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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1994-11-09 MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION NOVEMBER 9, 1994 The regular meeting of the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission was called to order by Chairman Jim Johnson at 7:30 P.M.: MEMBERS PRESENT: Moe Alidjani, Tim Hepper, Charlie Rountree, Jim Shearer: OTHERS PRESENT: Will Berg, Wayne Crookston, Gary Smith, Shari Stiles, Michael Christensen, Lynn Jones, Dennis Burgh, John Thom, N.M.D., Shelly Thom, Dave Leader, Chris Williams, Doug Campbell, Shirley and Larry Chetwood, Richard Newman, Karin and Larry Hagan, Wayne Forrey, Steve Jensen, Malcom MacCoy, Clyde Wheeler, Don Bryan: MINUTES OF PREVIOUS MEETING HELD OCTOBER 11, 1994: Johnson: Are there any corrections, deletions or additions? Rountree: On page 21, about 1/4 up from the bottom there is reference to lot sizes, these are a little over it should be 13,000, there is an extra zero. On page 25, about 2/3 down the page, "Commissioner Hepper (inaudible) 1500 square foot" should be minimum. And on page 74, the last comment, Judy Jones, the second sentence it should be lot not Lo 8. Johnson: Any other corrections? I will entertain a motion for approval. Alidjani: Mr. Chairman, I make a motion that we approve the minutes from the previous meeting October 11, 1994 with the corrections that Commissioner Rountree has made. Rountree: Second Johnson: We have a motion and a second to approve the minutes as amended, all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea MINUTES OF SPECIAL MEETING HELD OCTOBER 17, 1994: Johnson: Are there any changes you wish to make to these minutes? Rountree: Mr. Chairman, I move that we approve the minutes of the special meeting October 17, 1994. Hepper: Second Johnson: We have a motion and a second for approval of these minutes as written, all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #1: TABLED: ANNEXATION AND ZONING REQUEST BY E.L. BEWS: Johnson: We have a letter we received dated November 7, 1994 from Mr. Bews asking that we table this annexation request again and if we do so we need to do so to a date certain. Alidjani: Is there a special request? Johnson: No, there is no special request for a date. Shearer: Mr. Chairman, I move we table this until the December meeting. Crookston: Mr. Chairman, I am not sure if this is waiting for a medical or a hospital zone. We would not have one in effect by then. Johnson: Well, you are probably right but we can still do that. We can pick another date if you want. Rountree: Can we suspend action on that until we have the zone? Crookston: You might as well table it until you do have that zoning. Shearer: I withdraw my motion and I move that we table this until we have the health services zone approved. Rountree: Second Johnson: I guess what we are saying is that it is a dead issue until we have a zone, in other words if they requested another zone at that time then we can do that. We have a motion to table and a second until an HS or Health Services zone is approved and added to our zoning ordinance, all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #2: TABLED: FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT REQUEST FOR ASHFORD GREENS SUBDIVISION BY BRIGHTON CORPORATION: Johnson: I call your attention to a letter we have received from Mr. Mike Wardle. Do the Commissioners have that letter I make reference to? Any discussion, what is your Meridian Planning & Zoning November 9, 1994 Page 3 pleasure. Hepper: Mr. Chairman, in this letter there are some recommendations for approval decided by the applicant, there are several of those. If we approved those would we need to read those individually? Johnson: You can but it is a matter of record, apparently Will didn't get a copy of it but it went to the Mayor and our City Attorney. Hepper: I think I basically approve of the recommendations that they propose, I have a couple others that I would consider. I think under the medium density they are talking about town houses, patio homes and there is something else, cluster houses. I think maybe under the recommendations that are stated maybe not have apartments allowed since that is an R-8 zone. We would want to have only owner occupied, I don't know that we would want to allow apartment houses out there, maybe we would. It just depends o the discussion. Also, I think there should be a square footage discussion. If we pass this as an R-8 we could have as low as 1000 feet with apartments, I am not sure that is their intention. Johnson: Well, Mr. Wardle is here and you are certainly welcome to ask him any questions or you can discuss among yourselves. I think he has made an effort to address our concerns before. Mr. Wardle would you like to come forward please. Hepper: You mentioned the condos, town houses or even cluster homes, would you have any intentions of putting apartments out there? Wardle: Mr. Chairman, Mr. Hepper, I have not heard any discussions by the applicant for apartments, Mr. Turnbull is here and he can specifically address that but I haven't heard any discussion of any apartments. I believe the comment about owner occupied is the intent, it would meet a market demand that is not currently present in that area and that would be in town house and condos that would apply to perhaps more of a senior community those that are in a retirement that want to be in or around the golf course, but there has been no discussion of apartments. Hepper: What about square footage requirement, have you considered square footage? Wardle: Again, Mr. Chairman and Mr. Hepper, with those we have really not detailed that site or either of those 2 parcels. There has been no discussion of that and I think that the commission has the option under standards in the ordinances to address the issue. Meridian Planning & Zoning November 9, 1994 Page 4 Hepper: I think rather than to give up our right to place a square footage requirement on there, if we allow R-8 on there right now without stipulating than you can go down to as low as 1000 square feet. I think as this point what would be appropriate to make a 1300 square foot minimum which is the other alternative for R-8. And then when you come in later and you have a different request we can review it at that time. Would you have a problem with that? Wardle: Mr. Chairman, can Mr. Turnbull the developer address that? Johnson: Yes Turnbull: Mr. Chairman, I think your point is well taken, I again, I think the intent here is for us to come up with a master plan for what Mr. Wardle suggested as more in line with the retirement community. As you are aware many of those people are empty nesters and obviously they don't need as much space as a family with 2 kids or 3 kids and so forth. We want to come up with a master plan and if you wanted to designate the 1300 square footage now I would hope that you would do it with the idea in mind that is not set in concrete and if we come in with a master plan community that shows and there will no doubt be some variety I'm sure that there will be units that exceed 1300, 1400, 1500 square feet but we want to be able to have the flexibility to provide a master plan that will meet that market segment in that community. As far as your comment about rentals, I think the intent this is not an apartment complex per say, it is more centered around the market demand of retirement communities. It is not to say that some of the homes wouldn't be owner occupied and then perhaps some of them might not even as standard subdivisions some homes rent out. But it is not your standard apartment type project. Hepper: I would be willing to look at the square footage later on when we see more of a detailed setting but I think right now rather than to give up that option I think we would like to have it set at 1300. Turnbull: And I don't mind just stating that I would like it stated just for the record that you are open to the option of varying sizes when the master plan is submitted. Hepper: Right, that is fine with me. Johnson: Any further discussion? We need to act on this. Rountree: Mr. Chairman, I move that we have the current findings and facts and conclusions revised to reflect the comments provided by the engineering firm on this Meridian Planning & Zoning November 9, 1994 Page 5 project with respect to medium density parcels, long strings of 75 foot lots, the comments addressed by Commissioner Hepper and upon revision of the findings of fact to pass a favorable recommendation onto the City Council. Shearer: Second Johnson: We have a motion and a second to amend the findings of facts as stated and pass a favorable recommendation for approval onto the City Council, all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #3: FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW FOR ANNEXATION AND ZONING REQUEST FOR PNE/EDMONDS CONSTRUCTION: Johnson: Any comments or discussion regarding these findings of facts? These are the findings that you re-wrote? Crookston: I believe so, I have not checked again after I submitted them to the City. If it says new copy. Rountree: Mr. Chairman, I have several corrections to consider on the new copy of these findings of fact. On page 2, item 2, 4th line down, "it is located between Locust Grove and Meridian Road" it should be Eagle Road. Page 3, item 10, reference should be to Butch Suor in the last paragraph. Page 4, item B, same reference to Mr. Suor. Item F, testimony of Dale Sharp need to have a gender change there with she to he in the text. And item G, the third line, "that he desired 2 story houses" correct the spelling on story. Johnson: Any further corrections? Any further discussion? Rountree: Mr. Chairman, I move the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission hereby adopts and approves these findings of facts and conclusions. Hepper: Second Johnson: Its moved and seconded to approve the findings of fact and conclusions of law with the corrections stated by Mr. Rountree, roll call vote. ROLL CALL VOTE: Hepper - Yea, Rountree - Yea, Shearer - Yea, Alidjani - Yea Meridian Planning & Zoning November 9, 1994 Page 6 MOTION CARRIED: All Yea Johnson: Any decision or recommendation you wish to pass on to the City? Rountree: Mr. Chairman, I move the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission hereby recommends that the application for annexation and zoning be tabled. If the applicant shall not meet these conditions as stated in these findings of facts the application shall be denied. Shearer: Second Johnson: The recommendation for City Council is for tabling, if the conditions are not met as stated the application be denied, all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #4: FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW FOR REZONE REQUEST WITH A PRELIMINARY PLAT FOR BEDELCO BUSINESS AND LIVING CENTER BY BEDELCO INC.: Johnson: Any comments, changes regarding these findings of fact? I have one on page 4, item #9, it states "there was oral testimony objecting to this rezone" with respect to Mr. Ward item E, I believe he was testifying in favor as opposed to objecting. So he was lumped in with those objecting that and that needs to be corrected. Crookston: I would suggest that we just take out objecting. Johnson: That would do it. Any other changes? Any further discussion? Alidjani: Mr. Chairman, I make a motion that Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission hereby adopts and approves these findings of fact and conclusions. Rountree: Second Johnson: Its been moved and seconded that we approve the findings of fact and conclusions as written with the one change so stated, roll call vote. ROLL CALL VOTE: Hepper - Yea, Rountree - Yea, Shearer - Yea, Alidjani - Yea MOTION CARRIED: All Yea Johnson: Any decision or recommendation for the City of Meridian City Council? Meridian Planning & Zoning November 9, 1994 Page 7 Alidjani: Mr. Chairman, I make a motion that the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission hereby recommends to the City Council of the City of Meridian that the application for the rezone from I-L Light Industrial to R-15 Residential should be denied. Shearer: Second Johnson: It is moved and seconded to recommend to the City Council that the application for rezone be denied, all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #5: FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW FOR ANNEXATION AND ZONING REQUEST WITH A PRELIMINARY PLAT FOR PACKARD SUBDIVISION BY PNE/EDMONDS CONSTRUCTION: Johnson: Are there any changes to the findings of fact as prepared by our City Attorney or any discussion? Rountree: Mr. Chairman, I have a couple of changes. On page 2, top of the page, 4th line down, subdivision and it is north of Doris Subdivision, it is actually south of Carol Subdivision. Johnson: We have south of Carol in the sentence before it, does that read right repeating it? Or does it just need to be eliminated? Rountree: Just strike that phrase, "and it is north of Doris Subdivision". And on page 3, item 10, just for clarification Mr. Bryan's testimony when he is referring to road right of way is his access to the water head gate, it is the access way along Stokesbury Lateral. Johnson: Is that item A did you say? Rountree: I think Johnson: Read the entire sentence please the way it should read. Rountree: "He later testified that the access way along Stokesbury lateral was his access to his water head gate." Meridian Planning & Zoning November 9, 1994 Page 8 Johnson: Okay, so you are eliminating road right of way? Rountree: Yes Johnson: Jumping back there Charlie to your item #2 correction, it still reads clumsily. A subdivision of lots of 1 acre (inaudible). Rountree: (Inaudible) Alidjani: Aren't they all 1 acre? Johnson: One acre or more. Crookston: There may be one or 2 that are half acres. Johnson: I think most of them are an acre. Rountree: Well, to avoid any confusion strike the rest of that sentence, I don't think it has. Johnson: What else? Anyone else have any corrections or comments? Rountree: Mr. Chairman, I move that the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission hereby adopts and approves these findings of fact and conclusions of law. Alidjani: Second Johnson: We have a motion and a second for approval of the findings of fact and conclusions of law as amended, corrected, roll call vote. ROLL CALL VOTE: Hepper - Yea, Rountree - Yea, Shearer - Yea, Alidjani - Yea MOTION CARRIED: All Yea Johnson: Is there a recommendation you wish to pass onto the City Council? Rountree: Mr. Chairman, I move the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission hereby recommends that the application for annexation and zoning be tabled. If the applicant shall not meet the conditions the application shall be denied. Alidjani: Second Meridian Planning & Zoning November 9, 1994 Page 9 Johnson: The recommendation to the City Council is to table the application for annexation and if conditions are not met the application be denied, all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #6: FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW FOR ANNEXATION AND ZONING REQUEST WITH A PRELIMINARY PLAT FOR GREENHAVEN ESTATES BY THE DEVELOPMENT COMPANY: Johnson: Same process, any additions, correction or comments regarding these findings of fact as prepared? Hepper: I had a comment Mr. Chairman about the square footage, there was some discussion at the last meeting by some of the neighbors that they would like to see a little bigger minimum square footage of 1400 square feet. The property to the south as 1700 and the property to the north has a couple of houses that are 2200 and 2600 square feet. I think it would be appropriate to increase the square footage of those houses, we have done that in several other instances where others have gone in ahead of time before and placed in bigger houses in the subdivision to protect the property values of those people. Johnson: And your recommendation would be? Hepper: I am not sure, one of the request was for 1600 square foot minimum, the property to the south has 1700 square feet written into its covenants. I think 1500 or 1600 would be appropriate. Johnson: Anyone else wish to comment on that suggestion? Hepper: Mr. Chairman, I move the findings of fact reflect a minimum square footage of 1600 square feet be placed on the houses for the subdivision. I guess that can be part of the approval of the findings of facts, let me make that as a motion. The Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission hereby adopts and approves these findings of fact and conclusions with the stipulation the square footage requirement reflect a 1600 square foot minimum. Rountree: Second Johnson: It is moved and seconded to approve the findings of fact and conclusions of law with the house size restriction being held at 1600 square foot minimum, is there any further discussion? If not this is a roll call vote. Meridian Planning & Zoning November 9, 1994 Page 10 ROLL CALL VOTE: Hepper - Yea, Rountree - Yea, Shearer - Yea, Alidjani - Yea MOTION CARRIED: All Yea Johnson: Recommendation? Hepper: Mr. Chairman, I move the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission hereby recommends to the City of Meridian that the property be annexed and zoned R-4 Residential with the conditions set forth in the findings of fact and conclusions of law and that the applicant and owners be specifically required to tile all ditches, canals and water ways and install a pressurized irrigation system as conditions of annexation. And that the applicant meet all the ordinances of the City of Meridian specifically including the development time requirements and enter into a required development agreement. And then if the conditions are not met that the property be deannexed. Rountree: Second Johnson: We have a motion and a second to pass a recommendation as prepared onto the City Council, all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #7: FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW FOR A REZONE REQUEST BY DIANE AND ROBERT LANG: Johnson: Are there any corrections or additions or discussion to these findings of facts? I have a question on page 6, item 7 for the City Attorney. Do vehicles have eyes, how does that work? Is that a common phrase that I am not aware of? Are there any other changes or questions or smart remarks concerning these findings of fact and conclusions of law? I will entertain a motion. Alidjani: Mr. Chairman, I will make a motion that the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission hereby adopt and approve these findings of fact and conclusions of law and also with the correction of the eyes of the drivers not the vehicles. Rountree: Second Johnson: We have a motion and a second to approve the findings of fact and conclusions of law as prepared by the City Attorney with the one correction, roll call vote. Meridian Planning & Zoning November 9, 1994 Page 11 ROLL CALL VOTE: Alidjani - Yea, Shearer - Yea, Rountree - Yea, Hepper - Yea MOTION CARRIED: All Yea Johnson: Any decision or recommendation onto the City Council? Alidjani: Mr. Chairman, I make a motion that the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission hereby recommends to the City Council of the City of Meridian that they approve the rezone request by the applicant for the property described in the application with the conditions set forth in the findings of fact and conclusions of law. And that the property be required to meet the comments of the Meridian Departments and the other governmental agencies. Rountree: Second Johnson: It is moved and seconded that we pass a recommendation as stated by Commissioner Alidjani onto the City Council, all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #8: FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR TACO BELL RESTAURANT BY JONATHAN GIBB: Johnson: Any corrections or comments regarding the findings of fact as prepared by the City Attorney? I will entertain a motion then. Hepper: Mr. Chairman, I move the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission hereby adopts and approves these findings of fact and conclusions. Rountree: Second Johnson: Moved and seconded to approve the findings of fact and conclusions of law as prepared by Mr. Crookston, roll call vote. ROLL CALL VOTE: Alidjani - Yea, Shearer - Yea, Rountree - Yea, Hepper - Yea MOTION CARRIED: All Yea Hepper: Mr. Chairman, I move the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission hereby recommends to the City Council of the City of Meridian that they approve the conditional use permit requested by the applicant for the property described in the Meridian Planning & Zoning November 9, 1994 Page 12 application with the conditions set forth in the findings of fact and conclusions of law. Shearer: Second Johnson: It is moved and seconded to pass a recommendation on as prepared in the text, all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #9: FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW FOR ANNEXATION AND ZONING REQUEST WITH A PRELIMINARY PLAT FOR DANBURY FAIR SUBDIVISION NO. 5, 6, AND 7 BY BW, INC.: Johnson: Any comments regarding the findings of facts? Entertain a motion for approval then. Shearer: Mr. Chairman, I move the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission hereby adopts and approves these findings of fact and conclusions. Alidjani: Second Johnson: Moved and seconded to approve the findings of fact and conclusions of law as prepared, roll call vote. ROLL CALL VOTE: Hepper - Yea, Rountree - Yea, Shearer - Yea, Alidjani - Yea MOTION CARRIED: All Yea Shearer: Mr. Chairman, I move the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission hereby recommend to the City Council of the City of Meridian that they approve the annexation and zoning as stated above in the findings of fact for the property described in the application with the conditions set forth in the findings of fact and conclusions of law. And that if the conditions are not met the property shall not be annexed or if the land is already annexed then it should be deannexed. Rountree: Second Johnson: We have a motion to pass a recommendation on as prepared and stated, all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea Meridian Planning & Zoning November 9, 1994 Page 13 Johnson: We didn't deal with the preliminary plat, did we address that in the findings? Crookston: I don't address that in the findings. Johnson: We need to do that. Rountree: Mr. Chairman, can I ask a direct question to the City Engineer? Johnson: Absolutely, that is what he is here for, he feels left out if we don't. Rountree: I don't recall that there were any specifics outstanding on that preliminary plat, do you have any Gary? Smith: We are talking about Grove Run? Rountree: Danbury Fair. Smith: Commissioner Rountree, what was it specifically that you asked? Rountree: Was there any outstanding concern on the preliminary plat for 5, 6 and 7? Smith: Nothing other than the comments that we raised at the time we reviewed it. Crookston: The square footage on the lots that were in the original Danbury Fair need to be stated on the plat. Shearer: We have those stated in the findings. Rountree: (Inaudible) Crookston: I think on the plat each lot is supposed to show the size of house that can be or may be constructed on that lot as a minimum. Rountree: Mr. Chairman, I move that with the provisions of revising the preliminary plat to state residential size on the lots that we pass a favorable recommendation to the City Council. Shearer: Second Johnson: It is moved and seconded that we pass a favorable recommendation onto the Meridian Planning & Zoning November 9, 1994 Page 14 City Council on the preliminary plat as stated by Commissioner Rountree, all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #10: FINDINGS OF FACT AND CONCLUSIONS OF LAW FOR ANNEXATION AND ZONING REQUEST WITH A PRELIMINARY PLAT FOR GROVE RUN SUBDIVISION BY JLG BUILDERS: Rountree: On page 15 there are 2 items 17. Johnson: Shall we make the second one 18? Rountree: Sounds good to me. Johnson: Anything else? Rountree: Mr. Chairman, I move the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission hereby adopts and approves these findings of fact and conclusions of law. Shearer: Second Johnson: Its been moved and seconded that the Meridian Planning and Zoning adopt findings of fact and conclusions of law as prepared with the one editorial correction, roll call vote. ROLL CALL VOTE: Hepper - Yea, Rountree - Yea, Shearer - Yea, Alidjani - Yea MOTION CARRIED: All Yea Rountree: Mr. Chairman, I move the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission recommends to the City Council that the property should be annexed and zoned R-8 if the applicant meets the conditions stated here within the findings of fact and any adopted by the City Council. If the applicant shall not meet these conditions and those adopted by the City Council the application should be denied. Shearer: Second Johnson: We have a motion and a second to pass a recommendation onto City Council as prepared, all those in favor? Opposed? Meridian Planning & Zoning November 9, 1994 Page 15 MOTION CARRIED: All Yea Johnson: There is a preliminary plat on this application (End of Tape). Any discussion regarding the preliminary plat? Rountree: I have the same question as I previously (inaudible) Gary Smith, any outstanding comments or concerns on that plat? Smith: No Commissioner nothing other than my original comments. Rountree: Mr. Chairman, I make a motion that we pass a favorable recommendation onto City Council on the preliminary plat for Grove Run Subdivision. Shearer: Second Johnson: It is moved and seconded that we pass a favorable recommendation for the preliminary plat to the City Council, all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #11: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR AN AUTOMOTIVE DEALERSHIP BY LAWRENCE AND SHIRLEY CHETWOOD: Johnson: At this time the Commission would invite the applicant or his representative to come forward and address the Commission. You will need to be sworn. Richard Newman, P.O. Box 6264, Olympia, Washington, was sworn by the City Attorney. Newman: I am here on behalf of Larry and Shirley Chetwood this evening to present their interest in a new piece of property to relocate their current Ford store out to Interstate 84. And I believe we have submitted and staff has circulated a information package concerning our compliance with the Comprehensive Plan and the staff I believe has made their recommendations for this project given the criteria that has been set forth for it. I would like to introduce myself again, BP Grouping specializes in the automobile development design and construction process. We travel all over the western United States putting facilities together for people like the Chetwood's. Our experience working with over 40 or 50 automotive dealerships has brought us here tonight to explain the unique characteristics of this project. My partner by the way is Dennis Birch, he is right here, he is a Vice President in our company, I am the President of this company. When I say we represent the interest of Meridian Ford, Meridian Planning & Zoning November 9, 1994 Page 16 Meridian Ford has been in business here since 1979, most of you are already aware of that. And certainly you are all aware of Shirley and Larry Chetwood. They currently employ about 40 employees, their sales are over $18 million a year which is fairly significant for the community. Their current store size is only 8,000 square feet and by today's standards that is small even for small automobile stores. Their business like many businesses in Meridian have experienced significant growth over the last few years. And because of this growth they have totally outgrown their current facility. By offering a full service automobile service that they do they are no longer capable of meeting the demands of the local community. What they are lacking is room for servicing these vehicles, for displaying these vehicles, for handling the parts to repair these vehicles and that has forced them into seeking and looking for a new piece of property which they have located as described in our presentation. Their current site obviously has limited access, as today's standards not in the best location for an automobile store. It does have a high volume and because of the size of this property they have located this piece which is now I think more than 8 or 9 acres. What I would like to do is read to you what the criteria is for the new store, part of which is in your packet. I think it is important for you to recognize what we have to go through in finding a piece of property which makes this piece of property they found very favorable towards the automobile business. The characteristics for this store, the site generally needs to be in close proximity to a major freeway, arterial streets which handle (inaudible) flow. The site must demonstrate acceptable current future traffic volumes so the store will have long term business vitality. The site must have easy access from the major road systems to accommodate spontaneous buyers. This subject property above all others has the greatest accessibility to service this spontaneous buyer. The site must have excellent visibility of course in this location it does. Usable land area for any automotive dealership today should be more than 5 acres particularly for the volume of business that the Chetwood's are having today, this site accomplishes that and provides for a 20 year growth plan. The site should be relatively flat or nearly so, square or rectangular. This will accommodate vehicle display, visibility and on site traffic management and it best accommodates the building design we have proposed. The site shall not be adjacent to any other automobile dealerships. The site should be free of hazardous materials which we believe this site is. The site shall be serviced by public services and utilities, such as police and fire. The land should be purchased not leased. The site shall allow for the long term diversification of growth as market demands change and obviously they have experienced that a great deal today. There shall be no easements that adversely affect this site. The site that they have selected in Meridian is ideal for automobile dealerships based on the criteria that we see throughout the United States today, the manufacturers require it. They have been fortunate enough to find a very unique piece of property to expand their business on. We have a couple of letters that one we would like to have read into the record, one, these are letters for this project. The first letter is from the Meridian Chamber of Meridian Planning & Zoning November 9, 1994 Page 17 Commerce. And the second letter is from Western States Catapillar Company, both of which I would like to submit (inaudible). I think the information that we have presented to the Commission is substantive and it explains our position in detail. There was one clarification that I wanted to make at this point and actually it is a correction. The response from the irrigation department, Nampa Meridian Irrigation District letter had said that their concern was for the Eight Mile and the Five Mile Drains possibly would pass on this property. We met with the irrigation district shop superintendent today, Bill Henson, who submitted this report and he said that when he first examined this project he was looking at the wrong parcel of property. They will write a letter that corrects their comments concerning these 2 drains. And with that I have no further information to present to you this evening other than both Dennis and I and the Chetwood's are here to answer any questions that the Commission might have. Johnson: We probably do have a couple questions, for the record these letters are both in support of the development. Meridian Chamber of Commerce letterhead is actually a letter written by Bernice Tisdale the Chairman of Economic Development Committee for the Chamber and the second is a letter by Mr. Jim King, Vice President and Treasurer of Western States and that is favorable as well. We will enter those into the record at this time. Any questions of Mr. Newman? Rountree: Have you seen the comments from ACHD, the City Planner and the City Engineer? Newman: Yes we have. Rountree: Do you have a problem with any of those? Newman: We have mentioned to staff, comment concerning the landscape requirements for the site. We are not opposed to the landscaping requirements that have been outlined in staff's report, but we have some concerns about the type of landscaping that has been specified. Not in volume or quantity but more in type. We would like to offer an opportunity to staff or ourselves to work with staff to come up with a landscaping plan that is unique and positive for the automotive dealership. These stores are very unique in that they are a very large retail business today as opposed to the images of automobile dealerships of years ago where they were sort of front end, get the car sold and then the back end wasn't looked at much because of the mechanical things that went on. Today they are very much retail oriented, lots of different sales beside cars. Because of the display requirements for the vehicles, static display large trees tend to restrict the visibility of the display areas for the automobiles. Leaf trees also create some problems for cleanliness, keeping the vehicles clean. We don't have an alternate plan for landscaping but we would be willing Meridian Planning & Zoning November 9, 1994 Page 18 to sit down with the staff and work with them to gain some better descriptions or mixes of types of plants for this site that would accommodate both the requirements of the City for its landscaping codes as well as providing the Chetwoods with the opportunity for an enhanced display area. But that is the only issue we have with regard to the staff's findings. Johnson: I think I can speak for the City that we would welcome your input on that. We are in the middle of a long time going thing here but we are in the middle of revising and developing a more comprehensive and appropriate landscape plan for the City of Meridian. So we would appreciate your input on that. That is the type of information we need, landscaping (inaudible) certain type business particularly visibility I can certainly understand and also the cleanliness. So we would be glad to sit down with you on that, I am on that committee as well. Newman: We work extensively with a lot of communities, specifically with regard to landscaping and we have employed some very capable civil engineer. Johnson: I would be interested in what you have done elsewhere (inaudible). I have one comment, just curiosity more than anything. It is not specific to this application, but for my own education, ideally the site you stated should not be adjacent to other automobile dealerships that doesn't seem to be the trend. Are we getting away again from locating them all together? Newman: These are ideal situations, obviously it is competitive driven. If you, there are automobile malls, we build the automobile malls. And for many years I would say that for the last 10 years there has been a lot of pro and con with regard to the value of automobile malls. The trend right now does not seem to be a congregate collection, cities and counties like to see zoning of automobile dealerships in specific areas because of what is the perception of draw. What is unique about the automobile dealership however as a retail business is that it is very stand alone and it causes very little (inaudible) of other businesses. And because of that you do not get a lot of growth around an automobile dealership, specifically with competition manufacturers like to stand alone facilities, preferably stand alone facilities. If they are multiple brands that particular dealer, it is more advantageous for them to carry multiple brands rather than to be in a automobile mall. The difficulty with malls just for an information stand point, generally the sites and pads are small. They take 5 dealers that need 5 acres and that is a lot of land, 5 acres we would say is a minimum to allow 20 year growth. There tends to be a lot of competition for display and advertising and positioning. If the sites were larger, allowing more growth for the individual store owners the auto mall concept actually is a positive. But in this case, as we have seen in the various stores that we have worked the preference is to stand alone. Meridian Planning & Zoning November 9, 1994 Page 19 Johnson: I was just curious because of what I see going on in Boise (inaudible) dealership on Fairview which is surrounded by new and used, so I was just curious. Any questions of Mr. Newman? Rountree: I have a question about the concept layout here with respect to a couple of comments you just made. It shows a 2.7 acre site abutting Overland, any possibility of what that might be used for? Newman: There is another correction to be made, when we were first putting this together we had some very preliminary ideas on land use for that site. And actually our CAD entry person had put in leased property because at one time we had discussed with the Chetwood's the possibility of having that as a future growth or some diversification. At this point that is not going to be leased property, in fact we will submit a correction to that. We have mentioned that to staff already. That 2. some acres of land will be held in reserve for future growth for the Ford Store. Johnson: Any other questions. Thank you very much, this is a public hearing is there anyone that would like to address the Commission on this application? Larry Hagan, 2065 East Fairview, Meridian, was sworn by the City Attorney. Hagan: Is this the site on Fairview that we are discussing? Johnson: No, this is not, this is the site on Overland by the Interstate, next to Western States. Hagan: Is there one going to be? Johnson: Item #14 Hagan: I will wait until then. Johnson: That will be a little later, a couple more public hearings. Anyone else from the public like to address the Commission on this application? Seeing no one then I will close the public hearing. Rountree: Mr. Chairman, I move that we have findings of fact and conclusions of law prepared on this application with a favorable recommendation. Alidjani: Second Meridian Planning & Zoning November 9, 1994 Page 20 Johnson: We have a motion for approval of the findings of fact and conclusions of law and a favorable recommendation to the City Council, all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #12: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A GROUP DAY CARE BY LARRY STOKER: Johnson: The Commission would invite the applicant or his representative to come forward at this time and be sworn. Lynn Jones, 3660 South Cole Road, Boise, was sworn by the City Attorney. Jones: Mr. Chairman, members of the Commission thank you. As I stated my name is Lynn Jones, I own and operate several day cares in Boise and have for the last approximately 9 years. One of the problems with day care is that it is ever changing. One of the big demands right now in the day care business is for more in home child cares. The clients seem to be moving away from the large centers and like to take their children to small in home in neighborhoods. What we are proposing on Tall Pine is a home for 12 children day care. We have located the site so that it would not impact traffic do the subdivision. We have taken the entry lot into the subdivision on a major street coming off of Pine Street right across the street from a school so as not to impact traffic into the subdivision. We have designed the home from the beginning with the ability to due child care in it so that we meet the maximum square footage for childcare and also meeting the requirements for bathroom facilities, I know the Central District Health needs to go along with doing child care. Johnson: Thank you Mr. Jones, any questions? Rountree: What ages of child care would you provide? Jones: We are looking at zero up to age 10. Rountree: What hours? Jones: From 7 to 6. Hepper: Would there be somebody living in it? Jones: Yes, the actual attendant lives in the home, it is designed to live as a home of Meridian Planning & Zoning November 9, 1994 Page 21 the attendant that lives there and takes care of the children. Hepper: You have a note on the plan there that the garage area is proposed as part of the day care area. Jones: Right Hepper: I have a question for the City Attorney, if the garage is used as a day care area does that violate our City ordinance that a 2 car garage is required for a residence? Crookston: It probably would. Hepper: The way I understand it you would either have to build a 2 car garage or not use the existing garage, because the City Ordinance requires a 2 car garage for every residence. Is that a problem. Jones: How much area is needed for the parking of the garage? Hepper: 400 square feet. Rountree: In addition you would have to provide parking for the staff. Jones: On that house plan, what we have is a 3 car garage site plan on there with the off street parking that would accommodate 3 vehicles. Johnson: Have you talked to Gary Smith about the parking plan and such, I believe he made reference to wanting to see a detailed parking plan. Jones: No I have not. Johnson: Are you familiar with these comments, have you read them? Jones: No I have not received them. Johnson: We will make those available to you tonight. I have another question, you may have addressed it and I might have missed it but specifically what do the covenants in that subdivision say with respect to running a commercial operation in the subdivision? Jones: On the covenants there was no restrictions that you couldn't do a child care Meridian Planning & Zoning November 9, 1994 Page 22 center in that subdivision. Johnson: Anyone else have a question? Rountree: Just a question, I don't have it, that is an R-8 zone? Shari says it is. Johnson: Thank you Mr. Jones, this is a public hearing, anyone else like to address the commission on this application? Seeing no one then I will close the public hearing. Conditional use permit request, we need action. Hepper: Since this would be a violation of the City ordinances would it be appropriate to table this project until we get a different plat? Or give the applicant a chance to. Johnson: That would be one approach or you could make it a condition. Hepper: That a 2 car garage be required. Mr. Chairman, I move we have the City Attorney prepared findings on this with particular attention to the parking and the 2 car garage requirement under City Ordinances. Rountree: Second Johnson: It is moved and seconded that we have the City Attorney prepare findings and facts and conclusions of law on the application and address parking and the ordinance requiring 2 car garage, all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #13: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR REZONE FROM R-15 TO L-O BY JOHN THOM: Johnson: If the applicant or his representative is here would you please come forward and be sworn at this time. Alidjani: Mr. Chairman, I have a conflict of interest in this application, I wish to step down. John Thom, 8665 West Antelope Lane, Boise, was sworn by the City Attorney. Thom: Mr. Chairman, members of the Council, I am purchasing the Meridian Intermediate School building from Mr. Alidjani and on advice of Mrs. Stiles applied for a rezone from residential R-15 to a Limited Office use so that we wouldn't have to apply Meridian Planning & Zoning November 9, 1994 Page 23 for conditional use permits every time someone went into the building. It is our intent to remodel the building. I take formal ownership on the second day of January of 1995. And beginning in January of 1995 American Paving will begin excavating the exterior of the property removing all of the debris and shrubbery and the old broken down concrete and totally renew the landscaping, black topping, putting in storm drainage and things of that nature. Also in January of 1995 we will replace 226 broken windows in the building and begin remodeling the interior which has been very badly damaged by juveniles over the past 5 years. I would like to put to bed some rumors about this building. Number 1 it has never been condemned, there are rumors all over that this building has been condemned by the City by the school by engineers and etc. The building has not been condemned. The only thing close to condemnation was a letter by Keith Jones to the Meridian Library Board in July requesting an engineering report whether the building would handle the Meridian Public Library. It will not, it requires a 150 pounds per square foot floor load and the building was not designed for that. I have further been contacted by the State of Idaho Historical Preservation Council, also by the Meridian Historical Society and several people about keeping the building as close to its natural state as possible. This building, I have found out from the Idaho State Historical Preservation Society is the first concrete poured building west of Denver, Colorado. It is the first concrete poured building in the State of Idaho and all other western states. There is a great desire for this building to be preserved and entered into the Historical registry. I agreed today with the State of Idaho and they are sending me the necessary papers to enter this building on the historical registry subject to the City of Meridian approving this. The building, even though it is in very sad appearing condition at the present time is structurally sound. I have an agreement with Pinnacle Engineering to completely do an engineering study, core drill the concrete to see the condition it is in. Preliminary walk throughs have already been done by several engineers. Every thing in the building appears to be superficial. The gymnasium is currently in use by the Marantha Church out here on Fairveiw and Cloverdale and they expressed a desire to continue. It is my intent to keep the gymnasium as it is right now. Only upgrading it cosmetically as far as re-doing the walls and some needs as far as fire requirements are concerned. The World Wide Search of God of Idaho has expressed a desire to lease the gymnasium and the basement which is also in excess of some 6,000 square foot in the basement. In the basement of the gym they plan on putting a youth opportunity united room, a girl scout's center. I am a charter organizer for troop 42 of Boise and plan on putting a boy scout troop in the building as well. I am a certified international hearing specialist and I plan on bringing my practice into the second floor, the south section of it and also my naturopathic practice. I have several local as well as out of city organizations interested in leasing the building and keeping it in a office structure. The original school building which was built in 1912 had 6500 square feet per floor and there are 2 1/2 floors. I don't have all of it spoken for but I have several people that have already Meridian Planning & Zoning November 9, 1994 Page 24 expressed an interest in leasing the building. I have laid out a preliminary, 3 phases for the property which consist of 3.4 acres total. Number 1 the old school cafeteria and the school maintenance shop is currently owned or is under contract from a church that is leasing that and they have agreed to sell that to me in January also. In phase 1, during the 1995 year I will retrofit or remodel the main building and what is known as Lot 1 on the subdivision plan. Putting in storm drains and black tops and ample parking for 142 required parking spaces. Phase 2 will be the acquisition of the cafeteria building and the removal of the old 125 foot garage block building that is there and the removal of the old maintenance military barracks that is there and the leveling down of what is now known as Lot 2, 3 and 4. Then in future plans subject to approval by the Board we then plan on putting a new modern office space in the northern perimeters of the property. I understand from the State of Idaho and most of this I have to apologize for my lack of knowledge on the UBC code which the engineers and I understand the City had already is knowledgeable of but the State to fall under that UBC Code, the Historical Preservation and it would be to the best interest of the community to keep this building and its external appearance and as close as possible the internal appearance for Historical preservation. I don't want to be the one to ruin that, so whatever is required I only have a preliminary report of what will be required and what we are willing to do. If the board has any questions I will filed them. Johnson: Any questions for the applicant? Hepper: Did you have dates on phase 2 and phase 3 when you planned on doing that? Thom: I do not have a firm date, but I am looking at 1996. We are purchasing the entire 3.4 acres on January the 2nd. My preliminary construction bids that are coming in are basically $300,000 to remodel and re-paint and restore the building. So I am looking at basically 1996 as far as the other sections. Hepper: It is not (inaudible) sitting on for several years, you plan on moving ahead? Thom: The main tell tale will be the amount of retro fitting and remodeling that we will have to do. Leveling with you World Wide Church of God wants to occupy the building in March. I would hope to occupy it some time after February and March for my suite of offices. I also intend to put a physical therapy center there and a birthing station for natural birth. I am looking at a March, April, May of occupying the building. So my main remodeling will be January and then black top pouring when weather permits. It will be graveled in January. Johnson: Is there any asbestos in the building? Meridian Planning & Zoning November 9, 1994 Page 25 Thom: Yes sir there is. There is some asbestos tile on the floor, and I have contacted the EPA and they are not at all concerned with the building in any way shape or form since we are not putting the building back into an educational institution and that is the only requirement for asbestos. They said if we move or alter the asbestos in the tile, seal it and lay carpet over it. And there is no concern there, the wrapping on the pipes, I have had 2 engineers and 2 contractors look at it is not asbestos. Johnson: Any other questions? Thank you, this is a public hearing anyone else like to address the Commission on this application? I will close this public hearing then. This requires findings of fact. Hepper: Mr. Chairman, I move we have the City Attorney prepare findings of fact. Rountree: Second Johnson: Moved and seconded to have the City Attorney prepare findings of fact and conclusions of law, all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea Johnson: Let's take a 5 minute break here. FIVE MINUTE BREAK ITEM #14: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR AN AUTOMOTIVE SALES LOT BY WOLFE-WHEELER DEVELOPMENT GROUP: Johnson: At this time I will open the public hearing, would the applicant or his representative like to come forward at this time and be sworn. Clyde Wheeler, 4248 Plum Road, was sworn by the City Attorney. Wheeler: I guess I had a couple questions about the City's comments from the Zoning Administrator. The purpose of this proposal on our part was to get at least preliminary approval to put an automotive sales location as well as the auxiliary services which I believe are listed on the items given to the Council. One of the issues there is it is not just an automotive sales lot, it was being proposed, I think they kind of headed it as that but the plans that you have would include other retail items that are associated with that being a collision center which would be attached to the automotive sales Meridian Planning & Zoning November 9, 1994 Page 26 organization as well as a car lot. We do not know at this time whether we would have a tire store or not, that would be depended on a potential tenant down the road. We would do a build to suit it properly for that other portion of the property as it becomes developable. So our purpose in this was really to find out that property would fit within Meridian's development scheme in the forthcoming years. And we would intend to build probably in the next 18 months on that property. I guess some of the issues in the Zoning Admistrators report were that we needed to have development agreement. She was not aware of one being in place, nor am I. I think the people we purchased the property from we presume they had one so I guess we are looking for direction from the Council as to what do we need do to comply with that particular issue. We have no problem with items 2, 3 and 4, it would appear that part of 4, the project be redesigned as a result of the annexation has to do mostly with landscaping issues. The proposal we gave did have the minimum 20 foot strip setback from adjoining neighbors so I am not sure if that was just being redundant as addressing what we had already done or whether there was a question there. I think most of those are conditional use issues that would have to be addressed as we develop a more specific site plan with the City Council. We have already met with the Ada County Highway District and those findings are acceptable. Light glare and noise issues is something I am not sure exactly what do we mean, we just developed the Acura store in Boise and we had some specific guidance as to what would or would not be acceptable in those areas. And we will comply with whatever the City felt was reasonable. I don't think we have an objection to it, we just don't know what that means. If I built a house there I am going to change the environment, I guess we would be looking for direction of whatever criteria is laid out. We are not objecting to complying with (inaudible) possible to do. The last issue and I guess the one I find as something I don't think we can live with is as part of this if we were to adopt this as written we are giving up our right to request any variance. Mr. Chetwood was in here earlier we would be talking about the same tree issues, type of landscaping and so forth and the Acura store if you looked at it, we did a good job of landscaping relative to anything else on Fairview. We do not object to doing that again in this situation. However, we don't know that we would like to give up our right again to ask for a variance depending on the type of trees we would be willing to put in and so forth. Again complying with what the City would require to make it a usable and beautiful for traffic going up and down Fairview. We obviously need view of our display vehicles and so forth and things like that and would not want to interfere with traffic flows in and out of our facility. Other than that, I really don't have any other things to say about it. If there are any other questions I would be happy answer them if I could. Johnson: Thank you very much, any questions of Mr. Wheeler? Alidjani: I have one, you did mention that a tire shop is not definite at the present time Meridian Planning & Zoning November 9, 1994 Page 27 (inaudible) no contract is that true with the glass shop, car wash and the (inaudible). Wheeler: I have a tentative agreement with a car wash, depending on approvals obviously. The glass shop, no we do not, the collision center would be something that we would own so yes we do. Johnson: Any further questions? Thank you Mr. Wheeler, following any additional testimony we will be asking Shari Stiles for her comments regarding her recommendations. This is a public hearing, anyone else from the public wish to come forward at this time on this application? Larry Hagan, 2065 East Fairview, was sworn by the City Attorney. Hagan: I was wondering if this facility is a new car store, all I have is that they are wanting to put a car lot in there. Johnson: I believe it is used, but we can ask the applicant that. Do you have any other questions? Hagan: Just that I think it would be good business for Meridian and if it creates jobs I am all for it. I am across the street from this facility. That is all I have to say. Johnson: Thank you Mr. Hagan, anyone else? Dave Leader, 110 Parkway Drive, Boise, was sworn by the City Attorney. Leader: I am the owner of the adjacent subdivision to the north there. I haven't seen the plans and don't even know for certain how many acres is involved. My main concerns are the facility be buffered from the residential abutting the residential area there with consideration for noise, light and visual buffering be established. (End of Tape) Don Bryan, 2070 North Locust Grove Road, was sworn by the City Attorney. Bryan: I just have one concern and that is the noise, I have 2 concerns, one is the noise with the loud speakers that usually accommodate these car lots, I just hope that is addressed in the zoning sheet that he was reading before. Because of the loudspeaker at the car lot it echoes through everybody's subdivision since it abuts residential people. I hope that is addressed. Also, there is an ongoing battle with the ditches out there that we have had numerous meetings over and Wayne had the last one in August or September. Meridian Planning & Zoning November 9, 1994 Page 28 Johnson: You say meetings or beatings? Bryan: Both, they were meetings that turned into beatings or beatings that turned into meetings. I think we hashed out a solution. I have seen or heard nothing since, I talked to Scott Weber once and he is evidently proceeding on his development and doing what he can on the ditches. I hope as we go through the process on what we are going to do with this parcel whether it be this development or future development I hope we put our ducks in a row before we get it in to assure that we don't have a problem with the routing which is after the fact. I hope that the last meeting that we had with the irrigation people that were involved with Dave Leader and Jim Boyd the property owner and Roger Allen to the west, I think we have it resolved, but like I say I haven't seen anything done so I hope that we can proceed in that in an orderly fashion before this development gets ahead of us. That is all I have. Johnson: Thanks Don, any questions of Mr. Bryan? Anyone else? A question for the applicant, new or used? (Inaudible) Johnson: Used (Inaudible) Johnson: Used, there are no open franchises at this time. Ms. Stiles, do you have any comments concerning the applicants comments on the requirements there, anything that needs clarification, any questions you have? Would you please comment on the development agreement, or nonexistent thereof or whatever. Stiles: The development agreement is a specific requirement of the annexation ordinance and maybe Wayne Crookston can enlighten me but I have not seen any attempt at one being made on this property. Crookston: I have not either. Johnson: So what you are really saying is we will need one. Stiles: Yes Johnson: And there is none in place at this time. Stiles: Right Meridian Planning & Zoning November 9, 1994 Page 29 Johnson: Would you comment on your landscaping requirements? Stiles: The 35 foot landscape setback is also a requirement, it is being provided on the Avest property, a 35 foot width of a berm ranging in height from 2 to 4 feet. It is in or comprehensive plan to encourage these landscape setbacks and I think it should be continued. Nowhere on the plan they've shown does it reach 35 feet. Johnson: On the conception you have in front of you the 35 foot hasn't been addressed properly, is that what you are saying? Stiles: Right, they do show a 20 foot landscape setback along Dove Meadows which is good. Johnson: What is the, and I don't mean to be picky, what is the reason for the stipulation that no variance may be entertained, it sounds like an ultimatum. Stiles: Primarily from my experience with the people that prepared this plan, to be quite candid instead of doing the homework to begin with they try to claim hardship later. Johnson: Our ordinance requires any variance has to be predicated on a hardship. Stiles: Topographical Johnson: And it doesn't necessarily mean or does not relate to an economic hardship. So that is the reason for your terminology there? Stiles: Right Johnson: Anyone else have anything they would like to add? Any discussion by the Commission? I will close the public hearing at this time. This would require findings of fact and conclusions of law. Shearer: Mr. Chairman, I move we have the Attorney prepare the findings of fact and conclusions of law for this project. Alidjani: Second Johnson: Moved and seconded that we have the City Attorney prepare findings of fact and conclusions of law for the application by Wolfe-Wheeler development group, all those in favor? Opposed? Meridian Planning & Zoning November 9, 1994 Page 30 MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #15: PUBLIC HEARING: REQUEST FOR ANNEXATION AND ZONING OF ACHD RIGHT-OF-WAY BY RAMON YORGASON: Johnson: I will now open the public hearing, if there is the applicant or his representative please come forward and be sworn at this time. Is anyone here representing the applicant? This is a public hearing, is there anyone here that would like to testify that came specifically to testify on this issue? Does anyone at all have any interest in this public hearing. I will close the public hearing at this point for lack of interest. Smith: Mr. Chairman, (inaudible) why this is being done at all on the application or any comments. Johnson: You can save us some time by just briefly stating why it is being done. Smith: Okay, the property originally annexed the west side of Meridian in this general area, Waterbury Park Subdivision was annexed to the west right-of-way line for Meridian and around the drainage lot at the northeast corner of Waterbury Park Subdivision. I can't tell you why it went through that way, typically we annex these things to the section line or center line of the adjacent roadway. Anyway, as the property to the east side of Meridian Road was annexed their description went to the center line of Meridian or to the section line. At that point it was discovered by the State Tax Commission who keeps track of these things and read the minute detail that we had a gap between the 2 annexations. And that is the reason that this annexation was put together was to close that gap. And all it is for is ACHD Right-of-Way and the drainage pond that ACHD owns and maintains at the northeast corner of Waterbury Park subdivision. Johnson: Thank you very much, any discussion or comments on that? Any questions? Shearer: Do we need findings of fact or can we just recommend approval and send it on? Crookston: I am afraid we do need findings. Rountree: Mr. Chairman, I move that we have findings of fact and conclusions of law prepared for the application. Meridian Planning & Zoning November 9, 1994 Page 31 Hepper: Second Johnson: Its moved and seconded to have the City Attorney prepare findings of fact and conclusions of law on the application by Ramon Yorgason to create a Right of way for ACHD, all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea ITEM #16: STEINER DEVELOPMENT: PRESENTATION OF CONCEPT PLAN FOR CHERRY LANE AT THE LAKE NO. 5 AND 6: Johnson: We are ready. Forrey: Thank you Mr. Chairman, members of the Commission, my name is Wayne Forrey and I am here tonight working with Steiner Development to develop a very large project. It is actually Cherry Lane 3 and 4 and 5 and 6. Cherry Lane 3 is currently under construction and you would see probably the road is quite muddy out there, the roads are being cut in. Steiner has dedicated the fairways to the City, Tom Eddy of Pacific Land Surveyors is getting ready to stake those fairways so the City will know where the fairways are going to be in that phase 3, phase 4. And then Steiner Development approached Mr. and Mrs. Teter and they owned 40 acres immediately east of the Cherry Lane 3 project between Cherry Lane 3 and Ten Mile Road. And they have purchased that property and that is why it will be called Cherry Lane at the Lake 5 and 6. It would be developed in two 20 acre phases. The south 20 acres first, the north 20 acres second. The objective of Steiner Development is to have a good, a high end quality mixed residential project. We have done quite a bit of market research and I listened to Mike Wardle tonight and David Turnbull talk about the need for different types of housing in Meridian and I agree. Our findings support that also, there is a glut of R-4 type lots out there and a lot of folks are saying they need a little smaller yard, a little different type of unit. So we approached this on the basis of high value single family, detached homes (inaudible), patio homes, elderly garden homes, and some attached town houses. Our concept is to have a very good mix, good covenants, high landscape requirements, possibility of even some security gates. That is why there are a lot of islands and turn arounds for public turn around. We have been working with the highway district on a combination of some private streets and public turn arounds. Pathways, good architectural control and we looked at about 20 acres being annexed as R-4 and 20 acres to be annexed as R-15. If that is accomplished then that would allow the flexibility to get that mix of residential. We went before the City Council last Tuesday night and got some input from them. Before we submit anything we thought it would be good to see if there is anything glaring there Meridian Planning & Zoning November 9, 1994 Page 32 that is good or bad that we could address. This is a $40 million project when you add it all up, Cherry Lane 3, 4, 5 and 6 is a $40 million investment so we want to do it right. If you see something that is grossly in error let us know before we put these applications together. By the way we have, what you have is a pencil sketch, we have taken it to the next level and Tom Eddy has computerized and digitized the layout so we are down now to brass tacks. And want to put a good project together. I appreciate your ideas and input. Johnson: I have a couple thoughts and I am sure that other people do. I would like you to define an elderly garden home and (inaudible). Forrey: You are looking for square footage minimums and that type of things. You would like a definition of the housing types and more detail. Johnson: Well, I think I know what a single family detached unit is. I really don't know what an elderly garden home is. I also have some questions about the design of the streets. But go ahead and define that for me, I really don't know what that is. Forrey: The elderly garden homes are always one level, they are not 2 level and they have nice open atriums, enclosed sun rooms, screened areas so that you can be outside in the fall and not have to put a jacket on. The concept is to bring the garden into the structure a little bit. And no yard maintenance. Johnson: Where are the closest elderly garden homes to this development? Forrey: In the City of Boise. Johnson: Where in the City of Boise? Forrey: They are at Cole and Emerald and it would be near that intersection, just west of the overpass over the Interstate on the north side of Emerald there is a complex there. Johnson: I am not familiar with that, that is why I ask. Is that a new complex? Forrey: No, it is actually about 6 or 7 years old. Very popular but there is nothing like that in Meridian. Might identify a need for that. Johnson: Are you familiar enough with those to know that those are occupied by elderly people. How do you accomplish that in this day and age? Meridian Planning & Zoning November 9, 1994 Page 33 Forrey: There would be restrictions on children living there. It would be an adult only type restriction. And the seniors that we have talked to want a gated community. They want security gates and brick fences around the perimeter of that complex and they want to feel very safe and secure. That is the orientation here at this point it can certainly change but that is the concept. Shearer: (Inaudible) the Meadows? Forrey: It is right next to the Meadows. Johnson: The Meadows has been there 20 some years. Forrey: I think it is a kind of a patio home, town house, it is right by the Meadows. Johnson: I will drive by and look at them because I am interested in that concept. Alidjani: And there is no intention of a rental, this is home owner occupied. Forrey: Correct, at this point, unless (Inaudible) Crookston: It is off of Coffee Street is it not? Forrey: Yes (Inaudible) Forrey: Conditional Use Permit. (Inaudible) Johnson: Build a school. I like the concept, I like the idea it fills a need we don't' have. You touched on this Wayne but I didn't get any clear definition as to phasing or timing. Forrey: South 20 acres would be phase 1. Boulevards are 80 feet wide, no direct lot access to the Boulevard (inaudible) in phase 1. And then everything south of the Boulevard would be phase 1. I will tell you a dilemma that we are going through, you take the Meridian zoning ordinance and you do your marketing analysis and say well there is a need for that and it doesn't fit into the zoning ordinance very well. That is why the R-15 would be our request of choice. And I know that might hit some folks a Meridian Planning & Zoning November 9, 1994 Page 34 little abruptly and say well R-15 out by the golf course. Johnson: There is no question about, there is no way around that though as you do some sort of review. Conceptual design review whatever you want to call it and development agreement. Forrey: (Inaudible) to the City Council, kind of a 3 step development agreement process and then also through in a conditional use permit procedure on those attached unit areas. Hepper: Would garages be provided, 2 car? Forrey: Yes, we will comply with the ordinance in all of those features. Hepper: What about the square footage of the units? Forrey: The R-15 doesn't have a minimum dwelling unit size, just the R-4 and the R-8. The R-15 has a minimum lot size of 2500 square feet. So our approach Commissioner Hepper would be let the market decide what that unit would be. I don't know right now what size it would be. (Inaudible) Johnson: Okay, so why are you coming to us? Forrey: Because we want to submit a good application. We want to do it right. Johnson: I know you have already been to the City, I was at that meeting. We are just kind of getting a feel for how you like to put together the actual application. Wayne, what would be your suggestion in terms of the zoning request? Crookston: Well, This would be an annexation would it not? Forrey: Yes, it is in the County. Crookston: As long as it is an annexation, the City can put on restrictions it deems necessary. So that it could be R-15 but require R-2 development that is strictly and example. But you could have R-15 and say it needs to be R-6, R-8 development, as long as it is in annexation, that is when the City does have some handles on it. Forrey: That is one reason we did a little layout in those 2 areas so that you could get to some specifics instead of leaving it blank (inaudible) R-15 zoning and we will come Meridian Planning & Zoning November 9, 1994 Page 35 back later. Johnson: Well, we would have I'm sure some conditions addressing rentals and perhaps size. Maybe we wouldn't like detached garages, it is kind of hard to tell on that. Do you, Shari, do you have any comments on this. You sat through the first meeting. I think what they are looking for is a little additional guidance from us before they let it fly. Stiles: I didn't have any real problems with the concept, I kind of like the concept because of the fact the fire station is there and that it is proposed to be an upper scale development. And I am also pleased to know that Tom Eddy has prepared a plat for it, it makes it a little easier to see the dimensions, it is kind of hard to tell from a drawing. Johnson: Gary Smith anything? Well Wayne thank you, does anyone else have any other questions? Rountree: I don't' have a question, but in the way of a suggestion to take a look at the boulevard concept that you have and see if that is really compatible with the lifestyle you think you are going to have. You are looking at a fairly wide right of way (inaudible). Forrey: Yes, but it allows for a lot of landscaping too and maybe we could get that in a 70 foot right of way. Rountree: I am not concerned about the width, but I am a little concerned about 44 feet of asphalt. Forrey: 22 each side. Rountree: If you are talking about a quiet, relaxed pedestrian oriented type of community granted you are going to have to have access out of the interior through that, but you are encouraging some pretty significant problems by having that kind of width. You won't have much parking on the street, you have low volume, gated access (inaudible) so you are going to encourage a fair amount of speed through there. Just keep that in mind, you may want to skinny it up, you may want to look at some of the concepts. I know we have read a little bit about what is going on in Portland in the paper the last couple, 3 weeks and they are doing a lot of these kinds of things. They have taking a 180 degree look at wide rights of way and wide roads. They are looking at skinny roads (inaudible) to do some traffic calming. Forrey: Thank you Meridian Planning & Zoning November 9, 1994 Page 36 Johnson: Okay, thank you very much, does anyone have anything else? Hepper: Would this be a private street down through here where the elderly garden homes? Forrey: It could be, it could be public or private. It is shown public in here. Hepper: So if it is public it will have curb, gutter and sidewalk? Forrey: Yes Hepper: I think that was one of the problems we had with one of the other things that was brought up here maybe a year or 2 ago was to have an elderly place without sidewalks. I think that is a real problem. Rountree: (Inaudible) Forrey: When we met with Shari, Shari suggested interweaving a jogging path, we have done that (inaudible) landscaped pathway (inaudible). Crookston: Wayne, I thought when you were at City Council that the garden type are was going to be private streets? Forrey: We we have (inaudible) because one of the comments from the City Council was check with the Fire department and they didn't really want private streets unless we absolutely had to. Well, we redesigned there now so there is room now to make those public. It could go back to private but there is room in there to make them public. That is what the fire chief wants. Johnson: That was Bob Corrie's comment. (Inaudible) Johnson: Thanks Wayne. Do we have anything else on the agenda tonight? Crookston: Well, we do, it is not on there but we talked about the zoning amendment discussion. Johnson: Yes, if we had time. Meridian Planning & Zoning November 9, 1994 Page 37 Crookston: I think we need to have a special meeting. Johnson: Would you like to lead this discussion then Mr. Crookston? Crookston: A workshop, you want to have a workshop or do you want me to go forward? Johnson: Well, I don't like to jump into a workshop if we don't have something to focus on. So if you could give us some areas where you have concern. Crookston: Well, I handed some ordinances that I think need to be changed and it is not specific, it doesn't exactly state what they need to have added to them. I do have lots of written comments in my zoning book. Johnson: I had forgotten, it has been so long since you passed that out. That is like 3 or 4 weeks ago. Crookston: I do have extra copies. Johnson: We can focus on that, that is fine. Let's set up a date that is compatible with everyone when I am in time. Rountree: Is that a problem? Johnson: It is a problem between the 3rd and the 11th of December because I am going to be basking on a cruise somewhere or whatever you do on a cruise I have never been on one. When do you guys want to have a workshop prior to the holidays? What do you think a couple hours. Alidjani: These are not public meetings so why don't we have a couple of lunches or one lunch (inaudible). Crookston: I don't think Johnson: How about a 6:00 meeting some evening, we will eat pizza and roll up our sleeves for a couple of hours and go home. Pick a date. (Discussion Inaudible) Johnson: Is December 1st alright Wayne? Meridian Planning & Zoning November 9, 1994 Page 38 Crookston: I would like to have it as soon as possible so I can prepare proposed amendments that you can review in the December meeting. (Discussion Inaudible) Johnson: How about next Monday? (Discussion Inaudible) Alidjani: How about the Tuesday before our own meeting? Berg: The Tuesday before is a City Council meeting (inaudible). (Discussion Inaudible) Crookston: It is going to be at least 2 hours. Rountree: As far as needing to get something prepared for the meeting? Crookston: I would like a week. (Discussion Inaudible) Johnson: How about 5:30 and I am leaving at 6:45 on the 21st, Monday. What kind of pizza, tell Will. No Canadian bacon and pineapple. (Discussion Inaudible) Shearer: I move we adjourn. Rountree: Second Johnson: Moved and seconded to adjourn, all those in favor? Opposed? MOTION CARRIED: All Yea MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:48 P.M. (TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) APPROVED: Meridian Planning & Zoning November 9, 1994 Page 39 JIM JOHNSON, CHAIRMAN ATTEST: WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., CITY CLERK