HomeMy WebLinkAbout2025-05-20 Work Session Meridian City Council Work Session May 20, 2025.
A Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 4:34 p.m. Tuesday, May
20, 2025, by Council Vice-President Elizabeth Strader.
Members Present: Luke Cavener, Liz Strader, John Overton, Doug Taylor, Anne Little
Roberts and Brian Whitlock.
Members Absent: Robert Simison.
Other Present: Chris Johnson, Bill Nary, Caleb Hood, Bill Parsons, Lacy Ooi, Christena
Barney, Laurelei McVey, Brandon Frasier, Steve Taulbee and Dean Willis.
ROLL-CALL ATTENDANCE
_X_ Liz Strader _X_ Brian Whitlock
_X_Anne Little Roberts _X_ John Overton
_X_ Doug Taylor _X_Luke Cavener
Mayor Robert E. Simison
Strader: Good afternoon. Today is Tuesday, May 20th, 2025, and we are going to
begin our 4:30 City Council work session. Mr. Clerk, if you could go ahead and call
attendance, please.
ADOPTION OF AGENDA
Strader: Okay. Thank you. Next up we have adoption of the agenda.
Overton: Council Vice-President? Move that we --
Strader: Councilman Overton.
Overton: Move that we adopt the agenda with no changes.
Little Roberts: Second.
Strader: Okay. We have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda with no changes.
Is there any discussion? All right. All those in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed
nay? The ayes have it and the agenda is adopted.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
CONSENT AGENDA [Action Item]
1. Approve Minutes of the May 6, 2025 City Council Work Session
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2. Approve Minutes of the May 6, 2025 City Council Regular Meeting
3. Life Church Addition Water Main Easement (ESMT-2025-0050)
4. Final Plat for McKay Farm Subdivision, by Todd Tucker, Boise Hunter
Homes, located at 5875 S. Eagle Rd.
5. Final Order for Apex Northwest No. 6, by Brighton Corporation,
generally located near the northwest corner of S. Locust Grove Rd. &
E. Lake Hazel Rd.
6. Mutual Termination Agreement to the Agreement for Disassembly,
Transport, and Ownership of Historic Double-Silo Barn Components
Between City of Meridian and Endurance Holdings LLC
7. Development Agreement (Farmstone Crossing Subdivision H-2023-
0045) Between City of Meridian and Endurance Holdings LLC and
Challenger Development for Property Located at 820 S. Black Cat Rd.
8. Resolution No. 25-2518: A Resolution of the City Council of the City
of Meridian Reappointing Tom LeClaire to Seat 8 and Ryan Lancaster
to Seat 9 of the Meridian Transportation Commission; and Providing
an Effective Date
Strader: Next up we have approval of the Consent Agenda.
Overton: Council Vice-President.
Strader: Councilman Overton.
Overton: I move that we approve the Council agenda, for the Council Vice-President or
Council President, if he shows up, to sign and the clerk to attest.
Little Roberts: Second.
Strader: Okay. We have a motion and a second. Just to clarify with the motion maker
if that was a motion to approve the Consent Agenda?
Overton: That is correct. Motion to approve the Consent Agenda.
Strader: Fantastic. Okay. We have a motion and a second to approve the Consent
Agenda. Is there any discussion? Okay. With that everyone go ahead and signify your
approval by saying aye. Okay. Opposed? The ayes have it and the Consent Agenda is
approved.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
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ITEMS MOVED FROM THE CONSENT AGENDA [Action Item]
DEPARTMENT /COMMISSION REPORTS [Action Item]
9. Public Works Week Proclamation
Strader: Next up we have Item 9, the Public Works Proclamation. If you will, please,
join me at the podium. Okay. Thank you, everyone, for joining. I would like to go
ahead and read this proclamation for Public Works Week. Whereas the City of Meridian
residents have peace of mind with every faucet turned on, shower taken, toilet flushed,
thanks to the professional employees of the Meridian Public Works team and whereas
each often unseen essential worker, engineer, inspector, operator, technician is
committed to protecting our health, safety, environment and quality of life through the
24/7 supply and distribution of clean and safe water, efficient collection and treatment of
wastewater and the management of solid waste and whereas the Meridian Public
Works Department educates the community about the work they do through informative
and engaging public outreach and whereas People, Purpose, Presence is the theme for
the 2025 National Public Works Week and it represents the often unseen, steadfast and
heroic efforts put forth by the Public Works professionals. Therefore, I, Elizabeth
Strader, on behalf of Robert E. Simison, proclaim the week of May 18th to May 24th,
2025, as Meridian Public Works Week in the City of Meridian and call upon all citizens
and civic organizations to acquaint themselves with and to recognize the substantial
contributions which Public Works employees make every day to our health, safety,
comfort and quality of life. Thank you. Okay. With that I would like to turn it over to
Director McVey to share any remarks that she would like to provide.
McVey: Well, thank you so much. First of all, we appreciate the Council and Mayor's
support of Public Works this week and all the weeks of the year. What we do is
definitely not easy or cheap and we appreciate your guys' continued support for the
technical, the projects, the staff, all of the things that make it happen. Really want to
just appreciate and acknowledge all of the Public Works staff that also make things
happen and invite everybody to our Public Works Week Expo, which is on Thursday
from 4:00 to 7:00 out front of City Hall. It is a really fun, family friendly event where you
can come see all of the big Public Works equipment and informational and educational
demonstrations from our staff.
Strader: Thank you so much and certainly speaking on behalf of the whole Council
when I say that the Public Works infrastructure is critical infrastructure and that we very
much appreciate your team and all that they do for us. If you don't mind we could take a
quick picture here.
Whitlock: Madam Vice-President?
Strader: Yes.
Whitlock: May I make a comment?
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Strader: Absolutely.
Whitlock: I had the opportunity last night with Laurelei and her team to do the Go With
The Flow tour and it was a sell out again. It's in high demand and our residents in our
community are just interested in the great work that our city employees do and it's pretty
amazing. So, actually, had one of the attendees, a constituent, send me an e-mail this
afternoon and just like to share what he said. He said I thought last night's event was
first class, fun and informative. As mentioned I have always been impressed and happy
with all aspects of our city management and departments. So, I just wanted to pass that
along and say well done. It was a great tour, despite the rain, but it was a great tour
and I think people left better informed about the great work that our city employees do
every day on their behalf. So, I just wanted to say thanks.
Strader: Uh-huh. Councilman Whitlock, thank you so much for providing those
comments. Are there any other comments from the Council? Okay.
10. Fiscal Year 2025 Budget Amendment in the amount of $37,000 for
Streetlight Maintenance and Repair
Strader: All right. Since there are no other comments, let's go ahead and move on to
our fiscal year 2025 budget amendment in the amount of 370,00 dollars for streetlight
maintenance and repair. I would like to recognize again Director McVey. Go ahead.
McVey: Thank you, Council. So, this evening I have a budget amendment in the
amount of 37,000 for our streetlight maintenance and repair line items. So, this is not
the line item that we use for special projects or LED upgrades, it's specifically for routine
streetlight outages, issues, damages, those kind of things that we find throughout the
year. So, we currently have about 12,000 dollars left in this line item and at our average
expenditure rate we should be running out of that somewhere at the end of this month.
So, we have really two options, bring forward a budget amendment so we can continue
to fix and repair streetlights that go out through the remaining part of this fiscal year or
we can also stop and hold those outages and wait until we get a new budget in October.
We don't recommend that just because some of these it's important to address in a
timely manner. So, we are coming forward to you to essentially ask for additional
maintenance money to be able to finish out -- or maintenance and repair money to be
able to finish out the remainder of this fiscal year.
Strader: Okay. Thank you, Laurelei. Are there any questions? Okay. I guess I just
have a simple question, which is a clarification about whether this comes out of the
General Fund or whether this comes out of Public Works in the Enterprise Fund or if it is
a combination of both.
McVey: Great question. Council Woman Strader, it comes out of the General Fund.
So, this would come out of fund balance on the General Fund.
Strader: Okay. Thank you. I think this is pretty straightforward. All right.
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Taylor: Madam Vice-President?
Overton: Madam Vice-President. Oh.
Strader: Councilman Taylor.
Taylor: Yeah. I would just make a note. I think as we have discussed this over the last
couple of years, always try to maintain a very right on the nose budget line here with
respect to not having more than is necessary. So, I -- and I -- as you recall this was a
pretty robust discussion from a couple years ago. We have always viewed adequate
streetlights as much a public safety component as anything. So, I think this makes
some sense. I don't think we want to see a gap in sort of fixing that which is broken.
This isn't for the upgrades and for the new stuff, this is to kind of fix the things that are
broken. So, I think it makes some sense and when we are ready I will make a motion to
approve that.
Strader: Okay. Fantastic. Councilman Overton, did you have a question or a
comment?
Overton: Just a quick comment. Some of it's already been said, but repairing our
streetlights I mean not only is it public safety, it's traffic safety, it's -- it's part of our entire
community's well being. It's -- to me it's part of our critical infrastructure. We can't
afford to fall behind on that. It's all about quality of life here and we take that very
seriously and absolutely be supporting this.
Strader: Okay. Fantastic. I think at this point a motion would be in order. Councilman
Taylor?
Taylor: Move that we approve a fiscal year 2025 budget amendment in the amount of
37,000 dollars for streetlight maintenance and repair.
Overton: Second.
Strader: Okay. Great. We have a motion and a second to approve the fiscal year 2025
budget amendment. Mr. Clerk, would you go ahead and call roll, please.
Roll Call: Cavener, yea; Strader, yea; Overton, yea; Little Roberts, yea; Taylor, yea;
Whitlock, yea.
Strader: Okay. With that everyone is in favor and the fiscal year 2025 budget
amendment in the amount of 37,000 dollars is approved.
MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
Cavener: Real quick, Madam Vice-President? Really quick just want to recognize -- I
walked in right before the vote. I just for the record wanted everyone to be clear, I was
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listening on -- on YouTube as I was driving in. Was following the conversation. Council
Member Whitlock, loved hearing the comments from your constituents about Public
Works week. I share that. So, apologies for being late to our Public Works team and
much appreciation to our great Council Vice-President who did a great job of picking
things up on a very last minute basis. So, thank you very much.
Strader: Council President Cavener, it is excellent to have you.
11. Employee Health Benefits Plan Trust Update
Strader: And with that let's go ahead and move into Item 11, the employee health
benefits plan trust update and we will recognize the city attorney Bill Nary to provide
some remarks.
Nary: Thank you, Members of Council. Here to talk about the health trust. When we
did our presentation last -- a few weeks ago a question was brought up about
remarketing the plan or how that would be done and so I wanted to put together a
presentation to kind of explain how this type of plan, because it's partially self-funded by
the city and managed by a health trust, that it's different than maybe a traditional --
traditional health plan you may have seen in other circumstances or like Council
Member Overton, who has been here a while with the city, we previously had a fully
funded plan that is done differently -- marketed differently. So, this is different. So, I
wanted to make sure you understood that and if that's the direction the Council wants us
to go we certainly can. There we go. Okay. So, basically, the difference between the
two, as I was saying, is we are talking about a self-funded trust, which is what we are.
So, with marketing, then, we are looking at really the service side so now. We are not
looking at just the basic costs of the healthcare services, but, actually, the services that
are being provided by the vendors here. So, there is administrative fees and service
fees. There is a stop loss. There is a premium as to how much that is, what that is and
what they are going to pay for above that, as well as is a self-funded plan there is, you
know, the risk and the estimates and the total claims experienced for the year is also,
again, managed by the trust. So, it's slightly different than the model of a fully insured
plan. Below where the insurance company evaluates the risk they determine the set
premium they charge, just like your homeowners insurance, just like your own -- other --
if you have another type of insurance or something else out there in the marketplace,
you have either used the exchange system that the State provides or something else to
provide healthcare for a different member of your family and some other function --
some other way. There are other ways those are done, but that's what a fully insured
plan does. Employers, again, don't control the amount of the premium and the
premiums can vary greatly from one carrier to the next. So, that one is more than what
traditional I think the average person might think of when we are remarketing, that you
are going to be looking at a cost issue. When you have a fund -- self-funded plan like
we have you are looking primarily more on the service side, so just a slightly different
model from what you may have been used to. So, again, a market pulse check is
appropriate and one of the questions I have had, both from Council Members or
employees or the Mayor and, in fact, Council President Cavener I spoke about, is I think
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it's important both for us as the trust, as well as you as the elected officials, to be able to
show the public that we are getting the best value. You are obviously looking for the
best value for the services and the costs that the taxpayers are helping pay for and we
want to make sure we are getting the best value for the employees as well. So, a pulse
check is a very common practice for these types of self-funded plans and if we did that
we would put an RFP out and we would be looking at the market. Now, again, unlike a
lot of larger states or different states where there is a number of carriers or options that
exist in the market, Idaho is a little more limited. There are two predominant carriers in
the market, that's Blue Cross and Regents, which is also Blue Shield, and, then, there
are smaller ones PacificSource, Select Health. So, there is smaller types of vendors out
there. They aren't quite as expansive or as extensive as Blue Shield and Blue Cross
are in our market, but they are out there. So, we would do -- if we were going to do this
we would do a pulse check with all of those vendors as to what services they could
provide to the trust. Blue Cross and Regents have fairly similar networks and, again,
most of you -- or most of our employees understand that a lot of healthcare these days
are driven by networks. They are driven by what's within or outside of the network and
that usually drives what the cost of the service that's going to be provided. Blue Cross
and Regents have the largest. Again most people as you know in this area
predominantly are driven to two primary vendors for medical services. That's St. Luke's
and St. AI's. That's where the majority of the services are held for a majority of services
in their community and throughout the state of Idaho. So, that's where most of the
services are going to be and Blue Cross and Blue Shield are the ones that have a
majority of those vendors. PacificSource has a full PPO network and it's slightly more
expensive. It's a little bit different, again, because it's smaller or the narrower options by
St. Luke's or St. Al's that are also used through Select Health, which is a St. Luke's plan.
Again, it's a little bit smaller, so as you would imagine with less coverage and less -- less
vendors available to them the cost is going to be slightly higher, but that's just the nature
of the way the marketplace is. So, typically, again, cost savings you are looking for, you
know, it's a factor, unlike with a -- maybe a typical -- like I said what a general person
might think of in the public of an RFP where you would be putting out a bid for a price
for a particular product, that's a factor of consideration in this type of plan, but it's not the
sole driver. It's certainly a part of it, but you have to look at what the cost is, because,
again, without at least, you know, some significant cost savings and five percent is really
just a market driven number and, again, it's a factor, it's not the only factor, but you have
to look at all the disruption or changes that can have with folks. Some people are based
on the plan information that's provided, the doctors that are within network of one and
maybe not the other. Most are in the same. Not all of them are in the same. What's
covered and what's not covered. Again, between the two different services in Blue
Shield -- or Blue Shield Regents and Blue Cross, there can be slight differences. What
documentations are needed, what -- the cards the employees have. I will tell you as a
member of the trust and a member of our benefits committee we have lengthy
conversations on the impact of employees when the card is going to change or when
the card is the one that is given by the health carrier, the one that you get annually or
can get annually for your health one or the one that's for your flex spending if you
choose to use the flex spending. We have a lengthy discussion, because we know it
impacts folks. It's difficult for people to deal with changes, even the slightest changes
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and they get confused that the numbers are different and things change slightly and we
want to make sure there is a seamless transition for both if that happens. So, the card's
changing, the number is changing, the billing -- the billing services can sometimes be
different between different carriers or different users and different service providers. So,
sometimes you will have to re-enter all your information. Now, sometimes you may only
have to do it once. So, it may not be that inconvenient, but it is something, again, to
have to inform employees and also trying not to overwhelm our resources staff on the
same side, because people now get confused and they have to call and say I don't
understand. I went to my doctor, they wouldn't take my card. Oh, I need to change it. I
didn't know that. I got a different card. Oh, I didn't see it. You know, again, lots of -- lots
of issues. Just, again, we want our -- our primary goal always with the trust and with the
HR help is to keep employees informed. That's really the goal. Make sure they are
informed, that they know what they need to do, what they can do and hopefully take
care of a lot of those types of issues before they get there. Nothing worse than going to
the doctor and you are not well or you are having to deal with a health condition of some
sort and you got to bring the right card on the right day and make sure you have all the
paperwork that you need, you want to hopefully get all that done ahead of time. So,
again, lots of -- you know, a bunch of things that we also will factor in if -- if we do this
and look -- evaluate between service providers what impacts that could be, how -- and,
then, what would be the impact of staff to make some changes if that's the decision that
we decide to go with. Again, our organizations often can remain for many years with
one carrier for a lot of reasons and, again, we have benefited a lot from our relationship
with Blue Cross. I can't emphasize enough and I think I mentioned it a number of times
in our last presentation, we have developed a good relationship with Blue Cross,
because of our continued ongoing partnership with them and we have had situations --
and these are just some bullets that we have identified from the trust side of how it has
worked in the past. Again, not a reason that we can evaluate what's in the marketplace,
it's just factors that we have to look at. We have had expedited implementation of some
changes -- biosimilars I mentioned the last time, originally when Blue Cross brought this
opportunity for some changes to our plan that would help potentially lower some costs
for some pharmaceuticals, based on the way their program worked our best rollout
opportunity was October 1 . At our last trust meeting last month we agreed and
authorized that to go forward, so we could at least get it in the pipeline so we could
make an October 1 change. As our -- as our representative that we worked with at Blue
Cross went back and talked further with their -- their staff and their higher ups, they
open to July 1 . So, again, that was very helpful. I think that, again, was part of our
partnership. Dispute issues have been handled pretty rapidly, again, because we have
worked closely with them with our departments, like Human Resources and Blue Cross,
they expedite our work, you know, again, we are dealing with the same people, the
same personnel, they are dealing with the same staff here. That's very helpful. HR has
direct access to their dedicated service team. Again, that's really helpful from a
customer standpoint and it also helps resolve a lot of employee issues. You know,
oftentimes employees get stuck in this, for lack of a better word, trying situation with any
type of insurance or any type of vendor, whether it's with a medical provider, hospital,
doctor office, something else, pharmaceutical, pharmacy and sometimes you have to
work through like Blue Cross as the provider. Again, the longer term commitment we
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have had with them and the working relationship we have had has been very positive
and that's been helpful to assist employees through some of these situations that we
have had. We get rate renewals as early as we can. We try to get them in May. We
have our trust meeting -- it is actually tomorrow. We are hoping to get some feedback
as soon as possible. Obviously, if we want to have something by the budget time if
possible whenever we can, so that we can bring that forward and make sure we are --
stay in line with the city's budgeting system. They do recognize that. It has taken a
while to get there. I mean it's certainly been an ongoing process and a lot of that is both
the way the carriers operate in the state, as well as how the state operates in a way
budgeting works. So, it is -- it is an ongoing thing. Diabetes -- diabetes no co-pay
program, that was a really good example where, again, our working relationship with
Blue Cross really helped. We had some changes in the Blue Cross program a couple of
years ago and we had some employees that were impacted by this diabetes program
with insulin pumps. The general program for Blue Cross did not cover that when we --
they made some changes and we had made some changes and we were unaware from
the trust side how widely that would impact and -- and I think this also speaks probably
more -- probably more relevant to the trust value for employees than just Blue Cross's
value for the employees. If you are dealing with a fully funded trust where you are not
dealing with staff personnel that can address these concerns and actually can advocate
for an issue or concern that you might have as an employee, this particular one -- and I
will not get the exact numbers right, but it affected less than ten employees and in a
large program where we have 600 employees with multiple dependents -- so, you have
a plan that has a couple thousand people or more in it, many plans are not going to be
that concerned and not from a callous standpoint or an uncaring standpoint, but it's hard
to sometimes get down to an impact on five to seven, eight people out of a couple
thousand and oftentimes in a larger program, without the connection that employees
and the trust can have for the employees, those -- sometimes those issues get lost and
to be fair this particular one came to the trust board, they asked about this concern, it
was impactful to them, there was some additional costs that were significant diabetes
costs and one of the things that are really important and we have always emphasized
with the trust is preventative care for certain types of conditions and illnesses is
significantly more important than people realize and diabetes is one of them. It can lead
to serious health conditions, much more expensive health conditions untreated or
allowed, because what happens with many people, unfortunately, costs will drive some
of those issues and people will seek less treatment or less care because of cost and
that's unfortunate and we, as a trust, have always pivoted the other way. We want to
provide the best that we can for employees, but also to stay in front of these serious
health issues. You know, high blood pressure is another one. It's a very easy type of
medical condition to control early if you pay attention to it, take care of it and address it.
It is very expensive to wait until it gets out of control. Diabetes is the same. So, the
trust board felt it was important we advocated to add this program back into our plan
with Blue Cross. We worked with them and they agreed and we added this back in and
covered those few employees. Again, I think that's probably as much from the trust
perspective, but also with Blue Cross. So, those are the things we would be looking at.
Again, if that's the Council's desire we can certainly put that out and see what the
market would show and if there are some savings or benefits that could be of value to
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the city from both a cost and service standpoint, we certainly can evaluate that and take
a look at that if that's what your desire is.
Strader: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Nary. And with that any questions?
Little Roberts: Madam Vice-President, Mr. President -- not quite sure, honestly, who --
Madam Vice-President.
Strader: Council Woman Little Roberts, go ahead.
Little Roberts: Madam Vice-President. Bill, you and I had a chat about the last
presentation --
Nary: Uh-huh.
Little Roberts: -- and so a couple of questions that kind of came out of that so that the
rest of the Council is aware, because I think one of the things that got all of our attention
was -- was it last year that the potential -- the increase was very very low or
nonexistent --
Nary: Correct.
Little Roberts: -- and, then, this year we are looking at a big jump and when you and I
discussed it I think it came across a little bit different than the presentation we had had
or the discussion we had had when you were in front of all the Council. So, I didn't
know if you wanted to kind of clarify that a bit would be helpful.
Nary: Well, again, part of it is, again, we have been trying to right size it. I think Council
Member Taylor mentioned that on the other one, that we have been trying to right size a
lot of our budgeting. So, I think what -- if I remember correctly, we had a big surplus a
couple of years ago. So, we had a fairly big remainder, which we could, then, afford to
absorb some costs and impacts last year. So, last year we had a zero percent increase.
This year the proposed is about 17 percent. In talking with Finance they anticipate
normally about an eight percent annual increase on the average anyway, so to them it
was not that impactful, they had kind of planned and forecasted that there would be
some cost and participated with a zero in one year that we would likely have more. The
concern ends up coming partly because we -- we took that surplus and used that to pay
down or -- and absorb some of those costs, because we are trying to stay within a fairly
tight budget amount for this trust and so the other side of that means that potentially if
we miss that target, which I think I mentioned last time we did and we are going to be
coming back and bringing forward a budget amendment for some adjustments to our
reserve to stay within that tight window, it gives us a little less cushion, but we were
trying not to build a -- you know, our direction for the trust was not to build a larger
reserve, but to try to keep the trust pretty narrow and so, therefore, that's where we had,
you know, a good year, sort of rode that through another year and now we are kind of
back to where we are and we should be kind of riding the ship and kind of keeping at a
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fairly steady pace going forward we hope, so -- did that answer your question? I'm sorry
if I missed that.
Little Roberts: Madam Vice-President. Bill, yes, that part it did, but we can finish the
discussion on this and I have a different question.
Nary: Okay.
Cavener: Council Vice-President Strader.
Strader: Council President Cavener, go ahead.
Cavener: Thank you. Bill, now I'm -- I'm confused and so I guess I'm going to try and
follow this from a step one to step two. My first question is last year was there a
proposed increase in our health insurance? Yes or no?
Nary: No.
Cavener: No. So, Madam Vice-President, a couple follow-ups if I may.
Strader: Go ahead.
Cavener: The trust didn't use reserve dollars to pay down anything, because there was
no proposed increase.
Nary: Council President Cavener, there was no proposed increases and I am not going
to pretend to be the expert on that. There was no proposed increase. We did have
enough funds to cover all the costs that we had and that's all we had, but we don't have
a surplus beyond what I reported to you the last time. So, I don't know that -- I don't
know if that answers your question, but we didn't have an increase and all of that comes
out of just what the cost of the program is. How much do we have to fund any cost of
the program.
Cavener: Okay. So, the funds the city provided in the budget covered the cost of
operating the program and you didn't request any additional funds, because the funds
that you had available met the request of the vendor.
Nary: Yes.
Cavener: Okay. So, no proposed increase. So -- okay. And, Council, maybe that's
where I was confused. It made it sound in your explanation that the trust chose to pay
down some of that increase to keep something more constrained, but that's not what
you are trying to convey to us.
Nary: No. And I'm sorry I made it seem that way. What it is is because we didn't have
-- because we had the additional funding we didn't need additional funding last year,
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because there was no proposed increase. We could absorb the total cost of the
program. But, again, with the changes in the healthcare and the cost of rising
healthcare we can't maintain that without some assessment and we didn't come for an
adjustment last year. We did the year before.
Cavener: Which is why you are coming, then, before us for a budget amendment.
Nary: Right.
Cavener: Thank you. That helps provide me some clarification.
Strader: Council Woman Little Roberts, did you have additional questions?
Little Roberts: Yes. Thank you. Bill, we also talked about an employee that had a
battery -- needed a battery replacement and it took weeks. So, I was pleasantly
surprised to see that it's generally a much shorter time, but did you get any additional
information about why that was denied, why it took so long -- the whole process,
because it was weeks.
Nary: So -- no, I didn't, because the employee has to bring that and I can't reach out to
the employee. So, if you want to share with the employee to bring that forward, I can't.
Now, I'm not saying he hasn't run that and the person hasn't done it. He didn't come to
the board. I don't know that he didn't go to HR. But I also don't feel comfortable to go to
an employee and say Council Member Little Roberts talked to me about this. So, I
really need them to do that.
Little Roberts: Thank you. I think we have had a little bit of miscommunication there,
because I did share our conversation with him and so I think he thought someone was
going to reach out to him, but I will tell him that he needs to initiate the conversation.
Nary: My misunderstanding, too, so I apologize.
Little Roberts: Thank you.
Taylor: Council Vice-President?
Strader: Yep. Councilman Taylor.
Taylor: Bill, thank you. I'm not sure if you can answer this question or if you have
access to this information. I'm wondering, though, with insurance higher utilization, you
know, it's hard to predict that sometimes, kind of curious if you know if -- sort of
explosion of the use of GLP drugs has, over the last year to two years or whatever that
time frame is, has that been part of what we have seen in this big jump over this last
year with the proposed rates that we are looking at? I know just in looking at some
other things that much higher use and, you know, that kind of trickles down into added
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expenses, but I'm just curious if there is any correlation between the higher usage
demand there in terms of what it means for our rates.
Nary: You know, Members of Council, Council Member, that's a great question and
certainly there is a greater use of that particular type of drugs now than there used to
be. I have not seen it on our list of higher costs that related to the program, so I don't
know that. But certainly can bring that to our board meeting tomorrow and at least get
some answers for that, because I don't know.
Taylor: And quick follow up if I may.
Strader: Yes.
Taylor: I think that would be interesting to know if you have the aggregate data of how
much we spent this last year on that versus previous and the number -- how much has
been used, because I'm only guessing, but it would seem that there is probably
something there that might lead to some of the higher costs. But I would be interested
to know if you have the answers to that.
Nary: Yeah. We could certainly find out a little more. I mean my -- my little bit of
knowledge is -- I mean, again, the people that are being prescribed that type of
medication that are related to a health condition I'm sure has grown up. I know many
that use that type of -- of treatment and that are not necessarily health condition related,
but maybe -- may not have the same coverage for that drug particularly, so I don't know
what they are paying for it, but I don't have enough information to tell you beyond that.
Strader: Actually, along those lines, maybe just one thing. I have been curious about
whether we wanted to look at like a pilot program around a compounded version of that
medication for certain employees. It's just an idea, but it seems like along the lines of
what you are discussing where, you know, sometimes prevention can really yield
benefits. The sticker shock on those medications is really astounding. So, I -- you
know, I don't think paying full boat outside of a regular medical condition would work, but
just thinking creatively along those lines and, then, I had another question and, then, I
will go to everybody else to see what -- what they have. When is the last time we put
this out to bid and what is the cadence of reviewing providers that you would
recommend?
Nary: I don't know. I saw Christena back there. I don't know if Christiana knows when
is the last time we actually put out this -- you are talking about since we -- since we
adopted the self-funded program? So, that's if we did that. So, that's been five years,
you know. I don't know if we have any -- I don't recall before that.
Strader: Ms. Barney, go ahead.
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Barney: Yeah. I believe the last time we went out to bid for a medical provider would
have been when we went self-funded. But I will have to double check when that was.
And what was your other question?
Strader: Yeah. Just like from a human resources standpoint for a self-funded plan, like
what is the cadence of RFP'ing that service or how often would you typically expect that
we would go and actually have a competitive bidding process on that service?
Barney: Yeah. So, as Bill stated earlier in the presentation, we typically don't do RFPs
for a self-funded plan. It's market pulse checks and you would usually do those every
three to five years.
Strader: Okay. Thank you. Okay.
Cavener: Council Vice-President?
Strader: Council President Cavener.
Cavener: Mr. Nary, when you were kind of going over there were only two vendors that
-- kind of in the marketplace that would likely meet our needs and would respond, can
you help me understand why don't other national health carriers that I see kind of
advertise on the news, your Humanas, your HCls, like why -- why are they not eligible to
participate in --
Barney: It's not that they are not eligible necessarily, it's that they are not responding to
our requests for a market. Like Bill had said earlier, we are looking at network and
specifically for self-funded we are looking at service more than anything else. Are they
able to service in our network in our area and, then, are they able to provide the service
that we -- that we need. And so with a self-funded plan you are looking for a niche
provider.
Cavener: Understood. Okay.
Barney: And so when you are getting broad networks like that they are not able to fill
that niche.
Cavener: Understood. Thank you.
Nary: If I could probably maybe add on to that. I think, at least from my experience,
that as much as we think we are such a large growing market, we are fairly small
population wise in reality and I think with Idaho when you have such a diversity of land
and population that's so spread out between north Idaho and eastern Idaho and -- and
the Treasury Valley, it's very difficult for a vendor to be part of this market. I mean
because of just the vastness of the state. Again, you have big states like California, but
you have a lot of pockets of a lot of population along a fairly, you know, consistent
corridor. We don't have that. But that's my only other thought of that.
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Whitlock: Madam Vice-President?
Strader: Councilman Whitlock, go ahead.
Whitlock: Mr. Nary, just a -- kind of a follow on to Councilman Taylor's question about
what's driving the cost. If I recall from your last presentation, again, you said it tonight
as well, the -- Finance anticipates about an eight percent increase every year. Last year
we had zero. This year we are projecting 17. So, it kind of averages out over the two
year period. But it would be interesting to know why we go from zero to 17 and is it the
GLPs? Is it age banding? It would be nice to have an understanding of what the
factors are. I mean is our employee base -- are we getting older and costing more? If
so we have got to come to a recognition of that, that those costs will go up. Is it the use
of these specialized drugs or other things? So, it would be helpful to know what some
of the drivers are.
Nary: Absolutely.
Barney: I can -- I don't know if this one is on. I can talk a little bit to that. We do review
our large claims every month and I will look at the GLPs. I'm not seeing those hit the --
at least the top of the list. What is hitting the top of the list is like Humira, t hat is a huge
one, and that's one of the ones that we are moving to the biosimilars. But our cancers,
our heart attacks, our preemie babies -- and those are just, unfortunately, things that we
can't predict. But like with the heart attacks -- even some of those cancers, some of that
preventative care and what we really are trying to promote is, you know, primary care
providers, going in and getting your wellness checks, getting yourself, you know, that
preventative care, so that you can find those things early, so that you don't have those
higher claim costs. That's really where we see cost savings on our plan and that's really
what we want to try to get to and promote, because that ultimately over time is going to
save the plan the most amount of money and, really, be the best -- most beneficial for
our employee health overall.
Nary: Yeah. A few -- a few years ago when we looked at those higher cost drugs,
Stelara was number one every month. It was incredibly expensive. But through some
of the cost savings and some of the changes in the plan, construction and design, that
cost of that particular drug has gone down. So, it doesn't hit the top of our list, whereas
Humira does, and we did ask that question at our trust meeting last month is, okay, if we
add this one to this biosimilar, what else is there? What else can we get there? Well, at
the moment that is the only one, but Blue Cross is evaluating additional ones that we
may be able to add in 2026 that might be able to add it onto that program. That's why
we started to look at it now while we can and at least add in the one that is expensive
and is on our list, but whatever else we can add to that as it grows. That's kind of where
we just -- we are at at the moment.
Strader: Okay. I have one further question. Could you maybe explain -- I noticed you
are using the terminology of taking a pulse check, as opposed to an RFP. Did you want
to talk about -- or is there a distinction there between kind of like what you view as a
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pulse check versus an RFP that would go through our procurement division, typically
with like large property, planned equipment or contracts. If you could just speak to that.
What would you envision if the City Council was to pursue some sort of market
competition for this particular service?
Nary: You were involved with the other one --
Barney: Yes. So, as Bill stated earlier, the -- the trust is actually what's -- the entity that
is contracting with a medical provider and so we don't do an RFP that goes through the
purchasing and all of that. We do a market pulse check. We check and see what the
medical carriers are offering as far as those service fees and things like that, make a
decision on the carrier that we want to go to that's going to provide the service and the
fees that we -- the trust feels comfortable contracting with and, then, we provide those
contracts. We would likely bring that forward to make sure that the Council is
comfortable with that, as you are a large funding body and, then, we would move
forward with that. But because we don't have to go through the city's purchasing, it's
not a formal RFP.
Strader: Maybe a follow up. You don't have to go through it, but could you -- I guess a
question I would have or are there resources that you might consider leveraging by
using the procurements approach to -- I mean because this is what they do all day;
right? Is competitive processes, so --
Nary: Well -- and I think -- I mean -- I think the -- whether we call it a pulse check or
RFQ, I guess it's more of a request for qualifications; right? Because you are looking for
service providers and the services they can provide you and what you need. I don't
think it's prohibited. I mean, again, to be fair to the trust and to make sure we keep
separate as much as you can, we would always probably have to reach out to the legal
counsel for the trust to see if there is any issues from Department of Insurance side or
concerns they would have if we use the city's process and, then, we didn't do it
separately, because D of I is always looking for that somewhat separation that the trust
has some level of independence, even though the city is, obviously, the primary funder
of the program. So, that would probably be one factor we would at least have to
consider. Otherwise, no, I don't think there is a problem, because, otherwise, we would
simply do -- like we have done for other vendors where we have used purchasing for
service vendors, when we used it for, for example, engineering firms where we are
looking for the services they can provide. It's not necessarily just a price. So, generally
the similar idea.
Strader: Thank you. That's helpful. You know, so I think we have -- we have heard a
presentation and clearly there are some switching costs and other concerns, but I think
we have -- we have laid out different directions we could go. What is the feeling from
Council at this point? Are we ready to make a determination about what we want to do
here with a potential guidance on getting a pulse check kind of from market providers
here for our health trust or do we want to gather more information for a couple of weeks
and have Mr. Nary come back?
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Cavener: Council Vice-President Strader?
Strader: Uh-huh.
Cavener: I guess I have maybe one more question that will help me form that.
Strader: Absolutely.
Cavener: So, Bill, in your presentation you talked about kind of the ongoing relationship
that we have with our current provider and some of the benefits that we have received.
As you go out for a pulse check are you able to reinforce that those things are going to
remain important regardless of who our vendor is? I just -- I want to -- I think those
things are really important and those can be captured in an RFP or an RFQ. I guess I'm
not familiar with -- with the pulse check process and so that's probably where some of
my hesitation is coming from on that, because I have not been a part of that. I think
maintaining some of these things that are really important to our employees we would
want to make sure that we are leading with some of that when we are asking for
vendors in the marketplace to be able to meet our needs.
Nary: Council Member Cavener, I don't see that as any problem really and that was
being identified, because what we are going to identify is what matters to us, the city,
the trust, in providing a service to our employees and, you know, we -- we have had --
we have experience with one vendor and what they do, but they still need to articulate
that. I mean no different than a secondary vendor that is interested in this program and
wanting to provide that service to the city, they just need to articulate what does that
look like. We have to be able to -- to identify that clearly in an RFP or a pulse check, so
that they can -- so they can answer to it and, then, we have to have a fair evaluation
system to evaluate it. I don't see that as an impediment.
Cavener: Council Vice-President Strader.
Strader: Uh-huh.
Cavener: I will just share kind of my thoughts is we rely on our staff to help us guide
with things that we are not subject matter experts on and Keith Watts is a subject matter
expert subject matter expert. So, I guess my request might be is to ask Mr. Watts to
watch today's presentation and bring a recommendation back to us about the -- what
the best course forward is, whether that is a informal pulse check, if it is an RFP or an
RFQ process, taking lines -- yeah, this is one of the largest competitive expenses
outside of a capital purchase the city will make, I want to make sure that we are being
respectful to the anonymity of the trust, while also making sure that we are doing at
least what I think are probably the -- the two biggest priorities. One is making sure that
we are providing a -- a service that meets the needs of our employees. That's number
one with a bullet. And, then, number two is that we are continuing to be good fiscal
stewards of the taxpayers' dollars and I think Mr. Watts can help us guide what the best
course of action is for this. So, that would be my recommendation.
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Strader: Okay. Is there any discussion or feedback?
Little Roberts: Madam Vice-President?
Strader: Absolutely, Council Woman Little Roberts. Go ahead.
Little Roberts: My comment would be that we need to check legally to make sure that
that doesn't mesh the city and the trust too much before we have Mr. Watts go to any
work.
Nary: Well, if Council is okay with it, Council Member Cavener, is we have our trust
meeting tomorrow. We can certainly bring that to the trust tomorrow, so that we can
reach out to our counsel and at least get some indication from -- from Mr. West if any
concerns he has from the legal side and, then, simultaneously we can, then, reach out
to Mr. Watts and, then, hopefully maybe in our next -- we are not meeting next week, but
two weeks from now we can have an answer for you.
Strader: Okay. Thank you very much. I think that -- that feels like -- I'm seeing a lot of
head nods. That feels like good direction that we should go in and I think hopefully that
provides you some good direction. So, I have the action items listed as following up
with legal concerns, following up with procurement and, then, coming back in two weeks
with an update on kind of your recommendation from the health trust more specifically
on whether a pulse check or other approach is recommended.
Nary: Absolutely.
12. Discussion of Proposed Unified Development Code (UDC)
Amendments
Strader: Excellent. Thank you so much. Okay. With that we will move on to Item No.
12, the discussion of the proposed UDC amendments and we will recognize Mr. Hood
and Mr. Parsons. Go ahead.
Hood: Thank you, Vice-President Strader, Members of Council. First I want to call to
your attention the memo that is in today's packet. There is a lot of information and a
limited amount of time, so go ahead and pull the hook when -- when the time is
appropriate. I -- we will use as much as you are willing to give us here this afternoon,
but we aren't going to be able to get through everything and we don't even have
everything in this memo, but we did highlight those things we have been working on
since the last time we were before you to talk about these topics in general, which was
September. So, some of what we are going to do today -- and maybe I will just pause
there real quick. I do believe Emily Kane is online. She's been part of the team, so any
questions that maybe are for legal Emily's been right there. Bill Parsons is actually the
lead on this one. I drew the short straw, I'm going to kind of facilitate the discussion.
MC. And, then, we have Lacy from code enforcement as well, who has been very
critical in bringing that side -- that component of a lot of the change you will hear about.
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Not all of them, but a lot of them do have that code enforcement perspective that's very
important here. So, just quickly the background process just mentioned -- the bare
bones of our staff team, but we have, you know, members from fire -- fire marshal has
been -- been part of these discussions, too, as well as other city staff. The UDC focus
group is still in conversations about this. But some of the feedback we got last time we
talked to Council was you wanted to get more of a heads up and understand kind of the
scope of some of the changes before the public hearing. So, that's why we are here is
to give you that heads up that there are some potential changes. We also -- there are a
couple of these, though, that we do need some feedback and direction on as well. So,
trying to get through those at least today, those ones where to us it's still a question
mark. So, again, I kind of mentioned it in my first opening remarks, but we are going to
highlight some of those things. We aren't going to go through the changes line by line.
What I will say is if we get a general green light from you today we are -- again, we are
meeting with UDC focus group on Thursday again and we are going to take some of the
feedback we get today, tweak as necessary, but we are looking to submit an application
to go through the public hearing process here within the next couple of weeks with a
hearing likely end of next month is what we are targeting right now on our calendar at
P&Z, so that puts it on your docket probably in August -- sometime early August,
something like that, so -- but, again, we are here to -- yeah. Go ahead.
Strader: Yeah. Just for a second. So, just in terms of process I think in this evening,
just kind of looking around the room, I feel like tonight, just based on the agenda, we
could go close to 6:00 o'clock on this item if people are comfortable, unless there is a
constraint -- or an issue that anyone has, in which case let me know, please. But feel --
feels like that's what we could do. So, I would say, Caleb, we will plan to go until 5:55
and, then, that would give people time for a bio break or a phone call. All right. Please
proceed.
Hood: Thank you. So, again, a little bit of --
Little Roberts: Sorry. Real quick. Is there any chance -- I can't get to my e-mail for
some reason -- if we could get the memo you sent us up, so that we can see it as well.
Hood: I will ask Bill or Chris, please, to go ahead and pull --
Little Roberts: Thank you.
Hood: -- pull that up if we can. I'm going to go ahead and start and, then, hopefully,
they can catch up with that. It looks like Mr. Parsons is on it. So, again, just maybe a
little bit of process background. We work with that UDC focus group -- and I will just say
I think those meetings have been very well attended. Our attendance has fluctuated
kind of historically the last several meetings and for this round we have had, again,
probably historic highs as far as participation from a wide, you know, range of cast of
characters from professionals to lay persons to -- Mr. Overton actually -- Councilman
Overton serves and has been at most of those meetings as well. So, it's been great to
have those conversations with -- again, a lot of stakeholders in our community that bring
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different perspectives. We don't always agree on everything, but we try to get to a
consensus and, you know, staff's guiding principle is what we believe are -- is in the
best interest of the community overall and that's generally what we are going to propose
to you today with some of those questions; right? We need your help in defining what
that means a little bit today. So, I think I'm going to jump into the first topic that's on the
agenda and this is secondary -- right now they are called secondary dwelling units.
More -- part of the proposal is to change the terminology to accessory dwelling units or
ADUs. That's more common terminology that most people understand. This won't
solve our housing attainability issue, but it is a tool that isn't used maybe as frequently
as it could be in our community. So, that's sort of the -- the idea with this is what -- what
are we with our standards in city code going to be in the way of allowing more of these?
And, again, I have got some of this feedback before, some of you, Council, are newer
and have not been part of those past conversation and direction given to staff. So, this
may be one that you hear in another 18 months or two years and we -- you know, hey,
our society is shifting. Are we still wanting to go this way? But we have some draft
changes to that -- to our ADUs and some of them, quite frankly, the standards are
misused and misunderstood and that's what we are trying to do is basically have our --
all of the various codes -- so, International Residential Code, UDC, addressing, all come
together so it's clear what an ADU is, how you get one, what comes along with that?
You get an address. You get services. You get a driveway. You get -- you know, and
what is an -- just an addition to an existing home and you can't just throw a house
number on that and say, well, this is my ADU. No, it comes with some certain conditions
to qualify you, then, as an ADU. You can do both, but to qualify as an ADU you have to
meet these criteria and if you are going to be an addition that's a separate thing. So,
again, trying to marry those codes together the best we can and clarify the processes
and, again, situations that need to be present to qualify as an accessory dwelling unit.
There are a couple of things I want to call to your attention. So, again, not going to read
to you the changes, but there are a couple of things even within the memo that I want to
clarify. Excuse me. We are going to require them to hook up to sewer, water electricity
and have garbage service. Kind of some of the mixed signals we have got. And, again,
this is that threshold to qualify. It is a lower bar to allow the accessory dwelling unit to
just use the primary dwelling unit's services. So, basically, have a Y off of those
services to also serve that. Some communities do require a separate meter, separate
hookups, but that makes your costs go up and the feasibility of getting these more, so I
think in a perfect world, putting my Public Works hat on and MUBS even, you do have
those separate connections for each one, independent connections. We are not
proposing that. We don't think that that adds a lot of value to that process and, again,
lowers the bar. We are not lowering the bar on -- you know, no one can really see that,
but to share a -- you know, a sewer hookup where the city isn't being shortchanged
either, they are still paying for the usage of the water that you use there and whatnot.
But that is a -- something that I will pause and if -- if there is other thoughts on that we
could potentially require the separate, stand-alone services. You have to have the
service if it needs to be independent or not I guess is my first pause.
Strader: Okay. I think it's a good time for us to take a beat and get some feedback and
questions. Councilman Taylor.
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Taylor: Yeah. Caleb, thank you. I think just a general sentiment from my perspective. I
think ADUs are obviously growing in interest and demand. I think as part of our solving
a little bit of the housing challenges that we have. My inclination would be that we make
it easier, not more cumbersome, less red tape in the way of getting there. I mean
whatever we can do to streamline, simplify, make it more -- make it quicker for us to get
to bringing these types of housing units online I think is better, but striking the right
balance of, you know, preserving the integrity of our -- of our water system, things like
that, but I think being overly cumbersome or having overly -- too many requirements is
something I would like to see us kind of shy away from, but I understand there is a
balance. So, I think that's kind of my sentiment is I would like to see us move towards
making this as simple and easy as possible, while maintaining the appropriate balance
of integrity there.
Cavener: Madam Vice-President?
Strader: Council President Cavener.
Cavener: Caleb, I tend to agree with -- with Council Member Taylor and maybe this is
good follow up for us at a later point in time, which is difference between an addition
versus an ADU. My perspective is is that most people that would be coming in for an
ADU, right, that's on something that's already been constructed, so, it's -- it's a -- it's a
homeowner, you know, that's going through this process, as opposed to somebody who
is very sophisticated in the development community. So, I do think a very neighborly
approach that makes this easier, not more challenging. Also balancing the public safety
need is kind of the direction that I would want to go. I would want to understand why we
would need them to have their own trash hook up and those things. Like what are the --
what are the gains from -- from requiring that. I think that this needs to be a low barrier
entry for our residents to be able to take advantage.
Strader: Okay. Maybe just some feedback from me as well, unless there are other
questions really quick. Yeah, I read the memo and I thought you are on the right track.
I guess the only thing I wanted to make sure was that if we are not requiring separate
utilities that we are somewhere -- and it doesn't have to be here, but that we somewhere
are at least making sure there is a minimum standard being met in terms of just public
health and safety with -- I have a just general view that all individuals with, you know,
this type of housing should at a minimum have like electricity and water and -- and, you
know, wastewater services. So, whether they are relying on, you know, piggybacking
off of somebody else's hookup I think is -- I'm very flexible on that, but I just want to
make sure that we are kind of keeping standards where they should be.
Hood: That's a good comment and we will -- we will definitely verify that, that there is
capacity in that service and that it's up to standard.
Strader: Right.
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Hood: I want to -- as we transition to the second part of this and, then, on to the next
topic, Councilman Cavener mentioned home ownership. That is one of the current
standards we are proposing to maintain is that the property owner actually has to live in
one of the -- one or the other of the dwelling units on site. So, this cannot be a solely
rental -- that is one of the levers we have that -- barrier to entry. So, some of the
comments -- in other communities they do not require that, but we didn't feel that's
appropriate at the staff level or the UDC focus group, although there was some variation
in that. Hey, if you really want more of these don't require someone -- don't require the
property owner to live on site. You will likely get more, because I can double my income
essentially -- maybe not double, but I can add more income to my rental property if I can
have a second rental on it. Right now we say the property owner has to live in one or
the other of the dwelling units. So, just a point of -- again, something -- if we really
wanted to see more we could say they can both be rentals, but that's not where we are
at today. And, again, I don't want to spend too much time on this, but we are --
neighborhood integrity is something that we are trying to protect here. That's some of
the past direction we have gotten from Council, so we still are requiring parking for that
unit, so -- again you could say, well, park on street. That's not where we are at. We are
going to still have a parking requirement for the ADU. You could vary in setbacks and
location. So, in past discussions some of Council has said, hey, you know, if you got
something from your adjacent property owner and they approve a -- you know,
encroachment into your rear side or setback, maybe that's something we can consider
that isn't a standard setback. We aren't going there. And, then, you could -- right now
we have maximum size of 900 square feet and a minimum size in the building code -- if
I didn't write that down. It's at least a few hundred feet. Council Woman Strader, I know
you -- Vice-President Strader, excuse me, you have mentioned that before, you know,
some concern about these ultra-small micro units. There is a minimum to qualify, but
the maximum is 900 square feet. Again, we could play with that. If you really wanted to
see more we could just say as long as you have sleeping, eating and living quarters.
But we do have those standards. So, that's why it's couched in the memo -- thank you
for pulling that up, Bill -- is other things we could -- we could play with, but we are not
currently proposing that, so just wanted to call those to your attention.
Strader: Okay.
Hood: And, then, this is a little bit of a tag team event, if there is anything else on that.
Strader: Excuse me, Caleb.
Overton: Council Vice-President?
Strader: Uh-huh.
Overton: Just a last comment on ADUs before we move on. My hat's off to staff sitting
through all these meetings and the focus group bringing all those people to the table
over the conversation, because this is a very -- can be a very contentious issue. We
want to try to allow that more affordable housing in those places where it's applicable.
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But at the same time we need to find that balance in the community and really need to
make sure that what we are doing and the intent of what we are doing makes the city
better. We don't want to be doing something that starts to tear apart some of our
neighborhoods in the city to make this happen and that was the balance that was trying
to be struck as we were going through this and I thought they did a very good job as
they laid this out on trying to find that balance, keeping some of those regulations.
There are cities that don't have all those regulations and I appreciate the fact that we
are keeping those the way they are right now as we move forward.
Strader: Okay. Thank you. All right. Please proceed.
Parsons: Thank you, Madam Vice-President, Members of the Council. Happy to be
here and thank you, Council -- Councilman Cavener, for at least suggesting that last
year, come back, bring these in front of you so you guys can understand what we are
trying to do this upcoming year here. So, private streets is one that came on our radar
pretty quickly. UDC focus group, what we are seeing -- I think Council is probably
seeing this more and more -- is, as you know, we continue to grow and land is
becoming more and more scarce, so we -- we will tend to see more and more in-fill
going forward and we had some developers come forward and say, hey, your private --
we have always had private streets in our -- in our UDC. We have those currently. But
they are used in a limited fashion and that's for a reason. We don't -- you know, we
have ACHD. Most of the times the concerns that we hear about private streets is
maintenance or access for other -- for pedestrians and for bicyclists and we do address
that in the UDC. But this next round of code changes we are trying to broaden the
scope of when a private street may be appropriate. I can also share with you that I
have been in many meetings the last couple of years where ACHD has also encouraged
developers to go the private street route, because they could not see a public benefit
because of the scope of their project and how small it was and you -- you have heard
some of the challenges we have been having with addressing recently and so we are
trying to bridge all of those topics together and make it universal and unified in one
document in the UDC. I know Brian McClure in long range is also going to be coming
forward and talking to you about some changes to Title 8, which coincide with some of
the private street changes that we are trying to -- to marry up -- or talk today. I don't -- I
don't have all of the requirements memorized, but we are trying to make it clear that in a
residential setting you do X, Y and Z, meaning maybe sidewalks on both sides of the
street, maybe a wider street, maybe have designated parking where you don't have a
wider street, because we know people that live on private streets have events, have
family events, have get togethers. We want to make sure fire department has adequate
access to get into those types of facilities. But people can also park and be safe and
enjoy their community. The other piece of it is addressing where someone may go into
a commercial development and want to do a residential project. I think there was one, if
you guys recall, south Meridian off of Lake Hazel where they had some residential units
right up to a commercial in a mixed use designation and we were talking with you about
addressing those units, because they did not front -- some of them did not front on a
public street. So, what is the appropriate mechanism? We -- we shared with you that
the fire code addresses that, but we also want to make sure that whatever we do
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marries up with other code sections that we -- we enforce on a daily basis and, then, the
third part of it is Ada county on occasion has required commercial developers to name
their commercial drive aisles through their -- their parking lots and we have gotten
notification, we are like, wait, what happened, why do you have a named street on --
through your parking lot? And we realized the county has required that and so that's the
other piece of it. So, it's really a three pronged approach. It's -- when is it appropriate
for residential? How do we address it when we have multi -- large multi-family projects
that don't need public street frontage, in-fill, and, then, also addressing as an ongoing
process. But I think all in all we made some good progress. I'm not going to sit up here
today and say that it's fully baked. We are -- Caleb has quite a few comments. I know
long range team has quite a few comments and so does the UDC focus group. So, I'm
still trying to wrap my head around that and get some of those nuances worked out. But
there are quite a few --
Strader: Maybe I could interject. I guess what I'm hearing is this is -- and I think
reading the memo this is kind of a pulse check, if you will, on where you all are at with
your process and we don't really have a final form yet of recommendations. This is kind
of a status report is what I'm seeing nods. So, that's what -- I think what we are hearing
and, you know, I think on any of these items I think maybe just a take away also for the
Council would be just if you disagree with the direction that any of these items seem to
be going is we can also provide follow up directly to Bill. You know, I think -- like just as
an example, I just philosophically -- I would like to see a minimization of the amount of
private streets in the city, because I am not convinced that the entities that are building
the private streets will be able to pay to maintain them in the future. So, that I have a
little bit more of a just philosophical issue on that. I'm not saying it's never appropriate,
but I think there needs to be a lot of thought around doing that on a widespread basis.
That is the only item I was deeply kind of -- had a deep feeling about, but just looking
around private streets I think there may be others that have similar thoughts, so I guess
I would encourage everybody to reach out to Bill on that -- on that one specifically.
Hood: Madam Vice-President?
Strader: Uh-huh. Yes.
Hood: If I can just another just -- as we went into this as staff and, then, through the
focus group, too, I think one of the key philosophical things with private streets is we are
opening the door a little bit wider to them, but we are not -- you know, we are not
slamming it wide open, so that everything and everywhere can be a private street. But
it was pretty narrowly focused, so we are looking at maybe broadening that a little bit
more. I will say one of the key takeaways -- we are playing with that language still -- for
in-fill -- I want to highlight that, because I will use a specific example that has been
problematic to us at Eagle and Ustick where private streets were the first streets to go in
and, then, you get people that are trying to connect through private streets. So, we
really are trying to limit them in those settings to where, okay, the rest of the network is
generally figured out and you are a piece here that doesn't negatively affect connectivity
of the greater good. So, that's where, again, we want to be clear that if you are
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greenfield development and the first to go into a section and it's not figured out, we are
going to have a higher bar to clear to prove to us that private streets are appropriate.
Strader: That's funny, because that exact example was the reason I would not like any
private streets in the city, so that's funny you mentioned it. Maybe we -- I think maybe
what we are going to do is we have about seven minutes before we are going to break.
Let's go ahead and try to touch on the drive-throughs if that's okay, because I feel like
that is a bigger kind of newer item.
Parsons: Yes. I appreciate that, Vice-President Strader.
Strader: Yeah.
Parsons: Because that is one that I feel pretty confident on where we are headed.
Definitely I -- I appreciate the pause on it from last year and said, staff, go look at this
and come back with something better. So, I think Caleb laid it well -- laid it out well in
the memo. We are taking a tiered approach and looking at these from a different impact
on the community going back to that word, because that's what it really is and as we all
know not all drive-throughs function equally, but they are defined equally in our code
and so, again, got a lot of feedback on this. We did look at nationwide standards. We
looked at local standards. And I think what I have drawn up here is probably something
I haven't seen. It's that tiered approach. And I did work with one of the industry experts
that does this throughout the nation and he really liked the suggestions and where we
were headed with it as well. So, again, the goal was to limit the public hearing process.
So, I guess my request from Council -- or some feedback from you tonight is do you like
the approach with limiting -- again, the way the ordinance is written currently if it's not
within 300 feet of a residential use -- a residence or a district, it's going to be staff level
regardless of the tier and I know sometimes the Council -- you were here, you have
heard Raising Cane's, you have heard other, you have an application before you this
evening to talk about drive-throughs and these are those high -- those tier three drive-
throughs is how I have couched them in the code. But they do have the most impact.
But, again, if they meet the standards I think what we have drawn up here will -- won't
solve all the issues, but at least it broadens it a little bit more, so we can take a look at
that and make sure that we have appropriate standards.
Strader: Okay. Maybe we take a pause there. Tier one. Tier two. Tier three.
Councilman Taylor.
Taylor: Bill, you have done a lot of work on this. I really appreciate it. I had no idea I
would be dealing with so much with drive-throughs when I was thinking I would be on
City Council, nor did I appreciate the amount of impact it has on -- on it. I really like this
approach. I like the thinking of how can we keep it in your hands as much as where it
makes some sense, but one thing I have also learned is not all -- drive-throughs are not
all the same. They are very different depending on where they are located and -- and
just sort of the structure around it. So, when I was reading this I'm like, oh, that -- I
really think that's creative. I like where you are going with that. So, I look forward to
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kind of seeing how you kind of -- kind of slot all that in there. But I really like the
direction on this.
Cavener: Council Vice-President Strader?
Strader: Yep. Council President Cavener.
Cavener: Yeah. Bill, kudos. This is I think really great work. Of all the stuff there is
some pieces that are interesting, but I'm really excited for us to kind of weigh in on this.
A couple just quick questions. Recognize we will have a larger conversation later. I'm
thinking of we had a bank -- so, if let's say that bank was built today would be a tier one.
That, then, converted into being a restaurant, which, then, I would think be a tier two.
Does that mean, then, that when a -- a property owner or a business owner would come
in and, essentially, apply for a tier two use and -- will the standards be as such that they
-- the way the building is built they wouldn't be able to achieve that second level tier? I
guess have you -- and I don't need an answer on that necessarily right now, just the first
thing that kind of popped up into my mind and, then, to your question -- I will just kind of
share I think where I'm coming from. I think a tier one for staff makes sense. I think I
could probably get there on a tier two, recognizing that if somebody disagrees with
staff's decision they can appeal it. It's the tier three, because I look at that as a much
higher intense use. I almost think that that one should probably come before us. But
I'm not necessarily opposed to them all being with staff. I just where I think of small use,
bigger use, huge use, those are the ones that really are going to have the largest impact
on our citizens and I would imagine when you are getting to something like that that is a
tier two use, regardless of the decision that staff is going to make, someone's likely
going to ask -- ask us to review that as well and so rather than complicate the process it
may be in everybody's best interest just to have those go before us. So, just my -- my
two cents.
Strader: Okay. All right. It sounds like you have got some good feedback that people
love the tiered approach, but maybe -- maybe following up on -- on some details about
how we go from one tier to another seems important and also the approvals. I think we
want to think that through. Okay.
Parsons: Got you. And that is addressed in -- in the current changes, too. The tiered
one to a tier two, so --
Strader: Okay.
Parsons: More to come. Thank you for the feedback.
Strader: Okay. A couple minutes here.
Parsons: Yeah. I won't spend a lot of time on flex space --
Strader: Okay.
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Parsons: -- but, again, it's just basically another tiered approach based on zoning. So,
unless -- so, again, if you are in a lesser commercial zone, you provide more office and
less warehouse and as you transition to a higher commercial zone or an industrial zone,
you can lessen the amount of office and add more warehousing or industrial space
storage.
Hood: If I can just put a finer point on that real quick. Flex space is a use. You also
have industrial uses, light industrial uses, warehousing as principally permitted that don't
require any office or commercial uses. So, in your industrial zones you can be a
hundred percent warehouse or a hundred percent of these industries -- we are really
talking about if you want to be a flex building in a commercial zone you need to have
some commercial aspect to that. So, that's really the intent here is -- again, we are not
saying all industrial buildings need to have a retail component or a showroom or office
space even, it's when you want to classify yourself as flex and based on zoning this is --
those are the proportionate shares. So, I just want to -- that to be clear. This is one
where we aren't at consensus with the UDC focus group, so I will just call that out. I
have gotten some comments from some of our larger -- the largest industrial developer
that we have in the community and they want more and I see their point on a lot of this,
but that's -- that's kind of the counterbalance to that is, okay, well you are in a
commercial zone and we aren't necessarily looking for large warehousing. This is small
scale. It's in the definition. Warehousing with ancillary, you know, nonindustrial type of
user. So, again, putting that in the context of what's on the ground and the location you
are at, but I think this is a -- and I will just -- someone's comments. We are on the right
direction is some of the feedback, but it's still too strict to use some of their words --
some of the feedback we have received as staff, so --
Strader: Okay.
Parsons: I think the other important component is we are -- because of Caleb
mentioning that the commercial component of this use that we are applying the
commercial parking standards to it, because in an industrial zone you have to -- you
only -- it's -- what is it, 75 percent less parking --
Hood: Yeah.
Parsons: -- industrial district than a commercial district, so --
Strader: Uh-huh.
Parsons: -- and we know -- we have seen an uptick in commercial where we have
commercial users going in industrial space through that conditional use process. So,
we want to be mindful that we are not giving up so much industrial to other commercial
users. So, staff really feels like that is one of the most important components as well is
making sure we get the right parking balance for these types of businesses and uses.
Strader: Okay.
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Parsons: And, then, any feedback on that before we quickly get to fencing?
Strader: Let's check -- let's just check in if anyone -- does anyone have any feedback or
just a strong reaction one way or another to that one? I think this is one of those -- you
are just going to keep churning through it and I think especially talking with your industry
experts at the same time to get their feedback to try to meet the right compromise that's
still workable; right? We don't want to be too prescriptive and -- but at the same time I
get exactly what you are saying about parking and some of these other aspects, so --
okay. And we have a couple of -- it looked like clean-up items, things we have talked
about before. Fencing. Shall we touch on fencing?
Parsons: One thing about fencing, it will be a repeal and replace.
Strader: Okay.
Parsons: So, you probably have never seen that, but there is so many changes to it
that it's just easier to repeal the old and come in with a brand new one. A lot of it reuses
the existing code, but just clarifies when you have a grade change, when you have
decorative trellises in your -- in your backyard, it allows -- I think it's going to allow the
community a little flexibility to do more in their backyard and add some of those
decorative elements, but at the same time hopefully help code enforcement enforce the
code a little bit easier, rather -- and at least make it more enforceable for them and so I
am really happy that we are working with legal and code on this, because they are the
ones that are out there trying to find a definition of a fence and a tarp -- a blue tarp on a
20 foot pole is not a fence. But they have seen those things. So, we were, again, back
in front of you in September. We shared with you -- shared with you some of those
photos and some of the interpretations they have to make in the field and I believe this
is one of those ways where we can enhance that, modernize the code and, hopefully,
get somewhere where everyone is happy with it.
Strader: Okay. Great. Well, I think with that, you know, we will -- you are planning to
come back to us in August. When would you like to hear from the Council Members? If
people have feedback I would recommend giving people a minimum of two weeks. But
when would you like to hear from Council Members if they have additional comments or
concerns?
Hood: Vice-President Strader, good question. And just to clarify. So, in August we plan
on that being the public hearing. So, it will be vetted through the Planning and Zoning
Commission. So, we have -- I would like to meet with our UDC focus group on
Thursday. Bill's -- give him a couple of days to make those tweaks and we can get
something back out first part of -- Monday's a holiday. First to middle part of next week
and, then, within the two weeks, then, please, provide us any -- any feedback
comments. But you ultimately have -- this is more for you to start thinking about and
chewing on, even if we propose something that's not ideal, but earlier the better, but you
will have another -- another bite certainly later. So, middle of next month.
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Strader: Fantastic. I think we have a solid plan and with that we are at the end of our
meeting.
Cavener: Madam Vice-President, move we adjourn the work session.
Strader: Okay. Do I have a second?
Little Roberts: Second.
Strader: All right. Fantastic. All in favor say aye. And we are adjourned.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 5.53 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
6 / 3 2025
MAYOR ROBERT E. SIMISON DATE APPROVED
ATTEST:
CHRIS JOHNSON - CITY CLERK