HomeMy WebLinkAbout2003 05-13
Meridian City Council Meeting May 13, 2003
The Regular Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:10 P.M., on
Tuesday, May 13, 2003, by President Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: William Nary, Tammy de Weerd, Cherie McCandless, and Keith
Bird.
Members Absent: Mayor Robert Corrie.
Others Present: William Nichols, Brad Hawkins-Clark, Brad Watson, Anna Powell,
Doug Strong, Dean Willis, and Will Berg
Item 1. Roll call Attendance:
__X Tammy de Weerd _ X__ Bill Nary
__X Cherie McCandless __X Keith Bird
______ Mayor Robert Corrie
De Weerd: Okay. I will go ahead and call this meeting to order. It's 10 after 7:00. I'd
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like to open the City Council Regular Meeting of Tuesday, May 13, and ask Mr. Berg to
have roll call attendance.
Item 2. Adoption of the Agenda:
De Weerd: Thank you Item Number 2, adoption of the agenda.
Bird: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would move we adopt the agenda as published.
Nary: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to adopt the agenda. All those in
favor say? All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Item 3. Consent Agenda:
A. March 11, 2003
Approve minutes of Pre-Council Meeting:
B. May 6, 2003
Approve minutes of Pre-Council Meeting:
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May 13, 2003
Page 2 of 62
C. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: MI 03-
005
Request for amendment to the Development Agreement for
Cherry Lane
the remnant 2.88 acres zoned office-light for the
Project
by Oakwood Enterprises – east of North Ten Mile Road on
West Cherry Lane:
D. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: MI 03-
004 Boise
Request to amend conditions of annexation for
Podiatry Building
by Marshall Ogden – 1065 Fairview Avenue:
E. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: AZ 03-
003
Request for annexation and zoning of 14.31 acres from RUT
Timberfalls Subdivision
to R-8 zones for proposed by Dan Wood
– south of East Ustick Road and west of North Locust Grove Road:
F. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: PP 03-
002
Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 50 building lots and 6
other lots on 14.31 acres in a proposed R-8 zone for proposed
Timberfalls Subdivision
by Dan Wood – south of East Ustick
Road and west of North Locust Grove Road:
G. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: VAR
03-011
Request for a Variance to Section 12-4-5 of the Meridian
Subdivision Ordinance requiring blocks to be not less than 400 feet
Timberfalls Subdivision
and not more than 1,000 feet in length for
by Dan Wood – south of East Ustick Road and west of North
Locust Grove Road:
H. Second Addendum to Development Agreement RZ 00-008 / MI
03-005
Request for amendment to the Development Agreement
Cherry Lane
for the remnant 2.88 acres zoned office-light for the
Project
by Oakwood Enterprises – east of North Ten Mile Road on
West Cherry Lane:
I. Development Agreement: AZ 02-033
Request for annexation
and zoning of 104.77 acres from RUT to R-8 PD zones for
Parkstone Subdivision
proposed by Hillview Development, Corp.
– west of North Eagle Road and north of East Ustick Road:
De Weerd: Item Number 3. Consent Agenda.
Bird: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
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May 13, 2003
Page 3 of 62
Bird: I move that we approve the Consent Agenda as published and for the President to
sign and the Clerk to attest on all proper papers.
Nary: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve the Consent Agenda. Mr.
Berg.
Roll call: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; de Weerd, aye; Bird, aye.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Item 4. Department Reports:
1. Public Works Department:
A. Request for Sewer and Water Latecomers Agreements
for Lochsa Falls Subdivision by Farwest, LLC:
De Weerd: Item Number 4, Department Reports. Public Works Department.
Watson: Thank you, Madam President, Council Members. This item is simply a
request from the Lochsa Falls developer to direct staff to implement -- or develop a
Latecomer Agreement for water and sewer associated with that subdivision. They have
installed or are installing approximately 10,000 feet of water and 10,000 feet of sewer
line to serve that subdivision that will ultimately serve other subdivisions. We can't
develop the actual agreement yet until all the final costs are in, but this is a bit of a
formality, just to direct Public Works to prepare one once those costs are in and that's
all I have, unless there are any other questions.
De Weerd: Okay. Council? Mr. Watson, you don't need a motion, do you? We can
just ask you to start preparing -- preparing the work to do that? Do we need one?
Okay. Oh, Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Madam President, I would recommend that you have a motion, just so that the
record is clear and, then, the agreement, of course, will come back to you for approval.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Thank you for putting that on public record, unlike our
City Clerk.
Bird: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
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May 13, 2003
Page 4 of 62
Bird: I would move that we approve the request for sewer and water Latecomer
Agreement with Lochsa Falls Subdivision by Farwest, LLC, with our staff and to prepare
Latecomers Agreement to be brought back for approval.
McCandless: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded. All those in favor say aye. All ayes.
Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Item 5. (Items Moved from Consent Agenda):
De Weerd: Are there any further department reports? No. Okay. There were no items
moved from the Consent Agenda.
Item 6. Ordinance No. : AZ 02-033
Request for
annexation and zoning of 104.77 acres from RUT to R-8 PD zones for
Parkstone Subdivision
proposed by Hillview Development, Corp. – west
of North Eagle Road and north of East Ustick Road:
De Weerd: So, we will go ahead to Item 6, Ordinance Number 03-1018, request for
annexation and zoning of 104.77 acres from RUT to R-8 PD zones for the proposed
Parkstone Subdivision by Hillview Development Corporation and I will ask the City Clerk
to read the Ordinance by Title only.
Berg: Thank you, Madam President, Members of the Council. Ordinance Number 03-
1018 an Ordinance finding that Tom E. Davis and Sue C. Davis, husband and wife, the
owners of certain real property generally located west of North Eagle Road and north of
East Ustick Road, Meridian, to be known as Parkstone Subdivision and which lies
contiguous or adjacent to the city limits of City of Meridian, County of Ada, State of
Idaho, have made a request for annexation in writing to the Council and that said land
be annexed to the City of Meridian and zoning designated Medium Density Residential
District (R-8) and declaring that said land, by proper legal description described below,
be a part of the City of Meridian, County of Ada, State of Idaho, repealing all
ordinances, resolutions, orders, or parts thereof, in conflict herewith, and directing the
city engineer to said add property to the official maps of the City of Meridian, Idaho, and
directing the clerk of the City of Meridian to file a certified copy of the ordinance and
map of the areas to be annexed to the Ada county recorder, auditor, treasurer, and
assessor and the State Tax Commission of the State of Idaho, pursuant to Idaho Code
Section 50-223 and Section 63-2215.
De Weerd: Thank you. You have heard the reading of the title of Ordinance 03-1018.
Is there anyone in the audience who would like it read in full? Seeing none, I would
entertain a motion.
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McCandless: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mrs. McCandless.
McCandless: I move that we approve Ordinance 03-1018, request for annexation and
zoning of 104.77 acres from RUT to R-8 PD zones for proposed Parkstone Subdivision,
west of North Eagle Road and north of East Ustick Road, with the suspension of rules.
Nary: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to pass Ordinance 03-1018 with
suspension of rules. All those -- oh, Mr. Clerk, will you, please, call roll.
Roll call: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; de Weerd, aye; Bird, aye.
De Weerd: Thank you. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Item 7. Continued Public Hearing from April 15, 2003: Dust Abatement
Ordinance:
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De Weerd: Item Number 7, Continued Public Hearing from April 15 on the Dust
Abatement Ordinance. Brad.
Hawkins-Clark: Thank you, Madam President, Members of the Council. This item was
continued several different times now. A month ago staff had received the information
from the Ada County Association of Realtors, the Building Contractors Association, and
the Ada County General Contractors Association. I believe you should have in your
packets a letter and this was, again, from your April 15, 2003, meeting. The packets
included a memo from staff, David McKinnon, a letter from June Ramsdell of
Community Planning Association, a letter from Bill Nichols, and a letter from the
Associated General Contractors. There have been, I think at this point, all of the
contacts made regarding this new ordinance that the city staff drafted. I think all of
those contacts that the Council requested that we make have been made and we have
received those letters that I just referred to now into the public record. To date I don't
believe that a summary has been given, other than that there was a Pre-Council
Meeting held where I think a general overview of the Air Quality Enhancement
Ordinance was given. It's been a few months. The ordinance really is coming out of a
couple of different sources, but one of those was in 1999 there was a Treasure Valley
wide air quality public opinion survey, which found that 74 percent of Ada County
respondents answered yes to the question that should local governments take
additional measures to improve air quality. As you know, Community Planning
Association does have committed staff that are technical specialists in the area of air
quality and June Ramsdell is one of those who submitted a letter to us and she has
done quite a bit of research and has worked with David McKinnon in our Planning Office
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on the ordinance. The ordinance that is before you has really three main components
to it. All of them are geared towards a reduction in particulate matter and, basically,
they are on-site dust suppression, track out control, and uncovered loads. Those are
the three areas that the ordinance addresses. The covered load portion of the
ordinance is probably the one that has the least amount of detail in it. It's basically
requiring that any -- that the word shall, is -- I'm sorry. That covered, which means any
durable material, such as tarps that can be placed and secured over a motor vehicle,
that section is probably the one that we are recommending as staff, since we haven't
had as much feedback from Compass on, that we not give that much discussion tonight.
The Police Department would ultimately be the enforcers of the dust -- or, I'm sorry, of
the uncovered load section. That's also probably the one that Compass, as I said, has
the least input on. The other two deal with on-site dust suppression and track out
control and the ordinance really is geared towards encouragement language. We are
requiring, basically, that when someone comes into the city Building Department to
receive a Building Permit or if they are approved for a subdivision, that they at that time
apply for a Dust Abatement Permit. Basically, what that gives the city is a contact
person, so that should three months down the road a neighbor calls up our department
and says we have a complaint to register that there is excessive dust being generated
by this construction site, et cetera, we can go to that permit, and pull it out. It has the
contact person that is responsible to make sure that the streets, essentially, are kept
clear of any track out debris, they would also be the ones to insure that sites are
watered down if they need to be. We have set standards that we think are general
enough in nature that are reasonable that anyone could interpret them. If something --
if there is dust visible on the road that's been tracked out, that needs to be abated. It
really is intended to be somewhat of a complaint driven process, frankly, because we
don't have the budget at this point in time to hire someone full time to go out and
enforce this actively. The main exceptions that are in the ordinance are agricultural
commodities, the maintenance of drainage and irrigation waterways, and landscaping
by a person at his or her place of residence and, then, any modifications to someone's
existing single-family detached house. Those are the main areas that would be
excepted from the regulations. It applies to -- as written, four main areas, construction
of buildings, construction, grading, paving, maintenance of roads and streets, clearing of
land or grading of land, stockpiling of materials. When someone comes into the city to
receive a permit for those areas, then, those would receive -- they would be required to
apply for a Dust Abatement Permit. We are also suggesting that construction of
subdivisions be added as a fifth area. I won't go through, I don't think, each of the other
-- there are a couple of other pages that kind of give some background to how it would
be enforced. Mainly, that's going to be tied into, as I said, the Public Works Department
right now and their inspectors, who are sort of the eyes and ears for construction sites
for the city. Should they be contacted or see a problem, they would be the ones to
either contact back to the office to let a person know that they need to be contacted, get
the name of the general contractor and, then, that person is, again, held responsible.
They would be called, say we received this complaint, we need you to do X, X, X, and
X. Citation ability is given in this ordinance to police officers or the code enforcement
officers should it come to that point. The input that we received from the private
industry folks is primarily that -- they appear to be in agreement with the restrictions for
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May 13, 2003
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track out control, as long as it's in compliance with the federal guidelines. They are
mainly wanting to not -- the City of Meridian not to exceed federal guidelines when it
comes to air quality control. That's sort of their bottom line statement to the city staff. I
will try to answer any questions I can on this at this point.
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Brad, in looking at the ordinance in regard to the enforcement, I guess part of the
way it's worded in here is kind of soft in the sense that it really is talking about
encouraging. They should do the best they can to deal with these types of fugitive dust
and the like and I guess my concern is that it's awfully hard from an enforcement
standpoint to enforce they should do the best they can. Also looking at the enforcement
provision, it says that the city can take corrective action that's not really very clear as to
what that exactly is. It doesn't -- it doesn't say you shall take all steps to do this, so it
doesn't have real strong language on one end and on the enforcement side I guess
what's a little concerning to me is that, you know, it doesn't say we can issue a stop
work order on a Building Permit. That's pretty clear. That tells you if you don't do
something you don't get to build the house anymore, you don't get to build whatever
you're building. It doesn't really say that. It says it's a civil penalty. Well, I don't know
how the -- you know, if currently it's going to be -- did you say police were going to be
not only enforcement for the loads, but also the enforcement for these other types of
things, police or Public Works?
Hawkins-Clark: Councilman Nary, I would envision the police would not be involved
much on the --
Nary: The Code Enforcement.
Hawkins-Clark: Right.
Nary: Okay. The penalty here is not criminal, the penalty here is civil in nature and not
really very specific as to what that is. I guess I'm not sure -- the enforcement seems a
little bit weak. It doesn't seem like you're going to be able to do very much the way it's
drafted. Is that -- I mean am I reading it wrong? The intent -- if the intent is to pass
something that's enforceable to try to abate this problem on the front end -- and I think
the education piece is a great part of it in really educating the builders. I think because
some other communities like Boise have this, I think they already are building things to
that standard and that method. I guess I'm a little concerned about the enforcement
end of it from the city's side is a little bit weak and not really going to work very well.
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Hawkins-Clark: I guess I would say that -- I mean that's certainly something we can
work on. It does say that the -- that an order could be given, if I'm hearing you right, that
maybe is not the right legal process to follow.
Nary: Well, it says the authority of the City of Meridian to issue an order pursuant to this
section as an issue to any remedy. An order issued under this section shall taken
effect, but it doesn't say exactly what does that mean and I think what's intended or
maybe what was intended is that builders know if you say we can issue a stop work
order on your permit, they understand what that means, but it doesn't really say that. If
that's what we mean, then, I guess I think it should say that. If we mean something
different, some other type of order or directive, citation or whatever it is, if it's something
other than that, I guess it's not very specific as to what that is or what the remedy is if
they ignore it. The stop work order is pretty specific and people understand it and they
know they couldn't do anything else until they fix it, but this one doesn't tell me exactly
what that is.
Hawkins-Clark: And, frankly, I'm not sure that there really is any other more effective
measurement to do the stop work order than when you're just stating that this could be
a fine. Then -- but there is no stop of the work, that doesn't look too good for the Code
Enforcement Officer to go to the neighbors and say we have cited them, but it could be
three weeks.
Nary: Right. It might cost them 100 bucks, so, then, they just pay the 100 dollars and
just keep going. That was the one area I thought maybe needed a little bit more. I
know there is, obviously, some -- some of the comments we have are not very much in
favor of having this at all. Certainly, I know that's a component that probably will get
most controversy about it, but I think if we are going to have it, then, we need to have
some way to enforce it.
Nichols: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Councilman Nary, under 1 point -- excuse me -- 1.7B on Page 5, are you
thinking -- would it be sufficient in that provision where it references the orders that
could be issued to include a stop work order? Would that satisfy your concern on that
part of it?
Nary: Madam President. Yes. I think that type of language would be much clearer that
that's what was intended. I mean there may be other remedies, but I think if -- I think
Mr. Hawkins-Clark is right, I think for a lot of builders that means everything. If they get
a red tag and have to stop, that means everything. I think if that's what's intended as at
least one of the methods to deal with the problem. Then, I think we should clearly state
that in the ordinance, that they have the authority to issue that, so that it's clear,
because we all know that a building has some property right attached to it. We want to
make sure that people understand when they get that right, that that right has this
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attachment to it, that if you don't follow these regulations you may lose that. That way
it's a little bit clearer. I think it's just the language is maybe a little bit fuzzy about that,
so --
Bird: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Well, I thought that what we delayed this for two times was to make sure that the
whole county got an ordinance that was similar and we had the same penalties and stuff
and it sounds like we don't. It sounds like Boise has got something adopted already, but
-- and we are -- and I thought that's what COMPASS was getting put together was a --
and I don't think it's fair to the builders, because you have got builders that -- in this
valley that build in every district. Regardless of -- you know, they need to have the
same rules to work under and I would want to see something that would be a lot closer
to what everybody else in the county is either enforcing and doing, because it's just not
fair to the general contractors out there that are building in different entities.
De Weerd: Brad, would it be possible to come back next week or in two weeks or,
sorry, Anna, one of the two of you -- if we could get this back. There could be some
type of a comparison as to what our ordinance is proposing and what is being proposed
and -- or what is existing in Boise, Ada County, and maybe Nampa-Caldwell. I don't
know. Just so we have some measuring marks and maybe, in addition to that, to know
what DEQ and EPA's requirements are. I don't think I have so much an issue that we
are asking more than what DEQ or EPA standards are at this point, in light of the
lawsuit and some of the PM-10 and PM-2 levels, but it would be nice to at least
consciously be aware of the differences that we are asking, so that those can be
considered in our recommendation or deliberations.
Powell: I was just -- we can certainly get you that information. It was just a question of
if two weeks would be enough time, but I think that we can do that.
De Weerd: It can be longer than that, Anna. We want to be reasonable, too. We know
how busy your department is.
Powell: It just depends on how in-depth the summary statement you want is. If you
give us four weeks, I think we can probably lay it out a little better than just with two
weeks. It may take us awhile just to gather them up.
De Weerd: Okay. Now, this is a Public Hearing. Is there anyone in the public who
would like to comment at this point and have their comments considered as we move
forward? You want to state your -- I'm sorry.
Steinebach: Valerie Steinebach.
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De Weerd: Do you promise and affirm that the testimony you give tonight is the truth,
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Steinebach: Yes, I do.
De Weerd: Okay. Please state your name and address.
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Steinebach: Valerie Steinebach, 319 East 3 Street, Meridian.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Steinebach: The dust abatement -- I was just wondering if this was just about
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construction. Is this about all dust? I live on an alley off East 3 Street in between King
and Ada. There is an alley that runs by my house. Got two four-plexes behind my
house and a tri-plex and we are inundated with dust. Then, the alley is 25 miles an
hour, so you can figure we are inundated with dust and it's unbelievable. You can't
open your windows. I can go out in my backyard and hose my patio off everyday in the
summer from the traffic. You figure everybody -- most families have two cars, friends, it
is nonstop people down that alley doing 25 miles an hour.
De Weerd: Staff, I think we had someone here as well from ACHD, but maybe, Anna or
Brad, can you respond as far as what our ordinances might be able to help? I don't think
there is anything, but --
Hawkins-Clark: That's correct. I mean as written and we don't have anything on the
books currently that could be used. I don't believe, a standard -- standard regular sort
of use of a roadway. Certainly, this proposed ordinance doesn't address that kind of
activity. It is really more geared towards construction related.
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: We do have a -- we do have a speed in the alley code, 15 miles an hour.
Steinebach: Pardon me?
Nary: The speed limit in alleys in the City of Meridian is 15 miles an hour.
Steinebach: When did that happen?
Nary: Probably when they incorporated the city. I mean it's always been 15 miles an
hour. No, it is. It may not be enforced in your alley, but it is 15 miles an hour.
Steinebach: I have lived in my street for 16 years and I have had more police officers at
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my house from the speeding on 3 Street and in the alley. I have had police officers go
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out and look at their regulation book when I told them it's 25 miles an hour and they
have told me it's not. They come back and say, I'm sorry, I'm wrong, it is 25 miles an
th
hour. I saw Mayor Corrie last April it is 25 miles an hour. He called me on June 5 and
told me it would be 60 days with the City Attorney to get that speed limit lowered and to
get the one way signs put back up in the alleys, because alleys -- they are supposed to
run east to west. They used to have one-way signs on them and they don't, just a few
of them right downtown do. None of the ones out off Main in Old Town have one-way
signs. Nobody stops at the end of the alleys. You're supposed to stop at the sidewalk
before you go across the sidewalk and, then, you're supposed to stop at the street. I
can sit out there and videotape people all day long who don't even stop at the street.
Unless Mayor Corrie is wrong and the Highway Department is wrong -- and I was
dealing with Mrs. Stiles, it's 25 miles an hour.
Nary: No. I was wrong. It is 25. We can change it, because I'm looking at the City
Code right here and it is something that we have, actually, looked at in regards to
school zones and other places in the city at lowering the speed limit. We do have the
capability to do that. I mean it requires some signage changes and things like that, but I
don't see any reason why we can't correct that.
rd
Steinebach: Well, especially -- you know, there is some places -- on East 3 Street we
have the swimming pool down at Storey Park and this time of year -- I started this two
years ago with the Highway Department and Shari Stiles and what a danger. You
know, what a danger this is to children. People don't stop. I had a trash truck whip in
the alley last year and take out my lattice and hit one of my trees. It's -- I mean I don't
know, you know, really, what to do, other than --
De Weerd: Well, I certainly can understand your concern and, unfortunately, this
ordinance won't help, but we can ask -- and maybe I'll ask Christie if she can come up
and provide some testimony. She's with ACHD. We can find out what we can do and
initiate the process.
Steinebach: Okay.
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: And the City Ordinance that I'm looking at is 7-1-6 and it says on all streets and
alleys in Meridian 25 or as otherwise posted. There is language in the ordinance that
allows us to repost the alleys. We have a Traffic Safety Committee as well through the
Police Department. I don't know if you have already talked to them.
Steinebach: Yes. I have been.
Nary: And have them address and make recommendations on those types of things so,
I mean it can be done. It's not -- it shouldn't take this long.
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Steinebach: Shouldn't take two years.
Nary: It's not that complicated.
Steinebach: No, it's not.
Nary: And what we would normally want is a recommendation from the Traffic Safety
Committee as to what's appropriate for this particular area and whether an ordinance
change is necessary or simply a reposting of the alley. Whether or not there is any
particular other issue with ACHD, you can tell us that, but our ordinance does have that
-- some leeway to it now.
Steinebach: I mean I have been through the Highway Department. Mrs. Stiles, I have -
-
Nary: She's not here.
Steinebach: I know she's not. Thank you. I know she's not. Mayor Corrie -- I mean I
have -- safety people. I can't -- I literally can't get anything done. Nothing. I can't even
get my phone calls returned anymore.
De Weerd: Well, let's ask Christie to come up here and see what we can glean from
ACHD's --
Steinebach: Well, you guys are really into this thing, I mean we can -- I can get -- if
somebody can get me a name of a person to get with, we can do that this --
De Weerd: Okay. Why don't you hold off for a moment and I'll ask Christie to come and
we will see what we can do?
Richardson: Thank you, Madam President. Christie Richardson with the Ada County
Highway District.
De Weerd: Do you promise and affirm that the testimony you give tonight is the truth,
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Richardson: It is.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Richardson: First of all, to address your concerns, ma'am, I will take this back -- walk it
back personally to the Highway District tomorrow and I will get in touch with our
Maintenance Operations Manager Errol Morgan and also our Traffic Manager Terry
Little. I will talk to traffic services about the speed limit and about the sight distance at
the intersections. I will talk with Mr. Morgan about the possibility of paving the alley.
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May 13, 2003
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We do set aside funds every year for miscellaneous alley pavement. We have been
doing this in regards to the PM-10 counts. We are most of the way through fiscal year
now, as you're well aware, so I'm not sure what our budget looks like in that department
as far as alley maintenance repairs, but it's possible that we could get it on the list for
st
the next fiscal year, which begins October 1. Let me do some legwork and, then, we
can get back to you after I get some answers from those other departments.
De Weerd: Thank you and so those names Errol Boren --
Richardson: Errol Morgan.
De Weerd: Errol Morgan. I don't know where I got that.
Richardson: And Terry Little.
De Weerd: Okay so, that's who she will be working with through ACHD -- do you have
a card?
Richardson: I will find one.
De Weerd: Okay and we will work with -- perhaps our Planning and Zoning Department
can take a look at our ordinance and see what we can do on the city side. I guess I am
quite astounded at the 25 miles an hour, too, and that's something that we need to do
on the city end of it.
Steinebach: I can't get out of my driveway. I mean -- and you pull out and somebody is
pulling in and -- I mean you got it backed up and -- I mean it's just insane. I have been
told that all these alleys, by the highway -- everybody, are -- the law, east to west.
De Weerd: Well, what I will do is we will see -- we will ask our City Clerk to let you know
when this item will be discussed again. We will try and have a pre-Council discussion --
th
Will, maybe allow two weeks and bring it back on the 27 for Pre-Council discussion,
just to update, and maybe we can give you a sense of where we are going to go with it.
Nary: Madam President.
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Yes. I know in my discussions with Chief Worley that is an issue, but it has
always been a concern to him as -- because of the higher speeds there. The speeds
we can take care of, so you have come to the right place. That's our responsibility. The
one way issue I think is the Highway District's but, as Ms. Richardson said, they are
going to work on that end as well, so you have come to where you need to, this is where
it can be effective. It shouldn't take this long. It shouldn't be this complicated. This is
the government, but it doesn't have to be that hard.
Meridian City Council Meeting
May 13, 2003
Page 14 of 62
Steinebach: I know. Okay. Thank you.
rd
De Weerd: So, we will put it on June 3 and Mr. Berg will let you know approximately
what time and maybe by, then, ACHD, before they go out and post the alley, we can
have that conversation, then, and get all on the same page with it.
Steinebach: Not all these alleys need to be paved or -- I mean some of these alleys
don't even get traffic down them, except for the trash truck. My alley is massively
traveled and the way it sits, too, a child is going to be killed.
De Weerd: We appreciate you bringing that up and --
Steinebach: Every time I hear a car screech I just about have a heart attack, so --
De Weerd: Well, I appreciate your comment and thank you.
Steinebach: Thank you very much.
De Weerd: We will see you in June, and, thanks, Christie.
Bird: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Seeing how we have no more public testimony regarding the dust abatement
thing, I would move that we continue the Public Hearing for the Dust Abatement to June
th
10, 2003.
Nary: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to continue this Public Hearing to
th
June 10. All those in favor say aye? Those opposed? Oh, sorry. Don't need to do
that. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Item 8. TE 03-003
Request for a one year Time Extension on the Preliminary
Touchmark Subdivision
and Final Plat approved in May 2002 for by
Briggs Engineering, Inc. – south of Franklin Road and east of Eagle Road:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 8, request for a one-year Time Extension on the Preliminary
and Final Plat approved in May of 2002 for Touchmark Subdivision by Briggs
Engineering, Inc. Brad.
Hawkins-Clark: Thank you, Madam President, Members of the Council. This is a
request for a one-year Time Extension. The Touchmark plat is, I believe at this point in
Meridian City Council Meeting
May 13, 2003
Page 15 of 62
time, with our city engineer. The recording of it is not anticipated to happen within the
required one-year time frame, because of the signatures that they have yet to get. Their
letter from Briggs Engineering did not state any specific reasons, other than just the
recording is not going to happen in that amount of time. Ordinance requires that the
Council approve time extensions, staff is in support of this, and we do recommend
approval.
De Weerd: Thank you, Brad. Is the applicant here?
Hawkins-Clark: I was contacted today, I'm sorry, and they stated to me that they would
not attend.
De Weerd: Okay. I'm sure they don't disagree with your recommendation, so --
Hawkins-Clark: No.
De Weerd: Council, any discussion?
Bird: I have none, Madam President, date of the plat?
Hawkins-Clark: That would be May 8, 2002, is the stamped date on the plat that's in the
recording process.
Bird: Is that final or preliminary, seeing how they are asking for both?
Hawkins-Clark: That is final.
Bird: Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Brad. Any further questions? I would entertain a motion.
Bird: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would move that we grant the request for a one year time extension on the
preliminary and Final Plat approved in May 2002 for the Touchmark Subdivision by
Briggs Engineering, Incorporated, south of Franklin Road and East Eagle Road. The
Final Plat date is May 8, 2002. Give them an extension until June 1, 2004.
Nary: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to extend the Final Plat approved on
-- to June 1, 2004. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Meridian City Council Meeting
May 13, 2003
Page 16 of 62
Item 9. FP 03-024
Request for Final Plat approval of 124 building lots and 14
Watersong Estates
other lots on 38.92 acres in an R-8 zone for by JUB
Engineers, Inc. – west of North Linder Road, north of West Ustick Road:
De Weerd: Item Number 9, request for Final Plat approval of 124 building lots and 14
other lots on 38.92 acres in an R-8 zone for Watersong Estates by JUB Engineers, Inc.,
west of North Linder Road and north of West Ustick Road. We will start with staff.
Brad.
Hawkins-Clark: Thank you, Madam President, Members of the Council. The Final Plat
that is before you is on the west side of Linder Road, north of Ustick, directly across
from the future middle school that's under construction now. Bridgetower Subdivision
future phases are on the west boundary and Ada County unplatted parcels are on the
north and south. The applicant is proposing to construct the entire subdivision under a
single phase. There are 124 building lots and 14 other lots. The plat is -- as submitted
is shown. The Preliminary Plat was substantially complied with in this Final Plat
submittal. The staff report from Bruce Freckleton and Steve Siddoway received by the
th
clerk May 9 does outline our proposed conditions. The one change that is noted in
that staff report is here in this southeast corner, this unplatted Ada County parcel that
during the Preliminary Plat phase, as I understand, was shown to be -- that was not
shown in the correct size. They did have to modify that and as a result, they did remove
one building lot in this southeast section of the plat. I think that's really the main
configuration change from the Preliminary Plat. There are two notes to point out to you
that staff has had feedback from Mr. Gary Lee at JUB Engineers, who is representing
the applicant. Item Number 16 on Page 3 of the staff report talks about the sidewalks
being a five-foot without encroachment of mailbox structures and we have consistently
allowed those to be four-foot. That would be a change that I think would be consistent
with what you have approved in the past. I think that's the only change to the
conditions. The one new condition that we would suggest is that a revised Landscape
Plan be submitted prior to city signature and that is due to a Settler's irrigation gravity
and pressure lines that are in the common lot that is here on Linder Road. There is an
easement that Settler's is requiring there that's going to force the trees to be placed
within the rear 10 feet of that common lot. The Landscape Plan has trees scattered
throughout that common lot, so that's going to basically -- since the irrigation district
does not allow trees within their easement, that's going to force those trees to the back
ten feet of that and that's a change that we wanted to be able to review prior to
signature. We don't anticipate any problems with that, so we are comfortable with that
moving on, but -- and, then, in terms of the fencing, there was, I guess, one item on the
fencing to point out to you as well, that is here on this southwest corner. There is a
common lot that will have a tiled irrigation ditch within it. Instead of putting the fence on
the perimeter of the subdivision at that point, they are asking for the perimeter to be put
on the -- the perimeter fencing to be put on the rear of the lot lines, so that it's clear
where the lot lines end and where the irrigation easement begins.
Nichols: Madam President?
Meridian City Council Meeting
May 13, 2003
Page 17 of 62
De Weerd: Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Brad, would that create kind of an alley back there or is it because it's not
currently developed, it's going to create an alley in the future when it's developed? A six
foot fence back there with that common lot and the --
Hawkins-Clark: Mr. Nichols, the applicant is probably best to explain that situation. I
can pull Bridgetower's plat to see what they had adjacent to this west boundary. On the
south I believe that the irrigation district is probably going to need a little bit more room
for -- to continue their easement, so that when this piece to the south develops it would
become wider than what is shown there, but you are correct, it could potentially have
that effect. I mean I -- within an irrigation ditch piped back there -- and there have been
a few instances where we have allowed buildable lots to have piped irrigation ditches in
easements in their rear yards, but it's been more the exception than the rule.
De Weerd: We will ask the applicant to respond to that. Brad, did you have anything
else?
Hawkins-Clark: No, we do not.
De Weerd: Brad or Brad? Okay. Is the applicant's representative here?
Lee: Gary Lee, JUB Engineers, 250 South Beechwood in Boise. As stated by staff, we
reviewed their conditions of the plat and concur with the changes that they are
recommending. I would like to discuss the fencing just a little bit more that Mr. Nichols
brought up. The reason for lot there is to be able to pipe the Coleman lateral, which is
operated by Settler's Irrigation District. In my discussions with Nathan Draper, the
manager of Settler's, they wanted us to grant a portion of that easement on our
development with the idea that another piece would be granted on adjoining
developments. Basically, the reason for that is that the ditch is right on the property
line, part is on one neighbor and part is on the other. On our part, we are going to go
ahead and pipe it within the boundaries of the zone and we are also going to install a
12-foot gravel roadway for their access for maintenance purposes. In the future when
the property develops to the west and the south of us, there will be a gap between them
for that ditch and access for Settler's to get to their manholes for cleaning and whatever
they are going to do. It makes sense to us to move the fencing in towards the lot line
and leave that area open for their maintenance capabilities. It probably makes it easier
for Settler's, too, for maintenance, especially if they have to dig it up. Along those same
lines, we have a similar situation with the existing sewer easement along the very north
boundary. You can see there is a lot running east and west and there is a dashed line
over on the west side that turns and goes south. It indicates where the existing sanitary
sewer easement is for the White Drain and that easement is 32 feet wide with a gravel
roadway over the top of the pipe that's probably 14 or 15 feet in width. It leaves a little
room on either side of that gravel roadway to do some sort of landscaping, same thing
on the fencing. We'd like to be able to bring that fence along the lot lines if we could,
Meridian City Council Meeting
May 13, 2003
Page 18 of 62
instead of along the perimeter of the subdivision, something for your consideration. If
you have any questions, I would be glad to answer those now.
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Bird: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Gary, what -- are you going to -- the height of the fencing is going to be six-foot on
the back there that you're --
Lee: Whatever the city's requirements are. I think they are six feet on the perimeter
fencing.
Bird: I think it is six feet.
Lee: And I think it's four feet on the pathway. I suppose it could be a reduced height
there. Maybe it would work better along those lots.
De Weerd: Yes. I think --
Bird: But sometimes, you know, six foot enclosed fences aren't the best for safety back
there and you know people are going to be back there walking and -- on the easements
and stuff like that, unless they deed it off, but you can still get through it to walk and stuff
like that. I think it's something we need to take a look at.
De Weerd: This probably isn't the first place this has occurred. Staff, do you have any
instances -- boy, I'm having fun talking tonight -- on where this has happened and this
might be something that we need to look at a policy for, but I think it's a good point. We
are creating alleys and pockets that probably are not real desirable.
Hawkins-Clark: Madam President, could I just ask for a clarification from Gary. If you're
piping it, has Mr. Draper told you that they still need a gravel access road?
Lee: Yes, they have.
Hawkins-Clark: Even though it's to be piped?
Lee: Yes. I believe the reason for that -- they have some head gates back there they
need to get to on a regular basis, so they will be driving it.
De Weerd: So, I guess, Gary, would it be acceptable if we asked that you reduce the
height of the fencing in those areas?
Meridian City Council Meeting
May 13, 2003
Page 19 of 62
Lee: Well, I think we can do it anyway you want to go. If you want a reduced height
and the position of it, is a suggestion I thought maybe Council should consider. If you
want to reduce it, that's fine with us.
De Weerd: Thank you. Brad?
Hawkins-Clark: If I could just point out that the six-foot is a maximum set by the
ordinance, but the ordinance doesn't require perimeter fencing for subdivisions, just to
clarify that.
Lee: It doesn't?
Hawkins-Clark: No. That's typically a Final Plat. If you're adjacent to undeveloped
land, it is a frequent Final Plat comments that staff puts in, but it's -- the ordinance
doesn't say that every subdivision shall have a perimeter fence. If the Council does
choose to change that -- I mean, certainly, it would be accessible, it appears, for anyone
walking down the sidewalk coming down on that stub street to just hop onto that gravel
path. You know, our micropath standard, as Anna was pointing out, is the semi-private
fence with the option of a lattice on the top of the four-foot fence. Should the Council
choose to, just in these two sections, put that on there, Brad Watson is noting it would
be helpful to have that a requirement for that fencing and those sections to be a note
clearly on the face of the plat, just for tracking purposes when they come through for
fence permits. I'm sorry, for the developer, because this would be a developer-
constructed fence.
De Weerd: Well, I think if we didn't require the fence, Brad, generally, you see that the
property owners end up building a fence and, then, you lose that option to have a height
or a see-through type of fence, so --
Lee: I think the developer would probably prefer to build a fence, too. Get it all in at
one time. Control the continuity.
De Weerd: Thank you. Any further questions? Comments? Okay. Thank you, Gary.
Lee: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Council?
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Just so I'm clear, so are we wanting to craft some language into the conditions of
the fencing or do we want something that will provide a new Landscape Plan and
Fencing Plan consistent with the comments tonight about having lower fencing along
the easement area on the north boundary, I guess, is the area we are talking about?
Meridian City Council Meeting
May 13, 2003
Page 20 of 62
De Weerd: And then this --
Nary: That's south, so, on the south boundary. They can decide, I guess, and work it
out with staff on whether it be four-foot fencing or more open vision type of fencing, so
that would be -- is that what we are talking about? There is one section here, I just think
that there was a typo in there as well, so correct that in the Final Plat. The word
subdivision is spell incorrect. I don't recall if there were any other suggested changes.
Bird: The sidewalk.
Nary: Oh, that's right.
De Weerd: So, are you prepared to make a motion or are you just trying to think these
things through first?
Nary: Well, I was trying to think them through first and I think at 16 where it says the
five foot wide walkway, is that the one to amend?
Bird: Yes.
Nary: Okay. Okay.
De Weerd: Will, I think in our budget request for next year you really need to get an
improved system.
Bird: Definitely.
Nary: He would have to have it attached to a new city hall.
Bird: Or we can buy one that we can move over to city hall. I mean I think that portable
tape we got is older than I am. Get more inaudibles on that thing than you can get the
deal.
De Weerd: That was just a filler discussion. Are you ready?
Nary: I guess I'm ready. Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I would move that we approve FP 03-024, the request for Final Plat approval for
124 building lots and 14 other lots on 38.92 acres in an R-8 zone for Watersong Estates
by JUB Engineers. West of North Linder Road, north of West Ustick Road, to include all
staff comments and conditions, with the following amendments. That Item Number 16
of the site-specific requirements be amended to allow for a four-foot wide walkway
pathway, instead of five-foot that the applicant provide, prior to final signature on the
Meridian City Council Meeting
May 13, 2003
Page 21 of 62
plat, a revised Landscape Plan, as well as a revised Fencing Plan for the north and
south property line -- or fencing or -- excuse me – boundaries. That the applicant could
provide either open vision fencing along the easement pathways there or four-foot
fencing and that could be done before Final Plat. I think that was all the requested
changes.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Did you second?
Bird: I seconded. Yes.
De Weerd: Okay. Discussion?
Nichols: Madam President, I think it also needs to address allowing the fencing to not
be required on the perimeter in those areas.
Nary: I guess I thought I heard him say that they would prefer to put in all the fencing.
That they wanted to --
Nichols: Correct but they wanted them on the back -- they want them outside the
easement.
Nary: Oh. They wanted them on the property line. Yes. I guess that could be included
in the fencing plan, that they will have the ability to put them on the property line, not the
-- the property line, not the boundary line of the subdivision, but they could work that out
with the staff before final signature.
Bird: Second agrees.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. I'm not going to repeat that, but the motion is to approve
FP 03-024 with the changes as noted. Do we have roll call?
Bird: Roll call.
De Weerd: Mr. Berg.
Roll call: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; de Weerd, aye; Bird, aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Item 10. Public Hearing: CUP 03-004
Request for a Conditional Use Permit for
Building Bridges Child
a childcare facility in an R-4 zone for
Development Center
by April Reynolds – 3289 North Towerbridge Way:
Meridian City Council Meeting
May 13, 2003
Page 22 of 62
Item 11. Public Hearing: VAR 03-007
Request for a Variance to the parking
Building Bridges Child Development Center
requirements for by April
Reynolds – 3289 North Towerbridge Way:
De Weerd: Okay. With the permission of Council, I will go ahead and I will open Item
Numbers 10 and 11 for Public Hearing. Request for Conditional Use Permit for a child
care facility in an R-4 zone for Building Bridges Child Development Center, as well the
Variance request to the parking requirements for Building Bridges Child Development
Center by April Reynolds and ask for staff comments first.
Powell: Madam President, Members of the Council, this is a request for a day care
facility. It is located on a lot that is currently zoned R-4. It was approved for office uses
as part of the Bridge Tower Subdivision, the Planned Development, excuse me, and,
let's see, figuring out how to operate things here. The site is -- as you can see, it's
surrounded by R-4 development. The creek is to the north. There is a vacant lot to the
south, a vacant office lot, and the Cox dental facility is immediately across the street
there on Tower Bridge Way and there is a vacant agricultural property to the west. The
Site Plan, as you can see -- I have got to find my arrow. Where is my arrow? Here is
the structure. It has a total of 6,800 square feet. It is a two-story structure and we will
have the elevations to show you. The play area is here. The creek goes along there.
Here is the street. They have a shared access point with the lot to the south, so the
parking -- or the traffic flow would presumably be coming in here. This is their drop-off
area that's noted in the staff report and, then, they could either, you know, turn around
someplace and come back out or go ahead and loop through and come out down here
through there. At the Planning and Zoning Commission, the focus of the discussion
was really on two items. One was the number of children. They had originally
proposed 200 children. The Planning and Zoning Commission struggled with that for a
little bit, but they decided -- they added a special recommendation that, basically, said
that the number of children should be based on the Fire Department standards and the
Health and Welfare standards established by the state for the day care use. There is a
variance associated with this application and I meant to ask you beforehand to open the
hearing on that application as well. Would it be agreeable -- okay to do it now?
De Weerd: I opened both.
Powell: Okay. Sorry. If the Variance is not approved, we would ask that you modify
that special recommendation of the Planning and Zoning Commission to also say that
the number of children should be based on the availability of parking. I'll go into that
next, because that was the second item of discussion for the Planning and Zoning
Commission and the -- although they weren't deciding on the variance, they did discuss
the amount of available parking and their general consensus was that there seemed to
be enough. Staff's recommendation, as you know, is for denial of the Variance and
that's based on the fact that the applicant hasn't really demonstrated that there is a
hardship on the property, nor have they really demonstrated that the requirements of
the City of Meridian regarding parking for the facility are particularly onerous. They are
similar to other jurisdictions. They are based on one per employee, which is certainly
Meridian City Council Meeting
May 13, 2003
Page 23 of 62
reasonable, and then one per 10 children, which doesn't seem extraordinary. There will
be peaks, obviously, during the early morning and the late evening hours, as people
come to drop off their kids. Regarding the drop-off area, even they acknowledge that
it's not a drop-off area in the sense that people just jump, it does require that the parents
do need to park and, then, go in the facility and come back out. It's not a true drop-off
area, it's just kind of, -- you happen to be a little lucky and get there. You don't have to
parallel -- or pull into a 90 degree parking area is really what is it, but -- and there were
some site-specific recommendations made regarding the design of the parking areas
and the need to increase the width of the driveway right here to accommodate that
drop-off area -- or to make these compact spaces, actually. Then, to reduce this -- this
driveway apron that they have got. It's currently about 45 feet wide. The standard set
by Ada County Highway District is 25 feet. They have been enlarged -- they have
increased that standard since the time that they wrote the approval of this, but the
standards that they set for this project, I believe, is 25 feet. In that regard, I would like to
point out, if I can find my arrow. I lost it again. There we go. That they are doing, as
part of the drop off they did decide that they needed a shared access agreement, so
that they could loop around this way, as I mentioned earlier. There is a private remedy
for the parking situation. They could expand that Cross-Access Agreement to include
shared parking. It's already something that they were going to initiate and it wouldn't be
unreasonable to share that parking with another use that didn't have such high
demands at the A.M. and P.M. peaks, before 8:00 and, then, shortly after 5:00. That
would seem to be a remedy for the Variance request, rather than granting a Variance
and, then, having similar issues come up with other day cares. That concludes staff's
remarks. Oh, there are the elevations. Sorry. They carry on the tower theme for the --
that the Cox Dental Facility has.
De Weerd: Thank you, Anna. Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none at this time.
De Weerd: Is the applicant here? Do you promise and affirm that the testimony you will
give tonight is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Reynolds: I do.
De Weerd: Please state your name and address.
Reynolds: My name is Tyler Reynolds. It's 2650 North Chancellery Way, Meridian,
Idaho. 83642.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Reynolds: It's a little difficult tonight. I'm just kind of a regular layman, I'm not 100
percent sure of the way by which -- the method by which we go ahead and go about
this. A couple points brought up tonight that concern me and in the beginning,
throughout this entire project, everybody has said, you know, that's a big project. That's
Meridian City Council Meeting
May 13, 2003
Page 24 of 62
a huge building, and you look at it and you say, yes, a lot of my friends and family and
everybody that's worked with me said, you know, don't you dream small and a lot of
times I just say no. When we started this project it wasn't to get rich quick, it wasn't to
build the biggest child center in town. My wife and I have two small children and,
unfortunately, there really is not a day care center around that suffices our needs. My
wife's been a director of day cares for years now and we have got our own ideas in what
we would like to do and we have traveled to Oregon, Washington and Utah and we
haven't found anything that has ever really met our needs, anything that's ever really
impressed us. About the best thing we honestly found was in Utah and that was a bed
that they were using in a preschool. Other than that, the facilities, the security, the --
you know, Internet web cams so grandma and grandpa could look at the children in a
different state, nobody's ever done that. We have started off with a dream and we met
a couple interesting people that were willing to help us out. We said, wow, we like this
building and, then, we go and say, well, unfortunately, you can't have this building,
because you don't have enough room for parking places. Then, the city says, well, you
haven't demonstrated a need for them and that's where I beg to differ. When you look
at my building, unfortunately, there is not all the little squiggly lines that I get to see
sometimes when we are drafting ideas. When you look at the footprint of the building
itself, yes, it's a big pretty building, but on the west side where there is the largest of the
rectangles, that's, actually, an auditorium, that's not a classroom. That's somewhere
where we can have a gym and have dance classes brought in and have karate classes
brought in, have the children be able to eat their meals without eating them in the
classroom where they play. Same thing. You don't eat your dinner in the living room,
you don't eat your dinner, you know, in your bedroom you eat your dinner in the kitchen.
Certain principles that I like to instill in my children, I have that plan to instill in others
and when it comes across they say, you know, you wanted to have 200 kids. Well, I'd
like to have 400 kids. Unfortunately, the building and the lot are not that big. When we
started off with the project, we started off with a budget and how many kids we thought
maybe we could hold and how many it would take to at least be profitable and not lose
money, but we believe what we have to offer we'd like to offer to as many children as
possible. You know, unfortunately, the building does look huge, but that is completely
unusable space, just like a bathroom, just like a closet, just like where I'm going to store
the water heater. There is another little nook in the building that's not on there it's an
indoor atrium. It is a two story part, it does have full skylights, but it's, essentially, an
indoor garden. What I do for a living is, actually, primarily teach dog and cat nutrition,
but I also try to teach on how to survive without computers and, you know, microphones
and everything else. How to raise your own animals, how to raise your own gardens
and that was one thing that was really important to me was have an indoor garden,
teach children how to grow their own vegetables and what life is, essentially, like and
how to survive. I want that area, now I have square footage, which is going to cost me
10 parking places. I come through and it's like, geez, I can't have my dream, I can't
have what I really want, because of a parking situation. I was joking with the gentleman
helping me tonight and I said, geez, I have to have a ton of parking places for people
that cannot drive a car. You know, none of these children drive a car themselves and
I'm told, well, you have 200 children. Well, I have two children myself, so I'm one car
taking two kids, which is very, very common. The Number 1 reason we are actually
Meridian City Council Meeting
May 13, 2003
Page 25 of 62
offering an infant facility is so we can accommodate parents with both infant children
and toddlers. Certain facilities don't do that and many in Boise absolutely do not. You
can either choose between a good facility or one that can accommodate your children.
When we had started this project, all the way from the beginning we have tried to set
our rates and our budgeting to where we are by no means anywhere near the most
expensive facility in town, we are, actually, about the third up from the lowest charge.
We are trying to make this facility the absolute best that we can and affordable for all
families, whether they be ICCP, they have a high income or a moderate income. We
choose this location primarily because it is surrounded by schools, elementary schools,
and decent neighborhoods. With any luck we can be serviced by the neighborhood,
itself, mom, and child can actually walk to school and don't have to drive the 100 yards.
A lot of the kids, when you look at it and you say, you know, a majority of the children
are all part-timers. At least 70 of, if there are 200 children, are part-timers. You say,
well, 70 cars all at once, that's not the way it is. We are trying to design this building
and this business to be efficient, so you could have a specific number of children
coming in the morning. When they come in the morning and they are actually bused to
school from that point, then, another set of children is bused back from kindergarten and
they are watched until their parents pick them up anywhere from 3:00 to 6:00 at night.
There are some really large windows where mass amounts of parking is not needed.
De Weerd: Mr. Reynolds, our staff had mentioned a Cross-Access Agreement. Do you
understand what that infers?
Reynolds: I would say to the most part. You know, I was part of the meetings where
we had talked about the agreement between our properties. The property to the south
of us and sharing the actual parking lot and the turn around time and making it easier
for the fire truck and Police Department to get in and out, but as far as the legalities of it,
I couldn't speak to those.
De Weerd: Well, what that is, is it allows you not to have to ask for a variance, is if you
have an agreement for that cross-parking access, then, you can also use some of those
parking spots in your count. You don't have to be asking -- you basically are meeting
your parking requirements, without meeting the variance, and so, essentially, you're
complying with what the city's ordinance suggests.
Reynolds: That sounds easy to me.
Bird: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: But, in the same token, what was built down there in that south part could share
some of your parking spaces on your property, too, so you want to make sure that you
look at it both ways before you enter into an agreement like that. I don't think it would
come back to bite you, but if somebody put in a big office building and a lot of
occupancy there, it could go into your parking lot count, too.
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May 13, 2003
Page 26 of 62
Reynolds: And I believe in a lot of those situations I think we have thought of that.
When it came down to it, even at the Planning and Zoning meeting, it was mentioned
that our building is, actually, the most intense usage of the parking. If we were an office
building of 9,000 square feet we would only have to have 17 park places and we have
got that beat by seven. Even if we ever have to turn this into an office situation, we
could do it, and we are trying to set aside the land itself, which is a playground that
could be paved and turned into parking at that point. Our lot is bigger than the lot south
to us, so they would have to put one mother of a building on there with no landscaping
or anything else to even compete with our parking needs.
De Weerd: Well, your building is very lovely.
Reynolds: We hope so. Thank you.
De Weerd: Council, any questions for Mr. Reynolds?
Reynolds: It's your chance to stump the chump.
De Weerd: Love to give it a try, but --
Nary: Madam President.
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I guess --
De Weerd: He can't resist a challenge.
Nary: No. I guess what I'm hearing or what I have heard Mr. Bird say and what I'm
hearing you saying is maybe you need to have some time to have that discussion about
shared parking, because what the staff report has indicated is that you haven't provided
enough information or there isn't really enough for us to make a finding to grant a
variance and I agree with what they are saying. I don't think there is enough to grant a
variance. It isn't that you can't have your dream, it's just this lot isn't very big. Do you
want some time to be able to explore that so we don't have to really address the
variance issue and look at that because, otherwise, I think the staff report's fine? Is that
what you're -- is that what you'd like us to do?
Reynolds: That's one that I have to actually throw off to him. I -- when we started this
project we said, oh, we have this Cross-Access Agreement and we have got this, I was
like, great, let's go, you know, and day by day I -- you asked me a question that I
honestly don't really have the answer to. I --
Nary: So I win?
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May 13, 2003
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Reynolds: Yes. Essentially, you do. I mean, honestly, I have to come up here I have
to, you know, answer questions, and ask questions at the same time, though I don't
understand the ordinance in itself. I don't understand the necessity for a facility like this
to even have the amount and I think the truth be told, that the ordinance is kind of crazy
and almost obscene, truth be told. There is no way in this world that any facility like it or
any competing facility within Boise, Eagle, or Meridian has the amount of parking
spaces. I have driven to every one of them. I know what their staff is, I know what their
child count is, that was part of doing my business plan and right now I'm being asked to
have more spaces than any other facility, even those that are competing to its size. I
don't understand necessarily the Variance and the Cross-Access Agreement, but I sit
there sometimes and I'll go, well -- you know, honestly, I just don't plain understand
even what the ordinance is asking us to do. I mean maximum a building of this size
could hold, you know, 15, 17 employees, maybe. Well, that's at full capacity and really
running, if we had cut out half of what we had planned and turned it into classrooms.
De Weerd: I guess, Mr. Reynolds, you have a couple of choices. We could maybe
bump this a couple of items down, so you have a chance to talk about it, or we could
continue it until next week to give you time to really give it some more in-depth
conversation with the people you need to talk to, so -- and to our staff. What would be
your preference? Okay. We can -- it is a Public Hearing and you will have to be sworn
in. We will give you three minutes and see what you think. I'm sorry. Do you promise
and affirm that the testimony you give tonight is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth, so help you God?
Juarez: I do.
De Weerd: Please -- your name and address.
Juarez: Brandon Juarez 935 South Island Glen Way in Eagle, Idaho.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Juarez: Okay. I'm the consultant that Tyler and April hired to help them through this
process. I guess when we originally designed the project we read the Idaho State Laws
and codes for childcare facilities and how they count the children. There was nothing --
no provision that I could see in the code that states -- and I mentioned this before and
it's in the prior report when we were talking to the Planning Commission. Yes. That
states a net area or a gross area it just says square footage of the building. What other
facilities have done, it seems to me, have come into the CUP process with a specific
number of children that equates to their parking and, then, they have gone to the state
to get licensed, because the city doesn't license and their license is given for a higher
amount of children. What we are trying to do is just bring the whole -- bring honesty to
the situation, to the -- to what's happening here, because The Learning Garden, which
is just south of the freeway, east of Meridian Road, is licensed for I think about 130 to
140 kids. They came into the city -- and I know this, because I talked to the director or
the owner of the center and she said she came into the City Council at 90 and that just
Meridian City Council Meeting
May 13, 2003
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got built like last year. And so -- and she has 17 spaces there licensed for 135 kids. If
you do the ratio, it doesn't work. I mean she needs way more parking spaces. If you go
to her center -- I mean she's got -- like she's using four parking spaces. So -- but I
guess what I'm trying to say is I think -- I know staff thinks or has said on many
occasions that the ordinance is common to what other cities are doing and it's fine and
everything else. I think if you read the minutes of the meeting when talk -- when we
spoke with the Planning Commission, three of the Planning Commissioners, before it
was even open to public discussion, before we said anything, questioned the parking
ratios and questioned the ordinance and I think they were very astute in questioning
that. I mean they hear these issues all the time and I think it was really an important
point that I made later when I got up. I congratulated them at spotting the issues of
parking, because that's something that I struggled with from the get go designing this
thing, trying to be honest, trying to come in and say, yes, we could have a maximum of
X amount of kids in this center. That's kind of something that I have been struggling
with. I'm kind of -- it's put us at a slight disadvantage, because if we just came in and
said, yes, we are going to have, you know, 20 kids and, then, come back and we get
licensed for all these kids, then, we are -- we are being disingenuous to the whole
system. So -- you had a question for Tyler about continuing or not continuing. That
was based on another question that I had forgotten.
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Well, I guess what I had asked is if you wanted the opportunity to go and seek
this shared parking arrangement, which is what the staff recommended.
Juarez: Right.
Nary: The staff report indicated there was not adequate information or evidence to
make -- for us to make those findings that a Variance is allowed and we are, as much
as we can be, pretty strict on making those findings and granting these variances. What
I did hear Mr. Reynolds say is that there may be space that should not be used to
compute on whether or not they have adequate parking. Some of it's indoor garden,
some if it's a gymnasium -- I don't know what's intended by the -- by your facility as to
how much children they are going to have or how that's computed by the state or if it's
different. That's something that I think makes a big difference on the amount of parking
that's required. Because it appears in our staff report that what the staff has looked at is
the total available square footage of the building, minus, probably, a few things like
hallways and restrooms. What I'm hearing you saying is that some of that is intended to
be left as open type of space, the gym and the garden and that kind of stuff. There
needs to be some better discussion about that on whether or not the formula that we
are applying, based on what the building is wanted to be used for, but the other side of
that sword is, is that if you do ask for 90, you get 90, you don't get 130. You're out of
compliance with your CUP and we could revoke it, if you're the Learning Garden.
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Juarez: Sure.
Nary: And so that's -- so it isn't -- I understand you're saying not wanting to
disingenuous, but, understand, the other option for us is to set a limit and say based on
that parking you get to have 130 kids and you can't have anymore than that without
violating the conditions of your CUP and that's a different option, but I -- but rather than
us going there, I was asking if you wanted some time to sort of work out some of these
details, because, as Mr. Bird said, maybe you need to work out those details and, then,
we don't have to concern ourselves with a variance, because from our staff report and
from everything that's said here, I can't make that finding, at least for me. I can't make
that you have really met the requirements of the statute, because, really, the reason that
you want a variance is because it's really inconvenient from what Mr. Reynolds' dream
is, but that doesn't fit so, that doesn't work. I'm trying to figure out a way that you can at
least have that conversation a little bit more before we just have to make a ruling on it.
That's why I think Council President de Weerd said do you want to go talk to the staff
tonight or do you want us to set it over for a couple weeks and have that discussion with
them and, then, come back and talk about it some more?
Juarez: Right. Okay. The -- I think what we probably should do is, you know, let it go
for a couple weeks and, then, come back to visit it. The developer is right outside. If I
owned the piece of property to the south, I wanted to sell it and get the highest and best
price and the highest and best use for that, I would be very, very careful about
encumbering or utilizing that parking for anything else other than what it can used to the
fullest and best extent. I don't think that it's a very -- I want to say this nicely. I don't
think that if I were the developer I would grant that and I don't want to, you know, risk
our whole life on our -- you know, Tyler's dream on an ordinance that we have that we
are being strict to that maybe is not -- is not such a great ordinance. That's my fear and
that's -- and I think -- I tried to speak to that earlier, based on the minutes of the meeting
that we had with the Planning Commission. I think the planning members were pretty --
pretty astute and pretty aware of things that are happening around them and
understand that that ordinance is -- on many occasions they said, yes, I never see any
cars in front of that facility, yes, I never see any cars in that facility. If Council wants to
be, you know, tough about the ordinance, that's fine, I don't have a problem with that,
but let us know how to go about changing that ordinance. That's something that I asked
Steve Siddoway in our first meeting, because I did a lot of research. Tyler and April and
I went around to all these facilities and we looked at how many parking -- I mean one to
five year olds, they just don't drive. I don't know why. They just don't.
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: You said it. You said it. Okay. I got that. I know the kids don't drive. You also
don't have a drop-off area. In fact, what I heard the staff report was that everybody has
to park to take their kid in. That does make it a problem. You're going to have -- you
might have the intention -- or Mr. Reynolds might have an intention to have just this
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Page 30 of 62
facility exactly the way he wants it, but we have to grant the CUP and this variance for
whoever runs this facility. It may not be you and it may not be him. Don't come back
here and tell us anymore that the little kids don't drive. We got it. What you do have is
you have a facility that's designed that every person that brings a kid there has to park
their car to take the kid inside. Not every one of these facilities requires that, they have
other ways of getting the kids there. They have turn arounds and drop-off areas and
things like that, so that the parents don't have to all find a parking space. Yours doesn't
so, that's why they need some parking. You may think that you're going to have people
show up at one time and not another, but that doesn't always work out, so you might
have 200 cars coming within an hour and every one of them has to park for five
minutes. You don't have adequate parking. Those are the things we have to consider
so, don't bring up again that the children don't drive. We have to look at the bigger
picture of how do these people get in and out of this facility safely. I don't think it's
unreasonable for what they are asking, unless you can bring us other evidence or
something else about your facility that's a little different and that matches the ordinance.
De Weerd: I might add that I don't think we are being very productive, but it sounds to
me like you would like to have us continue this, so you can come back and have an
opportunity to talk to the developer, talk to our staff, and talk, certainly, to your clients on
what you would like to do. Is two weeks enough or too much?
Juarez: Yes. No. I think -- when is the next Council Meeting?
thth
Bird: The 27. That would be the 27.
De Weerd: No. It --
th
Bird: Two weeks would be the 27.
De Weerd: We meet every week.
Juarez: Oh, do you?
De Weerd: So if you want one week --
Juarez: I think one week is fine.
De Weerd: -- or two weeks?
Bird: What?
Juarez: One week is fine.
th
Bird: Oh, the 20?
Nichols: Madam President?
Meridian City Council Meeting
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De Weerd: Mr. Nary -- I mean -- sorry. Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Madam President, Members of the Council, and, Mr. Juarez, perhaps you can
answer this. It's my recollection that the Fire Department does not actually determine
the numbers until they have actually got a blueprint to look at in the -- basically in the
Building Permit application stages. Staff, do you know?
Hawkins-Clark: Mr. Nichols, that's correct. I believe they do prefer to, actually, go and
tour the facility. That's usually when the final determination is made, so that they can do
their measurements on site.
Nichols: Mr. Juarez, do you have -- I realize they are not going to be Building Plans or
blueprints, but do you have plans of sufficient detail that perhaps a preliminary estimate
of the actual number of children that would be allowed in the facility in terms of the Fire
Department requirements? Do you have something like that to show the Fire
Department if they could maybe count up the square feet to determine those numbers?
Juarez: I believe I do, to a sufficient --
Nichols: But have you -- but you haven't done that yet?
Juarez: Well --
Nichols: Or have you?
Juarez: We have, but we were -- what I -- the first thing I said when I got up here is
that, really, the State Code for licensing a facility doesn't differentiate between net or
gross square footage, they just don't do it. They don't say net, minus bathrooms. They
don't say anything like that in their code. We were trying to just say this is the size
footprint of building we have. We weren't taking anything out of it. We weren't -- I mean
it could be that, you know, we can't fit -- we can't fit -- if we can fit 200 kids there, that's
great. You know, it could be that this particular building only fits 135 kids.
Nichols: Okay. Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Madam President, Members of the Council, it sounds to me like that's, really,
the critical piece of the information that you need, is some sort of a range without -- I
mean because the Fire Department is going to say we can't give you a specific without,
you know, the actual blueprints. If at least they had a range that based upon this
particular plan or this particular design, the estimate would be X number of children, that
would be relevant information for the Council with regard to how many parking spaces
we are actually talking about.
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De Weerd: I think that's an excellent idea. Anna?
Powell: Madam President and Members of the Council, also, because our standards
are based on not only the number of children, but also the number of employees, it
would be helpful to know how many employees they do intend on having. We based it
on an assumption of one employee for 12 children, but that's -- the standards vary by
the age of children and how many kids they are going to have that are going to be
infants versus toddlers, versus beyond toddler.
Juarez: That's correct. It's one per six on infants and toddlers it's one per 12 and, then,
four and five it's one per 18, so one staff member per 18. Again, it's a moving target
with staffing, members and children, again, so not only is the net versus gross a moving
target, but the staffing is a moving target, depending on what your age of children is. If
you have lots more infants, your parking goes way high. If you have lots more four to
five year olds, your parking goes way low. It's a very difficult situation for me to design
for, as well as to try to talk to about.
De Weerd: Well, it will help you at least get a range, so that you can get a better -- your
arms around it a little bit better and, certainly, I would imagine in your design you're
going to have an infant room, you're not going to just put them in one big room. You are
designing to certain age groups and we are not going to hold you to the letter, but
something more workable. We know if what we are asking in our parking requirements
are fair, we live by our ordinances, and if we find that they are unfair, then, we have to
go through the modification of those ordinances. Until then, we live by our ordinances.
If there is a Variance and it fits the criteria, then, Variances are fair and that's kind of
how we look at each individual case. This gives you time to work with our staff and with
our Fire Department to maybe help you with those numbers. Will one week be enough?
Juarez: Yes. The drawing is already prepared. I mean we already have a floor plan, a
footprint, of the facility. The portion in question that Tyler and I have been going back
and forth on is if we put a basement there or do we do a second story. The latest kind
of feeling that we have had is that we want to do a basement for -- a walkout basement
in that facility, so the two-story idea may go away.
De Weerd: Okay.
Bird: You got all kinds of -- excuse me. Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: You got all kinds of other issues, then, with a basement. You have got your ADA
and stuff, so I don't think you can come up with this in one week if you're doing it. Not
only that, you know, you're asking us to go on a Variance that we handicap the
developer's property to the south of you. That's all I was trying to get across is you
need to go talk to that gentleman and see if he is willing to put something in there that
isn't going to take up many parking spaces, so that you can have the parking spaces for
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May 13, 2003
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your facility. When you're going from a two story to a basement -- and I don't know
whether it's going to be a daylight basement or a full basement. I mean there is more --
you got to have more exits. You got to have all this stuff in a basement for ADA and
safety deals, so I question if you're thinking about changing the footprint and the --
whether you can do it in one week.
Juarez: Well --
Bird: That interferes with your CUP.
Juarez: We -- we have the same ADA requirements for a second story as you do for a
basement. You have stairs. You have elevators. You have all that stuff.
Bird: I realize that, but you got to have different entrances.
Juarez: It's much easier for us to -- it seems to be, anyway, easier to do a walkout
basement on this particular project.
De Weerd: Well, Council, I think we probably would be best to move on, continue it for
a week, and if the applicant is ready, we can bring it up then.
Bird: Madam President?
Juarez: Can I just say one more thing? I don't want to upset anyone, but I just wanted
to make sure -- Mr. Nary, I hope I didn't offend you. I tried not to. This facility is -- about
the drop-off piece. We specifically designed this facility for a drop-off area. I'm not sure
-- maybe I didn't -- I misunderstood you, but the other facilities that I have visited, none
of them have -- well, the Learning Garden does have a turn around, but this is what -- I
mean this is what we intended this whole thing for is for the drop-off and that's what we
designed it for. A lot of the other facilities don't. The Learning Garden does, but many
others don't.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Juarez: So, I just wanted to make sure that -- because I didn't understand it. Thanks.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Bird: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would move that we continue Public Hearing CUP --
De Weerd: Before the motion is made, any further comment? Okay. Anymore public
testimony? Okay.
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May 13, 2003
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Bird: Okay. Thank you. Madam President, I would move that we continue Public
Hearing CUP 03-004, previous -- the request for a Conditional Use Permit for a child
care facility in an R-4 zone for Building Bridges Child Development Center by April
Reynolds at 3289 North Tower Bridge Way until May 20, 2003.
McCandless: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been move and seconded to continue Item Number 10 until May
20, 2003. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
De Weerd: Item Number 11.
Bird: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would move that we continue Public Hearing VAR 03-007, a request for a
Variance of the parking requirements for Building Bridges Child Development Center by
April Reynolds, 3289 North Tower Bridge Way, until May 20, 2003.
De Weerd: Do I have a second?
McCandless: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. Moved and seconded to continue Item 11 until May 20, 2003. All
those in favor say aye. Okay. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Item 12. Public Hearing: CUP 03-010
Request for a Conditional Use Permit to
obtain a Dealers License and sell quality used cars and trucks in an I-L
Finish Line Automotive
zone for by Lyle Lee Kallenberger – 44
th
Northwest 10 Street:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 12. Public Hearing for CUP 03-010, request for a Conditional
Use Permit to obtain a dealer's license and sell quality used cars and trucks in an I-L
zone for Finish Line Automotive and I will open the Public Hearing with staff comments.
Hawkins-Clark: Thank you, Madam President, Members of the Council. This
Conditional Use Permit is for a five-car sales lot within an industrial zone. The parcel is
here at the northwest corner of Northwest 10th and Franklin. The Eight Mile lateral
th
does course the property. It's shown here on the west side of Northwest 10. It does
come across the corner of this property as well. Crestwood Estates Subdivision is
Meridian City Council Meeting
May 13, 2003
Page 35 of 62
immediately across on the south side of Franklin Road there. A day care center is here
on Franklin Road as well. The Conditional Use Permit is required because in a light
industrial zone, in order to do a sales lot, you must have a CU. The Planning and
Zoning Commission reviewed the Site Plan that is here on the screen and they did
recommend approval of the Conditional Use Permit. There are a couple of conditions
that they added to the staff report that I'll point out. The access to the site here is -- this
is was, actually, a staff report condition, but to narrow the entrance to the proposed
parking lot to 35 feet, it's shown wider than that at this point, to help define a clear
entrance point into their lot. They are proposing a temporary sales trailer that would be
th
here just as you enter into the site off Northwest 10. I believe your packets have an
elevation of that trailer. I did not put that into the presentation tonight, but I was told by
the clerk's office that you had that. That was submitted with their application and we are
recommending that that be the only trailer that be permitted there is the type that's
shown on their elevation. They are -- the P&Z Commission did put a two-year time limit
on that temporary sales trailer. At that point in time we would basically put a tickler in
our files and say we would go and verify at that point that they have moved ahead on
their permanent facility, which they have shown a footprint here on the Site Plan just to
the west. I'm sorry, to the east. I think the other -- a couple of items to point out. The
site -- as you may recall, some of you on the Council, was approved for a Conditional
Use Permit for this existing enclosed area. There is a fence with slats that is used as
kind off an off-site storage slash contractor yard that is there. They are proposing to
keep that at this point in time. All of this area in the middle is shown to just be open.
Our proposed condition is that they have -- they keep that free of weeds, debris, et
cetera, and that no parking be permitted there and they would have to sign that as no
parking. The five parking stalls that are here on the south side of the lot, this is the only
area proposed to be asphalted. These five would be for the sales lot portion and, then,
they are providing two -- two stalls that are here on the north side next to the trailer.
Just checking to see if there is any other -- oh, as far as water and sewer, they are
going to be required to hook up to -- hook up to the temporary office building to city
water and city sewer. Item number seven on page three of the recommendation also
points out that the applicant would be required to tile the irrigation canal running
throughout the southwest corner. Either that or a Variance application must be
submitted, which I don't believe one has been. Unless you have further questions of
staff, I'll leave it at that.
De Weerd: Council, any questions for staff?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. This is a Public Hearing. Would the applicant like to come forward?
Is the applicant here? I guess if the application has no questions or no comment, I --
Nary: I have --
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May 13, 2003
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De Weerd: Okay. We have questions of the applicant, so if you will come forward, I will
swear you in and -- do you promise and affirm that the testimony you give tonight is the
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Kallenberger: Yes, I do.
De Weerd: Okay. Please state your name and address.
th
Kallenberger: Lee Kallenberger and 44 Northwest 10.
De Weerd: Thank you. Mr. Nary.
Nary: Mr. Kallenberger, we have two different photographs and I -- are they the same
building or is one the backside of the building?
Kallenberger: They are just two buildings that are being used at a different car lot right
now. The actual building that I want to use is nicer than both of those. It's a temporary
building that I think it is Huckstepp Builders have located and it would just be placed
there on bricks until -- and with a skirting type thing around it. It's actually, nicer than
any type of trailer situation. It's overkill.
Nary: Well, it appears in looking at the minutes from the Planning and Zoning
Commissioners, probably the most discussion there was on the building, the quality of
the building that was going to be there, and there is a two year limit placed on that by
the Planning and Zoning Commission. Do you really need two years to have that
building on the site? I mean is that -- I guess it kind of bothers me to have this
temporary structure in this type of setup when this appears to be a permanent facility,
normally, these types of buildings that we approve for subdivision offices, those kinds of
things, when they are building. You know, we only allow them during the time period
when they are building the subdivision and, then, once they are done they have to take
it out. This appears like it could be for a long period of time. Two years is kind of
concerning to me. Does it really need two years?
Kallenberger: I would like two years, just in case things change. I just want -- well,
financial situations to make sure that I can develop all this stuff. I'm just one person
trying to do a big development. I just want to make sure there is enough room there
that I can operate now, as soon as I can, until I'm ready and I have already got it
prepared to -- this guy that I'm buying it from is going to come and take it -- I'm just
going to give it back to him. It's not an issue of how long it's there it's just gone when
I'm done with it.
Nary: Okay. I guess I'm not clear, then. You're saying the person you're buying this
structure from was only going to let you have it for two years, so --
Kallenberger: Yes.
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May 13, 2003
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Nary: Okay. At the end of two years -- but I guess my concern is this doesn't just affect
you, I mean if we grant you this use for this temporary trailer structure on the site, the
next person that comes along and wants that, we don't have a real reason to deny it
either. I don't know that I want to have a whole bunch of these populated down Franklin
Road and so I guess that's my concern. I mean it may look a little nicer than what you
got in this picture, but all this says is you have to have it like the one in the picture. I
guess I would -- I guess I'm not very comfortable if you're saying you don't have any real
plans between now and the two years, it just depends on how many cars you sell on
whether or not you can build a permanent facility. That gives me a little bit of concern to
approve it. Is that the best you can tell me?
Kallenberger: That is all I can say is in that length of time I guess I'm deciding if I want
to do that with my property. I want to decide if that's what -- the direction I want to go. I
did if for a couple years prior, but now I just want to do -- try going this direction.
Nary: Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: And where are you going to park the used vehicles for show?
Kallenberger: In the five parking spaces right out front.
De Weerd: And where will your clientele park?
Kallenberger: Well, they are making me add I think two more, the way I read. Two
more parking spots and we are just going to bump everything over to the east about
another -- however many feet it needs to be to add the extra parking spaces.
De Weerd: And so where will you park?
Kallenberger: In those areas. That's why they made us expand it, because of the
employee parking or myself.
De Weerd: Okay. You will have one parking spot for employees, one parking spot for
your customer, and five parking spots for the used vehicles.
Kallenberger: I'm unsure of exactly what the ratio was, but I know that it was what the
staff had recommended. That's all I remember. I read it and I remember that it was
within the legal limits.
De Weerd: Okay.
Bird: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
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May 13, 2003
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Bird: On Item 7 on Page 4, it's -- the maximum period is 18 months, instead of two
years on that, the recommendation, and I -- so -- and we're coming up with 24 months.
What is the --
Nary: The P&Z recommendation is 24 months.
Bird: But the recommendation here is stating 18 months, unless otherwise approved.
Hawkins-Clark: Madam President, if I could just clarify. The 18 months is -- was -- the
ordinance says that from the date that you approve it, this permit is only good for 18
months. If he doesn't go out and start to put paving down and use it by 18 months,
then, the permit expires.
Bird: That's what I wanted clear right now, because he's thinking he's got two years, 24
months. Well, six months is a big -- a big difference.
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Two different things. What the recommendation is is that he can use that
building for two years. The 18 months is just to begin operation.
Bird: Yes. That's right.
Nary: But once you begin -- he could begin operation a month from now and he's
satisfied that condition.
Bird: That's right.
Nary: The other condition is that he can, then, continue to use that building for two
years.
Bird: I agree there.
Nary: So, they are two different things.
Bird: Yes. He needs to -- I don't know if he was clear on that.
Kallenberger: I wasn't. That was a question I should have had.
Bird: I didn't want you to get burnt, because, you know -- and thinking one-way and,
then, having it happen the other.
Nichols: Madam President?
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May 13, 2003
Page 39 of 62
De Weerd: Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Question of staff. Brad, the 18 months is to finish all the requirements for the
Conditional Use Permit, but doesn't he have to get a Certificate of Zoning Compliance
before he can open up for business?
Hawkins-Clark: That's correct.
De Weerd: And so the 18 months is how long he has to get everything done and ask
for a Certificate of Zone Compliance, but he can't -- he can't start work on it and open
up at the same time.
Hawkins-Clark: Correct. He has 18 months to acquire the Building Permit and
commence construction.
Nichols: But as far as actually operating his sales business out of there, everything has
to be done first?
Hawkins-Clark: That's correct. Before -- right. Before the occupancy could occur on
the site of that trailer, he would need to, right, go through, get the parking lot approved,
and get the landscaping approved.
Nichols: Okay.
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I think this is, again, from what Mrs. de Weerd had said. I mean in reading the
staff report it says -- these are the five spaces here for the used cars, correct?
Kallenberger: That's correct.
Nary: And it says you need two spaces one of them is a handicapped space for
customers to park and there is no parking here. Where are you going to park? This is
for your customers to park.
Kallenberger: Where them -- where them three trees are, where they called them
sequoias, but they are not, they were cracking a joke about those, that's just going to be
expanded over just a little bit more. However, many feet it takes. What is it? Eight
foot? Nine foot driveways? I have got enough property there to go however much I
want to go.
Nary: So, this is going to be additional parking here?
Kallenberger: A little bit. Yes.
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May 13, 2003
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Nary: Did I miss that? Is that here? Because that's not what the staff report says and I
guess I didn't hear you say that. You're going to take out all these threes here and put
parking there?
Kallenberger: They are not there. Them trees are not there yet.
Nary: Oh but on this plan there is no landscaping in here any longer, this is all parking?
Kallenberger: Yes. It's just an open area right now. It's open.
Nary: I understand that it is now. We have a landscape requirement, too. What I'm
asking staff is this is now parking, this is no longer landscaping in here, is that right?
Hawkins-Clark: Madam President, Mr. Nary, the ordinance says for sales lots you got
to provide one-third of the spaces used for sales for customer parking.
Nary: Right.
Hawkins-Clark: They are providing five for sales. One-third of that is like 1.7.
Nary: Right.
Hawkins-Clark: So, technically, as drawn right there, they meet the ordinance.
Nary: But there is no room for him to park.
Hawkins-Clark: I agree. As you read the Planning and Zoning Commission minutes,
that's, I believe, why the Commission wanted to get that requirement in there.
Nary: Okay.
Hawkins-Clark: So, yes, those three trees are -- would be pushed over or moved
around to another area on the site, as Mr. Kallenberger stated, but he would have room
to move that asphalt over to the east and get a spot for him to park.
Nary: So, at the minimum he would need a new Site Plan, because it's not going to look
like this.
Hawkins-Clark: Correct.
Nary: Okay.
De Weerd: Any further questions?
Bird: I have none, Madam President.
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May 13, 2003
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Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: A question for staff. In talking to Mr. Kallenberger, I can only think of these types
of temporary structure facilities as for subdivision building. I can't think of any other
ones that we let people have these as, essentially, their facility until they can figure out if
they can do something different, is there other facilities like this?
Hawkins-Clark: Mr. Nary, you know, the school district uses temporary trailers, of
course. There are some churches around town that use them for Sunday school
spaces. Off the top of my head I can't site any commercial areas that are similar to this,
no.
Nary: Okay. Thank you.
Bird: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Mr. Kallenberger, you're willing to tile that ditch out there on the south?
Kallenberger: Yes, I am. It's got to be done anyway, so -- to make my property worth
more.
Bird: Okay.
Kallenberger: As a matter of fact, I have got that lined up.
De Weerd: Any further questions?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Kallenberger: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Council?
Bird: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
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May 13, 2003
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Bird: Hearing no more comments that need to be stated publicly, I move that we close
the Public Hearing on CUP 03-010, the request for a Conditional Use Permit to obtain a
dealer license for Finish Line Automotive by Lyle Lee Kallenberger.
Nary: Second.
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to close the Public Hearing. Any
discussion? All those in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
De Weerd: Okay. Any discussion? Or motion?
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Questions for staff? Yes, Mr. Nary.
Nary: I guess the only comment I have is I mean I just think this is incomplete. I mean I
think there is some -- I think there is some real good steps that Mr. Kallenberger has
made, but I still think this is a pretty questionable project and it makes me very
uncomfortable to approve this temporary building for this commercial lot. I think it isn't
something that's very common. I know we have -- I think Mr. Hawkins-Clark is correct in
pointing out that we have had some of these on school properties, we have had some
for school classrooms on church properties, but -- I mean they are operating a business
on one of our busier streets out of this temporary building, which I just think is a very
poor precedent for us to set. I think this is not the type of development that we will be
encouraging along Fairview or Franklin or any -- Eagle Road or any of them. There is
no temporary -- I mean the temporariness of this makes it very difficult for me to put any
particular interest in wanting to do this. I think it needs to be a little bit more permanent
than what's being requested here and I just can't be in support of it.
De Weerd: Is there any other discussion? Would someone like to try a motion?
Bird: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: While I agree with Councilman Nary to a degree, I have seen temporary buildings
put on dealerships -- not in Meridian, because we do not have a lot of dealerships. Up
until a couple years ago, we didn't encourage all the dealerships, unless they were new.
I have seen a lot of temporary and you can take those temporary deals -- I have got a
concern on the length of it at times, but I know that that's something that goes with our
ordinance. That don't bother me as much as the attitude is we are going to wait two
years and see if this is successful. If not, we will just shut her down, you know. To me,
that isn't -- that isn't what we hope to get coming over to Meridian, but that's something
that -- you know, he's the one that puts out the dollars and cents and has to make the
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May 13, 2003
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bottom line add up. I have -- I have no problem with -- again, I know it is a busy street,
he's going to tile the ditch, he -- but I think if you look in the conditions of that temporary
building, it will probably look as nice as some of the permanent buildings that's built out
along there. I have -- that don't really bother me as much as some other concerns, but I
would certainly give him the benefit of the doubt. Like he said, he's the one that's
putting up the money and going to make it successful if he wants it to go. If nobody else
has anything, I will make a motion.
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would move that we approve CUP 03-010. Request for a Conditional Use
Permit to obtain a dealer's license and sell quality used cars and trucks in an I-L zone
th
for Finish Line Automotive by Lyle Lee Kallenberger 44 Northwest 10 Street, and the
attorney to draw up the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision of
Order, with staff and applicant's comments included, with suspension of rules.
De Weerd: Suspension --
Bird: Oh, I guess I don't have to do that.
De Weerd: You can try.
Bird: I will do anything.
De Weerd: I will second. Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve the CUP
request for Finish Line Automotive. Any discussion? I guess I would just add that I
think the property owner is doing a lot of improvements that certainly will improve that
lot and in the economy today, I think you do have to be a little cautious and I guess I
had an issue with some of the parking and -- but I don't mind so much. I guess my
biggest concern would be enforcement, that after -- after the time period is up and the
trailer isn't moved, it's certainly a lot more difficult going in and shutting someone down
and it's not the most positive thing to put the city in that position for -- but it's a risk they
have to take. Since we still have a little discussion, I would like to ask the staff on how
enforcement could be done.
Powell: Madam President, Members of the Council, I believe at our last hearing I
mentioned that I wanted to institute a way to keep track of the Conditional Use
approvals and the final and Preliminary Plat approval as it went through. We have
something not quite finalized yet, but we know how we are going to do that and how we
are going to set it up and we can set -- certainly, it would be easy enough to set up a
trigger on this file as well, so that we had a review date. Then, at that point if he -- if the
trailer is still there after two years, we can send a letter, we can cite him if he doesn't
remove it after we send a letter and, then, you will always have the option to revoke the
use permit at that time.
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May 13, 2003
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De Weerd: Okay. Well, we have a motion on the floor to approve the CUP request.
Mr. Berg.
Roll call: McCandless, aye; Nary, naye; de Weerd, aye; Bird, aye.
De Weerd: Okay. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE NAYE
Item 13. Public Hearing: AZ 03-005
Request for annexation and zoning of 61.33
Verona
acres from RUT and C-G zones to an R-8 zone for proposed
Subdivision
by Primeland Development, LLP – northeast corner of West
McMillan Road and North Ten Mile Road:
Item 14. Public Hearing: PP 03-003
Request for Preliminary Plat approval of
172 building lots and 16 other lots on 61.69 acres in a proposed R-8 zone
Verona Subdivision
for proposed by Primeland Development, LLP –
northeast corner of West McMillan Road and North Ten Mile Road:
Item 15. Public Hearing: CUP 03-007
Request for a Conditional Use Permit for
a Planned Development for 146 detached single-family dwellings, 20
townhomes, 6 office lots, 6 shared driveway lots, 16 open space lots,
including addition to community park in a proposed R-8 zone for proposed
Verona Subdivision
by Primeland Development, LLP – northeast corner
of West McMillan Road and North Ten Mile Road:
De Weerd: Okay if Council would not mind, I will open Items 13, 14 and 15, for request
of annexation and zoning of 61.33 acres from RUT and C-C zones to an R-8 zone for
proposed Verona Subdivision by Primeland Development, LLP. Request for Preliminary
Plat approval of 172 building lots and 16 other lots on 61.69 acres in a proposed R-8
zone for Verona Subdivision and also Item Number 15, request for a Conditional Use
Permit for a planned development for 146 detached single-family dwellings, 20
townhomes, six office lots, six shared driveway lots, 16 open space lots, including
addition to a community park in a proposed R-8 zone for Verona Subdivision. We will
open the Public Hearings 13, 14 and 15, with staff comments.
Hawkins-Clark: Thank you. On the first item for annexation and zoning, Number 13,
the request is for an R-8 zone. The property is here adjacent to approved Lochsa Falls
Subdivision that is on the north and on the east, un-annexed, unplatted Ada County
property on the west here on North Ten Mile Road. The red parcel that's shown there is
-- was approved as part of Bridgetower Crossing Planned Development. It's annexed
as a C-G parcel. The property that is surrounded here on the northwest corner doesn't
show up on this map, but it was also a part of Bridgetower Crossing and was also zoned
C-G. The Comprehensive Plan does show this as medium density residential, as the
application showed. That has three to eight dwelling units per acre and they are coming
in with a net density of about 4.2. The requested R-8 zone does meet the
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May 13, 2003
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Comprehensive Plan and the Planning and Zoning Commission did recommend
approval of that. As you can see, predominately existing Ag land out there the Lochsa
Falls project, as you may recall, is, actually, beginning their development from Linder
and moving to the west. The latter phases of Lochsa would come into play here
adjacent to Verona. Item Number 14 on the Preliminary Plat -- I will go over some of the
highlights there on the plat and a couple of modifications to the recommendation. The
plat as shown here is -- just because it's fitting the screen better, but north is to the left,
so not to be confused. The south end of the project, McMillan Road, is here on the
right-hand side and Ten Mile is at the bottom of the screen. It is a Planned
Development, so they are requesting under that application some non-residential uses,
and those are shown here mainly at their entrance off of McMillan Road. A residential
collector that's proposed to come in, circle around this annexed commercial parcel, and,
then, come out to Ten Mile Road. It's -- staff thinks that's a good design. Ada County
Highway District I think made the same comment. It does provide for good access from
inside the section and inside the subdivision to this commercially zoned corner, not
unlike the R.C. Willey design there on Eagle and Franklin Road, as you may recall. At
that entrance off of McMillan, they are showing office lots, potential day care site,
coming in, then, with a small area around this cul-de-sac of attached units. Another
office lot that's shown here at the -- as the collector curves and, then, church, and other
office uses shown off the entrance to Ten Mile. That does meet the maximum 20
percent of the gross land area for nonresidential that they are permitted to request. Most
of the north end of the subdivision -- north half has the single-family detached housing.
They are using the Lochsa Falls stub streets that are coming in from the east. There are
three of those, as well as an easement here at the south end. The Lochsa Falls
Planned Development had a multi-family lot that was designated here and, then, office
that had the McMillan frontage and between those two uses they had a 29, 30-foot wide
private road easement that comes through and that would be continued on through this
project. They are utilizing all of those Lochsa Falls designs and stub streets. Here on
very north end there is about a four and a half acre parcel that they are proposing to
dedicate to the city as a park. That would be combined with the 24 and a half acres that
Lochsa Falls, as you know, is also showing to the city, so that would be meeting the
parks department's 30 acre or so standard for community parks and that would have
some frontage and access off of Ten Mile, as well as this collector. The applicant has
agreed to construct a multi-use pathway along the south end of this park parcel -- park
lot, as well as provide 20-foot landscaping there. We might get this clarified, but I think
the parks department is going to take maintenance of the landscaping, ultimately, since
it is going to be on the park's parcel. I did check with Doug Strong tonight and since it's
on park's land, even though the build out of that community park wouldn't happen until a
later date, because this is shown in phase one of Verona, so they are proposing to put
in that ten foot wide asphalt along with the landscaping in Phase 1. It will be precede
the city's acquiring of the full park, but it sounds like Doug's in agreement and he can
testify if he wants on that, to still maintain that prior to the city getting that -- the rest of
that land developed. As far as the Planning and Zoning Commission recommendation
on both 14 and 15, they did recommend approval. The recommendation on the
th
Preliminary Plat should have a change. The revised Preliminary Plat date is April 30
rd
not April 3 as shown. I think the main other outstanding question to have Becky
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May 13, 2003
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address tonight would be the relocation of the -- what is it call? McMullen. Yes, the
McMullen lateral. It's currently bisecting the property and they are proposing to relocate
that to come within the project, come, I believe, along the collector and, then, it would
come along adjacent to Ten Mile Road. It would be located in an easement that would
impact the landscaping street trees that our ordinance does require along Ten Mile and
I think that is an outstanding issue that we will need to talk about tonight, how the street
trees would get addressed within that easement that's going to be relocated there. Yes,
and, then, the last item to -- staff's recommending an added condition that deals with
common driveway lots. There are a couple of locations where the lots have minimal
frontage onto a public street. As a Planned Development, they are not required by the
ordinance to do the common driveway lots, but I believe Anna talked with Becky tonight
about providing the common driveway in Lots 9 and 10 and 25 and 26 of Block 3.
There are two sets of lots there, and, then, Lots 27 and 28 of Block 10. I think that's all
we had to point out at this time.
De Weerd: Thank you, Brad. Any questions of Council?
Bird: I have none, Madam President.
De Weerd: Applicant? Do you promise and affirm that the testimony you give is the
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
McKay: I do.
De Weerd: Please state your name and address.
McKay: Becky McKay, 1100 East Valli-Hi, Eagle. I'm representing the applicant on this
matter. This is a colored rendering of the project and what we did in here is we stuck in
the Lochsa portion of the park to kind of show you, you know, what -- how that all
interfaces and how that would look. If you recall, when I did the Lochsa project, there
were a couple of concerns as far as the Lochsa park and access and so forth. One
issue that was brought forth was the hope that some additional acreage could be added
to the Lochsa Park to bring it up to 30 acres. Secondly, the hope that some type of a
collector system -- a collector roadway could be built in that would, obviously, provide
some access to that park and what we have done is based on the comments that we
received from the Council when that particular project was going through the Public
Hearing, we have incorporated into this project. We have proposed approximately
about four and a half acres be added to that Lochsa. We are not asking for any park
impact fee credits. It will be donated. We will be constructing this collector roadway,
providing sewer and water services. We have been working with your Public Works
staff on locating those. We have indicated -- we went before the Parks Commission, we
showed our plan to them, they supported it, and we indicated that we would provide like
any topographic information, records of surveys that we have, so that they don't have to
duplicate that work that's already been done. This is a two-phase project. The first
phase will be kind of a zigzag of this northern portion here. We anticipate building that,
starting construction as soon as possible, probably in the month of July, based on how
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May 13, 2003
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long it takes to process our construction plans. I'll put that down and show you the
Preliminary Plat. One of the things that we, obviously, took into consideration is the fact
that we have got this C-G area here that was approved with Bridgetower. It's important
and I think we all agree on making sure that we have good interconnection with these
projects. We have aligned this collector roadway with this town home entrance we have
to the south in our Bridgetower project along McMillan and, then, this is a full collector
coming around and wrapping in. That would provide access to this commercial, also
providing access to our mixed-uses here. As Brad indicated, this is a PUD, so we have
attached single-family, detached -- or attached single-family, detached single-family,
and, then, office uses. Since this is commercial and it is approximately 15 acres in size,
so you could have say an Albertson's or some type of store there, we didn't want to put
the single-family right up against it, so we are buffering it with the office here and here
and, then, we have got the attached -- or single-family at this location. As Brad
indicated, if you recall, in the Lochsa project they had office lots along McMillan Road,
with a Cross-Access Easement that linked to this property. We have gone ahead,
extended that Cross-Access Easement, and intersected it into our collector roadway.
This is going to be multi-family at some point in time, so these people could come in, if
designed properly, and access to get to say an Albertson's without going out on the
arterials. The other thing with the traffic engineers and, then, our pre-application
conferences with the Highway District, they were very impressed with the fact that we
were creating this collector here, because that will increase the capacity of the
intersection of Ten Mile-McMillan. Therefore, allowing traffic to come in, take this
collector, and, then, make a free right and go on down north on Ten Mile Road. This is
a collector roadway up to this intersection and, then, as we go north this is a local street.
There are three stub streets coming out of Lochsa Falls, which we have made
connection to. We have done so in a fashion that we don't encourage this traffic to be
cutting through us, with the exception of this roadway and in our design we have -- we
have had to blow a few lots for drainage, so we only have four lots here that would be
impacted by traffic coming through. Then, going into this collector, which we named
Belogio, coming out to Ten Mile. Like I said before, this collector will also provide
access to a parking lot or however you design this Lochsa Falls Park, density wise it's a
medium density residential zone. Our net density, as Brad indicates, 4.26, but the gross
density is 4.2 and that excludes any office, just solely the residential and, then, it also
takes into consideration the right of way and, then, the open space. We have asked for
a PUD. That allows us to deviate on our square footages for our homes and our lot
sizes. The two amenities that we are proposing is, one, the donation of the acreage to
the city and, secondly, you have a multi-use pathway that's shown on your
Comprehensive Plan map and we have agreed to construct that along that collector. In
our discussion with the Parks Department, it is our responsibility to come in and
landscape along this collector roadway. Brad mentioned something about the parks
department maintaining it. I think the offer we made before the Parks Commission was
that we would maintain it, we will landscape it, provide the sprinklers, and build the
multi-use path, so we will have the pathway, if you can envision that, the pathway and,
then, the 20-foot of landscaping all along here. It will be connected to our pressurized
irrigation system our association will maintain it, until such time as the Lochsa in its
entirety is developed. Then, this would be allowed to merge into this, so any
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May 13, 2003
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pressurized irrigation connections, we would work with your staff to make sure that we
have the right type of stub out, so that they can just connect right in, that the
landscaping is, obviously, acceptable to what they are going to be maintaining on a
long-term basis. We don't want to put any burden on the Parks Department at the
short-term basis, until, you know, they have got crews out there, because I just don't
think that's real cost effective. We do have one storm drainage area. This is the lowest
point of this whole property and we have got some ditches that come along here and,
then, they run down our boundary. We have been working with your staff and I want to
go on the record to trust fund -- it's a small -- just a small waste ditch. We want to trust
fund, therefore, providing that -- the dollars in order to pipe that to the city, so when the
park is developed that could be done and the reason being is if we go ahead and design
it and install it, it most likely will have to be torn out. Based on some of the elevations,
you know, if you guys had you to, you know, put a parking lot over the top of it or
something, it would have to be dropped down and probably siphoned and so forth. We
will provide the staff with a bid from our contractor and, then, we will give that money to
the Public Works Department to hold in lieu of -- that goes to the Parks Department for
that improvement. We want to work closely with Public Works and the Parks
Department to make sure anything -- any improvements that we make don't have to be
redone and, obviously, will mesh in. I know that they are talking to some landscape
architects about coming up with a concept design for this particular project. We have
provided landscaping along -- along the Ten Mile Road arterial. We have also
incorporated pedestrian pathways, cutting through blocks, allowing shortcuts, so that
these residents can come through these ped paths and get over to the park. The same
holds true here and here. As I indicated before, this is the low point of the property. In
our design we have really no choice but to have some storm drainage retention in that
corner. Kathy Strochein, our civil engineer, met with the Parks Department, they had
some discussions and she showed them some drawings. We would be landscaping
that area, providing buffering and so forth. I guess if it is -- I know like at Bear Creek it
became kind of a hot issue with Mr. Koontz. If that does become an issue, then, I guess
we would want to chop that off and just have that private, if we can't come to a
resolution. The meetings that we have had with the Parks Department recently, they
have been just very, very willing to work with us and try to come up with some great
solutions that benefit everybody. We have a really good project here, sewer and water.
The sewer has been extended up to this point and water and it's getting ready to go
along this roadway. Just to refresh your memory, an easement was granted by
Primeland, Mr. Bues, for your water line to come up here and, then, we granted a sewer
and water easement in alignment with this road, so that that sewer and water is no
longer going to be constructed through that park. That solved the third problem that
came up with the Lochsa development. We felt we have made great effort in trying to
solve -- resolve problems and to do what the Council kind of directed us to do when this
property was developed. The other issues are the right of way. I know everyone
always asks, you know, what about -- what about traffic. As I have indicated, we have
done everything we can to minimize the traffic and interconnect. The other thing we
have done, when we went to the Ada County Highway District Commissioners, we did
go on the record that we will be donating the right of way for this project on the arterial
for Ten Mile. We will not be asking for -- because it's not in their CIP, so, therefore, they
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can't demand it of you, but it is in the best interest of the city and the Highway District
that we provide that right of way. We went on the record and said we will donate the
right of way, we will not ask for impact fee credits, however, if extraordinary impact fees
are ever instituted on the project, then, we would like some credits for that. Now, who
knows whether that will happen or if it will happen before this particular project is
developed, do you have any questions?
Bird: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: First off, I'd like to thank Becky and Frank and Ed for donating that ground. We --
I happened to be on the start of the Lochsa deal and we brought this to Becky's
attention and Frank and Ed and they jumped right in and didn't even ask for any park
impact fees or anything else to help us to offset it. Then, I do have a question. On
moving that -- that ditch in there, Becky, you're going to bring it over to Ten Mile and run
it up -- or -- yes, Ten Mile, and run it up there with the easement stuff and won't be able
to plant along that easement, will you, over the -- over the ditch? Will the ditch company
allow you to -- that ditch you're going to --
McKay: The McMullen lateral?
Bird: Yes.
McKay: That McMullen lateral crosses, comes up, comes into this property, and, then,
kind of traverses here.
Bird: Yes.
McKay: So, we were going to catch it here and it's also a preference to put it in a
common lot, so then, we are not in conflict with residents and so forth. We have it in the
common lot. Well, then, the issue of the trees came up. What our plan is -- and we had
a meeting on that this morning -- is we have a detached sidewalk all along here on both
sides. We would like to have our trees planted between the face of the sidewalk within
the five foot landscaped area. Then, position the pipe and get the irrigation district to
kind of offset that easement, because some of the easements we will deal with they are
not centered on the pipe, they are offset, and as long as they get the easement they
believe necessary to go in and do any maintenance -- it's a concrete pipe. The other
issue that I brought to the Planning and Zoning Commission was I would like them to
provide us evidence that it is their facility, because I was told by them initially that it is a
user's ditch. In the conversations I have had with the farmer, he said the users
maintained it almost 99 percent of the time. They all of a sudden piped up and said,
well, it's ours. You know, that's for me and them to work out, as far as do they have the
right to dictate what we do with it. We have been working with them, we met out them
out at the site, we have talked about it, but I think we can accommodate those trees, as
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long as the staff works with us on the types of classification of trees, because we don't
want to plant anything that would buckle those sidewalks.
Bird: That's right.
McKay: And that is real important to us. If we have to go with flowering plumbs or
something more -- what do they call those, decorative trees, that's what we'd prefer and,
then, we have the pipe on the other side of that sidewalk. Then, that easement would
go just to the face of the sidewalk, so they would have no jurisdiction over that five feet.
That's how we plan on working it here. Along Ten Mile it will come up and, then, cross
and go westward. We have 35 feet here. We could set those trees back up against the
lots and, you know, we kind have kind of been, you know, looking at all our options,
because Settler's is not very flexible at times.
De Weerd: Is that a detached or an attached sidewalk?
McKay: On?
De Weerd: On Ten Mile.
McKay: Detached, and on our landscape lot. Not in the right of way.
De Weerd: Are there any further questions, Council?
Bird: I have none.
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I have probably said plenty tonight, but I do want to say this is very nice. I mean
it's an excellent project and the park addition is very much appreciated and all the work
that's gone into it and with all of the people. It's great.
McKay: Thank you. We appreciate it. We worked hard and your staff's been great to
work with, the Planning Department, Public Works, and the Parks Department.
De Weerd: I think you started over a year ago on this, because I think we met with Mr.
Bird on that one and I appreciate what you're doing with the right of way, too. Thank
you. You guys have always been very first class and that's really appreciated. Okay.
Bird: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
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Bird: These are the projects that make our job awful nice here and make us look awful
good and we certainly appreciate it and, you know, Frank and Ed have always bent over
backwards to make sure that the city has got their fair share. They have always been
that and Becky's -- I can't say how much of a help she's been to the Parks Department
and I know Doug's going to find this out as he goes along and she brings in projects,
that she works with the parks department very close and she gets it done. These are
projects that we can be very, very proud of, the Bridgetower is one, and now you have
got this one going, so we appreciate it. I do certainly appreciate it.
McKay: Thank you. You guys have this in your packet, I assume. I submitted it last
week.
Bird: Yes, we do.
McKay: Okay. I just had a few comments. In there, there is a clarification and I'm sure
Brad's already looked at it. Brad and Anna. With Brad, I don't know.
Watson: Either one. We did have one comment on those when we get a chance.
De Weerd: Go ahead.
Watson: Okay, while Becky is still standing up there and she wants to comment on it.
There is a -- the Preliminary Plat conditions of approval, site-specific B, Number 1,
regarding donation or -- yes, donation of the construction -- donation of an easement
area for construction of a water main. They are requesting that no latecomer fees for
water be assessed. Given my propensity for gun shyness lately on latecomer
agreements and misunderstandings down the road, I don't have a problem with this, as
long as the person who requests the latecomer, who was actually here earlier tonight,
provides written release or a copy of that agreement releasing this developer from those
latecomer fees. I don't have a copy of this agreement, so --
McKay: So, if we provide -- if we provide a copy of the agreement between the two
parties indicating that we are not subject to a latecomer fee for water, since we granted
the easement, then, that would be satisfactory?
Watson: That would be satisfactory, if that agreement has Marty's -- or Farwest's
signature on it, that they are releasing them.
De Weerd: We appreciate your caution.
Watson: They did teach me a lot.
Bird: We learned a lot, didn't we, out here.
Nary: Madam President?
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De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I will make one more nice comment, because I can do that, but I echo what Mr.
Bird said. I look at this project like your Bridgetower project and the same way that we
get -- like Mr. Bird said, it gets -- this makes our job easier. We point to that project a lot
as to how to do it right and this is another one of those to me that is the same way, but
we also get other applicants standing up here saying we are going to do it -- we are
going to build something like what Bridgetower looks like. I just appreciate, again, how
much effort is put path into make this a very nice, compatible, excellent looking,
excellent project for the city and it's noticed by us and it's noticed by other people out
there, too.
McKay: We are getting a lot of compliments from the community and from everyone, so
we are pleased. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you for your comment.
Nary: Thanks for not trying to put a 200 kid day care right there.
McKay: So, I guess if you guys could just go through the bolded ones and if you have
problems, I think under annexation and zoning, item A-3, it talked about us making park
improvements and a parking lot. Like I said, we are not -- we are not putting those
improvements in, because we don't know what you guys are going to do. We are doing
the 20 feet and the 10-foot asphalt multi-use pathway. Then, item C-3, the Fire
Department asked in the event there is a signal at that collector. That is at -- could
potentially be signalized, our project doesn't warrant it, because we don't generated
enough traffic and I guess it depends on what type of park facility you're creating, if it
would warrant it. I guess my comment was funding of the opticom improvement should
be borne by whoever necessitates the signal, because we don't necessitate a signal.
Then, under Preliminary Plat B-3 -- the others we have already discussed -- we,
obviously, won't be putting any fencing on the north boundary, because that would be
fencing part of the park off. We will be doing any perimeter fencing as required by the
staff. Okay. Then, there was some comment -- it looked like a hold over from another
staff report just got left in under B, Preliminary Plat condition B-5. There is no
playground equipment proposed with the project.
Bird: You can't blame us for trying.
McKay: We were hoping there was playground equipment in the park.
Bird: Well, I think there will be down the road, won't there, Doug?
Strong: Let's hope.
McKay: But anyway, yes, if you will just follow along with that, then, I think -- other than
that, we are in agreement.
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Bird: Thank you.
De Weerd: Mr. Strong, you have been awfully quiet over there. Do you have anything
you would like to add?
Strong: I'm relatively new to this project, but everything I have seen to this point looks
like it's going to be a very workable park for a community park. We hope to move in the
next year with a master plan design and construction documents, so we can move
ahead fairly quickly. This is a site that's been identified for PAL Soccer, I think, at this
point. We certainly need the space. It looks like it will lend itself to the type of traffic
that PAL Soccer will generate and we are excited to have it. Nice project.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Bird: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Anna or Brad Hawkins-Clark, Becky's reply to the solutions and stuff, are they
agreeable to you guys? I mean they sound great.
Hawkins-Clark: Mr. Bird, Madam President, yes, I think Brad Watson pointed out the
one clarification that we want on that and, then, of course, we don't have a
representative from the Fire Department here, but that's, you know, a change on the
opticom that I'm assuming our parks department is going to want to include in a future
budget.
Bird: The Fire Department will.
Hawkins-Clark: Or the fire, whichever. If you agree to adopt her changes -- and, of
course, that's going to be an impact on the city in terms of the opticom, but I think their
argument about the larger use bearing the cost is probably a good one. Otherwise, I
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believe, yes, we are -- other than the change of that Preliminary Plat dated April 30
and the addition of our common driveway lots that I mentioned earlier.
De Weerd: Thank you, Brad. Okay. Well, we still have an open Public Hearing. If
there are no further questions for staff or applicant, I would entertain a motion to close.
Bird: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would move that we close the Public Hearings for Veronica Subdivision, AZ 03-
005, PP 03-003, and CUP 03-007.
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De Weerd: Do we have a second?
Nary: Second.
McCandless: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. All those in favor of closing the Public Hearing for 13, 14, and 15,
please, say aye. Okay. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
De Weerd: Okay. Discussion? Discussion in your mike about the subject matter at
hand.
Bird: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: We are not going to have any discussion. We have talked to that. I would move
that we approve AZ 03-005, the request for annexation and zoning of 61.33 acres from
RUT and C-G zones to an R-8 zone for the proposed Veronica Subdivision by
Primeland Development, LLP. At the northeast corner of West McMillan Road and
North Ten Mile Road, incorporate staff and applicant comments, and for the attorney to
draw up the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision of Order.
Nary: Second.
McCandless: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve the request for annexation
and zoning for Veronica Subdivision.
Nary: Verona.
De Weerd: Well, I just listen to him. It's Verona Subdivision. Okay. Mr. Berg, will you,
please, call role.
Roll call: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; de Weerd, aye; Bird, aye.
De Weerd: Thank you.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
De Weerd: Item Number 14.
Bird: Madam President?
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De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would move that we approve PP 03-003, request for Preliminary Plat approval of
172 building lots, and 16 other lots on 61.69 acres in a proposed R-8 zone for the
proposed Verona Subdivision by Primeland Development, LLP, northeast corner of
West McMillan Road and North Ten Mile Road. The date on the Preliminary Plat is
April 30, 2003 and to incorporate staff and applicant's comments and replies and for the
attorney to draw up the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision of
Order.
Nary: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved to approve the Preliminary Plat for Verona
Subdivision. All those in favor say aye. Oh, sorry.
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Just so the record is clear, I know that Mr. Bird meant this will be the section to
include the common driveway language for the Findings of Facts. I think what was
stated was Block 3, Lots 9, 10, 25 and 26 and, then, Block 10, 27 and 28.
Bird: Right. I'm sorry. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you for your clarification. Mr. Berg.
Roll call: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; de Weerd, aye; Bird, aye.
De Weerd: Thank you.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
De Weerd: Okay. Item 15.
Bird: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would move that we approve CUP 03-007. Request for a Conditional Use
Permit for a Planned Development for 146 detached single-family dwellings, 20
townhouses, six office lots, six-shared driveway lots, 16 open space lots. Including the
addition to the community park, in a proposed R-8 zone for the proposed Verona
Subdivision by Primeland Development, LLP, northeast corner of West McMillan Road
and North Ten Mile Road and incorporate staff comments, applicant's comments and
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replies, and the attorney to draw up the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and
Decision of Order.
Nary: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve CUP 03-007, for Verona
Subdivision. Mr. Berg.
Roll call: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; de Weerd, aye; Bird, aye.
De Weerd: All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Item 16. Public Hearing: Amended Zoning Ordinance Meridian City Code 11-
8-1, Schedule of Use Control, to allow churches in R-40, I-L and C-G
zones:
De Weerd: We will move to Item 16, but I would like, Council, if we can add an Item 17
while Mr. Strong here and maybe talk about the Skate Park real quick.
Bird: You bet.
De Weerd: I'll open the Public Hearing for Item 16, Amended Zoning Ordinance,
Meridian City Code 11-8-1, schedule of use control, to allow churches in an R-40, I-L,
and C-G zones and I'll start with staff comments.
Hawkins-Clark: Thank you, Madam President, Members of the Council. Just for
clarification, is the only item that was placed into your packets the minutes from the P&Z
Commission meeting, isn't that correct? This was a coordinated -- somewhat of a
coordinated effort between our department and the legal department that began a few
months ago. It came to our attention, I believe, in response to an applicant who was
seeking to place a church in an I-L zone our ordinance prohibits churches in I-L zones.
De Weerd: Brad? We do have the ordinance.
Hawkins-Clark: You do have the ordinance?
De Weerd: And the minutes.
Hawkins-Clark: Okay. Great. I did not get those, so I just wanted to make sure. Yes, I
think it's a fairly simple modification that -- it's coming about from a federal act called the
Religious Land use and Institutionalized Persons Act. That is, essentially, saying that
cities do not have legal authority to keep religious institutions or other persons that have
been defined by the federal legislation from utilizing certain areas. I think this somewhat
came out of that. Mr. Nichols can probably address the legal side of it more, but the
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change at this point is just strictly a conditional -- I'm sorry, schedule of use control
change to add churches to these two zones. Or, I'm sorry, three different zones, as
conditional uses. Right. The R-40, the I-L, and the C-G and the Planning and Zoning
Commission did recommend approval of the change.
De Weerd: Any questions of staff?
Bird: Mr. Nichols.
De Weerd: Mr. Nichols?
Nichols: Madam President, Members of the Council, I think we reviewed this at a Pre-
Council Meeting. I think our ordinances didn't violate the RLIPA law, but this seemed to
make sense to add these as additional conditional uses in these additional zones to
accommodate these particular uses. Also, as a way of pointing out that we are not
violating that rule, but we are considering these uses and giving them a little deference,
but that's more or less what the federal legislation said we had to do anyway. We just
think it's a common sense thing, if somebody wants to put a church in one of these
zones, it's a conditional use to where we can take into account what is it next to, how
will it impact the particular neighborhood, and craft those conditions to mitigate any
adverse affects and still allow the use to go forward.
De Weerd: That sounds great.
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: It's on our agenda and noticed up and we can certainly -- there is nobody here to
have a Public Hearing, but we can pass this tonight, we didn't put it in the normal way to
do it, but there is certainly no reason we can't.
Bird: It's been done and everybody is comfortable with it and I am.
Nary: I am, too so, we just didn't put it where we normally have.
Bird: It sounds like staff and legal is comfortable with it, so --
Nary: It's already been through the Planning and Zoning Commission, so --
De Weerd: Okay. Is there a motion to close the Public Hearing?
Bird: So moved.
Nary: Second.
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De Weerd: Okay. All those in favor say aye. Okay.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
De Weerd: I'll entertain a motion.
Bird: Madam President, I move that we proceed with the reading of ordinance for the
schedule of use control to allow churches in R-40, I-L, and C-G and for you to have the
clerk read the ordinance by tile only and move it on.
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Clerk, if you will read our ordinance -- and I do need a title
number or a number as well.
Berg: Yes, Madam President. 03-1019. An Ordinance of the City of Meridian amending
Section 1-B, Commercial, of Chapter 8, of Title 11 of the Meridian City Code to allow
churches in additional zones and as a conditional use in the zoning schedule of use
control ordinance, providing conflicts, validity, providing a savings clause, and providing
an effective date.
De Weerd: Okay. Ordinance 03-1019 has been read by tile only. Anyone in the
audience who would like to have it read in its entirety? Thank you, Frank. Okay. It's
been read and now we just are waiting for a motion.
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I'd move the approval of Ordinance Number 03-1019, the Zoning Ordinance
Amendment of Meridian City Code 11-8-1, Schedule of Use Control, to allow churches
in R-40, I-L and C-G zones, with suspension of rules.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved to approve 03-1019 and all those -- oh, Mr. Berg.
Roll call: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; de Weerd, aye; Bird, aye.
De Weerd: I think Mr. Nichols and Mr. Berg need to trade places.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Item 17. Skate Park:
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Strong, if we could just have a discussion on the Skate Park.
There has been -- I know your staff has dealt with a number of issues down there and in
talking with Mr. Bird and the Mayor, we suggested some ways of looking at it as your
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staff and the Parks Commission are preparing the ordinance to deal with some of those
issues and looking at some staffing help. Were you able to look into that in further
detail?
Strong: Madam President, Members of the Council, we have discussed the proposition
of putting some supervision in the park. What that would look like, different ways that
we could possibly do that, from going to a security company and getting like a security
personnel to be there versus maybe working with the Police Department for a school
resource officer that would be assigned a portion of the summer. Since they are --
when school's out, they are out of school and, typically, reassigned to other duty during
the summer months. A number of ways to do that, we haven't come to any specific
recommendation or resolution to how we would do that yet, what would be the most
cost effective way to do it. Tomorrow night's Park Commission meeting we will discuss
this issue some more. Captain Musser and I this week have done some preliminary
work to the skate park ordinance and some working over, I guess, would be a term that
we could say to the skate park rules and ways that those rules could be enforced and
put in force by a resolution versus ordinance. As we are proceeding with the skate park
ordinance, we want to make that fit in the overall Park Ordinance and rules for parks in
general. The Skate Park Ordinance would be a part of a larger Park Ordinance and
looking at City Code there is quite a lot of work that we need to do to make that happen,
because of the way it's arranged right now. We are meeting again next week with, I
believe, the woman's name is Alice Tate, who is an attorney that works with the City of
Boise, maybe Mr. Nary's familiar with her. Her experience -- she does a lot of code
work, so that we can make whatever we do enforceable. The Police Department could
respond and either write citations, remove people, so forth. That's where we are at this
point. I guess I would need some clarification of what I would need to bring back to
Council for this staff position that's been discussed, to pursue that further, whether we
need a recommendation for the type of individual that we would be looking and the cost
and how you would like us to proceed with that.
Bird: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Doug, I believe on the -- between the ordinance and resolution, I think you're
going to have -- we are going to have to go with an ordinance, because a resolution is
pretty hard to define penalties and stuff. That's -- if we are going to go out there and
have a security person out there, we need to have some rules and some penalties and
things in our ordinance to do it. I might be wrong on that, maybe a resolution you can,
but it just seems to me that you got to have that in an ordinance form and I know we are
working on it. Doug has jumped into this since he come on board and has really moved
ahead with it and we have got to get something solved out there. I like your idea of a
resource officer or something like this and we somehow or other, maybe between you
and Elroy you can come up with a plan of how we can do this and the Police
Department and see if we can't get it taken care and bring back. That's what I would
prefer, to bring back before the Council. I know we are discussing it tomorrow night in
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our Parks and Rec Meeting, so we need to get on it before the summer gets coming into
us here and we have some major problems and I feel we are going to have a major
problem out there if we don't.
Nary: Madam President?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Could we maybe have this discussion at Pre-Council like in a week or two?
Bird: You bet we can.
Nary: Because it seems to me like we have got a couple of options. I mean we can
certainly look at what the cost would be for some overtime for the police to cover that
right now, whether or not we want to have a staff person, you know especially hired to
do this, whether or not to contract with Idaho Rangers or some other type of Security
Company. Mr. Bird is right, I mean from an enforcement standpoint we need an
ordinance, we don't -- a resolution isn't going to cut it if we are going to try to enforce it
with police or security or however that's going to work, so we do need to have an
ordinance. I think that we need to move on this in the next week or two to have that
discussion, so we know exactly what we are doing and, then, get that put in place.
Strong: It might be prudent for me to clarify what we have discussed as far as passing
skate park rules by resolution that already in ordinance. Such things as trespassing are
already in city ordinance. We would have -- we would have some new skate park rules
that could be covered by existing City Ordinance. We need to put those rules in force
that can already be referenced to City Ordinance, the way I understand it. We still --
what we want to do is take an overall Park Ordinance further and put it in place, so the
skate park rules become a part of an overall park ordinance, if that clarifies it.
De Weerd: So, Doug, are you suggesting that perhaps in the short term we can do the
resolution, tying it to existing ordinances, and, then, to further clean it up, you're working
on a more extensive ordinance for parks in general?
Strong: Yes.
De Weerd: That will also incorporate it? Okay. That sounds fair. I know we have
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budget discussions on the 27. What do we have next week, Will, in Pre-Council? I
know we haven't really discussed it, but what's on there already?
Berg: Right now tentative, Madam President, we have a Valley Ride presentation,
Blakeslee and Associates follow-up. That was a question mark, sewer easement policy
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for the Black Cat Trunk. That's all. We have a long list on the 27.
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De Weerd: Doug, will the 20 give you enough time?
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Strong: I think so. We can come back with a recommendation at that time.
De Weerd: Okay. Well, good, well, we will discuss that at Pre-Council next week. I
appreciate you looking into that, Doug. I know we just need to find something to start
taking a little bit of control on those issues that are happening down there.
Strong: Maybe just to take this one step further. With -- with park rules in place, they
can be acted upon by maintenance staff in the parks, say if there is someone on the
skate park with a bicycle or a scooter. If there is a fight that breaks out, they can,
actually, call the Police Department, attempt to hold the people involved there until the
police arrive, and take appropriate action. It doesn't require any kind of special training
or anything like that or commission for department employees to actually enforce park
rules, if I understand correctly. It takes us a little bit further than we are right now to just
put park rules in place, so they can be enforced. Then, the Police Department can
respond and, actually, take action and Captain Musser has found in existing city code
where -- like the bicycle problem we are having right now can actually be covered under
traffic code. He's found a way that if we have a problem with that, that we can actually
cite an individual on the skate park with a bicycle right now, which is new information as
of today, so the exploration into the City Code is helping us discover some things that
we can do fairly quick.
De Weerd: Well, good, thank you. One other thing that we will ask to be put on Pre-
Council is discussion about garbage services.
Nary: Do we need to meet earlier than 6:00?
Bird: We need to start at 5:30.
De Weerd: Most likely we will want to get an update from the attorney and see what we
need to do in regards to our own ordinances and that sort of thing. Would next -- is next
week going to be too soon, at least, for the initial conversation? Okay. Okay.
Nary: We will probably need an executive session to follow up with that.
De Weerd: And I guess some better sound equipment on your budget request.
Nary: Mr. Bird is going to pay for that, so --
De Weerd: Okay. Council, I would -- is there any other further business in front of
Council?
Nary: I would move to adjourn.
Bird: I would second.
De Weerd: All those in favor say aye.
Meridian City Council Meeting
May 13, 2003
Page 62 of 62
De Weerd: All ayes. We close the meeting at 10:10
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 10:10 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
APPROVED:
/ /
ROBERT D. CORRIE, MAYOR DATE
ATTESTED:
WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., CITY CLERK