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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2003 01-07 Meridian City Council Meeting January 7, 2003 The Regular Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:05 P.M., on Tuesday, January 7, 2003, by Mayor Robert Corrie. Members Present: Mayor Robert Corrie, William Nary, Keith Bird, Tammy de Weerd, and Cherie McCandless. Others Present: William Nichols, Brad Hawkins-Clark, Brad Watson, Ken Bowers, Mike Worley, Dean Willis, and Will Berg Item 1. Roll-call Attendance: __X Tammy de Weerd _ X__ Bill Nary __X Cherie McCandless __X Keith Bird ___X__ Mayor Robert Corrie Corrie: All right. I will open the City of Meridian City Council Regular Meeting on Tuesday, January 7, 2003, at 7:05. Mr. Clerk, if you will have the roll call attendance, please. Item 2. Adoption of the Agenda: Corrie: Okay. Item Number 2 is the adoption of the agenda. Council, any additions, or corrections to the proposed agenda? Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: It's been requested by staff to pull -- on the Consent Agenda pull Item D to 5-D for clarification on the Regular Agenda. Item D they'd like to -- or Item D on the Consent Agenda, they'd like to pull to Item 5-D on the Regular Agenda. There is a little clarification to be done. With that, I would move that we adopt the agenda. Corrie: Number 10. Bird: Item Number 10. Oh, that's right. Item Number 10 on the Regular Agenda has been requested to be moved to January 14, 2003. With that, I'd move we adopt the agenda as noted. Nary: Second. Corrie: Okay motion has been made and seconded to have -- on the Consent Agenda Item D moved to Item Number 5 and the Public Hearing on Number CUP 02-033 on the Meridian City Council Meeting January 7, 2003 Page 2 of 44 th Regular Agenda be postponed until the 14 of January. Any other corrections any other additions? Okay. Yes. Brad. Hawkins-Clark: I'm sorry, Mr. Mayor. I was just approached here at the staff desk regarding Item G -- I'm sorry, Item H, which is the CUP for Moshers Farm Subdivision, that the applicant does have one -- have one concern with one of the conditions in there. So -- it's Item Number 4 -- or Page 4 so whether or not you would like to address that tonight or table that, but they are not prepared to have that Item H approved as is. Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: Brad, do they want the item -- we can take care of this when we approve the Consent Agenda, if they want it moved to a regular item, to 5-G, so that this can be discussed, and, then, passed at that time. Hawkins-Clark: That would be great. Corrie: Okay. De Weerd: Do you include that in your motion? Bird: We have already got a motion. We can take care of that when we do the Consent Agenda. Corrie: All right any further additions or corrections? Okay. All those in favor of the revised adoption of the agenda say aye. Opposed no? MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Item 3. Consent Agenda: A. November 19, 2002 Approve minutes of Pre-Council Meeting: B. December 17, 2002 Approve minutes of City Council Regular Meeting: C. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: AZ 02- 022 Request for annexation and zoning of 119.83 acres from RUT Havasu Creek Subdivision to R-4 zones for proposed by Farwest, LLC – south of East McMillan Road and west of North Locust Grove Road: E. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP 02-028 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a Planned Unit Meridian City Council Meeting January 7, 2003 Page 3 of 44 Development with 327 single-family dwellings, one elementary Havasu Creek school, and 27 common lots for proposed Subdivision by Farwest, LLC -- south of East McMillan Road and west of North Locust Grove Road: F. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: AZ 02- 023 Request for annexation and zoning of 6.06 acres from RUT to Moshers Farm Subdivision R-8 zones for proposed by CMD, Inc. – 895 North Ten Mile Road: G. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: PP 02- 021 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 25 building lots, one existing residence and 8 other lots on 6.06 acres in a proposed R-8 Moshers Farm Subdivision zone for proposed by CMD, Inc. – 895 North Ten Mile Road: I. Sewer and Water Easement, Cooper Canyon Subdivision – Wildwood Development, LLC.: J. Water Main Easement, Silverstone Subdivision Cedar Point Building – Sundance Investments: K. Water Service Easement, Meridian High School – Joint School District No. 2: L. Water Service Easement, Locust Grove Elementary School – Joint School District No. 2: M. Sewer Easement, Lanark Lane – Ronald W. Van Auker: N. Water Easement, Lanark Lane – Ronald W. Van Auker: O. Water Easement, Lanark Lane – Ronald W. Van Auker: P. Contract for Services with AspireOn for a Career Development Training Program for the Human Resources Department: Q. Contract for Services, Storey Park Phase II – J.G.T Architecture: R. Contract for Services, Bear Creek Park Restrooms – Cole Associates Architects: S. Approve Bills: Corrie: Okay. Item 3 is the Consent Agenda. Mr. Bird. Meridian City Council Meeting January 7, 2003 Page 4 of 44 Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I would move that we approve the Consent Agenda with the changes of Item 5-D being changed to regular Item 5-D and Item H being moved to regular Item 5-H. With that I would move we approve the Consent Agenda and for the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest on all proper papers. McCandless: Second. Corrie: Okay. Motion has been and seconded. Any further discussion? Hearing none roll call vote, Mr. Berg. Roll Call: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; de Weerd, aye; Bird, aye. Corrie: Okay. All ayes. Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Item 4. Department Reports: Corrie: Item Number 4 is Department Reports. Do we have any reports from any of the departments at this point? Item 5. (Items Moved from Consent Agenda) D. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: PP 02- 019 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 328 building lots and 27 other lots on 119.83 acres in a proposed R-4 zone for proposed Havasu Creek Subdivision by Farwest, LLC -- south of East McMillan Road and west of North Locust Grove Road: Corrie: Okay. Thank you. Item Number 5 is items moved from the Consent Agenda. First is Item 5-D. This is a Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law for approval, request for Preliminary Plat approval of 328 building lots, and 27 other lots on 119.83 acres in a proposed R-4 zone for proposed Havasu Creek Subdivision. At this time we will have staff's comments. Hawkins-Clark: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, there is a Position Statement that you should have received in your packets from Bruce Freckleton, the Public Works Department. He just has proposed two modifications to the condition on Page 4 about the Sanitary Sewer Service easement there. The first change is just to add a permanent Sanitary Sewer construction easement and, then, just a clarification on the direction, it should be south boundary, not the east boundary. That was the reason for the change there, just those two items. Meridian City Council Meeting January 7, 2003 Page 5 of 44 Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: Is the applicant in agreement with that, Brad? Corrie: Is the applicant here this evening? Hawkins-Clark: Becky Bowcutt is representing the applicant. She was here a little earlier. I have not -- Corrie: Becky, on that change on the Havasu, to change it to a permanent sanitary sewer and also Havasu Falls Drive to the south subdivision changes. Does that meet the developer's representative -- Bowcutt: That's acceptable. Corrie: Anything else, Mr. Bird? Bird: That's fine. Corrie: All right. With that change, I will entertain a motion, then, for the Findings of Facts with the change. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I move we approve the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law for approval of the request for Preliminary Plat as 328 building lots and 27 other lots on 119.83 acres in a proposed R-4 zone for Havasu Creek Subdivision with the changes that were submitted and ask the Mayor to sign and Clerk to attest. Bird: Second. Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded. Is there any further discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote, please, Mr. Berg. Roll Call: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; De Weerd, aye; Bird, aye. Corrie: All ayes. Motion is carried. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES H. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP 02-031 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a Planned Unit Meridian City Council Meeting January 7, 2003 Page 6 of 44 Development for 25 single-family detached homes and 1 single- Moshers Farm family existing home in an R-8 zone for proposed Subdivision by CMD, Inc. – 895 North Ten Mile Road: Corrie: The next one -- the second one is 5-H. This is the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law for approval on a CUP -- excuse me -- for a Planned Unit Development for 25 single-family detached homes and one single-family existing home in an R-8 zone for proposed Moshers Farm Subdivision, 895 North Ten Mile Road. Brad. Hawkins-Clark: Thank you, Mayor, Members of the Council. The Conditional Use Permit findings on Page 4, Item A-2, discuss the amenities that Moshers Farm Subdivision was going to provide. Number 1 states that they are going to have expanded open space with pathways and, then, Number 2 was the playground equipment and the applicant has told me tonight that the Planning and Zoning Commission had approved, instead of playground equipment, a half court basketball court. I did not, myself, go back, and check the Findings or the minutes from the Council Meeting to see if you adopted the P&Z Commission without changing that, the P&Z recommendation. I'm not able tonight to say for sure, since I didn't have a chance to research that, but that was the reason for taking it off the Regular Agenda, it was for that change of the amenity type. If you need confirmation from staff on that, I guess I would just recommend moving this to next week's meeting, so we can do that, or it's up to you if anyone has a recollection from that meeting if that amenity was modified. Corrie: Does anybody remember? Mr. Nichols. Nichols: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, I remember some discussion about it, but I'm not -- I can look at my notes. Bird: I remember the discussion. I remember the half court basketball thing and there was a playground -- I think I remember there was playground equipment, too, also mentioned in that, but I am not -- I'm like Brad, I'm not 100 percent sure. Corrie: If you want to make sure, we can hold it until next week. I think that would probably be apropos. Okay. If we are in agreement, I will entertain a motion to do that. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I move that we table the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law for approval of CUP 02-031, to January 14, 2003. Bird: Second. Meridian City Council Meeting January 7, 2003 Page 7 of 44 Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded. Is there any further discussion? All in favor of the motion say aye. All ayes. Item Number H, the CUP request, will be tabled th until the 14 of January. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Item 6. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: PP 02-014 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 439 building lots and 50 other lots on 209.01 acres in an R-4 zone in a Planned Unit Development for Bridgetower Crossing East Subdivision by Primeland Development – northeast corner of North Ten Mile Road and West Ustick Road: Corrie: Okay. That takes care of the items moved from the Consent Agenda. Item Number 6 is the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law for approval, request for Preliminary Plat approval of 439 building lots and 50 other lots on 209.01 acres in an R- 4 zone in a Planned Unit Development for Bridgetower Crossing East Subdivision by Primeland Development northeast corner of North Ten Mile Road and West Ustick Road. This was approved on December 17, 2002. We have a request here to change the Findings of Facts. Bill, do you want to address that? Nichols: Mr. Mayor, I, actually, believe this is Mr. Hawkins-Clark's issue. Corrie: Okay. Brad. Hawkins-Clark: Yes. Thank you, Mayor, Members of the Council. The memo dated rd January 3 from myself explains the reason for this. Essentially, it was on the Consent th Agenda on December 17 and I didn't catch it and neither did some of the Council, but there was a request for this to be tabled until this meeting in order for us to review the revised plat. Essentially, what I was asking for is to just to clean up the plat to make sure we get the right plat reference in the Findings and, then, there was a few other modifications that I was proposing there. I did talk with Becky Bowcutt this evening and rd she’s reviewed my January 3 memo and is in agreement with those changes. You should have received also the hard copy of the revised Findings from Marlene St. George with the Legal department. She did go ahead and amend those Findings based rd on my January 3 memo, which Becky reviewed those Findings as well and has no problem with them. It's mainly just getting this Preliminary Plat corrected Findings in place. Corrie: And those are okay with you, Mrs. Bowcutt? Okay. Let the record show that she's nodding yes any other discussion, Council? Bird: I have none. Corrie: Okay. I will, then, entertain a motion on the revised Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law additions and approval of the Preliminary Plat at Item Number 6. Meridian City Council Meeting January 7, 2003 Page 8 of 44 Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I move that we approve the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law for PP 02- 014, request for Preliminary Plat approval of 439 building lots and 50 other lots on 209.01 acres in an R-4 zone for a Planned Unit Development for Bridgetower Crossing East Subdivision by Primeland Development. Northeast corner of North Ten Mile Road and West Ustick Road and to note that the new Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law, Order of Conditional Approval, it's revised on January 6, 2003, let that be noted and for the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest. De Weerd: Second. Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded. Is there any further discussion? Hearing none -- Nary: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: Mr. Nichols is there any necessity to have a motion to rescind the other findings or do you think this is -- Nichols: Councilman Nary, Mayor, Members of the Council, where we are primarily correcting a scrivener's error, plus there was that intervening plat, I think -- if you want to rescind, include in your motion rescission of the prior ones, that's fine, that makes it clean, that those were rescinded and these are the operative ones. Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Motion? Bird: The motion would include rescinding all previous Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and the only one that's valid is the January 6, 2003. De Weerd: Second concurs. Corrie: Okay. Motion is made and seconded to include the rescension any further discussion? Hearing none, then, roll call vote, Mr. Berg. Roll Call: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; De Weerd, aye; Bird, aye. Corrie: All ayes. Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Meridian City Council Meeting January 7, 2003 Page 9 of 44 Item 7. Resolution No. : Authorizing Code Enforcement Officers for the Planning and Zoning Department to Issue Uniform Citations: Corrie: Item Number 7 is a Resolution Number 03-397 authorizing Code Enforcement Officers for the Planning and Zoning Department to issue uniform citations. Nary: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: Mr. Mayor, I was just going to, I guess, put on the record I was the one that requested this resolution, because, as all of you know -- we also have a memo from Brad in our packets. We do have a new Code Enforcement Officer who was empowered to enforce zoning violations. What this resolution would do is simply authorize him to issue Idaho Uniform Citations, which is just tickets, if necessary. I had a conversation with Brad earlier and I think part of that process we will probably be implementing some sort of protocol process in how those get reviewed. They currently will get reviewed by our criminal prosecution division with the City Attorney's Office to get those filed with the court when necessary. They are going to work with him on implementing that protocol as to how those will get done, but this is just one step of the process giving him the authority to issue those when that's all completed. That's what this -- Corrie: Okay any other questions? Okay. Hearing none, I'll entertain a motion, then, on Resolution Number 03-397. Nary: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: I'd move the approval of Resolution Number 03-397, authorizing Code Enforcement Officers for the Planning and Zoning Department to issue uniform citations. McCandless: Second. Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded any further discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote, Mr. Berg. Roll Call: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; De Weerd, aye; Bird, aye. Corrie: All ayes. Motion is carried. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Meridian City Council Meeting January 7, 2003 Page 10 of 44 Item 8. TE 02-007: Request for Time Extension on Final Plat approval and Commercial Tire Subdivision approval of Conditional Use Permit for by Pinnacle Engineers, Inc. – southwest corner of South Meridian Road and Eight Mile Lateral: Corrie: Item Number 8 is a request for Time Extension on the Final Plat approval and approval of a Conditional Use Permit for Commercial Tire Subdivision by Pinnacle Engineers, Inc., southwest corner of South Meridian Road and Eight Mile Lateral. Brad, do you have anything to say on that? Hawkins-Clark: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, don't have much to add on this one. It's a fairly standard Time Extension request. The one change that this does include is a requested extension to the Conditional Use Permit as well. The applicant did submit an explanation of the reason for their -- for their request. The plat is shown here on the screen and, as you can see, the Pennwood Street there along the south was the subject of several conversations between the applicant and the Highway District. That's explained in their letter. Essentially, the city is looking to see Pennwood extended out, so that there is a connection to Meridian Road back into Troutner. At one point the Highway District had said they did not -- did not need that extension and so, certainly, that would have dramatically changed this and that the lot would extend all the way to the south. At this point, they have -- they are still showing the connection. The subdivision change -- the subdivision name has changed, according to the Ada County Surveyor, they couldn't use the Commercial Tire name, so that's going to be changed to Schwangfelder and there is a couple of other clean-ups that I mentioned in my January rd 3 memo. Other than that, staff is recommending approval of the Time Extension to the Council. Corrie: Okay. Is the representative of Pinnacle Engineering here? Boyle: Mayor and City Council Members, Clint Boyle, Pinnacle Engineers, 12552 West Executive Drive in Boise. Just to clarify on the name, we are trying to get creative on our subdivision names and, thus, the Schwangfelder Tire Subdivision. Actually, that is the owner of the business, that is his last name, thereby the name for the subdivision. Commercial Tire couldn't be used a fairly standard Time Extension request. The narrative that I submitted is in front of you. Basically, on the Pennwood Street has been kind of a hot topic on this project from kind of the start. It's been bantered around from Meridian staff, the ACHD staff, and gone through several discussions. ACHD -- right now the status with the developer on that is ACHD is actually negotiating with the developer in this area right here to actually purchase some of this right of way in this corner here from the developer, because they feel the developer should only be responsibility for, essentially, his half of the street, which is a half plus 12 in ACHD's mind. There has been quite a bit of dealings with ACHD on the project and that's the reason -- one of the reasons -- or the biggest reason that the project has been delayed somewhat. He is requesting a Time Extension for the plat, Final Plat, and also the Conditional Use Permit, which there are pretty much one and the same for this Meridian City Council Meeting January 7, 2003 Page 11 of 44 particular project, which is -- for the Conditional Use Permit is for a Commercial Tire store. With that, I will entertain any questions you might have on it. Corrie: Any questions from Council? Okay. Thank you. Boyle: Thank you. Corrie: Okay. With that one, Council -- Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I would move that we approve the request for Time Extension on the Final Plat approval and approval of a Conditional Use Permit for Schwangfelder Tire Subdivision by Pinnacle Engineers at the southwest corner of South Meridian Road and Eight Mile Lateral. Nary: Second. Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded. Is there any further discussion? Bird: Oh. Excuse me. One year. Corrie: One year. Okay. Any further -- okay. Mr. Berg, roll call vote, please. Roll Call: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; De Weerd, aye; Bird, aye. Corrie: Okay. All ayes. Motion to extend for one year is approved. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Item 9. Public Hearing: MI 02-012 Request for waiver of the requirement of Kent Mortensen tiling of the Rutledge Lateral by Pinnacle Engineers for – 521 West Broadway Avenue: Corrie: Item Number 9. This is a Public Hearing, request for a waiver of the requirement of tiling the Rutledge Lateral by Pinnacle Engineers for Kent Mortensen, 521 West Broadway Avenue. At this time I will open the Public Hearing on the request and ask staff's comments first. Hawkins-Clark: Thank you, Mayor, Members of the Council. The brief history on this is that the applicant did submit for a Certificate of Zoning Compliance to the Planning and Zoning Department prior to submitting for their Building Permit. In that certificate our staff stated that they would be required to tile the Rutledge Lateral there on the south side of Broadway between their property and the railroad. That was per the ordinance. Meridian City Council Meeting January 7, 2003 Page 12 of 44 After receiving that certificate, they are requesting a waiver from that ordinance. They do -- they made their case in their application to you. Staff reviewed it. We have given rd a few comments there in our January 3 memo, discussed it with the Public Works staff as well. I think it kind of raises the question in some ways of the tiling in general, but given that the existing chain link fence does provide some protection from the lateral and there is -- it's a commercial, not a residential use. Also that the Nine Mile Creek is there on the south side just probably 10, 15 feet away, so should this be tiled, you still have the potential hazard of the Nine Mile, which is open and not tiled. Essentially, staff is in agreement with the request. We have not received anything submitted formal comment wise from Nampa-Meridian Irrigation District. I have not seen that. Maybe the applicant can talk to us about that tonight, but that would certainly be an important element to hear what Nampa-Meridian has said. Finally, I think the only other item on that Head Start is also working with the city on a new project just east of this site on Broadway. The Planning and Zoning Commission has looked at Head Start's Conditional Use Permit and has recommended approval and they have also said that Head Start -- they recommended that the waiver be granted to Head Start. You will be seeing that one later on this month, but I just wanted to give you a heads up that the Commission did recommend approval of the waiver in the case of Head Start just further to the east. That's all I have. Corrie: Thank you, Brad any questions of Council? De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. th De Weerd: Brad, there is a letter from Nampa-Meridian dated December 17, but they are only stating what our ordinance is, so it really is not a comment on their opinion, other than reiterating what we are already knew. I guess, Brad, do they leave that up to the city, then, if their statement is only kind of reiterating our own policy, it would still be up to us on the Variance? Hawkins-Clark: Yes. De Weerd: Okay. Thanks. Corrie: Is the representative here? If you'd raise your right hand, please. Is the testimony you are about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Boyle: It is. Corrie: Name and address, please. Boyle: Clint Boyle with Pinnacle Engineers, 12552 West Executive Drive in Boise, Idaho. Mayor, City Council Members, it's a pleasure to be in front of you on this new Meridian City Council Meeting January 7, 2003 Page 13 of 44 year with your first Public Hearing. Hopefully, it's not -- hopefully, it's not the last, nor one that requires serious thought. This particular project is a conversion of an existing - - or what used to be an existing residence. Kent Mortensen owns the System Clean Restoration business. They have purchased the site, renovated the existing home there, and converted it into offices for their business and they also have their carpet cleaning vans and vehicles that park on the site. As far as the Zoning Certificate, we did submit the Site Plan for the Zoning Certificate, which indicated a new -- essentially, what is a new garage that would house the vehicles, so they are not out in the wind, rain, et cetera. They can pop in them in the morning and not have to scrape frost off the windows or whatever it might be and just take off to the various sites that those vans service. With that Zoning Certificate came the requirement to tile the Rutledge Lateral and maybe I can just ask the Mayor and Council Members if they have copies of the pictures that were submitted with the application as well? I have got extra copies if you don't have those pictures but I think the picture at least show the existing conditions with the Rutledge Lateral. It's an open lateral that runs quite a distance in either direction from this property as an open lateral. Beyond the Rutledge, as the staff indicated, is a service road and, then, the Nine Mile Drain. All of the properties along Broadway that have the Rutledge Lateral adjacent to their south boundary lines have actually fenced further into their property and fenced out that Rutledge Lateral and that fence line, if you look at it, is consistent pretty much the entire length along those properties. Nary: Mr. Boyle, before you go further, the photos are on our laptops, but they are too dark for us to see, so if you have those, that would be great. Boyle: If I might submit these? What I submitted to the Council is one exhibit that has the site pictures along the Rutledge Lateral and, then, another one that has an aerial overview of that area where the lateral is located. If you look at Meridian's ordinance provisions -- and I think the staff has also indicated those in their staff report. Under Section 12-4-13, Subsection A, piping of ditches, it talks about the piping of ditches and laterals. It specifically mentions an area being subdivided. If you look at my narrative under that particular category, it says that, essentially, the ditches and laterals on either side of our property or touching the property adjacent to the area being subdivided will be covered and enclosed with tiling. Obviously, we are not subdividing, this is just, essentially, a small business user that's converting an existing home into a use that is more appropriate in the area. This entire area is zoned as industrial type users, I-L zoning. As far as the other provisions of the ordinance, it does indicate that the City Council can grant waivers on an individual basis when it's found that the public purpose isn't served and there isn't, essentially, safety issues. This particular project has a relatively small amount of frontage along the Rutledge Lateral, 102 feet of length that the Rutledge is actually adjacent to this site. If you were to actually walk the boundary of the project, when you were walking along the south boundary of the project, you would be in the water of the ditch. The ditch -- this isn't a situation where the ditch is even completely on the site, the property pins, if they were set, would actually be out in the water when there is water in the ditch. Not only is the length short, but also it is an open ditch for the majority of the lane. If this section were piped, there are various issues that would come up, one of them being maintenance from Nampa-Meridian Meridian City Council Meeting January 7, 2003 Page 14 of 44 Irrigation District. The issue there is they'd have an open ditch for several hundred feet either direction, with one small segment of 100 feet that's piped. In other words, while they are mucking out or cleaning out their ditch, all of a sudden they will hit a piped section where, you know, they have got to deal with whatever trash or whatever that may be on the grates, cleaning that out and, then, back into mucking out the ditch the remainder of the way. The other item that it brings up is with fencing issues. If it's piped, then, the applicant would want to extend his fence back into the extent of his property, because the other requirement from Meridian was that not only you pipe that lateral, but extend his landscaping all the way back to his property line by piping that lateral. Obviously, for maintenance reasons, he doesn't want landscaping on the other side of the fence we would have to move that fence. Then, Nampa-Meridian is dealing with mucking out a ditch, hitting a portion that's piped and fenced out and, then, back into the mucking the ditch out again, so we will call it cleaning the ditch out. The other point is just the sure fact that as individual properties along this convert and develop, it's fragmented with all these properties, -- different properties are going to convert to industrial uses at different times. Thereby it creates a problem just engineering wise on the pipe, because they will be coming in at different elevations, there is not going to be a coordinated pipe that you might get if you were dealing with a long stretch of ditch, as you may be with typical subdivisions. It creates some engineering issues as well in coordinating how that ditch will be piped along that entire length. I have outlined all those points in my letter and we agree with the staff comments that a waiver should be granted. We would respectfully request the Council grant the waiver and, hopefully, approve their first Public Hearing project. Thank you. Corrie: You want that all in one night? De Weerd: Didn't we see him the last meeting of the year, too? Bird: Yes. Boyle: You sure did. I didn't dress up quite as nice. I figured I would start the year off right and it's downhill from here, but at least I'm starting it on the right foot. Corrie: Very good. Thank you. Since this is a Public Hearing, is there anyone from the public that would like to issue testimony? Is the testimony you are about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Buck: Yes, it is. Corrie: Thank you name and address, please. Buck: James Buck, 2895 South Slate Creek in Meridian. Ladies and gentlemen, I stand in support of this particular issue in the Variance for this tile. I don't see how the tile can be installed in small fragments, Number 1. I do have a financial interest in a small piece of property to the east. It's not the one mentioned earlier with Head Start. I don't know anything about that. My family has owned this particular property at 503 Meridian City Council Meeting January 7, 2003 Page 15 of 44 West Broadway since 1958. That property has all been residential through there, all that -- well, up until about 25 years ago when we had one commercial enterprise move in a couple of houses to the east. I know of any drownings that have ever happened in that particular ditch, but I can assure you that there is no patrol back there and that ditch certainly acts as a barrier, man-made, but very good barrier to theft and vandalism. There has been one bridge that I know of put across the ditch and that particular property owner has lost no small amount of personal property since he's done that and I'm afraid that if that whole ditch gets tiled in, that it's going to open up a lot of unwanted foot traffic that simply can't be patrolled. There is a lot of cover out there, a lot of fences to jump, things to hide behind. I think that, certainly, at this time the thing to do would be to keep that ditch open. I don't view it as a hazard for the public and there is no real public access to the roadway behind there. I believe that's all controlled by the Meridian-Nampa Irrigation, is it not? Yes so that's -- anybody back there is trespassing. I would invite any questions from any of you. Corrie: Any questions? Bird: I have none. Corrie: Okay. Very good. Thank you. Buck: Thank you, Mayor. Corrie: Is there anyone else from the public that would like to issue testimony? Okay. Hearing none, Council, any other questions that you want to ask on the Public Hearing? Okay. Then, I will entertain a motion to close the Public Hearing at this time. Nary: So moved. Bird: Second. Corrie: Excuse me. Motion has been made to close the Public Hearing any further discussion? All those in favor of the motion say aye. All ayes. Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Corrie: Comments? De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I guess I have a question for Brad. In our Comprehensive Plan don't we have a goal that states that we want to keep some of our laterals and waterways open? Meridian City Council Meeting January 7, 2003 Page 16 of 44 Hawkins-Clark: Mr. Mayor, Councilwomen de Weerd, yes, we do and it's emphasized, of course, on the natural waterways more than the man-made ones, which, you know, the Rutledge is man-made. We didn't counter the ordinance in the Comprehensive Plan in that we didn't say, you know, let's keep the laterals and the canals that are man-made open. The emphasis is on the drains, you know, on the natural waterways, but that's really the main policy that I can think of in the Comp Plan that deals with these. De Weerd: But that is why we have the Variance for these? Hawkins-Clark: The waiver is built in for certain site-specific instances. Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: Get on my soapbox again. I have real concern when we start tiling all the ditches, because we lose all our aquifer, the water that goes down, that's the way we replenish our groundwater. The 37, 38 years I have lived in Meridian, I have seen our groundwater go down and as long as it isn't a safety issue, I certainly have no concerns about tiling ditches. In fact, I think we are better off, if there is no safety reason, to leave them open. Let's get some of the groundwater back down in there. That's my feeling and, like Brad said, our ordinance does address drain ditches and -- but I think you have some laterals like Rutledge and some of these that definitely -- if they are not a safety issue, I think we ought to leave them untiled myself. Nary: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: Mr. Mayor, I think, as most everybody knows, I'm a pretty big stickler about these Variances and waivers. I think this is a circumstance where it makes more sense to leave this open than it does to close it. Actually, it creates a more attractive nuisance in closing it than it does in leaving it open. This is not an area -- I think Mr. Buck is absolutely right this is not an area that normally has any foot traffic at all. Having this closed, having it landscaped and having all the other things besides the problems Mr. Boyle raises, also provides more of an attraction for people to go there when we don't want people in that area anyway. I think it's one that probably makes a lot more sense to grant this Variance and waiver than it does to require that they tile it. Corrie: Any other comments? Okay. Hearing none, I will entertain a motion on the request. Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Meridian City Council Meeting January 7, 2003 Page 17 of 44 Bird: I would move that we approve the request for the waiver of the requirement of the tiling of the Rutledge Lateral by Pinnacle Engineers for Kent Mortensen at 521 West Broadway Avenue and for the attorney to draw up the proper papers. De Weerd: Second. Corrie: Okay. Motion and second to approve the request for waiver. Is there any further discussion? Nary: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Nary? Nary: Mr. Nichols, is there enough from the testimony to -- for the findings or do you want anything more specific than the ordinance requirements for what we need to find? Nichols: Councilman Nary, Mayor, Members of the Council, I think there is sufficient issues with regard to practicality versus the rest of the ditch that's shown in the record. Also the issue of making the area unsafe, would actually create a place for people to hide in the tile when the water wasn't in the ditch, makes it easy for trespassers to cross the ditch and onto adjoining properties. That's what I would use for findings. Nary: I was just looking at the ordinance to make sure you had enough. Fine thank you. Corrie: Okay any further discussion? Okay roll call vote, Mr. Berg. Roll Call: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; De Weerd, aye; Bird, aye. Corrie: All ayes. Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Item 10. Public Hearing: CUP 02-033 Request for a Conditional Use Permit to open a retail shop for children’s gently used clothing, toys, etc. in an O-T Johann and Rachael Kretzschmar zone for by Johann and Rachael Kretzschmar – 124 East Pine Street: Corrie: Item Number 10, which is a Public Hearing for a Conditional Use Permit to open a retail shop for children's gently used clothing, toys, and et cetera, has been asked to th be delayed until the 14 of January, which is next week. Is there anyone here that wanted to testify at this time that cannot come back? Okay. Let it be known that the Public Hearing will be -- I will continue the Public Hearing on Item Number 10 until the th 14, if the Council so desires I will entertain a motion. Bird: And you opened the Public Hearing? Meridian City Council Meeting January 7, 2003 Page 18 of 44 Corrie: I opened the Public Hearing, yes. Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I would move that we continue the Public Hearing on CUP 02-033, the request for a Conditional Use Permit to open a retail shop for children's gently used clothing, toys, and et cetera, in an O-T zone for Johann and Rachael Kretzschmar at 124 East Pine Street to January 14, 2003. McCandless: Second. Corrie: Okay. The motion is to continue this Public Hearing until the January 14, 2003 any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion say aye. Opposed no? Motion Carried. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Item 11. Public Hearing: CUP 02-039 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a Care Center for up to 30 mildly ill children, ages two to ten years, staffed Sniffles ‘n Sneezes Care by nurses and certified nurses assistants for Center by JC Anderson, Co. – 217 East Pine Avenue and portion of 834 nd East 2 Street: Corrie: Item Number 11 is a Public Hearing. Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a child -- excuse me -- care center for up to 30 mildly ill children ages two to ten years, staffed by nurses and certified nurses assistants for Sniffles 'n Sneezes Care Center by JC Anderson, Co., 217 East Pine Avenue and portion of 834 East 2nd Street. Again, at this time I will open the Public Hearing and have the staff comments first. Hawkins-Clark: Thank you, Mayor, Members of the Council. The property of this application is at 217 East Pine Street, located there in the bold on the center of the screen. It is residential on the north. The Masonic Temple building is on this lot to the south. United Methodist Church is to the east and residential uses to the west. Here is an aerial photo that gives you a little sense of the conditions -- existing conditions out there. The site photo is here. As you can see, there is some landscaping. There are existing sidewalk, curb, and gutter around the building. It is -- the parking lot is paved. The building has some current tenants in it and, of course, the Sniffles 'n Sneezes Care Center is proposed as a new tenant. Here are some shots, again, just some different elevations of the building as it stands today. The proposed Site Plan is largely just as it's existing, 6,500 square foot building. They are proposing to use the sign that is currently out there on East Pine Street located here and the parking was reviewed by staff. They do have some parallel parking that is located here on the south. The Sanitary Service Company has also commented -- I think they are asking for a slight modification to give a little bit wider access into the trash enclosure area, but the layout Meridian City Council Meeting January 7, 2003 Page 19 of 44 here is what they are proposing in terms of a floor plan. Again, the request is for a day care to allow basically working parents an option to stay at home with their children when they are sick. It would be staffed by a nurse either an LPN or an RN for triage purposes and the primary care givers would be nursing assistants. They are requesting for, essentially, a childcare center up to 30 children between the ages of two and ten. The Planning and Zoning Commission did recommend approval. The one condition that they added, which in the recommendation that you should have, is hours of operation. They are proposing to be restricted from 6:00 A.M. until 8:00 P.M. Other than that, I think the only other thing I would add that's not in the P&Z recommendation is some of our standard childcare center conditions regarding obtaining licensing and submitting that evidence to the city. We would, essentially, treat this as a childcare center. Councilman Nary brought that up to me earlier today and I think that it's been viewed as a childcare center, but in terms of our proposed conditions, our standard conditions for childcare centers were not included there. I think we have a set of those that is typically added to childcare centers and we would just request those be included. That's all I have. Corrie: Thank you, Brad. Any questions? Nary: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: Brad, do those types of requirements require -- I notice that the Fire Department indicated that they have to be inspected as a day care center. Do those requirements you're talking about, do those include like having an outside area for the children or having some sort of -- I mean I have had sick children and they don't lay down all day, so I don't -- there is no playground, there is no nothing for this. Is that in those -- Hawkins-Clark: That's correct. That is not -- other than that there is a standard -- I believe it's -- that is used as a recommendation of the State Department of Health and Welfare that states a recommended area outside should be, you know, about one -- about 25 square foot per child. It's not a City Ordinance in terms of requiring them to have outside play areas. Nary: And I know we don't have day care licensing here in Meridian, but do we have in those standards about the number of children in the center or the number of workers there to care for them? Because we are talking potentially up to 30 children and there appears to be about three people staffing it at one time and that seems like a fairly large ratio to have one person per ten children. Hawkins-Clark: That ratio is set by the -- Nary: The state. Hawkins-Clark: -- by the state. Meridian City Council Meeting January 7, 2003 Page 20 of 44 Nary: Okay. Hawkins-Clark: Yes we don't have that in our local code either. Nary: All right. Thank you. Corrie: Any other questions? Okay. This is a Public Hearing. Is the applicant here this evening? Is the testimony you are about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Anderson: Yes, it is. Corrie: Name and address, please. Anderson: Jared Anderson. 623 East Woodbury Drive, Meridian, Idaho. Mr. Mayor, Council Members, address a couple of the questions that you just asked. There are state requirements for day care centers. There is state staffing requirements that, depending on the age, it's six children per one care giver for kids under 18 months old and 12 care givers per -- 12 children per one care giver from 18 months to five years old, and 18 children per care giver above that age. Since these are sick children, our maximum child-to-care-giver ratio is going to be seven and if they are two years old it's going to be five. I have that outlined in my guidelines for my facility, but you guys were not provided with those. The Idaho State Day Care Standards does not require an outside play area. Boise City does of 100 square feet for per child. We also looked at putting this in Boise and, actually, did get a waiver -- a Variance on that. You are correct, kids do not -- will not be lying down all day long. There will be activities indoors, but they will never be outside during their stay there. There is some play equipment inside, video games, TV's, DVD's, low activity type of play that we are proposing. The only other thing that I had in the Planning and Zoning meeting we agreed -- we didn't th have any issues with any of the staff's conditions that were in the November 18 report. However, the SSC request for enlarging the trash enclosure, the owner of the property can certainly do that. He would prefer not to, because just below the trash enclosure there are two parking spots that would eliminate one of his parking spots. Currently, the site has only 23 parking spots. The area that's marked existing buildings for main, that area has offices -- some law offices and, then, upstairs it has a second floor that has four apartments. On this end of the building where we are going, to be located it's a single-story and with as much use as he has there, he would prefer not to eliminate one of the parking spots. He has proposed increasing the frequency of pickup, if necessary and that's all I have. I will stand for any questions. Corrie: If he increases the pickup times, he will have to pay for the difference, because it will be a different -- Anderson: Yes. Corrie: Okay any questions from Council? Meridian City Council Meeting January 7, 2003 Page 21 of 44 Bird: I have none. Nary: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: Tell me again how many parking spaces. Anderson: Twenty-three. Nary: And I guess I'm curious, increasing the pickup time. It appears to me what the discussion was at the Planning and Zoning Commission was having adequate hours to make sure people -- it appears, at least, that the discussion at that point was pretty much -- initially, it was proposed that they would be done by 5:30, then, that was talked about at 6:00. Then, they gave you to 8:00 so it sounds like your expectation is that most of the pickup is still within about one hour. Anderson: When I was referring to pickup, I meant picking up the trash by -- Nary: Oh. I'm sorry. Anderson: -- SSC. Nary: The space for the -- I was talking about not losing the space and not have parking problems with the people getting picked up, all the kids getting picked up. I guess that was my concern. I misunderstood. Anderson: Okay. Nary: Mr. Mayor one other question, Mr. Anderson there isn't any problem with the P&Z requirement -- or what Mr. Hawkins-Clark was saying about adding all the conditions that the city normally has in regards to day cares and that they will comply with the state requirements for day cares and all those types of things? Anderson: I haven't seen a list of requirements that Meridian City has. I'm assuming that if they -- we were prepared to meet all the requirements that Boise City had and the state, so I would not believe that there would be a problem. Nary: Thank you. Corrie: Thank you any other questions? Thank you. Brad. Hawkins-Clark: Just for clarification on that, I think if we just added one condition, that they meet all of the State Department of Health and Welfare Day Care Licensing requirements in terms of the square footage issues. You know, the worker licensing Meridian City Council Meeting January 7, 2003 Page 22 of 44 and, you know, background checks and those kinds of things are going to be a part of that, so I think mainly we just -- that was missing from the recommendation, so I think if we just include that one we will be covered. Anderson: We are required by state law to meet those anyway, so including them is no problem. Corrie: Is there anyone from the public that would like to issue further testimony in this request? Okay. Hearing none, Council, any other questions you need to ask in the Public Hearing? Bird: I have none. Corrie: Okay. Then, hearing none, I will entertain a motion to close the Public Hearing on Item Number CUP 02-039. McCandless: So moved. Nary: Second. Corrie: Motion has been made to close the Public Hearing any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor say aye. Opposed no. All ayes. Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Corrie: Further discussion? Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Okay. Mr. Bird. Bird: I guess if we don't have any other discussion -- Corrie: It doesn't sound like it. Bird: We are not going to sit here and -- I would move that we approve CUP 02-039, the request for a Conditional Use Permit for a care center of up to 30 mildly ill children ages two to ten years old. Staffed by nurses and certified nurses assistants for Sniffles 'n Sneezes Care Center by JC Anderson Co., at 217 East Pine Avenue and portion of nd 834 East 2 Street, Meridian, and to incorporate all staff comments and for the attorney to draw up the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision and Order. McCandless: Second. Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded to approve the Conditional Use Permit by the motion any further discussion? Meridian City Council Meeting January 7, 2003 Page 23 of 44 Nichols: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Nichols. Nichols: Mr. Mayor, the Council did clarify whether they are going to allow as an alternative expanding the dumpster site in -- by having more frequent pickups as an alternative. Bird: I do agree with that, more pickups, instead of -- Corrie: Second agrees? McCandless: Agree. Corrie: Okay have those added to the motion any further discussion? Nary: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: Just to clarify, I assume, Mr. Bird, when you said to include all staff comments, that would be the Health and Welfare requirements and the day care requirements? Bird: Yes. Nary: Great. Corrie: Any further -- okay. Mr. Berg, roll call vote, please. Roll Call: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; De Weerd, aye; Bird, aye. Corrie: All ayes motion carried for Conditional Use Permit is approved. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Item 12. Public Hearing: MI 02-009 Request for adjustment of area of impact Winston between the cities of Meridian and Boise in an RUT zone for Moore by Winston Moore – northwest corner of North Eagle Road and East Ustick Road: Corrie: I hope I last through the night here. Item Number 12 is a Public Hearing. This is a request for an adjustment of the area of impact between the City of Meridian and Boise and an RUT zone for Winston Moore by Winston Moore, northwest corner of North Eagle Road and East Ustick Road. At this time I will open the Public Hearing and invite staff's comments first. Meridian City Council Meeting January 7, 2003 Page 24 of 44 Hawkins-Clark: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council. I believe that you have already discussed this in a joint meeting with the Ada County Commissioners, so I won't go into a lot of detail. You should be familiar with the property but we are talking about North Eagle Road North of Ustick on the west side of Eagle. The properties that are south are currently owned by W.H. Moore Company and the property that's in bold there on the north, it's approximately 12 acres, is the legal description area that we are specifically talking about tonight with this miscellaneous application. It is currently in Ada County. It's not been annexed by either Boise City or Meridian, but it is within Boise City's area of impact currently and, as stated by Jonathan Seel in his letter dated th September 24. The request for the area of impact modification was reviewed by Boise City and they have concluded that it was a reasonable request for them to release this property and for the City of Meridian to take it in. Essentially, this application is a requirement of the State Land Use Planning Act that requires the jurisdictions to formally adjust the area of impact boundary and so the Planning and Zoning Commission did recommend approval. We don't have any specific conditions for something like this. I think it's essentially a modification to the area of impact boundary that that change would be shown on COMPASS's maps and, obviously, other jurisdictions that are impacted. We do have, as you probably saw, a letter from the City Council from Mayor Corrie stating that the city has agreed to serve the property. I think at that point there was some discussion that it was including these 12 acres, even though it hadn't been formally changed. This is kind of finalizing and wrapping up this process of getting the area of impact line cleaned up. Thanks. Corrie: Okay. Thank you, Brad any questions from Council? Okay representative -- Mr. Seel. Is the testimony you are about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Seel: Yes, it is. Corrie: Name and address, please. Seel: Good evening, Mayor, Council Members. I think Brad has done a good job. I know we visited on the subject before, so I won't take a lot of your time, other than to say a couple things. As you recall, we have also agreed at the time it's appropriate, we will not fight the annexation, so we have agreed to that and sign that document. Also next Monday we are going in front of the City Council for Boise. Staff has told me at this point that there is no opposition to it, staff, from their position up front, but there is no indication that Boise is going to oppose it. I think at this point it's simply a movement of the area of impact. I think it will enhance the developmental as a project having it all within one city and that, obviously, is our intention so with that, I would be glad to answer any questions. I'm not sure I can add much more to it. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. Meridian City Council Meeting January 7, 2003 Page 25 of 44 De Weerd: I think we have all asked as many as we can absolutely think of, so I hate to beat a dead horse, so -- Seel: Hope it will be a live one. Thank you very much. De Weerd: Thanks for you patience. Corrie: Is there anyone else from the public that would like to issue testimony? Okay. Hearing none -- I don't believe there is any more questions that anybody needs to ask in the Public Hearing -- okay. I will entertain a motion to close the Public Hearing. De Weerd: So moved. McCandless: Second. Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded to close the Public Hearing on the request for adjustment on the impact area. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Corrie: Any further discussion? We have the pregnant pause, so, Mr. Bird, if you want to make the motion. Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I would move that we approve the request for the adjustment of the area of impact between the City of Meridian and Boise in the RUT zone for Winston Moore by Winston Moore. Northwest corner of North Eagle Road and East Ustick Road and for the attorney to draw up the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision and Order and to incorporate all staff comments. McCandless: Second. Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded for the request any further discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote, Mr. Berg. Roll Call: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; de Weerd, aye; Bird, aye. Corrie: All ayes. Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Item 13. Public Hearing: MI 02-011 Request to remove certain parcels in Dunbar Packard Estates Subdivision from City of Meridian’s area of impact for Meridian City Council Meeting January 7, 2003 Page 26 of 44 Estates Dev., LLC by Packard Estates Dev., LLC – south of East Ustick Road and west of North Cloverdale Road: Corrie: I certainly appreciate everybody for sitting through all of this. I think that either one of two things that you're waiting for and maybe that or the election of officers and I think it's the next one on the agenda. This is going to be a Public Hearing, request to remove certain parcels in Dunbar Estates Subdivision by the City of Meridian's area of impact -- oh, from the City of Meridian's area of impact for Packard Estates by Packard Estates, south of East Ustick Road and west of North Cloverdale Road. At this time I will open the Public Hearing and invite staff comments first, Brad. Hawkins-Clark: Okay. Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, the application before you is for 75.8 acres by Packard Estates Development. The property that is outlined on the screen is different than what were shown in the application that was submitted. This was brought up in the Planning and Zoning Commission Hearing. There is a one-acre parcel that is here on the northeast corner and the southwest, both of those were originally shown in the application and were included in the legal notice that were sent out. We did the 300-foot mailing notice based on that, but it was -- that was cleaned up at the Planning and Zoning Commission, so we are not talking about those two parcels at the northeast and southwest. It is just this shaded area that's shown on the screen right now. The request is to be removed from the City of Meridian's area of impact and th be added into Boise City's area. The staff -- we did prepare a December 5 memo, which you should have in your packets, that gives a little bit more of a background and summary to some of those utility issues out there. The City of Boise is to the north of Ustick Road. Current city limits -- the City of Meridian has not annexed any property on the east side of Eagle Road, which is shown here on the left part of the screen. All of this property is currently Ada County. The majority of it you can see is some rural residential and other sections of land parcels that are just out there, that are designated various things in our Comprehensive Plan, mostly a mixed use in this area. The City of Boise does have the ability to sewer the property today, both down Ustick Road, as well as generally, I believe, it's down this street here that abuts the eastern boundary. The Public Works Department did do a little bit more research since the Planning and Zoning Commission Hearing and has stated that the South Slough project, the South Slough extension project is, as you know, well underway. It's determined that this property could be able to be served by the South Slough extension in the future. At rd your September 3 meeting, the Council did briefly discuss this subject and, basically, just required that the applicant go through this miscellaneous application process and so that's why you're having it now as a formal application. The whole issue of whether to -- how to amend the area of impact boundary is talked about in State Code and, interestingly enough, it doesn't talk a whole lot about where sewer and waterfall into the picture, although that seems to be the driving factor for how these boundaries are set. It does -- it does state that there are three areas to look at when it comes to adjusting an area of impact, the trade area, geographic factors, and those areas that can reasonably be annexed in the future. Those are kind of the three areas that the State Statute doesn't really give more explanation on that, but I did kind of give a little narrative on that in that December memo. We, as staff, do feel that there is some reasonableness to Meridian City Council Meeting January 7, 2003 Page 27 of 44 annex into the City of Meridian in the future, although, it certainly can be argued that Boise City can annex it quicker, because they are contiguous today. Staff is recommending that it remain in Meridian's area. The Planning and Zoning Commission did recommend approval of the request to be removed and that's kind of where it stands right now so, unless you have any other questions, that's all I have. Corrie: Okay any questions from Council? De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I think at one point we had asked in some of these parcels in question for our City Engineers to get together with the City of Boise and find out how they could best serve these areas that were in question. I am assuming, because of staff's recommendation of denial, it was decided through those meetings that it can be served in the City of Meridian and the decision was to recommend keeping it in our area of impact. Is that assumption correct? Smith: Mr. Mayor and Council Members, we did meet with Boise City Public Works Department and we did discuss the common boundary -- area of impact boundary between Boise and Meridian and this was one parcel that was part of that discussion. At the time of that discussion we weren't certain about the serviceability to Meridian. Boise did indicate at that meeting that they could serve this parcel. Subsequent to that meeting we have -- Brad Watson, our City Engineer, has submitted a map to Boise for their review of the entire boundary line between our two area of impacts and he has had conversation with one of their staff members in the Public Works Department since that time. That staff member indicated to him that he needed to get input from the Police and Fire Department concerning that boundary line adjustment, the entire length of that boundary line and at this point in time we have not heard back from Boise. Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: Gary, that would run the South Slough three-quarters of a mile -- I guess about three-quarters of a mile passed Eagle Road or pretty close to it, a piece of property is about a quarter mile off of Cloverdale Road. Smith: Councilman Bird, Mayor and Council, that -- where the arrow is on the screen right now is Eagle Road and Cloverdale is on the other side of the picture, which is a mile. The line that would serve this property would enter at approximately the half mile point from Eagle Road to the east, just about a half -- I guess it's about the mid section line going north and south also. Bird: We do have some water down there already to the funeral home right? Meridian City Council Meeting January 7, 2003 Page 28 of 44 Smith: Correct. We have water to the Summers Funeral Home. I think it's just -- right there. Is that -- I think that's the lot that Summers Funeral Home is on so we have it to the east side of that lot. Bird: Is that a big enough line -- is that a big enough system to do that subdivision or would you have to put a new one in for the subdivision? Smith: I can't say for certain, Councilman Bird. You know, typically, I guess on a development this size it could be a little iffy running a -- it's a 12-inch line in Ustick Road, but in terms what the capacity -- fire flow capacity would be, by the time you got to the south boundary of this development I couldn't say for sure. Bird: And this is the line that's going out across Eagle and services the north 40 there and also run on out to -- is our plan right now to go out that far with the existing bid? Smith: With the sewer? Bird: Yes. Smith: No, sir, it's not. The sewer -- the sewer bid that we have -- the sewer contract that we have right now would extend the sewer under Eagle Road near where the South Slough crosses Eagle and it would end at that point under this present contract. Bird: That has to be completed next year, next spring? Smith: It should be completed by May of this year, end of May. Bird: Thank you, Gary. Corrie: Thank you, Gary any further questions? Okay the representative of Packard Estates, LLC. Is the testimony you are about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Bowcutt: It is. Corrie: Name and address, please, for the record. Bowcutt: Becky Bowcutt, 1100 East Valli-Hi, Eagle. I'm representing the applicant in this matter. Just for the record, I did not prepare this application, nor did I submit this application. The applicant came to me after it was submitted and asked me if I would take a look at this parcel and listen to their argument on why they wanted to be out of the Meridian area of impact and be included in Boise's area of impact. Also they asked me to meet with Boise City Engineer John Johnson and go over what facilities Boise has in this general vicinity. I did that and it was with some reservation in the beginning that I took this, because, typically, I'm annexing into the City of Meridian, so I don't -- we don't do that many area of impact changes. I did agree to take it after further analysis Meridian City Council Meeting January 7, 2003 Page 29 of 44 and meetings that took place. This particular property that you see, it's around 70 acres, the applicant has purchased or is in the process of purchasing this parcel here and, then, the 20 acres out to Cloverdale Road and -- let me grab this little map. It's probably an easier -- just to kind of explain to you what you see here in yellow is what's within Meridian's area of impact. Here we have the quarter mile line and, then, what we have in gray is the 20-acre parcel that lies within the City of Boise. Currently at this time the city limits of Boise are on the north side of Ustick Road at Heather Meadows and they are on the eastern boundary of this property, this Dawson Meadows, which was just paved the other day, was annexed and developed under the City of Boise. There is currently a 15-inch sewer main -- Boise City sewer main that is approximately 14 feet deep in Ustick Road. It transitions to a 10-inch as it goes eastward toward the intersection of Cloverdale. United Water also has a main in Ustick Road. Boise City has a lift station located in this cul-de-sac within Autumn Leaf and, then, they have sewer stubbed to this stub street here. This ziggy line you can see here basically represents the breaking point of this property. Approximately 37 acres would sewer, if it were to sewer to the City of Boise, would sewer to Ustick, the remainder of this property would sewer back into this stub street in Autumn Leaf and Boise City's Engineer John Johnson took the Boise City aerial map, the aerial photography map. Basically, based on the existing manholes, inverts and, then, also calculating for some turns and additional manholes, estimated that this could -- Boise City could service this property by gravity by going, obviously, in these two directions. It would not require any trunk line extensions it would not require a lift station. Those facilities exist. The applicant's engineer I have not worked with before and they did a preliminary analysis of Meridian's capability of sewering this with the South Slough Trunk. I want to go on the record, because at the Planning and Zoning Commission, we had the preliminary data and since they have double-checked their figures, looked at it and they did give us some bad information. This property can gravity sewer to the South Slough Trunk, if that South Slough Trunk were extended eastward. At the Planning and Zoning Commission, based on the applicant's engineer, they had determined that the use -- the trunk would also have to be extended in Ustick Road and the South Slough in order to service the property. But not -- no one trunk could service the whole property. The Planning and Zoning Commission did take that into consideration in making their determination, but the fact is that that is -- that data was not correct. The invert that they used was shallower than what the actual invert of that new sewer will be at Eagle Road and your staff cleared that up with the applicant's engineer. You guys do have the ability and the capacity to service this, so I want to make that perfectly clear for the record. Water is not in front of this site it's over there at the Summers Funeral Home, so water would have to be extended. One thing I talked about at the Planning and Zoning Commission and I think is important is area of impact boundaries are very difficult and in 1990 when the dispute between the City of Meridian and the City of Boise was taking place, I was an employee at Ada County Development Services, so we saw both sides of the conflict that took place at that time. I asked at one time -- and I was asked by other people why did we pick the quarter mile line west of the Cloverdale for that impact boundary. I was told by knowledgeable people, well, the City of Boise and the City of Meridian didn't want both their sewer mains and water mains running in the same arterials and so we picked this quarter mile. When we draw these lines we don't take into consideration Meridian City Council Meeting January 7, 2003 Page 30 of 44 contiguous properties, that ownerships may overlap, that houses may be built on that quarter mile line and we have had cases where we have had some people say their living room was in Boise and their bedrooms were in Meridian. We have to look at each one kind of individually and make a judgment call on what's the right thing to do. Luckily, over the past 12 years, the animosity that was about in the 1990s has gone and there is a very -- a very nice spirit, I believe, of cooperation between the two cities and these two cities are growing and growing rapidly. Each one has to, obviously, look out for it's own best interest and provide area for it to grow. I'd like to show you these aerial photos, because they do kind of give you a better insight, I think, as far as trying to, you know, make a -- in trying to make an informed decision. We had this flown just a couple weeks before the Planning and Zoning Commission Hearing, so these are accurate photos. As you can see, this is Cloverdale Road, this is Ustick, and you’re looking north here. This is the Dawson Meadows, which I indicated was under construction and they just recently paved, so the city limits of Boise are here. Here is the Heather Meadows -- or Heather Glen Subdivision that's across the street with -- that's within Boise City limits here and the Boise City sewer and United Water that run across it. Then, I was talking about that stub street and, then, their lift station in this island at the cul-de-sac. This kind of gives you an idea of what's out there from that perspective. If we look at this drawing, we are looking eastward, this being Cloverdale and this being Ustick. As you can see the vastness of the City of Boise and as Boise grows and it approaches this one quarter mile line, as you can well see, with the exception of some parcels that have held out -- this is Cloverdale Nursery right here -- that development comes to an abrupt halt when it hits that quarter mile line. It's very obvious -- and, as you can see, all of this being developed here. This aerial photo gives you the perspective looking westward from the subject property. The subject property here being in red, Dawson Meadows, this is Ustick, Eagle Road, here is Fairview. As you can see, here is your core -- your city core and here are the patterns of development as far as residential development that have taken place. This is Summerfield Subdivision right here. Your city limits along this Ustick corridor, that's where they stop at this point in time on that eastern boundary right there. As you can see, when we look here in the northwesterly direction, obviously, my focus for almost three years now has been on north and west Meridian, you can see the vastness and the openness of that area. We have been concentrating on planning that and developing that particular area. I guess from my professional perspective, this particular parcel here, it makes sense that if Boise City limits do adjoin it, whereas Meridian, it's kind of leap frogging out, we are surrounded, as one other the thing, by rural estate lots that were done in the county over the years. We have them in this Perkins -- what is it, Perkins-Brown Subdivision. These are like -- I'm just having a heck of a time today with that thing. Perkins-Brown Subdivision, these are like two, two and a half acre lots here. As you can see, the only way we could get the sewer -- there is a five-acre parcel here between us, the sewer, and any possibility of annexation. Typically, with these estate developments, acre lots, two-acre lots, they normally do not want to go into the city limits. They have got their septic, they got their well, they don't want higher taxes, and they usually don't come in willingly. I think Boise found that out when they started looking at the southwest area, they had to do forced annexation. In looking at the map, we try to determine, since we are bounded by rural estate lots on our southern boundary and on our western boundary, how long will it take and what is Meridian City Council Meeting January 7, 2003 Page 31 of 44 the chance that we will be able to be annexed into the city, therefore, taking advantage of city services within the near future. Mr. Groves is trying to develop this property. If he cannot be within one jurisdiction, then, it is always difficult from a planning perspective to have one development, but be dealing with two different jurisdictions. This is residential. In your Comprehensive Plan it's designated medium density. Boise out in their Comprehensive Plan that adjoins us is low density residential. Unlike the Caven property that was on -- at the corner where we got a lot of comments from the Planning and Zoning Commission, because it was at the intersection of Eagle and Ustick, that that would be high dollar generator, highway commercial, the type of development that the City of Meridian needs and wants in the future. This, on the other hand, is going to be low density single-family detached residential. I don't think that those two can be compared. They are like apples and oranges. I know what I'm asking is difficult. The city has always been reluctant, but I think we need to take a look at what makes sense. When we have trunk lines and main lines that adjoin a particular property, they can be sewered by an adjoining city entity and the cost to extend that trunk line through this property. Plus excluding acquiring easements is estimated to be around 300,000 dollars. We have to look at, from a cost perspective, what is that doing to this property, the fact that it is within Meridian's area of impact. Do you have any questions? Corrie: Anyone have any question at this point? All right. Thank you, Becky. Bowcutt: Thank you. Corrie: We have some people here signed up on the Public Hearing sheet. Elvina Grant. Is the testimony you are about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Grant: Yes, it is. Corrie: If you can kind of raise it up as high as you can and name and address, please. Grant: My name is Elvina Grant, at 2525 North Cloverdale, Boise, Idaho. Mr. Mayor and Council Members, my parents owned some this property since the 1930s and the rest since 1955, which my brother and I and our spouses now have. Our desire is to sell our properties in one lump sale to one party. Can the city provide city sewer, city utilities, sewer and water to the entire site without demanding an annexation of other landowners? Our farms are our retirement and the time has come for us to start this process. Thank you. Corrie: Thank you. Any questions? Thank you. Jim and Irma Mittleider. Is the testimony you are about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Cole: Yes, it is. Meridian City Council Meeting January 7, 2003 Page 32 of 44 Corrie: Name and address, please. Cole: Susan Cole, 16660 Franklin Boulevard in Nampa. I am the daughter of Jim and Irma Mittleider. They own the little five-acre parcel at the southwest corner. We petitioned to the Planning and Zoning to have us excluded -- that property excluded, because my mom and dad do not wish to be part of Boise. However, we do want to state that we are for this development. They do want to see their neighbors be able to sell, be able to develop, and be able to grow in that area. Thank you. Corrie: Okay. Thank you. Virgil -- Virgil. Okay. Is the testimony you are about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Smitchger: Well, I would kind of like this to stay in the Meridian property and keep Boise on the north side. They are on the north side now and nothing on the south side and they have come out here and they took all of -- Corrie: Pull the mike -- yes, just a little bit, so we can -- Smitchger: They have taken all of our schools and they haven't had to build a school. We got Centennial, we got Pioneer, and Ustick borders this property of mine and they could walk right out of the field and over to the school so I think we should leave it in Boise. Corrie: Meridian you mean? Smitchger: Meridian I mean. Corrie: Thank you. Smitchger: Thank you. Corrie: Thank you very much. Rosemary Wood. Is the testimony you are about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Wood: Yes, it is. Corrie: Name and address, please. Wood: Mr. Mayor and City Council -- my name? Corrie: And address. Wood: Rosemary Wood 4036 East Granger in Meridian, Idaho. Corrie: Thank you. Meridian City Council Meeting January 7, 2003 Page 33 of 44 Wood: I am the wife of Archie Wood, who is the brother of Elvina Grant and the Grant- Wood family desires to sell our property to one developer, so that we can complete our retirement home -- plans. My husband is suffering from arthritis and may not be able to continue working for much longer. We wish to retain three acres of the land to live on throughout our retirement, but we have been informed that if we are not annexed into the municipality, this three-acre split will create an illegal split. We are concerned that should our property stay in the City of Meridian area of impact, we may never be able to be annexed without the city forcing landowners to the west of our property to annex also. This creates a potential hardship on our family. We wish only to retain three acres, in lieu of five, as one of our children is planning on building their home on part of our three acre parcel to accommodate their family, which includes a handicapped child with disabilities that will require our help and care. If our sale is remaining in the City of Meridian's impact area, can you guarantee us annexation, so that we do not create an illegal lot split? Thank you. Corrie: Thank you, Rosemary. Is there anyone else that would like to issue testimony at this time? Yes, sir. Is the testimony you are about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Stokes: Yes, it is. Corrie: Name and address, please. Stokes: Mark Stokes, 2870 Duane Drive, Meridian, Idaho. I'm here tonight to support the City of Meridian's staff recommendation, at least until we can answer some additional questions regarding this request. It's my understanding before I came here tonight that Mr. Smitchger's property would be basically stranded where this boundary is drawn. I would be curious how the city would handle that in the future, if that would forever be a stranded parcel that would remain in the county. That was one question I had. I also wanted to reiterate what was said before as far as the Planning and Zoning recommendation to approve this was based possibly on erroneous information that it wasn't possible, from an engineering standpoint, to provide services to this area. I was not able to attend that meeting myself in person at that time. My property is located to the west of this area and there are several other homeowners in the Perkins-Brown Subdivision that have expressed the same concern that this area -- the majority of all this area has historically been irrigated farmland. All of us are on wells and private septic systems and we are concerned that if this area does go into the City of Boise and serviced by them, is there much incentive for the City of Meridian to ever get out to us to provide those services. It was said before that we would probably be reluctant to go into the City of Meridian. When I purchased my property four years ago I was under the impression that we would become City of Meridian and I realize that as all this farm ground is taken out of production, there is a lot of people that will have to drill a deeper well in that area potentially, too. There is going to be some impacts to the people in that subdivision. I guess I'd like to see those questions kind of answered before this is acted on. Thank you. Meridian City Council Meeting January 7, 2003 Page 34 of 44 Corrie: Any questions? Okay. Anyone else like to issue testimony? Yes, sir. Is the testimony you are about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Dirkheimer: It is. Corrie: Name and address, please, for the record. Dirkheimer: Allan Dirkheimer, Ketchum, Idaho. I have got an interest in the property on the south end of the proposed development and to the west. There is a five-acre parcel and a 15 just north of that, that portion, and we have heard some emotional testimony about the development. It's always been my understanding that development proceeds in an orderly fashion and so when I purchased this property, I learned of the South Slough development -- or addition of -- the sewer project addition. I talked with staff people in engineering and learned how -- where it would terminate with the conclusion of the phase that is currently under construction and you can see the squiggly line that just proceeds west from the southern portion of my property to Eagle Road. I don't have a strong interest one way or another as far as the outcome of tonight's hearing, but in attending tonight, I understand that Planning and Zoning's determination was based upon erroneous information. This property lies within the area of impact of Meridian and that South Slough project is underway. It defies me to understand why the orderly process that was anticipated by city governments wouldn't be followed in determining the outcome of whether this would be released from Meridian impact and allowed to develop under Boise. Ultimately, your decision -- excuse me -- your decision will impact one way or another landowners such as myself, that, then, would become contiguous with Boise. Thank you. Corrie: Thank you. Anyone else like to issue testimony? Is the testimony you are about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Groves: Yes, it is. Corrie: Name and address, please. Groves: Craig Groves, 3920 East Shady Glen Court in Ada County. Mayor, Members of the Council, I wanted to kind of clarify the testimony one more time that was given at the P&Z Hearing regarding my engineer's original estimates on the sewer. My original - - my engineer did an initial study for me early on. He took the data based on the City of Meridian's original master plan, okay. When he was verifying all this information with the City of Meridian, he was informed that the new depth in the new design crossing Eagle Road at the South Slough, it was going to be six feet deeper than what the original master plan showed, okay. In his defense, he just messed up, okay. Of course, you know, when that sewer line was actually built and stubbed across Eagle Road -- and we will have to verify that it's at that right location, but that's where the conflict is and I certainly hope that that doesn't create many issues for us. I think it's pretty clear that the property in question, you know, can be serviced by the City of Boise without the Meridian City Council Meeting January 7, 2003 Page 35 of 44 extension of any additional main water lines, without the additional extension of main sewer lines. If the property is to be developed into the City of Meridian, there are annexation issues, there are sewer trunk line issues, there are, -- there is a water issue. We are not convinced that the water line in Ustick Road will have -- or in -- yes, Ustick Road will service the entire parcel without looping it back somehow. I would certainly encourage you to consider our request. Thank you. Corrie: Anyone else? Okay. Developer, have any questions that have arisen in the testimony that you want to address? Bowcutt: One thing that was brought up was what the Planning and Zoning Commission -- their determination. I don't think their decision was made solely on the fact that the sewer -- we thought the sewer had to come from two directions. They were looking at all the factors and the factors do include that we do have estate lots around us. The sewer does not go on passed this property. The issue was brought up now -- so we would not be cutting it off, cutting the properties off from any sewer. The Smitchger parcel at the corner, there is another like two and a half acre parcel that adjoins them. The question arose by one of the residents along Duane what about those properties? If this parcel were given to Boise and Boise's impact line extended out, it would have to square up. You, obviously, you could not have an enclave that's not in anyone's impact area. At some point in time they would -- you know, they would be serviced -- obviously, they have got Boise City sewer and United Water right in front of their house, so they have a potential to abandon their septics, wells and hook on. The Duane Drive residents, I don't know how your Sewer Plan shows that they sewer. I assume they may go out to Ustick, if the trunk line were extended down Ustick. I don't know. That would be for your staff to determine. One of the problems we have -- and I have dealt with it in the southwest when I have done large developments in the Boise southwest area, when we have large estate lots, it's very expensive to go in and bring sewer and water into these -- those developments. Those assessments for extension of the sewer lines and water lines are typically paid by the residents and that was one of the controversies of the southwest, was it was very, very extensive. Some of those people I think were paying 5,000-dollar assessments for sewer to be brought down their existing streets to service their acre lot. Those -- you know, that is a difficult question. I don't have all the answers and I think we have to, you know, focus on, you know, what makes sense and what's logical. I just ask that you take into consideration all the factors and make a determination. Thank you. Corrie: Thank you. Kenny, is that in our Fire District? Bowers: Mayor Corrie and City Council, that is in our Rural Fire Protection District. Corrie: Counsel, questions? Any questions on this? Anybody else want to have any -- okay. I will recommend that the Council close the Public Hearing, then, if there aren't any other questions. Nary: I'd move to close the Public Hearing. Meridian City Council Meeting January 7, 2003 Page 36 of 44 McCandless: Second. Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded to close the Public Hearing on this request any further discussion? All those in favor say aye. Opposed no? Motion is carried. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Corrie: Comments? Discussions? Nary: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: And I don't really have an opinion on this yet. I wish to throw this out for the purpose of discussion. There are a couple of things that are concerning to me. One is that little piece on the northeast corner. Although they are not a part of this and have asked not to be a part of this request, essentially, if we granted it, they are going to be. It is our responsibility as a city with the area of impact to provide urban services within a time period and, at least from what our staff is telling us, that's what we can do. We are not required to provide an annexation path, we are required to provide service, and we can. I'm very torn in this one, because of the concerns about that northeast corner. I do agree also with Miss Bowcutt and Mr. Groves, there is a lot of this that makes sense it seems reasonable. A line was drawn in the sand 12 years ago for a variety of reasons and some of those reasons have changed. It's not an unreasonable request to, essentially, set our city limits back to the west of this property from where it is currently. That's not an unreasonable request on their part, but I am very concerned that the arguments that are made by this application are the same arguments that every other property along that boundary line can make. It's the same argument that can be made by every other property along the boundary line all the way north and south between Boise and Meridian and that's concerning to me. There are some reasons that people live on one side or the other and there are some obligations that the cities take in creating those sides. I guess my concern is that there is information -- and it may not have been the crucial factor. I have been looking at the minutes as we have been talking and it was a factor up for the Planning and Zoning Commission, I would agree, Miss Bowcutt, it wasn't the only factor, but it was a factor for them about the splitting of the sewer lines and it was something that at least was considered in their decision. I'm concerned that that decision may need to be revisited. I'm concerned about that northeast corner and basically abandoning that property as well, even though that's not what's being asked of us today and I'm concerned that simply redrawing these lines now, when our staff is telling us we can meet the legal requirements of our area of impact. That's what we are supposed to do so -- and there was some discussion. I didn't hear any of that tonight, about serviceability from where the soccer fields are. I guess they are at the bottom -- the bottom southwest there that there is the potential for serviceability through that area as well. I guess I'm real concerned, but I can see both Meridian City Council Meeting January 7, 2003 Page 37 of 44 sides here. Like I said, I don't really have an opinion at this point, but I just thought I'd throw that out for discussion. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I guess I would agree with what Councilman Nary has said. You know, they both -- there are good arguments on both sides of it, but where does the eastern -- or the western progression of Boise stop, because of these situations? You know, there is a logical growth that Meridian wants to do from the inside out and is it just because Boise is already there that we should continue to lose our area of impact. I guess the corner on the -- the northeast corner of Ustick and Eagle that was told to the property owner long ago that we would turn that over. This is not the same issue. This can be serviced and it appears from what one of the property owners that owns those two parcels, the five-acre and, then, the parcel below that, can provide an annexation route to the piece of property on its southern west corner. There would be an annexation route to that without having to go through that -- the one or two acre lots. I would agree with Councilman Nary's assessment that, you know, we will be able to meet our obligation by annexing -- or by providing services. I guess Mr. Groves did raise a question on the water and I don't know if that's really been answered, if we can provide the water to that area or not. Gary, can you answer that? Smith: Mayor and Council, Councilwoman de Weerd, the extension of water to this property would be in Ustick Road from where it is at Summers Funeral Home right now. That's a 12-inch diameter line. I testified early that I don't know whether it could provide enough service for fire flow protection to the property. That would have to be answered by running the demand for this size parcel through our computerized program of a water model, which we can certainly do that, but I just don't have an answer for you this evening. De Weerd: Okay so we know we can sewer it. Smith: Yes, ma'am. De Weerd: We are just not sure yet if we can water it. Smith: That's correct and we would have to have information on what is planned to be done there in terms density, the domestic demand, along with the fire flow demand. Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: But there is no guarantee that United Water, with the existing lines they have got, can service this for fire flow either. I mean there are up to the north, they are going to Meridian City Council Meeting January 7, 2003 Page 38 of 44 the north, they are coming across, but we don't know how big their line is or anything. They might have to put another well in, too. Smith: Mayor and Council, Councilman Bird, I understand that they have a main line in Ustick Road. I don't know the diameter of that line and I don't know what their ability is as far as supply. I'm assuming, and only assuming, that the rural developments adjacent to the property to the east, for example, off of Cloverdale Road, are lots that have individual water supply wells and I can't say for certain, but in order for them to loop a line out to Cloverdale to their main, they would have to come in on one of those access roads that is shown on that map on the screen, but, again, I can't say what their capacity is like there. Corrie: Okay any other -- no. It's closed. Sorry. Unless they want to open it back up. Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I would only say one thing to the Council and I'm kind of like Mr. Nary, I don't know which way to go, other than the fact that I hate to see the Smitchger’s out there out in the wild blue wonder, they are either going to be Boise or not. If we allow this to go to Boise, they don't have any choice. We have got to make sure if we are going to do this that we are going to be ready to service -- to provide the services without annexation out here, because there is no way you're going to annex for a while. I know that's a touchy situation with some of the people. It doesn’t bother me at all, but I know it does some of the people. I figure with sewer and water there, they are paying their way anyway so -- but you want to think about that. To deny it, keep them there, you got to run the services out there and you're going to have to service it and they are not going to be able to be annexed for years. Nary: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: I guess this -- I don't know if this matters to the rest of the Council, but I'm looking at the minutes and Mr. Centers on the Planning and Zoning Commission makes a pretty lengthy statement here in the minutes -- it's on Page 26 of the minutes regarding this particular issue on the serviceability. It's clear to me in reading his statement here that, at least to him, he was -- the reason he was supportive of the recommendation to release this property was because it appeared that it was not serviceable by sewer by Meridian. From what we have heard tonight, that's not the case. That -- and, again, that's just one of the members of that Commission, but he's pretty emphatic here and that seems -- at least in reading this, that seemed to sway a lot of the other Commissioners as well, as to why it should be released, because it didn't appear to be clearly serviceable by Meridian at the time. I guess -- and if I don't get a second, that's fine. I think we will be -- I think the right thing we need to do is we need to remand this Meridian City Council Meeting January 7, 2003 Page 39 of 44 back to the Planning and Zoning Commission and have them make a recommendation based on all the facts. That was what -- at least at the point where they are making a motion here in the minutes, that seemed to be a significant point to them. I recognize that ultimately is our decision, but I'm always concerned when there is that big a difference between what the staff recommends and what the Commission recommends. That the information on which that was based was simply just incomplete at the time and now that we have the complete information, I guess that would be my preference, if the Council wants to do that, or if we don't, that's fine. Bird: Was that a motion? Nary: I would move to remand this back to the Planning and Zoning Commission for further review of this recommendation and with the further information of serviceability of this property by Meridian sewer. Bird: I will second that. Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded. Further discussion? Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I don't know where their engineer got that, because I think it was five years ago that JUB did a complete area of sewer for us in our complete impact area. As I recall, other than out in the southwest, there was no lift stations at all, everything -- this sewered down -- this was a natural flow sewer system, if I remember right. It was that yellow book that they gave us, JUB so -- but reading through the minutes I agree with Councilman Nary, that I think that was probably one of the biggest items that made the Planning and Zoning go the way they did. I will be flat truthful if it was that way here it would make my mind up, too. I would have no problem doing it if we couldn't sewer it. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: If we remand this back to Planning and Zoning, we definitely need to have the answers to the water. Nary: I was going to amend my motion to include that. Bird: The water, too. You bet. Nary: The water issue, also to get some further classification on whether it's serviceable and what the current situation -- what the current lines are, as Mr. Smith had recommended. Meridian City Council Meeting January 7, 2003 Page 40 of 44 De Weerd: Mr. Mayor, I guess I would have one more comment and I would like our Fire Department and our Police Department to kind of take a critical look at this as well, with the buffer, the rural subdivision, that, you know, will not annex in, unless, you know, at some point they need the city services. That is kind of a natural buffer and it would be helpful to have your assessment on servicing should this go into a subdivision -- a residential subdivision, how that would impact their departments as well. Nary: And I would include that as part of the motion. Bird: That's no problem at all. Corrie: Any further discussion? We have a motion before us with a couple of additions that we have added, that, of course, the second has agreed to. Any further discussion? The motion is to remand this back to the Planning and Zoning, so they can understand that there is a possibility of sewer and water for this, so if you're ready, we will call the question, then, Mr. Berg, if you will. Roll Call: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; De Weerd, aye; Bird, aye. Corrie: Okay. All ayes. This is going to be deferred back to Planning and Zoning for a continued hearing with them, with the addition of the water and sewer -- excuse me. I'm sorry if you can't hear me -- notification on it. Okay. That doesn't close the door to everybody, but it gives us some ideas of what's going on, then. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Nary: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Nary. Nary: Mr. Berg, just to make sure that the folks know that we would re-notice this as a Public Hearing, so they would get notice again of when that's going to be heard by the Planning and Zoning Commission. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I guess it can also be noted that you can call the City Clerk's office and find out when that would be scheduled. Item 14. City Council Election of Officers: Corrie: It's also noticed in the papers as well, so make sure that -- thank you. All right. With that we have next on the agenda is the City Council election of officers, so are you ready to do that, Mr. Nary? Meridian City Council Meeting January 7, 2003 Page 41 of 44 Nary: Mr. Mayor, maybe I could do this in one fell swoop. I think we have had great leadership this last year, both from Council Member de Weerd and Council Member McCandless. I think it's the best year I have ever had on the Council, so I think -- but I think it's been excellent and I don't have any particular reason to want to change. What I was going to move, if I would get a second, is to re -- I guess, select Council Member de Weerd as Council president for the next year and Council Member McCandless as the vice-president for next year. Bird: I will second that. Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion say aye. All ayes. I don't get a vote, since that is not a tie, but -- all right. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Corrie: Any -- I guess that's the last item on the agenda. Does anybody have anything other than -- Bird: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I do have something and it come so quick I need to ask Brad a question here when he gets done on a -- it's regarding a development that's going in out at Crossroads, the last 11 acres at Crossroads. Are you familiar with it FC Corporation a medical facility or something? They need some temporary -- Hawkins-Clark: Oh, yes. I'm sorry. At Pine and Eagle? Bird: Yes. And there is something that -- that you told them that we -- that we as a Council -- because the ordinance isn't clear for temporaries or something, that we, as a Council, could do it. Their problem is they don't mind going through the CUP, but they don't have the time, as I understand. You probably know more about it than I do, Brad, from the way they talked. I tried to get a hold of you today, but I didn't get it done, so -- Hawkins-Clark: I have had two conversations over the phone with them. Bird: I told them that I'd talk with you here and see what the other Council thought. If the staff, as I understand, felt comfortable without having to go -- if the Council agreed to, without having to go through a CUP for temporaries, am I -- is he reading the staff right is what I'm asking. Hawkins-Clark: Well, it doesn't sound like it, because it's pretty clear in the ordinance to me that temporary trailers, except when they are used for construction -- Bird: Yes. Meridian City Council Meeting January 7, 2003 Page 42 of 44 Hawkins-Clark: -- are prohibited. Bird: Okay. Hawkins-Clark: And so -- Bird: he was saying something about the staff but anyway -- it's something that maybe we could put on the Pre-Council for next week and discuss this, instead of doing it tonight. Corrie: Yes. I don't want to do it tonight. Bird: No, I don't want to -- Corrie: Until we have got some idea that -- we can do it at Pre-Council next week, if it's not a problem, but it wasn't on tonight and I don't want to get into any problems with it so we can put it on -- Bird: And if, maybe, Brad, you could write up your opinion. Hawkins-Clark: Okay. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: If Council wouldn't mind, since it is only 9:15, if we could call an Executive Session due to 94-67-2345, Item F, I did have -- give a heads up. We got a memo from our City Attorney. If -- it looks like our Pre-Council is getting full for next week as well. Nary: Second. Bird: You can always call an Executive Session don't let anybody ever tell you different. Corrie: What is it in reference to? De Weerd: If there is pending litigation. Corrie: Okay. We have got a motion made and second roll call vote, Mr. Berg. Roll Call: McCandless, aye; Nary, aye; De Weerd, aye; Bird, aye. Corrie: All ayes. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Meridian City Council Meeting January 7, 2003 Page 43 of 44 (Enter Executive Session at 9:18 P.M.) (Come out at 9:32 P.M.) Corrie: I will entertain a motion to come out of the Executive Session. McCandless: So moved. Bird: Second. Corrie: All those in favor say aye. All ayes motion carried. Let the record show that no decisions were made at the Executive Session. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Corrie: I will entertain a motion to – oh, yes comment. Berg: Excuse me, I’m sorry to bring this up but after I don’t know a month and a half of trying to arrange a meeting dealing with the golf course issue, we’ve come up with a date that seems to have people in town and somewhat available for the meeting. That’s th the 27 of January it’s a Monday evening. It’s a little bit in advance, so if you can make things arrange but if that’s okay with everybody we’ll get that rolling. Corrie: We need to check with the attorney before we make a definite date so that he can check with her as well. Who have you been talking to? Berg: Well I’ve been talking to everybody but their side JoAnn Butler’s coming back from Florida that day but she’ll be here that night. The other ones were dealing with people going to some conferences and Ada County Commission Public Hearings and it was just a real mess. th Corrie: Well you can set it if you want it we can set it (inaudible) for the 27 if we get everybody together. I don’t know whether we can or not. Berg: It’s almost three weeks. De Weerd: It works for me. Corrie: If they get their stuff together and if our attorney and theirs agree that it’s a good time to meet. Berg: Okay I was trying to get some kind of a, not necessarily an agenda but what the purpose that they want to accomplish from the meeting and get that information right away so we can look at what we want to follow through on. I’m not sure if there are decisions, we’re going to do other than just information gathering and lay issues on the Meridian City Council Meeting January 7, 2003 Page 44 of 44 table. I don’t know what other things there might be but I’ll talk to Mr. Nichols and Ms. Butler on those. th Corrie: I don’t see it would be a problem most everybody could be there the 27 they can look at it. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Yes, Mrs. de Weerd. th De Weerd: Are the Council and the Mayor all available to judge on the 18. Corrie: Yes. Okay thank you. Corrie: I’ll supply the – De Weerd: Beer? Corrie: Tums, oh beers (inaudible). I was right at Tums because (inaudible). Okay do we have a motion to adjourn the meeting? De Weerd: So moved. Nary: Second. Corrie: Okay all in favor say aye. 9:35. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:35 P.M. (TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) APPROVED: / / ROBERT D. CORRIE, MAYOR DATE ATTESTED: WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., CITY CLERK