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HomeMy WebLinkAboutJanuary 2, 2003 Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting January 2, 2003 Page 5 of 57 Borup: Did we have anyone here from the audience on this item? I didn't think we probably would. . Item 6. Public Hearing: CUP 02-042 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a drive-thru window for a coffee and ice cream shop in a CoN zone in the Linder Crossing retail center by Stubblefield Development Company - southeast corner of West Cherry Lane and North Linder Road: Borup: Next item is Public Hearing CUP 02-042, a request for a Conditional Use Permit for a drive-thru window for a coffee and ice cream shop in a CoN zone on Linder Crossing Retail Center by Stubblefield Development Company. It's at the southeast corner of Cherry Lane and North Linder. I'd like to open this Public Hearing and start with the staff report. Siddoway: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission. The Linder Crossing project is at the intersection of Cherry Lane and Linder Road on the southeast corner in this location. This is the site photo. There has been a new building recently under construction on that site. This is the east side of that building looking from Cherry Lane towards the southwest. The building was approved as a Certificate of Zoning Compliance as a permitted use. At the time that the plans were approved and the project came through Planning and Zoning, there was no drive-thru. During construction they added one and so they are before this Commission tonight to seek approval of that drive-thru. It's approximately -- you can see the existing residences in the rear. They are about 100 feet away to the south. You should have a staff report dated December 23'd. The basic issue that may need to be addressed is possible noise mitigation for those adjacent residential properties. The applicant points out that the speaker for the drive-thru will be directed due east and not south, so the speakers will be pointed away somewhat from those properties. They have also constructed the masonry wall, which you can see in the back of the photo. Ordinance does not specifically address noise levels, but in as much as this is a Conditional Use Permit, conditions can be added and have been added to at least one other project in the past, which was Sonic fast food, where the City Council limited their decibel level to 55 decibels at the property line. The only other issue -- the drive-thru is right here on the Site Plan on the east side. There is stacking depth for probably four cars as shown before getting into the drive aisle. One recommendation from Brad Hawkins-Clark, which did not make it into the written staff report, would be to eliminate this one parking stall right at the southeast corner of the property, extend the planter over, that would give some additional stacking space that wouldn't interfere with -- with parked cars. Under the site-specific requirements - Zaremba: Steve? Siddoway: Yes. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting January 2, 2003 Page 6 of 57 Zaremba: Before you move on, that looks to me like it might be a loading entrance for that business there. Would it be possible to mark it for -- leave it as configured, but mark it for no parking, loading zone only, or something? Siddoway: It's not needed as additional landscaping per se by the ordinance, so I guess that would be up to the Commission. Zaremba: It just looked to me like that's probably the loading entrance for the business, Siddoway: I 'm sure there is an entrance h ere at this curb cut sidewalk. Whether it could be loaded without that or not, we can leave that to discussion with the applicant. Zaremba: Okay. Siddoway: Under the site-specific requirements, Item Number 2 was the only one I thought I should point out at this point, hours of operation. They are recommending that the drive-thru window be limited from 6:00 A.M. to 10:00 P.M. Sunday through Thursday, and 6:00 A.M. until 11 :00 P.M. on Fridays and Saturdays fairly generous hours of operation there for the drive-thru that may need to be addressed by the Commission. With those issues highlighted, I am ready to stand for any questions. Borup: Questions from the Commission? Centers: Yes, Mr. Chairman. Steve, these are the houses in question correct? Borup: No. They are at the bottom. Centers: Here? Siddoway: Yes. Centers: And where is the speaker? Siddoway: The speaker will be around this location here, which is pointing east. Centers: Okay so they are not having an advance speaker, just a speaker at the window? Siddoway: I don't know that. Let's ask the applicant. Centers: Thank you. Borup: Would the applicant like to make their presentation? Do we have the applicant here? Stubblefield: Is it my turn? Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting January 2, 2003 Page 7 of 57 Borup: Yes. Stubblefield: My name is John Stubblefield for the record. We don't have the speaker set up yet and it's going to face completely to the east, so, essentially, we are in agreement with staff recommendations. I would stand for any questions that you have. Zaremba: I think the major issue that's going to be discussed -- I don't know whether there are any neighbors here -- they will an opportunity to speak -- is the bleed out of noise from the speaker. Stubblefield: Okay. Zaremba: I don't know much - enough about electronics. I know there are such things as directional microphones that could pinpoint something. Are there directional speakers or a way to focus the speakers somehow? Maybe you don't know either. Stubblefield: It's a learning experience for me, too. I will say one thing, on the very back of the building you will notice there is a column there and that column is three-foot by three-foot, it's very solid, and we will have the speaker turned totally to the east and pointed out away from the homes. We built the six-foot block wall to help as a barrier and we went -- I will say we went above and beyond the call of duty in terms of building this building, in the fact that we put the six-foot block wall back there. Then, on top of the building itself, in the very back, we built a four-foot parapet wall that doesn't show here, but on the back of the wall a four-foot parapet that blocks all the heating and air- conditioning units. We have tried to do everything that we could to be conscientious and very concerned about our neighbors, because they are our neighbors, and we have been here for a long time. Actually, my father and I built those houses, you know, 30 years ago. I was still in college, and so, you know, we would just try to -- we are going to be here for a long time. We hope that what we have done is create a situation that the neighbors will appreciate, understand, and it's sensitive to the neighbors, I hope. Borup: D 0 you have a problem, John, with the d ecibell evels any problem with that requirement? Stubblefield: No. I support that totally. Borup: And I'm not sure on what's available. I know I have been in some drive-ins where you can hear it clear down the way. I have been in others where I couldn't hear the car in front of me, you know, the person speaking inside where -- you know, the car in front of me I couldn't hear with my window open. I do know there are different types and they must be directional or something. Zaremba: Well -- and I have mentioned before, there are even set-ups that are more like a telephone handset. The only issue I have with those is the possible cleanliness of the people that have it to their ear before you. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting January 2. 2003 Page 8 of 67 Borup: I think there is some technology where the noise doesn't go beyond much -- facing right at the car. Maybe it was real directional. I don't know. I don't remember what -- I don't remember what drive-thru that was, but I just remember I was surprised that I couldn't hear the car front of me and -- Zaremba: Because you were going to order the same thing they ordered right and you couldn't hear it? Stubblefield: We would support the 55-decibel level. Okay. It makes perfect sense to us, because we do want to be good neighbors. Zaremba: While we have the landscape drawing up, let me ask -- these trees in this area are they deciduous or evergreen? I'm thinking of the additional sound barrier they would provide. Stubblefield: I would have to ask the developer whether they are deciduous. I don't know. Zaremba: Can we specify that they be evergreens? Stubblefield: We could do that. Also one recommendation is down in that bottom corner on the lower right-hand side of this drawing right there, if it would be preferable to put an additional tree in there or evergreen, we would be agreeable to that. Zaremba: Be willing to such suggestion? Stubblefield: You bet. Zaremba: Okay. Centers: Mr. Stubblefield, when you built the building, did you build it with the drive-up with the thought that you would have a tenant for that space? Stubblefield: No, we did not. Centers: Well, you built it with the drive-up, though. Stubblefield: Well, what happened was we designed the building and we got the approval. Then, shortly after we got the approval and started construction, we had a tenant who came to us and said we would take this, the east end, if you would put a drive-up window in there. Actually, while we were right in the design of the whole thing, we went back to the architect, we went back to the engineer, we went back to Planning, actually -- Centers: Good. Me,idian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting January 2, 2003 Page g of 57 Stubblefield: - and had discussions with them, can this work, and, you know, we planned the whole thing out -- Centers: And Planning told you with a CUP? Stubblefield: Yes. Centers: Okay. Stubblefield: Actually, it's kind of scary to be standing up here in front of you, I must say. Centers: Relax. Relax. How do you feel about the thought -- and I'm in agreement, if this is going to be a business that does much business at all, there is only stacking for three cars. Stubblefield: There are. Centers: So, you know, I think my most important concern is a little more -- having enough room for a couple more cars around the bend. Stubblefield: As part of the design we have -- how many over -- Siddoway: I don't know exactly, but I know it's -- Stubblefield: We were required to have 75 or 76 and I think we have 102. Siddoway: Yes. You're at least 20 over. Centers: So if you lose this one, that's no big problem. Stubblefield: It's no problem at all. We would be happy to m ark that a s loading or employee parking or -- Centers: Just around the landscape. Stubblefield: Yes. Right. Centers: Block it out. Stubblefield: We would be happy with that. Zaremba: Does that still leave a loading area for you, though? Stubblefield: You bet. Sure. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting January 2, 2003 Page 10 of 57 Zaremba: Okay. Stubblefield: This is over-designed. Zaremba: While you're there, let me ask a question that I probably would want staff and you both to respond to. Stubblefield: Okay. Zaremba: Late last year we had a request to add a drive-thru to an exiting building in the Fred Meyer Shopping Center for a coffee and yogurt shop or something. I forget what it was. Centers: Moxie Java. Zaremba: Moxie Java but, anyhow, not a full sandwich service restaurant and we put a limitation on that, that it had to continue to be that kind of business, so that the stacking lengths wouldn't go on. First, to the staff, am I correct that that went through that way if you remember? Borup: It got built. Siddoway: I know it was approved. It went through. I don't know if that limitation for the use remained as a similar use and not a restaurant or something. I don't know if that went through Council or not. I'd have to read the findings. Zaremba: Okay. Stubblefield: That has a shorter-- Zaremba: For you, would you accept a limitation like that, that if this business left, it would have to be replaced with a similar business, not something that's going to have long sandwich preparation and -- Stubblefield: Yes. Yes. Zaremba: -- 10 cars stacking up there. Stubblefield: You bet. Absolutely. This is -- it's only planned for like three to four cars to stack there and that's all we are planning on. Zaremba: Well, a coffee and ice cream shop would keep them moving fast, but if we got into full sandwich preparation, then, it wouldn't. Stubblefield: Yes. That's correct. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting January 2, 2003 Page 11 of 57 Zaremba: Okay. Centers: If I could inte~ect. I think you're being too agreeable here and limiting your use to an ice cream and coffee shop from now until 20 years from now -- what I would like, if you change businesses, then, you would have to come back for another CUP. I mean to put a condition on there that it's got to always be an ice cream coffee shop I think is real restrictive. Zaremba: I don't remember how the other one was worded. It may have been something similar to what you're suggesting. Borup: What Commissioner Centers said makes a lot more sense. I think the stacking distance was part of the problem with the other one. It was fairly short. Centers: It was traffic in the shopping center and the whole bit. Borup: Yes. Mathes: But isn't this the back of the building? Stubblefield: Yes, it is. Mathes: So pretty much all employees are going to be parking back there anyway right? Stubblefield: Yes. Mathes: Not customers from -- Stubblefield: That's correct. Mathes: Okay. Zaremba: Well, my concern is not necessarily about the other people parking, I'm just thinking if you end up having five or six cars here idling, then, you have a noise and pollution factor for the houses that are only a few feet away here, even though there is a nice wall and there is some landscaping, I am trying not to have idling cars up and down here. That was my thrust. Stubblefield: And I support that. I'm trying not to be too agreeable, but -- Zaremba: Those are my only questions. Borup: Okay anything else, Mr. Stubblefield? Stubblefield: No. Thanks very much for you time and attention. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting January 2. 2003 Page 12 of 57 Borup: You will have an opportunity to come up at the end if there is anything else you would like to add after the rest of the testimony. Do we have anyone else here to testify on this application? Now is the time to come forward. Shurte: Hi. My name is Jan Shurte and I live at 1522 East 15th, which is about four houses down on the right-hand side there. One of the things I -- just from your talking, I think you had some really good points, but one of the things I would like to bring up is that the stacking of the cars as they go around behind -- the high school is just right down the street here. I kind of think that somehow during the lunch hour or whatever, that there would be some stacking more than just three or four cars at the coffee -- and so I'm concerned about the noise pollution and I'm also concemed about air pollution, too, because of the idling cars. Not only would the noise pollution be from the speaker, but I also think it would be from the stereos, you know, that -- as you have all been in traffic and heard the booming going on. I think that -- you know, that would kind of affect us in that neighborhood also and so I'd just like to have you take that into consideration, too. I -- you know, the only suggestion I would have would be another noise buffer. I know that you're talking about the trees and stuff and I just don't know if that would be enough of a noise buffer maybe another small wall above the hoods of the cars or something. I don't know but -- and I just think it is going to stack around the corner there. Actually, another thing I wanted to say is on the other side there isn't any real drive-thrus around this area, so it's not like it's been zoned in here before, so - and I think there is good reason for that, is we get a lot of high school traffic there. Tons so, anyway, that's alii wanted to say. Thank you. Borup: Thank you. Come on up. Gathagan: Hi. My name is Michele Gathagan and I live at 1538 West 15th, the second house on the south side right hand and I do have a couple things. First, I'd like to thank Stubblefield for changing the plans and putting the five-foot walkway through. They sealed the wall, which we are very grateful for doing that. One thing I did notice with the wall, it is like two feet lower than the building itself. I noticed they raised the building up a little bit and the wall is down further. Does that make sense? With the wall starting at one point and the building starting higher up, about -- I didn't measure it, but -- Borup: Is it a six-foot wall? Gathagan: There is a six-foot eight-inch wall. Borup: That wall height is determined by City Ordinance. Gathagan: Yes. Borup: So that's why it's at that height. Gathagan: I noticed it was like -- then, the building was up higher - was raised up a little higher than what the wall is from the side -- from the back -- Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting January 2. 2003 Page 13 of 67 Zaremba: You're saying there is a ground slope, so that-- Gathagan: Yes. Zaremba: - the base of the building is actually higher than the base of the wall. Gathagan: Exactly. Zaremba: Therefore, the top heights are exaggerated. Gathagan: Yes and I do have a few questions. Who is the applicant that wants the drive-thru window and have they been around before and had to move, like you said, Albertson's Credit Union had a Moxie Java, yogurt shop, and, then, closed, so I was kind of curious, if I can ask that, who that -- Borup: Who closed? Gathagan: 0 h, they didn't close? 0 h. 0 kayo I was just curious who it was. T he second one is now understanding the way the traffic is going. I do have a high concem of radios and the stereos and the loud motors and the -- you know, the V-8's going with -- you know, where the back up stacking of the traffic is, if it got around to the back, because I am the second house in. Unfortunately, the first two houses on that side of the fence are rentals and, then, I own the property right after that. That's why some of the people aren't here for that. Centers: I was going to ask -- this is a rental home? Gathagan: That is a rental home. Centers: Okay. Gathagan: And I did also want to find out the hours of the operation and if they would change it for being a coffee shop. If they would say, oh, we are going to open at 4:00 the day after Thanksgiving, so you can get your coffees and go stand in line at ShopKo or whatever that's opening up. I did want to know, as well as the Moxie Java across the street in the other shopping center do not have a drive-thru window and they do just fine, they have doing great since they have been there. That's alii had. Zaremba: Let me -- comment one. We have in our packet that the hours of operation for the drive-thru window would be limited from 6:00 A.M. to 10:00 P.M. Sunday through Thursday and 6:00 A.M. to 11 :00 P.M. on Fridays and Saturdays, which is reasonable nighttime -- Borup: That's not saying that's what they have asked for, that's what the staff is recommending that we limit it to. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting January 2, 2003 Page 14 of 57 Zaremba: So if we approve it that way, they can't open before 6:00 ever. Gathagan: Oh. Okay. Zaremba: And, then, most nights close at 10:00 and on Friday and Saturday close at 11 :00. Gathagan: Okay. Zaremba: Let me ask you one other thing -- and this may be also for the lady who was here before. I am vaguely aware of a Taco Belli think it is, on Chinden and Glenwood, which, of course, is in Boise. They have signage on their car stacking that says, you know, in consideration of our neighbors, please, don't rev your engines, don't play your radios, and I think that works. The times that I have been over there everybody has been cooperating with it. Would that be helpful? Gathagan: It depends on the crowd. If you get like obnoxious teenage guys, you know Borup: Who are going to ignore it anyway? Gathagan: Exactly. Zaremba: Yes. Thank you. Centers: Miss? One other question. The other house that would be right adjacent, is that a rental also? Gathagan: Across this street and -- Centers: There are two houses that are adjacent. Gathagan: Yes. That is also -- Centers: Both rentals? Gathagan: Both rentals and I don't know if the lady is rent to own or not. Centers: Okay. Gathagan: I do not know. Centers: Thank you. Driemeyer: Hi. My name is Karen Driemeyer and I live at 1418 Northgate. My house is the one -- go back to that other one the other -- no, the other one. Okay. What's to Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting January 2. 2003 Page 15 of 57 prevent them from coming in from Cherry Lane and going, oh, no, I came in the wrong way and, then, trying to make -- go around the back again or -- you know what I mean? If -- especially when it's first open. I live where there isn't a wall, I live -- not the first house, but the second house where all the car lights are going to be coming in my bedroom window so, you know, how are we going to say, yes, you go around the back and this is the way you go. What's to prevent them from coming in the front right there and going, oh, I screwed up and now I have got to go all the way around the back? Centers: Well, there is an access there. Driemeyer: Right. Centers: And that access is for a purpose and I guess other occupants of the building would be coming in there also. Driemeyer: Right. Right but I mean -- Centers: And I guess it's a matter of getting use to it and maybe a sign there - they are going to have drive-up signs I'm sure, you know, so -- Driemeyer: But I know I can lie in bed at night and hear the traffic on Cherry Lane as it is and I'm not directly there. I'm, you know, a little farther, but I can still hear the noise so I just thought I'd bring that up, too. Borup: Okay. Thank you. Do we have anyone else to testify? Mr. Stubblefield, did you have any final comments, response to any of the testimony or anything? Stubblefield: With regards to the young lady's last comments, there will be, in the back of the shopping center, a right -- off of Linder is a right turn -- it's a right out, right in, okay? Yes, this is the main entrance to the shopping center right here, but going out the back side is right in, right out, so they have got one way to go. Make sense? Borup: Okay any other questions from the Commission? Zaremba: Of Mr. Stubblefield? Borup: Yes. Zaremba: Yes. Borup: You just want to mention something on the signs or-- Zaremba: Yes. I'm sticking to the idea that the signage might help a little bit. Would you be willing to put up signage along -- probably where we can't see it -- around here, around this corner-- Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting January 2. 2003 Page 16 of 57 Stubblefield: On the backside? Zaremba: -- where any additional cars might stack, just saying in consideration of our neighbors, please, turn you radios down and don't rev your engines or something like that? Stubblefield: I think that would be an excellent idea. Zaremba: I forget how the Taco Bell sign is worded, but -- Stubblefield: As a matter of fact, I made a note of it. Absolutely. That's a good idea. Zaremba: Okay. I think it would help. Borup: Are you going to be installing the speaker system, will they be doing that themselves or do you know? Stubblefield: Weare going to be working together on it, but we will end up doing it ourselves. Borup: Okay. Stubblefield: So I will have control over it. Okay? Borup: So, then, no problem with one of those directional -- a directional type -- Stubblefield: If you have to call maintenance, yes, I will come down and fix it. Borup: No. I mean a directional type speaker. I don't know the difference, but I -- you can sure tell a difference and I'm sure the salesman of whoever would be able to tell you that. Stubblefield: We will get it right. Borup: Okay. Commissioners? Zaremba: I move the Public Hearing be closed. Mathes: Second. Borup: Motion and second to close the Public Hearing. All in favor? MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT. Borup: Any discussion? Me,idian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting January 2, 2003 Page 17 of 57 Centers: Well, it's really -- Mr. Chairman, in my opinion, it's an easy one, because the application is so agreeable. I think we have satisfied the neighbors t hat have come tonight with a little signage and I would also like to see a sign there as they enter from Cherry Lane that said something -- drive-in -- or drive-thru access, please, enter on Linder Road because I agree with you, ma'am-- Borup: Well, you can't come down Cherry Lane and enter from Linder, though. Centers: Right here. No but there should -- what we are talking about is a sign here, Mr. Chairman, that says improper access for drive-thru facility or something like that to let the people know that if you want to get to the drive-thru, you come back around this way. Borup: Yes. Centers: And, then, after a period of time, I think even less than a year, they will get used to it and the sign wouldn't even be read anymore, but -- then, I'd also like to see this parking space removed and extend the landscaping in front of it and the applicant has no problem with that. Then, the signage, as Commissioner Zaremba pointed out, out of courtesy to the neighbors, please, lower your radio and -- Borup: What do the Commissioners feel about another tree right in this area, maybe an evergreen or something? Centers: Yes. Zaremba: I think that's a good idea. On Commissioner Centers' suggestion, I like the idea of having directional signage on that Cherry Lane driveway. I'm not sure that I would steer them back out to Linder, but at least make sure they know that they need to go around the building this way. Centers: Yes something that-- Zaremba: Inside the property. Centers: Right. Exactly. Zaremba: Okay. Access to drive-thru or something like that, left here or whatever it -- Centers: Right. Zaremba: Some signage that directs them around the building. Those are in addition to the conditions that staff h as already s aid. I see the issue being 55 decibels, a little signage, some evergreen trees and that one parking spot. Mr. Chairman? Borup: Commissioner Zaremba. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting January 2, 2003 Page 18 of 57 Zaremba: I move we forward to the City Council recommending approval of Item 6 on our Agenda, CUP 02-042, request for a Conditional Use Permit for a drive-thru window for a coffee and ice cream shop in a CoN zone in the Linder Crossing Retail Center by Stubblefield Development Company. Southeast corner of West Cherry Lane and North Linder Road, to include all staff comments, with the following additions. That the - an attempt be made to find a directional speaker and that in all cases the sound level be limited to 55 decibels at the property line. That the applicant supply some signage at the Cherry Lane entrance directing users around the property in the right direction and some signage behind the building asking cooperation in keeping the sound down. That the trees in the landscape planter along the south and the east end of the south planter be evergreen, with one additional tree to the right of what looks like a trash enclosure -- to the east of what looks like a trash enclosure. That the one parking spot south of the unit that will have the drive-thru, that parking spot be removed and landscape replace it, and that this Conditional Use for the approval of the drive-thru will expire if a different business goes in there. Centers: I have a question on the 55 decibels. You mentioned at the wall or is that at the speaker? Siddoway: It's at the wall. Centers: It's at the wall? Zaremba: I think the previous one was at the property line. Centers: Okay. I second that. Borup: Motion and second. Any discussion? All in favor? Anyopposed? Thank you. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT Item 7. Public Hearing: CUP 02-044 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a sports bar and grill in a CoG zone for Muggsy's Bar & Grill by Michael McGuinness - south of East Fairview Avenue, east of North Locust Grove Road on East Wilson Lane: Borup: The next item is Public Hearing CUP 02-044, request for a Conditional Use Permit for a sports bar and grill in a CoG zone for Muggsy's Bar & Grill by Michael McGuinness. This is south of Fairview Avenue and east of North Locust Grove on Wilson Lane. We will open this Public Hearing and start with the staff report. Siddoway: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission. The proposed Muggsy's Bar and Grill is near the intersection of Locust Grove and Fairview. The other surrounding businesses include Hollywood Video, Wingers, D&B, and Eddie's Bakery. You should have a staff report dated December 19th. The Site Plan is in compliance with City Ordinances. Go through this just a little bit. You can see those existing