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Home My WebLink About2000 08-22 Roll-Call : 1. 2. 3. ~.~ //'. \, MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL AGENDA August 22, 2000 @ 6:30 P.M. CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS X Tammy deWeerd X Cherie McCandless Ron Anderson X Keith Bird X Mayor Robert Corrie Reaular Aaenda Continued Public Hearing: AZ 00-006 Request for annexation and zoning of 12.73 acres from RT to l-Q and R-15 zones by Vicki Welker I Gold River Companies, Inc., for proposed Valeri Heights Subdivision at the northeast corner of W. Pine Avenue and N. Ten Mile Road: Continued Public Hearing: PP 00-005 Request for preliminary Plat approval for proposed Valeri Heights Subdivision with 1 0 building lots and 2 other lots on 12. 73 acres in proposed L-Q and R-15 zones by Vicki Welker I Gold River Companies, Inc., at the northeast corner of W. Pine Avenue and N. Ten Mile Road: Continued Public Hearing: CUP 00-014 Request for Conditional Use Permit for proposed Valeri Heights Subdivision for a 128- unit apartment complex, townhouses and offices on 12.73 acres in proposed L-Q and R-15 zones by Vicki Welker I Gold River Companies, Inc., at the northeast corner of W. Pine Avenue and N. Ten Mile Road: August 22, 2000 Meridian City Council Agenda Page 1 Materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the Meridian City Council. Roll-Call: 1. 2. 3. MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL AGENDA August 22, 2000 @ 6:30 P.M. CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS X Tammy deWeerd ~ Cherie McCandless U Ron And son Keith Bi rd Mayor Robert Corrie Reaular Aaenda Continued Public Hearing: AZ 00-006 Request for annexation and zoning of 12.73 acres from RT to L-Q and R-15 zones by Vicki Welker I Gold River Companies, Inc., for proposed Valeri Heights Subdivision at the northeast corner of W. Pine Avenue and N. Ten Mile Road: (UYvft v\ ~ p~ 4-v q I q l DlJ Continued Public Hearing: PP 00-005 Request for preliminary Plat approval for proposed Valeri Heights Subdivision with 1 0 building lots and 2 other lots on 12. 73 acres in proposed L-Q and R-15 zones by Vicki Welker I Gold River Companies, Inc., at the northeast corner of W. Pine Avenue and,N. Ten Mile Road: L~~ r{ w -to e) 4 lOb Continued Public Hearing: CUP 00-014 Request for Conditional Use Permit for proposed Valeri Heights Subdivision for a 128- unit apartment complex, townhouses and offices on 12. 73 acres in proposed L-Q and R-15 zones by Vicki Welker I Gold River Companies, Inc., at the northeast corner of W. Pine Avenue and N. Ten Mile Road: LvvJ-\~ P1 H -fD q l &i } tJ-o .~ August 22, 2000 Meridian City Council Agenda Page 1 Materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the Meridian City Councjl~ Meridian City Council Meetina Auaust 22.2000 The Special City Council meeting was called to order at 6:45 p.m. on Tuesday, August 22, 2000, by Mayor Robert D. Corrie. Members Present: Robert Corrie, Keith Bird, Tammy deWeerd, Cherie McCandless. Members Absent: Ron Anderson Others Present: Bill Nichols, Shari Stiles, Gary Smith, Bill Gordon, Will Berg. Corrie: All right. Can everybody here me in the back? We'll open the Meridian City Council Special Meeting at 6:45 in which we will here the public hearing testimony on annexation and zoning on Valeri Heights, preliminary plat approval for Valeri Heights, and also a conditional use permit for Valeri Heights. As you noticed, when I talked to the group last meeting, we said that we wanted to have all four Council People here in attendance to make that decision. We decided that the 2200 of this month would be everyone would be in town. Mr. Anderson was not at that meeting and he told us that he had another meeting scheduled for tonight and that he would not be able to attend this meeting. So, consequently, I am going to have the City Attorney give the Council direction of what they can and cannot do. They will make that decision here tonight. They have three decisions they can make. At this point, I will turn this over to Mr. Bill Nichols, and he will explain to the Council what the options are tonight and then they will make that decision. Mr. Nichols. Nichols: Thank you, Mr. Mayor and Members of the Council. With regard to this particular application, you will recall that this is before the Council on a motion to reconsider the prior decision of the Council and as a result of that motion, to reconsider, a new public hearing was scheduled. The options before the Council are this: one option you have is to hold the public hearing this evening, and if you choose, after the conclusion of the public hearing, you can make your decision tonight. Option two is to continue the public hearing to a date certain in the future. Option three is to open the public hearing, receive testimony from interested individuals, then continue the public hearing to a date certain for additional testimony and at that meeting, presumably the four Council Members would be present. In the meantime, Councilman Anderson, who is absent, could review the record, including the transcript of the minutes of the hearing and any information, written material, at cetera that is received so that he has all of the information that is in the record prior to the meeting to which the matter is continued. You essentially have those three options. Hear it now, continue it to a date certain, or hear most of it now and continue the hearing on part of it, essentially the remainder issues, to a date certain. ( Meridian City Council Meeting -- August 22, 2000 Page 2 Corrie: Thank you Mr. Nichols. Is there any discussion from Council on this right now? Bird: Having talked to Mr. Anderson, he felt that we should go ahead and make our decision tonight and quit dragging this on. This thing's been going on for well over a year and I think we need to make the decision tonight. That's my personal opinion. Hear the testimony and make the decision. Corrie: Any other discussion? As for the public record, I do too. Okay, with that being the case, then any objections from any of the other two Council people to open the public hearing and to make the decision for the Council to (inaudible)? Nichols: Point of order, Mayor. Mr. Berg, has there been a roll call? Corrie: We haven't called the roll yet. McCandless: Mr. Mayor, didn't we -- isn't this a continuation of the public hearing? We've already opened it, have we not? Corrie: That's correct. It will be the continuation. Any other questions? Mr. Nichols. Nichols: Mr. Mayor, members of the Council, I think it appropriate at the beginning of this continuation of the public hearing for each of the Council people present and the Mayor to disclose any ex-parte contacts that they have had with any individual pertaining to this application that discussion by the Council members and the Mayor should indicate with whom the contact was made and what the substance was of that contact. If there were written materials received, those can be placed in the record. Corrie: I have roll-call vote of those members present, please. Let the record show that three are here and one absent. deWeerd: Mr. Mayor, since all of this came up after some of my contacts, I can't tell you what dates or what time and sometimes even the names of who was there. The applicant, shortly after this was originally looked at on May 16th, called Mr. Anderson and asked to meet with him to discuss what the concerns were on this application. Since our Council President, Mr. Bird, was not available, they asked me to sit in and be a second party to this. We met with Vicki Welker, and I believe Scott Harrison, and I believe there was a third person there who wanted to hear what Councilman Anderson's concerns were. Council member Anderson shared his concerns, his primary concern was the lack of meeting with the neighbors, and, therefore, I believe the applicants followed up on that which we are hoping to hear. I believe they held a number of neighborhood meetings. I've had other conversations. There's a gentleman named Forrest-something, and I'm sorry I forgot your last night, but he called me ( Meridian City Council Meeting '. August 22, 2000 Page 3 on the Comprehensive Plan, and he mentioned it and we did not speak anything specifically. As well as the property owner, Mr. Fuller, also called me on another matter and had a real general conversation, didn't talk about any specifics of the application. So that's the best that I can do. Bird: Mr. Mayor, I have had two conversations over the phone with Mrs. Welker. On May 17th she called me at my office and asked me basically how to get hold of Councilman Anderson. I gave her his number, and I believe a week later she called asked for me to come to a meeting with him, and I was already tied up. I have received letters, I think some of these are public. I've got a letter from Joint School District No.2 approving the request and I don't know how I got a hold of two Mrs. Calhoun, two of hers, but they are dated June 1 0, 2000. I ~ot one from July 12th for Jacqueline and Gordon Cooper; one from June 5 from Irma Atkinson and Laura Wilder, got two of them; one from dated July 18th from Vicki Welker and Jeffrey Struther; and I believe I had one from the owners of the property but I cannot find that. deWeerd: Additional letters would be one from Mike Ward received on August 3rd; David and Erma and Jessica Atkinson dated August 11 th; a letter dated August 3rd from a number of people. Do I need to read the signjatures on here? If I ruin anyone's name, please forgive me ahead of time here. Tony and Tracy Gardner, Steve Bravo, Steve Elliot, Lane Saxton, Kevin Kenny, Cheryl Lamonyon, Shannon Duncanson, Gary Lamonyon, Kelly Elliot, Brenda Saxton, Judy Kenny, Pamela Lansky, Julie Me-something, Darren McNutt, Tom and Randy something.. We have another petition-type letter as well. Did you say Jan Huskey? Jan Husky and Robert Dennis on July 16th. Another letter from it looks like maybe the same people. Bird: Mr. Mayor, I've also got a letter from Becky and David Carmac dated July 17,2000. McCandless: Mr. Mayor, I had originally voted against this project. I received two calls from Vicki Welker the day atter the meeting asking me to meet with them. We talked for several minutes each time. I declined at that time to have a meeting with them because even though they changed the - if they changed the project, I didn't see how that was going to fix my particular concerns which were the roads. I, too, have gotten quite a few letters, some pro and some con. I've gotten letters, and I have talked to Mrs. Cooper on the phone also and had letters from the Coopers, Atkinsons, Carmacs and other letters that, quite frankly, I do not have the names of the people who wrote them with me here with me tonight. Corrie: Quite obvious, I'm not going to vote tonight, but I did get - after the last vote, Mrs. Welker did come to my office and was wondering why I voted no. I explained again why I did. I had Mrs. Atkinson come in and explain her situation, what she thought why she was against it, and also Mr. Blazer came into my office and did the same thing. Thatls pretty much about what I was involved with. (" . Meridian City Council Meeting ... August 22, 2000 Page 4 Anything after that, nothing that I had received other than what was coming in for testimony. Any others? Hearing that. Nichols: Mr. Mayor, members of the Council, those letters that have been referred to need to be put in the public record, and they need to be given to the Clerk if they've not already been received. Corrie: Also, my conversations were logged in by my secretary. I don't know whether you need that - it's just a log-in that we keep in the office. Are we ready? Item 1. Item 2. Item 3. Continued Public Hearing: AZ 00-006 Request for annexation and zoning of 12.73 acres from RT to L-Q and R-15 zones by Vicki Welker I Gold River Companies, Inc., for proposed Valeri Heights Subdivision at the northeast corner of W. Pine Avenue and N. Ten Mile Road: Continued Public Hearing: PP 00-005 Request for preliminary Plat approval for proposed Valeri Heights Subdivision with 1 0 building lots and 2 other lots on 12.73 acres in proposed L-Q and R-15 zones by Vicki Welker I Gold River Companies, Inc., at the northeast corner of W. Pine Avenue and N. Ten Mile Road: Continued Public Hearing: CUP 00-014 Request for Conditional Use Permit for proposed Valeri Heights Subdivision for a 128- unit apartment complex, townhouses and offices on 12.73 acres in proposed L-Q and R-15 zones by Vicki Welker I Gold River Companies, Inc., at the northeast corner of W. Pine Avenue and N. · Ten Mile Road: Corrie: I will continue the public hearing on AZ 00-006. This is a request for annexation and zoning of 12.73 acres, from RT to LO and R-15 zoned by Vickie Welker and Gold River Companies, Inc., for the proposed Valeri Heights Subdivision at the northeast corner of West Pine Avenue and Ten Mile Road. I will continue the public hearing at this time and invite staff comments first. Bird: Can we consolidate all three of those? I believe we had continued those as a three. Corrie: If that's the wish of the Council. Then I will also take testimony at the same time on the request for Preliminary Plat for approval of Valeri Heights Subdivision, and also the request for conditional use permit. We will be voting separately on those, but will take testimony on all of it. All of your testimony will count for all of them. First off, let me set some rules here. Staff will make their comments first, then the applicant will do his comments. The applicant will have five minutes. Then the public will have testimony and we will allow three minutes (-- . Meridian City Council Meeting . August 22, 2000 PageS ( for each testimony. First will be those testifying for the project and then after those are finished, they will take the testimony of those against the project. After everybody has had the chance to speak - and I hope that you don't get up and repeat what everybody else has said. If you agree with them, fine. If you have something new to say, let's hear it. After all the testimony and the public is done, we will give the applicant time to answer any questions brought up during the public hearing at that time. Then the Council will deliberate, they will decide whether they want to have any more questions from the public or any other answers, then they will close the} public hearing and deliberate and decide what they want to do on each one of these. With that being said, staff comments first on the annexation, then the Preliminary Plat, and the request for Conditional Use Permit. We'll take them all together. Staff comments. Stiles: We really don't have anything to add to our previous comments. As you can tell from the plat or the site plan up on the wall, they have made some revisions to what was previously a roadway connection off Ten Mile Road that would go up into the Thunder Creek Subdivision, and they have made some modifications to the turnaround and the future connection to the property to the east of this parcel. I'll let the applicant explain any other changes that they have made to the applications, but you have a copy of the site plan that was received from the applicant yesterday. That's alii have. Corrie: Any other staff comments? Mr. Bowers, Fire Chief. Bowers: Mayor, City Council members, this is the first time I have seen this plan. I do have a little concern, and I have talked to Mrs. Welker on it tonight. It's the cul-de-sac on the right-hand side there. That would be the northeast corner. We possibly will have a problem with the island right in the middle in trying to truck around that, so we would need to try and work that out with her on getting our truck through that island in that cul-de-sac. Corrie: The applicant's testimony. Bailey: Mr. Mayor, Council members, My name is David Bailey and I'm representing Vickie Welker of Gold River Companies. I hope I can cover this in five minutes and I'll do my very best but I do want to discuss the issues that we agreed upon with the neighbors as that was part of the conditions that we talked about. Very quickly some background on this, the property was originally under contract in February 1999, we submitted a plat at that time and went through the entire process and were denied by Planning & Zoning and City Council. At that time, we went back and thought that if we understood what we could do to get the project approved on the ground or get a project approved on the ground. We polled the City Council Members, Planning & Zoning members, and talked to as many people as we could, COMPASS and some other agencies. We tried to come back with a plan that matched what we thought was necessary to get the project approved. We brought that to Planning & Zoning Commission and ( Meridian City Council Meeting August 22, 2000 Page 6 submitted it in February 2000. They approved it and then we brought it to the City Council. Following the denial by City Council, as Ms. DeWeerd did say, we met with Ms. deWeerd and Councilman Anderson and discussed with them and the message we got from that discussion, was that if we could get a consensus from the neighbors who wanted to participate in things we could change to the project, we understood from that meeting, that's what we needed to bring this thing back before the Council. We had our first meeting with the neighbors on June 15th, shortly thereafter, and I don't have the exact numbers with me, but I would guess about 15 of the neighbors who came to that. There were several who could not come because of the short time frame we had in which to hold the meeting and give the notice. We talked to the neighbors about the issues at that time and then we scheduled another meeting which we held on July 11 tho We tried to give as much notice as we could for that second meeting, and we had a significant turnout of the neighbors. Mr. Blazer was absent from both of those meetings, and I only bring that up in that we've heard testimony from him in the hearings, but haven't gotten any input from him outside of those hearings and we cantt change the process much if he doesn't tell us what we could do to make this work. We have met with the neighbors who responded. The second meeting we did a mailing which was almost 700 feet from the property, well in excess of the requirements. We noticed people on the roads that would be affected as much as we could and we also posted flyers in the neighborhood for that meeting and tried to get the word out as much as possible. What we talked to the neighbors about, and I subsequently had discussions with Mrs. ,Atkinson and Mrs. Wilder and Reese Walther on a number of occasions concerning issues associated with this and tried to do everything we could to get the consensus of what the neighbors needed to see from the project in order to make it go or make it acceptable to them. I'm not saying that they all want this. I'm not up here to say that. I am here to say, that of the neighbors who participated in the meetings, I believe that what we have here, and what we have changed in this and what the project as presented now, represents a consensus of what the neighbors can tolerate for this area. A number of them thinks it is a great solution for that intersection which is a significant concern of most of the neighbors around there is the traffic signal at that intersection. I would like to bring up that at the last meeting we had a week ago, I know we opened the p8ublic hearing briefly and then closed it again. There were 21 people here who were in favor and there were two that signed by raising their hand that they were oppposed to the process. Obviously we've got a lot more people here than that, and I guess we'll hear how it .pans out on who is in favor and who is opposed. I guess I would ask to look at the fact that we are trying to chase a moving target. We tried to get everybody involved. We tried to notify everybody as much as we can of the process and provided phone numbers and tried to get as much input as we could. So the people who were here that I haven't heard from before, I can't tell you how to address those problems because I didn't know what they were, what their issues were on those. So I'll skip over some of the things we have here. We have a list of items that we have agreed upon with the neighbors. We've agreed with the neighbors that we will install a fully functioning traffic light ( Meridian City Council Meeting August 221 2000 Page 7 at the intersection of Ten Mile Road and Pine Street, we have, in addition, gotten approval for this from the Ada County Highway District. The Ada County Highway District has offered to purchase the equipment only for that installation. The remainder of the cost, the design and the installation of that will all be borne by the developer. We will have left-turn lanes from Ten Mile Road onto Pine Street and from Pine Street onto Ten Mile Road; full, left-hand turn lanes there. We will also construct a full intersection to the west of the property and part of that will be on the Episcopal Church property, and at this time they are willing to accept a proposal from us on that for the additional right-at-way that will be necessary to do that. Again, you've probably seen the conditions of approval from the Ada County Highway District. We went to their meeting two weeks ago, I believe it was, and Mrs. Wilder and Mrs. Atkinson were at that meeting along with a couple of other neighbors. At that meeting, as far as the traffic goes, we were all in agreement with that. That will include a signal to the west also. There was a proposal at one time to use a stop sign on Pine Lane on the west, and we are not going to do that. It will be a full traffic signal there. We've redesigned the building to include more decorative windows and door styles on both sides of the buildings, a weather access and a cut-through to the traffic signal on the office building to make sure we have access for children to go to that point, cross the road at the traffic signal, if necessary, to go to Pine Lane and access to those crossings in that area. We've agreed that any businesses operating in the office complex, other than the office users, will have daytime operations. Evening hours would be restricted to 10:30 in the evening. There will be no bars or other such operations there, and that was part of the original conditions the Council had for this as tar as restricting the type ot uses in the L-Q zone. We suggested at one point that we turn the office building around. We brought up as many options as we could and the neighbor. The consensus that we felt from the orientation of the office building was what they preferred in this application. We agreed to tile the Ten Mile drain and that was in our original application. The garages on the northern most part of the property, we have moved to 15 feet from the property line versus 10 feet trom the property line which is previously shown and on the eastern boundary as well. In that area, we have made several proposals to the neighbors as far as what would be required to be there. We have offered to brick those buildings; we've offered to build a berm with a fence on top or to put a sight-obstructing fence in there. My understanding at this point, and we are willing to do any of those, but my understanding at this point, is that a sight-obstructing, six-foot foot fence would be satisfactory to the neighbors. Changes to the layout that were requested, there was a concern with the traffic on Lightning Way and Gray Cloud Way and potential traffic from this development that would go out through those connections. We didn't think that the Highway District would go along with closing off Lightning Way on this project, but we said that we would ask'. We did ask and came up with this proposal we are showing here. Ada County Highway District has approved this as part of their conditions of approval for a turnaround on the entrance to the project. There wouldn't be access to Lightning Way. On Gray Cloud Way. this configuration that I'm showing here, is what the Highway District approved. They ( Meridian City Council Meeting August22,2000 Page 8 ( also discussed in their hearing and would not object to and were going to add in an additional island at the intersection of this development and Thunder Creek to the north. It would just be a traffic island and it would be in accordance with the Highway District design standards. They do have a provision in their conditions of approval for additional landscape islands. As far as the turnaround at the end of this, they're concerns is that we made that a completed end to the project. Such that this is done, if they never wanted to extend that, that no one would have to build those improvements if they were there already. You will see the turnaround completes at the end there. They do and they are reserving the right to open that if they need to serve the property to the east some point in the future. They did note that as you see in the upper right hand corner of the drawing, there is another stub street up there that could possibly serve that property to the south, or this could and that decision would be made final at the time they bring this application, the property to the east brings this application in. As far as that turnaround, the conditions that ACHD put on it is that we have the ACHD-approved turnaround at the end of this project. We will work with the Fire Department as much as necessary. And if necessary, we can tweak things a little bit here and put a full radius cul-de-sac in that turnaround. We can modify that to go that way. I can work with the Fire Department to show them how I came up with the calculations as far as the distance for the turnaround of the fire trucks is met there, I believe it is. In this case we can adjust the island a little bit if that is necessary to make the project work. The intent of this is to discourage access from the apartment complex up Gray Cloud Way. The intent of the layout I have here, the additional island will also add to that intent. Spent a little longer on that than I wanted to. We have agreed with the neighbors and we have also talked to the Highway District. We will install sidewalk on the east side of Ten Mile Road from this project to Cherry Lane where feasible. As of right now, we have the verbal agreement of all but two of the property owners on the east side of Ten Mile Road to extend that sidewalk. Ada County Highway District will pay for the right-af-way, will purchase the right-af-way for up to the 45 or 48 feet, I think it is, from those property owners so we can construct the sidewalk within the right-of-way. If they don't wish to sell at this time, ACHD will accept an easement from those property owners in order to construct that sidewalk and that's all at the cost of the developer. The intent is to provide a path for children to go to Cherry Lane where there is a crossing signal so they can get to the school on the west side of Ten Mile Road. We agreed with the neighbors that we would reduce the height of the northern most building shown on the project there such that people in the third-story units of these projects could not see someone in their backyard or vice-versa. So if someone's standing in the backyard of the two property owners immediately to the north, could not see someone standing on a balcony and we proposed to do that by lowering the finished floor of the building and the grating on the site. We have done some preliminary design on that shown and can make that work and the sewer will still serve that building. We are not going to run into a problem with the sewer not being deep enough to do that. We are confident we can make that work and we certainly want that to be a condition of approval and that we meet that condition of the neighbors. We ( Meridian City Council Meeting August 22, 2000 Page 9 ( have also agreed and we discussed in both hearings we have had, that we are willing to work for the neighbors from this point forward as well. If we were to receive approval on this project tonight, we would not shut the doors on requests or discussions with the neighbors. We want to make sure this fits with the neighborhood and that this is something that will work with them. If there are changes that need to be made as we go along in the way we do things and the type of trees, for example, we put on the north boundary line, we are willing to continue to work with the neighbors on any of those issues that we need to. I think that's all I have unless you have any more questions for me. Corrie: Any questions of the Council? Bird: I have none. deWeerd: Mr. Mayor, when you mentioned that you would reduce the height of the northern most building, what are you reducing that to? Bailey: We don't have a specific elevation set on that, but we are reducing it such that someone standing - the condition was that if someone is standing at the north end of Mr. Walther's property at his fence, he could not see someone standing on the third-floor balcony of that building with the north garages on them. deWeerd: That condition would be subjective. How do you enforce that one, Shari? It probably would need a certain height. Bailey: I can draw a diagram of what we need to do as far as what we discussed with Mr. Walter and put it up to Mr. Walter to provide the City a letter saying that he agrees with the height that we are placing the building at. deWeerd: We will get to that. Corrie: Anything else? Hearing none. Thank you. All right. Now we will take testimony from the general public on those who are in favor of this project. Again, I ask that you limit your comments to three minutes so we get every one who wants to speak a chance to speak. If it's the same thing that you have heard before, help us out a little bit. Fuller: My name is Dave Fuller, current owner of the property at 890 North Ten Mile. I prepared quite a lengthy deal here, but I will run through it in about two and-a-half minutes for you. Mr. Mayor, City Council members, first off, you covered the first item on my list here as you received the letters concerning this project. Do you want to discuss any of those with me because some of those letters were from me and we didn't get any discussion last time. Anybody have any discussion on the letters you received? At the last meeting, all voices that were in favor of this project were not heard. Partly because some people feel ( Meridian City Council Meeting August 22, 2000 Page 10 (r-' \.. intimidated when they stand up to speak in front of you. They just don't do it every day so they feel a little intimidated. Others assumed it was a done deal because Planning & Zoning passed it with a large majority. The Assessor's Office even billed us five times our normal tax rate as they also understood it was a done deal. Shortly after, we found out that that was illegal and we kind of appreciate the City and the County working a little closer together on this deal. It was thousands of dollars. Mr. Anderson is not here right now, but I want you to hear what I had to say with his concerns which I think is important. Mr. Anderson, you requested that we hold a neighborhood meeting for feedback on changes on the project that would generate support from the opposing side. We did hold meetings, and on a large part, they were positive. Some of our neighbors showed up in support that we never even talked to before. A few hard-line folks have concerns about the impact, and we understand their concerns. The developer addressed those concerns as you heard part of them tonight, such as fire gates. They started with fire gates rather than cul-de-sacs and building heights which were just discussed a few minutes ago. I'll just throw alittle bit in there. We will try to dig as much dirt out of there as we can. I don't think we can guarantee that you can't see anyone; you might stand on a crate or something. But we've got as much dirt as we can to please the neighbors. Sidewalks, I went down and talked to the two neighbors that are still out standing on the sidewalks. They are waiting for the County to pay for that right-af-way. It is something that can be worked out, I believe, with the County and the developer. We support the neighborhood input if the City, County and Fire Department will go along with these requests. If not, we did our best and asked that you accept this project as is because we believe the impact will be minimal and the gains to the community will be positive. At the last meeting, Mr. Anderson had questions about luxury apartments. We looked around because we know he's been busy in Nampa with his other job and projects and stuff. We looked around and did some work for him a little bit on the luxury apartments. What we found was that luxury apartments are basically three-story with nice siding, good landscaping, and amenities like swimming pools, clubhouse, weight room, those kinds of things, with garages. We found non-luxury apartments to be two-story, with poor siding and no amenities or no garages, carports. Mrs. McCandless, your statement at the last meeting, you thought this project was beautiful, but it was too far out for offices on the corner. We disagree. Some of the neighbors at the neighborhood meeting also disagreed. Some of the folks mentioned they would like to see a nice restaurant on that end of town, and I just would like to throw in a little comment. We tried to go to the Roadhouse last weekend, we went back without anything to eat. It was too darn crowded. My wife has met with Shari Stiles, and Tammy is aware of this because she was there. She was informed that if this project is not approved, we will be back for all commercial status. I would like to pass this - no, it's not an accurate map, but what I'm using this map for - I circled the red commercial area which is already built, and you will notice that I am the only corner in that circle without any commercial. I met with Keith Borup at his office, next to Aspen Hills Apartment Complex, we looked over the fence and discussed buffer zones because that ( Meridian City Council Meeting August22,2000 Page 11 ( seemed to be a pretty big issue last time. I told Keith that I took pictures of apartments and commercial buildings and I couldn't find buffer zones or transition areas from single-family homes. I will present them real quick so you can add them to the record. Mr. Borup told me that he drives Meridian Road several times a day and never sees more than two or three cars leaving Aspen Hills Complex. He also told me they only noise he ever hears is the garbage truck on trash day. He says the complex is a nice complex and it is a three-story complex. As you know, Mr. Borup from Planning & Zoning, voted to approve this project. We feel he is a good and qualified representative of the City of Meridian. I value his opinion. We ask that you listen closely to testimony tonight, weigh the pros and cons. I believe the pros not only benefit the City dwellers, but this is real important because I'm in the County, it also benefits people living in the County coming into the City. This will be a main entrance to Meridian for several years especially for the high-school kids that drive from Kuna, south freeway area. We feel a deep responsibility for their safety and we think this project addresses those high-school kids' safety. I'd like this entered into the record, please. I've been carrying these around. There are more signatures for the petition here, about 150 and I'd like those entered in as favored. A lot of those people drive that road, school bus drivers, and several people live within 300 feet of the project that signed that petition. Not all, but several have. I know all by first name except Cherie, I haven't had the chance to talk to you much. Is there any questions? Bird: I have none, Mayor. Fuller: I sure would like one. None? All right. Corrie: Thank you, you stayed under five minutes. Thank you very much. Glad to see the people are smiling instead of growling right now. Any other testimony in the positive? deWeerd: Mr. Mayor, there is something to add real quick, Mr. Fuller referred to a Comprehensive Plan steering committee meeting that I was in attendance to that Mrs. Fuller had made that comment to Shari Stiles. Corrie: Thank you. Yes, ma'am. Name, please. Garner: My name is Tracy Garner, and I live at 680 North Ten Mile Road which is the 22 acres that is directly south of the Valeri Heights project. I'd like to thank you for reopening this for discussion and let you know that my husband and I are in support of the Valeri Heights project. Of the six acres (inaudible) that are directly impacted by this project, we are what you would call the new kids on the block, meaning we purchased our property after all the other acreage owners, the current acreage owners were already in ownership of their property. Prior to purchasing the land, we did about a year's worth of research. We had future development goals and dreams that we wanted to pursue and we wanted to \.- Meridian City Council Meeting. August22J2000 Page 12 ( make sure that we purchased land that was right for that. In part and parcel of doing that research, we reviewed the 1993 Comprehensive Plan. We talked to Ada County and also went to ACHD and were aware of the proposed four-lane expansion of Ten Mile and a building of an off ramp on the freeway. All of that met our needs for our goal so we proceeded with purchasing that land. I ask you this, if you vote down this project, would you please take into consideration that the Comprehensive Plan will also need to reflect that which means that decrease our land value. We will lose the income that we have already invested into the project for our future development, and also, essentially our future development goals will be gone. There will be a wash because the new Comprehensive Plan, if you vote this down and it goes to single-family residential homes, we will not be able to proceed with our project. I guess one of the issues that is extremely frustrating to me is one of the new subdivisions that borders and is impacted on this, came into development and the owners purchased their land following us doing ours. That information was out there and I somewhat feel like I'm being asked to subsidize or 'being punished for people purchasing their land, whether they were misinformed or uninformed, I'm not sure, but it is greatly impacting us as acreage owners. Of the six acreage owners, my husband and I have individually spoke with all of them, and all but one are opposed to this project. I think that is Mr. Blazer and that's because he has some obvious conflicts. So in lieu of that, I ask that you reconsider your vote - (Unidentified comment from audience) Garner: - In favor? That's what I meant. In favor. This isn't (inaudible). I was one of those ones that didn't show up because I didn't want to speak. Also, also my husband and I sent in a letter on July 11th in support of the project, and I did not hear our name or whether that letter was received. It was. Corrie: It was received and put into the record. Garner: In addition, we have received signatures from - if I can find it here - I will add it to the record. The other thing is my mother-in-law was to be here to speak on behalf of the project and she had to fulfill grandmother duties and was unable to attend. She asked that I speak on her behalf. One of her concerns is she is elderly, moved to Meridian to live closer to my husband and I and had difficulty in finding an apartment of a higher caliber and that met her needs. So this project, obviously, she would be in favor of. Some of the current apartment complexes in the area, there are three- to four-month waiting periods. She wanted me to bring that to your attention that there is a need for apartment complexes in the area. Thank you. Corrie: Thank you. Bird: I have none. I~: \ Meridian City Council Meeting August 22, 2000 Page 13 ( Corrie: You did a nice job. Anyone else? Bravo: My name is Steve Bravo. I live at 3715 West Pine. I am also very nervous about getting up here and talking to you guys. *** End of Side 1 *** Bravo - information. I have gone to the neighborhood meetings and the Ada County Highway District meeting. I was very impressed with the cooperation they gave to the people that showed up. There was four of us. I spoke on behalf and asked questions on behalf of the people who already lived in the subdivision about this road possibly going through and connecting to Pine. They told everyone they would do their best to prevent that, although there are no guarantees and they will try very hard to keep that from connecting to Pine Street because of the high-school situation. We are very glad to hear that. My concern at this point is strictly safety. I am going against some of neighbors on this, but I think this is a good deal. Cherie, I like your attitude as wanting more structure before we proceed with these projects. I think in this case, we are getting ahead of the game on this, at least we are getting a good intersection out of this, and I think it's going to put us way away of the times if you guys allow this to go through. We're going to get something that normally we'd have to wait 5 to 1 0 years. Basically that's my point that everybody's on record saying that they're going to do this. The only thing I would like you to explain, when you get time, for some of us who don't understand is what exactly entails in a conditional use permit? Some of us don't fully understand that, so we would like a little input from you guys on what that entails. Thank you. Corrie: Any questions, Council? Thank you, Steve. Anyone else? Fuller: Mayor, City Council members, you know me as Shirley Fuller. I reside at 890 North Ten Mile. I begin to feel like we are next-door neighbors, I'm down here enough we probably should be - or related. One of the two. I have two letters from supporters who could not be here tonight, and I would like to read them to you and then go on from there. One is from an Amber Kerns, she's a good friend of my daughter and lives in an apartments: "City Council Members. I am writing in support of the road improvements on Ten Mile and Pine. These improvements would make it much safer for the high school students that drive down Ten Mile. I have seen the Valeri Heights plan and I believe the landscaping will beautify the City. This is a good project for our future." This is a young girl who has driven this road for many, many years going back and forth to school. The next letter I have is from a dear old friend of ours: "Meridian Mayor and City Council Members. As an Ada County resident and having been involved in farming and stock raising for 45 years, I have been watching closely the progressive of the Valeri Heights development project. It was enlightening and encouraging to see how diversified a development can be. As I studied the plat and the artist's conception of Valeri Heights, using imagination and creativity, ( Meridian City Council Meeting August 22, 2000 Page 14 ( a small acreage has been transformed into a workable solution in a growing section of Meridian, providing homes in an attractive setting and needed services associated with the small office complex. Valeri Heights is a breath of fresh air in our world of cookie cutter-subdivisions, regardless of the price range of the homes. The Fuller farm will be sold sooner or later; not because the Fuller's are giving up on farming, they are not. Rather, because their farm is in a viable location in a growing community. The Fuller's tenacity and involvement in this project has shown me that they are willing to give up their land and home only if the development is something they can be proud of. Providing for as many people as possible, is a natural instinct of farmers and stockmen." She says, "I hope you will consider Valeri Heights as a favorable addition to Meridian's growth. Sincerely, B. J. Marshall. II I have a Comprehensive Plan here. I was going to read a section here that talks about private property rights. You all know it and if the neighbors want to know it, they can go down and pick up their own booklet. I feel I only have a short time and I'm not going to go over this. The reason I am bringing this portion up to you, is the following: Erma wrote a letter to P & Z for the 2000 Comprehensive Plan requesting our property to be down- zoned to R4. This was a last ditch effort to de-value our property and try to stop this development that was denied. It will be high density which means, that if this doesn't pass today, the next project will be more apartments, not less. The old saying flbe careful what you ask for or complain about, you might not get it or it might be worse." That intersection is very important to us as homeowners of that property we have been there for 1 0 years and we know the impact that is there. We are very concerned about that road. I have quite a bit on that that has already been discussed. I'm going to bypass that. I only recognize a few of the people here. A few of them have been at the City Council meetings, a few at the p & Z, a few at our neighborhood meetings. I will tell you right now, not one of these people that stopped by my house to talk to me or my husband about this project. Not one of these people has stopped by and said IIHey Shirley, how about if you do this?" or "How about you do that?", that's not happened. I understand these people are going to be here. I'm afraid that the because of the attitude of the neighbors and the way we've been treated, I don't value their opinions very highly. My husband does, but I don't. I'm very vengeful, I feel like we've been attacked and Mr. Mayor, I think you would take this very personally, as personally as I've taken this. I think there are probably a whole lot of people that probably wouldn't. I think the lot owners are worried about the impact to them and I don't think they are thinking about everybody else who drives that road and people who need apartments to live in. Not everybody wants to live in a house, not everybody wants to live in apartments, but I think we have to go in and not discriminating and give these people that option to choose their own way. I don't think this is going to impact the neighbors. I think the developers have done everything possible that has been asked of her to go it. In fact, I think she has even bent over backwards to do what needs to be done to satisfy people's needs. You also got the letter, I want to mention, on my response to Mr. Blazer's comments from our previous meetings. Right now I kind of want to beat ( ( Meridian City Council Meeting. August22,2000 Page 15 up on Mr. Blazer but I'm not going to. I'm going to let it go. We will do that at some later date. Corrie: I don't know if that's a threat or a promise. Fuller: It's to the point, you know, that I've seen a lot of movies and everybody else has and it's by John Wayne or a Clint Eastwood movie, "Baby, you can take it to the bank." Do you have any questions for me, Mr. Mayor? Corrie: I don't. Bird: I don't. I (inaudible) for you. Corrie: Okay. Anyone else for the project? Shaul: My name is Rod Shaul, I reside at 775 North Ten Mile. Mayor Corrie and the rest of City Council. I've been pretty quiet in this thing, I really feel it impacts me more than most people involved. I have the corner to the south and west of that. I don't have a fence anymore because people keep driving through it and I had to move the bus stop - I demanded the bus stop be moved to the south so my kids were safe. I am always calling in auto accidents, kids are bouncing off those corners, they are driving into the fields. The stoplight is definitely something that is needed very bad. As far as the property value, I agree with my other neighbor. I bought my place for an investment and if we start moving things around, that changes a lot of plans and impacts my family and the rest of the neighborhood a ton. I think the realtor has done a good job adjusting all the roads. I was at the County meeting and everybody worked together. It was a great deal. I don't have a lot more to say. You can tell I'm nervous. Thank you. Corrie: Thank you, Rod. I can't imagine a fireman being nervous, but I guess fires are different. Garner: My name is Tony Garner. I'm the husband of the future politician over there. I'm on 680 North Ten Mile. I just real quickly wanted to talk about some of the enhancements I think this will bring to the area. I agree with the gentleman before us that the traffic light is a much needed light at that intersection on Ten Mile and Pine. It's already a problem. Our fence has been hit twice and we have only owned a couple of years now - the property. I also liked the idea of sidewalks all the way to Cherry Lane as well as the opposite side of the street. I'm not sure if any other developers are willing to invest that kind of money to do that for the community. Most developers are in it for the money and unfortunately don't listen to a lot of the homeowners around them. I think Vicki, from at least since we've been involved with this project, has really been good for us and listened to our needs and our wants. As far as there have been people in opposition with the project, but I feel that being at the last three or four meetings that they have had, they've really bent over backwards trying to make those ( f . Meridian City Council Meeting August 22, 2000 Page 16 needs met. I don't know why I'm nervous because I kind of do this for a living. Another thing, as far as the landscaping and the budget that they have proposed, $400,000, in my mind has to be one of the largest in Meridian's history for a development such as this. After seeing the landscape architect that they have selected and the engineers involved, this is going to be a top-notch project. I like the idea of having 24-hour maintenance on the project, being that it is a apartment complex and a professional buildings in front. The idea that I like about that is that there isn't going to be trash on the berms; there's not going to be huge weeds out front by the sidewalk. Any of the higher-end apartment complexes and office buildings just won't tolerate that. I also liked the idea of having the trash cans concealed in a hidden quarters so we don't have dumpsters or trash cans out. Really, I guess, other than the traffic light, that's all I have to say. I'm really surprised that there is so much opposition for a project like this. I think it's going to really enhance Meridian. I think it's going to be a stepping stone to where this City needs to go especially since Ten Mile, eventually will be a four-lane interchange on Ten Mile which we are strongly for being we want our own business eventually on the southeast side. I really don't know how many people really would like to live on the corner, as far as the on the office part of it, how many people are going to want to live o-n that corner when it's going to be a four lane road eventually. I think it's crazy that we are not even thinking about having that commercial or light office because I guarantee it in another two years, that's exactly what we are going to be doing with our land. Hopefully we'll get a lot more support from it. I guess that's about all. Corrie: Did you say you were a politician? Garner: No, I said my future politician. Corrie: Okay. We'll look forward to that. There's one back here. Lamonyun: My name is Gary Lamonyun. I live at 1025 North Ten Mile on the north side of Ten Mile across from the Thunder Creek Subdivision and the proposed Valeri Heights complex. I have to agree with this being a complex that will enhance the area out there. They have done everything they can to do all the concerns of the neighbors there, for the safety and the help with the Fire Department's concerns and with the sidewalks and the lights there, we have been there some eight years now. When we moved out there, there was really nothing out there even at eight years ago except for the Fullers and ourselves and the neighbors there. I think the neighborhoods that have come in lately have some concerns of people coming in closer to them. They should have been there eight years ago when they started moving in. I feel that someone, especially with a project like this that is upscale, that is trying to help the City a little bit and make a little profit so you can keep your way of life and move on out like ourselves will probably have to do to keep our way of life. We don't want to live in the City. People are concerned with people looking over their fences and things. Well, that's part of City life. If you live in a neighborhood, you'ore going /. (, Meridian City Council Meetin~ August 22, 2000 Page 17 ( to have neighbors. That's just the way it is. The growth is going to come to this area and there's not a whole lot we can do about it, but hopefully people will try not to keep projects like this out from going. There were some concerns from one gentleman that he couldn't get the same return on his property. He just bought it. If these people had it like we have for a number of years, the property will cost as much. That's inflation. People have to understand that, and I think they have done the best they can to meet everybody's needs. Thank you. Corrie: Thank you, Gary. There was a lady in the back. Okay. Welker: My name is Teresa Welker. I live at 1203 Northwest 7th. I know thafs in town. We just recently moved to Meridian, and I don't really have a lot to add. I agree with what everybody has said so far that Meridian definitely does need new housing, apartment complex, and I do know that the street light would definitely be a good idea. That's all. Corrie: Thank you, Teresa. Huskey: My name is Jan Huskey. 1 live at 5859 O'Oonnel in Meridian. I've looked at these plans as a landscape maintenance worker, and I recognize that this is beautiful landscape that they have planned. I am also concerned with all those ugly bumpers that they have at the intersection, and that needs to be cleaned up and the drain ditch tiled. Any time you can get a stop light installed by the developer, I think you've got a win deal. So I would encourage you to vote for this. Summons: I'm Jeff Summons. I live at 2861 West Forecast in Meridian. We originally opposed this when we heard it was subsidized and was going to be a lot larger than it was. After seeing the plan, we think this is probably a good development and adds to the neighborhood. We would like to be out in the sticks still and see nothing but fields or parks over there, but the reality is in five years if we are lucky to move again, this place will be in the middle of the City again. My family's lived in places, I've lived in an apartment, my family lives next to an apartment, and in the long run, this is much better arrangement compared to the apartments next to my parents' house. They are 600 units and the only access road is in front of my parents' house. Through the years that hasn't hurt them; although at various times some of the residents of the apartments have been a pain, but all in all I think this will contribute and the light office. At various times I'm a consultant, and I would like to have an office in a nice neighborhood next to my house. That's one of the things I see in favor of. Thanks. deWeerd: Thanks, Jeff. Corrie: Anybody else? Yes, sir. M1 .d,a- C.ty C .., M ,( erl Ian I ounet eetlr\~ August 22, 2000 Page 18 ( Lambert: My name is Rick Lambert~ I live at 3220 Park Creek on the corner of Ten Mile and Park Creek. I think what they have done with this project has been good~ The apartments I don't have any opposition to, but the problem I have is still with the zoning and the L-Q zone. When I sat in the meeting with the developer over at library recently, we asked if they could put some townhouses where those office buildings are. They said no because it would affect the income of the property. When I found that out, in my mind I figured it out that this is not a residential development. This is a commercial development. If it can't survive without the commercial development, it probably shouldn't be in a residential area. The area is zoned mixed-residential and I think this should go back to Planning and Zoning for review because it is zoned mixed-residential. The office area is 26,000 square feet which is half the size of Albertson's. So if you put that into perspective, this is a major office area, and there are not enough restrictions on this office area to keep it from being a restaurant or other area that can attract a lot of kids where we already have problems with the school traffic. I'm in favor of the apartments in the residential areas; I'm opposed to the light office. I think the L-O zoning is incorrect} and I think it should be sent back to Planning and Zoning. Thank you. Corrie: Thank you. Wilder: Mayor and Council members, my name is Laura Wilder, 3401 West Ten Mile. Originally I, too, was completely opposed to this project, and while I still have many reservations about it, I guess I would fit into the category that would be called "can-tolerate." I guess this is an appropriate time for me to speak since I'm somewhere in between the two sides. I think the developer and project engineer, David Bailey, have gone to great lengths to try to make improvements to the project to have less impact on all of us neighbors; however, the reality is it is a major project, and it is going to bring change to the area and it is going to bring traffic. If we can be assured that aU of the additions and conditions that have been added to the project really do in fact come to pass, if 'wAle had some kind of assurance that if they're running low on money they don't back out on Q:nmc nf +hQ~Q +ht.nn~ I nUQS~ th~+ \A/~lllrI gi\/.Q ~oty\~ raf u~ ~ littl~ more t'omfort tJ ,.., I J........ 'V "- C '-' v '-"" :c.:: I 1::11 ~ V . . ~ T.J V r...4. L Y 'a' '-' W. 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'IF .......... *... .. ~ ~ fW" ~.......... lilt .. .. ........ .... ,.. lilt .... ... ~ ..... ~ ... ....... ..... · ... · · ........ ~.. ~....,... .} ...... ...... .. · ...... ........ · ...... · ~ ... ........ * deVe~Opm6nt. \1\16 raise ~ivestock, \~.Je 1:vant to raise our family there, and ~ve looked at those things. This certainly would change our way of life, and I just ( Meridian City Council Meetin~ August 22, 2000 Page 19 ( want you to know that not everyone is just sitting there watching dollar signs waiting until they can develop it. It affects our family in the opposite way. In reality, we know that in some time it will develop, and we will probably be forced to move, but in the meantime we shouldn't sacrifice all the property owners who are happy living there just for those who want to make an income. I can appreciate their point of view, but I hope they can appreciate ours and that we can all learn to live together. I think the developer has worked hard to try to accommodate that. Thank yOU. Corrie: Thank you, Laura. Young: My name is Tom Young. I live nowhere near this project. I do live in Meridian. I'm trying to figure out at what point the meeting went from those in favor to those in the middle. I'm still in favor, and I think we want to stick along those lines until somebody says differently. As I understand it, the Comprehensive Plan that is currently in place supports businesses along Ten Mile Road. I don't know if that is true or false. I do know Meridian needs to attract some more businesses or it's remain a bedroom community to Boise and Nampa. I don't want to see that, and I don't think anybody else does. I know a lot of people travel out of Meridian to shop all the time. We have to do it from time to time. We're getting Wal-Mart, WinCo, Shapka. Those are great, but the problem with those are they're sticking to the freeways; the easiest access they can to the freeways. They're not really drawing any customers or consumers through the town of Meridian. That really doesn't benefit the business owners, small business owners that are in Meridian. Other than that, we know west Meridian's going to grow because that's where the rest of the space is. That's just going to happen. There's not really anything we can do about it, but we do need to try to accommodate that growth. We know we need to have a business- friendly environment keep businesses coming into Meridian. If you want the quality companies to come to town, it better be a friendly environment. If you are going to have a bunch of houses going in, you are going to have to businesses close to those houses or it's going to be like it is. Everybody funnel down to the same shopping areas funnel down to the same shopping areas, and that's where the traffic problems come from. There's already too-few businesses on the west side of Meridian, and if we keep shoving houses in there and don't allow any businesses in there, that traffic is just going to keep getting worse and worse. If you are going to have a Comprehensive Plan, the important thing from a traffic perspective is to put a mix of business and residential centers together. That is really the only way you will keep traffic to a minimum. I think traffic's kind of a big problem. I noticed they are approving a lot of subdivisions in the area. There's one on every corner now. It makes sense to put a few businesses around to support those subdivisions. A question: where do you put new businesses in Meridian? Out on Ten Mile Road. I think it is a good choice, an intelligent mix of homes, businesses and apartments. That thing looks like a pretty nice deal to me, and I don't know much about it. I'll let the other people here explain why it's good. I do think also, when you talk about property owner rights, I'm not going to ( Meridian City Council Meetin~ August 22, 2000 Page 20 ( talk about that, but it just seems we are still in the United States, and if you own property J you should pretty much be able to do with what you want with it other than a toxic waste dump or something. That's far from it. That's a nice subdivision. It's a nice deal that they're making there. I think it fits nicely into Meridian. I do know people who have had a heck of a time in an apartment, and some of the apartments that do exist they don't even water the grass. I've seen some pretty shabby apartment complexes in this town, and that's not one of them. The other thing is, Meridian is going to have to have another freeway access point. I think we all know that. Anybody who has sat at stoplights at Eagle Road, you can sit through four or five stoplights before you can go. I don't think anybody considers that very much fun. I don't. You're trying to shove 40,000 people into a single exit that you share with Eagle, Middleton, Star, Emmett and beyond. It's a logical choice for the next freeway access to be Ten Mile Road. That's going to lighten the load of the traffic on the other two exits. It will serve the rest of central and west Meridian, and it's going to already be there when the growth starts happening. It's time to get with the program; get that exit put right in there. The Comprehensive Plan just needs to say business-friendly. You have to have a mixture of growth that includes residential areas that are supported by nearby shopping opportunities. Ten Mile Road fits into that kind of growth pattern, and I think that fits in real nice with what they need to do. Thank you. Corrie: Tom, can you give us your address, please. Young: 1869 East Meadowgrass. Thank you. Corrie: Thank you. Anyone else? Okay. I assume that's for, right Vicki? Welker: My name is Vicki Welker, 2326 West Rainwater Court. First of all, for the record, since you asked who met whom and who did letters, that type of thing, since the last meeting, I haven't met with you or called you~ Somebody may have, but it wasn't me. Just to get you off the hook on that one. The first thing I would like to do is the Valley Times came out today with a poem from Ethel Lescomb that was privately printed in 1986 about what makes Meridian so special. I want to take a minute and read it. "The thing that makes this town so special is not it's shops and such, it is all the beautiful people that gives it the homey touch. It i~ not the organizations, entertainment, fun or good streets, the greater part of its virtue is the lovely people you meet. It's not the weather cond itions or the way we make our living, it's the wonderful people within the town so gracious and forgiving. So if you're looking for a place in which to settle down, we invite you to Meridian our friendly little town." I was born and raised in this town, and I'm very proud of being here. I'm not trying to be a developer who is in opposition to the citizens in this town. I am one of the citizens, and I am also what you would call a renter by choice. One of the most important things that I felt that the City of Meridian has done in trying to promote the town is saying that Meridian is the place to be. But if it's going to be that, it has to be the place to be I ( Meridian City Council Meetin~ August 22,2000 Page 21 (r-- \~.. for everyone, and that includes renters. Now, the fact that I chose to do an upscale rental project on the northwest corner of town, was by choicebecause that's where the upscale housing projects, and that's where an upscale housing project would go. Even if I had chosen to do a subsidized rental project, everyone has a right to have a home regardless of your financial status, your credit situation, we all need a place to live. I believe that should be shared by everyone in town equally no matter what circumstances that you have personally. Since I am a renter by choice, I look to choose where I live. I live in a home that is 1500 square feet on the northwest section of town in Krystal Springs. I pay $1,100 in rent, I take care of my own yard, I am single, with two adult kids moving out. When I move, I want to move again into this section of town and I want to pay a little less in rent, but I want more amenities. There is only one place I know that I can go to get that, that's the project I have planned. If I pick the largest unit, it will be 3 bedroom, 2 bath; it would cost me $900 a month, and I would have a clubhouse, swimming pool, a basketball court, gazebo and picnic area, tot lot for my grandson, and a water fountain to sit at in the evenings and enjoy. A house doesn't give me that. Since I'm a renter by choice, I don't necessarily want to live in a house. I want a complex to live in where I can have neighbors to get to know and have the amenities available to me that I choose to have in my own surroundings. That is one of the reasons I am a renter by choice because I can make different choices. I don't have to sell my home when I want to move to a better place. I think there are a lot of people who make those same choices. They are professional people who want those kinds of amenities and they are willing to pay high amount of rents for it. But they want a complex that is well taken care of and the amenities are there for them. Meridian has two what I would say higher end residential areas. One is in the northwest and the other one is by Meridian Greens. The history since we started the processing of this project 18 months ago, Meridian has approved five apartment complexes. For the most part, those are on the east end of town. There's nothing that's been developed or approved on the west end that touches the apartment market that I'm talking about. Resolution Park was approved in an R-15; Cobblestone was approved in a R-40 with 16 units an acre; Teare Terrace on Fairview was approved on R-15 and doesn't even have a plan that went with it. There is another project with 52 units on Fairview and Locust Grove, and then you have Touchmark which does a lot for the community. But if you are making comparables, every one of these projects has traffic problems; every one of them is trying to accommodate a need, and not one of these projects as I've looked at plats and applications brings to it with a small number of acres and the number of units that I proposed, brings to it the amenities that I have put in this project in addition to being low density to my way of thinking: 13 units to the acre is certainly not high density. It would be a medium density, but those projects don't bring the amount of amenities in comparison. So, another thing I would like to mention is on the conditions that we worked out with the neighbors that didn't get brought to bear earlier is that with projects in Boise who have apartments and they have amenities and they have Homeowners Associations, we are making memberships in the Homeowners Associations to the owners and employees of ( Meridian City Council Meetin~. August 22, 2000 Page 22 (~~ fl.. . the office also. Most people can use this. We are also opening this up on a payment basis to the neighbors. I won't be able to do that with everyone, but I can have 30-50 memberships on a payment basis with an amount that would be comparable to what's done in other complexes, and the neighbors can share in those amenities also. I can't see that as being anything but a benefit to the value of their homes, because their children can come and take advantage of it, they can come and take advantage of it, and they can consider it their complex as well instead of just the neighbors next door. As I compare this complex as proposed to the list of complexes that have been sold in the Valley, the two highest ones - and I don't have a real recent one, but as of a year ago, the two highest ones were Clearwater that sold for $62,683 per unit and Renaissance that sold for $63,888 per unit. Now, talking to (inaudible) who is a very highly regarded commercial and apartment appraiser, Mountain States Appraisal, he tells me that my project will come in at the range of $63,800 per unit. That is a $12 million project in addition to when you combine it with the office complex. I think that is a benefit to Meridian in addition to the amenities, we're are bring in tax dollars. I knew when I decided to develop this project that it was going to create a new corridor of development, but because I'm creative and I try to thing of - one of the first things that Shari said to me, you always like ot do something different. Yes, I do. I'm always doing something different, but it's what I thought would work. It's going to do nothing but add value to the neighbors, even the single- family homes. If they can figure out how to think this way, the homes that are in there so far, some of the realtors and some of the builders have come to me and asked me to sell the homes in there that they haven't been able to so far. I said if you'll sell this as an amenity and you'll let them know that they can participate in the Homeowners Association, and you will quit being afraid of something different because it's new and different, you will sell your homes. I gave them copies of the apartment project and the package and the coloroed rednerings, and those homes have already been sold now. Sometimes it is fear in the mind rather than reality, and I wanted you to know that one of the things that happened through this process when Ron Anderson said to go back and meet with the neighbors again and go back and meet with the neighbors again and go back and meet with the neighbors again, it has turned out to be a very enjoyable experience for me. I have been able to do what is stated in this poem: I have been able to get to know the very lovely people in the City of Meridian even the ones who are in opposition to my project. I can't say that they're not good people. We're just trying to do something a little different. I have enjoyed the experience of getting to meet these people. The landowners. Everybody who supports the project and those who are against it. I have enjoyed the experience, and I know more people now in Meridian than I did before. I have to say that has been a real benefit for me personally. I know in studying the 1993 Camp Plan, that this project is in compliance. The fact that Valeri - this is kind of funny because Valeri Heights was the original name for Thunder Creek Subdivision. I had originally processed that parcel, annexed it and rezoned it R-4 at the same time the new Camp Plan came in. I am responsible for both sides of the coin, you might say. I had my daughter's name on that project and it Ml "d'" C* C 11I1 M · { en Ian ity ouncl eettn~ . August 22, 2000 Page 23 ( didn't become a reality, so I moved over to the next parcel. When that one became R-4 and then, also in 1993, the City of Meridian decided to put mixed- residential next to it, it didn't require that there be another transition before. The City Councilor whoever put together that plan, had to have had some concept that that R-4 parcel was next to mixed-residential and anything could happen. I don't feel that I've done anything in oppostion to the plan. It just happened that way. I feel that I've done everything that I can to try and offset that and try and be a good neighbor and promote this for the future. Corrie: Vicki - I've given you ten minutes already. Welker: Am lover five minutes? I can't do a five-minute speech. I had my speech instructor give me a B in class because I couldn't do five minutes. Okay. I'll take one more minute. Corrie: Thank you. Welker: I guess I would like to thank you for the notoriety I've received in this. I don't thyink there's anybody in the Valley who doesn't know what Valeri Heights is, and I can't thank you enough for this because I think that's going to benefit me in the future in trying to do business in this town. My father was a volunteer fire chief in this town for 37 years. The project is named after my daughter. The last thing I would like to say for any concerns that the neighbors might have about me doing what I said I was going to do, in the 18 months, I have done or achieved everything without exception that I've been asked to do on this from City Council to Planning and Zoning to the neighbors. I have don't everything. That's my commitment to do that. I think this project deserves an approval. Corrie: Anyone else for positive? If you want to, do it now because we're going to go to the other side now. Okay. We will move on to those who oppose the project. Everhart: Mayor, City Council members, my name is Devin Everhart. My current address is 1400 Sage Point in Meridian. As of the end of this month, my new address is going to be 1150 Gray Cloud. I just got out of the Marine Corp last month, and I was stationed down in San Diego, and I have had the enjoyment of living in some of these so-called luxury apartment complexes. For the last two years, I have lived in about six different complexes that are comparable to this, you know, nice landscaping. I've got to tell you, it's a nightmare. This has got southern California written all over it. I left Meridian in 1997 to join the Marines, and alii had to think about - I got married, and alii could think about was coming back here and raising my family in Meridian, Idaho. Excuse me. I'm kind of nervous. I just (inaudible) - The traffic, as I've seen the plan, I know personally, I guess I'll show everybody what I'm talking about on the map - the lot that I will close on later this month is the second one in. I have a four-year-old daughter that likes to run and play everywhere . Personally, she will not be allowed outside ( Meridian City Council Meetiri!:J August 22, 2000 Page 24 ( in the front yard if live got all of this traffic because you cannot tell me or give me any definite answers on who's going to be using that exit or that exit and a third of those people will just cut through Gray Cloud and out on Ten Mile. I went to Meridian High School, I know the traffic situation. Yes there is congestion and there probably should be a stop light there, but you can put a stop light there but you still have all this added traffic. I take pride in what is mine and having the experience of living in one of these complexes, I noticed that about 90% of the people don't have to worry about it. They don't have to care about the lawn, the driveway, the house, etc. Hey, I'm just renting. When this place gets old, I'll just pay somebody else to clean it and maybe I'll get my deposit back. Maybe I won't, but I'll just move on to the next apartment complex in ten years when the next luxury apartments come up. When I sign a mortgage, that is 30 years. Will this be a luxury apartment complex in 30 years? I mean, that's what I'm thinking about. I can't see that happening. With regard to what the Fuller's said, I can appreciate you wanting to develop. Yau guys want to be proud and have pride in what you have. Developing land for the greater benefit of everyone is a good thing but there are certain places and times for things. If you look at this area of town, you see a lot of communities, residential areas, not much high traffic. Yeah, we have got the Albertson's down there. I would rather drive 5 miles down Overland and go to the other Albertson's and do my shopping in Boise. All my major whatever grocery store and do all my major commuting to Boise. Meridian is the heart and that is what people come here for is the community atmosphere. It doesn't get any better than that. If I wanted this, I would have moved into Boise. 11m strongly opposed. I can't tell you how surprised I was when I found this out last week. I haven't been to any of the other meetings. I found out about this last week. I've been gone for about three years, so. I'm surprised how quickly Boise and the surrounding areas in Meridian and Nampa are becoming Californiacated (sic). I mean it's just too much. Thank you. Cooper: My name is Jackie Cooper, I have sent two letters and I have talked to the Mayor on the phone last week. I'm totally opposed to this. We lived in Boise and they were going to build some condos behind our house, we sold our house and moved over here. We are retired and have a 9 year-old child that is going to school. It hasn't even been addressed. I know you donlt really care about the school district, but we are overloaded over here. With the new schools opening up, they are going to be overloaded. What are you going to do with all these kids? What is my child going to do? She is going to be cramped even more than she is now. I don't like this. We need something on the road, a light and the road expanded and some sidewalks would be nice. We can always go to traffic and get them to put these things in. We need to think about our future kids and that's not going to do it. With all these other kids coming and going, I won't be able to leave my windows open or my doors open. California style. We came here from California 6 years ago, loved it because I could open my doors and windows at night. Leave a door open at night and just have to scream. I am not going to be able to do that with the apartments there. I don't want them there. I didnlt move thereto retire in our home to have apartments right behind us. I live ( Meridian City Council Meeting\. August 22, 2000 Page 25 ( at 1171 North Clara on the corner of Forecast and Clara. We do not want these apartments there. My daughter is handicapped and she can't play out front if they are there, too much traffic. When the road was closed on Pine Street, you should have seen the traffic on our street. That's ridiculous. I don't want it. I'm opposed, I think it is bad news. I don't think it's in the best interest of the people that live in this housing development now. The homes that are in there - sure they'll bring kids, that's fine. There won't be as many coming and going and who knows what kind of kids. *** End of Side 2 *** Cooper: And that's the way I feel about it. Corrie: Thank you. Gauseroni: Bear with me. I'm nervous, too. This has become very emotional for me, and I've only recently joined on the bandwagon. My name is Chelsi Gauseroni. I live at 2638 West Wave Court. The only reason I found out about this was because Erma was kind enough to put out pamphlets in my neighborhood and I am only 3 streets in from her neighborhood. I was not notified of any meetings, I know that you have posted in the newspaper but I'm not a newspaper reader and like the gentleman, I have only been here a short time. I've been here a year. I chose Meridian because it was a bedroom community. I lived in California, I've done the commute, I donlt feel there is that much commute other than the time it takes me to get through the Franklin! Ten Mile four-way stop sign. I know that eventually there will be freeway access, but that is a long ways down the road. Frankly 11m surprised that we are here tonight. It came to my attention that Ron Anderson was not going to be here and he was the one who called the meeting. Therefore, I felt that the last decision made should have stood as is. I didnlt feel like anyone else brought any new information as far as the Council Members to change their vote. I didn't feel this was necessary tonight but apparently it is. I have tried to bring as much new information as possible. Like I said, I wasn't here before and so bear with me if it's repeat. There is concern for me and my husband and our neighbors with the BSU annex that is going in at the Idaho Center. I'm not sure if everybody is aware of that, but it has been approved. That campus is going to be 150 acres with the probability of going to 200 acres. That is the exact same size as the campus that BSU is now. That is going to bring in a whole another aspect of traffic and people coming into the community. As the gentleman before me stated, these are not going to be high luxury apartments for 30 years and having lived in apartments all my life, I know they deteriorate quickly. They are good for people that are looking for a place to be for now, I don't see people living there long term. Everybody wants to move up and eventually own their own home. What I foresee is college dorms, and I'm not happy about that. I have seen other places where these apartments can go into that would facilitate that need for apartment complexes. They have access to other more developed areas. As far Me~idian City Council Meeting)',. August22,2000 Page 26 as crime, I haven't really heard anybody but the lady before me, address it. I know it is hard to determine anything, I have made some calls to the Meridian Police Department. In order to do that, I had to pick some streets, and I just wanted some random numbers on calls made. On Forecast which runs into our neighborhood for the year 2000, 30 calls were made and I have the information here that I can pass onto you when I'm done. I felt that deemed serious - person to person injury, property vandalism, what have you. On Southwest 7th which is off of Franklin which has a lot of apartment complexes, I would call them low income to middle income apartment complexes, 59 calls were made and 31 deemed serious. We have jumped 30 percent to 53 percent in an area that has a combination apartment complex. There are residences there. On James Court, where Aspen Hills is located and which seems to be a quote unquote luxury apartment - that most of the comparisons have been made. 47 calls were made. 33 deemed serious, that is 70 percent. That is very high and is not acceptable in my neighborhood. I came here because it was quiet and safe. Having been in California and South Carolina, I have always been afraid to be alone. My husband travels and I'm home a lot. I don't feel that here. And I don't want to feel it again. And I know that apartment complexes will bring that. It's just eventual. As far as Aspen Hills being quoted a quiet and luxury apartment, I don't know who came in first. I know there is HUD housing next to them and I know there is low income housing next to that. I feel that bringing this apartment complex in is going to bring other apartment complexes in. I know that that is eventual, but I don't want that in my neighborhood. I am completely opposed to this project, no matter what. There is nothing you can say to me to change my mind as far as apartment complexes going in in this development. I'm not going to settle for all of the amenities and things they are doing. I have calculated, if you take this 12 acre, and I don't know if it's a little more or a little less, if you put single family homes in there, at two cars per home, 4 homes per acre, we are going to have 96 cars. If you take a look at Aspen Hills and the amount of 2 and 3 bedrooms she has over there, approximately 192 cars would be in the neighborhood. However, although it is compared to Aspen Hills, Valeri Heights is not the same thing. She has got several more units, therefore, with the offices, based on her providing 79 parking spaces, so I added 79 cars into the total of 2 cars per 2 and 3 bedroom. There will be over 333 cars coming into our neighborhood. I can tell you. We've already got problems. We don't need 333 more cars coming in. I am settling for the 96 cars. As far as the cost, I feel that her prices are considerably higher than Aspen Hills. Therefore, you will have more people coming into those apartment complexes to make the rent, which means more cars and people as far as roommates go. I feel the area is underdeveloped for this apartment complex for it to be a luxury apartment. Our community doesn't really offer anything for the people who live in apartments. There's no bus line. There are no sidewalks. I know that they're going to put some sidewalks in but sidewalks go to Albertson's and that's it. There is really nothing that our community right in that area has to offer yet, so I feel that it is not necessary to put a luxury apartment complex there until we have further If" \ Meridian City Council Meetin!:i. August 22, 2000 Page 27 ( development farther out and can then add apartment complexes in down - hopefully Franklin leading into the BSU Annex, per-say. Corrie: I need to have you kind of wrap it up here. Gauseroni: Okay. Sorry. It's hard to put my life and my community in three minutes. As far as schools go, local parents and teachers feel their classes are full enough and we figured based on the Aspen Hills manager, she says she approximately 70 children. Obviously Valeri Heights will have more because there are more units, so we are looking at 85-90 more children, and obviously Valeri Heights is going to have more because there are more units. So we're looking at 85-90 more children and obviously there's a school issue. In closing, I am completely against this. I feel our community has more problems to worry about. It's the year 2000 and we don't even have recycling. That's ridiculous. We would like to see the widening of Ten Mile, lights at Pine and Linder, lights at Ten Mile and Franklin and a little more growth in our community before we are ready to bring them in by the bus load in apartment complexes. Corrie: On recycling, it will happen in October. Thank you, yes. Townsend: Mayor and Council members. My name is Marshal Townsend. I live at 3477 West Elm Creek. Kind of a basic thread going here this evening is some concerns. I want to address the same subject. I'm retired military. I chose to retire here in Meridian after my last assignment working with the guard here and I had a lot of opportunity to live in a lot of communities across the country in 20 years of service. I have seen a lot of apartment complexes go up. I've lived in apartment complexes. I've lived in doublewide trailers over my time. I have had the opportunity to watch apartment complexes similar to this go up and then for me to come back to that post 10 to 12 years later and get an opportunity to look at that and see the impact on the community. It has not always been growth and prosperity -- the impact, once these facilities went in. So sometimes that is a misperception what we see one point in time, when we build it is not what we get 10-12 years later down the line. I want to use a term for this. It's probably a little harsh but it's the military term for this type of housing or billeting. It's called transient billets. We are putting up housing that allows people to come in for a short time. It's already been discussed. Basically it is a transient billeting event. One thing I would never do with transient billets is put it dead in between the elementary and high school. I know what I'm going to get, and the police chief knows what I get. I get transit. At $63,000 each, I get upscale transit, but I'm going to get a lot of people that will come and live there. Along with them, we are going to get a lot of people who are going to be moving in and out. Then we get the college kids as we talked about. The impact is that this not going to be favorable for the high school because this is going to give outreach for them to come in the community to hang out after school, and I'll just use the words. I've seen this before in other communities, you wind up with a drug problem in these types of facilities, especially this close to where a perceived opportunity to sell ( Meridian City Council Meetin~ August 22, 2000 Page 28 ( the product is. So, I've been around a lot of these vents in my 20 years before retiring here. It is not always a growth and prosperity event for community to put something like this in. I'd like you take a look at not only what we are getting now, which is probably some good profit in the short hand, but what we get in the long term 10, 12 or 15 years down the road is something that we'll need to bulldoze in 15 years. My last comment is don't buy transient billets to get a stop sign in this community. We'll get together and put up a stoplight if we need a stoplight but don't give me the billets. And I apologize. I address to you sir, and not the audience, so that's all. Corrie: Folks. Don't do that. It doesn't hurt the cause at all for the Council. We are here for facts, not clapping and shouting. So if you will hold it down, I will really appreciate it. Okay? Somebody else? Everhart: My name is Dennis Everhart. I live at 1400 Sage Point. I'm the father of the young man earlier. My biggest concern along with others, is the traffic. I don't think you are solving anything by putting a stop sign in there. I come in at Ten Mile. I watch a whole string of cars coming up Ten Mile from the west side of Meridian. Again, they get back down to Meridian to get it on the freeway or whatever. I think you have a lot of problems before you continue like this valley has for the past 50 years. They get the cart before the horse. Yau better do something about Ten Mile, the overpass, Pine, before you start to allow this. There's another - I think the lady came up with some pretty good numbers. 300 cars are going to be coming out on Pine and Ten Mile daily and it just won't handle it. Right now I wait from anywhere from 20-45 minutes just to get to Meridian coming off of Ten Mile, just to get on Meridian Road to get on the freeway in the mornings. I think they are way ahead of doing a project like this that adds that number of vehicles in a great big hurry. Thank you. Corrie: Anyone else. Tamus: Mr. Mayor, Council people. My name is Marie Tamus, 1125 North Wilbur Place. I happen to be one of the few families that got a certified letter when this action started out. I work at one of the main hospitals in Boise. I drive from Meridian to Boise every day. I see what happens to people when you get this amount of cars coming and going. I guarantee you, it's not a pretty sight. I don't have to deal with them directly, but I see them, I work on a critical care unit. I have seen some bad ones lately because of apartment complexes. I was here last week, only for a few minutes, and I seen people wanting us to support a police department. I think we put this density of people in the area, we are going to . have to increase our police department because we are going to be called more often. About the businesses, restaurants -- You can have a pizza place, you will have delivery people from those places that come and go. You can't tell them to shut down at 10:30 at night, especially on the weekend. If this BSU campus is going to be as big as that lady said, that's going to be more traffic coming and going. I like the idea of the stoplight. I take Ten Mile down to ( Meridian City Council Meetin~H August 22, 2000 Page 29 ( Franklin, and Franklin to Meridian Road. I realize it's going to develop. I used to live in a city that had more people than this whole state has and there I worked in a major hospital. I know we are going to grow, but people moved to Meridian because it is a small hometown. They want to know their neighbors, they want to be able to let their kids go out and play and be safe. If you put this kind of project in that kind of community at this time, you are going to end up with people who don't want to know their neighbors, not letting their kids get out, and it will just be a lot of trouble. Mrs. Fuller threatening us, saying "well if you don't let this go, I'm going to make it bigger", just aggravates more people. I'm not saying anything against Mrs. Fuller. I see they want to do something, yes we are going to grow but this is not the way. Thank you. Staley: My name is Rebecca Staley, 1167 North Gray Cloud. Until recently, I have been the only occupied home on Gray Cloud and my husband has been to these meetings. I'm the first time to come. One of my big concerns - and he has been to the meeting to meet with the developer, and he's been to almost all of these meetings when possible was opening up Gray Cloud. My kitchen looks right onto Gray Cloud and Forecast - kind of connect as a Y. You don't see them on here. Nobody on Forecast ever looks our direction. Since I'm the only house, I even called the Transportation Department and told them that opening up Gray Cloud is going to be a tremendous difficulty because I have to yield to everyone on Forecast. They're so used to just driving right on through and this kind of looks like a stray shot. And there's no traffic sign to let anyone know where to go that I perceive a great bunch of confusion right there on what people are supposed to do. I am also concerned about the safety. I appreciate the Fullers wanting to develop this property and realize that it's going to be developed but I don't care for apartments. I would rather see single-family homes and have children. I am really concerned about the traffic in front. I would be afraid to let my children out in the front, even with me for one second with the traffic that I think will increase. This gentleman that talked also on Gray Cloud - the people who were in his home, they moved immediately when they found out there were going to be apartments. I have never seen a posting on my street telling me about this. I have received information about these meetings thanks to Mrs. Apkins. Maybe I have seen one other thing, but I never know who it's from and when I ask Irma, it's usually from here. Today when I came here, I saw postings on Ten Mile and I saw one on Pine, but there has never been a posting at the end of my street letting me know that there is anything going on in that neighborhood. I think there really is confusion or lack of information coming from the people that are developing. That's alii have to say. Corrie: Thank you. McCallister: My name is David McCallister, 2649 West Wavecourt. I'd like to follow on the same note this woman talking about postings and being notified of community meetings. I live on West Wavecourt and I've never received anything about any kind of meeting being available to discuss this, to talk about it more. ( Meridian City Council Meeting August 22, 2000 Page 30 ( I'd like to address that because there are a lot of people here that probably didn't get notified that would have liked to have been notified of these meetings that were supposedly held to discuss this further. There are a couple of other points I would like to make, Mr. Fuller is addressing that they are looking at the safety standards of the kids coming from Kuna -- different directions down Ten Mile. If we are going to talk about Ten Mile, we are going to have to talk about Franklin and Ten Mile because there is no light there and it is terrible traffic. If we talk about the impact of Ten Mile and Pine, Ten Mile and Franklin is terrible and needs to be addressed too with this impact of traffic. Last thing is, we are talking about sidewalks going on the west side of Ten Mile all the way up to Cherry Lane with a cross walk. Do I stand to be corrected? Okay, east side. Excuse me. The east side of Ten Mile going up to Cherry Lane for crosswalks for the children going into the elementary school. With that many kids being at that complex, there is - it doesn't seem like there's any protection to protect those kids who are walking up Ten Mile to Cherry Lane, to just cross Ten Mile to go into that elementary school. There is going to be more kids going up that direction without any kind of addressing of what kind of cross walks will be in place for them to get there rather than going all the way up to Ten Mile or Cherry Lane. That's it. Corrie: Thank you, Mr. McCallister. Clark: My name is Doug Clark, I'm a resident at 2562 West Ebb Tide. I live at the first house as you enter off Pine on Ocean. It's on Ebb Tide but we T right there. I will agree with you guys, we need a stop sign there or a light. If you put a light there, and the traffic that goes by my house, has come close to hitting both of my children, several other children in the neighborhood. As soon as school is in, during lunch times, morning, lunchtimes and afternoons, we have the high school kids going through there at such speeds that it endangers the entire neighborhood, let alone kids - people pulling out of their driveways. It's everybody. You put a light there, what are you going to do for the other roads, such as my road that comes in onto Ocean, over to Ebb Tide, to Haven Cove and then Forecast out to Pine. What are you guys going to do for those roads? How are you going to regulate the traffic there? What are you going to use for those people? What's going to happen to our kids? I have had to call the police more than 1 0 times. I have had the police sitting in my driveway. I've had them sit in my garage. I had them back their bikes in my garage, and offer to make them coffee and donuts just so that they would stay there so they could say how dangerous it is. I never took the concept to think that we were going to add another 400 cars almost to that area and the roads are not going to widen. In the morning, when I leave for work, when school is in, I have to leave a half-hour earlier because the school being in because they're trying to get to the road. Even if I go out - even if I go take a right to go out to Ten Mile, and then try to go to Overland and back around to try and get on the freeway. Still, trying to turn left there while the high school kids are coming is incredible. It's dangerous. So, yeah, I will agree with you. We need a light, but we don't need the apartment complex and the other traffic. And I have to agree with what someone else said ~ .,..... :('" . . J ( Meridian City Council Meeting. August 22, 2000 Page 31 ( - the transient public coming through there. I grew up here 24 years here in Meridian. I left a few years to go to school. I never ever had the intention never to come back because this is my home. This is where I was raised. This is where I wanted to raise my kids. I love this place. Yeah, I moved here. I drive to Micron, so anybody that wants to complain about commute, I make the commute, and I make it every day because I love living here. That's where I want to live. And it's just like anybody else that has to work in the City of New York that lives in Connecticut. They make the commute. They live in Connecticut because it is that bedroom community. It is what we moved here for. We didn't want all the huge metropolitan things that bring in huge complexes. A good example would be to go to Lakewood where my dad lives. I remember when my dad was on the board link, when they were putting in the first set of apartments off Gekeler right there towards the end at the bottom of the hill. That was a huge feud. Those things are so regulated and they are regulated by all the houses around it, not by the people who owns the apartments -- just because of that fact because they were afraid such as we are that you are going to get people in there that are not going to respect the place or their surroundings, being our homes - because even if they are higher end apartments, it's kids that need apartments. It's the younger kids that are just starting out, starting to go to school, starting new jobs, starting new careers. And so what do they do. They pair up just like Clock Tower down on State Street. So if we use those things for examples for our decisions, I would hope you would vote against this and understand there is not enough there to support the traffic flow. We already have a dangerous situation that needs to be addressed before this ever needs to be thought of. Yau have to consider our opinions. We moved there and you put that up. I can tell you what. The next person I try to sell my house to, that is going to make a huge influence on their decision. That is not fair to me and I can understand these people buying this land, because it is an investment. You've got to look at the surroundings and the surroundings as of now, is a bedroom community. That is all single homes. How can you constantly conceive coming in and saying "Okay, well it's all single homes but I am going to put a shopping center right here."" I mean, it doesn't happen that way. I just hope you hear our opinions. Thank you. Corrie: Thank you. Blaser: My name is Glenn Blaser, and I live at 345 Old Stone Creek Road in Boise and I'll take my chances on getting beaten up. I'm not opposed to apartments on that corner but I dislike the dishonesty of calling them upscale. If you will consider, take two cardboard boxes and set them ten feet apart, drive your car in between them and try to get out. Those garages are only ten feet wide. Now on a HUD project or any project I know, any garage that is 1 0 feet wide is an abomination. You can't open the door fully. Nothing could be set against the walls but that's what you have planned there. Yau have 128 apartments, you will have about 500 somewhat people. It averages about 4 people per apartment. Look at those two apartments, two of them together, 50 in each apartment and you have a 5-foot road between the two of them. Between the two of them, there are 1 00 people. They are going to be walking down that ( Meridian City Council Meetin~, August 22, 2000 Page 32 ( front walk. Do you think some kid will have a bicycle and another kid will have one and it's going to be easy to pass there? If that is convenient living, then I sure have been misled all of my life. The fire truck coming in from Pine Street, going up there and he can't make a right turn. You can't do it. Now the Fire Chief knows that. They make me when I have my subdivisions. I have got to have it 20-foot or a 3D-foot radius. But here, you are going to turn fire trucks on absolutely a 90-foot, narrow private parking lot. Imagine you're living in one of those apartments and decide to go to the store. Which way are you going to go? There are 500 people in that complex. Y Qu're not going to be the only car on the road. Not all those cars are going to brand new cars. There's going to be some old ones. There's going to be some flat tires. Most of them don't get a garage to park in. They get parking on these open air, so it looks like a car lot. Now AI Gore and Bill Clinton - they promise anybody anything. These people claim they can put in a stop light, put in a sidewalk that goes for half a mile and do it and still come out and make apartments financially feasible. I know there is a fine line between what you can afford to put in to get your money back. Yau can't spend - if they do all these things that they promised on the exterior, it's certainly - Financially the apartment house will not carry itself. There isn't much profit in apartment complexes nowadays. 3 bedroom apartments -- suppose you have a child, and you live there. Where would the child ride his bicycle? On Christmas morning, what would the kid do, go to the clubhouse with his toys or his roller skates? If he's going to roller skate he's got to roller skate in that private driveway and I just have enough apartments to know that -- Well, all I can say is you'll find out. The City will be under constant obligation to have the police out there to keep the peace. I'm not opposed to apartments. I think introduction of limited office space on that tight of space is ludicrous. The apartments would be one thing, limited office is another. To mix the two, you just as well put a ferris . wheel in there somewhere to entertain the crowd. This is not something that would be complementary to the City and would cause the City a lot of trouble. These developers have drawn beautiful pictures, they've spent a lot of money, been competent, made a real wonderful effort to sell you the job and I compliment them on that. But nevertheless, I don't think it is a good project and I would consider it carefully. Just consider yourselves now. You're living in one of those apartments on the fourth floor. There is a window right across. Five feet away, there's another apartment over there with a window. You can see each other through the window. You have no privacy. Somebody gets yelling at his wife, the whole neighborhood will hear it. I oppose it and I don't oppose it because it's apartments, it has damaged our investment in Thunder Creek. Two of the lots we sold, we had to give the money back. We don't think we'll be able to sell them until this is resolved and if it's resolved unfavorably, we'll have to raise chickens on them. deWeerd: Mr. Blaser, since you are the developer of Thunder Creek, did you not know what this was zoned - This piece of property. r. \. Meridian City Council Meeting.. August 22, 2000 Page 33 ( Blaser: I thought it was R-3. I tried to build some townhouses up the street and was turned down. I wanted 12 townhouses on 3 acres and you turned me down. The Planning and Zoning turned it down and I don't care. They can build apartments there, but most apartments in Boise have two parking spots and they are carports. Yau have adequate driving space so they can get in and out. In the case a fire truck came and went around there and got half way in there, you can't get another one in the other way. There is just not access for an ambulance or anything. It just isn't feasible. deWeerd: So you did not know that was zoned for a higher density? Blaser: No and I don't think it really was. deWeerd: It has been since 199- Blaser: I think somebody thought up the idea that it was a possibility that they could get higher density and they followed that out and that's my fault that I didn't know. I'm not opposed to them. I think they've done a wonderful job trying to present it to you but there is a lot lacking there. There's no place for a kid to play. Now, you have got to have some children and you've got to be considerate of what you got because you're going to reap the whirlwind. Corrie: I think you answered the question for her. Thank you very much. deWeerd: Thanks. Corrie: Yes, sir. Pearson: Mr. Mayor and members of the Council. My name is Brian Pearson. I reside at 1158 North Clara in Meridian. Through this process I'm trying to think of things that you haven't heard and I've been through each of these steps and I think that you've heard enough facts. Many of them undisputed each other enough rhetoric and enough salesmanship that you don't need anymore of that. I strongly oppose the project while I commend the efforts of the developers to appease the interests and concerns of some folks because they've certainly stepped up there. No matter how you color it, it's still a duck. It still simply does not flow with the rest of the community development. You can put a stop light there. I am a registered professional engineer in the State of Idaho. I dispute some of the conclusions that have been reached on traffic density patterns. I am concerned that the stoplight is only a partial approach, certainly a step in the right direction, but it doesn't go far enough. It simply doesn't, so I strongly oppose it. I would volunteer that if you elect to go for the project, I would volunteer to stand in the backyard. In keeping with this theme of what hasn't been said, I sit back and I wondered what it would be like in your chairs this evening. I don't envy this. You walk away from here. Everybody walks away. Some folks are disappointed and some folks are celebratory. I sit back and I think, "Okay, lets categorize this r r. Meridian City Council Meetinb August 22, 2000 Page 34 ( thing." I perused the sign-in sheet. I looked at the opposed and the favored. And I know that this isn't truly a democratic process but I do know you take a show of hands periodically and I do know that the democratic process got you all here so the interests of the people here are what's at stake. I know that the Planning and Zoning Commission, as I understand it, looked at this only for the standard, does it meet zoning and regulatory requirements. They couldn't make any subjective judgments as to whether it fits the community or not. Just does it meet the standard and that was the way it was explained to me. They said that it did with one person opposed. So off it came to you. And I know that the will of the people has made a difference here. So I sit back and I listen to the testimony and I've looked at the record. And I think who has testified in favor? There's one broad category and that is the folks that will directly profit from this, several of their friends and even some relatives - direct profit. Before the pool is filled, they have a different address. They are gone. Who has opposed it have been the folks who have to continue to live next door. They have to deal with the consequences, traffic and the consequences of whatever goes wrong here. Those are two broad categories. When you talk about a vested interest and what concerns should be more credible, I stand back and I don't pretend to be able to do your jobs. I wouldn't want to, but that falls out quickly for me. The factors fall out. You've got some folks who want a stop light and favor it for that. Some folks like the mixed development. I'm not opposed to apartments either, but you weigh all the factors here and I think you've heard enough credible factual information - traffic and otherwise to at least raise some serious questions. When you take into account you've got folks who have the biggest stake in this - the ones whose bank accounts aren't altered but who have to live next to it and who bring some very valid concerns. Again, it just falls out for me relatively quickly. I don't say it makes it easy to make a vote, but I just sit in back and make an assessment, it becomes a little more clear to me. So I make an appeal that way. I've tried to use a little logic and some lame hu mor to ask you to maybe consider from that advantage point. Maybe don't but I oppose it. Thanks. And again, you've got my address, and if you want me to stand in that fellow's backyard - Corrie: Thank you. Any others? Atkinson: You know. I love Glen and when Glen was talking, all I could think of was that song "You can't roller skate in a buffalo heard. But anyway, I decided not to dwell on that. My name is Erma Atkinson. I live at 1124 North Lightning. I would like to join Mrs. Wilder in the "donlt like it but could tolerate it" category. This makes me fair game for both of those who favor it and oppose it. And I may need Chief Gordon's protection in leaving the building tonight. I think you all received the August 11 th essay that reiterates what the developer has already stated, that they would provide. I would strongly encourage you - and I have no doubt where the vote's going. I mean we know that. I would strongly encourage you if you choose to pass this, that you make those conditions that need to be met before a Certificate of Occupancy is issued on any of the buildings on this property. Certainly the traffic signal and the alignment of the unpaved portion of M c-d. C" C., ( . en Ian ity ounell Meeting August 22, 2000 Page 35 (- . Ten Mile is critical as are the sidewalks for the safety of the residence. We are just as amazed as Mr. Bailey is that Ada County Highway Commissioners agreed to dead end Lightning there. Of course, we're delighted but we were just kind of flabbergasted two weeks ago at their meeting. And finally I would like to thank Brian for his offer to be the focal point in Walter's back yard determining whether you can see someone from a third floor balcony. I think that is probably more practical than my idea which was to rent the upper units only to blind individuals who couldn't see my yard. It's getting late. It's past my bedtime. I would encourage you if you pass this to make those conditions on this proposal. Thank you. Questions. deWeerd: No. Thank you for all the information you've provided, Erma. Atkinson: And I've got a lot of notoriety out of this too. I'm not sure if it's good or bad. Anderson: My name is Todd Anderson, 2492 West Willard Street. I see a few problems with this. Although I was born here in Idaho, I spent about 1 0 years in Los Angeles. I lived in a place like this with six roommates and six cars and we were in and out all the time. I have some - I moved out where all the other policemen did way out from Los Angeles into a single housing town - but I have some concerns here. Maybe the fire chief would like to address then. If there is a fire here or here, I just don't see how accessible those will be. Being from Los Angeles, another recommendation that if this did go through, put a gated entryway that would slow down some of the traffic. That way we'd be like Los Angeles and some of the other big cities. I came to Meridian because I liked the lifestyle. It is mostly single family homes. That's what people come to Meridian for. There are a lot of people that like apartments, but they don't come for apartments in Meridian, they come for single family homes. That's what we're about. That's all. Corrie: Thank you, Todd. deWeerd: Thanks. Copeland: My name is Jackie Copeland, 2587 West Ebb Tide. I live on the corner of Ocean and Ebb Tide and my concern is the overcrowding of the schools. I have two children in school and one that will start in 6 years. I heard them talk about the sidewalks that they would put in and the crosswalk that would be at Cherry Land and Ten Mile. My son goes to Chaparral. That is a whole block away from where he should be crossing the road. If he were to cross the road to go to Chaparral, why send him a whole block out of their way in the winter. I just don't see that. They talk about Ten Mile being the proper area for commercial. What about Franklin? The majority of Franklin is zoned commercial and it would be a perfect place for an apartment complex for a small mini-mall they would like to build. Living on Ten Mile, I see all the traffic and my back Me;idian City Council Meetin~: August 22, 2000 Page 36 ( fence has almost been hit several times because of the kids coming through our neighborhood to avoid the stop sign after school. That's pretty much all I have. Thank you. Corrie: I hope, Chief - that you are listening to this - crossing through neighborhoods. I'm sure you are. Wade: My name is Lisa Wade, 1091 North Haven Cove. My husband is in law enforcement. We chose Meridian because of the single-family dwellings. He has had problems in the county where he works with high-density areas being higher crime area. I don't want that in my back yard and that's why we moved to Meridian. He also is a traffic specialist for Ada County and feels that the stoplight -- we need something there. That's not going to cure the problem for that many cars coming in there. There will be crashes at that corner with that many cars. I just want you to know I'm opposed to it. Thank you. Corrie: Thank you, Lisa. Quallin: Mayor and City Council. My name is Troy Quallin, 2467 West Wavecourt. 11m highly opposed to it. Pretty much for the rest of the reasons everybody else is. What I havenlt really heard addressed is the office retail space that will be up front. I'm afraid that it will just open the door to the other developers on the south side, across the street, for the people that were highly in favor, to open up commercially. As far as the developer - They're in the northeast by the two townhouses up there. We'll try not to use that but it is open for a road later on and we'll try not to. It will open up. I think we are just going to lose our single family home dwellings - Too many people, too fast, too quick. That was my concern. Long: My name is Vaughn Long, 2975 West Forecast Street. Several concerns about this, and they're different - I think in what's been said. Several weeks ago my wife and I took a walk at the 8-10 a.m. time, so the rush traffic is gone. We walked down to Ocean Street and then across Pine to Ten Mile Road, then up Ten Mile to Forecast, and I was amazed at how much reckless traffic there was at that time. And we're walking on the side though - on the dirt - not on the pavement but on the dirt and they're going very close to where we are at and there's not cars coming the other way. It's like - We own the road and we're going to drive here. And that concerns me very significantly when you're dealing with people that live there. Even if you got a sidewalk, driving close to a sidewalk is too close when youlve got little kids involved. Anybody in high school down - I consider high school kids little kids quite often. Another concern that I have, we live right up behind this place and we will be able to see those complexes from our place. I think that mentally I donlt mind seeing them, but physically, I do. To see that complex from behind my house is a bother to me, and that's just a visual thing so you can't make your decision based on my visual. But seeing the cars coming out from Gray Cloud Road, bothers me because that is just two houses (r r- u_ Meridian City Council Meeting August 22,2000 Page 37 away from where I'm at and they go left and right. My mother is having a house built right at the end of Gray Cloud Road. If you go straight instead of turning on Forecast, you run into her garage. That bothers me a lot. She's a little older than I am. I've been accused of being her husband, but that's not quite true. That does bother me a lot - to have her sitting right there at that traffic place, when you know you have got people that will come out of there and when you only got - *** End of Side 3 *** Long: -- you know you are going to get a big percentage coming out of that road and going in that road to be there. And for those two or three people that will live on that road before you get into the apartment complex, that's a lot of cars going back and forth for little kids - for any kids, but little kids specifically. Going past our house right now, with the way the road turns around, they kept one corner, and then the road turns and they hit the other corner. There's not a turn-around of the cars. I sit and watch that day after day and they just don't make those turns around the corners. When you increase the number of cars going there as they've spoken about when Pine was closed earlier and the high school students came up Ocean, down Forecast and out to Ten Mile Road, they did the same thing. I'm concerned about that. I'd like to see a stop sign at Forecast and Gray Cloud road to stop some of that speed going on around there and give us an opportunity to get the cars to slow down. The last thing that I want to mention is the commercial traffic setting in there. I have a really hard time with the commerce sitting right next to the apartments. There is too much business in an apartment complex with just the apartment people to have them running back and forth to the business that is there - whatever the business is. And we don't know yet what they're going to be. There's some ideas and there's some thoughts, but there's no comments at all what's exactly going to be in that. That concerns me. What kind of business are you going to have there and who is going to be involved with that? If you have a deal that the high school kids can run there and get something to eat, that just quadruples the number of cars that you have coming in and out with just that area which stops a lot of the traffic going down Pine Street. That's alii have to say. Any questions? Corrie: Thank you. Martin: I think I should've followed Brian because my name is Steve Martin, 2885 West Forecast. I strongly oppose this project. A lot of issues are not being addressed here tonight and I'll bring to the floor because I have got over 1 0 years of property management experience in doing this particular thing. Right now what is not being talked about over at Aspen Hills is that you've got all these beautiful garages that now become what we call "lock and store". That is an aspect and I have a dozen friends that live in Aspen not using their garages other than to store things that they cannot put in their apartment because they are transient and they are only there for the six or twelve month lease. So if you're M~idian City Council Meetin~r'-- August 22, 2000 Page 38 ( consuming so many cars - you're consuming so many cars per apartment, if they are not using what they are paying for a garage to park a car in, they are going to be utilizing the open space and it will become very crowded. The things that we're also not talking about here - I have heard a lot of people talk to them into the meetings. I am now in highway construction. I deal daily with Ada County Highway District, Idaho Department of Transportation and I'll tell you right now. We have Phase II of the Y for the next two years that's going to consume Ada County. After Phase II, you are going to have the expansion of Cole and Overland to Broadway and possibly Gowen. That is a two-phase project right now proposed that will go into place right after the Y project. Ten Mile has been discussed for a long time and I hate to tell you, but it keeps getting put in the future plan. We are not going to see Ten Mile widened, Pine widened and I think we have a major traffic issue. I don't mind apartments, but when I was in property management, I had a difficult time because my job was going in and getting rid of the trash. I'm not talking about trashcans that are behind fences. I'm talking about people. I'd have to leave my home and physically move into a vacant apartment to help the managing people get rid of the people that were no longer wanted in there. The bottom line is five and ten years from now, when the dollar speaks and your vacancy rate is high, you will rent to anyone that will fill out an application because your job in property management is to fill the units at whatever cost it is. We know a development company has a number in investors. What the development job is to do to, within so many years is take the owners of this development and move them to another project. It could be offices. It could be apartments again. They take somebody else they got in their organization of investors and they bring them up and move them into this to buy it on paper. We don't see a lot of that transferred because it's a property management organization. The new people coming in are stretched to the limit and usually don't have all the money to make the modifications, change carpet, they go with cheaper appliances. The next thing you know, it's run down. Myself, personally -- Bringing office buildings in there, I know somebody here is in favor of that. I say get rid of them, change the parking around, reduce the height of the apartments from 3 to 2-story and add additional buildings in. You still aren't going to get the 136 units, but you will have something. It will be better than what you have there now. But you will. This is a good project. I think everybody who has done their work has done a marvelous job. I have managed these in metropolitan areas of Minneapolis and St. Paul. I'm telling you that these things don't work. They call them high high-rise, high expensive, or good luxury apartments, but I hate - and hopefully you won't be here, Mr. Mayor, ten years from now. But I hope you and I aren't sitting here ten years from now discussing the problems that the future police chief is going to have with this area. Even being a person I had to do to go in there, I had cherry bombs taped to my windows and blew up my apartment windows. I had a brand new car and had all four of my tires slashed several times. It's going to happen but not now - in the future. Any questions? f (~. M .d" C'" C 11II 11II en Ian ity ounell Meetlng-. August 22, 2000 Page 39 ( Corrie: I have a question. Martin: Yes, sir. Corrie: How do you know how long I'm going to be here? Even my cardiologist hasn't gone that far. Martin: We spoke about 21 people being in favor last week and so many opposed, when you decided to change the meeting, a lot of the people that were opposed went out the door. A number of us that walked petitions before, you have on record a petition with over 300+ people that are against this project and we stopped walking petitions two months ago. And I just hope that the Mayor and the City Council as elected officials that you pay attention to the citizens out there and their opinion of this particular complex. Thank you. Corrie: Okay. Well I am not going to say it's getting late, but it's getting late. Everybody is welcome to speak. Walter: Mr. Mayor, Council people. My name is Reese Walter, 1148 North Lightning Place. I was the one you talked to about the Comprehensive Plan that you mentioned earlier. Dave Bailey and Vickie Welker have tried to listen to us and to our concerns. I live right next door to Mrs. Atkinson, which is right there on Lightning Place. If you were to look at the map, it's right there where the turn- around is on Lightning Place, right where the word "Valeri" is. I was the one that Dave Bailey said that from looking from my northern-most yard, I could not see anybody and they could not see into my yard. Mr. Bailey had told me that they had 10 feet to play with on the heights of the buildings because of the water table. He told me it could be sunken 5-8 feet, but obviously hasn't come up with the final stats on that yet. That was one of the concerns they heard from us. They also heard the sidewalk issue down to Ten Mile and closing off Lightning Place and doing something a little different with Gray Cloud to slow down some of the traffic. Driving here, coming down Pine, I was noticing all the new developments coming down Pine on the north side of Pine, have placed in sidewalks. I'm not sure. I don't believe that there are sidewalks on Pine. There are? Okay. Good. So that was another concern of mine. A big concern of mine is modifications to the plan. I know you can come back as a developer and say, "we ran out of money and can't afford to put in the light, sidewalk, or the Fire Department won't let us put in an island so we're just going to make it go straight through." That is a big concern of mine. I would hope that you would make the Certificate of Occupancy pending on whether these new modifications to the plan that were developed by the neighbors, be withheld if they are not met. I already know what the vote is going to be. I just hope you can hear those concerns. Thanks. Corrie: Okay. Thank you. M~idian City Council Meatin': August 22, 2000 Page 40 {' Clark: My name is Jody Clark, 2562 West Ebb Tide. Corrie: What's your first name again? Clark: Jody. I just wanted to reiterate the point that I think it all comes down to, the monetary aspects. When you hear the opposing sides, all the people for seem to live in the direct areas that future developments could take place. When you hear all the communication from those that are against, it seems that we have come together as the neighborhood being against this whole thing because of the quality of life that we're used to living, and the traffic problems. The traffic problems -- again, I think it has been reiterated many times. Those of us in that area - my husband came up here and spoke. ACHD has been going through plans trying to get neighborhood signatures because of all the problems we have had with people cutting through our neighborhood. This would just be an increased problem, again as you've heard many times. I think it all comes down to monetary aspects. Most of those going for it, it's money in their pocket and not affecting the how they live. Mr. LeBunyon himself spoke of - you know, I think it's a good thing. In a few years, he even spoke himself about leaving. And I think that's what it comes down to is the people that don't have some personal gain or want to have part of those office buildings there. I just kind of wanted to reiterate. Corrie: If you don't mind, I think we might take a five minute break here for the Council to try and catch their breath a little bit. If that meets the approval for Council, I'll call a recess until 25 until ten. Bird: Thank you. deWeerd: Thanks. BREAK at 9:25 p.m. Reconvene at 9:37 p.m. Corrie: If I can have your attention please. The question was raised to me at the break, could somebody state a second time if they had something else they wanted to do and the answer is no. If I do it for one, then we get into a free for all here. Protocol is that You have one shot at it and make it a good one. I think you all have been very good at this, even though you feel like you're excited or you're nervous. From this point, you're doing an excellent job both sides. Believe me. With that, I will reconvene the meeting and ask if there is anymore testimony from the group opposed? Lawber: My name is Lowell Lawber, 3431 West Elm Creek Drive, in Parkside Creek Subdivision. We didn't know anything about this, we weren't notified. Of course, we are a little more than 300 feet away. We're a block away. But it does affect us too. To me, this is neither the time nor place to put this thing. This M~dian City Council MeetinJ August 22, 2000 Page 41 (' should be Cherry Lane out west someplace where there is a 4-lane road going by it already. If not, they have to wait ten or twenty years to get to Ten Mile to be a 4-lane road. It is just the wrong place, it doesn't fit with what's around. When we bought our home, I knew Albertson's was going to be there and that was fine. I bought it knowing that. I didn't know Ten Mile was going to be commercial. Had I known that, I never would have bought there in the first place. Last year we were here talking about rock cording they were going to put down South Ten Mile and here we are talking about apartments. It doesn't make any sense to me. Thank you. Corrie: Yep. Thank you. Anyone else? Walter: My name is Andrea Walter, 1148 North Lightning Place. I can say that Vickie and Mr. Bailey and those "for" the project, have put a lot of effort into the project to accommodate most of the neighbors that are immediately effected by it. I do have some concerns and I did address it to Vickie prior to coming up here. Last week I had asked her about phasing in the project, different steps they were going to take to complete the project. I do have some concerns, knowing this may go through, I'd like to know the different steps, their thoughts and plans on how they are going to do this. I did talk to Shari Stiles earlier and Vickie and they have given me numerous different ways that, once they get the approval for the zoning, they can legally sell off different phases of this project to other investors. I don't know if that can be addressed to ease some of my concerns with it being from their hands. They have done a lot to accommodate us, and to then have it taken over by somebody else and have to go through the process again. I know modifications can be made when approved and I'd like that addressed because if we all go into this saying "Okay, this is the plan. This is what's set" and then they can come back with modifications. What kind of modifications can they make? To what degree - does this go back to Planning and Zoning? Does this just go back to the City Council? I think those are kind of some things that I would like addressed. I'm really not for the apartments just because the fact I moved into the area for the bedroom community. I like the single-family residential homes and that was my idea. I am against this but I would like those issues addressed before a decision is made. Corrie: Okay. Thank you. deWeerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. deWeerd. deWeerd: There has been a number of questions. It might help before we have further testimony, that some of these get addressed. I do know that there was one question about "what is a conditional use permit?" There are the questions about tying the conditions to the development and how to assure those conditions are set in concrete." I believe that this would be the ideal time to ask Meridian City Council Meetin~ August 22, 2000 Page 42 ( Shari and our city attorney to address some of those questions that have come up. There also has been a question on "what is allowed in an LO zone?" and if some of these questions could be answered right now, I think this would be an appropriate time to be doing that. Corrie: Well, I'm not too sure it is. We are still in public testimony. Let's get all the testimony and then we will answer the questions as they come up. I hate to disagree with you but we still haven't heard from everybody yet. deWeerd: You don't always agree with me. That's alright. Corrie: Okay. Anyone else to issue testimony? You might get your wish then. Walters: My name is Jeff Walters, 2496 West Forecast. I've been to a couple of these meetings in the past. I would just like to get my name on the sheet. I did fill out the sheet. I'm not totally against apartments, but I am against the numbers. I think that is a lot of people to add to that corner. Like a lot of people had said. Just with the traffic, it doesn't matter if there's a light or not. It will just be a two-lane road with the high school and everything else that's already there. I think you're asking for a nightmare, which is congestion alone. Not to mention the schools being overloaded and I also have another question that I don't know that's been asked yet. I've asked other people and they don't know either. If this has been voted down twice, what are we doing here again? Is this a 3 out of 5 thing? If this gets approved now, what are we supposed to think - that there's going to be another one of these and we might have another chance of voting it down. I'm just confused why we are here again I guess. I'm not trying to make fun of anybody and it might just be that I'm ignorant about something that's happened or gone on but I feel that we've got repeated letters and repeated meetings, it's been voted down. We've all thought "Okay. Now we can relax. We don't have to go to more of these meetings." And then we come again and it's been there has been a change of this or somebody has changed their mind. I thought once you voted, you voted. You were done and you go home and everybody - that's how it goes, so that's all. Thank you. Corrie: Let me give you a really quick thumbnail here on this. The first vote was 2 for, 2 against and I voted no. Then one of the Council Members changed his mind and wanted more information, which he can do and he did it. We are doing it now. It's only turned down once. Now, he asked for that. He is getting it tonight and if it's turned down tonight, it's turned down. If it's approved, it's approved. I hope that it will be done. What's the problem? We don't know. There's always the court of law and anybody can do what they want to there so just to let you know - It was done once. Now this is the second time because of a Council Members desire to see what it is. ( Meridian City Council Meeting- August22,2000 Page 43 ( Walters: Just to clarify really quick - if that happens again and somebody else decides they need further clarification, we might be doing this again. That is what you are saying? Corrie: Probably not. Walters: Probably not. Corrie: I don't know about - Bird: I think he is also stating about the one we had a year ago when Cheri and Tammy weren't on here. After that was turned down, they had to go back, redesign and completely come through as a new project. I believe that's what you were doing. And it took - am I not right - a negative vote to ask for reconsideration. I'd let the attorney explain that to you. Nichols: The Council decision that was voted on before, May 16th, that decision was not final because the Council had not yet adopted written Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law and Decision and Order. Before those findings were adopted, one of the Council members who voted with the majority, asked to reconsider the decision. That is the parliamentary process that it has gone through, it has to be someone that voted with the majority to ask for reconsideration - not somebody who was on the losing side of that motion but someone that was on the majority side of the motion can ask for reconsideration. The Council moved to reconsider its decision, which necessitated to opening the matter back up for additional public testimony, public hearing to add to what had already been received before. And so it's the same application that was voted on in May, subject to the modifications that have been proposed by the developer here. As long as that land is vacant, it is subject to land use applications. If this one is denied, and if the owners or someone with whom the owner has a contractual relationship as a developer wants to come back and propose another development for that property, it can be done. As long as that property is vacant, it is subject to someone wanting to do something with it and jumping through the land use hoops to bring it before the government body for a decision on that proposed land use application. Although Councilman Anderson moved for reconsideration, that motion was seconded and approved. It was an act by this governing body to reconsider, it wasn't simply his sole action or he decided on his own to have this thing. It was this governing body that decided to reconsider. Corrie: Other testimony? Hearing none, Mrs. deWeerd has asked questions. Shari, do you want to question to her and then let her answer what it is? deWeerd: What is allowed in an LO zone? Stiles: The City's Zoning and Development Ordinance sets out the permitted uses within each of the zones. It shows whether a use is permitted or a conditional use or outright prohibited. And I know that The Council has in some (/ ... Meridian City Council Meetin9... August 22, 2000 Page 44 ( t. . instances annexed property under s certain designation, but specifically prohibited some uses such as bars or junkysrds - those kinds of things that may otherwise be permitted. A lot of things are allowed in an LO with a conditional use, such as apartment houses, or a daycare. Some of the permitted uses are accounting services, administrative services -- any type of office use. It actually shows radio and TV broadcasting is permitted, churches, medical/dental and optical clinics, banks, medical/dental and optical labs, libraries, museums, mortuaries, public and Quixote uses, publishing and printing facilities, and then there are several uses that are under the conditional use. I don't think any of those really are going to be a problem. They are going to have to come back through for conditional use. For example a convenience store is conditional use and the way this is set up is not going to support a convenience store. Bars and alcoholic establishments - they are allowed into the LO with the Conditional Use Permit. I know there haven't been any direct representations of what kinds of uses are going to be here specifically. Retail stores are specifically prohibited in this LO zone. For example if they wanted to maybe have a Hallmark Store or something like that, that would be a prohibited use and they couldn't even get a conditional use permit for it. Restaurants would require a conditional use permit. A conditional use permit means that they are going to meet all the representations they have made in these hearings. Those are conditions that are attached to the land. Even if they got this approved and sold it in its entirety to someone else, that person would still be required to meet all the conditions of approval. Significant changes - Let's say if they started changing the layout significantly -- We do allow for minor modifications but this plan doesn't really allow for much modification without it being a significant change. Does that answer your question? deWeerd: There were also questions about posting notices. I know there has been a lot of concern that people haven't been noticed. I do know that one gentleman referred to maybe he wasn't in the 300 feet area. Perhaps you can discuss the posting on the property and the legal requirements for posting notices on this. Stiles: The City of Meridian doesn't have really a separate notice requirement other than the State Code requirement. The State Code is very vague. It doesn't have anything requiring where on the property, how large it should be. I know the City of Eagle has put into effect a new ordinance that requires very large signs that are readily seen by everyone driving by. What the City has been using, 11X17 yellow cardboard notices that they post on the property. I believe they would post one on Pine and another on Ten Mile. They have met the requirements for posting the property. Corrie: As I said earlier tonight, the developer will have the last to answer the questions that have come up in the testimony. So who wants to answer this? ~ ..' Meridian City Council Meetint August 22, 2000 Page 45 ( Bailey: Mr. Mayor, Council members. David Bailey again. I did want to make one comment that Mrs. deWeerd said sometimes people don't agree with me. I have that same problem in my job. Some people don't always agree with me. We keep going. I don't think, I won't address every issue in detail because a lot of these issues we've talked about before and we've talked about in significant detail. Specifically the traffic and we believe this project will have a positive affect on the traffic around there. The people who have dealt with us in the hearings and the people who have talked to us over a long period of time and we've worked with - We've been able to show why we believe that - not convince them all, but certainly show them why we think this is an improvement, even with the additional traffic it may produce in this area. As far as Mr. Blaser, I appreciate him giving us the fourth story because now we can definitely make the project work well. The one issue he brought up that I really want to address is the fire access to this site. The site has been reviewed by the City. We currently have a question about the turn around in the northeast corner and we have to resolve that issue with the Fire Department obviously to their satisfaction to make that work. Other than that, the radiuses in the site meet the fire code and the widths of the driveways meet the fire code for the access to the site for fire fighting purposes. There are 2 and 1/3 parking spaces per unit in this project, not including the parking spaces that are the limited office portion of the project. That is more than on any project that you have recently approved in Meridian. Most of those are close to "2 to 1." And this is 2.3 parking spaces per unit available in here. As far as the height of the building, I may have misled Mr. Walter as far as what we can do with the building. We can lower the building about 4 or 5 feet and we did include in the package, there is a simple diagram showing how we would measure the distance from the yard - the site distance to that building, so that we could make sure Mr. Walters is accepting that the way we are doing that. I guess that needs to be approved before we get a building permit is the point. We need to look at that issue and make sure that we're satisfied. We'll get a building permit. Because I don't think the test of walking up on that floor and seeing if we can see in the backyard is effective because it's really too late to make that test at that point. So we're going to have to determine some way where we can verify that prior to the Building Permit being issued. Would like to point out there are about 25 people who testified in opposition to this. I counted 8 of them that we have worked with in the past that we had talked to - that have been at our hearings on a regular basis and that I recognize coming up here. There are several of those in the "I can tolerate" category. I think that the discussion that we have had with the people who have talked to us and worked with us as we went through this project has obviously been beneficial to both of us. We've changed things to make sure that we meet their requirements and some of them have understood why we're doing the things that we are and why it works for the area. So I think there's been good exchange in that area. As far as phasing the project, we are not proposing to phase this project. What that means as far as I understand is that when we start on this project before plat being recorded, we would either have to construct or bond the improvements as if it were a single-phase project. So those would all have to be Meri~ian City Council Meetin~~'u, August 22, 2000 Page 46 ( completed in the one phase. So we are not proposing that we leave a portion of it undeveloped and develop the other portion. We are proposing to develop the entire portion and plat the entire project in one phase and that's the way it's been presented. I want to talk about one more thing very quickly. Mr. Pearson brought up a point of the Planning & Zoning said they could only make their decision based on the specific standards that are allowed - what's allowed in the zone and they couldn't put any ideas into what it did. It either did or didn't make it. I think that one of the biggest fears of developers and the fears of property owners is that a Councilor a Planning and Zoning ,would do other than that - that they would base their decision on a project on how they feel, or whether they like or dislike the project or whether they like or dislike the person who owns the property. That is the reason why we have this thick book of zoning ordinances and we have all the rules and of course, it's a quasi-political process. It's something that we have to think about and we have to use our judgment in doing. But to do something based on just how we feel about it, I think strikes fear into the hearts of property owners and it's contrary to what we do. We know there are rules to follow. We know that there's things that need to be done from the developer's end, anyway, and that's what we try to do and we think it's only fair that when you go to that point where you have met the requirements and looked at the requirements and looked at the requirements of how something goes that it's fair that a project should be approved at that point. I may be stepping out of line in saying that but I really think that's the basis of our system. That is the only way we can make sure everything is fair for everybody in setting the rules and then we all follow them. I stand for any questions if you have them. Bird: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: The height of that building seems to be a problem. Everybody wants to talk about it. What kind of height - I realize you're probably not the architect but what kind of heights are we going to have on these townhouses? Bailey: On the townhouses or the apartments? Bird: The apartments. Bailey: On the apartments, the building height as shown in the architectural drawings is approximately 34 feet. The height limit is 36 for the zone. But that's from ground level to the top of the building. Bird: That's from 0 to 34. Bailey: Right - from ground level outside the building. Bird: Okay. That's alii have. Mer;dian City Council Meetin& August 22, 2000 Page 47 ( Corrie: Any other questions? DeWeerd: I have none. I have one. Do you know what you're planning on the office retail space in there? Bailey: I don't think we have any specific tenants planned for that space. Corrie: Any other questions? Council, you've heard the testimony for both for and against. Before you close the public hearing, is there any questions or discussion? Bird: I have none, Mayor. Corrie: Okay. Then I will entertain a motion to close the public hearing. McCandless: So moved. Bird: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: I have a motion on the floor. I need a second then we will discuss it. Bird: Second. Corrie: Motion been made and seconded. Discussion? Bird: Motion to close all three? Corrie: Yes. Any other discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion to close all three public hearings, say aye. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSTAINED. Corrie: Motion has been accepted and the public hearing is closed. Discussion of Council. Bird: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: Before I make a motion, I feel for the people that live around there, but I happen to be on the Council when their developments came through and I had a whole bunch of people from around their area that didn't want them to have their houses out there. This is an ongoing thing. I believe the developer has tried to make this acceptable to everyone around. I believe she went the extra mile and I I~""..-..... .... { Meridian City Council Meeting August 22, 2000 Page 48 ( certainly appreciate that. With that, I will make a motion that we approve the request for annexation and zoning of 12.73 acres from RT to LO and R-15 zones for Vickie Welker, Gold River Companies, Inc. for proposed Valeri Heights Subdivision at the northeast corner of West Pine Avenue and North Ten Mile Road with the recommendations of staff and testimony and Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law and Decision of Order. Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made to approve the request for annexation and zoning to have the Attorney to prepare Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law in the ordinance as such. Is there a second? deWeerd: Second. Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded. We are now open for discussion. McCandless: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. McCandless. McCandless: I listened very closely to the testimony on both sides tonight. My biggest concern has not been solved, that is the two lane roads. Regardless of traffic lights, turn lanes, those two lane roads out there just can't take this kind of traffic. Ten Mile already has a lot of traffic on it and it's not going to lessen it at all. I have heard testimony that it's going to be widened to four lanes. There is no guarantee when that's going to happen, anymore than there's a guarantee that there's going to be an interchange on Ten Mile, because I have heard talk now about the interchange being put on Black Cat. I can't see putting a project this size when your roads just can't handle it. Now, recently, I voted against a project that I liked a lot better than this one and I have no objection with this one except what I said. That was the one where they were going to - up there on Overland and Locust Grove. They were going to put an ice rink and things like that out there and I thought that would be great for Meridian. But the roads out there can't handle that kind of thing either. Let's fix the roads and do the basic thing first and then build your projects. Based on that, I am going to vote "no" on this motion. Corrie: Any other discussion? DeWeerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. deWeerd. deWeerd: I guess I'm the only one that you haven't heard from. I too, have been standing on the other side of that podium very nervous about addressing the City Council and the P and Z and now that I sit on both I can empathize with what has ( Meridian City Council Meeting August 22, 2000 Page 49 ( been said tonight. I have seen that with ACHD, development come first and then the roads. We have seen some action on Overland since we did approve Resolution Park, that there is talk to move up the improvement of that land. A lot of it is being paid for with impact fees. Our community gets new roads when we have the impact fees to pay for it. I almost was a fence hitter on this too. I know you all thought it was a done deal"when you saw Ron Anderson not here. I was in favor of it. I think it's a good project. I am a proponent of mixed use. But you know what? I never thought Erma would go to that middle lane. I think I know how hard she has worked with Vickie and getting her - and Erma, I am not using you as a scapegoat at all. I am very impressed with the amount of work that's been going through this on both sides. And I know a lot of the testimony that we've heard tonight is new and that you haven't had the opportunity to meet with this developer to get some of your concerns addressed as well like some of the other residents who have talked tonight. With all that's said, I still feel like this is a worthwhile project. Development like Thunder Creek - I think Mr. Blaser pretty much said it. He would not be putting those sidewalks all the way to Cherry Lane. He can't with the single-family housing complex. Our plan is for high- density mixed residential and it over-satisfies every single ordinance that we have. They have gone above and beyond and they've done everything we've asked. *** End of Side 4 *** deWeerd: -- I guess I would have a question of Council. Since this was denied, the only Findings or information that I have is the denial. I don't have any of the conditions that were recommended by P & Z for annexation, a CUP, or anything else. So I don't know how we can even approve that without the recommendations in front of us to know what they say or to even assure that these new conditions that have been brought up since our last Findings can be included in them. Corrie: Mr. Nichols. Nichols: Mr. Mayor, members of the Council, I have my file, and I believe those things are in here, and you're welcome to go through them. I can tell you that if this motion is approved I can tell you what I'll do. What I'll do is go back to the recommendations that came from the Planning and Zoning Commission and incorporate those into the Findings, and I would believe that the motion carries with it the requirement to add the additional conditions which the developer stated they would do with regard to this project. Those would be in there. You know that our practice has been to try to get these proposed Findings out to you hopefully by the Thursday before the meeting at which they're on the agenda so that you have an opportunity to review them. Then you'd take issue with them or add to those proposed Findings. It's not a done deal until those Findings are adopted. If you want to handle a different procedure with this one, if this motion is approved, I'll make it all fit. In other words, if you want to have proposed . c. (- Meridian City Council Meeting. August 22, 2000 Page 50 ( Findings instead of having them on the Consent Agenda and have them on the regular agenda and go down through them item by item if you wish. Any way you want to do it. deWeerd: And the annexation and zoning, is there a Development Agreement required? Nichols: Councilwoman deWeerd, Mayor, members of the Council, typically we do Development Agreements on every annexation and zoning. The only one we haven't done it on recently, I think, was the Randy Ware development where it was already zoned such and it was such a small parcel and already had the water and sewer to it. Corrie: Any other discussion? I believe I heard a call for the question; is that correct? Bird: Yes, sir. Would you like to give your (inaudible)? Go ahead. Corrie: I can give you my opinion for what it's worth. I think the development has come a long way from what it was presented to us in the first place. I see a few problems inside. I also agree with Cherie McCandless that we are going to have some very difficult problems with traffic. ACHD is always, seems like, they are always behind, and the taking of the testimony of one of the engineers here, I would like to have him go on the ACHD Board. It might help a little bit. I think we're going to have some problems with traffic. I know that as the City grows, we've gone from 9,000 to 40,000 people in 8 years and we're going to go to probably 80,000 before another 15 years. That's a lot of people. We have to put them somewhere. Everybody here that has testified is right. I don't know if there is a right or a wrong answer to one of these, but you asked for my opinion, and that is it. I'm not giving you an opinion of whether to vote for it or against it at this point. It's not going to be my prerogative tonight. I think that we do need to make sure that the developer of this project holds true to what they said. I have no question that they probably will. I just need to make sure that the City watches very closely at this if you do vote for it. So that's where I'm coming from right now. So the question has been called for. deWeerd: Mr. Mayor, I just absolutely hate to continue this, but you know what? I just feel that everyone has known where Keith and I have come from on this project. It was recalled because Ron Anderson wanted to reconsider it. I just hate to have the impression here that this was a railroad job. I don't want to strain the developers along any longer or the residents for that matter. I think we've all had to do this long enough. I don't know. I don't even think I can vote right now even though I feel comfortable with my vote because I know it's been raised about, well, Ron Anderson re-opened this, you know. Isn't it fair that he's here? The City Attorney has responded to it, but I just don't want the impression that I don't want some bad impressions out there. ( Meridian City Council Meeting. August22,2000 Page 51 Corrie: Okay, with that said, the question has been called for. City Clerk, would you please - Bird: Go ahead. If you want to pull it, we'll pull it. I'm not trying to railroad it. Nichols: Mr. Mayor, I haven't studied parliamentary procedure long enough to know, but the motion is on the floor, and I suppose if the moving Council member and the second will pull it off and table it that it can be done because it's not a final decision - Corrie: Even though the question has been called for - Nichols: If I can say, if I'm going to err, I'm going to err on the side of caution. McCandless: Mr. Mayor, I just wanted to remind the Council that if they wait for Mr. Anderson to come back, unless you call a special meeting for a vote, I'm going to be gone next Council meeting, so you're going to still be - Bird: Go to the 19th. I realize, and Mayor, I will call for a question. I'll act out of stupidity which that isn't hard to do. If you two feel that way, I have no problem pulling my motion at this point. I just feel sorry for developers and stuff here. This thing has been jacked around for over a year that I know of, and every time we've asked them to go change something, they've changed it. They've redone it. We keep changing it. Before we can get four people here is September 19th. At least we don't have to worry about traffic until next spring because they won't have time to get started on it now. I'll pull my motion if the second wants to pull. Then you may make one to continue it. Do you want to pull your second? I pull my motion, Mayor. Corrie: The original motion has been pulled. The second is pulled. So I'll introduce for the secondary motion. Bird: We'll just continue it. Corrie: We've closed the hearing. Nichols: Mr. Mayor, if I may. If Councilman Anderson is going to participate in this decision, then since he's not on record as whether he's made any ex parte contacts or what those were, then you need to reopen the public hearing. You need to continue the public hearing to the 19th solely for the purpose of stating on the record what ex parte contacts if any he's had, for him to ask any questions of the developer he has with regard to the record that he has reviewed; the letters, testimony and so forth so that he is fully apprised and then because of that, disclosure of any ex parte contacts he may have had we would also have to give ( Meridian City Council Meeting' August22,2000 Page 52 ( opportunity to people to respond if they had questions with regard to those contacts. This is the legacy of that Foster Furniture decision. deWeerd: I'm sorry. I just made a mess of this, but, you know, I've heard it stated in several members that testified. With that doubt there, I just do not feel comfortable moving forward until Mr. Anderson can participate in the vote. Bird: Make the motion to continue the public hearing, then. Corrie: We'll have to have a motion to open the public hearing again. Bird: On all three of it. Then we'll have to notice it again. DeWeerd: Not continue the public hearing. Bird: How can we continue when we closed it? Corrie: We have to re-open the public hearing and then continue it. That's the reason right there. deWeerd: Well, I've stated how I feel. What does the rest of the Council feel? I can re-open this if that's the general feeling, or do you want to just get this done with? Corrie: Okay. Wait a minute. I understand what your motion is here, but we've got a parliamentary thing here that we've got to get cleared up. So the original motion has been pulled. The second has been pulled. I need a motion right now -- Either to open the public hearing and then to continue that public hearing or you can re-do the motion, take your vote, and get it over with. McCandless: Mr. Mayor, could I ask our attorney something? Corrie: Sure can. McCandless: I stated a minute ago that I wouldn't be here on the next meeting, but I have disclosed and I have heard the testimony. I don't - you all know where I'm standing. I guess. If you wanted to hear it on the next meeting, and you're going to continue the public hearing which I disagree with, but if you're going to do that, then can you have it while I'm gone? Bird: You can't vote. Same situation. McCandless: That's true. Bird: Mr, Mayor, we have to, as I understand from the attorney, we have closed this. We can't continue it. We've got to re-open it. Then we'll have it noticed ( Meridian City Council Meeting ; August 22, 2000 Page 53 and continue it to the 19th. Mr. Anderson will have to get the tape which he should do. Not read, but listen to the tapes. Make his decision at that time that Cherie's back here. I'm like Tammy. I don't want it to look like it's being railroaded. Tammy and I have been both pretty stable in our views on the thing, and Shari has been stable on her views. That way we can see what Ron is going to do. With that, I move that we open the public hearing for the request for annexation and zoning for preliminary plat, Conditional Use Permit or Preliminary Plat and for Con Valeri Heights Subdivision on the northeast corner of West Pine and North Ten Mile and open it. And I would then move that we continue this to the meeting of September 19th, 2000, the first item on the regular agenda. deWeerd: Mr. Bird, would you - Corrie: Before we get into discussion - give a second and then we'll discuss it. Is there a second to that motion? deWeerd: Second. Corrie: Now the motion has been made and seconded. Discussion. deWeerd: My only discussion would be that this be continued to allow any comments from Mr. Anderson to declare who he has talked to as well as ask any questions of the applicant that he might have. Bird: It'll be a public hearing again. Corrie: It will be re-opened. It will be a public hearing and we can go through the same things we've done tonight. Bird: Just like we did this time, Tammy. Just identical. deWeerd: When we re-opened Bear Creek for - we already did it for specific testimony. Bird: Question, Mayor. Let's get it - Corrie: Okay. Motion made and seconded that we have the public hearing opened and then continued until September 19, 2000. Any further discussion? Stop because the question has been answered. Roll-call vote, Mr. Clerk. Roll-call: deWeerd, aye; McCandless, naye; Anderson, absent; Bird, aye MOTION CARRIED: TWO AYES, ONE NAVE, ONE ABSENT. (~.,uu . Meridian City Council Meeting August 221 2000 Page 54 ( Corrie: Then the motion is passed two to one to reopen the public hearing and then continue the public hearing on the annexation and zoning, preliminary plat approval and the Conditional Use Permit. Okay. (inaudible comment from the audience) Corrie: We didn't take a vote. This is the vote that we took. Bird: Mr. Mayor, I move that we go into an Executive Session as per Idaho State Code Section 67-2345 (c). Corrie: That's the purchasing of property? Bird: Yes, sir. Selling of property. deWeerd: Second. Corrie: Motion made and seconded to go into Executive Session for purposes of discussion of purchasing or selling property of the City. All those in favor of the motion say aye. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT Corrie: I'll entertain a motion to come out of Executive Session. Bird: So moved. deWeerd: Second. Corrie: Motion made and seconded to come out of Executive Session. All those in favor of the motion say aye. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT Corrie: Okay. For the record, we were approached by a buyer to buy City property, and we did have a discussion of that and will be putting that on the regular Item agenda on September 5th. At that time we'll discuss it further about selling the property. Any other discussion? Hearing none, I'll entertain a motion to adjourn August 22nd. Bird: So moved. deWeerd: Second. Corrie: All those in favor of the motion say aye. 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