HomeMy WebLinkAbout2006 12-05 Pre
Meridian City Pre~Council Meetina
December 5, 2006
The Meridian City Pre-Council meeting was called to order at 5:30 P.M. on
Tuesday, December 5,2006 by President Councilman Shaun Wardle.
Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, Keith Bird (arrived at 5:39), Shaun
Wardle, Charlie Rountree and Joe Borton.
Staff Present: Ted Baird, Doug Strong, Brad Watson, Len Grady, Anna Canning,
Pete Friedman, Bruce Freckleton, Bill Musser and Will Berg.
Item 1.
RolI~call Attendance:
Roll call.
X Shaun Wardle
X Charlie Rountree
X
X Joe Borton
o Keith Bird
Mayor Tammy de Weerd
Item 2. Adoption of the Agenda:
Rountree: Mr. President I move that we adopt the Pre-Council agenda as
proposed.
Borton: Second.
Wardle: It has been moved and seconded to adopt the agenda. All in favor.
THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT. MOTION CARRIED.
Item 3.
Presentation I Discussion of Draft Master Pathway Plan by Alta
Planning and Design:
Wardle: Our Parks Director, Doug Strong will introduce this item. Welcome
Doug.
Strong: Thank you Mr. President, Madame Mayor and Members of the Council.
It is my pleasure to introduce two representatives from our consultant group, Alta
Planning and Design tonight that are here to present to you a first look at the - it
is still a draft document for our update to our master pathway plan, but it will give
you an idea of how it came together and they have done a great job in a
relatively short period of time in bringing a lot of detail to this pathway plan. So, it
is a first opportunity to look at that. We have with us tonight Mr. George Hudson
at the table who will be running the keyboard for the presentation and presenting
to you is Mike Tressiter from Alta Planning & Design.
Wardle: Thank you, Doug. Welcome Mike.
Tressiter: Thank you. Thank you Doug and thank you Council for allowing us
this opportunity. As Doug mentioned this is still a draft plan and tonight will just
be a brief overview of the plan organization and the major components of this
plan. So, in the process this involved actually extensive field work. We walked
out and walked pretty much all of the existing and proposed pathway alignments
with a GPS device, which resulted in a pretty huge photo library of these
alignments. One of our goals was to look at and say the pathway should be
here, rather than the more general plan from 2003 (inaudible) corridors identified
but left the exact location of the pathway up in the air. So, that is one of our
major goals. We also had public process. We held two public open houses.
The first involved the presentation and then we broke down into smaller groups
and the second open house we had several tables looking at different
components of the plan with small group discussion. We also had four meetings
with the Technical Advisory Committee for the pathways group and they are a
subcommittee of the Parks Technical Advisory Committee. We also held
meetings with ACHD, representatives of ITD as well as Nampa Meridian
Irrigation District.
Wardle: Mike before you go forward, could you give us the makeup of that
Technical Advisory Committee?
Tressiter: The entire makeup? I think it would be - I don't have an entire list
here in front of me.
Wardle: Doug who was represented there?
Strong: The Technical Advisory Committee is made of - it is a subcommittee of
our Park and Recreation Commission as well as members from Police, Fire - we
had representatives from Planning who became a community member -- at one
point, Steve Siddoway was on the Committee so he transitioned his role a little
bit. I think that is everyone.
Tressiter: Thank you, Doug. (Inaudible) is organized. There is an introduction,
an overview of the importance of pathways, how they fit into Meridian - looking at
existing conditions, then design guidelines which led into our recommended
pathway network and then we talked about management and maintenance and
safety guidelines for the operation of the pathway system. So, this did not occur
in a vacuum. We are building on previous planning efforts and just listed some of
the documents that we looked at, that we built upon and then identified pathways
in this area and also bicycle, pedestrian planning that occurred in this area -
Regional (inaudible) Rivers, the Ada County (inaudible) transition plan, local
building on the Parks Comprehensive Plan, the Comprehensive Plan itself, the
Transportation Management Plan and also the South Meridian Study Plan. We
also looked at the adjacent communities. Boise had the most comprehensive
Parks and Recreation plan. We also looked at Kuna, Eagle, and Nampa trying to
see where those connections could be made as far as a regional pathway
system went. The goals of this plan, they are listed up there on the board.
Primarily, looking at recreational opportunities for pathways. We are also not
discounting utilitarian need, but this is primarily a recreational plan. We also
want to enhance pathway development, provide access for all types of users and
provide those community linkages, provide amenities, make sure that we
maintain and provide maintenance and emergency access along the pathway
system and to make sure that we can identify future pathway corridors that we
would like to preserve. So, as I mentioned the types of trips and we are looking
at primarily recreational trips, although we are not discounting at all and
identifying where possible more utilitarian needs as far as commuting by bike,
shopping, trips of those nature. We identified nearly 12 miles completed pathway
within the existing system here in Meridian. Partially completed pathways
include the Bud Porter Memorial Pathway, which is along Five Mile Creek,
portions of what we are calling the Meridian loop and then also portions of the
pathway along Ridenbaugh Canal. So, we identified some general opportunities
and strengths that would affect the pathway development. Meridian is the fastest
growing city and the fastest growing county here in the State of Idaho. So,
population growth - trying to serve the needs of just the growing population and
that population is growing in demographic areas, under 17 over 65 where those
types of users may not have such a wide range of transportation options and
could really use a comprehensive pathway system for both recreation and
transportation. Development - as developments occurred here in Meridian,
especially residential development. The development communities worked very
well with planning to actually implement those pathways found in the 2003 plan
and that is something that we want to build upon in this plan and then the history
and just building upon the agricultural and commercial history of Meridian in the
Treasure Valley and incorporating some of those elements into the pathway plan
and into the pathway elements. So, some of the specific opportunities and
constraints of pathway development, there are primarily two types of pathways
found within the City of Meridian. The first picture is of the Bud Porter Pathway
and that is a separated pathway in its own right-of-way in its own corridor,
separated from the roadway itself. Then in the second picture is a residential
pathway found in many of the new developments where the pathway parallels
the road, usually it is a wider sidewalk on one side with a nice six to eight foot
buffer from the roadway. Desirable destinations - making sure that people can
reach those destinations that they are trying to get to. The wonderful park
system here in Meridian, schools, downtown. Pathway fragmentation - this is
one of the biggest constraints here currently in the pathway system. This picture
is from a development pathway that was actually along a canal and developers
seem to know exactly where their project ends and so what we are trying to do is
find those areas where we can connect up and extend those contiguous lengths
of pathway here in Meridian. Environmental conditions - building on and
enhancing the environmental conditions of the existing waterways, preserving
those waterways with native vegetation, getting out garbage debris, riff-raff and
things of that nature and then utilizing those accessible corridors - the canal and
waterway system is such a great amenity and being able to capitalize upon that
and use it as is the rail corridor that goes right through town, east west - that is a
wonderful regional amenity that we would like to build upon and then signage
pathway orientation. This is really the only - one of the few pathway signs out
there and this is more dedicated as a memorial identifying this is a Bud Porter
Pathway, but making sure there is consistent signage throughout the system and
making sure people know that they are using the Meridian pathway system when
they are on it. Many of those developer pathways, even though they are different
in sort of the style and materials used, people may not know that they are using
the Meridian pathway system and so we want to make sure that there is
consistent signag8 throughout so people know that they are using a wonderful
amenity when they are on it. Then finally, safety is always an issue and when
you are utilizing canal corridors, pathway roadway crossings is going to be an
issue. So, we really wanted to address that and talk about getting people safely
across roadways, looking at routing to existing intersections, but where that may
not be possible, establishing safe mid-block crossing or other types of crossings
so that users will be safe and use those crossings. So, the third chapter is all
about design guidelines. We have identified three major types of pathway
designs. There is the canal pathways and within that there are designs along
canals and laterals and this came out of our discussion with Nampa Meridian and
along canals and laterals, they would really like to see the establishment of the
maintenance road, plus a pathway that is separated from the maintenance road.
As you can see in the top illustration, that would be by fence or in the bottom
illustration on maintenance road on one side of the canal or lateral and pathway
on the other side. The other waterways - drainages and ditches they were more
amenable to having just a pathway, sharing that with maintenance road as they
are less concerned with having to get there and do maintenance. Another type is
a residential pathway as you saw in that earlier photo, primarily it is a wider
sidewalk on one side, separated by a minimum of six feet, I think that is still up
for discussion - six to eight feet from the roadway and that is designed for
bicyclists, pedestrians and other types of non-motorized use. What we started
calling the Boise Valley Rail With Trail - this illustration illustrates the pathway in
the corridor with just the active rail. There is generally about a 200 foot
easement right-of-way along this corridor, so there is plenty of space for both of
these activities and then the next slide shows actually three uses within this
corridor, the pathway, a high speed transit corridor, which COMPASS and others
are looking into currently as well as the active rail line and there is still plenty of
right-of-way for all three uses to coexist within this corridor. Then in some cases,
where it is not possible to (inaudible) directly along a canal or waterway, we have
identified urban pathways where we are utilizing neighborhood streets, low
volume streets and in the case of a neighborhood or low volume street, bicyclists
would be directed to use the roadway (inaudible) comfortable there. These are
speeds and traffic volumes that would be comfortable for bicyclists on the road
and then pedestrians on the adjacent sidewalk. Then on occasion there are
locations where we may have to route users to a collector or arterial street and
there we would recommend striping a bike lane, this obviously falls into - would
require working with Ada County Highway District for those types of roads and
then - but striping a bike lane and then having pedestrians on the sidewalk
adjacent. We also look at conditional designs within this chapter. We provide
some additional signage striping guidelines and recommendations and we
provide - we look at additional amenities like trash cans, benches, ballards and
provide designs for those, so if developers come to the city and say well what
should this ballard look like or what should this bench look like? The Parks and
Recreation Department will have that available to say this is what you need to
install. We also address universal access - designing for universal access and
ADA accessibility to make sure that the pathway system is available to all users
and to all residents of Meridian. As I mentioned, pathway roadway crossings
deal with safety and is an important issue and so we take a good look at that and
we identified four types of crossings. So type one marked or un-signalized
crossing or type one plus, which would be a marked or enhanced using
(inaudible) in payment flashers or the signal box above the roadway -- this is an
example. Type two, routing users to existing intersections. This is something
that we have looked at, especially where canals come out of near major
intersections, trying to find a way to route pathway users to that existing
intersection, rather than crossing the block, where mid-block crossings might be
needed. Type three would be signalized or controlled. This is a mid-block
crossing on the Spring Water Corridor in Portland, OR and they installed the
signals, which are activated by a ped signal for the pathway users. Then the final
type would be over crossing, primarily looking at dedicated separated crossings
of 1-84 for pathway users, since that is a major barrier within the city. This chart
here looks at perhaps a brief glance at some of these (inaudible) crossing
recommendations and this is the plan that will come before you, separated by
vehicle volumes and traffic speeds. So, what we produce is our draft pathway
map. As you can see all of the dotted lines are proposed pathways, so all of
these dotted lines here are proposed pathways, primarily along canals. These
solid lines -- this is the Bud Porter Pathway are existing segments of pathway
within the City of Meridian going from Kiwanis Park and then east toward Boise.
So, as I mentioned there are primarily two types of pathways within the city and
so there is really sort of two different development processes and implementation
processes. The first one where the city secures funding and constructs the
pathway, such as the Bud Porter Pathway and the second one which has been
the primary driver for the pathway system recently here in Meridian. The
developer as they are doing primarily residential development builds their portion
of the pathway that connects through the development basically following the on
the map from the 2003 pathway plan. What we identified were three classes of
projects and we looked at those projects that fall under the City of Meridian
responsibility, looking at gap closures, primarily in the built out areas of the city
trying to connect existing portions of existing pathways and the developer
pathways in those areas of the city where development has not yet occurred as
the city grows and as residential development continues, then the developer will
put in the pathway as they are building. We also identified major works, which
involves the rail with trail and then 1-84 over crossings. I will discuss all of these
a little more. So, the City of Meridian and what we identified were those gap
closures and we applied a selection criteria that is listed there to each segment of
pathway, they would still fall under - that we felt was the primary responsibility of
the City of Meridian and what we ended up with was a table of tier one, tier two
and tier three projects. Tier one being your short term, you know, in the next five
or six years. Tier two being in the next five to ten years and then tier three being
more long term projects. Developer pathways are listed there on the right. We
did not rank these at all. We just looked at them and said these are in areas that
are not yet built out. As the city grows then these pathways will get built. So, we
did not - how the city grows is not something that we can see and as I mentioned
the major works, the Boise Valley Rail With Trail be a major regional connection,
you know connecting from Nampa, Caldwell through to Boise. So, that would be
a regional effort required. It will be eligible for federal funding. Same with the 1-
84 over crossing, it will be multi jurisdictional, working with ITD, working with
ACHD to identify those appropriate locations. Also in the recommended pathway
network we have pathway descriptions of each individual pathway that we
identified. This is based on extensive fieldwork that I had described earlier and
provides detailed descriptions of the location of existing pathways and the
recommendations for proposed pathways. So, this is just one example slide of
the pathway description sheets. You have the pathway identified and shows you
which side of the canal or roadway that the pathway is recommended to be on
and there is a table that goes with it. It says it goes - it will go from to, so say
from Linder to Meridian a description of that pathway, any crossings in that
section, the length of that segment and then whether that segment is proposed or
built. So there is nineteen sheets of these describing each individual pathway
with all that detail. So, the estimated long term costs for the gap closures, we
estimated it at about $18 million as the City of Meridian and this does not include
those developer pathways that we mentioned. It will occur as development
occurs and then does not include the major works, as I mentioned the Boise
Valley Rail With Trail and the 1-84 crossing, which will require working with multi
jurisdictions and the case of the Rail With Trail securing federal funding. Finally,
the last chapter looks at management, maintenance and safety issues. So, we
looked at roles and responsibilities for pathway management. Parks and
Recreations' staff looking at implementation, looking at management of the
system, making sure it is safe and secure for users -- for the Technical Advisory
Committee and basically maintaining the current direction, providing direction,
helping identify priorities, helping identifying funding opportunities and then
property management - working with ACHD to identify crossings, identify
appropriate types of crossings, dealing with encroachments from private property
into easements that might have been acquired and then establishing and
maintaining pathway regulations. These help promote safety and enhance the
enjoyment of the pathway system. So, the maintenance guidelines that we have
provided look at maintaining the paved service, vegetation and pest
management, dealing with litter and illegal dumping, signage as I mentioned and
maintaining consistent signage, making sure that it is updated and not
vandalized. Then pathway access points and making sure that there is again
signage at those locations as well and safety - providing good access to the
pathway system, making sure there are eyes on the pathway from adjacent
neighborhoods, maintaining that high level of maintenance by making sure the
pathways are swept, not crumbling, programmed events, community projects,
adopt a pathway program and these are described in detail in the plan and I will
talk about how it enhances the safety of the pathway system. Are there any
questions? I know that was just a brief overview, but I appreciate the time.
Wardle: Thank you, Mike. I assume a draft of this document is (inaudible)
before Council review?
Strong: Mr. President, Madame Mayor, Council we do have the first draft of this
plan. We have reviewed it as recently as today for some additional edits and
once I think those edits are complete then I suspect it is ready to go out for some
wider review at that pOint. So, we thought it was important to get at least an
overview of what will be detailed in the plan in front of you today, so that you can
anticipate that when it comes your way. It is 160 some pages I think of a plan.
So, it is very extensive and very detailed. We didn't discuss a timeframe for the
edits that we talked about today and getting them back. I don't know if you want
to venture a guess for that, since I put you on the spot right now.
Tressiter: George?
Hudson: Well, the edits that we went over today will not take very long. I would
say this time next week we will have the majority ready to roll. I think it is more of
my personal edits that you could take along with yours.
Tressiter: And we are pressing up on the holidays.
Strong: Maybe just to add to that - this draft came to me initially electronically so
that's probably how it will be sent out to you is an electronic version because it is
a lot to print. You can choose to print it or read it electronically or however you
want. I would think that that would be the easiest way to distribute this initial
draft.
Wardle: Thank you, Doug. I would certainly prefer it electronically. Mr.
Rountree?
Rountree: Mr. President. You indicated that you had GPS'd all of these current
and proposed pathways. Was that done in such a way as it can be compatible
with our GIS database?
Tressiter: Yeah and actually the lines on the map are from - the system we used
had a GPS attached to a palm pilot and it actually provides us into a mode that
we can just put it right into the GIS. So, the pathways up on the one map that
showed the entire pathway system, those are the GPS coordinates dropped right
into the GIS.
Rountree: And another question. Actually it is a comment and I don't know if the
Boise Valley Rail With Trail is a monacure that has been established, but my
preference would be at Treasure Valley.
Tressiter: Oh. The last time we were in the room we looked at the - but I don't
think a preference had been expressed either way.
De Weerd: There is an edit. Mr. Chairman.
Wardle: Madame Mayor.
De Weerd: I wondered how outside - you mentioned three tiers and so I imagine
that gives priority to at least connecting one or more systems.
Tressiter: Yes, it does and connectivity was certainly one of those criteria that
we looked at in establishing those tiers. It should also be noted that for those of
the recommended priorities, this is a living document and can be revisited and
maybe priorities change. So, yeah, obviously connectivity and making sure that
those larger portions - connecting those up so that you have a nice extensive
pathway.
De Weerd: And in your tiered system, how did you start prioritizing what would
be short and what would be longer term?
Tressiter: It is almost natural breaks after and in the appendix it has provided the
point system that we used to break those out into tiers and it is basically natural
breaks. You can see sort of clumping of different pathways and different
segments.
De Weerd: Okay and just one last question. The Boise River connection would
be an important element to add -
Tressiter: -- north to - yeah -
De Weerd: -- and how it would connect to that.
Tressiter: That is something that has come out and actually that was one of our
comment points was stressing those regional connections, you know east to
Boise, north to Eagle and the Greenbelt and so that will be something that you
will see when the draft comes before you.
De Weerd: Yeah, because I guess in a priority system, I would imagine it would
be how to not only look at recreational trails, but how you can use your higher
priority ones as alternative transportation type of moving (inaudible--).
Tressiter: Yes and that was something with Rail With Trail, I mean, it would be
recreational, but it would be a wonderful commuter amenity as well.
Borton: Mr. President.
Wardle: Mr. Borton.
Borton: A couple of questions. The $18 million does that come from the
estimated value of the 15 foot right-of-way or is it (inaudible) purchasing larger
parcels?
Tressiter: It is looking at construction. It is looking at a ten foot wide pathway
and then any crossings and then any major other issues if you would need a
boardwalk or something of that nature. Then their built in some contingencies,
some design and construction management as well.
Borton: Okay and I haven't seen the report - I presume or hope somewhere in
there a list of the assumptions that are made to go into some of these
recommendations or conclusions from the expense of construction. They are
included in there?
Tressiter: Yeah.
Borton: Okay. Good. Thanks.
Wardle: Thank you, Mike. Thank you, George, Doug, staff as well as the
Committee. This is something that this Council has been asking for a number of
years. It will help our community grow and as we have people come in for
development applications, we can better lead them in how to connect our
community and it certainly sets the priorities for the Department. This looks
great. Proceed forward, please and forward that electronic document to the
Council, understanding we are still in draft form. I think that would give us an
opportunity to review it.
Tressiter: Okay. Thank you very much for your time.
Wardle: Before we move to Item No.4, I would like to recognize the attendance
of Councilman Bird at roughly 5:40. Welcome, Mr. Bird.
Item 4.
Discussion I Update of Meridian Heights I Kentucky Ridge
Subdivisions Proposed Request for Annexation:
Wardle: Legal Counselor Public Works - who is going to report? Len?
Grady: Mr. President, Madame Mayor and Members of the Council, Tim Tyree
who is representing the Home Owner's Association for Meridian Heights and
Kentucky Ridge has amended his proposal for annexation and is basically here
tonight to ask for a re-consideration. Just to remind you, roughly a month ago we
went through and had a PowerPoint presentation and I will see if I can bring that
up, but I think it is best to turn it over to Tim.
Wardle: Thank you, Len. Mr. Tyree.
Tyree: Thank you, Mr. President. It wouldn't be an appropriate presentation
without handouts, if I may.
Baird: Be sure to give your name and address for the record, sir.
Tyree: Mr. President, Madame Mayor, Members of the Council. My name is Tim
Tyree; I serve as Counsel to the Meridian Heights Water and Sewer Association.
You may recall from our last discussion here the issues facing the Association
really come down to one of money. We have a situation where we need to
resolve our water quality issues. Our water quality has come out of compliance
given changes in the federal regulations on the amount of uranium that can be
permitted from the new contaminant levels within the water and once sewer has
become available to the subdivision, we need to decommission our current sewer
lagoon ponds. There are two sewer lagoon pondS out in this subdivision, which
would be decommissioned and reclaimed for a future subdivision. My goal here
tonight is an outline for the terms of a potential contract. I would like to first start
off much like if anyone remembers the grade school days when they had to
produce their book reports, skip to the very end, last paragraph, last page of this
book, which really focuses on and I wanted to bring this to - an issue as far as
the nonbinding nature of what we are talking about here. There are a number,
from my understanding, a number of members from the Meridian Heights
subdivisions and the important part here is to understand that this is a matter that
needs to be presented to the homeowners and will require homeowner approval
before I can even move forward - understanding it also requires your approval as
well. So, I wanted to make sure that I have made that point clear. The last time
that I was here, our major problem was one of water meters. If you recall the
Meridian Heights subdivision does not have water meters or water meter setters,
which we are estimating a cost anywhere between $300,000 and $500,000 for
the completion of that. The Kentucky Ridge subdivision is a much newer
subdivision. It is, based on my understanding and I think Len can confirm, it is
built to current standards for a modern subdivision, but the Meridian Heights
being an older subdivision is not. So, getting that to a point of working with and
being able to be accepted by the city is our major point here. What I have come
to you today with is a proposal very similar to the one that I had discussed with
your Public Works Department and had brought to you previously, but with the
exclusion of dealing with the water meter and setters issue. We are currently
working through the IDEO has a loan program that will allow us to borrow the
money to install the water meters and meter setters, unfortunately that loan
program would not fund until the earliest of June 1 st and since we have a water
quality issue, we need to get that resolved as early as possible. So, what I am
proposing today is to allow the water connection to move forward as quickly as
possible and we would continue to deal with the Association handling the billing,
which was another issue that we had before you and I found a resolution to that
and try to move forward with that. So if I may rather quickly, move through this
letter and then I would stand for any questions that you may have. The water
and sewer hookup fees at $285 that is your current rate minus the amount that is
set forth in your fee for the actual water meter and installation. So, that amount
is a fixed price in conformance with your current regulations. The request that I
am asking is to start off with a connection to the water at $375 and as you can
see from the cost breakdown that you have down there, the water hookup fee is
actually $435 as a breakout in component. My challenge that I have is in how I
am working on funding this with the Association. So, I would ask for a partial
deferral of the water hookup fees until I can hook up to the sewer. The goal for
the Association is by selling the land, selling its assets under which are currently
the sewer lagoon ponds, when that land sells and I will have a contract to put all
of this together. So, I will have a contractual right to - when that land then sells, I
can then hook up to the sewer and pay the remainder of your fees. So, my
challenges here are coming up with the proper timing and I am off a bit on that.
The water and sewer connection would be a two point water and sewer
connection, it would be a main point sewer connection. The details of this in
trying to keep with the brief discussion here would be worked out with your
Planning Department so that we would work through those details. It would be a
two point connection - one off to the Meridian Heights, the second off to the
Kentucky Ridge and that would be two water meters set at that location. The
rates would be standard rates. Sewer would bill at the flat rate based on winter
water usage. The system ownership - this is the point in the change which I am
asking for - the system ownership, the ownership of the lines is what I am talking
about here, the water and sewer lines. I am not talking about the sewer lagoon
ponds or any of the wells, none of those liabilities. The water and sewer lines
would be conveyed to the city and that would include half the lines past the point
of connection where those water meters are. Billing would be done by the
Association. It would be our hope that at some point and time, once we get the
water meters set over and the water meter setters done and then we would turn
the entire billing over to the city, but that would obviously be resolved once
everyone had a water meter involved, so we would not be dealing with that issue
that we were discussing last time. The water rights is how I am funding the initial
cost for the water system hookup as Len presented last time and as I think can
be confirmed by Ed Squires, our water rights given their age, does have a value
to the city and that has been (inaudible) at $375 and my understanding is that Ed
Squires will be providing you with some backup information to support that
amount. The sewer lagoon water is a function that we have been discussing with
Len and as far as trying to get that water out of the sewer lagoon ponds. It helps
us to try and balance this out - with the water connection we would then have the
ability to be annexed into the city. It is obviously a point of contention in part with
some of our homeowners, but we feel that if we can put an entire package
together that the wisdom of this, certainly works out for the best as far as the
homeowners and in all honesty homeowners would have the opportunity to
discuss that and approve that and ultimately would be a part of that. But, the
annexation would be consented too based on that water connection. So, I
apologize for rushing through that, but if you have any questions I would be
happy to answer any you may have. My hope here today is that with some
discussion, direction from you we can take this brief outline through your
Planning Department and through Legal Counsel and formalize an agreement for
your final approval, as well as a final approval from our constituents as well.
Wardle: Thank you, Tim. Council?
Bird: Mr. President.
Wardle: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I don't have a question for Tim, but I do for Brad or Len. What are your
thoughts on this? You are the one that has to deal with it.
Grady: Well, I think a couple of points that are worth mentioning, Meridian
Heights water and sewer lines are what I would call substandard. We would be
taking over probably what would - well, I would phrase it as a liability. Kentucky
Ridge water and sewer, I believe was put into current standards. We did view a
partial set of tapes that they had - the sewer lines camera in there. There is a
significant amount of inflow into those and that type of stuff. That kind of
concerns me. The other issue is I believe they are still asking to waive the well
development fees of $285,000. Is that correct?
Tyree: The well development fee was something that was discussed last time
and we haven't discussed it since then or excuse me, Mr. President, Members of
the Council, I didn't know the well development fee is a part of the - is an
expense that we are expected to cover. It was something new. I assumed it was
something that picked up from everyone, otherwise I need to go back to the
drawing board because I thought as far as fees were concerned the water and
sewer hookup fee was the fee.
Grady: Okay, we probably didn't make ourselves clear. Actually Brad picked it
up at a meeting, I don't know a month or so prior to the Council that you guys
don't have a PI system and normally we charge $1,000 per lot to cover future
well development because we are going to be basically sprinkling lawns, I guess
is the best way of describing it.
Tyree: Okay. There are a few lots that would be available to have the
pressurized irrigation system, so it would minimize that amount a bit, but I see
your point. Then yes at this time I would be asking for a waiver of the well
development fee and I struggle at that point. I don't know how I would
necessarily fund that. That is going to come out of - to my knowledge that is not
something that could be funded under the DEQ's program. So, I would just have
to deal with it. So, at this time, yes, we are asking for a waiver of the well
development fee.
Borton: Mr. President.
Wardle: Mr. Borton.
Borton: In a much broader context and my concern about the situation is you
haven't had the opportunity to talk with the homeowners and make sure they are
all on board in all the specific terms and I know annexation is one of the tops of
list of the stickiest issues, so it seems at least in my mind well premature to have
any discussion about what we like or don't like if we don't know what your clients
like. My suggestion would be that once you and your clients know the specific
terms that you are willing to agree to and only then does it come before Council
and again afterwards work through the staff and then our Legal Department for
us to consider because we are sort of bidding against ourselves to a certain
extent if the size of these waiver requests are very large, in light of the additional
concerns.
Grady: Just some clarification. He has now come up with the $300,000 for the
meter setters, so he is about halfway there. This was the cost breakdown that
presented last time and now he is saying the meter setters, he can cover that.
So, the $650,000, he has met roughly half that so he is now asking around
$300,000 worth of fees to be waived.
Borton: Mr. President.
Wardle: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Is the meter setter -- my understanding that's a grant request that might
be fulfilled at a future date? But it is not a sure thing, right?
Tyree: Mr. President, Councilman Borton, yes that is correct. It is something
that we are working on, is not something that we are guaranteed at this time.
Under the current program, we could conceivably continue to move forward that
the water is being billed at its current usage rate at current rates. There will be a
motivation from the homeowners to continue to push forward for funding
mechanism because as our process would work forward each homeowner would
be billed one (inaudible) of the total water bill, so there will be -- actually it would
be split out per subdivision, but essentially you get my point. So, it would be a
motivation for those to continue to find some source to upgrade the Meridian
Heights systems to get into the water meters and the water meter setters and to
address your first concern as far as the timing of this issue, I do stand before you
with the support of the Board for the Meridian Heights Water and Sewer
Association and we do feel that this is something that is in the best interest of the
homeowners and so we are ready to move forward with taking this to our
homeowners. We have had public meetings with the homeowners to express
these concerns and because we are working on a process to try and get - we
are a nonprofit organization and we would be selling essentially or substantially
all of our assets, which under the Idaho Code would require all homeowners to
agree to this. We wanted to know before going to the homeowners that we had a
general outline and a contract that I can get to the - that I essentially come to
both sides. I have been working with legal counsel and with your Planning
Department to try and put something together that we think will work from both
your Board and my Board as well. The other component is once I have approval
from my homeowners based on the Idaho law and my meeting notices I must
have a contract that is what would be approved -
(tape turned over)
Tyree: -- something that I have to go back to the Board and I don't mean to
make this more difficult or to pressure you. I hope you understand that. My point
is that I think that if we get to a rough outline of where we think we both can
come to an agreement then it is time to move forward with both of our details
here. The other component of this is just time is of the essence given the water
quality issues.
Wardle: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Mr. Tyree I for one - unless you have - I know with your Association it is
majority, but if you don't have 100 percent sign on of all the homeowners, I am
not for it. One hundred percent, not one contesting it.
Tyree: Mr. President, Members of the Council I am sure you can appreciate that
I am not going to get 285 people to agree to a process. I will certainly give it my
best and we certainly believe that this is the best interest of everybody
concerned, but I don't think I can give you that standard.
Bird: That is where I am coming from, but the things that will tear up a
community more is this of what some perceive as forced annexation. This
Council never has or this city never has, nor will I ever vote for forced
annexation. So, this has got to be taken care of like a couple like Vienna Woods
and some of those out there. They have all got to sign onto this, in my book.
Tyree: If I may, Mr. President, Councilman Bird the component that I have is that
I must get the water quality issues resolved, otherwise DEQ is going to shut off
the water, so I must - I understand your concern as far getting everyone to
agree, but I must deal with the water quality issue. I must deal with the health
and welfare of these individuals.
Wardle: Len I have a question regarding the well development fee. You
mentioned that there is a pressurized irrigation system. Is there any opportunity
to - I understand the water quality is not - it doesn't meet the standard for
drinking water, is that correct? Is it available for any type of irrigation use? Is
that a possibility?
Grady: Mr. President as part of this deal we would be purchasing those water
rights, so effectively they would not be available.
Wardle: Council?
Borton: Mr. President my remarks to you are sort of the same in my concerns. I
understand Councilman Bird's concerns and desire to have everyone involved
and I would like to see the statistics of what you are talking about. There are
three homeowners that are unwilling or is it 57 homeowners unwilling and - I
mean, if you tell them that if you aren't willing to participate in this annexation you
run the risk of or in fact your water will be shut off and in discussion what their
response is - I am not sure what the homeowners argument is in light of the
concerns that I know you are stuck trying to address.
Tyree: Mr. President, Councilman Borton we don't have much in the streets right
now. We don't have people showing up to our meetings with protest signs or
even discussions. There are concerns out there. I will say that I am expecting
those types of concerns to come up with 285 people in a room; I think you must
see it. But, at this point in time, my hope is that if we can put forth a program we
believe we can have accepted from the city that those or at least the vast
majority of those people will see that this is what needs to happen because
otherwise the water is shut off and I or we are simply delaying the problem. Our
other solution here, our really only other viable solution to this problem is to drill
another well, which has some similar costs; it has some unknowns to it. Most
specifically whether we will obviously find quality water and then it also comes
with the unknown of will regulations change in the future? So, we believe that
there will always be people that say well we should know; we should know what
the water quality will be. Well, for some people you are never going to be able to
convince the economics of it or whether the unknowns are worthwhile. We are
hoping that the vast majority will see that while this may have some upfront
costs, in the long term we are guaranteed quality water for the citizens of our
subdivision on an ongoing basis. We also have an opportunity now if we can
make both of the systems work to get rid of the sewer lagoon ponds. The sewer
lagoon ponds right now have a buyer. We don't know that the sewer lagoon
ponds will have a buyer in the future and sooner or later we are going to need to
decommission those wells, which is a contingent liability in its own right.
Whether you can get people to understand all of those moving parts is anyone's
guess and that is my challenge in getting 285 people to understand the concept
of willi find new water? Willi meet future regulations and will I find a buyer in the
future for a sewer lagoon pond that will need to be decommissioned and then
how am I going to pay? Right now the developer is estimating approximately
$600,000 to $800,000 to decommission those ponds and then who is going to
pay for that? You just are going to have some people simply say I don't care. I
don't want to be annexed; I don't want to be part of the city. There are, I suspect,
going to be those holdouts - maybe a solution here if I can offer one is an idea
that yes this seems something that we can support but we would like to have
further input from the citizens, which I can fully respect. So, maybe we go
forward with a meeting that yes, Meridian Heights, this is where we think we can
reach an agreement. But, what we would like you to do is sit down and get input
from your Association members and come back to us and tell us if this is
something that you truly think we can do and at least at this point (inaudible--).
We are not at a point where anyone is willing to agree that this is what we are
going to do, but at least today we are going to give you directions that say we
think we can get this done if you come to us and say your homeowners are
behind you and Councilman Bird I certainly will give it my best to get every single
member to do that.
De Weerd: Mr. Chairman.
Wardle: Madame Mayor.
De Weerd: You know, I guess to raise the next question of the 800 pound gorilla
is that it is not just about water and sewer. It is not just about annexation. It is
brining Meridian Heights up to code if it were to come in and how have you been
talking to the homeowners about some of what those implications would be and
how that would impact them as well because we would ask that they came up to
a standard and I don't know if our staff has really done an analysis of what all
that would be. I do know that in talking to your landowners or your homeowners
that the taxes are different to a certain degree, but it is not significant like it is in
other parts of the Valley, which will go unnamed. I appreciate what Councilman
Bird says, but I do know that you have a crisis; we unfortunately as well have a
Commissioner that lives out there and it is one of the whole reasons that this
Council, our staff has been dead set against urban densities outside of a
municipal system because we get to inherit this and then we have to deal with it.
I guess it keeps attorneys like your self employed, but it really does provide a
challenge for everyone and I don't think this is easy for anyone. They are in a
predicament. We are contiguous and so we do have a responsibility. We have a
responsibility to the overall system and you know regardless of these two
particular things, the environmental issues out there (inaudible) does influence
the rest of us as well. So, I appreciate what you are doing. I do think there are
some larger issues as well that haven't been talked about in this context and I
think you probably are dealing with a pretty aggressive timeframe. How does all
that work with some of these unanswered questions?
Tyree: Mr. President, Madame Mayor the - we certainly are willing to work with
staff to correct those regulatory issues that we have throughout the subdivision to
the extent that we have them. I know we talked with Anna to get an assessment
of just what is out there that we would need to work on over time and we certainly
are willing to address those issues to the extent that we can and yes it is an 800
pound gorilla that has to be looked at and has to be dealt with. This is a problem
that has been thrust upon all of us. It has been a problem that has just been
waiting to happen and yes it is keeping me employed, but it is also keeping me
up at night in trying to figure out how I am going to resolve this with these people
and how we ultimately go about that is always a moving target given the
challenges that I face from a law standpoint in getting the approvals necessary
and trying to get a contract into place. The timing that I have from the
environmental - yes, it is an aggressive timeline, but I have got to stay
aggressive to it because we have got a health issue out there for our citizens that
must be addressed. So, I just keep trying to press forward as best I can. With
regard to any of the regulatory issues out there the best that I can say is we are
going to try to work with our homeowners to get that and if it means working
together as a community to help out our fellow neighbors, I think that is what has
to happen because it is going to be an element of everyone making concessions
in this regard because you have got one subdivision that is in a better position
than in another subdivision, either economically or just physically based on the
quality of their distribution system as well. But, it is all one problem and until we
can work together to resolve that problem, we will get nowhere. So, we are
going to have to find a way to get through that. The best that I can tell you
tonight is we will work with staff and Anna specifically to try and get that
assessment, find out what those issues are and start working forward on that. Is
it going to be easy? No. Meridian Heights does not have a homeowners
association so there is no regulatory body to do that, but hopefully together as a
community and with the support of the city I might be able to find some solutions.
De Weerd: Just a follow up, Mr. President.
Wardle: Madame Mayor.
De Weerd: You know, I guess, Councilman Bird this is different as they are
(inaudible) to us and we won't go out and force annex them, yet we will ask for
proof of you know the majority desire and those kinds of things. If Council so
chooses and wants to continue this forward I can ask that staff work with you on
showing tax differences and those kinds of things what it does and how it affects
their bottom line because that is what we are all interested in. However, else we
can utilize our staff resources to help answer some of those unknowns. My only
concern is it does not cause our existing tax payers at the expense of bringing
this in. I know that is a caution that staff has had that we do not want to pass
cost onto those that are currently in our system and impact them in a negative
way.
Wardle: Madame Mayor and Mr. Tyree I guess my specific comments would fall
along the lines of what the Mayor has talked about and that is that our rate
payers shouldn't be negatively impacted to take on this project. I do see it as a
potential benefit. We are taking out some sewer lagoon ponds, which I don't feel
are an open space or any sort of an amenity and we are offering that in this
entire proposal to bring that in under urban densities and to actually bring in
some housing stock into the city. So, I see that as a potential benefit for the
community in general. I guess the specific question this evening would be
related to the well fee and I would encourage staff to - again, based on the
discussion from the Council tonight not to negatively impact our rate payers, but
to find some sort of solution that would work. Council do I have any - it's kind of
all over the board. Is there any sort of consensus or -
Grady: Mr. President one final comment is perhaps a temporary solution and
especially with the water quality issues - would the Council be interested in
entertaining a temporary connection to where their wells would effectively stay on
line for fire flow, but their domestic usage would come from the City of Meridian?
I think that might buy them some time with DEQ, but the problem is that when
you get into those types of things, how do you get out? But if that is something
you want us to consider we will evaluate that also.
Borton: Mr. President.
Wardle: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I for one am not inclined at this point, unless you tell us to start that
process based as a six month window (inaudible--). At this point I wouldn't be
willing to even make that concession. I think everyone is better served with their
feet to the fire and try and come up with a solution.
Wardle: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Mr. President. I think I was pretty clear the last time we heard this
and though some of my thoughts have changed with respect to Len's question, I
am more now inclined to go with what Mr. Borton just said that you know once
the foot is in the door; we are not necessarily inclined to shut the door on the
foot. So, I think we need a solution before we start playing around the edges. I
agree with the Mayor in my comments previously that I don't think that Meridian
citizens should be impacted in anyway with respect to this request. I think it sets
a precedent that though the good Samaritan aspect is there these folks are in
trouble. We also get on the other side of the coin, folks saying growth has to pay
for itself. I think Meridian has done a pretty good job of addressing that with fees,
fee structure and (inaudible) fees and all sorts of things. In here we have a
situation where we have just scratched the surface of the cost with your $2.1
million. We don't know what the cost is, but I suspect it is easily doubled that if
not more. We are particularly concerned and I think the Mayor hit it is we are
concerned about this kind of density in a rural environment. This is an issue that
should have been taken care of 20 years ago. These folks have utilized their
resources up and never, never put money in the bank to take care of this pending
problem of the future and now the City of Meridian is being asked to come
forward and take this particular issue on. I hope it can come to resolve, but again
I don't want to see the tax payers of the City of Meridian to take this burden on.
So, I guess if the direction that you can get from that is the bottom lines ought to
be a zero across the board in terms of cost to the City of Meridian. The other
issue that is enlightening this evening that I didn't hear before is that the Meridian
Heights has no homeowners association; they are obviously members of the
Meridian Heights Water and Sewer Association. You have got some 285 homes.
A majority of those are in Meridian Heights - that is just homes that isn't folks
(inaudible). (Inaudible--) and the idea of being annexed into the City of Meridian
in order to be a (inaudible) for them, probably doesn't set well with them, but I
suspect when they have no drinking water and they can't get the stuff in the
house out the drain then maybe the sense will come home that there is an issue
here and that they have to form together and be a constructive working group to
solve their total problem and not just be in an association and God bless you, I
feel for you. That is a tough, tough spot, but you are just a small minority of the
opinion out there and the people that are raising their hand or vote yes or no on
this proposal - I guess from my perspective, I am willing to help and willing to
help in a constructive fair way that is fair to the same folks that have been coming
to Meridian for the last number of years wanting to be a part of our community
and taking their incremental share for capacity of the sewer plant, for capacity in
the water system and for capacity in the Police and Fire Department and those
sorts of things. That is my comments.
Canning: President Wardle.
Wardle: Anna.
Canning: I would just - your briefly reference perhaps taking a consensus vote -
this is an annexation or a future annexation application, so it seemed to me that
Mr. Tyree has gotten the full range of issues that he needs to move forward with
and that perhaps it is time to submit that application because it won't get to them
all until March if you met our next cutoff. So, if time is of the essence, perhaps
an annexation application would be in order.
Wardle: Thank you, Anna. Just to clarify my comments I was just looking for
consensus on direction, not any consensus on the behalf of the Council's action.
Mr. Tyree do you plenty of directions?
Tyree: No I don't. I stand before you farther away from a solution that I know
what to do. I have a problem here that I have to solve. I have a federal
regulatory agency that is telling me that I have to resolve this. I thought I had a
solution from the city, but I can't see that I can get 285 people who are
independent to agree without any cost to the city when I can't pay for it. I don't
know where I am going to go. So, at least at this time and I thought I had issues
that I could bring to the benefit of this association or to this city and by getting rid
of the sewer lagoon ponds, by allowing for annexation, by being the next
keystone to a number of future developments, but I am locked. I can't pay for a
well development fee, but I have got to resolve the water. I suppose that we are
just going to punt and put this out for another 20 years and see from there. I
don't know where else to go. I mean, if there is any other solution, I am-
De Weerd: Mr. President.
Wardle: Madame Mayor.
De Weerd: Have you not talked about an LID?
Tyree: We have as far as improvement districts, as far funding sources we have
searched into an LID - as far as funding of that, we looked into - I am sorry we
looked into an LID as a potential funding source for the meters and the water
meter setters. DEQ offers an easier and lower transactional cost and in our
preliminary analysis we show that based on the rates that we could get from
DEQ that it would be a cheaper source of funds than going through an LID,
considering the risk that the LID failed on that process. So, trying to move
forward with that as a funding source, so yes, we have done the analysis on LID
(inaudible) component as to our existing fees, which as Len pointed out here
what I perceived as our current value problems at finding a way to get billing for
Meridian Heights.
De Weerd: So, how far apart are you? I think you can appreciate as well as the
homeowners that support this, appreciate that the city cannot pass a cost onto
our existing residents. I could not sell them what the public benefit would be.
Now, I can sell your residents what their benefit will be in doing this, but not in
passing along a cost to our current rate payers. They already getting waived in
impact fee everyone else who gets added into the city pays because they are an
existing home. You can't do that, but outside of that, I just question where they
would think the city - we see the benefit, I see the benefit environmentally in
getting that cleaned up, certainly, but not at the cost of those that are currently in
our system.
Tyree: Mr. President, Madame Mayor I can certainly appreciate that and I think
both of us can truly see the benefits from a 48,000 foot level, but when I get to
the homeowner level and the benefits and a concept of having to pay for a
service in their mind to be taxed more that is why I have that difficulty. If we can
try and sell this to them, I would love to be able to do it because I would just love
to find a resolution to this. But, how I can get that sold at the property owner
level is my biggest challenge.
De Weerd: I guess it is when they don't have water and that is unfortunate.
Tyree: It is and I think my - the way that I am going to get past that is we are
going to have to drill another well and leave ourselves out for some other time.
The expense of drilling a new well and connecting to the city are close enough
now, but when we start compounding the issue, I don't know that I can sell those
benefits to the individual homeowner.
Grady: Mr. President, just a final comment. My understanding of your direction
should Mr. Tyree wish to continue pursuing, you asked me to see what I can do
about funding of those well development fees and then take a look at what is
required to get this into code and from what I gather, if those two things are taken
care of, we probably are close?
Wardle: Len I believe that if that placates the issue of impact to the rate payers, I
think if those are the impacts and those are taken care of then - I believe that is
what I heard. Council, tell me if it is something different?
Bird: That is fine with me.
Wardle: Mr. Tyree thank you very much for your time.
Tyree: Thank you very much. I appreciate your time. It is a difficult situation. I
appreciate your time.
Bird: We are not cold hearted.
Item 5.
Update of New City Hall Building by LCA Architects and Petra:
Wardle: I would like to invite our architect, Steve Simmons and Construction
Manager, Wes Bettis to lead us through this discussion.
Simmons: We are going to gang up on you.
Wardle: I see a portion of that is blocked out. Is that for effect here?
Simmons: Yes.
De Weerd: If the public would like to shift, it seems like the only way we can offer
you a view is if you take the front row seat. The best seat in the house.
Simmons: Mr. President how are we on time? I know you have other items.
Wardle: You have about six minutes on my schedule, Steve.
De Weerd: But, I will let you lead into mine.
Simmons: Okay, thank you. Mr. President, Madame Mayor and Members of the
Council, Steve Simmons with LCA Architects, 1221 Shoreline Lane, Boise, ID.
All I would like to do is address you as to what we have been up to and where we
are headed on the design aspects of the new City Hall project and Wes Bettis of
Petra can talk about specifics of budgets schedules and some of the other
construction activities that have been happening directly behind at the south.
Since our last update, we spent a lot of time meeting with the various
departments and we have met with every department short of you four or five
individuals as to where you might land. We do kind of have a place for you. I
have the floor plans here. I can walk you through where those departments are
going to be at this point. We will spend a lot more time as we go through the
tenant improvement drawings with those departments and going into more detail
with them on how they are going to be laid out, but roughly we have everybody
located, growth space identified and some other things that we will walk through.
We also have looked at, at the request of a couple of individuals, we are looking
at some alternative elevations concept that I want to show you - incorporating
some of the brick into the stone that we had talked about at one of work sessions
earlier on with the Department Heads. That is what is covered up. We will show
that as well. Quickly on the site, just as an update of course this is turned at 90
degrees, so you can see it a little bit better on a title block. The concept that we
had earlier, it is pretty much following - this is just a development concept of our
landscape architects, you can see this - delineating a little bit better some of the
brick patterns and pavements that would be in this closet area - same concept
with the water features that would come through from the stream flow into our
pond, we now have water features on either side flanking - as opposed to - we
used to have one right in the middle, we put them either side for the reason that
we felt that this presented the building much better to the public to be able to
come up, step up the steps or come around the ramps behind these fountains
and we could see those having a really nice presence with irrigation and other
features going on through into these fountains and then a (inaudible) medallion
that could be designed as a piece of art that could set in that plaza space as you
go up - it could be bronze or brass could be sitting in there as you walk up the
steps of the building. So, it really flanks this entrance very nicely. It also still
looks directly across to the east, east being down to our Heritage Pavilion and a
trellis structure that would be delineated then from the salvage materials that we
would have and hopefully can bring in from the demolition project. Water still
goes down to the garden - the flowered gardens that are being shown here,
these are delineated as tulips or something of that nature. I kill everything that I
grow, so they would have to be plastic. But nonetheless, the water feature
comes through here - so the water feature comes through these series of
cauldrons much like our irrigation system. You know that whole concept came
from way back when so I won't bore you with all of that, but there again this is
starting to be further delineated, the working drawing is behind that and I won't
bore you with that. The intended is to be able to put budgets together and give
Wes some input on the site development cost of this. We have met with these
folks and some of these are starting to identify as alternates. We feel that is
prudent for us to look at alternates that can be identified that for instance, the
Heritage Pavilion or some of these plazas or whether this has to be lawn. In any
event, it will be designed to the max and we are also going to identify it for Wes
so that during the bid process if we had to and we have a budget issue or
something would happen, we would be able to look at some of those things
coming at a future date, funding raising or whatever might be happening. That is
where we are at on the site. Any questions regarding that? Let's talk about the
building exterior. These were the original concepts that you have seen and they
are both behind there. If you would like I could uncover that, but there again we
just had - this is the stone - this is an aristocrat product, but basically it is a cast
stone, very, very heavy. This is the size of that stone that would be in the center
part of that building and at the base of the buildings of the flanking wings. It is
modular, so it is a 12 x 2 foot stone. It also allows us to have reveal edges,
double edges at the - you know enhanced, so this drawing unlike our engineered
drawing you don't see all the stacked (inaudible) in here, but it is enhanced with
these joints here so it had that look. This of course being - the rose colored
park, kind of a brick that we had looked at originally would be the rest of the
building, with that same stone -- we can turn all of these in if you like. Basically,
we had the stone, which was the more progressive - you know we had gone
through that kind of progressive look, the more historic look that tied into the
historic downtown and the plan along with the awnings. That is the pallet for that.
What we recently had looked at and was asked to investigate was perhaps
carrying some of the brick elements through this piece, although it was a little bit
different than we originally had envisioned, we have done that and will show that
to you - I don't know if you can see that - what this shows is basically the same
products, it is a little different with marker colors because this was a scanned
image, but you start to see how that stone actually stacks up, the awnings
brought down to the human scale - we got this down along the sidewalk level
here. Everything else is basically the same. We through a little bit of a green tint
glass wares verses the blue to try something different. We like the green. These
you see beyond are the actual mechanical units - the center of the building way
back, so you really don't perceive them this way. We did a site line in our
computer and you have to be 120 feet away from the building to the east before
you even see the top of these units in reality. But, that is what they look like if
you are looking at an elevation straight on, but we don't really perceive a building
that way. These are inset brick medallions that would placed into this cast stone
matching the brick here. So this shows you a brick, a double soldier course that
is coming across to kind of tie that in as an alternate to that. We were asked to
investigate that, so we kind of came up with that and we kind of like it. That is
the one thing that we need some direction on. So, if I have a few minutes I can
show you the floor plans, if you like.
Wardle: Steve, just while you are up there can you tell me the difference
between the molding - is that a change that you made on purpose or is it just --?
Simmons: Oh, on this?
Wardle: Yes, the accent pieces - the caps of the-
Simmons: Yeah, this is still cast, this hasn't changed. This was a hand drawing.
These are actually in the computer now and they are module out and they are
figured out so they can be built. So, that is why you are seeing - you see really
the small lines, those are truly bricks so it is a little bit less artistic because this
was done freehand. That is an engineered drawing that we have colored up so
that is what you see is all the modules and the materials in there to make sure
they actually module out and they all work and line up at the floor levels.
Bird: Mr. President.
Wardle: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Steve, how do they set the block? You say it is 2 x 12?
Simmons: It is a 12 x -
Bird: Twelve inch by twelve foot?
Simmons: No, twelve inch by twelve -
Bird: Twelve by twenty-four?
Simmons: Yes, sir.
Bird: And you set it on a wall?
Simmons: This is the same product, assuming we can afford this product - this
is the same that you will see on Ada County Courthouse has this allover. There
are several buildings around that have this material.
Bird: Oh, this is what is on Ada County? That is nice. A follow up on that.
When you did your new drawings, I was one that I kind of wanted to see the brick
come across that just below the top windows - a row of brick there, right there,
yeah. Isn't that what we had talked about Mayor?
(Inaudible discussion)
De Weerd: Yeah, this really does Keith.
Simmons: There is a subtle difference there. You see the light colored accent
brick on the center piece, here? See that middle strike there, if you will, is
missing on that one? We think it actually gives it a little more verticality to that, a
little less squatty if you will.
Bird: And you think the green glass is going to go better with our color scheme
than blue?
Simmons: We do. We could live with either one, but we prefer the green.
Bird: They are both, what, twenties?
Simmons: They are both very nice. Yeah, we wouldn't have an issue either way.
It will take on somewhat of a blue tint because of the sky.
Bird: I would recommend to anybody that would want to look at the difference -
down next to the (inaudible) Club, the one to the west between their office and
the (inaudible) Club is green glass, the first one put up to the farthest one on
River is blue. Go take a look and see which one you would like the best.
(Inaudible discussion)
Bird: No, they are not clear framed.
(Inaudible discussion)
Simmons: This is the construction drawings and we have gone through -
actually we got the preliminary tenant improvement plans laid in. We have got
this opened up that we can pull off now and we work with Wes to come up with a
definition where our shell package should be, so we are marching - we have two
crews now working on that. This is a composite plan showing the basement
level, if you will. As you come down you have a series of storage, fenced areas
for the departments to have excess storage - they need them in the basement.
The Clerk's storage would be here and most of our utilities are coming off of
Meridian Road and so that is what this area is in the corner when our freight
elevator would come down. Down below would be the staff restrooms or locker
rooms, but those are down in the basement. The rest of this is unassigned for
future storage and growth. Let's go through this real fast. The main level of the
building - as you come in right off of the lobby, flanking on either side will be
those fountains and would be the grand space of the lobby with a balcony above.
The Council Chambers are directly in the center. We have those delineated a
little bit better. We have been working closely with Will and the Mayor on how to
lay those out. We still have work to be done, but we are still proceeding with
that. Our next charge is to get some furniture picked for that and be able to show
you folks some of that as well. So, this is a work in progress. The Clerk's
Department, City Administration would be here. Building support as it would
come in off of the dock and the mailroom and all would be in this area - Public
Works - and what you are seeing now is we laid these spaces out for the
ultimate growth in the 20 year plan. So you are seeing cubicles and things that
really wouldn't be there, initially, but we are showing you where those would all
be. The same with Finance, it would be on this end of the building. As you come
in the door, for the community there is a large multi-purpose room is dividable
and some storage closets and little counters there that would inset for drinks and
those things so they could have after hour meetings and other things - what we
use in addition to Chambers overflow - we have cameras and things and they
could look at some of those things. Then we have some other unassigned
space. The Historical Society, right now, we have kind of landed here. We need
to meet with those people and Will has talked with them, so we will sit down and
go through that in a little more detail of what their needs are.
De Weerd: How big is that, Steve?
Simmons: This space is, I want to say, about 1,400 feet or so.
De Weerd: For the history center?
Simmons: Yes.
De Weerd: Oh, that is great.
Simmons: Their program is like 1,200 and I talked to her and I put some
numbers in.
Bird: Steve, have you got a counter there where all the bills can be paid and
stuff. Talking with Stacy and stuff and I know that maybe it is just her and I, but I
feel we need to have a place on that first floor where you can come in and pay
your parks, your building permits and everything else. With the high tech that we
have got now or will have, you should be able to do that and people shouldn't
have to run around three stories of building to pay their city fees or - you are
going to have your MUBS there anyway - I would like to see that designed. I
can't speak for the other Council and Mayor.
Simmons: Mr. Chairman and Councilman Bird there has been a lot of discussion
with the Department Heads meeting and we don't have a real resolution yet as to
where that could land, but there is discussion. You know it is a complicated
issue which we have talked about, but we are open to that, but we do have some
time to adjust for that if that happens. Quickly, on the second floor as you come
in and upstairs in the elevator, we have increased this lobby space for the public.
We will have display areas and art and some other things and gathering spaces
- Parks and Recreation on one side and Fire Admin on the other side. This
allows them a quick escape to the south through a parking lot if they have to be
somewhere in an emergency.
De Weerd: The pole is just the climb out of the window.
Bird: That is what I was going to say. Just put a pole outside one of the windows
and Anderson can slide down it.
Simmons: The space adjacent to him is unassigned and then we have some
other unassigned space here with an employee break room is here. So, we have
development corporation could land here, we have blocked them out a bit of
space and if that all works out, fine. Planning is at this end. The second part of
Public Works is on the upper floor, the admin piece of that. The third level is a
human resources - there again, what we did - this is a good comment that came
out of our Director's meeting last week. As we opened this whole area - this is
the center of the building if you will with a large clear story and the skylights are
happening, it is about 30 feet in the air there - which happens over this bay and
this bay in the Mayor's wing. So, we have opened this up for public display and
use. So, you could have historical information. You know, Christmas wreathes
or whatever you want to display up in this area, which would be a great space for
the public to be able to utilize and this is an unassigned space, it can be used for
other things, you can put a door in there and then as you grow you can certainly
encapsulate this space for other department use, but right now it would be a very
nice space to be able to be in. IT and the server and we try to keep them off of
this end that doesn't need to be moved again. The City Attorney, Human
Resources is on the far north side. The Mayor and your offices or any cubicles
or wherever you might desire will land down in this end, looking towards the
northeast that way.
(Inaudible discussion)
Simmons: (Inaudible--) units are just to see how far we are from the front of the
building. That has been a struggle. We have been fighting that to try and keep
those down and try and get enough shaft space through the building. So, there
has been a lot of work done on that up to this point.
Bird: Push or pull?
Simmons: Pardon me?
Bird: Push or pull?
Simmons: Oh, excuse me. Mr. Chairman, Councilman Bird these are all
hydraulic elevators. So, they are all push. They are not higher enough to
warrant pull - the cost of those. With that I think I will let Wes give a quick
update on where we are at schedule wise and I would answer questions.
Wardle: Thank you, Steve. Wes?
Bettis: Mr. President, Madame Mayor, Council Members I am Construction
Manager, Petra, Inc., 96 W. Black Eagle in Boise. Currently, we are making
great progress on the demolition. On the abatement the contractor has been
very quick on his feet to react to the changes in the weather and just has
scheduled accordingly. He spoke with me yesterday and indicated he plans on
having the Creamery Building completely down by this Saturday. What will be
left is the boiler building, which has been updated and has received its "all clear"
yesterday as well. So, they will be moving right into the boiler building and the
abatement has started on the tower and with that the demolition of the tower will
begin as well. So, he is making great progress. Ideal Demolition wants to be
completed before Christmas so that he can give his employees some time with
their families to enjoy the holidays. So, good progress all the way around there.
We did have a visit from EPA today noting some concerns over air shed quality
with dust and the contractor has reacted very quickly and will have a water truck
on site to make sure that there is adequate dust suppression. As far as the
schedule goes for the design, Steve is driving his troops forward hard and
sometimes too hard according to some of the consultants. They are still on line
to have the shell and core design completed by the 13th of February leading to
submittal for permit by the 19th of February. Bid packages are being prepared in
that period from the 19th to the 23rd and having the packages out to bid the first of
March with the bids due right at -
(Tape turned over)
Bettis: -- to the bid packages by addendum so that we can avoid any change
orders once or minimize change orders once the bids have been awarded and
the packages are under construction for the shell and core. That will follow with
the TI design again tracking right along those bid packages will be out the 1 st of
April and the permit in place no later than April 30th with the TI work bid being
due the 14th of May, so there will be just a little over a month lag between the
time that the shell and core work starts and the TI work is bid out. So, we will
have plenty of time to make the necessary adjustments should we need to and
work with the coordination involved with the subcontractors. We are starting to
get some of the preliminary bids in place, some budgets from the consultants, for
instance, the plaza and landscaping is about $1,050,000 as estimated by the
consultant for a total site development package of about $1.33 million. The
electrical budget as established by the electrical engineers is $2.42 million or
about $30.25 per square foot. I have completed my preliminary takeoff of
building and some of the interior takeoff as well, which had changed as of tonight
when I saw the latest revisions. We will be starting on the budgeting of the major
components of the building as we move forward contingent upon some of the
additional information coming from the consultants as they complete their design.
So, that is where we are at. Are there any questions?
Wardle: Thank you, Wes.
De Weerd: Mr. President.
Wardle: Madame Mayor.
De Weerd: I guess, also just a note to Council we did look at designing it to have
an emergency command center (inaudible) called something like that. Yeah, an
operations center. It did require a structural reinforcement that would have
added time (inaudible) to the building. We do have that earthquake structure in
place at the Police Department and we do have a couple of other options that we
will consider and pursue instead of designing an entire building to those
standards. I think we can find better economies in either a current facility or a
future add on to our Police Department or something like that. Something else
that we have discussed as well is LEED Certification. I know that Council had
wanted this to be energy efficient and that sort of thing. Association of Idaho
Cities has asked us if we could pursue that more aggressively. I think you can
do something concurrent, but we don't want it to, again, delay any of the
progress that is being made and from what I understand you can catch up in the
design having a consultant start tracking it. So, those are two pieces you may
want to have some discussion on or not.
Wardle: Thank you, Madame Mayor. Council, discussion on - I would agree
with the additional operations center that it probably makes more sense to
incorporate that into another building as opposed to delaying the design and
construction on this one. Thought?
Borton: I agree.
Rountree: Mr. President I agree and I think Steve also has some direction on the
brick work on the front of the building and my vote goes for the new redesign. I
don't know about everybody else.
Bird: I would second that.
De Weerd: My vote too.
Wardle: We will make that unanimous. I vote with the blue glass.
Bird: Somebody has got to break that because I am with you Shaun.
Simmons: This is a democratic process; I want a show of hands.
Bird: How many of you guys want blue?
Wardle: So, that will continue to be a point of discussion, I guess for-
Bird: Well, we will get some samples made up, get somebody to make up a
couple of windows and get Russ to make up a couple - blue glass and some with
the green glass.
De Weerd: If we could take pictures of existing buildings.
Bird: I can't think of any that has got the clear (inaudible) and that makes a
difference. They can make samples that make it look just like it.
Simmons: Mr. Chairman, Madame Mayor this is the green, so you see the level
of green. It is hard to render the transparency of this green. Same with the blue.
I have a small sample of the blue. What we can do is get a larger sample of the
blue and bring that to you as well.
De Weerd: And then put it next to this white and brick.
Simmons: Yes, definitely and you will see there is a difference between the
green and that and the blue and that material. If I might answer quickly your
question regarding a LEED Certification? I did contact the same team who did
that for Dave (last name?) at Ada County Courthouse, an independent team to
get a feel for number one for schedule and for budget to do that. They also
performed the commissioning and the prerequisite for the commissioning, but
that is required for LEED Certification and that group of engineers would assist
our engineers beyond what they would normally do as design engineers to
commission the building and make sure all the systems are running properly and
educate the people and whatnot. It is a very long extensive list of what they do
and I was asked also to look at a budget for that. To do all of that and they could
do both. They could do the LEED Certification as well as the commissioning, you
know to budget about a dollar a foot, which is roughly about $80,000 in fees for
that.
Bird: Is that all?
Simmons: That is it.
Bird: No kidding that is cheap.
Simmons: And that is for me excluding the basement because I didn't see a
whole lot of need for that, but nonetheless to give you a ballpark number so you
can chew on that and they would be able to start immediately depending on how
we want to procure their services and you could certainly talk with Mr. (inaudible)
to see how they did on his facilities. I would certainly do that myself as well and I
would certainly encourage you and there again he is the Facilities Manager at
Ada County, so we had a chat with Dave about that and I think they did him a
great job. But, they could do both as well track everything and assist us and they
could catch up and it could be done after - as a matter of fact the Ada County
Courthouse, which we did that process and that separate team did that after we
designed it was done several years after the fact.
De Weerd: Mr. President.
Wardle: Madame Mayor.
De Weerd: I guess I would ask Ted to bring this to our team next Monday and
suggest process or procedure so that we can do it as concurrent as possible.
There is no reason to - because it might even help in the overall design.
Wardle: Steve, with the LEED Certification - we are not taking the systems to
the extent that we are looking at a grey water system or any of that sort of - or
are we?
Simmons: Mr. Chairman we are looking at exactly that - every time we capture
those we have instructed the consultants to do that. Obviously, the more you
start looking at those things, the more design time it takes them. We are kind of
a fast track project here, but another team could assist us, but we have had them
looking at different opportunities to do grey water capture and use that for other
things similar to what Mr. Christianson had done at the Banner Bank that we
went through. So, we are investigating those as best we can in the time that we
have, which would require and these drawings don't show some of the storage
tanks and things in the basement and those things. So, that is one reason Mike
Wisdom is working on those numbers for us.
Wardle: Thank you and I would certainly encourage you to bring those numbers
back to the Committee and Council I think that the number we just heard I would
be supportive of.
Bird: Mr. President, I am with you. I think Wes and Ted and Steve can get
together and let's keep going on it.
De Weerd: Mr. President, oh I am sorry, Keith go ahead.
Bird: Mr. President, I just want to say to West that the way you have responded
to everything and your people over there has been very appreciated because any
demolition that you have you have problems and those guys have went above
and beyond and have done it in quick and fast time and I think it has been
because of your leadership and I certainly appreciate it.
Bettis: Mr. President, Councilman Bird thank you very much. We appreciate
that. It has been a very good team. They have been very responsive, concerned
about safety not only for their employees, but for the general public as well. So,
we have been very pleased with their response.
De Weerd: Mr. President.
Wardle: Madame Mayor.
De Weerd: I would echo those sentiments. It has been a real pleasure seeing
how they keep their sight as well. I guess I have never seen a demolition project,
but they have been great neighbors and I know that the surrounding neighbors
have appreciated it as well. I just have one statement for Steve and I am sure he
was expecting it when I heard the timeframe on these things and that is we hope
you are like Ideal in that you beat it by three weeks. So, that would be worse
case scenario schedule.
Simmons: Mr. Chairman, Madame Mayor may I respond to that? I think as we
all witnessed during the demolition at the groundbreaking, it is easier to tear
things down than to put them back up.
Bird: Well, don't fall one day behind that schedule.
Simmons: No, we are not we are trying to expedite this because we understand
that time is money. We certainly are and we want to do it right, though, too. We
are going fast, we are going breakneck speed and there will be some catch up,
no doubt but we are going as fast as we can and Wes is assisting us in
identifying those packages and trying to get them just as thin as we can so we
can get them out the door is what we would normally do, but we are working very
closely with that. Quickly, are there any of these that you would like to have?
Certainly you are welcome to the whole package or if you like the floor plans to
keep them here to look at them a little more detailed. You are welcome to any of
this.
Wardle: Steve, if you wouldn't mind and certainly for the purposes of this
evening and anyone who would like to review them and maybe place them in the
hallway to the right so that anyone can have an opportunity to look at them.
Then the City Clerk's Office could house those for any further review.
De Weerd: Mr. President.
Wardle: Madame Mayor.
De Weerd: Steve, as well if we could get those in regular size so they can take a
little bit of time and look at it.
Simmons: I will have them to Will tomorrow.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Wardle: All right, Council that ends Item No.5. We have an additional item and
we would like to move that to the regular agenda?
Bird: So moved.
Rountree: Second.
Wardle: With that it brings us to end of our Pre-Council meeting. I would like to
thank the public and apologize for the delay and we will be onto the regular
agenda in just a moment. I would entertain a motion to adjourn.
Rountree: So moved.
Bird: Second.
Wardle: It has been moved and seconded to adjourn. All in favor.
ALL AYES. MOTION CARRIED.
Item 6.
Executive Session per Idaho State Code 67~2345(1)(a} - (to
consider hiring a public officer, employee, staff member or
individual agent, not to include. This paragraph does not apply to
filling a vacancy in an elective office) & (f) - (to consider and advise
its legal representatives in pending litigation):
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 7:23 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
APPROVED:
TAMMY D
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EERD, MAY,Q~1i1 DATE APPROVED
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