Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAbout2001 10-16 CITY OF MERIDIAN CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING AGENDA Tuesday, October 16, 2001, at 6:30 p.m. City Council Chambers 1. Roll-call Attendance: x X Tammy de Weerd 0 Cherie McCandless X X Mayor Robert Corrie Ron Anderson Keith Bird 2. Adoption of the Agenda: Approve as Modified 3. Consent Agenda: A. Approve minutes of September 11, 2001 City Council Workshop: Approve B. Approve minutes of September 25, 2001 City Council Regular Meeting: Approve C. Approve minutes of October 2, 2001 City Council Special Meeting: Approve D. Approve minutes of October 5, 2001 City Council Special Meeting: Approve E. Meridian School Resource Officer Agreement: Table until November 7,2001 5-F. Tabled from October 2, 2001: Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law for Approval: AZ 01-011 Request for annexation and zoning of 9.79 acres from RUT to C-G zones for Franklin Mini Storage by Ron Osborne - 1975 East Franklin Road: Approve 5-G. Tabled from October 2, 2001: Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP 01-024 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for the construction of a storage unit on 9.79 acres with one office/commercial pad for Franklin Mini Meridian City Council Agenda - October 16, 2001 Page 1 of 1 All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian. Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearings please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting. Storage by Ron Osborne - 1975 East Franklin Road: Table until November 7, 2001 H. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: AZ 01- 010 Request for annexation and zoning from R 1 to C-G zones for Podiatry Building by Smith Brighton, LLC - 1065 East Fairview Avenue: Table until November 7,2001 5-1. Findings of Facts and Conclusions of law for Approval: CUP 01-015 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a Planned Unit Development for mixed use Residential/Commercial in proposed C- G and R-40 zones for proposed Baltic Place Subdivision by L.C. Development, Inc. - Franklin Road west of Locust Grove Road: Approve J. Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law for Approval: PFP 01-004 Request for Preliminary/Final Plat approval of 3 building lots on 2.85 acres in an L-O zone for proposed Treasure View Subdivision by Pinnacle Engineers, Inc. - 3500 East Magic View Drive (southeast of East Magic View Drive and South Allen Street): Approve K. Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law for Approval: PFP 01-003 Request for Preliminary/Final Plat approval of 2 building lots on 4.04 acres in an I-L zone for proposed Heartwood Subdivision by Pinnacle Engineers, Inc. - northwest corner of West Franklin Road and North 10th Street: Approve L. Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law for Approval: AZ 01- 013 Request for annexation and zoning of 4.24 acres from M-1 to [.L zones for Coors Distributing by Coors Distributing Co. - 3225 Commercial Court: Approve M. Development Agreement with R. C. Willey: Approve 4. Department Reports A. Public Work's Department - Gary Smith: 1 . Waterline Easement - KD Roofing Project: Approve 2. Vienna Woods Subdivision Sewer Latecomers Agreement with Peterson's: Approve 3. Landing Subdivision No.7 Sewer Latecomers Agreement: Table until October 23, 2001 Meridian City Council Agenda - October 16, 2001 Page 2 of 2 All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian. Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearings please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting. 4. Landing Subdivision No. 7 Water Latecomers Agreement: Table until October 23, 2001 5. Well No. 23 Pumping Facilities - Agreement for Professional Services: Table until October 23, 2001 B. Mayor Corrie: 1. Urban Renewal Committee Appointment: Approve Linda Rupe for three year term 2. Appointment of alternates for VIA Trans Board: Approve David and Brad Hawkins-Clark 5. (Items Moved from Consent Agenda) 6. Continued Public Hearing from October 2, 2001: CUP 01-026 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for the addition of a Drive-up window and Drive-Thru lane in a C-G zone for Moxie Java by Avest Limited Partnership clo Dakota Company - North Locust Grove Road and East Loop Lane: Approve denial of CUP 7. Public Hearing: CUP 01-021 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a dual restaurant with drive-thru in a C-G zone for Kentucky Fried Chicken/A&W by G & H Enterprises II - 677 East First Street: Continue Public Hearing to November 7,2001 8. Discussion of Ada County Development Services Project for Keltic Heights -1,451 units on 383.81 acres: Discussed 9. Agreement for the Reappointment of City Attorney, the Provision of Legal Services and for Payment of Attorney Fees and Costs: Approve Meridian City Council Agenda - October 16. 2001 Page 3 of 3 All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian. Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearings please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting. Meridian City Council Meeting October 16, 2001 The regularly scheduled meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:30 P,M. on Tuesday October 16,2001 by Mayor Robert D. Corrie. Members Present: Mayor Robert Corrie, Tammy de Weerd, Keith Bird, and Cherie McCandless. Members Absent: Ron Anderson. Others Present: Bill Nichols, Mike Worley, Shari Stiles, Gary Smith, Brad Watson, Ken Bowers, and Will Berg. Corrie: All right. We want to welcome everybody here tonight. It looks like we have high school kids. Which class is this? Meridian High School. American government. Great. Maybe you can teach us something. Okay. With that I will open the regular City Council meeting, Tuesday, October 16th, 6:30 P,M., and we will have role call attendance by the City Clerk, please. Item 1. Roll-call Attendance: _X_ Tammy de Weerd _0_ Ron Anderson _X_ Cherie McCandless _X_ Keith Bird _X_ Mayor Robert Corrie Item 2. Adoption of the Agenda: Item 3. Consent Agenda: A. Approve minutes of September 11, 2001, City Council Workshop. B. Approve Minutes of September 25, 2001, City Council Regular Meeting. C. Approve Minutes of October 2, 2001, City Council Special Meeting. D. Approve Minutes of October 5, 2001, City Council Special Meeting. E. Meridian School Resource Officer Agreement. F. Tabled from October 2, 2001: Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law for Approval: AZ 01-011 Req uest for annexation and zoning of 9.79 acres from RUT to C-G zones for Meridian City Council Regular Meellng October 16, 2001 Page 2 Franklin Mini Storage by Ron Osborne - 1975 East Franklin Road. G. Tabled from October 2, 2001: Findings of Facts and Conclusion of law for Approval: CUP 01~024 Request for a Condition Use Permit for the construction of a storage unit on 9.79 acres with one office/commercial pad for Franklin Mini Storage by Ron Osborne - 1975 East Franklin Road. H. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: AZ 01-010 Request for annexation and zoning from R1 to C-G zones for Podiatry Building by Smith Brighton, LLC - 1065 East Fairview Avenue. . I. Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP 01-015 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a Planned Unit Development for mixed use Residential/Commercial in proposed C-G and R-40 zones for proposed Baltic Place Subdivision by L.C. Development, Inc. - Franklin Road west of Locust Grove Road. J. Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law for Approval: PFP 01-004 Request for Preliminary/Final Plat approval of three building lots on 2.85 acres in an L-O zone for proposed Treasure View Subdivision by Pinnacle Engineers, Inc. - 3500 East Magic View Drive (southeast of East Magic View Drive and South Allen Street). K. Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law for Approval: PFP 01-003 Request for Preliminary/Final Plat approval of two building lots on 4.04 acres in an I-L zone for proposed Heartwood Subdivision by Pinnacle Engineers, Inc. - northwest corner of West Franklin Road and North 10th Street. L. Findings of Facts and Conclusions of law for Approval: AZ 01-013 Request for annexation and zoning of 4.24 acres from M-1 to I-L zones for Coors Distributing by Coors Distributing Co. - 3225 Commercial Court. M. Development Agreement with R.C. Willey. Corrie: Okay. Item NO.2 is Adoption of the Agenda. Council, any changes? Bird: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Bird. Meridian City Council Regular Meellng October 16, 2001 Page 3 Bird: Under our Consent Agenda, Item E, the Meridian School Resource Officer Agreement, Chief Worley would like that pulled off the agenda until him and the school can get together and go over it, so we will pull that. Corrie: Chief, do you have a date that you want that- Bird: Do you want-when that comes back? Worley: Mayor and Council, two weeks would be fine. Corrie: Two weeks? Bird: November yth? Okay. Pull that to November yth. Items F and G have been requested to be pulled off the consent agenda and moved to Items 5-F and 5-G. Item H we do not have the findings, because the attorney is waiting for the legal descriptions, so we will-J would recommend that we take that and table that until November 7,2001, too. And item I needs to be taken off and made 5-1 onto the regular agenda. And also on the regular agenda Item No.7 has been-we do not have any ACHD findings or anything, so we'd like to table that to November 7,2001. Corrie: We will open the public hearing and we will do that. Bird: Okay. And then Item NO.1 0 we are a week early on the water and sewer and trash. That was my fault. Corrie: Okay. All right. Any other corrections from Council? De Weerd: No. Corrie: Okay. Then I will move to adopt the agenda as-okay. Would you come up here, please? I need to find out what's going on here for a minute. Gibbs: I'm Jonathan Gibbs with G&H Enterprises and KFC and I don't think it's fair to table our thing because of ACHD. When I went and picked up my agenda they had attached Wendy's ACHD stuff to my agenda, instead of ours, and we have been through with ACHD for two months. So I can't believe there should be any problem with ACHD with KFC. Somebody screwed up and put Wendy's stuff on there. Corrie: Okay. Bird: Okay. We will open the public hearing, then, and go from there. Corrie: All right. Bird: Mr. Mayor. Meridian City Council Regular Meellng October 16, 2001 Page 4 Corrie: Yes. Bird: I move that we approve the adoption of the agenda and also that we approve the consent agenda as stated earlier. Corrie: All right. Motion has been made to adopt the approved agenda as admitted and the consent agenda. McCandless: Second. Corrie: Okay. Roll call vote. Roll Call: Bird, aye; De Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Anderson, absent. Corrie: Okay. All ayes. Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT. Item 4. Department Reports. A. Public Work's Department ~ Gary Smith: 1. Waterline Easement - KD Roofing Project. Corrie: Department Reports. Public Works Department. Gary Smith. Smith: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Council Members. The first item is a Waterline Easement for KD Roofing Project. Their project is located on Overland Road. As my memo explains, it's a small easement that's necessary for the city to access fire hydrant and water meters for this building project. The easement document is attached with a legal description of the easement and then I believe there is also a small map showing the location of the easement graphically. Our recommendation to Council would be to permit-approve of this waterline easement to access fire hydrant and water meters located on private property of Kendall and Shelly Doty, authorize Mayor Corrie and City Clerk Berg to sign the document. Corrie: Okay. Council, questions? Bird: I have none. De Weerd: I have none. McCandless: None. Corrie: All right, then, J'II entertain a motion, then, on the request for -- excuse me-the Public Works Department. Meridian City Council Regular Meeting October 16, 2001 Page 5 Bird: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I would move we approve the easement to permit city access to the fire hydrants and water meters located on private property of Kendall and Shelly Doty and to authorize Mayor Corrie and City Clerk Berg to sign the easement and adopt the- McCandless: Second. Corrie: Motion has been made and seconded to approve the Waterline Easement for the KD Roofing Project. Further discussion? Hearing none, all in favor of the motion say aye. Any opposed? All ayes. Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT. 2. Five Mile Sewer Latecomer Agreement. Smith: Thank you, Mayor. Thank you, Council. The second item I have is a sewer latecomer's agreement for the developers of Vienna Woods Subdivision, which is to reimburse the developers for costs that they incurred in extending the sewer line to their subdivision. The sewer line will serve other property that's adjacent to it in a gravity manner. The agreement is attached to the transmitted letter. The developer has signed the agreement and it's presented to you this evening for your approval. So it would be Public Works' recommendation to approve of this sewer latecomers agreement to the developers of Vienna Woods Subdivision; for the Mayor to sign and the City Clerk to attest. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: Gary, do you have Tom Nichol's letter that we received today? Smith: No, I do not. De Weerd: Dated October 15th? Smith: No, I do not. De Weerd: Mr. Clerk, can you get Gary a copy so we can talk about that? Bird: You can take mine. De Weerd: Mr. Smith, do you know what that is regarding? Meridian City Council Regular MeeLIIlg October 16,2001 Page 6 Smith: Pardon me? De Weerd: Do you know what that's about? Smith: Well, Mr. Jewett owned some property at the southwest corner of-or the southwest corner of Chinden and Locust Grove and there is a portion of that property that's included in the service area for this sewer line. De Weerd: Does that have any effect on tonight's action? Smith: I can't see why it would. De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Bird: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Commissioner. Bird: Gary, are you in receipt of the letter that this same developer had requested sewer service from us? We received one I believe it was a week ago, ten days ago, requesting-to the Mayor requesting sewer service to their property out there by Vienna Woods? Smith: j believe j have seen that. Yes. Bird: And this is what this letter here is referring to; am I not right? Smith: Well, his letter-this land consultant letter is stating that a portion of Jim Jewett's property is included in the service area for this latecomer agreement, which is true. But I don't know how that ties together with his request for sewer service. I think they are two different subjects. Bird: I agree with you. Smith: Any other questions I can answer? Bird: I have none. Corrie: Any other questions from Council? Okay. Entertain a motion, then, on the request for the latecomer's agreement for Vienna Woods Subdivision. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. Meridian City Council Regular Mee'''lg October 16. 2001 Page 7 De Weerd: I move that we approve the sewer latecomers agreement with-in regards to Vienna Woods Subdivision with Martin Peterson and Dean H. Peterson Family Limited Partnership and to have the Mayor sign and Clerk attest. Bird: Second. Corrie: Okay. Motion made and seconded to approve Vienna Woods Subdivision sewer latecomers agreement. Further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion say aye? All ayes. Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT. 3. Landing Subdivision No. 7 Sewer Latecomers Agreement. 4. Landing Subdivision No. 7 Water Latecomers Agreement. 5. Well No. 23 Pumping Facilities - Agreement for Professional Services. Smith: Thank you, Mayor, and Council. The next item I have is another latecomer's agreement for the Landing Subdivision NO.7. It's a sewer latecomer's agreement. Landing Sub No. 7 is located on the east side of Linder Road south of Franklin. This subdivision has been completed for sometime. The latecomer's agreement for both the sewer and the water are before you this evening for approval. Again, it's an extension of sewer line that will serve more property than what the developer actually constructed and so they are requesting reimbursement for capacity of the sewer line beyond that which is needed by their subdivision. Bird: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I have got a question for Gary or the Clerk. I have not received-and not that I couldn't have misplaced it, but I have not received the sewer, water for the Landings, or Well 23 agreements. De Weerd: Neither have l. Corrie: None of us have. Bird: Have you got a copy of it, Mr. Clerk? Meridian City Council Regular Meeullg October 16, 2001 Page 8 Berg: Mr. Mayor and Council, not in my packet, so I don't know if we received it, unless Brad could tell me yes. He didn't get it in the packet or else it got distributed and not attached to this final sheet. Smith: Well, Mr. Mayor and Council, if you don't have them, then I would just suggest that we table these items until following Council meeting. Bird: Is that going to be okay, Gary? Smith: Sure. Bird: It's not going to affect anything? Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I would move, then, that we table items three, four, and five under 4-A, the Landing Subdivision No.7 sewer latecomers agreement and Landing Subdivision No.7 water latecomers agreement and Well No. 23 pumping facilities - Agreement for Professional Services until October 23, 2001. De Weerd: Second. Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded to table items three, four, and five in the Department Reports of the Public Works until the October 23rd meeting. Further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion say aye. All ayes. Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT. Smith: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, and Council. I apologize for not having that info to you. Corrie: Thank you. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: It looks like this might be a short meeting, so I could also provide a lecture for our high school students. B. Mayor Corrie: 1. Appointment to Downtown Re-Development or Urban Renewal. Meridian City Council Regular Meeting October 16, 2001 Page 9 Corrie: Council-you guys you want to leave early. Okay. Next item on the agenda is myself; see if I'm prepared for this. Urban Renewal-a person for the Urban Renewal Board, an appointment, and I would like to appoint-have you got that? Okay. That's why. You have got it and I don't have it. Bird: Here. Corrie: All right. I would like to appoint Linda Rupe to the Downtown Urban Renewal Board as the seventh member of the board. Bird: What is her term there? Corrie: The term will be- Bird: Is it two or three years? Corrie: It's three years, I think. Bird: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I would move that we confirm your appointment is of Linda Rupe to a three-year appointment, if that's what the appointments for, to the Downtown Urban Renewal Board. McCandless: Second. Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made to approve Linda Rupe as the seventh member of the Urban Renewal Board. Any further discussion? All those in favor of the motion say aye. All ayes. Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT. Corrie: Linda, are you here tonight? De Weerd: No. She's out of town. 2. Appointment of alternates for VIA Trans Board. Corrie: She's out of town. Okay. Asked her if she could make it, but-all right. The other is appointment of alternates to the VIA Trans Board. The request-I would like to add as alternates to that board-Shari, what did we do with that piece of paper that you had? Okay. The two alternates would be David Zarumba and Brad Hawkins-Clark to be added and then the-Mr. Attorney, we will give you the form to make out the resolution , Meridian City Council Regular MeeL" Ig October 16, 2001 Page 10 or that, too, then. So with that I would ask Council to approve the alternates to that board. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Bird: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I move we approve the alternates for VIA Tran's Board as David Zarumba and Brad Hawkins-Clark as alternative. Bird: Second. Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded to approve the two alternates to the VIA Trans Board. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion say aye. All ayes. Motion carried. Thank you. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT. Item 5. (Items moved from Consent Agenda) F. Tabled from October 2, 2001: Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law for Approval: AZ 01-011 Request for annexation and zoning of 9.79 acres from RUT to C-G zones for Franklin Mini Storage by Ron Osborne - 1975 East Franklin Road. G. Tabled from October 2, 2001: Findings of Facts and Conclusion of Law for Approval: CUP 01-024 Request for a Condition Use Permit for the construction of a storage unit on 9.79 acres with one officelcommercial pad for Franklin Mini Storage by Ron Osborne - 1975 East Franklin Road. Corrie: All right. Items moved from the Consent Agenda. We have items F and G. The first one we will take up is F. This is the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval, request for annexation and zoning of 9.79 acres from RUT to C-G zones for Franklin Mini Storage. At this time, staff, do you have any-Mr. Bird, do you have- Bird: Well, we have a letter here that-asking that they have some-on Item G, the Finding of Fact No. 46 regarding- De Weerd: Maximum building height. Bird: Yes. Maximum building height. It should have Exhibit A removed, it says. Mr. Nichols, do you- Nichols: Mr. Mayor. Meridian City Council Regular Meeting October 16, 2001 Page 11 Corrie: Mr. Nichols. Nichols: Perhaps we can shortcut this a little bit. Shari, have you seen this position statement from Mr. Brown? Stiles: Yes. I received it tonight. Nichols: Have you had a chance to review that? Stiles: I just looked over it. It doesn't appear that there is anything out of the ordinary, but I haven't referred back to the findings on it. Bird: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: This is one of the other things that we-that causes a lot of confusion is the fact that we get this request on the day of the meeting. We have had no chance to review it, neither the staff, nor any of us. I would like to ask, if the applicant is here, when he got his Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law from the City. Corrie: Mr. Brown. Bird: Mr. Brown. Brown: We got it just before our last meeting two weeks ago and then I got just the other day or Monday I got a copy of the proposed development agreement and I wanted to look at it before I could generate this letter and so then I went through that and the purpose of this is just to make it easier for staff and myself as we comply with these conditions. That's the only intent in the four changes, other than we had made a request during the hearing not to have landscaping behind the Osborne home put in, in the initial phase and so, therefore, we just asked for a clarification. In none of the hearings-we had two hearings before P&Z and the one hearing with the City Council and there was never any opposition to that request. It's just kind of a convenience on their part to not have that until it develops in the future with phase two. Bird: The only problem we have in getting it at this late a date- Brown: I understand. Bird: -- we have had no way to review it. And then, you know, we have got to sit here and go and try to digest this while the actual event is going on and it's not really fair to the client, it's not fair to staff, and you have had the Findings of Facts for a couple of weeks- Meridian City Council Regular Meellrlg October 16, 2001 Page 12 Brown: Yes. Bird: -- and you went over this- Brown: Correct. Bird: -- and we couldn't have responded last week on the Findings of Facts, regardless of the development agreement? Because your opposition seems to be mostly in the Findings of Facts. Brown: On the Conditional Use. It has nothing to do with the annexation. Bird: I realize that. I realize that. Brown: And, realistically, we could live with everything, other than we are asking just to clarify, so that staff would be aware, whether there is a real need for the landscaping behind. I mean, realistically, I think that even if you didn't change the wording we could get through it. I feel that my wording is a little easier to understand, especially when you tie that with the development agreement, that first one, to remove Exhibit A. Well, Exhibit A is-when these Findings become a part of the development agreement, it makes references to an Exhibit A also, but it happens to be a metes and bounds description of the property that's being annexed. So my intent was not to make it more confusing, but just make it easier to understand. I mean if you look at the Exhibit A, then you're going to be looking at a metes and bound description and going how does that have anything to do with the building height, so-but do I think I can work that out with staff? Yes. I mean if- Bird: The problem is what we pass on tonight is the deal here and for us to go back and say this was what was and wasn't meant, we have to go back and look through the minutes and see if that's how the motion's stated, if that was what the public testimony was, what the Council had been in a motion, we need to do the deal. I have no problem we can't work it out. Brown: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Bird, it was what the motion was. The staff passed on what was there. There wasn't any problem with the way the Findings and the way that they were originally drafted; it just had to do with the confusion. The only part that we initially-I guess the reason I went and made those changes is because we did want to talk about-there was never anything that was discussed about we made a request to not have landscaping behind the Osbornes, there was never anything really finalized on that. Since we were going to interrupt this meeting anyway to take it off the consent agenda, my intent was-is to try to clarify two or three of those -- I mean we have got 68 findings, you know, and there is like ten of them that refer to fencing and if you read each one of them you almost-you need a jigsaw puzzle to go, okay, this one says this, now what-how does that go in comparison with Finding 68, also finding-I mean so you just-my intent was to make it easier. But if you don't want to do that, then the only Meridian City Council Regular Meeting October 16, 2001 Page 13 thing that we are interested in is if you were opposed to the request that we originally made about putting landscaping behind the Osborne's house. Bird: I'm sure that that was-Mr. Brown, I agree with you a hundred percent, but the problem is we have not had a chance to look at your deals and we have not had a chance to go back and look at our deals. This time-this time we give you plenty of time with your Findings of Facts and Conclusions-we got them to you in a timely manner and then we don't get this until tonight is the thing that I -- Brown: And I understand. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Maybe we should just go ahead and act on annexation and zoning and table this, so that you can get with staff to clarify some language and we can have it back on the agenda and maybe if in our next package we can have the minutes that went along with the motion, so that we have a chance to review that. Is that okay with the applicant? Brown: I don't see any problem. De Weerd: Okay. Bird: Let's do that. Corrie: Okay. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I move that we approve the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision of Order for the request for annexation and zoning of 9.79 acres from RUT to C-G zones for Franklin Mini Storage and to have the Mayor sign and the Clerk attest. McCandless: Second. Corrie: Motion made and seconded to approve the request for annexation, Item 3-F. Further discussion? Hearing none, roll call vote, Mr. Berg. Roll-Call: Bird, aye; De Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Anderson, absent. Corrie: All ayes. Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT. G. Tabled from October 2, 2001: Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP 01-024 Request for a Meridian City Council Regular MeetIng October 16, 2001 Page 14 Conditional User Permit for the construction of a storage unit on 9.79 Cares with one office/commercial pad for Franklin Mini Storage by Ron Osborne - 1975 East Franklin Road. Corrie: Item G, then, from that-we wanted to table that discussion to what meeting? Bird: Go ahead. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I move that we table the Findings for a Conditional Use Permit for Franklin Mini Storage to November 7,2001. Bird: Second. Corrie: Okay. Motion made and seconded to table the request for Conditional Use Permit on Item 3-G to November the 7, 2001. Any further discussion? All those in favor of the motion say aye. All ayes. Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT. I. Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP 01-015 Request for a Conditional User Permit for a Planned Unit development for mixed use ResidentiallCommercial in proposed C-G and R-40 zones for proposed Baltic Place Subdivision by L.C. Development, Jnc. - Franklin Road west of Locust Grove Road. Corrie: J believe we have got three-or 5-1. This is a request for a Conditional User Permit for a planned unit development and mixed-use residential/commercial in a proposed C-G and R-40 zone for proposed Baltic Place Subdivision. Oh, there you are. Okay. Would you like to come up? We will have you questioned here. Center: Lee Centers. 325 Meridian Street. Corrie: Okay. You were wanting some clarification, I believe, on yours; is that correct? Centers: Yes. Corrie: Okay. Centers: Okay. We did meet with ACHD on a temporary sidewalk. They didn't have a problem with it. We can extend the shoulder over. We can get about five or six feet, actually, and then put up-on the fog line we can put up an extruded curb and paint it, Meridian City Council Regular Meeting October 16, 2001 Page 15 so that no one would drift over into that area. I just wanted to clarify that. There are power poles and irrigation boxes, grades, and some other things that would be in the way of it going any farther. Corrie: I believe that was-item 25 is a five foot temporary sidewalk. Centers: Yes. Yes. Corrie: And you're wanting to know if it's okay if you just do it where you- Centers: Yes. There is actually one like that out on Ten Mile that's been approved that way. Corrie: Okay. Council, do you have any problem with that? De Weerd: No. Bird: No. McCandless: No. Corrie: Okay. That's fine. So we will just go ahead approve your Findings of Facts and a request for a Conditional Use Permit. Centers: Okay. Thank you. De Weerd: Thanks, Lee. Corrie: Thank you, Lee. Okay. I'll entertain a motion, then, on Item I, Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law for CUP 01-015. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I move we approve the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision of Order for the request for a Conditional Use Permit for a planned unit development for a mixed use by the proposed Baltic Place Subdivision and have the Mayor sign and the Clerk attest. Bird: Second. Corrie: Motion made and seconded to approve the CUP 01-015, Baltic Place Subdivision. Any further discussion? Hearing none, Mr. Clerk, roll call vote, please. Roll-Call: Bird, aye; De Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Anderson, absent. Meridian City Council Regular MeetIng October 16, 2001 Page 16 Corrie: Okay. All ayes. Motion has been approved. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT. Item 6. Continued Public Hearing from October 2, 2001: Public Hearing: CUP 01-026 Request for a Conditional User Permit for the addition of a Drive-up window and Drive- Thru lane in a C-G zone for Moxie Java by Avest Limited Partnership clo Dakota Company - North Locust Grove Road and East Loop Lane: Corrie: Item NO.6 is a continued public hearing from October 2, 2001. This is a request for a Conditional Use Permit for the addition of a drive-up window and a drive-thru lane in a C-G zone for Moxie Java by Avest Limited Partnership, Dakota Company. So at this time I will continue the public hearing and staff comments, kind of bring us up to date on this, please. Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, this is for an application we have previously seen. It was originally brought before the Council before the building was built. There was a request at that time to have two drive-thrus for the TCBY and another drive-thru and that was denied, mostly because of the impact on the adjacent residential uses across Locust Grove. The current proposal is basically identical, as far as I can tell, from the previous application. They would propose to have the north-south access, two-way traffic, then they would have-apparently the traffic would access across the lane of travel and go in here. I'm not quite sure of whether-how these signs work in. They have got a sign shown here that says right turn only and a sign here that says do not enter. I'm not sure, really, the purpose of those or how it exists today, but I would like clarification from the applicant on what-the purpose of those, but we still feel that it's a safety hazard and the Planning and Zoning Commission recommended and staff concurred that the application should be denied. Corrie: Okay. Any questions of staff at this point? Bird: I have none. Corrie: Okay. Mr. Durkin. Durkin: My name is Larry Durkin. My address is 380 East Park Center Boulevard in Boise, and I'm here tonight on behalf of Avest Property Management. I know J have my work cut out for me on this request. It has been before you before and it was denied before. I would like to clarify the record, though. As you know, I'm the developer of this project and I took the original property through the annexation process, comprehensive planning process, all of the approvals when all of the buildings were built and while we did discuss with staff at that time the idea of putting a drive-thru on the east end of the building, we never applied for it, we never had a hearing on it, and it was not denied. The application was made later after the building was built. The application was approved by the Planning and Zoning Commission and denied by Council. At that time ( Meridian City Council Regular Meeung October 16, 2001 Page 17 Rob Haggett asked for a motion to reconsider and that was denied. So, technically, it has been in front of you twice, once on a regular application and once on a motion to reconsider. So you might be wondering why I'm up here trying this again. And I will go through my comments here and maybe you will see. This request is consistent with all of the ACHD requirements. This request is consistent with all of the Meridian ordinances. This request is consistent with the current comprehensive plan and the latest draft of the newest comprehensive plan. As you know, this center was designed and built in the early and mid '90s. It was the closest center of the City site that was available at that time. While it does include a large Fred Meyer store, the site, as you know, is geared to neighborhood uses, with local uses like a bank, sandwich shop, dry cleaners, grocery uses, beauty salon, Christian movie rental. We are required to go through the conditional use process for a drive-thru in the City of Meridian, yet it seems to me that the City has applied a higher standard, because this is a larger center. A couple of examples I'll give you. There is a Walgreen's across the street. Walgreen's was approved and built within the last year. There is a drive-thru there. It was approved. The access and the use for that drive-thru goes right through the parking. It probably has a similar amount of travel as the application that we are making. There was no comment, question, criticism, or concern about any safety matters at that time, yet it's built on a very busy intersection. And I think they would be valid questions. There is a Kentucky Fried Chicken, there is an Arby's, and there is a Dairy Queen in Meridian. All of them have a similar drive-thru configuration with the same hazards that were brought up at the last hearing. Intermountain Arms is right across the street. Good place. I go there all the time. When I do, I go to that kiosk which sits in the middle of the parking lot. It doesn't have any striped parking or driving arrangement whatsoever. It is-it's a kiosk. It doesn't serve a real neighbor use. These are just to name a few. A denial tonight will result in our tenant relocating to a space that will not have the neighborhood features that we are talking about. It will not have parking in front, it will not have outside seating, and it won't have a 1,500 square foot area inside for people to gather. I'd kind of like to go off subject just for a moment. As you know, I have supported the comprehensive plan-new plan that's in front of the City. I have testified at each public hearing about that plan. I've attended many workshops-every one, I believe. My peers criticize me for my support of the mixed use zoning in that comp plan, because it will require a planned unit development and a Conditional Use Permit for each use. They claim the Conditional Use Permit or planned unit development will allow the City to add conditions that are outside of the ordinances or the plan and they also claim that these-this language will not allow changes over time. As you know, it's been in the paper that I have supported the neighborhood center concept. Well, my telephone rings off the hook from other developers saying that this change will preclude just the type of request that I'm making tonight. I tell my colleagues that responsible development will always be allowed and encouraged in the City of Meridian. What we have developed in this shopping center is responsible development. What we are proposing tonight is responsible development. The landscaping, the walkways, the design of each building, including this request, are well within the guidelines of existing plans and ordinances in the City of Meridian. ACHD is in full support. The other tenants in the center are in full support. To date there has been no opposition from the public at any meeting on this subject. Centers must change over time or they die. Tenants must change over time or Meridian City Council Regular Meeting October 16, 2001 Page 18 they go out of the business. When this center was built, believe it or not, there was one drive-thru coffee shop in the entire Treasure Valley and now there are many, including in Meridian. We make changes to this center all the time. This particular change requires your approval. We continually upgrade the landscaping, the lighting, the striping, the traffic patterns in the center and we have a solid reputation with this group for making changes at either your request, staffs request, or the public's request. If I cannot provide a drive-thru, this tenant will leave and a valuable, quality neighborhood use will move to a higher volume location without a neighborhood flavor. They'll move to a kiosk without parking. They'll move to a kiosk with the same dangers that were discussed at the Planning and Zoning and I think that there will be a loss for all in Meridian. We respectfully request your approval and I will happily answer any questions that you may have. Corrie: I have got one. Larry, I think you did an eloquent job tonight. However, you didn't answer the question what's changed since we denied it before. Durkin: A couple of-our applications-there hasn't be a significant change to our application since you denied it before. But, Mayor, it's a really good question to ask me. In the previous hearing-and I have only read the minutes, I wasn't here. There was an awful lot of discussion about the proximity of the drive-thru access onto the road to the north of this building and I don't believe that the staff-in fact, I'm certain that the staff- and I don't believe that you were aware this is a private road. This is a loop road. It's owned by the developer. It's controlled by the developer. It's maintained by the developer and the safety and the manner in which it's accessed, ingress and egress from this center and from the center across the street, is completely under the control of the center. There was a lot of discussion about-that this is too close to the street, when, in fact, the street that we have to focus on is Locust Grove. There is a very limited amount of traffic -- and I really believe that if you had that information at the time that that would not have been an issue. There is a very limited amount of traffic on the Loop Road. There is a great deal amount of traffic on Locust Grove. But the proximity here to the great deal of amount of traffic is a substantial distance, as well as far in excess of the guidelines that Ada County Highway District would impose. I think another change in what you looked at before is the manner in which we're signing the area and protecting it to satisfy some concerns that were addressed here. As you know, there is a drive-thru now for the TCBY on the west-get my directions-on the west end of the building. We can certainly punch a driveway through closer to Locust Grove and still be well within the guidelines of the development-of the Ada County Highway District's criteria. But we think that this is the right way to do it. TCBY's traffic is evening traffic. Moxie Java traffic is morning traffic. It couldn't be a better circumstance. You know, there is another building in this center with two drive-thrus, the Subway building, which includes a drive-thru for Subway, and a drive-thru for the cleaners. They operate, again, on different times and different hours. To my knowledge we have asked, we have checked. there hasn't been any accidents, injuries at any drive-thru in the City of Meridian. It's not an issue. It's a concern I think you have to be careful of, but we are responsible. We are a responsible development company. Our client Avest are the builders, owners of this project. and they have a solid reputation of being safe and Meridian City Council Regular Meeung October 16, 2001 Page 19 sound and I think the concerns that were addressed at City Council didn't take that into consideration and so that's what I'm asking you to take into consideration tonight. Bird: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: Larry, the traffic flow is going to go south to north for the Moxie Java? Durkin: Correct. Bird: And then you have got the TCBY coming from the east and then down to the south; right? Durkin: Yes. Shari, could you put your cursor up just east of that where -- keep going around the corner. Keep going. Keep going. Keep going. Keep going. Okay. Now go north. That's where the traffic now comes in for TCBY. They come in there and they turn and go along the side of the building. Bird: And that's on that Loop Road? Durkin: That's on that private drive. I want you to know, Councilman Bird, that there is only one access point on the entire north side of that road and that's at the opposite end of the Fred Meyer building for that storage facility and it's the same ownership that owns everything else. So the changes we have added to that drive, so when you come through the Moxie Java drive-thru you will just-you will go straight out. But the TCBY people can't access there, they have to access on the existing driveway to the east. Right there. So there shouldn't be any conflict with people coming in and out of that driveway. It will be signed and maintained by the developer. Bird: I believe the one you stated, the Subway and the cleaners down there, is the- they are not by the Loop Road, I don't-go north of them and they do flow in a circle pattern, don't they? They come in from the south and in the north? Durkin: They are more straight, but they do-they do interact with drive lanes within the center and, you know, in a practical sense the drive lanes in the center carry an awful lot more traffic than this Loop Road. There is a higher probability for conflict and that's management controlled with lighting, landscaping, and striping by us. There would be less conflict here than at any other intersection in the entire-within the entire shopping center development. For example, where the McDonald's drive-thru comes out on that main drive and then you turn and go onto Fairview, there hasn't been any accidents here. There hasn't been any injuries there. You guys don't like it. I'm not real keen on it, but it's working. It's a successful component to this center. This is significantly less of a- Meridian City Council Regular Meellng October 16, 2001 Page 20 Bird: Larry, let me-where is the actual window going to be? Right where the circle is there? Durkin: Yes. Right there. Bird: So is there any way that-and I was probably the least one concerned about this drive-thru when it come before us. Is there any way that we could put some kind of a piling or something there to not let that traffic go up and through or is that going to make too big of a bottle jam? Right there on the northeast corner of the-so that a car coming through and-you don't have an intersection is what I'm saying. Is there any way to do that and make sense? Durkin: It's really difficult, Councilman Bird. It's-you know, I would like to say, sure, we can work on something like that, but- Bird: That's not practical. Durkin: Well, it isn't a cost issue. You know, when you build buildings with the best knowledge and information you have at the time and then a change is required, this is a-what we are trying to do is have a straight right angle interaction that people are more familiar with, than having some kind of a curving action that you're not familiar with it. You know, we will go to the grocery store and we drive along the road in front of the grocery store and we are used to that and we are used to people coming out with shopping carts and we are careful and this is a traffic situation that people are used to and we think it's safer to do it this way. Bird: They will actually-to your benefit there will be no blind corners where traffic-no traffic will be coming from the west to the east on the north side of there; right? Durkin: That's correct. The traffic-I might just do a- Bird: Because the traffic of TCBY is coming from the east to the west and down south. Durkin: The traffic right now for TCBY will come in about 70 feet west-right about there, Shari. That's where it comes in now. And that will come in and turn and go along the back of the building, exactly what it's doing right now. Bird: Where does- De Weerd: So they come from the Loop Road? Durkin: They come from the Loop Road or they can go up that drive lane and turn left, but there will be a normal interaction with the cars that would be leaving TCBY-or Moxie Java, they would have a very normal interaction like you would have in your residential subdivision and an intersection or at any other intersection within this development. Meridian City Council Regular MeetIng October 16, 2001 Page 21 Bird: Where will the TCBY cars go? Will they be able to go on north and get on the Loop Road? Durkin: They go around- De Weerd: They go around through there? Durkin: That's where the TCBY window is and they come out- De Weerd: They come out there? Bird: No. No. I mean the Moxie Java. Durkin: They go straight out onto Loop Road. That's the only- Bird: They can get onto Loop Road? Durkin: They have to. Bird: Oh, not up on the Loop Road? Durkin: They go straight. Bird: They go north? Durkin: They go due north. Bird: Right up there. Durkin: They get their coffee and they go right there. Bird: Okay. Larry, what's going to-your way the people come in from the Loop Road and then drop down at the-where that letter is up there, down and then come into TCBY. What's going to stop them from coming in at the same place as the Moxie Java people that are leaving? Durkin: Well, Councilman Bird, they will have a-there will be an interaction there. We can control it in many different ways. We can do speed bumps. We can do signs. We can do stripes. We can do a lot of different things. The fact is they will be going five miles an hour, there is a caution, it's the kind of thing that you face every time you go to Albertson's and drive down a row, there isn't a place to park and you turn into the next row to find a place to park. You're getting-you're interacting with people backing out of stalls and it's a normal kind of interaction that people deal with. We've had Adobe Engineering work at it. They are-they have no concern, because their desire was- from an engineer standpoint was to keep it normal, not to do anything unusual, you Meridian City Council Regular Meeung October 16, 2001 Page 22 know, to swing it out, give it some kind of a curvature. But there will be-we can put stop signs there. We can do a lot of different things. If you go downtown Boise and pull out of one of the garages, you know, there are buzzers and bells and flashing lights, so you don't drive over a pedestrian. But these are things that we face everyday and we are not in a situation where we are dealing with 800, 900 cars a day, we are dealing with very few and, fortunately, the timing of when TCBY-or when Moxie Java does most of their business, TCBY isn't open, and when TCBY does most of their business Moxie Java-it's a gathering place at that hour, but it isn't a drive-thru type of place. And I think it's important for you to know we had a petition from Moxie Java that was submitted in the record last time from 140 people that frequent the place that are su pportive of this. But, you know, the only d rive-th ru coffee place when we designed the center was at the corner of Vista and Overland in a former seafood Alaska fish place. Do you know where I mean? Over by the Vista Village Shopping Center in east Boise. And I was intimately involved in the design and thought that it would have a future, there was not a lot of other people at that time that did it. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: Mr. Durkin, I appreciate your lecture for the kids here tonight. You did a wonderful job. I do-I am curious, though. You had mentioned that you could do a new cut in there to go to TCBY, rather than bringing them back behind the building or to the north of the building. Where exactly were you referring? Or am I making something up? Durkin: We could do a lot of things. I have never come before this group and suggested anything that I didn't think was safe. There are other options that we can do that I think are less-that are not safe. De Weerd: Yes. But if you have Moxie Java going straight out north, you have TCBY customers going directly west, where-you know, if they are going in there at the same time they are going to intersect each other and- Bird: There is no blind corner. De Weerd: Well, you have up here on the Loop Road and floating around. Durkin: There is a significant-I can expound on that. There is a significant amount more traffic having that same kind of interaction here, here, here, everywhere throughout the center. You have the same thing here. That's a common-you can't make that go away. You can make it go away here by not approving this tonight, but you have that same exact interaction everywhere throughout the entire shopping center. There is a significantly greater number of cars dealing with that same kind of decision right here, right here, right here. They are dealing in straight angles. It is not-it is not an unsafe circumstance. I have asked the city how many accidents have you responded to at a drive-thru in the city, how many kiosks have had accidents, and there are far more Meridian City Council Regular Meb." Ig October 16, 2001 Page 23 dangerous looking facilities throughout the city. How many accidents have there been at the Moxie Java on Main Street in Meridian? This is-what we are suggesting here is the same interaction that customers are facing here, here, or all along throughout the front of the Fred Meyer and to say, okay, well, you have to get a Conditional Use Permit, well, are going to say that is not a safe-because it's a not reasonable solution. Can't-I can't have any support for that. De Weerd: Yes. But those people going to Moxie Java are not always going to go north to the Loop Road. If it were me and I was going out Fairview and wanting to go to Boise, I would be flipping a little U'ie-sorry, chief. Durkin: Well, you know, the chiefs here tonight and I'm sure he- De Weerd: Don't tell anyone. Durkin: He could tell us stories all night about people not following the signage and the striping and the-it's up to us to design something that's safe, to build it safely, and to do everything in our power for the private property owner to enforce that safety. And if that's-if that means choking it down, making further modifications-you know, a good example is the wall. If you were going through that TCBY drive-thru-after we built the shopping center and the TCBY opened-and they are open until late at night, people were driving through there and so the headlights were shining in the people's homes across the street. We got a call saying, hey, we've got a problem. Well, we went out and fixed it and we didn't put a little wooden fence up, we put a very expensive nice wall up and that's what responsible developers do. And we are responsible developers. Our client Avest Property Management is a substantial property owner in Ada County and in the City of Meridian. This is a life long investment and a family company and you have to make the assumption, I think, that they are going to be responsible, that they were not -- they are not from Florida or California or out-of-town people. And I think if there is a problem they will-they are responsible to make it safe for the people of Meridian, for the customers of the shopping center, and for the tenants. They have a good reputation of doing that and we have done it throughout the shopping center without-we don't call and tell you about it, we do it all the time. This is a particular matter that requires your consent. Other changes that we make don't require that and we make them all the time. Corrie: Okay. I hate to cut you off, but- Durkin: I'm done. Corrie: Good. We've gone about 25 minutes and we normally spend five minutes, but I wanted to get everything that you had here, Larry, so that -- they had some questions, so we will give you a chance to rebut after hearing everybody. But any other questions fo r La rry? Meridian City Council Regular Mee"",g October 16, 2001 Page 24 De Weerd: Not from Larry. I would have for Chief Worley. Have you had a chance to look at this and how traffic flows and do you have any observations you'd like to share with us? Worley: Mr. Mayor, Councilwoman de Weerd, no, I have not had a chance to look at it. The only comment I would have at this point from a police standpoint this is private property, so from a traffic enforcement standpoint, everybody is pretty much on their own. It's whatever the design of the property dictates as far as traffic flow is what it is. Traffic law, for the most part, does not apply on private property. De Weerd: Well, I do realize that. I was more interested in your observations on the circulation. Worley: I have not had a chance to look at it. De Weerd: Okay. Corrie: This is a continued public hearing. Is there anyone from the public that would like to issue testimony? Yes, sir. Come up here, please, and give your name and your address. De Weerd: I think he should get an A for participation. Van der Ploegh: My name is- Corrie: Okay. Raise your right hand. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Van der Ploegh: I do. Corrie: State your name and address. Van der Ploegh: My name is Josh Van der Ploegh. My address is 2764 South Velvet Falls Way. Well, you're saying that like the traffic flow is the same in all those other areas and things, but there is no building there. That's just a parking lot. It's not as though a parking lot is anything that could possibly block your view. I mean if there is a building, you might be able to see around it, but you'll have a much better chance of seeing over just like a parking lot-I mean if it's ground level there is no way it could possibly restrict your view. If it's around the corner of a building, although it might not be a blind corner, it still is more likely to restrict your view than just paint on the ground or even an island with grass and something, it's not much of a risk of being able to not see the car coming around the other side. Corrie: Okay. Bird: Mr. Mayor. Meridian City Council Regular Meellllg October 16, 2001 Page 25 Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: Son, don't leave, we are going to have some questions of you. No. What we had meant in that was as you come up out of Moxie Java, if this is approved-go back there, Shari. If this is approved, as you leave you have no blind corners, because there is no cars coming from the west-no cars coming from the west. That-if you have been out there at TCBY, you come in and you go west on the north side and come around, so that was what I was meaning by no blind corners. Van der Ploegh: Okay. Bird: You know, you will intersect with cars, but you won't- Van der Ploegh: But can the people going up through the Moxie Java drive through turn left? Bird: I would imagine they should be able to turn left, but then they are just in the line to go through TCBY. Van der Ploegh: Well, wouldn't-like it could restrict traffic in the actual drive-thru itself if they are just-if they want to turn left and there is a line at the TCBY thing, so they just trying to wait and merge in. And the same TCBY- Bird: You would have a traffic jam. Van der Ploegh: Yes. And then the people behind them who are still waiting to get their coffee, their delicious inexpensive coffee. Bird: You know, you young kids have been in enough McDonald's and drive-thrus and stuff to know that there is also traffic jams in a drive-thru. Van der Ploegh: Oh, yes. Corrie: Thank you. Anyone else from the public? Raise your right hand. Do you swear to tell the truth-? Scott: I do. Corrie: -- the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Scott: Yes, sir. Corrie: All right. Go ahead. Meridian City Council Regular Meeting October 16. 2001 Page 26 Scott: My name is Arthur Scott, 1844 North Bing Avenue. What does it say on this plan to-instead of making an intersection where you have a lot-where cars interact, what's to say we don't make a curve-what's to say we don't make a curve that comes up through here and then goes off to the right, so you would have to go around these islands to get back onto the private drive, instead of having an interaction between cars in an intersection now. Because the fewer forced cars, the only thing that they would have deal with as far as traffic is they would have to worry about the traffic on this through-way, instead of making an intersection here and where you could just turn them way and take them up onto the private drive and then you wouldn't have interaction between the cars deciding what's in that lane. Because here if you have a lot of kids that drive a lot like some people I know, they could come around that corner just-l mean they could see somebody as they come around that corner and say, oh, I thought that person was stopped and you run into them and there might be an accident, but I think that the idea of a drive-thru is great, because it's an easiest way for you to get your coffee and not have to worry about it, but maybe an additional plan that doesn't involve an intersection, that might be able to-might be able to deflect traffic, so you're not having the two cars-the two different businesses interacting. Bird: You're saying bringing the window-the serving window down? Scott: Well, you might be able to-you might even be-yes, like you might even be able to put the window more -- but I understand that most of the business is ran out of the back of the building and so that they would probably have to keep the window kind of towards the back of the building also to allow a line to form in case they got busy. But maybe instead of just letting them go straight, forming some kind of curb to direct the flow of traffic to turn here and to come out on along here and go up that way or choose to come back down this way. De Weerd: That's where I was going. Bird: Thank you. Corrie: Thank you. Very good. De Weerd: See, you should have hired him. Corrie: Anyone else? Great experience. Good advice, too. Okay. Hearing none, we will have rebuttal here. You can do it in three, but I'll give you five. Durkin: I appreciate your participation. I think that's good. We took a real close look at trying to-the window is near the counter in this part of the building and we took a really close look at trying to move the traffic out of here and felt that that movement was more of a conflict. You would have an angle intersection here and that's a circumstance that people don't deal with every single day. By having the traffic go straight this way, it's a circumstance that people deal with everyday. There isn't a blind corner, because if you get your coffee, you drive up here, you stop, the only traffic that you're going to Meridian City Council Regular MeeLlllg October 16, 2001 Page 27 encounter is coming from this direction and it's moving very slowly. You stop; you move through here, take your left or your right, whatever you're going to do. There are a number of things that we can do to-we can add chokers and I think that the Council is familiar with what a choker is, maybe the audience isn't, but it's a traffic calming-it narrows the drive lane down, it really limits the traffic, the speed. But I think even in the way Councilman de Weerd drives, you can't really get the speed going in this drive-thru, it's really going to be a slow circumstance. That's something that you can make-put a condition on tonight for us to do, you can put a condition on us tonight to look at that upon completion and add it at a later date. We are willing to do that. We are also willing to have a condition to make it go out at an angle, as the young man suggested and as one of you suggested. But as I testified earlier, there isn't a cost difference to us, it's a safety matter, and our experts, private consulting, Doby Engineering, and Dakota Company, having dealt with these matters many times, we felt that the straight intersection was what people would be most familiar with and would be the safest circumstance. And, again, I just, in closing, I'd like to remind you that the conflict that- the likelihood of a traffic jam at Moxie Java and at TCBY at the same time would be highly unlikely. Is there any other questions? Bird: I've got one question, Larry. On that aisle way I can maybe see-it's not a big problem, but you got arrows going north and south and I realize you have to go north to park-north to get out. What traffic would be coming south? I can see cars going up to getting-and I can see at certain times Moxie Java having three or four cars parked out there waiting to get into line, you would hope if you own Moxie Java. Is that south arrow, that traffic flow to the south right there, is that necessary? Durkin: I can see no reason for that to be there, Councilman Bird. 1- Bird: I'd hate to guess. I doubt very few people use it. Durkin: I can't imagine why they use it, because of the way the stalls are facing. I would happily limit that-l can choke that down at the other end to limit it to a one way, if you feel that would be a safer circumstance. Bird: Well, I don't know, I just-coming down to the south if you have got more than probably four or five cars waiting line, which I have seen Moxie Java early in the mornings have more than four or five cars waiting in line. Durkin: Sure. Bird: The people coming south are going to wait anyway. Durkin: Right. I can see no reason for that southbound traffic and I would happily-at least for the distance of the building I'm happy to make that go away. Bird: I think going south when you come out from in front of there to the south of the building, yes, they need to be able to go south. Meridian City Council Regular Mee.nig October 16, 2001 Page 28 Durkin: Sure. Bird: But I think that maybe at that point there maybe we could try not stopping, but limit it a little bit. Durkin: That's a-having done hundreds of these, that's something I didn't notice until you mentioned it right this very second and that's not a problem, it's not-as you notice, the other drive lane-in fact, I wonder in real life if that is just one way. Because I noticed on the drive lanes that- Bird: Because you're going to-and you know- Durkin: I think the arrow might be incorrect on that plan that we are looking at, which we provided you, but I believe it is one way right now. But I could certainly make it one way. I can choke it down on the south end of that to make it impossible to go two ways there. Bird: I think that's a decision that would have to worked out. The developer would have to design for that, but I can see that as being one way there. Durkin: You can see on the road next to Fred Meyer two ways of the traffic, but the parking stalls are faced two way, though. That would be-I'd happily make that change. Bird: I have no more, Mayor. Corrie: Okay. Any questions? Thank you, Larry. Discussion, Council? Bird: I have none. De Weerd: I have none. Corrie: Okay. Then I will entertain a motion to close the public hearing on Item No. CUP 01-0126. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I move we close the public hearing for the drive-thru lane in a C-G zone for Moxie Java. McCandless: Second. Corrie: Motion and seconded to close the public hearing. Further discussion? All in favor say aye. Opposed no. All ayes. Motion carried. Meridian City Council Regular Mea;" Ig October 16,2001 Page 29 MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT. Corrie: Discussion? Don't all speak at once. Bird: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: When this had come through in '99 I wasn't as concerned with the safety factor as some of the other council people. I don't-l don't have any problem with this. I think there is a lot of facts showing that you got two business there that does their peak businesses at different times. I would like to see if the developers couldn't some way choke that-at least the length of the building from the loop down to the length of the building and go south. I realize once you come out of the parking lot there to the south of the building you need to go south, but I don't see any problems with that. If Moxie Java has that much business they would probably be-have Larry finding them a bigger place. So J, for one, would have no problem with approving this Conditional Use Permit. See what the other Council people think. Corrie: Any other discussion? Any comments? Bird: These two didn't vote on it originally. De Weerd: I did at P&Z. McCandless: I only have one comment and that is we were talking about the drive- thrus that are on the property, the sandwich shop and the dry cleaners, and I would just point out that there isn't that kind of congestion there, because the cleaners go from south to north and the sandwich shop goes from north to south on the other side. Bird: And that's basically what they are doing, except they have got a loop road to deal with on this one where the loop road don't deal with at the cleaners and the deal. So you're basically running the same system here. McCandless: Exactly. Bird: There is probably not quite as much traffic congestion to me at this one than there is over at the Subway and the cleaners. That seems like an awful small parking lot to me in the south of that building. McCandless: Yes, it's small, but- Bird: Especially if you've got a pickup trying to get through there. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Meridian City Council Regular Meellllg October 16, 2001 Page 30 Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I guess I still have a concern for those that want to go back out onto Fairview, that they are not going to go onto the Loop Road, so there should be some kind of measure there to direct that traffic to the east, so that you're not running into the possibility of a car going into the drive-thru for TCBY. But I do agree that our shopping centers kind of have a life and it's a living one and things constantly change. The corner across the street has changed to commercial, whereas before it was residential, so I'm just concerned about the intersection there. Bird: Mr. Mayor. Mrs. de Weerd, I would think that a person would only once try to get out from that shopping center across Fairview, traveling Fairview as much as I do. You'd be awful smart to go the Loop Road and get onto Locust Grove and at least have a light to get you onto it. I think that this is very clean. I don't see any hidden corners where people are going to be blind, can't see the cars. The only problem you could have if somebody got in the -- coming through the TCBY backwards, which I guess could happen, but I doubt it would. So, you know, I think that the businesses and the developer will make sure that the safety is number one, because it's to their advantage to make sure the safety is number one. Corrie: Any other discussion? Mrs. McCandless. McCandless: I was just wondering, that arrow up there on that access road or private road, is that a one way or is that just the way they put it? Up there next to Locust Grove. Yes. Stiles: It's two way. McCandless: Is it two way? Bird: I beg your pardon. That Loop Road? It's a two lane. McCandless: Well, that's what I was asking. Does that arrow indicate one way? Bird: I don't believe it's just one way. It's-well, I think you can come on from -- you can come on-or get onto Locust Grove and- McCandless: And you can go out that way, too? Bird: You can go out that way. McCandless: Okay. Bird: Mr. Mayor. Meridian City Council Regular Meetlllg October 16, 2001 Page 31 Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: If we have no more discussion, I would move that we approve the request for a Conditional Use Permit for the addition of a drive-up window and a drive-thru lane in a C-G zone for Moxie Java, Locust Grove Road and East Loop Lane, and for the attorney to draw up the Findings of Facts and Decision of Order-and Conclusions of Law. Corrie: Okay. A motion has been made. Do I hear a second? Okay. No second? Motion dies for lack of second. Boy, you guys are really getting some training, aren't you? Okay. I will take another motion then. Or- Nichols: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Nichols. Nichols: If I may ask a question. Corrie: Okay. Nichols: Would it make any difference to the Council members if a condition was imposed that if it created a traffic hazard the Conditional Use Permit could be revoked? De Weerd: Yes. Corrie: A Conditional Use Permit can always be revoked on a condition, yes. Nichols: So if it were a condition that the developer would take steps to improve the safety and determine whether or not it created a safety hazard could be written into the permit. Corrie: That could be done if Council so desires, yes. Bird: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: The only question I have is who determines whether it's a safety issue or not? I'm not a traffic engineer. I guess it would-I guess it would-and I don't believe that minor fender benders-our police department is always called out on them in private parking. They do not write tickets or anything. So we would have no idea that way. It's like the Mayor says, you can always -- if you have a problem you can-on a Conditional Use Permit, you can always revoke it. You don't have to have a special reason to revoke it. A certain person could get-or, you know, somebody could get upset with it and come back in and say it's a safety hazard. Well, I'm not going to be the judge of whether it's a safety hazard or not, nor do I think we should be. Meridian City Council Regular Meeting October 16, 2001 Page 32 De Weerd: What's your thought, Mr. Nichols. You don't want an answer as to who would make that decision? Bird: Well, I don't think anybody can tell you who is going to make that decision, unless you put it in your motion. And what are you going to say if it's-if they have five wrecks out there is it a safety hazard? If they have ten wrecks? Or is it like stop signs and stuff like that, you have to have so many people hurt. How do you determine what's a safety hazard? De Weerd: Good question. I don't know. Bird: Because you've got traffic intersections in the city that's probably a safety hazard and I don't like this on a condition-my opinion it's bad enough to have to come forward for a Conditional Use Permit period. And then when you start putting more restrictions on it, I'm a hundred percent against it. De Weerd: Yes. But if those restrictions are to assure the safety of a potential hazard you're creating, then it deserves to be there, so- Bird: What's the different hazard you're going to have there as you would -- that you have down at McDonald's? In fact, you have got worse at McDonald's. You're going through a drive-thru, plus coming in and out of a parking structure that's right there to the north of it. I don't believe there has ever been a wreck out there. There might be a fender bender, but our police department would not be called. I don't know. I just think it's time we quit legislating things for the-let the people take-you know, have their ways. Corrie: I'm going to say something here to this class. A lot of things I agree with what Mr. Bird is saying, but it is the job of the City Council to legislate and it's our responsibility, we are elected to that, and we have to make our decisions sometimes. So don't get the idea that we don't want to make decisions, we may not like them, but we have to make them. And so that's the -- if you run for election and you win, you get on the City Council, you have to make these decisions. We don't always like it and we may not always agree, but we just can't say let it go and not do anything. So I just- that's my perspective and I don't think that's what he meant, but just-he has to make those decisions-not he, but we all do. So just so you know, so-okay. Bird: Let me clarify that. It did sound a lot worse than what I really meant. I'm not afraid to make-to legislate anything. But I think it's time that-I think that we need to put a little more responsibility on the citizens, the drivers and stuff. It's not-this isn't something that's rare to have drive-thrus with this type of traffic congestion. So it's not a first. And I think it's like Mr. Durkin said, we have had-they had plenty of these, there is no bad wrecks or anything else, you know, you're not talking about going 50, 60 mlles an hour. Maybe a fender bender now and then, but-and as good business people, if they start having this, I believe that they will do something to get rid of it. They will either shut the window down or they will change the plan. They are here to serve Meridian City Council Regular Meellilg October 16, 2001 Page 33 customers and to sell their coffee. So I don't see anything wrong with it. But the other two can-I threw my motion out and I don't want to sit here another hour waiting. De Weerd: Okay. Well, I will give my two cents worth. I do take it as to-just because decisions have been made in the past that set up for some pretty awkward situations with vehicle access into drive-thrus and cross traffic, it does not mean that we need to continue to make those decisions. And we do need to take safety as a first concern in how we formulate decisions and even though I highly respect Mr. Durkin, I just have some real serious doubts about the flow of those two drive-thrus and I just can't support it as it's being presented. So with that I will make a motion that we deny the Conditional Use Permit for the addition of a drive-thru window-or drive-up window and drive-thru lane in a C-G zone for Moxie Java and to have the city attorney draw up the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and Decision of Order. McCandless: Second. Corrie: Okay. Motion has been made and seconded to deny the request for the drive- thru Conditional Use Permit 01-026. Further discussion? Okay. Hearing none, roll call, Mr. Berg. Roll-Call: Bird, naye; De Weerd, aye; McCandless, aye; Anderson, absent. Corrie: Okay. Two ayes, one naye, motion to deny is approved. MOTION CARRIED: TWO AYES. ONE NAYE. ONE ABSENT. Corrie: Okay. Item NO.7. I'm going to let the- Bird: Holy cow. We got rid of the- Corrie: What is the teacher's name. Mr. Palmer? Fullmer. Bird: Are we supposed to report the ones that stay and the ones that leave? Corrie: This is an example of something that comes up quite often with the Council. You look at that and think, well, this is going to be a slam-dunk or it's going to be real quick and we have spent about an hour on this one, but that happens. I will answer questions, since this is a class here tonight. Yes. Give your name again. Van der Ploegh: Josh Van der Ploegh. Corrie: Okay. Van der Ploegh: The one thing I don't understand is why does TCBY really need a drive-thru? I mean in my entire Iife-l have heard of drive-thru coffee, but drive-thru ice cream? I mean if you want ice cream you usually go inside, get ice cream, and sit down Meridian City Council Regular Meetlllg October 16, 2001 Page 34 and eat it. I mean, if anything, why don't they just give the drive-thru to Moxie Java and take away TCBY's and-does anyone here really go for a drive-thru ice cream? Bird: That-- Van der Ploegh: Do you go for drive-thru ice cream? Oh. Okay. Bird: I don't go get Moxie Java either. De Weerd: I do. Item 7. Public Hearing: CUP 01-021 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a dual restaurant with drive-thru in a C-G zone for Kentucky Fried Chicken/A&W by G & H Enterprises II - 677 East First Street. Corrie: Okay. Let's continue here on Item No.7, public hearing, request for Conditional Use Permit for a dual restaurant drive-thru in a C-G zone for Kentucky Fried Chicken and A&W by G & H Enterprises II - 677 East First Street. Before we open the public hearing I will want to you notice that we did not get any comments from ACHD and this public hearing may be continued to the next meeting time because of that, because we don't have that. So at this-yes. Berg: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, there might be some confusion because Wendy's proposed application that's coming up before you soon is close to the same address, but the P&Z, if I'm not mistaken, did receive recommendations from ACHD and in their recommendation to you it points out in the document those certain recommendations. So I don't want the confusion saying that ACHD did not see their project. My understanding is they did and P&Z even delayed it to see their recommendations from ACHD and put that in their recommendations to the City Council. Corrie: Okay. Berg: And you may need some more explanation from Shari, but just so there is no confusion there, I don't think they are waiting for ACHD's recommendation. Those from Wendy's were mistakenly put on because of the address. Corrie: Okay. Thank you. We will get this all out here very soon. So I will open the public hearing and ask staff to comment first. Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, you have the recommendations from the Planning and Zoning Commission. This is for a new drive-thru Kentucky Fried Chicken at the parcel- on the parcel where the current Kentucky Fried Chicken is located. The recommendation from the Planning and Zoning Commission was that the existing drive- thru be closed. If that is the division of City Council, we need some discussion of the timing of that closure, whether it will be prior to occupancy of the new Kentucky Fried Meridian City Council Regular MeeHllg October 16, 2001 Page 35 Chicken or when that would be. The Planning and Zoning Commission recommended landscaping adjacent to the southern boundary. Additional landscaping. I don't know if this plan shows that or not. I am a little confused with the site plan and Ada County Highway District's comments. They have indicated that they need a minimum of 40 feet right of way on Meridian Road from the center line and that would be-that 40 feet would be right to this drive-thru, which would leave no room for any landscaping. I'm not sure if Mr. Gibbs can comment on that, but it does not appear that there will be any opportunity for landscaping. This is an entryway corridor; our landscaping ordinance requires a minimum of 35 feet. Because of the odd configuration of the ground we could probably work on some alternative compliance, but I think we need to clarify that with the Ada County Highway District. Gary Smith, the Public Works Director, has indicated that the centerline of Meridian Road is the section line as they show on their plan. So that would wipe out a lot of landscaping on a very important entryway into our city. They have also-they also requested during the Planning and Zoning Commission hearing retaining the existing 60 foot sign with the bucket on it that is not in compliance with our sign ordinance and that cannot be approved as part of this Conditional Use, but they have applied for a variance, which will be before the City Council on the 20th of November. Ada County Highway District's conditions also asked for a road track for a five foot wide detached concrete sidewalk on Meridian Road and East First Street. Gary, is this on any plan that they have for construction? You might remember that we brought up with Ada County Highway District the need to get this intersection planned. We have asked for that for years. Especially if you're considering approving a new building and it's going to be very costly for them to obtain the right of way once there is a new building there. But it doesn't seem that they have really addressed that. I would recommend that that sidewalk be built, instead of waiting, or depositing it into Ada County Highway District's road trust, unless it's within a plan to be done in the next five years, which I don't remember if it is or not. Gary said it was 2005, 2006. So-and Gary indicated there is a design for the intersection. Other than that, I would like to see how they are proposing to do any landscaping on the southern boundary here, because they do have parking shown there now. Whether it would be here or where I don't know. Their arrows indicate that they would have to- Gibbs: The southern boundary. Stiles: Oh, I'm sorry. You're right, Mr. Gibb. They have indicated that they would like the additional landscaping on the southern boundary. Corrie: On the southern or the northern? Stiles: The southern property line where this is. I don't know if they don't have any plans to connect these-this sidewalk or what the design is for that, but if they are going to request the 40 feet, that's going to be a particular problem for this site, so-if that's not the case, then Ada County Highway District can indicate to us that they are not taking 40 feet from the center line -- or from the section line, we would recommend that it be approved with the recommendations of the Planning and Zoning Commission and the-all other staff and agency conditions. Meridian City Council Regular Meeting October 16, 2001 Page 36 Corrie: Okay. Any questions for staff? De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: That intersection is scheduled to be improved in 2004, I believe. They were talking about bumping it back to 2005, but I do know that in the discussions on Overland and Franklin that City Council did strongly oppose that and it's been scheduled for construction and improvement several times and they keep bumping it off. So we-our recommendation was to them to try and keep that in there as much as possible and they will just have to deal with the dollars on that. So how does that affect-I guess without ACHD's recommendation it would be kind of hard to even discuss this, if you don't have the specifics on the right of way they are requiring, and how those sidewalks should be connecting, that's really odd that they don't have a sidewalk connecting. But we not seen any kind of design or plan for that intersection, so, I don't know, maybe the applicant, when he comes up, can tell us what they informed him of. Corrie: Any other comments? Questions? Okay. This is a public hearing. The applicant has- Shari: This is from Wendy's? Corrie: Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Gibbs: Yes. Corrie: State you name and address. Gibbs: Jonathan Gibbs. I'm a partner with G & H Enterprises II, 9502 Scorpio, Boise, Idaho. Mr. Mayor and Members of the City Council, we have met with ACHD on this matter several months ago. We discussed the corner there. They do not have any plans as of yet. They are going in to start their planning in the year 2002 for that corner. However, we did go out and measure it, there is plenty of room there, like from our property line to the road there was 50 feet of space there. We told them we would be happy to put the sidewalk in around that corner or we would put the money in trust for the sidewalk, whatever they desired in that respect. We would like to see it complete, because we want a nice looking facility for our store. But we would go along with however they want to do it. So we only designed the sidewalks to come there to not interfere with their construction. They didn't want us to build them and then maybe have to tear part of it out or something when they did the corner and that was their suggestion on that. As far as the 40-foot right of way on Meridian Street, we complied with that in our drawings. After we met with them we resubmitted them to the City of Meridian, they went through Planning and Zoning with the correct 40 foot distance on our landscape Meridian City Council Regular Meeting October 16, 2001 Page 37 and everything was drawn to-properly done with the 40 foot right of way, so I don't know what the problem is now. The architect is here if you want to want address any of those concerns. But we thought we had complied with every aspect of ACHD and the City of Meridian and we met with the Planning and Zoning on it and they indicated we had. And so to hear that comment from Shari today kind of took us as a setback, because we are pretty sure we are in compliance with the ACHD then. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: So the plat-the most recent plat is August 6th; is that correct? Gibbs: It's what? De Weerd: It's dated August 6th? Okay. Shari, is that the one that you're referring to? Stiles: Yes. De Weerd: Okay. Stiles: And we also have a letter dated-from Ada County Highway District, dated August 2nd, that requests a 96 foot right of way on Meridian Road. Gibbs: That was their original request. We went to a hearing on that, too, by the ACHD to change that from 96 to 80 feet, because they didn't have any plans for the road either and when the original 96 was put up there they didn't know what they were going to need and so we had a re-hearing and they agreed on the 90 -- on the 80 feet. So there may be some confusion there, but I thought we had had it all cleared and I met with the Planning and Zoning on this and Dave has indicated that it was set to go and recommended to -- and it went through the Planning and Zoning on that basis. So we are a little -- we are confused tonight, especially after I went down and picked up my plans and had all of Wendy's stuff in there from ACHD and that's why the comment- see comment from ACHD was put on there, because they had Wendy's stuff attached. Because this letter addresses all of the concerns, I think, of ACHD of the final approval in August. De Weerd: So the notation from ACHD in the findings or the recommendation by the Planning and Zoning Commission is correct as to the ACHD requirement on your application? Gibbs: As far as we are concerned they are correct. We have agreed with them and we have made our drawings in conformity to them. Meridian City Council Regular Meeting October 16, 2001 Page 38 Corrie: I guess my question is, Shari, on this-if they have to dedicate that 40 feet of right of way, then you have got some landscaping problems here. They don't have enough room. Stiles: They don't The 40 feet is not indicated on the plan, it's only 30 feet. Corrie: Yes. Stiles: Between the property line and Meridian Road it only scales 30 feet. Gibbs: When we built the Bolo's and the Taco Bell, the road was widened at that time and the 30 feet dedicated all along there. They purchased the property from us, ACHD did, and when we took this project to them they originally said 96, we argued that point, they changed it to 80, which meant 40 feet from the center line and we went back through our plans, took out another ten feet for the right of way and submitted them and had them approved by ACHD and Planning and Zoning, City of Meridian, so- Bird: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: Mr. Gibbs, what you're saying, then, is the original 30 feet of right of way was dedicated when the original plat proposed- Gibbs: When you widened Meridian Road, which is a little bit after- Bird: Okay. Gibbs: Yes. We had to dedicate it at that time, but it was put in when they widened the road to the 30 feet. Bird: So what you're-what you're saying off of this drawing right here is ACHD is only requesting ten more feet? Gibbs: That's correct. Bird: And that is shown here on the-on the plan. De Weerd: No. Bird: It isn't? Gibbs: My understanding is that we had that all taken care of. Nichols: Mr. Mayor, Members of the Council, maybe the engineering can clear up this point, I mean whether this-there is a line that's shown on here that appears to be the Meridian City Council Regular Meellng October 16, 2001 Page 39 section line that shows the-where the section corner is, that is on this one that I looked at, and that's the one, I believe, that Shari just measured and said it's 30 feet from that line to the property line and perhaps we can get to this particular issue if an engineer or the architect could come forward and tell us where they are coming from on that point. Corrie: Yes. McKeegan: My name is Patrick McKeegan. My office address is 810 South Vista Avenue, Boise, Idaho. I'm the architect on this project. And the plan that I have in my briefcase and the one that I prepared, Mr. Gibbs originally brought the original plans to us with the 96 foot overall, we pulled it back so that we do have 40 feet of-of right of way on-from the center line of the street. I don't know if the center line has been adjusted or what, but I know when we did the planning for Mr. Gibbs we made sure that everything would work on that regard. Nichols: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Nichols. Nichols: Mr. McKeegan, take this one that's in my file that was received on August 7th, see if that matches the one that you took out of your briefcase that was considerably red uced by- McKeegan: Yes, they are the same plan. Nichols: Well, why don't you get the measuring stick from Shari and you can explain this apparent discrepancy then. Bird: If that's the center line of the road we sure don't have no 40 feet to the boundary. Nichols: That's-I mean we just-nobody wants to make a mistake here, that's why I'm just checking. McKeegan: I stand corrected. Staff is correct. We only show 30 feet from the center- from the center line to the property line. We can certainly adjust that and, actually, it's just about 30 -- 30 to about 35 -- we can adjust-we have enough room in the parking lot to where we can adjust the-we can adjust the west property line to accommodate that. And then we will just have to tilt the entrance to the parking down a little bit. That's not a-we can certainly accommodate that requirement. We have enough room on the site to do that. That won't affect our parking, it won't affect any of the other items that -- Bird: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Bird. Meridian City Council Regular Meeting October 16, 2001 Page 40 Bird: Patrick, will this-it won't affect your drive-thru there? It won't shut down-it won't come back in on that too far, will it, by the time you get your planting and your sidewalk in? McKeegan: No. We have more than enough stacking space. If you look in that drawing, we have one, two, three, four, five, six- Bird: Yes. McKeegan: -- seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven cars shown, you know, which is almost 200 feet. I mean we have-so I'm not-l think so- Bird: Will it tighten that corner, though, getting around the-that's the thing in the- McKeegan: The corner will stay the same. For design purposes on these types of drive-in restaurants, which I seem to do quite a few of. Your interior -- minimum interior rate is 18 feet and that's what we-you always design to. So the portion that would be modified-if you look at the building, on the south side of the building there is kind of an enclosed area there, that is an equipment screen that is not going to be required for this project, so we actually have additional area there at the back of the building that we can -- you know, that we can utilize. The equipment screen is left over from a previous rendition of the project and on this project is not going to be required. I will be-we have lengthened this-the kitchen area of the store, so that the equipment that would normally be stored there can be stored indoors. If I may, I'd like to address a couple of the other comments that staff made. Mr. Gibbs was correct, we-the Highway District does not have any definitive plans for that corner and at the Planning and Zoning Commission I made the point that-there was a lot of discussion about the existing trees at that location and I made the point at the Planning and Zoning Commission that those trees, in fact, are on ACHD's right of way and we have no control over ACHD in the future what will happen with that. Our commitment is to Planning and Zoning Commission and a commitment that we will reiterate here tonight is that we will add additional landscaping on the south side of the property line on our property. At the Commission we were reluctant to commit to any landscaping with an ACHD right of way when in two or three years they are going to be tearing it out and removing it. It doesn't-it's not a good use of our money, we would rather put the money into landscaping our property that's going to stay there. And also we committed that if it was Council's pleasure at this point in time, we would put in a connecting sidewalk just on the other side of the property line and, hopefully-I have talked to my engineers and they are hopeful that ACHD can give us some guidance as to where the sidewalk elevations would be. Along that regard we would also-at Planning and Zoning we also committed that we would put the sidewalks along the east and west boundaries as we have shown, if it's Council's pleasure at this point in time. We-again, there is always a concern that you're going to put in something that the Highway District may come out and tear out in the future, but if they decide that that's a diligent use of public funds, then that's a decision that they have to make. In my mind, my engineers have indicated ! Meridian City Council Regular Meellllg October 16, 2001 Page 41 that if we place those sidewalks six inches or 12 inches above the crown of the existing street that would probably be in a safe location and we would, of course, confirm that with the Highway District before we would do anything. One other item that we requested and the Highway District has approved was that the existing entrance drives into the facility on the northwest and northeast corners be widened to 35 feet to allow for better ease of traffic getting off and on of those-off and on those streets. I'd like to point out that there is also a driveway that we are going to be closing, which is approximately midway between the existing northwest driveway and the southwest corner of the property. The Highway District has requested that we close that-that we close that driveway and which we have shown on our plan. The Planning and Zoning Commission requested that we change the type of plant material along the east property line from the skyrocket junipers to another plant material and we are going to do that when we do our submission to the city for a building permit. We agree those are not appropriate material for that-for that place. Finally, as to the drive-thru, staff made a very good point that in Planning and Zoning's requirement that the drive-existing drive-thru be closed, there wasn't any discussion as to the timing. I think it would only be logical that that drive-thru be allowed to be-maintain its use until the new facility is open and the building abandoned. I certainly wouldn't want to place my client in a position of having to shut down an important part of his operation and something that's highly utilized by the citizens of Meridian before the new facility is open. At this time I'd answer any questions you might have. Bird: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: Patrick, on the existing building, you run that-you will keep that open until you can actually move in and start selling out of the new one? McKeegan: Yes. Bird: Then get rid of the old one? McKeegan: The building will be abandoned. The owner hasn't determined yet if he's going to maintain the structure or if he's going to- Bird: You don't know if it's going to come down or just going to- McKeegan: It's our-that decision hasn't been made, but the-because of the awkwardness of the existing drive-thru in the location and the existing congestion at that-the Planning and Zoning Commissioners was very adamant about wanting to make sure that that was-that we understood that that would be closed and that any reopening of that would require a new application. It was not a given that that drive-up window in that location would be automatically approved as part of this request. Bird: Okay. Meridian City Council Regular Meeung October 16, 2001 Page 42 Corrie: Okay. Any other questions, Council? Bird: I have none. McKeegan: Thank you. I apologize for the confusion on the property line issue. Corrie: Is there anyone else here from the public that would like to issue testimony on this issue? Council? I guess the question is now do you still want to see the ACHD letter Of go without the comments? Bird: Mr. Mayor. COfrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: Do you really believe that ACHD is far enough along to give us an accufate guideline? Do you think they really-l don't believe they-l don't believe at this point that- Corrie: Is that a rhetorical question or do you want to answer it? Bird: No. I want you to answer it. Corrie: I think you're going to give one the same as mine. Bird: I guess just-not having that doesn't bother me on this. We can make a decision. I feel that this is probably designed as well as you could design anything for that corner. Corrie: Any other comments from Council? The reason I asked that question is we have a public hearing and- Bird: Yes. You bet. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I think we should have the correct and updated ACHD report, in particular if they are changing the right of way from 96 to 80 feet, we do need that for our Findings and we should leave this open so that we can enter that into public record and accurately reflect those findings from ACHD. Bird: When will we receive that? De Weerd: I don't know. Meridian City Council Regular Meeting October 16, 2001 Page 43 Corrie: Shari, can we get those-when will we get those? Do you have any idea? They have got them, don't they? Stiles: Well, we have the one. It doesn't say it's a draft, it says the commissioners acted on it on August 1 st, It's a final letter. I don't have-I don't know where the other one-do you have any record of another letter? Smith: No. Stiles: And feel like it's the revised site plan that shows the accurate right of way, because if this is-if they need 40 feet there, they are losing all of the landscaping, basically, on Meridian Road. They are cutting into the parking stalls, they are cutting into the retention swale- De Weerd: Well, then, I think it would be appropriate to table this and give the applicant a chance to meet with staff, talk about the plat, and to get an ACHD report that reflects the location of the change of right of way requirement that applicant also noted or- Bird: You mean to continue it or- De Weerd: To continue it. I'm sorry. What is a reasonable amount of time to table this to? Is two weeks enough to get the information from the applicant and ACHD? Bird: We could have a new site plan. Corrie: Let the record show that the applicant said yes to have enough time in two weeks. De Weerd: Okay. You can say they nodded. Corrie: They nodded. Yes. Bird: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: With that, then, I'll move that we continue the public hearing for the request of a Conditional Use Permit for a dual restaurant with drive-thru in a C-G zone for Kentucky Fried Chicken/A&W, 477 East First Avenue. De Weerd: Second. Corrie: Oka~. Motion has been made and seconded to continue the public hearing to November 7t ; is that correct? Bird: Yes. November 7th. Meridian City Council Regular Meeting October 16, 2001 Page 44 Corrie: All right. On the CUP 01-021. Any further discussion? McCandless: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. McCandless. McCandless: Is it 477 or 677, Keith? Bird: it's 677. I'm sorry. McCandless: Yes. Corrie: Okay. 677 East First Street. Okay. All those in favor of the motion say aye. Opposed no? All ayes. Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT. Corrie: Okay. So we will have that in-the faster we get that back in and we will get the ACHD to put it on the agenda. Item 8. Discussion of Ada County Development Services Project for Keltic Heights - 1,451 units on 383.81 acres. Corrie: Item No. 8 is a discussion of Ada County Development Services project for Keltic Heights, 1,451 units on 383.81 acres. Okay. Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, I had hoped to have a review done for you by tonight. Unfortunately, other city projects came up that took precedence over this. The proposal is to have approximately 1,451 units on this property located between Linder Road and Meridian Road north of Ustick-or north of McMillan. Excuse me. There has also been a separate application submitted to the county for rezoning of this property to -- 40 acres to a C-2 zone, commercial zoning. They are proposing teaming with other developers and creating their own package plant for this property or some kind of wastewater treatment facility. You can tell by this drawing they are proposing commercial here, some more strip commercials at the intersection here and along Chinden. Also along Linder Road. The proposal is for light commercial. I have no definition for light commercial. I didn't find anything in Ada County's code for light commercial. A lot of the development is proposed for some of these-they didn't show up-the colors don't show up well on here, but what they term a large house concept, which is apartments and not having any idea of what those look like, J would imagine it's probably similar to what they proposed in Sundance Subdivision, which is now known as Resolution Subdivision. I don't know. That's just a guess. Greg's here if you have some questions of him. But my recommendation to you would be to forward a letter- that I would write a letter forwarding it to the county tomorrow asking for this to be -- if they would consider continuing the public hearing until November 20th, so hopefully we Meridian City Council Regular Meeting October 16, 2001 Page 45 can get our review complete and also let our city attorney review some of the issues regarding this project. A plat has not been submitted at this time. The county accepts what's known as a sketch plat. You don't have a copy of that. We have got one copy of it and it's very large. We didn't have a reduced copy of it, so- Corrie: Shari, this letter-am I reading it right, that it says that we plan on building the North Slough trunk line for the City of Meridian to and through this site. If the City of Meridian decides not to be ready for sewer service at the time, we will create a new sewer district-is that the way they interpret- Stiles: That's what they are proposing, yes. Corrie: And they are going to service it with United Water? Stiles: That's what they are proposing, yes. Corrie: Where are they in this 12 square mile discussion with Ada county and us and everybody else? Are they out on their own and not in that discussion? Bird: No. They are participating. Johnson: Do you want me to- Corrie: Would you, please. We would like to know if you're a part of it or not a part of it. That's the question. Johnson: Greg Johnson at 2433 Can Ada Road, Melba, Idaho. Do you have a copy of this? Bird: Yes. Johnson: With the color? Okay. Mayor, to address your question as to whether we are a part of that North Meridian Planning, we are. You have to understand that this submittal was submitted to the county in April, long before that had ever been proposed. We have-we have stated in our application with the county that we would like to build Meridian services. We would like to build Meridian sewer. We do have an agreement entered into with Mr. Goldsmith that we have easements through his property, if his property isn't approved, but if it is approved we would do that project jointly. We are willing to build water systems, give well sites, so that Meridian water would also be obtained. We did submit in our application at that time in April that if Meridian chose not to service that, that we would like to be able to service that with local services, but- Corrie: In what period of time? Johnson: We have-we have since discussed with your city engineer the capacity of the plant. There seems to be plenty of capacity in that plant and plans for future Meridian City Council Regular Meeting October 16, 2001 Page 46 development of the treatment plant to be able to handle this growth. We are certainly not going to develop this 380 some acres all at once, it will be in phases of 50 lots at a time. As Shari has mentioned, the white corner down at the bottom in the-it would be the southeast corner, that 40 acres is designated on the current comp plan as neighborhood commercial and we absolutely made a separate application for zoning to that type of zoning on that corner. What you see here is submitted for R-4 zoning, as it's called for in the current comp plan, and what we are proposing is a planned unit development on that R-4 property for mixed development. The fed areas that are designated light commercial on Meridian Road and Linder and the portion furthest west on Chinden, those would be dentist-type offices, accounting offices, services similar to office buildings there on Eagle Road that have been developed along there and also along Chinden further to the east towards Boise. The corner section of Chinden and Meridian Road-in the county they restrict those buildings to under 2,000 square feet and so it would be a neighborhood shopping-small shopping, it would not allow a large box-type retail there. And that is not under our ownership, but it is part of our application. That ten acres is still retained by the original owner. First of all, any other questions by the Council as to-I do want-l do want you to understand that I'm not trying to be hard headed. I know you have told me once that you weren't ready for this. We submitted it for annexation a little over a year ago. Please understand that from my perspective I can't just sit and wait. The interest carry on this is huge and I have to keep pursuing to develop it. I'm not trying to make life miserable for anybody or trying to push something that shouldn't be pushed before its time. If I could take a little more time, I'd like to explain a couple things about the market that has been taking place in the last year and a half. When the city announced that they were going build the White Trunk, at that time we were paying about 20,000 an acre fOf ground in north Meridian. Since that time, from the last-the last couple of weeks there has been pafcels of ground bought in the Ustick-McMilIan corridor at 37,500 an acre. That's almost double. In the meantime, very-very few plats have been approved in not just Meridian, but all of Ada county has been somewhat restricted. Because of that, lot prices have jumped significantly. When we started developing in Meridian in 1988, the first project we did was Gem Park Subdivision. That subdivision the lots sold-similar lots to what we are asking for here today-sold for 14,900 a lot. That was in 1989 by the time those were developed. Today that same lot sells for 45 to 55 thousand an acre-or per lot. That's over triple. We have pushed affordable housing out of Ada county. Most of it is going to Nampa and Caldwell. On current prices of lots, builders, because of ratios to lot prices that they have to build on houses, the cheapest houses we have in Ada County are around 130,000. There might be one or two lower than that, but the bulk of it is 130,000 to 250,000. We need to start approving a few of these projects, so that the dam just doesn't eventually burst one day and then the market is totally flooded. We don't need more things like the Eagle market where there is just all one product, it's a very expensive product, and now it's extremely overbuilt, but we need a variety of housing, we need to cover as many of the areas as we can over 110,000 to provide housing for the citizens in Ada county. And I would sure appreciate your support if you can. Any questions? Corrie: Yes. I've still got questions. Meridian City Council Regular Meeting October 16, 2001 Page 47 Johnson: Okay. Corrie: What's your time table here? Are you not-are you wanting to do this before we come to a possible agreement with the developers and Ada county and ACHD and the City of Meridian or are you planning to do this now? I mean I'm sure it's a money situation, you have made that very plain. As far as we are concerned, it's what's going happen in 15 years out there. We are trying to work with Ada county and I hope developers and trying to do exactly what I think you're saying you want to do. But my take on this is you're trying to jump it. Now am I wrong? And not wait for this development thing to see what's going to- Johnson: I'm working it-I'm working it the same time as-right now I'm working with that plan. We are just putting together right now the land use portion of it. What I'm proposing here is really no different than what we are proposing in a Jot of the area, although in some of the areas there will be more business-park type proposals at this time, but we are working through that. This application at the county will simply get us zoning and a development agreement. If the city would like, I am willing to come back into the city through annexation. We are contiguous to the city now in the southwest corner to Bridgetower project-or the Primeland project. I don't have-l don't have any desire to develop outside of the City of Meridian if I can develop within the City of Meridian. We have not submitted a preliminary plat. It will probably take us another six months to a year, if we get approvals now, to submit a preliminary plat and to actually have our first phase under construction would probably be a year and a half. I hope we have all those other things settled by then. Corrie: I hope so, too. It's a disturbing thing to me-and the Council can pick your's, too. I don't want to take up all the time, but- Johnson: Okay. Corrie: -- but I would like to-it states here will be served by United Water and we will create our own sewer district if Meridian doesn't move on this or accept your offer to do this. Johnson: Mr. Mayor- Corrie: Now hear me out. Hear me out. Johnson: Okay. What are you reading from? Corrie: I'm reading from the Briggs Engineering letter to the Keltic Heights Planned Unit Development that was I presume for the city and I guess my concern is we have really got probably a flagship development out of this 12 square mile area. We are all trying to work together and to me this just says if you don't like what I'm-what we are doing, you're going to go ahead and do it and we are trying to make this all work together, we Meridian City Council Regular Meellng October 16,2001 Page 48 have got 55 to 60 thousand people out there and I don't know what your time table is, but it sounds like if it's not done within six months, then you're going to ask the county to do all this and we are going to be on the other side of the fence. Johnson: This letter was written on June 5th of this year. Corrie: Okay. Johnson: I believe the proposal to do the planning for the north Meridian was proposed the 1st of August or so. Bird: I think we had our first meeting in June-end of June. It was after this. Johnson: It was after this letter. Corrie: After this letter. Johnson: And, Mayor, I don't want to be adversarial and our intent now is to work with the other developers in that area and the city and the county and to come up with a reasonable program and development of that. We will wait as long as we have to for those services, but we would like to be able to continue through the process so that all of us aren't trying to get through the gate two years from now and nothing gets developed. Corrie: And I think this can be all done with this-all of us grouped together and plan it out, but when I see things like this, the hair on the back of neck stands up and- Johnson: And I understand. Corrie: Because you're just smacking in the face of you don't want to follow what we are saying, you have got a plan-and I'm not just saying you, I mean it's others, you understand? Johnson: Yes. Corrie: And I'm not bitter at you or anything else, I'm just saying that we need to work together on this thing and if we don't we are going to give a heritage to our kids out there of blacktop and houses that all look the same and I don't think we want to see that. Johnson: And we don't want that either. Corrie: And that's where I'm coming from. So I want to-I've taken enough time. Johnson: I'm sorry that letter was written before and submitted as part of this, but it was and I can't take that back. Meridian City Council Regular Mee,,,,g October 16, 2001 Page 49 Corrie: I understand. Johnson: My intent now is to build city services, both water and sewer, and to try to build this in the City of Meridian, if you will allow me to. Corrie: Okay. Council, I'm sorry I took up so much time, but- Johnson: Any other questions? Bird: I have none. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor? Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I think you said the lion's share of it. You know, I would say that this city, if this application does go forth to the county, would oppose it. We would much rather you annex in and work within the city and be a participant in the North Corridor Planning Area. I do see your predicament and at this time I don't know if any of us have an answer to that, but I know our staff is a little bit concerned about what's going to happen when this North Corridor Planning Area is resolved and the onslaught of applications that they will get at that time, too. So maybe that's something that we can have some dialogue on at a workshop setting or something like that, that maybe you can get some further feedback from Council. Johnson: Can it be looked on a little bit like Primeland's holdings who have an application approved, they are still participating in the overall plan, they do have other properties that are involved in that. This application was submitted prior. We are not proposing anything that would jeopardize that plan and I don't want to get ahead of myself, because we haven't finalized what we are proposing there, although it is a mixed housing, if you will, type proposal and mixed commercial and other applications in there. It certainly isn't finalized and we will have plenty of time to discuss that. But because we have paid the fees on these applications and we have spent the money to do them, we would like to proceed with it. We are not trying to short-circuit the other process, though. This is simply a request for a zoning and a development agreement that would allow this mixed use development. De Weerd: Within the county, but not within the city. Johnson: I would propose-I am willing to come into the city. We have paid fees for annexation once. Would the city request my annexation? Or, if not, we will-we will go back through that process again, but what would be wrong with annexing it with the zoning and the development agreement in place? Bird: Through the county? With the county development agreement? Meridian City Council Regular Meeb, Ig October 16, 2001 Page 50 Johnson: Yes. Bird: The only thing that really disturbs me is-and I know this letter was written before the thing come-the North Corridor study started and, by the way, it's a public record, Greg was one of the developers to step forward with not only time, but money to get this North Corridor Study going. I'm kind of like the Mayor, as long as I sit on the City Council United Water-and whether it's water or sewer, which they are very capable of running sewer, that is probably their biggest business in the United States, the sewer or water -- will not get into our territory. I know they are already there for the church. And that was probably a mistake on our part. But I also think that the developers have the right to demand from the city a timely and lived-by schedule that when we will supply the deals. And this is what this North Corridor Study going to go and I guess I'm not- not ever done-l never have done a development, I don't know what the advantage would be for you to get the development agreement with the county when you're going to wait for us to get the services out there and I believe that the city will get the services out there on a timely fashion once this study-I realize this North Corridor Study needs to be completed, we don't need to be a two year drag out. I would think that early spring it should be completed with a plan. I hope. What is the advantage-and I'm asking you this, Greg, is What is the advantage for you to go forward with this application, other than you do have money tied up, to get a development agreement with Ada county development and getting -- and get the deal, what's the advantage to you now? Johnson: Once I have the development agreement-and I would be willing to work with city staff to make sure that that development agreement is acceptable with to the city, as well as the county. Once we have that development agreement, then I can begin spending money on a plat, knowing that if I comply with this, the plat is going to be acceptable within these parameters and a plat on this size of a parcel is very expensive. We have to layout water, sewer, basically have all the engineering done up front and I don't want to do that without having the assurance that the governing entities are in agreement that this is the way they'd like see it developed. Bird: Okay. Johnson: Then I could come back to the city for annexation and a preliminary plat and that will probably take as much time as it takes to work out the schedule of services and other things and-I mean we have got a mile and a half of sewer to build there. This is a long project. But before we start building sewer-and I mean we are willing to build the sewer, we are not asking the city to do that, we are willing to go ahead, we'd appreciate your help if you decide to do that, but we are willing to build those trunks, if we can proceed with it. There is one other item that-l know the fire department had expressed an interest in having a site somewhere along Linder. They wanted to be up by Chinden. We don't have any property right up by Chinden. But if they chose to go in that light commercial along Linder, we would be glad to give them an acre and a half lot there along Linder. Meridian City Council Regular Meeu.,g October 16, 2001 Page 51 Bird: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: Greg, I don't know-we can ask Chief Bowers, but I-do you like your stations on intersections or like the one at Ten Mile or up out of the intersection? Bowers: Mayor Corrie, City Council Members, Councilman Keith Bird, no, we do not like them at the intersections. There is too much traffic, too much -- especially if the traffic gets backed up. We cannot have it. So we come back a quarter of a mile or so would be fine. Or like we got on Ten Mile, a half mile. Johnson: This would be the approximate half mile. This section in here, would this be a reasonable location? Bowers: Mayor Corrie, City Council Members, there has already been a couple people come in and talk about different properties, so-and I can't tell you if we've picked any certain property yet or not. Johnson: I'm willing to cooperate if they need it. Bird: And I don't believe they-actually, you guys haven't actually got a designated plan really in place right now of where you need these, Chief Bowers, have you? Bowers: Mayor Corrie, City Council Members, Councilman Keith Bird, we have had several meetings with the EMS, Kent Brown, Ward Wardle, and -- Mike Wardle I believe his name is, and John Wardle, both of them, and we have picked an area on Linder Road a quarter of a mile south of Chinden that we would need a piece of property up in that area. Bird: Okay. That's something that can be worked out. Corrie: Further discussion? Bird: I have nothing else. Corrie: Greg, I don't have any objection to developers putting in sewer lines. I mean that's great. I mean they can get it done faster. But, the thing is, we want to make sure that engineering and everything else is together, because if we don't do it, then we put in a system that's something else, it may not work, so- Johnson: Our intention all along is to have-to follow JUB's plan and have Brad and others review those and to build a system that will drain that whole area all the way back passed Locust Grove there. Corrie: And, again, I thank you for saying that you wished this letter hadn't been written. Meridian City Council Regular Mee'"lg October 16, 2001 Page 52 Johnson: You know, I have not read this. I'm sorry that it's kind of worded strongly and- Corrie: I understand. Bird: Well, let's put it this way, Greg. You aren't the first letter that we have seen like that. Maybe it was your letter. But it was enough that the Mayor and myself and Gary had a little meeting with United Water. As long as I sit on this Council they are not getting in our impact area anymore. They have got one line and that's the limit. Johnson: I understand that. There has been certain things in my life that I have drawn a line in the sand on and I understand that. Corrie: They play by different rules. You know that. Johnson: I don't like to pay the water fees either. Corrie: I understand. Any other questions- Bird: I have none. Corrie: -- or discussion on this? Bird: I have none. Corrie: All right. Thank you very much for your input. I believe that we have some time-something has to be stated to the City-County Planning and Zoning; is that correct? Stiles: I need to get a letter to them tomorrow, even if it's just requesting delay. Corrie: Okay. Council, what do you want to do? What's your pleasure on that one? Bird: When is it scheduled, Shari? Stiles: Next- Bird: What's the hearing date? Stiles: Next Thursday. Bird: The 25th? Then when would the next meeting be? Stiles: Probably November- Meridian City Council Regular Meetlllg October 16, 2001 Page 53 Bird: The week before Thanksgiving or the week after? Stiles: I think it's the week of thanksgiving. Bird: Thanksgiving is on a Thursday. Stiles: Yes. Bird: So it can't be on Thursday. Stiles: Well, I'm not sure. They will decide when they have their meeting. But staff has told me that they are recommending it be continued as well. Corrie: Okay. What is your thinking? Should we table this? Stiles: They still don't have the response from Ada County Highway District either. Corrie: Yes. Stiles: That's what Nichole Baird at Ada county told me yesterday. Bird: Ada county is hearing this tomorrow at noon on this request? We don't have time to get a letter in anyway. It's tomorrow. Tomorrow at noon. Stiles: It's the Highway District that's meeting tomorrow. Bird: Oh, the Highway District? De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I guess the letters that we have written in the past would certainly apply quadru pie anyth ing that-you know, because of the size of this project and, you know, I really am-I guess I have my heels dug into the sand on my position as far as applying to the county and having the county approve a development of this size, whether it's just the development agreement or not, this certainly isn't their purview, it's the City of Meridian's and their area of impact. I think that the elected officials are all committed to this North Corridor Plan and I am like Councilman Bird, I would like to see it happen in a timely fashion. I do understand your concern and you have been at this far before this North Corridor. In fact, your application might be even promoted the need for it. So I don't know if this was a first-in-line type of thing, but I certainly think it's something that the city needs to talk about as well. So I would go on record, though, to say I am opposed to the city supporting this application to the county. And I think that staff needs to reflect that and cite many of the same reasons that we did on our other county Meridian City Council Regular Meeullg October 16, 2001 Page 54 applications and go forth in that direction and it's certainly not against you, Greg, to have this brought back into the jurisdiction that it belongs in. Corrie: Okay. Any other comments? McCandless: Tammy said it all. Corrie: Okay. Then-Shari? Stiles: Mr. Mayor and Council, could I have until November-your November- Corrie: 20th? De Weerd: 7th? Stiles: I'd love the 20th, but- Corrie: That's just the word I heard, so -- De Weerd: November 7th? Stiles: November ih to get a draft letter to you. De Weerd: And to the applicant? Stiles: Well, the letter should be ratified by the Council, but the letter I will write her tomorrow is just indicating that if you-if that's what your decision is, that you oppose the project and will recommend denial, but you need further time to review this application. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: Perhaps this is also a discussion item we can have on November 13th at our workshop and further explore it. Corrie: Have it the 13th, rather than the ih? Or the 7th and then- De Weerd: Yes. Bird: Yes. De Weerd: Well, you know, regardless, I think the letter is going to remain the same. I mean we will oppose this going through the county. I think the workshop on the 13th Meridian City Council Regular Meeting October 16, 2001 Page 55 would be more how we can work with this applicant and talk about some of the issues that he raised tonight. Bird: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: As I understand what Shari wants right now is just a letter asking for a postponement to a deal and I don't-l feel that that's all we need to do. I'm for-I'm for discussing this on the 13th and getting a letter prepared at that time. I will be very up front if we-if we are not going to be-after this North Corridor study is done and we- we are not going to be timely, then I'm going to probably be more on the side of the developers that need something like this, even as bad as I hate to say that, but this is a chance for us to go out and prove what we are working to do and get us a good planned development out there in a timely fashion. These gentlemen-and this developer is not the only one that's got a lot of money tied up out there, they are paying interest on it, and they need to see some returns. And that's all I would say. Just ask for the delay and then the 13th we can discuss it and we can write the letter at that point. That's my thing. De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I think that-whatever his name is-has-we'd like to ask for the extension right now-right now and the letter that we would talk about on November ih would be the recommendation to deny it at the county level. The discussion at the workshop would be how we go about working with the- Bird: That's a hundred percent right. That's right. The 7th would be the -- De Weerd: And, You know, and I would agree with you. This North Corridor Planning is an opportunity for both the city and the development community and once that is put in place we have to be prepared to move forward, so- Corrie: And I echo that sincerely, but two things that we got to keep in mind. We are planning on this to be done in this ten year period and we got the area of impact from the county that we would put this in and we want to make sure that we do it and plan for it and do it right. Whether it costs the developer more money or not, that's not our goal. I mean we didn't ask the developer to buy that land ahead of time, but-and it may sound like a harsh thing, but it's true. But our main objective is to make sure we have that plan and we follow through with what we say we are going to do and I think if we don't, then we are the ones that are going to get taken to the woodshed. But as far as the developers buying the land, I mean that's their prerogative, they knew that going into it. So that's what I say, we want to do it in a timely manner and do it right-as soon as I get through we will go on to something else. I said that before and I'm going to say Meridian City Council Regular Meeting October 16, 2001 Page 56 it again and we need to get on with the program. So at that point, then, you have got your marching orders, I guess, Shari, on that one. We'll talk afterwards, Greg. Item 9. Agreement for the Reappointment of City Attorney, the Provision of Legal Services and for Payment of Attorney Fees and Costs. Corrie: The next one is the agreement for reappointment of the city attorney, the provision of the legal service, and payment for attorney fees and costs. Mr. Nichols, you have the floor. Nichols: Mr. Mayor, would you like me to go down to the podium or from the podium to- Corrie: You can sit there. I can hear you. De Weerd: I'd like to see you on your knees when you do your presentation. Nichols: I was on my knees a lot before I drafted the presentation. Corrie: Pretty concise. Nichols: The agreement is not much different than what was there before and I did give you a cover letter, which outlined the differences, the changes in the proposed retainer agreement, where we are at. Just kind of review who we have and what's you're getting with these services. And in addition to my services on the civil end we also have Dave Swartley who covers at least one of the Planning and Zoning meetings every month. On the prosecution end we have Larry Moore, who is an experienced prosecutor and Jill Jurries handling the prosecution duties. And as needed we have other lawyers, typically young lawyers from the Nampa office come over and fill in when somebody's ill. If we need coverage we have the ability to do that. We have Chris and I who handles the judicial review suits and then some of the other lawyers in the office handle some of the other litigation-type matters as they come up. so although I may be the face you see at most of the Council meetings, there is certainly a lot of people that this covers. And so most of the-like I say, most of the items there are covered in that letter and I'm ready and willing to answer any questions you might have. Bird: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I'd like to make one statement. I believe that this was probably the most beneficial thing that the city did. Four years later their bill to us is 35,000 less than 1997 or '98 fiscal year proposed budget by our in-house attorneys and it's something like maybe 15,000 more than their '97 budget. I, for one, believe that we have got-we have gotten over the last two years superior -- superior law work and I credit that all to Mr. Nichols. And I think they have stepped up the service-the legal service for the City Meridian City Council Regular Meetlllg October 16,2001 Page 57 of Meridian to make it first class. And if there is no more discussion I would move that we accept this agreement with White, Peterson, Morrow, Gigray, Rossman, Nye, Rossman and Nichols. De Weerd: Second. Corrie: Okay. Motion made and seconded. Any discussion? De Weerd: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. de Weerd. De Weerd: I would just like to ditto what Councilman Bird said. I came on-I had served before I got on the Council and certainly had concerns and since Mr. Nichols has been the face we have had at this level, it's, indeed, been an extreme pleasure working with him and been very satisfied with their services. I would have a question to staff. If they have any comments that impact a couple of member's budgets and I just want to make sure you have no comment. Stiles: And how would that impact me for my department? De Weerd: We want to make sure you have got it budgeted. I know you too good. But do you have anything you want to add? Stiles: Is that shown on his request there? De Weerd: No. I checked with Stacy. Bird: We put it all in the Planning and Zoning budget. Stiles: Okay. I guess my fees will have to go up on again. Corrie: What she told me today it sounds okay. Stiles: Oh, yes. Yes. Pretty good. So, yes, Bill's done a great job for us. He's been very responsive and we really appreciate all his work. Nichols: Thank you. Smith: Mr. Mayor and Council, I'd echo what Shari's just said. It's been a real joy and pleasure to work with Bill Nichols and I also enjoyed working with Bill Gigray, as long as you have the time. Bill does like to talk and-but having Bill Nichols here has been a real joyful experience and one thing that I always appreciated is his good common sense approach to problems and he's got a good thought process and I'd just say thank you, Bill, for all your help you have given to me and the Public Works department. Meridian City Council Regular Meeting October 16, 2001 Page 58 Nichols: Thank you, Gary. Corrie: Any other comments? McCandless: Mr. Mayor. Corrie: Mrs. McCandless. McCandless: I can't add anything to what's been said, really, it's just that I've sure enjoyed working with him and thank you for all you have done for us. We appreciate it. Corrie: Bill, I guess I'm the last one. You're not going to get away with anything here. I believe that Rush Limbaugh on his program had a saying that dittos and what more can I say but double dittos. You've done a great job, Bill, and so has your firm and I think that the Council is ready to show you that this is approved by them and we will get a unanimous decision for you here. Nichols: Thank you. De Weerd: Most people get this only at their funeral. Nichols: I appreciate that, Councilwoman de Weerd. Corrie: All right. With that being said, motion has been made and seconded to approve the legal of White, Peterson, Morrow, Gigray, Rossman, Nye and Rossman, PA. Bird: No. You got to add Nye, Rossman, and Nichols. He is now a partner. Corrie: Nye, Rossman-okay. Bird: We'll make sure that's on there. Corrie: We want to make sure that that's on there, so our stenographer will certainly get it all on there, so-any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion say aye. Opposed no? All ayes. Motion has been carried. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT. Nichols: Thank you, Mayor and CounciL Corrie: Thank you. Departments heads. I would like to request Council to go into executive session for a couple items that I have in relationship on the contracts, so if you so desire we can be out of here in probably five minutes. Bird: Mr. Mayor. Meridian City Council Regular Meeting October 16, 2001 Page 59 Corrie: Mr. Bird. Bird: I move that we go into executive session, according to Idaho State Code 67- 2345@ -- I think it was. Corrie: I think you're right. It is C. Bird: Yes. Or-yes. We will go with that. Corrie: Okay. All in favor? MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT. Corrie: Okay. We will go into executive session. (Executive Session.) Corrie: Okay. I'll entertain a motion to come out of executive session. De Weerd: So move. Bird: Second. Corrie: Motion made and seconded. All in favor say aye. MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT. Corrie: Let the record show no decisions were agreed to at the executive session. So with that I will entertain a motion to close at 10: 1 0 the regular City Council meeting-or come out of executive session. Bird: We have already come out. De Weerd: We already came out. Corrie: We did come out. Bird: Yes. We made the motion to come out and now we need to adjourn. Corrie: So be it. Bird: Cherie, it's your turn. Make a motion to adjourn before Tammy gets on one of her oratories. McCandless: So move. Meridian City Council Regular Meeting October 16, 2001 Page 60 Corrie: Motion made. Do I hear a second? Bird: I second it. Corrie: Motion and seconded. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried. Thank you. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 10:10 P.M. (TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) APPROVED: (I / 7 / tJ ( DATE APPROVED \\\, H.I t'.>"., .,....,. \\<,\" Of ~i/,,::- . .':- l'8>;,;o:'A;t~' STED: ~4:-~~ 9- ~' GE,fl:L ): WILLIAM G. BERG, JR.;CI'(Y CLERK ~'j'; /) .... \ "1~~l}r 1~/)~) ~~',,~;,~~ ~':;;~"_ v., 'f)\' ~ ,,'!" ,- " . -