HomeMy WebLinkAbout2002 08-13
Meridian City Council Regular Meeting August 13, 2002
The regular meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:30 P.M. on
Tuesday, August 13, 2002, by City Council President Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Mayor Robert Corrie, Keith Bird, Bill Nary, Cherie McCandless, and
Tammy de Weerd.
Others Present: Bill Nichols, Mike Worley, Shari Stiles, Gary Smith, Joe Silva, Bill
Johnson, David McKinnon and Will Berg.
Item 1. Roll-call Attendance:
X Tammy de Weerd X Bill Nary
X Cherie McCandless X Keith Bird
X Mayor Robert Corrie
Issue #1 Discussion with Meridian School District
De Weerd: I will go ahead and call this meeting to order. The City Council Strategic
Planning Workshop for August 13, 2002 at 6:35 p.m. I would like to welcome all these
faces in our chambers. Not often do we see so many faces and even a couple I don’t
know so this is a good thing. we will go ahead and do Roll Call Attendance please. I
will do Roll Call. All here, good. We will start this off with Discussion with the Meridian
School District, Christine Donnell. Its nice to see you Christine.
Donnell: Thank you very much. Thank you to the City Council for always making me
feel welcome and giving us an opportunity to meet with you on a somewhat informal
basis -- so we record, do we? Just a couple things that I would like to talk to you about.
First of all, I think that probably, as Bill was telling me, that you got a letter inviting you to
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the open house at Ponderosa Elementary. We are opening that on August the 22, the
ribbon cutting followed by a barbeque that Belynda Gissel has put together for all the
parents and all the folks there to celebrate the opening at Ponderosa. We have been
excited about that school because its probably the first elementary school we have had
in a while that is actually been done for a while, and it has allowed us time to get moved
in and get settled a bit. Other than the fact that we did have that piece of playground
equipment that got burnt – it is now gone. The replacement wont be here for a while,
wont be there for the kids at the beginning of school but it will be up sometime soon. So
come and enjoy that. It is a gorgeous school. It is exactly, with some small changes in
some colors, just like River Valley and Peregrine. I think it’s a nice addition to that
neighborhood and they are loving it. I might mention that our registration that started
Monday has really been very increased. More than we anticipated. We budget for 1081
new students this coming year and we certainly hope we get that, but it looks like, the
way people continue to come in, and all the calls that we get that we may have more.
Last year it was 1200, so we may get that. The other thing that I am sure that President
de Weerd is the press release on the Boys and Girls Club on Wednesday. I will be
there, certainly, to talk about the need for our students to have a place to go. Our kids in
the city to go after school when they are more likely to get in trouble, so this will be great
Meridian City Council Regular Meeting
August 13, 2002
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for them to have a place. The city has been great to give that leased facility to us. We
are excited to get that going. That was just one other thing that I wanted to mention. I
would like to say we are in negotiation for bus facility property, once again. of course we
are not having it, based on the Comprehensive Plan, out at the Ten Mile and Ustick
area, and we dealt with that. We are looking at another piece of property that seems like
it may work for us and I hope we could have cooperation and have a place to get all
those buses someplace where it wont bother neighbors or infrastructure. So we will
hope that we get that going. With that, I would be happy to answer any questions you
might have about what is happening at the school district.
De Weerd: Council, do we have any questions? Council member McCandless.
McCandless: Christine, I was reading that article in the paper this morning about the
lowered registration for the year round school. So I am just curious about that. Do you
anticipate it to keep going in that direction, do you anticipate changing that?
Donnell: Council member McCandless, I never like headlines that are written by
headline writers instead of the reporters. There were two headlines in the paper
yesterday. One that said of course, that enrollment is dropping, we are losing kids to the
traditional. The other on the inside of the local, I am sure you noticed, that we are
scurrying for bond support. Well we are not scurrying much, but I guess that got some
attention. We are just excited about putting it before the patrons because I know we can
demonstrate a need. The registration at our year round schools, particularly is down at
Chaparral. That was expected because of opening Ponderosa. Many of the kids were
there. So we anticipated that we were going to move quite a few teachers and have a
lower enrollment. Lower than 800 is just fine with me. We haven't even collapsed a track
there. We have collapsed a track at Pioneer. If you remember, years ago, Pioneer was
our first year round, multi track school. We have a very wide transportation zone that
would feed into that school, we gave a lot of our parents and children the opportunity to
attend that school and we transported them. As that is built up, as we open Andrus,
and Chief Joseph and another out there on Locust Grove when the bond passes this
fall, I expect that too will show a decreased enrollment. Once again, I think anything less
than 700 is just fine. The issue that we have with year round is that when we changed
the policy this last fall after going thru a big committee process to allow to actually
provide transportation for parents who lived in a year round zone, and that was not
favorable for them to go to a traditional school. Then we saw kids that moved. Parents
made the choice to have their children go to a traditional school. Where we always
loose enrollment is at the fourth and fifth grade. Parents knowing that they go on a
traditional schedule at middle school and high school begin to make that change. So
that happens to us until they get there. If we had a year round middle school, I think we
would see the enrollment stay. But its going to be interesting to see. We have been into
some interesting discussions about the possibility having a completely different type of
schedule like a one-track system throughout for elementary. I have always said that if I
could have just one wish that I would want to have in the school district it would be that
our teachers were actually on a year round contract, maybe something like two
hundred, two hundred five, ten days. And that the children were on like a Track A or E
which means they attend school and then they have the breaks. It is very close to
traditional but it has a shorter summer break and it has periods of time that are longer
Meridian City Council Regular Meeting
August 13, 2002
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during the school year and that would be the time we could train teachers and not have
to use substitutes. So that is my vision. I am going to retire before I ever get there. But
it’s a great one. Maybe the next superintendent will stay on with some kind of idea like
that. I think it could be exciting but we – year round, the multi track system provides
capacity, and that is what we needed in this district. We would not be able to at this
point, to be able to stop doing year round because we wouldn’t have the space to
absorb them in our traditional schools.
De Weerd: I am a year round parent. My daughter is now going to Ponderosa because
my older daughter is now middle school and I don’t like them on two different schedules.
We did that last year and it just – well the thing I like about year round schools is that
the non-traditional family time you have, not every other family has it. It’s a great family
vacation time, but we were taking our middle-schooler out and it was probably the
wrong message. And probably not the message I should be sharing with the
superintendent. But family time was very important too. With that said, is there any other
questions? I do have one. I have gotten a slew of phone calls from parents in the
Chaparral area, they know I am a Council member and I used to have kids being
swarmed by mosquitoes and I did call Marilyn and I wanted to ask this question today.
In reading disturbing articles about the West Nile and diseases that are coming through
mosquitoes and we need to be a little bit more proactive. As our citizens call us, instead
of just saying call the school district, I think it would important to know what your policy
is mosquito abatement, if you have a regular schedule for treatment of the mosquitoes, I
know in Chaparral they encouraged bringing mosquito spray to school with your kids.
Which one parent said I cringe thinking about sending a can with my first grader, he
would be spraying everyone else and him. So I have learned a bit more since the phone
call I made yesterday. But we do like to –
Donnell: I can respond to your question a little. I did ask Wendell to check with Wayne
about what to do when we get complaints about mosquitoes. We do call the mosquito
abatement, on an as needed basis. We do not have a regular schedule of spraying for
them. Generally when we get complaints from the school. Wayne did not remember
having anyone from Chaparral call. Maybe its just been the summer, I don’t know. We
would do that if we knew. I absolutely do not know of them requiring kids to bring bug
spray.
(inaudible)
De Weerd: But you can bring bug spray.
Donnell: That is something I will check up on, because not something we want our kids
to have to do is bring bug spray.
De Weerd: Mayor Corrie.
Corrie: They are running about three to four weeks behind, and we have checked with
the golf course and they have requested it, and they are about three weeks behind. In
neighborhood, each neighborhood call and they will come out based upon a call from
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August 13, 2002
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the neighborhood. As a school, you are absolutely right, you would have to call them to
come out. I have talked to them and they are running behind.
Donnell: It may have something to do with watering systems because that is usually
where you see them. I know with the golf course, they have been bad, but I have yet to
see a mosquito in my neighborhood. I don’t know who is calling but someone has.
De Weerd: They are all over in west Meridian.
Corrie: --must be somewhere because I couldn’t figure out where they would be three
to four weeks behind if no one called them.
De Weerd: One thing, I did talk to a parent who was really really good about making the
phone calls I suggested to her. She did find out the last couple years Chaparral had a
contact at mosquito abatement that really kept them scheduled. That person is not
scheduling this year, so the principal had not made a call, because he was assuming it
was being done. The mosquito abatement, they come and spray the front yard because
that is where the road goes, they are not getting the backyard where the school property
or park property or golf course or what have you is, I think the city needs to evaluate
storm water retention. Some of our requirements, because in some cases, they are
indeed breeding grounds for some of these mosquito larvae as well. So as we look at
being more proactive for next year, we need to examine our practices as well and see
how we can be a part of the solution. My experience is that is really increasing and we
need to pay attention to it. so they do have that taken care of. I believe they are going to
publish the phone number for mosquito abatement in the school newspaper, newsletter.
Mosquito abatement did say it is based on the number of calls they get, on how they are
scheduled.
Donnell: When you were talking to Mr. Brigham, did you ask him about the bug spray
requirement of having children bring it? or was it just a suggestion by a teacher or do
you know?
De Weerd: I talked to a parent, but when my kids went out there, they were encouraged
to bring bug spray.
Donnell: But by whom?
De Weerd: I don’t know if it was a teacher or even in the newsletter?
Donnell: I read all the newsletters so it wasn’t there. But I will check on that because
that is inappropriate.
De Weerd: You do need to spray them before they went to school.
Bird: Spraying them and taking spray is two different things.
De Weerd: but if you have been swarmed by mosquitoes at Chaparral, you wear bug
spray, you just do.
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August 13, 2002
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Bird: We had our little league practice out there for three years. I have been sprayed.
Donnell: I spent time with my grandchildren too, and my grandson was saying that
when they rode their bikes to Peregrine, they got attacked by a swarm they were all
over (inaudible) but maybe I am just not out there.
De Weerd: Dave, do your kids go to Chaparral? Do you remember the mosquito spray
issue?
McKinnon: I have one in Peregrine and one in Chaparral (inaudible)
De Weerd: But did they encourage spraying or –
(inaudible)
Donnell: I haven't either – it could have been an individual teacher who said to spray,
but its not a good suggestion so I will follow up on that one. But I know that we need to
look at it, look at that watering system too. We will do that.
De Weerd: If you could stay around for discussion number two on our Opticom, with
our Fire Department we would really appreciate that too.
Donnell: You bet. Thank you very much for your time.
Issue #2 Discussion concerning the Fire Department’s Comments /
Requirements for Opticom System
De Weerd: Christine, if you want to stay up here – Joe will just come up? We will move
to issue number two and we have both Deputy Chief Johnson and Deputy Chief Silva
here.
Silva: Thank you very much for having us. Councilman De Weerd, we had requested
time in a workshop setting to discuss the issues of Opticom. As you know, we project,
we attempt to budget for our Opticom installations on an annual basis. I believe we have
five installations this year that we have budgeted for or either anticipated that they
would be installed in certain locations. We always leave some funds available for an
installation that may have not been anticipated, so we kind of budget it like that.
Coincidentally, the school district installed three signals we had not anticipated in the
least bit, so we are going to be caught have to go back and retro fit those with the
Opticom system. The Opticom, in a retro installation is about $800 to $1000 more. The
new installations, if we install it at the time the signal is going in, is about $4000 in round
numbers. But if we have to retro fit a signal that has been installed, it is more. The
reason that this is being discussed, we are looking at some very large development in
the North Planning Corridor that is going to have numerous signals installed as a result
of that. Part of our challenge would be how to approach this, this is not something
specifically addressed in the fire code, so we don’t want to be in a situation where we
make a request for something that is really not part of our ability to enforce or require.
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August 13, 2002
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So we have to have some discussions with Council as to what their feelings are on this.
Currently, not only does the fire department use the Opticom system but also Ada
County Paramedics. They share the use of it, but not the cost of the installation. Which
places the fire department at somewhat of a disadvantage. But we have been going
along and trying to seek a longer term solution on cost sharing for Opticom installations.
Some of the difficulty, sometimes when, for example the school district is a single user.
In essence that signal is placed in a desire to control and allow parents and buses to
come out of a given school facility. In some cases, the impact is not so easy to assess.
Say for example, (inaudible) some form of an impact fee, if we had Silverstone and
Tuscany Lakes and Sutherland Farm and El Dorado to cost share in this, how do we
allocate that cost with that Opticom installation to those projects? So those are some of
our challenges. What we would like to do is discuss with you one of things that Boise
City has done is kind of struck an agreement with ACHD which we feel might be one of
the partners we want to see out their cooperation. Because they have an impact fee
schedule in place that is allocated to properties. They always know up front when a
signal is being proposed, when the installations are going in they know. So they are in a
much better standpoint to know how to time things. We would like to seek their
cooperation in kind of seeking out a solution to the problem of installations. Bill would
like to go over a bit of what Boise’s approach has been on installations.
Johnson: In my brief discussions with a couple of chief officers over in Boise, one thing
they did is they went through and spent about $1.2 million to retro fit all the current
signals in the City of Boise. They struck some agreement, and I am getting conflict on
how the agreement really reads – Council member Nary’s assistance in this in finding
out what kind of agreement they did strike with ACHD. Because Boise Fire to the best of
my knowledge is not buying any more Opticom systems. ACHD is doing that. Now
ACHD is saying they don’t have the money to purchase this, so I don’t know where the
funds are coming from for doing this, or if it’s a requirement on the developer when they
put in the development that they will put in an Opticom control signal. So I am still trying
to get more information on that, working at it but I haven't had much success. Another
issue that was brought up Wednesday at our discussion – Tammy was the (inaudible)
ACHD has, according to the Opticom company, they have the software to do it, it is just
a matter of waiting for them to come around and set the priorities. They haven't even
started setting the priorities in Boise to give fire priority over other users. For those of
you who don’t know, Opticom is used by several different users. It could be used by the
Ambulance, the fire, in larger cities, mass transit has it but it is set a lower priority than
say the fire department so we can come in and take control of the signal until we safely
pass. There are some things, the state does recognize the Opticom as a traffic safety
standard. I did find that out today in my discussion with Chief Ross. There are some
things there we can look at too.
De Weerd: Any thoughts?
Corrie: I have told Joe this, next EMS board meeting I am going to find out some
particulars from EMS and talk to Commissioners about the possibilities of sharing some
costs here. I don’t know how far I will get but we need to talk to them. Have you talked
to Jay Schwietzer about the co-effort they have with Boise?
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August 13, 2002
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Johnson: I haven't had a chance to do so, Mr. Mayor. I was trying to see what I could
find on the fire side first with contacts I knew.
De Weerd: And certainly our Council (inaudible)
Nary: I can look into that. I don’t know anything about (inaudible) from ACHD. I will see
what I can find out.
Corrie: If you like, I have to call Jay tomorrow anyway.
De Weerd: Christine?
Donnell: Just a question. I was trying to think where those three lights were that you
may not have known about. One I assume was Lewis and Clark Middle School?
Johnson: I am not one hundred percent sure but I think one is at Chateau and Linder at
Linder Elementary.
Donnell: That one is very old, it has been there forever. How long has it been there, do
you know?
De Weerd: A couple years.
Bird: How about ten or twelve. Linder and Chateau? Long time.
Johnson: Me being new the area, that is one I noticed didn’t have it.
Donnell: The others, do you know where they are?
Silva: Chief Bowers was the one who was telling us there was a couple new
installations we had not been made aware of. I am not really –
Bird: I thought we put Opticom in on Louis and Clark, that was put in (inaudible) on
Cloverdale and Emerald, thought that had Opticom – its very important. It has to be
done.
Silva: And especially when you get into the school zones.
Donnell: The reason I ask the question is because when we need a light and when they
build a new school there, we contact ACHD and ask them to put on in. so we don’t have
much control over that unless we enter into some agreement to share the cost of it and
we try not to do that. I think we are going to be, probably, sharing some cost in the one
that is going in on Overland in front of Millenium Drive where it goes into our new high
school. So I willneed to ask that question, it does seem like on many of them
(inaudible) rather than to have to go back and retro them. So we try not to get involved
in that expenditure. We just tell them we are going to create a traffic problem and then
we let the parents get them.
Meridian City Council Regular Meeting
August 13, 2002
Page 8 of 30
De Weerd: They give the phone number out and the address.
Donnell: But we certainly would be willing to make sure you are aware of any lights we
request. Again I cant think of any – no, the one in front of Pioneer on McMiIlan. We put
basic lights in the road there, but that flashing light –
Johnson: The ones we are actually (inaudible) are here in Meridian and Chief Bowers
that said he knew the location.
Bird: I think Eagle Road has the Opticom, don’t they?
Johnson: Well, Eagle and Ustick.
Bird: They don’t have the Opticom?
Johnson: I don’t think – if it does, my Opticom wasn’t set right to trip it when I lived on
(inaudible) but I never paid attention as I was watching too much traffic.
Donnell: I would expect that when the traffic light goes in behind the (inaudible) at some
point, by River Valley, that is a quarter mile area when that comes through, that is one
that would have to have it.
Silva: So you can see just based on general discussion, it is hard to anticipate when
signals are going to be installed and the time line associated with that makes the budget
process with the Opticom really difficult. So that is why we believe ACHD would be the
natural partner. If Council could support a request to seek out a partnership with them,
perhaps that its covered automatically as part of the baseline package when those
projects are being proposed.
Bird: I think we need to go to Boise’s deal. And see what kind of a deal they have.
ACHD is the one to partner with and it should be an automatic as far as I am concerned
unless its some little stop light in the back of some subdivision you don’t need. I think it
would be automatic that the Opticom goes on. I really do.
De Weerd: We do the development community to participate in a proportional share of
that traffic signal, so that should be part of the cost of the signal. Clair, do you have
something to add?
Bowman: I believe all the traffic signals ACHD (inaudible) in their five year program
(inaudible)
De Weerd: Great. But I think it would be advantageous to further the relationship
between Boise and ACHD and how they work that. Even look a bit further in that being
a cost of signalization that they pass on to developers, in those conditions. Is there
anything else? Any other questions?
Silva: Just a short term, how should we handle the comments on larger projects.
Should we put a general comment in, so Council could consider whether that should be
Meridian City Council Regular Meeting
August 13, 2002
Page 9 of 30
part of the requirements for a project? Would there be any concerns there from a legal
standpoint?
Nichols: Madam President, Mayor and members of the Council, I think particularly it
could be a requirement of the annexation and zoning (inaudible) but I would say given
the small cost associated with a large project (inaudible) I don’t see getting much
resistance from developers as it becomes a safety factor for their customer when selling
lots. As well as the life saving issues.
Silva: I am having difficulty getting – we have a combination of projects that go onto a
given intersection like Eagle and Overland, where you have El Dorado and Silverstone
and Sutherland Farms and Tuscany Lakes. They are all somewhat impacting that
intersection. A couple questions I received from the development community relating to
this issue, if we decided that we cannot seek out a partnership with ACHD, who would
receive the Opticom money? If the developer is willing to pay the expense of the
Opticom system as part of the installation of the signal, the mechanics of who should
received that money was one of the issues Becky Bowcutt made clear on one of her
projects she is a planner on. She suggested that one of the possible approaches would
be a trust fund approach that is used with regards to final plat approval. Then those
funds would be payable upon signature on the final plat, was what her thought was.
Then again, on a large project, it is not a significant expense. I believe that is all we
had.
De Weerd: It sounds like you are on the right track, talking to the right people. Maybe if
Bill can find something that will help you. I would like, if you could, a written update on
what you find. Maybe you could even include Christine in your distribution so that she
can keep an eye on that as well.
Silva: Thank you very much, I appreciate your time.
De Weerd: Thank you. Let us know. Bill let us know if there is anything we need to put
on a meeting with ACHD on prioritization or finding out a bit more about the system and
the timing implementation of that system.
Johnson: I did find out they have to visit each and every signal, they have to put the
information as to each Opticom emitter, puts off its own signal so they can track who is
using it at what time, give different people priorities. So there would be some
groundwork on our part, too.
Issue #3 Discussion concerning the Electrical Code Updating – Harold
Hudson
De Weerd: Well they still need to learn how to synchronize lights over here, so we have
some ways to go. Issue number three. Discussion concerning the electrical code.
Harold Hudson. Gary did you want to join us as well? I need to apologize, Harold that
thth
your letter is dated May 10, its received June 10, and we didn’t have a workshop in
July and this is the first opportunity we have had to visit your issue. I did understand
Meridian City Council Regular Meeting
August 13, 2002
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that my final approval of my electrical inspection was at risk because of this? Just
thought I would let you know that.
Hudson: I hope you are going to unplug that temporary wiring on the table.
De Weerd: Is this not to code, Will?
Berg: Its temporary.
De Weerd: This is our risk manager over there.
Berg: No more costs to City Hall.
De Weerd: There are some things inspectors are not supposed to notice.
Hudson: Like I tell all the contractors when we are walking around and I am doing an
inspection on the building, I say whenever you want to talk to the electrical inspector,
get him out of the building, he is looking around. And you would be surprised how much
you catch if you spend an extra minute. I really – I received this ordinance update. I
understand that when I went through and tried to bring everything up to date, I used an
out of date ordinance. I received it last night, and I worked on it as much as I could. But
I am not sure I caught everything. So hopefully, the main point, being that we want to
recognize that we are wanting to adopt the 2002 code. And that there is a lot of safety
changes. If you look at your old ordinance. It goes back to 1990. Technically, that is
where we should have (inaudible) Irregardless, we do need to get the 2002 code
current. That code changes every three years. Some years are not quite as extensive
as the 2002. However, this year we have what is called arc fault system (inaudible) a
system that is in all bedrooms of residential construction. With out us really adopting
this code, technically, I cannot enforce that. Its in the state, but we have our own rules
and regulations in the city.
De Weerd: So can I get different outside covers on my electrical outlets?
Hudson: I have not been requiring that design that you have on your house. Until they
come up with a more substantial cover, a more usable cover, I am letting the
contractors use what is current with the 1999 code. Boise City and the State, they want
the bubble cover irregardless. What I see, you have the clear plastic one on your house,
correct? What I see with that, you will use that one time, you’ll break the hinge and the
cover will be gone. You will use it for a small part container. I see the writing on the
wall.
Nary: Madam President.
De Weerd: Yes Mr. Nary.
Nary: is there some – I don’t know who the user groups are to have gone to when we
pass this code so they know this is coming, so they are not caught – I guess I don’t
Meridian City Council Regular Meeting
August 13, 2002
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want whatever user groups, contractors, whatever to be coming in and saying, we are
not ready for this change.
Hudson: They are because we have been enforcing this since the first of the year. This
year, I have taken upon myself to enforce the 2002 code. Whereas the State of Idaho, it
st
became the law, within the State of Idaho, July 1. So all the contractors are aware that
they have to comply with the 2002 code.
Nary: On the building code, Gary, is the building code the most – this is obviously the
most recent adoption of the electrical code – is the building code the 2002?
Bird: -- seems the last one was 1997 or 1999.
Smith: I think the last one was 1997 but there is a new code out now this year, that is
an international building code, rather than a uniform building code. They are not
publishing that any longer so it is now an international building code. I have gathered
that information, I don’t have it to you yet. I have been gathering information from our
plumbing and mechanical inspectors and Daunt on the codes that should be adopted
and any exceptions that they feel are necessary to those codes. That will be getting to
Bill very shortly. I think our mechanical inspector had a meeting with his group and they
were going to discuss the code, so I expect to get some information form him in the next
day or two. I have the plumbing inspector’s information and I don’t think Daunt had any
exceptions to the international building code.
Nary: Fire Code?
Bird: That is part of the UBC.
Nary: So that is not a separate code.
Hudson: This code, the code I enforce, is written by the NFDA (inaudible). It is taken
out of 70. that is their – I am at a loss for words – section that is their section they use.
All these are subsections of the – now there is one other change that was in your
ordinance. That falls under 10-3-2, state license required. This has been required for a
couple years now, that the State is the only licensing authority within the State of Idaho.
The State Electrical Bureau is the only licensing authority. We cannot license within the
City. We used to.
Smith: We haven't for some time.
Hudson: Since 1998 or 1999.
Smith: I think someone called it to our attention.
Bird: Harold, has anyone – excuse me Madam President, has anyone locally adopted
the 2002 code yet?
Hudson: Oh yes.
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August 13, 2002
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Bird: Everyone has, we are basically behind? Boise, Nampa and Caldwell have got it?
Hudson: I don’t know about Nampa and Caldwell, but I do know Boise City has, they
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had it adopted and in place by January 1. that is really when this needs to come in, is
January 1. The state, their year end is July 1. so they go from January 1 to July 1,
sitting on the fence, if they feel like enforcing something that fits the new code, they do
and if they don’t, they don’t. The contractors say, why aren't you uniform? That is one
thing they say about me. If I call them on one thing, everyone is called on the same
thing. I don’t vary. I try not to vary. Given that, we need to have these updated by
January 1.
De Weerd: We need to reflect what you are enforcing.
Smith: January 1 of each year?
Hudson: Every three years. The next would be 2005.
Nary: Madam President.
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: So I think process wise, you have to get those changes and any other information
to the Bill and we can have it on our agenda.
Smith: I think we are going to try to get them all together, to Bill to get to you for action.
Bird: Is that the IBC 2002?
Smith: Yes, the international building code – now the uniform plumbing code is still the
same. They are not imposing the international plumbing code. But the international
mechanical I believe will also be proposed to be adopted with some – depending on
what they results of their association meeting were, if there were exceptions or – the
State of Idaho has issued that set of amendments to the uniform plumbing code that I
have received a copy of that from my plumbing inspector so I will forward that to Bill.
De Weerd: I see the second part of this, outside of the code adoption, and ordinance
update is the fee or permit fee increase.
Hudson: I don’t know if you have a copy of this, but I – the State of Idaho, in 1999, did a
fee increase. They have been probably thirteen years. the City of Meridian has been
eleven to twelve years since their last fee increase. What the State did was they took
out the room count. They took out charging $15 – does everyone have a copy of this –
Bird: Yes we do Harold.
Hudson: I put that together so you would have some idea of what the comparison
would be. What you are looking at is possibly, approximately, a 30 percent increase. For
Meridian City Council Regular Meeting
August 13, 2002
Page 13 of 30
example, a single family residential new construction, I don’t have the room count,
probably nine or ten rooms would be up to a 200 amp service, you have a $25 fee. The
first room is $5, each additional is $3.50, $15 for an air conditioner, because those are
the most common things used on each residence. The average is around $87.00 for
that permit, but we have had recently some large houses, and I have seen some
permits come through at $105 and $130 per house. (***End of Side One***) -- cross
the page to the new fee schedule, you will see there is no longer a room count. No fee
for the air conditioner. Everything is a flat fee, $120 flat fee for up to 200 amp. It is $210
for a 400 amp, the reason being is that we have more panel, more circuitry we need to
check, so therefore we need to be compensated. Apartments – same basic thing. All the
way through, temporary services appears to be almost doubled. So that would be what
you would figure, probably a 50 percent increase on temporary services. Well you figure
in today’s fuel prices and the number of trips, it would have to be. Commercial,
commercial is the one I spend an awful lot of time on commercial. I give them any
number of inspections that they need. The State of Idaho gives them three, that is it.
Now, Michaels of Oregon, out there in (inaudible) I have probably been out there a
dozen times already. St. Luke's hospital I was probably out there two hundred times,
maybe more. An hour to an hour and a half each time. We would do a section of each
floor. So the commercial is where the time is involved. The residential is pretty basic.
Bird: Harold, how do these new fee schedules compare to the other cities? Does it put
us up closer to them?
Hudson: I can – Nampa and Caldwell are below us now. Boise City is above us. I did a
quick calculation, I did find the fee that was most recent in Boise but I had in my – the
base fee, Boise’s base fee is $62.63. That is only counting one room and one additional
room. Meridian is $48.50, so they are $13.13 higher than us.
De Weerd: Their current fee schedule is still based on service plus the rooms, that sort
of thing.
st
Hudson: Yes. Now I have the new fee schedule in place in Star since the 1 of June
and it works great. The secretaries over there, they come in and they ask them what
size service, they tell them 100 amp or 200 amp, they write out the permit for $120 and
they are on their way. This one we have to count how many rooms, size of service, and
whether you have A/C or hot tub – if you have a hot tub its an additional $25 on the old
current fee – in the new fee it is included in the $120. So you get that, it is going to
even out a little more.
Nary: Gary is the intent with fees to bring that with the ordinance change forward, so
we just need to get he advertising done ahead of time? The requirements for (inaudible)
and that is BCA so they are not going to say wait a minute, we want to evaluate it, have
they had an opportunity to at least provide some comment about it?
Smith: I haven't submitted anything to BCA, I don’t know if Harold has.
Hudson: No. I haven't.
Meridian City Council Regular Meeting
August 13, 2002
Page 14 of 30
(inaudible)
Nary: I just figure whatever user groups that are affected, would be a plus to give them
the opportunity to give some comment. They may want to come comment, I don’t think
they would, but if they did think they were out of line or too high, or whatever, they
would have the opportunity to give you some input before its on our agenda.
De Weerd: I think most immediate right now is that we get the ordinance updated.
Harold and Gary can look at this tonight, I know I called Gary and asked if we could
have a cost analysis and how it measures up to what others are doing. I think that is
even important as you answer questions to your constituency on why, how you got
there and why you want to increase this. How to justify those increases and indeed run
it by your user groups and the BCA. They have subcontractors as we (inaudible) and
get feedback so that the – I think its very important that we get the ordinance updated
so that what you are requiring in inspections are mirrored in what we are asking in our
ordinance and then we can do that fee structure right and maybe along with the other
inspection fees.
Bird: That is what I was going to mention while we are doing it, getting this all on line by
st
January 1, 2003, lets get all the building department fees evaluated and make sure we
are up to date on all of them.
Smith: Madam President, can we bring the ordinances to you right away to get those
updated, and then bring the fees in later as a resolution rather than including them in
the ordinance? Or how should we – I don’t even know how these are adopted now, I
don’t think they are in the ordinance now. They are?
(inaudible)
Nichols: Madam President, Mayor and members of Council, I think the way its worded
now is the fees are set by the Council (inaudible) resolution, so we could do it either
way. The way your current ordinance reads you could bring forward a fee structure
(inaudible)
De Weerd: I think I would rather proceed with the ordinance, get that updated, and
make sure we run these fees by the appropriate individuals and user groups so that
they know what is coming. I am sure you already shared this with many user groups but
we want to make sure that the public knows what is coming up.
Hudson: What we really need to do if you are serious about bringing this in line is to let
them know early enough that they can include that in their bidding process. This is what
they need to know. Now the commercial doesn’t raise that much. it is just, it is almost
identical. It is on the low end commercial upgraded.
Bird: So you are going to change the deals on commercial, bidding on jobs in August
and September that you might be purchasing the license in January. They might want to
know they are facing that increase and the amount.
Meridian City Council Regular Meeting
August 13, 2002
Page 15 of 30
Hudson: The ones that are affected by that, Keith, they are normally your high end
bidders. That doesn’t change. The high end is identically the same. The low end, the
$2000 below is affected by this schedule.
De Weerd: Any thoughts Mr. Mayor?
Corrie: No. Sounds good.
Bird: Sounds very good.
De Weerd: Do you have what you need Harold to move forward?
Hudson: I guess I am a little confused. I retyped this last night, what do we need to do
with it? Did I –
Smith: I am going to give that to Bill Nichols. He will put that in a form of an ordinance
changed to present to the city Council for enactment. He will do that along with the
others, plumbing, mechanical and building so they all come in at once.
De Weerd: And since the others fall under the IBC, this one is a little different. This
could even come through now and not wait for the other codes. Is that correct?
Nichols: (inaudible) part of my confusion was when Mr. Hudson originally sent it over,
at least I first saw, I had it mixed up with all the other (inaudible) in the legislature, so the
(inaudible) the building codes and I had to sort it all out (inaudible) a few other things, so
we can do this one. This one is all ready to go. I think the other thing that would be very
helpful to me is if you simply provide me the old code, the current existing code, marked
up when there are revisions. Where we delete something, we have to strike through it,
when we add something, we have to underline it. so the clean copy that I think you
worked so hard to produce isn't the way the ordinance has to be put together. So a
marked up copy of the current ordinance would be helpful in getting me started.
De Weerd: The nice thing about Word is that you can merge those documents and
compare them and it shows you, it does the work for you.
Hudson: I don’t know how to do that.
De Weerd: Do you have that in Word?
Hudson: No, I have a McIntosh. I have the good computer.
De Weerd: That was your mistake. I think probably Word and McIntosh does the same
thing. You just have to know which function key to hit.
Hudson: I don’t have that in my computer. I did this on (inaudible).
De Weerd: Well, you can work that out with Gary.
Meridian City Council Regular Meeting
August 13, 2002
Page 16 of 30
Smith: We can do that. We can get the old code on and do some strike outs. You just
need a marked up set and you will do the rest of it.
Nichols. Yes, if its legible handwriting, that is all I need.
Smith: Okay, we will just take the old code, go through it, make notes and ship it to Bill.
Issue #4 Discussion / Presentation concerning the Air Quality Issue – Clair
Bowman of COMPASS
De Weerd: Okay, if there is nothing further. Harold, thank you. Never get the electrical
inspector mad at you. Spell his name right because he may not pass you on your next
inspection. Thank you. Thanks Gary. Issue number four. Discussion and presentation
regarding Air Quality, which I think we have all seen the effects of in the last several
weeks. In following that, David McKinnon is here with the dust abatement ordinance that
we have been looking at.
Bowman: Madam President and members of the Council I have brought a couple folks
with me tonight because there sometimes comes a point in your workload where it is
appropriate to pass some things off to other people. We are in the process of making
two pass offs within COMPASS. Matt Stolt has been hired away from DEQ I might add,
as our person in charge of transportation planning program. Herb will move out of that
role and become a true associate director for the organization like my right hand person
and he will no longer have any staff supervision responsibilities. So Matt, does report
directly to me now as the person in charge of the transportation air quality program.
June Ransel has been on our staff a couple of times over the past few years with an
interlude in Seattle somewhere stuck in there. We have just promoted her to a project
manager role for the air quality program working under Matt and pretty much after
tonight’s session is over, I am going to hand off responsibility for all of this air quality to
June and Matt. Mostly to June in this case. Let me provide a couple minutes of
background, we have a video we would like to show you. Some of this background is
redundant for several of you, I hope you will bear with me. Several years ago, the EPA
took an action on behalf of Ada County to swap a set of regulations for particulate
matter, eliminating an old one and implementing a new set. Because of our elevation
above sea level and the way the old rules were written, the new ones were more
advantageous to us. A local group, the Idaho Clean Air Force sued to block
implementation of that. They sued the EPA. COMPASS volunteered to join that lawsuit
as a codefendant with EPA. Our function there largely was to protect the interests of
local government in Ada and Canyon Counties and their options to implement a
balanced transportation and air quality controls on their own terms rather than on terms
dictated by EPA or by a judge in a lawsuit. We were successful in working through to a
settlement on that agreement. There were several components on that. One was that
COMPASS would seek funding for and DEQ would implement, a new planning process
to development a maintenance plan for particulate matter in Ada County. And would do
it in a two year frame. An unheard of short time frame for something like that. It is
currently on schedule, it is due to be submitted to the EPA within the next 45 days. It will
demonstrate that indeed we have the mechanism available under our own control right
now to maintain the particulate matter in the valley at acceptable levels for the next 15
Meridian City Council Regular Meeting
August 13, 2002
Page 17 of 30
and hopefully 20 years. The 20 year horizon becomes a bit of a problem. It becomes
less of a problem if you take some of the actions we are proposing uniformly across the
two counties here. I will be talking about that in just a minute. A second piece of the
agreement was that the EPA agreed to cut its three to five year review time on that plan
once it is submitted down to twelve months. So we strongly anticipate that by
September 30, 2003, we will become a maintenance area for particulate matter
pollution. A third component, and the one that really brings me here tonight, the third
component of that settlement agreement was that during the interim three years, the
two years for the development of the plan, the one year for the EPA review of it,
COMPASS would support unilateral reductions in particulate matter to certain agreed
upon levels that are codified in the settlement agreement. The first year of those
reductions was accomplished entirely by the Ada County Highway District paving roads
that were still graveled or providing a surface fixing agent on an ongoing basis to some
of the roads that remained graveled, in order to cut down the dust on them. The next
two years are anticipated to be accomplished with the package that the COMPASS
Board, several months ago, directed me to come to each of the Council s and seek
implementation. June and I met a month or so ago in Bill’s absent with Terry White, and
with Shari, gave them copies of some language that we are proposing for ordinance
structures. I just picked up some information a bit ago that somehow we missed getting
copies of those things to the rest of you. I don’t know how that happened, but we will
rectify that tomorrow. June will be getting copies for all the Council members, the
Mayor, for Bill and Shari and her staff to ensure that we have the most current copy in
everyone’s hands. I would like to go back to the video for a second – well, five minutes.
It is our effort to pose the issue, help you folks understand some of the need for this in
the way that we will be sharing with every City Council and Commission in the two
county area, or already have or will be sharing. It ends with a 30 second spot that
appears a bit disconnected on this video. But that last 30 seconds is an advertisement
that we currently have running on a valley-wide saturation target on Channel 7. I will tell
you more – we will be following that up with some others – June, let’s start that.
(video tape plays)
(inaudible)
Bowman: Thank you. The request we have of the City of Meridian, and of all 14
incorporated cities in the two counties, and of each Commission, is to adopt four
ordinances. Two of those you already have in place. Mandatory controls limits on the
burning of household solid waste, and we prefer yard waste to be controlled as well.
And with that a mandatory trash pick up. It is silly to have in place, a total control of the
burning without having mandatory trash because what the experience is of a couple
cities who have tried it is that you soon encourage folks to take their trash onto public or
private property and deposit it instead of leaving it for trash pick up. You essential have
both pieces of that in place. We will be looking to improve the power, however we can,
the enforcement of your existing burning controls. DEQ gets some indication that there
are still violations occurring inside city limits in the incorporated cities of Ada County.
There is a lot more evidence outside the limits and we are proposing in future
advertisements of the nature put together here, will identify a telephone number that
was on this one, we will be featuring in future advertisements for folks to call with
Meridian City Council Regular Meeting
August 13, 2002
Page 18 of 30
violations when they suspect violations. We will have someone answer that telephone,
and we want to enter into an agreement with the City of Meridian so that when we get
one of those calls and we can identify the caller as being in or relating to the City of
Meridian, we have an agreement to place with you as to where that call gets routed and
to whom and what the agreements are to improve enforcement on that. The other two
ordinances are ones that I know you have been contemplating, in some features for
some time, but we would like to see them both implemented as soon as it is practical for
you to do so. One of those is track out control. That is eliminating the track out of mud,
dirt debris, rocks, and so on, onto the paved roads within the city limits. The second is to
require all loads of dirt, trash, garbage, lawn waste, everything that might emit
particulate matter when it is transported down the road, to be covered. We have taken
both of those latter two discussions to the BCA of southwest Idaho and the Associated
General Contractors. We also during the settlement agreement discussions, two years
ago, met with those folks, and indicated that we would honor one of their requests and
that is to seek these ordinances across both Ada and Canyon Counties even though the
settlement agreement applies technically only to Ada County. Those ordinances are
moving forward perhaps even faster in Canyon County than in Ada County. The Canyon
County Commission has already had its public hearing on those four ordinances as well
as the vehicle inspection maintenance program. They are going forward with all of
those. That is my expectation that will happen in the next few weeks, is my guess.
Caldwell and Nampa are also ready to forward us, as soon as we can get on their
agendas for City Councils, and make this presentation to them, we are scheduled with
Garden City. We have already spoken to other folks at the other cities in Ada County.
This is a broad based effort and we would be prepared to answer any questions about it
-- obviously we have some text to get to Bill so that the pieces we are proposing to be
uniform across the two counties, he has available in a form that you are accustomed to
seeing.
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I don’t know whether it’s June or Clair. On the haulers, the big belly dumps and
stuff, they didn’t complain about having to cover those loads? Did you get much
feedback from them or I was wondering if, watering down like we recommend on
construction sites. How about instead of covering some of those big dumps, if you
watered it down – has that been an alternative or has that even been mentioned?
Bowman: We have not included that as an alternative at this point. We did look at a
much broader construction dust minimization program earlier this spring. The
COMPASS Board had the feeling that that focused too much on the construction
industry and we needed to look at some other sources to gain some reductions to which
we had committed. The open burning turned out to be the second major source of
particulates and it also is a major source of toxics and other things. So the marrying of
a portion of the impact that we had originally proposed on the construction industry with
the burning controls, got us the reductions to which we had committed and yet without
hitting the construction industry alone. I believe that level of compromise was part of
why both organizations have been willing to sit back and not object formally. In fact we
have had individual members of the leadership of those organizations stand up in our
meetings and say we think you are on the right track.
Meridian City Council Regular Meeting
August 13, 2002
Page 19 of 30
Corrie: Madam President, I have a question. I don’t know if you can answer this Clair or
not, but you are gong to be seeing on television in the next day or two, and we have
already been called about it, is this chip sealing roads. Have you been called? What
effect does that have with ACHD or the County, will not chip seal. They are supposed to
water it but they don’t.
Bowman: That is a June question.
Ransel: Yes, it would if they didn’t do chip sealing. We actually, I just talked to some
people today that were from DEQ regarding the same issue, and she said this is an
ongoing problem. Each time ACHD does this, they generate a lot of complaints. She
made some calls to California, they have a lot of things in the area of air quality. One of
the things they have pretty much prohibited CalTrans from doing any type of chip
sealing. They don’t even do it any more. They tried numerous things from triple washing
the gravel or chips before they put them down on the road, but there was nothing they
could do, it is a dirty process.
Corrie: Of course ACHD gong to be the leader in lowering the PM count. I was just
wondering if that would help if they eliminated that. We get some complaints in my office
which I can’t do much about. But I know Channels 2, 7 and 6 have been contacted and
they have taken pictures.
Ransel: I have it on my list of things to do I was finishing up before we came here
tonight, to call (inaudible) tomorrow and talk to her about possible alternatives and see
what is available.
De Weerd: Any questions? Gary?
Smith: President, Mayor and Council, I was just wondering about enforcement of these
ordinances. Where does that fall? To the city staff or if its city ordinance I suppose some
one will have to enforce it.
De Weerd: Public Works.
Smith: Thank you.
Corrie: I suppose one of the new code enforcement officers we are hiring, we are hiring
a new one, would be in on that. I don’t know (inaudible)
Nichols: President De Weerd, it really hasn’t been talked through. The covered load
issue it might be something where patrol officers would see those. The open burning
would be a code enforcement issue. So how you actually enforce this is really
(inaudible)
De Weerd: Discussion at COMPASS, also led to the open burning – the City of
Caldwell realizes that the fire department often times goes out on those calls, to be the
enforcer or attention giver. I don’t know. In the conversations and presentation that you
Meridian City Council Regular Meeting
August 13, 2002
Page 20 of 30
have been given, what enforcement measures have been coming up? What different
ideas are out there?
Bowman: We have in our language that we will get to you tomorrow, the language we
have distributed to everyone throughout the two counties, well, a couple folks will follow
up on your behalf , we will get that to you. There are several enforcement mechanisms
contemplated in there and it is essentially a pick them list. You get to choose what
works in your particulate environment. One of those is indeed to have the police
involved. A second is to have the fire department involved on the open burning side. A
third is to have a code enforcement officer involved. A fourth which I am not sure we
had it in that document, but it has clearly come forward as a fourth that is likely to be
used, is to make use of the advertising and promotional things that COMPASS is doing
and this single phone number to call for violations so that we become a part of the
enforcement mechanism through receiving calls and routing them to folks whom we
know are likely to take action. Or we have had discussion with one of the legal firms
who represents six of the small cities in the two counties indicating that it may be that
they work out a joint powers agreement with us, so that we actually have a code
enforcement officer on staff who is empowered via joint powers agreement to issue
citations for at least the open burning and track out. We don’t particularly want fines for
folks who track out, we simply want the track out to be cleaned up. So the language we
have proposed in the ordinances gives the city or the county the authority to have the
fire department and clean the street and then bill the contractor for the cost of that if you
have some negotiation with them and they do not clean it up promptly. There is a way to
eliminate the problem quickly. I don’t see much of a way to implement – I agree with Bill
here. The covered load issue will be police, it is a moving violation. It becomes a police
issue and I don’t code enforcement officers are likely to be involved.
De Weerd: Now the covered load, does that cover even transportation of yard
materials, bark and stones and –
Bowman: Its covers anything in the definition.
Ransel: It covers anything – the definition covers anything that would add to or cause
particulate matter. Dirt, rubble, rocks –
De Weerd: Have you worked with the local nurseries and those that sell bark? I know
how messy that stuff is.
Ransel: What we have found in going to different cities is that some cities want to go
that far and restrict that and some don’t. Some want to look at gravel and rock and dirt
and that is something that we are leaving to their prerogative in the ordinance. What we
are asking for is anything that cause or adds to particulate matter or air pollution, such
as rock, gravel, dirt – construction loads that go to and from quarries and such. The
grass and landscaping material we didn’t specify. But those are issues.
Bowman: There will be an issue for nurseries who have topsoil for example. Typically
that topsoil is powdery dry and has been screened for rocks. We will have an issue
Meridian City Council Regular Meeting
August 13, 2002
Page 21 of 30
there, the covered loads rule would apply to those hauling topsoil. Victory Greens to
Meridian Manor.
(inaudible)
Bowman: Like you said, that with bark.
De Weerd: I know. Mr. Bird.
Bird: On the agricultural, you probably get more mud on these roads from tractors and
stuff coming out of fields. They are exempt?
McCandless: Even sugar beets?
Bowman: The cleaner acts amendments of 1990 did indicate that agriculture is not a
target for those practices that are put in place in order to comply with federal mandates.
We are not in that situation today. This is essentially an action being contemplated for
the good of the air by the City of Meridian. And the language that we have proposed is
a complete ban on track out. So it does affect agricultural sites. You have don’t have
very many inside the incorporated city limits of the City of Meridian. You do have a few
small fields. They tend to be alfalfa and straw. Wheat fields. So they are not the
problem sources that beet fields and cornfields are. But there is no guarantee that
someone on those would not plant beets again. The beets are gone inside the city
limits.
De Weerd: Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Mayor, members of the Council, Mr. Bowman, one of the issues if the county
doesn’t have a similar ordinance, then the track out of farmers (inaudible) 20 acres
parcel (inaudible) we cant annex them (inaudible) that is an issue for coordination by the
cities.
McCandless: Madam President: that is one of the things that annoys me is that
anything that happens in the county to fix the cities, and what they haul in the county,
for even auto emissions, to have it in Ada County and nowhere else is stupid because
they all drive here. Those things really bother me.
Bird: We are going to be community wide here on this one.
Bowman: Perhaps I could respond directly to both questions. Bill, I agree with your
assessment of rubber meets the road, literally. That is part of the reason why we are
seeking as consistent language as we can across all jurisdictions as we can. It makes it
easier on covered loads or track out, either one. It makes it easier for the contractors to
know what the rules are, so they are comparable across both counties. At this point I
think we will be successful in having quite comparable languages in sixteen sets of
ordinances on those too. That is my expectation (inaudible) reason to believe that we
will not be successful in that regard. In regard to the issue that you raised, council
member McCandless, the Canyon County Commission is I believe within two to three
Meridian City Council Regular Meeting
August 13, 2002
Page 22 of 30
weeks of adopting a vehicle inspection maintenance ordinance for Canyon County and I
believe most if not all cities in Canyon County will also adopt such an ordinance before
the first of the year. They are doing it entirely voluntarily as a piece of their statement
of commitment to help clean up the air in the Treasure Valley.
McCandless: It isn’t just Canyon County, it would be the other counties as well.
Bird: This means Valley County sells more license plates this year.
Nichols: That is another hotline number that you call.
De Weerd: Are there any other questions?
Bird: I have none. Very good presentation.
(***End of Side Two***)
Issue #5 Discussion of Dust Abatement Ordinance
Bowman: -- draft Fugitive Dust Ordinance is that you are approaching track out and
covered loads with a different set of definitions. So my first look at this is that you are
on the similar levels of control as what we are proposing. We will obviously take a
closer look at that and get some feedback to Dave or to Bill on that.
De Weerd: I think you have been in conversations with Dave on what he has been
working on. Okay – thank you. We will be looking forward to working with June and
Matt. Certainly better looking than Clair. See you in the morning.
Corrie: Madam President, if I may interject something here, we have another person
waiting -- at eight o’clock – do we continue with another six items or have her go home
or what is your pleasure? I hate to have this until ten o’clock and she is still waiting.
De Weerd: Well, I told her between eight and eight thirty, so that means David, short
and sweet.
McKinnon: Fifty words or less, I can do that. June is gong to send me their definitions
they have tomorrow to incorporate those into what we have got. In talking with
COMPASS we have actually handed things back and forth and the language I used to
create this was from a number of jurisdictions, but very heavily relying upon some
ordinances out of Pennsylvania because they were very simple. I think a good
ordinance is one that is simple to enforce and to read as well. So that is direction that I
have gone with that. The fugitive dust control, this can be updated, there is more recent
information on this I can track down so you have more recent information. COMPASS
was the generator of most information on this to give you some background. I can
incorporate the information they give us into an ordinance. I think it would be good for
us to have, like COMPASS said, something similar across the board.
Meridian City Council Regular Meeting
August 13, 2002
Page 23 of 30
De Weerd: And look at the enforcement options and how they affect the different
departments. It looks like enforcement could be widespread between the police and fire
and public works, P & Z and every city employee out there. So that will be the key to the
success or not, of this ordinance.
Nary: Madam President.
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: It is probably just a very minor point. I know that fugitive dust appears to be the
term (inaudible) and something that might be – one of the things we have seen in Boise
is a lot of opposition to this ordinance. Some of it, I think, not that it always makes a big
difference – this was an air quality enhancement ordinance. Air quality is another
(inaudible) cars. But its very hard to want to come here and say we are against that air
quality enhancement because everyone wants to be in favor of that. I think realistically
that is what we are trying to do, is to create an ordinance that is very positive also for
the industry because they don’t necessarily want to cause the erosion of air quality in
our community. They are just trying to get business done. So we are trying to meld
between trying to get business done and us enhancing that. I think fugitive dust always
brings a chuckle to most people because it doesn’t really relate to what they think of.
So maybe that is another part of this puzzle. Presenting that to the outside groups.
Corrie: Jessie James dust.
Nary: It is a minor point but I see that –
De Weerd: We will call you our wordsmith.
Bird: It is a very focal point and I think you are right. What you approach with is half the
selling.
De Weerd: Now we want to give this high priority so we follow the rest of the crew.
Now if you look at the strategic plan, they have dates in there. I think we are behind on
some and ahead on others. David and Shari have been working on those. Shari, is this
going to be a priority for Dave to iron out the details and work with you and Gary, Chief
Worley, since some of that will have policing affects and also Chief Bowers. It will be the
pivotal point of that.
Nary: One of the things I think is key in these kinds of ordinances that have such a
large user impact is that – my perspective isn’t that the people that are affected are
construction companies and what, you probably aren’t going to get a consensus. There
are a lot of people out there. That is okay. I think we are okay. We know what the
debate is and we feel like we tried to iron out as many problems as possible. But I don’t
want you to feel stalled by the fact we can’t get a consensus of people to agree to it. We
will listen to the debate, as many as you can work out, that is fine –
Meridian City Council Regular Meeting
August 13, 2002
Page 24 of 30
De Weerd: I think he has been working with them. They certainly are familiar with this
and I think if I recall, they were more amenable to what David was proposing than what
COMPASS was originally suggesting.
Bird: And Boise, I think Boise already did the legwork for us.
McKinnon: True. And I have been in contact with the head of the BCA. We talked about
the ordinance. They are behind this, like Clair said, they know something is going to
have to happen and they are agreeable to doing something. As far as they want to take
it, might not be as far as we want to take it but they are agreeable.
Bird: Boise made a lot of mistakes for us.
Nary: Exactly.
Corrie: We will all get together and go south to the tropics somewhere.
Issue #6 Discussion of Pre-Council Meeting Format
De Weerd: Thank you David. Thanks Shari. We will go ahead and try to get the Pre-
Council, one other discussion, unless you have another comment.
rd
Nichols: Just a reminder, starting September 3 --
De Weerd: We will have a format in place. So email ideas and between the Mayor and I
-- I think the mayor talked to (inaudible) today. Breakfast already?
Corrie: (inaudible) he was hungry too.
Bird: They serve good food.
Issue #7 Discussion concerning Business License Update
De Weerd: If you could email ideas, that would be helpful and we can get something
back to you. Staff included. Email ideas and we will try to incorporate them and get
them back out so we can see what is being proposed. Gary did you have an update on
the business license and perhaps a time frame or idea where we are going and how we
are going to get there?
Smith: Yes, I do. I don’t know if you got this in your box or not, I brought this late today
or early this morning. Let me gather those up for you real quick.
De Weerd: Okay, shall we skip to number 8? The mayor asked that that be added to
the discussion. Is Rick going to address this? You are the emotional support?
th
Smith: I will just read this real quick. On May 14 we had a workshop and following that
workshop, staff members, department managers and we met and discussed formulating
a proposal for you on this business license issue. I have listed some comments as a
Meridian City Council Regular Meeting
August 13, 2002
Page 25 of 30
result of that meeting. Basically the Waste Water Department is required by their
NPDES permit to create an inventory of commercial industrial users no later than April
2004. Shawcroft is going to move forward and get an inventory survey put together that
he will submit back to the committee members to review. The survey he is going to
create will have a list of questions that will precede to what he referred to as STOP
questions. At the point where the respondent gets to a STOP question, that will
determine whether they are to be included in the whole waste water survey. But the
questions before the STOP question will also give us enough information to then pass
along to police and fire -- as far as sending out additional survey questions to them for
information for police and fire. That is the proposal that we would present to you for
your consideration. We can make – put a comment on our billing that goes out to
commercial industrial users telling them that this inventory form is forthcoming so that
they know that it will be coming to them for information. Then we can mail with the
survey form a copy of our authority to do this. That is outlined in the NPDES program
as a requirement. Our building department can track the type of businesses on tenant
improvements, if permits are obtained. We also talked about putting this information on
our website. So I guess, Madam President, that is our proposal. But it will only affect, it
will be mailed to all industrial and commercial businesses depending upon what their
response to the questions preceding the STOP questions, will depend on whether or not
they are contacted either by Waste Water with a full fledged form for survey for waste
water and pretreatment issues or if the information is transferred to police and fire and
they feel it is necessary to contact that business for additional information.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor, have you had an opportunity to discuss this in the staff meeting
and find out – I know Kenny had a list they brought up with their staff meeting last week,
and are very in support of having a business permit license so that they know what kind
of businesses are where and when they change over from one use to the next. I know
Will has commented on the usefulness of that kind of thing for the City as a whole. For
both the police department and fire department, did specify businesses they would like
to track. Would this identify all those and require permits? Or would this take care of it?
Or is this something else?
Smith: It is our proposal that it would take care of identifying business that – it depends
on what the questions are. Like I say, the survey questions have not been formulated
yet. Shawcroft is going to do that. He will put together some questions that would
probably be more pointed waste water issues than others. But as a group which
includes the fire chief, police chief, myself, water department and waste water and Shari
too, we can formulate those questions that precede the STOP question, As John puts
it, that would identify for all departments whether they need to make further contact or
not. It was the wish of the Council to not blanket this thing for all businesses as far as
licenses are required. But I don’t think we know, we don’t know – we have to find out
which businesses need licenses or permits. This was our recommendation on how to
find out.
Nary: Gary, I understand the NPDES requirement and I understand the need to survey
businesses to see if they fit under the requirements for the NPDES permit. What I guess
what I am concerned with are the questions that don’t relate to that permit that are
looking for a different response, for a whole different purpose, but sort of channeling it
Meridian City Council Regular Meeting
August 13, 2002
Page 26 of 30
under this authority, that would concern me as a business owner. I can give you a quick
example as I know our time is short. We had an issue a number of years ago in the City
of Boise, where we would hire interns for the summer. They would go and do what we
called the dog survey and go to different neighborhoods and survey people as to how
many animals they had. They tell these folks, it is just a survey, we want to know how
many animals there are per capita in the city, that is what we were looking for. But when
you told us you had a dog and didn’t have license, then the licensing officer came
tomorrow. Fury flamed for that. Now all the sudden it’s a trust issue. I recognize the
need to identify certain businesses. What I am concerned about is that if it isn’t related
to this permit, its for another purpose, I mean if its all related to the permit, its public
information and we then take that information that is usable, that is fine. But what I am
hearing you saying is that we are going to craft questions that may not necessarily be
totally related to the permit requirements, and then use that information for a different
purpose. And I think that is a very tenuous position to be on – a trust issue with the
public. We ask them to provide input. All the sudden here comes the police officer, here
comes the licensing officer. I guess that makes me uncomfortable. I don’t know a
different tool off top of my head on how to find the information, but I am concerned in
using it, kind of (inaudible) purpose.
Corrie: I think what Gary after is particularly involved with the NPDES system and I
think you are right. If we limit it to that, that is fine. I think in answer to Shari, or
Tammy’s questions, we have discussed that in staff meetings. One of the things that
police had a special for different things, and the fire department has a different need. I
think that probably they can make up the businesses that they need to see licensed
rather than a survey. Like you said, people will get nervous when you have a survey
about businesses like this. So if you limit it to, Gary, on this, waste water and that type
of thing, I don’t see a problem with that type of thing. But that police and fire have a
special interest in certain things, and not blanket. They can include that in the ordinance
if they so desire.
Nichols: Madam President, Members of the Council, there may be some cross over type
questions that work. Please describe, do you have or store any chemicals for use.
Those kinds of things can impact the waste water side of this and would fit within this
inventory of these sites. But then certainly may have some applications as far as police
and fire departments are concerned for storing hazardous materials on site. That
certainly has an impact on waste water but is also something that the police department
and fire department should know about in case they have to go there. So it could be,
some questions – what I hear Councilman Nary saying, is before there is any survey
lets make sure that all the questions on the survey are related to this authority given to
you. Then if there is any information useful to protect life safety issues, particularly
those. Its not really a dog tag issue, its more of a really, are you aware as a business
owner you have a right (inaudible) –
De Weerd: So this could possibly take place of the need for a business license. The
end result would have the same information needed to keep an eye on them?
Nary: Bill is right, my concern is that what I was hearing you saying was that we were
crafting questions to fit under this but really to illicit a different response that was trying
Meridian City Council Regular Meeting
August 13, 2002
Page 27 of 30
to illicit something else. Again if its related to this permit and the authority for it, that
information is a public document, which I assume it would be, and the police and fire
can use that. I would gather a majority of the information that is going to be related to
police and fire issues may be education. They didn’t realize that they needed a permit or
better safety requirements installed. They may not have any idea. So if the
enforcement, instead of as happened in my example, to give them a ticket, the
enforcement officer came to educate them as to this has come to our attention.
De Weerd: Mr. Nary, we are short on time.
Nary: Okay, but that is what I meant. An education purpose is fine. I just didn’t want it to
sound like we were trying to get it for one and use it for something else.
De Weerd: Mr. Mayor, I know this isn’t necessary for that permitting process, if
information can be used for the other departments to achieve the same goal, that is
great. If not, we will have to look at an additional step outside of this questionnaire for
business licenses type of program. So maybe you can have that type of discussion at a
department head meeting and see if this can achieve the results you wanted from the
business licenses. If not, we will have to look again at the business license.
Corrie: Yes we don’t want to have the survey and then have the code enforcement
officer out fining everyone – we don’t have the ordinance yet. I think the police know
what they want and the fire department knows what they are looking for. We can put
that in the ordinance and let the people know about it and they can get the business
license. Bill is right, we don’t want to have the ordinance officer go out because of this
survey.
Issue #8 Discussion concerning Residential Building Ordinance dealing with
Utility Billing Responsibility
De Weerd: Real quick , before we break, if you can, in ten words or less, summarize
the issue under eight? Is this a clean up item so we can tend to our utility billing and
tenant responsibilities?
Smith: Madam President, Mayor and Council, this relates to the residential rental billing
directive procedure that we have had in place as a policy. It is not in conformance with
our present ordinance. We wish to phase that policy out and this has been discussed at
a previous workshop. It was our understanding that the Council was in support of this,
so we would like to move forward with whatever is necessary in terms of public notice or
hearing, whatever we need to go through to phase this out and make the property
owner responsible for the payment of the utility bill.
De Weerd: I understand it is just an issue of updating some language in this ordinance
to allow this to happen? Is that correct?
Corrie: -- what you want in the ordinance. You said you want to have a tenant policy,
that the tenant would be charge of it –
Meridian City Council Regular Meeting
August 13, 2002
Page 28 of 30
Smith: I think the ordinance already says the property owner is responsible.
Bird: Right, we are not following the ordinance.
Smith: Based upon, I don’t know how many years ago, there was a request by
landlords to allow the tenants to pay those bills. We accommodated them for one
reason or another. Primarily it was people who lived out of state who had property here
they were renting is one example. I cant recite any other reasons right now. It was a
convenience that we provided to the landlord. We are continually being snakebit by that
convenience. So it is our proposal by the Water Department and MUBS, with Mayor
Corrie’s support – Councilman Nary suggested also, just go back to the ordinance. Say
this is the way it is by ordinance, so this is what we are going to do. But the issue was
raised by Bill Nichols that there are probably lease agreements out there that have this
provision written into the lease agreement that allows the tenant to pay so there may be
some time here. Or there needs to be some notice or public hearing scheduled for this
issue to be discussed and just drop it to go back to the ordinance. I don’t know what
those legal proceedings need to be, and that is why we brought this back to you and
say we need to get this put to bed and resolved. It has been bouncing along –
Corrie: We may need a public hearing to notify everyone.
Nichols: Madam President, Mayor and members of the Council, I don’t know that you
need a public hearing. It could be as simple as coming up with a letter that goes out to
all land lords with whom the city has these agreements, that says, effective such and
such a date, the city will be looking for you to pay this bill and not your tenant. If the
tenant brings in the check on the account, fine, but the bill is going to you. I think that
might be more effective. You can publish a notice that says we are going to do this and
maybe not get all the people affected, so we can send letters out to these people and
get those addresses out of our file, correct?
Bird: yes, you can notice them to the public and like Gary said, many are out of state
and they are not going to read it anyway. That is a good idea.
Nary: What I would suggest on top of that is just giving them whatever the cutoff date
is. I don’t know if you want to do a month or two months or three months. It doesn’t
matter. If there is some hardship – if they have a one year lease they are locked into,
that they cant change, if they want to bring that forward, we can deal with those
individuals. Other than that, just give them a cutoff date.
Smith: We will proceed along those lines then. Do you want us to run that letter along
Mr. Nichols then?
Bird: yes.
De Weerd: That would be good.
Smith: And the cut off date? 30 days? 60 days?
Meridian City Council Regular Meeting
August 13, 2002
Page 29 of 30
Nary: I say at least 60 days because they have to give their tenants notice of at least 30
days, give them at least 60 or give them 90. if there is a hardship that they can
articulate, then they can come back to you with that hardship.
De Weerd: Well, before we adjourn, we rarely have guests. Do you have anything you
would like – no? Well thank you for coming. I would entertain a motion to adjourn.
Nichols: Madam President, are you going to adjourn or recess this meeting to take up
the Executive Session?
De Weerd: We recessed the other.
Bird: Gary had something more.
Nary: Do you have anything on item nine?
Smith: Madam President, I just have a handout. This is a draft and I would underscore
the word draft. It is a proposal from Public Works Department engineering on
assessment and system development fees for sewer and water. There are some, Brad
drafted this up and then left town – so here I am. He put a lot of work in this. It is a
draft, there are some discrepancies in numbers I noticed, but I think the philosophy is
what is important. There is a proposal for a change in our assessment fees for sewer
and water connections. Part of it is a proposal for system development fees, which
would in effect, replace the latecomer fee system we have now. So I would like to have
you take this and scan through it. But there are again, some discrepancies from one
page to another, but I think that the importance here is to validate the philosophy for the
system improvement fees. I also wanted to make a comment from what Brad has said
here, that we spend 12 million dollars in water and sewer improvements since 1996 to
meet our growth. We are going to spend another 20 to 25 million in water supply,
storage, distribution and treatment by 2020 to meet our projected demands. So we
have grown an average of nine percent in six years, 36 percent overall. There has been
a tremendous growth as you are all aware of. Dollars are associated with this growth
and sewer and water, is not an inexpensive measure.
Issue #9 Discussion of Legal Services RFP
Nary: On the RFP, I sent out a draft. If you have anything to add or change, I would like
to get it to Will by tomorrow to get it published. There is a approximately 30 day time
frame to turn around get good information back. So if there is anything you want to add
or delete –
Bird: I thought they look very good – they asked for everything that we had asked.
Nary: Chief Worley worked on the criminal one and if there is something you wanted to
give me, I will get it to Will tomorrow.
De Weerd: I would entertain a motion to adjourn.
Meridian City Council Regular Meeting
August 13, 2002
Page 30 of 30
Bird: So moved.
Nary: Second.
De Weerd: Motion carried. Meeting adjourned at 8:45 p.m.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
APPROVED:
/ /
ROBERT D. CORRIE, MAYOR DATE
ATTESTED:
WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., CITY CLERK