HomeMy WebLinkAbout2006 12-12 Pre
Meridian City Pre-Council Meetina
December 12. 2006
The Meridian City Pre-Council meeting was called to order at 5:00 P.M. on
Tuesday, December 12, 2006 by President Councilman Shaun Wardle.
Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, Keith Bird, Shaun Wardle, Charlie
Rountree and Joe Borton.
Staff Present: Bill Nary, Anna Canning, Pete Friedman, Reta Cunningham,
Stacy Kilchenmann, Brad Watson and Will Berg.
Item 1.
Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X Shaun Wardle
X Charlie Rountree
X
X Joe Borton
X Keith Bird
Mayor Tammy de Weerd
Item 2.
Adoption of the Agenda:
Bird: Mr. President.
Wardle: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we adopt the agenda as published.
Borton: Second.
Wardle: It's been moved and seconded to adopt the agenda. All in favor.
ALL AYES. MOTION CARRIED.
Item 3.
Discussion of Alcohol Ordinance:
Nary: Thank you Mr. President, Madame Mayor and Members of the Council.
There are two ordinances in your packet in regards to the alcohol change. You
may have seen some of the local news coverage as some cities in Idaho
because the New Year's Eve is on a Sunday this year, they recognize that their
ordinances were inconsistent with State law. State law was changed back in the
early 90's and in Ada County what had happened at that time was that the
County Commissioners held a large public meeting and had a number of alcohol
licensees as well as patrons, different cities participated in this hearing and made
a decision to allow in Ada County the Ada County ordinance to be amended to
allow for Sunday liquor sales and 2:00 a.m. serving time. That doesn't affect
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December 12, 2006
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cities because the State law specifically say cities have to pass their own
ordinances. Alcohol Beverages and Control for whatever reason made a
decision that once the county did that, they considered that to be a blanket
approval in Ada County for 2:00 sales and Sunday sales and holiday sales, but
technically under the State law the cities are required to pass their own
ordinance. There are two different ordinances in your packet for your
consideration. One allows Sundays and 2:00 a.m. serving and the other allows
for Sunday, 2:00 a.m., Memorial Day and Thanksgiving Day. The State law
prohibits sales on those two holidays as well as Christmas and cities can only opt
to allow sales on Memorial Day or Thanksgiving Day. So, no one can opt for
Christmas Day, but the other two days are allowed. So, both of those ordinances
are in front of you for consideration and somehow - I am assuming the Sunday,
New Year's Eve came up about six or seven years ago and nobody noticed that
it was out of whack. But, we did and a number of other cities did, so that is why
that is in front of you. It is on your agenda tonight, if you want to select the
ordinance that you want and approve it tonight, you can. If you want to select the
ordinance that you want, consider it a first reading and accelerate the readings -
next week you can do that since that is your last meeting of the year or whatever
your preference is. That is the basic as to how we got here and what those
ordinances are.
Bird: Mr. President.
Wardle: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Bill, Memorial and Thanksgiving Day - you still sell beer and wine can't
you?
Nary: Yes.
Bird: (Inaudible).
Nary: Again, I couldn't tell you, I didn't do any research historically as to why
they chose Memorial Day or Thanksgiving Day. I would imagine in many of our
restaurants that serve on Thanksgiving Day they may be serving hard alcohol or
cocktails and that kind of thing. I don't know.
Borton: Bill is this ten o'clock in the morning?
Nary: The following day. So, that would mean the 26th.
Borton: Ten a.m.?
Nary: Yes, 10:00 a.m. That is what the statute says (inaudible).
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
December 12, 2006
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Wardle: Council I would tend to agree with Mr. Bird that - especially for
purposes of creating a comprehensive ordinance that matches up with the county
and not having to have specific enforcement and different policies at different
restaurants or different days of the year. I would presume that we would bring
forth the ordinance that would match up with the county.
Bird: I would like to adopt it this meeting.
Nary: It is noticed up on the agenda, so if that is the one you want, we can
certainly do that.
Wardle: That would be my intent.
Rountree: I am not sure I understand the (inaudible--). I guess it probably really
doesn't matter. For some reason State Code identified three holidays and
specified that they can serve liquor, but not on one of them - isn't there
something in the State statute that talks about the other 12 days of Christmas
and the other nine or ten or eleven state and federally recognized holidays?
(Inaudible-- ).
Nary: Mr. President, Madame Mayor, Councilman Rountree that is what is in the
statute that is the most comprehensive that covers two o'clock, Sundays,
Memorial Day and Thanksgiving. Those are by State statute the broadest
allowance a city can have to allow liquor sales. We could be more restrictive.
For example, recently the City of Twin Falls expanded their sales to Sundays and
2:00 a.m., but not for those two holidays. The City of Rexburg expanded to 1 :00
a.m. from 9:00 p.m. So, you can be more restrictive, but for whatever reason for
- again, I didn't look in the legislative history - Christmas Day was decided by
the State, but no city could allow sale on Christmas Day and is very specific that
they meant Christmas Day went all the way until 10:00 the day after Christmas -
10:00 a.m. So, they were very specific. Why they picked Thanksgiving Day and
Memorial Day, I don't know. They have no objection to allowing cities to alter
that - I don't know.
Rountree: (Inaudible--).
Nary: No because it is not allowed by State statute. All that is allowed is the city
has the option to opt. So, technically unless you opt -
Rountree: (Inaudible--).
Nary: Correct. When I was in college the City of Nampa didn't allow sales - so
there has been -
Bird: (Inaudible--).
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December 12, 2006
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Nary: There are and again, when the issue first came up when I asked -
obviously the Police Chief and I don't go to a lot of bars because I asked him
what was the practice? And he said well I think it is one o'clock. He had no idea
either.
Rountree: (Inaudible--).
Nary: Exactly, yes. The Police Chief has reviewed it, the (inaudible)
comprehensive ordinance - currently the practice has been to 2:00 a.m. and on
Sundays, Memorial Day and Thanksgiving Day. That is what people have been
doing with Alcohol Beverage & Control's approval. They believe that it covered -
been covered by the county.
Wardle: We will have that for discussion at our 7:00 meeting tonight.
Nary: Thank you.
De Weerd: Mr. Chair.
Wardle: Just an FYI, I don't know if you guys new this, but ABC has traditionally
over the last number of years only had one (inaudible--) and Governor Risch has
increased that number at least until the end of June to sit. So, we do have an
opportunity during the next six months if we need to have that collaboration to
work with us and defining roles and how we can be more active participants in
enforcement and some of the related issues and now is the time to do that when
they have these kinds of (inaudible).
Item 4.
Discussion of Audit Presentation Date Change Ordinance:
Nary: Thank you Mr. President, Madame Mayor and Members of the Council.
This is one that has come up annually and you asked last year to get this
changed and Ms. Kilchenmann is here from the Finance Department. Our
current cit~ ordinance says that the audit report will be presented to you by
January 5t of each year. It is never completed by January 5th and there are a lot
of reasons that it is not, all of them basically due to the type of audit and
(inaudible--). You have in front of you two different options. One of them goes to
the end of the month of January and the other one goes to the end of the second
quarter, which is the end of March and I will let Ms. Kilchenmann explain what
would make most sense with Finance.
Kilchenmann: Okay, I just - we have been bargaining about this for a (inaudible)
- negotiating. Without going into excruciating detail, I just wanted to explain a
little bit about what is going on in the world of accounting. Just for some
background on our close process - our year ends on September 30th. We don't
start closing on October 1 st. We probably start closing towards the end of
October so that is when our close really starts. That is when we get all of the
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
December 12, 2006
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payables in; we do the last payroll; we get our revenue from the State Revenue
Sharing's and so forth. So, that is when it just starts. The close probably takes
eight weeks for us to go through all of the process of closing everything. So,
traditionally, we have done the close - the auditors are there now. They come in
December. They spend a month doing field work. They spend a month maybe
compiling reports, so it is like the end of January. Well, since the changes that -
we call them SAS, which means Statement Accounting Standards - since the
changes that came back with (inaudible), that whole process has changed
dramatically. One of the things that have changed that we have talked about a
lot is doing the management disclosure and analysis that is our responsibility that
adds some time. Another thing is the requirement that the audit have a two
partner review, so that is lengthening the time that auditors have the report and
now the worst. worst change of all is that starting with our next fiscal year, we
have to - we do the financial statements. We will prepare the reports that you
see here that are in their template. We will do all these footnotes. We will make
all of the adjusted entries and all of the re-c1ass entries. So essentially we will do
the audit. We have to go back and review our work. So, like Ada County has
asked for an extra month to do that process. The theory being that the auditors if
they catch something like in our audit last year they caught a revenue number
that wasn't reported right. So, the theory is if the auditors catch that and tell us
then they are in turn auditing their own work. So, what they will do is if they catch
something like that they can make a choice is it a material weakness, in other
words they report it or is it a control weakness? In other words, we just made an
error. If we don't do all of this work ourselves, it automatically becomes a
material weakness. They said about 95 percent of their clients, they do the
reporting. They say we are one of the ones who do the most of the bulk of this
work, in other words we do a lot of it and they download into their template. Ada
County does their own. They have a person and that is all she does. That is all
she does all year long is work on doing these statements. So, it is going to make
a big difference. Essentially, I had Bobby who is our audit manager kind of
summed it up he said the client closes the books, prepares the financial and
performs the review. So, it has just added this huge bulk of work for us. That is
where and why I am asking - one we just needed the extra time. I mean, I don't
know if we ever got it done by January 5th.
Cunningham: More like January 20th.
Kilchenmann: I think we could do it if we didn't have to do this extra work. I am
not an auditor, so I am not an expert on the statement (inaudible) standards and
that is kind of why you hired auditors because they were experts. But, now we
are going to have to do it or we are going to get a material -
Bird: (Inaudible--).
Kilchenmann: It is like we have to hire an internal auditor to audit the accounts
and then an external that audit the internal auditors who audit - I mean it is just -
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December 12, 2006
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SO a typical time period like for a (inaudible) or so forth is six months. So, I just
wanted to make the time period to be six months from the year end and
Councilman Bird had good points that we really need to see the numbers before
then. We do and you need to see the financial statements or financial numbers
as close to possible as the time it actually happened. So, what this would be
would just be for this. To have this audit (inaudible) presented to you and our
goal would be, of course, to get the statements to you a lot faster and I think a lot
of what of you are looking for this is useful, but you are also looking at the
budgetary statements, which we can do fast if we are not doing all (inaudible)
and so forth that is involved in doing this report. I am really - I don't think that I
can do this for us and for MDC too. (Inaudible--). We are hiring and in fact we
are interviewing tomorrow for another accountant, which will help a lot to speed
things up. But, that is the background.
Bird: You said that Ada County needed an extra month? (Inaudible--)?
Kilchenmann: Well, they are just in their audit report stage right now.
Bird: What do you need the 31st of March?
Kilchenmann: Another thing that he added is that he said every year he says
now GASBY (inaudible--) and he said if we don't provide the correct disclosure
which they can't tell us then this will be a finding. So, I think we could and I do
want to rewrite that whole ordinance. A lot of it is old of the budget parts.
Bird: I was going to say there is a bunch of stuff in there that is so outdated
(inaudible-- ).
Nary: The reason it (inaudible--) is that at least they are easier targets to look
further out.
Bird: I would like to see a date like March 31st.
Nary: And the only reason I would suggest you consider on a date is it invariably
will happen is the date will be on a Monday and your meeting is Tuesday, which
means it has to be the prior week which mayor may not jive; whereas the end of
the month then at least (inaudible) finance both things can deal with the quarter
for the month.
Kilchenmann: It could be - the way it is worded - it could be the final report is
released is different than the report is actually presented to Council and the
release of the report before that would be (inaudible--) audit, so it wouldn't -
Wardle: Council I think I have heard negotiation to the 31st of March -
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December 12, 2006
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Borton: That is fine by me as long as we are going to continue to get the
information (inaudible--).
Wardle: I think that is part of the policy and procedure part that the Council has
requested of the department heads to see that the Finance Department
continues to provide those on a regular basis. This is as I understand the
ordinance, which we have to follow and a no later than date - certainly the
performance over the past several years has improved and is getting better and I
have been very happy with the statements and the work with the auditors.
Bird: Mr. President I have a statement. (Inaudible--) ordinance. We can just say
this year we will allow this and let's rewrite this and not have to do it two or three
times and just say we will make a motion whether Council denies or is agreeable
with you that we will - this year's audit will be received by the end of the second
quarter. Let's go - I mean this thing has got so many policies in it that - it
worked when Charlie and I needed it and we hadn't had an audit (inaudible).
Kilchenmann: Well, we need to add some things like the audit (inaudible) and we
need to beef it up.
Bird: There are a lot of things and why change the date now and then have to
redo the ordinance completely? Let's just go and excuse the January 5th that is
stated in the ordinance to March 31st or at the end of the second quarter, which
would be March 31st.
Kilchenmann: This year we will before (inaudible--). We don't have to do this.
Bird: I know you will and I know the other years you will too.
De Weerd: What did you two talk about Friday? Wow. Will you give me your
secret?
Bird: I thought man at my age I don't need to get beat up. Is that okay? Bill?
Nary: That would be fine. If you want to acknowledge - in reality, we haven't
kept a January 5th date because it hasn't worked. So, if you want to at least
acknowledge on the record that you recognize that and are going to allow for this
other date to occur and with that also direct that the ordinance be revised and
back to you in a future time, that is fine.
Bird: (Inaudible) with Accounting, yourself and Ted and let's get an ordinance
written that is good for the day and time now because when we wrote this there
was no GASBY 34 or any of that kind of stuff.
(Inaudible discussion)
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December 12, 2006
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Wardle: Thank you Council. I believe I heard a motion from Mr. Bird this
evening extending the audit date to the 31st of March, no later than and direction
for staff to revise the ordinance.
Rountree: I would second that motion.
Wardle: I have got a motion and a second to allow the audit to be presented -
the official audit of the city presented to the Council March 31st the following year
and staff direction to revise the current audit ordinance. All those in favor.
ALL AYES. MOTION CARRIED.
Wardle: Before we move to Item No.5, we are going to take a quick five minute
recess. So, grab something to drink or to eat.
Item 5.
Business District Presentation I Workshop
Wardle: All right thank you Council. I am going to turn this over to Madame
Mayor, who is working diligently to lead our discussion in this important
adventure for the city.
De Weerd: Council in front of you I just handed out an update that I just got from
Aspire On regarding their side of the work on the medical district. So, what I first
wanted to do is talk about the medical district and how it is starting to develop
and as we are moving forward to put a strategic plan together for that. Then I
think what I will do is ask Anna to also talk more in terms of how to give
assurances in this district and other districts we might consider focusing on how
we can handle it from not only the zoning, but quality, design and certain
standards and infrastructure ideas to that. So, I will ask Anna to cover that
aspect when we get to it. First of all, I will give you an update as to what has
been done on the medical district as a whole. We first sat down and looked at
what specifically we wanted to target as far as the type of businesses and
industry for the medical district. I believe we have given you kind of an outline
originally of what that might be. We have looked at medical research
component, manufacturing, certainly looking at clean manufacturing, medical
offices and that is anywhere from your physicians, your dentistry, your eye doctor
- any of the medically related offices - pharmaceutical, hospital services and that
would include the kind of support like Norco would provide - those kinds of
medical supplies and those kinds of things. Certainly along with that would be
conference convention center, retail shopping, restaurants, residential and
hotels. So, when we talked about this with the Planning and Zoning Commission
and we do have one of our Planning and Zoning Commissioners here, we looked
at it in terms that this district would not be exclusive, but what we would be doing
is having a target focus on attracting certain types of businesses in there that
would create a synergy that would allow for greater success in not only the
recruiting efforts, but success of the businesses as well. Planned developments
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
December 12, 2006
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within the medical corridor that our economical development person, Cheryl, has
been working on includes the Meridian Gateway, which is a 20-acre, class "a"
office space. It is not yet filed, but it will be filed very soon. So, I can still just say
the site, right? I don't want to mess anything up. We already have approved
Gramercy, which is a 70-acre, mixed use development with the focus on the
medical related services and a supportive retail and that is over by Mountain
View High School and Pine Bridge which is a 180+ acres mixed use development
with upwards of 4 million square feet and then estimated mixed use housing
components with condominiums, multi-story office, supportive retail, restaurants
with kind of a campus style theme. That is also an application that the city
should be receiving anytime soon. Some of the medical information that has
been gathered and we also started assembling when we contact or we have met
with medical related businesses that are potentials for this corridor - progress,
live presentation and this is all part of their development package. I think you
have received one at one time. Did you not do one of Cheryl's quarterly
reviews? It did show the medical district map. We did an inventory of all of the
current medically related offices and businesses in those areas and developer
quotes, the education programs that are offered in and around the area, airports
- some of the things that have been noted as interest to us. Also we started an
inventory of infrastructure needs that supportive type of businesses would need.
So, we have met with ACHD, Idaho Power on any specifics and power needs.
Certainly we have worked with Planning and Zoning and Public Works and
making sure that our water and sewer capacities exist and in regards to fiber
optic lines - both what is currently available and what are the future plans as well
as how we can coordinate the trenching activities as improvements are done, so
that we can upgrade those kinds of technologies. In front of you is the scope of
work that we entered into with Aspire On as a support to Cheryl's contract as
Economic Developer Coordinator, EDC and so they have provided an update. In
a supportive role Cheryl has still been the lead on this and Cheryl has been
coordinating with Aspire On as well as our Planning Department. At this point I
think it is good to turn this over to Anna unless you have any questions at this
time? Okay, Shaun did you have anything?
Wardle: I guess one of the things that we have discussed - sort of at a higher
level we can discuss after Anna gives us a brief update is the concept of
districting and the concept of - certainly within the city we are part of the free
market system and real estate businesses are going to locate in certain areas,
but how do we make it more attractive for them to cluster, I guess? That is a
question that I have got that we can have sort of after Anna -
Borton: Mr. President.
Wardle: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Tammy is there - when I look at the materials it makes reference to
some of the accomplished things being the branding and marketing message
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December 12, 2006
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awaiting final approval. Is there a marketing message that is a specific brand of
message for this concept?
De Weerd: Well, right now it is the general marketing packet that I think Cheryl
had brought at one point - it got high centered because we were trying to find
pictures of certain quality and we do have kind of a (inaudible) up right now and I
think you all saw a similar one. It is better defined. We have been working on
the text itself and those kinds of things. I can pass this around. So when they
talk about the marketing, this is that first piece of the contract that you entered
into in July with the Resource Center and like I said, it got way laid looking for
quality type of photos and it is back in (inaudible--).
Canning: Thank you President Wardle, Madame Mayor and Members of the
Council. I think that my questions with regard to this medical district have
already been re-supposed perhaps by Mr. Wardle and I am not sure that I have
heard what kind of district you all are thinking about as far as what kind of
regulatory form it takes or not. So, what I would like to do is just go over some
options - kind of a little bit the pros and cons or the differences between what
kinds of districts one might have for the City of Meridian. The zoning ordinance
or the Unified Development Code could have two basic kinds of district. One
would be just a base district. This would be equivalent to our C-G zone or C-C
zone and it just has a purpose statement; it has defined standards and has
allowed uses, whether they'd be considerably permitted conditional or accessory
uses. So, you'd have to have a specifically delineated area and then you would
have uniform regulations governing the use of land, density (inaudible) coverage
central, whatever you want in there for structures. New zoning districts do need
to have a purpose statement that is different from some of the existing purpose
statements. I copied off the purpose statements for our non-residential uses so
you could see some of those. It should have some sort of difference in my mind
otherwise there is not much sense in having a separate district for it. That would
be - you would voluntarily take on that district the way the city currently works.
Upon an annexation and zoning you would ask for that district to apply to you.
So, you would be entering into that voluntarily, so that doesn't address anything
on your neighbor's property and if something the city wants to do is to make sure
that the use is adjoining the medical district via a certain standard then a base
district won't work for that unless you go on rezone properties.
De Weerd: I guess when we started really looking at this and maybe the first
idea of an overlay or protection zone that came up was when we were trying to
look at offering a type of housing subdivision that we didn't have for the executive
level and some of the development communities' concern is how do I protect my
investments? If I am going to invest in a true class "a" type of - they were talking
about the (inaudible--) housing, but if you were to invest in a true class "a" type of
campus and if it is something that is big as 150 acres, how can you have some
assurance that some of the neighboring uses is not going to be a metal building
right next to your class "a"? You know, what happens across the street? Those
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
December 12. 2006
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are questions that I think that we all struggle with. But, having transitioned from
you know a high end, very expensive type of development to something that is
not compatible.
Canning: If I could go through the rest of this, I kind of touch on that at the last.
Wardle: Before you move off of base districts. I understand we specific zoning
current. Is this taking that a step further such as what we did with TN-R zone
that further defines sort of the scope?
Canning: Yep, exactly. You are adopting a new district that someone could
choose to ask for. Generally, there is some benefit to ask for that. This would be
probably the - a mix that is probably not allowed currently. If there is something
that they want that is not in the C-G zone, I would imagine that that is what would
happen. If there is some mix of uses that the current base districts don't provide,
then that would make some sense to make the new district.
Wardle: So, for that example in a C-G district your uses would not be allowed to
be residential --?
Canning: Yeah, I think single family detached might not be allowed, but if you
wanted to make those principally permitted (inaudible--). But, that would be the
general idea or maybe let's use like if you couldn't have a hospital right next to a
manufacturing plant, which is kind of what we are talking about being desirable,
then you certainly would want to come up with a new district that is specifically
allowed like a biomedical research building right next to a hospital. So, that is a
good example. Okay, moving onto overlay districts. Overlay districts are
generally a delineated area. So, it is a specific area and it is super-imposed on
top of the base zoning districts. So, you still have this underlying district that has
10 sticks in the bundle and then you put this overlay district and it may take away
one of them is generally what it does. They are usually used to protect certain
critical features of resources. Flood way is a real common example of an overlay
district. Slope or soils hazards or earthquake hazards (inaudible) have those.
Ada County and Boise City have a greenbelt overlay. So, you have got the flood
overlay and on top of that one, you have also got the greenbelt overlay for the
Boise River. Another one could be hospitals. By state code hospitals have to
maintain a separation distance from some obnoxious uses, like rendering
(inaudible) and things like that. They cannot go near those. It might make some
sense when an existing hospital goes in to say we are putting this overlay around
this hospital to make sure you guys don't go near this one in case they want to
expand their use. Our code already hits on a lot of those. It mimics the state's
separation standard, but there still might be some benefit to a hospital
(inaudible). State code calls those out specifically. I kind of wrote down as what
I see as the economic development districts, but this are a little more loose. You
have formal ones, such as MDC and I think we all understand what those are.
You could mimic those as a zoning district if you want - Old Town doesn't follow
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
December 12, 2006
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MDC exactly, but it may sometime in the future or maybe a combination of two
zones, but you could do something that followed those formal district boundaries
if desired. The informal districts - this is kind of one that I thought you might
want to consider. If the city had a (inaudible) strategic plan that said an
employment theme for an area - specified targets for employers for uses and
(inaudible) district uses. We could think about adopting that as an addendum to
the Comprehensive Plan, then in considering development applications you can
at least reference that document as, you know, is this consistent with the
Comprehensive Plan? Well, no, there is only high tech and we really wanted
agricultural. But, you could say it is still in the general desire of increasing the
economic benefit to the city, therefore, we still want to do it. It is just not going to
tie your hands as much as a specific base district will, but it lets you reference
that marketing plan. I am just a little worried that if we adopt a very specific base
district that says we only want these uses and then somebody comes in that has
this incredible use that we didn't contemplate and you have got to say, yeah, but
you have got a rezone now or you can't ask for that one because it is not
consistent with something or rather. So, I just worry a little bit about that in going
the base district route.
De Weerd: Now Anna is it possible kind of like how when Council heard the
application by Dave McKinnon and his (inaudible) and he was looking for a
comprehensive plan change which is quite different, but if you made this
something special - a conditional use permit, so you are not excluding it, but you
at least allow the opportunity for the elected members to say oh no I think this is
exactly - it is not within the parameters that were set, but it is exactly what we
think is potential.
Canning: I need more information-
De Weerd: One is permitted and the other one is a conditional use.
Canning: Right and you could specify that in the base district, but it was
conditional and then Planning and Zoning will make the decision.
Wardle: Pete do you want to come up?
Friedman: Following that kind of line of thinking, if that was a direction then
Council and you did identify the ranges of use of it that are desirable in there it
might be possible. If you have something that is unanticipated uses, which
allows that - puts kind of a burden of proof on it to demonstrate how they align
themselves - it is kind of the district (inaudible) that they need what we are after
there and it allows the director (inaudible--) and move forward. So, you could
have (inaudible) anticipated use section in there.
Bird: I can agree with what - I think Anna was 100 percent right on that. I can
foresee us setting up a district and then some big manufacturer comes in with
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
December 12, 2006
Page 13 of 20
100 or 200 jobs and wants to be in this district (inaudible--). I think - I am not
tying it down. I like Anna's informal economic deal (inaudible--).
Wardle: Just a thought Pete - so if we had just sort of a high tech district and
you had certain permitted uses and one of those was not the same industrial
user that manufactured "x"; however, they were able to prove (inaudible--) their
business impact and what is going on in their district and therefore it would need
to be located close to it. Is that kind of what you are --?
Friedman: Yeah, too many times in our zoning regulations and so forth, the city
will either conditionally permit it principally or permit it conditionally or you are
prohibited and have some room at least for some flexibility in there so that there
is - because we are never going to foresee everything. But, some kind of clause
language in there that says for unanticipated uses that our within the scope and
the intent of what we are trying to accomplish through this district and a burden of
proof upon the applicant to demonstrate the things that meets a purpose and a
similar (inaudible--) then allows it to go forward with conditional uses is sort of the
line of thought that I had.
Canning: Pete doesn't know our (inaudible) very well. Our code has a little bit of
that. What it says is that if there is a question as to which use that it falls under, I
do make that determination as to what the nearest appropriate use is. I use this
thick document that even the National Industrial Classification code and it needs
to be within three categories of that. You can be - I mean every use in the world
is within three categories, probably of something on our table. So, I haven't had
to make a judgment call yet. I can always find - but, sometimes I have to judge
between two that it may fall in between. But, usually both of them have the same
information (inaudible--). We do have a specific way of identifying how to treat
an unspecified use. Let me go onto the last one (inaudible--).
Wardle: Mr. Borton did you have something --?
Borton: No. My only comment was I wonder if there is too much window room,
is there some benefit of a developer coming in to want to go into a somewhat
rigid district, knowing that there is not going to be an opportunity for (inaudible) to
come into a later time and sway Council -
Canning: If it is someone like Mr. Baker or someone owning a large piece of
property and wanted to enter into a development agreement that said okay, I
want the C-G uses, except I don't want these. Then that effectively serves as a
new base history is what it does. But, it is just a negotiated contract and we don't
- I mean we have to keep track of the development agreement -
(Tape turned over)
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
December 12, 2006
Page 14 of 20
Canning: -- I can figure out better ways of tracking those things. So it effectively
becomes its own base district and whatever they want for that rather than having
to come up with a whole new category. What I have heard more is what the
Mayor was talking about where you want some protection on the adjoining
properties. Well, without rezoning then, you are not going to get it. But, what I
have heard about that protection is it is all land related. So, if it is design related,
you could do design standards as an overlay district. I started thinking about it
and I think it is one of kind of three or four things. You could either do it by
building type. You can say any non-single family detached home (inaudible--) is
subject to design guidelines. You could do it by district. You can say anything in
R-15, C-G, C-C, C-N or L-Q is subject to design regulations. You could do an
overlay district or entryway corridors and it is basically functioning as an overlay
district.
Borton: Or downtown design guidelines?
Canning: Yeah, downtown design guidelines would be another specific overlay
district - well, that one is tied to a base district (inaudible--). Then you could do
any combinations of those. You could do any non-residential structure in a C-G
zone that is on the overlay district. So, we could do that and then you would
have any - you know, as long as it is applied uniformly, any property that is
zoned I-L or any non-residential structure adjoining the medical district or
adjoining an overlay district and then at least you get those adjoining properties
or we just - at some times I think I hear you say any non-single family detached
structure. So, you know that could be it. You could have a set of residential
design guidelines and keep the old town design guidelines and then any other
non-residential structure (inaudible) probably some different ones for industrial
verses commercial. We can work that way, too. To me I think that it gets it - a
lot of the concerns that I have heard is more just working on the design
guidelines rather than coming up with new districts. That was my short
presentation. Just wherever you want to go, let me know.
Wardle: Thank you, Anna.
De Weerd: You know I guess similar, but maybe not and Charlie you and Keith
might have been here when maybe Joe or Shaun wasn't here - Meridian is a
(inaudible) community and that has certain advantages and I just don't know if
there are advantages to that or not and one thing that Anna and I found out that
we at one time and I don't know if you lose it if you don't use it, but if we are in
(inaudible) zone and those all should be considered as we look at different areas
of our town and possible (inaudible--) things that we can look at targeting an
industry. What we would like to do is have some general discussion right now,
but bring back a real specific update on the medical district after the beginning of
the year and as well start talking specifically and then maybe as myself and our
Economic Development contract and the planning on specific districts that we
could bring back for your agreement so then we can start working on analyzing it
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
December 12, 2006
Page 15 of 20
as to is it market based in reality and look to bring back a strategic marketing
plan on it. I don't want to really do that until we are willing to put it out there for
the world to see that these are things that our community would really seriously
like to consider in terms of specific industry districts in addition to our medical
district and start talking to potential partners (inaudible).
Bird: Mr. President I agree and I have some real concern over how stringent we
get with our deals. (Inaudible--) and if we don't we (inaudible--). I like the idea of
having those districts, but I think as Anna said I think (inaudible). I don't like
development agreements; I like them about as well as CUP's, but they are
weights of controlling development and they are the right to do it. As soon as
Anna gets her help or her technology to track it - they are not any good if we
can't track them and I think it is almost a full time job for somebody to track them.
I am not sure if that is the problem.
Canning: What I meant is I would like to get them tied to our geographic
information system.
Bird: Yes and I understand that. I think you hit it on the head. I like the informal
idea (inaudible). I would (inaudible) anybody to get together with our people or
whoever we are going to hire (inaudible--), sit down with them and let's bring
some plan forward and then let's go out and do it. (Inaudible--).
Rountree: (Inaudible--) actual guidance, but it seems to me that that is what
(inaudible--). I struggle with (inaudible--). (Inaudible--). You have another phase
of zoning (inaudible--). So, (inaudible--) first enter, first (inaudible--). I just
struggle with it. (Inaudible--). What does it take to get there and to me it is going
to take something that is very flexible (inaudible--).
De Weerd: Mr. President if I could. I guess we have had a couple of businesses
that we have done (inaudible--) that came and were looking at this area did not
(inaudible) here. They (inaudible) like the protection of the district and these are
more on the high end, class "a" manufacturing, research type of areas and so if
you are looking at that they are looking for that protection because it is essential
to them who locates in and around them to be successful in and of themselves.
So if they look for those and their investment is not only in their facility, but the
investment in the workforce and the kind of people that they want to attract and
retain, it is an essential requirement for that too. So, where they have located,
have had those kind of protections and I guess that is why I started asking those
questions, can we do that? But, have the opportunity to not exclude, but give
them a window, a foot in through procedures and have an audience with Council
and say this is the type of business we are. This is why we feel that we are a
compatible use because they will be creating or utilizing that synergy as well and
will keep (inaudible--). Again, we are talking investment here. In particular a
medical district - the kind of investments that they are making and their facilities
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
December 12, 2006
Page 16 of 20
is quite substantial and that assurance to them has an impact on their type of
business.
Bird: Tammy I agree with you except for one thing. We don't want to forget the
heavy industrial, the Yanke Machine shops, the Boise Locomotives and people
like that and the money and stuff they bring into it. If you get yourself tied up in
one type of district and they have a (inaudible) in their economy, it hurts. I don't
believe that we can exclude. We need to have districts. I mean, you don't want
to put a machine shop or a big industrial manufacturer in the middle of a hospital
district.
De Weerd: But, see that is what we are saying -
Bird: -- and that is what I am agreeing -
De Weerd: And these would just be where you wanted a specialty district and
not consume our whole city.
Bird: Let's don't completely worrying about class "a" districts or whatever you
want to call them or medical or ~ but, we don't want to forget the industrial.
De Weerd: Oh. you are right about that.
Bird: And right now, we are short of industrial ground.
Wardle: I would say that we don't have to look much further than either Detroit or
Silicon Valley to see examples of what specifying one industry will do to your
population if that industry (inaudible--). One of the questions that I have and just
kind of a follow up on some of the things that Charlie has talked about is I have
heard time and time again and I have heard through these discussions that the
developers want the assurance that they will essentially have control over
properties outside their own property and as we have seen some of the most
successful and fastest growing (inaudible) in our community are ones with large
plots of land that are controlled by an individual and they develop it to their
standards and they guarantee that success. As ground prices quadruple and
triple and move forward it becomes less likely that any number one or co-op of
individuals can get a large piece of property to develop together. So, one of the
things that I have is that if the city is looking at overlaying those areas, much like
a developer would for their individual project. Design standards for zoning
qualifications and all those sorts of things - how are we then going to give
assurance that those will not change with certain whims? I mean, do you give
them a say as - MDC has a Board of Directors which in Meridian is separate
from the city. That is not always the case in Idaho, sometimes (inaudible) City
Council and that is the route that Meridian chose to go. So, do you set up
different boards for these entities? Is it a function of planning and that is kind of
the discussion I am wondering?
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
December 12, 2006
Page 17 of 20
Canning: Keith isn't in striking distance so I am okay., but specific area plans
would be a good way of achieving those. A lot of communities look at - that is
why they do specific area plans because you have a challenging area that can't
develop very well - piecemeal - you go in and you do an overall plan for them so
that they can bring their properties in. I mean, we have been lucky so far. We
have developers that amass large quantities of land that bring in large projects,
but we are getting down to the smaller ones. I would anticipate that the Ten Mile
won't be our one and only specific area plan that - find a need to do others. The
four square miles south of Chinden, west of McDermott will be another area - a
good specific area plan. Those are still in large ownership, so those may come
in all together. I keep on getting the word out that somebody should acquire all
of those, but we will see how much somebody can get. I think there will be
opportunities for more specific area plan. Boise City does neighborhood plans
for largely developed areas. They go in and just kind of deal with the infill aspect
for a neighborhood plan. I remember seeing a real benefit out of that one myself,
but that is another way (inaudible--).
Bird: You hit iton the head, Anna -large developments (inaudible--). (Inaudible)
- continue on with this and get some kind of a plan together. It is not going to
100 percent right, but at least it will give you something to work for.
De Weerd: No, we hope we can bring you back something more specific to
really chew on and give us feedback and more specific ideas - David is the
Planning and Zoning Commissioner and I know you have been to a part of it
when we talked earlier, do you have any questions or observations?
Zaremba: (Inaudible--).
De Weerd: I know that is kind of what the (inaudible--) was in the past - the
Planning and Zoning (inaudible--).
Wardle: So, obviously we have had some sort of an initial discussion and need
more specific planning. The question for me is that implementation is attached to
our comprehensive plan - goes as far as zoning ordinance at some point? What
triggers right now the involvement? How do people become involved in those
districts other than marketing and recruitment, when do they know about it?
Canning: I was suggested a strategic marketing plan and if it says we need a
medical district that has these uses - you know we need to be able to have this
use next to this use and allow this and make sure that we can't have this. Then
we can evaluate whether that needs to be in the zoning district or whether it can
just be a negotiated agreement. I don't know enough - I haven't been talking to
these medical professionals or these developers. I don't know what they need
yet. I haven't been able to (inaudible) that from any conversation. I have heard
the design stuff. I have clearly heard that, but I haven't heard the use stuff and
the use stuff is what these groups are about. Mostly about defining an allowed
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
December 12, 2006
Page 18 of 20
set of uses. If in the development standards, we can address those as well, but if
there is not going to be any change in use, it is kind of silly to have a change in
development standards. We can have design guidelines, but it doesn't make
sense to have a district that says you can go 45 feet instead of 35 feet if that is
the only change in the district (inaudible--).
Wardle: Well, I guess there is going to be that sort of fine line to run, which is the
flexibility to allow what you want, but giving some certainty to the people that
would develop if you are not going to allow some others. That is sort of where I
am kind of trying to figure out where the balance is.
De Weerd: But that those other things are allowed somewhere and that is what I
get from Keith's - because we are trying to diversify our economic base, so that
when there is a downturn in any particular type of industry that you don't paralyze
your whole community and that is important. One of the things that I did want to
follow up on those incentives is the benefit of designating a certain corridor or an
area for business industry cluster is you know the infrastructural type in these
and you know the type is compatible uses, so that you can start working on those
and one of the things that I can see that the city starting doing is looking then at
what the workforce requirements are so that you are even providing housing
closer to these kind of larger scale employers that your industry, your subdivision
developers can respond and provide those. Again, we cannot build ourselves
out of congestion, but what we can do is maybe reverse our planning and saying
what do we want to be and we know the demographics of our community; it is
white collar, it is higher educated, it is a certain type of family orient, our wage
scale is on the higher end of the region and so we want to continue to attract
those kind of jobs and provide them the opportunity to work and live in this
community and ideally nearby where their work that they are living there. So, by
better understanding infrastructural needs and understanding what kind of
workforce they attract, similar to what we are doing with our south Meridian area;
if this is your medical corridor and you know that these are the kind of salaries
and I will tell you what right now they are the top four salaries in the nation, the
kind of workforce that the medical district would be catering to then we need the
housing stocked so that they don't have to all live in other communities because
we don't have it there. So, it is kind of a reverse way of planning even your
housing needs is what do we want to work to attract in our jobs? It is a different
way of thinking.
Canning: Some of them may be base district. Some of them, you know, might
be an informal district (inaudible) - once you got a real vision for what those
districts were, I could see that some of them will be part informal and one may
need to be very formal depending on what mix of uses that would be appropriate
- the rail corridor might be an informal one, but where the claimants (inaudible)
south Meridian might be an informal one, where others might be more formal.
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
December 12, 2006
Page 19 of 20
Wardle: Even (inaudible) a high industrial rail corridor is that what we are talking
about?
Canning: Well. just something that had a spur on it that made use of the rail
corridor.
Bird: Anna, don't you think that like Micron and HP as examples - when HP was
built then you have got the gray bar and mires and all of those subdivisions to
build by it? Not all of them are HP employers, but a lot of them are so it was like
Tammy was saying you keep the travel down to a minimum. When Micron got
going out there good and you had southeast Boise, Columbia Village - shocked
how many people there work at Micron (inaudible--). That is what I kind of
envision that we need to try to encourage.
(Inaudible discussion)
Wardle: Council, Madame Mayor, thank you for the presentation and discussion.
Is there anything further?
De Weerd: Just that we would like to bring this back in January for a second
more detailed discussion. Between now and at some point in January I would
like to have our Economic Development team and Planning and myself and get
together - if we have a Councilmember that is interested, we would love to have
the Council perspective on that and that we can start having some more specific
discussions and put together game plan.
Borton: You envision at this stage with regards to just the medical district - first it
is the district application (inaudible)?
De Weerd: I think I would like to look at some of the things that we have learned
in the medical district and how they might apply to other specific focus areas in
other parts of the city.
Wardle: I think that includes also your essentially feasibility study as to what
were those other allowed clusters be and is it feasible, is there a good enough
mix with the city? Not (inaudible) development in other areas, but is there
enough incentive for those individual clusters to - are they feasibly long term, I
guess?
Bird: (Inaudible--).
De Weerd: And Keith that was going to be my comment. There is a group of
developers that have employment designated in their larger developments that
want to be a part of a district and have some ideas. So, again, it is flushing some
of that out and $ee what the practicality is looking at transportation corridors. So,
a lot of these other types of developments and employment centers need to be
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
December 12, 2006
Page 20 of 20
around transportation corridors and so it is just starting that more in depth
discussion.
Wardle: Great.
Bird: I move we adjourn out of Pre-Council.
Borton: Second.
Wardle: It has been moved and seconded to adjourn the Pre-Council meeting
this evening. All in favor.
ALL AYES. MOTION CARRIED.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 6:30 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
APPROVED:
ATTESTED'
WILLIAM G. BERG,
2-/6/07
DATE APPROVED
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