HomeMy WebLinkAbout2024-05-16
PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING City Council Chambers, 33 East Broadway Avenue Meridian, Idaho Thursday, May 16, 2024 at 6:00 PM
MINUTES PRESENT ABSENT
\ Commissioner Brian Garrett Commissioner Enrique Rivera Commissioner Maria Lorcher Commissioner Jared Smith Commissioner Patrick Grace Commissioner Matthew Sandoval Chairperson Andrew Seal
ADOPTION OF AGENDA Adopted
CONSENT AGENDA [Action Item] Approved
Motion to approve made by Commissioner Grace, Seconded by Commissioner Lorcher.
Voting Yea: Commissioner Garrett, Commissioner Lorcher, Commissioner Grace,
Commissioner Sandoval, Chairperson Seal
1. Approve Minutes of the May 2, 2024 Meeting of the Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting 2. Approve Summary Minutes of the May 7, 2024 Joint Meeting of the Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting with Meridian City Council 3. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Idaho Pup and Ales (H-2024-0006) by Aviva Childress, Studio H Architects, located at 70 S Outpost Ln.
ITEMS MOVED FROM THE CONSENT AGENDA [Action Item]
ACTION ITEMS
4. Public Hearing continued from April 4, 2024 for Blayden Subdivision (H-2023-0043) by Bailey Engineering, located at the South side of W. Chinden Blvd. and west side of N. Black Cat Rd. Continued to June 20th, 2024
Applicant Requests Continuance A. Request: Annexation of 27.36 acres of land with R-15 (4.32 acres), R-40 (16.71 acres) and C-G (6.33 acres) zoning districts.
B. Request: Conditional Use Permit for a multi-family development consisting of 312 dwelling units on 14.92 acres of land in the R-40 zoning district. C. Request: Preliminary Plat consisting of 26 building lots and 11 common lots on 24.98 acres of land in the R-15, R-40 and C-G zoning districts.
Motion made to continue to June 20, 2024 by Commissioner Grace, Seconded by Commissioner
Lorcher.
Voting Yea: Commissioner Garrett, Commissioner Lorcher, Commissioner Grace,
Commissioner Sandoval, Chairperson Seal
DEPARTMENT REPORTS 5. Presentation and Discussion Regarding Commission Best Practices
ADJOURNMENT 7:36 PM
Meridian Planning and Zoning Meeting May 16, 2024.
Meeting of the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission of May 16, 2024, was called
to order at 6:00 p.m. by Chairman Andrew Seal.
Members Present: Commissioner Andrew Seal, Commissioner Maria Lorcher,
Commissioner Patrick Grace, Commissioner Brian Garrett and Commissioner Matthew
Sandoval.
Members Absent: Commissioner Enrique Rivera and Commissioner Jared Smith.
Others Present: Tina Lomeli, Caleb Hood, Bill Parsons and Dean Willis.
ROLL-CALL ATTENDANCE
_X Brian Garrett X Maria Lorcher
X Matthew Sandoval X Patrick Grace
Enrique Rivera Jared Smith
X Andrew Seal - Chairman
Seal: Welcome to Planning and Zoning Commission meeting for May 16, 2024. At this
time I would like to call the meeting to order. Commissioners who are present for this
meeting -- this evening's meeting are at City Hall. We also have staff from the city
attorney and clerk's offices, as well as City Planning Department. If you are joining us
on Zoom this evening we can see that you are here. I'm going to skip over some of this,
unless we have -- there are no attendees, so I can skip over that part. Tonight will we
not be taking any public testimony, because the only application we have will be
continued. Just as -- in case you are here to testify for that. Okay. And with that we
will just go ahead and begin with roll call. Madam Clerk.
ADOPTION OF AGENDA
Seal: All right. First item on the agenda is the adoption of the agenda. File No. H-
2023-0043 for Blayden -- Blayden Subdivision will be open for the sole purpose of
continuing to a regularly scheduled meeting. It will be open for that purpose alone. So,
if there is anybody here tonight to testify for that application we will not be taking public
testimony. Can I get a motion to adopt the agenda as presented?
Garrett: So moved.
Lorcher: Second.
Seal: It's been moved and seconded to adopt the agenda. All in favor please say aye.
Opposed nay? Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
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CONSENT AGENDA [Action Item]
1. Approve Minutes of the May 2, 2024 Meeting of the Planning and
Zoning Commission Meeting
2. Approve Summary Minutes of the May 7, 2024 Joint Meeting of the
Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting with Meridian City
Council
3. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Idaho Pup and Ales (H-
2024-0006) by Aviva Childress, Studio H Architects, located at 70 S
Outpost Ln.
Seal: Next item on the agenda is the Consent Agenda and we have three items on the
Consent Agenda. First is to approve the minutes of the May 2nd, 2024, meeting of the
Planning and Zoning Commission. Second is to approve the summary minutes of the
May 7th, 2024, joint meeting of the Planning and Zoning Commission with Meridian City
Council. Third is the -- third is for the -- forgetting that wording on this.
Starman: Mr. Chairman, the findings --
Seal: Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law. That's it. Findings of Fact and
Conclusions of Law for Idaho Pup and Ales, File No. H-2024-0006. Thank you. Can I
get a motion to accept the Consent Agenda as presented?
Grace: So moved.
Lorcher: Second.
Seal: Moved and seconded to -- moved and seconded to adopt the Consent Agenda.
All in favor, please, say aye. Opposed nay? Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
ITEMS MOVED FROM THE CONSENT AGENDA [Action Item]
ACTION ITEMS
4. Public Hearing continued from April 4, 2024 for Blayden Subdivision
(H-2023-0043) by Bailey Engineering, located at the South side of W.
Chinden Blvd. and west side of N. Black Cat Rd.
A. Request: Annexation of 27.36 acres of land with R-15 (4.32 acres),
R-40 (16.71 acres) and C-G (6.33 acres) zoning districts.
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B. Request: Conditional Use Permit for a multi-family development
consisting of 312 dwelling units on 14.92 acres of land in the R-40
zoning district.
C. Request: Preliminary Plat consisting of 26 building lots and 11
common lots on 24.98 acres of land in the R-15, R-40 and C-G
zoning districts.
Seal: All right. I will go ahead and kind of skip through the public hearing process,
since we don't really have a public hearing tonight, and at this time I would like to
continue the public hearing for Item No. H-2023-0043, for Blayden Subdivision for a
continuance to June 20th, 2024.
Grace: Do you need a motion on that, Mr. Chair?
Seal: Yes.
Grace; So moved.
Lorcher: Second.
Seal: It's been moved and seconded to continue File No. H-2023-0043 for Blayden
Subdivision to June 20th, 2024. All in favor, please, say aye. Opposed nay? The item
is continued.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
DEPARTMENT REPORTS
5. Presentation and Discussion Regarding Commission Best Practices
Seal: And with that we will go on to Item No. 6, which is a presentation and discussion
regarding commission best practices and staff can take it away.
Hood: Thank you, Mr. Chair. That will be me I believe this evening, although it's more
of a discussion than a presentation. So, Mr. Starman I think at least knows some of the
presentation I'm going to speak on. Mr. Parsons is here as well. So, feel free to
interrupt and hit us up if you have any questions or want to talk about anything that's not
on the presentation that I have prepared for you tonight. Maybe before I jump into that
-- you just approve the minutes for May 7th. I want to thank you for attending your time,
providing the feedback on the staff report. We are -- we are fine tuning that considering
those, seeing what we can do. Some things we can't. But, again, just appreciate your
time here meeting with Council last week and your time this evening. So, here is our
agenda for this evening. You know, I recognize I'm standing between you and dinner
and family and things, but I can stay as long as you like. I don't -- I didn't time this. I
don't know how long it would take if you say nothing. We are probably 15 minutes, but,
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again, I anticipate more of a conversation, so -- so, again, please do feel free to
interrupt if there is anything that doesn't make sense, you want to dig deeper or
whatever the case may be. But here is what -- what I will be speaking on, facilitating the
discussion on this evening. So, the first one -- and I will say you have seen some of the
slides in your orientation packet that we typically hand out to new commissioners -- here
in a little bit towards the end -- it's actually at the end of that packet as well and often
those slides get brushed to the side, because we are running late on time and whatnot.
But I think this one is -- is just a good refresher and I actually have a few slides on this.
But it really talks about how the Comprehensive Plan is the policy document that
enables the zoning code. So, the implementation of zoning and the UDC really is
foundationally in the Comprehensive Plan and some of those aspirational policies that
are contained within the Comprehensive Plan. So, this is something where the comp
plan is powerful, but it's really visionary and aspirational; right? It's not a lot of words --
and we had this conversation, too, when we talked about some of the mixed use stuff,
the shalls and the shoulds and the mays and we want you to, but we can't require you to
type of statements. Again, a little broader, more citywide aspirations and parcel specific
conditions or regulations that would apply. But, again, it sets the direction, as the slide
says. It is -- it is very important -- the comp plan is very important and, again, really
defends and tees up, if you will, a lot of the zoning ordinances and the laws that we
have there. But, again, at the end of the day the UDC carries the day and is the thing
that we hang our hat on most of the time to say you have to do this. This doesn't
comply with code and you have some more discretion when it comes to interpretation
and application of the Comprehensive Plan. I don't necessarily expect you to read this.
This is directly out of the Comprehensive Plan. But I did want to take this just a step
further and talk, then, within the Comprehensive Plan we have the future land use map
designations; right? And there is a lot of confusion on -- and I'm not trying to talk down
to anybody this evening. I think a lot of you -- all of you probably largely have a great
grasp on this, but the future land use map designations do not directly correspond to
zoning districts of the UDC. It's not a one for one. Low density on the comp plan does
not mean R-2 or R-4. It can mean R-2. It can mean R-4. It does not mean R-2 or R --
so, there is not a direct correlation there; right? So, again, same concept, comp plan is
higher level, visionary kind of squishy and, then, the zoning ordinance, once you get a
zoning district and the designation, R-4 means this is the size of your lots, these are
your setbacks, it is very standard defining. So, that's really what this slide says,
especially that last paragraph. The comp plan future land use map helps push you in a
general direction and, then, when -- when one of those zoning districts gets chosen,
then, again, that -- that is what really dictates how that property gets developed. Sorry
I'm driving that point home, but -- but it is -- again it's -- they work in concert, but they
are not -- they are not the same. And, then, even just to take that one more step
further, again, the UDC -- or our zoning codes, conditional use permits, subdivision
ordinance is the -- the enabling code of the city of the UDC to, again, implement those
standards. So, this slide, again, is -- is familiar in that handout. So, at annexation and
rezoning is really where you get to have a lot of discretion. You get to make the call.
That's why you have been appointed by Mayor and Council. You have a good
understanding of our community direction and what our community needs, especially
when it comes to bringing property into the city from the county or rezoning it from an
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existing zone and up zoning something or -- or downzoning something. That last finding
under the annexation and rezoning is, again, pretty broad. Is this in the best interest of
the community. You get to decide that. What's best. Good. So, there is a lot of
subjectivity in that. Once you move all the way down, then, to -- and a lot of times even
in the site plans you were kind of cut out of that and this is really administrative by city
staff. So, it really is us just verifying that everything does meet code compliance and we
don't get a whole lot of discretion on, yeah, but I really would rather you do this tone of
brown on your building doors or, you know, that's -- we really don't have any control
over that. So, kind of further down that discretionary process you move, you know, the
city as a whole loses discretion, so -- and, then, in between, obviously, conditional use
permits you have a little bit more. That's sort of -- in the name; right? Anything you
need to include to mitigate any negative impacts you can put -- put those conditions on
-- on a project or a property to make sure that -- that they are mitigating their impact to
the surrounding neighborhood. Subdivisions even a little less. Again we cover a lot of
that in our subdivision ordinance, although, again, you know, things like amenity
packages, you know, if you really think something needs a swimming pool you do have
some discretion there, because they are going to lose points and immediate, but it's --
but especially if they are coming in for the zone they need to do that subdivision and
they are like, I don't know, if you are just like -- you know, Walmart swing set and a
barbecue as your amenity package for 400 homes, even though they may claim the
points you still have a little discretion in that. But a lot of-- a lot of subdivisions are -- it's
pretty standardized and if your lots are 5,000 square feet and you have a two car
garage, off you go. So, again, I recognize you know some of that stuff, but I just wanted
to reinforce that a little bit. So, I'm going to move to the next topic. Is there anything
kind of on that with the comp plan and -- and UDC zoning?
Grace: Yes. Mr. Chairman?
Seal: Go ahead.
Grace: Often we -- if we have a room full of people it gets said by somebody, either the
applicant or Commissioner, that -- something along the lines of, well, this has been on
the books for many years. So, I understand that you are upset that this is occurring,
but, you know, it's been planned, so to speak, for many years. Which -- which part or
maybe it's all of these parts -- I'm trying to apply what you have laid out to practical
application. Is it -- what -- what part of this process makes that statement true? Is it the
-- is it the comp plan which set the aspirational goals? Is it the zoning when it's zoned
that way? Or when it's a conditional use permit? Or is it a combination of all those
things?
Hood: So, I will -- I will give you an answer, although I'm not quite sure that it directly
addresses your question. So, if we need to double back and I can try again. But it's an
iterative process. I will start maybe in 2005. That is when we combined our -- what we
commonly know and lovingly refer to as a Unified Development Code. So, we took Title
11 and Title 12 of City Code and made them one and we take our subdivision ordinance
and we put all of our zoning codes into one place and unified them. We did have a
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comp plan that was already on the books that helped us do that and, then, in 2008 we
did an update to our Comprehensive Plan. So, again, it's iterative and both documents
change over time. So, I don't -- the statements you say that -- you know, like that
comes up at a lot of hearings that this has been on the books for many years, I'm not
quite sure if you are referring to a specific property that was maybe annexed and zoned
in 1990 let's say -- you know, there are some entitlements that certainly have been out
there for a long time. I will use Paramount as an example. That one -- that's one that
just jumps to mind. It was early 2000s -- 2002, 2001, somewhere in there where they
got basically that whole square mile entitled; right? But the multi-family and the Dairy
Queen and some of the things that are right around the corner of McMillan and Meridian
didn't develop until last five years. So, they were entitled, though, to do those things
way back, almost 20 years ago. So, their phasing plan helped. Again, the city's comp
plan and -- and Unified Development Code -- in fact, Bill's got one coming to you -- I
think next month. June, I believe, is the target date. We are always tweaking it; right?
Our -- our society and our community is not stagnant and so we have -- things will also
evolve, some things devolve, but we change and we have to stay current with the times
when you address things and some of the loopholes maybe that have been exposed or
just best practices. So, 2005 was the -- the last major change, if you will, to the UDC,
although open space and amenities we had a steering committee here two years ago,
three years -- something like that. That's fairly new. This -- you know, again the points,
that's -- that's kind of a newer concept at least for Meridian and our current -- and our
Comprehensive Plan was adopted December of 2019. So, it's -- you know, it's fairly
new for the life of a comp plan. We don't modify that all that often. But, again, Brian
McClure was here a couple of months ago -- three months ago changing some of the --
the mixed use standard; right? So, again, your question I don't know that I totally
answered it, but hopefully that helps you understand that none of this is set in stone and
we check in with the community and we say, look, we can change the comp plan, we
change the UDC, we change the UDC, we change the comp plan. It generally should,
again, point you towards a similar vision in the standards and where we are trying to
head as a community. But if you want to give me a little more specific example of when
you remember someone saying, well, this has been on the books -- it really is -- it
matters to --
Starman: I'm not sure I will give a specific example. I might be able to come up with
one, but I was going to tag on -- I think that was a great description. But what came to
my mind -- I think the first answer it probably depends on the context and it probably is
all of the above when someone -- someone testifies and makes a comment like that
they could be referring to the Comprehensive Plan, they could be referring to a previous
decision. When I hear that type of comment, though, if I'm wearing my legal hat tonight
-- when I hear that type of a comment I'm typically thinking that this property has some
level of entitlement or a legal entitlement to do something. They are not coming in for
an annexation for the first time or for the first -- the initial zoning in the city. They have
already been through that process. They have been annexed. They probably had their
initial zoning or they would as part of the annexation and there -- maybe likely would be
a development agreement that says they are -- you know, at least in concept form what
they are able to develop on that piece of property. So, oftentimes when I hear that type
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of comment what I'm thinking about is that this property owner has already gone
through some of the processes and they have entitlements in place -- legal rights in
place and they are allowed to develop within those confines, within those parameters. If
we don't allow that, then, that's the makings for a potential claim for a takings argument;
right? You gave us -- you gave me something, I had the entitlement to do something,
now you want to change your mind and take it away. That sounds like a taking. So,
that's how I can think about it from a legal perspective.
Seal: I was going to say, an example that I have in my mind is the northeast corner
Black Cat and McMillan. It -- it had been around, it had been entitled for quite a long
time and we looked at it and I think it was either the hearing after within a month of
basically recommendation of denial for the southeast corner of that intersection, so it
was -- it was a really tough one to look at, because, basically, all of us were thinking
denial, but at the same time they were already entitled to do what was on the books
there. They were just enacting it at that point in time and it was based on the
information when -- when it went through for the development agreement and the
annexation. So, that one to me sticks out as far as like the scenario that you are talking
about.
Starman: That's an excellent example. For those that might recall those two projects,
actually, that were very close to one another within a two year time frame, that's a great
example where that smaller -- I think it was phase seven of a project that they already
had their entitlements in place versus the larger project in the same product -- same
area -- I think it was annexation, I believe, and so we had a lot more discretion as Caleb
described. Which is a good segue to two other quick thoughts on annexation if I can
add. So, what -- again, just kind of this from a legal perspective, kind of given that
angle, so I would just echo what Caleb said that really the city has the most discretion at
the time when someone applies for annexation. That's for a couple of reasons. One is
we are looking at from a very broad perspective, including whether it's in the city's best
interest. Also from a legal perspective most decisions that you make and the City
Council make are subject to a petition for review to the District Court. So, things like
conditional use permits, zoning decisions, anything that falls under the local Land Use
Planning Act, which is Idaho law that governs what we all do when we meet. One
exception to that is annexations. That's covered by a completely different title of Idaho
Code and it's not subject to petition for review to the District Court. So, it has a different
review and, really, the city has a lot of discretion in terms of whether to approve or not
and courts readily will question that decision about expansion of territory or city limits.
I'm not saying that never happens. There are -- there is a way to get there sort of
through the backdoor and I won't go into the nuances, but is it just a broad statement.
Very difficult to convince a court to overturn an annexation decision versus anything
else that you deal with. Conditional use permits. Zoning decisions. You know, plats,
things of that nature, those are all subject to petition to -- for review by the court.
Grace: A thought on it. And that's really helpful, Kurt. I think it helps to know that when
the city in some fashion has obligated itself in terms of the use of that land there is
obviously less discretion. But I guess where I was looking at it is lots of people might do
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some -- they think they do some research or do some research before they move here
and they often come up and say, well, I looked and I talked to the city before I built my
house and, you know, this wasn't planned or this wasn't -- and sometimes that's true
and sometimes it's not, but I just was sort of wondering where -- where to plug in the --
the sort of statement -- well, that's not actually true. It has been this -- we have
obligated ourselves to the legal use of that land.
Hood: So, if I can -- I guess maybe just a little bit of advice that way. And I'm not calling
anyone that's ever testified a liar, but you can ask; right? We don't require them just
swear to tell the truth and the whole truth and all that. So, I guess I would say when you
hear those types of statements you can fact check with us and -- and maybe ask them a
clarifying question. What do you mean by all in the bush? So, what -- we can help you
with some statements like that if, in fact, you are wondering about what level of
entitlement maybe exists with the property, because I will tie this back in here. The
comp plan map designations can and do change. Not all of them. But we have
changed them. So, it could be true that when they bought their house it was low density
and now it's medium or high even. That could be a fair statement. I -- so -- but I think
it's a good question to follow up and maybe don't just take everything you hear as fact.
We can help dig a little deeper and understand what that really means and, then, a
couple more just in that same vein. So something that -- let's just say was entitled 20
years ago. Paramount was the exception, because that was a huge project and
multiple phases -- 25 phases or something like that. I mean it was crazy. You don't get
that very often. So, if something was entitled -- we do have a couple. There are
actually some still -- Eagle-Overland have some really old entitlements out of Overland
Road. But a lot of times they expire; right? So if there is a subdivision. It expires. If
you don't record a plat in successive phases project's dead. So, it's very rarely you
have something that's that old that is still valid and also say an entitlement -- someone
says, well, I have got my zoning, I'm entitled to do this. There may be some truth to
that. Typically over the last 25 years or so anyways pretty regularly we put
development agreements on properties. They are specific enough where it doesn't just
allow anything and a lot of times it will address what you have to do to actually get real
entitlement if you will -- we will annex it in and we will say, yeah, there is some level of
entitlement, but sometimes they can take that claim and say, well, you can't tell me no.
I'm entitled to that. I have got the zoning and it says this. Well, there may be a
provision that says, yeah, but -- right? It -- usually when we did that, because it was so
conceptual, we weren't sure -- they weren't sure what they wanted to do with the
property, so we didn't give them just a blank check. Here, go and do anything in C-G
you want. You are on your way. That was pretty rare. So, we can -- you know, you
hear those types of statements -- and we tried to bring that to your attention, too. There
is -- there is another one that recently came through and I won't use specific examples
-- that did have an R-8 zoning. It was a low density; right? There is some level of, yep,
their underlying zone allowed them to do this density. The neighbors didn't like it, but
there is some level of entitlement. But, again, I would just say fact check, verify with us,
whatever that looks like or even ask clarifying questions. Maybe we can fish that out of
them, but --
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Seal: One thing I would -- do you watch the Council Meetings?
Grace: Occasionally.
Seal: I have watched them more and more and our Council folks especially --
Hood: Bill Nary?
Seal: What's that?
Hood: Bill Nary?
Seal: No. Mr. Cavener and Strader. They -- they ask a lot of counter questions to --
especially just public testimony, people that are coming up and giving testimony and
they are -- and I have to say especially Commissioner Cavener, he will -- he will ask the
question that everybody's wondering, you know, like -- especially the kind of the -- you
know, the not-in-my-backyard crowd that he will ask those questions. Would you rather
this than this. What would you rather see here? You know, what would -- what --
what's your idea of -- just trying to pull out, you know, instead of just hearing the
negative element to it, it's like tell us what you want. Tell us what you -- tell us what's,
you know, great for you and that -- a lot of times that will set -- set people back a little
bit, like I didn't really think about that. I just don't want this, because generally the -- I
mean all those -- all those public testimonies -- or a lot of them tend to start out with I'm
not against development, but -- I'm not against multi-family, but -- I'm not against --
whatever. But -- so, you know, the clarifying questions that come out of that and, like I
said, Commissioner Cavener especially -- he is really good at that. He comes well
armed.
Hood: I will just say -- and this isn't to pat myself on the back. But I have some slides
here to talk about the art of asking questions and prodding and things and, then, also
findings, too. So, we will kind of bring some of these common threads of this part of the
discussion back around here in a few more slides, so -- I do want to transition, though --
and, again, it's related, but to private property rights. Kurt mentioned LUPA. I think he
called it the Land Use Planning Act, but the Local Land Use Planning Act of Idaho does
require that comp plans address private property rights. This one is, again, like a lot of
things you do, tricky; right? There is different angles and lenses you can look at --
things through to say if something conforms or not. The private property rights balance;
right? Or I like this and, you know, I'm going to watch a little video, but whose property
and whose right? I mean there is two sides to that; right? I mean -- so, you know that,
but it is just -- it's an interesting -- depending on what shoes you are wearing or, you
know, what you are looking at, but there is -- there is property rights on all sides. So,
we are back to some of that quasi-judicial and you get to play judge a little bit in that and
say, okay, we are not harming anybody. This is a right and we are protecting things.
But, again, subjective words like sensible and value and good -- like you get to decide
what those things are and mean in particular cases and that all comes back to our
police powers and why I have a job and why you are there is we have the general
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health, safety and welfare of our community in everything we do should kind of be right
there, like is this in the best interest of our community. So, I do have a quick video I
would like to show you, so I'm going to try that real quick. If -- let's see if we can do this
here -- and I have a link to where I got this, too. There is actually a series. I don't know
-- some of you were on the commission at the time, but about a year -- maybe a little
more ago I mentioned that the Idaho Chapter of the American Planning Association was
putting together kind of a suite of videos. They have the first seven done and available,
so I will have a link to that later. You can go watch the other six. I actually asked them
for more. You get seven just for going to the website, they like if you want the rest of
them you have to log in and pay us a fee and stuff, so -- but I have access to some
more than what you could access on the website. But this one I thought was a pretty
good one. They are all decent and they are only all just a few minutes long, so -- so, I
thought this was a good one, so -- see if we have any sound.
(Video played.)
Hood: So, hopefully, you found some value in watching that short video, reinforcing
some of the things we have already talked about tonight. There are some -- again
some more resources on -- on private property rights. I'm going to transition to the next
topic, unless there is anything there we -- Kurt mentioned takings and that was the last
part of that video, if you want to spend a little bit more time on that or private property
rights, if there is any comments or anything like that. I'm going to jump back into my
presentation though. Okay. Defining residential density. So, that's -- the first bullet
there is number of units per acre. So, we are done. I guess we can move on to the
next slide. No. Really, there is more to it than that, so -- and I really -- there is actually
two kinds of topics that I want to talk about in one. So, one of them is the -- the
transition that comes up a lot; right? An appropriate transition. So, that's kind of also in
defining density. I already mentioned some of this in -- so, my opening remarks with
comp plan, zoning and density and future land use map designation that I will touch on
that a little bit more, too. First, though, I want to start by saying the comp plan --
anytime you hear us refer to density in the Comprehensive Plan it's always using gross.
So, we are considering just the overall acreage, doesn't take out anything for roadways
or right of ways or waterways or really undevelopable land if you will. So, we are talking
the gross density. The -- the UDC, though, does define both net and gross. It doesn't
define density as much -- it defines it, but it doesn't use it in some of its calculations in
the UDC. So, again, as an example R-4 does not mean four dwelling units per acre.
It's -- it's just R-4 is residential and it's medium low density residential, but it does not
equate to a maximum of four or a minimum of four dwelling units per acre. It's just an --
it's just a number. Same with the two, the four, the eight, the 15. They are numbers.
Sometimes there is some correlation, but, again, we took that out --jeez, that's probably
been five years where we took with -- more than that even where we took the density
calculation out. If you meet the minimum lot sizes and the open space and the other
code requirements of doing a subdivision, the density just essentially works itself out,
but it is possible that if you had a cul-de-sac stubbed to your property and you just lined
out lots along it you could get more than four dwelling units per acre in an R-4. It
doesn't happen very often. Typically it's less than that, so -- but it is -- it is confusing to
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people; right? It is -- all the density shows is that this is, you know, 4.4 and this is an R-
4. How can that be? The zoning doesn't -- doesn't necessarily equate. Another -- I just
want to read to you maybe -- and this -- this thought goes with what we have already
talked about before with the comp plan being the guide, the visionary document kind of
citywide. I want to read you a few comprehensive policies that talk about density. So,
the first one is locate higher density -- I don't know what that means, but locate higher
density housing near corridors with existing or planned transit in downtown and up in
proximity to employment centers. I'm kind of joking, but the higher part -- again there is
discretion in that. Two is higher than one, three is higher than two. Higher I don't know.
And that doesn't mean R-15 or R-40 necessarily, it could just be more. Higher. Right?
So, here is the -- here is the next one I want to read you. Consider incentives, such as
density bonuses, reduced open space requirements and reduced fees for in-fill
development in key areas near existing services. Key areas? Right? Key areas could
be in or near my house or your house or downtown and we do define some of these
things. But, again, it's not an exact. You can interpret it -- there is a little bit of wiggle
room in here. There is another one. Consider population slash housing density and
accessibility when acquiring future land use for Parks and Recreation. That's more of
an internal thing for the city. You probably won't run into that a lot of times dealing with
development. Okay? Here is the next one. Require all new development to create a
site design compatible with surrounding uses and, then, there is a list. Through buffer,
screening, transitional densities and other best site design practices. Encourage, as
appropriate, the continued use of land for farming in areas of city impact boundaries to
effectively transition from rural uses to urban. So, some of my point there is it's -- it is --
it's leading you down a path, but doesn't tell you exactly how to get there; right? I mean
you have some -- some ways to interpret some of those directions, the vision,
statements we want to go as a city, but it's not going to say you apply that right on that
property right there. That's for that -- that project. And we will help you in staff reports,
too. We will cite those. We will interpret that. We will apply it as we deem appropriate.
But you can, again, draw your own conclusions on a lot of that, so -- and we also do
encourage with the Comprehensive Plan a mix of housing types within all
neighborhoods. So, monotonous Meridian is not the goal of the Comprehensive Plan.
It says encourage a mix of housing types in all neighborhoods, so -- but, again, there is
discretion even in that. A mix? What does that even mean? Typically we apply that,
you know, single family detached. You could say lot size variation. Doesn't mean you
have to have thousand square foot homes and 5,000 square foot lots. There is, again,
some interpretation in that. So, that comp plan has aspirational statements that help
enable the zoning code, but a lot of the subjectivity and hard to legislate
appropriateness of density. And, again, sometimes even the policies seem to conflict a
bit in there, depending on the case, but -- for example, you know, we have a want and a
need for affordable housing, too. So, how does that play in with -- with some of the
protection of private property rights? Sometimes people can make those types of
claims, so -- and this is just a little bit more kind of in our profession -- it was in the video
a little bit as well. Zoning has historically -- so, the way our Unified Development Code
is classified -- it's not form based, what we -- what we use is typically referred to as
Euclidean zoning. So, we do use zoning to basically designate areas where you are
again using that -- the film as an example. You know, industrial areas aren't going to
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put next to housing or we aren't putting the adult entertainment next to the school.
That's -- that's Euclidean zoning. This is your commercial district. This is your
residential district. A lot of times we will use office as a way to transition. So, we have
buffer requirements, right, in code, you know, a 20, 25 foot land use buffer sometimes.
Office is a very good transitional use, because most of those users are done at 5:00 or
6:00 o'clock when most people are coming home. So, if you have some commercial or
industrial we will sometimes try to feather an L-O around them and, then, the residential,
you know, buffers, those two uses typically up. So, that's -- that's in a very high level
nutshell explaining Euclidean zoning is the separation of land uses. Society, though, is
going more and more to mixed use; right? So, then, you get nuances in there. Okay.
Well, is it this use? How much of a nuisance is that use potentially with the people that
are living 200 feet away? And that's why a lot of communities are going to different
types of zoning codes and ordinances. We are not there yet. And maybe we will never
get there. I don't know. But my point was some of that is -- we try with some of the --
we do standardize some of that saying if you have C-G next to R-8 you have to put it in
a 25 foot buffer period. That's part of the code. That's -- you do that. But there are
some things, again, within that word there is discretion and you can require more. If
they want to annex and a 25 foot buffer is not enough, you can -- or you can limit height.
Height was another example in the UDC. The base code, you know, caps all -- all of
our zoning districts to a certain height, whether it be 35 or 65 or 75 feet in some
commercial industrial districts. But, again, my point there is -- and I want to have a little
bit of a conversation, because this is something that I have heard from Council, too, to
some degree, is this needs to put transitions in -- potentially in the UDC and it's
something I'm not sure how to -- how to do. I will use examples, too, of odd-shaped lots
or pie-shape lots. You know -- and one to one isn't a bad, you know, idea -- or two to
one even and say, hey, generally we like -- but -- so generally part; right? You can get
a lot thrown in east-west and they have north-south lots and it's like, all right, this lot is
500 feet long, you know, like only one to one or even two to one, that makes it tough to
lay a project out on the other side of that -- that lot line. So, again, standardizing that
and saying thou shalt -- in no case shall you have, you know, three backyards to one --
for me it is very difficult to legislate, because I can -- I love to play devil's advocate. I
can come up with an example of where that doesn't make sense. But I think you can --
you can generally have an agreed practice to say, listen, that's -- that's not an
appropriate transition. That's not the intent of that and what -- you typically have north-
south lots and they are lining up north-south lots two to one, I think is a -- is fair. But,
again, that's -- that's part of this process -- the public hearing process. But I want to
hear your thoughts on some of that. And, again, in the comp plan we say, you know,
appropriate transitions. We don't tell you what that is. Someone's got a two story home
is a three story next to it appropriate? If they have a single level? Two? And you have
had those discussions, too. Like that transition in height, what's appropriate? Well, you
got to kind of hear from folks and see what they deem appropriate and, then, you get to
decide. So, I know -- there is some comments and that's what I'm asking for.
Lorcher: Mr. Chairman?
Seal: Go right ahead.
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Lorcher: I think it's challenging also with some of the developers that go out and buy
this land and, then, they kind of figure out what they are going to do with it or what they
can get away with it later, you know, and the example I'm going to use -- and, Andy, you
weren't here for this one, but Patrick and I were -- was there was a storage facility on
Eagle Road across the street from a development that has three stories, but the zoning
for the west side of the street was really only two stories and the guy was trying to
negotiate with us, like, okay, well give me 64 feet, instead of 35. You know, we will
meet in the middle and we are like we are not the deciding factor here and so, you
know, some of it needs to kind of go back on the developer and say if you are going to
look for a piece of in-fill land and you want to develop it, shouldn't you have kind of an
idea of what you are going to do with it before you come and, then, when Planning and
Zoning -- or city planners say, yeah, this doesn't fit into the thing, they need to kind of
reconsider and so I feel sometimes the burden is put on us, like we are not being
reasonable enough, even though they bought this weird shaped pie or whatever the
case might be and they are -- they are trying to make it work, which totally makes
sense, but they are not following any of the rules that the zoning even allows and that
puts a -- I think a burden on us, because, then, we are being unreasonable. So, that's --
that's a little bit trend for that one. And as far as transitions are concerned, I don't know
if it is within policy or, like you said, it's just more of a suggestion. If I'm in a five acre
parcel, you know, obviously, high density is not -- I don't want that in my back door and
so the trend that we are doing -- that we are -- we are going from five acres to maybe
three acres or maybe to one acre or high density -- or low density to medium and, then,
to high seems just to make more sense, because it just seems kind of crazy to have a
five acre parcel and, then, next door to it you have got apartment buildings. So, I
appreciate that as a -- as a citizen of this community to be able to kind of see those
transition.
Hood: And I will just say -- and that's just kind of the last bullet there. I do appreciate
that and I don't -- I don't disagree with that. I think what I would ask, though, is you --
you -- again, you got to consider multiple things simultaneously; right? So, that five acre
parcel, if we are annexing now is not going to be a five acre parcel for very much longer.
I respect that someone wants to stay there and have that quality of life they have
enjoyed as a five acre parcel, but that's going to redevelop at some point; right? So,
you need to be respectful of them today and understand that, so I'm not saying just slam
all the apartments next to that, but you also need to figure out, then, okay, what
happens when that five acres come in and they say, but I'm high density and, you know,
now the transition slipper is on the other foot; right? And it's like, well, we didn't set
ourselves up for success as a city, because we allowed lesser on that property and now
the transition is taking longer to get there, if that makes sense. I know it's kind of the
same side of the coin -- a different side of the coin. You know, if it's one to one we will
never transition to anything; right? It's just going to be the same thing. So, I think just --
that's my request a little bit, is -- is be respectful certainly of that property owner, the five
acre property saying this is my backyard and you need to respect my cows and what I
do there or whatever the case may be. Absolutely. Also need to be forward thinking,
though, and saying, okay, I respect that, but here is what we need to do and maybe
there is something you can condition that says this is what with the phasing plan next
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door says. But, hey, this is your last phase and you don't develop this first or -- or
whatever those mitigating things are that you can do to make that transition easier for
the community over time. So, good points, but that's -- that is a great example of, you
know, you are juggling all kinds of different competing interests simultaneously. I don't
know if we should, because I know Council had it on their agenda Tuesday. The Eagle
Road storage unit project.
Lorcher: Did they pass it?
Hood: That's what I can't remember if they --
Starman: I'm going to advise that you not --
Hood: Yeah.
Starman: -- delve into that because the Council did consider and make a decision that
they have not yet adopted their findings and final order. So, I think you ought not to dig
deeper into it.
Hood: So, I will use -- you know, just that to start a similar conversation. Again, there is
things to consider. You got a major arterial on a roadway and you have got pretty -- I
will just say, you know, can have pretty dense, intense land uses even on the other side
of that, but maybe it's not 65 feet tall. So, I think the things that staff looks at is the
appropriateness. But, again, we may define that differently than you do, differently than
Council does. So, we all kind of look at things maybe a little bit differently. Someone
focuses more on the principal arterial side of the world and says, hey, there is 50,000
cars a day here. Why can't I have three stories and someone says -- but I'm trying to
raise my kids 50 feet away and so what's the -- you know. So, it's not an easy job and
you don't get paid anything, so -- it's good conversation and if there is any more on the
transition, any more thoughts, for this --
Grace: I would totally agree with you, Caleb, that it seems like it's a little bit more of an
art than a science and so to try to codify that would be difficult. To the extent, though,
that there is some stuff standards, some criteria that we might look at. I don't know if
you can create ranges of things to look at and consider to bring it -- to pull it maybe from
the art side a little bit more to the science side. I don't know. I'm really just talking off
the top my head.
Hood: If I can just -- and I thought a little bit maybe if I can extract that out a little bit
more -- and this is -- it's not the same, but I will use it, because the comp plan is more of
the art and the UDC is more of the science and what I think we can do is put some more
things on the art side, i.e., the comp plan side of that world that talks about appropriate
transitions, but doesn't standardize them; right? It gives a little more to the five acre
parcel or whatever, right, the existing thing that's there, but it's not going to say thou
shalt do two to one or three to one or no more than this or whatever. But it can still
have words that say you need to seriously consider appropriate transitions. Again --
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and I'm not -- off the top of my head that doesn't sound eloquent. We wouldn't put that
in the comp plan. But -- but something similar in the Comprehensive Plan that is more
policy and not so standard. So, a little -- again a little more art than -- than the science
tried and true. But -- but it helps. It's -- it still helps to cite those things, citing comp plan
policies when you are making your decision -- and, again I got some things on that kind
of near the end -- I think is very helpful.
Lorcher: Mr. Chair?
Seal: I'm going to jump in real quick.
Lorcher: Okay.
Seal: Some of the -- I will just call it some of the ambiguity that's in there is sometimes
frustrating, especially when we have lawyers presenting to us -- nothing against
lawyers, but it is difficult sometimes, because they -- they have an absolute point that's
based in the UDC where we are trying to more apply the comp plan, you know, vision to
what we are seeing here. So, that -- to me is when things get a little bit frustrating, but I
understand why it's there, especially after working on some of the -- you know, the open
space committees and things like that where we don't want to ratchet it down so much
that people can't bring us something that makes it innovative. Wow, that's really cool.
That's really neat and reward them for it, because I think if we do, you know, kind of
strangle that down too much, then, it will lead to people, you know, having less ability or
capability to do that and we have had some things come through that have been, you
know, really neat, fascinating, new ideas, new ways to look at things or develop things
and, you know, I think we want to kind of champion that going forward as we can, so --
and, then, as far as the density -- I mean that just kind of plays right into that for me that
not everything is going to fit exactly the way that we want it to fit and the more in-fill that
we do we are going to find more and more of that. I think one of the things to definitely
keep in mind for us is to kind of strive for more of that vision, but understand that, you
know, our -- our role here is fairly limited in what we see in the UDC and the comp plan.
So, the comp plan definitely gives us a little more latitude to input our -- you know, our
personal feelings into it, but at the same time, you know, the UDC -- UDC standards are
what we have to carry forward, but what's said here at Planning and Zoning and kind of
the direction that we give applicants does have a bearing on it. So, there are several
things that we have said here and they have -- City Council has taken those to heart
and -- and acted on them. You know, we don't always agree on everything. There is
some things that we recommend approval on, they will deny it and just the opposite, but
I do know that it does have a bearing on, you know, even the most recent stuff that's
went through. I will just leave it at that. So -- I mean a lot of these applications are -- by
the time they get to City Council what we have recommended here is -- it's there. They
are -- they have already done those things, because they do see that there is a little bit
of harmony happening between Planning and Zoning and Council. So, you know, don't
be afraid to mention it or throw it out as an idea, again, asking a lot of questions,
especially of people giving public testimony can kind of help us shape some of that as
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we send it on its way up to Council. So, anyway, I have rambled enough. Go right
ahead.
Lorcher: And my only comment to that is that I appreciate that every application is
unique and I have said that in counsel to different parties. You know, we look at each
individual, because just because you put it at Ten Mile interchange doesn't mean it
should be, you know, at McDermott and Franklin or it shouldn't be at McMillan or
someplace else. So, in that particular case, you know, that's where like the art comes
in, the science has been applied, but just because we allowed it in a space that's
identical two miles down the road doesn't mean it's applicable in another space that's
identical to it two miles in a different direction. So, you know, I have said that in -- in
Chambers before to people and sometimes it helps them, sometimes it doesn't. But
that's what I like when we look at each individual application on its own merit and not
necessarily comparing to what is surrounding it. Taking it into account, but not
necessarily saying, well, just because there is a Jimmy John's next door doesn't mean
you get to, you know, put a Subway next to it just because you can.
Hood: If I can that point -- to that point a little bit -- I mean I think it is nice to have
tenure and experience, though. You don't have to -- because you did it over here
doesn't mean you have to do it over there. It does help; right? You have seen similar
things before, but everything is case by case, site specific and no two are the same.
So, it's good just -- and you don't even have to necessarily recall it, but, you know, to
have that tucked away somewhere and I think it's helpful over time; right? You will --
you see some similar things and themes that come up with projects. So, that's why I
want to do what I can to keep you all engaged and learning and keep volunteering,
because it does take some time to get up to speed and be -- produce fruit if you will for
the community. So, that's one of the reasons we are here tonight. The thing I wanted
to just maybe touch on real quick is I -- and I get it, you know, whether it be an attorney
or a hired gun from the applicant or whoever that just speaks with some authority; right?
Like this is the way things are -- and, again, I'm not calling anyone a liar. Sometimes,
though, you can -- there is half truths or there is only one side of the story that they are
telling you. So, I would -- I would encourage you to clarify either with them or ask us --
things can be said as factual or absolute. I'm entitled to this. You have to allow me to
do this because the code says this or whatever the case may be. You know, you hear
those absolute types of -- and it maybe just doesn't feel right -- I would encourage you,
again, as in the same vein as -- ask those questions. I don't care who is saying it. You
are going to hear some of those things sometimes and I'm not saying what they are
saying isn't true, but usually there is a little more to the story. There aren't -- the city
does not typically give you just this blank -- sorry to be repeating -- slate entitlement and
you say, well, I got my zoning, so your comp plan doesn't apply. That's not necessarily
-- it can be the case and there is case law even that says -- but, guess what, we put
something in the DA that says you have to comply with the comp plan in the future. So,
that trumps this case law that you are referring to that -- so just again, you know, says --
not saying anything that's not factual, but it's not the whole -- the whole truth. So,
anyways, I will let that go. But -- but feel free to ask us or them to clarify those things.
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Seal: We can always remember we have Kurt. I mean I -- I know I have leaned on you
several times to keep -- keep us from being in trouble. But we also have had
applications -- we had the application come in for the multi-family that was going to go in
behind the Walmart and that was just hotly contested all the way through the process
and I thought legal counsel did a good job of helping to guide us to the decision that
was made, not only in Planning and Zoning, but also at City Council, because I watched
that -- you know, those hearings and to me that's just -- don't forget that we have that
and if -- and if you do have a question that is legal in nature or if you are even
wondering if it's legal in nature, you know, it's -- it's been good doing so.
Starman: Yep. Always happy to help.
Grace: Just a comment. Don't need to discuss it really, but just a comment. I think the
-- the -- the consideration isn't so much that any one of us up here aren't willing to call --
kind of call someone out on it, it's sort of that respectful citizen dynamic that we want to
make sure we don't come across as overbearing and, you know, over governmental
regulatory and so we -- we entertain a lot of things and I know personally I'm a little bit
more -- you know, I'm willing to do that maybe more than I should and I should call -- I
should maybe ask more questions along those lines, but I'm trying to be respectful,
because I think that's what we want to project from the city and so it's just a little
balance. That's all.
Hood: And my request -- I know you said you didn't really have a question, but I get -- I
have got a slide here about the art of asking questions. I think you can do -- ask
clarifying questions in a respectful manner and direct them to, hey, Kurt, I wasn't quite
understanding. You made this statement. Can you explain how that works a little bit
better or what -- you know, whatever to clarify where it's not -- we are not calling them
out, but you are asking clarifying questions or that maybe help -- and I will just say also,
you know, it is -- unless it's something just -- you know, or just can't stay silent --
typically we are going to sit here and let whatever said be said, unless you engage and
ask that question. So, you know, we are going to assume -- you know. And it happens
from time to time. It's like hold on a minute, that's what they just said. No. But we are
not doing that either; right? We want to be respectful. We are not sitting here and
calling someone a liar, so I think there is -- there is a way that we ground truth some of
those things, so everyone understands what was said and clarify what was said and
what's on the books or not on the books or what's entitled or not entitled in a respectful
manner. But we do -- but we need to be engaged usually. It's like, hey, I didn't -- you
made the statement, can you help me clarify and we may or may not be able to -- you,
know to clarify what they said or what they meant by what they were saying, but we can
clarify what's on the books or entitled or whatever, those types of things, so -- okay.
Kind of transitioning again -- and this is what I referred to at the beginning -- these --
these next six or eight slides -- and, by the way, if anyone wants that again -- some of
you it's been a minute or two since you were handed the handbook. It's not really a
handbook, but our slides, but I can -- I can share this again if anyone is interested in a
re-review of orientation materials. But these ones we often fly through. So, I thought
we would just spend a little bit of time, see if there is any questions. I kind of mentioned
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some of this already. I mean some of this will just come over time, too. As -- as you get
hours in that seat you will -- you will -- you will pick up more and more all the time, but
these are just some best practices. I'm not going to read the slide to you there. And
same with -- same with the knowledge part; right? Again, LUPA -- I don't -- I don't
expect you to memorize any of this, but you should know about it; right? You should
know where it's at, how to access it, at least -- I remember hearing something about
this. Can you help me -- private property rights? How is that -- what is our role in that?
You know. Again, don't feel like you have to memorize any of this stuff, but have some
knowledge of what the comp plan is and does. Some of the, you know, UDC
information -- you will pick up on some of this -- and, again, we mention this to new
commissioners, you know, if we say ACHD and you are like, wait, what was ACHD
again? You know, some of the acronyms, the short -- you know, some of the planning
jargon we use -- we try not to, but we fall into that trap a lot of times. Help. Hey, wait a
minute. Hold on. Before you move on what -- what is that term? What does that
mean? We have a glossary, too. So, again, if anyone needs a glossary again on that
kind of shortcut, we -- I would be happy to share that as well. Again, Robert's Rules,
some of the procedures. We are pretty good there. And, again, you get more and more
comfortable over time with that, but -- and that group dynamic; right? That only comes
with time spent together and so you will get -- you get a feel for each other and
anticipate -- I think they are going to ask a question about this or that or whatever. So --
but -- but working together as a team really and feeding off of each other. I have seen
some of that; right? Hey, I'm going to, you know, echo some of what was just said. I
got my own thing. So, that consensus building getting to a -- you know, it does -- and
you don't have to unify it all the time; right? It can be three to two. It can be a split vote.
There is nothing wrong with that. But you should be -- again we are representing the
city, we are going to be professional, we are going to be courteous, those types of
things. Listening -- and, again, I'm not -- I'm not -- I'm not wagging my finger at
anybody. These are just best practices. This isn't because something that's happened
and I'm here now I'm -- you know. Legal said, hey, you better talk to the Commission
about this. This is just a reminder. Especially that last one a little bit, watching
nonverbal cues. And I think I have got a couple of slides or the next slide on that, too.
It is okay -- and this came up, too. It is okay to share your -- your personal beliefs and
thoughts. Your real life experiences. I think that's fair. We want to be sensitive,
though, to their perspective as well, whoever they might be. The applicant. The public.
Whoever is before you. You are going to give them your attention and respect their --
their views. So, again, here is some things -- you know, don't be on your phone
searching Google, checking in on Facebook. Give them your attention, please. This
doesn't mean you have to sit up perfectly straight and eye contact all the time, but just
some things to be aware of; right? It doesn't mean you can't, you know, have a little,
you know, to the chair, hey, I got a question. You know, a little bit of that's fine. This is
pretty common sense stuff. But it's -- I think it's a good refresher. The referral by name
and we talked about that a little bit, because I came up with a joint meeting, where we --
we are still trying to figure out how we can help with that. I haven't talked to the clerk
yet, but maybe there is a way, you know, sign-in sheet, we have people's names.
Maybe there is a way we can project that on your -- you know, here is who signed in
and if you didn't catch their name, they mumbled and -- you know, we have some of that
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information. It's not going to be a perfect system though. I don't -- I don't know how we
can do that. We are talking about, too, again, just working with the applicants and
saying who is going to present, at least would have their contact information. But
someone just from the audience can come up and mumble their name and there is not
a whole lot we can do about that. The chair maybe can assist with some of that. Hey,
we didn't quite catch that. What was your name again? You know, it's a way to do that
and kind of tactfully, but what we are trying to see if there is a way we can improve that
a little bit and this is -- this is the pep speech I guess. So, keep the faith. You know, we
do change them, though; right? I mean they are not perfect. I mentioned that earlier,
too. Things change in our -- in our community, in our society. COVID -- we are still
dealing with some of that and some of that stuff you are going to see with drive-
throughs. I mean there are drive-throughs that -- everyone wants pickup now. No one's
going into restaurants. People are. But there is still more and more of that pickup or
drive-through in our society and so we are changing our codes, because they are
antiquated and you are seeing a bunch of CUPs for drive-throughs and -- or why, so --
the second bullet I think is a good one. There -- to me there is a -- there is -- you can be
swayed by public testimony. We shouldn't be pressured; right? So, you can have good
points and you should consider them, but you shouldn't feel obligated or pressured, like,
oh, am I going to make it out to my car if I say no to this project; right? Or, hey, you
know, I know your friends or I'm going to hold something over here or whatever. You
know, don't feel pressured to make a decision. Really stay within the confines of the
code and the comp plan. Again, your real life experiences and what you think is best for
Meridian. But not -- and, again, there is a difference between personal bias and
personal experience; right? You know what you have observed. That doesn't
necessarily mean in every case you can't approve a Starbucks, because you don't like
their coffee. That -- that's just -- there is a difference between -- and things relevant.
Fair and impartial. You have heard that before, too. So, come into that, do your
research, but you should be open minded to hearing the process out. I have touched
on this a little bit, but, again, that -- that rapport, the collective decision making, it's not
bad now, but, again, you have two fairly new Commissioners. That will just improve I
think. So, in respect to -- it doesn't mean you have to agree on every topic. Again,
listen, hear people out, including your peers there at the dais. I'm not doing a good job
with the one at the end there, monitor your air time. I don't see any of you dominating,
you know, the meetings necessarily. Chair, obviously, you know, is probably going to
say more words than anybody else at any given meeting, but allow the opportunities for,
again, your peers to have their say. I think you guys are really good about that, too.
And here is the ones that I mentioned. There was some of this -- and, again, I'm not
going to read every one of these, but, you know, if you think Councilman Cavener does
a good job at some of this, too -- I mean I think it's fair; right? You can ask questions of
staff, the applicant, I think that's what the next slide is actually. Public. Colleagues. So,
just some cues for, you know, what would you do different? What -- you know, engage
with them. Ask them for some follow-up questions. It doesn't mean you have to, but
you can. And your fellow Commissioners, you know, and I know you do that, too.
Right? You typically at the end of presentations and testimony -- hey, what do you guys
think. But I will go back to that first one again. Engage staff if you really have
questions. We will raise the flag if we really see concerns or, well, you will see
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something on our face like, oh, you know, but -- but feel free, too. If you really are like --
that doesn't sound right. I don't remember that being -- have we had anything else like
that? Is that -- is what they are saying the case here? You can do that in a more tactful
manner than I just said it, but --
Seal: You have to say it's easy to read that. Maybe we are going off the rails from --
probably Sonya that kind of looks like --
Hood: Yeah.
Seal: -- oh, no.
Starman: Can I ask -- can I interject a couple thoughts on this? I also think this slide
and the next are really helpful. So, we don't have to do a deep dive tonight, but it's -- I
think it's worth taking a look at for a couple reasons. One of which will be selfish on my
part from a legal perspective, but -- but, first and foremost, I think it's just a really good
way to engage the public -- the applicant, as well as, you know, public testimony in a
very respectful, productive way, instead of just listening and being stone faced or saying
just thank you. It's, you know, the opportunity to ask the applicant or the -- either the
applicant or the person from the public that's testifying, you know, thoughts about, well,
this -- you know, we are probably going to do something like this at some point, but do
you have some thoughts to mitigate the impact on your adjacent property or your
neighborhood or do, yes, the pre-conditions or -- where you make it more of a -- more of
a back and forth and constructive, instead of just opposition. The part I like about that
selfishly from a legal perspective is we -- I have used this term a few times already
tonight, but, you know, we will talk frequently from the staff perspective about the record
and so when courts look at issues like this or when there is controversy, it's very helpful
to be able to have a record showing that the Commission and the Council, the hearing
in general was fair, it was open, people had a chance to engage. It wasn't one sided.
There wasn't bias. And so that -- that extra sort of interaction where we -- it's an
opportunity to identify issues, get them on the record, address them, show to others --
the judges in particular that, you know, we looked at all sides and we were fair about
that and balanced. That's -- that can be helpful and I think, you know, the -- that is what
it is and I will just put that to the side. But most importantly it's just a really good way to
gather information for you all as a Commission to make good, informed decisions and
you can gather more information without -- you are not being antagonistic or overly
probing. It's just a more of a conversational way to do it by asking a question and
people appreciate the opportunity to give some additional, you know, thoughts. Those
are just a couple of supplemental ideas.
Hood: I would even -- real quick. I would even -- and I will lay down sort of as a
challenge. You don't have to accept the challenge. But I -- I do think -- and I will use
Council as an example. They are pretty good. If someone takes the time out to come
down here, usually you can even throw them a softball, maybe even you know the
answer to it, hey, where are you? Where is your property in relation to this property?
Oh. Okay. Thank you. You know, something while they are here that is a follow-up
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question. Hopefully, there is something meaty and you really have a question and you
are like, oh, can you explain this a little bit more or a follow-up or something that really
engages them. But even something as simple as, you know, help me out with, you
know, why you are interested in this or something that is a pretty even simple answer,
but it is -- it's engaging not just the, you know, thank you for being here. You know.
Name and address. They sit down. You know, it doesn't have to be everybody
necessary, especially if you got a packed house; right? That can drag on. But some
level of -- and maybe you even know the answer, where you are going to ask them, so
they are -- they are aware that you are -- you are listening and you are engaged, so --
anyways, just -- Council is really -- they really are good at that. When someone takes
the time out to come here, they have something they want to follow up with.
Parsons: Mr. Chair, Members of the Commission, I just wanted to say there is -- there
is other techniques, too. I mean we have been -- we have been doing this together for a
while and I know a lot of times other testimony can drag on and you are hearing the
same topics over and over. It's a very good idea just to say, hey, we have summarized,
this is what I have heard from a majority of you, transportation, enrollment numbers. Is
there anyone here that would like to add something new to the conversation that we
haven't heard and just try to redirect people, so that you are not getting the same thing
over and over, because certainly, as you all know, people come here with emotion and
it's -- sometimes it's hard to hold back your emotions when -- when you are passionate
about your property. So, I think those are some -- I think that's a good opportunity for
you to summarize and say we have heard this, can you contribute something new that
we haven't heard yet? Or is there something that we can explain better for you to help
you understand? So, we are getting the same topic over and over and redirect it to
staff, legal or even the applicant when they come back up.
Seal: Yeah. And I -- I was going to say I -- I know I don't do that. I know some of the
people that have followed through up to the chair have -- were much better at that than
-- than I am. So, I will keep that in mind as I go through and try and formulate it. So, I
kind of get lost in the minutiae of it sometimes, but it is true. There is about the seventh
or eighth time you have heard the same exact thing -- especially if they are reading off a
form letter. I know that some folks do that, too, and they just insert their little blurb in
there. It does tend to wear on the night.
Hood: You know, there is a little -- there is a little bit of an art form to that, too; right?
Like I think you can acknowledge that concern you have heard for the seventh or eighth
time, sort of get out -- get away or across to the audience like we get it. Starting to bug
us. If we hear another seven or eight people -- you know what I mean? Like you don't
have -- you wouldn't say it that way; right? And -- but it's something like, hey, guys --
you know. And you kind of -- they are like, okay, we -- they heard us and if we say it
more we are likely going to push them away, you know. So, again, it's more of an art
form and you need to listen to whatever -- they get three minutes they can basically say
whatever they want. But it's a good reminder say, yeah, we have got it, you know, and
if there is a finer point to that we will listen to that, too. Yeah. It's very -- that's -- that's
tough to do. But I think with just some -- again, with just some body language or the
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way you say things, like, okay, we get it and, again, I will -- I won't read this. In fact, I
don't even know if I had anything on this slide to call to your attention, but if there is
something next to your monitors besides the -- the password login I think I would put
this next to it, you know, here is just best practices of -- of -- you know, things to
remember. Pretty high level; right? Nothing very super specific, but -- and you don't
write the findings, but give us -- when you are making a decision, you know, all staff and
applicant testimony stuff helps, but it's -- you know, give us some reasons that you are
-- that you are supporting the project or recommending now the project and whatnot.
Starman: So, this is -- I think the -- the Commission does a good job of this historically
and of late as well. But here is just -- I want to call a little bit about number -- number
five and six -- or combined. It makes a good -- makes a good record and make written
findings and conclusions. You know, staff takes the lead on the written findings and
conclusions, but this is the point I wanted to talk about with regard to that issue, which is
it's very helpful -- or -- for everybody involved, the applicant, community members, for
the Council, if they are looking at your decision, for staff as they write findings and
conclusions of law and, then, particularly if we get challenged in court in particular, it's
very important is -- to kind of articulate your thought process, so -- what I mean by that
is that there is sort of -- kind of a flow to how that happens; right? So, you can hear a
bunch of testimony, whatever the issue might be, but perhaps pro and con. Yeah. So,
you need to weigh that information of -- you know, you heard testimony in favor,
testimony against, that kind of fell into three categories. Let's summarize what those
were. You know, traffic, schools and whatever. Transition. And, then, a little
discussion about -- you know, I -- I found this more -- this was more compelling to me,
that, you know, traffic I think is -- is manageable here, because -- and a little bit of a
reasoning behind that, some explanation as to -- you heard both sides, the pros, the
cons, you weighed the evidence and you find that the weight -- the evidence more
weighs on this side, wherever that side might be. So, that's kind of part one of the
thought processes. Then part two is those conclusions of law, which, again, staff will
write, you know, the written version of that, but it's -- apply those findings to the criteria,
typically the UDC provisions that says, you know, you have findings to make and do the
-- so, you make your findings or your facts that are before you and, then, does it fit into
the UDC requirements. Can you -- you know, does it fit the requirements that you are
required to make? Is that -- whether it meets UDC -- the law in this instance. And so
those things put together to lead, then, to the final, which is, you know, if it's your -- if
you are the final decision maker, like on a conditional use permit, that would be your
final -- you know, that would lead to a decision and order that says we approve it or
approve it or changes, whatever it might be. Well, if -- in case a recommendation, just
goes to Council with your recommendation, but that's my point, just to kind of wrap all
that up in a sentence or two is that it's really helpful to explain your reasoning. I heard
these facts, I reached these conclusions based upon the UDC. Therefore, my decision
or my recommendation is X, you know, just to be able to kind of articulate how you got
from point one to the final point, as opposed just jumping to the final point.
Grace: Mr. Chair. Maybe if you could help a little bit. I can't -- I try to start the
discussion when we -- when we close public testimony, we talk amongst ourselves, with
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a -- sort of statement like I'm leaning -- or I'm looking at it this way, because I don't want
to look like a fool if I change my mind and the first person that goes is -- is a little -- it's a
little tough; right? Because we don't -- especially on one that's a little bit -- it could go
either way and so you don't know what your fellow Commissioners are thinking and you
don't want to be the only guy way out on a limb, but I guess I would say, number one,
probably got to stick to your guns, if your gut's telling you and you are looking at
something a certain way, it is what it is. But I try to leave open the possibility that my
Commissioner -- fellow Commissioners could, you know, persuade me in a different
direction. So, I know it's not easy to be the first guy to say something on some things
and so I -- if you have any thoughts or tips on that, it's probably welcome.
Hood: And your fellow Commissioners may have some -- some thoughts and tips on
that, too. I guess what I would say is follow your gut after considering -- you know,
reading the staff report, hearing staff's presentation and all that -- all that. Yes, you are
going to, then, really start to form your opinion on the project. Not that you can't be
swayed, but really you -- you are -- you are largely done with what your facts are that
you are considering, not what -- you don't need to all agree. It's -- I heard -- and I guess
my advice to you, then, sort of that way -- and, again, advice may even be a little strong.
My -- my tip -- my whatever -- is to say, hey, I like this about the project. Don't like that
about the project. You know. Or something that, hey, this is kind of cool or that -- I
don't know. What do you guys think about it? You know. There is a way that you don't
have to put all your cards out there and say, hey, I'm going to support -- you know, I'm
likely to support it or I'm leaning towards this or whatever. You can just say, hey, I kind
of like this. Don't really understand that. I am kind of concerned about this though. You
know. And just start that discussion more if you really -- and I would also just say I --
you know, easier said than done; right? No one is going to -- I don't -- I know I don't
judge you if you do change your mind or whatever. You don't have to stick to your guns
necessarily. If you are persuaded, but you are like, gosh, I already said I liked the
project, but you bring up a good point. Now I got to support the project. Do what's in
the best interest of the community. You got to kind of put your pride aside and go, you
know what, I do think that -- or never mind, this project -- I don't think it works. You
know, I am convinced by the conversation. So, I guess I would just keep that open
mind and not let your pride or whatever that may be get in the way a little bit, consider
the facts and to Kurt's point and the slide -- and changed it on you, because you were
talking about all these, but tell the story. You don't -- hey, this is compelling to me and
for that reason right now -- I'm leaning towards this, but I could be swayed because I'm
still getting that over there. It's kind of a -- I don't know.
Starman: Okay. That last point in particular I had the same thought as Caleb. So, I will
get to that in just 30 seconds or so, but I think that's excellent advice and I like how you
framed it. I think that's a really good technique is to say, you know, after -- if you are the
first or second speaker or the commissioner making comment -- I like the idea of -- you
know, these are my initial thoughts. I'm leaning this direction. I like the idea of saying
these are things I like, some things I don't like and, then, you know, you can end that by
saying, but -- but I want to reserve my -- my -- until I hear from -- I will reserve my
judgment until I hear from my fellow Commissioners. It's always a nice way to kind of
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wrap that up and, then, to the part that Caleb mentioned I really like a lot, too, is my
same thought is that I don't think there is -- if you listen to your fellow Commissioners
and they -- they say something that changes your mind, I would say I admire that, that,
you know, you -- you are a thoughtful person, you listen to your colleagues, something
resonated with you and you say, you know what, that makes sense to me. I think I'm
now going to move in this other direction. I don't think that's a bad thing at all. I think
that's a positive thing that you are working as a team, you are listening to your
colleagues and you are -- you know, that's what deliberation is all about. You are all
talking it through, thinking it through and you are reaching a conclusion and, just lastly, I
will say what Caleb has said several times now, which is at the end of the day, you
know, if it's not unanimous, that's perfectly fine as well. If you end up -- you know,
whatever the vote might be three-two, four-one, whatever it might be, that's -- that's
perfectly fine. There is no -- that's not an issue either.
Seal: Yeah. I was going to say I will say I have -- I have been the person out on the
limb, so -- and I do tend to stick to my guns on a lot of stuff, but I have been swayed as
well. So, I mean there is -- there is a lot of different elements to it and -- and some of
the -- the most learning I have done, to be perfectly honest, is -- is when there is a lot of
-- not necessarily division, but different viewpoints on the Commission, talking about it
different ways, looking at it from different perspectives and a lot of times that will end up
in, you know, a split vote, you know, fairly even on both sides, with, you know, one vote
deciding. So, sometimes that makes things a little bit -- this is a lot of information that
comes out of that, so sometimes that's easier for Council to act on. Sometimes it is a
little more difficult, because it is -- I mean there is just so much that goes into it. So
much that's relatable on either side of it, so -- but -- yeah. I don't know, I guess since
the beginning I haven't been afraid to let them know what I think, so -- and, again, I
mean, you know, the idea that we should all think the same -- that's why there is -- you
know, that's why there is so many people that are up here on the Commission to make
sure that we are looking at it from a lot of different perspectives and even to the -- to the
point of -- of choosing commissioners, we want to make sure that we have, you know,
people that are in the area of impact, people that are north of the freeway, south of the
freeway, in different places, so that we -- you know, because the issues that are
happening, you know, kind of in our southeast are not necessarily the same issues that
are happening in our northwest. So, it's good to have a lot of diversity up here to kind of
help handle that.
Grace: And I'm not afraid of looking the fool. I do it routinely. But, my Commissioners,
you guys often bring up a lot of good points that I just hadn't thought of and so I like the
idea of sort of reserving the ability to go, well, I'm open to being persuaded, so --
Hood: That is what that deliberation time is for. Now, why did you hear what I -- you
know, consider all the facts and -- and talk it out. The one thing -- so, again, Kurt
covered most of the things on this slide. I do want to spend just a minute on that
conditions part of that and this is another one sometimes we are -- you know, wave a
flag if you guys are like hold on a minute, don't require them to do that, that -- you know,
more than likely we are headed down the wrong path if you say go build that sidewalk,
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you know, two miles away from your project, because there isn't a correlation to the
impact of this project. You know, you aren't out to solve the world's problems. If it's
something they need to mitigate and it's appropriate for them, fine, but, again, some of
that should be -- you know, you are causing -- this is likely to happen if we approve your
project. Therefore, this condition to mitigate that impact on our community -- that should
also be part of your thought process and the pros and cons and, hey, we are
implementing this condition because -- you know, you have got -- you know, these are
four bedroom homes and we are afraid of, you know not enough -- I don't know.
Whatever. Some nexus back to whatever your condition is. It should tie back somehow
to that project. But we can help you a little bit with that if there is -- and again, I haven't
seen you kind of go off the rails and say, go build an interchange and go, you know,
whatever, so -- but just remember that, it really should be kind of direct impact and
proportionate to their impact and if it's a two lot subdivision having them do something
that's going to cost 20 million dollars, you know, probably is not an appropriate
condition.
Seal: I can't ask all applicants to build a bike path?
Hood: You can. We will probably say don't in this case, but if it doesn't connect -- if it's
the bike path to nowhere then -- okay. So, I think I'm about done. I did want to just --
those training videos, if you just go to idahoapa.org, that's where I got the one and there
are -- again, there is a -- and they are still building the library, but there is six or seven
up there now. You go there, they have a knowledge center. Conferences and events. I
think I mentioned this. We have -- it's a small budget, but we have a budget for the
Commission. So, if you say, you know what, hey, down on The Grove they are having a
training about housing or density or whatever, you see something like that, we may be
able to get you to a training, too. So, they have some of those things locally, usually,
within the state anyways that are there with conferences and other events. That's some
policy guides and legislation. Here is my disclaimer a little bit, you know, all of those
may or may not align with the city's kind of legal interpretation of some of those things,
but for the most part I think you are pretty safe, pretty good. Jerry Mason, who you saw
on there, has been -- I don't know, kind of doing a lot of that -- for since the '80s I think.
So, there is some good stuff there anyways. But -- anyway. So, that -- that website is
one I would send you to. The American Planning Association also has some briefs and
some other things if you want to get a little -- little bit bigger picture of where the
profession stands on some of these topics you can. Really it's that last one that I
wanted to just sort of highlight for you that there are some good resources there. And,
then, finally, I just wanted to let you know who we are. In fact, this slide is outdated as
of today, because we are promoting Nick Napoli. So, you will be seeing Nick at hearing
probably July or August. So, he is going to transition. He is going to start. Stacy is
going to kind of start to help train him up and Bill will obviously help train him up, but
Nick is going to -- was promoted today from assistant to associate planner. So, if you
haven't met Nick you will soon, but this is the team -- will be back likely in the fall or
winter with another type of a training. We are opportunistic. Thank you for bringing it to
our attention that wasn't anything and everyone had it on their calendar, so might as
well do some training. I do have a list. It's a little dated now, but I still have a list of
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potential topics for the future, but I am open to whatever -- you know, inviting ACHD and
I am going to tell them if we come where I can totally throw you under the bus or ask
you, you know, all the hard questions, but not going to guarantee there won't be some
hard questions. But some of those types of things. So, if there is other trainings or
guest speakers or things like that you are like, hey, I want to hear from someone or
about a topic, we will see if I have -- if I know somebody that can maybe help -- help
with that presentation. So, you don't have to do that now. If you want to call that phone
number or my direct line or whatever and you are like, hey, can we get a guest speaker
to talk -- talk on this or whatever. I just -- whatever you want to hear. But, likely, again,
we will be back later this year to do some more discussion. I don't want to call it
training. But have a discussion on best practices or whatever topics you all want. So,
appreciate your time tonight. Little more than 20 minutes, but -- and we can keep going,
too, if there is other things that are just on your heart now, let's do it.
Seal: Commissioners, anything further? No? Really appreciate the time and -- and I
mean some of us our new and some of its newer information for those of us that haven't
been through it in quite a while. So, always appreciate -- appreciate the refresher in
there and do appreciate the dedication that the staff has to providing, you know, really
good information. The new staff report that is going to -- I mean that -- that's just a
highlight on what you guys are doing to help improve things for us that have to sit up
here and kind of deliberate on all this stuff. So, you know, again, staff does a great job
and, again, Kurt really appreciate your -- your guidance on some things to help keep us
out of trouble and, yeah, we are -- we will just keep on doing this and I know that
everybody's doing their best to provide, you know, what the city needs long term. So,
appreciate that.
Hood: Thank you.
Seal: With that I will take one more motion.
Grace: Move to adjourn, Mr. Chairman.
Lorcher: Second.
Seal: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to adjourn. All in favor, please, say aye.
We are adjourned. Thanks, everyone.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 7:36 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS. )
APPROVED
6 1 6 1 24
ANDREW SEAL - CHAIRMAN DATE APPROVED
ATTEST:
CHRIS JOHNSON - CITY CLERK
F29]
E IDIAN
'aAHO
AGENDA ITEM
ITEM TOPIC: Approve Minutes of the May 2, 2024 Meeting of the Planning and Zoning
Commission Meeting
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Seal: It's been moved and seconded to approve File No. H-2024-0006 for Idaho Pup
and Ales, with the aforementioned modification. All in favor please say aye. Opposed
nay? The motion passes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Seal: All right. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. And good luck. All right. Well,
then, I will take one more motion.
Garrett: Move to adjourn, Mr. Chairman.
Seal: Do I have a second?
Sandoval: Second.
Seal: It's been moved and seconded that we adjourn. All in favor please say aye.
Opposed nay? We are adjourned. Thank you all.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 6:18 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS. )
APPROVED
5 16 1 24
ANDREW SEAL - CHAIRMAN DATE APPROVED
ATTEST:
CHRIS JOHNSON - CITY CLERK
F-11
W IDIAN�
AGENDA ITEM
ITEM TOPIC: Approve Summary Minutes of the May 7, 2024 Joint Meeting of the Planning
and Zoning Commission Meeting with Meridian City Council
F12
W IDIAN
SPECIAL JOINT MEETING OF THE MERIDIAN CITY
COUNCIL AND MERIDIAN PLANNING AND ZONING
COMMISSION
City Council Chambers, 33 East Broadway Avenue Meridian, Idaho
Tuesday, May 07, 2024 at 4:30 PM
Minutes
VIRTUAL MEETING OPTION
City Council meetings can also be attended online or by phone.
https:Ijbit.lx/meridianzoommeeting
or dial 253-215-8782,webinar ID: 810 9527 6712
Meridian City Council meetings are streamed live at https:,(/meridiancitv.org/live
ROLL CALL ATTENDANCE
PRESENT
Councilman Doug Taylor
Councilman John Overton
Councilwoman Anne Little Roberts
Councilman Luke Cavener
Councilwoman Liz Strader
Commissioner Brian Garrett
Commissioner Maria Lorcher
Commissioner Patrick Grace
Commissioner Matthew Sandoval
Commissioner Jared Smith
Commissioner Andrew Seal
ABSENT
Mayor Robert E. Simison
Commissioner Enrique Rivera
ADOPTION OF AGENDA Adopted
DEPARTMENT / COMMISSION REPORTS [Action Item]
1. Staff Report Template Changes
ADJOURNMENT 5:40 PM
F13]
E IDIAN
'aAHO
AGENDA ITEM
ITEM TOPIC: Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Idaho Pup and Ales (H-2024-0006) by
Aviva Childress, Studio H Architects, located at 70 S Outpost Ln.
F14
CITY OF MERIDIAN C�
V
FINDINGS OF FACT, CONCLUSIONS OF LAW
AND I D A H O
DECISION& ORDER
In the Matter of the Request for Conditional Use Permit for Idaho Pup and Ales,Located at S
Outpost Lane in the C-G Zoning District,by Aviva Childress.
Case No(s).H-2024-0006
For the Planning& Zoning Commission Hearing Date of: May 2,2026(Findings on May 16,2024)
A. Findings of Fact
1. Hearing Facts(see attached Staff Report for the hearing date of May 2, 2024, incorporated by
reference)
2. Process Facts(see attached Staff Report for the hearing date of May 2,2024, incorporated by
reference)
3. Application and Property Facts (see attached Staff Report for the hearing date of May 2, 2024,
incorporated by reference)
4. Required Findings per the Unified Development Code(see attached Staff Report for the hearing
date of May 2,2024,incorporated by reference)
B. Conclusions of Law
1. The City of Meridian shall exercise the powers conferred upon it by the"Local Land Use
Planning Act of 1975,"codified at Chapter 65,Title 67,Idaho Code(I.C. §67-6503).
2. The Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission takes judicial notice of its Unified Development
Code codified at Title 11 Meridian City Code,and all current zoning maps thereof. The City of
Meridian has,by ordinance, established the Impact Area and the Amended Comprehensive Plan
of the City of Meridian,which was adopted April 19,2011,Resolution No. 11-784 and Maps.
3. The conditions shall be reviewable by the City Council pursuant to Meridian City Code § 11-5A.
4. Due consideration has been given to the comment(s)received from the governmental
subdivisions providing services in the City of Meridian planning jurisdiction.
5. It is found public facilities and services required by the proposed development will not impose
expense upon the public if the attached conditions of approval are imposed.
6. That the City has granted an order of approval in accordance with this decision,which shall be
signed by the Chairman of the Commission and City Clerk and then a copy served by the Clerk
upon the applicant,the Planning Department,the Public Works Department and any affected
party requesting notice.
CITY OF MERIDIAN FINDINGS OF FACT,CONCLUSIONS OF LAW AND DECISION&ORDER
CASE NO(S). H-2024-0006
Page 1 15
7. That this approval is subject to the conditions of approval in the attached staff report for the
hearing date of May 2, 2024, incorporated by reference. The conditions are concluded to be
reasonable and the applicant shall meet such requirements as a condition of approval of the
application.
C. Decision and Order
Pursuant to the Planning &Zoning Commission's authority as provided in Meridian City Code § I I-
5A and based upon the above and foregoing Findings of Fact which are herein adopted, it is hereby
ordered that:
1. The applicant's request for Conditional Use Permit is hereby approved in accord with the
conditions of approval in the staff report for the hearing date of May 2,2024,attached as Exhibit
A.
D. Notice of Applicable Time Limits
Notice of Two(2)Year Conditional Use Permit Duration
Please take notice that the conditional use permit,when granted, shall be valid for a maximum
period of two(2)years unless otherwise approved by the City in accord with UDC 11-5B-6F.1.
During this time,the applicant shall commence the use as permitted in accord with the
conditions of approval, satisfy the requirements set forth in the conditions of approval, and
acquire building permits and commence construction of permanent footings or structures on or
in the ground. For conditional use permits that also require platting,the final plat must be
signed by the City Engineer within this two(2)year period in accord with UDC 11-513-617.2.
Upon written request and filed by the applicant prior to the termination of the period in accord
with 11-513-6.F.1,the Director may authorize a single extension of the time to commence the
use not to exceed one(1)two (2)year period. Additional time extensions up to two(2)years as
determined and approved by the Commission may be granted. With all extensions,the Director
or Commission may require the conditional use comply with the current provisions of Meridian
City Code Title 11.
E. Judicial Review
Pursuant to Idaho Code § 67-6521(1)(d), if this final decision concerns a matter enumerated in Idaho
Code § 67-652 1(1)(a), an affected person aggrieved by this final decision may,within twenty-eight
(28)days after all remedies have been exhausted, including requesting reconsideration of this final
decision as provided by Meridian City Code § 1-7-10, seek judicial review of this final decision as
provided by chapter 52,title 67, Idaho Code. This notice is provided as a courtesy; the City of
Meridian does not admit by this notice that this decision is subject to judicial review under LLUPA.
F. Notice of Right to Regulatory Takings Analysis
Pursuant to Idaho Code §§ 67-652 1(1)(d) and 67-8003, an owner of private property that is the
subject of a final decision may submit a written request with the Meridian City Clerk for a regulatory
takings analysis.
G. Attached: Staff Report for the hearing date of May 2,2024
CITY OF MERIDIAN FINDINGS OF FACT,CONCLUSIONS OF LAW AND DECISION&ORDER
CASE NO(S). H-2024-0006
Page 2 F16]
By action of the Planning&Zoning Commission at its regular meeting held on the 16th day
Of May 92024.
COMMISSIONER ANDREW SEAL, CHAIRMAN VOTED
COMMISSIONER MARIA LORCHER,VICE CHAIRMAN VOTED
COMMISSIONER BRIAN GARRETT VOTED
COMMISSIONER JARED SMITH VOTED
COMMISSIONER PATRICK GRACE VOTED
COMMISSIONER MATTHEW SANDOVAL VOTED
COMMISSIONER ENRIQUE RIVERA VOTED
Andrew Seal, Chairman 5-16-2024
Attest:
Chris Johnson, City Clerk 5-16-2024
Copy served upon the Applicant,the Planning and Development Services divisions of the Community
Development Department,the Public Works Department and the City Attorney.
By: Dated: 5-16-2024
City Clerk's Office
CITY OF MERIDIAN FINDINGS OF FACT,CONCLUSIONS OF LAW AND DECISION&ORDER
CASE NO(S). H-2024-0006
Page 3 1
EXHIBIT A
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENTDEPARTMENT REPORT
REPORT ✓✓ rY L
HEARING 5/2/2024
Legend ---
DATE: M Project Location
TO: Planning&Zoning Commission Area of Impact
�= City Limits
FROM: Linda Ritter,Associate Planner O Analysis
208-884-5533 —
lritter@meridiancity.org
v
APPLICANT: Aviva Childress, Studio H Architects
SUBJECT: H-2024-0006
Idaho Pup and Ales-CUP
LOCATION: 70 S. Outpost Lane,in the NW 1/4 of the
NW 1/4 of Section 14,Township 3N, _ -_ _--®--
Range 1 W
I. PROJECT OVERVIEW
A. Summary
The Applicant applied for a conditional use permit(CUP) to construct a 6,595 square foot
building(3,548 square foot building, 3,047 square foot covered patio) on 1.098 acres of
land in the C-G zoning district for a drinking establishment which includes a dog park
club. The club will be open to members and their guests and will serve as a gathering
place for dog-lovers in the community to have safe, clean fun and to meet one another.
In accordance with the Ten Mile Crossing Design Guidelines, the Ten Mile Crossing
Design Review Board(Board)reviewed and preliminarily approved the building
elevations per the letter dated January 18, 2024.
The applicant is showing an area for a food truck on their site plan. The use of a food truck for
this proposal cannot be approved under this Conditional Use Permit as it is not an allowed use
through unified development code. However; the applicant can apply for a temporary use permit
(TUP)through the City Clerk's office for the use of a food truck.
B. Issues
None
C. Recommendation
Staff recommends approval of the proposed conditional use permit with the conditions in Section
III per the Findings in Section IV.
D. Planning and Zoning Commission Decision
The Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission heard this item on May 2,2024. At the public
hearing,the Commission moved to approve the subject Conditional Use Permit request.
City of Meridian I Department Report I. Project Overview
■
II. COMMUNITY METRICS
Table 1•Land Use
Description Details Map Ref.
Existing Land Use(s) Commercial -
Proposed Land Use(s) Drinking Establishment with a -
Existing/Proposed Zoning C-G V.A.2
Future Land Use Designation Commercial V.A.3
Table 2:Process Facts
Description Details
Preapplication Meeting date Tuesday,February 6,2024
Neighborhood Meeting 2/15/2024; 1 attendee
Site posting date (Click or tap to enter a date)
Table 3: Community Metrics
Agency/Element Description/Issue Reference
Ada County Highway District III.E
• Comments Received Yes/Staff Report -
• Commission Action Required No _ -
• Access Existing Arterial(Franklin Rd)/Local Road(S. Outpost -
Lane
ITD Comments Received No IIIT
School District(s) N/A -
• Distance N/A -
• Capacity of Schools N/A -
• Number of Students Enrolled N/A -
See City/Agency Comments and Conditions Section for all department/agency comments received.
City of Meridian I Department Report II. Community Metrics
■
III. STAFF ANALYSIS
Comprehensive Plan and Unified Development Code(UDC)
A. General Overview
Mixed-Use Commercial(MU-Com): This project is located within the Ten Mile Interchange
Specific Area Plan(TMISAP)and is designated as Mixed-Use Commercial. The purpose of the
Mixed-Use Commercial designation is to encourage the development of a mixture of office,
retail,recreational, employment,and other miscellaneous uses,with supporting multifamily or
single family attached residential uses. While the focus of these areas is on commercial and
employment uses,the horizontal and vertical integration of residential uses is essential to securing
entitlements.As with all mixed-use areas,this designation requires developments to integrate the
three major use categories-residential,commercial, and employment. In Mixed Use Commercial
areas three or more significant uses also tend to be larger scale projects. This designation is
intended to provide flexibility and encourage developers to build innovative projects. General
Retail and Service Commercial District(C-G): Allowed uses include largest scale and broadest
mix of retail, office, service, and light industrial uses. These uses are in close proximity and/or
access to interstate or arterial intersections.
The proposed use of a drinking establishment and dog park club is a community-serving
commercial use that fits within the TMISAP land use designation of MU-Com as well as the C-G
zoning district. The proposed use can serve both the immediate area and the nearby community at
large. The proposed location is adjacent to commercial development and nearby residences. Staff
finds the proposed use will provide a needed use for the nearby community and offer employment
opportunities beyond typical retail jobs. Specific policies are noted and analyzed below but Staff
finds the proposed use to be consistent with the future land use designation of MU-Com and C-G.
Table 4: Project Overview
Description Details
History AZ-12-005;PP-12-003;H-2017-0110(FP);H-2020-0074;and DA#2021-
089157
Acreage 1.098
A. Site Development and Use Analysis
The proposed development and use shall conform to the regulations for the location,
design, and development as outlined below.
1. Existing Structures/Site Improvements (UDC 11-1):
The proposed business will be include the new construction of a 6,595 square foot building
(building and covered patio)with fifty (50)parking spaces. This development has been
reviewed through CZC A-2024-0014 and is awaiting approval of the Conditional use Permit.
2. Proposed Use Analysis (UDC 11-2B-2):
The proposed use will be a drinking establishment with outdoor seating and a dog park club.
The club will be open to members and their guests, and will serve as a gathering place for
dog-lovers in the community to have safe, clean fun and to meet one another.A drinking
establishment must be approved through a Conditional Use Permit.
The drinking establishment will operate from LOAM to IOPM daily. The proposed use
complies with the zoning for the site and is subject to specific use standards as listed in 11-4-
3-10.
City of Meridian I Department Report III. Staff Analysis
■
3. Dimensional Standards (UDC 11-2):
The proposed business will be within new construction of a 6,595 square foot building
(building and covered patio)with fifty(50)parking spaces. This development has been
reviewed through CZC A-2024-0014 and is awaiting approval of the Conditional use Permit.
In accordance with the Ten Mile Crossing Design Guidelines, the Ten Mile Crossing Design
Review Board(Board) reviewed and preliminarily approved the building elevations per the
letter dated January 18, 2024.This site complies with the dimensional standards for the C-G
zoning district.
4. Specific Use Standards (UDC 11-4-3-10):
A. The facility shall comply with all Idaho Code regulations regarding the sale,
manufacturing, or distribution of alcoholic beverages.
The proposed drinking establishment shall comply with all Idaho Code regulations.
B. If a drinking establishment or expansion of such use is located within three hundred(300)
feet of a property used for a church or any other place of worship, or any public or private
education institution, it may be allowed with the approval of the decision-making body
set forth in Chapter 5 of this title.
The proposed drinking establishment is over three hundred(300)feet away from the
nearest church located at the corner of Ten Mile and Franklin Road.
C. A drinking establishment shall not be located within one thousand(1,000)feet of an adult
entertainment establishment, as defined in Chapter 1,Article A, "definitions," of this title.
There are no adult entertainment establishments within one thousand(1,000)feet of the
proposed drinking establishment.
D. For properties abutting a residential district,no outside activity or event shall be allowed
on the site,except in accord with Chapter 3,Article E, "temporary use requirements", of
this title.
The property does not abut a residential district, however; there are residential uses
nearby.
E. At a minimum, one(1)parking space shall be provided for every two hundred fifty(250)
square feet of gross floor area.Upon any change of use for an existing building or tenant
space, a detailed parking plan shall be submitted that identifies the available parking for
the overall site that complies with the requirements of this title.
The applicant is proposing to construct a 6,595 square foot drinking establishment which
includes a dog park club (3,548 square foot building, 3,047 square foot covered patio) to
include a beer, wine, and coffee bar. Drinking establishments require a parking space for
every two-hundred and fifty(250)square feet of gross f oor area, the proposed project
requires twenty-six(26)parking spaces. The applicant has proposed to provide fifty(50)
parking spaces with thirty-five(35)spaces being located on their parcel.
Per the Ten Mile Creek Master Declaration of Covenants, Conditions and Restriction
and Reciprocal Easement Agreement 2.1.4, there are non-exclusive easements over and
across those portions of the common area which are from time to time provided for
vehicular parking on each parcel(see Exhibit H).
City of Meridian I Department Report 111. Staff Analysis
■
B. Design Standards Analysis
1. Existing structure and Site Design Standards (Comp Plan 3.07.02A, UDC 11-3A-19):
Require pedestrian circulation plans to ensure safety and convenient access across large
commercial and mixed-use developments.
Buildings shall be designed in accord with the "City of Meridian Architectural Standards
Manual."In accordance with the Ten Mile Crossing Design Guidelines, the Ten Mile
Crossing Design Review Board(Board) reviewed and preliminarily approved the building
elevations per the letter dated January 18, 2024.
Per UDC 11-3A-19 pedestrian walkways shall provide a continuous walkway that is a
minimum of five (5)feet in width from the perimeter sidewalk to the main building
entrance(s)for nonresidential uses.
The applicant has provided a sidewalk in front of the building for pedestrian access from W.
Peak Cloud Land and Franklin Road. Sidewalks have been constructed with the properties
within this commence vertical development. Brighton, will be responsible for the construction
of sidewalks, and will included it within their future development plans for the property south
of W. Peak Cloud and west of Wayfinder Avenue (see Exhibit I). The applicant will be
required to provide a striped pedestrian walkway connection from the south side of W. Peak
Cloud Lane to the property. Prior to construction of the sidewalk on the south side of W.
Peak Cloud Lane, the applicant can install signage stating `pedestrian crossing".
2. Landscaping(UDC 11-3B):
i. Landscape buffers along streets
Per UDC 11-2B-3, landscape buffers along arterial shall be twenty-five (25)feet in
width. There is existing landscaping along W. Franklin Road. The applicant is not
proposing additional landscaping but will be required to protect the existing landscaping
during construction.
The applicant is proposing a ten (10)foot wide landscape buffer along S. Outpost Lane.
ii. Parking lot landscaping
Per UDC 11-3B-8, the applicant shall provide perimeter and internal parking lot
landscaping to soften and mitigate the visual and heat island effect of a large expanse of
asphalt in parking lots, and to improve the safety and comfort of pedestrians. A five-foot
wide minimum landscape buffer adjacent to parking, loading, or other paved vehicular
use areas.
iii. Landscape buffers to adjoining uses
No landscape buffer is required as the project is not adjacent to any residential uses or is
separated by a street.
iv. Storm integration
Per UDC 11-3A-18, an adequate storm drainage system shall be required in all
developments in accord with the city's adopted standards, specifications and ordinances.
Design and construction shall follow Best Management Practice as adopted by the city.
3. Parking(UDC 11-3C):
Drinking establishments requires one parking space for every two hundred and fifty(250)
square feet of gross floor area. The total number of parking spaces required is twenty-six
(26). The applicant has exceeded the number parking spaces required for this proposal.
City of Meridian I Department Report III. Staff Analysis
■
i. Nonresidential parking analysis
Per the Ten Mile Creek Master Declaration of Covenants, Conditions and Restriction
and Reciprocal Easement Agreement 2.1.4, there are non-exclusive easements over and
across those portions of the common area which are from time to time provided for
vehicular parking on each parcel.
ii. Bicycle parking analysis
Per UDC 11-3C-6.G One(1) bicycle parking space shall be provided for every twenty-
five(25)proposed vehicle parking spaces or portion thereof, except for single-family
residences, two-family duplexes, and townhouses. Based on twenty-six parking spaces
being proposed, one(1) bicycle parking space is required.
4. Building Elevations (Comp Plan,Architectural Standards Manual):
In accordance with the Ten Mile Crossing Design Guidelines, the Ten Mile Crossing Design
Review Board(Board) reviewed and preliminarily approved the building elevations per the
letter dated January 18, 2024.
5. Fencing (UDC 11-3A-6, 11-3A-7):
The applicant is proposing to place a six(6)foot wrought iron fence around the perimeter of
the property and enclosed a four(4)foot fence around the outdoor drinking area.
C. Transportation Analysis
The Ada County Highway District (ACHD) reviewed the submitted application and has
determined that there are no improvements required to the adjacent street(s).
1. Access (Comp Plan, UDC 11-3A-3, UDC 11-3H-4):
Access to the property is from S. Outpost which is a driveway via W. Franklin Road
which is a commercial arterial.
2. Multiuse Pathways (UDC 11-3A-5):
Per the Parks Department,pathways are already constructed within this
development. No pathways required with this application.
3. Pathways (Comp Plan 4.04.01A, UDC 11-3A-8):
Ensure that new development and subdivisions connect to the pathway system.
Per the Parks Department,pathways are already constructed within this development. No
pathways required with this application.
4. Sidewalks (UDC 11-3A-17):
The applicant is proposing a six-foot (6)sidewalk along the S. Outpost Lane onto W.
Peak Cloud Lane. The sidewalks have been constructed with these properties
commence vertical development. Brighton, will be responsible for the construction of
the sidewalk, and will included it within our future development plans for the
property south of Peak Cloud and west of Wayfinder Avenue.
5. Private Streets (UDC 11-3F-4):
No new streets are being proposed with this development.
City of Meridian I Department Report III. Staff Analysis
■
D. Services Analysis
All utilities shall meet the requirements of the Comprehensive Plan and UDC sections
identified below.
1. Waterways (Comp Plan 4.05.01 C, UDC 11-3A-6):
Limit canal tiling and piping of creeks, sloughs, laterals, and drains to man-made facilities
where public safety issues cannot be mitigated or are not of concern.
N/A. There are no waterways on the existing property
2. Pressurized Irrigation(UDC 11-3A-15):
The City of Meridian requires that pressurized irrigation systems be supplied by a
year-round source of water (UDC 11-3B-6). The applicant should be required to use
any existing surface or well water for the primary source. If a surface or well source
is not available, a single point connection to the culinary water system shall be
required. If a single point connection is utilized, the developer will be responsible for
the payment of assessments for the common areas prior to prior to receiving
development plan approval.
3. Storm Drainage (UDC 11-3A-18):
The applicant shall design and construct and adequate storm drainage system in
accordance with the city's adopted standards and shall follow Best Management
Practice as adopted by the city.
4. Utilities (Comp Plan 3.03.03A, UDC 11-3A-21):
Ensure development is connected to City of Meridian water and sanitary sewer systems and
the extension to and through said developments are constructed in conformance with the City
of Meridian Water and Sewer System Master Plans in effect at the time of development.
All utilities are available to the site. Water main,fire hydrant and water service
require a twenty foot (20) wide easement that extends ten (10)feet past the end of
main, hydrant, or water meter. No permanent structures, including trees are allowed
inside the easement.
E. Food Trucks
The use of a food truck for this proposal cannot be approved under this conditional use permit as
it is not an allowed use through unified development code. However;the applicant can apply for
a temporary use permit(TUP)through the City Clerk's office for the use of a food truck. Staff is
currently processing a code change to allow food trucks. If approved,the applicant will need to
submit a certificate of zoning compliance for the use of a food truck.
III. CITY/AGENCY COMMENTS & CONDITIONS
A. Meridian Planning Division
1. Future development of this site shall comply with the previous conditions of approval and
terms of AZ-12-005; PP-12-003; H-2017-0110(FP);H-2020-0074; and DA#2021-089157.
2. A Certificate of Zoning Compliance(CZC),A-2024-0014, application has been reviewed and
is subject to approval pending the approval of the Conditional Use Permit.
City of Meridian I Department Report III. City/Agency Comments &Conditions
■
3. Applicant shall comply with the standards as set forth in UDC 11-3A-12 for any outdoor
service and equipment areas.
4. Applicant shall comply with all specific use standards required for a Drinking Establishment
UDC 11-4-3-10.
5. Hours of operation for the proposed drinking establishment drinking establishment shall be
LOAM to IOPM but may be extended to 2AM for-speeial eeeas ons in the indoor area only for
special circumstances.
6. Protect the existing landscaping on the site during construction,per UDC 11-313-10.
7. Provide a striped pedestrian walkway connection from the south side of W. Peak Cloud Lane
that connects to the proposed sidewalk at the front of the building.
8. Add a tree to the landscape planter for the parking lot on the south end of the property near
the building.
9. Apply for a temporary use permit(TUP)through the City Clerk's office for the use of a food
truck. Staff is currently working a modifying the UDC to regulate food trucks. If approved,
the applicant will need to submit a certificate of zoning compliance for the use of a food
truck.
10. The conditional use permit is valid for a maximum period of two(2)years unless otherwise
approved by the City. During this time,the Applicant shall commence the use as permitted in
accord with the conditions of approval, satisfy the requirements set forth in the conditions of
approval,and acquire building permits and commence construction of permanent footings or
structures on or in the ground as set forth in UDC 11-5B-6. A time extension may be
requested as set forth in UDC 11-5B-6F.
B. Meridian Public Works
https:llweblink.meridiancily.orglWebLinkIDocView.aspx?id=342817&dbid=0&repo=MeridianC
hty
C. Nampa&Meridian Irrigation District
https:llweblink.meridiancily.orglWebLinkIDocView.asBx?id=344657&dbid=0&reBo=MeridianC
ity
D. Idaho Department of Environmental Quality(DEQ)
https:llweblink.meridiancily.orglWebLinkIDocView.asBx?id=343054&dbid=0&reBo=MeridianC
RY
E. Ada County Highway District(ACHD)
https:llweblink.meridiancily.orglWebLinkIDocView.asBx?id=345208&dbid=0&reBo=MeridianC
ky
F. Idaho Transportation Department(ITD)
https:llweblink.meridianciU.oL-glWebLinkIDocView.aspx?id=343118&dbid=0&repo=MeridianC
ky
IV. FINDINGS
A. Conditional Use(UDC 11-5B-6E)
The commission shall base its determination on the conditional use permit request upon the
following:
City of Meridian I Department Report IV. Findings
■
1. That the site is large enough to accommodate the proposed use and meet all the dimensional
and development regulations in the district in which the use is located.
Staff finds the site is large enough to accommodate the proposed development and meet all
dimensional and development regulations of the C-G zoning district.
2. That the proposed use will be harmonious with the Meridian comprehensive plan and in
accord with the requirements of this title.
The Comprehensive Plan identifies this as an area where neighborhood-serving uses and
dwellings are seamlessly integrated into the urban fabric. The proposed use of a drinking
establishment is a community-serving commercial use that fits within the future land use
designation of MU-N.
3. That the design, construction, operation and maintenance will be compatible with other uses
in the general neighborhood and with the existing or intended character of the general vicinity
and that such use will not adversely change the essential character of the same area.
Staff finds the design, construction, operation and maintenance of the proposed use will be
compatible with other uses in the general neighborhood, with the existing and intended
character of the vicinity and will not adversely change the essential character of the area.
The applicant is proposing to operate the drinking establishment from 10 AM to 10 PM daily.
4. That the proposed use,if it complies with all conditions of the approval imposed,will not
adversely affect other property in the vicinity.
The hours of operation for the proposed use will be LOAM to IOPM. All outdoor seating and
events associated with this use shall be limited to the fenced in beer garden area other than
the outdoor play area for the dogs.
5. That the proposed use will be served adequately by essential public facilities and services
such as highways, streets, schools,parks,police and fire protection, drainage structures,
refuse disposal,water,and sewer.
The proposed use will be adequately served by all public facilities and services.
6. That the proposed use will not create excessive additional costs for public facilities and
services and will not be detrimental to the economic welfare of the community.
Stafffinds the proposed use will not create any additional costs for public facilities and
services and will not be detrimental to the economic welfare of the community.
7. That the proposed use will not involve activities or processes,materials, equipment and
conditions of operation that will be detrimental to any persons,property or the general
welfare by reason of excessive production of traffic,noise, smoke, fumes, glare or odors.
The proposed project will be located in an area recommended for neighborhood mixed use
which typically includes a mix of commercial and multifamily residential at an arterial
intersection. This location is well-suited for the proposed use as it adds to this lively and
vibrant area.
8. That the proposed use will not result in the destruction, loss or damage of a natural, scenic or
historic feature considered to be of major importance.
Staff finds the proposed use will not result in damage of any such features.
9. Additional findings for the alteration or extension of a nonconforming use:
N/A
City of Meridian I Department Report IV. Findings
■
10. That the proposed nonconforming use does not encourage or set a precedent for additional
nonconforming uses within the area; and,
N/A
11. That the proposed nonconforming use is developed to a similar or greater level of conformity
with the development standards as set forth in this title as compared to the level of
development of the surrounding properties.
N/A
IV. ACTION
A. Staff Recommendation:
Staff. Staff recommends approval of the proposed conditional use permit with the conditions in
Section III per the Findings in Section IV.
B. Commission Decision:
The Meridian Planning&Zoning Commission heard this item on May 2, 2024. At the public
hearing,the Commission moved to approve the subject Conditional Use Permit request.
1. Summary of the Commission public hearing_
a. In favor: Applicant and Michelle Johnson
b. In opposition: None
C. Commenting: Michelle Johnson, Owner of Idaho Pup and Ales
d. Written testimony:None
e. Staff presenting application: Linda Ritter,Associate Planner
f. Other Staff commenting on application: None
2. Key issue(s)of public testimony
a. None
3. Key issue(s)of discussion by Commission:
a. None
4. Commission change(s)to Staff recommendation:
a. Include provision for hours of operation up to 2:00 a.m. in the indoor area on1X
for special circumstances.
City of Meridian I Department Report IV.Action
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C. Service Accessibility Report
PARCEL R84 11 ERVICE ACCESSIBILITY
Overall Sere: 16 39th Percentile
Location In City Limits
Extension Sewer Trunkshed mains < 500 ft.from parcel
Floodplain Either not within the 1OD yr floodplain or > 2 acres
Emergency Services Fire Response time > 9 min.
Emergency Services Police Not enough data to report average response time
Pathways Within 1 J4 mile of current pathways
Transit Within 1 f4 mile of future transit route YELLOW
,arterial Road 6uildout Status Ultimate configuration (#of lanes in master streets
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School Walking Proximity From 112 to 1 mile walking YELLOW
Either a High School or College within 2 mi I e s DR a
School Drivability Middle or Elementary School within 1 mile driving
(existing or future)
Park Walkability No park within walking distance by park type
Report generated an 03-21-2024 by MERIDIAW rt6er
City of Meridian I Department Report V. Exhibits
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G. Floor Plan (date: 12/20/2023)
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H. Parking Exhibit(date: 12/20/2023)
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As you can see from this exhibit,the additional drive aisle and parking lies into the full buildout of the future building(s)along
Wayfinder. The design of the parking is to creale the abil ity to better circulate through the sites,and not always need to go to Beak
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City of Meridian I Department Report V. Exhibits
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Each user within TIVI Creek needs to provide its own parking for the use,which Idaho Pup and Ale can sufficiently park within their lot-
Addilionally,all property owners are subject to a non-exclusive parking easement across all properties,per Section 2.1.4 of the Master
Declaration,which is attached.
City of Meridian I Department Report V. Exhibits
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I. Sidewalk Exhibit(date: 04/11/2024)
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Planning and Zoning Presentations and outline
PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSIONER TRAININGCaleb HoodMay 16, 20241
Agenda• The Differences Between Policy and Code• Meridian’s policies (Comp Plan), codes (UDC) and processes• Defining Density• Comp Plan Density• Transition• Zoning’s role• Private Property Rights (video)• Being a Successful Commission(er) • CD Staff Roles and Responsibilities2
Comprehensive Plan • Largely based on legislation• Broad, long range integrated land use and transportation planning• Master plan (for land uses and services)• Aspirational Elements;• Policies are advisory• Sets direction for zoningZoning • Specific to property• Reflects current conditions• Regulatory• Based on constitution• Implements the PlanPolicy and Implementation 3
4The Difference Between Future Land Use and ZoningThe Comprehensive Plan’s Future Land Use descriptions and map work in tandem with the Plan’s policies to help direct development patterns citywide to achieve the #MyMeridian Vision. They determine the desired character of new development, range of densities allowed, and intensity and mix of uses.The City of Meridian Unified Development Code (UDC) defines a series of zoning districts that are much more specific in terms of allowed uses and other development and operational requirements than future land use designations.The future land use designations help determine what type of zoning new development may receive when a project applies for annexation into the City, or what allowances exist for a property to rezone. However, the future land use designations and zoning districts are not a one-to-one with each other. Some future land use designation descriptions in this chapter include sample zoning. Sample zoning listed does not preclude the use of other zoning districts provided the proposed project is consistent with the description of the land use designation.
Policy Implementation Less Discretion Zoning• Sets framework for development• First regulatory step Use permit • Creates the way for property to be bought and sold• Ensures adequate public facilities and buildable area Subdivision• Allow for review of certain uses that may have impacts on surrounding uses Site and design plans • Ensures compliance with that specific development standards 5
Private Property Rights6LLUPA Requirement of Comp Plan (Chapter 3; Appendix C – Regulatory Takings Analysis; Existing Conditions Report)Private property rights balance – who’s property and who’s right?Subjective – “Sensible”, “Value”, “Good” –Health, Safety and Wellfare (Police Powers)What/Who are we protecting? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ5XfpGgKZo
Defining Residential Density• Number of units per acre (DU/AC)• Net vs. Gross• “Density” in Comp Plan vs UDC • Architectural and Site Design Standards – Context, services and neighborhood character– Transition and edges – Integration• Today and future considerations (redevelopment)7
Characteristics of a Successful Commissioner•Interest in land use planning•Time to dedicate•Few conflicts•Ability to speak clearly and concisely•Knowledge•Ability to Listen•Objectivity•Ability to make collective decisions 8
Knowledge Idaho Local Land Use Planning Act Comprehensive Plan Zoning and subdivision code The language of planning Legal requirements: due process, equal protection, property rights, conflict of interest, open meetings, ex parte communication Parliamentary procedures; P&Z Rules of Procedures; Robert’s Rules Group dynamics: discussion, asking questions, consensus-building decision-making. 9
ListeningSensitivity to the public’s perspectives.Hearing all the sides of an issue with equal attention. Not making judgments before all have been heard. Watch your non-verbal clues10
Do's and Don'ts of Non-verbal CuesDon'ts Slouching/leaning back Chatting with colleagues Drumming your fingers Nose in the notesDo’sRefer to testimony Refer by name Look ‘emin the eye Nod affirmatively11
Objectivity•Keep the faith with the code and the Comp Plan.•Not swayed by public pressure.•Keeping personal bias out.•Avoiding the slippery slope of irrelevant information. •Fair and impartial in decisions. 12
Collective Decision-making•Respectful and courteous. •Listen. •Do not air personal grievances in public. •No surprises. (Contact Staff prior if needed)•Monitor your “air time”.13
The Art of Asking QuestionsAsking of staff■What other alternative/conditions did you consider?■What are we trying to accomplish with this requirement/code/policy/regulation? ■What has been the precedent on this type of request?■Will you explain the process followed on this application?■What feedback have you received from the residents? ■Does the applicant support the recommendations?Asking of the Applicant■What are your objectives? ■Can you offer other suggestions/conditions/project changes in response to the issues raised?■Do you support the conditions/recommendations? 14
The Art of Asking QuestionsAsking of the Public■How will this proposal affect you? ■What are your concerns?■Do you support the proposed conditions?■What other changes/conditions can you suggest?Asking of Colleagues■What is your opinion about this item?■What do think this action will accomplish? ■Would you please elaborate on your position?15
Decision-making1.During the hearing Active listening Take notes Ask meaningful questions2.During the Commission Discussion Participate Do not poll- work toward consensus-not full agreement. Express disagreement – silence means consent. Ask for clarification Monitor “air time”. Remember the record It is Commission Discussion-not a dialogue with staff or the public. 16
3.Making MotionsStaff prepares “sample” motions in staff reportFollow parliamentary proceduresSpeak clearly and conciselyStay on the subjectState motion affirmatively, “I move that we….”One motion at a time. Decision-making17
Traps to AvoidScatterbrainstorming-one idea is followed by another without resolution until one is found the group likes. Looking to authority-the planner, the chair, the attorney. Railroading-one group or individual forces the issue before others are ready. Paralysis-be honest about the reason for delay Decision-making18
Ten Commandments of Good Quasi-judicial Decision-making1. Follow the Code2. Avoid politics3. Be politically correct and dignified4. Consider all the evidence5. Make a good record6. Make written findings and conclusions7. Support the decision with real evidence8. Impose only lawful conditions9. Do not invade the province of staff10. Think like a judge, act like a judge and decide like a judge. 19
Rules for Finding of Fact, Conclusion of Law, Conditions and DecisionFindings of Fact /Conclusions Understand the code requirementsIdentify facts relevant to the code; disregard what is not relevant to your code regulations. Link the facts to conclusions of lawConclusions must be supported by the findings of fact. Conditions and Decision ConditionsConnect to time or actionAvoid the grocery list approach Nexus and proportionateDecision must be supported by the findings, conclusions, and conditions
ResourcesCity Website –www.meridiancity.orgAssociation of Idaho Cities-www.idahocities.orgAmerican Planning Association (APA)-www. planning.org American Planning Association Idaho Chapter -http://idahoapa.orgTraining Video LibraryKnowledge CenterConferences and EventsPolicy Guides / Legislation21
CD-Planning Team Members208-884-5533Bruce Freckleton – Department DirectorCaleb Hood – Deputy DirectorBill Parsons – Planning Supervisor (Current)Sonya Allen – Associate Planner (Current)Stacy Hersch – Associate Planner (Current)Linda Ritter – Associate Planner (Current)Brian McClure – Planning Supervisor (Long Range)Hether Hill – Associate Coordination Planner (Long Range)Nick Napoli – Assistant Planner (Current)Mike Grigoryev – Assistant Planner (Current) Angie Mangione – Admin II (CD)