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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2024-05-14 Regular Meridian City Council May 14, 2024. A Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:00 p.m. Tuesday, May 14, 2024, by Vice-President Liz Strader. Members Present: Luke Cavener, Liz Strader, John Overton, Anne Little Roberts and Doug Taylor. Members Absent: Robert Simison. ROLL-CALL ATTENDANCE _X_ Liz Strader (vacant) Anne Little Roberts X John Overton _X_ Doug Taylor _X—Luke Cavener Mayor Robert E. Simison Strader: Welcome to the City of Meridian's Regular City Council Meeting. Today is Tuesday, May 14th, 2024, at 6:00 o'clock p.m. We will begin tonight's meeting with roll call attendance. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE Strader: Next up we have the Pledge of Allegiance. Please join us. (Pledge of Allegiance recited.) COMMUNITY INVOCATION Strader: Thank you. For the community invocation I would like to welcome David Reese from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Please join us in a prayer or a moment of your own personal reflection. Reese: Our Father in Heaven, we are grateful to come before thee in prayer at the beginning of the City Council meeting tonight. We are grateful for our community, for the good people who are our friends and neighbors. We are grateful for those who spend their days in service to our community and especially our first responders and we ask thy blessings upon them and upon their families. We asked thy blessings upon those in our community who are in need and ask you to help us who are positioned to help that we may know how best to do so. We ask that thy blessings upon those who are innocent victims of the wars in Ukraine and in the Middle East and elsewhere. Pray that their suffering will be relieved and that a way to peace may be found. We ask you to bless us in this community, that we will promote friendliness and neighborliness and peace with one another. We ask thy blessings upon this proceeding this night and do so in the name of thy Savior Jesus Christ. Amen. Meridian City Council Work Session May 14,2024 Page 2 of 34 ADOPTION OF AGENDA Strader: Thank you. Okay. Next up we have the adoption of the agenda. Overton: Madam Vice-President? Strader: Yes, Councilman Overton. Overton: Seeing no changes to the agenda, I would like to move that we approve the agenda as published. Little Roberts: Second. Strader: Excellent. We have an adoption to approve the agenda and a second. All in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed nay? The ayes have it and the agenda is adopted. MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES. CONSENT AGENDA [Action Item] 1. Chik-fil-A Ten Mile and Vanguard Water Main Easement (ESMT-2024- 0054) 2. Jump Creek Subdivision No. 7 Sanitary Sewer and Water Main Easement (ESMT-2024-0058) 3. Prairiefire Subdivision Water Main Easement No. 3 (ESMT-2024-0055) 4. Final Plat for Millwood Subdivision (FP-2023-0011) by Epic Development Victory, LLC., located at 1975 E. Victory Rd. 5. Final Plat for TM Center East No. 2 (FP-2024-0008) by Brighton Development, Inc., located at 700 S. Wayfinder Ave. 6 Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Reveille Ridge Subdivision (H-2023-0050) by Bailey Engineering, generally located on the west side of S. Eagle Rd., approximately 1/2 mile south of E. Lake Hazel Rd. 7. Final Order for Biltmore Estates Subdivision No. 5 by Engineering Solutions, generally located at the northwest corner of S. Kentucky Way and W. Harris St. Meridian City Council Work Session May 14,2024 Page 3 of 34 8. Development Agreement Modification (Ultra Clean Franklin H-2023- 0064) Between City of Meridian and WWOZ Boise Meridian LLC, for Property Located at 3070 E. Franklin Rd. 9. Agreement between the City of Meridian and DG Boise Chinden, LLC to Accept Payment in lieu of Streetlight Installation at 1840 West Chinden Blvd. 10. Approval of AIA A133 Construction Management Agreement for Pre- Construction Services with Kreizenbeck LLC for the Not-To-Exceed FY24 amount of $15,000.00 11. Approval of AIA B133 Design Agreement for Architecture Services for the PD Roof & RTU Replacement project with LCA Architects, Inc. for the Not-To-Exceed amount of $79,475.00.00 Strader: Next we have the Consent Agenda. Overton: Madam Vice-President? Strader: Councilman Overton. Overton: I would like to move for approval of the Consent Agenda, with the Vice- President to sign and the City Clerk to attest. Little Roberts: Second. Strader: Excellent. We have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda. All in favor signify by saying aye. Nays? The ayes have it and the Consent Agenda is approved. MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES. ITEMS MOVED FROM THE CONSENT AGENDA [Action Item] PROCLAMATIONS [Action Item] 12. Building Safety Month Proclamation Strader: All right. Next we have Proclamations. We have three proclamations, so I'm just going to let everyone know the order. Okay. First we will have the Building Safety Month Proclamation and I will recognize Director Bruce Freckleton for that. Next we have World Neurofibromatosis Awareness Day and I will recognize the Shannon McNall. And, then, finally we will have the Public Works Week Proclamation and I will recognize Director Laurelei McVey. Okay. First up is the Building Safety Month Proclamation. Director Freckleton and Brett Caulder, if you could join me at the podium. Okay. Better Meridian City Council Work Session May 14,2024 Page 4 of 34 the higher up. There we go. Thank you. Whereas Mission Possible, the theme for Building Safety Month 2024, encourages us all to raise awareness about building safety on a personal, local and global scale and whereas each year, in observance of Building Safety Month, people from Meridian and all over the world are asked to consider the commitment to improve building safety, resilience and economic investment at home and in the community and to acknowledge the essential service provided to all of us by local and state building departments, fire prevention bureaus and federal agencies in protecting lives and property and whereas building safety and fire prevention officials, architects, engineers, builders, trades people, design professionals, laborers, plumbers and others in the construction industry are dedicated members of the International Code Council, a nonprofit that brings together local, state, territorial, tribal and federal officials who are experts in the built environment to create and implement the highest quality codes and whereas modern building codes include safeguards to protect the public from natural hazards such as snowstorms, wildland fires, floods and earthquakes and whereas the City of Meridian is committed to recognizing that our growth and our strength depends on the safety and essential role our homes, buildings and infrastructure play both in everyday life and when disaster strikes. Therefore, I, Liz Strader, on behalf of Mayor Robert E. Simison, proclaim this week of May 2024 as -- actually this month of May 2024 as Building Safety Month in the City of Meridian and encourage all citizens to join us as we participate in Building Safety Month activities and recognize those that helped to strengthen our community and to protect us in the buildings where we live, work and raise our families. Fantastic. I think we all can intuitively understand that building safety is critical for all of us. I would like to recognize Brett Caulder to make a few remarks. Caulder: Thank you for recognizing this. It gives us a platform internationally and nationally. This has been an ongoing platform through the International Code Council, which is our adopting body for codes and building standards for 43 years and I appreciate the opportunity and the support from Council in this, because we are kind of the -- in-the-shadows heroes in the sense of building, safe buildings and expectation for longevity and for sustainability. So, again, thank you for your support. Strader: If you would like to join me for a quick picture with the proclamation and I would like to congratulate you again. (Picture taken.) 13. World Neurofibromatosis Awareness Day Strader: Okay. Great. Thank you. And I realize Council may have comments, so I think we will save them for the end of all three proclamations, if that's okay, for the sake of efficiency. I would like to recognize Shannon McNall and your team. Come on up. Fantastic. Thank you. We will go ahead and read the proclamation. Whereas Neurofibromatosis, NF, causes tumors to grow on nerves throughout the body, which can affect the development of the brain, cardiovascular system, bones and skin and affects all populations equally regardless of race, ethnicity or gender and whereas the Meridian City Council Work Session May 14,2024 Page 5 of 34 Children's Tumor Foundation leads efforts to promote and financially sponsor world class medical research aimed at finding effective treatments and ultimately a cure for NF and whereas patient and family support is provided by the Children's Tumor Foundation through its information resources, youth programs and local chapter activities and whereas much remains to be done in raising public awareness of NF to help promote early diagnosis, proper management and treatment, prevention of complications and support for research and whereas the Children's Tumor Foundation is observing May 17, 2024, as World Neurofibromatosis Awareness Day to educate the public about this rare genetic disorder. Therefore, I, Liz Strader, on behalf of Mayor Robert E. Simison, hereby proclaim May 17th, 2024, as World NF Awareness Day in the City of Meridian and encourage all citizens and community members to become informed and involved in the fight, so we can imagine a world without NF. Thank you. Shannon, would you like to come and make some remarks? McNall: Thank you guys and the Council for recognizing World NF Awareness Day. I am a person affected with NF and if you are affected, please, raise your hand. That's my son Carson. NF is -- is a rare disorder that really has no cure and only one real effective treatment that they found so far. So, the Children's Tumor Foundation's mission is to really reach out and raise awareness and raise research for a disorder that causes tumors anywhere on the nervous system and really make a difference in our communities and it starts with -- it starts with things like this. It starts with awareness like this. So, we just really want to thank the Council. Thank you guys. Strader: Thank you. Thank you for raising awareness about this important issue and let's go ahead we can take a quick picture with the whole group if you would like. (Picture taken) 14. Public Works Week Proclamation Strader: Great. Thank you. And, finally, I would like to welcome Director Laurelei McVey to the podium for our Proclamation for Meridian Public Works Week. Whereas City of Meridian residents have peace of mind with every faucet turned on, shower taken and toilet flushed, thanks to the professional employees of the Meridian Public Works team and whereas each often unseen essential worker, engineer, inspector, operator, technician is committed to protecting our health, safety, environment and quality of life through the 24/7 supply and distribution of clean, safe water, efficient collection and treatment of wastewater and management of solid waste and whereas the Meridian Public Works Department educates the community about the work they do through informative and engaging public outreach and whereas advancing the quality of life for all is the theme for the 2024 National Public Works Week and it represents the often unseen, steadfast and heroic efforts put forth by the Public Works professionals across North America. Therefore, 1, Liz Strader, on behalf of Robert E. Simison, proclaim the week of May 19th to 25th, 2024, as Meridian Public Works Week in the City of Meridian and call upon all citizens and civic organizations to acquaint themselves Meridian City Council Work Session May 14,2024 Page 6 of 34 with and to recognize the substantial contributions which Public Works employees make every day to our health, safety, comfort and quality of life. Laurelei. Thank you. McVey: Well, thank you so much. This is more people than ever come to the Public Works Proclamation, so I will take that as a win. We really appreciate the support and recognition, like Bruce and his team, I call the, you know, Public Works employees heroes of the underground. So, it's services that every single resident of the city uses every single day and it takes a lot of work to make both our water and wastewater work every single day without fail and that trust that the community puts in us for that essential service is so important. So, I would also like to thank the Council and Mayor for their continued support. It takes a lot of resources to make this happen and they continue to support us to meet these requirements and support our staff in those efforts. So, I would also like to invite everybody to the Public Works Week Expo. It's next week on Wednesday from 4:00 to 7:00 out in front of City Hall. It's a really fun family event where we bring out all of our big equipment, all of our employees put on little demonstrations and booths and it's free and a great event if you are interested in learning more about Public Works. (Picture taken.) Strader: Okay. Little Roberts: Madam Vice-President? Strader: Council Woman Little Roberts. Little Roberts: Madam Vice-President, I would just like to acknowledge everything that goes behind these proclamations. Anybody that knows me knows there is two things that are near and dear to my heart, among many other things, but our team, which we have mentioned two, with Building Safety and Public Works, I mean our teams are just amazing and we wouldn't be able to do these without those of you that work so hard and so diligently and love our city and my other passion is nonprofits and so thank you so much for the work that you do near and dear to your heart, because without people like you all going out and educating the rest of us we wouldn't know about things like this and be able to support research and those that are looking to find a cure. So, hope you participated in Idaho Gives this year. If not, think about it for next year. But thank you all. Strader: Thank you. Taylor: Council President Strader? Strader: Councilman Taylor. Taylor: I just want to take a minute, too, and I think -- I'm not -- I'm just going to say NF, because I can't say the words, but never had heard of it before, so I really do appreciate Meridian City Council Work Session May 14,2024 Page 7 of 34 that if one person became aware and it was me, then, success. So, I'm very interested and want to look -- look into this a little bit more. But I appreciate that and also to our team, I would be remiss also if I didn't acknowledge them and as Public Works liaison and the good work that Laurelei and her team does is really fantastic. It's -- it's almost a modern miracle to see how the water gets to where it needs to go without any errors, contamination, things like that and so I just think it's really great. So, I'm glad we are recognizing their good work in this way and I do hope a lot of people come next week. I'm excited to bring my kids. Strader: Fantastic. Overton: Madam Vice-President? Strader: Councilman Overton. Overton: I will be the second one. I have never heard the term before and I have to also say NF from this point forward, but I appreciate what you brought forward for us and the rest of the city to educate us. It's -- sometimes if it wasn't for what you just did and the proclamations we would never know. Under the city departments. This has been one of the fastest growing cities for over 30 years and what continues to amaze me is with the Community Development and the Building Department is how we maintain such a high quality of safety for everything from the ground up and, then, you walk right over to Public Works and we do the exact same thing from the ground level down. I mean the fact that you can keep up with our heavy growth and keep the highest quality of standards and safety as we do it is impressive and you -- say thank you for our support, but we got to thank you guys every day for everything you do, because you are what makes our city great. We just get to stand and take the kudos for it. But your teams, your people are the ones that really do the hard work. Thank you. Strader: Thank you. Well, these were three fantastic proclamations. I want to congratulate everyone who received one and also let you know that you could stay for the whole City Council meeting, but you are not obligated to do so. Okay? So, if you have other things going on feel free. PUBLIC FORUM — Future Meeting Topics Strader: With that, Mr. Clerk, do we have anyone signed up under the Public Forum? Johnson: Madam Vice-President, we do not. ACTION ITEMS 15. Public Hearing continued from April 9, 2024 for Rosalyn Subdivision (H-2023-0056) by Givens Pursley, LLP, located at 200 E. Rosalyn Dr. Meridian City Council Work Session May 14,2024 Page 8 of 34 A. Request: Annexation of a 0.014-acre of land from RUT in Ada County to the R-8 zoning district, including the remaining portion of E. Rosalyn Street cul-de-sac right-of-way. B. Request: Combined Preliminary/Final Plat consisting of 6 residential building lots and 1 common lot on 0.733 acres in the R-8 zoning district. Strader: Okay. Great. Thank you. With that we will move on to our Action Items this evening. First up we have a public hearing continued from April 9th, 2024, for Rosalyn Subdivision, H-2023-0056 by Givens Pursley, LLP, and with that I will turn this over to Stacy for staff comments. Hersh: Good evening Madam Vice-President Strader and Members of the Council, this application was continued for Rosalyn Subdivision. The applications that are before you are for annexation and combined preliminary/final plat. Tonight the applicant is still wishing to remain with the six lots. Also staff just wanted to reiterate that the -- this is a picture of the piece of remnant area right of way that staff directed the applicant to acquire -- acquire from ACHD to -- so we could clean up our map and annex those pieces into the city, so they wouldn't be out there forever without being annexed. There were two written testimonies since the last hearing, one from Carol Sue Johnson and Brenda Violet. Concerns with the increased traffic flow and safety, overflow parking on the street and dense -- and the density proposed on the lot. Staff -- this concludes staff's presentation and I can go over anything that we need to revisit in staff's last presentation and that concludes my presentation for tonight and I stand for any questions. Strader: Great. Thank you so much. Fellow Council Members and not forgetting Council President Cavener also who is online, does anyone have any questions for staff? Okay. Great. And I would like to welcome the applicant to make some remarks for up to 15 minutes. Koeckeritz: Thank you, Council Member Strader, Members of City Council. Elizabeth Koeckeritz with Givens Pursley. 601 Bannock. With me tonight are Brett and Julie Bingham and they actually would like to present to you this evening and explain to you why they think this project -- this is the right time and the place and why this is near and dear to them and they would like to speak with you about that. Bingham: Okay. Julie Bingham. 2400 West Wapoot Drive in Meridian. We would like to thank Madam Vice-President Strader and City Council Members and staff for your time to review and hear our application tonight on our Rosalyn Subdivision project. Tonight we would like to present an overview of our project from our perspective and encapsulate into a few minutes its origin. As was stated, we are business owners in Meridian for the last 20 years. We are both lifelong Idaho residents and have lived here in Meridian for the last 24 years. We have five children, four of whom are adults now and who grew up in Meridian attending West Ada School District. So, why this project? Meridian City Council Work Session May 14,2024 Page 9 of 34 Our project began three years ago when we saw a need for our children, my mother and our community. As mentioned, four of our children are adults who are currently attending or have graduated college. They have all expressed interest in moving back to their hometown here in Meridian where they grew up. However, dreams of homeownership in Meridian have dissipated due to the lack of small home availability over the last few years. Our oldest daughter and her husband are recent college graduates and young professionals who have experienced this new reality due to the lack of small single family homes like our project. They have ended up purchasing a home in Nampa. We know that homeownership provides opportunities for people to plant roots into a community and in-fill projects of small single family homes like this development will provide opportunities for home ownership to our returning young adults and/or retiree family members. This is the why for our project. Now we would like to address the project itself, along with concerns that have been brought up from our neighbors and from City Council. We are not professional developers and we have gratefully received help from Ms. Koeckeritz along the way, but tonight we would like to speak as the owners of this property and share our first-hand experience as previous members of this neighborhood. You see, we lived in the current house on Rosalyn for two years and so we have good experience while being there. First we would like to address the position of the current house on Lot 2. There we go. The position of the house on Lot 2 and the concern of its orientation. Our reasoning for positioning this house this way was that there are five large beautiful trees on this lot. If we oriented the home on Lot 2 straight like the others we would have to sacrifice those trees. By turning it slightly we can preserve almost all of them and it squares it up with the road. In doing so it provides privacy, shade and honors the history of families who lived here and planted those trees years ago. Second, fencing is not required with our application, but we wanted to address it. Our plan is to retain the current privacy fencing that is already there to the north and the east and add additional privacy fencing to the west that is adjacent to Mrs. Larrea's property, which is currently a barbed wire and electric fence. Because fencing is not required with our application, we have not decided on interior fencing between the homes, but our intent is for the HOA of this development to maintain our yards, flowerbeds, shrubs, trees, irrigation and snow removal to ensure it is consistent among homes and is maintained to an excellent standard. Any future interior fencing proposed will comply with strict HOA. So, there were questions and concerns about the sidewalk improvements from our home to Meridian Road. It is correct that there is a small portion of the street extending to Meridian Road that does not have improved sidewalks. These two locations marked in red have not been developed and still have not required improvements. After living in this home for almost two years we did not find this to be detrimental to our experience in the neighborhood. In fact, we enjoyed walking through the neighborhood to the commercial developments that include restaurants, dry cleaning and an ice cream shop. Owners of these potential homes do not need to walk to Meridian Road, nor would they want to, because the Meridian Road is not developed with sidewalks or biking lanes. The interior neighborhood sidewalks are a perfect way to walk to your favorite ice cream shop. Fourth, we would like to address the concerns our neighbors have voiced with our project, as well as changes that we have made to address their concerns. We began our project with a proposal of seven attached units with some two story homes and emergency access coming from Meridian City Council Work Session May 14,2024 Page 10 of 34 the common drive to the east that we have legal access to. We proposed this plan, which met all requirements for zoning and safety, with the assumption of approval of annexation of the sliver of land we were granted from our ACHD hearing. At our neighborhood meeting we met with over 20 neighbors who voiced concerns about density, use of common drive to the east, two story sight lines, attached homes, parking and trash. We listened to them, took notes and, then, met with our legal counsel and city staff. We want to be good neighbors and address their concerns while still being smart about the development and the costs that will be incurred for developing. We landed on the proposal that you see before you. We believe that this proposal is the best fit for the parcel, while also addressing concerns from our neighbors, those being going from the seven smaller lots with attached homes to six bigger lots with detached homes like the rest of the neighborhood. We are now utilizing a hammerhead that provides emergency access for our project, negating the need to use the common drive to the east, of which we have legal access to. We have reduced home sizes to be within 1,300 to 1,600 square feet. This reduction inherently reduces the amount of people who reside in each home and is consistent with the homes of the neighboring neighborhood. We reduced homes from two story to single level or story and a half to maintain a less visible presence. We have addressed trash services and confirmed with sanitation department that they will be able to collect trash bins from inside the hammerhead, alleviating multiple bins lining the road on Rosalyn. We also confirmed with the post office regarding a central mail collection box, which they require now. They chose a location at the top of the hammerhead, because it is convenient and meets their regulations for forward motion of their vehicles. They also said the common drive provides them safety and protection from the main road where they are stepping out of their vehicle to deliver mail. Parking for each of these homes has a two car garage and a two car parking pad. We feel that the size of these homes is suited for young professionals or retirees and that the concern for parking for more than two drivers will not be an issue. We know the concern City Council has regarding the overcrowding of the schools in which this project lies. We have lived within these exact school boundaries for many years with school aged children and know firsthand the challenges our schools face. However, we feel that the impact of the proposed smaller homes also limits the impact of school aged children to the schools. Brett would now like to address the concerns about density and annexation. B. Bingham: So, I'm Brett Bingham. I'm a veterinarian here in Meridian. I was actually working the late shift last time, so that's why I could not be here. So, I appreciate you recording these proceedings, so that we can watch and hear your concerns. That's very helpful. You, obviously, care a lot about our community, which means a lot to me. This project has meaning for me for a couple of reasons. One, Julie addressed the personal reasons, but also professional. As a veterinarian I own -- we own four veterinary hospitals here in the Treasure Valley, two here in Meridian. We employ over 105 team members. One of the biggest challenges we have for our team members is finding available homes for them to live in. So, this is significant to us, not only for personal but professional reason as well. Then we have a lot of friends who are business owners in this area who have the same concerns and frustrations as we do. I want to share a quick history about our neighborhood, so that you can see where we are coming from. Meridian City Council Work Session May 14,2024 Page 11 of 34 The slides will be above. In this picture from 1992 you can see the original cul-de-sac, which is part of our application for annexation. You can also see the original four homes. In May of 2005 another home was added onto the cul-de-sac. In October 2006 -- 2006 the cul-de-sac was replaced with a through street Rosalyn Drive, to the new Larkspur neighborhood. In 2010 the neighborhood continued to be developed and one of the original lots was divided in half. This is what it looks like today. The original lots to the south are highlighted in yellow here. In listening to the previous meeting, a slide was shared showing the four largest original lots implying that our project -- project was out of character with the density of the neighborhood. As I have shown you, these four lots were part of the original home sites and thus are the largest lots in the entire neighborhood. They are, in fact, out of character with the neighborhood and not the standard. For comparison I would like to show a bigger picture regarding density of the rest of the neighborhood. You can see from this map that there are 108 other homes surrounding our development. If we remove the four -- or if we remove the original home sites, the average lot density is .124 acres, which is within that red square. The average density within our development is .122 acres per lot. So, that's a difference of 87 square feet. So, our development is in alignment and consistent with the surrounding neighborhood. Another question that came up was that of annexation. Could this project be viable without the annexed portion? We had our designer map out the lot lines with this scenario. This is what the application would look like without annexation. There is enough room for six lots that meet all R-8 zoning standards. However, we feel that our current development provides better lot lines for adjoining development and it cleans up city and ACHD lines by annexing this into the city. Another concern was the common drive. As you can see, the three homes on the east in green are served by a common drive outlined in red, showing that our project is not unique -- unique in this regard either. When we lived in Rosalyn we observed -- when we lived in the Rosalyn house we observed how the common drive to the east serves these homes very well and parking was never an issue. Our development will comply by the same parking standards. A few other benefits of our common drive are the three homes in the back are in a quiet and private location off the main road, which is a desirable feature for many people. Our common drive is larger than the one to the east and provides a turnaround option. Not only is it more functional and safe for homeowners, but it also provides an interior collection for trash and postal service. This picture shows the common drive is wide enough for cars passing each other. It's not like we see vehicles being passed -- or being parked in the -- in the common drive. We have counseled with city staff, our engineer, architect, to make this common drive very functional and safe. It is compliant with all emergency service requirements. Our intent is and always has been to develop a project with quality homes that we are proud of and they add value to our community. We listened to the concerns of our neighbors and city staff and adjusted our plans, even when our original proposal complied with all requirements. We hope that you can see our vision and why we have submitted this proposal. Having lived in this area for the last 24 years we have seen the changes our city has gone through and we understand the project can cause unsettling feelings for our neighbors, but we feel like this is the best thing for our community, for our neighbors for the future, for our children, retirees. It's a good opportunity to use this in-fill land and improve our community. Thank you. We will stand for any questions. Meridian City Council Work Session May 14,2024 Page 12 of 34 Strader: Thank you, Brett and Julie. Council Members, do you have any questions for the applicant? Taylor: Council Woman Strader? Strader: Councilman Taylor. Taylor: Thank you. Thanks for coming back and the -- to add a detail to some of your presentation. One question I have been wondering about -- and, first off, I -- there is a lot I like about it. I agree with you, the type of housing is -- is needed and I think that's -- I like a lot of what I'm seeing, but a couple of questions. You took into consideration concerns of the neighbors and tried to accommodate them. You took into account some of the concerns of Planning and Zoning. When we had the hearing before City Council we kind of -- you know, some of us shared some concerns and -- about it. I didn't see any effort to kind of maybe meet us part way with some of the concerns we outlined. I'm just wondering, you know, why that's the case. And I -- you know, some of the response you provided was, you know, a little bit more information, but I didn't -- I didn't -- I thought -- we kind of did the continuance of the hearing in an effort to sort of see if we could address some of the concerns that we brought up, but I didn't -- I didn't see that from you. So, I just wanted to ask you, you know, some of your thinking along those lines. Strader: Go ahead. B.Bingham: We feel like we addressed a lot of those -- or sorry, Councilman Taylor. We -- we feel like we addressed a lot of the concerns initially when we met with him and Julie addressed that, you know, we -- it was originally seven homes with attached and that would be atypical for the neighborhood. I can see their concerns and so we feel like we have already complain -- complied with a lot of the concerns that were brought before us and -- so, financially speaking, it will be very hard to do this with -- I mean the only -- the only other alternative is to do fewer lots and it's not -- it just won't work. I mean financially it won't work. It just costs too much for development. So, bottom line if -- if this is not approved it will stay an old home on three quarters of an acre that's not developable. That's really why we haven't been able to make any more changes and I think we have already done as much as we can. Taylor: Follow up if I may. Strader: Councilman Taylor, go ahead. Taylor: So, the -- the one area that I was -- that I highlighted that I was troubled with a little bit was the -- the access with this hammerhead and looking at your site designs it looks like that access road into it is 20 feet wide and just -- yeah. So, it's 20 feet wide coming in from East Rosalyn Drive. You know, the average car is six feet'ish wide. Your fire trucks, your garbage trucks, those are eight to ten feet wide. Now, I know it's not designed to have parking there and I know there will be some signs posted, but it's a Meridian City Council Work Session May 14,2024 Page 13 of 34 really dense development. I agree, the lot sizes match what's around -- I don't have -- I don't have any concerns with that. But I look at that and I -- you know, I brought that up last time and -- and we discussed that with the Fire Department as -- that is a big concern that they have to have the access to those three in the back. So, to that end I -- I am still -- I'm not sure how I'm going to vote tonight on this, but I am concerned about that, because it is a pretty narrow access point. While it sounds like it still checks all the boxes, I'm still concerned about some kinds of incidences or not having that access with that. So, just kind of bring it up and just whatever -- you know, whatever you can share with that. But that still remains a concern for me. Strader: Are we -- Elizabeth, would you like to be recognized to answer the -- go ahead. Koeckeritz: Council Member Strader, Council Member Taylor, yes, the fire code -- it does meet all of the city requirements and all of the International Fire Code requirements and so that's why that width and size and distance was landed on. It has been reviewed and it has been approved as it meets them all. Strader: Let me interject for a second. I think there is kind of a concern -- not only a safety concern, but there is a concern around parking; right? It's throughout the staff report. We know that people use their garages for storage. We know that a lot of households in Meridian have more than two vehicles. I was kind of hoping -- actually, think -- did we have someone from the Fire Department online? Is it Joe Bongiorno? If you are on, I would love for you to provide some commentary from the Fire Department on your level of comfort here. Bongiorno: We have similar lists throughout the city and I always express my concerns with them, because when it's a little tight knit neighborhood like this it turns into -- that's the RV parking spot. That's the boat parking spot. And people feel that, oh, well, it's -- it's -- it's in front of my house, so I can park there. It's safe. So, it's a problem for us. Unless you have something in your CC&Rs or in your governance that -- I recommend towing. If someone is parked on that blue section they get towed, because that's how much of a problem I feel they are. So, we have this all over the city. It can be done right, but, like everybody says -- you mentioned to yourself that people don't use their garages to put cars in anymore. That's their storage units and, you know, I had two high school girls and we had four cars and so if your garage is full of stuff where are the other two cars going to go? There is no guest parking in here. So, now you have six houses with Christmas, Easter -- pick a holiday, there is no way for people to park. They are automatically going to park in that blue spot. And, then, if we get called when their kitchen fryer catches fire, it's going to be a problem. So, yes, it does meet the fire code, but it's not the best solution for this scenario. Strader: Okay. Thank you, Deputy Chief. And, then, Councilman -- Council President Cavener, I saw you unmute yourself. I just wanted to check if you had a question or a comment. Cavener: No. Thank you, Council Vice-President Strader. Meridian City Council Work Session May 14,2024 Page 14 of 34 Strader: Can you --just a little bit hard to hear. Cavener: Sure can. It is that better? Strader: A little bit, yes. Cavener: This is -- this is a great compliment when people say they can't hear me. I'm loving this. I don't have any questions. My fellow Council Members have asked and the applicant has addressed them. I just -- I want to commend the Binghams for really coming this evening tonight and presenting their application on their own. Oftentimes we will get an applicant that will send somebody for a continuance to give them an opportunity take another crack. Sometimes it changes and I appreciate at least this evening that you came back and said, hey, we are -- you don't want to make any changes. We are going to keep our project as we envisioned it based on -- on the feedback and for you to come and do that as individuals is to be commended. So, I just I want to thank you for -- for coming and doing that this evening. Strader: Thank you. Okay. Do we have any other questions for the applicant? Okay. Thank you. All right. This is a public hearing. First I would like to check -- are there any HOA leaders in the room that are speaking on behalf of a group? Uh-huh. You are recognized for up to ten minutes. Come on up. Please remember to state your name and address for the record, please. Freeze: My name is Ken Freeze. I live at 195 East Rosalyn Drive and I'm here speaking on behalf on the San Gorgonio HOA. I see that they didn't change after a number of changes were asked for. The development -- as I said in my last presentation -- it's not -- I don't feel it's within the future land use. It's out -- it is out of character and I will show you how. Too many units and common driveway it just makes it unsafe. I'm not going to dwell too much on the Comprehensive Plan, except, you know, I think it's a real shame that there is this plan out there that seems to be stifled and -- and road blocked, because of legacy rules and zoning and whatnot. I -- I don't know what can be done about that in the future. But it seems a real shame that there is this beautiful plan for what Meridian could be and should be that seems to be blocked at every turn. This is what the Comprehensive Plan shows for this area and you can see that this lot's right in the middle of it. These lots right now -- currently we fall within what the Comprehensive Plan calls for, which is R-2. So, this is their plan. They have shown it to you a lot. I want to say one thing though. If you look at the common driveway that's to the east that's for the other HOA. In the event of a fire fire trucks wouldn't even need to use that road -- that common driveway, because there is complete access from the road on the other side. So, that's very different than what we have with the other three units in -- in their plan and their plan, if that road is blocked fire units can't get to it or they are going to have to drag some hoses off an awful long ways. An EMT unit wouldn't be able to get to it either. Something else I noticed was that a couple of the Council Members last time were doing a little bit of math and thought that the density was denser than eight per -- per acre and I added up some numbers and some -- some of the numbers don't add up. I came up with a difference of 21 square feet, Now, Meridian City Council Work Session May 14,2024 Page 15 of 34 granted, it's just 21 square feet. It's 21 square feet in their favor. But have to wonder where else are the numbers wrong on this plat, especially when they are wrong in their favor. So, this is the neighborhood. This is the street. All these lots currently are over 5,000 and most are over 6,000 square feet with the ones directly across the street just under 12,000 feet to 16,000 square feet. That's the neighborhood. They can show you homes all over the place. Show you how dense they are. But I'm talking about the immediate area. I found it very interesting, based on the comments from the last meeting, that the April 9th plat was the same plat tonight. Didn't make any effort to make any changes. In fact, when they were showing the -- the elevations they still had cars parked in the driveway. So, at the 9th -- on the 9th Council Member Cavener, our role as a Council is to listen to both sides, look at the map, look at the zoning and see what's in -- see what's entitled and make a decision about what's best for our community. Council Woman Strader -- Council Member Strader talking about the current zoning, you said it's been a long time and we have changed that -- the direction that we are going as a city. I don't feel that this is an appropriate transition for the neighborhood. Councilman Overton. I cannot in good conscience approve a development that's going to be R-8 that's going to be driving through low density residential roads out to Meridian Road. Three or even four of that is as much as I would ever give a yes vote for on this project. Councilman Taylor is talking about the hammerhead. Common driveway. The public safety component of this really does concern me, which he echoed again tonight. And Council Woman Roberts comments: don't feel in this case it's the best fit after what's around it, especially five acres, but it doesn't seem like it's going to change any -- anytime soon. I hope you come back with something that works for everyone. I think that we would like to see that. And, then, our representative from the Fire Department whose last name I won't try to butcher, because I'm sure I would -- he echoed again tonight about the parking. Hey, that's where I'm going to park my boat. Says it's always been a concern. Hammerheads, common driveways are always a problem. I don't like them, because they turn into parking places. Which he echoed again tonight. I presented this last time. You know, cutting this project from six homes to three homes is not going to have any effect on the housing market in Meridian. You all have seen all the homes that are being built. Even if this were to be six homes, it's like adding a drop of water to a swimming pool. It's not going to have that much effect on the housing market, if any at all. It would fit very nicely in the neighborhood as it sits right now. This would be in character. But I did go a step further. I went -- tried to put in four homes. Now, I would hope that their architectural firm could do a better job at squeezing the four homes than I did, but I was able to do it, so I would think they would be able to do it. This -- all the homes still have street access for emergency vehicles. Maybe a bit less attractive, but it's closer to the Meridian's own comprehensive plan for in future use land use and you can see this is how it would fit on the street. There will be better trash and mail pickup room off street for any parking when the residents there decided to have a party. Plenty of parking. The HOA is not against developing. I just -- I just showed you two different examples that the HOA would definitely support. Six homes are just wrong for this. There is much safer ways to develop this property fewer homes that fit into the surrounding neighborhood. We ask that the request to annex the .014 acres of land be rejected until suitable plans are presented to the Council. Got some closing thoughts for you. I work Meridian City Council Work Session May 14,2024 Page 16 of 34 with a guy -- he had been -- he was a Coast Guard officer. He was a commander. His name was Jack Hardin and he had been an investigator on the NTSB and we were talking about accidents and he made a statement that I didn't understand. He said there is no such thing as human error, just poor designs that allow errors to be made. This hammerhead in virtually any common driveway are poor designs and shouldn't be allowed in the city. The design needlessly puts lives at risk. Thank you. Strader: Thank you, Mr. Freeze. Council, do you have any questions? Cavener: Council Vice-President Strader? Strader: Council President Cavener. Cavener: Thank you, Mr. Freeze. Always appreciate your presentation. I hope your HOA gives you like a plate of cookies or something. That was a well put together presentation. Just -- just one question for you to kind of get where you need and your homeowners association stands to the annexation point that you -- you are recommending that we deny. Should the Council take up your recommendation and deny that annexation, the applicant still has some current entitled rights and they feel that they could move forth and develop six homes as presented. I think I asked you this question last time you were before us, but taking all that into consideration do you still feel that the Council should deny that small annexation request that was recommended by our Planning Department? Freeze: Yes. I think it should be denied until they present a plan that is suitable to the Council. You mentioned about the right to develop it and I agree they have a right to develop it. However, zoning rules and laws and all these things, they can never be a hundred percent a hundred percent of the time. That's why something like all these come before the Council, because it needs to be looked at by people and people need to look and see what will work, what's safe and what's the best for the people who are going to buy these homes. If -- if all you had to do was go by the zoning rules or laws, then, you wouldn't even need to bring it before the Council. You just have it go through planning, planning looks at it, legal looks at it and it gets stamped and it gets built. That's not the way things are done in America and that's why something like a plan like this comes before a council to make a final decision, so that -- so that real people can do the weights and balances and figure out what is really the best in spite of what maybe all the codes and having all the T's crossed and all the I's dotted properly. Thank you. Little Roberts: Madam Vice-President? Strader: Council Woman Little Roberts. Little Roberts: Mr. Freeze, thank you so much for your presentation. I'm not as familiar with that area as I should be, so when you named your HOA I did not know where it is in relation to the property. Meridian City Council Work Session May 14,2024 Page 17 of 34 Freeze: It is the three houses that are right to the east that adjoin this property. Little Roberts: Okay. Freeze: In fact, had at one time been part of that property. Little Roberts: Okay. Freeze: And when it was -- it was basically subdivided, the person that I talked to that had owned that he was going to build a home there and decided it was going to be too expensive, so that he thought it was only going to be one home built. All the neighbors had -- were told there was only going to be one home. Next thing they know -- nobody attended any of the meetings and the next thing you know three foundations are going in. Shock to everybody. So, that's one of the reasons I'm at this meeting. Strader: Thank you, Mr. Freeze. Are there any further questions? Okay. Thank you so much. Freeze: Thank you. Strader: Are there any members of the public who would like to testify? Please go ahead and raise your hand if you are here in the room. Okay. Sir, with the white shirt. Come on up. Please remember to state your name and address for the record. You are recognized for three minutes. Olsen: How long? I'm sorry? Strader: Three minutes. Olsen: Three minutes. Okay. My name is John Olsen. I live at 5090 West Overland Road here in Meridian and I am here in favor of the Binghams' proposal. I work actually professionally as a commercial real estate agent here in town. I was born and raised right here in Meridian. I have been here since 1981 . My mother graduated from Meridian High School. My grandfather graduated from Meridian High School and my daughter is graduating this week for Meridian High School. So, to say that I have seen a lot of development would be an understatement in this area and I have -- myself have been part of some of it. As I see it -- I ran into Brett recently and he said, hey, I have got this small development going on I'm trying to get done. I'm a veterinarian. I heal dogs for a living. Would you mind taking a look at it and seeing what you think. And so I said, sure, I would love to. I looked at it. I compared it to the, you know, Meridian development laws and kind of the Bible that we abide by in this city in terms of development and I said this looks great. I believe it should be approved. I don't really see too much of reason why it shouldn't be and he said we have gone through Planning and Zoning and reworked a few things and asked if I would be here to speak. As I see it in Meridian we have got a little bit of a problem. We talk about Meridian being a great place to live, work and raise a family and our housing costs are out of control. Quite Meridian City Council Work Session May 14,2024 Page 18 of 34 simply the opportunity to raise a family doesn't exist in Meridian if your household income isn't north of 150,000 dollars. Under current real estate prices and interest rates these homes -- I talked with Brett today, he said the goal is to land them at a price of about 425,000 with 25,000 dollars down and a seven and a half percent interest rate, which is what things are sitting, you would be looking at about a 3,000 dollar a month payment. The apartments that had been approved consistently in Meridian, most of those are right now leasing for 2,000 dollars. So, this would be a step, hopefully, from those apartments to maybe some single family homes. As I mentioned, I was born and raised here. I wanted to raise my family here and I experienced this exact same issue 25 years ago when I was married. We wanted to live in Meridian and we could afford a hundred thousand dollar house and it just wasn't there. So, we moved to Nampa. The same house in Meridian was 140,000 at that time. But, fortunately, my wife raised our five children and is raising them right now. My income increased and we were able to move back and we came back to Meridian as soon as we had the opportunity. We claim to be a family friendly community. I wonder if we really are. Strader: Can you complete your thoughts? Olsen: Yes, I will. We have these rules that are in place to protect the property owners around us and I believe that this project with the six homes and that 42,5000 dollars fit within what Meridian is trying to accomplish according to its mission. Strader: Thank you, Mr. Olsen. Olsen: Thank you. Cavener: Council, Vice-President? Strader: Councilman Cavener. Oh, please stick around if you don't mind for questions. Olsen: No problem. Yes, sir. Cavener: Just a -- just a quick question, because, again, I'm remote, so I may not be hearing you correct and I want to give you a chance to correct the record. But it certainly sounded like you insinuated that if we are opposed to this project that we somehow don't subscribe to the notion that Meridian is a family friendly community. 1, too, have lived in Meridian my entire life and certainly don't feel that way and, frankly, have never heard somebody make that type of insinuation. So, I wanted to give you a chance to see if that's truly what you were trying to state or maybe you misspoke or potentially I misheard you. Olsen: Sure. Yes. When I -- and maybe I'm a little old school, Mr. Cavener, but believe that a -- you know, a family friendly community makes it so that people can afford to live here and I'm just really truly worry that Meridian is priced -- I'm looking down at you, sorry, because I'm seeing -- Meridian City Council Work Session May 14,2024 Page 19 of 34 Cavener: That's okay. Olsen: I really am truly worried that we have kind of priced ourselves out of that. If you look at Meridian, our population is aging and most of the people that have lived here and are graduating from local high schools and local colleges simply cannot afford to live here. The first group that happened to was the north end of Boise. Second it happened in Eagle and now it's come to Meridian. If you look at the price of real estate in those areas, Meridian, in terms of -- in terms of the cost of real estate sits about third. North -- south Meridian sits third, North Meridian sits fourth and so I really worry that we are pricing ourselves -- for those that have lived here for a while it's okay, sure, but for new families coming in, yes, sir, I do believe it's an issue. Cavener: Council Vice-President, follow up? Strader: Just answering Councilman Cavener's question, just a comment. You know, the gentrification has been a part of real estate processes in many cities for years. It's unfortunate, but it is a reality and certainly our, you know, national monetary and fiscal policy has created a lot of large asset bubbles, including in real estate, and I think it is a bit of an overstep to accuse the Council of not caring about the cost of housing in our community. So, I appreciate you answering Councilman Cavener's questions. Does anyone else have a question for Mr. Olsen? Fantastic. Thank you. You can sit down. Thanks. Olsen: All right. Thanks. Strader: Madam Vice-President, if I may? Strader: Absolutely, Council -- Council Woman Little Roberts. Little Roberts: Madam Vice-President. Mr. Olsen. Olsen: Yes. You're welcome. Little Roberts: Just off the top of your head about how many homes are for sale right now in Meridian and about how many of those are at the 425,000 dollar price point or kind of in that ballpark? Olsen: I'm glad you asked. I'm glad you asked. I actually looked at it today -- and keep in mind I do mainly commercial -- commercial groups and commercial assets. But I did look today and there were currently -- at 425,000 or less homes built right -- south of the freeway I should say. I didn't look north of the freeway, but where this development is south of the freeway I looked and it was right around 40 1 believe is how many -- how many there were and that was under construction or currently on the market. Little Roberts: Thank you. Meridian City Council Work Session May 14,2024 Page 20 of 34 Olsen: Yes. Thanks. Little Roberts: You're welcome. Strader: Okay. Any -- this is a public hearing. Any other members of the audience or the public who would like to testify? Ma'am in the yellow, if you would, please, approach the podium and, please, let us know your name and address for the public record. Thank you. Larrea: Thank you. Thank you, Council. I don't know exactly the proper thing. I am Jan Larrea. I live at 100 East Rosalyn and I have been here 50 years and I have been in that house 48 years. We are in the county, so it doesn't really -- there is no -- like Councilman Overton mentioned, there is no sidewalks and gutters from that property all the way down the Meridian Road and it's the same -- you know, they came back with the same plan and I have the same concern. We maintain all the property from our fence line to the road. It's mowed, taken care of all the way up to Meridian highway. They are going to be parking there. There is just no doubt about it. They are going to be parking there. So, it's just too dense. I think they could get by with three or four houses and it would be great. I know how much they paid for the property. So, it's -- you know, how much profit they want to make, but that's not any of your concern. So, it's just wrong. It's just too many houses and too many people up and down the road and they go fast on that road, because they think nobody lives there. So, that's my concern. Any questions? Strader: Thank you, ma'am. I'm just checking if there are any questions. Okay. Looks like there are no questions. Thank you. Okay. I think there was another question the gentleman with the glasses in the back, please. Jensen: Good evening, Members of the Meridian City Council. My name is Eric Jensen. My address is 1763 Micron Lane in Meridian. I'm an Idaho native. I grew up here in Boise and I moved to Meridian shortly after my wife Mary and I started having children 20 years ago. My business is also located here in Meridian and I'm proud to say that I live, work and play in Meridian every day. I have also spent many years in the past volunteering on various Meridian city boards and committees. Through that time I have had the pleasure of watching as the city has grown into one of the best places, in my opinion, to live in the entire valley. Part of what attracted -- attracted us to Meridian back then was that it was the center of the valley, which was convenient for me in my real estate business, but also it was an area that we could afford a home here in Meridian as a young family raising our children. Today, as a real estate broker with 25 years of experience representing buyers and sellers -- sellers around the valley, I see a growing shortage of smaller, reasonably priced homes that are similar to what me and my family purchased 20 years ago. Having access to all the sales data I thought it might be beneficial to share with you some of the challenges that are facing these young professionals or retirees that may be looking for a smaller, low maintenance detached home that they can call their own. So, as of today there is only one home for sale between 1,200 and 1,700 square feet on a smaller low maintenance lot within a Meridian City Council Work Session May 14,2024 Page 21 of 34 one mile radius of the proposed development. Expanding my search to the entire area of Meridian there is only eight homes that fall within that same criteria that somebody could purchase right now. In the last year within that same one mile radius there were only 13 homes which were approximate -- there were only 13 homes were sold and these homes sold in an average of ten days, which is approximately 80 percent faster than the county average of 49 days, which to me means that there is an outsize demand for homes like the ones that are being proposed in the Rosalyn Subdivision. This location is an ideal spot for an in-fill project like this. It's an efficient -- an efficient use of the existing urban space. It reduces urban sprawl. It's got great walkability to stores, restaurants and amenities and immediate access to the freeway. It doesn't pose any additional burden on any of the infrastructure. That's already there in my opinion and -- and my understanding is that it's still well within the density guidelines for the Comprehensive Plan. For these reasons I'm in favor of approval for the proposed Rosalyn Subdivision and if there is any questions I appreciate your time. Thank you. Strader: Thank you. Okay. Are there any questions for Mr. Jensen? Okay. Thank you. Okay. Sir, in the green. Nauslar: Thank you. My name is Nick Nauslar and I live at 215 East Blue Lark Court in Meridian. I share a fence on the north side of this property and I applaud the Binghams. I said this in March at the Planning and Zoning Commission for going from seven townhomes down to six single family. I think some of that was they were never going to get seven townhomes probably approved. But they did listen to us in that sense. It's still, you know, by my math violates the R-8 zoning barely, but it does, but I know that's not exactly a hard and fast rule. But from my perspective -- I know some of the neighbors may disagree with me, but maybe five single family homes, there would be no argument from me, because it complies with the zoning, the need for, you know, smaller single family homes for someone that's moved here relatively recently the cost of homes is skyrocketing as we moved here and understand how those price points can accelerate quite quickly. So, understand the need for more homes, especially at this price point. Also understand the need of return on investment that the Binghams made and I respect that and applaud them for taking the risk and trying to do this. I just think it would be better at four to five homes, given the current zoning and just the construction -- or, excuse me, the design of what they are using in terms of the roads. My brother -- brother-in-law and cousin are both firefighters in Omaha. I have worked in wildland fire and so, you know, first responders and emergency services are always on my mind and that always gives me pause to see those sorts of designs. Thank you. Strader: Thank you. Are there any questions? Okay. Thanks. Okay. Checking if there are any other folks in the room who would like to testify. Okay. Going once. Going twice. And is there anyone online -- if you are online, please, go ahead and use the raise your hand feature on the Zoom platform to indicate if you would like to testify. Mr. Clerk, do you have anybody -- I don't see anyone online, but do you see anyone? Johnson: Madam Vice-President, anyone I don't recognize, but they are not raising their hand. Meridian City Council Work Session May 14,2024 Page 22 of 34 Strader: Okay. Again, we have a second, if you would like to raise your hand. If not -- okay. Thank you. All right. Council, do you have any questions or discussion or should we go ahead and invite the applicant to close? Little Roberts: Madam Vice-President? Strader: Council Woman Little Roberts. Little Roberts: I would like some clarification. We have had a couple of different discussions regarding the piece -- and this may come from Bill or Stacy -- that they can go ahead and build if we deny the annexation and as it is, with just kind of carving out that piece, I just wanted to make sure that that was -- we were understanding that correctly. Strader: Thank you. Mr. Nary, would be a good person to answer that in conjunction with Planning. Thank you. Nary: And, Madam Vice-President, Members of the Council, Council Member Little Roberts, the only concern I have is we had that prior discussion is that the way the plat is currently situated it is included in -- in the plat design, so they would have to redraw the plat. Now, I would concede to Stacy if they felt comfortable from Planning that if the plat were to be approved with a requirement that it have to be withdrawn without that piece, that it wouldn't significantly change the design, then, you could certainly do that. But that -- I don't know that answers your question. That's my only concern is I think the prior discussion was we would have to redraw it, because of taking that piece out of it, but I wasn't sure how much significant that piece is to the rest of the project, so -- Strader: And, Mr. Nary, can I ask a question as well? Nary: Certainly. Strader: So, with that if this -- this application and the plat were denied this evening if they wanted to proceed under the existing zoning would they need to submit a new plat? Nary: Madam Vice-President, Members of the Council, yeah, I mean -- so, if -- if the -- if the plat could not be -- could not be done without that annexed piece without making significant changes they would have to bring it back. Again, they would still need to comply with all our code and requirements, which may still look similar, but I just -- again, I -- I'm not a planner, so I couldn't tell you if that piece could simply be excised out without a significant change to the plan as it's presented. Strader: Thank you, Mr. Nary. Stacy, over to you. If that little piece were not annexed, you know, would they meet the dimensional standards? Is that something you have been able to establish or not? Meridian City Council Work Session May 14,2024 Page 23 of 34 Hersh: Madam Vice-President Strader, Members of the Council, so here is their example. But they would just have to meet the required lot sizes and the required dimensions for the -- for the lots and the homes on the lots and it looks as though they can. Strader: There is a plus and a hash tag -- well, there is a plus and a minus -- that might be doing some heavy lifting there. So, I'm not sure -- I think in the applicant's closing remarks it would be important for them to try to walk us through what the plus-minus means exactly and what the difference is exactly. Thank you. Okay. Council Woman Little Roberts. Did that answer your questions for staff? Are there any more? Little Roberts: Yes. Thank you. Strader: Okay. Fantastic. Okay. All right. Seeing no further questions for the applicant or staff at this time, I would like to go ahead and invite the applicant up for their closing remarks. I will check with the clerk. I believe you have ten minutes. Okay. Thank you. Koeckeritz: Madam Vice-President, Council Members, Elizabeth Koeckeritz with Givens Pursley. First, to address the lot sizes with the plus-minus, this was not done fully dimensioned. It was -- no one actually -- it was done as a rough sketch, but not as an actual plat to be submitted. However, in looking at it each of these lots is enough over that I think we could get there, where we could meet with the actual architect, land surveyor and lay it out. Because the minimum size is the 4,000 square feet and so these are somewhat over it. So, we do believe that we could get there. But this was just to be more of a rough -- rough showing to show that it still could work, even without the annexation. I would like to just briefly address -- Council Member Taylor, you asked why we didn't really come back with that, there really weren't any changes and the applicants here they explained to you just the hope, the -- the reason why is that they really wanted to come back and just try to give you a better understanding of why they had made the choices that they made at the time that they made them and, two, try to hope to get you to understand better why they made these changes, why they didn't want to make anymore changes and really leave it at that. But this plat, it does work. The annexation piece is at the request of the city. How it is currently laid out there would have to be a little bit of reconfiguring to make this sort of work without the annexation parcel. However, we are very confident that it could work in the future. As far as the roads go, it is a road that's been improved up to local road standards. This is not like some really small tiny road there, it is the road that was improved all of the other traffic from the remaining subdivision all behind it. They use the same road. It has been improved. It is something that is used regularly by vehicles, But as you heard most of the people go up north through the neighborhood to get to the local businesses, rather than going out onto Meridian Road, which doesn't have sidewalks at this point in time. Additionally, as far as the hammerheads go, they are approved throughout Meridian. The drive directly adjacent -- that private drive the individuals park on their driving pads or in their driveway. There haven't been any real concerns there. The other neighbors throughout the neighborhood are also able to primarily park on their driving pads. It will be signed no parking. There can be towing signs as well. And the Binghams intend to Meridian City Council Work Session May 14,2024 Page 24 of 34 maintain control and have some control over this for some time, so they will be there sort of watching these things to make sure that it really does happen. And I guess just in close, that this property is -- is zoned R-8. It has been zoned R-8 for quite some time and it does meet all of the dimensional standards for the R-8 zone, excepting those four lots, all of the rest of the lots surrounding this development are within, you know, 80, a hundred square feet of where they sit on these lots. It is absolutely congruent with the neighborhood. It meets all of your zoning standards and requirements. It meets all of Meridian's parking access lot size, all of those dimensional standards and so we do ask that it be approved this evening. Strader: Are there any final questions? Overton: Madam Mayor -- or Madam Vice-President? Strader: Council Councilman Overton. Overton: Put that in the bank. Strader: I don't know about that one. Go ahead. Overton: I have got to ask you. I have known Rosalyn since about 1977 and my first thought -- that was before it was asphalt. What improvements have been done to that road? Koeckeritz: The improvements by the house have all been done. As far as continuing out it's my understanding that it meets the ACHD minimum road requirements. Overton: For a county road. Koeckeritz: For a county -- for a county road, yes. Overton: Correct. Thank you. Strader: Thank you. Any other questions? Okay. Thank you. Stick around. Okay. Council, we have heard from the public. We have heard from the applicants. Do we have any discussion, deliberations, motions? Overton: Madam Vice-President? Strader: Councilman Overton. Overton: Where we get into discussion should we close the public hearing? If so, I move that we close the public hearing. Little Roberts: Second. Meridian City Council Work Session May 14,2024 Page 25 of 34 Strader: Okay. We have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. All those in favor, please, signify by saying aye. The ayes have it. The public hearing is closed. MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES. Overton: Madam Vice-President? Strader: Councilman Overton. Overton: I didn't speak much before, because, basically, I spoke before and nothing really changed. We are looking at the same application that was brought before us before and my position hasn't changed. When I got on this Council one of the first things I got involved with was making sure that we don't approve a development that causes any more danger to anyone on our roadways where we can prevent it from the very beginning. Having additional cars driving on Rosalyn, which is not built to city standards, it's not a city residential street, it's a county road, and even though we are the city, I still respect those areas that are in the county, because they are all around us and I have remembered them for the last 45, 46, 47 years. I spend my time working with our transportation planners on trying to enhance the safety of our roadways and our intersections and I could never in good conscience approve this when I'm dealing with a roadway I'm adding traffic to that has no curb, gutter, sidewalks or streetlights. don't like the situation the way it is now, but I wasn't sitting on Council when those earlier decisions were made. They are there and we have to deal with them. But where my stance is is from where I sit right now. There is a need for houses this size. I run a real simple exercise when it comes to projects like this. Two pronged. It's the right project and the right place. I think there is a need for projects like this, but I think it's the wrong place and even though we are only talking about an annexation of land here tonight and the fact that you may still be able to build this regardless of what we do, cannot support the annexation tonight to build this project in this location. Strader: Okay. Thank you. Taylor: Madam Vice-President? Strader: Councilman Taylor. Taylor: So, I think the answer to my questions, why nothing changed, wasn't to just give us more information about why we were there, the real answer was because it makes sense financially. That's the only way it works. I have zero problem with that. I think that's great. I have no problem with that. I don't even have much of a concern with the density. Sympathetic to the concerns for the neighbors, but that doesn't bother me. The school issue, that's not a concern. And I -- the topic that was brought up about addressing the issue of housing and affordability I mean last week we approved hundreds of homes and we took a lot of heat for that approval and continue to do so. So, definitely you will hear me often say the solution to our housing problem is more housing, because that brings supply and demand online and that brings it down. We Meridian City Council Work Session May 14,2024 Page 26 of 34 are a little bit of a victim of our own success for having such a great community, because everybody wants to come here and I agree unless something changes in 20 years Meridian is going to be the city of older people and not younger families and that really bothers me and concerns me. So, I do constantly struggle with that. So, I do appreciate the idea of bringing some more homes on. In terms of access with the hammerhead -- again, I'm just going to repeat that. I know you can say that the HOA and the Binghams will watch it and help to kind of manage it, but this property will be here in 50 years -- in 40 years and it's going to outlast the people in this room and I think the concern is still really valid. When my Meridian Police Department says tonight we have a big problem with hammerheads, it sticks out in my mind, so I think I'm inclined to not support the application tonight, even though that probably goes against what I typically would say, because objective -- if someone is objectively meeting all the criteria we laid out, it's really hard for me to -- to not say, then, yes, let's move forward. But there is a measure of subjective analysis that we have to put into this and I'm just going to kind of echo what Councilman Overton said about this, it just doesn't seem like it's a good idea and for me it's a public safety component. I have no problem, again, with the density or any of that. I like -- I like the homes. I have been complimentary of that. But I'm bothered by that and I don't in good conscience feel like I should say that it's okay to move ahead. So, tonight I'm going to -- I'm going to be opposed to this application. Strader: Thank you. Little Roberts: Madam Vice-President? Strader: Council Woman Little Roberts. Little Roberts: Madam Vice-President, I'm definitely struggling. Gone back and forth. We have worked diligently over the years to try to get great in-fill projects and I do believe that this meets that criteria. Definitely bothers me about the hammerhead. I understand that it meets all the regulations, but when fire brings up again that doesn't feel like it's optimal as far as safety and, then, didn't realize about the road that Councilman Overton has brought up from his years of experience with police, those both concern me, but, on the other hand, I'm also -- you know, like to honor the hard work of our staff and we asked for this potential enclave to be annexed and so that weighs heavily on me, too, because we have worked diligently trying to get these enclaves annexed in. So, honestly, I am still -- I'm leaning more towards supporting the project, but there is definitely my concerns, but I think that their diligence in working with and creating an HOA and making sure that they work with the fire for whatever would remediate Fire's concerns, whether it's posted that it's towed or things like that, I think that we can work with that. So, I will be supporting the project. Strader: Okay. Thank you. Cavener: Council Vice-President. Meridian City Council Work Session May 14,2024 Page 27 of 34 Strader: Councilman -- Council President Cavener. Cavener: Thank you, Council Vice-President. Strader: Get a little closer if you can. Cavener: Sorry. I was hoping it would help, but maybe not. A quick question for -- for staff. Strader: I don't think we can hear you at all. Just a minute. Just hold on a second. Chris is going to adjust the volume. Cavener: Check one. Check two. Better? There we go. All right. Thank you, Council Vice-President Strader. A question for staff. It seems a little bit -- it sounds like at least two of my colleagues are in opposition. I remain opposed to this project. It's a -- it's a bad project. Our -- we -- we all have different philosophies about the proper role of government, but I think we all agree that health and safety and well-being of our community is what makes Meridian a family friendly community and those are going to be my biggest concerns about this project, because I don't -- I wouldn't want my kids living in this house with the challenges with the streets. I think the challenge with the hammerhead, I hope there is no emergencies that are going to be needed. We are going to have a real big challenge if this project is built. Which brings me to my question for staff. Because the applicant said they will move forward with this project regardless, are there any recommendations -- or I don't know if we can implement a development agreement or something along those lines that give greater protections for towing, emergency response -- I mean, candidly, I will just -- I will just be frank. I -- the applicant says they are -- they are Meridian people. I believe that. They said they care about our community. They care about our neighbors. That the right decision here is to withdraw this project and come back and bring something that's better. And because there has been a lot of insinuations tonight about our community, I guess I will make one, which is that if you care about our community you should withdraw the project and bring back something that's more in line with what our community desires. If you don't want to do that I think that we need staff to work with them to put added mitigations in to make this a safer project. So, that would be my question for staff, if there is anything that we can do around that. I sure hope there is, because that is the -- the best worst scenario that we could explore. Strader: Thank you. I will go to Stacy first from Planning's perspective, what guardrails could be put in place here? Hersh: Madam Vice-President Strader, President Cavener and Members of the Council, so we can add Fire's comments about no parking signs in the development agreement, but I -- Bill might have to weigh in on towing signs. I don't know that we can control putting towing signs up on the common drive. Strader: Okay. Meridian City Council Work Session May 14,2024 Page 28 of 34 Cavener: Madam Vice-President Strader, some -- maybe quick question as well on that for Fire. Could we require these homes to be sprinklered? Bongiorno: Absolutely. Strader: Okay. Bongiorno: If you guys wish that is another option you can do. Strader: I like that that's creative and might solve the issue to some extent, although I don't know the cost. Thank you. Mr. Nary, do you have anything to add from a legal perspective? Nary: So, Madam Vice-President, Members of Council, I would agree with Stacy, we can certainly require signage, because this is a driveway not a road we couldn't require towing off of that. So, there is no -- no tow requirements that we could impose on that and I don't know from -- Deputy Chief would know better to me on whether or not there is any requirement -- minimum requirements to require houses be sprinkled. I know we have had that question when dealing with access issues regarding secondary access, but I -- I'm not aware of any other project we have had of this size that we have required that, so -- Strader: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Nary. But legally is there any reason that we would not be able to require sprinklers? Nary: Madam Vice-President, I guess that's the question I don't know. We haven't talked about that previously and Deputy Chief Bongiorno and I, but I can't think of one project of this size that we have ever required it. So, I don't know what requirements might -- might be a trigger. We haven't talked about that and that hasn't been discussed throughout this project. So, I don't know. Strader: Okay. Did that answer all of your questions? Council President Cavener. Okay. Just -- just to add my thoughts. I also am opposed to this project. I don't think that this is the right project in the right place at the right time. I agree it is critical that we continue to approve housing in the City of Meridian and we are absolutely doing that, despite a lot of challenges that come with growth, but in this case I share the concern around parking and safety and I think those concerns kind of go together, as well as, you know, adding more density along a county road that does not have any of the, you know, amenities that we would expect in the City of Meridian. I think it remains to be seen and I think the neighbors probably understand this, but if this is denied this evening that doesn't mean that this project might not happen, it could -- it's possible that it will still move forward. I think it remains to be seen and it's a question about whether, in fact, they will be able to meet the city's requirements, you know, with six lots and not that little annexed piece. I don't know. I don't think we received a direct answer to that question. A probably was the answer. So, you know, we will have to see on that. But overall I'm where Councilman Overton is in the sense that at the end of the day there is Meridian City Council Work Session May 14,2024 Page 29 of 34 a level of subjectivity and just a question of is this the right project. I don't think that this is the right project for this location at this time. So, I think it sounds like we have -- we have got -- with the exception of one person I think we have some alignment. So, I will ask the Council if there are some motions they would like to entertain at this time. Taylor: Council Vice-President Strader, just to clarify. So, obviously, I think we know where the Council's feeling is on this, but in terms of a development agreement with any additional guardrails, would that be -- would we need to have that as part of the motion tonight to instruct the staff to work on a new development agreement with the applicant on that? I'm just not clear what's required. This is, essentially, a new application. So, can you clarify, because I think there is a consensus -- obviously we are not approving this, but if we are to ask for some guardrails to be in place do we do that in the motion tonight? Strader: That's a great question. Well, I think maybe before we go to that question I would like to ask the applicant maybe one more time if they would like to withdraw their application this evening or if they would like us to go ahead and -- and vote, because I would like to give them that opportunity. Cavener: Madam Vice-President, do we need to reopen the public hearing, then, on that? Strader: My apologies. Yeah. That would require opening the public hearing again. Cavener: Madam Vice-President? Strader: Yes, Councilman Cavener. Cavener: I move that we reopen the public hearing to allow the applicant an opportunity to provide input. Strader: A second? Overton: Second. Strader: Okay. Great. Would the applicant or the applicant's representative like to approach in a second when you have a chance to -- Cavener: Madam Vice-President? Strader: Yes, Councilman Cavener. Cavener: I recognize probably a lot was thrown out at the applicant. Certainly if they need a few minutes to confer if we want to recess for a few minutes. I -- Meridian City Council Work Session May 14,2024 Page 30 of 34 Strader: That's what I was just thinking. Let's go ahead and take like a ten minute recess to give the applicant and everyone a chance to take a bio break, get a cup of water and, hopefully, we will hear from them. Thank you. (Recess: 7:33 p.m. to 7:43 p.m.) Strader: Okay. Welcome back, everyone. Go ahead and come back from our recess. And I would like to recognize the applicant. If you could, please, approach and comment on whether you are open to withdraw or you just would like to move forward this evening with a decision. Thank you. Koeckeritz: Elizabeth Koeckeritz. Givens Pursley. Madam Vice-President, City Council Members, the applicant would actually ask for one more continuance to see if there is a way to come up with a financially viable smaller lot subdivision that really meets some of your concerns without having -- that still allows the property to be annexed, which is something the city had requested to -- without having to go back through the entire reapplication neighborhood process -- neighborhood meeting process. It seems like that's what we are hearing and so that's what they would -- that is what we would ask for at this point in time. If we are unable to come up with something that works for that, then, they would intend on just withdrawing the application. Strader: Okay. Thank you for that feedback. Councilman Overton. Overton: Madam Vice-President. Strader: Yes. Overton: We need a continuance date before we move forward and close the public hearing. Johnson: I was going to defer to the applicant, Madam Vice-President. Taylor: Madam Vice-President? Strader: Councilman Taylor. Taylor: If you were to have a continuance -- four weeks, six weeks, 12 weeks, what -- what's the -- four weeks? Strader: Just some feedback. I do feel like the purpose of the continuance last time was for this very purpose and if I were putting my -- we tried to -- we always are trying to find compromises, you know, that work. If I'm putting myself in the shoes of the public I think I would have a level of frustration here around the number of continuances. So, let me mull that over for a second, too. And, then, I will check with other Council Members how they are feeling about that as well. Council President Cavener, you are speaking, Meridian City Council Work Session May 14,2024 Page 31 of 34 but we cannot hear you, so we will give you a minute to get a little closer, please. Thank you. You are on mute still. Cavener: Yeah. I was -- I was on mute. Boy, way above my technical expertise. So -- and Elizabeth had sat down. But my question would be -- Council President Strader, your feedback has -- is exactly where I am. The members of the public had been through Planning and Zoning, a couple of City Council meetings, and what -- I guess what I'm looking for is -- I don't want the members of the public to have to come to another City Council meeting to learn, then, that the applicant intends to withdraw their application and so I think some commitment from the applicant that they are either going say bring something back that is in line with the feedback that Council has provided that they have heard from the community or notice of their intent to withdraw to give the members of the HOA and our community that have been coming to these meetings to keep them informed, so that they aren't giving up yet another night to come down here only to find out that their intention is to withdraw. Strader: Thank you, Council President Cavener. I think that's some fantastic feedback for you to comment on, please. It is very frustrating for members of the public to find out something's being withdrawn right before a meeting, so -- Koeckeritz: Madam Vice-President, Council Member Cavener, that is in -- that -- I agree that is a very good point. It is strange to look down on you standing right here. But, yes, we would commit to withdrawing with adequate time to notice -- to let people know that this would not be coming forward. Strader: Uh-huh. And I have a further question. Will we be seeing an application with a reduction in density. Koeckeritz: That is the intent, if they can go back, look at it, financially make it work. Strader: I would highly encourage you to take that approach, yeah, of reducing the density significantly in order to garner an approval if possible. Thank you. Okay. Sorry. Because our -- Mr. Freeze, I will go ahead and recognize you quickly for relevant comments specific to the possibility of a continuance, please. Thank you. Freeze: Again it's Ken Freeze. 195 East Rosalyn. If they come back with a plan that has three or four homes, I can virtually guarantee the endorsement of that project from the HOA. Strader: Thank you, sir. Fantastic. Okay. And that wasn't -- it sort of related to continuance, but I think it gives us all really good feedback to go off of what some folks would like to see. Okay. Okay. So, four weeks from now. Do we have some dates from the clerk that will work? Fantastic. Okay. We are going to need to close the public hearing once again and, then, we can entertain -- oh, no. I'm sorry. We will keep the public hearing open, but I would entertain a motion for continuance at this time. Meridian City Council Work Session May 14,2024 Page 32 of 34 Overton: Madam Vice-President? Strader: Councilman Overton. Overton: The dates June 18th or June 25 for a continuance. Strader: Okay. If the applicant could go ahead and provide some feedback on those dates real quick. I'm sorry, you need to come to the microphone here a little closer for Dean and all of us to have an accurate record. Koeckeritz: What are the dates after that? I have a long-scheduled vacation under two weeks. Strader: Okay. Overton: Madam Vice-President. Strader: Yes, Councilman Overton. Overton: The date after that appears to be July 9th. Koeckeritz: July 9th works great. Strader: Okay. Thank you. Overton: Madam Vice-President, should we now close the public hearing? Strader: That would be fantastic if you would move to do that. Move to close the public hearing. Strader: Okay. Johnson: Madam Vice-President, you will keep that public hearing open for the continuance. Overton: Oh. Pardon me. Strader: Well, we made the same mistake twice. Mr. Clerk, I apologize. Councilman Overton. Overton: Madam Vice-President, I withdraw that motion to close. Strader: Withdraw accepted. Meridian City Council Work Session May 14,2024 Page 33 of 34 Overton: Make a motion to continue File No. H-2023-0056 to the hearing date of July 9th, 2024, to allow the applicant to meet with staff to see if they can come up with a suitable density level for this project before being brought back. Cavener: Second. Strader: Okay. Do I have a second? Fantastic. We have got a motion and a second to continue the public hearing to July 9th. Do we need a roll call on this? Okay. All those in favor signify by saying aye. Nays? The ayes have it and the application is continued. Thank you everyone for your patience. I know it's been a very long process, but hopefully we will get it right. Okay? MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES. Cavener: Council Vice-President Strader. Strader: Council President Cavener. Yes. Cavener: Real quick. I apologize for being out of order. Sometimes we have an opportunity for comment before a vote. Just real quick if I may, just a quick moment of privilege. You all know how much I love City Council. You know how much I love our community. I'm fiercely defensive about our community and our Council and sometimes that passion and enthusiasm bubbles over, particularly in a hotel room in Denver, Colorado. I allowed my emotions to get the best of me this evening and I just would like to take a quick opportunity to apologize to the applicant, staff, the public and certainly you all, Council. I am always constantly trying to improve and apologies for letting my emotions get the best of me. Strader: Council President Cavener, that's very thoughtful. I think all of us have positive intentions for our community and it comes out in different ways, that passion, and including members of the audience and that's okay. I think, you know, robust discussion is fine and robust defense of City Council is fine, et cetera. So, thank you. FUTURE MEETING TOPICS. Strader: Are there any future meeting topics? Cavener: Council Vice-President Strader? Strader: Yes. Cavener: I promised folks I had a goal not to talk very much tonight. So, I apologize. Just real quick before we adjourn. I just want to take one more moment of privilege and commend our Vice-President for doing an exceptional job as being traffic cop in tonight's meeting. This was thrust upon you and you have led admirably and just Meridian City Council Work Session May 14,2024 Page 34 of 34 appreciate your great work. We are all very lucky to have you steering the ship for us tonight. Strader: Oh, that's so nice. Thank you. All right. To keep this on the rails and finish strong, okay, is there -- I will entertain a motion to adjourn. Overton: Madam Vice-President? Strader: Councilman Overton. Overton: Motion that we adjourn. Strader: Fantastic. We have a motion to adjourn. All those in favor signify by saying aye. We are adjourned. Have a great evening. MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 7:54 P.M. (AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) 5 / 28 / 2024 COUNCIL VICE-PRESIDENT LIZ STRADER DATE APPROVED ATTEST: CHRIS JOHNSON - CITY CLERK