HomeMy WebLinkAbout2003 01-28
Meridian City Council Meeting January 28, 2003
The Regular Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:04 P.M., on
Tuesday, January 28, 2003, by Mayor Robert Corrie.
Members Present: William Nary, Tammy de Weerd, and Cherie McCandless.
Members Absent: Keith Bird.
Others Present: William Nichols, Brad Hawkins-Clark, Brad Watson, Gary Smith, Ken
Bowers, Mike Worley, Dean Willis and Will Berg
Item 1. Roll call Attendance:
__X Tammy de Weerd _ X__ Bill Nary
__X Cherie McCandless __O_ Keith Bird
___X__ Mayor Robert Corrie
Corrie: I will open the Regular Meeting of the Meridian City Council on Tuesday,
January 28, 2003, at 7:04 P.M. First on the agenda is roll call attendance, please, Mr.
Clerk.
Item 2. Adoption of the Agenda:
Corrie: The second item is adoption of the agenda any additions or corrections to the
agenda?
De Weerd: I have none.
Corrie: Okay then, I will entertain a motion for adoption of the agenda.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I move we adopt the agenda as presented.
McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded to adopt the agenda as presented.
Any further discussion? All in favor say aye. Opposed no? All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT
Item 3. Consent Agenda:
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January 28, 2003
Page 2 of 51
A. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP
02-033
Request for a Conditional Use Permit to open a retail shop
for children’s gently used clothing, toys, etc. in an O-T zone for
Johann and Rachael Kretzschmar
by Johann and Rachael
Kretzschmar – 124 East Pine Street:
B. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: VAR
02-016
Request for a Variance from the Parking Ordinance and
Johann and Rachael Kretzschmar
Landscape Ordinance for by
Johann and Rachael Kretzschmar – 124 East Pine Street:
C. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: RZ 02-
007
Request for a Rezone of 2.83 acres from R-4 to L-O zones for
Meridian First Baptist Church
by Meridian First Baptist Church –
428 and 506 West Pine Avenue:
D. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: RZ 02-
006
Request for a Rezone of 0.85 acres from I-L to O-T zones for
Meridian Head Start
by Friends of Children and Families, Inc. –
321 and 333 West Broadway Avenue:
E. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP
02-037
Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a two classroom
center serving young children and families, and a 400 square foot
Meridian Head Start
community meeting room for by Friends of
Children and Families, Inc. – 321 and 333 West Broadway Avenue:
F. Development Agreement: AZ 01-018
Request for annexation
and zoning of 85.36 acres from RUT to C-C and C-G zones for
El Dorado Subdivision
proposed by W.H. Moore Company –
southwest corner of East Overland Road and South Eagle Road:
G. Schrammeck Easement Addendum, South Slough Sewer
Project:
H. Waterline Easement, Platinum Point Building in Silverstone
Subdivision – Sundance Investments, Inc.:
I. Waterline Easement, Charter High School Medical Arts
Building in Education Campus Subdivision – Joint School
District No. 2:
J. Sanitary Sewer Easement, Charter High School Medical Arts
Building in Education Campus Subdivision – Joint School
District No. 2:
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January 28, 2003
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K. Agreement for Professional Services, Civil Survey Consultants
– ACHD Locust Grove Road (I-84 to Franklin Road):
L. Well No. 14 Piping Modifications Bid Award, Star Construction:
M. Contract for Services, Xerox – City Clerk’s Office Copier:
N. Finance Report:
Corrie: Item Number 3 is the Consent Agenda. Do we have any changes on the
Consent Agenda or any item on the Consent Agenda you would like to have pulled off?
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I move we approve the Consent Agenda and authorize the Mayor to sign
and Clerk attest on any agreements or contracts.
Nary: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded to approve the Consent Agenda.
Any further discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote, Mr. Berg.
Roll Call: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; de Weerd, aye; Bird, absent.
Corrie: All ayes. The Consent Agenda is approved.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT
Item 4. Department Reports
A. Fire Department:
1. Presentation of Award for Service:
Corrie: The next item is Item Number 4, Department Reports. Fire Department, Chief
Bowers.
Bowers: Mayor Corrie and City Council Members, this is kind of a sad time in our -- in
the history of the Meridian Fire Department. We have a firefighter that has put in many,
many years with the Fire Department, has -- out of 35 years with the department he's
probably only missed maybe five nights of training. He's one of the gentlemen that
when I started was able to instruct me in how to drive the fire trucks. I don't know if
that's good or not, but thanks, Bruce, on that part. Also learned how to pump the trucks,
how to park them away from a fire so they don't get blistered and burnt, so right now,
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January 28, 2003
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Mayor Corrie and Madam President de Weerd, would you, please, come forward here?
Would Bruce Stewart please come forward? Bruce, we appreciate everything you have
done for the Meridian Fire Department. This plaque and the key to the City of Meridian
are from the city themselves, the city officials, and the City Council Members. We could
not find a plaque with a beard on it, but we can glue some on or something for you
there. All these firemen out here have trained underneath Bruce in different aspects of
driver's training, pump training, extrication training -- I wouldn't say too much on the
medical end of it, he didn't really like that part of it, but, Bruce, we have got a plaque
here for you and I will have Tammy read it.
De Weerd: Bruce, in appreciation for 35 years of outstanding service to the Meridian
Fire Department from the City of Meridian, 2002.
Stewart: Thank you.
Bowers: And, also, we have a key to the City of Meridian. Mayor Corrie will present
that to you.
Corrie: Bruce, there has only been one of these presented by the Mayor -- since I was
Mayor eight years ago and you are the recipient of the second one so I don't give those
out lightly. I'm glad that -- I talked to Kenny. I'm glad to hear that when the fire truck
had an accident and the door went off, that you weren't the one that trained them on
that part of it. Anyway, congratulations and on behalf of the City of Meridian, I present
you the key to the city and it will fit any door that you want to get into, and if it doesn't,
call me and I will get you in there, okay? Thank you very much.
Stewart: Thank you.
Bowers: The key is a bottle opener. That's pretty fitting, but there is not very many
bottles that need opening anymore, so -- would you stay up here just a second, Bruce.
Also, Mrs. Stewart, would you, please, come forward. Thirty-five years of Bruce missing
anniversaries, missing dinners, missing birthdays, missing Thanksgiving dinners --
Christmas. We have missed Christmases several times on many fires. This is in
appreciation -- our token of appreciation for you and now that Bruce is retired, he can sit
and see how his green thumb does work out there, so thank you. Thanks for all the
firemen for coming down. Bruce needed that support. Thank you. Thank you, Mayor
and Council. Appreciate it.
B. Public Works Department:
1. Agreement for Professional Services, J-U-B Engineers –
Black Cat Sewer and Lift Station:
Corrie: Under Department Reports, Public Works Department.
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Watson: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I'm not quite sure I can follow up as well on this
project. If you have read the memo that I included in your packets, this is the follow-up
to the Ten Mile sewer -- Ten Mile Interchange Sewer Study, if we can get it up there for
you. There we go. You have probably seen this map in various iterations over the last
year, year and a half. Last July we presented an enhancement to provide the design
and easement acquisition for this project. The project would open up roughly 1,200 to
1,400 square miles of -- to development immediately. Acres. Excuse me. It feels like
1,200 square miles. It would also open up to -- the south side of the interstate to
development shortly thereafter, I would presume. This project doesn't include that
crossing yet in this contract. After the budget was approved, we issued requests for
proposals to engineering firms. Most of the ones that you're familiar with did provide us
with proposals. We agonized over that decision for quite some time. There are a lot of
really good proposals. Eventually, we ended up choosing JUB Engineers to negotiate
with because of the scope of this project it's taken us two, three months to iron out
everything that needs to be done on this project. It isn't nearly as simple as just going
out, surveying, and throwing some pipe in the ground. There are -- before I go any
farther, Phil Krischbaum, you're all familiar with his face, he's sitting right here in front of
me and I should make him sit next to me, so that he can absorb some of the questions,
too. If you do have any questions for him, that's why he's here. This project is
composed of four major categories. There are two of them that are fairly straight
forward, the gravity trunk design -- there will be, oh, roughly four miles of sewer line --
gravity sewer to be designed. The second part includes a 9,000 GPM lift station and
another two plus miles of pressure sewer. The third and fourth major task within this
contract are the ones that have proved to be, over the last couple of years, a little more
challenging. The third is -- has to do with easement acquisition. We also will include
with this contract some public involvement aspects through open houses and one-on-
one meetings with developers and property owners in the area. We will also, in addition
to just easement acquisition process, be meeting with those developers who have
options on the land, so that we can coordinate the placement of those easements much
earlier in the process, than we did on, for example, the White Trunk. The fourth and
final major category award in this engineering contract is project financing. The last
rough preliminary cost estimate that I had on this project from Phil was pushing six
million dollars, so we, Public Works, were very interested in looking at some financing
options. The last time we took the I-84 study to Council for final approval, I think in June
of last year, perhaps, Council gave us direction to look at different financing options as
well and that's -- we made a point to include that in this project. The project scope, as
shown on the screen and should be included in the Engineering Agreement that you
have in your packets -- I can zoom in on that if there are any questions about particular
aspects of that project. Shown on the screen, but not in your packets, is a very rough
first attempt to schedule both design and construction. We are looking at several
different bid packages and phasing of the components of this project. Some of it is fairly
easy to get designed and out to bid. The gravity sewer through private property,
obviously, will probably be towards the end, one of the last phases that we do. A couple
more things to point out before I finish here is that I really want to emphasize -- and I did
to Council Member McCandless earlier today. This project is not just going to involve
me, Gary and JUB or even just the Public Works Department, it's going to involve Public
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Works, the Water Department, the Wastewater Department, the Finance Department,
and, hopefully, to some extent, a Council Member or several Council Members when we
start looking at Finance Steering Committees or some of the open house programs that
we hope to do. We have also hoped that Legal Counsel would be available for periodic
meetings when we discuss financing options. This is really a huge project and it's going
to take a lot of effort from more than just Public Works staff and me. The one final thing
that I would like to point out is that this particular item in the budget, in July, was
estimated at the time at 400,000 dollars. The total amount of this particular contract in
front of you is 654,439 dollars. We have added -- the initial estimate that we got was
basically a phone call that I made to an engineer in the community, just based on
footage of pipe. During the two or three months that Phil, Gary and I have worked on
this contract, we have added quite a bit, especially, in the easement acquisition area,
the public involvement, and project financing. In addition to the 254,000 additional that
we would need on this particular project, there is in your packet, I think about three or
four pages back, a summary of all the commitments for the three sewer line extension
budget items. There have been several sewer projects that we did not include in our
sewer line budgeting in July of last year. The total amount that these items combine
need to be amended by is, at very minimum, 433,000, but to cover any other
st
unforeseen projects that we need to do between now and October 1, we would
probably be looking at a budget amendment of 500,000 dollars in the sewer line
extension accounts. I have discussed that with the Finance Department and I'm not
sure if Stacy brought that up earlier during Pre-Council in her finance report or not, but
she and I seem to be in agreement at least, from a staff level, of what we can do here. I
would be happy to answer any questions or if you have any questions for Phil, he's
available, too.
Corrie: Thank you, Brad. Council, questions?
McCandless: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. McCandless.
McCandless: Brad, is the final -- or is that the correct amount of 654,440?
Watson: Council Member McCandless, Mayor and Council Members, I believe it is. My
figure is one dollar off from the one Phil is pointing at on his contract, but, yes, it is.
De Weerd: In whose favor? Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: Brad, on the pump -- or the lift station, is that being incorporated with the
Black Cat the Ashford Greens pump?
Watson: Council Member de Weerd, Mayor and Council Members, this is a separate
sewer service area. This would be serving everything to the south of roughly Cherry
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Lane. Ultimately there will be another sub regional lift station north of Ustick. We had
examined all these various options during that I-84, Ten Mile Interchange Report. This
one turned out to be the most cost effective. I think for constructability reasons it was
also chosen, just because if we put a regional lift station, 9,000 GPM lift station north of
Ustick where it was originally master planned, we tear up everything south through
Turnberry. Through Ashford Greens, through Golfview, everything down through there
as we are putting a 36 inch to 42 inch diameter trunk line down the middle of the road.
We would be replacing the whole road. JUB did do a cost analysis during that
preliminary study, but that's a long answer to your very simple question, no, we are not
doing anything to the Ashford lift station at this time.
De Weerd: I just couldn't remember how it was left after the report that's were originally
made on those options that you presented. I'm glad to hear that you talked with Council
Member McCandless, since I saw she was on your committee.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Brad, could you put that map back up there that you had. Just so I'm clear,
basically, the service area you said is south of Cherry Lane all the way to the freeway or
all the way to Overland?
Watson: Council Member Nary, this particular project, what would be designed within
this agreement, would take it to I-84 and no farther south.
Nary: Okay.
Watson: And that's -- I need to clarify that a little bit. The black lines that you see here
are what will actually be designed. We don't quite make it to I-84, because -- at least
with this current contract, until these developers here can give us some guidance on
what they want to do with their property, we aren't prepared to go any farther. It takes it
to Ten Mile Road just north of I-84.
Nary: Thank you.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: Brad, I thought I remember Gary mentioning last week that we were going
to bore under I-84. This wouldn't be included in this design and those design costs?
Watson: Council Member de Weerd, Mayor and Council Members, that is correct. I
think the ultimate goal was to do that, but we have no idea what is going to happen
down here in this pink area in order to get a contract together and be fair to JUB and
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make sure that we have -- that we know what we want them to do. It's not included in
this existing agreement. Maybe next year, once this developer has a little better idea of
what he wants to do, we may be looking at an addendum to this contract to get that
taken care of. Another one to point out is up here, this -- this is the Pine Avenue area.
Ten Mile Road is here. We have included in this contract at least surveying and
potential design of this spur that comes off this Ten Mile diversion line trunk so that
there are a few unknowns this early in the game, but we need to get going with a
contract based on what we do know today. One other thing to point out real, real quick
is that we probably will, ultimately, be putting water line in these roads, since we are
going to completely destroy them anyway, and get that infrastructure in place. The way
the contract is set up now, JUB would provide surveying and we probably would be
looking at in-house design.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: Is there development just south of that -- that one-foot of Parkside Creek?
Are they going to be participating in some of this or are they sewering into another
system -- or another line?
Watson: Council Member de Weerd, they are using a lift station -- temporary lift station
and I don't remember the condition specifically, but I sure thought we had talked about
them contributing up front to the Black Cat lift station -- the Black Cat Trunk project.
They will, ultimately, come into the spur -- wherever it ultimately ends up, they will come
into that.
De Weerd: I have no further questions.
Corrie: Any questions? All right. Thank you, Brad.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Brad, if I can get the reverse side of the agreement for professional services.
It didn't copy the backside unless Mr. Krischbaum is willing to let it go without that
reverse side of conditions.
Kirschbaum: We can get you a copy.
Watson: Mr. Mayor, I didn't point out to begin with, you have an unsigned agreement in
your packets. The signed ones just came in after I gave these to the City Clerk's Office.
We can certainly get those into the record into your office.
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Corrie: Okay. No other questions, I will entertain a motion on the request for the
agreement for professional services.
McCandless: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. McCandless.
McCandless: I move that we approve the proposed agreement for the professional
services for JUB Engineers for the Black Cat Sewer and Lift Station Project to not to
exceed the amount of 554,440 dollars and authorize the Mayor to sign and the City
Clerk to attest.
Nary: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded. Is there any further discussion?
Hearing none, roll call vote, please, Mr. Berg.
Roll Call: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; de Weerd, aye; Bird, absent.
Corrie: Okay. Motion is approved.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT
Item 5. (Items Moved from Consent Agenda)
Watson: Thank you.
Corrie: Thank you, Brad. Item Number 5 is a -- there was no items moved from the
Consent Agenda.
Item 6. Ordinance No. : ZA 02-002
Request to Amend
Zoning Ordinance 11-9-2, Supplemental Yard and Height Regulations, to
allow architectural encroachments to setbacks in residential developments
Wardle & Associates
by :
Corrie: Therefore, we will move to Item 6, which is an ordinance, Number 03-1001.
This is a request to amend Zoning Ordinance 11-9-2, Supplemental Yard, and Height
Regulations to allow architectural encroachment to setback residential developments by
Wardle & Associates. At this time I would like to have, the City Clerk read Ordinance
Number 03-1001 by title only.
Berg: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council. Ordinance Number 03-1001, an
ordinance of the City of Meridian amending Section 1, Zoning Schedule of bulk and
coverage controls in Section 2-D, supplement yard and height regulation definitions of
Chapter 1 of Title 11, providing for the addition and/or deletion of language pertaining to
the architectural encroachment to setbacks in residential developments of the Meridian
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City Code, providing for conflicts to be repealed, rescinded, and annulled, providing that
-- amenity. Thank you. Providing a savings clause and providing an effective date.
Corrie: All right. You have heard the reading of Ordinance Number 03-1001 by title
only. Is there anyone from the audience that would like to have the ordinance read in its
entirety? Hearing none, I will entertain a motion on the ordinance, please.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I move the approval of Ordinance Number 03-1001, request to amend Zoning
Ordinance 11-9-2, Supplemental Yard and Height Regulations to allow architectural
encroachments and setbacks in residential developments and to waive the reading of
the rules pursuant to the Idaho rules.
McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded. Is there any further discussion?
Hearing none, roll call vote, please.
Roll call: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; de Weerd, aye; Bird, absent.
Corrie: All ayes. One absent. Motion approved.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT
Item 7. Ordinance No. : RZ 02-005
Request for a
Angel Park Development
Rezone of 0.8 acres from L-O to C-G zones for
by Farmers and Merchants State Bank – northwest corner of North
Hickory Way and East Fairview Avenue, west of North Eagle Road:
Corrie: Item Number 7 is an Ordinance Number 03-1002. This is a request for a
rezone of 0.8 acres from L-O to C-G zones for Angel Park Development by Farmers
and Merchants State Bank, northwest corner of North Hickory Way and East Fairview
Avenue, west of North Eagle Road. At this time I would like to have, the City Clerk read
Ordinance Number 03-1002 by title only.
Berg: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council. Ordinance Number 03-1002, an
Ordinance finding that the owner Farmers and Merchants State Bank of certain real
property have made a written request for rezone of the zoning classification for real
property that lies within the boundaries of the City of Meridian from L-O, Limited Office
District -- Zoning District, to C-G, General Retail and Service Commercial District as
defined under Meridian City Code Section 11-7-2K, repealing all ordinances,
resolutions, orders, or parts thereof in conflict herewith, and directing the City Engineer
to add said rezoning designation to the official maps of the City of Meridian, Idaho.
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Corrie: Okay. You have heard the reading of Ordinance Number 03-1002. Is there
anyone that would like to have it read in its entirety? All right. Hearing none, I will
entertain a motion on the ordinance.
McCandless: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. McCandless.
McCandless: I move that we have approved Ordinance Number 03-1002, request for a
rezone of 0.8 acres from L-O to C-G zones for Angel Park Development by Farmers
and Merchants State Bank, northwest corner of North Hickory Way and East Fairview
Avenue, with suspension of rules.
Nary: Second.
Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded to approve Ordinance Number 03-1002
with suspension of rules. Any further discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote, Mr. Berg.
Roll call: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; de Weerd, aye; Bird, absent.
Corrie: Okay. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT
Item 8. Ordinance No. : AZ 01-018
Request for
annexation and zoning of 85.36 acres from RUT to C-C and C-G zones for
El Dorado Subdivision
proposed by W.H. Moore Company – southwest
corner of East Overland Road and South Eagle Road:
Corrie: Item Number 8 is Ordinance Number 03-1003. This is a request for annexation
and zoning of 85.36 acres from RUT to C-C and C-G zones for proposed El Dorado
Subdivision by W.H. Moore Company, southwest corner of East Overland Road and
South Eagle Road. At this time I would like to have the City clerk read Ordinance
Number 03-1003 by title only at this time.
Berg: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council. Ordinance Number 03-1003, an
Ordinance finding that certain land owned by Kimball Properties, Limited Partnership,
managing partner Winston J. Moore, to be known as El Dorado Business Campus,
located at the southwest corner of East Overland Road and South Eagle Road and
which lies contiguous or adjacent to the city limits of the City of Meridian, County of Ada,
State of Idaho, and finding that the owner has made a request for annexation in writing
to the Council and that said land be annexed to the City of Meridian and zoning
designated Community Business District (C-C) and General Retail and Service
Commercial District (C-G) and declaring that said land, by proper legal description,
described below, be a part of the City of Meridian, County of Ada, State of Idaho,
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repealing all ordinances, resolutions, orders, or parts thereof in conflict herewith, and
directing the city engineer to add said property to the official maps of the City of
Meridian, Idaho, and directing the Clerk of the City of Meridian to file a certified copy of
the ordinance and map of the areas to be annexed with the Ada County Recorder,
Auditor, Treasurer, and Assessor, and the State Tax Commission of the State of Idaho,
pursuant to Idaho Code Section 50-223 and Section 63-2215.
Corrie: Okay. You have heard the reading of Ordinance Number 03-1003 by title only.
Is there anyone from the audience that would like to have it read in its entirety? Okay.
Hearing none, Council, I will entertain a motion.
McCandless: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. McCandless.
McCandless: I move that we approve Ordinance Number 03-1003, a request for
annexation and zoning of 85.36 acres from RUT to C-C and C-G zones for the
proposed El Dorado Subdivision by W.H. Moore Company, with suspension of rules.
Nary: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded to approve Ordinance Number 03-
1003 with suspension of rules. Any further discussion? Roll call vote, Mr. Berg.
Roll call: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; de Weerd, aye; Bird, absent.
Corrie: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT
Item 9. FP 02-030
Request for Final Plat approval of 54 building lots and 3 other
Farm Subdivision No.
lots on 17.22 acres in an R-4 zone for Sutherland
1
by Great Sky, Inc. – north of East Victory Road and east of South Eagle
Road:
Corrie: Item Number 9 is a request for a Final Plat approval of 54 building lots and
three other lots on 17.22 acres in an R-4 zone for Sutherland Farms Subdivision No. 1
by Great Sky, Inc., north of East Victory Road and east of South Eagle Road. Brad,
comments?
Hawkins-Clark: Thank you, Mayor, Members of the Council. This is the first phase for
the Final Plat of Sutherland Farms Subdivision. The shaded area there on the right-
hand side is the approved Preliminary Plat boundary of the entire project. What they
have submitted for Final Plat now is this southern portion that takes access off of Victory
Road. Here is a detailed look at the Final Plat that they have submitted. Staff has
reviewed it. It is in substantial compliance with the approved Preliminary Plat. We have
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rd
submitted a staff report dated January 23 by Bruce Freckleton and David McKinnon.
They are proposing -- as you may recall, an eight-foot fence was approved adjacent to
this county lot here on their east boundary to the north and, then, across -- about
halfway across, so the rest of it would be on the perimeter the standard six-foot dog-
eared cedar fencing. They are proposing a split face CMU block wall here in the
Landscape Plan right on Victory Road with the buffer -- landscape buffer lot as shown
here and they are proposing that. This phase has about 3.1 dwelling units per acre in
terms of its density. I think the only item -- other item to point out on our staff report was
that we had started to include on these projects where the Ada County Highway District
-- where they are abutting arterials where ACHD is likely not going to purchase the right
of way. We have -- we have asked for the developer to designate that future right of
way in a common lot. We have included that in our Site-Specific Requirement Number
4 and I think that's all I have to point out on that one.
Corrie: Okay. Thank you, Brad. Council, any questions of Brad?
De Weerd: I have none.
Corrie: Okay. Is the representative from Sutherland Farms here tonight? Would you
like to come up here, we have a couple questions. Do you --
Causlett: Honorable Mayor, City Council, Jim Causlett, JUB.
Corrie: Thank you. Do you have any questions or anything to add to the request?
Causlett: No, not really. We are pretty much conforming to the Preliminary Plat and the
layout and we will go ahead and make a revision to the Final Plat as far as allowing for
the extra right of way that will eventually be dedicated to ACHD. We will go ahead and
have a landscaped area through there, put our sidewalk and all of that into an
easement, so that will take care of that concern.
Corrie: Okay. Council, any questions? Okay. Thank you very much.
Causlett: Thank you very much.
Corrie: Any further discussion? Hearing none, I'll entertain a motion on the request for
Final Plat approval.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I move we approve the request for Final Plat of 54 building lots and three
other lots on 17.22 acres in an R-4 zone for Sutherland Farms Subdivision No. 1 and
ask the attorney to draw up Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision of
Order.
Meridian City Council Meeting
January 28, 2003
Page 14 of 51
Nary: Second.
Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded to approve the request for Final Plat of
Sutherland Farms Subdivision No. 1. Any further discussion? Hearing none, roll call
vote, Mr. Berg.
Roll call: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; de Weerd, aye; Bird, absent.
Corrie: Okay. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT
Item 10. FP 03-001
Request for Final Plat approval of 5 building lots on 6.85 acres
Mallane Subdivision
in L-O and C-G zones for by The Land Group, Inc. –
north of East Fairview Avenue and west of North Eagle Road:
Corrie: Item Number 10 is a request for Final Plat approval of five building lots on 6.85
acres in L-O and C-G zones for Mallane Subdivision by the Land Group, Inc., north of
East Fairview Avenue and west of North Eagle Road. Brad, comments?
Hawkins-Clark: Yes, Mayor, Members of the Council, thank you. We did submit a
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request for this item to be tabled until February 4. We had received detailed civil
drawings for just the center portion there on the screen that is currently the Louie's
Restaurant. The full plat, as you can see, is five lots, not just the lot that Louie's sits on.
In order to give staff adequate time to review more -- the plans that we received late, we
requested that. We did also receive a letter from Mr. Russell Hepworth of the Land
Group and he stated that he was in agreement for that to be tabled.
Corrie: Okay.
Hawkins-Clark: Thank you.
Corrie: Any further questions from Council? Okay. That being the case, the request, I
will entertain a motion on the request to table it.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I would move we table Item -- Item 10, FP 03-001, the request for Final Plat for
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the Mallane Subdivision to our February 4 meeting.
De Weerd: Second.
Meridian City Council Meeting
January 28, 2003
Page 15 of 51
Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded to -- the request to table Item Number 10,
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a Final Plat 03-001, until the February the 4, 2003, meeting. Further discussion? All
those in favor say aye. Opposed no? All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT
Item 11. Continued Public Hearing from December 17, 2002: Comprehensive
Plan Text Amendments regarding Urban Services Policies in the
2002 Comprehensive Plan:
Corrie: Item Number 11 is a continued Public Hearing from December 17, 2002. It's a
Comprehensive Plan text amendment regarding urban service policies in the 2002
Comprehensive Plan. At this time, I will open a continued Public Hearing and invite
staff's comments first.
Hawkins-Clark: Thank you, Mayor, Members of the Council. Staff did submit a memo,
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dated January 23, on this item. You had continued the item at your December 17
meeting, essentially, to allow us time to get this amended policy in front of -- particularly,
the Building Contractors Association, Ada County Association of Realtors, as well as a
few other private parties for their input. I guess I would seek some direction from the
Council tonight as to how you want to -- how you want to proceed. I can highlight some
of the draft policy changes that I did include with that memo for you tonight. If you
would you, prefer to move on, rather than wait for further input from the private industry
groups or probably staff's preference, given that we also have the development there on
South Linder Road by Lee Centers, who is -- presented to the Council last week. I
believe, on a potential development in the area of impact, but outside the city limits --
these are sort of running tandem through the process here in terms of how the city
wants to respond on the request that is likely going to come to us from Ada County
Development Services. Assuming that Mr. Centers moves ahead on the project that he
presented here last week. How the staff and city would respond to that application, you
know, is certainly, in part, tied very much to this policy. Our thought was that the
consideration that is going to be given further on this by both the groups and by staff,
that it may warrant continuing this again to get further input. As I say, you know, we are
prepared to discuss in more detail the specific text amendments that we have included
in the memo tonight.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: In light of maximizing our best using our time, I would like the discussion
when we have all the feedback and comments from the different entities so I would like
to see this continued until we get their responses.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Meridian City Council Meeting
January 28, 2003
Page 16 of 51
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I would also concur. I think there is a lot of good information that you provided,
Brad, and I guess I would like to see the response back -- is there an echo? It's not just
me, then. I was looking at the dates and I saw in the memo that you had prepared that
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the Building Contractors Association Board doesn't meet until February 20, the realtors
thth
meet on January 29, and looking at the calendar, our next meeting after February 20
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is the 25. That might be a little short to actually get -- at least a written response from
the BCA, but it looks like March 4th would be the nearest date after that and we can
certainly do it, then, if everyone is fine with that. I guess I would move that we continue
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this Public Hearing on the Urban Service Policies to our March 4 meeting.
McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded. However, we do have a Public
Hearing. Is there anyone here that wants to issue testimony at this time? Okay. I will
accept the motion.
Nary: Cart before the horse.
Corrie: I'll accept the motion now. Any other discussion?
De Weerd: No.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made to continue this Public Hearing until the February
-- March 4, 2003. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the
motion say aye. Okay. All ayes. It will be continued, the Public Hearing, on March the
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4.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT
Item 12.Continued Public Hearing from January 21, 2003: Amendment to
Meridian City Code 11-15-5, Posting Requirements:
Corrie: Item Number 12 is a continued Public Hearing from January 21, 2003,
Amendment to the Meridian City Code 11-15-5, Posting Requirements. At this time, I
will open the continued Public Hearing and have staff comments first.
Hawkins-Clark: Thank you, Mayor, Members of the Council. The City Council did
request a few changes to this ordinance that deals with how the city is going to require
properties to be posted. It got quite a bit of discussion at your meeting last week and
Dave McKinnon from our staff did prepare an Exhibit A -- an Amended Exhibit A that he
felt incorporated your changes that you were looking for from the Planning and Zoning
Commission. You should have in your packets the new revised exhibit that includes
those. Specifically, the 11 -- Ordinance 11-15-5 is what -- what we are proposing to
amend here and there in Paragraph 1 Page of the exhibit. There is an additional to --
Meridian City Council Meeting
January 28, 2003
Page 17 of 51
up to an additional 300 feet are the -- has been added to -- as a requirement for the
property owners that would also be notified, potentially. Then, if it's justified, the Zoning
Administrator would provide a written explanation to the applicant for why an increased
noticing standards is required and, certainly, this is tied to the larger impact, more
intensity -- heavier intensity subdivisions or commercial developments, et cetera. That
was an addition there to the first paragraph. In Paragraph 2-A-1, where it describes that
we are looking for a four-by-four plywood and, then, mounted on four-by-four posts.
Then, we have added or attached to another staff approved support and I believe that
came from Mr. Berg, our clerk, and just as a consideration there for some of the winter
months or if there are, you know, other ways to mount those, besides just strictly the
four-by-four posts. That basically just gives a little bit more flexibility to staff to work with
the developers on what kind of posting materials can be used. Then, on Page 2 of the
exhibit, there at the top, number two, we have added the words City of Meridian Public
Hearing Notice, just for clarification, and, then, we have also asked for the address and
a city contact phone number. Those are -- those are new so those will also be there on
each sign and posted clearly. Then, in Paragraph C towards the bottom of Page 2
there, we have added the requirement for a picture of the posting to be submitted with
each notarized statement, so that will be submitted to the clerk by the application, so
that -- demonstrating that the property has clearly been posted.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I guess since I was the most persistent person on this particular ordinance, one
other thing I did note in there -- and I didn't notice it last week. I noticed it as I reread it,
I think we have left open at this point, Brad, that neighborhood meetings were at least
optional, unless directed by either the Commission or the Council. What, I guess, I
would prefer to see -- and see what the rest of the Council thinks, -- I have no problem if
we leave that as optional. I guess what the language in here indicates to me is if they
are going to have it, then, I think they have got to give notice. If they are going to opt to
have it or they are directed to have it, the language in here still makes the notice to be
somewhat gray. It says applicant should attempt to notify -- and invite to the meeting all
residents and, I guess, my perspective is if they opt to have it or they are directed to
have it, then, they shall notify all the people that are within 300 feet and they are going
to notify whatever requirements there are. I think the option to have it is fine, but if they
-- but the language, once the ordinance comes back, the language should be reflect that
if they -- if the applicant chooses to have it or is directed to have a neighborhood
meeting, they shall attempt to notify, so instead of it being a should, it should be a shall.
That way it's clear that once they -- once the decision to have a neighborhood meeting
is done, then, they are going to have to do the noticing requirements. That is not
optional so that we can clearly -- you know, so that someone doesn't say that, really, all
it says is it's an option to have it and it's an option to tell people about it and we don't
really want that, so --
Meridian City Council Meeting
January 28, 2003
Page 18 of 51
Hawkins-Clark: Just for clarification, then, we would add during the middle of that
number three, if a neighborhood meeting is held, applicant shall attempt to notify. I
mean shall notify.
Nary: Well, I mean they are attempting to notify, because, obviously, they can't
guarantee delivery and the like. They are -- but they are directed to get the notice, send
it out to them at the 300-foot radius, 300 extra if they are directed to do that, so I mean -
- you know, they shall attempt to notify by this process and the process is mailed notice
and posting and all that stuff. I just didn't want the actual notice to be optional, just that
fact that they are having a meeting at least on the front end it's their option and it may
be directed anyway. I don't think that changes it significantly to start over. Everybody
else okay with that?
McCandless: No problem.
Hawkins-Clark: Another item that I did review here just this afternoon that Dave
McKinnon, who was here last week, said it didn't sound like it was really discussed, is
Paragraph Number 3 on Page 2. The top paragraph, Number 3, I guess it is, where we
say, in lieu of the above conditions, Conditional Use Permit applications for group
childcare homes, annexation, and Preliminary Plat applications. I'd like to suggest that
maybe we add variance in there as well, so that many of our variance applications are
not going to impact -- many of them are -- this is for those that contain less than five
acres of land. I think it may warrant that the variance applications are also not required
to post in the required four-by-four method. It would be childcare homes, variance,
annexation, and Preliminary Plat applications. I just throw that out for discussion by the
Council, I guess, and, then, CUP applications are another one that is not addressed. As
this is written, every single Conditional Use Permit application would be required to post
with this new method. I guess our thinking of staff was that some of those may warrant
-- particularly, the ones that are less than three acres in size, you know, that could be
argued in some three acres in size Conditional Use Permits could be very impactful to a
neighborhood or to an abutting landowner. Conditional Use Permits was another one
that we had talked about maybe adding in there for the three acres or less not requiring
them.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Is that just -- that's just for the signage requirements? That's not the mailed
notice requirement?
Hawkins-Clark: That's correct.
Nary: Right. It's just to have -- so they can have a smaller sign, not quite so large?
Hawkins-Clark: That's correct.
Meridian City Council Meeting
January 28, 2003
Page 19 of 51
Nary: Okay so, the group childcare homes would still have to send radius notices?
Okay.
Hawkins-Clark: And they would, actually, still have to post the property.
Nary: Right.
Hawkins-Clark: But just with a smaller 11-by-17 --
Nary: Okay. I guess the hard part I would have on the CUP is the ones, I guess, that
we see a lot of, are -- and what's on here tonight, is a drive-thru. A lot of -- sometimes
those are significantly smaller than three acres, but, yet, it's a commercial site, it may
have a lot of impact on abutting neighbors. I don't think it's that onerous to have a large
sign, so I guess it's kind of hard to -- I mean, you know. I guess I would rather -- I would
rather try to come up with -- not necessarily tonight, but come up with something to
allow the staff or the director or someone else to make that judgment, but have some
criteria in which to do that one. It's probably adequate to have smaller signage, like
what went into these decisions, rather than just making it a blanket three acres or less,
because many commercial sites are less than -- well, not many, but lots of them are
less than three acres. They may have a fairly significant impact that signage might be
really significantly needed. I guess that's the only thing that would be concerning to me.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I would agree with that. I don't know if it's considered a substantial change
that it would need to be considered when we take the other changes back through the
process to be suggested that. A CUP is really designed for those special and high
impact type of applications, I would agree that those should not be in here, but
variances, I don't see why not.
Nary: Yes. I don't have a problem with variances, including that, but I guess I would
like a little more discussion about the CUP one and maybe some criteria to allow the
staff to make that call, but not as a blanket thing.
Corrie: Okay. All right. Since this is a continued Public Hearing, is there anyone from
the audience that would like to issue testimony at this time? Raise your right hand,
please. Is the testimony you are about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
the truth, so help you God?
Fluke: It is.
Corrie: Name and address, please, for the record.
Meridian City Council Meeting
January 28, 2003
Page 20 of 51
Fluke: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, Daren Fluke, JUB Engineers, 250 South
Beachwood. This is the first I have heard of this proposed amendment, so I hope my
ignorance isn't too glaring. I would just like to throw this out for your consideration. It
seems to me -- and I have had this thought for awhile on the various government
agencies that I deal with, that it's really the government's responsibility to notify the
public of this. If it's in the public interest, and I think what you should do is that the city
should actually be posting the site. You can post it however you want, then, we don't
have to go through the rigmarole of photographing it and having, you know, a notarized
statement that we did it, you can tack on a little bit extra on every application to cover
the cost of it and, then, there is no question. We don't get in this problem of continuing
hearings, because the site was inadvertently not posted or posted late. Neighbors
come up and say that it wasn't posted when it was, but the signs have been removed by
somebody or, you know, the wind blew them down or whatever. Many government
agencies just do it themselves and pass the cost onto the applicants and I think -- I can't
speak for the entire development community, but I know from the consultant's viewpoint,
it would make our life easier and it just seems to make more sense to me that the city
should be doing those postings.
Corrie: Okay. Any questions?
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Yes. I guess maybe I don't really have a question. I just don't think we have the
staff to do it. I mean I don't disagree with what you're saying. In Boise I know that's,
eventually, what happened, is that they -- they post them for that -- exactly the reason
you're saying, although I don't necessarily agree with your statement that it is only our
responsibility. I think it's the landowner's responsibility equally, but besides that, I don't
think we have the staff. I think, eventually, that probably would be the most reasonable
way to do it, we just don't have the ability to do that yet, but --
Fluke: Well, I offer it up for your consideration. Certainly, it's a cost you can pass on.
Your application fees are not inordinately large compared to other jurisdictions and so
it's really a matter of just doing the numbers and seeing what it costs to do it and
building that cost in.
Corrie: Okay. Thank you. Is there anyone else from the public that would like to issue
testimony? Okay. Council, any further discussion? Want to close the hearing, see
what direction you want to --
Nary: Yes. I guess I would move that we close the Public Hearing.
McCandless: Second.
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January 28, 2003
Page 21 of 51
Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded to close the Public Hearing. Any further
discussion? All those in favor of the motion say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT
Corrie: Discussion?
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Mr. Mayor, I think I -- I can't remember, do we do a motion to have this brought
back in the form of an ordinance -- what I would -- I guess I would move that we have
this 11-15-5 brought back in the form of an ordinance with the changes only being that
in Section 2, Subsection 3. That it also include as -- in the section that begins with
Comprehensive Plan amendment application, that it also allow for variances for parcels
of land less than three acres in size can be included in that section that, basically, can
have a smaller signage. That in the neighborhood meeting, Section Sub 3, that it
indicate that if neighbor meetings are to be held, that the applicant shall attempt to notify
and invite to the meeting all residents. Then, so on from there, that once they have
opted or been directed to have a neighborhood meeting, they will be obligated to follow
the noticing requirements and if Council could return that to us two, three weeks,
whatever timing is appropriate.
De Weerd: Second.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Nary, in your motion you said shall attempt to notify
and the way I would propose to do it is say send notice to.
Nary: Certainly.
Nichols: So that it's clear that by either delivering or mailing the notices, they have
satisfied that condition.
Nary: That's, I think, acceptable. I would include that as part of the motion.
De Weerd: I would agree.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded. Is there any further discussion?
Hearing none, roll call vote, Mr. Berg.
Roll call: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; de Weerd, aye; Bird, absent.
Meridian City Council Meeting
January 28, 2003
Page 22 of 51
Corrie: Okay. All ayes. Motion is approved.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT
Item 13.Public Hearing: CUP 02-043
Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a
Planned Development for drive-thru facilities on pre-approved bank in a C-
Albertson’s Employees’ Federal Credit Union
C zone on 0.89 acres for
by Albertson’s Employees’ Federal Credit Union – south of East Overland
Road and east of South Eagle Road:
Corrie: Item Number 13 is a Public Hearing. This is a request for a Conditional Use
Permit for a planned development for drive-thru facilities on a pre-approved bank in a C-
C zone on 0.89 acres for an Albertson's Employees' Federal Credit Union by Albertson's
Employees' Federal Credit Union, south of East Overland Road and east of South Eagle
Road. At this time, I will open the Public Hearing on this request for a Conditional Use
Permit and invite staff's comments first.
Hawkins-Clark: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council. Before I give the staff
report, I was wondering if we could get confirmation from the Clerk that, we did have
these notices that were resent -- at the Planning and Zoning Commission Hearing.
There was, I think, about four or five properties that were not notified on the north side
of Overland here and I believe that the new mailing was sent to the corrected list. We
did prepare a corrected list that our department forwarded to the clerk. I just wanted to
make sure that that was done. Assuming that it was, the Planning and Zoning
Commission did recommend approval of the Conditional Use Permit. It's this northwest
corner of Silverstone Subdivision is the lot that we are talking about. It is zoned C-C.
The proposal is to construct a credit union. The Conditional Use Permit was required
due to the drive-thru. The site plan is here on the left-hand side of the screen. The
traffic movement would move around here on the north side and down. There are three
drive-thru tellers and, then, there is a through lane here on the west boundary. The
main entrance is here on the -- sort of center of the lot. The elevations are here. On
the right-hand side -- there was a -- there was a modification -- a slight modification that
was made to bring down some of the wainscoting here on the elevation to make it -- to
drop it down to about three-foot in height. The conditions that staff recommended there
are included in the recommendation to you from Planning and Zoning Commission.
There are just a couple of modifications that we asked for on their Landscape Plan and I
believe the applicant is in agreement with those changes. Otherwise, they have
changed to their stalls -- their parking stalls are reflective by our 9-by-19 standards. The
first plan that came through they had smaller stalls. They did change those and this
plan that is here on the screen that you have in your packets is correct, so -- so, staff,
Planning, and Zoning Commission do recommend approval with the conditions that you
have.
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January 28, 2003
Page 23 of 51
Corrie: Thank you, Brad. Council, any questions? Okay. Is the representative for the
Albertson's Employees' Credit Union -- is the testimony you are about to give the truth,
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Huse: It is.
Corrie: Thank you. Name and address, please.
Huse: Casey Huse, representing Lombard-Conrad Architects, Albertson's Employees'
Federal Credit Union, 1231 Shoreline Lane, Boise, Idaho. Mayor and Council, we agree
to the conditions as presented by the Planning and Zoning Commission and have
planned for the compliance. I have spoken with a representative of the finance
company, who is the landowner of record and they own that subdivision, that business
park subdivision where one of the addresses that was -- received the new notice, so
that has been mailed out. I confirmed that with them earlier this week. Beyond that,
everything is in compliance and we have no concern.
Corrie: Questions, Council? Okay. Thank you. Anyone else from the public like to
issue testimony? Okay. Hearing none --
Nichols: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Brad, if I could get the date of that latest plan, make sure that I have got it
reflected in my notes.
Hawkins-Clark: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Nichols, the plan is received stamped by
the City Clerk's office January 17 and dated the same. Well, I'm sorry, it is, actually,
dated January 17, '02, on the plan itself. I think that should be '03.
Corrie: Okay. Council, do you have any other questions on the Public Hearing? I'll
entertain a motion to close the Public Hearing.
De Weerd: So moved.
Nary: Second.
Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded to close the Public Hearing on
Albertson's Employees' Federal Credit Union request for a Conditional Use Permit. All
those in favor say aye. Opposed no? All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT
Corrie: Further discussion?
Meridian City Council Meeting
January 28, 2003
Page 24 of 51
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I move we approve the request for CUP 02-043, request for Conditional Use
Permit for a Planned Unit Development -- or, sorry, a Planned Development for drive-
thru facilities on a pre-approved bank in a C-C zone on .89 acres for Albertson's
Employees' Federal Credit Union. Ask the attorney to draw up Findings of Facts and
Conclusions of Law and Decision of Order.
McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded to approve the request for Conditional
Use Permit. Any further discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote, Mr. Berg.
Roll call: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; de Weerd, aye; Bird, absent.
Corrie: Okay. All ayes. Motion is carried, approve the request for a Conditional Use
Permit.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT
Item 14. Public Hearing: CUP 02-042
Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a
drive-thru window for a coffee and ice cream shop in a C-N zone in the
Linder Crossing
retail center by Stubblefield Development Company –
southeast corner of West Cherry Lane and North Linder Road:
Corrie: Item Number 14 is a Public Hearing. This is a request for a Conditional Use
Permit for a drive-thru window for a coffee and ice cream shop in a C-N zone in the
Linder Crossing retail center by Stubblefield Development Corporation, southeast
corner of West Cherry Lane and North Linder Road. At this time, I will open the Public
Hearing and invite staff's comments first.
Hawkins-Clark: Thank you, Mayor, Members of the Council. The request before you is
for another drive-thru facility here at the southeast corner of Cherry and Linder Road. If
you have driven out there, you have seen that there is -- here is an aerial shot, but here
is a site photo of the building that is under construction. It's a 14,880 square foot multi-
tenant building that was approved through the standard certificate of zoning compliance
process at staff level. This building itself did not come through Planning and Zoning
Commission or City Council, but they are required to for the drive-thru. This shot is
looking from Cherry south and this is the east end of the building. They have already
constructed a window. They do have a drive-thru lane that's constructed here with the
six-inch median there. There is an existing CMU block wall that is along the entire
south side of this parcel. There is approximately 100 feet, just FYI, looking at this photo
from the window to the nearest residential house. Here is a copy of the site plan,
generally, as it's constructed on site. Again, we are talking about this east end of the
Meridian City Council Meeting
January 28, 2003
Page 25 of 51
building. Here is Cherry Lane on the top of the slide and there is stacking here on the
right-hand side that you can see where they are proposing for the lane to be. The
Planning and Zoning Commission did suggest -- make several recommendations to the
Council and those are listed there on Page 2 of the recommendations. One of those is
that they recommend that directional signage be provided for the drive-thru at the
Cherry Lane entrance that directs traffic around the building to enter the drive-thru
appropriately. Certainly, an argument could be made that the drive-thru is more
appropriate at this other end to accommodate the Linder traffic and allow some of the
other traffic off of Cherry to come in. ACHD did not grant an access on Cherry, except
for this single point here on their east boundary, but there is just other elements of the
way that this building is situated it doesn't allow the traffic movement to work on that
end, so that's why they proposed it down here on the east so, directional signage would
be added. They also recommended that the drive-thru speakers not exceed 55 decibels
as measured here at the property line and the city does, in terms of -- if you're
wondering about enforcement of that, there is the capacity to go out and actually, you
know, take a reading on site, should it come to that point. They have made a special
recommendation to the applicant to attempt to find a directional speaker, which would
gear the sound targeted more directly to the east and help to reduce some of the
southern -- southern sound influence. Signage shall be added near the southeast
corner of the building as well, requesting that the neighbors -- or requesting that patrons
be courteous to the neighbors, so that would an additional sign that would be put kind of
right here in this area where the -- where the speaker is for the orders off the menu
board. For additional buffering, they did recommend that evergreen trees, rather than
deciduous trees, be placed here in this southeast corner of the buffer, as well as one
additional tree next to the trash enclosure. Also, we had some concerns about stacking
depth. As shown here, there are just three cars that would stack. Typically, we like to
see, you know, at least a stacking depth of five, so we have recommended that this
parking space here be eliminated and the planter extended, so that should traffic -- the
stacking back up, it gives a little bit more freedom there. Our other conditions that are in
the recommendation are fairly common. There was limitation on the hours of operation
from 6:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m., Sunday through Thursday, and 6:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. on
Fridays and Saturdays. With that, I will stand for any questions.
Corrie: Council, any questions?
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: Brad, just with the elimination of the one parking spot, they will still have a
sufficient number of parking?
Hawkins-Clark: Yes, they will. They are over-parked as it's currently shown.
De Weerd: Okay.
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January 28, 2003
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Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Brad, I heard you say that the distance from the window to -- was it the house or
the fence was the 100-foot amount?
Hawkins-Clark: I believe it was to the house itself.
Nary: The house itself? From the edge of the building, though, where that stacking
depth is three cars or possibly four, how far back was that window -- how far is the edge
of the building where cars are going to be -- it looked like another 30 feet, maybe so
they are about 30 feet closer?
Hawkins-Clark: Right. Well, the landscape buffer is 20 itself and, then, you have a
drive aisle that is 25 feet, so it's 45 feet there, and, then, you know, an average depth of
a stall is 18 to 19, so, you know, up to the corner you're looking at a little over 60 -- a
little above 60 feet. So -- and, of course, it's impossible for us to tell in reviewing these
plans on what, at this point, you know, the stacking will be and, certainly, it's not out of
the question that there would be cars idling here in the drive aisle, but the window itself
is here on the north end.
Nary: Do you have any idea distance wise if that's the same or more as the -- where
the Shell station is, Hark's Corner, is that -- that drive-thru drive aisle is on the rear of
the building adjacent to residential, so similar to this. Do you have any idea if it -- it
seems like that's about the same distance in my mind, but I don't know that? Do you
know?
Hawkins-Clark: I'm sorry, I don't know off the top of my head. I mean it's reasonably
close. The buffer distance would be the same. I believe they did have a one-foot taller
block wall with Linder and possibly two-foot. They had an extra tall sound wall behind --
behind Mr. Hess's project -- Van Hess's project.
Nary: It seemed like it's about the same distance. I was just curious. Thank you.
Corrie: Any other questions? Okay. Applicant? I know they are here tonight. If you
would like to come up and say a few words and answer a couple questions. Is the
testimony you are about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so
help you God?
Stubblefield: It is.
Corrie: Name and address, please.
Stubblefield: My name is John Stubblefield, 641 Franklin, Meridian. Mr. Mayor, Ladies,
and Gentlemen of the Council, we would -- we concur with all of the Planning and
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January 28, 2003
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Zoning recommendations and support them. We would, however, ask your
reconsideration on Item Number 5. Okay? Now, I apologize to Brad Hawkins-Clark,
because I have not discussed this with him. I think it was something called the Super
Bowl that's gotten in the way of my -- getting all my work done. We support the
elimination of the parking space. We are over parked. I think we are required to have
75 or 78 spaces and I think we have 102 so we are well over parked on the thing. We
weren't required to put the block wall at the back and we have gone ahead and put the
block wall. On the back of the building itself, you know, we weren't required to raise a
parapet wall, but we have got ahead and done that in consideration of the
neighborhood, because we -- you know, we support this neighborhood. I mean we build
houses. They are our neighbors. What I would simply request is rather than extending
the landscaped area into that parking area, we are happy to eliminate it. I'd like to block
it out, put a no parking stall, we support the extra stacking for cars that go in there, it's
just -- very simply, if I'm required to extend the landscape buffer area, that means I have
to go in there and saw cut out the asphalt that's already there and extend the landscape
area over. If it's possible for us to -- I think we can accomplish the same thing by
blocking out the space -- do you all see where I'm talking about? You know, we can go
in there, I can block that out, I can put a no parking and we can accomplish the same
thing with just -- without saw cutting and all of that. Other than that, we support
Planning and Zoning recommendations. We are happy to put in the extra trees on the
south and I think that's it.
Corrie: Okay.
Stubblefield: Thank you.
Corrie: Questions of John?
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Mr. Stubblefield, so, basically, what you want to do -- where that space was is
simply just paint it, so it's not -- about right here?
Stubblefield: That's right. Just paint it. I'd recommend -- you know, you have seen
loading zones --
Nary: Sure.
Stubblefield: We can stripe it. We can put a no parking space there, we can totally, --
we can accomplish the same thing without going in and saw cutting the asphalt out and
extending the landscape.
Nary: What about even just blocking it off? I mean --
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January 28, 2003
Page 28 of 51
Stubblefield: I would be --
Nary: An above-ground planter, not necessarily --
Stubblefield: I have even thought about that.
Nary: Something like that. Because I thought that's what their intent was, so it wasn't --
so it wasn't going to be used and I don't know if painting might be enough, but even just
a planter that went across that. Is that --
Stubblefield: We are supportive of the intent.
Nary: Okay. Now, Brad, was that -- is that what the intent was? That's what it
appeared to be. The Planning and Zoning Commission just didn't want someone
parking in there, employee parking, or something and just painting it might not be
enough, but does it matter whether they put a planter there or, you know, redo the
whole corner?
Corrie: Concrete barrier right there.
De Weerd: A curbing.
Stubblefield: We could extend the curbing around.
Hawkins-Clark: You know, it's -- I think whatever accomplishes the goal of not trapping
somebody who might have parked there and they have four or five cars that are backed
up and they can't get out. I guess I wouldn't -- I'd recommend maybe the curbing or the
-- you know, the heavy planter idea, rather than just the striped --
Stubblefield: We support that.
Corrie: We don't want to see any road rage. Any other questions?
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: And, Mr. Stubblefield, I noticed in here that they had limited it to this -- this type of
use for the drive-thru, coffee and ice cream or something like that and that was no
problem not having a food outlet or anything like that?
Stubblefield: No and I support the concept that if we change the use, if it becomes a
heavier use, that we come back in front of you to discuss it.
Nary: Okay.
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January 28, 2003
Page 29 of 51
Corrie: Thank you, John. Is there anyone else from the public that would like to issue
testimony? Okay. Thank you. Council, questions in the Public Hearing?
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I move we close the Public Hearing.
McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded to close the Public Hearing on Item
Number CUP 02-042, Conditional Use Permit for Linder Crossing. All those in favor say
aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT
Corrie: Any further discussion? Okay. Hearing none, I'll entertain a motion on the
request.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I move we approve CUP 02-042, request for a Conditional Use Permit for a
drive-thru window for a coffee and ice cream shop in a C-N zone in the Linder Crossing
retail center. To include, in Item Number 5, that the parking space shall be blocked off
with either a concrete curbing or landscape concrete planter and to ask the attorney to
draw up Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision of Order.
Nary: Second.
Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded for approval of the request for a
Conditional Use Permit. Any further discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote, Mr. Berg.
Roll call: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; de Weerd, aye; Bird, absent.
Corrie: Okay. Motion to approve is approved.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT
Item 15. Public Hearing: CUP 02-044
Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a
Muggsy’s Bar & Grill
sports bar and grill in a C-G zone for by Michael
McGuinness – south of East Fairview Avenue, east of North Locust Grove
Road on East Wilson Lane:
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January 28, 2003
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Corrie: Item Number 15 is a Public Hearing, a request for a Conditional Use Permit for
a sports bar and grill in a C-G zone for Muggsy's Bar and Grill by Michael McGuinness,
south of East Fairview Avenue, east of North Locust Grove Road, on East Wilson Lane.
I will open the Public Hearing and invite staff comments first.
Hawkins-Clark: Thank you, Mayor, Members of the Council. The subject lot is outlined
on the screen here. Wilson Lane abuts the south side of the property. Locust Grove
Road is here. The existing Eddy's Bakery is on this lot immediately to the west.
Hollywood Video and Wingers are north. The property is annexed. It's zoned C-G. It
does allow for the -- the proposed sports bar and grill with the Conditional Use, so that
is the reason for the Conditional Use Permit here. The Planning and Zoning
Commission did review and recommend approval of it. The aerial photo is here. The
Council, as you may recall, did have some discussion on this same lot a few months
ago. There was a sign variance request. There has been some difficulty in the lot sale,
as I understand it, because of some visibility problems. There is some visibility
diagonally here from the intersection of Fairview and Locust Grove and, then, as you
can see some through the -- between Hollywood Video and Wingers there is some
visibility here. Just keep that in mind and I will show you the elevations here in a
minute. Here is the site looking east from Locust Grove Road and, then, looking south -
- south from Fairview. There is the real estate sign there looking through the parking lot
that's currently built. The site plan -- they have proposed the building basically to have
a north-south orientation. They do have a landscape buffer on Wilson Lane. They have
the single point of access into the property here on the east. D&B Supply is over here
and they have a -- sort of a rear access off of Wilson Lane here on this boundary, so the
applicant is proposing to add some landscaping here on that boundary. The elevation
there that would face Fairview is on the top of the screen and, then, the entrance
coming in off of the parking lot is here in the middle that they have, so this would be
facing east. The Planning and Zoning Commission more or less adopted staff's
recommended conditions. The lighting and signage is all standard requirements there.
They will have to obtain a Certificate of Zoning Compliance through the department
before construction, but other than that, the parking standards, and other layout does
meet the city ordinance. They have got -- they have got an access road here on the
north. They are proposing to leave a crushed rock material here on the backside of the
building between them and Eddy's Bakery. The landscape ordinance doesn't require
any landscape buffers between two commercial properties that abut each other. The
Commission agreed with the proposal to allow just the sort of crushed rock back here as
a separation and sort of drainage area. I think that's all I have to point out on that
application.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: Brad, on the crushed rock, does the landscape ordinance allow crushed
rock?
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January 28, 2003
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Hawkins-Clark: We do not allow it in required landscape areas, but this is not one of
those. This is simply an area that is within -- you know, on the property that is not
adjacent to a right of way. It's in between two commercial buildings. The landscape
ordinance is silent on this particular arrangement.
De Weerd: But that area would be for drainage and not for driving over or any --
Hawkins-Clark: That's correct. That's correct and certainly -- I mean as a Conditional
Use Permit, should the Council desire, I mean landscaping can be discussed. As an
ordinance, we cannot require it at the staff level, but since it's a Conditional Use Permit,
that's there for discussion.
De Weerd: Is it designed as a drainage area, though?
Hawkins-Clark: Just to check the plans. I believe it is. Councilwoman de Weerd, I
guess the plan actually doesn't -- I don't have a civil drawing and it doesn't -- it doesn't
say on the site plan drainage, but they don't -- I don't believe that they are using the
swales and -- just consult with Public Works here. Possibly, we could just get that from
the applicant, see what their intent is for that, but the site plan submitted doesn't call out
where their drainage swales will be or their run off treatment.
De Weerd: Okay. Thanks, Brad.
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Brad, on the other side -- on the Eddy's Bakery side, what's up to the property
line there? Is it grass?
Hawkins-Clark: No. I believe that is just the end of Eddy's building with --
De Weerd: With asphalt.
Hawkins-Clark: With asphalt. Yes. Well, you can kind of see from the aerial photo
here Eddy's Bakery parking lot is here. Actually, it does not appear to be asphalt here
on the south end of Eddy's. They do have an asphalt drive, you know, right along their
south boundary, but --
Nary: Thank you.
Corrie: Okay. This is a Public Hearing. Is the applicant here this evening? Is the
testimony you are about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so
help you God?
McGuinness: Yes, it is, Mr. Mayor.
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January 28, 2003
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Corrie: Name and address, please.
McGuinness: Mike McGuinness, 3872 Bunchberry Way, Boise, Idaho. Hopefully, I
have found a place that will be all right. Well, hopefully, I have found a place that will
suit the City Council this time. I have changed the name. I have added a kitchen. Not
within 300 feet of a church. As far as the dancers go, I know this is always an issue, the
-- Chapter 10 of the city code -- the only way you can have dancers in a nightclub is to
be in an industrial area with a Conditional Use Permit. I'm not in an industrial area and I
haven't sought a Conditional Use Permit, so I don't have any intention to do so and
that's all I have to say at this time.
Corrie: You don't want to just serve Coke, either, do you?
McGuinness: I don't want to just serve Coke, no.
Corrie: Okay and you agree to other -- what the Planning and Zoning did?
McGuinness: Yes. Yes and you asked about Eddy's Bakery -- and that's just grown up
brush that abuts up to that property line. It's nothing that they manage or they do
anything with.
Corrie: Okay. Any questions?
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Mr. McGuinness, I really appreciate you bringing back this application in this
form. I think you have done a whole lot to make it a much more attractive project for the
city and I appreciate you doing that. I am concerned about -- I'm bothered that Eddy's
Bakery only has a dirt lot next to them. That doesn't necessarily mean that I really want
to have another dirt lot on your side of the building or your side of the property line
either. I'm concerned about not just the fact that it would -- it may get used for parking
and driving on if it's dirt, but also the -- that dust. The dirt ends up on the street, it ends
up blowing in the air, it ends up being more of a problem and I guess that -- I'm
concerned as to why just having crushed rock there, other than the expense, is a better
look for this restaurant bar.
McGuinness: I -- you know, I had nothing to do with that. That was the architect's
design. I just had him draw something up and that's what he threw in there. I don't --
Nary: But now it's your building and I know it's your money. I'm just -- I'm just bothered
of having that look of -- having what sounds to me like a pretty nice facility and, then,
the most visible part of the public passing by that has -- I don't know, a 25-foot wide dirt
strip next to this building that is here. Part of it may abut a parking lot of Eddy's and part
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January 28, 2003
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of it may abut this sort of open space on the Eddy's side of the property line. I'm just
concerned of perpetuating this problem that we have of having dirt lots and vacancies
and keeping down weeds and keeping down the look of them and I guess I'm just a little
bit bothered and concerned about having it look like that. I mean don't you think that's
going to detract from your business having just this rock pile next to it?
McGuinness: Well, what do you suggest? I mean I'm open for suggestions, whatever --
Nary: Trees. Grass. Maybe -- something. I mean some sort of landscaping. It doesn't
have to be extensive, but I'm just concerned of just having a pile of rock next to your
building isn't going to look very good and it isn't really drainage, so it's not really
designed that way.
McGuinness: Well, I'll tell you what, I'll make a deal with you, you approve it and I'll put
in there whatever your heart desires.
Nary: Oh, whatever we desire. Well, that's a whole lot better. I like that. It's too skinny
for a city hall. I don't think we can get that in there, so -- I mean I guess that's all I would
say, is I just think --
McGuinness: We can landscape it.
Nary: Landscaping, grass, trees, something like that, that would, again, provide a much
better visual look, get the dirt and rocks of that area, and provide not only an
enhancement to your property, you know, again, I think it makes the whole area look
better and, again, it wouldn't have a whole lot of dirt and such in the street.
McGuinness: Sure.
Corrie: If you have no objections, you can make it a condition to put it in there and be
on the record and they can go with it. Any other questions? Okay. Thank you.
McGuinness: Thank you.
Corrie: Any other people or persons like to add testimony in this case? Okay. Hearing
none, Council, pleasure on the Public Hearing.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: Now that Councilman Nary took up my issue, I will propose we close the
Public Hearing.
McCandless: Second.
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January 28, 2003
Page 34 of 51
Nary: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded to close the Public Hearing. All in
favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT
Corrie: Discussion? Hearing none, I will entertain a motion, then, for the request for the
Conditional Use Permit.
Nary: Mr. Mayor, I move the approval of CUP 02-044, the request for a Conditional Use
Permit for a sports bar and grill in a C-G zone for Muggsy's Bar and Grill by Michael
McGuinness, south of East Fairview Avenue, east of North Locust Grove, on East
Wilson Lane. Pursuant to all staff comments and to also include as Site-Specific
Requirements Number -- I guess 12, that a landscape buffer be placed on the -- a
Landscape Plan and buffer be presented to the Planning and Zoning staff for the west
side of the building along the property line adjacent to the property -- or I guess to the
adjacent property. To include trees and landscaping, I guess, to the satisfaction of the
Planning and Zoning Department. Is that enough, Brad?
McCandless: Second.
Nary: And also, I guess, just to echo -- and so that people don't think that, we weren't
paying attention to this particular project, because the name is different. Mr.
McGuinness did indicate on the record that this is not in an industrial zone. It is not an
area that's allowed for dancing, he's not wanting that to be a dance -- type of club dance
entertainment type of club and just wanted to make sure that was clear also in the
public record, so -- and that our attorney draw up Findings of Facts and Conclusions of
Law and Decision of Order.
McCandless: Second again.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded. Is there any further discussion?
Hearing none, Mr. Berg, roll call vote, please.
Roll call: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; de Weerd, aye; Bird, absent.
Corrie: All ayes. Motion to approve the Conditional Use Permit is approved.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT
Item 16. Public Hearing: AZ 02-026
Request for annexation and zoning of 35.94
Burney Glen Subdivision
acres from RUT to R-8 zones for proposed by
Properties West, Inc. – east of North Meridian Road and north of East
Ustick Road:
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January 28, 2003
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Item 17. Public Hearing: PP 02-025
Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 119
building lots and 12 other lots on 35.94 acres in a proposed R-8 zone for
Burney Glen Subdivision
proposed by Properties West, Inc. – east of
North Meridian Road and north of East Ustick Road:
Item 18. Public Hearing: VAR 03-001
Request for a Variance to allow two block
lengths to exceed the 1,000-foot maximum block length for proposed
Burney Glen Subdivision
by Properties West, Inc. – east of North
Meridian Road and north of East Ustick Road:
Corrie: Item Numbers 16, 17, and 18 are all Public Hearings on Burney Glen
Subdivision. First is a request for annexation and zoning of 35.94 acres from an RUT to
an R-8 zone for proposed Burney Glen Subdivision by Properties West, Inc., east of
North Meridian Road and north of East Ustick Road. Then, we also have a Public
Hearing, request for the Preliminary Plat for 119 building lots and 12 other lots on 35.94
acres in an R-8 zone. Request for a variance to allow two block lengths to exceed the
1,000-foot maximum bock length for proposed Burney Glen Subdivision. With Council's
approval, I will open all three Public Hearings and we can combine all your testimony to
all three of them if you like and, then, we will vote separately at the conclusion so,
hearing no objections --
Nary: No.
Corrie: I will open the Public Hearings on Items 16, 17, and 18, and invite staff's
comments first.
Hawkins-Clark: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council. The subdivision
before you is outlined on the screen. It's immediately north of what Council approved as
Sundance Place Subdivision. Heritage Commons Subdivision is touching the southeast
corner and that has been annexed into the city with an R-8 zone. Cedar Springs is
immediately across Meridian Road. McMillan is approximately a half-mile to the north.
The subdivision is 34 -- 35.9 acres and they are asking for annexation from RUT to the
city's R-8 zoning. The R-8 zone does comply with the Comprehensive Plan that
requires medium density residential in this area. On Item Number 17, the Preliminary
Plat, the subdivision is proposed to be in two phases. This line that runs north south is
the phase line for the subdivision. They are proposing 51 lots in their first phase and,
then, the balance of the lots, 117 total, would be constructed in phase two here on the
east end of their project. There are a few other lots that are not buildable within the
subdivision. Those include two other lots, a 1.28-acre, and a 2.05-acre open space
park drainage lot that is centralized here in the subdivision. They are proposing a
roundabout in Phase 1 and the roundabout does have two lots that are here on the
north side. The applicant did agree to extending this landscape buffer on this lot here to
the northwest of the roundabout, so that the access for this house would have to be
taken off of Donovan Way here on the -- to the other side. The Lot Number 2 has some
frontage problems that really didn't allow, you know, that kind of landscape buffer barrier
to be there, so that was a discussion that was held at Planning and Zoning Commission.
Meridian City Council Meeting
January 28, 2003
Page 36 of 51
th
This plat, just for the record, is dated received December 20, stamped by the City
Clerk's Office and is revised from what was originally submitted with the application.
The -- Item Number 18 has to do with block lengths. We do have a maximum 1,000
feet and in this case, the Havasu Creek Subdivision was recommended for approval by
Council last month, a couple months ago, and that abuts the property to the north and
east and they did not provide stub streets that would work with this subdivision in terms
of preventing the block length. There really is no option for Burney Glen Subdivision,
other than to, you know, construct the stub streets in the locations that Havasu Creek
was already approved at, so staff's recommending approval of the block length for that
reason. I think -- a couple other design items to point out. The Commission did ask for
a micropath to be constructed so that residents could have better access into this open
space lot -- open space areas, so they have added a mid block micropath here and they
have added a mid block micropath here on the south or north side, get better access
into that area. We have asked that a temporary turn around at the north end of
Donovan Way, which, again, is in phase one here, it's their stub street to the north, that
a temporary turn around be required there, so they would have to designate one of
these two lots for that turn around. Another option that was given was to secure
permission from the property owner to the north to construct a bulb that would give
emergency services the adequate turn around they need there. They have both options
to either do their turn arounds on site or to secure access there and, certainly that would
be something we would look at during the signature of the plat. I think those are the
main highlights for staff to point out, so I will leave it to the applicant.
Corrie: Thank you, Brad. Questions from Council?
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: So, Brad, is this the only spot where the lot length exceeds the 1,000-foot, in
between that, and -- is that the stub street, I assume?
Hawkins-Clark: That's correct.
Nary: And so -- and at this juncture what you're saying is that the reason the staff is in
favor of it is because there is no other way of designing this, except for this long straight
piece?
Hawkins-Clark: We preferred to see the stub on the east, you know, in association with
the roundabout here. This location is --
Nary: That one is fixed.
Hawkins-Clark: -- predetermined.
Nary: That's already there.
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January 28, 2003
Page 37 of 51
Hawkins-Clark: Right. Yes. I guess you're right. There probably is -- there is an
opportunity to avoid that one. There are two block lengths. This is -- the second block
is around phase two here, beginning from this stub street all the way around to the stub
here on the south. That's the second one.
Nary: And I know we have previously addressed this, I guess, and expressed some
concern. I know there is some discussion and work being done on this type of block
issue. I know we have had that conversation before, but this is a straight shot, I guess -
- I guess this is -- I guess I'm not sure that's the only way to design this. This is just
green space or is this drainage or both?
Hawkins-Clark: Both.
Nary: And I didn't notice in the material that they were planning on doing any other type
of recreational amenity in this particular location, other than green space?
Hawkins-Clark: That's correct, Councilman Nary. It's not proposed as a planned
development, so we don't have two amenities required.
Nary: Okay. Thank you.
Corrie: Any other questions? Is the applicant or their representative here? Is the
testimony you are about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so
help you God?
Fluke: It is.
Corrie: Name and address, please.
Fluke: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, thank you. Daren Fluke, JUB Engineers,
250 South Beachwood in Boise, representing the applicant in this matter. I don't have a
whole lot more to add to what staff's told you. We believe we have designed an
attractive development. The P&Z liked the layout, liked the way -- the configuration of
the open space and just the way the plan overall fit on a somewhat difficult piece of
property to lay out, rather narrow and long, and it presents some design challenges for
us. As was noted, this stub street is fixed by Sundance Place Subdivision to the south.
This stub street is fixed by Havasu to the north and so we don't have any other options
along this block length. The reason we left this the way we did, rather than shifting it
over, that block is only 1,250 feet long. I think, and it would have significantly impacted
the way we were able to do the open space if we were to try to put another cul-de-sac
in. The client and as well as the Planning and Zoning Commission really liked this
roundabout feature and liked its location within the project and so that's why we
determined to ask for a variance at that location. It really doesn't make any significant --
it doesn't make the project significantly better to simply move this over a couple hundred
feet so, that was the thinking there. As far as the open space goes, we will
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January 28, 2003
Page 38 of 51
accommodate drainage in here, but this will be useful green space for the residents, all
the residents in the project. It is -- we are far -- we do exceed -- far exceed that five
percent open space requirement for plats and I'd just point out that we also have the
large regional park about less than a half-mile away from this project. With that, I would
simply ask for your approval and I would take any questions that you might have.
Corrie: Okay. Council?
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: In trying to look at some creative alternatives -- because I agree with what you're
saying, Mr. Fluke, I mean you have a large regional park across the street and, you
know, a half a mile away or less. But was there any discussion and thought of trying to
create some sort of path system through -- with the two subdivisions so that people
could not necessarily have to drive their car across the street to use the park as a
pathway system or something else more creative than just the green space?
Fluke: You mean as far as leaving the project?
Nary: Right. I guess what I'm asking is in trying to find something creative, rather than
just having blank green space, was there any thought or discussion as to try and create
something else? A path system through there, a pathway through the other subdivision,
so that your people who live in this subdivision have -- can get to the park without
necessarily having to drive their car across the street, but can walk through some
walking paths or something else to get them there.
Fluke: I understand. We were -- we were significantly constrained by what came
before us, as -- you know, particularly with regard to paths. We did, of course, connect
to the stubs that were previously approved and we don't have much more opportunity
than that for a path system. Within our own particular development, the thinking was
that this made a lot more sense than trying to provide a walking path around the
perimeter of the property or something like that, which is a real design headache,
particularly if your neighbors haven't done the same thing, which they have not. For us
to put a -- you know, any kind of internal path system here, other than, you know, what
leads to the park, was difficult, if not impossible, given what went on around us. So, no,
we didn't -- we didn't explore the path system much beyond that. People will be able to
access Sundance Park to the south and, then, Sundance Place to the south of that, to
get a ways -- you know, to get down contiguous to the park. They will have to cross
Meridian Road at some point. Also point out that Cedar Springs Subdivision is just
across the street and south of this and so crossing McMillan, you will be able to connect
directly to the park from the Cedar Springs development.
Nary: I didn't notice in looking at the application a lot of variety in housing sizes or lot
sizes in this, but maybe -- and, again, I'm looking at a fairly small map, but would you
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point out some of the variety of housing sizes or lot sizes that we are looking at? It
appears to me that the lots that are -- the access off of Meridian Road are slightly larger
than -- appears to me about 90 percent appear to be about the same.
Fluke: Yes. I'm not sure what the breakdown is on lot sizes as far as, you know,
percentages. What we design typically runs between about 7,000 square feet at the low
end and, you know, 12 to 14,000 square feet at the upper end. The development does
consist of all single-family dwellings. There is no provision for multi-family dwellings and
that was the call that the client made based on the market conditions and what had
been approved around this development. Sundance Place to the south of us is
targeting the market that would be just a notch or two below what this development is
trying to accommodate and our smaller lots do pretty much back up to theirs there on
the south. These are all in the neighborhood of about 7,000 square feet. They get a
little bit bigger here, a little bit deeper. The smaller lots are in this area and they trend a
little bit bigger here around the park. These are nicer lots here and these lots are also a
little bit bigger, more in the 8,000-foot range on this perimeter here.
Nary: So, are those lots there on the southern boundary line, are they similar to the size
lots on the Sundance side?
Fluke: Similar, but a little bit larger. I think Sundance was running in that 6,000 square
foot range. Does that sound right?
Hawkins-Clark: I think they were more around the seven -- seven and above.
Fluke: Where they? Okay so we are going to match up pretty well, then, with what they
have.
Nary: And on the northern boundary, it's not developed at this time correct?
Fluke: It's not developed -- that's correct.
Nary: Havasu Creek is more on the --
Fluke: From this point east. Yes.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: Will you have any amenity in your green space or is it just going to be
drainage and green?
Fluke: It will be usable park space. I think this dimension across here is about 100 feet,
so these are pretty good size park-type lots they are not small little odd lots.
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De Weerd: I like the lineal park. It's a nice big open space but will you have any play
area designated?
Fluke: You know we haven't discussed that. The client is here. He his indicating no.
The clients indicating he would be happy to talk about the market that they are trying to
shoot for here, if you'd like to hear that discussion. Thank you.
Corrie: Thank you. Anyone else from the public like to issue testimony? Is the
testimony you are about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so
help you God?
Barnes: Yes, sir.
Corrie: Name and address, please.
Barnes: John Barnes, 1034 Justin Place, Meridian, Idaho. Chairman and -- or Mayor
and City Council, what we are trying to do here is to the move-up market in Meridian.
As you know, some of you that have been here a long time, I did the 280 lot subdivision
on Locust Grove called Hunter Point and our market was -- that was back from about
'92 to '96 and those houses were in that 1,600 to 22,000-foot range, typically. Some
two, some -- a few three car garages. This market we are going after is on up to 24 to
2600. The step up market we are talking starting at about 190 and going to as high as
300, with the median somewhere around 270. All of them will be three car garages.
We are aiming at the family market that wants the -- you know, the larger home, the
green space. To answer Councilwoman de Weerd's question about the green space,
we are going to hydroseed it. We will probably put a pathway through it, if we can see a
way, you know -- you know, not linear, but we will add some trees -- we are going to
dress it up, because we know that -- we have a market there that we are going to try to
zero in on. We are going to be really dressing the roundabout we are going to -- you
will see some really exciting mature trees and plantings. We really want to hit that
market and really make it -- you know, make it happen, make it something proud -- but
we are going to go after all the move up market in Meridian, those people that are ready
to move on up. Their family has gotten larger, they have more children, and they want a
little larger lot and they seem to have got some pretty good depth there, you know, 120s
and 30s. We have got some big back yards on some of those -- both the north, south
side and, then, backing them all up to the park in the middle, people like that green
space, because they are looking house to house. This is kind of the market we are
going after. We have a builder team we are going to bring in to do it. Excited about it.
Anymore questions, I would happy to try to --
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Mr. Barnes, I mean all that sounds -- sounds very nice and it sounds like a very
nice subdivision, but I guess what my concern is what you're telling me is what the
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clientele that you're marketing this property to has a lot of children. Yet, you're creating
an open recreational space that has nothing for children to use it for. That means those
children are either going to not use it and be walking down, I guess, sidewalks through
another subdivision or trying to cross Meridian Road to get to the other park and I guess
I'm concerned in not really making it an attractive, usable open space for the people that
are going to live there.
Barnes: Well, to answer your question, Councilman, what would keep them from
playing soccer, football, all of those things? Are you thinking of a kiddy playground? Is
that kind of what you're thinking? See, they will have -- they will be able to do all of
those things in that open space. Are you talking about a kiddy play area or something
like that?
Nary: Well, I mean whether it's a kid's play area or -- it doesn't appear to be large
enough to have a field of use or anything. There is no basketball court. There is no -- I
mean there might be a walking path at some point that can be used from an exercise
standpoint, but right now it's just a swale and that's it and that, to me, isn't very usable
space. I mean you have a lot of homes with an R-8, although you're fairly close to the
R-4 number in here. You have a lot of homes in here and you're marketing it to people
who are going to have a lot of kids. What my concern is that they are not going to have
a lot to do and so it's kind of wasted space and I'd rather have some usable space.
Barnes: I would disagree with your assessment. I think we are providing an open
space area that is sprinkled and is going to be mowed, there is nothing wrong -- there is
no -- nothing to stop them from playing soccer or football or a walking area.
Nary: How many acres is it? How much -- how much acreage is that green space?
Barnes: It looks like it's about three total. 2.2 and 1.2, so -- but compare that with what
you have already approved, you know, in the area. Again, we have a large regional
park at Settler's Park that's down below, but we feel that that will be a very usable, you
know, amenity. A lot of these people will be walking through there, so besides the
walking path, we have got the trails -- the pathways leading from these two streets to
bring people into it. I would disagree, it will be, -- it will be well used. We are going for a
market that is not necessarily the bottom, the baby making group, we are going to the
next move up group that have kids from junior high through, you know, the high school
area. I don't know if I answered your question fully, but --
Nary: Well, you know, maybe we will just have to disagree. I used to live by a three
acre park that was just grass and it didn't get used as much until it became a park that
had amenities to it for a variety of different people to use it. When it was just grass, it
wasn't used as extensively as it's used now with a basketball court and a walking path
around it and a kid's play lot and there was more to it, to allow for varieties of uses and
so maybe we will just have to disagree.
Corrie: Okay. Anyone else like to issue testimony? Okay. Any further questions?
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De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I guess I would make my comments. At first blush I kind of thought as
Councilman Nary did, but I also know that we kind of fall into that move up category and
we just built on the golf course. This has a little bit more attraction to me, because you
still have that linear green look and I wouldn't have to worry about golf balls. You know,
the thing is -- and what we heard last night is there are a lot of people out there using
that golf course, because of the open space, the linear look, as walking their dogs. My
neighbor flies his plane out there every day, you know, a little remote plane, and I see a
lot of use on that linear type of green space, so had I not moved where I did, because I
like that kind of thing, I would agree with you. But I now have it from kind of a different
look and it's -- this is the same kind of look out at Crossroads and I know that the
residents out at Crossroads really like that linear green space of -- you know, even if it's
not used, people appreciate it. Just another perspective, but that was my first thought,
too.
Corrie: I feel sorry for you and the golf balls.
De Weerd: Yes. Right. You mean you empathize with me; right?
Corrie: I feel sorry for you. Broken windows. Any other discussion?
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I guess I just want to make it clear, I do think there is a lot of positive in this
particular subdivision that you're trying to do. I guess we have had the same concerns
from this Council a number of times and I guess I'm not totally convinced -- and the
Public Hearing is still open, but one of the things we had looked for and been looking at
in other subdivisions around here is some creativity, some variety in houses, some
variety in style, some innovativeness. We commented extensively in two hours in the
hearing last week about a subdivision that built a -- sort of exercise facility as a part of it,
that had something creative and different for folks, so that they weren't the same type of
look. The same size of lots, the exact same appearance one after another after
another. I certainly don't have a problem if Mr. Fluke and Mr. Barnes want to come
back up, but I'm not convinced. I think what Councilwoman de Weerd said is very
valuable, I agree, there probably is some value to that, but I am very concerned that this
is the same thing that we have seen before with a traffic circle in the middle of it. That's
very nice, but there is not a whole lot of anything new, different, innovative, and unique,
about this project. It is very nice, but it is very much the same. I haven't heard anything
from the folks to this point to convince me to annex this property to add it to the city that
-- to approve this plat and have, essentially, another subdivision that looks like all the
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rest of them. All I heard Mr. Fluke say was this is what the other ones look like, that's
why we are like this. They want a variance, because they don't want to move the circle.
They want this open space, because they don't really want, necessarily, other types of
amenities. They don't have a path system, other than two walking paths from one block
to another. That's not a path system. I mean I just don't see a whole lot that's
compelling to me to want to add this to our city. I guess I would be more than happy if
you folks want to come back up and tell me why, but it doesn't appear to me to be
anything new and that's kind of what we have been saying we'd like to see is something
new.
Corrie: Okay. With that, would you like to have any further comments?
Fluke: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, Daren Fluke again. I suppose there is not a
whole lot I can say in response to that. I just simply point out to you that we are dealing
with a piece of property that's only 550 feet in this dimension, which makes it, you know,
600 feet in this dimension. As far as a path, system, I mean a path system is --
anything besides the sidewalks that we have to build, is going to be redundant. I mean I
don't know what we could add to what's already there. It's fully accessorized for
pedestrians already. I mean, bear in mind, that because of the requirements of ACHD,
we have 50 feet of right of way here. When we go to lay out a subdivision, we
immediately lose a minimum of one quarter of the land area to roads. I mean it goes
under asphalt and concrete. You know, I have been a proponent for a long time of
narrower streets. These streets are way too big for the amount of trips that they see.
You know, I mean I could go on and on about why the streets are too big, but that is one
of the design factors that's imposed upon us that we have to deal with and we have to
work around. The open space in this thing is way more and way more functional than
many of the open spaces that you see that are primarily designed to deal with drainage.
I mean these will -- yes, they don't have a tot lot or a basketball court in the middle of
them, but they are fully functional and -- I mean I remember a time I grew up in a newer
subdivision and we didn't even have this. You know, we didn't have a tot lot, we played
other games, you know, and an open space of 100 feet in this dimension and several
hundred feet in this dimension is plenty usable for kids to get a game together of any
number of sports. You know, yes, there is not -- there is not a lot of doodads in this
thing, but it's an attractive development, it's got a large amount of open space and, you
know, given the constraints of the site, I think we have designed a really nice product
here. As far as a reason to bring it into the city, you know, house -- median house
prices of 270,000 dollars -- I mean do the math over 119 lots, it will expand your tax
base and there is not a lot of additional services the city will be providing. You have
already built the White Trunk and encouraged people to come and develop land in this
area and, you know, I don't know how to be much more compelling than that. There is
just -- you know, we hear that you want us to be creative, but working with the
regulations that are included in your zoning ordinance, as well as the Highway District's
regulations, and we get backed into a corner a lot of times. It's very difficult to do
anything different, I mean particularly if you want to try a neo-traditional type layout
where we provided alleys, you know, it's almost impossible, given the regulations that
we have to deal with. There is just no incentive to do it. It's all penalty and no incentive.
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You know, I'm just not sure what the innovative things are that you're looking for. I
mean we hit this stumbling block every time we go to lay out a subdivision, because the
first thing we do is go to the zoning ordinance -- well, the first thing we do is look at the
plans, see what you're planning for. The next thing we do is look at the ordinances to
see what the parameters are and that's what we work with.
Corrie: Is the green area -- is that fairly flat?
Fluke: Yes.
Corrie: Or is there a three-foot swale in the middle?
Fluke: No. It's not a swale. It will be a flat, usable area. It will accommodate drainage,
but it's large enough that it doesn't have to be depressed.
Corrie: It's all in grass?
Fluke: Right. Thank you.
Corrie: John, anything else you want to say? You don't have to. I mean --
Barnes: We would be amenable to have accesses coming from every point there. I
would be amenable to put an asphalt path on one side -- probably take the north -- the
north side from below the bulb and come across, a walking path to connect up with the
next street and come all the way across there. You know, offset those houses that you
-- you want to be off their lots a little bit to give them some privacy. We could do the
same and connect up and come out to the end of the block at the far end, so across that
street, then, and do the same thing on the other land next phase, if that -- is that kind of
what you're thinking about? Is that -- provide a distinct walking area for these people?
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Mr. Barnes, I'm not trying to be difficult I really am not. I'm not trying to design it
for you. We have seen -- and, in fact, the property to the east that abuts this property
that basically is part of where your connection to the city is has a variety of different
things in it so, it can be done. I recognize that this particular shaped property doesn't
have quite the same ability to be innovative as a larger rectangle, a larger square, or
whatever. I understand that. Now, if you didn't have 119 homes in it, you might have
more room to do things, but it may not be economical feasible for you and so I
understand there is a balance there. I understand. I'm not trying to tell you if you don't
put a walking path in, I don't want to vote for it. I'm saying that all I'm looking for from
here is that we have tried to stress over and over to people that what we wanted is for
you to be the creative ones to bring a variety of housing. A variety of styles to this city,
a variety of different looks, something that's not just the same thing that's right next door
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to you. You know, we have approved a lot of those and at some point, I have to look at
it and say do we need to just keep approving them until somebody else can be
innovative? Or do we need to say, no, you need to be innovative and maybe you need
to go back to the drawing board and bring it back and tell us what's innovative about it
and what's different about it and what makes it more attractive and, then, have us look
at it again but this is our only chance. When you bring it back as a Final Plat, it's
supposed to look a lot like that. My only -- our only opportunity to say let's see what
else you can do is right now. I might be the only one up here that thinks that, so you
don't have to please me necessarily, I think you have to do whatever you want to do. I
do think that there hasn't been a whole lot and just because it's 120 homes, as Mr.
Fluke said, that's not a reason to annex this property. Just because it's going to have a
green space in it, that's very nice, but all I was asking was to have something more
innovative, different, creative than what we have seen over and over and over. I think it
will drive the market better. I think you will have more attractive property to sell if you
create something like that. I think that's what we have seen in some people and I think
their properties sell fairly well that way. We have also seen some that don't do anything
-- that don't do everything even as nice as what you're proposing and they will probably
sell them, too. At some point somebody has to say that's just not what we are looking
for and that's just all I'm saying.
Barnes: Well, we have -- you know, my marketing man, Dan Chris isn't here, but he's
coming in on some garage under ideas -- I mean you will see some innovative housing
here, you know, some new ideas. You know, you have to remember the marketplace
drives this business. We feel we have provided a very nice product and I will stand
behind JUB and what they designed here, taking this piece of property and putting that
green space and getting it nearly ten percent is much greater than most of the
Preliminary Plats and stuff that you see coming in here. I think we have done a good
job, we have got curvilinear streets, and we are going to have some very innovative
housing ideas. We are going to box in the gable vents. We are going to -- there is
going to be stamped bominate or, you know, concrete on the driveways, they are going
to be curvilinear sidewalks going to the front door, brass kick plates, ta da, ta da, ta da.
I mean I could get into a lot of that stuff, if that's the kind of thing you want to hear. We
have to rifle the market in. You know, you don't invest three or four million dollars and
not know where you are going with the marketplace. We are -- it behooves us to protect
our investment to do what you're saying and so we are going to ratchet up, you know,
the quality and the style of the houses and -- I hope I answered your question.
Corrie: Any other questions for the Public Hearing?
Hawkins-Clark: Mr. Mayor, I would like to get, if we could, feedback from Mr. Barnes or
Mr. Fluke on the fencing that are around the open space area that is proposed. That
was not addressed in the -- for example, are they going to allow each homeowner to
come in and construct six-foot solid fences who are abutting that open space area?
We'd like to get that cleaned up at the Preliminary Plat stage, rather than Final Plat,
because the ordinance doesn't --
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Barnes: In the covenants that we are going to supply in the submittal, we restrict the
height to 42 inches on all of the rear yards that abut the open green space, so we are
pushing them down, so it doesn't look like a corral.
Corrie: Are they gated?
Barnes: What's that?
Corrie: Are they gated?
Barnes: Gated into the green space? Yes, they can be gated if you want to come into it
but we are limiting the height to 42 inches.
Corrie: So they wouldn't have to do a high jump over the fence.
Barnes: Well, I want you to buy up there, Bob, so I can see --
Corrie: Thank you. Lose some weight. Does that answer your questions?
Barnes: Thank you.
Corrie: Thank you, John. Any other questions? Okay. I will entertain a motion to close
the Public Hearing on Item 16, 17, and 18.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I move we close the Public Hearing on 16, 17, and 18.
Nary: Second.
Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded to close the Public Hearing on Item Nos.
16, 17, and 18 on the Burney Glen Subdivision. Any further discussion? Hearing none,
all those in favor say aye. Opposed no? All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT
Corrie: Further discussion?
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I have probably an opposite view on this proposal than Councilman Nary.
My first look at it is it's different than a lot of the things that we have seen. There is a
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large variety in lot sizes from -- I think their application said 6,500 or 12,000 square feet.
This is different from what we have been seeing and even though the other applicants
are mixed uses, this doesn't really have the mixed use of housing per se, but it's
different. It does have the lineal part that -- they can redesign it, give you a variety of
housing styles, and give you a block open space, -- you know, I do like the different look
and I like the roundabout. I think there is creativity here and there is -- if they were
marketing it to me. If I hadn't of just built my house, I would be very drawn to something
like this and maybe I'm just looking at it from personal preference. We do not have very
many of these type of subdivisions in our city, so that does make a difference. We do
have a 56-acre park within a half-mile of it or even a quarter mile. This does allow a
different type of recreational use to serve the neighborhood so I guess I see it in a little
different perspective. I do appreciate your concerns. We are looking for uniqueness
and something different and I do think that this fits that and it is different.
Hawkins-Clark: Mr. Mayor, I'm sorry, I would like to point out, and I gave a wrong date
earlier. The plat -- the correct plat is stamped by Gary Lee of JUB Engineers, January
6, 2003. I gave a wrong date earlier for the Preliminary Plat that we are looking at.
Corrie: Okay. Further discussion?
De Weerd: Well, for just in light of moving this along, I will attempt something and see if
it gets seconded. I would like to move that we approve the request for annexation and
zoning of 35.94 acres from RUT to R-8 zone for proposed Burney Glen Subdivision. To
include -- and I know it doesn't necessarily need to be on the annexation and zoning. I
would like to include the pathway on the northern side of the open space going from
east to west and, you know, it does connect to each of the roads on the far east side
and to the roundabout and ask the attorney to draw up Findings of Facts and
Conclusions of Law and Decision of Order.
Corrie: Motion has been made. Is there a second to the motion? Okay. Hearing none,
motion dies for lack of second. Any other ideas?
Nary: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: And I guess the only reason I didn't second it -- I don't know what Council
Member McCandless is thinking -- is because I'm just not -- I'm just not sure at the
moment. It doesn't mean that I'm not in favor of this, but I do appreciate what you said,
because I do think you did raise some valid points that are -- there are some differences
here that we haven't seen. We have seen -- well, even the ones south of this have a
square of green space and a square of a basketball court and I don't know that they
have a whole lot else than that. I wasn't looking to try to match it to one that's less than
innovative, I was looking at the ones that are east of here, which are significantly more
diverse and creative than what this is. Again, I am a little torn, but I do think there
probably is a market for this. I have sat here for a year and approved a lot of these, with
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the assumption that there is a market for all different variety of things. Even the things
that maybe aren't as appealing to me, but my feeling is different from many others.
What Council Member de Weerd said I think is very helpful in trying to come up with
something here to work for everybody and at least Mr. Barnes has attempted to try to
add to this a little bit to make it a little bit more attractive, so what do you think? The
Mayor is just glad he doesn't have to break a tie.
McCandless: I realize that.
Corrie: I certainly would if I had to.
McCandless: I just don't understand why there can't be something in that green space -
- for instance, a basketball -- just a basketball court where guys can go out and play
with their sons some basketball. I don't necessarily think there needs to be a kiddy
playground in there, but if you're willing to put an asphalt walkway in there, it wouldn't be
that much harder to put -- use one corner of it for some kind a recreation.
Barnes: But who wants a basketball court behind their house?
McCandless: It's kind of a silly thing to argue over, but it just sticks with me. That's all.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I guess I would just add I would imagine the market that would be attracted
to a development like this is not looking for that amenity, you know. I wouldn't have built
on the golf course if golf balls weren't quiet and I don't want a basketball court behind
my house. I would be the one that wants to appreciate the green and open space and
the kids running through it -- not with a noisy ball, but I have my neighbor's noisy remote
control airplane, but --
McCandless: You can't please everybody.
De Weerd: So, I don't know, I think the offer, like Mrs. McCandless mentioned, with the
pathway is nice. I just wonder if adding an amenity like a tot lot or the basketball court
or something else would really take away from the market that you're trying to have
there. I guess I can only say that, because I believe I'm one of those in the market he
would be attracting. That's those that don't want someone built 20 feet from their back
door, you know, that wants -- that wants that open space. That's -- that's just my
personal perspective.
Corrie: Want to take another shot at annexation or -- I'm not trying to tell you what to
do.
De Weerd: Okay. I just got the nod that I should try my motion again.
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Corrie: I would imagine the Preliminary Plat --
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Attorney, before I attempt it, do I put the pathway on this or on
the Preliminary Plat?
Nichols: Mayor, Members of the Council, I would put it in both.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. I will move to approve the request for annexation and
zoning of 35.94 acres from RUT to R-8 zones for the proposed Burney Glen Subdivision
-- if I keep messing up the name. I apologize -- and to include the noted pathway that
the applicant testified to, to have the attorney draw up Findings of Facts and
Conclusions of Law and Decision of Order, and as well to also note the height of the
fence.
Nary: On the interior?
De Weerd: On the lots that would abut the green space to 42 inches.
Corrie: Mr. Nichols, you --
De Weerd: He's waiting for a second before he comments.
Nary: Second.
Corrie: Motion made and second. Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, I'd put the fence height limitation in the
plat.
De Weerd: Okay.
Corrie: Okay. We have a motion and a second on the request for annexation and
zoning. Any further discussion? Okay. Roll call vote, Mr. Berg.
Roll call: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; de Weerd, aye; Bird, absent.
Corrie: Okay. Three ayes. Motion to approve the annexation and zoning.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT
Corrie: Now, let's move right on to the Preliminary Plat.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
Meridian City Council Meeting
January 28, 2003
Page 50 of 51
De Weerd: I move that we approved the request for a Preliminary Plat of 119 building
lots and 12 other lots on 35.94 acres in a proposed R-8 zone for Burney Glen
Subdivision. To include the testified pathway in the green space and also note the
fence height of 42 inches maximum and to ask the attorney to draw up Findings of
Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision of Order.
Nary: Second.
Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded. Any further discussion? Hearing none,
roll call vote, Mr. Berg.
Roll call: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; de Weerd, aye; Bird, absent.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT
Corrie: Okay.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I move we approve the request for a Variance to allow two block lengths to
exceed the 1,000-foot maximum block length for Burney Glen Subdivision and ask the
attorney to draw up findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision of Order.
Nary: Second.
Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded. Any further discussion? Okay. Roll call
vote, Mr. Berg.
Roll call: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; de Weerd, aye; Bird, absent.
Corrie: Motion is approved.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT
Corrie: And with that, we have run out of space on the agenda, so I would -- unless we
have anything further, I would entertain a motion to adjourn.
De Weerd: So moved.
Nary: Second.
Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded to adjourn the City Council meeting. All
in favor say aye.
Meridian City Council Meeting
January 28, 2003
Page 51 of 51
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT
th
Corrie: The meeting is adjourned on January 28 at 9:35.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:35 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
APPROVED:
/ /
ROBERT D. CORRIE, MAYOR DATE
ATTESTED:
WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., CITY CLERK