HomeMy WebLinkAbout2003 09-02 Pre
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting September 2, 2003
The Pre-Council Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:30
P.M. on Tuesday, September 2, 2003, by Mayor Robert Corrie.
Members Present: Mayor Robert Corrie, Tammy de Weerd, Cherie McCandless,
Bill Nary, and Keith Bird.
Others Present: Bill Nichols, Gary Smith, Kenny Bowers, Anna Powell, Doug
Strong, Brad Hawkins-Clark, Reta Cunningham, Diane Stewart, Stacy
Kilchenmann and Will Berg.
Item 1. Roll-call Attendance:
X Tammy de Weerd X Bill Nary
X Cherie McCandless X Keith Bird
X Mayor Robert Corrie
Corrie: I will open the Pre- Council Meeting on Tuesday September 2, 2003 at
6:30 P.M. in the City Council Chambers. I would ask the City Clerk to do roll call
attendance please.
Item 2. Adoption of the Agenda:
Corrie: The second item is adoption of the agenda. We have two items on the
agenda.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I move we adopt the agenda as printed.
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and second to adopt the agenda as
printed. Any further discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor say aye.
Opposed no? All ayes, motion carried.
Item 3. Discussion of Water Service and Dry Line Sewer for
Westborough Subdivision:
Corrie: Therefore Item Number 3 will be the discussion of water service and dry
line sewer for Westborough Subdivision. Brad.
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
September 2, 2003
Page 2 of 15
Watson: Thank you Mr. Mayor and Council Members. Where do we begin on
this one? We met with you in June to talk about provision of water service to a
county subdivision called Westborough. It is on the southwest corner of Chinden
and Locust Grove Road. There was quite a bit of discussion there that night
amongst staff and Mr. Jewett, who is also here tonight. The instruction that I
believe Council gave us at that meeting was that we would go back and figure
out who was paying for what and who was constructing what. Several months
went by and several different plans came through and we have reviewed Mr.
Jewett’s plans as well as the high school academy that is going in up there. We
haven’t approved anything. We haven’t approved Westborough Sub yet pending
your approval of providing water service to those five residential lots and one
th
commercial lot. Mr. Jewett wrote a letter dated August 15 addressed to the City
Clerk, I believe that’s in your packets. In a nutshell it looks like Gold Creek
Developers agrees to construct water line from the west side of the academy
high school to and through their subdivision. Also contemplated in that letter is a
purchase of a well lot for $30,000 that the city would build a well on. The third
issue is whether to require dry line sewer for the five residential lots and one
commercial lot. I feel like I’m leaving some information out so please feel free to
ask me any questions. Mr. Jewett is here, he can either verify or deny what I’ve
th
said or if there are any changes from that letter he wrote from August 15.
Corrie: Okay.
Bird: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Brad how big is this lot for $30,000. Is it an acre or what?
Watson: Council member Bird, Mayor and Council Members. I don’t believe it’s
a full acre I think its closer to a half acre.
Bird: Do you have to have a well lot in there?
Watson: Our water master plan designates a well in that general vicinity.
Bird: But not right in this Jericho Sub? That seems like a lot of money to me for
an undeveloped lot.
Watson: Actually the Comprehensive Plan, which does incorporate our future
wells, does show it within these 40 acres. We don’t have to have them right
where those dots are. They are sort of like the parks, they float a little bit but in
that area of town we would need one. There’s one, I don’t know if it’s a pertinent
issue or not. You had previously approved providing water and sewer service to
the Valley Life Community Church and the academy high school on north Locust
Grove. We proceeded with that project with the design of that project and bided I
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
September 2, 2003
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think in April. Bitterroot Construction I think was awarded the contract and they
are unable to get the road closure permits that they thought they needed at that
time. There was quite a scenario of events pertaining to construction and road
closures in the north Meridian area over the summer that it didn’t quite turn out
the way we all originally thought in April and May. Regardless they have
requested at this point to be let out of their contract because of this ongoing issue
of not being able to get into the road to construct the water and sewer they took
on other work and they’ve indicated that they can’t begin the project until mid
October I believe, mid to late October. They’ve also asked to be let out of their
contract by the way.
Corrie: Okay any questions of Brad. Thank you.
Jewett: I’m Jim Jewett. 408 South Eagle Road in Eagle. What Brad has stated
is true. As far as the well lot, you know Brad asked me to just mention it in the
letter in case the Council was interested in it. If you are not interested in it you
are not in anyway obligated to buy it. We were required to plat it because it’s on
the Comprehensive Plan. We did there it is, if you need it five years from now
call us and we will go from there but I’m just putting it on that letter so that you
would have some information as far as what we would sell it for. We are trying to
get this all wrapped up to finish the Westborough plat so we can conclude our
trade with the school district so they can begin construction of the school, they
are ready to go. We need to have a yea or a nay on this water extension we
would reap to pay for the extension. We just need to get it done so we can
record the plat. The plats are ready to go we just need a letter from Public Works
here approving the plat and approving whether or not we go (inaudible) the water
and the dry line sewer. I’ll stand for any questions.
Corrie: Council.
Bird: I have none.
Corrie: Okay. It doesn’t sound like there is much conversation going on here. I
believe that the city wanted to put in water and sewer at the same time but the
ACHD said no to the closure correct.
Watson: Mr. Mayor that’s correct. They could have from what I understand and
have been told they could have gotten a permit to construct not with road closure
but with flagger’s that wasn’t contemplated in the original contract.
Consequently, there would have been quite a bit of an increase in price. We just
kept hoping that we would get that road closure. There were some delays on
some other projects and Linder Road that were unanticipated had to do with the
school project and a couple subdivisions over there. We kept thinking we were
going to get to it any day or any week and it just never panned out that way. The
only other thing that I might mention that we do on all of these county subdivision
or county properties that do get water and sewer service is if that is approved we
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September 2, 2003
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have been requiring a consent to annexation agreement. Once they are
contiguous, they would be annexed.
Corrie: Is that the situation here? They do or they don’t or what.
Watson: It hasn’t really been discussed a whole lot to tell you the truth. Every
county parcel or project that comes through over the last year or two we have
been requiring this consent to annex just like with Vienna Woods, Edinburgh, a
handful of small parcels.
Nary: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Brad in looking at the minutes from the last meeting I guess the discussion
we sort of resolved most of the issue from the last discussion and I guess to
follow up on Council member Bird’s question. I mean on this well lot thing I mean
is it necessary to purchase this well lot. $30,000 seems like a lot for a half an
acre. I can’t tell from what you have said or what we have is whether or not it’s
really necessary at this time to have that well lot there or whether or not we think
that’s a good deal but other then that it seems like everything else we talked
about the last time has been resolved. Who is going to pay for the extension and
all that stuff? I sense you were looking for some direction on that piece but
maybe I just misread that.
Watson: Council member Nary, Mayor and Council members. We need a well in
that vicinity. Whether we can get one for no cost donated as we do with almost
every other well remains to be seen. There are some other parcels in that area
that is undeveloped. We don’t need it today, probably don’t need it in 12 months
but within the next two to three years maybe four we will need a well up there.
When I spoke with Mr. Jewett several weeks ago when we were discussing this
and the price, up until that day we had never paid for a well lot they have always
been donated of course that night we did pay for a well lot.
Nary: Grudgingly, very grudgingly.
Corrie: Any more words of wisdom for Mr. Jewett.
Bird: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Brad I’m like Councilman Nary. All of our questions got answered except
then we don’t need this lot. $ 30,000 for a lot if there’s area out there right now.
We would be much smarter to go buy from one of the farmers an acre ourselves
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September 2, 2003
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and there are a lot out there I would think for a lot less price and get an acre of
ground. All of our questions have been answered I feel that we had asked for.
Corrie: Any –
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I guess I have a question for Mr. Jewett. Is this a pre development
cost or this must be – how did you arrive at the $30,000. I can’t imagine you
spent $60,000 an acre up there when there is no water or sewer.
Jewett: No we didn’t spend $60,000 an acre. How I came up with it I just
basically just chose a number. I mean there wasn’t any mathematics to it, there
wasn’t any rhyme or reason I just thought that would be appropriate. I take that
back there was I did sell well lot (inaudible) water and that’s what I sold it to them
for was $30,000 and that was a couple years ago. You know I understand for the
most part the city’s been donated lots through a subdivision and when you do a
subdivision the developers getting something for what he is giving. In this case
we came through with the original subdivision with 70 something lots we were
offering a well lot and we didn’t get that and we ended up with this and this is
kind of what we’ve put on as a value on that and we think its fair and it has
everything the city needs right there. It has three-phase power, its location is
right on Locust Grove, and it has an area to discharge for its overflows. It has
everything it needs for a well lot. You don’t have to wait for another subdivision
to come through with enough volume where they are going to offer a well lot.
There is some open parcels there but they are all at this current time deed
restricted anywhere close to this, this is in my opinion one of the only locations
you are going to find has everything you need to be able to develop that. I guess
I don’t know how you would carve off an acre off of some farmers property
without subdividing like we did and that’s how we were able to create it is through
the subdivision process. There is no mathematics that’s kind of the number I put
on it based on other information I had. The city wants it and they want to offer
less I can take it to my partners and see what they want to do but I guess you
guys need to determine if you want it or not because I only platted it there
because I was required to as part of my conditions of approval. I mean it can go
for any other type of utility. It can go for substations, telephone exchanges
anything else that has to do with public utility. At some point of none of those
uses there I can re-plat it to something else and I’m not trying to force it on the
city it really doesn’t matter to me.
De Weerd: But in order to develop part of your parcel with the school they need
water and sewer right?
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September 2, 2003
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Jewett: Yeah but they’ve already been granted water and sewer by this Council
so they don’t need the well. The well is for the future its not for today. I don’t
think it was ever anticipated being needed now. I wish I could donate it, I wish I
had enough coming out of that parcel of land that I could donate it but it’s just not
in the cards.
De Weerd: But you just kind of pulled a figure out of the air?
Jewett: Basically yes. Other then what I did put in my letter is if appraisal comes
in at less we would abide by an appraisal. You know if –
De Weerd: I thought I saw an appraisal less a donation and so –
Jewett: Right because we feel like it would probably appraise for almost twice
that value. Again, that would be subject to a third parties opinion not mine. If an
appraiser came in and said it was worth $10,000 then that’s what its worth. The
land out there, I don’t think anything that I’ve seen lately has sold for much less
then about $42,000 an acre. Even if you could buy an acre from somebody I
don’t think you can get it – because that’s the going price out there in north
Meridian right now it’s $42,000 an acre and climbing.
De Weerd: Half of that is $21,000.
Jewett: Yeah but that would be for a raw piece of ground – I mean this has
everything you need right there. It has an area where you can discharge for
blowing off water and it also has your three-phase power. You have no other off
site costs. Then the water line is going to be right there so to tie into your
existing system is minimal costs. I think that needs to be weighed at this
particular site when you go to buy a site. How much is – I think your staff could
tell you that Idaho Power to extend three phases anywhere is a lot of money.
You got it right here on this site. You’ve got access to your water main, you’ve
got access to power required power and you got access to a discharge where it
would blow off your system. The same side I sold United Water had the same
features on it. It had three-phase power to it, it had access on to public road, and
access to the water main and it had a discharge ditch. I think its very
comparable to what I have sold in the past and it’s been four years ago I sold that
to United Water.
De Weerd: Well I’d like to think there is a difference between United Water and
us. We are not a for profit and we don’t pass those costs on to our clients or our
users.
Jewett: And that is true they are for profit and the city isn’t.
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September 2, 2003
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Corrie: Anything else? Any further discussion or anything you want to
(inaudible) on this one? Thank you. Next is update on the discussion on
application fees for Silverstone project.
Nary: I guess Brad wants to know what to do.
Watson: I’m sorry I just need to understand. The Council has to since it’s in the
county the Council either needs to approve or deny water service to this
subdivision so I can write my service ability or will serve letter to Ada County.
There’s the water issue and there’s dry line sewer as well. This is at the very
very upper reach of this service area so Mr. Jewett has agreed to at least stub in
services to each house so that eventually if the sewer does come he can connect
to it rather then building the full dry line main in Jericho Road. That’s what Ada
County was looking for from me in order to process the Westborough plat for Mr.
Jewett. Do we provide water service to him, one? Two, do we require dry line
sewer?
Corrie: Okay what is the Council’s desire here.
Nary: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: It seems to me like it’s pretty clear. I guess the only issue that we are kind
of wrestling with is this well lot. It doesn’t sound like we have to have it today. I
guess it sounds like something that we could continue to explore. Mr. Jewett it
doesn’t sound like we are necessarily foreclosed that we opt not to do that today
but if that discussion wants to be had or has you search the market there in that
area and find that this is still the most likely spot for that then I guess we can deal
with that at the juncture. Really, I don’t think there is any other real issue on the
table. I think extending the water makes sense. I think you’ve covered all the
basis we asked. I think the water and the dry line sewer makes sense. That’s
what we kind of thought where we would be and I think we got that resolved and
we will deal with the well lot later if you need it or how that wants to get taken
care of in the future. Is that okay if we don’t mess with the well lot issue today?
It seems like a lot of money but again I don’t know the market. Maybe Mr.
Jewett’s right and that’s probably fair I have no idea.
Watson: Councilman Nary I think that’s fair, that’s fine. We can continue to
explore that.
Nary: It doesn’t sound like the house is going to be built on this property so it’ll
still be there for a while. We can probably address that further in the future.
Watson: Correct.
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September 2, 2003
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Nary: Mr. Jewett will want something I’m sure. Do you need a motion for us to
agree to extend the sewer pursuant to all of our other prior conditions about
consent to annex and (inaudible).
Watson: To provide water service to Westborough Subdivision and whether or
not to provide the dry line sewer. He is proposing not to provide the dry line
sewer.
Nary: I think we need to do both.
Corrie: I think do too.
Nary: I think we have to have to have both.
Jewett: To put the water line in we have to take out half of Jericho to put the
water line to keep the sewer in the proper corridor we’d have to tear out the other
half of the road which is just not a burden of digging out another trench we are
tearing out another half of road and we don’t know the grades. Like I say its on
the far end of that so what I propose was stubbing the sewer service across the
area where we are digging the road up so the houses have service to that
corridor but leaving it at that we have no idea what to set the grades at and to
have us dig up a whole side of a road I think is a great burden. If it was in the
same corridor or the same side of the road where we were already digging up
that’s one thing, but to ask us to dig up another half of a road to put in a sewer
that may be at the right grade or may not be at the right grade. We have already
designed and we’ve provided them a design where the sewer services come
across the water line and get into that corridor as high as possible he can set it.
Hopefully if it’s as high as possible hopefully the sewer would be lower then that.
Other then that I don’t know. I just think its going to change our project
considerably we would have to go back and try to redesign and tear up the rest
of Jericho and its just an added burden of costs that I don’t think is wanted at this
time. There’s all the houses on the other end of the street that would have to
have sewer services dig the road up now to put – I thought we had agreed with
Brad that we would just put the services in and exclude the dry line sewer itself.
Nary: I guess that’s not maybe what I heard Mr. Watson say. Maybe did I –
Watson: Mr. Mayor and Council members. I don’t think I really said one way or
the other to clearly. Mr. Jewett has a valid point. This is at the very, very top end
of a sewer lateral that goes up and touches Chinden. I don’t know where to set it
for sure other then it would be some light guess work and just setting it as
shallow as we possibly can and trying to run it down hill. If those houses and that
one commercial business ever do need sewer they’ll probably have to form a LID
but its not going through that project to anywhere else. The future burden of
providing that sewer will be on his lots.
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September 2, 2003
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Bird: Mr. Mayor. Where is the sewer coming from for the school?
Watson: Council member Bird. It comes up Locust Grove Road and it just
barely has enough depth to bring it back to the east. Everything from about an
eighth of a mile west of Locust Grove falls off to the west towards the North
Slough trunk that will be building next year.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd.
De Weerd: So what we are doing is placing the burden on future homeowners
and they don’t know what that future burden will be?
Watson: Council Member de Weerd. That’s right. There can certainly be a note
on the plat that says something about future sanitary sewer service from the City
of Meridian but as plat notes go that’s not a huge warning they obviously won’t
know the costs involved.
De Weerd: I mean have we done this before? I know any discussion we’ve had
about subdivisions have always included the dry line.
Watson: Perhaps Gary could talk to that. I don’t remember any dry line sewer
being installed since I’ve been here but.
Corrie: Gary do you have any recollection of that?
Smith: Mr. Mayor and Council. The times that dry line sewer has come up the
proposed developments have been way outside of our existing developed sewer
area. We just waived that requirement because we just didn’t know any
elevations to set those sewer lines at for a dry line. That’s the biggest problem.
You certainly don’t want to end up with a situation where you have a lift station
out there to serve dry line that’s been installed too deep. In this case its on the
upper end of the reach of the sewer lateral and the only thing you can say from
that is that you need to put it in as high as possible as far as elevation goes. Just
minimal cover but still you don’t know until you start – until you have an
alignment to work with and the only time you have an alignment to work with is
when you’ve got a trunk line that’s designed and a route to go from the trunk line
to the development. In answer to your question, I don’t recall requiring any dry
lines to be installed just because of the elevation concerns not knowing how
deep to build the sewer.
De Weerd: I guess these were reasons of our recommendations for denial and
this development was one of those, correct in the original state?
Smith: Yes.
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September 2, 2003
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De Weerd: Is because of these challenges. I’m hearing you say that you don’t
need the dry line requirement in there?
Smith: Well I guess it’s a situation where we don’t know where to put it vertically.
If it’s not in the right location vertically then it could create a problem in the future
for the property owners. In this particular case like I said it’s on the upper end of
sewer lateral. You know your guess would be that if you built it to a minimum
cover it would be high enough to drain into a future lateral that would come off
the north slough trunk. Again, it’s just a guess and it’s an expense that we are
asking the developer to incur on the basis of a best guess. It’s difficult to say well
build a dry line because we know what the elevations are, if we knew what the
elevations were I wouldn’t hesitate to say a dry line needs to be built because
that’s what our ordinance says needs to happen. I guess we’re not very
supportive of building a dry line just because we don’t know where it needs to go
vertically.
De Weerd: Okay but that’s what our ordinance says.
Smith: That’s my understanding.
De Weerd: Well what a quandary.
Bird: What’s new?
Smith: As I understand it that condition can be waived.
Jewett: If I may. The property due west of us on Jericho is several ten acres and
five-acre parcels with larger parcels behind that. You would think at some point
when the north slough comes through they will develop a path of direction which
the sewer main will come. I don’t think that these future property owners are
going to be burdened with a major extension that will have to come to service
those other large parcels and then all these other if they hook in we will just have
to pay their hook up fees or latecomers fees as it may be. I think some other
developer in the future is going to drive that, not these five one-acre lots. If the
retaining parcel that we are going to retain on Chinden Boulevard for commercial
in the future, if we drive it then we pay for it because we are the last parcels on
that line. It’s either going to be burdened by this developer or some other
developer in the future, I don’t think that these individual property owners are
going to be burdened other than a hook up fee or some latecomers fee whenever
it does get there. By putting the sewer services over to that corridor then I think
we’ve eliminated having to cut their road, dig their roads up. We’ve already
accommodated and their septics will be designed to easily switch over to those
services. I think that from our point we’ve done everything we can to
accommodate the future connection to not burden those homeowners, there is
parcels that can develop. I wish I could just build it and hook into the sewer, but
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
September 2, 2003
Page 11 of 15
that just isn’t going to work like I said it just doesn’t float that way. I know the
north slough is going to move forward -- I don’t know the speed, I don’t know
how our economy is going to go. So we could put a dry line sewer in there and it
could sit ten years and I’ve heard people tell me that pipes sitting in the ground
with no water in it is not good for that long. I know of other projects of mine in the
past that previous Council has waived the requirement of dry line sewers on
several occasions.
Corrie: Well Council you can go one of three ways. You can have him put in the
water and the dry lines. Or you can put in the water without the dry lines or you
can – I think the well situation has been taken care of. You have the capacity to
not have the dry lines put in. In between a rock and hard place.
Bird: Mr. Nary had a motion going.
Nary: I guess Mr. Mayor what I would move is that we do extend the water
service to the Westborough Subdivision pursuant to the policies and practices
we’ve had in requiring the consent to annex to those. Also to not extend the dry
line sewer at this time but that the developer will provide the stubs to – is this
Locust Grove or Jericho? Is it Locust Grove where the stubs are to or Jericho?
Okay. That he will provide the stubs to Jericho for future connection to sewer
when it’s extended in that area. I think that covers the two concerns doesn’t it?
Bird: Second.
Corrie: Okay motion has been made and seconded. Any further discussion?
Hearing none. All those in favor of the motion say aye. Opposed no? Okay Jim.
Thank you.
Item 4. Update / Discussion on Application Fees for Silverstone
Project:
Corrie: Application fees for Silverstone Project. Let’s hear that Anna.
Powell: Mr. Mayor, members of the Council. The Silverstone came to you and
asked for a waiver of their $40,000 application fee for the planned development.
You asked me at that time, to do a little more research on the fee structuring
when it had changed or more appropriate or the more germane question was
what was the appropriate fee. I had a limited amount of information available to
me so I’ve provided that to you. If I start first with the one that says Planning and
Zoning fees paid October 1, 2002 through August 18, 2003 that gives you an
idea of the combined total of the application fee. Like Paramount for the
annexation request the PD the Preliminary Plat was $23,868. That’s just the
magnitude of the fees but those are combined fees. The Accounting Department
doesn’t keep track of just PD fees paid just annexation fees paid for the project.
They take in the fee for the whole project and that’s what’s reported before you. I
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September 2, 2003
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couldn’t get a lot of detailed information on that without doing a whole lot of work
which I didn’t think you really wanted me to do that much work. Just kind of
giving you a brief shot of what I had available. The other document I provided
you is just a quick analysis of the applications we’ve taken in this year. It’s
stth
January 1 of this year through the 15. I’ve looked at the number of
applications and then just a general idea of how difficult they are like a
preliminary plat is twice as hard as a final plat which is twice as hard as a sign
application which is twice as hard as a accessory use permit. It’s just a real
general waiting factor there, nothing scientific by any means. We don’t keep
track of how many hours we spend on individual projects we just don’t have any
record keeping so this was kind of just a gut reaction. If you are just looking at
our personnel costs. What we would need to cover our personnel costs from
applications we’d need to have an average application fee of around $780 for –
so that would be like for a Final Plat. A Preliminary Plat would be closer to
$1,500. If you wanted to cover all the costs of the Planning Department, your
total average cost for a Preliminary Plat or for a Planned Development would
need to be about $2,600. Again these are just real rough estimates and that’s
why I wanted to give you a range to look at there between the personnel costs
and covering all costs. Silverstone had offered to pay $3,932.85 given the size of
the project. The 80-acre size compared to a lot of the other projects that went
through, it would seem to be reasonable. I do think there’s a flaw in the fee
structure regarding these commercial Planned Developments. The per square
foot costs just adds up far to quickly for those – the 480 base fee seems to be
reasonable if you are just looking at covering personnel costs versus total costs
for the department. The other cost really its just that looking at the site design for
the PD and considering the uses, so probably a per acre fee would be more
appropriate for rather the a per square foot fee because we do just have to
evaluate the parking and the layout and the number of parking stalls and things
like that. There’s a $15 an acre fee that’s currently in the fee structure for
annexation that would seem to be appropriate either $15 or $20 per acre. It
would seem to be a more appropriate way to go for these commercial
applications if we are trying to cover at least the personnel costs. Those costs
that I did is just for Planning and Zoning Department, it doesn’t acknowledge the
fact that the Clerk’s Department spends an awful lot of time on these applications
as well. That’s what I looked at. If you have questions I would be happy to
answer them.
Nary: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I guess I don’t really have a question. I’m comfortable with the
methodology that you used. It appears to me what Silverstone is asking is if they
just pay the straight fee as it would be calculated by our ordinance it would be
twice as much as the application fee for the Paramount Subdivision which to
them doesn’t make much sense and really doesn’t to me either. I guess what I’m
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
September 2, 2003
Page 13 of 15
comfortable with whether they are or not I guess I don’t care. I think that I’m
comfortable in you negotiating something less than that based on the
methodology that you’ve come up with and memorialize that in some fashion
because obviously until we actually change the ordinance and at least with all
these fee ones I’m sure as you know it’s a lot of time and effort and discussion
with the different affected parties and people who have some real stake in what
those fees are and how they are calculated. It’s up to whatever the rest of the
Council says but I don’t have a problem in us granting you authority to negotiated
something less then the fee as outlined in that and if that can’t be reached then
coming and telling us what that is and if that can’t be reached then like what Mr.
Watson’s did in this issue with Westborough we can certainly come and discuss
it again. I don’t know that we need to decide on a fee. I think we are deciding
more on the methodology that you feel is appropriate and I think what you have
come up with is appropriate so.
Corrie: I would agree.
Bird: I would agree.
McCandless: I would agree.
Powell: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council. I would feel most comfortable
having you decide the fee because that’s the way the ordinance is written right
now and then I would put forward a resolution to change that part of the fee
structure so that we are on a consistent basis. I think what they have offered as
far as the $3,900 would be in line with what everybody else has been paying.
The actual methodology I suggested to you would knock that lower that would be
honest with that. I would feel – I think that their offer is in line when you consider
that they’ve also paid application fees for preliminary plat and a rezone and an
annexation. Its very similar to some of the other ones that have been paid and
since that’s what they’ve offered I think it would seem appropriate just to accept
their offer at this point and then go through the hearing process to amended the
fee schedule.
Corrie: We are talking about a $3932.35?
Powell: Yes sir.
Bird: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would agree with Anna on that for this project. Let’s do it and then let’s
get down on the fee structure and take on as recommendations and stuff and
let’s get that ordinance changed so we are not having this come up before us all
the time. Councilman Nary was 100 percent right, you know we are asking them
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September 2, 2003
Page 14 of 15
for double the fees of what one big development got for their fee so I would like
to go that way. Let’s just go with their offer on the fees for this one and then let’s
get into the fee structure and get it taken care of so you are not having to do this
all the time Anna.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Mr. Mayor just a suggestion to Anna. With the park impact fee issues
we found it very helpful to involve the Finance Department in calculation of the
fees and all that how that works. I think you have to build into the fee structure
some of the other incidental costs such as the Clerk’s Office. A portion of the civil
legal services is budgeted out of the Planning and Zoning Department I believe
because that’s where a lot of the work is. All those costs need to be considered
and I think in fairness to those that pay and those that have to assess the fees
that use the Finance Department to get there will be very helpful in coming up
with a good supportable number when we go to those constituencies that have to
pay those fees.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Mr. de Weerd.
De Weerd: I think we are all in agreement on this particular application and I
appreciate what our attorney has added. I would appreciate it – I think a fee
structure was proposed to the various people they are impacted – that’s
impacted by these. With the BCA and AGC so I would like to see you work with
them as well.
Powell: Of course.
De Weerd: As you are looking at that.
Powell: Actually I’m speaking to them in October so if I could meet with Stacy
and come up with something before then I can present that at their meeting.
Okay thanks.
Corrie: Anything else?
Nary: Did you need a motion?
Corrie: Did you need a motion or did you just want to do that?
Powell: I don’t know if it needs –
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
September 2, 2003
Page 15 of 15
Nichols: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council I think a motion would be in order.
Bird: Mr. Mayor.
Corrie: Okay. Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we approve the fee structure that Anna and Silverstone worked
out for this existing application.
Nary: Second.
Corrie: Okay motion has been made and seconded to go with the fee that was
worked out with this applicant. We are talking about $3932.85. Motion made
and seconded. Any further discussion? That wraps up the Pre-Council Meeting
so I will entertain a motion to close the Pre-Council.
De Weerd: So moved.
McCandless: Second.
Corrie: Motion made and second to close the Pre-Council Meeting. All those in
favor say aye. Opposed no? Motion carried. Pre-Council closed at 7:15 P.M.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
Corrie: Hearing none all those in favor of the motion say aye. Opposed no? All
ayes.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 7:15 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
APPROVED:
/ /
ROBERT D. CORRIE, MAYOR DATE
ATTESTED:
WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., CITY CLERK