HomeMy WebLinkAbout2006 05-16
Meridian City Council Meetinq
May 16. 2006
The regular meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:30 P.M.,
Tuesday, May 16, 2006, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present Mayor Tammy de Weerd, Keith Bird, Charlie Rountree, Shaun
Wardle, and Joe Borton.
Others Present Bill Nary, Will Berg, Anna Canning, Bob Stowe, Kenny Bowers, Len
Grady, Stacy Kilchenmann, and Dean Willis.
Item 1:
Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X Shaun Wardle
X Charlie Rountree
X
X Joe Borton
X Keith Bird
Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: Okay. I will go ahead and call this meeting to order. Good evening. It is
Tuesday, May 16th. It is 7:30. We apologize for the late start. I will begin with roll call
attendance. Mr. Berg.
Item 2:
Pledge of Allegiance:
De Weerd: Item 2 is the pledge of allegiance. Tonight we will be led by Sidney
Edwards. If you will all rise.
(Pledge of allegiance recited.)
Item 3:
Community Invocation by Pastor Fred Thompson, with Meridian
Assembly of God:
De Weerd: Sidney, I'd like to present you with a pin for the City of Meridian for leading
us tonight. Thank you. Okay. Item NO.3 is the community invocation. Tonight we will
be led by Pastor Fred Thompson. He is with the Meridian Assembly of God Church.
Welcome. If you will all join us in the community invocation or take this as an
opportunity for a moment of silence.
Thompson: Heavenly Father, we ask that you grant the leaders of our growing city the
wisdom and courage to process the business before them in a way that glorifies your
name. Give each Council Member a sense of the right way to vote on issues. On
difficult decisions grant your special insight and wisdom. We are aware that in the
Christian Bible James wrote if any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God who gives
generously to all without finding fault and it will be given to him. On simpler decisions,
Lord, grant your peace. Thank you, Lord, for wisdom that comes from heaven, which
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May 16, 2006
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is, first of all, pure, then, peace loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good
fruits, impartial and sincere. These things we ask in Jesus' name, amen.
De Weerd: Pastor, I'd like to thank you for joining us and I have a pin for you, too.
Thank you. I don't know, I guess I should ask Council if they had a little bit longer in
prayer, because nothing is simple.
Bird: We can always use all we can get.
Item 4:
Adoption of the Agenda:
De Weerd: I know. We appreciate your invocation and, again, welcome. Council, No.
4 is adoption of the agenda.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: j move that we approve the agenda as published and that would include Item 20,
which is Ordinance No. 06-1232. Approve the adoption of it.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. Councilmember Bird, we did have a request to pull G from the
Consent Agenda, so 5-G.
Bird: Yeah.
De Weerd: Mr. Bird, do you want that noted in your motion or do you want it under
Consent?
Bird: [was just going to do it when I did the Consent Agenda.
De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to approve the adoption of the agenda as presented.
All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 5:
Consent Agenda:
A. Approve Minutes of April 18, 2006 City Council Regular Meeting:
B. Sewer Reimbursement Aqreement with Strada Bellissima,
LLC:
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May 16,2006
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C. Aqreement for Installation of Electrical and Controls for WWTP
Entrance Gate by Custom Electric:
D. Development Agreement: RZ 04-011 Request for a Rezone of
9.16 acres from R-8 to C-C zone for Cairns Crossinq Subdivision
by Landmark Engineering and Planning, Inc. - south of West
Cherry Lane and east of Under Road:
E. SHP 05-001: Request for Short Plat Approval of ConQlomerate
Consisting of 4 Commercial Building Lots on 4.276 Acres in a
C-G zone by Afton Pacific, LLC:
F. SHP 06-003: Request for Short Plat Approval of Quenzer
Commons Condominiums No.2 Consisting of 16
Condominium Units on 4 parcels of Ground on 2.12 Acres in a
C-N zone by Brighton Commercial, Inc.:
H. Chanqe Order No. 1 for the Landinq Lift Station Proiect with
JUB Engineers, Inc.:
I. Approve Beer and Wine License Renewal for ChinaTown's
Quik-Wok Restaurant at 3055 E. Fairview Avenue Ste. 200:
J. Contract for DesiQn of Ten Mile Diversion Sewer Phase 2 with
JUS Engineers, Inc.:
De Weerd: Item 5 is the Consent Agenda.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: That's been requested to pull Item G off the agenda completely, as things are not
ready. And with that I move we approved the revised agenda and for the Mayor to sign
and the Clerk to attest on all papers.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to approve the Consent Agenda as amended. Mr.
Berg, will you, please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 6:
Department Reports:
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May 16.2006
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A. Finance Department - Stacy Kilchenmann
1. Quarterly Financial Statement:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 6-A, our finance department. Stacy.
Kilchenmann: Good evening. I will be quick. I'm not going to spend -- unless there is
specific questions -- so, the quarter actually ended in March and we are already in May,
but unless there is specific questions, I'm not going to talk about the statements
themselves. What I want to do is just update you a little bit on the budget process and
where we are. We -- all the departments have turned in their enhancement requests
and we have compiled lists of those on the summaries. We are done compiling the
base budget and I just put in front of you the revenue manual for FY-07 in the back --
right in the back you should have the details. I want to really -- I'm going to talk just a
little bit about some things that we are going to need to pay some attention to in this
year's budget process. One of them is the Enterprise Fund revenue is shrinking in
comparison to the cost, so we have spent a week with the Public Works department --
well, it's been two days, but it seems like a week. Kind of grueling over this and they
have substantially changed the enhancements they are requesting and we are looking
at the details to try to figure out where in the revenue structure we need to make some
changes. It's been an evolving process. One of the things that's happened in the last
couple years is that we started -- before Enterprise Fund revenue was always taken as
a total and compared to the total expenses and Brad, which rightly so, thought that that
wasn't necessarily representative. So, in 2002 when he redid the fee structure, we
separated out operations which is funded by the fees we charge for water and sewer
usage, and connect the construction, which is funded by the connection fees, when
somebody builds a new home and connects to water and sewer. So, we have kind of
gone back and reconstructed what that would be in the past if we had done it that way.
And there is a couple of things that have happened on the usage fee side. One is that
we have started charging them -- or in the last few years we charge them overhead for
Public Works and we also charge a part of the General Fund. Are you guys passing
notes?
De Weerd: Yes.
Bird: Yes.
Kilchenmann: Do you want to read them to the class? So, I kind of did a worksheet --
Bird: He's the go between.
Kilchenmann: Okay. All right. He's the middle man.
Rountree: Do you want me to read it?
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Kilchenmann: No. I did a worksheet that you can look at that just shows how the
indirect costs have increased. So, we will probably need to go back to the base fee we
charge to cover the indirect costs and increase that. And, then, I did a comparison of
the direct costs, which would be the costs of like the water meters and so forth, just the
costs unique to the plant themselves and, then, on the revenue side there are a lot of
other factors in there. I just picked out the revenue -- usage revenue itself, but, in
reality, we have interest and we have -- we have had latecomers fees in the past and
we have third-party billing fees and miscellaneous fees. So, when we sit down and do
the budget this year, we will need to be making some decisions about what we are
going to do with the fees, how soon we are going to do it. We will have to look at those
General Fund transfers we make. So, it's going to be a little tougher than it has been in
the past. I'm just forewarning you. Although Brad's done a lot of work to cut it down.
On the General Fund side, just -- I will just go back to the current year for the quarter.
We are ahead of revenue, just because the sales tax revenue has been strong in Idaho
and that -- probably there is no indication that won't continue throughout the year. And,
then, our interest is a little higher. Surprisingly, we are getting the highest interest rates
from our checking account, because interest -- short-term interest is so high. So, if
anybody is so interested and they look at our investment portfolio and see a lot of
money in cash, which is not something we should do, and that's why. So, are there any
questions?
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Bird: That's a great job again, Stacy.
Kilchenmann: So, let me know if anyone has questions on the revenue manual as
suggestions or if you find some hidden revenue that I overlooked or--
De Weerd: I hope J do.
Kilchenmann: I hope so, too. Thank you.
B. Mayor's Office
1. Request for Approval to Negotiate Contract for
Construction Manager & Architect:
De Weerd: Okay. Council, Item 6-B under number one, the request for approval to
negotiate contract for the construction manager and architect. In front of you are the
recommendations from our selection committee for construction management. The
selected firm was Petra General Contractors and in the architectural services it was
Lombard Conrad Architects. These are names that the committees have -- the
committee has brought forward and the next step is to enter into negotiations. I would
need Council approval for us to move into that stage. We do have representatives from
Lombard Conrad, Russ Moorhead. And for Petra is Jerry Frank and Michael Nye. If
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May 16,2006
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you would stand up, gentlemen? So, we appreciate you joining us this evening. Thank
you.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would move that we have our negotiation team move in to negotiate with
Lombard Conrad Architects and Petra Construction for Architectural and Construction
Management of the new City Hall.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. Discussion? Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Madam Mayor, just for the public, could you briefly outline the committee's task
and their meetings and how they came at this decision and any things that might have
the public record after that.
De Weerd: Yes. Thank you, Mr. Wardle. We put out bid for Construction Manager and
Architect services for a new City Hall project. That went out in March, I believe. We did
meet once with our committee. At that time we had approximately -- and this is off the
top of my head, so -- about 13 members. We did a review of the applications for
construction managers. We had ten bids or RFQs, proposals, and seven in our
architectural services. Then we rated those through the documents that were submitted
and selected the top three. Those top three were, then, interviewed by a slightly smaller
committee, because not everyone could be there on that day, and the ratings are there
in front of you and the two names I'm bringing to you this evening to move forward with
are Petra and LCA. Was that a brief enough synopsis?
Wardle: Thank you, Madam Mayor. I have certainly read through the proposals and
just wanted to -- for those that weren't involved in the process to understand that we had
a very open process with the committee and that had come at this through all of our
policies and procedures and arrived at these top two candidates, so --
De Weerd: Thank you. Mr. Berg, as well as Mr. Baird, they helped shepherd us
through this process to make sure that all the I's were dotted and T's were crossed, to
make sure it was fair. We did record the interviews for any consideration by Council, if
you wanted to listen to those, and so it was a very open and transparent process.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I just wanted to extend my thanks to city staff and the elected officials that
participated, as well as the citizens that participated in the committee. Going through 17
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May 16, 2006
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proposals is no easy task and trying to evaluate them and come out with what's
perceived as and what actually is a fair and unbiased selection is tough work and I
appreciate your effort and looking forward to a new City Hall that is a fruit of their efforts.
De Weerd: Well, we are very pleased to bring these names in front of you tonight. I
can tell you in our top three in both categories the city definitely couldn't have gone
wrong, but I can also say that the selected firms showed energy and excitement and we
look forward to working together with them. If there is no further discussion, Mr. Berg,
will you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
2. Committee Appointments:
De Weerd: Thank you. And thank you, gentleman. You will be getting a call I think at
8:00 o'clock a.m. tomorrow to set a date. The next item is committee appointments.
This will be the negotiation team. Council, I would ask your approval of the appointment
of the negotiating team, which is Will Berg, Keith Bird, Ted Baird, and myself. So, I
would like your approval by a motion.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we approve the committee as stated by the Mayor for selection --
or for negotiation of the agreement and contracts for the new City Hall.
Wardle: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. Motion to approve the committee as appointed. These will be
coming back in front of you for your final consideration. Mr. Berg, will you, please, call
roll on that.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 7:
Items Moved from Consent Agenda:
De Weerd: Okay. There were no items moved from the Consent Agenda.
Item 8:
Update Report on the Appeal Hearinq for Order to Remove Junk
Vehicle bv Steven Cady with Meridian Cherry Lane Mobile Home
Park:
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May 16, 2006
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Item 9:
Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Order to Remove Junk
Vehicle by Steven Cady with Meridian Cherry Lane Mobile Home
Park:
De Weerd: Item 8 is an update report. Mr. Nary or Ueutenant Stowe, who is -- Mr.
Nary.
Nary: Madam Mayor. Thank you, Madam Mayor. I have had some numerous updates
from the code enforcement division since last week's hearing -- appeal hearing on Mr.
Cady's case. There are Findings in your packets. According to Mr. Venneman from
code enforcement, both at the end of last week, as well as today, he was able to verify
that there are no more vehicles or junk property that are now out of -- that are out of
compliance on this property. They are now in full compliance with the city code. The
Findings, the only recommendation -- or only addition I would have is the Findings
reflect the property at 224 West Cherry Lane, but this is, actually, the -- or, excuse me,
424 West Cherry Lane. It's actually property next door, it's 314 West Cherry Lane. And
so Mr. Berg can make that amendment, if that's included in your motion, but the
Findings are ready for your approval.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Nary. Any questions from Council? Okay. If not, I would
need a motion.
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: I would move we approve Item No.8, Findings of Facts and Conclusions of
Law and order to remove junk vehicles by Steve Cady and amend that to 314 West
Cherry Lane, Meridian Cherry Lane Mobile Home Park.
Borton: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. You have heard the motion. We do have a second. Is there any
discussion? Okay. Hearing none, Mr. Berg.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, we do have a note from our Planning Director on Cabella
Creek. Cabella Creek is not on our agenda tonight. If you're here for that application, it
was posted on the property that the hearing would be this evening and it's not on our
published agenda. Is there anyone here to hear that application? Well, good. We are
glad that no one was misinformed.
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May 16, 2006
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De Weerd: Okay. Item 9 is Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law -- we just did.
I'm sorry. Request for waiver. I will ask Mr. Nary to introduce this one.
Item 10:
Request for a Waiver of the First Year Lease Payment Obliqation
Pursuant to the Lease Aqreement for Lakeview Meridian Golf Club:
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I do need to recuse myself from Items 10 and 11.
De Weerd: Okay.
Borton: So, I'll sit quietly.
De Weerd: You're leaving the room, then?
Borton: Yes.
De Weerd: It's the only way I know of to keep an attorney quiet. Okay.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Nary: On Item 10, the lessees of the Lakeview Meridian Golf Club have made a request
to you for the waiver of the first year lease payment obligation pursuant to their lease
agreement. This is not a specific condition in their lease, but it was discussed at the
time this new [ease was entered into with the operators, that they could come back each
year to request the city, based on the number of improvements and the amount of
improvements and the cost of those improvements, whether the city would be willing to
waive the requirement to pay the annual fee to the city. The current fee under the
contract is 6,000 dollars. I see Mr. Davis in the audience. I don't know if he has more
information than what was provided in your letter.
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Davis, do you have anything to add to what was in your letter?
Davis: Not really.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, do you have any further information that you have need for
or do you have any questions for Mr. Davis?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
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May 16, 2006
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Bird: I don't hear anybody jumping up to talk, so I move that we approve the waiver of
'06's lease payment as stated in the redoing of the lease that -- for each hole he did was
worth 2,000 dollars. He's done three holes. So, that's 6,000 dollars and that's our
year's deal.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second. Any discussion?
Wardle: Madam Mayor, I would just like to point out that -- and I mean we had a
presentation by Dick Davis and Eric Oaas as to the state of the golf course and the
improvements they have made this year and certainly feel that that justifies this
amendment.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Mr. Berg, will you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Borton, absent.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 11:
Approve Aqreement with R.R. Davis Properties. Inc., Lakeview
Meridian Investors, LLC and Idaho Independent Bank to grant
security interest in Lease for Lakeview Golf Course:
De Weerd: Thank you. Item 11. Mr. Nary.
Nary: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Item 11 is an agreement
with Mr. Davis and the Lakeview Meridian Investors, LLC, and Idaho Independent Bank.
I have an agreement prepared by Mr. Freeman, Council for Independent Bank. It has
not been signed by all of the parties at this point, but what the gist of it is, there was
already an existing agreement with the prior vendors of previously Cherry Lane Golf
Course. This is to substitute Mr. Davis into that particular financial arrangement. The
city's property -- and Mr. Madison is here from Idaho Independent Bank if I misstate this,
but the way I understand this agreement, as well as the prior, the city's ground is not
obligated in this agreement, nor is the city indemnifying this agreement. The city has
the ability to purchase the improvements on the ground if a foreclosure were to occur,
but they are not obligated to do that. So, all it is is it's the original agreement that the
city had previously entered into with Cherry Lane Golf Course. It now substitutes the
new vendor of Mr. Davis and the Lakeview Meridian Investors, LLC, into their place with
the same basic terms and conditions. They do want -- there is some time sensitivity to
getting this completed, so if the Council is of a mind to approve this, what I would
recommend is that you authorize the Mayor to sign and attest after the other parties
have attested to this agreement and, then, therefore, they can get it done probably
before your next Council meeting, if that's acceptable to you. Did [ get that right, Mr.
Madison? That's the way I read it, so --
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May 16,2006
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De Weerd: Okay. Council?
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: I move that we approve Item No. 11, agreement with R.R. Davis Properties,
the Lakeview Meridian Investors, LLC, and Idaho Independent Bank and to direct the
Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest after other property owners have also signed and
attested.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. There is a motion and a second. Any discussion? Mr. Berg.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Borton, absent.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 12:
FP 06-020 Request for Final Plat approval for 12 single-family residential
building lots and 1 common lot on 5.47 acres in an R-8 zone for Quenzer
Commons Subdivision No. 10 by Brighton Development, Inc. - west of
Locust Grove Road and north of Ustick Road:
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Okay. Council, Item No. 12 is FP 06-020. I see that
there -- the applicant has agreed with all staff recommendations, so I would entertain a
motion.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve FP 06-020.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. Motion to approve Item 12. Is there any discussion? Mr. Berg, roll
call.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 13:
Continued Public Hearing from May 9, 2006: AZ 06-003 Annexation
and Zoning of 24.03 acres from RUT to R-8 (12.31 acres), R-15 (8.04
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May 16, 2006
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acres) and C-C (3.68 acres) for Hiqhtower Subdivision by Hightower,
LLC - southwest corner of Chinden Boulevard and Jericho Road:
Item 14:
Continued Public Hearing from May 9, 2006: PP 06-003 Preliminary
Plat approval of 106 residential lots, 4 commercial lots, 2 private street lots
and 25 common lots on 22.94 acres in proposed R-8, R-15 and C-C zones
for Hiqhtower Subdivision by Hightower, LLC - southwest corner of
Chinden Boulevard and Jericho Road:
Item 15:
Continued Public Hearing from May 9, 2006: CUP 06-004 Request for
a Conditional Use Permit for a Mixed Use Planned Development that
includes single-family detached, townhouse units, commercial uses,
private streets, a neighborhood park and a vehicular access to Chinden
Boulevard for Hiqhtower Subdivision by Hightower, LLC - southwest
corner of Chinden Boulevard and Jericho Road:
De Weerd: Thank you. Items 13,14 and 15 are continued from May 9th. Anna.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is a continued public item. The
applicant provided a new disk to me to put in the computer and the computer has eaten
that disk and now I can't get my computer to work at all. So, I'm at a bit of a
disadvantage. The applicant is definitely at a advantage. I don't have anything. Can I
have five minutes to just -- or a couple minutes to continue working on this? It's not
good.
De Weerd: Yes. I apologize to all of those that are in the audience, but we will take a
five minute recess.
(Recess.)
De Weerd: Okay. I'll go ahead and call this meeting to order again. It looks like we
have things up and going. Anna.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, thank you. And thanks to the city
engineer for his kind assistance. This is the Hightower project. This was continued last
week for information from the Idaho Transportation Department on the required right of
way. We are breaking this hearing up to consider annexation and zoning, preliminary
plat, conditional use, and private streets at this time and, then, we will discuss the
variance in a little while. The outstanding issues before Council were -- there was one
going into the previous hearing and you have had a presentation from staff, so I'm just
going to go back to why the issue was tabled for a week. The outstanding issue going
into the last hearing was some flag lots. This one in particular, the townhomes, and that
-- at that hearing the applicant did agree that these two units would be removed and that
these flags would become ten feet in width as required by code. Then there was the
question of whether the appropriate right of way width was 70 feet or 100 feet and we
did coordinate with both Sue Sullivan and Kevin Sublon of Idaho Transportation
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Department and they are asking for 70 feet in this location. And, then, finally -- I'm not
going to discuss the variance, but when we get to the variance application, one of the
recommendations from staff is that we add a condition of approval into the development
agreement. So, we asked that you not take action on the annexation until the variance
item is heard. So, this may get a little confusing, but I think what needs to happen is
that you can go ahead and hold the Public Hearing, you could probably close the Public
Hearing on the preliminary plat and the Conditional Use Permit if you would like, but,
then, we ask that you continue those items for their final decision until after you hear the
variance and then -- but you can't make a decision on the variance until you have
approved the annexation. So, Bill may be able to explain that a little better than I just
did. Which ever way you do it it gets rather confusing, but -- so we do ask that you
consider that before you close all the public hearings on these items. And with that the
applicant does have his presentation for you from last week and they got into some of
the issues last week, but did not give a full overview of the project, so they would like to
do that. I'll answer any questions you may have right now.
De Weerd: Thank you, Anna. Any questions, Council? Thank you. The applicant. If
you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
Hull: I will. Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. My name is Phil Hull
with the Land Group, 462 East Shore Drive, Eagle, Idaho. 83616.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Hull: Since we went over most of the presentation at the City Council meeting last
week, I will keep this kind of brief and run through these slides real quickly. Just to
remind everyone, our site is located right here between Locust Grove and Meridian
Road and there is a neighborhood center designation on the Comp Plan at that location.
So, we are proposing a mixed use development with three commercial lots up front and
some R-15 zoning behind it, feathering back into R-8, as it feathers back into the
Saguaro Canyon project. This slide shows buffer areas up front along Chinden with
sidewalk, which we confirmed at the last meeting it was going to be ten feet, instead of
the five feet that we were showing. We have got buffer areas along Jericho here as
well. We have got a sound -- sound wall in front of the townhome area there. And the
layout of the commercial area, we broke that up into smaller -- smaller buildings to kind
of get away from the strip mall look and make it more of a neighborhood center feel,
with -- just make it more walkable with plaza spaces at each entrance and separated
sidewalks and whatnot, so you flow through all the way through it and cut down on --
basically cut down on vehicle trips, trying to attract the neighbors within this area into
that commercial area. As you go back into the single family residential area, we have a
couple of different product types back there. In the central area here around the park
site, a one acre park site here, we have homes that back up onto that park site that are
alley loaded and on the opposite side of the alley we have homes with the front porches
up on the streetscape there. Throughout development we have separated sidewalks
with an eight foot planter strip with a five foot walk, with street trees on all the lot lines.
And, again, that park site in the center has multiple amenities, such as a gazebo, tot lot,
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May 16, 2006
Page 14 of 57
open space play area, barbecue pits, that sort of thing, that provides recreation for the
residents. And, again, as staff mentioned, we also agreed to remove these two
townhomes to create a park site here, so that these homes would front on that and have
a much nicer view, as opposed to looking at the sides of some homes. And that's
located here on the site plan, identical to what we are proposing on the north side here.
And with that I'll stand for questions.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Any questions, Council?
Bird: I don't have any at this time.
De Weerd: Okay.
Hull: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. This is a Public Hearing. Is there any members of the public who
would like to provide testimony on this application? Okay. Hearing none, Anna, do I
remember from last week that -- was there not a question about the amount of right of
way for Chinden? Was this --
Canning: Yes, ma'am. There was conflicting letters. One said 70, one said 100, but
we verified that, indeed, they are looking for 70. The 100 was made as a generalized
statement and was not site specific. At this location, because of the other constraints
along Chinden, they are only looking for 70 feet of right of way.
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Madam Mayor, Mr. Nary, I have a procedural question. Anna addressed just
briefly. Do we need to close these public hearings and, then, potentially reopen the
annexation after hearing the variance or do we need to continue them until after the --
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilmember Wardle, General Henry
Robert could not probably figure this out any easier than we have. What we think is the
most appropriate way to handle this matter is to continue -- and what Mrs. Canning
suggested is the preliminary plat and the CUP are probably not in play here, but for the
sense of ease, if you continue all three of these matters, you can hear the variance,
make decisions -- if the variance is going to be granted, to, then, include those
conditions into the annexation conditions -- or the development agreement and, then,
close your Public Hearing on your variance, go back to your other matters, finish those,
and, then, go back to your variance. Courts are real picky about the specificity and
order that you do these things, but to hear them to make some sense out of that is what
we are hoping to accomplish, so that there isn't a final decision made on the annexation
until you have all the information you need in front of you, but then -- and not a final
decision on the variance until you have actually approved to annex the property. Those
are the two things we are trying to accomplish here and I think this is probably the best
way we can do it.
Meridian City Council
May 16, 2006
Page 15of57
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Nary.
Nary: That was the short answer.
De Weerd: Well, I'm glad you didn't give us the long version.
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: With that I would move that we continue Items 13, 14, and 15.
Bird: I would second it.
De Weerd: Okay. There is a motion to continue Items 13 through 15 to after 16. All
those in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 16:
Continue Public Hearing from May 9,2006: VAR 06-004 Request for a
Variance to construct an access to Chinden Boulevard, a State Highway,
for Hiqhtower Subdivision by Hightower, LLC - southwest corner of
Chinden Boulevard and Jericho Road:
De Weerd: And now, Mr. Rountree, we will see you later.
Rountree: I would recuse myself for Item 16.
De Weerd: Okay. I will go ahead and open Item 16, continued Public Hearing from
May 9th, V AR 06-004, with Anna's comments.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, on the -- I'm sorry, for some reason I
didn't -- I was on the wrong presentation. That was what confused me. Madam Mayor,
Members of the Council, on this variance request associated with Hightower, they are
proposing one new approach to Chinden Boulevard and that was evident on the
preliminary plat site plan. So, you will notice that this does align with the road across
the street on Chinden. You will also notice Jericho Road just east of this property. If
you look at the vicinity map, the half mile mark is over here. So, we are just a little bit
off of the half mile mark. However, this entrance, as noted before, does line up. We
started talking to ITD about this quite awhile ago and with the north Meridian plan we
worked with Sue Sullivan at ITD to determine that this, actually, would be the best
location for the half mile collector system. So, what they have proposed is, indeed, a
collector through to at least this point. So, it begins as a collector and, then, it will
continue down into Saguaro Canyon. And you will see how it lines up with the street
network in Saguaro. So, this will provide access for all of Saguaro Canyon and, then,
Meridian City Council
May 16, 2006
Page 16 of 57
the subdivision to the west of there, as well as Arcadia and we have got a little bit of
Reserve Subdivision here. So, with ITD's acceptance of this as the half mile location,
staff has recommended approval of this variance, based solely on ITD's support of that
project. Now, the original letter from Kevin Sublon asked the Council to condition the --
condition the variance with Jericho Road being closed and I will go back to that site
plan, so you can see Jericho Road. They wanted the Council to condition that this
needed to be closed before you granted the variance. Well, staff had concerns about
tying those two things together, because ACHD is the -- has final approval over whether
that road is closed or not. So, yesterday Sue Sullivan and Kevin Sublon from ITD, as
well as Steve Siddoway and Lori Den Hartog from ACHD, all met and what they
discussed and consentually agreed to is that the most appropriate recommendation as
far as staff was concerned, that regardless of whether Jericho is closed or not, the
appropriate location for the half mile collector and future fight is this location here that is
being proposed by the applicant. What they have suggested -- and, I'm sorry, Mr. Hull
was at that meeting also and he's also agreed to this -- that prior to a final plat being
submitted anywhere on this subdivision, that the applicant file an application with the
city to vacate this right of way. It would just be from Chinden to this connecting road
here. So, it would be the small portion of Jericho. That they file that with the city and
with ACHD. And, then, alj the respective agencies can consider that vacating that piece
of property at that time, but they will -- they have consented that that would be an
appropriate thing to do in the -- because I won't go into that discussion until a future
date, but -- so just to -- just to reiterate, though, it wouldn't -- the plat wouldn't
necessarily be continued on achieving that vacation, it was just that they submit those
two applications -- or vacation requests. So, with that that really summarizes the main
issue with this one and I can answer any questions you may have.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, do you have any questions?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Anna, if I understand you right -- and this is just -- they want to add to the
development agreement when we approve the annexation and zoning, if we do, that the
owner consents to the vacation of Jericho Road and that before they get the final plat
application, they will have a vacation or exchange of right of way for Jericho Road to the
City of Meridian and to Ada County Highway District; am I not right?
Canning: Yes. That they will submit those applications. They may not be processed,
but they will submit complete applications.
Bird: Okay.
De Weerd: Okay.
Bird: Thank you.
Meridian City Council
May 16, 2006
Page 17 of 57
De Weerd: Any other questions for staff? Would the applicant have anything to add? If
you will, again, state your name and address for the record.
Hull: Yes, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Phil Hull with the Land Group, 462
East Shore Drive, Suite 100, Eagle, Idaho. 83616.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Hull: Just a couple of quick comments about the variance application. It has been a
long road to get to this point, so I will agree upon this one location for the mid mile entry.
Many meetings with ITD staff, Compass staff, Patricia Nelson and, of course, the city
staff with Steve Siddoway and Anna and whatnot and ACHD, Lori Den Hartog, and --
and it's been quite a process for everyone to agree on this one location. So, I think we
have come a long way and I'm hoping that everybody can see the merits in having it at
this point.
De Weerd: Great. Well, we appreciate you working with all the agencies on that.
Hull: Yeah.
De Weerd: Council, any questions for the applicant? Okay. Thank you.
Hull: Thank you.
De Weerd: Is there any public testimony on this application? Okay. Seeing none.
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: I'll do the procedural work and Mr. Bird will do the motion. I move that we -- or
hearing no further testimony, I move that we continue Item 16.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It has been moved to continue Item 16 to hear them after 13, 14, and
15. Okay. All those in favor say aye. Okay. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 13:
Continued Public Hearing from May 9, 2006: AZ 06-003 Annexation
and Zoning of 24.03 acres from RUT to R-8 (12.31 acres), R-15 (8.04
acres) and C-C (3.68 acres) for HiQhtower Subdivision by Hightower,
LLC - southwest corner of Chinden Boulevard and Jericho Road:
Meridian City Council
May 16, 2006
Page 18 of 57
Item 14:
Continued Public Hearing from May 9, 2006: PP 06-003 Preliminary
Plat approval of 106 residential lots, 4 commercial lots, 2 private street lots
and 25 common lots on 22.94 acres in proposed R-8, R-15 and C-C zones
for Hiqhtower Subdivision by Hightower, LLC - southwest corner of
Chinden Boulevard and Jericho Road:
Item 15:
Continued Public Hearing from May 9, 2006: CUP 06-004 Request for
a Conditional Use Permit for a Mixed Use Planned Development that
includes single-family detached, townhouse units, commercial uses,
private streets, a neighborhood park and a vehicular access to Chinden
Boulevard for Hiqhtower Subdivision by Hightower, LLC - southwest
corner of Chinden Boulevard and Jericho Road:
Wardle: Madam Mayor, with that I would move that we reopen the public hearings on
Items 13, 14, and 15.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: I don't -- I don't necessarily need a motion. I had just--
Canning: I don't think you closed them.
De Weerd: No, we didn't. Okay. So, we will now consider Items 13 through 15.
Council, do you need further information or have any questions for either the applicant
or staff at this time?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Again, I will ask if there is any additional public testimony. Seeing none, I
would entertain a motion to close the public hearings on Items 13 through 15.
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: I move we finally close the public hearings on Items 13, 14, and 15.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Okay. Any discussion or do I have a motion? Okay. There is no
discussion.
Meridian City Council
May 16,2006
Page 19 of 57
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: First off, I do want to thank the applicant and Anna for -- it might have just been
me, my confusion on the right of way issue on Chinden, 70 versus 100 feet, so [
appreciate getting that cleared up. I would move we approve Item 13, AZ 06-003, and
the condition of approval be part of that annexation. Mr. Nary?
Nary: For the development agreement.
Borton: Development agreement. And add a condition of approval to that development
agreement.
Nary: Yeah. The condition of the development agreement, I think, was in relation to the
application for the variance, so that would include that in the development agreement, if
that's what Council member wants.
Borton: Right. But is this -- do we do it in the annexation?
Nary: Yes.
Borton: Okay. I will kind of clumsily try and get that condition of approval in the
development agreement. I include that the owner consents to vacation of Jericho Road
and the owner will submit a complete application to include -- read my notes here -- to
ACHD prior to approval of the preliminary plat.
Wardle: Second.
De Weerd: Okay.
Borton: For discussion, is that -- procedurally is that phrased right?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council member Borton, yes, that was
what was recommended by the staff. Yes. And consented to by the applicant.
De Weerd: Okay.
Nary: Madam Mayor, on this particular one, because that condition has an impact, both
on the variance, it would probably be appropriate if Councilmember Rountree were to
abstain from this -- from just the annexation.
De Weerd: Okay. Okay. So, we do have a motion. And was that complete?
Borton: I believe so.
Meridian City Council
May 16, 2006
Page 20 of 57
De Weerd: Okay. Do I have a second?
Wardle: I seconded it.
De Weerd: Okay. A motion and second. Any discussion? Okay. Mr. Berg, will you
call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, abstain; Wardle, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSTAIN.
De Weerd: Okay. Item 14.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I move we approve Item 14, PP 06-003, preliminary plat for Hightower
Subdivision.
Wardle: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion to approve Item 14. If there is no discussion --
Canning: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Anna.
Canning: Does the maker of the motion intend to include the developer's commitment
to remove the two townhouse lots?
Borton: Yes.
Wardle: Second agrees.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you for that clarification. Mr. Berg, can you, please, call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Okay. Item 15.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Meridian City Council
May 16, 2006
Page 21 of 57
Borton: I move we approve Item 15, CUP 06-004, request for Conditional Use Permit
for Hightower Subdivision.
Wardle: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. Motion to approve Item 15. Is there any discussion?
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 16:
Continue Public Hearing from May 9,2006: VAR 06-004 Request for a
Variance to construct an access to Chinden Boulevard, a State Highway,
for Hiqhtower Subdivision by Hightower, LLC - southwest corner of
Chinden Boulevard and Jericho Road:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 16.
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Hearing no need for further public comment, I move we close the Public
Hearing on Item 16.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion to close the Public Hearing on 16. All those in favor
say aye. Will the record not -- yes, thank you. That Councilmember Rountree
abstained.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSTAIN.
De Weerd: Okay. Do I have a motion on Item 16?
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: I move we approve Item 16 and include the applicant and staff comments.
Borton: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. We have a motion to approve Item 16. Mr. Nary, do we need also
the conditions that were stated in the annexation in this item as well?
Meridian City Council
May 16. 2006
Page 22 of 57
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, no, you don't need to restate those,
because those were just for the annexation.
De Weerd: Okay.
Nary: This is just approving the variance as recommended.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. If there is no further discussion, Mr. Berg, will you call
roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, abstain; Wardle, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSTAIN.
Item 17:
Public Hearing: AZ 06-012 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 9.43
acres from RUT to R-2 for Hendrickson Subdivision by Kingsbridge
Subdivision, LLC - 4240 East Bott Lane:
Item 18:
Public Hearing: PP 06-010 Request for a Preliminary Plat approval for
18 single-family residential lots and 4 common lots on 9.43 acres in a
proposed R-2 zone for Hendrickson Subdivision by Kingsbridge
Properties, LLC - 4240 East Batt Lane:
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Thank you for bearing with us through this process.
Okay. Items 17 and 18. I will open these public hearings on AZ 06-012 and PP 06-010.
Start with Anna's comments.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is the Hendrickson project. It is
located just east of Kingsbridge Subdivision and it's west of Selatir and east of Eagle,
south of Victory, which is just up the -- would be up at the top of the slide there and
north of Amity, which is right down here on the bottom of the slide. It's getting toward
the edge of our area of city impact. Actually, this dotted line is our current area of city
impact. This is within Boise's area of city impact. The applications include annexation,
zoning, and preliminary plat. The gross residential density is 1.9 units per acre. It
includes 18 single family lots on 9.43 acres in a proposed R-2 zone. Most of the lots in
this area range from 12,000 and, then, they are a little larger on the perimeter. I do
want to point out some awkward lots that -- we have a flag lot here that's a 30-foot flag
and a house here. We have the existing house on a large lot back here that would also
have a 30 foot flag coming out and they currently take access to Batt Lane, which is in
this location at the southeast corner of the property. The open space for the project has
a flag coming off this street, opens up briefly back here, and another flag going that
way. The staff has recommended a development agreement. Some of those
provisions that are unusual or site specific include that the applicant shall install and
maintain the proposed off-site vegetation shown in the strip along the eastern property
line. What we have is -- you can just see it here. Selatir is a public street. It ends and,
Meridian City Council
May 16, 2006
Page 23 of 57
then, you have Selatir as a private lane extending from there. There is a small strip of
land between Selatir Lane held in separate ownership and between this property. And
I'm -- they have agreed to an off-site commitment to landscape that piece of property.
The other development agreement condition is this -- that a maximum of 18 single
family building lots will be platted on the property and, then, the applicant has proposed
that all the homes in Block 2 would be single story and the Commission added a
development agreement condition that stated that the homes in Block 3 would be
similarly restricted. The Commission recommended approval at their April 4th hearing.
In favor of the application were Ken Elliott, Gordon Bates, Don Hendrickson, and
Christine Hendrickson. In opposition were David LaVigne and Leonard Vanskoy. And
commenting were Tim Petchy, Shelly Robertson, Usa Becker, Jerry Larsen, Virginia
Welkerstein and Susan Brender. And I apologize for any mispronunciations on any of
those names. Key issues of the discussion by the Commission were access to Bott
Lane as I noted down here. Design of the open space as I called out. It's kind of
double L shaped, I suppose. Or double flagged. Umiting the height to single stories on
some of the lots. And, then, the stub street to the north. The key Commission changes
to staff recommendations were that they -- and I noted before, they did restrict the
building heights on Lot 3 to be similar to what was proposed on Lot 2. So, if the
applicant wanted to allow two story homes on Lot 2, then, lot -- or Block 2, then, Block 3
would not be limited either. And they also decided -- the Commission has
recommended that the existing home be allowed to continue to access Batt Lane until
Hendrickson Avenue, which is the street on the east end of the property, until it is
extended as a public street to the southeast. I wanted to show you where Batt Lane
goes. I believe this is the current path of Bott Lane and, then, it cuts across here to
Cloverdale and then -- it's not showing, but it does eventually connect to Cloverdale, I
believe. And the applicant may have a comment about that, but it does make its way
there eventually. The outstanding issues before Council -- I have referenced the
applicant's letter that you have received on your desk today and I did go through all of
the other concerns. The first concern that they note is the Planning and Zoning
Commission's restriction on height for Block 3. I think I have explained all the issues
there, that, apparently, at the Planning and Zoning Commission hearing they also -- the
applicant did offer to set the homes on Block 3 25 feet from the back of property line to
provide some additional buffer to those homes that are on Selatir. The zone only
requires 15 feet. The applicant has also raised the question about fencing on the south
boundary. They may need to explain this one further. I wasn't sure exactly where they
were going. It's -- there are two general conditions in the landscape provisions that call
out required fencing for the perimeter of the subdivision. I believe their concern is if
they are accessing Bott Lane that they don't want to put a fence over it and, clearly, we
allow breaks in those fences to accommodate access routes. The applicant also raised
questions about the Ten Mile feeder improvements. That comment is not referencing
an actual condition of approval, it's just in the analysis and the Findings. So, there is no
need to address that on Council's part. There is a -- the applicant notes that there is
some contradiction between staff analysis and Section 10 in the conditions of approval.
This is not uncommon. Staff writes their analysis, they develop the conditions of
approval. If the Commission decides to change those conditions of approval, we just go
and change the conditions of approval, we don't go back and change the analysis. The
Meridian City Council
May 16, 2006
Page 24 of 57
analysis is still left as it was for the planning -- original staff report for the Planning and
Zoning Commission. So, that covers a lot of the items in that. One -- number one on
their -- on their list under those is, yes, the preliminary plat revisions now address the
issues discussed in Section 10, but we don't typically remove that analysis from the
report. Item number two. Yes, those conditions have been met, but regarding a
redesign of the site, staff had proposed a redesign. The applicant took another route to
address those concerns and that's the one you see before you tonight, so -- but those
references are still there, but they have redesigned the site. Condition 1.1.4, as noted,
was removed, because it was inconsistent with the Commission's decision, but it's
noted in the key changes. So, there is really no action needed on that one either. Item
number four, the applicant -- the Commission has recommended that the applicant be
allowed to continue to use Bott Lane until Hendrickson Road extends to the southeast.
I noted that before. They are asking you to address language in the -- again, in the
analysis section stating that access to Bott Lane be fenced off. So, it doesn't reference
a condition of approval. There is no condition of approval that says Bott Lane has to be
fenced. But I did want to take this opportunity to point out that staff is still very
concerned about allowing this property to maintain access off of Bott Lane. This is our
one chance and our only chance, basically, to get this current property owner to
abdicate their rights to that access and as we have seen on Wingate Lane, it's crucial
that the furthest in -- and this is the property furthest in on Bott Lane, that they -- that we
sequentially abandon those rights. Now, in this case it may not affect the City of
Meridian much, given that it's close to the boundary, but it may prevent the logical
extension of Hendrickson Avenue if it's contending with Batt Lane access before it gets
out to Cloverdale and that east-west connection through the section does become
important, even if it is Boise city property it becomes important. Comment number five
on their response, again, it references the analysis section. ]t's not necessary to
address that one at this time. Finally, the applicant has requested that the Council
remove the condition for the stub street and instead allow the applicant to have an
emergency access to Selatir Place, the private lane just to the east. ACHD has
provided comment for you. They sent an e-mail over immediately stating that it is a
condition of their approval and they do want to see that stub street go in. If the
applicant wants to provide an emergency access to Selatir in addition to that, they are
free to do that, but they want to have that stub street and they will address the issue of
whether it should connect at a later time. This does not provide a connection to Selatir
at this time and they will address that later, but they are pretty adamant that they want
that stub street to remain. So, the issues that need to be addressed from my notes are
the stub street, access to Batt Lane, and the height for Block 2, and Block 3 and, then,
the redesign that staff had proposed basically removed these flag lots from being so
secluded and also made the open space more open. Again, the Commission has
recommended this one to you. Staff still has concerns about these private -- these
residences on these flag lots. Code does allow it. ]t's up to I suppose Council to decide
whether it's in the best interest of the city to have these flag lots tucked way behind
these other lots. And with that I will answer any questions that you may have.
De Weerd: Council, any questions for staff at this time?
Meridian City Council
May 16, 2006
Page 25 of 57
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor?
De Weerd. Yes, Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Anna, I can't read the number on this parcel. It's either three or five. Is that
part of the flag lot access or is that -- can it be a common lot or what's going on there?
Is that part of this lot here?
Canning: It is the common lot. It comes down here, kind of shaped like a --
Rountree: Okay. Okay.
Canning: -- flag with a pendent that connects.
De Weerd: Okay. Anything else, Council? Okay. Is the applicant here? If you will
state your name and address for the record.
Elliott: Thank you. Good evening, Madam Mayor and Members of the Council. My
name is Ken Elliott, I'm with Vision First, LLC. Our address is 661 South River Shore
Lane, Eagle, Idaho. 83616.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Elliott: Gordon Bates, who is our project manager, will be dealing with two of the points
that Anna raised. I'd like to talk -- or I had planned to talk just about the height
restriction on Block 3, but I first want to clarify one point on the Bott Lane access that I
think may not have been stated clearly and that is that it's only the existing Hendrickson
house on Lot 10 of Block 2 that will maintain its historic access to Bott Lane. The rest of
the project will have that stub street blocked by a barricade and we will not seek or have
any access to Bott Lane. Just the one house. And the Planning and Zoning
Commission agreed with that compromise and, again, it will not interfere with the future
extension of our southern stub to the south or the east, because the condition further
says that once that public street connection is made, then, the Hendricksons will use
that instead and will relinquish the existing access to Batt Lane. With that said, I'd like
to go on to the -- the single story restrictions on Block 3. And interpreting the Planning
and Zoning Commission's reasoning, I think it was primarily based on the fact that as a
matter of contract when we bought the Hendrickson's land, we agreed that those interior
lots that back up against the Hendrickson's backyard will be restricted to single story.
Planning and Zoning seemed to think that if we did it voluntarily as a matter of the land
purchase, that we should, then, go ahead and restrict those that adjoin Selatir. As you
can see, the Hendrickson's house is oriented -- the backyard is to the northeast and
that's the primary view from this area is of the Boise foothills, Bogus Basin, those lots if -
- on the interior, if they were two story, would directly block the Hendrickson's existing
view to the northeast and that's why we agreed to that concession. Along the eastern
Meridian City Council
May 16,2006
Page 26 of 57
boundary, Block 3, we did make several compromises with the Selatir neighbors and we
thought that we had reached a census that did not include limiting those houses to
single stories. As Anna mentioned, we have voluntarily agreed to a 24 foot rear yard
setback. We are putting a three foot berm at the property line with a six foot privacy
fence on top of it. There is an existing 16 foot wide strip to the west of that private lane,
that's the area that we will be improving with landscaping and, then, maintaining through
the homeowners association. Then we have a 50 foot right of way and, then, we have
the front yards on the houses ranging anywhere from 50 and up, 50 feet and up. We
eliminated one of the lots there. We originally had six lots. We reduced that to five, so
that we have the largest lots in the subdivision adjoining Selatir. All of them are well in
excess of 15,000 square feet. One is over 16. Each lot lines up with the existing lots on
Selatir. So, we have a house -- a house on Selatir, a house on Hendrickson and, then,
the fifth one at the south end adjoins an open space tract that's being held under the
farm use covenant. So, we, basically, have four new lots aligned with four existing
houses. These are the largest lots in the subdivision and with the primary view as it is
to the Hendricksons, the primary view for the folks on Selatir is to the northeast and we
think that the agreements that we reached voluntarily are adequate to buffer their front
yard view from any two story houses that are built on our eastern block. I would note
that Selatir is not restricted. One of the four houses has an existing two story house.
The other three houses that adjoin us could add a second story at any time. There is no
such restriction on their property rights. We are asking that the Council reconsider the
Planning and Zoning's recommendation. You may recall as part of the Kingsbridge
Subdivision approval that we voluntarily -- or through a negotiated settlement with the
neighbors, limited the height on several of our preliminary lots to single stories along
Zaldia Lane, along Dartmoor, the subdivision. Just to make this more than a
hypothetical exercise, I want to let you know that we have signed lot reservation
agreements on all of phase one in Kingsbridge from 18 builders who want to be part of
the project. We had that on all the lots, except those that are restricted to single story.
We expect that they will eventually sell, but it shows that there is a very real drag on the
marketability of those lots when they are restricted to single story. So, we would ask
that these five lots not be so restricted. And I'd invite Gordon Bates now, project
manager, to address the other two points that Anna raised. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Elliott Unless there are questions that --
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I have a question.
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: You indicated that the 16 foot strip over here n
Elliott Yes.
Rountree: -- would be landscaped and maintained by the homeowners?
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May 16, 2006
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Elliott: Correct.
Rountree: Is that a piece of property that your company owns or is that owned by the
neighboring homeowners?
Elliott: Madam Mayor, Councilor Rountree, it's owned by the -- either one or two of the
residents of Selatir Place and so it will be an off-site obligation that we are taking on as
a matter of deed restriction and covenants that will affect our subdivision.
Rountree: And is that something that you could do? I mean have you negotiated that at
this point or is that just wishful thinking?
Elliott: That's part of our agreement that we have reached with the Selatir neighbors,
that they want us to improve and landscape and, then, maintain that strip.
Rountree: Thank you.
Elliott: Thank you.
Bates: Good evening. Gordon Bates. I work for Vision First. My business address is
661 South River Shore Lane, Suite 120, Eagle, Idaho. [very quickly will go through the
presentation we have this evening. I want to thank all of you and Madam Mayor and the
Council members for your time. We agree with most of the Exhibit B conditions of
approval. I think the clarification letter that I sent speaks for itself there. There is a few
items that we will discuss here in just a few moments. The neighbors that are here I
believe will mostly speak to their concerns regarding the stub street and they will also
voice their opinion on the height restrictions. I would like to note that this project does
comply with the R-2 zoning, including the five percent open space, 15,000 square foot
minimum lot size, 80 foot frontage. There are actually 15 foot flag lots and that's per the
UDC and that was based upon redesign comments from Joe Guenther and I believe
also Caleb Hood on that. They do have a shared driveway, which is the hatched area.
There is a shared driveway here. There is another shared driveway right here. We do
believe that these flag lots meet the UDC code. Amenities. If you could switch to the
next handout there, Anna. The green. Thank you. A little bit of a zoom out, please.
The green space highlighted is the common area. This is a detention area and common
area here with trees and landscaping. The park originally came down a very narrow
flag lot and flared out in this area. There was no access to Hendrickson Avenue here.
This has been redesigned based primarily on Ueutenant Stowe's comments from the
city police department to provide a flare visibility from the street here into the park to
provide visibility and access into the park here, so that we meet his primary concerns
about anybody, a police officer or otherwise, would have visibility back into this park.
We also feel like this is a very centrally located park, it provides access by the new lots,
it also provides access from the existing home. It provides a path area for younger
children to play in it away from the street. We looked at separating the major
recreational activity from the street traffic. We feel like that is very save. And as per
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May 16,2006
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staff comments, we will have non-trespass light to provide very low level lighting to
discourage activity after dark, but, yet, will also provide these neighbors with very limited
visibility into that. This light will not splash out into those lots and creating a type of
nuisance. It will most likely be three foot high bollards of light, shielded lighting on top.
And we feel that P&Z has -- as they have approved this as noted in Exhibit B, item 4.1.
We have had numerous meetings with the neighbors. Three of them to be exact. Lots
of communication. There is concerns with the stub street going north to Mr. Dan
Johnson's parcel. This area here that I did not highlight, because it's off site, is our 15
foot landscape strip, and the neighboring association has agreed verbally, we have not
developed a written agreement yet, that would allow us to not only construct these
improvements, but maintain them by the Hendrickson homeowners association. It will
include a three foot berm and a six foot privacy fence centered on our easterly boundary
and their westerly boundary. Ken went through the other concessions. I won't repeat
those. I would note that we have the 25-foot yard -- rear yard setback and that's on
note 15 of the preliminary plat. Fifteen foot wide buffer strip, a 50-foot wide right of way
and, then, we start getting into their front and side yards over here. Staff notes -- also
note that we comply with the Comprehensive Plan, low density residential future use.
We also have provided reasonable transition lots and voluntary concessions that
exceed the city requirements. Regarding the access -- Anna, if you could go to the next
handout, please, with the fence. Existing Lot 10 of Block 2 is a portion that the
Hendricksons are retaining ownership of. Their existing house is here. Their existing
driveway comes down and comes into the Ten Mile feeder canal right of way and
continues down to Bott Lane. We are not -- we are proposing to provide dual access for
this lot. They will have a gate here with a paved shared driveway for city code, access
to Hendrickson Avenue to Kingsbridge Drive and westerly. We are requesting that their
existing legal and historic access to Bott Lane to the south remain and be allowed to
continue until Hendrickson Avenue is extended to the south. Mr. Hendrickson is not
here this evening. He'd point out that many of their friends and most of the community
that they have relationships with are along Bott Lane and they would just like to
continue that access for their sole purpose for this lot only. They would secure this gate
and not let public access come onto their private property. They would not allow public
access to come to Bott Lane. It would be solely for their use only and not the remaining
subdivision or any adjoining streets. Fencingwise. There is some comments regarding
fencing the south boundary against the canal located here. We are providing fencing
from this point to here along the south boundary to the gate. These are all fenced --
either proposed fence or open fence around the common area. It connects to the
fencing proposed for Kingsbridge Subdivision to the west. We are asking for a formal
waiver from this point to the southwest corner of Lot 10, Block 2, to the gate at the
westerly terminus of the shared driveway. Mr. Hendrickson's pointed out that they enjoy
the canal there, it's part of the amenities of their property, even though it is not part of
their property, it's on a separate parcel and is requested not to have to fence this, since
we are providing fencing boundary in other areas of the subdivision and we would ask
for a formal waiver noting that portion. Regarding the stub street, the developer,
ourselves, and the neighbors along Selatir Lane would dearly love to see that stub
street go away. Mr. Dan Johnson, the owner of this parcel here, speaks for himself on
that matter. The staff report indicates that this stub street connects to Selatir Lane and
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May 16,2006
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up to Victory. To date I'm not aware of Mr. Johnson having a formal application to do
that. I feel like this stub street may go nowhere. It really depends on Mr. Johnson's
development plans and I'll let him speak for himself. Selatir is a county road. It has no
sidewalks. We feel that future connectivity is much better served down Hendrickson
Avenue to a full urban street with sidewalks and connection over towards development
off of Cloverdale Road. We would offer -- if we could have that next slide, please, Anna.
I would note that this is purposefully a hand sketch change. This is just a proposal. It's
not gone to ACHD, etc. But if ACHD agrees to eliminate the stub street here, we would
offer to substitute that with the gravel and gated emergency vehicle only access lane to
provide enhanced vehicle access to the Hendrickson and the easterly side of
Kingsbridge Drive.
De Weerd: Sir, if you could, please, summarize.
Bates: You bet. In closing, we meet the zoning requirements, Comprehensive Plan
designation. We are providing the city with larger lots south of the freeway, in
comparison to the relatively denser subdivisions elsewhere. We ask that the city would
reconsider the height restriction on Block 3. We ask that you could concur with the
Planning and Zoning allowance for the continued legal use of the access of Lot 10,
Block 2, to Bott Lane. We ask that you would grant a fence waiver on the southerly
portion of Lot 10, Block 2. We ask that you would allow for -- subject to ACHD approval,
the removal of the stub street to be replaced by an emergency vehicle access, again,
contingent upon ACHD approval at a later date. This would allow for staff level
approvals of those changes of preliminary plat, rather than a new public hearing before
you. We also would --
De Weerd: Sir?
Bates: Yeah.
De Weerd: Your time is over.
Bates: Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I have a question.
De Weerd: Okay.
Bates: Yes.
Meridian City Council
May 16, 2006
Page 30 of 57
Rountree: What is this feature?
Bates: That is an existing canal. It will be piped around the perimeter of the property.
That's the McDonald Lateral. And we have worked that out with the Boise Project
Board of Control. They feel like the hydraulics there are reasonable such that a piping
will work just fine through there. It's got several checks providing lots of fall that we can
pipe on the perimeter.
Rountree: So, it will be on the southern perimeter? Southerly and westerly perimeter,
yes, sir.
Rountree: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions for the applicant at this time? Okay.
Bates: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a number of people signed up here. When I read your name
I will also read how you have checked the form. If you wish to provide testimony when [
read your name, please, come forward. If not, we will at least record your name and
opinion for the record. Lisa Becker. Against.
Becker: Good evening. My name is Usa Becker. 3421 South Selatir Place in Meridian.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Becker: I live one lot north of the proposed development. Both Vision First and the
homeowners testified at Planning and Zoning Commission. All opposed the northern
stub street, so we wanted to explain why we oppose it. Our street Selatir is a very
narrow street. It was designed as a dead end cul-de-sac to access six estate lots. [
wrote you a letter, but the picture didn't turn out very good, so I wanted to show you the
width of the road. You can see if two -- if two cars are on that road, basically, there is
no room for another car to get by. The road is, actually, 23.5 feet wide and we have
irrigation runoff on both sides of the barrow pits. A lot of times the irrigation runoff it's
basically from side to side. So, it's a very narrow road. ACHD in their letter dated
March 21 st indicated that that northern stub street was placed there in anticipation of a
future connection to Selatir Place. We feel this creates a safety risk. It would allow
dumping urban density residential from Kingsbridge and Hendrickson onto this very
narrow rural lane. ACHD also indicated that the stub street was there for future
development to the north. However, we don't feel that's necessary. Our restrictive
covenants only permit up to one acre lots. They are currently all five acre estate lots
and our restrictive covenants only allow future development to one acre lots. Those one
acres could be accessed easily off of Selatir. There is no need for the stub to access
future development. We want to indicate that we do support the vision for connectivity
between neighborhoods. That's why we have proposed a compromise of the fire lane,
which would allow bike and pedestrian access between the neighborhoods without
Meridian City Council
May 16. 2006
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dumping urban density traffic onto this rural road. So, we just ask -- I'd ask in summary
that you either remove the stub street -- we have talked with Commissioner Huber from
the ACHD and she's indicated that on some occasions you have been willing to remove
stub streets. Or we ask that you refer it back to the ACHD for a public hearing.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Becker: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Jeff Welkerstein. And I really apologize if I just messed up your
name.
Welkerstein: That's okay.
De Weerd: And, please, state your name and address for the record.
Welkerstein: Jeff Welkerstein. 3702 South Selatir Place.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Welkerstein: I live down about the cul-de-sac, second house from the end. I just want
to concur with the previous testimony from my neighbor concerning allowing the stub
street to connect into Selatir Place. I just want to reiterate it's a rural narrow road with
barrow pits and no sidewalks. On the ACHD report they estimated that the Hendrickson
Subdivision would add about 170 vehicle trips per day. I don't believe there was any
mention of the additional traffic that would be added from the adjacent Kingsbridge
Subdivision to the west that would want to shortcut through there as well. Also, we
were unaware of any ten day appeal process to the ACHD report. The letter was dated
March 21st and I did not receive a copy of the e-mail until after the ten day appeal
period. So, I also would appreciate City Council recommending removal of the stub
street or sending it back to ACHD for review. Another point I want to make is originally
we were opposed to the density as it currently stands. I would be happier if the lot sizes
mirrored the size of the Kingsbridge lots abutting the Dartmoor Subdivision, which was a
half acre to one acre transition on some of the perimeters and some height restrictions
as well. In talking with Vision First, we told them we would be more amenable to the
proposed site, which are about third acre lots, assuming the house and the out buildings
adjacent to Selatir Place are limited to one story and maintained a 25-foot setback. And
so that's what Planning and Zoning recommended and we support restricting those and
I think it's Lot 3 to one story. Then, finally, I also believe there is confusion about
whether or not the Hendrickson property is included in this -- in the 9.43 acres. If it's
not, I mean I'm confused, if they still want access to Bott Lane, if they are not part of the
subdivision, then, including them in the 9.3 acres, the density is too great for R-2
zoning. So, in summary, concerns about the stub street. Hopefully, we can send it
back to ACHD for review. And concerns about the density and/or the height restrictions.
Meridian City Council
May 16, 2006
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De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Jenny Welkerstein. Welkerstein. Also against. Okay.
Thank you. David LaVigne. Exactly. I always appreciate coaching, though. Okay. If
you would like to step forward and just say your name and address for the record.
LaVigne: I didn't want to use my minutes up yet, so I was just waiting --
De Weerd: We won't start it until she's ready.
LaVigne: Okay.
Nary: Please summarize.
LaVigne: Wait a minute. My name is David LaVigne. I live at 3317 South Selatir Place,
which is just a little north of the proposed subdivision. And so what I wanted to do is
just kind of talk -- walk you through some of the points. One of our primary concerns --
you want to flip to the next slide -- is -- we are requesting denial of the proposed plat
map primarily because of the concern for the stub street to the north property for future.
Primary concern is just the stub street. If you could go to the next slide. And as you
saw, this is the stub street that we were talking about we would like to see removed.
And if you want to go to the next slide. The Selatir Place, as referred, is a rural road, it's
22.3 feet wide with no sidewalks, barrow pits, and as you can see on the right-hand side
over here, this is water that fills up with the irrigation water on the side. Cars in the
middle here and you want -- I have got -- I have got two kids -- I have got three kids.
Two three year old twins and -- forget how many I have. I don't get a lot of sleep.
Rountree: How many is that?
LaVigne: I don't know. It's a blur. But they -- you know, they, actually, go down and
visit Jeff's kids down at the end of the street, which they have to run all the way down
here at the end of the street and it's a one mile road. So, if you want to go to the next
slide. So, as you can kind of see the way that the road is, it's a long -- long narrow road,
barrow pits on each side, and it's 1.75 -- one to 1.75 acres and if you open this thing up
to -- to what's coming over on Selatir from Kingsbridge and from the Hendrickson
Subdivision, it's going to be like a speedway and a question to you guys is where are
our kids supposed to walk and go down and visit their friends when you have -- when
you potentially have 500 cars per day coming down this road when you open it up to
Hendrickson Subdivision, as well as portion -- back portion of Kingsbridge. So, the next
slide. To give you a flavor of what's on the street, if you haven't been down there
before, just to kind of give you an idea of some of the homes, the estate homes that are
on here. There is anywhere between one and five acre lots and it's right on the edge of
the Meridian city limits, if you have seen it. If you want to go to the next slide. These
are just some more five acre estate lots in Selatir Place. Just to kind of give you a
flavor, the homes are setback, they are big acreages, and nobody's -- I mean it's just a -
- it's a great rural environment that's still within -- you know, it's close to the City of
Meridian, which we are getting fewer and fewer homes that are -- developments that are
still out here like this. If you want to go to the next slide. So, what we'd like to -- the
Meridian City Council
May 16, 2006
Page 33 of 57
primary concern is the public safety is the primary concern regarding the potential
connection to Selatir Place via the stub street on the Hendrickson Subdivision. And as
you have kind of heard, what we'd like to kind of propose is some options --layout some
options for you. If you want to go to the next slide. And the Selatir homeowners, as
well as Vision First, we were, first, unaware of the 10 day appeal period that must be
filed to contest ACHD recommendations. That had actually lapsed, almost, by the time
we had gotten to talk to the Planning and -- to Planning and Zoning. And what we'd like
to recommend is the City Council -- one of the options is to -- the City Council not act on
the report and--
De Weerd: If you will, please, summarize.
LaVigne: Okay. This is -- if you want to go to the next slide. That was one option. And
the next option. Bottom line is -- you have heard a lot of the options and you also heard
about the proposed stub street. Removing the stub street and that piece of strip, spite
strip that we have been talking about, is granting access across, is -- that's in lieu of --
we would grant access to something like that, because it's, actually, a part of the
homeowners association. The group has purchased it under the homeowners
association, that spite strip, and we would, actually, like to encourage some
connectivity, but we don't want to encourage the connectivity to have all of the traffic
coming down, but we do agree with the connectivity of neighborhoods. We would like to
have connectivity between Kingsbridge, as well as Selatir as well. So, we would be
more than happy to offer that up in lieu of removing the stub street regarding any future
connectivity to that whole piece as well as you see right there. And one other last
option, a quick summary, and I'm out of here, is that -- is that on putting a restriction on
the stub street, which I had talked to Sherry Huber, ACHD commissioner about, she
said that you could actually put a restriction on this stub street that it could not be used
for -- for vehicle access, only emergency access or pedestrian access, if the stub street
still had to stay there. So, that's an additional option for you to consider. So, I
appreciate your time. Thanks a lot.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes. Sir, we have a question for you.
Wardle: Okay. Mr. LaVigne -- and I'm referencing your mention of increased traffic and
those sorts of things. And maybe I'm not understanding the plat right. Does this stub
street connect to your lane or does it just --
LaVigne: It does not. It is the future -- I mean we are -- it's -- the next step would be --
the person -- if you want to put up a slide of where it stubs out, the person or the
property to the north is considering right now subdividing that -- that parcel and putting
additional homes on it. ACHD has -- Lori Den Hartog, in her report, had mentioned that
she would be willing to -- or she likes the idea of the connectivity and would like -- the
Meridian City Council
May 16, 2006
Page 34 of 57
whole -- there is nothing in the back here and there is a stub street right here right now
in Kingsbridge, which is already here. There is already one over here. So, one
additional stub street here and, then, you have one down here. One going here out to
this road. If Dan Johnson subdivides and brings that -- or approves -- you know, ACHD
says they would like to connect, bottom line is and the concern is once -- once Dan
Johnson decides to subdivide, which he's planning on doing and we don't know what
the plat map looks like, because he hasn't filed it, but the next step would be to -- you
know, the connectivity would go out to -- ACHD would like that connectivity out there.
So, that's kind of where -- we are trying to be a step ahead of it. We have been talking
about this for two years now as Kingsbridge was going through all this and wanting to
connect over to this way, over to Selatir as well. So, we are trying to be a step ahead of
it, because we know the next step is just going to be a continuous -- I mean that's kind
of what the end result's going to be. We are trying to prevent that. Does that help?
That's your question?
Wardle: That clarifies it. Thank you.
LaVigne: Okay.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Borton.
Borton: It raised a question. Maybe it confused me.
LaVigne: Sure.
Borton: So, the concern that -- if there is a stub street here and there is connectivity
here, it's not going to increase traffic on the street in front of these properties.
LaVigne: It would not.
Borton: Okay. Your concern is for properties up here?
LaVigne: My concern is for properties up there that go all the way up. There is
probably a quarter mile roadway from here all the way up here and my kids go walk
down here right now to catch the bus, as well as other kids down here walk from here
down the street to catch the bus at the end at Victory.
Borton: Your photographs were of these properties, not -- or of the street up here, not
of the street down here?
LaVigne: Correct. These are all -- there is two more -- that's my property right there.
There is two more properties here and there is more over here, but --
Borton: Okay. Thank you.
Meridian City Council
May 16, 2006
Page 35 of 57
LaVigne: Does that help? All right.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Susan Brender signed up against.
Brender: I'm Susan Brender. I live at 3568 South Selatir Place, which is the second
one acre lot on the east side of Selatir, not exactly adjacent, but my south property line
would be the same as the north property line for the Hendrickson Subdivision.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Brender: I agree with everything that's been said so far. I just want to add two things.
One is in regards to the safety along Selatir if the stub street were put in there and
future access for all of Kingsbridge traffic were to dump out on Selatir -- right now the
street is one of those where it's been blacktopped a couple of times and so on the sides
there is probably a five inch dropoff in someplaces to the gravel. I'm sure the kids riding
their bicycles down there, if they were trying to avoid a car, it could be serious and there
are a lot of children on that street. The other issue that [ have -- that I want to
emphasize -- it's already been mentioned -- is the height restriction on the east lots or
Block 3. Contrary to the statement that everyone's view is to the northeast, which is
true, but we also have a terrific view to the southwest. We can see the Owyhees. We
won't be able to see them with two story houses. But the major thing is that single story
restriction of Block 3 would be compatible with the house across the street. Those are
my concerns. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Jerry Larsen signed up against.
Larsen: Jerry Larsen. 3536 South Selatir Place.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Larsen: Ditto all my neighbors on the -- especially on the stub street. We have pretty
much run that one. A couple of comments on the single story development. It is wrong
for the area. It's a very open area. I agree they have made a big point about the view
to the northeast -- primarily east northeast. We also do have a fantastic view out the
west. I have some amazing pictures of the setting sun that a nine foot fence would not
occlude those two story skulking homes from ruining. So, [ would ask they be restricted
to single story. Also, I'd note that if you look at the scale on Kingsbridge would like to
talk about how far away the houses are across the road and across our front yards. If
you scale that, they -- those one story homes, hopefully, would be about the same
distance away as the one story homes surrounding Mr. Hendrickson. So, it's the same
distance. The other point I'd like to make is -- as explained on P&Z meeting when we
were here before, the norm is that when somebody joins the city, they give up access to
the county. I would ask that that be enforced here. Mr. Hendrickson seems to -- or Mr.
Hendrickson needs to decide whether he wants to be in the city or in the county and
either get in or get out, rather than cherry pick to his own exclusive advantage. The--
Meridian City Council
May 16,2006
Page 36 of 57
you know, if he wants to have his dogs play in the ditch and have access to the ditch,
then, stay in the county, don't develop. He can make that choice. But if he wants to be
in the city, I think he needs to be in the city, so -- and if he is -- you know, if he is
allowed access and out, then, let's take his property out of the density calculation, you
know, not have it both ways. That's my comments.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Rick Anderson signed up against. Okay. Thank you.
Delphia Anderson. Or Delpha. Thank you. Dan Johnson. Neutral.
Johnson: My name is Dan Johnson. I live at 3501 South Selatir Place. Good evening,
Madam Mayor and Council Members. I don't know if neutral is really the right way I feel
right now, because I mean I have had some conversations about maybe doing
something at some point with my property. I have been out there since '91. Built the
house, enjoyed it. I'm seeing things change. But I agree with all my neighbors and also
with Vision First that that stub street is not needed, not wanted, and doesn't belong
there. You have seen what sort of area we live in. If I ever do split lots off, it will not be
to move Hendrickson and Kingsbridge traffic down Selatir. I know from my two
neighbors -- and we are all three irrigators, we fill those borrow pits full of water about
twice or three times a month and it's not safe. Victory Lane is only -- or Victory Road is
only two lanes with no turn -- center turn and there is no way you can stack maybe a
third of a mile of cars in commuter time up and down our road. So, everybody's right, if I
ever do split my lots, I don't need that stub street and I'm going to fight it with the rest of
my neighbors. I know the Council here can make that decision. It's back to ACHD. But
I think, from what I understand, the Planning and Zoning Commission understood what
we were all saying is that that emergency access is really a gift from the neighborhood
to allow something to happen while the dynamics of development and connectivity and
things like that happen. My understanding is that it's going to be about 14 to 18 months
before the sewer and water and the absorption rate of Kingsbridge and Hendrickson
come our way. In that amount of time it's hard to say what could happen to the other
parcels and ACHD needs to understand that, Council, and everybody else. So, I'm
standing with my neighbors. I don't want the stub street. I will not connect to it if it
stays. And so that's where I am. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, sir. Okay. Tim Petchy signed up against. Hasn't changed yet,
uh?
Petchy: Not yet. My name is Tim Petchy. I live at 3726 South Selatir and that's
actually -- I, actually own these two lots at the end of the road here. And I'm with my
neighbors on stopping the stub street connecting out to Victory Road in the future.
That's just -- there is no place for that on our street. It's a small rural road. But another
concern of mine is that the restriction on Block 3, we do enjoy a view out to the west.
Actually, the way this lays out, we would have three of those lots would actually be
abutting my property and we do enjoy our sunsets, our views out to the west. If I'm out -
- our house actually views out to the northwest from the front of our house, so that
directly affects our views and 1 kind of thought we had P&Z on our side protecting that.
We did make some concessions on the size of those lots, so I don't feel that third acre
Meridian City Council
May 16,2006
Page 37 of 57
lots are really a transition to the five and one acre pieces we have out there. So, I
thought that was maybe a concession that we could work with with Vision First and
that's my comments.
De Weerd: Thank you, sir. Usa Petchy is also against. Thank you. And Bob Becker.
Against.
B. Becker: Good evening, Madam Mayor, Council Members. I really don't have much
more to add. I think my wife did an excellent job.
Nary: Name and address. Name and address, sir.
De Weerd: Oh, yes.
B. Becker: I'm sorry. Bob Becker, 3421 South Selatir Place. She stole all my notes, so
she, essentially, did my work for me. The only thing I would like to add is you,
essentially, have everyone here opposing the stub street. You have the developer
opposing the stub street. You have the adjacent landowner Dan Johnson opposing the
stub street. You have all of the other neighbors opposing the stub street. And we
would ask that you send this back to ACHD, so that they can study it and hold a hearing
and we have a chance to maybe get the stub street removed. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Is there any additional testimony on this?
Canning: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Canning: I forgot to address one knew issue that the applicant had raised in their letter
and I just feel it's important to at least note it on the record, so that we have a clear
record for the future. They have asked that Mr. Hendrickson be allowed to continue
having livestock on the property, the larger lot that's being proposed. In the past the city
has allowed livestock to continue on larger properties for a limited time as a
nonconforming use. If the Council does wish to grant that request as part of the
development agreement, the applicant would need to document what animals they have
and what animals they continue to have -- will continue to have and when that use will
end, because they are not allowed in the city. So, they did raise that issue in their letter.
It was not discussed previously, so -- typically we see that that -- well, the last time you
did it, the ability to have horses was limited to the current property owner only and I
think we limited it to exactly the number she had on the property at that time, which was
three. Actually, I think we limited it to those three horses that were on the property,
so --
De Weerd: And we lost them through attrition.
Canning: Yeah.
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May 16, 2006
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De Weerd: Okay. If there is no further public testimony, I would ask the developer if
they would like to have -- yes. I'm sorry. Before we call you up --
Wardle: Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: If Mr. Inselman could ask -- or could answer a question that's been raised by
the neighbors and that would be the process to -- is there a process to appeal ACHD's
decision on this stub street?
Inselman: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Gary Inselman representing ACHD.
3775 North Adams. This was acted on in March. There is a ten day appeal period.
The developer certainly knew. It was attached to our staff report that went to them. If
the Council approved a plat that differed from the one we did, there would have to be a
reconciliation of. If they denied this plat and the applicant resubmitted, certainly we
would review the new plat and hold public hearings now we are aware of all of the
interest in the neighborhood.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: While we have got the other black cat up here, I'm confused by your letter.
And the letter starts off about -- you didn't require a stub street to the east, because of
the strip of property and so you proposed a stub street to the north and required that.
Your letter ends with this statement: The district is supportive of the neighbors' proposal
to allow an emergency access from Selatir Place across the strip of property now
owned by the homeowners association. So, they kind of got ahead of this -- or in the
middle of this. Does that mean that if that were provided you would still take their -- or
ACHD would still take the strong position for a stub street?
Inselman: The lane to the east is private, so a public stub to a private road would not
serve a lot of benefit to the public and, then, there is that spite strip that would need to
be crossed at some point. The only reason for the stub to the north is to preserve the
opportunity for the connectivity. There is no guarantee that there will ever be a
connection to Selatir if Johnson, I believe that's his name, developed his property in a
manner that it does not require connection to this subdivision or does not require a
connection to Selatir, perhaps it would never happen. I can't say until that parcel comes
in. It's only to preserve options for the future. That stub could be moved west of where
it's at, anywhere along that north boundary would provide a little more circuitous route in
the future if it ever did connect. It may never connect if Mr. Johnson doesn't develop. If
it ever did, we certainly look at the condition of the existing street. We are very
concerned about a place for pedestrians. We have to tackle these issues,
unfortunately, far too regularly in the county, where older narrower streets are
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May 16, 2006
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developed at the end and more traffic is put down them and as best we can we require
off-site improvements to widen that road to provide a place -- safe place for the
pedestrians. It's difficult to require the developer of a small parcel like Mr. Johnson's to
improve a quarter mile of road with curb, gutter, and sidewalk, but we will certainly make
what provisions we can for the safety of the pedestrians in the future.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, if I could follow up on that. I have
been involved with at least one project that was similar to this where what we ended up
doing is taking the stub up, run it over, and, then, run it up again and some of the
houses would have faced what is Selatir on this one. So, there are ways of getting
public street connections in there without having a direct access to Selatir at this time.
And so it's -- this one is -- everyone's assuming that the next one will just end -- you
know, pull that public street right to that cul-de-sac and my experience has been that
ACH 0 commission does listen and that they try and meet those concerns that Mr.
lnselman has pointed out.
De Weerd: Yeah. But, Anna, I guess there is this problem of institutional memory, too,
if Mr. Johnson sells and the next person comes and does it, you know, they can do it a
little bit differently and we have seen the dangers of urban densities connecting to some
of these private roads or rural roads that are really there to serve just more of that rural
level development and it is -- we are seeing that all around and this is the first time I
have seen it really be asked to stub into it.
Canning: Madam Mayor, we -- I have had hits on probably half of those five acre lots,
people looking to buy them, assemble them, and redevelop them.
De Weerd: Well, that is sad. I really like the pictures I saw. Tell them there is other
places and land. Thanks, Gary. Okay. If the developer would like to come up with
wrapping up remarks. You have five minutes.
Elliott: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Again, for the record I'm
Ken Elliott for Vision First, 661 South River Shore Lane, Eagle, Idaho. 83616. We have
-- I think looking at this map, it is helpful to recall that the Kingsbridge Subdivision does
have two stub streets to the north, one near the northwest corner, one near the
northeast corner, then, we have our primary access out to Eagle Road, plus a
secondary access through Dartmoor. So, by adding 17 houses to that 125 unit
subdivision, we are being asked to, essentially, add two additional stub streets. We
think one is warranted. We think an emergency access is warranted through Selatir, but
what we think is going to happen, what the scuttlebutt is, is that that large rectangle to
the south of the R-1 abutting Cloverdale, which is split by the Meridian and Boise areas
of impact, is likely to develop and that with some cooperation from our neighbors to the
south on the large ten acre tracts that we could loop the Hendrickson Avenue
connection over to that large rectangle and go out to Cloverdale Road. That's been our
hope and plan all along. That's what we told the Council and the Planning and Zoning
with Kingsbridge, that we were hoping to acquire Hendrickson, so that we could get
access out either by Batt Lane and, again, although it's not shown, the part that's within
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May 16, 2006
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the Portland -- or the -- Portland. Boise. I'm slipping back to a past life. The Boise area
of impact, that is all a public street all the way to the point where it gets to the canal,
which is the diagonal road. In response to the one gentleman that would take away
Hendrickson's access through Bott Lane, it seems a little counter productive if you're
going to add one more house that has no way to get out when we are trying to maintain
an access that goes back about 80 years. The canal was sold to the New York Canal
Company at a time when that ten acre lot owner was a shareholder of the canal
company and so to just take that access away because they are a remnant parcel and
now part of the Hendrickson subdivision, that was certainly never our understanding as
a developer, it was never the Hendrickson's contemplation that they would give up their
access to a county road, the only stretch that's private, I think they have got a good
argument for the title company, if it has to be made, that they have an established legal
access to the point where they connect to Bott Lane. So, we urge you to give them that
-- to allow them to maintain that historic access. Again, it's only for them. We have got
a fence and barricades preventing any of the other future residents of the subdivision
from accessing Bott Lane. We will go out on the public streets through the city. I would
also like the Council's consideration of -- to allow them the personal right, as long as
they own the property, to maintain the number of horses or llamas that they have on the
land, not limited to lives in being -- as to the livestock, but allow the Hendrickson to
enjoy the right that they have historically had and to allow them, as one of the animals
die, they could replace it, they wouldn't have any more in number than they have now,
but they wouldn't lose their rights slowly as the old critters fall away. Thank you very
much.
De Weerd: I guess I do have a question for you and it's something that hasn't come up
through testimony. Can you show the plat, Anna? I am curious. You mentioned the
open space and it's very accessible and in a good location. I don't see what's good
about it. It's behind people's houses, it's tucked behind, and it is out of the vision of the
public. So, it is concern of the safety aspect. It looks like it's more beneficial to only a
couple of people, rather than the entire development in terms of the esthetic value.
And, then, you also count your drainage lot as -- in your open space calculations. There
is not too much play that goes on in a retention area, but I would like to hear your
comments regarding open space.
Elliott: Madam Mayor, we meet the code requirement for open space. We redesigned
the park at the express -- with advice of the police department. It was a narrow strip
coming in from the east-west street to the north. We flared that open, adding that Lot 5
to the park, so they have complete visibility into it. It's quite clearly a pocket park and I
think there are lots of those in -- in other subdivisions. We think by adding the opening
to Hendrickson Avenue to the east, that we create a nice loop, we create a safe area for
young kids to play, but the people who are cutting through the neighborhood on bicycles
can also readily good through the park.
De Weerd: Well, I guess I will politely disagree. I sometimes think that we are creating
attractive nuisances behind -- and hiding them from the public eyes keep them safer.
And so I guess there is just a difference of opinion. And, yes, you did meet our
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minimum requirements. You know, nothing more and nothing less. But I guess in --
well, it just seems like it's -- it's pretty minimal and there is not too much benefit to the
homes that are in and around there. But that's, again, my perception of it.
Elliott: I guess in response, Madam Mayor, I would just say, again, that we -- we got
some pretty strong criticism from the police department and redesigned it in a way that
they approved and that Planning and Zoning Commission approved. And we think
there are benefits to having the main -- the main play area removed from the street for
safety and so you get a little peace and quiet, rather than just being right out on the
street front.
De Weerd: Well, again, I guess in what I have observed through community design is
the more eyes on open space you can get the safer it, really, truly is. So, again, just a
difference of opinion.
Elliott: We do have six or eight households with their backyards up to that park, so I
think there will be a lot of -- a lot of eyes on it.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Elliott: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any further information from the applicant or staff? If not, I
would entertain a motion to close this Public Hearing. Or to continue it for
reconsideration back to ACHD regarding the stub street. Bill, would that take a
continuation to have it go back to ACHD or what is the process for that?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, if I understood Mr. lnselman correctly, I
guess there wasn't -- there isn't a mechanism to remand this back to ACHD. If the
Council approved a plat that was different than what they approved, or did not allow a
plat, they would, then, have an opportunity to revisit it. But there isn't a mechanism to
just simply remand it.
De Weerd: So, we have no appeal of their decision either, then?
Nary: No.
De Weerd: Okay.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: So, the only -- the only avenue is to turn this down and make them go
through the whole process all over again?
Nary: Well, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, certainly that's an option and that
would certainly be one process. If the Council was of a mind to recommend a different
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May 16, 2006
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plat configuration without a stub street or with the stub street in a different location or
with the other connection -- again, I think it was -- if I understood Mr. Inselman correctly,
if this Council recommended something different than what they have seen, they would,
then, have to revisit it and I think there has been some proposed alternatives. So, you
wouldn't necessarily have to reject it just to have it reviewed. Madam Mayor, if you
wouldn't mind, the only thing I guess additionally I would like the Council to consider and
maybe we have all become a little more heightenly aware of these types of concerns.
You have a consentual annexation, but it appears that a lot of the testimony from the
applicant is disagreeing with the conditions either placed on this by ACHD or staff and
the Planning and Zoning Commission and I guess just for your consideration in making
your deliberations, you may want to consider whether there is truly a consentual
annexation request in front of you or whether their conditions are such that it no longer
is conceptual and that may not be something the city wishes to annex at this time. The
conditions regarding the animals on the property, although may be small, is a significant
change from what you have done in the recent past. The conditions regarding access
to the public street is a significant change from what's been required in the past. The
conditions regarding the house sizes and limitations was fully discussed at the Planning
and Zoning Commission and that was their recommendation. It just appears, I guess --
and I just wanted to just make all of you aware and maybe you already are, that, you
know, normally a consentual annexation doesn't always place quite so many conditions
upon their consent and if their consent is so conditioned, I guess I just wanted to make
the Council aware that you may want to factor that into your deliberation and give that
some due consideration as well.
De Weerd: Okay. Questions from Council? What direction -- I would look for a motion
as to what direction you would like to go on this.
Rountree: Is the Public Hearing still open?
De Weerd: Yes, it is.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: If there is no further information or public testimony, I move we close the Public
Hearing on Items 17 and 18.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion to close the pu blic hearings on 17 and 18. All those
in favor say aye. Any opposed?
Rountree: No.
De Weerd: Okay. Three ayes. Motion carries.
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May 16, 2006
Page 43 of 57
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE NAY.
De Weerd: Discussion?
Rountree: Madam Mayor, the reason I'm opposed to closing the hearing is because J
think it's still valid to get some more input We don't have -- and I don't know that Anna
has the road situation for the adjacent subdivision to the west and where those stub
streets mayor may not come into this parcel.
Canning: To the west, sir?
Rountree: Yeah.
Canning: To the east?
Rountree: Kingsbridge.
Canning: Kingsbridge? The only--
Rountree: That's the only one?
Canning: That's the only stub on their eastern property line, I believe. Yes.
Rountree: I thought I heard somebody indicate that there was one --
Canning: I believe they have two to the north.
Rountree: Further north?
Bird: On the north.
Rountree: Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: Council, any comments? I guess I'll give my -- I don't have a vote, unless
you tie, so I will start discussion. You know, I appreciate larger size lots. We don't have
a whole lot in our city. But at what cost? You know, just because they are bigger lots
doesn't mean they are really a true amenity to add to our community. I'm concerned
about the open space. I think it will be nice for a couple of houses to have that open
space, but the safety of our kids -- I mean we looked at park design, we don't like to tuck
things behind things. It's better to have it open to the vision of all and it's even that self-
policing, thinking a car can drive by and -- and it's another set of eyes. It's another set
of eyes for that safety. I know I'm a big advocate for connectivity. I appreciate the
concession to bring this stub out and have it pedestrian. I can't imagine that those
neighbors are going to be walking -- their kids will be walking to the elementary school
that's going to be down the road and they will be walking through those subdivisions.
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May 16, 2006
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So, it's a good access to have. I get concerned about the ability to connect vehicles to
those more rural natured roads that don't have curb, gutter, and sidewalk. Again, it is a
safety factor. So, the open space and the stub street are certainly concerns of mine,
but when a property subdivides, sells it off and subdivides, they lose some of their
rights. I mean the right to develop urban and they also want to stay agricultural. They
need to make up their mind and, again, that's only my opinion, but there is a real
contradiction on this that has some areas of concern and I guess it's going back to a
phrase that has been used -- we are in no hurry to add more land to our city limits, that
these kind of concerns should be answered before they get here.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: You have heard me say those words before.
De Weerd: I quote my favorite people.
Rountree: And I think you made something -- you made a statement that really rang
true to me is that this is a confused venture, in my opinion. It's a property owner who
wants the best of all worlds and at some consideration, but not total consideration of
what the world that they are going to create around them is going to be. I very much
support the idea of internal circulation and I think that it needs to be accommodated. If
that's the best location in the world, I would be surprised. I think there are other
combinations that could be done. It's somewhat limited by the fact that out of this parcel
somebody wants to run a hobby farm in the city. It's either city or it's a ranchette. It
can't be both. I'm really concerned about our experience with lanes. We have fought
lanes for the last ten years and I got to tell you, they are nightmarish and nobody comes
out winners. We have been to court. People have been to court. Nobody wins. The
City's come out all right, but there is issues with those things created. As far as
restricting heights, et cetera, in this particular subdivision, the sale is I assume pending
or done based on the conditions of height restrictions on some lots and to me that's
between the contract holder and seller and on that point I guess I don't have any strong
feeling. I think that the lots are big enough and the spaces are spaced enough that that
really is not an issue, from my perspective. It's proposed as a city subdivision, yet we
have ordinances that require a subdivision to be fenced, yet they don't want to do that
as an entire subdivision. It's really hard for me to say that I can't support this particular
application, because I have been pushing for larger lots and Anna's going to growl at,
because --
De Weerd: Me, too.
Rountree: -- we like small lots from a planning perspective.
Canning: It's the density, not the design. It's design, not density. Sorry. I got that
backwards.
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May 16, 2006
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Rountree: It is design. It is about design. And, I don't know, I could go either way, but I
think that there is nothing that don't work for me with this particular project that now is
the time to say they didn't work. For me. I don't know what the rest of the Council
wants to do. I'd probably -- unless I hear a really good argument, not support this
particular annexation at this point in time. I would be willing, however, to reopen the
Public Hearing and look at some additional design details or changes that the applicant
might want to make to save them the aggravation of trying to do this over.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Councilman Rountree reopened it and what you want to bring back, the problem
is one of your biggest holdups was the existing hobby farm and I'm in the same boat
you are. We both love the larger lots and everything, but I -- I mean, evidently, we are
not talking about a couple of horses or one or two llamas, they want to go on and keep it
the deal. They don't want their south end fenced, when everybody else's is fenced. I
think if you're going to be annexed in, you Jive under the same rules and regulations as
everybody else in the subdivision. That's my personal opinion on that. I'm quite
shocked. I wouldn't want -- I wouldn't want a way over to there, because if they got
water standing like that, I certainly -- beside the fence, I certainly don't want my kids
walking -- or grandkids walking down it. That was a pretty good volume of water going
down there. In fact, I'm shocked that we didn't see a bunch of mosquitoes --
De Weerd: I did.
Bird: -- with animals and stuff around there. I'm kind of like Councilman Rountree, I
could go with a new design to a degree, but I also -- the owner of the property that sold
the property is -- in my book, has to live within the same regulations. I have no problem
with if he's got two or three animals on there now, he can have them, but once they
decease or he sells them, he don't replace them. And pretty soon he's not a hobby
ranchette. So, I can -- I could support opening it up again if he felt -- I don't know what
kind of redesign they are going to do, unless they do a complete redesign. I do like -- I
really do like the size of their lots, though.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further comments? We would look for your direction. I guess,
Mr. Nary, some of the options would be to remand back to Planning and Zoning to
address some of the issues that Councilman Rountree and Councilman Bird have
discussed or what are the options?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I think you probably have -- have two
primary options. I mean you can -- you can certainly -- well, I guess three. You can
approve the project as presented. You can make amendments as you have done. You
can reject the project as presented. You can remand it. There is a number of issues
that you have raised and I guess I'll concede to Mrs. Canning, I mean at a certain point
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May 16, 2006
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the staff time that's necessary to re-analyze a redesign when you have raised -- I mean
I just made a very quick note as you have been speaking of six primary issues that
there are some significant concerns about. To the lane, to whether the -- the private
lane. The animals on the property. The height restriction. The stub street to the north.
The access to Bott Lane. In addition to the access to the canal. And the fencing
surrounding the property. And the relationship with the other county subdivision that's
adjacent. Those are quite a bit of -- of redesign to one project, but, again, like I said, it's
been my experience from the staff's perspective at planning, you know, the remands
work fairly well when it's fairly small and lot sizes -- or parks. I'm sorry. The open space
is another issue you had raised. When it's simply a redesign of a minor thing or just a
park redesign or streets or one thing, but you get a number of them, the staff time gets
eaten up pretty heavily and realistically a re-application is just as -- just as easy on the
staff as it is to try to remand it and redesign it that way. But I don't know if Mrs.
Canning has a different opinion.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, if I might add to that. In the past
when you have remanded things, even if they were large redesigns, it was generally
when staff was unaware of a City Council concern and was not able to guide the
applicant through the review process to address some of those concerns. We have
worked with the applicant on all these issues. We have made suggestions that were not
followed. We have told them that the access lane was an issue in the pre-application
conference. And we have really struggled to get to this point today. And so I would ask
that -- I would certainly prefer a new application.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, you have heard some of the choices that you can make in
the form of a motion. I would entertain a motion or further discussion.
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: I just -- just a comment as far as my preference to -- and I understand staff's
concern with continuing to work with the applicant. I recall this same applicant on the
application next door, as I recall we denied one of those and they brought back a new
project and, really, in my mind addressed the concerns we had at the meeting and so I
don't think that we necessarily need to deny this and send it back, we can probably work
through some of these issues. But that's just my opinion.
De Weerd: Well, I look forward to whatever the motion is going to be.
Rountree: You guys on that end do it tonight.
Borton: I can chime in my list as well. They have been said. I have got similar
concerns. In no particular order. The Bott Lane access. The single story, double story
side. I made a list like Mr. Nary did. Sixteen foot landscape buffer on the east. Fence
on the south. Stub street. The livestock. And the open space parks. And I agree with
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May 16,2006
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the Mayor. Those are -- that's the start of my list and if it's easier and more appropriate
from staff's perspective to redo this, I'd defer to their experience and expertise in it. And
with that I'd move to deny Item 17, AZ 06-012, request for annexation and zoning.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion to deny Item 17. Is there any discussion? Mr. Berg,
you will call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, nay; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE NAY.
De Weerd: Okay. Item 18.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Borton.
Borton: I move we deny Item 18, PP 06-010, request for preliminary plat.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion to deny on Item 18. If there is no discussion, Mr.
Berg.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, nay; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE NAY.
Item 19:
Public Hearing: VAR 06-009 Request for a Variance to allow for a patio
structure in the required rear yard for 5278 N. Cougar Flat Place by Dana
& Rhonda Patterson - 5278 N. Cougar Flat Place:
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Item 19 is a Public Hearing on VAR 06-009. I will open
this Public Hearing with staff comments.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is a variance application for
5278 North Cougar Flat Place by Dana and Rhonda Patterson and you can see the
outline of the property. It is at the end of the cul-de-sac, right near the entrance to
Lochsa Falls. And so Lochsa Falls is between Under Road and McMillan as you know.
This is a picture of the patio that has been constructed. And I'm going to -- I forgot to
put the site plan in the presentation, so I will have to put in up just to ask her. These
two posts -- the setback -- the required setback is 15 feet. This post is at ten feet six
inches. This post is at nine feet nine inches. And you can see the additional posts as
you go down the property. The structure itself, this portion of -- the living portion of the
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May 16, 2006
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building, is outside the setback area. It's just they extended the roof to cover their patio
and that's where they got in trouble. Staff has recommended denial. We were not able
to make the findings for approval of the variance -- or two of the three findings for the
approval of the variance. It's a pretty straight forward application. 1'1[ go ahead and
switch to the overhead, so that you can see the site plan. As I note, I believe this -- this
dotted line shows the 15 foot setback and, then, they have marked the location of each
post and its distance to the rear yard fence -- rear yard property line. With that I will
answer any questions Council may have.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Anna, did they have a permit when they put the patio -- I won't call it a cover.
think what they -- patio cover in? Did they get a building permit?
Canning: I believe the applicant has all that information.
Bird: Okay.
De Weerd: Okay. Would the applicant like to come forward.
Canning: And she's very nervous, so you need to be nice to her.
Patterson: I'm just a mom.
De Weerd: We will be nice. If you will, please, state your name and address for the
record.
Patterson: My name is Rhonda Patterson and I'm at 5278 North Cougar Flat Place in
Meridian, Idaho. 83642. I'm going to go ahead and read this, if that's okay, so I can be
quick. Just so how you know we got to this point. Obviously, it's already built. We do
acknowledge we goofed and we are only blaming ourselves. My -- we are our own
contractors and my father is a licensed contractor and he's been guiding us through this
process, but -- he's helped us with five homes and with each home he hopes we learn a
little bit more and he steps back a little bit more. This being our fifth one, he really
wasn't that involved. Needless to say, he's not very happy with me right now, because I
messed things up. He's not here -- yeah. And he's not here tonight, because this is my
mess to clean up, so another learning opportunity. So here I am. As I said, we have
built four other homes and we had always planned to sell those homes, so we built them
to sell. This actual home we plan to stay in, because my husband won't move again.
Before we submitted plans we, of course, had our list of extras that we wanted to have
in our home and the numbers were coming in that we probably couldn't afford the patio
cover, so we submitted plans without a patio cover. Goof number one. Our plans were
approved. We started the foundation. We started framing and, then, as more bids
came in it looked like we could swing the patio, so we went ahead and added it on. We
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May 16, 2006
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did that prior to the framing inspection, because we knew the -- the inspector would be
there and he would inspect it, had no idea that it, obviously, had it been on the plan they
would have caught it at the time we would have submitted plans, but he came and -- I
want to just make sure you know we do realize if we are granted a variance, we do have
to resubmit plans with the patio cover on them and I don't want anyone to think we were
trying to get out of paying that extra permit fee, because that wasn't it. We were just
really excited we could afford the patio cover, so we jumped ahead. Obviously, that
lesson's been learned and we could have avoided this whole problem had we just
thought about what we were doing. When we put the patio cover up, we were under the
impression that all the measurements were taken from the footings and none of our
footings are in the 15 foot setback. When the inspector came through, of course, he
told us he measures from the posts and so we have marked that our posts are in -- into
the setback. He did recommend that we go ahead and talk Don at the building
department, which we did. He reviewed our problem. He did recommend that we go
ahead and apply for a variance. He noted that our request would have merit, because
we are not trying to overbuild on a small lot, it's just an odd shaped lot, specifically the
shallow depth in a logical place where the house would logically go. And that that
created a bit of a hardship. We, then, went to Planning and Zoning and at the pre-
meeting they went over their issues and their biggest issue seemed to be that two of the
posts do fall within the ten foot utility easement. One is three inches into it and one is
16 inches into it. And they did say if we were granted a variance that those posts would
either have to be moved or we would need to get a vacate of that easement and we
never did intend to get a vacate, we just -- we can move those posts without it posing
any problem. We have talked to the truss company about that. Just a few things to
consider. Obviously, because of this process and going through the neighborhood
meeting and everything we have gotten to know our neighbors quite well. Only a couple
of them actually came to the neighborhood meeting and they only came to see if they
could help. They were all very nice. We have several neighbors that actually have a
front, rear, and side view of our property and we went to them door to door and just
explained what had happened and what we had done and what we were trying to do
and, actually, they were all actually -- and in my packet they all signed letters in support
of what we were trying to do. So, to my knowledge no one has voiced any opposition.
And they have signed letters in support. The second consideration is that the patio
does give our two story an improved appearance, because it breaks up the back of the
two story and it wraps around the side and so it does show from the front and it just
offers some variance in the roof line and it does have it's own roof. It's not part of the
house roof. Let's see. All of the neighbors in the cul-de-sac felt like the addition would
improve all of our property values. Thirdly, the property behind us right now is a five
acre tree farm and they currently have planted mature trees all along the perimeter
fence line, so we have mature trees all along behind our patio. They have done this in
an effort to screen all of our development from them and it also provides us with
screening from them. So, I would imagine those trees would stay planted even after the
property is sold, if and when that happens. That tree farm currently has no plans to sell,
but when and if they do, if a residential area would go in back there, logically, the lot
behind us would be a corner lot, so we are looking at our rear lot facing someone's side
lot line. That would just be logical. Of course, I have no idea what they would end up
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May 16. 2006
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doing. And, then, fifthly, and over 800 home sites in Lochsa Falls, most of the
properties have an average of 110 to 120 feet in depth. There are some that have less.
There are just a handful that have around 95 feet in depth and that's about where we sit
with where our house sits. We do have a lot of lot space, but it's in a funny location on
the sides and the back of our property, and we set the house in the cul-de-sac so it
flowed with the existing homes that were already on -- they were already all built. So,
basically, this patio cover is 72 feet long. It's taken, obviously, a lot of time, labor,
material, and money. So, I am here before you now, knowing that a variance would
allow us to correct our problem with the least amount of expense, labor, and time and it
would allow us to fully utilize this beautiful feature. And we are at your mercy. And
thank you for your time.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird.
Bird: Mrs. Patterson, on your -- go back to the elevation, would you? No. The first one
that -- there we go. Right there. Are the trusses -- the trusses aren't strong enough if
you were to take the -- the posts out, are they?
Patterson: We have talked to the truss company about moving them out of the setback.
Bird: Yeah, you can move them back, but you can't -- you can't eliminate them.
Patterson: I can't eliminate them, no, because they are holding --
Bird: And if you get them too far in, then, if you get snow load --
Patterson: Actually, the way the truss company was looking into designing it, if we were
to move them, they, actually, said that wouldn't pose any kind of a problem with
whatever truss they had engineered to fix it. The only problem they were having was
right here on this corner.
Bird: That's what I was going to say. What's going to hold it up.
Patterson: That's the problem.
Bird: And if you move it back in you have got the two coming out. Which ones are in
your right of way.
Patterson: Can I walk over there?
De Weerd: Yeah. You will need to use the -- ma'am, if you can use that.
Patterson: Okay. This one and this one are the two that are in the easement area.
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May 16, 2006
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Bird: And they are in by three inches?
Patterson: Three inches. Three inches and 16 inches.
Bird: Okay. So -- and I take it it's the corner ones, probably, is the one that's the
farthest in and that's probably the one that's holding the most weight.
Patterson: Yes. The truss company has worked with us. On the two that are in the ten
foot easement, they are working with us on getting those moved out. So, that -- that at
this point should be doable without any stability problems.
Bird: Well, I just -- you know, I personally know that you made an honest mistake, you
didn't do it purposely and we have all made mistakes before and it can be redone, but I
-- you know, you can't -- you can't do something that hurts the integrity of the building.
That's the whole thing. And if it's already up there, I mean it would be major if you had
to go in there and take everything out.
Grady: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Grady.
Grady: I think we can work with -- if you choose to grant this, I think we can work with
the applicant to vacate easements or whatever we have to do. For a matter of a few
inches, I don't think it's a problem. I think structurally I don't think it's a good idea to be
messing with it, so --
De Weerd: I think it sounds like the greatest punishment has been facing your father. It
would have been mine.
Patterson: And right I now I live with him, because he's helping us and -- yeah, it's been
fun.
De Weerd: Any other questions from Council?
Bird: No.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Len or Bill, If you vacate that easement, is the variance needed, then?
Nary: It's the 15-foot setback.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
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May 16, 2006
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De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Now, if we grant this variance and you have to come back in with plans and
everything and at that point we can go out and inspect and make sure that everything is
still structural and everything and, Len, I want to thank you on that variance deal. I think
that's great if they can do something like that.
De Weerd: Okay. Do I have a motion, then?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would move --
De Weerd: To close the Public Hearing?
Bird: To close the Public Hearing on VAR 06-009. I was just wanting to get out of here.
Wardle: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion to close Item 19. All those in favor say aye. All
ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Bird.
Bird: Madam Mayor, I move we approve VAR 06-009, the request for a variance to
allow for a patio structure in the required rear yard at 5278 North Cougar Flat Place.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I have a question for the maker of the motion.
De Weerd: Okay.
Rountree: Would that -- the intent of that is to at a minimum move the physical
structures out of the existing easement and that the variance would allow those
structures to be within the 15 foot setback requirement?
Bird: Yes. That is my intent on it and if it's possible that they don't have to move it
within the easement, with the help of our Public Works, I am all for that and -- yes.
Rountree: Okay. I will second that.
De Weerd: Okay. We have a motion and a second. Any discussion?
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May 16, 2006
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Canning: Madam Mayor, I'm unclear now. So, if they submit a vacation application for
the easement, you would consider that and, then, decide on moving the structures with
the vacation application or did you want to condition that now. Did the question make
sense for --
Bird: Yeah. Anna -- and I -- yeah, Bill, I don't know if we need to -- if we bring that
together in one motion or not, because they have got a -- the vacation of an easement
is different than going and getting -- and all they are doing is asking for a variance from
setback; is that not right?
Canning: Correct.
Bird: And, then, is the easement within that same variance?
Canning: No.
Bird: That's what I mean. Can we have it in the same motion?
Nary: Madam Mayor, I guess I thought I understood Councilmember Bird's motion to be
to grant the variance to allow the structure to remain in the 15-foot setback, but that
there will either be no structures in the ten foot easement or that the portion that is
encroaching on the easement be vacated. So, either option of those -- so, the ten foot
easement area either has to be cleared or vacated, but the 15-foot setback variance is
what was being granted.
Rountree: That would be a whole lot easier with that vacation.
Bird: Yeah. With the vacation. That's -- yeah. Thanks, Bill. That's alii -- Anna, do you
and Will understand that now?
Rountree: That's how I understand it.
Canning: Yes. Again, Mr. Nary has worked his translation magic from Council to the
planning department and planning department to Council, so --
Bird: Okay. Well, thank you very much.
De Weerd: Mr. Berg, do you have something to add?
Berg: No. If it's in writing, it will be great. The Findings will tell it all; right?
De Weerd: Okay. If there is no further discussion, Mr. Berg, will you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Borton, nay.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE NAY.
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May 16, 2006
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Borton: It's just -- for what it's worth, my comments on the no is I -- I don't see there is
any specific characteristic of the site and I know it's -- it's a simple mistake. But
variances require certain findings and there was nothing particularly unique about this
particular piece of property that requires a variance, other than the fact that a mistake
was made and I understand it was an honest mistake and I appreciate your efforts in
trying to get it fixed, but to be a stickler for the rules I'd say that.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. The motion was passed. Just thought I'd tell you that.
Item 20:
Ordinance No. 06-1232 : RZ 04-011 Request for a Rezone of
9.16 acres from R-8 to C-C zone for Cairns Crossinq Subdivision by
Landmark Engineering and Planning, Inc. - south of West Cherry Lane
and east of Under Road:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 20 is Ordinance No. 06-1232. Mr. Berg, will you, please, read
this ordinance by title only.
Berg: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Ordinance 06-1232. An
ordinance for property located as described in Attachment A of this ordinance and
rezoning certain lands and territories situated in Ada County, Idaho, and within the
corporate limits of the City of Meridian, as required by Stubblefield Development and
Planning, Inc., and rezoning the land use zoning classification of said lands from R-8 to
C-C in the Meridian City Code, providing that copies of this ordinance shall be filed with
the Ada County assessor, the Ada County recorder, and the Idaho State Tax
Commission, as required by law, and providing for a waiver of the reading of the rules,
and providing an effective date.
De Weerd: Thank you. You have heard this ordinance read by tile only. Is there
anyone who would like to hear it read in its entirety? Seeing none, do I have a motion
to approve?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Before I make the motion to approve, I want it noted publicly that on the list of
Council it's got Donnell where it should be Borton. He is the one passing it, not Donnell.
Isn't that -- am I not right, Will? That's what ours was.
Berg: Madam Mayor, I did not go over this or correct this ordinance and when I noticed
that I thought I would probably just get the corrected copy.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this highlights the problem we have had
a couple times that you have seen. The ordinance is submitted with the development
agreement. The development agreement--
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May 16,2006
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Bird: Waited too long.
Nary: -- then waited until it was signed and brought back. Now, there has, obviously,
been a fairly significant lag when it is done, so once we have sent it, the clerks, of
course, we don't review it a second time when it gets in front of you, they just wait for
the development agreement to come back and, then, they approve it. So, I think that's
probably where the oversight may have been, but I don't know, I just--
Bird: Well, I just wanted to make sure publicly that we -- that we noticed that.
De Weerd: Okay.
Berg: Thank you, Madam Mayor. We will get that corrected before you sign the
ordinance tomorrow.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Bird.
Bird: With that I move we approve Ordinance No. 06-1232 with suspension of rules.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. We have a motion to approve and a second. Mr. Berg, will you call
roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Borton, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Okay. I would consider a motion to adjourn.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I have a question for Will.
De Weerd: Yes. I'm sorry.
Rountree: Do you have any need for the proposals, additional copies, or can we
dispose of the ones we have? Do you want to keep some around for file copies or do
you have more or --
Berg: Madam Mayor, I would collect them if you do not want to look at them anymore,
because they are a public record and if somebody does want them, I would not have to
reproduce them, I could just give them to them. And we have had quite a few of the
applicants, I guess I could say, from the proposals, who wanted just to look and see
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May 16, 2006
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what the other ones did, so they could improve theirs, maybe, the next time. So, that
would probably be good if you didn't -- if you were going to distribute it and --
Rountree: I will bring you a box.
De Weerd: I have a whole bunch, too. Hey, Council, we are submitting ideas on the
AIC City Achievement Awards. The deadline is on Friday. If you have anything that
you, in particular, think that the city does very well that should be submitted for this, I
would need to know as soon as possible, so we could start the writing up of that project
to submit for this.
Bird: Tell me one thing we don't do well.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I would suggest that the recently passed UDC and most
specifically the risk that the city undertook by ordinance that deals with highways.
That's probably the only one in the state that I know of.
De Weerd: I think Caldwell has a pretty good --
Bird: Bill's about ready to turn white.
Rountree: Well, you know, we are going to test it for everybody.
De Weerd: Might as wel!. Any other ideas that are a little bit less contentious?
Borton: State championship for Meridian High in football.
Bird: Yeah. There we go. State championship.
De Weerd: Yeah. We have a lot to do with that, I'm sure, so -- okay. Well, I would
entertain a motion to adjourn.
Bird: So moved.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. AI] those in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Thank you.
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May 16, 2006
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MEETING ADJOURNED AT 10:24 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
~~
MAYO~ TAMMY EERD