HomeMy WebLinkAbout2003 04-01 Pre
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting April 1, 2003
The Pre-Council Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:30
P.M. on Tuesday, April 1, 2003, by Mayor Robert Corrie.
Members Present: Mayor Robert Corrie, Tammy de Weerd, Keith Bird, and
Cherie McCandless.
Members Absent: Bill Nary.
Others Present: Brad Watson, Brad Hawkins-Clark, Bill Nichols, Gary Smith,
Doug Strong, and Will Berg.
Item 1. Roll-call Attendance:
X Tammy de Weerd O Bill Nary
X Cherie McCandless X Keith Bird
X Mayor Robert Corrie
Corrie: All right I’m going to open the Pre-Council Meeting for Tuesday, April 1,
2003 at 6:30 P.M. at the City Council Chambers. At this time, I would like to
have the City Clerk have roll call attendance please.
Item 2. Adoption of the Agenda:
Corrie: The second item is the adoption of the agenda. Council you have the
three items of the Pre-Council Agenda.
Bird: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would move that we adopt the Pre-Council Meeting Agenda as published.
De Weerd: Second.
Corrie: Okay motion been made and second to adopt the agenda as published
any further discussion. All those in favor of the motion say aye. Three ayes
motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES, ONE ABSENT
Item 3. Update of Construction and Annexation Interest for Carol
Subdivision:
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April 1, 2003
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Corrie: Item Number 3 is the construction and annexation interest for Carol
Subdivision Brad Watson.
Watson: Thank you Mr. Mayor and Council Members. The agenda item said
both construction and annexation so I assume that you wanted both of those.
The construction part is according to our Staff Engineer Len Grady who is
managing the project is about 50 percent complete dollar wise. Only one of the
three borings is complete they ran into some problems on the initial one that took
them a lot longer than estimated. Originally, the contract was supposed to end in
mid May. The current estimate is the end of July but they will have all the open
cut pipe work done on schedule it’s just those borings, the last two borings going
across Eagle Road will be the critical path. Before I move onto the annexation
stuff, do you have any questions on the construction? I’ll point out we had Brown
Construction as the contractor out there and all indications are from the residents
that they’ve done a really, really good job and have really worked with the
residents in Carol Subdivision extremely well considering the destruction they
(inaudible) to those streets out there. It sounds like for the most part everyone’s
reasonably I wouldn’t say happy but they’re – they seem to be okay except for
maybe a few. Moving onto the annexation issue based on the direction that I got
from Council in October after we had done a little survey one of the residents out
there has been working with me to put together a group annexation application.
That kind of kicked into high gear last month and 22 of the 49 property owners
elected to be part of a group annexation application. The map that I think Will
perhaps passed out to you shows those lots that want to participate. They are all
in a manner of speaking contiguous either to existing city limits or by another lot
that wants to annex. The only exception I might point out is the two at the north
end of the subdivision that abut Ustick Road. They would be contiguous if the
Parkstone Subdivision that’s on the agenda for later tonight is officially annexed.
What they’re wanting to do and I think staff is supportive of is for all of them to
come in together under one application rather than having 22 individual
annexation and zoning applications and Public Hearings come through here.
That will obviously decrease all of our workloads immensely. Unfortunately, it’s a
bit of a patchwork out there. The resident that was working with me he didn’t do
a lot of campaigning but he took it upon himself to make the initial contact with all
the property owners out there. I in turn corresponded, sent out mask mailings
several times to those people and got almost 50 percent participation which was
more than I anticipated. I think this would probably be scheduled to be heard in
May at least that’s what I was told by Planning and Zoning. That’s about all I
know at this point. I’ll welcome any questions if you have any.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: You know Brad I know that probably your department, Planning and
Zoning look at this and kind of cringe. Maybe our safety services do as well that
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April 1, 2003
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with the Joint Powers Agreement or Joint Group Agreement and servicing I think
is the best way we can do it. As these other ones see the benefits of going on
line with sewer and water you know eventually we’ll have this all taken care of. I
think you’re office has dealt with these residents very fairly and you’ve bent over
backwards in trying to meet their service needs. This may not be ideal but I think
you guys have done a very good job in getting to this point so I appreciate it.
Watson: Thank you.
Corrie: Brad these 22 out of the 49 they’re willing to go on -- they water and
sewer and right now as they annex is that correct? Any other how are we going
to do that where some are on it some aren’t? Do they just not connect to the
availability of the sewer and the water is that the case?
Watson: Mr. Mayor and Council Members we stuck services in to each and
every lot at their direction or locations they directed. I’ve sent probably three or
four different mailings to them explaining fees and how to go about all of this.
Until they annex we won’t set a water meter so they don’t have any physical
connection to it. I guess there’s always the risk of a nighttime sewer connection
but I doubt that many people are too interested in doing that. Based on the
October discussion that I had with Council there are some lots that will still
remain noncontiguous to any city limits. My correspondence based on that
October discussion was that they could still elect to connect to the water and
sewer if they signed this Annexation Agreement that’s not the proper term for it
but those agreements that we’ve executed in the past.
Corrie: Okay. I too commend you for the time you’ve put into this staff time as
well have done a good job here. Eventually, the others will see the light I think
too.
Watson: Thank you.
Corrie: Any other questions?
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Okay thank you very much appreciate that.
Watson: Thank you.
Item 4. Update of Lakes at Cherry Lane No. 9 Pathway (Tiling or
Fencing of Eight Mile Lateral between the Lakes at Cherry
Lane No. 9 and Wilkins Ranch Subdivision):
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April 1, 2003
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Corrie: Item Number 4 is the update on Cherry Lakes or excuse me Cherry
Lane’s No. 9 pathway tiling or fencing of Eight Mile Lateral between the Lakes at
Cherry Lane No. 9 and Wilkins Ranch Subdivision. Brad do you want to start.
Hawkins-Clark: Thank you Mayor Members of the Council this item was placed
on the agenda at the request of Councilwoman de Weerd. As you know this
development has had over two and a half years now of a pending condition that
we at the Planning and Zoning Department have been sort of poking at here and
there for a long time. I guess I’ll just take a couple of minutes to briefly highlight
what I understand to be the main issue at hand. Mr. Nichols as well as Mr.
Arnold are actually more versed in the background of this project so they can
speak maybe more directly to any questions you might have. Just quickly, the
packet that you received I did include an email that I sent to Mr. Berg that noted
that there were several key letters and correspondence that have taken place.
Essentially, what we have is a Final Plat for The Lakes at Cherry Lane No. 9 a
condition that was a part of the Final Plat was that the developer continue a
pathway along the Eight Mile Lateral. It was Condition Number 8 of the staff
report that was file PP-99-005 so this Final Plat was mid-1999. I guess I’m going
to – just there was a couple of site photos that are here that show some of the
areas around the Wilkins Ranch, Lakes at Cherry Lane and other golf course
abutting subdivisions. That’s basically there for the Council’s further input later
on. This photo here in the bottom right is taken looking northwest. Wilkins
Ranch Subdivision is here on the right hand side. Lakes at Cherry Subdivision is
here on the left hand side. The Eight Mile Lateral courses in between. This is a
common lot for Wilkins Ranch from the center of the canal to the north and a
common lot within Lakes of Cherry Lane from the center of the canal to the
south. The subdivision Wilkins Ranch was not required to construct a pathway
the Lakes at Cherry Lane was. As you can see here this is a public sidewalk
there on what I believe is Moon Ranch.
De Weerd: Moon Lake.
Hawkins-Clark: Moon what?
De Weerd: Moon Lake.
Hawkins-Clark: Moon Lake I’m sorry Moon Lake right. These are just further
down to the west. Staten Park Subdivision abuts Wilkins Ranch on the north
side of the drain. It was required to construct a pathway this does not reflect that
but the chainlink fencing is abutting Wilkins as well as Staten Park. As you can
see the Irrigation District does have a maintenance road that’s on the north side
of the canal. Here’s just a quick look at the Lakes at Cherry Lane No. 9 plat.
The photograph that I showed you is along this portion of the canal the Eight Mile
Lateral is here. The common lot runs behind all of these residential lots the full
distance of that northern boundary. At issue I guess is basically comes down to
a couple of things. One this is a condition that the developer had placed on him
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April 1, 2003
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by the city. We are holding in approximately 17,000 dollars. We have been for
three years now. They’ve renewed their letter of credit I believe three different
times it expires in about three weeks for the third or fourth time. Essentially the
money is there to be used if the city wants to, to construct this pathway. This is
not a pathway that is on either the Park’s Master Plan or the Comprehensive
Plan so it is not shown as a public pathway. It’s part of the public pathway
system. Most of ours are along natural drains not these man made laterals. I
guess it begs the question one do we want to continue to enforce – if we want to
enforce this condition then we need to do so. Either the engineering needs to be
done and the pathway needs constructed then the bond can be taken care of and
off the city’s books or if the City Council would prefer to reconsider the condition
then I think the plat would need to be reopened and this condition formerly
removed. That may be simplifying it quite a bit. If you’ve read the material, you
can see that there are a number of issues at stake including the fact that we don’t
have a License Agreement with Nampa Meridian Irrigation District at this point in
time and Mr. Nichols pointed that out in his memo. As we talked about two
weeks ago, the Irrigation District’s preference would be for the Homeowners
Association to indemnify the City of Meridian. We are going to be putting that on
future plats but in this case the Homeowners Association of Lakes at Cherry
Lane No. 9 did not have that condition so we would potentially need to go and
visit that issue with the Homeowners Association and see if they’re willing to
indemnify the city should that be the Council’s wish. I think those are some of
the highlights.
Corrie: Any questions right now of Brad. Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor just to add to what Brad had to say initially the discussion got
going because Nampa Meridian had sent some letters to the developer saying
we will not allow you to construct a pathway under any circumstances. Then we
have a meeting at the office of the attorney for the Irrigation District in which they
said yes we will allow a pathway if we approve the plans. If there’s a License
Agreement between the district and the city that ties into the Master Pathway
Agreement, which includes the issues with regard to indemnifying the district
against any liability claims, also outlying maintenance responsibilities, contact for
closure and those sorts of things. Mr. Arnold is here and he can – if I’ve left
anything out but I think that’s where it was is at that meeting which I think was
September of last year the developer was checking into what it would cost to tile
the Eight Mile Lateral. It’s a big ditch it’s not a small ditch. He had to get those
numbers, had to have the water flow information in order to get those numbers,
do those calculations and see what it would cost to tile the ditch versus installing
a pathway with an open vision removable chainlink fence.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
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April 1, 2003
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De Weerd: Mr. Nichols didn’t – I think one of the points that was discussed was
the safety factor and the speed of the water as it came out from underneath that
road was that not one of the issues discussed?
Nichols: Councilwoman de Weerd, Mayor, and Members of the Council the
speed of the water is one of the concerns or one of the issues. The Irrigation
District if I recall correctly wanted the fence to come from the bridge abutment
down along the edge of the ditch so that there was an access between the edge
of the fence and the bridge abutment into the water. If I recall correctly I think
that’s where that was. I think one of the other issues was well where does the
pathway go and that seems to be an issue. Right now on the southeast corner of
Ustick and Black Cat that is unplatted open land so this where – Brad if you can
bring the plat back you can see the end of the common lot where the angle stops
at the top. Those move the pointer up along right up to the top. Okay right –
there’s no pathway along that very top northern edge it’s only on the part of the
common lot that essentially goes in a northwesterly southeasterly direction when
you see that part right at the top of the screen that says unplatted that’s an open
field.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: Is that not where Staten Subdivision is or where that ends?
Hawkins-Clark: That Councilwoman de Weerd is on the north side.
De Weerd: Okay so it’s across the ditch then?
Hawkins-Clark: Correct.
De Weerd: Okay.
Corrie: Okay any other questions? Okay Mr. Arnold.
Arnold: Mr. Mayor, Members of the City Council name and address Steve Arnold
1800 West Overland Road Briggs Engineering.
Corrie: Thank you.
Arnold: I guess a lot of the points have been touched on. Preliminary Plat we
didn’t contest the condition, Final Plat we didn’t contest the condition. It didn’t
become an issue until we went to Nampa Meridian Irrigation District if you’re
aware Brenda Estates that’s just downstream of this site the developer at that
time or the developers representative just put it in there. Now they kind of got
Nampa Meridian Irrigation District a little fired up and they brought that up in our
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April 1, 2003
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meeting at the attorney’s office. We went to them before we went to construct
this and ask them look what do we need to do to get this put into your standards.
At that time they said not just no but heck no and you guys just you’re not going
to put it in there. We brought up this agreement issue and they addressed it.
They said it doesn’t pertain to the lease the laterals and live water of the speed.
They said the only way that we would accept that ditch at this time is if you pipe
it. That was between 60 – 80,000 dollars for the concrete and pipe because of
the size. The other option was that we do a fence with removable bollards so
that they can get in there and do their construction, clean out the ditch or burn
the ditch bank and it had to be of material that they can get in there and do the
work on it chainlink to be exact. Our preference on the chainlink I think we have
a nice looking subdivision there if we put – if we have a fence from Wilkins and a
fence from Lakes at Cherry Lane and you have a fence in the middle I think that
would look – I don’t think that’s the way to go. I think that would look a little bit
ugly. The best way to do this if we want – if the – is to pipe the ditch. Obviously
from the developers standpoint they don’t want to do that at all because of the
expense. Had they had known or had we had known that it was going to come to
this standpoint at that time we probably would have contested the condition and
asked the Council to waive that. I guess to add to some of the issues. One was
the last I was told was I was to get you the numbers and I think we got your
offices numbers for the fencing. Fencing was anywhere between 17 – 20,000 to
fence that. That again was probably more so well it is more than what the
developer anticipated for that path. At this point because of the efforts and
energies that have gone into discussion, the pathway to meeting with the
Irrigation District they’re not budging on any of the issues with either our fence or
ditch it. At this point, I guess I would like to come back to you and ask for that
condition to be waived and for whatever process that’s going to take we’ll, do
that. That’s our ideal situation. The next would be to give the city the money to
build it so that frankly if it were done with a headache it was a condition that we
didn’t think out very well at the time that we accepted it and we should have and
brought that to your attention at that time. Again, Brenda Estates we just went
out or the developer just went out and built it and I don’t think he created too
many friends with Nampa Meridian. We’ve been told by Nampa Meridian if we
go out and build it this time they’re going to sue for damages.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I guess knowing now that it’s on the Cherry Lane No. 9 side and that
the other pathway is in on the north side of the ditch and we know how they are
about bridges it makes sense to just not have a pathway there. One other thing
is once you have that pathway in they’ll want to then continue on the pathway or
an apparent pathway which is not a path it’s just where they tiled that ditch on the
golf course side and we’ll run into some more issues down that way too. I guess
the concern is if you go in and try to modify your CUP to take the pathway
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April 1, 2003
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condition off of there or your Preliminary Plat you still – what are you going to do?
Are you going to try and fence at least along that front end to where you do have
fencing for the safety factor or what are your plans on that?
Arnold: Mr. Mayor, Councilwoman de Weerd I guess that would be a good
bargaining chip for the city. As a condition of waiving the pathway we fence – we
didn’t have plans to do any additional fencing than what has already been done
out there. It wasn’t a condition of the Preliminary Plat for either side we were just
required to fence our boundaries. I think for your standpoint that’s a reasonable
request from you guys to have us fence off the ditch for safety purposes. All is I
would request is that we somehow esthetically put it so it looks nice. Chainlink
isn’t the prettiest fence that there is and it also it needs to be chain linked so that
the Irrigation District can access it, maintain around it and it needs to be in
removable bollards. I guess the only part you would be fencing would be if you
see the Lakes at Cherry Lane No. 9 fence on the south side it would have to
come straight across to the chainlink in Wilkins Ranch. There would still be a
portion of the ditch that would be open. I guess if you did come back to do the
modification you could look at some alternative designs. I mean even I don’t
know how much it would cost to tile just back to that fence part but you know the
concern is how close it is off the road and the kids walking on the sidewalk to and
from school. Those are a lot of the major issues but if you come back to modify
your findings that you could bring a couple of solutions that would be the ideal.
Then you would have some ideas on how you could esthetically make that so it’s
(inaudible) to the developer.
Arnold: And Mr. Mayor, Councilwoman de Weerd that’s something that we would
certainly look at. The problem is we would end up – if we did that I’m not sure
how we would pipe it and coordinate that with irrigation box that could become
expensive. The other issue is that won’t happen this year the coordination – by
the time I get you a modification, you guys approve that, say go ahead and build
that and Nampa Meridian accepts it we’re going to have live water in there and it
won’t happen this year. What we could do is we will supply Nampa Meridian the
pipe and then I don’t want to bond for fencing for another year but we can
certainly look at some options.
De Weerd: I’m sure you can discuss it with staff and just see what direction you
want to go. Just do something.
Arnold: We’ve been ready to do something for over a couple of years now. It’s
this interagency we’re getting stuck in the middle and (inaudible) would have I
think in hindsight would have preferred me just to go build it and not ask Nampa
Meridian for their approval. I didn’t think that was the right thing to do. If it is the
direction of the Council tonight that we do request that to be modified, I’ll certainly
put an application in ASAP and with that application we’ll have some design
proposals.
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April 1, 2003
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De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I guess that would be my opinion but then that opens up the Staten
Subdivision as well. Why should they have to do a pathway on their side of the
ditch so Brad if you can kind of put fillers out on that one too. I mean they’re
going to have a pathway that goes nowhere and that’s certainly not, what we’re
trying to create so just work with staff.
Corrie: That would be really useless to have a pathway that isn’t going
anywhere. You know what the old saying between a rock and a hard place
means –
Arnold: I’m there.
Corrie: -- you (inaudible). Okay Brad if you’ll work with Mr. Arnold and let’s see
what we can do. I know that this year is going to be difficult because the water
has been started already. If that meets with the Council’s approval we’ll have,
those people meet and then we can get back to an agenda to see what we can
do with the modification.
Arnold: Sounds great.
Corrie: Thank you.
Arnold: Thank you.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I guess it’s just important for the neighbors to know if there’s going to
be a pathway there or not and you know some of the things that you’re doing. I
don’t know on the Cherry Lane side or on the Wilkins Ranch side but you might
work with them on some esthetic options and include them in what you’re trying
to do.
Arnold: We’ll certainly work – I know we’ll be working with them I’ve had phone
calls as well as you have.
De Weerd: Okay good. Thanks Steve.
Corrie: Thanks Steve.
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Item 5. Discussion of Due Structure for ACCEM (Ada City – County
Emergency Management):
Corrie: Okay the next one is the discussion of due structure for Ada County
Emergency Management. We have with us Clair Bowman. Clair would you like
to kind of give us an update on Ada County and what they have said that they
would like to do and we can kind of due a quick synopsis here. Then we’ll get on
with the Regular Meeting.
Bowman: Mr. Mayor Members of the Council for the record I’m Clair Bowman
address is 4400 Legacy Lane Meridian, Idaho. I’ve had several conversations
over the past two weeks with individual members of the Ada County
Commission. Each of them individually has indicated to me they intend to have
an action item on their agenda as soon as they’re all back in the office together at
the same time to withdraw their – well to reassert the county’s direct
management of the Emergency Management Program. For the past 13 years,
they have delegated that responsibility to COMPASS. In the arena now where
we are a two county agency and that is still a one county function. They are now
of the opinion that appears that it’s time to take that back and I am supportive of
that action for the Council. In fact, we’ve been trying to work that out for six
months now. My understanding at this point is that they will continue to seek to
fund Emergency Management in the same manner it has been funded. That is
through having the cities, the county, and the Ada County Highway District pay a
proportionate share based on population. The approximate proportionate share
would be 29 cents per person within the city limits. I don’t know where they will
end up on how much they are going to fund of it but it is clearly my understanding
after my conversations that they intend to continue the arrangement of having all
of the general purpose governments plus the Ada County Highway District and
Ada County collectively support the Emergency Management Program. That’s
probably as far as I’m at liberty to comment since I’m not one of the County
Commissioners.
Corrie: Okay so it looks like under that due structure that the group has done
COMPASS has done that only Ada County solely generating the members would
be take for instance Meridian with the census of April 1, 2000 that’s 2003 correct.
Bowman: Yes.
Corrie: (inaudible) 2002 here. We’re at 39,744 so that the dues for Meridian
would be 29,808 dollars and then our part of the Emergency Management would
come to about 11,526?
Bowman: That’s correct.
Corrie: Okay.
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April 1, 2003
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Bowman: And the rest of that would be for COMPASS general membership
dues.
Corrie: Right and that’s not including Canyon County that’s just Ada County.
Bowman: That’s correct. It’s taking the Emergency Management local funds that
are currently used in our budget and spreading them across the Ada County
Members the county the six cities and the Ada County Highway District to
generate that same revenue takes about 29 cents per person from each
jurisdiction.
Corrie: Okay any questions?
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I guess the bottom line is while we’re paying for COMPASS and the
Emergency Management are our dues going to increase?
Bowman: Mr. Mayor Councilwoman de Weerd you’ve been paying 75 cents in
the past. This year that is split 46 cents for COMPASS non Emergency
Management and 29 cents for COMPASS Emergency Management Program. I’ll
anticipate you’ll continue to pay those 29 cents to the Ada County Commission
for Emergency Management and the 46 cents would continue to come to
COMPASS. The rate should not go up however, the Executive Committee had a
discussion about what that should be and for preliminary budgeting purposes, I
agreed to use 50 cents for the COMPASS general membership dues indicating a
four cent per person increase. On 40,000 people that’s about a 1600-dollar
increase for the City of Meridian over what’s in that spreadsheet. The Executive
Committee sitting as the policy Guidant’s for our next year’s budget on which I
think you’re participating if I’m not mistaken I know the Mayor is. If they tell me to
stick in 46 cents, I will do that and I’m fine financially at that level.
De Weerd: Okay.
Corrie: Okay.
De Weerd: Thank you Clair.
Corrie: Thank you Clair. Any other questions?
Bird: I have none Mayor.
Corrie: Okay well that concludes our Pre-Council Agenda on – only five minutes
late. I will entertain a motion to close the Pre-Council Meeting at this time.
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De Weerd: So moved.
McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Motion made and second to close the Pre-Council Meeting any further
discussion. All those in favor say aye. All ayes motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 7:07 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
APPROVED:
/ /
ROBERT D. CORRIE, MAYOR DATE
ATTESTED:
WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., CITY CLERK