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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2003 05-13 Joint Ada County Meridian City Council Joint Meeting May 13, 2003 With Ada County Commissioners The Special Joint Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 5:30 P.M. on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 by Council President De Weerd. Council members Present: Cherie McCandless, Bill Nary, Tammy de Weerd, and Keith Bird. Council members Absent: Mayor Robert Corrie. Ada County Commissioners Present: Judy Peavey-Derr and Rick Yzaguirre. City of Meridian Staff Present: Brad Hawkins-Clark, Anna Powell, Bill Nichols, Brad Watson, Gary Smith, Mike Worley and Will Berg. Ada County Staff Present: Patricia Nilsson. Item 1. Roll call Attendance: __X Tammy de Weerd _ X__ Bill Nary __X Cherie McCandless __X Keith Bird ___O__ Mayor Robert Corrie De Weerd: I will go ahead and call to order the Meridian City Council Workshop Special Meeting for Tuesday May 13 at 6:00. Peavey-Derr: Commissioner Yzaguirre and Commissioner Peavey-Derr are present. De Weerd: Thank you. Council we have an agenda that we need to adopt. So I would consider a motion. McCandless: I move we adopt the agenda. Bird: Second. De Weerd: All those in favor say aye. Item 3. Request by the City of Meridian for Ada County’s Adoption of Meridian’s July 2002 Comprehensive Plan (Resolution Number 02-382): De Weerd: Item three. Request by the City of Meridian for Ada County’s Adoption of Meridian’s July 2002 Comprehensive Plan. Resolution number 02- 382. I believe Brad Hawkins-Clark will start with the – Meridian City Council Special Joint Meeting Workshop with Ada County Commissioners May 13, 2003 Page 2 of 18 Yzaguirre: Madam President if I could just to clarify what we are trying to accomplish here tonight. My understanding we’re just here to listen and collect information and share information for public hearings and further action down the road. Is that right. De Weerd: Exactly. Yzaguirre: Is that your understanding. De Weerd: What we would like to do is to introduce our Comprehensive Plan to you and give you an opportunity to ask questions as to how it got there and maybe things that you have seen that you want further clarification on it. The Council or staff can provide to you. Brad thank you. Hawkins-Clark: Thank you Council, Commissioners. My name is Brad Hawkins- Clark and I’m with the City Planning and Zoning Department. And I was just going to touch briefly on some of the differences between the plan that Ada County has already adopted and the plan that we are asking you to adopt. We’ve gotten better over the years we have colored pages now instead of black and white. Peavey-Derr: I noticed that. I was impressed. Hawkins-Clark: What we are looking at here are just the land use maps. The text policies are outlined in both of these documents here and there are numerous aspects of the policies that got a lot of discussion during our hearing process. We started in June of 99 and we hired Science Applications International Incorporation that’s AIC has our technical consultant. They came on and helped us put together a series of workshops and (inaudible). It took us a year basically to get a draft that we had ready to go to the public. So it was June of 2000 we had a public open house. That generated quite a bit of interest. The hearings began about three to four months after that. The map that the City Council adopted August of last year looks very different then what we had originally put out to the public in early 2000. So I won’t necessarily go back over all the reiterations but (inaudible) to say there was a lot of discussion about really three main areas. The neighborhood centers, these half moon shaped figures on the map. The Urban Service Planning Area, which as you know we currently have in place and we had originally proposed to change to that. That was taken off the map so I won’t go in to a lot of that. But the original goal that we presented up front was for the City of Meridian to prioritize where our growth areas were. What we felt our growth areas were. So we basically took the Urban Service Planning Area boundary and shrunk it in a couple of places leaving mainly this north corridor and some of our southwest area outside the Urban Service Planning Area which the joint ordinance that we both adopted basically says it’s a feature that we can put in our agreements that the City of Meridian City Council Special Joint Meeting Workshop with Ada County Commissioners May 13, 2003 Page 3 of 18 Meridian agrees to service all land within those boundaries. We were kind of using it more of as a tool not to say that we will never service these areas but this is what were we want north to go. The vast majority of the opinions that we got from developers and some of the private community and architects planners etcetera all said don’t do that just keep your Urban Service Planning Area equivalent to your area of impact boundary and that’s what we end up doing. Probably a couple of key differences as you can see we had some commercial notes in our 93 plan that were mainly designated sort of a diagonal one to two mile separations at the arterial intersection and the plan that we adopted shows these neighborhood centers at the half mile locations. We have I think there were 14 – 12 neighborhood centers on our adopted plan. There was a little bit more commercial property that is designated on this one. We also in the 93 plan had a - agricultural rural was an actual designation, this green. And that was removed entirely so we no longer have a rural residential within the area of city impact. I’m not sure exactly what the logic was in 93 but I think it was probably just the honoring of the large lots (inaudible) that are out there and keeping it rural. So in terms of land use designations that was changed we had it two more mixed use areas. This 93 plan just had one that was called the mixed plan development and we changed it to have three different mixed use areas regional, community, and neighborhood. Those are basically just a higher (inaudible) of how much non residential you can have in each of these. So the regional is unlimited square footage of non residential uses. We got on up here on Chinden and then around our future Ten Mile Interchange area is a regional and then our Eagle Road corridor has two big regional areas. So that is basically what we anticipate to see those three or four areas. That’s right there is another one down here on Amity and Highway 69. So those four areas are sort of so called big box areas where you could see you know just (inaudible) large real intensive vehicular traffic, employment centers and things like that. And then the other two mixed use areas, community and neighborhood are more less scattered around the 44 mile – about 44 square miles in our area of impact. So they are sort of scattered around there. The neighborhood also up to 100,000 square feet of non residential and the community lets you go up to around 200,000 square feet. We did also adopt a collector plan that is basically kind of one of those encouragement policies that future development. Well mainly within the north Meridian area encouraging the half mile through collectors throughout all of our sections. Speaking of the north Meridian area the North Meridian Area Plan that you probably heard a lot about is not been indicated in this map that is a separate process that we are going through right now. Our Planning and Zoning Commission has a hearing this Thursday actually and will be talking more about that. Should that go through the process and get to City Council and then of course you would probably be back to ask for another change another adoption. I don’t know if there is any other real big differences to point out. The school – we basically just felt like the growth had just gotten to a point where we needed a little bit more detail future land use map and that was kind of the key (inaudible). So many of the policies are like a lot of Comp Plans that you see and (inaudible) incorporated the 14 states required subject areas. There just organized a little bit Meridian City Council Special Joint Meeting Workshop with Ada County Commissioners May 13, 2003 Page 4 of 18 differently in our text then our 93 plan was but there are basically there. So I think that’s really all for the key highlights. De Weerd: Brad you may want to talk to about how we’ve changed some of these around the railroad corridor to have a higher density - or our mixed uses some of the goals on incorporating more of a mixed use into our comp plan. Hawkins-Clark: Yeah the – I guess that kind of points to the issue to of a multi use pathway system which also was absent on this plan with the exception of the couple of the South Slough, the Five Mile, the railroad corridor. I guess the Nine Mile did have one but we’ve expanded through our Parks Department process to the number of mixed use pathways which would probably be like a ten foot wide asphalt that would allow for different types of uses on it. All of them follow natural drains. None of them follow canals of laterals with the exception of this large loop that more less it connects various regional parks and as well as neighborhood centers and that doesn’t really follow any existing waterways at all. But as far as the railroad corridor that Tammy mentioned the two – what we actually show three transit hubs right now at Ten Mile and then the railroad tracks at Meridian Road and then Eagle Road. We have adopted some text polices that basically give the staff the ability to get the developer to come in and there at one of those intersections of railroad or three transit hubs that we could say we do anticipate wanting to preserve some land here for a possible a Park and Ride lot. To incur some thinking and have them contact COMPASS and there would be more discussions of where we are at. Now obviously if we go in the bus way concept first or recognize that some kind of rapid transit is a long way out. But you know once the land is built its gone forever. So with that in mind we did put some higher density residential along that corridor as well as a few mixed uses. We did expand out old town by several hundred lots to reflect our historic Meridian plat that largely influences how our conditional use process works but for the most part its just recognizing that. De Weerd: Anna. This is our new Planning and Zoning Director. Powell: I just wanted to add a couple thoughts on the text that they tend to focus on the map and having been on the front side trying to apply in 1993 plan. It was very vague as far as and this is typical of a lot of (inaudible) of various cities that (inaudible) they don’t think about the county. What the county needs (inaudible) and I think that this plan has done a really good job of setting aside specific guidelines on how they would like the county to look at these projects from the (inaudible). I thought that was the important (inaudible) they are much clearer and they are all grouped together and (inaudible). Past couple weeks (inaudible). Nilsson: (Inaudible) the vounty staff reviews onset (inaudible). Our review is more getting to the plan making sure we are on the same page (inaudible). Meridian City Council Special Joint Meeting Workshop with Ada County Commissioners May 13, 2003 Page 5 of 18 (inaudible) not sure what we mean by (inaudible). Making corrections where they (inaudible). I’ve read those notes (inaudible). De Weerd: Are there any comments or questions for Brad? Yzaguirre: I have a couple. When you look at I guess you are calling them your mixed use neighborhood zones you spoke to the regional would be where the (inaudible) boxes would be located. How do you define the other two, what is the difference between the community and the neighborhood? What would be the biggest sized commercial building and what would be the mix of it do you have a pre set mix that would go into those other two areas, the community and the neighborhood mix use (inaudible). Does that question make sense? Hawkins-Clark: Yeah sure – Peavey-Derr: Would you repeat it please? Yzaguirre: I don’t think I could. I was wondering what I was saying as I said it. Hawkins-Clark: We haven’t got to the level of specificity of going to one of these and saying this is the street layout and this is the circulation plan these are the access points we envisioned. We actually have that has an action goal for the plan is to go ahead (inaudible) project if you will. Our new Director (inaudible). But probably the easiest way would say that your grocery store that is of an Albertson’s and I think their prototype is a 70,000 to 80,000 square feet. In terms of one building I think we would envision no more then that size in one of those and then of course specific uses like a library branch or a post office branch. You know an open plaza of some sort and then you know some other maybe fairly sizable (inaudible) that would be the community and then the smallest one is envisioned to be more your day to day services, like you’ll find on Eagle Road like (inaudible) insurance, yogurt shops and things like that so it limits he maximum square footage if not residential so we do envision residential being in all of these areas. It actually sets a target of eight dwelling units to the acre for a developer if they come in one of these centers areas, so we really jacked up the density in those particular areas. Yzaguirre: What would you call high density? High density in Meridian is a little different then high density in Eagle. Hawkins-Clark: Yeah its – Yzaguirre: Apartments and (inaudible). De Weerd: (Inaudible). Meridian City Council Special Joint Meeting Workshop with Ada County Commissioners May 13, 2003 Page 6 of 18 Peavey-Derr: Madam president. I noticed that on the old 1993 you have what I gather to be mixed (inaudible) these areas on all four corners and on this one which I think is the same location, is it not. You do not have a commercial center the same. Can you tell me what happened there or why that’s (inaudible). Hawkins-Clark: Sure the – we brought in an economic consultant from (inaudible) when we were initially kind of toying with the idea of these centers and we kind of begged, borrowed, and stealed from Merced California their Comprehensive Plan that they have had in place for several years has a similar kind of half mile design. Ed and this is sort of just his initial look at how much retail can be supported by how many people and what he found has a ball park you know about 40 to 50,000 square feet of retail that doesn’t include office could be supported by at our densities about two square miles. So then we sort of said okay where should those go and if you allow the commercial to go all the way up and down Ten Mile and then every single arterial intersection how does that relate to congestion and movement of traffic and that’s the main goal of arterial is to move traffic through town. So we kind of took the approach that the half mile might allow more people without getting in their cars to get to some services from within the section without being forced to go out to the (inaudible) corners. Now I say all that with the copy of the North Meridian Plan that is proposing to kind of do the same approach again. Could it work? Sure. If you allow people to get to these centers from inside the section so they’re not forced to go out on to McMillan or out on Ten Mile to get to the little corner store or Albertson’s or whatever. So that is a little bit of a thing that is hanging out with this North Meridian Plan but this particular red spot was annexed has part of Bridgetower Crossing Subdivision so we need to show that (inaudible). De Weerd: It was denied. Nary: Just so you Commissioners know we heard a tremendous amount of testimony about that neighborhood center concept. It seems like two years of testimony (inaudible). You know one of the things that I think you do fine and I think what we tried to convince folks in the discussion was that you know look at the – I think is the simplest example in Meridian is try to get out of Eagle and Fairview on to the highway in either direction you want to go to try to get out of WalMart and the access points can be done in a way that allows the traffic to flow along easier then (inaudible). So that was kind of a really just the thing that I think people eventually came to and said lets try this and we’ll see what its like but we didn’t a lot about it but don’t we have one that’s already proposed like this. Isn’t Heritage Commons (inaudible)? So we have some that are at least (inaudible) in trying this (inaudible) its different. I think most peoples initial reaction was the corner just works better. That’s just where you think everything (inaudible) I think there is just opportunities for something different. Peavey-Derr: Madam President, Mr. Nary. What I was worried more so about because I’ve been kind of out of the loop on this section of town. Is that there Meridian City Council Special Joint Meeting Workshop with Ada County Commissioners May 13, 2003 Page 7 of 18 had already been a project as I was aware they were going off of that old one that these corners were eyeballed for future growth and they had a problem but you can’t and you don’t. De Weerd: Where things have already been annexed and zoned that is already reflected on our Comprehensive Plan. Hawkins-Clark: One trick is our planned development process does allow 20 percent up to 20 percent of some of these land to be used for something other then what is shown. So even if they come in and that was Lochsa Falls Subdivision that we have been built right now between Ten Mile and Linder up in here and it was 375 acres and they could do up to 20 percent of that so you are talking a fairly sizable amount of non residential as long as they got through our process of the Planning and Zoning Commission etcetera and we haven’t been (inaudible) if they wanted to come in and say that we want a new office right here even though it shows residential on this plat. We will say they were approved through a public hearing process yes it is different then what the comp plan shows but it is done has a planned development so that – certainly you’ll see those (inaudible) kind of pop up here and there. De Weerd: And some of that was an anticipation of employment centers to allow flexibility for the market to help create maybe even job opportunities. Nary: Well we did get a whole lot of (inaudible) as well from BCA and the Realtors Association and private development and the planning all but try to formulate the language that’s in the plan of how to address those types of things so that we have that connectivity and trying to keep that type of concept going. Peavey-Derr: Madam President. I raised the language just simply – I know your not there yet Madam President but my concern is the annexation issue. I suspect that that annexation issue will be an issue of future Commissioner and I just say that not knowing but just bringing to your attention and putting it out on the table. De Weerd: Can you clarify that a little bit. Peavey-Derr: Not really. I know that had been – De Weerd: In terms of the annexation issue, that were asking people to annex or? Peavey-Derr: I think that as you know that was before the legislature is – and I think our future Commissioner has definite opinions on that. So I just measure it for whatever its worth just to give you a heads up. Yzaguirre: I’m thinking it must be forced annexation. Meridian City Council Special Joint Meeting Workshop with Ada County Commissioners May 13, 2003 Page 8 of 18 Bird: We’ve never forced annexation. Just when we get this stuff out there they sign an agreement to that stuff and Mr. Nichols has researched that quite heavily. Nichols: I think probably the problematic of the Commissioners is the enclaves and the (inaudible) and over time and at some point those have to be addressed. And those do become very problematic. The thing that we have done on the residential or any extension to city services or at least (inaudible) we tried to require as much notice as possible. We’ve asked the developers post a sign at the entry of the subdivision that says these lots are subject to annexation (inaudible) or something like that. We’ve asked they put it on the face of the deed if (inaudible) plat that requires that (inaudible). We’ve asked that it be put in the covenants to try to at least eliminate the argument that (inaudible). We’ve also required written consent to annex, which it gets recorded as a condition providing the services so that there is a contract with what the city (inaudible). But we haven’t done any forced annexations in a long time (inaudible) look at those. As you get into issues of who (inaudible). Some of those different things but even that can be done better rather then worse things that (inaudible) discussed in the legislature (inaudible) last year (inaudible). You can find that out how to do (inaudible). Peavey-Derr: Well I certainly don’t want to create a problem that – Bird: You got a very good point. De Weerd: We are aware of that and typically in – I guess we asked for the partnership with the county on that as well. Because our desire is to grow from the inside out – Peavey-Derr: Sure. De Weerd: -- and to not create those potential problems down the road. We have had a couple. Vienna Woods is one of them and that was to protect our impact area and maybe stop Boise from going westward past us and so that was incident. And Edinburgh is probably another one. I think at this point those are the only two that we have and so the only place where our concern lies is to have urban density subdivisions that aren’t contiguous that are approved by the county that we can’t serve. Our concern is the island it creates in the middle of our city and that’s in your hands so. We hope to work closely between our staffs and our development community to stop that from happening. And I think that should help put to ease at least some of the issues that the new commissioner might have. Peavey-Derr: Okay good enough. De Weerd: Is there any further comments or questions on that item? Meridian City Council Special Joint Meeting Workshop with Ada County Commissioners May 13, 2003 Page 9 of 18 Item 4. Request by the City of Meridian for Ada County’s Adoption of Meridian’s Urban Services Policies Comprehensive Plan Amendment (Resolution Number 03-401): De Weerd: Okay well then we can go ahead and move on to item number four which is request by the City of Meridian for Ada County’s adoption of Meridian’s Urban Services Policies Comprehensive Plan amendment which is resolution number 03-401. Brad would you like to introduce that? Hawkins-Clark: Yeah. Was it two months ago, or less then that. The Council adopted a resolution that amended the plan that we just talked about. Mainly its six main items that if I’m not mistaken. (Inaudible) items. Basically what we were trying to accomplish with this amendment was to deal with the way we do the applications that are in there, Meridian’s area of impact. That either they come to us to ask for services or we get the referral applications from Ada County that we need comment on those. The way we look to give us guidance to give a response back on those kind of applications and the adopted text of the 2002 plan really didn’t give too much guidance there so we went through frankly borrowed some of this from the Boise City Area of Impact Agreement that Ada County has with them. Did they all get a copy (inaudible) our resolution and we can certainly get it to you but I think probably the main two items you would be interested in is we are saying that any developer that is in our Urban Service Planning Area must be connected (inaudible) to the City of Meridian services or constructed in conformance with our master plan. Obviously that‘s going to vary on a case by case basis where you know for maybe some reason or another our Public Works folks say you know a septic is the only thing that would work but it’s pretty clear cut that any development outside the city limits will only be considered if the developer agrees to develop a water and sewer and really all systems in conformance with our master facilities plan. That doesn’t necessarily deal with the subdivision code but it is in with our master facilities plan. And then through what Mr. Nichols mentioned about the (inaudible) consent to annex. They’re asking that any development in our area of impact that is not contiguous to that that’s going to be a condition that the City of Meridian asks to be placed on those projects. We also have in this amendment that Ada County will issue no building permit for any development (inaudible) until the applicant provides documentation that park impact fees required by the City of Meridian have been paid. Now that’s going to – I’m sure Patricia can speak to that better then myself but that’s going to require still an agreement to be entered into before we can place that on there because we wanted the Comp Plan to have a policy to kind of set the guide in the frame of this is the direction you want to go. So sewer and master plan and park impact fees consent to annexation and see what else – and developer initiated expansions are only going to be for properties that are adjacent to existing or previously approved projects. So in other words if a developer comes in with a project that that may not be contiguous today but that there is an approved project that the City of Meridian has already agreed to Meridian City Council Special Joint Meeting Workshop with Ada County Commissioners May 13, 2003 Page 10 of 18 (inaudible) sewer and water services to - that’s those are the projects that would possibly be eligible to still get our recommendation of approval. Peavey-Derr: Madam President. De Weerd: Commissioner Peavey-Derr. Peavey-Derr: Can you tell me (inaudible) time wise? How does that work? (Inaudible) way up there on the board and I’m contiguous to a project how many years, if I went ahead and put in a septic system and then eventually would you say folks say oh 15 years or so from now I have to move out, is it similar to Boise in that respect? Hawkins-Clark: Well no not really. Peavey-Derr: You are going to make them hook up. Hawkins-Clark: Yep. Peavey-Derr: Okay all right. Hawkins-Clark: Make them hook up. Bird: Madam President. De Weerd: Mr. Bird. Bird: Follow up to Commissioner Peavey-Derr. Are you guys still approving septic systems in the county? Peavey-Derr: Some. Bird: Are they individual lots? Nilsson: Madam President and Councilman Bird. No just being eligible for anything other then the RUT, which is a transition zone. Then you up them to the R-1 one acre (inaudible). Bird: That’s what I thought. You know those septic systems are just (inaudible) down the road here. Nilsson: (Inaudible). Peavey-Derr: But on the other hand. Some of those systems I mean are without (inaudible) 300 feet and they are functioning just fine and they go back in and redo them in some cases. Meridian City Council Special Joint Meeting Workshop with Ada County Commissioners May 13, 2003 Page 11 of 18 Yzaguirre: In that southwest Ada County area we got some major issues from the 70’s when times were tough, density was high, individual wells and septics on quarter acre lots that are now beginning to fail. So we are very aware of what not to do. De Weerd: Well and we are hoping that the comp plan and some of the policies and some of the language we are using to provide useful tools for planning and approval and allowing some workable space to find a solution that works for everyone without an inherent problem certain years down the road. And again our preference is growing inside out. McCandless: Madam President. De Weerd: Councilman McCandless. McCandless: Isn’t the DEQ cutting down on septic tank installations? Yzaguirre: I’ll defer to staff I don’t know. Nilsson: (Inaudible) I’m not sure what their status is today. Peavey-Derr: Mr. Nichols, are you comfortable that you are not taking (inaudible) the irrevocable consent to annexation? Nichols: Madam Commissioner. We recognize that ultimately that you know the separation of powers says that (inaudible) how you pronounce it ultimately says you’ve got the final say. I think what we are saying is if we are going to provide those services then we want irrevocable consent to annex if we provide the services and (inaudible) I don’t believe it isn’t because its in because I don’t think we have responsibilities or a mandated duty to provide those services to someone else. (Inaudible) so I think and actually if we didn’t have the fight to annexation (inaudible) in the legislature (inaudible). Peavey-Derr: Yeah. Nichols: Because what we find is we are real reluctant to agree to anything outside the city limits because we don’t want to have (inaudible). We don’t want to get into those kinds of issues even though that they had covenants that say they annexed in the future (inaudible) consent to annex and that’s why we try to make the notice part of it more important. So I don’t think it’s a taking from the standpoint that if we’re providing services that’s a requirement of the city. Peavey-Derr: It was more a question of curiosity but I’m glad you answered. Thank you. Meridian City Council Special Joint Meeting Workshop with Ada County Commissioners May 13, 2003 Page 12 of 18 De Weerd: Memories kind of tend to delete over time and whether it’s written on your plat. I mean no matter how many places we can note it our preference of course is to avoid it totally and so we try to build in flexibility so that your not so black and white you don’t allow some things to happen but you also want policies that can back up philosophies and avoid problems like we’ve seen happen. Patricia. Nilsson: Just to let you know on that particular issue (Inaudible) to see if we need to make that condition as part of (inaudible). De Weerd: Mr. Nichols. Nichols: I just wanted to say that I think one of the issues too is that, it’s nice - could be wrong but we think that the county’s tax base is (inaudible). So to the extent that we could encourage annexation and (inaudible) services (inaudible). The benefits that (inaudible) so to the extent that you can encourage annexation (inaudible) applicable. Peavey-Derr: Madam President. De Weerd: Commissioner. Peavey-Derr: Don’t get me wrong I’m for planned growth. I’m just real curious on how you are going to get there. De Weerd: With your help. Commissioner Yzaguirre. Yzaguirre: I guess I have a concern with the way Boise handles some of their situations particularly to the southwest and the way they are expanding their sewer. Since I’ve been downtown the last four or five months. We’ve had our land use hearings on the second and the fourth Tuesday and any sewer expansion areas or extensions Commissioners of Boise extends them we hear it. So the County Commissioners take the heat for their sewer extensions that are going into the impact area. In some cases its kind of controversial but I personally where I think Boise is making the mistake is they’re extending that service outside their city limits. And I think that that’s the hammer, I mean as you annex and expand and provide infrastructure is when you should be bringing those parcels under your wing but – De Weerd: And that’s how we do it. Yzaguirre: But to got out and do that I think is a mistake personally. I presume that’s what you were doing but I wanted to share it – Meridian City Council Special Joint Meeting Workshop with Ada County Commissioners May 13, 2003 Page 13 of 18 Bird: We are planning ahead, we are getting our infrastructure out there. It’s like any infrastructure, which Commissioner Peavey-Derr knows quite well from ACHD that you can’t stay up with infrastructure. Peavey-Derr: That’s right. Bird: And by our getting our sewer and water, sewer in particular out there we can kind of control the growth. I’m not for one to just going out and putting sewer in to be putting sewer in. I think that these people get demanding on you and they get ready to go when they want to go and it’s a definite benefit to have the stuff out there you can get in on the ground floor. Without coming back and have to have easements and buy right of ways and stuff like that so – Yzaguirre: We try to do both kinds but we want to stay (inaudible). De Weerd: And I think our South Slough that we just ran under Eagle to the east side of Eagle Road is a prime example. Is we had somebody that wanted to hook on to it, well they have to find an annexation route. So we will bring the sewer out there but they still have to annex in to have the service and then their responsible for finding that annexation route so we have a somewhat different philosophy then what you are seeing in Boise. Is we like to be contiguous and in order to do that we want them to have city services and it is one way that we feel we have some control with the growth. Peavey-Derr: May I ask Madam President? Where are your services now? Can you show me on that map approximately? I caught you with your mouth full sorry. Hawkins-Clark: Yeah. Well we are unable at this point to service anything between Black Cat and McDermott. This whole stretch is designed to be on a trunk line that is in the future that has not been budgeted for and no developers have come forth to participate in. Peavey-Derr: Okay. Hawkins-Clark: So this whole section is not. Other areas of the north Meridian, the city invested to build this trunk all the way to basically it would service these three miles between Ustick and McMillan. So that all is now serviceable to what we call the North Slough trunk is right now being extended from Ten Mile to McMillan and Chinden over to Linder Road as part a of Havasu and at this point that’s as far because that is a developer initiated expansion. So these three sections kind of up in our northwest that are on the North Slough at this point are not serviceable. (End of side one) Meridian City Council Special Joint Meeting Workshop with Ada County Commissioners May 13, 2003 Page 14 of 18 Hawkins-Clark: -- design of Black Cat Trunk. Our Wastewater Treatment Plant is here just north of Ustick next to Ten Mile. And that design and our engineers can tell you about that but that is intended to come down and kind of provide services through this area north of the I-84. South of I-84 at this point no developers have stood up and said we will take it more underneath. So through our big areas that are not serviceable would be that stretch along the west boundary, some of this northeast stuff. Yeah, on the very south end of – I’m not sure Brad can you point to which on the south end is serviceable and which isn’t. Watson: (Inaudible). Peavey-Derr: That’s helpful. Because when we see these things we can picture (inaudible). De Weerd: Good question. Okay if there’s no further questions we’ll go ahead and – Patricia. Nilsson: You probably (inaudible) and adopting the Comp Plan policy (inaudible). Nichols: If I may Madam President. We’ve been working, we’ve had to amend, we had a draft amendment to park impact fee ordinance to comply with the 2002 legislative (inaudible). We were without a Parks Director for a period of time, which has delayed some of that. We got the plan which is getting closer to final adoption (inaudible). So we know all those pieces have (inaudible) and the county has to adopt it (inaudible) as we understand but we have to have our (inaudible) approved before we bring that to you. Peavey-Derr: And the time frame on that? Nichols: I’m not sure what the current time frame is. I know when I last talked to the Parks Director one of the things that he was in the process was finalizing the capital improvement plan which has to finalize first before we can accept fees (inaudible). Peavey-Derr: All right that is good. Item 5. Request by the City of Meridian for an Addition to the Applicable Plan Policies section of Area of Impact Ordinance / Agreement: De Weerd: Item number five request from the City of Meridian for addition to the applicable plan policy section of area of impact ordinance agreements. Brad. Did you just take a bite, I think I (inaudible). Hawkins-Clark: Well I think this one is fairly straight forward. I mean what we are looking for here is basically an added clause to our area of city impact Meridian City Council Special Joint Meeting Workshop with Ada County Commissioners May 13, 2003 Page 15 of 18 agreement that says the City of Meridian receives an application from Ada County and that application is on a piece of ground that is contiguous to the City of Meridian that essentially we are asking the county to say this property should request annexation. Because it’s contiguous to the city limits rather then going in and – (inaudible) talk about a little bit, I think we’ve only had maybe two or three of these over the last five years. The majority of these requests are not contiguous to the city limits. We happen to be doing one right now that is on Franklin Road across from – excuse me the Meridian School District is constructing a bus facility for a church and you know they are in the county but they are next to a city zone land. So and we’ve noted as I put in my letter for planned developments, conditional use permits, subdivision, and rezones that are eligible for annexation that they would request annexation prior to Ada County processing any of those applications. That would be a new clause that asking to throwing out on the table. Nilsson: (Inaudible). De Weerd: And we appreciate how closely your staff works with ours on many of these. They don’t happen often but its great that the dialog exists and that its able to happen at that level too. Peavey-Derr: I agree. Thank you. Item 6. Discussion of the Referral Area section of Area of Impact Ordinance / Agreement: De Weerd: Item six is a discussion of the referral area section of area of impact ordinance agreement. Our staff has been working with the City of Boise staff to look at our area of agreements and who can best sewer and water them or service them. Brad Watson did you want to introduce this one? Watson: It’s been awhile since I’ve spoken with Boise City but I don’t know if I could (inaudible). There is seven or eight different places where we agree with the sewer guys agree to push some into theirs in return give some back to us. This little slice right here and this area. There is a couple (inaudible). There was an issue about this one after (inaudible). Council did not agree with (inaudible). De Weerd: So apparently really if the – topography you can’t just draw a straight line down and – Peavey-Derr: Right. De Weerd: And there is some landowners whose pieces have been split and you have subdivisions that one might be in Boise and one in Meridian and its just to kind of clean up that line and I think once this happens those lines will be pretty Meridian City Council Special Joint Meeting Workshop with Ada County Commissioners May 13, 2003 Page 16 of 18 drawn and set in stone as far as who can sewer what and in anticipation for the adjustments that need to be made. Peavey-Derr: Madam President. I go back to the days of when the impact fee line was on the west side of Eagle Road by one quarter mile which split property – well you don’t need to be. Bird: It was over on Cloverdale. Peavey-Derr: Oh was it Cloverdale. Anyway the controversy of half a farm of being in one and I understand exactly what you are talking about. Nary: There’s a follow up to that too Madam President and Commissioners. I think between (inaudible) one of the attorneys from the city attorney’s office that works for me as well as there will be some other issues around Eagle too, the same issues with Boise. The same thing as where it can be sewered and where is the proper place to have that. I think there won’t be (inaudible) I’m sure we will getting that. I’m sure (inaudible) so we can get that all done. I think part of the issue has come up as we’ve seen over the last year and a half that we’ve had property (inaudible) process is a little fuzzy in the state code. It doesn’t’ give a lot of clarity of how do we just get this done without it taking a year and a half. We did have one property owner up there at Bristol Heights and it took about over a year for a really really small piece of property so I think all the difference (inaudible) is try and get that process done better so that when it finally gets to you folks all the pieces are done so that it doesn’t end up being a situation where we are waiting for one hearing after an another after another so it will make it all a little bit cleaner all the way around. Peavey-Derr: Very good. De Weerd: Any questions or comments? Staff anything further you would like add. Powell: (inaudible). Hawkins-Clark: I think really the intent of that is that we do have set up down from Amity right now our area of impact goes a quarter mile south of Amity but the referral area is said to go another mile and a half to Columbia. So that any applications that Ada County receives in that area we also get those even though it’s not in our area of impact and we also have a referral area to the southwest that is not quite (inaudible). But yeah I guess we were just wondering do any other jurisdictions in Ada County have those areas and we think that we should keep that in place? Nilsson: Just a little history on that. If you look at the (inaudible) those represent the areas that were within the planning area of that plan. (Inaudible) so the city Meridian City Council Special Joint Meeting Workshop with Ada County Commissioners May 13, 2003 Page 17 of 18 had (inaudible) that was going on there. Now we have a different planning area and as far as staffs concerns (inaudible) what’s going on. (Inaudible) there is some other geographic area. (Inaudible). Just think about that I guess (inaudible) on the map and (inaudible). (Inaudible) in Star and I (inaudible) and the Council bailed us out and said no we did get those to the County and (inaudible) so there’s other areas that we need to think about (inaudible). De Weerd: And I appreciate that and I think it underscores and I know Commissioner Peavey-Derr has talked about a county wide plan and it just makes sense because whatever happens surrounding us and Meridian in particular we need to be more sensitive to a lot of that because we are surrounded by Eagle to the north and Boise to the east and Nampa to the west and Kuna to the south and so we do have to care what happens in those areas not just buffering it but how we start growing together and maintaining our identities so I appreciate those referral areas and I think it gives our staff an opportunity too to see how that transition area is working and if its really (inaudible) what we are doing on our end too. Well we sure appreciate you taking time to come over here and learn more about our Comp Plans – Peavey-Derr: Thank you. This has been very helpful. Madam President and Patricia. Now the next step is for you to review this plan and make comments. Nilsson: If you want to make a motion to direct staff to work on preparing a draft ordinance if you think (inaudible). Yzaguirre: Madam Chairman. I would move – how would I do the motion again. Nilsson: Direct staff (inaudible). Yzaguirre: I would move that we direct staff to prepare amendment to the area of city’s impact ordinance. Peavey-Derr: Is that all. Second. Its been moved and seconded is there any discussion? Hearing no discussion all those in favor say aye. All ayes motion carries. All right very good. Your turn. De Weerd: Again we appreciate you coming and moving us along in a long process but we have an award winning plan in front of you. Our staff did a great deal of work and appreciate the cooperation of your staff too. I do believe I saw their face on occasion. Peavey-Derr: Thank you for dinner. De Weerd: I would entertain a motion to adjourn. Nary: I would move that we adjourn this special workshop. Meridian City Council Special Joint Meeting Workshop with Ada County Commissioners May 13, 2003 Page 18 of 18 Bird: Second. De Weerd: All those in favor say aye. Adjournment at 7:00 p.m. Peavey-Derr: Thank you. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 7:00 P.M. (TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) APPROVED: / / ROBERT D. CORRIE, MAYOR DATE APPROVED ATTESTED: WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., CITY CLERK