map to
replace the ones that are currently shown. The current map also shows the same
alignment along the Nine Mile. So, there really is no change for this area in that sense.
It's going to be particularly challenging to get through with property owners having
ownership through the center line. That is not typical through the city, but it does
happen in a couple of instances, especially in some of the older subdivisions -- older is
not the right word, because they were platted in the '90s -- early '90s, I think. But those
that were --
Newton-Huckabay: Established.
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Siddoway: Established. This same issue is going to occur more than here. But generally
that's not the case and I would -- I think I would prefer to show an eventual connection
along the Nine Mile Creek, but I do acknowledge it's going to be difficult at best and
would require a lot of coordination with the existing homeowners and, you know, it's
conceivable that it may never, but I would prefer that it -- it's shown for the continuity of
the system and that's my feeling.
Rohm: Thank you. Commissioner O'Brien.
O'Brien: They really covered it. The other Commissioners covered things pretty well. I
couldn't add to that. I think the traffic system is something that's been a long coming and
needed for quite awhile, especially with the growth that we have experienced. So, you
know, I think, you know, I think it's great that there is going to be some issues and
problems, especially when you hit final canals, there is going to be a lot of hard work
and to keep little kids from falling in, so I imagine there is fenceways and something
that's going to go up on canals. But it's quite an endeavor and I will support it.
Rohm: Thank you. Mr. Moe.
Moe: I would probably just go with the same comments that were made, but the one
point I would make is I am -- I'm very happy to see this. I was on the park and rec many
years ago and when there were no pathways or when there was just discussions of
having pathways and from, then, to now it's -- there is a lot of change and there has
been a lot of work to make this happen and, you know, they are constantly working on it
and I commend, you know, the parks department, as well as the Commission, they have
done a great job continuing this on and I think it's great for the City of Meridian.
Rohm: Thank you. And I guess my only final comments on all that is even with all of the
progress we are making on the pathway, it certainly never takes away the individual's
right as the property owners. So, with that being said, I would like to have a motion to
continue this to the 19th of April.
Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Chair? So, this particular hearing, though, will we just hear it on
the 19th and recommend before the City Council to all the other amendments if you
have anymore discussion on it.
Rohm: This one probably we won't need any additional discussion, so maybe we could
actually close the Public Hearing on this one and not necessarily -- Mr. Baird, do you
have --
Baird: Mr. Chair and Members of the Commission, I -- for technical purposes you do
need to continue it to a date certain. However, the maker of the motion could indicated
continuing for the sole purpose of making a recommendation at that time.
Rohm: And I think that's perfect.
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Newton-Huckabay: Okay. I just wanted to clarify that for the homeowners, for them to
show up for another long meeting on the 19th, because, then, they will always want to
come to the City Council meeting. So, we are only --
Rohm: You have got the mike. You can make your motion and -- just that way.
Newton-Huckabay: Is there no motion -- I haven't had to make an ad hoc motion
forever. Mr. Chair?
Rohm: Commissioner Newton-Huckabay.
Newton-Huckabay: I recommend we close the Public Hearing for CPA 07 --
Rohm: We are going to -- okay.
Newton-Huckabay: We will continue the Public Hearing for CPA 07-003, the request to
amend the Comprehensive Plan future land use map by adding and amending the path
locations for the pathways Comprehensive Plan amendment by the City of Meridian
Parks and recreation department to the regularly scheduled meeting of April 17th -- April
19th for the sole purpose of deliberation and recommendation to City Council.
Rohm: Very good.
Newton-Huckabay: End of motion.
Moe: Second.
Rohm: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to continue Item CPA 07-003 to the
regularly scheduled meeting of April 19th, 2007. All those in favor say aye. Opposed
same sign? Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Rohm: We need one more motion.
Moe: Mr. Chairman, I move to adjourn. David, you want to second that?
Newton-Huckabay: I will. Second.
Rohm: It's been moved and seconded to adjourn. All those in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 10:57 P.M.