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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2003 08-12 Pre Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting August 12, 2003 The Pre-Council Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:30 P.M. on Tuesday, August 12, 2003, by Mayor Robert D. Corrie. Members Present: Mayor Robert Corrie, Tammy de Weerd, Keith Bird, Bill Nary, and Cherie McCandless. Others Present: Bill Nichols, Kenny Bowers, Joe Silva, Anna Powell, Brad Hawkins-Clark, Doug Strong, Diane Stewart, and Will Berg. Item 1. Roll-call Attendance: X Tammy de Weerd X Bill Nary X Cherie McCandless X Keith Bird X Mayor Robert Corrie Corrie: I will open the Pre-Council Meeting Agenda on Tuesday, August 12, 2003 at 6:30 P.M. in the City Council Chambers. We would like to have roll call attendance please Mr. Clerk. Item 2. Adoption of the Agenda: Corrie: Adoption of the Agenda. Council what’s your pleasure? Bird: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I move that we adopt the agenda as published. De Weerd: Second. Corrie: Motion made and second to adopt the agenda as published. Any further discussion. All those in favor say aye. Opposed no. All ayes motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Item 3. Continued from July 1, 2003 Pre-Council Meeting: Discussion of 2000 Edition of the International Fire Code with Joe Silva: Corrie: Item Number 3 is continued from July 1, 2003 Pre-Council Meeting discussion of the 2000 Edition of the International Fire Code with Joe Silva. Joe you’re on. Silva: Thank you Mr. Mayors Members of the Council. This evening I’m pleased to bring to you for consideration adoption of the International Fire Code. Just Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting August 12, 2003 Page 2 of 13 st some background, we were required as of July 1 to adopt it. We were requested to adopt it by State Statute. It was the intent of the State Fire Marshal when he adopted it that it would become the minimum standard for the entire state. It eliminates some conflicting provisions of the Building Codes and some other codes that the State had adopted so that was the legislative intent when it was adopted by the state. With that being said, just kind of a quick thumbnail sketch of what’s being done locally. The City of Nampa, Caldwell, and all of the local fire districts have already adopted it. Boise City has had it go through two readings and it was requested to be pulled by the Fire Department as a result of a small provision in the daycare inspection process. We’re just requesting – we want to stand for questions with any questions you may have about the adoption or any amendments that we’ve included in our adoption document. Bird: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: Seeing how I was the one that was the most against it. I believe the Legislature put this forward for small districts that didn’t have Fire Codes. Joe I want you to tell me what advantage this helps our builders, our owners, is it going to save in insurance money. What is the advantage to adopting the International 2000 Fire Code? Silva: There are several. Probably yes in all accounts. Number 1 we will receive additional points from the Insurance Rating Bureau for having adopted the most recent issue of the Fire Code. Two it was the intent of – we did make contact with Michael Gifford out of the Associate General Contractor’s and I shared with you just an email that was sent to me. It’s got two things on the International Fire – their position on the International Fire Code and there’s another issue that we’ll refer to later in our agenda. Basically, their position was they had no specific objection to us adopting the International Fire Code. One of the advantages, one of the specific advantages to the development community is that when we’re approached by national organizations national companies who want to build here who have in house architects they are typically more familiar with the International Fire Code because it’s been a uniformly developed code. There’s been in the past three model codes enforced in the United States and we’ve been finally able to narrow that down to one Fire Code and Building Code. It allows to development in the design community particularly to be familiar with our design requirements as a result of adopting the International Fire Code. A company based in Florida who has got in house design professionals can have immediate access to knowledge of how the Fire Code, the Building Code or the nuances within it. Bird: Joe that is my exact argument is why does Meridian, Idaho have the same Fire Code as New York City who has – I don’t think you’ll ever see 40 or 50 story building in Meridian, Idaho. It’s all together a different deal. I’m not for this International stuff you have to – you look at your area and go from there. As far Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting August 12, 2003 Page 3 of 13 as AGC, which I was a member of, for 42 years they don’t they take – very rarely will they take a stance on anything. That’s what they’re – they’re not for that. They’re doing the deals there. I don’t know how the rest of the Council Members feel but I don’t like getting threatened by the State of Idaho which I understand and I can’t find any place that says what the penalty is if we don’t adopt it. I think the old Fire Code that we were working under I don’t see where this one is any different other than like you said we probably upgraded to some of the things that the big cities that we will never use nor hope we don’t use. I have a real problem with them telling me that I have to adopt an International Code for my area. I think each area is different. If you look at an architects and I’ve dealt with hundreds of them over the years this area is unique because we have such a range degree range. We can be 110 and we can also be 20 below in one year. These architects that come out of California and Florida and all of that they don’t know what a 20 degree difference is. I have a real problem with it but let the other Council people see what they want to do. I don’t like being threatened and I don’t see where it’s necessary to do it. Silva: Councilman Bird basically it provides us the ability to reference certain issues that a specific project may have to deal with out of chapters that uniformly identified throughout the United States. That’s the advantage to the design professionals. Quite frankly, when a company like Wal-Mart comes to town I’ve sat in those development meetings where they will – it’s about an hour to an hour and a half meeting where they’re just asking us specific questions and nuances about the things that are unique about our local adoption of our Building Code and Fire Code. We just want to be prepared to be able to deal with national companies that come to town with projects that are unique. Basically, that’s it. Bird: And Joe you’re 100 percent right. I’ve sat in on a lot of pre-construction meetings with national chains and stuff. They do want to know but they also – I would hate – I don’t think every city has adopted this International Fire Code. I would be real shocked that they were. The only reason it came up in Idaho is strictly to get the Legislature saw some of the small districts that had no Fire Code at all which you guys are well aware of and this is the way they had of getting them to adopt a Fire Code. I think every district should have a Fire Code but I think we’ve got a sufficient Fire Code for the area of Meridian, Idaho. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: Is there something in it specifically Keith that you don’t like? Bird: No I just don’t like being threatened as I said and I don’t think it’s necessary to have it. I don’t see where it’s any better than the one we’re working under other than the fact that it’s added up some things. As far as the fees and stuff go, we can adopt that. We can adopt that under the existing code. Fees have nothing to do with an International Fire Code as far as I’m concerned. Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting August 12, 2003 Page 4 of 13 De Weerd: Mr. Mayor I had received a phone message from John Eaton with BCA. He had mentioned and I didn’t really pay attention to the message because I was doing something so I meant to listen to it later. It’s probably not a good thing to admit. Nary: Is this recording? De Weerd: But in essence, he did say that he was not opposed to it. He did not want to make an official stance because the development council had not made any official motion on it or had any official discussion. The Building Contractor’s nationally helped sponsor and write this code. The also did not have any problem with it being passed by the State of Idaho. One thing he did say is that what they would appreciate is the uniformity among all the municipalities. Instead of having to go into one municipality and find out okay what’s different from your code from the next code. They just like the standard adoption of the same code in the different cities. I think where it would apply to New York City it certainly wouldn’t apply to Meridian because we don’t have a lot of things that that code addresses for New York City. I see the benefits and I don’t know if it would ever come back to bite us that if we didn’t adopt this code it would make us less eligible for grants or anything else. I don’t see any specific reasons and nothing has been pointed out to me that would say this is what’s different in the code, I don’t like it and I don’t think Meridian needs it. I don’t see why we shouldn’t adopt it like the other cities have. Silva: Mr. Mayor Members of the Council basically what we’re looking at is a realignment of Chapter for all intensive purposes. Our suggested adoption document really on reflects what we’ve already adopted what was already in the state adoption and has been in a series of adoptions. There really are no changes to any great degree. It’s just a chapter (inaudible) basically, it’s the biggest thing that we’ve had in a comparison from one code to the other realignment of chapter numbers. Corrie: Joe what cities in the Treasure Valley here have adopted this code? Silva: Caldwell, Nampa, Boise had to go through two readings and then it was pooled at the request of the Fire Department because of some small concerns over daycare inspections. That was the only reason it was called. It had already gone through two readings at that point so we would be the only agency in the valley here that would not have adopted the international. Bird: Has Eagle and Kuna adopted it? Silva: They have adopted it by virtue of the fact that the State Fire Marshall adopted it for them. They are a fire district so we would be the only agency that had not adopted it. Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting August 12, 2003 Page 5 of 13 Bird: None of the cities in Ada County have adopted it though? Silva: Yes sir. Boise City has not. It went through two readings and then it was pulled on the third reading just to work out some small details of the daycare inspection process. Corrie: Any other comments? Other discussion? De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I guess I would suggest that it be put on a Regular Council Agenda for action by Council. Corrie: Okay Mr. Nichols I think you have the ordinance already don’t you? Nichols: Mr. Mayor and Members of the Council we’ve got the ordinance. I thought we had done a summary but perhaps we haven’t so this gives us a chance to do the summary before next week and get that out. De Weerd: Thanks Joe. Corrie: Any objections. Bird: Do you need a second? No, I have no objections. Corrie: No they can just put it on the agenda if there are no objections by the Council. Item 4. Presentation / Discussion of Design for Centennial Park by Doug Strong: Corrie: Presentation / Discussion for Design for Centennial Park by Doug Strong. Strong: Mr. Mayor Members of the Council I appreciate the opportunity to come and talk to you about some design proposals – two design proposals that we have for Centennial Park. The reason I feel this is necessary is that early on in the process we in discussing what would need to be done to this area there was early discussion about the property being purchased for a parking lot in the downtown area. As we’ve looked at the area and its proximity to the Boy’s and Girl’s Club and potential uses of the area, we’ve tried to come up with designs that would enhance parking in the downtown area and also make a nice small pocket park useable by the Boy’s and Girl’s Club. There are a couple of considerations that I would like Council to take in tonight so that can give us some guidance for further design so we can complete the park. I also want to Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting August 12, 2003 Page 6 of 13 mention that since we first started talking about this project we have two local developers that are interested in essentially paying for the development for this park. It would be a really good thing to happen. Our first proposal I guess the reason I put this up first is this is what I would suggest would be the most desirable way to develop the park. Please understand it this comes from the standpoint of being a Park and Recreation Professional where my purpose in life is to preserve green space. What you see on this design is essentially angle parking around what we’ll car Centennial Park. Along Idaho Street, we’ll add angle parking. We’ll put in sidewalk and curbing consistent to what’s going on rd down the street in front of the Boy’s and Girl’s Club on to the east. On 3 Street, rd we would do a cut in into the park to also provide angle parking along 3 Street. I hope – can everybody see that. Do I have to talk to this microphone? Bird: Yes you have to. Strong: Okay well I can’t come up there. De Weerd: You can take the microphone Doug. Bird: It comes out. Strong: Good this will make it easier to point to things. This might make a little more sense. No matter where I go, I’m going to be in someone’s way. This area right here is the Boy’s and Girl’s Club building or the old police station. This area is an area in between the Boy’s and Girl’s Club and the building next door. The reason you see green there we’re proposing this as a passive use area that would be tables, grass, and just kind of a passive use area. Originally we were talking about making this area a basketball area but decided being on the site that it’s very tight, it’s very hot on hot days and it would also make a lot of racket for the people next door the balls banging against the walls and things like that. In this design, we’ve moved the basketball area out into the park. This is that large tree that’s in the park that shades much of this parking lot and this end of the park. If we put the basketball area out into the park like this, there’s also room for a volleyball area here that would have standards placed in the ground that you could – places for standards to be placed in the ground so you can take the standards out. When they’re not there, it’s an essentially grassy open space. The sidewalk would continue along in here with the curb cut in and then this would preserve – this area here would preserve another tree that we want to save in the park. Then I believe we’re going to save one or two trees along the alley way here. Around the tree as you can see in this area this is outside the drip line of that large tree so we can protect the root system and not lose the tree. We’ll have pads there for the round cement tables and benches that we’ve had stored in the old fire station until recently that need to go somewhere. This seemed like a good place for them. What this does it gives us 13 additional parking spaces along Pine Street. There are 14 across the street in front of the rd church and then six more parking spaces along 3 Street. That’s Plan A. Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting August 12, 2003 Page 7 of 13 Corrie: Let me ask a question Doug. That 13 parking stalls there on the north side and the church has it on the north side is there going to be enough room for cars to go by there? Strong: There will be. Corrie: There will be to go – okay. Strong: These stalls are already there right in front of the old police station. Corrie: They’ll take those out though – Strong: They’ll stay. What we do is just continue angle parking right on down the street with new sidewalk and curbing. Corrie: I thought you were going to have a drop off place there no parking. Strong: What we’re proposing is that two stalls right here in front of the Boy’s and Girl’s Club would be identified as drop off stalls only since there is a lot of people coming and going dropping off children at the Boy's and Girl's Club. Corrie: Oh okay so two of them would be. Strong: Yes we wouldn’t – there was some discussion whether there was room to make a pull through but there’s not because of this driveway right here. There are 24 spaces 23 spaces in the existing parking lots in addition to the 13 that would be added here and the six here. It provides quite a lot of parking around that. In the times, that we’ve been there this parking lot in between the buildings has never been even half full. Another thing that we’re proposing in this is vacating these parking spaces on this side of the parking lot and this side of the parking lot to make a crosswalk for kids to cross from the building to the park area from the Boy’s and Girl’s Club. Just a designated yellow marked or lined crosswalk area. In this area in between the buildings here would also be further developed. This is where there’s a loading dock and kind of covered area that there are some tables here now. This area has a light pull in here and I think there’s an old tether ball and some things that we would improve that area for additional like four square play areas and things like that for four square if you’re familiar with that kids’ game. Corrie: Thank you. McCandless: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. McCandless. McCandless: Doug why do you need so many parking places there? Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting August 12, 2003 Page 8 of 13 Strong: Well the original intent of this property was for downtown parking to encourage downtown parking. McCandless: Oh I see. I got you I just thought it was parking for the Boy’s and Girl’s Club. Strong: No it’s for downtown parking. You’ll see the next proposal is more parking still, which takes away green space. This area here now is about .44 acres of open play area that we’ll see with this design. Nary: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: Doug I think it’s on your second one as well so if you want to talk about it now but you have that memorial wall there. I don’t know what that is. Strong: That’s a proposal by the two people the two developers that want to build a park. It’s just a proposal right now. They feel that there’s nothing in Meridian that recognizes Meridian residents who have lost their lives in any of the wars since I think either World War II or Korea some – they want to go back some space in time. They haven’t decided that yet. The names on the memorial wall would be just those individuals from Meridian who have lost their lives not all veteran from Meridian but a memorial for those veterans. That’s the proposal. This area of that park would be a nice area for that. It’s right in the corner and it’s adjacent to the street parking and this parking lot. It’s an area that would have not much other use. When we first started looking at this area and we first went out there for the small group that met, there we were talking about a parking lot like this in the park. We didn’t know the dimensions of the park at that time or how much of the park it would take away but now we have good survey information and a designed to skill. The impact would be is that we’ve reduced the green space from .44 acres to .31 acres of green space, which leaves just barely enough room for a volleyball court in here. There would be no room for a basketball play area in the park. De Weerd: We can’t tell what design you would prefer. Strong: You can’t tell what? De Weerd: Can’t tell what design you prefer. Nary: That looks like a parking lot that has a park in the middle of it. I like the park that looks like it has a parking lot next to it. Strong: You’re confused about my preference? De Weerd: No, I don’t think so. Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting August 12, 2003 Page 9 of 13 Nary: She heard all the (inaudible). Strong: Okay good. I knew that you were yanking my chain there. This is what we’re looking for so that you don’t think that we abandoned your original intent of this area. I want to propose to you these two options. For the area right now and the way that it’s typically used in the downtown area there’s – when you go there at different times of the day there doesn’t seem to be much parking in this area at all. I imagine that’s different on Sunday’s during church time and probably the only time of the week that that area’s really impacted for parking. I don’t have any other information than my observation of there area so I don’t know if there’s anything else. What this plan does, just to make a long story short is add 10 more spaces than the other plan. You gain 10 more spaces. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I like your first plan Doug. Just to comment about that area between the two buildings. I know this year it was a little bit too late but we also had talked about utilizing that area for a master gardener’s type of project with the Boy’s and Girl’s in the club. Maybe we could do a stone path through that so that people could cut from one end to the other but leave that end maybe raised beds or something that they can have summer projects to grow things. I know they did that this year down at the Garden City Club and it has truly been a hit to many of these kids who have never grown a thing to see what a little TLC to a plant does and what it produces. You might consider that as well. I agree with you, right now until we have some more renewal in downtown, these parking spots won’t be overly used. Even at that point, we consider designating just some staff parking for the Boy’s and Girl’s Club and just leave it public parking on the other areas. I think you’ve come up with a great plan and it looks wonderful. Corrie: Doug I had a question. On the second one, you’re taking out the basketball part. If you went with that one could you put your basketball part in that parking lot up front up here and not park back in there. Every time I go in there there’s kids galore in there and it’s not going to be good to have cars backing out with all those kids because they don’t pay any attention. If you did this, could you use that second half of the parking lot behind the building as a basketball court or something in that nature? If you went with that or are you going to go with first one originally too. When you have cars back in there I found out that the kids when you try to back out they don’t pay attention to you and somebody could get hurt in a car and kids. That many kids and there’s going to be more and more all the time. If you could just limit that front part as parking and they couldn’t park back there and the kids could play basketball or games or whatever they wanted and still use your first choice as parking. Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting August 12, 2003 Page 10 of 13 Strong: Mr. Mayor actually to respond to a couple of your comments. This area right in here has been discussed as being like a raised garden area kind of passive activity area for flower beds and other activities like that that would encourage some horticulture activity. The two developers that are interested in this project liked that idea very much and would help develop that. This area here that you’re talking about I just counted the spaces there are 10 spaces there. If we vacated this, what we would be doing is giving up the 10 spaces that we gained by putting the parking lot in the park. It’s kind of a toss of the coin with that. This area has been discussed because it (inaudible) often many cars park back in here. As an area where we would mark out like four square play areas and that kind of thing. You could actually during the day if there’s not much activity cone off right across here to discourage anybody from parking back there until the parking is needed. This back lot area is not often used like you’ve just described. That could be a management decision by the people at the Boy’s and Girl’s Club depending on what’s going on. If you needed the parking then it would be available. I could go either way but like I say, it would be kind of a toss of the coin. The first plan what it does is preserve more open space or green space. It doesn’t every prevent someone in the future if an additional part downtown parking is needed and this was the site for that for the whole lot to be made a parking lot as things change in that area. We feel that this proposal is the best, most logical proposal for now. Bird: I have to agree with you. Nary: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: Yes I guess the only part of it that is of any concern to me Doug is that rear parking. It just appears to me that whether – it appears right now that the 13 stalls that are going to be built they could be built along the north side of the street and the six stalls. I don’t know whether or not there’s any other configuration that would work or whether if you made that a little bit larger. I just think it doesn’t make sense to have half of that parking lot even available for parking. You want kids to cross in it. They’re already using it now like that anyway and having a play area. It doesn’t make sense to me like the Mayor suggested to having cars even have the ability to park in that space. Trying to trade off some of that – I mean whether there’s parking on the opposite side, something seems better, or at least in the future, you know there’s obviously some capability in the future. Even with a basketball, court there that if we wanted to expand the parking at some point in the future there is still some space over here if that’s necessary. I guess I don’t see that – I think this still enhances what’s there but I guess I just look at that back part. I just would be real concerned. The only other thing I would think is having this – I like the garden idea of this – about the middle and having a walking path or whatever in there. I just think you’re going to need something to discourage foot traffic you know Saturday night foot traffic through that area. You don’t want to necessarily Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting August 12, 2003 Page 11 of 13 encourage people through that at night in the like so you might need some type of street barrier from the street through there. Strong: There has been discussion of a requirement for fencing along the street. I think we would have to put up some kind of fencing there. I’m not sure what the requirements – just for that reason. I understand it can’t be chain link fencing it has to be something that meets current City Code. I’m not sure what that is but there would have to be some barrier put up. Bird: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: Doug I think you need on that one particular item there I think you need to talk to the Police Department. I think they want a chain link no, if ands or buts they want to be able to see through as they drive by. Nary: Yes, they won’t want a hiding place – Bird: You don’t want a hiding place in there and this might be one exception to the ordinance. We have to because of safety reasons. De Weerd: You could put a see through picket. Bird: They want a chain link and I think Mark down there got us a price on the chain link. Strong: Chain link would make the most sense for visibility. Rod iron might work too it would be more expensive. Nary: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: Yes and you may want to have just some sort of – if you decide not to use that whole parking lot or take half of it I would really encourage something to keep a lot of traffic away from where the kids are going to cross. Maybe if the Fire Department needs bollards or something so they can make sure they can get the fire truck the entire way in that lot if they need to. They can have bollards or something to keep half of the -- or a third of a lot free from cars. You would still have a safe way to cross over to the park. Corrie: They could work that out at the club yes. Strong: Mr. Mayor Members of the Council I guess what we want tonight is your feelings of which direction you would like to see this go. Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting August 12, 2003 Page 12 of 13 Corrie: Personally I liked the Number 1 there. Nary: The one you like. De Weerd: Yes, the one you like. Corrie: It makes it easier that way. Strong: I do like opinions thank you. Corrie: As long as you have enough space for cars to go there on Idaho. Nary: Right. Corrie: And I’m sure the church and that will like it on Sunday’s because they fill up the parking lot and up in front and everything else. They couldn’t park out there in front supposedly. Strong: Do they park there now on Sunday’s? Corrie: I don’t know I haven’t been there. De Weerd: You haven’t been there lately. Corrie: I haven’t been in town. Strong: I think people do park there it’s just not marked. Corrie: I think they do yes. I’m sure they do. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I think the Mayor raised a good point on the back half of that parking lot. You might figure that into your design and look at it for future expansion when parking is needed. Just to have that as an asphalt play area that you can do the four square type of things on. If I could make a request, could I take that to the Ada County Board Meeting tomorrow and show them? Strong: I need it tomorrow evening so if we can – De Weerd: Mine’s at noon so just so I can share that with the board. Strong: Thank you for your time. Corrie: That would be nice for them to see that though. Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting August 12, 2003 Page 13 of 13 Strong: You want just Plan A. De Weerd: Just Plan 1, A or whatever it is. The preferred plan. Strong: Thank you. Corrie: Thank you Doug. Strong: It sounds like a health plan doesn’t it. Corrie: All right that is all the agenda for the Pre-Council. I will entertain a motion to close the Pre-Council Meeting. De Weerd: So moved. Nary: Second. Corrie: Motion been made and second to close the Pre-Council. Any further discussion? All those in favor say aye. Opposed no. All ayes motion carried. The Pre-Council is closed. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES MEETING ADJOURNED AT 7:05 P.M. (TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) APPROVED: / / ROBERT D. CORRIE, MAYOR DATE ATTESTED: WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., CITY CLERK