HomeMy WebLinkAbout2003 06-03 Pre
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting June 3, 2003
The Pre-Council Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:00
P.M. on Tuesday, June 3, 2003, by Mayor Robert D. Corrie.
Members Present: Mayor Robert Corrie, Cherie McCandless, Bill Nary, Keith
Bird, and Tammy de Weerd.
Others Present: Bill Nichols, Stacy Kilchenmann, Brad Watson, Anna Powell,
Kenny Bowers, Bill Musser, Terry Paternoster, and Will Berg.
Item 1. Roll Call Attendance:
X Tammy de Weerd X Bill Nary
X Cherie McCandless X Keith Bird
X Mayor Robert Corrie
Corrie: I would like to call order the Tuesday, June 3, 2003 Pre-Council Meeting
and have roll call attendance please by the City Clerk.
Item 2. Adoption of the Agenda:
Corrie: At this time, we have the adoption of the Pre-Council Agenda.
Bird: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we adopt the agenda as published.
Nary: Second.
Corrie: Okay motion been made and second to adopt the agenda as published.
All in favor say aye. Opposed no. All ayes motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Item 3. Tabled from May 27, 2003: Discussion of Budget Items
Policies:
Corrie: Item Number 3 is tabled from May 27, 2003 on a discussion on budget
item policies. Stacy Kilchenmann.
Kilchenmann: Mr. Mayor, Members of Council I believe this was the item that if
Council had any special projects or requests for information that you were going
to give that to me.
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June 3, 2003
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De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I think as we look to the upcoming budget year we need to be a little
bit more detailed in our professional services or contracted labor areas. As well,
do we want something in the budget for planning on a new city hall and if so how
much to put in there. I guess that’s probably first and foremost. I don’t really see
anything specific for Council that we’re not doing through our individual
departments as far as professional services go unless anyone else has come up
with anything but as we saw this year the 40,000 dollars for the Ten Mile
Interchange kind of popped up there unplanned and a couple of other things. Do
we want to put an amount there that is not really designated for those kinds of
contingencies or how do you want to go about doing that?
Kilchenmann: You still have in the base for FY04 you still have 45,000 just under
generic counseling. We still have that in the base for 2004.
De Weerd: I don’t know. I just think just because it’s been there historically I
think there needs to be better reasoning. We’ve asked that of the departments
we probably should expect it of ourselves.
Nary: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: You said it’s 45,000 for general counseling?
Kilchenmann: Consulting I’m sorry.
Nary: Oh okay I thought wow what’s that? I guess and Councilperson de Weerd
what did you have in mind.
De Weerd: Well if the Council really sees specific needs coming up that we want
to earmark at a certain amount and if so what would that be? What amount
would you feel comfortable for contingencies?
Nary: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I guess one of the things I – in just thinking out loud I know we’ll have
some further opportunity to discuss this. I do like having that contingency for the
Council to review so that avoids some of the issues in Boise where they have the
contingency to count that was sort of tapped by a bunch of different departments
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June 3, 2003
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and tapped to the Mayor’s Office and the Council didn’t have a participation in
that. I think to be responsible to the voters that really should be the Council’s
purview to deal with that. I agree, I mean some details probably necessary and I
think we’ll have to define that. I don’t know that we can define it today but I think
that probably makes since. You’re right I think that that’s the expectation of the
departments. It’s only reasonable that that should be the same expectation we
place on ourselves. I mean I think that makes sense I guess we just need to find
a better way between June or July I guess we can make that a little clearer as to
what types of things you want to use those types of monies for.
Bird: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I agree that we do need to have it on some kind of a program where we
need to state what we want to put in, where and why. I definitely think we need
to stay on track with having some money put aside for some studies on city hall
because to be efficient and to do it we’ve got to get our city hall back, get our
(inaudible) back under one roof and get that taken care of. It’s something we’ve
put off a couple years too long already.
Corrie: Let me ask the Council. Did you all see that from the report that came in
from the investment?
Bird: Yes.
Corrie: All right.
Nary: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Oh were you done Mr. Bird I’m sorry?
Bird: No I’m done.
Nary: Okay. I guess on the same item of discussion of policies about two
months ago I think I forwarded it to you with the all the Council. A policy
regarding to ensure a possibility both for the elected officials as well as the
appointed officials in the city to be again, accountable to the public accountable
to the citizens as to the budget and what it is. I guess I would like at least some
opportunity obviously that’s not on our agenda today for discussion but I don’t
want to just sit to leave that on the back burner forever. At some point like I
would like us to discuss that on whether it’s in conjunction with the budgetary
hearings or on a Pre-Council in the next month, month in a half whatever. It’s not
an urgency but I think at some point we want to make sure that the public can
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say where we take our responsibility seriously. We put it in words, we put it in
practice, and that was kind of the intent of that policy. I guess two things that I
have had in my mind for the last year and I know again we of course have a tight
budget year. I don’t know that this is necessarily for Stacy. I have had some
conversation with Pauline. I recognize I guess coming budget year, we’re going
to be fairly lean in regards to employees pay, and we’re going to really duress
them with the cost of different benefits, salaries, and pay. One of the things that
we haven’t done and I asked Pauline to look into it a little bit and I don’t know that
we’ll have any dollar figures, costs, or anything by budgetary hearings but there
will be some dollar figures attached. One of the things that I think we really need
to at least evaluate in a real program, systematic way is some other alternative to
employee incentives. I don’t just mean the bonuses I mean there are lots of
employee incentives that can be very minimal expense. One of the things we
don’t do here in Meridian that many businesses do is have flextime. For the City
of Boise, we have that and it can be a management issue at times but it’s a great
incentive for employees. If you’re very lean on pay and yet you can provide other
alternatives still provides a pretty good work atmosphere. Flex time at least for
other than the management issue that it can be sometimes doesn’t have any
cost. It doesn’t cost anything to have people work on different schedules. Those
are the things I’ve asked Pauline to look at and also to be looking at some other
alternatives you know again bonuses are a bad word in Boise but they don’t have
to be. There are ways to provide positive incentives to employees that are fairly
minimal in cost that again provide a positive work atmosphere. I think that’s our
overall goal so that’s something I guess I wanted everyone to be aware of and
discuss later as well. There maybe some cost associated with it and it may be
one of those where we’ve done in the past where we’ve said you know we’ll put a
little seed money into this or we get a report back on what we can do with a little
bit of seed but not a tremendously expensive funding. That was one thing and
there is an I guess more of a wish list sort of item. One of the things I’ve noticed
in our community is with the growth of our high schools we’re doing a better job
all the time in improving our Park’s and Recreation Program and providing these
opportunities to young people in our community. One of the things that we have
had in Boise for the last four or five years has been a fairly effective program and
hasn’t been very expensive is the program started by Council President Mapp
called Jump Start. What they’ve done with the different high schools in the Boise
School District is working through the counselors in the school they have been
able to hire between three or four interns per school. They have a whole system
of how it’s done. They’ve funded it with Boise. They’ve funded the program
about 20,000 dollars and that certainly doesn’t mean we have to put that type of
money into it first. With the opening of Mountain View and Meridian High, with
the Charter Schools and the different schools in our school district that might be
a good avenue to get youth involved in the city. All of these interns our offices
have used them a number of times. As a matter of fact, I told Terry last week
they actually have a potential for interns with the Charter School for our IT
Department. Also, in the other departments we’ve found it very successful
against kids again actively involved in the city. They get much more connection
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of what goes on. We’ve found kids in all different areas of discipline that have
some interest whether it’s in Parks, Public Works, the Legal Department, City
Clerks, or Mayor’s Office wherever they find a real interesting connection to the
city and that again provides the most positive avenue. Again, it’s a fairly
inexpensive program. The plus side as I told Pauline is we can set the boundary
of the program. If we want to make it a 5,000-dollar program then we hire fewer
interns. We don’t have to – we really can gauge the cost of it ourselves and
decide how big or small we want it to be. The model is already created we don’t
have to recreate it since it’s already been done and it’s working pretty effectively
through the Boise School District I’m sure the Meridian School District has been
involved with it because of Centennial. There is more of an opportunity like I said
it’s more of a wish list thing it’s not necessarily a need but it’s certainly something
that I think long term would be a real asset to the city.
Bird: I agree 100 percent with you Bill.
Corrie: We can do that Bill. We can give them time (inaudible) need and talk
about that. Another one that the employees have been talking about is personal
leave where they take vacation and sick as a personal leave. A lot of them will
not take sick leave and keep their personal time if they do leave then it’s payable.
It’s another thing that might keep them back on the job. Stacy have you
straightened out that Aspire On money where it’s coming from?
Kilchenmann: Mr. Mayor we’ve moved it back and forth. Currently our
understanding was that we were take as much out of Pauline’s and your budget
as we could and then move the remaining money from the Council’s budget into
Human Resources budget to pay for it.
Corrie: Is that agreeable to the Council?
De Weerd: Do we have amounts.
Corrie: We have a definite from Aspire On because we signed the contract.
De Weerd: No, I mean out of which account?
Kilchenmann: I think it’s 15,000 out of yours.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: I would like to have some money left in mine to do that team leadership
program with the Department Heads. We really need (inaudible) work that one
out as well. I think that’s 2,000 dollars.
Kilchenmann: I believe we have enough money left in yours to do that.
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June 3, 2003
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(Inaudible discussion amongst Council Members)
Corrie: It’s on now but – I think that’s a budget item that we’re going to have to
work on.
(Inaudible discussion amongst Council Members)
Corrie: Okay anything else Stacy?
Kilchenmann: Mr. Mayor we have pretty much completed the budget and getting
ready to pass minute to you. As far as the extra Council, items maybe as you
have items or think of things you can put it on the list to discuss when we get to
the budget hearing.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I guess two other things in addition if someone can do a little bit of
research on the city hall cost so we have a solid number on that, next steps and
that sort of thing. I don’t know if the Christmas party has been addressed and I
would like to see a line item in there for a volunteer appreciation picnic. I guess I
heard somewhere that the Christmas party was being talked about just doing the
individual department thing since they do them all individually anyway and then
doing something citywide during the summer. It is something that we can
combine with a volunteer appreciation but I would like to see that as a line item
as well.
Nary: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Just to follow up on that too. That was something I had been thinking of
as well is that whether or not it’s feasible or financially possible. I thought one of
things that could be looked at with an employee type appreciation and the
volunteers as a part of it but the employee type of picnic or something like that
that also would help some of the folks in our community would also be looking at
maybe renting Roaring Springs. Many businesses do that. That would allow
employees to bring their families as well. The Christmas party is pretty well
limited to just singles or couples and that might be another change. Again to see
if that is something that might be much more attended. There is some cost
obviously associated but I was thinking that that might be a nice change and
some change of pace do something different. Again, allow people with some
opportunity that maybe we haven’t done before and also supporting a local
business.
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June 3, 2003
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Kilchenmann: Yes I don’t think that would be anymore expensive than the
Christmas parties.
Corrie: The Christmas parties we’re so big that it’s pretty expensive and we’re
looking at some ideas of like Mr. Nary said that would make the whole family
involved such as a picnic or something not just a small group of people in the
Christmas party. Those are good suggestions. Anything else Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: Just another thing to add to the Jump Start Program. I know the
universities in the state also have internship programs. When I worked both at U
of I and WSU they had summer internships particular in parks that has been
widely used but in IT and in a lot of different areas. They get college credits so
they do come at a reduced cost on the interim pay. If you consider that program
that’s something, too Will that maybe Pauline can do a little research on.
McCandless: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. McCandless.
McCandless: The Legislature uses them as well. They are not paid but they get
college credits.
Corrie: We have that in the Police Department right now.
De Weerd: That’s great.
Corrie: Okay anything else on Item 3?
Item 4. Discussion of Computer Usage Policy by Stacy Kilchenmann:
Corrie: Okay Stacy Computer Usage Policy.
Kilchenmann: In front of you in the bench is the latest draft of the Computer
Policy. The Engineering, Public Works added some changes after our Thursday
deadline to get it into you. The pages are or the additions are basically just some
other programs that they have that Terry would not be responsible for. We
haven’t numbered this yet but when we number it, we’ll move the definitions to
the front of it and make the changes. Then we made some wording changes that
Will suggested. I brought Terry with me to answer your questions and to kind of
explain what it’s about.
Corrie: Okay Terry.
Paternoster: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council the Computer Usage Policy to
answer any questions I think is basically here to outline some of the different
software and hardware guidelines that we’re trying to implement for the city to
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implement a standardized security for the city and overall just try to standardize
things I think for the city. The policy I guess when I originally researched it was
to look at other policies that other cities were using and try to come up with
certain themes that each one was using and to implement of our city overall I
think this policy will help minimize security risks and liabilities that the city could
potentially face.
Nary: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I read the policy I think it’s really good. I think it has a real good – in
regard to protecting the city and usage. I guess the one thing that’s I guess –
and maybe it’s my pet peeve. In all of these policies, I’ve read the AIC has a
model policy that they propose and we have them at our business as well. I’m
not saying I encourage our employees any of the employees to use it for any
personal business and it clearly says they’re not to be doing that. I guess my pet
peeve has always been is that most of these have somewhat of a zero tolerance
type of language to personal use. I understand that and I understand the reason
for it but I also recognize there are times that there has to be some level of
flexibility. The best example I always use with people is on 9/11 I don’t know that
everybody used the Internet only for personal business or refer from city
business on that day. Those kinds of things happen. I guess I always am
concerned when there’s no language that gives the Department Heads the
discretion to deal with those kinds of problems from a productivity standpoint that
if you have an employee that has used it for a personal use for a single even
versus a continuing problem whether it’s what their accessing those kinds of
things. I guess that would be the only thing to me that at times makes it
somewhat problematic to work through as a policy. You will have employees say
well so and so has used this. I saw them using the Internet to look up a recipe
on their lunch hour, which is probably not as big a deal as somebody who’s
downloading their gambling site that they use during work hours. Those aren’t
the same thing yet the policy tends to treat them very similar. That’s something I
guess to think through and in the policy – I don’t know if there’s an effective way
so I’m not trying to necessarily tell you how to rewrite it. I was looking at it and
thinking there has got to be some level of flexibility that you have to understand.
The Number 1 thing you’re going to look at is not necessarily – you’re going to
look at the productivity and how people are using the programs and the
equipment. I like your language in here especially that says essentially no matter
how you use it you have no expectation of privacy. You have no expectation that
anything that you use the city system for belongs to you. Again, I’m not trying to
encourage people to use it outside of the policy but I also recognize the policy is
only effective is that you can enforce it, make some very realistic -- and tries to
deal with that. That’s the one piece that I don’t have a real good answer to I just
know that sometimes that will end up being a problem in trying to address it from
a disciplinary standpoint or a productivity standpoint or just even as a manager.
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
June 3, 2003
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Kilchenmann: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Nary we tried to address that in the
question and answer period because we did discuss that at length. It’s like you
don’t write a policy that says you absolutely may not use the business telephone
to make any personal calls. We do have a question that says occasionally I
receive an email from a friend that is not business related and we answer the
best rule of thumb is to ask yourself a couple of questions. Is it preventing me
from doing my job, interfering with my work et cetera? We did try to address that
because it’s just – I mean it’s a form of communication like the telephone or if
somebody drops by your office for a few minutes, it’s just not realistic to say you
absolutely cannot use this computer for any personal use.
Nary: Well and you’re absolutely right. I mean I (inaudible) the same. You can’t
really control it if someone sent you a letter at work or calls you on the phone so
it has to be flexible and useable. Like I said I didn’t necessarily think this bad
because I think most of your language is really very good. I think it provides that
and when it got down to the point of when it says business purpose only I’m
always afraid from a management standpoint that you’re going to have
employees saying I saw somebody on Martha Stewart’s web page getting
arrested and that’s not necessarily the problem that you may have to deal with.
Kilchenmann: Exactly
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I guess I do have a question. What I didn’t see in here is do you
leave your computers on overnight. I know in the energy audit and those kinds of
things what was deemed most appropriate. What is the policy on that?
Paternoster: currently we do not really address a policy regarding that but I
guess what my stance would be is that it’s okay to leave your computer on
overnight as long as you log it off for security purposes. I believe it’s not wise to
the city to leave your computer logged in so that you know the custodian or
whoever else might come by could just hop on your computer, access
confidential resources or whatever else might be there. I mean if people turn
them off it’s fine to turn them off. I personally turn my PC off every night before I
go home but then my PC at home I never turn off. I think there’s definitely a
balance. I don’t think there’s any harm of leaving it on as long as it’s logged off.
De Weerd: And do people typically log off is that at least a habit made. When
we went through the energy audit was it suggested that those should be turned
off.
Corrie: That I can’t tell you. They say to turn them off.
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June 3, 2003
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Berg: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council the class that four of us got the
privilege of going to for certification as far as energy usage you use quite a bit of
energy leaving them on all night. They suggested for conservation of energy to
turn them off. I think that’s something you need to address as far as if there’s
anything that maybe hurt technically within the machines. I turn mine off I turn it
back on in the morning. I don’t know.
De Weerd: I think that’s a good habit to get into.
Kilchenmann: Mr. Mayor maybe that’s something that should be addressed in an
energy policy more than in the computer policy.
Nary: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Yes Mr. Nary.
Nary: Yes even if you wanted to put in this policy I mean I think you wouldn’t put
anything much more than employees are encouraged to turn their machines off
at the end of the day unless like Mr. Berg just said the technical. If there’s some
technical reason not to or they’re used for other purposes. I don’t think you want
some rule that says you shall do it but where that’s encouraged, to be done and
for better efficiency it should be done or something like that. I think that’s
probably –
Corrie: Tell them the reason why then most of them will do it.
Nary: Yes I think the monitor too I think most of them will say not only just turn
off the computer but turn off the monitor as well.
Corrie: That I’ve never done.
Nary: Can’t say as I do it every day.
Corrie: I don’t every day.
Bird: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Stacy you have Computer Usage Policy Department of Finance and
Information Technology. That Department of Finance and Information
Technology that’s not what this is for this is city wide so I think it just should City
of Meridian City Computer Usage Policy and left at that.
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June 3, 2003
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Kilchenmann: Yes I understand what you’re saying. That was just a heading
that we have on all of the ones. We can make that more clear.
Bird: Yes I wouldn’t even put –
Kilchenmann: It does sound like it’s just for us.
Bird: -- yes and it’s a citywide policy and we need to make sure that that’s the
deal. I agree with Mr. Nary that we need to have some kind of statement in there
regarding the energy deal about turning off the computers and stuff like that but it
doesn’t have to be – it did prove out to be and it is even though it is energy it’s
still part of this policy. It’s got to be part of this policy.
Corrie: Okay is there anything else? Stacy anything.
Item 5. Information Technology Department Update:
Kilchenmann: Mr. Mayor I did want Terry just to give a quick update to the
Council on where we are with the web page development. I think everyone is
interested in that. Just a little bit about what he’s been doing and what his job is
consisted of and so forth.
Corrie: Okay Terry.
Paternoster: I tried to just write down a couple of notes on some of the bigger
projects that I’ve done over the past six months since I was hired by the city in
addition to the day to day stuff the constantly plagues us. We have set up a
network out at the Wastewater Treatment Plant so that all three of the main
buildings that they actually have staff in are networked together. We’ve installed
a server out there that allows them to share files that manages some of the
computer virus definitions and security for them. One of the other things that
we’ve done is I’ve reconfigured the email server for the city and on each
workstation so that we’re pointing to a more generic mail server so that if we
were ever to abandon our current hosting company it would be a lot easier for us
to quickly change and migrate. I’ve also changed all the passwords to all the
email system so I think I’m the only one who knows anybody’s password within
the whole city so it’s not compilation.
Corrie: Do you have it written down somewhere?
Paternoster: I don’t it’s all up in my mind.
Corrie: Let me suggest you write it down somewhere in case you get killed.
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June 3, 2003
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Paternoster: To address that Mr. Mayor it’s not really necessary to write this
particular password down because if something was to happen to me it can be
changed on the website whether or not I’m around or not. It’s easily changed.
Corrie: Okay you don’t have any passwords that require –
Paternoster: Those are all written down for your suggestion.
Corrie: Okay thank you.
Paternoster: Something else I did was I tried to standardized the purchasing of
hardware and software for the city to try to bring us to one location that we’re
purchasing systems instead of each individual department going off and
acquiring systems that vary in cost. I’ve also added some reconciliation features
to the purchase order software that’s used by each department so that if they can
reconcile the finances numbers so that they can say yes, I’m in agreement with
finance and I understand that. Something else I’ve done is I’ve started to
manage unused computer inventory within the city. That if a department
disposes of a particular piece of equipment if that piece of equipment can be
better used by another department we have been trying to allocate that
equipment to other departments so we can maximize the use of the life of each
piece. I’ve also started a web development committee or at least a web
committee so that we can evaluate the current web site. We’ve already met on
that and have come up with some very good suggestions and are actually
contracting with a company right now to make some modifications that will
improve the overall navigation of our website. It will allow each department to
have a little bit more control over the content that can be put up so that it can be
more useful for the citizens and public. Something else I’m working on right now
is I’m trying to evaluate some different software packages that would allow me to
remotely deploy security patches and fixes to each machine. Something that
consumes a lot of my time when I go out to each machine I’m constantly pulling
down updates to the system so that that way they’re up to date with the latest
security patches and software updates. I’ve found some free applications that
will actually allow me from the server to push those patches out to each machine
so that it can be managed and be of great time savings to me. I think that’s
pretty much it.
Corrie: Council do you have any questions?
De Weerd: No sounds impressive.
Nary: Sounds great.
Corrie: Okay thank you Terry.
Paternoster: Thank you.
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Item 6. Discussion of Speed Limit Changes in Alley Ways from 25 to
15 mph:
Corrie: Now, the discussion of speed limit changes in alley ways from 25 to 15
miles per hour. We have a citizen here. Bill you want to come up to the table too
and you’re up.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor before Stacy leaves we have this calendar and our budget
ththth
workshops are not listed on here. Were they the 14 and 15 of July or 15 and
th
16 have we set those?
thth
Kilchenmann: I think it’s the 15 and the 16. I’ll check the calendar for sure
and email you. We usually do it on a Tuesday and a Wednesday. I’ll email that
to you.
De Weerd: Okay thanks.
Corrie: Yes Valerie. Name and address.
rd
Steinbach: Valerie Steinbach 319 East 3 Street in Meridian, Idaho. You guys
asked me to come back.
Corrie: You’re on.
Steinbach: As Mayor Corrie knows I’ve been dealing with this for quite a few
years. What I would like to see done is the one-way signs put back up in the
alleys. Mr. Nary told me before the start of the meeting that some of the alleys
are not one way in Meridian. Very early spring of 2001 I had came before the
Planning and Zoning with the Highway Department and I was dealing with Ms.
Stiles. I was told that all of the alleys in Old Town are one way, that all of the
alleys in Old Town had signs on them, and that they were all 25 miles an hour.
That’s what I want. I want the alleys to have the one-way signs put back up. I
pull out of my driveway, somebody pulls in, and it’s a nightmare to try to get back
and forth in the alleys. 25 is a joke. As far as I’m concerned 15 is a joke. I leave
rd
between on East 3 between King and Ada. I would invite anybody here to drive
down the alley next to me at 15 miles an hour. I have a fence literally that comes
to the edge of the ally on my property and we have an influx of children again. I
realize that other alleys it does not matter. There is very little traffic down them
but I have two four-plexes behind me, a tri-plex everybody’s alley. At 15 miles an
hour it’s crazy on my alley but whatever I’ll take whatever I can get after the last
three years of trying to deal with this.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
June 3, 2003
Page 14 of 22
De Weerd: ACHD was going to look into this and I think Bruce might have some
answers. Have you talked with anyone at ACHD?
Steinbach: Yes I dealt with Mr. Wasson for three years. I dealt with Ms. Stiles
for two years. I’ve dealt with the place.
De Weerd: I think he might have answers for you tonight or at least comments
do you Bruce?
Corrie: You get to come back.
Steinbach: Okay thank you.
Mills: Good evening Bruce Mills ACHD. I did talk to our traffic division people.
The questions about speed limits in alleys it’s not something that ACHD has
tackled before. We have not posted in the alleys that our traffic engineer is
aware of. He said typically the only time you might consider in something is if
you do get a lot of cut through that could be a situation where you might want to
consider it. He said as far as posting you know deciding city wide that you would
want to go with a 15 mile an hour ordinance or something like that. You certainly
could do something like that. ACHD would not be that interested in signing each
alley. If you were to do something like that we would probably prefer to suggest
it in the entrances to your downtown area that a sign be posted at the major
thorough fairs that would put that alley speed limit on there if you wanted to do it
that way. Again, Terry Little our traffic manager is not aware of any other cites
either that typically post alleys with speed limits. I’m sure that’s not all as the
answer anybody wants to hear but at least it’s been our policy to not do that.
You certainly can look at unique circumstances if you have an alley that for
whatever reason perhaps this women’s alley the way it’s situated and site
distance or whatever. If it becomes a burden for someone to be able to get in
and out of their driveway if it comes off an alley, it’s something that could be done
on a case-by-case basis.
Corrie: So there is no speed limit as such on alleys?
Mills: That’s correct.
Nary: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: There is a speed limit in the alley. What you’re saying is there’s not a sign
posted.
Mills: There’s no postage.
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
June 3, 2003
Page 15 of 22
Nary: But you’re saying what was suggested by Mr. Little or ACHD was doing
this entry type of sign versus speed. Like many (inaudible) 20 unless posted.
That’s something (inaudible) speed limit now is 15 or something like that.
Mills: Rather than trying to do each individual alley.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I think also Christie was going to come back. We were talking at the
time about dust abatement and where we were at in paving the different alley
ways and if there was a plan for this particular one. She was going to bring back
information on that.
Mills: Mr. Mayor and Councilwoman de Weerd. Yes, Christie did check into that.
This particular alley has no immediate plans for paving. We do have an alley
paving program I can’t even tell you the criteria that goes into it. Certainly, the
city can provide input as to which alleys they would like to see done because we
do have a program to try to eventually pave all of those alleys we’re just doing a
rd
few here and there. This particular alley I believe is paved in the middle 3 and
there is gravel on each end then at present time. That was because there was a
development that occurred. I guess the tri-plexes or whatever at one time and
they had to pave the frontage.
Corrie: Okay.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Corrie: Anything else from Bruce.
Bird: Mr. Bird what is our Police Department –
Corrie: Yes I was going to have Bill – I’m curious Bill how do you judge the
speed of an alley unless you’re there will a gun?
Musser: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council at this point the only thing that we
rely upon for speed inside of the alleys was in the existing City Ordinance which
put all the city streets including alleys at 25 miles an hour. If we had a complaint
within an area, where we were sending an officer to work that’s what he would do
is he would be working it with a radar gun. Perhaps even doing a stop watch
zone at it and we would be looking at speeds in excess of 25 miles an hour for
the current enforcement on that. We do have that – that’s currently in the City
Ordinance under Title 7, Chapter 1, Section 6, which puts all city streets and
alleys in a 25. However, through the Traffic Safety Committee it’s an issue that
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
June 3, 2003
Page 16 of 22
we did address in conjunction with the school zone issue that has come up. We
do have a draft ordinance. It’s pretty much ready to go and at the first part, that
we had was fairly simple in reference to alleys. We basically took the alleys out
of Section B on the ordinance I just mentioned 7-1-6 and moved it up to be
included within Park’s, school property and city properties which are all 15 miles
per hour pursuant the City Ordinance. Our proposal through the Traffic Safety
Committee and working in conjunction with our liaison Councilman Nary and with
the Chief of Police, Mike Worley was to move the alleys down to that 15-mile per
hour speed zone under City Ordinance. Then also under Section C we’re
expanding the School Zone Ordinance so that we can get the times of day in
there along with the children are present to increase the infraction on that but it’s
all one ordinance. I believe Allison Tate from the Boise City Attorney’s Office
who is currently working for the Police Department as on of our Prosecutor’s over
there is supposed to be getting some of this information over to our City Attorney
Bill Nichols for his input and review as well. We’re getting down to the wire in
getting this finished up and having line majority to go.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: Captain Musser I appreciate that. I was wandering if maybe your
Traffic Safety Committee could also maybe work in conjunction with ACHD in
determining taking a look. Maybe Planning and Zoning can get you a map of
where our alleys are and kind of work with ACHD to look at those that would be
most appropriate to get on some kind of a paving schedule. I know they’ve been
very good in their dust abatement commitment in paving certain things. If the city
comes up with their own priorities on some of those in looking at if we have a
couple of four-plexes and tri-plexes on alleys that used to just serve single-family
houses that those would pretty much take a little higher priority because of the
extra traffic load on them. I think your committee would be best suited to start
doing that kind of recommendation and working since there is a representative
from ACHD on your committee that that might be something that would be
appropriate for your committee to look at.
Musser: Mr. Mayor and Councilwoman de Weerd, and Members of the Council.
That is something that we have been considering not so much exactly which
ones to pave but our alleys that we currently have in town that get a lot of usage
currently paved and where they also posted with one way signs. The ACHD
representatives we have on the committee Number 1 is Mike Villnave who is I
guess is assigned as our area or city engineer in conjunction with John Wasson.
On of the two or both of them usually appear at the committee and John works a
lot with the residential areas with ACHD. One of the big questions we had that
kind of ties into this was what alleys were one way and which ones were not.
There is no basic history on file with ACHD or with the city as to where those
were say 20 years ago or further back. I do know from prior experience and I
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
June 3, 2003
Page 17 of 22
haven’t been here for (inaudible) 20 years in the City of Meridian that
rdnd
predominately within the downtown core between East 3 to West 2 and from
Broadway on up to Washington most of those alleys did have a one way block
within just those center core areas. That was it and that was to help assist
vehicles making deliveries to businesses and primarily for trash pickup and
delivery so that they had a route that they could run on that. However over time,
because I just had some of the traffic officers out there to do an inventory on
signs they can only find a handful of signs that are currently still up and in place.
Nary: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Yes a lot of them are stolen. Mr. Nary.
Nary: Yes, I think probably Bill along with that sort of targeting like I think Mr.
Mills stated in targeting which alleys maybe that are high traffic uses or as
Council Member de Weerd said you know ones that previously served single-
family homes and now serve duplexes, tri-plexes or apartment complexes for
signage. Obviously there’s a cost associated with that but if you’re going to
inventory them anyway that might be another factor to evaluate for the Traffic
Safety Committee of which ones priority wise maybe needs some signage to
address the problem. I’m thinking the King and Ada Street area probably is one
that might need some signage. The other thing is and you probably knew I was
going to ask this anyway. In the Park’s section, here this one about public parks
I guess I would really like to still address the issue about streets adjacent to
parks. We’re expanding our parks system all the time especially in the north,
we’re doing a lot of streets right adjacent to the parks now, and they have a lot of
traffic going by them. Settler’s – I recognize that some of them are areas that
can’t really be adjusted like Tully. Some of the areas like Chateau and Bear
Creek can be. Parkstone is another one that is a concern and I think it’s – I think
that’s the name of it Parkstone that’s on Ustick that eventually will have a park
adjacent to the streets. I think if we’re going to have a school zone I certainly still
think we need to evaluate whether or not lowering that speed limit adjacent to the
parks at least on the streets that are meeting adjacent to the parks. That again
it’s a signage issue and whether or not by ordinance we should be looking at that
to again provide better safety for the people. I would like them to at least look at
that as a possibility.
Musser: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Nary, and Members of the Council that issues
we have discussed and we looked at. Basically taking my marching orders from
the Chief at this point I’ve been pretty much just waiting for a decision on the
Council in majority as to how they wanted to go and how they wanted to look at it
because if you tell us what you want we’ll put it together for you.
Nary: And I don’t know what the rest of the Council Members think but I have a
real concern when most of the streets that are adjacent to some of our like
neighborhood types of parks are still 25. Especially when you have parked cars
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
June 3, 2003
Page 18 of 22
on both sides of the street I’m always concerned about kids crossing, people
crossing to get to these neighborhood parks. Like I said, I recognize that
something – an area like Tully that’s not really very practical to try to lower the
speed to 15 miles an hour on Linder Road for essentially about a three or two
block portion. I think certainly at Bear Creek and Chateau that certainly –
***End Of Side One***
Nary: -- also Cedar Springs will have a street adjacent to Settler’s Park that will
have some parking I think on one side of the street. Again, I think it’s one of
those areas that at least to me should be looked at as again raising the fines,
lowering the speeds, and then providing some safety for the people trying to get
to the park. We really are encouraging people not just to park right immediately
adjacent or in the parking lot but sometimes they’re parking on the neighborhood
streets and then getting – or encouraging neighbors to walk to the park. Again,
I’m just concerned about the high rate of speed of people going by it. I don’t
know what the rest of the Council thinks I certainly would like to look at that and
look at what the impact that would be on at least the neighborhood types of
parks. Again it’s not real practical with Storey Park I recognize that it’s not real
practical but it probably will be the Kiwanis Park as well. I think that’s in the
middle of the neighborhood. We’ll have a lot of parks that are going to have
streets that are immediately adjacent that are part of the neighborhood that
probably would be more appropriate for a park zone type of speed 15 miles an
hour, higher fines like the school zone same kind of idea.
Musser: I would concur with you on it Councilman Nary however one of the
problems we have is unless we’re there sometimes enforcement doesn’t take
place. One of the other issues we’ve addressed within the Traffic Safety
Committee is how can we present engineering alternatives that would help slow
traffic. Either in use of round abouts, speed humps, off set street alignment any
of those types of things as long as we don’t come into conflict with the Fire
Department and EMS as well who have to take large rigs over those say speed
humps or around islands or anything else like that in the roadway. Those are
concerns that we have been looking at. Also in reference to Chateau up near the
park off of Chateau and Todd Way one the things that John Wasson and Mike
Villnave is they do have some temporary speed humps. They were going to try
those for a short period of time. I don’t know what their target period is on that
but they mentioned they wanted to install those just on a temporary basis to see
what type of an impact it would have on some of the traffic in that area that I
know we are having problems with.
Corrie: Any other questions?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
June 3, 2003
Page 19 of 22
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I guess just a question on the Traffic Safety Committee are you full?
Do you have all of your members? I know Elaine the bus driver Escondido or
Escanado I cannot remember her last name. She had an interest on serving on
there. Do you have vacancies or are you at full membership now.
Musser: Mr. Mayor, Councilwoman de Weerd, and Members of the Council the
Traffic Safety Committee and its entirety is probably something that needs to be
readdressed. The ordinance appears to be a wee bit outdated and not all of our
members are present at this point. We do have some very part time on and off
again participants. One in particular the school district is there with us when they
can be and then other times they are not. We’ve had real good representation
with ACHD as of late. However, some of our at large memberships aren’t
currently filled at this point. One active member that we have she seems to
attend quite often but she’s coming down to the tail end of her appointment
period of this point too. It may be something that we need to sit down and look at
as a city and as the Council and Mayor as the governing body as to whether or
not we need to reevaluate the ordinance to put a little bit more structure into the
Traffic Safety Committee at this point.
De Weerd: Well I know Elaine is at large and she’s the one that did bring the
school safety issue in front of your group and Council. She is a bus driver she’s
out on the road at all times so I think she would be a great asset as an at large
member.
Musser: Councilwoman de Weerd do I understand you say she’s already an at
large member of the committee.
De Weerd: No, she would be a great at large member.
Musser: I would agree with you on that I was just a little bit confused because I
hadn’t received anything of any new members at this point. Certainly, she could
probably submit a letter of interest into the Mayor’s Office for review and
recommendation on that.
De Weerd: Did she?
Corrie: No. We will look into the ordinance as well.
Powell: Mr. Mayor, and Members of the Council I did want to mention that ACHD
is looking at revising their standards and their policy manual regarding alleys.
They are looking for input from the city. It seems like there were some fairly
strong opinions up there. I don’t know if you want to email them to me or if you
want me to set up another Pre-Council Meeting to maybe talk about it or either of
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
June 3, 2003
Page 20 of 22
those neither of those. Do you think you’ve expressed most of your concerns
regarding alleys at this point?
Corrie: Any other concerns at this point. Put them in writing and we’ll get it to
them.
De Weerd: Do you feel comfortable with the conversation you’ve heard or do
you need us to further elaborate. I think we’ve said everything.
Powell: There are just a lot of other issues like whether you can have two alleys
that T into one another. Whether they all have to be one way, the width, and the
amount of paving. There might be a possibility to require like a duplex or a four-
plex wanted to go in that they have to pave that alley and bring that up to
standard. I obviously need to talk with Bill on if that would be possible to do. Mr.
Nichols excuse me. Those are – I can just pursue it on my own. It just seemed
like you had some fairly strong feelings about alleys that I wasn’t aware of so I
wanted to touch base.
Nary: I think we said them.
De Weerd: I think we set them.
Corrie: Well if we want to have a Pre-Council we can do that too if the Council
would like to have some more input.
De Weerd: And I think our resident who lives on an alley might prove as a great
resource for you as well.
Item 7. Discussion of Center Turn Lane Ordinance:
Corrie: Okay anything else Valerie? I’m going to go ahead, ask Bill to give us
that Turn Lane Ordinance even though it’s 7:00, and get that out of the way.
Musser: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council I’ve received a draft that’s been
forwarded over and I believe a copy was routed to our Attorney Bill Nichol for
review. What we’re proposing is an ordinance for a center turn lane restriction.
This would be under 7-1-10 of the Meridian City Ordinance. Basically, the
bottom line is that for center turn lanes in which traffic can enter from either side
of the roadway or direction of travel such as we have down here on Main Street
that we’re restricting vehicle usage of that lane to no more than 100 feet. A
prime example of what we run into on that is sometimes in the morning or even in
the afternoons with the traffic, that we have it will get backed up to the traffic
lights. People will enter into that center turn lane from as far as a block a way.
Say if they’re stopped at Pine they’ll start in down here on say for instance south
of Idaho and they’ll drive the whole length up to Pine in order to make a left hand
turn. That can create problems for people that are properly waiting to be able
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
June 3, 2003
Page 21 of 22
into those left turn areas or for somebody that may be coming out of the alley
near the Nazarene Church area. If they’re turning into that left turn lane area and
suddenly we have a collision, which we have taken a number of reports on.
That’s why we’re proposing the ordinance and I believe as soon as it clears from
our City Attorney that it will be moving onto the Council is my understanding for
their consideration.
Nary: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Far be it for me to not step on toes but with this particular one we hadn’t
discussed a particular protocol when we switched our process a year ago to
having a Police Attorney and a City Attorney. I was the one that forwarded this to
the City Clerk and I don’t recall I don’t think I forwarded it to you Bill if someone
else did. Yes someone else did. It makes no difference to me how the process
works I don’t have any ownership in it so I was part of the problem here. I wasn’t
trying to be a problem of this particular issue. I think you know as long as –
whatever the protocol we want o have because we have police – being the police
liaison we have some police issues that are drafted by the Police Attorney. If the
you and the Council wants we can send them all to Mr. Nichols first and then
have this kind of discussion that’s fine I don’t care. I wasn’t trying to step on
anyone’s toes on this particular one at all.
Corrie: I don’t think you were but I think we can have it – something like this the
Police Attorney can write it up and then the final could go the City Attorney and to
the Council that way we keep it in proper order.
Nary: Sure and I think there’s some collaboration in the (inaudible) Parks
Ordinance where there are going to be some police issues and there will be
some that are not police issues. There will be some collaboration there but again
this wasn’t what I was trying to really make any (inaudible) over. I’ll let you know
when I am.
Corrie: I think Bill this is necessary. I almost got clipped today turning into the
gas station. A car was coming up in that middle lane and as I was starting to
turn, he went by me and we could have had a real good one right there. Bill
you’re okay with this choice.
Nichols: Yes Mr. Mayor and Members of the Council. I appreciate the
clarification on the process because I think I may have deleted the email that had
the attachment of the ordinance. After I look at it and comment back on the
ordinance so we’ll make sure we get it into the typical form with the summary and
the rest of it we’ll be pleased to do that then get it in front of you.
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
June 3, 2003
Page 22 of 22
Corrie: Okay anything else. Okay I will since that was the last one entertain a
motion to close the Pre-Council Meeting.
De Weerd: So moved.
McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Okay motion made and second to close the Pre-Council Meeting. Any
further discussion. All those in favor say aye. Opposed no. Ayes have it. The
Pre-Council Meeting is hereby closed.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 7:07 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
APPROVED:
/ /
ROBERT D. CORRIE, MAYOR DATE
ATTESTED:
WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., CITY CLERK