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HomeMy WebLinkAboutNovember 16, 2006 P&Z Minute Meridian Planning & Zoning November 16, 2006 Page 13 of 63 Zaremba: -- 7th. Okay. End of motion. Borup: Second. Moe: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve CUP 06-033 and move it on to City Council. All those in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed same sign? That motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. ONE ABSENT. Hood: Mr. Chair, before you go to the next item, I just have a couple of just real quick things. Commissioner Zaremba brought one of them up. You do have the option -- I know no one is real favorable about special meetings, but if we need to there are five Thursdays in this month and if we don't get through the agenda items and you so choose to have a meeting on the 30th, that is an option. The other thing I would ask is that due to the number of folks that are in the audience this evening, maybe just a quick here is how we hold our hearings, three minutes, if there is a neighborhood -- you know, just kind of run through that I think would be appropriate. Moe: I can do that. Hood: Thank you. Moe: As Caleb has mentioned, basically, the way we will work this through, as we already have, staff will give their report, at which time, then, the applicant will be coming up to give their presentation in regards to the project. The applicant will have I do believe it's 15 minutes -- or ten minutes to give their report and their comments, at which time, then, the members in the audience will have their opportunity to make their comments in regards to the hearing itself. Those will be a three minute comment. I would state that if you have a homeowners association that you're all in this -- within the same hearing, if, in fact, you can show a sign of hands that, basically, you're a group and you have a spokesperson, that's spokesperson, then, would get extended time to make comment and if you signed up, at which, you know, you had already had a spokesperson stating the comments for you, we just appreciate you letting us know that you -- that they are speaking for you as well. But it looks like we have a large audience tonight with probably a couple hearings and so a couple things -- and I just make some comments in regards to this next hearing, which I'm sure quite a few are here for on the Spurwing project. You know, we have heard that and we have heard comments prior to this meeting. I would state that the comments that were made from the people that spoke last time are in the minutes and are part of the hearing, so I would hope that those people would not, basically, say the same thing a second time tonight. Item 8: Continued Public Hearing from November 2, 2006: AZ 06-043 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 20.51 acres from R-R to R-8 zone for Spurwing Patio Homes Subdivision by Spurwing Limited Partnership Meridian Planning & Zoning November 16, 2006 Page 14 of 63 - NEC of N. Ten Mile Road and W. Chinden Boulevard and west of N. Spurwing Way: Item 9: Continued Public Hearing from November 2, 2006: PP 06-045 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 73 residential building lots consisting of 46 attached single-family units and 27 detached single-family units and 6 common/other lots on 20.51 acres in a proposed R-8 zone for Spurwing Patio Homes Subdivision by Spurwing Limited Partnership - NEC of N. Ten Mile Road and W. Chinden Boulevard and west of N. Spurwing Way: Moe: So, with that in mind, then, I'd like to go ahead and open the continued public hearings for AZ 06-043 and PP 06-045 for the Spurwing Patio Homes Subdivision and have the staff report. Watters: Chairman Moe, Members of the Commission, the applications before you are annexation and rezone, preliminary plat, and variance request for Spurwing Patio Homes Subdivision. The property is 20.65 acres in size and is currently zoned R-R, rural residential, in Ada County. The applicant has requested this property be annexed and rezoned to the R-8 medium density residential zoning district. This project was previously heard at the October 19th Commission meeting, at which time the Commission directed staff to prepare conditions of approval. The subject property is generally located northeast of the North Ten Mile Road, Chinden Boulevard intersection. If you look up here on the overhead. And it's an existing lot in the Spurwing Subdivision. That parcel right there. Access to the site is currently provided by North Spurwing Way, which is right over here, via West Balata Court, both local public streets within Spurwing Subdivision. An emergency access is proposed from Chinden Boulevard at the southwest corner of the site, right down here, for emergency access vehicles only. Since the last Public Hearing the applicant has submitted a revised plat with the following changes. First, the common area in Block 1 has been reconfigured and approximately half an acre of open space has been added. Two building lots were removed from the northeast portion of Block 1. Right in here. Lots 58 and 59 and the open space between Lots 30 and 32 at the northwest corner was shifted to the east for a more central location right here. These changes provide more visibility to the common areas as requested by the police department. The lot sizes on a few of the lots along the north boundary changed slightly, but still meet the requirements of the R-8 zone. All other lots stayed the same. The ponds and meandering creek have been removed, which provides more usable open space for the subdivision. Although the revised plat provides more visibility to the common area along the north boundary, the police department still believes there is a lack of visibility from the street to the open space proposed behind the residential lots on Blocks 1 and 2. The proposed development consists of 71 single family residential building lots, consisting of 44 attached units and 27 detached units. The gross density of the proposed subdivision is 3.46 dwelling units per acre, which generally complies with the Comprehensive Plan future land use map designation of medium density residential. The applicant is proposing 19 percent open space with landscaped common areas. A variance is being Meridian Planning & Zoning November 16. 2006 Page 15 of 63 requested to exceed the maximum block length space allowed in a residential district. However, the Commission is not required to make a recommendation to Council on this application. The issues highlighted in the staff report before the Commission are as follows: First, this site is currently platted as Lot 3, Block 1, of Spurwing Subdivision, but it also includes a portion of Lots 2 and 4 of the same subdivision. A property boundary adjustment application that matches the configuration of the property as shown on the proposed plat is currently in process at Ada County and will be required to be completed prior annexation ordinance approval by Council. Second, the goal of the Comp Plan is to require new urban density subdivisions which abut or are proximal to the existing low density residential land uses to provide landscape screening or transitional densities with larger, more comparable lot sizes to buffer the interface between urban level densities and rural residential densities. The applicant has complied with the landscape screening portion by proposing a landscaped common area with a six foot tall stone wall fence as a buffer to the existing residences. However, the police department is not supportive of the design of the open space areas that are located behind building lots as they do not offer natural surveillance opportunities, a potential safety hazard. They are also not supportive of the six foot tall fence on the perimeter on the north. Further, the proposed lots along the north boundary do not provide enough of a transition from the existing one acre lots. Larger, more comparable lot sizes and lower density should be provided to buffer the interface between urban and rural residential densities in compliance with the Comprehensive Plan. Last, in addition, on transitional lot sizes, the Comprehensive Plan specifically states that residential uses north of Chinden and within a quarter mile or less from the rim should have lot sizes ranging from half to one acre in size, insuring compatibility with Spurwing Country Club to the east. Use of transitional lot sizes and clustering of smaller lots adjacent to the nonresidential and rim property is encouraged. Written comments on this project have been received from the Joint School District No.2, Andrea Ness, Holly Catoskey, Nichole Black, Randy and Kathleen Rudeen, and an unsigned, undated letter stamped received by the city clerk on November 2nd. For the reasons previously stayed and those stated in the staff report, staff is recommending denial of the subject application. That's all staff has, unless the Commission has questions. Moe: Commissioners, any questions at the present time of staff? Okay. Having none, would the applicant come forward, please. McKay: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission. Just briefly I will kind of -- Moe: Would you, please, name and address? McKay: Oh. Becky McKay. Engineering Solutions, 150 East Aikens, Suite B, Eagle. I will just kind of go over the discussion that I had with Bob Stowe. At the last Public Hearing the Commission asked us to get with the police department and to discuss some of their concerns to see if there could be some modifications made to alleviate the issues that they had. In the original plan we had lots that went clear over to -- that adjoined these existing lots here. What Bob Stowe asked me to do is to eliminate a Meridian Planning & Zoning November 16, 2006 Page 16 of 63 couple of the lots that would create a view corridor into this open space here. He also asked that we create another view corridor, which we did here. We opened this up and allocated some additional open space at this location here. There was a pond shown so that these properties would have a water amenity. Bob's concern was the fact if there was a drowning or something in that pond, if emergency access was necessary back to the pond, would that be difficult. So, we agreed to eliminate that pond and have that be greenscape only. He had a concern about people installing fencing, like sight obscuring fencing along this area here. The applicant agreed in writing that we -- he would restrict that fencing, there would either be no fencing allowed along this side of the lot or that it would be limited to wrought iron, so it would be non-sight obscuring. I asked staff -- Bob had a concern about the masonry -- the six foot masonry fence that we were proposing here. The ordinance does allow us to install a six foot fence on our perimeter. It is internally with the open space that the ordinance does not allow the six foot sight obscuring. The Commission also asked that -- the question did we have any elevations. I did submit elevations to the staff. She can put them up on the overhead. We also brought some large ones. What you're looking at there -- that particular drawing would be the attached unit. So, as far as the garage units with a side entry here, you would have entrance here and, then, what you can't see, it would swing around at this location. So, that is an attached unit. And here is a color rendering that I can show you. Which is identical to what's on the screen. Just a little brighter. The detached unit looks like this. Just as Mr. Hewitt indicated, he's going with a stucco, single level type dwelling and this particular one has the tile roof. Bob asked that we get Joe Silva at the fire department to discuss with him any concerns that they may have concerning the project. If Sonya could put that site plan back up. In my discussions with Joe I asked him that fact that we do have 71 lots in this area with one point of ingress and egress. He said that was not a problem as long as we had this secondary emergency vehicle access. It will be 20 foot wide paved. We needed to meet the fire department radiuses, which we did on our revised drawings show that we can meet that inside and outside radius of 28 and 48. As far as the emergency vehicle access, the fire department has asked that we put signage here and signage here, emergency vehicle access only. The fire department prefers gates with their special fire department locks at each end. This one would be inset enough that a fire truck or emergency vehicle, if they had to utilize that access point, could pull in off of Chinden, but, yet, is still visible from Chinden, so that no one tries to utilize that as an access into the project. The police department says they don't have keys to those locks and so they prefer some type of a bollard system. So, Joe Silva indicated to me that he would get with Bob Stowe -- this has kind of been an ongoing problem that's not related just to this project, but to other projects and they would try to come up with a solution, possibly providing that key to the police department or coming up with some type of a system that's acceptable to both entities. I asked Joe if he had concerns about the open space with us making these additional changes. He indicated that he did not. So, I believe that we have satisfied the concerns of the fire department and we have done our very best to satisfy the concerns of Mr. Stowe. This particular space here -- it's almost an extension of those lots. When -- like I indicated to Bob, when you don't have perimeter fencing here, it's an extension of the lot that is kind of what we call on the green, which is Meridian Planning & Zoning November 16. 2006 Page 17 of 63 popular now in a lot of designs. Does the Commission have any questions that I could answer? Moe: Becky, I do have one in regards to that same area we are speaking of. You got rid of the pond, basically, because of the safety concern. In fact, you have got a grassed area and you're playing out there and you still have a safety concern that -- McKay: The only other thing, Commissioner Moe, that we could do would be to eliminate that as open space and extend those lot lines back and, you know, it could still be green space, maybe a landscape easement, which we do on some other projects. And, then, eliminating -- we do have like a 20 foot access to get back to there. If it's a common area, you have to provide access for mowing and maintenance. If the lots were extended back, then, obviously, each individual lot owner would do their own maintenance or sometimes on these types of units where we have snowbirds, they hire a company to come in and do that full area. We see a lot of that. I did a big project in Idaho Falls that was that way and no one took care of their lawn, it was all farmed out to a particular landscape company. But if that's the wish of the Commission, I mean we could accommodate that. We are at 19.5 percent open space. So, we far exceed the five percent requirement. Moe: All right. Okay. Any other questions, Commissioners? Okay. None? Works for me. Okay. Again, if, in fact, like I spoke earlier, if -- I assume that there may be somebody that is being spoken for between you guys, but, anyway the first one on the list is Ron Ashley. When you come up, make sure and say your name and your address. Ashley: I'm Ron Ashley. I live at 6851 North Penncross, Meridian, in Spurwing, and I have been a resident for 63 years in Ada County. I built a new home out there five years ago and I was led to believe at that time that there was going to be condos over in that area and I told it was going to be 35 and it would be ten years before they came, because of the sewer. Well, actually, the sewer picked up speed, so I was led to be -- it would be 35 condos and I believe there is 70 lots out there now in Spurwing and the traffic is a problem there now, because you have got stop light, stop light, and you just put a new stop light, what, at Lochsa Falls -- two or three hundred yards east of Spurwing, new subdivision going right across the street, all bermed up, no road there, so there is not going to be a stop light there. So, you're going to have a traffic problem when you dump the amount of cars that's going to be in that area now. If you have got 70 condos and 70 houses, you're going to double it up. That's alii have. Thank you. Baird: Mr. Chair? Moe: Yes, sir. Baird: Could I make a suggestion that you inquire whether there is a spokesperson, then, we would have that individual speak first and, then, if folks have been spoken for, they can indicate that on the record. Meridian Planning & Zoning November 16, 2006 Page 18 of 63 Moe: That would be great. As suggested, is there a spokesperson for most of the folks that have signed up? Borup: It doesn't look like it. Moe: I guess at this time I would kind of like to have a show of hands as to who she's speaking for. No. No. If she's speaking for you and she doesn't bring up something that you want, you can at least do that, yes. Basically, what we are trying to do is give enough time for one person to give all the comment of the group here, as opposed to trying to do this three minutes at a time and hearing pretty much the same thing over and over and over again. Okay. Thank you. State your name and address, please. Engle: My name is Jenna Engle and I live at 2819 West Balata Court in Spurwing. Moe: Thank you. Engle: I think first and foremost it's really important for us all here to consider the fact that Spurwing is not just an average subdivision, it's a golf and country club and what we have there, quite often, are special events, weddings, parties, anniversaries, golf tournaments, plus the normal traffic that we generate when our women's groups and men's groups have their golf tournaments, there is a lot of traffic going in and out of that one entrance and I don't know what the situation is currently with that access for the fire department, but if it isn't in writing, if we don't have it pat, then, I definitely think that this should be continued until they get it. So, my information was that this is the same plan, minus two buildings that we looked at in December of 2005 and, again, in March of 2006 and not much has changed and looking at what we have been told are the parameters for developing this property, is that it needs to be medium density, not high density, which is what we are seeing here. So, for that reason alone I think that everyone here is pretty much in agreement that this applicant should be denied and he should come back to the drawing board with something that fits the picture that everyone was given years ago of 35 units, not common wall, shared units, but separate units. And that was our understanding when we bought our property, too, and we haven't addressed garages and parking areas. How does that look? How many square feet are these units that were presented today. We don't even know what they are. The applicant has never provided us with that information and with that number that is proposed there, I mean we more than double -- we are looking at 70 units doubling, quite possibly tripling the amount of traffic going in and out of that one entry onto Chinden. So, if we don't look at it in a little bit different way, again, we are looking at being trapped within a country club area that we can't get in and out of, let alone the fire department and the police. So, the fact that this doesn't comply with the Comprehensive Plan, that we don't have fire department and police approval, seems to me like three really good reasons that this does not get approved today. When I talked to some other folks that were original home buyers, most of whom live out on the rim, they were told that there was going to be fire access provided for the 70 houses that are in there now. To my knowledge, unless somebody knows differently, that fire access Meridian Planning 8: Zoning November 16, 2006 Page 19 of 63 still isn't there. And the only way in and out of Spurwing is through the main gates. So, I'd like to know more about that situation before this applicant is approved. I don't get the -- the idea of calling the attached houses patio homes. The definition on Google of a patio home is that they do not have shared common walls. These are duplexes. Duplexes are not appropriate for Spurwing. They just aren't in the same genre as the rest of that complex and my understanding for years is that development is supposed to improve property and it looks to me with what's proposed here is that rather than improve it it's going to degrade the property. And I don't understand why the applicant would want to do that to this facility. It doesn't make sense. So, whether or not they have actually met open space by removing the water features -- to me I couldn't -- I couldn't make head or tails of that. Maybe somebody else can. But I still don't think that Spurwing golf course should be considered a greenbelt for this proposed subdivision. As far as snowbirds go, we heard about that last time we were here and, initially, some of the folks that bought homes in Spurwing wanted to buy some of these patio homes and they are not snowbirds, they are year around, 12 month of the year, residents. We want to maintain our community and maintain the safety within the community for our family and our children and grandchildren in many cases and I don't think that with what we have been hearing for the last month or more about this project, that this will get it for us at all. So, I am opposed to the application in its entirety and I will -- I will close my remarks and, hopefully, you will see fit to deny this application and get the applicant to come back with a suitable plan. Thank you. Moe: Questions, Commissioners, so far? Zaremba: No. Moe: Next on the list was Dede Ashley. From the audience she says she's fine, she's spoken for. Next -- I can't get the first name. It's Brown last name. Okay. Byron is what that says. I got the o-n. Yes. Come-- Brown: Byron Brown, 7019 North Penncross Way. 83646. This will be very brief. I think that I would second all the thoughts that Mrs. Engle has proposed. I really think that there has been a major breaking in faith with the original development, because everybody that bought initially out there -- and we have been out there for -- well, we bought five years ago and the tale was 35 patio-type homes. My wife and I lived in a common wall building over in a subdivision in Meridian. We didn't call it a patio home, we called it a duplex, and that's what these are, these are duplexes. The other thing is, too, is that I think one has a difficult time messing with the rights of people to develop their properties in appropriate ways. And I think the key word there is appropriate and it's appropriate for the developer -- it's also appropriate for the people that live in the development and I think the people that live there now have the history, we have the promises -- well, maybe they aren't promises, but at least we have the initial plot plans that reflected 35 units. I think you have been told by the fire department, the police department, the staff that this development should be DOA, that's dead on arrival, and the last thing I would really like to say is that there is only one way in and one way out of this subdivision. The proposed emergency portion over there in the southwest corner Meridian Planning & Zoning November 16. 2006 Page 20 of 63 runs across the connecting area between two golf holes on the Spurwing golf course. Is that going to be a tunnel? Is that going to be on the surface? I would hate to be the guy driving across that road when the ambulance comes down the street. Or walking across that road when the ambulance comes down the street. Or fire department. Or the police department. So, my feeling is is that this is not appropriate for our area. I think the key part of the staff report -- could you read the part about that lot size back -- Baird: Mr. Chair? If I could remind the speaker to speak through the chair person and not directly with staff to maintain order. Brown: Could we ask the staff to reiterate the comments about the lot size out there? Moe: I sure can. Could staff do that, please. Brown: The very last part of the report. Moe: After that you'll need to wrap up your comments, please. Watters: Well, I don't have a -- Commissioners, I don't have an exact figure on lot sizes with the revisions. Brown: Is there recommendation of the lot sizes relative to the preexisting lots at Spurwing Subdivision? Watters: The Comp Plan designates this area to have lot sizes ranging from one half to one acre, compatible with Spurwing Country Club. Brown: I think that pretty well spells it out. Moe: Thank you. Baird: And, Mr. Chair, I might add -- if we could avoid displays of clapping or booing, it - _ it will move along here. Your comments are appropriate for the record, but it's not appropriate that we clap after each speaker. Moe: If you would, please, hold your excitement down, I would appreciate it, so would the Commission. Next on the list was Beverly Brown. From the audience she says she has been spoken for. Next was Joy Compton. Compton: Good evening. My name is Joy Compton, I live at 7014 North Spurwing Way, Meridian. 83646. I'm sort of in a transition spot there between where the real rim starts, but I do overlook Hole No. 18's tee off position. I want to very quickly -- I don't think it will exceed the three minutes -- read you a letter that I received -- my husband and I received from Jock Hewitt when we purchased our property or made preliminary plans to do so. Dear Chuck and Joy -- Meridian Planning & Zoning November 16, 2006 Page 21 of 63 Borup: What was the date? Compton: June 6th, 1996. 1996. June 6th. Dear Chuck and Joy: Spurwing Country Club continues to be the talk of the town. In quotation marks. Spurwing's fabulous golf course has received rave reviews from both amateur and professional players. The new clubhouse features all facilities required of a first class club and has greatly surpassed the expectations of members and nonmembers alike. The consensus is that Spurwing Country Club is one of the very best. As you know, the Spurwing residential area has only 70 home sites. Only a few of the 22 lots in phase one remain and over one-third of the 30 lots in phase two and three are now reserved. Before long Spurwing will be sold out. When you think about the many wonderful reasons for building your home at Spurwing Country Club, also consider the following: Spurwing Country Club is unique in that club memberships outnumber home sites 492 to 70. As a result, the fortunate seller of a Spurwing residence will very likely find more than a few members who will want to be one of the 70 and live at the club. Residential lot sales are the obvious beneficiary of this outstanding country club facility. Again, I'd like to read that. Residential lot sales are the obvious beneficiary of this outstanding country club facility and they are now running a year ahead of our projections. We are, therefore, developing phases two and three concurrently. Construction should begin in 30 to 45 days, with closing on your Lot 46 at that time. We will keep you posted as to progress on the date of construction commencement and closing. Sincerely yours, signed Jock Hewitt. What I'm seeing up here is a subdivision being proposed in the subdivision of Spurwing Country Club. I think it is remarkable only in the fact that it is being proposed at all. And I strongly ask that you deny this application. Thank you. Moe: Next on the list would be Gary and Mary -- I can't read the last name. From the audience they said they have been spoken for. I will go ahead and move on and, then, if you signed up and you still need to speak, then, we will do that at that point. You know, I thought I had bad writing. Claire? From the audience Claire has been spoken for. Bob. What would be the last name, sir? Trerise: I am Bob Trerise and we live at 3011 West Balata Court and we are new one year residents of Spurwing. We just moved in last year. And we absolutely love it. We love all our neighbors. And you can see it's a lively group. We own one of the lots on Salata Court that is the acre lot that backs up to the townhouses. When we bought the house a year ago we were informed of the townhouse project and we are very supportive of it. We think it will actually add value and help the club. Our only concern is the density and our concern is also about the quality of the townhouses. So, again, when we bought our house what we received information on was that it was something more in the neighborhood 35 to 40 townhouses that would go in and also that they would be really upscale townhouses, that these would be really premier, high quality types of townhouses that would not deteriorate the value of our lots and our home. So, that's our concern. I think that's been stated and we agree with Mrs. Engle as well. Thank you. Meridian Planning & Zoning November 16, 2006 Page 22 of 63 Moe: Thank you very much. Next would be Sarah and Mike. From the audience they have been spoken for. Amy Jorgensen. From the audience she has been spoken for. Kathleen Rudeen. From the audience she states she's been spoken for. Do we have an Olivia? That might be an X. Yeah. From the audience she says she's been spoken for. Stephanie. From the audience she's been spoken for. Let's see. I would assume that's Gina's husband. Have you been spoken for as well, sir? Okay. Andrea. From the audience she says she's been spoken for. John Flaherty. from the audience he's been spoken for. I think the last name is Houst. From the audience he says he's been spoken for as well. That is all that is noted here. Actually, I think there was one name that I just could not get, so if there is someone in the audience that would still like to speak to this, come forward, please. One at a time. We'll get you both. Peterson: Grant Peterson, 7082 North Penncross Way. I have a couple concerns, which are mainly traffic driven. I, for the most part, share everyone's views here and do believe that a guy should be able to develop his property and so forth, but I don't believe -- in looking at it and even looking at the drawing up there -- that it's just too dense and we do not have the roads and the infrastructure with only one access point to be able to handle it. I have not seen anything in the report and I have not had a chance to look at the report, but I'm wondering if a traffic study is required or requested or if one has been done in that neighborhood and I would ask the Commission -- I don't know how much traffic this will generate. You guys have all the data. These traffic experts have the data of how many trips per day households generate. Jock and I spoke last night and we threw numbers back and forth, but I don't know those numbers and I don't know -- I'm not a road engineer, but I know that we only have one engineer -- or one road to get in and out of this subdivision and I don't believe that it's adequate. We are lined up many times because of the backed up Chinden thing and we have no signalized access. So, my main concern is the traffic. Obviously, the quality of the subdivision is paramount and what is done there. But I do think that a lesser density is the right way to go and I would like to see a traffic study to see if the infrastructure can handle it and if there is another creative way to be able to move the traffic in and out of the subdivision that will work for the developer and work for the neighborhood, so -- amen. Moe: Thank you. Come forward, sir. Tucker: My name is Myron Tucker and, Mr. Commissioner and guests, I live at 2582 West Penick Pointe Court in Spurwing. There is -- I guess that's why there is two sides to everything, but mostly they speak for me, but they really don't speak all the way for me. I am very anxious and looking forward to the project. I, for one, will move in there. I'm tired of mowing an acre and I'd like to downsize and I'm looking forward to it. As far as the traffic goes, which seems to be the biggest complaint, it's not the traffic of the subdivision, it's the traffic of everybody below and above us. It is very difficult to get onto Chinden Boulevard. So, I don't really think that that's a problem within the subdivision. And as far as I'm concerned I'd like to see the project go. Moe: Thank you very much. Meridian Planning & Zoning November 16, 2006 Page 23 of 63 Rice: I didn't get to sign in. Moe: You're fine. Rice: Okay. My name is Tina Rice. I live at 2851 West Balata Court. My property backs into this -- this proposed development. I'm also a realtor for Holland Realty and what I want to say is that I applaud the fact that when I took a look at the plans I was worried whether we are going to have the houses backed up into our one acre lots. But they were all single story. He moved the road back away from the homes. Now this is where -- Moe: Please take the mike there. No. Right there. There is another one right there. Rice: Okay. What he's done that I really really appreciated is that he's moved the roadway between here and a backyard of the lot. Number one. They were all single story homes and the fact is we keep hearing this 76 lots. In fact, we have 44 of those that are duplex lots, whether you want to call them patio homes, adjoining walls, whatever. These homes are, basically, going to be 22 out of the 44. So, it will be 22 structures versus 44 four. So, I want you to keep that in mind. We are not looking at a total of 76 individual homes. And it will be sitting between right on the center part of the lot and these lots are approximately a hundred feet wide and a hundred feet deep, which I don't think is unusual when you look into a patio situation and not only am I a realtor, but I'm also a baby boomer with elderly parents and I might not want to do a yard, an acre lot, and I appreciate the fact that we are learning to get density in areas that we don't need acre lots. We don't need to water them, we don't need to mow them. So, what they are going after -- and this developer has done an A-1 job in the developing of the original development and I except him -- and I'm sure he will perform to that level again in these patio homes or whatever you want to call them. So, I hope that gives you a little better perspective of the density that we are doing. Or not me, but what the developer is doing. And -- okay. Anyway. And I also have another letter from a neighbor that I need to turn in. Moe: Give it to the clerk, please. Okay. No one else has signed up. Again, if there is -- got someone else that wants to come forward. Davis: Ed Davis, marketing director, Spurwing Country Club, 6800 North Spurwing Way. On behalf of the club I have a letter and it's addressed: I'm writing in reference to the subdivision that is being proposed for development by Jock Hewitt. We feel the addition of the proposed housing development will be a valuable asset to Spurwing Country Club and the surrounding neighborhood. We have been aware of this planned development since Spurwing Country Club was first built and we will continue to support its development. Signed sincerely Don Larsen, General Manager. Moe: Okay. The one thing I want to make a point that that's why we ask for spokespersons and whatnot. If you have a comment to something other than what was already discussed, that's fine, but I'm not going to have all you folks coming up here just Meridian Planning & Zoning November 16, 2006 Page 24 of 63 asking single things. So, if there is anyone that would like to speak, please, come forward. Niss: Andrea Niss, 2932 West Balata. We would just like to state the fact that Mrs. Tina Rice who just stood up here is a sister-in-law to the developer for the fact for the Commission. We just thought that was pertinent. Moe: Thank you. Okay. Would the applicant like to come back. McKay: Thank you. Becky McKay, Engineering Solutions. Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, some of the comments have been made that we have not satisfied the police department's concerns. I believe we have. I met with Bob, we went through item by item, we sat down with the client, we addressed each one, and I sent my response in writing to the staff. The only outstanding issue is whether this should be eliminated or not. Secondly, the fire department. Joe Silva is satisfied. He indicated to me that he looked forward to having the ability to have a secondary emergency vehicle access into this neighborhood, because at this point in time there is one point of ingress and egress. Now, comments have been made, well, what if somebody is walking across there and an ambulance comes through. A second emergency vehicle access is only used in the event that the primary access is blocked due to an accident, construction, or whatever the case may be. These are used as a secondary emergency access only as a safety value. They are used in many municipalities. We use them in the foothills where we have restricted and limited access up into subdivisions that are at higher elevations. This project I think we discussed last time is a unique project, being on the golf course. You have these acre lots that came in under the county. They have septic systems and now this area is becoming urban. Central services are available. City limits are extending out. The area of impact is moving. This project I think reflects what we are seeing elsewhere. I took a trip here a couple weeks ago down to California to look at some of the new -- what they call leading edge projects and looked at the product that they are coming out with and we are seeing diversity. Diversity is very important and we are seeing attached six-plex type townhomes that are right across the street from detached single family dwellings and it's done in a fashion that it all interfaces. I mean we are talking residential to residential here. These are not some crummy little four- plex rentals that we are trying to stick up next to one acre large estate type homes. These are going to be luxury homes that are going to go in here. We got the golf course surrounding it. We are creating also interior open space to compliment this subdivision, to create buffering and to provide an amenity to all the lots in the homes, which, obviously, adds to the value. We believe that this is -- is a good project. Your Comprehensive Plan talks about diversity. It's promoting providing alternative types of homes and lots for differing lifestyles and I think that's what we have provided here. I wasn't involved in the original Spurwing project, so I can't speak to what was said or letters written or whatever the case may be, but I feel that this is a good project. There is support out here. There is some people that object. And that's not surprising. But I believe we have got an excellent project that should be recommended for approval. Do you have any questions? Meridian Planning & Zoning November 16. 2006 Page 25 of 63 Moe: Commissioners? Borup: Mr. Chairman. Becky, you have already mentioned you aren't familiar with the previous plans, but are you familiar with the -- several comments that have been made on a 35 lot plan previously. Do you know anything about that? McKay: Mr. Chairman, Commissioners -- Borup: I mean it sounds like it would have to be -- half the space would have to be open space or something. McKay: -- I can't speak to that. Mr. Hewitt would have to speak to that. I was not involved in the original one, so I could not. Oh, I did forget about transportation. The number of vehicle trips generated by the existing homes is 700 vehicle trips a day. As you well know we calculate approximately ten vehicle trips per household. Our particular project, based on Ada County Highway District projections, I think is 622 vehicle trips per day. That was with the 73 lots. Of course, we have gone down, so it's about 8.52 trips per day per unit. As you know, the attached units they calculate less vehicle trips per day, because the households are smaller. As far as access on this, this is a collector. A collector roadway can carry up to six to eight thousand vehicle trips a day. The local street we calculate can carry up 1,000 trips per day. And I agree with what the gentleman said, a lot of the problem is the fact that Chinden has high volumes of traffic on -- I think it's three lanes there. And the signal -- when it's operational at Lochsa Falls should help with that stacking. Borup: True statement. McKay: Commissioner Borup, would you like Mr. Hewitt to address that? Borup: I would. Moe: Very much so. Hewitt: My name is Jock Hewitt and I'm the developer out here. I live at 7212 North Spurwing Way. I will be affected by whatever traffic results from this project, just like anyone else. This is the first plan that has ever been done with regard to this property. And from time to time people would say, well, what's going to go on over there and I'd say, well, patio homes. How many are going to go over there? I'd say, well, I really don't know. We haven't done the plan, we haven't done the density studies or anything like that. No plan was ever done that outlined 35 units or 30 units or whatever else. And comments of number of units have ranged from anywhere from -- I don't know what. But when we got ready to do this plan here, what we wanted to do was do something that would meet the market and we believe we have done that. The problem with the traffic, again, is Chinden and you're all aware of that and the problems that we have in the area. But this plan here, we have had some comments, a lot of rumors circulating, are the duplex units going to be trashy units, some -- all sorts of things like Meridian Planning & Zoning November 16, 2006 Page 26 of 63 that, that they are going to devalue. I'd like somebody to explain to me how a 15, 16 hundred square foot unit that is probably going to cost at least 300,000 dollars, is going to be a trashy unit. There is no way that's going to happen. All of these units in the development, whether they be detached or attached, stucco exterior, probably some stone trim here and there, they will be either slate or tile roofs, the interior of the units are going to be finished out appropriately and they are going to be spendy units, because those are the types of people we want to attract to the club. They make good members of the club and a good number of these people that buy these units are going to be members of the club already and so their trips in and out of Spurwing will be eliminated. And one of the reasons they'll want to move in here is so they don't have to make that trip in and out getting on and off Chinden. If there were a light at Ten Mile, for example, that would go a long way towards helping everybody up and down the way and the lights will come at the right time, you know, whenever there is money available, I suppose. But as far as this project's concerned, we have done our very best to make it a unique project within the development to minimize the impact of the homeowners, but everybody that purchased lots in there knew that there were going to be patio homes and it was going to be a higher density development and any subsequent purchasers I can't speak for them, but there are several people here tonight that will assure you that it's been common knowledge that there were going to be patio homes out here from day one, even before we, you know, had built our first single family home out here. But this is a fine project, it's going to be well done, and it's going to be a real addition to the club. I'll take any questions if you have any. Moe: Commissioners, any questions? Newton~Huckabay: Mr. Hewitt, I just have one. How many phases were in the original Spurwing? Hewitt: Pardon me? Newton-Huckabay: Or how many phases did you do when you built the original piece of it and how many houses were in each one of those? Hewitt: The original Spurwing which was platted out was 70 estate lots and we initially did that -- were planning on doing that in four phases. We wound up doing it in three. And of the 70 home sites out there, there are two remaining to be sold. Newton-Huckabay: And did you -- what numbers did you -- well, phase one was how many homes, phase two was how many homes, phase three -- Hewitt: I think the first -- the first phase, which was on Penncross, I believe there were 22 homes in that phase. And we just developed this out based on what the market would absorb. You have to remember at that time that it was before the real boom took off. Some of the rim lots in the first phase sold for in the neighborhood of 150,000. Now those rim lots are well up over a half a million. And some even higher than that now. So, that there is tremendous appreciation. I have as big of a stake out there in my Meridian Planning & Zoning November 16. 2006 Page 27 of 63 home as anybody does and I certainly wouldn't be doing anything that what I thought would devalue that, nor would I do anything that -- out there that I think would devalue the properties of anyone else or be a detriment to the club. This will be a very good thing for the club and what's good for the club is going to be good for all the members that live there, whether they live in a big one acre lot or if they live in a duplex unit or a detached home. Any other questions? Moe: No. Thank you very much. Well, Commissioners, any comments? Newton-Huckabay: Shall we close the Public Hearing? Moe: If you'd like to. Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Chair, I recommend we close the Public Hearing -- just a second -- on AZ 06-053, PP 06-045 and -- do we have the variance open? Okay. Moe: No. That's it. Newton-Huckabay: End of motion. Moe: Is there a second? Commissioners, is there a second to close the Public Hearing. Not as of yet? Zaremba: I'll second. Moe: Mr. Zaremba. Zaremba: I'll second. Moe: Okay. It has been moved and seconded to close the public hearings on AZ 06- 043 and PP 06-045. All those in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed same sign? Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. ONE ABSENT. Moe: Now, do I have comment from the Commissioners? Borup: Mr. Chairman, I have got a question of staff. Moe: Okay. Borup: And that's on the staff comment on compliance with the Comprehensive Plan. Is that in the 2000 -- what page is that on? Is that of no -- half acre to acre lots on everything -- well, I'm trying to figure out what that means. It says north of Chinden and within a quarter mile from the rim. Meridian Planning & Zoning November 16, 2006 Page 28 of 63 Watters: Chairman Borup, give me a second -- Borup: North -- I mean north of Chinden -- I mean that goes forever. So, what happens when it gets to a quarter mile -- or when you get within a quarter mile it has to be an acre. So, is that a redundant statement? And so if this is in the Comp Plan, then, does that apply to every project that we are looking at that's north of Chinden? This has never come up before on any of the other projects we have looked at. Hood: Mr. Chair, Members of the Commission, if I may, while Sonya is looking for the page annotation, I can let you know that that section of text was adopted just this last March when the city, in fact, added the area north of Chinden to our area of impact. Borup: Okay. That's what I was wondering. Hood: It's six months old. As far as the verbiage, I did not compose that and I'm not ready to interpret it, but that's how new it is in the Comp Plan and was adopted as we included this area, as well as some larger parcels on the north side of Chinden within our area of impact -- or future land use map. Borup: That's what I was thinking. That's probably why I don't have a copy of that. Well, that's good enough. I wouldn't have anything to reference it to anyway. Zaremba: I was going to say we have dealt with some other parcels that are north of Chinden and I don't remember putting those requirements on them. They may have been before the Comprehensive Plan amendment was -- well, no, the Tree Farm couldn't have been, because it wouldn't have been annexable. So, we didn't put any of these requirements on the Tree Farm, which was a huge piece of property. Hood: Mr. Chair, if I may? Moe: Yes. Hood: And Commissioner Zaremba and the rest of the Commissioners, the timing was a little bit odd on that. Tree Farm, actually, was acted on by the Planning and Zoning Commission prior to the City Council actually taking action on including that area within our area of impact. We held off on that development application getting to them, because we wouldn't -- we'd need to have a future land use map actually adopted by them before they could act on a project in there. There have been some zoning designations within the Tree Farm that have been granted that could have home sites that are -- that aren't -- don't appear to comply with that portion of the text. However, again, they were in process before that text was actually adopted. So, it's -- just the timing of it, it was so new and fresh -- there were policies like that that were going through almost simultaneously with that one and Knight Hills Estate I think were two that were right -- right at the beginning of when we were looking at making these areas part of the city. So, just so -- Meridian Planning & Zoning November 16, 2006 Page 29 of 63 Zaremba: Is that the one at Linder and Chinden? Hood: Correct. Zaremba: Yeah. Watters: Also, Commissioner Borup, for clarification, you had asked about the specific area that that Comp Plan goal was speaking about. It was -- it appears to be all the area north of Chinden and west of Spurwing that that applies to that's within our area. Borup: West of Spurwing? Watters: West of Spurwing. Borup: So, then, Spurwing wouldn't be included in that, then? Watters: Well, it reads specifically -- it says the Comp Plan specifically states that residential uses north of Chinden and within a quarter mile or less from the rim should have lot sizes ranging from half to one acre, insuring compatibility with Spurwing Country Club to the east. Use of transitional lot sizes and clustering of small lots adjacent to the nonresidential and rim property is encouraged. That's word for word out of the Comp Plan. Borup: And that does sound like west of Spurwing, then. Okay. It sounds that like doesn't apply here, then. Zaremba: If I'm thinking of the right thing, Tree Farm we asked that the properties that they have that would have bordered Spurwing be larger properties, but I think that's the only place we put that requirement. Spurwing has R-8s -- I mean not Spurwing -- Tree Farm has R-8s in it. Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Chair? Moe: Yes. Newton-Huckabay: I was just -- is this a critical piece for you on your decision on whether or not you're still in the favor of this project? This statement. Zaremba: I have flipped a couple of times. Newton-Huckabay: I guess I'm talking specifically to the statement. We could spend a half hour deciding how we wanted to interpret it, but ~. Borup: Well, it was one of the reasons -- it was one of the reasons for denial on the staff report, I assume. Meridian Planning & Zoning November 16, 2006 Page 30 of 63 Newton-Huckabay: On the staff report? Borup: But if it doesn't apply, then, I wouldn't want to take that in my consideration. Like you say, there is other things besides that. Moe: Although you made comment, Commissioner Borup, that it didn't -- doesn't apply, is it somewhat noted that way when it was stated that it's as per the lots in Spurwing, as far as size designation of the lots in Spurwing itself. Am I confusing you? I'd probably have to go back through that again. Borup: No. It indicated that -- I think that is a true statement. Anything west of Spurwing is what that's referring to. Watters: Excuse me, Commissioners. The applicant's stating that it's just beyond that quarter mile area. I can't personally verify that. I don't have that information on hand, but -- the applicant is -- Borup: Oh, right. I think I understand what it's saying. Zaremba: This project is -- Borup: Anything -- anything a quarter mile from the rim is in that -- is what this is referring to. Watters: Yes. A quarter mile or less from the rim. Zaremba: And this is more than a quarter mile. Is that what we are saying? Watters: The applicant is saying that it is. Moe: Commissioner Newton-Huckabay, do you have any comments on this at this time? Newton-Huckabay: I have a few comments. As I went back over and reread my comments from our last meeting in which I was waffling a little bit on my -- whether or not I supported this, I still believe this is an innovative project. However, I was disappointed to see that some of the water features were removed. I thought that was part of what made it an innovative project, particularly on the north -- north property line. And we also have about four times the amount of testimony this evening against this -- this development, which would leave me to believe that I would need to probably withdraw my support. I think if I lived in a development like this and had so many people against it and had a commission of four people voting in favor of it, I probably would not be very happy. I think it's -- I think it will be a mistake to go with predominately single family homes in this development. I think the fewer buildings that you're going to get with these upscale duplexes and having seen developments like this, I think it would have been a very nice addition to your neighborhood, but I don't feel Meridian Planning & Zoning November 16, 2006 Page 31 of 63 strongly about that enough to go against staff's recommendation and I will withdraw my support on the project. Moe: Commissioner Zaremba, do you have any comments? Zaremba: Actually, I do. Thank you. Quite a number. As I stated during the first part of this hearing, of which this is the continued part, I came to that meeting feeling that this was inappropriate in this area. The discussion that went on during that part of the hearing led me to feel that I would like to see what conditions of approval would be if we were to put it forward. I live near another golf course in Meridian that does have patio homes. None of them are common wall, they are all separate on lots, but they are smaller lots than what I live on and they are a good part of the community and as we ended the previous part of this hearing before continuing it, I was inclined to support this, since I find that my neighbors are a good part of my community and they have much smaller homes. That seems to work out. Even so, I still feel that this is maybe too much density for these roads and I have to be sensitive to the people that already live there. I mean quite often we have subdivisions that have been built and the applicant comes in for a totally separate piece of property that's maybe next to it and a higher density and we have taken the view that it's nice to have a mix. I feel differently about this one. I view the whole of Spurwing as a whole and I feel it's important to listen to the other property owners who are saying they would happy if this was 35 or 40, but in the 70s is way too much, way too many, way too much traffic and that being the case at the moment I'm inclined to agree with staff to recommend denial. Moe: Commissioner Borup, do you have any comment? Borup: I'm not sure. I think it's a very good project that can add a lot to Spurwing area, but if the neighbors aren't happy with it, they -- I have a hard time supporting it, too. You could end up with something a lot less compatible with something that would meet- - meet all the ordinances and the development -- well, they already do meet all the ordinance and development code. So, I think you're -- we are eliminating a lot of -- a lot of people that it would be appropriate for them to be in that neighborhood, those approaching retirement age and that don't want an acre to take care of, they are being eliminated. Those are the people that are not going to be using the roads during the high volume times, because they are going to stay home until the traffic is less, but, still, I guess -- I guess I have a hard time approving it the way it is. Staff has already stated they don't have any problem with the overall density, just the design and layout of existing property. So, there may be something else the developer could come up with that could satisfy more the neighborhood, I don't know. That's alii have got. Moe: Well, I guess a couple comments I would like to make. I pretty much am in agreement with the other Commissioners' comments. The one thing I was somewhat very surprised at the first meetings we had that there wasn't a lot of attendance and when we went through it, quite frankly, the project is -- looks to me to be somewhat fairly excited project, other than the fact it was a little bit -- the density was a little bit too much as far as I was concerned as well. Tonight through the testimony and whatnot we Meridian Planning & Zoning November 16, 2006 Page 32 of 63 have a little bit of a discrepancy as to who said what and how many units were going to be in this -- in this development and whatnot. I guess I kind of get the sense that if it was 35 to 40 there wouldn't be as much opposition as there is tonight. So, therefore, again, because there is so much opposition I -- I, too, have a real concern of trying to vote for something that the neighbors that live out there are strongly opposed to. So, having said that, can I get a motion from someone tonight? Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Chair? Go ahead. Borup: Well, I was going to make a motion. I just think I'm -- some of the comments -- Moe: Do you have anymore comment? Borup: What -- 35 units is -- the lots are going to have to be three times as big as they are, which defeats the whole purpose of that design. Either that or it all goes into open space. Okay. Go ahead. Newton-Huckabay: The 20th hole. I don't appear to have a -- Zaremba: Page two of the staff report. Newton-Huckabay: Is it on page two? Okay. I got it. After considering all staff, applicant, and public testimony, I move to recommend denial to the City Council of file numbers AZ 06-043 and PP 06-045, as presented during the hearing of October 19th -- and do I add -- Moe: And continued -- Newton-Huckabay: -- and continued until November 16th, 2006, for the following reasons: Overwhelming resident opposition to the project, continued density is felt to be inappropriate. Borup: Staff didn't say that. Newton-Huckabay: Well, it's opinion. Zaremba: Well, I think it's germane that the public opinion is people that are on the same property. Newton-Huckabay: Exactly. Zaremba: This is not people from somewhere else. Newton-Huckabay: Is that appropriate for my motion? End of motion. Borup: Second. Meridian Planning & Zoning November 16. 2006 Page 33 of 63 Moe: It's been moved and seconded to deny AZ 06-043 and PP 06-045 as also denied in the staff report. All those in favor of denial? Opposed same sign? The denial has carried. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSTAIN. ONE ABSENT. Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Chair, may we take a break? Moe: That was denied. At this time-- Borup: I abstained. Moe: -- we are going to take a 15 minute break and we will reconvene at 9:05. (Recess.) Moe: I'd like to reopen the Planning and Zoning Commission meeting for November 16th, 2006. Before we get going I'd like to make a point. On the last hearings for the Spurwing Patio Homes, AZ 06-043 and PP 06-045, that Commissioner Borup had abstained in that note and the other three were ayes for denial. Item 10: Public Hearing: AZ 06-050 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 4.64 acres from RR to an R-8 zone for Tree Farm Addition by Treehaven, LLC - north of Chinden Boulevard and west of N. Ten Mile Road: Moe: At this time I'd like to open the Public Hearing AZ 06-050, request for annexation and zoning of 4.64 acres from RR to R-8 zone for Tree Farm Addition and start with the staff report, please. Watters: Chairman Moe, Members of the Commission, the application before you is an annexation and zoning request for the property located at 6745 North Black Cat Road. The property is currently zoned RR in Ada County and the applicant is requesting to annex the property with an R-8 medium density residential zoning district, which complies with the Comp Plan designation of medium density residential. No new development is proposed at this time. The subject property is generally located on the west side of North Black Cat Road, approximately a quarter mile north of Chinden Boulevard. This property currently has direct access to North Black Cat Road. This portion of Black Cat that this property has frontage on is only a 20 foot wide street section with 30 feet of right of way that is improved with gravel. No new streets or accesses are proposed or approved with this application. The conceptual street layout proposed in the concept plan has been previously reviewed with the Tree Farm application. The site contains an existing single family home and associated outbuildings. The surrounding property is currently agricultural, but was recently annexed as part of the proposed Tree Farm development with a conceptual development plan. The annexation of the surrounding Tree Farm property resulted in