HomeMy WebLinkAbout2024-10-22 Work Session Meridian City Council Work Session October 22, 2024.
A Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 4:31 p.m. Tuesday,
October 22, 2024, by Mayor Robert Simison.
Members Present: Robert Simison, Luke Cavener, Liz Strader, Doug Taylor, and Anne
Little Roberts.
Members Absent: John Overton and Brian Whitlock.
Others Present: Chris Johnson, Bill Nary, Steve Siddoway, Ryan Roberts, Berle Stokes
and Dean Willis.
ROLL-CALL ATTENDANCE
_X Liz Strader Brian Whitlock
_X_Anne Little Roberts John Overton
_X_ Doug Taylor _X—Luke Cavener
X Mayor Robert E. Simison
Simison: Council, we will call the meeting to order. For the record it is October 22nd,
2024, 4:31 p.m. We will begin this afternoon's work session with roll call attendance.
ADOPTION OF AGENDA
Simison: Next up is adoption of the agenda.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: It doesn't look like we have any -- I don't see any changes to the agenda, so
move for adoption of the agenda.
Little Roberts: Second.
Simison: Have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda. Is there any discussion? If
not, in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay? The ayes have it and the agenda is
agreed to.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO ABSENT.
CONSENT AGENDA [Action Item]
1. Approve Minutes of the October 8, 2024 City Council Regular
Meeting
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October 22,2024
Page 2 of 11
2. Bordeaux Subdivision Sanitary Sewer and Water Main Easement
(ESMT-2024-0052)
3. Final Plat for Promenade Cottages No. 1 (FP-2024-0001), by A Team
Land Consultants, located at 403 E. Fairview Ave.
4. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Apex Farr Subdivision (H-
2024-0014) by Brighton Corporation, located at west side of S.
Locust Grove Rd., north of E. Lake Hazel Rd. and east of S. Meridian
Rd.
5. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law and Decision and Order for
Denial for Blayden Subdivision (H-2023-0043) by Bailey Engineering,
located at the south side of W. Chinden Blvd. and west side of N.
Black Cat Rd.
6. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law and Order for Bradshaw
Corner Subdivision (SHP-2024-0003) by Focus Engineering and
Surveying, located at 735 W. Cherry Ln.
7. Development Agreement (Luna Hospice H-2024-0012) Between City
of Meridian and Overland, HH, LLC for Property Located at 525 E.
Overland Rd.
8. Master Fiber Optic Facilities Permit with Ada County Highway District
(ACHD)
9. Master License Agreement with Ada County Highway District (ACHD)
for Installation and Disposition of Underground Fiber-Optic Conduit
Systems
10. Approval of Agreement with Billing Document Specialties for Fiscal
Year 2025 Postage and Mailing of Utility Bills and Authorizing the
Procurement Manager to Sign
11. Resolution No. 24-2486: A Resolution Vacating a One-Foot Portion of
the Permanent Public Utility, Drainage, and Irrigation (PUDI)
Easement Encumbering Lot 3, Block 5 of The Oaks North
Subdivision #5, Being More Particularly Described in Exhibit "A";
and Providing an Effective Date
12. Resolution No. 24-2488: A Resolution of the City Council of the City
of Meridian to Amend the Future Land Use Map of the City of
Meridian Comprehensive Plan Concerning a Portion of the Ten Mile
Interchange Area, Generally Located at the Northwest Corner of S.
Ten Mile Rd. and Interstate 84 in Section 15, Township 3 North,
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October 22,2024
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Range 1 West, Meridian, Idaho, Ada County; and Providing an
Effective Date
Simison: First up is the Consent Agenda.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: I move that we approve the Consent Agenda, for the Mayor to sign and Clerk
to attest.
Little Roberts: Second.
Simison: Have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda. Is there any
discussion? If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay? The ayes have it
and the Consent Agenda is agreed to.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO ABSENT.
ITEMS MOVED FROM THE CONSENT AGENDA [Action Item]
Simison: There were no items moved from the Consent Agenda.
DEPARTMENT / COMMISSION REPORTS [Action Item]
13. Parks and Recreation Department: Lakeview Golf Course Fee
Proposal
Simison: So, I will move to Item 13, which is Department/Commission Reports, which is
for Parks and Recreation Department Lakeview Golf Course fee proposal. Turn this
over to Mr. Siddoway.
Siddoway: Yes, Mayor, Council. And thank you, Chris, for getting the presentation up.
am pleased to kick off just by saying what a great year it's been out at the golf course
this year. We have had a really really good successful year out there and just want to,
you know, turn around and offer my -- my thanks to Ryan Roberts, who is the general
manager out there. He is not here for the presentation, but he is here in case there are,
you know, questions I can't answer about golf operations and things. He is -- he is my --
my right arm tonight on that. But the overall financial performance of the golf course is
very positive. We -- if you look at just the -- the operational expenses and revenues and
not the capital, which is an important caveat, because they would exclude things like the
-- the clubhouse renovation, things like that. But we made almost 300,000 dollars in
profit out there -- 280,000 to be specific and the total rounds played are up more than
15 percent from 42,000 rounds last year to 48,631 rounds this -- this past year -- fiscal
year '24. So, that's a fiscal year number, as opposed to a calendar year number. But
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this is a great place to be in terms of the number of rounds for us. I mean it really is
maxing out most of our open times during the good weather time. I mean the -- the
times when the tee sheet isn't filled are in the wintertime when it's cold or closed due to
snow or ice or in the hottest part of the summer when it's a hundred plus and smoky
there is, obviously, available times. But other than that Ryan's been doing a really good
job of managing such that those -- those tee times are -- are being filled. Importantly to
me and probably to you, the paid rounds -- or the ones that are the greens fee rounds
were up more than 14 percent this past year or almost 4,000 rounds. The specific
number was 3,995, but those rounds are up. So, with that as background I just want to
show you our philosophy for what we would like to bring forward for the new fees for this
coming year out at Lakeview. I think the first bullet point is really important. I'm not
asking for a motion tonight. I'm not asking for approval. I am asking for your -- your
feedback and with that feedback the goal or intent is to, then, publish those fees for a
public hearing a few weeks from now. So, we want to discuss the proposed fees what
our methodology has been and, then, we will post those fees and bring them back to
Council in a few weeks for that hearing. The goal is to cover our costs for operations,
plus some additional to cover the subsidy, like has always been talked about at the pool
and -- and elsewhere, but pool specifically, and we did a market analysis that I will --
that -- that is our -- our main focus and I will be sharing more with you on that here in
just a second. But we want to continue offering our quality facilities and programs at an
affordable price and to keep our facilities accessible to Meridian residents in particular,
though it's open to everybody. So, what we have done with Ryan's help and Garrett
took a -- took a big lead on that. In fact, Garrett would be the one making the
presentation to you tonight, but he is out hunting and having a good week. So, I'm here.
Now, you can see ten facilities right there starting with Warm Springs and ending at
Shadow Valley that are -- were considered -- what we considered the comparable
courses that were used for the -- the market analysis. The high end or private clubs,
like Banbury or Hillcrest, were -- were not on -- included on the list and the little par
threes that, you know, aren't a true 18 hole course, like Pierce Park or Indian Creek,
were also left off, but these -- and we try not to be selective, you know, only pick the
high ones, because there is ones that are cheaper and ones that are more expensive,
but we just tried to pick the field of all of the courses that we think the golfers that are
coming to -- to play at Lakeview what are their, you know, options. So, we looked at
those, we looked at all of their fee offerings and we basically averaged all of them and,
then, compared them to ours. What we are proposing tonight is just to take our fees to
the average of the market based on those comparable facilities. Most of them go up.
Some you can see, you know, on -- on the screen, the current fee, as well as the -- the
proposed fee -- there is even one that goes down slightly. It's the second one on there.
The weekday nine holes drops from 30 to 29.25, because we were trying to be true to
the -- the average and the proposal is to just move us to the average of the market. The
-- the overall increase as a whole is about 5.71 percent and -- but the -- these would be
the -- the proposed fees on the greens fee side based on those averages. This next
slide, then, looks at our season passes and we would propose to increase the season
passes proportionally to the green fees, meaning, as an example, if the weekday 18
whole greens fee went up 1.6 percent, which it did, the single restricted season pass,
which is restricted to weekdays, moves up the -- the same percentage. So, you can see
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the current fees and the proposed fees, they are based on the -- the season passes are
-- are based on those percentages and, then, the other -- the last thing that we would
propose -- right now we have all of these as -- we have nonresident and resident
passes available. We would propose, because we don't sell many nonresident passes,
just to eliminate the nonresident passes just to avoid having so many different fees.
Limit the total passes sold to 225 for this coming year and that number we will continue
to monitor and have conversations about, because I think as we dive deeper there are
some passes, frankly, that we may not want to restrict, like a weekday pass, for
example, if we have openings, but we will monitor that and we can talk about that, but
right now this gives us a little room for growth. We sold a little over 200 total passes last
year, but the idea would be to give Meridian residents the first opportunity to purchase.
Specifically we would -- we -- we typically start selling passes the day after
Thanksgiving when everyone's having Black Friday sales, people are in the mood to
buy things for Christmas for their families and our passes typically go on sale. There is
not a -- a sale price, but we typically put ours on sale for the following year on that date.
So, that would be our -- our goal and, then, open it up to nonresidents after the first of
the year. So, with that that's the philosophy, that's what we would like to -- to publish
and -- and -- and put out there for -- for discussion and for hearing and I will stand for
questions.
Simison: Thank you, Steve. Council, questions for Steve? Or feedback.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Thank you, Steve. I was curious about the -- a couple things. Just the
Lakeview cart fee that said it was new on your presentation. If you could explain --
yeah. So, last slide that you were on. Actually the previous slide.
Siddoway: This one?
Strader: Yep. Yeah. It's like the third. Yeah. Thank you, Council Woman Little
Roberts. You have the third row down. I was just surprised that this is a new --just help
me understand this fee I guess.
Siddoway: Yes. And I may have Ryan come up and help me with this, but I think I know
-- understand the basics, which is what we have today are -- are two types of these
fees. One is we have a cart fee to come out once and -- and rent a cart for your round.
That -- we already have that and I don't think that one's proposing to change at all;
right? We also have a fee where you can bring your own cart and -- and drive it on the
course, but what Ryan's been getting multiple requests for is I would like a season pass
fee to rent a cart for the season; is that correct?
Roberts: Correct.
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Siddoway: Okay.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: And just not being a huge golfer -- on my bucket list one day I will get to that
when I'm retired or something, but help me understand. So, do we have enough golf
carts -- like my concern with moving to that model would just be, you -- you need to
make sure season pass holders, then, have carts available for when they show up to
golf. So, do we have any constraints around the number of carts and how are you sort
of thinking through that?
Roberts: No. Good question.
Simison: You need to step up to the mic, Ryan.
Roberts: Good question. Thank you. No, I don't see a problem with it. Basically when
they come out we have enough carts -- we got 54 carts. It's just an option for people to
be able to use Lake View carts whenever they come and pay -- and pay an annual fee
for that.
Strader: Okay. So, you are not worried about like an oversubscription of carts in a
single day? Is the amount of carts related to the amount of rounds of golf that could
theoretically happen at any time? I'm sorry, I apologize that's really going down a rabbit
hole.
Roberts: No. That's okay. No, I don't see a problem. I would like to try it out this year
and see how it goes and come back with an analysis and -- but I don't see an issue with
us running out of carts.
Simison: In theory if they were to golf they would have been -- they would be renting a
golf cart anyways. I mean I have only walked 18 holes once in my life and that was two
weeks ago and I don't recommend it, but -- so, if they are going to golf anyways it's just
do they want to pay a flat fee for the year? That's really the thing.
Roberts: And we are probably renting a cart anyway.
Strader: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Strader.
Strader: Yeah. That's helpful. And the -- so, I did notice the weekly nine hole went
down and, I don't know, just some feedback. I wouldn't recommend necessarily
lowering anything. I would recommend maybe keeping it the same or if you feel like
there is some magic to being underneath the 30 dollar amount maybe come up from
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where that was, but close to 30. 1 just think in an inflationary environment where every
other fee is going up it just seems a little odd to me to have this one, unless there is
something really driving it besides the math, so, I don't know, my -- I guess my feedback
is, yeah, I think -- I think this makes some good sense. I think it makes sense to try to
do this market analysis that you did. I think that's a good approach to any kind of fee
setting. I do think if -- if we feel like it's important to offer to our Meridian residents first I
think that makes sense. I just think managing the messaging around that, so that there
isn't confusion, that -- I don't want nonresidents to think they can't golf there. So, I
guess that's my initial feedback. Thank you.
Taylor: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Taylor.
Taylor: Steven and Ryan, thank you. A couple of questions. One kind of just on
Council Woman Strader's comment about fees. Some of the price points -- I know we
are kind of driven by a formula, but they are kind of funny, like $34.15 or some kind of --
doesn't it make sense to just round them off, so that when -- because as a consumer
just --
Siddoway: So, yes, if you look at -- we did round them off, so that when a tax is added
it comes --
Taylor: Oh.
Siddoway: -- to a round number.
Taylor: Okay.
Siddoway: So, they are a funny number as the -- the base fee, so that they are a round
number when tax is added, because we do see that the people just wish it was a round
number that -- with tax your number is -- is X and when we looked across the valley
there is some variation. Some have -- but most have round numbers when the tax is
added, not round numbers before tax.
Taylor: So, Mr. Mayor, if I can just have a number of follow-up questions here. Is that
how you will display it on the website? The fee is the round number, so it's not kind of a
strange number, is that how you plan to kind of market it?
Roberts: Yes. Yes. And the other idea behind it, too, is when people come and check
in it's a lot easier for the staff to memorize pricing and say it's 34 dollars, it's not 32.58.
Taylor: Okay. Yeah. So, like when I call and say how much does it cost for a twilight?
It's -- right. Okay. My next question would be -- do you -- do you know the number of --
in our sort of competing or similar courses how many season passes they sell? Is there
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-- is that kind of matrix you ever shoot for? Is that kind of irrelevant? Or do we even
care?
Siddoway: I do not know the number. We just have the prices. Do you happen to know
the number?
Roberts: There are some courses that are starting to limit them to like 100 or 150
based on a certain season pass. I see some difference of -- of them all. So, there is a
little variation. Some courses are not limiting at all, but some are starting to move
towards that with season passes.
Siddoway: But just to clarify myself if I may. That would be a hundred on a -- like a
specific one, like one that allows weekend play not, a hundred between all --
Roberts: Correct.
Siddoway: Because that would be a lot different than our, you know, 225. But that's
why I think as we monitor this and manage it we may want to come back and say, you
know, these five we don't want to limit it all, but these five we want to limit. But that -- I
think that's for a future year not this year.
Taylor: Yeah. And that was kind of my follow up is do we -- do we want to limit them at
some point? And I see that sort of -- at some point you want people who are paying
and, obviously, that season pass is great, because there is some economies of scale
with your getting a better benefit hopefully, but, you know, understand the limit. Do we
know what that number should be? Is it 100, 150, 300? Do we have any sense for
that?
Siddoway: We know we sold over 200 this last year -- or combined; right? And -- and
that -- that's been right in the sweet spot. I have -- I have a love-hate relationship with
the idea of limiting them at all. In fact, I went to Robert and said, hey, I'm a little worried
about the season passes out, you know, taking space away from greens fees players,
which is where the money is really made and helps keep the -- the course profitable. At
the same time it's important to continue having those passes, because people -- they
love them and rely on them and there is a lot of regulars that buy them every year and
so I went back to and said, hey, I think we limit them and I went back to him and said,
hey, I think maybe we don't want to limit them and that what we decided was let's set a
number that we are comfortable with, because we need to get the word out that this isn't
just unlimited forever. You know, there is a finite number of these that we would sell.
We are not up against that wall yet, but there would be a point where we wouldn't want
to sell anymore. I mean do you want to characterize that any different, Mayor?
Simison: No. I think you have characterized it fine and I didn't hear any number yet, but
one of the questions I asked Steve is like on average how many rounds does someone
that buys a pass play, you know, tracking some of that information so we have a better
idea about what the value is -- a break even is a huge advantage? Is it a huge
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disadvantage, you know, because there is sometimes where selling a season pass
makes you a lot of money, because no one uses it and there is sometimes we are
selling a season pass means that you turn up like Bogus Basin you got to turn away day
people and they can't go up there and take advantage of it and you lose that revenue.
So, eventually, it will be a business decision I think for the city to how do we -- based on
our philosophy. But that's why we kind of went back and, yes, I asked Steve to keep it
in after -- because like I didn't bring this up, you guys brought it to me. Let's take it to
Council and get their feedback on it. And so that's why it's here. I talked to Councilman
Whitlock about it before he left. He agreed to leave it in, again, because everyone who
got one last year can get one this year under this scenario and track moving forward
what type of rounds people are playing off of the passes and making informed decision
maybe the next year or two about do we need to make changes or limit some and not
limit some.
Taylor: Yeah. And I think that -- I would agree with that. I think we want it to be
accessible as much as possible, but I think we just kind of need to figure out what that
number is and kind of play with that and that to your point, you know, I have a family
season pass at Bogus and I intend to fully make them basically pay me to show up,
because I'm going to show up so much, so -- but, you know, it -- if we want to make sure
we are having people come and, then, they are paying and paying for the services I
agree with that, but I do want there to be a sense that it's -- it's very friendly, open,
accessible. You know, if there is a business decision to limit it I -- I can support that. I
think I understand why we would do that. But probably -- it probably -- in my mind it
would be a few years of like looking at the data and the numbers to make an informed
decision and I would think, you know, if the trend continues where the rounds of golf are
increasing, you know, that data is going to be really helpful to look at over time to help
make an informed decision. So, I think that does make some sense. My last question
and, then, maybe just comment a little bit, you know, we have put a lot of money into the
facilities making it nice. We have some more investments with bathrooms and things
coming. How much of some of the increase in rounds do you attribute to like people
wanting to be out there versus, you know, how much marketing do we do? How many
other programs do you do to try to, you know, incentivize kids and families and stuff to
come kind of just golf there?
Siddoway: I will turn it over to Ryan, but I will just say anecdotally I believe a lot of it has
to do with the improvements that are made out there. It's a more attractive course. But
Ryan.
Roberts: Yeah. That has a lot to do with it. Also the junior programs you will bring a lot
of families in from our junior programs and what we do out there. A lot of those junior
programs parents are buying season passes. We have had kids, you know, we have
seen go to high school that have been coming there for as long as I have been there,
you know, six plus years, so that's how we get more people coming out there. So, it's a
combination of junior programs, lots of great tournaments, great facility, great staff, great
place to come.
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Taylor: Yeah. And I -- Mr. Mayor, I will -- just one last comment. Giving you a lot of my
money, because my kids have the youth on course pass, so I'm always going out there
and paying my full green fees and I'm like, man, maybe I ought to just get a pass, but --
so, anyway, it's -- it's the first time I golfed at Lakeview was probably six or seven years
ago and I didn't go back for a while and, then, the last time I went back -- I think it was
last year and this year I think I probably did ten or 12 rounds this year, but a significant
improvement over the first time I did it before the city took over. So, compliments to
what you guys are doing out there.
Siddoway: Thank you.
Little Roberts: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Council Woman Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: No questions. But since I already called Ryan and asked my questions
that were just kind of helping me figure out what they were working on and just great job
-- great job with the course. I think you are right on target with the price increases. I
think people are prepared for it, watching all the work that's been put into it, so kudos to
you, the team, everybody involved.
Siddoway: Thank you. So, my question is do we -- are there general agreement to
publish the -- the fees as shown on here? Do we -- as a group do we want to not
reduce the one that reduces or do we notice it this way and make that decision in a few
weeks? Any feedback on whether to publish them as is or make any changes before
we publish?
Taylor: Mr. Mayor?
Simison: Councilman Taylor.
Taylor: Just looking at it now that you have explained how you factored in the sales tax
on the one that you mentioned that went down, the current fee is 31.80. The proposed
fee would be 31. 1 mean I actually like the fact that you are kind of rounding it off. I
think that makes it easier to talk about what it costs. Excuse me. So, I'm personally
comfortable with what you have. I do have one more question I didn't ask before. I
think -- it seems like Lakeview's position as a family friendly course -- it's a place to
learn the game, so that when you are good enough you can go to Banbury and it
doesn't -- you know, it's not so painful to pay those -- those fees. You know, at some
point, you know, where do the fees kind of top out where you don't want to go beyond
that where you are starting to make it kind of like -- it's kind of hard. I mean if I took --
you know, if I take my two kids, my wife and myself -- we golf and we rent a cart it's still
pretty expensive. But I do think it's important to like -- I like that Lakeview is viewed as
sort of that family friendly like getting people into the game and learning it. It's a great --
great way to spend time I -- I guess you don't have to answer this question. My
suggestion is that we strive for that as we look at the next few years to make sure that
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it's still family friendly, because there is plenty of expensive golf courses and I don't want
it to be the cheapest, because I want it to be a nice course to play on, but I -- I -- you
know, just my feedback in terms of when we are looking at fee structures.
Simison: I'm happy to take that one just from a -- you know, our -- our goal has been --
with the bringing on the -- on the golf course to have offset costs so they are
operationally the two net out as zero and I think with these changes if the golf goes up
and with some other changes that you are going to see, the pool, we might be getting
pretty close to that number and, then, it just becomes can we maintain that as -- as we
pay staff more, as costs go up there maybe -- but maybe we don't look at where we are
in the market as much, but we keep it at what are -- are we able to maintain that cost
recovery element overall and I think that would be my recommendation to Steve is once
we kind of get to that point that you level said it, but we don't want to -- if we can recover
some more we do that by finding that sweet spot.
Siddoway: And I can provide numbers, but that's the philosophy we are aiming for. Just
big picture.
Simison: Okay.
Siddoway: And we will see that we will -- we will notice these fees and be back to you in
a few weeks.
Simison: Okay.
Siddoway: Thanks.
Roberts: Thank you.
Simison: Thanks, Steve. Thanks, Ryan. All right. With that we have reached the end
of our agenda. Do I have a motion?
Strader: Mr. Mayor, move we adjourn the meeting.
Simison: Motion to adjourn. All in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay? The
ayes have it. We are adjourned.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO ABSENT.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 4:57 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
MAYOR ROBERT E. SIMISON 11-6-2024
ATTEST:
CHRIS JOHNSON - CITY CLERK
11-6-2024