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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2003 07-01 Meridian City Council Meeting July 1, 2003 The Regular Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:00 P.M., on Tuesday, July 1, 2003, by Mayor Robert Corrie. Members Present: Mayor Robert Corrie, William Nary, Tammy de Weerd, and Keith Bird. Members Absent: Cherie McCandless. Others Present: William Nichols, Will Berg, Brad Watson, Anna Powell, and Dean Willis. Item 1. Roll Call Attendance: __X Tammy de Weerd _ X__ Bill Nary __O Cherie McCandless __X Keith Bird ___X__ Mayor Robert Corrie Corrie: All right. I will open the Meridian City Council Regular Meeting agenda, st Tuesday, July the 1, at 7:00 P.M. At this time, I'd like to have roll call attendance, please, by the City Clerk, please. Item 2. Adoption of the Agenda: Corrie: Okay. First, I'd like to welcome you all here this evening. We do have distinguished guests with us tonight. Boys and leaders from Troop 153 are here working on their badge for community -- citizenship in the community. We welcome you here tonight and hope that we can give you a few pointers on citizenship in the community. At this time we have the adoption of the agenda. Council, is there any additions or corrections to the agenda? Nary: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: I'm going to move that we move Items 11, 12, and 13 up to the beginning of the Regular Agenda, I guess it would be after Item 5, so that we can hear that prior to the other ones that are currently six, seven, eight, nine, and ten. Corrie: All right, any other changes? Nary: Mr. Mayor, hearing no other changes, I'd move to approve the agenda as amended. De Weerd: Second. Meridian City Council Meeting July 1, 2003 Page 2 of 41 Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded to approve the agenda as changed, any further discussion? All those in favor of the motion say aye. All ayes. Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT Item 3. Consent Agenda: A. June 10, 2003 Approve minutes of Pre-Council Meeting: B. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP 03-015 Request for a Conditional Use Permit to add a heliport with office and fueling – future landing pad and hanger on southeast St. Luke’s Meridian Medical corner of property in an L-O zone for Center by St. Luke’s Regional Medical Center – east of South Eagle Road and north of I-84: C. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP 03-011 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for two 9,500 square foot retail buildings with associated site improvements in an L-O Resolution Subdivision zone for by G.L. Voigt Development – 1611 South Millennium Way and 2045 West Overland Road: D. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: RZ 03- 006 Request for a Rezone of 3.41 acres from R-4 to R-8 zones Bear Creek No. 6 for by Westpark Company – west of South Meridian Road and south of West Overland Road: E. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: PP 03- 005 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 31 building lots and 2 Bear Creek other lots on 10.49 acres in a proposed R-8 zone for No. 6 by Bear Creek, LLC – west of South Meridian Road and south of West Overland Road: F. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: VAR 03-015 Request for a Variance for block length in an R-4 and R-8 Bear Creek No. 6 zone for by Bear Creek, LLC – west of South Meridian Road and south of West Overland Road: G. Addendum to Department of Corrections Probation & Parole Lease for space in Meridian Police Department at 1401 E. Watertower Street: H. Rejection of All Bids for Bear Creek Restroom Project: Meridian City Council Meeting July 1, 2003 Page 3 of 41 I. Approve Bills: Corrie: Item Number 3 is the Consent Agenda. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: There are a few corrections on Item Number B, but I believe that those could be covered within the motion to approve the Consent Agenda with the changes to a typo. Is that correct, Mr. Attorney? Nichols: Mayor and Council, yes. De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Corrie: Okay. De Weerd: Then, I'd make a motion to approve the Consent Agenda with the corrections to Item 3-B and ask the Mayor to sign and the Clerk attest to all necessary documents. Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded. Is there any other discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote, Mr. Berg. Roll call: McCandless, absent; Nary, aye; de Weerd, aye; Bird, aye. Corrie: Okay. All ayes. Motion is carried. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT Item 4. Department Reports: Corrie: Item Number 4 is Department Reports. Are there any Department Reports? Item 5. (Items Moved from Consent Agenda): Item 11. AP 03-002 Appeal of Planning and Zoning Commission’s Denial of Blooming Meadows Estates Subdivision Preliminary Plat for by The Cutting Edge, LLC – 4379 North Locust Grove Road: Item 12. Public Hearing: AZ 03-011 Request for annexation and zoning of 11.5 Blooming +/- acres from RUT to R-8 and R-15 zones for proposed Meadows Estates Subdivision by The Cutting Edge, LC – 4379 North Locust Grove Road: Meridian City Council Meeting July 1, 2003 Page 4 of 41 Item 13. Public Hearing: CUP 03-022 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a Planned Development for townhouses and single-family homes in Blooming Meadows Estates proposed R-8 and R-15 zones for proposed Subdivision by The Cutting Edge, LC – 4379 North Locust Grove Road: Corrie: Okay. Then Item Number 6 is -- to hearing Items 11, 12, and 13. We will start with 11, then, and this is an appeal of the Planning and Zoning Commission's denial of the Preliminary Plat for Bloomington Meadows Estates Subdivision by Cutting Edge, LLC, 4379 North Locust Grove Road. At this time Council will hear the appeal and if there are any comments from staff first. Powell: I'm not as well organized today. Forgive me. The Council may want to consider all three items at the same time. What we have recommended to the applicant is that because the Preliminary Plat was denied, it did end at the Planning and Zoning Commission and that's why they have appealed it to you. I know this is something new, so I'll just briefly go over it. It was denied by P&Z, so it's being appealed up to you, but the other items associated with it, which were the Planned Development and the preliminary -- and the Conditional Use for the Planned Development and the -- Nary: Annexation. Powell: -- annexation, thank you, did not stop at Planning and Zoning Commission, so they came up to you in their normal course of events for you to make a decision on those. We have told the applicant that they can't really ask for a new Preliminary Plat with their appeal, but that they ask you to consider a revised layout associated with the Conditional Use Permit for the Planned Development. That should you feel that that's more appropriate than the original Preliminary Plat, that you remand all three items back to the Planning and Zoning Commission for their consideration. That would -- staff would ask that you open up all three and, then, I can talk about all three or would you prefer that I just talk about the appeal? Corrie: Well, Council, if we open it up to 11, 12, and 13, we are opening up the Public Hearings and I don't know whether we want to get into the Public Hearing on the appeal and if I do that to all three, then, we open it up. I would rather that we stay with the appeal first and if we remand -- recommend that it goes back to Planning and Zoning the Public Hearings are moot at this point. Powell: Your decision on what you may want to do with the appeal will probably be dependent on what you want to do with the Planned Development and the annexation, so maybe we could open that one up last. Sorry. We should have coordinated on this. I'm sorry. Corrie: Mr. Attorney, what would you suggest that we do? Nichols: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, the -- oftentimes with these kinds of things if there is an appealable issue when there is a judicial review, the hang up is on a Meridian City Council Meeting July 1, 2003 Page 5 of 41 procedural level. To error on the side of additional testimony or input before making a decision is the safest route to avoid some sort of automatic remand from a District Court judge. If you choose to open all three at once, you can do that. What you may -- but you also are entitled to structure the Public Hearings in a way that's fair, but yet efficient. You would -- I think would have the ability to say that what you're going to do is open all three, allow staff to make comments on all three, since staff believes that the Planned Development revisions that are proposed by the developer may have a bearing on those various issues. Then, have the developer come forward and present their case. Then, you can decide at that point whether you have heard enough to decide the appeal for which no Public Hearing is necessary, which would necessitate a remand of all three back to the Planning and Zoning Commission or whether to continue with the Public Hearings on those other issues. Corrie: Okay. Well, in the case of there being error on the side of that, I would say, then, that I would be willing to, excuse me, open the Public Hearing on Item Numbers 12 and 13 and limit the discussion of the staff to what we need to hear. Then, we will hear the appeal and, then, if that being done and they wanted to remand it back to the Planning and Zoning and we will make the other -- so, I will open the Public Hearing, then, on item 12, AZ 03-011. Request for annexation and zoning of 11.5 acres from RUT to R-8 and R-15 zones for proposed Blooming Meadows Estates Subdivision. Also the Public Hearing on CUP 03-022, request for a Conditional Use Permit for a Planned Development, townhouses, single-family homes in a proposed R-8 and R-15 zone for Blooming Meadows Estates. Again, limiting your discussion to all of it if you want, but we will hear the appeal first. Nary: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: I guess the only other comment I would have, I guess, I would have to see how the testimony evolves. Since the appeal that we are hearing is, essentially, a de novo hearing, we are, basically, allowing them a new hearing and presenting new evidence that was not presented at the Planning and Zoning Commission. It probably would not be very fair to the people that are here to not allow them to comment on that information before we make a decision on whether or not to remand it. I don't think we made that clear to everybody. I think if we are going to hear new information from the applicant, we are going to hear new testimony from the people as well. Corrie: Okay. Well, my question is how do you know it's going to be new or not. Nary: Well, I think Mrs. Powell said that's what it was and that's why she said their Preliminary Plat was different and that was -- Powell: And we have suggested that they propose it as a different Conditional Use Permit for a conceptual Planned Development and, then, come back. Meridian City Council Meeting July 1, 2003 Page 6 of 41 Corrie: Okay. Powell: That's a fine line. Sorry. Corrie: A very fine line here. Powell: Yes, sir. I'm sorry. Corrie: All right. Anna. Powell: Thank you, Mayor, Members of the Council. This is a request for a Conditional Use Permit for a Planned Development, an annexation request, and a Preliminary Plat request and an appeal of a Preliminary Plat request. The property is the long narrow property highlighted on the screen. It is located off of Locust Grove Road and south of McMillan as shown. Heritage Commons you can see to the south of the property. The Comp Plan does have -- this is -- the corner of the property is shown within one of the neighborhood centers on the Comprehensive Plan. The plat as proposed by the applicant, it's shown in two parts here. They connect -- at this location connects with this here. There was no access proposed from Locust Grove. These are townhouses in this location. A pocket park here next to Locust Grove. More townhouses. These were standard single-family residential lots. You can see the Landscape Plan there. Okay. These are -- this is -- this is new information that the applicant has provided since the Planning and Zoning Commission hearing. There was a question of what type of product would be provided in the subdivision. These are the proposed single-family homes and these are proposed -- the proposed townhouses. This is a development in Surprise Valley on the east end of Boise. They had proposed it similar to this project here. Staff doesn't have the revised drawing for the Planned Development that the applicant is presenting tonight. Let me give you a rundown of what happened at P&Z and I think you will understand a little better the complications we are facing regarding this project, this was originally submitted by an engineer that is no longer working on the project. A new engineer stepped in and there have been some orphan problems with the plat. It just -- the consistency of communication between neighbors and it has not been good, so there was a little miscommunication. The biggest one being that -- it was staff's understanding and ACHD's understanding from the first engineer that there was no opportunity to connect to Locust Grove right here across from Star Lane where -- because they couldn't -- the offset was too great on this property. It was stated that they were unable to reach a compromise with the owner of this property to share access there and have an access. All the access for this subdivision came through Havasu Creek. There was no direct access from the subdivision onto the arterial Locust Grove. It came down -- access came through here and stubbed at this location and, then, it came back here into the project. Then, the owner to the south got up, testified, and said I'm willing to share an access, no one ever got back with me. It was at that point we were all kind of not sure what to do with it, because that had been a fundamental decision in the design of the project. Additional testimony at the Public Hearing came from the neighbors and the basic tenants of those complaints -- or those testimonies were, one, that -- the no access to Locust Grove. They thought it unusual and a bit odd Meridian City Council Meeting July 1, 2003 Page 7 of 41 that the access was from Havasu Creek and how would they get signed for sale in that area. The largest objection was to the townhouses that were proposed. This is consistent with the Comprehensive Plan, so staff's recommendation was for approval, again, not knowing that a connection to Locust Grove was possible at this location, though. The applicant had not had a neighborhood meeting. He has had one, I believe it was last night, and he can update you on the results of that neighborhood meeting. The photos that you saw were in response to some of the concerns expressed at the Planning and Zoning Commission hearing. We have met with the applicant and the property owner to the south and they are all interested in working together to get the access -- the access would come here for a distance and, then, meander up to join with this proposed road here, so it would come through like that. It would leave this property some frontage on this new road, so that it didn't have to take direct access of off Locust Grove. That's the end of staff's comments. The applicant does have a concept plan for the property that shows that access to Locust Grove and he can update you on the results of the neighborhood meeting. Corrie: Okay. Thank you, Anna any questions from staff? Bird: I have none. Corrie: Is the applicant here for the appeal? Powell: Excuse me, Mayor, Members of the Council, because they were last on the agenda, the engineer is not here right now. We have someone who can speak to the neighborhood meeting and we can perhaps get him up to the microphone and hope that somebody calls the engineer. Corrie: Okay. McGraw: Rick McGraw, 3090 Gentry Way, Meridian. Our engineer -- Corrie: Do we need to swear him in for our Public Hearing -- Nichols: Well, Mr. Mayor, since you have opened them all, it is recommended you do. Corrie: Okay. Is the testimony you are about to give the Council the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? McGraw: It is. Thank you. Rick McGraw, 3090 Gentry Way, Meridian, Idaho. Our engineer is not here yet. We thought we were dead last on the agenda and we left a message for him, but he's not -- he's not answering his phone. I will speak to a couple items. We did have a neighborhood meeting last night that was well attended and we answered as many questions as we could regard the transition of the land. What we had planned and what we saw the product and -- or the project was going to end up like. We have answered all of staff's questions and concerns and we have got -- the engineer has all of those seven items resolved and I don't -- I guess he's not turned it Meridian City Council Meeting July 1, 2003 Page 8 of 41 into staff, but, again, I apologize, we are just -- we just thought we were way in on the meeting and he's not here. I can stand for any questions. We have met with Anna and staff and we follow along with what she has said, we agree with what she said up to this point. Corrie: Do you have anything from the neighborhood meeting? Do you know? McGraw: No. We tried to answer all the questions that the neighbors had and there were a lot of questions I thought were good questions, we answered them as directly as we could, there were concerns brought up. We just let them know what we plan and we just -- again, it was a good meeting, we had 20, 25 people there. We went over questions of density and values of homes, what the style of homes were going to be like and the builder teams that wanted to come in and that sort of thing, but that's about it. We talked about landscaping and irrigation and concerns about water, you know, their wells going lower and things like that, but that was about the gist of it. Nary: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: In looking at the minutes of the Planning and Zoning Commission, it appears that there was some discussion there about the density of this particular project. At your neighborhood meeting was there any discussion or compromise about the density or were you just telling those folks what you were doing and them telling you what they didn't like? McGraw: A little bit of both. When we went to -- when we went to staff, we brought them the piece of land that we had and we asked them what they would like to see there, which I think most developers, you know, meet with staff ahead of time. We went with their recommendations, went back and put a plan together and came up with this design, with the idea of some townhomes up front and the single family behind. A lot of the neighbors that were there last night were concerned about the townhomes and the size of the lots, valuation of the houses that would be going in there, as far as compromising the assessed value of their homes. Nary: Okay. I don't want to keep pulling teeth. There are a lot of people in this room. I'm assuming they are not here to say what a great plan this is, but maybe I'm wrong, but the nature of discussion is kind of what -- this is your opportunity to tell us what it is. McGraw: You bet. I understand that. We fielded every question they had last night and we thought the meeting went well. They did ask us to make compromises and did say that if -- if there were no townhomes there -- a few people -- and I'm not going to paraphrase everyone, because there was a lot of different directions. Some people had concerns that there was not a road coming in off of Locust Grove, and some were pleased there that was not going to be a road coming in off of Locust Grove. The major concern was about density. I think if there was an overall theme to the meeting last Meridian City Council Meeting July 1, 2003 Page 9 of 41 night was we are concerned about that kind of density out there, them having acre lots right across the street. Nary: Now -- so, if I'm understanding what you're not telling me is that there was not a real lot of compromise on the density issue. McGraw: No. We brought in what we thought was a good plan, consistent with what we felt the city was looking for in that area, and, you know, we felt we put a good plan together. We wanted to see to if we could pursue getting that planned approved. Nary: Now, when I read the minutes of the P&Z Commission, I guess I got the impression that the intent of the Commission in having this go to a neighborhood meeting was to sort of effectuate some discussion and potential compromise. Did that not -- that didn't happen? McGraw: There was a lot of discussion and I'm not sure -- I'm not sure if that's -- if I agree with that. I think -- and I have been to a lot of neighbor meetings on both sides of it and I felt it was important for us to let the neighbors know what we had planned there and we felt it was consistent with what the city was looking for and we did try to answer some of the questions, but as far as did we compromise the project the way we had originally presented it at the P&Z, no. Nary: Okay. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I guess with some of our newer ordinances we do recommend neighborhood meetings at the beginning of the process and that is to find the common ground and compromise and just to confirm what you just told Mr. Nary is you don't think that that is what a neighborhood meeting is about -- just presenting and letting them know what you're doing, but not really gathering feedback to make your application a stronger one. McGraw: No, that's not what I meant. My feeling about the neighborhood meeting was that we honestly felt we could go out there, show them what we were going to do, talk about the value of the homes, that even though it was a higher density, we honestly felt that we were bringing a good project into that neighborhood. If you were -- you know if you decide that we need to go back to the drawing board, we need that recommendation. You know, I have developed a lot of projects, you know, with different developers in this valley and I know a lot of times it's hard -- you know, it's hard to come in and have smaller lots come in beside you when you have been there on acre lots or five acre lots or 10 acre lots. I understand that, but when I look at the overall -- and, you know, obviously, I'm not an expert in the north end out there, but I see a lot of different projects going in there with different types of density. I honestly thought that's what the Meridian City Council Meeting July 1, 2003 Page 10 of 41 City of Meridian was looking for out there. Now, having said that, if the testimony of the people here is such that you feel we need to go to the table and do something different, we just need that direction. Corrie: Well, it sounds to me that, as a good contractor, you would want to try to get your point across, but it sounds like it didn't go across, that they didn't buy it, is that -- McGraw: No. I think it's fair to say that, you know, we -- the way we explained the project last night in the meeting, it was understood by everyone -- did everybody agree with what we were going? No. You know, we tried to show -- and, again, I think the townhomes -- and, again, if there is testimony beyond my testimony tonight, I think that the neighbors out there would be consistent in saying that if there were not townhomes in this project they would be more favorable towards it. Again, I don't want to speak for them, but that's the feeling I got. Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I think there is more, from the looks of the people that turned out here -- and, you know, we certainly don't know -- and I'll paraphrase here for this, but your -- in the first place, your neighborhood meeting probably was about two and a half months too late. It's recommended and, then, you don't have this kind of stuff, if you're willing work with it on this -- on the deal. Does your engineer have a cell phone or anything that you can get a hold of him? McGraw: We have left messages on both of his phones. Again, I apologize, we honestly -- last -- when we went to P&Z we were last on the list and we didn't even get up until 11:00. We honestly thought we were going to be a little bit further into the meeting. Corrie: If you're here enough years, you realize that it happens. McGraw: And I understand that. Corrie: I'm sorry that -- McGraw: I'm not trying to make excuses. I'm just trying to say that -- Corrie: But -- Nary: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Nary. Meridian City Council Meeting July 1, 2003 Page 11 of 41 Nary: Could you at least give us an indication what you think your engineer is going to share with us that is going to make a difference in regards to the appeal? McGraw: All I know is he was going to explain the plat and all of the -- all of the recommendations that staff had made, the seven recommendations, he had accomplished that. I have actually got a color rendering of that with me with the changes made. It looks fairly close to what Anna's got, but it's -- you know, we don't have it in a format that we can -- I guess we can put it on the easel or something and show you. Corrie: Put it so we can see it and also the audience can see a little bit of it as well. While we make the decision, they have something about it as well. McGraw: The seven recommendations that staff made were addressed here, from the landscaping, to the amenities in the common areas, to the sidewalks around the townhomes, to the fence issues. Anna, I can't remember what else there was on that list. All of the items that they recommended we change we did change -- or not change, but add to, so -- the concept itself stayed the same. The overall concept -- oh, and one of the things they wanted -- let me -- they wanted a little more access from here into the common areas, so we moved this over to allow for more shot into here. The landscaping along Settler's here, we couldn't go with the taller landscaping, so -- they wanted it to be just two foot -- you know, it couldn't be any more than two feet in height. Then, the volleyball court, a tot lot, and the park benches in the common areas were addressed as well. Powell: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, this is not what I anticipated the developer or the applicant was bringing forward to you today, so if you are confused, there is a reason for it. I thought that they were going to present a new revised layout. What they are showing you here is a modified version of their original application that addresses the issues that the staff had in their original staff report to the Planning and Zoning Commission. I thought that they were going to be submitting kind of a new concept that showed a connection to Locust Grove. That's why the -- my testimony before probably isn't -- wasn't making sense relating to this. This is a modification of what was denied by P&Z. This would be more of the straight issue of appealing what was denied by P&Z up to you, rather than a modification. Nary: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: So, if I understand, then, this now, what your engineer is going to come and show us is what you -- all you have changed on this plat to this point is the recommendations that staff has made to the Planning and Zoning Commission. Nothing that was presented at the Planning and Zoning Commission, as the neighbors concerns, are on this plat. There is no change in regards to their testimony? Meridian City Council Meeting July 1, 2003 Page 12 of 41 McGraw: We created a new conceptual plat that showed a road coming in off of Locust Grove as well. To be honest with you, the engineer will speak to this better than myself. We honestly thought we were going to come here and be remanded back to P&Z with those items and it's very likely that the engineer has got that with him and, again, I apologize, we are not as prepared as we should be. Nary: Well, is your engineer going to address what grounds you believe we should remand it, just because you have amended it to include what the Planning and Zoning staff has already recommended? That doesn't appear to me to be a reason to grant the appeal and remand it. McGraw: To be real honest with you, this is -- this is over my head and I wish I could answer all your questions, but I think I would be remiss if I tried to, you know. Nary: So, you think your engineer is going to be able to answer -- McGraw: Oh, certainly. Nary: But the grounds for this appeal are why we should remand it. McGraw: I'm sure of that, but, again, he's not here, so we can't -- Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I don't think -- I don't think they are prepared to present this as conceptual, that isn't what we -- that's not what the staff thought they were getting. You know, I just -- I think they are very ill-prepared to -- and I hate to say that, but -- and I think we either just remand everything back or we continue this for a couple three weeks and give -- let them get time to get what the staff has asked for -- I mean I can't judge on an appeal while I'm seeing a conceptual plan over there that is different of what they brought in originally and what the staff told them to do, so they went and moved a few lines on the paper. McGraw: Could I speak to that? Corrie: Go ahead. McGraw: If we do get continued -- and I understand clearly -- if we get could continued, I think we would appreciate that, if we could get our ducks in a row and get back in front of you. Bird: You've got a lot of ducks to get in a row. McGraw: I understand. Meridian City Council Meeting July 1, 2003 Page 13 of 41 Nichols: Mr. Mayor? Sherer: (Inaudible). Corrie: Mr. Nichols. Nichols: Mr. Mayor, if I could remind the audience, this is not a town hall meeting where people can stand up, you have to be addressed by the Mayor before you can speak. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: It appears there are number of issues and not only that is how you began the planning process. It should have begun with the residents that surround this piece of property who you impact. I don't even feel comfortable remanding it back to P&Z. I think this is probably one of the things that you need to start over and go through the process and try and do it right. You're attempt at meeting with the neighbors last night was a great beginning, but that's where it should have been is at the beginning and maybe if you bring it back, we can see all of the changes and all of that now. I just don't -- what we are hearing is there is a lot of changes to be made and to remand it back we are going to see a totally different thing and that's a total different application, if you ask me, and so that's just where I'm standing at this point. I don't know what the other Council members think, but in my personal opinion it looks like this needs to start the process again. Nary: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: I guess I will be stronger than that. I think you have wasted our time. I think you have wasted all these people's time. I mean this is ridiculous. There is no reason you should be here tonight with an appeal that you have no idea what you're here for. There is no reason you should have had a neighborhood meeting with these people with no consideration of what they want or what they think. What a complete waste of everybody's time you have caused. We shouldn't be remanding this. You should start over, because that's the right thing to do. You need to listen to these people. That's why we have a neighborhood meeting process, so you'll listen to people, not for you to just tell them what you want to do, but you listen to them and what they'd like to have. Compromise and communication is what we are talking about. This is ridiculous. I don't want to remand this, I want you to withdraw it, because you need to start over and you need to do this right. If you want this to be approved at some point in the future, then, listen to the neighbors before you waste our time or the Planning and Zoning Commission's time but this is ridiculous. If you have built other projects as you stated, if Meridian City Council Meeting July 1, 2003 Page 14 of 41 you have worked with other developers as you have stated, then, you should know better. McGraw: May I speak to that? Nary: If you think it will be better than what you have said so far, then, please, do, but if it's not any better that what you have said so far, I don't know that you want to bother. McGraw: Okay. I appreciate your comments and I will take the time and I will bother. You know, it's not my position to be speaking to you about this. Our engineer, that was his job, and we honestly thought he would be here and, to be real honest, we thought we were going to be way into this meeting. I'm not making any excuses, I'm sure he could have conveyed a lot more to you than I could. I just stepped, because I was the only one left that could, okay? This is not what I do this is not my end of it. I do know about the business and I do know a lot about neighborhood meetings and developments, but I'm not an engineer and I can't speak to the concerns that staff had or yourself. I'm not trying to make excuses I'm apologizing. Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: What part of this project are you, then? Are you an owner or -- McGraw: I own a real estate group here in Meridian and we are -- Bird: You're the -- McGraw: Real estate broker. Bird: -- real estate broker and I appreciate you coming up and trying to help us out, but I'm like Councilman Nary, I think you have wasted our time, you have wasted your time, and you have wasted a whole lot of people's time here. This project, as far as I'm concerned, is -- I'm like Councilwoman de Weerd, it needs to go back and start completely over and just come in and start -- of all people, a real estate agent broker should know that you start with the people around you that you're going to build by, have your neighborhood meeting, listen to them -- and I don't say you have to change everything, I mean I understand that. I don't think there is person sitting up here that says you have to change everything, but you do have to listen or it's tough and you have just wasted our time, you have wasted your time, and I understand your engineer being late, that does happen, so -- you have wasted -- a bunch of people have come out, I'm glad they come out, I'm glad we had something like this, it's better than nobody in to talk to, so -- but my recommendation is you pull this baby and go back and start it over and come back through it the right way. Meridian City Council Meeting July 1, 2003 Page 15 of 41 Nichols: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, in fairness to the applicant, I think it's a bit difficult to put them on the spot to decide right now whether to withdraw the appeal on the -- withdraw the applications and start over. I would recommend that you continue this item for two weeks and that gives them the opportunity to decide what they are going to do or your other option is to go forward with the Public Hearing to make a decision whether to deny or whether to remand or what you want to do. Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I would move for a continuance of Items 11, 12, and 13 to July 15, 2003 the applicant to come back and tell us whether they want to go forward as it is or reapply. Corrie: I guess my question is what about Item 11? Do we deny the appeal and, then, continue 12 and 13? Nichols: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, I believe you would want to continue all three of them together. Corrie: The appeal as well. Okay. All right. Waiting for a motion, then. De Weerd: There is no second. Corrie: I know there is no second, but -- okay. No second. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I guess, Mr. Attorney, I'm not sure why we are continuing this. If we are going to deny the appeal, why are we going to prolong the agony? Nichols: Well, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, if you're going to deny the appeal, you better take some more evidence on why the appeal should -- why the appeal should be denied and -- denied and the decision of the Planning Commission should be upheld, so that there is an adequate record to base your decision. Nary: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: Well, the burden is on them. I don't care that you thought it was at the end of the meeting, your responsibility was to present evidence on appeal. All we have is your testimony, which isn't adequate, and the statement -- the letter from your engineer, which doesn't have any ground for appeal. I'm very comfortable in denying the appeal Meridian City Council Meeting July 1, 2003 Page 16 of 41 based on what you have presented, which is nothing. I don't have a problem with going forward with it now. If we want to move it to -- after a couple of items to see if the engineer shows up, I don't have a problem with waiting a couple of items, but I don't think all these people need to come back in two weeks to decide what -- to figure out what you guys want to do. You didn't do this right from the start. I don't think we need to inconvenience 25 or 30 more people again, because you couldn't do this properly, nor did you want to listen to them twice. You haven't presented any evidence to grant your appeal. I don't think there is a problem in denying it. If we deny the appeal, you can present evidence on the other stuff. McGraw: Can I speak? Could we request a continuance? Do we have the right to ask for that? I mean, you know, we are ill prepared and, again, all I can do is apologize. If we could get a continuance, we would appreciate it, so our engineer can be here in a timely fashion and we can present the information we need to. Nary: Well, you saw him ask for it once and no one seconded it, so I'm not going to ask for a continuance. This is your responsibility to be here and go forward. McGraw: I agree. Nary: No one else -- especially on an appeal. McGraw: I understand. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I guess I would -- I just don't know what the engineer could tell us that -- at this point that would make it any different. If we change it to a couple items down, I don't have a problem with that, if Councilman Nary -- if Councilman Nary suggested that. I don't have a problem waiting for your engineer, as long as it's -- I'm not going to wait long. McGraw: I'll try to call him again. De Weerd: But if we can get through a couple of these other items -- and, I apologize, we put it further up on our agenda, so you wouldn't have to sit through our other business, but we can do that and we will -- the rest of the Council may not -- Powell: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Anna. Powell: I did want to remind you that there are 18 people on the public sign-up sheet, so there are other people to testify in the Public Hearing. Meridian City Council Meeting July 1, 2003 Page 17 of 41 Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I'm not for changing it. The Council here, let's just make up our mind to get something done. This is -- if you want to go through and listen to everything -- if we are going to deny the appeal or uphold the appeal, let's get that over. These people don't want to sit here all night and listen to testimony, the same as we don't if we are going to -- the first item, as I see it, is the appeal and what we do there is going to determine what we do with the other two and so let's -- McGraw: Can I speak again? Corrie: Go ahead. The Public Hearing on Item Number 12, then, just want to -- Bird: I just -- let's get the Number 11 taken care of and, then, we can -- Corrie: Okay. It's up to you. I can't vote. Bird: I can't -- I'm not going to make a motion, so -- McGraw: Step down or -- do you want me to step down? Corrie: No. That -- yes. If you don't have anything to else to say. Nary: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: Although I would agree with Mr. Bird that maybe we just need to get on with it, but, you know, if -- I'm looking at our agenda and Item 6 is a request for a Final Plat approval and Item 7 is a request for transfer of Conditional Use. Mrs. Powell, is Item 7 fairly short? Powell: I'm sorry? Nary: The request for the transfer of the Conditional Use Permit. Powell: Yes, sir, very short. Nary: I guess what I was going to move, Mr. Mayor, if we move item -- that we table Items 11, 12 and 13 temporarily, and hear Items 6 and 7, and, then, we will come back to Items 11, 12, and 13. That will give them some opportunity to get a hold of their engineer for anything else that they want to add to provide grounds for the appeal and if Meridian City Council Meeting July 1, 2003 Page 18 of 41 they don't, then, we can -- then, that gives them an opportunity to at least get something on the record, if they think they have something that provides the grounds. De Weerd: Second. Corrie: Okay. Is that a motion? We have a second, any further discussion? Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: He's going to bring you a map, the same as you just looked at up there, a conceptual map that they moved some lines to show where they have more access and stuff. I mean I would concur -- Nary: They can't say we didn't hear it. De Weerd: It's respect for the process. Bird: I think we have given them enough respect. Corrie: Any other comments? Okay. Motion before the floor. All in favor of the motion say aye. Opposed. Okay. Two to one. We will continue Items 11, 12, and 13 and we are going to go to Item Number 6 and probably 7 and we will come back and if your engineer is here we will see what happens. MOTION CARRIED: TWO AYES, ONE NAY, ONE ABSENT Item 6. FP 03-037 Request for Final Plat approval of 30 building lots and 4 other Baldwin Park No. 5 lots on 7.36 acres in an R-8 zone for by Capitol Development – Northeast corner of North Linder Road and West Ustick Road: Corrie: Item Number 6 is a request for Final Plat approval of 30 building lots and four other lots on 7.36 acres in an R-8 zone for Baldwin Park No. 5 by Capital Development, northeast corner of North Linder Road and Ustick Road. Staff comments first. Powell: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, this is the fifth in a series of Final Plats on the Baldwin Preliminary Plat and it is located on the interior of the subdivision. It doesn't extend to the boundaries at any point. It's this area and it wraps around that way. The only -- forgive staff for getting this to you late. There was an issue regarding lot counts in the plats thus far. Over the course of the five Final Plats, there have been five additional lots. Since we did the lot total there was five additional lots. We were concerned with this, so we were talking with the applicant about their options. On Monday they did decide to go ahead and resubmit -- or to submit a new Preliminary Plat on this property and they'd likely bring in additional property and so they will bring that to Meridian City Council Meeting July 1, 2003 Page 19 of 41 you for your review and that will accommodate the additional five lots that are in these plats thus far. We have made it a condition of approval that they submit a complete application -- preliminary application prior to Brad Watson signing the Final Plat. That was the only outstanding issue. That's all, sir. I'm sorry. Corrie: Okay. All right. Thank you. Is the request for the Final Plat here? Mr. -- Yorgason: My name is Dave Yorgason with Capital Development. The address is 6200 North Meeker place in Boise. Do I need to raise my hand? Corrie: No. This is not a Public Hearing. Yorgason: Thank you. We did meet with staff on Monday and recognizing some of the drawing and layouts we have come up with on the common areas and just more efficient with some of our road and street layouts. Nothing significant changed there also. The approval for the subdivision, as I understand it, is 272 lots. We have certainly not come close to that number at this point in time and we will comply with all the conditions the staff has written at this time as the staff report is before you. We really don't have any other comments to address. We appreciate any suggestions that staff has offered to us, but, no, we stand before you at this time for any questions and just request approval as the staff report is written. Corrie: Okay. Thank you, Dave. Any comments? Questions? Okay. Okay. Thank you. Yorgason: Thank you. Corrie: Okay. Since there is no questions, comments, I will entertain a motion for the Final Plat request. Nary: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: I would move the approval of FP 03-037, request Final Plat approval of 30 building lots and four other lots on 7.36 acres in an R-8 zone for Baldwin Park No. 5 by Capital Development. At the northeast corner of North Linder Road and West Ustick Road, to include all staff comments and comments the applicant presented this evening, for counsel to prepare Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision and Order. Bird: Second. Corrie: All right. Motion has been made and seconded to approve the Final Plat on Baldwin Park No. 5 and conditions, any further discussion? Roll call vote, Mr. Berg. Meridian City Council Meeting July 1, 2003 Page 20 of 41 Roll call: McCandless, absent; Nary, aye; de Weerd, aye; Bird, aye. Corrie: Three ayes. Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT Item 7. Public Hearing: TCU 03-001 Request for a Transfer of Conditional Use All About Kids Permit for a Child Care Center in an R-8 zone for by Zejna Garibovic and Kathy Sokoli – 1155 East Chateau Drive: Corrie: Item Number 7 is a Public Hearing. This is a request for a transfer of Conditional Use Permit for a childcare center in an R-8 zone for All About Kids, 1155 East Chateau Drive. I'm not going to attempt the names, so at this time I'll open the Public Hearing and invite staff's comments first on the request. Powell: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, usually a Conditional Use Permit runs with the land, not with the owner. There is an exception made in our Zoning Ordinance for a home occupation and day cares and so that is why they have come before you tonight to transfer it. The only condition that staff has is that they provide evidence of having a day care license -- provider license. Corrie: Okay. Thank you. Questions? Nary: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: Maybe I missed that, but when they transfer to another location, then, don't you have to provide notice to the neighbors, the same as they would if they were applying for it there? It seems like you could apply for it one place and, then, transfer it somewhere else and provide no notice to your neighbors and all of a sudden open of a day care. Powell: No, sir. The location has not transferred. The ownership of the day care has transferred. Nary: Okay. I got you. I'm sorry. I understand now. My mistake. Corrie: Okay. Nary: Same place, different people. Powell: Right. Corrie: Is the applicant here this evening? Raise your hands, please. Is the testimony you're about to give the Council the truth, the whole truth, and nothing, so help you god? Meridian City Council Meeting July 1, 2003 Page 21 of 41 Sokoli: Yes. Garibovic: Yes. Corrie: One at a time, your name and address. Sokoli: My name is Kathy Sokoli. My address is -- do you want my home address or the location? Corrie: Your home address. Sokoli: 11234 East Marlinwood. Corrie: Okay. And -- Garibovic: I'm Zejna Garibovic and my address is 3533 Judicial Drive, Meridian. Corrie: The floor is yours. You want to transfer the -- Sokoli: Yes. Corrie: Okay. Anything you want to say about that transfer? Sokoli: The only thing I would say is that we really want to keep the service for these families. They really count on our service. It's -- that day care does have a good name and we do want to just continue the quality and service that has been provided these families for the past six years. Corrie: Okay. Okay. Anything else? Okay. Thank you. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I guess a question, then, have they presented the license? Powell: We made it a condition of approval that they have a month to provide that to us. I'm sorry. The answer, Councilwoman de Weerd, is, no, we have not seen it yet. De Weerd: I read between the lines. Corrie: Is there anyone else from the public that would like to issue testimony in this request? Okay. Council? De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Meridian City Council Meeting July 1, 2003 Page 22 of 41 Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I move we close the Public Hearing. Nary: Second. Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded to close the Public Hearing on TCU 03- 001, request for a transfer of a Conditional Use Permit. All in favor say aye. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT Corrie: Okay. Motion is approved. The Public Hearing is now closed, any further discussion? Hearing none, I will enter a motion on the request. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I move we approve the request for transfer of a Conditional Use Permit for a child care center in an R-8 zone for All About Kids and ask for the attorney to draw up Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision and Order. Bird: Second. Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded. Is there any further discussion on the request for transfer? Hearing none, roll call vote, Mr. Berg. Roll call: McCandless, absent; Nary, aye; de Weerd, aye; Bird, aye. Corrie: Okay. All ayes. Request for the transfer of a Conditional Use Permit is approved. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT Item 11. AP 03-002 Appeal of Planning and Zoning Commission’s Denial of Blooming Meadows Estates Subdivision Preliminary Plat for by The Cutting Edge, LLC – 4379 North Locust Grove Road: Item 12. Public Hearing: AZ 03-011 Request for annexation and zoning of 11.5 Blooming +/- acres from RUT to R-8 and R-15 zones for proposed Meadows Estates Subdivision by The Cutting Edge, LC – 4379 North Locust Grove Road: Item 13. Public Hearing: CUP 03-022 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a Planned Development for townhouses and single-family homes in Meridian City Council Meeting July 1, 2003 Page 23 of 41 Blooming Meadows Estates proposed R-8 and R-15 zones for proposed Subdivision by The Cutting Edge, LC – 4379 North Locust Grove Road: Corrie: Is the engineer here yet? Yes. Okay. All right. Would you have him come forward, we will open up the -- the Number 11, 12, and 13, and we get it on the road. Raise your right hand, please. Is the testimony you're about to give the Council the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Pack: It is. Corrie: Okay. Name and address, please. th Pack: Lloyd Pack. 1307 North 39 Street, Nampa. Corrie: Okay. We are on the -- Pack: Suite 101. Corrie: We were on the appeal of the denial of the Preliminary Plat at this point, so, you're on. Pack: Excellent. I'm representing the client. I apologize for being late. I had an emergency at home. At any rate, we are appealing the denial of the Preliminary Plat on the grounds primarily that the denial was not in keeping with the Comprehensive Plan for the area. That the primary purpose for denial was to have us address seven staff issues and four issues that the P&Z Commission wanted us to address. Commissioner th Zaremba, in his findings of facts on the 19 of June stated that he did not want to kill this project, but he just wanted to make the developer address these issues and, then, be able to come back before P&Z with the issues addressed and, then, move forward with the project. What we are primarily doing is following the procedure where once the Preliminary Plat is killed by denial of the P&Z Commission, we, therefore, must appeal that denial in order to keep it active, so that we can take it back before the P&Z Commission. We are just following that process so that we might be able to take it back before them with fixes on the staff recommendations in the four conditions that the P&Z Commission wanted us take care of. Now, we have got a conceptual plan of a connection to Locust Grove. We have modified the staff conditions that they would like to see, such as taking care of the potted trees along Settler's irrigation, located along the south property line. They wanted us to open up access to the open space between the townhomes and Locust Grove, which the connection with Locust Grove ends up going away. We have addressed the concerns by holding a neighborhood meeting. We held a neighborhood meeting last night and had the majority of the people who were at the P&Z Commission meeting at the neighborhood meeting and discussed what we had understood to be their primary concerns with the project going forward. They were very concerned at the P&Z with the reduction in property values, so we presented to them the fact that our intention is to put forward town home products that would have a starting price range of around 140,000 dollars, going up. We addressed their concerns Meridian City Council Meeting July 1, 2003 Page 24 of 41 in terms of the detached single family dwelling units and compared those to the average market value of homes in their subdivision, to address the issue of whether or not it would reduce or impact their property values. We also addressed the idea of congestion, acknowledging that any growth in the area is going to increase the traffic load on Locust Grove, but also addressing the fact that with Havasu Creek being to the north of our project at 350 lots, the impact of that 350 will be six times greater than that impact of our project. Now, that does not diminish the impact of our project, it just puts it more into perspective relative to the developments in the area. There was expressed at the neighborhood meeting a large concern over the high-density house -- town home area. We are proposing to go with an R-15 zoning in the annexation and Rezone application. Now, that R-15 was a requirement just because there is nothing in the zoning to allow us to go anywhere between R-8 and R-15. The density that we have is 9.11 dwelling units per acre. We had to go greater than nine -- an R-8 annexation or rezoning, just because we were trying to follow the Comprehensive Plan, which requires the bare minimum, as you know, of eight lots per acre. In order to have the bare minimum eight, we ended up, as I pointed out, was that we ended up with 9.11, which demanded that we go for R-15 annexation or zoning as part of the annexation. In looking at their -- the primary concern of the density, is relative to the R-15 zoning is my understanding. There were expressed desires to have this Rezoned to R-4 entirely. That seemed to be more in keeping with the general consensus of the neighborhood. Unfortunately, that isn't in keeping with the Comprehensive Plan. We either need to depart from the Comprehensive Plan to accomplish that goal, which, as you know, staff plans on -- staff is constrained by the Comprehensive Plan. When you go in to sit down with them and ask them what it is that you can put on the ground, they pull out the Comprehensive Plan and say, well, part of your project is in the neighborhood center, therefore, you must have a density of at least eight homes per acre or eight lots per acre. Given those constraints, we could not go to an R-4 without variance from the Comprehensive Plan and so we wanted to go with at least the R-8, which we are looking for in the back portion, which meets the Comprehensive Plan meeting density requirements. Then, right within the neighborhood center itself, in which the town home section of this project falls, we are looking for that greater than the lots, which take us into the R-15 zone. The primary concern with the density is, one that it is a concern -- essentially, is addressed toward the Comprehensive Plan. Our inference from the neighbors is that they do not like the Comprehensive Plan, that it doesn't represent what's going to be best for this particular neighborhood. Our project happens to be one that we are trying to comply with the Comprehensive Plan per staff requirements and it just doesn't meet what the neighbors would like to see on the ground. Would you like to see the conceptual drawing that we have put together for the access to Locust Grove at this point? Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: No, because the fact is that they were asked to bring back a Preliminary Plat and I've never seen a concept drawing to be construed as a Preliminary Plat and that's -- I Meridian City Council Meeting July 1, 2003 Page 25 of 41 mean this is exactly what the appeal was for, was for a Preliminary Plat. Well, this conceptual thing is just something that you take and move the area around to get what you thought that they wanted, but what I want to see -- what I want to see is the Preliminary Plat if that's what I'm going to vote on and it can't be conceptual. I've never voted on a conceptual Preliminary Plat yet. Pack: And I would agree that that would be the ideal condition. The appeal process, though, requires us to appeal the Preliminary Plat that was denied by the Planning and Zoning. Bird: That means to bring back a Preliminary Plat drawing, not a conceptual one. We have seen your conceptual one and it -- I mean you moved some lines up so you had a clear corridor and everything else like that, but I want to see the Preliminary Plat drawn out on -- as a legal piece of paper. That's what a Preliminary Plat is. Pack: And, Councilman Bird, I appreciate that. In order to go through that -- the time that we had in order to deny and, then, appear here, along with the annexation and Conditional Use Permit, did not allow us the 30 days to go back to ACHD to acquire their permission for the access. They have denied access on Locust Grove with the Preliminary Plat as it stood and they were in agreement with that original Preliminary Plat. That starts the ball rolling and that's why we request for a remand to P&Z, so that we can go back, develop the Preliminary Plat, go through the procedure with ACHD. Basically, revise the Preliminary Plat entirely, so that we can take into account the concerns addressed by the neighborhood meeting and the concerns addressed by the P&Z Commission, so that we can have that connection to Locust Grove, as everyone desires. Now, originally -- and just addressing that, my understanding was that there was some concern with the neighbor to the south being in agreement with granting access to that property through there for the connection with Locust Grove and ACHD did not want to allow connection unless it aligned with Star Lane across the street. The neighbor to the south Lonnie Johnson stated at the P&Z meeting and testified that he has been in support of that connection and would work with us to obtain that. Then, we have had some meeting with him toward that end at this point. The preliminary groundwork has been laid to rework this plat and all that we are asking at this point is that we be remanded back to P&Z, so that we can fulfill those requirements. Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: We can remand you back and the application -- you can't go any farther until, you know -- I mean that is something that the applicant can reapply new and start off right by -- you had your first town meeting -- or not town meeting, neighborhood meeting. You start off by having another neighborhood meeting and listen to them. Like I told your partner there, you don't have to go 100 percent what they say, but you should listen -- you should listen to them and that's why we have them and that's why the ones that have the neighborhood meeting up front, the developments usually fly through here Meridian City Council Meeting July 1, 2003 Page 26 of 41 like nothing, and the ones that don't we have problems. We have the Public Hearing and -- Pack: And I can appreciate that. I wish I had been involved with this more from the beginning. Bird: I understand that. We all do. Pack: And so, then, we could have maybe made some different choices. At this point, essentially, remanding us back is the same -- going to do the same thing as pulling the application, in terms of the way the problem gets solved. Bird: Well, Anna probably can answer that better than I can. Powell: I'm sorry? Bird: Anna, he wants to know if he -- if we remanded it back or him pulling it and reapplying is basically the same. Powell: The difference would be the application fees. He would be subject to new application fees if he withdraws and resubmits, but you could remand it back at a date or at a -- just remand it back and he would have to supply new information before we scheduled it for P&Z, I believe. It's really a question of just keeping the file number alive and the application alive and the fees collected with that. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I guess in the past -- and it's not that we are in this to generate new fees, but it's going to require a lot more of our staff time, because it will be just like a new application and it should start a new process, beginning with the neighborhood meeting, and the public process with ACHD and the public meetings there with the roads -- I -- when we remand -- and we have done it a few times, it's been on a technical -- specific technical issue, not a whole redesign and so I -- my opinion hasn't changed. I think that this just needs to start the process again and this time do it right. You know, I appreciate that you have worked with our staff, but anything you do now, they are going to be dealing with it just like it was a new application and so -- Pack: In light of that, then, I think we will pull the application and we will begin the process anew. De Weerd: Okay. Pack: Does that meet with your satisfaction? Meridian City Council Meeting July 1, 2003 Page 27 of 41 Bird: On all three Public Hearings, too? Pack: I don't know if there is a point in continuing the other two at this point, so -- Bird: That would be the easiest, to just -- Pack: Do you need me to send a letter to you for officially pulling these? Corrie: Pulling the whole thing -- Pack: Okay. Corrie: -- and starting all over, because we are getting a -- I'm getting the high sign from the attorney. I know what I'd do, but let's see what the law is. Nichols: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, typically, we deal with the letter thing when we are in limbo and we are not in the middle of a Public Hearing with someone under oath. Here we have him under oath withdrawing the application. We can prepare just a short order on the appeal and on the other two saying that the applicant withdrew them, in order to resubmit a new application to make the changes. Pack: So, if I understand correctly, you're saying that you do not want a letter from me, because I'm repeating under oath and that suffices for the letter? Nichols: That's what I'm saying. Pack: Okay so that I understand. Corrie: It sounds a lot simpler than what I would have done. If you -- since you are under oath and you want to pull those three, then, we will be all done and you can come back with a new application and start all over. Nichols: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Nichols. Nichols: Mr. Mayor, If Mr. McGrath can just confirm that for us and, then, we have got both the developer and the engineer saying that it's pulled, then, that's all we need. McGraw: And for the clarification, it's McGraw. We will pull the application and I'll just verify that I'm not acting alone. Corrie: Do you agree? You're going to pull all three of them and it's all over and you start all over. Pack: Absolutely. Meridian City Council Meeting July 1, 2003 Page 28 of 41 Corrie: Okay. Nary: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: You can certainly get the minutes from our earlier discussion if you want, but I think the only thing that -- probably the gist of that -- there is a lot of people out here who have an interest and I'm sure you're aware of that. Our intent of those neighborhood meetings is to really have some dialogue and communication about it and I suggest that you do that before you bring this back. Pack: Okay. Thank you. Anything else? Corrie: No. That's all we need. Thank you. Now, for the audience, to let you know what's happening here, Item Numbers 11, 12, and 13 is void. They have to start -- they are going to start all over. They are going to -- I hope they have the neighborhood meetings with you and they work together and see what they can do. They have an opinion, you have an opinion, work it out, they are going to come back to the Planning and Zoning, and it starts all over again. I don't know whether there is a winner or loser here, but it's the way the republic is and you have your voice and it sounds to me like you got the point across to us so, thank you. Sherer: May I take just a minute? Corrie: its -- come up here a minute. Sherer: I wanted to apologize. Corrie: Okay. Sherer: I want to apologize to you, to the Council, and to the city attorney, Mr. Clerk and the Planning and Zoning people. I was out of order and I momentarily forgot my forum and I do apologize. That's all I wanted to say. Corrie: I thought sure that's what you were going to say, but I -- De Weerd: Can we get your name and address for the record? Corrie: I know who he is and I know where he lives. All right. Then, we will do Item 8 now at this time, so if anyone would like to leave -- we'd love to have you sit down and listen to us, so -- thank you. Item 8. Public Hearing: PP 03-009 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 12 Bear building lots and 6 other lots on 10.92 acres in an R-4 zone for Meridian City Council Meeting July 1, 2003 Page 29 of 41 Creek No. 7 by Bear Creek, LLC – north of West Victory Road and east of South Stoddard Road: Corrie: Item Number 8 is a Public Hearing. This is for a Preliminary Plat approval of 12 building lots and six other lots on 10.92 acres in an R-4 zone for Bear Creek No. 7 by Bear Creek, LLC, north of West Victory Road and east of South Stoddard Road. At this time, I will open the Public Hearing and invite staff's comments first. Powell: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, this is a redo of a Preliminary Plat on this portion of the property. Originally -- the original density was a little higher. They have come in with some larger lots. It's located at the intersection of Stoddard and Victory Road. The phases to the north have developed and have been done. The northern boundary of the property is the Ridenbaugh Canal along here. This is the proposed layout. The internal street would be a private street. They do have a request in for a variance on the cul-de-sac length. There was -- you will be seeing that later, so this is coming to you as a Preliminary Plat, but it does exceed the Variance length for a cul-de- sac and it will be gated approximately in this location. There was a fair amount of discussion at the Planning and Zoning Commission, so I want to go over some of the items they talked about. This plat, as submitted, does not hit the five percent minimum open space that's required of subdivisions. Do we have -- I'm being told that it does meet -- I'm sorry. There is a little confusion on that issue. I believe that the revised plat does show that minimum of five percent. They were close. It's a small lot. They were close on the -- the minimum open space. There was a question of square feet, not acres, so it was very close. Most of the discussion was on the -- whether or not a pathway was appropriate. The Comprehensive Plan does designate the Ridenbaugh Canal as one of the major pathways for the city. The applicant had requested that instead of providing a pathway along the Ridenbaugh that they be -- that the sidewalk system along Victory and Stoddard be considered the continuation of that pathway through the property. The Planning and Zoning did -- in their motion they struck the requirement that staff had originally had in there to provide the pathway along the Ridenbaugh Canal and, as I stated, the applicant has submitted a variance request. It is coming before you at a later date. That would address some of the -- some of the issues raised at the Planning and Zoning Commission regarding the cul-de-sac. There was a question of safety, getting into that area, when there is just one -- one road going into it and a gated road at that. They have met the Fire Department's concerns by putting a knock box at the gate and there a relatively limited number of lots in this subdivision, so the Planning and Zoning Commission felt that the longer cul-de-sac length wasn't inappropriate, given the few number of lots that it was serving. Perhaps the two outstanding issues are whether the cul-de-sac length is appropriate and whether they should provide a pathway along the Ridenbaugh Canal, as proposed in the Comprehensive Plan. It does come forward to you with a recommendation from the Planning and Zoning Commission. That's the end of staff's comments. Corrie: Thank you, Anna, any questions, Council? Bird: I have none. Meridian City Council Meeting July 1, 2003 Page 30 of 41 Corrie: Okay. Is the developer here this evening? Is the testimony you are about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Arnold: Yes, it is. Corrie: Name and address, please. Arnold: For the record, my name is Steve Arnold I'm with Briggs Engineering, 1800 West Overland Road. I'm here representing the applicant tonight of Bear Creek, LLC. I will briefly discuss, basically, the project in general and, then, I will go into the issues that were raised tonight by the staff. What we have here tonight is basically the same thing that the Council approved back in '99, with the only exception of the private road. As it stands right now, the Preliminary Plat approval for this phase is still active and we still have that approval. The reason we are back here before you tonight, we have -- again, we have eliminated a lot. The developer wants to create kind of an exclusive community here with nicer, larger homes. We are planning to do quite a bit more extensive landscaping in front. As a matter of fact, we talked about a water amenity, some sort of creek along Stoddard Road, because the project name is Bear Creek and in the whole subdivision, we don't have a creek. Hence, the -- we are trying to make a nice gated entry there and I have done similar entries on other developments with water and I think what we have before you tonight is a better project than what we previously got approved from you, so -- I will go into the issues that was raised. Basically, the staff report, as it stands right now, we are in full support. The Planning and Zoning Commission and concerns with the pathway, they heard our testimony, they discussed the issues of placing the pathway there. One of the biggest concerns that they had was the safety. The Ridenbaugh Canal there is concrete lined and that is a serious safety consideration that we have, along with P&Z. The other testimony that I presented that night was -- and this Council is very familiar my other problem, the Lakes at Cherry Lane No. 9, which I promised to get to you with a modification the middle of July -- it might be the end of July now. I don't want to have to go back before Nampa-Meridian and the P&Z council, fighting with them trying to get a pathway in there. There was discussion about the master agreement plan, but that agreement discusses purely drainage. This is a high volume canal and I can guarantee you I can't get that approved. You guys may, but that's a battle I don't want to have to deal with again. It's been three years with the Lakes at Cherry Lane -- over three years with the Lakes at Cherry Lane No. 9 and I don't want to have to deal with that. The open space, we adjusted the plat, we do have the five percent open space in there right now, so we did comply with that. The cul-de-sac length, this was an issue and I'd ask some guidance from the attorney, but the Preliminary Plats for Bear Creek back in 1999 was approved with this exact same configuration. The only thing different was we had a hammerhead turn around at the end, instead of the turn around of -- the radius turn around, which you're seeing now. It was my understanding that the variances ran with the property, I - - because the Council previously granted this, it was my understanding that that would be granted with this. I may be wrong. That being said, not being sure if that was the case. We submitted a variance that will be up before you. If we don't need it -- I just as Meridian City Council Meeting July 1, 2003 Page 31 of 41 soon not be at another Public Hearing. I wouldn't mind having to withdraw that, perhaps even get the fees back. In regards to safety, I remember someone at ACHD that told this developer not just no, but, heck no, you can't have access out on Victory. They got site distance and issues at that location and Stoddard Road was safe, so we looked at modifying the entrance and strongly recommended to the developer not to put it out onto Victory, that there is no amount of grading that would have made that safe, so -- this is the configuration that was developed and I don't see much of other -- any options. Again, we have -- we believe we have created a better plat than what we had currently, and we are before you tonight asking your approval of that design. I'll stand for any questions. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: No questions, but I agree with you on the pathway. Anna, is there anything that will connect to this to make it reasonable to require the pathway along there? Powell: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, this is a significantly different situation than the Lakes at Cherry Lane and that is that pathway was provided in that subdivision as an amenity proposed by the applicant. In this case it is shown on as a designated pathway on the master -- on the Comprehensive Plan. There is the potential, as you see here, there is all undeveloped land to the north of that. It could potentially go through there and as well over here, although we wouldn't -- the Comp Plan shows it kind of coming down around the lakes in that location. We would anticipate that it would probably go over there and, then, pick up here at these larger parcels and redevelop. There is the potential that this could connect to a citywide system, yes. Presumably, that the Commission and the Council was aware that the Ridenbaugh was largely a concrete lined canal at the time that the Comprehensive Plan was prepared. De Weerd: Well, that may be true, but I do know there has always been this desire from this Council to have a more realistic pathway plan, to have someone really study that. Because at that time, you know, it still was conceptual and I don't know how much forethought went into it as far as safety, who pays for it, and some of the realisms of will it ever connect together. There is still work to be done with the pathway and I guess as we are looking at one of the first pieces in this whole thing, we need to really think about is it reasonable or is it more reasonable taking it through a meandering type of sidewalk, to connect it from one point to another or what. I don't know. I don't know. Arnold: Mr. Mayor, you know if I can address the issue of the pathway. I think it's a good idea. I mean, as Anna explained, you have got a long canal and irrigation ways, it's a good idea to have those pathways. They are nice to connect, but I would have some concerns, again, going back to the safety issue, but my number one thing is having to deal with Nampa-Meridian with this canal issue. I have had a very bad experience with The Lakes at Cherry No. 9. Amenity or not, they don't care, they see it as a liability, they see it as a problem for them, and if this Council can get some of that Meridian City Council Meeting July 1, 2003 Page 32 of 41 concerns from them taken away and start putting pathways out there, I think that's good. I think that's good planning, I think they are nice to walk on, regardless if it's concrete or not, you know, people are going to walk on it regardless. In this situation, I think you have got the alternative connection with the Stoddard Road and Victory Road sidewalk, so if, for any reason in the future, you do get what staff is recommending on these other pathways, I don't think by eliminating this connection that you're giving up future options in that area. So -- and the main thing is I don't want to work with Nampa-Meridian. I don't think -- four years of not very pleasantry -- Nary: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Tell us how you really feel. Arnold: I'll recommend they pull the application. Nary: Really, the bottom line, Mr. Arnold, is you would like to eliminate that, so you don't have to deal with it anymore, because it really doesn't make a lot of difference to us. We don't have to deal with it, you do. Arnold: Mr. Mayor? Nary: I want to hear you ask it like that. Arnold: I will turn it around in a different angle. You will have to deal with me having to deal with that. Nary: Well, that's a pretty good incentive as well. I do commend you folks for at least wanting to put in a creek. You know, there is not a vineyard in the Vineyards and I don't think Fairview Lakes has put a lake in, so -- but that's kind of normal, but I commend you for wanting to at least provide an amenity. I think the thing to -- Arnold: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Nary, I think this is probably -- this is going to be one of the last phases. I think this is probably going to be the cream of Bear Creek, so I think the projects have been great and with these types of projects it's nice to stand before you and ask for approval, so -- Powell: Mr. Mayor? Arnold: -- I'll ask for a motion and I'll shut up and stand for questions. Powell: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, it's been perhaps a compromise, hearing the concerns I'm hearing -- I have heard, is that maybe the city might leave an option open for a pathway at a future date. It is in -- the Ridenbaugh easement is within a single lot in the subdivision and if we could perhaps leave an easement, but not require the applicant to construct a pathway at this time, at least we would be -- if, in the future, Meridian City Council Meeting July 1, 2003 Page 33 of 41 you decide that a pathway is appropriate through that area, then, at least you have that ability to go and construct it at a later date. Corrie: Okay. I don't think it will happen, but – Council do you have any questions? Bird: No, I don't. Nary: No. Corrie: Do you have anything else? Arnold: No. I have nothing else. Corrie: Well. This is a Public Hearing, anyone else from the public that would like to issue testimony? Yes, sir. Yes. Is the testimony you are about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Bail: Yes, it is. Corrie: Name and address, please. Bail: My name is Rich Bail. I live at 3114 Stoddard Road. I live in the house on the corner. They told me I had about three years. This really doesn't concern what's going on right here this evening, but the people who we pay our rent to -- well, of course, Bear Creek has -- Corrie: Can you see your -- Bail: You can see our roof up there. Corrie: Okay. Bail: But my wife and I are having a house built over in Caldwell and we are not going to be able to get into it until the early fall or something like that. I didn't know if I was going to be able to meet anybody from Bear Creek this evening or what the plans were, kind of why I want to come and sit through and find out what was going on. Nobody has actually told us yet, the owners or the people we pay our rent to. If we have to get out -- I have heard two different dates and both the dates are a little bit earlier than what -- what I'm -- I don't want to have to sign a lease to rent a place when our house is going to be done in early fall. I was hoping to meet somebody maybe from Bear Creek who could, you know, let me know, you know, what was going to go on here. It's a beautiful view. I'd love to own that house. It's going to be a beautiful place to live, from what I have heard. It's a spectacular view. We have been there for a year. The mountains, the whole valley. I'd love to live there, but it's going to be a very nice place and it sounds like they are doing a really nice job and I was just really curious to see if I was going to be able to stay there for two or three more months, you know, unless -- that's Meridian City Council Meeting July 1, 2003 Page 34 of 41 kind of why I came. I didn't know what was going to be said this evening or -- you know, that's why I'm here. Corrie: Okay. Let me ask -- I don't think that it will probably have that much affect on you -- on the house, will it, the construction of the -- Arnold: Mr. Mayor. I guess you are on the property that we are developing or are you across the road? Bail: No. I'm -- this is my house right there. Well, not my house, but I live right there. Arnold: Oh. Okay. Bail: The only house -- now, Bear Creek already owns this house right -- Arnold: Right. Bail: -- there. They pay their rent to -- we pay our rent to -- to the people that still own -- the owners have -- when they came to change the filter on the furnace last Monday, they did tell us that they were -- as of August Bear Creek was going to own that. She didn't -- she just didn't know whether they were going to make us leave immediately or if we were going to have to pay our rent to them or -- she couldn't tell us. You know, we are having a home built and it's going to take a few months to get done, but -- it's over in Caldwell. We are having a nice home built there. Corrie: Do you think this follows or do you even know? Arnold: Mr. Mayor, I guess -- I don't know right off the bat. I can tell you what we are developing first, though, is -- we have got Bear Creek 6 that you just saw and approved. You're about to see Bear Creek 8 coming in. I think that's the next focus of their development. Those are the lots that are of concern. Bear Creek 8 is the vacant parcel there. I don't -- I can't speak on behalf of -- are we doing this phase contiguous. I can tell you that those lot sizes that we have got in Bear Creek, which you have here before you tonight they are the slowest moving. I can't say for certain that we are not going to do it simultaneously. I would base my comment tonight on the market, which they are driving us to do. I know they are pushing me pretty hard to get Bear Creek 8 into you guys, along with Bear Creek 6. Thinking out loud, Bear Creek 6, we just, again, construction, that's probably 90 days on that. I think when we move off that phase, we will start Bear Creek 8. I can say for certain we have got 90 days -- 90 to 120 days of construction, but, seven, I just -- I would guess we'd hit that early somewhere around the first of the year. I'm not sure when you're building, but I know that -- I just moved and built and I know what it's like renting and it's not pleasant. I guess I can get your name and number and get with the developer and -- Meridian City Council Meeting July 1, 2003 Page 35 of 41 Bail: I kind of thought maybe they had already put the lot on the market, because last week there was a lot of people in the field behind and beside our house, walking around in my backyard and taking snap shots of the view. I wanted to put up a sign and -- Corrie: Why don't we do this, you give him your name and he can kind of contact you and say what it's going to be there, because I don't know -- it's kind of hard for us to tell what they are going to do after we are finished here, but he's an got idea, but we never know. th Bail: Yes. I heard two different -- I have heard September 30, then, I did hear the st other day August 1 and I'm thinking -- Corrie: That may be a little fast. You can discuss it with him. Bail: I appreciate this. I didn't know if I would be paying rent -- I didn't know who I -- apparently I didn't know who to pay the rent and possibly the last month when I went to pay the rent and I said, well, who are we going to pay rent to. She said maybe nobody. I'm thinking -- Nary: Free rent. Bail: Just got scared, so I went online last night and found out that, you know, the law in Idaho, that somebody has to give you 30 days written notice or something, something st like that, so I thought, well, July 1 I might have two more -- Corrie: Maybe they can work it out with you and maybe -- Bail: Just a couple two or three months and we are out of there, but -- it's hard to find a place a rent month by month. Corrie: I understand. Nary: If you were building a house in Bear Creek, you would have more time. Bail: Like I said, it's a beautiful -- the most beautiful view I have ever, you know, seen in the valley and it's going to be an exclusive place. Corrie: Okay. Bail: It's going to be out of my league. Corrie: Okay. Thank you, Rich. Anyone else like to give testimony? Okay. Hearing none, questions on the Public Hearing? Bird: I have none. Meridian City Council Meeting July 1, 2003 Page 36 of 41 Corrie: Okay. I will entertain a motion to close the Public Hearing. Nary: So moved. Bird: Second. Corrie: Motion made and seconded to close the Public Hearing on the PP 03-009, request for Preliminary Plat. All those in favor say aye. Opposed no. All ayes. MOTION CARRIED: TWO AYES, TWO ABSENT Corrie: Okay, any other questions? Okay. Then I will entertain a motion on the request for the Preliminary Plat. Nary: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: I would move the approval of PP 03-009 request for Preliminary Plat approval of 12 building lots and six other lots on 10.92 acres in an R-4 zone for Bear Creek No. 7 by Bear Creek, LLC. North of West Victory Road and east of South Stoddard Road, to include all staff comments and comments as presented by the applicant this evening, with an amendment to Item 12 of the conditions of approval of the Preliminary Plat. That the condition now reflect that the applicant will provide an easement located on the south side of the Ridenbaugh Canal to be used -- to potentially be used at some point in the future for the Parks Department master pathway plan, any other language consistent with that. That they not be required to construct a multi-use pathway, a micro-path connection at this point. Bird: Second. Corrie: Okay. Motion and -- Nary: Oh, and Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision and Order. Sorry. Bird: Second agrees. Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded. Is there any further discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote, Mr. Berg. Roll call: McCandless, absent; Nary, aye; de Weerd, absent; Bird, aye. Corrie: Okay. The Preliminary Plat request is approved. MOTION CARRIED: TWO AYES, TWO ABSENT Meridian City Council Meeting July 1, 2003 Page 37 of 41 Item 9. Public Hearing: PP 03-006 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 17 building lots and 2 other lots on 10.17 acres in C-N and R-40 zones for Devon Park No. 2 by Fairview Lakes, LLC – 824 East Fairview Avenue: Corrie: Item Number 9 is a Public Hearing. This is a request for a Preliminary Plat approval of 17 building lots and two other lots on 10.17 acres in a C-N and R-40 zones for Devon Park No. 2 by Fairview Lakes, LLC, 824 East Fairview Avenue. At this time, I will open the Public Hearing and invite staff's comments first. Powell: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, this property is probably looking fairly familiar to you at this point. You recently saw a Planned Development -- this property had a Planned Development application that came through that was approved and, then, the applicant submitted a revised Planned Development application that has also come through and that was recently approved. It did not have the Preliminary Plat -- the Preliminary Plat accompanying it. That was filed CUP 03-014. The applicant -- as shown up here, this is a -- this proposal tonight is Devon Park No. 2, as you have originally seen it, and Devon Park No. 1. It is located on Fairview Avenue. The portion of the property that's in Devon Park No. 1 is -- that's the area in Devon Park No. 1. The southern portion is the area within Devon Park No. 2. The applicant is proposing this L- shape on the northern portion and, then, the southeastern portion of Devon Park No. 2. This is consistent with the Planned Development that you have approved. The Planned Development covers the whole area for Devon Park No. 1. They are choosing to withhold this at this time, the western portion of the site. They are going to see how the market forces go on this portion and, then, they will likely resubmit for a similar pattern or a mirrored pattern on there. These are apartment uses clustered around the open space of the related canal and, then, these are small office lots. This is the Landscape Plan. It includes all of Devon Park No. 1 and Devon Park No. 2 at this point. The portion we are looking tonight, again, goes -- makes an L shape to get the north and eastern portions of that property there. These are small commercial and office lots along the perimeter and, then, also in the center. Staff has no issues with the Preliminary Plat. It is recommended for approval from the Planning and Zoning Commission. Really, the issue, the designs were worked out at the Planned Development stage and they have proposed one that is consistent with that approved Planned Development application. Corrie: All right. Thank you, Anna. Any questions from staff? Bird: I have none. Corrie: Okay. Is the applicant's representative here tonight? Is the testimony you are about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Tamura: Yes, it is. Corrie: Thank you. Name and address, please. Meridian City Council Meeting July 1, 2003 Page 38 of 41 Tamura: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, my name is Doug Tamura, 499 Main Street. I'm one of the owners and developers of this project and I'm just here to say that we concur with staff's recommendations of approval of this project. The only thing I have got is one kind of housekeeping item -- is under Item Number 6. It says applicant shall revise the plat to correctly place the 35 foot wide landscape buffer, so they do not include the 45 feet -- the extra ten feet of right-of-way dedication. Do you know where that -- where that dimension is at? The only thing that we could think of was along Fairview Avenue and we have met with the Highway District and what the Highway District was thinking that we had an option. One of the things that I told them was that we were going to apply for a License Agreement to put the sidewalk on our -- inside the landscape buffer along Fairview. Then, that way it would prevent them from having to purchase the right of way from us and they could live with the existing right of way for the width of Fairview. I don't know if that's what they are talking about, but that's the only thing that I could see that would apply to that one condition and to at least clean it up, so it's not confusing. Or maybe we should just delete Number 6. Can you find it, Brad? Powell: Mayor, Members of the Council, we are not sure. That may have been a hold over from the original -- one of the original approvals where it did connect down to Fairview, because just first glance would seem that that does seem to be excessively wide for -- given that they don't have frontage on an arterial road. We can blame it on Dave. Nary: Blame it on Dave. Corrie: We will do that. Powell: We can work with the applicant to review that and find the appropriate one. I'm not sure how you'd like to deal with it. For now we can, either propose to strike it and add it as a condition of the Final Plat if it's still appropriate or if it's -- Corrie: Thank you. Any questions? Okay. Is there anybody else from the public that would like to issue testimony? All right. Then, I will entertain a motion to close the Public Hearing. Bird: So moved. Nary: Second. Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded to close the Public Hearing. All in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried. Public Hearing is closed on Item Number 9. MOTION CARRIED: TWO AYES, TWO ABSENT Corrie: Any further discussion? Meridian City Council Meeting July 1, 2003 Page 39 of 41 Bird: I have none. Nary: No. Corrie: Then, I'll entertain a motion on the Preliminary Plat of Devon Park No. 2. Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I would move that we approve PP 03-006, request for Preliminary Plat approval of 17 building lots, and two other lots on 10.17 acres in C-N and R-4 zones for Devon Park No. 2 by Fairview Lakes, LLC, 824 East Fairview Avenue. To strike Item Number 6 in the conditions and to come back on the Final Plat and for the attorney to draw up Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision and Order. Nary: Second. Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded for approval of a request, any further discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote, Mr. Berg. Roll call: McCandless, absent; Nary, aye; de Weerd, absent; Bird, aye. Corrie: Okay. All ayes. Motion is approved. Or that is with two ayes motion is approved. MOTION CARRIED: TWO AYES, TWO ABSENT Item 10. Public Hearing: PFP 03-002 Request for Preliminary / Final Plat Gaudry approval of 3 building lots on 1.55 acres in an L-O zone for Seegmiller Subdivision by Gordon N. Anderson – southeast corner of East Gala Street and South Millennium: Corrie: Item Number 10 is a Public Hearing, request for a preliminary/Final Plat approval of three building lots on 1.55 acres in an L-O zone for Gaudry Seegmiller Subdivision by Gordon N. Anderson, southeast corner of East Gala Street and South Millennium. I will open the Public Hearing and invite staff's comments. Powell: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, this is yet another in a series of re- subdivisions and I believe it's Millennium Subdivision is the parent subdivision. On this one they are -- do have access along two roads, that's Gala and Millennium Way. This was a combined preliminary and final. That first drawing you saw was the Preliminary Plat. The Final Plat is a lot easier to read. They do -- are proposing three lots. Each would have frontage on a public road. Lot 1 takes access off of Gala. Lot 2 is the corner lot with frontage on both Millennium Way and Gala Street and, then, Lot 3 would Meridian City Council Meeting July 1, 2003 Page 40 of 41 have -- would have frontage along Millennium Way, although the access would come -- be internal to the subdivision. They are providing two access points, one at Gala Street and one off of Millennium Way and, then, they have shown a cross-access here on the flag of the lot below and that will be an issue, so I will go briefly to show you that flag lot. This lot has a minimum amount of frontage on Millennium Way and, then, it is kind of tucked behind in the corner of this area here. This is -- both of these are vacant parcels surrounding the subject property. This came forward with a recommendation for approval from the Planning and Zoning Commission. The primary issue of discussion was the need for cross-access within the subdivision to the surrounding property. At that time they specifically talked about adding cross-access at this point and at this point. Please note that they do have cross-access or a point to access the flag lot at this location here. The Planning and Zoning Commission required that applicant submit a revised plat to us ten days prior to hearing. I have -- they have not provided that. I believe it's because they do not wish to provide the cross-access and I believe the applicant can speak to that issue. Staff had -- the consensus among staff was that, yes, this should go through. Applicant -- the property owner to the south did -- was pushing for this particular access, so they could have access straight from Gala Street into their property, rather than having to come kind of this round about way. I guess it's a good question for City Council as to which route would be most appropriate. The city has made a commitment to having interconnected commercial properties. It's a hard call for staff on this one whether it would be appropriate or not. At a minimum, staff would like to see a pedestrian connection at this location. That includes staff remarks. Corrie: Okay. Thank you, any questions for staff? Bird: I have none. Corrie: All right. This is a Public Hearing. Is the applicant here this evening? Good time to continue the Public Hearing. Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: Anna, I got a question. You said one of the conditions that they had to have a revised Preliminary Plat in here ten days before we put it on the schedule -- we put it on our calendar. Why do we put it on our calendar if we didn't have a deal -- we didn't have the revised, if that was one of the conditions you want to put it on there. Is there a reason? Mr. Clerk, is it a legal reason or something that we -- okay. That's what I thought. That's what I was thinking. We have so many days to do it -- Berg: Yes, Councilman Bird, we had already noticed the Public Hearing in the paper way prior to the 10 days. Powell: Mr. Mayor, Council member Bird, typically, what we would do when we haven't received that is just automatically request to continue it. Where it didn't require much Meridian City Council Meeting July 1, 2003 Page 41 of 41 imagination to envision what the cross-access would mean in this instance, I decided to go ahead and present it to you, not knowing that there was no applicant, so I'm sorry about that. Bird: No problem. Not your fault. Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: With that I would move that we continue Public Hearing PFP 03-002, request for preliminary and Final Plat approval of three building lots on 1.55 acres in an L-O zone Gaudry Seegmiller Subdivision by Gordon Anderson, until July 22, 2003. Nary: Second. Corrie. Okay. Motion has been made to continue the Public Hearing on Item PFP 03- 002, request for Preliminary and Final Plat. Is there any further discussion? All those in favor of the motion say aye. Two ayes. Motion carries. MOTION CARRIED: TWO AYES, TWO ABSENT Corrie: Okay. That ends our meeting tonight, so I will entertain a motion to adjourn, if there is nothing else. Nary: Mr. Mayor, I'd move to adjourn. Bird: Second. Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded. All those in favor say aye? MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Corrie: We adjourned at five minutes until 9:00. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 8:55 P.M. (TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) APPROVED: / / ROBERT D. CORRIE, MAYOR DATE ATTESTED: WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., CITY CLERK