HomeMy WebLinkAbout2005 12-13 Pre
Meridian City Pre-Council Meetina
December 13. 2005
The Meridian City Pre-Council meeting was called to order at 5:05 P.M. on
Tuesday, December 13, 2005 by Council President Shaun Wardle.
Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, Keith Bird, Shaun Wardle, Charlie
Rountree and Joe Borton
Members Absent: Christine Donnell
Staff Present: Bill Nary and Will Berg.
Others Present: Josh Grant, Phil Stifler, Frank Thomason.
Item 1.
Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X Shaun Wardle
X Charlie Rountree
X
o Christine Donnell
X Keith Bird
Mayor Tammy de Weerd
Item 2.
Adoption of the Agenda:
Bird: Mr. President.
Wardle: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we adopt the agenda as published.
Rountree: Second.
Wardle: It's been moved and seconded to adopt the agenda. All in favor?
THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT. MOTION CARRIED.
Item 3.
Engaging with AspireDn:
Wardle: I would like some further information on that. Phil are you going to kick
this off or --?
De Weerd: You know I think I have talked to each of you and what this workshop
is to be about and looking at defining our roles and also bringing you up to speed
organizationally and accountability wise as to what has been going on at the
senior level management team and building an accountabilities, aligning the
values, the work plan and the mission together with our strategic initiatives and
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
December 13, 2005
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how we have been moving forward with that. AspireOn has been our consultant
and has been working-and teaching us about coaching, mentoring, engaging and
aligning so now you have heard every word that we had pounded into our heads
over this last year. But, I think it's really exciting where we have come this last
year. I know we have touched base along the way to kind of give small updates,
but we have it now compiled into a book that you have in front of you and Phil
and Josh will walk through this process and I will tell you what, it has been very
positive and I think you see that by our leadership and we are excited about what
(inaudible -------------) friendly.
Stifler: Thank you, Tammy. I am going to standup, but I am also going to sit
down because this is a workshop and I don't want it to feel like it is a presentation
and the first thing I would like to say to you is that as I go through some of this
kind of update material and get into discussions about alignment and the future
sights of the Council, along with leadership (inaudible) and the citizens of the city,
I think one of the things that I would like to engage is to please interrupt me in
any point and time. I know I have got a chance to meet most of you individually.
I think you will do that. For any clarification or answering any questions as we go
through it, I hope it's more of an interactive kind of discussion. So, the first thing I
would like to have us go to is to kind of give a little idea, a little bit of the agenda,
what we are going to talk about with a little more specifics, assuming it works is
that the first word that I will put up there that Tammy had indicated - a little bit
about where the city has been. Where it is at, both from the standpoint of what I
consider to be that all of you as Councilman, I think should be very proud of the
fact that the staff and where you positioned the city for the future. The
excellence word isn't just a consultant's word. That is a word that comes out of
the values which we are going to reaffirm a little bit and talk a little more about for
the city. My alignment word, I would like to kind of give you an idea. I know
when I talked to each of you individually; I said sometimes you think about any
organization, how do you align the strategy with the people, with the operations
and with the culture? You might say well that sounds like a lot of words, but the
reality is if you do align those, you get a better chance of optimizing the
performance that you would like to see out of that. As I have used a comparison
a little bit sometimes that related the fact that you have got the wheels of the car
going in the same directions compared to some towed out or doing different
directions, the auditions with regards to efficiency, productivity, have issues with
regard of performance and other elements. So, my compliment in the idea that I
would like to say status wise, where the city thinks - I think the foundation thanks
to the direction of the Council and the fact that leadership is embraced - what we
are going to show you a little bit on the accountability in saying okay here is a
strategy, here is a focus areas for the city, but how do we make that really work?
It's kind of the old reality side of how does it really work? So, what I am going to
do is we are going to go through and talk a little bit about this positioning for the
city and what is happening typically with regard to that accountability system
because I think it's important for you as Councilmen to understand what that
leadership and what leadership is driving throughout the whole organization.
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
December 13, 2005
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Then I am also going to talk a little bit about the input that I actually ascertained
by going to the leadership of each of the directors in the departments; having to
do how they view what can enhance that relationship communication between
Council and leadership and thirdly we will talk about input that I have even gotten
from all of you here and also I did talk to some of you (inaudible) with Christine.
She offered that I could share some of her input in the session. I know she
wants to have further discussion. I did ask her if it was okay to share some of
that input having to do with that alignment going forward. Really, you will see as
you get to this last one on alignment reinforcement, follow through (inaudible) a
conversation with Joe today about follow through, Council relationships, roles
and responsibilities and trust and creditability related to alignment with Council
and leadership taking the direction forward. You find in the packet there is action
items related to all those. I am the believer in kind of having the meeting tonight
and saying yes that is informative; kind of where does it stand, but say what does
that really mean as far as going forward? So, what I will ask you to do is if you
turn there is a - I am going to explain the whole book to you as a background,
but if you will turn to the one that has a number one, a number one kind of
column there you will see it says vision, mission and values. I just want to
remind and I think all of you have probably seen the pages in front of you there
that refers to the vision for the city, the mission; obviously you've had a part of. I
think the details of the values - I would ask the question, I don't know
communication wise, are all of Council aware of how those values how they
actually came - how they were actually created? Okay. I don't know, even the -
I don't know, maybe Shaun are you aware of how they were created?
Wardle: Is the discussion where they were created out of the 13 or 14 focus
areas and rolled up into --?
Stifler: No. The values themselves from the culture standpoint were more
related to the fact that said wait a minute as an organization, what are we going
to say to the values or behaviors that we think are significant and in support of
the culture to do the strategic there as you are talking about. But, this was not
dictated by leadership. Actually some of the people in the room here, Will
included, the actual leadership side actually took this form out of taking it and
establishing a catalyst group within the city in different departments and getting
their input with regard to looking at what are values that they feel are important to
accomplish in the mission of the city and looking at it from their standpoint of
meeting behavior. So, in this page, for example in the customer service and this
is the CARE and actually I will say to you that there is feedback, I believe that the
staff and I think Tammy and Bill and Will could speak to it, the staff actually
doesn't think those values are something to hang on the wall and they don't have
any meaning, they are now seeing the meaning out of it. But, when you see
each one of the items, if you go to page two of this, if you look at accountability,
those statements that are below each one of the depth description of the values
were statements that came from employees about establishing what they felt to
be appropriate behaviors in support of the values for the organization. So, that
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December 13, 2005
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was one that you understand to say one thing we have got is a vision and
mission, but what is the acceptable behaviors that the people want to look at.
That was the link to tie that in. This is just kind of a view to give you an idea that
we even show when actually I think Bill and Bill Musser and Will actually used
this chart when we prepared the chart for them when you met with the catalyst
because you wanted to say to the employees, you wanted to say what do values
actually have to do with down here on this? So, to understand what was actually
happening on the integrating values and you think about it in support of the
mission and the vision and where the alignment from Council to direction rated all
the way through. So, that is kind of the background which has been important
and I don't - the check on the dates. As the employees went through that and
got involved in it they have now kind of seen the meaning of that and I will tell
you that one of the inputs that I think some of you shared with me in talking to
people and citizens and businesses and everything, I think they seen a
tremendous aspect of the customer service side. I think that customer service
has identified as a value that they see what that behavior really represents in that
case and I think that is a positive thing for the city. If you then go to the next
page three in that same section, this is back from Shaun which is referring to and
having to do with the city and actually looked at identifying those 13 major areas
and we actually looked at it and said how do we narrow it down into actual focus
areas for the city? The focus areas that we brought back to the Council and went
through were of these in providing services with available resources, planning for
good growth, stewardship of the public trust and then an organizational
excellence issue. Those being the four major focus areas. Then what happened
out of that is leadership went down through in support of and in presenting and
discussing with you as Council, those initiatives the support of these focus areas.
So, that became kind of that starting point and sometimes I talked with quite a
few of you when you do planning - when you say planning and outlining you say
here is these focus areas, here is these initiatives and that is kind of like okay
now how do we actually make it work? My view is how do you put the glue on
that? I apologize, it is a little difficult to kind of see here, but what happened is in
defining this organizational excellence with working with leadership we put over
here we said Mayor and Council focus areas, guiding principals, those came
down to initiatives - then those come down to actually departmental positioning
plans, so each department has to have a positioning plan. So, if you look at the
next page on page four, you will see that to look at the next page on page four,
you will see to look at summarizing what are the major issues that each
department needs to do to support the city-wide initiatives, you will see for
example the first one is the Mayor's key areas that she identified as a positioning
plan that she needed to do to support accomplishing this for the city. If you go to
the next page, you will actually see each one, for example in the City Attorney,
HR, IT and you see those elements that they actually identified that this is what I
need to do out of my department and these means to be major issues with
actually saying, not just talking about it, but a positioning plan on how do I
execute and what do I do? So, that is how those came about. If you go onto
that, each one of these and we are going to show you a sample tonight of one of
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December 13, 2005
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the ones just to walk it through, but I will note with you right now that I am not
going to go through a bunch of these other items from on about all the way back
through ten. What you do is you have in your file, excuse me, in your folder
there, you have for each department and I will actually mention let's just take - if
you go to number two, which is the Mayor's Office, you will see you have a copy
right now of the description of each and the success expectations and I will go
through this form a little bit later, but you are going to see those things that she
has identified as an actual action plan for her and you see a positioning plan first
from her then you actually go through and you will track that through to back to
her accountabilities. If you go to number three - just on Bills, he happens to be
sitting here. I will use Bill as an example. You actually have his and you will
track it through and so what's happened is I want to make sure that - this is
important, I guess, in any organization when I talk to you, which I think is really
unusual for a city, you have a city that has taken the effort that says leadership
has said we are going to take hold. We are just not going to talk about planning.
We are not going to talk about (inaudible). How are we going to do something to
execute and make it happen? So, these have gone through and you actually
have seen an example and I will walk you through that. Well, what do we really
need to do from an implementation standpoint? We have a discussion and I
would say to you that in the catalyst training that we have done for the
leadership, Will sat here - Bill and Tammy have all been through it. It gets down
to how do you look at resource requirements? How do you look at efficiency
productivity? How do you look at assigning that and it falls over to
accountabilities? So, that is kind of and I am going to leave that up there
because it will help, I think, a little bit of tracking it through that you could feel
comfortable in saying, okay if we provide direction here and we are in alignment
here and this is a direction then how do you get it done? And again, how do you
get it done has to do when the people do not know the expectations for their
accountabilities, it really doesn't happen. There is a copy of that worksheet in the
very back of your - have I lost anybody yet?
De Weerd: This has happened over a period of time, so it didn't happen over
night.
Stifler: Actually, the first time we put this chart up and I will share this with you
and Bill was here, Will will even attest to this. The first time we put this chart up, I
think everybody looked at it and we were talking about how leadership,
management supervisors had to track this through, everybody kind of looked at
me and I think a few of us said Phil wait a minute, they were kind of gone. It's
interesting this week and we are now into level two in some of these
accountabilities for people in each department. I shared with Tammy and Bill
yesterday and said now we have got everybody and kind of a light bulb is going
on and they are going hey now I understand how this all links in and how I am
responsible in what I am doing to help support all the way up to what the city
decided up here; whether it's stewardship or the accountability, the efficiency
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December 13, 2005
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product, whatever it may be and you are going to see that these get more
specific. These are more specific as we get into them.
De Weerd: Phil?
Stifler: Yes.
De Weerd: I might add too, on the success expectations as you look at some of
those key areas and the initiatives. Those can change. I mean they are fluent
because what we did is we started at the top and as they start developing their
position descriptions or PADS for the rest of the down line. That can now come
back up and kind of tweak some of these things. The words might change and
they might have another item, but that's what makes this really nice and dynamic
and it's dynamic in that we bring in all the input and it will flow up and maybe
change some of the expectations that I have when I meet with the directors one
on one. So, the initiatives stay the same, but maybe the success expectation
might change a little bit being refined.
Wardle: Just to follow up on what the Mayor says. Is that kind of a buzzword is
that the PAD?
Stifler: Yeah.
Wardle: Is that what I understood? Does that stand for a position, accountability
and -
Stifler: Definitions.
Wardle: Definitions?
Stifler: Position, accountability and definitions and now everybody in the city is
kind of do I have my PAD yet? Have I reviewed the PADS? It's kind of become
more of a terminology. So, if you go back to as Tammy just mentioned, if you go
back to the second page in your booklet - I know I am kind of flipping you back
and forth, but if you go back right after the agenda what I did is I summarized a
little bit of - it's actually the page that says dynamic accountability, it's the second
page in your whole packet and when Tammy said the word dynamic, I want to
reinforce that and I picked out just a couple of items to kind of give an overview
on it. If you look at number two, what is this whole PAD? It's an instrument for
achieving clarity and increasing ownership of expectations; roles and
responsibilities for positive execution of accountability results. These aren't the
consultant's words. It's interesting. This has come out by doing sessions with
the leadership. These are words and now we've summarized after talking to the
people about how when it comes to communicating saying why are we doing
this? Why does it make sense? So they understand it and take ownership in it.
Number seven, I will go there. It's a tool which necessitates focus and that's
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December 13, 2005
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where even you heard Will using engagement? Engagement, communication,
negotiation, clarity of direction and I think in a way when you think about why we
said alignment, you kind of always think about the fact is there a clarity - if you
can point people, I don't care if it's any business, if you are pointing them in the
direction, you are providing part of that alignment and I have asked people who
have said to me because I have used that a lot in the business side and the
private business and said wait a minute how do we know when we are aligned?
And somebody go well old adages - well you will just know it. Well, that is not
quite where it is, what it really gets down to is you know it in a way when your
business is in sync, people are doing the things that you expected them to do.
You are performing in those things and in a way it kind of becomes more of there
is a clear line of sight, I guess. A clear line of sight from the strategy, from
management all the way down through the people. I guess that is the best way
that I can describe it. So, then I think that if you go down to this objectives
capabilities overview, I just will mention number one. It says it facilitates
performance optimization while promoting efficiency and productivity. I will tell
you right now that you have a city, in my opinion, and my opinion comes from
Josh, who all of you have met who works with me, he has worked with a lot of the
cities - we have worked out of comparable sizes, some bigger, some smaller, but
the majority of them are in the same range as the City of Meridian. I think right
now that you have a platform where you have a staff that is now looking at how
do we optimize what we do and they think about it. There is an attitude. There is
an understanding of it. I know Keith traveled around enough in the city to look at
it and there is a mindset regarding that kind of accountability. Is it all the way
where you want it? It's always a work in process and I think that the bottom line
is though you have got a solid foundation and you have got management
leadership or reinforcing that kind of behavior and so I will even say that if you
look at number four there, I said provides a method for dynamic performance
evaluation and follow up engagements, I defer to Sill a little bit that what's
happened out of this position accountability, we aren't reinventing a wheel. That
position accountability process becomes down and dirty simple, that is part of the
performance evaluation. I will let him kind of -
Nary: What we are doing with those PADS, the purpose of those PADS is for
basically building that expectation and accountability into the employees. So, we
do those on the front end and the objective is as we work through each year, you
have quarterly reviews. You have an opportunity for input. Those PADS are
going to change; they are going to reach milestones that you are going to take
off. You are going to have benchmarks that maybe you will have to readjust
because of other factors and (inaudible). At the end of the process, we are ready
to implement probably until January a new evaluation tool, which will relate to the
PADS because the PADS are already ongoing processes, so as you begin each
year you are going to be looking at those PADS as part of your evaluation tool
and at the end of the period, while you are doing a sort of an end of the year
eval, we are going to be assessing those behaviors that the form we are going
from is that ten or twelve page form that you have all seen over the years that is
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December 13, 2005
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very complicated and very unusable for people to a two page form that really just
is there to create that dialogue to assess those behaviors, to assess that I guess
for a lack of a better term it's a very much of a cultural shift that we have had
over the last couple of years to get people to understand that the focus of the city
is to be aligned, to be working towards a common goal that everyone and one
way that I always promoted to my staff is everyone that works here should
recognize through those PADS, through our conversation, through that dialogue
that you would have ongoing what their role is in the city's goals. What you folks
set as policy and direction of the city, relates to people implementing them in
some fashion, whether it's somebody that cuts the grass or mucks out the
digester or files paper or whatever they do has a relationship to those goals.
They should all feel like we are pushing the rock the same way and in many
organizations, unless you are really, really small - and I don't know the size of
(inaudible----) but if you are real small you could probably feel it because there is
not that many people to spread the work around. But, if you get very large of any
size you don't always feel that. Having worked in a really large organization, I
can tell you that very few people think what they do on Monday has a relationship
with what the Council decides on Tuesday and the objective of what we are
trying to accomplish here is that exact thing. That they understand that when the
Council makes a direction, when the Council takes a pathway at something and
gives you direction or guidance of the city whether it's through the budget or
through their actions your folks take, that impacts how we do our business and
how we then transmit that back to the public because we are trying to accomplish
the same goals and the tools we use to measure it, everyone works based on
how you measure it. What you evaluate them on is what they know is important
to you. So, what we evaluate people on is what their goals are, what their
functional accountabilities are to accomplish those goals and how the behaviors
match up with the behaviors that we have established with the city that matters;
customer service, accountability, respect, excellence and they then have the
opportunity to own all the outcomes. If you are a part of what's going on and you
feel like part of your role is moving the city forward and being a part of it, you are
much more accountable for the outcome and what happens. If you don't care
and you don't feel like you are a part of it then it doesn't matter. You turn the
screw, you don't turn the screw it doesn't make any difference. But, it does when
you feel like and the communication and the message that you get over and over
from the Council, the Mayor, the Directors is what you do matters and here is
why it matters and here is how we told you that it matters and we consistently
reinforce that.
Rountree: In this process (inaudible--------------) is there an extreme mechanism
(inaudible)? Do the PADS take people beyond what their job position,
descriptions will allow them to be compensated for so we don't have (inaudible---
-----) and somebody's PAD all of sudden has responsibilities that exceed
(inaudible~------------------). Actually to evaluate it, (inaudible---------)
compensation (inaudible). How does that factor in? I like what I hear about
(inaudible) people with this process, but if all of a sudden we throw people off
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December 13, 2005
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and into an expectation (inaudible-----------), now compensating because now I
am (inaudible-------------.;----).
Nary: I think part of that will be discussed as we revolve around budgets. I
mean, one of the objectives each department has to do in the budget process is
make that evaluation annually - what are people doing? What are they
supposed to be doing? What are they really doing? Because usually they are
not always the same and then making those decisions - should we be looking at
reclassifying that job? Have they evolved into a different position? Is that
position compensated differently? That is a different factor. You know there is a
different way to make that assessment. Part of the reason why last year we
changed our pay rate compensation structure was to be able to address those.
We created a larger bans of jobs, so that we could push the bans up for - so, just
because you are doing job "x" that evolves into a different job, it may not
necessarily move out of that ban (inaudible--------).
Rountree: That's factored into the (inaudible----) I mean the concept is factored
into the compensation structure (inaudible----------).
De Weerd: Well and Charlie in developing the PADS, it had a great relationship
with the job descriptions and with the strategies that were consolidated into more
focused areas last year and you should see that we've entered these.
Stifler: But your question is so valid because of connectivity. You know this
because you and I have talked about this. That connectivity and that's why the
meaningful side of the past performance evaluation - what's that mean to me? I
am an employee. What is my reward? How does that relate to it? You can set
the bar, but if you don't provide the connectivity integration or synergy the guy
goes wait a minute. So, the part I will get back to is what Bill said is the important
thing too is when that new performance evaluation links directly with the PAD -
remember when I talked about where did the values come from and the
behaviors, we are already seeing managers, Bill can speak to this or Will could.
If you have got behaviors that the employees took ownership in and defined and
then you are now sitting down with that employee going "whoop" that is not the
behaviors that you help create within the values related to that goes on to
evaluation, what is expected? In my own view is again, I said this to a few of you
accountability begins at the beginning of setting expectations and so as Bill and
from a financial budgeting side, the perfect thing is the PAD becomes that basis
to look at evaluation related to compensate allows that opportunity and as
Tammy said dynamic. As that gets fine tuned, it even actually - the foundation's
(inaudible) make that be as meaningful as it possibly can and to the individual
and to the success of the organization.
Wardle: Well, one of the questions I have is this still a subjective process with
the supervisor and employee? One of the things - and Charlie talks about job
description and I can see we have had some conversations with the city in the
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December 13, 2005
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past where some supervisors have had a lot of interaction with their employees
and had done perform-ance plans and really taken the time to do that. In our old
process they had five categories to choose from - vision, you know excels and
competent were the three that I remember and there is two in between and any
way, my question is is that sort of behavior still going to happen or do we have
that also built into the frame?
Nary: I don't know if you can ever get completely away from some subjective
analysis by the supervisor. But one of the things, I guess, the differences that I
see that we are trying to do and I don't know if every director has done this, I
think most if not all of them have. All of my folks have my PAD. They know what
my expectation is that I am supposed to meet to meet yours and the Council's
needs, so their PADS have a relationship for that because they know if I am
supposed to carry this out and what I am being held accountable for, then there
is going to be a lot of similarities in the things that their expectations to meet are
going to be related to what mine are. That is not common in most organizations
that I am aware of that you would share your expectations and requirements as
to the department director with all of your staff. But, that way they could see the
connection that exists so when they look at it and they can say oh weill am doing
this because Bill is supposed to be doing that, so I understand what my role is.
Does it take some of the subjectivity out of it? You know probably some because
you are going to be looking at benchmarks and milestones in these PADS that
are expectations to reach. Now again if things are not met because of internal,
external factors, that is fine, but the purpose of this is to have a dialogue. But, at
the end of the day, yes, some of - I mean, the one thing you can't get away from
when you are merit based performance system like we have is somebody has to
at some point be able to mark are they pass I fail. Or in some fashion could
make a relationship to what compensation they then get as a merit increase.
One of the things we tried to do this year is we kept it two because what happens
a lot of time is when you have three people tend to pick the middle one because
it's easier. But, we did give them three options on what increases they could
provide for employees and we didn't find that they consistently picked the middle
one for that. We gave them a range because even an outstanding employee
may be plus or minus from the mean and that may give them the opportunity to
sort of say well they have got some room to grow. They may be outstanding in a
lot of ways, but they still have got room to get better and I need to provide that.
Some are really at the top of their performance and they should be rewarded for
that as well. So, we gave them that level of I guess subjectivity or flexibility in the
merits themselves, but on the form you know there is a lot more specifics and
now we are going to be addressing more specific things that have been put in
their expectations. You know they are not going to be quite so fuzzy on these,
they are going to be a lot more task driven or oriented toward their particular job
functions that they have.
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December 13, 2005
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De Weerd: It's quarterly and you have that written document in front of it, so the
employee has that quarterly interaction with their supervisor and that serves as
the documentation for the annual review too, so there is no surprises.
Wardle: What I heard is you given them a tool (inaudible) you know essentially
three of a merit base, once you pass I fail; they have got another tool that goes
beyond that that we didn't have before this year.
Stifler: And also, Shaun, that tool, the good part about it is because I like your
questions that one of the things that we got feedback on when we were first
working was some of the departments is this is the old thing everybody sitting in
this room may say well surprises, well, we didn't know what was really expected
or you talk about did they actually engage in communicating? The PAD is a tool
not only to track the accountabilities related to the overall organization, it's a tool
that enforces the engagement and the negotiation because the way these have
been done is Tammy sat down, she sat down with everyone of her director
reports, laid out what she thought to be the expectation - it was a negotiation buy
in, it was like (inaudible) so there had to be an understanding of the success
expectations for that and the measurements milestones related to it. We had a
meeting with one of the department's this week and I was kind like I was saying
to the two of them the other day, it was cool because you saw the light bulbs
going on because the next level managers down are now seeing that they were
shared theirs from their director. They have now gone through and now they are
taking down to the next level, but what they have done is they understand that
they have ownership buy in that the requirement that they have to engage with
that employee, their next level, they have to manage, mentor and - it provides a
tool that says no you can't avoid it. You can't avoid the discussion. You have
got to have that kind of engagement discussion with them and that is one of the
benefits out of the whole thing otherwise it has no other meaning. Otherwise,
just a piece of paper thrown in a file some place and before if there wasn't even
this, there wasn't no evaluation form, which everybody said they hated because
the way it is you spent more time worrying about filling out the form than you ever
did engaging with the person that you should about the kind of things related to
constructive positive performance. And this is not just meant to be negative
performance; it's the other side of it. We are setting the bars, so when you see,
you will see a component of it, which I go through one of the examples is in
leadership development. It's in the idea of setting that bar. It's in transformation
or change and some of the things that they are having to do in culture. I guess
that is where I get excited about it because I see the city doing things that I have
private company clients are having difficulty getting to kind of putting where the
rubber meets the road kind of thing and what really needs to happen. So, I'll
show you one example because when you look at your -
Bird: Looking this year, I see a big difference. The thing I (inaudible-----------~--)
is because of personality and who is my favorite person and don't ever kid
yourself that does happen because I have many guys working for me and I have
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
December 13, 2005
Page 12 of 30
my favorites and that personality wise we hit it off. This time I have been getting
monthly printouts on raises from the department and I think it has been fair. If
nothing more it's overdone and it has got the favoritism out of it. There is still
some I am sure we'll find, but not like it used to be. It's not what you do, it's who
you (inaudible) and this program has taken care of that ninety percent.
Borton: Can I ask a question?
Stifler: Sure, Joe.
Borton: Does the PAD of the supervisor or a particular level, would that require
(inaudible--------) have all their employees build their PADS?
Stifler: Yeah.
Borton: (Inaudible------) one employee doesn't fill the requirements, does that
then just trickle all the way up? I mean, the supervisor didn't fill it because their
employee didn't -
Stifler: It's trickling down. It's trickling down and what I am saying is in the PAD
it's going down. Right now we are through all the senior, all the top level
directors have completed, they have been through the PAD. The next level down
has gone to the next manager / supervisor. They have a responsibility, for
example, you will see in the PADS, if you see Tammy's, there is times when -
you guys have the description and you have the actual success expectation. The
milestones are all filled out for all the people. To be honest, we didn't throw the
milestones in because that is an operating management thing that's in fact
compared to the Council level, the strategic side of looking at that management
side. But, she has put deadlines, for example, Bill has a responsibility to have all
his direct reports have to have their PADS completed by an "x" date. There is a
milestone to it. So, to get to your question, you want it to get down to that level
so that those PADS, even though down when it gets below a manager or
supervisor, what we discussed even right now in the Police Department, we have
gone from the Chief to the Lieutenants. This Friday they are having a meeting.
The Sergeants are actually developing their PADS. They are going to have the
PADS for the Patrol Officers, too. But, the point is that they may change a little
bit in the terminology or the words. Meaning that in a leadership standpoint we
want to make sure they have meaning. They will functionally be the same. They
will still fit the performance review in the process, but they might change in name.
It may not say, I will use an example transformation, which all the senior
management might - you know it might say change. Instead of saying
leadership it may say career development. It depends on - the Police they want
to look at it - it will still be functionally the same.
Nary: If I may follow up, too, Joe on your question. One frustration I used to
have where I used to work is we would sometimes have a very poor performing
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
December 13, 2005
Page 13 of 30
employee who was to be disciplined for some purpose and I was usually the one
asking the question of what has your supervisor been doing? I mean, how did
this person get so out of whack and nobody seemed to catch that? So, many
times, well not many times, but sometimes, we would at least be able to deal with
the supervisor too because they should be held accountable because they
obviously let this situation get way out of line. I mean they are never very
successful at getting a little further up the chain because again everyone in that
is supposed to be accountable. I think this does tend to work both directions. If I
have an employee who is not meeting expectations and if it is not in my direct
report or somebody else's, well, I should be holding that person accountable -
what does this person need? How do we get them on track? If they are not what
are you doing to hold them accountable because I am going to hold you
accountable for that because ultimately she is or you are as to how we are doing
things. So, it is supposed to work both directions.
Stifler: And I will invite you - please when you get a chance to go back to some
of the ones in the individual departments, particularly, like where you are the
liaison to the department. Look at, for example, what the director has actually
outlined in all those areas. I am going to quickly go through one example and it's
only one out. This is actually the Police Department's positioning plan - one
element of it. The positioning plan is numerous - you will see it's several pages,
but I just wanted to walk you through one here - focus areas real quick. One of
those relates to the focus area - planning, growth, anticipation. Bill identified
responsibility for himself and for Lieutenant Stowe because it related to what's
going on. Here is the assumption's he made. Here is the impacts - the critical
success factors that he viewed in that position plan and these started to become
part of the objectives. But, later on in the PADS you will see it end up coming out
as part of those milestones. Go ahead Josh. So, this positioning plan then
turned in and he said okay how do I really implement it? So, he turned this into
kind of okay here is the objectives that came out of that positioning sheet and for
each one of those objectives it goes right across. Now, he actually has finished
this up. You know kind of tied into everything going into it. So, you can kind of
see - this is only one piece of his. I will tell you that you have got to understand,
your leadership side and Tammy will attest to this and Will can - when we first
threw this at them, I mean, I thought they were going to throw me out of the room
one day and say geese Phil this is too much paper, all this stuff. Now, since they
have embraced it and took hold of it because I think leadership's direction where
they saw it, now it is kind of cool. They look at it as it is a road map about what
they are really doing and how they take their departments in a way.
Wardle: Just one of the questions I have and I am uncertain on how it flows. Is
there a prioritization within the department within each of these or are they all --?
Stifler: No, actually you will sometimes see the prioritization that shows up here
in target milestones. It also means within even this timeframe and it may be the
success definitions. So, when you get a chance to look at the whole police one,
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you will see how they have outlined related to over here - you will even see a
contingency thing I will use an example of police where Bill felt it was very
important, I think through talking with Tammy, she gave direction. What if there
is costs - what if we look at - how do we still deploy those services if we still
have to look at - we cannot keep up with that. Yeah, to deploy out kind of a
contingency plan of saying how do I deploy limited resources and still accomplish
the mission? And you will see that in there related to have a contingency plan.
So, then this is an example. Again, we only took one element. When you go to
Bill's actually you are going to see quite a few in here and functional that Tammy
and he sat down with -you are going to see more in strategic and in the
leadership. So, if you look at it, for example, if you look at this and Tammy has
assigned - every director has a responsibility with regard to that stewardship of
the public trust as part of the focus area and they have got requirements is
defined in what he then says what is the success expectation? And you see here
even adjusting based on a patrol output, impact on CID and record workloads.
Here is his milestones on that particular one and again, what Bill was saying, Bill
Musser took this and sat down with the Lieutenants, showed them here is what
his is, now they have got to support that going on through and now it's going on
down to the sergeant's side. So, you can kind of get an idea even looking at
Patrol. You guys are all aware that focus on an issue and problem solving
encouraged - the job gets done. This is in transformation of looking what do we
do with patrol? You guys have all known that with the city growing, so he has
identified that as a major issue. Growth - you know appear as strategies, same
kind of thing. So, you also have within those four columns when you see one of
those PADS, you are going to see functional, strategic, leadership and
transformation. We just pulled just one sample so you could kind of see how it
flows. The nice thing about it and I don't want to get away from this is this is
intended to ensure the dynamic side of the process and in adjusting those plans,
but it also ensures the engagement that needs to be done on a quarterly basis.
The people already are starting to see that they also can use it as a tool. They
pull it out and they can say where do I stand? It's almost a self time mechanism.
It serves that purpose. So, it's not meant to be just a tool that has one
application. It needs to fit in all of this and I guess - I know you can't see this,
accountability, performance and stewardship. If I look at what's this tool do?
And then it ties into the whole mentoring, coaching, success you will see and
Tammy's directed everyone of the directors, they have to be looking at
succession planning. They have to be looking at cross-training. It can't be well
we talked about it and we didn't do anything about it. So, those are in there. So,
anyway.
De Weerd: There is a couple of them under leadership may be personal that we
took out of our profile and you have probably seen one that will shock you on
that.
(Inaudible discussion)
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
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Stifler: The leadership what Tammy said, though, is the leadership side for each
one of the individuals is very directly related to what they have taken ownership
in their own leadership development and things they need to do to help carry this
out. So, anyway any other questions on that?
De Weerd: That is the closest you will see that I have to (inaudible).
Stifler: Shaun, did you have something?
Wardle: Just a question and I am thinking about and I (inaudible-------------) have
these conversations. The one thing that I can see within this process creates a
lot of accountability within the position. The one thing that I am trying to find is
how that individual - let's take somebody from the Engineering Department who
may get five or six of these PADS and five of the six are related to engineering or
calculations and one of those is related to leadership development. I can see
that and I am just using this as an example because I know one or two engineers
and I can see that those five become very high priority as opposed to leadership
development, which is something that I think we have had a focus within the city.
How does that not get shelved and when you have someone that is a great
performer, performs those five tasks, those PADS exceptionally well doesn't
really focus on leadership development bringing the director reports up? Is that
built into --?
Stifler: Yeah, it is. In fact, that is why if you go back over here, you see the
areas of the PADS, every PAD includes functional responsibilities, strategic just
as you just said. The reason that we designed it that way it includes leadership
and it includes transformation change. So, it means a person can't say I am
going to ignore all that leadership stuff and -
(Tape turned over)
Stifler: -- important and I guess the part is that when they sit down with their
boss, that is important in that prioritization in identifying and they have to look at
this whole thing so they can't say oh I don't want to do anything with mentoring or
coaching because I only have got time to do this. That is why even looking at the
status where it is -- there is another piece, but it's really important. The other part
that this does and it has happened within the directors is this goes cross
functional because there is things within leadership or transformation or change
where Planning and Zoning need to be coordinating - if you look at some you will
see having to do what Tammy has directed, there needs to be better
communication and coordination so the left hand knows what the right hand is
doing. One of the things she challenged us to make sure we kind of tracked in
looking as these were completed that we didn't miss any of those synergies or
those integration that needed to be there. I think the department heads like that
because they see that that requires that kind of communication in between the
departmental line .
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
December 13, 2005
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De Weerd: And you Will probably see that next year in the budget request, you
know, more detailed in (inaudible) training areas and that sort of thing. Because
it will tie back to each PAD.
Wardle: (Inaudible--------) perspective just personally. Seeing how a position ties
to the department and achieves that success is going to be a whole lot easier to
understand why it's important as opposed to we need two more people because
- or this department got two more people so we need three more. It will certainly
help me make a better decision at that budget level.
Stifler: Well, I can say this to you for the private sector where we used a
company similar to this, that's what's been really needed. If this gets ingrained
and done and then you are looking at organizational alignment or assessing how
that sits, you have got a whole different data of information and due diligence to
understand it. And back to your point, is exactly why I keep calling it - this is kind
of the glue. I worked with too many companies over 25 years that really never _
they talked about this, but they never did it.
De Weerd: But, Shaun, too, one of the things that you know came out in our
interviews for the communication's person is it is a new position, so you know
what are my day to day - we have already developed a PAD for that position
based on some of my key objectives and the department's key objectives have _
all of this creates that, I don't know, fluid motion that no one department is an
island that a lot of the responsibilities kind of overlap into another department and
so it has blurred the lines and that has been the unique part of the process as
well.
Rountree: Let me understand the mechanics of the process. (Inaudilbe------------
-----------------------------). This example that have got functional, accountabilities
(inaudible------------) you have got your teaching responsibilities and then you
(inaud ible-----------------) transformation responsibilities and of course
expectations. When you negotiate this, (inaudible---------------------------). When
you translate this into the performance evaluation and subjectivity (inaudible------)
are these various areas - you have got four areas (inaudible-------------) and not
supposed to change (inaudible---------------------), but are they waiting in such a
way as getting Shaun's question (inaudible) employees (inaudible-------) really do
succession (inaudible) and that was maybe not waiting as high as functional
transitional (inaudible) and strategic piece. How does that come to bare in
(inaudible) performance evaluation?
Stifler: My response is that we have other companies where they have been
weighted already. They have been in the process. Right now today as it is in the
implementation side they are not weighted other than in the - where it is
identified here by the manager. They have the opportunity and the tool allows
you to weight that in the communication side that it becomes identified here and
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
December 13, 2005
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then when it comes to the performance evaluation and I didn't bring a form of that
tonight that we have actually worked on - that form can allow the specifics to the
PAD refers to this format here. So, today is it weighted and specifically weighted
in that percentage as of today? No, it is not. Has the tool the capability to do
that? But, I have to tell you, honestly as Tammy said, it's come a long ways.
The leadership and everybody is it's there now - the idea is getting into this, they
have taken ownership of it and you are right, it has the opportunity to give even a
more formalized waiting as it goes forward. Right now it is still based on a
negotiation side and even in the process, I should mention to you is that it has
been really exciting because what has happened is when the - even when
Tammy sat down with each of the directors and said here is kind of the elements
I look at. She identified part of these and then would say to Will what do you see
as a success expectation? What do you see as a - so it became that kind of
ownership in that process.
De Weerd: Well, you know, I guess too that tool is being developed right now, so
if there is no - nothing definitive] but I would appreciate your evaluation of this
and keep that because a lot of the questions are very good to lend to the further
refinement of that evaluation tool.
Nary: Well, and one of the things that we have made clear to the employees is
this is part of your evaluation tool. I mean, this is part of it too. It isn't that we just
do this every quarter and then we put it on a shelf and give you a different
document. There will be a different document in addition to that] but if you are
doing this then this is part of it. So, it would really be a disconnect if you had
milestones and expectations in here that you weren't reaching and you are
making note in that quarterly and then at the end of the day you say, but I sure
like you. Yeah, you get top rate because you show up every day. Someone is
going to see that whether it's the director, whether it is the Mayor, someone is
going to see that and recognize that. I read every evaluation that comes through
to some degree, not every word, but to some degree to make sure that it
matches what they are giving somebody. If somebody has a very significant
raise, I read that evaluation to see that it makes sense and vice-a-versa to make
sure that it makes sense and connects. So, someone is going to see that if there
is not a connection.
De Weerd: Well, and you will know because it's somehow the person that is your
direct report is not completing a certain thing, so there is something there and it
gives you the tool to say okay what is going on in this regard. So, then that puts
some accountability to that rating system as well.
Wardle: One thing (inaudible---------) as opposed to (inaudible-------n-----). One
thing that I can see with an organization as large as ours is that we are doing a
lot of good work up top with the directors and with the managers and one thing
that I would caution to say to make this successful at the ground level is to set all
the expectations and we are going to weight these areas - weight them so that
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
December 13, 2005
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when that individual at the front line gets their PAD, they know exactly what it is
going to take to achieve that and then that also in my opinion allows their
manager or their supervisor focusing tools now that the ground (inaudible) as
been set.
Stifler: What I think - one of the things that I didn't mention is that one of the
things as Tammy implemented this and as Bill directed kind of what we are
doing, we need to have (inaudible---------) is that part of things is that what we call
these level one, level two managers have gone through a performance catalyst
training thing setting this stage up for mentoring and coaching over the last
twelve months (inaudible) out. It gets down to the next level of those
expectations when they talk about implementing and executing this. The
expectations that you just said Shaun are so important, no different than those
direct at us with regard to performance evaluation. You are not going to just
send out the form and say here - you know, it's tied into those right now of being
able to give them the training and support to see how the whole thing connects
so that when they go down to sit down and Josh works for me, but there is a
communication about that because you are right, that's where it breaks down.
This can all break down if you don't - with the whole intent about this
expectation, if you don't implement it with the setting of expectations and
following it through -
De Weerd: But, Phil, just to also wrap this up is as you get down to that the
training that they receive - we have already seen benefits from it and we have
already heard from the front line workers that there is a noticeable difference in
the communication. This is even a better tool to give them to communicate with
front line workers and for the front line workers to influence the success
expectations on the way back up. Like I said, you know, I think it's a very
dynamic tool that, yes, the PADS haven't gotten down to the front line worker yet,
but they have seen all of this and they have already seen some of the benefits of
the mid-management training and the coaching, mentoring that kind of aspect.
Wardle: Well, and I think it's - we are getting to the point - just some
implementation strategy stuff that is going to come up. I go back to one of my
college professors that said first thing last. You show up and you study for the
test and you will get a "C". If you show up, study the test, read the book you are
going to get a liB". If you want to understand this you are going to get an "A".
That was it. I am not going to tell you what I got.
Stifler: I will say this. I think that all of the directors have done a good job of
communicating some of those elements or issues and they are having that
implementation and we have been able to support - I use that example, we had
a meeting that next level down in one of the departments that were really cool
because the light bulbs and how they were looking at connecting the dots, it's
just neat to kind of see it happen. Okay. I am going to change -
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
December 13, 2005
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Nary: Just one more thing. That last training session that we had with the
supervisors, the department heads, the senior level management. It was exactly
the same thing that Phil is saying. We have many people, even the directors that
went oh I get it now. I get what I sat through the other hour for. What all of the
pieces, how it worked and what the intent was. But, before when they were just
looking at part of it, you know, it's just like an assembly line, if all you do is turn a
screw, you don't know what the car looks like on the other end. But, because
they had been involved in all the parts of it, they could see the end of it and then
like Phil is saying, now the next level of supervision or management that we
have. They are seeing the same thing too. Now they get it. There is a
connection. It wasn't - you know none of these pieces were meant to be little
standard parts, I mean, it's like Charlie's question on compensation. Well, that's
why we tried to change the compensation structure, so that this would fit together
better so it is not one little piece at a time, but it as it evolves it becomes one
cohesive unit.
Borton: Who has access to who's PADS within a department? Is everyone
seeing everyone else's, when it's finally finished?
Nary: You know I shared my PAD with all of my employees in my department. I
gave it to all of them. To me those aren't - you know the evaluation piece of it as
the quarterly parts get done, those are evaluation tools so to me those are things
that the employee has a privacy interest in to some degree because now they
are being evaluated. What their expectations are? I don't particularly care, but I
think each employee gets to make that call as it gets further down the chain.
Borton: (Inaudible--------------------) Parks and Wastewater (inaudible-----------------
-----------------------).
Nary: I would rather it went through the employees themselves to that rather
than -
De Weerd: But this is now a public document. So, everyone will this. They will
see what is at the department level.
(Inaudible discussion)
De Weerd: Because it's a work plan basically.
Borton: People say well I know what my PAD looks like, but I am curious what
the guy-
Stifler: It's interesting how (inaudible) restricted, but I have to tell you that when
we were at the Police the other day all the lieutenant's were sharing each others
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
December 13, 2005
Page 20 of 30
De Weerd: Well, I know everyone wants to see City Council's PADS.
Stifler: Well, we haven't talked - Joe, your question-
Nary: I certainly think this portion is why we put in here, the functional and those
kinds of things. I don't think there is any reason that anybody couldn't share that
information because, again, expectations - you know, should we be open to the
public's view of that? I don't have a problem with that. It makes people crazy.
We really haven't talked about whether or not - where that would fit in say a
public records, type of scenario. But, certainly in a department, I don't think even
in my department, even though we have distinct little pieces in our department.
You know I am hopeful that most of the people will have the same attitude as the
lieutenant's do. It's not a secret. Not a big deal. We all are expected to - we are
a team. Now because we are so reliant on each other to get to the end, it makes
a lot more sense.
Stifler: Well, I guess that is why (inaudible) question, I have to tell you that-
De Weerd: Well, see, because mine was a secret.
Stifler: We have already seen in some of the departments that they are utilizing
this. Keith knows this even out at wastewater. By this discussion and sharing it's
enhancing the team side of the support that the individual says what's the team
accountability, what's the self accountability? I tell you that that's where the
rubber meets the road, too, that all of sudden if you take this and those people
are sharing and understand they are on a common ground in the direction they
are going, it's cool. So, we are already seeing that from a team side in different
areas. Okay, I am going to skip ahead. If you actually go back to the front of
your book, actually right after that accountability it's marked page three and it
says director's input to leadership alignment. Kind of in the discussion of the
alignment when I had a chance to talk with each of you individually, we had
actually gone and we said okay, here is this whole process here to kind of be
able to fill the Council in a little bit on where the meat is related to that as a
foundation going forward. The next chart kind of a simplified chart there as
maybe you can see it, page three on the very front. It's in this book right here,
Tammy. Just implicitly looking at it from the standpoint of the city, obviously, you
as Councilmen, we look at Council, Mayor and having to do and looking up weird
policy budget setting under state statutes, you know looking at what is this?
Then we look over here at operations with regards to Tammy's responsibility with
regard to the Mayor and the Directors and I didn't continue that on down, but if
you still look at that in the practicality as it is that is kind of saying well where do
those align? How does this tie into this whole other thing I was talking about,
execution and implementation? The next chart that Josh has there is if you look
at it related to excellence, this is where I kind of say that we talked about vision,
mission and values and we talked about what was going on and the whole
strategic execution side. You have got Council, Mayor and Directors, in my view
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
December 13, 2005
Page 21 of 30
is how do you align those so everybody is on a common ground? Do you still
have the direction and-the ultimate public responsibility of providing that direction,
but it gets down to the idea of how do you make sure there is alignment and I
guess one of the things you might say is there good communication? So, what
we did at Tammy's request we had talked at the directors and that is why on
page three, we have summarized and some of the things I shared with you a little
bit are what are some of the issues, I say issues, positive, potential, constructive
opportunities for enhancing a little bit that communication. I also had a chance to
talk with Keith and Charlie and Shaun and actually with Christine and I talked to
Joe today a little bit about what do you guys see as some of those opportunities?
So, what I would like to do is just go down this list a little bit of discussion and talk
about that going forward to the idea well what could be some improvements in
some areas? I am going to use - I say improvements or potential for common
understanding what's expected as a consistency? What kind of information do
we want? What kind of information do we want to make sure that we receive
knowing there is no surprises? We could kind of go through those lists? But, if
we can't, just on page three, this is kind of what came back as a summary from
all the directors: forum for open two-way dialogue and communication. In that
subject area when we asked them for responses, they talked about regular
engagements, meetings with liaison. What they meant by that was they didn't
say that wanted to schedule, they just wanted to make sure that they were
communicating on the right basis with their particular liaison. They understood
that each one of you may have a little different of how you want, whether it's
email, telephone call, but they wanted to make sure that they establish what that
dialogue is that is acceptable. I use Charlie as an example. Charlie said to me
and I am looking at him as the liaison to Public Works, my sense is when I talk to
Brad, you guys have got a very solid, good understanding of how that - I think
there is a strong comfort zone there. I think that sometimes leadership is
sometimes a little bit - sometimes concerned, they don't want to offend or they
want to do it, but I think it includes a little proactive engagement. Are we
communicating the right way and what is actually happening? So, I think that I
would just say that as that liaison they were just saying that they want to make
sure that the communication that they are doing with you, is what you expect or
what you see and to make sure can it be improved? They would like to see that
happen.
Rountree: (I naudible--------------------------u-----------------) and say I will be there if I
can and every week I wasn't there because (inaudible-------------------) talking on
the phone (inaudible-------------), exchanging emails (inaud ible------------).
De Weerd: And that is what it's all about, finding that (inaudible------).
Ro u ntree: ( I na ud ib I e---------------------------------------------------- ).
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
December 13,2005
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De Weerd: Well and they too need to realize you don't have to come to them,
they can go to your place of work and so if that works better for you then they are
willing to do that too. It's just finding however it best works.
Bird: I think that (inaudible---------------) little memo (inaudible----------------------).
This is a small dollar amount so they put it on the consent because the Council
doesn't really care. When I seen that (inaudible------) one Councilman with his
department make sure that he knows where every (inaudible---------------------------
-______________________). They expect - they want us why they are getting this
(i na ud i ble------------------- ).
Nary: Well and I think sometimes, too, and maybe that was not a very good
choice of words, Keith, whoever wrote that, but I don't know sometimes and
that's because everyone of the directors has a different relationship with every
one of you and Joe being a new person it is going to be establish a relationship
with all the directors as well. They recognize you are busy. They know that you
all have jobs and are busy and have wives and this is not a full time job for you.
So, they know - they understand that. But, everything you do, everything you
think, everything you say makes a difference. It matters because whether it's
good or bad, it matters. So, the directors, you know I think everyone of the
directors - I am not speaking for them, but everyone of them that I have worked
with, what they are trying to do is make sure they are aligned with you. That they
are on the same page and they recognize maybe not on every single thing that
even the four of you will agree on and that is okay. They still generally want to
be aligned with what your needs are. Part of the purpose of those liaison
relationship is to foster that. And, again, it is finding that. I mean, you know,
finding what is important and what you really want to hear every detail about.
What (inaudible--------) you want to just have a heads up about. How you want
that communicated to you, that's what Charlie said, that is kind of a dance that
they all have, but I think when the question was asked in having this today, that is
something I think they all wanted you folks to know - it isn't because they - and
again, like I say, maybe it was a poor choice of words, I don't know if they think
you don't care, but they want to make sure that what you do care about, that you
really passionately are interested and concerned with because it may not be in
everything, but those that are, they know what it is and they want to make sure
they are meeting your expectations.
Bird: I tell you, Bill, on accountability in the Council point, one I first come on -
the first two years I was on, and we weren't accountable. I hate to say it, but the
last six years we have depended too much on other people to do our thinking for
us. We gave up a lot of stuff and I personally - go back to Ilke it was the first few
years, I didn't know where (inaudible------) goes. What it was spent for and why it
was spent. I am going to be accountable for the public (inaudible------). It's like
ordinances and stuff, we used to - the first two years I was on the board, we
never passed an ordinance without having a workshop on it. We have passed
some ordinances, right now, that I am ashamed to say I voted for that affects our
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
December 13, 2005
Page 23 of 30
whole community. Well, I know I have made mistakes, but I will guarantee you,
starting now - I am through - I will make mistakes, don't get me wrong, but they
will be an honest mistake for trying. For six years I had another job (inaudible--)
and thank God for that lady that covered me a lot, but we can all do all our jobs,
we all were elected to. If we couldn't do it, we shouldn't have been elected.
Nary: [don't know if I disagree, Keith. I recognize that accountability that all of
you have to what your job is. I don't disagree with what you are saying, but you
also and I guess I don't want you to take the point and I don't think it's what you
need, Keith, but I don't think you want to take it in point that what you believe
your role is because you don't trust that the people that you hired to do their jobs
aren't doing their jobs.
Bird: I didn't say that.
Nary: I know and that is what I am saying. I am not saying you did. What I am
saying is that is what we are talking about align is that you should have the trust
and the confidence - not that you can't look at every penny, but also the comfort
to know that the directors that are carrying out and the Mayor and the folks that
are carrying out those budgets and policies and all of those things are all on the
same page as you folks are. You could look at every penny. That is not a
problem, but then you should have a comfort level that we are all pushing
(inaudible) -
Bird: We are asking everybody to be accountable in the city, but ourselves. And
this is just my own thinking. These people might not think the same thing, but the
last few years we haven't been accountable to the degree that we should have.
Each one needs to sit down, look at the State's statute for Council and look at it
and sit down and read the City of Meridian ordinance. And do it. We have put
stuff off and we have stuck our directors' necks out on the chopping block by
doing that at times. (Inaudible------------). That is my (inaudible---------).
Stifler; Let me make my -
De Weerd: Do you promise that's it?
Stifler: I think there is a comment there related to - when Keith first brought that
up having to do with communication and understanding and it has to do with trust
and credibility and it has to do with accountability. I will share with you as I look
at - you can read this comments, I cannot read them all to you. I am going to
kind of bring out some points out of it is I think there is a distinct desire on the
part of all the leadership you have with the city, they want to have a common
ground of understanding, trust and credibility and it's kind of a two-way side.
When Keith says to it, with regard to the idea of making sure that Council and
everything is meeting their accountability too, it gets down to making sure that
the information and those things are there particularly with regard to decisions
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
December 13, 2005
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and things that are being made, that you - trust and credibility comes about that
you know you have got the information that's there. That even has to do with
focuses regarding some items and I know I talked to a few of the Council
members here that I would say that has to do with making sure that you are not
being bogged down in a bunch of other things and not having a chance to really
look at those issues that are very much at that Council level and I will say from
direction - I mean, some of the people voiced to me here - because they kind of
all tie together, you know, there is a lot of time and the city has been growing
very rapidly. A lot of time spent on land use issues. Somebody says (inaudible--
---~--) - some of those are just by nature of the growth and things, but on the
other hand I got input from you and even I got input from the leadership when we
started talking about can we make sure that the executive (inaudible) type of
recommendations and facts are presented to the Council. So, the Council sees
that bigger picture so you can allow management to do what they are responsible
and accountable for, but yet you could feel comfortable in the mind set of that
trust that is there. I think that is - go ahead Shaun.
Wardle: Well and one of the things that Bill and I talked about and I have
expressed my opinion in the past and that is that I view the role that we have as
first and foremost the Board of Directors for the city and we have all those
judiciary responsibilities. One of the comments that I just want to address and I
have heard it from staff members a million times and having been president,
having a lot of requests and that is additional meetings to discuss the city
business. Additional meetings to discuss what I feel is important to the city and
in trying to schedule a noon meeting or a 4:30 meeting or something where
directors want to have, want to present information. I understand their need to
present information to the City Council, but a lot of these issues I think our public
would be interested. A lot of them are policy decisions and I don't think that we
need to push on - we need to look at what we are doing with our meetings. We
need to have input, but I think a lot of times, staff members don't want to be
bogged down in the middle of a four hour land use planning meeting.
De Weerd: Yeah, because they don't want thirty people standing and looking at
their backs saying when is my time to testify? I don't care what you are saying.
Wardle: And while I understand that, I think that that is more important for us as
a city to elevate those issues. I think we need to elevate the issue and not try to
push it around something else. I think we have the ability to put it right out in
front and say you know what, that finance report is going to take an hour or a half
hour - the auditor report. Let's get it right out in front. It's important enough that
we can push off the next housing project that is going to take four hours for us to
look at and let's get front and center with these sorts of department reports.
De Weerd: Well, would a Council consider maybe the - I think when Charlie,
when we were Council members that there was one Tuesday that was a
workshop for non-land use issues and if we did like the third Tuesday of the
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
December 13, 2005
Page 25 of 30
month, no land use issues on that agenda that it's all ordinances, it's issues that
the departments would like to put in front of you. Because what they want to do
is they want to keep the big vision. They don't want to waste your time by giving
you mundane, annual monthly reports. They want to give you the crucial
presentations that are facing them and get some dialogue going, but they are
also sensitive to the public who are not there to hear that. They are there for a
land use item and they feel that they can't have the same kind of dialogue with
you because they are trying to value the time of the people behind them that are,
no doubt, not there for their item. If we make one meeting a non-land use - if the
public is there they are there to hear that and then that gives at least the staff
better confidence that I am not wasting these people's time. They want to hear it
too.
Wardle: My comment to that is that I am open to any suggestion, but my first
comment is the fact that what I just heard is even the staff doesn't feel that
whatever their issue elevates above whatever the land use plan is. I think that is
a cultural change that we have got to make.
Stifler: So, what you are saying is - they want know where that alignment is, so
that they are addressing those issues and being able to have that form and the
form to do that that is meaningful and is consistent with how you look at it from
an alignment and I will say this and I mentioned to Charlie and I talked about this,
they are not any more interested in taking your time and having a workshop just
to read the stuff that you get in information - you know just to go through that, it's
more related at more topics or issues that are part of you as a Board of Directors
helping to provide direction in that kind of a way and I will tell you what other
Council's that I worked with, they utilize the workshop in a public forum and the
right way is kind of - the mentioned could we (inaudible) - and it's like Charlie
when you and I talked, they said they don't want it to have the Police Department
is going to give a report of and you have already heard it. They want to talk
about topics or issues that are related to the alignment of the city and direction
going fOlWard where all the department heads are all part of that and use it in
that kind of a form and I will have to admit that even some of the training that we
have been involved in, we are trying to tell them, don't have a meeting just to
have a meeting. What is the agenda for the meeting? What is that topic? What
would we like to see out of that? Because part of this thing we are talking about
right now is enhancing that communication opportunity so they do know how
does that elevate, so that is as important with regard to the - you know, so there
is a common ground of understanding there.
Bird: Can I say one more thing? I see where Shaun is coming from. Tammy
you know it would be great if we have one with no land use, but I can tell you
right now that some developer is going to come in here (inaudible) that wants to
have something on it - it would be the same as I would or Shaun would or Joe or
Charlie. Maybe we need to sit down, the five of us need to sit down and figure
out if we could make it - start at 6:00 and have these reports from 6:00 to 7:30 or
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
December 13, 2005
Page 26 of 30
8:00 and then have our public hearings. I will tell you and I can't speak for
Charlie, but I am not going to no 1 :00 or 2:00 in the morning. I did that the first
two years and I am not doing it again.
Nary: And that is why Keith you know to be fair to directors, I mean, they know
your guys' time is pretty valuable and think of it this way, we can have a very nice
conversation around this table tonight. If there was 300 people waiting for the
next thing at 7:00 sitting in these chairs, we would really feel the necessity to kind
of hurry up. Wrap it up, yeah. We have got all these people waiting because it's
just human nature. I mean there is just no way around it. So, whether it's
starting the meeting early and setting the public hearing at a specific time, so
they show up and they really want to be there is one method. You know, we had
two meetings when I first got on the Council. One was no land use and one was
a workshop and it does push things out. I mean, look at how many projects you
have. You know the other side on your folks' perspective, would it be nice to
have one week that you didn't have to wrap your mind around CUts, AZ's, PP's
and talk about something else? I mean, if you came to our meetings for a year,
you'd think we didn't do a whole lot of anything else because that is what it
seems like. There is a whole lot more business of the city that you are aware of
that maybe don't have enough information on (inaudible) because we just can't
get to it in a forum that is very good for a dialogue or a conversation and we
never know what it is going to be. You know we all look at those agendas and
think okay this one might be easy and all of sudden you show up and there is 50
people and you wonder where they come from? You just never know, so maybe
pre-planning that, whether it's the earlier meeting or one meeting a month -
Bird: If we start early and just go an hour and one half in a month that is six
hours. That is longer than a workshop. So, I would well we just need to
(inaudible) those things.
Nary: Sure.
Bird: And work this out. I don't want to lose - we are now, in my mind the best
city to get a development or building through and I want to keep it that way. Our
employees have worked their hearts out to get us the best they are and I don't
want to lose that by not - if they need a land use every meeting, I for one am for
giving it, the land use in every meeting if I have to. But, I think we can work
around as Shaun said, this other way.
De Weerd: Well, you can get your feedback from Shaun.
Rountree: (Inaudible---------------------------------) final plats and all. Okay, one
meeting every quarter or one meeting every other month or whatever - you just
do that stuff and then we have a workshop (inaudible----------) on strategic and
(inaudible-----------------) that folks want to hear or they want (inaudible----------) or
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
December 13, 2005
Page 27 of 30
hear from the Councilor they want to (inaudible) with the Council some issues
facing the city (inaudible----------------).
Stifler: They want to have that two-way communication and I will even go a little
bit with what Shaun said, Charlie, is that I think some of the leadership would like
to elevate someone's other discussion so there is a better dialogue, like in that
forum or how it may be.
Wardle: I can tell you from (inaudible---------) that this is just (inaudible) an
elected official and I am virtually not a politician, but I can tell you that if someone
comes to one of our meetings, they are going to make a choice whether to elect
me or not based on my vote on one land issue regardless about how fiscally
responsible I am with the city. While that may be a political reality, I still don't
think that we have to elevate that one decision based on that my backyard
syndrome and elevate it above the rest of what we do for the city. We can't do
that. We have got to keep the bigger picture in mind. We do that with the camp
plan and all that, but we can't elevate one single land use project above
everything else.
Rountree: (Inaudible----------------------) and in fairness to the public (inaudible-----
------------).
Wardle: Well, I understand.
Bird: You know why? Because we run a good city and the city knows we run a
good city because we run (inaudible---------).
Rountree: But they are not interested in that kind of dialogue. (Inaudible-----------
-------------------) Council in a public open format and advertise such on occasion.
I am not saying we have to do it every month, or every week, but to me it's time
management (inaudible--------------) with that sense that (inaudible------------------) I
get the sense that this is okay, but I know that (inaudible----------) and I can look
at the audience and the Cub Scouts and the high school students and the
Simpson's in there for one public hearing (inaudible------------) about what is
happening (inaudible----------).
De Weerd: Yeah because it is not interesting, you see their eyes roll to the back
of their head and they are waiting to see the plat up on the screen -
Rountree: (Inaudible--------------------).
Nary: The thing with it, too, is I think all of you really know the directors want to
be able to have a conversation with you and many times there are things that
really need to be done in a public meeting, but you can't have a conversation
when there is a room full of people, boy scouts, girl scouts, everybody else
waiting there for other things. It is just not conducive to that. I mean, I agree with
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
December 13, 2005
Page 28 of 30
you Shaun, I mean, it would be much nicer to be able to say, you know folks we
have a lot of business--in the city besides your one project. This is what we are
doing. But, the reality sometimes is is that it just - it would be easier if we just
had it whether it's once a month, whether it's one meeting we could schedule out
ahead of time so that, you know, you guys can have a dialogue, whether it's
about we have had a lot of projects like this and you folks haven't liked that, we
need to have some idea for direction. It's hard to do with a room full of people.
Wardle: And here, although, we didn't get to our PADS, I guess my commitment
to the Council would be this: first off, realistically, if we start pushing out meetings
and not having land use, we are going to get stacked up and we are going to be
here until 1 :00 in the morning and that is unacceptable to me and my family on a
regular basis. I will commit to taking a look at how we can - whether it's starting
at 6:00 and only doing business from 6:00 to 7:00 and then having public
hearings - I think Nampa does it that way. Or utilizing consent agenda on a
more frequent basis. I mean, I will take a look and bring some of those ideas
back if you are willing to give me some input on what you think would be more
efficient. I agree we need some changes. I hear the staff saying we want to talk
to you and I also hear the other (inaudible) from the rest of the citizens.
Rountree: Well, (inaudible---------------------). They have some things that they
want to talk to us and once that gets cleared, they have -
Stifler: Can I give a quick example? One of the directors made the comment,
you know it's kind of like saying I would really like to share and have a better
dialogue before the Council (inaudible------) where we are going with this, but it
seems like and he wasn't being factious, it seems like we spend more time on
whether we are going to move a fence someplace and we never get a chance to
have that board strategic kind of things and honestly the part is is that when I
think talk to you and I talk to them, it's not that far apart. Everybody is saying
maybe at this stage, now is a good time to look at those processes. Even when
we talked about the executive summaries, kind of like looking at when you
present something, can you - you know, I think saw a little bit of it last Council
meeting related to one of the projects that came in, where Anna came in. You
had some suggestions, Charlie, you said well if she had included a map along
with the other side of it - what I think the whole part intent of this meeting the
cities at the stage where it is, you saw it kind of over here, but if you really are
going to effectively as a board, you have to have time where you have that input
under your accountability to give more of that strategic direction and find a
format, they don't want to sit there either and they are saying they are open to
whatever format can fit for you guys and they respect that. I guess that was -
one of the things I want to make sure that they said to me and I know that we are
running short on time is they said I wrote quote leadership appreciates the
support that the Council wants and they want to continue that by making sure
they get a chance to talk about those other issues. I mean, what I am saying is
they were all saying we appreciate what the Council is doing. At the same token
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
December 13,2005
Page 29 of 30
they want to make sure efficiency and productivity again, how do you look at
some of those processes often met with working with other Councils. Josh, we
have worked with - some of the paperwork that goes on needs to be said how
can it be streamlined? It's still accomplishing the accountability.
Wardle: One of the suggestions that I would make be included in each director
and some directors better than others, but they could all get a little better in that
as public presentation skills and that will help them not only present better to us
as a board, but it will help them present when they need to go talk to the Kiwanis
Club, to the Boys and Girls Club. It will help immensely.
Stifler: It's right in their leadership standpoint on -
(Inaudible discussion)
Nary: Before we break up, I did want to say one more thing, too and I want to
thank the Council for supporting what we have done and supporting the
relationship we have had with AspireOn. I don't think I presented to you very well
in the summer, why this continuing relationship was important to the city and why
it was worth the money to fund this continuing process because it has been a
good mix between what we have been trying to accomplish and the work that
AspireOn has helped us to do. So, I appreciate all of you supporting that,
funding that and allowing that to continue. As I did try to explain when we were
talking about this, just starting the new - if we were only talking about training.
That is a whole lot different than what we are talking about here. I think I
probably came across like we were really talking about training and you can go
get different training, but what we really want is that and what we really enjoyed
is building that relationship that progresses further down the road each step of
the way and I appreciate the Council for supporting that and seeing some of that
vision and as you have seen now there has been a whole lot of work that has
gone on that maybe you hadn't been aware of (inaudible---------).
De Weerd: Do I have a motion to adjourn?
Bird: So moved.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to adjourn Pre-Council meeting. All
in favor?
THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT. MOTION CARRIED.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
December 13, 2005
Page 30 of 30
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 6:40 P.M.
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