Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAboutOctober 17, 2002Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Mee[ing October 17, 2002 Page 13 of 76 Zaremba: They give birth sometimes. Borup: Okay. Do we need a revote on that motion or was that just a clarification? Zaremba: It's a different motion. Borup: We have a different motion. Do we have a second? Centers: Yes. Borup: All in favor? Any opposed? MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Item 6. Public Hearing: CUP 02-029 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a Childcare facility for 12-24 children in an R-15 zone for Joni R. West by Joni R. West - 923 East 4th Street: Borup: Okay. Thank you. Okay. Item Number 6, Public Hearing CUP 02-029, request Conditional Use Permit for childcare facility for 12 to 24 children in an R-15 zone for Joni West by Joni West, at 923 East 4th Street. I'd like to open the Public Hearing at this time and start with the staff report. McKinnon: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission. Move forward through to the site plan. As noted in the staff report, the property is located at 923 East 4th Street. That's the bolded area on the site plan in front of you. It's right adjacent to the alley on 4th Street. A couple pictures of the site. This is a -- was what would be -- it was asingle-family residential home and the proposed use now is to not have anybody live in the home, but to convert this to a full-time child care facility for 12 to 24 children. In the R-15 zone, such a d ay care u se would require a Conditional Use P ermit and that's why it's in front of you at this time. I assume you have read the staff report. If you have any questions about the staff report, I would be happy to answer those at the end of my staff report. This piece of property is currently in what would be considered the older town. of Meridian. It's not Old Town zone, but according to the new Comprehensive Plan, should there be a request for it to go Old Town on a rezone, it would be allowed to go to the Old Town zoning designation. As such, this is an old site and a fairly old home in an existing neighborhood the property itself was never established with any garage or any on-site parking. The site right now is devoid of any parking at all. The site photo that you see in front of you at this time is indicating with the arrow where the applicant would like to propose a driveway that would be 80 feet in length, approximately 15 feet wide. The driveway would be immediately adjacent to the property that is being used currently for asingle-family residence -- residential unit on the right-hand side of the photo. The applicant has not proposed any landscape buffer for the neighbor adjacent to the parking. If you can turn to Page 2 of the staff report, you will see that the parking was brought up as far as the number of parking spaces required for off-site parking. According to our code, it would be a requirement for four Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting October 17, 2002 Page 14 of 76 regular parking stalls, plus one handicapped stall, for a total of five parking spaces where none currently exist. The landscaping buffer -- I'll address two issues on that. With this photo right h ere, a s you can see on -- I'll grab Bruce's laser pointer. The proposed driveway is on the right-hand side of this site plan. To the north of his property is asingle-family dwelling, and, again, to the east of the property is a single- family dwelling. There is no landscape buffer between the single-family dwellings on either side for this use. There is a small distance with a deck and then some sand area and some sand area, a tree, and no landscape buffer and just an existing fence that's at that location. Again, as you can see, the proposed driveway. A couple things to point out with the driveway is it's an 80-foot driveway and it's only 15 feet wide. Any vehicle that's parked h ere, here, here or here will have difficulties ingressing and egressing, based on cars being behind it or in front of it trying to get out. It would be staffs opinion appropriate to allow parking in this location if there was a landscape buffer and if it was tandem parking, but not allowing a full four vehicles, especially people picking up and dropping off children. That would become problematic. On this proposed site plan you will notice that there is no sidewalk that is proposed by the applicant at this location. The Meridian city code requires that afive-foot sidewalk be installed at this location, where none is proposed. Ada County Highway District, in their review of this application, d id n of require, as part of their requirements, afive-foot sidewalk at this location, that's strictly a City of Meridian requirement. In ACHD's report for this project they also did not require the asphalting of the alley. The alley is an unimproved alley at this time. However, the applicant is not proposing any parking off the alley and ACHD does not believe that there would be any additional increase of use on the alley. Based on the fact that this site plan essentially does not provide a buffer to either of the single- family dwellings that are immediately adjacent to it, nor does it provide enough parking per the requirements of the code, we cannot, as you will note in our recommendation, recommend approval. It's not to say that the City of Meridian would not support such a use at this location, but some modifications may need to be made to the site plan to make it appear to meet the intent of the ordinance. Some landscape buffering, some on-site parking that would be appropriate. There are some things that can be done to bring this into compliance with the ordinance. It's not a lost cause, but based on what was submitted to us, we cannot recommend approval, because it does not meet the intent, or the letter of the ordinance. With that, I'd ask if there are any questions? Borup: Questions from the Commission? Mathes: I have a question. How many kids can go in 768 square feet? Twenty-four seems like a lot. McKinnon: The numbers of kids that are allowed within that are based on one child for every 35 square feet and in that 35 square foot calculation, you do have to take out bathrooms and other non-inhabitable areas from that calculation. If we were to take a rough estimate of 768, divide that by 35, talking about approximately 21.9 children so 21. Like I said, you would have to -- Zaremba: That's without deducting bathrooms -- Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting October 17, 2002 Page 15 of 76 McKinnon: That's without deducting bathrooms and other non-inhabitable areas, you know, closets and utility closets, that type of thing, has to be deducted from that. The number of 24 may be higher than what would be allowed. Those are regulated by state regulations. Zaremba: Yes. Borup: Seven hundred feet would be 20, so it would be 20 or less Zaremba: On Page 5, under site specific requirements, you mentioned -- Item Number 5, you mentioned the fence. For other day care, childcare facilities, we have added that it's anon-sight-obscuring fence. Does that need to be considered here? McKinnon: No. I think vve are actually okay with the type of fence that they have put up. One of the problems with -- possible with the fence is that the fence, I believe, was constructed without a permit. That's the type of fencing that would be appropriate. We have allowed this type of day care use with that type of fencing. Zaremba: They would have to do the paperwork and get the permit before occupancy would be -- McKinnon: That's correct. Zaremba: Let's see. That's all I have for staff. Borup: Questions from the other Commissioners for staff? Is the applicant here and would like to make their presentation? West: I'll state my name. Joni W est. My address is 2132 W est Chateau Drive in Meridian. I do have a permit for the fence and I have the approval code from the city on that, so we did meet all the requirements that were asked of us on that. We don't -- my daughter and I want to open the day care. She's pregnant right now, we wanted to provide a day care where she could stay home, and we could provide day care service for other kids, too. We searched for a long time to try to find a house that was in an area zoned for it, because there are a lot of restrictions. If you get in the newer subdivisions, they have the covenants and nobody wants to let you in there and so we did check this out before we bought it to make sure that we were in an area that was zoned to be, you know, commercial day care. There was a day care across the street from us that was licensed and she has now closed, last month she closed down, so we feel that they are not really -- we are not adding anymore traffic or anymore, you know, anything to the neighborhood that wasn't already there. She had I believe up to 12 kids in hers and they had -- from what we saw it didn't seem like a lot traffic all the time. We were over there working on the house a lot and it wasn't a lot of traffic picking up the kids. There is just one day care closing down and a nother o ne opening across t he street, so we are hoping that wouldn't be a problem. We didn't want to have 24 kids. I know we are not even -- we don't have the square footage for it. We planned on maybe Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting October 17, 2002 Page 16 of 76 12 to 16, but when we applied for it, they said to put 12 to 24, so we probably would never have that many anyways, but that was our plan. We didn't do any remodeling. I know one of the letters that you got said we are remodeled without a permit and the house was completely remodeled when we bought it. The only thing we had to do on the inside was we painted halfway up and put wallpaper in. Everything else was completely remodeled, inside and outside, the siding was already up, and everything was up. I didn't know about the permit for the fence and when he told me, I did go get one, and so, you know, they did come and approve and say everything was up to code. We only intend to be open Monday through Friday from 7:00 to 6:00, so there wouldn't really be any noise at night or on the weekends for any of the neighbors. There wouldn't be anybody, you know, there during that time, so we -- that's why we thought this would be a good location. The school bus from the Meridian Elementary School has a drop off right in front of the house, so the kids could be picked up at school and dropped off right there at a safe place. It was a good location, we thought, when we bought it and that's our intentions for it. Borup: Questions from any of the Commissioners? Centers:' Mr. Chairman. Mrs. West -- and while I think of it, is Meridian Elementary at the end of 4th or is it 3'd or 2nd.? West: It's Pine and 1sc Centers: Okay. I was wrong all three times. When you bought the property you bought it with the full intent of putting a day care there? West: Yes. Centers: Did you check with the city before you signed an agreement? West: Yes and they said we were zoned for it and since there was a day care across the street, we probably shouldn't have too much trouble getting that in. Centers: Whom did you talk to? West: To Dave. Centers: Let me continue, Dave. Did they give you the requirements that would be necessary to -- so it would meet our day care facility requirements and landscape buffer, parking, et cetera, et cetera? West: Not to the degree that it was after. When we first went down and did it -- I'm sorry. We got the wrong the impressions of it. We thought we were told that we needed to fix everything and then come back and apply for the permit, because we tried to go down and apply for a permit and they said you needed to -- Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting October 17, 2002 Page 17 of 76 Centers: What permit? The fence, you mean? West: No. No. To get a day care -- yes. They were -- a Conditional Use and then we explained what we were going to do and they said that they thought we would be able to get an Accessory Use Permit and have five kids there while it was pending, so that was our intentions to do that. Well, then we went, we put the fence -- you know, we fixed it up, put the swings -- we got everything ready, went back to apply for the permit and then they said, oh, that we didn't -- they know that we didn't qualify for an Accessory Use Permit. We don't have any kids there and we had -- I have rented it out to someone right now temporarily until this gets resolved and so we -- we were under the impression that we were zoned for it. Centers: Well, you're not necessarily zoned you're in an area where a Conditional Use Permit would be allowed. West: Right. Centers: If you meet the CUP requirements. West: Right. Centers: Nothing was given to you in writing, so -- I think the bottom line here is nothing definite was told -- West: Right. Right. Centers: And you bought it? You own it? You're on the title? West: Right and the mortgage company, yes. Centers: Yes but you didn't buy it subject to obtaining the necessary permit from the City of Meridian? West: No. No. We -- you know, we did come up with a different plan as far as parking, because after we -- when I read what they had written about -- that this was not, you know, a real good area to do it. We came up with some options that maybe the parking in the front, we could take the grass area out and park in front, that way there would be no noise to the neighbors. You wouldn't need the buffer zone or anything, because you would have parking -- we thought maybe that if you put the parking in the front, instead along the side of the house --and we can put the sidewalk either in the front or closer to the house in front of the parking. There wouldn't need to be a driveway along the side, there wouldn't be any noise to the neighbors on the side or the back. That was what we came up with as far as an option to it. You know, I understand the situation. I thoughl we could put in a fence either along the side where they want and then if they want a buffer -- I mean they know there is not enough room to do the car, but we could put the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting October 17, 2002 Page 18 of 76 buffer on the other side, if the neighbor would like to have bushes on his side, we could pay to put it on that side. Centers: How long have you been in discussions with Dave or the people in the planning area? West: Originally, we bought the house in May and that was when we went the first time and then, like I said, we were under the impression we were supposed to fix all of these things and then come back and apply for a permit, which we went back in August to apply. Then I had a meeting with them and we actually sat down and discussed all these things, which we had never been -- we didn't know we had a meeting with them and discussed all this before, so we -- Centers: Did you read the report? West: Yes. Centers: Okay so they pretty much told you these things in your last meeting? West: They told us that, but he thought -- I thought that you would tell us what you would like us to do, because they said don't anything until we decide what you felt was appropriate, because I didn't want to go put in a driveway and do all these things if it's not what you wanted, so -- Centers: Right. West: -- as I said, we would do it after, if we found something that was acceptable Centers: Right. Okay West: But we are willing to definitely work on what it would take to make this acceptable for their terms. Borup: Mrs. West, you said you thought you had to take -- you had to fix everything up before you could apply. What were you referring to? Earlier you said you didn't fix anything up. West: Well, like putting in the fence and having everything ready to be in use, because they told us that we had to have the Fire Department and the Health Department and everyone had to come out and inspect everything and that we had to have their approval. We thought it meant we had to be ready to -- whatever it was going to be, ready to open is what they wanted to see. We put the fence up and got, you know, the yard and everything ready. We put the furniture in and had it what -- you know, put up the exit signs and -- that's what we thought we were supposed to do was get it all ready for them to come out and approve it and so that's what we spent our time doing. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting October 17, 2002 Page 19 of 76 Borup: Mr. Zaremba, did you have a -- Zaremba: I was going to ask staff if a copy of this made it over to you. Okay. Is it a workable solution to put the parking in the front yard? McKinnon: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, there is a few things that I would offer on this site plan without having a chance to review it in depth. The three- foot sidewalk, which is slightly above no sidewalk, it still doesn't meet the requirements, but that's something that could be workable. The dimensions of 19 feet with the grass, there could be some discussion about overhang if there was some overhang you would have that. As a note of preference, not necessarily something that's specific to the City Code, replacing all the landscaping and landscaped area with asphalt does not help the visual appearance of this. If some of the parking could possibly be placed off of the alley directing -- West: There is not -- there isn't any parking available from the alley, because if we came in the back of the house, it would be too close to the house. We only have 10 feet between the house and the fence. Borup: Your site plan shows 24 feet between the alley and the house. West: No from the house to the fence behind us where the deck is. Borup: Right. West: It is 24 feet across. It's not -- eight feet from the deck to the back fence. If you came in off the street -- the alley behind it, you would -- are you saying towards the front of the house or the back of the house? Borup: Well, I think what Dave is maybe saying is having parking along this area here, coming in from the alley, turning in here, and parking. West: Oh. Okay along the back of the house. Borup: Is that what you were referring to? McKinnon: That's what I was referring to. Zaremba: That eliminates all outside play area. West: Yes. McKinnon: Then you open up the driveway. Borup: Then this would have to go to play area on this side. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting October 17, 2002 Page 20 of 76 McKinnon: Counter point to that. This site plan I have got in front of me right now has a really wide -- that's a really wide driveway. ACHD may not want to have it that wide open with that many parking spaces directly backing out into 4th Street all at the same time, because that's backing out directly onto a public street, rather than to an alley area and I think ACHD would have fits with that. West: We could just do four, though, because we don't really need six. I think we just drew it that way on the -- because we couldn't have more than 20 kids anyway, because of the size of the house. I think we need one parking space per 10 children and then one per worker. That would leave us four. If we have four in the front, we could do that and put buffers around the sides, maybe, to make it more attractive. McKinnon: It's definitely workable. Centers: You get four from here to here, 42 feet, four times nine is 36, and then you could get one here. West: Yes and they are the same -- and we don't have that on the map, but where it says sand, there is a huge swing and slide place, but we could move it to the other side. Centers: And then, you know, put a fence here and have one parking space and then add the other four back there. I think the area needs a day care. We can't push -- in my opinion, speaking out loud, we can't push it through tonight with what you have there. West: Right. Centers: But what we can show you is what may get through. West: Sure. Centers: But that, I think, would work, wouldn't it, Dave? McKinnon: Yes. West: Could we try to keep them more on the grass pointing inward, so it wouldn't have to take away the play area in the back? Could we keep the cars parked more to the front? Yes. Where it says grass on the bottom part and keeps the cars pointing in that way? Centers: Well, you're going to need four and one is five. Staff had said five would be adequate. Borup: That was with 24 -- 24 children, not 20 Centers: Oh. Okay. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting October 17, 2002 Page 21 of 76 West: We can't have 24. Borup: The new calculation would be four. Centers: Yes. Okay but you know you can't have them backing out onto the street. I don't think you can have -- other than one residence. Have one -- West: Right. Are you completely opposed to the four, then, along the driveway if we put a fence and -- so that would not be a good way to go, then? Centers: Well, you can recommend it be tandem parking. I don't know. West: You can actually put two in the back, because it's a wider area to the -- you can fit two cars in the back, so then there would only be two ahead of the staff that would have to be coming in and out. Zaremba: The difficulty with having your parking on the north side of the building is that you leave no possibility of a landscape buffer or any other kind of a buffer to your neighbor. Having them enter off of the alley was much more attractive. West: Okay. Right so the best bet would be to go with the parking on the grass area, then, like from the side coming in from the alley? Could we keep it in the front, though, so the kids could keep the back area or -- where it's fenced in that -- Borup: Well, I think you would probably need some separation from the road and some type of -- West: Oh. Okay. Because they only have to be nine feet wide, right? McKinnon: That's correct. Zaremba: Just for the effort of turning in and out, I would think even if you move forward on the property, the first stall would have to start like here, it couldn't start right along the street line. West: Okay. Zaremba: Because a car needs some room to move in and out. West: Move in and out. Okay. Centers: How wide is that alley? McKinnon: I believe it's 16 feet wide. Centers: See, that way you get to utilize the alley. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting October 17, 2002 Page 22 of 76 West: Yes. Centers: I think it makes more sense to put the parking off the alley. West: Sure. That's great. McKinnon: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, if I might, one of the requirements of this application is a site specific of requirement -- I believe it's Item Number 2, that stated that a revised landscaping and parking plan should be submitted at least ten days prior to the next Public Hearing. It sounds like Mrs. West here has the ideas that we are going with and she could submit that and we could just continue this until the next available Public Hearing where she has an opportunity to submit a new plan. We can work with -- it sounds like I have got ideas where you're going with the parking off the alley. ACHD would have to review that again. They may say you pave the alley, but not if you're not paving the driveway, the driveway is 15 feet wide and the alley is 16 feet wide, you're not out much more in paving. Is that the direction that we are going at this time? Zaremba: That was my sense of what we are doing. I do have one other question before we move on. McKinnon: Okay. Zaremba: And I'm -- either the applicant or staff can answer this, if they can. In the actual photograph that you had, down in this corner was a pretty sizable tree stump. Do we know how recently that tree was taken out? West: Well, they made us -- well, it grew up through the power lines, and so I called everybody, city, county, highway, Idaho Power, and they said I had to remove it. They all said it was my responsibility, so we had to have someone come and cut it down and that's as far as he could get it and now we need to get it to tree stump removal to take that out. Zaremba: So my question to staff, then. Does that have to be mitigated as a tree that's been removed? McKinnon: If it was a nuisance tree -- West: It was dead. McKinnon: Excuse me. If it was a nuisance tree, it does not have to be mitigated for. Zaremba: Okay. West: That was what I was kind of leading onto to see what you guys wanted to do before we got it all plowed down. Meddian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting October 17, 2002 Page 23 of 76 Rohm: Mr. Chairman? Joni, is it a hardship for you to go back to the planners and redesign the layout, incorporating your parking off the alley, and then bring it back before this board again? West: Do we have to wait another two months or can it get in sooner? I mean it would be -- if we could get in sooner it would be great. McKinnon: Joni, the Commission sets their agenda, so they can move this to the next available meeting. The typical standard is that they move it to the second meeting of the next month, so that would move it to whatever the November second meeting might be. That's the typical procedure. West: I mean it would be good if we could go sooner, just because we are losing a lot of money if it's sitting there -- I'm renting it for half the amount of the payment, but if that's what it takes, that's -- you know, it's not a problem. We would be happy to modify the plan and that sounds like the way to go. Borup: It looks like the plan would probably need to be reviewed by ACHD and staff and there would need to be some time in there, so -- West: Okay. Borup: Just to get through that process. West: Okay. Borup: It looks like you're proposing -- are you trying to work out a design with three parking off the alley and one in -- West: In the front? Zaremba: Where the stump is? West: Okay. Borup: Or even -- I mean the other option would be two off the alley and two tandem on the -- McKinnon: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, they could just do all four off the alley. Borup: Right. You have got at least three options. Four off the alley, three on the alley, or two on the alley and two on the other driveway. Zaremba: I probably would not promote the two and two, just for the very reason that we are adding more cars backing onto the real street. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting October 17, 2002 Page 24 of 76 Borup: I guess I'm assuming that the two would be the employee parking. West: And that would be put all day sitting. Borup: Okay. That's Commissioner Zaremba's preference. Any other questions from any of the Commissioners? Zaremba: Not at this time. Borup: We may have some more questions before we close the hearing West: Okay. Thank you. Borup: Do we have anyone else that would like to testify on this? Come forward, please. Day: I'm Debbie Day and I live at 404 East Pine and we are kitty-corner from where she's at for the day care. We are actually right there. We are very opposed to this day care. For one thing, when the other lady shut down her day care, we understood that our area was not a commerciallyzoned area that itwas residential. We don't know when it was changed to commercial or if it even has been. We fought her traffic on a daily basis for dropping off and picking up her children and if she is proposing 20 children to be at her day care and on allowing her two spots to park, where are the other t8 people going to be parking when they drop off their children? In our -- all of the surrounding people's parking area is where they will be working. The noise factor is a factor, but mainly our -- my biggest complaint right now is parking, because I know I had to fight on a daily basis to keep my parking area clear, so I could come and go as I please. We have already noticed when they were working over there that they did take up parking that we use for their vehicles. We are just really opposed to it. It also -- I understood, too, if it's a commercial business you also have to have a handicapped parking spot. Where is that one going to go? You also have to have the doors widened for handicapped, if I'm not mistaken. I might be wrong, but I'm not sure on that. I don't know how the safety features and that goes, but all I know is personally I am very opposed to this day care going in around me, because I am a residential area, not commercial. That's all. Zaremba: Can you direct me -- tell up or down -- this is you right? Day: Right. We have that whole lot. Zaremba: Where was the other day care? Here? Day: Right there. Right -- and they actually -- they would drop off and pick up their children and block the alleyway. I mean that was a daily basis. They would park by our house, you know -- I mean it was like we had go out ask people to move in order to be able to park our own cars and we shouldn't have to do that. Meddian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting October 17, 2002 Page 25 of 76 Zaremba: Did they have any parking on their property or were they all parking on the street? Day: All parking on the street. Well, their car parked in their driveway and everybody else was parked on the street so that's a big concern for us. Borup: So you had to go ask them to move their cars? This is people dropping off children or-- Day: Picking up, dropping off their children, because you just don't run in and run out, I mean you talk with the day care provider, you say bye to your kids, you know, and I just -- I get tired of waiting for people and I would just have to go ask them to move. Borup: So you could get out of the alley? Day: Yes. Get out of my own driveway. Borup: Or out of your driveway? Day: Right. Right and so what I'm saying is if you're allowing her two places to park and she's going to have up to 18 kids, I don't see where the other people are going to be parking to drop off and pick their kids up. Borup: It sounds like the other one had no place to park. Day: She really didn't and she was in-home also, so she didn't run it as a business and she didn't -- I don't believe she had 12 kids, because she had four of her own or three of her own, so those were included in her combined group, is what I understood from her. Borup: Okay. Any other questions? Centers: Yes. Ma'am, how long had that other day care been there? Day: You know I'm not sure. I really don't know. Centers: Before you were there? Day: No. They came in after us. Centers: Well, would you have an estimate how long they had been there? Day: I'm guessing maybe three or four years. They were there maybe five. I don't believe it was that long. Centers: How long have you lived where you're at? Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting October 17, 2002 Page 26 of 76 Day: Since 1989. Centers: Okay. You mentioned that this applicant took some of your parking? Day: Yes, they would -- well, they would drop their kids off, and then they would park while they were -- Centers: No. I mean the applicant tonight. Day: Oh, they would park along the side of our yard when they would go to work on their house and so we would have to go -- we would have to go by -- my son would have to go and he would have to drive around. I know that's street property it's just common courtesy, too, that you let the people that live in the house park their cars there. Centers: And as far as 18 children, that hasn't been approved. If I'm not mistaken, the applicant was looking more at 12, something like that. Day: She said 12 to 20. But, again, two parking spots, that still leaves 10 more people dropping off children. Another thing, we did not get a notice about this hearing tonight. We understood that 41 letters were sent out, we know of three people that got them of our -- because we went almost door to door asking people and there were three people that got letters notifying about this meeting. We don't know what happened to the other 38, but we didn't receive a notice. Smith: Mr. Chairman, if I may. I did not receive anything in return mail on this project and we did make phone calls -- my staff did call and verify with several property owners and they did receive them, as well as several who didn't. I am sorry but I don't have an explanation. I know they were sent. Day: So it looks like there is 37 letters are out there floating around somewhere. McKinnon: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, just one item to add to that. Oftentimes what happens is we send the letters to the actual owner of the property and if there are rental people in a building, they do not receive notification, because the notification goes to the owner of the property. Day: I believe maybe there is one or two rentals and the rest are owners. McKinnon: From time to time that becomes a situation that someone says I live right next door and I never had it. It's because it went to the owner, not the renter so sometimes this does come up. Day: That's all I have got. Borup: Thank you. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting October 17, 2002 Page 27 of 76 Dickerson: I'm Byron Dickerson-and I live just west of this house that they are planning on having the day care in it. From the patio -- from the -- would you show the picture up there again? From the deck it's about 13 or 14 feet to my property line and on the other side of my property line we have a patio where we -- it's a -- we have chairs and tables out there and we eat our evening meal out there a lot of the time. Right now they have a fence up, but the boards are -- have shrunk and there is that much space between them and the sand is blowing in on our patio. I feel like being a citizen of Meridian and a resident of that a rea, that we should h ave some kind of rights and I a m d efinitely against a day care center. I've lived there for 26 years and I've gotten along with the Neighbors and Iwould -- I understood that we were to get a notification of this meeting and I understood that they sent out 42 letters. We didn't get one and we live right there next to it. We are the closest one to that property and I think we have been ignored. Borup: You're at 331 East State? Dickerson: What was that? Borup: 331 East State? Is that your address? Dickerson: Yes 331 East State. Borup: There was a letter sent to that address. Dickerson: There was no letter sent there. Borup: There was a letter sent. You may not have received it, but there was a letter sent. Dickerson: How come we didn't receive it? What's the matter? Is it the fault of the Post Office or the fault of the Planning and Zoning? I went to Planning and Zoning right in the beginning when these people first talked about making a day care and he promised me that they wouldn't -- you could -- within 300 feet of the residence, that I'm only 15 feet from it. Rohm: Well, sir, with no disrespect, it appears as if you are having your opportunity to speak your mind and that's what these hearings are for. At this point in time, you have not been injured by anything, because you got your opportunity here, so we appreciate your testimony and then certainly it will be -- Dickerson: I hope my testimony will be taken into consideration. Rohm: Yes. Obviously, it is. Dickerson: Okay. Borup: Thank you, sir. Do we have anyone else? Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting October 17, 2002 Page 28 of 76 Letz: M y n ame i s L arty L etz. C ould y ou p ut t hat p icture b ack u p t here? N o. N o. There you go. I live in the house to the right. Been there for years and years. Let's start off with the property line. See that stump is sitting on the property line. There is no room over there for a driveway. I was told she was going to put a driveway in there. Well, let me be honest here. That's a little two-bedroom house and both bedrooms are right there. Why would Iwant adriveway -- I could spit that far to my bedroom. Now why would I want that? I'm totally against this. I mean I have been there for years and years. This other day care unit, they didn't say it the way I'll tell you. It's been a nightmare. The noise and traffic and the near misses with kids, I mean it's an every day thing. It's been a nightmare. This is the wrong place for a day care center. Let's get real. If they -- say they don't want to put that driveway in there, if you look at where the property line is, you see it can't be done. There is a fence there that doesn't show very good. There is just not that much room in there and put a driveway back there by my bedroom windows? Let's get real here. If they put a -- if you put parking on that side, that fence will have to go over here for a place for kids -- for the kids to play. That's how many kids at my bedroom window? We have been dealing with this for two years and iYs a 150 feet away, this other childcare center. Don't tell me the kids aren't going to scream and holler I have raised five kids. You are not going -- you got two places in front. This is a real, gentleman. You got two places to park. Realistically, look at the last two years. They had almost a dozen, sometimes, across the street. You might as well go to Wal-Mart, because you're not going to find you a parking place, the street is full of kids. Then you got school buses and you got everything going here. That road is dangerous. Right now with the children, without this day care center, it's dangerous. That's a growing neighborhood. I've watched all these kids grow up, there are a lot of them, and there is a lot of traffic. There are a lot of stupid people on that road. We get out there in the evening and have to holler, slow down before you kill a kid, and we want another day care center in there? No. No. Just wouldn't be right. Centers: Did you get a letter? Letz: No, I did not. I was told by a neighbor. I'm a disabled veteran. I stay in my house, I mind my own business, and I spend more time at the Veteran's Hospital than I do at home. I can tell you this, if there is a day care center, Ican't -- I can't live there. I'm not going to last much longer and that's the way it is. I need to die in peace. That's straight up. I am concerned about these children. It's very dangerous right now, even though t hey s but t hat o ne down. I is j ust not i n t he n eighborhood, folks. I is n of t he place for a day care center. Look at it. Centers: Do you know why the other one shut down, Mr. Letz? Letz: Actually, I do, but I wouldn't say it here. I can't -- yes, I do Centers: Well, say, it nicely. Letz: The house was dysfunctional. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting October 17, 2002 Page 29 of 76 Centers: The bedrooms were in the wrong place or the stove didn't work or what? Letz: A dysfunctional house. Centers: The house was dysfunctional. Okay. Letz: Dysfunctional residence. Centers: Thank you. They had to leave because the property wasn't functioning properly? Okay. Letz: No. They just didn't function real well. Centers: Okay. Letz: Don't get me wrong. I get along with everybody. Everybody over there will tell you. Centers: Okay. I don't want you -- Letz: That's the reason. Centers: -- to put your foot in your mouth or anything. That's fine. Letz: I'll tell you right now, if there is a day care, I can't stay there. Centers: Okay. Thank you. Cole: I'm Orville Cole and I live at the other end of the block. Some of these folks -- and my point is one that you haven't brought up. The alley is dust and just the local traffic going through there creates a Hough d ust that I washed my car yesterday and there is dust all over it this morning. The dust from the extra people they are going to have -- and they are going to drive down that alley, there is no way you can block them off. We are going to have to put up with more dust, plus the ones he's talking about, I'll agree with him there. They run up and down that alley. There is dogs that run up and down that alley and from my opinion, the sand back there where the kids will be playing is a direct invitation for all the cats in the neighborhood to go over and use it. You know what I mean they are going to use it for. That's a health hazard and for those few little items I would be against it for that reason. As far as the noise or anything like that from it or the traffic from it, I'm far enough away that it isn't going to bother me. The dust is. My wife is allergic to a lot of different things and it does affect her, too. That's about all I have to say on it. The rest of it is covered pretty much with what needs to be said. Okay. Thank you. Borup: Do we have anyone else? Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting October 17, 2002 Page 30 of 76 R. Day: I'm Ron Day. I live at 404 East Pine. My wife was the first to speak. Centers: So it was your wife that spoke first? R. Day: Yes. Centers: Okay. R. Day: What I'm trying to do is -- and I'm trying to keep my composure, because I'm a little emotional over this. It says on the Public Hearing notice that there are 12 to 24 children supposed to be coming to this facility. You were told that another facility across the street shut down and they were going to take its place and we shouldn't have any problem. The facility that was directly behind me on the .alley certainly wasn't a commercial venture, it was -- I can't remember what they call it, family -- anyway, it was a day care where the family watches a few kids and that's okay in a house. Centers: How long ago did it shut down, if I could interrupt you? R. Day: I think they quit business sometime this month. Centers: Just this month? R. Day: Maybe last month. It's been within the last couple of months. The biggest problem I have, naturally, would be the parking and the traffic that's brought into the community. Well, we all know that anyone could park anywhere on a public street and we are willing to grant that. Either my wife or my kids or I or the people that are on the other side with the facility directly across the alley from us, picked up the balls and the broken toys and the things that came over to our driveway and dinged our car. I finally got tired of going over there and saying, hey, can something be done about the people blocking us out, I have got to go to work. Sure. We will work on it. It's always, well, we were just going to be here a minute. Now we are talking about a facility that's supposed to be a business coming into a residential area. In this residential area they were trying to squeeze in four parking spots, two of which will be employee parking. Now we got two available for folks that are going to use the facility. Unfortunately, if you can get the pictures back up, maybe look at it from my point of view, which is the left-hand side, you're looking at it from my property. It's a small place. I don't understand where you're going to park four cars conveniently where they can't back out even into the alley and there is no other way to back out, either in the alley or the street. When you put two people parking in front of there, two people on the other side of the road using their parking, public parking, it's enough to -- you have to drive, you know, carefully to pass. What I would have liked, as a citizen, is for the staff to go over there and look at that and say, my God, it's a residential area, why are we bringing a business into a residential area and why are we trying to make four places for a person to park, so that we can have a business in the middle of a residential area? I was under the impression Planning and Zoning helps steer things to different areas and there is commercial space available. Given what's happened thus far, somewhere around May that house sold Meridian Planning and zoning Commission Meeting October 17, 2002 Page 3t of 76 and the next thing I saw was a pile of sand in the street, which was moved to the back, which is fine, and then a fence was put up, which was fine, then there is this -- well, what's going on, what's happening over there, what -- my God, we have got a business moving in. How can that be? We are residential. Then we are told, well, it doesn't matter, because once we get all of this done, it's going to be approved, and I'm going, my God, they didn't buy a house next to -- we have done this before. We were the nice guys on the last time and went around and said, sure, bring a business into our residential area. We found that it doesn't work. It just doesn't work so I'm choked up about it. I'm embarrassed I'm standing up here feeling this way, but the truth is, that place is not designed to have 12 kids. We say, okay, let's don't have 12 let's have six kids. I thought that commercial day care centers had to meet some regulations, fire codes, sanitary codes, sick room codes, this code, that code, so I would think somebody come along and say, well, you can't just buy this house and make it into a place for a business. Apparently, I'm finding out not only that it can be done, but right now it's happening in my neighborhood and I'm not really happy about it, because I don't think it's fair. I think business should be moved to the business area where we are zoned for it and the streets are made for it and where folks that live -- and neighbors of mine since 1990 -- actually, '87, because we lived across the street before we moved to where we did, all of sudden of finding out in their retirement years they don't have a place to sit and rest. They have got to deal with a business that moved in on us. We feel invaded, absolutely invaded, because it didn't matter what planning and zoning or what we are designed for, it's just happening. I don't I get a lot of respect when we find out that you guys are doing recommendations and the city can do whatever they damn well feel like it and that scares me. Centers: Well, you're making assumptions and -- that aren't necessarily true. R. Day: Well, I appreciate that -- Centers: You have definitely made your point and -- R. Day: What you're trying to say is go sit down. Centers: No. R. Day: I will. Centers: It's very obvious that you have made your point and, yes, there may be other people that want to speak. That's true. R. Day: Okay. Centers: Thank you. Borup: Thank you. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting October 17, 2002 Page 32 of 76 R. Day: You bet. D. Day: My name is Derek Day. I live at 404 East Pine. My father just spoke. I had a big problem with the former child care facility there from parking. There was quite a few times I would have to back out from my lawn and drive through my yard just so I could go to school in the morning. That was -- it caused me a heartache from being tardy for school, almost having to do Saturday school and take time from activities that I would do on the weekend and stuff, just because we had the child care facility right next to me. Another thing I have a big problem with is when I was a little kid, I went over with the people that lived in that house and I would play over there and they would come over to my house and we'd play and things like that. When I was a little kid about like half my size that was not enough room for us to play in, period. How are they going to squeeze 20 kids into an area that big to play? They just can't do it. Inside there was barely enough room for the kid's bed to be inside the bedroom and have room for some of his toys and stuff like that in there. How are you going to squeeze 20 kids into this small of a residence, plus that on the outside? Is the kid's safety not being seen here? If they are going to put parking in the front yard, are the kids going to have to walk through a parking lot to get to their day care? Than just doesn't make sense to me and that -- even though doing this construction, I come home from school and there is a big dump truck and a bobcat tractor sitting in my parking spot where I have to go. I had to go around and park in front of my house just so I could go home from school, instead of going where I normally go. I just have a big problem with this. I'm lucky, because if this goes in, nine months I'm leaving for active duty with the Coast Guard. I'm not going to have to deal with it, but for that nine months that I'm still here, I'm going to have a lot of heartache just from sitting in my room and hearing some -- listening to little kids scream and holler and stuff like that. I'm trying to do my work for school and finish up and do stuff like that. That's all I have to say. Borup: Thank you. Anyone else? Yes. Joni, if you'd like to make any final comments and then we will -- West: I would like to comment on some of the things that they said. The whole house is entirely set up just for kids. When he said there is not enough room, every square inch of it is made into play area. We don't live there, so it's not like a normal person's home where you have bedrooms and your furniture and things like that that they won't be able to use. Every square inch of that house is strictly for the kids, every bit of it's play area, toys, you know, things that are just constructed for them. There is plenty of room for everyone to play. There is areas for the napping, you know, all the things that are necessary for them. They don't have the restrictions like the other lady had in her house across the street. That was her home, so they had a small area that they all maybe had to stay in and this one they get the entire house, every bit is strictly for their use and so they are doing a lot there than normal. The parking -- the only time we ever parked across the street was when other people parked in front of our house, because we didn't have anywhere to park. We would have to move up or over or whatever and we did have the bobcat parked in front of theirs one day when we were trying to the the driveway, but it was only one day. We had the sand and the sand was brought and we Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting October 17, 2002 Page 33 of 76 had it moved the exact same day, you know, we didn't leave it out there on the street or anything. We have tried really hard to keep it a neighborhood, because we didn't want to come in and be a business right off the bat. You know, I'd like to comment on their comments about how it's such a residential area, but if you go one street over, there is businesses up and down the next street if you go a block -- two blocks down, there is Lumberman's Building Center, there is, you know, Valley -- there are numerous businesses in that area. When -- you know, we are not the only business that's there. There is one right around the corner, there is a lady that has that beautician -- you know, beauty salon. There are craft stores all around us. There are a lot of businesses in there. We are not the only business that would be going in there, so that's what we -- we wanted to try to keep the front of it looking as normal as possible. I know that they said we could put up a sign that's like, you know, four by six or whatever. I didn't want to do that, because I didn't want the neighbors to have to look at that. I just thought let's just try to keep it looking as, you know, normal as possible, so we can fit into the neighborhood, so we really, really are trying to be cooperative to the neighbors and fit in. I know there are a lot of residences -- I mean a lot of commercial things in that area, so I know we wouldn't be the only one that's in there. Okay? Centers: Mrs. West, when did you close on the purchase of the property? West: I'm guessing it was probably the end of May. Centers: O kay s o t he g entleman was fairly correct. Y ou m entioned t hat you hadn't done any work -- West: On the inside. Centers: Yes. You said you just painted you put some wainscoting. West: There was nothing else we did. The bathroom probably should be done. Centers: So when you bought it, it was like that? West: Yes. We could get a realtor to tell you, but that's -- Centers: Okay. Are the walls intact, the interior walls? West: They did a very nice job. Centers: But everything is just open? Is it atwo-bedroom home? West: No. There is definitely -- there are two bedrooms, one bathroom, a long living room, and a kitchen. Centers: Okay. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting October 17, 2002 Page 34 of 76 West: So it's -- Centers: But you purchased- it with the sole intention of -- you signed a Purchase Agreement, probably, the first part of May? West: Right. Centers: With the sole intention of using it for a day. West: Yes. Centers: One hundred percent? West: Well, no. We own three -- well, we have two other rentals and our home and why buy it and thought, okay, if it doesn't work, we can turn it into a rental. Centers: When did you contact the city regarding a day care? West: Before we purchased it, because we had tried to buy property in a different subdivision and actually put down money, so we talked to them before we ever purchased this property. Centers: And they told you that the area would allow for it under a Conditional Use Permit? West: Yes. Centers: Right and that's about it? West: Yes. Centers: Okay. Thank you. Borup: Any other final comments? West: No. Borup: Thank you. Commissioners, how would we like to proceed? Centers: Well -- Zaremba: Are we going to have discussion without closing the Public Hearing? Borup: Well, are we going to continue it or -- Centers: No. I'd like to close the Public Hearing. I will move. Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting October 17, 2002 Page 35 of 76 Zaremba: Second. Borup: Motion and second to close the Public Hearing. Any discussion? All in favor? MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Centers: And, you know, the staff -- excuse me, Mr. Chairman. Borup: Go ahead, Commissioner Centers. Centers: The staff always has this comment -- and I'd like. to read it to the audience, that the proposed use, if it complies with all conditions of the approval imposed, would not adversely affect other property in the vicinity. Then they say -- and they comment to us: Commission and Council should rely on public testimony to determine if the development will adversely affect the other property in the immediate vicinity. Staff has received written objections to this proposal --and then I will add we had other objections -- I count four, really, four property owners. Please consider the written testimony, as well as oral testimony, when making the finding. I guess you know where I'm leading, because that's my opinion. I agree with the staff. I appreciate the staff always reminding us of that, that we need to listen to the neighbors, if there is good reason to listen. Zaremba: Well, I would add that that is part of the process. This is a residential neighborhood, R-15. The Planning and Zoning staff interest in this is to make sure that all legal requirements are met and that's why this is required to have the Conditional Use Permit if it's going to be allowed in a residential zone. That is a legal requirement that a person can apply for a Conditional Use Permit. Part of that process is this hearing and in determining whether there will be the Conditional Use issued or not, public testimony of the neighbors, who have had experience with a similar thing right next to them, is very important. This is still an R-15 zone, whether the CUP is apprdved or not. What I'm hearing from the neighbors is this is not theoretical, you have already had one near you, you have had the experience, you know what it's like, and I agree with you, this appears to be a small building for having very many kids in it. It is still useful as a residence, so it does not lose its primary -- what it was when you bought it and what it still is, is still available as a use. Just as an opinion, I'm inclined to deny this, mostly on the testimony of the neighbors and my own initial inclination when I read through this to see that it's going to be very difficult to squeeze all the requirements onto this little piece of property. I'm through. Centers: Yes and I --just to continue that, I think it would be unfair to'the applicant to ask them to come back and redo their drawings and redo this and redo that, if 30 days from now we feel the same way after additional testimony. I agree with Commissioner Zaremba, I'm inclined to deny it with the neighbors' testimony. Borup: Any other comments? Do we have a motion? Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting October 17, 2002 Page 36 of 76 Centers: Yes. Mr. Chairman, I would recommend that we recommend denial to the City Council regarding Item 6, CUP 02-029, which was a request for a Conditional Use Permit for a childcare facilitX for 12 to 24 children in an R-15 zone for Joni R. West by Joni R. West, at 923 East 4f Street. Zaremba: Second. Borup: Motion and second. Any discussion? All in favor? Any opposed? MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Zaremba: All right. That does conclude that item. Centers: I think the applicant should be aware that they could appeal this to the City Council. Borup: Item Number 7 is a public -- Zaremba: Let me just say, those of you that did not get the notice, which apparently was sent, we apologize for that. When this goes before the City Council there will be another hearing and hopefully you will get the notice. Item 7. Public Hearing: AUP 02-007 Request for an Accessory Use Permit for a Family Daycare in an R-4 zone for Sherrie Martin by Sherrie Martin, 2215 East MacKay Court. Borup: Item Number 7 is a Public Hearing, AUP 02-007, request for an Accessory Use Permit for a family day care in an R-4 zone by Sherrie Martin. Is Sherrie Martin here or her representative? Tessman: I'm here against it. Borup: Okay. I assume we proceed ahead, David? I'd like to open that Public Hearing and start with the staff report. McKinnon: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission. This is the staff report for an Accessory Use Permit for a family day care, that's up to five children, in addition to their own children, in an R-4 zone for Sherrie Martin and as we just established she's not here tonight. The property is bolded on the property map. You can get a picture of what the house looks like. The reason this is in front of you tonight is because we did receive an objection. Typically, an Accessory Use Permit can be allowed, unless there is an objection within the time period specifically allowed by the City Code. We did received objections -- multiple objections to this and that's why it's in front of you tonight. There are not specific findings that can be made for achildcare -- or afamily childcare home. However, there are some standards, which are included in the application for you tonight. As far as the letters of objection go, it sounds like there